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Relevant contextual backstory:

A Virginia high school teacher who was fired for refusing to use a transgender student’s preferred pronouns has filed a lawsuit against school officials and the board.

Peter Vlaming, who was a French teacher at West Point High School, said he was fired because he would not use pronouns such as “him” and “his” to refer to a female student who was transitioning to male.

According to the suit filed Monday in King William County, using the male pronouns would have “violated” Vlaming’s “conscience” and went against his religious beliefs, so he called the student by his preferred name during class and avoided using pronouns altogether.

When the school found out, administrators told Vlaming to either use male pronouns or risk losing his job.

One workable compromise: Exclusively use the student’s name. Instead of “he/she did this”, say “Rex did this”. Proper nouns are only informally gendered in English, and they are potentially in flux at any given time (unless the name derives from an ancient religious text–biblical names tend not to shift informal gender).

I suppose it sounds naive to assume compromise is what anyone is after, though.

Anyway, YouGov recently polled respondents on whether or not they approved of the teacher’s firing. The following graph shows the percentages who do approve, with “not sure” responses, constituting 23% of the total, excluded. The residuals thus represent percentages who disapprove of his termination:

Most people disapprove, including a sizable minority of Democrats. Though the poll does not break down responses by both race and partisan affiliation, it can be deduced that white Democrats are more likely to favor the firing than non-white Democrats are. The Great Awokening is causing a cold civil war between two groups of whites who don’t agree on anything, with moderate non-whites stuck in the middle between them.

 
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  1. OT but I notice there’s surprisingly little commentary on the second Bank of the US (and, of course, its fall) on this website, considering that it’s right up the alley of a number of people’s concerns. Then, also, one side largely controlled the media (and not infrequently wished the leader of the opposite party dead in print), but the other side won out.

    Of course, the BUS was not reaching out into regular people’s home life in this manner.

    Still, this Chesterton quote about Jackson may yet be relevant: he must have known, as by a lightning flash, that the people were behind him, because all the politicians were against him.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    Global Politics Distilled:

    Debt and Demography

    Monetary Policy and Mass Immigration

    Disregard the Austrian School and the Libertarians -- although they are good on monetary policy -- Andrew Jackson killing the plutocrat central bank of his day and telling the money-grubbing Mammonite bankers and plutocrats in Boston, New York and Philadelphia to go to Hell is the inspiration for White Core America.

    Negative interest rates?

    Asset Purchases(Quantitative Easing)?

    Conjuring up currency out of thin air to buy government bonds and corporate bonds and stocks?

    Dollar swaps?

    Zero Interest Rate Policy for almost a decade?

    2.40 percent as the new normal high for the federal funds rate?

    Trillion dollar USA federal budget deficit made possible by monetary extremism -- low or zero percent interest rates?

    Raise the federal funds rate to 20 percent and pop the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate!

    This Viking guy is a moralizing politically correct prima donna bastard, but he's right about the asset bubbles caused by central bank monetary policy intervention:

    https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/1185140724469321729
  2. I highly doubt these YouGov polls. 36% say the teacher should be fired? Including 35% of Hispanics and 18% of Republicans? No way.

    Most people don’t even know what the pronouns are, and certainly could not meet this standard themselves in the workplace. Hence, I highly doubt 36% take this position.

    • Replies: @Sailhead
    The pronouns were "him" and "his".
  3. Most people don’t even know what the pronouns are

    Often former amateurnouns who are now doing the job for money.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  4. There are 2 questions at issue here, the teacher’s free speech, and the real stupidity regarding which pronouns should be used. I’m not sure this poll separates these two out.

    It does, however, prove that the ctrl-left is much more radical than the right these days. Think about this: even if those “approve” responses are from people who really think that woman who recently got that 20% co-pay adedictome should be referred to as “he”, why do they think the teacher should have been fired?

    If you put the shoe on the other foot and imagine a religious school that didn’t teach the BLT-G* nonsense, with a teacher who IS using the BTLG-correct pronouns, what would you expect to happen? I doubt the guy would get fired – he’d probably just be called weird by students and teachers alike, and the less talked about it, the better.

    The left is hard-core. They will not be stopped with appeals for calm and resorting to logic.

    .

    * Bacon, Lettuce, and Tomato, with a side of Guacamole?

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1481/7678/products/lgbt-apparel-hoodie-black-s-4922814136371_600x.jpg?v=1569830474

    https://www.printedkicks.com/products/lgbt?variant=16084174864435&currency=USD&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google+shopping&gc_id=6737172232&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4abmke-m5QIVlKDsCh1l5we6EAQYASABEgJTQvD_BwE
    , @Audacious Epigone
    There is a "customer service" aspect to this situation, though, that should at least be given consideration. The students are customers and the teachers are providing services to those customers. In our current consumerist milieu, the meta-expectation is that the service provider defer to customer desires. If I answered in support of the firing--which I would not do, as explained previously--I think this is how I'd justify that response.
  5. a cold civil war between two groups of whites who don’t agree on anything

    There appears to be an age component to this ideological civil war.

    • Replies: @neutral

    There appears to be an age component to this ideological civil war.
     
    The age component increasingly is being influenced by racial demographics. Younger implies being more non white.
  6. @Twinkie

    a cold civil war between two groups of whites who don’t agree on anything
     
    There appears to be an age component to this ideological civil war.

    There appears to be an age component to this ideological civil war.

    The age component increasingly is being influenced by racial demographics. Younger implies being more non white.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    So, half of young blacks wanted the teacher fired over this?

    I admit--I stay _very_ far away from young black people, but I find this a bit strange.

    I trust pollsters even less than young black people. ;-)
  7. >Though the poll does not break down responses by both race and partisan affiliation, it can be deduced that white Democrats are more likely to favor the firing than non-white Democrats are.

    How the heck can that be deduced when 1) of the four racial groups whites had the lowest approval rates 2) the young had the highest approval rates, and while I have no data at hand I think whites are a relatively aging demographic due to lower reproduction and lower white immigration, so young people more likely to be non-white?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    By partisan affiliation. That Democrats are considerably more likely to approve than non-whites in general means that white Democrats are driving that overall Democrat figure up.
  8. Keep getting told by Conservatism Inc about how socially conservative blacks are. Never seems to get born out by these polls.

    • Replies: @216
    You're confusing the tropes.

    The black trope is about "leaving the Dem plantation" and "Dems are the real racists". It's unimaginably patronizing, assuming that blacks aren't rational adults.

    The "natural conservative" trope is usually applied to Hispanics, as to blame immigration restrictionists for Hispanics voting Dem. Some legacy Blue Dog Hispanic Dem Congressmen made hay off this, but these days only one Henry Cuellar of Texas remains.

    "Natural conservative" also hedges towards (Asian) immigrants, but most of them aren't Christian, so it isn't the traditional values of our civilization they are conserving. It mostly applies to their stronger nuclear and extended families, but again this only indicates "personal conservatism".
    , @Audacious Epigone
    The only social issue it holds on is same-sex marriage, which is one conservatives in general have surrendered on anyway.
  9. @neutral

    There appears to be an age component to this ideological civil war.
     
    The age component increasingly is being influenced by racial demographics. Younger implies being more non white.

    So, half of young blacks wanted the teacher fired over this?

    I admit–I stay _very_ far away from young black people, but I find this a bit strange.

    I trust pollsters even less than young black people. 😉

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    Blacks have a troubled relationship with schools and education. They blame teachers for their cognitive shortcomings. And racism.
  10. There’s one huge factor missing in all these polls – class. A breakdown by class might be very revealing. I’d suspect that among whites Wokeness is very much a class marker. It’s a way of proving your middle-class credentials.

    I don’t deny that there are racial, ethnic and ideological divides but class hatred today is more bitter and more vicious that ever before. And Wokeness is a weapon used in class war.

    • Replies: @Not My Economy
    >class hatred today is more bitter and more vicious that ever before

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.

    You have tiny numbers of DSA types, 98k per year Financial Analysts in the cities retweeting millionaires saying "every billionaire is a policy failure" but thats about it. This type of eat the rich messaging would utterly disappear without continuous support from rich people.

    Tucker Carlson and the online right are getting it started and while we plus Tucker's audience dwarf the DSA in numbers, we don't have megaphones and our absolute numbers are still tiny in the general population.

    Normies mostly seem to think "good for them for getting rich, wish I could be rich too"

  11. Anything about 40% needs to be culled for entitlement and believing one is so pure that xe will not be room-101d ever for refusing to BELIEVE.

  12. If using a persons actual name is somehow against the rules and referring to people using the common gender pronouns that match their sex is also off limits, then the only truthful term to be applied to these transgender individuals is freak.

    If the society started referring to these creatures as freaks or some other pejorative term then maybe they’d retreat into their obvious mental fantasy land and leave the rest of us alone. Giving in to what is obviously a false claim will only embolden the rest of the mental cases in the society to demand that their mental instabilities be declared ‘normal’ when they are not. The society must resist having the lunatics determine how the whole of society should function.

    And, BTW, piss on their feelings.

  13. “One workable compromise:”

    This reads as “The conservative case for…”

    Nah. Compromise in general is what has led us to this current predicament. Worrisome that this isn’t painfully obvious yet.

    The student is a female. Period. The teacher should be standing on biological reality, not hiding behind “religious beliefs”.

    • Agree: Twinkie, Anonymousse
    • Replies: @res

    The teacher should be standing on biological reality, not hiding behind “religious beliefs”.
     
    Perhaps, but I think the latter at least gives the teacher a fighting chance in the courts. The former, not so much.
  14. I suppose it sounds naive to assume compromise is what anyone is after, though.

    The JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire and its government worker school industrial complex doesn’t want compromise. They want to crush their White Core American enemies like bugs.

    They are taunting us by using their control of the corporate propaganda apparatus to tell us to eat bugs, by the way.

    Jurisdictional Dissolutions and Debt Repudiations and Government Debt Secessionism and Jurisdictional Secessionism is the way to go for proud, patriotic happy warriors in WHITE CORE AMERICA. Sovereign Debt Secessionism and Ruling Class Removal are the names of the game for White Core America.

    White Core America must honor the great spirit of General Andrew Jackson by patriotically taking over the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank. White Core America must make sure that all school industrial government debt is made null and void. Capital Appreciation Bonds must be shown the appreciation they deserve by making the owners of those Mammonite fraudulent bonds eat them with salt and pepper.

    All student loan debt must be immediately extinguished and every penny ever paid for student loans — private and public — must be repaid to the borrowers with 6 percent a year in opportunity cost factors to be added to the total amount ever paid.

    The plutocrats and corporations and the upper middle class — the top 90 percent of Americans — must be taxed so hard their pips start squeaking.

    A White Core American militia — with nuclear weapons and electronic war fighting capability — must be ready to defeat any counter-attack the money-grubbers and globalizers and Mammonites and government worker aristocracy might offer.

    The military and the school industrial construction complex are jobs programs and money pots for no integrity cowards who go along to get along. There are plenty of upper middle class White money-grubbers who made out like bandits from all the student loan debt bomb money that has been pouring into colleges and universities — both public and private.

    And yes, I have been deliberately blunt and provocative to get people to focus on debt and demography and student loans and central banking.

    You people do realize that the plutocrats who control the Federal Reserve Bank immediately re-inflated the real estate bubble to make sure that the property taxes would be there from the bloated real estate asset bubble to pay for all the government workers reliant on the real estate property tax for salaries, benefits and pensions?

    White Core America will wipe out the debts hindering young White Americans from enjoying AFFORDABLE FAMILY FORMATION.

    • Agree: RoatanBill
  15. @Thomm
    I highly doubt these YouGov polls. 36% say the teacher should be fired? Including 35% of Hispanics and 18% of Republicans? No way.

    Most people don't even know what the pronouns are, and certainly could not meet this standard themselves in the workplace. Hence, I highly doubt 36% take this position.

    The pronouns were “him” and “his”.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    I think they were expecting accurate and proactive use of 'xe' and 'xir' and other such weirdness.
  16. @RSDB
    OT but I notice there's surprisingly little commentary on the second Bank of the US (and, of course, its fall) on this website, considering that it's right up the alley of a number of people's concerns. Then, also, one side largely controlled the media (and not infrequently wished the leader of the opposite party dead in print), but the other side won out.

    Of course, the BUS was not reaching out into regular people's home life in this manner.

    Still, this Chesterton quote about Jackson may yet be relevant: he must have known, as by a lightning flash, that the people were behind him, because all the politicians were against him.

    Global Politics Distilled:

    Debt and Demography

    Monetary Policy and Mass Immigration

    Disregard the Austrian School and the Libertarians — although they are good on monetary policy — Andrew Jackson killing the plutocrat central bank of his day and telling the money-grubbing Mammonite bankers and plutocrats in Boston, New York and Philadelphia to go to Hell is the inspiration for White Core America.

    Negative interest rates?

    Asset Purchases(Quantitative Easing)?

    Conjuring up currency out of thin air to buy government bonds and corporate bonds and stocks?

    Dollar swaps?

    Zero Interest Rate Policy for almost a decade?

    2.40 percent as the new normal high for the federal funds rate?

    Trillion dollar USA federal budget deficit made possible by monetary extremism — low or zero percent interest rates?

    Raise the federal funds rate to 20 percent and pop the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate!

    This Viking guy is a moralizing politically correct prima donna bastard, but he’s right about the asset bubbles caused by central bank monetary policy intervention:

  17. A reminder to all of us never to post anything controversial under our real names.

    https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article236355618.html

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @SafeNow
    “never post anything controversial under our real names”

    Further, even when commenting anonymously, consider reducing the use of logic, nuance, detachment, wit, and literacy, lest some calumniating moderator ban the comment.
  18. “One workable compromise: Exclusively use the student’s name. Instead of “he/she did this”, say “Rex did this”.

    This year when I was informed a student had this expectation. My first thought was goodness gracious grief with a laugh. I volunteer so in my view, this is not my problem. But the way to address it is merely use the student’s name. As noted in the above comment.

    Issue done . . . now if said student wants to legal change their name to he, it, they, she, whomever, what, when , where and how . . .

    Good for this french instructor for standing up to nonsense.

  19. @snorlax
    A reminder to all of us never to post anything controversial under our real names.

    https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article236355618.html

    “never post anything controversial under our real names”

    Further, even when commenting anonymously, consider reducing the use of logic, nuance, detachment, wit, and literacy, lest some calumniating moderator ban the comment.

  20. 1. The concept of the “religious beliefs” “exemption” was a masterstroke by the ruling class
    2. Strongly doubt that most people understood the polling question

  21. How about “thingy” .? That might have worked 🙂

    Regards,onebornfree

  22. @dfordoom
    There's one huge factor missing in all these polls - class. A breakdown by class might be very revealing. I'd suspect that among whites Wokeness is very much a class marker. It's a way of proving your middle-class credentials.

    I don't deny that there are racial, ethnic and ideological divides but class hatred today is more bitter and more vicious that ever before. And Wokeness is a weapon used in class war.

    >class hatred today is more bitter and more vicious that ever before

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.

    You have tiny numbers of DSA types, 98k per year Financial Analysts in the cities retweeting millionaires saying “every billionaire is a policy failure” but thats about it. This type of eat the rich messaging would utterly disappear without continuous support from rich people.

    Tucker Carlson and the online right are getting it started and while we plus Tucker’s audience dwarf the DSA in numbers, we don’t have megaphones and our absolute numbers are still tiny in the general population.

    Normies mostly seem to think “good for them for getting rich, wish I could be rich too”

    • Replies: @Rosie

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.
     
    It's all being redirected based on race and sex. Old-fashioned leftists aren't wrong when they say so.
    , @Twinkie

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.
     
    Class markers and affluence intersect, but do not coincide perfectly. The adjunct professor yelling “We need some muscle here!” is not likely rich, but probably hates the right far more than your average “rich” people.

    Material explanations are often useful, but never sufficient, because, as greedy as we are, people are pack animals first.
    , @Anonymousse
    Rich people are acceptable when they broadly identify with the population of the country they inhabit... good thing too since they’re logically and practically ineradicable. Every society is an oligarchy at heart.

    Our problem is a hostile and foreign elite that actively despises the country it’s running. We need BETTER oligarchs.
    , @216
    The average person would be content with the tax loopholes being eliminated and a steady current of a few prominent people every year getting prison time for white-collar crime. (Note the popularity of CNBC's American Greed)

    Trump made a major error by not listening to Steve Bannon and raising the top bracket to 44% to pay for additional middle class cuts. Instead he listened to neocon Paul Singer and the WSJ, and cut the top rate from 39.6% to 37%, which is still higher than Bush's 35% and Reagan's 25%.

    It's mostly ethereal to the average person, but most people wouldn't object to a 75% or higher tax rate on the rich. Depends of course on what "rich" is.

    ---

    Millennials also suck at IRL organizing, which is why labor unions haven't bounced back despite an increasingly pro-union public. Each cohort being successively less white is also relevant, low trust makes it harder to organize unions.
  23. @Not My Economy
    >class hatred today is more bitter and more vicious that ever before

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.

    You have tiny numbers of DSA types, 98k per year Financial Analysts in the cities retweeting millionaires saying "every billionaire is a policy failure" but thats about it. This type of eat the rich messaging would utterly disappear without continuous support from rich people.

    Tucker Carlson and the online right are getting it started and while we plus Tucker's audience dwarf the DSA in numbers, we don't have megaphones and our absolute numbers are still tiny in the general population.

    Normies mostly seem to think "good for them for getting rich, wish I could be rich too"

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.

    It’s all being redirected based on race and sex. Old-fashioned leftists aren’t wrong when they say so.

    • Replies: @dfordoom


    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.
     
    It’s all being redirected based on race and sex. Old-fashioned leftists aren’t wrong when they say so.
     
    Yes. I think there is a fair bit of anger on the part of those targeted by the rich but it's disorganised and confused. And as you say, it's being directed against the wrong targets.

    This is why I have so little respect for the alt-right/dissident right. They're actually serving the ends of the ruling class. They're doing exactly what the ruling class wants. As long as they're blaming everything on women, or blaming everything on men, or blaming everything on blacks or Jews or Freemasons or the Chinese or the commies - as long as they do this the ruling class is delighted.
  24. @Justvisiting
    So, half of young blacks wanted the teacher fired over this?

    I admit--I stay _very_ far away from young black people, but I find this a bit strange.

    I trust pollsters even less than young black people. ;-)

    Blacks have a troubled relationship with schools and education. They blame teachers for their cognitive shortcomings. And racism.

    • Replies: @216
    Blacks are rather mad that they have been forced into an education system that is nominally reliant on white standards.

    -Standardized testing means no more social promotion, and no devalued diplomas
    -Punctuality is not exactly something blacks are known for
    -Teaching credentials are awarded by passing exams, which limits the extent of A/A
    -Whites have eliminated corporal punishment (out of the South), and imported school resource officers
    -Textbooks are created by largely white bureaucracies at the state-level

    I suspect that a surprisingly large number of black parents would be favorable to single-sex education, which is unthinkable in the public schools. While charter schools are condemned by the left for their ability to expel problematic students to the public schools, I suspect again that there are black parents (of the other students) that like this.

    Blacks particularly hate the idea of vocational tracked education, seeing it as a white conspiracy to keep them in menial jobs. Even when you tell them that this is the way Germany does it, the needle doesn't move. Blacks tend to idealize France, to the extent that typical left-wing euro-envy is present.
  25. @Not My Economy
    >class hatred today is more bitter and more vicious that ever before

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.

    You have tiny numbers of DSA types, 98k per year Financial Analysts in the cities retweeting millionaires saying "every billionaire is a policy failure" but thats about it. This type of eat the rich messaging would utterly disappear without continuous support from rich people.

    Tucker Carlson and the online right are getting it started and while we plus Tucker's audience dwarf the DSA in numbers, we don't have megaphones and our absolute numbers are still tiny in the general population.

    Normies mostly seem to think "good for them for getting rich, wish I could be rich too"

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.

    Class markers and affluence intersect, but do not coincide perfectly. The adjunct professor yelling “We need some muscle here!” is not likely rich, but probably hates the right far more than your average “rich” people.

    Material explanations are often useful, but never sufficient, because, as greedy as we are, people are pack animals first.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Anonymousse
    Class is not synonymous with net worth/income though. Correlated but separate.

    An adjunct professor is a member of a higher class than a plumber regardless of their respective incomes. This would be pervasively apparent in their personal habits, speech patterns, interests, and social interactions.

    Only an adjuct think this makes him BETTER than a plumber though.
    , @Not My Economy
    1. Class is defined on multiple axis.

    2. I disagree that material explanation is insufficient. The pie is in fact shrinking. That is the 1 sentence summary of why everything is the way it is. Radleft would have zero traction if everybody were rich and confident. Capital is grinding labor into the dirt, while simultaneously pumping Woke to get the upper paid tiers of labor to direct their anger about being ground into the dirt downward instead of upward.

    , @dfordoom


    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.
     
    Class markers and affluence intersect, but do not coincide perfectly.
     
    True.

    And class is more complicated than rich/poor or middle class/working class, and always has been. The petite bourgeoisie are not the same as the haute bourgeoisie. The proletariat and the lumpenproletariat are not the same. And then there's the problem of the intellectual class (like the adjunct professor in your example). And even among the upper reaches of the bourgeoisie there's the old ownership class and the newer managerial class.

    What's odd about our current situation is that the intellectual class has thrown in its lot with the ruling class. They're aiming their intellectual guns at the poor rather than the rich. Back in the 1930s it was much more common for intellectuals to hate the bourgeoisie. Now they hate the proletariat.

    I apologise for using Marxist terminology (I know it will trigger some people here) but sometimes Marxist terminology is extremely useful.
  26. @MikeatMikedotMike

    "One workable compromise:"
     
    This reads as "The conservative case for..."

    Nah. Compromise in general is what has led us to this current predicament. Worrisome that this isn't painfully obvious yet.

    The student is a female. Period. The teacher should be standing on biological reality, not hiding behind "religious beliefs".

    The teacher should be standing on biological reality, not hiding behind “religious beliefs”.

    Perhaps, but I think the latter at least gives the teacher a fighting chance in the courts. The former, not so much.

  27. @Not My Economy
    >class hatred today is more bitter and more vicious that ever before

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.

    You have tiny numbers of DSA types, 98k per year Financial Analysts in the cities retweeting millionaires saying "every billionaire is a policy failure" but thats about it. This type of eat the rich messaging would utterly disappear without continuous support from rich people.

    Tucker Carlson and the online right are getting it started and while we plus Tucker's audience dwarf the DSA in numbers, we don't have megaphones and our absolute numbers are still tiny in the general population.

    Normies mostly seem to think "good for them for getting rich, wish I could be rich too"

    Rich people are acceptable when they broadly identify with the population of the country they inhabit… good thing too since they’re logically and practically ineradicable. Every society is an oligarchy at heart.

    Our problem is a hostile and foreign elite that actively despises the country it’s running. We need BETTER oligarchs.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Rich people are acceptable when they broadly identify with the population of the country they inhabit…
     
    So when have they ever done that?

    The rich have always had a definite class consciousness. The rich at one time did have some vague nationalist consciousness but for rich people class identification always trumped national identification.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    This is Tucker Carlson's meta-message.
  28. @Twinkie

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.
     
    Class markers and affluence intersect, but do not coincide perfectly. The adjunct professor yelling “We need some muscle here!” is not likely rich, but probably hates the right far more than your average “rich” people.

    Material explanations are often useful, but never sufficient, because, as greedy as we are, people are pack animals first.

    Class is not synonymous with net worth/income though. Correlated but separate.

    An adjunct professor is a member of a higher class than a plumber regardless of their respective incomes. This would be pervasively apparent in their personal habits, speech patterns, interests, and social interactions.

    Only an adjuct think this makes him BETTER than a plumber though.

    • Replies: @RSDB
    "Some of my best friends are adjunct professors".

    Adjuncts are probably one of the more angry (I was going to use a hyphenated word starting with "p" and ending with "off") groups in the nation. This makes them good foot soldiers for insane ideas, and some of them are a little close to nuts themselves.

    Does an advanced degree convey higher class status? I would, personally, generally think it does, at least around here on the eastern seaboard, but not unfailingly so. That is, there are people without advanced degrees who are socially superior to some people with such degrees. On the other hand, to people with the advanced degree and not much else, that sheepskin is incredibly important.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Indeed. The higher the class relative to income (as in the case of the adjunct professor), the more anti-Trump. The higher the income relative to the class (as in the master plumber), the more pro-Trump. Just looking at income or even just educational attainment only takes you so far.
  29. @Anonymousse
    Class is not synonymous with net worth/income though. Correlated but separate.

    An adjunct professor is a member of a higher class than a plumber regardless of their respective incomes. This would be pervasively apparent in their personal habits, speech patterns, interests, and social interactions.

    Only an adjuct think this makes him BETTER than a plumber though.

    “Some of my best friends are adjunct professors”.

    Adjuncts are probably one of the more angry (I was going to use a hyphenated word starting with “p” and ending with “off”) groups in the nation. This makes them good foot soldiers for insane ideas, and some of them are a little close to nuts themselves.

    Does an advanced degree convey higher class status? I would, personally, generally think it does, at least around here on the eastern seaboard, but not unfailingly so. That is, there are people without advanced degrees who are socially superior to some people with such degrees. On the other hand, to people with the advanced degree and not much else, that sheepskin is incredibly important.

  30. @Achmed E. Newman
    There are 2 questions at issue here, the teacher's free speech, and the real stupidity regarding which pronouns should be used. I'm not sure this poll separates these two out.

    It does, however, prove that the ctrl-left is much more radical than the right these days. Think about this: even if those "approve" responses are from people who really think that woman who recently got that 20% co-pay adedictome should be referred to as "he", why do they think the teacher should have been fired?

    If you put the shoe on the other foot and imagine a religious school that didn't teach the BLT-G* nonsense, with a teacher who IS using the BTLG-correct pronouns, what would you expect to happen? I doubt the guy would get fired - he'd probably just be called weird by students and teachers alike, and the less talked about it, the better.

    The left is hard-core. They will not be stopped with appeals for calm and resorting to logic.

    .

    * Bacon, Lettuce, and Tomato, with a side of Guacamole?
  31. @Peter F
    Keep getting told by Conservatism Inc about how socially conservative blacks are. Never seems to get born out by these polls.

    You’re confusing the tropes.

    The black trope is about “leaving the Dem plantation” and “Dems are the real racists”. It’s unimaginably patronizing, assuming that blacks aren’t rational adults.

    The “natural conservative” trope is usually applied to Hispanics, as to blame immigration restrictionists for Hispanics voting Dem. Some legacy Blue Dog Hispanic Dem Congressmen made hay off this, but these days only one Henry Cuellar of Texas remains.

    “Natural conservative” also hedges towards (Asian) immigrants, but most of them aren’t Christian, so it isn’t the traditional values of our civilization they are conserving. It mostly applies to their stronger nuclear and extended families, but again this only indicates “personal conservatism”.

  32. @SunBakedSuburb
    Blacks have a troubled relationship with schools and education. They blame teachers for their cognitive shortcomings. And racism.

    Blacks are rather mad that they have been forced into an education system that is nominally reliant on white standards.

    -Standardized testing means no more social promotion, and no devalued diplomas
    -Punctuality is not exactly something blacks are known for
    -Teaching credentials are awarded by passing exams, which limits the extent of A/A
    -Whites have eliminated corporal punishment (out of the South), and imported school resource officers
    -Textbooks are created by largely white bureaucracies at the state-level

    I suspect that a surprisingly large number of black parents would be favorable to single-sex education, which is unthinkable in the public schools. While charter schools are condemned by the left for their ability to expel problematic students to the public schools, I suspect again that there are black parents (of the other students) that like this.

    Blacks particularly hate the idea of vocational tracked education, seeing it as a white conspiracy to keep them in menial jobs. Even when you tell them that this is the way Germany does it, the needle doesn’t move. Blacks tend to idealize France, to the extent that typical left-wing euro-envy is present.

    • Replies: @Anonymousse
    Sex segregated black public/charter schools do exist! Founded back in 2007 it seems like this grew out of a big educational fad around that time.

    https://www.kipphouston.org/polaris
    https://kipphouston.org/voyage

    Funny enough the boys school seems to have a curriculum based around a mix of Frederick Douglass and Kwanzaa candles.

    Seems pretty fascist though. Presumably they’ll now need 57 different schools for every current gender, and many kids will transfer enrollment between every school at will.
  33. @Not My Economy
    >class hatred today is more bitter and more vicious that ever before

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.

    You have tiny numbers of DSA types, 98k per year Financial Analysts in the cities retweeting millionaires saying "every billionaire is a policy failure" but thats about it. This type of eat the rich messaging would utterly disappear without continuous support from rich people.

    Tucker Carlson and the online right are getting it started and while we plus Tucker's audience dwarf the DSA in numbers, we don't have megaphones and our absolute numbers are still tiny in the general population.

    Normies mostly seem to think "good for them for getting rich, wish I could be rich too"

    The average person would be content with the tax loopholes being eliminated and a steady current of a few prominent people every year getting prison time for white-collar crime. (Note the popularity of CNBC’s American Greed)

    Trump made a major error by not listening to Steve Bannon and raising the top bracket to 44% to pay for additional middle class cuts. Instead he listened to neocon Paul Singer and the WSJ, and cut the top rate from 39.6% to 37%, which is still higher than Bush’s 35% and Reagan’s 25%.

    It’s mostly ethereal to the average person, but most people wouldn’t object to a 75% or higher tax rate on the rich. Depends of course on what “rich” is.

    Millennials also suck at IRL organizing, which is why labor unions haven’t bounced back despite an increasingly pro-union public. Each cohort being successively less white is also relevant, low trust makes it harder to organize unions.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    It’s mostly ethereal to the average person, but most people wouldn’t object to a 75% or higher tax rate on the rich.
     
    Agreed. And that's why it's so important to the rich to keep the identity politics/social justice thing going. If it wasn't for that then the average man and the average woman, and the average white and the average black, might get together and decide that they really really like that idea of a 75% or higher tax rate on the rich.
  34. On Topic

    Triangulating Zuck

    https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-pushes-back-against-claims-of-conservative-censorship/

    His use of “platform” is notable.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/bernice-king-daughter-mlk-criticizes-mark-zuckerberg-2019-10

    Also, its nice to have it admitted that the Civil Rights Revolution was the end of constitutional government in this country.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    I wouldn't bet against Augustus.
  35. I wonder how many people, particularly in the lower and middle classes, thought it was wrong or ill-advised but didn’t think he should lose his job over it. That’s a lot scarier the further down the socioeconomic ladder you go.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    It's discouraging to see the age distribution shake out the way it does.
  36. @Twinkie

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.
     
    Class markers and affluence intersect, but do not coincide perfectly. The adjunct professor yelling “We need some muscle here!” is not likely rich, but probably hates the right far more than your average “rich” people.

    Material explanations are often useful, but never sufficient, because, as greedy as we are, people are pack animals first.

    1. Class is defined on multiple axis.

    2. I disagree that material explanation is insufficient. The pie is in fact shrinking. That is the 1 sentence summary of why everything is the way it is. Radleft would have zero traction if everybody were rich and confident. Capital is grinding labor into the dirt, while simultaneously pumping Woke to get the upper paid tiers of labor to direct their anger about being ground into the dirt downward instead of upward.

  37. @Sailhead
    The pronouns were "him" and "his".

    I think they were expecting accurate and proactive use of ‘xe’ and ‘xir’ and other such weirdness.

  38. @Rosie

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.
     
    It's all being redirected based on race and sex. Old-fashioned leftists aren't wrong when they say so.

    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.

    It’s all being redirected based on race and sex. Old-fashioned leftists aren’t wrong when they say so.

    Yes. I think there is a fair bit of anger on the part of those targeted by the rich but it’s disorganised and confused. And as you say, it’s being directed against the wrong targets.

    This is why I have so little respect for the alt-right/dissident right. They’re actually serving the ends of the ruling class. They’re doing exactly what the ruling class wants. As long as they’re blaming everything on women, or blaming everything on men, or blaming everything on blacks or Jews or Freemasons or the Chinese or the commies – as long as they do this the ruling class is delighted.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    And getting Walmart cashiers fired for liking the wrong Instagram post is a similar useful idiocy coming from the other side.
  39. @Twinkie

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.
     
    Class markers and affluence intersect, but do not coincide perfectly. The adjunct professor yelling “We need some muscle here!” is not likely rich, but probably hates the right far more than your average “rich” people.

    Material explanations are often useful, but never sufficient, because, as greedy as we are, people are pack animals first.

    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.

    Class markers and affluence intersect, but do not coincide perfectly.

    True.

    And class is more complicated than rich/poor or middle class/working class, and always has been. The petite bourgeoisie are not the same as the haute bourgeoisie. The proletariat and the lumpenproletariat are not the same. And then there’s the problem of the intellectual class (like the adjunct professor in your example). And even among the upper reaches of the bourgeoisie there’s the old ownership class and the newer managerial class.

    What’s odd about our current situation is that the intellectual class has thrown in its lot with the ruling class. They’re aiming their intellectual guns at the poor rather than the rich. Back in the 1930s it was much more common for intellectuals to hate the bourgeoisie. Now they hate the proletariat.

    I apologise for using Marxist terminology (I know it will trigger some people here) but sometimes Marxist terminology is extremely useful.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    I apologise for using Marxist terminology (I know it will trigger some people here) but sometimes Marxist terminology is extremely useful.

     

    I use RULING CLASS and I don't care where it came from. Ancient Greeks or a Jew bastard named Marx.

    Andrew Jackson was born in 1767 and he fought the ruling class.

    Karl Marx was born in 1818 and he quibbled with the ruling class while focusing his main energies on destroying European Christendom. Marxism, to Marx, was a way to attack and kill European Christendom.

    Sam Francis used ruling class and so did Burnham before him.

    Ruling class removal is the name of the game.

    Managerial class or ruling class or globalizers or some other damn thing.
  40. @Anonymousse
    Rich people are acceptable when they broadly identify with the population of the country they inhabit... good thing too since they’re logically and practically ineradicable. Every society is an oligarchy at heart.

    Our problem is a hostile and foreign elite that actively despises the country it’s running. We need BETTER oligarchs.

    Rich people are acceptable when they broadly identify with the population of the country they inhabit…

    So when have they ever done that?

    The rich have always had a definite class consciousness. The rich at one time did have some vague nationalist consciousness but for rich people class identification always trumped national identification.

    • Replies: @Talha
    There is an old Turkish saying:
    “The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them.”

    Peace.
  41. @216
    The average person would be content with the tax loopholes being eliminated and a steady current of a few prominent people every year getting prison time for white-collar crime. (Note the popularity of CNBC's American Greed)

    Trump made a major error by not listening to Steve Bannon and raising the top bracket to 44% to pay for additional middle class cuts. Instead he listened to neocon Paul Singer and the WSJ, and cut the top rate from 39.6% to 37%, which is still higher than Bush's 35% and Reagan's 25%.

    It's mostly ethereal to the average person, but most people wouldn't object to a 75% or higher tax rate on the rich. Depends of course on what "rich" is.

    ---

    Millennials also suck at IRL organizing, which is why labor unions haven't bounced back despite an increasingly pro-union public. Each cohort being successively less white is also relevant, low trust makes it harder to organize unions.

    It’s mostly ethereal to the average person, but most people wouldn’t object to a 75% or higher tax rate on the rich.

    Agreed. And that’s why it’s so important to the rich to keep the identity politics/social justice thing going. If it wasn’t for that then the average man and the average woman, and the average white and the average black, might get together and decide that they really really like that idea of a 75% or higher tax rate on the rich.

  42. @dfordoom


    The rich have never been more bitter, vicious and hateful toward the rest of us.
     
    Class markers and affluence intersect, but do not coincide perfectly.
     
    True.

    And class is more complicated than rich/poor or middle class/working class, and always has been. The petite bourgeoisie are not the same as the haute bourgeoisie. The proletariat and the lumpenproletariat are not the same. And then there's the problem of the intellectual class (like the adjunct professor in your example). And even among the upper reaches of the bourgeoisie there's the old ownership class and the newer managerial class.

    What's odd about our current situation is that the intellectual class has thrown in its lot with the ruling class. They're aiming their intellectual guns at the poor rather than the rich. Back in the 1930s it was much more common for intellectuals to hate the bourgeoisie. Now they hate the proletariat.

    I apologise for using Marxist terminology (I know it will trigger some people here) but sometimes Marxist terminology is extremely useful.

    I apologise for using Marxist terminology (I know it will trigger some people here) but sometimes Marxist terminology is extremely useful.

    I use RULING CLASS and I don’t care where it came from. Ancient Greeks or a Jew bastard named Marx.

    Andrew Jackson was born in 1767 and he fought the ruling class.

    Karl Marx was born in 1818 and he quibbled with the ruling class while focusing his main energies on destroying European Christendom. Marxism, to Marx, was a way to attack and kill European Christendom.

    Sam Francis used ruling class and so did Burnham before him.

    Ruling class removal is the name of the game.

    Managerial class or ruling class or globalizers or some other damn thing.

  43. @Achmed E. Newman
    There are 2 questions at issue here, the teacher's free speech, and the real stupidity regarding which pronouns should be used. I'm not sure this poll separates these two out.

    It does, however, prove that the ctrl-left is much more radical than the right these days. Think about this: even if those "approve" responses are from people who really think that woman who recently got that 20% co-pay adedictome should be referred to as "he", why do they think the teacher should have been fired?

    If you put the shoe on the other foot and imagine a religious school that didn't teach the BLT-G* nonsense, with a teacher who IS using the BTLG-correct pronouns, what would you expect to happen? I doubt the guy would get fired - he'd probably just be called weird by students and teachers alike, and the less talked about it, the better.

    The left is hard-core. They will not be stopped with appeals for calm and resorting to logic.

    .

    * Bacon, Lettuce, and Tomato, with a side of Guacamole?

    There is a “customer service” aspect to this situation, though, that should at least be given consideration. The students are customers and the teachers are providing services to those customers. In our current consumerist milieu, the meta-expectation is that the service provider defer to customer desires. If I answered in support of the firing–which I would not do, as explained previously–I think this is how I’d justify that response.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    A.E. I hope it's OK that I paste in a long excerpt from Peak Stupidity to answer this. See, the students are NOT really supposed to be the only customers of higher education, which is why a big share of the money to pay for it all USED to come from the State and donors. This has changed as the US Feral Gov't started guaranteeing loans. From University Bubble 99 - Remedial Global Financial Stupidity at the U:

    The higher education business is different from most big business for a number of reasons. The first is that it is not clear who is the real customer - sure students pay tuition and expect a service out of that, but the state government chips in a significant share for many colleges. The idea is was that the entire state will benefit if the population is educated; they'll be more doctors, engineers, scientists, etc that, in the old days, would most likely stay in state and improve the economy and the quality of life in the state. Even in the case of humanities majors, the point was that a portion of well-educated people would benefit the state. This was the reason in-state tuition used to be set at very low rates vs. tuition for outsiders, not to mention foreigners. This entire concept doesn't seem to mean much anymore, as people in general are very mobile, and a significant portion of the students in a given college may be from out-of-state and out-of-country (these days), but also the chance of the graduates remaining in the state are also much smaller than in the past.

    In the case of private colleges, there are donors who really want the type of learning that goes on there to continue. It was somewhat more of a free market, as, before recently when the loan-bubble ramped up, tuition would be what the market for this sort of thing would bear on the part of the students.

    Another reason higher-ed is not like a normal business is that the bigger universities bring in research money. The original idea is that this is also good for the state and society in terms of the eventual benefits therefrom, and graduate students would get more learning in the process. I think that this noble concept has also been corrupted, as nowadays, the research associated completely with bringing in the money. It's not about education so much, and the learning suffers greatly. Well, it does sound like a normal business, you may say, but the differences are the labor is not free-market labor, but grad-students mostly imported for the work only (who cannot teach well due to poor English), and these university research groups are very much in cahoots with governments of all sorts (yeah, regular business is about this way now too, granted).

    Lastly, to define what the service really is that these "customers" - the students and the taxpayers of the state (or donors), are receiving, it could just be the piece of paper. For many employers, this is not necessarily a certificate of "knowledge gained", but also an indicator that this guy can at least work toward a long-term goal - the work it took to graduate The knowledge part is one thing, but for humanities majors, for instance, even in the past, it did not really place the graduate in a certain job. However, for all majors, but especially for the non-STEM (Science, Engineering, Math, Computers - hey, that doesn't spell STEM - we may need to get schooled here) fields, the 2nd part is key. In the past, with very good higher-ed in this country, employers could figure the non-STEM graduates were already screened. As many on the alt-right have rightfully said, this was even more important after the use of IQ tests were outlawed for reasons of being too fair, I guess, and making people notice who the dumb people were.
     
  44. @TheDividualist
    >Though the poll does not break down responses by both race and partisan affiliation, it can be deduced that white Democrats are more likely to favor the firing than non-white Democrats are.

    How the heck can that be deduced when 1) of the four racial groups whites had the lowest approval rates 2) the young had the highest approval rates, and while I have no data at hand I think whites are a relatively aging demographic due to lower reproduction and lower white immigration, so young people more likely to be non-white?

    By partisan affiliation. That Democrats are considerably more likely to approve than non-whites in general means that white Democrats are driving that overall Democrat figure up.

  45. @Peter F
    Keep getting told by Conservatism Inc about how socially conservative blacks are. Never seems to get born out by these polls.

    The only social issue it holds on is same-sex marriage, which is one conservatives in general have surrendered on anyway.

  46. @Audacious Epigone
    There is a "customer service" aspect to this situation, though, that should at least be given consideration. The students are customers and the teachers are providing services to those customers. In our current consumerist milieu, the meta-expectation is that the service provider defer to customer desires. If I answered in support of the firing--which I would not do, as explained previously--I think this is how I'd justify that response.

    A.E. I hope it’s OK that I paste in a long excerpt from Peak Stupidity to answer this. See, the students are NOT really supposed to be the only customers of higher education, which is why a big share of the money to pay for it all USED to come from the State and donors. This has changed as the US Feral Gov’t started guaranteeing loans. From University Bubble 99 – Remedial Global Financial Stupidity at the U:

    The higher education business is different from most big business for a number of reasons. The first is that it is not clear who is the real customer – sure students pay tuition and expect a service out of that, but the state government chips in a significant share for many colleges. The idea is was that the entire state will benefit if the population is educated; they’ll be more doctors, engineers, scientists, etc that, in the old days, would most likely stay in state and improve the economy and the quality of life in the state. Even in the case of humanities majors, the point was that a portion of well-educated people would benefit the state. This was the reason in-state tuition used to be set at very low rates vs. tuition for outsiders, not to mention foreigners. This entire concept doesn’t seem to mean much anymore, as people in general are very mobile, and a significant portion of the students in a given college may be from out-of-state and out-of-country (these days), but also the chance of the graduates remaining in the state are also much smaller than in the past.

    In the case of private colleges, there are donors who really want the type of learning that goes on there to continue. It was somewhat more of a free market, as, before recently when the loan-bubble ramped up, tuition would be what the market for this sort of thing would bear on the part of the students.

    Another reason higher-ed is not like a normal business is that the bigger universities bring in research money. The original idea is that this is also good for the state and society in terms of the eventual benefits therefrom, and graduate students would get more learning in the process. I think that this noble concept has also been corrupted, as nowadays, the research associated completely with bringing in the money. It’s not about education so much, and the learning suffers greatly. Well, it does sound like a normal business, you may say, but the differences are the labor is not free-market labor, but grad-students mostly imported for the work only (who cannot teach well due to poor English), and these university research groups are very much in cahoots with governments of all sorts (yeah, regular business is about this way now too, granted).

    Lastly, to define what the service really is that these “customers” – the students and the taxpayers of the state (or donors), are receiving, it could just be the piece of paper. For many employers, this is not necessarily a certificate of “knowledge gained”, but also an indicator that this guy can at least work toward a long-term goal – the work it took to graduate The knowledge part is one thing, but for humanities majors, for instance, even in the past, it did not really place the graduate in a certain job. However, for all majors, but especially for the non-STEM (Science, Engineering, Math, Computers – hey, that doesn’t spell STEM – we may need to get schooled here) fields, the 2nd part is key. In the past, with very good higher-ed in this country, employers could figure the non-STEM graduates were already screened. As many on the alt-right have rightfully said, this was even more important after the use of IQ tests were outlawed for reasons of being too fair, I guess, and making people notice who the dumb people were.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Agree in general, though it's a little less complicated through high school.

    In the case of a school like Harvard, where student tuition is a rounding error, students aren't the customers.
  47. @Anonymousse
    Rich people are acceptable when they broadly identify with the population of the country they inhabit... good thing too since they’re logically and practically ineradicable. Every society is an oligarchy at heart.

    Our problem is a hostile and foreign elite that actively despises the country it’s running. We need BETTER oligarchs.

    This is Tucker Carlson’s meta-message.

  48. @Anonymousse
    Class is not synonymous with net worth/income though. Correlated but separate.

    An adjunct professor is a member of a higher class than a plumber regardless of their respective incomes. This would be pervasively apparent in their personal habits, speech patterns, interests, and social interactions.

    Only an adjuct think this makes him BETTER than a plumber though.

    Indeed. The higher the class relative to income (as in the case of the adjunct professor), the more anti-Trump. The higher the income relative to the class (as in the master plumber), the more pro-Trump. Just looking at income or even just educational attainment only takes you so far.

  49. @dfordoom

    Rich people are acceptable when they broadly identify with the population of the country they inhabit…
     
    So when have they ever done that?

    The rich have always had a definite class consciousness. The rich at one time did have some vague nationalist consciousness but for rich people class identification always trumped national identification.

    There is an old Turkish saying:
    “The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them.”

    Peace.

  50. @216
    Blacks are rather mad that they have been forced into an education system that is nominally reliant on white standards.

    -Standardized testing means no more social promotion, and no devalued diplomas
    -Punctuality is not exactly something blacks are known for
    -Teaching credentials are awarded by passing exams, which limits the extent of A/A
    -Whites have eliminated corporal punishment (out of the South), and imported school resource officers
    -Textbooks are created by largely white bureaucracies at the state-level

    I suspect that a surprisingly large number of black parents would be favorable to single-sex education, which is unthinkable in the public schools. While charter schools are condemned by the left for their ability to expel problematic students to the public schools, I suspect again that there are black parents (of the other students) that like this.

    Blacks particularly hate the idea of vocational tracked education, seeing it as a white conspiracy to keep them in menial jobs. Even when you tell them that this is the way Germany does it, the needle doesn't move. Blacks tend to idealize France, to the extent that typical left-wing euro-envy is present.

    Sex segregated black public/charter schools do exist! Founded back in 2007 it seems like this grew out of a big educational fad around that time.

    https://www.kipphouston.org/polaris
    https://kipphouston.org/voyage

    Funny enough the boys school seems to have a curriculum based around a mix of Frederick Douglass and Kwanzaa candles.

    Seems pretty fascist though. Presumably they’ll now need 57 different schools for every current gender, and many kids will transfer enrollment between every school at will.

  51. @216
    On Topic

    Triangulating Zuck

    https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-pushes-back-against-claims-of-conservative-censorship/

    His use of "platform" is notable.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/bernice-king-daughter-mlk-criticizes-mark-zuckerberg-2019-10

    Also, its nice to have it admitted that the Civil Rights Revolution was the end of constitutional government in this country.

    I wouldn’t bet against Augustus.

  52. @SFG
    I wonder how many people, particularly in the lower and middle classes, thought it was wrong or ill-advised but didn't think he should lose his job over it. That's a lot scarier the further down the socioeconomic ladder you go.

    It’s discouraging to see the age distribution shake out the way it does.

  53. @dfordoom


    But there is shockingly little hatred directed back at the rich as a class by their targets.
     
    It’s all being redirected based on race and sex. Old-fashioned leftists aren’t wrong when they say so.
     
    Yes. I think there is a fair bit of anger on the part of those targeted by the rich but it's disorganised and confused. And as you say, it's being directed against the wrong targets.

    This is why I have so little respect for the alt-right/dissident right. They're actually serving the ends of the ruling class. They're doing exactly what the ruling class wants. As long as they're blaming everything on women, or blaming everything on men, or blaming everything on blacks or Jews or Freemasons or the Chinese or the commies - as long as they do this the ruling class is delighted.

    And getting Walmart cashiers fired for liking the wrong Instagram post is a similar useful idiocy coming from the other side.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    And getting Walmart cashiers fired for liking the wrong Instagram post is a similar useful idiocy coming from the other side.
     
    True. Both sides are doing stupid stuff, but the globalists and SJWs currently have the power so they can get away with making more mistakes.
  54. @Achmed E. Newman
    A.E. I hope it's OK that I paste in a long excerpt from Peak Stupidity to answer this. See, the students are NOT really supposed to be the only customers of higher education, which is why a big share of the money to pay for it all USED to come from the State and donors. This has changed as the US Feral Gov't started guaranteeing loans. From University Bubble 99 - Remedial Global Financial Stupidity at the U:

    The higher education business is different from most big business for a number of reasons. The first is that it is not clear who is the real customer - sure students pay tuition and expect a service out of that, but the state government chips in a significant share for many colleges. The idea is was that the entire state will benefit if the population is educated; they'll be more doctors, engineers, scientists, etc that, in the old days, would most likely stay in state and improve the economy and the quality of life in the state. Even in the case of humanities majors, the point was that a portion of well-educated people would benefit the state. This was the reason in-state tuition used to be set at very low rates vs. tuition for outsiders, not to mention foreigners. This entire concept doesn't seem to mean much anymore, as people in general are very mobile, and a significant portion of the students in a given college may be from out-of-state and out-of-country (these days), but also the chance of the graduates remaining in the state are also much smaller than in the past.

    In the case of private colleges, there are donors who really want the type of learning that goes on there to continue. It was somewhat more of a free market, as, before recently when the loan-bubble ramped up, tuition would be what the market for this sort of thing would bear on the part of the students.

    Another reason higher-ed is not like a normal business is that the bigger universities bring in research money. The original idea is that this is also good for the state and society in terms of the eventual benefits therefrom, and graduate students would get more learning in the process. I think that this noble concept has also been corrupted, as nowadays, the research associated completely with bringing in the money. It's not about education so much, and the learning suffers greatly. Well, it does sound like a normal business, you may say, but the differences are the labor is not free-market labor, but grad-students mostly imported for the work only (who cannot teach well due to poor English), and these university research groups are very much in cahoots with governments of all sorts (yeah, regular business is about this way now too, granted).

    Lastly, to define what the service really is that these "customers" - the students and the taxpayers of the state (or donors), are receiving, it could just be the piece of paper. For many employers, this is not necessarily a certificate of "knowledge gained", but also an indicator that this guy can at least work toward a long-term goal - the work it took to graduate The knowledge part is one thing, but for humanities majors, for instance, even in the past, it did not really place the graduate in a certain job. However, for all majors, but especially for the non-STEM (Science, Engineering, Math, Computers - hey, that doesn't spell STEM - we may need to get schooled here) fields, the 2nd part is key. In the past, with very good higher-ed in this country, employers could figure the non-STEM graduates were already screened. As many on the alt-right have rightfully said, this was even more important after the use of IQ tests were outlawed for reasons of being too fair, I guess, and making people notice who the dumb people were.
     

    Agree in general, though it’s a little less complicated through high school.

    In the case of a school like Harvard, where student tuition is a rounding error, students aren’t the customers.

  55. @Audacious Epigone
    And getting Walmart cashiers fired for liking the wrong Instagram post is a similar useful idiocy coming from the other side.

    And getting Walmart cashiers fired for liking the wrong Instagram post is a similar useful idiocy coming from the other side.

    True. Both sides are doing stupid stuff, but the globalists and SJWs currently have the power so they can get away with making more mistakes.

  56. Getting cashiers fired isn’t a mistake for the globalists–it’s a feature. For DSA-types, though, doing so isn’t hurting the neo-liberal orders, it’s empowering it.

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