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A Troublesome Intelligence?
A Note to Richard Lynn, Charles Murray, James Thompson et al.
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“If a multiracial society is found where these race differences in intelligence are absent, the evolutionary and genetic theory of these differences would be falsified. Those who maintain that there are no genetic differences in intelligence between the races are urged to attempt this task.” – Richard Lynn. [Emphasis added]

Every truly scientific proposition offers some clear empirical conditions under which it would be falsified; otherwise, it would have to be shelved under the mystical field of unfalsifiable pseudoscience. For the racial genetic hypothesis (the proposition that test score differences between blacks and whites are in part rooted in racial genetic differences), Professor Richard Lynn provided this scientific veneer by challenging opponents to find a single society where blacks do not appear to be clearly less intelligent than whites on any societal metric of intelligence. He gave further reasoning for this bold universal condition:

If only environmental factors were responsible for the different IQs of different populations, we should expect to find some countries where Africans had higher IQs than Europeans. The failure to find a single country where this is the case points to the presence of a strong genetic factor.” Richard Lynn.

Well, it seems that God truly does have a sense of humor. It turns out that we did not need to look further than Richard Lynn’s own multiracial home of Britain to find the falsification that he proposed for the racial genetic hypothesis.

Although some hereditarians had already noticed some troubling signs (for their hypothesis) that the black African kids in the UK appeared to be at worst only about 8 IQ points below white children (instead of at least 20 to 30 points expected by racial IQ hereditarians), my humble contribution to the debate was to note that Africans were almost always lumped together into the ‘black African’ group when doing such comparisons. This concealed the real picture of how certain nationalities that were migrating from English-speaking African countries to the UK were actually already outperforming the British whites. On the face of it, it does not seem useful to lump English-exposed Nigerian or Ghanaian immigrant children, for example, with children of Somali refugees fleeing much worse humanitarian emergencies in Africa, especially without any prior exposure to the English language.

When broken down into different African nationalities, it becomes clear that even the relatively small 8 IQ point racial gap observed in favor of British whites does not exist. The Black-White performance gap is completely eradicated, and in fact appears somewhat reversed, when you just look at children from African countries that speak some English, i.e. immigrant children who did not face the hurdle of learning English for the first time in their lives when they enrolled in British schools. When I first published these findings in 2015, I thought this really settled the issue, at least on that point.

Murray Doesn’t Know This?

I was therefore surprised to recently notice on Twitter that Charles Murray, the author of the infamous ‘Bell Curve’ book, apparently does not know about this ‘troublesome’ performance of black African school children in the UK. In his tweet claiming confirmation of the traditional white-black gap in UK schools, he too makes the mistake of looking only at the combined “black” group, which not only lumps together all the different African nationalities, but even throws in the blacks from the Caribbeans, who have much lower scores than black Africans. Furthermore, he seems to be convinced that if we ever looked at mean test scores instead of things like “pass rates”, we would notice an even bigger gap between black and white children in favor of the latter, a gap that should theoretically be even bigger than the black-white test score gap in the US (since blacks in America, having more white genes in them, are said to have an IQ of 85 whereas the blacker people of sub-Saharan Africa have IQ 70).

Murray is obviously uninformed on the full picture of black performance in the UK, as I will make clear in this article.

I was even more shocked to see that after all my public debates with him, Murray’s friend, Professor James Thompson, also doesn’t seem to realize just how devastating this UK data is for their racial genetic hypothesis. Like Murray, he too believes that the African children do well only when you consider metrics like “pass rates” (or “improvement”) and not when you look at actual test scores. Thompson apparently still maintains his old claim that there is some sort of effort in the UK to try to make minority children appear like they are performing better than they do, by only presenting their “pass rates” or improvements and omitting their scores, especially in the harder subjects of Mathematics and English.

The reason I’m surprised to learn that Thompson still does not know that his claims have already been debunked by data is because I have previously pointed him to published sources that report actual mean test scores, not just pass rates. In his response to one of my articles pointing him to these test score sources, he simply insisted that test scores have never been published in the UK:

“To get a better understanding of the scholastic achievements of immigrant groups we need to get beyond the percentage pass rates and look at the actual figures, which as far as I know are not currently released. For example Deary et al. (2007) has a scoring system based on the grades, which is far better than just pass rates, but he did not have access to the raw scores, nor was able to publish anything on racial differences. This is great pity [sic], because it would give us much of the data we need, which could then be tracked year by year.” (James Thompson).

Since his words sound sincere, I will afford him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he just failed to locate this test score data in the massive paper that I asked him to check (I am not quick to accuse of intellectual dishonesty).

So, I will be kind enough to just cut out the relevant data from the source document and paste it here, so that no one will have an excuse going forward.

Steve Strand

The source of the published test scores is Professor Steve Strand of Oxford University, who was comparing the test scores of different groups of high school pupils in the UK by their first language spoken at home, because he believed that familiarity with the English language is a major explanatory factor in the underperformance of most late migrants to the UK. We can ignore his specific goal and just steal his rich data for our own debate: the scores do not exclude math and English scores, and indeed even publishes those math scores explicitly.

This gives us perhaps the largest and most detailed data set ever presented on settling this endless IQ debate. The famous Eyferth study of Germany that everyone on the environmental side of the debate keeps citing had only 181 children; this one has thousands of children taken from the entire school system of the UK. Besides that, it is a longitudinal study that tracked the performance of the same kids from early primary school, all the way to high school graduation; and yes, it lists actual test scores even at the early ages.

This first table I will paste here comes from page 47 of the report and it lists the mean test score of British Whites against other ethnicities. In this table the black Africans are divided into two groups, depending on whether or not they speak “English first” at home (EAL or EF). Notice that the British whites who speak English first (mean score 346.4) only outscore Black Africans who speak other languages first (339.8), but are outperformed by Black Africans who speak English first (356.2) — consisting mostly of those Africans who were born in the UK or arrived very young.

However, even these two groups of Black Africans (EAL and EF) have many nationalities lumped together. There are some who come from countries where they (and their parents) had much longer exposure to the English language (former colonies of Britain), while others have had no exposure to any English at all. So, what happens when you break down that group of EAL Black Africans who speak another language first? Those EAL students from English-speaking countries outperform the British whites by the time they do these high school tests, despite the initial disadvantage of coming from very low quality African schools.

Let’s take out those who come from English speaking countries and compare them with British whites in one simpler table:

Group Best 8 Mean Score Mean Pass Rate
White British 346.8 61.8
Shona (Zimbabwe) 347.9 63.0
Akan/Twi Fante (Ghana) 351.6 68.6
Igbo (Nigeria) 362.4 73.9
Yoruba (Nigeria) 365.0 76.2

Again, all of these African groups who outperform British whites already learned some English (as a second language) in their home countries before they migrated to the UK because they all come from former British colonies. The Shona from Zimbabwe score only slightly higher than the White British students, but Strand reveals on page 79 that a particularly high number of them arrived from Africa when they were above the age of 11 (32% of them!), which makes their performance even more astounding!

Strand’s tables also gives some scores in math and English. The Africans who were born in the UK outscore British whites on both math and English. Even more counter-intuitively, the blacks coming from Africa who speak English as a second language also outperform British whites, not only in maths, but even in English!

What About the Africans With Low Scores?

The African nationalities with lower than British white scores in this sample had no exposure to English in their home countries. Africans who speak Portuguese or French (or Lingala etc) at home in the UK do not come from English-speaking African countries and are therefore disadvantaged for a longer time in the school system, as Strand acknowledges.

Are These Just Wealthy African Immigrants?

For those who may be tempted to think that these could just be the children of wealthy Africans, Strand also reports that all the Black African groups, including those born in the UK who speak English first (EF), are actually much poorer than the average White British or Indians or Chinese:

All Black African language groups, including those with English as their first language, have much higher than average levels of socio-economic disadvantage.” – Strand

This makes their performance all the more troublesome for believers in the racial hypothesis, since both environmentalists and hereditarians agree that conditions of poverty do bring down test scores (they merely disagree on how much they do). What this means is that these African scores that are above the British white scores are actually still depressed by socioeconomic conditions!

Contrast this with the US where Arthur Jensen et al constantly reported that even children of wealthy black Americans (i.e., a 100 percent sample of educated, high-income blacks) produce children who score lower than poor whites. The hereditarian explanation for the poor performance of children of elite American blacks is that they regress toward a lower black (American) racial mean IQ of 85. So, shouldn’t we see even greater downward regression of these black African children (since they come from a population with an even lower IQ than that of black Americans)? Why do we see the exact opposite result?

Clearly, there’s just something that went wrong in the history of blacks in the U.S. and other such historical multiracial societies, which is what led the racial hereditarians to make their hasty genetic generalizations to blacks qua race.

A Bimodal Distribution?

To hedge against the possibility that my claims on UK performance is right, Thompson usually asserts that the African immigrants have a bimodal distribution in socioeconomic status, meaning there is a group that is well-educated (and have high income) and another group that is uneducated and poor. This is a bizarre argument because it says absolutely nothing in the context of the debate.

All you need to diffuse this argument is to recall that children of well-educated high income American blacks, without any poor uneducated blacks in the sample, is observed to still perform below the children of poor whites. The hereditarian explanation, as we’ve noted, is that they regress towards the black American mean IQ of 85. So, please explain how this sample of immigrants who have not just educated blacks but also many poor uneducated blacks (bimodal), and are supposed to regress towards IQ 70, not 85, happen to produce children who are at or above average white IQ? (Remember that this is true even when their parents were married while still living in Africa, which refutes the claim that they should regress toward a higher immigrant mean IQ.)

Their performance is the opposite of what your hypothesis predicts, whether they follow a normal or bimodal distribution.

Cochran

Thompson and Murray are not the only genetic racial hereditarians who cannot believe that this UK result is possible. Another popular believer in the genetic racial hypothesis of test score differences, Dr Gregory Cochran, expresses the same skepticism, as demonstrated by an exchange he had with presumably one of my readers:

Source: Gregory Cochran’s Westhunt blog.

Cochran is obviously wrong to doubt the basic premise of this claim: Black African groups can and do outperform British whites. However, he is right to doubt the attached explanations: that there is simply high immigrant self-selection or, even more ridiculous, that this high performance is just limited to the Igbos of Nigeria (as our tables above show, other groups from English-speaking African countries also achieve the same feat, and Igbos do not even always outperform the other Nigerian tribes, like the Yoruba).

Self-Selected Migration?

The assertion that these African migrants must be self-selected elites from the African continent remains the only argument that racial hereditarians can run to when all else fails.

However, this is an unsustainable solution for several reasons.

Firstly, our further research has shown that even the children of the poorest humanitarian refugees from Africa to America score higher than black Americans in school (even if they come from countries with an average IQ in the 60s), before they become fully assimilated. The idea that people who walk into a United Nations refugee camp are highly self-selected on intelligence, even more selected than people who qualify to an African university in the most developed African nation, is beyond absurd. Rushton and Jensen reported the general IQs of black South African university students:

“Black university students in South Africa also show relatively low mean test scores. Sixty-three undergraduates at the all-Black universities of Fort Hare, Zululand, the North, and the Medical University of South Africa had a full-scale IQ of 77 on the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale—Revised (Avenant, 1988, cited in Nell, 2000, pp. 26 –28). In a study at the University of Venda in South Africa’s Northern Province by Grieve and Viljoen (2000), 30 students in 4th-year law and commerce averaged a score of 37 out of 60 on the Standard Progressive Matrices, equivalent to an IQ of 78 on U.S. norms.”

The problem for the self-selection explanation is a simple mathematical conundrum: if the African immigrants to the UK consisted of 100 percent university graduates, their IQ would still be only in the higher 70s; that would still not explain how their children’s performance goes above the white IQ of 100. And yet we know that the number of university graduates among the Black African UK immigrant sample is definitely not 100 percent; it is not even half of that!

Secondly, these same racial hereditarians and HBD bloggers also constantly complain that the immigration policies of the West are ensuring that places like Africa are not “sending their best” in intelligence. And they have published peer-reviewed papers to support their claim. My interlocutor, Dr. James Thompson, has previously published a paper complaining that the average migrants sent from countries like Ghana to the UK have a large downward impact on the IQ of the host country. And yet the children of the same Ghanaians outperform average British white children.

To continue believing in the racial genetic hypothesis, Thompson would have to throw his own research under the bus, and embrace the position that the Western immigration system that has a majority coming through refugee resettlement programs, random lotteries, chain migrations etc, is somehow still selecting highly for cognitive ability — even more than if you just exclusively admitted university graduates. In short, the normally right-wing leaning racial hereditarians would have to abandon their position on immigrant IQ and move to the left of open border liberals — just to maintain commitment to a highly specious hypothesis!

Mixed Race Scores

Finally, another fatal observation for the self-selected claim and the racial genetic hypothesis in general is the mean score of mixed race children in the UK (from black African and white parents).

The mixed race test is another condition that hereditarians acknowledge would falsify their model if it failed to go as predicted.

Source: Turok of the North (2017). Gregory Cochran’s West Hunter Blog.

What you see here is the exact opposite of what their models predict: if anything the results are more consistent with a genetic gap in the opposite direction (we will not even use the higher scoring tribes from former African British colonies in this case, but will restrict ourselves to the lower-scoring group of all African nationalities, as long as they speak English first at home):

English First Group Score
Mixed Black African and White 349
Black African 356
White British 346.8

This result also deals a blow to the self-selected-migrant claim since the mixed race children should still score above the African group even if the latter are self-selected. It is difficult to see how addition of white genes into this immigrant population would lower the IQ of their (mixed) offspring under the hereditarian racial genetic hypothesis.

The author, originally from Zambia, was a Visiting Scholar to the Hoover Institution and a John S. Knight Fellow at Stanford University. He can be reached at [email protected]

 
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  1. We wuz kangz: the IQ post

    • LOL: eah
    • Replies: @Nick
  2. Good news if it’s true.

    But I wouldn’t bet the farm on your being able to load these kids up, take them back to their country of origin and use their intelligence and talent to successfully turn the African continent into a political, economic and cultural juggernaut.

    Still, if you believe in what you say, you should try. Don’t prove your case by arguing with us, Just Do It!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @crimson2
  3. If this research holds up, then the pure-hereditarians will need to hoist the white flag.

    I am tempted – yea, sorely – to grab at this piece of research and wave it about everywhere, like a Neo-Nazi who thinks he’s holding the original Blutfahne.

    However I am also cynical by nature, having read nutritional, medical, psych and pharma literature since the 1980s, and seeing much of it exposed as the product of poor (or even flagrantly corrupt) methods.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @szopen
  4. It takes inborn will to learn.

  5. trelane says:

    The thing about black people is that they appear to be the product of natural selection in the environment of evolutionary adaptation.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @RaceRealist88
  6. Anon[121] • Disclaimer says:

    Then, good god, leave us alone and go back to Ghana and make it Wakanda. The world awaits!

    • Replies: @padre
    , @Wally
  7. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:

    This is great news! Now we can remove all affirmative action preferences for Africans and give them to native whites in the UK, who clearly need it now with their lower IQ.

    • Replies: @Jm8
  8. Dan Hayes says:

    Chanda Chisala:
    How do these results stand if the IQ tests are culture-neutral in that the tests’ language dependence are either obliterated or diminished?

  9. There’s a noticeable absence of any actual IQ test results supporting the claim.

  10. Intellectual capacity is much more malleable in children in adults. This is well known in the IQ literature, including studies on African and Euro Americans. When Dickens and Flynn (2006) analyzed the results of the 2002 standardization sample for the WISC (Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children), they found that IQ starts off high in African American children and then declines with age:

    African-American WISC scores
    Age — IQ
    4 — 95.5
    12 — 90.5
    15 — 88.8
    24 — 84.5

    Dickens and Flynn (2006) similarly note that these scores show a gain of 5-6 points over the scores of black children thirty years earlier. But the decline of black IQ with age has remained stable. This decline also shows up in the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study —a longitudinal study of black, biracial (black/white), and white children adopted into white middle-class Minnesota families (Scarr and Weinberg, 1976; Weinberg, Scarr, and Waldman, 1992). The children’s IQs were measured at 7 years of age and again ten years later:

    ——————- Age 7 Age 17
    Black children –—- 97 — 89
    Biracial children – 109 — 99
    White children –– 112 – 106

    Finally, we see this age effect in a study of children fathered by soldiers stationed in Germany and then raised by German mothers (Eyferth 1961). One third of the children were between 5 and 10 years old and two thirds between 10 and 13 years old. The study found no significant difference in IQ between children with white fathers (83 subjects) and those with black fathers (98 subjects), the mean IQ being about 97 for both groups.

    So Chanda has discovered what many IQ researchers have long known: if you place children in an enriched learning environment, they will do much better on IQ tests. Unfortunately, this improvement will not last. It will “wash out” and disappear by adulthood. This was pointed out by Franz Boas (yes, the same Franz Boas!) in a speech delivered in 1894 under the title “Human Faculty as Determined by Race”:

    “When we compare the capacity for education between the lower and higher races, we find that the great point of divergence is at adolescence and the inference is fairly good that we shall not find in the brains of the lower races the post-pubertal growth in the cortex to which I have just alluded.” (Boas, 1974, p. 234)

    Among humans in general, intellectual capacity seems to decline with age. Indeed, there are statements in the literature that IQ declines from one’s twenties onwards (presumably among European Americans). Is this decline due to natural aging processes? Or is it prewired into the human organism?

    Perhaps the ability to acquire new information became less useful with age in ancestral humans. What we call ‘intelligence’ may have originally been an infant trait that humans lost as they grew up. With the expansion of our cultural environment, natural selection would have progressively extended this infant trait into older age groups, and more so in some populations than in others.

    By way of analogy, lactose tolerance was originally an infant trait and is still so in most human populations. It has become an adult trait in those populations that have long practiced dairy farming and adult consumption of milk.

    References

    Boas, F. (1974). A Franz Boas Reader. The Shaping of American Anthropology, 1883-1911, G.W. Stocking Jr. (ed.), Chicago: The University of Chicago Press.

    Dickens, W.T., and J.R. Flynn. (2006). Black Americans reduce the racial IQ gap. Evidence from standardization samples. Psychological Science, 17, 913-920.

    Eyferth, K. (1961). Leistungen verscheidener Gruppen von Besatzungskindern in Hamburg-Wechsler Intelligenztest für Kinder (HAWIK). Archiv für die gesamte Psychologie, 113, 222-241.

    Scarr, S., and Weinberg, R.A. (1976). IQ test performance of Black children adopted by White families, American Psychologist, 31, 726-739.

    Weinberg, R.A., Scar, S., and Waldman, I.D. (1992). The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study: A follow-up of IQ test performance at adolescence. Intelligence, 16, 117-135.

  11. szopen says:

    INteresting.

    But few questions: Who are white British and white Irish who do not speak English at home, and yet have much better scores than both white British and white Irish who speak English at home? Especially with White Irish the difference is quite shockingly large…

  12. Bruno says:

    A test where Irish have higher scores than English and women than men is the factual basis of your « reasoning « . That’s telling everything sadly ….

  13. Liza says:

    Fixation on IQ by anti-multiculturalists has always been a big mistake (a pet peeve of mine).

    Whether IQ of nonwhites living in the countries built by us from the ground up is higher, lower or the same as white people does not matter. They will never be like us and we will never be remotely like them. The problems of multicultural societies are not due to differences in this one particular, relatively unimportant, measure of intelligence.

    And while I’m here, Chanda – why are you trying so hard to be like us when after all is said and done you have no use for us? I know a couple of white-hating Negroes who puff their chests with pride when telling me that such and such a black man (or woman) has achieved something that has always been very much a white activity. Whatever for, I wonder: if you are contemptuous of someone, you try to find things that are different between you & them.

  14. Anon[135] • Disclaimer says:

    Clearly, the lack of testing and publicly released data is an indication that the powers that be believe, perhaps incorrectly, that blacks score lower. This whole question could be solved in a year if IQ testing and data release were not taboo. “Somebody somewhere released a little data” is not a response to why doing so remains rare and taboo.

  15. The practice of pseudoscience that reinforces preconceived racist stereotypes will continue to receive acceptance and elevation to the status of “real” science in order to continue lending credence to current and dominant narratives on the intrinsic inferiority of Black folks. Could real scientific investigations on genocidal tendencies of White Caucasians on scales and magnitudes unprecedented in human history be also on the cards? And conducted by credible scientists of all races? Could such behaviors be expressions of traits encoded in the Caucasian DNA to a greater extent than in other ethnic groups? To be sure, empirical evidence — past and present — to test such hypotheses should not be in short supply. The real challenge might lie in crafting an aptly worded testable hypothesis.

  16. Again, without any discussion the nebulous concept intelligence is translated into IQ.
    IQ has a cultural component.
    In my opinion IQ is not without meaning, it says something about fitting into western society.
    Writing this I’m remembering Thesingers travels through the Arabian peninsula.
    What IQ his Arabian guides had, no idea, the idea that stupid people could travel through these arid regions without dying seems a stupid a idea to me.
    Wilfred Thesiger, ‘Arabian Sands’, London, 1959, 1984
    Also interesting is
    Lynn White Jr., ‘Medieval Technology and Social Change’, Oxford 1962
    the writer discusses why inventions sometimes, or often, were not used for a long time.
    He explains ‘an invention is like opening a door to a room that was closed, nobody is forced to enter that room’.
    Examples are the stirrup, steam power and gun powder, I should write powder without gun, because for a very long time this powder was known, but the military use was not seen, or nobody was interested in.
    Were those that did not use this powder for guns stupid ?
    I really do not know.

    • Replies: @Silva
    , @Anon
    , @MarkinLA
  17. Black Africans were unable to invent the wheel, but White Europeans, across a huge swath of territory encompassing Poland, Slovenia, and the east and west shores of the Black Sea and probably a much wider area, no later than 3500BC were using four wheeled wagons for transport, and with architectural remains suggesting White European wheeled wagon use no later than 5000BC, are supposedly “outperformed” in intelligence tests by Black Africans.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Wizard of Oz
  18. Miggle says:

    Humans originated in Africa but at some point migrated out of the continent, some into Europe. Perhaps fewer travelled the vast distance to the east coast of Asia.

    Those who entered Europe found some strange-looking bipedal creatures there. Their skins were not black, like the skins of humans. Rather, these creatures had white skins!

    And they had bigger skulls than humans, these “neanderthals”, as we call them today, bigger skulls needed for their bigger brains. Still, some were quite friendly, and allowed humans to share their caves on the frightfully cold nights that were common on that chilly northern continent where even water sometimes became hard!

    So, there are mongrels today in Europe who have inherited the white skin. In that climate the humans died out, only the white-skinned mongrels survived, and thanks to the large brains of our ancestors we mongrels still have higher intelligence than humans.

    That this article was written by a human only proves that some individual humans are of high intelligence, possibly higher than some of us mongrels.

    • Replies: @WolfHere
  19. ”What this means is that these African scores that are above the British white scores are actually still depressed by socioeconomic conditions!”

    Or it shows that socioeconomic conditions in traits such as intelligence are largely bull. With the first generation of migrants from Africa coming from an elite background as these are the only people that could have afforded the journey in the first place. the first generation migrants usually have worse socioeconomic metrics, especially if the economy you come from is shit. unlike for example the Chinese that bring a lot of money with them.

  20. One glaring issue in this article is the use of test score as a replacement for IQ. What needs to be understood is the low IQ threshold for GCSE’s or equivalent qualifications means that it is possible for a greater proportion of the population of any race to achieve highly at such a low academic level. Once you start moving up the academic ladder and examine the racial demographic of undergraduate students, it will be found, due to the higher IQ threshold or elimination thereof, that intellectually inferior races such as blacks will have begun to be filtered out into disciplines in the social sciences, arts etc. As these disciplines do not have a requirement for high IQ as the STEM subjects do, and a reduction in the number of black students at this level will also be seen. When you progress even further to postgraduate students this trend will manifest exponentially. This is why an ivestigation or data pertaining to IQ scores is far more reliable than the given test scores.

    It can be explained through cultural factors the reason why Africans are scoring higher than British Whites on these low level tests. With hard work it is possible for a low IQ individual to achieve similarly at this level to an average or higher IQ individual. An African immigrating to the UK from poverty will be compelled by their parents to strive for academic success which can be attained at GCSE level at a similar or even higher level than that of higher intelligence races. Whereas the British whites feel that GCSE’s are a means to an end and are not of severe importance, hence resulting in lower average scores than those of harder working Africans. This creates a representation of student achievement largely influenced by social or cultural factors rather than intelligence.

    For these reasons, Secondary School test scores are not an adequate replacement for decades of intelligence research and IQ which show that intelligence is chiefly determined by genetics.

  21. Bruno says:

    The data you base your argument on, have Irish being more intelligent than English and women scoring above men. That is’enough said ! Worse than the scrabble nonsense. It’s sad because I would be happy if there were a wakanda …

    • Replies: @Epigon
  22. gate666 says:

    great article but i doubt you are going to change the opinion of the altright.

  23. Check back in 1-2 generations when these African immigrants have a disproportionate % of children raise in the welfare state. Their test scores will plummet while their crime rates skyrocket. And the least intelligent of those 2nd and 3rd generation Africans will be the ones having the most children.

    The new arrivals are raised with the immigrant work ethic. The 2nd and 3rd generations will grow up entitled, aggressive, and resentful that they are Africans living in a white country.

    Just look at African Americans, or the sky high crime rates of England’s black 2nd and 3rd generation teens and young adults.

    IQ is only one factor of why widespread invasion of Africans, or any outsiders really, should be discouraged or flat out aggressively opposed.

    And if Sub-Saharan Africans were so smart, they would figure out how to use condoms, and calculate how many children they can reasonably have before those surplus children are forced to invade the societies of responsible family planners.

  24. Phille says:

    I think it is great that you take the hereditarians to task, but you are also strawmanning pretty hard.

    Nobody believes that the average genetic IQ of Subsaharan Africans is 70. Realistically, it would be somewhere between 80 and 90. You get 80 if you assume that African Americans have maxed out on their genetic IQ and white admixture raised their genetic IQ somewhat. You get something higher than that, if you assume that there is still an environmental component to the US gap.

    Nobody believes this average genetic IQ is the same for each ethnic group. Even within Europe you find mean IQs between 88 and 104. And Europe is much more genetically homogeneous than Africa. It would not be a problem for the hereditarian position if there are Subsaharan African groups with IQs in the high 90s. Then you need very little selection to have overperforming immigrant groups.

  25. I live in Barcelona, Spain, a city with a large number of first, second and third generation immigrants from all over Spain and certain other parts of the world. The locals speak their own language, Catalan, and Spanish as well. They grow up bilingual – with both languages taught at school-, which helps them to perform well at school. On average, Catalan school schildren’s test scores are among the highest in the country. Immigrants, those who were not born here, speak Catalan in much lower numbers. If we break this down to where they came from – and I don’t use any official statistics, just my personal observations over the 13 years I have been living here – we see that the Spanish often speak and also use Catalan if they feel at home here and usually do not when they are infected with the negative attitude towards anything Catalan which unfortunately is the norm in large parts of Spain. Moving on to the foreigners, South-Americans very seldom speak Catalan. They are native Spanish speakers and often don’t feel the need to learn another language as they can already make themselves understood everywhere they go. Most speakers of other languages choose to learn Spanish first, as this is a tongue spoken by up to a half billion people around the world and therefore of much greater use than a local language mastered by a mere ten million. In fact, very few of this last group speak Catalan, though they usually do understand it. Now if we take a closer look at this group, which consists mainly of Eastern Europeans, Pakistani, Moroccans, Sub-Saharan Africans and EU members, we can see clear differences. Simply put, Russians and Sub-Saharan Africans speak Catalan in much higher numbers than other foreigners. Not pretending that my claims are in any way scientific, I would say that the Russian school system is vastly superior to the European, perhaps at a level Europeans were used to before the organised dumbing down of their education which started in the 1960s, making them much better trained to acquire new knowledge. As regards the Africans, I guess most of them grew up bilingual – French or English plus the language of their tribe or region – so they have already passed the hardest step in becoming multilingual, which is learning a second language. Once your brain has got used to switching between two languages, it becomes easier to learn a third and a fourth and use them intermittently. Personally, I have no difficulty using my native tongue and English and Spanish, though I find it hard to get with Catalan beyond the level of my high school German and French. I guess I was too old when I moved here, as the ability to learn new languages slowly degrades with age. What I want to say is that in my communications with people from very different backgrounds I have found no reason to assume black Africans have lower intelligence or learning abilities and I would like to express my belief that this discussion about race-based intelligence differences is useless and also shameful. It seems to me that socio-economic background is of much greater influence.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
    , @Blizzard
  26. Phille says:

    It is pretty obvious that there are Indian jatis with a higher mean IQ than is typical for European ethnic groups. How do we know this? Tail effects. We can look at the tech CEOs in the US right now, we can look at famous physicists, we know about geniuses like Ramanujan or Mir Sultan Khan.

    Bad environmental conditions don’t uniformly suppress IQ, so even among people living under bad conditions, there will be the occasional genius, if the average genetic IQ is high enough. But for Subsaharan Africans there seems to be a very pronounced absence of these kind of geniuses.

    This is one reason why it is unlikely that the kids outperforming natives in the UK are representative of their ethnic groups. Of course their scholastic performance is still good news. But I think the data you present isn’t strong enough to change the big picture.

    • Replies: @Anon
  27. iffen says:

    I wonder why these African groups have to come to the UK to get these scores. Why can’t they get these scores in Africa?

  28. JaymanFan says:

    “Secondly, these same racial hereditarians and HBD bloggers also constantly complain that the immigration policies of the West are ensuring that places like Africa are not“sending their best” in intelligence. And they have published peer-reviewed papers to support their claim. My interlocutor, Dr. James Thompson, has previously published a paper complaining that the average migrants sent from countries like Ghana to the UK have a large downward impact on the IQ of the host country. And yet the children of the same Ghanaians outperform average British white children.”

    The HBDers are definitely wrong about this, there is quite a significant barrier for Africans who are not refugees to enter the UK, having to pass a cultural test and having to prove you have a certain amount of money, people underestimate how hard it is to migrate to the UK, we certainly do not admit people on lotteries

    The selection barriers do not have to be particularly strong to explain the GCSE results. If African mean IQ is 85 (African American IQ is that) then immigrants just have to come from the smarter half to explain the result, not particularly impossible (and I would hope that is the case or something is seriously wrong with British immigration policy).

    It is also worth noting that UK Africans still under perform at the higher levels of achievement e.g. A level and degree level (Link 1) (Link 2), suggesting that we overwhelmingly select from the higher end of their bell curve 100-120 IQ – though there is not much of them beyond that point (120+) to select from.

    1: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/a-levels/students-aged-16-to-18-achieving-3-a-grades-or-better-at-a-level/latest

    2: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/09/06/universities-must-give-top-degrees-black-students-new-proposals/

  29. Adrian E. says:

    I think that it is plausible that hereditarians often underestimate the influence of environmental factors. Probably, the environmental conditions for black people living in Europe are in some respects better than for black people living in South Africa or the United States (less crime, less incarceration, more intact families, better nutrition etc.) – while the matter is hardly settled, I think there are good hypotheses for relevant environmental differences that should be further investigated.

    On the other hand, I don’t think it is fair to dismiss the idea that selective migration has a big impact on the results of IQ tests and school scores. This should be rather uncontroversal in the case of people who immigrated on the basis of work visa. In Europe, there are generally no lotteries, for someone from sub-Sahara Africa to receive work and educational visas, which is quite difficult, exceptional achievements are required, which means that people from this group of migrants mostly belong to an elite (and I think it is a misrepresentation of the idea of reversion to the mean to think the IQ of their children should revert to the general African mean, many of these elite immigrants are probably from African sub-groups with higher intelligence). That their elite status is not reflected strongly in economic data should not be surprising, either – they start from zero, and even if they speak the language of the European country to which they migrated well, there are usually some initial difficulties with integration, so that it should be expected that their wealth is on average below the wealth of the indigenous European population with the same level of abilities.

    The article hardly disputes this, but refugees are mentioned as the big counterexample. However, I don’t think that selective migration can generally be excluded in the case of refugees.

    There are different categories of refugees. The core group, the people for which the asylum system was originally intended and the ones who receive the right of asylum most easily, are people are individually persecuted because of their political views, people like opposition leaders and journalists. It seems plausible that many of them also belong to a kind of intellectual elite.

    Then, there are refugees who are not individually persecuted, but because they belong to a certain ethnic or religious group. They should be closer to a normal cross-section of the population (of that ethnic or religious group – of course, one could speculate whether high-IQ groups are more or less likely to be persecuted). But it also seems plausible that there is usually a mixture – some people flee just because they belong to a persecuted group, while in some areas opposition leaders and journalists are still more likely to be among those who flee than the average of the population, and the result is a mix with some people who can be assumed to be representatives of the average population of the persecuted group, but with people with above-average intellectual capabilities still overrepresented.

    A third group are economic migrants who have no chance of getting work visas (they are less of an elite group) and often attempt to enter Europe via the asylum system, even though they have little chances (but often, they cannot be sent back and can still remain in Europe). There are many investigations that show that economic migrants from sub-Saharan Africa are not from the poorest population groups, but rather from the middle class – travelling to Europe and paying human trafickers is expensive, poor Africans generally cannot afford that. The selection in this case is probably that they are a) from families who are richer than average, b) that they are more ready to take risks than others from the African middle class.

    So, I think that even in the case of refugees, the idea of selective migration is not so unplausible.

    The article argues against this in two ways. One is that it should not be plausible that this factor of selective migration is so strong that the children of African immigrants in Britain end up having much higher IQs than South African university students. I think this is only a counterargument against very strong version of hereditarianism – it can be expected that the environmental conditions are better in Britain than in South Africa in many ways, and it is far from clear that the results would not be similar if, instead of the current rules for migrations, the condition for African migrants would be that they qualified for studying at a university (of course, in many African countries, there are other things apart from intellectual abilities that determine whether someone can study at a university, so it is not even clear if that would be a particularly strong kind of selective immigration).

    The other argument is that if it is recognized that in the case of refugees there is also a kind of selective migration, hereditarians should change their political views about migration of asylum policies. I also think that this is true only as far as very strict anti-migration and anti-asylum policy preferences would, indeed, not be compatible with that hypothesis. But it does not follow that they should adopt open-borders ideas. A plausible explanation of the situation would be that children of sub-Saharan Africans in Britain have relatively good results just because immigration from sub-Saharan Africa to Britain is relatively restricted and difficult – especially if someone believes that selective migration is an important part of the explanation, the expected result would be that the score of black children tend to go down the more relaxed immigration rules are. Britain is hardly one of the countries with the most liberal immigration rules for people from Africa. If someone would want to argue that more liberal immigration rules lead to more high-IQ immigration, one could, for instance, compare Africans in Britain with Africans in Sweden, where until recently, the immigration rules were, indeed, more relaxed than in Britain. My prediction would be that the scores of black people in Britain would be higher than the ones of black people in Sweden (because immigration to Britain was more restricted and therefore more selective), but I don’t know about research on precisely that topic – I think it would be interesting if such research was available.

  30. WolfHere says:

    “When broken down into different African nationalities, it becomes clear that even the relatively small 8 IQ point racial gap observed in favor of British whites does not exist.”

    This is false claim as a result of comparing apples and pears. Either both sides are average on total racial level or neither. If author wanted to go with this then result of British white pupils should have been broken down into different nationalities according to origin. I’m sure gap between best white and best African nationality would remain the same as average. Obviously author is biased and took only calculated figures which favorers his/her assumption.

  31. WolfHere says:
    @Miggle

    “Humans originated in Africa …”

    Please read more. Even orthodox evolutionists don’t believe in that claim anymore. There are numerous findings across Europe and specially Asia which disprove it. Obviously origin of human was more diverse than previously thought.

  32. I look forward to Charles Murray, Greg Cochran and James Thompson commenting on this. Meantime I hope It is substantially correct as the world doesn’t need a lot more dim people.

    That the UK white population has been breeding dysgenically for close to 150 years seems clear (though it is only a recent UR article has made me see that reduction in infant mortality may have been dysgenic). It is equally clear that the Flynn Effect is a long way behind the West’s experience of it in Africa.

  33. Silva says:
    @jilles dykstra

    “What IQ his Arabian guides had, no idea, the idea that stupid people could travel through these arid regions without dying seems a stupid a idea to me.”

    Disagree. I try to take into account how long they took to learn that (I think all of them spent a long time working under more experienced others), and what else they know other than their main activity (not much?). A physician said there’s no single idea in medicine that by itself requires a very smart person to understand – a more mediocre person could learn everything in an immense amount of time.

  34. @Peter Frost

    “Indeed, there are statements in the literature that IQ declines from one’s twenties onwards”

    Anecdotally, autobiographically speaking, this seems true. But as an oldish man I know much more about the world than I did as a 27 year old, so that evens things up a bit.

    A person learns about the world by making mistakes and they make mistakes through undertaking projects and adventures. Undertaking projects and adventures they grow stronger but also do harm to themselves. They wear and beat themselves down and expose themselves to environmental assault.

    So, if you survive, you’re battle scarred, weary, with torn joints, a broken tooth or two, a list to one side and a permanent leer on your face from squinting to favor your one good eye. Most important of all, it’s harder to buffalo an old timer. They may not know everything, but they know enough to know when the guy talking at them knows less than they do.

    • Replies: @RodW
  35. @ThreeCranes

    Yes we should all celebrate if he hasn’t missed something big.

  36. @Dan Hayes

    I have often wondered how reliable the testing is though the Flynn Effect may explain much.

  37. Silva says:
    @AskNotWhatWhiteyCanDoForYou

    “And the least intelligent of those 2nd and 3rd generation Africans will be the ones having the most children.” – that’s probably going to happen even if Chanda’s right. And that’s the problem everyone on Earth has currently, and its solution, should it ever happen, might mean the solution of everything else.

  38. Anonymous[912] • Disclaimer says:

    Where was Rushton’s 70 iq studies done? Only in S.A? I’m willing to believe that it is too general to lump all of sub Sahara into one big group, as you have said, even if African immigrants consisted of 100% of college graduates; their mean I should only be high 70`s, yet they are not. I have always been skeptical of the 70 iq argument for all of Africa.

    However this all seems circular. You are trying to prove that racial disparity in intelligence is a myth by presenting evidence of black superiority over whites? Assume the data is correct and these are not highly selected immigrants, then one has to conclude that the combined Igbo and Yoruba population of 70 million are smarter that UK whites. See that is the problem with proving parity, parity is too precise. There are many ways for there not to be parity but only one way for their to be parity.

    Trying to prove whites are not smarter than blacks, you end up with data that supports blacks are smarter than whites, which would debunk the first claim, but now you still have one racial group smarter than the other, which I suspect isnt what you are trying to find or are you?

  39. @Justsaying

    “Could real scientific investigations on genocidal tendencies of White Caucasians on scales and magnitudes unprecedented in human history be also on the cards?”

    Steven Pinker did just that. And you’ve got it one hundred eighty degrees backwards. White European civilization is far, far less homicidal than African or New Guinean etc.

    Once again, you can’t draw correct inferences if you begin with unsubstantiated data. Gather your facts first, then look for patterns and draw conclusions. Reasoning as you do, from a prejudiced, racially biased, anger-fueled sense of resentment taints everything you say. It’s just this kind of unreason that discredits blacks (and/or their spokesmen) as scholars.

    • Replies: @Justsaying
  40. @Peter Frost

    Many at least of the author’s figures relate to adolescents so the decline with age argument isn’t very compelling – or have I missed something?

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
  41. @Peter Frost

    “Finally, we see this age effect in a study of children fathered by soldiers stationed in Germany and then raised by German mothers (Eyferth 1961). One third of the children were between 5 and 10 years old and two thirds between 10 and 13 years old. The study found no significant difference in IQ between children with white fathers (83 subjects) and those with black fathers (98 subjects), the mean IQ being about 97 for both groups”

    The army is selective as far as IQ is concerned. I think that the Army IQ cutoff is about IQ = 80 or so.
    According to that about 40% of American blacks would not qualify for the Army.

  42. Chanda Chisala will be pleased to hear about a 2014 newspaper report that ‘working-class white British children are lagging dramatically behind at school and now perform worse than any other group.’

    But before he starts celebrating, he should reflect on the reasons given for the white children’s poor performance:

    ● White working class children are being ‘marginalised’ at school after being forced to follow a multicultural timetable that shuns British traditions
    ● Large numbers of schools follow a curriculum that celebrates a ‘diverse range of pupils’ while sidelining those from poor British families
    ● White British pupils from deprived homes often ‘cannot see themselves or their lives reflected in the curriculum’, turning them off school altogether

    • Replies: @Silva
    , @Peasant
  43. I’m guessing that Chanda’s Africans are probably from the high achieving nation of Wakanda. They certainly are not from the Congo. The people of the Congo need a supply of Vibranium so that they can create the same level of civilization.

  44. Edward says:

    Thank you for writing this up, Mr. Chisala. I am surprised that you did not note what I had pointed out to you on Twitter, namely that when you break down other groups (such as Whites, Indians and East Asians) into sub-groups (just as you have done for Black Africans and indeed Nigerians), then the available evidence demonstrates that the best performing Black African sub-groups (Igbo and Yoruba) still perform worse than the best performing non-African sub-groups.

    For example, while 73.5% of Igbos and 70.8% of Yorubas attain 5 A*-C grades (including English and Maths) at GCSE, they are outperformed by Indians who speak Marathi (89.5%), Telugu (88.9%), Sinhala (80.3%) and Hindi (75.6%). They are also outperformed by Japanese speakers (85.4%), Danish speakers (78.3%) and Hebrew speakers (74.6%).

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316747964_Language_Diversity_and_Attainment_in_Secondary_Schools_in_England

    So, please explain how this sample of immigrants who have not just educated blacks but also many poor uneducated blacks (bimodal), and are supposed to regress towards IQ 70

    This is just false. The best estimates from Rindermann suggest that the average sub-Saharan African IQ is around 75. The genetic IQ is likely to be ~10 points higher than this.

    The sub-Saharan Africans who do migrate will disproportionately be those who were not malnourished or in extreme poverty, meaning that their phenotypic IQs will be above-average within sub-Saharan Africa (and thus closer to the genotypic IQ). Moroever, they may get a further boost once they migrate, bringing them even closer to the genotypic IQ.

    Of course, the sub-Saharan Africans who want to migrate will be self-selected, and since at least the 1970s there have been strong selection processes put in place by the UK Government. Given that CAT scores suggest that the Black African IQ in the UK (excluding the verbal component as that does seem to be culturally biased for recent immigrants) is around 94, it’s not a stretch at all to suggest that sub-Saharan Africans who migrate to the UK have an average IQ that is around 10 points higher than the average genotypic IQ of sub-Saharan Africa. That’s less than 2/3 of a standard deviation.

    So don’t dismiss this with the term “super-selection”. This is not super-selection.

    Now, as Gregory Clark and others have shown, strong assortative mating also occurs across countries and cultures, and social status runs in families for many, many generations.

    The racial mean is only a proxy for the family mean, so children and grandchildren of Black Africans will regress to their family mean (and the average of the family means among Black Africans in the UK may be aronud 94).

    And remember, as JayMan and Gregory Cochran have pointed out, the “luck” only disappears once as per the breeder’s equation. Thus, as per Clark, regression to the mean happens very, very slowly. Families are the most important population group.

    Data on GCSE attainment of Black Africans and their sub-groups

    It is interesting that Black Africans as a whole, despite being at a 6-point IQ disadvantage, attain 5 A*-C grades (including English and Maths), and at least a C grade in English and Maths, at similar to White British students. Their average ‘best 8′ scores are also similar.

    This is not the case for Black Caribbeans (also at a 6-point IQ disadvantage) who score well below the White British average on all metrics, as your first table notes.

    Deary (2007) found that the g factor explains 53.7% of the variance in ‘Best 8′ GCSE scores. This leaves some of the variance unexplained, and it is not uncommon to see people and groups overperform and underperform relative to their g.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289606000171

    Robert Plomin and colleagues have also found that, unlike for g even at age 16, the shared environment explains a substantial proportion (30-35%) of the variance in GCSE results, and a better work ethic and culture among Black African communities relative to working-class Whites may be part of the explanation.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3859476/

    Furthermore, not all of the genes which influence GCSE attainment involve genetic influence on intelligence. As this paper published in PNAS notes: “other broad domains of behavior such as personality and psychopathology also account for genetic influence on GCSE scores beyond that predicted by intelligence.” Black African immigrants are going to disproportionately have the very personality traits that are going to allow for success at GCSE.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/111/42/15273

    And why do I say working-class Whites? Well, we know that working-class Whites in Britain are the worst performers at GCSE, scoring below all ethnic minorities in comparable socioeconomic conditions. 34% of White British pupils who receive free school meals achieve 5 A*-C grades at GCSE, compared with 67% of White pupils who aren’t on free school meals. By contrast, 53% of Black Africans on free school meals achieve the same standard, which is not much lower than the 66% of Black Africans not on free school meals who achieve the standard.

    https://www.suttontrust.com/newsarchive/white-working-class-boys-have-lowest-gcse-grades-as-disadvantaged-bangladeshi-african-and-chinese-pupils-show-dramatically-improved-results/

    By contrast, at the top end of the scale, Black Africans still underperform. Only 5% of Black African students gain 3 A grades at A-Level (the exams taken two years later at age 18) compared with 11% of White British students, 14% of Indian students and an astounding 24% of Chinese students). Black university students are also much less likely to achieve a First or Upper Second class degree at university than White British, Chinese and Indian students.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/a-levels/students-aged-16-to-18-achieving-3-a-grades-or-better-at-a-level/latest

    Out in the real world, in the cutthroat market economy, Blacks in the UK (around two-thirds of whom are Black African) perform much worse on average. They have low average incomes, and 16% of Blacks in Britain are in the lowest-skilled Elementary occupations (including street-sweepers, luggage carriers, garbage collectors and janitors), compared with 11% of Whites and 9% of Indians. 17% of Blacks are in caring, leisure and other services (waiters, bartenders, care assistants), compared with only 9% of Whites and 6% of Indians.

    Sincerely,

    Niklas Edward Forberg

  45. Giuseppe says:

    Might not the lower test scores of British white children be due to societal disintegration, of which immigration is but one of the symptoms? Might not there be some factor within the structure of African societies that still places a high value on education, despite some national dysfunction in other areas, that is gradually being lost in Britain?

    • Agree: jim jones
  46. niceland says:

    Interesting article, thanks!

    Question: What went wrong with blacks in the US?

  47. African children do well in English but how well do they do in, say, Ashanti… can they build from scratch a probe to explore the space using their own languages and skills? If I were you, Chanda Chisala, I would think about creating an original African script for all sub Saharan African patois before trying to compete with a race that gave to the mankind the modern world in which you are thriving. If Blacks are as smart as you think they are than time will show that to be true but in the meantime, attend to the basics without taking it all so personally!

  48. Once a society is destroyed by diversity, everybody is equal because former superiors have been dragged down into the muck.

  49. AaronB says:

    Very cute that you think this is about logic and facts. Nice effort though.

    • Replies: @Talha
  50. @Liza

    Wrong. Hong Kong was great. High IQ races go well together. I wish I could have been in HK in 1960.

  51. @Peter Frost

    I thought I knew everything I needed to know about the black IQ gap, I was wrong. Quite fascinating!

  52. Epigon says:
    @Bruno

    It’s sad because I would be happy if there were a wakanda …

    You Frenchmen never change.

  53. @ThreeCranes

    Steven Pinker did just that.

    My knowledge of Pinker’s work is admittedly thin. But from the little I have read – and I have revisited some, not all, of his writings, I see little to no mention of genocidal in contrast to homicidal tendencies as being possibly genetically determined and whether or not objective studies undertaken by credible scientists of all races to that end are warranted. Now that is the essence of my suggestion, with the caveat that

    The real challenge might lie in crafting an aptly worded testable hypothesis.

    I stated this being fully cognizant of my inadequacies in the social sciences disciplines. But my suggestion would require more than the input of social scientists, Pinker included. This you conveniently omit in your rejoinder and instead focus on imaginary anger and resentment on my part by simply asking questions that appear to make you uncomfortable and put you in a defensive mode about your race. Mine has not been identified by the way, unwittingly betraying your own biases in your post. I did note that in the suggestions I put forward that data should not be in short supply for such investigations. Now no matter who is more homicidal than whom, the waves of genocidal frenzies that began in earnest with the “voyages of discovery” in late 15th century with the accompanying theft of entire continents should surely contain sufficient data to, at the very least, prompt genetic (not only social) studies to obejectively evaluate this issue. Not to mention the horrendous results of the two world wars, none of which were started by “noble savages”. This in no way falsifies that the violent streak as being essentially human. What I speak of are scales and magnitudes of violence and whether or not such phenomena are genetically determined. Back to Pinker, I find it odd that in his defense of Jews not being any more murderous than other “tribes” (perfectly understandable) went on to mention that Christians, Hindus, Muslims, and Chinese also boasted of torture and genocide in their early history. Muslim, Christian and Hindu tribes? Very odd for a social scientist to conflate religious with ethnic (biological) affiliations.

  54. Liza says:
    @Silva

    Yes, Chanda does indeed like a lot of white things. That’s not the issue. The issue is – does he like US? Do black people in general like us, will they help us when things really go south? Will they return all the favors we have done them – all the help, all the apologies, everything. We could have wiped them out, every last one.

    Will Chanda and all his black friends with their PhDs give homeless, starving white people a leg up when push comes to shove? All this discussion of IQ is useless if the people you are educating are burning with hatred while gobbling up the goodies.

    White culture minus the white man – LOL.

  55. BCB-232 says:

    “If a multiracial society is found where these race differences in intelligence are absent, the evolutionary and genetic theory of these differences would be falsified.” – Richard Lynn

    The extremity and carelessness of his statement made it easy to use it against him.

  56. @WolfHere

    You did not understand what this “Miggle” said. Your level of intelligence does not rise to comprehending irony. You only understand the literal and jump to conclusions. I would say your IQ is average. Don’t bother reading more yourself, it will do you no good.

    • Replies: @WolfHere
  57. @AskNotWhatWhiteyCanDoForYou

    Yup, look at Canada. The first generation Indian immigrants are hard working and smart. But then you look at the 2nd generation and they’re already following the thug life, dealing drugs, committing petty crime.

    • Replies: @Edward
  58. Tyrion 2 says:

    You didn’t defeat the selective migration thesis. You merely pointed at some of the excesses of your opponents, made some rhetorical flourishes and left it at that.

    A very small fraction of Africa’s population has made it to Britain but making it to Britain is extremely desirable. It is only possible for both of these to be true because moving to Britain is difficult. It is therefore extraordinary to claim that getting here wouldn’t correlate very strongly with g.

    You give no evidence for why it wouldn’t. Instead you made some rather weak (disingenuous?) statements around the issue.

    Until you address this obvious explanation for the phenomenon you have identified, you do not have a thesis.

    I’d love it if you did.

  59. @Wizard of Oz

    “Many at least of the author’s figures relate to adolescents so the decline with age argument isn’t very compelling – or have I missed something?”

    Mean IQ of African Americans is estimated to be 85. If we look at the study by Dickens and Flynn (1980), we find that this level isn’t reached until 24 years of age. At 15, their mean IQ is 88.8. So, among African Americans, IQ is higher and more malleable in adolescents than in adults. In sum, intellectual capacity seems to decline gradually in African Americans from early childhood to early adulthood, with the bottom being reached in one’s early 20s. In Euro Americans, this decline begins later and is less steep.

    As I see it there are two flaws in Chanda’s argument. First, he is assuming that the intellectual capacity of non-adults (children and adolescents) is the same as that of adults. Second, he’s assuming that all Africans are the same. They aren’t. Africa is a continent whose peoples have very different evolutionary histories. The Igbo people, in particular, seem to have an unusually high intellectual capacity, and I suspect that the same may be true to varying degrees for other peoples.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    , @Wizard of Oz
  60. Edward says:
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Do you have any actual evidence to support what you’re saying here? Abada et al. (2008) show that the children of Indian immigrants have extremely high educational attainment.

    Second and third-generation Indian-Americans also still do extremely well educationally, occupationally and income-wise. We see this in SAT data, National Merit data and other domains.

    Similarly, British Indian students (most of whom are third-generation) are still the second-highest performing ethnic group in the UK educationally, after Chinese students (see my post challenging Mr. Chisala’s claims above). This is in line with the CAT data from 2009-10, which suggest that the average Indian student (mostly third-generation) has an ~100.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/a-to-c-in-english-and-maths-gcse-attainment-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/a-levels/students-aged-16-to-18-achieving-3-a-grades-or-better-at-a-level/latest

    Working-age British Indians, who are mostly a mixture of second and third-generation Indians, are the highest paid in the country.

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/pay-and-income/average-hourly-pay/latest

    Occupation-wise, 43% of working-age British Indians are in professional and managerial occupations, massively outperforming the other main ethnic groups (data for the Chinese working-age population aren’t available).

    https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/employment/employment-by-occupation/latest

    And remember: these second and third-generation Indians descend from families who came to Britain in the period of literally uncontrolled, unselective immigration from 1948-1961 (1968 for Indians in Kenya and Uganda who kept their UK Passports as they were afraid they would be expelled, as they were). Of course, there was likely some degree of self-selection, but many of those who came were working in fairly low-skilled occupations.

    By contrast, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Black Caribbean third-generation students – who also came in significant numbers in the period of uncontrolled, unselective immigration perform very poorly educationally in the UK.

    As I noted in my post above, do not expect significant regression toward the mean to occur. It’s just not going to, because of the Breeder’s Equation which tells us that the family mean is much more important, a fact backed up by empirical data from Gregory Clark. It’s this kind of thinking which allows Chanda Chisala to claim that the absence of regression toward the mean means that the hereditarian position has been defeated.

  61. Talha says:
    @trelane

    “The thing about (–insert color of choice–) people is that they appear to be the product of natural selection in the environment of evolutionary adaptation.”

    Peace.

  62. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    It’s fun though to break out the popcorn and observe – you gotta admit that. This is indeed a welcome entry into the debate; certainly has spurred a lot of interesting comments.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  63. @Peter Frost

    “Mean IQ of African Americans is estimated to be 85. If we look at the study by Dickens and Flynn (1980), we find that this level isn’t reached until 24 years of age. At 15, their mean IQ is 88.8. So, among African Americans, IQ is higher and more malleable in adolescents than in adults. In sum, intellectual capacity seems to decline gradually in African Americans from early childhood to early adulthood..”

    What appears to be happening is (what I was saying last week to Corvinus and his buddy) that while white adolescents make the transition from (what Piaget called) concrete operational reasoning to formal operational reasoning, black adolescents do not. Black adults think fine as long as the argument is presented in terms of things, but it is vain and futile to attempt to reason with them in abstract terms. They just don’t get algebra, geometry, symbolic logic or computer programming.

    And, not being capable of reasoning in formal terms, it becomes virtually impossible to explain to them what they are missing in their arguments. You cannot make it clear to them that there is a set of rules that governs or imposes order on what constitutes sound argument. Not being able to grasp this, they grow suspicious and think that whites must have a trick up their sleeve, a self-seeking, ulterior motive behind their verbal chicanery. From there it’s an easy leap to acceptance of Marxist denunciation of all instruments of authority as mere means of oppression and exploitation.

  64. Peter Frost beat me to it: we know from studies of identical twins reared apart that heritability for intelligence (and all behavioral traits) is relatively low in childhood and increases throughout adolescence. In fact, it even increases throughout adulthood. We also know from studies of Blacks adopted by middle class Whites in the US that Black gains from an enriched environment evaporate in adulthood.

    The link from Edward pretty much sums it up (https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/a-levels/students-aged-16-to-18-achieving-3-a-grades-or-better-at-a-level/latest)

    For British Students aged 16 to 18 achieving 3 A grades or better at A level:

    Chinese: 24%
    White British: 11%
    Mixed White/Black: 9%
    Black African: 5%
    Black Caribbean: 3%

    See a familiar pattern? Granted, the “Black African” category lumps together Somalis and Igbos, but I don’t see those numbers doubling. (It would be instructive to know the proportion of Africans from each category noted by the author taking the test above). And get back us with IQ tests taken past the age of 20.

    Give us a 10-year follow-up study. We’ll have the usual Black masses familiar to everyone where they live. Give us a generation and we’ll have more Black ghettos.

    There are a handful of Black posters here, and it’s always the same. Complete inability to be objective. There’s a wealth of data all pointing in the same direction (GWAS; mental reaction times; regression to the mean; brain size) and a complete inability to analyze it holistically and objectively. Even the smart ones are empathizers not systematizers.

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
  65. Silva says:
    @Johnny Rottenborough

    Yeah, all of those are excuses usually made for blacks (and ridiculed here). Funny, all of that and more happened to Jews and even harder to Chinese, and it made them angry, not dumb.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rottenborough
  66. Truth says:

    Damn! C-Cheese got a column?

    There goes the neighborhood.

  67. padre says:
    @Anon

    So, it was OK for British Empire to spread all over the world,but now that they came to Britain, they should better go home, where they belong?

  68. Truth says:
    @Peter Frost

    “When we compare the capacity for education between the lower and higher races, we find that the great point of divergence is at adolescence and the inference is fairly good that we shall not find in the brains of the lower races the post-pubertal growth in the cortex to which I have just alluded.” (Boas, 1974, p. 234)

    Eyferth, K. (1961). Leistungen verscheidener Gruppen von Besatzungskindern in Hamburg-Wechsler Intelligenztest für Kinder (HAWIK). Archiv für die gesamte Psychologie, 113, 222-241.

    Hey Poutine, long time no talk.

    I see you ripped these studies straight from the headlines.

  69. AAA21 says:

    Interesting analysis, although Chanda seems too emotionally attached to the discussion. Racial and/or ethnic IQ differences is an issue that needs to be analyzed dispassionately, not with the view that any discussion of these is ipso facto “racist”. As others have pointed out here, Africa is much more genetically diverse than Europe, so generic discussions of “Black” vs. “White” may hide significant individual differences.
    It would be interesting to get Murray’s take on the arguments presented here. Murray for all his faults seems to approach this issue more dispassionately than Chanda, who seems hell bent on “proving” his point come hell or high water.
    It is important to understand that we are talking about IQ DISTRIBUTIONS in various populations, and that there are plenty of Africans with High IQs, just as there are plenty of Whites with Low IQs, and that in some cases these probably self-select in terms of mates, resulting in “castes” if you will of Higher and Lower IQ groups.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  70. @Coos Palmboom

    Not pretending that my claims are in any way scientific, I would say that the Russian school system is vastly superior to the European, perhaps at a level Europeans were used to before the organised dumbing down of their education which started in the 1960s, making them much better trained to acquire new knowledge.

    We may already be seeing the effects of the “dumbing down” you mentioned. If education is as important as educators say it is, then it’s lack should result in an overall lowering in the accomplishments of the people involved. Increased levels of drug use. Exportation of complex jobs. Poor job accomplishment. Crime. Suicide.
    Of course, the “dumbing down” only affected the children of the Deplorables. They paid the price for the Patricians to feel good about themselves. That’s all it ever was.

    To a great extent, social strata is inherited. Membership in the proper club. Or University. Or Religion. All these are handed down along family lines. A group of families forms a tribe. A group of people that should be dedicated to self improvement.
    Eventually, one group will rise to the top. And barring some cataclysm, will stay there for many years. Perhaps, forever.

  71. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Instead they follow ‘racist whites’ everywhere.
    Why? Because they are incapable of creating anything of significance by themselves.

    In the real world their much lower IQs are obvious.

    In every instance where blacks & browns are in great numbers, and / or control the governments of cities, counties, regions, states, countries, & continents we see:
    massive murder rates
    massive crime in general
    degraded property
    massive disease, especially STDs
    massive drug & alcohol abuse
    general filth, squalor
    massive birthrates
    inability / unwillingness to support their own children
    massive youth pregnancies rates
    massive school dropout rates
    incredibly low IQs & test scores
    violence as a way of life
    fathers nowhere to be found

    • Replies: @HallParvey
  72. Wally says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Yawn.
    Please tell us what a “neo-Nazi” is.

  73. @Justsaying

    ‘…Could real scientific investigations on genocidal tendencies of White Caucasians on scales and magnitudes unprecedented in human history be also on the cards?…’

    Isn’t what you’re referring to more a function of capability than tendency? After all, if I have a gallon of Round Up, and you just have a trowel, that I kill weeds ten times faster than you hardly demonstrates that I am a born killer but you aren’t.

    In any case, the most spectacular ‘genocidal’ outbreak of all time would actually be the Mongol ravages of the thirteenth century. Those were Asians, not Caucasians. For more recent displays, the Hutu and the Tutsi are hard to top for sheer enthusiasm. Again, not Caucasians.

    Perhaps you were being sarcastic but I missed it?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Talha
  74. Thomm says:

    Remember that White Trashionalists have sub-Negro IQs.

    That is why we call them ‘Wiggers’.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  75. @AAA21

    ‘Interesting analysis…’

    It seems to me to be the opposite of analysis. Chanda takes test results of obscure significance, and without defining what was tested muddies the waters with generous dollops of jargon, and then claims it demonstrates blacks are just as smart as whites.

    Ironically, I’m vaguely reminded of Holocaust denial. A similar process of obfuscation, attribution of overwhelming significance to stray bits of data, spurious pretensions to scholarly objectivity, and willfully ignoring the elephant in the room winds up with a declaration that the Holocaust didn’t happen at all.

    Now I’ll get a barrage of rebuttals from Holocaust deniers, but leaving those aside, the intellectual process really is quite similar.

    The truth is usually perfectly clear and quite easily demonstrated. If blacks were as intelligent as other races, it would be fairly obvious in everyday life and easily confirmed by reference to data that clearly measures intelligence. The exact opposite is the case, because the exact opposite is what is true.

    • Replies: @Edward
  76. @gate666

    All one has to do is look at continental Sub-Saharan African history to know that in 10,000 years- despite having all necessary resources under their feet- blacks never made one forward step in the direction of technological innovation, multi-story building technology, locomotives, firearms, mechanized agriculture, nor scientific inquiry. Instead, all of the aforementioned were brought to them by Europeans and Arabs.

    • Replies: @Pam's Travels
  77. Ha. Ha. Ha. Little black African girls are smarter than you fat dumb old white bozos. Ha. Ha. Ha.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @obwandiyag
  78. crimson2 says:
    @Peter Frost

    So Chanda has discovered what many IQ researchers have long known: if you place children in an enriched learning environment, they will do much better on IQ tests. Unfortunately, this improvement will not last. It will “wash out” and disappear by adulthood.

    Even if this is true–and I would suspect social/institutional reasons for any “wash out” effect–in this case it only means that the black African English-firsters will regress to about the level of their white British counterparts.

    Assuming that a “wash out” effect is genetic is dangerous. There are likely things that can be done to reduce it or eliminate it completely.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
  79. Anon[168] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Couple reasons why they didn’t use gunpowder for a long time . First the ingredients are different weights and especially transporting in a bumpy wagon the heavy ingredients sank to the bottom so it wasn’t really gunpowder any more just ingredients needing to be mixed again useless.

    Someone came up with the idea of soaking it wet, spreading it out to dry and then smashing it up unto tiny pieces. It worked the ingredients stayed together. Unless of course the tiny pieces were further smashed during those bumpy wagon rides and the ingredients separated again.

    But it worked.

    They didn’t have guns . A 1300s monk made the first European rifle sort of but it took forever to fire and accuracy was iffy or non existent.
    The first useful muskets involved pouring powder into a pan on the musket sparking tinder lighting a sort of match finally lighting the gunpowder.

    It was an elaborate process that requires training and practice to do swiftly and accurately without blowing yourself and others up

    Since it took so long to light the gunpowder fire the guns they organized the soldiers into a caracole the French called it. One group would be loading and getting ready to fire One group would be firing One group would be getting out of the way and getting ready to load and light the powder again

    Often it was 3 ranks. Front rank fired, knelt and prepared the musket. Meanwhile second tank fired. over their heads. Then dropped. Third rank fired.

    By that time front rank got got up and fired again.

    It required a lot of training and precision and sergeants observing and yelling orders. It would be almost like a dance troop.

    It takes time to turn new discoveries into useful tools. Early cannons were always blowing up. It took time to figure out how to use trigonometry to aim the cannons

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @Logan
  80. crimson2 says:
    @ThreeCranes

    How bout we send you and your enormous IQ to do it? I’d bet that you would fail miserably.

    • Replies: @bomag
    , @pB
    , @ThreeCranes
  81. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Yeah, it’s pretty amusing.

    The Africans are actually doing a pretty good job holding their own – that Okchechwu dude is probably smarter than most people on Karlins blog (although that’s not saying much).

    I have to say its funny seeing whites fight with Africans :) They can’t help themselves. Its a distraction, but the perfect pastime for a people in terminal decline, to get caught up in useless distractions. If I was a Jewish supremacist, I’d be laughing so hard … :)

    Somehow, white self esteem on the alt-right is genuinely challenged by blacks in a way they aren’t by Asians. I suspect it’s because the alt-right admires masculine virility and barbarian vigor more than anything, and in their mind blacks effortlessly surpass them in these, err, values. It wounds them in their most sensitive place. This applies only to the alt-right.

    They are genuinely brittle people – that’s why they compensate with things like Game, the Paleo Diet, macho posturing, being “strong”.

    But this makes them freak out around Africans, who in their fevered imagination surpass them in all these traits.

    Whiskey is an example if someone whose mind has become utterly unhinged by this.

    Very amusing to watch :)

    I have more sympathy for the Africans in this fight for obvious reasons, but they’re also being retarded by trying to play the competitive game. The more fool them.

    Oh well.

    • Replies: @Talha
  82. Edward says:
    @Colin Wright

    These test results are not of obsecure significance. They are compulsory examinations taken at age 16 in the United Kingdom. The University of Oxford, among others, puts heavy weight on GCSEs. Ian Deary and colleagues, in a famous 2007 paper, found that the g factor explains more than half of the variance in ‘Best Eight’ GCSE scores (one of the metrics that Chisala uses).

    Chisala’s claims cannot be explained away by a) challenging the integrity of the tests themselves or b) hypothesising regression toward some racial mean. I’ve already explained, in my initial post challenging Chisala’s claims, why significant regression won’t be seen.

    It might be the case that regression will occur as age increases, but as crimson2 points out, Black Africans who speak English as their first language already outperform White British students on the GCSE metric, so if they regress, it will only be to the level of White British students.

    It’s a shame that we don’t have data at the upper end of the GCSE attainment scale, because in examinations taken two years later (at age 18), the proportions of people from different groups attaining the top grades follows the usual pattern that one can observe in British society as a whole: Chinese followed by Indians followed by Whites followed by Pakistanis/Bangladeshis followed by Blacks. This is probably a mixture of the data looking at the top end of the A-Level scale and regression with age.

    Chisala’s data can be explained from a hereditarian viewpoint; I have attempted this in my initial response to him.

    • Replies: @Peasant
  83. @gate666

    It is an interesting article, but it’s only the start of the discussion. Long ago, I was your typical cuck Republican believing that what kept blacks from achieving like whites and Asians was culture and incentives. Slowly, the evidence that genetics played a part became overwhelming.

    Perhaps the author is on to something, but it will take much more than one set of tests to prove his point. That is as it should be.

    He needs to show that black students continue to outperform white students as they age. (Also, he needs more than just one round of tests at any age.) He needs to explain why black countries – if they have the necessary IQ – are simply incapable of maintaining, much less creating, a modern economy. (Colonialism isn’t an answer because Asian countries did it.) He needs to do a better job proving that British blacks are an outlier.

    There is a massive amount of evidence that blacks on average have a lower IQ than whites, just as there is a massive amount of evidence that NE Asians have a higher visual spatial IQ than whites. I would not be convinced by one set of tests that whites math IQ is on par with NE Asians, so why would I be convinced that black IQ is on par with whites from one test.

    That being said, it’s a very interesting article and one that should be taken seriously. But we’re at best one or two outs into the top of the first inning.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
    , @bucky
    , @gregor
  84. @Edward

    ‘ …34% of White British pupils who receive free school meals achieve 5 A*-C grades at GCSE, compared with 67% of White pupils who aren’t on free school meals. ..’

    Obviously, canceling free school meals would produce a dramatic improvement in white academic achievement. Would the same happen if we took away free school meals from blacks?

    Could the answer be this simple?

    • Replies: @Edward
  85. nickels says:

    Okay, so who is going to write the next article on how the Germanic peoples are the best basketball players?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  86. @Wally

    The desperate NEED in the U.S. on the part of our leadership and their contributors, is to equalize everybody. With exceptions, of course. For the last eighty years. But, how to do it.

    You can’t do it by elevating the lowest. But you can lower the highest. Thus, equality. Desperate needs are satisfied. Everybody’s happy. Everybody who counts.

  87. @Silva

    Silva—those are excuses usually made for blacks (and ridiculed here)…all of that and more happened to Jews and even harder to Chinese, and it made them angry

    Blacks can best escape ridicule, and Jews and Chinese can best deal with their anger issues, by returning permanently to their ancestral homelands, leaving whites at peace in their homelands. Everybody wins!

    • Replies: @Silva
  88. @Anon

    I know all these things, in the 13th century or so there even were cannon loaded at the back.
    The question is, why did the west take all the trouble to develop fire arms, cannon weighing up to 15.000 kg, and why not elsewhere in the world ?
    The Ottoman ruler who took Constantinople used cannon made by western engineers.
    Jezuits produced cannon for the Chinese emperors, yet they ware thrown out of China.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  89. Swan Knight says: • Website

    Next let’s deal with documented crime statistics by race…

  90. MarkinLA says:
    @jilles dykstra

    What IQ his Arabian guides had, no idea, the idea that stupid people could travel through these arid regions without dying seems a stupid a idea to me.

    You seem to be confusing intelligence with knowledge. Knowledge is like a book. Reading it won’t make you smarter than you already are. However, there may be useful information in it that can be of help to you. Intelligence would be in figuring out how to use that knowledge for further advancement.

    The guides knew from past experience where the water sources where and how long it took to get there. They knew his long a sand storm usually lasts and what to do. All this was passed down from generation to generation like the information in a book.

  91. Edward says:
    @Colin Wright

    What the free school meal (FSM) data do show is that Black Africans are outperforming White British students largely because of the underperformance of working-class White British students.

    There’s even more evidence for this that I’ve just found (so apologies for all of the posts): I should have been more thorough in my research before pronouncing that there had never been figures released as to how many pupils from each ethnic group achieve the top grades at GCSE (these figures, bizarrely, are released for A-Levels).

    Here’s a Daily Mail article from 2010 which gives us what we need: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1261415/Chinese-Indian-pupils-grades-GCSE-British-children.html

    Proportion of pupils from each ethnic group gaining at least an A grade in GCSE English:

    Chinese: 29%
    Indians: 21%
    White British: 15%
    Black Africans: 11%
    Pakistanis: 9%
    Black Caribbean: 8%

    Proportion of pupils from each ethnic group gaining at least an A grade in GCSE Maths:

    Chinese: 55%
    Indians: 31%
    White British: 16%
    Black Africans: 14%
    Pakistanis: 13%
    Black Caribbean: 8%

    This is a similar rank-order to the A-Level data, although Black Africans do relatively better at GCSE. This may be because the A-Level data look at all subjects (and pupils get to choose their subjects, so they may choose less g-loaded subjects). It may also in part be due to the regression with age that Peter Frost spoke of.

    However, it’s clear that at GCSE level, it is more the bottom of the White distribution than the top which is the problem. This chimes with Theodore Dalrymple’s writing about the underclass in Britain.

  92. szopen says:
    @Kratoklastes

    pure-hereditarians will need to hoist the white flag

    What do you mean by “pure-hereditarians”? Hereditarian position is that some proportion of differences between people and populations is due to the hereditary factors. There is and AFAIK never was any serious hereditarian claiming there is all due to the genes.

    Moreover, the fact that there could be large differences between smaller populations is also quite obvious. Whites are comprised from multiple groups, from Portuguese to Finns, and the differences between are quite large. It is and it always was obvious that there could be black groups with IQ higher than average black SSA mean IQ.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  93. anonymous[572] • Disclaimer says:
    @Edward

    Thank you for your comments.

    Chisala has been quite dishonest about this remark by Strand regarding African blacks – “…have much higher than average levels of socio-economic disadvantage.” When you look at that report, you find that the African groups who have the highest scores, Yoruba, Shona, Igbo, Akan, have the lowest FSM. Much, much lower than the other African black groups and are even lower than the white British FSM except for the Akan which are equivalent to the white British.

  94. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The author needs to graph mean test scores by age. The Black-White gap in the US has been studied ad infinitum, always with the same results. Perhaps the Black migration to the Americas took the dullest, but again the majority of the evidence doesn’t support this.

    One day – hopefully sooner rather than later – we’ll have enough computing power/AI to discover the thousands+ of genes that contribute to IQ and untangle all of the non-additive effects of different genes. That would resolve this once and for all. However, just to be on the safe side, why don’t we have Africans stay in their home countries. Or better yet, send the ones you already have packing. You can even expel us Jews so long as the Blacks and Browns have to go too.

  95. bucky says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Strictly speaking, it is culture because culture determines behaviour and there still is an element of choice and chosen behaviour and culture.

    It doesn’t take intelligence to behave with restraint and respect. It doesn’t take intelligence to behave in a conscientious manner. Black behaviour and lack of achievement comes from their…bad manners, not their lack of intelligence.

  96. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    but they’re also being retarded by trying to play the competitive game

    And according to the rules someone else wrote…really, really bad move.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  97. @crimson2

    Even if this is true–and I would suspect social/institutional reasons for any “wash out” effect–in this case it only means that the black African English-firsters will regress to about the level of their white British counterparts.”

    Uh, no. Please let me explain.

    If we look at the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, the enriched learning environment of a White Minnesotan family increased IQ by the same amount for all racial groups. At age 7, black adoptees had an IQ of 97, biracial adoptees an IQ of 109, and white adoptees an IQ of 112. These are impressive results, considering that the mean white American IQ is now probably less than 100. But the black-white difference in IQ was not erased. It was simply shifted upwards.

    If we look at the same adoptees at 17 years of age, this improvement had largely disappeared. The black adoptees had fallen to an IQ of 89, the biracial adoptees to an IQ of 99, and the white adoptees to an IQ of 106.

    At 17 years of age, children are still living with their parents, so these declines are not due to a decline in parental support. Perhaps peer pressure might be a factor. Or perhaps not. These are hypotheses that have to be supported with data, and not with empty reassurances.

    Assuming that a “wash out” effect is genetic is dangerous.

    Look, we’re in the year 2018. There is a lot of irresponsible racist rhetoric out there, and almost all of it is directed against white people. It’s so mainstream, you probably take it for granted.

    There are likely things that can be done to reduce it or eliminate it completely.

    In adults? Unfortunately not.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
    , @crimson2
  98. Hey chanda!
    Guess what! IDGAF
    Go home. Exit stage left. Don’t let te door….

    We neither need nor require your ‘contribution’. We don’t like the way you speak, smell or ‘socialize’. Understand this, if our elites had tried to pull this sh$t in the past their would have been war. You, and your ilk, have been used as pawns by our elites.
    It will not stand.
    Now f$ck off.

    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @crimson2
  99. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Good point.

    That Chinese gmachine character writes about how stupid it is for Chinese to play within rules created by and for white people…then proceeds to do just that with a vengeance :)

    Materialism really makes one stupid. Its like everyone is just dumb these days.

    I think we should scrap IQ tests and just ask if someone is a materialist – if yes, we can reliably know they just won’t be able to think with any complexity or self-awareness :)

    See, no need for IQ tests.

    To be fair though, when one is consumed by the competitive instinct, it can be hard to resist any “challenge” however inane – one must constantly prove oneself, because your self worth is perpetually on the line.

    If whites make a game and create the rules, non-whites who are brittle and insecure won’t be able to resist jumping through the hoops.

    I once lived with a Jewish guy who was absolutely consumed by the competitive instinct – all you had to do was frame a situation in terms of competition, of wether he was “able” to do something, and he would jump through any hoop. His self image was perpetually on the line.

    He was very easy to manipulate, and it was very said in a way. In his mind of course he was a macho stud. I got the feeling that if he lived in a society where everyone rolled rocks up hills for no reason, he’d try to roll more rocks faster than any one else, and mock and deride anyone who questioned the paradigm of rolling rocks :)

    You would only question rolling rocks because you couldn’t. That’s how he thought lol.

    I think young women should study Game and PUA – and macho posturing in general – in order to easily manipulate the fragile men who practice these things.

    However, I think female intuition about the male fragility behind macho posturing and the ease with which such men could be controlled is a mainstay of traditional culture and satire.

    Well, funny how my ideas jumped from one thing to another.

    • Replies: @Talha
  100. Agent76 says:

    Nov 28, 2016 How America’s public schools keep kids in poverty with Kandice Sumner

    Why should a good education be exclusive to rich kids? Schools in low-income neighborhoods across the US, specifically in communities of color, lack resources that are standard at wealthier schools — things like musical instruments, new books, healthy school lunches and soccer fields — and this has a real impact on the potential of students. Kandice Sumner sees the disparity every day in her classroom in Boston. In this inspiring talk, she asks us to face facts — and change them.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @ThreeCranes
  101. @Bombercommand

    Do you think “White Europeans” are the same as they were before the dysgenic breeding started in the 19th century (for Western Europe – maybe a bit later elsewhere) aided by extreme reduction in neonatal mortality?

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  102. @Truth

    That’s all you got “Troof”??? So why didn’t these alleged “we wuz kangz” people take their alleged “chariots” with them when they allegedly migrated to sub saharan africa in 7000BC to escape the post ice age drought??? Everything in my comment is supported by archeological artifacts, you present a goofy video. Which one of us is promoting a “silly myth”??? And if you want to continue the discussion, I’ve left a lot unsaid, so bring it on, “Troof”.

    • Replies: @Truth
  103. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Peter Frost

    Look, we’re in the year 2018. There is a lot of irresponsible racist rhetoric out there, and almost all of it is directed against white people. It’s so mainstream, you probably take it for granted

    This.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  104. bomag says:
    @crimson2

    How bout we send you… you would fail miserably.

    So, ’cause white people can’t fix black people, they are failures?

  105. crimson2 says:
    @Peter Frost

    If we look at the same adoptees at 17 years of age…

    This isn’t responsive to my main point. Black Africans who speak English first are outscoring native British kids. There’s no good reason to believe that this will be undone through some sort of “wash-out,” much less reversed.

    Look, we’re in the year 2018. There is a lot of irresponsible racist rhetoric out there, and almost all of it is directed against white people. It’s so mainstream, you probably take it for granted.

    I don’t see that at all. Even if true, it wouldn’t excuse MORE irresponsible racist rhetoric.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    , @bomag
  106. Tom67 says:

    Dear Mr Chisala
    Thanks for this interesting article. I am not surprised at all. As a matter of fact I had the pleasure of travelling with Nigerian criminals many years ago. They were trying to cross the Belorussian-Polish and had made the mistake of mentioning that they had 10s of thousands of Dollars. Albeit in commercial paper but their Russian was so poor that everybody thought they indeed had cash. Back in the Nineties a sure way to an early death. So I warned them and helped them find another border crossing. Indeed I had troubles crossing this very border as well so we travelled together. Evidently they had quite a good education and they were successful white collar criminals. Their tricks were quite simple but effective. In fact they told me there are schools in Lagos were they teach you the psychology of tricking whites. And it is oh so easy they told me. They all think we are stupid and we do nothing to disabuse them of this opinion. In fact counting on the superior complex of whites is a very easy way to make a living. Well, I couldn´t take Mr. Murray serious when his book the “Bell Curve” came out and I am happy to see that you found such incontrovertible data.
    I am German – Russian by the way and 55 and if intelligence as measured by the IQ test was really mostly determined by genes then it is inexplicable how my generation should be much more intelligent than the generation of our grandfathers. (The Flynn effect). For genes don´t change in two generation. So there must be other explanations. In the case of your African achievers in Great Britain I surmise that
    1. their mothers still cook regular food and not TV dinners,
    2. that they talk to each other and not watch TV all the time or are glued to their smart phones
    3. that they know that education is the only way forward
    4. are not (yet) influenced by the crap that passes for culture in the West
    5. still have roots in the ancient wisdom of their homeland while we are busily throwing ours away here.
    Whatever: keep up the good work.

  107. crimson2 says:
    @steinbergfeldwtizcohen

    Hey chanda!
    Guess what! IDGAF
    Go home. Exit stage left. Don’t let te door….

    We neither need nor require your ‘contribution’. We don’t like the way you speak, smell or ‘socialize’. Understand this, if our elites had tried to pull this sh$t in the past their would have been war. You, and your ilk, have been used as pawns by our elites.
    It will not stand.
    Now f$ck off.

    The diapers really get soiled when the facts don’t go your way. :)

  108. bomag says:
    @padre

    OK for British Empire to spread… [Africans] should better go home

    A common argument is that Black Africans et al are dumb, poor, and suffering, and must move to White run countries to keep themselves alive.

    Now we can dispense with this argument; not that it will stop the deluge.

  109. AaronB says:
    @Tyrion 2

    And the solution, of course, is for white people to level the field and start indulging in racial rhetoric towards others.

    And of course, anti-white racist rhetoric isn’t itself in response to the kind of maximally racist rhetoric practiced by the Victorians that led to the extermination of the Tasmanians and to a highly educated British doctor using the skull of the last Tasmanian as a pipe.

    Its not like were trapped in a Wheel of Racism or anything.

    Oh wait, carry on. Sorry I forgot we were all humans here.

  110. @padre

    “So, it was OK for British Empire to spread all over the world,but now that they came to Britain, they should better go home, where they belong?”

    Correct. The sooner the better.

  111. @jilles dykstra

    Mr. Dykstra, much more important than cannon to the history of firearms is the development of “lockwork”, and in this the Europeans were the originators and absolute masters and non-European nations contributed absolutely nothing. A cannon is merely a hollow bronze tube stuffed with black powder and a projectile, even an Arab could manage that. But lockwork is a miniaturized precision instrument, and it can be argued that the pure genius, engineering acumen and machinist skills required to invent and refine lockwork are the origin point of modern technology. I strongly urge everyone to make at least a survey study of the history of lockwork from wheel locks to sidelocks to the Anson and Dealy boxlock, no other civilization but the White European was capable of this achievement.

  112. SD2 says:

    Can you stop contradicting yourself? If you compare the blacks from English speaking African countries that moved to the UK, how the heck is it a counter-argument against the self-selection hypotheses that refugees from some war torn country also migrate to the UK? They’re beyond the scope of the gist of your argument! Also, I suggest that you do more work on citing the work you base your arguments on instead of citing what Murray believes – we can google his stuff if we’re curious and don’t already know.

    Also, maybe you’ll start basing your arguments on cognitive tests applied on adults. I’m neither surprised by the fact white English children are getting dumb. Just look at who reproduces out of that group – shit chavs for the most part. lol

  113. @Peter Frost

    Peter, what’s your explanation for the decline from childhood to adolescence to adulthood (age 24)? How could it be biological/genetic? Even Olympic sprinters who used to be thought to peak at 25, have won gold medals at 35, which is at least suggestive.

    Is not the key starting point that we are considering the results of doing IQ tests or equivalent? Different life courses would surely explain much if not all the decline in averages and those life courses can be the product of family wealth or community culture. N’est-ce pas? Have we any information about the age related average IQs of products of the drinking, smoking Glasgow working class compared with the private school educated London (or Glasgow)middle class? (Of course I appreciate that family wealth and community culture may themselves be substantially affected by average IQ…)

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  114. @crimson2

    Black Africans who speak English first are outscoring native British kids. There’s no good reason to believe that this will be undone through some sort of “wash-out,” much less reversed.

    The reason is that the native British kids are being raised in an inferior learning environment. Many if not most are raised in single parent households with minimal parental support. Nor is there any support from the extended family or from the broader community. In fact, there is no broader community for white kids. They grow up in an environment that tells them they have no cultural identity to be proud of. This is in contrast to the Black Africans who have support from their parents, their church or mosque, and their community.

    In some cases, e.g.., Igbo families, this outscoring will not wash out. In most cases, it will.

    Even if true, it wouldn’t excuse MORE irresponsible racist rhetoric.

    I agree. Unfortunately I see few signs of de-escalation. In the recent Danforth shooting, a man made a deliberate choice to go to a white community and target only white women and white girls for death. Yet that detail was completely ignored in the media. He was simply “mentally ill” — even though his friends denied he had ever been mentally ill. We live in a culture that systematically reframes anti-white hate as something else.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  115. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    Don’t know if you’ve read this, but it’s a good one:

    http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/09/22396/

    one must constantly prove oneself, because your self worth is perpetually on the line…make a game and create the rules

    Actually – speaking of playing by someone else’s rules (and how can you avoid it unless you have an independent epistemological foundation to determine virtue and value) – a convert brother and I were recently discussing how similar the situation is that we observe in certain Christians ditching some of their principles to be acceptable to the Alt-Right when compared to Muslims ditching theirs to become acceptable by the Left-liberals. Amusing indeed.

    The upshot of the conversation was how the situation reminded us of that 80′s one-hit-wonder:
    Sister Christian, oh, the time has come
    And you know that you’re the only one
    To say, okay
    Where you going, what you looking for?
    You know those boys don’t want to play no more with you
    It’s true
    You’re motoring, what’s your price for flight?

    That Jewish guy reminds me of this:

    a highly educated British doctor using the skull of the last Tasmanian as a pipe

    Do the Brits still talk about how Lord Kitchener used the Mahdi of Sudan’s skull as a souvenir on his desk? I believe it was a paper weight of sorts. I guess it’s preferable to him using it as a goblet.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @songbird
  116. @crimson2

    That’s not even the issue.
    I don’t hang my hat on I.Q. or test scores.

    The actual issue is: how they got here and why?
    It’s called a wealth transfer. Maintain low wages. Impose it via mass migration. No democracy or referendum required.
    Elites imposed this on the West in the 60′s and 70′s. As a student of history, I can tell you that multi-culti is a failing formula.
    Your decision to believe in it does not negate that fact.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  117. @AskNotWhatWhiteyCanDoForYou

    Actually, the grandchildren of these African immigrants will be bitter that they’re living in a LATINO country ;)

  118. hrk says:
    @gate666

    Very correct, but only because we are done debating – largely because the other side stopped debating a long time ago. Even if the content of this research is legit (and it very well could be) it changes nothing for me on a practical level. Immigration is still soft invasion and it matters very little what the invader’s IQ score comes out to. My country was founded by White, Christian Europeans and I have every right to try and keep it that way.

  119. Silva says:
    @Johnny Rottenborough

    It won’t fix English fail!

    (And Chinese are dealing with their anger issues by beating whites full of fail just fine.)

  120. I change my mind: all immigrants get to stay.

    Option 1: pay cultural expropriation tax of 25% into a nationial fund that pays for their deportation costs, what you think a functioning society is ‘free?

    Option 2: get on knees everyday and thank God for being here

    OTH, maybe I think the left too dishonest to trust

    Nah. I want a repeal of the last 50 years of left-shit thought.

  121. I have long been puzzled, even before learning of the Flynn Effect, about those 70 average IQ figures for Sub Saharan Bantu and even less for Bushmen and Australian Aborigines. Not least when it is on the supposedly culture fair Raven’s Matrices in particular that the Flynn Effect has been affirmed. Perhaps it is the budgets and the competence of the reporting psychometricians that is an underlying problem. Maybe we need a Flynn Effect for psychometrics.

  122. @Justsaying

    Wanting it to be doesn’t make it so.

    • Replies: @Justsaying
  123. Figures can be manipulated any particular way a liberal’s bias goes and in this case the figures are cherry picked or selectively manipulated to make black test scores appear higher than white ones. This is contrary to IQ tests for 100 years proving the intellectual inferiority of negroes compared to whites. These magic negroes must of been recent immigrants from Wakanda!

    • Replies: @crimson2
  124. AaronB says:

    Thanks Talha, interesting.

    Indulge me for a moment in one of my flights of fancy, if you would. The IQ and competitiveness thing is ultimately related to notions of materialism and progress, it seems to me.

    I think a lot of the motivation for materialism is the idea that happiness is in the future, always in the future.

    But there is another idea, that time is an illusion, and there is only the now.

    In this version, there is nothing to attain and accomplish, because time is an illusion. In fact, striving and seeking itself is what causes misery.

    The world is God at play, the Divine Game. Play is superior to work, and the world was created not out of necessity or any kind of purpose but a kind of magical spontaneity, or the Divine Play.

    Work, seriousness, and need imply imperfection – and perfection implies play, since there is no need.

    The more perfect a culture is, the more play rather than work is at the center of its life – work meaning activity to fill a need, play being activity that is a primary satisfaction – done for its own sake.

    Because once all needs are met, what does one do? One plays. That’s why God, who is perfect and has no needs, didn’t need to create the world, and didn’t do it for any purpose. Purpose would imply he was lacking something.

    We, being united with God, are capable of play the closer we are to realising that – this applies to cultures as well as individuals.

    Materialism and Progress imply a radical sense of imperfection and need – almost limitless need, really – and happiness is in the future, always in the future.

    The more one sees oneself as the All – as United with God – the less sense of imperfection and need one has, and the less vehicles by notions if Progress.

    The more one sees oneself as an individual material fragment – the more imperfect and lacking one naturally feels compared to the All, when the more obsessed by notions of endless progress.

    Materialism, individualism, and Progress go hand and hand – and are really forms of the same idea. They necessarily create a feeling of endless lack, when thus endless progress.

    The more one feels close to God, the All, the less one feels that existential lack, and the more content one is and when one has no needs to fulfill, one turns to play.

    How does all this fit in with Sufism?

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Talha
  125. crimson2 says:
    @Peter Frost

    The reason is that the native British kids are being raised in an inferior learning environment. Many if not most are raised in single parent households with minimal parental support.

    This could be true. It is certainly true of African-Americans in the United States. I think Chanda Chisala’s point is that environmental things such as these are more important than genetic considerations. I’m not sure what the controversy is then…

    • Replies: @Edward
  126. pB says:
    @crimson2

    white people tried this and built large farms railroads and industry, for their efforts they were called devils, oppresors, hunted and hounded until they left, and all they built fell apart.

    America brings 800,000 from africa, that population is now 30,000,000 + with average income 40x that of blacks living in africa.

    whites in south africa started at 1.500,000 increased to 5,000,000 and since apartheid ended has been in perspicuous decline

    white tax payers in america paid to increase the living standards of blacks.

    how many blacks would it take to increase the living standards of whites in africa

    how many african countries would offer white immigrants free health care free education free housing free food?

  127. crimson2 says:
    @steinbergfeldwtizcohen

    It’s called a wealth transfer. Maintain low wages. Impose it via mass migration. No democracy or referendum required.
    Elites imposed this on the West in the 60′s and 70′s.

    Immigrants are productive and that production has created a great deal of wealth. It has tended to go to the top and the middle and not to the lower class, true. The best solution is to transfer some wealth back via earned income credits. There’s no reason to throw away extra productive capability (and consumption)–unless your goal is not really economic at all.

  128. I am afraid it is not a refutation of the self selection counter-argument simply to label it absurd. It is by no means clear to me that the college students to whom you refer were not selected for traits other than intelligence (that is, that they were not selected by things like family connections) or that the people who show up at refugee camps are not the most intelligent of their nation. The argument you make implicitly assumes that the nation from whom the refugees are fleeing is a meritocracy. If that were the case, it seems unlikely (or even absurd) that people would be fleeing from it.

  129. crimson2 says:
    @Joseph Hurdle

    These magic negroes must of been recent immigrants from Wakanda!

    “must *have* been”

    Tell me more about that superior intellect…

    • Replies: @pB
    , @Anon
  130. Ryan says:

    CC’s posts always go out of their way to use anything, anything at all except IQ test scores as a measure of IQ. Spelling Bee results before we consider sullying ourselves with the WISC-V.

  131. @obwandiyag

    Well, I’m neither fat nor all that old. But thank you for your valuable input.

    When are we going to see the results of all that soaring black intelligence?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anonymous
  132. @Anonymous Jew

    That’s mighty white of you. When do we start?

  133. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    The mongols killed so many south central Asians on the way to conquer the Middle East that the farms disappeared because there were no farmers or even their animals to preserve the pasture lands by eating tree seedlings

    So south Central Asia went back to forest for centuries until the farmers and their animals increased enough

    There’s a history channel thing about the creative tortures the East Indians came up with 4.000 years ago . One was a guest room. The ceiling rolled back and the real ceiling appeared. It had sharp 3 ft long spikes every couple inches

    The ceiling lowered when the guest was locked in the room. No way to escape so close together the spike. There were many other creative ways to torture and kill. That was the most memorable.

  134. pB says:
    @crimson2

    wait are you telling us that deviations from proper grammar and colloquialisms are signs of low intelligence?

    that is good to know.

  135. Svigor says:

    Yes, black intelligence is troublesome.

    LOL.

  136. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    is ultimately related to notions of materialism

    OMG.

    One note AaronB.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @AaronB
  137. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @crimson2

    Actually, the correct form is musta been or mussa been.

    The public school system stopped teaching grammar 45 years ago because grammar is racist and discriminatory against blacks.

    So the only Americans who know correct grammar are those who are over 65 or private or home schooled.

    Blame it on liberals, responsible for all the ills of the world.

  138. Thorsted says:

    The HBD channel “The Alternative Hypothesis” has a 10.min critical video, “The Gaslight of UK” of the UK data for IQ of ethnic and racial groups used and referred to in the article here. They conflicting with other data from the UK.

  139. Edward says:
    @crimson2

    That isn’t Chisala’s claim, as far as I’m aware. African-American students from the richest families do worse on the SAT than White students from the poorest families, and Chisala accepts this.

    By contrast, in Britain, the reason that Black Africans perform at a similar level or higher than White British students on the GCSE is because of the dramatic underperformance of White British working-class students, as I’ve pointed out in my posts above.

    White British students who aren’t eligible for free school meals (an indicator of poverty) outperform Black African students who aren’t on free school meals, whereas Black African students who are eligible for free school meals do substantially better than White British students who are eligible.

    Moreover, in A-Level examinations taken at 18, White students achieve the top grades at more than double the rate of Black African students. White British students also achieve the top grades (A or higher) at GCSE English and GCSE Maths at a higher rate than Black African students.

    There’s a big push in Britain to get students to get at least a C grade, and Black African students are managing to do this better than working-class White British students. However, they’re not getting the A grades (or higher) at GCSE and A-Level, which is why they are underrepresented relative to their population size at Oxford and Cambridge (and why there were headlines about that this year).

    In other words, something is specifically going wrong with the White working-class in Britain, but only the White working-class. Thus, culture is likely to explain most of the difference in this instance, but not in the instance of African-Americans.

    Black Caribbeans, despite apparently having the same average IQ of Black Africans, do much worse educationally than White British students. Black Africans are overwhelmingly recent immigrants who came here in the 1990s and 2000s, whereas Black Caribbean people came to the UK in the 1940s, 50s and 60s. Black African communities have likely preserved a hardworking culture as a result, at least for now.

    This explanation is bolstered by the fact that, as I pointed out above, the shared environment explains 35% of the variance in GCSE scores, with the g factor accounting for a large but not overwhelming 53.7% of the variance in GCSE ‘Best 8′ scores. The SAT, essentially being an IQ test, will have a very small shared environment component by contrast.

  140. bomag says:
    @crimson2

    I don’t see that at all.

    As noted, it has been mainstreamed and institutionalized: affirmative action; set asides; diversity goals; etc. at corporate and gov’t levels is the water we swim in today.

  141. @iffen

    Drug use and its victims.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  142. MarkinLA says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Could be because you don’t take the same IQ test at 3 as you do at 17.

    We can see something similar in subjects like mathematics. In kindergarten all you can do is learn how to add simple integers. There isn’t much that has to be learned so there isn’t much of an observed difference. When you get to high school you have to broaden the test to include algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and the foundations of calculus. Anybody who spends any time on a university campus notices the dearth of black and Hispanic students in the math building. It is them simply falling behind the others in the ability and desire to keep up when they really aren’t that talented. There are probably a number of such people that could get math degrees but to do so would require well above average time studying to the point it took all the fun out of school.

  143. Agent76 says:

    Feb 2, 2015 Don’t Stay in School

    What I learned in school vs. What I didn’t learn in school. I can’t remember feeling so passionate whilst writing something in ages.

  144. Svigor says:

    Perhaps the Black migration to the Americas took the dullest, but again the majority of the evidence doesn’t support this.

    Said majority being, you know – sub-Saharan Africa.

  145. Anon[184] • Disclaimer says:

    1. This minoritity’s (read: person with an axe to grind) Unz article conclusion statement doesn’t refute the volumes of prior evidence and proofs. If he has an actual argument, he needs to submit it to more a serious place for review and criticism. I predict that he doesn’t feel that his analysis would stand up to actual critique. Which is why he published it here. It is only meant to troll Unz readers, and uses flawed analysis toward that end.

    2. An 8 point difference in the median IQ is ultra-large and would lead to wildly divergent long tail results that would account for large population differences. His attempt to minimize such a difference undercuts his argument and credibility.

    3. The author makes an effort to control for variables in the Black population, but no effort to control for similar variables in the so-called White population. No serious science article would make such a mistake, as it outs his method as biased and thus unable to deliver a reliable conclusion.

    This is the rough equivalent of taking two lots of cars, picking out all of those with scratches in one lot, leaving the other lot whole, and then declaring that the entirety of the first lot is equal or better to the entirety of the second. Its a ridiculous method, on its face. For one, not all so called “White British” are of the same race either, especially as this person’s research would group them. Then we have SES effects, language effects, etc.

    4. Then there is the fact that the author is essentially arguing that the results that we see in society are not the results that we see because, according to his analysis, black people are as smart. So, the vast weight of social dysfunction that we are caused to endure actually isn’t present and where it is present it is so because of…wait for it…racism.

    5. When it comes down to it Chanda…no matter how much breath you or they can muster to make arguments, at the end of the day we perceive the same social results and at the end of the day we don’t want you in the West. You don’t have an argument for that. I only suggest that you yield to that opinion at some point that is soon-enough, STFU for once, and migrate for your own good. At the end of the day, your niggling and ultimately dishonest arguments don’t and won’t matter. If I were you I’d concentrate on something that will ultimately be more fruitful than begging to remain under the White sociopolitical umbrella in the West. Dishonest arguments toward being given this continued tolerance are only going to speed the arrival of the opposite result that you are after.

  146. @crimson2

    When you account for government dependency it’s a little more complicated. For example, I recall a rough calculation that for the US balance sheet, Whites are a net positive $2K per year and Hispanics are a negative $7K based on tax contributions over use of government services. (When you have 4 kids and earn the minimum wage before your back gives out at 45 you’re receiving far more in benefits than you’re paying in).

    In addition, the same economic theory that argues that immigrants benefit the economy also posits that the more an immigrant earns, the more they benefit economy. Ergo, if you’re going to accept a set number of immigrants, accept the highest earning ones first.

    Finally, there’s the African/MENA immigrants in Northern Europe. How much are they contributing to the economy?

    In a vacuum, high-skilled/high-IQ immigrants do benefit the economy, and many prominent American entrepreneurs are high-skilled immigrants or the sons of high-skilled immigrants. Of course, high-skilled immigrants aren’t automatons typing code. There also, more often than not, Democrat-voting, White/Western-hating and leftist self-interested hordes. (I work with them in the Bay Area – they’re genuinely very smart, but think the American Creed is White Supremacist or anachronistic at best. We count several E. Indian PhDs as ‘couple friends’ and they’re all leftist. Every. Last. One.).

    • Replies: @crimson2
  147. @Anonymous Jew

    “However, just to be on the safe side, why don’t we have Africans stay in their home countries. Or better yet, send the ones you already have packing. You can even expel us Jews so long as the Blacks and Browns have to go too.”

    Deal!!!

  148. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    In any case, the most spectacular ‘genocidal’ outbreak of all time would actually be the Mongol ravages of the thirteenth century.

    Pound for pound, nobody beat those guys. Steven Pinker, in his book on historic violence mentions it in these terms:
    “High-throughput massacre was also perfected by mounted hordes from the steppes, such as the Scythians, Huns, Mongols, Turks, Magyars, Tatars, Mughals and Manchus.”

    The Europeans had a pretty bloody streak as well for a couple of centuries, culminating in WW2. Lord help us if Europe ever has a WW3.

    Peace.

  149. Anon[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @RadicalCenter

    As soon as the White man at the same time goes away (to stop oppressing them), integrates (to stop oppressing them), and continuously filters all production excess into Black communities (to stop stealing from them). Of course!

    Wait, I forgot to mention that Blacks all need to get pieces of paper that say that they know stuff (‘Top University”, “Honors Club”, etc) and they are all given 72k per year jobs because of their skin tone. Remember, background checks are racist.

    In summary, you know, as soon as the White man magically grants them all of the hallmarks of capable independence and not a moment before!

  150. Anon[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @Edward

    It sounds like a more informative study would be as to whether the White working class decline has correlated with increased minority migration.

  151. @Edward

    By contrast, in Britain, the reason that Black Africans perform at a similar level or higher than White British students on the GCSE is because of the dramatic underperformance of White British working-class students, as I’ve pointed out in my posts above.
    ….
    In other words, something is specifically going wrong with the White working-class in Britain, but only the White working-class. Thus, culture is likely to explain most of the difference in this instance, but not in the instance of African-Americans.

    All one needs to do is Google image “British Chav”. Dear lord.

    Black Caribbeans, despite apparently having the same average IQ of Black Africans, do much worse educationally than White British students. Black Africans are overwhelmingly recent immigrants who came here in the 1990s and 2000s, whereas Black Caribbean people came to the UK in the 1940s, 50s and 60s. Black African communities have likely preserved a hardworking culture as a result, at least for now.

    In the nurture-nature debate, there’s often a straw man argument accusing the HBD crowd of thinking that everything is genetic. Culture matters, and nobody denies this. I wonder how much better off Black Americans would be if not for their animosity and resentment.

    This evolution of Mexican immigrant generations in the US may be relevant. There’s a cultural – not IQ – regression in the subsequent generations. Essentially, they forget the oppressive poverty of their parents’ homeland and get indoctrinated in the cult of “It’s all Whitey’s fault”. As a result, the 2nd generation looks more like working class Whites (see British Chav, above). Will this eventually happen to African Blacks in Britain?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  152. Truth says:
    @Edward

    By contrast, in Britain, the reason that Black Africans perform at a similar level or higher than White British students on the GCSE is because of the dramatic underperformance of White British working-class students, as I’ve pointed out in my posts above.

    Tomato….toMAHto?

  153. Anon[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @Edward

    There’s a big push in Britain to get students to get at least a C grade, and Black African students are managing to do this better than working-class White British students.

    LOL…here’s no possible way to arrive at a meaningful conclusion in regard to this unless and until you eliminated the possibility of Black grade inflation, and/or lower standards in their schools, in a political environment that puts a lot of obvious pressure on passing Black students. Try again.

  154. AaronB says:
    @iffen

    And again, and again, and again :)

    Accept it, its the master key.

  155. Anon[851] • Disclaimer says:
    @Phille

    “It is pretty obvious that there are Indian jatis with a higher mean IQ than is typical for European ethnic groups. How do we know this? Tail effects. We can look at the tech CEOs in the US right now, we can look at famous physicists, we know about geniuses like Ramanujan or Mir Sultan Khan”.

    Did you go to school or are you just bullshitting? It seems like you are bullshitting.

    Note to everyone here who doesn’t know how to read, critique, ad write research but are pretending like you do: its more than obvious.

    Your observational note on supposedly how you “know that Indian jatis have a higher mean IQ than is typical for European ethnic groups” is beyond ridiculous and silly when looking at even the most obvious uncontrolled variables in your observation.

    First, even without looking at variables, your comparison does not hold up. Do you know how many companies with ultra-smart European CEOs are in the US? Their quantity dwarfs those that have the Indian CEOs that you can recall in your ultra-silly act of confirmation bias. You didn’t bother to use any sort of percentage, and so neither will I. Though, you can refer to India if you like and the Euro numbers will still smoke the Indians.

    Yes, brown people stand out and you remember them. We get it. Why you can’t see what doesn’t stand out to your brain is why you can’t compete in this discussion.

    Second, there is a vast selection bias when looking at the inevitable results from the decades old Indian H1b visa worker pool. In no way shape or form is that representative of a population sample that could account for any type of real bell curve. You are comparing the results that you notice from a highly selective population to a non-selective population. That is fucking retarded, science man.

    • Replies: @Phille
  156. Peasant says:

    All Black African language groups, including those with English as their first language, have much higher than average levels of socio-economic disadvantage.”

    This is all rather vague. Define exactly socio economic disadvantage. It reminds me of a few years ago when the British government was going to define children who did not take two foreign holidays a year as deprived until the media got ahold of it and they had to withdraw the definition lest they become a laughing stock. Quasi government quangos staffed by leftists often make up spurious definitions to advance an egalitarian agenda.

    Ditto the part about the poor blacks mixed in with the rich ones. How many is some?

    There is a very strong self selection bias in African immigration to Europe. It costs many years salary for even a middle class African to pay people smugglers to send them to Europe. We are recieving Africas would be middle class if Africans were capable of maintaining functioning societies.

  157. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    So sad. Can I cure it with the Paleo Diet do you think? Or do I have to wait till my wetware gets modified in the coming cyborg revolution?

    Kidding, kidding, I don’t mean to mock you :) I like you Mr Chieh, even though you’ve gravely disappointed me.

    Don’t use your mighty PUA powers on me.

    Kidding again! I can’t help myself. I hope we’re still friends.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @Daniel Chieh
  158. Peasant says:
    @Johnny Rottenborough

    This is very clever and silva has completely missed your humour.

  159. @Phille

    “Nobody believes this …”

    If you took a world-wide survey then please share it with us, replete with statistical formulae and sampling error.

  160. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Agent76

    The minority and poor schools get about 30 percent more money than White middle class schools

    Aside from IQ, it’s a difference in how the money is spent. The White students are normal IQ and well behaved. The girls aren’t pregnant and mothers

    So the schools can spend money on bands cooking lessons new computers and a computer teacher advanced and remedial math because the White Kids are normal behavior and IQ

    The black schools need security guards roaming the halls because the black and brown kids don’t go to class but roam the halls. Some B&B schools even have guards in the bathrooms.

    B&B schools need smaller class size thus more teachers and teachers aides A class of 40 average lower class welfare White kids is better behaved and easier for 1 teacher to manage than 20 B&B kids with 1 teacher and 2 teacher assistants

    White girls don’t need daycare centers in the schools because they don’t have children. B&B girls need the daycare centers because they have babies and toddlers.

    White schools don’t need hordes of security guards resource office officers 2 teachers aides in every room psychologists counselors specialists conflict resolvers separate rooms where the conflict resolvers, security guards resource officers and the B&B savage Orcs meet to resolve conflicts among the Orcs anger management specialists and rooms where they and security guards teach the angry Orcs to manage their anger metal detectors and wands nurses for pregnant girls and babies a free county health clinic curriculum specialists small classes of 15
    ( small classes are the solution to badly behaved B&Bs) and the hordes of non teachers trying to keep the B&B kids from killing each other and the staff.
    alarm buttons in the classrooms

    Then there’s constant replacement of books furniture etc the kids destroy plus repairing broken windows gauges and holes in walls this and that.

    And of course workman’s compensation disability and early retirement for school staff who can’t work anymore because the continual screeching of the black Orcs causes deafness.

    Substitute teachers are costly. In B&B schools teaching is just torture so the regular teachers take off as much as possible because it’s so dangerous and horrible so there is greater use of substitutes in B&B, especially black schools.

    Teachers have the worst of it because they are with the kids. Friend worked at an all black school in a middle class neighborhood almost no welfare kids. For one horrible year

    The fifth grade drove out 4 regular teachers not subs by Christmas break.

    B&B schools spend money attempting to control the behavior of the Orcs.

    White schools need less money because the White kids behave normally.

    The property taxes Whites. rich, poor and in between pay to the county don’t go to the local city schools. The property taxes go to the state department of education which doles out the taxes EQUALLY to all the schools in the state.

    By federal law all schools in the state receive the same amount of money per student Serrano vs Priest 1966

    SOOOOO all the schools in the state get an equal amount of state money

    THEN the federal government gives tens of billions to B&B schools to pay for the hordes of adult wranglers who keep the Orcs from killing each other and caring for their baby Orcs.

    AND the White schools don’t get the billions of federal money for being B&B poor, dumb and violent . Good behavior and good grades gets the Whites nothing

  161. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    The IQ and competitiveness thing is ultimately related to notions of materialism and progress

    Has to be. Most societies valued intelligence, but they didn’t put all their eggs in that basket; qualities such as bravery, loyalty, piety were also highly valued.

    the Divine Game

    I can only answer as to what our tradition teaches and what I learned from my teachers. That the phenomenal universe is the testing ground; ultimately it is nothing but play and amusement when taken as its own purpose, but is extremely valuable (and quite serious) for the most precious commodity of all – time. Time which is used in accomplishing one’s ultimate purpose – getting closer to the Divine.

    The Sufis said even a moment spent in heedlessness of God is a moment spent in disbelief. I recently read that an average adult checks their cell phone an average of 80 times a day – in my tradition, this is called wuqoof al-qalbi…its focus is simply misdirected.

    Frankly I’m learning quite a bit from the exchanges going on here; both from an academic approach to the subject (glad someone like Mr. Frost is willing to chime in, wish the author would so the same) and from seeing how other people approach it. It seems the natural human aversion to what one considers blasphemy is quite alive and well.

    I was blessed to be qualified for the GATE program in California when I was in grade school and so I was around fairly talented and bright individuals from a young age. I remember there begin a couple of African American kids in there – two very bright girls (one of which was probably the strongest in the class – if I recall, she and this blonde-haired kid were the top dogs and everyone knew it). I remember discussing the topic of my intelligence with my mother a while back and she (like any solid Pakistani mother should) made sure I knew my place by stating something along the lines of; “We’ll see if you were intelligent if you make it to paradise.”

    Mark my words and write them in stone; intelligence is a blessing and those who have been gifted with it above others will be asked about what they did with the trust they were given – and one better have a good answer.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @epochehusserl
  162. @crimson2

    Productive. Hhhm. Boilerplate answer.
    By artificially suppressing wages you transfer 50 years of income. That’s a wealth transfer. Why was it done is the big lie of the century.
    I’m not going to waste time explaining or arguing. It’s pretty clear Hollywood was right and blax are magic, Jews are wonderful, immigrants enrich us,etc ad nauseum.
    Cultural marxist crap. Go sell it elsewhere.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  163. Alfred says:

    Any discussion about intelligence and African Blacks is useless unless it is done on a tribe by tribe basis.

    It is pretty obvious that the smarter tribes sent people from the less smart tribes to Brazil, the Caribbean and the USA. The purchasers of these unfortunates did not need smart labour.

    The fact that the Igbos are a lot smarter than many other tribes in Nigeria is incontestable. They are dominant in carrying on business in Japan and China with Nigeria. Some call them the “Black Jews”.

    In the UK, you will find that many of the successful Black pimps are from Ghana – same principle.

  164. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Thank you Talha for your considered reply. I am always interested in the whole Sufi/Islam angle.

    I like your moms reply :)

    I am exploring a different kind of spirituality lately – more like the original Zen that arose in China, which is a different path than the striving path. It has different assumptions and a different world view, and yet I suspect underneath it isn’t so radically different. But then that’s just what I would suspect, isn’t it :)

    I have always been attracted to Taoism and its wu wei. There is something really profound there. I am trying to see how it relates to and fits in with the striving paths. We shall see as I continue my explorations.

    I have known several bright blacks, and far too many retarded Jews – and my life has impressed upon me too strongly and greatly the vital importance of effort and motivation, values and priorities, as primary factors in any kind of success at all to come to any superficial and easy conclusions about racial differences.

    I also am sensitive to the concept of change – it is after rather mysterious that German tribes and Ghetto dwelling Jews should in about 1,000 years have developed such strangely increased intelligence, and in the space of a 100 years, begin a precipitous decline (Jews more recently, but as Unz shows, it’s happening to them).

    Perhaps the World Spirit has now settled on blacks, and they are undergoing some kind of transformation.

    Who knows?

    • Replies: @iffen
  165. Chuck says:

    It is not just “blacks in the US”.

    You see the same patterns in Canada, Colombia, Brazil, throughout the West Indies, South Africa, and the Netherlands.This holds for mean differences and admixture studies over 100 years for which I have data. Rather than a US versus rest phenomenon, it is a recent African diaspora versus legacy (i.e., to the Americas) one.

    Thus, the hereditarian concordant pattern holds also for Black West Indian immigrants to England and Wales, to the US, and to Canada. This situation makes “migrant selection” (positive in the case of recent diaspora, negative in the case of past) a plausible partial account. Chanda attempts to dismiss positive selection, saying:

    “For those who may be tempted to think that these could just be the children of wealthy Africans, Strand also reports that all the Black African groups, including those born in the UK who speak English first (EF), are actually much poorer than the average White”

    The question is though: Were the migrant families richer than the source population — i.e., were they selected relative to natives who stayed behind? All data indicates that they generally are/were.

    That said, having looked at this issue in much more detail then Lynn, Thompson, etc., I agree with Chanda that the UK results are “troubling” for — though, I would say, “curious” from — a hereditarian perspective and are, more generally, interesting.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  166. Peasant says:
    @Edward

    ‘The University of Oxford, among others, puts heavy weight on GCSEs.’

    Forgive me but no. GCSE’s are regarded as pretty worthless and speaking from experience they are subject to massive grade inflation and a decline in standards. Not for nothing has a* at GCSE been implemented. Private schools in the UK actually encourage students to take international baccalaureate exams as these are far more rigorous and even still A levels count when applying to university.

    The only way people could get into Oxford university with excellent GCSE results and the standard 4 A levels is through clearing. I have known people with 6 a levels in hard subjects like advanced math and physics to not even be considered by Oxford university.

    The GCSE as an exam is a joke. The data here presented is vague and one of the central claims is that all blacks have lower ses than other groups. This smells to me like racism is everywhere lets make excuses. Black African immigration to England is the very definition of self selection amongst a population group. Not only do they have to make it to the European mainland they also have to cross the channel to Britain.

    Part of the author’s sleight of hand was using a relatively worthless test and proclaiming that this means blacks are as smart as Whites. i have seen this before on UNZ and other places and it is not subtle.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
    , @Edward
  167. Philip Owen says: • Website

    My experience with African migration is with Zambia.

    On the one hand, my wife is building her 5th school in the country side around Monze. There is a huge demand for education. The first school was built for 250 pupils. 900 are attending at present, 3 shifts plus adult classes. It is very clear that rural and even peri-urban people think differently from the European mainstream. It is not clear that the market women can even count change.

    On the other hand, I have met Zambians in the UK who finished Master’s degrees before they were 20. I am working with two business teams, one with an improved mobile money transmission system to challenge M-PESA the Kenyan system sweeping the world. and one with novel ideas for finance packages for village level elecrification with solar panels. These are some of the smartest people I’ve met. (My speciality is Russia, the phone team is proposing to use Russian ATM’s). I contend that average IQ in Zambia is presently very unequal. It will take decades of Flynn effect for the children in rural districts of Monze to have a similar IQ. The lack of abstract thinking, poor nutrition, difficult access to education, lack of books or computers (Donations accepted for sending out Raspberry Pi’s and screens) all push down the ability to score in IQ tests and yet, we also see a team proposing a world class challenge in software development against a world class player, also African. In the case of Zambia, there is definitely huge selection bias involved in who gets to the UK. I spoke to a diaspora meeting last year.All bright, clever people with a positive attitude. The big joke was to leave their English sense of humour at the airport when they went home. Similarly for Zimbabwe. The refugees fleeing Mugabe were educated people. The security guard at my Leisure Cente had a previous life as a head teacher. In these circustances of hugely uneven development generalizations about IQ are toough to make.

    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @Talha
  168. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    a different kind of spirituality lately

    A different kind? LOL

    Perhaps the World Spirit

    3:58 · HD
    Norman Greenbaum – Spirit in the Sky (PSK Remastered)

    [MORE]

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=spirit+in+the+sky&filters=ufn%3a%22norman+greenbaum+spirit+in+the+sky%22+sid%3a%22d6ba7afd-8356-5303-c0e9-d96fbf066f5e%22&form=EDGNTT&qs=MB&cvid=a67c563ca0df44039c7c34d6269d3585&cc=US&setlang=en-US&elv=AY3%21uAY7tbNNZGZ2yiGNjfPBVv0SlGbQqEPSGMxqwNM8QLFL*LcKkRzsvZR0zlMCpE48OueoatljvymrM%217SysIF*gDuSzhzjAaeFAcEiQ5F

    Lyrics
    When I die and
    They lay me to rest
    Gonna go to the place
    That’s the best
    When I lay me down to die
    Goin’ up to the spirit in the sky
    Goin’ up to the spirit in the sky
    That’s where I’m gonna go
    When I die
    When I die and they
    Lay me to rest
    I’m gonna go to the place
    That’s the best
    Prepare yourself
    You know it’s a must
    Gotta have a friend in Jesus
    So you know that
    When you die
    You’re gonna go to
    The spirit in the sky
    Gonna go to the spirit in the sky
    That’s where you’re gonna go
    When you die
    When you die and
    They lay you to rest
    You’re gonna go to
    The place that’s the best
    Never been a sinner
    He never sinned
    I got a friend in Jesus
    So you know that
    When I die
    He’s gonna set me up
    With the spirit in the sky
    Set me up with
    The spirit in the sky
    That’s where I’m gonna
    Go when I die
    When I die and they
    Lay me to rest
    I’m gonna go to the place
    That’s the best
    I’m gonna go to the place
    That’s the best
    I’m gonna go to the place
    That’s the best

  169. iffen says:
    @Philip Owen

    An American tourist goes into a bar and overhears three stout ladies talking. He says, “Excuse me ladies, are you from Scotland?” The reply, “Wales, you idiot!” “Oh, I am sorry, are you whales from Scotland?”

  170. Alfa158 says:
    @Thomm

    Allow me to explain the origin of the word. It is an amalgam of “White” and “Nigger”, hence Wigger. It refers to White people who wish they were Black and emulate the dysfunctional culture of Blacks. No White Nationalist would ever emulate Black culture and therefore no one calls them Wiggers except people like yourself who don’t understand the meaning of the word.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  171. crimson2 says:
    @Edward

    Thus, culture is likely to explain most of the difference in this instance, but not in the instance of African-Americans.

    Why not? Seems like you are on board for environment affecting performance on tests–but then you abandon it when it comes to black students in America. This is especially odd since you don’t appear to have any idea what is affecting the white working class in Britain.

    • Replies: @Edward
  172. gregor says:

    1) Where is the link to the actual report/data? Is this all of Britain? Public and private schools?

    2) How g-loaded is this measure? Are there any restriction of range issues? Girls are not a quarter of a standard deviation smarter than boys, so right there …

    3) Assuming for sake of argument that black and white IQs are indeed equal in Britain, we still can’t assume that African immigrants in Britain are representative of Africa in general. I can tell you right now that here in the US, black immigrants are intellectually far superior to our native blacks. Think Obama vs. Congressional Black Caucus. This article dismisses the selection issue without offering anything convincing.

    4) Regarding falsifiability, it is the equality crowd that has a non-falsifiable premise! They assert axiomatically that blacks and whites are equally intelligent. Empirical evidence to the contrary is dismissed out of hand with the assumption that such evidence is either the result of biased measurement or inadequate societal (read: white) investment in blacks. Hence, it is argued that the potential intelligence of blacks is much higher than their observed intelligence. But, pray tell, how would you disprove the absence of this unrealized potential? Even if the scores stay the same for another fifty years, they will still be insisting upon the existence of a vast untapped reservoir of black intellectual prowess.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  173. @szopen

    Hereditarian position is that some proportion of differences between people and populations is due to the hereditary factors. There is and AFAIK never was any serious hereditarian claiming there is all due to the genes.

    ‘Pure’ hereditarian was a bad choice of words on my part. ‘Strong’ hereditarian would have been a better term – i.e., folks who think that genetic differences in cognitive potential are sufficiently powerful that they cannot be overcome by environmental intervention.

    I am perfectly comfortable with the idea that different types of humans have different physical and mental characteristics (‘mental’ includes both cognitive and psychological).

    The key thing is whether or not those differences at the median can be meaningfully changed by intervention.

    At the extremes, it’s a no brainer: you can’t “cross the streams” with performance outliers.

    So the Kalenji[n] have pretty much cornered the market on sub-2:10 marathons, and it’s been 38 years since a white man won the Olympic 100m (and arguably that was only because the US team boycotted the Moscow Olympics). 1980 was also the last time a white man won the 400m hurdles… Caucasians have almost no chance in any men’s track event (apart from the 800m).

    By the same token, there are very few champion downhill skiers who do not hail from Austria, Switzerland or Germany (I only count proper downhill – not faggy GS or Super-G where even Americans are competitive)… and Norway is vastly over-represented in team biathlon (and Norway, Finland and Sweden dominate Nordic skiing – hint’s in the name I guess).

    Horses for courses, in other words.

    I absolutely accept that it’s extremely unlikely that any environmental ‘intervention’ could turn Eliud Kipchoge into Hermann Meier, or vice versa – but it’s also extremely unlikely that environmental intervention could enable Meier to switch sports with Petter Northug.

    But that’s at the extreme ends of various spectra, involving a bunch of body systems (including the brain); it’s assessing whether an outlier in one field can be ‘tweaked’ to another field and remain an outlier (in the same direction… after all, it would be easy to take Meier and turn him into a shit marathoner – just put him in running kit).

    It makes as little sense to expect those ‘crossovers’ to work: in the same vein, it make no sense to expect a virtuoso violinist to be able to ‘cross over’ to become a biochemist at the same approximate ordinal ranking in the new field. Or a physicist to economist, or an engineer to violinist, or a mathematician to surgeon (where all these people are 2.5σ above the median in their original fields).

    Now let’s think about whether or not the gaps in population-wide metrics are small enough to be more amenable to policy intervention; for example, whether or not the median black American could, by environmental change, be ‘dragged up’ to the same cognitive level as the median American white person.

    Frankly, that’s not a big challenge (later on we’ll see some evidence that it’s already happening: there’s some evidence that the gap is half-closed already, despite some environmental pressures working solidly against the trend).

    Most people who even think about these sorts of things, have a significant upward bias in their estimate of the cognitive competency of the median white person (IQ 100).

    It’s a form of ‘anchoring’ – where your expectation of a variable (e.g., cognitive ability) is conditioned by your own environment. Most ‘bright’ people have little to no experience of groups of humans anywhere near median IQ: their social group is made up of people 1-2σ above the median; their colleagues likewise.

    So if you ask a bright person what sort of mental tasks can be expected from a person with an IQ of 100, their guess will be too high. The guess ‘accurately calculating percentages in one’s head‘ is way too high; doing mental arithmetic is too high. (See PIAAC[1]).

    It’s the same with physical stuff: ask a really fit colleague to guess how many pushups the median adult male can do, and they’ll think they’re low-balling by saying 10. The correct answer is almost certainly zero. Or if they’re a competitive 5k runner, ask them what the median adult male’s time for a 1.5mi (2.4km) run would be… they’ll say 18 minutes (about 8-10 minutes slower than themselves): half an hour would be a better guess (and probably still too low).

    The issue is that their estimate ignores completely-untrained individuals, which is the overwhelming majority of the population in all fields of endeavour.

    If you look at the PIAAC study[1], you will see that the median adult in the US has the cognitive ‘chops’ of a dim 13-15 year old. The sample size for PIAAC is large enough that the sample can be assumed to have population characteristics (i.e, an IQ of 100).

    The NAEP Gap Has Halved

    There has already been a significant closing of racial ‘score gaps’ since the 70s (from 15-20% across the board in both math and reading, to 10%, between 1970 and 2004).

    To consider why, think of the ‘negative interventions’ that existed prior to the late 60s, and the suppressive effect that would have had on kids who were 13-17 in 1970.

    It’s hard to properly get a mental frame of reference for what life was like for a 17 year old black kid in 1970, but it doesn’t take that much imagination – given that it was less barely 3 years after Loving v Virginia (388 US 1 [1967]). The 17 year olds in 1970 grew up in an environment of barely-concealed institutional racism, and significant social unrest that resulted from attempts to dismantle some racist elements.

    Now consider that these race gaps have closed despite large increases in the proportion of single-parent (usually single-mother) households in black communities; there has been an increase in single-parent white households, but not proportionally so. This is partly due to the ‘New Jim Crow’ (the “War On Some [Non-Pharma] Drugs” has a very – ahem – ‘brown incarceration tilt’ for like-for-like offences), but it’s also due to a general reduciton of social disapproval of ‘broken’ homes, and an increased access to transfer payments for single mothers.

    But the point is: NAEP achievement gaps have halved in a little over a generation, and happened as a result of black performance rising at a faster rate than white. (Those gap-reductions are not apparent in SAT scores, where there has been little to no change since 1995).

    Arguably, SAT is ‘more’ important than NAEP benchmarks, however such progress as there is, should be acknowledged.

    Plus, the institutional racism is not really ‘over’: it’ll be another 20 years before no young black man faces half a lifetime in jail for possession of weed (when a white guy would face no jail time, even now).

    (Don’t even try to argue that it’s their own fault for “breaking the law”: no man has an obligation to obey demonstrably unjustifiable laws that are enforced capriciously and punished asymmetrically based on race).

    Just for fun, here’s the PIAAC stuff for those interested in data. The median adult in the US is a schlub (the same is true for most OECD countries).

    OECD PIAAC Publications Repository

    Key Documents:

    OECD (2013), OECD Skills Outlook 2013: First Results from the Survey Of Adults Skills
    pp63-67 give an overview of what adults can do at each of the five assessed literacy levels;
    pp75-78 do the same for numeracy;
    pp 87-90 do likewise for problem-solving.

    OECD The Survey of Adult Skills: Reader’s Companion, Second Edition

    Rammstedt et al (2013) PIAAC 2012: Overview of the Main Results
    p5 gives the mapping from raw test scores to the 5 assessment levels;
    p7-8 give examples of test criteria for the different levels
    p9 gives the median score/PIAAC level for each OECD country.

    • Replies: @Chuck
    , @gregor
  174. @AaronB

    A zombie, ugly, robotic and stupid chink…

    japaneses are thousand times better than that big trash called chaina, it’s just like compare East with West Germany. And this sub-human even is petulant enough to believe he is ”superior”, huahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahuahua

    evidence required…

  175. crimson2 says:
    @steinbergfeldwtizcohen

    It’s pretty clear Hollywood was right and blax are magic, Jews are wonderful, immigrants enrich us,etc ad nauseum.

    Yeah, I knew the economic argument was bullshit. It’s racial animus all the way down at Unz.

  176. Anon[309] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Frost

    Can’t believe that’s Boas’s actual words :)…

  177. crimson2 says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    In addition, the same economic theory that argues that immigrants benefit the economy also posits that the more an immigrant earns, the more they benefit economy. Ergo, if you’re going to accept a set number of immigrants, accept the highest earning ones first.

    There’s no reason to artificially set a number of immigrants. You can take the highly-skilled and the low-skilled alike. Low skilled are pretty important because native workers won’t move to where the jobs are.

    We count several E. Indian PhDs as ‘couple friends’ and they’re all leftist. Every. Last. One.

    You say this like it’s a bad thing :)

    But actually you touch on a rational reason to want to exclude immigrants–political lean. The anti-immigration side really missed the boat by not offering some sort of guest-worker compromise. The illegal immigrants here today will either get amnesty or just have kids who are full American citizens. The left wins the long game on this and it’s not going to be particularly close.

  178. @obwandiyag

    First, old fat white John Birch society member who thinks he has a line on the pulse of the nation denies he’s old and fat. They all do.

    Then he changes the subject because he cannot deal with the absolute truth of my infinite laughter at his imbecility. They all do.

    An actually funny story. Phil Donahue has a panel on his show on the topic of women. One of the panelists says, “Women always personalize.”

    “I DO NOT!” a woman stands up and screams from the audience.

    Proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that our old fat white John Bircher is a woman.

  179. I like all the overlong answers hacking away at the pseud0-scientific jargon.

    And I hate those exactly precisely perfectly accurate cartoons of how white Frenchmen really are.

  180. Talha says:
    @Philip Owen

    Thank you for the excellent comment and insights.

    I’ve got a soft spot for Zambia; it’s where we Naqshbandis of Indo-Pak-Bengali descent get together for Sufi gatherings to avoid the politics that prevent Indians or Pakistanis from crossing the border.

    Peace.

  181. anarchyst says:
    @Chuck

    One can easily see why there are marked differences in abilities between African blacks and those who were brought to the “New World” as slaves if one is not afraid to mention “the elephant in the room”.
    The slaves who were brought to the New World were not the “best and brightest”, but, in most cases were the losers in the various internecine wars that were rampant throughout the Africa continent.
    In most cases, the slaves were low-IQ slackers, dullards, ne-er-do-wells, and criminals that the various village chiefs wanted to get (and be) rid of. What better way to get rid of your undesirables than to ship them to the New World, never to be seen again.
    Our present-day problems with blacks are due to most of them being the descendants of these marginal individuals.
    Many blacks in Africa value education highly, unlike American blacks. In fact, African blacks would give their “eyeteeth” to get the educational opportunities that are available, but wasted on American blacks, who consider excelling in education to be “acting white”, and who degrade those blacks who want to get a good education.

  182. @AaronB

    I just saved a little gecko that was trapped inside the house, something that took probably far too much effort between the cats looking to make it into food and the baby demanding attention. The ultimate solution was a bit tricky – its not really like you can chase it outdoors, since it has a mind of its own and its not as dumb as to fall into obvious traps.

    We were able to get it under a little container but it slipped out from gaps in the tile. At this point, my wife was thinking to giving up and letting it become cat food, but I was able to get it under the container again, and then slip paper beneath to form a stiff floor so he couldn’t escape. But when lifting it, the wrinkles in the paper let it get away.

    So we did it a third time, this time with cardboard beneath to prevent wrinkling. We were able to contain it, and eventually free it.

    All of this was “material” and it induced “anxiety.” It was quite purposeless, and perhaps even unnatural. But I found it rewarding, and am quite glad to do some good for a small creature that is within my power, even if it might be easier to be idle.

  183. Chuck says:
    @Kratoklastes

    “The NAEP Gap Has Halved”

    The race gaps in the US always keep halving, but yet end up being roughly 1 +- .2SD.

    For example grade 12, 2015 NAEP:
    math: White 160 SD 32, Black 130 SD 31 = .97 SD
    reading: White 295 SD 39, Black 266 SD 38 = .74 SD
    m+r average = .86 SD

    In comparison, the average NAEP gap was about 1 SD in the 1960s, based on the pilot test results.

  184. @Talha

    ‘…Do the Brits still talk about how Lord Kitchener used the Mahdi of Sudan’s skull as a souvenir on his desk? I believe it was a paper weight of sorts. I guess it’s preferable to him using it as a goblet…’

    If a black tribal leader did this, it wouldn’t excite comment. Chief’s huts lined with skulls were routine.

    So the point would seem to be that barbarity on the part of a European is more or less equivalent to normalcy for a black African. Note that even today, the more…flamboyant…black leaders literally drink the blood of their enemies, etc.

    We’re trapped in this paradigm that all men are created equal, and — blacks excepted — that’s more or less so. There are differences, but what you lose on the straightaways, you gain back on the curves, so to speak.

    Except for blacks. Whoever dreamed up ‘all men are created equal’ hadn’t met blacks. They are inferior.

    • Replies: @Talha
  185. Meanwhile, from another source…

    ‘We, few of the Black students here at Pomona College and the Claremont Colleges… Though this institution as well as many others including this entire country, have been founded upon the oppression and degradation of marginalized bodies, it has a liability to protect the students that it serves…. The notion of discourse, when it comes to discussions about experiences and identities, deters the ‘Columbusing’ of established realities and truths [coded as ‘intellectual inquiry’] that the institution promotes…’

    You can, of course, continue to insist blacks are the intellectual equivalent of other racial groups. You can insist on anything. You can insist global warming isn’t happening, or that Sandy Hook was staged, or that the Holocaust didn’t happen. It can’t be prevented.

    However, as a group, blacks are spectacularly stupid. Global warming is happening, the Holocaust did occur, Australia exists, and blacks are stupid. These are facts.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Wally
    , @crimson2
    , @Okechukwu
  186. @gate666

    ‘…great article but i doubt you are going to change the opinion of the altright…’

    It’s not a great article. It’s exactly the sort of ponderous, jargon-riddled, intentional obscurantism that I learned long ago not to waste my time analyzing.

    If someone is telling the truth, they can reduce their point to crystalline clarity. If they’re being obscure, and offering up ‘evidence’ that doesn’t even clearly support their point, it’s because they’re lying — if not to themselves, then to you.

    I went through this long ago. An hour of careful analysis would reduce this all to pure bullshit — but you’ll have to pay me. Sixty dollars — in advance. Make that one hundred. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

  187. Talha says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    All of this was “material” and it induced “anxiety.” It was quite purposeless, and perhaps even unnatural.

    Why? You don’t think that lizard will bear witness to your kindness to its Lord?

    Don’t worry, the translator will explain in the middle with English:

    Nothing of virtue is purposeless.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @AaronB
  188. @gregor

    ‘Think Obama vs. Congressional Black Caucus. This article dismisses the selection issue without offering anything convincing.’

    Well, Obama is only half-black. This is actually one of the better arguments against the notion that blacks are intellectually equal to other racial groups.

    If they were equal, one would expect to see full-blacks and mulattos and quadroons scattered about in society’s intellectual heirarchy more or less in proportion to their numbers.

    That’s not at all what happens. Clarence Thomas is an anomaly. Outside athletics, successful ‘blacks’ are almost invariably quadroons and octoroons and mulattos: Obama, Susan Rice, Eric Holder, Kamala Harris, et al. Look at your Congressional ‘Black’ Caucus. It’s all mulattos and quadroons.

    This is even true in ordinary life. Go to — say — Oakland. In integrated neighborhoods, your ‘blacks’ will be disproportionately light-skinned and relatively human in appearance. Head down into the hood, and you’ll see full-on black, ape-like creatures shambling at random across intersections.

    That’s the way it is. The notion that blacks are intellectually equal to other racial groups is just about as reasonable as insisting Chinese are just as good potential material for the offensive line as anyone else.

    It really is that obvious. And the only reason I don’t say it more often is that I get tired of repeating the obvious.

  189. it’s voodoo I tell … voodoo.
    It’s actually not surprising. Black Africans have not been subjected to racial repression like the shvartze have, here in the jewnited snakes.

  190. @Talha

    Mark my words and write them in stone; intelligence is a blessing and those who have been gifted with it above others will be asked about what they did with the trust they were given – and one better have a good answer.
    ————————–
    And look at what our intellectual elites do: rationalize victimhood and promote immorality.

    • Replies: @Talha
  191. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Of course you did. And God bless you for saving the little beast. Compassion is a spontaneous feeling that arises when one feels connected to the whole.

    There are two kinds of actions.

    Those that are intrinsically satisfying – and those that are for the sake of a future satisfaction (we hope).

    The first is play, the second is work.

    Your saving the wee little beastie was play – an intrinsically satisfying activity, and, I hope, undertaken with a properly lighthearted attitude. Which is perfectly compatible with expending the necessary effort. It was recreation for you. I trust you did not do it to gain merit in heaven. That would be work.

    Purpose is by definition a “for the sake of” concept – the more perfect you are, the less purpose you have.

    The less purpose you have, the more free you are to engage in intrinsically satisfying behavior. Play.

    Both work and play are necessary for humans – because we are limited creatures. Only a God – who has no needs – can engage solely in play – intrinsically satisfying behavior.

    When do we feel most limited and inadequate? When we see ourselves as individuals cut off from the whole.

    A society composed of such people will privilege work and purpose – because cut off from the whole, need and inadequacy are its basic feelings, and it has a long path to travel to become whole again. Or so it feels.

    In fact, the more it works, the further the goal of wholeness recedes, because activity “for the sake of” perpetuates the stense of being cut off the whole.

    It is in a catch-22, and goes insane. Progress – happiness located in the future – is its flag. It is like a hamster on a wheel.

    Modern society.

    A society that cultivates a feeling of everyone being part of the whole will be less defined by need and inadequacy, and oriented away from purpose and work and towards intrinsically satisfying activity – play. It already feels whole.

    How does one feel connected to the whole and not a mere individual fragment? By not seeing objects – including ourselves – as distinct entities. But from the material perspective, we only see a world of distinct entities.

    So we must question if this perspective – a world of individual entities – is correct. Logical reflection, an analysis of the categories of thinking and processing data, shows us the world cannot be composed of the individual entities we perceive.

    Materialism is the doctrine that the world is composed of the distinct physical entities we perceive – an interdependent world could not be a materialistic world, but would be a world in which the distinct entities we see are not actually distinct – but rather their distinctiveness, what defines them against other objects, is an illusion. Of course, they are real – their stature as distinct entities is what is an illusion.

    Everything we see is real – but the way we see it is an illusion.

    Again, the defining attribute of a material object is its distinctness from other objects – it is a distinct thing by virtue of not being something else.

    It is in this sense that materialism is wrong. Material entities, which are by definition individual, don’t exist. There is only the whole. And it is mysterious – can not be conceived. Only felt.

    So It is not idleness I advocate – just not striving. Since you are the whole, there is nothing to strive for. There is only intrinsically satisfying activity left. And the rather small amounts of work needed to maintain life.

    Material progress is a dream – the future happiness you expect is your birthright. Grasping after it in some future will make it recede from your grasp.

    Traditional societies understood this. Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, all understand this.

    The modern world lost the vision – and is on a treadmill, grasping after a future that cannot come. Which is why Progress must be infinite. Because the sense of inadequacy is infinite once one sees oneself is anything less than the Whole. But infinite Progress is infinite deferred satisfaction, thus infinite dissatisfaction.

    Like there is any hope you’ll really get any of this, or any one will :)

    Well, the offering is made….

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  192. @Talha

    Quite besides the point.

    Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Tyrion 2
  193. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Interesting, I am evolving a radically opposite vision from you – I even suggest Chieh did not save the lizard so he could gain merit! – yet I suspect these differences may be more surface than deep.

    • Replies: @Talha
  194. @nickels

    ‘Okay, so who is going to write the next article on how the Germanic peoples are the best basketball players?’

    If it was also ideologically imperative that this be so, I’m sure the articles would appear.

  195. Short answer:

    I cannot think of a single proposition that the dominant society has held about whites that isn’t eventually demonstrated to be false.

    look t’is much ado about not much. it is not as if the dominant society as a whole have high IQ’s whatever standard is in fashion today. But no society requires a high IQ in order to function effectively.

    guys with high supposedly created the vaccine for polio. They also introduced the world to HIV — and no the african source tale of its origination from Kinshasa makes no sense, given that that no cases of HIV related illnesses existed at the supposed time —-

    uhhh no, venereal disease — won’t cut it. The first unique such symptoms 1959 —

  196. @Steve in Greensboro

    Nice try. How about Not wanting it to be will not sweep it under the rug?

  197. @AaronB

    I quite understand the perspective. I just reject it because it ultimately not any different from the notion that being drunk and high all of the time is the ideal state, dressed up in pretty notions of monism. There’s no special evidence that it is “enlightenment” as opposed to suppression(possibly damage) to the default mode network of the brain, which can be replicated chemically through psychedelic use.

    I’m glad it works for it. It need not be universal.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  198. Thomm says:
    @Alfa158

    What you describe was the correct definition until 1994 or so. After that (largely due to the film, Pulp Fiction, and the ‘Gold Watch’ segment within in), the definition changed to :

    A white person who behaves like blacks despite disliking blacks. More specifically :

    i) Low IQ
    ii) Low economic productivity.
    iii) Seeing race in EVERYTHING.
    iv) Preference for female obesity.

    Hence, white trashionalists are ‘Wiggers’.

    It is not 1993 anymore, muchacho. Get with it.

    • Replies: @CrazedIndiot
  199. Talha says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Quite besides the point.

    Not really; my point is only irrelevant if the first case in your quote is false.

    Live a good life.

    Reminds me of Pascal’s wager – a Chinese version.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  200. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    And that’s OK – the question really comes down to first principles…the details (and congruence or lack there of) simply follow naturally.

    If one believes in a Day of Judgement and afterlife – as I do – then what I posted has coherence, otherwise…epic fail.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  201. @Peasant

    The GCSE is not a good metric for several reasons. In the US, we use the same exam to test ability, either the SAT or ACT. With the exception of Math and English, the GCSE is just a hodgepodge of subjects and not all are academic subjects. There are GCSE exams for photography, art, drama, dance, and physical education.

    The mean scores Chanda used for various ethnic groups only consist of students who took eight or more GCSE. Many students, low-achievers in particular, do not take that many exams. Most British medical schools will consider your application if you have just six GCSEs.

    https://www.themedicportal.com/application-guide/choosing-a-medical-school/gcse-requirements-for-medicine/

    Here are findings from the 2015 PISA Exam:

    In contrast to performance in GCSE examinations, White pupils in England obtain science scores around 40 points (more than a year of schooling) above their Black and Asian peers. Similar results hold in reading (25 points) and mathematics (30 points) with these differences between White and Black and Asian pupils statistically significant in each domain. Conversely, average scores are similar for pupils of White, Other and Mixed ethnicity, and do not ever reach statistical significance – further details are provided in Figure 6.6.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/574925/PISA-2015_England_Report.pdf

    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
    , @Jm8
    , @Jm8
  202. @crimson2

    The anti-immigration side really missed the boat by not offering some sort of guest-worker compromise. The illegal immigrants here today will either get amnesty or just have kids who are full American citizens. The left wins the long game on this and it’s not going to be particularly close.

    It’s funny how people ignore the large-scale population transfers that occurred at the end of WWI and WWII.

    They will happen again.

  203. @Daniel Chieh

    You don’t need to save the gecko, it can find its way out of the house on its own if you leave a window open. It came in to eat insects you don’t like, geckos are good, and very beautiful, cats can’t get them cause geckos can walk on walls and even ceilings. In New Orleans I had a Cuban Gecko in my apartment for a bit, loved it, beautiful markings, I liked to watch it walk on the ceiling, not native to Louisiana but they come in with boxes of fruit from Central America. Once saw a giant green parrot flying from tree to tree cawing in downtown New Orleans. Gecko is your friend.

  204. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    In the end it’s a choice we each must make, based on our experience and insight.

    I am merely offering an alternative to those who find the modern notion of progress inadequate.

    I’m not really trying to force and petsuade, so take my polemics lightly. They are meant for those who want them, and everything is a foil to help flesh out the ideas.

    And maybe drink a bit of that dreaded alcohol – ultimate happiness may lie at the end of a process of infinite striving, but as one lives ones life in perpetual anticipation and hope one can afford to have an immediate pleasure or two :)

    In the meantime I am content to share the world with the unfortunate strivers, provided they don’t try and dragoon me into their system too much.

  205. gregor says:
    @Kratoklastes

    …folks who think that genetic differences in cognitive potential are sufficiently powerful that they cannot be overcome by environmental intervention.

    The key thing is whether or not those differences at the median can be meaningfully changed by intervention.

    I don’t think I agree with this framing. What is this “intervention” and who is providing it? In my mind, if a person or group requires an extraordinary amount of “intervention,” that is pretty much just another way of calling them dumb.

    And at the group level, if a group is dependent on some other group to provide resources and design clever interventions, their performance in that context is inflated in the sense that it requires an “environment” that they themselves are incapable of maintaining, much less creating in the first place.

  206. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Certainly what you posted has coherence. There is no question of that.

    But as you know, I regard all language is symbols for an indescribable reality.

    And I am wondering if there is any relation between symbols we’ve chosen, or are we genuinely different on this. We may well be. I’m just not sure yet.

    • Replies: @Talha
  207. gregor says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Slowly, the evidence that genetics played a part became overwhelming.

    It’s pretty funny when you think about it. Race is defined by ancestry and is fundamentally, inescapably genetic. And yet everyone somehow got trained to not associate the two! I think the ancients actually had a better intuitive understanding of it than most modern people do. You really gotta hand it to the Jews on that one.

  208. utu says:

    What is Best 8 score?

  209. I didn’t bother to read the article — skimmed a bit — but I have never heard an explanation of how we give meaningful IQ tests to subjects from different cultures. The IQ tests I have taken always included questions depending on verbal knowledge. If you eliminate these questions you skew the test in favor of spatial and mathematical ability. Asian and African languages are so different from English that I am very skeptical of judgments regarding the average IQ among native Chinese or tribal Africans. Moreover, immigrants might be more intelligent or less intelligent than average members of the societies they come from, depending on the historical circumstances causing them to emigrate. I wonder if the theorists have addressed these obvious issues.

  210. Logan says:
    @Anon

    Caracole actually refers to a cavalry tactic using pistols. What you are referring to is volley fire by infantry.

  211. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    All one needs to do is Google image “British Chav”. Dear lord

    White working class boys are treated like sh*t by the wider culture, often by their teachers and have an oppositional attitude to that which despises them.

    They also grow up in peripheral places where schools can’t recruit staff and the only desk jobs are with government, which celebrates discriminating against them.

    It is akin to blacks in 60s America but without the wider society trying to impart positive values and where those white working class boys have been utterly abandoned by their elite.

    Elements of the Conservative party have been trying to change this but it isn’t really possible when teachers, social workers and entertainment all seem to loathe these kids.

    All that said, I hope you can understand why I find your use of the word “chav” both crude and ignorant. Not that you could have known!

  212. @crimson2

    “I’d bet that you would fail miserably.”

    Yup, me too. Africa and Africans are so dysfunctional that they would frustrate the noblest efforts of even the most deep-pocketed, starry-eyed empathizer. Fact is, history has demonstrated that real change for the good has been brought to Africa not by soft-hearted dreamers, but by hard-minded, practical, can-do types who have neither the time nor energy to waste on liberal nostrums.

  213. songbird says:
    @crimson2

    Let’s not forget that the Turks in Germany were “guest workers.”

    The importation of cheap labor generally has some permanent creep of generational residence, even when the authorities are not particularly amendable to ethnic change. There are multiple reasons. Perverse incentives being foremost: the costs are transfered. Importing people is cheap, and personally profitable. Deporting them is expensive and can also be costly politically. It is not incentivized to the same degree.

    The “guest workers” generally want to stay. It requires a rigid, authoritarian, non-female dominated government to create a structure where they might possibly want to return home. And even this generally ends up being a failure, unless there is some sort of Confucian ethical code.

  214. iffen says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I find your use of the word “chav” both crude and ignorant.

    You seem to be in agreement with the substance of his comment, but object to the use of a term that you consider derogatory.

    Is chav equivalent to white trash?

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @Talha
  215. iffen says:

    I think if I had 999 measurements in agreement and 1 that was not, I would take a close look and see what might be wrong with the 1.

  216. @Agent76

    “I wasn’t supposed to have….” and then she lists a bunch a nice things. She was right. She didn’t deserve any of that stuff because her people didn’t create or sustain any of it.

    “Why doesn’t everyone get this?” Because their parents weren’t smart enough, didn’t care enough, didn’t have the foresight to ensure that their daughter would have a good education by putting her on that bus–like Ali’s grandaddy on that boat–that took her out of the kind of environment her black neighbors created.

    Now she turns around and attacks the very system in which she was allowed to participate.

    “Gloria” who? Why do black pseudo scholars always cite unknowns?

    “Public school system in this country was built by African slave labor….” Oh God, here we go again. Out of the goodness of their hearts, black slave labor hiked up to the midwest on their time off from picking cotton and built those one room school houses in rural Minnesota and Wisconsin.

    “Blacks were kept out…” No they weren’t. They couldn’t read or write in Africa. Their was no need to “keep them out” because they had no interest in or history of education as it was practiced in Europe and America–still don’t for that matter.

    Her students ask, “Where did these books come from? They’re brand new.” She answers, “You deserve new things.” What difference does it make if a book is new or old?

    “Our public school system has never done right by the black or brown child….” Of course. And then, predictably, she goes on to blame whites for “the achievement gap, income gap, incarceration rates” etc. etc. So the people who took her in and educated her in their children’s schools are also those who oppress blacks like her. This makes no sense. Why educate her if they were only interested in keeping her down?

    Truly it is said that “No good deed goes unpunished”.

  217. @Bombercommand

    How do you think the introduction of birth control first among educated middle class families and then the postponement of childbearing until late 20s to 40s differentially by intelligent women who can aspire to professional or other high status careers can have failed to degrade the White European gene pool?

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  218. Phille says:
    @Anon

    I don’t really care for your pointless aggression. But ok, some people just have a fragile ego.

    A few points to help you understand:
    - The overall IQ in India seems to be quite low. See Lynn and PISA.
    - This low mean would trump the high number of Indians, if it were typical for all Indians. There would be no impressive tail.
    - But we see geniuses and high achieving scientists and business men.
    - Additionally, we know that there are jatis that live in the same village, but are endogamous and genetically 3-4 times more distinct than Northern and Southern Europeans, see David Reich’s research.
    - Therefore, one obvious solution would be that these genetically very distinct jatis have different genetic IQ.
    - High IQ groups cannot be too common, otherwise the overall mean would be higher. In fact we know of groups that seem to be very high IQ and are quite small (see Parsi for example).
    - I have heard only of a couple of these groups and they are all relatively small (<10 million). With such small numbers you need high mean IQ, to produce people like Ramanujan.

    This is the logic behind my observation. It has nothing to do with confirmation bias, just thinking through a couple of facts and coming up with a likely (but not the only possible) scenario. I'm also not super committed to this scenario, the whole point of my observation was, that this scenario, while likely to be the case in India, doesn't seem to be the case in Africa.

  219. Truth says:
    @Colin Wright

    However, as a group, blacks are spectacularly stupid. Global warming is happening, the Holocaust did occur, Australia exists, and blacks are stupid. These are facts.

    Well you did get 1/4 there, Old Sport.

  220. Talha says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Thanks for the clarification – much obliged.

    Peace.

  221. Truth says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Nice Work, Henry David.

    I’ll be awaiting the philosophical bestseller any month now.

  222. Truth says:
    @Tyrion 2

    White working class boys are treated like sh*t by the wider culture, often by their teachers and have an oppositional attitude to that which despises them.

    These are white boys you’re describing?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  223. Talha says:
    @epochehusserl

    look at what our intellectual elites do

    Again forming the case that IQ might have an upper bound (like other traits such as height, muscle density, etc.) in homo sapiens, beyond which it is a liability.

    Peace.

  224. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    The grim stoic, battling against fate in an unfeeling universe, infinitely serious, infinitely important :)

    And you say you’re not a Romantic.

    And yet, one step further, you might escape your prison and be free for the first time…

  225. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Truth

    Yes and working class. Without a doubt the most pariah’d members of UK society. It is so obvious that I’d have to question someone’s sincerity if they disagreed.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  226. Talha says:
    @iffen

    So “droogs” never became popular, eh?

    Peace.

  227. @Tyrion 2

    First off I’m American, so I don’t understand the connotation of chav like you do. (All these UK tests and grades are also a lot more difficult for an American to navigate).

    I’m both a eugenicist AND a nationalist. The left end of the IQ bell curve needs more traditional structure/culture than the right end. (It’s the same with White America post cultural revolution – high IQ Whites still behave pretty much like it’s 1960 with regards to marriage, work et al. Low IQ Whites not so much). I don’t loathe the White working classes or blame them. It’s partly their own elites that guide their culture and put them where they are. There’s a lot of blame to go around. But, at the end of the day, it’s still their bloody country!

    However, if you could magically make Britain 98% White again, I’d still advise against the lower classes having kids above replacement, and very much against them having more kids than the upper classes. White Britain is what it is in large part because of periods of population replacement from the upper to lower classes.

    So, Britain should be British. I’m all for that. But even if you could accomplish this impossible task you still need to manage your gene pool. Good luck with that.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Tyrion 2
  228. Wally says:
    @Colin Wright

    Yet you have no proof for your scientifically impossible ‘holocaust’. As proven here where you were spectacularly shot down:
    American Pravda: Holocaust Denial, by Ron Unz

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

    BTW, there is also no proof for your ‘global warming’, now changed to ‘climate change’, changed to ‘extreme weather’.

    Are you black?

    • Troll: Colin Wright
  229. @crimson2

    There’s no reason to artificially set a number of immigrants. You can take the highly-skilled and the low-skilled alike. Low skilled are pretty important because native workers won’t move to where the jobs are.

    I’d move to the Central Valley to pick lettuce, but you’d have to pay me A LOT. We’ve put our lower classes on various forms of welfare, killed their work ethic and lowered their wages. To get them working again would require higher wages and reduced welfare. Personally, I’d rather have them – particularly the Blacks – working 10 hour days instead of sitting idly and plotting their next mugging.

    Is cheap produce worth the costs of low skilled/low-IQ immigration: lowered national IQ, reduced social capital, lowered wages, higher housing costs etc? And to make matters worse, the children of Mexican farm workers look like working class Whites in regards to employment, welfare use etc. It’s like the cartoon where they bring in the cat to get rid of the mouse, the dog to get rid of the cat, and so on.

    Any simple cost-benefit analysis that takes secondary costs into consideration (IQ, social capital, housing) makes it obvious that low-skilled immigration is a disaster, and even if we stop it tomorrow the negative effects will be with us indefinitely.

  230. iffen says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    There’s a lot of blame to go around.

    I agree with most of what you have to say and do not dimiss without consideration the elements that I don’t readily accept.

    But you are wrong about blame. The structure and functioning (or dysfunction) of society is the purview of the elites and they are to blame more so than the proles.

    I’ll give an example. I’m not the brightest bulb in the package, yet I know that the higher % of the population that tries opiates then the higher % of abusers will follow. Fact.

    No one except the proles will be held responsible for the opioid crisis. Yet the elites: business, the medical industry and government made it happen.

    • Replies: @Talha
  231. @Triumph104

    I think you pretty well refuted Chanda’s claims. Again, the only resolution is to (1) test the entire population and (2) at a later age – at least in the mid teens. That’s been done the world over, and with consistent results (NE Oriental > White > ‘Jungle Asian/Oriental’ > Black).

    I’d be curious to know how this breaks down in terms of standard deviations. The US Black-White IQ gap stabilized at approximately one standard deviation many decades ago and hasn’t budged since. If the gap in the UK is different, it could point to selective immigration by region or status or even to something else. It doesn’t need to be repeated, but Africa is a large continent and I would expect significant differences even among the Bantu.

    Chanda – like many others – selectively uses misleading data and omits more reliable contradictory data. The contrary data from many posters here demonstrate that when you test specific (and more g-loaded) subjects more broadly and at a higher age it’s consistent with the all of the other science in this area.

    Chanda needs to find specific g-loaded tests (ie math/verbal) administered to the entire population of Black Africans in Britain past the age of 14 or so. Until then he hasn’t falsified anything.

  232. @Tyrion 2

    I’ve known both “white trash”(US) and “chavs” and I don’t think the equivalency is strong. “White trash” are often the equivalent of rednecks, to which the remains of honor culture linger very strongly. Chavs are strange, they genuinely seem to want to be “wiggers” in my experience and the binge drinking culture I’d say makes “alcoholics” I’ve known seem lame.

    I’m not blaming them – they seem like very lost people, but there is a total values breakdown. Rednecks do have their values and culture, chavs seem to seek to emulate black ghetto culture for the lack of anything else. There’s a certain annoying fakeness about it – rednecks, for example, are really quite serious about violence when it happens, while chavs talk a big game but have never killed a squirrel in their lives.

    • Replies: @iffen
  233. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    If a black tribal leader did this, it wouldn’t excite comment.

    Depends on which tribe. Wolof or Hausa or Fulani wouldn’t do this. The more pagan you go on the tribal spectrum, the more you will find this sort of behavior. You should read up on the habits of the pagan Rus as described by the Abbasid ambassador, Ibn Fadlan.

    Note that even today, the more…flamboyant…black leaders literally drink the blood of their enemies, etc.

    Not surprising for some Africans – see my note above. There are also certain elements in Africa known for hunting down and cannibalizing pygmies, albinos, etc. In essence, there are some numbers of African people still involved in the pre-modern realm; witchcraft, sacrifices, etc. are still common. Again, mostly along the lines where pagan or animist practices are still prevalent or not yet out of people’s system even though they may profess, say, Christianity.

    As far as Europe, you have heard of the term “ossuary”, correct?

    all men are created equal

    That only really makes sense if not taken literally. Some are born blind, some with no arms, some with Down’s Syndrome, some with neonatal diabetes…on the material level, men are not equal and each comes to the starting line with different advantages and handicaps (all part of the individualized test). However, they are created equal in the raison detre for existence (which I mentioned in an earlier post – forming a relationship with the Divine is available to the smart and stupid, rich and poor, legless and fully-formed).

    They are inferior.

    Depends on what one means by “they” and the metrics of measurement/assessment.

    Peace.

  234. @bucky

    It doesn’t take intelligence to behave with restraint and respect.

    Well, it certainly doesn’t hurt. Higher IQ people are more future oriented and thus can better understand the ramifications of not behaving with restraint and respect both to themselves and to society.

    Black behaviour and lack of achievement comes from their…bad manners, not their lack of intelligence.

    That’s kind of what this whole discussion is about. Right now, the evidence strongly supports the position that, in fact, it is blacks’ lower IQ and other genetic traits that are responsible for the majority of their behavior and lack of achievement. The author is attempting to refute that evidence. And, to be honest, he presents some very interesting data. Not enough to outweigh all of the previous evidence, not even close, but it’s worth exploring more.

  235. iffen says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “White trash” are often the equivalent of rednecks,

    Not according to most rednecks.

    Chav, as a derogatory term could be the equivalent of calling someone white trash.

    The points that you raise as to culture and behavior that questions the equivalency of the behaviors deserve more thought.

  236. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    Just as there’s no need to refer to Vietnamese as Gooks, there’s no need to refer to white working class Brits as Chavs. That’s all.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @iffen
  237. @Liza

    Agreed. The only reason that I care about black IQ is because I am forced to live in the same country as they live. I doubt that the Japanese much care whether blacks’ IQ is 70 or 85 or 100. They care only that they are not of the Japanese people and therefore have no place in their country.

    • Agree: Liza
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Truth
    , @anonymous
  238. iffen says:
    @Tyrion 2

    there’s no need to refer to white working class Brits as Chavs.

    What % of the white working class do you consider to be chavs?

    If chavs are like white trash then they will not be too keen on working for a living.

  239. Jm8 says:
    @Anon

    “This is great news! Now we can remove all affirmative action preferences for Africans and give them to native whites in the UK, who clearly need it now with their lower IQ.”

    The UK does not have affirmative action (nor does most of Europe).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action#United_Kingdom

    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0002764298041007010

  240. Talha says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    If you live in the US, this is called “Buyer’s Remorse”…should have asked if there was a return policy and if it extended a few centuries.

    A humble suggestion, if a time machine is ever built (Whites will likely build it), maybe one can go back in time and convince the colonies to start up a Trans-Pacific Slave trade using Japanese and Chinese imports.

    Peace.

  241. Jm8 says:
    @Triumph104

    The second table cited in this article uses only Math and English scores.

    also here below.

    • Replies: @Triumph104
  242. Tyrion 2 says:
    @iffen

    It has a wide range of meaning.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Daniel Chieh
  243. @Wizard of Oz

    Wiz, you are commiting the Fallacy of Begging The Question. I know many young white people 25, 30, even 40 years younger than me and they are as intelligent as my generation or my parents generation, or my grandparents generation. Observation refutes your half assed presumption.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  244. @iffen

    Typically, “chavs” are usually defined as people “living off the dole” or off government money and inside public housing “council-housing.”

    A very far cry in my opinion from people living in trailers/mobile homes who are proud of the idea of self-reliance.

    • Replies: @iffen
  245. iffen says:
    @Tyrion 2

    It has a wide range of meaning.

    Which would indicate that it is worthless. If that is the case, why object to its use?

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2
  246. Jm8 says:
    @Triumph104

    Also, the PISA score, like those mentioned at the start of this article, also lumps all black groups into one category (with somewhat similar results: black-white and South Asian-white gaps of roughly one half an SD). (the South Asian groups are all in one category as well)

    • Replies: @Jm8
    , @Triumph104
  247. Retards on here think they are smarter than blacks. Hardehar. They’re not even smarter than themselves. No. I really mean retards.

    • Replies: @iffen
  248. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit: “…lumps the different black groups, with all their variation, into one category…”

  249. Tyrion 2 says:
    @iffen

    Using racial or semi-racial epithets detracts from your point. It is embarrassing and unproductive.

    • Replies: @iffen
  250. iffen says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Typically, “chavs” are usually defined as people “living off the dole” or off government money and inside public housing “council-housing.”

    This is my understanding.

    A very far cry in my opinion from people living in trailers/mobile homes who are proud of the idea of self-reliance.

    A sympathetic view of rednecks.

    I reiterate that there is a distinction between rednecks and white trash.

    If you want to leave Atlanta or Charlotte, or wherever you are, and visit me, I will show you white trash.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  251. @Tyrion 2

    Can I just define it as people who think that this is an accomplishment in musical taste :P

    • Agree: Agent76
  252. @iffen

    Unfortunately, I know some borderline cases. I try to be sympathetic, a few were good people to me.

    I’ll let you know if I am in the Atlanta area, I have quite a few friends in Suwanee.

  253. iffen says:
    @Tyrion 2

    I understand and agree. I just would like for you to explain the difference between “white working class” and chav.

  254. crimson2 says:
    @Colin Wright

    However, as a group, blacks are spectacularly stupid. Global warming is happening, the Holocaust did occur, Australia exists, and blacks are stupid. These are facts.

    Because of the Flynn effect, black people today are as smart as white people in ~1980.

    And blacks have closed the racial IQ gap somewhat–even Murray admits this.

    So statements like “blacks are spectacularly stupid” that imply some genetic reason are particularly ignorant. This is often ignored by people with a motivation to believe in their own racial supremacy.

    Congrats on getting the Holocaust right, though.

  255. Talha says:
    @iffen

    If I recall, there was some Nobel prize winner – trying to recall the name – big pioneer in the eventual computer industry that was a proponent of eugenics. I think he wanted to have a government program to provide payouts for people with an IQ less than some margin if they would volunteer to be sterilized.

    Not really sure if the guy was thinking about this in a racial sense or was just interested in IQ as the metric no matter what the background of the person. I’m figuring White proponents of intelligence-based-eugenics don’t really have much sympathy the less intelligent, even from among Whites. Maybe they can guilt trip them into committing suicide or something:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @iffen
  256. Edward says:
    @Peasant

    The only way people could get into Oxford university with excellent GCSE results and the standard 4 A levels is through clearing.

    Respectfully, this is untrue. Oxford’s medical school has long been the best in the world, and is currently second best. To shortlist candidates for interviews, Oxford put equal weight on the BMAT (part of which involves logical reasoning) and GCSE results (in particular, they look at the number and proportion of A*s). To select candidates post-interview, they put equal weight on the interview, the GCSE data and the BMAT data. In their own words:

    As part of the process to decide which applicants are called to interview, we established a numerical ranking on the basis of GCSE performance and BMAT results (both quantitative and objective measures and equally weighted)… the GCSE measure used was a combination of proportion of A* grades at GCSE and number of A* grades at GCSE (with equal weighting).

    https://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/statistics

    That you know people with good A-Level grades who didn’t get into Oxford is irrelevant. A lot of people who get good grades don’t get into Oxford. They have minimum A-Level requirements (AAA for some subjects, A*AA for others), but their selection process in many subjects consists of a) number and proportion of A* grades at GCSE; b) an aptitude test; and c) an interview.

    Again, I’m a hereditarian and disagree with Chisala’s views, but dimissing the data he highlights is not the way to go about this. And, as I’ve repeatedly pointed out, White British students outperform Black African students at the top end of the GCSE scale (a higher proportion of White British students achieve As and A*s at GCSE). Of course, subgroups such as the Igbo and Yoruba probably do better even on this metric, but this is not surprising from a hereditarian point of view. The low average level of performance in the White British population is being driven by the dramatic underperformance at GCSE of the White working-class.

    • Replies: @Peasant
  257. Edward says:
    @crimson2

    I already explained why in that very comment. Hence the use of the word ‘thus’. You will have to reply to my specific points.

    I would add, however, that in the United States, the same gaps and inequalities are seen throughout society. Not just when it comes to SAT scores, but also employment, income, occupation, and so on.

    In the UK, White British people tend to do better on average than Black Africans in every domain except for GCSE average point scores and attainment of at least a C grade at GCSE. They attain the top grades at GCSE at higher rates; they attain the top grades at A-Level at much higher rates; they attain a First or Upper Second-Class degree at university at much higher rates; they do better when it comes to employment, income and occupation too.

    I’ve even found some more data. Not only do White British students far outperform Black African students when it comes to getting the top grades at A-Level, they also outperform them on average points score and also when attaining at least an AAB at A-Level. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a_level_outcomes_by_ethnicity

    Why? Many of the White working-class won’t even take A-Levels. The worst performers at GCSE won’t enter into the equation anymore. Again, this demonstrates that it’s specifically a problem with the lowest performing White British students at GCSE.

    Is this dramatically low performance of impoverished White British students due to genetics? If so, then why do all of the other data in the UK – including the top-end GCSE data and the A-Level data as a whole – show the same trends: Chinese followed by Indians followed by Whites followed by Pakistanis/Bangladeshis followed by Black Africans followed by Black Caribbeans.

    No, it’s something to do with the shared environment: anecdotally speaking, Black African parents are much more encouraging of and attentive to their children children than White working-class parents. You can see this on programs such as ‘Child Genius’, too. It’s probably fair to say that Black African pupils are more encouraged to get to that all-important C grade at GCSE by teachers, whereas the White working-class are often written off as ‘chavs’ and so on.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  258. Peasant says:
    @Edward

    wow

    Thank you for the information. Its been a while since my university application days but why does Oxford place more emphasis on a full set of high grade GCSE results than A levels? In my day GCSE results were seen as irrelevant especially by the small number of Oxbridge track applicants. Why do you think they put more weight on the GCSE as opposed to A level results? Higher grades in all areas that suggests mental plasticity? A lowering of standards at A level? Of course the GCSE might have changed since my day but when I was in school our teachers outright told us that grade inflation and lowering of standards made it worthless. My sister is currently a teacher and she is encouraged to tell students that employers and universities only care about GCSE maths and English.

    Maybe its a case that they recieve so many applications with good A level results that they are looking for more of a perfect track record in school a la the American grade point average?

    • Replies: @Edward
  259. @trelane

    “appear to be the product of natural selection”

    “Natural selection” is not an explanatory mechanism. See Fodor’s argument:

    1 Selection-for is a causal process.
    2 Actual causal relations aren’t sensitive to counterfactual states of affairs: if it wasn’tthe case that A, then the fact that it’s being A would have caused its being B doesn’t explain its being the case that B.
    3 But the distinction between traits that are selected-for and their free-riders turns on the truth (or falsity) of relevant counterfactuals.
    4 So if T and T’ are coextensive, selection cannot distinguish the case in which T free-rides on T’ from the case that T’ free-rides on T.
    5 So the claim that selection is the mechanism of evolution cannot be true.

    • Replies: @AlreadyPublished
  260. @Dan Hayes

    “Culture-neutral” tests don’t exist.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
  261. @Peter Frost

    1 For the claim “IQ tests [and similar tests] test intelligence” to be true, IQ tests must be construct valid.
    2 For IQ tests to be construct valid, we must be able to mechanistically relate differences in one variable to differences in another.
    3 IQ tests are not mechanistically related to any physiologic function, that is, there is no mechanistic relation between IQ tests and variable X.
    4 Therefore the claim “IQ tests test intelligence” is false since IQ tests aren’t construct valid.

  262. @WolfHere

    What recent evidence disproves OoA?

    • Replies: @WolfHere
  263. @Anonymous Jew

    “we know from studies of identical twins reared apart”

    The EEA is false.

    “heritability for intelligence”

    Useless concept.

    “GWAS”

    GWAS doesn’t give causal information. Only physiological analyses do.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @Anonymous Jew
  264. @RaceRealist88

    What are psychological aspects*
    What is causal information*

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
  265. Edward says:
    @Peasant

    Your speculations are probably spot-on. Oxford already have high minimum A-Level grades, so they need something more to differentiate between applicants. Aptitude tests, GCSEs and interviews allow them to do exactly this.

    Overall GCSE results are significantly g-loaded. The g factor explains 53.7% of the variance in ‘Best 8′ GCSE scores. If you extract a ‘general factor’ for GCSE and correlate it with the g factor from cognitive tests, there’s a 0.81 correlation. (Deary et al. 2007).

    Higher grades in all areas that suggests mental plasticity?

    Precisely. The ability to achieve top grades in all or virtually all subjects (the average person accepted to Oxford has more than 93% of his/her grades at A*) is likely to be an indicator of high general intelligence, because it shows that you are, well, a generalist.

    My sister is currently a teacher and she is encouraged to tell students that employers and universities only care about GCSE maths and English.

    Many universities do only require minimum GCSE grades in English and Maths (usually a B or a C) and sometimes in any other relevant subjects (depending on the course one is applying to).

    However, the University of Oxford for most of its subjects, along with many medical schools, use GCSEs to further differentiate between applicants. Increasingly, schools seem to be using GCSEs to ‘gate’ entry into certain A-Level courses too, in order to boost their A-Level results. For example, some schools require you to have at least an A in GCSE Maths if you want to do A-Level Maths. So this could severely limit pupils’ career options.

  266. Philip Owen says: • Website
    @Tyrion 2

    Your point about poorer, peripheral areas only offering public sector white collar jobs thus blocking white working class boys is an insight to me, although I live in such a place and came from such a place. When education, health and local government are the main employers in the absence of a large private sector, boys face challenges. Call centres also tend to be somewhat female. There’s a gap between the optical engineers developing the next generation of lighting for greenhouses and the output of the local tech.

  267. Philip Owen says: • Website
    @Tyrion 2

    Working class boys have it the worst but boys in general do not receive positive conditioning. Schools are not boy friendly environments. time to bring back single sex schools. Girls did better in maths and science at such schools anyway. See Margaret Thatcher.

    • Agree: Talha
  268. Philip Owen says: • Website
    @iffen

    Coucil House and Violent was the original meaning. So living in public housing, intermittently employed at best and with a conviction for a violent crime. Later simply having an ASBO (Anti Social Behaviour Order). The girls shoplifted from Burberry’s or in the Rhondda Valley stole their gera from the Burberry factory, now moved to China.

    • Replies: @iffen
  269. Talha says:
    @Talha

    William Shockley is the Nobel prize guy…physics it was:

    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0213.html

    Smart guy no doubt, but kind of missed the point on how the whole evolution thing works…
    “As a corollary, he suggested that blacks were reproducing faster than whites – hence, the retrogression in human evolution.”

    Competency in one field doesn’t necessarily translate to another…they say Imam Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) suffered from this…

    • Replies: @iffen
  270. iffen says:
    @Talha

    Depends, Talha.

    Some of them want policies that help the less capable. See Murray and his advocacy for a UBI.

    Some just worry about who is having too many kids.

    • Replies: @Talha
  271. This article is another example of how the real issue of multiculturalism is clouded.
    Even if all that Chandra Chisala claims is true, it is irrelevant. The real question that needs answering is what need was/is there for these people here in the first place? This applies whether they are black, brown, yellow, red, polka-dot or heaven forbid, Romanian. IQ is not the issue, the reason they are in our countries is.

    As for the wonderful IQ results Chandra sites, apparently she is fine with the cultural appropriation of White educational systems, that demonstrate superior “Black” IQs, but fails to provide any examples of how that translates into technological inventions, philosophy, literature, etc. of Whites that clearly demonstrate the incapability of “Blacks” to produce anything remotely comparable.

    • Agree: Liza
    • Replies: @Santoculto
  272. iffen says:
    @Philip Owen

    I think the different social welfare policies and institutions between the US and the UK can explain quite a bit.

    As a general rule, white trash in the US do not cluster in public housing, but are dispersed. Whereas some of the worst black underclass do cluster there.

    If the US had generous public housing for white trash then they would very much a more identifiable and coherent group.

  273. @RaceRealist88

    I don’t claim to have a super high IQ myself, so you’ll have to spell out “EEA” for me.

    There are many ways of calculating heritability (within certain environmental parameters). For example, you can look at siblings reared apart, unrelated siblings reared together, et al. Monozygotic twins reared apart (“MZA”) – ie identical twins separated at birth, provide the most accurate measure we have (short of unethical experiments). There have been many MZA studies and they replicate. Granted, there’s no data I know of comparing MZA twins where one grows up in a 3rd-world slum while the other grows up in Scarsdale. However, there are at least a few cases where one twin grows up upper middle class and the other grows up working class (no effect on IQ, and within the broad middle class SES doesn’t effect IQ either).

    Using MZA studies it’s easy to calculate the heritability of IQ for working-class to upper-class Americans at a certain age. Depending on age, it’s around 75-80%. Meaning 75-80% of the variation in IQ scores between middle-aged Americans (excluding those that were locked in a basement as children) is attributable to genetic differences. That simple. The research is so voluminous it’s not worth citing. Go see for yourself.

    Genome Wide Association Studies – last I checked – can only account for about 10% of the variance in IQ and height. That’s not a lot. But the fact that GWAS align with the observed IQ scores of various groups adds yet another piece of evidence in favor of the hereditarian/HBD hypothesis. IIRC, GWAS studies show that genes associated with IQ/educational attainment are most to least common in: indigenous Black Africans > Bantus (Black Americans) > Amerindians > Whites > Northeast Asians. What are the chances of GWAS aligning with IQ scores?

    Note, the amount genes we find that affect IQ and other behaviors – either additively on non-additively – will only grow. One day we’ll resolve this issue once and for all. Hopefully America and the West will still be around, but I doubt it.

  274. @Anonymous Jew

    Correction:

    least to most common in: indigenous Black Africans > Bantus (Black Americans) > Amerindians > Whites > Northeast Asians. What are the chances of GWAS aligning with IQ scores?

    • Replies: @Jm8
  275. @Santoculto

    Psychology doesn’t reduce to physical structure. Physiological analyses, not association studies, show causation.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  276. Agent76 says:

    Feb 27, 2016 Why Your Nation’s IQ Matters

    Over the last several decades, economists and psychologists have documented the many ways in which an individual’s IQ matters. But, research suggests that a nation’s IQ matters so much more.

  277. songbird says:
    @Talha

    I seem to recall Chinese Gordon’s head was severed. Seems like it might be a case of tit for tat.

    • Replies: @Talha
  278. Jssh says:

    This could be resolved by simple psychometric surveys of graduates in the United Kingdom. Who is brave enough to finance that? Not the government or any university, of course.

    Black Britons, African immigrants or otherwise, are still underrepresented among university graduates, STEM A-Level takers, the civil service and the courts. In Britain’s human rights law this has been taken as evidence of “indirect discrimination” and great lengths have been taken to eliminate the difference. These facts are important.

    I should warn that GCSEs are not g-loaded enough to serve as a proxy for intelligence. They are the definition of “learning to the test”. Do the research.

    The Medical admissions UKCAT, Grammar School 11+ and Oxford-Cambridge admissions tests are all g-loaded. They’re the closest thing to the first section of the pre-1996 SAT that you’ll find in the United Kingdom. Get any of these authorities to publish the data if you’re interested in real solutions.

    As always, the methodology exists and has done for almost a century now. This so-called “debate” is merely a question of scientific falsification.

    Do the IQ tests.
    Do the IQ tests.
    Do the IQ tests.

    Then we will see how well GCSEs serve as a proxy for intelligence.
    Then we will get an estimate for IQ and underlying general intelligence between the ethnic minorities of the UK.
    Then we can test how well systemic discrimination accounts for differential outcomes.

    IF Britain has the means of raising mean IQ in depressed ethnicities then isolating the critical factors is a discovery of history-altering significance. It’s immoral not to discover the truth.

  279. Talha says:
    @songbird

    I don’t doubt it. The Mahdi of Sudan was no Emir Abdul-Qadir (ra) in his conduct.

    Peace.

  280. @Curmudgeon

    Exactly, if this is true [that is not], why not these super geniuses are not in their respective countries helping or fighting there*

  281. Talha says:
    @iffen

    I’ve heard Charles Murray speak before, he seems to be a reasonable voice. It’s too bad that idiots in Antifa want to lump him in with more extreme voices on the subject.

    Some just worry about who is having too many kids.

    Sometimes without going through the trouble of having any of their own.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Truth
  282. @Bombercommand

    Your use of “begging the question” (the petitio principle fallacy) is mistaken. I am not starting with my conclusion as my factual premises but from the undoubted fact that people in successful white European families have been leading the way in reducing their rate of reproduction both by numbers and timing.

    By contrast you are relying on insufficient sample size and probably an unrepresentative sample. Moreover your observation is entirely consistent with the Flynn Effect which is clearly running out in the West and is confronted by the calculations reported in UR by or from Michael A. Woodley of Menie q.v.

    I should be interested to know what you think, and why, when you have caught up with that reading.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  283. Look I’m going to surprise you. Opposing immigration is fine. As those foam-at-the-lip conservatives Marx and Bernie Sanders said, “Immigration is just a trick to lower wages and to prevent unionization.”

    Just don’t say they’re “inferior” because that proves that you are inferior.

    I like the guy who tells of Nigerians fleecing whites. Whites are so easy to trick, he said. Absolutely true. Somebody’s got to text the bozo IQ, the clueless loser sucker IQ quotient. I promise you, whites will be at the bottom.

  284. @RaceRealist88

    Artificial selection is the human practice that produced this extraordinary variety of canines in a veryshort period of time:

    Natural selection is the only useful explanatory mechanism for the variety of organisms we see on the planet today.

    Jerry Fodor has a long history of using sophistry and bafflegab to preserve and protect the human industry of religion. He is just a modern day Shaman, and a total jerk.
    But thanks for the course in pseudo-logic.

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
  285. @szopen

    Most likely Polish Immigrants. They are now the largest non-indigenous (Anglo-Saxon, Scottish, Irish) white population in the UK. There are over 1 million of them with around 910,000 being foreign born and thus still speak Polish at home. I recall a statistic which mentioned that the largest percent of new limited liability small businesses registered in the UK have been registered under polish names

  286. Jm8 says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    “Genome Wide Association Studies – last I checked – can only account for about 10% of the variance in IQ and height. That’s not a lot. But the fact that GWAS align with the observed IQ scores of various groups adds yet another piece of evidence in favor of the hereditarian/HBD hypothesis.”

    “least to most common in: indigenous Black Africans > Bantus (Black Americans) > Amerindians > Whites > Northeast Asians. What are the chances of GWAS aligning with IQ scores?”

    In the most recent GWAS, indigenous Subsaharan Africans actually score above Amerindians overall. And with Oceanians (like Papuans and Melanesians) scoring the lowest.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/piffers-equation-further-updated/

  287. Dan Hayes says:
    @RaceRealist88

    Race Realist88:

    Maybe they should be devised, i.e. culture-neutral IQ tests.

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
  288. @Jm8

    I am talking about the first table — the table that uses the term ETHNICITY. The table you posted is labeled language not ethnicity.

  289. @Peter Frost

    A model that posits that some groups do more brain development than others after puberty easily explains the phenomenon discussed.

    Now why would some groups do more brain development after puberty (and enter puberty sooner?)

    Because of the environment they were selected in.

    If there is no advantage in a particular environment to developing more brain power then it will not happen because brains are very expensive organs.

    Selection will work against greater brain power in those environments where it has limited utility, however, it will also select for greater brain power in those environments were it improves reproductive success.

  290. crimson2 says:
    @Edward

    I already explained why in that very comment. Hence the use of the word ‘thus’. You will have to reply to my specific points.

    Yes, you explained why environment could be effecting British white scores. But that says nothing at all about African Americans.

    Essentially your argument is that differences in cognitive achievement between the races can be traced to environment. We agree on that point.

    Yet you dismiss an environmental cause for racial IQ/test differences in America based on no reasoning whatsoever–except for a naked “thus.”

    • Replies: @Edward
  291. @Jm8

    Yes, I am aware of that, but at least PISA shows results on identical exams (Science, Math, and Reading). Chanda has failed to do that in this article. He says that Africans outperform White British on GCSE Math and GCSE English, but he did not provide scores for the White British (or any non-African ethnicity) in this article.

    Strand’s tables also gives some scores in math and English. The Africans who were born in the UK outscore British whites on both math and English. Even more counter-intuitively, the blacks coming from Africa who speak English as a second language also outperform British whites, not only in maths, but even in English!

    Surely he does not expect us to dig for the data on our own. Not after Chanda apologized for expecting Thompson to read a massive amount of source material.

    Since his words sound sincere, I will afford him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he just failed to locate this test score data in the massive paper that I asked him to check (I am not quick to accuse of intellectual dishonesty).’

    So, I will be kind enough to just cut out the relevant data from the source document and paste it here, so that no one will have an excuse going forward.

    • Replies: @Jm8
  292. iffen says:
    @Talha

    Competency in one field doesn’t necessarily translate to another…

    Sure, but I don’t believe that this is the key issue. Even if one is in “the field” you have to be very careful when talking about group differences. It is pretty much off limits to ascribe undesirable behavior to a person because of his group affiliation as opposed to ascribing it to the individual. (As if the person’s group affiliation is not part of the person.)

    You can’t just say something like, “Well, what do you expect, he’s a redneck.”

    Actually you can say this but that’s a different story. Most group names can’t be substitued for redneck. Not if you want to keep your job.

  293. Entertaining just-so story but let’s take a closer look at the data and reanalyze it correctly.

    Firstly:

    African-American WISC scores
    Age — IQ
    4 — 95.5
    12 — 90.5
    15 — 88.8
    24 — 84.5

    Here, Pete Frost misinterprets the data as if it were longitudinal (the same persons tested at different ages) when it is actually different persons of ages ranging from 4 to 24, a 20 year generational gap resulting in a 11 points IQ gap.

    Secondly:

    ——————- Age 7 Age 17
    Black children –—- 97 — 89
    Biracial children – 109 — 99
    White children –– 112 – 106

    Here it is a longitudinal study, but contrary to what Pete Frost pretends, the black kids lose just 2 points to the white kids between age 7 and 17, the gap is 15 points at age 7 and, 17 at age 17. But as Drew Thomas points out, the white score is most likely inflated because of an attrition effect at follow up that had the lowest scoring whites leaving the study. Find out more here:

    https://www.mdpi.com/2079-3200/5/1/1

    So, those two points lost probably don’t mean a thing and the washout effect is just an illusion of suboptimal numeracy. Maybe the black kids would even have gained a few had the lowest scoring whites remained. Otherwise, it is stated in the study that all the samples had seen their IQ fall because of the use of a new renormed test.

    Next time you want to talk about intelligence, do it with an intelligent person.

    Have a nice day.

    • Agree: crimson2
  294. FKA Max says:
    @Peter Frost

    Here, Pete Frost misinterprets the data as if it were longitudinal (the same persons tested at different ages) when it is actually different persons of ages ranging from 4 to 24, a 20 year generational gap resulting in a 11 points IQ gap.

    http://www.unz.com/article/a-troublesome-intelligence/#comment-2541988

    I wrote several comments on this in the following comments thread:

    Stability and Change in Children’s Intelligence Quotient Scores: A Comparison of Two Socioeconomically Disparate Communities
    [...]
    Growing up in a racially segregated and disadvantaged community, more than individual and familial factors, may contribute to a decline in IQ score in the early school years.
    https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/154/8/711/131324 Archived link: http://archive.is/7EYmD
    [...]
    Low birthweight and social disadvantage: Tracking their relationship with children’s IQ during the period of school attendance
    [...]
    Initial IQ deficits associated with urban environment (vs. suburban) increased significantly from age 6 to 11, but no further by age 17.
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289605001091

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-well-tempered-clavichord/#comment-2337000

    The Onset and Development of B-W Ability Differences: Early Infancy to Age 3 (Part 1)

    https://humanvarieties.org/2013/05/26/the-onset-and-development-of-b-w-ability-differences-early-infancy-to-age-3-part-1/ Archived link: http://archive.is/7eukb

    Farkas & Beron (2004) used longitudinal data from the CNLSY to track children’s scores on the PPVT from early childhood through junior highschool. They showed that PPVT gaps were at least 1 SD at age 3, and do not continue to grow after children enter kindergarten, or as they progress through school (Figure II).

    Figure II: Stable IQ gap from ages 3 to 13 in the CNLSY

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-well-tempered-clavichord/#comment-2337150

    Here is the excerpt which makes me believe that under ideal/equal conditions the B-W IQ test score gap is about a 7 to 8 IQ points difference:
    [...]
    The 4 middle class white samples averaged an IQ of 106.6. This gives us a gap of 7.2 (.48σ) for the privileged samples. Similarly, the Early Head Start Project, the only sample with both disadvantaged blacks and whites, gives us an IQ gap of 7.8 (.52σ).

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-well-tempered-clavichord/#comment-2337629

  295. What a tiresome noise the IQ meme upon meme.

    As a status symbol or road to excellence hardly a fits matter. It’s such a weak contention in that it is applicable to a very small portion of the society regardless of trace. I guess can be proud of one’s kind if they invented the wheel — but it’s not as if that was a collective invention.

    There was only one white Einstein. And yet, His intelligence hasn’t unlocked te doors of value for most people, just a select few. And while deep space theory and astrophysics are great — we are still land planet locked. The white housewife or husband these days, life;s would be impacted much by Einstein’s theory.

    There is only one Tesla. His inventions impact the world over, but whites only produced one. Furthermore, even IQ is no substantiate for hard work . . . all the flashes of brilliance required years of intense labor. Edison — genius, probably not — intense labored though — tons. The list of things the dominant society has contended blacks could not has fallen steadily over the years and they continue to fall . . . I see no reason to panick because some said research challenges what is a rare trait among all populations.

    Someone invented the wheel — it wasn’t me. And it wasn’t you. I like the wheel. I like inoculations – a procedure whites borrowed from someone of another color. Not unlike a any number of genius innovations —

    There’s no shortage of a lack of integrity — which has far greater value than a high or moderate IQ. I have no doubt that among black populations the race to obsess about IQ will be as consuming as it is among whites.

    I dare not suggest something as simple as — the trait common to all of mankind is africa — that genetic pool, regardless of the machinations to make it china or somewhere else — suggest, that without it genius would be out of the question. It is entirely possible that the more aggressive your trait one’s fellow humans, the more that genetic code —– pretending one exists — for genius kicks in. That in times of crisis it sheds presses forward to nuclear heights —

    But I gotta say, the genius’s who used astrophysics to create wall street prophets usually and eventually are brought down to a crashing reality — but until then – they are geniuses.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  296. “create wall street prophets” (profits)

  297. The fundamental premise of the article is that there is not much difference between the UK test scores of Black and White students. This contrasts with the stark gaps between the IQ scores of American Blacks and American Whites, and even the larger gap between African Blacks and Whites generally. Comparing these gaps, Ms. Chisala concludes that something about the UK’s environment is closing its IQ gap. And that conclusion, she believes, also necessarily establishes that any Black/White IQ gap must be due entirely (or almost entirely) to environmental factors.

    This is an interesting argument, but I don’t think it quite makes the case.

    First, we would have to assume that the UK school assessment being discussed is actually a proxy for IQ. Maybe people in the UK are sufficiently familiar with this test to make that assumption, but Ms. Chisala would actually have to lay that foundation for her argument to hold together.

    Second, she hasn’t really shown that the Black immigrant population of the UK is a representative sample of African genotypes related to IQ. I don’t know who should have the burden of proof on this question. But if there really is something special about the UK’s environment that raises Black IQ we would expect to see new immigrants start out with low IQs that continue to rise over time as they imbibe the benefits of this special environment. That seems like something that could be objectively verified or falsified from the data.

    Finally, the real problem that confronts a strict environmentalist hypothesis is that, after all these decades, no one can identify the magical environmental mechanism that supposedly raises White and Asian IQ relative to Black IQ. Anyone who could successfully bottle an environmental fix for low IQ would instantly earn a Nobel Prize and probably billions of dollars, so its not for lack of resources or incentive.

    Of course, if one is starved of vital nutrients, eats lead paint, or is raised in the forest by wild animals without human language IQ will be inhibited. But the Holy Grail of an environmental IQ growth factor that exists within the normal range of experience is ever-elusive. It’s therefore pretty hard to imagine what it could be about the UK that supposedly raises Black IQ so far above the levels seen in Africa or America. Is it something in the water, or cloudy weather, or eating Fish & Chips? And is the existence of this mysterious mechanism really more plausible than the counter-argument that successful immigrants to the UK simply tend to be a good bit smarter than those who get left behind?

    In any event, congratulations to the African immigrants who seem to thriving in the British school system.

  298. IQ tests are not mechanistically related to any physiologic function, that is, there is no mechanistic relation between IQ tests and variable X. Therefore the claim “IQ tests test intelligence” is false

    By the same reasoning, one could argue that everything we see and do is beyond measurement. Any measurement will involve some circular reasoning because the “measurer” is ultimately a human mind whose inner workings are not fully known. Is it legitimate to measure things like “anxiety” or “consumer satisfaction”? It is not neccessary to fully understand what we define and measure. If you set the bar that high, you’ll end up living a very minimal life where almost everything is beyond comprehension.

    My working definition: Intelligence is a form of mental processing that enables us to perform tasks. Some of this processing is task-specific, but most of it seems to apply to all tasks that humans normally do.

    “African-American WISC scores
    Age — IQ
    4 — 95.5
    12 — 90.5
    15 — 88.8
    24 — 84.5

    “Here, Pete Frost misinterprets the data as if it were longitudinal (the same persons tested at different ages) when it is actually different persons of ages ranging from 4 to 24, a 20 year generational gap resulting in a 11 points IQ gap.”

    The word “misinterprets” implies that you have an alternate explanation. Are you saying that these four age groups are drawn from different African American communities? They weren’t. Is the Flynn effect responsible? The same study (Dickens and Flynn 2006) found that these scores showed a gain of 5-6 points over the scores of black children tested thirty years earlier. So the expected Flynn effect between the oldest and youngest subjects would be 3-4 points. That’s about a third of the IQ difference between them.

    ——————- Age 7 Age 17
    Black children –—- 97 — 89
    Biracial children – 109 — 99
    White children –– 112 – 106

    Here it [The Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study] is a longitudinal study, but contrary to what Pete Frost pretends, the black kids lose just 2 points to the white kids between age 7 and 17, the gap is 15 points at age 7 and, 17 at age 17. But as Drew Thomas points out, the white score is most likely inflated because of an attrition effect at follow up

    This is a valid criticism. If true, it would invalidate the results for the white adoptees but not for the black and biracial adoptees. This point was discussed at some length by Colman (2016):

    The children were re-studied 10 years later when most were teenagers (Weinberg, Scarr, & Waldman, 1992), and the pattern of results was generally similar. As usually happens in longitudinal follow-up studies, the researchers did not manage to retest all children from the earlier study, and unfortunately the White adopted group suffered attrition of some of its lowest-scoring children, causing the mean IQ score for that group to be significantly higher in the follow-up (117.6) than in the original study (111.5), whereas the mean IQ scores of the mixed-race (109.5) and Black (95.4) children were not significantly different from their original means—actually slightly lower, because of test renormalization. This introduced a further methodological flaw into the follow-up, making interpretation difficult. Hierarchical regression analyses showed that the IQ scores of the three groups of adopted children were not significantly different after adjusting for pre-adoption measures. Nevertheless, it is striking that the Black children had shown no increase in IQ after spending many years being raised in middle-class White homes, and this seems more consistent with a hereditarian than an environmental interpretation of the Black–White IQ gap

    Colman, A. M. (2016). Race differences in IQ: Hans Eysenck’s contribution to the debate in the light of subsequent research. Personality and Individual Differences, 103, 182–109. doi: 10.1016/j.paid.2016.04.050

  299. @Wizard of Oz

    _Your first paragraph is The Fallacy of Begging the Question, and your replies to my comments(but the first which is the Not a Scotsman Fallacy) are The Fallacy of Begging the Question. You start with the unsound presumption that the White European gene pool is degrading provide a bogus reason for the unsound presumption as a distraction, then declare your unsound presumption as the conclusion.Your premises ARE your conclusion, and not only that, they are unsound. Quite an accomplishnent: fallacious reasoning with unsound premises, Im impressed.What has got your afro-panties in a knot is that I, accurately, pointed out that black africans were never able to invent the wheel, an astounding case of extreme stupidity, while White Europeans did invent the wheel and in 3000BC had been using their invention for at least half a millenia, and every other people on earth(including Sumerians) copied it from White Europeans(but not black africans too stupid to even copy from the copyists).Your ludicrous response was to make a lunge with the Not a Scotsman Fallacy(OK, I’ll explain it for you, you contend that contemporary White Europeans are not the White Europeans that invented the wheel). Everything you wrote after that is an attempt to lead the discussion away from the fact you can’t deny: with 10,000 years on their hands since the last ice age black africans were unable to invent the wheel, but White Europeans did, and gifted it to the entire world. Happy Kwanza Afro-Wiz.

  300. @Dan Hayes

    Not possible. All IQ tests are culture-bound.

  301. @AlreadyPublished

    “Artificial selection is the human practice that produced this extraordinary variety of canines in a veryshort period of time”

    Are you possessed by the delusion that natural selection and artificial selection are similar? There is no mind to natural selection; there is when it comes to artificial selection (breeders have minds); therefore Darwin used a wrong analogy.

    “Natural selection is the only useful explanatory mechanism for the variety of organisms we see on the planet today.”

    Blind faith, repeating the Darwinian mantra even after being shown how NS is not an explanatory mechanism.

    “Jerry Fodor has a long history of using sophistry and bafflegab to preserve and protect the human industry of religion. He is just a modern day Shaman, and a total jerk.”

    Maybe you can identify an error in his reasoning.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  302. @Anonymous Jew

    “EEA” is equal environments assumption. The assumption that MZ and DZ twins share similar environments.

    “For example, you can look at siblings reared apart, unrelated siblings reared together, et al. Monozygotic twins reared apart (“MZA”) – ie identical twins separated at birth, provide the most accurate measure we have (short of unethical experiments).”

    They’re not useful. Arguments that defend twin studies from the critics of the EEA are either (1) circular or (2) trait-relevant environments can’t be shown.

    “Genome Wide Association Studies – last I checked – can only account for about 10% of the variance in IQ and height”

    It’s population stratification. See:

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.15252/embr.201744140

    “What are the chances of GWAS aligning with IQ scores?”

    How is this evidence for functionality? Nevermind the fact that you can’t compare PGS across populations.

    “Note, the amount genes we find that affect IQ and other behaviors”

    “B iff G” (behavior B is possible if and only if a specific genotype G is instantiated) or “if G, then necessarily B” (genotype G is a sufficient cause for behavior B). Both claims are false; genes are neither a sufficient or necessary cause for any behavior.

    Nevermind the fact that thinking is irreducible to physical structure. IQ tests require thinking. So finding “genes for” IQ test-taking is an exercise in futile. This is because there are no psychophysical laws linking mental events under their mental descriptions and physical events under their physical descriptions. Therefore genes cannot cause—or even contribute to variation in—psychological traits.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Jew
  303. Edward says:
    @crimson2

    Thank you for your reply. I have hinted, on multiple occasions, at why I don’t think that environmental factors explain the majority of the gap in the United States.

    Firstly, African-Americans from the richest families do worse on the SAT than White Americans from the poorest families. In Britain, upper and middle-class White Britons do better than upper and middle-class Black Africans in all domains including GCSE, but working-class White Britons do dramatically worse than low-income Black Africans at GCSE level.

    Second, the SAT – being essentially an IQ test (or it used to be before the recent changes) – is highly unlikely to be much influenced by the shared environment. We know that at age 18, the shared environment explains very little of the variance in IQ. This is not the case for GCSEs: Plomin and colleagues have found that 30-35% of the variance in GCSE scores is explained by the shared environment.

    Third, in the United States, the same gaps are seen throughout society in all domains. In the UK, White British people do better than Black Africans in every domain except for when it comes to getting a C grade at GCSE and when it comes to average points score at GCSE. Thus, the data that Chisala cites are an aberration, not the norm, suggesting a cultural explanation. White working-class people, when they get out into the real world and away from schools and their parents, seem to do just fine given that White British people as a whole have a lower unemployment rate than Black Africans.

    Fourth, we actually do have IQ data on the different ethnic groups in the UK, courtesy of the 2009-10 CAT cohort, with much larger sample sizes that you’ll see in almost all IQ studies conducted by Lynn and others. These data replicate the same ranking seen in every other domain except for average GCSE point score and getting a C grade at GCSE. Interestingly, British Indians have an average IQ of 100 according to the CAT data (same as White British), yet they do significantly better than White British people in almost all domains, most of all at GCSE level but also at A-Level and in the economy.

    Again, a cultural explanation can account for all of this: Indian ‘overperformance’ relative to IQ, White working-class (and to a lesser extent White British as a whole) ‘underperformance’ relative to IQ, and Black African overperformance relative to Black Caribbean people who have the same average IQ yet have mostly been in the UK for far longer than Black Africans, meaning that the hardworking immigrant culture has ceased to exist.

  304. WolfHere says:
    @ploni almoni

    If someone didn’t use quotation marks in statement then statement should be read literally. Obviously only you have ability to read other people’s mind and clarify meaning for rest of us. You should work as fortuneteller. There is no need for so much intelligence, just crystal ball.

  305. WolfHere says:
    @RaceRealist88

    don’t be lazy…just google for “Africa origin of human problems” and you will find a lot of info about disagreements about it inside evolutionists’ circles

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  306. @Peter Frost

    The word “misinterprets” implies that you have an alternate explanation. Are you saying that these four age groups are drawn from different African American communities? They weren’t. Is the Flynn effect responsible? The same study (Dickens and Flynn 2006) found that these scores showed a gain of 5-6 points over the scores of black children tested thirty years earlier. So the expected Flynn effect between the oldest and youngest subjects would be 3-4 points. That’s about a third of the IQ difference between them.

    I should have said you misread, treating the different age groups as if they were the same persons tested at different ages. And no, I don’t believe they were from different communities, I simply think that those born 20 years later had better educated and better off parents than the oldest age group, so the 11 points difference isn’t a Flynn effect but a catch-up effect due to improvements in post Civil Rights. Black living standards.

    Now, there is no way to tell whether the youngest cohort will lose points over time. If yes, it is better explained by the fact that as kids grow up, they are less sheltered from the broader environment and may be exposed to more factors that are susceptible to depress test performance. But there is actually no evidence of a wash out effect anywhere in the literature, so the default hypothesis is that their scores will remain in the mid 90s

    Nevertheless, it is striking that the Black children had shown no increase in IQ after spending many years being raised in middle-class White homes, and this seems more consistent with a hereditarian than an environmental interpretation of the Black–White IQ gap

    It isn’t, firstly we don’t know what the gap at follow-up would have been had the lower scoring whites not left the study. The black kids lost 8 points, the mixed race lost 10, the whites lost only 6 due to attrition. What if the whites had lost 12 points, or 14?

    Either way, this study design doesn’t allow inferences as to what is genetic and what is environmental since it doesn’t compare the adopted kids with non-adopted kids of similar birth background. It compares the adopted kids with each other without controlling for pre-adoption factors and adoptive family characteristics.

    A better study (don’t remember the reference) is one that compared black kids adopted by black parents and similar black kids adopted by white parents. The finding was that black kids adopted by white parents had a 13 IQ points advantage over those growing up in a black family. This, in my opinion is more informative than the Minnesota study’s design.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
  307. @Edward

    Thank you for writing this up, Mr. Chisala. I am surprised that you did not note what I had pointed out to you on Twitter, namely that when you break down other groups (such as Whites, Indians and East Asians) into sub-groups (just as you have done for Black Africans and indeed Nigerians), then the available evidence demonstrates that the best performing Black African sub-groups (Igbo and Yoruba) still perform worse than the best performing non-African sub-groups.

    For example, while 73.5% of Igbos and 70.8% of Yorubas attain 5 A*-C grades (including English and Maths) at GCSE, they are outperformed by Indians who speak Marathi (89.5%), Telugu (88.9%), Sinhala (80.3%) and Hindi (75.6%). They are also outperformed by Japanese speakers (85.4%), Danish speakers (78.3%) and Hebrew speakers (74.6%).

    So what? What is each subgroup’s respective migration history? Nigerians are a large community, proportionally a much larger share of the Yorubas and Igbos live in the UK than any of the listed groups and are likely much less hyper-selected than, say, a thousand kids of expat Japanese executives.

    In any case, the % points difference between the Nigerians and most of these groups is much smaller than the difference between Nigerians and white Britons.

    The racial mean is only a proxy for the family mean, so children and grandchildren of Black Africans will regress to their family mean (and the average of the family means among Black Africans in the UK may be aronud 94).

    Then how do you explain that they actually achieve higher educational levels and occupational status than their parents if they are supposed to regress to a “lower genotypic IQ”? Btw, I’m not sure you understand regression to the mean and what causes it and if it actually applies to IQ. There is nothing in the (serious) literature (not blogs) about that.

    By contrast, at the top end of the scale, Black Africans still underperform. Only 5% of Black African students gain 3 A grades at A-Level (the exams taken two years later at age 18) compared with 11% of White British students, 14% of Indian students and an astounding 24% of Chinese students). Black university students are also much less likely to achieve a First or Upper Second class degree at university than White British, Chinese and Indian students.

    Out in the real world, in the cutthroat market economy, Blacks in the UK (around two-thirds of whom are Black African) perform much worse on average. They have low average incomes, and 16% of Blacks in Britain are in the lowest-skilled Elementary occupations (including street-sweepers, luggage carriers, garbage collectors and janitors), compared with 11% of Whites and 9% of Indians. 17% of Blacks are in caring, leisure and other services (waiters, bartenders, care assistants), compared with only 9% of Whites and 6% of Indians.

    You’re basically making Chanda’s point that black African kids, despite having parents with lower occupational status than the white average do just as well or better. Add the fact that they live in larger families and are heavily clustered in London where life is much more expensive than in the rest of the country. After taking all of this into account, what you get is a population of mainly lower-middle class kids who can’t afford private schools, attend reasonably priced colleges while having to work after class and be burdened by financial worries.

    And congrats to Chanda for this piece that set the record straight.

    • Replies: @Edward
  308. @RaceRealist88

    What is reasoning*

    What is the difference between artificial and natural selection**

  309. @WolfHere

    don’t be lazy…

    Are you behaviorist*

    Respect him!!

  310. @Talha

    Or we could just pick our own cotton and build our own railroads and maintain a homogenous (historically the best kind) society.

    • Replies: @Talha
  311. @EliteCommInc.

    There is only one Tesla. His inventions impact the world over, but whites only produced one. Furthermore, even IQ is no substantiate for hard work . . . all the flashes of brilliance required years of intense labor. Edison — genius, probably not — intense labored though — to

    Not sure what is the point here.

    1) Fundamental discoveries don’t need more than one inventor, and indeed, it technically would be impossible in today’s interconnected world(no one can re-invent the radio since there’s basically no place on Earth that hasn’t heard of the concept).

    2) Edison took credit for any inventions made by his employees. While something still done a lot, it is pretty unethical and puts to question a lot of “inventions” made by him. Telsa claimed that Edison took 25 patents off him.

    Incidentally, Michael Faraday was probably more important than any of them. I mean…I hope you appreciate electricity. I can probably imagine a world without light bulbs and AC power, but I’m pretty sure the modern world wouldn’t exist without a theory of electromagnetism.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  312. Truth says:
    @Talha

    Some just worry about who is having too many kids.

    Sometimes without going through the trouble of having any of their own.

    Bammm!

    Nailed it.

    • Replies: @Talha
  313. Truth says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The only reason that I care about black IQ is because I am forced to live in the same country as they live. I doubt that the Japanese much care whether blacks’ IQ is 70 or 85 or 100. They care only that they are not of the Japanese people and therefore have no place in their country.

    So move to Japan, problem solved. You see how easy that was?

  314. Talha says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Or we could just pick our own cotton and build our own railroads

    Absolutely – definitely an option.

    For the record, I’m not opposed to a break-away Whitekanda from US territory. It may be an interesting project – I’ve heard a little bit about Cascadia in the Pacific Northwest – sounds nice. It would certainly be interesting the kinds of Whites that would move there.

    homogenous (historically the best kind) society

    Well, since I’m kind of a fan of the Abbasid Empire (that was one of the apex societies in the world at the time), I’ll have to respectfully disagree – though I guess it does depend on the parameters of homogeneity involved. We Muslims will cop to having policies that historically financially incentivized conversion; a kind of use of soft power in order to achieve a kind of religiously homogeneous environment.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  315. Talha says:
    @Truth

    It’s always much easier to point out what everyone else is doing wrong and should be doing than actually getting off the damn couch and putting in the effort to fix one’s own situation.

    Peace.

  316. anonymous[843] • Disclaimer says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Yes, but the Japanese simultaneously believe that people can become Japanese. They simply have high barriers, but in theory, “with enough effort” people can jump the hoops. The fact that they can be principled(even if the hoops are insane, such as being a PhD or winning for the glory of Japan) about it is what allows it to work, while white nationalists fail to grasp that, in a large part because the Japanese conception comes from a place of confidence, while the WN comes from a place of desperation.

  317. @RaceRealist88

    How does EEA discredit MZA? That makes no sense. Leaving the math aside, you have people separated at birth and reared apart that are remarkably alike in every measurable trait. Sometimes more so than MZT. How is that “not useful”?

    GWAS is still in its infancy and barely useful. However, as Cochran recently noted:

    people in the bottom fifth of the educational-achievement polygenic risk scores had a 10 percent chance of graduation, while those in the top fifth had a 55 percent chance. If you had this level of information about the Kentucky Derby, and used it, you wouldn’t always pick the winner, but you’d certainly make a lot of money.

    • Replies: @Chuck
  318. @AfroFCKNsapiens

    I should have said you misread, treating the different age groups as if they were the same persons tested at different ages.

    That was neither my intention nor a reasonable inference of my intention.

    I simply think that those born 20 years later had better educated and better off parents than the oldest age group, so the 11 points difference isn’t a Flynn effect but a catch-up effect due to improvements in post Civil Rights.

    That IQ gain was measured by the same study. It was 5-6 points over a thirty year period. Such a gain can explain only a third of the IQ difference between the 4 year olds and the 24 year olds.

    All of the improvements you mention (better schools, better diet, etc.) would be subsumed in the Flynn effect. There is no consensus over what the Flynn effect actually means.

    it is better explained by the fact that as kids grow up, they are less sheltered from the broader environment and may be exposed to more factors that are susceptible to depress test performance.

    That’s an interesting hypothesis. To date, it has not been borne out, particularly not by the adoption studies. When black or biracial children are adopted into white families, their IQ is initially boosted, but this boost washes out … while they are still living with those families.

    But there is actually no evidence of a wash out effect anywhere in the literature,

    There is plenty of evidence. I provided you with several studies, and I could provide you with more, if you wish.

    It compares the adopted kids with each other without controlling for pre-adoption factors and adoptive family characteristics.

    Go back and read the study (assuming you have read it). The authors did do a control, using the parents’ biological children. Those kids did do a bit better than the adopted white children, probably because the genetic background of the latter often involved parents with unstable life histories.

    It isn’t, firstly we don’t know what the gap at follow-up would have been had the lower scoring whites not left the study. The black kids lost 8 points, the mixed race lost 10, the whites lost only 6 due to attrition. What if the whites had lost 12 points, or 14?

    The attrition factor is probably in the vicinity of 4 or 5 points less. To get a larger effect, the missing white adoptees would have to have very low intelligence. I could walk you through the numbers, if you wish.

    The finding was that black kids adopted by white parents had a 13 IQ points advantage over those growing up in a black family.

    I’m not surprised. How old were the kids when they were last tested?

  319. @Daniel Chieh

    The issue of IQ is not all that important. The number of people in any given society that have a high IQ, depending on what the number is that represents that sets the lowest bar –

    it’s rare and as such — doesn’t say much about anyone given society. There’s no unique genetic marker. Using it to bolster societal status is very weak tea.

    It is not as if the intelligence of Tesla, or Einstein is representative of the entire white population. Garnering together the populations that have made this a staple of culture and fostered the same and then comparing that artifact against societies that have had no or less exposure or interest and claiming one;s superiority on the same is just bad form.

    And as with all such polity, the populations are continuously proving the narratives bankrupt as they too indulge in the IQ discussion. The IQ whiteness test is being challenged in the same way that whites claimed

    blacks were incapable of reading and writing English or other complex language systems, english is one of the least. That there are in fact hundreds of thousand of black mathematicians engaged in upper level math . The blacks who flew planes flew them with as much skill and tenacity — perhaps more than the whites who claimed would never get it and if they did would run in the face of battle.

    I won’t bother reposting the numerous cites that make the case about blacks, as intelligent and moral contributors of society at large. As that happens with greater public notice, it’s tearing at the fabric hundreds of narrative used to sustain a particular societal norm.

    And what we are seeing now is kind of a white panic. I think there’s no need to panic. intelligence is human trait. And it’s variance across the population as culturally defined is just not a key marker for superior beings.

    Note: human beings have been highlighting what makes the best to rule the world for a long time.

    Since there has yet to be the genetic code (static marker) for IQ, making claims that it’s uniquely and better situated in whites is a stretch — there are kinds of problems with the advance that don’t even require a scientific background. As is demonstrated b y my examples, and your addition — IQ is not owned by anyone group of human beings. So rare it is, that it is not even evenly distributed amongst the populations that claim superior status.

    The number one claimant to superiority — has been the the use of power and time and time again — history makes clear that requires little in the way of intelligence.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  320. @Truth

    Troof, I’m still waiting for you to explain if AfroKangz were driving about North Africa during the Ice Age in chariots of their own invention, why didn’t they take these chariots with them when they migrated to sub saharan africa in 7000BC to escape the post Ice Age drying? After all these chariots would be useful for transporting the lil chilluns.

    • Replies: @Truth
  321. Jm8 says:
    @Triumph104

    The table below the one I cited (in the article) gives the white British best 8 mean score (in comparison to those of the African groups.

    “…but he did not provide scores for the White British (or any non-African ethnicity)”

    There is information on various non-African ethnicities (mostly European) in the source (by Steve Strand) cited in the article.

    On page 72 (table 6.8) of the Steve Strand source there is data for European immigrant groups by first language (a similar table with the same categories as the African table: Maths, English, Languages, and Best 8)—the scores of European groups vary significantly, as those of the African groups do (with some groups performing well, and others less well).

    (the table with data for African groups is table 6.14 on page 78)

    Not all African groups outperform the white British, only some do, and some perform about equally, and some also perform somewhat less well than the white British (as the article discuses).

    Several of the European immigrant groups (see table 6.8) in the UK (such as many of those speaking Eastern European languages—e.g. Slovak, Lithuanian, Polish, Latvian, Romanian—, Portuguese, and Turkish) perform below many African groups (including some of the lower-performing ones)—but others do not (and some European groups perform below the white British or general average, whereas others do not, with some performing above it).
    The group of English-speaking “White Other”, i.e European (non-British in origin) immigrant children (or children of European immigrants—presumably of various European ethnic origins) who speak English as a first language (at the top of table 6.8) perform well (as do the French, and to some extent the Italians and Albanians).

    The average Maths score for all European immigrant groups averaged together was
    39.2 (39.7 for all African groups averaged together). The average European score in English (all groups averaged) was 37.7 (39.9 for all African groups averaged). Most of the European groups in the table are Eastern European (few Western European groups—like Germans, Belgians, Scandinavians, etc.—are given in the table, though from what I recall from elsewhere, many tend to do well—the French are mentioned in the text but are not in the table).

    In the tables, the Igbo, Yoruba, Akan, and English-Speaking Africans perform above all European groups except for the Italians, Albanians and English-speakers (English-speaking non native/non-British White Other). And the Yoruba and Igbo perform above all the listed European groups, including, overall, the aforementioned English-speaking non-native White group (the highest scoring European group in the table).
    Both the Yoruba and Igbo perform above the English-speaking non-native Whites in Math (and in Best 8 score) but about the same as them in English.

    Also, from what I can find, on page 36 (table 3.6) point scores are given (in the same categories: Maths, English, etc) for both non first English language speakers, and first language English speakers (the second designated as the “FLE Student” group or “First Language English” group). The FLE group, I believe, represents the general native English-speaking population/group, and is predominantly, but not entirely, made up of the Native White British (it also includes a fairly small minority of other Europeans who were raised in the UK speaking English, as well as a fairly small minority of English-speaking non-whites)—the FLE group’s “best 8″ score is 347, very close to the 346.8 (or 346.4) “best 8″ score for the solely White British group.
    In table 3.6, it can be seen that the Yoruba, Akan, Igbo, and English-speaking African scores (in Maths, English and best 8) are higher than the FLE group’s. (The Shona-speaking students’ Maths and English scores are about the same as the FLE group’s)

    the source:

    https://v1.educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/uploads/pdf/EAL_and_educational_achievement2.pdf

    • Replies: @Jm8
    , @Jm8
    , @Jm8
  322. @Peter Frost

    I didn’t say the measure was circular. I said the measure isn’t construct valid so the claim “IQ tests are valid measures of intelligence” is false.

    “Intelligence is a form of mental processing that enables us to perform tasks.”

    Intelligence is a mental ability, so it is irreducible to physical structures (brain states/structure, genes etc). Genes, brain states/structure and physiology don’t explain intelligence because there are no psychophysical or psychological laws.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Talha
  323. @EliteCommInc.

    I don’t even believe in IQ per se as anything but a limited metric but I don’t think that anyone is claiming that it is “evenly distributed” but rather that there are group tendencies. That’s going to affect the frequency of individuals who have the highest level of aptitude and which are able to push the envelope of human knowledge. If you were looking, for example, for someone who is 7″ tall, it is very rare but you’re more likely to find him among a population of individuals that average 6″ tall rather than 5″ tall, all other things considered and assuming standard variance.

    Its obvious that intelligence has a hereditary/genetic component, since cognition is affected by neurochemicals and hormones and the production of such is influenced by one’s genetic profile. Would you be “you” if you were flooded with estrogen? Or the same “you” under the influence of alcohol? Or stimulants? Its probably complex and polygenic, but its really silly to imagine that intelligence has no hereditary component, just as it is silly to claim that intelligence has no environmental influence.

  324. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit:

    “…perform above all European groups except for the Italians, Albanians and English-speakers (that is, English-speaking non native/non-British in the “White Other” category—who are not to be confused with the Native White British, who score lower)”

  325. @RaceRealist88

    Please consume large quantities of lead and get back to us.

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
  326. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit:
    “The FLE group, I believe,…is predominantly, but not entirely/exclusively, made up of the Native White British (a small minority of it/the group however, also includes other Europeans who were raised in the UK speaking English as a first language. And another small minority of it includes some English-speaking non-whites)”

  327. Talha says:
    @RaceRealist88

    Question: Down’s Syndrome is a result of extra genetic information that causes its telltale results in an individual. Often these folks can be delightful individuals, but across the board have less intelligence by practically any metric you can measure by. Given that is the case, how can it be stated there is no physical causal relationship to intelligence?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
  328. iffen says:
    @Talha

    For the record, I’m not opposed to a break-away Whitekanda from US territory.

    If I was a WN, which I am not, I would want it all.

    I don’t like talk of secession, whether California or Texas (do note the different response from the MSM when one or the other is touted). That was tried already and everyone pretty much agrees that it was a bad thing. I think that it is hard to know for sure, but we seem to be falling apart anyway and we certainly don’t need any cheerleaders egging it on.

    • Replies: @Talha
  329. @Daniel Chieh

    No some are claiming that it’s distribution and that to a higher degree in certain populations based on skin color. That is where i bock.

    In referencing physical qualities such as height, we are discussing a static artifact of human biology. There we can actually trace the most of the genetic factors that relate to weight. So to a degree it is measurable. However, IQ has no such definitive artifact. trying to establish it as linked to something as benign as color is a manufactured construct. The variables as to environment, and biological interaction are just unclear. That is not the same as height. Those cues are static –

    Based on your last paragraph we are on the same page, I think.

    What is key to my challenge is to those who want to advance IQ as a marker of societal superiority —- based on what we know — that’s a leap unsupported by biology. It may have some cultural support as societies who have cues this as a standard and focused on its development say it is so. But in truth that’s a tilted comparison — because making that comparison to societies who don’t the construct, focus on the construct have it as a manner of their culture — simply would not register in the same manner.

  330. @Daniel Chieh

    correction:
    “I won’t bother reposting the numerous cites that make the case about blacks, as intelligent and moral contributors of society at large. As that happens with greater public notice, it’s tearing at the fabric hundreds of years of narrative used to sustain a particular societal norm.”

    Excuse my lousy writing skills, they are getting better.

    However, I make no such argument that environment doesn’t matter. In fact, my contention is that environment may be the most important factor. And that given that we have no clue what the variable interplay is between biology (genetics) and environment (which would include biological environments) — trying to place as a marker to a particular societies superiority is a stretch.

    No doubt environment is a factor. In my view unless one can locate the genetic marker/code, if said code exists and I doubt it, then we have to lean towards environment — of course that is another discussion. Suppose we find a specific marker — we still would have the hurdle of the interplay with environment as to development and expression.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  331. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit:
    “In the tables, the Igbo, Yoruba, Akan, and English-Speaking Africans perform (in Maths/English) above all European groups listed except for the Italians and Albanians (both which they either score above or about equal to) and the English-speakers (that is, the English-speaking but ethnically non-British Whites of non British/non-native ethnic origin—not to be confused with the native White British, who score lower). And the Yoruba and Igbo perform above all the listed European groups, including, overall, the aforementioned English-speaking non-native White group…”

    (of course, the relative lack of Western European groups in the European table—most being Eastern—may makes it less representative of Europe or or European immigrant groups in the UK than one would want it to be—though, as far as I know, the major European immigrant groups in the UK currently, except perhaps for the Irish, are more Eastern European than Western)

  332. Truth says:
    @Bombercommand

    Well one very strong and emerging theory is that Noah, Moses, Jesus and the rest were black, so I guess that would answer that question.

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
    , @Talha
  333. @Daniel Chieh

    How is that evidence for psychophysical laws?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  334. @Talha

    Down syndrome isn’t a psychological trait (what a mental ability, like intelligence, is). It’s a genetic disorder.

    • Replies: @Talha
  335. Talha says:
    @iffen

    I would want it all.

    I’m sure they do, it seems an issue of feasibility. Maybe they’ll prime themselves in Whitekanda and wait for other regions to fall apart and then make a bid to take over. Maybe it’s a long term strategy thing….don’t know.

    any cheerleaders egging it on.

    Oh I’m not cheer leading it, but I would support it if it came to a national vote, because if it did come to that point it would mean a significant portion of the population really want to secede on those grounds and I personally do NOT want to go the civil war route to try to keep things together (not with the weapons we have now – it would be interesting if WhiteKanda would demand to keep the nuclear weapons within her territory or not). I only ask one thing; that they make Islam illegal within its territory – it’s the least they can do in exchange for my vote.

    Peace.

  336. @EliteCommInc.

    There we can actually trace the most of the genetic factors that relate to weight. So to a degree it is measurable.

    Actually, I’m pretty sure that height is polygenic too. Yet no one would argue that height isn’t hereditary in some significant fashion.

    No doubt environment is a factor. In my view unless one can locate the genetic marker/code, if said code exists and I doubt it, then we have to lean towards environment — of course that is another discussion.

    There’s already a SNP for BDNF hormone expression, which correlates with neural growth and flexibility, definitely one of the components of intelligence. All other things equal, that would be “more intelligence” though in a very slight manner at the present.

    Of course environment probably matters but so does hereditary, which influences the prevalence of intelligence-positive SNPs in a population. Such populations might be identified by skin color sometimes.

    The environment itself will influence the frequency of such genes by influencing survivors and breeding population. If I had two populations of humans and I am some sort of deity, and force them all to run 10 miles, and then sterilize the slower 50%, and do this for multiple generations, then I will have faster humans at the end. Same goes for intelligence-influencing SNPs.

    In fact, something like that did happen with humans. There’s evidence of quite a few “bottleneck” effects where almost a very small percentage survived in certain areas of the world(much worse than 50%), and this means that their genes are disportionately represented. There’s no reason to expect that the same selection effects occurred with all populations in the world.

    I am, personally, very interested in environmental effects and intervention but its silly to dismiss the significant influence of hereditary on cognition.

  337. Edward says:
    @AfroFCKNsapiens

    Then how do you explain that they actually achieve higher educational levels and occupational status than their parents if they are supposed to regress to a “lower genotypic IQ”?

    My main point was that regression to some sort of “racial mean” of 70 doesn’t occur, despite Chisala’s claims. On average, the mean IQ of Black Africans in the UK should remain around 94 for the foreseeable future.

    You’re basically making Chanda’s point that black African kids, despite having parents with lower occupational status than the white average do just as well or better.

    No, I’m making the point that when it comes to getting a C grade at GCSE and GCSE average points scores, Black Africans do just as well or better. They do significantly worse when it comes to: a) getting the top grades at GCSE; b) average A-Level points score; c) getting the top grades at A-Level; d) getting a First or Upper Second class degree at university.

    I’ve explained why this likely is (the dramatic underperformance of the White working-class at GCSE due to cultural problems), and what my rationale for this explanation is, above.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  338. @Daniel Chieh

    The relationship between the mental and the physical is not an empirical matter.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  339. @RaceRealist88

    Are you volunteering for deep brain stimulation? I can think of quite a few things that can be done with a chip for your striatum.

    • Replies: @RaceRealist88
  340. @RaceRealist88

    Good to hear, please remember to take 200 mg of Thorazine daily.

  341. @Daniel Chieh

    Again, the relationship between the mental and the physical is not an empirical matter. What you’re saying isn’t evidence for psychophysical laws.

    You’re just going around what was written: that since there are not strict laws between the mental and the physical then genes, brain structure and states, physiology etc don’t explain intelligence or other mental abilities (psychological traits).

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  342. @RaceRealist88

    You are just being silly. The fact that targeted brain damage can directly lead to loss of function is more than sufficient evidence of the cognitive effects of physical effect. We could find a host of other psychological effects from physical intervention: direct brain stimulation, consistent hormonal effects, psychoactive chemicals, etc.

    But like I said, you should prove your point by conducting stroop tests before and after having your prefrontal cortex removed. This why we can demonstrate that there there is indeed no connection between brain structure and intellectual ability.

    Or maybe you’ll be like this:

    The operation did make Rosemary more manageable, because she was essentially left with the mental capacity of an infant. She couldn’t speak intelligibly or control some bodily functions, and she stared into space for hours.

  343. @Truth

    So no evidence of Ice Age afrochariots rolling into Chad in 7000BC, that one can be considered settled in the negative. Now you are rolling out “black ancient Egypt”? You’re walking into an ambush.

    • Replies: @Truth
  344. Talha says:
    @RaceRealist88

    Hmmm…maybe I wasn’t clear. Down’s Syndrome is a genetic disorder which seems to universally affect cognitive abilities (in a negative way) on anyone that has it. Does that not imply a casual relationship?

    Or let’s try another example – borrowing a bit from Daniel’s input…

    A man takes a normal mathematics test (A) at a level that is on par with his education, he then drinks an entire bottle of vodka and afterwards proceeds to take test (B) which is simply a variation of test (A).

    Questions:
    1) Will he score relatively the same on test A and B?
    2) If not, why not?

    Peace.

  345. Chuck says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    I agree, RaceRealist’s comment makes no sense. EEA is a criticism specific to the classical twin method. It does not magically generalize to other biometric designs. For example, the covariance between scores of unrelated siblings reared together (USRT) is a direct measure of shared environmental effect, just as MTRA is a direct measure of genetic effect. One can criticize these other designs on other grounds, but not the EEA. It’s not a mathematical issue; it’s a conceptual one.

  346. @Daniel Chieh

    “. Such populations might be identified by skin color sometimes.”

    Well,

    that a part of the point. “might” that is the target of the investigation, not the answer. The factors on the table make it clear there is no genetic maker to IQ level.

    Sure, i said weight — same as height. Those factors are hereditary. high IQ, the evidence of a hereditary trait is hard to codify in lieu of environment. I have been consistent on this point — environment matters. Whether the heredity factor is genetic or environmental is an unknown — I am not sure we have found a way of factoring environment in such a way as to make that case.

    My position is simple, once I find people of different colors other than white with high IQ, whatever that is at the prevailing moment. The question breaks any linear rule that skin color has a corner on IQ rates. The key to denoting a distinction is if one can locate the genetic code — if one exists.

    This is the same hurdle for people who contend that same sex behavior is genetic. Until you locate the specific biology or code for said behavior — it remains largely a matter of environment. High IQ’s as understood are actually anomalies they are not the norm would they be the norm for any people of a particular skin color.

    We know the first complex written language comes out of africa ahead of asia by six thousand years i think. Yet, when examining technology — where said language got its start generally lags behind. If it was genetics, and maybe it is, that hamped some intelligence in development, then one would be able to pinpoint the that biology and make the case.

    But we know that blacks exposed to the expectations of technological societies develop both skills, to use said technology and advance them — this article makes that case. Making a factual case on maybe — is the problem. each and every exception in this case challenges the rule. Vivian Thomas is not an outlier.

    This is in large part a power game. IQ has been used to sustain a particular polity. I don’t have any issues with high IQ people or even its research and promotion, but its place as a status for the superiority of white skin color — under increasing tests there are increasing questions.

    I have already granted out the posits of higher IQ numbers among whites and I have stated why that is probably the case. And it certainly isn’t tied to white skin by biology.

    “There’s already a SNP for BDNF hormone expression, which correlates with neural growth and flexibility, definitely one of the components of intelligence.”

    Non unique to whites alone. If accurate, it does not denote a unique trait in whites to other humans of a different hue. Since we are talking about intelligence, I would expect neurons to be part of that equation. I expect that herons would have some manner of response with hormones. But unless one identifies a unique said marker. The issue is not whether intelligence is in some manner biological –

    The issue is its uniqueness by nature to whites or yellows or browns uniquely and proportionately. If it is what’s its value toward admonitions to superiority. I tend to question the value of high IQ to the general population when couched in terms of color dynamics.

    • Agree: Okechukwu
  347. Nick says:
    @Conglomerate

    We wuz kangz, fifth generation Jew attempt at scripting Black excuses.

  348. Talha says:
    @Truth

    Don’t know about Afro-chariots, but in our tradition (in some of the most authentic hadith), Moses
    (pbuh) is described as a brown-skinned man with curly hair. Specifically his skin color was described as resembling the people of az-Zut, which were one of the darkest-skinned tribes at the time.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Factorize
  349. Factorize says:
    @Talha

    I simply do not understand why the news that a million person GWAS for Educational Attainment has partially unlocked the IQome has not provoked greater contemplation.

    The era of genetic enhancement of IQ has begun! The relatively insignificant racial and national group differences in IQ will soon no longer be regarded as relevant. In fact, there is no nation that can even boast of being 1 SD above Greenwich mean. Nonetheless a nearly infinite enthusiasm appears to exist to reiterate 19th Century psychometric science.

    It will soon be painfully self-evident to the approaching genetically selected generation that unenhanced humanoids have highly limited intellectual abilities.

    • Replies: @Talha
  350. Talha says:
    @Factorize

    Gattaca – here we come!!!

    Peace.

  351. Anon[384] • Disclaimer says:

    The IQ difference debate boils down to a blame game for minority socioeconomic and cultural deficiencies.

    If minorities and their allies can successfully force acceptance of or otherwise prove equal IQ given nullified variables, then the conclusion becomes that their failures are solely due to White racism.

    If Whites can successfully contend that there are racial differences in IQ in spite of nullified variables, then the blame for any “inequality” reverts mostly to those who experience it. In addition, Whites then have a moral platform for segregation in all most its informal and formal forms.

    That’s the entire debate. Any other framing is dishonest. Almost all of the time the debate frame is either willfully incomplete or dishonest.

    The truth is obvious to everyone who cares to be objective in regard to the matter: which is that the IQ differences are large enough and consistent enough to account for the success difference.

    Moreover, the truth includes emotional, hormonal and other non-IQ factors that arise from differences in neural architecture and hormonal development / output between races, which lead to consistent behaviors that also preclude success. Thus, even with supposedly equal intelligence quotients other life decisions won’t be “equal” across large numbers.

    Because this is the truth, we have entered a game of lie-defense and attack. This isn’t a debate of two versions of truth. This is the rabid defense of a crumbling lie. Its future is time-limited, as its primary defenders are increasingly on the defensive as a broad social group.

  352. Anon[364] • Disclaimer says:

    Those arguing so zealously for the acceptance of equal IQ, if they aren’t merely arguing to gain the benefit of socioeconomic and sociopolitical rent for minorities, are missing the forest for the trees.

    White people don’t need to prove unequal IQ to reject Africans, for example.

    Minorities and their self-interested defenders are making a large mistake in accepting the self-taught premise that we reject minorities solely on the IQ measurement.

    That’s untrue. Its everything, to include behavior differences, values differences, and IQ. Its even aesthetic difference. We don’t want to look like you.We like ourselves. Its a smell difference. Its every difference. We reject others in our society because that is our right. If you want real talk, that’s it. If you think that Jews can give you our society for the long run, then you are mistaken. Of course, you are more than welcome to duplicate it, even with our help. However, please don’t make the mistake of thinking that successful IQ equality agitation gains long term entrance, makes those with lower measured / demonstrated IQ and an affirmative action appointment equal at the board table, or describes reality. We see it as mere political force for increased resources.

  353. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    Somebody posted this in MT, thought you (and others) might enjoy and benefit…

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ9UY3TXUAEls2C?format=jpg

    Peace.

  354. res says:
    @Anonymous Jew

    Genome Wide Association Studies – last I checked – can only account for about 10% of the variance in IQ and height. That’s not a lot.

    You need to update on this. Height is up to ~40% in this study: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/09/18/190124

    IQ (often through educational attainment as a proxy) is still lagging.

  355. @EliteCommInc.

    “There’s already a SNP for BDNF hormone expression, which correlates with neural growth and flexibility, definitely one of the components of intelligence.”

    Non unique to whites alone. If accurate, it does not denote a unique trait in whites to other humans of a different hue.

    How do you know that? I haven’t actually followed up on that study and I don’t think they tagged the ethnicity, though I’d find it hilarious if it is exclusive to Jews. Its just one gene of fairly minor, if positive impact to intelligence.

    But there’s no reason, necessarily, to say that the same genes are as prevailing in all races or populations, and every reason to believe otherwise. The EDAR gene, for example, pretty much only occurs in East Asians(and Finnish, from an ancient migration event). A tribe in Kenya produces the best runners in the world, and it appears that they have leg muscles with improved blood performance. And half of Europe descended from a single Bronze Age king – a bottleneck effect which means that any unique genotypes that he had would be spread only among Europeans. The uneven distribution of Neanderthal genes alone would make a difference; Africans have much less Neanderthal admixture and therefore are much less likely to show Neanderthal genes(or expressions).

    Cognitive genes would not be special in that sense. There’s no reason why they are immune from the usual patterns of isolation and aggregation from populations, and there’s no physical law that indicates that, for example, that it is impossible for “only whites” to have a specific positive gene for cognition.

    • Replies: @Factorize
    , @Okechukwu
  356. Factorize says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Daniel, are you aware of any IQ/EA GWAS in Asian populations that have confirmed the basic findings of the recent Nature Genetics article or even the basic polygenic intelligence model?

    It might now seem trivially obvious that similar findings should apply to Asians. Yet, the idea of racial differences in cognitive ability arising from genetic differences did cause over a century of very acrimonious “discussions” and probably the throwing of a few chairs.

    Considering the centrally important role of psychometrics to wealth creation, it is not clear to me why there has not been more of a sense of urgency to establish that Asian intelligence has the same genetic architecture as that of Europeans. This minor clarification would of course impact tens of trillions of dollars of annual Asian GDP.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  357. Okechukwu says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Brilliant stuff. This is a breath of fresh air amid the idiocy here.

    I sometimes wonder if IQists and so-called race realists are willfully obtuse or if they’re just stupid, which would be quite the irony.

  358. Okechukwu says:
    @Colin Wright

    However, as a group, blacks are spectacularly stupid.

    Ironically, you have to be spectacularly stupid to believe this.

  359. Okechukwu says:
    @Edward

    My main point was that regression to some sort of “racial mean” of 70 doesn’t occur, despite Chisala’s claims.

    Where’s your evidence that Africans have an IQ of 70? And by evidence I mean factual evidence and not some white supremacist blogger.

    You might also explain why if Africans have an IQ of 70, their athletes are not automatically relegated to the Special Olympics.

    • Replies: @Edward
  360. Okechukwu says:

    Black Americans are likely the highest IQ population in the world. What would white IQ be given the same historical and socio-economic circumstances? An expectation of white IQ in the 50-60 range is entirely plausible.

    When adjusted for 400 years of of brutal oppression and social and cultural ostracization, it’s not inconceivable that black Americans have an IQ of 115-120 rather than the present 91.

  361. Edward says:
    @Okechukwu

    As I said in my first post, I don’t believe it’s 70. Lynn and others believe that it is 70, but they have been criticised for excluding certain samples that would have given them a higher result. Wicherts et al. (2010) found that the average sub-Saharan African IQ is 81, though they were criticised for excluding certain samples that would have given them a lower result. Rindermann (2012) surveys the evidence and finds that an average of 75 is most likely. 75 seems the most plausible to me.

    And to be clear, I believe that the average genetic IQ of sub-Saharan Africans is around 85.

    When adjusted for 400 years of of brutal oppression and social and cultural ostracization, it’s not inconceivable that black Americans have an IQ of 115-120 rather than the present 91.

    Ashkenazi Jews have suffered centuries if not millennia of brutal oppression and social and cultural ostracization. Black Africans who emigrate to the UK haven’t experienced centuries of brutal oppression, yet their average IQ is 94, not 115-120. Sub-Saharan Africans haven’t experienced centuries of brutal oppression, yet the most favourable estimate of their average IQ is 81.

    We need to be clear-eyed about these facts if we are to move towards a more humane society.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    , @Jm8
  362. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    But there’s no reason, necessarily, to say that the same genes are as prevailing in all races or populations, and every reason to believe otherwise.

    You’re describing discrete differentiation or speciation, which definitely hasn’t occurred among humans and never will. All phenotypes that are central to survival (intelligence being the most critical) will find expression throughout humanity come hell or high water. That’s basic evolutionary science.

    The EDAR gene, for example, pretty much only occurs in East Asians(and Finnish, from an ancient migration event)

    Does the EDAR gene regulate complex traits?

    Cognitive genes would not be special in that sense.

    So if you have 1000 random Africans and 1000 random Chinese it’s your contention that the Chinese group will be smarter intrinsically? I suspect you wouldn’t bet anything of value on that proposition.

    A tribe in Kenya produces the best runners in the world, and it appears that they have leg muscles with improved blood performance.

    This is junk pseudoscience. There’s nothing in the Kalenjin tribe’s genome or physiology that is unique or exclusive to them. They have a culture of running. Were that culture to fade, they would no longer dominate. Moreover, thin ankles and calves are not complex traits.

    And half of Europe descended from a single Bronze Age king – a bottleneck effect which means that any unique genotypes that he had would be spread only among Europeans.

    And yet scintillating civilizations were extant contemporaneous with European cave and hut dwellers. Humans were already “pre-packaged” with an intelligence that was formed in the crucible of the unforgiving African environment. All such bottlenecking would promote are deleterious mutations, with no effect on intelligence — which is very, very hard to tinker with evolutionarily.

    The uneven distribution of Neanderthal genes alone would make a difference; Africans have much less Neanderthal admixture and therefore are much less likely to show Neanderthal genes(or expressions).

    Neanderthal lineage is a minus, not a plus. Nevertheless, how would trace amounts of DNA from a species that was nearly identical to humans have such a profound impact?

    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  363. After reading the article and then most of the comments, this looks like an interesting piece of research that definitely deserves to be followed up on, but not conclusive in anyway whatsoever.

    @Edward and @Peter+Frost both bring up great counter points that I don’t see addressed sufficiently.

    Does anyone know if Murray or anyone else listed has commented on this? I would be -very- interested in seeing their responses.

  364. Okechukwu says:
    @Edward

    As I said in my first post, I don’t believe it’s 70. Lynn and others believe that it is 70, but they have been criticised for excluding certain samples that would have given them a higher result. Wicherts et al. (2010) found that the average sub-Saharan African IQ is 81, though they were criticised for excluding certain samples that would have given them a lower result. Rindermann (2012) surveys the evidence and finds that an average of 75 is most likely. 75 seems the most plausible to me.

    Even Wicherts et al relied on the fraudulent Lynn data. We don’t have a credible study of African IQ. We don’t know if it’s 90, 100 or 110.

    Ashkenazi Jews have suffered centuries if not millennia of brutal oppression and social and cultural ostracization.

    They’ve never been treated as chattel, stripped of their history, religion, names, culture, identity, etc. This is an absurd analogy, unbecoming of someone attempting to pontificate on intelligence.

    Black Africans who emigrate to the UK haven’t experienced centuries of brutal oppression, yet their average IQ is 94, not 115-120. Sub-Saharan Africans haven’t experienced centuries of brutal oppression, yet the most favourable estimate of their average IQ is 81.

    Nigerian-Americans have IQ’s in the 110-115 range. Maybe this reflects the potentiality of black Americans in the absence of sociological factors that militate against their IQ. After all, most of the slaves were taken from the area now known as Nigeria.

    • Replies: @InterestedSkeptic
    , @Edward
  365. Jm8 says:

    “After all, most of the slaves were taken from the area now known as Nigeria.”

    It wasn’t most of the slaves, only some (though fairly often a significant number) from Nigeria. In the US, many/significant numbers (for instance) were also taken from the Western Congo/North Angola, the general Senegambia region, and the Sierra Leone/Liberia region.

  366. RodW says:
    @ThreeCranes

    We also know not to waste time taking intelligence tests since we’ve learned that no good comes of it.

  367. @Okechukwu

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but Nigerians are a clear example of self-selection. We don’t get the average nigerian (IQ of 70-80 something), we get the smart nigerians. If every african had that potential, then history books would be much different. It seems like you are taking the end of the curve and portraying it as an average.

    There are african groups that haven’t been enslaved, an IQ comparison between them and other africans would provide an answer.

    • Replies: @Truth
  368. @Okechukwu

    You’re describing discrete differentiation or speciation, which definitely hasn’t occurred among humans and never will. All phenotypes that are central to survival (intelligence being the most critical) will find expression throughout humanity come hell or high water. That’s basic evolutionary science.

    No, it isn’t. This is incorrect on multiple levels.

    1) If intelligence was “central to survival” as the end all and be all, you’d have intelligent animals everywhere, but you actually see some animals lose their brains entirely. People fetishize intelligence, but its just one useful trait among many.

    2) Having different expressed alleles isn’t speciation; you have different expressed alleles from your grandfather, and genetically slightly different. You’re still in the same family, and the same species. Dogs can interbreed with wolves despite massive differences in phenotype, same goes for the many breeds of horses, etc.

    3)Even assuming an exceptional position for intelligence, it still does not need to necessarily be identical among all populations. This is the convergent evolution position.

    3.1) Evolution only selects for that what is good enough and it only cares about what, not how it genetically develops. African, for example, has pygmy people, and Southeast Asia has pygmy people. They are not genetically related and they almost certainly achieve short stature differently, with different genes being activated, possibly completely independent mutations. Maybe one of them is “better” at being short; we don’t treat as something incredible and fetishized like intelligence, so we don’t argue about it, but different methods of activation likely lead to different efficacies. Insofar as evolutionary selection goes, that doesn’t really matter, all that matters is that pygmies are well suited for their environment. Also worth noting: the smaller brain size of pygmies might adversely affect their intelligence, but so what? When their “smart” and bigger relatives starve to death, then intelligence really isn’t the end-all and be-all.

    3.2) Another example of this is the skin lightening methods in Asians versus Europeans. At some point it became advantageous to have light skin for Vitamin D, but the genetic mechanism for Asian skin lightening is entirely different from Caucasians. It achieves the “purpose” to be light enough for Vitamin D, but it isn’t the same.

    4) Likewise, that some people are slightly or more intelligent is often of minimal consideration for survival. Let’s assume that there’s a mutation that allows someone to remember eight digits instead of seven(which is usual for working memory – appears to be connected to a chemical state maintenance in the brain). Awesome. Incredible. And now he’s born in a hunter-gathering tribe, with the ability to remember phone numbers plus one. Its pretty much useless to him: this isn’t to denigrate hunter-gatherers, who often have incredible long-term memories and great crystalized knowledge of wildlife and plants. Long-term memory is far more useful, and will be selected for, far more than working memory.

    Does the EDAR gene regulate complex traits?

    Yes. “Complex traits” really doesn’t mean anything. EDAR gene affects skin, hair and teeth. They are all complex in the sense that they are polygenic, they are taking inputs from many other genes too. The EDAR gene adds its input, meaningfully altering multiple phenotypes, the most dramatic probably being shoveled teeth.

    A common fallacy is to assume that percentage of identical genes has some sort of immediate correspondence with expression. Well, obviously that isn’t the case in breakdowns: a single mutation causes massive damage, such as in Tay-Sachs. Or consider close human relatives: bonobos are 99% genetically identical to us, but vastly different in phenotype.

    This is junk pseudoscience. There’s nothing in the Kalenjin tribe’s genome or physiology that is unique or exclusive to them. They have a culture of running. Were that culture to fade, they would no longer dominate. Moreover, thin ankles and calves are not complex traits.

    That’s a “God of the Gaps” argument. Its almost certainly genetic in some way, much like how Tibetans,Ethiopians and Andeans(and in an excellent example of convergent evolution, their genetic mechanism is different, too). And furthermore, muscle structure is complex and polygenic, too.

    All such bottlenecking would promote are deleterious mutations, with no effect on intelligence — which is very, very hard to tinker with evolutionarily.

    No. The brain’s plasticity and adaptability is actually an excellent argument for variability.

    This would be true if the entire brain was akin to the brainstem which is indeed similar even to totally different species like reptiles. It controls basic functions such as automatic breathing and heartbeats; mutations lead to death. It remains basically static.

    But the rest of the brain does not behave in that fashion, and indeed, we would not have been able to become human if that was so. Proto-humans would not be able to develop greater cognitive capability if the brain itself was unalterable, but fortunately, that isn’t the case – especially with the most “human” part of our brain, the prefrontal cortex.

    One only needs to look over the history of study of damage to the brain to see how much the brain is able to route around changes and remain functional. Mutations that alter, for example, neurochemical expression would be accepted just fine. If someone, for example, has a serotonin mutation that causes schizoid behavior thirty years later but increases his creativity(entirely possible mechanism), he will probably survive long enough to reproduce. Less harmful variations of his mutation may eventually develop from him.

    A mistake commonly made by many is that “intelligence” is some sort of singular rubric(this is why I dislike the IQ concept), but no, it is indeed complex and the result of numerous subsystems, often hormonally modulated. These systems are quite capable of surviving alteration and where their expression leads to positive traits, will increase in population.

    Neanderthal lineage is a minus, not a plus. Nevertheless, how would trace amounts of DNA from a species that was nearly identical to humans have such a profound impact?

    The effect of an allele, as noted before, can far exceed its “quantity.” And hybrid vigor is a thing, especially after selection effects, something that was regularly practiced by breeders historically.

    So if you have 1000 random Africans and 1000 random Chinese it’s your contention that the Chinese group will be smarter intrinsically? I suspect you wouldn’t bet anything of value on that proposition.

    A non sequitur but yes, I would bet money on it. So would at least a few Igbo elite I know, because even regardless of some sort of assumption of “intrinsic equality”, in practice in the real world, you’re not going to get environmental equality and if you’re going to have to run some sort of bet like that, its wiser to gamble on those who are more likely to have a cognitively enriched environment.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  369. @Factorize

    Not only is the “genetic architecture” almost certainly different, but I think we’d better off just trying to understand how cognition works at all. Polygenic intelligence is pretty self-evident, though, its obvious that there isn’t a single gene controlling some magic that makes the various parts of the brain just work perfectly, have the right sensitivity to neurochemicals, produce the right amount of chemicals, etc.

    But I do see a lot of advancement in this area within the next twenty or so years. Definitely worth keeping an eye on.

    • Replies: @Factorize
  370. Edward says:
    @Okechukwu

    Nigerian-Americans have IQ’s in the 110-115 range.

    It’s telling that you won’t accept peer-reviewed scientific evidence but you feel perfectly free to pontificate on the average IQ of Nigerian-Americans (presumably based on their achievements, in which case the peer-reviewed estimates of sub-Saharan African IQ are likely to be correct too).

    The supposed success of Nigerian-Americans (and sub-Saharan African immigrants to the US in general) is mostly a mirage. We know that they do worse on every metric than Indian-Americans, and our best estimate of the average IQ of Indian-Americans is 112.

    According to the following article, looking at data from 2016, 77-78% of Indian-Americans had an undergraduate degree or more. Taiwanese-Americans have the second highest attainment, with 72.3% having at least an undergraduate degree. Russians, Bulgarians and Egyptians also have a higher educational attainment than Nigerians, of whom only 59.5% had an undergraduate degree or more.

    https://allafrica.com/stories/201803260742.html

    According to the following source, 48% of Hindu-Americans have postgraduate degrees, with 29% holding just an undergraduate degree, meaning that, again, 77% of Hindu-Americans have at least an undergraduate degree. The same data also show that 31% of Jewish-Americans hold postgraduate degrees, with 60% having an undergraduate degree or more.

    http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/educational-distribution/

    The lowest estimate for the educational attainment of Indian-Americans comes from the following source, which suggests that 32% of Indians have only a Bachelor’s degree and 40% have a postgraduate degree, meaning that 72% overall have at least an undergraduate degree.

    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/chart/educational-attainment-of-indian-population-in-the-u-s/

    The highest estimate for Nigerian-Americans finds that only 61% have an undergraduate degree or higher.

    https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/cb17-108-subsaharan.html

    And here we’re just looking at Nigerian-Americans, who are the most successful of the African immigrants. Only 40% of sub-Saharan African immigrants as a whole have an undergraduate degree or higher, compared with 42% of European/Canadian immigrants and 51% of South and East Asian immigrants. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/03/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/

    And remember, we’re comparing the *best* sub-Saharan African immigrants to the best Asian and European immigrants here. But it gets worse. We shouldn’t forget that African immigrants benefit from affirmative action, and that Asian-Americans are discriminated against in the admissions processes of many universities.

    By contrast, the job market is a cut-throat, winner-takes-all domain, in which businesses tend to want to hire the best and only the best. In the job market, even the best performing sub-Saharan African immigrant group – Nigerian-Americans – do poorly. The median household income of Nigerian-Americans is $60,000 (and for sub-Saharan Africans as a whole it is $46,841), whereas the median household income of Asian-Americans is consistently estimated to be between $72,000-$82,000. Jewish and Indian-Americans have the highest median household incomes in the United States, with both having median household incomes of more than $100,000.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/11/how-income-varies-among-u-s-religious-groups/

    https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income.html

    It also helps to explain why, despite Chinese, Korean and Israeli-Americans having a somewhat lower rate of undergraduate degree attainment than Nigerian-Americans, only 16.8% of Chinese-Americans, 14% of Korean-Americans and 10.4% of Israeli-Americans are in occupations where they serve others (service occupations) whereas 21% of Nigerian-Americans and 25% of sub-Saharan African immigrants are in service occupations (such as janitor, cleaner, bartender, maid and food server). Only 7% of Asian Indians are in service occupations, with a whopping 70.1% being in management, business and scientific occupations (compared with only 53% of Nigerian-Americans and 35% of sub-Saharan African immigrants as a whole).

    https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

    The unemployment rate of Nigerian-Americans is 7.2%, and for sub-Saharan Africans as a whole it is 8.0%; it is 4.8% for Korean-Americans, 4.7% for Israeli-Americans, 4.3% for Indian-Americans and 4.2% for Chinese-Americans.

    https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_16_1YR_S0201&prodType=table

    Nigerian-Americans are the most successful sub-Saharan African group in the United States, and sub-Saharan Africans as a whole only do as well as they do because of a highly selective immigration process and affirmative action.

    However, even Nigerian-Americans lag behind many Asian and European immigrant groups educationally, and lag behind even more Asians, Europeans and Jews economically. Sub-Saharan African immigrants as a whole are below-average on every economic metric and do worse than Asians and European immigrants educationally.

    This is a tragedy, but we need to face the facts so that we can move towards a more humane society.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Okechukwu
  371. A little self-serving, perhaps dishonest. If it is true, where is the proof of performance?

    All we have is again turning to racism to justify failure no individual or cultural responsibility here.

  372. Factorize says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “Genetic architecture” with the meaning that intelligence is highly polygenic: Without the GWAS evidence this can only now be assumed for non-European populations.

    The recent Nature Genetics article disclosed 17.00 SD (255 “EA” points) of human Educational Attainment, a trait which is significantly correlated to intelligence. It is no longer plausible to pretend that a new era in human existence is not imminent. As the Nature Genetics article was published on July 23, 2018, it would not be entirely inappropriate to designate April 23, 2019 the birth date of a new species of genetically enhanced humanoids.

    Considering the near vertical trajectory of discovery of new SNPs related to IQ during the last year, it is not unreasonable to expect that an additional 50 SD of IQ could not be uncovered with even larger sized GWAS over the next 2-3 years. The main limiting factor no longer being if such results are possible, but instead how -logistically- such large scale research could be coordinated.

    It is true that such an IQ uplift might begin somewhat gradually. For example, it will likely start with mere embryo selection which might yield only a 1 SD IQ enhancement per generation. {Notably, no national population can claim even a 1 SD IQ advantage over Greenwich mean.}
    Yet, 1 SD IQ uplift would only increase technological change by an order of magnitude.

    Later, perhaps chromosome selection could yield 5 SD of IQ per generation and then a perfected form of CRISPR might conservatively enhance by 25 SD. Doubling human average IQ would likely be sufficient to rapidly initiate the Singularity.

    There are few “ifs” involved in this basic outline. Embryo selection is a reasonably affordable reproductive technology that has been successfully deployed in clinics for decades.

    Those interested in the relatively tiny IQ differences of extant homo sapiens are welcome to continue their discussion.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  373. With this little Python program you can show the percentage of different groups above certain ranges:

    from scipy.stats import norm

    print “Fraction avove 100 for white mean 100, SD 15: {0}”.format(1 – norm.cdf(100, 100, 15))
    print “Fraction avove 115 for white mean 100, SD 15: {0}”.format(1 – norm.cdf(115, 100, 15))
    print “Fraction avove 130 for white mean 100, SD 15: {0}”.format(1 – norm.cdf(130, 100, 15))
    print “Fraction avove 100 for Black mean 85, SD 12: {0}”.format(1 – norm.cdf(100, 85, 12))
    print “Fraction avove 115 for Black mean 85, SD 12: {0}”.format(1 – norm.cdf(115, 85, 12))
    print “Fraction avove 130 for Black mean 85, SD 12: {0:f}”.format(1 – norm.cdf(130, 85, 12))

    Assuming the well known values of Mean 100, SD 15 for whites and Mean 85, SD 12 for blacks:

    The percentage of whites above 100 is 50.0%
    The percentage of blacks above 100 is 10.6%
    The percentage of whites above 115 is 15.9%
    The percentage of blacks above 115 is 0.6%
    The percentage of whites above 130 is 2.3%
    The percentage of blacks above 130 is 0.0088%, or rounded to one decimal place, 0.0%

    Now, think about all those high IQ environments around, like, say Silicon Valley.

    Those numbers accord with my experiences. Any blacks who enter technical positions pretty quickly transition to management.

  374. @Factorize

    Considering the near vertical trajectory of discovery of new SNPs related to IQ during the last year, it is not unreasonable to expect that an additional 50 SD of IQ could not be uncovered with even larger sized GWAS over the next 2-3 years.

    How do we know that there is not, say, a five times over representation of SNPs with each gene related to IQ.

    Perhaps because many SNPs are in linkage disequilibrium with each gene for IQ.

  375. Factorize says:

    The authors corrected for LD by only selecting the most significant SNP for a given genomic window.
    The height GWAS that included 20,000+ SNPs found that there was still marginal information gained even with all these variants. If the SNPs were simply reiterating the information value of previous SNPs, then this would not be true.

    A world saturated with genius will be fantastic!
    There will be an overwhelming amount of wealth generation and social goodwill.
    Let’s get started and make a better life for all!

  376. @Truth

    Thankfully, I have children, so I have practice explaining simple ideas, which is useful here.

    You see, Truth, I’m not racially Japanese, and, therefore, the Japanese people – correctly – don’t want me to live in/invade their country any more than they want Africans to move to their country. The Japanese people believe that their little slice of the earth is the homeland of the Japanese people, and they want to keep it that way. To allow in Europeans or Africans or Indians or anyone other than the Japanese people would mean changing, if not ending, the Japanese people.

    Think of the Japanese as a family with a home. If they allow people to start moving into their home, well, the address will still be the same, but the family won’t be the same.

    You wouldn’t want mommy and daddy to start letting strangers into our home, would you? Of course not. You wouldn’t want mommy and daddy to start loving the children of strangers as much as we love you, would you? Of course not.

    Now get some sleep. All of this will make a lot more sense when you’re older and can better understand the world.

    • Replies: @Truth
  377. Blizzard says:
    @Coos Palmboom

    Learning or knowing languages have nothing to do with IQ. IQ by its definition refers to understanding and solving logical problems, and thus should IQ tests, most of which indeed are, be formulated. Africans have low IQ in that regard, certainly not comparable to the white European which real world observations certainly confirm (you’ll never see a good African mathematician, physicist or scientist, the same way you don’t see good Japanese sprinters or jumpers). Africans are extroverted, loud and talkative people, and “knowing” a language in these modern times is a simple question of learning a couple of hundred or so words and joining them into fairly understandable sentences.You know which people are on the opposite side, introverted and quiet? Germans. Whose scientific explorations and accomplishments are unparalleled in the world, without equals? German.

    In short order, you are confusing knowing a few hundred words, recalling them later on and connecting into sentences with the innate power of understanding and solving problems. First one is charlatan’s play, the second one is intelligence. No wonder you Iberians never managed to make a good scientist. Confusions like this can only happen where intelligence is lacking.

    • Replies: @ANON
  378. @anonymous

    Perhaps, but the Japanese are keenly aware that scale matters. Letting a few dozen or even a few hundred people “become” Japanese a year in a country of 127 million will have no lasting genetic impact.

    Regarding the WN and desperation, you are somewhat correct. However, some of it is simply an awakening to pride not known before. People may find it hard to believe, but my finding my white/European identity so to speak has made me more tolerant of other groups. I joke all the time on iSteve’s board that most of the comments boil down to “What aren’t non-whites and Jews acting like gentile whites?” which, of course, is hilariously ironic on blog that discussing human bio-diversity.

    I have zero fear that if whites start to wake up in any numbers, that the white/European peoples will be fine. We’re an amazingly capable collections of peoples. Now, will we wake in enough numbers? Who knows.

  379. Blizzard says:

    Clown or clowness Chin-sala was “studying” Wakanda Africans obviously, hence its results show that “negroid Africans are at least a good as white Europeans.” It reminds me of some other “scientific” studies, namely that from political “science” studies. This specific case is most revealing one I ever came across (although I am an amateur in these things as I observe them occasionally only and as a hobby of sort):

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/mi/michigan_democratic_presidential_primary-5224.html

    20 “independent” poll studies done through approved “scientific” methods show Clinton winning by 21+% points. Clinton lost that election by 1.5%. Could be that voting machines were changed and someone didn’t have enough time to adjust to that though.

  380. Blizzard says:

    Proof of intelligence of any and all ethnicties, races and sub-races lies in their accomplishments in an untainted form. In other words, like it is with all other logical proves, observations in real life will either prove or refute premises. In African case, the evidence is so overwhelmingly against them even a 6yo child could pass a sentence on the subject. If Africans are really as smart as chinsalas say they are, Africans would never have any problem of building a civilization or proving themselves in science. The most complex structure Africans by themselves ever built was Tomb of Askia, and their most advanced civilization ever formed was Songhai Empire.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Askia

    Incas in South America were building cities made of stones in the skies. Africans, a race renown for their intelligence whose engineering skills are on par with the Europeans, well according to studies made by chinsalas, were building structures made of mud and straw.

    “Since the dawn of history the Negro has owned the continent of Africa – rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet and yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light.

    His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled. A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour. In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud. With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail.”

    • Replies: @Jm8
  381. Jm8 says:
    @Blizzard

    The passage you quote regarding subsaharan African cultures is by and large highly inaccurate. The polemic, whose source and author is (not Darwin as some mistakenly claim, but) Klan revivalist Thomas F. Dixon from his book “The Klansman: An Historical Romance of the Ku Klux Klan”—and easily searchable), has no authority or value whatsoever regarding African history and archaeology, and it is hard to see what the purpose of quoting it could have been.

    https://ncse.com/blog/2015/09/dixon-not-darwin-0016631

    “A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrowhead worth preserving beyond the moment of its use.”
    “”He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour.”

    This is untrue. Tools of stone and iron and other metals were made and preserved in Africa as in other regions. Knives, swords, spears, farm implements, nails and other tools of iron (which was worked in West Africa from an early date) were used and preserved (and sometimes, as another regions, they also took the form of long-lasting prestige objects, that were passed on in families and sometimes buried with the dead). The overwhelming majority of native African cultures (those of Niger-Congo,Nilo-Saharan and Afro-Asiatic stock) were agricultural and/or pastoral for millennia before contact with Europeans. The growing and storing of crops (and the raising of livestock) were the common subsistence staples (supplemented by hunting and fishing). Hunter-gatherers were rare and only found sparsely: the Pygmies in central Africa, in the Khoisan of Southern Africa, and a few tiny tribes in and around Tanzania like the Hadza, Sandawe and Akie)

    In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud.”

    “The most complex structure Africans by themselves ever built was Tomb of Askia….”

    Neither of the above are true. There are many structures in subsaharan Africa more impressive than the tomb of Askia; among them the moats and earthworks of Benin and old Ijebu in Yorubaland (the giant Sungbo’ Eredo), the Mosque of Djenne (reconstructed on the site from an even larger mosque built in the the 1200s-early 1300s ad), the complex and often ornate wooden architecture styles of the Cameroonian grassland peoples (such as the Bamileke, Bamoum, Bandjoun and Bafut, and the large stone-walled palatial complexes of the medieval Bantu kingdoms of southern Africa (at sites like Great Zimbabwe, Dananbombe, Khami, Mapungubwe, and Naletale—).

    The sawing, joining and working of lumber and timber was widely necessary and common in may regions, as the common styles of house buildings usually required a wooden/timber frame (sometimes underlying adobe or mud/mud brick as in Central/Southern Nigeria and South Ghana (where courtyard buildings of adobe with a wooden frame were common), or in structures largely made of bamboo (as in the Congo region and much of Central Africa) or wood as in the Cameroon grasslands region (Bamileke, Bamoum, Bandjoun tribes, etc).

    Examples of buildings, cities and civilizations in subsaharan Africa are include those of the West African kingdoms, such as of: Ashanti, the Nigerian Yoruba (their city-states which included Ife, Ijebu, Owo, Owu,Oyo and Udu among others), the Nigerian kingdom of Benin, ancient pre-Islamic Mali and its riverine towns including Jenne Jeno and its late successor town Djenne), some Central African states (like those of the e.g. the Cameroon Bamileke, Bamoum, Bafut, etc.) had several traditions of complex and (sometimes grand/monumental) building in wood.

    The Nigerian Benin kingdom built a large system of moats and earthworks (earth fortifications. Many Yoruba city-states (of Central Nigeria, the Yoruba are historically very urban and prone to forming/clustering in towns and trading)—like Owu, Ijebu, Owo, Udo and Ife (esp. the first two) had similar moat-wall systems often carved out of the bedrock (or laterite). The largest in Yorubaland was around the City state of Ijebu and is known as Sungbo’s Eredo (built ca 700 AD). (These were also somewhat similar to some of the earthworks of parts of ancient Europe (like of some Celtic groups or the Anglo-Saxon Offa’s dyke), or to the works of the Native American mound builder culture except that the mound-builder structures were not for defense)
    The Bini of Benin City/Benin kingdom such structures as well, as did (to a somewhat lesser extent and scale) their Edo-speaking relatives the Ishan/Esan a bit to the north of them. The Benin earthworks and the Eredo and other similar structures, were/are monumental:

    the Benin City one was begun around 700-800 AD in its early phase.
    The Eredo, built in 800 AD is roughly the size of Manhattan), and the Benin kingdom moat are also extremely extensive (built in stages between the 800s and the 1300s AD and said to have a combined length about equal to the great wall of China.

    Central Nigeria also had the Nok culture 1,600 BC-200 AD and south East Nigeria had the the Igbo Ukwu and Kalabari cultures (advanced metalwork, states/priest kingdoms, and the Nsibidi script—and a development of iron working in the same region of S.E Nigeria at Nsukka from ca 2,000-1,500 BC). Many of these cultures are also noted for their high-quality court arts, including sculpture in terra-cotta, and in many cases bronze/brass, ivory, gold (and other metals) and textiles (e.g.: at Ife, Owo Ijebu, Nok, Benin, the Igbo Ukwu culture of Southeast Nigeria, Jenne-Jeno, as well as Ashanti the BaKuba kingdom of Zaire and the kingdom of Kongo.

    Evidence indicates that the ancestors of the Igbo in S.E Nigeria were among the first peoples to smelt iron (beginning around 2,000 bc) in one of the few independent inventions of iron metallurgy (the other being in Turkey around the same time). The Nok culture of central Nigeria were also early users of Iron.

    http://www.academia.edu/4103707/Iron_and_its_influence_on_the_prehistoric_site_of_Lejja

    The Eredo of Ijebu in Yorubaland:

    https://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/sungbo_eredo.htm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sungbo%27s_Eredo

    a section of the moat of Owu (another Yoruba city)—not to be confused with the
    Yoruba city of Owo:

    https://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/orile_owu.htm

    Parts of the Benin earthworks (map of the wall/earthwork complex representing the various walls of the towns and city districts and subsections, at bottom of first link below):

    https://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/benin_Iya_earthworks.htm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walls_of_Benin

    A few pre-colonial images of Benin City:

    http://www.therealafrican.com/2017/04/benin-the-nigerian-city-that-made-the-europeans-jealous/

    The moat/wall of Udo:

    https://csweb.bournemouth.ac.uk/africanlegacy/udo_town_wall.htm

    The Ashanti of Ghana built temples, palaces and large structures and cities (as did some of the Nigerian states, The Sahelians (of the Mali region, large walled towns—some of stone, others mud-brick—created by Mande tribes like the Soninke and Mandinka: Jenne-Djenno 300 BC-1300 AD, Dia Shoma ca. 900 BC-200 AD, Dhar Tichitt ca 1700 BC-700 BC , and later post-Islam Djenne with its mosque and various urban house styles etc) And the Cameroonian grassland zone kingdoms Bamileke, Bamoum, Bafut, Bandjoun and several other peoples of that region had and still have a complex and often somewhat ornate and grand (style of) wooden architecture.

    Some of the architecture of the Ghanaian Ashanti kingdom:

    http://omgvoice.com/news/life-ashanti-region19th-century/

    Some of and distinct style of architecture of the aforementioned Cameroonian kingdoms—down past the first few ancient Nubian images at the top of the forum thread):

    http://historum.com/middle-eastern-african-history/58840-diversity-early-african-architecture-ruins-thread-16.html

    There is the also the (more modest but still significant) medieval Hausa architecture and walls of Kano city (and other Hausa cities like Zaria and Katsina) North Nigeria, and Kingdom of Dahomey somewhat later (in the modern Republic of Benin, not to be confused with the Kingdom of Benin which is in Nigeria—each belonging to different and mostly unrelated ethnic groups)

    The claim a lack of seafaring is also not quite accurate, though it is closer to the truth. But the same can be said generally of Amerindian cultures, even the more advanced ones, and this likely has a lot to do with geography. Africa has few substantial island archipelagoes or island groups near the mainland of the kind where seafaring cultures usually evolve—those that exist are relatively minor and do not extend too far out to see—: like the Greeks had in the Aegean, the Norse in Northern Europe, or the Polynesians and Micronesians (and related peoples) and their seafaring ancestors deriving from SE Asia. The Mayans, Incas/other Andeans, and Aztecs/Toltecs/other Central Americans (the most advanced of the Amerindians) generally did little seafaring. The Amerindians that traveled most and farthest by sea were the relatively non-advanced Carib and Arawak Indians (who settled the Caribbean from Venezuela) and, to a lesser extent, the Indians of the North American NorthWest Coast.

    In SS Africa however, seafaring was not nonexistent, and substantial seafaring boats made of joined wood (about the same size and the very large canoes used by the US Indians of British Colombia) for deep sea fishing, travel to nearby islands, and trading along the coast were used by peoples along the West Africa Coast (before European contact—some of the first Europeans described them when they arrived) by coastal tribes like the Wolof and Lebu of Senegal, the Fanti and Ga in Ghana, and some of the Bantu tribes of coastal Central Africa like the Cameroonian Douala. Ethnolinguist Roger Blench has proposed that early proto Bantu in Central Africa (or branches thereof) may have spread along the Gabon-Congo Coast (the neolithic ancestors of the Bantu Bubi tribe of the Fernando Po/Bioko islands colonized them from the mainland millennia before Europeans arrived. And native Africans from the West coast colonized the Bissagos islands (where their descendants still live) many millennia before contact as well. There is also some (albeit tentative) evidence that fisherman and traders of certain West Africa cultures (Parts of South east Nigeria) occasionally reached as far as Gabon and the Northern Congo. In the case of Cape Verde, it’s earliest confirmed (and most likely) discovery is by the Portuguese, though there are claims (albeit unproven) that fisherman of the Senegalese Lebu tribe might have rarely visited it before.

    Baganda craft:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=baganda+boats&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiF8OHPkr_WAhUlL8AKHXXpCkkQ_AUICigB&biw=1438&bih=750#imgrc=DdS_WDmKMDa6MM:

    Large boats were built by the African groups that lived along large navigable rivers (like the Niger) and lakes (like lake Chad and the lakes of Uganda/Rwanda/Burundi.
    Along the Malian Middle Niger long canoe-like cargo barges (make of pieces of wood sewn together) are traditional and are used by various tribes that have lived by fishing and/or riverine trade (the Bozo, Somono, Songhai)—these (the larger ones that is) likely go back at least to the times of Djenne Jeno and (the older) Dia when specialized groups of river traders began to exist (specialized fisherman, go back much further, but their boats may have tended smaller since they were not then yet cargo-bearing—although the ancestors of the Songhai with their traditions of hunting hippos and crocodiles by boat may have had larger craft earlier. The Ugandan Baganda kingdom had a fleet of boats made for joined wood, as did certain tribes of the S.E Nigerian Niger (some of which had a small deck/cabin at the front—also of joined wood)—though these were of course much smaller than ocean-going ships)

  382. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    And the original mosque of Djenne (meant to include in last post): 3rd image down at 1st link, sketched by explorer Felix Dubois:

    https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-africa/west-africa/mali1/a/great-mosque-of-djenne

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_Djenné

  383. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @Okechukwu

    You are of course joking. I wonder how many will see that.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  384. ANON[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @Blizzard

    I don’t know if it’s intelligence that is lacking in those that grossly over simplify at best. I recall many years of fairly high IQ classes of the same maths and Latin students and there was an obviously high correlation between being good at one and being good at the other. All were conscientious in the sense that they were working with a view to getting into preferred university courses.

  385. Anon[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jm8

    Thank you for compiling that though I suspect it is wasted on the likes of Blizzard.

  386. Peasant says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    ‘The question breaks any linear rule that skin color has a corner on IQ rates.’

    Skin colour isn’t race. African albinos are not caucasoid Europeans. Before deciding to write off a century’s worth of iq data you need to actually get a grip on the concepts you are talking about.

    This is embarrasing and the other troll that keeps agreeing with you has a major chip on his shoulder.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  387. Talha says:
    @Jm8

    Thanks for the comprehensive post, much appreciated!

    Peace.

  388. @Thomm

    hay H(indoo)1-B scab!!

    Howdy Higger?? Don’t forget to wipe your slumdoggie ass with that toilet paper I left for you there

    • Replies: @Thomm
  389. Truth says:
    @Bombercommand

    My Friend, I have tried to explain this to you quickly and succinctly, as I really don’t argue back and forth on this thread.

    There is very little evidence of ANYTHING, only deception. You have no idea of what went on 5 or 6,000 years ago. Only what they want you to believe.

    https://quotefancy.com/quote/801/George-Orwell-He-who-controls-the-past-controls-the-future-He-who-controls-the-present

    You are the type of guy who believes that we live on a spinning ball hurdling through space, that somehow keeps all of the water from falling to the bottom or spinning off. There is little motivation for me to “argue” with you. Do some learning on theories that come from the alternative, and then get back to me.

  390. Truth says:
    @InterestedSkeptic

    You are wrong and I will correct you as this is quite possibly the silliest misconception oft repeated on this site (and that’s saying a lot).

    There is no self selection, there is no IQ test given to Africans who enter the immigration lottery, or are brought over to the US from familial ties. Even is there was and a somehow the US was covertly able to cherry-pick Africans that were, say, 2 SD’a above their 70-IQ brethren, a black SD is only 7 points, so that would peg the brilliant Africans who come here at an IQ of 84.

    PS: “Igbo” was once “Heboo” is, according to some a Southern, white euphemism of “Hebrew”, which you might find as interesting as I do…

    But probably won’t.

    • Replies: @Jm8
  391. @Jm8

    I appreciate this and would have bookmarked the post if Unz allows me to. One of the few unhysterical posts on African achievement here.

  392. @Okechukwu

    Black Americans are likely the highest IQ population in the world.

    You never go full retard.

  393. Truth says:
    @Edward

    The supposed success of Nigerian-Americans (and sub-Saharan African immigrants to the US in general) is mostly a mirage. We know that they do worse on every metric than Indian-Americans, and our best estimate of the average IQ of Indian-Americans is 112.

    So do Northern-European immigrants to the US, and your point is?

  394. Truth says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    …I hear Greenland is nice as well.

  395. Jm8 says:
    @Truth

    Some (often somewhat old/archaic) dialects of English (in some parts of Britain, the Caribbean, and likely parts of America at one time if not still) place (or used to place) an “H” Sound in front of vowels at the beginnings of words, so Igbo (which is pronounced “Ibo”) would become “Heebo”, and “I am” would be pronounced like “I ham”, for instance. I have heard English-speaking West Indians/Caribbeans do this, and it is derived from the influence of certain regional dialects from the British Isles (where it is now rarer), (and may seen in the renderings of a few regional British dialects in old literature). Also, in England, dropping the “H” at the beginnings of words was (and still often is) considered low class, and some (lower class people)in some regions likely tried to overcorrect by adding Hs where they did not belong (similar types of overcorrections in lower class speech, sometimes, ironically, become new markers of lower classness).

    • Replies: @Jm8
    , @Truth
    , @Peasant
  396. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit “…in England, dropping the “H” at the beginnings of words was (and still often is) considered low class (H-dropping is, of course, overall more common there than extra H-adding)

  397. Truth says:
    @Jm8

    Yes, as in ‘Enry Cooper.

    But the slave trade (allegedly) happened in Charleston, SC, not London.

    • Replies: @Jm8
    , @iffen
  398. Jm8 says:
    @Truth

    Yes, it happened in the US , largely, but not only, in the southeast. The white settlers there came mostly from England and the British isles, and brought various dialects with them from there to America, which have since evolved and changed both in the US and Britain. And the adding extra letter H is, for one, actually especially common in the southeastern US dialects of Appalachia, especially before a letter “I”, where, for example, “it” is pronounced as “hit”,

    • Replies: @Jm8
  399. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If intelligence was “central to survival” as the end all and be all, you’d have intelligent animals everywhere, but you actually see some animals lose their brains entirely. People fetishize intelligence, but its just one useful trait among many.

    An organism’s evolutionary pathway is shaped by the environmental challenges to its physiology and morphology. Those animals are more optimally adapted to the earthly environment. Humans are outliers in the sense that absent intelligence they are otherwise ill-equipped to survive here. Humans don’t have night vision or thick hides or flight or a keen sense of smell. Humans don’t have the brute strength, sharp claws and long canines with tremendous bite force that can take down prey. Humans lack these and a plethora of other attributes and senses that mitigate the lack of high cognitive functions in animals. Without the intelligence that enable humans to create tools, use language, think abstractly, engage in culture and dramatically modify their environment, they would’ve passed from the genetic record a very long time ago. Intelligence is the equalizer for the weak, fragile and otherwise physiologically unremarkable humans. Hence intelligence is the primary survival trait. And hence intelligence has an equal survival value in every human environment.

    Having different expressed alleles isn’t speciation; you have different expressed alleles from your grandfather, and genetically slightly different. You’re still in the same family, and the same species.

    True, if those expressed alleles modulate hair texture or skin color. But you seem to be going much further into the domain of differentiation in intelligence, which indeed would denote speciation.

    Dogs can interbreed with wolves despite massive differences in phenotype.

    You would be better served by a reference to wolf breeds, a naturally occurring species, rather than the human-made frankensteinian creation that are dogs. Which goes further to make my point. There are a great many wolf breeds throughout the world, yet there seems to be no appreciable difference between them in group intelligence.

    Even assuming an exceptional position for intelligence, it still does not need to necessarily be identical among all populations. This is the convergent evolution position.

    Then you have the duty to explain why all levels of intelligence are exhibited in every population.

    Evolution only selects for that what is good enough and it only cares about what, not how it genetically develops.

    Evolution has no goal other than survival, genetic preservation and the avoidance of extinction. But it ultimately fails at that task as all living organisms are bound ultimately to succumb to the challenges posed by ever-changing and ever-fluid natural forces, as over 99% of the species that have lived on earth have discovered.

    Another example of this is the skin lightening methods in Asians versus Europeans. At some point it became advantageous to have light skin for Vitamin D, but the genetic mechanism for Asian skin lightening is entirely different from Caucasians. It achieves the “purpose” to be light enough for Vitamin D, but it isn’t the same.

    Exactly. Even for a simple trait like light skin tone, which was engendered by a tiny tweak to a pre-existing African gene, nature found a way to express the same phenotype via different genetic pathways. How then do you imagine that something as polygenically loaded as the human brain isn’t going to have the tools to get to the same place by way of different paths?

    Yes. “Complex traits” really doesn’t mean anything. EDAR gene affects skin, hair and teeth. They are all complex in the sense that they are polygenic, they are taking inputs from many other genes too. The EDAR gene adds its input, meaningfully altering multiple phenotypes, the most dramatic probably being shoveled teeth.

    Nope. EDAR evolved from a tiny tweak — a single base change in a single gene. Moreover, it can’t be all that complex if scientists are injecting mice with it:

    Modeling recent human evolution in mice by expression of a selected EDAR variant

    An adaptive variant of the human Ectodysplasin receptor, EDARV370A, is one of the strongest candidates of recent positive selection from genome-wide scans. We have modeled EDAR370A in mice and characterized its phenotype and evolutionary origins in humans. Our computational analysis suggests the allele arose in Central China approximately 30,000 years ago. Although EDAR370A has been associated with increased scalp hair thickness and changed tooth morphology in humans, its direct biological significance and potential adaptive role remain unclear. We generated a knock-in mouse model and find that, as in humans, hair thickness is increased in EDAR370A mice. We identify novel biological targets affected by the mutation, including mammary and eccrine glands. Building on these results, we find that EDAR370A is associated with an increased number of active eccrine glands in the Han Chinese.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3575602/

    Or consider close human relatives: bonobos are 99% genetically identical to us, but vastly different in phenotype.

    Show me a bonobo that can do algebraic equations or operate an automobile or perform neurosurgery. As there isn’t a single function that one human group (or race) can perform that another cannot, it should be assumed, correctly, that all human groups are equal in intelligence. Full stop. Nature doesn’t do “averages” with regard to complex survival traits. Either an organism has something or it doesn’t. And there’s really no way to gauge what the real averages are. It’s entirely possible that the smartest people in the world, on average, are in sub-Saharan Africa. Given their rich genetic endowment that postulate is not without rationale.

    That’s a “God of the Gaps” argument. Its almost certainly genetic in some way, much like how Tibetans,Ethiopians and Andeans(and in an excellent example of convergent evolution, their genetic mechanism is different, too). And furthermore, muscle structure is complex and polygenic, too.

    Then identify a human group or race that is unable to function in any human environment or is unable to undertake the most intellectually rigorous tasks. If it’s genetic, then it must necessarily have occurred via speciation, the pseudoscience pertaining to Ethiopians and Tibetans notwithstanding. But we all know that humans have not speciated.

    No. The brain’s plasticity and adaptability is actually an excellent argument for variability.

    Not in the short evolutionary timescales we’re talking about. Early modern humans already had a fully developed brain before they started dispersing in and out of Africa. That’s why they’re called MODERN HUMANS. There just hasn’t been enough time to effect the kind of change you seem to be pining for against all the evidence.

    But the rest of the brain does not behave in that fashion, and indeed, we would not have been able to become human if that was so. Proto-humans would not be able to develop greater cognitive capability if the brain itself was unalterable, but fortunately, that isn’t the case – especially with the most “human” part of our brain, the prefrontal cortex.

    You have a grave misapprehension of how this stuff works. Humans advance by standing on the shoulders o previous generations of humans, not by some radical mutation that enhances cognition. Evidence suggests that, indeed, some proto-humans in Africa may have been smarter than today’s humans.

    What Happened to the Hominids Who May Have Been Smarter Than Us?

    Expanding the brain changes its internal proportions in highly predictable ways. From ape to human, the brain grows about fourfold, but most of that increase occurs in the cortex, not in more ancient structures. Moreover, even within the cortex, the areas that grow by far the most are the association areas, while cortical structures such as those controlling sensory and motor mechanisms stay unchanged.

    Going from human to Boskop, these association zones are even more disproportionately expanded. Boskop’s brain size is about 30 percent larger than our own—that is, a 1,750-cc brain to our average of 1,350 cc. And that leads to an increase in the prefrontal cortex of a staggering 53 percent. If these principled relations among brain parts hold true, then Boskops would have had not only an impressively large brain but an inconceivably large prefrontal cortex.

    The prefrontal cortex is closely linked to our highest cognitive functions. It makes sense out of the complex stream of events flowing into the brain; it places mental contents into appropriate sequences and hierarchies; and it plays a critical role in planning our future actions. Put simply, the prefrontal cortex is at the heart of our most flexible and forward-looking thoughts.

    While your own prefrontal area might link a sequence of visual material to form an episodic memory, the Boskop may have added additional material from sounds, smells, and so on. Where your memory of a walk down a Parisian street may include the mental visual image of the street vendor, the bistro, and the charming little church, the Boskop may also have had the music coming from the bistro, the conversations from other strollers, and the peculiar window over the door of the church. Alas, if only the Boskop had had the chance to stroll a Parisian boulevard!

    http://discovermagazine.com/2009/the-brain-2/28-what-happened-to-hominids-who-were-smarter-than-us

    But the Boskop lacked the store of knowledge and the experience honed over tens of thousands of years of trial and error. Einstein would’ve been useless if dropped in the Kalahari desert. Because lacking experience, he would have no clue as to how to survive there.

    One only needs to look over the history of study of damage to the brain to see how much the brain is able to route around changes and remain functional.

    Yeah, a bullet to the brain will alter its functionality, assuming the victim survives. The human body has a remarkable capacity to heal. The end result of that healing process is always inferior to the original unblemished product.

    A mistake commonly made by many is that “intelligence” is some sort of singular rubric(this is why I dislike the IQ concept), but no, it is indeed complex and the result of numerous subsystems, often hormonally modulated. These systems are quite capable of surviving alteration and where their expression leads to positive traits, will increase in population.

    I would agree with this assessment. Although where we part ways is your contention (with absolutely no proof to support it) that some groups or races were magically gifted with unique mechanisms for cognitive enhancement that other groups or races lack. Our real world experience doesn’t support this notion, nor does history.

    The effect of an allele, as noted before, can far exceed its “quantity.” And hybrid vigor is a thing, especially after selection effects

    But we don’t see any positive impact from these Neanderthal genetic contributions in relation to those without Neanderthal alleles. What’s more, the carriers of Neanderthal DNA include Australian Aborigines, which according to HBD exponents represent a sort of sub-human line. And if hybrid vigor is a thing why aren’t you heralding the hybridized African-Americans? Their European genetic quotient exceeds the Neanderthal genetic contribution to Europeans by 1000%.

    A non sequitur but yes, I would bet money on it. So would at least a few Igbo elite I know, because even regardless of some sort of assumption of “intrinsic equality”

    As an Igbo myself I can assure you that there probably isn’t a single Igbo on this planet that thinks the Chinese are intrinsically smarter than them. Believing that other people are smarter or better just isn’t how the Igbos roll. It’s anathema.

    something that was regularly practiced by breeders historically.

    The thing is, humans aren’t bred by breeders. Through a dedicated program of artificial selection scientists could probably produce humans with certain deleterious phenotypes. Maybe people with four fingers or three toes. But could they produce more intelligent humans? Not on your life. It’s not like it hasn’t been tried before. Certain communities who presumed themselves to be brilliant and superior have sought to confine marriage and procreation to within the group (royal families and certain ruling classes and such). All that resulted from these real world experiments was the production of dullards and other forms of dysgenics.

  400. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    (I had initially forgotten about the American south/Appalachian example for some reason it’s a pretty well known one in linguistics)

    • Replies: @Jm8
  401. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    H-adding (called “h retention”) is still common in Appalachia but was probably more common in some of the surrounding and nearby regions in previous centuries (it’s kind of an old fashioned feature which some dialects that may have had it have lost)

    • Replies: @iffen
  402. Okechukwu says:
    @Jm8

    This is incredibly cogent and instructive material. I’ve always admired your erudition in Africa history and culture. Splendidly done.

    I will add that the Ife bronzes remain unsurpassed. Only an extremely advanced and sophisticated culture could create those works. Even the best European sculptors were unable to render naturalism, perspective and beauty quite on that scale of excellence.

    With respect to seafaring, that doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Europe was made for seafaring. It’s essentially a large peninsula off the Eurasian mainland surrounded by islands in river estuaries and islands just off shore, allowing them to start with baby steps. Also, Europe had tranquil interior waters and abundant natural harbors. Lastly, it had the benefit of the great seafaring traditions of the Mediterranean.

    Africans would’ve had little need to go sailing to distant shores. The continent itself was as large as oceans and at the time underpopulated. To give you a sense of the size of Africa, the sailing distance from Europe to America is shorter than the distance between West and East Africa. Most of the African interior is a vast, elevated plateau cut off from the narrow coastal plain by mountains and escarpments. And tremendous rapids made most of its rivers were unnagivable. Tiny Europe has more coastline that massive Africa.

    Nonetheless, as you noted, Africans did take to the seas closer to shore. Their war canoes often engaged and defeated European navies.

  403. @Okechukwu

    Without the intelligence that enable humans to create tools, use language, think abstractly, engage in culture and dramatically modify their environment, they would’ve passed from the genetic record a very long time ago.

    If this was true, then none of our primate relatives would exist. Human-level intelligence as we understand it is not absolute for survival, although our habitat would have been much, much smaller.

    But you seem to be going much further into the domain of differentiation in intelligence, which indeed would denote speciation.

    Although speciation is not a well-defined term, the best definition are “animals that are capable of breeding vigorous offspring.” It is entirely possible for animals with different traits such as intelligence to still be able to breed vigorous offspring. This is self-evident, a population that for example, was hereditarily disposed to develop OCD would still be able to breed with humans without the genes and have vigorous offspring. The OCD genes would remain, and yes, affect “intelligence” when it had anything to do with OCD triggers.

    Exactly. Even for a simple trait like light skin tone, which was engendered by a tiny tweak to a pre-existing African gene, nature found a way to express the same phenotype via different genetic pathways. How then do you imagine that something as polygenically loaded as the human brain isn’t going to have the tools to get to the same place by way of different paths?

    Because just because something is good enough for a certain environment doesn’t mean that it is the exact equivalent or superior to what has been developed for a different environment. This is why invasive species are such a threat to native wildlife: it isn’t, for example, that native ants are poorly adapted for their environment, but invasive ants destroy them by being better adapted. Similar case with the Tasmanian wolf with competition from invasive dogs and innumerable other species.

    Its all randomness. Just because a goal has been achieved by a certain pathway, doesn’t mean that someone else didn’t achieve that goal via a different, better pathway. Evolution will only be able to do what is good enough.

    You have a grave misapprehension of how this stuff works. Humans advance by standing on the shoulders o previous generations of humans, not by some radical mutation that enhances cognition. Evidence suggests that, indeed, some proto-humans in Africa may have been smarter than today’s humans.

    Hardly. Read it yourself(and obviously, I’m talking about our evolution from chimpanzee ancestors).

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/big-brain-gene-allowed-for-evolutionary-expansion-of-human-neocortex/

    The reason why we can do things and bonobos can’t, is because of the neocortex. Its not “genes” per se, which is why I keep explaining that the number of differences doesn’t actually have much to do with the phenotypical expression. A small change basically allowed us to grow an entire section of the brain which is not found in our cousins. And resulting “change”, almost a new organ in itself, is what gives us typically human capabilities.

    Not in the short evolutionary timescales we’re talking about. Early modern humans already had a fully developed brain before they started dispersing in and out of Africa. That’s why they’re called MODERN HUMANS.

    Evolution doesn’t have a set timescale. If anything, bottlenecks make it go faster. The red kangaroo evolves very quickly, since they have close to 80% loss after each drought, while their gray cousins evolve much slower. Part of their survival method are behavioral changes, so its obviously something that evolution can change.

    Yeah, a bullet to the brain will alter its functionality, assuming the victim survives. The human body has a remarkable capacity to heal. The end result of that healing process is always inferior to the original unblemished product.

    Untrue. Again, if that was the case, then all evolution would be impossible as well. And there are trauma-induced geniuses.

    https://www.isegoria.net/2018/03/why-some-people-become-sudden-geniuses/

    The brain is no more perfectly optimized than anything else that we as human beings are. We’re good enough to survive so far, and that’s it. The rest must come from selection effects in our environment.

    I would agree with this assessment. Although where we part ways is your contention (with absolutely no proof to support it) that some groups or races were magically gifted with unique mechanisms for cognitive enhancement that other groups or races lack. Our real world experience doesn’t support this notion, nor does history.

    No magic is needed. Local genetic differences and capabilities are well established for a variety of other traits(such as high altitude adaptation), there’s no reason why intelligence is unique. Again, it needs not to be fetishized; its a product of the brain, and the brain is an organ like anything else.

    And if hybrid vigor is a thing why aren’t you heralding the hybridized African-Americans? Their European genetic quotient exceeds the Neanderthal genetic contribution to Europeans by 1000%

    Although I don’t really care, I actually would argue that if they went through a bottleneck effect, they would actually have more genetic tools by which they could develop improvements from. Its perfectly sensible.

    The thing is, humans aren’t bred by breeders. Through a dedicated program of artificial selection scientists could probably produce humans with certain deleterious phenotypes. Maybe people with four fingers or three toes. But could they produce more intelligent humans? Not on your life.

    They’ve succeeded within limits.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_family

    But more importantly, such efforts were never really that rigorous as were used by breeders.

    As an Igbo myself I can assure you that there probably isn’t a single Igbo on this planet that thinks the Chinese are intrinsically smarter than them. Believing that other people are smarter or better just isn’t how the Igbos roll. It’s anathema.

    The correct answer is this is clearly that you do not know all Igbo because otherwise my trainee is imaginary. Yeah, no.

    You clearly have an agenda that you wish to advance due to your beliefs. But reality is clearly different, and more importantly for me, its the only way we can actually work with cognition in the future. Assuming a magical steady state is both untrue, and of negative epistemic value toward neuroscience and our ability to alter cognition(and its results, such as intelligence) going forward.

  404. Okechukwu says:
    @Anon

    You are of course joking. I wonder how many will see that.

    No I’m not. Even James Flynn says that it’s entirely possible that black Americans have a genetic advantage in IQ which is overwhelmed by the environmental disadvantages.

  405. @Daniel Chieh

    The correct answer is this is clearly that you do not know all Igbo because otherwise my trainee is imaginary. Yeah, no.

    Oh, I should add – he also grew up in a boarding school, was exceptionally disciplined, and deeply frustrated by other blacks. If he became God of Zimbabwe somehow, he said that he would implement computer systems to monitor everything, such was his distrust of his fellows due to corruption and do everything possible to crush divergent customs, cliques, tribes, etc which he identified as a fatal clannish weakness. He specifically admired the British boarding school system as a positive good.

    So no, he wouldn’t say that it was a genetic fault. Major cultural issues, but still major issues.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  406. Okechukwu says:
    @Edward

    It’s telling that you won’t accept peer-reviewed scientific evidence but you feel perfectly free to pontificate on the average IQ of Nigerian-Americans (presumably based on their achievements, in which case the peer-reviewed estimates of sub-Saharan African IQ are likely to be correct too)

    But peer reviews haven’t exactly been kind to the kind of racialist pseudoscience you are spouting. What is the scientific and academic consensus on the works of Richard Lynn, Philip Rushton, Charles Murray, Linda Gottfredson, etc? They’re universally regarded as scientific racists.

    The supposed success of Nigerian-Americans (and sub-Saharan African immigrants to the US in general) is mostly a mirage.

    Is that right?

    It Isn’t Just Asian Immigrants Who Thrive in the U.S.

    Perhaps most surprising is that, by many measures, the most-educated immigrant group in the U.S. isn’t East Asians. It’s Africans.

    According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher — slightly more than immigrants from East Asia. Nigerian immigrants are especially educated, with almost two-thirds holding college degrees — a significantly higher percentage even than Chinese or South Korean immigrants. African immigrants are also very likely to hold advanced degrees, many of which are earned at U.S. universities. By many measures, African immigrants are as far ahead of American whites in the educational achievement as whites are ahead of African-Americans.

    That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s-

    Nigerian-Americans are the most successful sub-Saharan African group in the United States, and sub-Saharan Africans as a whole only do as well as they do because of a highly selective immigration process and affirmative action.

    There’s no evidence to suggest that African immigrants to the United States are selected for anything. A dumb African with family connections is much more likely to immigrate than a smart African without. And Affirmative Action applies to Asians and Indians as well. They also have Protected Class status. If a company wants to diversify or promote non-whites to high level positions, an Asian or Indian will do.

    • Replies: @Edward
  407. @Okechukwu

    Nope. EDAR evolved from a tiny tweak — a single base change in a single gene. Moreover, it can’t be all that complex if scientists are injecting mice with it:

    Forgot this.

    Genes aren’t somehow uniquely “complex.” They are just blueprints for protein creation.

    It is traits that are “complex and polygenic.” Teeth is complex and polygenic, for example(uses multiple genes). EDAR is an excellent example of a single gene change causing significant phenotypical difference, since it alters dermal creation, which affects all facets of the integumentary system.

    Again, genes impacting cognition are not unique, even though cognition is polygenic.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-science-mice-brain/mice-given-human-brain-gene-learned-tasks-faster-study-idUKKBN0HA21M20140915

    In fact, the entire distinction between “hereditary” and “environment” is somewhat artificial. Let’s oversimplify things and just say that dopamine increases motivation. This is often negative in harsh environments, thus why cats spend so much time resting, but anyway, with humans it is usually seen as a positive. One of its results would be greater observed effort and accomplishment: “intelligence.”

    So say that that we have a way of injecting a bit more dopamine into the brain of our subject, increasing his motivation. Made him “smarter.”

    Or, he has a gene that aberrently increases his dopamine production a bit. His motivation is greater. He’s “smarter” due to his genes.

    Mechanically, there’s not that much difference. If you can accept one, then the other isn’t difficult to see. In practice, we also have to deal with receptor sensitive, his increased OCDness, brain regions, etc, etc, but the strict mechanical foundations of this is very sound.

  408. iffen says:
    @Truth

    But the slave trade (allegedly) happened in Charleston, SC, not London.

    But the people in London picked up quite a few bucks from the trade.

  409. iffen says:
    @Jm8

    is still common in Appalachia

    I think common would be problematic. I am from the southern extremity of Appalachia. My Grandparents always said hit. It took me a while to understand what they were saying. My parents never said hit. My children and grandchildren would have no idea what is meant.

  410. Peasant says:
    @Jm8

    Rhotic and non Rhotic?

    • Replies: @Jm8
  411. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If this was true, then none of our primate relatives would exist. Human-level intelligence as we understand it is not absolute for survival, although our habitat would have been much, much smaller.

    But they’re all on the brink of extinction in the wild. Chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans are all endangered. Sure, that’s due to the activities of humans, but humans are a part of nature.

    Although speciation is not a well-defined term, the best definition are “animals that are capable of breeding vigorous offspring.” It is entirely possible for animals with different traits such as intelligence to still be able to breed vigorous offspring.

    So when and where has this happened in humans? Is a Chinese/African hybrid going to be dumber than a full Chinese? Or is a Chinese/African hybrid going to be dumber than a full African? Seriously, I want you to cite evidence for your assertions.

    Because just because something is good enough for a certain environment doesn’t mean that it is the exact equivalent or superior to what has been developed for a different environment. This is why invasive species are such a threat to native wildlife:

    As far as humans are concerned the earth is a single biome. They were already molded in a most inhospitable environment for humans — the hot jungles and arid savannas of Africa. They were bound to thrive everywhere else.

    it isn’t, for example, that native ants are poorly adapted for their environment, but invasive ants destroy them by being better adapted. Similar case with the Tasmanian wolf with competition from invasive dogs and innumerable other species.

    An organism doesn’t have to be maladapted to a habitat to be extincted. Buffalo and wolves were perfectly adapted to the American plains but they were still wiped out. Animals have wiped out other perfectly adapted animals. But for a meteorite that wiped out the dinosaurs our shrew-like human ancestors might have been wiped out. There’s nothing unusual in creatures going extinct. More than 99% of the creatures that walked this planet have suffered this fate.

    Its all randomness. Just because a goal has been achieved by a certain pathway, doesn’t mean that someone else didn’t achieve that goal via a different, better pathway. Evolution will only be able to do what is good enough.

    Well that’s exactly what I’m saying. Although evolution has no goal, it just happens. And it can’t foresee what lies around the bend.

    Hardly. Read it yourself(and obviously, I’m talking about our evolution from chimpanzee ancestors).

    You weren’t talking about that initially. You said there were tremendous enhancements to human cognition in non-Africans. An absurd suggestion, by the way. The article you linked speaks to human cognitive expansion prior to the OOA migration, which is what I’ve been arguing all along.

    A small change basically allowed us to grow an entire section of the brain which is not found in our cousins. And resulting “change”, almost a new organ in itself, is what gives us typically human capabilities.

    So where in this verbiage is the suggestion that some human groups (races) are more or less intelligent owning to differentiated genetic architecture of the brain (your original proposition)? If all you’re going to do is agree with me, it’s pointless to keep debating.

    Evolution doesn’t have a set timescale. If anything, bottlenecks make it go faster.

    It depends on what you’re evolving. Bottlenecks can also promote deleterious mutations. Your best bet is to have an abundant and varied supply of genetic material to work with. That’s why, as you said, hybrid vigor stimulates positive outcomes.

    Untrue. Again, if that was the case, then all evolution would be impossible as well. And there are trauma-induced geniuses.

    But trauma induced syndrome isn’t transmittable genetically, which is probably a good thing since there are infinitely more trauma induced imbeciles than there are savants.

    No magic is needed. Local genetic differences and capabilities are well established for a variety of other traits(such as high altitude adaptation), there’s no reason why intelligence is unique. Again, it needs not to be fetishized; its a product of the brain, and the brain is an organ like anything else.

    But how is this manifested in tangible, concrete terms? How do you account for the tremendous variability of intelligence from stupid to genius in all humans groupings? Surely, therefore, no group or race is missing the interplay of genes that code for differing levels of intelligence.

    Although I don’t really care, I actually would argue that if they went through a bottleneck effect, they would actually have more genetic tools by which they could develop improvements from. Its perfectly sensible.

    That makes no sense at all.

    They’ve succeeded within limits.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_family

    This is just one family, certainly not a community. Furthermore, subsequent generations of Bernoullis certainly weren’t exceptionally gifted, which goes to further buttress my point that breeding for intelligence is impossible.

    The correct answer is this is clearly that you do not know all Igbo because otherwise my trainee is imaginary. Yeah, no.

    Dude, no Igbo believes that Chinese people or any people are smarter or better than they are. I won’t tell you about the sensibilities of Han Chinese. So I’d appreciated it if you didn’t try to instruct me on what Igbos think and feel.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  412. Thomm says:
    @CrazedIndiot

    Your comment had no less than THREE giveaways that you are indeed flaming faggot. It also revealed that your IQ is just 70.

    It seems that there is an entire colony of Indians living in your head. That means they are shitting in your head, but even that increases your super-low IQ.

    You don’t even know an intelligent, successful white man (like me) when you are fortunate to interact with one. Sux to be you…

    Get off my lawn, faggot!

    Heh heh heh heh

  413. Jm8 says:
    @Peasant

    Rhoticity and non-Rhoticity is something else. It involves the pronunciation of the r after vowels (in words like “born” “far” “third”, etc). Dialects that drop/do not pronounce the “R” are non-Rhotic. Most dialects of English (including in England) were rhotic until sometime in the 1800s—non-rhoticism became common around London/Southeast England sometime in the late 1700s (and had occurred to a minor degree in that region before then), spreading very gradually to other parts of England over time (some dialects in England, especially in much of the Southwest/”Westcountry” and a few other areas, are still rhotic)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English#History

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English#England

    • Replies: @Peasant
  414. @Okechukwu

    But they’re all on the brink of extinction in the wild. Chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans are all endangered. Sure, that’s due to the activities of humans, but humans are a part of nature.

    Until very recently, chimpanzees weren’t – their enormous distribution is excellent evidence of how even though they lack what we consider as human intelligence, they are still extremely successful. Even now, compared to a number of other primates, they endure extremely well.

    So when and where has this happened in humans? Is a Chinese/African hybrid going to be dumber than a full Chinese? Or is a Chinese/African hybrid going to be dumber than a full African? Seriously, I want you to cite evidence for your assertions.

    I already answered your question earlier. You’re not arguing in good faith. Here’s your question: if two people, one predisposed to OCD and another without the genetic tendency have children, are their children dumber or smarter? You are trying to insist that cognitive effects from genes are impossible. That’s silly. And once you come to accept that negative ones are possible, then you should also come to realize that positive ones are possible.

    And then you might try to understand how dominance works, and how it might relate to genes. Spazzing makes no difference to reality.

    As far as humans are concerned the earth is a single biome. They were already molded in a most inhospitable environment for humans — the hot jungles and arid savannas of Africa. They were bound to thrive everywhere else.

    And yet still not true until recently. Is the biome for humans living in the highest of altitudes, the same as the biome for humans living in the coldest of areas, where Inuit adapted to a diet of almost purely meat. Are Inuit a new species now?

    Please.

    You weren’t talking about that initially. You said there were tremendous enhancements to human cognition in non-Africans. An absurd suggestion, by the way.

    Evolution does not stop below the neck(and around and outside the enteric nervous system).

    It depends on what you’re evolving. Bottlenecks can also promote deleterious mutations. Your best bet is to have an abundant and varied supply of genetic material to work with. That’s why, as you said, hybrid vigor stimulates positive outcomes.

    And bottlenecks promote specific alleles in a population. This is how you get high-altitude adaptation in humans – individuals without it die at higher rates, and the survivors are overwhelmingly those with beneficial alleles, who will then breed with each other.

    Its exactly what artificial selection does. Its also why bottlenecks increase evolutionary speed – they can promote a harmful allele if the survivors had them, but usually its only because the harmful allele also had a beneficial effect. Sickle-cell anemia is an example of this: a potentially negative allele that provides a beneficial effect.

    So where in this verbiage is the suggestion that some human groups (races) are more or less intelligent owning to differentiated genetic architecture of the brain (your original proposition)?

    Cognitive benefits can appear and spread in a local population, just like anything else beneficial without it magically appearing in all other populations. Blonde hair and blue eyes, for example, was beneficial for the population it was in so it became common. This doesn’t mean that all whites magically get blue eyes and blonde hair.

    But trauma induced syndrome isn’t transmittable genetically, which is probably a good thing since there are infinitely more trauma induced imbeciles than there are savants

    Think. The same “trauma”, usually in a lesser form, can happen genetically. And when it is positive, what happens to the gene?

    Yes, it is transmitted.

    If all you’re going to do is agree with me, it’s pointless to keep debating.

    Your lack of understanding and ability to extrapolate speaks more about yourself than me.

    Dude, no Igbo believes that Chinese people or any people are smarter or better than they are.

    Your omniscience of every single member of your ethnicity must be a genetic enhancement unique to you.

    You clearly have no interest in learning or speaking in good faith – this attitude, more than anything else, is the greatest detriment to actual understanding. Its a tragedy, but ultimately that’s your problem more than anyone else’s.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  415. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If he became God of Zimbabwe somehow, he said that he would implement computer systems to monitor everything, such was his distrust of his fellows due to corruption and do everything possible to crush divergent customs, cliques, tribes, etc which he identified as a fatal clannish weakness.

    Whatever the merits of his laundry list, in the past such unifications were done by force. A strong ruler would forcibly reorient various tribes and clans away from their individual distinctiveness and toward a centralized national polity. That is, after all, what happened in China, Europe, Japan and elsewhere. One of the major African kingdoms might have done it had they endured, most likely in a region of Africa. But nothing like that is practicable going forward.

    So no, he wouldn’t say that it was a genetic fault. Major cultural issues, but still major issues.

    But initially you said that he believed that Chinese were smarter than Igbos. Are you now retracting that statement?

    Frankly, decrying corruption, kleptocracy and inept governance in Nigeria is by no means an indictment of the intelligence or human worth of Nigerians. They wouldn’t be the first people to suffer under dysfunctional and avaricious regimes.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  416. Okechukwu says:
    @Peasant

    This is embarrasing and the other troll that keeps agreeing with you has a major chip on his shoulder.

    Aren’t you the clown that threw down the gauntlet to me here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/wapo-evil-putlerreich-welcomes-boer-racists/

    You self-righteously demanded that I debate you. I accepted your challenge and proceeded to debate you under the table, at which point you fled the scene and have now resurfaced here to call me a troll.

    Actually, someone that is promulgating comical pseudoscience and fake history in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary is the one with a chip on his shoulder.

    • Replies: @Pessant
  417. @Okechukwu

    But initially you said that he believed that Chinese were smarter than Igbos. Are you now retracting that statement?

    He would agree that Chinese were smarter than Africans, not including himself, of course. He strongly believed in learning from the Chinese in order to improve. He would, however, find it largely immaterial, a notion that I agree with – it ultimately really doesn’t matter if a population has 80-90 IQ or whatever, so as long as they were disciplined, pleasant and cooperative to each other. His main complaint was discipline and lack of any real notion of a public good; there obviously were some very smart people, but they were by and large using their intelligence to steal from each other.

    I thought his attitude was by far the healthiest I’ve known. Showing off or trying to prove anything matters far less than stopping the rampant, unbelievable mess. Bickering about intelligence is meaningless to solving real social problems.

    Whatever the merits of his laundry list, in the past such unifications were done by force.

    He admired the British boarding school system himself, and thought that such a system would remove children from daily contact with their families and normalize language, essential aspects for unity. It would also find those who were amenable to help build a better society, and eliminate those who weren’t.

    I don’t disagree, and I think that while harsh, it is a selective pressure that at least superficially rewards those with longer time orientation. It might not stop all corruption, but “settled bandits” that seek to extract rents through lower-level corruption is an improvement.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  418. @Daniel Chieh

    Worth adding, he obviously thought that I was “smarter” than him, though it is in part because I actually do have a strange gift/curse:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthymesia

    Its not as perfect as some’s, but my memory for visual data is incredible and this has both helped and hurt me; as the wiki noted, it can be a form of obsession and it can cause difficulties in distinguishing past and present, for one. It also causes me to endlessly ruminate about the past without much control.

    Its helpful for obvious reasons, hard to forget things including some useful things. Its a bit of a trick in how to get it to work right. Like the few mentioned there, I’ve made it useful so it doesn’t impair me and overall helps me.

    I do not, though, actually think that this has much to do with intelligence though it is an useful trait(indeed, AJ in the study was impaired by it). This does seem to run somewhat in my family, as well as some forms of mental illness(my brother was a self-made millionaire in his teens, riding the dot-com wave but had intense issues which would be classified these days as autism), which leads me to speculate that beneficial and harmful alleles came come together.

    • Replies: @Factorize
  419. Jm8 says:
    @Edward

    If it is lower than the general white average genotypically (which I am not certain/convinced of, but of course can’t rule out), nonetheless 85 as a genotypic/genetic IQ (in SS Africa) seems a bit low (in the case of most groups or overall at least). If so, it seems that at least as high as 90-the low (or mid) 90s (and/or perhaps higher for some ethnic and regional groups) is a possibility and does seem plausible and more likely.

    There is reason to believe that in much of subsaharan Africa, and certain third world regions elsewhere, IQ is depressed more than 10 points (and even Lynn suggested about 15—I might suspect more in some cases).

    There is, for instance, some (more recent) evidence of relatively high/decent performance from a few of the Caribbean nations whose environmental conditions are unusual favorable for the region (relatively good socio-economic indicators: more education, GDP; low malnutrition/disease burden, etc). Blacks in Bermuda also often score near the white average, on the largest and most recent study of adults comparing black and white Bermudians—normed against the UK Greenwich IQ mean), though there is some ambiguity in the overall Bermudian body of data.

    http://humanvarieties.org/2013/05/03/hvgiq-bermuda/

    In Barbados (which is 90% black) two recent studies studies: find IQ of 94 (in a recent sample of adults in 2014) and about 90 (in a sample of adolescents in 1987). Both studies also contained malnourished samples (who had been malnourished as infants) which scored much lower than the healthy control groups (or average Barbadians who had not suffered from that condition, who scored, as mentioned 94 and 90)

    Also, interestingly, the sample with the higher score (94) was more recent (Weber 2014) than the other one (Galler 1987), so perhaps this is due to/part of the Flynn effect (at least partly). Though, the higher scoring sample is older than the other one (adult vs adolescent), and the groups’ ages/dates are far enough apart given the respective dates, that it may perhaps be a bit more something like improvement within a cohort due to educational or other environmental factors, than an across cohort effect—though the report mentions that severe infant malnutrition is now much less common than when the study was done, so a recent rising IQ effect may be likely at least partly due to that, and a recent low-mid 90s score should, as the studies show, be expected for the country.
    “Thus, whereas moderate-severe cases of infant malnutrition were of significant concern when this study was undertaken in the 1970’s, infant malnutrition is now virtually eliminated from the island due to its improved economy and the impact of island-wide nutrition-related education”
    (those afflicted with kwashiorkor or marasmus—excluded from the healthy controls in the second mentioned sample/study— scored iqs much lower than the others at 74 and 72 and the malnourished scored 78 in the first study, showing the significant iq depressive effects of those conditions and malnourishment, suggesting that the depressive effects of likely even worse conditions—like malaria, hookworm, etc which also severely lower IQ in those afflicted as children—common in poorer countries in Africa and elsewhere, could be even worse/more severe, and combine in this places, as they often do, with conditions like kwashiorkor, marasmus, other forms of malnutrition to even worse effect

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4131534/

    the average IQ was 99 (table 1) , adjusted 3 points down for the Flynn effect and then 2 points down for UK norms resulting in an IQ of 94.

    “In 2006, the BNS undertook to assess outcomes in its participants in mid-adulthood, including neuropsychological, psychiatric, and social functioning, as well as physical health. There was an estimated 9-fold increase in the prevalence of IQ in the range of intellectual disability (≤70) in the previously malnourished group, and basic academic skills were significantly depressed, even after adjusting for the effects of standard of living throughout childhood and adolescence (Waber, et al., 2013).”

    2nd study:
    “Long-term effects of early kwashiorkor compared with marasmus. II. Intellectual performance.”
    “The effect of early malnutrition and related conditions at the time of episode still emerged as significant even when the current environmental factors were controlled for.”

    In a Mexican study (below), healthy vs. afflicted differences of a similar magnitude (to the affected vs. non-affected Barbadian difference)—12 points:

    https://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v5/n11/pdf/pr1971371a.pdf?origin=ppub

    “Measured intelligence at school age was compared in 37 previously severely mal- nourished children and their siblings. The malnourished children all had been hos- pitalized for kwashiorkor…”
    “The siblings had never experienced a bout of severe malnutrition requiring hospitalization. The sibling controls were all within 3 yearsof age of the index cases. Full scale WISC IQof the index cases was 68.5 and of the con- trols 81.5. Verbal and performance differences were of similar magnitude and in the same direction.”

    Recent score for Barbados under IQ(DB) columns under “favorites”

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3c4TxciNeJZWUx5bzBWZ1BuMUk/view

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-worlds-iq-86/

    Disease burden, as mentioned, is generally very severe in Subsaharan Africa (and to a somewhat lesser extent much of South Asia and Latin America and parts of the Caribbean) and this can severely affect IQ
    (along with nutritional deficiencies).

    Interestingly disease burden (and other environmental depressors associated with it including malnutrition, and it likely figures in significantly along with malnutrition) seems to correlate decently well with country iq across several racial groups, albeit somewhat loosely (In the Indian subcontinent, the Caribbean, and to some degree in Latin America), especially if one takes Malloy and Fuerst’s re-analyses (below) into account—unfortunately the (disease burden score to IQ) page’s below’s IQ figures for Africa and the Caribbean seem to be based largely on Lynn and thus may be inaccurately low/underestimated.

    (figure label in the link below labeled “Global Infectious Disease Deaths by Region 2004” from the work of Christopher Eppig, near top,)

    http://affordablehousinginstitute.org/blogs/us/2010/08/sickness-makes-you-stupid.html

    There evidence as well of scores on the low 90s for the Bahamas (which is 90% black, see comments in below link—the small non-black fraction, which includes mulattos and East Indians, would not have much effect on averages, even if it scored somewhat higher than the black majority which is not certain) also scores relatively well at 93, (though the Bahamian data comes from late adolescents, averaging ages 16-18)

    http://humanvarieties.org/2013/03/12/hvgiq-the-bahamas/

    The Bahamas have a significant disease burden (3.47) esp. compared to the first world—but low malaria compared to many of its neighbors (as does Barbados at 3.27 and Bermuda)— and is wealthy for the Caribbean, but a higher measured iq score (93—near much of the Middle East and parts of South East Asia and the Mediterranean and Balkans) than India (81-82) whose disease burden is only a little higher at 3.79 (but scores similarly in IQ to some other South/South East Asian countries with similar disease burden scores (I speculate that this may partly relate to a relatively lower rate of malaria in particular in the Bahamas/Barbados than elsewhere in the third world, Africa, India etc. (All/virtually all Africa’s disease burden scores are higher than S. Asia’s; being mostly about 4.30-40 and up). though possibly conditions may improve in some regions in the future—they have likely somewhat fluctuated over history (and apparently have improved somewhat, for instance in parts of Mexico, and the Bahamas and Barbados). Of course I do not think this the only factor, and consider, others (e.g. possible cultural, genetic, epigenetic and other contributors) possible as well.

    Jamaica’s disease score 3.22 and iq (81 according to Malloy’s more accurate analysis of Lynn’s data) correlation, however seem to (albeit roughly) parallel those of India and Pakistan’s also low 80’s (the same is seem in the cases a few other Caribbean and Latin American countries’).
    So the correlation (iq depressing disease to iq score) also looks to be a reasonably good one (as Eppig contends) so far as far as I can tell.

    Lynn does seem to have misrepresented/underestimated the data in the case of some of the Caribbean (and Africa). In the Jamaican data (as Malloy finds), higher scores were omitted for no apparent reason.

    http://humanvarieties.org/2013/03/01/hvgiq-jamaica/

    Notably Bahamians and Barbadians are somewhat more African genetically than African Americans (and—currently—score better). Bermudian blacks are also of majority African ancestry, but not more so than US blacks. And all three, like American blacks, are descended from slaves, rather than immigrants who could be possibly selected (slaves and their ancestors likely would be negatively selected if anything, perhaps more so in some parts of the Americas than others, depending on the local forms of chattel slavery practiced and the conceivable dysgenic effects thereof—that of the US might have been the among worst in that regard).

    • Replies: @Edward
    , @Jm8
  420. @Jm8

    There are many structures in subsaharan Africa more impressive than the tomb of Askia;

    And all of them were probably built by forced labor. We know this to be the case with the current Mosque of Djenne:

    In 1906, the French administration in the town arranged for the original mosque to be rebuilt and at the same time for a school to be constructed on the site of Seku Amadu’s mosque. The rebuilding was completed in 1907 using forced labour

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_Djenné

    The original Mosque of Djenne was probably built by forced labor, but we will never know. No records have survived. Perhaps none had been made at the time.

    When the ruling class has access to a large quantity of servile labor, it goes about building monuments, either to the glory of God or simply to their own vanity. These monuments are interesting, but they tell us nothing about the intellectual capacity or character of the average person. This point applies not only to sub-Saharan Africa, but also to the rest of the world. We look at the pyramids and assume that the Egyptians were formidable people in Pharaonic times. More likely than not, the Egyptian people are, on average, no better and no worse than their ancestors. They are simply no longer coerced by tradition or by the State to give up so much of their time to pyramid building.

    You might get a better idea of the capacity of a people by examining little details, rather than the grandeur of the monument. In the case of the Mosque of Djenne, the details are not impressive:

    …the French explorer René Caillié visited Djenné in 1828 and wrote “In Jenné is a mosque built of earth, surmounted by two massive but not high towers; it is rudely constructed, though very large.

    Similarly, the ruins of Zimbabwe are large but architecturally simple. I don’t want to be too negative on this point. There are examples of ingenuity, particularly with the Igbo, but the overall picture is not impressive.

    • Replies: @Jm8
    , @Peasant
    , @Jm8
    , @Talha
  421. It’s possible that tens of thousands of Nigerians with an IQ above 100 may be immigrating to the West and are off-setting test results, however this would not necessarily invalidate any of the data put forward by the researchers attacked in this article. Nigeria has a population of 190 million, with the vast majority possessing an IQ below 100. Those with a higher IQ are the outliers, and no geneticist would claim such cases don’t exist. As the author says, we should be looking into exactly what population of blacks these students come from, and testing their parents to determine if their higher than average IQ was inherited.

    If it is determined that these students and their parents possess an above-average IQ for their racial group, then they should probably be repatriated to better serve the needs of their countrymen. It is through their guidance and leadership that Africa will prosper. Even if whites were to possess the lowest average IQ of any group, we still deserve to maintain our homelands without the unwanted interference of other groups. If these intelligent Africans don’t want to put in the effort to better their homelands, I see no reason to think they will be of any practical use to us.

  422. Jm8 says:
    @Peter Frost

    René Caillié’s description of the Djenne mosque as “rudely constructed” probably does not reflect its original appearance (as Jean-Louis Bourgois also explains in his essay “The History of the Great Mosques of Djenne”). By the time Caillie visited the mosque, it had been subjected to ten years of legally degreed neglect by the fanatical Muslim invader Seku Amadu who had taken over Djenne (and had ruled the Mosque and the form Islam practiced there heretical and built a simpler mosque elsewhere in the area to replace it) and had thereby suffered ten years of erosion and damage from the yearly rains and other causes to its adobe surface creating the appearance of “rudeness”and roughness (normally its outer layer would have been periodically re-plastered with mud as it had been for centuries since its construction, and as the current mosque is today) and was in the early stages of ruin.

    Rene Caillie also mentions other effects of the forced neglect “abandonment” and its resulting deterioration in his description (such as large numbers of birds nesting in it—”abandoned to…swallows”—and the “disagreeable smell” that came from the lack of maintenance), showing that its state at the time his visit was not reflective of the mosque originally.

    The full quote is:

    “In Jenné is a mosque built of earth, surmounted by two massive but not high towers; it is rudely constructed, though very large. It is abandoned to thousands of swallows, which build their nests in it. This occasions a very disagreeable smell, to avoid which, the custom of saying prayers in a small outer court has become common.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_Djenné#The_first_mosque

    Jean-Louis Bourgois from “The History of the Great Mosques of Djenne”:

    “In 1828 the French traveler Rene Caillie was the only traveler to see the monument before it fell into ruin. His description is not just disappointingly terse, but probably misleading as well.
    …he called the “very large” structure “rudely built”But adobe buildings in the Sahel require periodic—often annual replastering with mud, or the region’s brief but sometimes violent rainy season will make them start to melt.When Caillie saw the Great Mosque it is likely,for political reasons…that the monument had not been replastered since perhaps 1818. Probably as many as ten rainy seasons had washed away all the plaster and worn the mud brick. This would explain the “two massive towers” being “low”…:a decade’s neglect could have eaten away the upper sections of tall towers, which would have been particularly vulnerable to weathering.”

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/3336477?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    • Replies: @Jm8
  423. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit: “…had been subjected to ten years of legally decreed neglect…”

    (not “degreed neglect”, as mistakenly written originally)

  424. Truth says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If this was true, then none of our primate relatives would exist.

    How do you know, conclusively, that they did?

  425. Pessant says:
    @Okechukwu

    I hadnt realised you replied. I thought the comments section was dead. It was a pretty long one after all. Ive been in this one for a little while now. You might have noticed. Although I Inotice you are sensitive enough to realise I am talking about you without me naming you.

    I see that you again chose not to answer my point about race not being reductible to skin colour. I have pointed this out to you twice (in the other thread as well as here) and tou have not answered. Makes you look pretty stupid that you do not know the difference. As Daniel chieh says you are clearly not arguing in good faith.

    Waste of my time

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  426. Peasant says:
    @Peter Frost

    ‘These monuments are interesting, but they tell us nothing about the intellectual capacity or character of the average person’

    Oh cone now. Is this the mosque built in the 19th century by Arabs and Arab mulattoes that needs to be repaired with fresh manure every year lest it fall down?

    We might not know for sure but I think we can guess.

    • Replies: @Jm8
  427. Factorize says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Daniel, the memory ability that you describe could help me answer a question. Might you be interested in helping me solve this riddle?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  428. Jm8 says:
    @Peasant

    It was not built by Arabs or by Arabs mulattos. The original was built in the 13th century by the native Soninke-speaking peoples (local Soninke-speaking subgroups like the Mark and Bozo), and rebuilt along the lines of the original design by the hereditary Mason guild of the town (who are, as historically, of the Bozo ethnicity). It is not as much that it wilk fall down, as that the outer layer of plaster, which over lays the mud brick, will severely erode. Whether bildings made of adobe must be plastered regularly depends on the climate, in some drier areas such as the American Southwest they do not, or do less often, either because of the climate it because they are sheltered by cliffs. Some of the adobe buildings of the Dogon region in Mali West Africa, some if which are sheltered by cliffs have survived for centuries without much maintenance, as have those of the centuries older Tellem and Toloy cultures of the same region of Mali. Structures that have to be maintained regularly also occur elsewhere and include some of the the early medieval wooden Shinto temples of Japan which have been maintained and partly reconstructed regularly by the people for many centuries.

    • Replies: @Jm8
  429. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit: “It, and the much older city, were built by local Soninke and Soninke-related subgroups, like the Marka and Bozo indigenous to the area (members of the larger Mande ethnolinguistic group that includes Soninke, Mandinka, and Bambara).

  430. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Until very recently, chimpanzees weren’t – their enormous distribution is excellent evidence of how even though they lack what we consider as human intelligence, they are still extremely successful. Even now, compared to a number of other primates, they endure extremely well.

    But chimpanzees have compensatory skills and attributes. They can live a nearly arboreal lifestyle and can swing from branch to branch, keeping them safe from predators. They have prehensility with all four limbs. They have padded palms and fingers. They are pound for pound much stronger than humans. They run faster and are vastly more athletic than humans. They can even kill small prey with their bare hands.

    A human with a chimp brain and lacking the above mentioned attributes would be very susceptible to extinction. Hence the human brain. Humans can’t kill anything without a weapon, not even small mammals. They can’t outrun predators or jump into trees. Therefore they needed sufficient brain power to construct a crude but effective spear, giving them a pointy, deadly artificial appendage. That coupled with stone cutting tools and the control of fire ensured humanity’s survival.

    if two people, one predisposed to OCD and another without the genetic tendency have children, are their children dumber or smarter?

    Who knows? OCD is potentially heritable, as is intelligence. Whether the children will be dumber or smarter is irrelevant to the heritability of OCD.

    You are trying to insist that cognitive effects from genes are impossible. That’s silly. And once you come to accept that negative ones are possible, then you should also come to realize that positive ones are possible.

    No. I said that cognitive effects from traumatic brain injury aren’t heritable.

    And yet still not true until recently. Is the biome for humans living in the highest of altitudes, the same as the biome for humans living in the coldest of areas, where Inuit adapted to a diet of almost purely meat. Are Inuit a new species now?

    The earth is a single biome in the sense that it ins’t another planet. It’s one super biome with smaller constituent biomes that form the whole. Few areas of the earthly landmass are inhabitable. The point is that having evolved in the most inhospitable biome for humans on the planet, people were well conditioned for the task of colonizing the rest of the planet. Having survived Africa, everything else was relatively easy.

    And bottlenecks promote specific alleles in a population. This is how you get high-altitude adaptation in humans – individuals without it die at higher rates, and the survivors are overwhelmingly those with beneficial alleles, who will then breed with each other.

    First of all, I never asserted that all humans are the same. High altitude adaptation is a thing and scientists can reconstruct the genetic mechanisms that engender it. However, a bottleneck that promotes a particular physiological phenotype isn’t necessarily at the same time promoting intelligence. It could very well be the case that the people dying off in the thin air are the smart ones. Hence the difficulty in breeding for intelligence and why your suggestion that bottlenecking would aid black Americans in becoming smarter is absurd.

    Its exactly what artificial selection does. Its also why bottlenecks increase evolutionary speed – they can promote a harmful allele if the survivors had them, but usually its only because the harmful allele also had a beneficial effect. Sickle-cell anemia is an example of this: a potentially negative allele that provides a beneficial effect.

    Bottlenecking can also kill off a population, and has. Those harmful alleles have a strong a will to survive as the beneficial ones. And since intelligence has no substance or agency, it can’t be boosted in that context. I always get a chuckle when people suggest that the bubonic plague killed off all the dumb people in Europe, as if intelligence can marshal a force of white blood cells to destroy bacteria and viruses.

    Cognitive benefits can appear and spread in a local population, just like anything else beneficial without it magically appearing in all other populations.

    Cognitive benefits have a universal application and are therefore universal to humans. Without cognitive benefits humans wouldn’t be here in the first place. Can you prove otherwise? Name one population on earth without cognitive benefits.

    Blonde hair and blue eyes, for example, was beneficial for the population it was in so it became common.

    Those are minor, inconsequential and superficial traits. I have black hair and brown eyes. Does that give me an advantage?

    Think. The same “trauma”, usually in a lesser form, can happen genetically. And when it is positive, what happens to the gene?

    No it can’t, and that’s a good thing. It’s a good thing that soldiers coming back from war with half their heads blown off, making them vegetative, don’t father offspring with the same features. Do you have an example of the effects of brain injury being transmitted genetically? Let’s have it.

    Your omniscience of every single member of your ethnicity must be a genetic enhancement unique to you.

    No, I don’t know the thoughts and feelings of every single Igbo individual. I do know what Igbos think and feel generally. And the notion that other people are smarter than them has no resonance in the global Igbo diaspora. Other people may be more advanced or more developed, but never smarter. But it’s odd that based on your sample size of one, you would draw an inference as to how Igbo people regard their own intelligence.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  431. Okechukwu says:
    @Pessant

    Although I Inotice you are sensitive enough to realise I am talking about you without me naming you.

    It was a rather simple deduction to make, given that I was the only poster that had complimented him.

    I see that you again chose not to answer my point about race not being reductible to skin colour.

    Race is more than skin color. Even ethnicities of the same color are more than skin color. Even your immediate family members are more than skin color.

    So?

  432. @Okechukwu

    Everything has been answered. Almost nothing is worth responding to, except to reemphasize this.

    No it can’t, and that’s a good thing. It’s a good thing that soldiers coming back from war with half their heads blown off, making them vegetative, don’t father offspring with the same features. Do you have an example of the effects of brain injury being transmitted genetically? Let’s have it.

    Yes: OCD. Autism. Schizophrenia. All examples of genetics causing “trauma” for the brain, through biological effects that are connected genetically. I could probably name more.

    And I had so much hope for your presumed creativity and verbal intelligence.

    Almost everything else is self-evident, from the fact that humans would survive with a smaller range(and likely would have other adaptations without intelligence) to the fact that bottlenecking will obviously not be random. Or that once you realize that cognitive effects can be inherited and rise in a population, then differences can occur without speciation. Very minor differences can indeed be advantages(why don’t you have hair all over you, ever wonder about that?). Intelligence, at least when subdivided, can indeed be selected for. A desperate effort to overextend is pointless: even a population, that, for example, couldn’t drive would still be able to survive. Driving is not an essential survival characteristic. Etc, etc.

    You may, as you surely will, claim victory and blather on – despite just fleeing from being proven incorrect multiple times, from the weird obsession with static cognition to special cognitive genes being unable to be spliced into mice. I don’t really care. It hurts no one but yourself; that you’re incorrect is evident at this point to anyone else who is reading. But if you really are a supposedly cogent human being, at least realize that you can be totally wrong sometimes.

    Sadly, I know your kind(and by that, I do not mean blacks, but specifically your personality). When in a decade or two when we do find even more definite genetics for intelligence(which already exists), you will still be confident that you were somehow always correct and furthermore, that you should benefit from it.

    Yours is a doomed position. Have fun with it. Creationists seem to last for a long time too.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  433. Factorize says:

    It is a word association task that would take about 30 minutes.
    It includes a before and after connotation evaluation and a memory round.

    Others on the thread who might be interested could also join in.
    It would actually have relevance for the topic of discussion on this thread.

    If we get push back on this forum we can just move elsewhere.

    We could relax and condense the terms of the consent form.
    Your name will not used and you can withdraw participation at any time.

    You will likely find the task enjoyable and probably learn something that you might find
    useful by participating.

    It would be best to have speech synthesis software, and a program such as C+, though
    it can all be done using index cards with another person presenting them to you.

    I have a pre-specified hypothesis about how your memory trait would affect the outcome which
    I could share with you afterwards in the debriefing stage.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  434. @Factorize

    You can email me at my yandex account here: [email protected]

  435. Jm8 says:
    @Peter Frost

    “There are examples of ingenuity, particularly with the Igbo, but the overall picture is not impressive.”

    I would not especially say it is accurate to characterize the Igbo as particularly or markedly superior among the examples I gave (nor is ingenuity limited to them, though they have certainly have had their accomplishments). For instance: the medieval arts of the Yoruba (such as the very realistic and detailed terracottas and bronzes of the kingdom Ife and the terracottas and ivories of the kingdom of Owo) and the art of the Edo/Bini (of the Benin kingdom) were in fact impressive, and easily as impressive as those of Igbo Ukwu (which were of high quality as well). The medieval Mande peoples of the Malian Middle Niger (the same people who later built the Djenne mosque) also produced art in terra-cotta (and sometimes brass and wood),—as the earlier Nok of Nigeria also had—, much of it detailed and skillfully made, though often of a more abstract or schematized/stylized type.

    In terms of architecture, though some of that of the Igbo (especially around the northern areas of Igboland like Nri and Awka) often had a kind of beauty—some of the titled mens’ and clan houses—(with intricately-carved adjoining wood panels, often traditionally made, especially to comprise the doors and parts of the house and compound walls of titled men, nobles and priests), it was typically more modest and by no means superior in quality to that of the Nigerian Bini (of Benin kingdom), the Yoruba—let alone the earthworks of massive extent found among both the Bini and the Ijebu Yoruba of Sungbo’s Eredo—, or to the old town and palace architecture of the Ashanti of Ghana (examples of which I linked previously, and much, but not all, of which was destroyed in the Ashanti wars with the British), or to that of the Cameroonian grassland peoples such as the Bamileke, Bamoum, Bafut and others with their traditional carved and high-columned wooden palaces (some of which I also linked previously). Also, the Igbo normally did not build cities, large towns, city-states or kingdoms (with a few partial exceptions like Nri-Awka and Onitsha), as the Yoruba, Bini, Akan, Malians along the Niger, and certain others did and had since at least the middle ages (but rather, tended to live for most of their history in smaller-scale and more de-centralised “town-states” or small villages).

    The Nsibidi script was invented, not by the Igbo in particular (It was not used by all Igbo, but was used or adopted by some Igbo subgroups mainly in the southeast of Igboland), but rather by a cluster of other peoples from the further in the S.E. corner of Nigeria likely ancestral to the primary tribes known to have traditionally used it, such as the Ejagham, Ekoi, Efik, Qua, Ogoni, Ibibio, (and southeastern Igbo).

    “The original Mosque of Djenne was probably built by forced labor”

    Some slaves could have been involved (the society did have slaves, and probably had for a very long time, as many ancient societies did), but it is also most likely that the original mosque, like many of the other buildings of the city, was built and designed mainly by the city’s traditional guild of hereditary masons, who built and maintained the traditional buildings of Djenne and had for as long as is known, who belong to the Bozo tribe, one of the most native and oldest-established ethnic groups in the area, and many of whose traditions and skills predate Islam (their predecessors are also believed to have been present at the older nearby pre-Islamic parent city of Jenne-Jeno, where the houses and the large city wall were constructed of their characteristic rounded mud brick).

    “When the ruling class has access to a large quantity of servile labor…These monuments are interesting, but they tell us nothing about the intellectual capacity or character of the average person.”

    Even a force of bonded laborers or slaves, in the building of a large-scale or complex structure, must include many skilled workers/laborers of some intelligence (whether or not they were themselves enslaved) to execute the grand plan of the elite who have commissioned or ordered it. And also, it does seem/I would suspect that even the ability of a society to produce an elite capable conceiving and coordinating large-scale projects (like a moat enclosing one’s territory that is roughly the size of Manhattan), does at least suggest something about the intelligence of the people and society as a whole in which they existed.

    The evidence indicates, and has for a while, that the pyramids of Egypts were built mainly by free citizen laborers (commissioned and paid by the authorities, many of them skilled). They, generally, do not seemed have been coerced, at least not in a direct sense (but it is hard to know for sure). To participate in the sacred project of king (particularly a divine king) seems to have carried some prestige and respect (as likely in other cultures).

  436. But adobe buildings in the Sahel require periodic—

    Before the French arrived, buildings in the Sahel were not made of adobe brick. They were made using a simpler technology: balls of wet earth placed on top of each other. This was how the original mosque was built, and this is why it required continual maintenance. The French had the mosque rebuilt with adobe brick so that it would last longer. This is explained on the French page of the wiki entry:

    Il faut faire la différence entre deux systèmes de Banco crue: le système en djenné-ferey et le système en toubabou-ferey.
    - La construction en djenné-ferey est le moyen de construction traditionnel ; il consiste en une superposition de boules de terre crue encore mouillée, l’élément de base joue le rôle de brique et de liant. La mosquée est construite selon cette méthode.
    - Le toubabou-ferey consiste en la construction de briques en terre crue séchée (adobe) qui seront liées entre elles par de la terre crue mouillée. le toubabou-ferey a été introduit au Mali par les occidentaux à la suite du classement de Djenné au patrimoine mondial. Il sert à reconstruire Djenné plus rapidement selon des plans de la ville datant de 1830.

    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_mosqu%C3%A9e_de_Djenn%C3%A9

    Keep in mind that slaves constituted up to half of the Soninke population. There was thus little incentive to create labor-saving technologies for building construction and maintenance.

    though some of that of the Igbo … often had a kind of beauty—some of the titled mens’ and clan houses—(with intricately-carved adjoining wood panels, often traditionally made, especially to comprise the doors and parts of the house and compound walls of titled men, nobles and priests), it was typically more modest and by no means superior in quality to that of the Nigerian Bini (of Benin kingdom), the Yoruba—let alone the earthworks of massive extent found among both the Bini and the Ijebu Yoruba

    You’re missing my point. Big monuments simply require the ability to mobilize large numbers of people. They tell us nothing about the intelligence of the average man or woman. The Igbo never had a true state, as we understand the term. Their society was democratic with dispersed centers of authority. That’s why their buildings were more “modest.”

    The evidence indicates, and has for a while, that the pyramids of Egypts were built mainly by free citizen laborers (commissioned and paid by the authorities

    Sigh. … The consensus is that they were made by corvee labor. Egypt was not a society of free citizens. It was a highly authoritarian and ideological society where obligations to the State, to the gods, and to dead ancestors were paramount.

    From the Egyptian Old Kingdom (ca 2613 BC) onward, (the 4th Dynasty), corvée labour helped in ‘government’ projects; during the times of the Nile River floods, labour was used for construction projects such as pyramids, temples, quarries, canals, roads, and other works.

    The 1350 BC Amarna letters correspondence, (mostly addressed to the Ancient Egyptian pharaoh), has one short letter, with the topic of corvée labour. Of the 382–Amarna letters, it is an example of an undamaged letter, from Biridiya of Megiddo, entitled: “Furnishing corvée workers”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corv%C3%A9e#Egypt

  437. Edward says:
    @Okechukwu

    But peer reviews haven’t exactly been kind to the kind of racialist pseudoscience you are spouting.

    Actually, surveys suggest that the majority of intelligence researchers agree that intelligence differences between groups are partly explained by genetic differences. Even James Flynn, who doesn’t agree with this consensus, has a great deal of respect for people such as Arthur Jensen, Charles Murray and Linda Gottfredson.

    If you’re referring to academics and scientists and “opinion-makers” who don’t have an expertise in the field, then of course Jensen, Murray and Gottfredson are dismissed as scientific racists. But this is a politically-motivated criticism, and by dismissing peer-reviewed evidence as “racialist pseudoscience”, you’ve exposed yourself to be at least partially motivated by politics. I myself am very socially liberal yet I accept the evidence in spite of my political beliefs.

    Now, it’s amazing that after giving you links to Pew data and to Census data, you give me a politically-motivated opinion piece which in some cases doesn’t even link to primary data, but to other articles.

    I demonstrated quite clearly in my previous post that sub-Saharan African immigrants are below average on almost every economic metric and do worse than South/East Asian immigrants and European/Canadian immigrants educationally. Nigerian-Americans — who you claimed have an IQ in the 110-115 range — do worse than Indian-Americans on every metric (and they have an average IQ of 112). I wouldn’t put their average IQ above 105, and some of the income and occupational data (they have median household incomes identical to or just below Whites and significantly worse occupational outcomes compared to Whites) suggest that it is likely around 100 or below.

    The main thing that Nigerian-Americans (and sub-Saharan African immigrants as a whole) have going for them is undergraduate degree attainment, but this is influenced by affirmative action. Asian-Americans are discriminated against in the university admissions process, by contrast. Many degrees also don’t require particularly high IQs.

    And even if your allegation about affirmative action for Asians and Blacks concerning employment were true, it would still be the case that despite both Asians and Black African immigrants receiving such affirmative action, Asians do substantially better economically.

    Your last comment, even if it were true, simply begs the question of why East Asians and Asian Indians are preferred for promotion to high-level positions, and not Black African immigrants. I think we both know the answer to that. See Schmitt and Hunter’s research on the relationship between the g factor and job performance.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Okechukwu
  438. Edward says:
    @Jm8

    Thank you for your intelligent reply, I will have a look at the data you have presented and respond if I have time.

    My immediate, speculative thoughts are that Caribbean populations are still populations with significant white admixture and as you note there are some White and Asian Indian populations within some of these countries too. I agree that your data would pose some problems for people who believe that the genotypic IQ of sub-Saharan Africa is 70, but not as much for those like myself who believe it is around 85.

    I agree that infectious disease and malnutrition are important to get rid of from an IQ perspective, which is why I’m strongly supportive of efforts to increase vaccination rates, and to fortify food with micronutrients, in developing countries.

    • Replies: @Jm8
  439. This is what some think …

    Race War Official Trailer

  440. Truth says:
    @Edward

    Nigerian-Americans — who you claimed have an IQ in the 110-115 range — do worse than Indian-Americans on every metric (and they have an average IQ of 112).

    Again, so do European-American Immigrants from ALL countries. So what?

    • Replies: @Edward
  441. Talha says:
    @Peter Frost

    The original Mosque of Djenne was probably built by forced labor

    The original Hagia Sophia was famously built by 10,000 slaves in a relatively short time. The Great Wall of China used tons of forced labor, even children. In the pre-modern world it was pretty amazing what you could build if you could throw and endless supply of slaves at something.

    If I recall, the Great Mosque was largely based on a design by an Andalusian architect.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jm8
  442. Jm8 says:
    @Talha

    The mosque of Timbuktu was based (or partly based) on the design of an Andalusian architect brought back by Mansa Musa. The original mosque of Djenne had nothing to do with Mansa Musa and predates him (it was rather commissioned by the local ruler of Djenne Kunburu when he converted to Islam, and replaced and may have been partly based on, an earlier Pagan palace or shrine that had stood on the site. The sudan-sahelian style of building was heavily influenced by the pre-Islamic/pagan indigenous building practices of the Malian Mande-speaking and other nearby peoples—including some (practices) found in the Dogon country and at pre-Islamic Djenne-Jeno.

    • Replies: @Jm8
    , @Jm8
  443. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit:” “The style of the Islamic buildings of the western Sudano-sahelian (it is known) style of building was heavily influenced by/based in part on the pre-Islamic/pagan indigenous building practices of the region (along with other Islamic influences)”

    (the mosque was ordered by the local ruler of the time, Kunburu (and likely built by the local masons, based on the traditional building style)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_Djenné#History

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Jm8
  444. Jm8 says:
    @Edward

    There is some white admixture in Bahamians and Barbadians but it is low and averages about 17-10% (they average about 83-90% African), not enough to make a significant difference (somewhat lower in non-black admixture than African Americans, who have about about 15-25% making them about 75-85% African on Average). Black Bermudians are somewhat more mixed, but still predominantly African at at least about 72% on average genetically—and the sample also includes some of the mixed or “colored” section of the population, so it is possible that the Bermudians classified as black (who make up about 53% of the overall population) may average a bit more African than that—and even if they were 50% white, they would not (according to conventional hereditarian expectations) be expected to score at or near whites.

    Black and/or “colored” Bermudians (the 4th population down at link below)

    https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/reference-populations-next-gen/

    Both Barbados and the Bahamas are about 90% black, with the remaining percentage comprising a mixture of, not only whites, but also East Indians and mulattos.

    The IQ of the Bahamas is 93, this indicates a black Bahamian IQ of at least ca. 90-91, if one assumes a non-black Bahamian IQ (the non-black 10% of the population being mostly a mix of whites, mixed-race black/white mulattos and South Asians/East Indians) of 100 (and the non-black fraction, all combined, likely has an IQ less than that, so the black Bahamian IQ may be in fact be higher: ca. 91-92)

    Barbadians average predominantly black genetically (about 80-89% African, about the same as many other British Caribbeans, like Jamaicans and Bahamians).

    “Benn-Torres et al. [2008] estimated Barbadians have ~90% African ancestry based on only 28 AIMs. Here we used 416 AIMs, plus a large number of randomly…”
    “The Barbadians had on average a greater proportion of African ancestry compared to the African Americans (Fig. 1), but they had a slightly lower African admixture (77.4%, median = 79%) than reported by Benn-Torres et al. [2008].”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3837693/

    And a more recent study does find 87% African:
    ‘Estimated African ancestry ranges from virtually 0 (Maya) to 0.87 (Barbados) in all the analysed populations.”

    https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms7596

    Bahamians average about 80-85% African genetically, about the same range as Barbadians and Jamaicans.

    A study finds about 85% African ancestry for Bahamians in new Providence, the most populous island (page 21) and similar amounts for other Bahamas islands. This is not far from the 83-90% African fractions usually found for Barbados and Jamaica.

    From ““The Peopling of the Bahamas: A Phylogeographical Perspective”
    T M. Simms 2012″:

    “The New Providence and both US African American populations share similar admixture proportions (16.3%, 15.9% and 14.6%, respectively) from Europeans “(page 22)

    “The G-test results (Supplementary Table 7) reveal statistically insignificant genetic differences between the Bahamian collections and several of the continental African populations (i.e., Angola, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea-Bissau and the Bantu group from Kenya) either before or after application of the Bonferroni correction. In addition, Abaco, Eleuthera, Exuma, Grand Bahama and New Providence were not found to differ significantly from the other New World groups of African descent (Haiti, Jamaica and the two US African American collections),”(page111)

    “Results of the admixture analyses (Table 5) indicate that the largest genetic contributor to the Bahamian gene pool is continental Africa, with Long Island, Abaco, Eleuthera, Grand Bahama and Exuma sharing approximately 65.4%, 75.0%, 80.3%, 86.7% and 90.4% of their autosomal component with the African collections,” (page 113)
    The islands with the two lower average African ancestry scores comprise a very small part of the overall population, the most populous two islands by far being New Providence and Grand Bahama—Long Island, whose population is a tiny percent of the national whole, has an unusually high European percentage because it was settled by a large number of British loyalists after the American revolutionary war.)

    The conditions of these three nations are much more favorable than the vast majority of the rest of the Caribbean and the third world, but they are less so than those of most first world nations, and some remaining (though likely small-modest if present) environmentally iq-depressing factors in some cases are not out of the question.

    • Replies: @Jm8
  445. Jm8 says:

    Edits: The Simms Bahamian dna paper:

    https://digitalcommons.fiu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1455&context=etd

    Also:

    “…with Long Island, Abaco, Eleuthera, Grand Bahama and Exuma sharing approximately 65.4%, 75.0%, 80.3%, 86.7% and 90.4% of their autosomal component with the African collections,…”

    should be:

    “…with Long Island, Abaco, Eleuthera, Grand Bahama and Exuma sharing approximately 65.4%, 75.0%, 80.3%, 86.7% and 90.4% of their autosomal component with the African collections, respectively.”
    (i.e. with the first island listed corresponding to the first percentage listed, and the second with the second, etc—though that was already likely obviously and implied)

  446. Edward says:
    @Truth

    Nobody claimed that the average IQ of European and Canadian immigrants to the US is in the 110-115 range. The person to whom I was relying claimed that the average IQ of Nigerian-Americans is 110-115.

    Richwine’s data suggest that the average IQ of European immigrants to the US is around 100, if I remember correctly. This seems about right: they tend to do worse than East Asians when it comes to educational attainment, slightly worse when it comes to occupation, and somewhat worse when it comes to income. However, their unemployment rates are comparable to those of Asians.

    As noted earlier, they do better than sub-Saharan African immigrants on all three measures, and better when it comes to educational attainment too.

    Nigerian-Americans do better than overall European and Asian immigrants when it comes to educational attainment (one of the only sub-Saharan African groups to do so), though this is partly the result of affirmative action, and they do worse than Asian Indians, Taiwanese and Singaporean immigrants. They do comparably well to or slightly worse than European immigrants when it comes to occupational status, slightly worse when it comes to income, and worse when it comes to unemployment.

    Overall, then, the average Nigerian-American IQ is perhaps around or just below 100, though they may have a higher proportion of people at the right-tail of the bell curve due to their Igbo and Yoruba populations.

  447. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit: . “…brought back by Mansa Musa after his famous trip to Mecca. “…The original mosque of Djenne had nothing to do with Mansa Musa and predated his trip to Mecca.”

  448. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit: “…and perhaps higher in some ethnic and regional groups, like/including: The Yoruba/Edo, Igbo, Akan (and certain other south Nigerian and south Ghanaian groups), the Bamileke (and similar groups) etc…”

  449. Talha says:
    @Jm8

    Thank you much for the correction!

    The style of the Islamic buildings of the western Sudano-sahelian (it is known) style of building was heavily influenced by/based in part on the pre-Islamic/pagan indigenous building practices of the region (along with other Islamic influences)

    This makes total sense, Muslims quite often built their mosques based on local pre-existing norms. Like this mosque on the island of Sumatra:

    Peace.

  450. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edit: “The style of the Islamic buildings of the western “Sudano-sahelian” style (as it is called)…”

  451. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8

    Edits: “Black Bermudians are more mixed but still predominantly subsaharan African at at least about 72% on average genetically (66% “West and Central African” plus 6% “Southern African”—which could be some kind of southern African Bantu but could also somewhat more likely be Angolan Bantu, which is related to Central African and contributed a significant number of slaves in slave trade—in the most recent “genographic” results linked—4th population down at link…)…and the sample also includes some of the mixed or “colored” section of the population, so it is possible that Bermudians classed as black, though they have some admixture, may average a bit more African than that…”

    “…than African Americans, who have about about 15-25% making them about 75-85% African on Average, and sometimes a bit more in certain parts of the southern US…”

  452. Okechukwu says:
    @Edward

    Actually, surveys suggest that the majority of intelligence researchers agree that intelligence differences between groups are partly explained by genetic differences.

    This is a LIE and you know it.

    Even James Flynn, who doesn’t agree with this consensus, has a great deal of respect for people such as Arthur Jensen, Charles Murray and Linda Gottfredson.

    If you really believe that Jensen, Murray, Gottfredson et al represent any sort of consensus then you truly are an idiot. These people are shunned and censured by the overwhelming majorities of the scientific and academic communities.

    But this is a politically-motivated criticism, and by dismissing peer-reviewed evidence as “racialist pseudoscience”, you’ve exposed yourself to be at least partially motivated by politics.

    Scientific racists peer-reviewing each other favorably doesn’t accord any credibility to the claims made by scientific racists.

    You have no idea what the political leanings of the negative peer-reviewers are. They don’t just call these racist pseudoscientists names, they meticulously deconstruct and falsify their arguments in detail. The suggestion that they are politically motivated (because they don’t say what you would like to hear) is odd, given that it’s the racist pseudoscientists that have a politically-motivated agenda. Most of these racist “researchers” are tied to the Pioneer Fund, an avowedly white nationalist organization which makes no effort whatsoever to hide its social policy prescriptions.

    Now, it’s amazing that after giving you links to Pew data and to Census data, you give me a politically-motivated opinion piece which in some cases doesn’t even link to primary data, but to other articles.

    I gave you a Bloomberg piece which was based on actual data and which involved exhaustive research and due-diligence. You introduced Indian-Americans and some other such nonsense that wasn’t germane to the topic.

    I demonstrated quite clearly in my previous post that sub-Saharan African immigrants are below average on almost every economic metric and do worse than South/East Asian immigrants and European/Canadian immigrants educationally.

    Really? Should I post the Bloomberg article again? Because obviously you ran from it and didn’t read it.

    The main thing that Nigerian-Americans (and sub-Saharan African immigrants as a whole) have going for them is undergraduate degree attainment, but this is influenced by affirmative action.

    So Affirmative Action takes tests and writes papers for students? Do you even know how Affirmative Action works? All Affirmative Action does for blacks and other minorities is provide access. Then they have to perform.

    Asian-Americans are discriminated against in the university admissions process, by contrast.

    Asian-Americans may be discriminated against in college admissions, but not because those slots are going to black Students. All blacks, including traditional black Americans, are underrepresented at top-level institutions.

    Many degrees also don’t require particularly high IQs.

    Nigerian-Americans typically earn degrees in medicine, law, engineering, professorships, doctorates, etc. Why do you not consider these high-IQ degrees?

    And even if your allegation about affirmative action for Asians and Blacks concerning employment were true, it would still be the case that despite both Asians and Black African immigrants receiving such affirmative action, Asians do substantially better economically.

    You do realize that Asian-Americans have been in America for generations, right? Africans majorly started arriving in the 70′s. You do realize that there are 15 million Asian-Americans vs. less than 2 million Africans, right? Most Africans come here with nothing, and have to study, work and build up their wealth over time. They have no access to generational wealth. They have no connections. Moreover, being African in the United States doesn’t wash away the social stigma and entrenched racism that all black people face here. As far as the world is concerned, I’m just black. My background is irrelevant. There is little if any racism practiced against Asians. In fact they benefit from a positive stereotype of being “model minorities.” In light of all of that, we are obliged to add several more IQ points to the Nigerian-American score of 110-115 I referenced earlier.

    • Replies: @Ulpia
    , @Edward
  453. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Yes: OCD. Autism. Schizophrenia. All examples of genetics causing “trauma” for the brain, through biological effects that are connected genetically. I could probably name more.

    Yes, those afflictions are partly heritable. But originally your reference was to trauma caused by accidents.

    And I had so much hope for your presumed creativity and verbal intelligence.

    If we could take a poll outside of this cesspool as to who won this debate, I assure you I would be the winner.

    Almost everything else is self-evident, from the fact that humans would survive with a smaller range(and likely would have other adaptations without intelligence)

    Humans were once reduced to such a small number that we were on the brink of extinction. Given a chimpanzee-like brain, and given the unfitness of humans for life on this planet without the benefit of technology, extinction was a foregone conclusion.

    bottlenecking will obviously not be random.

    Yes, it will be random. Random is the very definition of genetic mutations, whether they are harmful, beneficial or neutral. You seem to think that mutations ride a linear path toward perfection. They don’t. Nature doesn’t care. It has no goal.

    Furthermore, in pre-historic societies brute force rather than intelligence ensured the passage of genetic material from one generation to the next. People mated like animals do. Men saw women they wanted and they would take them and rape them. Even in more recent history, most people alive today are products of wholesale rapes brought about by wars, conquests and slavery. No one gave an IQ test to anybody. The rapist didn’t take an IQ test, neither did the rape victim.

    even a population, that, for example, couldn’t drive would still be able to survive. Driving is not an essential survival characteristic. Etc, etc.

    Huh? Say what? All humans can drive. If they couldn’t drive, yes they could survive in modern societies as severely mentally retarded people do today. But would they survive in a pre-historic society? Did people with Down Syndrome survive 20,000 or 10,000 or even 2,000 years ago? Forget about surviving, they were probably killed off in their youth or left on their own to die. Even the Spartans practiced infanticide if they perceived the slightest imperfection in newborns. They weren’t the only ancient people to do so.

    Or that once you realize that cognitive effects can be inherited and rise in a population, then differences can occur without speciation.

    But when I’ve prompted you repeatedly to cite real world examples wherein this racial or ethnic differentiation in cognitive capabilities have manifested, you’ve drawn a blank. It could be that you’re arguing a position you don’t really believe. Or a position you don’t feel strongly enough about to defend.

    Intelligence, at least when subdivided, can indeed be selected for.

    No it can’t. Even if “intelligence genes” can be isolated, the nature of inheritance patterns is such that those genes won’t necessarily be passed on. Clever parents have stupid children all the time. Therefore it’s not a given that intelligence can be selected for even among a small cohort. What’s more, for large cohorts (large groups, ethnicities, races) the frequency of the inheritance of those specific alleles will more or less be replicated in each grouping. That’s why a similar range of intelligence from low to high exists in every population group on earth. That’s why it’s impossible to determine if New York City is more intelligent than Los Angeles or vice versa, because there is tremendous within city variation and between city overlap. The same is true of human races.

    You may, as you surely will, claim victory and blather on – despite just fleeing from being proven incorrect multiple times

    You’re the one claiming victory with this statement even though you most assuredly lost this debate. I don’t see where you’ve proven me incorrect on any salient point. On the contrary, I’ve proven you incorrect on virtually every point you’ve tried to raise.

    Sadly, I know your kind(and by that, I do not mean blacks, but specifically your personality). When in a decade or two when we do find even more definite genetics for intelligence(which already exists), you will still be confident that you were somehow always correct and furthermore, that you should benefit from it.

    When we find genes for intelligence and discover how those genes interact to create intelligence you will find that no group of humans is excluded from that genetic inheritance. As a matter of fact, look around the world now and that should be obvious to you without any future scientific breakthroughs. I can take a child from any loincloth wearing hunter-gatherer tribe in the world, raise him in San Francisco or London and he will assimilate the culture, master the technology and maybe oven become a rocket scientist. Because human intelligence is all the same everywhere.

  454. Ulpia says:
    @Okechukwu

    I gave you a Bloomberg piece which was based on actual data and which involved exhaustive research and due-diligence. You introduced Indian-Americans and some other such nonsense that wasn’t germane to the topic.

    Mate, not one thing in this article involved exhaustive research and due-diligence.

    Just look at the sources they quote for the sentence below. A web 2.0 site called Africa Resource that talks about the census from 2000.

    https://www.africaresource.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=235:african-immigrants-are-the-most-educated&catid=135:immigration&Itemid=348

    According to Census data, more than 43 percent of African immigrants hold a bachelor’s degree or higher — slightly more than immigrants from East Asia.

    The paragraph below is also quite false and you can see it by actually going directly into the US Census Bureau American Community Survey and not relying on this poorly written article.

    Korean: $67,870
    Dutch: $66,528
    Nigerian: $65,940

    That education translates into higher household income. Nigerian-Americans, for instance, have a median household income well above the American average, and above the average of many white and Asian groups, such as those of Dutch or Korean descent.

  455. @Okechukwu

    Well, yes. Although I think you would have to take a group of children because we are all biologically different. Not everyone can be a champion sprinter however much they train but one the whole, I vote for environment over genes in determining outcomes.

    As I have said before. IQ is a good tool for measuring differences in ability to perform well on school work for members of the 6th Form at Eton or between 16 year old leavers at Bishop Auckland comprehensive. But it is not a good tool to compare the inherited biological potential of the Etonians and the Aucklandians. Their life experiences are just so far apart. And yet, rural children in Monze Zambia, from households where no one can read, are assessed on the same yardstick as the Old Etonians when IQ is discussed. People vary biologically, groups vary biologically; to say otherwise is also dogma. IQ has its place but it is a limited one.

  456. Factorize says:

    This might shed some light on the secular increase in IQ.
    It seems counter-intuitive, though, that low SES is now having less of an effect in America than it did 80 years ago.

    Article speaks of funding through the Unz Foundation. Might be in anyway related to those from this forum?

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/10/03/429860.full.pdf+html

  457. @Okechukwu

    You continue to demonstrate the inability to visualize the actual meaning of the words you say, but this may indeed but the most impressive self-pwn yet.

    Furthermore, in pre-historic societies brute force rather than intelligence ensured the passage of genetic material from one generation to the next.

    This is after you went on for many posts insisting that intelligence of some sort of equal yet platonic definition was of absolute essential nature for human survival. Reproduction is part of survival. This is, of course, overall ridiculous. Brute force and intelligence are not positive and negative numbers that cancel each other.

    We could use even non-human primates as models, but in chimpanzees this is by and far the most obvious. They are powerful creatures that fully utilize such tactics of brute force with males organizing into parties that snatch females from other troops and generally seek to cause mayhem, but there’s plenty of intelligence involved in it. For one example:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War

    Even with brute force, chimpanzees are aware of using ambushes, capable of perceiving the strength of the opposing troop, and choosing to be aggressive or avoidant, etc. In their social lives, this is even more obvious and in fact considered a mechanism for why their relatives evolved into humans: chimpanzees are capable of creating political alliances, utilizing deceptive behavior, or even develop simple culture. Even further extending your self-pwn is the fact that bonobos are an excellent example of a primate that obviously does not emphasize brute strength for reproduction, being almost completely non-violent and female-dominated yet are almost totally identical to chimpanzees(and may, in fact, be the same species with cultural differences, being totally fertile with each other).

    Bonobos also put a lie to the notion that brute strength is necessary to survival or a specific human intelligence is needed to survival – they obviously survive without the latter and mostly do not use the former. They have an extremely limited range, with fruits and foraging making up the overwhelming part of its diet. If they weren’t separated from chimpanzees and gorillas, they would probably go extinct, yet. But they are, and so they remain.

    Its self-evident that survival and reproduction is a combination of strength, intelligence, etc. Every single decision utilizes a form of intelligence: a wolf choosing to go after large prey in water is choosing to risk drowning for a kill, or a wolf withdrawing from hunts in frustration is because it “chose” a better decisions. With primates, we have clear evidence of this – chimpanzees actually have better working memory than humans. Humans are, in a narrow fashion, actually dumber. Yet obviously we are better adapted for wide-spread survival.

    But when I’ve prompted you repeatedly to cite real world examples wherein this racial or ethnic differentiation in cognitive capabilities have manifested, you’ve drawn a blank.

    Because I know your game. Anything I claim, you will simply reply with the notion that the environment is not equal, even though simultaneously you claim that all humans live in the same biome. Your inconsistent view must establish that cognition is unique, cognition is equally selected for, yet environment is not, and all biome is the same but also biome is not environment. Since intelligence is difficult to define, you will weasel out of anything. If I use IQ, you will challenge its cultural nature. If I used a skill of any sort, you will challenge the training effect. Even if I were to find a different in say, speed of neuron connectivity(a good causal method of memory, a form of intelligence), you will attack the source or eventually disconnect memory from intelligence.

    Its easier to establish the mechanism first. Both are pointless since you don’t actually seem to understand the meaning behind the words you use. I know your games.

    Yes, it will be random. Random is the very definition of genetic mutations, whether they are harmful, beneficial or neutral. You seem to think that mutations ride a linear path toward perfection.

    Nonsense, and excellent evidence that you barely understand anything you’re talking about.

    https://io9.gizmodo.com/5501565/extinction-events-that-almost-wiped-out-humans

    A catastrophe induced bottleneck has another factor affecting evolution. It isn’t just a bottleneck, it’s a bottleneck under pressure. The kinds of dire circumstances that you can imagine would follow a supervolcanic eruption take “survival of the fittest” to a much higher level. Now, that beneficial mutation (say a larger brain that makes it easier to hunt sparse game and build crude shelters) still spreads through a large percentage of the species, but in addition, every genetic line without that mutation dies off (or moves away to somewhere they can hack it). The result: rapid speciation.

    But let us take a FAR more classic example.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

    Change the environment and the species pretty rapidly changes in trait, especially if it already occurred in some measure. Kill a large portion of the population and a limited genetic subset will rapidly rise. Its also known as the “founder effect”, which has been repeatedly established in humans – mostly for negative genetic illnesses, but also for neutral ones such as having more twins.

    Now, as the debate has finished and you’re clearly incorrect, let us analyze your limited thinking capability. Pay attention and you may learn some new words.

    Your method is solipsism: reality only exists because of how you define it. Therefore you are the “source of truth” regardless of anything else that is established. This is also why you can claim anything as perfect, because the universe only exists by your opinion.

    This extends into your various other lies and deflections. One, since your opinion is all that matters, any god of the gaps favors you; any doubt in a method means that you are correct. In fact, not understanding something means that you are correct. Second, since reality is malleable so you can claim anything you want – fact-free – and do so in order to enhance your presumed status. Moreover, even if you are proven incorrect in a fashion that you cannot deny, you will simply reconcile it by ignoring it because in the end, establishing your ego is of supreme importance above any notion of truth. Finally, since emotion takes on this paramount importance, it is also of vital value that you attack others personally(also, always fact-free) since disturbing them emotionally impacts truth somehow – a logical conclusion if truth is somehow the result of mental belief. So begins and ends the circle of solipsism.

    I am a pleasant person, so enjoy the free education that you’ve gained from me, limited as it must be in utility for one of your blessings.

    • Replies: @Bliss
    , @Okechukwu
  458. BADmejr says:

    It is kind of funny that this author “refutes” the narrative that selective immigration has anything to do with this “black” performance in the UK, yet even using figures only from the UK, it requires selective exclusions of many black groups in the UK to derive these conclusions. I have read racial IQ research on all sides for years, and this black performance in the UK discussion is not new.

    It is also funny how the “environment ONLY” crowd (versus hereditarian position of genes/environment) finds one set of data that appears to contradict the predictions of hereditarians and instantly claim outright victory in the debate. There is a whole lot more to explain.

    I’d like to read the author’s rebuttal of each and every line of evidence presented in the below. That is obviously wishful thinking, as the main rebuttal method consists merely of ad hominem attacks against hereditarians that present real challenges to the religion of egalitarianism through meticulous research that must clear far higher hurdles for publication than those espousing environment only views.

    https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf

  459. @Okechukwu

    I can take a child from any loincloth wearing hunter-gatherer tribe in the world, raise him in San Francisco or London and he will assimilate the culture, master the technology and maybe oven become a rocket scientist.

    Please do this great experiment because then you would have disproven all those racist white-supreeeemist IQ fake scientist out there.

    When will you have some results?

  460. Bliss says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Since intelligence is difficult to define, you will weasel out of anything. If I use IQ, you will challenge its cultural nature.

    If “intelligence is difficult to define” why the hell do you “use IQ” to define and measure it?

    If I used a skill of any sort, you will challenge the training effect.

    Only a clueless idiot could deny the effect training has on skills.

  461. Edward says:
    @Okechukwu

    This is a LIE and you know it.

    Nope. Enjoy: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.00399/full

    These people are shunned and censured by the overwhelming majorities of the scientific and academic communities.

    As the survey above demonstrates, these people’s views are widely shared by the relevant experts: intelligence researchers. Just as I wouldn’t ask an intelligence researcher about climate science, I wouldn’t ask climate scientists about intelligence.

    To demonstrate how seriously Gottfredson is taken in the field, here’s an excellent interview of her by David Lubinski (the acclaimed co-ordinator of the Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth) at the International Society for Intelligence Research (ISIR) conference in 2016. She was receiving a Distinguished Contributor Award.

    I gave you a Bloomberg piece which was based on actual data and which involved exhaustive research and due-diligence. You introduced Indian-Americans and some other such nonsense that wasn’t germane to the topic.

    You claimed that the average IQ of Nigerian-Americans is between 110 and 115. Our best estimate of the average IQ of Indian-Americans is 112. I then proceeded to show that Nigerian-Americans lag significantly behind Indian-Americans on every metric.

    As for the Bloomberg article, commenter Ulpia expanded on what I pointed out to you and has dissected it very well indeed. Contrary to the claims made in the article (which did not even cite primary data for two of its claims):

    a) Sub-Saharan African immigrants are less educated than European/Canadian immigrants and Asian immigrants. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/05/03/key-findings-about-u-s-immigrants/

    b) Nigerian-Americans have approximately the same median household income as White Americans. https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

    c) Korean and Dutch median household incomes are higher than the household incomes of Nigerian-Americans. https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

    All Affirmative Action does for blacks and other minorities is provide access.

    Precisely, and by lowering the standards for admission, the value of the degree (which mostly consists in its ability to signal qualities such as intelligence) diminishes. That 59% of Nigerian-Americans have at least an undergraduate degree tells us little about their average IQ if standards have to be lowered.

    Asian-Americans may be discriminated against in college admissions, but not because those slots are going to black Students. All blacks, including traditional black Americans, are underrepresented at top-level institutions.

    Those slots are going to black and Hispanic students. If affirmative action was not being practiced, blacks would be even more underrepresented at top-level institutions, and Asian-Americans would make up more of the student body (as they do in California, where affirmative action is banned).

    This was found by Harvard’s 2013 internal investigation. If affirmative action, subjective personality ratings (assigned by the admissions office; interviewers rate the personalities of Asians as comparable to those of other groups), and legacy/athlete admissions were discarded in favour of a meritocratic admissions system, the share of Asian-Americans in Harvard would rise from 19% to 43%. Asian-Americans tend to make up around this proportion of the student body in the rigorously meritocratic Caltech as well as public universities in California.

    Admission to Oxford and Cambridge in the UK also remains meritocratic, being based on a combination of academic grades (high overall scores are needed and minimum requirements need to be met), aptitude (cognitive ability) tests, and rigorous interviews. Pertinent to this article is the fact that Blacks in the UK are underrepresented at Oxbridge, because they don’t attain the top grades at high enough rates. This is a source of much chagrin for politicians such as David Lammy, who are trying to introduce affirmative action here.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    , @Truth
  462. @Okechukwu

    ‘Black Americans are likely the highest IQ population in the world…’

    Thanks for bringing a smile to my day.

  463. @Okechukwu

    Black Americans are likely the highest IQ population in the world.

    This is an interesting thought and I would urge you to spread the good word more widely.

    However, if that is true it seems Black Americans would benefit from being free of White Americans (and other Americans).

    Have you considered founding Wakanda and urging Black Americans to move there?

  464. @Jesse James

    How did you get 10,000 years?

    Sub-Sahara wasn’t negroid until Bantu invasion.

  465. Factorize says:

    Africa is rising and Nigeria is at the epicenter of this transformation.

    Demographic pressures are creating resource constraints and the environment necessary for the social stratification required for psychometric uplift to occur naturally. There is no reason to expect that the same preconditions will not lead to the same consequences.
    Environment will drive genetic change.

    Even with a weak implementation of genetic technology a 1 IQ point increase which took a thousand years in other world populations might be achieved in a hundred in SSA.

    For whatever reason, this thread has overlooked this self-evident truth.

  466. Factorize says:

    Recent research has found that over the last few centuries the virtual elimination of selective forces in developed nations against various maladaptive behaviors has resulted, as would be expected, an increased frequencies of such behaviors. Yet, this same process has not been as prominent in less developed nations. Thus, technological progress has been won at the expense of developed nations having conspicuously lower mental well-being than those nations that have not underwent the same changes.

    Polygenic selection could change all of that. In addition to IQ, there are a great number of other traits that will dramatically be reengineered by the unlocking of the human genome. What would seem self-evidently true is that nations that do not embrace this technology will fall so far behind that it will no longer question about differences among humans but differences among different species of humanoids.

    As an example, consider the url for a GWAS for maladaptive alcohol use.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/08/02/275917.full.pdf+html

  467. Okechukwu says:
    @Edward

    As the survey above demonstrates, these people’s views are widely shared by the relevant experts: intelligence researchers

    Do you even understand what a scientific consensus is? No, it’s not a small sample size E-mail “survey” of questionable veracity, questionable authenticity and questionable controls. To give you an example, the theory of gravity enjoys wide scientific consensus. Can you identify a single institution of learning anywhere in the world that teaches racial differences in intelligence? Oh, but of course you’ll say political correctness prevents these great truths from gaining currency. Okay, how about in Mongolia or Saudi Arabia or Nepal or Russia or either Korea or China or Japan or Tajikistan or Poland, etc.? In other words, name any country anywhere in the world where this stuff is taken seriously.

    You CANNOT have a consensus on this matter because it is easily falsified. In order for what you are claiming to be valid, you (and that means you!) would have to be more intelligent than me. And that most assuredly isn’t the case. Do you understand how the scientific method works? All it takes to disprove a hypothesis is one single counterexample.

    To demonstrate how seriously Gottfredson is taken in the field, here’s an excellent interview of her by David Lubinski

    She’s not taken seriously in the field of race and IQ. None of the rogues gallery of Pioneer Fund “researchers” are.

    Precisely, and by lowering the standards for admission, the value of the degree (which mostly consists in its ability to signal qualities such as intelligence) diminishes.

    There’s no evidence that standards are lowered for Africans or their children. Quite the contrary, we’ve had many instances of Africans with perfect GPA’s who are chased after by all the best schools in the country.

    Those slots are going to black and Hispanic students. If affirmative action was not being practiced, blacks would be even more underrepresented at top-level institutions

    American schools use various criteria in evaluating applicants. If only the top scholars gained entrance many whites wouldn’t make it either. It could be something as simple as an admissions essay or interview. If an Asian student accustomed to rote learning isn’t able to express himself creatively, he probably isn’t getting in over someone with lower grades but greater creativity.

    Admission to Oxford and Cambridge in the UK also remains meritocratic, being based on a combination of academic grades (high overall scores are needed and minimum requirements need to be met), aptitude (cognitive ability) tests, and rigorous interviews. Pertinent to this article is the fact that Blacks in the UK are underrepresented at Oxbridge, because they don’t attain the top grades at high enough rates.

    So you believe that Asians are being discriminated against in America but you refuse to acknowledge discrimination against black students in the UK.

    Oxford and Cambridge Accused of ‘Social Apartheid’ as Colleges Admit No Black Students

    One in five Cambridge colleges and one in three Oxford colleges failed to admit a single black student with A-levels (the most commonly-taken final exams in Britain) in 2015, according to data obtained by David Lammy, a former education minister.

    Together, they have long been accused of inequality and privilege, with previous statistics showing even starker evidence of systemic bias. In 2009, it emerged that 21 of the 69 Oxbridge colleges admitted no black students with A-levels. Lammy, who obtained the data using freedom of information laws, writes in the Guardian: “Seven years has changed nothing at Oxbridge.”

    http://time.com/4990798/oxford-cambridge-social-apartheid-black-students/

    This discrimination is much more blatant, stark and exclusionary than anything Asians face in the United States.

    • Replies: @Edward
    , @Edward
  468. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    This is after you went on for many posts insisting that intelligence of some sort of equal yet platonic definition was of absolute essential nature for human survival. Reproduction is part of survival. This is, of course, overall ridiculous. Brute force and intelligence are not positive and negative numbers that cancel each other.

    Jesus, you’re obtuse. My point is that the most intelligent don’t necessarily win out and pass on their genes, particularly in pre-civilization societies. But with or without civilization, random chance dictates who people meet and copulate with.

    We could use even non-human primates as models, but in chimpanzees this is by and far the most obvious. They are powerful creatures that fully utilize such tactics of brute force with males organizing into parties that snatch females from other troops and generally seek to cause mayhem, but there’s plenty of intelligence involved in it.

    As I’ve explained, humans with chimp intelligence but lacking mitigating chimp attributes would go extinct.

    Bonobos also put a lie to the notion that brute strength is necessary to survival or a specific human intelligence is needed to survival

    You’re strawmanning. I never said that brute strength was a necessary precondition for survival. Intelligence is the most critical survival trait. But all humans have intelligence.

    With primates, we have clear evidence of this – chimpanzees actually have better working memory than humans. Humans are, in a narrow fashion, actually dumber. Yet obviously we are better adapted for wide-spread survival.

    Humans can’t quickly scamper up a tree to avoid a lion. Humans can’t raise their young in trees, safe from predators. You are trying to present arguments I never made so you can knock them down. We all know that intelligence isn’t a necessary precondition for life on earth. Long after we’re gone, the dumbest creatures in existence will still be here.

    Because I know your game. Anything I claim, you will simply reply with the notion that the environment is not equal, even though simultaneously you claim that all humans live in the same biome.

    Environment is irrelevant to innate intelligence. You’re stuck on IQ, for which environment does have significant relevance. I ask you again, where on earth has your theory of group differences in innate intelligence manifested? Further, if we take young children from that society and raise them in “high IQ” societies will they not adapt, acculturate and outperform many members of that “high IQ” society?

    Nonsense, and excellent evidence that you barely understand anything you’re talking about.

    Oh, so mutations aren’t random in your universe. Talk to a biologist. My wife has a PhD. Maybe she can give you a free lesson.

    Change the environment and the species pretty rapidly changes in trait, especially if it already occurred in some measure. Kill a large portion of the population and a limited genetic subset will rapidly rise. Its also known as the “founder effect”, which has been repeatedly established in humans – mostly for negative genetic illnesses, but also for neutral ones such as having more twins.

    Yeah, SPECIES. Humans are a single species, are they not? So whatever change you’re talking about, as relates to cognition, happened to all humans.

    Now, as the debate has finished and you’re clearly incorrect, let us analyze your limited thinking capability. Pay attention and you may learn some new words.

    Fuck, you’re a moron. I’ve kicked your sorry ass all over this board yet you continue to claim victory.

    Your method is solipsism: reality only exists because of how you define it. Therefore you are the “source of truth” regardless of anything else that is established. This is also why you can claim anything as perfect, because the universe only exists by your opinion.

    Unbeknownst to you, you are describing yourself here, as any reasonable observer can attest.

  469. Truth says:
    @Edward

    b) Nigerian-Americans have approximately the same median household income as White Americans.

    You do realize this is the most significant part of your post, right?

    • Replies: @Edward
  470. Edward says:
    @Okechukwu

    Your comments are becoming increasingly ridiculous.

    Firstly, you appear to be under the impression that a few well-publicised cases of Africans getting good GPAs mean that the large body of evidence that standards are lowered for Blacks in the United States has been refuted. Hilarious.

    Secondly, I’m perfectly aware that the proportion of whites would fall to some extent if grades and the SAT were the only criteria used for admission. What is your point? And Asian-Americans do reasonably well when it comes to extracurriculars and interviews too, so the notion that they can’t express themselves “creatively” (whatever that means) is ridiculous.

    Third, it’s hilarious that you appear to believe the unfounded accusations against Oxbridge. What happened to “due diligence”? A cursory glance at the data would demonstrate that Blacks are perfectly represented in Oxbridge relative to the numbers who achieve 3 ‘A’ grades at A-Level, which is a minimum requirement for Oxbridge entry.

    Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are actually slightly underrepresented in Oxbridge relative to the numbers getting 3 ‘A’ grades, as are Asians (including Indians and East Asians) as a whole. This can be explained by the fact that Asians tend to apply to the most competitive courses, such as Medicine and Law.

    Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are also underrepresented relative to their population size, but this is explained by the fact that like Blacks they do not get 3 ‘A’ grades at high enough rates.

    Asians as a whole are overrepresented relative to their population size, explained by the fact that Indians and East Asians achieve 3 ‘A’ grades at very high rates.

    Thus, a simple look at the data explains everything. Oxbridge discriminate against no one.

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current/ethnicity?wssl=1

  471. Edward says:
    @Truth

    How is it significant? As I said earlier:

    Nigerian-Americans do better than overall European and Asian immigrants when it comes to educational attainment (one of the only sub-Saharan African groups to do so), though this is partly the result of affirmative action, and they do worse than Asian Indians, Taiwanese and Singaporean immigrants. They do comparably well to or slightly worse than European immigrants when it comes to occupational status, slightly worse when it comes to income, and worse when it comes to unemployment.

    Overall, then, the average Nigerian-American IQ is perhaps around or just below 100, though they may have a higher proportion of people at the right-tail of the bell curve due to their Igbo and Yoruba populations.

    I would add the following: they do comparably well to White Americans when it comes to income and occupational status, and worse when it comes to unemployment.

    This isn’t surprising in my model. It would be very surprising in a model which puts the average Nigerian-American IQ at “110-115”, as that joker did above.

  472. Edward says:
    @Okechukwu

    Apologies for the second reply, but on the Oxbridge issue, I would highly recommend reading the following article, which looks at the Cambridge data.

    …white students are in fact also under-represented at Cambridge, while some Asian groups are significantly over-represented. Croxford’s comment that Cambridge is ‘overwhelmingly white’ is too crude.

    Only 2.2% of last year’s intake was of black ethnic origin (Oxford’s figure was 1.9%), an under-representation of the 3.3% in the UK population, but representative of those achieving three As at A-level. As for the rest of the intake: 77.1% was white, 5.1% Indian, 1.1% Pakistani, 0.9% Bangladeshi, 2.9% Chinese, and 1.8% Other Asian background. At the 2011 census, whites made up 86% of the UK population, so no over-representation there. Indian-background students were over-represented, despite forming the UK’s third largest ethnic group with 1.4 million people (2.5% of the population), followed by Pakistanis at 1.1 million (2%), who are under-represented.

    Black (and white) under-representation is the expense of the over-representation of various groups. Chinese students are the most over-represented large group – by a factor of three – comprising 2.9% of Cambridge’s intake but only 0.7% of the population.

    It does note that there needs to be more transparency when it comes to how the different Oxbridge colleges admit students, but the brutal fact is that Black (and Bangladeshi and Pakistani) underrepresentation in Oxbridge relative to population size is overwhelmingly due to the fact that they do not achieve the top grades at A-Level and GCSE at high enough rates, and do not do well enough in aptitude (cognitive ability) tests.

    https://thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2018/06/05/cambridge-does-not-have-a-dearth-of-black-students-112428

  473. @Peter Frost

    Well done. As far as I can tell, rate of maturity impacts intellectual development, and it is this ‘difference in depth of Neoteny’ that produces the adult differences in behavior of groups.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic commenter
  474. @Curt Doolittle

    Well done. As far as I can tell, rate of maturity impacts intellectual development, and it is this ‘difference in depth of Neoteny’ that produces the adult differences in behavior of groups.

    Unless you are claiming that ‘depth of Neoteny’ is also correlated with further brain development there seems to be more than that occurring.

    Eg: Brain size, IQ, and racial-group differences: Evidence from musculoskeletal traits

    Rushton claims that:

    A review of the world literature on brain size and IQ by Rushton [Rushton, J. P. (1995). Race, evolution, and behavior: a life history perspective. New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction] found that African-descended people (Blacks) average cranial capacities of 1267 cm3, European-descended people (Whites) 1347 cm3, and East Asian-descended people (East Asians) 1364 cm3.

    In addition, Rushton claims that these differences show up very early:

    The races differ in average brain size and this shows up at birth. Rushton (1997) analyzed the enormous US data set known as the Collaborative Perinatal Project. It recorded head circumference measurements and IQ scores from 50,000 children followed from birth to age 7 (Broman, Nichols, Shaugnessy, & Kennedy, 1987). The results showed that at birth, 4 months, 1 year, and 7 years, the East Asian children in the study averaged larger cranial volumes than did the White children, who averaged larger cranial volumes than did the Black children.

    The full PDF is here:

    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8433/5e553e88cfcc13fc9366715dbc21b27f26f5.pdf?_ga=2.104154240.1040775150.1539285684-323072795.1539285684

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
  475. @Peripatetic commenter

    The correlation between brain volume and IQ is in the range of 0.3 – 0.4. This is a moderate correlation, and not all of it is cause and effect, i.e., the same selection pressure that has increased cognitive ability has also increased brain volume. It doesn’t follow, however, that brain volume is critical to cognitive ability for the range of brain volume values in question. People with high IQ can have relatively small brains. We know, for instance, that brain volume actually decreased after humans went from hunting and gathering to farming (probably because hunters need to store large quantities of spatiotemporal data).The key factors for IQ seem to be plasticity of neural tissue and speed of neural transmission.

    I probably haven’t convinced you with this brief comment. You will have to explain, however, why black children can perform well on IQ tests when placed in an enriched learning environment. The usual counter-explanation is that the black children in question aren’t really representative because they come from a select, high-performing group. This kind of explanation is credible in the case of the Igbo (who seem to have been shaped by a different evolutionary history), but it seems to me less credible to argue that West African immigrants in general are elite individuals. For one thing, a single selection event cannot boost mean IQ by over one standard deviation — unless that event is really extreme. For another, most West African immigrants seem to have ordinary family backgrounds (petty traders, politicians, etc.). I’ve met quite a few, and most of them had average or somewhat above-average backgrounds.

  476. I probably haven’t convinced you with this brief comment. You will have to explain, however, why black children can perform well on IQ tests when placed in an enriched learning environment.

    I think it has to do with the fact that IQ tests are age normed, and as children it is not hard for them to keep up, but as they age, blacks fail to develop the additional brain power that whites and Asians do …

    Also, I think you have to explain why there is a brain volume difference on average between the groups.

    The costs associated with large brains would tend to remove all unnecessary tissue.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
  477. @Peripatetic commenter

    you have to explain why there is a brain volume difference on average between the groups.

    Differences in the need for memory storage, specifically storage of spatial and temporal coordinates.

    I don’t know how to insert a graphic into a comment, but you will find a map of geographic variation in brain volume at this link:

    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2011/07/brain-size-and-latitude-why-correlation.html

    Brain size correlates with latitude. The largest brains are found among the native inhabitants of northern Asia and North America. On IQ tests, Inuit and Siberian natives don’t do badly, but they don’t do as well as Chinese and Japanese, who nonetheless have smaller brains. Inuit do, however, excel at visual memory. That kind of mental capacity is needed to hunt game over large expanses of land and sea. If you don’t rem