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America’s Cultural Revolution- the Obsession with Self Esteem
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Mad World

An increasingly common cliché these days is that America is mired in the midst of its own Cultural Revolution. One of the most fascinatingly telling incidents to this effect occurred in a library at the University of Washington around January 2017, shortly after Trump had delivered his inauguration speech.[1]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/27/library-...ation/ Various protestors stormed what was supposed to be a quiet place of study, loudly chanting over and over again, “Who’s got the power? We’ve got the power.”

What happened next has become the stuff of internet legend. As the Social Justice Jihadis became increasingly more disruptive, they were suddenly confronted by a bespectacled gentleman most likely of Chinese or Korean descent, who authoritatively declared, “Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library.” A somewhat uncomfortable silence ensued and thus one of the clearest dispensations of 21st century Confucian wisdom came to pass. Although the incident was undoubtedly a source of amusement to many, to me the surreal confrontation highlighted not only just how deeply rotten modern day American culture had become, but also the clear extent to which East Asian and non-East Asian cultural values had diverged in the 21st century.

A recent article by Wesley Yang derided the fact that in contemporary American society “therapeutic concepts of harm have metastasized to encompass what we all once understood to be the unavoidable vicissitudes of daily life.”[2]http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/2...ssions His discussion focused on the increasing sensitivity of millennials, in particular highlighting the fault line separating minorities from whites. In my opinion, equating the problem with the political left misses the heart of the matter entirely. Left-wing political correctness is merely a symptom of the more insidious underlying disease, which as Amy Chua alluded to in her now infamous essay Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior, is the American obsession with self-esteem.[3]http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/hwaters-/psy327/ar...rs.pdf In its current form this obsession has become rather unproductive and self-defeating and it certainly transcends political and ideological boundaries.

Dunning-Kruger and the East Asian Exception

That Americans tend to seek positive feelings of self-worth is a well-known fact that extends beyond Tiger Mother style anecdotes. For instance, the famous Dunning-Kruger effect typically shows that less competent individuals have a tendency to overrate their actual ability more so relative to more competent individuals. East Asians though are a clear exception to the Dunning-Kruger phenomenon as observed.

Regardless of how pervasive the phenomenon is, it is clear from Dunning’s and others’ work that many Americans, at least sometimes and under some conditions, have a tendency to inflate their worth. It is interesting, therefore, to see the phenomenon’s mirror opposite in another culture. In research comparing North American and East Asian self-assessments, Heine of the University of British Columbia finds that East Asians tend to underestimate their abilities, with an aim toward improving the self and getting along with others.

There are cultural, social and individual motives behind these tendencies, Heine and colleagues observe in a paper in the October 1999 Psychological Review (Vol. 106, No. 4). “As Western society becomes more individualistic, a successful life has come to be equated with having high self-esteem,” Heine says. “Inflating one’s sense of self creates positive emotions and feelings of self-efficacy, but the downside is that people don’t really like self-enhancers very much.”

Conversely, East Asians’ self-improving or self-critical stance helps them maintain their “face,” or reputation, and as a result, their interpersonal network. But the cost is they don’t feel as good about themselves, he says. Because people in these cultures have different motivations, they make very different choices, Heine adds. If Americans perceive they’re not doing well at something, they’ll look for something else to do instead. “If you’re bad at volleyball, well fine, you won’t play volleyball,” as Heine puts it. East Asians, though, view a poor performance as an invitation to try harder.”[4]http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb03/overestimate.aspx

The systematic tendency of East Asians to underestimate their own abilities and engage in self-criticism may indeed be part of a constellation of unique cultural traits. For instance, this kind of cultural grit also seems to align closely with observations made by others that observed East Asian IQ generally tends to have little correlation with SES, perhaps due to robustness against environmental deprivation arising from centuries of Malthusian selection.[5]http://www.unz.com/runz/the-east-asian-exception-to...ences/ This resilience against negative environmental influences also probably explains why by and large the parasitic memes of left-wing post-modernist insanity which have seemingly hijacked the minds of numerous black, white, and Hispanic Americans alike are absent amongst people of East Asian descent.

Given that non-East Asians are especially vulnerable to the dangers of bad influences, it might not be unreasonable to assume that whites suffer from the negative consequences of multiculturalism far more than East Asians might under similar circumstances. For instance, during the 2011 London Riots historian David Starkey infamously got himself into trouble for suggesting that part of the reason for the chaos in the UK was that “the whites had become black.”[6]https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/aug/13/david-sta...-black Somewhat amusingly, Thomas Sowell has long argued that the self-destructive attitudes of blacks in the antebellum South were largely the result of their absorbing the habits and values of white Southern crackers who had immigrated from the “northern borderlands of England- for centuries a no man’s land between Scotland and England- as well as from the Scottish highlands and from Ulster County, Ireland” before the Anglicization of those places had advanced very far by the 19th century.[7]Sowell, T. (2006). Black Rednecks and White Liberals. 3-5. If one were to take Sowell’s thesis seriously, the fact that contemporary lower-class whites around the world are increasingly absorbing the self-destructive values of blacks surely must be considered karmic justice!

East Asian Sufferance

In part because of their own cultural resilience, East Asians are often marginalized in American society and rendered invisible. For instance, it’s long been known that Asian Americans are discriminated against in the context of elite college admissions, bearing the brunt of the sacrifice required to create affirmative action spots for blacks and Hispanics in this country. Yet discussions of affirmative action in the mainstream media oftentimes render Asian Americans entirely invisible, obliviously treating the matter as though it were white conservatives on the one hand versus blacks and Hispanics on the other, the issue of contention being the discrimination against whites in favor of minorities in this country.

If you don’t believe me, just look at when the Department of Justice recently decided to reexamine a prior 2015 federal complaint levied against Harvard by 64 Asian American groups. Numerous mainstream organizations such as the New York Times initially referred to the investigation as one by the Trump administration into possible discrimination by colleges against white applicants.[8]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/us/politics/trump...s.html Even when the correct reporting of the facts began to surface later on, we were still subjected to the typical blathering accusing the Trump administration of being disingenuous by feigning interest in the well-being of Asian Americans and proclaiming that Asians shouldn’t allow themselves to be used as tools by white conservatives in advancing their right-wing agenda.[9]https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/8/4/16094648/a...erican The fact that 64 different Asian American groups had filed a complaint against Harvard seemingly eluded everyone. One generally got the impression that Asian Americans were a group deprived of any real agency, instead being merely hapless pawns in the Game of Thrones pitting whites on the one hand against blacks and Hispanics on the other.

Another insidious example of the tendency to marginalize Asian Americans has been the rather curious phenomenon as of late of simply pretending that they aren’t even Asian at all. For instance, we constantly hear the mainstream media bemoaning the fact that Silicon Valley lacks diversity and is too white and male.[10]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspirac...19facd Yet this conveniently ignores the fact that whites are actually underrepresented overall at many of the Bay Area’s most elite firms relative to their percentage amongst the general population. On the other hand, Asian Americans generally tend to be overrepresented, a fact which I alluded to in my previous article.[11]https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/03/28/...26318/

Asian Americans are vastly overrepresented in tech roles at Uber, while whites are underrepresented along with blacks and Hispanics.
Asian Americans are vastly overrepresented in tech roles at Uber, while whites are underrepresented along with blacks and Hispanics.[11]https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/03/28/...26318/

Since by any reasonable definition of the terms Asian, minority, or people of color, Asian Americans surely qualify as being all three, the fact that somehow in our current national lexicon they qualify as none of those categories truly boggles the mind. Indeed, despite suggestions by scholars such as Richard Nesbitt that compared to East Asians, Westerners have a tendency towards more logical as opposed to holistic thinking and are thus less willing to tolerate contradiction, the blatant disregard for the first Aristotelian law of thought, namely the principle of identity that Asian = Asian, seems to mirror more the dialectical principal of change attributed to the belief systems of East Asians, which asserts that “reality is a process that is not static but dynamic and changeable. A thing need not be identical with itself at all because of the fluid nature of reality.”[12]https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/nisbett/wp-content/uploa...ht.pdf

The Erosion of Meritocracy

The obsession with self-esteem and the fundamental lack of what might be described as a self-critical orientation is hardly the sole province of those on the left. Indeed, the well-established phenomenon of Asian bashing often seems to transcend many of the ideological fault lines otherwise dividing white Americans in this country.

One of the more disappointing revelations in my opinion has been the extraordinary ambivalence of many right-wing whites towards clear anti-Asian discrimination in this country. On various alt-right blogs where themes such as race realism and affirmative action are often discussed, when it comes to the issue of Asian Americans and meritocracy, many right-wing whites seemingly abandon their principles whole. Thus, while these individuals formerly denounced discrimination against whites in favor of blacks and Hispanics, we all of a sudden hear that Asian American academic success is merely the result of cheating and gaming the system. Some also suggest that colleges should take into consideration non-academic factors such as maintaining a certain campus culture or favoring those who might be more likely to donate to the school as alumni.

The fluidity with which white Americans commit to the principle of meritocracy certainly transcends mere personal anecdote. For instance, University of Miami assistant professor of sociology Frank L. Samson discovered that “in a survey of white California adults, they generally favor admissions policies that place a high priority on high school grade-point averages and standardized test scores. But when these white people are focused on the success of Asian-American students, their views change.” He describes the methodology where “the white adults in the survey were also divided into two groups. Half were simply asked to assign the importance they thought various criteria should have in the admissions system of the University of California. The other half received a different prompt, one that noted that Asian Americans make up more than twice as many undergraduates proportionally in the UC system as they do in the population of the state. When informed of that fact, the white adults favor a reduced role for grade and test scores in admissions — apparently based on high achievement levels by Asian-American applicants. When asked about leadership as an admissions criterion, white ranking of the measure went up in importance when respondents were informed of the Asian success in University of California admissions. Professor Samson concludes that “the results here suggest that the importance of meritocratic criteria for whites varies depending upon certain circumstances. To wit, white Californians do not hold a principled commitment to a fixed standard of merit.”[13]https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/08/13/white...ricans

These sorts of results are indeed rather troubling, but in light of other empirical realities such as Dunning-Kruger, perhaps shouldn’t be entirely surprising. Alas, one of the more curious observations has been the eerie extent to which many of the memes and complaints voiced by right-wing whites against those of East Asian descent mirror the numerous ways in which blacks and Hispanics have historically complained about whites.

For instance, a recent Atlantic article referenced a study done on black, Hispanic and white parents in NYC public schools in determining their attitudes towards gifted and talented programs. The article pointed out that black and Hispanic parents were more interested in making sure their child had access to a diverse school than they were in gaming the system in order to gain admissions into gifted and talented programs. Furthermore, the article noted that, “while the black and Hispanic parents Roda interviewed had their children tested for gifted, none reported paying for tutors or otherwise preparing children for the test. For them, having to practice for the test meant your child wasn’t really gifted.”[14]https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/1...44182/ If this sounds almost identical to what numerous right-wing whites have been arguing ad-nauseum about East Asians, you’re almost certainly not alone in feeling this way. Personally, I did a double take just to make sure I wasn’t reading the comments section of a white nationalist blog.

The Efficacy of Test Prep and Shifting Asian American Demographics

I wanted to briefly touch upon the issue of test prep, specifically focusing on the SAT. Although the SAT has undergone various sorts of changes over the past couple of decades, most recently in 2016, historically the test has been considered to be fairly g-loaded and relatively non-amenable to extensive prep, thus contradicting many of the assertions we otherwise hear. Back in 2003, Frey and Detterman observed a correlation of about 0.82 between SAT scores and g based on analysis of historical data.[15]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#IQ_studies Furthermore, studies have generally tended to cast doubt on the efficacy of commercial test prep in terms of significantly boosting SAT scores on average.

Data from the Bell Curve suggests rapidly diminishing returns to prep on the SAT, although the math section does appear to be more amenable to improvement than the verbal.
Data from the Bell Curve[17]Murray, C & Hernstein, R. J. (1996). The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life. 400. suggests rapidly diminishing returns to prep on the SAT, although the math section does appear to be more amenable to improvement than the verbal.

For instance, after accounting for potential self-selection biases by randomly assigning students to control and treatment groups, “the effect of commercial test preparation has appeared relatively small. A comprehensive 1999 study by Don Powers and Don Rock published in the Journal of Educational Measurement estimated a coaching effect on the math section somewhere between 13 and 18 points, and an effect on the verbal section between 6 and 12 points. Powers and Rock concluded that the combined effect of coaching on the SAT I is between 21 and 34 points. Similarly, extensive metanalyses conducted by Betsy Jane Becker in 1990 and by Nan Laird in 1983 found that the typical effect of commercial preparatory courses on the SAT was in the range of 9-25 points on the verbal section, and 15-25 points on the math section.”[16]http://nepc.colorado.edu/files/Briggs_Theeffectofad...on.pdf The Bell Curve also cited earlier data in showing that there were rapidly diminishing returns to extensive prep for both the SAT-M and SAT-V, although similar to the later studies the math section did appear to be more amenable to improvement than the verbal.[17]Murray, C & Hernstein, R. J. (1996). The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life. 400.

One point of contention raised in certain circles has been the rapid rise of Asian American SAT scores in the past 10-15 years. Some took this to be suggestive of the fact that Asian Americans, bolstered by the rise of Tiger Mothers, had somehow found a way to crack the system and thus had ruined everything for everyone else.

Data[18]https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/20...-elite shows that Asian Americans have made rapid gains over the past 10 years on the SAT relative to other ethnic groups. Nonetheless, Asian American scores reflect a clear math/verbal split.

Although on the one hand Asian American SAT scores in 2015 reflected the same underlying math/verbal split as has been indicated by the psychometric literature for decades, on the other hand Asian American scores had increased by 54 points total between 2006 to 2015, while scores for every other ethnic group had dropped slightly. In particular, the delta between whites and Asians on average had increased by 60 points over this time period.[18]https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/20...-elite

Is this necessarily prima facie evidence that something is amiss with Asian American scores? I’m not convinced. Although my purpose here is hardly to get to the bottom of the matter, allow me to suggest that the increase in Asian American SAT scores over the past decade could simply have been a reflection of the shifting demographics of recent Asian American high school cohorts. As Pew numbers show, the Asian American population has grown rapidly from around 11.8 million in 2000 to around 20.5 million in 2015, an increase of almost 73%.[19]http://www.pewresearch.org/topics/asian-americans/ Surely much of this increase has been due to self-selected immigration. By contrast, the non-Hispanic white population grew from around 194 million to 198 million over the same time period, an increase of only about 2%.

It’s also well known that the aggregate Asian American category lumps together various groups such as East Asians, South Asians, Southeast Asians, and Pacific Islanders. Presumably the former two groups generally tend to outperform the latter two academically. One piece of evidence for this, apart from adhering to the assumptions underlying HBD, lies in the results of the California Achievement Test. Data from the blog humanvarieties.org shows that Chinese and Korean Americans outperformed Cambodian and Laotian Americans by about 1 SD over the years 2003-2008 on the CAT.[20]https://humanvarieties.org/2014/06/25/u-s-ethnicrace...lysis/

Data from the blog humanvarieties.org showing performance of Asian ethnic groups on the CAT over a period of 5 years. Scores are expressed in terms of standard deviations relative to the white score, with a negative D value indicating that the group scored higher than the reference white population.
Data from the blog humanvarieties.org[20]https://humanvarieties.org/2014/06/25/u-s-ethnicrace...lysis/ showing performance of Asian ethnic groups on the CAT over a period of 5 years. Scores are expressed in terms of standard deviations relative to the white score, with a negative D value indicating that the group scored higher than the reference white population.

These differences likely carry over to the SAT as well. In fact, one of the most consistent features of Asian American SAT scores over recent years has been the higher SD across all sections compared to that of other ethnic groups. While the SD for white Americans has typically been around 100-105 on each section, the corresponding SD for Asian Americans has usually been around 120-125. This seems to suggest that Asian American scores are more bimodal and reflect perhaps the differential performances of the disparate underlying ethnic groups.[21]https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalService...15.pdf

Data from the College Board showing SAT scores by race for the year 2015. Asian American SAT scores have typically had a SD 20% or so higher than that of white Americans, most likely a reflection of the multi-racial nature of the aggregate Asian category.
Data from the College Board[21]https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalService...15.pdf showing SAT scores by race for the year 2015. Asian American SAT scores have typically had a SD 20% or so higher than that of white Americans, most likely a reflection of the multi-racial nature of the aggregate Asian category.

My hypothesis is that the Asian American SAT pool has gotten more elite over the past 10-15 years, in addition to shifting a higher composition of Chinese and Indians percentage wise. These two groups accounted for almost 48% of the 73% increase in the Asian American population from 2000 to 2015. Indian Americans went from being about 16% of all Asian Americans in 2000 to about 19.4% in 2015, while Chinese Americans were about 24% in both time periods. Assuming differential age distributions among the various Asian ethnicities, it’s certainly possible that the relevant Asian American high school cohort and by extension the Asian American SAT test taking pool has become even more Chinese and Indian today compared to what it was at the start of the century.

Pew data shows that the Asian American population has risen by 73% from 2000 to 2015. Over 48% of this increase came from Chinese and Indian Americans, traditionally two of the highest performing Asian ethnicities in America.
Pew data[19]http://www.pewresearch.org/topics/asian-americans/ shows that the Asian American population has risen by 73% from 2000 to 2015. Over 48% of this increase came from Chinese and Indian Americans, traditionally two of the highest performing Asian ethnicities in America.

Furthermore, recent Asian American high school cohorts themselves may have become more elite due to immigration trends, a speculation which certainly has ground-level anecdotal support. For instance, a now infamous 2005 Wall Street article detailing the phenomenon of white flight from Monta Vista High in Cupertino and nearby Lynbrook High in San Jose attributed part of the demographic and cultural changes sweeping the two schools to the arrival of recent Asian immigrants.[22]http://pgbovine.net/NewWhiteFlight.pdf Similarly, a New York Times article described how a recent influx of Chinese, Indian, and Korean immigrants to the elite West Windsor-Plainsboro Regional School District in New Jersey had caused tensions to surface between Asian and white parents there over the competitive focus of these schools. In particular, Asian Americans went from being around 44% of the school district in 2007 to over 65% by 2015.[23]https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/26/nyregion/reforms-...t.html Numerous other examples abound.

That Asian American SAT scores have been rising along with the increasing Asian presence at many of America’s elite STEM oriented high schools suggests that the latter may in part explain the former, although admittedly it’s hardly conclusive causal evidence. At any rate, those who suggest that Asian American SAT scores have somehow become compromised should surely at a minimum offer up more than mere repeated assertion.

Conclusion

The fact that America is currently mired in the midst of a modern day Cultural Revolution is surely undeniable, its effects far reaching and pernicious. Many people attribute the problem to the increasing mental fragility of our political left, and the issue is often framed along the lines of the white and non-white divide. I argued that this a fatally flawed conception. Right-wing whites, ostensibly stalwarts against such burgeoning insanity, often exhibit the same fragility as do Social Justice Jihadis and trot out at least some of the same memes. This is a cultural deficit that transcends political and ideological boundaries.

Self-esteem divorced from actual achievement is hardly a virtue. When it corrupts the capacity to seek fault with oneself first rather than reflexively find it in others, it becomes an absolute vice. Societies are at their most productive when their modus operandi is both fair and transparent. If the desire for feel-good self-esteem erodes our fundamental sense of fair play, what results in a highly multi-ethnic society such as America is the decline of meritocracy and a reversion to the most atavistic forms of tribal conflict. The increasingly toxic nature of American politics surely serves as a clear testament to this fact. Black, Hispanic, and white Americans are increasingly tearing each other apart in the public domain and by extension are eroding the very fabric of American society.

Take for the instance the tech industry, where I’ve worked for the past few years, albeit as a non-engineer. I’ve had to attend mandatory diversity training sessions, where I was taught about how to interrupt my unconscious biases and check my privilege. I also learned about how teams inevitably function better if they’re not composed entirely of white males. I suppose given the huge degree of overrepresentation of Chinese and Indian males among many of Silicon Valley’s leading tech companies, that statement seemed to me to be rather obvious. Most likely though, this wasn’t what the person leading the diversity training had in mind. Contrast all of that to the recent observations of Michael Moritz of Sequoia Capital, who pointed out the following differences between American and Chinese tech culture.

“In California, the blogosphere has been full of chatter about the inequity of life. Some of this, especially for women, is true and for certain individuals their day of reckoning has been long overdue. But many of the soul-sapping discussions seem like unwarranted distractions. In recent months, there have been complaints about the political sensibilities of speakers invited to address a corporate audience; debates over the appropriate length of paternity leave or work-life balances; and grumbling about the need for a space for musical jam sessions. These seem like the concerns of a society that is becoming unhinged.

These topics are absent in China’s technology companies, where the pace of work is furious. Here, top managers show up for work at about 8am and frequently don’t leave until 10pm. Most of them will do this six days a week — and there are plenty of examples of people who do this for seven. Engineers have slightly different habits: they will appear about 10am and leave at midnight. Beyond the week-long breaks for Chinese New Year and the October national holiday, most will just steal an additional handful of vacation days. Some technology companies also provide a rental subsidy to employees who choose to live close to corporate HQ.”[24]https://www.ft.com/content/42daca9e-facc-11e7-9bfc-0...a03425

Since Americans have become increasingly preoccupied with the rise of China and the competitive threat that it poses, it might behoove us to heed the words of someone like Mr. Moritz. Alas, the initial flurry of reactions to the Financial Times piece was almost entirely negative. I hold out hope though that attitudes can perhaps change over time in this country. Although many people generally tend to focus on the economic or scientific aspects of China’s rise, one of the more under-appreciated aspects in my opinion is the ability for China to project its Confucian ethos and to serve as a paragon for others around the globe. One interesting example of this has been the trend in the UK recently of adopting the so-called mastery approach of mathematics teaching typically utilized in China and other East Asian countries[25]http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-mastery-appr...2016-7. In light of the superior performance of East Asian nations on international assessments of mathematics such as PISA and TIMSS, the UK has both sent teachers to and had teachers come from China in the hopes of learning pedagogical techniques for boosting the math scores of British students as well. These are the kinds of productive cultural exchanges that I hope can continue in the future.

The Talk

America has simultaneously been blessed and cursed by its high degree of racial diversity. As toxic self-esteem has increasingly eroded race relations in this country, along with our belief in meritocracy, we all need to take a moment to reflect on our increasingly destructive cultural mores. One group in particular, in my opinion, stands out as a clear exception to the madness we currently find ourselves in. The cultural grit epitomized by those of East Asian descent seems to me to be the only way forward for us as Americans. The alternative is to resign ourselves to the unprincipled free-for-all that this country seems to be devolving more and more into with each passing day, with all of its attendant mean-spirited hostilities and unbridled out-group bashing. Alas, I hold out hope that this isn’t to be our inevitable fate.

Since the struggles of life have long prompted soul-searching and led parents of all sorts to have candid heart to heart talks with their children, I’m also led to recall the various bits of wisdom that my own mother imparted to me when I young. Similar to the talk that many black mothers today have with their sons or the talk that John Derbyshire has had with his own children as well[26]http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/the-talk-nonblack-version/, there is also an East Asian version of the talk as embodied by what my mother often told me growing up. I think this could serve as sound advice for all Americans irrespective of gender, race, or creed.

儿子, 一个男子要能吃苦.

References

[1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/27/library-student-shuts-protesters-becomes-viral-sensation/

[2] http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/258528/microagressions

[3] http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/hwaters-/psy327/articles/Chinese%20mothers.pdf

[4] http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb03/overestimate.aspx

[5] http://www.unz.com/runz/the-east-asian-exception-to-socio-economic-iq-influences/

[6] https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/aug/13/david-starkey-claims-whites-black

[7] Sowell, T. (2006). Black Rednecks and White Liberals. 3-5.

[8] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/us/politics/trump-affirmative-action-universities.html

[9] https://www.vox.com/first-person/2017/8/4/16094648/affirmative-action-trump-sessions-asian-american

[10] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/05/29/how-the-asians-became-white/?utm_term=.0249c219facd

[11] https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/03/28/uber-diversity-reports-shows-familiar-tech-deficiencies/99726318/

[12] https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/nisbett/wp-content/uploads/sites/370/2016/03/cultureThought.pdf

[13] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/08/13/white-definitions-merit-and-admissions-change-when-they-think-about-asian-americans

[14] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/10/do-parents-views-on-gifted-education-vary-by-ethnicity/544182/

[15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#IQ_studies

[16] http://nepc.colorado.edu/files/Briggs_Theeffectofadmissionstestpreparation.pdf

[17] Murray, C & Hernstein, R. J. (1996). The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life. 400.

[18] https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/08/07/look-data-and-arguments-about-asian-americans-and-admissions-elite

[19] http://www.pewresearch.org/topics/asian-americans/

[20] https://humanvarieties.org/2014/06/25/u-s-ethnicrace-differences-in-aptitude-by-generation-an-exploratory-meta-analysis/

[21] https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/sat/total-group-2015.pdf

[22] http://pgbovine.net/NewWhiteFlight.pdf

[23] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/26/nyregion/reforms-to-ease-students-stress-divide-a-new-jersey-school-district.html

[24] https://www.ft.com/content/42daca9e-facc-11e7-9bfc-052cbba03425

[25] http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-mastery-approach-for-math-2016-7

[26] http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/the-talk-nonblack-version/

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Asian Americans, IQ, Political Correctness 
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  1. Duncan says:

    America has never been blessed by its racial diversity.
    Hey, how many non-Chinese does China take in a year? How about Japan?
    To the author I wish good luck in getting a country as diverse as America has become to embrace anything other than mindless consumerism.

    • Agree: Anonym
  2. jim jones says:

    Chinese students say ” What is democracy?”

  3. Jason Liu says:

    男子汉要能吃苦

    Careful, that counts as toxic masculinity in the west. Real men embrace their emotions and cry when met with any 苦. Stoicism is for neanderthals!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  4. anon[694] • Disclaimer says:

    Diversity is not a strength, it is a weakness.

    America would be a much stronger country today if it were a 200 million cohesive WASP society rather than a 320 million diverse basketcase.

    • Replies: @Anon
  5. nebulafox says:

    Correct. Absolutely correct.

    It’s ironic I’m reading this article now, given how I’ve been thinking about how to turn around my own life. That’s necessitated some thinking about a lot of things, among them how I’ve ended up here in the first place, not least on all the people or cultural influences who meant well but ended up doing more harm than good.

    I don’t want to get too personal or off on too much of a tangent here, because I have promised to leave this website. But the constant focus on self-esteem parroted by parents, advisers, teachers, shrinks, doctors, whatever when I was failing in the most fundamental things in life, due to my own failures and flaws-I knew on some deep, unstated level it was all BS. I *shouldn’t* have been proud of myself, least of all for some vague, intrinsic property of being human. I should *not* have had self-esteem. But I didn’t have the courage or character or just plain backbone to contradict it all, and I judge that harshly, in retrospect. So, it took me much longer than it should have to realize that these feelings and the impulse to criticize myself, far from being some manifestation of depression, were good things. It was a sign I needed to change, and that I wanted to change. It was only when I began to do that and stopped blaming others that I began to think of ways that I could. Yet instead of getting support to do just that, I was instead getting advice on feeling self-esteem absent any previous accomplishment, and I was told that I had a very bad grasp on reality, when in truth I was grasping it perfectly fine. I don’t want to be too reductive and say this is the sole reason it’s taken way longer than it should have for me to have started turning around my game, of course, but there you go.

    (Having been diagnosed on the autism spectrum also gives me something of an interesting-and much, much more cynical-reading of it all. If it turns out the people you are-very, very naively and literally, in my case-trusting in reality have themselves been “brainwashed” by overweaning cultural influences that may or may not be right, it might be better to pay more attention to your emotions and honestly interpret them. The idea that anger, depression, and shame are not integral parts of the human experience is wrong, IMO. If you are feeling ashamed of something, or if you are feeling angry about something, you might be just right to feel that way-and you should think about *why* people telling you not to feel that way are telling you that. From everything from sex to how you work, unless you are a sociopath, natural feelings of shame or anger or other emotions you aren’t “supposed” to feel are in reality quite natural indicators. People are scared them and will often overlay them with emotions they want to feel, whether it is anger at someone else or happiness or whatever.)

    OK… back to my C++. The past is unalterable, the future is unknowable, so the present hearkens. Good luck in your endeavors, sir. I can’t help but wonder if Asians are going to prove to be to 21st Century America what the Illyrian generals were for 3rd Century Rome.

    后会有期…

    PS:

    “For them, having to practice for the test meant your child wasn’t really gifted.”

    Or having to study at all, for anything, I could add. Working hard disproves you are “smart” in our cult of genius laden culture. This attitude is very common among whites, too, needless to say. Personal experience with it, unfortunately…

    • Agree: GammaRay, Yan Shen
    • Replies: @Colleen Pater
    , @LKM
  6. “Hey. Hey. Hey. This is LIBRARY!”

    This girl agrees:

    • LOL: Yan Shen
  7. Thomm says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    That type of fat chick will still never, ever date a White Trashionalist.

    So the WN wiggers who pedestalize this chick don’t realize that she hates them even more.

    Heh heh heh heh

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @silviosilver
  8. Tyrion 2 says:

    East Asian migration to the United States is extremely self-selecting. China really is sending its best.

    The first barrier to some rural Chinese doofus is getting a visa to a tier 3 city in China. In large part, this is given as a result of school results. The same filtering then occurs again at the other tiers. After this, said doofus needs a substabtial sum of money to get to the US. Much more than the average wage in a country where the average person earns at the same level as the average Botswanan.

    All of this means that East Asians coming to the States are very selected for g and conscientiousness as are, to a lesser extent, East Asians in the coastal internationally tested cities of China.

    I think it is therefore very hard to draw any essentialist conclusions as to East Asian natures in total, though it is very easy to do so for the group ‘East Asians in the US’.

  9. Nungman says:

    Likelihood of donating to the school as an alumnus is a legitimate admissions criterion and in that regard Sino-Americans score poorly, sad to note. Chinese culture is highly family oriented and along with commendable traditions of self-reliance there is little tradition of charity for non-Chinese or even for those outside the family though the “family” might number a hundred million. In all there are only around twenty Chinese surnames.
    In America we see Catholic Hospitals, hospitals with “Jewish” in their names, exhibition halls in museums with “In memory of” followed by a variety of European names but one searches in vain for a few Chinese names in these institutions which serve and enrich, and employ, Americans of every background and not a few foreign nationals as well.

    • Replies: @bartok
    , @anon
  10. Stogumber says:

    Well, this article leaves one question unanswered:
    If East Asians are so good, why ever do they so much cheating and gaming in tests?
    It may be a mere bad habit, born out of the difficulties of competing with other East Asians in their homelands.

    • Replies: @Anon
  11. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Duncan

    Americans united by a mindless consumerism, and only a mindless consumerism. What a benign prospect!

  12. … the parasitic memes of left-wing post-modernist insanity which have seemingly hijacked the minds of numerous black, white, and Hispanic Americans alike are absent amongst people of East Asian descent.

    SJW activist Asian-Americans are pretty easy to find. A striking recent example was the flap over “Kimono Wednesdays” at Boston’s Museum of Fine Arts. Plenty of “left-wing post-modernist insanity” going on:

    http://observer.com/2015/07/mfa-boston-cancels-kimono-dress-up-after-allegations-of-racism

    Maoist struggle session:

    http://www.wbur.org/artery/2016/02/08/mfa-kimono-controversy

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/2016/02/08/kimono-controversy-erupts-anew-mfa-panel/olduJEpYVqUUyTM3wunRUM/story.html

    Teitelbaum, who was repeatedly heckled by audience members, appeared visually shaken at times by the term white supremacy. In one particularly tense exchange with an audience member, he refused to answer a question about the museum’s endowment and the racial composition of its board of directors. […]

    Wang, who often dominated the discussion, interrupting audience members and other panelists, tried to define white supremacy more broadly.

    “White supremacy is a kind of invisible swaddling of whiteness and white culture that pervades everywhere,” she said. “It’s not just saluting Hitler or whatever. The word supremacy means it is supreme. It’s what surrounds us. It is what determines our values….I do think in fact this institution is one that participates in the larger system of white supremacy even if skinheads aren’t running the show.”

    • Replies: @anon
  13. The only point at which I paused for disagreement with this excellent article was where it implied approval for the view that giving up volleyball because you were no good at it was a bad idea.

    If it had been gymnastics I could have supported the supposed East Asian view on the ground that a few years of gymnastics could set you up for strength, coordination and physical adaptability for life. If swimming I would have suggested its lifesaving and general fitness value as well as its relation to scuba diving and surfing which one might enjoy one day. But volley ball? No intrinsic value. Only if it meant that one could earn appreciation as a team member could it make sense to make a special effort rather than change sports. And there are other team sports usually available – as well as playing in an orchestra or singing in a choir. But is it really being suggested that East Asians often don’t prioritise their activities or ration their efforts? Is there a tendency to expend serious effort and energy on whatever is put on some official agenda so that the fact that the 6th graders play volley ball as the school sport is somehow compelling?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @latte
  14. @Jason Liu

    C’mon. My niece who speaks Chinese is coming to dinner. Do let me surprise her by providing a translation.

    • Replies: @res
  15. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    With 20 million black slaves?

    • Replies: @anon
  16. anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:

    Mr. Moritz is a capitalist and wants maximum return per head.
    The modernizing East Asians will learn about the unquantified costs in their rush to riches with subsequent generations. Different societal phases, anyone?

  17. As a monolingual American, I had no chance of understanding the coda.
    Luckily for me, Google Translate works well.
    “Son, a man must be able to endure hardship.”

  18. Clyde says:

    Xi Jinping is now president for life. Smart move by you ultra hi-IQ Mingers!

    What’s this I hear about Xi Jinping and his Party rulers instituting a society wide rating system for everyone? Done via internet and collecting all personal data – communications that can be collected. A cross between Facebook, the NSA and the five star Amazon ratings scheme. Thus, if your rating is one star you are banned from certain public transportation and are barred from some jobs. Han Chinese, the conformist, robot master race, like North Koreans crying when their Dear Leaders kick the bucket, but the new improved electronic monitored version.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  19. “儿子, 一个男子汉要能吃苦.”

    My ancient version of FF displays this as a series of text-box symbols. It’s unreadable on my screen, so I am missing this part of the article’s text, as well as the title.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  20. Anonymous[989] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thomm

    fat?

    Howdya figure?

  21. @Tyrion 2

    “China really is sending its best.”?

    Au contraire, mon ami! China’s its rich parents are sending kids who can’t get into a decent (and free) Chinese university.

    We’re getting the dregs.

    • Replies: @Cato
  22. We have the power!
    No.
    What you have is a student loan.

  23. myself says:
    @Tyrion 2

    East Asian migration to the United States is extremely self-selecting. China really is sending its best.

    Almost correct, but not quite.

    Yes, we are getting SOME of the brightest from all over the world, not just from China. Also from India, South America, Europe, Iran, the Arab world, – basically from the whole world.

    But they aren’t the very best of the best. They aren’t the top quartile (top 25%) of their populations, but they are not the bottom either. For example, Chinese immigrants aren’t in the bottom half, of course, but rather the 2nd quartile – the 2nd 25% of the population down from the first.

    Here’s why that is, IMHO:

    If you are the best of the best, in any country, to include America and China, if you are within the top 25%, the world is your oyster.

    YOU get the pick of the jobs, the pick of the best schools, the best networking opportunities. YOU live in the best neighborhoods, shop at the finest stores, eat the best gourmet food. On top of all that, you live with your own race (and that’s VERY important to most people), and most of your society, if you really are that good, admires you and looks up to you.

    To give an American example, say you went to the best school in your state, graduated with a very high GPA, you have a fantastic job with housing and health benefits and an expense account. Your kids go to the best schools in your city, and basically you have the best society has to offer. On top of that, you are among your own race and your own culture. You BELONG there.

    You would not give that up and move away to another state. Few 3rd Worlders, at the top levels of their society, would emigrate.

    Now, if you are still very damn smart (just not the very smartest), very hard working and are pretty damned qualified plus, because the top 25% edge you out for all the things you want out of life, there just isn’t room for you to advance anymore within your society . . . then you are a prime candidate for immigration to America.

    You know you’re not stupid or lazy, and you reason, correctly, that America will give you a better life than what you could have at home. You hesitate, just a little, at the prospect that you will go to a foreign land and basically be an outsider and even a racially alien foreigner.
    Then you take the plunge, and go. You are now an immigrant.

    You may not be the very best of the best, but neither are you on the bottom half. No one can call you lazy or stupid.

    You are smart and you are qualified – in short, you belong to the 2nd quartile of your country.

    • Replies: @Jameson
    , @Anon
    , @Tyrion 2
  24. Having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ changes a persons perception on life (born again?). This is irrespective of ones race.

    • Replies: @Curle
  25. The author begs the question–in the real philosophic usage of that phrase, which means that he leaves the really important underlying issue unaddressed.

    Why should the United States admit any Asians at all into its Universities?

    Why should the United States let any Asians cross its borders except as tourists?

    We have no obligation to accommodate you whatsoever.

    But that the author believes that we do says it all.

    He feels “entitled” to access to our institutions, even if that means overwhelming them with those of his stripe. And inasmuch as there are literally billions of Asians to millions of us, it is statistically inevitable that his stripe will come to dominate if they are free to take positions in our country based on merit.

    The author has developed a not-so-subtle argument which exploits our propensity for self doubt and susceptibility to guilt tripping that would ensure our eventual displacement from our own lands.

  26. … less competent individuals have a tendency to overrate their actual ability more so relative to more competent individuals…

    … many Americans, at least sometimes and under some conditions, have a tendency to inflate their worth…

    Most of us learned, as kids, to brush off the braggarts.

  27. @ThreeCranes

    He’s a Chinese DeRay Mckesson. He is simultaneously a victim and a supremacist, and he simultaneously wants white Europeans to die but not before he can access everything they have created.

    He is similar to what Kay from Men in Black said to describe their alien enemy: ‘Imagine a giant cockroach with a massive inferiority complex. ‘

  28. Joe Hide says:

    To Yan Shen,
    While it may not be your intent for readers, my intent in reading your article quickly became to add to my daily cognitive exercises.
    Your use of vocabulary, range of differing depth of concepts, and logical / factual / presentation was akin to mental weight lifting. I’m an old rural white guy coming from a semi-illiterate, impoverished, ignorance enhancing background, that found that the mind and body are quite upwardly fluid when nourished with strengthening influences. Thanks for the exercise…AND… Good article…but not so long next time. GOOD LUCK YAN!

    • Replies: @Rdm
  29. Jameson says:
    @myself

    Your argument makes sense for people from wealthy countries. For instance, no top 25% German, Irishman, Japanese, or Frenchman comes to the United States. Not even from second tier countries like Chile or Argentina.

    This is because, there are plenty of opportunities for the top 25%, even the top 40%. However, in very poor countries, you need to be in the top 0.1% for your intelligence to truly set you apart. Why? Because in those countries, nepotism is rife. You could be in the top 5%, but that is not what matters. Your parents connections matter. Your ethnic group matters. Your religion matters. What region of the country you’re from matters.

    Meritocracy does not work in those countries. That’s why moderate to low IQ idiots govern those countries. So only an American or someone from a wealthy country would assume that just because you’re talented, you’ll be given opportunities in your country.

    That’s why a talented Indian will come to the US and run circles around WASPs. In India, they may have been in the top 2%, but they had limited connections and there just isn’t enough opportunity. In the US, all you need to do is study hard and get over a 1450 on the SATs and you’re overall set. At least that’s been my experience. And if the 2nd quartile Indians and Chinese are better than most WASPs, then consider me an India optimist.

    *disclaimer: all of these numbers are pulled out of thin air, like most numbers in the comments

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @anonymous
  30. @Duncan

    It’s not really worth responding to people like you, but there is a reason why Voltaire, etc. of the old left always supported China. Despite rambles, China actually is quite meritocractic and mostly avoided formal barriers to inclusion and promotion. Even the harsh Legalist system is universalist(thus the parable that a thief in one country is a model citizen in another).

    The difference is always that the cultural barriers are designed to break down anyone who doesn’t assimilate (or even kill them). But at it’s base, it has never said anyone cannot be part of it.

  31. @ThreeCranes

    Because that same attitude, easily extended, gets you into North Korea. The negative externalities will overwhelm you. Even Japan, which is as close to a successful ethnostate (with a very open meritocractic policy for foreign nationals) is getting slaughtered economically.

    But I do support you in seeking to establish your ethnostate, as I truly do believe in the excellent philosopher Nick Land who likes to do the same, because then you will get to fail with no one to blame.

    Nah, just kidding. Of course you will find something else to blame then.

    And no, arguments of the past are invalid, which I am sure you are about to jump to. The technological environment has changed and it’s as major of a change as a habitat change for any other species.

    • Replies: @INFOCAT
  32. MEH 0910 says:

    OT: A suspect tried to blend in with 60,000 concertgoers. China’s facial-recognition cameras caught him.

    The 31-year-old man, wanted by police, had thought playing a numbers game would be enough to allow him to fade into anonymity.

    The population of China is a staggering 1.4 billion people, give or take a few million.

    More than 45 million of them live in Jiangxi province in southeast China, and 5 million of those people are concentrated in Nanchang, the province’s capital.

    On the night of April 7, nearly 60,000 people — or roughly 1 percent of the city’s population — had gathered at the Nanchang International Sports Center for a concert by Cantopop legend Jacky Cheung.

    Who could ever locate a single person in such a crowd?

    And so it was there, amid the sea of faces in a packed stadium, with everyone’s attention presumably turned to the stage, that the fugitive assumed he was safe from authorities.

    But in the middle of an upbeat electronic song about summer romance, a pair of police officers began descending the aisles, according to footage posted on the Chinese video sharing site Miaopai. Soon, they had arrived at the row they were looking for and apprehended the 31-year-old.

    Before Cheung had finished singing the refrain, officers were escorting the man out of the show.

    The man, identified only by his surname Ao, was reportedly wanted for “economic crimes,” according to Kan Kan News. Details about Ao had been in a national database, and when he had arrived at the stadium, cameras at the entrances with facial-recognition technology had identified him — and flagged authorities, the news site reported.

    “He was completely shocked when we took him away,” police officer Li Jin told Xinhua news agency. “He couldn’t fathom that police could so quickly capture him in a crowd of 60,000.”

    Ao’s unlikely capture became the latest example of China’s growing use of facial-recognition technology.

    As The Washington Post’s Simon Denyer reported, law enforcement and security officials in China hope to use such technology to track suspects and even predict crimes. Ultimately, officials there want to create a comprehensive, nationwide surveillance system known as “Xue Liang,” or “Sharp Eyes” to monitor the movements of its citizens:

    At the back end, these efforts merge with a vast database of information on every citizen, a “Police Cloud” that aims to scoop up such data as criminal and medical records, travel bookings, online purchase and even social media comments — and link it to everyone’s identity card and face.

    A goal of all of these interlocking efforts: to track where people are, what they are up to, what they believe and who they associate with — and ultimately even to assign them a single “social credit” score based on whether the government and their fellow citizens consider them trustworthy.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @Byrresheim
  33. @ThreeCranes

    Why should they accept Asians in American universities? Frankly I never asked that question. The universe told us they were accepting applications so I applied and got accepted and a few years in that very library in the video. Really, really sad to witness the degradation.

    But I did ask myself if I should stay. I chose not to. Why the fuck would I voluntarily make myself a member of a minority?

    • Replies: @myself
  34. Cato says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    At my university we get both kinds of Chinese students: those that are extremely bright and conscientious, and those who drive Porsches and wear expensive clothes.

  35. Very interesting article. You make many good points and bring up ideas that require much thought.

    However, when you talk of meritocracy and hypocrisy in the alt-right and similar, you do seem blind to a large part of what they are all about. Meritocracy is not the Holy Grail. The Holy Grail is a society and culture that benefits the current citizens — with a heavy emphasis on White citizens I suppose. Why should Americans not try to prevent the inflows of people who will, through their superiority intellect and stronger work ethic (as you believe), change the culture and displace them? You claim that it will benefit Americans as a whole, but I suspect you believe that more and more of the Americans who benefit will be your Chinese co-ethnics.

    Also,

    Similarly, a New York Times article described how a recent influx of Chinese, Indian, and Korean immigrants to the elite West Windsor-Plainsboro Regional School District in New Jersey had caused tensions to surface between Asian and white parents there over the competitive focus of these schools.

    This is only partially true and is an example of the false White/non-White dichotomy you deplore elsewhere. I have a Chinese friend whose children are in West Windsor High School. She claims it’s the Indians who are complaining about the Chinese competitiveness. It’s specifically the Chinese parents who defend Grindism. Multiculturalism at its finest!

  36. Yan Shen says:
    @Cato

    I think the general perception is that the Chinese who come over to the US for undergrad generally tend to be the ones who couldn’t get into a good school in China, but the ones who come over for graduate school generally tend to be the ones who graduated from one of the top schools in China…

    So definitely not true that we’re getting only the absolute cream of the crop.

    • Replies: @The Master Wang
  37. bartok says:
    @Nungman

    The point is valid, but it is changing to some extent. E.g. a Chinese ethnic is the prime supporter of the Orange County symphony.

  38. res says:
    @Tyrion 2

    East Asian migration to the United States is extremely self-selecting. China really is sending its best.

    From the IAB brain drain data, the 2010 emigration rates from China (to all OECD countries) for low/medium/high skill (based on education) Chinese were 0.16% 0.10% 2.29%

    For Chinese men in the US we have 117176 124926 308889 individuals in those categories.

    For comparison, the corresponding Indian numbers are:
    0.14% 0.17% 4.97%
    36157 76155 666595

    Contrast both of those to the same numbers for Mexicans:
    17.80% 9.63% 12.12%
    2900516 1468257 675837

    P.S. Tyrion 2, the spreadsheets also have data for the UK if you are interested: http://www.iab.de/en/daten/iab-brain-drain-data.aspx

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @Thomm
    , @Rdm
  39. @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Rofl. Having never heard anyone use a cell phone in the UCLA libraries, stereotypical UCLA blonde chick suffers epiphanus interuptus.

  40. res says:

    Yan Shen, since you write such long articles could you add some more organization? In particular, I think numbering your figures would be helpful for discussion and a hyperlinked table of contents would make for both a good overview and ease navigation. I like the way you make the references expandable.

    The CAT table figure is interesting. One thing that jumped out at me is the large difference between IQ and CAT scores for Indians. This is clarified a bit by following your link and seeing that the IQs are from Lynn’s data for the country. The CAT/IQ d scores might make a good metric for selective immigration.

    I am curious why you did not give more self esteem data. For example, this paper is useful: Adolescent Self-Esteem: Differences by Race/Ethnicity, Gender, and Age

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3263756/

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
  41. @Cato

    chinese international students were hired at about 200k-400k salary at an AI based investment company. a few of them were asked if they plan to stay in the usa for life and become citizens, they all replied no. their plan were mostly get 5-10 years of experience and go back to china to become rich. most of them wanted to become an entrepreneur and open their own company.

    that is the cream of the crop. the ones who will create some of the future golden unicorns for china.

  42. @Yan Shen

    “So definitely not true that we’re getting only the absolute cream of the crop.”

    You think you are one of them now? You are just another racial alien destined for the happy camps when the inevitable shooting war starts. Anyone who uses “we” to include people of other races is a fool.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Yan Shen
  43. Yan,

    Kudos for moving–at least a bit–on into the territory of Asian personality traits/culture.

    Welcome after the more or less complete miss in your first effort of dissing “g” and hyping the 3rd order effect of East Asian math-verbal skew as the be-all-and-end-all of the Asia’s rise, when, in fact, the order is:
    –> IQ (g)
    –> the Asian personality matrix–conscientiousness, low time-preference, cooperation–enabling what we could call “Asian grinding”
    –> “Asians good at math”

    And–not quite kudos–but i did notice that your mandatory Yan Shen Derbyshire name check, didn’t actually have your hoary and ridiculous assertion that he’s obsessed with blacks–though we’re supposed to infer that from the reference to his “the talk” piece. (No doubt Derbyshire’s given his kids advice similar to your parents’ advice to you–i.e. suck it up.)

    You’ve tossed out plenty of stuff to have fun with, but one of those lazy, not working 12 hours a day, white men i’m here on April 14th still wading through our taxes. Maybe later.

  44. @res

    Thanks. It hadn’t occured to me to look for an online translator of Chinese characters. Obvious now that you have done it for me.

  45. Yan Shen says:
    @res

    The literal translation of the last two words is “eat bitterness”, which is a pretty popular Chinese saying and also something I’ve been recommending that Americans of all stripes diet on a bit more…

    Might also help with America’s obesity epidemic! :)

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/america-s-obesity-epidemic-reaches-record-high-new-report-says-n810231

  46. Yan Shen says:
    @res

    Thanks for the link. Definitely good and relevant information. Also thanks for your feedback, I’ll strive to get better at writing articles in the future. I’m mostly at the mercy of the automated software of this site in terms of how stuff gets formatted. I think the last one got a table of contents because it probably exceeded some length threshold.

    I liked the two paragraphs below from skimming the linked article.

    We should briefly address a concern about the cultural construction of self-esteem that is relevant for the present investigation. Some authors have suggested that “self-esteem, as it is conventionally researched and understood, may be, in significant ways, a North American phenomenon” (Heine et al., 1999, p. 768; but see Sedikides, Gaertner, & Toguchi, 2003; Sedikides, Gaertner, & Vevea, 2007). This perspective does not seem easy to reconcile with evidence that the Rosenberg self-esteem scale has acceptable psychometric properties and similar relations with Extraversion and Neuroticism in Japan, India, and the United States (Schmitt & Allik, 2005). Thus, we believe there are compelling reasons to accept the notion that self-esteem is a relevant individual difference construct in many cultures and contexts. For the present paper, our point is that there might be differences in the “cultural press for the expression of high self-esteem” as it relates to responses on paper and pencil measures both within and across cultures. Indeed, recent work by Cai et al. (2007) suggests that Chinese individuals feel positively about themselves but that cultural norms related to modesty account for observed differences in self-esteem scores between Chinese and American research participants. Likewise, it appears that implicit measures of self-esteem are less likely to show differences between those from Asian countries and the United States.

    However, the figure also shows certain subgroup differences that replicate fairly consistently across genders and grades. In particular, and consistent with Hypothesis 1, African Americans are most likely to score at the top of the self-esteem scale whereas Asian Americans are least likely to do so (with 8th-grade males as the sole exception). These differences are highly statistically significant, as can be seen in the next section when we compare mean scores (including confidence intervals) across subgroups.

    Yeah CAT scores seem to suggest that Vietnamese and Filipinos are decently self-selected relative to their native populations, at least the ones in the state of California! The aggregate Asian American category has always been a huge mess to untangle…

    • Replies: @res
  47. @nebulafox

    or it could be east asians are as tribal as jews blacks hispanics and chimpanzees and so have a or submissive socialization and work find esteem through group not individual success. Obviously you dont websites to tell you jew or not jew like the blacks you just know. maybe your ses does not correlate because you’re all clustered at the top with the jews. maybe youre like the jews regarding political correctness, you dont take that shit from the browns and blacks because you are the new jews exempt from that shit. because while i notice you dont take no shit from rioting and protesting niggers you sure have no qualms pulling the race card on whites.

  48. @The Master Wang

    But maybe one who will have a lifetime of greater happiness than those with your fearful or paranoid streak. Happy harmony certainly can break down as Hitler’s Germany proved but only after the masses had suffered a horrendous depression only 12 years after a humiliating experience of war which also made taking life seem less coonsequential. (And yes I know that it was happy harmony for many despite age old German anti-Semitism persisting and being visible). Was PM Disraeli wrong or foolish to speak as an Englishman? Or Colin Powell as an American?

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  49. “匹夫无罪,怀璧其罪”

    what does this mean? my mandarin is not good enough to translate it. this was the cryptic msg a chinese friend sent. we were casually talking about the chinese/china’s predicament.

    • Replies: @Lin
  50. Lugash says:

    What happened next has become the stuff of internet legend. As the Social Justice Jihadis became increasingly more disruptive, they were suddenly confronted by a bespectacled gentleman most likely of Chinese or Korean descent, who authoritatively declared, “Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library.” A somewhat uncomfortable silence ensued and thus one of the clearest dispensations of 21st century Confucian wisdom came to pass. Although the incident was undoubtedly a source of amusement to many, to me the surreal confrontation highlighted not only just how deeply rotten modern day American culture had become, but also the clear extent to which East Asian and non-East Asian cultural values had diverged in the 21st century.

    You’re dramatically over-inflating what the bespectacled gentleman did. He wasn’t a sage passing on Confucian wisdom, he was a naive foreigner who thought the protestors had mistakenly entered the library. You can see the social justice hive mind trying to figure out if it’s OK to attack this PoC. A white person who spoke up would have gotten harassed or beaten.

    I’m sure some of his more woke foreign student friends clued him in on what he did that night.

    • Replies: @myself
    , @anonymous
  51. CCR says:

    Alas, I hold out hope that this isn’t to be our inevitable fate.

    There’s something wrong with this sentence.

  52. Poor Yan Shen the hardship he must endure as a person of color in the US. Things like being invited here to live, citizenship for his children should he ever have such, a job in SV and the life that goes with it. I would suggest YS decide if he wants to be an American and if so stop the whinging. If not it is time that he GTFO. If he wishes to discover can he endure hardship he might try his lot in one of the nations of the Muslim world.

    He offers nothing here, but his version of iSteve’s female law of journalism.

    Let us take a look at elite Chinese universities to see how the Chinese welcome American students.
    Tsinghua University
    “Roughly 3,500 international students ”

    http://www.tsinghua.edu.cn/publish/newthuen/newthuen_cnt/admissions/admissions-3-1.html

    Tsinghua University is a research university located in Beijing and a member of the C9 League of Chinese universities. Wikipedia
    Total enrollment: 45,237 (Dec 2014)

    Harbin Institute of Technology

    http://hit.admissions.cn/

    Students: 51639 (as of
    Intl’ Students: 1966 (as of December)

    Birth citizenship

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

    Nations ranked by foreign born population

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population

  53. Lin says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    匹夫无罪 –>The man is innocent
    怀璧其罪–>He is guilty because he owns a piece of treasure/jade.
    ………….
    It came from a very old story during the Warring States period about the piece of jade from which the royal seal of an ancient king was made. I think it changed hands a number of times and became the imperial seal of the 1st emperor. If I remember right it was later lost or shattered.
    …………
    A perfect description why people like kaddafy was labelled as villian or why oil rich countries became targets of western powers

  54. @Lin

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Shi_Bi

    Yue Fei’s death is oddly appropriate for this too. It doesn’t matter if you were the most virtuous person alive, you will be sacrificed if someone in power found it convenient or handy for his own vices.

    • Replies: @Lin
  55. Hacienda says:

    “匹夫无罪,怀璧其罪”

    Really bad advice. Makes a fetish of bitterness. A Chinese woman’s payback.
    Tragedy of the commons. Resource scarcity. Little man’s harvest. Etc.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  56. @Duncan

    “Hey, how many non-Chinese does China take in a year?”

    As of 2010, Communist China had 1448 naturalized citizens. That’s not how many they took in that year — that’s the total number of naturalized citizens living in China in 2010.

    Apparently diversity is not the Han’s strength, but only the White man’s. Or perhaps “diversity” as commonly used in mainstream propaganda doesn’t really mean a multiracial, multicultural, multilingual society where everyone lives in harmony despite their differences, after all?

    Meaning is determined by usage. And judging by the way in which “diversity” is typically used by The Narrative, it simply means “chasing down the last White person.”

    • Replies: @Anonym
  57. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    but also the clear extent to which East Asian and non-East Asian cultural values had diverged in the 21st century.

    Not so. While protesters are the loud wing of PC, the ideas themselves were hatched by academics quietly studying and writing books.

    So, the irony is that even though the Asian kid asked for quiet in the library, he was dutifully studying PC to serve it and spread it around the world.

    Asians may be less loud in style, but their diligence w]makes them absorb PC more deeply because they are such teacher’s pets into status approval.

    75% of Asiatics are proggy.

  58. @Lin

    now I finally understand what he meant. thanks.

  59. @Hacienda

    it isn’t advice, I don’t know how you came to the conclusion that it was advice. I even clearly stated the topic we were talking about.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  60. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ve lived 2/3 of my 56 year life in this SS Chicago, University of Chicago Hyde Park Community – tough place to leave.

    Somethings here never seem to change. But, some new things in recent years:

    1) Lots of attractive women U of C students – who thought that would ever happen?

    2) Lots and lots of Mainland China, Communist Chinese students.

    While other American East Asian and other Asian countries (Singapore, Taiwan, S Korea) have hard working, high academic SAT scoring students, it’s obvious that the Mainland/Communist Chinese student cheat to get accepted here – they ace the English language SAT and alternative tests, but they can’t seem to read, write or speak proper English. Obviously there is a huge market for English speaking Han Chinese to take the tests for them.

    But, outside of nouvou riche Mainland Chinese – I am giving the nod to East Asians over us White Americans, WHite Western Europeans. Seems like everyone in East Asia has practical views about mass immigration, Islam, sexual degeneracy, feminism – while our youth and Baby Boomers seem to have no clue or are for suicide of the West.

    50,000 plus White Americans gave their lives defending South Korea from becoming Communist North Korea. Maybe some South Koreans can step up like this guy and defend our libraries, defend the rights of Westerners to read Shakespeare, Kipling and Mark Twain, defend the rights of free Westerners to occasional use “the N word” Mark Twain uses it, or speaks unspeakable truths like the fact that a very hostile Jewish Media Mafia now dominates the American culture and Jewish and Non Jewish Zionists and Neo Conservatives keeps pushing us in to these never ending wars for Israel.

  61. @Wizard of Oz

    “Was PM Disraeli wrong or foolish to speak as an Englishman?”

    Or dishonest?

    Perhaps Disraeli is not the ideal example to illustrate your point, when arguing in favor of civic nationalism/ race denialism.

    What did Disraeli himself have to say?

    “All is race.”

    Lord George Bentinck: A Political Biography (1852), p. 331.

    Or, at greater length:

    “…that pernicious doctrine of modern times,the natural equality of man. The political equality of a particular race is a matter of municipal arrangement and depends entirely on political considerations and circumstances; but the natural equality of man now in vogue, and taking the form of cosmopolitan fraternity, is a principle which, were it possible to act on it, would deteriorate the great races and destroy all the genius of the world. What would be the consequence on the great Anglo-Saxon republic, for example, were its citizens to secede from their sound principle of reserve, and mingle with their negro and coloured populations? In the course of time they would become so deteriorated that their states would probably be reconquered and regained by the aborigines whom they have expelled and who would then be their superiors.”

    Ibid., p. 496.

    And of course, Disraeli devotes all of Chapter 24 in this book to the history of (and prospects for) the Jewish race (his words).

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  62. Lin says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “Yue Fei’s death is oddly appropriate for this too”
    No. 怀璧其罪 specifically refers to possession of something physical and very valuable.
    Yue Fei’s death had mostly to do the throne that the reigning Sung emperor felt threatened by Yue Fei’s possible success of rescuring the elder former emperors captured by the Jins OR like my hi-school history teacher said, Yue Fei probably had ambition of his own.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  63. Clearly, those “racist” Japanese and Chinese need to stop culturally appropriating suits and ties from evil Whitey.

  64. Hacienda says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Okay. I was referring to the Chinese characters at the end of YS’s article. A thousand apologies.

  65. Curle says:
    @Postoasted

    I’ve noticed it helps people get through hard times but I haven’t seen it insulate people from the self-esteem and Dunning-Kruger problems referenced in this article. Some of the most delusional people relative to abilities I’ve met have been born again. And, I somewhat suspect it derives from imagining that God will take care of the difficult stuff.

  66. AndrewR says:
    @MEH 0910

    China: leading the way into the authoritarian future.

    “who they associate with”

    I am triggered by the fact that WaPo would publish an article using “who” incorrectly.

  67. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lin

    怀璧其罪 specifically refers to possession of something physical and very valuable.

    True, when it was written in “The Spring and Autumn Annals” around 5th century BC.

    此语出自《春秋左传·桓公十年》,原文是:“初,虞叔有玉,虞公求旃。弗献。既而悔之,曰:‘周谚有之:“匹夫无罪,怀璧其罪。”吾焉用此,其以贾害也?’乃献之。又求其宝剑。叔曰:‘是无厌也。无厌,将及我。’遂伐虞公。故虞公出奔共池。”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_and_Autumn_Annals

    But nowadays, the meaning of the phrase could refer to something NOT physical, like one’s talent or ambition. 璧/Jade is symbolic for something of importance or valuable.

  68. Dmitry says:

    The Chinese street was better at counting, moderately.

  69. Thomm says:
    @res

    Interesting.

    Some will point out that the skew is more towards high skill for Chinese and even more for Indians, but the data also says that 97.7% of smart Chinese and 95% of smart Indians are not leaving.

    The data tables you provided are about 40 IQ points above what the typical WN wigger can grasp, but it proves that the narrative of ‘these countries are poor because all of their best people have left’ is outright innumerate.

    • Replies: @myself
  70. Thomm says:
    @res

    Contrast both of those to the same numbers for Mexicans:
    17.80% 9.63% 12.12%
    2900516 1468257 675837

    I question this. The only country that Mexicans go to is the US. Extremely few go to Spain.

    Yet, we are to believe that almost a third of the Mexicans that come to the US are high-skilled? That is certainly not the case, or there would be a Mexican upper-middle-class that is just as numerous as the Mexican working class in the US.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    , @res
  71. J.Ross says: • Website

    First of all I want to take away all your adjectives, adverbs, and self-references.
    Secondly, Alinskyite BLM hooliganism represents “American values” about as well as a Uyghur bomber represents Xi Jinping thought.
    Third of all, as was the case with your people in their depths, the answer to our decadence is our traditions, not somebody else’s.

    • Replies: @mcohen
  72. anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    East Asian migration to the United States is extremely self-selecting. China really is sending its best.

    Best in what? Talking loudly everywhere, being rude and annoying? Cheating? Copycats? Horrendous driving skills? Then yes, China really is sending its best in all of the above.

    • Replies: @Escher
  73. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Twodees Partain

    Unacceptable. FF = Firefox?

    1) Set your browser to recognise Chinese language internet sites.

    Windows users: Under “Tools – Options” on your browser’s menu-bar add Chinese to the languages list.
    Macintosh users: Under “Preferences – Languages” on your browser’s menu-bar add Chinese to the languages list.

    2) Set your browser’s “Character Set” or “Encoding” to UTF-8 (sometimes also called Universal Alphabet or Unicode).

    English pages will generally continue to display normally after making this change.
    Encoding settings can be changed under the “View” option in your browser’s menu-bar.

    http://jp41.com/firefox/chinese/

    This might be a bit dated.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  74. anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    I’ve seen first hand how the Chinese behave in my local community library, and I totally agree with her. Grown adults chatter and cackle loudly in Chinese, right under the sign that says “Quiet Area”. The mainland Chinese are a rude, barbaric tribe.

    • Agree: Escher
  75. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Clyde

    Xi is a South American-style presidente por vida.
    No. I have totally forgotten the name of the excellent China-focused blogger Steve Sailer linked a couple of months ago (help?), but he explained very clearly that Xi has three offices, two of which (army and party chief) are red meat and one of which (“President”) is sauce, and the term limit was pretty much a formality. He will remain influential and not permit big policy detours but he is not expected to literally remain in office to his death.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @Clyde
  76. anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    ROTFL this is the most hilarious thing ever. The idiot culture-obsessed white libtards think they are so woke by embracing traditional Asian “culture”, while the Asians associate any link to their traditional culture as white supremacist stereotyping of Asians. This is absolutely hilarious, and serves them right!

  77. anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Nungman

    Since when are the Chosen known for their charity and generosity? The only reason they donate is to get their kids into these schools, like Charles Kushner donating $2.5m to Harvard just as Jared was starting to apply to college, or John Paulson donating $400m to Harvard when his kids are a year away from applying to college, all coincidence, I’m sure.

    Jews don’t know altruism if it hits them in the face.

  78. anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Admitting blacks was America’s first mistake. The second was admitting Catholics. Third and the final straw that broke the camel’s back was admitting Jews. That was the beginning of the end for America, for the Jews quickly wrest control from the WASPs and flooded the country with the multicultural horde, and it was all downhill from there. Three strikes and you’re out.

  79. J.Ross says: • Website

    >there is a problem with self-esteem
    Yes. There was an actual cult of self-esteem for its own sake, beginning in the late seventies. “Everybody gets a trophy.” Not the same thing as the Western conception of the individual as endowed with God-given rights which precede the existence and prerogatives of the State. The answer cannot be the Asian idea that power and authority are the same thing, that the State is always right, or the often disgusting-to-Asians worship of material success.
    >there are rightists as bad as the paid astroturf rioters travelling from city to city breaking windows.
    Hmm, I missed the part where you proved this. The only real thing actual traditionalists have done in numbers and in the grip of political fervor was the 2016 election.
    >dunning-kruger
    The ultimate proof of Dunning-Kruger is all the people who invoke it imagining that it cannot apply to them. What I see is the stereotypical Chinese holder of power dismissing all criticism, because after all, he is in the emperor’s pavilion or the warlord’s camp or the inner party kaffeeklatsch and you are not: even if you are factually correct, he has the power to demonstrate the Chinese understanding of rectitude, killing you, censoring your information, and over-writing whatever you had to say with his version. Besides, in the time that I have been slumming around dark places in the wired, I have not met anyone who doubted Asian intelligence altogether. Stories about Asians cheating come from actually witnessing Asians cheating, and even then there is a sense that these are the Asians who need to cheat, but there are some real Zhuge Liangs somewhere. The worst Sambo stereotype of Chinese in the bad old days of open racism was Fu Manchu — who is a genius before he is anything else. This whining about not appreciating Asian test results is overdue for a balancing appreciation about English common law tradition, American thinking on rights, and Western verbal accomplishments — oh, but that will never happen, will it, because of Dunning-Kruger and the math/verbal split.

  80. Yan Shen says:
    @Thomm

    I think if you weight the percentages by population of each group, you get something like 13.4% of Mexican emigrants to OECD countries are considered to be highly skilled… (Contrasted to over 56% of Chinese emigrants being considered high skilled.)

    • Replies: @Thomm
  81. J.Ross says: • Website
    @J.Ross

    Follow-up to this: I found him, it’s Bloody Shovel.

    https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/china-doesnt-care-about-your-opinion/

    This is important. Falsely accusing China of authoritarianism, when there plenty of true accusations to keep track of, makes Facebook staff smile.

  82. mcohen says:
    @J.Ross

    China’s cultural revolution saw mao sending millions of his countrymen to hell,like sheep with no self esteem straight to the slaughter.
    In america he would have been shot dead on the first day of the great march to nowhere.
    The newly minted chinese cultural revolution, is attempting to climb out of that hole it dug for itself.
    The west has been there done that.

    • Replies: @TT
  83. RJJCDA says:

    One reason why some on the Right have a problem with Asians is that Asians tend to vote for the Left – the Democratic Party. If they were roughly somewhat more evenly committed politically, maybe the uneasiness with Asians would dissipate.

    But my view is that Whites and Asians are complimentary as we are more noun oriented while Asians are more verb oriented. We balance out for the betterment of the species. I hope.

  84. “America has simultaneously been blessed and cursed by its high degree of racial diversity.”

    I didn’t see in the article where you counted those “blessings.” Peanut butter and jazz? I could live without both. Sure, getting nukes before the krauts or commies was nice — and a tip of the hat to my Hebrew friends for sidling up to the stars and stripes instead of the hammer and sickle on that one — but Diversity in the sense that it’s commonly used… as you say… “uhhh”…

  85. @RJJCDA

    Like most things with (Chinese) Asians, there’s a couple layers here. Yeah, I know they went hard for Obama. But even I chipped in a bit at the time to do my affirmative action penance (and frankly it’s just democracy, which is like my beater bike in that I don’t bother maintaining it or even locking up).

    The bigger trends though paint a more complex picture

    1) virtue signaling (consensus) is pretty strong (baked in even?)
    2) but it’s generally NOT their true intent (Cf “preference falsification”)
    3) the _second_ they have skin in the game, watch out for those tiger moms, e.g. see what happened to the bill in CA to re-instate affirmative action

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/03/17/california-affirmative-action-revival-bill-is-dead/

    I personally know Chinese friends (all 1 or at worst 2 percenters) who register Democrat but vote Republican. Even when they know that their one vote is basically meaningless in our one party state, they do it just to fuck with the system.

  86. that never gets old!!!

  87. res says:
    @Thomm

    Yet, we are to believe that almost a third of the Mexicans that come to the US are high-skilled?

    675837 / (2900516 + 1468257 + 675837) = 0.13 (proportion of high skill among Mexican male immigrants to the US)
    That does not sound like “almost a third” to me. Yan Shen’s point about weighting the percent emigration rates by home country proportions is probably what you were missing.

    Also keep in mind that they define high skill as SOME tertiary education. Here is the description of the skill levels from their methodology PDF:

    We distinguish three levels of education: primary (low skilled: includes lower secondary, primary and no schooling); secondary (medium skilled: high-school leaving certificate or equivalent) and tertiary education (high skilled: higher than high-school leaving certificate or equivalent).

  88. res says:
    @Yan Shen

    I think the last one got a table of contents because it probably exceeded some length threshold.

    It looks to me like your last article used a different tag for section headings. They show as a larger font hyperlink there. Perhaps the TOC is autogenerated if that heading style is used?

    Thanks for the response and your article.

  89. Clyde says:
    @J.Ross

    You saw how the Chinese lawmen just caught a guy via face recognition tech -and cameras everywhere- at a soccer match with 60,000 fans. Sent their police right to his seat to yank him, he was with his family. His later comment – “I would not have gone if I knew this was possible”

    Hail the New Ming Dynasty done up communist party style!

    • Replies: @TT
    , @J.Ross
  90. 4700 words just to prove that Asians should be deported from the US>

    • Replies: @TT
  91. Ivy says:

    Self esteem discussions offer some topics. For example, when was the last time you heard anyone under 21 refer to someone as Sir or Ma’am, at least outside the South?

  92. Rdm says:

    Yan Shen

    To wit, white Californians do not hold a principled commitment to a fixed standard of merit

    Study Vincent Chin

    White judge said:
    “These weren’t the kind of men you send to jail… You don’t make the punishment fit the crime; you make the punishment fit the criminal.”

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
  93. Rdm says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Agreed.

    Not all East Asians are smart. There are some idiots and total stupidity run amok in some parts of China.

    Well., the same can be said with anyone from other countries as well, except with the “Genius Visa” though.

  94. Thomm says:
    @Yan Shen

    Yes, one takes ‘C’ and divides it by ‘A+B+C’.

    The point is, when one takes the numbers for China vs. India vs. Mexico, some things don’t add up.

    For example : 308,889 Chinese are 2.29% of their skilled tier.
    Similarly : 666,595 Indians are 4.97% of their skilled tier.

    So that indicates that the skilled tier in both countries is about the same (13M).

    That does not sound right. China’s should be much larger. But both numbers seem low in total.

    Similarly, if 675,800 Mexicans comprise 12.12% of Mexico’s skilled tier, then that means their entire skilled tier of men is only 5.5M. That seems somewhat low.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
  95. Rdm says:
    @Joe Hide

    You should then study GRE.

    Here’s a few words you might as well find stimulating to your cognitive ability.

    1. speakeasy
    2. gossamer
    3. pastiche
    4. ineluctable
    5. succour

    Then try Mensa IQ test and you White people will be cranking up the entire White people IQ by +10 points.

  96. Rdm says:
    @res

    Are you implying that

    High skill brain drains from India and Mexico are twice as large as those from China?

    Should Chinese be happy or sad that their country still has the high skill labor back home? Or

    Is America high skill labor largely contributed by Indians and Mexicans?

    • Replies: @myself
    , @TT
    , @res
  97. i was willing to take most of this article seriously.

    I had but two winces: the utter silliness of “Tiger mothers” all parents who relentless press for the child’s acedemic success are of the same vein — the self promotion of I am a asian mother who cares and is superior to others, especially that little anecdotes about “impulse control” and how blacks don’t have it. Obviously people who embrace this nonsense have no comprehension of history of blacks in the US beyond what they see on television and movies — almost all geared to appeal to one’s shallow emotional self confirmations — so much for the analytical depth of the supposed “tiger mother”.

    Sure parents should press for their children’s academic success and play down the need for pathos adornment – and no population has had to embrace being tough against the odds more than blacks second not even to native americans. Focus on school not much of a deep revelation — And parents with less should push that agenda even more and avoid the psychological games of self esteem — and everybody wins — life is tough and the underclass knows that better than anyone —

    But nothing was so upending to the article than this,

    “In California, the blogosphere has been full of chatter about the inequity of life. Some of this, especially for women, is true and for certain individuals their day of reckoning has been long overdue.”

    The US has turned the society upside down to cater to the demands of white women, including the emphasis on pathos and mutual appreciation and self esteem worship pressed primarily, if not exclusively by and for women — most pointedly — white women. So for all of the articles touts — it makes exception for the largest group which has dampened competition for the purpose of self esteem building and nurturing youth.

    Head scratching wasn’t enough. Challenging the cool aide and drinking in one breadth — because women have power are as it stands now aren’t all that fond of the truth that they more than any other group are eroding anything traditional in nearly every aspect of US life. That’s why I love the arguments about AA. Because when talking about lowering standards — the single largest demographic for which standards have been universally lowered is white women.

    Excuse my political incorrectness.

  98. myself says:
    @The Master Wang

    But I did ask myself if I should stay. I chose not to. Why the fuck would I voluntarily make myself a member of a minority?

    Why would ANYONE want to be a minority? Well, those who do it do so because of a desperate lack of prospects for advancement back home. But they must be realistic, and they must accept that they’ll never belong in America.

    You’ll notice that most first-generation immigrants don’t clamor for “inclusiveness” or “integration” – maybe their kids will, but never them. They have already made up their minds that they’re gonna accept social isolation, grit their teeth, and get on with their lives.

    The deal they make with America is this: “We keep our heads down and we put food on the table.” Metaphorically, of course.

    1st-generation immigrants have a degree of desperation driving them. Desperation doesn’t mean you’re a menial laborer with no skills, it can arise when you have very good skills, but your country lacks avenues for your talents.

    As for yourself, that you chose to go home reflects the rapidly rising prospects in your society (wherever that may be). If so, it seems you chose very well.

  99. Yan Shen says:
    @Rdm

    I’ve long pointed out that Asian bashing in this country has become so normalized that we don’t even realize when it happens. Usually the bashing is verbal, but as evidenced by the sad example of Vincent Chin, sometimes the bashing becomes physical and deadly.

    The funny thing is the two guys who beat him to death supposedly assumed he was Japanese or something. I think this also goes to my other point that white nationalist types are terribly myopic if they think the real source of competition for Americans is from the tiny handful of Chinese currently living in this country. Surely the rise of 1380 million people in mainland China will pose much more of a long term competitive threat to white Americans than the much smaller number of 5 million or so ethnic Chinese in the USA.

    On the night of June 19, 1982, a fight occurred at the Fancy Pants strip club on Woodward Avenue in Highland Park where Chin was having his bachelor party. The group was thrown out and, after a heated exchange of words, subsequently parted ways. Ebens allegedly instigated the incident by declaring, “It’s because of you little motherfuckers that we’re out of work!” referring to U.S. auto manufacturing jobs having been lost to Japan, particularly referring to sales of Chrysler’s rebadged Mitsubishis as captive imports, having mistaken the Chinese-American Chin as being Japanese.[2]

  100. TT says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Mr Roberts understanding of China is quite inline with what i heard from China friends.

    Those come from Chinese ivory uni told, the best Chinese aren’t going overseas. They are competing to enter Tsinghua, Beijing uni, etc., these are their true best cream. Many graduates will then stay to work in China, while some are sent abroad to further study selectively. Eventually, they will return.

    The rich who can’t get into Chinese uni, spend a fortune sent their children to US & UK. You can find them living in luxurious wasteful lifestyle, in Oz, Nz & Spore too driving exotic sports car.

    The lower rung, send to Oz Nz uni. And left over, dumped in Spore & Asia uni. Still these dredge excel in Spore uni(rated top 10 in some STEM courses) and proceed to migrate to Canada, which make me wonder what kind of caliber is their true elite.

    Of course there are always some bottom dredge studying in Malaysia or somewhere trying to get a student visa for work.

    In general, US is not getting nor retaining the best. At best, middle grade. And China uni graduate consider themselves 1st class, US UK ivory uni graduate 2nd class, Oz Nz uni 3rd class, Spore & Jp uni 4th class. That’s what i have been consistently told.

    • Agree: Yan Shen
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  101. Yan Shen says:
    @The Master Wang

    Well I’ve probably stated this at least 100 times by now, but I’m obviously an American. I have US citizenship, a US passport, and pretty much anything else legally that would identify me as a citizen of this country.

    The extremists though are always insinuating that somehow this isn’t enough. About the only other thing I could do is to adopt some good ole fashioned American name like John or Steve or Ron, but I think at this point it’s probably a bit too late to legally change my name…

  102. songbird says:
    @Tyrion 2

    And the female shortage isn’t in the cities, it is in the countryside, so even though women are having fewer children, it could be eugenic.

  103. Yan Shen says:
    @Thomm

    Well I haven’t looked at the data that Res linked to, but it seems like only individuals aged 25 or older are considered to be part of the denominator.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/275411/age-distribution-in-mexico/

    Mexico has a population distribution skewed towards the younger demographic, similar to the age distribution of Latinos in the US. With a total population of 128 million and maybe 30-35% or more of individuals being below the age of 25, assuming a relatively low rate of college attainment among those aged 25 or older, those numbers seem like they make sense…

    Even overall for China something like 9% of the relevant population (not sure exactly how that’s defined) has a bachelor’s degree or higher, although I’m sure this % has gone up significantly for more recent high school cohorts. The Cultural Revolution fucked up a large cohort of people. I remember my parents telling me how they were sent to work out in the fields or something and didn’t begin their undergrad until the age of 26 or so…

    https://www.quora.com/Why-does-only-9-of-the-Chinese-population-have-a-bachelors-degree

  104. myself says:
    @Lugash

    he was a naive foreigner who thought the protestors had mistakenly entered the library

    You’re right, he was clueless, but I think not in the way you say he was.

    The Asian student thought that he was still back in Asia, where if you point out someone’s OBVIOUS bad behavior, people would naturally feel guilty and hopefully just stop. Probably thought “Hey it works back home, why not here?”

    “Why not here?”

    ANSWER: Because this is modern AMERICA, m*therf#cker! Here, we don’t give a flying f#ck!

    And THAT set the Asian foreign student straight!

  105. kauchai says:
    @ThreeCranes

    1) Why should the United States admit any Asians at all into its Universities?

    Chinese students numbered 300,000 in the US. Assuming each one spent USD10k per year very conservatively, that’s USD 3 billion into the piggy bank accounts of greedy professors and half baked lecturers. These people are living the good life off the backs of these students and their parents. It is not altruism on the part of the empire to have chinese or other asian students on its campuses.

    2) Why should the United States let any Asians cross its borders except as tourists?

    Because most of them (especially the chinese) bring with them big wads of cash and brains. Walk into any R&D outlets in the empire, you will not fail to see lab technicians of asian origin working their butts off for their corporate kleptokrat bosses. Its not altruism on the part of the empire.

    3) We have no obligation to accommodate you whatsoever.

    Just stop the student visa and green card nonsense and you will not be bothered anymore. But then again, your own greedy professors and corporate-kleptokrats will skewer you for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

    • Agree: GammaRay
    • LOL: TT
    • Replies: @Disordered
  106. songbird says:

    I once found myself in the same situation as that Asian guy at the library. For a moment, I considered telling the protesters off, but then I realized I was a white guy, and reasonable people don’t start their protest outside the library.

    If I were Asian, I would have told them off gently. If I were black, I would have elbowed my way inside the crowd and then grabbed the megaphone, and then had the time of my life watching them squirm, as I told them I was trying to study, so I could work my way out of the ghetto.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @myself
    , @Rdm
  107. TT says:
    @mcohen

    Mao is gone, but the West are still producing new replacement.

    We are still witnessing the West leaders doing the similar thing to their people, albeit in deceitful PC way by sending their young men to die for their capitalists & Israel greater Kingdom dream in endless wars, massacre millions after millions since WWI.

    None was shot but well rewarded, and voting one warmonger after another in a row.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  108. myself says:
    @Thomm

    ome will point out that the skew is more towards high skill for Chinese and even more for Indians, but the data also says that 97.7% of smart Chinese and 95% of smart Indians are not leaving.

    The preference of most human beings to live and work among their own kind, regardless of circumstances, is probably overwhelming.

  109. Laughing.

    You might want to take a look at those AA numbers before making a statement how Asians have born the brunt of AA cut outs —

    Since asian is a ethnicity and not a skin color they along with hispanic ethnicity are included in role counts as whites.

    Take a look at who really is eating up AA redress — which is not really a redress at all. Even Fox news has had the courage to make this admission.

    I fully support that parents should aggressively support their child’s education, including or even especially in technical fields.

    And absolutely, the high context nature of Asian communities and other high context societies would press for cooperation above individual desires making it easier to assimilate as they would be less inclined to push back — even if they were legally impeded.

  110. TT says:
    @Clyde

    Won’t it be great if all criminals & terrorists are able to lift off from us in such incredible technology? You sure wish they could detect the serial rapist or paedophile sitting next to your adolescent daughter.

    Its certainly better than US 5eyes, and Prism that spied on everyone illegally & unknowingly for political & subversion cause. Merkel has a good taste of what its like of been US/Obama best ally when Snowden told her cell phone was wiretapped, with a refusal of pact to mutually non spying that 5eyes gang had. German might is afterall, most fear by AngloSaxon.

    A sharp knife is always useful in good cook hand, and should not be banned because some murderers like CIA are using one. I would expect my country to have one imported from China soon to further boost its already global lowest crime rate in midst of terrorism threat.

  111. myself says:
    @Rdm

    Should Chinese be happy or sad that their country still has the high skill labor back home?

    The answer is of course: HAPPY. ECSTATIC.

    China needs and wants all their smart skilled people at home. They are building modern China as we speak.

    Why would any country want their smart people to go abroad? If a country can provide opportunity, and China surely can, Chinese will stay in China.

  112. TT says:
    @Chris Mallory

    Offer them a free air ticket to return, christ. many Asians will rush to take up volunteerily without deportation when US further collapse with exudes of most productive & least crimes wealthy Asians, leaving all the poor black Africans, Mexican, Latinos, Indians & Muslims refugees for you. A thousand caravan of Latinos are awaiting your welcome party at border, go now.

  113. TT says:
    @songbird

    Something is very wrong when a white can’t do the most decent right thing in their white majority country. The US is too sick with its hypocrite crave for obscene diversity, equality, and foolish feminism with that perverted LBGT glorification.

    Merit based & majority rights is right system practise by China & East Asians for prosperity growth.

  114. @Thomm

    I doubt she’s too crazy about sad little hindoos either.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  115. myself says:
    @songbird

    If I were black, I would have elbowed my way inside the crowd and then grabbed the megaphone, and then had the time of my life watching them squirm, as I told them I was trying to study, so I could work my way out of the ghetto

    Yeah, black people should do stuff like that. It would be cool to watch the confusion on the faces of those “activists” as one of their protected “victims” points out their absolute hypocrisy.

    It’s never about the purported cause. It’s always about the protesters and their own self-proclaimed virtue. Newsflash: Shouting that you’re a martyred saint all day doesn’t actually make you one!

  116. TT says:
    @Rdm

    China now provide the world best attractive opportunities for every entrepreneurs aspire to be successful in something. Who will leave for a declining US if they need not to?

    You heard of Sea turtles returning program? China gov even embark a incentive program to attract the best Chinese talents back, including overseas Chinese diaspora. Many Taiwanese & Hongkies, Asia Chinese ethnics are flocking to mainland now.

    Others are learning Mandarin diligently now, including those anti-Chinese leaders, Trumps granddaughter, Malaysia PM Najib children, Oz Turnbull family, a long list.

    The tide is rolling back in a roar.

    Indian & Mexican will want to get out to anywhere if they could, its pure shitholes back home with poverty, corruption & crimes, no future except for the privilege oligarchs & criminals. Go visit yourself.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    , @Anon
  117. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jameson

    Indeed the figures are plucked out of the air. You should consider how that affects your arguments. Just take the presumed aversge IQ of 100 and standard deviation of 15.

    Only 16 per cent would have IQs above 115 and that won’t get you into a top university for most people. It wouldn’t make you competitive as counsel in a superior court. Etc.

  118. Yan Shen says:
    @TT

    http://www.ecns.cn/2018/04-08/298317.shtml

    However, according to the latest statistics published by the Ministry of Education, about 540,000 Chinese went to study overseas in 2016, with about 430,000 returning. Compared to 2011, 2016 saw a 37.61 percent increase in the number of Chinese studying abroad and a 56.95 percent increase in returnees.

    “In my opinion, China has more opportunities than the U.S. regarding new technology,” said Lei, the postdoctoral scholar who got his bachelor’s and doctoral degrees at Stanford under the “Thousand Talents Plan”.

    “In the past few years, I’ve been working on a research project that is based on a novel graphitic carbon material with an ultrahigh surface area,” said Lei, who studies organic electronic-device fabrication.

    “An extremely large and often still growing share of electronic and technology supply chains are anchored in China.

    “Thus, China is the best place to get my project into production with strong government support for innovation and research and more opportunities for investment.”

    • Replies: @TT
  119. @James Forrestal

    Thanks. I’ll stand by my enthusiasm for the smart and entertaining British imperialist the Earl of Beaconsfield

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  120. Thomm says:
    @silviosilver

    What does that have to do with anything?

    The fact remains, bottom-20% whites are a defective subrace that really has nothing in common with normal whites. The men of this defective subrace become WN wiggers, and the women become fat bluehaired fattie feminists. This bottom 20% is really just waste matter.

    Sux to be you..

    Get off my lawn, faggot!

    Heh heh heh heh

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  121. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @TT

    You should get a pay rise for your diligence if only you can improve your English. It will be 20 years before not being able to speak Mandarin puts one at the same disadvantage as someone who can’t speak English today. Meantime poor English is a waste of time if you want to persuade anyone.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @ANON
  122. FKA Max says: • Website

    For instance, after accounting for potential self-selection biases by randomly assigning students to control and treatment groups, “the effect of commercial test preparation has appeared relatively small. A comprehensive 1999 study by Don Powers and Don Rock published in the Journal of Educational Measurement estimated a coaching effect on the math section somewhere between 13 and 18 points, and an effect on the verbal section between 6 and 12 points. Powers and Rock concluded that the combined effect of coaching on the SAT I is between 21 and 34 points. Similarly, extensive metanalyses conducted by Betsy Jane Becker in 1990 and by Nan Laird in 1983 found that the typical effect of commercial preparatory courses on the SAT was in the range of 9-25 points on the verbal section, and 15-25 points on the math section.”

    Mr. Shen,

    these figures are somewhat misleading because the races are not separated out. I wrote a long comment on the topic here: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/boost-your-iq/#comment-2078664

    Northeast Asians, on average, boost their SAT scores by ~70 points (whites by about 13 points) through test prep, have the highest participation rates in test prep classes (30% compared to whites’ 10%), plus they usually take the test several times, which is an additional 40 to 50 extra points.

    Results from retesting on the SAT I indicate that 4 percent of students find a score increase of 100 or more points on the verbal or math tests and that, on average, higher-ability students take the SAT two or three times.

    A new study has found that East Asian American students (those whose families come from China, Japan or Korea) are significantly more likely than other Asian Americans and members of all other racial or ethnic groups to take SAT preparation courses, and to benefit from such extra coaching.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
  123. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @myself

    Surely your figures are way out.

    As Jameson says of his reply the figures are plucked out of the air. You should consider how that affects your arguments.

    Just take the presumed average IQ of 100 and standard deviation of 15.

    Only 16 per cent would have IQs above 115 and that won’t get you into a top university for most people. It wouldn’t make you competitive as counsel in a superior court. Etc.

  124. Yan Shen says:
    @FKA Max

    These numbers don’t account for the issue of self selection right since I assume they just look at people who retested and prepped voluntarily? Your bolded comment suggests that higher ability students are more likely to retest.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  125. LKM says:
    @nebulafox

    Or having to study at all, for anything, I could add. Working hard disproves you are “smart” in our cult of genius laden culture. This attitude is very common among whites, too, needless to say. Personal experience with it, unfortunately…

    I couldn’t agree with this more. As someone of western European descent living in North America, as much as I appreciate the gifts my culture has given me, and indeed the world, this part absolutely has to be eradicated as soon as possible.

    Look at the detective/savant archetype exemplified by the TV/movie versions of Sherlock Holmes, Rust Cohle from True Detective and countless other characters. These characters seem to have an epiphany every fifteen minutes or so without any apparent effort. This is how our society thinks genius works. No blood. No sweat. No tears. Just pure results.

    Or just try telling someone in North America or Western Europe that you like math. Ninety percent of the time, they’ll look at you like you’re from a different planet. They’ll often say something to the effect of “I’m not a math person”. Really? Well, up until the age of five or six, you weren’t a reading or writing person, but you seem to have figured that out just fine. Western European-derived cultures seem to have this mental block about math, as if it’s a skill that can’t possibly be cultivated or improved and that having to expend any effort to understand it means you’re hopeless at it or doing something wrong.

    Look, I understand that at a very important level, we’re all limited by the amount of genetically-determined mental horsepower we have under our hoods. No amount of practice is going to turn me into a math professor, just as no amount of practice is going to turn a math professor into Gauss. But that doesn’t mean you can’t do a huge amount to improve yourself in this regard.

    Based on my (somewhat limited) experience, East Asians seem to have figured this out, as have Central and Eastern Europeans, at least among their very high-end students. I don’t know about the Indian subcontinent. But as quantitative skills become more and more important, it’s imperative that our countries figure this out.

  126. Anonym says:
    @James Forrestal

    Thanks for making Duncan’s point explicit.

    From the author:

    One of the more disappointing revelations in my opinion has been the extraordinary ambivalence of many right-wing whites towards clear anti-Asian discrimination in this country. On various alt-right blogs where themes such as race realism and affirmative action are often discussed, when it comes to the issue of Asian Americans and meritocracy, many right-wing whites seemingly abandon their principles whole. Thus, while these individuals formerly denounced discrimination against whites in favor of blacks and Hispanics, we all of a sudden hear that Asian American academic success is merely the result of cheating and gaming the system. Some also suggest that colleges should take into consideration non-academic factors such as maintaining a certain campus culture or favoring those who might be more likely to donate to the school as alumni.

    When there exists race replacement colonialist policies in the Eurosphere to the detriment of whites and simultaneously East Asia for the East Asians in East Asia, it is not very surprising that he sees ambivalence by rightist whites if not outright antipathy.

  127. anonymous[119] • Disclaimer says:

    Western European-derived cultures seem to have this mental block about math

    If you look at this chart of PISA Math scores in 2015, Western Europe actually doesn’t do that badly:

    https://data.oecd.org/pisa/mathematics-performance-pisa.htm

    Among the poorest performing are the Latin American countries, Indonesia, the middle east (Turkey, Israel, Greece) & the US. Most Western European countries actually do better than Eastern European countries.

  128. Anonymous[220] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yan Shen

    Yes, I’m sure when ThreeCranes is snipping off your fingers with a garden pruner, you just need to say “I am an American!” and he will stop. Or when Chris Mallory is shooting up your children, you can just explain how you have a passport, maybe he’ll decide that some of them are messed up too much by the rifle bullets and suddenly realize a better way.

  129. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Yan Shen

    I am not sure self-selection is an important factor to take into consideration in this in-between race differences context. I think what the participation rate and test score gain in-between race differentials illustrate well is the degree of motivation for each ethnic group, and undoubtedly Northeast Asians are the most motivated group (i.e. “Tiger parenting”, etc.), and interestingly whites seem to be the least motivated/ambitious group, on average.

    Your bolded comment suggests that higher ability students are more likely to retest.

    It appears that way, but I am not entirely sure. When you look at the figures it suggests that both the lowest and highest ability students are the most likely to retest five times, for example. I think taking the test several times over could be an indicator of higher socio-economic status, due the costs involved, time-wise and financially, in taking the test multiple times.

    Report: Asian-American tech workers absent from Silicon Valley’s executive suites

    Report co-author Janet Wong, a retired partner of auditing firm KPMG, said her Chinese-American upbringing taught her that “studying hard, getting good grades was all I needed to be successful.”

    But then she watched as colleagues, especially white men, eased up the management ladder and she fell behind.

    “I would say, ‘I don’t have time to go to lunch, I don’t have time to get drinks, because I have to get my work done.’ But then I realized I needed to do other things,” Wong said. “I realized the soft skills were also important, building relationships.”

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/05/05/report-asian-american-tech-workers-absent-from-silicon-valleys-executive-suites/

    Strict Asian Parents react to 770/800 SAT II score

    This Northeast Asian girl was told by her parents to take the SAT two additional times after she did not perform satisfactorily enough, according to her father/parents, on her second try, for example. Her family seems fairly well-off:

    Strict Asians Parents on perfect test scores

    • Replies: @res
    , @Ju Ahn
    , @FKA Max
  130. @MEH 0910

    And I thought all Chinese looked alike …

  131. Kingfelix says:

    The three sections of this article don’t cohere. What has the white American need for self-esteem to do with an analysis of Asian American SAT scores? And what do both of them have to do with the conclusion?

  132. Tyrion 2 says:
    @TT

    Only the top few percent earners in China could possibly afford US Universities. China is not a rich country. The average Chinese earns like the average Botswanan.

    Only 8% of children in the UK go to private schools. This is largely because such schools are expensive. Those children perform far, far above the average.

    The Chinese that go to the West do too for exactly the same reasons, obviously. A kind commenter above even posted the stats to prove it.

    • Replies: @TT
  133. Tyrion 2 says:
    @myself

    But they aren’t the very best of the best. They aren’t the top quartile (top 25%) of their populations,

    You think any Chinese outside of that quartile could even think of affording US univerities?

    Plus flights, test prep, better English tuition…

    You, like seemingly all of the commenters here, know nothing about China.

  134. @RJJCDA

    Your Vietnam anecdotes are fascinating. Thank you for your service.

  135. Ju Ahn says:

    In response to Comment #124:

    Generally larger gains from similar preparations indicate higher IQ. However, In this case Hispanics and blacks also had larger gains than white population through test prep. (You could also say East Asians on average spent more time studying SAT than other groups since all we know is whether a student took a prep course or not.)

    I believe the real reason Asians and Hispanics have higher gains from SAT prep is the inherent language barrier many from both groups experience in the US. For people with limited exposure in English language, even some SAT prep in verbal could be an immense help in their performance. It also makes sense Eastern Asian people have higher gains than other Asians as other Asians including Indian, Vietnamese, Filipino people are generally better at English (either from their native education of higher density of people born in the US) than Eastern Asians (Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans) as larger percentage of students from these groups are 1st generation. It also makes sense Hispanics have higher gains than whites and black people since higher percentage of Hispanic students are immigrants.

    I’m curious to see how much students gained through prep in verbal as opposed to math portion of the SAT.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
  136. TT says:
    @Yan Shen

    If im not retired, vibrant China will be my first choice of work & biz, not US with its dilapidated infra structures that make me scratch my barrels. My brother is enjoying his life doing biz in China(not so much about $ but its vibrancy), soon my sister family will go over too for never ending huge projects you will not find in declining aging West or Jp anymore.


    American Indians seem getting quite high scores at 3rd ranking.

    It’s also well known that the aggregate Asian American category lumps together various groups such as East Asians, South Asians, Southeast Asians, and Pacific Islanders. Presumably the former two groups generally tend to outperform the latter two academically. One piece of evidence for this, apart from adhering to the assumptions underlying HBD, lies in the results of the California Achievement Test. Data from the blog humanvarieties.org shows that Chinese and Korean Americans outperformed Cambodian and Laotian Americans by about 1 SD over the years 2003-2008 on the CAT.[20]

    Already Asian murkans has a 60pts over Whites, without lumping what can be actual Chinese & Korean scores over whites like? That’s gonna scare everyone like Spore ex-PM Lee Kuan Yew who like to frighten each US Potus & elite congressmen who eagerly seek his advice:

    “We are only the descendants of poor peasants of China. The true elites are in China(some in Taiwan). What we can achieved, they can do many times better.”

    And today Spore is No3 in GDP(ppp) with highest SAT/IQ scores(even after been drag down by 25% minority of less performing Malays & Indians who seldom make it to uni).

    China is sending numerous low & mid levels officials to study & train in Spore to learn how it governs over last 30yrs. They are duplicating the successful factors with own wisdoms, outperforming in many areas like infrastructures, cashless society, AI automation, R&D, mfg, etc.

    With China 1.4B people, vast land & resources that awed a tiny Spore island of nothing except 5Mil people, it can duplicate easily 200 or more Spore/HK city, equivalent to 200 times of 300+Bil GDP with integrated advantage & huge domestic market. That’s a realistic future 60T economy body forecasted on a conservative end.

  137. I like what the Buddha said:

    4. Then the Exalted One, realizing the turn their discussion had taken, entered the pavilion, sat down on the prepared seat, and addressed the bhikkhus: “What kind of discussion were you holding just now, bhikkhus? What was the subject of your conversation?”

    The bhikkhus replied: “When dawn had broken, Lord, after rising we assembled in the pavilion. As we sat here, the following conversation sprang up among us: ‘It is wonderful and marvellous friends, how the Exalted One, he who knows and sees, the Worthy One, the perfectly enlightened Buddha, has so thoroughly penetrated the diversity in the dispositions of beings. For this wanderer Suppiya spoke in many ways in dispraise of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha, while his own pupil, the youth Brahmadatta, spoke in many ways in their praise. These two, teacher and pupil, followed closely behind the Exalted One and the company of bhikkhus, making assertions in direct contradiction to each other.’ This, Lord, was the conversation we were having when the Exalted One arrived.”

    5. “If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should not give way to resentment, displeasure, or animosity against them in your heart. For if you were to become angry or upset in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If you were to become angry or upset when others speak in dispraise of us, would you be able to recognize whether their statements are rightly or wrongly spoken?”

    “Certainly not, Lord.”

    “If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: ‘For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.’

    6. “And if, bhikkhus, others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should not give way to jubilation, joy, and exultation in your heart. For if you were to become jubilant, joyful, and exultant in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should acknowledge what is fact as fact, saying: ‘For such and such a reason this is a fact, this is true, there is such a thing in us, this is found among us.’

    The Western mind, imo, finds it difficult to consider their own selves, or situations when they are in the equation, critically and without bias.

  138. TT says:
    @res

    儿子, 一个男子汉要能吃苦.

    “Men must be able to endure hardship”

    Your google translation may means
    男人要能挨苦

    儿子:son

    男子汉 is more than just man(男人). It means manly one, a audacious man.
    吃苦literally means eat bitterness, to bear hardship. A stronger degree than endure, that one simply swallow the hardship.

    So more precisely may be:

    “Son, a audacious man must be able to bear/swallow hardship”

    Yan Shen should do his duty to translate that in his article.

    • Replies: @res
  139. Escher says:
    @anon

    Horrendous driving skills?

    LOL. Anyone who has been stuck at 55mph on I280 or 101 behind one of these guys, or had to brake when one veered across 3 lanes to take an exit would agree.
    Interestingly, their co-ethnics in SE Asia and even many back home in the mainland drive much better.

  140. TT says:
    @Anon

    Pls forgive if my writing is a sore to your eyes, Im retired and has not been writing for last 15yrs. Im sure you can find many of your kins & average Britons or Americans write much poorer English informally.

    Moreover i read/write two non native languages with sufficient level for conducting global business & work with IP legal document, spoke several languages. Such diversity make me a half filled bucket sometimes in various languages compare to monolithic English native speaker like you.

    You can wait for 20yrs later to learn your Mandarin, its not my concern. I only find pity that our younger generation has foolishly not master Mandarin to stay fluent in English because of ostrichized by USglish slang speaking supremacy people. They will find great disadvantage in 10yrs time with China rapid ascending & wallow in declining West.

    Im writing in standard old Cambridge English if you are aware, a simple but lengthy naggy one not so adaptable for short comment, but vgood for international formal usage & Engineering R&D reporting due to its simplisticity.

  141. Rdm says:
    @songbird

    C’mon

    White guys been doing this for a long time.

    • Replies: @Truth
  142. @J.Ross

    “add Chinese to the languages list.”

    That helps. I should have guessed that it was Chinese characters, but I didn’t.

  143. res says:
    @Rdm

    Are you implying that

    The points I was trying to make are:
    1. Chinese emigration is highly selective by skill but relatively small in proportion to the number of people in China.
    2. Indian emigration is even more selective by skill (about 2x China, appears to be even more so when looking at the US only).
    3. Mexico has a much higher emigration rate and is actually a bit selective for low skill emigrants.

    I measure selectivity by skill by dividing the high skill by the low skill emigration rates (China 14, India 35, Mexico 0.68). Brain drain is better measured (roughly, there are more sophisticated techniques) by the high skill emigration rate by itself.

    There is a research literature based on this data if you are interested in more detail.

  144. res says:
    @FKA Max

    Strict Asians Parents on perfect test scores

    They are lucky the SAT was “recentered” in 1995. Imagine how stressed those tiger cubs would be if there were still only a total of about 10 perfect SAT scores per year in the entire US.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    , @FKA Max
  145. TT says:
    @Tyrion 2

    You make me LOL. This reveal your deficient understanding of China, or even Asia. Go asked any luxury supercar or property salesman to enlighten you. When White/Chinese/Asian walk in, what does it mean to them? Ask UK, who is their biggest spending tourists that empty their luxury boutiques.

    1. China rich is obscenely rich, plenty in number, undeclared, like other Asia countries. Once they get into Forbes list, taxman visit him.

    2. Chinese dislike to let their only child to live apart, esp in crime infested US. Many have got into trouble. Local expensive international school & uni is very much prefer. Some parents prefer Spore for its safety, so they buy up $20M villa & let their children drive a $3M spider Ferrari there.

    3. Chinese & Asian put children education very high in priority, they will take out huge loan to send them abroad. Many i know spend up to US$500k for their children to study overseas bcos they failed to get into local uni. That may be unimaginable for you, to Asians its worth while.

    Becos you have never travel out of your cocoon state so you don’t understand Asia living standard, a shoebox apartment in Beijing or Shanghai city, Spore, HK, easily cost multi $millions. Their road is filled with luxury cars causing hundreds of thousands.

    Google yourself. US is no longer a expensive place to live in, Spore, HK, Beijing & Shanghai probably the most expensive cities.

    In time, we might see Chinese not bother to visit dilapidated US & West anymore. We will visit them instead to get wow.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  146. res says:
    @TT

    Thanks. An idiomatic translation by a native speaker beats Google translate. But IMHO the latter is surprisingly good these days.

  147. Truth says:
    @Rdm

    The funny thing about that is, he is trying to be funny and get views, but most white Americans overseas act about 70% like that without even trying.

  148. jim jones says:
    @Yan Shen

    I have some Chinese neighbours and the husband has the name “William”, when I see him on the street I shout out “Laowai”.

  149. Tyrion 2 says:
    @TT

    Idiot meet reality. China sits one place below war-torn Iraq and a long way under coastless, tribal backwater Botswana.

    China is very much a third world country and the people you refer to are as representative of China as Mobutu was of Zaire. He also had a lot of money.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

  150. Here’s my feedback: make it shorter and more focused, please!
    (Sorry I couldn’t read the whole article, let alone the 140 comments)

    There’s a lot of interesting stuff to be said here.

    But the style of the article is meandering (don’t know if it’s intentionally an Asian style of writing, I have some vague notion that Japanese essay-writing is meandering on purpose, dunno about Chinese, or Chinese-American if there is a style for that. For what it’s worth the French style of essay writing is also vague and meandering).

    I’d recommend, Steve Sailer-style, to distill just one of the insights of this loooong article into an article of just a few pithy paragraphs.

    For example, an awesome topic would be: how does it feel to be an Asian subjected to mandatory diversity training that assumes the world is white, black, and Hispanic, with the additional irony that it happens in a context where Asians may well be a majority of sorts.

    Another topic would be, “the talk”, Asian-style. I mean East-Asian style…

    Another topic would be the insanity of grouping some vastly different population groups under “Asian”. If we’re going to have a “Pacific Islander” category, can we please distinguish East Asian from uh, what’s it called, subcontinental Asian? Yellow vs. brown. There’s also another category, which would be non-East Asian, like Filipino, Thai, Laotian, Indonesian, Malaysian, etc.

    Another topic would be, “East Asian values the only way to save America”. Good luck with that one. East Asian values are admirable in many ways, and East Asian societies have many qualities worth trying to emulate, but there’s something ridiculous about your proposition as stated. Hey, I suppose it’s fair game, after Westerners spent so much effort trying to make everyone Christians in their image, but come on, to each his own, no? Plus the idea that East Asians from homogeneous societies have something to teach us about how to make diverse societies work… I dunno about that… Hey all ideas are welcome, but how about a little humility?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  151. INFOCAT says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    @Daniel Chieh

    A ridiculous comment. Successful homogenous nation states abound in the 21th century. Even without the insane monetary regime in Japan which is entirely a problem of their own making.

    Heck, simply select out Maine, New Hampshire or Oregon from the US prison and it’s a perfectly functional state with just a couple import substitutions.

    Your racial hatred is plainly on display and increasingly visible to more and more whites.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  152. @Tyrion 2

    What an incredible fantasy world you live in. Please share more details.

    FYI, while there is indeed a lot of poverty, the tier one cities are all first world and that’s a substantial percentage of the population. Inequality may be an issue but your comments are just hilarious in how far they are from reality.

    Heck TT himself is a Chinese expat living well in SEA countries. Does he seem like a super elite? Sheesh.

  153. anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yan Shen

    Well I’ve probably stated this at least 100 times by now, but I’m obviously an American. I have US citizenship, a US passport, and pretty much anything else legally that would identify me as a citizen of this country.

    Just because you have an American passport does not make you an American. If you think of yourself as a “Chinese-American”, you are Chinese, not American. It is quite clear from all your posts that your loyalty lies with China, not America. You are endlessly obsessed with being a Chinese living in America, not an American living in America.

    Other signs you are not yet an American – your Chinese name, your constant use of Chinese characters in your posts, you probably speak Chinese at home, and eat Chinese food everyday. Who are you kidding? You are Chinese to the end, not an American. You should really consider going back to China, it’s where you belong.

    • Replies: @Rdm
    , @Ju Ahn
  154. Ron Unz says:
    @Tyrion 2

    China is very much a third world country and the people you refer to are as representative of China as Mobutu was of Zaire. He also had a lot of money.

    I hate to say this, but you seem *extremely* ignorant of the reality of modern China…

    Here are links to a couple of my own major articles from a few years ago that you might want to consider reading:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    I think the national trajectories I discussed have pretty much continued in the years since then. My guess is that the standard of living of the average urban Chinese is now roughly comparable to that of the bottom half (or perhaps bottom one-third) of the U.S. population, representing the most rapid economic rise of a large country in the entire history of the human species.

    Furthermore, if/when the U.S. dollar finally collapses, America’s current standard of living will surely collapse with it…

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    , @Dave Pinsen
  155. @INFOCAT

    Hate? Lol. Do you hate flat earthers and timecube believers? I don’t. I wish you every luck in your purple unicorn world.

  156. Rdm says:
    @anonymous

    Your comment is a typical Yahoo comment, appears genuine on surface, but won’t fly in the face of many reality that surrounds what’s supposed to be called ‘American.’

    1. Stephen Colbert still occasionally drops his French root. Why not ask him if he’s still French or American?

    2. Leonardo Dicaprio has German root. In 2010 FIFA world cup, he flew to South Africa and watched German Vs Argentina. Ask him which team he supports.

    3. Glenn Beck still uses his German root in his diarrhea talk. Is he American?

    Your limited definition of “If you’re xxx-American, you’re not American.” doesn’t bode well with so-called true blood, White Americans either.

    This is a college Professor, a typical ‘White’ who might as well have been one generation American as the guy in the film.

    The only true American here is Native American.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  157. Gordon says:

    Why aren’t there any footnotes(please forgive me if that question has been asked & answered already)?

  158. Yan Shen says:
    @Ju Ahn

    Interesting point. Generally studies have tended to show that SAT-M is more amenable to prep than SAT-V, but I wonder given the immigrant factor and the fact that East Asians in particular skew towards M, if the opposite isn’t true for East Asians, that prep for them tends to raise SAT-V more so than SAT-M.

    Perhaps FKA Max knows the section-specific breakout of the total aggregate improvement numbers he posted here?

  159. Yan Shen says:
    @res

    Some material that I cut out from this article since it was already getting kind of long was that the 2016 changes to SAT, such as getting rid of obscure vocab words or the likes, seemingly made the test less a measure of innate aptitude and more a reflection of the high school curriculum that students were likely to encounter. Is the SAT therefore now less g-loaded and more amenable to prep?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/new-sat-scores-sow-confusion-over-how-to-tell-a-good-result/2017/09/25/8732abce-a1f5-11e7-ade1-76d061d56efa_story.html?utm_term=.5e5b34c33bb7

    The average score for the high school class of 2017, according to data the College Board released Tuesday, was a combined 1060 out of 1600: 533 for reading and writing, and 527 for math.

    The averages for previous classes, going back a decade, hovered closer to the midpoint of 500 on each portion of the test. But those results came from a different test in a different era, with three separate sections for reading, writing and math, and a maximum score of 2400.

    Brian Keyes, 18, who graduated in June from Wilson High School in the District, said he took the old SAT in fall 2015 and got a combined 1990 on the three sections. He said he took the new version when it debuted in March 2016 and scored 1410.

    So which was better — his first score, averaging roughly 660 per section? Or the second, averaging about 40 points higher?

    The College Board has published a conversion chart allowing for comparisons. It shows that the scores Keyes obtained were almost equivalent. Keyes, who learned that after asking around, said he tried not to stress about it. His attitude: “I’ll try my best. I’m a good student, a hard worker. I’ll be fine wherever I go.” He wound up at the prestigious University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

    https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/higher-ed-brief-sat-concordance.pdf

    The College Board’s own concordance tables make clear that along much of the scoring spectrum an old score of X would be something equivalent to a new score X+30 or so…

    I think East Asians have always been hurt by the relatively low ceiling on the SAT math test. For instance for most of the decade from 2006-2015, I seem to recall that for whites typically an 800 on math or verbal was 99th percentile for each section. For East Asians though, obviously an 800 on SAT-M has a much lower percentile.

    Personally I knew a couple of Chinese American guys who scored like 730-760 on the SAT verbal, maxed out the SAT-M and either qualified for the USAMO or were like a question away from making it their senior year in high school. An aggregate SAT score wouldn’t be particularly useful for psychometric purposes for these types of people…

    • Replies: @res
  160. Ju Ahn says:
    @FKA Max

    There could be many reasons for the lack of Asian executive level workers at the Silicon Valley.

    1. Many Asian Americans are relatively newcomers to the U.S. job market so the representation at the upper level management will be something that will take many years to resolve even when discrimination is currently absent in the job market. Similar reasoning could be made for the lack of women executive level workers.

    2. “I would say, ‘I don’t have time to go to lunch, I don’t have time to get drinks, because I have to get my work done.’ But then I realized I needed to do other things,” Wong said. “I realized the soft skills were also important, building relationships.”

    I don’t think many Asians are naive enough to believe that. I’m pretty sure most Asians are aware networking activities are important to climb corporate ladders. In fact, South Korea and Japan are notoriously known for their corporate culture which requires frequent company meetups after work. This usually involves going out for drink and going to karaoke bars after work. This has been somewhat of a social problem in East Asia and gets media coverage from time to time as many people complain about the lack of family/personal time apart from work.

    There is also inherent problem of tribalism and personal connections among population when talking about fiercely contested positions. Even very social Asians might have more trouble socializing with white executive level workers due to people’s tribal nature than other similarly social or even less social white workers. You can also tell this by the fact that even black and Hispanic people suffer from this since supposedly these groups are better adjusted socially in America than Asian Americans. (Same goes for white women – maybe it’s harder for them to socialize with men without being viewed as sexual objects, thus lack of representation upper level compare to white men)

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  161. Ivy says:

    Yan,
    Somewhat tangential question.
    Do you know of longitudinal or other studies of families or individuals showing multi-generational success on Mandarin or similar exams? That could provide some additional insight for Western observers regarding Chinese culture and educational attainment for a real or perceived. Cognitive elite. For example, do generations of success facilitate higher IQ through various avenues such as selection, any consanguinity or similar potentially explanatory aspects?

  162. FKA Max says: • Website
    @res

    Yup.

    The Dangerous Weight of Expectations
    Why do so many Asian-American students suffer from depression?

    While suicides on college campuses aren’t unique to students of Asian descent, the risk factors surrounding children of immigrant parents are comparatively higher. One 2010 study found that the number of Asian-American students suffering from depression was significantly greater than their Caucasian counterparts. A comprehensive review released in May surveying the risk factors for suicide and depression among Asian-American youth listed concerns over school performance, being subject to bullying, low parental support, and difficulty orientating to American culture as largely responsible for the pervasiveness of suicide and depression within the community. As an Asian-American woman myself, I’ve seen depression and mental-health issues treated with silent shame. When I confessed to my mother that I’d had a bout of depression, she assured me that she wouldn’t tell anyone in our family, that she would keep it a secret.

    https://psmag.com/social-justice/why-the-suicide-rate-is-high-for-asian-college-students

  163. Ju Ahn says:
    @anonymous

    This type of thinking is the exact reason why non-white groups have difficulty calling and accepting America as their own country. For some reason, becoming US citizen is enough to be an American for people like Yan and I must also accept American names, becoming Johns, Michaels, Matthews, Joes like everyone else.

    As long as anti-Asian discrimination exists in the US, every Asian American must also consider their position as an Asian in this country for the mere concern of their survival (getting into universities, being able to secure jobs). This doesn’t stop some of us from also cherishing America as a country of our own as many Asians would support US in a trade war vs China and in many other matters. If you think American as white American people then we do not identify as such. However, we do not think being white is either sufficient nor necessary condition for being an American.

    • Agree: Yan Shen
  164. Yan Shen says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Overall PPP adjusted per capita numbers aren’t as useful for assessing China because

    1) It’s growing at an extremely fast rate compared to most of the countries near it in that ranking. It’ll almost certainly leapfrog a number of those countries in another 10-15 years.

    2) It’s an enormous country of 1.38 billion with a high degree of developmental variability. The first tier cities are most likely close to first world norms already, if not actually there. For instance, Shenzhen, often referred to as the Silicon Valley of China, has a population of 12.5 million and already has a PPP adjusted per capita GDP of over $52,000 and is experiencing something like 8-9% annual GDP growth in recent years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhen

    One of the points that Martin Jacques makes in his book When China Rules the World is how much more quickly East Asian countries have urbanized over the course of the 20th century than their European counterparts did over their respective periods of initial modernization. I think he points out that the South Korean population was 18% urban in 1950 but 80% by 1994. By comparison, the fastest urbanizing modern day European nation he cites is Germany which went from 15% urban in 1850 to something like 49% by 1910.

    This extraordinarily fast rate of change in his mind suggests that in East Asia, oftentimes the past and the present are melded into one distinctive form of East Asian modernity. I think I’ve also heard some people proclaim that in some ways modern day China is simultaneously a first, a second, and a third world country all in one!

    • Replies: @res
    , @Tyrion 2
  165. res says:
    @Yan Shen

    Is the SAT therefore now less g-loaded and more amenable to prep?

    I would not be surprised if that were true. Data would be good. ETS seems to like making major changes to the SAT every decade or so (since 1995). I wish I better understood both the intended and actual effects. Perhaps the best explanation is simply to prevent good comparisons over time.

    I think East Asians have always been hurt by the relatively low ceiling on the SAT math test.

    Agreed. Arguably it was worse pre-1995 when the math ceiling was similar but the verbal ceiling was about 70 points higher.

    Personally I knew a couple of Chinese American guys who scored like 730-760 on the SAT verbal, maxed out the SAT-M and either qualified for the USAMO or were like a question away from making it their senior year in high school.

    Any thoughts on how their college and later results corresponded to that test performance? The best argument against the cheats/grinds stereotype is showing later real world performance.

  166. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Corrections: … *between* race differences … … *between* race differentials

    This is a good article from the NY Times on the topic, which confirms what many other commenters have already pointed out:

    Jennifer Lee, a professor of sociology at Columbia University, says such perceptions of Asian exceptionalism percolate in both liberal and conservative circles, with conservatives using Asian success as a main point in arguing against affirmative-action policies. But that shouldn’t suggest, she says, that other minorities don’t value hard work or education. She argues in “The Asian American Achievement Paradox,” her 2015 book with Min Zhou, that much of Asian-Americans’ educational attainment actually stems from a hyperselective immigration policy: A 2015 census report https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/p20-578.pdf found that a majority of Chinese immigrants have college degrees, a distinction matched by fewer than one-third of Americans as a whole and only 16 percent of the population in China itself.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/magazine/asian-test-prep-centers-offer-parents-exactly-what-they-want-results.html

    Are Chinese Students Smarter than American Ones? | China Uncensored

    Source: http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2095195

    From today’s NY Times:

    How to Disobey Your Tiger Parents, in 14 Easy Steps

    I know a lot about disobeying immigrant tiger parents. I didn’t take the conventional route of becoming a doctor or going into tech, as many Asian parents want.
    [...]
    5. If they get angry — if they start to throw things or talk longingly about the other immigrant kids who are totally superior to you in every way, remember that they are afraid. They are losing power over you. Grow tender in the face of their fear.

    6. Take note of their other worries. All immigrants are afraid of not making it. They’ve washed dishes in restaurants or tended the counter of a gas station. They’ve experienced dislocation, heartsickness and uncertainty. They want to spare you that life. But remember that you can navigate the world in ways unimaginable to them.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/14/opinion/sunday/disobey-your-tiger-parents.html

  167. res says:
    @Yan Shen

    I find it hard to assess how China is doing relative to the first world for a number of reasons.

    - A significant component of urban infrastructure that is at parity or better with the first world.
    - Uncertainty about both the prosperity and quality of living in rural China.
    - Uncertainty about the presence or absence (both rural and urban) of poverty in China.
    - Clearly biased commentary on how China is doing from most sources I see (just look at the comments here!).
    - Uncertainty about how efficient China’s GDP is relative to the first world (the US in particular). Just how much of US GDP is wasted (not improving the overall quality of life and assets–financial and otherwise–of its people)?

    Any further thoughts? Your “I think I’ve also heard some people proclaim that in some ways modern day China is simultaneously a first, a second, and a third world country all in one!” seems apt, but that does not seem very stable.

  168. Ju Ahn says:

    While I do agree that many top Chinese students may elect to remain in China for undergraduate education, I do not agree that US universities are simply relegated to accepting 2nd quartile of Chinese students here. That kind of proposition is quite ridiculous and upon inspecting the list of Putnam Fellows past several years, one could find several Chinese IMO team members from past years.

    2/6 Putnam Fellows in 2017 represented Chinese IMO team
    Jiyang Gao
    Yunkun Zhou (also 2015 and 2016 fellow)

    Other High Finishers from 2017 Putnam
    Lingjie Mei (placed 16-25 in 2017 Putnam)

    Putnam Fellows in other Years (Since 2010)
    Zipei Nie (2012, 2013, 2014)
    Lingfu Zhang (2014)
    Xiaosheng Mu (2009, 2011)

    Many other top scorers with Chinese first names could also be from China but may have failed to make Chinese IMO team.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
  169. anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rdm

    The only true American here is Native American.

    Total BS. Who did they kill when they arrived from across the landbridge from Asia? What’s more they have nothing to do with the country known as USA today. When whites arrived, America was not a country with a government and a border, so the white settlers had as much right to it as the Amerindians. This country is built by white Anglo settlers, they are as much native as those people who called themselves “native American” and claimed they magically sprung from the earth.

    All those people you quoted are big time libtards in the media and academia, we know how they obsess over race and culture. The French are a bunch of halal food eating surrender monkeys, the piss ass country that gave us the Romantic movement led by Jean Jacque Russeau that is taking the West to its doom — you must always do what you feel, feeling trumps all, that’s why we are in this mess today, in fact, that’s what this article is all about, but Yan Shen being the Chinese that he is, cannot stop linking everything to his ethnicity and ethnic pride. That’s why I said he has not yet become an American, regardless of what his passport says.

    The first step to becoming a real American is to stop thinking of yourself in terms of race and class. The Jews could never do that, for 2000 years they insisted on remaining distinct as a tribe, then blame everyone else for not making them feel belonged. Now they are infecting all minorities with this toxic mentality so they are not the only outsiders. Being multi-ethnic does not have to mean multicultural, if those who came later adopt the culture of those already here, blend in and disappear, instead of trying force their cultures on everyone else.

    If you “celebrate your race and culture” if any way, shape or form, you are not an American but just a foreigner and a dumb liberal pawn.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    , @Ju Ahn
    , @Rdm
    , @GammaRay
  170. Ronnie says:

    There is a subtle point of contention that underlies this battle between the Asians and Harvard. At the Ivy league schools the so-called whites also include the Jews. Although Jews are a middle eastern ethnic group and could be defined as non-white, they do not complain about being classified as white. Many of these schools have about 25% Jewish students. Therefore, non-Jewish whites account for very much lower percentages of the available places than is normally reported. So, to be specific, at Harvard there are more Jewish students than Asians or “whites” but Jews are only 2% of the population. This has been the case for more than 60 years. In summary, for reasons which may not entirely be related to meritocracy, Harvard and other Ivy League schools have been selecting Jewish students to fill about 25% of their slots. Finally, Americans are asking why, and the Asians are leading the outrage with the whites not far behind. In my opinion this over-representation of the Jews has unfairly deprived both “whites” and Asian students of places at upper-level universities that they have earned due to their individual merit. When I was at Yale I noticed this immediately but when I raised the issue I was called an antisemite. That was fifty years ago. This is a condition that has been very slow to come under scrutiny. The reasons for this are complex but the outcome has been less than healthy for our society.

  171. anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ju Ahn

    Early German and Nordic immigrants Anglicized both their first and last names to assimilate. It’s time for all newcomers to do the same. No one will ever consider someone named Yan Shen, Muhammad bin Sayaf or Dmitri Sokolov as a real American. The choice is yours. If you don’t change your name, language, accent, adopt the Anglo culture, eat American cuisine, then don’t blame others for treating you like a perpetual foreigner. It takes two to tango. Only a Jew or a black would always put the blame on someone else.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  172. @Thomm

    Lol, you’re sad little hindoo who first went off-topic by ranting about WNs (probably as a way of working out your racial inferiority complexes).

    • Replies: @Thomm
  173. Yan Shen says:
    @anonymous

    The first step to becoming a real American is to stop thinking of yourself in terms of race and class.

    Hahaha. Isn’t one of the foundational tenets of White Nationalism that whites are somehow the only “real” Americans? (And based on comments I’ve seen here it doesn’t even seem to matter if the white person is some Ukranian refugee who recently came over to the US.)

    By contrast, I’ve been one of the few principled people trying to push the point that equating being white with being a real American is just silly and counterproductive at this point.

    I liked Ju Ahn’s formulation. Being white is neither necessary nor sufficient to qualify one as being American. The simple fact of the matter is that the Yan Shens of this country are far more American than the vast majority of whites around the globe ever will be.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @anonymous
    , @J.Ross
  174. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Clyde

    You put me in the position of defending the Red milk poisoners. This is actually a case where the Chinese authorities are correct and in line with our own traditions, and their technology is admirable. The guy was a wanted criminal voluntarily going to a public place: my self-defeatingly generous White reserves of empathy are bone dry for him. It is entirely possible (if vanishingly unlikely) that he could have been nabbed by some cop who recognized his face the old fashioned way.
    Now, kidnapping non-Mainlanders for having dared to think the wrong thoughts is something I can spit on like a Chinese nailpainter all day. But this stadium arrest is a completely admirable accomplishment and not an example of technologically enabled totalitarianism. Let me ask you, do you think they cringe at this story — in Manchester?

  175. Ju Ahn says:
    @anonymous

    Modern humans are speculated to have originated from Africa and spread throughout the world. This make sense since our closest genetic cousins, chimpanzees and gorillas in the wild also inhabit the same continent and no other. So, when Amerindians who are close genetic cousins to East Asians crossed Bering Strait and came to American continent, there were no one else out there. With possible exception of maybe small groups other different tribes of humanoids such as Neanderthals. However, as far as I know, I’m not aware of any other human tribes existing in the new world before Amerindians set foot in the Americas. They were therefore true discoverers to the Americas and no killings in the manner that were perpetrated by Europeans were committed by them.

    Since we, East Asians, are much closer genetic cousins to Amerindians than Europeans Americans, I’d say we have just as much right to be here as white Americans do.

    You also stress Asian Americans gotta stop think in terms of race. However, you’re quick to point out that America was founded by white (!?) settlers, and the culture needs to be centered around anglo white culture. Maybe if you stop focusing on white Anglo Saxon tradition and try to assimilate all others to your standards, Asians and other groups will do the same.

  176. Thomm says:
    @Yan Shen

    Isn’t one of the foundational tenets of White Nationalism that whites are somehow the only “real” Americans?

    That is right. That is why they are completely unconnected to the values found in most Americans, and are entirely unwelcome in polite society. The majority of white Americans are not racists and have no opposition to skilled, legal immigration by law-abiding people.

    Successful whites simply want nothing to do with WNs. White women of any quality REALLY want nothing to do with WNs. Most WN gatherings are 99% male (specifically bottom-tier males).

    White Nationalists have far more in common with blacks than with normal whites. That is why various epithets for WNs indicate this.

  177. Thomm says:
    @silviosilver

    BTW, I see you are enjoying the song I made for you WNs. Like a typical WN, you use something made by others, without expressing gratitude for something you could not make yourself.

    The song is here :

    http://www.unz.com/article/kevin-williamson-firing-shows-conservatism-inc-has-triangulated-itself-into-irrelevance/#comment-2282709

    You are actually stupid enough to think an Indian would know this much about American pop culture from the 80s.

    Heh heh heh heh….the joke’s on you.

  178. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    Good points.

    There is probably also a national security element to it.

    So, maybe, the reason Palantir gets 85% of its job applications for software engineer from Asians but only hires 44% Asian has something to do with, I don’t know, Chinese espionage?

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/obama-admin-sues-cia-funded-palantir-for-only-hiring-44-asians/#p_1_20:1-31

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  179. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Weather modification? Is this real? Sounds kooky.

  180. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    What gun do you own? None of the people who are here to get rich should feel welcome. None of the people who just got here but want our foundational law extinguished should talk. If “cherishing” America means anything other than the brainless and jealous embrace of the flowering of English common law tradition in the Constitution and clear Founders’ intent, then you can keep your two dollar Hallmark card. All our success comes from our unique legal philosophy. Once that is abrogated and erased by Manic Panic haired Mao admirers with trust funds, there will be nothing to cherish.
    That said, imagine if I were a newcomer intent on becoming a permanent resident in Shanghai. Imagine my name is Sviatoslav Kirillovich Szczpanski-Khleb. Imagine that I am militant that it be pronounced correctly every single time, even in interactions where the entire rest of the conversation is in Mandarin.

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
  181. Yan Shen says:
    @Ju Ahn

    Well now that you mention that, it reminded me of a thread a while ago on infoproc that touched upon the same topic, specifically the issue of East Asian American over-representation on USAMO/IMO/Putnam.

    http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2011/12/finding-next-einstein.html

    Are you the same Ju Hyung Ahn from the thread? Interestingly enough both our good host Ron Unz and some guy named Sineruse seemed to have been active participants there as well.

    I think the conclusion was that after weeding out foreign born East Asians who had parachuted into the US after graduating from high school in East Asia, East Asian “Americans” were only something like 6x over-represented among Putnam Fellows rather than 20x.

    I think overall though, despite some obvious outliers, the Chinese who come over for undergrad generally tend to be weaker than the Chinese who come over for graduate school, i.e the latter group tends to be those who graduated from a top undergrad school in China whereas the former seems to be more people who couldn’t hack the gaokao in China. Definitely agree that suggesting that we’re only getting the 2nd quartile of Chinese in America is way off.

  182. Ju Ahn says:
    @J.Ross

    I do not get your point. Not every Asian people support abolishment of 2nd amendment or other gun rights. I do not see in any way Asian groups are trying to destroy foundational laws of the U.S. (the Constitution). As far as I know, East Asians don’t have much religious interests and don’t put forth any religious doctrines here. We also do not push for strong open border policies and ask for handouts.

    East Asians simply want to do away with discriminatory practices in workplaces and universities, and compete in U.S. market squarely and fairly through education and trade in accordance with the U.S. laws. So who is in fact more American here, Asian American people for diligently working to make living in the U.S. while simultaneously working to bring U.S. to less discriminatory place as per founding principles of this country or WN people who wants to perpetuate these same un-American discriminatory practices for their best interests.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @J.Ross
  183. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Vanity Fair just published an article on this:

    Spies and corporate espionage are a fixture of Silicon Valley. Employees at companies from Twitter to SpaceX have privately told me they suspect spooks work within their walls, stealing corporate secrets, plans for new technologies, or entire servers full of code to replicate back home. Some have suspected that these alleged agents were trying to figure out how their company’s network worked. The C.E.O. of one of the big tech companies in Silicon Valley once confided in me that not only was there “no question” that Russian and Chinese agents worked at the company, but that it was impossible to know who they were or prove that they were indeed foreign agents.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/04/inside-silicon-valleys-spy-wars

  184. Rdm says:
    @anonymous

    Your argument is as weak as White Nationalism.

    As I said, Stephen Colbert never bash his ancestral homeland. Neither did Glenn Beck.

    What about Adam Carolla podcaster with Hungarian origin? Did he bash talk about his ancestral homeland?

    If you’re looking for a true blue White American, ask yourself first, where your grandfather and grandmother came from?

    This thanksgiving, go and pay a visit, ask if their homeland countries were shitty back then.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  185. Rdm says:
    @anonymous

    So David was so American?
    What about Adam?

    Ugh… Anglo Pride.

  186. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Stogumber

    If East Asians are so good, why ever do they so much cheating and gaming in tests?

    It no easy learn english.

  187. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    The only point at which I paused for disagreement with this excellent article was where it implied approval for the view that giving up volleyball because you were no good at it was a bad idea.

    I no think Yan mean, if you no good play volleyball, you try to be best. I think he mean, if you not best at something, if you work hard, you become better. Most people no good at math. But if they study, they do good enough and pass test and go better school.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  188. anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yan Shen

    Do the “White Nationalists” talk endlessly about their Franco-German roots? Benelux superiority? Alpine values? British heritage? Nordic supremacy? No. The majority of whites in this country do not talk about their European “heritage”, in fact, except for libtards most whites in America today talk about Europe with nothing but disdain for their socialism and meekness over Muslim invasion.

    Meanwhile, hispanics talk endlessly about Mexican pride, Jews obsess endlessly about their superior IQ and support for Israel, blacks talk endlessly about slavery, racism and black pride, Asians like you talk endlessly about Asian values, Asian superiority. And then you blame whites for not treating you as real Americans. As I said, it takes two to tango. Putting the blame on everyone else without looking yourself in the mirror is a trait of the Jews and the blacks.

    Also, I find it ironic that while you rail against the liberals whose promotion of self-esteem you disdain, you simultaneously embrace the identity politics that are promoted by these very same people to boost your own self-esteem. Cognitive dissonance is a trait of the brain dead left.

    And for Pete’s sake stop posting that stupid video. Everyone here is sick of seeing it posted by you ad nauseam.

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
  189. anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ju Ahn

    I wouldn’t get too hung up on that whole “All humans originated from Africa” theory if I were you. The latest findings are already putting that theory to serious doubt.

    You had as much right to be here before 1776, before America was established as a country, by Anglo-Saxons. Most Asians today arrived after 1980, when this country was already built into a superpower by whites, or else they wouldn’t be here. Your citizenship is a privilege not a right. Be appreciative of the gift of citizenship extended to you out of the kindness of those whose ancestors built this country. Love this country with all your heart, be loyal to her and no other country. Work hard, be law abiding and civic minded. Quit whining and making constant demands of how you want to be treated. If America is treating you so badly, you are always free to leave.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @ANON
    , @Yan Shen
  190. @Anon

    Maybe. But my short answer is that mathematics is worth the extra effort but volleyball is unlikely to be. As so often the key concept for clear thinking is Opportunity Cost.

  191. Ju Ahn says:
    @anonymous

    I’ve seen plenty of Nordicists on WN forums. As well as people praising their Germanic roots and such. Also people frequently talk about America’s Anglo Saxon origin and their superiority dating back to British Empires. They also talk about Greece and Ancient Rome and also like to take credit for every single human ingenuity. Even things they did not invent like gunpowder and metal movable types (invented in Europe by Gutenberg but invented in East Asia at least two centuries in advance).

    I haven’t met many Asians who talks about stuff like Asian superiority in public either. Most stuff I read are from white writers who likes to use Asian success in U.S. for their political reasons.

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  192. Thomm says:
    @Rdm

    Remember that the typical WN wigger in the US doesn’t even know that his ancestors came from Europe. He (it is always a he) also can’t really identify the continents on a map.

    White Trashionalists have Negro IQs (actually even lower than that).

    There is much less to White Trashionalism than meets the eye.

  193. ANON[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Did you study engineering at Cambridge University? Are you a graduate of Cambridge? I ask because that is what I understand is implied in your last comment. If so, how long after Lee Kwan Yew were you at Cambridge (he was there with an old – and much older – friend of mine and I always admired him).

  194. Anon[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Is your citizenship a privilege rather than a right too?

    If not I suppose it is because of your birthright citizenship which would recognise your special merit in achieving your status without effort of any kind other than your mother’s labour – or the obstetric surgeon’s deft slicing and stitching.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  195. Wizard of Oz [AKA "Jeepers"] says:
    @Anon

    Touché – that is to the ANON comment on the chap with the birthright :-)

  196. ANON[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Well bravo. Your citizenship was not a privilege but the right of one whose mother or mother’s obstetric suegeon’s meritorious efforts gave you a right.

  197. TT says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Im late, your utter ignorant had already attracted others attention.

    Kid, try travel out of your state/US to see the real world. Don’t be a frog inside a (water)well looking up at the sky, deriding how small the sky is.

    When Chinese tourist stop visiting Jp or Korea, their tourism face crisis. SKorea largest Duty Free Shop & shopping malls Lotte reported profit drop 99% after Chinese boycott. That how strong is their middle class spending.

    Studying & living in US, a peanut to many millions of Chinese. Even GDP(ppp) No3 Spore is nothing compare to China top cities. Shenzhen has transformed from a village to a city with higher GDP than HK within 20yrs.

    Everytime i visited US, its 1960′s old infrastructure is so glaring dilapidated compared to Asia, esp China.

    You are so much worst than rednecks, at least they are protesting Trumps trade war bcos they know Chinese buy 60% of they farm produce, is world largest luxury goods, car & Boeing market.

    You are still slumbering in 1960′s Amariken dream, awaiting Petro Dollar crash to wake you up to a all new world, lead by most wealthy & powerful China.

  198. Yan Shen says:
    @anonymous

    Love this country with all your heart, be loyal to her and no other country.

    Well since one of the themes of this article was the hypocrisy of the right-wing white-wing, despite their pretensions to fairness and universality, let me call out this little bit of sanctimony as well.

    We’re always hearing alt-right types bemoaning the supposed lack of loyalty of non-whites in this country towards America. Thus Jewish Americans are always accused of dual loyalty to Israel and various people here always assert that my true loyalty lies with China, which is strange given that I’m obviously an American and staunchly a part of team Red, White, and Blue.

    Of course, one of the most curious things about white nationalism is that it actually seems to be fairly lacking in the nationalism arena given that it’s more or less just a form of white racialism. Thus, we always see white nationalist types deeply concerned about various white countries around the globe, no matter how big or small, how near or far. It’s really fascinating seeing so-called loyal American nationalists fretting so incessantly over the fates of countries like Poland or Hungary or Italy or the likes.

    Meanwhile, these same individuals probably could care less about large chunks of their own fellow countrymen. Can someone say chutzpah?

    So really, let’s call out these right-wing whites as well on their dual loyalty. You have to make a choice. You’re either loyal to America and Americans or you’re loyal to white racialism.

    On a somewhat related note, perhaps if I were to change my name from Yan Shen to Ian Shen maybe that’ll placate some of the right-wing whites in these parts of the blogosphere…

    • Agree: GammaRay
    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @James Forrestal
  199. GammaRay says:
    @anonymous

    Total BS. Who did they kill when they arrived from across the landbridge from Asia? What’s more they have nothing to do with the country known as USA today. When whites arrived, America was not a country with a government and a border, so the white settlers had as much right to it as the Amerindians. This country is built by white Anglo settlers, they are as much native as those people who called themselves “native American” and claimed they magically sprung from the earth.

    I disagree with your line of reasoning and find it highly disingenuous, but that being said, if you want to think this way then so be it. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, what comes around goes around. If the white anglo settlers have the right to settle this land “just because”, then immigrants from around the world also have the right to settle this land “just because”, and the sad truth of the matter is that you are in no position to stop it, and you and I both know this. You can whine, moan, say nasty things to people and try to make flimsy moral justifications for why the current state of affairs is unjust (its not), but at the end of the day you are still completely impotent and unable to change anything about the current direction of the west.

    The west went around causing chaos in the world through its colonial misadventures for over five centuries, and as a result of the west forcibly colonizing the rest of the world it inadvertently set up the cultural and territorial networks (nodes if you will) for modern globalization to come into existence. Now people like yourself are only mad because you have to deal with the unexpected consequences of the actions of the people whom you lionize. The predator becomes the prey, the globalizer becomes the globalized and the colonizer becomes the colonized. I find it just deserts that bigoted people such as yourself will get to see your country demographically and culturally transform before your very eyes. But hey, what do I know. I mean if native americans should just get over it (according to you), then why shouldn’t the descendants of the proud white anglo settlers just get over their own displacement as well? Seems pretty consistent to me. Don’t ask for sympathy, understanding or fairness if you are unable to give others the same.

    • Replies: @Antolx
    , @anonymous
    , @JIm243
  200. Thomm says:
    @Yan Shen

    So really, let’s call out these right-wing whites as well on their dual loyalty. You have to make a choice. You’re either loyal to America and Americans or you’re loyal to white racialism.

    On a somewhat related note, perhaps if I were to change my name from Yan Shen to Ian Shen maybe that’ll placate some of the right-wing whites in these parts of the blogosphere…

    They are not right-wing. White Nationalism is a left-wing ideology, since they have very left-wing economic views (as is to be expected of people with no talents of any sort). Their preferred candidate was Bernie Sanders. Adolf Hilter was a statist and big-government redistributionist. The KKK was a Democrat operation.

    Only small-government, free-market ideologies can be considered right-wing (under the US definition).

    • Replies: @Disordered
  201. Thomm says:

    An interesting chart (albeit in PPP, which may be an inferior metric to Nominal GDP) :

    Almost all net growth is by emerging markets in general and China in particular.

    This chart is for the non-WN readers, since WNs are incapable of reading graphs and charts (as we know).

    • Replies: @Disordered
  202. Antolx says:

    agree with everything you say its hard to accept so many talented people that may displace you but i think we should be honest with ourself and accept them in a pure merithocatic way ,if we cant deal with them how we will deal with 1.3 billion chinese that are going to became next the superpower in the world
    we need to see them as a reference and and how we should work to achieve the necesary to not beacame irreleveant in the 21 century
    i say this but the number of inmigration should reduced to zero we could have a deal if those inmigrant are for the reduction of it too or in other way if they see thenself as american first

  203. Antolx says:
    @GammaRay

    like ottomans turks did to greeks
    like turks tribes did to indoeuropeans in central asia
    like arabs did in spain and france if they wouldnt have stopped
    like mongols kill the half of population of europe bringing the black death
    like like china is doing in this moments to tibetans and uighurs
    the west have done too but have brought the world to a new era of better quality of life and more secure existence in the history cry all you want about the west while the rest have behave at least as badly and didnt do anything to improve the situation
    Should all this nation be judged to the same standards as some european countries?should all this countries abandon their right to exist ? i dont think so
    thats for not talking about sweeden ,norwegians eastern europeans…what damage have this people done?

    • Replies: @GammaRay
    , @TT
  204. GammaRay says:
    @Antolx

    Im not making a strictly moral argument against colonization. Furthermore, Im actually making two separate but equally reasonable arguments.

    1.If you want to complain about immigration or multiculturalism then this automatically holds you to a higher ethical standard yourself. IE, you cannot complain about immigration but then turn around and be proud of the fact that your ancestors were (violent) immigrants themselves. The point I am making is not about whether or not colonization is a crime, the point I am making is one of being morally consistent and not being hypocritical. This is a very simple point, but many alt-righters and white nationalist trip over this point, every single time. In fact they trot out the same argument that you are trying to trot out, however this argument is ineffective because its not addressing the heart of the matter, which is the moral inconsistency of the alt-right/white nationalists. The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.

    2.I’m making a practical observation about the situation which the west is facing; I’m not advocating anything which is what you seem to be trying to suggest. Instead of trying to resort to dancing around the topic and arguing abstractions, why don’t you answer my original question for yourself?

    “Is globalization built upon the political and cultural frameworks left behind as a legacy of european colonization?”

    Its a simple yes or no answer. The answer is obviously yes, and this confirms my original point; which is that none of the maladies that the west is currently facing would even exist had the europeans decided not to colonize the entire world. The current problem with globalization, multiculturalism, mass immigration etc etc is entirely a problem of the west’s own making. They have no one to blame but themselves. This is the harsh brutal truth of the matter. The europeans gained entire landmasses due to their colonial adventures but in the same way they gained new problems as well. What I am saying is not a controversial statement, its patently true. You are trying to act as if I’m passing a moral indictment against the entire west, but actually I’m passing a practical one. Whether or not the west has the right to exist is not at the heart of the matter, what is at the heart of the matter is whether or not the west will succumb to the very developments which it itself set into place many centuries ago. In my opinion it will, and I think it is just deserts, but this is not the same as me saying that the west does not have the right to exist. I am merely agreeing with the direction that a pre-existing state of affairs is moving in. Alt-righters and white nationalists know that what I am saying is true on a visceral level, but it is far too damning and indicting for them to fathom the possibility that the west entirely brought this situation on themselves, as a result they can only resort to projecting their problems outwards and trying to blame anyone and everyone but themselves.

    i dont think so thats for not talking about sweeden ,norwegians eastern europeans…what damage have this people done?

    you betray your own ignorance of history and current events by making this argument. I dont know why so many white nationalists/alt-righters try to make this argument when it can be easily debunked with some cursory googling.

    1.Scandinavian countries actually did play a direct role in colonization as well as heavily participating in the intra-european economy that was based upon colonization exploitation. You didn’t know about this?

    2.Why do alt-righters/white nationalists continue to talk about eastern europe being a victim of multiculturalism? Are there even any substantial amount of non-white immigrants in eastern europe? Or are you just erroneously assuming this? Eastern european countries are very loud and very adamant about rejecting multicultural policies, this is factually true. But it is not factually true that eastern european countries are dealing with massive amounts of immigrants like you seem to be implying. Why make this kind of argument when it can be so easily debunked?

    • Replies: @Antolx
    , @James Forrestal
  205. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    un-American discriminatory practices

    Hmmmmm. This sort of thing works in a country where history is whatever the government says. It doesn’t fly here. There is absolutely nothing illegitimate or inconsistent with our traditions in restricting immigration. Especially given an easy, race-neutral ideological test such as I put forward.
    >the real Americans are globalist cubicle slaves who do not believe in God-given rights
    Whatever else happens, that’s not the right answer until you poison our water.
    >white nationalists
    >have an ideological rather than a racial test for nonwhites
    Pretty sure that’s not how that works.
    Nevertheless, you misunderstand me. I invite you to acquire a firearm if you have not already. This is the crystallization of our unique legal philosophy. This and not voting or receiving benefits is the moment you become an American.
    Would I want to put a weapon in your hand if I was an enemy?
    >but white people are stupid and crazy
    No comment.

  206. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Yan Shen

    Since yours was the only reply that even tried to address the basic fact that China lags Iraq and Botswana in production, I’ll reply here.

    The existence of super rich enclaves does not disprove averages.

    The speed of growth is great but now we’re comparing to Botswana.

    The speedy urbanisation is something but China is hardly pioneering industrial development in that respect.

    Overall, I’m very optimistic on China long-term. China has a smart enough and capable population with a sensible nationally minded government.

    But the extremity of the reactions here to my basic statement of undeniable fact is bizarre.

    • Replies: @res
  207. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Although the incident was undoubtedly a source of amusement to many, to me the surreal confrontation highlighted not only just how deeply rotten modern day American culture had become, but also the clear extent to which East Asian and non-East Asian cultural values had diverged in the 21st century.

    Values or strategies? People can have same values or ideology and still have different strategies and habits. So, that incident in the library doesn’t necessarily mean East Asians have different values from what prevails in the West. It could be that they just have different outlooks, styles, and attitudes. Consider German Socialists and ‘Russian’ Socialists. Stalin once remarked that German Socialists tended to be punctual and disciplined. If you take an Italian communist and a German communist, they may have the same ideology and same ‘values’, but they will have different approaches and manners. The Italian communist is more likely to be like the guy in SWEPT AWAY.

    So, there’s no guarantee that difference in cultural norms means ideological divergence. If anything, even though East Asians are less likely to act wild and crazy(due to cultural and genetic factors), they are more likely to become PC and globalist. As diligent students, they will soak up all the PC taught in schools. Is it any wonder that so many Asian academics, journalists, and bureaucrats are pushing Maximum PC? Maybe that Pan guy in California is not the type to scream in a library, but he’s for total censorship in the name of PC.

    http://www.breitbart.com/california/2018/04/04/california-democrat-dr-richard-pan-proposes-fake-news-bill-shut-internet-free-speech-censorship/

    So, it’s very possible that the Asian guy who asked for quietude in the library will become another Pan. After all, if he’s studying so hard, what kind of materials is he reading? Unless it’s math, hard science, or technology, he’s likely to get a lot of PC. Also, much of indoctrination happens outside schools in music, movies, TV, and state-sponsored propaganda like celebration of Homomania. A lot of it happens subliminally by icon-izing certain images and symbols.

    A recent article by Wesley Yang derided the fact that in contemporary American society “therapeutic concepts of harm have metastasized to encompass what we all once understood to be the unavoidable vicissitudes of daily life.” His discussion focused on the increasing sensitivity of millennials, in particular highlighting the fault line separating minorities from whites. In my opinion, equating the problem with the political left misses the heart of the matter entirely. Left-wing political correctness is merely a symptom of the more insidious underlying disease, which as Amy Chua alluded to in her now infamous essay Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior, is the American obsession with self-esteem.

    Both Yang and Yan are missing the point. These easily triggered ‘snowflakes’ were made that way by the System. Therefore, we have to focus on the Power at the center. It is essentially Jewish. Most people, even elite academics, have NO ideas or agency of their own. They are dogs, sheep, and sycophants.
    The fault line that matters is between Jews and white gentiles. Now, most white gentiles don’t feel this way, but Jews do feel this way. Prior to the rise of Alt Right and related movements, I almost never came across hostile views among white gentiles against Jews. Being pro-Jewish and pro-Israel was as American as Apple Pie. Things may be changing with (1) Alt Right and related folks waking up to JQ and (2) white leftists supporting BDS against what is increasingly seen as ‘far-right’ Israel that is cozy with the GOP.

    At any rate, if white gentiles mostly want to welcome Jews as whites who happen to be Jewish, Jews have hostile feelings toward whites. In the past, this was more understandable because of naked discrimination, periodic pogroms, and the Shoah. People may feel fear and hostility when faced with oppression or obsessed with survival. But that was then, this is now. Today, Jews are addicted to supremacist power, and they fear whites not because whites are hostile or ‘antisemitic’ but because whites might wake up to how Jews have gone into supremacist mode and are pulling all sorts of dirty tricks in Wall Street, Las Vegas, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, and etc. If whites were to withdraw support, Jewish supremacism cannot maintain itself. Indeed, what if whites wake up to how US foreign policy has been usurped by Jews to serve Jewish globalist hegemony. Because whites are still the majority, they are the group that Jews fear most. Not because whites are anti-Jewish but COULD become anti-Jewish.
    Jews may be less fearful IF they’d risen in power gradually through a process of being morally vetted. Suppose Jews rose high not only through meritocracy but under moral scrutiny. Suppose the worst kind of Jews had been called out and removed by this process. But because of the Jew Taboo(centered on Shoah and other themes), it became impossible to be critical of any kind of Jewish behavior. So, not only smart decent Jews made it to the top but also nasty vicious lowlife Jews. After all, smarts alone don’t mean a person has character. Surely, Bernie Madoff is much smarter than the average Joe, but his MQ or Moral Quotient is close to zero. And yet, he was allowed to rub shoulders with men of power and privilege. Even though it was obvious he was doing bad stuff, he was left alone and even protected… as long as he functioned as a cash cow for Jewish groups.

    Now, it wouldn’t have been so bad if GOOD Jews called out on BAD Jews, but even the better ones went with tribalism over other considerations. Thus, Jewish Power rose rapidly but without being vetted and filtered of really bad shi*. And this is across so many fields. Just how did that compulsive liar Sabrina Rubin Erderly get a gig at a major publication? She’d been caught lying in college journalism. But the red carpet was rolled out for her, and she wrote a big big lie for ROLLING STONE mag, and then the rest of the media(mostly owned by Jews) decided to push the nasty anti-white message. If not for the internet, maybe the whole fraud would have been covered up or sent down a memory hole.

    [MORE]

    Now, PC has spread far and wide. There is much anti-white vitriol among non-whites and even among ‘goody-good’ whites. But WHO were really behind this? Jews. And why? Because Jews want to paralyze whites with collective ‘guilt’. Non-whites and goody-good-whites(the self-righteous supremacists and vanity-virtue sniffers) may sincerely believe in PC, but they didn’t come up with it. It was injected into them by academia and media that are funded and controlled largely by globalists. And even the character of Leftism has changed over the years in accordance to “Is it good for the Jews?” Notice that class issues are mostly gone from what goes by the label of ‘leftism’ today. Notice that for much of Obama yrs, homo and even tranny issues took front seat and pushed blacks to the back.
    As such, the term ‘leftism’ has no meaning. If something becomes pretty much the opposite of its original meaning, is it still that thing? If Christianity ends up worshiping Satan but still calls itself ‘Christianity’, is it still Christianity? Today’s ‘leftism’ is LINO or Leftism-In-Name-Only. It is just a mental-putty molded in any way by the Glob Powers That Be.

    Anyway, the main reason for anti-white animus of PC is not about historical justice or whatever. It’s about Jewish supremacist need to tame and harness white power into a war horse that can be ridden by the Power of Zion. Just think. If white power is so evil, why are Jewish globalists so insistent on using the US military for attacking nations like Syria? Despite ‘inclusion’ of homos and diversity cult, the US military is still about white generals ordering lots of right-wing white guys with guns. When the US military attacks other nations, it often translates into White Guys with Guns and Bombs killing bushels of Non-Whites. Like in the movie BLACK HAWK DAWN, almost a remake of ZULU, what with heroic white guys fighting like Starship Troopers against hordes of jivers and mofos. Recently, the US military has been causing all sorts of havoc in the Middle East populated with People of Rag. But, do you hear about how ‘racist’ and ‘white supremacist’ this is? Imagine all those white guys with big guns blowing up cities inhabited by non-whites. Apparently, Arab Lives Don’t Matter… unless there is a likely false flag report about how Assad is killing babies with a blend of Clorox and Aunt Jemima yellow cake powder. And notice that NO ONE in the US prog community is calling for anti-war marches against the never-ending US aggression in Middle East and North Africa.

    The fact is most ‘minorities’ have no inherent animus against whites. Now, blacks may be the exception for both inferiorist and superiorist reasons. Blacks do have a bitter history of having lived under whites who said stuff like, “Hey ni**er, go pick me some cotton and fetch me some water.” This made blacks feel inferior. But black animus is also a superiorist contempt for ‘white boy’. Blacks be thinking, “We whup your ass, we shout louder than you, we hump your women, and you be a bunch of fa**oty ass cucks.”

    But most other non-whites have no reason to hate whites. Now, Mexicans have had this resentment thing because ‘gringos’ achieved so much more. You can see the difference between the Anglo and the Mexican in THE WILD BUNCH. Pike Bishop is always planning ahead and trying to figure things out. Mexicans just like to laugh, eat, and party if they got the power. Or, if oppressed, they just hunker down and eat tortillas and show no agency. Even the Mexican bandido is a more childish character, like in TREASURE OF SIERRA MADRE or THEY CALL ME TRINITY. Because Mexicans don’t have leadership qualities, they like to work for ‘gringo’ or Americano. Look at Guillermo the sidekick at Jimmy Kimmel Show. We are told that the US used to be a bad evil society in the past because of its racial stereotypes, but Guillermo is the biggest Mexican stereotype of the silly, squat, childlike, and docile dufusez.

    Anyway, if whites were solidly in charge, Mexicans might feel resentment but no real animus against gringo. Mexicans look up to power, the big hombre. If Mexicans feel more anti-white hatred today, it’s because they feel contempt for weakness. Even as Mexicans resented the Grande Gringo in the past, they also respected him. But now, Mexicans see the Blanco Cuckez and feel nothing but contempt. Also, as they lack intellectual or ideological agency, Mexicans will swallow any crap taught to them by schools. And what do schools teach? A trickle-down version of anti-white vitriol cooked up by Jews.

    As for Asian immigrants, I don’t think there was much anti-white hatred in the past. As with Mexicans, there was surely some resentment and feelings of inferiority. At one time, Big China lost wars to tiny UK. And US clobbered Japan real bad. Still, Asians came to the US because they respected what the Great White Man made. They weren’t coming to play Indians or emulate blacks in Detroit(at least not the parents). But as Asians tend to be docile, teacher-pets, and drones, they mostly went along with whatever was taught them. US media and academia weren’t so anti-white in the past. And Asian-Americans who grew up back then didn’t turn out to be rabid PC tards.
    But many of today’s Asian students are rabid dogs of PC. They may not burn down cities or disrupt libraries… though if a bunch of blacks or ‘radicals’ make a scene, you will always find some yellow dogs following and shouting along because that’s what dogs do.

    But again, who made the media and academia so anti-white? Jews. And what is the main reason for Jewish anti-white vitriol? Jewish moral outrage at the historical crimes of whites? Really? If this is so and if Jews really believe whites must atone for their ‘sins’, why do Jews insist on whites support Wars for Israel in which whites end up killing bushels of non-whites? And why do Jews insist that white Americans support White European Jews in Israel who oppress brown Palestinians?

    Also, if Jews are soooooo outraged by past crimes, why are they easy on Latin-American whites whose ‘crimes’ were much bigger than that of Yanquis? It’s estimated that Spanish and Portuguese arrival in the New World spread diseases that killed 50 million out of 55 million natives. Also, there was much ‘rape’ of native women. Also, Latin American whites brought over many more black slaves. Brazil alone brought 10x the number of slaves that US brought. And it was Anglo-pressure that finally ended the Brazilian slave trade. And Mexico has long been a civilization where whites lorded over natives. The Mexican Civil War was more than twice as long as the American Civil War and over a million people died. But even after the reforms, Mexico has been a white-ruled society. But how do Jews regard white Hispanics? As ‘people of color’. Why is this? Because Jews need them as allies against white Americans.

    So,the real motivating factor of Jewish cult of ‘justice’ is not righting wrongs but securing Jewish supremacist power. Jews know that their supremacist power in the US(thereby the world) depends on whites serving Jews. Whites will serve Jews instead of themselves ONLY IF they remained stigmatized and paralyzed by guilt. Therefore, whites have been led to believe that any sign of White Identity or Interest is ‘white supremacist’. In order for whites to be redeemed, they must serve OTHER peoples. And of course, whites end up serving Jews the most since it’s most lucrative to do so. After all, redemptive whites who serve Jews will get lots of goodies like Joe Biden, Billy Boy Clinton, John McCain the Cuckaine, Marco Rubio the rubber-boy, and etc. After all, what do whites get atoning for their sins by serving Navajo Indians or fat Hawaiian natives who spend all day munching on Doritos and watching TV?

    As for Amy Chua, her book is not about Chinese moms being superior. It’s about the lesson that there is no single foolproof method in parenting. Her method worked with one girl, didn’t work with the other. Also, upon visiting China, she remarked that Chinese students there lack something American students have and vice versa. At any rate, the Chinese system is hardly better. It’s all about robotic mania for tests and good schools. Does anyone in Asia study to learn and to think? No, they only see education as ticket to career and status.
    Now, this is also true in the West, but it seems more obsessive in the East. Also, because the main emphasis is on admission, students take it easy once they made it into an elite institution that is treated more like a club(or so it’s been said of Tokyo University). It’s no wonder that Asian universities get no respect. In Asia, the thing is to get INTO a good school than do real work in one. Bad attitude. Also, this status-elitism is destroying Asia with high suicide rates. Because status matters so much, those who don’t make it would rather kill themselves than work at ‘dirty, dangerous, and demeaning’ jobs. As university attendance has become near-universal in some Asian nations, the overall effect has been to instill almost everyone with hipster-Confucian snobbery that they are too good to do any ‘lowly’ labor.

    Or they’d rather move to the West and abandon their race/culture. Asian status-obsession is value-free. So, if a Chinese parents are ideologically conservative but their kid goes to a good school, has a fancy job, and becomes ideologically liberal, the parents will be happy because their kid made it to higher status… even though his ideology is opposite of theirs. So, in Asia, status is the main ideology. This is not a healthy society. It’s all about status, approval, and snobbery. And because snobbery has been universalized in places like Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea, they are now dying nations. People will not get married or have kids unless they can be assured of social rank and raising kids who will do well in school and gain status. (In a way, Mexican-Americans have a healthier attitude to life. Less snobby.) With the entering of women into careers, this means even less jobs for men, and that means more difficulty gaining status. No wonder suicide rates are so high in East Asia. It’s a sick society.

    This ‘tiger mothering’ is a misnomer. It should really be called ‘dog-mothering’ where both the parent and kid act like dogs. The dog-mother will do anything to train her kid to be good doggy who will win prizes at the dog show. And the dog-student’s main obsession is to gain status either by making lots of money or winning approval from PC powers-that-be. It’s no wonder that the new crop of Asian journalists in the West are such servile dogs of PC, spouting the same crap as everyone else. Maybe Wesley Yang is a partial exception, but two chopsticks don’t make a dinner.
    What Asians need is Human-Mothering. American style of Altar-Parenting(offering one’s kids on the altar of degenerate pop culture that is all about glory of crazy blacks, degenerate homos, and nasty Jews) is no good, but dog-mothering also sucks. Human-Mothering is best. Raise kids on Akira Kurosawa films, and the world would be a better place. It’s like HIGH AND LOW. There is something higher than profits and status. There is a sense of humanity, and humanism is best served on the national level.

    Heine said:

    “As Western society becomes more individualistic, a successful life has come to be equated with having high self-esteem,” Heine says. “Inflating one’s sense of self creates positive emotions and feelings of self-efficacy, but the downside is that people don’t really like self-enhancers very much.”

    Heine got it all wrong. The problem is the West has gotten LESS individualistic. It’s gotten more ‘INFANTILISTIC’. True individualism is about having freedom and taking responsibility for it. It’s like characters in THE BIG COUNTRY. Now, those guys are into individualism. And Gregory Peck’s character is about discerning right and wrong based on individual conscience. Now, Pike Bishop in THE WILD BUNCH is a criminal, but he too is a rugged individualist. It’s about how even thieves must live by honor. It’s about being a tough hombre in a rough world. And that kind of attitude once defined American individualism. It was hard and rugged, like in SOMETIMES A GREAT NOTION. Even James Dean’s character in REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE was messed up because his father was too weak. He wanted his father to be like John Wayne and beat his spoiled namby-pamby butt.

    People conflate idiotic obsession with pop culture(the stupid kind) with ‘individualism’ but it’s really about boys and girls wanting to remain kids forever. So, we now have grownups whose main experience of culture is discussing comic book movies. We have women who turned muffs into muppet-shows in their ‘resistance’ to Trump. Children are not individualistic because they don’t have the means to think for themselves. Even their brattiness is manipulated by adults. So, kids will watch a TV commercial and say, “Mommy, buy me, this, Mommy buy me that.” They are dupes of advertisers. So, when adults don’t grow out of childish mentalities, they fail to develop into true individuals. True individualism is about self-control and having agency and power over one’s own soul, body, and thoughts.
    But look at the rise of gambling that addicts adults to dumb slot-machines. Look at the spread of drugs where people need a hit of this or hit of that all the time to feel alive. Look at the spread of videogames where full-grown men spend hours pushing buttons on joysticks to kill imaginary dragons. This isn’t individualism but infantilism. A true individual is curious and hardy enough to listen to other views. But today’s ‘snowflakes’ shriek in horror or act like Bam-Bam(of the Flinstones) if what they hear goes against the PC goo-goo talk they got from cradle. Given the prevalence of Altar-Parenting that offered so many kids to the 2PCs of Pop Culture and Political Correctness, many parents have no meaningful relation with their kids. Kids think, “my parents are uncool” and identify with pop idols cynically engineered by the dirty entertainment industry. Parents regard their kids as offerings to the gods of Trash Culture, and the kids feel that the main role of parents is to feed, clothe, and house them until they can finally lead lives in imitation of TV characters like in GIRLS or SEX AND THE CITY or some other trash.

    Was it individualism that led to the rise of Homomania? Was it individualism that led to all this hysterical waxing about BLACK PANTHER and the Afrotopia of Wakanda? No, only an infantile society where kids were drugged with PC and Pop Culture from cradle could create such a clown world.

    What we need is true individualism. It means kids growing into adults and being responsible for their freedoms. But look all around, and we get babytalk from blacks, feminists, homos, and even Asians. Notice how these people are afraid to think or speak as real individuals. They speak in chant-ese and slogan-ese. Their ideo-vocab repeats the same terms over and over: ‘racism’, ‘homophobia’, ‘misogynist’, ‘intersectionality’, ‘black lives matter’, and etc. It doesn’t even occur to these morons that the main purveyor of violence against women are black rappers who have contracts with Jewish moguls of music industry. These are infantile idiots whose main fixation is with feeling goo-goo-ga-ga-good. They are like babies who can’t change their own diapers about peeing and pooing and go waaaaaaaaah. PC and Pop Culture clowns are like babies. When confronted with something that triggers them, they mentally pee and poo themselves and call on mommy, daddy, teachey, and policey to remove and ban whatever is ‘triggering’ them, goo ga ga.
    But then, who made the kids this way? Those who control Pop Culture and PC.
    The problem really began with boomers, the first ones to grow up with TV. Many of them grew up feeling closer to TV characters than to their parents. And then, the TV-kids grew up and became parents and had TV in every room,and their kids became even more TV-ed. And then, there was Cable TV with more dumb channels. Thus, parenting became all about offering kids to the altar of degeneracy.

    But is it all that different in Japan, China, and South Korea. When the kids are not studying, what is the main source of their culture? In Japan, it’s anime and videogames. In South Korea, it’s K-pop and videogames. In China, pop culture is pretty retarded too, hardly less than in US and EU. So, parents push their kids to study, and when the kids are not studying, their experience of culture is junk. This is so different from the past when there was no TV and when movies were made for adults. If you were a Japanese student who was taking time off from studies in the late 50s or early 60s, you might have seen a Kurosawa film at the local theater. Now, the kids are watching dumb cartoons and playing video games. It’s soulless. Look at the kids in BEIJING BICYCLE. What an empty cultural life.
    Altar-parenting is killing civilization. But so many adults were raised on junk culture and think it’s some kind of RIGHT and RITE for their own kids to go through the same junk-phase.

    The reason why Pop Cultural Junk is worse than ever is because it’s been so intertwined with PC. Though the idea of using Pop Culture as vehicle for political ideas is nothing new, it has now reached into all forms of expression. When I was a child, I used to read Archie’s comic books, and they were just goofy fun. Though all arts & culture have some political subtext, there used to be a time when Pop was Pop. Because Pop was just Pop, you didn’t take it too seriously. It was something you outgrew. Also, serious people didn’t go into pop culture to spread ideas. They became serious authors, scholars, or artists.
    It’s different today. Young ones grow up with Pop Culture that is packed with ideological stuff. So, Archie sacrificed his life to protect a fruity politician.

    http://nhpr.org/post/archie-meet-untimely-death#stream/0

    If in the past, Pop was something you were supposed to outgrow, today kids regard Pop Culture as sacred text for Moral Truths and Political Consciousness. So, Pop sticks to them like brain tattoos. Why abandon Pop and kiddie entertainment when ‘higher’ moral and political truths can be learned from them? The New STAR WARS is dumber than ever, but the cultural commentariat is treating it like canonical stuff for the ages. And when NYT runs op-eds about the profundity of Wakanda, we are living in some fantasy world. We are no longer reading but living in BRAVE NEW WORLD.

    In the past, college was where you went to put away childish things and got some real knowledge about serious stuff. But youth culture dominates most colleges. The music culture of most young ones is infantile rap and other crap. Also, smartphones have fostered a culture of distractions. So, colleges now dumb people down, not just intellectually but culturally.

    Feminism was always ridiculous, but there used to be real intellectuals in the movement. Now, it’s just about some fat woman with green hair and steel through her nose yammering about intersectionality with Muslims while wearing a pussy costume. It’s like Teletubbies or muppet show.
    And then, the rise of ‘gay’ gender studies made it even worse. At least women are half the world. Homos are 2% and trannies are far less than 1%. But because gender studies showered so much attention on them, this was bound to have a Peter Pan effect because (1) homos are vain and prefer fantasy over reality, therefore their impact on ideology and pop culture was to make us favor frivolity over essentiality (2) trannies are like homos, only more so. Homo fantasy’s influence on feminism was to make it even sillier. Feminists in the past were about being free of pop cultural influences that turned women into silly idols. It went too far, but given the sheer inanity of pop culture, it had a salutary effect. But then, homos gain greater cultural influence, and they just luuuuuuv fantasy and artificiality. They promote vanity, narcissism, and artificiality. And this impacted feminism, and women are acting like degenerate teenyboppers of Peter Pan. They’ve become immersed in the celebrity-centric stupidity of pop culture largely fashioned and propped by homos.
    With Jewish media and academia having promoted and spread homomania all over, even straight people are raising their kids to be reverential to homos and trannies. This Peter-Pan-izes the kids because homo culture is essentially Michael-Jacksonish.
    Moreover, our pop culture is totally confused. If homomania encourages boys to be effete cucky metro-sexual dorks, Rap music encourages them to be thugs and see women as ‘bitchass hos’. Also, rap attitude is one of ignorance + arrogance. It’s about hatred of curiosity, humility, discovery, and maturity. It tells 13 yr olds that they know everything if they holler rhymes where everything is a ‘motherf***er’ and if they threaten others with fists or guns. Rap sensibility stunts the soul at around the age of 13. If Rap music becomes one’s main cultural mode, forget about emotional development or mental curiosity. Punk had a similar impact on British youths in the 1970s. Arrogance of ignorance.

    Also, PC isn’t really about self-esteem. It doesn’t try to boost self-esteem but makes people feel angry and blame others for their lack of self-esteem. After all, if a black guy says he appreciates the US, doesn’t feel oppressed, and is happy with his life, he is attacked of being an ‘uncle tom’ or some such. PC is a contest of how “My people have less self-esteem because of ‘racist’ or ‘homophobic’ or ‘sexist’ oppression.” PC may claim to boost self-esteem, but Progs are hostile to those who say they do have self-esteem and don’t need ‘social justice’ to lead meaningful lives. Thus, PC is like a trick where it promises you more self-esteem but condemns you when you say you got self-esteem and don’t need PC to feel good about yourself. PC is like some Christian sects that claim to save your soul but dislike you if you say you can find God on your own and don’t need their help. It has to be their way. Your salvation must be through them, but of course, their treatment never ends… just like psychiatry never ends. Just ask Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys who was kept sick in the name of curing him of his sickness.

    The systematic tendency of East Asians to underestimate their own abilities and engage in self-criticism may indeed be part of a constellation of unique cultural traits.

    Asian self-criticism may be sincere in part. Asians may have more ‘panda’ genes of anxiety, doubt, and subservience. As they evolved as a race of rice farming serfs, their genes were selected for servility. It might be somewhat different among Mongols who evolved as bride-stealing yogurt-gulpers. Also, Confucian values stressed modesty. Furthermore, in a status-crazed society, one’s worth is always measured in relation to others, and there are always others who are better than you.

    But in another way, Asian humility may be a kind of showing off. If in Asian culture, self-effacement is seen as a virtue, then one’s self-esteem rises in inverse proportion to one’s denial of such. It’s like those Hollywood movies about Chinese where some guy says, “Welcome to my worthless house. This is my worthless son. Please have our worthless food.” On the surface, it is humility, but it’s really humility-as-matter-of-pride, or false humility.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=Qahyoh2rop8C&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=this+is+my+worthless+son+chinese&source=bl&ots=O3vexUUAgQ&sig=vtA5gOclsMLRmauRyjBj86YYvzM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiloaLoz73aAhVLZawKHXKOALoQ6AEIWDAI#v=onepage&q=this%20is%20my%20worthless%20son%20chinese&f=false

    Also, if you expect the worst, it’s not so bad if things don’t go your way. So, in a sense, it’s good emotional strategy to expect less than more. If you win, you are happy. If you don’t win, you don’t feel so bad since you told yourself not to expect to win.

    This is why blacks get so miffed when they don’t win. They be telling themselves they’s done deserved it and shi*. It’s like that black winter Olympian who didn’t get to carry the flag and got all sourpuss. It be my bling. But then, blacks are this way due to genetics than PC. They evolved to compete with one another to kill the most number of baboons and show them off as their bling.

    Are whites into self-esteem? It seems PC says there is nothing more evil than White Pride. PC is about invalidating the right of White Identity. This may explain why anti-white vitriol is often most extreme among whites themselves. The ONLY way whites can feel esteem is by being goody-good whites, and that means they must hate, hate, and hate white ‘racists’ and ‘supremacists’. So, that’s how self-esteem works among whites. They want it too, but because whites can’t have it collectively, whites are eager to earn it by screaming about baddy-bad whites.

    The systematic tendency of East Asians to underestimate their own abilities and engage in self-criticism may indeed be part of a constellation of unique cultural traits… This resilience against negative environmental influences also probably explains why by and large the parasitic memes of left-wing post-modernist insanity which have seemingly hijacked the minds of numerous black, white, and Hispanic Americans alike are absent amongst people of East Asian descent.

    It’s servility, and it’s a trait that can be found in native Mexicans as well. Many native Mexicans are like brown Asians with lower IQ. But emotionally, they are similar. With Asians, it may have developed into a certain neurosis because of the culture’s stress on both humility-servility and elitist-meritocracy. On the one hand, East Asian societies were very repressive and people were expected to keep their heads low. If you didn’t bow properly in Japan, a samurai could cut your head off. Chinese weren’t as ruthless but also had rough justice for those who didn’t bow their heads low. So, this aspect of East Asian evolution favored servility and humility.
    But because China developed a meritocratic society based on exams, it spread the idea to folks that nothing is as glorious as having a son who passes imperial exams and works for the emperor. So, one side of Chineseness told the people to be humble slavish folks. But another side of Chineseness said every father should try to make his son study and pass exams and bring honor to the family by becoming an adviser to the Emperor himself. So, one side of Chineseness told the people to bow your head low as possible, while another side of Chineseness told the people that, through exams, they could rise very high. So, Asians developed a cultural trait of rising higher with heads bowed low.

    In contrast, Mexican natives never developed a universal meritocratic system like the Chinese did. It’s interesting that the Chinese exam system was both elevating and repressive. While all forms of education demands form and manners, Professor Kingsfield in THE PAPER CHASE pushes his students to rise higher in intellect and think on their own. Kingsfield is a son-of-a-bitch in pushing his students to think independently. He wants to raise their intellectual independence as high as possible. In contrast, Confucian education meant one’s elevation depended on total conformity to established truths and forms. There was no leeway for individual thought. The range of subject was narrow, the style of the essay was set in stone, and the answers were preordained. In this way, Chinese developed their way of PC of Philosophical Correctness that rigidly froze Chinese culture and knowledge, preventing it from thinking outside the box. In a way, Current Chinese education is still a form of PC. After all, what would happen if a Chinese student wanted to freely express his views about Mao, Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution, and etc? What if he were to write an essay denouncing the decision of Xi Xinping to prolong his rule?

    Indeed, the fact that so many Chinese could be mobilized to carry out something like the Great Leap Forward and later the madness of the Cultural Revolution goes to show that the Asian mindset isn’t immune from total lunacy. Asians took rather earnestly to communism-Stalinism and carried out crazy horrors in China, North Korea, Vietnam, and especially Cambodia(though Cams are not East Asians to be sure).

    I’m not sure blacks and browns are motivated by ‘leftism’. After all, blacks love to see rich and powerful blacks with lots of bling. Same with browns. They are not opposed to inequality or riches per se. Blacks love millionaire black singers, athletes, TV personalities, and etc. If blacks are for black power, they are really black rightists. They just happen to be allied with white leftists. It’s like Muslims in Europe ally with homos and liberals but they are NOT pro-homo or liberal. They are Muslim rightists who want to expand Muslim power. The only real leftists in the US are white progressives(who will work against white interest for ‘higher good’), self-critical Jews like Philip Weiss and Max Blumenthal, and some East Asians as teacher’s pets of PC. All three groups are willing to sacrifice tribal interest for a ‘universal’ or abstract principle. So, white progressives will support Affirmative Action. So, self-critical Jews will condemn right-wing Israel. So, East Asian PC commissars will expend most of their energies in serving a non-tribal cause or interest.

    When white progressives and blacks holler ‘black lives matter’ together, the former are being ‘liberal’ in opposing ‘racist’ white police whereas the latter are being ‘rightist’ in that they are blacks who care, first and foremost, about black lives. Notice blacks don’t care about all the black violence against other races. So, to bunch all these peoples under one label misses the point.

    Speaking of ‘post-modern insanity’, it may be missing in China that is ruled by nationalist regime, but it’s spread like a cancer in Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan. They have massive homo parades, their pop culture is peter-pan-ish and Michael-Jacksonize the young, and they imitate whatever trends that emerge from the Jewish-homo-controlled West. I read in some blog that Taiwan is on the verge of passing ‘gay marriage’. It might be law there already. Now, as long as Japan, S. Korea, and Taiwan don’t have lots of diversity, they will be more stable than rapidly diversifying West. But with rapidly falling populations, corporate demand for cheap labor, desire to emigrate overseas and abandon their own nations, and PC promoting ‘multi-culturalism’, it’s very possible that East Asian nations except China will turn into Sweden and UK of the East. If we go by most Chinese journalists in Canada and US, it’s amazing how fast and total their conversion to PC has been.

    In part because of their own cultural resilience, East Asians are often marginalized in American society and rendered invisible.

    That isn’t the main reason. Suppose East Asians lacked such ‘resilience’ and ‘stoic’ diligence. Would they be the favored center of attention? How many Americans pay much attention to Puerto Ricans? Or to Guatemalans? Do Muslims get much respect? Who speaks up for the Palestinians? There is the budding BDS movement, but most Americans care little about Palestinians. It’s not that East Asians are ‘marginalized’. It’s that they fail to come into cultural focus. One reason is they complain less. After all, people pay attention to complainers, not to those who remain silent. Even among whites, the conservative boomers were more silent while liberal boomers made more noise. Guess who got more attention and power? So, would Asians have gained more attention if they’d complained more? Not likely. For one thing, Asians look geeky and have weaker voices. So, when an Asian complains, it’s like the scene with Mickey Rooney in BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY’S. When a Negro bellows to the whitey, white folks get scared like hearing god’s thug angel telling them stuff. They pee their pants. But when someone like Mickey Rooney as Japanese shouts ‘I protest’, it doesn’t inspire much emotions, good or bad, among whites. It’s just amusing.

    Also, Americans are very idolic and pay most attention to exciting stuff. Take Jackie Robinson. Why did he become such a legend? It was a combination of victim theme and victor theme so central to Christianity. As a black man, he stood for symbol of victim of ‘white racism’. But as a man who succeeded in baseball, he came to be admired as a superior athlete who overcame imposed inferiority.
    Now, East Asians may have achieved something similar. After all, there was the sad history of Chinese rail road workers. And we know about the Japanese in camps during WWII. But despite those odds and bad times, many Asians succeeded in professions and contributed to US society. Okay, but most professions are boring. They may be far more essential to society than hitting a ball, but Americans love exciting stuff. So, a Negro who hits home runs is more idol-worthy than an Asian who becomes a doctor or accountant or nerdy engineer. But then, it’s the same in Asia. Bruce Lee didn’t do anything but pretend to kick butts of all color on the movie screen. But he’s better-known and more revered in Asia than real Asian folks who cure people, cook food, crunch numbers, build bridges, fix roads, and etc. The human mind is essentially idolic and iconologic. People seek heroes who offer thrills and chills.

    Suppose East Asians dominated sports and pop music. They would not be ‘marginalized’. After all, this ‘marginalization’ happens among Asians themselves. Take immigration. Why do Asians choose to leave their own ancestral nations forever and choose to settle in the West where they will be minorities of whites, blacks, & browns and live under the power of Jews and Homos? Why do Asian immigrants ‘marginalize’ their own nations into a distant memory and take on new identities in the West, often changing their name to something like ‘Frank’ or ‘Francis’? Why do Asians reject their own nations, peoples, cultures, and lands to come to ANOTHER nation where their children are very likely to assimilate into non-Asian-ness? Also, judging by the number of Asian women who choose to have kids with non-Asian men, don’t Asian women ‘marginalize’ Asian men? And why? Because Asian men have zero idolic value in America. Things might be different if Asians were good in sports or dominant in pop music, but not so. One may criticize American culture of being shallow and stupid for favoring trivial things over serious things, but isn’t NBA huge in China? All those Asian boys worship black athletes. And according to American Renaissance article, Chinese women throw themselves as white men in China.

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/03/chinese-college-students-think-race/

    So, if Asians reject Asian-ness as inferior, why should non-Asians give a crap about Asians? It seems the best plan for Asian survival is to end emigration and ban non-Asian immigration and deal with the world only in terms of sharing ideas and trading goods. But so many Asians have chosen to abandon their own people, lands, and cultures to come to the West. Once they’ve come to another nation, they must expect to be treated by the Norms of the New Nation. And in the US, the Norms are ‘winner-takes-all’ for the most idolic or iconic groups. And this is why only four groups matter: the Holy Three of Jews, blacks, and homos… and whites. Whites don’t have ‘victim’ thing and are targeted by PC 24/7, but everyone still likes whiteness deep down inside. Look at all those Brazilians who want to have white babies. Look at Asian women who get plastic surgery and blonde hair to look white or marry white men to have white-looking babies. Look at black women who just gotta have their weaves. And look at Tiger Woods and black men who go for white women. And look at Jewish Portnoy Complex. So, everyone wants to feed off whites economically, politically, sexually, and etc. (Indeed, precisely because non-whites want to feed on the white whale, they paralyze it with ‘white guilt’ so that there won’t be white resistance to this parasitism.) Whites are very iconic in this sense, but because they lack the ‘victim’ theme, they are not holy. To be holy, you need both victim theme and victor theme. Jews are the biggest winners in this because they got the victim theme of Shoah and victor theme of having succeeded so much in business, science, arts, and entertainment. Blacks got it because they got slavery-victim theme and victor theme as athletes and singers. With homos, it’s largely manufactured, but still, homos claim victimhood because they were in the closet and claim victor-hood because so many homos saturate elite fields.

    Now, East Asians may point to the opium trade, imperialism, building railroads, Philippines war, internment camps, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Korean War, Vietnam War, Great Leap, and Cultural Revolution, etc. as examples of Asian victimhood. But opium war was with the Brits, not with Americans. And building railroads was tough, but it was not like the Chinese were brought by force like blacks. The internment camps were bad but not that bad. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were very bad, but US attacked first and Japanese were doing worse in China. Korean War was bad, but Koreans act like grateful dogs of US, so not much happening there. Filipinos are likewise a silly people without historical gravitas. Vietnam War was bad too, but Vietnamese now LOVE Americans and want more business. Just when we thought Americans are amnesiac, I guess silly Viets are even more so. And Great Leap and Cultural Revolution, horrible as they were, were self-inflicted, so you can’t blame white folks for that horror. So, even though there was lots of Asian suffering, the events don’t really touch American nerves in a particularly tragic way.

    Also, unless a people have idolic or iconic power, their past suffering just becomes the stuff of history. Because blacks are always visible as athletes, singers, and celebrities, white people are always prone to think, “Oh my god, blacks are so special, talented, and awesome, but we white folks whipped them and said, ‘Hey ni**er, pick me some cotton’.” Same with Jews. Because there has been so much Jewish talent in letters, arts, movies, music, comedy, and etc., people are always reminded of the specialness of Jews. Also, Jewish scientists changed the world. Asian ones are pretty good at grind-work, but Einstein was like a prophet who figured out laws of the universe. And Oppenheimer built the mother of all bombs. That’s some iconic shi*. Jewish genius got the spark whereas Chinese smarts only got the lift. So, the visibility of Jewish talent and genius makes people feel about Shoah especially. If Jews had exhibited no talent since the Shoah, I don’t think people would much care about the tragedy. It is the the continuance of Jewish talent that reminds people of the evil of Shoah. It makes them feel, “The World committed a great wrong to a special people.” But the supposed 500,000 Iraqi kids who died of sanctions? Who cares about low IQ cousin-humping Arabs? All those ‘white trash’ dying of opioids? Who cares about such low-IQ morons? Even Kevin Williamson who came from a ‘white trash’ community doesn’t care. America’s view of ‘white trash’ is they are only useful as consumers of opioids, cannon fodder for Wars for Israel, more meat for the porn industry, and the poster-child of ‘racist white populism’ that represents the mother of all evil.
    Granted, Jews may lose out in the iconic game in the future. PC has undermined comedy, a field Jews have excelled in. In a PC world, guys like Mel Brooks, Rodney Dangerfield, Albert Brooks, and Don Rickles wouldn’t have had a chance. Also, with pop music now being so totally rappy and hippy-hoppy and dumbed down, it’s difficult for someone like Bob Dylan to emerge and make a difference. Also, if many talented Jews in the 60s were fueled by hunger and ambition, too many Jews born to privilege lack the fire and drive. And too many of them have mixed with bimbos who bring down Jewish IQ or with Asian women who bring down chutzpah quotient as Asians are servile than chutzpahistic.

    Anyway, Chinese-Americans are no good in sports(relative to other races) and don’t have the vocal power or movements to be rappers and such. So, whites are not reminded of Chinese tragedies because they don’t notice Chinese talent in the ‘cool’ areas. But this is true of Mexicans and browns too. Sure, the progs pretend to care about the ‘dreamers’, but it’s purely about political expediency. There is no interest in most Mexicans who are seen as Brown Asiatics with lower IQ.
    Now, suppose Chinese were dominant in sports and entertainment in the US. Then, so much attention would be showered on Chinese winners, and there would be news stories about how such-and-such’s grandfather was killed by evil Japanese or was discriminated by ‘racist’ America, or was once called a ‘chink’. It’s just how things work. Why do we know(and care) so much more about nations with famous national cinemas than ones without? Take France vs UK. Among cinephiles, France is a special place. UK is much less so. Why? Because French cinema really put French-everything on the map whereas UK cinema was far less renowned, usually seen as the lesser English-language cinema, a kind of poodle to Hollywood.

    For instance, it’s long been known that Asian Americans are discriminated against in the context of elite college admissions, bearing the brunt of the sacrifice required to create affirmative action spots for blacks and Hispanics in this country.

    True, but even with such discriminatory policies, Asians are vastly OVER-represented in elite academia. But from a practical POV, wouldn’t it be better for Asians if ALL were banned from elite colleges? After all, what happens when people, Asian or white or Muslim or Hindu, are admitted to elite colleges? Do they serve their own people? Well, Jews do. But who else? Whites who enter elite institutions become enemies of whites. Joe Biden, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Al Gore, and etc. never gave a shi* about white folks. They just joined the globalist club and raked it all in for themselves. Asians are no different. If you think Asians entering elite institutions means MORE Asian power, you’re gravely mistaken. Paradoxically, it will mean less power for Asians. Why? Because Asians are status-obsessed rodentoids. Once they get in to an elite institution, the ONLY thing they care about is My Status, My Privilege, My Position. So, to secure their statuses, they will do ANYTHING to be be approved and accepted. Instead of gaining power to serve the Asian community or their ancestral nations — like Jews serve Israel and fellow Jews around the world — , Asian elites in the US will just be running dogs of the Empire. Unlike Jews who have the Covenant, Asians just have the Covetousness. So, if more Asians enter elite institutions, they will use their position to spread the agenda of the Empire to weaken Asia. I guarantee that all those Chinese who graduated from elite Canadian and American colleges are committed to spreading homomania, negromania, and diversity to Asia. And because Asians are such suckers for those with elite scholarly credentials, they will listen to the words of Asian Harvard and Yale graduates as if they’re the words of gods. Asian elites will be just like white elites. When has Hillary Clinton the Yaley ever done anything for the white race or her own kind? Ted Cruz is supposed to be a conservative, but his main passion is Israel, Israel, Israel. Even half-white Obama turned traitor to blacks. He didn’t do crap for the black folks. He mainly served Jews and homos, and now, he has a $60 million book deal. Look at all the white gentiles who write for NYT or WAPO. Do they ever care about white folks? No.

    There was a time when white folks did enter Harvard and Yale and then did something for their own race. But Jews took over the elite institutions and rigged the curriculum to turn everyone into a shill for Zion, Afromania, and Homomania. If one serves Homomania, one is indirectly serving Jews because it’s Jewish replacement for Christianity. If one serves Afromania, one is also indirectly serving Jewish power because Jews control the industries in which blacks are featured as athletes and singers. Jews have such power over blacks that they even grab black puds and asses with impunity, and the Negroes just have to take it.

    Anyway, think of Harvard and etc as Janissary Schools for all groups except for Jews. Jews enter elite institutions to serve and push Jewish interests. Everyone else is turned into a Janissary of the GLOB. Whether it’s a white gentile, Asian, mulatto, or Hindu, they turn into the kind of running dogs who bark for the bombing of Syria. If Asians want to make a difference, they should stay on the outside of elite institutions and form organizations to criticize The Power. Entering elite colleges is like entering the Roach Motel. Your soul checks in but it doesn’t check out.

    Even when the correct reporting of the facts began to surface later on, we were still subjected to the typical blathering accusing the Trump administration of being disingenuous by feigning interest in the well-being of Asian Americans and proclaiming that Asians shouldn’t allow themselves to be used as tools by white conservatives in advancing their right-wing agenda. The fact that 64 different Asian American groups had filed a complaint against Harvard seemingly eluded everyone. One generally got the impression that Asian Americans were a group deprived of any real agency, instead being merely hapless pawns in the Game of Thrones pitting whites on the one hand against blacks and Hispanics on the other.

    I don’t think Trump should give a crap about Asians. 80% of them voted for Hillary, and that means most Asians are for the displacement and replacement of White Americans in the nation that they founded and built. With Asians supporting such a vile agenda, why should Trump or whites care about Asians?
    Also, if Asians really have agency, why it did take Ron Unz’s article to deal the first real blow to the ‘myth of meritocracy’? As Unz pointed out, Asians in California have been ignoring black-on-Asian crime and problems associated with illegals and just dishing out the same old anti-white rhetoric that they absorbed from PC. So, the Asian-American narrative barks on command for its PC master. There is no agency there. Furthermore, Asian-American groups who complain about discrimination have said they support affirmative action for blacks and browns. Their plan is to sacrifice EVEN MORE WHITES to make room for more Asians. It’s a dirty move.
    Granted, NYT and progs are full of shi* as well. If they really care about proportional justice, why don’t they point to Jewish over-representation in all elite fields? Hardly ‘fair’.

    Another insidious example of the tendency to marginalize Asian Americans has been the rather curious phenomenon as of late of simply pretending that they aren’t even Asian at all. For instance, we constantly hear the mainstream media bemoaning the fact that Silicon Valley lacks diversity and is too white and male. Yet this conveniently ignores the fact that whites are actually underrepresented overall at many of the Bay Area’s most elite firms relative to their percentage amongst the general population.

    LOL. It’s also amusing because many of those ‘whites’ are also Jews, which means white gentile under-representation is the real problem. Anyway, since whites are the Villains according to PC, it won’t do to say there are Too Many Asians. They have to be made ‘white’. It’s like the complaints about Stuyvesant school having ‘too many whites’ when it’s majority Asian. ‘Whites’ is sometimes used as cover for Asian, just like ‘teens’ is often a cover for black thugs.

    But two things. Aren’t East Asians a bunch of white-wanna-be’s? After all, why did they leave their own peoples and cultures to be with whites and to attend white-made institutions? Also, with all the race-mixing with whites, it seems East Asians want to have white-looking kids. And even a Chinese American woman, Andrea Cheng, is wondering about Asian women dyeing their hair blonde. Isn’t it better for Asians to stay in Asia and defend and tend what they got instead of coming to the West and bitching about unfairness? I think if a people move to another land, they don’t have the right to complain much. If whites moved to China, they better accept Chinese norms. Otherwise, they should leave. Same with Asians in the West. If they don’t like it, they can just go back.

    The obsession with self-esteem and the fundamental lack of what might be described as a self-critical orientation is hardly the sole province of those on the left…
    One of the more disappointing revelations in my opinion has been the extraordinary ambivalence of many right-wing whites towards clear anti-Asian discrimination in this country. On various alt-right blogs where themes such as race realism and affirmative action are often discussed, when it comes to the issue of Asian Americans and meritocracy, many right-wing whites seemingly abandon their principles whole. Thus, while these individuals formerly denounced discrimination against whites in favor of blacks and Hispanics, we all of a sudden hear that Asian American academic success is merely the result of cheating and gaming the system.

    Again, much of what is called the ‘left’ is really the non-white right. Rightism puts one’s own people and culture at the center. So, blacks and browns who want affirmative action are really black or brown rightists or ‘nationalists’ who are for “Is it good for my people?”

    As for the Alt Right, of course it is opposed to ‘principled meritocracy’. Alt Right is about blood and soil. It values Power over Principles. Now, if supposedly principled libertarians approved of AA against Asians, that would pose a problem of logic and consistency. But Alt Right isn’t libertarian. It is first and foremost about racial solidarity, ethnic identity, and cultural heritage. Alt Right is for exclusive meritocracy or meritocracy within the white order for the good of whites. So, in an all-white society, Alt Right would be 100% for meritocracy. But in a diverse order where it’s a case of competition among various groups, Alt Right has to be for white power first. It must be race-ist. Now, Alt Right might be for meritocracy for Asians IF Asians weren’t anti-white. But Asians in the US are mostly running dogs of PC, and once they get their fancy degrees, work against the white race. The vast majority of Asians voted for Obama the homomaniacal monster and Hillary the race-traitor witch-monster-whore. Amy Chua, the Harvard grad and Yale professor, wrote a new book blasting Alt Right and Richard Spencer. This is the reality. So, hell with ‘principles’. The fact is most Asians are status-obsessed running dogs. Since PC is the official religion of the US, most Asians who attend elite colleges will become agents of PC and will do everything to hurt ‘whitey’. Now, if Vietnamese patriots wanted to kill US neo-imperialist soldiers, OK. That was their turf, and Americans were the occupiers. But since when do Asians get to come to the US and work against the very people whose ancestors built this country? That’s a lowlife shi* move.

    Also, the highest principle is not meritocracy but truth, honesty, and courage. After all, Billy Boy Clinton is a very bright guy who made it to Yale with real smarts. But his meritocracy with grades didn’t translate into meritocracy of virtue or integrity. He’s a slimeball through and through. Indeed, so many of these graduates of elite colleges are just the most craven, repellent, lowlife, scummy, and turdy critters I’ve ever seen. Just look at Obama, Ted Cruz, Hillary, Biden, Gore, Emanuel, Yoo, Comey, and the list goes on. I mean where did they find these people? What a waste of intelligence.

    Being Asian, Yan Shen is fixated on degrees(like Negroes are fixated on blings and Mexicans on pinatas), but he should care less about meritocracy and more about truthocracy, honestocracy, and couragocracy, all of which are missing in the parenting culture that is obsessed mainly with gaining status and privilege for one’s kibblers.

    Alt Right position makes perfect sense. In white nations, whites should do everything to secure their own pride, power, prestige, and well-being. The fact is races are different, and if one takes a principled approach on universal standards, one’s own people will lose out IF the other race is superior. This is why whites need a sports culture of their own. A white league. As whites cannot compete with stronger and faster blacks, meritocracy in sports has led to cucky loss of manhood and jungle fever among white womenfolk. And Yan Shen should know that his Chinese folks are losing out meritocratically in the US for the most part. Even if the US were to get rid of all Affirmative Action and even if more Asians were to attend elite colleges, the fact remains that Asian men lose out sexual-meritocratically to men of other races. Raw manhood is judged by height, muscularity, personality, and dong-size, and it seems Asian men can’t keep a lot of their own womenfolks. So, what does it matter if some Asian male geeks attend Harvard? The Chinese girlies are still gonna go with other men anyway. Yan, being Asian, is so fixated on exams and colleges, but meritocracy operates in every field. Why do so many white boys get beat up by black boys? I’ve seen a lot of it when I grew up. Because blacks win meritocratically in muscle power and aggression. If whites, who are still huge in number, keep losing out in the nation that they made, do Asians want to stake their future in the West? What for? Just to turn into running dogs of PC? Just to have lots of race-mixing whereby Asians become half-whites or mulat-tofus?
    The best advice is in Kurosawa’s KAGEMUSHA. “Mountain doesn’t move.” Asians have China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and etc. They should do everything to keep it. That’s a lot of good stuff. Trying to gain in the West will only turn them into cuck-roaches of globalism. It’s like the Mongols failed in the end. They were outnumbered by the Chinese and got absorbed into China. Likewise, all the Asians in the West will be sexually, culturally, and politically absorbed into the West and become cuck-roaches of Jewish and Homo power. The ONLY reason Asians should study in the West is to take back the skills to their home nations.

    The real war for the West must come from white nationalists. They are the only hope. Alt Right understands one thing. While individuality and meritocracy are important, the identity and power come first and foremost. All ethno-cultural orders function this way. Israel maintains itself because it favors even mediocre Jews over smart gentiles. Perhaps, Israeli GDP will go up if it welcomes high IQ gentiles from all over and let them take over much of the economy. But what will this mean to Jews in a Jewish nation?
    Or look what meritocracy has done to Southeast Asia. Chinese minorities have taken over entire industries. Is that worth it? Even if native majority aren’t as smart as the Chinese, isn’t it more sensible for them to develop their own means to build and establish majority domination of national industries?

    The dark lesson of meritocracy can be learned from rise of Jewish Power. Whites took a chance on Jews as fellow whites who happened to be Jewish. As a child, I felt this way and thought most Jews in my school were basically whites with a different religion who just wanted to do well in society. But since the 80s, Jews use meritocracy to gain elite power and do terrible things to undermine White America. It’s appalling. And they are doing it even to Europe with ancient roots of blood and soil. And they are exporting homomania all over the world, even to Asia and even to Muslim Turkey(!) until Erdogan(in one of the few sane things he did) said NO MORE. Because Jews are white, they could have made common cause with white gentiles. But they chose not to. And they are now using their immense power to finish off the white race. Will Jews come to their senses and rejoin the white race? The best bet for Jews and whites is to see the main global divide as being between whites(with Jews as fellow whites) and non-whites. But because Jews see the main divide as between Jews and Gentiles, they seek to maximize diversity among gentiles to break up their power via divide-and-rule so as to serve Jewish hegemony. If things continue as they are, the white enforcement of meritocracy for all groups would have been the biggest mistake ever. It’s like the Greek Olympics. It was meritocratic but open ONLY to Greeks. Greeks didn’t import big-ass Negroes to outrun and out-whomp the Greeks.
    Meritocracy must be a tool to serve the race.

    There are two kinds of people. Those who use ideology to serve an identity and those who use identity to serve an ideology. The former will always win. Jews win because they use ideas of both left and right to serve Jewish power. Whites lose because they offer their identity to the service of either a fixed ideology or another identity not their own.

    Because the races are different, the results of meritocracy becomes race-ist. Take sports. There is no racial discrimination in sports that says NO MEXICANS, ASIANS, HINDUS, ETC ALLOWED. But there is still biological discrimination that favors blacks and effectively excludes many non-black groups. It’s even more pronounced between men and women. Women must have their own space in sports because meritocratic competition with men will lead to total loss for women. (Just see what happens as more trannies enter women’s sports.) In the end, even individualism fails because of racial differences. Suppose every black basketball player is a libertarian individualist who doesn’t see himself as black but as just a free agent. But when he joins a team that is all black, how can he not notice and feel a sense of black power? Likewise, Yuri Slezkine in THE JEWISH CENTURY remarked that even anti-religious communist Jews couldn’t help feeling a certain tribal solidarity when so many Jews ended up in elite ins

  208. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    Tim Harford in the FT this past weekend on his impressions of China’s prosperity from his recent trip there: https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/985456806863556608

    • Replies: @res
  209. TT says:
    @Antolx

    like like china is doing in this moments to tibetans and uighurs

    Its amazing even in unz site, there are always endless of such either ignorant brainwashed or trolls still regurgitating msm lies about China invading & killing in Tibet & Uyghur.

    Hundreds of years ago, Manchus invaded China, and took Tibet too. After China become free from Qing dynasty(Manchus), Tibet become part of China by historical reason. Then FUKUS India invaded southern Tibet, CIA sponsored & trained Tibetans under Dalai Lama(CIA declassified) to subvert China.

    Whereas Uyghur, the Turks terrorists are trained in (CIA & KSA wahabhi sponsored)Turkey terrorist camp. Russia bombed an entire village of Uyghur terrorists(with ISIS flags decoration) at Syria-Turkey border after they killed a Russian pilot. Turkey Erogan thumping his chest saying they are his closest kins(RT).

    These Turks are not native but Eastern turks nomadic invading Xinjiang, real native is Hui minority. They vow to exterminate all Hui & Hans, conducting mass killings of innocents regularly. This is a CIA-Turkey project to subvert China, similar to Chechnya Muslims war instigated by CIA-Nato under KSA Wahabi sponsorship.

    Today, Tibet & Xinjiang both enjoying all the China subsidized prosperity with FSR. Go visit to see yourself & stop been Fukus Indian propaganda mouthpiece.

    The South Tibet is still under massacre & rape by India, back by West graceful humanity mission.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Punju
  210. JessicaR says:

    Just a few observations:

    1. Because America is so ethnically diverse, we as a society must emphasize the individual. If we were a more collective culture, we would fragment, even more than we already do, along ethnic lines. Sure, ideally, we would include everyone in our communities and social networks but in reality, that rarely happens. Or perhaps our most important networks are composed of people like ourselves while our less close, less important networks are more diverse.

    2. Because we emphasize the individual over family and community, self-esteem is a necessary ingredient to give people some sense of satisfaction. I believe self-esteem arose as a reaction to the breakdown of the American family–consider the high rates of divorce and illegitimacy, the lack of contact many kids have with extended family, and the lack of real neighborhood communities, especially among middle and upper class whites. People who lack intact families and meaningful communities focus on themselves because they have nothing else.

    3. I believe American mediocrity has less to do with the self-esteem phenomenon than the 10,000 hour idea. We spend our time on TV, the Internet, and other distractions rather than homework, reading, or practicing a musical instrument. If white Americans studied the way Asian Americans do, academic achievement would rise significantly.

    4. So Chinese managers work until 10 pm. Big deal. Lots of Americans work two and three jobs, which means their work hours are nearly as long.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @Disordered
  211. anonymous[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @GammaRay

    There is a distinction between arriving before a government is formed and borders are drawn, vs. after. Those who arrived before are not called “immigrants”, they were settlers. Only those who came after July 4th, 1776 are called immigrants. Without such a distinction, everyone everywhere is an “immigrant”, including the Chinese in China, Japanese in Japan, Frenchmen in France, Germans in Germany, Icelanders in Iceland, Arabs in Saudi Arabia, even Africans in most of Africa. Does that mean everyone in the world has a right to settle in China, Japan, Germany, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and any country they want? Try that ridiculous line of logic with any of those countries and let us know how well it goes over.

    To most sane people who are not morally dubious muddled brain open border lunatics, immigrants do not have the same right as settlers. Their right to settle must be in accordance with the laws of that country once a government is formed and borders are drawn. The citizens of a country get to decide who they want in and how many, just like members of a club has the right to decide who gets to become new members. If your ancestors had arrived before July 4th, 1776 and played a big part in forming the early government of the United States, then you would be equally entitled to call America yours. But they didn’t did they? All Asians arrived after 7-4-1776, hence they are all immigrants.

    The 14th amendment gives right of US citizenship to anyone born on US soil, but those who weren’t born here don’t have that right, hence citizenship via naturalization is a privilege, which can be taken away from them.

    • Replies: @Rdm
    , @Ju Ahn
    , @GammaRay
  212. @JessicaR

    I appreciated your observations.

    Though, I think you are being far too kind.

  213. Yan Shen says:
    @Anon

    I’ve only skimmed bits and pieces of this, but I have to say very nice writing an 11,000 word comment! I wonder if that’s the longest comment ever written on this site…

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  214. res says:
    @Tyrion 2

    the basic fact that China lags Iraq and Botswana in production

    Perhaps two countries with natural resources driving much of their economy are not the best comparisons? Not to mention the relative populations compared to China’s ~1.4 billion.

    70% of Botswana’s exports by value are gem diamonds: http://www.commonwealthofnations.org/sectors-botswana/business/import_and_export/
    ~2 million people.

    99% of Iraq’s exports by value is crude oil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Iraq
    ~37 million people.

    It would be interesting to see an analysis of the relative wealth and living standards in both rural and urban groups for all three countries.

    You make some important points, but I think you are overestimating the importance of the GDP comparisons. I make some observations about assessing China’s performance in comment 170. Do you have any thoughts on those?

    The speedy urbanisation is something but China is hardly pioneering industrial development in that respect.

    I am curious about this. China seems to be pushing the envelope on industrial development technology at scale. And their rate of growth is incredible. Could you describe more what you mean?

  215. res says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Thanks. I got to the article itself by searching for (without the quotes) “tim harford financial times china we cannot rely on personal impressions alone”

    Dave, any interesting comments at the FT?

  216. Rdm says:
    @anonymous

    By your definition, Donald Trump is an immigrant since his paternal grandfather migrated after 1776. Even Trump mother was a full immigrant in early 1930s.

    We should be calling all Whites in the States as “European American” instead of just “American.” How about that? We could also use some flavors like “Bagpipe American”, “Croissant American”, and “Teabag American”.

    the United States is a nation of immigrants by your definition and we all agree on that. But Whites are making as if they are true Americans. In fact, they are not. They have interest back at their ancestral homeland as well.

    That’s the bottom line.

  217. denk says:
    @TT

    FUKUSIndia democrazy 101

    These bandits cover up each others ass, its their professonal courtesy.
    As an example, five lies MSM, even alternate media, highlight, distort., hype up and outright fabricate ‘oppressions in Tibet, China’ , while real genocides are daily affairs in Tibet, India.

    The socalled Northeast of India,

    THE TIBET THAT NO ANGLOS WANNA TALK ABOUT

    hehehhehe

    • Replies: @TT
  218. Ju Ahn says:
    @anonymous

    I’m willing to bet even most white people are not descendants of the founding fathers of this country who were here by 1776. So, your (or many other WNs) claim to this country is that you belong to same ethnic group as Abraham Lincoln or Benjamin Franklin. That kind of reasoning is very ethnocentric. You need to start calling out other white people as immigrants not just Asians and Hispanic people just because we are people of different color and are very easy to point us out from the mass.

    Either way you’re missing the point, I don’t think we’re arguing for immigration reform here unlike Latin American groups. I’m actually very against open border policies and many East Asians would agree. There are East Asians who support open border policies but so do many white people.
    We are just arguing for fair and transparent admissions policy in our colleges.

    You can actually see that many people that belong to minority groups are actually against illegal immigration despite what many activists groups claim.

    Below Data is from External Website:

    [MORE]

    [
    In contrast to the leadership of many ethnic advocacy groups, most members of minority groups think immigration is too high.

    Hispanics: 56 percent said it is too high; 7 percent said too low; 14 percent just right.

    Asian-Americans: 57 percent said immigration is too high; 5 percent said too low; 18 percent just right.

    African-Americans: 68 percent said it is too high; 4 percent said too low; 14 percent just right.
    Most members of minority groups do not feel that illegal immigration is caused by limits on legal immigration as many ethnic advocacy groups argue; instead, members feel it’s due to a lack of enforcement.

    Hispanics: Just 20 percent said illegal immigration was caused by not letting in enough legal immigrants; 61 percent said inadequate enforcement.

    Asian-Americans: 19 percent said not enough legal immigration; 69 percent said inadequate enforcement.

    African-Americans: 16 percent said not enough legal immigration; 70 percent said inadequate enforcement.
    Most members of minority groups feel that there are plenty of Americans available to fill unskilled jobs.

    Hispanics: 15 percent said legal immigration should be increased to fill unskilled jobs; 65 percent said there are plenty of Americans available to do unskilled jobs, employers just need to pay more.

    Asian-Americans: 19 percent said increase immigration; 65 percent said plenty of Americans are available.

    African-Americans: 6 percent said increase immigration; 81 percent said plenty of Americans are available.
    When asked to choose between enforcement that would cause illegal immigrants in the country to go home or offering them a pathway to citizenship with conditions, most members of minority groups choose enforcement.

    Hispanics: 52 percent support enforcement to encourage illegals to go home; 34 percent support conditional legalization.

    Asian-Americans: 57 percent support enforcement; 29 percent support conditional legalization.

    African-Americans: 50 percent support enforcement; 30 percent support conditional legalization.

    Source: https://cis.org/Examination-Minority-Voters-Views-Immigration
    ]

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    , @James Forrestal
  219. Ju Ahn says:
    @Ju Ahn

    This is what Asian Americans really think about undocumented immigration

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/05/23/this-is-what-asian-americans-really-think-about-undocumented-immigration/?utm_term=.f848260efe95

    This is an article from mainstream media that includes data about Asian American views on immigration issues. You can see while South and Southeast Asians are more pro-immigration, Chinese and Korean Americans are more divided on the issue (close to 50-50).

  220. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Yan Shen

    Keep going. Very diligent, very efficient, very productive. Much more so than an American worker.
    Let’s see how much the Asians can hold forth about what it is to be a “real American” without mentioning that old piece of paper with the fancy cursive on it.

  221. J.Ross says: • Website
    @TT

    This is pretty much what I would have replied to mcohen if I was faster. Modern police-tolerated Antifa terror squads are pretty recognizably like the students eating their professors. In China, the government will generally guarantee the public order, and protect those intellectuals whose work is seen as valiable to national development.

  222. Antolx says:
    @GammaRay

    post ww2 is a point apart in history

    if it wasnt for usa all european colonies would still be here it was thanks to america that the mayority of countries around the globe are free today at least much more free that were 100 years before.
    never such a potency as usa has been so merciful with the losers of a war like japan germany ….
    usa exported a model of liberal democracy that all the people around the globe adhere
    is a point apart in history where top down the freedom and equality is given not conquered
    if you adhere to those values and violentate the will of the mayority that want to remain a mayority in their own countries you are trading god for evil in the first place
    you spiting in the face to the people that give you freedom and power when you have none
    you have destroyed the social and political pact
    post ww2 was a point apart in history and the rules who we have adhered since then if you dont respect those rules you are proving fascist people right and that you should have been submited like in the old times not giving the freedom that you posses in the first place

    -scandinavian colonization it was intraeuropean as you say if you adhere to such high standards there is not a country in the world like bantus in africa,aryan in india ,han in china that could be free of inmigration playing by those rules
    -eastern european are subjected as “whites” to the same standars as western european if you read the media

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  223. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Yan Shen

    Mr. Shen,

    it is probably commenter “Priss Factor” https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Priss+Factor :

    Although the number of comments effected was relatively small—perhaps 3-4% of the total—the violations of some commenters was remarkably egregious, with a certain “Priss Factor” having published 8400 comments under a total of 397 (!!!) different handles that I managed to locate and merge, plus presumably many others that I failed to detect. Other commenters, including several notorious “trolls” had each employed at least a couple of dozen or more aliases. I still have some additional filtering and merging to do, but I think the bulk of the process has now been completed.

    http://www.unz.com/announcement/major-commenting-enhancements/#p_1_6

    Taken together, these features further establish the dualization of the website, with commenters being increasingly placed on an near-equal footing with writers, columnists, and bloggers. Given that the total output of several commenters have now passed the one million word mark, this is not an unreasonable goal. Although “Priss Factor” may have preferred to keep his(?) comments under their 397 separate handles, merging them together puts the total verbiage at a remarkable 1.5 million words, easily placing “Priss Factor” in first place among all commenters and ahead of nearly all our main writers and columnists.

    http://www.unz.com/announcement/major-commenting-enhancements/#p_1_13

    P.s. for the moderators:

    I tried to “Switch Ascending/Descending Order” on Priss’s archives and nothing shows up and I was directed to this link: https://www.unz.com/admin/caching/?CommentOrder=ASC

    When I tried it on my own comments archive, I was directed back to to the Unz Review home page via this link: http://www.unz.com/?CommentOrder=ASC

    All this has probably to do with the security updates Mr. Unz recently implemented due to the attacks on the site:

    And the /comments/ pages are also still temporarily blocked until I finish adding some powerful additional protections against large bot-waves, probably by the end of today.

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/liars-lying-about-nearly-everything-2/#comment-2282354

    Yes, our website was hit by an exceptionally large wave of bots from a very wide variety of different IP addresses, and it began soon after we released this particular article. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps not.

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-israel-and-its-partisans-work-to-censor-the-internet/#comment-2280647

    Thank you.

  224. TT says:
    @denk

    Your comments is getting rare recently. Busy? Love to read your cynical comment on those hypocrite West policies.

  225. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    Related, Tim Harford’s reflections on his recent trip to China.

  226. GammaRay says:
    @anonymous

    Like I said in my initial comment to you, your line of argumentation is extremely disingenuous. You’re trying to play semantics and retroactively apply western legal standards with regards to the land that the native americans were inhabiting at the time. I hope you understand how absurd, stupid and unconvincing this is to anybody else besides yourself. Why should western legal standards apply in a completely foreign and non-western land? The fact that you think that for some reason they should just goes to show how twisted and arrogant your thinking is. No matter how you try to (incompetently) bamboozle everyone with flimsy legalistic justifications based on western legal concepts, the truth of the matter is that the european colonists acted immorally and unethically towards the native americans. They stole the land and displaced the native inhabitants, there is no other way to try to explain it. So stop making weaselly apologetic arguments for it.

    That being said, what you wrote doesn’t change the validity of the original reply that I made to you; which is that in an unexpected way, all of the actions of the west are currently coming back to haunt it. You want to talk about rules and laws and how they bind everyone else? Well, currently the rules and laws of this land are making millions of non-whites into american citizens. And legally speaking, they are just as “american” as you. In the future, america will turn into a majority non-white country, and it will all be done completely legally. There is absolutely nothing you can do about this, and you have practically zero say in the matter. I just find it funny that you try to cavalierly brush off the injustice that the native americans faced with your contorted legalese, but now in the 21st century white america will be racially and culturally transformed through the same legal mechanisms with which you tried to justify the theft of native american land with. Poetic justice is a beautiful thing

    • Replies: @anon
  227. GammaRay says:
    @Antolx

    Your meandering reply addresses none of the points which I brought up. Nor do I care for your attempts to morally shame me. I have no use nor concern with what you consider good or evil. Funny you bring up Japan. You do realize that western interference (colonial policies) directly led to Japan’s involvement in WW2 right? Had there never been any western colonization, then there never would have been a war with Japan since Japan would have had no reason to modernize and militarize itself to begin with. The 20th and 21th centuries are a story of how all of the west’s prior colonial adventures are now coming back to haunt it.

    Its hilarious that you are trying to take the moral high ground when its obvious that the only reason you are trying to do this is because you are unable to argue with the moral logic which I outlaid in my previous response to you. You have no answer for it, this is why you are trying to muddy the waters and take the discussion into a different direction.

    I didn’t say scandinavian colonization was intra-european; this is your fault for lacking good reading comprehension. This is what I wrote:

    1.Scandinavian countries actually did play a direct role in colonization as well as heavily participating in the intra-european economy that was based upon colonial exploitation. You didn’t know about this?

    When I used intra-european, I was referring to the intra-european trade and economy that was based off of the colonial exploitation of both the new world and africa. I was not using intra-european to refer to scandinavian colonial policies. Scandinavian colonial policies were oriented outside of europe, I am making that 100% clear to you since you misunderstood this previously.

    As for what you said regarding eastern europeans, this doesnt change my point. And frankly its sad that this is the only rebuttal you can make, and as such it demonstrates the weakness of your position. You previously implied that eastern europeans were the victims of mass immigration policies, and then I (correctly) told you that your perception was misinformed. You were factually wrong about this, and you were clearly trying to imply that eastern europe was the victim of mass immigration policies and NOT negative media coverage or whatever you are now trying to say.

  228. anon[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I think this wins the record for the longest response ever, deserving of its own column. I enjoyed reading it and agree with a lot of it.

    The dark lesson of meritocracy can be learned from rise of Jewish Power. Whites took a chance on Jews as fellow whites who happened to be Jewish…But since the 80s, Jews use meritocracy to gain elite power and do terrible things to undermine White America.

    What goes around comes around. Now that the Jews are at the top dominating all major institutions in the US, they’ve become the target of all the “anti-white” hatred they’ve been fanning, i.e. all complaints of “white privilege” are actually complaints of “Jew privilege”, e.g.

    - When Asians complain about affirmative action, they are really complaining about Jews because they are the group that benefited the most from legacy admissions and are most over-represented in the Ivy League
    - When blacks complain about OscarSoWhite, they are really complaining about Jews who dominate Hollywood
    - When women and blacks complain about tech industry being sexist and racist, they are really complaining about Jewish males who dominate the top echelon of tech
    - The vast majority of the #metoo movement was basically white gentile women complaining about sexual exploitation by Jewish men in power in media, Hollywood, academia, business, politics.

    Meanwhile, the Muslim refugees that they keep importing have Jews and homos foremost in their crosshair.

    Karma’s a biatch.

  229. “Malthusian pressures”. I thought you meant 25 centuries of mass warfare and killings. East Asia has had much more war and conflict. Europe relatively less so, as it has been less populated historically, and usually by myriads of groups that had to be integrated in more democratic ways. (Obviously, historical developments by single individuals and circumstance can happen).

    Furthermore, I find it funny that the “black redneck” theory is yet again paraded. So blacks were better before, with their West African cultures? As someone who has seen voodoo and santeria, have to disagree. Not to mention, the Scots-Irish could get out of it. And, the Asians that

    I get it, East Asians are so much more productive and self-effacing for the collective good. But by your recount of both IQ inheritance and historical developments, it’s practically impossible to become “East-Asianized” without engaging in the same “Malthusian pressures”, perhaps including mass colonization/intermixing with said Asians.

    Not to mention, the “cult of self-esteem” that went awry in the West since the 60s has its reflection – the cult of self-effacing that makes many Japanese shrivel up in their apartments or head off into the forest after tax season to die. That cult which makes the Chinese dope up for their examinations. Or which drives so many of those people to sunny San Jose County and similar places in America to escape their CCParadise, and form enough clusters so the Tiger Moms can develop enough future rulers.

    Again, not a diss – every single American of Asian culture that is productive is to be thanked. They are the ones who have integrated best into the Western world. However, when/if they cease to play the role of the good minority and assume leadership role over a quite different American culture/people – expect friction. Specially if there is change in elites at the same time, coupled with the cultural/racial strife at the bottom that is coming and will be hard enough as it is.

    All of this assuming East Asians don’t ascribe to the Sowell theory you propose – otherwise, it is probably easier that unless continued migration from Confucian cultures comes to their aid, that they might adopt at least some Western vices. Not the ones you’d think of, but those that are the product of the worship of self esteem that Western capitalism has also lent to youth East Asian culture and modern Asian capitalism already. You mention the Japanese capitalist, I mention the Japanese cosplayer who wants nothing else to do. You mention the One Road Policy, I mention the vast amounts of industrial waste, pollution, and overspending of many of these projects. And so on.

  230. @Thomm

    When you start losing weight, you lose a lot at first.
    Also, not white.

  231. @Thomm

    A statist that lowered taxes and banned unions while catering to the Junker trusts.
    There’s more ways to go right than one. Same as leftism.
    Not that anyone in America really believes in the free-market anymore anyway. If the West had not agreed to adopting some tenets of statism/corporatism since the early 20th century, the whole world might have turned red, blood red.

  232. @JessicaR

    Excellent reply. I would add also that many consuming tech products that the West drugs itself with are made with lots of advances by Asian engineers. Asians probably should know better than feed kids with games and apps that encourage being stuck to screens half of the day. But yet, they do it. For the paycheck. Just like a vile egotist Westerner.

    I do agree that we could learn to be more productive/better organized from Asians – but I don’t believe we could be as self-effacing. At least, I know I cannot.

    Plus, we shouldn’t draw large conclusions from immigrants who can afford to pay plane tickets. You cannot draw conclusions from whiter Miami Hispanics about the rest of them. Middle class Muslims tend to be non-extreme. Similarly, of course East Asians who fly here are going to be from the upper middle class, the most materialist sector of society (blessed with wealth but enticed by the elite over them to earn more and join their ranks). Of course these people will want to be higher achieving, even by East Asian standards. At least, until their kids become Americanized, slowly but surely…

    Oh and the last line from (1), completely describes modern millennial culture. Just hanging out with your buddies and not caring for the rest. We overthink about the saying that goes “friends are the family you choose” – without appreciating the reverse, that “family is the friends God gave you for free”. The breakdown of the family certainly helped. Heavy was the crown of the Golden Age of Capitalism upon young spoiled boomers and their descendants.

  233. @kauchai

    Maybe college might come down a bit in price if foreigners, who also get financial aid (not declaring much taxes here because rich parents are back home) and/or affirmative action, stop flooding the professors with said wads of cash.
    If law of supply and demand holds, if said wads of cash are not there, maybe the professors will exact less dollars from the rest; also, maybe with less Stakhanovite-style competition for overtime, said kleptocrats might have to pay more money for less hours – the beneficiaries including some needed Asian techs, black security guards, Hispanic janitors?
    In short, maybe less of those awful thieving elites will have money/employment in the first place, needing to share it more with the others?

    Sure, we do need always some helpful immigrants to help move along the wheel. The thing is, the quantities these days are big enough to cause friction…

  234. Tyrion 2 says:

    Perhaps two countries with natural resources driving much of their economy are not the best comparisons? Not to mention the relative populations compared to China’s ~1.4 billion

    The large population explains the large number of rich Chinese tourists. It does not, however, represent a particular handicap. China has a very large and protected domestic market.

    As for those two countries, they seemed to me to be attention-grabbing. I might also have selected the Dominican Republic (significantly more productive per person than China) or Thailand or any number of others.

    Perhaps you’ll special plead them all away and China really will be the first world supernation of commenters’ imaginations but I suspect they’ve only been to the Chinese equivalents of Manhattan and don’t realise quite how backwards and poor much of the country is.

    I am curious about this. China seems to be pushing the envelope on industrial development technology at scale. And their rate of growth is incredible. Could you describe more what you mean

    Scale makes things easier as long as you can provide reasonable government that is neither too tribal and therefore venal nor too chaotic. This is China’s best quality.

    All I meant is that when a Chinese person opens a coffee shop they need only visit America to find the latest working model. Or watch a movie. The same point applies to much else.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  235. JIm243 says:
    @GammaRay

    You put it so well, accurately and eloquently. I could not agree with you more.
    Bravo!

  236. @Tyrion 2

    You’re just plainly incorrect in terms of population; sure, you might be right by terms of territory but that’s a ridiculous way to judge a country given the urbanization that the modern world experiences. All wealth is going to be concentrated in a few cities, but so is most of the population.

    Its not “supernation” but its middle class is gigantic and along with purchasing power adjustments:

    https://chinapower.csis.org/china-middle-class/

    http://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-vs-united-states-a-tale-of-two-economies/

    All I can say is to actually visit the country yourself. I’m not trying to be aggressive, but I’m not talking from a point of ignorance, you know, and neither are the other people replying to you. Many of us have friends or family there; some of us are extremely well traveled(and yes, including places like the Middle East).

    The difference is obvious. There’s no arguing that there are people who continue to make 8 dollars a day in the boonies in China, and perhaps it even accounts for a large part of the territory. But it does not mean that its anything close to a majority of the population, or that the wealthy are some sort of super special elite. The amount of disposable income per day in the middle class being spent(some estimated around 300-500 million people, per Business Insider) makes your beliefs silly.

    Beyond that, well, its a multiple-choice world, yes? Believe as you will. You still have at least 12 years or so to hold onto that belief, in my opinion before it becomes impossible otherwise.

  237. Tyrion 2 says:

    You’re just plainly incorrect in terms of population; sure, you might be right by terms of territory but that’s a ridiculous way to judge a country given the urbanization that the modern world experiences. All wealth is going to be concentrated in a few cities, but so is most of the population.

    Thrse are not my figures. They are the World Bank’s, and more. They put the Chinese average below Thailand and the Dominican Republic. Against them, you only offer anecdotes or selective figures.

    All I can say is to actually visit the country yourself. I’m not trying to be aggressive, but I’m not talking from a point of ignorance, you know, and neither are the other people replying to you. Many of us have friends or family there; some of us are extremely well traveled(and yes, including places like the Middle East).

    I’ve spent plenty of time in China. I also know a good number of very well educated Chinese. I dated a girl who completed her undergraduate degree at the Central Party School of the Communist Party of China. I’ve even been in a conversation with a good mate who had recently left their Tier 1 city bubble for the first time and came to the realisation that China still has a very long way to go.

    The difference is obvious. There’s no arguing that there are people who continue to make 8 dollars a day in the boonies in China,

    According to President Xi there’s 40 million making less than 95 cents a day.

    Anyway, the average wage in China is $10,000 a year pre-taxes. It does not take much to figure out therefore that any Chinese able to fly to the US and take a holiday is earning above average. It takes even less to figure out those who can afford US university fees, plus flights, plus living costs are very unrepresentative.

    I gather that for a Chinese to send their kid to US college may require about $80,000 a year. That is obviously entirely impossible for the average Chinese. It probably requires them to be at least top 10% or probably even higher.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Anon
  238. @Tyrion 2

    1)Average Chinese wage(esp. urban) matches Eastern European wages. Not great, but fine enough.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2017/08/16/china-wage-levels-equal-to-or-surpass-parts-of-europe/#3e25b1463e7f

    2)40 million in poverty sounds quite accurate. However, this still gives an extremely conservative estimate of 300 million with significant disposable income, a huge impact.

    3)Agricultural areas are poorer. But 57% of the population is urbanized as of 2016, and the number is increasing.

    4)Living expense in Shanghai, considered the most expensive part of China, is between 40 to 60% lower than in the US. While salary is lower elsewhere, so is the living expense.

    5) GDP per capita is simply GDP divided by population. It is not very representative of living standard: Russia in 2016 sits lower than Africa’s Equatorial Guinea and the debt-stricken Greece.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  239. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    6) I used GDP purchasing power parity in my original post. This is what people can actually buy. It puts the Chinese average below Thailand and the Dominican Republic. It is a fact and not really disputable. Everything else is boring noise.

    2) That is 40 million in extreme poverty. Not just poverty.

    1) That article compares the richest parts of China to the poorest parts of post-Communist Europe, like Albania. It is not good for your argument.

  240. Anon[288] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I gather that for a Chinese to send their kid to US college may require about $80,000 a year. That is obviously entirely impossible for the average Chinese. It probably requires them to be at least top 10% or probably even higher.

    10% of 1.4B = 140Mil. Can you comprehend that number with your arrogant nutty brain after bragging on your experience in China?

    140M of middle – high income group, that is what other commenters tried to convince you that there are simply plenty of wealthy Chinese can afford US study, yet you stubbornly refuse to agree.

    If only 1% of these rich decided to send their under performing children to study in US, we are talking about 1.4M spoilt brats filling up all university’s overseas intake.

    Yet been pigheaded & snobbish, you argued China is poorer than Dominican republic so only the best & richest can study in US.

    East Asian migration to the United States is extremely self-selecting. China really is sending its best.

    Now do justify your most idiotic logic on how US is getting China best talents because study in US is expensive & China is so poor?

  241. anon[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yan Shen

    Well I’ve probably stated this at least 100 times by now, but I’m obviously an American. I have US citizenship, a US passport, and pretty much anything else legally that would identify me as a citizen of this country.

    Sadly no one outside the US will ever consider you a “real” American, and most people inside don’t either, least of all your fellow FOB Chinese. I’ll bet most of them still think of you as one of them, which of course, you are. They say home is where the heart is, it’s clear your heart lies with China. Every one of your articles and comments seeks to glorify China and the Chinese, now you even include Chinese characters. You’re like those Jews who claim to be “American” yet spend all their time and energy promoting the interest of Israel and/or obsessing over being Jewish rather than being American. Time to pack your bags and go back to your real home, America it ain’t.

  242. Tyrion 2 says:

    Goodness, I hope you’re not China’s best and brightest. Your reasoning is not great.

    There’s 1.4 billion Chinese.

    Only the top 10% can afford to send their kids to the US.

    350,000 are in the US at any one time. A further 100,000 study elsewhere.

    10% are of university age.

    Making it 450,000 out of 1.4 million. Furthermore, there is zero reason to suspect that these are selected from the least able of their pool. Such a huge investment in your child’s education is unlikely to be made on entirely barren soil.

    I’d wager that in any society a third of the top 10% earner’s children score well above average on IQ tests.

    Yet been pigheaded & snobbish

    I found the Chinese in China to be the most genuine in their interactions with me of any people in the world. I like the culture and greatly respect what the country has achieved these last few decades. Other than the classical music, there is not much I dislike. (I really don’t get Chinese classical music…)

    On the other hand, I need to be realistic. Below average people almost never study abroad for university, nevermind from relatively poor countries. Your patriotism need not blind you to any less than sycophantic observation.

    I doubt you’d want any less even from your own leaders. I certainly wish ours would be more hard-headed.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  243. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Oh my god. I’m equally stupid. My mistake in my calculations is out as much as yours. Ha.

    Still, the following points stand:

    Furthermore, there is zero reason to suspect that these are selected from the least able of their pool. Such a huge investment in your child’s education is unlikely to be made on entirely barren soil.

    I’d wager that in any society almost all of the top 10% earner’s children score above average on IQ tests.

    Even the English students who go to the US are brighter than average.

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    , @Anon
  244. Ju Ahn says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I actually agree with you on this point. Chinese nominal GDP is also much lower than PPP since Chinese government needs to keep their exchange rate low so their cheap labor stays competitive in the market.

    I don’t think there is much doubt that there is favorable selective immigration factor in assessing the abilities of Chinese and Indian Americans compare to their native population.

    Since there are many International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) team members who currently study in undergraduate institutions of the USA, the assertion that the best and brightest of Chinese undergraduate student pool choose to study locally sounds equally preposterous. Some pointed out that Chinese students who come over for graduate schools tend to be more elite, but that is also an obvious point as people who elect to go to graduate school generally tend to be more intelligent than people who just finish undergraduate degrees.

    From talking to many people of Chinese descent in the past, there is a tendency among them to overestimate their population’s average abilities. Because Chinese people are numerous (1.3 billion in China plus many diaspora outside of the country), the elite among them have a tendency to outperform similar population groups such as Koreans and Japanese people. Any reasonable person would arrive at the conclusion best among 1.3 billion will more likely be better than best among population among 100 million or some population group of lower number. Similar reasoning goes to metropolitan areas such as Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzen, and Hong Kong.

    However, even correcting for selective immigration factor, I still believe native populations of East Asia to have higher general intelligence factor (IQ) than native population of European nations. This is backed by the findings of Lynn’s research and other studies such as PISA and TIMSS.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  245. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    Mr. Ahn,

    I highly recommend this piece by Unz Review commenter Afrosapiens:

    https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    There is actually also some doubt about whether the Chinese are a high-IQ people:

    The manipulation is quite apparent, Lynn largely over-estimated China (+22), Japan (+7) to make East-Asians cluster on top, thus protecting himself from accusations of nordicism and giving support to the inter-cultural validity of the IQs that he cherry-picked.

    http://www.unz.com/jpetras/china-and-the-us-rational-planning-and-lumpen-capitalism/#comment-2066036

    These two comments might be of interest to you:

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/scrabbling-for-excellence/#comment-1911398

    and

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/intelligent-lifespans/#comment-1996218

    http://www.unz.com/jpetras/china-and-the-us-rational-planning-and-lumpen-capitalism/#comment-2067768

    Population size is an important factor to take into account as well in this regard, especially in the case of Iceland, in my opinion. Interestingly, Iceland, I believe, has the highest per capita number of chess grand masters: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/world-map-chess-grandmasters/

    But you are generally correct; it is a combination of a fairly large high-IQ population, culture (Protestantism), resources, geographical location, climate, etc. that leads to discoveries, inventions, prosperity, etc.

    Sweden is a good example, of a relatively small population which contributed disproportionately to the scientific field:
    [...]
    I attribute these Swedish contributions to both nature (higher intelligence, creativity, curiosity) and nurture (entrepreneurial, scientifically-minded, Protestant culture), best exemplified by the Wallenberg Foundations

    http://www.unz.com/jpetras/china-and-the-us-rational-planning-and-lumpen-capitalism/#comment-2068586

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
  246. AaronB says:

    I didn’t read the entire article, but it seems generally interesting and highly relevant to the situation whites find themselves today, if they can only humble themselves enough to listen…

    Some things it gets only half right. One of the reasons whites are so demotivated is because they lack a well defined collective identity they can view positively. In this sense, a basic sense of collective self-esteem is a necessary pre-condition for highly motivated behavior of any kind, as well as realistic and tough self-criticism, or any program of self-improvement.

    The self-esteem movement can be seen as a self-defeating compensation for the radical loss of a genuine feeling of self-worth, generally based on uncritical acceptance by a social community with a clear sense of cultural identity.

    Related to this, whites lack a social support structure. Parents, friends, and society provide little incentive to work hard and little social reward for doing so, creating an environment in which only those with the most enormous egos and self-aggrandizing personalities are able to generate the necessary motivation, reminding one of the lines by Yeats “The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate …”

    Self-defeating cultural beliefs also contribute heavily to white depression and anomie, as the article points out. It’s well known that Asians believe hard work is far more important than innate ability, leading to high levels of motivation, optimism, and self-reliance, while a bizarre and will-sapping cultural belief has taken root among whites that innate ability is the only significant factor in achievement, predictably leading to fatalism and despair.

    Some of the major purveyors of this will-sapping and despair-inducing belief are “white nationalist” writers like Steve Sailer and John Derbyshire, who unwittingly (?) contribute to white depression…probably, this older generation of whites needs to die off before any major cultural revitalization can occur…

    In the final analysis it’s obvious that what Asians possess over whites today is an ethical superiority, which brings into sharp focus the main cause of this strange white deficiency, namely, materialism.

    A materialist won’t attribute much importance to such a nebulous and vapory thing as “effort”, which after all relies on moral qualities, but will readily grant primacy to innate ability, which is thought to reside in the physical organism and happily obviates the need to grapple with such vague and difficult concepts as moral character and personal agency…

    It will be interesting if Asians will be able to transmit their ethical qualities to a white community that has discarded them in favor of a hard materialism that is producing ever diminishing returns….

    • Agree: Yan Shen
    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Daniel Chieh
  247. anon[321] • Disclaimer says:
    @GammaRay

    You clearly have trouble with logic and reasoning, and argue strictly with emotions, like all liberals. Having a discussion with someone like you is a waste of time. Adios.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  248. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    Some things it gets only half right. One of the reasons whites are so demotivated is because they lack a well defined collective identity they can view positively. In this sense, a basic sense of collective self-esteem is a necessary pre-condition for highly motivated behavior of any kind, as well as realistic and tough self-criticism, or any program of self-improvement.

    You’re confusing a sense of inherent dignity with your political hobby horse of collective self-esteem.

    Related to this, whites lack a social support structure. Parents, friends, and society provide little incentive to work hard and little social reward for doing so, creating an environment in which only those with the most enormous egos and self-aggrandizing personalities are able to generate the necessary motivation, reminding one of the lines by Yeats “The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate …”

    Atomisation partly results from the death of social institutions. They have been replaced by the administrative state and the market.

    Perhaps this is a result of the decline of spiritualism in the West but then East Asia, an historically particularly materialistic culture set, would not exactly be the best example of a solution.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  249. Ju Ahn says:
    @FKA Max

    Your data is a joke. Let me first get a quote from the first source you provided that has very inaccurate IQ table.

    “I used data from the United Nation’s Development Program to estimate the average IQ of each country’s adult and school-age population. Adult IQs were estimated from mean years of schooling completed by adults aged 25 and older whereas School-population IQs were estimated based on the expected years of schooling that a student is supposed to complete if the enrollment ratios from primary through tertiary education remain constant. All variables were reported in year 2015.”

    “Estimating IQs from the current school enrollment rates and the mean educational attainment of adults provide insights regarding intergenerational differences in cognitive performance. ”

    I mean like seriously!? You estimate national IQ by number of years complete in schooling? Sounds like pretty questionable methodology. So someone who gets Ph.D. in African American studies or the likes have higher IQ than someone who receives masters degree in STEM field such as Master of Financial Engineering (MFE ) degree.

    Other sources you quoted go into something like the # of chess grandmasters by country. East Asians don’t play much chess. They play Go. Plus, the correlation between chess ability and IQ or other aptitude is pretty weak. It’s better to estimate IQ by actual IQ tests or other aptitude tests than something arbitrary like chess playing abilities.

    You claim Lynn inflated Asian IQ so as not to seem white supremacist but quote questionable source that uses number of education completed to estimate IQ to back up your claim. I don’t think anyone will take such sources seriously since the writer doesn’t even know about IQ and psychometrics.

    “The manipulation is quite apparent, Lynn largely over-estimated China (+22), Japan (+7) to make East-Asians cluster on top, thus protecting himself from accusations of nordicism and giving support to the inter-cultural validity of the IQs that he cherry-picked.”

    All quoted statements in this replay comes from https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/
    which is the source you mentioned.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  250. Tyrion 2 says:

    However, even correcting for selective immigration factor, I still believe native populations of East Asia to have higher general intelligence factor (IQ) than native population of European nations. This is backed by the findings of Lynn’s research and other studies such as PISA and TIMSS

    While this is entirely possible, I am far from convinced by the evidence either way.

    I just don’t see a whole lot of research into what would be a very difficult phenomenon to nail down. The taboo around the issue is immensely frustrating, especially as we begin to move into an age where we might use gene editing to benefit from such research.

    Difficulties in even seeing test results as representative include whether those tests are seen as high-stakes by the takers as well, of course, as whether or not the samples are representative.

    I personally took one such test in an intoxicated state as a teen as I correctly perceived it to be irrelevant and boring and preferred to have fun beforehand.

    I have a personal IQ test I apply to people I meet and engage in serious discussion. Would they take the high or low score of their group as important to their self-appraisal regardless of their own score? In other words, does Yao Ming consider himself to be short because Chinese tend to be a bit shorter than Northern Europeans? This then allows me to sort people into simple ‘intelligent enough’ and ‘stupid’ groupings.

    I wonder what the ratio is between these two groupings on this thread.

  251. @AaronB

    Some things it gets only half right. One of the reasons whites are so demotivated is because they lack a well defined collective identity they can view positively.

    I’ve been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around “white.” Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around “yellow.” There’s not really enough cultural glue for it to work. I’ve been around Alt-Right groups for quite some time and ultimately they all fail(and pretty rapidly) for that reason(and a few others): with an essentially hollow core, they swiftly collapse upon themselves.

    I think you’ve talked about this as cultural depth and ultimately it is highly associated with having any meaning for life at all; the essential death of mysticism which when pronounced, really does induce existential despair with the added evil that the rational denies it. Nick Land once said that horror is realizing that everyone else around you is an android made to resemble a human; existential horror is realizing that you, too, are one who is programmed to believe that he is human. The destruction of all irrational components is hazardous to our conception of the world, and perhaps not even survivable. There’s a quite chthonic horror in realizing that the very tools that one wishes to “save” his reality, is the very tools that poison himself.

    4chan is interesting in that sense; do you know something that /pol/ does, arguably one of the most resilient “alt-right” hubs? They play around with the idea that the randomly generated numbers of the posts if digits appear in “doubles” or “triples” might give the statement greater validity. So if a post said “The world will end” and gets the number 77777, it is seen by “kek” people as having great truth and power. Its playing around(with a few exception of true believers), but that little playing around is…powerful. It provides irrational hope, and it always draws a lot of “players.”

    Perhaps life without any irrational, mystic qualities is life not worth living at all. There’s a non-trivial consideration that is the logic behind Fukuyama’s End of History, where reason has eliminated all choices except the most technical ones(4% interest or 5% interest?). And even he commented on how boring it would be.

    The death of the flesh follows the death of the spirit.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @res
    , @James Forrestal
  252. Anonymous[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    >”And too many of them have mixed with bimbos who bring down Jewish IQ or with Asian women who bring down chutzpah quotient as Asians are servile than chutzpahistic.”<

    I think it is like that for the kids. Plus by the deep state.

  253. Anonymous[354] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    ”Because Jews are white, they could have made common cause with white gentiles. But they chose not to. And they are now using their immense power to finish off the white race.”

    No they are not. A lot of jews love white people and they would never do that. And also a lot of white people love jewish people. They see jewish people as white people. And they are white. Most alt-righters are actualy alt-’whiters’.

  254. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    You’re absolutely right about that. “Whiteness” is itself an abstraction. of the worst kind, a product of the kind of overly logical thinking that has gotten us into this mess. It utterly lacks concreteness and the rich and dense emotional associations that are necessary ingredients for a collective mystique.

    However, a viable collective mystique – a sense of “peoplehood” – must contain some kind of ethnic component – a feeling of shared genetic heritage and collective fate, as a crucial element of this is a sense of gratitude and obligation towards ancestors as well as towards posterity.

    One of the silliest mistakes is to think this ethnic component must be “pure” – in fact all current “peoples” are the product of millenia of mixing of countless distinct tribes and occasionally even races – and another silly mistake is to focus exclusively on the genetic component, which is an abstraction, to the detriment of culture, place, and tradition, which are concrete, and capable of generating intense emotions.

    I think the era of “white America” is over and cannot be recovered – some kind of political break up will occur, and we will see the emergence of regional identities that will increasingly be a fusion of disparate ethnic elements, and which will in time develop into traditional nations with a distinct ethnic profile and a collective mystique based on emotional attachments to place, a sense of shared genetic identity, and the gradual build up of a “tradition”.

    However, for whites to take part in this emerging order they must first develop the barest rudiments of a collective identity – perhaps they should call themselves “original Americans”? or “European Americans”? and emphasize the American culture from its inception till around 1950? – and re-learn to identify with a collective and discard the corrosive individualism, atomization, and materialism that has destroyed their self-confidence and rendered them weak and powerless in the face of other American tribes.

    On this basis of renewed self-love, whites can confidently enter into relations with other ethnic groups and participate in the process of forging a new nation. A renewed appreciation for collective identity is an indispensable element if whites are to relearn the skills needed to participate on a genuine “nation”.

    Love of others starts with love of self – it’s a widening circles outwards.

    And you’re absolutely right that appreciation for non-rational factors is crucial for human flourishing – my favorite recent analogy is “dark matter”, you can’t see it but assuming it’s existence is indispensable for certain systems to function effectively.

    Ultimately, the Western reification of “truth”, “certainty”, and “absolute clarity”, led to a narrower and narrower circle of what could be accepted – leading to the abandonment of many assumptions necessary to our ability to thrive in this world. The funny thing is – the cutting edge of logic shows that if applied consistently logic becomes incoherent and thus cannot be anything more than a “useful fiction” (Kant, Nagarjuna), and science shows that as biological organisms our minds have evolved to only ever give us “useful fictions”, and so logic itself indicates we have no reason to give up other so called “useful fictions” that cannot be “clearly” proven but seem baked into the nature of things as necessary conditions for the effective functioning of organic systems known as “humans”.

    But popular culture has not caught up with these developments!

    You know, these days I only watch European and Asian shows on Netflix as a way of insulating myself from American cultural rot.

    I was recently watching this Japanese drama where the villain is a writer who insists on his books being absolutely “logical” and clear, while the oppressed but sympathetic hero advocates for vagueness, unclarity, the non logical and emotional thinking – it was such a striking defense of anti-Western thinking in a nation which is considered the world’s preeminent master of “logical” technology!

    I mentioned on another thread that Asians (primarily but not exclusively within Asia or recent arrivals) strike me these days as so much more full of emotional expressiveness and eccentricity, and white Americans seem by contrast bland, drone like, and robotic – I wonder how much Asian stereotypes are projections of our own faults!

    The stereotype of the Asian “drone” is so wrong as to be striking – one is struck by how Asians are highly emotional and expressive.

    Surely the Asian ethical superiority has its roots in an appreciation for non-rational and emotional factors, while their mastery of technology shows logic can be successfuly utilized as a limited “useful fiction”.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  255. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Infantilism

  256. res says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I’ve been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around “white.” Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around “yellow.” There’s not really enough cultural glue for it to work.

    Interesting observation. A counterpoint is how the presence of varying degrees of outsiders affects the cohesion of varying levels of concentric loyalties.

    In any case, I think your point highlights the insanity of taking an already heterogeneous United States and overwhelming it with ever more divergent groups. Especially without even a willingness to pause for assimilation. And even more especially when those divergent groups seem to be actively hostile to the historical and existing culture here.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Yan Shen
  257. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    It’s a western romantic fiction that “inherent dignity” can be successfuly maintained outside of a collective support structure – it’s s fiction that our public identities are stable and enduring. We are powerfully influenced in a thousand small and large ways by our society and environment, and we live in a “sticky web” of influences that we cannot extricate ourselves from or even fully understand. We are not individual units. Individual predisposition obviously plays a role – but the idea that “inherent integrity” doesn’t massively benefit from an appropriate social support structure and isn’t massively undermined by the lack of one is an error that is increasingly hard to maintain.

    I will tell you this…the ONLY way to successfully lose weight is, for instance, to have skinny friends or live in a thin country….

    In Japan if a student is failing in one subject the parties considered responsible are parents, family, friends, and ALL his teachers. They are all brought together in an attempt to solve the problem….now tell me again how Japan ranks on the Pisa tests compared to our wonderful Americans with “inherent integrity”?

    Asians are “unspiritual” and pragmatic – lol another stereotype that is an obvious projection of our own shadow side. European science is the world’s paradigmatic example of an entire culture shifting to the merely pragmatic that will not likely ever be surpassed.

    Asians of course have a side to their culture that heavily emphasizes the pragmatic, that cannot be denied – but it’s only crude binary thinking that sees a complete separation between the two. In a sense this is precisely our weakness – the pragmatic and the spiritual interpenetrate and ones efforts in the practical realm cannot flourish if one is not spiritually healthy – a fact we are learning.

    And Tyrion, it’s pretty obvious that as a Jewish nationalist you’re just threatened by Asians….

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Yan Shen
  258. @Ju Ahn

    “…immigration to South Korea is low due to strict immigration policies”
    “Most immigrants are not eligible for citizenship or even permanent residency, unless they are married to a South Korean citizen or have invested more than $5 million USD in the local economy”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_South_Korea

    And of course, North Korea = juche. No racial element to that at all, hmm?

    Open borders for thee, but not for me…

    • Troll: Ju Ahn
    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
  259. @GammaRay

    So your’e arguing that the Turks should give back Constantinople to the Greeks? OK

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  260. @Ju Ahn

    And of course, people China or Korea would accept a White person as “really Chinese” or “really Korean” if they somehow managed to gain citizenship there, right? Sounds legit.

    Or is it only America that has the “magic dirt?” The slate is blank here, but not over there? Yeah, that makes sense.

  261. @Wizard of Oz

    My point, of course, is that Disraeli wanted to have it both ways. He wanted to be seen as “truly English,” while identifying with a different group, whose interests often differed from those of the English. To use his own terms, the “Anglo-Saxon race” and the “Jewish race.”

    Of course, this is still a very relevant concept today — see AIPAC, etc.

    Disraeli’s use of the term “Hebrew Arabs” in some of his work (“Coningsby” for example) is another interesting indication of how he viewed his identity.

    There are certainly some interesting interactions between the two groups, as your use of the term “British imperialism” alludes to. The opium wars served to protect the Sassoon-controlled opium trade. And who were Rhode’s financial backers?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  262. @Yan Shen

    If you visit China, will they see you as an “American,” or as an “overseas Chinese?”

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Yan Shen
  263. @Ju Ahn

    “I’ve seen plenty of Nordicists on WN forums.”

    Uh, you realize that the vast majority of these “Italians aren’t White!” people are divide and conquer trolls from an entirely different ethnic group, don’t you? It’s a very common (and effective) technique.

    Very few people these days could even correctly describe the old Nordic/ Alpine/ Mediterranean model.

  264. @Daniel Chieh

    “I’ve been thinking about this lately and I believe that honestly part of the error is the fact that white nationalists even attempt to create an identity around “white.” Its really as futile as Asians attempting to create an identity around “yellow.” There’s not really enough cultural glue for it to work.”

    Of course. But this is not an accident. They’re not really trying to “create” an identity, but regain one. The historic American nation is White, with Anglo-Protestant roots, but with significant incorporation of other groups that were closely related, both genetically and culturally. In the American context, this is what “White” refers to. See the book “Albion’s Seed,” for example. The concept of “American” has been hijacked with Blank Slate propaganda, going all the way back to the “Melting Pot” canard (which originated with a play written by an ardent Zionist), and continuing with meaningless memes such as “proposition nation,” clearly counterfactual ones like “diversity is our strength,” etc.

    This identity does not have nearly the depth (or length of history) that most European identities do, and it has been under sustained cultural and demographic assault for many years, so it’s hardly surprising that it’s now weak.

    “the essential death of mysticism which when pronounced, really does induce existential despair with the added evil that the rational denies it.”

    Yeah, Christianity is also constantly attacked/ undermined by our hostile elite as well, of course. and for precisely this reason.

    TL;DR: you can’t have a country without a nation; without a people.* The fact that it is possible for an alien, hostile elite to deconstruct that nation’s identity, and to overwhelm it with “diverse” settlers, does not in anyway falsify that self-evident truth. Can that identity be rebuilt?

    How many “Israelis” were there in 1900?

    *This is the origin of the term “nation-state,” of course. It’s not redundant; the two are not synonymous.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  265. Punju says:
    @TT

    “Tibet become part of China by historical reason”

    Tibetan script/writing system is so similar to North Indian languages. Should it not be like some Chinese language? Just trying to understand and not questioning the fact that Tibet is part of China and will stay that way.

    You are right that Tibet benefits economically by staying close to China. But then Others could argue that Taiwan, HongKong should have stayed close to the west for economic reasons but that was considered imperialistic attitude.

    • Replies: @TT
  266. @Yan Shen

    “Well since one of the themes of this article was the hypocrisy of the right-wing white-wing, despite their pretensions to fairness and universality, let me call out this little bit of sanctimony as well.”

    They’re merely pointing out that the “proposition nation” meme is nonsensical, and that people like you employ it tactically; claiming that it’s somehow invalid for those of European descent to claim any organic identity, that we have a moral obligation to “deconstruct Whiteness.” Meanwhile, all other forms of racial/ cultural identity are not only valid, but something to be celebrated, of course.

    No one is claiming that your openly-expressed Han racial supremacism is somehow invalid. It’s not surprising that someone would support their own people. They’re merely pointing out that it’s there… and that it’s grossly inconsistent with your support for the officially-endorsed canards of the current year: the Blank Slate, the Magic Dirt, and the Proposition Nation.

    The hypocrisy is all on your side.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
  267. @James Forrestal

    They will see him as: “American-Chinese.”

    The reality is that people like us are in reality essentially the out-group everywhere.

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  268. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    And Tyrion, it’s pretty obvious that as a Jewish nationalist you’re just threatened by Asians….

    I’m a British nationalist and an intellectual Sinophile. Furthermore, as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.

    I will tell you this…the ONLY way to successfully lose weight is, for instance, to have skinny friends or live in a thin country….

    Obviously not true even if it certainly helps. You’re engaging in your customary splitting again.

    Perhaps if you had a greater sense of your inherent dignity you’d be a bit less BPD.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @res
  269. @res

    I’ve spent a lot of time in Europe before the recent waves of mass immigration, and I think its a chicken and egg question. I spent a lot of my time in Finland, for example, which is pretty low on immigration and you still sense the overarching despair: many of the young seek to escape to the US with the idea that they can then find joy here!

    Its my opinion that it really is the deeper sickness that AaronB refers to, a certain collapse of confidence in all of the aspects of life that made life organic, especially religion but a huge number of non-religious rituals too(pre-industrialization, domestic economy, expectations of a life cycle, social contract, etc.).

    From what I saw, I felt this: Diversity, etc, is emblematic of a few things: one being an effort to continue to support socialism through increasing the population for taxation, and a substitution for a new kind of religion of progress. In short, it is a secondary illness and thus watching the alt-right fight it so much is essentially watching frantic people scrap mold off a dying cat. The heart is failing – mold might be worsening the issue, but it won’t save the animal. Death comes, the most that can be said is that they get to choose the form of the destroyer. Heh.

    This isn’t, of course, isolated to the West. Modernity is acid. East Asia has been hit pretty bad too; insofar as it survives, its because it had enough cultural depth that losing so much of it still allowed something to linger. Well, maybe. The jury is still out, I think. Anomie is pretty common in East Asia, and the Japanese birth rate isn’t thrilling.

    I return to Nick Land again: “Capitalism was a speciation event.” Modernization has been an effect on humanity such that it wrecks the very definition of human, makes a mockery of society, and all customs. Who is to say that hope, sanity or even life will survive it?

  270. @James Forrestal

    How many “Israelis” were there in 1900?

    Plenty enough. The Jewish have been extremely capable of surviving as an identity without being either in the majority or having territory. In that sense, AaronB has much to teach.

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  271. Yan Shen says:
    @AaronB

    I find myself in agreement with most of what you’ve stated in this thread. I think someone like Richard Nisbett would argue that Westerners are far more susceptible to the fundamental attribution error than are East Asians. I think this also explains why white nationalists like Jared Taylor or John Derbyshire are always going on endlessly about blacks, while I’ve argued the Chinese in Africa today have adopted much more of an attitude of Confucian paternalism.

    This is a somewhat famous clip from a documentary that many white nationalist types have excitedly jumped on as an example of a Chinese guy telling blacks that they’re basically incapable of anything, which obviously is a highly flawed interpretation if you actually watch the video.

    I could never imagine someone like Derbyshire in a million years having this kind of conversation with any black person. To the contrary, he seems to have decided to devote his life’s mission to preaching the most important fact in the world, that on average blacks are less intelligent and more violent compared to members of other ethnic groups. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with this as a matter of fact, but I wonder if a more productive message isn’t to teach everyone how to get the most out of their innate capabilities by adopting the right cultural values. (Derbyshire actually gave a talk on just such a topic at Penn Law some number of years back, at the invitation of Amy Wax and the black student’s association at the law school as well.)

    Instead, as you correctly point out, these so-called white nationalist writers offer no moral edification or wisdom of any kind, but are nothing more than mere prophets of fatalistic doom and gloom. One of my motivations for writing this article was what I perceived to be the pervasive cultural rot in contemporary American society. Many people have correctly pointed out that America stands at the edge of a precipice as over the coming decades blacks and Hispanics will surely eventually become a combined majority in this country. Now more than ever is when we should be fighting to instill the right ethos among Americans of all stripes.

    Sadly, in today’s insane American society, it often seems like the extremist voices are the only ones that end up being heard. When seemingly your only choices are Social Justice Jihadis on the one hand, and right-wing fanatics like Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, and John Derbyshire on the other, it’s not a surprise that some bespectacled Korean guy ends up being by far the most sane person in the building. Or for instance that Chinese guy in the Democratic Republic of Congo…

    • Agree: GammaRay
  272. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.

    Because of a lack of exposure to Jews, but this is changing fast, especially in America. I do a lot of business with recent Chinese arrivals in America, and I have observed on another thread that there is growing trend of anti-Semitism among Chinese.

    Um, I guess there’s always the hope of space exploration revealing an alien species that will have “a complete absence of anti-Semitism”? For a while, at least… :)

    intellectual Sinophile

    Sure, Tyrion, sure :)

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @Anon
  273. Yan Shen says:
    @res

    One of the most interesting things about modern day white nationalism is how much more boring it is compared to the race realism of old-school guys like Lothrop Stoddard or Madison Grant.

    While before we used to get all sorts of interesting and fine grained distinctions among the various white sub-races, such as Northern vs Southern vs Eastern Europeans, today’s race realists basically tend to treat major racial groups such as blacks or whites as monolithic entities. Even in the case of blacks, this may be a flawed conception, as I’ve pointed out elsewhere regarding the possibility of cognitively elite sub-groups such as the Igbo or the Yoruba.

    I seem to recall that some guy named Adolf Hitler expended a tremendous amount of effort and energy in trying to wipe out the Slavic Russians from the face of planet earth. Today though, even the most ardently neo-Nazi websites like Stormfront tend to frown upon explicitly Nordicist points of view. I’ve seen moderators there threaten to ban commenters for challenging collective white pride and identity by advocating for evil, evil philosophies such as Nordic superiority over Eastern and Southern Europeans. I suppose in some ways this is rather heartening in the sense that while only some decades ago white Europeans seemed hell-bent on killing each other and trying to wipe one another off of the face of planet Earth, today’s neo-Nazis seem to have relatively little in common with the actual Nazis of yore and instead preach worldwide white harmony.

    Since you bring up the highly salient concept of differing levels of concentric loyalties, I suppose if American white nationalists ever got the all-white ethnostate they’re always going on endlessly about, maybe some of those old intra-white animosities would resurface again all of a sudden…

  274. Yan Shen says:
    @James Forrestal

    http://www.8asians.com/2013/04/30/the-abc-and-fob-divide/

    I think you vastly overstate the case for worldwide ethnic Chinese solidarity. Even in the US, there’s oftentimes a clear social divide between ABCs and FOBs.

  275. @AaronB

    And you’re absolutely right that appreciation for non-rational factors is crucial for human flourishing – my favorite recent analogy is “dark matter”, you can’t see it but assuming it’s existence is indispensable for certain systems to function effectively.

    I really like this analogy. And it brings an appropriate humility, I think, because we as humans seem to be really gleeful to jump to simplistic understandings of the universe but as part of my urge for epistemic virtues(as you well know of me), I’ve come to realize that our ignorance is vast and many of the stories we tell ourselves are but paper-bridges folded in our heads to explain that which is missing. Dark matter is a great example of this missing, yet vital part of the universe.

    I, of course, appreciate the beauty of emotional, romantic thinking. One of my great disappointments in the world was the gradual erosion of Weber’s “enchanted world,” the destruction of which came even as Sagan spoke of the end of the “demon-haunted world.”

    Well, Sagan did speak of the present:

    ‘I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or my grandchildren’s time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantative content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.’

    Its an interesting thought, at any rate.

    I do agree with you about fiction. I don’t have much time to watch anything these days – adulthood is a drag, I tell you and Unz does the rest – but my wife(who is white) pretty much only watches Asian fiction these days and a few French things unless her friends insist on her to watch something with them(because, you know, American culture these days is cable TV). I’m not sure if its the cynicism or the poz or what is it, but pop fiction with the exception of Hollywood movies(with great technical skill) is pretty terrible. It somehow has managed to make itself about “love” but is completely absent of anything like romantic love that we can recognize, for one example.

  276. @Yan Shen

    There was plenty of efforts of paternalism among whites. Most Confederate leaders behaved in such a manner, in fact.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  277. res says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Furthermore, as a Jew I can only respect the Chinese people’s complete lack of anti-Semitism.

    Interesting.

    https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/05/14/is-china-anti-semitic-one-jews-reflections/

  278. Tyrion 2 says:
    @AaronB

    There’s no history of serious British anti-Semitism stretching all the way back to Cromwell.

  279. Ju Ahn says:
    @James Forrestal

    Yes, Wikipedia is always right. I suggest you review the source quoted by wikipedia whenever something questionable appears there.

    Similar policy exists for the US,
    I suggest you review our national immigration policy before criticizing other countries.

    “Green Card for Immigrant Investors
    U.S. immigration law allows certain foreign nationals who are employment-based immigrants to become lawful permanent residents (get a Green Card). One employment-based (EB) “preference immigrant” category includes foreign nationals who have invested or are actively in the process of investing $1 million (or $500,000 in targeted employment areas) in a new commercial enterprise that will benefit the U.S. economy and create at least 10 full-time positions for qualifying employees. These foreign nationals are also called “EB-5 immigrant investors” because they are in the employment-based fifth preference visa category. See the EB-5 Immigrant Investor Program for more information about this visa category.”

    https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/investors

    “The following persons are eligible to apply for permanent residency

    - Those who are adults by Korea’s civil law and have stayed in Korea with F-2 Status for more than five years ,and ① have financial capacity to support themselves and their family ② have attainments such as being well-behaved and understanding Korean traditions enough to stay permanently in Korea, or
    - Those who have invested more than 500,000 USD in Korea and have stayed in Korea with D-8 Status for more than three years, while contributing to creating employment opportunities for Korean nationals (more than 5 Koreans), or
    - Those who have invested more than 5,000,000 USD in Korea and whose acquisition of Permanent Residency is deemed proper by the Justice Minister, or
    - Those who have special contributions to Korea and whose special contributions are recognized by the Justice Minister”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20071212091356/http://www.dh.go.kr/open_content/english/goverment/09_04_08.htm

    Pretty sure policies for both nations are similar. Apart from the fact that US liberals also want to grant citizenship to illegals through DACA and other pathways to citizenship programs. Other exceptions include refugee programs and such.

  280. @Ju Ahn

    Even Japan, which is easily the most clearly ethnocentric of East Asian nations(short of Great! Juche! Purity! Cleanliness!) has a fairly lax immigration policy for the qualified(as in holding a doctorate or otherwise considered skilled workers, but especially engineers and doctors). The idea that East Asian countries has some sort of super exclusionary racial policy has always been based out of hilarious ignorance.

    China, for its part, specifically has just opened an immigration initiative to draw in non-Chinese co-ethnics into China.

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
  281. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    This data is not a joke. It just doesn’t conform to your worldview.

    How much does education improve intelligence? A meta-analysis. EDUCATION AND INTELLIGENCE METAANALYSIS. 2017
    Stuart J. Ritchie & Elliot M. Tucker-Drob.

    https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Education-Intelligence%20Meta-Analysis%2007Nov1

    Intelligence test scores and educational duration are positively correlated. This correlation can be interpreted in two ways: students with greater propensity for intelligence go on to complete more education, or a longer education increases intelligence. We meta-analysed three categories of quasi-experimental studies of educational effects on intelligence: those estimating education-intelligence associations after controlling for earlier intelligence, those using compulsory schooling policy changes as instrumental variables, and those using regression-discontinuity designs on school-entry age cut offs. Across 142 effect sizes from 42 data sets involving over 600,000 participants, we found consistent evidence for beneficial effects of education on cognitive abilities, of approximately 1 to 5 IQ points for an additional year of education. Moderator analyses indicated that the effects persisted across the lifespan, and were present on all broad categories of cognitive ability studied. Education appears to be the most consistent, robust, and durable method yet to be identified for raising intelligence.

    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/boost-your-iq/#p_1_24

    More here: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2070567

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    , @Ju Ahn
  282. Ju Ahn says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Yes, these white people who complain about East Asian nations and people’s racist tendencies likely has never set foot in East Asia or just have been there for few days as tourists.

    If anything white people are generally greeted with tremendous welcome throughout East Asia, and some Chinese company even hired professional white man to represent them so that their business appear more competitive. Some white people complain that they have problem being actually accepted as one of the “Asians” in countries such as Korea, but I suspect a lot of this also has to do with language and cultural barriers. Unlike East Asians in European nations, white people in East Asia tend to be generally pretty bad at East Asian languages and even good speakers among them tend to generally exhibit the same level of language proficiency average ESL students exhibit here. Compare this to many East Asians in the US who outscore even educated American people in SAT-V or Writing, or GRE Verbal/Writing portion.

    Futhermore, you never hear about any white people brutally murdered or beaten up in racially motivated crimes in East Asia, while the lynching of Asian people by Russian skinheads or overly protective homeowners in the US is heard from time to time. Actually, the opposite is heard much more commonly, unruly US military personnel committing crimes in Japan or Korea.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  283. Ju Ahn says:
    @FKA Max

    I never disagreed with statements like intelligence is innate qualities that cannot be improved with education or training. I’m simply stating whether by birth or innate nature or culture for valuing intelligence and studying, East Asians tend to exhibit higher IQ today. But trying to figure someone’s intelligence by number of years of education completed is utter joke. The source you quoted is a joke.

    In addition, is it just a coincidence that many East Asians dominate intelligence competitions such as IMO, IPhO, Putnam, and others? As well as getting higher scores on PISA and TIMMS. Notice I’m quoting at least proper aptitude test scores. Whereas your claim is based on some guesswork such as number of schools individuals have completed, chess playing abilities, and some other questionable roundabouts ways in which white people can claim superiority.

    I also don’t say stuff like East Asian people are superior in intelligence because top 500 Go players in the world happen to be East Asians which is the same reasoning your chess grandmaster example is making.

  284. Ju Ahn says:
    @FKA Max

    You’re mistaking correlation with causation or treating it as some other substitute to measure some other quality certain attribute is correlated with (in this case using education to measure IQ).
    However, I already debunked your methodology. For example, wealth and height is also positively correlated with IQ. So, Donald Trump is more intelligent than Albert Einstein (wealth), and Shaquille O’Neal is more intelligent than Stephen Hawking (height). Even comparing population groups Saudi Arabia has higher wealth per capita than China and average Brazilians are taller than Japanese people.

    https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    So this source is not only politically incorrect, but also scientifically and factually incorrect. The only reason China scores low is their rural population don’t get as many years of schooling as developed western countries. It is laughable how you quote some data cooked up by some WN to further their propaganda.

    Propensity to believe false news or reports like this without questioning is a sign of low IQ and also the reason why we had so much controversy about fake news on facebook during presidential elections.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @FKA Max
  285. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Ju Ahn

    There’s a great many more Eastern people living in each Western* country than there are Western people living in each Eastern country. Nor is this a mere historical artefact as immigration continues to be extremely one-sided.

    Your posts, though I find much to agree with, seem to deny every possible reasonable explanation for this fact.

    I am wondering what is left?

    *Western = native Western European and settled by Western Europeans.

  286. @James Forrestal

    Interesting to extend your thought experiment of Disraeli as a kind of one man AIPAC (with some Jewish network substituted for Israel). But I don’t think it is easy to make it work. He was a highly imaginative novelist, something too of a charmer and fantasist. Think of the way Lloyd George was an outsider able to fascinate people.

    Remembering that he was an Anglican who had achieved success in life as a conventional upper middle class Englishman whose base for glory was the greatness of Britain not the network of Jewry I would guess that Jewishness was part of his fantasy life and inspiration as a storyteller rather than an AIPAC type divided loyalty.

    As to the Opium Wars I always thought the Scottish Jardine Mathieson were more significant than the Sassoons. As to the Sassoons it may be important to remember that they were Sephardi (anyway not Ashkenazi, and very exotic before they became English gentlemen) and – I am just skipping through memories – English enough to produce Siegfried Sassoon the WW1 officer and poet.

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  287. @Yan Shen

    I know enough Overseas Chinese to see those from SE Asia as likely to be the staunchest supporters of Australia’s better values including freedoms and that doesn’t apply to great China chauvinists from China – though that wouldn’t be a description of those who e.g. stayed after the Tianmen Square repression.

  288. GammaRay says:
    @James Forrestal

    Like most alt-righters/white nationalists, you have strong pretensions of intellectualism but then when push comes to shove, you don’t hesitate to display your own intellectual laziness. I clearly stated that I was not making any moral arguments against colonialism itself, but rather I was making these two separate arguments regarding colonialism:

    1.the importance of being internally consistent about your views regarding your own cultural/racial survival and your attitudes towards colonial actions carried out by the group which you identify yourself with.

    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.

    The alt-right/white nationalists have the right to make moral/ethical arguments against mass immigration and multiculturalism only if they first amend their current apologetic stance regarding the western colonization of the world. If they are unable or unwilling to do this, then any arguments they make regarding the morality/ethicalness of mass immigration to the west will not be taken seriously by anybody. Who values the word of a hypocrite? Nobody

    2.Practically speaking (all moral considerations aside), it strongly appears that the west has set itself up for disaster by inadvertently setting the stage for globalization, which in turn allowed mass-immigration to manifest by providing the technological and political framework necessary for it to happen in the first place. Had western colonization never happened then the rest of the world outside of europe would still be stuck in a timeless, relatively technologically unadvanced state. It was the west that brought the rest of the world into the modern age, kicking and screaming. Don’t forget that. And now it is the west that will inadvertently end up paying the price for it. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

    You are free to re-read every word of my previous post. You obviously did not take the time to digest what I was saying, because if you did then it would be clear that your rebuttal is actually misplaced, and furthermore, you are trying to make a rhetorical point in response to an argument which I was never making in the first place. You are trying to claim that I am making the argument that everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds, when in fact I was never making that argument to begin with. The only arguments I was making was one of being morally consistent, and also that of dealing with unintended consequences. Your one liner drive by comment fails to debunk either of the arguments which I put forth. Nice try? You deserve an F for effort though ;) As I said before, most alt-righters/white nationalists lack the ability (willingness?) to really think about their political platform and ensure that it is based upon a logical and morally consistent foundation. Instead they base their arguments on raw emotions, indignation (and a LARGE dose of vitriolic racism) and then wonder why they are marginalized by the mainstream. LOL, keep cucking yourselves guys

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  289. Yan Shen says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I wouldn’t overstate the extent to which East Asians live in the West. Take for example the Chinese. There are something like 50 million or so overseas Chinese, but the majority of them live in Southeast Asia.

    By my estimate there are probably something like 10-12 million Chinese living in the West as its broadly defined, but out of those 5 million live in one country, the US, and another 3.6 million live in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK. So the vast majority of Chinese living in the West are concentrated in the Anglosphere.

    But really compared to the mainland population of over 1380 million, all of those numbers are insignificant. I think the other point here is that it’s a bit misleading to conflate the West as a whole with the Anglosphere specifically, as increasingly the non-Anglosphere West is becoming more and more marginal over the course of the 21st century…

    There’s a reason why VC and tech is essentially a two man battle between Silicon Valley and China!

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  290. GammaRay says:
    @anon

    I have no problem with logic and reasoning, and if I do, then please point out where. You clearly made the argument that in a legal sense, the displacement of the native americans and the colonization of america was completely justified. Is this or is this not a faithful representation of what you said? Subsequently I pointed out that by following your legalistic logic, the identity of white america will also inevitably transform due to granting millions of non-white people american citizenship. Thus, your own arguments bind you if we apply them consistently. Just as the displacement of the native americans was legally cemented and justified, so can the same be said regarding the “displacement” of white americans via legal non-white mass immigration. Is there any flaw in my argument here? If there is, please feel free to point it out. I am merely utilizing the same logic which you insisted was correct in the first place.

    I suspect that you realize the fatal flaw in your argumentation as well; that is why instead of engaging me and clearly showing where I have trouble with logic and reasoning, you instead try to claim that arguing with someone like me is a “waste of time” and then hightail it out of here. Actions speak louder than words you know, and currently it looks like you lack confidence in your own position, and that is why you are apparently unwilling to defend it.

  291. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    It is laughable how you quote some data cooked up by some WN to further their propaganda.

    He is a Hatian living in France engaged to a Jewish woman. He is no white nationalist.

    That’s only in your dreams. I’m Haitian-born, I have not grown up to speak creole or practice voodoo, not even a slight West Indian accent or a propensity for superstition. I went several times to Haiti and I didn’t tell myself “Oh, I’m finally finding my people”. They were foreigners (or more accurately: I was a foreigner), as foreign as Russians or Javanese. And there is no need to be adopted to realize this. My fiancée is French of Moroccan Jewish ancestry, Israeli are foreigners to her, even if they’re Moroccan too. Because the way she/we live is French and very little else.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/#comment-2066137

    White nationalists usually cite and quote Richard Lynn like you do.

    Propensity to believe false news or reports like this without questioning is a sign of low IQ and also the reason why we had so much controversy about fake news on facebook during presidential elections.

    Pure HC propaganda…

    Han Chauvinism/Exceptionalism: The Problem with it

    Western observers often measure China’s racial composition and relations based on a Western scale, looking for an Eastern equivalent to white supremacy. This is easily found in “Han chauvinism” and the overwhelming presence of Han Chinese in all upper echelon positions of power throughout the country.

    Mao’s campaign against “Han chauvinism” was not a material success. Ethnic minority groups seeking independence or cultural autonomy were deemed counter-revolutionary and collectively punished. The superiority of the Han was obscured by class struggle. Bigoted language and straightforward expressions of racial superiority were replaced with condescending views on revolution.

    https://saisobserver.org/2014/04/07/han-chauvinismexceptionalism-the-problem-with-han-chauvinism/

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  292. Rdm says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Hey I thought Asians are the most patriarchal society according to what Asian women said.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  293. @Yan Shen

    Please. Get to meet John Derbyshire and stop thinking of him as a right wing fanatic. He is an amusing individualist’s individualist. Cp. his forcefully expressed sometimes eccentric views to old lefty Christopher Hitchens lining up to cheer the invasion of Iraq.

    Here’s my favourite example of why you should enjoy JD…. On the old Human Biodiversity website site years ago someone posted a snippet from the BBC about humans sharing 70 per cent of their genes with pumpkins. Within 5 minutes of that being posted he came back with a limerick worthy of Robert Conquest, to wit:

    A certain young hillbilly bumpkin
    Was caught having sex with a pumpkin
    When arrested he swore
    What’s all the fuss for
    Where I’m from it’s OK to hump kin.

  294. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Some good news from Japan. Nationalism is good. But they should go easy on denying WWII war crimes. Nanking was real.

  295. Yan Shen says:
    @James Forrestal

    Well you obviously haven’t read much of my commentary and have no idea who I am, since as someone who’s been one of the staunchest advocates of HBD and race realism for at least the last 10 years, I’m shocked that you would accuse me of endorsing either the Blank Slate or Magic Dirt. To the contrary, I would argue that white nationalist types are better characterized as being proponents of Magic Dirt theory, since as I pointed out in my article they oftentimes invoke the same memes to explain East Asian academic success that blacks and Hispanics invoke to explain relative white American academic success.

    On the other hand, I can kinda sorta subscribe to the notion of the Proposition Nation. At a minimum, since non-Hispanic whites are only 61-62% of the overall population today, white nationalism narrowly construed really is one of those hopelessly pollyannish notions that has no real validity or chance at ever coming to fruition.

    By the way, it’s also highly flawed to accuse me of Han racial supremacism. In fact my last article here argued for something very different, that based on HBD, I expected Western and Eastern societies to increasingly specialize in different areas.

    http://www.unz.com/article/iq-or-the-mathverbal-split/

    Regardless of whether or not HBD is valid, I do think there’s a lot to be said for adopting the right cultural values and attitudes and basically working to maximize the most of what you’re born with. You really can’t ask for more than for each person to give their absolute best effort.

    This also has the additional plus that just in case the strong hereditarian position isn’t quite as correct as we might assume it to be, you’ve put in the required work as well to get more output than what you might’ve expected under a strong HBD assumption.

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  296. @Rdm

    I don’t know what that has to do with anything I said, so here is a link to an animal-powered dynamo.

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050161289

  297. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Yan Shen

    Not sure you’ve answered my question…

  298. TT says:
    @Punju

    Tibetan script/writing system is so similar to North Indian languages. Should it not be like some Chinese language? Just trying to understand and not questioning the fact that Tibet is part of China and will stay that way.

    From my understanding, ancient Northern part of current India(including Pakistan) is probably the oldest ancient civilization, much older than China, spreading far to further North(Afghanistan, Tibet, Nepal) & East(Bangladesh, China). Even some ancient China scriptures are written in old India “Sanskrit/Pali” writing.

    China inherited much from India civilization. In Hans dynasty India is known as XiYu(West Region) with vast records on astrology, science, spiritual, cultural, etc. Mahayana Buddhism was adopted by the Emperor & wide spread throughout Jp, Korea & SEAsia till present.

    Many traders or missionaries came from north India to China to spread their civilization, some settled down and help translated to Chinese language. These are still in China record.

    Tibet being closer to North India, received its Tibetan Buddhism from India too, albeit the wrong Tantra version instead of original Theravada Buddhism(still prominent in Sri Lanka, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, some part of Bangladesh). So its not surprise the writing is similar to northern India. Tibetan is a mixture of Tantra Buddhism & Tibet culture.

    Chinese has little influence over Tibet, which is a good sign that keep Tibet culture unchange.

    Even Nepal language is very closed to India, i was surprise my Indian friend was able to understand what Nepalese were talking during our Nepal trip. Sri Lanka Sanskrit & Buddhism is also greatly influence by India, esp during Great Asoka King period.

    Still that doesn’t justify India ambitious expansion policy & endless invasion to all its border countries since independent. Not a single neighbour is spared from India invasion.

    You are right that Tibet benefits economically by staying close to China. But then Others could argue that Taiwan, HongKong should have stayed close to the west for economic reasons but that was considered imperialistic attitude.

    They are absolutely different to be compared in any way.

    What i only wanted to point out is Tibet & Xinjiang aren’t under any kind of China tyranny suppression or massacre that the West out to demonize China. They are actually enjoying so much minority privilege & economy subsidy as autonomous regions. Even Philippine Prez was joking about asking China to incorporate them in as one province.

    Whereas HK was forcefully taken away by invading British under unequal term during opium war. Taiwan is a civil war historical burden. You are confusing yourself too much.

    Btw, it will be foolish to still thinking staying close to declining bankrupt West will lead to better prosperity than the already risen China, the economy body slated to be larger than US & EU combined within few decades.

  299. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    What you and the (predominantly Jewish) elite media establishment consider to be chaotic, disruptive “fake news”, most (predominantly white European) Americans define as creative, dynamic “free speech”. They see it as a strength NOT a weakness.

    The utilitarian defense of and justification for free speech is as follows:

    Case 1: The minority view turns out to be true (e.g. Galileo’s statement that the earth revolves around the sun) and the majority view (the earth-centered universe) is false. In this case, it should be obvious that allowing the minority view to be expressed is beneficial to the whole of our society.

    Case 2: The minority view is partially true and partially false. For example, suppose one were to argue that evolution never occurred. Even though this claim defies both a lot of evidence which supports various theories of evolution and it also brings the theory of natural selection under perhaps unjustifiable scrutiny, it nevertheless forces defenders of of various theories of evolution to reexamine both their methods (e.g. carbon dating) and their theoretical commitments (e.g. micro vs. macro evolution). Since the vast majority of social issues, and many accepted scientific theories (e.g. “Big Bang” theory) have at least a ‘touch of gray’, hearing a variety of views forces those who defend them to sharpen and enliven their arguments.

    Case 3: The minority view is false and the received view is true. For example, suppose a scholar were to write a book defending the thesis that slavery never happened in the United States. Why should we even tolerate such an outlandish view?

    1. Even though the scholar’s claims are false, again this forces us to revisit and perhaps rediscover much of the evidence we have documenting the history of slavery. This in turn informs both the way we do history, the way we accept truth claims, and the way we view the present.

    2. The falseness of the scholar’s claims actually strengthens many of our commonly received views about not just the fact of slavery, but it’s legacy also.

    https://theantiochvoice.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-utilitarian-defense-of-free-speech-on-college-campuses/

    As John Kerry stated:

    Americans Have The Right To Be Stupid – John Kerry U.S. Secretary of State

    On Einstein, I recommend to check out the following research:

    Albert Einstein, Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud Exposed!

    Source: https://www.unz.com/jthompson/pavlov-nowhere/#comment-1741720

    On height:

    I just wanted to add one little caveat. During a mass Australian IQ test back in 2002, the results actually showed, that the people in the 180cm-200cm height range had the highest average scores, whereas the more than 201cm tall group only came in third place.
    [...]
    What this could indicate, is that beyond a certain height/weight it might be harder for the cardio-vascular system to keep up with properly supplying the brain, etc. with oxygen, nutrients, etc.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-flynn-effect-for-height/#comment-1855060

    Han Chauvinism/Exceptionalism : What It Means

    The glory of the ancient Chinese empire has long encouraged the Chinese people to see themselves as above all other races. The “civilized/barbarian” distinction (“蛮夷之辩”) of ancient China is a perfect example of this attitude of racial superiority. It was China’s encounter with the Western civilization during the 19th and 20th centuries that forced Chinese people to change such conceptions of themselves. They came to realize their self-pride could not hide the backwardness of Chinese society in the face of the advanced Western technologies.
    [...]
    According to this interpretation, Han is an exceptional ethnical group which cannot find an equal counterpart in this globalized world.

    https://saisobserver.org/2014/04/07/han-chauvinismexceptionalism-what-it-means/

    I think China, the Chinese and the world in general would benefit if the Chinese state were to emphasize its Taoist roots more than its Confucian traditions.

    Taoism differs from Confucianism by not emphasizing rigid rituals and social order.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

    I also wanted to add, that I admire traditional Chinese culture. I have been studying Feng Shui for over 15+ years now.

    What we see today as Sinic/Chinese culture/civilization is really the Chinese Communist Party civilization/culture and not traditional Chinese civilization/culture, in my opinion. However, most Chinese coming over here to the U.S. have the Chinese Communist Party/Social Darwinist/cram school mindset, instead of the Feng Shui mindset.

    Maybe, if Sinic Civilization was more based on Feng Shui principles again, like in Hong Kong and in Taiwan, it would be more compatible and have less of an adversarial relationship with Western Civilization? I think/believe so.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1810979

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Ju Ahn
  300. Anon[997] • Disclaimer says:
    @Tyrion 2

    Goodness, I hope you’re not China’s best and brightest. Your reasoning is not great.

    Oh my god. I’m equally stupid. My mistake in my calculations is out as much as yours. Ha.

    Of course i can never be China best, otherwise I won’t be talking to a idiot like you but busy doing my research or administrating the country.

    Indeed you have revealed your pigheaded & snobbish character repeatedly. Why not try reading/accepting others’ comments from beginning humbly, than to stubbornly stick to your flawed argument.

    How can you be equally stupid when all you have ranted are moronic argument & calculation.

    You suggested by your own bragged direct China experience that only top 10% of Chinese can afford $80k pa study expenses. I believe its higher considering highly uneven wealth distribution in urban vs rural, still better than US 1% controlling most wealth.

    Now been pointed out, 10% 1.4B=140M. Even 1% sending under performing kid is 1.4M. Isn’t that big enough to stop your further bragging?

    Yet again you exhibit such obstinate behavior in sticking to your idiotic assertion of “Only Best Chinese can study in US” , with repeated silly argument of China is no better than Botswana or Dominican republic. What a fool you have make yourself here.

    Furthermore, there is zero reason to suspect that these are selected from the least able of their pool. Such a huge investment in your child’s education is unlikely to be made on entirely barren soil.

    I’d wager that in any society almost all of the top 10% earner’s children score above average on IQ tests.

    Even the English students who go to the US are brighter than average.

    Again you make a joke of yourself.

    Can you understand what is Best and above average IQ with your good English?

    You are trying to muddle your argument now to wiggle out in such pathetic way like a typical jews. Sorry, i am never antisemitic, but your behavior call for it.

    In your logic, if above average Chinese is joining the best uni in US & UK, West is doomed. Because then we are talking about best West uni elites are equivalent to the 700M above average Chinese back in China.

    So it comes back to what everyone is telling you from beginning;

    1. Wealthy chinese is plenty in hundreds of millions. That is half of US or twice UK!

    2. Only the 2nd best after unable to enter China good uni, descend to US soil with some rich spoil brats that don’t graduate eventually, like Asia richest man Li KaSeng’s son & Bo Xilai’s son in Harvard.

    3. Post graduate are possibly true elites been sent selectively for specific field study. They will mostly return for a more rewarding career back home.

    Conclusion: US isn’t getting the Best Chinese. otherwise we are already drinking coffee in the moon with combined best talents & unlimited access of technology in US.

    If you are indeed the brightest jews of US/UK, we are doomed & hopeless. Which is why the West is declining into such a cesspool filled with clowns & shameless liars in WH/ UK parliament, ruled by the jews, bleeding trillions & dying for Israel’s Kingdom.

    • Troll: Tyrion 2, Ju Ahn
    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
  301. @Tyrion 2

    I don’t disagree. My point is that the barriers aren’t legal. Like many, many things in East Asia, the barriers are typically cultural and informal.

  302. AaronB says:
    @Yan Shen

    Excellent and very true comment altogether, Yan.

    I completely agree with you regarding Confucius paternalism towards blacks. Imagine if Derbyshire said exactly the same thing, that blacks are a problematic and violent community, etc, etc, but added that we should help them to learn better behaviors and develop better values. Imagine the alt-right adopted this attitude, which would even be consistent with calls for segregation and the rest of it.

    Sure, there would be a massive outcry about white paternalism, but it would nevertheless undeniably raise the moral stature of the alt-right despite all the efforts of the MSM, and I bet it would even win over some blacks.

    The sheer hostility of the al-right towards all non-whites and the complete lack of any moral veneer is even incredibly stupid simply as strategy….

    But the alt-right is stupid, and have learned nothing from the successess of Jews.

    Of course, as Daniel Chieh says, whites used to be paternalistic, but the complete loss of cultural self-confidence has perhaps made this attitude impossible for whites – on another thread, I was dumbfounded to see alt-righters bickering with blacks over who is “superior” – so this is what it’s come to for alt-righters! That’s how low their confidence is!

    Related to what has been said so far, it also comes down to the strange “one-dimensional” character of recent white culture – they lack what I can only call the ability for “metacognition” – they see blacks as a problematic community, so they condemn. Simple and linear. They can’t take a step back, look at the larger picture, and see how even as strategy it may make sense to make allies of the black community, as Jews did. Related to what has been said so far, they do not understand the “moral dimension” of conflict or of life.

  303. AaronB says:
    @FKA Max

    Excellent point that Chinese culture needs a correction towards it’s Taoist side and that right now it’s too heavily tilted towards it’s Confucian and Legalist side. Historically that always happens sooner or later, and we’re going to start seeing that in this century I believe….

  304. Ju Ahn says:
    @FKA Max

    I’m saying you’re adopting fake news because you’re disseminating false information of deriving IQ from number of years of education completed which is completely laughable. You’re not addressing any of the points I’ve made to debunk your flawed and disingenuous argument regarding IQ and just diverting the discussion into another matter which most dishonest people do.

    Notice the main point of my argument was regarding racial IQs which you pointed to several ridiculous data to make false points about, not some fake news controversy over facebook or other related matters regarding politics.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  305. Ju Ahn says:
    @Anon

    Your point is already debunked as I’ve pointed out that there are many Chinese students who were Chinese International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) team members studying or have studied in U.S. universities as undergraduate students.

    These people are truly the best and brightest of the China as they’re top 6 people handpicked yearly from their high school population to represent their country in student Olympics of Mathematics.

    In addition, 100 million in China is less than 10% of Chinese population. That point doesn’t disprove that majority of Chinese people still aren’t rich. No one is arguing Chinese people aren’t numerous and there are many intelligent and wealthy people among them just due to their sheer numbers. Chinese commentators often engage in this type of confused or dishonest behavior trying to conflate large numbers with averages.

    Same thing happened many years ago when the PISA score of Shanghai first came out. Chinese commentators tried to use those data to somehow prove Han superiority. However, it is obvious that using data points from the metropolitan area as a representative sample of the entire nation is ridiculous. Few years after, the results from the rest of the China came out, and China did not outperform its East Asian neighbors such as South Korea and Japan much to the dismay of Han chauvinists.

    • Replies: @Anon
  306. AaronB says:

    Regardless of whether or not HBD is valid, I do think there’s a lot to be said for adopting the right cultural values and attitudes and basically working to maximize the most of what you’re born with. You really can’t ask for more than for each person to give their absolute best effort.

    This also has the additional plus that just in case the strong hereditarian position isn’t quite as correct as we might assume it to be, you’ve put in the required work as well to get more output than what you might’ve expected under a strong HBD assumption

    This has got to be the sanest , healthiest, and most moral approach towards cultural revitalization I have read on this site. The role of effort – or if you will, character – has got to be reemphasized. The obsessive focus on genes has got to go be moderated with an appreciation for personal agency.

    White people should also focus on rebuilding social capital within their communities, as motivation simply cannot be generated in a vacuum.

    I’m personally skeptical that the IQ difference between whites and Asians reflects anything more substantial than the role of effort and character, and the same goes for the supposed Asian skew towards technology – but who knows? I may well be wrong.

  307. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Typo: He is a *Haitian* living in France engaged to a Jewish woman.

    As you noticed it, my interest in the posts about blacks and especially West African blacks is linked to my ethnic background. I’m an Haïtian Black adopted by White Gallo-Roman Catholic parents which in France stands for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant in the USA. It means more than white, it means the native ancestral dominant elite stock, “la crème de la crème” in other words. If you want to make an analogy with the US, I don’t react here as a black person but rather as typical liberal New Englander.
    [...]
    I was born in the worst slum of Port-au-Prince and now I’m just starting a professional career at 23, I’m starting as a lawyer by September. I don’t do it for money but for self-fulfillment, I don’t need to earn money because I’m already wealthy, not by birth but by adoption and it feels totally different as I know how short I fell of living a life of slum dweller. Now I have a master’s degree and I grew up in an environment that engineered me for excellence.

    https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/new-author-afrosapiens/

    Why Is Barbados So Civilized?
    [...]
    I think an important distinction has to [b]e made between Catholic/French/Belgian, etc. and Protestant/British/Dutch, etc. colonies here, when it comes to the promotion or prohibition of birth control, etc. and what kind of effect this has had on the difference in observed levels of civility and violence these nations exhibit even today. In my experience, even majority-African populations can be relatively civilized and prosperous if they have the combination and follow the formula of a lower fertility rate and a higher median age population. This demographic combination has a civilizing and pacifying effect on any culture and people, no matter the genetic, racial predisposition towards aggression, impulsivity, etc. due to a higher prevalence of “warrior gene”
    [...]
    Compare Protestant/British Barbados’ fertility rate history (currently it has a fertility rate of ~1.84)
    [...]
    to Catholic/French Haiti’s fertility rate history (currently it has a fertility rate of ~2.8)

    http://www.unz.com/article/thoughts-on-decolonization-as-an-anti-white-discourse/#comment-2076646

    The same applies to China, without the 1 Child policy implemented China would not be at the stage of economic, etc. development it is today:

    The population policy of only 1 child for each couple was proposed for the longterm benefit of China and its people and because of the urgent demand of the 4 modernizations. The indication of the achievement of the 4 modernizations by the end of the 20th century is a per capita income of 1000 United States dollars. To reach the $1000 figure, the per capita income needs to be increased 3-fold. This is a difficult task, and to realize it effort must be placed on both material production and population control.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12311034

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/those-who-never-noticed-the-past-are-condemned-to-repeat-it/#comment-2207049

    When the president of Beijing University warned about the danger of rapid population growth, he was denounced and relieved of his responsibilities. Overpopulation could only be a problem in evil capitalist societies — never in a socialist paradise. China was already overpopulated in 1949, and it grew with spooky speed. Mao refused to believe the census numbers. In 1958, family planning programs were ended, and not resumed until 1971. Mao died in 1976, and in 1979, the one-child policy was implemented.

    Source: http://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered/#comment-2045728

    • Replies: @AaronB
  308. Ju Ahn says:
    @Tyrion 2

    The points is that many WNs or some other conservative white people are making false arguments about unfair treatments they would face in East Asia if they were to migrate there. However, much of the observed discrepancies arise from white people’s unwillingness to move to East Asia as opposed to the mythical racist policies adopted in East Asian nations. This in conjunction with white people’s unwillingness to adopt Asian language and culture are larger reason that white people do not assimilate as well in East Asian countries rather than any flagrant racism exhibited by native East Asian populations.

    So, WNs are really using white people’s unwillingness to move to East Asia as defense to justify some of the discriminatory policies that exist or might exist in the west. However, most East Asian people are here (in the West) legally as white people in the East do. And East Asian people often adopt European languages (English), culture, and religion (many are even Christians). WNs also sometimes give objection to East Asian people speaking our own language and cooking our own food at home. But I observe plenty of French or Quebec Canadian people speaking French in public, or Eastern Europeans speaking Russian or other languages. As for our foods, Europeans raided SE Asia centuries ago for their spices and adopted elements of Eastern cuisine quite willingly and through many troubles undertaken voluntarily. They also threatened East Asian ports with their modern weapons to force trades and adopted Chinese tea and other culinary practices. British people also willingly opened Indian restaurants in their own country.

    I agree with you that that are more Asian people in the west than Europeans on the west. However, I’m going to tell you that Europeans meddle on the affairs of East Asian countries much more despite their lower numbers. All the time Europeans human and animal rights organizations try to influence East Asian policies despite not being there. Amnesty tells East Asian countries to abolish death penalties, and animal rights groups tell us to not eat dogs or cats. Some Europeans also complain about large influx of Muslims and how they influence policies. However, Europeans affect middle eastern politics much more through involvement in Israel and War in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria yet again. In addition, European nations threaten countries like North Korea and Iran about nuclear disarmament. I’m not saying I disagree with these policies, but Europeans are impacting Asian nations much more than they claim to be doing.

    In summary, I find that such arguments put forth by WNs to be very duplicitous and lacking in depth. They just compare the number of population in each side and hastily draw conclusion that Asian are trying to change their ways of life; However, Europeans have already wreaked havoc in other cultures in the past and is continuing to do so today.

  309. AaronB says:
    @FKA Max

    Great thinking out-of-the-box posts on this thread.

    That that Afrosapiens guy can be so articulate and intelligent by growing up in the right environment, yet being born in a black slum….

    Surely it’s impossible…genes are genes, twin studies after all…

  310. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    I’m saying you’re adopting fake news because you’re disseminating false information of deriving IQ from number of years of education completed which is completely laughable.

    For the second time… this is not laughable. This is what Mr. Shen’s article is all about “Hey, hey, hey, hey. This is library.” Why do you think the guy is studying in the library, because it is laughable and doesn’t give one a competitive advantage on IQ, etc. tests, in intelligence competitions, and in life in general!?

    What is it? Is education virtuous or laughable?

    The reason East Asians do so well on IQ tests and in intelligence competitions, etc., is the same reason they have high rates of myopia, they spend a lot of time indoors studying from a young age on:

    East Asia has been gripped by an unprecedented rise in myopia, also known as short-sightedness. Sixty years ago, 10–20% of the Chinese population was short-sighted. Today, up to 90% of teenagers and young adults are. In Seoul, a whopping 96.5% of 19-year-old men are short-sighted.g age on:
    [...]
    “To put it crudely, myopia is not the ophthalmic sign of intelligence, rather it marks the striver”, says Alireza Mirshahi.

    http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2095195

    You’re not addressing any of the points I’ve made to debunk your flawed and disingenuous argument regarding IQ

    I have supported my argument well, I believe, and cited several sources http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294222 backing it up, which you, arrogantly, dismissed:

    But trying to figure someone’s intelligence by number of years of education completed is utter joke. The source you quoted is a joke.

    http://www.unz.com/article/americas-cultural-revolution-the-obsession-with-self-esteem/#comment-2294265

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
    , @FKA Max
  311. Ju Ahn says:
    @FKA Max

    You refuse to address the issue at hand man. You claimed average Chinese people have IQ of 79 which is barely any better than Africans. You also stated Lynn fabricated his data to inflate East Asian scores in order to not appear as a white supremacist. However, you failed to substantiate these outlandish statements with any reasonable evidence.

    Anyway, I can see you’re a troll that cannot be reasoned with. You can believe average Chinese IQ = average African IQ despite what all the test scores are pointing to such as PISA, TIMSS, PIRLS and other IQ studies that have been conducted for respective populations.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @FKA Max
  312. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    Correction: The *g age on* does not belong in this sentence In Seoul, a whopping 96.5% of 19-year-old men are short-sighted. Something went wrong with the pasting.

    Here another question for Mr. Ahn:

    Why do you think women choose well-educated sperm donors? Because it is funny and a joke to them?

    Of course not, they choose well-educated men because they believe it increases the chances of their child to be more intelligent, which gives it a competitive advantage they hope, because they see educational attainment as a proxy for higher intelligence. Are all intelligent persons highly educated, not necessarily, but on average they are these days:

    Young and well educated men in demand as sperm donors in global life market

    “Many women have more freedom than ever before when it comes to choosing who fathers their offspring and what we have found is that younger and more highly educated sperm donors are snapped up much faster.” – https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160707100810.htm

    Also, as reported by Mr. Sailer; in Brazil women prefer white, blue eyed sperm donors, again, I believe because they select for intelligence:

    Denmark has long been the leading exporter of sperm for fertility clinics.

    Source: https://www.unz.com/isteve/brazilian-fertility-clinics-look-to-american-white-guys/

    Also, the blue-eyed phenotype is now abundant in Northern Europe and hence should have some kind of adaptive advantage, most likely one favored by sexual selection [43], [45], that compensates for the loss of perceived trustworthiness.

    Going by my formula, I believe the advantage offsetting the loss of perceived trustworthiness is intelligence/creativity/curiosity, plus a few other advantageous traits
    [...]
    Northern Europeans have the highest frequency of blue/light eyes and of the COMT Met allele in their populations which translates into higher levels of frontal lobe dopamine, which is a proxy for increased cerebral blood flow during rest, which in turn is a proxy for intelligence and creativity (see above study). If East Asians were not such hard-working students http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2095195 and were not performing so well on standardized IQ tests due to their studying habits th[e]n the global correlation between IQ and population COMT Met allele frequencies would be even higher, in my opinion

    http://www.unz.com/freed/fun-with-iq-deep-thought/#comment-2098254

  313. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    Afrosapiens estimates average Chinese IQ to be 84 not 79, and he puts African mean IQ at 72, which puts the average Chinese person 12 IQ points above the average African.


    To test the predictive power of my estimates in comparison to Lynn’s, I decided to focus only on the world’s 20 most populous countries. The reason for that is that these countries are home to 70% of the world’s population and the law of large numbers says that they are likely more representative of whatever they could represent. On the other hand, the 100+ other countries are home to only 30% of humanity. They are a source of statistical noise due to extreme outlying values and differences in regional political fragmentation that would hide or weaken general trends better evidenced by considering large countries.

    Source: https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
  314. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    You also stated Lynn fabricated his data to inflate East Asian scores in order to not appear as a white supremacist. However, you failed to substantiate these outlandish statements with any reasonable evidence.

    I never personally stated that, I just quoted Afrosapiens. Even so, it seems a reasonable assumption to make, in my opinion, considering the (current) politically correct environment in the West. But you are correct he never specifically backs up this claim in the article.

    Here is the quote. It is in the fourth(4th) paragraph from the bottom:

    The manipulation is quite apparent, Lynn largely over-estimated China (+22), Japan (+7) to make East-Asians cluster on top, thus protecting himself from accusations of nordicism and giving support to the inter-cultural validity of the IQs that he cherry-picked. The western European and Russian data remained mostly unchanged. Vietnam (+11) and Thailand (+5) were given a bonus for their genetic proximity to North-East Asia that is supposed to make them score in the low 90s despite their lack of development. Little changes were brought to the scores of the Latin American, Middle-Eastern and Austronesian countries usually scoring in the mid-80s. Major fraud (+14 in Pakistan, +7 in Bangladesh) was done to lift up South-Asian countries out of the 70s range and excluding Sub-Saharan Africa as the only region scoring 70 or below and downgrading Nigeria (-4) and the DR. Congo (-7) in the process.

    https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2017/09/05/worldwide-iq-estimates-based-on-education-data/

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
  315. Ju Ahn says:
    @FKA Max

    I’ve already stated why # quoted by Afroscience is hoax.

    There are number of other factors affecting human intelligence than just education.

    1. Brain Size (East Asians have larger average brain size than Europeans)

    Row 2 gives results from the largest collection of skulls ever collected, numbering approximately 20,000, and shows that the East Asians had a larger brain size than the Europeans by l.2d (standard deviation units). Row 3 gives a difference of 20cc from a study of American 7-year-old children carried out by Broman, Nichols, Shaughnessy, and Kennedy (1987). … Thus, all the studies except Morton’s, revised by Gould shown in row 1, have found that the East Asians have larger average brain size than Europeans.

    2. Reaction Time (East Asians have faster average reaction time than Europeans)

    Reaction times consist of the speed of reaction to a simple stimulus such as the onset of a light. Many studies have shown that reaction times are positively related to intelligence at a magnitude of around 0.2 to 0.3 (see Jensen, 1998, and Deary, 2000) and it has been argued by Jensen (1998) that reaction times are a measure of the neurological efficiency of the brain in processing information. We saw in Chapter 4 that Africans have slower reaction times than Europeans consistent with their lower IQ. We consider now whether East Asians have faster reaction times than Europeans consistent with their higher IQs. … The results of all three studies show that the magnitude of the advantage of East Asian children in reaction times representing the neurological efficiency of the brain in simple information processing is about two thirds of their advantage in intelligence. These studies also reported differences in reaction time variability and in movement times and these were of approximately the same magnitude as those of the reaction times. Jensen (1998) provides a more detailed description and discussion of these studies. Geary et al. (1997) have also reported faster reaction times and higher IQs in Chinese as compared with American children, but they do not give standard deviations so the difference cannot be expressed as a d.

    In addition, many actual IQ tests (not your let’s just take number of education completed = IQ theory) quoted in Lynn’s book and elsewhere confirm that East Asians have higher average IQ than Europeans.

    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/lynn-race-differences-in-intelligence.pdf

    However, you can disregard all this and keep putting faith in your broscience or I would say white nationalist science rather than actual science if you prefer to keep it that way.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  316. Yan Shen says:
    @FKA Max

    Anyone who claims that average Chinese IQ is 1 point below that of average African American IQ really has no credibility in my opinion.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  317. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Ju Ahn

    If you are interested in reading a proper white nationalist take on the topic I recommend the following one:

    The Myth of East Asian Intellectual Supremacy by Peter J. White

    It is sufficient to note that brain size, at best, is only weakly correlated with IQ. What seems to be more important is the degree of neural connectiveness. Otherwise blue whales would be of a super-intelligence level. Further it has been argued that the degree of fissuring and thickness in the frontal cortical brain layers is more important than the sheer size of the human brain. The Negroid brain is generally less fissured than the White and Mongoloid brain. See C.F. Connolly, “External Morphology of the Primate Brain”, (Thomas, Springfield, 1950); F.W. Vint, “The Brain of the Kenya Native”, Journal of Anatomy, vol.66, 1934; H.G. Garrett, “IQ and Race Differences”, (Howard Allen, Cape Canaveral, 1973), p.14.

    Sociobiologists have noted that during the last 20,000 years the upward trend in brain size has been reversed. Modern man has a smaller brain than the Cro-Magnons, by about 100-200 cubic cms. It is usually inferred that the Cro-Magnons were more intelligent than modern man: J.W. Jamieson, “Biological Diversity and Ethnic Identity: Changing Patterns in the Modern World”, The Mankind Quarterly, vol.36, 1995, pp.193-199; B. Chiarelli, “Some comments on the Evolution of Hominid Intelligence” The Mankind Quarterly, vol.37, 1996, pp.29-36. Yet could it be that with modern man evolution departed from pursuing quantity and pursued quality? Perhaps evolution pursued the path of neural efficiency rather than sheer brain size? We will never know the answer to that question because we do not have a Cro-Magnon brain to subject to neurological investigation.

    https://thecross-roads.org/race-culture-nation/25-the-myth-of-east-asian-intellectual-supremacy

    I commented on this here:

    “Brain size has increased about 350% over human evolution, but we found that blood flow to the brain increased an amazing 600%,” project leader Roger Seymour, from the University of Adelaide, said in a statement. “We believe this is possibly related to the brain’s need to satisfy increasingly energetic connections between nerve cells that allowed the evolution of complex thinking and learning.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/boost-your-iq/#comment-2085737

    I don’t think reaction time is a good proxy for intelligence. In fact taller people often have slower reaction times due nerve impulses having to travel a greater distance than in shorter people. Mice for example have faster reaction times than elephants. Are mice smarter than elephants? A better proxy for intelligence, in my opinion, is hand-eye coordination:

    In a paper documenting the 20th century decline in reaction speed, scholar Irwin W. Silverman considers the confounding role of height. Height has increased by 1.5 standard deviations over the last 150 years, and this may be producing spuriously slow reaction times because nerve impulses have further to travel in a taller body. However Silverman seems to dismiss this possibility, citing research showing taller people have faster reaction times.

    However within generations, taller people tend to be genetically smarter than shorter people. This is thought to be because both height and intelligence (or at least its correlates: money, status) are socially valued, so people who have an above average amount of both, or either, tend to reproduce with one another, causing the genes for both to become associated. In addition, some of the same genes that influence height, may also influence intelligence. A related point is that short stature and low intelligence may both reflect genetic mutation load, or inbreeding depression.

    So the fact that the nerve impulse has further to travel in tall people may be completely negated by the fact that tall people have genetically faster brains. In other words, tall people may be so mentally quick, that they still perform well on reaction time tasks despite the test being physically biased against them.

    https://brainsize.wordpress.com/2014/06/25/height-reaction-time-victorian-intelligence/

    Effect of height on motor coordination in college students participating in a dancesport program.
    Li X et al. (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25743602
    [...]
    The height of students participating in sport dancing training had an impact on dancesport performance and motor coordination, counter to the traditional belief that shorter people have better coordination.
    [...]
    Motor Coordination Correlates with Academic Achievement and Cognitive Function in Children
    Valter R. Fernandes et al. (2016) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4792186/

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/womens-brains/#comment-1857667

  318. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Yan Shen

    Why?

    I find it equally un- and incredible to claim that the Chinese in the following video have an average IQ of 106!?

    Rural Chinese Farmers

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    , @Anon
  319. Yan Shen says:
    @FKA Max

    What does that even mean?

    Assuming a normal distribution with mean 106 and SD of 15 we’d expect about 16% of Chinese to have IQs below 91 and 7% to have IQs below 84. 7% of 1380 million comes out to almost 97 million.

    16% of whites have IQs lower than that of the average African American. Please learn how to think distributionally…

    You are crazy if you believe that average IQ of Chinese is 1 point lower than that of average African American IQ. The gap in academic and real life performance is so enormous that the null hypothesis of equal intelligence between those two groups is probably infinitesimally small.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @FKA Max
    , @FKA Max
  320. Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yan Shen

    FKA is not crazy, he is just WN wanker trying to get some self consolation after seeing how entire West is declining with self destructive policy while the Asia is ascending so fast.

    Every test be it IQ, SAT, Maths Olympiad…all revealed EVERY East Asian or Chinese majority country like Singapore has the highest score not out of coincident. These test are all formulated by the West that highly skewed towards their advantage.

    Lot of hard work yes, but the cow are working even harder.

    There are sure some whites working as hard & smart, but how many make it to the Maths Olympiad top10. Even US & UK are sending Asians (esp East Asians) as team leaders & representative to win, that’s glaring tell signs.

    You are wasting time arguing with some idiots who equate Chinese IQ with African, just like Tyrion 2 is trying to equate China economic wealth with Botswana or even below Iraqi & Dominican republic. They simply refuse to accept the reality that yellow skin Asian is suddenly equal if not better than their pale skin supremacy glory they have long enjoyed but losing quickly now.

    Pls understand their despair feeling & be compassionate.

  321. Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    I can say Yes, we are gradually understanding why so many are antisemitic after getting more contact with jews. I have few dealing with jews, they do gave me headache each time.

    Recently there was a ex-soviet guy kept pushing for everything unreasonably while behave so unusual miser, yet pretending to be wealthy & generous.

    He act like one who when seeing a beggar, he will think so hard how he can rip from him. If he gave me a spoonful of food(very strange isn’t it) over meal, he will ask for free service worth a tonne persistently.

    So curiously I asked if he is a jews, he sheepishly said somehow yes as his grandma was.

    Similarly for typical Indians, they seldom honoured their words, always twist & turn to make dealing with them so exhaustive. While the chinese too have their own distinct characteristics like loud speaking, so are all other races each having own special traits.

    We just have to learn to be more patient living in this globalization world. Is not that what make life interesting?

  322. The Negro says:

    The attitude of this Yan Shen fellow stinks! He mocks those who care about social justice in America as “Social justice jihadis!” He did so perhaps thinking the UNZ Review is restricted only to the Fox News Neocons, and disgruntled whites angry about losing their $30/p.h jobs that were relocated to China, but are ironically taking their anger at their poor blacks and Hispanic neighbours, who earn minimum wage at fast food restaurants and blueberry fields.

    It is not true that China, all of a sudden, became rich and prosperous because its people are smart and industrious, for it remained poor and backward for centuries, despite having people with those attributes. But it was enriched at the expense of the U.S., and this wasn’t accident but deliberate. For over 20 years, America was forced to follow a disastrous policy that treated China as “The most favoured nation”, whereby most of American industry was relocated and outsourced to china, and what is left in the country was destroyed because it could not compete with cheap product made with cheap labour, and without any environmental regulations. And while China admirably took advantage of the enormous opportunities that were sent her way and built its economy, America was hijacked and plunged into one disastrous war after another: Afghanistan, Iraq, LIBYA, Yemen, Somalia, Syria and so on. But what is rotten in America is not just the disastrous wars in foreign lands, but the fundamentals of the nation’s infrastructure, politics, economy and justice system are all in shambles. Nowhere that is apparent than the broken justice system, where the rule of law and the due process are long abandoned. For instance, if you belong to certain communities, you could be sent to prison for 30 years on fabricated Secret Evidence that neither you nor your attorney are allowed to see. And this Yan Shen guy has the insolence to complain about not being allowed to attend ivy league school because he has good grades?!

    The worst thing about Trump presidency is that he left the swamp in Washington untouched, but only turned the American people against one another, while he is busy doing the bidding of his masters. The truth of the matter is that that which enriched China and bankrupted America was no normal process, and certainly wasn’t the nature of things. So, as soon as the criminals are pushed aside, and that abnormal process is reversed, America will stand on its feet once again.
    Having said all of that, still China’s ascendency will stall quickly because the Chinese have just eliminated the most innovative aspect of their political system: The peaceful transfer of power from one leader to anther in every 10 years. But now that Xi jinping is anointed as the king forever, his cronies will feel secure. As a result, nepotism and corruption will be rife. And like every other power in history, china will slip, and the gravity will pull her down. That is inventible. But even before that, China’s influence in the world affairs will be very limited by culture, because the Chinese are closed and are busy with one thing, and one thing alone: Accumulating things(wealth).

    However, the weakest link of China that would forever cripple not only her influence, but her potential as well is China’s indifference to the welfare of others. I am not saying this just to put down China, but I will substantiate my point by appealing to the facts on the ground. For instance, 700,000 Rohingya Muslims of Burma were slaughtered, raped, and burned alive at China’s doorsteps. China is the top dog in that area, and the most powerful country in the whole region. So, the question is: Did China save even one single Rohingya family? Nope! When you are that uncaring to the rest of the humanity, you are not going to get very far, no matter how many material things you accumulate. Thus, indifference to the welfare of others is China’s Achilles heel!

    • Replies: @TT
  323. Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ju Ahn

    Do you understand difference betw Troll & discussing of facts & views? Otherwise all your comments should be flagged as troll too.

    I can understand Tyrion marked my factual comment as troll out of agitation after been shame publicly. Daniel & Yan Seng are true blood Chinese, and regular contributors of meaningful comments. Yet Tyrion is trying to arguing foolishly, that’s the reason i make a unpleasant comment. But my apology to him, i could use more gentle way without touching on jews.

    Now i will response to your comment while i still have some free time.

    Chinese commentators often engage in this type of confused or dishonest behavior trying to conflate large numbers with averages.

    First, i am not related to China, so my comment is objective & more neutral. That answered your ad homein comment.

    In addition, 100 million in China is less than 10% of Chinese population. That point doesn’t disprove that majority of Chinese people still aren’t rich.

    That 10% is based on Tyrion bragging of his China experience that make him wildly believed he got better understanding than true Chinese. So are you?

    Where did anyone said all Chinese are rich, pls point out. What is been consistently highlighted is even top10% rich is 140M, a huge huge number of rich. No?

    Tell me how many Koreans is rich vs poverty when jobless rate is pretty high now. Even in Japan, i am seeing many homeless sleeping in train stations and scavenging rubbish bins for food, with old folks shoplifting as they are too ashamed to beg. A high % are working as low pay contract worker now. No? Try read up abit.

    Wealth distribution is very wide in this globalization world, the rich simply get richer. While i live so comfortably, my charity work with poors always humbled me that there are always bottom 20% living in such unbelievable poverty.

    Nearly all developed countries have bottom 20% live in poverty, many are homeless & regularly have not enough food. Try search abit starting from US, UK, Oz, Nz, Canada, EU, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, HK, …all have 20% poverty. And China is aiming at eradicating poverty entirely of its last 40M by 2020, how marvellous, 1.4B people free from extreme poverty.

    China wealth is very unevenly distributed due to break neck growth. The pay between urban & rural is very wide, I would believe up to 20% of urban Chinese is holding the majority wealth. That is 280M, nearly twice of Japan. That’s what we consistently emphasized, the Chinese rich can afford US study is simply plentiful.

    How about US? Combined rich of the top few equivalent to the bottom 50%, 1% is holding the majority wealth. So GDP(ppp) per capital can be deceiving.

    Your point is already debunked as I’ve pointed out that there are many Chinese students who were Chinese International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) team members studying or have studied in U.S. universities as undergraduate students.

    You should have adequate ability to understand different between BEST & Good /Above Average. Those joining IMO might be good in maths doesn’t equate that they are the Best overall. Just because that few IMO representatives are studying in US, it don’t implied hundreds of of thousands Chinese students studying in US are the Best. No? What have you to debunk?

    If you asked every true blood Chinese(not ABC), they will consistently tell you those undergrad study in China ivory uni are their best, but not the post grad. This is the Chinese way of life not up to you or me to determine.

    They compete fiercely to enter their best local uni which they prided as best, when unable, the wealthy one (100~300M) will go to US/UK. So majority in US is at best only 2nd grade, not 1st grade, while some are rich princelings.

    And 3rd grade went to Oz/Nz uni, some stay on while some proceed to US/UK ivory for postgrad.

    4th grade is dumped in Singapore or Japan under free scholarship. Yet these 4th grade proceed to achieve 1st class honor in NUS/NTU STEM courses (Top5 in world ranking).

    In Singapore, only Top20% of Cambridge GCE “A” graduate enter STEM course in NTU/NUS under gov quota system. Only Top 3~5% of ungrad cohort will be granted 1st class honor.

    You might want to know, Singapore Cambridge Uni GCE “A” Level for uni enrolment has to be segregated from UK GCE A paper, mark with much higher standard. Reason been if to grade altogether, all Spore students will get straight distinctions if to pass UK students within acceptable margin, or majority UK students will fail the exam. That’s how wide margin. Its no coincident Spore is scoring Top in IQ, SAT, IMO, etc. year after year.

    Yet 80% could not make it to 2 top local uni STEM. If affordable, some proceed to overseas study to get their distinction/medals, surprisingly. But the real cream will apply for prestige gov scholarship to study in ivory uni of US/UK for career reason.

    Those rejected by NUS medical course (annual 200 quota), will get Gold Medal or top distinction in West uni to be awarded scholarship/fellowship in ivory uni. In Malaysia, its even much more competitive for the Chinese ethnics to enrol in top local uni due to race discrimination.

    So its not surprising that even China 2nd grade is outperforming most in West uni, considering their 4th grade can excel even in highly competitive Spore education system, which has a proven academic achievement track record well surpass all OECD countries including SK.

    And these highly performing Spore Chinese diaspora are what Spore PM Lee Kuan Yew said to China Deng Xiao Peng : “We are the descendants of your poor peasants. You are the true elites. What we can achieve, China can sure do much better.”

    I am speaking from direct experience with these academic students, not based on speculation & pride like Tyrion or you.

    So what are you trying to debunk then with your own tinted view?

    Same thing happened many years ago when the PISA score of Shanghai first came out. Chinese commentators tried to use those data to somehow prove Han superiority. However, it is obvious that using data points from the metropolitan area as a representative sample of the entire nation is ridiculous. Few years after, the results from the rest of the China came out, and China did not outperform its East Asian neighbors such as South Korea and Japan much to the dismay of Han chauvinists.

    What make you think all other cities will not develop into another Shanghai or Beijing in due course as China progress into parity of Japan & SK?

    Shenzhen was transformed from a village to most vibrant SV within 20yrs, surpassing HK GDP from nothing. They simply has the unparalleled number & quality to duplicate tens/hundred of HK/Spore if given peaceful rise.

    Chinese is not dismayed as what you said been not outperforming SK or Japan in country wide test. They understood China is a huge country of 1.4B people with uneven distribution under dynamic growth & restructuring.

    If they will to compare using major cities that reach similar living standard of Japan & SK, they will remain very competitive if not well surpassing.

    I will share with you some history I learned from older humble South Koreans I worked with to satisfy your Korean chauvinism, since many young Koreans now believed they are smarter than Chinese & have largely arrived because US decided to prop up its lackey SK economic abit like Japan for countering China as well as for US ripping.

    SKorean even tried to distort history to say Chinese copied their culture, tradition costumes, writings, Traditional Chinese Medicine 中医 has now become 韩医. That pissed off Chinese that make them shunned Korean drama.

    If you are old enough, you should know Korean writing is make for illiterate farmer usage. The elites traditionally used old Chinese writing, with Confucianism as their highest elitism. Most older Korean elites still write Chinese well. They copied superior Tang(?) Dynasty Chinese old costumes & culture, civilization, architecture, everything wholesale with some errors or modification like Japanese.

    But during Japanese colonial era, Korean emperor wanted to use their own writing for nationalism, which is what we are seeing now, the improved version of farmer writing. No?

    Talk about civilization, talent & technical capability. I had worked in Samsung, the best SK coporate, and understand abit on LG & Hyundai in some dealings which are so much poorly managed than Samsung. I can clearly said, Korea capability & civilization nowhere near to Japanese 60%. You may disagree, but its reality.

    Hint: With complete free access to West technology & materials, well funded SK repeatedly failed to launch even a rocket (bought from Russia) successfully for satellite launching trial, while their heavily sanctioned NK kins already long completed launching their satellite with indigenous design & develop rockets, even with intercontinental ability now. Japan is also struggling with this rocket technology, but better thsn Korean.

    Why? NK is actually majority Hans ethnic after the devastating Korean war. This is what i heard, no offend.

    Some Chinese told (from their old Korean war vets) the war was fought so ferociously by brave Koreans against the excessively overpowering US allied, nearly all NK men were killed. When the survived Chinese soldiers removed the dead soldiers uniform(reused), many were women sent to fight after all men were decimated. Korean is a fighter race that even Hans find difficult to subjugate.

    After the war, Mao let most Chinese soldiers stay in NK to rebuild & repopulate. The NK is essentially Hans descendants now. So they are as good as Chinese. If given free access to technology & no sanction, they might able to even roll out 5th Gen Fighter Jets or aerospace program like Chinese, with prosperous economy. Under 50yrs heavy sanctions, they still manage to deliver a impressive GDP growth, & nation wide free stella healthcare & education.

    SK dreamed to do 5th Gen Fighter with Indonesia, but couldn’t even visualize a outline. Similarly, Japan has given up their Xinshen 5th Gen Jet project after knowing their capability limit. So what’s more to talk about aerospace technology in sending human into space.

    IQ or SAT is only a gauging tool for uni selection. The true talented race can only be revealed in their achievements, like Russian, Germans, Chinese, North Indians(Pak), Jews, and some Europeans. US is simply a melting pot of all these races. Korean & Japanese are never.

    Btw, Japanese colleague told me themselves, they are actually Manchus descendants. The real indigenous is Ainu, short dark hairy skin farmer race. So they are essentially what Chinese Hans called, the Manchus, uncivilized North Barbarian.

    Now you can flagged me as troll again if you feel pride hurt. You ask for it, so i reply with hard facts.

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
  324. Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    If you can’t, you should take a lovely gaze at US people elected prez, pinnacle of their elites, Prez Trumps, Bush, Clinton, Obama…so are UK best elites PM Blair, Cameron, May, FM Boris…these clowns are the Anglos highest standard.

    Then go some outskirts /backyards look for numourous jobless rednecks lay waste by capitalist manufacturing hollowing, Constitution rights gun violent murderers & states sponsored opiod druggies, glorified LBGT sheboy running in high heels boot preparing to bomb Syria cities incessantly to save more lifes they said, there you can find a good comparison.

    Don’t worry, the rapefugees flooding West will further improve your ave IQ.

    With so many morons ruling the West, sure well administrated Chinese or East Asian ave IQ is getting higher while the West is declining into abyss.

    Hope that help to sober up your delusion. Its not your fault, your gov brainwashed you since born. Now the train has left, no turning back. Try pick up a Chinese language course & hook a Chinese wife to get China citizenship, like some wise whites are doing now before white lost all value.

  325. Ju Ahn says:
    @Anon

    No one is denying Chinese are numerous people just like Indians. Therefore countries like China and US can afford to take their own space program while other developed countries such as Sweden cannot. However, it is also true that GDP per capita for China is lower than some of the African nations as Tyrion 2 has pointed out. Their GDP per capita (nominal) is still less than $10,000 which is not too great with many of their population still living in poverty line.

    Plus, you kept claiming west doesn’t have best of China. However, all ethnic Chinese Nobel laureates in physics studied and/or conducted research in the west. Many IMO contestants from China are also studying or have studied in U.S. universities. In addition, there are many notable mathematicians of Chinese descent in the west such as Terence Tao and Yitang Zhang. So, your claim that west isn’t getting the best and brightest of China is simply false.

    You seem to be confused what hard fact is so I’ll put it in boldface. HARD FACT: China’s nominal GDP per capita < $10,000 (less than Botswana), At least some top tier Chinese graduates study in the U.S.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language. Language is supposed to get meanings across easily and effectively, but complex characters aren’t good that purpose. If complex characters were so great, why are Chinese themselves simplifying their language nowadays as opposed to retaining traditional characters as practiced in Taiwan.

    Plus, your numerous Han Chinese army were often defeated by northern Manchus from time to time despite being vastly superior in numbers. Why did China’s 1 million army routinely defeated by northern barbarian fighters from Manchu and Mongolian army numbering less than 100,000 if Chinese were such able fighters. From this I can only conclude that Han Chinese were very feeble fighters compare to northern barbarians since they were subjugated by northern tribes for good portion of their history. [Qing Dynasty (by Machus), Yuan (by Mongols), Jin (controlled northern half of China)]

    You also say Koreans and Japanese copied Chinese customs. By the same logic, Chinese are copying Europeans costumes and science/technology today. Actually Chinese people are infamous for this kind of behavior such as industrial spies and their lack of respect for intellectual properties. Why are Chinese people producing so many counterfeit Louis Vuitton and Chanel products today if their culture is so great?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Anon
  326. @Ju Ahn

    Most of your comment veers into pretty hilarious territory(especially the “why you lose to manchus”) without considering that both times it was pretty much the immediate result of internal collapse. But one point is worth addressing in particular.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language. Language is supposed to get meanings across easily and effectively, but complex characters aren’t good that purpose. If complex characters were so great, why are Chinese themselves simplifying their language nowadays as opposed to retaining traditional characters as practiced in Taiwan.

    The answer is perhaps that is not the only function of language. Language also transmits culture and understanding through the ages; unstripped of context, it fundamentally frames and conveys meaning beyond the most basic. It is strong enough that Dr. Richard E. Nisbett found in Geography of Thought that Europeans who grew up in Asia and spoke East Asian languages perceived the world in context-dependent, “Asian” ways and vice versa for Asians who grew up in Europe and it was strongly, strongly associated with proficiency in written language.

    There’s probably a trade-off between richness and ease of use but completely dismissing the other purposes of language beyond its most direct is an error.

    Also the West obviously doesn’t have the very top Chinese students. Its mystifying how this has even gotten this far. If you’re a top scorer on the Gaokao, the logical choice is to go to Beida or Tsinghua since your tuition is tiny, and technical graduates will make between $50-80k USD in some fields and if you consider cost of living differences, this is huge.

    You might consider this to be a negative thing since the pipeline sends these students into industry rather than academia and research and its a fair point(its been talked about in China), but the trend is evident. The main reason why a Chinese student goes to the US is to get better credentials and burnish it for a higher salary, but there’s no benefit to such “hairy crab” moves if he’s already maxed out.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  327. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Very good point about language, Daniel. One of the reasons the Japanese are so poor at English is because they believe fluency would damage their ability to navigate the emotional subtleties of their own culture.

    I believe also that written Chinese characters were considered to have artistic and even sacred qualities – for instance scraps of paper with Chinese characters were collected and burned, and not just thrown in the trash, iirc, and an entire art, calligraphy, was spawned. Certainly the presence of Chinese calligraphy everywhere in traditional Chinese villages lent a pleasingly artistic air to the surroundings.

    I believe there was some movement early on in China and Japan to switch to English – had you done so, you’d be gonners.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  328. @AaronB

    Its in every single word. To some extent, its also how I(and TT) can easily tell that Yan Shen isn’t really very “Chinese” in culture. His quote is imbalanced, and therefore is not chengyu; a more appropriate quote would be: 世上无难事, 只怕有心人

    The direct translation is: “Nothing is difficult in this world, only fear those with ‘heart’ ”

    Various parts of meaning can be teased from the quote, but most specific to what, for example, my father would tell me is “xin” or heart in it: 心

    心 is a symbol of short marks, representing blood. Therefore to “put in effort” one must “bleed” for it, and a fundamental sacrifice for it. As for having sacred qualities, I think both Taoism and Kabbalistic magic has the notion of words of power, thus Taoist seals and the Jewish legend of the golem: the symbol of the word draws spirit down the Tree to give him life, the destruction of the word separates his life from him so he becomes inanimate clay again.

  329. Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ju Ahn

    You are straying off in your argument, getting personal with foolish ad homein attacks.

    I am not from China, but still i will try to clear your attack on China.

    No one is denying Chinese are numerous people just like Indians. Therefore countries like China and US can afford to take their own space program while other developed countries such as Sweden cannot.

    So you agreed there are PLENTY of rich Chinese in hundreds of millions that can afford sending their underperforming children to US uni.

    Space program is more than numerous population, you need top caliber talents as it involved too many complex technical abilities.

    Japan/Indonesia pop >Russia. EU popn >US. Africans>Russia & US. Yet they can’t do space program, why?

    If SK & NK united, one day they might as NK has exhibited their respectable technical ability. SK has to buy their AIP submarine while NK is developing on submarine with SLM submerge launch missiles.

    Ukraine with only 30~40M, is capabled in aerospace program & wide array of military & heavy industry.

    HARD FACT: China’s nominal GDP per capita < $10,000 (less than Botswana), At least some top tier Chinese graduates study in the U.S.

    No one is arguing with you on China GDP per cap. We are saying due to uneven distribution, those can afford US study is simply plenty, which you agreed. So let’s not rant further on that.

    Plus, you kept claiming west doesn’t have best of China. However, all ethnic Chinese Nobel laureates in physics studied and/or conducted research in the west. Many IMO contestants from China are also studying or have studied in U.S. universities. In addition, there are many notable mathematicians of Chinese descent in the west such as Terence Tao and Yitang Zhang. So, your claim that west isn’t getting the best and brightest of China is simply false.

    This is not my claimed, its from Chinese Ivy graduate horse mouth. Nobel prize is quite political isn’t it? Be a dissidents of West’s enemy will land you a Nobel peace prize.

    In fact, many top Chinese scientists don’t even published their papers. Eg last year one Chinese material engineer published a new finding on his blog, was immediately taken down because that technology is applicable in stealth fighter.

    There are no doubt some top tier are study in US, esp non technical like economics, but not as Tyrion claimed only the Best can study in US.

    Re-emphasized: If Spore 1st class honor graduate can excel in US ivy with scholarship/research/fellowship grant, yet China 4th teir can get Spore uni 1st Class, certainly their 2nd tier is good enough to perform in US ivy with many Nobel prize & awards.

    And how do you know there aren’t many better one than Terence Tao & Yitang graduate from Beida & Qinghua, working quietly in China, developing aerospace, Quantum, AI, light water pebble nuclear, miniature nuclear, nuke submarine, aircraft carrier & magnetism propeling sys, 6th Gen fighter jet, hypersonic missiles, jet engines, heavy rockets, satellites, next gen supercomputer, super conducter, super metallurgy,… ?

    Eg. The chief engineer of China first nuclear submarine never return home since 30s, only reappeared recently at 80s to get his medal rewards from Prez Xi. How US can know his science contribution for Nobel Prize.

    I do not get the Chinese fascination about complex characters in language

    Why do you rant on this? Im trying to reveal the history of Korean writing that many won’t aware, never say its more superior, even though it is, obviously.

    I never mentioned Chinese is capable fighter, they might in certain history, why you go into such foolish argument. I only remarked Korean is such tough fighter race that even much powerful Hans empire find difficult to subjugate historically. Its a compliment to Koreans isn’t it?

    You also say Koreans and Japanese copied Chinese customs. By the same logic, Chinese are copying Europeans costumes and science/technology today.

    Its a fact that ancient Japan sent their best people to work in China court & learn their superior customs. Korean too. But Koreans are now trying to distort the truth to say Chinese copy their Great Korean civilization 大韩文化 when their better economy make them drown in hubris. Btw, your flag is a Chinese Bagua 八卦 isn’t it?

    Chinese never denied they copy European costumes in wearing suits, they openly called it 西装(Western suits). Do Koreans call their traditional costumes 汉服(Hans Dress)? No, they change the name to 韩服(Korean Dress).

    Actually Chinese people are infamous for this kind of behavior such as industrial spies and their lack of respect for intellectual properties. Why are Chinese people producing so many counterfeit Louis Vuitton and Chanel products today if their culture is so great?

    You are now making yourself a great laughing stock for doing such ridiculous unwarranted attack.

    Firstly, Korea is world most renowned largest counterfeit mecca for luxury goods & industrial products, don’t pretend you are so ignorant.

    Korean could perfect the skill that even most experienced French socialite can’t differentiate LV /Hermes counterfeit, only when they sent for repair to discover. Chinese has much to catch up. My sisters only like Korean counterfeit because almost perfect.

    Every country does industrial espionage, with US the apex thru 5Eyes. There was a report on France found that everytime US could publish their new discovery just days before their announcement. So they tried only use paper work without electronic message for top research, and it work.

    Wikileaks revealed US NSA hacked into Huawei to get tonnes of material. Some Western countries even patented China FSR technology after asking for tender info to their surprise. They learned the hard way, the West is even more treacherous & untrustworthy.

    Japan catch up by much copying of West technology after WWII, which US purposely permit to keep Japan as counter force to Soviet & China. Korean also did that but very backward, but its now so good in copying that some suppliers are worry to sell high tech equipment to SK as they could duplicate it so fast.

    As US allies, whatever Japan & Korea did are tolerated. Even dog & cat eating, only China get single out in West msm smearing, while Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, India, …are all spared. No?

    China will be stupid not to take that proven path everyone adopted for fast catch up. But West & Japan are blocking all high tech access to China. US is always threatening to cutoff supply of monopoly high tech, eg Intel cpu that China used for supercomputer. Within one year, China developed its own indigenous cpu & roll out another world No1 supercomputer.

    Why not China design from beginning? If its commercially available, why waste so much resources to dev and produce only few thousands for own usage.

    Just yesterday US declared to block ZTE from all US products esp Qualcomm & Broadcom cpu in attempt to obstruct China lead in 5G & telcom. Soon China will have to roll out its own indigenous telcom chip sets, but its huge domestic market can easily justify the dev cost.

    How many Nobel prize Korean get? How many true innovation? You know better your limitation, even you have complete free access to West technology that China don’t.

    When the China rurals get develop, we will see how many pts Chinese IQ & SAT scores increase over SK & Japan.

    Btw, Spore Chinese diaspora is 75% of popn with 25% Malay/Indian under performing minority, so the Chinese is actually performing higher than their existing No1 scores.

    Malaysia with 75% Malay/Indian & 25% Chinese, has very low score. Indonesia with even fewer Chinese ethnic score much lower. Vietnam is doing well because if you visit, you will find most are Chinese ethnic migrants.

    And minority Chinese ethnic in every SEAsia is controlling 70% wealth, leading most businesses, professional positions & financial, except political power. This is no coincident.

    • Replies: @Ju Ahn
  330. Ju Ahn says:
    @Anon

    Again, no one is denying Chinese aren’t numerous people with large disapora in many countries. Their achievement comes from sheer numbers rather than indivudal excellence.

    You seem to be very confused about the concept of large numbers and averages. China has large population of 1.4 billion, so it’s not surprising their overall GDP is high and excel in some industries concerning space programs and others. I don’t believe this as an emanation of their individual excellence.

    Maybe if you weren’t Han chauvinist you’ll be able to distinguish between the two. But you’re basically regurgitating rhetoric of communist China which oppresses the freedoms of their own citizens and defend even North Korea in some respects.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    , @Anon
  331. Yan Shen says:
    @Ju Ahn

    Well obviously as an American I have no real dog in this fight, but it certainly is interesting seeing the Han chauvinists going at it with the Korean chauvinists…

  332. anonymous[385] • Disclaimer says:

    Whites have long been in the majority in America and, frankly, don’t want the US to become China, Vietnam, or Japan.

    You think China, Vietnam, or Japan wants to become White?

    Well, they don’t.

    People don’t want to hand over their country wholesale to another ethnic group or race.

  333. Anon[558] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ju Ahn

    Again, no one is denying Chinese aren’t numerous people with large disapora in many countries. Their achievement comes from sheer numbers rather than indivudal excellence.

    Then India should be equivalent to China in your logic by now, but look at that shithole done by its ruling caste. It will take West puff up India 100yrs to reach China level at existing growth condition unchange or 40% annual GDP growth to keep pace. But China growth will be exponential once it break the threshold of technology self sufficient in a decade.

    And Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippine, Pakistan, iran, ME, africa, Latin America, Brazil…all should perform better than Germany, France, UK, SK in your foolish logic.

    What pathetic arguments you can come out with repeatedly, that’s what i had been observing in most Samsung senior management too, short sighted, puff up confident build on self delusion & unfounded ground, except chairman Lee is exceptional far sighted.

    No doubt number is great adv, but Germany with merely 80M is world power house, exporting 1.5T high tech annually equivalent to US &:double of Japan.

    Even smaller popn SK is so impressive in its ascending, look how its replacing aging look Japan consumer products with great design & quality that smash up Japan white good industry.

    Maybe if you weren’t Han chauvinist you’ll be able to distinguish between the two. But you’re basically regurgitating rhetoric of communist China which oppresses the freedoms of their own citizens and defend even North Korea in some respects.

    You are trying to be Korean chuvinist but fall short from it in getting debunk on all your delusion burst like a balloon. Korean should be proud of their remarkable achievements, but not exceedingly to become deluded in hubris. Otherwise Lotte is the good example for SK, when Chinese tourist boycott visiting.

    China leaders have such great foresight to “oppress” its nation to survive the West onslaught, building the Great Fire Wall to block out color revolution & subversion by FB, Whatsapp & Google. You ignorant one, see how many countries are under such infiltration, including yours & mine whose leaders too spineless to resist like China, Russia, Syria, Iran, NK, Cuba, Venezuela & Philippine now.

    Go talk to every Chinese see what’s their view on their leaders & future vs West & SK in suppression. A nation of 1.4B IQ 105ave who have overwhelming faith with their great visionary leaders, we shall let time tell the truth.

    And you should flush out all your West sewage feed to you since born about korea war done cruelly to Korean people, with enigma too for residues. All koreans should be gratitude to China for defending NK with millions of soldiers life & blood.

    Here’s enigma for your polluted view:

    Who is the real evil demon? NK or US?
    globalresearch.ca/north-korea-versus-the-united-states-who-are-the-demons/28342

    Achievement of NK in healthcare, education…that WTO Secretary remarked an envy to the US.

    globalresearch.ca/north-korea-their-health-system-sucks-do-they-have-schools-and-hospitals-in-america-weve-got-medicare/5604293

    globalresearch.ca/the-social-and-economic-achievements-of-north-korea/5594234

    Wish NK & SK can reunion in peace and free from US evil empire 50yrs slavery.

    Mansudae Grand Monument

    Koryo Museum Entrance

    Wonsan City

    Pyongyang City

    Majon beach

    • Replies: @TT
  334. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Yan Shen

    Mr. Shen,

    I just posted a comment in another thread that will explain where I am coming from. Follow the link below for more details and figures:

    res,

    could you, please, do me a favor and calculate the correlation between the population/nation Met allele frequencies of Mr. Piffer’s following paper [...] and Afrosapiens‘s IQ data instead of Lynn’s IQ data, because I believe the correlation will be even stronger and will explain Piffer’s contradictory finding: “Particularly interesting is the relatively low frequency of COMT in East Asian populations (range 0.22–0.30), which contrasts with their reported higher IQ (105).” – p. 169
    [...]
    ["]Thus, the global correlation between IQ and Met allele frequency is r = 0.579 and highly statistically significant (n = 38; P < 0.001). This supports the prediction that populations with higher Met allele frequency have higher IQ, similarly to the correlation observed at the individual level.["]
    [...]
    I agree with Afrosapiens that Lynn has overestimated East Asian intelligence, and I believe that COMT Met is still the best genetic predictor of intelligence, even though some researchers like Emil Kirkegaard disagree

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/piffers-equation-further-updated/#comment-2297648

  335. TT says:
    @The Negro

    Having said all of that, still China’s ascendency will stall quickly because the Chinese have just eliminated the most innovative aspect of their political system: The peaceful transfer of power from one leader to anther in every 10 years. But now that Xi jinping is anointed as the king forever, his cronies will feel secure. As a result, nepotism and corruption will be rife. And like every other power in history, china will slip, and the gravity will pull her down. That is inventible.

    Why not read up abit before ranting old wrong thing after these have been much discussed in Mr Geoffrey Roberts articles.

    http://www.unz.com/article/chinese-president-xi-jinping-who-is-he/

    China’s constitution declares that the country is ruled “under the leadership” of the Communist Party of China (CPC).[194] As China is a de facto one-party state, the General Secretary (party leader) holds ultimate power and authority over state and government serving as the paramount leader.[195] The electoral system is pyramidal. Local People’s Congresses are directly elected, and higher levels of People’s Congresses up to the National People’s Congress (NPC) are indirectly elected by the People’s Congress of the level immediately below.[196] The political system is decentralized, and provincial and sub-provincial leaders have a significant amount of autonomy.[197] Another eight political parties, have representatives in the NPC and the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC).[198] China supports the Leninist principle of “democratic centralism”,[199]

    90M of elites party member elected their representatives, gradually up to Politburo of 6~ central party Politburo members that are proven over decades of performance.

    The President is the titular head of state, elected by the National People’s Congress. The Premier is the head of government, presiding over the State Council composed of four vice premiers and the heads of ministries and commissions. The incumbent president is Xi Jinping, who is also the General Secretary of the Communist Party of China and the Chairman of the Central Military Commission, making him China’s paramount leader. The incumbent premier is Li Keqiang, who is also a senior member of the CPC Politburo Standing Committee, China’s de facto top decision-making body.[201][135]

    Now you understand, Prez is only ceremonial. Whether permanent or two terms doesn’t matter. Party GenSec & Military Chairman are the true leadership power, that all Prez hold traditionally, they have no term limitation, but subjected to party members election.

    With China reaching its 40yrs achievement & crossing to next phase of 100yrs grand plan, a Prez of final term is a sitting duck (same as Potus). So party wanted Prez Xi to see through the China dream for longer time. Even over 90++% Chinese & dissidents like Ai weiwei has no complaint when interviewed, yet the West & now the negro are busy shrieking Emperor long lives!!!

    But even before that, China’s influence in the world affairs will be very limited by culture, because the Chinese are closed and are busy with one thing, and one thing alone: Accumulating things(wealth).However, the weakest link of China that would forever cripple not only her influence, but her potential as well is China’s indifference to the welfare of others.

    Without economic, there is no world influence, no strong military. Without strong military, there is no influence in geopolitical, but opium wars.

    Now that it has arrived at 2nd GDP with 3rd Military power, its building up Deep water Navy for power projection at own affordability without dragging economy down. Soft power has just start to roll out with Chinese civilization, Confucianism, etc. but US with its 5eyes lackeys Oz is screaming China influence to control our countries.

    When China is only UNSC permanent members with no aircraft carriers for power projection in last 50yrs, people like you are crying China is weak & never care about defending others. Neighbors stole its SCS islands.

    When China build up its power projection force to protect its sprawling global business & defend its allies, people scream China is going hedgmon!!!

    For instance, 700,000 Rohingya Muslims of Burma were slaughtered, raped, and burned alive at China’s doorsteps. China is the top dog in that area, and the most powerful country in the whole region. So, the question is: Did China save even one single Rohingya family? Nope! When you are that uncaring to the rest of the humanity, you are not going to get very far, no matter how many material things you accumulate. Thus, indifference to the welfare of others is China’s Achilles heel!

    Haven’t you notice and wonder why a sudden intense outpouring of entire Western msm 24/7 reporting since last year …with the USNato countries and their allied Muslim countries(Saudi and Turkey) gone hysteria overdrive in calling for UN immediate intervention, claiming the worst Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing of century?

    They have never show single concern for these people, since 1960′s, why not they accept Rohingya, stop slaughtering Yemenis, Syrians, etc.

    US CIA, UK, France, EU, Turkey, Saudi arabia are the team of evils behind the whole Myanmar Rohingya crisis propaganda to block China Obor node & energy securing alternative path at West Myanmar Rakkhaine. Large oil & gas offshore is found & pipe to China. Rohingya are illegal migrants Bengalis from Bangladesh brought in by British to attack & colonize Myanmar in 1950′s. How can Myanmar accept them as minority?

    Ironically these hands behind Rohingya crisis are also the same committing naked genocide & atrocities in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Africa…in the name of “humanity”.

    Read these:
    1. Why US &Saudi is backing Rohingya suddenly

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/why-u-s-and-saudi-arabia-back-rohingya-in-myanmar/5613015


    2. Who is responsible for the direct killing

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/who-is-responsible-for-ethnic-cleansing-in-myanmar/5611486

    3. Rohingya pawns of US & Saudi.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-rohingya-of-myanmar-pawns-in-an-anglo-chinese-proxy-war-fought-by-saudi-jihadists/5607605

    Who is feeding Rohingya now, helping Myanmar to defend against FUKUS attack. Who else, only China. Read http://www.globaltimes.cn
    bottom all history what China did, more than all Muslim countries combined.

    India Assam is facing similar Rohingya akar Bengali- Bangladesh Chittagong illegal migrants in 10millions. India is more violent towards Muslims, have you heard anything from West msm? No, India is FUKUS best ally.

    These are what CIA want, drive the Muslims to hate China, like Soviet case, using Wahabism jihadists to attack China globally hence keeping Fukus hedgmon.

    Thank you for helping CIA to keep American forever great & murderous, slaying all your brethens while blaming China & Russia.

    • Replies: @anon
  336. @Ju Ahn

    And perhaps we could find some sort of… empirical, real world method of comparing the immigration policy of your country with that of mine, hmm? When it comes down to it, that’s what matters, not words. What percentage of Korean citizens are naturalized? Naturalized, and of non-Korean (let alone non-Asian) descent? You’re flailing here.

  337. @Daniel Chieh

    Your pathetic failure to give the (obviously correct) answer of “zero” is duly noted.

  338. @Wizard of Oz

    “Interesting to extend your thought experiment of Disraeli as a kind of one man AIPAC (with some Jewish network substituted for Israel)”

    You’re being excessively literally-minded here. I’m making a point with respect to identity. If you read Disraeli’s own works, it’s clear where his primary identity (and loyalty) lies. Yet he wanted to be accepted as “truly English” despite this, by intermittently adopting a transparently dishonest veneer of English identity. Our modern-day Zionist dual citizens do the same.

  339. @Yan Shen

    Must be just evil, “racist” Whitey, then. Do Malysians see Chinese settlers as “just another Malaysian?” Do Vietnamese see them as “just another Vietnamese?”

    As far as the alleged nonexistence of overseas Chinese solidarity — are they as unified, and as disdainful of the interests of their host countries, as the sayanim? Perhaps not. But that’s a pretty high bar, of course. Don’t see too many espionage case involving China where the culprit is of other than Chinese descent, now do ya?

  340. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jameson

    Do you honestly think that the USA in our year 2018 is “meritocracy”?

    Do you think the Hollywood film industry is open to any and all and the most talented writers, directors and actors are promoted completely on merit – that’s why we get such outstanding movies like the Feminist remake of Ghostbusters or the fine, uplifting movies of George Clooney, Quentin Tarantino and Harvey Weinstein.

    I studied and got the high SAT, GMAT score attended supposedly top 20 undergraduate and MBA programs (Vanderbilt BA, Stern NYU MBA). Over 90% of my Stern MBA course material was/is completely useless in the real world, 3 years later I was working at minimum wage at Kinkos.

    American colleges and universities tend to be extremely hostile to White heterosexual midwestern men, Southerners etc – the career placement offices in particularly are dominated by women who are extremely hostile to men especially White Gentile/Christian men.

    And Hollywood, the television & entertainment industries are dominated by an ethnic mafia notorious for ethnic nepotism and hatred for all things

    White
    Southern
    Midwestern
    Christian

    Do you think that Rolling Stone Magazines smear piece accusing University of Virginia Fraternity members of gang rape pledge initiations – do you think that had anything to do with any “meritocracy”?

    How about PC Cartoonists Doonesbury’s Gary Trudeau going along with this Rolling Stone rape hoax or Trudeau taking the side of Algerian Islamist terrorists who slaughtered French Cartoonists Charlie Hebo?

    I kind of have to wonder…..

    What planet you live on.

  341. @Daniel Chieh

    “They will see him as: “American-Chinese.”

    The reality is that people like us are in reality essentially the out-group everywhere.”

    Of course culture matters as well. This is far more true of Japanese going back to Japan than it is of Chinese, actually. And of anyone of mixed race, of course.

    Though Yan Shen is being more accurate (honest?) than you, in giving the term, not as hyphenated, but as “American Born Chinese.” There’s a reason why “Chinese” is the noun, and “American Born” the modifier, after all. Race-denialism is doesn’t really seem to have taken hold in China…

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  342. anonymous[739] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lugash

    “A white person who spoke up would have gotten harassed or beaten.”

    I respond:

    Nah, don’t be a wimp.

    I’m in my mid 50s – I have stood up to these idiot Lib Left protesters my entire life when I was 7 years old in 1968 Chicago it was a daily battle every single day!

    I recommend White guys and gals do what I did:

    Become a 7th and 8th grade inner city public school teacher. That toughened my up. Learn to give as well as take.

    Humor is a great weapon – a sword to be used against our enemies.

  343. @GammaRay

    You may congratulate yourself on your imagined skills at mental telepathy now. Clearly, you are projecting your baseless (yet amusing) “moral” self-righteousness onto your perceived enemies, and the objects of your mindless hatred.

    Clearly, I must spell it out at greater length (yet more simply) for one of your massive cognitive abilities.

    1. Let’s start with your faith-based belief (apparently swallowed whole from your teevee, your sociology professor, or both) that White Europeans are the only people ever to migrate, settle, colonize, or conquer. This is touching in its naïveté, but rather strange. Do you somehow imagine that all non-Whites grew up out of the soil, in the countries where they now predominate, and never did any of these things? Even stranger. Educate yourself. When did Greece finally break free from Ottoman imperialism? How many millions of White Europeans were enslaved by the Ottoman Turks? And where did the Turks come from originally, anyway? How did they end up taking over Anatolia? Were they invited?

    2. One can judge this (or not) in moral terms, but it’s a fact. Europeans were simply better at this than other peoples were for the last few hundred years.

    3. Replacement level non-White immigration is not an “unintended consequence,” of course. it is an intended consequence of specific policies adopted by an alien, hostile elite. What, you think all of these people just fell from the sky one day? Teleported themselves from the Third World to White countries? Please.

    Now of course, you’re going to start whining again “B-b-but that’s different! I’m not making the usual anti-White argument!” Not quite, but the embedded assumption of your “argument” is still that it is somehow morally illegitimate for Whites to oppose their “inevitable” displacement. Whether you regard European colonialism, or Ottoman colonialism, or expansion by any other group as good, bad, or neutral is beside the point. You’re still making a moral argument, and one that is based on the same assumptions, just with some additional irrelevant pilpul added.

    “You are trying to claim that I am making the argument that everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds, when in fact I was never making that argument to begin with. The only arguments I was making was one of being morally consistent, and also that of dealing with unintended consequences.”

    Nope. There is no significant difference between “everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds” and “It’s morally illegitimate for Whites (and White only) to oppose their own displacement because ‘moral consistency’ and bla bla bla.”

    One more time — I’m pointing out that your pretended “moral consistency” is merely a threadbare conceit laid over the top of the typical “Whitey is uniquely evil, and dem poor innocent POCs dindu nuffin” blabber. Pathetic. Keep trying, though. It’s kinda comical, actually.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  344. @James Forrestal

    Oh please. The very fact that American-Chinese can’t do anything related to the government without special permission might be a hint that the government doesn’t consider them as “Chinese.”

    But as my friend Spandrell said:

    Well as I often say, if you don’t get something, that’s a statement about the limits of your intellect rather than about the nature of the problem. If you don’t get something, the problem is with you, not with the issue. Go try and understand it, and then come back.

    The problem is with you. But there’s no point to trying to make you understand your error – my contempt for the Alt-Right, such as it is, is due to familiarity. I’ve been in enough to know that you have a chronic issue of punching yourself in the face.

    So keep it up and toodles.

    Remember: Ignorance is your greatest strength.

    • Agree: GammaRay
    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  345. @James Forrestal

    I think, without returning pedantically to what I have previously said, that I would emphasise again his lack of anything much to be loyal to in a potentially conflictual way. There was no Zionist movement or great rescue mission for those in the Czar’s empire (as to whom, come to think of it, Disraeli would have shared the snobbery of assimilating German Jews). Test question: was Disraeli a proto-Zionist? I think his imagination was up to it but, when I Googled that question I found this which probably adds something to what we both know from distant memory:

    https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/02/27/jewish-identity-through-the-eyes-of-benjamin-disraeli/

    Cheers
    PS Note what it says about his attempting to dissuade the Rothschilds from identifying as Jews.

  346. @Yan Shen

    “I’m shocked that you would accuse me of endorsing either the Blank Slate or Magic Dirt”
    “it’s also highly flawed to accuse me of Han racial supremacism”

    I was exaggerating for effect (and using the term “supremacism” ironically, of course). Though the premise of this entire piece is based on promoting Chinese behavior (regardless of the relative contributions of genes and environment to that behavior) as “superior,” of course. (By comparing it to African/ Africanized behavioral norms)

    What you actually do is shift between perspectives as they are convenient to your goals. It is rather inconsistent, you must admit, to argue for a significant, even majority genetic component to human behavioral traits (HBD), while supporting The Narrative’s “proposition nation” and “diversity” tropes. Diversity + proximity = conflict. If the basis of that “diversity” of identity (and behavior) has a significant genetic basis, then the conflict is clearly irreconcilable.

    “On the other hand, I can kinda sorta subscribe to the notion of the Proposition Nation.”

    The term “nation-state” is not redundant. “Nation” is not a synonym for “country” or “state.” A nation is not a patch of ground, or lines on a map, or a piece of paper. It’s a people, with a common heritage and culture. Sure, it’s not geometry; there are no bright lines. There’s always a certain amount of mixing/ assimilation. But too much, and you destroy the nation.

    In short, the term “proposition nation” is not merely nonsensical; it’s self-contradictory.

    Do you believe that China is a “proposition nation?” Why or why not?

    “Regardless of whether or not HBD is valid, I do think there’s a lot to be said for adopting the right cultural values and attitudes and basically working to maximize the most of what you’re born with. You really can’t ask for more than for each person to give their absolute best effort.”

    Well, yeah. Of course.

  347. @Daniel Chieh

    Triggered by your own dishonesty? That’s unfortuante. Just take a couple of deep breaths and try to calm down. I’m worried about your blood pressure here…

  348. GammaRay says:
    @James Forrestal

    Once again you have shown your inability to comprehend simple arguments. I will very plainly put forth my original logic again:

    1.the importance of being internally consistent about your views regarding your own cultural/racial survival and your attitudes towards colonial actions carried out by the group which you identify yourself with.

    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.

    The alt-right/white nationalists have the right to make moral/ethical arguments against mass immigration and multiculturalism only if they first amend their current apologetic stance regarding the western colonization of the world. If they are unable or unwilling to do this, then any arguments they make regarding the morality/ethicalness of mass immigration to the west will not be taken seriously by anybody. Who values the word of a hypocrite? Nobody

    Your low comprehension abilities has made it so that you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument which incidentally involves the west. My point entirely revolves around the importance of moral consistency. Alt-righters/WN who insist on being proud of the west’s extensive colonial history while simultaneously crying about how unfair mass immigration is are no different than a serial thief who complains about other people stealing from him. This is a very simple point, I don’t understand how you continue to misunderstand this. Your response trying to debunk this was completely off the mark since you didn’t understand the argument that was being made in the first place.

    3. Replacement level non-White immigration is not an “unintended consequence,” of course. it is an intended consequence of specific policies adopted by an alien, hostile elite. What, you think all of these people just fell from the sky one day? Teleported themselves from the Third World to White countries? Please.

    This doesn’t invalidate my original point:

    2.Practically speaking (all moral considerations aside), it strongly appears that the west has set itself up for disaster by inadvertently setting the stage for globalization, which in turn allowed mass-immigration to manifest by providing the technological and political framework necessary for it to happen in the first place. Had western colonization never happened then the rest of the world outside of europe would still be stuck in a timeless, relatively technologically unadvanced state. It was the west that brought the rest of the world into the modern age, kicking and screaming. Don’t forget that. And now it is the west that will inadvertently end up paying the price for it. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

    You do realize that had the west never colonized the rest of the world, then there would be no globalization, and without globalization, there would be no multiculturalism or mass-immigration in the modern day west? The west set itself up by creating the conditions under which “replacement level non-White immigration” could occur in the first place. This is undeniable. Also why are you complaining about alien, hostile elites while simultaneously making apologetic arguments for western colonization, which was in effect the implementation of an alien, hostile elite over pretty much the entire non-western world?

    Nope. There is no significant difference between “everyone should try to amend for their own colonial misdeeds” and “It’s morally illegitimate for Whites (and White only) to oppose their own displacement because ‘moral consistency’ and bla bla bla.”

    I never said that whites are not allowed to oppose their own displacement. This is what I originally wrote:

    The alt-right/white nationalists are entitled to make practical arguments against immigration, but they are not entitled to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration unless they first ditch the whole “we whites were colonists and we did nothing wrong” shtick; it is completely hypocritical and it also sounds completely absurd, hollow and unconvincing to anyone who doesn’t share their views.

    Whites are perfectly entitled to make practical arguments against immigration; but its “morally illegitimate” for whites to make moral/ethical arguments against immigration if they still insist on condoning western colonization. If the alt-right/WN want to make a serious, ethical, principled stance against mass immigration then they need to make sure that their own attitudes regarding western colonization reflect this ethos as well. If they fail to do this then all of their moral/ethical arguments will ring hollow and be seen as unconvincing by everybody else. You only hurt yourself by being a hypocrite, keep that in mind. Unfortunately its a lesson that the alt-right/WN will never learn, you guys consistently act against your own best interests due to you all being unable to control your own intense hubris and racial/cultural chauvinism.

  349. You’re merely repeating (at greater, yet more ignorant, length) your original nonsensical “argument.” Clearly, you lack even the minimal reasoning ability required to comprehend its internal inconsistency — or perhaps have somehow convinced yourself that you can make up for it by doubling down on your dogmatic, ignorant, hate-filled race denialism. Sad.

    Your basic argument is the same, despite its meaningless rhetorical flourishes. Part of it seems to be the typically Far Left inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements; and of course part of it stems from your (wholly misplaced) confidence in your own “intelligence” and “morality.”

    “you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument…bla bla bla more pilpul and sophistry at greater and more pointless length”

    1. At whom is your argument directed, hmm? Do you understand what the term “deliberately disingenuous” means? I thought not.

    2. So you support open borders for China? India? Israel?

    3. You seem remarkably determined to maintain your “abstract moral argument” in such a rarefied state of abstraction that it is entirely free-floating, and not grounded in anything even approaching empirical support. This sort of worthless, transparently-false imitation of actual logical argumentation is typical of the Far Left (and of a certain ethnic group, of course).

    Repeating your initial misconceptions, only at greater length, and with more emotional incontinence, while ignoring my (very basic) point, does nothing to legitimize your “argument.” You’re shadowboxing here — engaging with the demons of your fervid imagination, rather than the arguments right in front of you. Again, this is typical of the Far Left; they fail to comprehend the Right’s actual arguments (which they have no answer for, anyway), and choose instead to engage with the caricatures of those arguments that their teevees spoon-feed to them. Sad.

    Again — all races/ peoples/ cultures expand/ settle / invade when they get the chance. This is an (obviously true) observation about the real world, not a moral judgment. I have no “moral obligation” to accept your pathetic attempts to push White guilt on me. I’m merely noting that you would never attempt to push Turk guilt on the Turks, or North African guilt on the descendants of the Barbary pirates, or Jew guilt on those responsible for the Bolshevik revolution Everyone has the right to self-defense. Of course, your rabid, unreasoning anti-White hatred leads you to convince yourself that somehow every other race does, but Whites do not.

    But keep on rationalizing your hatred, at even greater length. Go right ahead. It’s clear that the process somehow paradoxically raises your badly misplaced sense of your own virtuousness to even greater heights. Have fun.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
    , @GammaRay
  350. GammaRay says:
    @James Forrestal

    You’re merely repeating (at greater, yet more ignorant, length) your original nonsensical “argument.” Clearly, you lack even the minimal reasoning ability required to comprehend its internal inconsistency — or perhaps have somehow convinced yourself that you can make up for it by doubling down on your dogmatic, ignorant, hate-filled race denialism. Sad.

    Wrong. Just because you claim that my arguments are wrong, does not make them wrong. I suspect you know this too, and that’s why you avoid digging too deep into the actual substance of my arguments and instead prefer to flit around the edges and try to throw out non-sequitur responses

    Your basic argument is the same, despite its meaningless rhetorical flourishes. Part of it seems to be the typically Far Left inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements; and of course part of it stems from your (wholly misplaced) confidence in your own “intelligence” and “morality.”

    Instead of simply flinging accusations; please clearly show why my rhetoric is meaningless instead of merely claiming that it is meaningless. You are trying to accuse me of being unable to distinguish between normative and positive statements because you are either unable to or unwilling to discuss the merits of my arguments themselves. I stand behind my arguments and have no problem discussing their merits with you.

    “you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument…bla bla bla more pilpul and sophistry at greater and more pointless length”

    1. At whom is your argument directed, hmm? Do you understand what the term “deliberately disingenuous” means? I thought not.

    Its pretty obvious that I’m making an abstract moral argument. You just use the terms pilpul (your favorite word) and sophistry in order to try to ad hom my argument instead of actually discussing it:

    Your low comprehension abilities has made it so that you think I am making an argument specifically against the west (typical WN victimization complex), when its obvious that I am making an abstract moral argument which incidentally involves the west. My point entirely revolves around the importance of moral consistency. Alt-righters/WN who insist on being proud of the west’s extensive colonial history while simultaneously crying about how unfair mass immigration is are no different than a serial thief who complains about other people stealing from him. This is a very simple point, I don’t understand how you continue to misunderstand this. Your response trying to debunk this was completely off the mark since you didn’t understand the argument that was being made in the first place.

    The point I made is very clear. There is hardly any ambiguity here; and any people that are reading our exchange can clearly see what I wrote as well. If you choose to embrace moral consistency or reject it, its up to you; but that doesnt change the validity of my point. Do you realize how ridiculous it looks when alt-righters/WN condone the west’s centuries of violent conquests and destruction of other races and cultures but then turn around and preach about the sanctity of racial/cultural preservation and how every race deserves a homeland? That is called hypocrisy my friend. You are perfectly free to disregard my call for greater moral consistency on the far-right; but its at your own peril not mine.

    2. So you support open borders for China? India? Israel?

    If china, india or israel had colonized the entire world (in the process destroying countless cultures and indigenous peoples) just so that they could exploit the land for their own benefit then yes, I would not feel bad seeing these countries end up having to deal with the unexpected/unforeseen consequence of their immoral actions. That being said, I have never advocated open borders, rather I only made the neutral observation that the west is being unexpectedly haunted by its colonial past. I don’t think that anybody really debates the validity of this observation. Even you don’t debate it, that’s why you continue to tiptoe around it instead of taking that argument head on. Anyways, you seem to have this odd notion that I am only applying my logic to the west when really I hold everyone to these same standards. If any culture/civilization/etc decides to act in an immoral fashion and then ends up getting screwed over because of it later on, then they fully deserve what happens to them. I don’t care if they’re white, black, yellow etc etc.

    3. You seem remarkably determined to maintain your “abstract moral argument” in such a rarefied state of abstraction that it is entirely free-floating, and not grounded in anything even approaching empirical support. This sort of worthless, transparently-false imitation of actual logical argumentation is typical of the Far Left (and of a certain ethnic group, of course).

    Repeating your initial misconceptions, only at greater length, and with more emotional incontinence, while ignoring my (very basic) point, does nothing to legitimize your “argument.” You’re shadowboxing here — engaging with the demons of your fervid imagination, rather than the arguments right in front of you. Again, this is typical of the Far Left; they fail to comprehend the Right’s actual arguments (which they have no answer for, anyway), and choose instead to engage with the caricatures of those arguments that their teevees spoon-feed to them. Sad.

    You accuse me of pilpul and making empty arguments, but isn’t this exactly what you’re doing? I’m imploring you to discuss the topic itself, but you seem to be fixated on arguing about how I am arguing instead.

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  351. GammaRay says:
    @James Forrestal

    Again — all races/ peoples/ cultures expand/ settle / invade when they get the chance. This is an (obviously true) observation about the real world, not a moral judgment. I have no “moral obligation” to accept your pathetic attempts to push White guilt on me. I’m merely noting that you would never attempt to push Turk guilt on the Turks, or North African guilt on the descendants of the Barbary pirates, or Jew guilt on those responsible for the Bolshevik revolution Everyone has the right to self-defense. Of course, your rabid, unreasoning anti-White hatred leads you to convince yourself that somehow every other race does, but Whites do not.

    Not necessarily. What you’re saying is patently untrue. If this was true, then why did the ming dynasty willingly destroy their (massive) fleet and then voluntarily close their borders to the outside world? They had the chance to expand and settle, but they chose not to. Not all cultures value expansion and colonialism as much as the west does. The ming dynasty is only one example; I’m sure there are plenty of other examples where others cultures had the opportunity to expand/invade but instead chose not to. You are only pushing this erroneous line of reasoning because it is convenient for you and it exonerates the west; however its a piece of reasoning that doesn’t hold up so well when put to the test. You need to understand, not every culture is as warlike, domineering and expansive as western european culture is; different cultures simply have different prerogatives.

    White nationalists always want to brag about how intrepid, brave and adventurous white people are compared to other races; well…with that kind of mindset, global colonization is what you get. White nationalists always want to brag about how unique and different white people are when it comes to anything positive about white people, but then all the sudden whenever anything negative comes up white nationalists always try to backtrack and act as if everybody possesses equal capacity for doing bad things. That’s pretty disingenuous if you ask me

    Also I find it funny that you want to claim the law of the jungle with regards to the ubiquity of colonialism and how that precludes any kind of universal moral judgment being passed against it, yet in the same paragraph you suddenly want to talk about how everyone has the right to self defense. So basically you are trying to imply that universal notions of morality do not exist when it comes to colonization, but then suddenly universal notions of morality exist when it comes to self defense IE cultural preservation? If according to you my assertion that colonialism is immoral is baseless, then just what are you basing your own idea of universal right to self defense on? You’re basically trying to selectively enforce morality at this point, and you only talk about “rights” when it benefits you, instead of being morally consistent and applying notions of morality equally no matter what.

    The turks, north africans or jews were not the primary topic of discussion in this particular conversation; hence that is why nobody discusses their culpability or blame. If we were specifically discussing the turks, north africans or jews within that sort of context then I would have no problem objectively discussing their potential culpability. We are discussing the culpability of the west with regards to colonization because it is tangential, not because of any personal biases. That being said, I am personally biased against hypocrites, but this is a bias that transcends race and color lines.

    But keep on rationalizing your hatred, at even greater length. Go right ahead. It’s clear that the process somehow paradoxically raises your badly misplaced sense of your own virtuousness to even greater heights. Have fun.

    Not really, Im as cool as a cucumber. And yes, I am having fun dissecting your arguments and verbally jousting with you

  352. @James Forrestal

    Closer to home I have just seen, on the day before Anzac Day, which General Sir John Monash led Australians in celebrating annually, the first of a two part documentary by a filmmaker- journalist whose family members in the Austraian Army in WW1 were also of recent German ancestry. Monash was a distinguished engineer who had become a citizen army Colonel by the time war broke out (and a man whose ability and reputation led Chief Justice Sir Owen Dixon to say to me “any solicitor who failed to retain him as expert witness was prima facie guilty of negligence”. Dixon was about 20 years younger than Monash but knew him well). After a group of hyper-patriots had failed soon after war broke out to have him retired on the ground that his parents had been immigrants from Germany it wasn’t the end of opposition – in the case of C.E.W.Bean who became Australia’s official war historian flavoured by anti-Semitism and by Rupert Murdoch’s father for reasons I don’t know. By 1917 or18 when he had been appointed to command all Australian troops with many generals under him Prime Minister Billy Hughes had been got at by Bean and Murdoch and turned up in France to sack him. Fortunately he discovered that Bean and Murdoch had been lying and every one of his subordinate generals supported him, as did the British. So Monash, who remained a Jew (with approx. King David’s eye for the girls) became the man whose name has been given to a top university, a major highway, a town, a suburb,an electorate where I happen to live etc etc. He is also famous for founding the State Electricity Commission of Victoria based on vast deposits of brown coal. Actually I should have said see Wikipedia because it is said there in a quote that he was regarded at the time of his death in 1931 as the greatest living Australian and that his prestige and presence “made anti-Semitism impossible” [well no if you did a bit of burrowing and listened hard]. It is quite easy to see why he would agree to become the founding President of the Zionist Federation of Australia in 1927 without his having any divided loyalties or knowing what attitudes he would have had after later events, especially the Six Day War. (Consider how an Australian General of Prussian Jewish ancestry, knighted by the British King, would have regarded those Polish and Russian Jews who blew up the King David Hotel!).

  353. @GammaRay

    I haven’t followed your dispute but picked up your reference to the Ming choice to cut China off after the great explorations in the early 15th century. I think it would be most relevant to consider what might have been decided if China’s population had grown, as it later did, to a size which was difficult to keep happily fed. By or in the 18th century the British population was exploding and, as the 1840s Irish Famine shows, the ruling classes of Britain couldn’t complacently take the view that there would be jobs and food for them all.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  354. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Yan Shen

    Please learn how to think distributionally…

    Mr. Shen,

    I just came across some highly interesting research. “Normal” distribution in regards to IQ has never entirely made sense to me, whereas asymmetrical distribution, what is also referred to as “positively/negatively skewed” distribution, makes much more sense to me when it comes to IQ:

    Skew. The skew of a distribution refers to how the curve leans. When a curve has extreme scores on the right hand side of the distribution, it is said to be positively skewed. In other words, when high numbers are added to an otherwise normal distribution, the curve gets pulled in an upward or positive direction. When the curve is pulled downward by extreme low scores, it is said to be negatively skewed. The more skewed a distribution is, the more difficult it is to interpret.

    Figure 8.3: Distribution Skew

    Source: https://allpsych.com/researchmethods/distributions/

    Here is the paper:

    IS INTELLIGENCE DISTRIBUTED NORMALLY?

    By CYRIL BURT
    University College, London

    Link: http://www.abelard.org/burt/burt-ie.asp Archived link: http://archive.is/VcK9O

    [MORE]

    {p175} Frequency distributions obtained on applying intelligence tests to large samples of the school population are analysed, and compared with those given by the formulae for the commoner types of frequency curve. It is noted that the distributions actually observed are more asymmetrical and have longer tails than that described by the normal curve. The best fit is given by a curve of Type IV: this is in fact the type of distribution we should expect if (as has been argued in earlier papers) individual differences in general ability are determined partly by multi-factorial and partly by uni-factorial inheritance. It follows that the usual assumption of normality leads to a gross underestimate of the number of highly gifted individuals. The conclusions thus drawn are confirmed by a study of data from other sources; and various practical corollaries are deduced.

    V. SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS

    A detailed analysis of test results obtained from a large sample of English children (4,665 in all), supplemented by a study of the meagre data already available, demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that the distribution of individual differences in general intelligence by no means conforms with strict exactitude to the so-called normal curve. In the present inquiry an endeavour has been made to exclude all cases where non-genetic factors appeared to play an important part; and, in doing so, in order to forestall any suspicion as to a preconceived bias, we have always sought, wherever any doubt arose, to deal quite ruthlessly with any cases which might tend to impair the requirements of a normal distribution. When this is done, the discrepancies remaining are admittedly by no means large. Nevertheless, they appear to be fully significant statistically.

    The main divergences are due to an elongation of the tails in both directions and to a marked tendency towards negative asymmetry. These are in fact the divergences we should expect if, as I have argued elsewhere, unifactorial as well as multifactorial modes of inheritance are the basic causes of the individual differences so found.� The calculated constants suggest that the distribution actually obtained can be fitted much more appropriately with a curve belonging to Pearson’s Type IV. The discrepancies between the actual frequencies and the theoretical frequencies calculated on this assumption prove to be statistically non-significant. Type IV is the type we should expect from the combined operation of the two modes of inheritance; it is also the type that yields the closest fit to the majority of distributions reported for biological data generally.

    For many practical purposes, particularly when dealing with small samples and with children falling within a fairly limited range, the tabulated values for the normal curve will give a reasonable approximation.� But they furnish very misleading assessments for the number of individuals showing an extreme deviation in either direction from the general mean. The fact that the number of subnormal individuals is far larger than that which would be expected from a strictly Gaussian distribution has long been suspected by various writers, both on genetic and on statistical grounds.� What seems hitherto to have escaped general notice is the fact that the number of supernormal individuals also shows a similar though slightly smaller excess.� And the evidence here summarized indicates that the current assumption of normality has led to a gross underestimate of the number of highly gifted children in the school population. Thus the proportion of those with I.Q.s over 160 proves to be more than 12 times as that deduced from the normal curve, and the proportion of those with I.Q.s over 175, instead of being only about 3 or 4 per million (assumed in several official or semi-official statements), must be at least 70 per million, probably more.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
  355. GammaRay says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    This is an interesting question and definitely worth looking into. That being said, I do not buy into the reasoning that an exploding british population is the only or even major reason behind colonization. From learning about european culture, and understanding the general weltanschauung of white people, as well as from having extensive social experience with them; it is clearly evident to me that there is a strong extraversive, expansive component that exists in the white collective consciousness which under certain circumstances strongly compels them to colonize, displace and replace much more so than other races would do so under similar circumstances. What alt-righters/WN would call “ambition” and “drive”, others might prefer to recognize it as “greed”. Regardless of the semantic trivialities; it is clear that there is a strong internal drive within westerners that causes them to vigorously pursue both the physical and cultural colonization of “the other”. This is not a negative or positive judgment though; it is merely intended to be understood as an objective observation.

  356. I suspect that it started with Vikings getting into boats and discovering what a raw climatic hand they had been dealt :-)

    • LOL: GammaRay
  357. Yan Shen says:
    @FKA Max

    I think I had read before that IQ was non-Gaussian at the tails, so more high end talent than what a normal distribution would’ve predicted, as your link argues as well.

    That being said, your thesis that average Chinese IQ is lower than that of average African American IQ is so preposterous that it’s really not even worth responding to or contemplating. Whether on average or at the tail end, Chinese outperform African Americans so significantly that the only thing less likely than your thesis being true is maybe that Thomm fellow actually being white.

    I can assure you that regardless of how the Chinese IQ and African American IQ curves actually look, I would be extremely surprised if at basically every percentile of the respective populations Chinese IQ wasn’t substantially higher than African American IQ.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  358. @GammaRay

    You seem determined to demonstrate (yet again) your irrational conviction that mindless, vitriolic anti-White hatred and explosive, uncontrollable logorrhea can somehow make up for the complete, pathetic absence of anything resembling rational, empirically-based argumentation. Sad.

    It appears that you have mastered the basics of spelling and grammar, so it is unlikely that this seeming conviction is entirely honest — hence “disingenuous” (look it up). But assuming for the moment that your toxic stew of meaningless rhetoric and rabid hatred is actually meant to form some semblance of sincere argumentation, I’ll try to spell out (again) at a level that you might be capable of at least partially comprehending, why your pathetic, desperate insistence that I simply must accept your “White guilt” canard is completely meaningless.

    One more time: although your irrational, genocidal anti-White hatred seems to have left you with the cognitive equivalent of tunnel vision (or at least a very severe visual field defect), reality does exist beyond the constraints of your very limited conception of it. Your repeated regurgitation of the tired, worn-out “Evil Whitey is uniquely evil… because muh teevee and muh sociology professor told me so!” trope is simply not an argument. You seem to have difficulty comprehending this at any level of abstraction, so I’ll try to make it more concrete for you. You’re welcome.

    When was the last time that you insisted that Mongolia must accept millions of racially and culturally alien invaders, because of the depredations of Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, etc.? Have you ever insisted that the Bantu need to admit how “wrong” they were to displace the Khoisan and the pygmies, and that they somehow are obligated to make up for their crimes? When have you insisted that the Turks need to apologize for invading Anatolia, and that they need to somehow make up for this by accepting millions of racially alien invaders? Have you insisted that they, and the North Africans, need to bow down and apologize for enslaving millions of White Europeans? How about the Jews, and their responsibility for the millions who died under Bolshevism? What have you demanded from them in recompense? Link to evidence of your attempts to do this, please…

    You haven’t done any of these things, of course. Partly because of your near-total absence of anything even approaching a passing familiarity with a subject often referred to as “history,” but mostly because you’re not motivated by your feeble simulacrum of an “abstract moral argument;” you’re motivated by rabid, genocidal anti-White hatred. You just don’t have the balls to admit it.

    One more time — all races, peoples, cultures have expanded, colonized, invaded, settled. Yet you don’t care that non-White peoples have all done these things, and with much greater cruelty than Whites ever did. This simple fact is irrelevant to you, because your “argument” is simply a convoluted rationalization of your own senseless hatred and ignorance. Your feelz are your problem, not mine.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
    , @GammaRay
  359. @GammaRay

    Also I find it funny that you want to claim the law of the jungle with regards to the ubiquity of colonialism and how that precludes any kind of universal moral judgment being passed against it, yet in the same paragraph you suddenly want to talk about how everyone has the right to self defense.

    Remember when I pointed out your complete, pathetic inability to distinguish between normative and positive statements, and your automatic conflation of the two? This is Exhibit A for that. I suggest that you research the definitions of “normative” and “positive” in order to better understand what I meant. You’re welcome.

    • Replies: @GammaRay
  360. FKA Max says: • Website
    @Yan Shen

    We are having an in-depth discussion on intelligence distribution over in the other thread, that might interest you:

    I found another great paper:

    MAJOR GENES OF GENERAL INTELLIGENCE

    VOLKMAR WEISS

    Link: http://www.v-weiss.de/majgenes-full.html Archived Link: http://archive.is/blV7b

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/text-and-talk/#comment-2310490

    This is a recent comment from today, which was still in moderation last I checked:

    Even if we assume that intellectual (and emotional intelligence) is normally distributed, that does not mean, in my opinion, that there is an absolute correlation between the two (see Figure 1 below), meaning that not every intelligent person is also, automatically, emotionally intelligent. Overachievers likely score high on BOTH intellectual AND emotional intelligence, i.e. the 80/20 rule and power law distribution. This rule also applies to differences in achievement outcomes between racial/ethnic groups (see studies below, whites score higher than blacks and Asians on emotional intelligence tests).
    [...]
    Figure 1:

    [...]
    When the appointees excelled in experience and IQ but had low emotional intelligence, their failure rate was as high as 25%. However, those people with high emotional intelligence combined with at least one of the other two factors (experience or IQ) only failed in 3%-4% of the cases.
    [...]
    A cross-cultural investigation of trait emotional intelligence in Hong Kong and the UK
    Gokcen, et al. (2014)

    In addition, results showed pronounced cross-cultural variation in global trait EI scores, with British participants scoring consistently higher than their Chinese counterparts.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/text-and-talk/#comment-2317318

    That being said, your thesis that average Chinese IQ is lower than that of average African American IQ is so preposterous that it’s really not even worth responding to or contemplating.

    Exactly How ‘Black’ Is Black America?

    * According to Ancestry.com, the average African American is 65 percent sub-Saharan African, 29 percent European and 2 percent Native American.

    * According to 23andme.com, the average African American is 75 percent sub-Saharan African, 22 percent European and only 0.6 percent Native American.

    * According to Family Tree DNA.com, the average African American is 72.95 percent sub-Saharan African, 22.83 percent European and 1.7 percent Native American.

    * According to National Geographic’s Genographic Project, the average African American is 80 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European and 1 percent Native American.

    * According to AfricanDNA, in which I am a partner with Family Tree DNA, the average African American is 79 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European and 2 percent Native American.
    [...]
    Spencer Wells, director of National Geographic’s Genographic Project, explained to me that the African Americans they’ve tested range from 53 percent to 95 percent sub-Saharan African, 3 percent to 46 percent European and zero percent to 3 percent Native American. So there is a lot of genetic variation within our ethnic group, as is obvious to anyone even casually glancing at black people just walking down the street.

    https://www.theroot.com/exactly-how-black-is-black-america-1790895185

  361. GammaRay says:
    @James Forrestal

    You seem determined to demonstrate (yet again) your irrational conviction that mindless, vitriolic anti-White hatred and explosive, uncontrollable logorrhea can somehow make up for the complete, pathetic absence of anything resembling rational, empirically-based argumentation. Sad.

    strong projection

    It appears that you have mastered the basics of spelling and grammar, so it is unlikely that this seeming conviction is entirely honest — hence “disingenuous” (look it up). But assuming for the moment that your toxic stew of meaningless rhetoric and rabid hatred is actually meant to form some semblance of sincere argumentation, I’ll try to spell out (again) at a level that you might be capable of at least partially comprehending, why your pathetic, desperate insistence that I simply must accept your “White guilt” canard is completely meaningless.

    This has nothing to do with white guilt and everything to do with moral consistency. Its not my fault that you fail to understand this due to your white victimization lenses

    One more time: although your irrational, genocidal anti-White hatred seems to have left you with the cognitive equivalent of tunnel vision (or at least a very severe visual field defect), reality does exist beyond the constraints of your very limited conception of it. Your repeated regurgitation of the tired, worn-out “Evil Whitey is uniquely evil… because muh teevee and muh sociology professor told me so!” trope is simply not an argument. You seem to have difficulty comprehending this at any level of abstraction, so I’ll try to make it more concrete for you. You’re welcome.

    In my previous reply to you please show where I demonstrated this logic. Im pretty sure that my point has been consistently about criticizing the moral hypocrisy and self serving logic of the alt-right/white nationalists as opposed to making a broad criticism of white people themselves. Did I repeatedly make the argument that white people (not white nationalists or alt-righters, but WHITE PEOPLE in general) are uniquely evil? Im pretty sure I havent. My bone to pick is with alt-right/WN morons. That being said, if I have repeatedly made this specific argument that you accuse me of making then please specifically show where I made these arguments. I want you to provide precise quotations where I repeatedly made arguments to the effect that “evil whitey is uniquely evil”. I expect to see multiple quotations since you are accusing me of repeatedly making this argument.

    When was the last time that you insisted that Mongolia must accept millions of racially and culturally alien invaders, because of the depredations of Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, etc.? Have you ever insisted that the Bantu need to admit how “wrong” they were to displace the Khoisan and the pygmies, and that they somehow are obligated to make up for their crimes? When have you insisted that the Turks need to apologize for invading Anatolia, and that they need to somehow make up for this by accepting millions of racially alien invaders? Have you insisted that they, and the North Africans, need to bow down and apologize for enslaving millions of White Europeans? How about the Jews, and their responsibility for the millions who died under Bolshevism? What have you demanded from them in recompense? Link to evidence of your attempts to do this, please…

    I already answered this:

    If china, india or israel had colonized the entire world (in the process destroying countless cultures and indigenous peoples) just so that they could exploit the land for their own benefit then yes, I would not feel bad seeing these countries end up having to deal with the unexpected/unforeseen consequence of their immoral actions. That being said, I have never advocated open borders, rather I only made the neutral observation that the west is being unexpectedly haunted by its colonial past. I don’t think that anybody really debates the validity of this observation. Even you don’t debate it, that’s why you continue to tiptoe around it instead of taking that argument head on. Anyways, you seem to have this odd notion that I am only applying my logic to the west when really I hold everyone to these same standards. If any culture/civilization/etc decides to act in an immoral fashion and then ends up getting screwed over because of it later on, then they fully deserve what happens to them. I don’t care if they’re white, black, yellow etc etc.

    The west started the globalization project many centuries ago, and now it is succumbing to it. The west has no one to blame but itself for the current state of affairs. Its a misdirection for you to make the claim that I am advocating that western countries must take in millions of immigrants; I don’t recall saying that, although if I did say something to that effect then you are welcome to find where I said it and quote me on it. If I specifically said what you are accusing me of having said then I have no problem owning up to it. That being said, what I did say was this:

    That being said, I have never advocated open borders, rather I only made the neutral observation that the west is being unexpectedly haunted by its colonial past. I don’t think that anybody really debates the validity of this observation. Even you don’t debate it, that’s why you continue to tiptoe around it instead of taking that argument head on.

    Anyways you are trying to muddy the waters by throwing out arguments such as this instead of just directly addressing my original argument which is the incredible hypocrisy of the alt-right/WN when it comes to their attitudes regarding european colonialism and then the phenomena of mass immigration in the current age. I am not advocating that millions of immigrants move into the west, rather I am advocating that alt-right/WN take an appropriate and morally consistent stance towards the history of european colonization when they choose to criticize mass immigration policies. Big difference there buddy.

  362. GammaRay says:
    @James Forrestal

    Also I wanted to include this since I thought it was tangential. WN/alt-righters being proud about western global colonization and then complaining about mass immigration and globalization is roughly equivalent to a hypothetical situation where mongolians are being proud of genghis khan’s empire building actions* and then complaining about the fact that russia is now much bigger, stronger and numerous (population wise) than mongolia is.

    I’ll explain this analogy by providing a little bit of background. Back in the 13th century the mongolians invaded the non-united kievan rus people and as a reaction to this invasion, the Rus people eventually ended up unifying into the tsardom of russia and subsequently the russian empire. Without the mongolian invasion, the disparate rus tribes would have never combined into the russian people and henceforth the russian nation. Therefore, mongolia is actually a victim of its own past aggressive actions too. If russia wanted to now, it could completely crush mongolia, wipe them off the map and then colonize the place. Fortunately for them, it appears that russia is on good terms with mongolia. Furthermore, my impression is that most mongolians generally recognize that the current strength of russia is the direct result of the mongolian conquests and as such they don’t complain that its “unfair”. Alt-righters/WNs on the other hand seem to have a problem with comprehending cause and effect, as such they are proud of the history western colonization while simultaneously complaining about mass immigration/globalization, all the while being blissfully ignorant of the fact that it was european colonization of the entire world that brought globalization (and hence mass immigration) into existence in the first place. Make sense?

    *it wasn’t really colonization to the extent that europeans did it, it was more like occupation and tribute taking as opposed to broad genocidal and displacement policies

    You haven’t done any of these things, of course. Partly because of your near-total absence of anything even approaching a passing familiarity with a subject often referred to as “history,” but mostly because you’re not motivated by your feeble simulacrum of an “abstract moral argument;” you’re motivated by rabid, genocidal anti-White hatred. You just don’t have the balls to admit it.

    wrong. Doth protest too much. You don’t have much to fall back on besides angry invective and baseless (also easily disprovable) accusations

    One more time — all races, peoples, cultures have expanded, colonized, invaded, settled. Yet you don’t care that non-White peoples have all done these things, and with much greater cruelty than Whites ever did. This simple fact is irrelevant to you, because your “argument” is simply a convoluted rationalization of your own senseless hatred and ignorance. Your feelz are your problem, not mine.

    The fact that you still can’t comprehend the arguments being made is your problem, not mine. Just because all races, peoples, cultures have expanded, colonized, invaded, settled does not exempt them from having to deal with the unexpected fallout of their own past actions. This is not a moral observation but a practical one. Secondly, I hold everyone to the same standards; if you’re going to complain about mass immigration then you can’t simultaneously be proud of your own colonial past. You need to take a particular moral/ethical stance and be consistent with it instead of selectiving supporting it when its convenient and then abandoning it when its not. Also I already answered this question as well:

    The turks, north africans or jews were not the primary topic of discussion in this particular conversation; hence that is why nobody discusses their culpability or blame. If we were specifically discussing the turks, north africans or jews within that sort of context then I would have no problem objectively discussing their potential culpability. We are discussing the culpability of the west with regards to colonization because it is tangential, not because of any personal biases. That being said, I am personally biased against hypocrites, but this is a bias that transcends race and color lines.

    You only make the (false) accusation that I don’t care when other people do these things because you want to create a (false) narrative that I am singling out whites, while completely glossing over the fact that all of these other instances of other cultures practicing colonization were never being seriously discussed in the first. If we were specifically discussing the actions of other groups practicing colonization then I would have no problems objectively and impartially discussing culpability and blame.

  363. GammaRay says:
    @James Forrestal

    wrong. You were clearly attempting to make a normative statement when you were making the argument that everyone has a right to self defense. The normative/subjective angle of your statement that everyone has the right to self-defense was reinforced by your subsequent (erroneous) complaint that I was implying that every other race has the right to self defense except for whites. Its very clear that the thrust of your statement was a normative one, not a positive one. I included a quotation of your own words below:

    Again — all races/ peoples/ cultures expand/ settle / invade when they get the chance. This is an (obviously true) observation about the real world, not a moral judgment. I have no “moral obligation” to accept your pathetic attempts to push White guilt on me. I’m merely noting that you would never attempt to push Turk guilt on the Turks, or North African guilt on the descendants of the Barbary pirates, or Jew guilt on those responsible for the Bolshevik revolution Everyone has the right to self-defense. Of course, your rabid, unreasoning anti-White hatred leads you to convince yourself that somehow every other race does, but Whites do not.

    Anyways its very apparent that the only reason you predominately focus on dissecting my grammar and my understanding of lexical concepts is because you don’t really have any other forms of legitimate argumentation to fall back on. You obviously have problems dealing with the meat of my arguments themselves, this is why you prefer to argue about semantics instead.

  364. anon[199] • Disclaimer says:
    @TT

    You’re fired! We told you that your credibility would be shot if you tried to rev up to wild Chinese chauvinist rants. And now look what you’ve done to make sure people dismiss what you say as the words of a fool. You have the Rohingya being Bengalis brought in to Burma in the 1950s by the British (sic) to “colonize”. Absolute BS. And the silliest part of it is that the British left Burma in January 1948 five months after India became independent.

    This week’s remittance will be your last
    [Sgnd.] Ho Ho Ho Financial Secretary to the CPC SE Asia Propaganda Bureau

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