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GSS: Trump Voters Marginally More Intelligent Than Clinton Voters
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The 2018 iteration of the GSS is out, which means Wordsum scores by candidate vote are out, too. Mean IQ for Trump and Clinton voters as converted from Wordsum results assuming a white mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15 (N = 822):

Trump voters — 100.1
Clinton voters — 99.7

Read a book, Trumpkin! Oh, uh, well it’s de classe for whites to compare themselves to non-whites, the goodwhites who voted for Clinton can reassure themselves that they tend to have higher average IQs than Trump supporters, though. The same, this time restricted to non-Hispanic whites:

White Trump voters — 100.0
White Clinton voters — 105.5

Parenthetically, Clinton beat Trump 71%-26% among voters who were born outside of the US. But immigration has nothing–NOTHING!–to do with political power. They aren’t ringers, they’re dreamers. Dreamers! Got that, bigot?

GSS variables used: WORDSUM, BORN(1), PRES16, RACECEN1(1), HISPANIC(1)

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  1. indocon says:

    What was this for Romney-Obama? I recall it was bigger than this. Surprised Trump voters still came out ahead considering the massive movement of 5M mostly white voters to both sides.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  2. Parenthetically, Clinton beat Trump 71%-26% among voters who were born outside of the US.

    That’s worth a graphic.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  3. Priss Factor [AKA "Asagirian"] says: • Website

    I think these voters dragged down IQ for Democrats.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @SunBakedSuburb
  4. Apparently the racist pseudoscience and mismeasure of man called IQ testing mysteriously turns into good science when it comes to discrediting Trump’s white voters.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  5. neutral says:

    This can’t be, John Oliver knows everything and he is says all Trump voters are stupid and all the people that watch his show are the cleverest (and would never vote Trump).

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  6. Seth.D says:

    Can’t find AE on Twitter. Banned?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  7. Wonder how the white Clinton/Trump split would look if Ashkenazi Jews were removed? They are a high IQ group that leans heavily to Clinton. However, they may be too few to have much effect.

  8. gate666 says:

    are you really surprised that white liberals have higher IQ than white conservatives?

  9. Truth says:
    @Priss Factor

    Well actually, Old Sport, he did list the IQ for only white voters above.

    White Trump voters — 100.0
    White Clinton voters — 105.5

  10. Anon[247] • Disclaimer says:

    White Trump voters — 100.0
    White Clinton voters — 105.5

    The problem with this data is the independent variable that it implies but isn’t likely accounted for: the education of the Clinton and Trump voters.

    Education itself being a likely strong influence toward Leftist voting. Not because it imparts a more correct view of the political world, but because it is heavily marinated in Leftist and neo-communist propaganda that is designed to surpass the reasoning and emotional filters of most individuals with a 140 IQ and lower.

    I’d be interested to see the voting patterns for White people when controlled for education and socioeconomic status, or better yet for WP at 140+ IQ controlled for education and socioeconomic status.

    • Replies: @216
    , @Audacious Epigone
  11. Anon[247] • Disclaimer says:

    What I’m unsurprised over is a liberal being unable to do even rudimentary data critique on the fly. I’m unsurprised because this lack of academic skill is common for uneducated, relatively low IQ individuals and this type of silly data routinely passes for news in outlets that cater to liberals.

    Are most liberals like this?

    Rhetorical question.

  12. Parenthetically, Clinton beat Trump 71%-26% among voters who were born outside of the US. But immigration has nothing–NOTHING!–to do with political power. They aren’t ringers, they’re dreamers. Dreamers! Got that, bigot?

    Trump is now pushing for more mass legal immigration.

    Trump is pushing to give amnesty to the upwards of 30 million illegal alien invaders in the USA.

    Trump is colluding and conspiring with the Democrat Party and the Republican Party Cheap Labor Faction and Sheldon Adelson and Jared Kushner to massively increase the importation of foreigners into the USA.

    Trump is a TREASONOUS RAT who wants to flood the United States with foreigners.

    Trump is a TREASONOUS RAT who is using mass legal immigration and illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy the European Christian ancestral core of the United States of America.

    Trump is putting the interests of foreigners ahead of the interests of the citizens of the United States of America.

    I hereby challenge Treasonous Rat Trump to a debate on mass legal immigration and illegal immigration and American national identity and foreign policy.

    Trump is a TREASONOUS RAT who puts the interests of Israel ahead of the interests of the United States of America.

    This message has been brought to you by the Pewitt For President exploratory committee.

    Trump must be challenged from the Sam Francis / White Core American Patriot part of the American electorate.

    Tweet from 2015:

    Tweet from 2014:

  13. @Charles Pewitt

    You know what, I respect you for what you’re doing. At least you’re trying to do something IRL, unlike 99% of the people on this blog (myself included).

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  14. You know what, I respect you for what you’re doing. At least you’re trying to do something IRL, unlike 99% of the people on this blog (myself included).

    I’m just having fun. I’m also waiting for Jared Kushner and Trump to make their big push to massively increase legal immigration while refusing to deport illegal aliens.

    Trump will kick the hornet’s nest when he really starts to try to sell his mass legal immigration importation crud.

    Trump train heading for the cliff and the bridge is washed out.

    Mystery Swamp City DC train rolling around the bend, took our candidate Trumpy away from us again!

  15. 216 says:

    Bluestan would have East Asian levels of IQ, hard to say about its internal cohesion if it was an actual country, as no one is currently proposing the White Liberal Ethnostate.

    Redstan would be in the European norm. So contrary to certain fears, it wouldn’t descend to Belarus levels of GDP (otoh, Mongolia is high IQ but hasn’t developed a high GDP yet)

  16. 216 says:

    The average Unz reader probably has an IQ in excess of both groups.

    But how many of us want to live in Unzstan?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  17. @216

    I know I’m the dumbest guy here – but I called Jewcy Smollett getting out of jail time (although I thought he’d plea to a lesser charge; the Chicago Machine even surprises me sometimes with its irresistible power.)

  18. @Thucydides

    Why do some many talk about Ashkenazi IQ when there’s no substantial proof of their having any grand IQ? US Jews, almost all of whom are Ashkenazi, are thoroughly beaten in IQ by Nipponese and (other?) Orientals and lead average whites by a point or two – which shouldn’t be, considering the educational and financial advantages of the Ashkenazi (children of bankers) over each of these groups (children of truck drivers, children of dry cleaners).

    You people with this “my super IQ Ashkenazi” fetish are just as embarrassing imo as NW European people who cuckold for Semite Hebrew myth and name their children David, Luke, Mark.

  19. saying a Trump voter is more/less intelligent

    than a Clinton voter (or any other ‘Murkan voter)

    is equivalent to saying that

    a radish is more/less intelligent than a cucumber.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  20. Does this take into account the fact that a large percentage of Hillary voters are fictional characters?

    • Replies: @216
  21. 216 says:
    @Twodees Partain

    That’s a cope posting narrative that we should cease promoting.

    While there is sizeable amount of voter fraud that exists, it has proven difficult to prosecute, and moderates are largely unconvinced that the issue is widespread and sanctioned by Democrats from the top on down.

    Legislative action against fraud is always condemned by groups like the NAACP and other “good government” leftist groups. These actors enjoy favorable coverage in the mainstream media, while anti-fraud rightist groups are portrayed as charlatans.

    Furthermore, the RNC is hesistant to take action against fraud, for reasons of either being compromised, incompetent or both.

    There was some speculation that the increase in black turnout from ’08 to ’12 was prompted by fears of a GOP conspiracy to use Voter ID to suppress votes. So there was a “blowback” to our anti-fraud efforts.

  22. @indocon

    Indeed, nearly 3 points by the same conversion, with an Obama white voter edge half what Clinton’s was.

  23. Mike P. says:

    This isn’t news; it’s been known for a long time. It’s usually cited by liberal academics as an explanation for why there aren’t more conservatives in the academy, although of course the same explanations aren’t accepted for why there aren’t more non-Asian minorities and women in the academy.

  24. @advancedatheist

    If you’ve not been in this new extension out back by the marsh of the UR palatial estate, rest assured this guy has not and would not ever refer to IQ testing as “racist pseudoscience”!

  25. @neutral

    Vox Day’s “midwit” neologism is one of his best in my opinion.

  26. @Seth.D

    No, never banned. Currently deactivated, uncertain whether or not I’ll resume there. Plenty of reasons not to–Derb’s description of it being the intellectual equivalent of being bombarded by ping pong balls is a good one. The idea of creating content to be monetized by people who generally despise me, my ancestors, and my descendants never sat particularly well.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  27. @Thucydides

    Narrows very marginally, about 0.1 IQ point. Jewish sample for presidential voting was only 18, about at the 2% as would be expected, so it doesn’t move the needle much at all.

    Jewish Trump voters do better than white Clinton voters, unsurprisingly. Though the Jewish-white Gentile wordsum gap has been declining over the last two decades, in 2018 it actually opened back up again to 12 points in 2018 (albeit with a small sample size of just 26–Jews have a high voter turnout rate!)

  28. @gate666

    Indeed, while conservatives have a higher IQ than moderates, who have the lowest of all.

    One caveat: While the wordsum does correlate with IQ at a very respectable .71 (which is why I use it as a proxy), it’s obviously titled towards the verbal side of things, something that benefits liberals relative to conservatives in general and also women (who are more leftist) relative to men (who are less so).

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Reg Cæsar
  29. @Anon

    Recently that has been the case wrt education (and intelligence), but really only since the 2000s. Reagan’s voters were smarter and more educated than either Carter’s or Mondale’s by more than rounding errors!

    • Replies: @Feryl
  30. Rosie says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    moderates, who have the lowest of all.

    This is very consistent with my own everyday observations.

    • Agree: 216
  31. @YetAnotherAnon

    The ‘manifesto’ over 70 pages with a single throwaway (mildly favorable) reference to Jews is quite curious for a murderous white nationalist, isn’t it?

    “Countering racism with racism is not the answer” should be met with mocking “Judaism is not a race!” Now that’s an assertion that will trigger some of the blue checkmarks.

  32. @216

    A reasonable way to get people to start thinking about this: Ask them if they’d, today (assuming language fluency), prefer to live Hungary or Great Britain. In total candor, I’d prefer the former.

    • Replies: @216
  33. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Indeed you did! Black privilege? Gay privilege? Leftist privilege? Economic privilege? He has everything going for him except for being male (which being gay some negates). I wasn’t cynical enough. Will I ever learn? Open question.

  34. @vagabondtheelder

    The GSS shows Jews consistently doing much better than white gentiles on wordsum, a test that correlates with IQ testing at .71 (albeit it does skew towards verbal).

    • Replies: @VagabondTheElder
  35. @Haxo Angmark

    Focusing on it does put one… on the spectrum, I suppose.

  36. 216 says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    If we look at revealed preferences, (white) Americans and W. Euros by proxy tend to prefer an open society versus the closed society that most of us here want.

    I make note of how a large number of Boomer and GenX white(Asian) parents are conservative, but don’t blink an eye at sending their children to a left-wing university and then being (shocked shocked!) at the result.

    Most of the artifacts of right-wing culture are things people are running away from, which is a common left-wing trope (our counterpart is mugged by reality)

    Conservatives/moderates in California didn’t respond to immigration by forming enclaves or even bloc voting, they high-tailed it out of the state often at a profit.

    The strongest arguments used against Brexit are:
    -Wreck the economy for generations
    -Right side of history, UK cannot (should not) go it alone

    Redstan would face the same arguements, but backed up by the Swallwell nuke threat.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    , @Feryl
  37. @Audacious Epigone

    Being better read doesn’t provide a defense for the chimerical higher IQ argument. Being children of bankers provides the better read explanation.

    In the US, Asians dominate the Yid in college enrollment scores, to the point the Yids are fearing Asianization of the elite colleges the Yids hold control over now. Asian IQ is proven by work habit and success without familial tribal considerations and or shysterish ethics. Yid “success”, albeit also at times through work habit, cannot be proven to stand without familial tribal considerations and or shysterish ethics.

    If we’re gonna fap to IQ, ching chong yang wang is the sound of the bells and whistles we’re making rhythmic strokes to.

    Also, this isn’t Europe, Asians being of the Orient, not Pakistan or some Pacific Island.

  38. @Audacious Epigone

    It’s not so much that moderates are less intelligent, than the less intelligent are moderate. Center is the default position.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  39. TG says:

    Breaking headlines: Trump voters marginally less retarded than Clinton Voters!

  40. @gate666

    are you really surprised that white liberals have higher IQ than white conservatives?

    As Orwell said, some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them.

    Not that they necessarily believe them. The pigs didn’t.

  41. SafeNow says:

    I think the Ashkenazi gene for talking often gets taken to be high IQ. Thus we see Jewish pundits, academics, attorneys, and non-professionals winning admiration and arguments based upon verbal fluency rather than factual knowledge and logic.

    • Agree: VagabondTheElder
  42. Jay Fink says:

    I am just one individual Jew but my parents were not bankers or professionals. My dad was a car salesman and my mom was a secretary turned casino card dealer. They divorced when I was young. My mom would leave me with babysitters while she went out to bars slutting around. So I hardly had a privileged childhood yet I score high on IQ tests. I believe genetics play a huge role in IQ scores.

  43. You know what’s annoying, people who say “But my personal example.” in a topic discussing group dynamics rather than singular instance.

    Ex: Global warming can’t be true, it was cold where I live today.

    Ex: Of course white men can jump, I’m a great hurdler.

    Ex: Jews aren’t a shitty people, I know a good one.

  44. anonymous[140] • Disclaimer says:

    It was apparent to me that Clinton voters were unthinking conformists going along with the herd. The mass media were all a part of her election team. The Trump voters I encountered were apt to be independent thinkers resistant to group-think. Trump only had personal appearances, talk radio and internet going for him while Clinton had all the large scale media hyping her. Clinton types I now encounter always characterize Trump voters as hicks and semi-literate ‘deplorables’. After all, who could go against the anointed one but some unenlightened hillbilly. But that’s not my experience. Clinton voters were strutting around all over the place wearing their Clinton t-shirts while probable Trump voters were keeping it to themselves. The results surprised quite a few people.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  45. captflee says:


    I challenge your claim; I’m way dumber than you, and there are several here amongst us who, judging by their comments over the years, may be dumber yet.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  46. 216 says:

    Quit Big Social

    If you want to wade through the replies, there’s certainly a crowd of leftists thinking they are still too late and not banning enough dissidents.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @216
  47. @anonymous

    ” Clinton types I now encounter always characterize Trump voters as hicks and semi-literate “deplorables”

    In Germany the epicenter of human psychosis and derangement and the most profound anti DT country on planet mirth, according to the “Intelligenzia” all DT voters are “Red-neck hillbillies”, and all HC voters are triple-digit IQ wizards holding three Doktor titeln, and are tenured as perfessers at at least five universities.

    Authenticjazzman, DT voter with no regrets, “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro jazz artist

    PS What was BC other than a bonafide red-neck hillbilly?

    • Replies: @Feryl
  48. @Priss Factor

    I catered this party. It was held at a public park. Very loud and boisterous, as you might imagine. Ribs, sausage, and plenty of fruit punch were on the menu. Later, as the hip hop grew louder and the participants became more inebriated, fights broke out. Cops were called and the party organizers stiffed us on the bill.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  49. @216

    As I’ve repeated often, it seems exceedingly unlikely that there will be largescale violence systematically inflicted upon American citizens by the USG. Even something like Waco is almost unthinkable today on account of the social panopticon.

    It’s funny to see, as centrifugal forces keep getting stronger in every part of the Western world, the idea that the European Union is on the “right side of the history”. The thing is one severe global economic recession away from collapse.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  50. Feryl says:

    I make note of how a large number of Boomer and GenX white(Asian) parents are conservative, but don’t blink an eye at sending their children to a left-wing university and then being (shocked shocked!) at the result.”

    Those generations went to college in the 60’s-90’s, when youngsters weren’t supposed to accept whatever was being spouted at the time by the “authorities”. But Millennials and Gen Z grew up with mass incarceration, “zero-tolerance”, suicide by cop, PC speech codes, and the like. So younger generations are accustomed to consuming whatever adults are selling, since the penalty for rebellion is so severe. Older generations think that a “live and let live” attitude can still prevail on most circumstances, without realizing that they themselves have socialized their kids to be frightened by individuality. Of course, there’s still a hidden culture of goofing on the system (memes and such), but it’s highly anonymous and secretive; clandestine. In the high-trust 1960’s and 70’s, Boomers could speak their minds and so forth without much worry that their status and freedom was being jeopardized (after all, even genuinely serious crimes weren’t punished all that much back then). The New Deal and Great Society norms of gently encouraging conformity while tolerating dissent have all been tossed aside in the Reaganite and post-Reaganite era, with accusations of “inappropriate” behavior being enough to ruin someone’s reputation. Small wonder that people under 40 feel such pressure to enforce modern social norms (which is heightened with higher status, thus why educated people are more PC). BTW, kids in the 1950’s and early 60’s were shown film strips about “predatory” homosexuals, yet that era’s norm enforcers didn’t even consider the possibility of extremely vindictive punishment of misfits, let alone publicly encourage vengeance. Remember that vengeance is always a sign of a corrupt and decaying society, not a wholesome one. Modern PC norms and social media have led to endless campaigns to have people be figuratively (or literally) destroyed for some sort of violation. The hostility towards the New Deal era among even the modern Left can probably be attributed to crassly refusing to acknowledge the positive aspects of mid-century America (after all, we weren’t doing enough to advance black or gay power at the time). Look up the “Snowtown murders” for edifaction on what “justice” is in a decaying era (a wave of serial killings against ostensible gays and pedos was perpetrated by several Australian idiots in the 1990’s).

    “Conservatives/moderates in California didn’t respond to immigration by forming enclaves or even bloc voting, they high-tailed it out of the state often at a profit.”

    The West coast in the 1990’s became more urbanized/more unequal, became more focused on the (non-military) tech industry (IT especially), and lost a lot of it’s military economy after the Cold War ended. It’s interesting that in the better functioning government/economy era of the 1940’s-1980’s, we saw a greater diversity of economic sectors in each region of America (for example, pre-NAFTA and especially pre-1970’s, manufacturing was important to the Northeast, Midwest, South, and West Coast). Whereas in the new Gilded Age (roughly 1995-present), the Northeast is the finance hub, the South is the military hub, The Plains are the energy hub, and the West Coast is the high-tech hub. The Eastern Midwest has been the biggest loser in this era, because it lost much of it’s manufacturing base and every other sector doesn’t want anything to do with it (Wall Street traders want to be able to fly quickly to London, Tech gurus want to be able to quickly fly to Asia, The South has a large Celtic population that is more apologetic to the military than any other region, and so forth). People outside of the Midwest are largely clueless just how devastating NAFTA was to the region; we were hemorrhaging jobs while other regions were transititioning to the “new economy” (Gilded Age globalism and financialism, endless Pentagon pork, and social Darwinism).

    Agnostic might point out that in a high status striving era, birds of a certain feather flock together. So those who wish to be Masters of the Universe gravitate to D.C., LA, Seattle, Atlanta, NYC, Boston, etc. depending on which economic niche they specialize in. This has led to a massive brain drain from the Midwest, the interior Northeast, and Appalachia. This is why elites actually encourage flight from”dying” areas; they think that everyone is as concerned about status as they are, and actually look down on people who are humble and loyal enough to stick to their home town. If they only knew that it’s the norms of the Gilded Age which fatten up a handful of big winners (elites and the industries/cities they favor), while everyone else fights over what little is left, or just resigns themselves to being the underclass in a horrible era.

  51. Feryl says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    We got by w/o “social media” for a long time, and we still can. Besides, the chaotic “swarming” nature of Twitter in particular is not something I have much time or use for (in a more civil era, it would be more useful, but in the current dysfunctional and combustive era….Not so much). I def. think that the political realms of Twitter have devolved into people aligning along conformation bias lines, from which they might venture out and attack someone on the other side from time to time. Lemmings, basically. I don’t get the sense that we are better off in this internet 3.0 era than we were in the 1.0 (BBS’s) or 2.0 (chat rooms, message boards, blogs) era, just because WRT quality internet content and debate, the medium is not the message. Oh, and what-about-ism/bad faith flaming is for trolls, partisan tards, and Boomers. Pointing at the other side and sputtering about what horrible people they are, even if technicially truthful, doesn’t elevate your side any higher. In fact, focusing on the shortcomings of an opponent is in and of itself evidence of weakness and insecurity, because confident and happy people don’t dwell on the shortcoming of others, since they have better things to do. What is there to gain, really, from reading James Woods’s Twitter feed? It’s just non-stop BS about Democrats being horrible. Partisan goofs really lack self-awareness, don’t they? We won’t get anywhere without acknowledgement that Left, Right, and Center have all failed us big time for the last 30 years.

  52. Feryl says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Didja see the Hillary supporters after Trump’s victory? Or the inauguration protests (as far as I can tell, the first time in how many decades that attending an inauguration was possibly dangerous?) Remember what happened in Chicago when Trump did a rally there? I also don’t doubt that similar Right-wing elements could behave in a similar fashion if a “socialist” candidate spoke of confiscating guns or what have you on the campaign trail (let’s remember that Trump calling Mexicans rapists is as palatable to the Left as gun-grabbing is to the right). True, these are street partisans and not government officials, but it’s a small step from private bands of goons to law enforcement/military personnel being used to similar effect by over-zealous public officials.

    Waco was a really a stupid operation given the era in which it took place (the 80’s/90’s unraveling), since public (e.g. Boomer and Gen X-er) sentiment was aggressively opposed to large government operations at the time, particularly if they were perceived to be bullying to people just minding their business. But a 1940’s Waco, or a 2010’s Waco, would not arouse that much surprise (remember the “Bundy ranch” killings that happened a couple years ago? Alex Jones tried to make a big deal out of it, but the public is no longer worried anymore about “big government”. Rather, each side wants to commandeer the government for it’s own agenda, which is common during a crisis era). Trump blew away the 2016 competition by promising to harness government for activism and re-building, instead of blathering about making government as small as possible, as if it was still 1995

  53. @captflee

    You know how to use a semi-colon properly so I’m not sure I agree with the first part of your statement. 🙂

  54. Feryl says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Reagan was going to lower their taxes; no 1980’s Democrat (or really 1940’s-1980’s Democrat) was going to do that*. In hindsight, having Carter and Mondale as president would’ve been much more fiscally healthy, because they wouldn’t have simultaneously cut taxes and jacked up military spending. But after the mid-80’s economic boom, since when has this country’s leaders ever given a shit about sound economic fundamentals? Ultimately, the public insisted on voting for post-New Deal Republicans in the general election because it had lost patience with progressive idealism and fairness, and wanted to embark on an era of giving generous rewards to the big winners.

    Elites trended very far to the Right before the Clinton era, and especially before the Bush era, because into the 1980’s most Democrats were very pro-heavy taxes on the rich. When Clinton didn’t repeal Reagan’s tax cuts, suddenly for cultural reasons wealthy people could comfortably vote Democrat. Note that the Reagan yuppie coalition was never culturally conservative, and neither are the neo-cons. America’s elites are cultural liberals who are consistently opposed to high tax levels, while varying in their enthusiasm for war (erstwhile Manhattan liberals, if pro-war, will vote for a non-isolationist GOP; if us paleo isolationists dominate the party, then these liberals will go back to the Clinton wing of the Democrat party where they belong).

    It should also be noted that the GOP became much more culturally conservative in the 1990’s precicely because Clinton brought the Reagan yuppies into the Democrat party (with Larry Summers being the quintessential example of neo-liberals taking a dump on what used to be FDR’s party); cultural liberals deserted the GOP to an increasing degree in the 90’s and 2000’s, because wealthy liberals (and most cultural liberals are wealthy) no longer feared New Dealer Dems threatening to implement high taxes on the wealthy. Agnostic likes to point out that the Eastern elite voted for Reagan in the 1980’s; but that was only because they so desperately wanted their taxes lowered. And Reagan, BTW, catered to the social liberalism of the yuppies by effectively failing to censor the media or restrict abortion, even though 1980’s heartlanders (and New Dealers) were cultural conservatives (it would be left up to private entities to censor media, and it would be left to individual states to determine abortion policy). It would not be until the yuppies converted to the Dems in the 90’s that Republicans would become more vocal about censoring media and stopping abortion. But since post-1980 has been about letting rich people get their way, our culture has been getting more and more liberal, while our economic policy gets more and more conservative.

  55. @SunBakedSuburb

    Somewhat related – the Walmart near my house recently, after 10 years, started doing the receipt check thing a few months ago. Not all the time, but maybe half the time. (I refuse to show my receipt and tell the person to call the police on me, BTW)

    My theory for this is they are seeing an increase in theft, as the section 8 fueled demographic shift continues apace, as more negros from the projects in Chicago relocate near here in what used to be a mostly white cluster of towns.

    But what I have noticed is, the receipt checkers are noticeably selective in their receipt checking. Three guesses as to whose receipts they don’t ask to check???

  56. Priss Factor [AKA "Asagirian"] says: • Website


  57. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:

    I think that a SWPL ethnostate would be interesting at least.

    Imagine a country that you can only enter if you’re a white person of IQ 110 or higher. If you’re over 25 you must have a bachelor’s degree or better. Your BMI must be 25 or lower. And the immigration authorities constantly try to screen out racists, woman-haters, conservative Christians, and anyone else who doesn’t fit their ideology and lifestyle.

  58. I suspect the median Trump voter might be higher by a wider margin. The Dems high-low alliance means relatively few outliers on the right of the curve are pulling the mean up.

  59. If white Hillary voters are so smart why can’t they meme?

    Why do they believe hokum like Russia “hacked the election?”

    Why don’t any of them speak Spanish if they want the U.S. to be filled with burrito goblins?

    And lastly…

    Why are so many of them in six figure peonage to Sallie Mae?

    • Replies: @Feryl
  60. Feryl says:

    I dunno whether you’re trolling or not, but Bill Clinton was a globalist and a Rhodes Scholar. You see, Clinton followed the lead of Reagan; enact Social Darwinist and globalist policies, but do it while you have a genial bed-side manner. GW Bush was pretty similar, also, with Al Gore being derided for his inability to hide his ego. The neat thing about Trump is that he’s our first president since Carter to not bullshit the public with an insouciant public image (well, I suppose GHW Bush wasn’t exactly slick, either, but then again he never liked Reagan and was never that comfortable shedding his Rockefeller past). Americans are tired of being served bullshit by a pleasant avuncular head of state.

  61. Feryl says:

    If white Hillary voters are so smart why can’t they meme?

    Hilary was the neo-liberal candidate, and neo-liberalism has gotten so lazy by virtue of decades of unchallenged dominance that neo-liberals can no longer even persuasively explain why they deserve continuing power. Also, the ID politics morons (mostly aging women) who voted for feminist reasons are generally the worst kind of people at well, being funny.

    I would imagine that New Dealers in the 1980’s were at a serious disadvantage, too, since the benefits of New Deal ideology were regarded as being so self-evident, 50 years after FDR’s election, that proponents had gotten lazy at persuasively sticking up for them.

    Americans turned on the New Deal during the Carter Admin, and they turned on neo-liberalism during Obama’s 2nd term. Were this not the case, then the public would report much greater satisfaction with institutions. But that’s not what we’re seeing right now. If Bernie or Andy Yang got elected and expanded gov. covered healthcare or created price controls on medical billing, or put people to work on infrastructure projects, or withdrew active American involvement in various foreign conflicts to save $ and free up investment opportunities for Wall Street (remember that Pentagon warmongering jeopardizes often fragile financial arrangements between The West and various other markets, Obama was lambasted by the neo-cons after he eased up on Iran for the sake of protecting Iran’s financial arrangements with Western banks), than Americans would feel better about our direction, as we’d have proof that our elites understood that they had to make amends for 30-40 years of choices that destroyed the American middle class and put many lower class Americans in perpetual poverty and despair.

    Given that the GOP’s image, as long as pre-1980 cohorts call the shots, is predicated on the “Reagan Revolution”, it’s a folly to expect the GOP to wean us off neo-liberalism. Trump was attacked by his parties brain-trust for even the most token attempts at reform, like withdrawing from Syria. And more older Republicans than you might think have drunk the Kool-Aid on Venezuala (“lets save another country from communism”. What the hell decade do they think this is, anyway?).

    • Replies: @216
    , @216
  62. 216 says:

    And more older Republicans than you might think have drunk the Kool-Aid on Venezuala (“lets save another country from communism”. What the hell decade do they think this is, anyway?).

    The GOP pols are thinking they can convince VZ emigres to become the “New Cubans” while shoring up their support with younger Cubans that don’t hold as strong a grudge aganist the Castro Bros.

    FWIW, Rubio is probably the only GOP pol of national stature that bothers to campaign in Spanish. He outpolled Trump in ’16 running for re-election, who didn’t even have a Spanish-language website.

    Honestly even I was still shocked at the frothing Boomer rage when the announcement of “100 Russian troops” happened. In no fashion are some Wagner mercs a “threat to the Monroe Doctrine”, but to the Boomercons its Red Dawn.

  63. 216 says:

    There’s a lot we can read into this here.

    For the mainstream GOP, the goal is to always be slavish to the agenda of the corporate donors. If that means purging any social conservatism, identitarianism or even self-respect it is in the offing.

    Mark Hanna’s system is designed to work where pro-business GOP actions are repaid with major campaign donations, pro-forma civic virtue, and prodding employees to vote GOP. We have a system now where the GOP delivers pro-business actions, and corporations respond by telling social conservatives to piss up a rope.

    For all the talk of socialism, what exactly has AOC and the Foul Five proposed to nationalize? What exactly is in it for the fake-right to praise hostile tech companies, of which only Dell isn’t flagrantly Dem. You can’t market to an indebted youth audience that the corporations need to be defended, you’d have better luck arguing for using endowment revenue for loan forgiveness.

    I’ll say off the bat I want Twitter nationalized, followed by Facebook and Google if necessary.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Feryl
  64. 216 says:


    Of course, when they mean “jail time” that is really aimed at us.

  65. Feryl says:

    “For the mainstream GOP, the goal is to always be slavish to the agenda of the corporate donors. If that means purging any social conservatism, identitarianism or even self-respect it is in the offing.”

    But there’s no longer the demand for cultural conservatism that there was in the 80’s and 90’s; there was a, ahem, reaction against cultural liberalism that happened because Boomers went so apeshit in the 1970’s. Now personally I don’t want a Jihad against porn or abortion, because it reminds me of idiots like Jerry Falwell focusing 100% on vindictiveness toward deviants without having a word to say about out-sourcing, gambling legislation, immigration, and the like. What’s more palatable is what America went thru in the 1920’s-1960’s, when leaders focused on enhancing worker strength and communal bonds via economic and immigration related Progressive legislation while eventually learning that cultural policing requires a light touch (e.g., we can restrict gambling, porn, and homosexuals without resorting to draconian “zero-tolerance” and the prison industrial complex).

    For the “mainstream” GOP, they are awkwardly caught between the libertarianism of not interfering with the business practices of companies, and trying to cater to the aging hard-core conservatives of the heartland who are single issue voters on abortion, and who still think that we don’t lock enough people up. Like I said above, we need to grasp that methods are just as important as motives; Boomer conservatives aren’t necessarily wrong in their motives, but it’s their methods (always using an axe when a scalpel might work better) that usually stink. Plus it’s Boomers who still often believe that most business owners are essentially good people who shouldn’t be harassed as much by the government, thus leading to the contradiction of no real action against business owners even when they are flaming liberals on social issues.

    Agnostic has wisely pointed out that we might get a replay of the late 18th century, when only halting action to reform the system was taken, but that still was better than the 1840’s-1860’s, when we were plunged into a social Darwinist nightmare of elites bickering over cheap labor driven fiascoes. That plunge was driven by the arrogance of Licoln’s generation, much like how the plunge of the 1980’s-2000’s was driven by reckless Boomers (who often derided “lazy” white and black Americans for complaining too much, seeking union protections, and not being grateful for their paycheck).

    The GOP, once the Dems began to finally enact Progressive legislation, is going to re-attract the “lower muh taxes” yuppies who went to the Dems in the 90’s and 00’s. Working class social conservatives will began voting Dem en masse once again, esp. because Silent/Boomer/Gen X-er single issue idiots are dying off/too old to be of relevance any more. Wealthy cranks (and wannabe rich people) who don’t believe in the legitimacy of the IRS are eventually going to be relegated to the fringes of even the GOP, just as they were in the 1930’s-1960’s.

    Look, the party that believes in pandering to business and property owners is never going to fully clamp down on cultural decadence. Prior to FDR (and his Western counterparts) corralling the self-destructive tendencies of Social Darwinist eras, social conservatives were mostly impotent with only a handful of victories in the late 18th and early 19th century (and those “victories” were tainted by moralistic excess and vengeance, whereas in the glorious 1940’s and 50’s everyone remembers how unpretentious and humble the moral overlords of the era were). Similary, the Reagan and immediate post-Reagan era have been defined by occasional spasms of vengeance towards obvious deviants (like pedophiles), but no overall sense that cultural (and business) practices are being effectively policed. The “conservative” party, in American history, calls the shots during periods of deepening chaos and bitterness, the liberal party during a reform era on the other hand is able to bring peace and stability.

    BTW, it’s funny how mid-century Westerns made the old West seem relatively palatable, but by the early 1990’s Westerns were starting to make the Old West look like, well, the real Old West. E.g., nasty, brutal, harsh, and violent. Remember that in the early 70’s, Dirty Harry was portrayed as a fascist nut case who angered normies, and the first sequel even tried to rehabilitate him by having him take on a rogue police death squad. But by the 1983 sequel, Eastwood is clearly intended to be a heroic figure who approves of vengeance against gang rapists (and the late 80’s would see the beginning of draconian anti-crime measures in which rehabilitation and mercy were the last things on the agenda).

  66. Feryl says:

    The funny optics of that picture is that pale gawky young white Republican dweebs aren’t represented (yet you’ll see plenty of them in actual “war-rooms” where Republican sausage is made, one of these groups tried to recruit me and the pics in the flyer showed a buncha dorks; George Will would be proud). What’s also funny is that nobody in the picture is defiantly non-Caucasian; it’s like they are selling diversity to white people by excluding Sub-Saharan blacks and taciturn East Asians.

    There’s nothing gayer or whiter than a group of young white guys devoted to conservatism inc. (less political gays vote Dem or don’t vote at all). As we all ought to know, the salt of the Earth normies elevated by the New Deal coalition were vehemently despised by the libertarian intellectuals (fags and sociopaths) of the 1980’s (this has since been the subject of historical revisionism by the modern right, who claim that it was the Dems who first abandoned thick necked working men; it’s about as accurate as the “Dems are the real racists”). Brett Easton Ellis says that he noticed how effeminate many middle to upper class men of the mid-1980’s were starting to act, with Patrick Bateman being a caricature of how hollow and vain “we” were becoming (under the Aegis of the Reagan yuppie generation).

  67. Feryl says:

    Agnostic says that sham marriages started becoming more common in the 1980’s. When concern for integrity began to diminish, and we gave the green light to a hands-off culture (by smashing unions and slashing taxes on the wealthy), voila, many aspiring elites began to engage in marriages of convenience (for political, status, and/or financial benefits). This was a niche occurrence during the hey-day of the New Deal and Great Society era, but as society began to reward elites more heavily in the 80’s, sure enough, more people felt encouraged to commit to cynical marriages.

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