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Percentages who think jockeys should be allowed to whip their horses:


The survey was conducted in the San Diego metropolitan area so it’s not necessarily nationally representative and the black sample was too small for the survey to report on. The low Asian figure is the only thing I find surprising about the results.

And don’t go speculating on how the above and the below could be related, you misogynistic pig:

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Entertainment, Polling 
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  1. I took an elephant ride in Thailand in 2001. (Bro-tip: Never take an elephant ride.) The little Thai guys who rode on the heads of the elephants acted humane with the elephants when they were with tourists, but we happened to ride by the elephant pen and I saw with shock a couple guides absolutely caning the shit out of a couple of the beasts to get them to heel.

  2. I’m not sure what you’re getting at with that last sentence, A.E., but then I don’t know for sure who the guy on the right is (Victor Orban?).

    If it’s about what the percentages would be for people who agreed that anyone should be able to whip Angela Merkel, then you’re gonna need to go ahead enlarge that vertical axis right now.

    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @Rosie

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at with that last sentence, A.E., but then I don’t know for sure who the guy on the right is (Victor Orban?).
     
    He's insinuating that women are traitors because we generally don't approve of cruelty to animals.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Ha!

    Yes, it's Orban. Assuming that whipping horses gets them to run faster and/or more responsively--which I assume it does, or the jockeys wouldn't do it--it's a hard decision for a desired result.
  3. That was quick and painless compared to what the dogs go through at the Chinese Dog Meat Festival.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Thanks for not sharing a link!
  4. Would they prefer jockeys using cattle prods?

    It may be my White Privilege showing, but I think bosses should still be allowed to whip employees. Would love to see that survey.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I think bosses should still be allowed to whip employees.
     
    Only if they are Indians? ;)

    What about children?

  5. @The Alarmist
    Would they prefer jockeys using cattle prods?

    It may be my White Privilege showing, but I think bosses should still be allowed to whip employees. Would love to see that survey.

    I think bosses should still be allowed to whip employees.

    Only if they are Indians? 😉

    What about children?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    Most definitely, Sahib!
  6. The low Asian figure is the only thing I find surprising about the results.

    Very fancy Asians these in San Diego.

    I’ve had to kick a few horses and dogs in my day.

  7. @Twinkie

    I think bosses should still be allowed to whip employees.
     
    Only if they are Indians? ;)

    What about children?

    Most definitely, Sahib!

  8. For some reason I thought that actual whipping did not occur. But that riders learned that grazing the horse was as effective or more so in messaging to speed up.

    The practice is so refined that one can be penalized with fines for abuse.

    • Replies: @Dividualist
    Horses have a high pain tolerance - just look at the friendly bites they give to each other. Pretty sure the whip cannot cause them any real pain.
  9. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:

    To put it another way, audacious, let’s say you have two white newborn babies: identical twins. You let the biological parents keep one twin (let’s say they are UMC SWPLs who both have master’s degrees and six figure paychecks). He grows up in a leafy suburb and attends an elite private school. He never knows poverty, tropical diseases, or violence.

    You let the other twin get adopted by a subsistence farmer couple in Africa. He never learns to speak English; instead his first and only language is some African tribal lingo. He survives tropical diseases, but at great cost to his neurological and physical devleopment. He endures periods of famine and war.

    So according to you “race realists” and “HBD” proponents, these two guys will turn out exactly the same as adults, because you believe in genes and race uber alles. You guys are just as far from the truth as the liberals.

    • Troll: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    That's a strawman. No one argues that. HBD realists understand that nurture isn't everything.

    In your example, the twins won't be exactly the same, but neither will the twin adopted in Africa be the same as his brothers and sisters in his adopted subsistence farmer family.
  10. There is some question as to whether the whip is used as a safety and control measure or is it used to make them run faster. I would definitely be okay in the first instance but would have some reservations in the 2nd. The bigger picture is that horse racing will eventually be banned like dog racing, fox hunting and bull fighting. An even bigger picture is the question of whether it is “okay” for us to breed animals for our use when it is detrimental to the individual animals. For example, turkeys that can’t breed, chickens that can’t stand, horses with thin fragile leg bones, dogs that can’t breathe properly, etc., and we are not even getting into foie gras territory.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @SaneClownPosse
    Duplicate.
  11. @EliteCommInc.
    For some reason I thought that actual whipping did not occur. But that riders learned that grazing the horse was as effective or more so in messaging to speed up.

    The practice is so refined that one can be penalized with fines for abuse.

    Horses have a high pain tolerance – just look at the friendly bites they give to each other. Pretty sure the whip cannot cause them any real pain.

  12. How many of those surveyed actually had any experience of horsemanship? Its not the kind of thing one can have an opinion on unless you’ve been riding. A whip is essential to maintain some control over a horse. The issue is whether it is being used excessively, not whether it should be used at all or whether a rider should even carry one.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Since most people don't, the male-female disparity is probably attributable to men tending towards reacting with "if riders have whips, there must be reasons" and women towards "hurting horses is horrible!"
    , @SaneClownPosse
    They should run the survey in Kentucky near the end of April.
  13. @Achmed E. Newman
    I'm not sure what you're getting at with that last sentence, A.E., but then I don't know for sure who the guy on the right is (Victor Orban?).

    If it's about what the percentages would be for people who agreed that anyone should be able to whip Angela Merkel, then you're gonna need to go ahead enlarge that vertical axis right now.

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at with that last sentence, A.E., but then I don’t know for sure who the guy on the right is (Victor Orban?).

    He’s insinuating that women are traitors because we generally don’t approve of cruelty to animals.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I can't tell, but if that's the case, the point would be that women's general compassion-without-longterm-thinking creates cruelty to animals - those would be the human animals, such as the regular German people. They now have to put up with more job losses, even higher taxes, and danger to their children, due to the compassion of women like Commie Angela Merkel, after she saw pictures that made her cry.

    Compassion - Wisdom = Evil is the 2nd formulation having come out of the Peak Stupidity theoretical-stupidity research labs lately.

    Our Stupiditicians, located on our Bombay campus, right behind those green dumpsters near the Taj Jamal, have also come up with the following, which applies most especially to Socialist/Communist totalitarian systems, such as old Red China, and the old USSR:

    Absolute Power + Stupidity = Evil

    Because I'm a generous man, we present these results at no charge to the reader. However, we do take tips (I know, I know, "buy low, sell high").
    , @Audacious Epigone
    No, no, I'm insinuating the opposite. Didn't you see where I preemptively labelled anyone who would do exactly that as misogynistic pig?!
    , @SFG
    My thoughts were:

    1. AE is trying to have some fun by showing something light and off the wall
    2. AE is fantasizing about Orban whipping Merkel
    3. Mrs. AE better not forget her safeword.
  14. @Rosie

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at with that last sentence, A.E., but then I don’t know for sure who the guy on the right is (Victor Orban?).
     
    He's insinuating that women are traitors because we generally don't approve of cruelty to animals.

    I can’t tell, but if that’s the case, the point would be that women’s general compassion-without-longterm-thinking creates cruelty to animals – those would be the human animals, such as the regular German people. They now have to put up with more job losses, even higher taxes, and danger to their children, due to the compassion of women like Commie Angela Merkel, after she saw pictures that made her cry.

    Compassion – Wisdom = Evil is the 2nd formulation having come out of the Peak Stupidity theoretical-stupidity research labs lately.

    Our Stupiditicians, located on our Bombay campus, right behind those green dumpsters near the Taj Jamal, have also come up with the following, which applies most especially to Socialist/Communist totalitarian systems, such as old Red China, and the old USSR:

    Absolute Power + Stupidity = Evil

    Because I’m a generous man, we present these results at no charge to the reader. However, we do take tips (I know, I know, “buy low, sell high”).

    • Replies: @Rosie

    They now have to put up with more job losses, even higher taxes, and danger to their children, due to the compassion of women like Commie Angela Merkel, after she saw pictures that made her cry.
     
    The problem with this argument is that Merkel is a puppet just like the vast majority of all politicians in the Western world. They do as they are told, as you well know.

    Cherry-picking one particularly shitty woman politician to compare with one particularly excellent Male politician is a patently dishonest cheap shot that totally ignores the role of Male greed for cheap labor in bringing on the current demographic disaster.

    The patently absurd claim is that Merkel is more representative of women's natural immigration preferences than the supermajority of working-class White women who voted for Trump in 2016.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    In my observation, most of the extreme animal lovers are so due to nothing more than a mix of virtue signaling and narcissism.

    Example: My wife is a big time animal lover, but she will not declaw our cats, and she she will not hesitate to put a pet down once it is clear the animal has passed beyond any reasonable quality of life. I also hunt and while she refuses to participate, she understands the value and purpose of hunting and will at least try the meat when I bring it home. I like to think that my presence in her life has contributed positively towards her outlook. (True story: two red tail hawks were apparently fighting in mid air yesterday when they both came crashing down onto our deck, and scared the shit out of my wife who was about 15 feet away. She was freaking out, calling me, 311, animal control, the county, trying to figure out what to do because one was lying on its back and looked hurt, as the other stood over it. 15 minutes later she went back to check on them and they were gone. She did get a picture of them though.)

    Now my sister in law, she's the very bad kind of animal lover. Adopts every stray she runs across. Declaws them. Has had up to 8 cats and dogs living in her 600 sf condo where she is gone most of the day. Hires a dog walker because she is too lazy. Spends 1000's of dollars on medical care for animals that would be better off put down. (That veterinarians do not give her practical council in these matters speaks to their ethics.) Refuses to put pets down that are clearly in constant discomfort or are so deaf and blind they cannot find their food or the litter box or are continually walking into things. Protests circuses and hunting and supports all the other silly ASPCA related nonsense like "adopting" rescues or endangered reptiles on some island somewhere that she will never see, and tries to get us to do it as well (we don't.)

    The latter example is a case of pure virtue signaling and narcissism, and the best example is the refusal to put an animal down, because of the guilt and sadness she (meaning my sister in law) will feel about it. Nevermind that the animal is clearly suffering or cannot function normally. It's about her feelings first.

    Pets and animals trigger that same pathology that social media does in people, but more so in women.
  15. @Achmed E. Newman
    I can't tell, but if that's the case, the point would be that women's general compassion-without-longterm-thinking creates cruelty to animals - those would be the human animals, such as the regular German people. They now have to put up with more job losses, even higher taxes, and danger to their children, due to the compassion of women like Commie Angela Merkel, after she saw pictures that made her cry.

    Compassion - Wisdom = Evil is the 2nd formulation having come out of the Peak Stupidity theoretical-stupidity research labs lately.

    Our Stupiditicians, located on our Bombay campus, right behind those green dumpsters near the Taj Jamal, have also come up with the following, which applies most especially to Socialist/Communist totalitarian systems, such as old Red China, and the old USSR:

    Absolute Power + Stupidity = Evil

    Because I'm a generous man, we present these results at no charge to the reader. However, we do take tips (I know, I know, "buy low, sell high").

    They now have to put up with more job losses, even higher taxes, and danger to their children, due to the compassion of women like Commie Angela Merkel, after she saw pictures that made her cry.

    The problem with this argument is that Merkel is a puppet just like the vast majority of all politicians in the Western world. They do as they are told, as you well know.

    Cherry-picking one particularly shitty woman politician to compare with one particularly excellent Male politician is a patently dishonest cheap shot that totally ignores the role of Male greed for cheap labor in bringing on the current demographic disaster.

    The patently absurd claim is that Merkel is more representative of women’s natural immigration preferences than the supermajority of working-class White women who voted for Trump in 2016.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Every survey you or I have ever seen shows women more supportive of open borders than men are. That isn't the largest fault line, but it's always there.
  16. @Achmed E. Newman
    I can't tell, but if that's the case, the point would be that women's general compassion-without-longterm-thinking creates cruelty to animals - those would be the human animals, such as the regular German people. They now have to put up with more job losses, even higher taxes, and danger to their children, due to the compassion of women like Commie Angela Merkel, after she saw pictures that made her cry.

    Compassion - Wisdom = Evil is the 2nd formulation having come out of the Peak Stupidity theoretical-stupidity research labs lately.

    Our Stupiditicians, located on our Bombay campus, right behind those green dumpsters near the Taj Jamal, have also come up with the following, which applies most especially to Socialist/Communist totalitarian systems, such as old Red China, and the old USSR:

    Absolute Power + Stupidity = Evil

    Because I'm a generous man, we present these results at no charge to the reader. However, we do take tips (I know, I know, "buy low, sell high").

    In my observation, most of the extreme animal lovers are so due to nothing more than a mix of virtue signaling and narcissism.

    Example: My wife is a big time animal lover, but she will not declaw our cats, and she she will not hesitate to put a pet down once it is clear the animal has passed beyond any reasonable quality of life. I also hunt and while she refuses to participate, she understands the value and purpose of hunting and will at least try the meat when I bring it home. I like to think that my presence in her life has contributed positively towards her outlook. (True story: two red tail hawks were apparently fighting in mid air yesterday when they both came crashing down onto our deck, and scared the shit out of my wife who was about 15 feet away. She was freaking out, calling me, 311, animal control, the county, trying to figure out what to do because one was lying on its back and looked hurt, as the other stood over it. 15 minutes later she went back to check on them and they were gone. She did get a picture of them though.)

    Now my sister in law, she’s the very bad kind of animal lover. Adopts every stray she runs across. Declaws them. Has had up to 8 cats and dogs living in her 600 sf condo where she is gone most of the day. Hires a dog walker because she is too lazy. Spends 1000’s of dollars on medical care for animals that would be better off put down. (That veterinarians do not give her practical council in these matters speaks to their ethics.) Refuses to put pets down that are clearly in constant discomfort or are so deaf and blind they cannot find their food or the litter box or are continually walking into things. Protests circuses and hunting and supports all the other silly ASPCA related nonsense like “adopting” rescues or endangered reptiles on some island somewhere that she will never see, and tries to get us to do it as well (we don’t.)

    The latter example is a case of pure virtue signaling and narcissism, and the best example is the refusal to put an animal down, because of the guilt and sadness she (meaning my sister in law) will feel about it. Nevermind that the animal is clearly suffering or cannot function normally. It’s about her feelings first.

    Pets and animals trigger that same pathology that social media does in people, but more so in women.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Declaws them.
     
    That's generally frowned on by animal lovers. Breeders often require no-declaw provisions in their adoption contracts. You also need veterinary references, and an adoption can be denied if you have requested declawing without some damned good reason.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    Mike, I really don't think indoor cats get the full "cat experience" in life, so I wouldn't have the option. Relatives that have a bunch of indoor cats have not de-clawed any in a long time - honestly, I could have told them not to do that long ago, but they were not about to listen to me on this.

    We got a new kitten recently, and this one was initially kind of skittish outside. There are big owls around, and I think he knows something. Luckily, they haven't come for him, but, before the cat, I used to see them land in the yard and be pleased, as maybe they could take out some squirrels for me. One landed on a branch, and I got within 10 ft. of him for pictures.

    On the hunting, I wish I did some more of that - it's a matter of time, and the right people to go with. My wife, even though not an animal lover, really liked some wild boar meat we got (the piece was so big, I had to cut it with a bow saw to fit it on the grill). She liked that we had it for health reasons, vs the highly processed store meat.

    I agree with you on putting the animals out of their misery, when life is no longer good for them.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
    November 5th: Celebrate Hug A Chicken Day
    He's her little featherbaby.
    https://www.communitychickens.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/i-q8TKBJw-L-0011.jpg
  17. @MikeatMikedotMike
    In my observation, most of the extreme animal lovers are so due to nothing more than a mix of virtue signaling and narcissism.

    Example: My wife is a big time animal lover, but she will not declaw our cats, and she she will not hesitate to put a pet down once it is clear the animal has passed beyond any reasonable quality of life. I also hunt and while she refuses to participate, she understands the value and purpose of hunting and will at least try the meat when I bring it home. I like to think that my presence in her life has contributed positively towards her outlook. (True story: two red tail hawks were apparently fighting in mid air yesterday when they both came crashing down onto our deck, and scared the shit out of my wife who was about 15 feet away. She was freaking out, calling me, 311, animal control, the county, trying to figure out what to do because one was lying on its back and looked hurt, as the other stood over it. 15 minutes later she went back to check on them and they were gone. She did get a picture of them though.)

    Now my sister in law, she's the very bad kind of animal lover. Adopts every stray she runs across. Declaws them. Has had up to 8 cats and dogs living in her 600 sf condo where she is gone most of the day. Hires a dog walker because she is too lazy. Spends 1000's of dollars on medical care for animals that would be better off put down. (That veterinarians do not give her practical council in these matters speaks to their ethics.) Refuses to put pets down that are clearly in constant discomfort or are so deaf and blind they cannot find their food or the litter box or are continually walking into things. Protests circuses and hunting and supports all the other silly ASPCA related nonsense like "adopting" rescues or endangered reptiles on some island somewhere that she will never see, and tries to get us to do it as well (we don't.)

    The latter example is a case of pure virtue signaling and narcissism, and the best example is the refusal to put an animal down, because of the guilt and sadness she (meaning my sister in law) will feel about it. Nevermind that the animal is clearly suffering or cannot function normally. It's about her feelings first.

    Pets and animals trigger that same pathology that social media does in people, but more so in women.

    Declaws them.

    That’s generally frowned on by animal lovers. Breeders often require no-declaw provisions in their adoption contracts. You also need veterinary references, and an adoption can be denied if you have requested declawing without some damned good reason.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    "That’s generally frowned on by animal lovers."

    Disagree based on my experience.

    "Breeders often require no-declaw provisions in their adoption contracts. "

    Ok, but breeders and stray collectors are different animals, pun intended. PETA euthanizes more strays than it finds homes for, by several orders of magnitude. Anyone of them will tell you they are the biggest lovers of animals in the world.
  18. @MikeatMikedotMike
    In my observation, most of the extreme animal lovers are so due to nothing more than a mix of virtue signaling and narcissism.

    Example: My wife is a big time animal lover, but she will not declaw our cats, and she she will not hesitate to put a pet down once it is clear the animal has passed beyond any reasonable quality of life. I also hunt and while she refuses to participate, she understands the value and purpose of hunting and will at least try the meat when I bring it home. I like to think that my presence in her life has contributed positively towards her outlook. (True story: two red tail hawks were apparently fighting in mid air yesterday when they both came crashing down onto our deck, and scared the shit out of my wife who was about 15 feet away. She was freaking out, calling me, 311, animal control, the county, trying to figure out what to do because one was lying on its back and looked hurt, as the other stood over it. 15 minutes later she went back to check on them and they were gone. She did get a picture of them though.)

    Now my sister in law, she's the very bad kind of animal lover. Adopts every stray she runs across. Declaws them. Has had up to 8 cats and dogs living in her 600 sf condo where she is gone most of the day. Hires a dog walker because she is too lazy. Spends 1000's of dollars on medical care for animals that would be better off put down. (That veterinarians do not give her practical council in these matters speaks to their ethics.) Refuses to put pets down that are clearly in constant discomfort or are so deaf and blind they cannot find their food or the litter box or are continually walking into things. Protests circuses and hunting and supports all the other silly ASPCA related nonsense like "adopting" rescues or endangered reptiles on some island somewhere that she will never see, and tries to get us to do it as well (we don't.)

    The latter example is a case of pure virtue signaling and narcissism, and the best example is the refusal to put an animal down, because of the guilt and sadness she (meaning my sister in law) will feel about it. Nevermind that the animal is clearly suffering or cannot function normally. It's about her feelings first.

    Pets and animals trigger that same pathology that social media does in people, but more so in women.

    Mike, I really don’t think indoor cats get the full “cat experience” in life, so I wouldn’t have the option. Relatives that have a bunch of indoor cats have not de-clawed any in a long time – honestly, I could have told them not to do that long ago, but they were not about to listen to me on this.

    We got a new kitten recently, and this one was initially kind of skittish outside. There are big owls around, and I think he knows something. Luckily, they haven’t come for him, but, before the cat, I used to see them land in the yard and be pleased, as maybe they could take out some squirrels for me. One landed on a branch, and I got within 10 ft. of him for pictures.

    On the hunting, I wish I did some more of that – it’s a matter of time, and the right people to go with. My wife, even though not an animal lover, really liked some wild boar meat we got (the piece was so big, I had to cut it with a bow saw to fit it on the grill). She liked that we had it for health reasons, vs the highly processed store meat.

    I agree with you on putting the animals out of their misery, when life is no longer good for them.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Mike, I really don’t think indoor cats get the full “cat experience” in life, ...
     
    This is retarded. There's a reason they're called domestic cats. They are evolved to provide humans with affection and companionship in exchange for provision and protection, not to fend for themselves in the wild.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    I've been able to get strikingly close to barred owls in the environs recently.
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
    I agree with you about outdoor cats. We live next to a forest preserve with foxes and coyotes and we still let ours go out, because the cat is happier to do so.
  19. @Achmed E. Newman
    Mike, I really don't think indoor cats get the full "cat experience" in life, so I wouldn't have the option. Relatives that have a bunch of indoor cats have not de-clawed any in a long time - honestly, I could have told them not to do that long ago, but they were not about to listen to me on this.

    We got a new kitten recently, and this one was initially kind of skittish outside. There are big owls around, and I think he knows something. Luckily, they haven't come for him, but, before the cat, I used to see them land in the yard and be pleased, as maybe they could take out some squirrels for me. One landed on a branch, and I got within 10 ft. of him for pictures.

    On the hunting, I wish I did some more of that - it's a matter of time, and the right people to go with. My wife, even though not an animal lover, really liked some wild boar meat we got (the piece was so big, I had to cut it with a bow saw to fit it on the grill). She liked that we had it for health reasons, vs the highly processed store meat.

    I agree with you on putting the animals out of their misery, when life is no longer good for them.

    Mike, I really don’t think indoor cats get the full “cat experience” in life, …

    This is retarded. There’s a reason they’re called domestic cats. They are evolved to provide humans with affection and companionship in exchange for provision and protection, not to fend for themselves in the wild.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    No, what now? An "outdoor car" doesn't mean he's got to fend for himself. You've got the food/water for him either on the porch or inside for when you let him in (night in the winter - if he's not a Tom cat), and daytime in the summer. By my definition, an "indoor cat" means he is NEVER let outside. I think those cats get a little nutty, as they really need the space, and lizards and birds to chase to, if I may, fulfill their destinies.
  20. @Rosie

    Mike, I really don’t think indoor cats get the full “cat experience” in life, ...
     
    This is retarded. There's a reason they're called domestic cats. They are evolved to provide humans with affection and companionship in exchange for provision and protection, not to fend for themselves in the wild.

    No, what now? An “outdoor car” doesn’t mean he’s got to fend for himself. You’ve got the food/water for him either on the porch or inside for when you let him in (night in the winter – if he’s not a Tom cat), and daytime in the summer. By my definition, an “indoor cat” means he is NEVER let outside. I think those cats get a little nutty, as they really need the space, and lizards and birds to chase to, if I may, fulfill their destinies.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    No, what now? An “outdoor car” doesn’t mean he’s got to fend for himself.
     
    Right, and they always come back, until one day they don't because a coyote ate them.
  21. @Achmed E. Newman
    No, what now? An "outdoor car" doesn't mean he's got to fend for himself. You've got the food/water for him either on the porch or inside for when you let him in (night in the winter - if he's not a Tom cat), and daytime in the summer. By my definition, an "indoor cat" means he is NEVER let outside. I think those cats get a little nutty, as they really need the space, and lizards and birds to chase to, if I may, fulfill their destinies.

    No, what now? An “outdoor car” doesn’t mean he’s got to fend for himself.

    Right, and they always come back, until one day they don’t because a coyote ate them.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    I don't let my cat, Roy, out because he is actually too stupid to find his way home. He can't tell the difference between my front door and any other front door. If I let him out, my neighbors come over later and say they heard a scratching noise at their front door and then when they opened it my cat ran in. Then I have to go over and get him. I'm glad they know what he looks like. My cat weighs twenty pounds and most people think I have a pet raccoon the first time they see him and get frightened.
  22. @Achmed E. Newman
    I'm not sure what you're getting at with that last sentence, A.E., but then I don't know for sure who the guy on the right is (Victor Orban?).

    If it's about what the percentages would be for people who agreed that anyone should be able to whip Angela Merkel, then you're gonna need to go ahead enlarge that vertical axis right now.

    Ha!

    Yes, it’s Orban. Assuming that whipping horses gets them to run faster and/or more responsively–which I assume it does, or the jockeys wouldn’t do it–it’s a hard decision for a desired result.

  23. @fnn
    That was quick and painless compared to what the dogs go through at the Chinese Dog Meat Festival.

    Thanks for not sharing a link!

  24. @martin2
    How many of those surveyed actually had any experience of horsemanship? Its not the kind of thing one can have an opinion on unless you've been riding. A whip is essential to maintain some control over a horse. The issue is whether it is being used excessively, not whether it should be used at all or whether a rider should even carry one.

    Since most people don’t, the male-female disparity is probably attributable to men tending towards reacting with “if riders have whips, there must be reasons” and women towards “hurting horses is horrible!”

  25. @Rosie

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at with that last sentence, A.E., but then I don’t know for sure who the guy on the right is (Victor Orban?).
     
    He's insinuating that women are traitors because we generally don't approve of cruelty to animals.

    No, no, I’m insinuating the opposite. Didn’t you see where I preemptively labelled anyone who would do exactly that as misogynistic pig?!

    • Replies: @Rosie

    No, no, I’m insinuating the opposite. Didn’t you see where I preemptively labelled anyone who would do exactly that as misogynistic pig?!
     
    Someone will have to spell it out for me. I'm having an off day for reasons having nothing to do with this thread.

    https://themouthymom.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/had-it-up-to-here.jpg
  26. @Rosie

    They now have to put up with more job losses, even higher taxes, and danger to their children, due to the compassion of women like Commie Angela Merkel, after she saw pictures that made her cry.
     
    The problem with this argument is that Merkel is a puppet just like the vast majority of all politicians in the Western world. They do as they are told, as you well know.

    Cherry-picking one particularly shitty woman politician to compare with one particularly excellent Male politician is a patently dishonest cheap shot that totally ignores the role of Male greed for cheap labor in bringing on the current demographic disaster.

    The patently absurd claim is that Merkel is more representative of women's natural immigration preferences than the supermajority of working-class White women who voted for Trump in 2016.

    Every survey you or I have ever seen shows women more supportive of open borders than men are. That isn’t the largest fault line, but it’s always there.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Every survey you or I have ever seen shows women more supportive of open borders than men are. That isn’t the largest fault line, but it’s always there.
     
    https://pics.me.me/before-you-speak-think-is-it-true-h-is-it-6593507.png

    If you notice, whether something is true is only the first step in the think-before-you-speak analysis. Diplomacy 101: It needs to be one of those other things. Otherwise, it's not really relevant.

    In any event, have you seen this one:

    https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/09/28/modern-immigration-wave-brings-59-million-to-u-s-driving-population-growth-and-change-through-2065/ph_2015-09-28_immigration-through-2065-40/

    Maybe the fact that more women than men say immigration is making American society worse has something to do with our greater feelings of White solidarity and lesser greed for cheap labor.

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/WN-Survey.png

  27. @Audacious Epigone
    No, no, I'm insinuating the opposite. Didn't you see where I preemptively labelled anyone who would do exactly that as misogynistic pig?!

    No, no, I’m insinuating the opposite. Didn’t you see where I preemptively labelled anyone who would do exactly that as misogynistic pig?!

    Someone will have to spell it out for me. I’m having an off day for reasons having nothing to do with this thread.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    You were basically correct, though in the post itself I literally--and sarcastically--said the opposite.
  28. @Achmed E. Newman
    Mike, I really don't think indoor cats get the full "cat experience" in life, so I wouldn't have the option. Relatives that have a bunch of indoor cats have not de-clawed any in a long time - honestly, I could have told them not to do that long ago, but they were not about to listen to me on this.

    We got a new kitten recently, and this one was initially kind of skittish outside. There are big owls around, and I think he knows something. Luckily, they haven't come for him, but, before the cat, I used to see them land in the yard and be pleased, as maybe they could take out some squirrels for me. One landed on a branch, and I got within 10 ft. of him for pictures.

    On the hunting, I wish I did some more of that - it's a matter of time, and the right people to go with. My wife, even though not an animal lover, really liked some wild boar meat we got (the piece was so big, I had to cut it with a bow saw to fit it on the grill). She liked that we had it for health reasons, vs the highly processed store meat.

    I agree with you on putting the animals out of their misery, when life is no longer good for them.

    I’ve been able to get strikingly close to barred owls in the environs recently.

  29. @Rosie

    No, no, I’m insinuating the opposite. Didn’t you see where I preemptively labelled anyone who would do exactly that as misogynistic pig?!
     
    Someone will have to spell it out for me. I'm having an off day for reasons having nothing to do with this thread.

    https://themouthymom.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/had-it-up-to-here.jpg

    You were basically correct, though in the post itself I literally–and sarcastically–said the opposite.

  30. @Audacious Epigone
    Every survey you or I have ever seen shows women more supportive of open borders than men are. That isn't the largest fault line, but it's always there.

    Every survey you or I have ever seen shows women more supportive of open borders than men are. That isn’t the largest fault line, but it’s always there.


    If you notice, whether something is true is only the first step in the think-before-you-speak analysis. Diplomacy 101: It needs to be one of those other things. Otherwise, it’s not really relevant.

    In any event, have you seen this one:

    https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/09/28/modern-immigration-wave-brings-59-million-to-u-s-driving-population-growth-and-change-through-2065/ph_2015-09-28_immigration-through-2065-40/

    Maybe the fact that more women than men say immigration is making American society worse has something to do with our greater feelings of White solidarity and lesser greed for cheap labor.

    • Replies: @SFG
    I just think women are more 'groupish' in general, for good and ill. Expected evolutionarily.

    The old, religous, and poor are more pro-white, according to the graph, though the effect is not huge.
  31. O/T

  32. @Rosie

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at with that last sentence, A.E., but then I don’t know for sure who the guy on the right is (Victor Orban?).
     
    He's insinuating that women are traitors because we generally don't approve of cruelty to animals.

    My thoughts were:

    1. AE is trying to have some fun by showing something light and off the wall
    2. AE is fantasizing about Orban whipping Merkel
    3. Mrs. AE better not forget her safeword.

  33. @Rosie

    Every survey you or I have ever seen shows women more supportive of open borders than men are. That isn’t the largest fault line, but it’s always there.
     
    https://pics.me.me/before-you-speak-think-is-it-true-h-is-it-6593507.png

    If you notice, whether something is true is only the first step in the think-before-you-speak analysis. Diplomacy 101: It needs to be one of those other things. Otherwise, it's not really relevant.

    In any event, have you seen this one:

    https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/09/28/modern-immigration-wave-brings-59-million-to-u-s-driving-population-growth-and-change-through-2065/ph_2015-09-28_immigration-through-2065-40/

    Maybe the fact that more women than men say immigration is making American society worse has something to do with our greater feelings of White solidarity and lesser greed for cheap labor.

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/WN-Survey.png

    I just think women are more ‘groupish’ in general, for good and ill. Expected evolutionarily.

    The old, religous, and poor are more pro-white, according to the graph, though the effect is not huge.

  34. @martin2
    How many of those surveyed actually had any experience of horsemanship? Its not the kind of thing one can have an opinion on unless you've been riding. A whip is essential to maintain some control over a horse. The issue is whether it is being used excessively, not whether it should be used at all or whether a rider should even carry one.

    They should run the survey in Kentucky near the end of April.

  35. @iffen
    There is some question as to whether the whip is used as a safety and control measure or is it used to make them run faster. I would definitely be okay in the first instance but would have some reservations in the 2nd. The bigger picture is that horse racing will eventually be banned like dog racing, fox hunting and bull fighting. An even bigger picture is the question of whether it is "okay" for us to breed animals for our use when it is detrimental to the individual animals. For example, turkeys that can't breed, chickens that can't stand, horses with thin fragile leg bones, dogs that can't breathe properly, etc., and we are not even getting into foie gras territory.

    Duplicate.

  36. Whether to use the crop or not, when being applied to a “sport” where very young animals are run hard and people bet millions (billions?) on the outcome.

    Better question is ” Why race those young animals at all?”

    What’s with the fascination with abusing youth, such as Olympic Gymnastics?

    The reasoning behind crops, in non-speed contest horsemanship, is to reinforce a signal the rider is already giving the horse with hands, legs, etc. It is never used as a punishment.

    A time to use a whip (“lunge whip” long handle, long lash) is when lunging a horse, which involves the trainer holding a long lead line to the horse’s halter,the horse circles the trainer, the long reach is necessary to signal the horse to change gaits. Again, not as a punishment.

    However, jockeys being shorter people with shorter legs, with the riding position they assume, short stirrups and ass off the saddle for streamlining, they cannot give a proper leg signal to the young (think of a kindergartner) horse to increase its velocity.

    Doubtful, that a colt or filly would understand a nuanced leg signal while running at full tilt in a pack of horses.

    Horses also have social rankings. Getting a lower ranked horse to aggressively move alongside and past a higher ranked horse requires strong persuasion skills. They are herd animals for survival.

    Absent the crop, the Derby would be different.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Better question is ” Why race those young animals at all?”

    Cuz it is the sport of kings and we's all kangs now?

    Thanks for a very informative comment. I had read that the jockeys were only supposed to use the whip for safety reasons, but I don't think that rule has been rigorously applied.
  37. Maybe non-doxable New Rightists/nationalists should run in D primaries stressing conservation and strict laws on animal cruelty. At the Congressional level add economic nationalism and antiwar. On immigration, you could quote the words of prominent Democrats from a few years ago.

  38. @Rosie

    Declaws them.
     
    That's generally frowned on by animal lovers. Breeders often require no-declaw provisions in their adoption contracts. You also need veterinary references, and an adoption can be denied if you have requested declawing without some damned good reason.

    “That’s generally frowned on by animal lovers.”

    Disagree based on my experience.

    “Breeders often require no-declaw provisions in their adoption contracts. ”

    Ok, but breeders and stray collectors are different animals, pun intended. PETA euthanizes more strays than it finds homes for, by several orders of magnitude. Anyone of them will tell you they are the biggest lovers of animals in the world.

  39. @Achmed E. Newman
    Mike, I really don't think indoor cats get the full "cat experience" in life, so I wouldn't have the option. Relatives that have a bunch of indoor cats have not de-clawed any in a long time - honestly, I could have told them not to do that long ago, but they were not about to listen to me on this.

    We got a new kitten recently, and this one was initially kind of skittish outside. There are big owls around, and I think he knows something. Luckily, they haven't come for him, but, before the cat, I used to see them land in the yard and be pleased, as maybe they could take out some squirrels for me. One landed on a branch, and I got within 10 ft. of him for pictures.

    On the hunting, I wish I did some more of that - it's a matter of time, and the right people to go with. My wife, even though not an animal lover, really liked some wild boar meat we got (the piece was so big, I had to cut it with a bow saw to fit it on the grill). She liked that we had it for health reasons, vs the highly processed store meat.

    I agree with you on putting the animals out of their misery, when life is no longer good for them.

    I agree with you about outdoor cats. We live next to a forest preserve with foxes and coyotes and we still let ours go out, because the cat is happier to do so.

    • Replies: @iffen
    because the cat is happier to do so

    But have you talked to the cat about what constitues "true" happiness?
  40. @Rosie

    No, what now? An “outdoor car” doesn’t mean he’s got to fend for himself.
     
    Right, and they always come back, until one day they don't because a coyote ate them.

    I don’t let my cat, Roy, out because he is actually too stupid to find his way home. He can’t tell the difference between my front door and any other front door. If I let him out, my neighbors come over later and say they heard a scratching noise at their front door and then when they opened it my cat ran in. Then I have to go over and get him. I’m glad they know what he looks like. My cat weighs twenty pounds and most people think I have a pet raccoon the first time they see him and get frightened.

  41. @MikeatMikedotMike
    I agree with you about outdoor cats. We live next to a forest preserve with foxes and coyotes and we still let ours go out, because the cat is happier to do so.

    because the cat is happier to do so

    But have you talked to the cat about what constitues “true” happiness?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    But have you talked to the cat about what constitues “true” happiness?
     
    Of all the cats I've been privileged to call friends in my life, some have been show-quality purebreds and some have been hard-luck moggies I adopted out of my trash can. The latter are not remotely interested in any further adventures (they make you late for supper) and will often run away from the door when opened.
    , @dfordoom


    because the cat is happier to do so
     
    But have you talked to the cat about what constitues “true” happiness?
     
    You could ask the cat if his views have changed after he's been torn apart by coyotes or wild dogs.
  42. @iffen
    because the cat is happier to do so

    But have you talked to the cat about what constitues "true" happiness?

    But have you talked to the cat about what constitues “true” happiness?

    Of all the cats I’ve been privileged to call friends in my life, some have been show-quality purebreds and some have been hard-luck moggies I adopted out of my trash can. The latter are not remotely interested in any further adventures (they make you late for supper) and will often run away from the door when opened.

  43. @iffen
    because the cat is happier to do so

    But have you talked to the cat about what constitues "true" happiness?

    because the cat is happier to do so

    But have you talked to the cat about what constitues “true” happiness?

    You could ask the cat if his views have changed after he’s been torn apart by coyotes or wild dogs.

    • Replies: @iffen
    I have had cats all my life and all of mine have been hard core Darwinists so only the weasel ones would change their minds.
  44. @SaneClownPosse
    Whether to use the crop or not, when being applied to a "sport" where very young animals are run hard and people bet millions (billions?) on the outcome.

    Better question is " Why race those young animals at all?"

    What's with the fascination with abusing youth, such as Olympic Gymnastics?

    The reasoning behind crops, in non-speed contest horsemanship, is to reinforce a signal the rider is already giving the horse with hands, legs, etc. It is never used as a punishment.

    A time to use a whip ("lunge whip" long handle, long lash) is when lunging a horse, which involves the trainer holding a long lead line to the horse's halter,the horse circles the trainer, the long reach is necessary to signal the horse to change gaits. Again, not as a punishment.

    However, jockeys being shorter people with shorter legs, with the riding position they assume, short stirrups and ass off the saddle for streamlining, they cannot give a proper leg signal to the young (think of a kindergartner) horse to increase its velocity.

    Doubtful, that a colt or filly would understand a nuanced leg signal while running at full tilt in a pack of horses.

    Horses also have social rankings. Getting a lower ranked horse to aggressively move alongside and past a higher ranked horse requires strong persuasion skills. They are herd animals for survival.

    Absent the crop, the Derby would be different.

    Better question is ” Why race those young animals at all?”

    Cuz it is the sport of kings and we’s all kangs now?

    Thanks for a very informative comment. I had read that the jockeys were only supposed to use the whip for safety reasons, but I don’t think that rule has been rigorously applied.

  45. @dfordoom


    because the cat is happier to do so
     
    But have you talked to the cat about what constitues “true” happiness?
     
    You could ask the cat if his views have changed after he's been torn apart by coyotes or wild dogs.

    I have had cats all my life and all of mine have been hard core Darwinists so only the weasel ones would change their minds.

  46. @MikeatMikedotMike
    In my observation, most of the extreme animal lovers are so due to nothing more than a mix of virtue signaling and narcissism.

    Example: My wife is a big time animal lover, but she will not declaw our cats, and she she will not hesitate to put a pet down once it is clear the animal has passed beyond any reasonable quality of life. I also hunt and while she refuses to participate, she understands the value and purpose of hunting and will at least try the meat when I bring it home. I like to think that my presence in her life has contributed positively towards her outlook. (True story: two red tail hawks were apparently fighting in mid air yesterday when they both came crashing down onto our deck, and scared the shit out of my wife who was about 15 feet away. She was freaking out, calling me, 311, animal control, the county, trying to figure out what to do because one was lying on its back and looked hurt, as the other stood over it. 15 minutes later she went back to check on them and they were gone. She did get a picture of them though.)

    Now my sister in law, she's the very bad kind of animal lover. Adopts every stray she runs across. Declaws them. Has had up to 8 cats and dogs living in her 600 sf condo where she is gone most of the day. Hires a dog walker because she is too lazy. Spends 1000's of dollars on medical care for animals that would be better off put down. (That veterinarians do not give her practical council in these matters speaks to their ethics.) Refuses to put pets down that are clearly in constant discomfort or are so deaf and blind they cannot find their food or the litter box or are continually walking into things. Protests circuses and hunting and supports all the other silly ASPCA related nonsense like "adopting" rescues or endangered reptiles on some island somewhere that she will never see, and tries to get us to do it as well (we don't.)

    The latter example is a case of pure virtue signaling and narcissism, and the best example is the refusal to put an animal down, because of the guilt and sadness she (meaning my sister in law) will feel about it. Nevermind that the animal is clearly suffering or cannot function normally. It's about her feelings first.

    Pets and animals trigger that same pathology that social media does in people, but more so in women.

    November 5th: Celebrate Hug A Chicken Day
    He’s her little featherbaby.

  47. @Anonymous
    To put it another way, audacious, let's say you have two white newborn babies: identical twins. You let the biological parents keep one twin (let's say they are UMC SWPLs who both have master's degrees and six figure paychecks). He grows up in a leafy suburb and attends an elite private school. He never knows poverty, tropical diseases, or violence.

    You let the other twin get adopted by a subsistence farmer couple in Africa. He never learns to speak English; instead his first and only language is some African tribal lingo. He survives tropical diseases, but at great cost to his neurological and physical devleopment. He endures periods of famine and war.

    So according to you "race realists" and "HBD" proponents, these two guys will turn out exactly the same as adults, because you believe in genes and race uber alles. You guys are just as far from the truth as the liberals.

    That’s a strawman. No one argues that. HBD realists understand that nurture isn’t everything.

    In your example, the twins won’t be exactly the same, but neither will the twin adopted in Africa be the same as his brothers and sisters in his adopted subsistence farmer family.

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