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The percentages of adult men up to the age of 40 who had not had sex at all during the previous year, by selected demographics:

Jews get a bad rap for putative sexual perversion, but that reeks of jealousy to me! Parenthetically, it’s worth noting that the Jewish sample (n = 89) is the smallest one queried.

Black male/white female pairings are three times as frequent as white male/black female pairings, while white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least. That’s only part of the story, though, because there are legions of sexless Japanese men in 99+% Japan today.

Rather visit Old Faithful a couple of times a week or trek through the savannah searching for exciting new water holes at the risk of coming up dry? Marriage or bachelorhood, then.

It’s nice to come across something that isn’t strongly influenced by political orientation every now and then.

These responses are taken from 2000 through 2018 so the uptick in celibacy that has corresponded with (or is part of) The Great Awokening is tempered in this presentation.

GSS variables used: AGE(18-40), SEXFREQ(0), YEAR(2000-2018), RACECEN1(1)(2)(4-10), HISPANIC(1)(2-50), RELIG(1-2,4-13)(3), PARTYID(0-1)(2-4,7)(5-6), MARITAL(1)(3-4)(5), SEX(1)

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Race/Ethnicity, Science • Tags: GSS, Sex 
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  1. white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least. That’s only part of the story…

    Yes to the last sentence, but not in the way you meant. See: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    Among Asian newlyweds, these gender differences exist for both immigrants (15% men, 31% women) and the U.S. born (38% men, 54% women). While the gender gap among Asian immigrants has remained relatively stable, the gap among the U.S. born has widened substantially since 1980, when intermarriage stood at 46% among newlywed Asian men and 49% among newlywed Asian women.

    The statistics you describe is not so much about the lack of “dating privilege” for Asian men as the low tendency of foreign-born Asian men to out-marry. That could be because of their low “market value,” but it could be also because of cultural preference for in-marriage – in the old countries, sons inherited the family legacy and daughters did not, which means the sons marrying in-group is much more strongly preferred (which was certainly the case in my family).

    In addition, in the older married cohorts, there is a much higher proportion of marriages of American military men (including many whites) marrying foreign-born Asian women and bringing them to the United States. That proportion declines pretty dramatically in the younger cohorts, in which Asian intermarriages are much more assortative.

    What’s more interesting from the Pew data is that at one time (in 1980), for Asians – both men and women – out-marriage was nearly equally high 46% for men and 49% among women, but with the increased foreign-born population through immigration those proportions are falling. This does not bode well for assimilation and is yet another reason to curtail immigration from Asia.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    A complicating factor is that the "Asian" category has changed over time. In 1980, most Asian Americans were of East Asian descent, i.e., Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Today, a very large proportion are of South Asian or Southwestern Asian descent. The latter group (especially Muslims) have higher rates of out-marriage for men than for women.

    In addition, out-marriage will inevitably tend to decline among Asian Americans as they become more numerous -- not because they're not assimilating but because they are interacting much more with other Asian Americans.

    Incidentally, a similar problem exists with Ron Unz's data on Anti-Asian discrimination in the Ivy League. "Asians" on the East Coast are more likely to be of South Asian or Southwest Asian origin. So you can't really extrapolate data from West Coast universities.

    , @Truth
    I knew your was going to be the first comment, Homie! I set the personal odds at 5:1.
  2. That’s only part of the story, though, because there are legions of sexless Japanese men in 99+% Japan today.

    Have you considered the possibility that they might be more honest in answering such a question than their American counterparts?

    In personally sensitive subjects such as sex, I suspect there is a greater gap between revealed and stated preferences in the U.S., which is amply demonstrated by the abortion question.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Have you considered the possibility that they might be more honest in answering such a question than their American counterparts?
     
    Percentages of men up to the age of 40 who have [admitted to having] not had sex at all over the course of the previous year

    In personally sensitive subjects such as sex, I suspect there is a greater gap between revealed and stated preferences in the U.S.
     
    ...and in the male population. Anywhere.

    Except monasteries and rectories. And penitentiaries.

    Men lie up. Women lie down.

    , @Audacious Epigone
    Sure, though it looks like Asians in the US answer similarly. Maybe they are just more honest about it, but these results more-or-less accord with my personal experience.
  3. Another thing I find a bit odd about the data is that 99% of married people had sex at least once in the past year. And Asians have the highest marriage rates (and the lowest divorce rates):

    Something doesn’t jive well with the data (although there is, of course, a possibility that the non-married Asians are particularly prone to “no sex last year” category).

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    I see what you mean - if 90% of Asians are married (though by what age? the graph doesn't say) and only 1% of married men are incels, does not compute. Even if the 90% figure was 100% of females and 80% of males.

    I find it hard to imagine that even 1% of married men are incels, unless they or their wives are ill, they live apart, or they're in the process of divorcing. And sad to see that incels, who have enough of a problem as it is, are now considered to be a threat to the most powerful air force on earth. Talk about kicking a man when he's down.
    , @RSDB
    ~60% of male Asians 18-40 in the 2000-18 surveys are never-married, about 40% of that reports no sex for the year.

    https://pasteboard.co/IksjBKx.png

    https://pasteboard.co/IksvLTN.png

    The sample numbers are a little small for my personal comfort but then I'm not a statistician (which also goes toward explaining the absence of quality in graphics and whatever mistakes I have made).

    , @Audacious Epigone
    Among unmarried, sex frequency from most to least is black, Hispanic, white, Asian in the GSS. I may look at that in more detail. There isn't much difference among married, though GSS shows about 6% as sexless rather than 1%.
  4. Black male/white female pairings are three times as frequent as white male/black female pairings, while white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least

    Weird inductive reasoning reasoning that excludes Hispanics. Whitemale+Asian female is way more prevalent than Blackmale+Whitefemale.
    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.
     
    I don’t know about that. Asian male-whites female couples have the highest average income.
    https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f3d4337eab8eaef54000042-480-712.jpg
  5. @Twinkie

    white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least. That’s only part of the story...
     
    Yes to the last sentence, but not in the way you meant. See: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    Among Asian newlyweds, these gender differences exist for both immigrants (15% men, 31% women) and the U.S. born (38% men, 54% women). While the gender gap among Asian immigrants has remained relatively stable, the gap among the U.S. born has widened substantially since 1980, when intermarriage stood at 46% among newlywed Asian men and 49% among newlywed Asian women.
     
    The statistics you describe is not so much about the lack of "dating privilege" for Asian men as the low tendency of foreign-born Asian men to out-marry. That could be because of their low "market value," but it could be also because of cultural preference for in-marriage - in the old countries, sons inherited the family legacy and daughters did not, which means the sons marrying in-group is much more strongly preferred (which was certainly the case in my family).

    In addition, in the older married cohorts, there is a much higher proportion of marriages of American military men (including many whites) marrying foreign-born Asian women and bringing them to the United States. That proportion declines pretty dramatically in the younger cohorts, in which Asian intermarriages are much more assortative.

    What's more interesting from the Pew data is that at one time (in 1980), for Asians - both men and women - out-marriage was nearly equally high 46% for men and 49% among women, but with the increased foreign-born population through immigration those proportions are falling. This does not bode well for assimilation and is yet another reason to curtail immigration from Asia.

    A complicating factor is that the “Asian” category has changed over time. In 1980, most Asian Americans were of East Asian descent, i.e., Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Today, a very large proportion are of South Asian or Southwestern Asian descent. The latter group (especially Muslims) have higher rates of out-marriage for men than for women.

    In addition, out-marriage will inevitably tend to decline among Asian Americans as they become more numerous — not because they’re not assimilating but because they are interacting much more with other Asian Americans.

    Incidentally, a similar problem exists with Ron Unz’s data on Anti-Asian discrimination in the Ivy League. “Asians” on the East Coast are more likely to be of South Asian or Southwest Asian origin. So you can’t really extrapolate data from West Coast universities.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    In 1980, most Asian Americans were of East Asian descent, i.e., Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Today, a very large proportion are of South Asian or Southwestern Asian descent. The latter group (especially Muslims) have higher rates of out-marriage for men than for women.
     
    The problem with this assertion is that the Asian male out-marriage rate was higher in 1980.

    South Asians have very low out-marriage rates, period, men or women, foreign-born or US-born.

    In addition, out-marriage will inevitably tend to decline among Asian Americans as they become more numerous — not because they’re not assimilating but because they are interacting much more with other Asian Americans.
     
    Yes. No. Intermarriage is often used as as proxy for assimilation, particularly cultural assimilation (in fact the Manhattan Institute, which has a long-running study on assimilation uses it exactly as such).

    “Asians” on the East Coast are more likely to be of South Asian or Southwest Asian origin. So you can’t really extrapolate data from West Coast universities.
     
    I think that runs more north-south than east-west. Indians are more prevalent in the South than in places such as Boston. Although, these days, it’s more about where the IT industry is located.
  6. @Sam Coulton

    Black male/white female pairings are three times as frequent as white male/black female pairings, while white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least
     
    Weird inductive reasoning reasoning that excludes Hispanics. Whitemale+Asian female is way more prevalent than Blackmale+Whitefemale.
    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.

    https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-edition/20180818_FBC544.png

    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.

    I don’t know about that. Asian male-whites female couples have the highest average income.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Sorry, median, not average, income.
    , @Sam Coulton
    When I say priveleged, I mean in the context of desirability as anepigone was framing it, not median earnings of married couples.
    , @SFG
    The AMWF-WMAF difference is pretty small, though. What's interesting is that Asian-white couples make more money than either white or Asian couples, which I'd guess seems to reflect elite interbreeding--Zuckerberg and the Tiger Mom are the most famous cases but you see a lot of those couples in the nicer parts of many big cities.

    Money's more important than racial purity when there's money involved--I wonder if the alimony laws have anything to do with it?

    , @Jim Christian
    Where are the Jews in that graph?
    , @Bill P
    This is largely a result of geography. White couples are a lot more likely to live outside of major metro areas where pay is lower than mixed white/Asian couples. Lots of Hispanics also live out in the hinterlands.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    My use of privileged is pretty sloppy--I just meant in terms of realized sexual access, nothing else.
  7. @Peter Frost
    A complicating factor is that the "Asian" category has changed over time. In 1980, most Asian Americans were of East Asian descent, i.e., Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Today, a very large proportion are of South Asian or Southwestern Asian descent. The latter group (especially Muslims) have higher rates of out-marriage for men than for women.

    In addition, out-marriage will inevitably tend to decline among Asian Americans as they become more numerous -- not because they're not assimilating but because they are interacting much more with other Asian Americans.

    Incidentally, a similar problem exists with Ron Unz's data on Anti-Asian discrimination in the Ivy League. "Asians" on the East Coast are more likely to be of South Asian or Southwest Asian origin. So you can't really extrapolate data from West Coast universities.

    In 1980, most Asian Americans were of East Asian descent, i.e., Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Today, a very large proportion are of South Asian or Southwestern Asian descent. The latter group (especially Muslims) have higher rates of out-marriage for men than for women.

    The problem with this assertion is that the Asian male out-marriage rate was higher in 1980.

    South Asians have very low out-marriage rates, period, men or women, foreign-born or US-born.

    In addition, out-marriage will inevitably tend to decline among Asian Americans as they become more numerous — not because they’re not assimilating but because they are interacting much more with other Asian Americans.

    Yes. No. Intermarriage is often used as as proxy for assimilation, particularly cultural assimilation (in fact the Manhattan Institute, which has a long-running study on assimilation uses it exactly as such).

    “Asians” on the East Coast are more likely to be of South Asian or Southwest Asian origin. So you can’t really extrapolate data from West Coast universities.

    I think that runs more north-south than east-west. Indians are more prevalent in the South than in places such as Boston. Although, these days, it’s more about where the IT industry is located.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    The problem with this assertion is that the Asian male out-marriage rate was higher in 1980.

    I was referring to the gender gap in out-marriage. Among U.S. born Asian Americans, the gender gap has widened considerably since 1980. This is because a higher percentage of them are Muslim Americans of South Asian or Southwest Asian heritage. We see the same phenomenon in Canada.

    Intermarriage is often used as as proxy for assimilation, particularly cultural assimilation

    It's a useful proxy only if the demographics remain stable. Imagine a city that becomes majority Asian American through immigration. In that environment, Asian Americans will tend to marry other Asian Americans regardless of their degree of assimilation.

    Marriage is not simply a product of desires or wishes. It's also a product of opportunities.

  8. @Twinkie

    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.
     
    I don’t know about that. Asian male-whites female couples have the highest average income.
    https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f3d4337eab8eaef54000042-480-712.jpg

    Sorry, median, not average, income.

  9. @Twinkie

    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.
     
    I don’t know about that. Asian male-whites female couples have the highest average income.
    https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f3d4337eab8eaef54000042-480-712.jpg

    When I say priveleged, I mean in the context of desirability as anepigone was framing it, not median earnings of married couples.

  10. @Twinkie

    In 1980, most Asian Americans were of East Asian descent, i.e., Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Today, a very large proportion are of South Asian or Southwestern Asian descent. The latter group (especially Muslims) have higher rates of out-marriage for men than for women.
     
    The problem with this assertion is that the Asian male out-marriage rate was higher in 1980.

    South Asians have very low out-marriage rates, period, men or women, foreign-born or US-born.

    In addition, out-marriage will inevitably tend to decline among Asian Americans as they become more numerous — not because they’re not assimilating but because they are interacting much more with other Asian Americans.
     
    Yes. No. Intermarriage is often used as as proxy for assimilation, particularly cultural assimilation (in fact the Manhattan Institute, which has a long-running study on assimilation uses it exactly as such).

    “Asians” on the East Coast are more likely to be of South Asian or Southwest Asian origin. So you can’t really extrapolate data from West Coast universities.
     
    I think that runs more north-south than east-west. Indians are more prevalent in the South than in places such as Boston. Although, these days, it’s more about where the IT industry is located.

    The problem with this assertion is that the Asian male out-marriage rate was higher in 1980.

    I was referring to the gender gap in out-marriage. Among U.S. born Asian Americans, the gender gap has widened considerably since 1980. This is because a higher percentage of them are Muslim Americans of South Asian or Southwest Asian heritage. We see the same phenomenon in Canada.

    Intermarriage is often used as as proxy for assimilation, particularly cultural assimilation

    It’s a useful proxy only if the demographics remain stable. Imagine a city that becomes majority Asian American through immigration. In that environment, Asian Americans will tend to marry other Asian Americans regardless of their degree of assimilation.

    Marriage is not simply a product of desires or wishes. It’s also a product of opportunities.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Marriage is not simply a product of desires or wishes. It’s also a product of opportunities.
     
    Yep.


    https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/11/27/ethnic-preferences2_custom-2bcc84fb38b5ab6f7b614f933449fe2421d0eefd-s800-c85.png
    , @Peter Frost
    Among U.S. born Asian Americans, the gender gap has widened considerably since 1980. This is because a higher percentage of them are Muslim Americans of South Asian or Southwest Asian heritage.

    Sorry Twinkie, I've got this wrong. The gender gap has widened because Asian American men have become less likely to out-marry since 1980. So it can't be because the "Asian" category is becoming more Muslim.

    I still don't think it's because Asian Americans are becoming less assimilated. That factor doesn't seem to deter the women. A more likely factor is the wife shortage in the white American population. That was just starting in 1980, and it didn't become serious until the 1990s (when large numbers of male baby boomers were divorcing and remarrying with younger wives from the baby bust generation).

  11. @Peter Frost
    The problem with this assertion is that the Asian male out-marriage rate was higher in 1980.

    I was referring to the gender gap in out-marriage. Among U.S. born Asian Americans, the gender gap has widened considerably since 1980. This is because a higher percentage of them are Muslim Americans of South Asian or Southwest Asian heritage. We see the same phenomenon in Canada.

    Intermarriage is often used as as proxy for assimilation, particularly cultural assimilation

    It's a useful proxy only if the demographics remain stable. Imagine a city that becomes majority Asian American through immigration. In that environment, Asian Americans will tend to marry other Asian Americans regardless of their degree of assimilation.

    Marriage is not simply a product of desires or wishes. It's also a product of opportunities.

    Marriage is not simply a product of desires or wishes. It’s also a product of opportunities.

    Yep.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Don’t confuse marriages with one website’s online dating preferences. The two are not the same.

    For example, that chart has Asian men seeking Hispanic women, but in reality the vast majority of Asian intermarriages - men or women - are with whites.
    , @Ian Smith
    This confirms something that I’ve suspected for awhile: that the relative dearth of white male, black female couples is due to a lack of interest on both sides.
  12. @Peter Frost
    The problem with this assertion is that the Asian male out-marriage rate was higher in 1980.

    I was referring to the gender gap in out-marriage. Among U.S. born Asian Americans, the gender gap has widened considerably since 1980. This is because a higher percentage of them are Muslim Americans of South Asian or Southwest Asian heritage. We see the same phenomenon in Canada.

    Intermarriage is often used as as proxy for assimilation, particularly cultural assimilation

    It's a useful proxy only if the demographics remain stable. Imagine a city that becomes majority Asian American through immigration. In that environment, Asian Americans will tend to marry other Asian Americans regardless of their degree of assimilation.

    Marriage is not simply a product of desires or wishes. It's also a product of opportunities.

    Among U.S. born Asian Americans, the gender gap has widened considerably since 1980. This is because a higher percentage of them are Muslim Americans of South Asian or Southwest Asian heritage.

    Sorry Twinkie, I’ve got this wrong. The gender gap has widened because Asian American men have become less likely to out-marry since 1980. So it can’t be because the “Asian” category is becoming more Muslim.

    I still don’t think it’s because Asian Americans are becoming less assimilated. That factor doesn’t seem to deter the women. A more likely factor is the wife shortage in the white American population. That was just starting in 1980, and it didn’t become serious until the 1990s (when large numbers of male baby boomers were divorcing and remarrying with younger wives from the baby bust generation).

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Sorry Twinkie, I’ve got this wrong. The gender gap has widened because Asian American men have become less likely to out-marry since 1980. So it can’t be because the “Asian” category is becoming more Muslim.
     
    Yes, that was what I was getting at earlier. (And East Asians intermarry with whites at higher rates than South Asians.)

    It’s a useful proxy only if the demographics remain stable. Imagine a city that becomes majority Asian American through immigration. In that environment, Asian Americans will tend to marry other Asian Americans regardless of their degree of assimilation.
     
    “Regardless” is off the mark there. The two are not separate, unrelated variables. One is used as a proxy for the other, because they are mutually-reinforcing.
    , @Twinkie

    So it can’t be because the “Asian” category is becoming more Muslim.
     
    By the way, Muslims are a tiny fraction of the Asians population in America.

    What’s changing is that the Asian population in America is becoming much less Japanese and Korean and much more Indian - very rapidly.
    , @Oblivionrecurs
    This is Asian demographics per county

    http://magaimg.net/img/86u5.jpg


    Currently

    Asians in America by Pew Research and AAPI data

    Indians
    65% Democrat, 18% Republican - 2012
    66% Democrat, 22% Republican - 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 28% Pro-Trump - 2020
    Pro Tulsi Gabbard
    42-60% oppose affirmative action
    49% Big Gov, 40% Small Gov
    68% Registering, 62% voting
    Have the least sex
    Concerned with bullying
    Environmentalist

    Japanese
    54% Democrat, 29% Republican - 2012
    64% Democrat, 10% Republican - 2018
    72% Anti-Trump, 14% Pro-Trump - 2020
    43% Small Gov, 41% Big Gov
    67% Registering, 62% voting
    Most anti Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn't exist

    Chinese
    49% Democrat, 26% Republican - 2012
    46% Democrat, 22% Republican - 2018
    70% Anti-Trump, 24% Pro-Trump - 2020
    60-70% oppose affirmative action, was at 78% support affirmative action a few years ago
    50% Big-Gov, 39% Small Gov
    48% registering, 41% voting
    Most Pro Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn't exist

    Korean
    48% Democrat, 32% Republican - 2012
    68% Democrat, 24% Republican - 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 32% Pro-Trump - 2020
    68% Big Gov, 26% Small Gov
    26-28% oppose affirmative action
    55% Registered, 46% voting

    Filipino
    43% Democrat, 40% Republican - 2012
    40% Democrat, 40% Republican - 2018
    51% Pro-Trump, 49% Anti-Trump - 2020
    58% Big Gov. 36% Small Gov
    46-48% oppose affirmative action
    59% Registered, 50% voting
    Have the most sex

    Vietnamese
    36% Democrat, 35% Republican - 2012
    46% Republican, 32% Democrat - 2018
    64% Pro-Trump, 32% Anti-Trump - 2020
    69% Big Gov, 22% Small Gov
    44%-46% oppose affirmative action
    56% Registered, 46% voting
    Least into the environment
  13. @Twinkie

    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.
     
    I don’t know about that. Asian male-whites female couples have the highest average income.
    https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f3d4337eab8eaef54000042-480-712.jpg

    The AMWF-WMAF difference is pretty small, though. What’s interesting is that Asian-white couples make more money than either white or Asian couples, which I’d guess seems to reflect elite interbreeding–Zuckerberg and the Tiger Mom are the most famous cases but you see a lot of those couples in the nicer parts of many big cities.

    Money’s more important than racial purity when there’s money involved–I wonder if the alimony laws have anything to do with it?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    elite interbreeding
     
    You are talking about my wife and me, in both cognitive and financial terms. We built the financial part together though - ours was a “startup” marriage, as we were in our early 20’s (met at an Ivy).
    , @Twinkie

    Money’s more important than racial purity when there’s money involved–I wonder if the alimony laws have anything to do with it?
     
    It’s not about money so much as education attainment, which is a greater class marker than income.

    It used to be school, church, or work was where you met your spouse. That’s changing thanks to online dating, but the old haunts are still more important in forming marriages (whereas the Internet figures increasingly more in dating - which is to say that which does not lead to marriages).
    , @XYZ (no Mr.)
    I think geography plays a big role. Only a conjecture, but I think most WM AF and AM WF marriages will take place in urban regions with higher salaries (offset by expensive housing). WM-WF marriages will be distributed around the country. And assuming Asian Americans intermarry at a higher rates, most mixed marriages will consist of two Americans. I think the AM AF income is lower because the percentage of immigrants in that group is much higher.
  14. Black male/white female pairings are three times as frequent as white male/black female pairings, while white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least.

    That obviously is bad logic.

    1) Whites three time as frequent pairings with Asians cancels out black three times as frequent pairings with white women – which is obviously a consequence of the relative unattractiveness of black women, anyways. Which actually means the white advantage with Asians dwarfs the black advantage with whites, which isn’t even real on second look.

    And then the actual numbers, not just the ratios, are the significant factors here.

    Its well known whites have the greatest dating advantage in the US.

    Really bad logic, AE -I’m shocked at you! You’re not stupid, but this was….

    But I forgive you – as a white HBDer, distorting data in favor of blacks in the sexual realm, and of Jews and Asians in the intellectual , are in your DNA 🙂 Just another symptom of late Western decline…

    That’s only part of the story, though, because there are legions of sexless Japanese men in 99+% Japan today.

    Complete and total myth.

    Prostitution is enormous and widespread and fully accepted in Japan, and everyone uses it.

    Japanese have available to them all the sex they could possibly desire, and more.

    Now relationships, that’s another matter…

    • Replies: @iffen
    Just another symptom of late Western decline…

    Just another symptom of early Western decline…

    No charge!
    , @Twinkie
    Keep in mind that there is a pretty wide class gap between Asian-white pairings and black-white pairings. In particular, black male-white female couples are economically downscale.
    , @Rosie

    But I forgive you – as a white HBDer, distorting data in favor of blacks in the sexual realm, and of Jews and Asians in the intellectual , are in your DNA 🙂 Just another symptom of late Western decline…
     
    It's the manosphere influence. Their whole schtick depends on the notion that White women prefer thuggish "alphas" (read: black men) Evidence to the contrary is ignored.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Huh? I didn't say blacks had a dating advantage over whites overall. Outside of skewed sex ratios, that wouldn't even be possible. The advantage/disadvantage in this context necessarily relies on both race and sex (ie black men are more interracially successful than black women and Asian women are more interracially successful than Asian men).

    Here's a writeup critical of the sensationalist "Japanese are sexless" Western take that nonetheless reports that a little over 20% of Japanese men between the ages of 18-39 are virgins.
  15. @Peter Frost
    Among U.S. born Asian Americans, the gender gap has widened considerably since 1980. This is because a higher percentage of them are Muslim Americans of South Asian or Southwest Asian heritage.

    Sorry Twinkie, I've got this wrong. The gender gap has widened because Asian American men have become less likely to out-marry since 1980. So it can't be because the "Asian" category is becoming more Muslim.

    I still don't think it's because Asian Americans are becoming less assimilated. That factor doesn't seem to deter the women. A more likely factor is the wife shortage in the white American population. That was just starting in 1980, and it didn't become serious until the 1990s (when large numbers of male baby boomers were divorcing and remarrying with younger wives from the baby bust generation).

    Sorry Twinkie, I’ve got this wrong. The gender gap has widened because Asian American men have become less likely to out-marry since 1980. So it can’t be because the “Asian” category is becoming more Muslim.

    Yes, that was what I was getting at earlier. (And East Asians intermarry with whites at higher rates than South Asians.)

    It’s a useful proxy only if the demographics remain stable. Imagine a city that becomes majority Asian American through immigration. In that environment, Asian Americans will tend to marry other Asian Americans regardless of their degree of assimilation.

    “Regardless” is off the mark there. The two are not separate, unrelated variables. One is used as a proxy for the other, because they are mutually-reinforcing.

  16. wrt Jews:

    I have a hard time believing their percentages would be that much lower than for white Gentiles. Whites and Hispanics having nearly identical percentages makes a lot of sense, and while I can believe that it would be lower for Jews, that low of a number sounds inaccurate to me.

    wrt Asian female dating privilege:

    Asian women definitely have more options than Asian men. Since the Great Awokening took off, Asian-American politics have bifurcated along gender. Asian women have become far more Woke, and they try to masquerade their dating privilege with NYT pieces along the lines of, “Let’s talk about how it’s GROSS how all these white guys want me!”

    In the past, Asian-American women were considered a sanctuary from white grrrl feminism. That’s changed; now Asian-American women are about as obnoxiously SJW as white American women are. A number of white Millennial men I know who had Yellow Fever back in the day grumble about that.

    In contrast, Asian men seem to be getting friendlier with right-wing nationalist and populist politics. The Hispanic Heritage Survey found a majority of Asian male Zoomers backed Trump. Andrew Yang isn’t right-wing, but he’s far and away the the best Democratic candidate, and the only one I could imagine voting for over Trump.

    I support the Ice Men Alliance when it comes to the sexual market place. White men should stay away from Asian-American women, especially if Asian men support our politics. And yes, I am not allow bn male Caucasion female Asian female grand parent cry

    wrt Bachelorhood vs Married Life:

    Exceedingly few men will get more sex out of Eternal Bachelorhood than Married Life. And if they can, there’s no guarantee it will stay that way over the years. And if they can manage it, they may yet not be interested in keeping it going forever. The example of Roosh V is highly telling.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Exceedingly few men will get more sex out of Eternal Bachelorhood than Married Life. And if they can, there’s no guarantee it will stay that way over the years. And if they can manage it, they may yet not be interested in keeping it going forever. The example of Roosh V is highly telling.

    As the novelty wears off and the ability to catch birds becomes more difficult with age, a bird in hand increasingly comes to look better than any number free to wander.
  17. @Rosie

    Marriage is not simply a product of desires or wishes. It’s also a product of opportunities.
     
    Yep.


    https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/11/27/ethnic-preferences2_custom-2bcc84fb38b5ab6f7b614f933449fe2421d0eefd-s800-c85.png

    Don’t confuse marriages with one website’s online dating preferences. The two are not the same.

    For example, that chart has Asian men seeking Hispanic women, but in reality the vast majority of Asian intermarriages – men or women – are with whites.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    The majority of people in America are white as of 2019, so it's expected that the majority of interracial relationships among nonwhite people will involve whites. And the data seem to reflect that, however, the "other" and "Hispanic" categories are proportionately vastly overrepresented in Asian interracial reltionships as compared with whites.

    This is particularly true for Laotian men who marry "Other" women more commonly than white women. Hmong men really buck the trend by marrying more black women than white women. Laotian and Japanese married women appear to be about as likely to be with a nonwhite-nonasian spouse as they are with a white. Filipino patterns are very balanced. I would say it's more like a modest majority of Asians are more likely to marry whites, but proportionately they tend to mix more with the "other-hispanic-black" legion. These are newlywed statistics from 2008-2016 so they don't represent the majority of American marriqges, and with few young Americans marrying, they don't necessarily reflect cohabit/date trends either.

    https://i.imgur.com/9cqeEFV.jpg

  18. Jews get a bad rap for putative sexual perversion, but that reeks of jealousy to me!

    I thought that was, not so much jealousy, but from Jews being disproportionately represented among the alleged perpetrators in the #metoo accusations as well as homosexuals and such.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    I'm just lamely trolling there. It's probably a whole host of factors--high population density, higher sexual desire, higher rates of homosexuality, greater SES, higher intelligence, higher openness to experience, more political liberalism, etc.
  19. @SFG
    The AMWF-WMAF difference is pretty small, though. What's interesting is that Asian-white couples make more money than either white or Asian couples, which I'd guess seems to reflect elite interbreeding--Zuckerberg and the Tiger Mom are the most famous cases but you see a lot of those couples in the nicer parts of many big cities.

    Money's more important than racial purity when there's money involved--I wonder if the alimony laws have anything to do with it?

    elite interbreeding

    You are talking about my wife and me, in both cognitive and financial terms. We built the financial part together though – ours was a “startup” marriage, as we were in our early 20’s (met at an Ivy).

    • Replies: @SFG
    Kudos, man.

    It *is* funny how the upper middle and upper classes are basically practicing eugenics, though of course most of them would be horrified at the thought.
  20. @AaronB

    Black male/white female pairings are three times as frequent as white male/black female pairings, while white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least.
     
    That obviously is bad logic.

    1) Whites three time as frequent pairings with Asians cancels out black three times as frequent pairings with white women - which is obviously a consequence of the relative unattractiveness of black women, anyways. Which actually means the white advantage with Asians dwarfs the black advantage with whites, which isn't even real on second look.

    And then the actual numbers, not just the ratios, are the significant factors here.

    Its well known whites have the greatest dating advantage in the US.

    Really bad logic, AE -I'm shocked at you! You're not stupid, but this was....

    But I forgive you - as a white HBDer, distorting data in favor of blacks in the sexual realm, and of Jews and Asians in the intellectual , are in your DNA :) Just another symptom of late Western decline...

    That’s only part of the story, though, because there are legions of sexless Japanese men in 99+% Japan today.
     
    Complete and total myth.

    Prostitution is enormous and widespread and fully accepted in Japan, and everyone uses it.

    Japanese have available to them all the sex they could possibly desire, and more.

    Now relationships, that's another matter...

    Just another symptom of late Western decline…

    Just another symptom of early Western decline…

    No charge!

  21. @AaronB

    Black male/white female pairings are three times as frequent as white male/black female pairings, while white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least.
     
    That obviously is bad logic.

    1) Whites three time as frequent pairings with Asians cancels out black three times as frequent pairings with white women - which is obviously a consequence of the relative unattractiveness of black women, anyways. Which actually means the white advantage with Asians dwarfs the black advantage with whites, which isn't even real on second look.

    And then the actual numbers, not just the ratios, are the significant factors here.

    Its well known whites have the greatest dating advantage in the US.

    Really bad logic, AE -I'm shocked at you! You're not stupid, but this was....

    But I forgive you - as a white HBDer, distorting data in favor of blacks in the sexual realm, and of Jews and Asians in the intellectual , are in your DNA :) Just another symptom of late Western decline...

    That’s only part of the story, though, because there are legions of sexless Japanese men in 99+% Japan today.
     
    Complete and total myth.

    Prostitution is enormous and widespread and fully accepted in Japan, and everyone uses it.

    Japanese have available to them all the sex they could possibly desire, and more.

    Now relationships, that's another matter...

    Keep in mind that there is a pretty wide class gap between Asian-white pairings and black-white pairings. In particular, black male-white female couples are economically downscale.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Keep in mind that there is a pretty wide class gap between Asian-white pairings and black-white pairings. In particular, black male-white female couples are economically downscale.
     
    This might be less pronounced in areas, e.g. the Twin Cities, Green Bay, Wausau, Fresno, where a significant, even majority, of the East Asian population is South-East Asian. I.e., Hmong, Cambodian, Lao.

    We had a neighbor family in which the Vietnamese mother spoke poor English. As did her white American husband... though in a different sense! Our young mom next-door neighbor spoke no English. Her aged husband (both Vietnamese) could, but just barely.

    These people are low on the class ladder. (The latter couple's kids won't stay there.)

    Vietnamese are a cut or two above the rest of the Indochinese immigrant population. You can imagine how more pronounced this kind of thing must be among the rest.
  22. @Peter Frost
    Among U.S. born Asian Americans, the gender gap has widened considerably since 1980. This is because a higher percentage of them are Muslim Americans of South Asian or Southwest Asian heritage.

    Sorry Twinkie, I've got this wrong. The gender gap has widened because Asian American men have become less likely to out-marry since 1980. So it can't be because the "Asian" category is becoming more Muslim.

    I still don't think it's because Asian Americans are becoming less assimilated. That factor doesn't seem to deter the women. A more likely factor is the wife shortage in the white American population. That was just starting in 1980, and it didn't become serious until the 1990s (when large numbers of male baby boomers were divorcing and remarrying with younger wives from the baby bust generation).

    So it can’t be because the “Asian” category is becoming more Muslim.

    By the way, Muslims are a tiny fraction of the Asians population in America.

    What’s changing is that the Asian population in America is becoming much less Japanese and Korean and much more Indian – very rapidly.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    By the way, Muslims are a tiny fraction of the Asians population in America.
     
    East Asian. They have to come from Asia or Africa.
  23. @SFG
    The AMWF-WMAF difference is pretty small, though. What's interesting is that Asian-white couples make more money than either white or Asian couples, which I'd guess seems to reflect elite interbreeding--Zuckerberg and the Tiger Mom are the most famous cases but you see a lot of those couples in the nicer parts of many big cities.

    Money's more important than racial purity when there's money involved--I wonder if the alimony laws have anything to do with it?

    Money’s more important than racial purity when there’s money involved–I wonder if the alimony laws have anything to do with it?

    It’s not about money so much as education attainment, which is a greater class marker than income.

    It used to be school, church, or work was where you met your spouse. That’s changing thanks to online dating, but the old haunts are still more important in forming marriages (whereas the Internet figures increasingly more in dating – which is to say that which does not lead to marriages).

  24. @Twinkie
    Don’t confuse marriages with one website’s online dating preferences. The two are not the same.

    For example, that chart has Asian men seeking Hispanic women, but in reality the vast majority of Asian intermarriages - men or women - are with whites.

    The majority of people in America are white as of 2019, so it’s expected that the majority of interracial relationships among nonwhite people will involve whites. And the data seem to reflect that, however, the “other” and “Hispanic” categories are proportionately vastly overrepresented in Asian interracial reltionships as compared with whites.

    This is particularly true for Laotian men who marry “Other” women more commonly than white women. Hmong men really buck the trend by marrying more black women than white women. Laotian and Japanese married women appear to be about as likely to be with a nonwhite-nonasian spouse as they are with a white. Filipino patterns are very balanced. I would say it’s more like a modest majority of Asians are more likely to marry whites, but proportionately they tend to mix more with the “other-hispanic-black” legion. These are newlywed statistics from 2008-2016 so they don’t represent the majority of American marriqges, and with few young Americans marrying, they don’t necessarily reflect cohabit/date trends either.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Back-of-the-envelope-ing here, so please feel free to correct me.

    Pew reports for interracial marriage by type: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/pst_2017-05-15-intermarriage-01-00/

    These are reports for "newlyweds", most of whom will be millenial; so from https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/07/biggest-share-of-whites-in-u-s-are-boomers-but-for-minority-groups-its-millennials-or-younger/ft_16-7-7-genage2/ and general fugures for US population of 61.3% white and 17.8% Hispanic there are about 2.8 times as many white as Hispanic millenials in the US (though the issue is confused by white and Hispanic not being exclusive). But there are five times as many white-Asian as Hispanic-Asian marriages in the US, so Asians are not showing a vastly preponderant preference for Hispanics as opposed to whites as marriage partners.
    , @Bliss
    That chart confirms all the stereotypes: asian-american females marry outside their race at far greater rates than asian males (more than double); while white, hispanic and south asian men and women marry out equally.

    African-American men marry white women at a higher rate than chinese-american men (the largest Asian ethnicity) do. If you add unmarried hookups the difference in mating rates would probably be much higher.

    Filipinas marry white men at the highest rate, followed closely by Japanese women. These are the only two ethnicities whose women marry out more than they marry in.
  25. @Peter Frost
    Among U.S. born Asian Americans, the gender gap has widened considerably since 1980. This is because a higher percentage of them are Muslim Americans of South Asian or Southwest Asian heritage.

    Sorry Twinkie, I've got this wrong. The gender gap has widened because Asian American men have become less likely to out-marry since 1980. So it can't be because the "Asian" category is becoming more Muslim.

    I still don't think it's because Asian Americans are becoming less assimilated. That factor doesn't seem to deter the women. A more likely factor is the wife shortage in the white American population. That was just starting in 1980, and it didn't become serious until the 1990s (when large numbers of male baby boomers were divorcing and remarrying with younger wives from the baby bust generation).

    This is Asian demographics per county

    Currently

    Asians in America by Pew Research and AAPI data

    Indians
    65% Democrat, 18% Republican – 2012
    66% Democrat, 22% Republican – 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 28% Pro-Trump – 2020
    Pro Tulsi Gabbard
    42-60% oppose affirmative action
    49% Big Gov, 40% Small Gov
    68% Registering, 62% voting
    Have the least sex
    Concerned with bullying
    Environmentalist

    Japanese
    54% Democrat, 29% Republican – 2012
    64% Democrat, 10% Republican – 2018
    72% Anti-Trump, 14% Pro-Trump – 2020
    43% Small Gov, 41% Big Gov
    67% Registering, 62% voting
    Most anti Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn’t exist

    Chinese
    49% Democrat, 26% Republican – 2012
    46% Democrat, 22% Republican – 2018
    70% Anti-Trump, 24% Pro-Trump – 2020
    60-70% oppose affirmative action, was at 78% support affirmative action a few years ago
    50% Big-Gov, 39% Small Gov
    48% registering, 41% voting
    Most Pro Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn’t exist

    Korean
    48% Democrat, 32% Republican – 2012
    68% Democrat, 24% Republican – 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 32% Pro-Trump – 2020
    68% Big Gov, 26% Small Gov
    26-28% oppose affirmative action
    55% Registered, 46% voting

    Filipino
    43% Democrat, 40% Republican – 2012
    40% Democrat, 40% Republican – 2018
    51% Pro-Trump, 49% Anti-Trump – 2020
    58% Big Gov. 36% Small Gov
    46-48% oppose affirmative action
    59% Registered, 50% voting
    Have the most sex

    Vietnamese
    36% Democrat, 35% Republican – 2012
    46% Republican, 32% Democrat – 2018
    64% Pro-Trump, 32% Anti-Trump – 2020
    69% Big Gov, 22% Small Gov
    44%-46% oppose affirmative action
    56% Registered, 46% voting
    Least into the environment

    • Replies: @songbird
    Those Vietnamese numbers are interesting. I was under the impression that they were somewhat like Cubans. Those who fled favor Republicans. The youth cohorts don't. Of course, I think Trump's anti-China rhetoric may bias the results some.
    , @Bliss
    Ranking the asian ethnics by how much they hate Trump:

    Japanese....72% anti-Trump
    Chinese......70%
    Koreans......66%
    Indians.......66%
    Filipinos.....49%
    Vietnamese 32%
    , @Bliss
    Ranking asian-american ethnics by their support for Big Government (a signature issue for Republicans: they hate it with a passion):

    Vietnamese....69% in favor of Big Govt
    Koreans..........68%
    Filipinos.........58%
    Chinese...........50%
    Indians............49%
    Japanese.........41%
  26. @Twinkie

    That’s only part of the story, though, because there are legions of sexless Japanese men in 99+% Japan today.
     
    Have you considered the possibility that they might be more honest in answering such a question than their American counterparts?

    In personally sensitive subjects such as sex, I suspect there is a greater gap between revealed and stated preferences in the U.S., which is amply demonstrated by the abortion question.

    Have you considered the possibility that they might be more honest in answering such a question than their American counterparts?

    Percentages of men up to the age of 40 who have [admitted to having] not had sex at all over the course of the previous year

    In personally sensitive subjects such as sex, I suspect there is a greater gap between revealed and stated preferences in the U.S.

    …and in the male population. Anywhere.

    Except monasteries and rectories. And penitentiaries.

    Men lie up. Women lie down.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Women lie down.

    Women lie down about lying down?
  27. @Twinkie

    So it can’t be because the “Asian” category is becoming more Muslim.
     
    By the way, Muslims are a tiny fraction of the Asians population in America.

    What’s changing is that the Asian population in America is becoming much less Japanese and Korean and much more Indian - very rapidly.

    By the way, Muslims are a tiny fraction of the Asians population in America.

    East Asian. They have to come from Asia or Africa.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    East Asian. They have to come from Asia or Africa.
     
    Asian, as the US Census defines the term.

    Malays and Indonesians are rare in the US. Indian Muslims are it and they are still a small fraction. I went over this a while back: http://www.unz.com/anepigone/deportation-nation/#comment-3066125

    There are roughly 15 million Asians in America (per 2010 Census). The big ones are:

    Chinese 3.5 million
    Indian 3 million* (50% Indian [Hindu], 18% Christian, and 10% Muslim per Pew)
    Filipino 2.6 million (a tiny insignificant minority Muslim)
    Vietnamese 1.6 million
    Korean 1.5 million
    Japanese 0.8 million

    That’s roughly 13 million (minus 0.3 million Indian Muslims) out of 15 million total.

    Those who are identifiably from Muslim countries are:

    Bangladeshi 0.14 million
    Indonesian 0.06 million
    Malaysian 0.02 million
    Pakistani 0.38 million

    That’s only 0.6 million out of 15 million (and that’s assuming the Indonesians and Malaysians are not ethnic Chinese who are likely disproportionately represented among immigrants). Add the 0.3 million Indian Muslims, we have 0.9 million Muslims among Asians in America, about 6% of the total.
     
  28. Lot says:

    Using intermarriage rates for asians understates the sex ratio because Asian men are less likely to be married at all.

    A trend I’m seeing is US born educated NE Asian women adopting the excessive expectations of white American women and staying single well past 30. By contrast productive marriages with multiple children with white men is now more of a SE Asian thing.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Yes, NE Asian women have attained the loathsome smugness of their white counterparts by now.
    , @Rosie

    A trend I’m seeing is US born educated NE Asian women adopting the excessive expectations of white American women and staying single well past 30.
     
    I'm still waiting to see the evidence of these "excessive expectations."
  29. @Twinkie
    Keep in mind that there is a pretty wide class gap between Asian-white pairings and black-white pairings. In particular, black male-white female couples are economically downscale.

    Keep in mind that there is a pretty wide class gap between Asian-white pairings and black-white pairings. In particular, black male-white female couples are economically downscale.

    This might be less pronounced in areas, e.g. the Twin Cities, Green Bay, Wausau, Fresno, where a significant, even majority, of the East Asian population is South-East Asian. I.e., Hmong, Cambodian, Lao.

    We had a neighbor family in which the Vietnamese mother spoke poor English. As did her white American husband… though in a different sense! Our young mom next-door neighbor spoke no English. Her aged husband (both Vietnamese) could, but just barely.

    These people are low on the class ladder. (The latter couple’s kids won’t stay there.)

    Vietnamese are a cut or two above the rest of the Indochinese immigrant population. You can imagine how more pronounced this kind of thing must be among the rest.

  30. @Lot
    Using intermarriage rates for asians understates the sex ratio because Asian men are less likely to be married at all.

    A trend I’m seeing is US born educated NE Asian women adopting the excessive expectations of white American women and staying single well past 30. By contrast productive marriages with multiple children with white men is now more of a SE Asian thing.

    Yes, NE Asian women have attained the loathsome smugness of their white counterparts by now.

  31. My guess is that virgins or incels in their 20s and 30s are much more common than is reported.

  32. What is wrong with the term “orientals” to refer to Japanese-Korean-Chinese and SE ASians? Using the broad term “Asian” is asinine because Indians are completely different from orientals.

    Stop the PC nonsense, it confuses the data.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Wency
    Yeah, no one has ever explained this to me. I once had a liberal girlfriend who admonished me for the term, but could never tell me what was offensive about it. The best they can do is say it's Eurocentric to imply Asia is to the East, yet no one objects to terms like Middle East or Far East (and in any case, for Americans, East Asia is to the West.) And of course, "Asia" itself is a word of European origin.

    All I can really figure is that the left likes to consolidate nonwhite groups. If they could, they'd abolish the term "Asians" and just group them together as "POCs". But until then, they'd like if we call everyone from Kazakhs to Japanese "Asian", rather than subdivide them in opposition to one another.

    "NE Asian" is still a more precise term than "oriental" though, which could reasonably extend to peoples as far southwest as Burma.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    Stop the PC nonsense, it confuses the data.
     
    Right on, Clemson Tiger! You are preaching to the deacon here - I don't care if I have to put this link in daily - Oriental is the term and we're done talkin' about it.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    I understand the sentiment, but we use what we have available to us. How to I classify "other Asian" from a survey, for example? I don't know. They could be Mongolian or Sri Lankan--no way to tell from the data as recorded.
  33. @Rosie

    Marriage is not simply a product of desires or wishes. It’s also a product of opportunities.
     
    Yep.


    https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2013/11/27/ethnic-preferences2_custom-2bcc84fb38b5ab6f7b614f933449fe2421d0eefd-s800-c85.png

    This confirms something that I’ve suspected for awhile: that the relative dearth of white male, black female couples is due to a lack of interest on both sides.

  34. @Twinkie

    white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least. That’s only part of the story...
     
    Yes to the last sentence, but not in the way you meant. See: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    Among Asian newlyweds, these gender differences exist for both immigrants (15% men, 31% women) and the U.S. born (38% men, 54% women). While the gender gap among Asian immigrants has remained relatively stable, the gap among the U.S. born has widened substantially since 1980, when intermarriage stood at 46% among newlywed Asian men and 49% among newlywed Asian women.
     
    The statistics you describe is not so much about the lack of "dating privilege" for Asian men as the low tendency of foreign-born Asian men to out-marry. That could be because of their low "market value," but it could be also because of cultural preference for in-marriage - in the old countries, sons inherited the family legacy and daughters did not, which means the sons marrying in-group is much more strongly preferred (which was certainly the case in my family).

    In addition, in the older married cohorts, there is a much higher proportion of marriages of American military men (including many whites) marrying foreign-born Asian women and bringing them to the United States. That proportion declines pretty dramatically in the younger cohorts, in which Asian intermarriages are much more assortative.

    What's more interesting from the Pew data is that at one time (in 1980), for Asians - both men and women - out-marriage was nearly equally high 46% for men and 49% among women, but with the increased foreign-born population through immigration those proportions are falling. This does not bode well for assimilation and is yet another reason to curtail immigration from Asia.

    I knew your was going to be the first comment, Homie! I set the personal odds at 5:1.

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    Twinkie is on the job! Personally,the white-asian combo is boring and I don't care much about it.

    Mainly I want to see white men and women get together!
  35. couple of comments:

    never marrieds are particularly high in percentage of non-sex for the amount of sexual stimuli and decadence present in the culture. and there are more non-marrieds overall. this was an outcome of the liberalization, it was supposed to prevent men from raping by giving them porn – but is now perhaps atrophying them? legalizing hookers would be an improvement, except it can turn to Weimar. also, perhaps back home i saw too many Latins, of the browner composition usually but also some whites, addicted to the whorehouses as much as some to gambling. and also, the quality is not always good, obviously the rich get the nicer ones; perhaps rich indie escorts in America do not want unionization either. furthermore, it is pointless if normal women are told that being a slut is okay. prostitutes should be a highly regulated exception, their practice a perennial vice.

    two, speaking of Latins, they are also a middling category. Latin women are seen as a second class white woman for the other races that can have one. fertile and relatively submissive, and with perhaps the most popular body type, but also with outbursts of anger from those of even few brown genes, and generally too close to her family for white men to enjoy permanently (the amount of ridic cliquishness among Hispanic women can be seen in the ridiculousness of the heavily woman-oriented Latin TV). then again, not all white men can get Asians or whites; but not many will get to meet pale Brazilians either. then again, if more mulatto/black the Latina, value decreases, perhaps not as much as black woman (though Rican/Cuban/Miamian women, they can get close). Latin men meanwhile get the short end; though they are usually held as sexual fantasies by white/Asian women (generally the sluttier ones) and nicer minority women, they are not usually trusted with marriage. they do have a tradition of cheating, or at least posing as such.

    ps. Muslims perhaps a similar description to Hispanics but a step below; Muslim women get some points if pretty and veil-less, and they tend to be the most submissive of all; but, they don’t always look pretty or veil-less, which would explain enough degree of zeal among them that is also a turn off to the more wordly other races. the uglier are the men, which is why they are both more zealous and masculinist (perhaps white men could get a little rougher, specifically younger ones currently being raised in salads mommy saw on oprah and adhd meds). Hindus probably are the ugliest people competing with blacks on the sex market, although black men have an obvious advantage if for casual sex purposes mostly (as is pushed currently in porn), while instead black women may be even lower in being desired than Hindu women of the higher castes…

    thanks AE, your graphs confirm even anecdotal dating app experience.

    pps. speaking of the porn industry, the names in it, their aesthetics, and looking at the graph, it makes sense.

  36. I do wonder about the average attractiveness of the white females that black males impress, when you take out celebrity examples.

    Could be that many of these are “leftover women”, as the Chinese would say, of many of their women who date white foreigners.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    White woman apologists badly want to believe this (and it may have been largely true in the past), but it’s simply not the case today, and part and parcel of the general state of denial I see in conservatives. Just look around you — if you open your eyes, you can’t avoid seeing the open cultural sewer we’re standing in.
    , @Sam Coulton
    This is a way of blowing off steam, whether uttered by White men or Asian men. Multiple studies confirm that interracial couples are more attractive than intraracial couples, this link concerns one of them:

    https://www.psypost.org/2015/07/study-finds-interracial-daters-in-college-are-more-physically-attractive-3597

    As for China's 'leftover women': The term "leftover woman" in China designates a woman in her 30s who hasn't married or had children, often upper middle class and educated -- and typically highly attractive. These are the most likely to marry foreigners or to emigrate to Western countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheng_nu#Culture_and_statistics

    China has no "leftover women" in the sense of what you think that phrase means. China likely has a massive sex imbalance in the lower classes and has imported millions of women from North Korea, Siberia, southeast Asia and African countries to compensate for years of sex-selective adoption and abortion.
    , @Rosie

    I do wonder about the average attractiveness of the white females that black males impress, when you take out celebrity examples.
     
    Given White men's preference for Asian women, some White women are going to be left ou unless they are willing to date black men.

    Simple mathematics.
  37. @Oblivionrecurs
    This is Asian demographics per county

    http://magaimg.net/img/86u5.jpg


    Currently

    Asians in America by Pew Research and AAPI data

    Indians
    65% Democrat, 18% Republican - 2012
    66% Democrat, 22% Republican - 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 28% Pro-Trump - 2020
    Pro Tulsi Gabbard
    42-60% oppose affirmative action
    49% Big Gov, 40% Small Gov
    68% Registering, 62% voting
    Have the least sex
    Concerned with bullying
    Environmentalist

    Japanese
    54% Democrat, 29% Republican - 2012
    64% Democrat, 10% Republican - 2018
    72% Anti-Trump, 14% Pro-Trump - 2020
    43% Small Gov, 41% Big Gov
    67% Registering, 62% voting
    Most anti Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn't exist

    Chinese
    49% Democrat, 26% Republican - 2012
    46% Democrat, 22% Republican - 2018
    70% Anti-Trump, 24% Pro-Trump - 2020
    60-70% oppose affirmative action, was at 78% support affirmative action a few years ago
    50% Big-Gov, 39% Small Gov
    48% registering, 41% voting
    Most Pro Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn't exist

    Korean
    48% Democrat, 32% Republican - 2012
    68% Democrat, 24% Republican - 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 32% Pro-Trump - 2020
    68% Big Gov, 26% Small Gov
    26-28% oppose affirmative action
    55% Registered, 46% voting

    Filipino
    43% Democrat, 40% Republican - 2012
    40% Democrat, 40% Republican - 2018
    51% Pro-Trump, 49% Anti-Trump - 2020
    58% Big Gov. 36% Small Gov
    46-48% oppose affirmative action
    59% Registered, 50% voting
    Have the most sex

    Vietnamese
    36% Democrat, 35% Republican - 2012
    46% Republican, 32% Democrat - 2018
    64% Pro-Trump, 32% Anti-Trump - 2020
    69% Big Gov, 22% Small Gov
    44%-46% oppose affirmative action
    56% Registered, 46% voting
    Least into the environment

    Those Vietnamese numbers are interesting. I was under the impression that they were somewhat like Cubans. Those who fled favor Republicans. The youth cohorts don’t. Of course, I think Trump’s anti-China rhetoric may bias the results some.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude

    I think Trump’s anti-China rhetoric may bias the results some
     
    And boy oh boy do the Viets hate the Chinese.....remember this nice pretty Vietnamese girl at this one seminar I went to a long time ago....we talked with each other...very fluent in English...and naturally I asked about the CHinese and their own thoughts on the matter...she just switched into this gear..and she started telling me about how they are like the Devil incarnate or something and how they are evil and bad with this raging fanaticism(raging as in intense not loud shouting, fist banging on the table stuff).. Was really interesting. Ran into her a week ago at Costco, and we still talked a lot. I see why, but it was really interesting to see
  38. @songbird
    I do wonder about the average attractiveness of the white females that black males impress, when you take out celebrity examples.

    Could be that many of these are "leftover women", as the Chinese would say, of many of their women who date white foreigners.

    White woman apologists badly want to believe this (and it may have been largely true in the past), but it’s simply not the case today, and part and parcel of the general state of denial I see in conservatives. Just look around you — if you open your eyes, you can’t avoid seeing the open cultural sewer we’re standing in.

  39. @Reg Cæsar

    Have you considered the possibility that they might be more honest in answering such a question than their American counterparts?
     
    Percentages of men up to the age of 40 who have [admitted to having] not had sex at all over the course of the previous year

    In personally sensitive subjects such as sex, I suspect there is a greater gap between revealed and stated preferences in the U.S.
     
    ...and in the male population. Anywhere.

    Except monasteries and rectories. And penitentiaries.

    Men lie up. Women lie down.

    Women lie down.

    Women lie down about lying down?

  40. @songbird
    I do wonder about the average attractiveness of the white females that black males impress, when you take out celebrity examples.

    Could be that many of these are "leftover women", as the Chinese would say, of many of their women who date white foreigners.

    This is a way of blowing off steam, whether uttered by White men or Asian men. Multiple studies confirm that interracial couples are more attractive than intraracial couples, this link concerns one of them:

    https://www.psypost.org/2015/07/study-finds-interracial-daters-in-college-are-more-physically-attractive-3597

    As for China’s ‘leftover women’: The term “leftover woman” in China designates a woman in her 30s who hasn’t married or had children, often upper middle class and educated — and typically highly attractive. These are the most likely to marry foreigners or to emigrate to Western countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheng_nu#Culture_and_statistics

    China has no “leftover women” in the sense of what you think that phrase means. China likely has a massive sex imbalance in the lower classes and has imported millions of women from North Korea, Siberia, southeast Asia and African countries to compensate for years of sex-selective adoption and abortion.

    • Replies: @songbird

    Multiple studies confirm that interracial couples are more attractive than intraracial couples
     
    I only recall having known one black-white couple. Black girl/white guy - both ugly (looks AND personality) from my perspective. I honestly can't even recall seeing another one on the street, but I probably don't get around much.

    Could be true of Asians and whites. I have seen attractive pairings.

    China has no “leftover women” in the sense of what you think that phrase means.
     
    It's not an absolute term. A divorced woman, with no children, in her early 30s, who looks good in a bikini and has a good personality, could probably find a new Chinese husband. Point is she is not as desirable. Filial piety is a consideration in China, and the parents are looking for certain characteristics.
    , @anon
    >Multiple studies confirm that interracial couples are more attractive than intraracial couples

    Do you have more studies showing that?
  41. @AaronB

    Black male/white female pairings are three times as frequent as white male/black female pairings, while white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least.
     
    That obviously is bad logic.

    1) Whites three time as frequent pairings with Asians cancels out black three times as frequent pairings with white women - which is obviously a consequence of the relative unattractiveness of black women, anyways. Which actually means the white advantage with Asians dwarfs the black advantage with whites, which isn't even real on second look.

    And then the actual numbers, not just the ratios, are the significant factors here.

    Its well known whites have the greatest dating advantage in the US.

    Really bad logic, AE -I'm shocked at you! You're not stupid, but this was....

    But I forgive you - as a white HBDer, distorting data in favor of blacks in the sexual realm, and of Jews and Asians in the intellectual , are in your DNA :) Just another symptom of late Western decline...

    That’s only part of the story, though, because there are legions of sexless Japanese men in 99+% Japan today.
     
    Complete and total myth.

    Prostitution is enormous and widespread and fully accepted in Japan, and everyone uses it.

    Japanese have available to them all the sex they could possibly desire, and more.

    Now relationships, that's another matter...

    But I forgive you – as a white HBDer, distorting data in favor of blacks in the sexual realm, and of Jews and Asians in the intellectual , are in your DNA 🙂 Just another symptom of late Western decline…

    It’s the manosphere influence. Their whole schtick depends on the notion that White women prefer thuggish “alphas” (read: black men) Evidence to the contrary is ignored.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I am not part of any of the manosphere websites, though I would happily join any cause like the MRA that support justice in family law. I don't like to see men treated like the slaves of yesteryear by family courts and the highly-screwed-up American "justice system".

    That aside, cause it was not the point, I think you get this wrong. The Alpha/Beta/Gamma business has lots of truth to it, but no, it doesn't explain everything, and not all women like the same thing in men. Some even have a little integrity, but its in short supply. The thing about them liking black men so much, nah! The big fat white tattooed chicks have no choice possibly, but .. oh, they could slim down, I forgot about that. I also think some of them want to "stick it" to the family by dating black men. Anyway, alphas don't equal black men from the bit I've read.

    What those manosphere sites (the Heartistes, etc) do for some men, even if they don't want to be totally dishonest (often the way to a woman's heart body), is to show some confidence that they don't yet really have. I suppose you could say that's a little dishonest, but confidence is an emotion, so ...

    I truly would have been better off learning some of that stuff had I'd read more or talked to the right people. I will teach my boy that "no" does not necessarily mean "no" and a lot of other things about women's innate compulsion to lie, so that he can get laid more easily. It's very important that he not expect women to be "men of their word", though I teach him to be a man of his word. It just doesn't work the same, and he needs to understand that while still young.

    A big problem is that women want to think that men want what the women want them to want. It doesn't work that way. Men want women with very obvious curves. That is job 1. We know what we want, and all the tweets in the world about fat women rocking and such don't change the truth.

    Your big argument against this post will be your emotion coming out to tell me that "no, it's NOT this way" because you DON'T WANT IT TO BE THIS WAY. You have been exhibit A as a teaching tool in the comments here, and I appreciate that a lot. I seek truth, and I will teach my son to seek truth. I'm sorry the truth upsets you so much, Rosie.

  42. @songbird
    I do wonder about the average attractiveness of the white females that black males impress, when you take out celebrity examples.

    Could be that many of these are "leftover women", as the Chinese would say, of many of their women who date white foreigners.

    I do wonder about the average attractiveness of the white females that black males impress, when you take out celebrity examples.

    Given White men’s preference for Asian women, some White women are going to be left ou unless they are willing to date black men.

    Simple mathematics.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I don't know if it is really zero sum. There are so many singles on the sidelines.
    , @Mark G.
    Rosie, if white men marry Asian women then white women don't have to marry black men. White women could marry Asian men. It's probably a good thing, though, you didn't marry Twinkie considering how you two get along. The ones really left out are black women. Not only is it the case that only black men are potentially interested in them but they also have to contend with the problem that many black men are in prison, which takes them out of the dating pool.
  43. @Lot
    Using intermarriage rates for asians understates the sex ratio because Asian men are less likely to be married at all.

    A trend I’m seeing is US born educated NE Asian women adopting the excessive expectations of white American women and staying single well past 30. By contrast productive marriages with multiple children with white men is now more of a SE Asian thing.

    A trend I’m seeing is US born educated NE Asian women adopting the excessive expectations of white American women and staying single well past 30.

    I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.”

    • Replies: @Lot
    “I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.”

    Rapidly increasing average age of marriage and first birth for white American women.

    The basic problem is young women in large metros are more numerous than young men, have slightly higher incomes, and more than slightly higher educational credentials. Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    It must be easy to wait when you're delusional.
    , @Days of Broken Arrows
    "I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.”"

    Then do what author Nora Vincent did, except do it in the digital realm. Get on a dating site and pretend you're a man. See what it's like from the other side.

    But...you have to pretend you're an average man with an average salary, average job, average height, and average looks. And you have to have graduated from a state school. No fancy cars or houses either -- just average stuff.

    Right off the bat, a middling salary and height below 6' will rule you out with a large number of women. They screen/filter out these factors in their dating profiles. You can contact them, but you won't appear in their searches. So right there you're at a loss.

    Going in from the point of these disadvantages, you then have to maintain a sense of humor and good cheer and have a thick skin when it comes to rejection. Most men expect to get rejected by the California blonde. But in this world, you're gonna be getting rejected by overweight women and single mothers, so be prepared.

    After all this,, come back and tell us about the expectations of the women you encounter. If I remember correctly, Nora Vincent needed mental health help after living in the real world as a man for a short time. Let us know how you hold up mentally in the digital one.
  44. @SFG
    The AMWF-WMAF difference is pretty small, though. What's interesting is that Asian-white couples make more money than either white or Asian couples, which I'd guess seems to reflect elite interbreeding--Zuckerberg and the Tiger Mom are the most famous cases but you see a lot of those couples in the nicer parts of many big cities.

    Money's more important than racial purity when there's money involved--I wonder if the alimony laws have anything to do with it?

    I think geography plays a big role. Only a conjecture, but I think most WM AF and AM WF marriages will take place in urban regions with higher salaries (offset by expensive housing). WM-WF marriages will be distributed around the country. And assuming Asian Americans intermarry at a higher rates, most mixed marriages will consist of two Americans. I think the AM AF income is lower because the percentage of immigrants in that group is much higher.

  45. Lot says:
    @Rosie

    A trend I’m seeing is US born educated NE Asian women adopting the excessive expectations of white American women and staying single well past 30.
     
    I'm still waiting to see the evidence of these "excessive expectations."

    “I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.”

    Rapidly increasing average age of marriage and first birth for white American women.

    The basic problem is young women in large metros are more numerous than young men, have slightly higher incomes, and more than slightly higher educational credentials. Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.
     
    Still no evidence.

    https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/newfigure1wang-w640.png

    (See what I mean about data being ignored?)

    , @Anonymous
    That's a good point. Peter Frost has mentioned how the overall male to female ratio is greater now. However, as you indicate, there are now more women in college than men, and young women concentrate in large cities with fewer men and even earn more than men. Thus the effective ratio of marriageable men to women is lower. When you hand out degrees and credentials to women and give them higher paying jobs, lower credentialed and lower earning men become much less appealing to women as prospective mates. If you try to introduce such men to young women, they will take it as an insult, like calling them ugly or something.
    , @Jay Fink
    Are you sure young women are more numerous than men in large metros? That is definitely not true in the Western U.S.
  46. @Sam Coulton
    This is a way of blowing off steam, whether uttered by White men or Asian men. Multiple studies confirm that interracial couples are more attractive than intraracial couples, this link concerns one of them:

    https://www.psypost.org/2015/07/study-finds-interracial-daters-in-college-are-more-physically-attractive-3597

    As for China's 'leftover women': The term "leftover woman" in China designates a woman in her 30s who hasn't married or had children, often upper middle class and educated -- and typically highly attractive. These are the most likely to marry foreigners or to emigrate to Western countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheng_nu#Culture_and_statistics

    China has no "leftover women" in the sense of what you think that phrase means. China likely has a massive sex imbalance in the lower classes and has imported millions of women from North Korea, Siberia, southeast Asia and African countries to compensate for years of sex-selective adoption and abortion.

    Multiple studies confirm that interracial couples are more attractive than intraracial couples

    I only recall having known one black-white couple. Black girl/white guy – both ugly (looks AND personality) from my perspective. I honestly can’t even recall seeing another one on the street, but I probably don’t get around much.

    Could be true of Asians and whites. I have seen attractive pairings.

    China has no “leftover women” in the sense of what you think that phrase means.

    It’s not an absolute term. A divorced woman, with no children, in her early 30s, who looks good in a bikini and has a good personality, could probably find a new Chinese husband. Point is she is not as desirable. Filial piety is a consideration in China, and the parents are looking for certain characteristics.

  47. @Rosie

    I do wonder about the average attractiveness of the white females that black males impress, when you take out celebrity examples.
     
    Given White men's preference for Asian women, some White women are going to be left ou unless they are willing to date black men.

    Simple mathematics.

    I don’t know if it is really zero sum. There are so many singles on the sidelines.

  48. @Rosie

    I do wonder about the average attractiveness of the white females that black males impress, when you take out celebrity examples.
     
    Given White men's preference for Asian women, some White women are going to be left ou unless they are willing to date black men.

    Simple mathematics.

    Rosie, if white men marry Asian women then white women don’t have to marry black men. White women could marry Asian men. It’s probably a good thing, though, you didn’t marry Twinkie considering how you two get along. The ones really left out are black women. Not only is it the case that only black men are potentially interested in them but they also have to contend with the problem that many black men are in prison, which takes them out of the dating pool.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    White women could marry Asian men.
     
    That would require them wanting to marry us. As you can see from the infographic I posted above, they prefer Latinas.
    , @Anonymous
    Yep and it's more common than you think in certain social circles.

    If you're a nerdy high IQ white woman, who is educated and has UMC parents, it's way more socially acceptable to marry a Jewish or Asian man than a black or Hispanic man.

    Social mores aside, there is absolutely no reason for a high IQ UMC white woman to even go near black or Hispanic men. But there is plenty of reason to look at Jewish and Asian men.

    White men have higher requirements for physical attrativeness. I've seen multiple white men marry white women who are slutty, have low IQs, or come from low status families if the woman is an 8 or higher.

    But Jewish and Asian men tend to have more similar marriage requirements as nerdy high IQ UMC white women do: facial unattractiveness is ok. no T&A is ok. But the spouse *must* be thin, have a high IQ, come from a family with a good reputation, be educated, have either significant income or wealth, and not be a slut.

    So if any white women are reading this: marry a Jewish or Asian man if you have every positive trait except for facial beauty and T&A. Jewish and Asian men care more about you having a high IQ, a low partner count (must be between 0-5), high status parents, a good alma mater, and familial wealth.
    , @Twinkie

    It’s probably a good thing, though, you didn’t marry Twinkie considering how you two get along.
     
    Judging by her comments, I get along much better with my wife than Rosie with her husband.

    And, sorry, but I wasn’t going to marry an unstable, promiscuous, and obese woman. My wife was a high level athlete in college (she was top 5 in the world at her peak) and went on to earn a STEM doctorate after we married. She’s very high energy (worked three jobs in high school, including on a farm) and doesn’t believe in whining. And her ex-partner count is zero (she comes from a very traditional and religious background in the rural Midwest).

    She also brought me back from a deep, dark depth after I came home badly hurt overseas. I thank God for giving me such a wife everyday.
  49. @Lot
    “I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.”

    Rapidly increasing average age of marriage and first birth for white American women.

    The basic problem is young women in large metros are more numerous than young men, have slightly higher incomes, and more than slightly higher educational credentials. Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.

    Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.

    Still no evidence.

    (See what I mean about data being ignored?)

    • Replies: @216
    Credentials may not be the same as income. Women still expect their husband to earn more.

    A public school teacher in many states is required to earn a masters degree (bureaucratic featherbedding), but isn't often paid anything more. (She) may have a blue-collar husband that makes more money.

    What we focus on is the experience of UMC professional class women, which are a small but vocal part of the population that influences the trends that others follow.
    , @Anonymous
    The Y-axis in your graph represents share of all married couples. It doesn't tell us about the overall marriage rate. In fact, the US marriage rate started hitting historic lows between 2010 and 2015, right around where the blue and yellow lines cross in your graph. That is, when the share of all marriages in which the husband is less educated than the wife hit record highs, marriage rates were hitting record lows. This is consistent with Lot's claim: fewer women are getting married as marriage is increasingly characterized as eloping with a less educated man.

    It's hard to tell exactly from your graph, but it looks like around 1980 was when you had the greatest share of marriages in which the husband was more educated than the wife. That was roughly the time, the early 80s, when marriages peaked in the US:

    https://rhiever.github.io/marriage-divorce-stats/marriages_divorces.html

    Education is a proxy for social status, prestige, income, etc., so this data suggests that if you want a society with high rates of monogamous marriage, then men on average have to have greater status than women. It's basically a form of sexual dimorphism that has to be maintained in order to make men acceptable mates to women. If you made the average man a foot shorter than the average woman, women's marriage and sexual interest in average men would drop significantly.
    , @jimmyriddle
    But the % of adults who are married has fallen.

    A larger % of women who marry are "marrying down", but fewer are marrying.
  50. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    “I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.”

    Rapidly increasing average age of marriage and first birth for white American women.

    The basic problem is young women in large metros are more numerous than young men, have slightly higher incomes, and more than slightly higher educational credentials. Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.

    That’s a good point. Peter Frost has mentioned how the overall male to female ratio is greater now. However, as you indicate, there are now more women in college than men, and young women concentrate in large cities with fewer men and even earn more than men. Thus the effective ratio of marriageable men to women is lower. When you hand out degrees and credentials to women and give them higher paying jobs, lower credentialed and lower earning men become much less appealing to women as prospective mates. If you try to introduce such men to young women, they will take it as an insult, like calling them ugly or something.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    This is overstated. Overcredentialed women may not marry undercredentialed men, but they get fucked by GED-holding chads all the time. Clearing the credential bar basically means you get to skip straight to the part that sucks (ie marriage), very possibly raising someone else’s offspring.
  51. @Mark G.
    Rosie, if white men marry Asian women then white women don't have to marry black men. White women could marry Asian men. It's probably a good thing, though, you didn't marry Twinkie considering how you two get along. The ones really left out are black women. Not only is it the case that only black men are potentially interested in them but they also have to contend with the problem that many black men are in prison, which takes them out of the dating pool.

    White women could marry Asian men.

    That would require them wanting to marry us. As you can see from the infographic I posted above, they prefer Latinas.

    • LOL: atlantis_dweller
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They do want to marry *some* white women.

    You have to remember, only white men care about facial beauty to the extreme. White men care about pretty face and T&A. Black/Hispanic men care mostly about T&A and high sex drive. Jewish/Asian men care about thinness, low partner count (should be between 0-5), IQ, family social class, education, and income/wealth.

    You need to be a thin, smart, chaste, educated, UMC white woman to attract a Jewish or Asian man. But it's ok to have an ugly face and no curves.
    , @Mark G.
    As you can see from the infographic you posted above, Asian men prefer Latinas but Latinas prefer white guys. So Asian men would be available for white women to marry. Right?
    , @Anon
    I imagine they prefer Latinas because of greater physical compatibility. Many Latinas are very short, even shorter than Asian women. Whereas Asian men and White women are similar in height. It's not uncommon for White women to be taller and weigh more than Asian men. This is also probably why White women prefer White and non-Asian, non-White men over Asian men.
    , @Twinkie

    As you can see from the infographic I posted above, they prefer Latinas.
     
    Actual intermarriage rates say not so. You should take numbers from an online dating website with a pinch of salt.
  52. @Twinkie

    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.
     
    I don’t know about that. Asian male-whites female couples have the highest average income.
    https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f3d4337eab8eaef54000042-480-712.jpg

    Where are the Jews in that graph?

    • Replies: @SFG
    Good luck getting that data--Jews are rarely broken out as a separate race outside of the alt-right. Still, given that outmarriage rates are at about 50%, and they're high-income, I'd guess a fairly large number of the white-Asian mixes are Jewish-Asian mixes. (Certainly some of the famous ones like Zuckerberg and 'Tiger Mom' Amy Chua are.) But that remains speculative.
  53. Anon[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Coulton
    The majority of people in America are white as of 2019, so it's expected that the majority of interracial relationships among nonwhite people will involve whites. And the data seem to reflect that, however, the "other" and "Hispanic" categories are proportionately vastly overrepresented in Asian interracial reltionships as compared with whites.

    This is particularly true for Laotian men who marry "Other" women more commonly than white women. Hmong men really buck the trend by marrying more black women than white women. Laotian and Japanese married women appear to be about as likely to be with a nonwhite-nonasian spouse as they are with a white. Filipino patterns are very balanced. I would say it's more like a modest majority of Asians are more likely to marry whites, but proportionately they tend to mix more with the "other-hispanic-black" legion. These are newlywed statistics from 2008-2016 so they don't represent the majority of American marriqges, and with few young Americans marrying, they don't necessarily reflect cohabit/date trends either.

    https://i.imgur.com/9cqeEFV.jpg

    Back-of-the-envelope-ing here, so please feel free to correct me.

    Pew reports for interracial marriage by type: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/pst_2017-05-15-intermarriage-01-00/

    These are reports for “newlyweds”, most of whom will be millenial; so from https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/07/biggest-share-of-whites-in-u-s-are-boomers-but-for-minority-groups-its-millennials-or-younger/ft_16-7-7-genage2/ and general fugures for US population of 61.3% white and 17.8% Hispanic there are about 2.8 times as many white as Hispanic millenials in the US (though the issue is confused by white and Hispanic not being exclusive). But there are five times as many white-Asian as Hispanic-Asian marriages in the US, so Asians are not showing a vastly preponderant preference for Hispanics as opposed to whites as marriage partners.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    But there are five times as many white-Asian as Hispanic-Asian marriages in the US, so Asians are not showing a vastly preponderant preference for Hispanics as opposed to whites as marriage partners.
     
    Correct.

    But I would not be surprised if Hispanic-Asian marriages are more common now than used to be the case. Nonetheless, it is a small fraction of the white-Asian marriages as you pointed out.

    Note that the Asians have the highest educational attainment among all races in the U.S. while the Hispanics have the lowest. That's not a match made in heaven and will always be a large barrier in intermarriages between the two groups, especially for "fancy" Asian.
  54. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark G.
    Rosie, if white men marry Asian women then white women don't have to marry black men. White women could marry Asian men. It's probably a good thing, though, you didn't marry Twinkie considering how you two get along. The ones really left out are black women. Not only is it the case that only black men are potentially interested in them but they also have to contend with the problem that many black men are in prison, which takes them out of the dating pool.

    Yep and it’s more common than you think in certain social circles.

    If you’re a nerdy high IQ white woman, who is educated and has UMC parents, it’s way more socially acceptable to marry a Jewish or Asian man than a black or Hispanic man.

    Social mores aside, there is absolutely no reason for a high IQ UMC white woman to even go near black or Hispanic men. But there is plenty of reason to look at Jewish and Asian men.

    White men have higher requirements for physical attrativeness. I’ve seen multiple white men marry white women who are slutty, have low IQs, or come from low status families if the woman is an 8 or higher.

    But Jewish and Asian men tend to have more similar marriage requirements as nerdy high IQ UMC white women do: facial unattractiveness is ok. no T&A is ok. But the spouse *must* be thin, have a high IQ, come from a family with a good reputation, be educated, have either significant income or wealth, and not be a slut.

    So if any white women are reading this: marry a Jewish or Asian man if you have every positive trait except for facial beauty and T&A. Jewish and Asian men care more about you having a high IQ, a low partner count (must be between 0-5), high status parents, a good alma mater, and familial wealth.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    But the spouse *must* be thin, have a high IQ, come from a family with a good reputation, be educated, have either significant income or wealth, and not be a slut.
     
    Those are class markers.
    , @Anon

    a low partner count (must be between 0-5)
     
    Is that how you determine what is a "slut"? Lol.
  55. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    White women could marry Asian men.
     
    That would require them wanting to marry us. As you can see from the infographic I posted above, they prefer Latinas.

    They do want to marry *some* white women.

    You have to remember, only white men care about facial beauty to the extreme. White men care about pretty face and T&A. Black/Hispanic men care mostly about T&A and high sex drive. Jewish/Asian men care about thinness, low partner count (should be between 0-5), IQ, family social class, education, and income/wealth.

    You need to be a thin, smart, chaste, educated, UMC white woman to attract a Jewish or Asian man. But it’s ok to have an ugly face and no curves.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Well this is an interesting hobby horse. Probably some truth to it though.
    , @Rosie

    They do want to marry *some* white women.
     
    Utterly beside the point. If the manosphere theories about women were true, Black men would have the highest response rates, not the lowest.

    You have to remember, only white men care about facial beauty to the extreme.
     


    know they do, and that's why I don't feel sorry for these fake incels who refuse to pursue women that are attainable for them.
  56. Black male/white female pairings are three times as frequent as white male/black female pairings

    If there were 0 WM/BF then there would be infinity more BM/WF. Or else a divide by 0 error, I’m not good at maths.

  57. @Rosie

    White women could marry Asian men.
     
    That would require them wanting to marry us. As you can see from the infographic I posted above, they prefer Latinas.

    As you can see from the infographic you posted above, Asian men prefer Latinas but Latinas prefer white guys. So Asian men would be available for white women to marry. Right?

    • Replies: @Rosie

    So Asian men would be available for white women to marry. Right?
     
    Yes, if they were interested, which they're usually not. Remember, we're already not talking about the most eligible bachelorettes on the market.
  58. @Rosie

    A trend I’m seeing is US born educated NE Asian women adopting the excessive expectations of white American women and staying single well past 30.
     
    I'm still waiting to see the evidence of these "excessive expectations."

    It must be easy to wait when you’re delusional.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    It must be easy to wait when you’re delusional.
     
    IOW, you have no evidence.
  59. @Twinkie
    Another thing I find a bit odd about the data is that 99% of married people had sex at least once in the past year. And Asians have the highest marriage rates (and the lowest divorce rates):

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4850739/bin/nihms777225f1.jpg

    Something doesn't jive well with the data (although there is, of course, a possibility that the non-married Asians are particularly prone to "no sex last year" category).

    I see what you mean – if 90% of Asians are married (though by what age? the graph doesn’t say) and only 1% of married men are incels, does not compute. Even if the 90% figure was 100% of females and 80% of males.

    I find it hard to imagine that even 1% of married men are incels, unless they or their wives are ill, they live apart, or they’re in the process of divorcing. And sad to see that incels, who have enough of a problem as it is, are now considered to be a threat to the most powerful air force on earth. Talk about kicking a man when he’s down.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    As though my opinion of that joke organization couldn’t sink any lower. Of course, they could end the “threat” tomorrow by permitting prostitution, but of course not because muh trafficking.
    , @Twinkie
    Yup. People around here opine a lot based on very limited or undifferentiated data (or worse, anecdotes). You get different views when to break down the numbers.

    I think the age was “By 40.”
    , @Anon

    Talk about kicking a man when he’s down.
     
    Know of a more common instinct? There's energy to release through aggression, what other choice than the weakest in the room would be an equally smart choice?
  60. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    It must be easy to wait when you're delusional.

    It must be easy to wait when you’re delusional.

    IOW, you have no evidence.

  61. @Mark G.
    As you can see from the infographic you posted above, Asian men prefer Latinas but Latinas prefer white guys. So Asian men would be available for white women to marry. Right?

    So Asian men would be available for white women to marry. Right?

    Yes, if they were interested, which they’re usually not. Remember, we’re already not talking about the most eligible bachelorettes on the market.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    I think you underestimate the desirability of white females to Asian guys. I see more situations of Asian guys trying to be friendly with white girls and white girls not being friendly back rather than vice versa. There was the Elliot Rodgers situation a few years back where an Asian guy went on a shooting spree after the white girls in his high school that he wanted snubbed him. Do you know a lot of white females who complain about how they just can't get those Asian guys to notice them? I don't. You commented above that it's a manosphere myth that white women are interested in ghetto black guys. So if women aren't interested in black guys then Asian guys who are interested in them seem a good alternative.
  62. @Jim Christian
    Where are the Jews in that graph?

    Good luck getting that data–Jews are rarely broken out as a separate race outside of the alt-right. Still, given that outmarriage rates are at about 50%, and they’re high-income, I’d guess a fairly large number of the white-Asian mixes are Jewish-Asian mixes. (Certainly some of the famous ones like Zuckerberg and ‘Tiger Mom’ Amy Chua are.) But that remains speculative.

  63. @Twinkie

    elite interbreeding
     
    You are talking about my wife and me, in both cognitive and financial terms. We built the financial part together though - ours was a “startup” marriage, as we were in our early 20’s (met at an Ivy).

    Kudos, man.

    It *is* funny how the upper middle and upper classes are basically practicing eugenics, though of course most of them would be horrified at the thought.

  64. Anon[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    White women could marry Asian men.
     
    That would require them wanting to marry us. As you can see from the infographic I posted above, they prefer Latinas.

    I imagine they prefer Latinas because of greater physical compatibility. Many Latinas are very short, even shorter than Asian women. Whereas Asian men and White women are similar in height. It’s not uncommon for White women to be taller and weigh more than Asian men. This is also probably why White women prefer White and non-Asian, non-White men over Asian men.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Whereas Asian men and White women are similar in height.
     
    Average Korean male height among the younger generation is 5’8.5”(the US non-Hispanic white average is 5’9.5”). Average American white female height is 5’4.5” (Koreans are the tallest men in Asia, and have experienced a massive height gain in the past 30 years). So, by your logic, it’s not surprising that among American-born Asians, Koreans (both males and females) have the highest intermarriage rates with whites. It also helps that 70-80% of Koreans in America are Christians.

    By the way, I’m 6’2” and my white wife is 5’9”.

    It’s not uncommon for White women to... weigh more than Asian men.
     
    Obesity rates are much higher among whites than Asians, esp. among women.
  65. @Rosie

    So Asian men would be available for white women to marry. Right?
     
    Yes, if they were interested, which they're usually not. Remember, we're already not talking about the most eligible bachelorettes on the market.

    I think you underestimate the desirability of white females to Asian guys. I see more situations of Asian guys trying to be friendly with white girls and white girls not being friendly back rather than vice versa. There was the Elliot Rodgers situation a few years back where an Asian guy went on a shooting spree after the white girls in his high school that he wanted snubbed him. Do you know a lot of white females who complain about how they just can’t get those Asian guys to notice them? I don’t. You commented above that it’s a manosphere myth that white women are interested in ghetto black guys. So if women aren’t interested in black guys then Asian guys who are interested in them seem a good alternative.

    • Replies: @216
    In my experience, its less common for Asian males in the US to be as active in sports in HS. This carries over to university and adulthood. They also tend to be the most urbanized group.

    So in manosphere terminology, Asian-American males follow the beta strategy; which less successful in a post-industrial society dominated by a FIRE bubble. No matter how hard Mr. Beta works, he can't signal provider status until his 30s, especially in a coastal city. To the traditional "fob" group, a spouse can be imported from the Old Country.

    E. Rodger was mixed, as was another incel attacker at a lesser known killing in Oregon.

    ---
    Put it another way: Who probably appears more cringe-worthy? FrancoOntarian or BengaliCanadian
    , @Anon
    Most frequently, women believe they are most interested in what they want least, and viceversa, this being the case both as to physical, and character, features.

    I won't go on on why it is so, though. Anybody interested in noticing average psychological differences between the sexes only has to observe on his own lonesome, or search for the rare high-quality bias-free material on the internet (such as the "Treatise of Love").
    , @Rosie

    I see more situations of Asian guys trying to be friendly with white girls and white girls not being friendly back rather than vice versa.
     
    Look. Your casual personal observations are not evidence.

    The simple fact is that black men are the least desirable group to ALL groups of women except black women. Eventually, you're going to have to let go 9f the unsupported manosphere myths, however hard that might be on your ego.
  66. @Lot
    “I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.”

    Rapidly increasing average age of marriage and first birth for white American women.

    The basic problem is young women in large metros are more numerous than young men, have slightly higher incomes, and more than slightly higher educational credentials. Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.

    Are you sure young women are more numerous than men in large metros? That is definitely not true in the Western U.S.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Sorry, among native born whites.
  67. @Rosie

    A trend I’m seeing is US born educated NE Asian women adopting the excessive expectations of white American women and staying single well past 30.
     
    I'm still waiting to see the evidence of these "excessive expectations."

    “I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.””

    Then do what author Nora Vincent did, except do it in the digital realm. Get on a dating site and pretend you’re a man. See what it’s like from the other side.

    But…you have to pretend you’re an average man with an average salary, average job, average height, and average looks. And you have to have graduated from a state school. No fancy cars or houses either — just average stuff.

    Right off the bat, a middling salary and height below 6′ will rule you out with a large number of women. They screen/filter out these factors in their dating profiles. You can contact them, but you won’t appear in their searches. So right there you’re at a loss.

    Going in from the point of these disadvantages, you then have to maintain a sense of humor and good cheer and have a thick skin when it comes to rejection. Most men expect to get rejected by the California blonde. But in this world, you’re gonna be getting rejected by overweight women and single mothers, so be prepared.

    After all this,, come back and tell us about the expectations of the women you encounter. If I remember correctly, Nora Vincent needed mental health help after living in the real world as a man for a short time. Let us know how you hold up mentally in the digital one.

    • Agree: L Woods
    • Replies: @Anon
    Online dating apps, with the illusion of infinite choice they give, and their inevitably tendency to showcase other-sex showpieces have gotten females' inborn narcissism and hypergamy out of whack (even getting an other-sex showpiece's attention is more about ego validation than any genuine affection, of course).

    What's more, due to their behaviour (always select flattery and dishonesty over honesty, which can never be flattering, or as flattering as dishonesty; always turn down anybody who shows any genuine emotions), they have turned online dating into a psychological grinder for men, to the effect that the type of male they believe they are in search of ("honest" and "loving") is the least likely to be found because it is the least likely to be able to stand the mind-grinding.

    It's not unlike politics — where people believe they are saddened by politicians' "corruption", blissfully unaware that no-one who would not be "corrupt" really has a chance to earn their liking.
    , @Rosie

    Then do what author Nora Vincent did, except do it in the digital realm. Get on a dating site and pretend you’re a man. See what it’s like from the other side.
     
    I could say the same to you. Pretend you're a "fat girl" and see how much luck you have.
  68. @YetAnotherAnon
    I see what you mean - if 90% of Asians are married (though by what age? the graph doesn't say) and only 1% of married men are incels, does not compute. Even if the 90% figure was 100% of females and 80% of males.

    I find it hard to imagine that even 1% of married men are incels, unless they or their wives are ill, they live apart, or they're in the process of divorcing. And sad to see that incels, who have enough of a problem as it is, are now considered to be a threat to the most powerful air force on earth. Talk about kicking a man when he's down.

    As though my opinion of that joke organization couldn’t sink any lower. Of course, they could end the “threat” tomorrow by permitting prostitution, but of course not because muh trafficking.

  69. @Jay Fink
    Are you sure young women are more numerous than men in large metros? That is definitely not true in the Western U.S.

    Sorry, among native born whites.

  70. i have asian friends who tell me how it is so those numbers seem very believable. in reality they’re probably worse than that, since i would assume most guys lie on these surveys.

    not believable at all when it come to jewish guys though. we’re really supposed to believe they’re having way more sex than black guys? i grew up with lots of jewish friends. the idea that they’re killing it with women, or that they’re all married now, so they have regular married sex, is nonsense. some of the worse guys with women, especially the nerdy ones. definitely not all married, and i know some divorced guys who will probably never have sex again.

    unless they’re robert kraft. oy vey.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    The image we have of black men as being more licentious stems from the 1960s-2000s era, when blacks were culturally more dominant than they are today, with more diverse musical forms (exclusively for them) and better media exposure. Now that black music and black media has petered out, the newer generation of black males are more likely to be celibate than white men, but HBD is too cucked and blindsided to pick up on the data that's coming out about this lately.

    Jewish men in particular are extremely popular with women, possibly due to everyone rambling nonstop about how they supposedly "control the world" and the money supply. A lot of women are converting to Judaism. Also, every Jewish woman I ever met was a nymphomaniac. You can't be celibate married to a Jewish woman.

    https://i.redd.it/pftyqj873m011.jpg

  71. @prime noticer
    i have asian friends who tell me how it is so those numbers seem very believable. in reality they're probably worse than that, since i would assume most guys lie on these surveys.

    not believable at all when it come to jewish guys though. we're really supposed to believe they're having way more sex than black guys? i grew up with lots of jewish friends. the idea that they're killing it with women, or that they're all married now, so they have regular married sex, is nonsense. some of the worse guys with women, especially the nerdy ones. definitely not all married, and i know some divorced guys who will probably never have sex again.

    unless they're robert kraft. oy vey.

    The image we have of black men as being more licentious stems from the 1960s-2000s era, when blacks were culturally more dominant than they are today, with more diverse musical forms (exclusively for them) and better media exposure. Now that black music and black media has petered out, the newer generation of black males are more likely to be celibate than white men, but HBD is too cucked and blindsided to pick up on the data that’s coming out about this lately.

    Jewish men in particular are extremely popular with women, possibly due to everyone rambling nonstop about how they supposedly “control the world” and the money supply. A lot of women are converting to Judaism. Also, every Jewish woman I ever met was a nymphomaniac. You can’t be celibate married to a Jewish woman.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Back when I identified as white, one of the most disturbing things about the HBD whites was they made whites look like such losers :)

    That's when I realized they are just another version of the self hating Left.

    Anyways, I now support the HBD whites - they are very helpful in boosting my own Jewish SMV :)
    , @Days of Broken Arrows
    "Also, every Jewish woman I ever met was a nymphomaniac. You can’t be celibate married to a Jewish woman."


    LOL! I learned this from experience. I'll just mention "Al and Peg Bundy" and leave it at that.
  72. @Sam Coulton
    The majority of people in America are white as of 2019, so it's expected that the majority of interracial relationships among nonwhite people will involve whites. And the data seem to reflect that, however, the "other" and "Hispanic" categories are proportionately vastly overrepresented in Asian interracial reltionships as compared with whites.

    This is particularly true for Laotian men who marry "Other" women more commonly than white women. Hmong men really buck the trend by marrying more black women than white women. Laotian and Japanese married women appear to be about as likely to be with a nonwhite-nonasian spouse as they are with a white. Filipino patterns are very balanced. I would say it's more like a modest majority of Asians are more likely to marry whites, but proportionately they tend to mix more with the "other-hispanic-black" legion. These are newlywed statistics from 2008-2016 so they don't represent the majority of American marriqges, and with few young Americans marrying, they don't necessarily reflect cohabit/date trends either.

    https://i.imgur.com/9cqeEFV.jpg

    That chart confirms all the stereotypes: asian-american females marry outside their race at far greater rates than asian males (more than double); while white, hispanic and south asian men and women marry out equally.

    African-American men marry white women at a higher rate than chinese-american men (the largest Asian ethnicity) do. If you add unmarried hookups the difference in mating rates would probably be much higher.

    Filipinas marry white men at the highest rate, followed closely by Japanese women. These are the only two ethnicities whose women marry out more than they marry in.

  73. @Sam Coulton
    The image we have of black men as being more licentious stems from the 1960s-2000s era, when blacks were culturally more dominant than they are today, with more diverse musical forms (exclusively for them) and better media exposure. Now that black music and black media has petered out, the newer generation of black males are more likely to be celibate than white men, but HBD is too cucked and blindsided to pick up on the data that's coming out about this lately.

    Jewish men in particular are extremely popular with women, possibly due to everyone rambling nonstop about how they supposedly "control the world" and the money supply. A lot of women are converting to Judaism. Also, every Jewish woman I ever met was a nymphomaniac. You can't be celibate married to a Jewish woman.

    https://i.redd.it/pftyqj873m011.jpg

    Back when I identified as white, one of the most disturbing things about the HBD whites was they made whites look like such losers 🙂

    That’s when I realized they are just another version of the self hating Left.

    Anyways, I now support the HBD whites – they are very helpful in boosting my own Jewish SMV 🙂

    • Agree: Sam Coulton
  74. @Oblivionrecurs
    This is Asian demographics per county

    http://magaimg.net/img/86u5.jpg


    Currently

    Asians in America by Pew Research and AAPI data

    Indians
    65% Democrat, 18% Republican - 2012
    66% Democrat, 22% Republican - 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 28% Pro-Trump - 2020
    Pro Tulsi Gabbard
    42-60% oppose affirmative action
    49% Big Gov, 40% Small Gov
    68% Registering, 62% voting
    Have the least sex
    Concerned with bullying
    Environmentalist

    Japanese
    54% Democrat, 29% Republican - 2012
    64% Democrat, 10% Republican - 2018
    72% Anti-Trump, 14% Pro-Trump - 2020
    43% Small Gov, 41% Big Gov
    67% Registering, 62% voting
    Most anti Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn't exist

    Chinese
    49% Democrat, 26% Republican - 2012
    46% Democrat, 22% Republican - 2018
    70% Anti-Trump, 24% Pro-Trump - 2020
    60-70% oppose affirmative action, was at 78% support affirmative action a few years ago
    50% Big-Gov, 39% Small Gov
    48% registering, 41% voting
    Most Pro Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn't exist

    Korean
    48% Democrat, 32% Republican - 2012
    68% Democrat, 24% Republican - 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 32% Pro-Trump - 2020
    68% Big Gov, 26% Small Gov
    26-28% oppose affirmative action
    55% Registered, 46% voting

    Filipino
    43% Democrat, 40% Republican - 2012
    40% Democrat, 40% Republican - 2018
    51% Pro-Trump, 49% Anti-Trump - 2020
    58% Big Gov. 36% Small Gov
    46-48% oppose affirmative action
    59% Registered, 50% voting
    Have the most sex

    Vietnamese
    36% Democrat, 35% Republican - 2012
    46% Republican, 32% Democrat - 2018
    64% Pro-Trump, 32% Anti-Trump - 2020
    69% Big Gov, 22% Small Gov
    44%-46% oppose affirmative action
    56% Registered, 46% voting
    Least into the environment

    Ranking the asian ethnics by how much they hate Trump:

    Japanese….72% anti-Trump
    Chinese……70%
    Koreans……66%
    Indians…….66%
    Filipinos…..49%
    Vietnamese 32%

  75. @Oblivionrecurs
    This is Asian demographics per county

    http://magaimg.net/img/86u5.jpg


    Currently

    Asians in America by Pew Research and AAPI data

    Indians
    65% Democrat, 18% Republican - 2012
    66% Democrat, 22% Republican - 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 28% Pro-Trump - 2020
    Pro Tulsi Gabbard
    42-60% oppose affirmative action
    49% Big Gov, 40% Small Gov
    68% Registering, 62% voting
    Have the least sex
    Concerned with bullying
    Environmentalist

    Japanese
    54% Democrat, 29% Republican - 2012
    64% Democrat, 10% Republican - 2018
    72% Anti-Trump, 14% Pro-Trump - 2020
    43% Small Gov, 41% Big Gov
    67% Registering, 62% voting
    Most anti Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn't exist

    Chinese
    49% Democrat, 26% Republican - 2012
    46% Democrat, 22% Republican - 2018
    70% Anti-Trump, 24% Pro-Trump - 2020
    60-70% oppose affirmative action, was at 78% support affirmative action a few years ago
    50% Big-Gov, 39% Small Gov
    48% registering, 41% voting
    Most Pro Retirement benefit Asian group
    Believe bullying doesn't exist

    Korean
    48% Democrat, 32% Republican - 2012
    68% Democrat, 24% Republican - 2018
    66% Anti-Trump, 32% Pro-Trump - 2020
    68% Big Gov, 26% Small Gov
    26-28% oppose affirmative action
    55% Registered, 46% voting

    Filipino
    43% Democrat, 40% Republican - 2012
    40% Democrat, 40% Republican - 2018
    51% Pro-Trump, 49% Anti-Trump - 2020
    58% Big Gov. 36% Small Gov
    46-48% oppose affirmative action
    59% Registered, 50% voting
    Have the most sex

    Vietnamese
    36% Democrat, 35% Republican - 2012
    46% Republican, 32% Democrat - 2018
    64% Pro-Trump, 32% Anti-Trump - 2020
    69% Big Gov, 22% Small Gov
    44%-46% oppose affirmative action
    56% Registered, 46% voting
    Least into the environment

    Ranking asian-american ethnics by their support for Big Government (a signature issue for Republicans: they hate it with a passion):

    Vietnamese….69% in favor of Big Govt
    Koreans……….68%
    Filipinos………58%
    Chinese………..50%
    Indians…………49%
    Japanese………41%

  76. @Anon
    I imagine they prefer Latinas because of greater physical compatibility. Many Latinas are very short, even shorter than Asian women. Whereas Asian men and White women are similar in height. It's not uncommon for White women to be taller and weigh more than Asian men. This is also probably why White women prefer White and non-Asian, non-White men over Asian men.

    Whereas Asian men and White women are similar in height.

    Average Korean male height among the younger generation is 5’8.5”(the US non-Hispanic white average is 5’9.5”). Average American white female height is 5’4.5” (Koreans are the tallest men in Asia, and have experienced a massive height gain in the past 30 years). So, by your logic, it’s not surprising that among American-born Asians, Koreans (both males and females) have the highest intermarriage rates with whites. It also helps that 70-80% of Koreans in America are Christians.

    By the way, I’m 6’2” and my white wife is 5’9”.

    It’s not uncommon for White women to… weigh more than Asian men.

    Obesity rates are much higher among whites than Asians, esp. among women.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    If the average Korean male height is an inch shorter, then that means they're 20% shorter than white men relative to white women. That's significant. Moreover, the overall average Asian male height is going to be even shorter.

    East Asian male intermarriage seems fairly uncommon. You don't see much of it. You see more South Asian and West Asian men, who are counted as "Asian", intermarrying. I'm skeptical of the Pew data you've cited before that puts the Asian male intermarriage rate ranging from 15% for immigrants to as high as 46% in 1980. If it was that high, it would be quite noticeable. The only way you'd get figures that high is if you had very unrepresentative samples from Hawaii or something.
    , @SFG
    A 6'2" Asian? You have some edges your cousins don't, I'll tell you that.
  77. @Rosie

    White women could marry Asian men.
     
    That would require them wanting to marry us. As you can see from the infographic I posted above, they prefer Latinas.

    As you can see from the infographic I posted above, they prefer Latinas.

    Actual intermarriage rates say not so. You should take numbers from an online dating website with a pinch of salt.

  78. @Reg Cæsar

    By the way, Muslims are a tiny fraction of the Asians population in America.
     
    East Asian. They have to come from Asia or Africa.

    East Asian. They have to come from Asia or Africa.

    Asian, as the US Census defines the term.

    Malays and Indonesians are rare in the US. Indian Muslims are it and they are still a small fraction. I went over this a while back: http://www.unz.com/anepigone/deportation-nation/#comment-3066125

    There are roughly 15 million Asians in America (per 2010 Census). The big ones are:

    Chinese 3.5 million
    Indian 3 million* (50% Indian [Hindu], 18% Christian, and 10% Muslim per Pew)
    Filipino 2.6 million (a tiny insignificant minority Muslim)
    Vietnamese 1.6 million
    Korean 1.5 million
    Japanese 0.8 million

    That’s roughly 13 million (minus 0.3 million Indian Muslims) out of 15 million total.

    Those who are identifiably from Muslim countries are:

    Bangladeshi 0.14 million
    Indonesian 0.06 million
    Malaysian 0.02 million
    Pakistani 0.38 million

    That’s only 0.6 million out of 15 million (and that’s assuming the Indonesians and Malaysians are not ethnic Chinese who are likely disproportionately represented among immigrants). Add the 0.3 million Indian Muslims, we have 0.9 million Muslims among Asians in America, about 6% of the total.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    I'm surprised there is no one from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Do Americans consider those countries to be in Europe?
    , @Jay Fink
    I know an Indonesian. She is a pretty 50 year old woman married to a 70 year old white guy.
  79. @YetAnotherAnon
    I see what you mean - if 90% of Asians are married (though by what age? the graph doesn't say) and only 1% of married men are incels, does not compute. Even if the 90% figure was 100% of females and 80% of males.

    I find it hard to imagine that even 1% of married men are incels, unless they or their wives are ill, they live apart, or they're in the process of divorcing. And sad to see that incels, who have enough of a problem as it is, are now considered to be a threat to the most powerful air force on earth. Talk about kicking a man when he's down.

    Yup. People around here opine a lot based on very limited or undifferentiated data (or worse, anecdotes). You get different views when to break down the numbers.

    I think the age was “By 40.”

  80. @Anonymous
    Yep and it's more common than you think in certain social circles.

    If you're a nerdy high IQ white woman, who is educated and has UMC parents, it's way more socially acceptable to marry a Jewish or Asian man than a black or Hispanic man.

    Social mores aside, there is absolutely no reason for a high IQ UMC white woman to even go near black or Hispanic men. But there is plenty of reason to look at Jewish and Asian men.

    White men have higher requirements for physical attrativeness. I've seen multiple white men marry white women who are slutty, have low IQs, or come from low status families if the woman is an 8 or higher.

    But Jewish and Asian men tend to have more similar marriage requirements as nerdy high IQ UMC white women do: facial unattractiveness is ok. no T&A is ok. But the spouse *must* be thin, have a high IQ, come from a family with a good reputation, be educated, have either significant income or wealth, and not be a slut.

    So if any white women are reading this: marry a Jewish or Asian man if you have every positive trait except for facial beauty and T&A. Jewish and Asian men care more about you having a high IQ, a low partner count (must be between 0-5), high status parents, a good alma mater, and familial wealth.

    But the spouse *must* be thin, have a high IQ, come from a family with a good reputation, be educated, have either significant income or wealth, and not be a slut.

    Those are class markers.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yes? So?

    I am merely pointing these things out because I have seen multiple high IQ, educated white men marry disgusting low IQ sluts with bastard kids if she was an 8 or higher.

    I respect Jewish and Asian men for choosing women, regardless of their race, based on statistics that correlate with faithful marriage for life.
    , @SFG
    Exactly. Most Jews are middle class or higher, and most East Asians plan to be. 'White' includes everyone from a tenth-generation Harvard grad in Beacon Hill to a drug addict on the street. I imagine most well-off whites are thinking like the Jews and Asians mentioned earlier.
  81. @Mark G.
    Rosie, if white men marry Asian women then white women don't have to marry black men. White women could marry Asian men. It's probably a good thing, though, you didn't marry Twinkie considering how you two get along. The ones really left out are black women. Not only is it the case that only black men are potentially interested in them but they also have to contend with the problem that many black men are in prison, which takes them out of the dating pool.

    It’s probably a good thing, though, you didn’t marry Twinkie considering how you two get along.

    Judging by her comments, I get along much better with my wife than Rosie with her husband.

    And, sorry, but I wasn’t going to marry an unstable, promiscuous, and obese woman. My wife was a high level athlete in college (she was top 5 in the world at her peak) and went on to earn a STEM doctorate after we married. She’s very high energy (worked three jobs in high school, including on a farm) and doesn’t believe in whining. And her ex-partner count is zero (she comes from a very traditional and religious background in the rural Midwest).

    She also brought me back from a deep, dark depth after I came home badly hurt overseas. I thank God for giving me such a wife everyday.

  82. 216 says:
    @Rosie

    Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.
     
    Still no evidence.

    https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/newfigure1wang-w640.png

    (See what I mean about data being ignored?)

    Credentials may not be the same as income. Women still expect their husband to earn more.

    A public school teacher in many states is required to earn a masters degree (bureaucratic featherbedding), but isn’t often paid anything more. (She) may have a blue-collar husband that makes more money.

    What we focus on is the experience of UMC professional class women, which are a small but vocal part of the population that influences the trends that others follow.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Those men who “marry up” educationally have higher divorce rates.

    But Rosie may not be wrong about the increasing prevalence of mismatches. For the past 30-40 years, assortative marriages have skyrocketed, but that may be declining due to internet dating and such that vastly expands the dating pool beyond the organic social network.

    This, by the way, is a very much of a black trend. It’s very common for black women to marry black men with lower educational attainment. Black trends usually show up among downscale whites eventually.
    , @Rosie

    A public school teacher in many states is required to earn a masters degree (bureaucratic featherbedding), but isn’t often paid anything more. (She) may have a blue-collar husband that makes more money.
     
    So then let's stop pretending women won't marry lower-status blue collar men. It's a lie.
  83. @Twinkie

    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.
     
    I don’t know about that. Asian male-whites female couples have the highest average income.
    https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f3d4337eab8eaef54000042-480-712.jpg

    This is largely a result of geography. White couples are a lot more likely to live outside of major metro areas where pay is lower than mixed white/Asian couples. Lots of Hispanics also live out in the hinterlands.

  84. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Whereas Asian men and White women are similar in height.
     
    Average Korean male height among the younger generation is 5’8.5”(the US non-Hispanic white average is 5’9.5”). Average American white female height is 5’4.5” (Koreans are the tallest men in Asia, and have experienced a massive height gain in the past 30 years). So, by your logic, it’s not surprising that among American-born Asians, Koreans (both males and females) have the highest intermarriage rates with whites. It also helps that 70-80% of Koreans in America are Christians.

    By the way, I’m 6’2” and my white wife is 5’9”.

    It’s not uncommon for White women to... weigh more than Asian men.
     
    Obesity rates are much higher among whites than Asians, esp. among women.

    If the average Korean male height is an inch shorter, then that means they’re 20% shorter than white men relative to white women. That’s significant. Moreover, the overall average Asian male height is going to be even shorter.

    East Asian male intermarriage seems fairly uncommon. You don’t see much of it. You see more South Asian and West Asian men, who are counted as “Asian”, intermarrying. I’m skeptical of the Pew data you’ve cited before that puts the Asian male intermarriage rate ranging from 15% for immigrants to as high as 46% in 1980. If it was that high, it would be quite noticeable. The only way you’d get figures that high is if you had very unrepresentative samples from Hawaii or something.

  85. @216
    Credentials may not be the same as income. Women still expect their husband to earn more.

    A public school teacher in many states is required to earn a masters degree (bureaucratic featherbedding), but isn't often paid anything more. (She) may have a blue-collar husband that makes more money.

    What we focus on is the experience of UMC professional class women, which are a small but vocal part of the population that influences the trends that others follow.

    Those men who “marry up” educationally have higher divorce rates.

    But Rosie may not be wrong about the increasing prevalence of mismatches. For the past 30-40 years, assortative marriages have skyrocketed, but that may be declining due to internet dating and such that vastly expands the dating pool beyond the organic social network.

    This, by the way, is a very much of a black trend. It’s very common for black women to marry black men with lower educational attainment. Black trends usually show up among downscale whites eventually.

    • Replies: @216
    Anecdotally, its common for working class women to work in healthcare; and these women tend not to marry up. As male peers are less common in healthcare, their pairings tend to be with other working class men. Healthcare is a rather protected and regulated industry (except for the low paid aides on the literal rear end of the stick), which has insulated its workers from globalization. Education, another female dominated sector, is also the same way.

    Working in either area is probably a good outcome relationship wise for many beta males.
  86. 216 says:
    @Mark G.
    I think you underestimate the desirability of white females to Asian guys. I see more situations of Asian guys trying to be friendly with white girls and white girls not being friendly back rather than vice versa. There was the Elliot Rodgers situation a few years back where an Asian guy went on a shooting spree after the white girls in his high school that he wanted snubbed him. Do you know a lot of white females who complain about how they just can't get those Asian guys to notice them? I don't. You commented above that it's a manosphere myth that white women are interested in ghetto black guys. So if women aren't interested in black guys then Asian guys who are interested in them seem a good alternative.

    In my experience, its less common for Asian males in the US to be as active in sports in HS. This carries over to university and adulthood. They also tend to be the most urbanized group.

    So in manosphere terminology, Asian-American males follow the beta strategy; which less successful in a post-industrial society dominated by a FIRE bubble. No matter how hard Mr. Beta works, he can’t signal provider status until his 30s, especially in a coastal city. To the traditional “fob” group, a spouse can be imported from the Old Country.

    E. Rodger was mixed, as was another incel attacker at a lesser known killing in Oregon.


    Put it another way: Who probably appears more cringe-worthy? FrancoOntarian or BengaliCanadian

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    In my experience, its less common for Asian males in the US to be as active in sports in HS.
     
    Are you kidding? Tiger Moms have their charges all over sports and other extracurriculars, if for nothing else then for college admissions. There are lots of top junior Asian males in golf, tennis, etc. Also popular are fencing, lacrosse, swimming, and so on. Their participation has increased considerably in soccer as well.

    Also, they are heavily represented in grappling sports such as Judo and Brazilian Jujitsu (there are also surprisingly high numbers of Asian children in wrestling). Go to tournaments for such martial sports and you will see a massive numbers of Asian and Hapa youngsters in them. At my son's Judo club, the top five cadet-level competitors are all Asian or Hapa.

    They just aren't active in "black" sports such as football and basketball.

    They also tend to be the most urbanized group.
     
    True, though increasingly suburban.
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Bengali, obviously.

    Anyways, neither of us are incels, while you are. So I see where the tension is coming from but I have to reject it as feminine and insecure.

  87. 216 says:
    @Twinkie
    Those men who “marry up” educationally have higher divorce rates.

    But Rosie may not be wrong about the increasing prevalence of mismatches. For the past 30-40 years, assortative marriages have skyrocketed, but that may be declining due to internet dating and such that vastly expands the dating pool beyond the organic social network.

    This, by the way, is a very much of a black trend. It’s very common for black women to marry black men with lower educational attainment. Black trends usually show up among downscale whites eventually.

    Anecdotally, its common for working class women to work in healthcare; and these women tend not to marry up. As male peers are less common in healthcare, their pairings tend to be with other working class men. Healthcare is a rather protected and regulated industry (except for the low paid aides on the literal rear end of the stick), which has insulated its workers from globalization. Education, another female dominated sector, is also the same way.

    Working in either area is probably a good outcome relationship wise for many beta males.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Anecdotally, its common for working class women to work in healthcare; and these women tend not to marry up. As male peers are less common in healthcare, their pairings tend to be with other working class men.
     
    Yes. At the lower end of nursing, females tend to be married to those with less education than they have. Decades ago, pretty nurses would marry doctors, but nowadays doctors are typically married to other doctors or females of similar cognitive and professional profile (lawyers, accountants, investment bankers, etc.).

    insulated its workers from globalization
     
    Not quite true for physicians. There has been a large increase of "foreign medical graduates" in the U.S., especially Indians these days. And some types of work is outsourced, e.g. radiology.
  88. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.
     
    Still no evidence.

    https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/newfigure1wang-w640.png

    (See what I mean about data being ignored?)

    The Y-axis in your graph represents share of all married couples. It doesn’t tell us about the overall marriage rate. In fact, the US marriage rate started hitting historic lows between 2010 and 2015, right around where the blue and yellow lines cross in your graph. That is, when the share of all marriages in which the husband is less educated than the wife hit record highs, marriage rates were hitting record lows. This is consistent with Lot’s claim: fewer women are getting married as marriage is increasingly characterized as eloping with a less educated man.

    It’s hard to tell exactly from your graph, but it looks like around 1980 was when you had the greatest share of marriages in which the husband was more educated than the wife. That was roughly the time, the early 80s, when marriages peaked in the US:

    https://rhiever.github.io/marriage-divorce-stats/marriages_divorces.html

    Education is a proxy for social status, prestige, income, etc., so this data suggests that if you want a society with high rates of monogamous marriage, then men on average have to have greater status than women. It’s basically a form of sexual dimorphism that has to be maintained in order to make men acceptable mates to women. If you made the average man a foot shorter than the average woman, women’s marriage and sexual interest in average men would drop significantly.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    The Y-axis in your graph represents share of all married couples. It doesn’t tell us about the overall marriage rate.
     
    Still waiting for evidence that women (rather than men) re shunning marriage. I guess I'll be waiting till Kingdom Come, since no such evidence exists.
  89. @Twinkie

    East Asian. They have to come from Asia or Africa.
     
    Asian, as the US Census defines the term.

    Malays and Indonesians are rare in the US. Indian Muslims are it and they are still a small fraction. I went over this a while back: http://www.unz.com/anepigone/deportation-nation/#comment-3066125

    There are roughly 15 million Asians in America (per 2010 Census). The big ones are:

    Chinese 3.5 million
    Indian 3 million* (50% Indian [Hindu], 18% Christian, and 10% Muslim per Pew)
    Filipino 2.6 million (a tiny insignificant minority Muslim)
    Vietnamese 1.6 million
    Korean 1.5 million
    Japanese 0.8 million

    That’s roughly 13 million (minus 0.3 million Indian Muslims) out of 15 million total.

    Those who are identifiably from Muslim countries are:

    Bangladeshi 0.14 million
    Indonesian 0.06 million
    Malaysian 0.02 million
    Pakistani 0.38 million

    That’s only 0.6 million out of 15 million (and that’s assuming the Indonesians and Malaysians are not ethnic Chinese who are likely disproportionately represented among immigrants). Add the 0.3 million Indian Muslims, we have 0.9 million Muslims among Asians in America, about 6% of the total.
     

    I’m surprised there is no one from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Do Americans consider those countries to be in Europe?

    • Replies: @Talha
    Would that be surprising? I mean, you have seen those video clips of where they ask random Americans simple geography questions and they have no clue where anything is, right?

    Geography might as well be Greek.

    Peace.
    , @RSDB
    https://www.census.gov/mso/www/training/pdf/race-ethnicity-onepager.pdf
    , @Twinkie

    I’m surprised there is no one from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Do Americans consider those countries to be in Europe?
     
    Middle Easterners are typically classified as whites in the United States, at least by the Census. Even so, the numbers of people from those countries are quite small. The largest Middle Eastern population in the U.S. is Lebanese who are in the majority Christian here and well-assimilated.

    By the way, the large Muslim demographic in the U.S. is (native-born) black.
    , @Lot
    They are “white” according to our census, “arabs” or “indians” for the average person, and often “MENAs” for other statistical purposes.

    When the average American hears “Asian” it is NE or SE Asian. In 95% of the USA South Asians and Arabs are rare.
  90. @Peter Frost
    I'm surprised there is no one from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Do Americans consider those countries to be in Europe?

    Would that be surprising? I mean, you have seen those video clips of where they ask random Americans simple geography questions and they have no clue where anything is, right?

    Geography might as well be Greek.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RSDB

    Geography might as well be Greek.
     
    It is: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/γεωγραφία#Ancient_Greek
  91. @Sam Coulton
    The image we have of black men as being more licentious stems from the 1960s-2000s era, when blacks were culturally more dominant than they are today, with more diverse musical forms (exclusively for them) and better media exposure. Now that black music and black media has petered out, the newer generation of black males are more likely to be celibate than white men, but HBD is too cucked and blindsided to pick up on the data that's coming out about this lately.

    Jewish men in particular are extremely popular with women, possibly due to everyone rambling nonstop about how they supposedly "control the world" and the money supply. A lot of women are converting to Judaism. Also, every Jewish woman I ever met was a nymphomaniac. You can't be celibate married to a Jewish woman.

    https://i.redd.it/pftyqj873m011.jpg

    “Also, every Jewish woman I ever met was a nymphomaniac. You can’t be celibate married to a Jewish woman.”

    LOL! I learned this from experience. I’ll just mention “Al and Peg Bundy” and leave it at that.

  92. @Peter Frost
    I'm surprised there is no one from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Do Americans consider those countries to be in Europe?
  93. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Days of Broken Arrows
    "I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.”"

    Then do what author Nora Vincent did, except do it in the digital realm. Get on a dating site and pretend you're a man. See what it's like from the other side.

    But...you have to pretend you're an average man with an average salary, average job, average height, and average looks. And you have to have graduated from a state school. No fancy cars or houses either -- just average stuff.

    Right off the bat, a middling salary and height below 6' will rule you out with a large number of women. They screen/filter out these factors in their dating profiles. You can contact them, but you won't appear in their searches. So right there you're at a loss.

    Going in from the point of these disadvantages, you then have to maintain a sense of humor and good cheer and have a thick skin when it comes to rejection. Most men expect to get rejected by the California blonde. But in this world, you're gonna be getting rejected by overweight women and single mothers, so be prepared.

    After all this,, come back and tell us about the expectations of the women you encounter. If I remember correctly, Nora Vincent needed mental health help after living in the real world as a man for a short time. Let us know how you hold up mentally in the digital one.

    Online dating apps, with the illusion of infinite choice they give, and their inevitably tendency to showcase other-sex showpieces have gotten females’ inborn narcissism and hypergamy out of whack (even getting an other-sex showpiece’s attention is more about ego validation than any genuine affection, of course).

    What’s more, due to their behaviour (always select flattery and dishonesty over honesty, which can never be flattering, or as flattering as dishonesty; always turn down anybody who shows any genuine emotions), they have turned online dating into a psychological grinder for men, to the effect that the type of male they believe they are in search of (“honest” and “loving”) is the least likely to be found because it is the least likely to be able to stand the mind-grinding.

    It’s not unlike politics — where people believe they are saddened by politicians’ “corruption”, blissfully unaware that no-one who would not be “corrupt” really has a chance to earn their liking.

  94. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mark G.
    I think you underestimate the desirability of white females to Asian guys. I see more situations of Asian guys trying to be friendly with white girls and white girls not being friendly back rather than vice versa. There was the Elliot Rodgers situation a few years back where an Asian guy went on a shooting spree after the white girls in his high school that he wanted snubbed him. Do you know a lot of white females who complain about how they just can't get those Asian guys to notice them? I don't. You commented above that it's a manosphere myth that white women are interested in ghetto black guys. So if women aren't interested in black guys then Asian guys who are interested in them seem a good alternative.

    Most frequently, women believe they are most interested in what they want least, and viceversa, this being the case both as to physical, and character, features.

    I won’t go on on why it is so, though. Anybody interested in noticing average psychological differences between the sexes only has to observe on his own lonesome, or search for the rare high-quality bias-free material on the internet (such as the “Treatise of Love”).

  95. @YetAnotherAnon
    I see what you mean - if 90% of Asians are married (though by what age? the graph doesn't say) and only 1% of married men are incels, does not compute. Even if the 90% figure was 100% of females and 80% of males.

    I find it hard to imagine that even 1% of married men are incels, unless they or their wives are ill, they live apart, or they're in the process of divorcing. And sad to see that incels, who have enough of a problem as it is, are now considered to be a threat to the most powerful air force on earth. Talk about kicking a man when he's down.

    Talk about kicking a man when he’s down.

    Know of a more common instinct? There’s energy to release through aggression, what other choice than the weakest in the room would be an equally smart choice?

  96. @216
    In my experience, its less common for Asian males in the US to be as active in sports in HS. This carries over to university and adulthood. They also tend to be the most urbanized group.

    So in manosphere terminology, Asian-American males follow the beta strategy; which less successful in a post-industrial society dominated by a FIRE bubble. No matter how hard Mr. Beta works, he can't signal provider status until his 30s, especially in a coastal city. To the traditional "fob" group, a spouse can be imported from the Old Country.

    E. Rodger was mixed, as was another incel attacker at a lesser known killing in Oregon.

    ---
    Put it another way: Who probably appears more cringe-worthy? FrancoOntarian or BengaliCanadian

    In my experience, its less common for Asian males in the US to be as active in sports in HS.

    Are you kidding? Tiger Moms have their charges all over sports and other extracurriculars, if for nothing else then for college admissions. There are lots of top junior Asian males in golf, tennis, etc. Also popular are fencing, lacrosse, swimming, and so on. Their participation has increased considerably in soccer as well.

    Also, they are heavily represented in grappling sports such as Judo and Brazilian Jujitsu (there are also surprisingly high numbers of Asian children in wrestling). Go to tournaments for such martial sports and you will see a massive numbers of Asian and Hapa youngsters in them. At my son’s Judo club, the top five cadet-level competitors are all Asian or Hapa.

    They just aren’t active in “black” sports such as football and basketball.

    They also tend to be the most urbanized group.

    True, though increasingly suburban.

  97. @Peter Frost
    I'm surprised there is no one from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Do Americans consider those countries to be in Europe?

    I’m surprised there is no one from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Do Americans consider those countries to be in Europe?

    Middle Easterners are typically classified as whites in the United States, at least by the Census. Even so, the numbers of people from those countries are quite small. The largest Middle Eastern population in the U.S. is Lebanese who are in the majority Christian here and well-assimilated.

    By the way, the large Muslim demographic in the U.S. is (native-born) black.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude

    the large Muslim demographic in the U.S. is (native-born) black.
     
    Yes, because of the Nation of Islam, Elijah Muhammad and all that garbage.
  98. @216
    Anecdotally, its common for working class women to work in healthcare; and these women tend not to marry up. As male peers are less common in healthcare, their pairings tend to be with other working class men. Healthcare is a rather protected and regulated industry (except for the low paid aides on the literal rear end of the stick), which has insulated its workers from globalization. Education, another female dominated sector, is also the same way.

    Working in either area is probably a good outcome relationship wise for many beta males.

    Anecdotally, its common for working class women to work in healthcare; and these women tend not to marry up. As male peers are less common in healthcare, their pairings tend to be with other working class men.

    Yes. At the lower end of nursing, females tend to be married to those with less education than they have. Decades ago, pretty nurses would marry doctors, but nowadays doctors are typically married to other doctors or females of similar cognitive and professional profile (lawyers, accountants, investment bankers, etc.).

    insulated its workers from globalization

    Not quite true for physicians. There has been a large increase of “foreign medical graduates” in the U.S., especially Indians these days. And some types of work is outsourced, e.g. radiology.

  99. @Anon
    Back-of-the-envelope-ing here, so please feel free to correct me.

    Pew reports for interracial marriage by type: https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/pst_2017-05-15-intermarriage-01-00/

    These are reports for "newlyweds", most of whom will be millenial; so from https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/07/biggest-share-of-whites-in-u-s-are-boomers-but-for-minority-groups-its-millennials-or-younger/ft_16-7-7-genage2/ and general fugures for US population of 61.3% white and 17.8% Hispanic there are about 2.8 times as many white as Hispanic millenials in the US (though the issue is confused by white and Hispanic not being exclusive). But there are five times as many white-Asian as Hispanic-Asian marriages in the US, so Asians are not showing a vastly preponderant preference for Hispanics as opposed to whites as marriage partners.

    But there are five times as many white-Asian as Hispanic-Asian marriages in the US, so Asians are not showing a vastly preponderant preference for Hispanics as opposed to whites as marriage partners.

    Correct.

    But I would not be surprised if Hispanic-Asian marriages are more common now than used to be the case. Nonetheless, it is a small fraction of the white-Asian marriages as you pointed out.

    Note that the Asians have the highest educational attainment among all races in the U.S. while the Hispanics have the lowest. That’s not a match made in heaven and will always be a large barrier in intermarriages between the two groups, especially for “fancy” Asian.

  100. @Anonymous
    Yep and it's more common than you think in certain social circles.

    If you're a nerdy high IQ white woman, who is educated and has UMC parents, it's way more socially acceptable to marry a Jewish or Asian man than a black or Hispanic man.

    Social mores aside, there is absolutely no reason for a high IQ UMC white woman to even go near black or Hispanic men. But there is plenty of reason to look at Jewish and Asian men.

    White men have higher requirements for physical attrativeness. I've seen multiple white men marry white women who are slutty, have low IQs, or come from low status families if the woman is an 8 or higher.

    But Jewish and Asian men tend to have more similar marriage requirements as nerdy high IQ UMC white women do: facial unattractiveness is ok. no T&A is ok. But the spouse *must* be thin, have a high IQ, come from a family with a good reputation, be educated, have either significant income or wealth, and not be a slut.

    So if any white women are reading this: marry a Jewish or Asian man if you have every positive trait except for facial beauty and T&A. Jewish and Asian men care more about you having a high IQ, a low partner count (must be between 0-5), high status parents, a good alma mater, and familial wealth.

    a low partner count (must be between 0-5)

    Is that how you determine what is a “slut”? Lol.

  101. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    But the spouse *must* be thin, have a high IQ, come from a family with a good reputation, be educated, have either significant income or wealth, and not be a slut.
     
    Those are class markers.

    Yes? So?

    I am merely pointing these things out because I have seen multiple high IQ, educated white men marry disgusting low IQ sluts with bastard kids if she was an 8 or higher.

    I respect Jewish and Asian men for choosing women, regardless of their race, based on statistics that correlate with faithful marriage for life.

  102. I hate to slip in this observation.

    But the political impact or what this tells us about US socialization is slight at best.

    As I understand it the issue for Intel is not one of choice but lack of opportunity. That doesn’t say much about the politics. One who knowledges the lack of exchange by opportunity as opposed belief and practice. The politics of that populationthen is just inconsistant, save that are liberals.

    “Oh, whoa is me, I didn’t have relations yesterday – ” is not info ation of the state of the country. The fact such a dynamic exists is not. Ew. Itls just that technology provides a platform for people to form like experiential community.

    A then to juxtapose that community against those who are married and thereby operate in a completely different relational environment has me a tad confused to the point aside from mild curiosity.

    My housemate and I have been in Palm Springs this week. I have been visiting Palm Springs since the 1990’s. And I have never seen the number of open same sex relations – ever. A community that used to be loaded. Couples, families and kids is non-existent. That is a social and political tell. Still, I joined the chamber of commerce.

    Given my political, social faith my decision would on its face appear to be completely contradictory. But what serves as no factor is how many men or women miss out on relations because they lack opportunity. Yet in speaking with the chamber liaison counseling in this area appears to be successful.

  103. @Clemsnman
    What is wrong with the term "orientals" to refer to Japanese-Korean-Chinese and SE ASians? Using the broad term "Asian" is asinine because Indians are completely different from orientals.

    Stop the PC nonsense, it confuses the data.

    Yeah, no one has ever explained this to me. I once had a liberal girlfriend who admonished me for the term, but could never tell me what was offensive about it. The best they can do is say it’s Eurocentric to imply Asia is to the East, yet no one objects to terms like Middle East or Far East (and in any case, for Americans, East Asia is to the West.) And of course, “Asia” itself is a word of European origin.

    All I can really figure is that the left likes to consolidate nonwhite groups. If they could, they’d abolish the term “Asians” and just group them together as “POCs”. But until then, they’d like if we call everyone from Kazakhs to Japanese “Asian”, rather than subdivide them in opposition to one another.

    “NE Asian” is still a more precise term than “oriental” though, which could reasonably extend to peoples as far southwest as Burma.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Yeah, no one has ever explained this to me. I once had a liberal girlfriend who admonished me for the term, but could never tell me what was offensive about it. The best they can do is say it’s Eurocentric to imply Asia is to the East

    Did you stay with her long? Anyway, it's a waste of time to ask them "why?"... especially why something is offensive. It is offensive because they choose to feel offended by it.
  104. @Anonymous
    That's a good point. Peter Frost has mentioned how the overall male to female ratio is greater now. However, as you indicate, there are now more women in college than men, and young women concentrate in large cities with fewer men and even earn more than men. Thus the effective ratio of marriageable men to women is lower. When you hand out degrees and credentials to women and give them higher paying jobs, lower credentialed and lower earning men become much less appealing to women as prospective mates. If you try to introduce such men to young women, they will take it as an insult, like calling them ugly or something.

    This is overstated. Overcredentialed women may not marry undercredentialed men, but they get fucked by GED-holding chads all the time. Clearing the credential bar basically means you get to skip straight to the part that sucks (ie marriage), very possibly raising someone else’s offspring.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Clearing the credential bar basically means you get to skip straight to the part that sucks (ie marriage)...
     
    Refreshing honesty.
    , @Days of Broken Arrows
    I said this on another thread and got called an idiot for it. Yet I see this with my own eyes constantly. As I said before, "Alpha F*x, Beta Bux" became a phrase for a reason.
  105. @Anonymous
    They do want to marry *some* white women.

    You have to remember, only white men care about facial beauty to the extreme. White men care about pretty face and T&A. Black/Hispanic men care mostly about T&A and high sex drive. Jewish/Asian men care about thinness, low partner count (should be between 0-5), IQ, family social class, education, and income/wealth.

    You need to be a thin, smart, chaste, educated, UMC white woman to attract a Jewish or Asian man. But it's ok to have an ugly face and no curves.

    Well this is an interesting hobby horse. Probably some truth to it though.

  106. Anon[494] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wency
    Yeah, no one has ever explained this to me. I once had a liberal girlfriend who admonished me for the term, but could never tell me what was offensive about it. The best they can do is say it's Eurocentric to imply Asia is to the East, yet no one objects to terms like Middle East or Far East (and in any case, for Americans, East Asia is to the West.) And of course, "Asia" itself is a word of European origin.

    All I can really figure is that the left likes to consolidate nonwhite groups. If they could, they'd abolish the term "Asians" and just group them together as "POCs". But until then, they'd like if we call everyone from Kazakhs to Japanese "Asian", rather than subdivide them in opposition to one another.

    "NE Asian" is still a more precise term than "oriental" though, which could reasonably extend to peoples as far southwest as Burma.

    Yeah, no one has ever explained this to me. I once had a liberal girlfriend who admonished me for the term, but could never tell me what was offensive about it. The best they can do is say it’s Eurocentric to imply Asia is to the East

    Did you stay with her long? Anyway, it’s a waste of time to ask them “why?”… especially why something is offensive. It is offensive because they choose to feel offended by it.

  107. Also of impac is the number of Hispanics that are in positions that impact the fortunes and futures of US citizens, and I suspect. No small percentage of them are here illegally. The bleeding of the country goes on unabated.

    Sad.

    deal with Mexico to curb illegal immigration ——

    Laugh good grief.

  108. @Twinkie
    Another thing I find a bit odd about the data is that 99% of married people had sex at least once in the past year. And Asians have the highest marriage rates (and the lowest divorce rates):

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4850739/bin/nihms777225f1.jpg

    Something doesn't jive well with the data (although there is, of course, a possibility that the non-married Asians are particularly prone to "no sex last year" category).

    ~60% of male Asians 18-40 in the 2000-18 surveys are never-married, about 40% of that reports no sex for the year.

    The sample numbers are a little small for my personal comfort but then I’m not a statistician (which also goes toward explaining the absence of quality in graphics and whatever mistakes I have made).

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    I can’t see your attachments. By the way, Asians marry late in the U.S. - later than everyone else, but their overall marriage rate is the highest, for both men and women.

    As you know, though, an extreme fraction can skew the average significantly from the median. So there may be a minority of Asians who are disproportionately undersexed... which - if they are not married - is the right thing in my view.
  109. @Rosie

    Yet they are unwilling to “date down” in income or education, at least until after they hit 33 or 34 and realize the clock’s running out.
     
    Still no evidence.

    https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/newfigure1wang-w640.png

    (See what I mean about data being ignored?)

    But the % of adults who are married has fallen.

    A larger % of women who marry are “marrying down”, but fewer are marrying.

  110. @Talha
    Would that be surprising? I mean, you have seen those video clips of where they ask random Americans simple geography questions and they have no clue where anything is, right?

    Geography might as well be Greek.

    Peace.

    Geography might as well be Greek.

    It is: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/γεωγραφία#Ancient_Greek

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Heh!
  111. @RSDB
    ~60% of male Asians 18-40 in the 2000-18 surveys are never-married, about 40% of that reports no sex for the year.

    https://pasteboard.co/IksjBKx.png

    https://pasteboard.co/IksvLTN.png

    The sample numbers are a little small for my personal comfort but then I'm not a statistician (which also goes toward explaining the absence of quality in graphics and whatever mistakes I have made).

    I can’t see your attachments. By the way, Asians marry late in the U.S. – later than everyone else, but their overall marriage rate is the highest, for both men and women.

    As you know, though, an extreme fraction can skew the average significantly from the median. So there may be a minority of Asians who are disproportionately undersexed… which – if they are not married – is the right thing in my view.

    • Replies: @RSDB
    Let's try again. (under more tag)

    https://i.snag.gy/ODI89A.jpg

    https://i.snag.gy/lIhMXO.jpg

    Maybe the different hosting site will do the trick? I'm unsure in any case of the value of the data, though, as I mentioned before.


    So there may be a minority of Asians who are disproportionately undersexed… which – if they are not married – is the right thing in my view.
     
    Can't disagree there.
  112. @L Woods
    This is overstated. Overcredentialed women may not marry undercredentialed men, but they get fucked by GED-holding chads all the time. Clearing the credential bar basically means you get to skip straight to the part that sucks (ie marriage), very possibly raising someone else’s offspring.

    Clearing the credential bar basically means you get to skip straight to the part that sucks (ie marriage)…

    Refreshing honesty.

  113. @216
    Credentials may not be the same as income. Women still expect their husband to earn more.

    A public school teacher in many states is required to earn a masters degree (bureaucratic featherbedding), but isn't often paid anything more. (She) may have a blue-collar husband that makes more money.

    What we focus on is the experience of UMC professional class women, which are a small but vocal part of the population that influences the trends that others follow.

    A public school teacher in many states is required to earn a masters degree (bureaucratic featherbedding), but isn’t often paid anything more. (She) may have a blue-collar husband that makes more money.

    So then let’s stop pretending women won’t marry lower-status blue collar men. It’s a lie.

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
    It's a long way from 'never' to 'often'.
  114. @Days of Broken Arrows
    "I’m still waiting to see the evidence of these “excessive expectations.”"

    Then do what author Nora Vincent did, except do it in the digital realm. Get on a dating site and pretend you're a man. See what it's like from the other side.

    But...you have to pretend you're an average man with an average salary, average job, average height, and average looks. And you have to have graduated from a state school. No fancy cars or houses either -- just average stuff.

    Right off the bat, a middling salary and height below 6' will rule you out with a large number of women. They screen/filter out these factors in their dating profiles. You can contact them, but you won't appear in their searches. So right there you're at a loss.

    Going in from the point of these disadvantages, you then have to maintain a sense of humor and good cheer and have a thick skin when it comes to rejection. Most men expect to get rejected by the California blonde. But in this world, you're gonna be getting rejected by overweight women and single mothers, so be prepared.

    After all this,, come back and tell us about the expectations of the women you encounter. If I remember correctly, Nora Vincent needed mental health help after living in the real world as a man for a short time. Let us know how you hold up mentally in the digital one.

    Then do what author Nora Vincent did, except do it in the digital realm. Get on a dating site and pretend you’re a man. See what it’s like from the other side.

    I could say the same to you. Pretend you’re a “fat girl” and see how much luck you have.

  115. @Mark G.
    I think you underestimate the desirability of white females to Asian guys. I see more situations of Asian guys trying to be friendly with white girls and white girls not being friendly back rather than vice versa. There was the Elliot Rodgers situation a few years back where an Asian guy went on a shooting spree after the white girls in his high school that he wanted snubbed him. Do you know a lot of white females who complain about how they just can't get those Asian guys to notice them? I don't. You commented above that it's a manosphere myth that white women are interested in ghetto black guys. So if women aren't interested in black guys then Asian guys who are interested in them seem a good alternative.

    I see more situations of Asian guys trying to be friendly with white girls and white girls not being friendly back rather than vice versa.

    Look. Your casual personal observations are not evidence.

    The simple fact is that black men are the least desirable group to ALL groups of women except black women. Eventually, you’re going to have to let go 9f the unsupported manosphere myths, however hard that might be on your ego.

    • LOL: Truth
    • Replies: @Mark G.
    A 2014 study done by the OkCupid online dating service found that Asian men, not black men, were found least desirable by all groups of women. So, once again, white women don't have to date black guys. They could date Asian guys if they wanted to.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    No, your dating-site graphics have some truth, but are way too simplistic, Rosie. I'll give you anecdotal evidence, but it's from quite a few Oriental guys I know. They like white chicks. The ones that like them like bigger boobs*, and they are not in it for the personalities, I guarantee you.

    I'm not saying they wouldn't be happy with Oriental ladies, especially if they live in an unassimilated community, and there are lots now, the way things are going. They just have a fetish for white girls.

    You've got your manosphere myths wrong, anyway, but I can correct you on that in another comment.

    .

    * One guy I know very well told me this, after a long time. However, the white lady he married had always been a good bit overweight (not obese, by any means), and I really think it was his desire for a hotter lady that caused his divorce after so many years. Fatness matters! BTW, his ex-wife and mother of his grown kids is a very nice woman, and always has been. Some of his close family members didn't talk to him for a number of years after the divorce.
  116. @Anonymous
    They do want to marry *some* white women.

    You have to remember, only white men care about facial beauty to the extreme. White men care about pretty face and T&A. Black/Hispanic men care mostly about T&A and high sex drive. Jewish/Asian men care about thinness, low partner count (should be between 0-5), IQ, family social class, education, and income/wealth.

    You need to be a thin, smart, chaste, educated, UMC white woman to attract a Jewish or Asian man. But it's ok to have an ugly face and no curves.

    They do want to marry *some* white women.

    Utterly beside the point. If the manosphere theories about women were true, Black men would have the highest response rates, not the lowest.

    You have to remember, only white men care about facial beauty to the extreme.

    know they do, and that’s why I don’t feel sorry for these fake incels who refuse to pursue women that are attainable for them.

  117. @Twinkie
    I can’t see your attachments. By the way, Asians marry late in the U.S. - later than everyone else, but their overall marriage rate is the highest, for both men and women.

    As you know, though, an extreme fraction can skew the average significantly from the median. So there may be a minority of Asians who are disproportionately undersexed... which - if they are not married - is the right thing in my view.

    Let’s try again. (under more tag)

    [MORE]


    Maybe the different hosting site will do the trick? I’m unsure in any case of the value of the data, though, as I mentioned before.

    So there may be a minority of Asians who are disproportionately undersexed… which – if they are not married – is the right thing in my view.

    Can’t disagree there.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Thanks. I can see it now and will delve into the data.
    , @Twinkie

    I’m unsure in any case of the value of the data, though, as I mentioned before.
     
    I think the quality of data is highly suspect. 100% never married for Japanese-Americans? Sample size is much too small.
  118. @216
    In my experience, its less common for Asian males in the US to be as active in sports in HS. This carries over to university and adulthood. They also tend to be the most urbanized group.

    So in manosphere terminology, Asian-American males follow the beta strategy; which less successful in a post-industrial society dominated by a FIRE bubble. No matter how hard Mr. Beta works, he can't signal provider status until his 30s, especially in a coastal city. To the traditional "fob" group, a spouse can be imported from the Old Country.

    E. Rodger was mixed, as was another incel attacker at a lesser known killing in Oregon.

    ---
    Put it another way: Who probably appears more cringe-worthy? FrancoOntarian or BengaliCanadian

    Bengali, obviously.

    Anyways, neither of us are incels, while you are. So I see where the tension is coming from but I have to reject it as feminine and insecure.

    • Replies: @216
    Congratulations on getting married?
  119. @Rosie

    I see more situations of Asian guys trying to be friendly with white girls and white girls not being friendly back rather than vice versa.
     
    Look. Your casual personal observations are not evidence.

    The simple fact is that black men are the least desirable group to ALL groups of women except black women. Eventually, you're going to have to let go 9f the unsupported manosphere myths, however hard that might be on your ego.

    A 2014 study done by the OkCupid online dating service found that Asian men, not black men, were found least desirable by all groups of women. So, once again, white women don’t have to date black guys. They could date Asian guys if they wanted to.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    A 2014 study done by the OkCupid online dating service found that Asian men, not black men, were found least desirable by all groups of women. So, once again, white women don’t have to date black guys. They could date Asian guys if they wanted to.
     
    People like you are making this site exceedingly dull. You can't be reasoned with, so one just winds up having the same conversations over and over again.

    Then, you come up with a total non sequitur like this. Even if what you say is true, which I doubt, given that you didn't even site your own study, being unattractive is in no way a guarantee that you will date any given person. Asian men are not going to date the least attractive White women, which is precisely whom we are talking about here, individual exceptions notwithstanding.
    , @BengaliCanadianDude
    You've been proven wrong by your own study.
  120. @Mark G.
    A 2014 study done by the OkCupid online dating service found that Asian men, not black men, were found least desirable by all groups of women. So, once again, white women don't have to date black guys. They could date Asian guys if they wanted to.

    A 2014 study done by the OkCupid online dating service found that Asian men, not black men, were found least desirable by all groups of women. So, once again, white women don’t have to date black guys. They could date Asian guys if they wanted to.

    People like you are making this site exceedingly dull. You can’t be reasoned with, so one just winds up having the same conversations over and over again.

    Then, you come up with a total non sequitur like this. Even if what you say is true, which I doubt, given that you didn’t even site your own study, being unattractive is in no way a guarantee that you will date any given person. Asian men are not going to date the least attractive White women, which is precisely whom we are talking about here, individual exceptions notwithstanding.

  121. @Twinkie

    East Asian. They have to come from Asia or Africa.
     
    Asian, as the US Census defines the term.

    Malays and Indonesians are rare in the US. Indian Muslims are it and they are still a small fraction. I went over this a while back: http://www.unz.com/anepigone/deportation-nation/#comment-3066125

    There are roughly 15 million Asians in America (per 2010 Census). The big ones are:

    Chinese 3.5 million
    Indian 3 million* (50% Indian [Hindu], 18% Christian, and 10% Muslim per Pew)
    Filipino 2.6 million (a tiny insignificant minority Muslim)
    Vietnamese 1.6 million
    Korean 1.5 million
    Japanese 0.8 million

    That’s roughly 13 million (minus 0.3 million Indian Muslims) out of 15 million total.

    Those who are identifiably from Muslim countries are:

    Bangladeshi 0.14 million
    Indonesian 0.06 million
    Malaysian 0.02 million
    Pakistani 0.38 million

    That’s only 0.6 million out of 15 million (and that’s assuming the Indonesians and Malaysians are not ethnic Chinese who are likely disproportionately represented among immigrants). Add the 0.3 million Indian Muslims, we have 0.9 million Muslims among Asians in America, about 6% of the total.
     

    I know an Indonesian. She is a pretty 50 year old woman married to a 70 year old white guy.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    “Pretty”...”50 year old”...ok
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Derb's wife is Chinese, not Indonesian.
  122. Rosie, it’s “cite” not “site”. All you need to do is google it if you want to look at the study. Asian men aren’t going to date the least attractive white women but since they are the least popular group of men with women then a lot of white women have a good chance with them. So your original statement that some white women are going to be stuck dating black men because some white guys are dating Asian women just isn’t true. There are equal numbers of Asian men and Asian women so for every white guy dating an Asian girl there is an Asian guy for the white girl that can replace the white guy that is no longer available to the white girl. Simple math, Rosie.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    they are the least popular group of men with women
     
    Again, not what marriage rates say.

    Don’t confuse online dating preferences with general mating/marriage preferences.
    , @Rosie

    Asian men aren’t going to date the least attractive white women
     
    Right. So whom are they going to date?
    , @Rosie

    All you need to do is google it if you want to look at the study.
     
    I can't imagine telling someone else to Google something to support my arguments. In any event, I suppose this is what you were referring to...

    https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/799/1*NZbz63WenLrHWsNAcOrYsg.png

    You completely mischaracterized this study. Black men are by far the most repellent to both Asian women and Latinas. Asian men are slightly more repellent to White women than black men, though White women strongly prefer their own race. Manosphere b.s. simply cannot account for that and your failure to acknowledge that is profoundly dishonest on your part, but then it's been clear for a long time that truth is not really the point.
    , @BengaliCanadianDude

    ut since they are the least popular group of men with women
     
    The OkCupid study proves you wrong. And it's not a fair indicator in the first place, it's okcupid, and it obviously does not represent large population groups presciently.

    Marriage stats would disagree with you.

    https://imgur.com/a/hoqMY7c
  123. I just want all of you to know that sluts (raging or not) need to be loved by someone just like every other human being. (Even if it is only for a month, or a week, or a weekend, or, what the heck, a night.)

    Incels need the same, FWIW.

    And no, sex is not the same as love, but it is close enough for government work.

  124. @Jay Fink
    I know an Indonesian. She is a pretty 50 year old woman married to a 70 year old white guy.

    “Pretty”…”50 year old”…ok

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    Asian women age better than white women.
  125. “Pretty”…”50 year old”…ok”

    I will go a step further. There are plenty of attractive women over the age forty, fifth and up.

    Fifty, sixty and even seventy are not what they used to be if they ever were what they were considered then.

  126. @Mark G.
    Rosie, it's "cite" not "site". All you need to do is google it if you want to look at the study. Asian men aren't going to date the least attractive white women but since they are the least popular group of men with women then a lot of white women have a good chance with them. So your original statement that some white women are going to be stuck dating black men because some white guys are dating Asian women just isn't true. There are equal numbers of Asian men and Asian women so for every white guy dating an Asian girl there is an Asian guy for the white girl that can replace the white guy that is no longer available to the white girl. Simple math, Rosie.

    they are the least popular group of men with women

    Again, not what marriage rates say.

    Don’t confuse online dating preferences with general mating/marriage preferences.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    What women settle for in marriage once their looks are fading fast is hardly indicative of their actual preferences.
    , @Mark G.
    Twinkie, I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying Asian men are inferior to black men. I think they are superior and make better husbands. As women go higher up on the income and education scale they are more likely to pick Asian men over black men. Since marriage now primarily takes place among the wealthier and more educated, you can't take who marries who as representative of the general population. I think a problem that many of the commenters here have is that they themselves are of above average income and education. Due to that, they travel in circles of similar people that are not typical of the population in general and thus draw false conclusions from their observations.
  127. @RSDB
    Let's try again. (under more tag)

    https://i.snag.gy/ODI89A.jpg

    https://i.snag.gy/lIhMXO.jpg

    Maybe the different hosting site will do the trick? I'm unsure in any case of the value of the data, though, as I mentioned before.


    So there may be a minority of Asians who are disproportionately undersexed… which – if they are not married – is the right thing in my view.
     
    Can't disagree there.

    Thanks. I can see it now and will delve into the data.

  128. @Peter Frost
    I'm surprised there is no one from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Do Americans consider those countries to be in Europe?

    They are “white” according to our census, “arabs” or “indians” for the average person, and often “MENAs” for other statistical purposes.

    When the average American hears “Asian” it is NE or SE Asian. In 95% of the USA South Asians and Arabs are rare.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    In 95% of the USA South Asians and Arabs are rare.

    I'm sorry but that's not my impression when I go to the States.
    , @iffen
    In 95% of the USA South Asians and Arabs are rare.

    You must never shop at convenience stores or stay in budget motels.
  129. @Mark G.
    Rosie, it's "cite" not "site". All you need to do is google it if you want to look at the study. Asian men aren't going to date the least attractive white women but since they are the least popular group of men with women then a lot of white women have a good chance with them. So your original statement that some white women are going to be stuck dating black men because some white guys are dating Asian women just isn't true. There are equal numbers of Asian men and Asian women so for every white guy dating an Asian girl there is an Asian guy for the white girl that can replace the white guy that is no longer available to the white girl. Simple math, Rosie.

    Asian men aren’t going to date the least attractive white women

    Right. So whom are they going to date?

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
    Rosie,

    Isn't that a bit negative? Of course we don't have to stick with the low 5s. We can and do get better looking ones.
    , @SFG
    From what I've seen, relatively nerdy white women who find their (on average) more introverted personalities more suitable. But that's who I've seen. I'm sure an Asian guy who takes up sports and tries to win as many 'man points' as possible can expand his range of women.

    The HBD angle of it is pretty interesting. You have cultures with commonalities (Chinese and Jewish) that never would have met in the preindustrial era producing disproportionate numbers of unions, and some groups assimilate to Western society a lot better than others. Thought, to be honest, we got the SATs from the British civil service exam, which they got from the Chinese to begin with...
    , @Jay Fink
    My incel Chinese-American friend is only interested in hot looking white women. He has his mind set on being alone for life if he can't find one. This is different than many black guys who are often attracted to unattractive, obese white women.
  130. @Mark G.
    Rosie, it's "cite" not "site". All you need to do is google it if you want to look at the study. Asian men aren't going to date the least attractive white women but since they are the least popular group of men with women then a lot of white women have a good chance with them. So your original statement that some white women are going to be stuck dating black men because some white guys are dating Asian women just isn't true. There are equal numbers of Asian men and Asian women so for every white guy dating an Asian girl there is an Asian guy for the white girl that can replace the white guy that is no longer available to the white girl. Simple math, Rosie.

    All you need to do is google it if you want to look at the study.

    I can’t imagine telling someone else to Google something to support my arguments. In any event, I suppose this is what you were referring to…

    You completely mischaracterized this study. Black men are by far the most repellent to both Asian women and Latinas. Asian men are slightly more repellent to White women than black men, though White women strongly prefer their own race. Manosphere b.s. simply cannot account for that and your failure to acknowledge that is profoundly dishonest on your part, but then it’s been clear for a long time that truth is not really the point.

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
    Is OkCupid really the best way to discern and identify the general sentiments present within seperate population groups and their opinions of each other?


    Good to see we do slightly better than Blacks
  131. South Asians are grouped in with Asians yet again smh we’ve been over this AE it should be distinguished and the distinction should be made….

    Guess they had a lot of Single Asian males/females as part of the survey, because look at the dichotomy for the numbers between Asian and Married….maybe Asians dont get married a lot in the good ol’ US of A…

    26 percent?!?! Fellow Asians, you need to raise your game. No joke. It’s not even about looks man(or women). Take it from me> Self-depreciating but true. Need to be more outgoing

  132. @Rosie

    All you need to do is google it if you want to look at the study.
     
    I can't imagine telling someone else to Google something to support my arguments. In any event, I suppose this is what you were referring to...

    https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/799/1*NZbz63WenLrHWsNAcOrYsg.png

    You completely mischaracterized this study. Black men are by far the most repellent to both Asian women and Latinas. Asian men are slightly more repellent to White women than black men, though White women strongly prefer their own race. Manosphere b.s. simply cannot account for that and your failure to acknowledge that is profoundly dishonest on your part, but then it's been clear for a long time that truth is not really the point.

    Is OkCupid really the best way to discern and identify the general sentiments present within seperate population groups and their opinions of each other?

    Good to see we do slightly better than Blacks

  133. @Twinkie

    I’m surprised there is no one from Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc. Do Americans consider those countries to be in Europe?
     
    Middle Easterners are typically classified as whites in the United States, at least by the Census. Even so, the numbers of people from those countries are quite small. The largest Middle Eastern population in the U.S. is Lebanese who are in the majority Christian here and well-assimilated.

    By the way, the large Muslim demographic in the U.S. is (native-born) black.

    the large Muslim demographic in the U.S. is (native-born) black.

    Yes, because of the Nation of Islam, Elijah Muhammad and all that garbage.

  134. @Mark G.
    Rosie, it's "cite" not "site". All you need to do is google it if you want to look at the study. Asian men aren't going to date the least attractive white women but since they are the least popular group of men with women then a lot of white women have a good chance with them. So your original statement that some white women are going to be stuck dating black men because some white guys are dating Asian women just isn't true. There are equal numbers of Asian men and Asian women so for every white guy dating an Asian girl there is an Asian guy for the white girl that can replace the white guy that is no longer available to the white girl. Simple math, Rosie.

    ut since they are the least popular group of men with women

    The OkCupid study proves you wrong. And it’s not a fair indicator in the first place, it’s okcupid, and it obviously does not represent large population groups presciently.

    Marriage stats would disagree with you.

    View post on imgur.com

  135. @Rosie

    Asian men aren’t going to date the least attractive white women
     
    Right. So whom are they going to date?

    Rosie,

    Isn’t that a bit negative? Of course we don’t have to stick with the low 5s. We can and do get better looking ones.

  136. @Mark G.
    A 2014 study done by the OkCupid online dating service found that Asian men, not black men, were found least desirable by all groups of women. So, once again, white women don't have to date black guys. They could date Asian guys if they wanted to.

    You’ve been proven wrong by your own study.

  137. @songbird
    Those Vietnamese numbers are interesting. I was under the impression that they were somewhat like Cubans. Those who fled favor Republicans. The youth cohorts don't. Of course, I think Trump's anti-China rhetoric may bias the results some.

    I think Trump’s anti-China rhetoric may bias the results some

    And boy oh boy do the Viets hate the Chinese…..remember this nice pretty Vietnamese girl at this one seminar I went to a long time ago….we talked with each other…very fluent in English…and naturally I asked about the CHinese and their own thoughts on the matter…she just switched into this gear..and she started telling me about how they are like the Devil incarnate or something and how they are evil and bad with this raging fanaticism(raging as in intense not loud shouting, fist banging on the table stuff).. Was really interesting. Ran into her a week ago at Costco, and we still talked a lot. I see why, but it was really interesting to see

  138. @Lot
    They are “white” according to our census, “arabs” or “indians” for the average person, and often “MENAs” for other statistical purposes.

    When the average American hears “Asian” it is NE or SE Asian. In 95% of the USA South Asians and Arabs are rare.

    In 95% of the USA South Asians and Arabs are rare.

    I’m sorry but that’s not my impression when I go to the States.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Except on universities and in university towns, Peter, where you see ALL types, you should separate these two. There are .Indians spread out all over this country. Do you people not go to convenience stores ever? (They're very convenient!) Arabs or serious Moslems decked out in the garb are not ubiquitous except for very specific areas such as Dearbornistan/Detroit (it can't hurt, right?). You see a sprinkling of them more than before though, and that is disconcerting to me.
  139. @L Woods
    This is overstated. Overcredentialed women may not marry undercredentialed men, but they get fucked by GED-holding chads all the time. Clearing the credential bar basically means you get to skip straight to the part that sucks (ie marriage), very possibly raising someone else’s offspring.

    I said this on another thread and got called an idiot for it. Yet I see this with my own eyes constantly. As I said before, “Alpha F*x, Beta Bux” became a phrase for a reason.

  140. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Bengali, obviously.

    Anyways, neither of us are incels, while you are. So I see where the tension is coming from but I have to reject it as feminine and insecure.

    Congratulations on getting married?

  141. @Lot
    They are “white” according to our census, “arabs” or “indians” for the average person, and often “MENAs” for other statistical purposes.

    When the average American hears “Asian” it is NE or SE Asian. In 95% of the USA South Asians and Arabs are rare.

    In 95% of the USA South Asians and Arabs are rare.

    You must never shop at convenience stores or stay in budget motels.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  142. @Twinkie

    they are the least popular group of men with women
     
    Again, not what marriage rates say.

    Don’t confuse online dating preferences with general mating/marriage preferences.

    What women settle for in marriage once their looks are fading fast is hardly indicative of their actual preferences.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    settle for in marriage once their looks are fading fast
     
    That’s a very peculiar assumption for the general population.
    , @Anonymous
    That exactly.
  143. @Twinkie

    But the spouse *must* be thin, have a high IQ, come from a family with a good reputation, be educated, have either significant income or wealth, and not be a slut.
     
    Those are class markers.

    Exactly. Most Jews are middle class or higher, and most East Asians plan to be. ‘White’ includes everyone from a tenth-generation Harvard grad in Beacon Hill to a drug addict on the street. I imagine most well-off whites are thinking like the Jews and Asians mentioned earlier.

  144. @Twinkie

    Whereas Asian men and White women are similar in height.
     
    Average Korean male height among the younger generation is 5’8.5”(the US non-Hispanic white average is 5’9.5”). Average American white female height is 5’4.5” (Koreans are the tallest men in Asia, and have experienced a massive height gain in the past 30 years). So, by your logic, it’s not surprising that among American-born Asians, Koreans (both males and females) have the highest intermarriage rates with whites. It also helps that 70-80% of Koreans in America are Christians.

    By the way, I’m 6’2” and my white wife is 5’9”.

    It’s not uncommon for White women to... weigh more than Asian men.
     
    Obesity rates are much higher among whites than Asians, esp. among women.

    A 6’2″ Asian? You have some edges your cousins don’t, I’ll tell you that.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    A 6’2″ Asian? You have some edges your cousins don’t, I’ll tell you that.
     
    Yup. The height never hurt, except when on small airplanes and crawling in tunnels.
  145. @L Woods
    What women settle for in marriage once their looks are fading fast is hardly indicative of their actual preferences.

    settle for in marriage once their looks are fading fast

    That’s a very peculiar assumption for the general population.

  146. @SFG
    A 6'2" Asian? You have some edges your cousins don't, I'll tell you that.

    A 6’2″ Asian? You have some edges your cousins don’t, I’ll tell you that.

    Yup. The height never hurt, except when on small airplanes and crawling in tunnels.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Being about two SDs above the mean seems to be optimal in the dating market for traits like height and intelligence. Being even further above the mean than that can be harmful for dating prospects. All other traits being equal, a man who is 6'3 with an IQ of 130 is tops.
  147. SFG says:
    @Rosie

    Asian men aren’t going to date the least attractive white women
     
    Right. So whom are they going to date?

    From what I’ve seen, relatively nerdy white women who find their (on average) more introverted personalities more suitable. But that’s who I’ve seen. I’m sure an Asian guy who takes up sports and tries to win as many ‘man points’ as possible can expand his range of women.

    The HBD angle of it is pretty interesting. You have cultures with commonalities (Chinese and Jewish) that never would have met in the preindustrial era producing disproportionate numbers of unions, and some groups assimilate to Western society a lot better than others. Thought, to be honest, we got the SATs from the British civil service exam, which they got from the Chinese to begin with…

  148. @RSDB

    Geography might as well be Greek.
     
    It is: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/γεωγραφία#Ancient_Greek

    Heh!

  149. @Twinkie

    That’s only part of the story, though, because there are legions of sexless Japanese men in 99+% Japan today.
     
    Have you considered the possibility that they might be more honest in answering such a question than their American counterparts?

    In personally sensitive subjects such as sex, I suspect there is a greater gap between revealed and stated preferences in the U.S., which is amply demonstrated by the abortion question.

    Sure, though it looks like Asians in the US answer similarly. Maybe they are just more honest about it, but these results more-or-less accord with my personal experience.

  150. @Rosie

    I see more situations of Asian guys trying to be friendly with white girls and white girls not being friendly back rather than vice versa.
     
    Look. Your casual personal observations are not evidence.

    The simple fact is that black men are the least desirable group to ALL groups of women except black women. Eventually, you're going to have to let go 9f the unsupported manosphere myths, however hard that might be on your ego.

    No, your dating-site graphics have some truth, but are way too simplistic, Rosie. I’ll give you anecdotal evidence, but it’s from quite a few Oriental guys I know. They like white chicks. The ones that like them like bigger boobs*, and they are not in it for the personalities, I guarantee you.

    I’m not saying they wouldn’t be happy with Oriental ladies, especially if they live in an unassimilated community, and there are lots now, the way things are going. They just have a fetish for white girls.

    You’ve got your manosphere myths wrong, anyway, but I can correct you on that in another comment.

    .

    * One guy I know very well told me this, after a long time. However, the white lady he married had always been a good bit overweight (not obese, by any means), and I really think it was his desire for a hotter lady that caused his divorce after so many years. Fatness matters! BTW, his ex-wife and mother of his grown kids is a very nice woman, and always has been. Some of his close family members didn’t talk to him for a number of years after the divorce.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Some of his close family members didn’t talk to him for a number of years after the divorce.

    Good for them.
  151. @Twinkie
    Another thing I find a bit odd about the data is that 99% of married people had sex at least once in the past year. And Asians have the highest marriage rates (and the lowest divorce rates):

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4850739/bin/nihms777225f1.jpg

    Something doesn't jive well with the data (although there is, of course, a possibility that the non-married Asians are particularly prone to "no sex last year" category).

    Among unmarried, sex frequency from most to least is black, Hispanic, white, Asian in the GSS. I may look at that in more detail. There isn’t much difference among married, though GSS shows about 6% as sexless rather than 1%.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Among unmarried, sex frequency from most to least is black, Hispanic, white, Asian in the GSS.
     
    I would expect this. And unsurprisingly bastardy rates run the same way.
    https://mediadc.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/b4c1aa0/2147483647/strip/true/crop/400x283+0+0/resize/400x283!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediadc.brightspotcdn.com%2F49%2Fce%2F5b8153304c375edfe12fcd98a31b%2Fexdc5-6usuxgyzo34ru8aa8vy-layout.jpg

    There isn’t much difference among married
     
    That’s why I found the data a bit odd, because Asians have the highest marriage rates.
  152. @Peter Frost
    In 95% of the USA South Asians and Arabs are rare.

    I'm sorry but that's not my impression when I go to the States.

    Except on universities and in university towns, Peter, where you see ALL types, you should separate these two. There are .Indians spread out all over this country. Do you people not go to convenience stores ever? (They’re very convenient!) Arabs or serious Moslems decked out in the garb are not ubiquitous except for very specific areas such as Dearbornistan/Detroit (it can’t hurt, right?). You see a sprinkling of them more than before though, and that is disconcerting to me.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    Except on universities and in university towns, Peter, where you see ALL types, you should separate these two.

    I would agree with you if we were having this discussion twenty years ago. I wouldn't today. On my last few trips to the U.S. I encountered quite a few South Asian and African immigrants, and I'm pretty sure they weren't university students or professors.

    Their numbers may have been relatively small on the last U.S. census, but a lot of people have moved to the U.S. since 2010, and I suspect a lot of immigrants are missed by census takers.

    Do you people not go to convenience stores ever?

    We do. They're called dépanneurs in Quebec.

  153. @Twinkie

    Thsre can be no doubt White male + Asian female are the most privileged.
     
    I don’t know about that. Asian male-whites female couples have the highest average income.
    https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/4f3d4337eab8eaef54000042-480-712.jpg

    My use of privileged is pretty sloppy–I just meant in terms of realized sexual access, nothing else.

  154. @Rosie

    But I forgive you – as a white HBDer, distorting data in favor of blacks in the sexual realm, and of Jews and Asians in the intellectual , are in your DNA 🙂 Just another symptom of late Western decline…
     
    It's the manosphere influence. Their whole schtick depends on the notion that White women prefer thuggish "alphas" (read: black men) Evidence to the contrary is ignored.

    I am not part of any of the manosphere websites, though I would happily join any cause like the MRA that support justice in family law. I don’t like to see men treated like the slaves of yesteryear by family courts and the highly-screwed-up American “justice system”.

    That aside, cause it was not the point, I think you get this wrong. The Alpha/Beta/Gamma business has lots of truth to it, but no, it doesn’t explain everything, and not all women like the same thing in men. Some even have a little integrity, but its in short supply. The thing about them liking black men so much, nah! The big fat white tattooed chicks have no choice possibly, but .. oh, they could slim down, I forgot about that. I also think some of them want to “stick it” to the family by dating black men. Anyway, alphas don’t equal black men from the bit I’ve read.

    What those manosphere sites (the Heartistes, etc) do for some men, even if they don’t want to be totally dishonest (often the way to a woman’s heart body), is to show some confidence that they don’t yet really have. I suppose you could say that’s a little dishonest, but confidence is an emotion, so …

    I truly would have been better off learning some of that stuff had I’d read more or talked to the right people. I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no” and a lot of other things about women’s innate compulsion to lie, so that he can get laid more easily. It’s very important that he not expect women to be “men of their word”, though I teach him to be a man of his word. It just doesn’t work the same, and he needs to understand that while still young.

    A big problem is that women want to think that men want what the women want them to want. It doesn’t work that way. Men want women with very obvious curves. That is job 1. We know what we want, and all the tweets in the world about fat women rocking and such don’t change the truth.

    Your big argument against this post will be your emotion coming out to tell me that “no, it’s NOT this way” because you DON’T WANT IT TO BE THIS WAY. You have been exhibit A as a teaching tool in the comments here, and I appreciate that a lot. I seek truth, and I will teach my son to seek truth. I’m sorry the truth upsets you so much, Rosie.

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian

    I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no” and a lot of other things about women’s innate compulsion to lie, so that he can get laid more easily.
     
    There's a story of how this approach didn't end well:

    (...) Here's where things go from bad to dangerous. Trent has been following TRP advice to a T yet nothing is working as it should. Brittney is clearly unhappy and Trent is frustrated that nothing is working. He thinks it's because he isn't doing it right. He posts on forums and gets opinions. They almost always state to either dump her or step up his Alpha game. Trent, not used to having a girlfriend, of course doesn't want to dump her, so he follows the advice. One piece of advice that got popular attention was to basically just do what he wanted to do with her. They kept feeding him lies about how she would act like she disliked it but really she liked it, it was just built into her nature to not ask for it or show that she likes it. The "scientific" articles only further convinced him.

    Like I said, Brittney is a shy and sweet girl, so right away I did not like this idea. I even told him she would probably break up if he kept acting like a douche. But he brushed me off and said TRP had gotten him this far and has "proven" effective (again, he forgets all the times it failed).

    So we end up at a party, and Trent's big idea is to talk to other girls while basically ignoring her, with the logic that she'll end up drinking and/or eventually get so territorial that she'll take him away from the other girls and screw him in order to show them who he belongs to. Yeah, I know, it sounds stupid now, but even though I had some doubts, it still sounded somewhat logical at the time. Anyway, this doesn't work as planned. She ends up getting hurt feelings and goes into another room to cry. I go back there and try to make her feel better, but I'm terrible at these things... Eventually he notices she isn't there and finds us in another room, her clearly upset, so he tries to comfort her, but also ends up somewhat insulting her. She tells him she feels like he doesn't like her or respect her, and that maybe they aren't working out. At this point I decide this is too personal so I wait outside.

    I don't know all the details but apparently Trent decided to just "go for it" like others suggested. Brittney did not like that, at all, and ended up punching him and pushing him off of her, then cussing him out and running out of the room. Since I was the driver, I offered to take her home (without Trent). That ride was awkward as fuck, but mostly I was shocked that Trent actually tried to force himself on Brittney even after she made it clear she didn't want it. I tried to explain to her that Trent had been following some bad advice, but (understandably) she didn't care what he had read, she cared that he tried to do something bad and she wanted nothing to do with him anymore. (...) https://archive.fo/BYCk1
     
    Courtesy of https://kiwifarms.net/threads/r-theredpill-reddits-very-own-sluthate.14993/ , their post has 26 more examples (Exhibits A - Z, lol) of ruined relationships after men got red pilled. Kiwi Farmers are mostly guys by the way, and they mock feminists equally.
    , @Rosie

    . I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no” and a lot of other things
     
    And then come here and bitch about an epidemic of false rape allegations, no doubt.
  155. @AaronB

    Black male/white female pairings are three times as frequent as white male/black female pairings, while white male/Asian female pairings are similarly three times as frequent as Asian male/white female pairings. As a consequence, black men and Asian women have the most dating privilege, white men and white women a middling amount, and Asian men and black women the least.
     
    That obviously is bad logic.

    1) Whites three time as frequent pairings with Asians cancels out black three times as frequent pairings with white women - which is obviously a consequence of the relative unattractiveness of black women, anyways. Which actually means the white advantage with Asians dwarfs the black advantage with whites, which isn't even real on second look.

    And then the actual numbers, not just the ratios, are the significant factors here.

    Its well known whites have the greatest dating advantage in the US.

    Really bad logic, AE -I'm shocked at you! You're not stupid, but this was....

    But I forgive you - as a white HBDer, distorting data in favor of blacks in the sexual realm, and of Jews and Asians in the intellectual , are in your DNA :) Just another symptom of late Western decline...

    That’s only part of the story, though, because there are legions of sexless Japanese men in 99+% Japan today.
     
    Complete and total myth.

    Prostitution is enormous and widespread and fully accepted in Japan, and everyone uses it.

    Japanese have available to them all the sex they could possibly desire, and more.

    Now relationships, that's another matter...

    Huh? I didn’t say blacks had a dating advantage over whites overall. Outside of skewed sex ratios, that wouldn’t even be possible. The advantage/disadvantage in this context necessarily relies on both race and sex (ie black men are more interracially successful than black women and Asian women are more interracially successful than Asian men).

    Here’s a writeup critical of the sensationalist “Japanese are sexless” Western take that nonetheless reports that a little over 20% of Japanese men between the ages of 18-39 are virgins.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Ah, I see - you were merely saying that black men are more desirable than their own women by the widest margin, and Asian women are more desirable than their own men by the widest margin.

    These are within group comparisons, not assessments of overall cross-racial attractiveness.

    Then that makes sense, and I agree.

    Btw, I tried answering your posts about Buddhism on the other thread but comments are closed.

  156. @Clemsnman
    What is wrong with the term "orientals" to refer to Japanese-Korean-Chinese and SE ASians? Using the broad term "Asian" is asinine because Indians are completely different from orientals.

    Stop the PC nonsense, it confuses the data.

    Stop the PC nonsense, it confuses the data.

    Right on, Clemson Tiger! You are preaching to the deacon here – I don’t care if I have to put this link in daily – Oriental is the term and we’re done talkin’ about it.

  157. @Sid
    wrt Jews:

    I have a hard time believing their percentages would be that much lower than for white Gentiles. Whites and Hispanics having nearly identical percentages makes a lot of sense, and while I can believe that it would be lower for Jews, that low of a number sounds inaccurate to me.

    wrt Asian female dating privilege:

    Asian women definitely have more options than Asian men. Since the Great Awokening took off, Asian-American politics have bifurcated along gender. Asian women have become far more Woke, and they try to masquerade their dating privilege with NYT pieces along the lines of, "Let's talk about how it's GROSS how all these white guys want me!"

    In the past, Asian-American women were considered a sanctuary from white grrrl feminism. That's changed; now Asian-American women are about as obnoxiously SJW as white American women are. A number of white Millennial men I know who had Yellow Fever back in the day grumble about that.

    In contrast, Asian men seem to be getting friendlier with right-wing nationalist and populist politics. The Hispanic Heritage Survey found a majority of Asian male Zoomers backed Trump. Andrew Yang isn't right-wing, but he's far and away the the best Democratic candidate, and the only one I could imagine voting for over Trump.

    I support the Ice Men Alliance when it comes to the sexual market place. White men should stay away from Asian-American women, especially if Asian men support our politics. And yes, I am not allow bn male Caucasion female Asian female grand parent cry

    wrt Bachelorhood vs Married Life:

    Exceedingly few men will get more sex out of Eternal Bachelorhood than Married Life. And if they can, there's no guarantee it will stay that way over the years. And if they can manage it, they may yet not be interested in keeping it going forever. The example of Roosh V is highly telling.

    Exceedingly few men will get more sex out of Eternal Bachelorhood than Married Life. And if they can, there’s no guarantee it will stay that way over the years. And if they can manage it, they may yet not be interested in keeping it going forever. The example of Roosh V is highly telling.

    As the novelty wears off and the ability to catch birds becomes more difficult with age, a bird in hand increasingly comes to look better than any number free to wander.

    • Replies: @216
    Some who pulled a Leo Strauss on Roosh's writings alleged that he was basically running a numbers game, and that his pickup ability was nothing near what his reputation implied.

    The free content was enough vicarious living for me, I never had interest in living the lifestyle.

    ---

    The manosphere dislikes the idea of a "Male wall", but there are socially useful reasons to construct such a wall and place it one or two years behind the female Wall.

    Perhaps its White Knighting, but there's also a case for younger men to c*ckblock the men of a certain age. Not an encouragement for Incel to go on an E. Rodger bloodbath, but their appearance at certain bars could be a "turd in the punch bowl".
  158. @Twinkie

    Jews get a bad rap for putative sexual perversion, but that reeks of jealousy to me!
     
    I thought that was, not so much jealousy, but from Jews being disproportionately represented among the alleged perpetrators in the #metoo accusations as well as homosexuals and such.

    I’m just lamely trolling there. It’s probably a whole host of factors–high population density, higher sexual desire, higher rates of homosexuality, greater SES, higher intelligence, higher openness to experience, more political liberalism, etc.

  159. @Clemsnman
    What is wrong with the term "orientals" to refer to Japanese-Korean-Chinese and SE ASians? Using the broad term "Asian" is asinine because Indians are completely different from orientals.

    Stop the PC nonsense, it confuses the data.

    I understand the sentiment, but we use what we have available to us. How to I classify “other Asian” from a survey, for example? I don’t know. They could be Mongolian or Sri Lankan–no way to tell from the data as recorded.

  160. @Jay Fink
    I know an Indonesian. She is a pretty 50 year old woman married to a 70 year old white guy.

    Derb’s wife is Chinese, not Indonesian.

  161. @Twinkie

    A 6’2″ Asian? You have some edges your cousins don’t, I’ll tell you that.
     
    Yup. The height never hurt, except when on small airplanes and crawling in tunnels.

    Being about two SDs above the mean seems to be optimal in the dating market for traits like height and intelligence. Being even further above the mean than that can be harmful for dating prospects. All other traits being equal, a man who is 6’3 with an IQ of 130 is tops.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Being about two SDs above the mean seems to be optimal in the dating market for traits like height and intelligence. Being even further above the mean than that can be harmful for dating prospects. All other traits being equal, a man who is 6’3 with an IQ of 130 is tops.
     
    Yes, I'm pretty lucky with height - I didn't do a darn thing for it, I just inherited that from my short parents (whose height were depressed due to malnutrition and protein deprivation in their youths). My wife thinks that I am the perfect height - tallish, but not freakishly or ungainly tall.

    My IQ is considerably above 130 (my parents had me tested when I was young, because they were a bit worried about how precocious I was), and it's true that average women and I didn't mesh well. My wife told me, in her very typically complimentary fashion, that I intimidated them. And frankly I found most women unintelligent. I solved that problem by going to selective universities and hanging out among women with closer (if not quite equal)* cognitive profiles. Of the two other women I dated before my wife, one is now a diplomat for her country and the other is a physician renowned in her field.

    *My wife has a STEM doctorate and I but a Ph.D. in history, but she readily admits that I am much smarter than she is (I used to write her papers for her in college and helped her with her graduate work too, though she can probably do regression analyses much better than I can these days and she is much less of a Luddite than I am - she has an Apple Watch while I still wear a mechanical watch and use old phones).
  162. @Achmed E. Newman
    Except on universities and in university towns, Peter, where you see ALL types, you should separate these two. There are .Indians spread out all over this country. Do you people not go to convenience stores ever? (They're very convenient!) Arabs or serious Moslems decked out in the garb are not ubiquitous except for very specific areas such as Dearbornistan/Detroit (it can't hurt, right?). You see a sprinkling of them more than before though, and that is disconcerting to me.

    Except on universities and in university towns, Peter, where you see ALL types, you should separate these two.

    I would agree with you if we were having this discussion twenty years ago. I wouldn’t today. On my last few trips to the U.S. I encountered quite a few South Asian and African immigrants, and I’m pretty sure they weren’t university students or professors.

    Their numbers may have been relatively small on the last U.S. census, but a lot of people have moved to the U.S. since 2010, and I suspect a lot of immigrants are missed by census takers.

    Do you people not go to convenience stores ever?

    We do. They’re called dépanneurs in Quebec.

    • Replies: @iffen
    and African immigrants, and I’m pretty sure they weren’t university students or professors

    On my last trip to Florida I stayed at a motel that was staffed by Haitians. They impressed me as knowing how to run a decent motel.

    I say Haitians because I detected a French accent. I suppose that they could have be from some of the other islands.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    We ARE in agreement, Mr. Frost. I said separate Arabs/Moslems from .Indians. Yes the .Indians are all around, and Africans are increasing in number, but the latter mostly in the big cities, from my experience.

    I think the ones missed the most are likely the Chinese illegal immigrants, and there are millions. They still try to stay in the "shadows", as they are not yet wise to how damn stupid this country is yet on immigration, versus the illegal Hispanics.


    They’re called dépanneurs in Quebec.
     
    Yeah, but do they have Moon Pies and Yoohoo? ;-}
  163. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @L Woods
    What women settle for in marriage once their looks are fading fast is hardly indicative of their actual preferences.

    That exactly.

  164. @Peter Frost
    Except on universities and in university towns, Peter, where you see ALL types, you should separate these two.

    I would agree with you if we were having this discussion twenty years ago. I wouldn't today. On my last few trips to the U.S. I encountered quite a few South Asian and African immigrants, and I'm pretty sure they weren't university students or professors.

    Their numbers may have been relatively small on the last U.S. census, but a lot of people have moved to the U.S. since 2010, and I suspect a lot of immigrants are missed by census takers.

    Do you people not go to convenience stores ever?

    We do. They're called dépanneurs in Quebec.

    and African immigrants, and I’m pretty sure they weren’t university students or professors

    On my last trip to Florida I stayed at a motel that was staffed by Haitians. They impressed me as knowing how to run a decent motel.

    I say Haitians because I detected a French accent. I suppose that they could have be from some of the other islands.

  165. @RSDB
    Let's try again. (under more tag)

    https://i.snag.gy/ODI89A.jpg

    https://i.snag.gy/lIhMXO.jpg

    Maybe the different hosting site will do the trick? I'm unsure in any case of the value of the data, though, as I mentioned before.


    So there may be a minority of Asians who are disproportionately undersexed… which – if they are not married – is the right thing in my view.
     
    Can't disagree there.

    I’m unsure in any case of the value of the data, though, as I mentioned before.

    I think the quality of data is highly suspect. 100% never married for Japanese-Americans? Sample size is much too small.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    The Asian samples in the GSS are always small. When the total annual cohort is in the 1500-2000 respondent range, fewer than 100 "Asians"--and that includes all of them, East Asian, South Asian, Southeast Asian, Central Asians--get sampled each year. There is a lot of noise, especially if one tries to hone in on a specific country.
    , @RSDB
    Agree, though I don't have the button, and though the estimate -Asians (South and East) being somewhat more chaste than whites on average and much more so than blacks- roughly fits my expectations.

    (Re "much more", while in AE's plot there is not such a great difference, a much lower proportion of surveyed black men are married than white men).

    I will, however, take the rest of this comment, since I'm making one, to offer miscellaneous opinions on other topics on this thread; I'll put these under the "More" tag as they are disconnected from this conversation.

    With respect to dating sites, one issue that occurs to me is that the free ones are supposed to have a certain number of fake or scam profiles, which may confuse the data somewhat. Bearing this in mind, it's still interesting and amusing that, as per statistics posted here, while most messages either way get ignored, men are much more likely to respond to women than vice versa.

    Re "riding the white horse", despite the Ballad of the White Horse being one of my favorite poems, the phrase has an extremely vulgar ring to my ears, perhaps because of the connotations of "riding" in American culture, or at least that part of it with which I am familiar. The "carousel" image popular with the manosphere did not come out of thin air. Perhaps to Korean ears these associations are not present.

    As far as South Asians considering white women attractive-- they do. However, their parents are generally rather less enthusiastic. This assessment is based entirely on personal observation, but to support it one can find people asking questions online such as: Why doesn't my Indian boyfriend tell his parents about me, his white American girlfriend? Though of course there are obvious exceptions, especially with Christians (and probably Muslims too) where caste is less of an issue.

    In Ceylon, at least, while one can find Russian prostitutes if one is so inclined -to a lesser extent than in richer countries-, there are enough whites that blondes are not mistaken for prostitutes, though they may be thought to be "easy".

  166. @Achmed E. Newman
    No, your dating-site graphics have some truth, but are way too simplistic, Rosie. I'll give you anecdotal evidence, but it's from quite a few Oriental guys I know. They like white chicks. The ones that like them like bigger boobs*, and they are not in it for the personalities, I guarantee you.

    I'm not saying they wouldn't be happy with Oriental ladies, especially if they live in an unassimilated community, and there are lots now, the way things are going. They just have a fetish for white girls.

    You've got your manosphere myths wrong, anyway, but I can correct you on that in another comment.

    .

    * One guy I know very well told me this, after a long time. However, the white lady he married had always been a good bit overweight (not obese, by any means), and I really think it was his desire for a hotter lady that caused his divorce after so many years. Fatness matters! BTW, his ex-wife and mother of his grown kids is a very nice woman, and always has been. Some of his close family members didn't talk to him for a number of years after the divorce.

    Some of his close family members didn’t talk to him for a number of years after the divorce.

    Good for them.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    They're all good people, but the guy in question is my friend.
  167. @L Woods
    “Pretty”...”50 year old”...ok

    Asian women age better than white women.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Nothing but truth.
  168. @Rosie

    Asian men aren’t going to date the least attractive white women
     
    Right. So whom are they going to date?

    My incel Chinese-American friend is only interested in hot looking white women. He has his mind set on being alone for life if he can’t find one. This is different than many black guys who are often attracted to unattractive, obese white women.

    • Replies: @216
    Chin better hit the gym if he wants to be Chan.

    The Virgin Chinese vs the Chad Mongolian
  169. @Achmed E. Newman
    I am not part of any of the manosphere websites, though I would happily join any cause like the MRA that support justice in family law. I don't like to see men treated like the slaves of yesteryear by family courts and the highly-screwed-up American "justice system".

    That aside, cause it was not the point, I think you get this wrong. The Alpha/Beta/Gamma business has lots of truth to it, but no, it doesn't explain everything, and not all women like the same thing in men. Some even have a little integrity, but its in short supply. The thing about them liking black men so much, nah! The big fat white tattooed chicks have no choice possibly, but .. oh, they could slim down, I forgot about that. I also think some of them want to "stick it" to the family by dating black men. Anyway, alphas don't equal black men from the bit I've read.

    What those manosphere sites (the Heartistes, etc) do for some men, even if they don't want to be totally dishonest (often the way to a woman's heart body), is to show some confidence that they don't yet really have. I suppose you could say that's a little dishonest, but confidence is an emotion, so ...

    I truly would have been better off learning some of that stuff had I'd read more or talked to the right people. I will teach my boy that "no" does not necessarily mean "no" and a lot of other things about women's innate compulsion to lie, so that he can get laid more easily. It's very important that he not expect women to be "men of their word", though I teach him to be a man of his word. It just doesn't work the same, and he needs to understand that while still young.

    A big problem is that women want to think that men want what the women want them to want. It doesn't work that way. Men want women with very obvious curves. That is job 1. We know what we want, and all the tweets in the world about fat women rocking and such don't change the truth.

    Your big argument against this post will be your emotion coming out to tell me that "no, it's NOT this way" because you DON'T WANT IT TO BE THIS WAY. You have been exhibit A as a teaching tool in the comments here, and I appreciate that a lot. I seek truth, and I will teach my son to seek truth. I'm sorry the truth upsets you so much, Rosie.

    I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no” and a lot of other things about women’s innate compulsion to lie, so that he can get laid more easily.

    There’s a story of how this approach didn’t end well:

    (…) Here’s where things go from bad to dangerous. Trent has been following TRP advice to a T yet nothing is working as it should. Brittney is clearly unhappy and Trent is frustrated that nothing is working. He thinks it’s because he isn’t doing it right. He posts on forums and gets opinions. They almost always state to either dump her or step up his Alpha game. Trent, not used to having a girlfriend, of course doesn’t want to dump her, so he follows the advice. One piece of advice that got popular attention was to basically just do what he wanted to do with her. They kept feeding him lies about how she would act like she disliked it but really she liked it, it was just built into her nature to not ask for it or show that she likes it. The “scientific” articles only further convinced him.

    Like I said, Brittney is a shy and sweet girl, so right away I did not like this idea. I even told him she would probably break up if he kept acting like a douche. But he brushed me off and said TRP had gotten him this far and has “proven” effective (again, he forgets all the times it failed).

    So we end up at a party, and Trent’s big idea is to talk to other girls while basically ignoring her, with the logic that she’ll end up drinking and/or eventually get so territorial that she’ll take him away from the other girls and screw him in order to show them who he belongs to. Yeah, I know, it sounds stupid now, but even though I had some doubts, it still sounded somewhat logical at the time. Anyway, this doesn’t work as planned. She ends up getting hurt feelings and goes into another room to cry. I go back there and try to make her feel better, but I’m terrible at these things… Eventually he notices she isn’t there and finds us in another room, her clearly upset, so he tries to comfort her, but also ends up somewhat insulting her. She tells him she feels like he doesn’t like her or respect her, and that maybe they aren’t working out. At this point I decide this is too personal so I wait outside.

    I don’t know all the details but apparently Trent decided to just “go for it” like others suggested. Brittney did not like that, at all, and ended up punching him and pushing him off of her, then cussing him out and running out of the room. Since I was the driver, I offered to take her home (without Trent). That ride was awkward as fuck, but mostly I was shocked that Trent actually tried to force himself on Brittney even after she made it clear she didn’t want it. I tried to explain to her that Trent had been following some bad advice, but (understandably) she didn’t care what he had read, she cared that he tried to do something bad and she wanted nothing to do with him anymore. (…) https://archive.fo/BYCk1

    Courtesy of https://kiwifarms.net/threads/r-theredpill-reddits-very-own-sluthate.14993/ , their post has 26 more examples (Exhibits A – Z, lol) of ruined relationships after men got red pilled. Kiwi Farmers are mostly guys by the way, and they mock feminists equally.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Nah, acting like a douche is not one the ideas I will try to convey, T.R. My point is when a woman says "no" or "never" or words to that effect, you do not take her at her word. You could very likely miss out.

    Anyway, anyone who says "awkward as fuck" is a Millennial dipshit anyway, so I can't take him seriously. If you're gonna cuss, DO IT RIGHT, DAMMIT!
  170. @Jay Fink
    Asian women age better than white women.

    Nothing but truth.

  171. @Twinkie

    I’m unsure in any case of the value of the data, though, as I mentioned before.
     
    I think the quality of data is highly suspect. 100% never married for Japanese-Americans? Sample size is much too small.

    The Asian samples in the GSS are always small. When the total annual cohort is in the 1500-2000 respondent range, fewer than 100 “Asians”–and that includes all of them, East Asian, South Asian, Southeast Asian, Central Asians–get sampled each year. There is a lot of noise, especially if one tries to hone in on a specific country.

  172. @Audacious Epigone
    Huh? I didn't say blacks had a dating advantage over whites overall. Outside of skewed sex ratios, that wouldn't even be possible. The advantage/disadvantage in this context necessarily relies on both race and sex (ie black men are more interracially successful than black women and Asian women are more interracially successful than Asian men).

    Here's a writeup critical of the sensationalist "Japanese are sexless" Western take that nonetheless reports that a little over 20% of Japanese men between the ages of 18-39 are virgins.

    Ah, I see – you were merely saying that black men are more desirable than their own women by the widest margin, and Asian women are more desirable than their own men by the widest margin.

    These are within group comparisons, not assessments of overall cross-racial attractiveness.

    Then that makes sense, and I agree.

    Btw, I tried answering your posts about Buddhism on the other thread but comments are closed.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    They close after seven days. Feel free to port O/T here--it's a subject I'm very interested in, obviously.
  173. @Peter Frost
    Except on universities and in university towns, Peter, where you see ALL types, you should separate these two.

    I would agree with you if we were having this discussion twenty years ago. I wouldn't today. On my last few trips to the U.S. I encountered quite a few South Asian and African immigrants, and I'm pretty sure they weren't university students or professors.

    Their numbers may have been relatively small on the last U.S. census, but a lot of people have moved to the U.S. since 2010, and I suspect a lot of immigrants are missed by census takers.

    Do you people not go to convenience stores ever?

    We do. They're called dépanneurs in Quebec.

    We ARE in agreement, Mr. Frost. I said separate Arabs/Moslems from .Indians. Yes the .Indians are all around, and Africans are increasing in number, but the latter mostly in the big cities, from my experience.

    I think the ones missed the most are likely the Chinese illegal immigrants, and there are millions. They still try to stay in the “shadows”, as they are not yet wise to how damn stupid this country is yet on immigration, versus the illegal Hispanics.

    They’re called dépanneurs in Quebec.

    Yeah, but do they have Moon Pies and Yoohoo? ;-}

  174. @Toronto Russian

    I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no” and a lot of other things about women’s innate compulsion to lie, so that he can get laid more easily.
     
    There's a story of how this approach didn't end well:

    (...) Here's where things go from bad to dangerous. Trent has been following TRP advice to a T yet nothing is working as it should. Brittney is clearly unhappy and Trent is frustrated that nothing is working. He thinks it's because he isn't doing it right. He posts on forums and gets opinions. They almost always state to either dump her or step up his Alpha game. Trent, not used to having a girlfriend, of course doesn't want to dump her, so he follows the advice. One piece of advice that got popular attention was to basically just do what he wanted to do with her. They kept feeding him lies about how she would act like she disliked it but really she liked it, it was just built into her nature to not ask for it or show that she likes it. The "scientific" articles only further convinced him.

    Like I said, Brittney is a shy and sweet girl, so right away I did not like this idea. I even told him she would probably break up if he kept acting like a douche. But he brushed me off and said TRP had gotten him this far and has "proven" effective (again, he forgets all the times it failed).

    So we end up at a party, and Trent's big idea is to talk to other girls while basically ignoring her, with the logic that she'll end up drinking and/or eventually get so territorial that she'll take him away from the other girls and screw him in order to show them who he belongs to. Yeah, I know, it sounds stupid now, but even though I had some doubts, it still sounded somewhat logical at the time. Anyway, this doesn't work as planned. She ends up getting hurt feelings and goes into another room to cry. I go back there and try to make her feel better, but I'm terrible at these things... Eventually he notices she isn't there and finds us in another room, her clearly upset, so he tries to comfort her, but also ends up somewhat insulting her. She tells him she feels like he doesn't like her or respect her, and that maybe they aren't working out. At this point I decide this is too personal so I wait outside.

    I don't know all the details but apparently Trent decided to just "go for it" like others suggested. Brittney did not like that, at all, and ended up punching him and pushing him off of her, then cussing him out and running out of the room. Since I was the driver, I offered to take her home (without Trent). That ride was awkward as fuck, but mostly I was shocked that Trent actually tried to force himself on Brittney even after she made it clear she didn't want it. I tried to explain to her that Trent had been following some bad advice, but (understandably) she didn't care what he had read, she cared that he tried to do something bad and she wanted nothing to do with him anymore. (...) https://archive.fo/BYCk1
     
    Courtesy of https://kiwifarms.net/threads/r-theredpill-reddits-very-own-sluthate.14993/ , their post has 26 more examples (Exhibits A - Z, lol) of ruined relationships after men got red pilled. Kiwi Farmers are mostly guys by the way, and they mock feminists equally.

    Nah, acting like a douche is not one the ideas I will try to convey, T.R. My point is when a woman says “no” or “never” or words to that effect, you do not take her at her word. You could very likely miss out.

    Anyway, anyone who says “awkward as fuck” is a Millennial dipshit anyway, so I can’t take him seriously. If you’re gonna cuss, DO IT RIGHT, DAMMIT!

    • Replies: @SFG
    The big problem is, though you're right that at least some women who say 'no' don't mean it (I've had a few admit it to me), now they can hit you with sexual harassment lawsuits or even charge you with rape for persisting.
  175. @iffen
    Some of his close family members didn’t talk to him for a number of years after the divorce.

    Good for them.

    They’re all good people, but the guy in question is my friend.

    • Replies: @iffen
    They’re all good people, but the guy in question is my friend.

    Interesting. Do you vary what you think is "right" depending upon whether it is your friend doing it?

  176. 3287309

    Not even close. Multiple graphs posted here show that Asian men are just as likely to pick “hispanic-black-other” women as they are white women. The dating site data suggests they may dislike white women, and white women in East Asia frequently report feeling desexualized and undesired (there aren’t a lot of “Chads” in East Asia to compete with). It’s Asian, Hispanic and mixed-raced women who are the most sought after and fetishized.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    The dating site data suggests they may dislike white women, and white women in East Asia frequently report feeling desexualized and undesired (there aren’t a lot of “Chads” in East Asia to compete with).
     
    Yes, white women are generally ignored in East Asia by the men there, where East Asian men are in the overwhelming majority. This woman's experience is quite common in East Asia:

    https://vagabondish.com/female-foreign-japan/

    “We usually have a tough time keeping female teachers here,” my boss informed me on my first day of work as an English teacher in Tokyo. “They usually don’t last more than six months.” I looked up from studying the roster list of teachers (30 — all male), in surprise.

    “You mean at this school?”

    “No, I mean … in Japan.” He shrugged. “Tokyo’s a tough city to be single … If you’re, you know … a western woman.”

    I don’t think I’ll have a problem, I thought.

    It wasn’t that I was beauty queen gorgeous. Far from it. Slim, medium-height, with hazel eyes and freckles, I was at best ‘cute’ and at worst, average. But I had something that the competition didn’t: long, naturally curly, blond hair. Furthermore, I was bilingual, well-traveled and college-educated.

    But as I realized a few weeks into my stay in Japan, I was also mysteriously, frustratingly invisible.
     
    It is probably due to physical and behavioral incompatibility. White women are generally larger and more behaviorally dominant than Asian, Hispanic, half-Asian women. Men and women typically gravitate towards matches where the man is larger and behaviorally and stereotypically more "masculine" and dominant. Thus Asian men would tend to seek out Asian, Hispanic, part-Asian, etc. women. While white women who aren't with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.
    , @anon
    Have you ever considered just putting all your sources on racial gaps in attractiveness on one big post or webpage or something? I'm not being sarcastic, I actually find your posts informative.
  177. @Achmed E. Newman
    Nah, acting like a douche is not one the ideas I will try to convey, T.R. My point is when a woman says "no" or "never" or words to that effect, you do not take her at her word. You could very likely miss out.

    Anyway, anyone who says "awkward as fuck" is a Millennial dipshit anyway, so I can't take him seriously. If you're gonna cuss, DO IT RIGHT, DAMMIT!

    The big problem is, though you’re right that at least some women who say ‘no’ don’t mean it (I’ve had a few admit it to me), now they can hit you with sexual harassment lawsuits or even charge you with rape for persisting.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    That IS a big problem now, SFG. It makes it even more important to not even try with any woman who you think is pretty flaky.
  178. @Achmed E. Newman
    They're all good people, but the guy in question is my friend.

    They’re all good people, but the guy in question is my friend.

    Interesting. Do you vary what you think is “right” depending upon whether it is your friend doing it?

  179. I didn’t say I think he was right. It’s his business. He’s still my friend, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. The family is fine now, and there really aren’t any hard feelings with the ex either.

    It’s just good that the kids were grown up, pretty much.

  180. @SFG
    The big problem is, though you're right that at least some women who say 'no' don't mean it (I've had a few admit it to me), now they can hit you with sexual harassment lawsuits or even charge you with rape for persisting.

    That IS a big problem now, SFG. It makes it even more important to not even try with any woman who you think is pretty flaky.

  181. Anonymous[329] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Coulton
    Not even close. Multiple graphs posted here show that Asian men are just as likely to pick "hispanic-black-other" women as they are white women. The dating site data suggests they may dislike white women, and white women in East Asia frequently report feeling desexualized and undesired (there aren't a lot of "Chads" in East Asia to compete with). It's Asian, Hispanic and mixed-raced women who are the most sought after and fetishized.

    The dating site data suggests they may dislike white women, and white women in East Asia frequently report feeling desexualized and undesired (there aren’t a lot of “Chads” in East Asia to compete with).

    Yes, white women are generally ignored in East Asia by the men there, where East Asian men are in the overwhelming majority. This woman’s experience is quite common in East Asia:

    https://vagabondish.com/female-foreign-japan/

    “We usually have a tough time keeping female teachers here,” my boss informed me on my first day of work as an English teacher in Tokyo. “They usually don’t last more than six months.” I looked up from studying the roster list of teachers (30 — all male), in surprise.

    “You mean at this school?”

    “No, I mean … in Japan.” He shrugged. “Tokyo’s a tough city to be single … If you’re, you know … a western woman.”

    I don’t think I’ll have a problem, I thought.

    It wasn’t that I was beauty queen gorgeous. Far from it. Slim, medium-height, with hazel eyes and freckles, I was at best ‘cute’ and at worst, average. But I had something that the competition didn’t: long, naturally curly, blond hair. Furthermore, I was bilingual, well-traveled and college-educated.

    But as I realized a few weeks into my stay in Japan, I was also mysteriously, frustratingly invisible.

    It is probably due to physical and behavioral incompatibility. White women are generally larger and more behaviorally dominant than Asian, Hispanic, half-Asian women. Men and women typically gravitate towards matches where the man is larger and behaviorally and stereotypically more “masculine” and dominant. Thus Asian men would tend to seek out Asian, Hispanic, part-Asian, etc. women. While white women who aren’t with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    So would a black woman in Japan be hopeless, then?
    , @Twinkie
    How many of you have lived in Japan or Korea?

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.” What they have trouble getting are long-term boyfriends or husbands, because of cultural reasons and because white women are - compared to Korean women - perceived to be slutty/untrustworthy. They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Aegyo).

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    While white women who aren’t with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.
     
    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.
    , @Rosie

    White women are generally larger and more behaviorally dominant than Asian, Hispanic, half-Asian women.
     
    Some thoughts:

    Asian men don't talk, so you have to carry on the conversation by yourself

    When they do talk, they tend not to say things that are interesting to White women, being more conventional and conformist.
  182. @AaronB
    Ah, I see - you were merely saying that black men are more desirable than their own women by the widest margin, and Asian women are more desirable than their own men by the widest margin.

    These are within group comparisons, not assessments of overall cross-racial attractiveness.

    Then that makes sense, and I agree.

    Btw, I tried answering your posts about Buddhism on the other thread but comments are closed.

    They close after seven days. Feel free to port O/T here–it’s a subject I’m very interested in, obviously.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Sure...

    Well, the fact that you are attracted to Stoicism shows that you find this life problematic, and enjoying it not a simple and uncomplicated matter. You must employ mental strategies to avoid pain.

    And these strategies work, but they are sub-optimal.

    Stoicism counsels detachment - which does not suggest enjoying pleasures is the most important thing in this life, as you say.

    Detachment implies that the pleasures of this world are not, in themselves, of ultimate value. That, in fact, we achieve a more satisfying state by being somewhat above the pleasures of this world.

    Since we detach from the physical, does that not imply the spiritual - the non physical? And the Stoic emphasis on moral duty suggests satisfaction is to be found in concern with non-physical things, does it not?

    So Stoicism clearly shares much ground with religion. Pleasures are not, in themselves, bad, and they should be enjoyed moderately.

    But clearly, Stoicism implies they are not of ultimate value, and even contain danger.

    The only issue with Stoicism is that it does not follow up its own implications. It accepts that pleasure and physical objects are not ultimate sources of satisfaction, it says a non physical state - morality - is far more satisfying, but then it stops.

    While Stoicism puts the emphasis on avoiding pain, a negative, it does contain a positive source of satisfaction - moral duty.

    And the moral realm is the beginning of the spiritual realm.

    It is the beginnings of religion, and it flowed into Christianity.

    As for Buddhism, it says that there is an escape from the world of unsatisfactoriness - it says there is "the other shore", which you can reach if you try, where pain and death are vanquished.

    That goes beyond Stoicism, which stops short of positing "another world" reachable by our efforts.

    And I think this is the ultimate implication of recognising that the physical world does not fully satisfy our desire for value.

    As for Protestantism - well, it gradually became about physical things and lost its connection to the invisible spiritual world. It doesn't work for most people anymore.
  183. UFO,

    No slurs, please. I hate erasing comments but she insists.

  184. @Anonymous

    The dating site data suggests they may dislike white women, and white women in East Asia frequently report feeling desexualized and undesired (there aren’t a lot of “Chads” in East Asia to compete with).
     
    Yes, white women are generally ignored in East Asia by the men there, where East Asian men are in the overwhelming majority. This woman's experience is quite common in East Asia:

    https://vagabondish.com/female-foreign-japan/

    “We usually have a tough time keeping female teachers here,” my boss informed me on my first day of work as an English teacher in Tokyo. “They usually don’t last more than six months.” I looked up from studying the roster list of teachers (30 — all male), in surprise.

    “You mean at this school?”

    “No, I mean … in Japan.” He shrugged. “Tokyo’s a tough city to be single … If you’re, you know … a western woman.”

    I don’t think I’ll have a problem, I thought.

    It wasn’t that I was beauty queen gorgeous. Far from it. Slim, medium-height, with hazel eyes and freckles, I was at best ‘cute’ and at worst, average. But I had something that the competition didn’t: long, naturally curly, blond hair. Furthermore, I was bilingual, well-traveled and college-educated.

    But as I realized a few weeks into my stay in Japan, I was also mysteriously, frustratingly invisible.
     
    It is probably due to physical and behavioral incompatibility. White women are generally larger and more behaviorally dominant than Asian, Hispanic, half-Asian women. Men and women typically gravitate towards matches where the man is larger and behaviorally and stereotypically more "masculine" and dominant. Thus Asian men would tend to seek out Asian, Hispanic, part-Asian, etc. women. While white women who aren't with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.

    So would a black woman in Japan be hopeless, then?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    So would a black woman in Japan be hopeless, then?
     
    Yes. Not completely impossible, but very tough.
  185. @Anonymous

    The dating site data suggests they may dislike white women, and white women in East Asia frequently report feeling desexualized and undesired (there aren’t a lot of “Chads” in East Asia to compete with).
     
    Yes, white women are generally ignored in East Asia by the men there, where East Asian men are in the overwhelming majority. This woman's experience is quite common in East Asia:

    https://vagabondish.com/female-foreign-japan/

    “We usually have a tough time keeping female teachers here,” my boss informed me on my first day of work as an English teacher in Tokyo. “They usually don’t last more than six months.” I looked up from studying the roster list of teachers (30 — all male), in surprise.

    “You mean at this school?”

    “No, I mean … in Japan.” He shrugged. “Tokyo’s a tough city to be single … If you’re, you know … a western woman.”

    I don’t think I’ll have a problem, I thought.

    It wasn’t that I was beauty queen gorgeous. Far from it. Slim, medium-height, with hazel eyes and freckles, I was at best ‘cute’ and at worst, average. But I had something that the competition didn’t: long, naturally curly, blond hair. Furthermore, I was bilingual, well-traveled and college-educated.

    But as I realized a few weeks into my stay in Japan, I was also mysteriously, frustratingly invisible.
     
    It is probably due to physical and behavioral incompatibility. White women are generally larger and more behaviorally dominant than Asian, Hispanic, half-Asian women. Men and women typically gravitate towards matches where the man is larger and behaviorally and stereotypically more "masculine" and dominant. Thus Asian men would tend to seek out Asian, Hispanic, part-Asian, etc. women. While white women who aren't with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.

    How many of you have lived in Japan or Korea?

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.” What they have trouble getting are long-term boyfriends or husbands, because of cultural reasons and because white women are – compared to Korean women – perceived to be slutty/untrustworthy. They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Aegyo).

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    While white women who aren’t with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.

    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.

    • Replies: @216

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”
     
    IIRC, bride imports in ROK are mostly Chinese or SE Asian?

    Sidebar, it seems surprising in retrospect that the end of the USSR didn't lead to Russian emigres in Japan. Or for Japan getting Sakhalin and the Kuriles back.
    , @Talha

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”
     
    I believe it’s the same in practically all hotel lobbies in Dubai; I read Russian prostitutes are a dime a dozen there and one can hardly hop on or off an elevator without encountering one. I think jeff stryker can confirm this.

    I think Putin said something about Russian prostitutes being the best in the world, though not sure if that was a brag or tongue in cheek - or both.

    Peace.
    , @Sam Coulton

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.”
     
    Yeah, right. This never happens.

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”
     
    What an absurd thing to say. Most Koreans have never even seen a blond woman before and they never get asked this.

    Anyway they already did studies on white,and specifically blond women in East Asia and they are desexualized there.

    http://sciencenordic.com/blond-sexy-and-immigrant


    In the US Swedish women were the whitest of the white, and they were sometimes over-sexualised. But Swedish whiteness did not fit into society in Singapore at all. According to Lundström there is much focus on whiteness in Singapore.

    Ads for skin whitening products are common, and whiteness is the ideal. But the ideal of beauty is not a white, blond western woman.

    “Western women were ranked below the Chinese in the racial hierarchy. The western whiteness is not as posh as the Singaporean, Chinese whiteness,” says Lundström. Swedish women in the US were very preoccupied with American men, whereas the Swedish women in Singapore were not the least interested in Asian men. They focused on their Swedish husbands.

    Asian women, on the other hand, represented a possible rival, since Swedish men found Asian women attractive. “The Swedish women in Singapore were almost desexualised. They felt less feminine,” says Lundström.
     

    , @Anonymous
    I've been clubbing in Seoul, including the nicest parts for nightlife there like Gangnam and that hipsterish area around a university, and in Japan and China. White women, let alone attractive ones, are very rare in Seoul's nightlife and much less common than in Japan or China. The ones that are there are largely ignored. Part of this might be due to the fact that the people there are much less casual and more hesitant about approaching strangers in clubs and bars. They usually go with people they know, and tend to go to special "booking" nightclubs which are like matchmaking clubs to meet strangers.
    , @Anonymous

    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.
     
    That has little to do with overall rates though.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.
     
    It doesn't seem to be frequent overall though, which suggests the particular socio-economic and geographic background is very small and unrepresentative.

    Physical and behavioral compatibility are a part of the assortative nature of marriage.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women ."

    "generally pleasing and engaging often because of a childlike charm and innocence."

    I think all men prize this in women, it's just pretty rare in Western ones these days.

    Working with high-caste Tamil girls was like going back in time - demure, downcast eyes as the default - then the odd occasion they'd look full into your eyes and flash a 110 watt smile. I was nearly twice their age but found it quite charming. None of them were what a Westerner would consider a beauty, but that didn't seem to matter.
  186. @Audacious Epigone
    So would a black woman in Japan be hopeless, then?

    So would a black woman in Japan be hopeless, then?

    Yes. Not completely impossible, but very tough.

  187. @Audacious Epigone
    They close after seven days. Feel free to port O/T here--it's a subject I'm very interested in, obviously.

    Sure…

    Well, the fact that you are attracted to Stoicism shows that you find this life problematic, and enjoying it not a simple and uncomplicated matter. You must employ mental strategies to avoid pain.

    And these strategies work, but they are sub-optimal.

    Stoicism counsels detachment – which does not suggest enjoying pleasures is the most important thing in this life, as you say.

    Detachment implies that the pleasures of this world are not, in themselves, of ultimate value. That, in fact, we achieve a more satisfying state by being somewhat above the pleasures of this world.

    Since we detach from the physical, does that not imply the spiritual – the non physical? And the Stoic emphasis on moral duty suggests satisfaction is to be found in concern with non-physical things, does it not?

    So Stoicism clearly shares much ground with religion. Pleasures are not, in themselves, bad, and they should be enjoyed moderately.

    But clearly, Stoicism implies they are not of ultimate value, and even contain danger.

    The only issue with Stoicism is that it does not follow up its own implications. It accepts that pleasure and physical objects are not ultimate sources of satisfaction, it says a non physical state – morality – is far more satisfying, but then it stops.

    While Stoicism puts the emphasis on avoiding pain, a negative, it does contain a positive source of satisfaction – moral duty.

    And the moral realm is the beginning of the spiritual realm.

    It is the beginnings of religion, and it flowed into Christianity.

    As for Buddhism, it says that there is an escape from the world of unsatisfactoriness – it says there is “the other shore”, which you can reach if you try, where pain and death are vanquished.

    That goes beyond Stoicism, which stops short of positing “another world” reachable by our efforts.

    And I think this is the ultimate implication of recognising that the physical world does not fully satisfy our desire for value.

    As for Protestantism – well, it gradually became about physical things and lost its connection to the invisible spiritual world. It doesn’t work for most people anymore.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Stoicism is a secular ethical and philosophical system. More practically, it's an attitude. As you allude to, it's not inherently incompatible with Christianity, for example.

    Separately, I'm agnostic, with all the shortcomings that implies (and that you described above).
  188. Pfffshwahahahaha! The dude got served pork butt sliders by some well-intentioned non-Muslim chick he wanted to bed! Serves him right!

    Sooooo good! MT is totally laughing at this! The butt though! 🤣

    Peace.

  189. 216 says:
    @Twinkie
    How many of you have lived in Japan or Korea?

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.” What they have trouble getting are long-term boyfriends or husbands, because of cultural reasons and because white women are - compared to Korean women - perceived to be slutty/untrustworthy. They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Aegyo).

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    While white women who aren’t with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.
     
    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    IIRC, bride imports in ROK are mostly Chinese or SE Asian?

    Sidebar, it seems surprising in retrospect that the end of the USSR didn’t lead to Russian emigres in Japan. Or for Japan getting Sakhalin and the Kuriles back.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    bride imports in ROK are mostly Chinese or SE Asian?
     
    Vietnamese. Chinese women are not popular.
  190. @Jay Fink
    My incel Chinese-American friend is only interested in hot looking white women. He has his mind set on being alone for life if he can't find one. This is different than many black guys who are often attracted to unattractive, obese white women.

    Chin better hit the gym if he wants to be Chan.

    The Virgin Chinese vs the Chad Mongolian

  191. @Twinkie
    How many of you have lived in Japan or Korea?

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.” What they have trouble getting are long-term boyfriends or husbands, because of cultural reasons and because white women are - compared to Korean women - perceived to be slutty/untrustworthy. They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Aegyo).

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    While white women who aren’t with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.
     
    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    I believe it’s the same in practically all hotel lobbies in Dubai; I read Russian prostitutes are a dime a dozen there and one can hardly hop on or off an elevator without encountering one. I think jeff stryker can confirm this.

    I think Putin said something about Russian prostitutes being the best in the world, though not sure if that was a brag or tongue in cheek – or both.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @216
    The "Tag the Sponsor" content was one of the best products of the manosphere.

    The creators seem to have vanished, if only there had been partisan political application of their techniques. We might have won the midterms.
  192. 216 says:
    @Audacious Epigone
    Exceedingly few men will get more sex out of Eternal Bachelorhood than Married Life. And if they can, there’s no guarantee it will stay that way over the years. And if they can manage it, they may yet not be interested in keeping it going forever. The example of Roosh V is highly telling.

    As the novelty wears off and the ability to catch birds becomes more difficult with age, a bird in hand increasingly comes to look better than any number free to wander.

    Some who pulled a Leo Strauss on Roosh’s writings alleged that he was basically running a numbers game, and that his pickup ability was nothing near what his reputation implied.

    The free content was enough vicarious living for me, I never had interest in living the lifestyle.

    The manosphere dislikes the idea of a “Male wall”, but there are socially useful reasons to construct such a wall and place it one or two years behind the female Wall.

    Perhaps its White Knighting, but there’s also a case for younger men to c*ckblock the men of a certain age. Not an encouragement for Incel to go on an E. Rodger bloodbath, but their appearance at certain bars could be a “turd in the punch bowl”.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    I used to derisively call PUA the Boomhauer Strategy. That's not fair, obviously--but it's not completely off the mark, either.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7FVmeJXwCY
  193. @Talha

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”
     
    I believe it’s the same in practically all hotel lobbies in Dubai; I read Russian prostitutes are a dime a dozen there and one can hardly hop on or off an elevator without encountering one. I think jeff stryker can confirm this.

    I think Putin said something about Russian prostitutes being the best in the world, though not sure if that was a brag or tongue in cheek - or both.

    Peace.

    The “Tag the Sponsor” content was one of the best products of the manosphere.

    The creators seem to have vanished, if only there had been partisan political application of their techniques. We might have won the midterms.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Is that the one where they exposed third world elites who were buying (often flying them out) “services” of nubile Western females?

    Peace.
  194. @Twinkie
    How many of you have lived in Japan or Korea?

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.” What they have trouble getting are long-term boyfriends or husbands, because of cultural reasons and because white women are - compared to Korean women - perceived to be slutty/untrustworthy. They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Aegyo).

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    While white women who aren’t with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.
     
    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.”

    Yeah, right. This never happens.

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    What an absurd thing to say. Most Koreans have never even seen a blond woman before and they never get asked this.

    Anyway they already did studies on white,and specifically blond women in East Asia and they are desexualized there.

    http://sciencenordic.com/blond-sexy-and-immigrant

    In the US Swedish women were the whitest of the white, and they were sometimes over-sexualised. But Swedish whiteness did not fit into society in Singapore at all. According to Lundström there is much focus on whiteness in Singapore.

    Ads for skin whitening products are common, and whiteness is the ideal. But the ideal of beauty is not a white, blond western woman.

    “Western women were ranked below the Chinese in the racial hierarchy. The western whiteness is not as posh as the Singaporean, Chinese whiteness,” says Lundström. Swedish women in the US were very preoccupied with American men, whereas the Swedish women in Singapore were not the least interested in Asian men. They focused on their Swedish husbands.

    Asian women, on the other hand, represented a possible rival, since Swedish men found Asian women attractive. “The Swedish women in Singapore were almost desexualised. They felt less feminine,” says Lundström.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Yeah, right. This never happens.
     
    Try Hongdae in Seoul.
    https://youtu.be/vsiUPbzHmVg

    What an absurd thing to say. Most Koreans have never even seen a blond woman before and they never get asked this.
     
    You don’t seem to realize even rural areas of South Korea now have foreign language teachers from overseas. Forget about Seoul or Busan.

    http://www.world-walk-about.com/northern-asia/south-korea/why-men-in-korea-think-im-a-prostitute/

    Ask a white expat female in South Korea and she’ll give you the “Are You Russian?” stories.

    Anyway they already did studies on white,and specifically blond women in East Asia and they are desexualized there.
     
    I don’t know what stupid “study” you are citing, but blonde women being seen as “easy” and hyper sexualized is widespread, including in Japan and South Korea.
    https://youtu.be/xikCrbOAP5Q
    Unsurprisingly, this Swedish young woman had no trouble in attracting men in Korea. I think she had a Korean boyfriend while she lived there. Men are men everywhere - they like to bed attractive women.
    , @anon
    Twinkie's just in denial on how White women aren't the pinnacle of attraction. Even when confronted with hard science he just spams rap music or whatever and yaps about his Lived Experience (read: solipsism).

    The stats show that on the street White women are not the most attractive.
  195. @216

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”
     
    IIRC, bride imports in ROK are mostly Chinese or SE Asian?

    Sidebar, it seems surprising in retrospect that the end of the USSR didn't lead to Russian emigres in Japan. Or for Japan getting Sakhalin and the Kuriles back.

    bride imports in ROK are mostly Chinese or SE Asian?

    Vietnamese. Chinese women are not popular.

    • Replies: @216
    Has the ROK government given thought to their female hypergamy problem?

    Or is the low TFR more a function of geographic limits on real estate?
  196. @Twinkie

    bride imports in ROK are mostly Chinese or SE Asian?
     
    Vietnamese. Chinese women are not popular.

    Has the ROK government given thought to their female hypergamy problem?

    Or is the low TFR more a function of geographic limits on real estate?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Has the ROK government given thought to their female hypergamy problem?
     
    Is that problem in Korea?

    Or is the low TFR more a function of geographic limits on real estate?
     
    While the high cost of real estate doesn’t help, what hurts even more is how costly education of their young is. Extremely K-selection environment. I believe South Korean households spend the highest fraction of income on education in the developed world (or at least among OECD countries).
  197. @216
    The "Tag the Sponsor" content was one of the best products of the manosphere.

    The creators seem to have vanished, if only there had been partisan political application of their techniques. We might have won the midterms.

    Is that the one where they exposed third world elites who were buying (often flying them out) “services” of nubile Western females?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @216
    Yep

    The so-called "Dubai Porta-Potty"

    The page operated by catfishing these "models", and then posting the leaks.

    ---

    Imagine if Dem candidates, campaign operatives and donors had been catfished. Illegal, probably. But it might have tipped the balance like the exposure of J. Podesta's emails in 2016
  198. @Sam Coulton

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.”
     
    Yeah, right. This never happens.

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”
     
    What an absurd thing to say. Most Koreans have never even seen a blond woman before and they never get asked this.

    Anyway they already did studies on white,and specifically blond women in East Asia and they are desexualized there.

    http://sciencenordic.com/blond-sexy-and-immigrant


    In the US Swedish women were the whitest of the white, and they were sometimes over-sexualised. But Swedish whiteness did not fit into society in Singapore at all. According to Lundström there is much focus on whiteness in Singapore.

    Ads for skin whitening products are common, and whiteness is the ideal. But the ideal of beauty is not a white, blond western woman.

    “Western women were ranked below the Chinese in the racial hierarchy. The western whiteness is not as posh as the Singaporean, Chinese whiteness,” says Lundström. Swedish women in the US were very preoccupied with American men, whereas the Swedish women in Singapore were not the least interested in Asian men. They focused on their Swedish husbands.

    Asian women, on the other hand, represented a possible rival, since Swedish men found Asian women attractive. “The Swedish women in Singapore were almost desexualised. They felt less feminine,” says Lundström.
     

    Yeah, right. This never happens.

    Try Hongdae in Seoul.

    What an absurd thing to say. Most Koreans have never even seen a blond woman before and they never get asked this.

    You don’t seem to realize even rural areas of South Korea now have foreign language teachers from overseas. Forget about Seoul or Busan.

    http://www.world-walk-about.com/northern-asia/south-korea/why-men-in-korea-think-im-a-prostitute/

    Ask a white expat female in South Korea and she’ll give you the “Are You Russian?” stories.

    Anyway they already did studies on white,and specifically blond women in East Asia and they are desexualized there.

    I don’t know what stupid “study” you are citing, but blonde women being seen as “easy” and hyper sexualized is widespread, including in Japan and South Korea.

    Unsurprisingly, this Swedish young woman had no trouble in attracting men in Korea. I think she had a Korean boyfriend while she lived there. Men are men everywhere – they like to bed attractive women.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Hongdae is that hipsterish area around a university with lots of nightlife. White women are not common there at all, and the area has a hipsterish, laid back vibe rather than a typical clubbing one. More artsy type bars and clubs than typical nightclubs. Much less "approaching" than in clubs and bars in the US. Koreans tend to go to matchmaking type clubs called booking clubs to meet strangers.

    You have a tendency of using anecdotes and a few or isolated examples, like the example of your own life, to make claims about averages and large populations. You've said in the comments that you're 6'2", ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, Unz Review reader and commenter, etc. Most Asian men are none of those things, let alone all of them. You are probably literally the only Asian man on the planet who is all of those things. Your example is basically irrelevant and worthless for illustrating the broader population.
    , @Sam Coulton
    I haven't seen a single piece of evidence from you that Korean men pursue white women in clubs or that blond women are mistaken for prostitutes in SK. The majority of foreign English teachers in Korea are males.

    But keep calling the link about the actual study I posted "stupid" while spamming random videos of Kpop fans and a pseudonymous blog post in which a white woman was asked if she was Russian by a middle eastern man, anecdote anecdote.
    This obviously translates to "the most common question women are asked in Korea is if they are Russian".


    Actually, Koreans are basically herbivore men like in Japan and have a very reserved introverted culture:

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/society/article/2182776/single-minded-forget-marriage-south-koreans-arent-even-dating


    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but "easy", most men would be too timid to even approach one.
    , @Feryl
    Personally, I think that some NW European people look fairly homely*, although American amalgamations of Brit/French/Irish-Catholic/Germanic people are probably more attractive, on average (once you adjust for the obesity rate). North-Eastern Europeans, though, are very attractive on average. Probably the best looking people in the world.

    *I'm often struck by how, well, ugly some of the male celebrities of the UK and Germany are. American whites and Scandinavians to some extent seem more attractive.
  199. @Talha
    Is that the one where they exposed third world elites who were buying (often flying them out) “services” of nubile Western females?

    Peace.

    Yep

    The so-called “Dubai Porta-Potty”

    The page operated by catfishing these “models”, and then posting the leaks.

    Imagine if Dem candidates, campaign operatives and donors had been catfished. Illegal, probably. But it might have tipped the balance like the exposure of J. Podesta’s emails in 2016

    • Agree: Talha
  200. Anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    How many of you have lived in Japan or Korea?

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.” What they have trouble getting are long-term boyfriends or husbands, because of cultural reasons and because white women are - compared to Korean women - perceived to be slutty/untrustworthy. They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Aegyo).

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    While white women who aren’t with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.
     
    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.

    I’ve been clubbing in Seoul, including the nicest parts for nightlife there like Gangnam and that hipsterish area around a university, and in Japan and China. White women, let alone attractive ones, are very rare in Seoul’s nightlife and much less common than in Japan or China. The ones that are there are largely ignored. Part of this might be due to the fact that the people there are much less casual and more hesitant about approaching strangers in clubs and bars. They usually go with people they know, and tend to go to special “booking” nightclubs which are like matchmaking clubs to meet strangers.

    • Replies: @Truth
    I have to agree here.

    Twinkie, I admire your quasi-Korean advocacy (when you're not advocating for "old stock" Caucasoids, anyway), but I worked there for a short time 20 years ago, and unless things have changed dramatically, the thought of Korean men swarming a white woman in a club with game and pickup lines literally made me LOL for a second.

    Back when I was there, a Korean club was tables of men drinking across the room from tables of women drinking, and after a few hours one gets drunk enough to shyly shuffle over and ask for a dance. Even in Koreatown, LA, the JKorean girls generally have to go to 외국인 to get some attention. I worked for a company that marketed a Korean product in California and the slutty upper middle-class white girls who traveled with us had to come to the American guys to get laid; and amongst that cohort, getting laid whenever they travel is almost a necessity.

    But hey, two decades is a long time, and your people are quite gifted at mimicry...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzMcIo68qI
  201. Anonymous[381] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    How many of you have lived in Japan or Korea?

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.” What they have trouble getting are long-term boyfriends or husbands, because of cultural reasons and because white women are - compared to Korean women - perceived to be slutty/untrustworthy. They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Aegyo).

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    While white women who aren’t with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.
     
    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.

    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.

    That has little to do with overall rates though.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.

    It doesn’t seem to be frequent overall though, which suggests the particular socio-economic and geographic background is very small and unrepresentative.

    Physical and behavioral compatibility are a part of the assortative nature of marriage.

  202. @216
    Has the ROK government given thought to their female hypergamy problem?

    Or is the low TFR more a function of geographic limits on real estate?

    Has the ROK government given thought to their female hypergamy problem?

    Is that problem in Korea?

    Or is the low TFR more a function of geographic limits on real estate?

    While the high cost of real estate doesn’t help, what hurts even more is how costly education of their young is. Extremely K-selection environment. I believe South Korean households spend the highest fraction of income on education in the developed world (or at least among OECD countries).

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    South Korean households spend the highest fraction of income on education in the developed world

    In the global marketplace, South Korea has only one natural advantage: the cognitive ability of its people. Unfortunately, this advantage will disappear as the country opens up to immigrants, often as mail-order brides from Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Cambodia. In 2010, 10% of married couples were binational, an increase from 4% in 2000, according to Statistics Korea. The figure is higher in rural areas: about 40%. It is projected that children of mixed parentage will represent about 50% of rural children in 2020 (Park, 2011).

    These children do badly at school: "The drop-out rate among mixed-blood youths is estimated at 9.4% in elementary schools and 17.5% at the secondary level, compared with less than 3% among ordinary Korean youths (Docuinfor 2004). These youngsters may be alienated from mainstream society, feeling prejudice and discrimination, and frustration about the lack of positive future prospects" (Kang, 2010).

    This underperformance is blamed on poor language skills, i.e., the children improperly learn the Korean language at home. If the above explanation is correct, these children should do worse in subjects that demand much social interaction and language use. Conversely, they should do better in subjects that require abstract skills, like mathematics, or memorization of names and dates, like social studies. This is, in fact, the pattern we see among children of East Asian immigrants in North America.

    But this is not really the pattern we see among children born in South Korea to non-Korean mothers: "Their favourite subjects are music/painting/physical education (42.6%), while they dislike math (38.1%), social studies (19.2%) and Korean (12.7%)" (Kang, 2010).

    The learning deficit seems to be strongest in those subjects that require the most abstraction and memorization.

    References

    Kang, S.W. (2010). Multicultural education and the rights to education of migrant children in South Korea, Educational Review, 62(3), 287-300

    Park, S. (2011). Korean Multiculturalism and the Marriage Squeeze, Contexts, 10, 64-65.

  203. Anonymous[335] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Yeah, right. This never happens.
     
    Try Hongdae in Seoul.
    https://youtu.be/vsiUPbzHmVg

    What an absurd thing to say. Most Koreans have never even seen a blond woman before and they never get asked this.
     
    You don’t seem to realize even rural areas of South Korea now have foreign language teachers from overseas. Forget about Seoul or Busan.

    http://www.world-walk-about.com/northern-asia/south-korea/why-men-in-korea-think-im-a-prostitute/

    Ask a white expat female in South Korea and she’ll give you the “Are You Russian?” stories.

    Anyway they already did studies on white,and specifically blond women in East Asia and they are desexualized there.
     
    I don’t know what stupid “study” you are citing, but blonde women being seen as “easy” and hyper sexualized is widespread, including in Japan and South Korea.
    https://youtu.be/xikCrbOAP5Q
    Unsurprisingly, this Swedish young woman had no trouble in attracting men in Korea. I think she had a Korean boyfriend while she lived there. Men are men everywhere - they like to bed attractive women.

    Hongdae is that hipsterish area around a university with lots of nightlife. White women are not common there at all, and the area has a hipsterish, laid back vibe rather than a typical clubbing one. More artsy type bars and clubs than typical nightclubs. Much less “approaching” than in clubs and bars in the US. Koreans tend to go to matchmaking type clubs called booking clubs to meet strangers.

    You have a tendency of using anecdotes and a few or isolated examples, like the example of your own life, to make claims about averages and large populations. You’ve said in the comments that you’re 6’2″, ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, Unz Review reader and commenter, etc. Most Asian men are none of those things, let alone all of them. You are probably literally the only Asian man on the planet who is all of those things. Your example is basically irrelevant and worthless for illustrating the broader population.

    • Replies: @216

    6’2″, ex-military, a fervent Catholic
     
    President Moon of ROK is these attributes. The height is rather tall for any country.

    gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing
     
    Not particularly uncommon in the rural red parts of the United States.

    On an intersectional level, Mr. Twinkie may be uncommon, but its relevant to also note that anyone that comments on Unz is basically a statistical oddity. (Recall jokes about "Unzstan") We have Nigerians that post here, after all.
    , @Twinkie

    Hongdae is that hipsterish area around a university with lots of nightlife. White women are not common there at all
     
    What's your definition of common? When I was in Hongdae a couple of years back (with my wife), I actually saw a pretty decent number of white females. If I had to guess, it was probably around 1-in-10 among women in that area. But that could be because we were taken there by white expatriates, so they may have picked places popular with the expatriate crowd. Be that as it may, my point wasn't so much that there is a surfeit of white females running around in Korea, but rather it was to contradict the claim that most Koreans never see white women. That is patently false these days. And Hongdae being a university area, it attracts a disproportionately higher numbers of foreigners, including foreign females (the number of foreigners studying at Korean universities has skyrocketed in recent years).

    You have a tendency of using anecdotes and a few or isolated examples, like the example of your own life, to make claims about averages and large populations.
     
    I do use anecdotes sometimes, but I don't use them "to make claims about averages and large populations." What I use anecdotes for is to falsify highly generalized (sometimes absolutist) claims others make. To few of you understand the difference between the two.

    You’ve said in the comments that you’re 6’2″, ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, Unz Review reader and commenter, etc. Most Asian men are none of those things, let alone all of them. You are probably literally the only Asian man on the planet who is all of those things.
     
    When you put it like that, I do sound pretty awesome. :)

    I got news for you fella. Replace any single one of those factors with something else (Asian with black, a fervent Catholic with a Jew, etc. ) and you are going to have a pretty small slice of the population, because it's an intersection of many different things. Heck, it's not going to be that easy to find too many WHITES who are all those things. That doesn't mean what those whites have observed or seen are invalid or nonexistent.
    , @Anonymous

    You’ve said in the comments that you’re 6’2″, ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, etc.
     
    The "etc." includes being a military historian and having watched while the SAS did unspeakable things to bad guys and having made the world safe for democracy or some such silliness.
    But, curiously, he never says what branch of the armed forces he served in or, even in general terms, when. Nor does he allude in even the vaguest way to what his NEC, AFSC or MOS was. Big alarm bells. Only Fibber McGee has told more whoppers than Twinkie.
    I wouldn't care -- it's the interwebs, after all -- except that Peter Frost has been wasting time and typing engaging with this character instead of posting to his moribund blog. Come on, Frost, blog up and write! Your public is impatient. ( ᓀ ‸ ᓂ )
    , @jimmyriddle
    "Most Asian men are none of those things"

    Roof Koreans.

  204. @Twinkie

    Yeah, right. This never happens.
     
    Try Hongdae in Seoul.
    https://youtu.be/vsiUPbzHmVg

    What an absurd thing to say. Most Koreans have never even seen a blond woman before and they never get asked this.
     
    You don’t seem to realize even rural areas of South Korea now have foreign language teachers from overseas. Forget about Seoul or Busan.

    http://www.world-walk-about.com/northern-asia/south-korea/why-men-in-korea-think-im-a-prostitute/

    Ask a white expat female in South Korea and she’ll give you the “Are You Russian?” stories.

    Anyway they already did studies on white,and specifically blond women in East Asia and they are desexualized there.
     
    I don’t know what stupid “study” you are citing, but blonde women being seen as “easy” and hyper sexualized is widespread, including in Japan and South Korea.
    https://youtu.be/xikCrbOAP5Q
    Unsurprisingly, this Swedish young woman had no trouble in attracting men in Korea. I think she had a Korean boyfriend while she lived there. Men are men everywhere - they like to bed attractive women.

    I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence from you that Korean men pursue white women in clubs or that blond women are mistaken for prostitutes in SK. The majority of foreign English teachers in Korea are males.

    But keep calling the link about the actual study I posted “stupid” while spamming random videos of Kpop fans and a pseudonymous blog post in which a white woman was asked if she was Russian by a middle eastern man, anecdote anecdote.
    This obviously translates to “the most common question women are asked in Korea is if they are Russian”.

    Actually, Koreans are basically herbivore men like in Japan and have a very reserved introverted culture:

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/society/article/2182776/single-minded-forget-marriage-south-koreans-arent-even-dating

    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but “easy”, most men would be too timid to even approach one.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but “easy”, most men would be too timid to even approach one.
     
    There are dozens of YouTube channels of European and American women who live in South Korea and are dating or married to Korean men. Just do a search and watch a few videos of their experiences.

    If you talk to single expat women in Korea - and my wife and I have IN KOREA - they’ll tell you that 1) they get asked a lot about being “Russian” and 2) get hit on by Korean guys at clubs and bars, guys who don’t even speak English.

    Have you ever lived and worked in Korea?
    , @Twinkie

    I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence from you that Korean men pursue white women in clubs or that blond women are mistaken for prostitutes in SK.
     
    Usually it's the middle aged men ("Ajeossi") who approach the foreign women thinking the latter are prostitutes, but this poor gal was approached by a granny! "How much?"
    https://youtu.be/t7MdwBu86fs?t=1m30s

    And why do they all ask about Russians?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea

    Russian

    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, young Russian girls have been commonly seen in the red-light districts of Korea.[41] They can be found in the bars, strip clubs and coffee shops for entertaining the customers.[42] Between January 2000 and March 2001, approximately 6,000 Russian women entered Korea through Busan port and Gimpo. In 2000, 3,064 Russians entered South Korea on E-6 visas, 2,927 of them women (Jhoty, 2001)[43] With the collapse of the Soviet Union, thousands of Russian migrated to Korea to work as entertainers while others forced into prostitution for both American soldiers and Korean civilian men.[44] Many Korean men actively seek out Russian women because they satisfy not only their desire for dominance over exotic females but also the latent psychological need to overcome their complex.[45]
     
    Blondes are "desexualized" in East Asia? Get the heck out of here. There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women - "to ride a white horse." You think that expression exists to express undesirability?

    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but “easy”, most men would be too timid to even approach one.
     
    Listen to this blonde talking about her Tinder in Korea experience and how she met her boyfriend there:
    https://youtu.be/Md_Wmo5dCSc
  205. @Twinkie

    Has the ROK government given thought to their female hypergamy problem?
     
    Is that problem in Korea?

    Or is the low TFR more a function of geographic limits on real estate?
     
    While the high cost of real estate doesn’t help, what hurts even more is how costly education of their young is. Extremely K-selection environment. I believe South Korean households spend the highest fraction of income on education in the developed world (or at least among OECD countries).

    South Korean households spend the highest fraction of income on education in the developed world

    In the global marketplace, South Korea has only one natural advantage: the cognitive ability of its people. Unfortunately, this advantage will disappear as the country opens up to immigrants, often as mail-order brides from Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Cambodia. In 2010, 10% of married couples were binational, an increase from 4% in 2000, according to Statistics Korea. The figure is higher in rural areas: about 40%. It is projected that children of mixed parentage will represent about 50% of rural children in 2020 (Park, 2011).

    These children do badly at school: “The drop-out rate among mixed-blood youths is estimated at 9.4% in elementary schools and 17.5% at the secondary level, compared with less than 3% among ordinary Korean youths (Docuinfor 2004). These youngsters may be alienated from mainstream society, feeling prejudice and discrimination, and frustration about the lack of positive future prospects” (Kang, 2010).

    This underperformance is blamed on poor language skills, i.e., the children improperly learn the Korean language at home. If the above explanation is correct, these children should do worse in subjects that demand much social interaction and language use. Conversely, they should do better in subjects that require abstract skills, like mathematics, or memorization of names and dates, like social studies. This is, in fact, the pattern we see among children of East Asian immigrants in North America.

    But this is not really the pattern we see among children born in South Korea to non-Korean mothers: “Their favourite subjects are music/painting/physical education (42.6%), while they dislike math (38.1%), social studies (19.2%) and Korean (12.7%)” (Kang, 2010).

    The learning deficit seems to be strongest in those subjects that require the most abstraction and memorization.

    References

    Kang, S.W. (2010). Multicultural education and the rights to education of migrant children in South Korea, Educational Review, 62(3), 287-300

    Park, S. (2011). Korean Multiculturalism and the Marriage Squeeze, Contexts, 10, 64-65.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    I believe this to be the fundamental weakness South Korea has in comparison to Japan and China. A few million migrants from South East Asia have the ability to forever change the course of the Han River muddying and clogging it's flow. While such a group would simply be dissolved in China by the Han Sea.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    Wow, that's staggering. Thanks.
    , @216
    This is what I referred to as the "hypergamy problem" in ROK.

    Is there a chance that the ROK government will start importing DPRK women?
  206. @Rosie

    A public school teacher in many states is required to earn a masters degree (bureaucratic featherbedding), but isn’t often paid anything more. (She) may have a blue-collar husband that makes more money.
     
    So then let's stop pretending women won't marry lower-status blue collar men. It's a lie.

    It’s a long way from ‘never’ to ‘often’.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    It’s a long way from ‘never’ to ‘often’.
     
    Yet the trend is unmistakable.
  207. Jews get a bad rap for putative sexual perversion, but that reeks of jealousy to me!

    I see nothing to indicate that the sex had to be free, just that it had to have occurred in the last year.

  208. @Sam Coulton
    I haven't seen a single piece of evidence from you that Korean men pursue white women in clubs or that blond women are mistaken for prostitutes in SK. The majority of foreign English teachers in Korea are males.

    But keep calling the link about the actual study I posted "stupid" while spamming random videos of Kpop fans and a pseudonymous blog post in which a white woman was asked if she was Russian by a middle eastern man, anecdote anecdote.
    This obviously translates to "the most common question women are asked in Korea is if they are Russian".


    Actually, Koreans are basically herbivore men like in Japan and have a very reserved introverted culture:

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/society/article/2182776/single-minded-forget-marriage-south-koreans-arent-even-dating


    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but "easy", most men would be too timid to even approach one.

    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but “easy”, most men would be too timid to even approach one.

    There are dozens of YouTube channels of European and American women who live in South Korea and are dating or married to Korean men. Just do a search and watch a few videos of their experiences.

    If you talk to single expat women in Korea – and my wife and I have IN KOREA – they’ll tell you that 1) they get asked a lot about being “Russian” and 2) get hit on by Korean guys at clubs and bars, guys who don’t even speak English.

    Have you ever lived and worked in Korea?

  209. @Peter Frost
    South Korean households spend the highest fraction of income on education in the developed world

    In the global marketplace, South Korea has only one natural advantage: the cognitive ability of its people. Unfortunately, this advantage will disappear as the country opens up to immigrants, often as mail-order brides from Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Cambodia. In 2010, 10% of married couples were binational, an increase from 4% in 2000, according to Statistics Korea. The figure is higher in rural areas: about 40%. It is projected that children of mixed parentage will represent about 50% of rural children in 2020 (Park, 2011).

    These children do badly at school: "The drop-out rate among mixed-blood youths is estimated at 9.4% in elementary schools and 17.5% at the secondary level, compared with less than 3% among ordinary Korean youths (Docuinfor 2004). These youngsters may be alienated from mainstream society, feeling prejudice and discrimination, and frustration about the lack of positive future prospects" (Kang, 2010).

    This underperformance is blamed on poor language skills, i.e., the children improperly learn the Korean language at home. If the above explanation is correct, these children should do worse in subjects that demand much social interaction and language use. Conversely, they should do better in subjects that require abstract skills, like mathematics, or memorization of names and dates, like social studies. This is, in fact, the pattern we see among children of East Asian immigrants in North America.

    But this is not really the pattern we see among children born in South Korea to non-Korean mothers: "Their favourite subjects are music/painting/physical education (42.6%), while they dislike math (38.1%), social studies (19.2%) and Korean (12.7%)" (Kang, 2010).

    The learning deficit seems to be strongest in those subjects that require the most abstraction and memorization.

    References

    Kang, S.W. (2010). Multicultural education and the rights to education of migrant children in South Korea, Educational Review, 62(3), 287-300

    Park, S. (2011). Korean Multiculturalism and the Marriage Squeeze, Contexts, 10, 64-65.

    I believe this to be the fundamental weakness South Korea has in comparison to Japan and China. A few million migrants from South East Asia have the ability to forever change the course of the Han River muddying and clogging it’s flow. While such a group would simply be dissolved in China by the Han Sea.

  210. @Twinkie

    they are the least popular group of men with women
     
    Again, not what marriage rates say.

    Don’t confuse online dating preferences with general mating/marriage preferences.

    Twinkie, I think you misunderstand me. I’m not saying Asian men are inferior to black men. I think they are superior and make better husbands. As women go higher up on the income and education scale they are more likely to pick Asian men over black men. Since marriage now primarily takes place among the wealthier and more educated, you can’t take who marries who as representative of the general population. I think a problem that many of the commenters here have is that they themselves are of above average income and education. Due to that, they travel in circles of similar people that are not typical of the population in general and thus draw false conclusions from their observations.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Since marriage now primarily takes place among the wealthier and more educated, you can’t take who marries who as representative of the general population.
     
    It's hard to say which is more representative of the general population - marriage numbers and percentages or online dating data. I am not a betting man, but if I were to wager, it'd be the marriage numbers, primarily because it reflects long-term partnership selection and requires much more effort and genuine intent. Meanwhile online dating, though growing in popularity, is still highly selected segment of the population, and it is very "low effort," to boot. Most people still find their partners in schools, churches, workplaces or through their family-social network.
  211. @Sam Coulton

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.”
     
    Yeah, right. This never happens.

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”
     
    What an absurd thing to say. Most Koreans have never even seen a blond woman before and they never get asked this.

    Anyway they already did studies on white,and specifically blond women in East Asia and they are desexualized there.

    http://sciencenordic.com/blond-sexy-and-immigrant


    In the US Swedish women were the whitest of the white, and they were sometimes over-sexualised. But Swedish whiteness did not fit into society in Singapore at all. According to Lundström there is much focus on whiteness in Singapore.

    Ads for skin whitening products are common, and whiteness is the ideal. But the ideal of beauty is not a white, blond western woman.

    “Western women were ranked below the Chinese in the racial hierarchy. The western whiteness is not as posh as the Singaporean, Chinese whiteness,” says Lundström. Swedish women in the US were very preoccupied with American men, whereas the Swedish women in Singapore were not the least interested in Asian men. They focused on their Swedish husbands.

    Asian women, on the other hand, represented a possible rival, since Swedish men found Asian women attractive. “The Swedish women in Singapore were almost desexualised. They felt less feminine,” says Lundström.
     

    Twinkie’s just in denial on how White women aren’t the pinnacle of attraction. Even when confronted with hard science he just spams rap music or whatever and yaps about his Lived Experience (read: solipsism).

    The stats show that on the street White women are not the most attractive.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    It is really quite hard to say who is most attractive. Do you mean most sexually desirable or most desired for marriage? Do you look at marriage rates, online dating habits or offline dating habits? The average online dater is a college grad so they may not be representative. I can't find any studies that include everyone. So if I make a claim about everyone I can't prove it with a study but at the same time if someone makes an opposite claim they can't prove it either.
    , @Twinkie

    Twinkie’s just in denial on how White women aren’t the pinnacle of attraction.
     
    That's not what I wrote.

    hard science
     
    Don't make me laugh. Ever hear of replication crisis? So many of you seem blissfully ignorant of what is known as "selection effect." Study results - even when they can be replicated - don't mean much for the general public if the dataset is highly selected. Citing an online dating website's data and attributing it the awesome power of "which race is the most attractive?" is the very definition of falling for the selection effect and is hardly "hard science" or science of any type. Most of you are much to keen to jump on any "study" that confirms your priors.

    The stats show that on the street White women are not the most attractive.
     
    The only thing most people seem to agree on is that black women are the least attractive. I've seen plenty of attractive Asians, Latinas, and whites. The question then becomes one of proportions. I cannot answer that question, because I've never seen any reliable data that measure the "attractiveness" of representative samples of each. The only thing I can say is from my experience, my subjective experience, of what *I* find attractive in females.

    In my view, the advantages that white women have are the varied eye and hair colors, fair skin, and height (long legs!). I actually think that A LOT more white women would be seen as attractive if 1) they were trimmer (as obesity is becoming out of control among downscale white females) and 2) they were more graceful in manner and dress, the lack of which I attribute to the degraded behavioral standards of the age.

    What East Asian women bring to the table are slimness (they are the least obese of the races), relatively high intelligence, good morals, and aging well.

    Latinas are attractive, because the best looking ones seem "exotic" and because they are probably the most traditional-feminine among the three. And paradoxically they also have a reputation of being quick to have sex. The downsides are, again, they have reputation of being quick to have sex, they tend to be increasingly obese as well, they are short (which is a deadly combination), and they tend to age very poorly. Furthermore, in the United States, most are very downscale economically and cognitively.
  212. @Sam Coulton
    Not even close. Multiple graphs posted here show that Asian men are just as likely to pick "hispanic-black-other" women as they are white women. The dating site data suggests they may dislike white women, and white women in East Asia frequently report feeling desexualized and undesired (there aren't a lot of "Chads" in East Asia to compete with). It's Asian, Hispanic and mixed-raced women who are the most sought after and fetishized.

    Have you ever considered just putting all your sources on racial gaps in attractiveness on one big post or webpage or something? I’m not being sarcastic, I actually find your posts informative.

  213. @Sam Coulton
    This is a way of blowing off steam, whether uttered by White men or Asian men. Multiple studies confirm that interracial couples are more attractive than intraracial couples, this link concerns one of them:

    https://www.psypost.org/2015/07/study-finds-interracial-daters-in-college-are-more-physically-attractive-3597

    As for China's 'leftover women': The term "leftover woman" in China designates a woman in her 30s who hasn't married or had children, often upper middle class and educated -- and typically highly attractive. These are the most likely to marry foreigners or to emigrate to Western countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheng_nu#Culture_and_statistics

    China has no "leftover women" in the sense of what you think that phrase means. China likely has a massive sex imbalance in the lower classes and has imported millions of women from North Korea, Siberia, southeast Asia and African countries to compensate for years of sex-selective adoption and abortion.

    >Multiple studies confirm that interracial couples are more attractive than intraracial couples

    Do you have more studies showing that?

  214. @Twinkie
    How many of you have lived in Japan or Korea?

    Attractive white girls are mobbed by Korean guys at clubs and bars who are looking to “ride the white horse.” What they have trouble getting are long-term boyfriends or husbands, because of cultural reasons and because white women are - compared to Korean women - perceived to be slutty/untrustworthy. They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Aegyo).

    The number one question blondes get in Korea is “Are You Russian?” and “How much?”

    While white women who aren’t with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.
     
    If you looked at the marriage data, you’d realize that there is quite a socio-economic difference between white women who marry black men as opposed to Asian men.

    I see Asian male-white female pairings frequently, because of my particular socio-economic and geographic background. It has little, if any, to do with “dominance” and has to do with assortative nature of marriage.

    “They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women .”

    “generally pleasing and engaging often because of a childlike charm and innocence.”

    I think all men prize this in women, it’s just pretty rare in Western ones these days.

    Working with high-caste Tamil girls was like going back in time – demure, downcast eyes as the default – then the odd occasion they’d look full into your eyes and flash a 110 watt smile. I was nearly twice their age but found it quite charming. None of them were what a Westerner would consider a beauty, but that didn’t seem to matter.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    demure, downcast eyes as the default
     
    Why anyone would expect this from White women is beyond me. We are our father's daughters, after all.
  215. @anon
    Twinkie's just in denial on how White women aren't the pinnacle of attraction. Even when confronted with hard science he just spams rap music or whatever and yaps about his Lived Experience (read: solipsism).

    The stats show that on the street White women are not the most attractive.

    It is really quite hard to say who is most attractive. Do you mean most sexually desirable or most desired for marriage? Do you look at marriage rates, online dating habits or offline dating habits? The average online dater is a college grad so they may not be representative. I can’t find any studies that include everyone. So if I make a claim about everyone I can’t prove it with a study but at the same time if someone makes an opposite claim they can’t prove it either.

  216. @AaronB
    Sure...

    Well, the fact that you are attracted to Stoicism shows that you find this life problematic, and enjoying it not a simple and uncomplicated matter. You must employ mental strategies to avoid pain.

    And these strategies work, but they are sub-optimal.

    Stoicism counsels detachment - which does not suggest enjoying pleasures is the most important thing in this life, as you say.

    Detachment implies that the pleasures of this world are not, in themselves, of ultimate value. That, in fact, we achieve a more satisfying state by being somewhat above the pleasures of this world.

    Since we detach from the physical, does that not imply the spiritual - the non physical? And the Stoic emphasis on moral duty suggests satisfaction is to be found in concern with non-physical things, does it not?

    So Stoicism clearly shares much ground with religion. Pleasures are not, in themselves, bad, and they should be enjoyed moderately.

    But clearly, Stoicism implies they are not of ultimate value, and even contain danger.

    The only issue with Stoicism is that it does not follow up its own implications. It accepts that pleasure and physical objects are not ultimate sources of satisfaction, it says a non physical state - morality - is far more satisfying, but then it stops.

    While Stoicism puts the emphasis on avoiding pain, a negative, it does contain a positive source of satisfaction - moral duty.

    And the moral realm is the beginning of the spiritual realm.

    It is the beginnings of religion, and it flowed into Christianity.

    As for Buddhism, it says that there is an escape from the world of unsatisfactoriness - it says there is "the other shore", which you can reach if you try, where pain and death are vanquished.

    That goes beyond Stoicism, which stops short of positing "another world" reachable by our efforts.

    And I think this is the ultimate implication of recognising that the physical world does not fully satisfy our desire for value.

    As for Protestantism - well, it gradually became about physical things and lost its connection to the invisible spiritual world. It doesn't work for most people anymore.

    Stoicism is a secular ethical and philosophical system. More practically, it’s an attitude. As you allude to, it’s not inherently incompatible with Christianity, for example.

    Separately, I’m agnostic, with all the shortcomings that implies (and that you described above).

  217. @216
    Some who pulled a Leo Strauss on Roosh's writings alleged that he was basically running a numbers game, and that his pickup ability was nothing near what his reputation implied.

    The free content was enough vicarious living for me, I never had interest in living the lifestyle.

    ---

    The manosphere dislikes the idea of a "Male wall", but there are socially useful reasons to construct such a wall and place it one or two years behind the female Wall.

    Perhaps its White Knighting, but there's also a case for younger men to c*ckblock the men of a certain age. Not an encouragement for Incel to go on an E. Rodger bloodbath, but their appearance at certain bars could be a "turd in the punch bowl".

    I used to derisively call PUA the Boomhauer Strategy. That’s not fair, obviously–but it’s not completely off the mark, either.

    • LOL: Rosie
  218. @Peter Frost
    South Korean households spend the highest fraction of income on education in the developed world

    In the global marketplace, South Korea has only one natural advantage: the cognitive ability of its people. Unfortunately, this advantage will disappear as the country opens up to immigrants, often as mail-order brides from Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Cambodia. In 2010, 10% of married couples were binational, an increase from 4% in 2000, according to Statistics Korea. The figure is higher in rural areas: about 40%. It is projected that children of mixed parentage will represent about 50% of rural children in 2020 (Park, 2011).

    These children do badly at school: "The drop-out rate among mixed-blood youths is estimated at 9.4% in elementary schools and 17.5% at the secondary level, compared with less than 3% among ordinary Korean youths (Docuinfor 2004). These youngsters may be alienated from mainstream society, feeling prejudice and discrimination, and frustration about the lack of positive future prospects" (Kang, 2010).

    This underperformance is blamed on poor language skills, i.e., the children improperly learn the Korean language at home. If the above explanation is correct, these children should do worse in subjects that demand much social interaction and language use. Conversely, they should do better in subjects that require abstract skills, like mathematics, or memorization of names and dates, like social studies. This is, in fact, the pattern we see among children of East Asian immigrants in North America.

    But this is not really the pattern we see among children born in South Korea to non-Korean mothers: "Their favourite subjects are music/painting/physical education (42.6%), while they dislike math (38.1%), social studies (19.2%) and Korean (12.7%)" (Kang, 2010).

    The learning deficit seems to be strongest in those subjects that require the most abstraction and memorization.

    References

    Kang, S.W. (2010). Multicultural education and the rights to education of migrant children in South Korea, Educational Review, 62(3), 287-300

    Park, S. (2011). Korean Multiculturalism and the Marriage Squeeze, Contexts, 10, 64-65.

    Wow, that’s staggering. Thanks.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    Yes, a strange experiment is being conducted in South Korea: the western model of population replacement has been transplanted to East Asia. There are a few differences:

    • The fertility rate is lower: only 0.98 children per woman. As a result, the children of immigrant mothers are already a substantial proportion of the school population.

    • Chinese are the largest group of immigrants, but their demographic impact is less than that of southeast Asian immigrants. There are also growing numbers of South Asians, West Asians, and Africans.

    • South Korea is next to a country that is very unhappy with this demographic transformation. A strange role reversal is taking place: the south is becoming the land of radical social change, while the north increasingly represents traditional Korea.
  219. @YetAnotherAnon
    "They are also thought to lack “aegyo” which Korean men prize in women ."

    "generally pleasing and engaging often because of a childlike charm and innocence."

    I think all men prize this in women, it's just pretty rare in Western ones these days.

    Working with high-caste Tamil girls was like going back in time - demure, downcast eyes as the default - then the odd occasion they'd look full into your eyes and flash a 110 watt smile. I was nearly twice their age but found it quite charming. None of them were what a Westerner would consider a beauty, but that didn't seem to matter.

    demure, downcast eyes as the default

    Why anyone would expect this from White women is beyond me. We are our father’s daughters, after all.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    "Why anyone would expect this from White women is beyond me. "

    I don't expect it. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just sorry it's long gone, and it was nice to experience it again.
  220. @Oleaginous Outrager
    It's a long way from 'never' to 'often'.

    It’s a long way from ‘never’ to ‘often’.

    Yet the trend is unmistakable.

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
    What 'trend'?
  221. @Anonymous

    The dating site data suggests they may dislike white women, and white women in East Asia frequently report feeling desexualized and undesired (there aren’t a lot of “Chads” in East Asia to compete with).
     
    Yes, white women are generally ignored in East Asia by the men there, where East Asian men are in the overwhelming majority. This woman's experience is quite common in East Asia:

    https://vagabondish.com/female-foreign-japan/

    “We usually have a tough time keeping female teachers here,” my boss informed me on my first day of work as an English teacher in Tokyo. “They usually don’t last more than six months.” I looked up from studying the roster list of teachers (30 — all male), in surprise.

    “You mean at this school?”

    “No, I mean … in Japan.” He shrugged. “Tokyo’s a tough city to be single … If you’re, you know … a western woman.”

    I don’t think I’ll have a problem, I thought.

    It wasn’t that I was beauty queen gorgeous. Far from it. Slim, medium-height, with hazel eyes and freckles, I was at best ‘cute’ and at worst, average. But I had something that the competition didn’t: long, naturally curly, blond hair. Furthermore, I was bilingual, well-traveled and college-educated.

    But as I realized a few weeks into my stay in Japan, I was also mysteriously, frustratingly invisible.
     
    It is probably due to physical and behavioral incompatibility. White women are generally larger and more behaviorally dominant than Asian, Hispanic, half-Asian women. Men and women typically gravitate towards matches where the man is larger and behaviorally and stereotypically more "masculine" and dominant. Thus Asian men would tend to seek out Asian, Hispanic, part-Asian, etc. women. While white women who aren't with white men tend to pair up with black, Middle Eastern, etc. men.

    White women are generally larger and more behaviorally dominant than Asian, Hispanic, half-Asian women.

    Some thoughts:

    Asian men don’t talk, so you have to carry on the conversation by yourself

    When they do talk, they tend not to say things that are interesting to White women, being more conventional and conformist.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Loquaciousness and verbal bombast are related to behavioral and social dominance. Socially dominant men tend to be talkative and verbally bombastic. Asians are known for being quiet and reserved. So the fact that Asian men tend to be quieter than other men would be related to the greater physical and behavioral incompatibility between Asian men and white women compared to Asian men and Asian/Hispanic/part-Asian women.

    I doubt that white women tend to pair up with black men over Asian men because Asian men have less interesting things to say in terms of content. Blacks tend to talk a lot without saying anything meaningful, let alone interesting. It's the aspects of talking and speech that are related to behavioral and social dominance that appeals to women such as being talkative, having verbal bombast and charisma rather than the informational content.
  222. @Achmed E. Newman
    I am not part of any of the manosphere websites, though I would happily join any cause like the MRA that support justice in family law. I don't like to see men treated like the slaves of yesteryear by family courts and the highly-screwed-up American "justice system".

    That aside, cause it was not the point, I think you get this wrong. The Alpha/Beta/Gamma business has lots of truth to it, but no, it doesn't explain everything, and not all women like the same thing in men. Some even have a little integrity, but its in short supply. The thing about them liking black men so much, nah! The big fat white tattooed chicks have no choice possibly, but .. oh, they could slim down, I forgot about that. I also think some of them want to "stick it" to the family by dating black men. Anyway, alphas don't equal black men from the bit I've read.

    What those manosphere sites (the Heartistes, etc) do for some men, even if they don't want to be totally dishonest (often the way to a woman's heart body), is to show some confidence that they don't yet really have. I suppose you could say that's a little dishonest, but confidence is an emotion, so ...

    I truly would have been better off learning some of that stuff had I'd read more or talked to the right people. I will teach my boy that "no" does not necessarily mean "no" and a lot of other things about women's innate compulsion to lie, so that he can get laid more easily. It's very important that he not expect women to be "men of their word", though I teach him to be a man of his word. It just doesn't work the same, and he needs to understand that while still young.

    A big problem is that women want to think that men want what the women want them to want. It doesn't work that way. Men want women with very obvious curves. That is job 1. We know what we want, and all the tweets in the world about fat women rocking and such don't change the truth.

    Your big argument against this post will be your emotion coming out to tell me that "no, it's NOT this way" because you DON'T WANT IT TO BE THIS WAY. You have been exhibit A as a teaching tool in the comments here, and I appreciate that a lot. I seek truth, and I will teach my son to seek truth. I'm sorry the truth upsets you so much, Rosie.

    . I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no” and a lot of other things

    And then come here and bitch about an epidemic of false rape allegations, no doubt.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, funny, but, as I wrote back to Toronto Russian, I would never expect him to act like a douche, and as I wrote to SFG, he needs to stay away from the flakey ones so that won't happen. There's a whole thread here.

    I just don't want him to miss out, as I did a few times, by taking a woman at her word.
    , @Twinkie

    I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no”
     
    I agree with you that this is crazy-talk.
  223. @Peter Frost
    South Korean households spend the highest fraction of income on education in the developed world

    In the global marketplace, South Korea has only one natural advantage: the cognitive ability of its people. Unfortunately, this advantage will disappear as the country opens up to immigrants, often as mail-order brides from Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Cambodia. In 2010, 10% of married couples were binational, an increase from 4% in 2000, according to Statistics Korea. The figure is higher in rural areas: about 40%. It is projected that children of mixed parentage will represent about 50% of rural children in 2020 (Park, 2011).

    These children do badly at school: "The drop-out rate among mixed-blood youths is estimated at 9.4% in elementary schools and 17.5% at the secondary level, compared with less than 3% among ordinary Korean youths (Docuinfor 2004). These youngsters may be alienated from mainstream society, feeling prejudice and discrimination, and frustration about the lack of positive future prospects" (Kang, 2010).

    This underperformance is blamed on poor language skills, i.e., the children improperly learn the Korean language at home. If the above explanation is correct, these children should do worse in subjects that demand much social interaction and language use. Conversely, they should do better in subjects that require abstract skills, like mathematics, or memorization of names and dates, like social studies. This is, in fact, the pattern we see among children of East Asian immigrants in North America.

    But this is not really the pattern we see among children born in South Korea to non-Korean mothers: "Their favourite subjects are music/painting/physical education (42.6%), while they dislike math (38.1%), social studies (19.2%) and Korean (12.7%)" (Kang, 2010).

    The learning deficit seems to be strongest in those subjects that require the most abstraction and memorization.

    References

    Kang, S.W. (2010). Multicultural education and the rights to education of migrant children in South Korea, Educational Review, 62(3), 287-300

    Park, S. (2011). Korean Multiculturalism and the Marriage Squeeze, Contexts, 10, 64-65.

    This is what I referred to as the “hypergamy problem” in ROK.

    Is there a chance that the ROK government will start importing DPRK women?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Is there a chance that the ROK government will start importing DPRK women?
     
    North Korean defectors to the South adjust very poorly to living in freedom and autonomy and are disproportionately represented in the under class. Women often become bar hostesses and prostitutes.

    It is only the older generation in South Korea, now dying out, that wants reunification. The younger ones will say pro-unification pieties in public, but when you probe deeper, most of them don't want North Koreans in the South due to the social problems they have seen with the defectors and because they fear that a flood of refugees will damage South Korea's economy and their standard of living.
    , @Johann Ricke

    Is there a chance that the ROK government will start importing DPRK women?
     
    All North Koreans are automatically South Korean citizens if they can get to a South Korean embassy. If.
  224. 216 says:
    @Anonymous
    Hongdae is that hipsterish area around a university with lots of nightlife. White women are not common there at all, and the area has a hipsterish, laid back vibe rather than a typical clubbing one. More artsy type bars and clubs than typical nightclubs. Much less "approaching" than in clubs and bars in the US. Koreans tend to go to matchmaking type clubs called booking clubs to meet strangers.

    You have a tendency of using anecdotes and a few or isolated examples, like the example of your own life, to make claims about averages and large populations. You've said in the comments that you're 6'2", ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, Unz Review reader and commenter, etc. Most Asian men are none of those things, let alone all of them. You are probably literally the only Asian man on the planet who is all of those things. Your example is basically irrelevant and worthless for illustrating the broader population.

    6’2″, ex-military, a fervent Catholic

    President Moon of ROK is these attributes. The height is rather tall for any country.

    gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing

    Not particularly uncommon in the rural red parts of the United States.

    On an intersectional level, Mr. Twinkie may be uncommon, but its relevant to also note that anyone that comments on Unz is basically a statistical oddity. (Recall jokes about “Unzstan”) We have Nigerians that post here, after all.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    President Moon of ROK is these attributes.
     
    Yeah, he was special forces, not just an ordinary conscript, and took part in Operational Paul Bunyan. It's unusual he turned out so leftist. I worked with the Black Berets when I was in ROK and those guys, at least in my time, were pretty rightist.

    Not particularly uncommon in the rural red parts of the United States.
     
    I know quite a few Asian males who are "gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing" though they are not as tall as I am and they are Protestants.

    We have special handshakes. ;)
  225. @Rosie

    . I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no” and a lot of other things
     
    And then come here and bitch about an epidemic of false rape allegations, no doubt.

    Yeah, funny, but, as I wrote back to Toronto Russian, I would never expect him to act like a douche, and as I wrote to SFG, he needs to stay away from the flakey ones so that won’t happen. There’s a whole thread here.

    I just don’t want him to miss out, as I did a few times, by taking a woman at her word.

  226. @Anonymous
    The Y-axis in your graph represents share of all married couples. It doesn't tell us about the overall marriage rate. In fact, the US marriage rate started hitting historic lows between 2010 and 2015, right around where the blue and yellow lines cross in your graph. That is, when the share of all marriages in which the husband is less educated than the wife hit record highs, marriage rates were hitting record lows. This is consistent with Lot's claim: fewer women are getting married as marriage is increasingly characterized as eloping with a less educated man.

    It's hard to tell exactly from your graph, but it looks like around 1980 was when you had the greatest share of marriages in which the husband was more educated than the wife. That was roughly the time, the early 80s, when marriages peaked in the US:

    https://rhiever.github.io/marriage-divorce-stats/marriages_divorces.html

    Education is a proxy for social status, prestige, income, etc., so this data suggests that if you want a society with high rates of monogamous marriage, then men on average have to have greater status than women. It's basically a form of sexual dimorphism that has to be maintained in order to make men acceptable mates to women. If you made the average man a foot shorter than the average woman, women's marriage and sexual interest in average men would drop significantly.

    The Y-axis in your graph represents share of all married couples. It doesn’t tell us about the overall marriage rate.

    Still waiting for evidence that women (rather than men) re shunning marriage. I guess I’ll be waiting till Kingdom Come, since no such evidence exists.

  227. It’s fascinating how an obvious physical outlier for a Korean male (and good for him, frankly — we all do the best with what we have!) is dominating a thead by insinuating that his own outlierishness is somehow representative of anything broader than himself and other similar outlierish people he happens to have in his social circle.

    Where I am (DC area), there are really very few AM/WW couples, married or unmarried (the latter seems to be curiously irrelevant for most of the posters here, particularly the non-white ones, which is odd considering that the latter leads to the former, typically at least, but I digress …. ) and many more WM/AF couples. I guess everything isn’t that simple.

    The other point is that at least in DC here we see a lot of rather attractive young women with black men. Now they may not marry them, but in DC we don’t have much of a white working class at all — these are educated women. They date attractive, masculine, black men. Now I know in this thread it has been stated as an axiom that whom people date/fuck is irrelevant, and the only thing relevant is who they marry and breed with, but to be honest one leads to the other in most cases.

    And anyway, carry on.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Women have a conciliatory trait. Many of them don't have a clue as to what to do to make things "better." (Who the f*** does?) But they can personally participate in a possible solution by creating a beige race. Think Sabine women.
    , @L Woods
    It’s all over. The product of female choice and the endless promotion of blacks by the media and the rest of the power structure. You’ll see single mothers with beige babies in tow all over “conservative” America.
  228. @Twinkie

    Yeah, right. This never happens.
     
    Try Hongdae in Seoul.
    https://youtu.be/vsiUPbzHmVg

    What an absurd thing to say. Most Koreans have never even seen a blond woman before and they never get asked this.
     
    You don’t seem to realize even rural areas of South Korea now have foreign language teachers from overseas. Forget about Seoul or Busan.

    http://www.world-walk-about.com/northern-asia/south-korea/why-men-in-korea-think-im-a-prostitute/

    Ask a white expat female in South Korea and she’ll give you the “Are You Russian?” stories.

    Anyway they already did studies on white,and specifically blond women in East Asia and they are desexualized there.
     
    I don’t know what stupid “study” you are citing, but blonde women being seen as “easy” and hyper sexualized is widespread, including in Japan and South Korea.
    https://youtu.be/xikCrbOAP5Q
    Unsurprisingly, this Swedish young woman had no trouble in attracting men in Korea. I think she had a Korean boyfriend while she lived there. Men are men everywhere - they like to bed attractive women.

    Personally, I think that some NW European people look fairly homely*, although American amalgamations of Brit/French/Irish-Catholic/Germanic people are probably more attractive, on average (once you adjust for the obesity rate). North-Eastern Europeans, though, are very attractive on average. Probably the best looking people in the world.

    *I’m often struck by how, well, ugly some of the male celebrities of the UK and Germany are. American whites and Scandinavians to some extent seem more attractive.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Personally, I think that some NW European people look fairly homely
     
    See my response to another commenter above for my take on the advantages vs. disadvantages of women of different races.

    American whites and Scandinavians to some extent seem more attractive.
     
    Ordinary Scandinavians are rather plump-looking. There is a SEVERE overrating of Scandinavian women in the media. Also, it's hard to find Scandinavian women who stay trim (if at all to begin with) as they age. The first time I visited Sweden was a HUGE letdown.

    People don't realize how attractive American women are compared to much of the rest of the world. Some of that is not genetic. High living standards, excellent dental and beauty/skin care, and good medical care all contribute to people looking healthy and fit (which significantly affect how attractive they look). It's for the same reasons that Korean women (in Korea) now look much more attractive than their mothers (even accounting for plastic surgery).

    The number one problem for American women is the obesity epidemic (that and the fact that they dress very poorly). Nothing repels men like women developing a tube around the waist, because it kills that golden 0.7 waist-to-hip ratio that is indicative of good health and high fertility.
  229. @Mark G.
    Twinkie, I think you misunderstand me. I'm not saying Asian men are inferior to black men. I think they are superior and make better husbands. As women go higher up on the income and education scale they are more likely to pick Asian men over black men. Since marriage now primarily takes place among the wealthier and more educated, you can't take who marries who as representative of the general population. I think a problem that many of the commenters here have is that they themselves are of above average income and education. Due to that, they travel in circles of similar people that are not typical of the population in general and thus draw false conclusions from their observations.

    Since marriage now primarily takes place among the wealthier and more educated, you can’t take who marries who as representative of the general population.

    It’s hard to say which is more representative of the general population – marriage numbers and percentages or online dating data. I am not a betting man, but if I were to wager, it’d be the marriage numbers, primarily because it reflects long-term partnership selection and requires much more effort and genuine intent. Meanwhile online dating, though growing in popularity, is still highly selected segment of the population, and it is very “low effort,” to boot. Most people still find their partners in schools, churches, workplaces or through their family-social network.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Mark G.
    I was under the impression that online dating would be representative of the general population and that it would show black men to be more popular than Asian men with white females since that was what I personally observed in everyday life. Rosie produced information, though, that definitely shows that black men are least popular online with white females. My immediate reaction was that either my personal observations aren't representative or online dating results aren't representative. I think it's a little of both. I checked online dating statistics and it shows the typical online dater has a college degree which is not representative of the general population. On the other hand, I know a lot of working class whites so my observations aren't representative either. I think you would find as you go up the education scale larger numbers of white female-black male couples near the bottom and more white female-Asian male couples among people with higher educational levels near the top.
  230. @Anonymous
    Hongdae is that hipsterish area around a university with lots of nightlife. White women are not common there at all, and the area has a hipsterish, laid back vibe rather than a typical clubbing one. More artsy type bars and clubs than typical nightclubs. Much less "approaching" than in clubs and bars in the US. Koreans tend to go to matchmaking type clubs called booking clubs to meet strangers.

    You have a tendency of using anecdotes and a few or isolated examples, like the example of your own life, to make claims about averages and large populations. You've said in the comments that you're 6'2", ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, Unz Review reader and commenter, etc. Most Asian men are none of those things, let alone all of them. You are probably literally the only Asian man on the planet who is all of those things. Your example is basically irrelevant and worthless for illustrating the broader population.

    Hongdae is that hipsterish area around a university with lots of nightlife. White women are not common there at all

    What’s your definition of common? When I was in Hongdae a couple of years back (with my wife), I actually saw a pretty decent number of white females. If I had to guess, it was probably around 1-in-10 among women in that area. But that could be because we were taken there by white expatriates, so they may have picked places popular with the expatriate crowd. Be that as it may, my point wasn’t so much that there is a surfeit of white females running around in Korea, but rather it was to contradict the claim that most Koreans never see white women. That is patently false these days. And Hongdae being a university area, it attracts a disproportionately higher numbers of foreigners, including foreign females (the number of foreigners studying at Korean universities has skyrocketed in recent years).

    You have a tendency of using anecdotes and a few or isolated examples, like the example of your own life, to make claims about averages and large populations.

    I do use anecdotes sometimes, but I don’t use them “to make claims about averages and large populations.” What I use anecdotes for is to falsify highly generalized (sometimes absolutist) claims others make. To few of you understand the difference between the two.

    You’ve said in the comments that you’re 6’2″, ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, Unz Review reader and commenter, etc. Most Asian men are none of those things, let alone all of them. You are probably literally the only Asian man on the planet who is all of those things.

    When you put it like that, I do sound pretty awesome. 🙂

    I got news for you fella. Replace any single one of those factors with something else (Asian with black, a fervent Catholic with a Jew, etc. ) and you are going to have a pretty small slice of the population, because it’s an intersection of many different things. Heck, it’s not going to be that easy to find too many WHITES who are all those things. That doesn’t mean what those whites have observed or seen are invalid or nonexistent.

  231. @Sam Coulton
    I haven't seen a single piece of evidence from you that Korean men pursue white women in clubs or that blond women are mistaken for prostitutes in SK. The majority of foreign English teachers in Korea are males.

    But keep calling the link about the actual study I posted "stupid" while spamming random videos of Kpop fans and a pseudonymous blog post in which a white woman was asked if she was Russian by a middle eastern man, anecdote anecdote.
    This obviously translates to "the most common question women are asked in Korea is if they are Russian".


    Actually, Koreans are basically herbivore men like in Japan and have a very reserved introverted culture:

    https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/society/article/2182776/single-minded-forget-marriage-south-koreans-arent-even-dating


    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but "easy", most men would be too timid to even approach one.

    I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence from you that Korean men pursue white women in clubs or that blond women are mistaken for prostitutes in SK.

    Usually it’s the middle aged men (“Ajeossi”) who approach the foreign women thinking the latter are prostitutes, but this poor gal was approached by a granny! “How much?”

    And why do they all ask about Russians?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea

    Russian

    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, young Russian girls have been commonly seen in the red-light districts of Korea.[41] They can be found in the bars, strip clubs and coffee shops for entertaining the customers.[42] Between January 2000 and March 2001, approximately 6,000 Russian women entered Korea through Busan port and Gimpo. In 2000, 3,064 Russians entered South Korea on E-6 visas, 2,927 of them women (Jhoty, 2001)[43] With the collapse of the Soviet Union, thousands of Russian migrated to Korea to work as entertainers while others forced into prostitution for both American soldiers and Korean civilian men.[44] Many Korean men actively seek out Russian women because they satisfy not only their desire for dominance over exotic females but also the latent psychological need to overcome their complex.[45]

    Blondes are “desexualized” in East Asia? Get the heck out of here. There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women – “to ride a white horse.” You think that expression exists to express undesirability?

    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but “easy”, most men would be too timid to even approach one.

    Listen to this blonde talking about her Tinder in Korea experience and how she met her boyfriend there:

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton

    Blondes are “desexualized” in East Asia? Get the heck out of here. There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women – “to ride a white horse.” You think that expression exists to express undesirability?
     
    You have failed to provide a single piece of evidence that blond women are not desexualized in East Asia - just a handful of random videos of KPOP fans talking on YouTube (which no one ia going to sit through) and quotes about Russian immigrants in Korea -- the majority of whom are ethnic Koreans (Koryo-saram) and ex-Soviet ethnic minorities. Why don't you find me actual videos of Korean males catcalling blond females in a club?

    3,000 mostly nonwhite "Russian" women entering South Korea (population over 50 million) yearly is a drop in the bucket and cannot result in your imaginary "sayings". Meanwhile, the preeminent female sociologist in Sweden (Cat Lundström) has found that blond women are dessexualized in East Asia and considered unattractive. Anne-Meike Fechter has found that white women in southeast Asia are also less attractive:


    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/taja.12138


    This paper illustrates how cultural logics of desire are being transformed in the context of the global economy refashioning intimate lives. Exploring the experiences of Euro‐American female professionals in Jakarta, it suggests that they become uncomfortably visible as ‘white bodies’; their desirability appears compromised, especially given Orientalist discourses which valorise Asian women's bodies. At the same time, women's position as well paid employees generates a contradictory logic of desire: the ‘ego boost’ they experience at work may intensify their demands on the masculinity and enlightened views of potential partners, thus rendering Indonesian men, with their perceived bodily effeminacy and ‘traditional values’ unattractive. As one response to the lack of desirability, some women engage in a moral discourse that casts Indonesian women whom they consider ‘bargirls’, as well as the Euro‐American men they attract, as morally deficient. The paper thus provides an alternative perspective on reconfigurations of desire in the context of global gendered mobility.
     
    White faces are perceived as too masculine by white and Chinese judges:

    https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-27165-001


    Marriages between White men and Asian women are over twice as frequent as those between White women and Asian men. Recent research has proposed that this imbalance may be explained by the finding that, on average, White men are perceived as more attractive than Asian men, and Asian women are perceived as more attractive than White women, possibly because Asian faces are perceived as more feminine than White faces. Here, we explore whether Asian faces are perceived as more feminine than White faces. Thirty-five Malaysian Chinese (20 male) and 30 Australian White (12 male) participants manipulated 100 face photographs (50 Asian; 50 White; half male) on a masculinity/femininity axis to optimize attractive appearance. As predicted, White women’s faces were increased more in femininity than Asian women’s faces, and White men’s faces were feminized more than Asian men’s faces to optimize attractiveness. These findings suggest that White faces are perceived as more masculine than Asian faces. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2018 APA, all rights reserved)
     
    I could go on and on and on, dropping big weights on your YouTube video collection, but why bother?
    Basically, white women will never be a *hit* in East Asia. Euro phenotypes don't work on women there. They're barely even working in the West right now.
    , @Bliss

    There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women – “to ride a white horse.” You think that expression exists to express undesirability?
     
    How is comparing a woman to an animal a compliment?

    Calling a woman horse-faced is not a compliment even in the West, how much more insulting it must be in Korea where round faces are the norm and oval faces are idealized.
  232. @216

    6’2″, ex-military, a fervent Catholic
     
    President Moon of ROK is these attributes. The height is rather tall for any country.

    gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing
     
    Not particularly uncommon in the rural red parts of the United States.

    On an intersectional level, Mr. Twinkie may be uncommon, but its relevant to also note that anyone that comments on Unz is basically a statistical oddity. (Recall jokes about "Unzstan") We have Nigerians that post here, after all.

    President Moon of ROK is these attributes.

    Yeah, he was special forces, not just an ordinary conscript, and took part in Operational Paul Bunyan. It’s unusual he turned out so leftist. I worked with the Black Berets when I was in ROK and those guys, at least in my time, were pretty rightist.

    Not particularly uncommon in the rural red parts of the United States.

    I know quite a few Asian males who are “gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing” though they are not as tall as I am and they are Protestants.

    We have special handshakes. 😉

  233. @Rosie

    . I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no” and a lot of other things
     
    And then come here and bitch about an epidemic of false rape allegations, no doubt.

    I will teach my boy that “no” does not necessarily mean “no”

    I agree with you that this is crazy-talk.

  234. Anonymous[596] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Hongdae is that hipsterish area around a university with lots of nightlife. White women are not common there at all, and the area has a hipsterish, laid back vibe rather than a typical clubbing one. More artsy type bars and clubs than typical nightclubs. Much less "approaching" than in clubs and bars in the US. Koreans tend to go to matchmaking type clubs called booking clubs to meet strangers.

    You have a tendency of using anecdotes and a few or isolated examples, like the example of your own life, to make claims about averages and large populations. You've said in the comments that you're 6'2", ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, Unz Review reader and commenter, etc. Most Asian men are none of those things, let alone all of them. You are probably literally the only Asian man on the planet who is all of those things. Your example is basically irrelevant and worthless for illustrating the broader population.

    You’ve said in the comments that you’re 6’2″, ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, etc.

    The “etc.” includes being a military historian and having watched while the SAS did unspeakable things to bad guys and having made the world safe for democracy or some such silliness.
    But, curiously, he never says what branch of the armed forces he served in or, even in general terms, when. Nor does he allude in even the vaguest way to what his NEC, AFSC or MOS was. Big alarm bells. Only Fibber McGee has told more whoppers than Twinkie.
    I wouldn’t care — it’s the interwebs, after all — except that Peter Frost has been wasting time and typing engaging with this character instead of posting to his moribund blog. Come on, Frost, blog up and write! Your public is impatient. ( ᓀ ‸ ᓂ )

  235. @anon
    Twinkie's just in denial on how White women aren't the pinnacle of attraction. Even when confronted with hard science he just spams rap music or whatever and yaps about his Lived Experience (read: solipsism).

    The stats show that on the street White women are not the most attractive.

    Twinkie’s just in denial on how White women aren’t the pinnacle of attraction.

    That’s not what I wrote.

    hard science

    Don’t make me laugh. Ever hear of replication crisis? So many of you seem blissfully ignorant of what is known as “selection effect.” Study results – even when they can be replicated – don’t mean much for the general public if the dataset is highly selected. Citing an online dating website’s data and attributing it the awesome power of “which race is the most attractive?” is the very definition of falling for the selection effect and is hardly “hard science” or science of any type. Most of you are much to keen to jump on any “study” that confirms your priors.

    The stats show that on the street White women are not the most attractive.

    The only thing most people seem to agree on is that black women are the least attractive. I’ve seen plenty of attractive Asians, Latinas, and whites. The question then becomes one of proportions. I cannot answer that question, because I’ve never seen any reliable data that measure the “attractiveness” of representative samples of each. The only thing I can say is from my experience, my subjective experience, of what *I* find attractive in females.

    In my view, the advantages that white women have are the varied eye and hair colors, fair skin, and height (long legs!). I actually think that A LOT more white women would be seen as attractive if 1) they were trimmer (as obesity is becoming out of control among downscale white females) and 2) they were more graceful in manner and dress, the lack of which I attribute to the degraded behavioral standards of the age.

    What East Asian women bring to the table are slimness (they are the least obese of the races), relatively high intelligence, good morals, and aging well.

    Latinas are attractive, because the best looking ones seem “exotic” and because they are probably the most traditional-feminine among the three. And paradoxically they also have a reputation of being quick to have sex. The downsides are, again, they have reputation of being quick to have sex, they tend to be increasingly obese as well, they are short (which is a deadly combination), and they tend to age very poorly. Furthermore, in the United States, most are very downscale economically and cognitively.

    • Replies: @Bliss

    The only thing most people seem to agree on is that black women are the least attractive
     
    Lol. Nice try at deflecting attention from the glaring consensus about the men of your race?

    And that well known stereotype is confirmed for the umpteenth time by the charts above. Much to your chagrin obviously.
    , @Feryl
    I don't remember where I first heard this, but from what I understand light-skinned people develop shallow wrinkles in their 20's, but don't develop deep wrinkles until well into middle age. Whereas olive/brown/black skinned people don't develop many wrinkles at all in early adulthood, but once they get into their late 30's the aging freight train can run them over.
  236. @Feryl
    Personally, I think that some NW European people look fairly homely*, although American amalgamations of Brit/French/Irish-Catholic/Germanic people are probably more attractive, on average (once you adjust for the obesity rate). North-Eastern Europeans, though, are very attractive on average. Probably the best looking people in the world.

    *I'm often struck by how, well, ugly some of the male celebrities of the UK and Germany are. American whites and Scandinavians to some extent seem more attractive.

    Personally, I think that some NW European people look fairly homely

    See my response to another commenter above for my take on the advantages vs. disadvantages of women of different races.

    American whites and Scandinavians to some extent seem more attractive.

    Ordinary Scandinavians are rather plump-looking. There is a SEVERE overrating of Scandinavian women in the media. Also, it’s hard to find Scandinavian women who stay trim (if at all to begin with) as they age. The first time I visited Sweden was a HUGE letdown.

    People don’t realize how attractive American women are compared to much of the rest of the world. Some of that is not genetic. High living standards, excellent dental and beauty/skin care, and good medical care all contribute to people looking healthy and fit (which significantly affect how attractive they look). It’s for the same reasons that Korean women (in Korea) now look much more attractive than their mothers (even accounting for plastic surgery).

    The number one problem for American women is the obesity epidemic (that and the fact that they dress very poorly). Nothing repels men like women developing a tube around the waist, because it kills that golden 0.7 waist-to-hip ratio that is indicative of good health and high fertility.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    WRT Scandinavia, I was saying that they are slightly more attractive than Germans and esp. Brits. Phenotype is heavily genetic, and I would say that American whites benefit from being a cross between several different Euro phenotypes.

    the advantages that white women have are the varied eye and hair colors,
     
    I don't find fake blonde hair to be attractive, and most white women have naturally black or brown hair (natural blonde hair is quite a bit more common in males). Most modern white women also have artificially straight hair, which again I don't find appealing (if you look at white guys with long hair you'll get a better idea of how many white people have naturally wavy and curly hair).
  237. @Audacious Epigone
    Being about two SDs above the mean seems to be optimal in the dating market for traits like height and intelligence. Being even further above the mean than that can be harmful for dating prospects. All other traits being equal, a man who is 6'3 with an IQ of 130 is tops.

    Being about two SDs above the mean seems to be optimal in the dating market for traits like height and intelligence. Being even further above the mean than that can be harmful for dating prospects. All other traits being equal, a man who is 6’3 with an IQ of 130 is tops.

    Yes, I’m pretty lucky with height – I didn’t do a darn thing for it, I just inherited that from my short parents (whose height were depressed due to malnutrition and protein deprivation in their youths). My wife thinks that I am the perfect height – tallish, but not freakishly or ungainly tall.

    My IQ is considerably above 130 (my parents had me tested when I was young, because they were a bit worried about how precocious I was), and it’s true that average women and I didn’t mesh well. My wife told me, in her very typically complimentary fashion, that I intimidated them. And frankly I found most women unintelligent. I solved that problem by going to selective universities and hanging out among women with closer (if not quite equal)* cognitive profiles. Of the two other women I dated before my wife, one is now a diplomat for her country and the other is a physician renowned in her field.

    *My wife has a STEM doctorate and I but a Ph.D. in history, but she readily admits that I am much smarter than she is (I used to write her papers for her in college and helped her with her graduate work too, though she can probably do regression analyses much better than I can these days and she is much less of a Luddite than I am – she has an Apple Watch while I still wear a mechanical watch and use old phones).

    • Replies: @iffen
    My IQ is considerably above 130

    If this is accurate then I'm adding 15-20 points to my estimate of my IQ.

  238. @216
    This is what I referred to as the "hypergamy problem" in ROK.

    Is there a chance that the ROK government will start importing DPRK women?

    Is there a chance that the ROK government will start importing DPRK women?

    North Korean defectors to the South adjust very poorly to living in freedom and autonomy and are disproportionately represented in the under class. Women often become bar hostesses and prostitutes.

    It is only the older generation in South Korea, now dying out, that wants reunification. The younger ones will say pro-unification pieties in public, but when you probe deeper, most of them don’t want North Koreans in the South due to the social problems they have seen with the defectors and because they fear that a flood of refugees will damage South Korea’s economy and their standard of living.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Interesting--younger Koreans are less warm towards reunification? Good to have another up-and-coming data point trending towards localism rather than globalism.
  239. @Anonymous
    Hongdae is that hipsterish area around a university with lots of nightlife. White women are not common there at all, and the area has a hipsterish, laid back vibe rather than a typical clubbing one. More artsy type bars and clubs than typical nightclubs. Much less "approaching" than in clubs and bars in the US. Koreans tend to go to matchmaking type clubs called booking clubs to meet strangers.

    You have a tendency of using anecdotes and a few or isolated examples, like the example of your own life, to make claims about averages and large populations. You've said in the comments that you're 6'2", ex-military, a fervent Catholic, a gun nut, married to a white woman, a Republican, right wing, Unz Review reader and commenter, etc. Most Asian men are none of those things, let alone all of them. You are probably literally the only Asian man on the planet who is all of those things. Your example is basically irrelevant and worthless for illustrating the broader population.

    “Most Asian men are none of those things”

    Roof Koreans.

  240. @216
    This is what I referred to as the "hypergamy problem" in ROK.

    Is there a chance that the ROK government will start importing DPRK women?

    Is there a chance that the ROK government will start importing DPRK women?

    All North Koreans are automatically South Korean citizens if they can get to a South Korean embassy. If.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    All North Koreans are automatically South Korean citizens if they can get to a South Korean embassy. If.
     
    Not only that, they get substantial settlement money and adjustment/job training. Yet still many fail to adapt.

    Life is largely genes + environment. Unfortunately for these North Korean defectors, their nurture side was completely messed up.
  241. @Twinkie

    I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence from you that Korean men pursue white women in clubs or that blond women are mistaken for prostitutes in SK.
     
    Usually it's the middle aged men ("Ajeossi") who approach the foreign women thinking the latter are prostitutes, but this poor gal was approached by a granny! "How much?"
    https://youtu.be/t7MdwBu86fs?t=1m30s

    And why do they all ask about Russians?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea

    Russian

    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, young Russian girls have been commonly seen in the red-light districts of Korea.[41] They can be found in the bars, strip clubs and coffee shops for entertaining the customers.[42] Between January 2000 and March 2001, approximately 6,000 Russian women entered Korea through Busan port and Gimpo. In 2000, 3,064 Russians entered South Korea on E-6 visas, 2,927 of them women (Jhoty, 2001)[43] With the collapse of the Soviet Union, thousands of Russian migrated to Korea to work as entertainers while others forced into prostitution for both American soldiers and Korean civilian men.[44] Many Korean men actively seek out Russian women because they satisfy not only their desire for dominance over exotic females but also the latent psychological need to overcome their complex.[45]
     
    Blondes are "desexualized" in East Asia? Get the heck out of here. There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women - "to ride a white horse." You think that expression exists to express undesirability?

    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but “easy”, most men would be too timid to even approach one.
     
    Listen to this blonde talking about her Tinder in Korea experience and how she met her boyfriend there:
    https://youtu.be/Md_Wmo5dCSc

    Blondes are “desexualized” in East Asia? Get the heck out of here. There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women – “to ride a white horse.” You think that expression exists to express undesirability?

    You have failed to provide a single piece of evidence that blond women are not desexualized in East Asia – just a handful of random videos of KPOP fans talking on YouTube (which no one ia going to sit through) and quotes about Russian immigrants in Korea — the majority of whom are ethnic Koreans (Koryo-saram) and ex-Soviet ethnic minorities. Why don’t you find me actual videos of Korean males catcalling blond females in a club?

    3,000 mostly nonwhite “Russian” women entering South Korea (population over 50 million) yearly is a drop in the bucket and cannot result in your imaginary “sayings”. Meanwhile, the preeminent female sociologist in Sweden (Cat Lundström) has found that blond women are dessexualized in East Asia and considered unattractive. Anne-Meike Fechter has found that white women in southeast Asia are also less attractive:

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/taja.12138

    This paper illustrates how cultural logics of desire are being transformed in the context of the global economy refashioning intimate lives. Exploring the experiences of Euro‐American female professionals in Jakarta, it suggests that they become uncomfortably visible as ‘white bodies’; their desirability appears compromised, especially given Orientalist discourses which valorise Asian women’s bodies. At the same time, women’s position as well paid employees generates a contradictory logic of desire: the ‘ego boost’ they experience at work may intensify their demands on the masculinity and enlightened views of potential partners, thus rendering Indonesian men, with their perceived bodily effeminacy and ‘traditional values’ unattractive. As one response to the lack of desirability, some women engage in a moral discourse that casts Indonesian women whom they consider ‘bargirls’, as well as the Euro‐American men they attract, as morally deficient. The paper thus provides an alternative perspective on reconfigurations of desire in the context of global gendered mobility.

    White faces are perceived as too masculine by white and Chinese judges:

    https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-27165-001

    Marriages between White men and Asian women are over twice as frequent as those between White women and Asian men. Recent research has proposed that this imbalance may be explained by the finding that, on average, White men are perceived as more attractive than Asian men, and Asian women are perceived as more attractive than White women, possibly because Asian faces are perceived as more feminine than White faces. Here, we explore whether Asian faces are perceived as more feminine than White faces. Thirty-five Malaysian Chinese (20 male) and 30 Australian White (12 male) participants manipulated 100 face photographs (50 Asian; 50 White; half male) on a masculinity/femininity axis to optimize attractive appearance. As predicted, White women’s faces were increased more in femininity than Asian women’s faces, and White men’s faces were feminized more than Asian men’s faces to optimize attractiveness. These findings suggest that White faces are perceived as more masculine than Asian faces. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2018 APA, all rights reserved)

    I could go on and on and on, dropping big weights on your YouTube video collection, but why bother?
    Basically, white women will never be a *hit* in East Asia. Euro phenotypes don’t work on women there. They’re barely even working in the West right now.

    • Replies: @Bliss

    the preeminent female sociologist in Sweden (Cat Lundström) has found that blond women are dessexualized in East Asia and considered unattractive. Anne-Meike Fechter has found that white women in southeast Asia are also less attractive:
     
    True dat. East Asia is a humbling experience for blondes.
    , @Twinkie

    Russian immigrants in Korea — the majority of whom are ethnic Koreans (Koryo-saram) and ex-Soviet ethnic minorities.
     
    You really can’t read, can you? Those aren’t immigrants - they are on temporary visas to work as “entertainers,” an euphemism for prostitutes. And they aren’t ethnic Koreans. Cripes, man, go visit Korea and check out hostess bars around US bases and tell me those blue-eyed blondes are “ethnic Koreans.”

    3,000 mostly nonwhite “Russian” women entering South Korea (population over 50 million) yearly is a drop in the bucket and cannot result in your imaginary “sayings”.
     
    6,000 in 2001. And that’s just Russians. There are also Ukrainians, Czechs, and other Eastern Europeans. Even now, after their economies have recovered and South Korean police forces have tightened enforcement, there are still such women in Korea.

    Basically, white women will never be a *hit* in East Asia.
     
    That’s hilarious considering how many work as models in Seoul and Tokyo.
    https://youtu.be/vgFV1uiiznw

    https://youtu.be/Wdjb7o_5ejA
  242. @Twinkie

    Twinkie’s just in denial on how White women aren’t the pinnacle of attraction.
     
    That's not what I wrote.

    hard science
     
    Don't make me laugh. Ever hear of replication crisis? So many of you seem blissfully ignorant of what is known as "selection effect." Study results - even when they can be replicated - don't mean much for the general public if the dataset is highly selected. Citing an online dating website's data and attributing it the awesome power of "which race is the most attractive?" is the very definition of falling for the selection effect and is hardly "hard science" or science of any type. Most of you are much to keen to jump on any "study" that confirms your priors.

    The stats show that on the street White women are not the most attractive.
     
    The only thing most people seem to agree on is that black women are the least attractive. I've seen plenty of attractive Asians, Latinas, and whites. The question then becomes one of proportions. I cannot answer that question, because I've never seen any reliable data that measure the "attractiveness" of representative samples of each. The only thing I can say is from my experience, my subjective experience, of what *I* find attractive in females.

    In my view, the advantages that white women have are the varied eye and hair colors, fair skin, and height (long legs!). I actually think that A LOT more white women would be seen as attractive if 1) they were trimmer (as obesity is becoming out of control among downscale white females) and 2) they were more graceful in manner and dress, the lack of which I attribute to the degraded behavioral standards of the age.

    What East Asian women bring to the table are slimness (they are the least obese of the races), relatively high intelligence, good morals, and aging well.

    Latinas are attractive, because the best looking ones seem "exotic" and because they are probably the most traditional-feminine among the three. And paradoxically they also have a reputation of being quick to have sex. The downsides are, again, they have reputation of being quick to have sex, they tend to be increasingly obese as well, they are short (which is a deadly combination), and they tend to age very poorly. Furthermore, in the United States, most are very downscale economically and cognitively.

    The only thing most people seem to agree on is that black women are the least attractive

    Lol. Nice try at deflecting attention from the glaring consensus about the men of your race?

    And that well known stereotype is confirmed for the umpteenth time by the charts above. Much to your chagrin obviously.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Nice try at deflecting attention from the glaring consensus about the men of your race?
     
    What consensus? That a large fraction of American-born East Asian men are married to white women and that they have the highest economic and educational profile? Oh, poor them.

    And that well known stereotype is confirmed for the umpteenth time by the charts above.
     
    I agree that Asian men seem to do poorly in online/casual dating.

    But black women do poorly in online dating AND marriage. I know a black female doctor who is married to a sanitation manager. That is how bad it is for black women, esp. those with education.

    Much to your chagrin obviously.
     
    Yeah, I’m really bothered. I’m married to a chaste, highly educated woman who was a catalogue model in college, who has given me lots of gorgeous babies. Oh, woe is me.
  243. @Sam Coulton

    Blondes are “desexualized” in East Asia? Get the heck out of here. There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women – “to ride a white horse.” You think that expression exists to express undesirability?
     
    You have failed to provide a single piece of evidence that blond women are not desexualized in East Asia - just a handful of random videos of KPOP fans talking on YouTube (which no one ia going to sit through) and quotes about Russian immigrants in Korea -- the majority of whom are ethnic Koreans (Koryo-saram) and ex-Soviet ethnic minorities. Why don't you find me actual videos of Korean males catcalling blond females in a club?

    3,000 mostly nonwhite "Russian" women entering South Korea (population over 50 million) yearly is a drop in the bucket and cannot result in your imaginary "sayings". Meanwhile, the preeminent female sociologist in Sweden (Cat Lundström) has found that blond women are dessexualized in East Asia and considered unattractive. Anne-Meike Fechter has found that white women in southeast Asia are also less attractive:


    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/taja.12138


    This paper illustrates how cultural logics of desire are being transformed in the context of the global economy refashioning intimate lives. Exploring the experiences of Euro‐American female professionals in Jakarta, it suggests that they become uncomfortably visible as ‘white bodies’; their desirability appears compromised, especially given Orientalist discourses which valorise Asian women's bodies. At the same time, women's position as well paid employees generates a contradictory logic of desire: the ‘ego boost’ they experience at work may intensify their demands on the masculinity and enlightened views of potential partners, thus rendering Indonesian men, with their perceived bodily effeminacy and ‘traditional values’ unattractive. As one response to the lack of desirability, some women engage in a moral discourse that casts Indonesian women whom they consider ‘bargirls’, as well as the Euro‐American men they attract, as morally deficient. The paper thus provides an alternative perspective on reconfigurations of desire in the context of global gendered mobility.
     
    White faces are perceived as too masculine by white and Chinese judges:

    https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-27165-001


    Marriages between White men and Asian women are over twice as frequent as those between White women and Asian men. Recent research has proposed that this imbalance may be explained by the finding that, on average, White men are perceived as more attractive than Asian men, and Asian women are perceived as more attractive than White women, possibly because Asian faces are perceived as more feminine than White faces. Here, we explore whether Asian faces are perceived as more feminine than White faces. Thirty-five Malaysian Chinese (20 male) and 30 Australian White (12 male) participants manipulated 100 face photographs (50 Asian; 50 White; half male) on a masculinity/femininity axis to optimize attractive appearance. As predicted, White women’s faces were increased more in femininity than Asian women’s faces, and White men’s faces were feminized more than Asian men’s faces to optimize attractiveness. These findings suggest that White faces are perceived as more masculine than Asian faces. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2018 APA, all rights reserved)
     
    I could go on and on and on, dropping big weights on your YouTube video collection, but why bother?
    Basically, white women will never be a *hit* in East Asia. Euro phenotypes don't work on women there. They're barely even working in the West right now.

    the preeminent female sociologist in Sweden (Cat Lundström) has found that blond women are dessexualized in East Asia and considered unattractive. Anne-Meike Fechter has found that white women in southeast Asia are also less attractive:

    True dat. East Asia is a humbling experience for blondes.

  244. @Twinkie

    I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence from you that Korean men pursue white women in clubs or that blond women are mistaken for prostitutes in SK.
     
    Usually it's the middle aged men ("Ajeossi") who approach the foreign women thinking the latter are prostitutes, but this poor gal was approached by a granny! "How much?"
    https://youtu.be/t7MdwBu86fs?t=1m30s

    And why do they all ask about Russians?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea

    Russian

    Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, young Russian girls have been commonly seen in the red-light districts of Korea.[41] They can be found in the bars, strip clubs and coffee shops for entertaining the customers.[42] Between January 2000 and March 2001, approximately 6,000 Russian women entered Korea through Busan port and Gimpo. In 2000, 3,064 Russians entered South Korea on E-6 visas, 2,927 of them women (Jhoty, 2001)[43] With the collapse of the Soviet Union, thousands of Russian migrated to Korea to work as entertainers while others forced into prostitution for both American soldiers and Korean civilian men.[44] Many Korean men actively seek out Russian women because they satisfy not only their desire for dominance over exotic females but also the latent psychological need to overcome their complex.[45]
     
    Blondes are "desexualized" in East Asia? Get the heck out of here. There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women - "to ride a white horse." You think that expression exists to express undesirability?

    Blonde women are desexualized in East Asia and seen as anything but “easy”, most men would be too timid to even approach one.
     
    Listen to this blonde talking about her Tinder in Korea experience and how she met her boyfriend there:
    https://youtu.be/Md_Wmo5dCSc

    There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women – “to ride a white horse.” You think that expression exists to express undesirability?

    How is comparing a woman to an animal a compliment?

    Calling a woman horse-faced is not a compliment even in the West, how much more insulting it must be in Korea where round faces are the norm and oval faces are idealized.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    How is comparing a woman to an animal a compliment?
     
    White horse has a very positive connotation in Korean culture. It means something magnificent.

    Calling a woman horse-faced
     
    Don’t be moronic. It’s not “horse-faced.” It refers to the skin color. Why do you idiots constantly rely on straw men and twist what I wrote?
  245. @Sam Coulton

    Blondes are “desexualized” in East Asia? Get the heck out of here. There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women – “to ride a white horse.” You think that expression exists to express undesirability?
     
    You have failed to provide a single piece of evidence that blond women are not desexualized in East Asia - just a handful of random videos of KPOP fans talking on YouTube (which no one ia going to sit through) and quotes about Russian immigrants in Korea -- the majority of whom are ethnic Koreans (Koryo-saram) and ex-Soviet ethnic minorities. Why don't you find me actual videos of Korean males catcalling blond females in a club?

    3,000 mostly nonwhite "Russian" women entering South Korea (population over 50 million) yearly is a drop in the bucket and cannot result in your imaginary "sayings". Meanwhile, the preeminent female sociologist in Sweden (Cat Lundström) has found that blond women are dessexualized in East Asia and considered unattractive. Anne-Meike Fechter has found that white women in southeast Asia are also less attractive:


    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/taja.12138


    This paper illustrates how cultural logics of desire are being transformed in the context of the global economy refashioning intimate lives. Exploring the experiences of Euro‐American female professionals in Jakarta, it suggests that they become uncomfortably visible as ‘white bodies’; their desirability appears compromised, especially given Orientalist discourses which valorise Asian women's bodies. At the same time, women's position as well paid employees generates a contradictory logic of desire: the ‘ego boost’ they experience at work may intensify their demands on the masculinity and enlightened views of potential partners, thus rendering Indonesian men, with their perceived bodily effeminacy and ‘traditional values’ unattractive. As one response to the lack of desirability, some women engage in a moral discourse that casts Indonesian women whom they consider ‘bargirls’, as well as the Euro‐American men they attract, as morally deficient. The paper thus provides an alternative perspective on reconfigurations of desire in the context of global gendered mobility.
     
    White faces are perceived as too masculine by white and Chinese judges:

    https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-27165-001


    Marriages between White men and Asian women are over twice as frequent as those between White women and Asian men. Recent research has proposed that this imbalance may be explained by the finding that, on average, White men are perceived as more attractive than Asian men, and Asian women are perceived as more attractive than White women, possibly because Asian faces are perceived as more feminine than White faces. Here, we explore whether Asian faces are perceived as more feminine than White faces. Thirty-five Malaysian Chinese (20 male) and 30 Australian White (12 male) participants manipulated 100 face photographs (50 Asian; 50 White; half male) on a masculinity/femininity axis to optimize attractive appearance. As predicted, White women’s faces were increased more in femininity than Asian women’s faces, and White men’s faces were feminized more than Asian men’s faces to optimize attractiveness. These findings suggest that White faces are perceived as more masculine than Asian faces. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2018 APA, all rights reserved)
     
    I could go on and on and on, dropping big weights on your YouTube video collection, but why bother?
    Basically, white women will never be a *hit* in East Asia. Euro phenotypes don't work on women there. They're barely even working in the West right now.

    Russian immigrants in Korea — the majority of whom are ethnic Koreans (Koryo-saram) and ex-Soviet ethnic minorities.

    You really can’t read, can you? Those aren’t immigrants – they are on temporary visas to work as “entertainers,” an euphemism for prostitutes. And they aren’t ethnic Koreans. Cripes, man, go visit Korea and check out hostess bars around US bases and tell me those blue-eyed blondes are “ethnic Koreans.”

    3,000 mostly nonwhite “Russian” women entering South Korea (population over 50 million) yearly is a drop in the bucket and cannot result in your imaginary “sayings”.

    6,000 in 2001. And that’s just Russians. There are also Ukrainians, Czechs, and other Eastern Europeans. Even now, after their economies have recovered and South Korean police forces have tightened enforcement, there are still such women in Korea.

    Basically, white women will never be a *hit* in East Asia.

    That’s hilarious considering how many work as models in Seoul and Tokyo.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton
    Twinkie's coping routine:

    Step 1.) Make an hysterically false claim (i.e. "1 in 10 women in a Korean suburb are white")

    Step 2.) Back the claim up with a YouTube video of one white woman

    Step 3.) Act like you can't hear the sound of people laughing at you

    Ans yes the majority of Russian immigrants (AND tourists) in Korea are ethnic minorities/nonwhites from Russia. Your chances of seeing a Slavic Russian woman in Seoul are the same as seeing a Mexican in Scotland.

  246. @Bliss

    There is even a specific expression in Korean about having sex with white women – “to ride a white horse.” You think that expression exists to express undesirability?
     
    How is comparing a woman to an animal a compliment?

    Calling a woman horse-faced is not a compliment even in the West, how much more insulting it must be in Korea where round faces are the norm and oval faces are idealized.

    How is comparing a woman to an animal a compliment?

    White horse has a very positive connotation in Korean culture. It means something magnificent.

    Calling a woman horse-faced

    Don’t be moronic. It’s not “horse-faced.” It refers to the skin color. Why do you idiots constantly rely on straw men and twist what I wrote?

    • Replies: @Bliss

    White horse has a very positive connotation in Korean culture. It means something magnificent.
     
    Liar. To “ride a white horse” is sleazy slang for having sex with a white prostitute or a promiscuous white woman. There is nothing “magnificent” about treating a woman like a piece of meat, you low class lothario.

    White women find this phrase (baekma tada) very degrading and objectifying. I know that because I checked out some expat forums. Shame on you for defending something that white women find so offensive.
  247. @Bliss

    The only thing most people seem to agree on is that black women are the least attractive
     
    Lol. Nice try at deflecting attention from the glaring consensus about the men of your race?

    And that well known stereotype is confirmed for the umpteenth time by the charts above. Much to your chagrin obviously.

    Nice try at deflecting attention from the glaring consensus about the men of your race?

    What consensus? That a large fraction of American-born East Asian men are married to white women and that they have the highest economic and educational profile? Oh, poor them.

    And that well known stereotype is confirmed for the umpteenth time by the charts above.

    I agree that Asian men seem to do poorly in online/casual dating.

    But black women do poorly in online dating AND marriage. I know a black female doctor who is married to a sanitation manager. That is how bad it is for black women, esp. those with education.

    Much to your chagrin obviously.

    Yeah, I’m really bothered. I’m married to a chaste, highly educated woman who was a catalogue model in college, who has given me lots of gorgeous babies. Oh, woe is me.

    • Replies: @Bliss

    What consensus? That a large fraction of American-born East Asian men are married to white women
     
    You are such a shameless bullshitter. What “large fraction” are you yakking about? It is less than half the fraction of asian women who are married to white men. Explain the discrepancy. Go ahead amuse us.

    Yeah, I’m really bothered. I’m married to a chaste, highly educated woman who was a catalogue model in college, who has given me lots of gorgeous babies.
     
    Yeah right. Lol. And you are very tall, very rich, very handsome, very strong, very round-eyed etc etc. How many times have you boasted like this whenever someone writes about that famous stereotype? It is so obvious that it touches a raw nerve in you. Sad.
  248. @Johann Ricke

    Is there a chance that the ROK government will start importing DPRK women?
     
    All North Koreans are automatically South Korean citizens if they can get to a South Korean embassy. If.

    All North Koreans are automatically South Korean citizens if they can get to a South Korean embassy. If.

    Not only that, they get substantial settlement money and adjustment/job training. Yet still many fail to adapt.

    Life is largely genes + environment. Unfortunately for these North Korean defectors, their nurture side was completely messed up.

  249. @Twinkie

    How is comparing a woman to an animal a compliment?
     
    White horse has a very positive connotation in Korean culture. It means something magnificent.

    Calling a woman horse-faced
     
    Don’t be moronic. It’s not “horse-faced.” It refers to the skin color. Why do you idiots constantly rely on straw men and twist what I wrote?

    White horse has a very positive connotation in Korean culture. It means something magnificent.

    Liar. To “ride a white horse” is sleazy slang for having sex with a white prostitute or a promiscuous white woman. There is nothing “magnificent” about treating a woman like a piece of meat, you low class lothario.

    White women find this phrase (baekma tada) very degrading and objectifying. I know that because I checked out some expat forums. Shame on you for defending something that white women find so offensive.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    nothing “magnificent”
     
    You don’t seem to know that white horses are considered beautiful and magnificent in many cultures. One of the renowned South Korean unit in Vietnam was called White Horse, in turn named after a mountain.

    There is no “riding the black horse,” however.

    Shame on you for defending something that white women find so offensive.
     
    Another dumb straw man. I didn’t defend such an obsession. I merely brought up its existence to contradict the idiotic notion that East Asian men don’t fancy white women.

    I neither endorse it nor “yellow fever.” My advice is, always, for the virtuous to seek other virtuous, marry, and have and raise lots of virtuous children.

    I regret to tell you, however, that blacks fail to heed this advice, as they have the highest bastardy rate among the races in the U.S. They always have.
  250. @Rosie

    It’s a long way from ‘never’ to ‘often’.
     
    Yet the trend is unmistakable.

    What ‘trend’?

  251. @Twinkie

    Nice try at deflecting attention from the glaring consensus about the men of your race?
     
    What consensus? That a large fraction of American-born East Asian men are married to white women and that they have the highest economic and educational profile? Oh, poor them.

    And that well known stereotype is confirmed for the umpteenth time by the charts above.
     
    I agree that Asian men seem to do poorly in online/casual dating.

    But black women do poorly in online dating AND marriage. I know a black female doctor who is married to a sanitation manager. That is how bad it is for black women, esp. those with education.

    Much to your chagrin obviously.
     
    Yeah, I’m really bothered. I’m married to a chaste, highly educated woman who was a catalogue model in college, who has given me lots of gorgeous babies. Oh, woe is me.

    What consensus? That a large fraction of American-born East Asian men are married to white women

    You are such a shameless bullshitter. What “large fraction” are you yakking about? It is less than half the fraction of asian women who are married to white men. Explain the discrepancy. Go ahead amuse us.

    Yeah, I’m really bothered. I’m married to a chaste, highly educated woman who was a catalogue model in college, who has given me lots of gorgeous babies.

    Yeah right. Lol. And you are very tall, very rich, very handsome, very strong, very round-eyed etc etc. How many times have you boasted like this whenever someone writes about that famous stereotype? It is so obvious that it touches a raw nerve in you. Sad.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    What “large fraction” are you yakking about? It is less than half the fraction of asian women who are married to white men. Explain the discrepancy. Go ahead amuse us.
     
    It helps to read the very first comment I made here:

    http://www.unz.com/anepigone/the-40-year-old-incel/#comment-3280557

    38-46% is a pretty big fraction, I’d say. Majorities of those percentages are with white females. And that’s including non-East Asian Asian men (e.g. Indians) who have low rates of intermarriage.


    And you are very tall, very rich, very handsome, very strong, very round-eyed
     
    Not very tall. Just tallish at 6’2”. Handsome I’ve been told (by a bunch of black women as well, including my wife’s secretary the first time we met). Very rich? No. But I don’t have to work ever again. I’d describe myself as comfortably affluent. AE can tell I live in a “super zip” area. I am pretty strong from doing Judo for 40 years. I would not describe myself as “round-eyed” though I have been described as “big eyed” - I have “double eyelids” as did my father (my mother did not). It occurs to about 15-50% of people in East Asia (rates vary by region).

    Are you done with the low IQ ad hominem?

  252. @Bliss

    White horse has a very positive connotation in Korean culture. It means something magnificent.
     
    Liar. To “ride a white horse” is sleazy slang for having sex with a white prostitute or a promiscuous white woman. There is nothing “magnificent” about treating a woman like a piece of meat, you low class lothario.

    White women find this phrase (baekma tada) very degrading and objectifying. I know that because I checked out some expat forums. Shame on you for defending something that white women find so offensive.

    nothing “magnificent”

    You don’t seem to know that white horses are considered beautiful and magnificent in many cultures. One of the renowned South Korean unit in Vietnam was called White Horse, in turn named after a mountain.

    There is no “riding the black horse,” however.

    Shame on you for defending something that white women find so offensive.

    Another dumb straw man. I didn’t defend such an obsession. I merely brought up its existence to contradict the idiotic notion that East Asian men don’t fancy white women.

    I neither endorse it nor “yellow fever.” My advice is, always, for the virtuous to seek other virtuous, marry, and have and raise lots of virtuous children.

    I regret to tell you, however, that blacks fail to heed this advice, as they have the highest bastardy rate among the races in the U.S. They always have.

    • Replies: @Sam Coulton

    Another dumb straw man. I didn’t defend such an obsession. I merely brought up its existence to contradict the idiotic notion that East Asian men don’t fancy white women.
     
    It doesn't exist except as a figment of your imagination, as you desperately seek to prove to the world and the Unz community that you did not marry a 5'9" "woman" who would be mistaken for a crossdressing man in your home country.
  253. @Bliss

    What consensus? That a large fraction of American-born East Asian men are married to white women
     
    You are such a shameless bullshitter. What “large fraction” are you yakking about? It is less than half the fraction of asian women who are married to white men. Explain the discrepancy. Go ahead amuse us.

    Yeah, I’m really bothered. I’m married to a chaste, highly educated woman who was a catalogue model in college, who has given me lots of gorgeous babies.
     
    Yeah right. Lol. And you are very tall, very rich, very handsome, very strong, very round-eyed etc etc. How many times have you boasted like this whenever someone writes about that famous stereotype? It is so obvious that it touches a raw nerve in you. Sad.

    What “large fraction” are you yakking about? It is less than half the fraction of asian women who are married to white men. Explain the discrepancy. Go ahead amuse us.

    It helps to read the very first comment I made here:

    http://www.unz.com/anepigone/the-40-year-old-incel/#comment-3280557

    38-46% is a pretty big fraction, I’d say. Majorities of those percentages are with white females. And that’s including non-East Asian Asian men (e.g. Indians) who have low rates of intermarriage.

    And you are very tall, very rich, very handsome, very strong, very round-eyed

    Not very tall. Just tallish at 6’2”. Handsome I’ve been told (by a bunch of black women as well, including my wife’s secretary the first time we met). Very rich? No. But I don’t have to work ever again. I’d describe myself as comfortably affluent. AE can tell I live in a “super zip” area. I am pretty strong from doing Judo for 40 years. I would not describe myself as “round-eyed” though I have been described as “big eyed” – I have “double eyelids” as did my father (my mother did not). It occurs to about 15-50% of people in East Asia (rates vary by region).

    Are you done with the low IQ ad hominem?

    • Replies: @Bliss

    38-46% is a pretty big fraction, I’d say. Majorities of those percentages are with white females. And that’s including non-East Asian Asian men (e.g. Indians) who have low rates of intermarriage.
     
    You must have pulled that number out of your ass. The chart above calls you a liar. A very brazen liar:

    https://i.imgur.com/9cqeEFV.jpg
  254. Another dumb straw man. I didn’t defend such an obsession.

    Calling it “magnificent” and “very positive” is not defending it? GTFO…

    My advice is, always, for the virtuous to seek other virtuous

    There is nothing virtuous about you at all. Everything about you reeks of greed, hate, racism, deceit, violence, vanity etc.

  255. @Twinkie

    What “large fraction” are you yakking about? It is less than half the fraction of asian women who are married to white men. Explain the discrepancy. Go ahead amuse us.
     
    It helps to read the very first comment I made here:

    http://www.unz.com/anepigone/the-40-year-old-incel/#comment-3280557

    38-46% is a pretty big fraction, I’d say. Majorities of those percentages are with white females. And that’s including non-East Asian Asian men (e.g. Indians) who have low rates of intermarriage.


    And you are very tall, very rich, very handsome, very strong, very round-eyed
     
    Not very tall. Just tallish at 6’2”. Handsome I’ve been told (by a bunch of black women as well, including my wife’s secretary the first time we met). Very rich? No. But I don’t have to work ever again. I’d describe myself as comfortably affluent. AE can tell I live in a “super zip” area. I am pretty strong from doing Judo for 40 years. I would not describe myself as “round-eyed” though I have been described as “big eyed” - I have “double eyelids” as did my father (my mother did not). It occurs to about 15-50% of people in East Asia (rates vary by region).

    Are you done with the low IQ ad hominem?

    38-46% is a pretty big fraction, I’d say. Majorities of those percentages are with white females. And that’s including non-East Asian Asian men (e.g. Indians) who have low rates of intermarriage.

    You must have pulled that number out of your ass. The chart above calls you a liar. A very brazen liar:

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    Among Asian newlyweds, these gender differences exist for both immigrants (15% men, 31% women) and the U.S. born (38% men, 54% women). While the gender gap among Asian immigrants has remained relatively stable, the gap among the U.S. born has widened substantially since 1980, when intermarriage stood at 46% among newlywed Asian men and 49% among newlywed Asian women.
     
  256. @Twinkie

    Russian immigrants in Korea — the majority of whom are ethnic Koreans (Koryo-saram) and ex-Soviet ethnic minorities.
     
    You really can’t read, can you? Those aren’t immigrants - they are on temporary visas to work as “entertainers,” an euphemism for prostitutes. And they aren’t ethnic Koreans. Cripes, man, go visit Korea and check out hostess bars around US bases and tell me those blue-eyed blondes are “ethnic Koreans.”

    3,000 mostly nonwhite “Russian” women entering South Korea (population over 50 million) yearly is a drop in the bucket and cannot result in your imaginary “sayings”.
     
    6,000 in 2001. And that’s just Russians. There are also Ukrainians, Czechs, and other Eastern Europeans. Even now, after their economies have recovered and South Korean police forces have tightened enforcement, there are still such women in Korea.

    Basically, white women will never be a *hit* in East Asia.
     
    That’s hilarious considering how many work as models in Seoul and Tokyo.
    https://youtu.be/vgFV1uiiznw

    https://youtu.be/Wdjb7o_5ejA

    Twinkie’s coping routine:

    Step 1.) Make an hysterically false claim (i.e. “1 in 10 women in a Korean suburb are white”)

    Step 2.) Back the claim up with a YouTube video of one white woman

    Step 3.) Act like you can’t hear the sound of people laughing at you

    Ans yes the majority of Russian immigrants (AND tourists) in Korea are ethnic minorities/nonwhites from Russia. Your chances of seeing a Slavic Russian woman in Seoul are the same as seeing a Mexican in Scotland.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Your chances of seeing a Slavic Russian woman in Seoul are the same as seeing a Mexican in Scotland.
     
    https://youtu.be/n-QCzbb-Peg

    https://youtu.be/CkaReSwOK7Q

    https://youtu.be/fFenn0vh89k

    https://youtu.be/DqNJtlqKR8I

    I can give you dozens and dozens of video footages of Russians in Korea. Can you find me a few of Mexicans in Scotland? I found ONE in YouTube.
  257. @Rosie

    demure, downcast eyes as the default
     
    Why anyone would expect this from White women is beyond me. We are our father's daughters, after all.

    “Why anyone would expect this from White women is beyond me. “

    I don’t expect it. Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m just sorry it’s long gone, and it was nice to experience it again.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    I think we're all beyond "expecting" things from white women at this point (at least in a positive sense).
  258. @Twinkie

    nothing “magnificent”
     
    You don’t seem to know that white horses are considered beautiful and magnificent in many cultures. One of the renowned South Korean unit in Vietnam was called White Horse, in turn named after a mountain.

    There is no “riding the black horse,” however.

    Shame on you for defending something that white women find so offensive.
     
    Another dumb straw man. I didn’t defend such an obsession. I merely brought up its existence to contradict the idiotic notion that East Asian men don’t fancy white women.

    I neither endorse it nor “yellow fever.” My advice is, always, for the virtuous to seek other virtuous, marry, and have and raise lots of virtuous children.

    I regret to tell you, however, that blacks fail to heed this advice, as they have the highest bastardy rate among the races in the U.S. They always have.

    Another dumb straw man. I didn’t defend such an obsession. I merely brought up its existence to contradict the idiotic notion that East Asian men don’t fancy white women.

    It doesn’t exist except as a figment of your imagination, as you desperately seek to prove to the world and the Unz community that you did not marry a 5’9″ “woman” who would be mistaken for a crossdressing man in your home country.

    • Troll: Twinkie
  259. @Twinkie

    Being about two SDs above the mean seems to be optimal in the dating market for traits like height and intelligence. Being even further above the mean than that can be harmful for dating prospects. All other traits being equal, a man who is 6’3 with an IQ of 130 is tops.
     
    Yes, I'm pretty lucky with height - I didn't do a darn thing for it, I just inherited that from my short parents (whose height were depressed due to malnutrition and protein deprivation in their youths). My wife thinks that I am the perfect height - tallish, but not freakishly or ungainly tall.

    My IQ is considerably above 130 (my parents had me tested when I was young, because they were a bit worried about how precocious I was), and it's true that average women and I didn't mesh well. My wife told me, in her very typically complimentary fashion, that I intimidated them. And frankly I found most women unintelligent. I solved that problem by going to selective universities and hanging out among women with closer (if not quite equal)* cognitive profiles. Of the two other women I dated before my wife, one is now a diplomat for her country and the other is a physician renowned in her field.

    *My wife has a STEM doctorate and I but a Ph.D. in history, but she readily admits that I am much smarter than she is (I used to write her papers for her in college and helped her with her graduate work too, though she can probably do regression analyses much better than I can these days and she is much less of a Luddite than I am - she has an Apple Watch while I still wear a mechanical watch and use old phones).

    My IQ is considerably above 130

    If this is accurate then I’m adding 15-20 points to my estimate of my IQ.

    • LOL: Talha, AaronB
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    If this is accurate then I’m adding 15-20 points to my estimate of my IQ.
     
    In all seriousness, take a legitimate test and find out. Something like Raven’s Matrices.
  260. @Twinkie

    Since marriage now primarily takes place among the wealthier and more educated, you can’t take who marries who as representative of the general population.
     
    It's hard to say which is more representative of the general population - marriage numbers and percentages or online dating data. I am not a betting man, but if I were to wager, it'd be the marriage numbers, primarily because it reflects long-term partnership selection and requires much more effort and genuine intent. Meanwhile online dating, though growing in popularity, is still highly selected segment of the population, and it is very "low effort," to boot. Most people still find their partners in schools, churches, workplaces or through their family-social network.

    I was under the impression that online dating would be representative of the general population and that it would show black men to be more popular than Asian men with white females since that was what I personally observed in everyday life. Rosie produced information, though, that definitely shows that black men are least popular online with white females. My immediate reaction was that either my personal observations aren’t representative or online dating results aren’t representative. I think it’s a little of both. I checked online dating statistics and it shows the typical online dater has a college degree which is not representative of the general population. On the other hand, I know a lot of working class whites so my observations aren’t representative either. I think you would find as you go up the education scale larger numbers of white female-black male couples near the bottom and more white female-Asian male couples among people with higher educational levels near the top.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I think you would find as you go up the education scale larger numbers of white female-black male couples near the bottom and more white female-Asian male couples among people with higher educational levels near the top.
     
    Yes. It’s assortative.
  261. @YetAnotherAnon
    "Why anyone would expect this from White women is beyond me. "

    I don't expect it. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm just sorry it's long gone, and it was nice to experience it again.

    I think we’re all beyond “expecting” things from white women at this point (at least in a positive sense).

  262. @Audacious Epigone
    Wow, that's staggering. Thanks.

    Yes, a strange experiment is being conducted in South Korea: the western model of population replacement has been transplanted to East Asia. There are a few differences:

    • The fertility rate is lower: only 0.98 children per woman. As a result, the children of immigrant mothers are already a substantial proportion of the school population.

    • Chinese are the largest group of immigrants, but their demographic impact is less than that of southeast Asian immigrants. There are also growing numbers of South Asians, West Asians, and Africans.

    • South Korea is next to a country that is very unhappy with this demographic transformation. A strange role reversal is taking place: the south is becoming the land of radical social change, while the north increasingly represents traditional Korea.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Perhaps not coincidentally, “globalization” (세계화) became a state ideology in South Korea a couple of decades ago...
    , @Feryl
    Isn't that more proof that economic Leftism is more culturally conservative? Succumb to "free market" worship, and cultural decadence is sure to follow.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    That 0.98 is among ethnic Koreans in South Korea, then? Or is the CIA factbook number dated? It puts the figure at 1.27, but that looks like it would be pretty close if the non-Korean TFR is substantially higher.
  263. @Anonymous
    I've been clubbing in Seoul, including the nicest parts for nightlife there like Gangnam and that hipsterish area around a university, and in Japan and China. White women, let alone attractive ones, are very rare in Seoul's nightlife and much less common than in Japan or China. The ones that are there are largely ignored. Part of this might be due to the fact that the people there are much less casual and more hesitant about approaching strangers in clubs and bars. They usually go with people they know, and tend to go to special "booking" nightclubs which are like matchmaking clubs to meet strangers.

    I have to agree here.

    Twinkie, I admire your quasi-Korean advocacy (when you’re not advocating for “old stock” Caucasoids, anyway), but I worked there for a short time 20 years ago, and unless things have changed dramatically, the thought of Korean men swarming a white woman in a club with game and pickup lines literally made me LOL for a second.

    Back when I was there, a Korean club was tables of men drinking across the room from tables of women drinking, and after a few hours one gets drunk enough to shyly shuffle over and ask for a dance. Even in Koreatown, LA, the JKorean girls generally have to go to 외국인 to get some attention. I worked for a company that marketed a Korean product in California and the slutty upper middle-class white girls who traveled with us had to come to the American guys to get laid; and amongst that cohort, getting laid whenever they travel is almost a necessity.

    But hey, two decades is a long time, and your people are quite gifted at mimicry…

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    20 years ago, and unless things have changed dramatically
     
    They have. Shockingly so.
  264. @Truth
    I have to agree here.

    Twinkie, I admire your quasi-Korean advocacy (when you're not advocating for "old stock" Caucasoids, anyway), but I worked there for a short time 20 years ago, and unless things have changed dramatically, the thought of Korean men swarming a white woman in a club with game and pickup lines literally made me LOL for a second.

    Back when I was there, a Korean club was tables of men drinking across the room from tables of women drinking, and after a few hours one gets drunk enough to shyly shuffle over and ask for a dance. Even in Koreatown, LA, the JKorean girls generally have to go to 외국인 to get some attention. I worked for a company that marketed a Korean product in California and the slutty upper middle-class white girls who traveled with us had to come to the American guys to get laid; and amongst that cohort, getting laid whenever they travel is almost a necessity.

    But hey, two decades is a long time, and your people are quite gifted at mimicry...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzMcIo68qI

    20 years ago, and unless things have changed dramatically

    They have. Shockingly so.

  265. @Sam Coulton
    Twinkie's coping routine:

    Step 1.) Make an hysterically false claim (i.e. "1 in 10 women in a Korean suburb are white")

    Step 2.) Back the claim up with a YouTube video of one white woman

    Step 3.) Act like you can't hear the sound of people laughing at you

    Ans yes the majority of Russian immigrants (AND tourists) in Korea are ethnic minorities/nonwhites from Russia. Your chances of seeing a Slavic Russian woman in Seoul are the same as seeing a Mexican in Scotland.

    Your chances of seeing a Slavic Russian woman in Seoul are the same as seeing a Mexican in Scotland.

    https://youtu.be/n-QCzbb-Peg

    I can give you dozens and dozens of video footages of Russians in Korea. Can you find me a few of Mexicans in Scotland? I found ONE in YouTube.

  266. @iffen
    My IQ is considerably above 130

    If this is accurate then I'm adding 15-20 points to my estimate of my IQ.

    If this is accurate then I’m adding 15-20 points to my estimate of my IQ.

    In all seriousness, take a legitimate test and find out. Something like Raven’s Matrices.

    • Replies: @iffen
    take a legitimate test and find out

    Actual difference between us. I don't care what it is. I'm 69 and I know that the decline has begun. I have a rough idea of what it was based on the ACT scores that I received in 1966.
  267. @Bliss

    38-46% is a pretty big fraction, I’d say. Majorities of those percentages are with white females. And that’s including non-East Asian Asian men (e.g. Indians) who have low rates of intermarriage.
     
    You must have pulled that number out of your ass. The chart above calls you a liar. A very brazen liar:

    https://i.imgur.com/9cqeEFV.jpg

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    Among Asian newlyweds, these gender differences exist for both immigrants (15% men, 31% women) and the U.S. born (38% men, 54% women). While the gender gap among Asian immigrants has remained relatively stable, the gap among the U.S. born has widened substantially since 1980, when intermarriage stood at 46% among newlywed Asian men and 49% among newlywed Asian women.

    • Replies: @Bliss
    Firstly, quoting numbers from 1980 is useless for the number of native born asian-americans then was a tiny fraction of what it is today. Secondly, even in 2017 the percentage of newly wed asian americans who were born in America was only a quarter of the total. Thirdly, the trend is steadily downwards:

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/pst_2017-05-15-intermarriage-01-11/

    The point remains: East and Southeast Asians are the only race (probably true for amerindians as well, but they too are originally from East Asia) wherein the women marry out at a significantly higher rate than the men.

    Then there is this:

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/inceldemos.png
    , @Bliss
    Numbers from 1980 are useless. How many american born asians were there then? Since then the trend is steadily downwards:

    https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/pst_2017-05-15-intermarriage-01-11/

    Then there is this:

    http://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/inceldemos.png



    The point remains: east asians are the only race whose women marry out at significantly higher rates than the men. What’s your explanation?
  268. @Mark G.
    I was under the impression that online dating would be representative of the general population and that it would show black men to be more popular than Asian men with white females since that was what I personally observed in everyday life. Rosie produced information, though, that definitely shows that black men are least popular online with white females. My immediate reaction was that either my personal observations aren't representative or online dating results aren't representative. I think it's a little of both. I checked online dating statistics and it shows the typical online dater has a college degree which is not representative of the general population. On the other hand, I know a lot of working class whites so my observations aren't representative either. I think you would find as you go up the education scale larger numbers of white female-black male couples near the bottom and more white female-Asian male couples among people with higher educational levels near the top.

    I think you would find as you go up the education scale larger numbers of white female-black male couples near the bottom and more white female-Asian male couples among people with higher educational levels near the top.

    Yes. It’s assortative.

  269. @Peter Frost
    Yes, a strange experiment is being conducted in South Korea: the western model of population replacement has been transplanted to East Asia. There are a few differences:

    • The fertility rate is lower: only 0.98 children per woman. As a result, the children of immigrant mothers are already a substantial proportion of the school population.

    • Chinese are the largest group of immigrants, but their demographic impact is less than that of southeast Asian immigrants. There are also growing numbers of South Asians, West Asians, and Africans.

    • South Korea is next to a country that is very unhappy with this demographic transformation. A strange role reversal is taking place: the south is becoming the land of radical social change, while the north increasingly represents traditional Korea.

    Perhaps not coincidentally, “globalization” (세계화) became a state ideology in South Korea a couple of decades ago…

  270. @Twinkie

    Personally, I think that some NW European people look fairly homely
     
    See my response to another commenter above for my take on the advantages vs. disadvantages of women of different races.

    American whites and Scandinavians to some extent seem more attractive.
     
    Ordinary Scandinavians are rather plump-looking. There is a SEVERE overrating of Scandinavian women in the media. Also, it's hard to find Scandinavian women who stay trim (if at all to begin with) as they age. The first time I visited Sweden was a HUGE letdown.

    People don't realize how attractive American women are compared to much of the rest of the world. Some of that is not genetic. High living standards, excellent dental and beauty/skin care, and good medical care all contribute to people looking healthy and fit (which significantly affect how attractive they look). It's for the same reasons that Korean women (in Korea) now look much more attractive than their mothers (even accounting for plastic surgery).

    The number one problem for American women is the obesity epidemic (that and the fact that they dress very poorly). Nothing repels men like women developing a tube around the waist, because it kills that golden 0.7 waist-to-hip ratio that is indicative of good health and high fertility.

    WRT Scandinavia, I was saying that they are slightly more attractive than Germans and esp. Brits. Phenotype is heavily genetic, and I would say that American whites benefit from being a cross between several different Euro phenotypes.

    the advantages that white women have are the varied eye and hair colors,

    I don’t find fake blonde hair to be attractive, and most white women have naturally black or brown hair (natural blonde hair is quite a bit more common in males). Most modern white women also have artificially straight hair, which again I don’t find appealing (if you look at white guys with long hair you’ll get a better idea of how many white people have naturally wavy and curly hair).

  271. @Peter Frost
    Yes, a strange experiment is being conducted in South Korea: the western model of population replacement has been transplanted to East Asia. There are a few differences:

    • The fertility rate is lower: only 0.98 children per woman. As a result, the children of immigrant mothers are already a substantial proportion of the school population.

    • Chinese are the largest group of immigrants, but their demographic impact is less than that of southeast Asian immigrants. There are also growing numbers of South Asians, West Asians, and Africans.

    • South Korea is next to a country that is very unhappy with this demographic transformation. A strange role reversal is taking place: the south is becoming the land of radical social change, while the north increasingly represents traditional Korea.

    Isn’t that more proof that economic Leftism is more culturally conservative? Succumb to “free market” worship, and cultural decadence is sure to follow.

  272. @Twinkie

    Twinkie’s just in denial on how White women aren’t the pinnacle of attraction.
     
    That's not what I wrote.

    hard science
     
    Don't make me laugh. Ever hear of replication crisis? So many of you seem blissfully ignorant of what is known as "selection effect." Study results - even when they can be replicated - don't mean much for the general public if the dataset is highly selected. Citing an online dating website's data and attributing it the awesome power of "which race is the most attractive?" is the very definition of falling for the selection effect and is hardly "hard science" or science of any type. Most of you are much to keen to jump on any "study" that confirms your priors.

    The stats show that on the street White women are not the most attractive.
     
    The only thing most people seem to agree on is that black women are the least attractive. I've seen plenty of attractive Asians, Latinas, and whites. The question then becomes one of proportions. I cannot answer that question, because I've never seen any reliable data that measure the "attractiveness" of representative samples of each. The only thing I can say is from my experience, my subjective experience, of what *I* find attractive in females.

    In my view, the advantages that white women have are the varied eye and hair colors, fair skin, and height (long legs!). I actually think that A LOT more white women would be seen as attractive if 1) they were trimmer (as obesity is becoming out of control among downscale white females) and 2) they were more graceful in manner and dress, the lack of which I attribute to the degraded behavioral standards of the age.

    What East Asian women bring to the table are slimness (they are the least obese of the races), relatively high intelligence, good morals, and aging well.

    Latinas are attractive, because the best looking ones seem "exotic" and because they are probably the most traditional-feminine among the three. And paradoxically they also have a reputation of being quick to have sex. The downsides are, again, they have reputation of being quick to have sex, they tend to be increasingly obese as well, they are short (which is a deadly combination), and they tend to age very poorly. Furthermore, in the United States, most are very downscale economically and cognitively.

    I don’t remember where I first heard this, but from what I understand light-skinned people develop shallow wrinkles in their 20’s, but don’t develop deep wrinkles until well into middle age. Whereas olive/brown/black skinned people don’t develop many wrinkles at all in early adulthood, but once they get into their late 30’s the aging freight train can run them over.