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From 2008 through 2018, the GSS surveyed 814 non-citizens living in the US. Eighteen of those 814, or 2.2%, reported voting in a US presidential election during that time. The number who would have been legally permitted to have done so would of course be zero.

Maybe it’s transcription error, maybe it’s respondent confusion over voting in local contests in jurisdictions not requiring US citizenship to participate in lower level elections, maybe it’s trolls yanking interviewers’ chains–or maybe non-citizen voter fraud is a real thing.

GSS variables used: USCITZN(2), YEAR(2008-2018), PRES04, PRES08, PRES12, PRES16

• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: GSS, Politics 
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  1. From 2008 through 2018, the GSS surveyed 814 non-citizens living in the US. Eighteen of those 814, or 2.2%, reported voting in a US presidential election during that time…. maybe it’s trolls yanking interviewers’ chains–or maybe non-citizen voter fraud is a real thing.

    I’d wager that 18 is low-ball, mostly those brazen or dumb enough to admit it, and that the number is significantly higher.

    • Agree: Bill Jones
  2. @The Alarmist

    If by “significantly higher” you mean “about 1.5 orders of magnitude” I agree.

  3. This is something I do not get …
    quite literally every third world shithole has voter ID (failing that, dunking some appendix in indelible dye) but in the US a paper would violate:

    – Rugged Individualism
    – de Sibbyl Rites of the Indigent and Illiterate but not of
    – the Deceased.

    Where does anyone muster the nerve to bitch about results?

  4. After watching the absentee vote fiasco in 2000, when my vote seemed to be rejected for a lack of a postmark, I now try to plan some of my meetings in the US so I can vote in person: Even then, as I watch the good old Diebold swallow my ballot, I wonder who I really voted for. I think the US needs not only voter ID, but also paper ballots, manually counted, and voters fingers dipped in indelible purple ink.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  5. The political/legal/sovereignty/cultural issue of non-citizen voting is important and it brings up the huge numbers of foreigners and illegal aliens and resident aliens and visa foreigners in the USA.

    Many states have made it easier for non-citizens to vote by not properly policing the voting process.

    Bryan Preston from 2014:

    An election integrity watchdog group is suing the state of Maryland, alleging that it has discovered massive and ongoing fraudulent voting by non-U.S. citizens in one county. But because of the way that the non-citizens are able to cast votes in elections, the fraud is likely happening in every single county and subdivision across the state. The group believes that the illegal voting has been happening for years.

    The group, Virginia Voters Alliance, says that it compared how voters in Frederick County filled out jury duty statements compared with their voting records. The group’s investigation found that thousands of people in Frederick County who stated that they are not U.S. citizens on jury duty forms went on to cast votes in elections. Either they failed to tell the truth when they were summoned for jury duty, or they cast illegal votes. Both are crimes. The same group previously found that about 40,000 people are registered to vote in both Virginia and Maryland.

    It is a federal crime to cast votes if you are not legally eligible to vote. Non-citizens, whether in the country legally or not, are prohibited from voting in most local and all state and federal elections. Yet the VVA investigation found that hundreds of non-citizens have been voting in Frederick County, Maryland. One in seven Maryland residents are non-U.S. citizens.

    Maryland state law makes it easier for non-citizens, both those present legally and those in the country against the law, to vote. Maryland issues drivers licenses to legal and illegal aliens. Driver’s licenses in turn make it easier under the Motor Voter law to register to vote. Maryland also offers copious taxpayer-funded social programs to non-citizens in the state.

    Tweet from 2014:

  6. Non-Citizen Voting Brings Up Political Legitimacy And The Necessity Of Secessionary Separation

    Brenda Walker of VDARE has written about non-citizen voting and she brought up this bit by Hans von Spakovsky that appeared in the Wall Street Journal in 2014:

    [. . .] Unfortunately, we can’t know [the likelihood that your vote won’t count]. But one thing is almost certain: Voter fraud will occur. Many states run a rickety election process, lacking rules to deter people who are looking to take advantage of the system’s porous security. And too many groups and individuals—including the NAACP, the American Civil Liberties Union and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder —are doing everything they can to prevent states from improving the integrity of the election process.

    Their refrain is that voter fraud either doesn’t exist or is so insignificant that nothing needs to be done to improve ballot security. Yet in the U.S. Supreme Court’s 2008 ruling that upheld Indiana’s voter ID law, Justice John Paul Stevens acknowledged “flagrant examples of such fraud” throughout the nation’s history and observed that “not only is the risk of voter fraud real” but also that “it could affect the outcome of a close election.”

    Polling shows that the November general election will likely have many close races, particularly on the local level. Nothing new there. In 2014, 16 local races in Ohio were decided by one vote or through breaking a tie. In 2013, 35 local races in Ohio were that close.

    Voting by noncitizens alone could swing such races. A new study by two Old Dominion University professors, based on survey data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, found that 6.4% of all noncitizens voted illegally in the 2008 presidential election, and 2.2% voted in the 2010 midterms.

    Since 80% of noncitizens vote Democratic, according to the survey, the authors concluded that these illegal votes were “large enough to plausibly account for Democratic victories in a few close elections.” Those that might have been skewed by noncitizen votes included Al Franken ’s 312-vote win in the Minnesota race for the U.S. Senate. As a senator, Mr. Franken would cast the 60th vote needed to make ObamaCare law. [. . .]

    Tweet from 2014:

  7. And those how leftist invalidated the GSS

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  8. Ultimately though doesn’t much matter anymore, the white leftist will win if we look at immigration sentiment in America

    Make no mistake massive tens of thousands of immigrants will be arriving daily when Dems are elected

  9. Lot says:

    “ local or state contests in jurisdictions that do not require US citizenship to participate in lower level elections”

    I don’t think non-citizens can vote in any state election.

    The only case of local elections I’ve heard of are in Maryland.

    Just a guess: even in far left cities like Oakland, there may be state laws preventing this.


    Source confirms legal non-c voting is just a few local elections and banned in all 50 states for higher elections.

    Very good overview that includes even higher estimates of illegal non-citizen voting:

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Audacious Epigone
  10. Gman says:


    I know you like to talk about Bernie Sanders lack of success with older voters –
    Here’s some charts that break it down

  11. 216 says: • Website


    I hate him so much

  12. anon[197] • Disclaimer says:

    Source confirms legal non-c voting is just a few local elections and banned in all 50 states for higher elections.

    Oh, well, I guess that proves it is not happening. No one would ever break such a law. It would be as flagrant as stuffing a ballot box or entering the US without documents or permission.

    That stuff never happens, either. Because “banned”.

  13. @The Alarmist

    In California, everyone getting a driver’s license is automatically registered to vote unless they affirmatively check a box that says they are not a U.S. citizen. Illegal aliens are allowed to get licenses and a large percentage of these people either think they are supposed to claim they are citizens on the paperwork, or don’t want to admit they are not. In any event, all illegal aliens have fake SSNs to put on the mandatory I-9 work form. And anyone in CA can register to vote with a real or fake SSN.

    There is zero chance of getting caught for unauthorized voting. So the only question is how many illegals choose to vote. I actually think the percentage is not too high because they are not engaged politically. But lately the the Democrats have been investing heavily in in-person, activist vote pimps who go out and persuade Hispanics of any status to cast ballots (especially absentee that can be filled out for them).

    • Replies: @CO
  14. @216

    There will be no violence, no outrage, no resistance, just silence. We will sit here eagerly talking about the return of the white man, that Gen Z or someone will save us. Salvation will never come. Very few would risk losing everything, and those who do will be loathed by everyone else’s political opinion for disrupting the peace and will achieve nothing.

    Its 100% effectively over. Trump’s been a disaster that has pushed the country to open-borders and anti-white sentiment. Whites, especially white males, can take pride in that every institution will take vengeance upon them.

    We can only hope that our new overlords seek mercy on us (they won’t) and prosperity to America. Hail to you oh conqueres.

    The literal only hope we have is the left is so disastrous that it causes a massive backlash…..although tbh i don’t see how the American right doesn’t just become European right

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  15. nymom says:

    It is not just the actual voting of non-citizens that gives Democrats an edge in elections. It is counting non-citizens (green card holders and illegals) in our census and allowing more representation to Democratic districts than they should be entitled to for the purposes of apportionment.

    The Democrats in the South did that to the North for decades which is why the whole 3/5 rule for slaves became an issue. The South, at the time, wished to count their slaves in the census to increase the number of Representatives they held in the House and the North did not want to allow it as slaves were not allowed to vote, so it appeared to be a distortion of the process.

    The compromise was slaves could only count for 3/5 of a person for the purposes of apportionment…thus limiting the power of the Democrats in slave-holding states in the House of Representatives.

    We see, however, that some things never change and once again the Democrats are using illegals now to give themselves extra representatives in the House. It is estimated to be about 30 extra representatives now that Democrats have due to this tactic.

    So it is not just a question of the vote…

  16. Lot says:


    Noahpinion makes three basic points.

    First claim is that Trump’s immigration restrictions failed. Partly true, partly false, partly work in progress.

    Refugees program admissions are down 85%. migration from the “Muslim ban” list countries like Somalia and Yemen is down about 80%. TPS is gradually expiring. Killing the Dreamer amnesty wasn’t immediate, but will be completely dead in a few months. Other new policies are in place after a court fight.

    A larger point is we are in a huge boom with record low unemployment. Every other time this happened immigration surged. Now we have it dropping, just not as much as we like.

    So overall, he is dishonest by cherry picking datapoints to make Trump look less effective.

    The point about demographics? So what? Nobody thought Trump would instantly change things. That’s a long battle.

    President Hillary would resulted in Merkel style caravans of at least a million central Americans, with a bunch of Africans mixed in too, and amnesties and welfare for all of them.

    The point about polling? Again cherrypicking. Most Americans want less immigration, not more. Seems like a basic question, but the “more, less, about right” question on immigration levels isn’t asked much because the MSM hates the results.

    Moreover, the GOP has power above raw numbers since we are over represented in the Senate and electoral college, and vote at a higher rate. In the giant poll of the 2016 election, Hillary won by about 2.5 points. Too bad for her, that’s not how we elect the president. And we have a multidecade lock on the Supreme Court which is expanding to include the rest of the federal court system.

  17. In Chicago I showed a DL to vote and the election worker said that wasn’t necessary. So even the minimal security to vote has been short-circuited by the Democrats to allow for fraudulent voting.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Mr. Rational
  18. anon[584] • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Stalin

    In Chicago I showed a DL to vote and the election worker said that wasn’t necessary.

    Lol! You were alive, too. That’s not necessary for voting in Chicago, either.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  19. CO says:

    Substantially the same routine in Colorado. Everyone applying for a driver’s license is automatically registered to vote, unless they affirmatively opt out of the program. Proof of citizenship is not required to obtain a driver’s license. CO has mail in voting, so a ballot is automatically mailed to the address at which said driver’s license applicant registered. A non-citizen can complete the ballot and mail it back in or drop it in a drop box. There are no checks in the system to detect voter fraud.

    As if that’s not easy enough, the new Secretary of State plans to implement automatic voter registration for anyone who signs up for a government benefit. So when Juanita Valdez, here illegally from Guatemala, takes her kids in to sign up for SNAP she will automatically be registered to vote, unless she opts out, and a ballot will be mailed to her address.

    Welcome to clown world.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
  20. @Joe Stalin

    That’s because you live in Chicongo.  One state to the east, showing a DL is mandatory… at least where I live.

  21. SafeNow says:

    The only way I can add to (maybe not) the “clown world” of Colorado is at the stage of getting the driver’s license. When I recently sat for my “driving knowledge” test, the guy seated at the next computer was accompanied by his mentor, telling him the answers in loud, brazen Spanish. California, of course.

  22. @nymom

    And Drumpf folded like a cheap suit on that court case… with the “GOP” Robert’s swinging against it. Remember, the GOP supports the replacement too.

    • Replies: @nymom
  23. nymom says:

    I wouldn’t say they “support” any replacement; but, rather that they are too afraid to speak up about the issues because a career can be destroyed overnight by being tagged as a racist.

    Southern Democrats did the same thing to Northern politicians in the House in the run up to the Civil War. The South managed to get a rule passed banning any mention of slavery on the floor and Representatives were threatened with physical harm if they even attempted to bring up the subject in any way. The Southern Democrats “won” on every point of political manipulation including in the courts, similar to what they do now. The only thing they couldn’t win on was the actual war once they finally started it after closing off every avenue to settle the issue through political means.

  24. Non-citizen voting could be an excellent issue, among dozens of others, for young people to use as an example of why the legitimacy of government at all levels has been obliterated, and that legitimacy obliteration renders all government debts, at all levels, to be considered legally as ODIOUS DEBT.

    I like sovereign debt secessionism, but you would need to have massive repetitive propaganda to make that stick in the brains of the average boob. Young people would instinctively understand the valid reasoning for refusing to pay government debt when the government, at all levels, has refused to make sure that the voting process and voting procedures ensure that only eligible voters participate in American democracy.

    To repeat from a previous comment, non-citizen voting is an excellent way to explain to the public just how many tens of millions of illegal aliens and legal aliens are in the USA. Cheap labor foreigner visas and student foreigner visas and illegal alien invaders and tourist foreigner visas and all manner of other schemes that the government uses to flood the USA with foreigners.

  25. “I wouldn’t say they “support” any replacement; but, rather that they are too afraid to speak up about the issues because a career can be destroyed overnight by being tagged as a racist.”

    They would side step either reference by simply stating that the US needs “X” workers as a marketing issue — as the current executive attempted contend that we simply don’t have enough. And why the raise act makes no sense.

    According to the commentary it cuts legal immigration in half, if one ignores the amendments and set asides, exceptions and waivers still to come.

    yesterday two commenters were debating the growth or decline in manufacturing so I just took a quick look.

    ” Yet, 89% of manufacturers are leaving jobs unfilled because they can’t find qualified applicants, according to a 2018 Deloitte Institute report. The skills gap could leave 2.4 million vacant between 2018 and 2028. That could cost the industry $454 billion in 2028.”

    Why we don’t need more immigrants for manufacturing. US unemployed according to the department of numbers roughly six million.

    unless you measured and assessed the skills of those 6 million, there’s no way to determine whether there was a skills gaps and further training them isn’t a new task. We retrain and cross train people in various professions It is hard to imagine we actually need to import several hundred thousand a year to when we have such a plethora of available labor.

    No immigrants need apply

  26. @Oblivionrecurs

    One black tablet – coming right up! I know you’re just speaking your mind, O.R., and I have no arguments with your basic picture of our situation. However, of course there is a way out. Though your and my commenting back and forth on blogs right now isn’t gonna cut it, I try to do my share in real life. I haven’t had the opportunity to speak out yet in the left’s faces, but it’ll likely happen.

    Watch those videos of the “groypers” including Nick Fuentes. Yeah, he’s kind of annoying in that Millennial way and all, but he and his crowd are standing up and standing out. Imagine if people of all ages, in all the institutions, acted like Mr. Fuentes, making a concerted effort not to give a damn what names they were called and even whether their careers would suffer*. Our forefathers had their fortunes too on the line, but worse, their lives (I don’t think “sacred honor” means a lot right now).

    It’ll just take a spark. In the meantime, one can take the black tablet, like “Painless” the dentist here, and hopefully come out OK on the other side:


    * Spoiler alert, in big enough numbers, no, they won’t.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  27. @Oblivionrecurs

    I’ve recently begun to wonder if linking into the GSS every time one of these posts goes up is a good idea. I’ve decided not to do so in the future.

  28. @Lot

    Thanks, adjusted the post accordingly.

  29. @216

    Who cares? He’s just another ignorant, lying NPC.

    Fuentes has one-third as many followers and gets 100x the engagement. No one cares about Noah’s opinion.

  30. @Achmed E. Newman

    Fuentes is a zoomer, not a millennial.

    He’s too smart and too charismatic to do anything other than grow in influence from every encounter and engagement he has.

    So it is sadly clear to me that he will get the Alex Jones treatment relatively soon.

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