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Imagine if instead of platitudes about who we are and blather about impeachment, some genuinely interesting culture war questions were asked of the Democrat candidates at the debate tonight.

“Senator Warren, what do you say to fathers out there who are uncomfortable with the idea of a male-to-female transgendered person sitting in the stall next to their school age daughters as those daughters use the restroom?”

“Vice President Biden, what do you tell a nine year-old boy who thinks he should undergo gender reassignment surgery? Should people take pride in and accept who they are or should they undergo medical interventions to turn themselves into something they’re not–at least not yet?”

Using data from YouGov, the following graph shows the percentages, by sex and partisan affiliation, who consider transgendered people to be their biological gender. The “prefer not to say” responses (constituting 12% of the total) are not included, so the residuals represent the percentages who consider transgendered people to be their elected gender. The pink bars are for female-to-male transitions and the blue bars are for male-to-female transitions (betraying the author’s bias):

Keeping gender transition terminology straight isn’t easy. The pink bar above “Men” shows that 44% of men consider women who identify as men to still be women. The blue bar above “Men” shows that 64% of men consider men who identify as women to still be men, etc.

Men are considerably more willing to grant maleness to women who identify as men than they are to grant femaleness to men who identify as women:

This difference must be to some extent accounted for by an instinctive desire among men to protect wives and daughters from aggressive faux sheilas:

Most women–to the detriment of the future prospects of women’s sports leagues–are comfortable granting womanhood to biological males. If Fallon Fox doesn’t ring a bell as to why, watch Ladybugs.

Because the graphs are hard enough to wrap one’s head around, results by race aren’t shown. The differences are modest, with virtually no difference between whites, blacks, and others (Asians). Hispanics are more likely to consider people to be their biological rather than their elected gender.

Given that non-whites tend to be Democrat and that they are on the whole modestly more likely than whites to consider gender based on biology rather than on preference, we can deduce that white Democrats are way more progressive on the gender issue than white non-Democrats and non-white Democrats are. The Great Awokening in action again.

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Gender, Polling, Sex 
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  1. A majority of women consider transvestites to have actually changed their sex? The indoctrination has been that fast and complete? Amazing. If people can be taught to reject what they’ve known all their lives with just a couple years of media blitz… imagine what they can convince people of with the next push!

    The poison has gotten so very deep into our veins now. I don’t think there’s any saving this… the sane minority need to start thinking about what’s next and how to best prepare for it.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    Don't despair. It's only a poll, after all.
  2. I would like to have this questionnaire tried by sampling the Jewish population.

  3. If Fallon Fox doesn’t ring a bell

    The sad thing about Fallon Fox is that he beat up a few amateur women and then was knocked out by Ashlee Evans-Smith, a journeywoman fighter (she has a few good wins on her record, but is not exactly a roided up power-puncher like “Cyborg”).

    It’s really messed up that we’ve come to the point in our society where we let mentally-ill men beat up women in combat sports. In combat sports! Where there are punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, throws, chokes, and joint-locks!

    It’s insanity.

    • Replies: @Ghak
    If you were to do your own afteraction report, why did your side get Bagrationed in the culture war so badly? It actually makes Gamelin look like the second coming of Caesar.
    , @ScottC

    It’s really messed up that we’ve come to the point in our society where we let mentally-ill men beat up women in combat sports. In combat sports! Where there are punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, throws, chokes, and joint-locks!
     
    Why are women participating in combat sports in the first place? How does punching and kicking another woman promote fertility and motherhood?
    , @Bill
    It's really messed up that there exist female combat sports.
  4. The culture war is over. They won. Inviting debate that involves dissecting the corpse of badwhite American kkkulture puts them at risk of finding a hatefact bullet.

    After all, the body is not yet cold in this current year. So they must resort to the short list of narrative twitter feed fodder. Orange man bad, Ukraine, white man bad, etc.

    It is fascinating to watch, however, how they struggle to cull rhetorical daggers from the ether of their shared delusions that can pierce their opponents facade but not so much that it reveals that pesky reality – or the same color of their own petulant petticoats.

    Luckily, the death cult of leftism has suicidal dna: the holiness spiral.

    The megaphone for the left aka the media has learned that when accelerating toward the event horizon of leftist utopia, the holiness spiraling must be moderated. Clown cars and sharp objects kinda thing.

    Which is why the culture war issues are carefully curated. And why they were largely avoided this time round. This debate was a theatrical production to keep impeachment narrative alive. The field will be sorted off stage.

    The ‘social’ issues are more effective when sheathed safely in the knife drawer where the candidates can just open the drawer and point from a safe distance.

    See their twitter responses’ eg “no questions about LGBT or Climate crisis!!” etc. that way the fake debate can go on without the entropy of holiness spiraling causing too many honkey honk moments.

    As for the chix with dix survey, I think it is an interesting metric that might one day illustrate the fact that it is a lot harder to require people to disbelieve what they can plainly see than it is to encourage people to believe in something they cannot see.

    This is why the prog death cult will lose. But also why we need a religion that at the very least relies on the latter by way of generative faith – and guards against the former, as the degenerative nihilism of the prog death cult does tend to creep in.

    2+2=5 will kill a lot of people. Anyone with a passing interest in human history before the saint Obama era knows this. The only variables are time and magnitude.

    So in a way time is on our side (leftsim is suicidal) but also against us (demographics is destiny).

    I never thought I would miss the ‘80’s so much. Fitting that charlie sheen’s first film, Red Dawn, had him killing commie invaders with all-american chad zeal and then fast forward to him IRL banging tranny hookers and shooting H until he got pozzed.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    I recently watched the famous "Morning in America" Reagan campaign ad. It's from a different galaxy.
  5. @Twinkie

    If Fallon Fox doesn’t ring a bell
     
    The sad thing about Fallon Fox is that he beat up a few amateur women and then was knocked out by Ashlee Evans-Smith, a journeywoman fighter (she has a few good wins on her record, but is not exactly a roided up power-puncher like "Cyborg").

    It's really messed up that we've come to the point in our society where we let mentally-ill men beat up women in combat sports. In combat sports! Where there are punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, throws, chokes, and joint-locks!

    It's insanity.

    If you were to do your own afteraction report, why did your side get Bagrationed in the culture war so badly? It actually makes Gamelin look like the second coming of Caesar.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    As pithily as possible--affluence.

    1) Human desires are infinite
    2) Resources are limited

    If these two fundamental truths are not recognized and reckoned with, lunacy ensues.

    The Western world is carrying on as though 2) is not a hard reality. But it is. And when we're no longer able to pretend it is not, that's when the lunacy will get checked hard.
    , @Twinkie
    How much time do you have?
  6. This difference must be to some extent accounted for by an instinctive desire among men to protect wives and daughters from faux sheilas

    It’s the other way around. Men are more accepting of women with a masculine presentation because they no longer have control over their daughters. They think that kind, submissive, traditionally feminine women are easy prey for canny men. A ftm tranny won’t have to deal with predators.

    Conservative men are fond of uploading photos of lady soldiers with machine guns to Facebook, annoucing that their daughters got promoted in the marine corps, won a trophy for playing soccer, got a job at a law firm, or how they excelled at some other masculine activity and despite all of this insist that their daugbters are “not feminists” because they are “strong-willed” and “brave.” Conservative men encourage their daughters to act like boys, even if they don’t go the extra step of attaching prosthetics to their vaginas and calling them men. They do not enforce the feminine role that God and nature have designed for women. So why would they care that men are passing themselves off as women, when for the last 20-30 years they’ve been passing their daughters off as men-lite?

    The reason conservative men don’t extend the same level of tolerance to mtf trannies as they do to ftm trannies (including their daughters) is because mtf trannies have rejected their masculinity. It’s not “instinctive” to protect women from a danger that didn’t exist in human prehistory (how would a man pass himself off as a woman in 50000BC? just by growing his hair long?). These mtf athletes are not playing sports to prey on women anyway. They’re playing against women because it lowers the bar for advancement. But why should conservatives care? What is the point of preserving women’s sports? Playing sports doesn’t help women increase their fertility and develop the nurturing skills to raise children. Conservatives are effectively white knighting for women play-acting as boys against men play-acting as girls.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    they are “strong-willed” and “brave.”
     
    Feminine and strong-willed are not incompatible. Do you think the female settlers in the American West were wilting flowers? Tough women make tough sons. “E tan e epi tas” was uttered by a mother.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    (how would a man pass himself off as a woman in 50000BC? just by growing his hair long?)

    Ask Clodious Pulcher!
  7. Men are considerably more willing to grant maleness to women who identify as men than they are to grant femaleness to men who identify as women:

    But it’s also true for the reverse. It looks like the sexes don’t like/can’t relate to people transitioning from their own sex to something else.

    This difference must be to some extent accounted for by an instinctive desire among men to protect wives and daughters from aggressive faux sheilas:

    Sure. It’s probably not the main cause.

    Given that non-whites tend to be Democrat, that they are on the whole modestly more likely than whites to consider based on biology rather than on fancy, we can deduce that white Democrats are way more progressive on the gender issue than white non-Democrats and non-white Democrats are. The Great Awokening strikes again.

    It’s abundantly clear that “woke” white people are leading cause of the absurdity of the current era. I don’t understand why people on this site treat them as lost sheep rather than the primary enemy.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Bill

    I don’t understand why people on this site treat them as lost sheep rather than the primary enemy.
     
    If you think of them as the enemy, then you might start wanting to fight them. That has gone badly for the good guys now for several centuries, with only a few happy exceptions.
  8. @Twinkie

    If Fallon Fox doesn’t ring a bell
     
    The sad thing about Fallon Fox is that he beat up a few amateur women and then was knocked out by Ashlee Evans-Smith, a journeywoman fighter (she has a few good wins on her record, but is not exactly a roided up power-puncher like "Cyborg").

    It's really messed up that we've come to the point in our society where we let mentally-ill men beat up women in combat sports. In combat sports! Where there are punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, throws, chokes, and joint-locks!

    It's insanity.

    It’s really messed up that we’ve come to the point in our society where we let mentally-ill men beat up women in combat sports. In combat sports! Where there are punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, throws, chokes, and joint-locks!

    Why are women participating in combat sports in the first place? How does punching and kicking another woman promote fertility and motherhood?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    I’m not a big fan of striking sports for women, but grappling sports can be great for them.

    https://youtu.be/sAkjl9oB6Zo

    Daria Bilodid, two-time world champion and the youngest ever to win worlds.
    , @Anonymousse
    Since we’ve left behind a world where our daughters have to confront situations like this one...

    https://youtu.be/9_s2ulYZU1s

    The least we can do is leave them capable to handle situation like this one...
  9. If this schizoid crap is the result of the “religion vacuum” being filled up by trannies “having female penises” (as well as the Neolithic rituals to appease the weather, and not to forget the founding myth of the Holy Holocaust), then perhaps there really should be some work on fashioning a competitor quasi-religious system.

    It obviously needs to include:
    1)”holy transformation” market which the trannies have cornered,
    2) some pagan dances to appease visible aspects of “Mother Universe”, and
    3) a sacrificial/cataclysm founding myth to compete with the Chosen Tribe’s narratives

    If there’s a way to make a “posthuman cyborg future” non-GloboHomo, for a hostile takeover of the tranny/million gender thing; a way to combine this with say tantric chakra dances mumbo jumbo and ecology in a non-GloboHomo way to take back the environmentalist youth; and a different cataclysm mass sacrifice thing (perhaps the World Wars+commie famines)…

    …and this is combined somehow with a philosophy that
    a) demands simple and clear arguments on any topic, and defends pattern-recognition and categorization as a basic element of the human condition, and
    b) posits that the natural social organization systems (including nuclear family, extended family, neighbors, church, etc) will gradually transform as humans transform, and should not be aggressively socially engineered out of existence…

    Then there’s a chance.

    Hijacking the “neo religion” thing; proposing an alternative to ‘holy transformation of humans’; protecting naturally arising pattern recognition; protecting naturally arising social systems (not in the sense of them being “perfect” but in the sense of “letting change unfold naturally”) .

    It worked when (((they))) did the reverse, so this can work as well. But it would take a group of not only utterly dedicated, but also monstrously smart and patient people. Of which there are not a lot around, and those who are are–many of them have yet to be awakened to the actual state of events.

    Speaking of which…Meme-based fast self-deprogramming kit:
    https://torrentz2.is/29664ef9084b75e15bef8117b77557e7f62fc11b

    Sometimes we’re not the warriors and the wise men, but we can be instrumental in awakening the warriors and the wise men.

  10. A.E., I have read through this post*, and I still have a question: The poll wording says “… consider a transgendered person …”, while, in your explanation of this complicated bullshit, you say “identify as…” How do you think the respondents understood the difference? I mean, I might even agree that a woman who went into the hospital and got a full out-patient adedictome** is in some way a man, not that I want to find out exactly!

    As far as “identifying as”, well that truly doesn’t mean jack squat to me. I can identify as a Boeing 747-800, but they are not gonna let me taxi if I request Runway 31L at JFK.

    Is there anyway to know how people would have taken this question, as I see a big difference?

    .

    * I apologize about last time – I was skimming too much.

    ** Sorry, that joke never gets old.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Fair questions. I'm not even exactly sure how I'd interpret it. I don't think I'd necessarily imagine reassignment surgery, but I would imagine all the typical exaggerated opposite-sex dress, behaviors, and affected mannerisms.
  11. @Anonymousse
    A majority of women consider transvestites to have actually changed their sex? The indoctrination has been that fast and complete? Amazing. If people can be taught to reject what they’ve known all their lives with just a couple years of media blitz... imagine what they can convince people of with the next push!

    The poison has gotten so very deep into our veins now. I don’t think there’s any saving this... the sane minority need to start thinking about what’s next and how to best prepare for it.

    Don’t despair. It’s only a poll, after all.

  12. Why is it in the interests of conservatives to save women’s sports? Playing sports does not promote motherhood and the nurturing skills to raise children. Conservatives are white knighting for 60s feminists who want to give women all the privileges of being a man without having to fail like one.

    If trans women destroy women’s sports those of us who uphold traditional femininity as a norm can rejoice.

    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Why is it in the interests of conservatives to save women’s sports? Playing sports does not promote motherhood and the nurturing skills to raise children.
     
    Could it be that conservatives are just liberals who don't like paying taxes? It's not that they disapprove of taxation, they just think the poor rather than the rich should be paying the taxes.

    Since conservatives are in fact liberals then obviously it should be no surprise that they are in favour of the entire liberal agenda.
    , @Anonymousse
    Yes playing sports promotes fertility in women and is generally prosocial in all sorts of cliche and true ways (determination, teamwork, dealing with defeat etc). It also can provide them with physical grace and an attractively formed body. Plus... it’s fun.

    Do you think a sedentary lifestyle promotes fertility in women? Admittedly one does see a lot of extremely large women with mocha toddlers in walmart... one can safely assume they aren’t engaging in any sport. Dysgenic fertility is promoted by women becoming unmarriageable hambeasts due to unhealthy and inactive lifestyles.

  13. Mick Dundee nailed it with his comments.

  14. What I find remarkable is that so many people are willing to at least play along with the charade. I suspect a fully anonymized survey would present some interesting results, in comparison to the telephone poll or the in-person polling. I bet the sex of the questioner plays a role as well.

    I’ve never actually met someone who thinks there are more than two sexes. I’ve met women who chant all of the slogans on the issue, but when pressed, they tend not to push back. At some level, they know it is just signalling.

    That’s not to say I think no one believes this stuff. I have met people who think space aliens regularly visit earth. I knew a woman who thought she was the Madonna. Granted, she was having a psychotic break, but people believe lots of crazy things. It’s just that they tend to be small in number. This poll strikes me as way out of line with my lived experience, as the cool kids say.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    It's another issue, like the ones brought up in last week's podcast (ie tariffs and protecting the environment), that create circles that are logically impossible for progressives to square.

    This one is so easy that either variation works equally well: "Yes, it's important people are able to change gender, just as it's important that people are able to change race," or "It's awful when white people pretend to be American Indian just to gain social benefits, just like it's awful when boys pretend to be girls just to gain social benefits."
  15. @Twinkie

    If Fallon Fox doesn’t ring a bell
     
    The sad thing about Fallon Fox is that he beat up a few amateur women and then was knocked out by Ashlee Evans-Smith, a journeywoman fighter (she has a few good wins on her record, but is not exactly a roided up power-puncher like "Cyborg").

    It's really messed up that we've come to the point in our society where we let mentally-ill men beat up women in combat sports. In combat sports! Where there are punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, throws, chokes, and joint-locks!

    It's insanity.

    It’s really messed up that there exist female combat sports.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    It’s really messed up that there exist female combat sports.
     
    So, you have a problem with women doing Judo?

    All my girls do Judo and Jiujitsu.

    What's wrong with them competing against other girls?
  16. @Brett

    Men are considerably more willing to grant maleness to women who identify as men than they are to grant femaleness to men who identify as women:
     
    But it's also true for the reverse. It looks like the sexes don't like/can't relate to people transitioning from their own sex to something else.

    This difference must be to some extent accounted for by an instinctive desire among men to protect wives and daughters from aggressive faux sheilas:
     
    Sure. It's probably not the main cause.

    Given that non-whites tend to be Democrat, that they are on the whole modestly more likely than whites to consider based on biology rather than on fancy, we can deduce that white Democrats are way more progressive on the gender issue than white non-Democrats and non-white Democrats are. The Great Awokening strikes again.
     
    It's abundantly clear that "woke" white people are leading cause of the absurdity of the current era. I don't understand why people on this site treat them as lost sheep rather than the primary enemy.

    I don’t understand why people on this site treat them as lost sheep rather than the primary enemy.

    If you think of them as the enemy, then you might start wanting to fight them. That has gone badly for the good guys now for several centuries, with only a few happy exceptions.

    • Replies: @ObjectionNoted
    Once you realize that you can’t fight them physically, then you realize that
    “we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

    Then you start to drift away from race based discussions entirely, even when they are based in observable fact, because the diversity is just the weapon, the controllers are the hired men, and the chief mastermind is not of this world.
  17. “sitting in the stall next to their teenage daughter”

    The bathroom stall of the essay is small beer (if anyone still uses that expression) compared to the exposure that occurs in a locker room, changing room, and shower room.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  18. Given that non-whites tend to be Democrat, that they are on the whole modestly more likely than whites to consider based on biology rather than on fancy, we can deduce that white Democrats are way more progressive on the gender issue than white non-Democrats and non-white Democrats are.

    The real problem is that Whites are more vulnerable to trend based thinking than other groups, and this is especially true for urban secular Whites.

    If the NYTimes continually blasted that we shouldn’t judge man-dog relations then these same Whites would happily adopt this virtue and then smugly parade it in front of others.

    They would have coffee conversations about how their “ignorant” relatives back home don’t support man-dog relations because they hate science.

  19. There are some peculiar comments on this issue., excuse my saying so.

    But the biology that determines or indicates sex/gender male or female is not merely based on biological appendages.

    There’s chemistry
    There’s function and bodily processes
    There’s mental acuity based on brain chemistry
    There is of course DNA

    The idea that one’s mental state is indicative of womanhood just has too many hurdles to overcome that cannot be addressed merely by surgery or hormone treatments.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  20. @Bill
    It's really messed up that there exist female combat sports.

    It’s really messed up that there exist female combat sports.

    So, you have a problem with women doing Judo?

    All my girls do Judo and Jiujitsu.

    What’s wrong with them competing against other girls?

    • Replies: @Bill
    Nature has a problem with women engaging in combat. Female combat sports are a perversity, the celebration of a perversity.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    In any semi-sane society, it is beneath a woman's dignity to fight, even stylized fighting such as judo or wrestling. There are other more "ladylike" ways to exercise to maintain physical fitness.
  21. @ScottC

    It’s really messed up that we’ve come to the point in our society where we let mentally-ill men beat up women in combat sports. In combat sports! Where there are punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, throws, chokes, and joint-locks!
     
    Why are women participating in combat sports in the first place? How does punching and kicking another woman promote fertility and motherhood?

    I’m not a big fan of striking sports for women, but grappling sports can be great for them.

    Daria Bilodid, two-time world champion and the youngest ever to win worlds.

  22. @ScottC

    This difference must be to some extent accounted for by an instinctive desire among men to protect wives and daughters from faux sheilas
     
    It's the other way around. Men are more accepting of women with a masculine presentation because they no longer have control over their daughters. They think that kind, submissive, traditionally feminine women are easy prey for canny men. A ftm tranny won't have to deal with predators.

    Conservative men are fond of uploading photos of lady soldiers with machine guns to Facebook, annoucing that their daughters got promoted in the marine corps, won a trophy for playing soccer, got a job at a law firm, or how they excelled at some other masculine activity and despite all of this insist that their daugbters are "not feminists" because they are "strong-willed" and "brave." Conservative men encourage their daughters to act like boys, even if they don't go the extra step of attaching prosthetics to their vaginas and calling them men. They do not enforce the feminine role that God and nature have designed for women. So why would they care that men are passing themselves off as women, when for the last 20-30 years they've been passing their daughters off as men-lite?

    The reason conservative men don't extend the same level of tolerance to mtf trannies as they do to ftm trannies (including their daughters) is because mtf trannies have rejected their masculinity. It's not "instinctive" to protect women from a danger that didn't exist in human prehistory (how would a man pass himself off as a woman in 50000BC? just by growing his hair long?). These mtf athletes are not playing sports to prey on women anyway. They're playing against women because it lowers the bar for advancement. But why should conservatives care? What is the point of preserving women's sports? Playing sports doesn't help women increase their fertility and develop the nurturing skills to raise children. Conservatives are effectively white knighting for women play-acting as boys against men play-acting as girls.

    they are “strong-willed” and “brave.”

    Feminine and strong-willed are not incompatible. Do you think the female settlers in the American West were wilting flowers? Tough women make tough sons. “E tan e epi tas” was uttered by a mother.

    • Replies: @ScottC

    Feminine and strong-willed are not incompatible. Do you think the female settlers in the American West were wilting flowers? Tough women make tough sons. “E tan e epi tas” was uttered by a mother.
     
    Women are not valued for their toughness because if they were they would be punished for lacking in that area. When was the last time someone called a woman a wimp or a weakling for being soft? It never happens. There was never any pressure on women to develop this trait because no one would hold them accountable for lacking it. You've swallowed some Hollywood/HBO feminist agitprop about the Western frontier if you think the average woman back then was like Annie Oakley. Human nature wasn't different in the Old West.

    Laurence of Arabia was feminine and strong willed, but he was a man.

  23. @ScottC
    Why is it in the interests of conservatives to save women's sports? Playing sports does not promote motherhood and the nurturing skills to raise children. Conservatives are white knighting for 60s feminists who want to give women all the privileges of being a man without having to fail like one.

    If trans women destroy women's sports those of us who uphold traditional femininity as a norm can rejoice.

    Why is it in the interests of conservatives to save women’s sports? Playing sports does not promote motherhood and the nurturing skills to raise children.

    Could it be that conservatives are just liberals who don’t like paying taxes? It’s not that they disapprove of taxation, they just think the poor rather than the rich should be paying the taxes.

    Since conservatives are in fact liberals then obviously it should be no surprise that they are in favour of the entire liberal agenda.

  24. @Screwtape
    The culture war is over. They won. Inviting debate that involves dissecting the corpse of badwhite American kkkulture puts them at risk of finding a hatefact bullet.

    After all, the body is not yet cold in this current year. So they must resort to the short list of narrative twitter feed fodder. Orange man bad, Ukraine, white man bad, etc.

    It is fascinating to watch, however, how they struggle to cull rhetorical daggers from the ether of their shared delusions that can pierce their opponents facade but not so much that it reveals that pesky reality - or the same color of their own petulant petticoats.

    Luckily, the death cult of leftism has suicidal dna: the holiness spiral.

    The megaphone for the left aka the media has learned that when accelerating toward the event horizon of leftist utopia, the holiness spiraling must be moderated. Clown cars and sharp objects kinda thing.

    Which is why the culture war issues are carefully curated. And why they were largely avoided this time round. This debate was a theatrical production to keep impeachment narrative alive. The field will be sorted off stage.

    The ‘social’ issues are more effective when sheathed safely in the knife drawer where the candidates can just open the drawer and point from a safe distance.

    See their twitter responses’ eg “no questions about LGBT or Climate crisis!!” etc. that way the fake debate can go on without the entropy of holiness spiraling causing too many honkey honk moments.

    As for the chix with dix survey, I think it is an interesting metric that might one day illustrate the fact that it is a lot harder to require people to disbelieve what they can plainly see than it is to encourage people to believe in something they cannot see.

    This is why the prog death cult will lose. But also why we need a religion that at the very least relies on the latter by way of generative faith - and guards against the former, as the degenerative nihilism of the prog death cult does tend to creep in.

    2+2=5 will kill a lot of people. Anyone with a passing interest in human history before the saint Obama era knows this. The only variables are time and magnitude.

    So in a way time is on our side (leftsim is suicidal) but also against us (demographics is destiny).

    I never thought I would miss the ‘80’s so much. Fitting that charlie sheen’s first film, Red Dawn, had him killing commie invaders with all-american chad zeal and then fast forward to him IRL banging tranny hookers and shooting H until he got pozzed.

    I recently watched the famous “Morning in America” Reagan campaign ad. It’s from a different galaxy.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I recently watched the famous “Morning in America” Reagan campaign ad. It’s from a different galaxy.
     
    That's the America with which I fell in love. It's the America I'd recreate if I were the emperor of the known universe.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    Z-man noted in his blog that that ad was all about money--that's one of the most astute observations that I've ever heard.
  25. @Ghak
    If you were to do your own afteraction report, why did your side get Bagrationed in the culture war so badly? It actually makes Gamelin look like the second coming of Caesar.

    As pithily as possible–affluence.

    1) Human desires are infinite
    2) Resources are limited

    If these two fundamental truths are not recognized and reckoned with, lunacy ensues.

    The Western world is carrying on as though 2) is not a hard reality. But it is. And when we’re no longer able to pretend it is not, that’s when the lunacy will get checked hard.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    As pithily as possible–affluence.
     
    I would put it very similarly - easy life.

    When life is without struggle, people tend to invent faux struggles.

    My earliest dog trainer told me once that "You gotta give dogs projects. Otherwise they will come up with their own projects and you won't like them."

    Humans are not all that different in that regard. When we don't have genuine struggles and challenges (and I don't mean "How do I lose 10 lbs.?" or "Can I get more viewers on my YouTube channel?"), we come up with destructive things to occupy our minds. Collectively, that becomes the disaster we have in our hands today.

    I wrote this before - this is one of the reasons why I inflict suffering and struggle on my children when I would rather give them a life of luxury and comfort and see smiles on their faces instead (and to be clear, while very difficult, that suffering has to be calibrated well, because too much suffering can crush some little spirits).

    It's also why all my children do combat sports. They learn the value of self-discipline, dedication, hard work, and camaraderie. They learn the incomparable joy of victory and triumph as well as the very bitter pill of defeat and loss. Someone wins. Someone loses. Life goes on. There is no place in my schema of child-rearing for "safe spaces," "gender identity," "everyone gets a trophy," "I have a pill for that," etc.

  26. @ScottC

    This difference must be to some extent accounted for by an instinctive desire among men to protect wives and daughters from faux sheilas
     
    It's the other way around. Men are more accepting of women with a masculine presentation because they no longer have control over their daughters. They think that kind, submissive, traditionally feminine women are easy prey for canny men. A ftm tranny won't have to deal with predators.

    Conservative men are fond of uploading photos of lady soldiers with machine guns to Facebook, annoucing that their daughters got promoted in the marine corps, won a trophy for playing soccer, got a job at a law firm, or how they excelled at some other masculine activity and despite all of this insist that their daugbters are "not feminists" because they are "strong-willed" and "brave." Conservative men encourage their daughters to act like boys, even if they don't go the extra step of attaching prosthetics to their vaginas and calling them men. They do not enforce the feminine role that God and nature have designed for women. So why would they care that men are passing themselves off as women, when for the last 20-30 years they've been passing their daughters off as men-lite?

    The reason conservative men don't extend the same level of tolerance to mtf trannies as they do to ftm trannies (including their daughters) is because mtf trannies have rejected their masculinity. It's not "instinctive" to protect women from a danger that didn't exist in human prehistory (how would a man pass himself off as a woman in 50000BC? just by growing his hair long?). These mtf athletes are not playing sports to prey on women anyway. They're playing against women because it lowers the bar for advancement. But why should conservatives care? What is the point of preserving women's sports? Playing sports doesn't help women increase their fertility and develop the nurturing skills to raise children. Conservatives are effectively white knighting for women play-acting as boys against men play-acting as girls.

    (how would a man pass himself off as a woman in 50000BC? just by growing his hair long?)

    Ask Clodious Pulcher!

  27. @Achmed E. Newman
    A.E., I have read through this post*, and I still have a question: The poll wording says "... consider a transgendered person ...", while, in your explanation of this complicated bullshit, you say "identify as..." How do you think the respondents understood the difference? I mean, I might even agree that a woman who went into the hospital and got a full out-patient adedictome** is in some way a man, not that I want to find out exactly!

    As far as "identifying as", well that truly doesn't mean jack squat to me. I can identify as a Boeing 747-800, but they are not gonna let me taxi if I request Runway 31L at JFK.

    Is there anyway to know how people would have taken this question, as I see a big difference?

    .

    * I apologize about last time - I was skimming too much.

    ** Sorry, that joke never gets old.

    Fair questions. I’m not even exactly sure how I’d interpret it. I don’t think I’d necessarily imagine reassignment surgery, but I would imagine all the typical exaggerated opposite-sex dress, behaviors, and affected mannerisms.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, and well some of that, the cross-dressing, is what used to be what a "tranny" WAS, back in the day, unless I didn't get WTF was going on. I make an effort NOT to keep up with this stuff, but I'll admit to going into the grocery before the late night movie some years back to buy some rice and bread to throw, and water guns to shoot, in order to properly participate.

    Here are your fathers' trannies, but something tells me they're not all from Transylvania anymore:

    (No matter what you think of it, you gotta admit that's some damn good rock and roll!)

    Let's go up to the lab, and see what's on the slab ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc80tFJpTuo

    Watch the whole thing, and you'll get to see Susan Sarandon in her underwear... no, no, wait... 1970s Susan Sarandon in her underwear.
  28. @The Z Blog
    What I find remarkable is that so many people are willing to at least play along with the charade. I suspect a fully anonymized survey would present some interesting results, in comparison to the telephone poll or the in-person polling. I bet the sex of the questioner plays a role as well.

    I've never actually met someone who thinks there are more than two sexes. I've met women who chant all of the slogans on the issue, but when pressed, they tend not to push back. At some level, they know it is just signalling.

    That's not to say I think no one believes this stuff. I have met people who think space aliens regularly visit earth. I knew a woman who thought she was the Madonna. Granted, she was having a psychotic break, but people believe lots of crazy things. It's just that they tend to be small in number. This poll strikes me as way out of line with my lived experience, as the cool kids say.

    It’s another issue, like the ones brought up in last week’s podcast (ie tariffs and protecting the environment), that create circles that are logically impossible for progressives to square.

    This one is so easy that either variation works equally well: “Yes, it’s important people are able to change gender, just as it’s important that people are able to change race,” or “It’s awful when white people pretend to be American Indian just to gain social benefits, just like it’s awful when boys pretend to be girls just to gain social benefits.”

  29. @Audacious Epigone
    Fair questions. I'm not even exactly sure how I'd interpret it. I don't think I'd necessarily imagine reassignment surgery, but I would imagine all the typical exaggerated opposite-sex dress, behaviors, and affected mannerisms.

    Yeah, and well some of that, the cross-dressing, is what used to be what a “tranny” WAS, back in the day, unless I didn’t get WTF was going on. I make an effort NOT to keep up with this stuff, but I’ll admit to going into the grocery before the late night movie some years back to buy some rice and bread to throw, and water guns to shoot, in order to properly participate.

    Here are your fathers’ trannies, but something tells me they’re not all from Transylvania anymore:

    (No matter what you think of it, you gotta admit that’s some damn good rock and roll!)

    Let’s go up to the lab, and see what’s on the slab …

    Watch the whole thing, and you’ll get to see Susan Sarandon in her underwear… no, no, wait… 1970s Susan Sarandon in her underwear.

  30. @ScottC
    Why is it in the interests of conservatives to save women's sports? Playing sports does not promote motherhood and the nurturing skills to raise children. Conservatives are white knighting for 60s feminists who want to give women all the privileges of being a man without having to fail like one.

    If trans women destroy women's sports those of us who uphold traditional femininity as a norm can rejoice.

    Yes playing sports promotes fertility in women and is generally prosocial in all sorts of cliche and true ways (determination, teamwork, dealing with defeat etc). It also can provide them with physical grace and an attractively formed body. Plus… it’s fun.

    Do you think a sedentary lifestyle promotes fertility in women? Admittedly one does see a lot of extremely large women with mocha toddlers in walmart… one can safely assume they aren’t engaging in any sport. Dysgenic fertility is promoted by women becoming unmarriageable hambeasts due to unhealthy and inactive lifestyles.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Yes playing sports promotes fertility in women and is generally prosocial
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-2000-0110-500%2C_BDM%2C_Gymnastikvorf%C3%BChrung.jpg
  31. @Bill

    I don’t understand why people on this site treat them as lost sheep rather than the primary enemy.
     
    If you think of them as the enemy, then you might start wanting to fight them. That has gone badly for the good guys now for several centuries, with only a few happy exceptions.

    Once you realize that you can’t fight them physically, then you realize that
    “we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

    Then you start to drift away from race based discussions entirely, even when they are based in observable fact, because the diversity is just the weapon, the controllers are the hired men, and the chief mastermind is not of this world.

  32. @ScottC

    It’s really messed up that we’ve come to the point in our society where we let mentally-ill men beat up women in combat sports. In combat sports! Where there are punching, kicking, elbowing, kneeing, throws, chokes, and joint-locks!
     
    Why are women participating in combat sports in the first place? How does punching and kicking another woman promote fertility and motherhood?

    Since we’ve left behind a world where our daughters have to confront situations like this one…

    The least we can do is leave them capable to handle situation like this one…

    • Replies: @anon
    The least we can do is leave them capable to handle situation like this one…

    That girl was in a stupid place with stupid people, and got wrapped up in a stupid situation. Here's how to handle that:

    1. Do not go to stupid places.
    2. Do not hang out with stupid people.
    3. Do not do stupid things.

    Simple.

    Look, we don't have to teach girls to be MMA Ronda Rousey fighters. We do have to teach them common sense. Also "movies are not reality, you will not prevail in a fight against a man".

    , @ScottC
    It's a misguided expression of the male protective instinct. Men should take control of their daughters, not turn them into "strong" and "brave" tomboys before setting them loose in the world.
  33. LGBT is unnatural and an abomination to God. These people are lost souls who are living a self-serving lifestyle that’s the product of our highly sexualized environment.

  34. anon[218] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymousse
    Since we’ve left behind a world where our daughters have to confront situations like this one...

    https://youtu.be/9_s2ulYZU1s

    The least we can do is leave them capable to handle situation like this one...

    The least we can do is leave them capable to handle situation like this one…

    That girl was in a stupid place with stupid people, and got wrapped up in a stupid situation. Here’s how to handle that:

    1. Do not go to stupid places.
    2. Do not hang out with stupid people.
    3. Do not do stupid things.

    Simple.

    Look, we don’t have to teach girls to be MMA Ronda Rousey fighters. We do have to teach them common sense. Also “movies are not reality, you will not prevail in a fight against a man”.

  35. @Ghak
    If you were to do your own afteraction report, why did your side get Bagrationed in the culture war so badly? It actually makes Gamelin look like the second coming of Caesar.

    How much time do you have?

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  36. @Audacious Epigone
    As pithily as possible--affluence.

    1) Human desires are infinite
    2) Resources are limited

    If these two fundamental truths are not recognized and reckoned with, lunacy ensues.

    The Western world is carrying on as though 2) is not a hard reality. But it is. And when we're no longer able to pretend it is not, that's when the lunacy will get checked hard.

    As pithily as possible–affluence.

    I would put it very similarly – easy life.

    When life is without struggle, people tend to invent faux struggles.

    My earliest dog trainer told me once that “You gotta give dogs projects. Otherwise they will come up with their own projects and you won’t like them.”

    Humans are not all that different in that regard. When we don’t have genuine struggles and challenges (and I don’t mean “How do I lose 10 lbs.?” or “Can I get more viewers on my YouTube channel?”), we come up with destructive things to occupy our minds. Collectively, that becomes the disaster we have in our hands today.

    I wrote this before – this is one of the reasons why I inflict suffering and struggle on my children when I would rather give them a life of luxury and comfort and see smiles on their faces instead (and to be clear, while very difficult, that suffering has to be calibrated well, because too much suffering can crush some little spirits).

    It’s also why all my children do combat sports. They learn the value of self-discipline, dedication, hard work, and camaraderie. They learn the incomparable joy of victory and triumph as well as the very bitter pill of defeat and loss. Someone wins. Someone loses. Life goes on. There is no place in my schema of child-rearing for “safe spaces,” “gender identity,” “everyone gets a trophy,” “I have a pill for that,” etc.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Pithily again, because I'm not as eloquent as you are:

    Pressure leads to power.

    Stress leads to strength.
  37. @Anonymousse
    Yes playing sports promotes fertility in women and is generally prosocial in all sorts of cliche and true ways (determination, teamwork, dealing with defeat etc). It also can provide them with physical grace and an attractively formed body. Plus... it’s fun.

    Do you think a sedentary lifestyle promotes fertility in women? Admittedly one does see a lot of extremely large women with mocha toddlers in walmart... one can safely assume they aren’t engaging in any sport. Dysgenic fertility is promoted by women becoming unmarriageable hambeasts due to unhealthy and inactive lifestyles.

    Yes playing sports promotes fertility in women and is generally prosocial

    • Replies: @ScottC
    How does that photo demonstrate that playing sports promotes fertility? Team sports is a simulation of warfare. It has nothing to do with enhancing a woman's fertility.
  38. @Audacious Epigone
    I recently watched the famous "Morning in America" Reagan campaign ad. It's from a different galaxy.

    I recently watched the famous “Morning in America” Reagan campaign ad. It’s from a different galaxy.

    That’s the America with which I fell in love. It’s the America I’d recreate if I were the emperor of the known universe.

    • Replies: @Ghak
    But unfortunately you are just the court jester.
  39. @Twinkie

    I recently watched the famous “Morning in America” Reagan campaign ad. It’s from a different galaxy.
     
    That's the America with which I fell in love. It's the America I'd recreate if I were the emperor of the known universe.

    But unfortunately you are just the court jester.

  40. @Twinkie

    they are “strong-willed” and “brave.”
     
    Feminine and strong-willed are not incompatible. Do you think the female settlers in the American West were wilting flowers? Tough women make tough sons. “E tan e epi tas” was uttered by a mother.

    Feminine and strong-willed are not incompatible. Do you think the female settlers in the American West were wilting flowers? Tough women make tough sons. “E tan e epi tas” was uttered by a mother.

    Women are not valued for their toughness because if they were they would be punished for lacking in that area. When was the last time someone called a woman a wimp or a weakling for being soft? It never happens. There was never any pressure on women to develop this trait because no one would hold them accountable for lacking it. You’ve swallowed some Hollywood/HBO feminist agitprop about the Western frontier if you think the average woman back then was like Annie Oakley. Human nature wasn’t different in the Old West.

    Laurence of Arabia was feminine and strong willed, but he was a man.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Women are not valued for their toughness
     
    I’m guessing you are neither married nor have children, especially daughters. Toughness and grit are not the same as “butch.” And certain quarters of America have always valued gritty wives and mothers. A woman can be beautiful and alluring, yet tough and gritty.

    You’ve swallowed some Hollywood/HBO feminist agitprop
     
    You have no clue about me, do you?

    “E tan e epi tas” isn’t from Hollywood.

    My wife is as feminine and graceful as they come, and she grew up playing with dolls and dressing up as well as playing sports and hunting with her father and brothers. She was a high level athlete at the Ivy alma mater where she and I met. She’s exceptionally adventurous and competitive. She and I almost drowned trying to out-swim each other in the ocean and nearly broke our necks mountain-bicycling down a wooded mountain at full speed.

    She and I are obedient Catholics and have a large family, and she unquestioningly accepts my authority over the family as its spiritual leader (the flip side is that I unfailingly sacrifice for her and my family - I don’t live for me, I live for them).
  41. @Twinkie

    Yes playing sports promotes fertility in women and is generally prosocial
     
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-2000-0110-500%2C_BDM%2C_Gymnastikvorf%C3%BChrung.jpg

    How does that photo demonstrate that playing sports promotes fertility? Team sports is a simulation of warfare. It has nothing to do with enhancing a woman’s fertility.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Obesity and poor fitness are bad for fertility.
  42. @Anonymousse
    Since we’ve left behind a world where our daughters have to confront situations like this one...

    https://youtu.be/9_s2ulYZU1s

    The least we can do is leave them capable to handle situation like this one...

    It’s a misguided expression of the male protective instinct. Men should take control of their daughters, not turn them into “strong” and “brave” tomboys before setting them loose in the world.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Men should take control of their daughters
     
    Again, you write of something about which you seem to know little. Your children are not your slaves to “control.” They are not-yet-fully-formed human beings with their own will and, eventually, autonomy. A parent’s job is to protect and nourish his children, and also to inculcate, educate, and guide them, so that they become self-reliant, productive adults who please God and contribute to their communities and nations.

    You can’t control children - they are not cattle. You try your best to shape them, and God-willing, minimize the effects of their inborn negative tendencies and cultivate their positive traits that allow them to flourish.
    , @Anonymousse
    Are you sure you’re not just trolling? I’m a little suspicious of the sincerity of this Andrew Anglin tier “women should only bake cookies and nurse babies, amirite my fellow right wingers?”

    Even the most submissive, obedient, and feminine wife doesn’t sit around on cushions fainting and waiting for orders and insemination. That reads more like some dogmom’s franzia fueled sex fantasy than authentically trad.

    Also outside the middle east or guatemala there are typically a few years to fill between birth and motherhood, right? Sport is usually a more constructive alternative for single girls than gossip magazines or becoming greta thunberg.

  43. @ScottC

    Feminine and strong-willed are not incompatible. Do you think the female settlers in the American West were wilting flowers? Tough women make tough sons. “E tan e epi tas” was uttered by a mother.
     
    Women are not valued for their toughness because if they were they would be punished for lacking in that area. When was the last time someone called a woman a wimp or a weakling for being soft? It never happens. There was never any pressure on women to develop this trait because no one would hold them accountable for lacking it. You've swallowed some Hollywood/HBO feminist agitprop about the Western frontier if you think the average woman back then was like Annie Oakley. Human nature wasn't different in the Old West.

    Laurence of Arabia was feminine and strong willed, but he was a man.

    Women are not valued for their toughness

    I’m guessing you are neither married nor have children, especially daughters. Toughness and grit are not the same as “butch.” And certain quarters of America have always valued gritty wives and mothers. A woman can be beautiful and alluring, yet tough and gritty.

    You’ve swallowed some Hollywood/HBO feminist agitprop

    You have no clue about me, do you?

    “E tan e epi tas” isn’t from Hollywood.

    My wife is as feminine and graceful as they come, and she grew up playing with dolls and dressing up as well as playing sports and hunting with her father and brothers. She was a high level athlete at the Ivy alma mater where she and I met. She’s exceptionally adventurous and competitive. She and I almost drowned trying to out-swim each other in the ocean and nearly broke our necks mountain-bicycling down a wooded mountain at full speed.

    She and I are obedient Catholics and have a large family, and she unquestioningly accepts my authority over the family as its spiritual leader (the flip side is that I unfailingly sacrifice for her and my family – I don’t live for me, I live for them).

    • Replies: @John Regan
    Biologically, toughness and competitiveness are characteristic of high-testosterone phenotypes, which also correlate strongly with other masculine (or if you prefer, "butch") characteristics. There are both psychological and physiological reasons why high testosterone levels in women also correlate negatively with net fertility. Competitive, career-hungry women tend to be less interested in children, and men tend to be less interested in them.

    This is not to say anything about you or your wife specifically. But going by what you are posting here, you both seem to be rather exceptional individuals. What works for you will not necessarily work for most people.

    Throughout most of history, gritty toughness has indeed not been a characteristic promoted in women, or a standard they have generally been held up against for measure, nor have their social roles (by and large) required such as its primary content. There have been certain exceptions (Christian martyrs braving torture with manly courage come to mind), but nothing like the present-day avalanche of Wonder Womens and Miss Marvels and GI Janes. The concerted efforts by the mass media-industrial complex to destroy the traditional sex roles in society are very probably among the major reasons why anxiety and unhappiness are skyrocketing in our times. (The other main cause would of course be enforced cosmopolitanism and "diversity" destroying communities and the average person's sense of belonging.)

    Under these conditions, I think it's very important not to unwittingly reinforce these destructive messages. Women are told every day by TV that they should be tough and strong and gritty and as good as the men at everything. Almost no voice remains to tell them that it's acceptable to be traditionally feminine (i.e., non-competitive, non-combative, caring). This is a very regrettable development.
    , @Athletic and Whitesplosive
    Your wife sounds like an exceptional woman, but do you imagine the attitude generally encouraged in organized women's sports is that they should aspire to be the obedient and loving helpmeet of their husbands? I'd say it's more often the exact opposite.

    To argue that this isn't the case because your personal experience is different is nearly as bad as saying that attending university is good for women's fertility, since your wife is fertile, and she went to University didn't she?
    , @ScottC

    I’m guessing you are neither married nor have children, especially daughters. Toughness and grit are not the same as “butch.” And certain quarters of America have always valued gritty wives and mothers. A woman can be beautiful and alluring, yet tough and gritty.
     
    It's funny how "tough but feminine" is only a virtue for women. If you had a son who played football but also made pretty dresses that he wore around the house, you wouldn't defend his behavior. You wouldn't say that a man can be both feminine and masculine, using your son as an example. You would see it as a perversion and scold him for it. You only make an exception for your daughters because you know they'll be out in the world one day and you won't be able to coordinate your desire to protect them with their free choices. This "tough girl" crap is an adaptation to feminism. No woman anywhere, at any time, including the Old West, has been shamed for lacking toughness.

    “E tan e epi tas” isn’t from Hollywood.
     
    Out of context. I meant your idea that in the Old West human nature was different. Women were not called "lily-livered cowards" in the American West because men did not care if women could tame bulls and win gunfights. When a character trait is valued, people are pushed to develop that trait. People who lack that trait are shamed. Women are not shamed for being soft. It simply doesn't happen.
  44. @ScottC
    How does that photo demonstrate that playing sports promotes fertility? Team sports is a simulation of warfare. It has nothing to do with enhancing a woman's fertility.

    Obesity and poor fitness are bad for fertility.

    • Replies: @ScottC

    Obesity and poor fitness are bad for fertility.
     
    How did women manage to have more children before they started playing basketball and getting bruised up in UFC matches? It's almost like playing sports and fertility have nothing to do with each other.
  45. @ScottC
    It's a misguided expression of the male protective instinct. Men should take control of their daughters, not turn them into "strong" and "brave" tomboys before setting them loose in the world.

    Men should take control of their daughters

    Again, you write of something about which you seem to know little. Your children are not your slaves to “control.” They are not-yet-fully-formed human beings with their own will and, eventually, autonomy. A parent’s job is to protect and nourish his children, and also to inculcate, educate, and guide them, so that they become self-reliant, productive adults who please God and contribute to their communities and nations.

    You can’t control children – they are not cattle. You try your best to shape them, and God-willing, minimize the effects of their inborn negative tendencies and cultivate their positive traits that allow them to flourish.

    • Replies: @ScottC

    Your children are not your slaves to “control.”
     
    You took the most restrictive meaning of the word and set up a strawman. I don't mean control them like puppets, I mean control in the sense of having legal authority over them. During coverture, women had to get their father's permission to marry another man or to travel. This notion that we set them free at 18 and hope for the best is a product of feminism and is taken for granted by conservatives. Raising our daughters to be apparently strong and brave (because they are never punished for cowardice and frailty) is a perversion that is a response to another perversion.
  46. “Obesity and poor fitness are bad for fertility.”

    But the purpose, at least at its core is intended to prepare men to care for family and serve country. I don’t think the argument is that women should not exercise or engage in sports. It is that the role of men is being supplanted to the detriment of women and society in general.

    Whatever strange notions women have about jumping from their pedastals, ut remains true, that the societal expectation is that men are to take risks which put them physically in harms way, regardless of the woman is a Mrs. Nicole Urban (Nicole Kidman) or Mrs. Serena Ohanian (Serena Williams).

    ———————–

    https://bestivf.newhopefertility.com/ivf-blog/-temporary-slug-b122c24a-95d4-4b49-b2a8-0c6d3ad3a970

  47. @ScottC
    It's a misguided expression of the male protective instinct. Men should take control of their daughters, not turn them into "strong" and "brave" tomboys before setting them loose in the world.

    Are you sure you’re not just trolling? I’m a little suspicious of the sincerity of this Andrew Anglin tier “women should only bake cookies and nurse babies, amirite my fellow right wingers?”

    Even the most submissive, obedient, and feminine wife doesn’t sit around on cushions fainting and waiting for orders and insemination. That reads more like some dogmom’s franzia fueled sex fantasy than authentically trad.

    Also outside the middle east or guatemala there are typically a few years to fill between birth and motherhood, right? Sport is usually a more constructive alternative for single girls than gossip magazines or becoming greta thunberg.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Sport is usually a more constructive alternative for single girls than gossip magazines or becoming greta thunberg.
     
    Absolutely!

    I was my wife’s first and only boyfriend. Between her studying, her work (babysitting at the church next to the university and occasional catalog modeling), and the intense demands of her sport (getting up at 5 am to train, no alcohol/partying during competition season), she didn’t have the time or energy to do stupid (and/or immoral) things.

    We met via a Campus Crusade for Christ event. And then as soon as she graduated, we married.

    Sports are a fine way to occupy the restless young body, male or female. Otherwise, young minds dream up much more self-destructive things to do with their bodies.
    , @Ghak
    Well the problem is that it is advisable to give birth to all your children before 30, for health reasons, or at least that is what our boomer and gen x parents say. Now if a female graduates at 22 or 23 from college, plus you add the 2 or 3 years courtship before marriage, and add the recommend every other year or once every three years proped spacing between children, and if you do the math, then she is not going to give birth to all of her children before 30, add cases where a female may want to complete her finance or economics masters, law degree, cfa, or MD first, and fully establishing their careers, before marrying, and you have highly educated 125ish IQ women delaying their first chilbirth into their mid-30s at least.
    , @ScottC

    I’m a little suspicious of the sincerity of this Andrew Anglin tier “women should only bake cookies and nurse babies, amirite my fellow right wingers?”
     
    Every society until the 20th century was run by men like that. Did we learn something new in the 20th century that makes that sentiment seem quaint? Whatever we learned it wasn't that playing sports and going to college makes women happier and have more kids.

    Even the most submissive, obedient, and feminine wife doesn’t sit around on cushions fainting and waiting for orders and insemination. That reads more like some dogmom’s franzia fueled sex fantasy than authentically trad.
     
    How do women fail at womanhood? Not by failing at sports, because no one cares about that. No one will tell a girl that she sucks at sports or that she's a loser and a wimp for avoiding sports.

    Also outside the middle east or guatemala there are typically a few years to fill between birth and motherhood, right?
     
    The insinuation here is that making motherhood the focus of a woman's life is somehow backwards, which is why you mention the Middle East and Guatemala. You could have made an association between those countries and transgender acceptance. Does that mean that we should give in to the leftist push for transgender acceptance because it's not accepted in the Middle East and Guatemala? You could have used our own history as a reference point. Were were hopelessly backwards on the station of women until the 20th century? Count both of us as suspicious.
  48. anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    Things get weirder and weirder each day. Wonder how many people responding to this poll gave an answer they thought they should give rather than what they really felt? Also, how many respondents have actually encountered a trannie in person for more than a few minutes in passing? Living in a large city like Chicago one sees a lot of these freaks. Believe me, up close those are some very creepy people who will trigger feelings of repulsion in just about anyone. It is instinctive and a normal man (don’t know about women; many seem to be dazzled by the novelty) would have to override his instincts. That we’re even having this conversation shows how TPTB have imposed all this upon everyone

  49. @Twinkie

    Women are not valued for their toughness
     
    I’m guessing you are neither married nor have children, especially daughters. Toughness and grit are not the same as “butch.” And certain quarters of America have always valued gritty wives and mothers. A woman can be beautiful and alluring, yet tough and gritty.

    You’ve swallowed some Hollywood/HBO feminist agitprop
     
    You have no clue about me, do you?

    “E tan e epi tas” isn’t from Hollywood.

    My wife is as feminine and graceful as they come, and she grew up playing with dolls and dressing up as well as playing sports and hunting with her father and brothers. She was a high level athlete at the Ivy alma mater where she and I met. She’s exceptionally adventurous and competitive. She and I almost drowned trying to out-swim each other in the ocean and nearly broke our necks mountain-bicycling down a wooded mountain at full speed.

    She and I are obedient Catholics and have a large family, and she unquestioningly accepts my authority over the family as its spiritual leader (the flip side is that I unfailingly sacrifice for her and my family - I don’t live for me, I live for them).

    Biologically, toughness and competitiveness are characteristic of high-testosterone phenotypes, which also correlate strongly with other masculine (or if you prefer, “butch”) characteristics. There are both psychological and physiological reasons why high testosterone levels in women also correlate negatively with net fertility. Competitive, career-hungry women tend to be less interested in children, and men tend to be less interested in them.

    This is not to say anything about you or your wife specifically. But going by what you are posting here, you both seem to be rather exceptional individuals. What works for you will not necessarily work for most people.

    Throughout most of history, gritty toughness has indeed not been a characteristic promoted in women, or a standard they have generally been held up against for measure, nor have their social roles (by and large) required such as its primary content. There have been certain exceptions (Christian martyrs braving torture with manly courage come to mind), but nothing like the present-day avalanche of Wonder Womens and Miss Marvels and GI Janes. The concerted efforts by the mass media-industrial complex to destroy the traditional sex roles in society are very probably among the major reasons why anxiety and unhappiness are skyrocketing in our times. (The other main cause would of course be enforced cosmopolitanism and “diversity” destroying communities and the average person’s sense of belonging.)

    Under these conditions, I think it’s very important not to unwittingly reinforce these destructive messages. Women are told every day by TV that they should be tough and strong and gritty and as good as the men at everything. Almost no voice remains to tell them that it’s acceptable to be traditionally feminine (i.e., non-competitive, non-combative, caring). This is a very regrettable development.

    • Agree: ScottC
    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    All those destructive messages seem to be working as I see more masculine women (from tomboy to butch) today than ever before.
  50. @Twinkie

    Women are not valued for their toughness
     
    I’m guessing you are neither married nor have children, especially daughters. Toughness and grit are not the same as “butch.” And certain quarters of America have always valued gritty wives and mothers. A woman can be beautiful and alluring, yet tough and gritty.

    You’ve swallowed some Hollywood/HBO feminist agitprop
     
    You have no clue about me, do you?

    “E tan e epi tas” isn’t from Hollywood.

    My wife is as feminine and graceful as they come, and she grew up playing with dolls and dressing up as well as playing sports and hunting with her father and brothers. She was a high level athlete at the Ivy alma mater where she and I met. She’s exceptionally adventurous and competitive. She and I almost drowned trying to out-swim each other in the ocean and nearly broke our necks mountain-bicycling down a wooded mountain at full speed.

    She and I are obedient Catholics and have a large family, and she unquestioningly accepts my authority over the family as its spiritual leader (the flip side is that I unfailingly sacrifice for her and my family - I don’t live for me, I live for them).

    Your wife sounds like an exceptional woman, but do you imagine the attitude generally encouraged in organized women’s sports is that they should aspire to be the obedient and loving helpmeet of their husbands? I’d say it’s more often the exact opposite.

    To argue that this isn’t the case because your personal experience is different is nearly as bad as saying that attending university is good for women’s fertility, since your wife is fertile, and she went to University didn’t she?

    • Replies: @Anonymousse

    do you imagine the attitude generally encouraged in organized women’s sports is that they should aspire to be the obedient and loving helpmeet of their husbands? I’d say it’s more often the exact opposite.
     
    Huh? I’ve attended many sports events and practices over the years and never witnessed the “practice reversing roles in your (future) marriage” part of the event. Do you suppose this happens a lot in girls high school soccer for example? Maybe just a quick Betty Freidan reading before penalty kicks? A Bella Abzug quote to focus the mind before overtime?

    How does this alleged ideological content compare to the amount of indoctrination that takes place in oh... required psyche, sociology, and anthropology 101 classes? And anyone that has a TV in their home but is worried about feminist messages during gymnastics class (?) is seriously doing it wrong.

    Right wing women should not be fat, lazy, and helpless. This does NOT imply that they need to be stronk empowered women who don’t need no man. Presenting those as the alternatives is accepting the premises of the poisonous jewish dichotomy that put femininity and competence on opposite poles.

    , @Twinkie

    do you imagine the attitude generally encouraged in organized women’s sports is that they should aspire to be the obedient and loving helpmeet of their husbands? I’d say it’s more often the exact opposite.
     
    Sports are not about teaching women to be loving mothers and caring wives. That's the job of their parents, community, and the Church.

    What athletics do for young girls - indeed, for everyone - is teach universally desirable traits such as self-discipline and fortitude, to overcome adversity and physical pain and keep going. It also teaches humility (because everyone loses, eventually).

    There is also the fact that women who do sports, especially combat sports, learn very quickly that men and women are very, very different. My oldest daughter thinks she's pretty hot stuff at Judo, but the first time she trained (for real) with her brother was a huge reality check. It looked a bit like the Andre the Giant-Wesley fight scene in "Princess Bride." My eldest son struggled not to laugh uproariously, as my eldest daughter hung on him, desperately trying to move him.

    My daughters - all combat-sports trained - have no illusions about male-female differences.

    It's not the female athletes who entertain "male butt-kicking female superhero" fantasies - it's usually the fat slobs (including males) who sit on couches and watch comic book movies all day.
  51. @John Regan
    Biologically, toughness and competitiveness are characteristic of high-testosterone phenotypes, which also correlate strongly with other masculine (or if you prefer, "butch") characteristics. There are both psychological and physiological reasons why high testosterone levels in women also correlate negatively with net fertility. Competitive, career-hungry women tend to be less interested in children, and men tend to be less interested in them.

    This is not to say anything about you or your wife specifically. But going by what you are posting here, you both seem to be rather exceptional individuals. What works for you will not necessarily work for most people.

    Throughout most of history, gritty toughness has indeed not been a characteristic promoted in women, or a standard they have generally been held up against for measure, nor have their social roles (by and large) required such as its primary content. There have been certain exceptions (Christian martyrs braving torture with manly courage come to mind), but nothing like the present-day avalanche of Wonder Womens and Miss Marvels and GI Janes. The concerted efforts by the mass media-industrial complex to destroy the traditional sex roles in society are very probably among the major reasons why anxiety and unhappiness are skyrocketing in our times. (The other main cause would of course be enforced cosmopolitanism and "diversity" destroying communities and the average person's sense of belonging.)

    Under these conditions, I think it's very important not to unwittingly reinforce these destructive messages. Women are told every day by TV that they should be tough and strong and gritty and as good as the men at everything. Almost no voice remains to tell them that it's acceptable to be traditionally feminine (i.e., non-competitive, non-combative, caring). This is a very regrettable development.

    All those destructive messages seem to be working as I see more masculine women (from tomboy to butch) today than ever before.

    • Replies: @anon
    All those destructive messages seem to be working as I see more masculine women (from tomboy to butch) today than ever before.

    Some of that is just feminism working through the polity. We really do at least in part wear our life on our face, so when you have women that have been raised since they were little girls to act like "one of the guys" it eventually shows. There could well be other effects, though; the environment is full of chemicals that affect the endocrine system - this may be part of why testosterone levels and sperm counts have been falling for at least 20 years, in the industrialized world.

    Observably, in the last few years I've seen a growing number of women in America who have wider shoulders than hips. It's more like the standard male "V" profile than the classic female "8" silhouette. Maybe it is just sample error on my part, but there it is.
  52. @Twinkie

    It’s really messed up that there exist female combat sports.
     
    So, you have a problem with women doing Judo?

    All my girls do Judo and Jiujitsu.

    What's wrong with them competing against other girls?

    Nature has a problem with women engaging in combat. Female combat sports are a perversity, the celebration of a perversity.

    • Replies: @Anonymousse
    Watching women women punch each other for entertainment is indeed a degenerate pastime... but have you informed nature about its stance against females in combat?

    https://youtu.be/0FRiwnN3Wv8

    It’s absolutely clear that a man is always the front line of the family’s defense, but if he’s not capable or not present it’s a woman’s duty to protect children with any weapon she’s capable of wielding. Not to mention her own life and honor (quaint concept that now is!).

    Of course this is not an ideal situation but today’s world is hardly an ideal place. The standard of behavior you’re proposing might have been sustainable in a civilized european country... but have you set foot in a big city public school in the last couple decades?

  53. @Twinkie

    As pithily as possible–affluence.
     
    I would put it very similarly - easy life.

    When life is without struggle, people tend to invent faux struggles.

    My earliest dog trainer told me once that "You gotta give dogs projects. Otherwise they will come up with their own projects and you won't like them."

    Humans are not all that different in that regard. When we don't have genuine struggles and challenges (and I don't mean "How do I lose 10 lbs.?" or "Can I get more viewers on my YouTube channel?"), we come up with destructive things to occupy our minds. Collectively, that becomes the disaster we have in our hands today.

    I wrote this before - this is one of the reasons why I inflict suffering and struggle on my children when I would rather give them a life of luxury and comfort and see smiles on their faces instead (and to be clear, while very difficult, that suffering has to be calibrated well, because too much suffering can crush some little spirits).

    It's also why all my children do combat sports. They learn the value of self-discipline, dedication, hard work, and camaraderie. They learn the incomparable joy of victory and triumph as well as the very bitter pill of defeat and loss. Someone wins. Someone loses. Life goes on. There is no place in my schema of child-rearing for "safe spaces," "gender identity," "everyone gets a trophy," "I have a pill for that," etc.

    Pithily again, because I’m not as eloquent as you are:

    Pressure leads to power.

    Stress leads to strength.

  54. @Athletic and Whitesplosive
    Your wife sounds like an exceptional woman, but do you imagine the attitude generally encouraged in organized women's sports is that they should aspire to be the obedient and loving helpmeet of their husbands? I'd say it's more often the exact opposite.

    To argue that this isn't the case because your personal experience is different is nearly as bad as saying that attending university is good for women's fertility, since your wife is fertile, and she went to University didn't she?

    do you imagine the attitude generally encouraged in organized women’s sports is that they should aspire to be the obedient and loving helpmeet of their husbands? I’d say it’s more often the exact opposite.

    Huh? I’ve attended many sports events and practices over the years and never witnessed the “practice reversing roles in your (future) marriage” part of the event. Do you suppose this happens a lot in girls high school soccer for example? Maybe just a quick Betty Freidan reading before penalty kicks? A Bella Abzug quote to focus the mind before overtime?

    How does this alleged ideological content compare to the amount of indoctrination that takes place in oh… required psyche, sociology, and anthropology 101 classes? And anyone that has a TV in their home but is worried about feminist messages during gymnastics class (?) is seriously doing it wrong.

    Right wing women should not be fat, lazy, and helpless. This does NOT imply that they need to be stronk empowered women who don’t need no man. Presenting those as the alternatives is accepting the premises of the poisonous jewish dichotomy that put femininity and competence on opposite poles.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  55. @Bill
    Nature has a problem with women engaging in combat. Female combat sports are a perversity, the celebration of a perversity.

    Watching women women punch each other for entertainment is indeed a degenerate pastime… but have you informed nature about its stance against females in combat?

    It’s absolutely clear that a man is always the front line of the family’s defense, but if he’s not capable or not present it’s a woman’s duty to protect children with any weapon she’s capable of wielding. Not to mention her own life and honor (quaint concept that now is!).

    Of course this is not an ideal situation but today’s world is hardly an ideal place. The standard of behavior you’re proposing might have been sustainable in a civilized european country… but have you set foot in a big city public school in the last couple decades?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    The standard of behavior you’re proposing might have been sustainable in a civilized european country…
     
    Even then and there, some gentle ladies carried small pistols to ward off would be robbers and rapists.

    And as soon as Jiu-Jitsu became known in Europe...

    https://66.media.tumblr.com/f890e0c2718d002d48e5245d6cc6c9fd/tumblr_pgg82x10Zx1ueapts_400.jpg
    , @anon
    Watching women women punch each other for entertainment is indeed a degenerate pastime… but have you informed nature about its stance against females in combat?

    Lol. All bear sows are "single mothers", dude. Your analogy is totally broken.
  56. @Anonymousse
    Are you sure you’re not just trolling? I’m a little suspicious of the sincerity of this Andrew Anglin tier “women should only bake cookies and nurse babies, amirite my fellow right wingers?”

    Even the most submissive, obedient, and feminine wife doesn’t sit around on cushions fainting and waiting for orders and insemination. That reads more like some dogmom’s franzia fueled sex fantasy than authentically trad.

    Also outside the middle east or guatemala there are typically a few years to fill between birth and motherhood, right? Sport is usually a more constructive alternative for single girls than gossip magazines or becoming greta thunberg.

    Sport is usually a more constructive alternative for single girls than gossip magazines or becoming greta thunberg.

    Absolutely!

    I was my wife’s first and only boyfriend. Between her studying, her work (babysitting at the church next to the university and occasional catalog modeling), and the intense demands of her sport (getting up at 5 am to train, no alcohol/partying during competition season), she didn’t have the time or energy to do stupid (and/or immoral) things.

    We met via a Campus Crusade for Christ event. And then as soon as she graduated, we married.

    Sports are a fine way to occupy the restless young body, male or female. Otherwise, young minds dream up much more self-destructive things to do with their bodies.

  57. @Anonymousse
    Watching women women punch each other for entertainment is indeed a degenerate pastime... but have you informed nature about its stance against females in combat?

    https://youtu.be/0FRiwnN3Wv8

    It’s absolutely clear that a man is always the front line of the family’s defense, but if he’s not capable or not present it’s a woman’s duty to protect children with any weapon she’s capable of wielding. Not to mention her own life and honor (quaint concept that now is!).

    Of course this is not an ideal situation but today’s world is hardly an ideal place. The standard of behavior you’re proposing might have been sustainable in a civilized european country... but have you set foot in a big city public school in the last couple decades?

    The standard of behavior you’re proposing might have been sustainable in a civilized european country…

    Even then and there, some gentle ladies carried small pistols to ward off would be robbers and rapists.

    And as soon as Jiu-Jitsu became known in Europe…

    • Replies: @Richard P

    Even then and there, some gentle ladies carried small pistols to ward off would be robbers and rapists.
     
    The Derringer was the gun of choice.
  58. anon[398] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jay Fink
    All those destructive messages seem to be working as I see more masculine women (from tomboy to butch) today than ever before.

    All those destructive messages seem to be working as I see more masculine women (from tomboy to butch) today than ever before.

    Some of that is just feminism working through the polity. We really do at least in part wear our life on our face, so when you have women that have been raised since they were little girls to act like “one of the guys” it eventually shows. There could well be other effects, though; the environment is full of chemicals that affect the endocrine system – this may be part of why testosterone levels and sperm counts have been falling for at least 20 years, in the industrialized world.

    Observably, in the last few years I’ve seen a growing number of women in America who have wider shoulders than hips. It’s more like the standard male “V” profile than the classic female “8” silhouette. Maybe it is just sample error on my part, but there it is.

  59. @Anonymousse
    Watching women women punch each other for entertainment is indeed a degenerate pastime... but have you informed nature about its stance against females in combat?

    https://youtu.be/0FRiwnN3Wv8

    It’s absolutely clear that a man is always the front line of the family’s defense, but if he’s not capable or not present it’s a woman’s duty to protect children with any weapon she’s capable of wielding. Not to mention her own life and honor (quaint concept that now is!).

    Of course this is not an ideal situation but today’s world is hardly an ideal place. The standard of behavior you’re proposing might have been sustainable in a civilized european country... but have you set foot in a big city public school in the last couple decades?

    Watching women women punch each other for entertainment is indeed a degenerate pastime… but have you informed nature about its stance against females in combat?

    Lol. All bear sows are “single mothers”, dude. Your analogy is totally broken.

  60. @Anonymousse
    Are you sure you’re not just trolling? I’m a little suspicious of the sincerity of this Andrew Anglin tier “women should only bake cookies and nurse babies, amirite my fellow right wingers?”

    Even the most submissive, obedient, and feminine wife doesn’t sit around on cushions fainting and waiting for orders and insemination. That reads more like some dogmom’s franzia fueled sex fantasy than authentically trad.

    Also outside the middle east or guatemala there are typically a few years to fill between birth and motherhood, right? Sport is usually a more constructive alternative for single girls than gossip magazines or becoming greta thunberg.

    Well the problem is that it is advisable to give birth to all your children before 30, for health reasons, or at least that is what our boomer and gen x parents say. Now if a female graduates at 22 or 23 from college, plus you add the 2 or 3 years courtship before marriage, and add the recommend every other year or once every three years proped spacing between children, and if you do the math, then she is not going to give birth to all of her children before 30, add cases where a female may want to complete her finance or economics masters, law degree, cfa, or MD first, and fully establishing their careers, before marrying, and you have highly educated 125ish IQ women delaying their first chilbirth into their mid-30s at least.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    There is no stronger correlation with fertility than the inverse one it has with educational attainment. It's true both within countries and between them.
  61. @Twinkie

    The standard of behavior you’re proposing might have been sustainable in a civilized european country…
     
    Even then and there, some gentle ladies carried small pistols to ward off would be robbers and rapists.

    And as soon as Jiu-Jitsu became known in Europe...

    https://66.media.tumblr.com/f890e0c2718d002d48e5245d6cc6c9fd/tumblr_pgg82x10Zx1ueapts_400.jpg

    Even then and there, some gentle ladies carried small pistols to ward off would be robbers and rapists.

    The Derringer was the gun of choice.

    • Replies: @anon
    The Derringer was the gun of choice.

    What place and time are you referring to? Be specific.
  62. @Richard P

    Even then and there, some gentle ladies carried small pistols to ward off would be robbers and rapists.
     
    The Derringer was the gun of choice.

    The Derringer was the gun of choice.

    What place and time are you referring to? Be specific.

  63. @Twinkie

    Women are not valued for their toughness
     
    I’m guessing you are neither married nor have children, especially daughters. Toughness and grit are not the same as “butch.” And certain quarters of America have always valued gritty wives and mothers. A woman can be beautiful and alluring, yet tough and gritty.

    You’ve swallowed some Hollywood/HBO feminist agitprop
     
    You have no clue about me, do you?

    “E tan e epi tas” isn’t from Hollywood.

    My wife is as feminine and graceful as they come, and she grew up playing with dolls and dressing up as well as playing sports and hunting with her father and brothers. She was a high level athlete at the Ivy alma mater where she and I met. She’s exceptionally adventurous and competitive. She and I almost drowned trying to out-swim each other in the ocean and nearly broke our necks mountain-bicycling down a wooded mountain at full speed.

    She and I are obedient Catholics and have a large family, and she unquestioningly accepts my authority over the family as its spiritual leader (the flip side is that I unfailingly sacrifice for her and my family - I don’t live for me, I live for them).

    I’m guessing you are neither married nor have children, especially daughters. Toughness and grit are not the same as “butch.” And certain quarters of America have always valued gritty wives and mothers. A woman can be beautiful and alluring, yet tough and gritty.

    It’s funny how “tough but feminine” is only a virtue for women. If you had a son who played football but also made pretty dresses that he wore around the house, you wouldn’t defend his behavior. You wouldn’t say that a man can be both feminine and masculine, using your son as an example. You would see it as a perversion and scold him for it. You only make an exception for your daughters because you know they’ll be out in the world one day and you won’t be able to coordinate your desire to protect them with their free choices. This “tough girl” crap is an adaptation to feminism. No woman anywhere, at any time, including the Old West, has been shamed for lacking toughness.

    “E tan e epi tas” isn’t from Hollywood.

    Out of context. I meant your idea that in the Old West human nature was different. Women were not called “lily-livered cowards” in the American West because men did not care if women could tame bulls and win gunfights. When a character trait is valued, people are pushed to develop that trait. People who lack that trait are shamed. Women are not shamed for being soft. It simply doesn’t happen.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    It’s funny how “tough but feminine” is only a virtue for women. If you had a son who played football but also made pretty dresses that he wore around the house, you wouldn’t defend his behavior. You wouldn’t say that a man can be both feminine and masculine, using your son as an example.
     
    My oldest son is a nationally-ranked Judoka and Jiu-Jitsu competitor, and he has been extremely tough even as a baby (I dropped him once, head-first, onto a hard wooden table, and he only cried for about 15 seconds and stopped). His coaches marvel at his tenacity - "He just doesn't break" is how they describe him. He is also a very kind and considerate person, a gentle soul. Those are usually described as "feminine" traits, but I absolutely would - and do - "defend his behavior."

    This “tough girl” crap is an adaptation to feminism. No woman anywhere, at any time, including the Old West, has been shamed for lacking toughness.
     
    Just as courage is a universally admired trait, be it found among men or women, so is cowardice disparaged in both sexes. It's just that the contexts are different. You might not know very many mothers, so this might come as a surprise to you, but if her infant son is about to be devoured by a wolf and a mother was cowardly, that is, she ran away in fear of bodily harm and left her son to be torn to pieces instead of doing her best to protect him (courage!), she would certainly be shamed, especially by other mothers.

    Or if you want concrete examples, check out some biographies of female Christian saints. Many of them were brave and tough ladies. They are literally celebrated by the Church with feast days.

    I meant your idea that in the Old West human nature was different
     
    I never wrote such a thing. Pioneer/frontier/marcher societies breed hardy men and women. That's not Hollywood mythology - it's history.

    Both my father and my mother survived a very traumatic war as children and underwent malnutrition, deadly illnesses, and much suffering. They are some of the toughest people I have ever known. My mother is the gentlest, sweetest little old Asian lady you can imagine. But you try to hurt her grandchildren and she'll plunge a kitchen knife into you without worrying one whit about herself.

    It's human nature. When the environment is hostile and forbidding, some people crumble and die. Others, both men and women, survive and then thrive. The latter leave descendants. The former do not.
  64. @Twinkie
    Obesity and poor fitness are bad for fertility.

    Obesity and poor fitness are bad for fertility.

    How did women manage to have more children before they started playing basketball and getting bruised up in UFC matches? It’s almost like playing sports and fertility have nothing to do with each other.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    How did women manage to have more children before they started playing basketball and getting bruised up in UFC matches?
     
    They were tougher. They didn't watch TV and eat sugary food all day. They fetched water from wells (no pumps!), made food from scratch, hand-washed all the clothes and dishes, fed and handled animals, went hunting, and had to fight off occasional predators, bandits, and rapists, all the while caring for their children. Even in urban settings, the lives of most women - until quite recently in affluent countries - were full of existential struggles.

    These days, one of the first things fertility specialists recommend to their female clients is, "Try losing some weight first." Obesity - which is a result of gluttony and inactivity, except in a tiny fraction of the population with genuine physical issues - is a fertility killer.

    There is a certain Goldilocks zone for female fertility - too much privation and backbreaking labor rob fertility, but so do too much gluttony and inactivity.
  65. @Twinkie

    Men should take control of their daughters
     
    Again, you write of something about which you seem to know little. Your children are not your slaves to “control.” They are not-yet-fully-formed human beings with their own will and, eventually, autonomy. A parent’s job is to protect and nourish his children, and also to inculcate, educate, and guide them, so that they become self-reliant, productive adults who please God and contribute to their communities and nations.

    You can’t control children - they are not cattle. You try your best to shape them, and God-willing, minimize the effects of their inborn negative tendencies and cultivate their positive traits that allow them to flourish.

    Your children are not your slaves to “control.”

    You took the most restrictive meaning of the word and set up a strawman. I don’t mean control them like puppets, I mean control in the sense of having legal authority over them. During coverture, women had to get their father’s permission to marry another man or to travel. This notion that we set them free at 18 and hope for the best is a product of feminism and is taken for granted by conservatives. Raising our daughters to be apparently strong and brave (because they are never punished for cowardice and frailty) is a perversion that is a response to another perversion.

  66. @Anonymousse
    Are you sure you’re not just trolling? I’m a little suspicious of the sincerity of this Andrew Anglin tier “women should only bake cookies and nurse babies, amirite my fellow right wingers?”

    Even the most submissive, obedient, and feminine wife doesn’t sit around on cushions fainting and waiting for orders and insemination. That reads more like some dogmom’s franzia fueled sex fantasy than authentically trad.

    Also outside the middle east or guatemala there are typically a few years to fill between birth and motherhood, right? Sport is usually a more constructive alternative for single girls than gossip magazines or becoming greta thunberg.

    I’m a little suspicious of the sincerity of this Andrew Anglin tier “women should only bake cookies and nurse babies, amirite my fellow right wingers?”

    Every society until the 20th century was run by men like that. Did we learn something new in the 20th century that makes that sentiment seem quaint? Whatever we learned it wasn’t that playing sports and going to college makes women happier and have more kids.

    Even the most submissive, obedient, and feminine wife doesn’t sit around on cushions fainting and waiting for orders and insemination. That reads more like some dogmom’s franzia fueled sex fantasy than authentically trad.

    How do women fail at womanhood? Not by failing at sports, because no one cares about that. No one will tell a girl that she sucks at sports or that she’s a loser and a wimp for avoiding sports.

    Also outside the middle east or guatemala there are typically a few years to fill between birth and motherhood, right?

    The insinuation here is that making motherhood the focus of a woman’s life is somehow backwards, which is why you mention the Middle East and Guatemala. You could have made an association between those countries and transgender acceptance. Does that mean that we should give in to the leftist push for transgender acceptance because it’s not accepted in the Middle East and Guatemala? You could have used our own history as a reference point. Were were hopelessly backwards on the station of women until the 20th century? Count both of us as suspicious.

    • Troll: Anonymousse
    • Replies: @Anonymousse

    Yeah restoring christian sexual ethics and traditional patriarchal family structure is for cucks, you’re not based until you have an entire illiterate breeding harem chained nude in your basement.

    I’ve got exactly one comment thread worth of history behind me so you know I’m for real about this! Let’s all purity spiral against one another and then adopt positions that everyone potentially sympathetic (including every traditionally minded white woman) will find repellent.

    It’s really important that we become publicly more extreme than the actual literal Hitler. This will surely help advance our cause. Which I TOTALLY ALSO REALLY BELIEVE IN GUYS!
     

  67. @ScottC

    I’m guessing you are neither married nor have children, especially daughters. Toughness and grit are not the same as “butch.” And certain quarters of America have always valued gritty wives and mothers. A woman can be beautiful and alluring, yet tough and gritty.
     
    It's funny how "tough but feminine" is only a virtue for women. If you had a son who played football but also made pretty dresses that he wore around the house, you wouldn't defend his behavior. You wouldn't say that a man can be both feminine and masculine, using your son as an example. You would see it as a perversion and scold him for it. You only make an exception for your daughters because you know they'll be out in the world one day and you won't be able to coordinate your desire to protect them with their free choices. This "tough girl" crap is an adaptation to feminism. No woman anywhere, at any time, including the Old West, has been shamed for lacking toughness.

    “E tan e epi tas” isn’t from Hollywood.
     
    Out of context. I meant your idea that in the Old West human nature was different. Women were not called "lily-livered cowards" in the American West because men did not care if women could tame bulls and win gunfights. When a character trait is valued, people are pushed to develop that trait. People who lack that trait are shamed. Women are not shamed for being soft. It simply doesn't happen.

    It’s funny how “tough but feminine” is only a virtue for women. If you had a son who played football but also made pretty dresses that he wore around the house, you wouldn’t defend his behavior. You wouldn’t say that a man can be both feminine and masculine, using your son as an example.

    My oldest son is a nationally-ranked Judoka and Jiu-Jitsu competitor, and he has been extremely tough even as a baby (I dropped him once, head-first, onto a hard wooden table, and he only cried for about 15 seconds and stopped). His coaches marvel at his tenacity – “He just doesn’t break” is how they describe him. He is also a very kind and considerate person, a gentle soul. Those are usually described as “feminine” traits, but I absolutely would – and do – “defend his behavior.”

    This “tough girl” crap is an adaptation to feminism. No woman anywhere, at any time, including the Old West, has been shamed for lacking toughness.

    Just as courage is a universally admired trait, be it found among men or women, so is cowardice disparaged in both sexes. It’s just that the contexts are different. You might not know very many mothers, so this might come as a surprise to you, but if her infant son is about to be devoured by a wolf and a mother was cowardly, that is, she ran away in fear of bodily harm and left her son to be torn to pieces instead of doing her best to protect him (courage!), she would certainly be shamed, especially by other mothers.

    Or if you want concrete examples, check out some biographies of female Christian saints. Many of them were brave and tough ladies. They are literally celebrated by the Church with feast days.

    I meant your idea that in the Old West human nature was different

    I never wrote such a thing. Pioneer/frontier/marcher societies breed hardy men and women. That’s not Hollywood mythology – it’s history.

    Both my father and my mother survived a very traumatic war as children and underwent malnutrition, deadly illnesses, and much suffering. They are some of the toughest people I have ever known. My mother is the gentlest, sweetest little old Asian lady you can imagine. But you try to hurt her grandchildren and she’ll plunge a kitchen knife into you without worrying one whit about herself.

    It’s human nature. When the environment is hostile and forbidding, some people crumble and die. Others, both men and women, survive and then thrive. The latter leave descendants. The former do not.

    • Replies: @ScottC

    He is also a very kind and considerate person, a gentle soul. Those are usually described as “feminine” traits, but I absolutely would – and do – “defend his behavior.”
     
    Would you defend your son as if he did something definitely feminine like wear dresses? I don't think you would defend it like you defend your daughters taking part in a definitely masculine activity like fighting. Kindness is not definitely feminine or masculine.

    If fighting isn't a masculine activity, but (as you seem to think) a gender-neutral activity about health, fitness and humility, then nothing is masculine. There is nothing that men can do that is masculine.

    You might not know very many mothers, so this might come as a surprise to you, but if her infant son is about to be devoured by a wolf and a mother was cowardly, that is, she ran away in fear of bodily harm and left her son to be torn to pieces instead of doing her best to protect him (courage!), she would certainly be shamed, especially by other mothers.
     
    Women make a lot of noise when they are in danger for the same reason children make noise when they are injured. Both are calling to someone else to take responsibility for them. A child cries when it is injured because it is calling to an adult for help. Women scream when they are in danger to alert men. Men react instinctively when women scream for help. They don't think it's pathetic that women scream even when they're not in danger like when they scream at mice and insects. That's the way nature has programmed them to behave, so nobody is going to fault a woman for fleeing from danger. A woman who fled from an animal that attacked her child would be shamed for making a bad judgment call (taking her child to an area known to have wolves) but she would not be shamed for running away because women defer to men on instinct in dangerous scenarios. Her action would be seen as being beyond her control.

    I never wrote such a thing. Pioneer/frontier/marcher societies breed hardy men and women. That’s not Hollywood mythology – it’s history.
     
    Most women back then belonged to a church which laid out strict dress and behavioral codes per Paul's directives to women. Women weren't roaming around hunting and fighting rapists. That's feminist nonsense. Women got married early (usually introduced by relatives) and had a litter of kids by the time they were 20. They were busy raising children. The worst thing women had to worry about was dying in childbirth or their husbands dying. If anything, they relied on men for protection even more so than now.

    Steven Goldberg needs to write a sequel to Why Men Rule that debunks bogus conservative ideas about all these tough homesteading broads who were hunting buffalo on the Great Plains and fighting men.
  68. @ScottC

    I’m a little suspicious of the sincerity of this Andrew Anglin tier “women should only bake cookies and nurse babies, amirite my fellow right wingers?”
     
    Every society until the 20th century was run by men like that. Did we learn something new in the 20th century that makes that sentiment seem quaint? Whatever we learned it wasn't that playing sports and going to college makes women happier and have more kids.

    Even the most submissive, obedient, and feminine wife doesn’t sit around on cushions fainting and waiting for orders and insemination. That reads more like some dogmom’s franzia fueled sex fantasy than authentically trad.
     
    How do women fail at womanhood? Not by failing at sports, because no one cares about that. No one will tell a girl that she sucks at sports or that she's a loser and a wimp for avoiding sports.

    Also outside the middle east or guatemala there are typically a few years to fill between birth and motherhood, right?
     
    The insinuation here is that making motherhood the focus of a woman's life is somehow backwards, which is why you mention the Middle East and Guatemala. You could have made an association between those countries and transgender acceptance. Does that mean that we should give in to the leftist push for transgender acceptance because it's not accepted in the Middle East and Guatemala? You could have used our own history as a reference point. Were were hopelessly backwards on the station of women until the 20th century? Count both of us as suspicious.

    Yeah restoring christian sexual ethics and traditional patriarchal family structure is for cucks, you’re not based until you have an entire illiterate breeding harem chained nude in your basement.

    I’ve got exactly one comment thread worth of history behind me so you know I’m for real about this! Let’s all purity spiral against one another and then adopt positions that everyone potentially sympathetic (including every traditionally minded white woman) will find repellent.

    It’s really important that we become publicly more extreme than the actual literal Hitler. This will surely help advance our cause. Which I TOTALLY ALSO REALLY BELIEVE IN GUYS!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Thanks for making me realize that I was wasting my time with that troll.
  69. @ScottC

    Obesity and poor fitness are bad for fertility.
     
    How did women manage to have more children before they started playing basketball and getting bruised up in UFC matches? It's almost like playing sports and fertility have nothing to do with each other.

    How did women manage to have more children before they started playing basketball and getting bruised up in UFC matches?

    They were tougher. They didn’t watch TV and eat sugary food all day. They fetched water from wells (no pumps!), made food from scratch, hand-washed all the clothes and dishes, fed and handled animals, went hunting, and had to fight off occasional predators, bandits, and rapists, all the while caring for their children. Even in urban settings, the lives of most women – until quite recently in affluent countries – were full of existential struggles.

    These days, one of the first things fertility specialists recommend to their female clients is, “Try losing some weight first.” Obesity – which is a result of gluttony and inactivity, except in a tiny fraction of the population with genuine physical issues – is a fertility killer.

    There is a certain Goldilocks zone for female fertility – too much privation and backbreaking labor rob fertility, but so do too much gluttony and inactivity.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  70. @Anonymousse

    Yeah restoring christian sexual ethics and traditional patriarchal family structure is for cucks, you’re not based until you have an entire illiterate breeding harem chained nude in your basement.

    I’ve got exactly one comment thread worth of history behind me so you know I’m for real about this! Let’s all purity spiral against one another and then adopt positions that everyone potentially sympathetic (including every traditionally minded white woman) will find repellent.

    It’s really important that we become publicly more extreme than the actual literal Hitler. This will surely help advance our cause. Which I TOTALLY ALSO REALLY BELIEVE IN GUYS!
     

    Thanks for making me realize that I was wasting my time with that troll.

  71. @Athletic and Whitesplosive
    Your wife sounds like an exceptional woman, but do you imagine the attitude generally encouraged in organized women's sports is that they should aspire to be the obedient and loving helpmeet of their husbands? I'd say it's more often the exact opposite.

    To argue that this isn't the case because your personal experience is different is nearly as bad as saying that attending university is good for women's fertility, since your wife is fertile, and she went to University didn't she?

    do you imagine the attitude generally encouraged in organized women’s sports is that they should aspire to be the obedient and loving helpmeet of their husbands? I’d say it’s more often the exact opposite.

    Sports are not about teaching women to be loving mothers and caring wives. That’s the job of their parents, community, and the Church.

    What athletics do for young girls – indeed, for everyone – is teach universally desirable traits such as self-discipline and fortitude, to overcome adversity and physical pain and keep going. It also teaches humility (because everyone loses, eventually).

    There is also the fact that women who do sports, especially combat sports, learn very quickly that men and women are very, very different. My oldest daughter thinks she’s pretty hot stuff at Judo, but the first time she trained (for real) with her brother was a huge reality check. It looked a bit like the Andre the Giant-Wesley fight scene in “Princess Bride.” My eldest son struggled not to laugh uproariously, as my eldest daughter hung on him, desperately trying to move him.

    My daughters – all combat-sports trained – have no illusions about male-female differences.

    It’s not the female athletes who entertain “male butt-kicking female superhero” fantasies – it’s usually the fat slobs (including males) who sit on couches and watch comic book movies all day.

    • Replies: @ScottC

    My daughters – all combat-sports trained – have no illusions about male-female differences.
     
    Do they have any illusions about the differing roles of men and women?
  72. @Twinkie

    It’s funny how “tough but feminine” is only a virtue for women. If you had a son who played football but also made pretty dresses that he wore around the house, you wouldn’t defend his behavior. You wouldn’t say that a man can be both feminine and masculine, using your son as an example.
     
    My oldest son is a nationally-ranked Judoka and Jiu-Jitsu competitor, and he has been extremely tough even as a baby (I dropped him once, head-first, onto a hard wooden table, and he only cried for about 15 seconds and stopped). His coaches marvel at his tenacity - "He just doesn't break" is how they describe him. He is also a very kind and considerate person, a gentle soul. Those are usually described as "feminine" traits, but I absolutely would - and do - "defend his behavior."

    This “tough girl” crap is an adaptation to feminism. No woman anywhere, at any time, including the Old West, has been shamed for lacking toughness.
     
    Just as courage is a universally admired trait, be it found among men or women, so is cowardice disparaged in both sexes. It's just that the contexts are different. You might not know very many mothers, so this might come as a surprise to you, but if her infant son is about to be devoured by a wolf and a mother was cowardly, that is, she ran away in fear of bodily harm and left her son to be torn to pieces instead of doing her best to protect him (courage!), she would certainly be shamed, especially by other mothers.

    Or if you want concrete examples, check out some biographies of female Christian saints. Many of them were brave and tough ladies. They are literally celebrated by the Church with feast days.

    I meant your idea that in the Old West human nature was different
     
    I never wrote such a thing. Pioneer/frontier/marcher societies breed hardy men and women. That's not Hollywood mythology - it's history.

    Both my father and my mother survived a very traumatic war as children and underwent malnutrition, deadly illnesses, and much suffering. They are some of the toughest people I have ever known. My mother is the gentlest, sweetest little old Asian lady you can imagine. But you try to hurt her grandchildren and she'll plunge a kitchen knife into you without worrying one whit about herself.

    It's human nature. When the environment is hostile and forbidding, some people crumble and die. Others, both men and women, survive and then thrive. The latter leave descendants. The former do not.

    He is also a very kind and considerate person, a gentle soul. Those are usually described as “feminine” traits, but I absolutely would – and do – “defend his behavior.”

    Would you defend your son as if he did something definitely feminine like wear dresses? I don’t think you would defend it like you defend your daughters taking part in a definitely masculine activity like fighting. Kindness is not definitely feminine or masculine.

    If fighting isn’t a masculine activity, but (as you seem to think) a gender-neutral activity about health, fitness and humility, then nothing is masculine. There is nothing that men can do that is masculine.

    You might not know very many mothers, so this might come as a surprise to you, but if her infant son is about to be devoured by a wolf and a mother was cowardly, that is, she ran away in fear of bodily harm and left her son to be torn to pieces instead of doing her best to protect him (courage!), she would certainly be shamed, especially by other mothers.

    Women make a lot of noise when they are in danger for the same reason children make noise when they are injured. Both are calling to someone else to take responsibility for them. A child cries when it is injured because it is calling to an adult for help. Women scream when they are in danger to alert men. Men react instinctively when women scream for help. They don’t think it’s pathetic that women scream even when they’re not in danger like when they scream at mice and insects. That’s the way nature has programmed them to behave, so nobody is going to fault a woman for fleeing from danger. A woman who fled from an animal that attacked her child would be shamed for making a bad judgment call (taking her child to an area known to have wolves) but she would not be shamed for running away because women defer to men on instinct in dangerous scenarios. Her action would be seen as being beyond her control.

    I never wrote such a thing. Pioneer/frontier/marcher societies breed hardy men and women. That’s not Hollywood mythology – it’s history.

    Most women back then belonged to a church which laid out strict dress and behavioral codes per Paul’s directives to women. Women weren’t roaming around hunting and fighting rapists. That’s feminist nonsense. Women got married early (usually introduced by relatives) and had a litter of kids by the time they were 20. They were busy raising children. The worst thing women had to worry about was dying in childbirth or their husbands dying. If anything, they relied on men for protection even more so than now.

    Steven Goldberg needs to write a sequel to Why Men Rule that debunks bogus conservative ideas about all these tough homesteading broads who were hunting buffalo on the Great Plains and fighting men.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Would you defend your son as if he did something definitely feminine like wear dresses?
     
    Don't be an idiot. I would not "defend" that anymore than my daughters dressing like men.

    Kindness is not definitely feminine or masculine.
     
    Neither is courage or cowardice.

    masculine activity like fighting
     
    Combat sports are SPORTS that simulate some aspect of combat (as do some non-combat sports). They are not fighting.

    A woman who fled from an animal that attacked her child would be shamed for making a bad judgment call (taking her child to an area known to have wolves) but she would not be shamed for running away because women defer to men on instinct in dangerous scenarios. Her action would be seen as being beyond her control.
     
    Women are weaker than men, so men are the first line of defense. Read that again. FIRST LINE. Not the only line. Historically, when things got desperate, even women joined in fighting. For example, in ancient times, field battles, being "expeditionary," were the exclusive preserve of men, but in sieges, women took part in combat as defenders regularly (Pyrrhus of Epirus allegedly died while besieging a city when an old woman threw a roof tile down at him and broke his spine).

    If you think that a mother who abandons her infant under attack from a wild animal wouldn't be looked at askance by other mothers, you don't know many mothers. Again, I suspect you are neither married nor have children.

    tough homesteading broads who were hunting buffalo on the Great Plains and fighting men.
     
    Stop with these moronic straw men. Women usually hunted small game closer to home and they didn't go out looking to fight men, but they had to when their husbands were away hunting or trading, and other men paid an unwanted visit.
  73. @Twinkie

    do you imagine the attitude generally encouraged in organized women’s sports is that they should aspire to be the obedient and loving helpmeet of their husbands? I’d say it’s more often the exact opposite.
     
    Sports are not about teaching women to be loving mothers and caring wives. That's the job of their parents, community, and the Church.

    What athletics do for young girls - indeed, for everyone - is teach universally desirable traits such as self-discipline and fortitude, to overcome adversity and physical pain and keep going. It also teaches humility (because everyone loses, eventually).

    There is also the fact that women who do sports, especially combat sports, learn very quickly that men and women are very, very different. My oldest daughter thinks she's pretty hot stuff at Judo, but the first time she trained (for real) with her brother was a huge reality check. It looked a bit like the Andre the Giant-Wesley fight scene in "Princess Bride." My eldest son struggled not to laugh uproariously, as my eldest daughter hung on him, desperately trying to move him.

    My daughters - all combat-sports trained - have no illusions about male-female differences.

    It's not the female athletes who entertain "male butt-kicking female superhero" fantasies - it's usually the fat slobs (including males) who sit on couches and watch comic book movies all day.

    My daughters – all combat-sports trained – have no illusions about male-female differences.

    Do they have any illusions about the differing roles of men and women?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Do they have any illusions about the differing roles of men and women?
     
    No. They know that wives ought to obey their husbands as the Church obeyed Christ and that husbands should sacrifice for the family as Christ sacrificed for the Church.

    They know full well obedience is the better deal than sacrifice.

    Aside from combat sports, my girls do ballet and tap, sing, and ride horses, English style (I also have one that is a successful competitive runner). They also hunt and shoot (occasionally). My wife and I also taught them how to do basic trauma care, including the use of Israeli bandages for knife and gunshot wounds.

    All my children learn how to handle dogs and horses, and take care of bunnies, chickens, and goats. I teach them basic land navigation, Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Kali (Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) for the older ones permitted to carry pocket knives, and basic wilderness survival. The boys belong to the local ranger troop (broke away from the Scouts a while back) and the girls to American Heritage Girls (that also reinforce some of what I teach, including hunting, fishing, and shooting).

    My wife and I can do all this, because we homeschool.

    Any other question?

    I have a question of my own. Are you married? Have children?
  74. @ScottC

    He is also a very kind and considerate person, a gentle soul. Those are usually described as “feminine” traits, but I absolutely would – and do – “defend his behavior.”
     
    Would you defend your son as if he did something definitely feminine like wear dresses? I don't think you would defend it like you defend your daughters taking part in a definitely masculine activity like fighting. Kindness is not definitely feminine or masculine.

    If fighting isn't a masculine activity, but (as you seem to think) a gender-neutral activity about health, fitness and humility, then nothing is masculine. There is nothing that men can do that is masculine.

    You might not know very many mothers, so this might come as a surprise to you, but if her infant son is about to be devoured by a wolf and a mother was cowardly, that is, she ran away in fear of bodily harm and left her son to be torn to pieces instead of doing her best to protect him (courage!), she would certainly be shamed, especially by other mothers.
     
    Women make a lot of noise when they are in danger for the same reason children make noise when they are injured. Both are calling to someone else to take responsibility for them. A child cries when it is injured because it is calling to an adult for help. Women scream when they are in danger to alert men. Men react instinctively when women scream for help. They don't think it's pathetic that women scream even when they're not in danger like when they scream at mice and insects. That's the way nature has programmed them to behave, so nobody is going to fault a woman for fleeing from danger. A woman who fled from an animal that attacked her child would be shamed for making a bad judgment call (taking her child to an area known to have wolves) but she would not be shamed for running away because women defer to men on instinct in dangerous scenarios. Her action would be seen as being beyond her control.

    I never wrote such a thing. Pioneer/frontier/marcher societies breed hardy men and women. That’s not Hollywood mythology – it’s history.
     
    Most women back then belonged to a church which laid out strict dress and behavioral codes per Paul's directives to women. Women weren't roaming around hunting and fighting rapists. That's feminist nonsense. Women got married early (usually introduced by relatives) and had a litter of kids by the time they were 20. They were busy raising children. The worst thing women had to worry about was dying in childbirth or their husbands dying. If anything, they relied on men for protection even more so than now.

    Steven Goldberg needs to write a sequel to Why Men Rule that debunks bogus conservative ideas about all these tough homesteading broads who were hunting buffalo on the Great Plains and fighting men.

    Would you defend your son as if he did something definitely feminine like wear dresses?

    Don’t be an idiot. I would not “defend” that anymore than my daughters dressing like men.

    Kindness is not definitely feminine or masculine.

    Neither is courage or cowardice.

    masculine activity like fighting

    Combat sports are SPORTS that simulate some aspect of combat (as do some non-combat sports). They are not fighting.

    A woman who fled from an animal that attacked her child would be shamed for making a bad judgment call (taking her child to an area known to have wolves) but she would not be shamed for running away because women defer to men on instinct in dangerous scenarios. Her action would be seen as being beyond her control.

    Women are weaker than men, so men are the first line of defense. Read that again. FIRST LINE. Not the only line. Historically, when things got desperate, even women joined in fighting. For example, in ancient times, field battles, being “expeditionary,” were the exclusive preserve of men, but in sieges, women took part in combat as defenders regularly (Pyrrhus of Epirus allegedly died while besieging a city when an old woman threw a roof tile down at him and broke his spine).

    If you think that a mother who abandons her infant under attack from a wild animal wouldn’t be looked at askance by other mothers, you don’t know many mothers. Again, I suspect you are neither married nor have children.

    tough homesteading broads who were hunting buffalo on the Great Plains and fighting men.

    Stop with these moronic straw men. Women usually hunted small game closer to home and they didn’t go out looking to fight men, but they had to when their husbands were away hunting or trading, and other men paid an unwanted visit.

    • Replies: @ScottC

    Neither is courage or cowardice.
     
    Then why are women never called cowards? Even if you can find a few examples of this, 99.9% of the time that word is flung at men. Courage is a masculine trait because it involves risk-taking. Men had to take life-threatening risks to create civilization.

    Combat sports are SPORTS that simulate some aspect of combat (as do some non-combat sports). They are not fighting.
     
    Okay, so let's return to the OP. Why are we protecting an activity for women that you admit simulates combat (i.e. it's not a gender-neutral activity aimed primarily at fitness but an activity that helps to develop the characteristic to prepare players for actual combat) from men posing as women? Why are we raising our girls to be like boys?

    Women are weaker than men, so men are the first line of defense. Read that again. FIRST LINE.
     
    No, it's because women give birth. If 90% of the men die in a war, the survivors can impregnate hundreds, if not thousands, of women and replenish the population (this is what happened in Germany after WW2). If women fought in historical battles the human race would have died out. There is no second line of defense. If the men are overcome in a battle the women submit to the conquerors. Steppe women didn't fight Genghis Khan after he slaughtered their men.

    (Pyrrhus of Epirus allegedly died while besieging a city when an old woman threw a roof tile down at him and broke his spine).
     
    Old women aren't raped by invaders. They are of no use to them even as slaves.

    If you think that a mother who abandons her infant under attack from a wild animal wouldn’t be looked at askance by other mothers, you don’t know many mothers.
     
    Women might look askance at another woman who fled in fear from a creature or person that was harming her child because women would imagine what they would do in that scenario. They feel that they would do something, but actually being in that situation they would feel differently. Women can't see past their own feelings, so you might be right. Men would never call the woman a coward because they would expect this from her.
  75. @ScottC

    My daughters – all combat-sports trained – have no illusions about male-female differences.
     
    Do they have any illusions about the differing roles of men and women?

    Do they have any illusions about the differing roles of men and women?

    No. They know that wives ought to obey their husbands as the Church obeyed Christ and that husbands should sacrifice for the family as Christ sacrificed for the Church.

    They know full well obedience is the better deal than sacrifice.

    Aside from combat sports, my girls do ballet and tap, sing, and ride horses, English style (I also have one that is a successful competitive runner). They also hunt and shoot (occasionally). My wife and I also taught them how to do basic trauma care, including the use of Israeli bandages for knife and gunshot wounds.

    All my children learn how to handle dogs and horses, and take care of bunnies, chickens, and goats. I teach them basic land navigation, Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Kali (Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) for the older ones permitted to carry pocket knives, and basic wilderness survival. The boys belong to the local ranger troop (broke away from the Scouts a while back) and the girls to American Heritage Girls (that also reinforce some of what I teach, including hunting, fishing, and shooting).

    My wife and I can do all this, because we homeschool.

    Any other question?

    I have a question of my own. Are you married? Have children?

    • Replies: @ScottC

    I have a question of my own. Are you married? Have children?
     
    No, but I know quite a few folks who find female martial artists just as deviant as boys who dress up in girl's clothing. The folks who attend the local SSPX parish aren't keen on teaching their daughters stick and knife fighting.
    , @John Regan

    Aside from combat sports, my girls do ballet and tap, sing, and ride horses, English style (I also have one that is a successful competitive runner). They also hunt and shoot (occasionally). My wife and I also taught them how to do basic trauma care, including the use of Israeli bandages for knife and gunshot wounds.

    All my children learn how to handle dogs and horses, and take care of bunnies, chickens, and goats. I teach them basic land navigation, Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Kali (Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) for the older ones permitted to carry pocket knives, and basic wilderness survival. The boys belong to the local ranger troop (broke away from the Scouts a while back) and the girls to American Heritage Girls (that also reinforce some of what I teach, including hunting, fishing, and shooting).
     

    Assuming that your strongly Catholic Ivy League-educated wife and martial artist daughters are also redheads, this gives the impression that your family consists of the protagonists from a Robert Heinlein novel somehow escaped into real life.

    Which, to be sure, sounds awesome, in the right context. But again, this lifestyle is something very, very few people will be able to (or even want to) do in real life. Therefore, I think it's a mistake to hold it up as a model or ideal for most Americans. The vast majority of women are neither able to excel in sharpshooting and Filipino knife-fighting, nor desirous of doing so. Spending the equivalent time on more traditionally feminine pursuits will be a source alike of greater utility and greater happiness for them.

  76. @Twinkie

    Would you defend your son as if he did something definitely feminine like wear dresses?
     
    Don't be an idiot. I would not "defend" that anymore than my daughters dressing like men.

    Kindness is not definitely feminine or masculine.
     
    Neither is courage or cowardice.

    masculine activity like fighting
     
    Combat sports are SPORTS that simulate some aspect of combat (as do some non-combat sports). They are not fighting.

    A woman who fled from an animal that attacked her child would be shamed for making a bad judgment call (taking her child to an area known to have wolves) but she would not be shamed for running away because women defer to men on instinct in dangerous scenarios. Her action would be seen as being beyond her control.
     
    Women are weaker than men, so men are the first line of defense. Read that again. FIRST LINE. Not the only line. Historically, when things got desperate, even women joined in fighting. For example, in ancient times, field battles, being "expeditionary," were the exclusive preserve of men, but in sieges, women took part in combat as defenders regularly (Pyrrhus of Epirus allegedly died while besieging a city when an old woman threw a roof tile down at him and broke his spine).

    If you think that a mother who abandons her infant under attack from a wild animal wouldn't be looked at askance by other mothers, you don't know many mothers. Again, I suspect you are neither married nor have children.

    tough homesteading broads who were hunting buffalo on the Great Plains and fighting men.
     
    Stop with these moronic straw men. Women usually hunted small game closer to home and they didn't go out looking to fight men, but they had to when their husbands were away hunting or trading, and other men paid an unwanted visit.

    Neither is courage or cowardice.

    Then why are women never called cowards? Even if you can find a few examples of this, 99.9% of the time that word is flung at men. Courage is a masculine trait because it involves risk-taking. Men had to take life-threatening risks to create civilization.

    Combat sports are SPORTS that simulate some aspect of combat (as do some non-combat sports). They are not fighting.

    Okay, so let’s return to the OP. Why are we protecting an activity for women that you admit simulates combat (i.e. it’s not a gender-neutral activity aimed primarily at fitness but an activity that helps to develop the characteristic to prepare players for actual combat) from men posing as women? Why are we raising our girls to be like boys?

    Women are weaker than men, so men are the first line of defense. Read that again. FIRST LINE.

    No, it’s because women give birth. If 90% of the men die in a war, the survivors can impregnate hundreds, if not thousands, of women and replenish the population (this is what happened in Germany after WW2). If women fought in historical battles the human race would have died out. There is no second line of defense. If the men are overcome in a battle the women submit to the conquerors. Steppe women didn’t fight Genghis Khan after he slaughtered their men.

    (Pyrrhus of Epirus allegedly died while besieging a city when an old woman threw a roof tile down at him and broke his spine).

    Old women aren’t raped by invaders. They are of no use to them even as slaves.

    If you think that a mother who abandons her infant under attack from a wild animal wouldn’t be looked at askance by other mothers, you don’t know many mothers.

    Women might look askance at another woman who fled in fear from a creature or person that was harming her child because women would imagine what they would do in that scenario. They feel that they would do something, but actually being in that situation they would feel differently. Women can’t see past their own feelings, so you might be right. Men would never call the woman a coward because they would expect this from her.

  77. @Twinkie

    Do they have any illusions about the differing roles of men and women?
     
    No. They know that wives ought to obey their husbands as the Church obeyed Christ and that husbands should sacrifice for the family as Christ sacrificed for the Church.

    They know full well obedience is the better deal than sacrifice.

    Aside from combat sports, my girls do ballet and tap, sing, and ride horses, English style (I also have one that is a successful competitive runner). They also hunt and shoot (occasionally). My wife and I also taught them how to do basic trauma care, including the use of Israeli bandages for knife and gunshot wounds.

    All my children learn how to handle dogs and horses, and take care of bunnies, chickens, and goats. I teach them basic land navigation, Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Kali (Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) for the older ones permitted to carry pocket knives, and basic wilderness survival. The boys belong to the local ranger troop (broke away from the Scouts a while back) and the girls to American Heritage Girls (that also reinforce some of what I teach, including hunting, fishing, and shooting).

    My wife and I can do all this, because we homeschool.

    Any other question?

    I have a question of my own. Are you married? Have children?

    I have a question of my own. Are you married? Have children?

    No, but I know quite a few folks who find female martial artists just as deviant as boys who dress up in girl’s clothing. The folks who attend the local SSPX parish aren’t keen on teaching their daughters stick and knife fighting.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    No
     
    Get back to me when you have a wife and some daughters.

    We’ll see if you want to teach your women to defend themselves or curl up and cry while a home invader rapes them.
  78. @Twinkie

    It’s really messed up that there exist female combat sports.
     
    So, you have a problem with women doing Judo?

    All my girls do Judo and Jiujitsu.

    What's wrong with them competing against other girls?

    In any semi-sane society, it is beneath a woman’s dignity to fight, even stylized fighting such as judo or wrestling. There are other more “ladylike” ways to exercise to maintain physical fitness.

    • Agree: ScottC
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    In any semi-sane society, it is beneath a woman’s dignity to fight, even stylized fighting such as judo or wrestling.
     
    I guess that makes Japan and South Korea not quite semi-sane with their very high participation rates in Judo and Tae Kwon Do, respectively, for girls.

    Somehow they seem to manage to have more traditional (“semi-sane”) sex roles. And no homosexual “marriage” and trans rights either.
  79. @Audacious Epigone
    I recently watched the famous "Morning in America" Reagan campaign ad. It's from a different galaxy.

    Z-man noted in his blog that that ad was all about money–that’s one of the most astute observations that I’ve ever heard.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    Indeed, but in the context of it facilitating family formation and community building. The backdrop wouldn't be the same today--if anything, it would be about prosperity for the sake of self-actualization, travelling, etc.
  80. @ScottC

    I have a question of my own. Are you married? Have children?
     
    No, but I know quite a few folks who find female martial artists just as deviant as boys who dress up in girl's clothing. The folks who attend the local SSPX parish aren't keen on teaching their daughters stick and knife fighting.

    No

    Get back to me when you have a wife and some daughters.

    We’ll see if you want to teach your women to defend themselves or curl up and cry while a home invader rapes them.

    • Replies: @ScottC

    We’ll see if you want to teach your women to defend themselves or curl up and cry while a home invader rapes them.
     
    If I was a father I'd be more concerned about my daughter turning into an overmedicated slut like Mikhaila Peterson than being raped because she doesn't know judo. Statistically speaking, rape happens very seldom and when it does happen it happens when the woman is in a compromised state where fighting expertise isn't of use. (You can't hip toss someone when you're passed out drunk at a house party.)

    Instead of imposing boundaries on women, men teach them martial arts as a misguided way of extending physical protection to them when they can't provide it directly. But that only gives women a false sense of confidence. Like you said, martial arts is next to useless against a man, as your eldest daughter found out when she threw down with her brother. It's next to useless when you're drunk or when you're fighting off multiple attackers.

    Fathers need to impose boundaries on women, not embolden them by taking them to judo practice and telling them to be strong and brave. Tell them in no uncertain terms to avoid house parties, alcohol and bars, and that they'll be disowned if they conceive out of wedlock or have an abortion. And ffs, stop praising your daughter for graduating from university! The last thing society needs is more women with college degrees. All that's done is lower wages and the birth rate.
  81. @Diversity Heretic
    In any semi-sane society, it is beneath a woman's dignity to fight, even stylized fighting such as judo or wrestling. There are other more "ladylike" ways to exercise to maintain physical fitness.

    In any semi-sane society, it is beneath a woman’s dignity to fight, even stylized fighting such as judo or wrestling.

    I guess that makes Japan and South Korea not quite semi-sane with their very high participation rates in Judo and Tae Kwon Do, respectively, for girls.

    Somehow they seem to manage to have more traditional (“semi-sane”) sex roles. And no homosexual “marriage” and trans rights either.

  82. @Twinkie

    No
     
    Get back to me when you have a wife and some daughters.

    We’ll see if you want to teach your women to defend themselves or curl up and cry while a home invader rapes them.

    We’ll see if you want to teach your women to defend themselves or curl up and cry while a home invader rapes them.

    If I was a father I’d be more concerned about my daughter turning into an overmedicated slut like Mikhaila Peterson than being raped because she doesn’t know judo. Statistically speaking, rape happens very seldom and when it does happen it happens when the woman is in a compromised state where fighting expertise isn’t of use. (You can’t hip toss someone when you’re passed out drunk at a house party.)

    Instead of imposing boundaries on women, men teach them martial arts as a misguided way of extending physical protection to them when they can’t provide it directly. But that only gives women a false sense of confidence. Like you said, martial arts is next to useless against a man, as your eldest daughter found out when she threw down with her brother. It’s next to useless when you’re drunk or when you’re fighting off multiple attackers.

    Fathers need to impose boundaries on women, not embolden them by taking them to judo practice and telling them to be strong and brave. Tell them in no uncertain terms to avoid house parties, alcohol and bars, and that they’ll be disowned if they conceive out of wedlock or have an abortion. And ffs, stop praising your daughter for graduating from university! The last thing society needs is more women with college degrees. All that’s done is lower wages and the birth rate.

    • Agree: John Regan
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Like you said, martial arts is next to useless against a man, as your eldest daughter found out when she threw down with her brother.
     
    Not what I wrote. My eldest son is an elite junior combat athlete. He can probably beat 95% of grown men in a fight. He tosses men who outweigh him by 40-50 lbs. on their heads in practice. When he turns 18, I expect that percentage to jump to 99%.

    If I was a father
     
    If.

    Fatherhood is something you have to experience. I suggest you wait until you are one to make pronouncements on what fathers ought to do with daughters. Because you come off like a clueless idiot otherwise.

    I’d be more concerned
     
    You can’t multitask? If she is busy training, she isn’t going to house parties and drinking alcohol.

    You strike me as an incel troll, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and link to what I wrote about women beating men in a fight: http://www.unz.com/isteve/teachers-and-guns/#comment-2225027
  83. @ScottC

    We’ll see if you want to teach your women to defend themselves or curl up and cry while a home invader rapes them.
     
    If I was a father I'd be more concerned about my daughter turning into an overmedicated slut like Mikhaila Peterson than being raped because she doesn't know judo. Statistically speaking, rape happens very seldom and when it does happen it happens when the woman is in a compromised state where fighting expertise isn't of use. (You can't hip toss someone when you're passed out drunk at a house party.)

    Instead of imposing boundaries on women, men teach them martial arts as a misguided way of extending physical protection to them when they can't provide it directly. But that only gives women a false sense of confidence. Like you said, martial arts is next to useless against a man, as your eldest daughter found out when she threw down with her brother. It's next to useless when you're drunk or when you're fighting off multiple attackers.

    Fathers need to impose boundaries on women, not embolden them by taking them to judo practice and telling them to be strong and brave. Tell them in no uncertain terms to avoid house parties, alcohol and bars, and that they'll be disowned if they conceive out of wedlock or have an abortion. And ffs, stop praising your daughter for graduating from university! The last thing society needs is more women with college degrees. All that's done is lower wages and the birth rate.

    Like you said, martial arts is next to useless against a man, as your eldest daughter found out when she threw down with her brother.

    Not what I wrote. My eldest son is an elite junior combat athlete. He can probably beat 95% of grown men in a fight. He tosses men who outweigh him by 40-50 lbs. on their heads in practice. When he turns 18, I expect that percentage to jump to 99%.

    If I was a father

    If.

    Fatherhood is something you have to experience. I suggest you wait until you are one to make pronouncements on what fathers ought to do with daughters. Because you come off like a clueless idiot otherwise.

    I’d be more concerned

    You can’t multitask? If she is busy training, she isn’t going to house parties and drinking alcohol.

    You strike me as an incel troll, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and link to what I wrote about women beating men in a fight: http://www.unz.com/isteve/teachers-and-guns/#comment-2225027

    • Replies: @ScottC

    You can’t multitask? If she is busy training, she isn’t going to house parties and drinking alcohol.
     
    If Jon Jones had time to get drunk and crash his car then so can a woman who trains recreationally. Women don't do this stuff because they have tons of free time on their hands, they do it because no one they respect has told them that it is wrong to do it, and what's more, because no one in their life holds them accountable for doing it. Girls who get piss drunk at college house parties know that their parents will never hold them accountable for anything. They act like girls have no agency, but set them loose on university campuses when they turn 18. These girls go through life with a tremendous sense of entitlement and invulnerability bolstered by kid glove parenting and a culture that tells women they are strong, independent and brave, but never weak and cowardly, so they can only succeed and never fail.

    Only men are told that they have specific duties that they must fulfill on pain of emasculation. Nobody tells women that they have womanly duties that are shameful to disregard for personal goals. This is why conservatives like you who blur gender roles when it comes to women, but not men, have no ammo against trannies. You guys lost the debate before it started. If a woman's goal was motherhood, not university, a career and "being brave," and it was shameful for her to pass through her 20s without starting a family, then instead of saying "You're a man!", which is totally worthless because that's essentially how conservatives have raised their daughters, they could say "Where's your womb?" Womanhood would carry with it a specific function that trans women cannot perform. Men couldn't put a dress on, take hormone blockers and pass themselves off as women under those conditions.

    You strike me as an incel troll, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and link to what I wrote about women beating men in a fight: http://www.unz.com/isteve/teachers-and-guns/#comment-2225027
     
    Ok? Women have a low threshold for pain. When I was a kid I got girls who were bigger than me to stop attacking by pinching them. All a man has to do is inflict a small amount of pain on a woman and she will desist. A woman's impulse when attacked is to make lots of noise so that someone else - a man - will come save them. This is like a child crying in pain. They do not fight to the bitter end. It's not enough to have great technique, there is a psychological dimension to fighting that women are not designed for.

    Why is a Catholic using "incel" as a slur? Are motherhood and chastity passe in the Novus Ordo?
  84. @Twinkie

    Do they have any illusions about the differing roles of men and women?
     
    No. They know that wives ought to obey their husbands as the Church obeyed Christ and that husbands should sacrifice for the family as Christ sacrificed for the Church.

    They know full well obedience is the better deal than sacrifice.

    Aside from combat sports, my girls do ballet and tap, sing, and ride horses, English style (I also have one that is a successful competitive runner). They also hunt and shoot (occasionally). My wife and I also taught them how to do basic trauma care, including the use of Israeli bandages for knife and gunshot wounds.

    All my children learn how to handle dogs and horses, and take care of bunnies, chickens, and goats. I teach them basic land navigation, Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Kali (Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) for the older ones permitted to carry pocket knives, and basic wilderness survival. The boys belong to the local ranger troop (broke away from the Scouts a while back) and the girls to American Heritage Girls (that also reinforce some of what I teach, including hunting, fishing, and shooting).

    My wife and I can do all this, because we homeschool.

    Any other question?

    I have a question of my own. Are you married? Have children?

    Aside from combat sports, my girls do ballet and tap, sing, and ride horses, English style (I also have one that is a successful competitive runner). They also hunt and shoot (occasionally). My wife and I also taught them how to do basic trauma care, including the use of Israeli bandages for knife and gunshot wounds.

    All my children learn how to handle dogs and horses, and take care of bunnies, chickens, and goats. I teach them basic land navigation, Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Kali (Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) for the older ones permitted to carry pocket knives, and basic wilderness survival. The boys belong to the local ranger troop (broke away from the Scouts a while back) and the girls to American Heritage Girls (that also reinforce some of what I teach, including hunting, fishing, and shooting).

    Assuming that your strongly Catholic Ivy League-educated wife and martial artist daughters are also redheads, this gives the impression that your family consists of the protagonists from a Robert Heinlein novel somehow escaped into real life.

    Which, to be sure, sounds awesome, in the right context. But again, this lifestyle is something very, very few people will be able to (or even want to) do in real life. Therefore, I think it’s a mistake to hold it up as a model or ideal for most Americans. The vast majority of women are neither able to excel in sharpshooting and Filipino knife-fighting, nor desirous of doing so. Spending the equivalent time on more traditionally feminine pursuits will be a source alike of greater utility and greater happiness for them.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Therefore, I think it’s a mistake to hold it up as a model or ideal for most Americans.
     
    I didn’t. And most parents don’t homeschool either. But normal girls taking Judo or Jiu-Jitsu lessons won’t turn them into boy-wannabes and, in fact, will be positive for most of them, as is participating in American Heritage Girls (look it up if you don’t know what that is).
  85. @John Regan

    Aside from combat sports, my girls do ballet and tap, sing, and ride horses, English style (I also have one that is a successful competitive runner). They also hunt and shoot (occasionally). My wife and I also taught them how to do basic trauma care, including the use of Israeli bandages for knife and gunshot wounds.

    All my children learn how to handle dogs and horses, and take care of bunnies, chickens, and goats. I teach them basic land navigation, Judo/Jiu-Jitsu, Kali (Filipino stick-and-knife fighting) for the older ones permitted to carry pocket knives, and basic wilderness survival. The boys belong to the local ranger troop (broke away from the Scouts a while back) and the girls to American Heritage Girls (that also reinforce some of what I teach, including hunting, fishing, and shooting).
     

    Assuming that your strongly Catholic Ivy League-educated wife and martial artist daughters are also redheads, this gives the impression that your family consists of the protagonists from a Robert Heinlein novel somehow escaped into real life.

    Which, to be sure, sounds awesome, in the right context. But again, this lifestyle is something very, very few people will be able to (or even want to) do in real life. Therefore, I think it's a mistake to hold it up as a model or ideal for most Americans. The vast majority of women are neither able to excel in sharpshooting and Filipino knife-fighting, nor desirous of doing so. Spending the equivalent time on more traditionally feminine pursuits will be a source alike of greater utility and greater happiness for them.

    Therefore, I think it’s a mistake to hold it up as a model or ideal for most Americans.

    I didn’t. And most parents don’t homeschool either. But normal girls taking Judo or Jiu-Jitsu lessons won’t turn them into boy-wannabes and, in fact, will be positive for most of them, as is participating in American Heritage Girls (look it up if you don’t know what that is).

  86. @Twinkie

    Like you said, martial arts is next to useless against a man, as your eldest daughter found out when she threw down with her brother.
     
    Not what I wrote. My eldest son is an elite junior combat athlete. He can probably beat 95% of grown men in a fight. He tosses men who outweigh him by 40-50 lbs. on their heads in practice. When he turns 18, I expect that percentage to jump to 99%.

    If I was a father
     
    If.

    Fatherhood is something you have to experience. I suggest you wait until you are one to make pronouncements on what fathers ought to do with daughters. Because you come off like a clueless idiot otherwise.

    I’d be more concerned
     
    You can’t multitask? If she is busy training, she isn’t going to house parties and drinking alcohol.

    You strike me as an incel troll, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and link to what I wrote about women beating men in a fight: http://www.unz.com/isteve/teachers-and-guns/#comment-2225027

    You can’t multitask? If she is busy training, she isn’t going to house parties and drinking alcohol.

    If Jon Jones had time to get drunk and crash his car then so can a woman who trains recreationally. Women don’t do this stuff because they have tons of free time on their hands, they do it because no one they respect has told them that it is wrong to do it, and what’s more, because no one in their life holds them accountable for doing it. Girls who get piss drunk at college house parties know that their parents will never hold them accountable for anything. They act like girls have no agency, but set them loose on university campuses when they turn 18. These girls go through life with a tremendous sense of entitlement and invulnerability bolstered by kid glove parenting and a culture that tells women they are strong, independent and brave, but never weak and cowardly, so they can only succeed and never fail.

    Only men are told that they have specific duties that they must fulfill on pain of emasculation. Nobody tells women that they have womanly duties that are shameful to disregard for personal goals. This is why conservatives like you who blur gender roles when it comes to women, but not men, have no ammo against trannies. You guys lost the debate before it started. If a woman’s goal was motherhood, not university, a career and “being brave,” and it was shameful for her to pass through her 20s without starting a family, then instead of saying “You’re a man!”, which is totally worthless because that’s essentially how conservatives have raised their daughters, they could say “Where’s your womb?” Womanhood would carry with it a specific function that trans women cannot perform. Men couldn’t put a dress on, take hormone blockers and pass themselves off as women under those conditions.

    You strike me as an incel troll, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and link to what I wrote about women beating men in a fight: http://www.unz.com/isteve/teachers-and-guns/#comment-2225027

    Ok? Women have a low threshold for pain. When I was a kid I got girls who were bigger than me to stop attacking by pinching them. All a man has to do is inflict a small amount of pain on a woman and she will desist. A woman’s impulse when attacked is to make lots of noise so that someone else – a man – will come save them. This is like a child crying in pain. They do not fight to the bitter end. It’s not enough to have great technique, there is a psychological dimension to fighting that women are not designed for.

    Why is a Catholic using “incel” as a slur? Are motherhood and chastity passe in the Novus Ordo?

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    Why is a Catholic using “incel” as a slur? Are motherhood and chastity passe in the Novus Ordo?
     
    I celebrate motherhood, so you are barking up the wrong tree. And virtue - including chastity - is always voluntary. I think many people consider involuntary celibacy to be a consequence of being repellent to women, not chastity. Lastly, chastity is not limiting sex - it’s limiting sex to matrimony. God did, after all, say to be fruitful and multiply.
  87. @Ghak
    Well the problem is that it is advisable to give birth to all your children before 30, for health reasons, or at least that is what our boomer and gen x parents say. Now if a female graduates at 22 or 23 from college, plus you add the 2 or 3 years courtship before marriage, and add the recommend every other year or once every three years proped spacing between children, and if you do the math, then she is not going to give birth to all of her children before 30, add cases where a female may want to complete her finance or economics masters, law degree, cfa, or MD first, and fully establishing their careers, before marrying, and you have highly educated 125ish IQ women delaying their first chilbirth into their mid-30s at least.

    There is no stronger correlation with fertility than the inverse one it has with educational attainment. It’s true both within countries and between them.

  88. @Diversity Heretic
    Z-man noted in his blog that that ad was all about money--that's one of the most astute observations that I've ever heard.

    Indeed, but in the context of it facilitating family formation and community building. The backdrop wouldn’t be the same today–if anything, it would be about prosperity for the sake of self-actualization, travelling, etc.

  89. @ScottC

    You can’t multitask? If she is busy training, she isn’t going to house parties and drinking alcohol.
     
    If Jon Jones had time to get drunk and crash his car then so can a woman who trains recreationally. Women don't do this stuff because they have tons of free time on their hands, they do it because no one they respect has told them that it is wrong to do it, and what's more, because no one in their life holds them accountable for doing it. Girls who get piss drunk at college house parties know that their parents will never hold them accountable for anything. They act like girls have no agency, but set them loose on university campuses when they turn 18. These girls go through life with a tremendous sense of entitlement and invulnerability bolstered by kid glove parenting and a culture that tells women they are strong, independent and brave, but never weak and cowardly, so they can only succeed and never fail.

    Only men are told that they have specific duties that they must fulfill on pain of emasculation. Nobody tells women that they have womanly duties that are shameful to disregard for personal goals. This is why conservatives like you who blur gender roles when it comes to women, but not men, have no ammo against trannies. You guys lost the debate before it started. If a woman's goal was motherhood, not university, a career and "being brave," and it was shameful for her to pass through her 20s without starting a family, then instead of saying "You're a man!", which is totally worthless because that's essentially how conservatives have raised their daughters, they could say "Where's your womb?" Womanhood would carry with it a specific function that trans women cannot perform. Men couldn't put a dress on, take hormone blockers and pass themselves off as women under those conditions.

    You strike me as an incel troll, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and link to what I wrote about women beating men in a fight: http://www.unz.com/isteve/teachers-and-guns/#comment-2225027
     
    Ok? Women have a low threshold for pain. When I was a kid I got girls who were bigger than me to stop attacking by pinching them. All a man has to do is inflict a small amount of pain on a woman and she will desist. A woman's impulse when attacked is to make lots of noise so that someone else - a man - will come save them. This is like a child crying in pain. They do not fight to the bitter end. It's not enough to have great technique, there is a psychological dimension to fighting that women are not designed for.

    Why is a Catholic using "incel" as a slur? Are motherhood and chastity passe in the Novus Ordo?

    Why is a Catholic using “incel” as a slur? Are motherhood and chastity passe in the Novus Ordo?

    I celebrate motherhood, so you are barking up the wrong tree. And virtue – including chastity – is always voluntary. I think many people consider involuntary celibacy to be a consequence of being repellent to women, not chastity. Lastly, chastity is not limiting sex – it’s limiting sex to matrimony. God did, after all, say to be fruitful and multiply.

  90. For those of you who think that participation in combat sports for girls is some sort of a post-modern abomination, I’d like to note that while the ancient Spartan boys underwent agoge, Spartan girls also trained and completed in gymnastics, wrestling, javelin-hurling, and discus-throwing (and ancient Greek wrestling was extremely rough).

    Spartans thought strong girls made strong mothers and gave birth to strong men. They held such martial training for girls to be healthy both physically and mentally. And only such a mother could say “With it or upon it” to her son donning a Hoplon and departing for war.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    "With it or upon it"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-wKe0DNdhI
  91. @Twinkie
    For those of you who think that participation in combat sports for girls is some sort of a post-modern abomination, I’d like to note that while the ancient Spartan boys underwent agoge, Spartan girls also trained and completed in gymnastics, wrestling, javelin-hurling, and discus-throwing (and ancient Greek wrestling was extremely rough).

    Spartans thought strong girls made strong mothers and gave birth to strong men. They held such martial training for girls to be healthy both physically and mentally. And only such a mother could say “With it or upon it” to her son donning a Hoplon and departing for war.

    “With it or upon it”

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    Spartans were characteristically (and literally) laconic and didn’t use many words.

    The two mottos of theirs I teach my sons are:

    E tan e epi tas

    Molon labe
  92. @Audacious Epigone
    "With it or upon it"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-wKe0DNdhI

    Spartans were characteristically (and literally) laconic and didn’t use many words.

    The two mottos of theirs I teach my sons are:

    E tan e epi tas

    Molon labe

  93. Perversion isn’t new.

    This was exemplified among the Spartans in the days of their greatness; many things were managed by their women. But what difference does it make whether women rule, or the rulers are ruled by women? The result is the same. Even in regard to courage, which is of no use in daily life, and is needed only in war, the influence of the Lacedaemonian women has been most mischievous. The evil showed itself in the Theban invasion, when, unlike the women other cities, they were utterly useless and caused more confusion than the enemy. This license of the Lacedaemonian women existed from the earliest times, and was only what might be expected. For, during the wars of the Lacedaemonians, first against the Argives, and afterwards against the Arcadians and Messenians, the men were long away from home, and, on the return of peace, they gave themselves into the legislator’s hand, already prepared by the discipline of a soldier’s life (in which there are many elements of virtue), to receive his enactments. But, when Lycurgus, as tradition says, wanted to bring the women under his laws, they resisted, and he gave up the attempt. These then are the causes of what then happened, and this defect in the constitution is clearly to be attributed to them. We are not, however, considering what is or is not to be excused, but what is right or wrong, and the disorder of the women, as I have already said, not only gives an air of indecorum to the constitution considered in itself, but tends in a measure to foster avarice.

    http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/politics.2.two.html

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