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Flatism Is Racist
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Mocking flatists is racial dog whistling. It’s misogynistic, too:

Globularism is white supremacy.

Which Democrat presidential candidate has the courage to call out the ubiquitous flatism plaguing this country?

My money is on Marianne Williamson, though there’s a real opportunity for Warren to shore up an electoral weakness. If she’s astute enough to seize it then she deserves the presidency.

++Addition++Commenter EliteCommInc points out that blacks have a high percentage of “probably not true” responses which I aggregated with “probably true” and “definitely true” to get the “is or could be” figures. Here is the same graph with “probably not true” removed, so that these are the percentages who either say it is “probably” or “definitely” true that the earth is flat:


My explanation: I genuinely didn’t look that closely at the three responses other than “definitely untrue”. The percentages saying it definitely isn’t true made the spreadsheet entry quicker, and entertaining the idea that the earth might be flat even if it’s probably roughly spherical still seems pretty bonkers to me, but there is a large percentage of “probably untrue” black responses.

Parenthetically, the color scheme is off because Docs is glitching badly. Hopefully the issues there are resolved soon. Otherwise it’ll be time to find another graph-creating application.

 
• Category: Science • Tags: Polling 
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  1. SFG says:

    I’ll leave this here:

    Though some of your fans will enjoy the nod to David Irving and criticism of globalists…though he may have a different, more literal meaning of ‘globalist’ here.

  2. AaronB says:

    What this means is that blacks are significantly more open minded than whites, and significantly less likely to be intimated by official opinion. And they have better imaginations.

    • LOL: Cloudbuster
  3. SFG says:

    You may be interested in the rap song ‘Flatline’, by the rapper B.o.B.

    He name-drops David Irving and ‘globalists’, though he may mean people who literally think the earth is round here. There is also reference to NASA being part of the Department of Defense, Richard Sauder, who talks about flying saucers, and lizard people.

  4. Talha says:

    Wow – the between 18-29 group is eye-opening…

    Peace.

  5. Jason Liu says:

    Surprising how many more blacks believe vaccines cause autism — the stereotype I have of conspiracy theorists is a white guy living in the sticks and missing most of his teeth

  6. SFG says:
    @Jason Liu

    Conspiratorial thinking is quite common among black people. Given the history when you go far back enough, sometimes they’re not even wrong.

    Anyway, one man’s ‘power structure’ is another man’s ‘conspiracy theory’. The same people who go on about Soros will ignore the Koch brothers’ funding ideologues, and vice versa.

  7. @Talha

    Yes, indeed, that is, if by “eye-opening” you mean “high-functioning retarded”.

    • Replies: @Talha
  8. Member of the House of Representin’ Hank Johnson from Georgia District 4 would probably be the go-to guy on this subject, having been Chair of the Congressional Retard Caucus. Representatard Johnson explains the problem with an overpopulated Guam:

  9. dfordoom says: • Website

    Once again we find that the young are substantially dumber than older people.

  10. @dfordoom

    Given the rampant mis- and dis-education pushed by our Marxist schools of ed, I think you’ll find that this mostly affects children who go to public schools.  Elite private schools are probably unaffected, but I don’t know how you’d survey their students.  Home schoolers are wildcards.

  11. Talha says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    As I said on another thread on this subject; I’m sure people who believe the world is flat are fine folks and I have nothing against them any more than I have against guys that think rats are divinely reincarnated ancestors:

    People have all sorts of beliefs, but they can be decent human beings.

    However, there is no way in hell I’m going to board any aircraft that these guys are piloting.

    Peace.

  12. I am much more disappointed by the supposedly high IQ whites who insist that “the laws of physics” prove that 9/11 was a controlled demolition. With stupidity of that magnitude among our own kind, the black belief in a flat Earth looks quaint and harmless in comparison.

    • Agree: dfordoom
  13. I’m very surprised that more women than men believe the Earth might be flat

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  14. A winning presentation of the much-maligned flat-earth views, ‘Mind Control to Major Tom’, lyrics to the tune of the old Bowie hit song, 2min32sec, after Barack Obama chuckles over the ‘Flat Earth Society’

  15. Wait … what? The Earth isn’t flat? I guess I need to reconsider my membership in the Church of Ikea.

    • LOL: jim jones
  16. anon[137] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Do tell how an airplane flying into another building knocked down WTC 7.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  17. anon[137] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Dey be havin’ dem big ‘maginations!

    “Slayings of people with albinism are common in Tanzania, Malawi and Mozambique, where body parts are used in witchcraft rituals because of superstitions that they can bring riches, success, power or sexual conquest.”

    In parts of Africa, people with albinism are hunted for their body parts. The latest victim: a 9-year-old boy
    https://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-malawi-albinos-hunted-2017-story.html

  18. iffen says:
    @dfordoom

    We have had more time to understand how much we don’t know.

  19. El Dato says:

    Whatever happened to Hollow Earth Theory? (I’m never managing to keep track whether we are supposed to be living on the inside or the outside and whether Hitler believed in one or the other or both, which is why V-2 mistakenly hit London even though they were meant to strike the Ukraine).

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
  20. @Talha

    Wonder what the racial demographics of that 18-29 y/0 isolate is.

  21. The growing belief in this sort of thing is derived from the growing rejection of Western Civilization. Millions are now free to express their true selves.

    The simple fact is that a significant proportion of the human population is not a lot more capable of analysis than Koko the gorilla (estimated IQ 85, supposedly). Another fact is that an even larger proportion of the population is unwilling to accept the first stated simple fact (rationalizations for that denial vary).

    These two facts supply the basis for understanding how we got into our current predicament.

    VOTE, n. The instrument and symbol of a freeman’s power to make a fool of himself and a wreck of his country. – A. Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary

    This is not an argument for the continued dominance of Western Civilization, nor for totalitarian government or monarchy, but a caution that one should realize what kind of world we live in – and prepare accordingly. Natural selection ain’t beanbag.

  22. @AaronB

    You actually need a better imagination to imagine the world to be a globe. As a child, for a long time I couldn’t imagine how it could be. I needed to grow older (at least 6 or maybe 7 years old) and smarter to be able to accept it without reservations.

    Because the immediate observation is that the earth is flat.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  23. @El Dato

    Everyone knows the Nazis shut down their base at the center of the Earth and moved it to the Moon!

  24. Anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jason Liu

    Conspiracy theory is a fairly meaningless and politically loaded term. Its basically meant to imply that institutional lies don’t exist, a claim for which virtually everyone can cite exceptions and therefore for which virtually knows to be a false assertion.

    One man’s ridiculed conspiracy theory is another man’s wisdom: some of that conspiracy theory/wisdom likely having merit and some not. But I guarantee that many people from dentally challenged exurbanites to high-end urban lawyers hold-close a measure of esoteric knowledge: some hard earned and some not.

    That being said, the numbers for the possibility of a flat earth are a lot higher than I would have expected across the board. I pride myself to analyzing arguments on their merit rather than to dismiss anything on instinct, but the flat earth argument is fairly easily dismissed if for no other reason than many of the arguments given can be readily invalidated.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  25. Anon[247] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I am much more disappointed by the supposedly high IQ whites who insist that “the laws of physics” prove that 9/11 was a controlled demolition. With stupidity of that magnitude among our own kind, the black belief in a flat Earth looks quaint and harmless in comparison.

    I’m more disappointed when supposedly high IQ Whites ^^ exclusively utilize strawman arguments and slide posts and expect high IQ people not only to take their comments seriously but to not hold them in suspicion from thereon out: whatever their beliefs.

  26. AaronB says:
    @reiner Tor

    Excellent point, Reiner.

    Perhaps then we can only say that blacks are not intimidated by expert opinion and consensus.

  27. Do we have numbers on how many believe in the Living Document?

    For now at least, we can still believe anything we want to believe. Although it may be illegal or simply inadvisable to talk about it.

  28. @Intelligent Dasein

    Well the official story doesn’t click

  29. El Dato says:

    According to anonymous sources cited by H.P. Lovecraft, the center of the Earth is actually occupied by inner city denizens:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transition_of_Juan_Romero

    The story involves a mine that uncovers a very deep chasm, too deep for any sounding lines to hit bottom. The night after the discovery of the abyss the narrator and one of the mine’s workers, a Hispanic called Juan Romero, venture inside the mine, drawn against their will by a mysterious rhythmical throbbing in the ground. Romero reaches the abyss first and is swallowed by it. The narrator peers over the edge, sees something – “but God, I dare not tell you what I saw!” and loses consciousness. That morning he and Romero are both found in their bunks, Romero dead. Other miners swear that neither of them left their cabin that night. The chasm has vanished as well.

    Morals: “The closing of the gap will be achieved by deadifying the hispanics!”

  30. If some asked me,

    “Why don’t black people trust whites?”

    I would point to this article and say well. Apparently a lot of whites with influence tend to work overtime in manufacturing negative images of blacks. The survey on whether the Earth is flat notes that some 11% of the black population think it’s likely true.

    The author of the article however seems to be manipulating that perspective by adding the numbers of “probably not true” to the “true” and “probably true” thereby skewing the actual representation.

    And in all things US whites with influence seem incapable of resisting using every angle denigrate blacks and this is just one example, small seemingly harmless as whether one believes in a flat earth or a square earth or one that is generally round — has very little bearing on most people’s lives. But it is not innocent and is one reason whites can’t be trusted.

    So much so that they will even doubt real life threatening possibilities.

    And why the credibility once attached to whiteness even if never deserved is in decline.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  31. indocon says:

    Wow, I’m going to bookmark this survey, going to come in very handy in all those conversations about dumb Trump voters with upper crust white liberals in my work space.

    I believe more Obama voters than Romney voters believed that earth does not revolve around the sun also.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  32. And immigration-invasion is Replacist. Schlapp is a lowlife Replacist.

  33. @Jason Liu

    Thomas Sowell’s White Liberals and Black Rednecks insight is useful here, as it is so often on things like this. The very pithy summation of it is that nearly everything goodwhites make fun of badwhites for, blacks are ‘worse’ on than those badwhites the goodwhites attack. But the goodwhites will NEVER mention as much and will get very squirmy very quickly if anyone else does.

  34. @dfordoom

    Some of it is attributable to collapsing trust in nearly every single institution in the West. No one believes anything anymore, especially young people.

    • Agree: another fred, utu
    • Replies: @another fred
    , @dfordoom
  35. @Talha

    The false belief in a flat earth is far, far less destructive and immiserating than the false belief in blank slatism.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Truth
    , @Violetta
  36. @Kent Nationalist

    Men consistently do better than women in all fields of scientific knowledge except those having to do with nurturing and care.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  37. @EliteCommInc.

    If we just look at those who think it is true or probably true the gap is still quite large, more than 200%.

    I have a healthy respect for skepticism and the people I’m picking on here–to the extent that I’m picking on anyone–are the people who think they’re denigrating dumb, toothless, Trump-supporting Cletus when they make fun of people for being ignorant of abstract truths.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @iffen
  38. @indocon

    Interesting data is the primary reason for this post, like so many others.

    But that’s precisely the secondary reason.

  39. @Audacious Epigone

    More guys believe very strongly that the Earth is flat. Men have stronger convictions, right or wrong. Since the majority gets it right, it greatly improves men’s scores. Women are less sure. This is what causes most of the disparity.

  40. Next you’re going to tell us the Moon landings were real.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  41. “Next you’re going to tell us the Moon landings were real.”

    I saw them with my telescope.

    • Replies: @Truth
  42. @Audacious Epigone

    Some of it is attributable to collapsing trust in nearly every single institution in the West. No one believes anything anymore, especially young people.

    A point I was trying to make in #21, above.

    If you don’t mind, for my edification, what in my post required the extra time for approval?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  43. Twinkie says:
    @The Alarmist

    Next you’re going to tell us the Moon landings were real.

    I am waiting for the Chinese to fake that also. Copycats.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  44. @anon

    It wasn’t the airplane.  It was the beams and debris from the collapse of the towers which hit WTC7, and the severed water main which disabled the sprinklers and prevented the ensuing fire from being controlled.

    It has long been known that an uncontrolled fire will collapse a steel-framed building.  Fires even collapse steel-framed bridges.

    • Replies: @another fred
    , @Sparkon
  45. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    people who think they’re denigrating dumb, toothless, Trump-supporting Cletus

    I’m Cletus’s 1st cousin, once removed, and I don’t like this phrasing and I’m not sure what you are getting at. Even more confusing is the idea that whether the earth is flat or not is an abstraction.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  46. @Jason Liu

    You should check out some of the black KKK conspiracy theories for a hearty lol.

  47. 216 says:

    Related:

    http://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=18144

    This is a particularly good post by the zman today, worth crossposting.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/18/americans-say-the-nations-political-debate-has-grown-more-toxic-and-heated-rhetoric-could-lead-to-violence/

    In regards to the potential of violence, the phrase is said “we are not voting our way out of this”, I must add “nor will we fight our way out of this”

    Contra any insurgent fantasies:

    No uprising will succeed without the assistance of Russia and China, not or, only and.

    Any Dem victory in 2020 means that the FBI is about to enjoy a major budget increase, with a new mandate to go after domestic terrorists.

    Most Dissidents are highly vulnerable to a proscription law, and to being blackmailed into being informants. We can barely stand around under soft totalitarianism.

    There is no support among any conservative elites for resistance against a perma-left government.

    Any severe actions would wait until the last of the Boomers are invalid.

    The solution is either exile or internal exile.

    https://smallwarsjournal.com/index.php/jrnl/art/beware-of-cbrn-terrorism-from-the-far-right

  48. 216 says:

    Specific comments on the Pew study

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/18/americans-say-the-nations-political-debate-has-grown-more-toxic-and-heated-rhetoric-could-lead-to-violence/

    Americans broadly agree that elected officials should avoid using heated language because it could encourage violence.

    Free speech absolutism has no constituency. It should thus not be surprising that the Admin doesn’t care about us being censored. We shouldn’t even complain if we get banned, it comes across as whining.

    Majorities of Americans have strong feelings about what is acceptable for elected officials to say in political debate. Most agree that it is fine for an elected official to say their opponent is uninformed on the issues. But 41% say it is never acceptable to say their opponent is anti-American, and another 31% say this is rarely acceptable.

    The authoritarian moderates strike again. Their “enforced civility” is overwhelmingly popular.

    But what do I know, we are just one big purity spiral away from the Fourth Reich.

  49. @EliteCommInc.

    Your point is a good one. I genuinely didn’t look that closely. The percentages saying it definitely isn’t true made the spreadsheet entry quicker, and entertaining the idea that the earth might be flat even if it’s probably roughly spherical still seems pretty bonkers to me, but there is a large percentage of “probably untrue” black responses. I’m going to update the post with a graph showing the same but just for true/probably true.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  50. @iffen

    What I’m getting at is white liberals mocking white conservatives for being “conspiracy theorists” when blacks are a lot more conspiratorial than white conservatives are.

    • Replies: @216
    , @dfordoom
    , @iffen
  51. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Audacious Epigone

    Some of it is attributable to collapsing trust in nearly every single institution in the West. No one believes anything anymore, especially young people.

    Is that collapse in trust really happening? It may be happening in places like Unz Review and in various alt-right echo chambers but is it happening in the real world?

    Isn’t this part of the Based Millennials myth, or the Based Gen Z myth? Or even the “there’s going to be a backlash any day” myth so popular on the right?

    Most people still seem to have absolute trust in what the media tells them. In older people its absolute trust in the old media. Among the young its absolute trust in the new media and in social media.

    Voter turnout is not collapsing, which you’d expect would happen if people really were losing trust in institutions.

    In my admittedly limited experience young people have an extraordinary trust in everything they’re told at school. And when they go to college they believe everything they’re told.

    My gut feeling is that Millennials and Gen Z have more blind faith in institutions than Boomers or Gen Xers.

    • Replies: @216
    , @another fred
  52. @216

    Majorities also consistently say they don’t like negative attack ads. But every politician runs them against opponents because they work.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  53. @216

    How many of those 91% would consider comparisons of holding facilities to concentration camps and Trump to Hitler as “heated language”?

    • Replies: @216
  54. 216 says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Au contraire,

    That’s speaking truth to power.

    And a congressman threatening to nuke the red states is just harmless banter.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  55. 216 says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    That’s our problem, the intellectual class can veto a lot of our desires. White liberals view themselves as the scolds keeping whites at large from going feral.

    http://www.unz.com/anepigone/citizenship-question-very-popular/#comment-3309158

  56. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Audacious Epigone

    What I’m getting at is white liberals mocking white conservatives for being “conspiracy theorists” when blacks are a lot more conspiratorial than white conservatives are.

    What you need to understand is that most of us have to take a lot of things on trust. There are a lot of things that simply cannot be understood by anyone lacking specialist knowledge. I believe that the Earth orbits the Sun, and that the Moon orbits the Earth. I have zero understanding of the physics involved. I’m not a physicist. I believe in the circulation of the blood but I have no idea how it works. I’m not a doctor. I believe that internal combustion engines work and that when I turn the key in the ignition of my car the engine will start. I have no idea why. I’m not a mechanic. I believe aeroplanes can fly but there’s no way I could explain to you any of the principles involved.

    For most people most things in modern life are black boxes. We don’t need to know how they work, we just need to know that they do work.

    I also don’t know how the economy works. That’s a slightly different thing because economists don’t know how it works either.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @iffen
  57. 216 says:
    @dfordoom

    Voter turnout is not collapsing, which you’d expect would happen if people really were losing trust in institutions.

    Voter turnout drops when people sense there is no difference to be made in the election.

    At a time of “divsiveness” turnout is bound to increase, as there are those wishing to change the system, and this invites a counter-reaction of those wishing to defend the system.

    If the GOP loses in 2020, I expect a dramatic collapse in their turnout as the psychological reality of permanent minority sets in.

    Among the young its absolute trust in the new media and in social media.

    Social media by definition is low trust, recall “Fake News”. It not only fooled older Boomer conservatives, there were entire fake BLM communities.

  58. @AaronB

    A most astute observation. I’ll make another one: despite the stereotype of Southern white rednecks, blacks are more prone to being stubbornly unashamedly ignorant. In the Cult-Marx culture of victimization, education and reading are evil tools of White Privilege.

  59. @dfordoom

    My gut feeling is that Millennials and Gen Z have more blind faith in institutions than Boomers or Gen Xers.

    I would counter that the institutions that receive their faith are revolutionary institutions such as Obama’s promised “change” and the teachers whose instructions they blindly accept are those who tell them that traditional mores exist because of power, not human nature.

    Their faith is revolutionary faith rooted in lies about the nature of human life.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  60. Twinkie says:
    @dfordoom

    I also don’t know how the economy works. That’s a slightly different thing because economists don’t know how it works either.

    Economists simply assume that it works.

    Don’t worry if you didn’t get that joke. That means you never studied economics.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  61. @Audacious Epigone

    We have our disagreements, but I have always considered you a man who thought fair play and integrity matters.

  62. @Twinkie

    Next you’re going to tell us the Moon landings were real.

    I am waiting for the Chinese to fake that also. Copycats.

    And when they do, Andre Vltchek will be there to tell us how wonderful and so much better Chinese fakes are than the American-made original fakes.

  63. Talha says:

    Speaking of “Flatism” as in; the belief that flattening something will solve our problems:

    When your options to win hang on dropping nuclear bombs on villages (the entire material value of which are less than the bomb itself), it’s time to go back to square one and ask some serious questions. Namely, whose heads need to roll for this monumental disaster.

    Flipping over the chessboard in frustration is not the same as winning at chess.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  64. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    But of course, that is a modus operandi for them. I guess that I was trying to see something different instead of a statement of the obvious.

  65. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    far less destructive and immiserating than the false belief in blank slatism.

    It was a useful theory at one time that was a springboard for many human accomplishments, but is definitely past its sell date.

  66. iffen says:
    @dfordoom

    I guess this means that the 737 Max is an omen.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Mr. Rational
  67. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Omen…

    Coincidence…??!!

    Peace.

    • LOL: iffen
  68. @iffen

    I guess this means that the 737 Max is an omen.

    It most definitely is.  Any competent engineer could see the inevitable consequences of a failed AoA sensor.  In a safety culture, that engineer would have to speak up and would be rewarded for so doing.

    The 737 Max means that both competence and safety culture are suppressed at Boeing, if not extinct.

  69. @Talha

    I know the earth isn’t flat — I live on a hill.

  70. @The Alarmist

    Funny,
    Because the moderators of that article allowed a photo of a crucifix shaped dildo propped up next to a bottle of holy water lube to pass through moderation, but when I joked about how the dildo was a hot seller in China because it’s bigger than anything the average Chinaman is packing, MY comment got flushed.

    http://www.unz.com/avltchek/reason-why-west-is-determined-to-ignore-chinas-success

    Comment 128

    So – fake Chinese penises = OK!

    Authentic American jokes = not OK!

  71. J1234 says:

    It would be interesting to know how many people who think the world could be flat have ever been on an intercontinental flight in an airliner. Or anywhere in an airliner. I haven’t circumnavigated the globe in a plane, but when we came back from Denmark (to the midwest US) we saw the ice fields of Hudson bay in March. As I understand it, that isn’t the most direct route on a map, but it is on a globe.

    A considerable number of Americans haven’t been in a plane.

    And a great number of Americans have spent little time up in the clouds — in fact, as many as 13 percent say they have never flown in an airplane at all.

    https://nypost.com/2018/01/11/a-shocking-number-of-americans-never-leave-home/

  72. Twinkie says:
    @Talha

    Flipping over the chessboard in frustration is not the same as winning at chess.

    That’s a message aimed at other chessboards.

    • Replies: @Talha
  73. Talha says:
    @Twinkie

    I guess so; “Hey you land-locked tribal societies stuck in the 12th century that don’t have a single jet aircraft! You better really watch out! We mean business!”

    I’m sure they’ll all get the message that steamrolling over 10 million people to bring them kicking and screaming to “muh democracy” is well worth the price they have to pay. Then we can pat ourselves on the back for the awesomeness that is us.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  74. Twinkie says:
    @Talha

    We got some cooperation from Pakistan after 9/11 by threatening to annihilate it.

    In general, I am a fan of exercising power rather than force, because the use of power tends to beget more power while the use of force consumes it. But the problem with power is that, once in a while, you have to use actual force to demonstrate that the power is not hollow – pour encourager les autres. And that’s best done against an easily defeated opponent to minimize risk.

    In other words, I oppose occupations and nation-building, but occasionally support judicious punitive expeditions.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Talha
  75. Twinkie says:
    @The Alarmist

    Who is Andre Vltchek?

    • Replies: @RSDB
  76. @Twinkie

    Me: “Twinkie, how are we going to get out of this hole?”

    Twinkie: “First, let’s assume a rope. Then, …”

    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @The Alarmist
  77. iffen says:
    @Twinkie

    Twinkie, nee realpolitik.

  78. Twinkie says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Yup! My first Econ textbook had a joke about a physicist, a chemist, and an economist shipwrecked and starving and finding a can of tuna. The first two propose solutions based on their expertise and the economist shouts “I know! We will first assume there is a can opener and…”

  79. Talha says:
    @Twinkie

    And that’s best done against an easily defeated opponent to minimize risk.

    OK, and I can kick in a 5 year old’s teeth to attempt to teach an ex-boxer a lesson in how tough I am. Now, all the other 5 year olds will be super afraid of me – maybe that’s the purpose, but something tells me the ex-boxer is not going to be impressed.

    The US has an international reputation of going toe-to-toe with such tremendous foes (within my lifetime) as; Granada, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraq (after a decade of crippling sanctions). One of these days we’re possibly going to think of taking our 250-pound self out of the bantamweight division…maybe.

    but occasionally support judicious punitive expeditions.

    I get this and we did certainly liquidate a good number of both the original Taliban and al-Qaeda leadership along with thousands of Afghan civilians.

    Thus far, civilian plus military Afghan lives are well past 50,000. At what point do we say, we have killed enough exactly?

    So now, 10 million Afghan lives are theoretically on the line. What exactly is the goal in wiping them out:
    1) A retaliatory message for 9/11; if you kill around 3000 or our people, we will respond in excess of 3000% as long as you don’t really have a chance of fighting back…? Maybe this is your preferred option. Again, the likelihood is that the cost of all the ordinance that we drop will be materially more valuable than everything we destroy by multiple magnitudes.
    2) To “win”; win what exactly? Are we going to make Afghanistan the 51st state of the union and start moving Americans in there for settlement?
    3) To bring them to democracy? Is that the price we have decided they have to pay to be forced into Jeffersonian democracy?
    4) To put the Persians on notice that we are ready and willing to kill 10 million+ of them in order to bring about the preferred Middle East pecking order as desired by Israel and Saudi?

    Maybe there is a fifth option. Help me out here, I’m still not seeing it.

    I don’t know, to me, it seems the best option is to admit it was a mistake beyond the initial attack on the Taliban. Put them on notice we will attack them again if they harbor people that plan attacks on us and call it a day.

    Peace.

  80. The people who think the Earth is flat..

    Do they think the Sun and Moon are also flat? Is each one a coin with the circular surface facing us?

    Why is the slender side of nothing ever visible?

  81. iffen says:
    @Talha

    I don’t know, to me, it seems the best option is to admit it was a mistake beyond the initial attack on the Taliban. Put them on notice we will attack them again if they harbor people that plan attacks on us and call it a day.

    I like it.

  82. RSDB says:
    @Twinkie

    An author of various UR articles, some of which praise China in what, from what I have tried to quickly gather, is a rather overly effusive manner.

  83. 216 says:
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    I thought all acts of government officials were required to be made public record, unless classified under national security reasons.

    /sarc?

  84. dfordoom says: • Website
    @another fred

    My gut feeling is that Millennials and Gen Z have more blind faith in institutions than Boomers or Gen Xers.

    I would counter that the institutions that receive their faith are revolutionary institutions such as Obama’s promised “change” and the teachers whose instructions they blindly accept are those who tell them that traditional mores exist because of power, not human nature.

    Their faith is revolutionary faith rooted in lies about the nature of human life.

    It makes no difference. The point is that Millennials and Gen Z believe what the media and the schools tell them, because the indoctrination they have received has been so thorough and so intensive.

    Is it possible to break such brainwashing? My feeling is that it’s not possible unless the system starts to collapse and there’s no sign whatever that that’s likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

  85. Twinkie says:
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Welcome to the internet.

    • Agree: Talha, 216
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  86. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Talha

    The US has an international reputation of going toe-to-toe with such tremendous foes (within my lifetime) as; Granada, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraq (after a decade of crippling sanctions).

    Within my lifetime the U.S. has fought one war against an opponent capable of fighting back. That was Vietnam. That didn’t turn out so well.

    Not quite within my lifetime the U.S. went up against China, in the Korean War. China was thoroughly exhausted by thirty years of political chaos and civil wars. They basically had a peasant army. After an immense expenditure of money and blood the U.S. managed a draw, after initially suffering humiliating defeats.

    • Troll: MikeatMikedotMike
    • Replies: @216
    , @AaronB
    , @another fred
  87. @another fred

    I have a separate approval system set up for comments here. Yours will auto-approve from now on so long as you use the same email address.

    • Replies: @another fred
  88. 216 says:
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    You can delete comments within 5 minutes of poast.

  89. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Sure. Confirm by replying to this comment. If you’re pulling my leg, now’s the time to stop, because once they’re gone, they’re gone!

  90. @Twinkie

    Specifically Ron Unz’ internet. He views it as a great loss how much that was part of the national conversation in previous eras is completely unknown to all but a few scholars today. The great endeavor of his life post-software entrepreneur is digitizing as much that would otherwise be lost from the past and from the present for the sake of the curious in the future.

    • Replies: @iffen
  91. 216 says:
    @dfordoom

    T.R. Fehrenbach This Kind of War

  92. AaronB says:
    @dfordoom

    Another self-despising white person lol.

    Is there any other kind these days.

    • Replies: @216
  93. 216 says:
    @AaronB

    Pre-emptive surrender is a new kind of accelerationism.

    Conservatism Inc is about gradual surrender, minimizing a backlash. But it we adopted a policy of forfeting to SJWs on everything, that might break a few camels.

    Our theory has always been that without the KKKrazy glue, the left will eat itself.

    Perhaps we should put that to the test. Imagine dissolving the CA GOP and other Bluestan GOPs.

  94. @216

    “Our theory has always been that without the KKKrazy glue, the left will eat itself.”

    It’s a good theory. The problem is that the KKKrazy Glue is what again? Oh yeah, whites. Whites that must basically disappear before the theory can be tested.

    • Replies: @216
  95. 216 says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Zimbabwe may act as an example. After chasing away the vast majority of the remaining whites, the military removed Mugabe from office, presumably with Chinese assent. The new government is considerably more moderate, and it may be willing to take a term on the opposition benches.

    But I think we can test the theory even without physical disappearance. People and groups need enemies, with campus conservatives and Bluestan GOP names on ballot provide the bait.

    If 2022 rolls around and there is no GOP candidate for Bluestan Governor, the temptation will be incredibly high for DSA to run as their own party.

    Look at the typical campus conservative, they are entirely useless and the subject of mockery. Their time would be better spent organizing an affinity group that explicitly disavowed political involvement.

    Now imagine a campus where no one is willing to challenge the far-left. The insanity will soon leave the campus, to face a far more skeptical audience with no kulaks to blame.

  96. AaronB says:
    @216

    I suppose you might as well get it over with sooner rather than later.

    Its obvious you whites have to go through some kind of period of atonement before you can start respecting yourself again and rejoin the human race on equal terms.

    It’s an interesting phenomena, and apparently a widely shared instinct among all whites of whatever denomination. It just takes different forms – but even the most supposedly pro white alt right type, if you follow closely, will give evidence of despising whites and wishing to be humiliated, often in subtle form.

    I would not have believed these kinds of things are real unless I lived to see it with my own eyes. Its uncanny, and being religious makes it easier to accept. Indeed it only makes sense in a religious context.

    But you apparently feel a deep need to be humiliated and atone, and I guess the more you intensify this the sooner you will get it over with.

    For everyone’s benefit. It’s difficult seeing you in this state.

    • Agree: 216
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  97. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AaronB

    But you apparently feel a deep need to be humiliated and atone

    There is a difference between wanting to atone (which is usually a complete waste of time and energy) and wanting to learn from past mistakes.

    The fact is that something has gone very wrong with western civilisation. I don’t see a way to save western civilisation without trying to understand exactly what it is that’s gone wrong.

    The alt-right answer seems to be to keep waffling on about how it’s all the fault of the Jews, or the blacks, or the Freemasons, and to keep waffling on about how smart white people are and how white people are so much better than those awful darkies. To the mainstream right the answer seems to be to fight more wars against Third World nations because nothing improves one’s self-esteem more than beating up people who can’t fight back.

  98. Twinkie says:
    @Talha

    OK, and I can kick in a 5 year old’s teeth to attempt to teach an ex-boxer a lesson in how tough I am. Now, all the other 5 year olds will be super afraid of me – maybe that’s the purpose, but something tells me the ex-boxer is not going to be impressed.

    Yes, but if you were to execute a 5 year-old by shooting him in the head, I suspect a lot of people, the ex-boxer included, would be pretty bewildered and terrified of you. Purely rhetorically-speaking of course. Would you risk a fight with someone that seemingly crazy and violent?

    In any case, in the Westphalian construct of international relations, which still happens to be current and dominant paradigm, there is no “5 year-old” nation-state. All nation-states are adults – they just happen to be weak or strong adults in a world with minimal laws and behave accordingly.

    The rest of your comment is a series of straw men and highly charged emotional words, with little to no bearing what I wrote. I am rather surprised by both its content and tone.

    As Clausewitz wrote, “Der Krieg ist eine bloße Fortsetzung der Politik mit anderen Mitteln.” And the currency of policy/politics (as in war) are pressure and pain. I prefer our country uses pressure to impose our will on an unwilling target and that is often successful because we appear to be very strong, but occasionally we have to employ the infliction of pain.

    That, I am afraid, is the reality of state-to-state relations in this flawed earth of ours.

    • Replies: @Talha
  99. Twinkie says:
    @dfordoom

    To the mainstream right the answer seems to be to fight more wars against Third World nations because nothing improves one’s self-esteem more than beating up people who can’t fight back.

    More like “invade and invite” as Mr. Sailer put so aptly.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  100. Talha says:
    @Twinkie

    Only if the ex-boxer also doesn’t have a gun. In which case, you just seem crazy but no more impressive than kicking in the teeth.

    is a series of straw men

    If you say so. I still don’t see a purpose in killing off 10 million goat herders and their wives and children in your response other than; “because sometimes you have to, to send a message.”

    Again, I don’t even see a justification from a financial perspective.

    If that’s good enough for you, I suppose that’s good enough for you.

    The only thing I can think of that would happen as a result would be a massive scramble in the rest of the third world to get to North Korea deterrence levels.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Twinkie
  101. iffen says:
    @dfordoom

    The fact is that something has gone very wrong with western civilisation.

    Terribly wrong and more than one something.

    It is peculiar to me that some people try to perpetuate the idea that whites are self-hating. The Vietnam War and the Korean War can be studied and analyzed like WWII or WWI. You gave your opinion and somehow that gets translated into white self-hatred. We lost the Vietnam War. We did not achieve our objective. Communists ended up in control of the entire country. We achieved our objective in the Korean War in that South Korea was saved from communist domination.

  102. iffen says:
    @Talha

    10 million goat herders

    Hey! Hey! Hey!

    Schoolmarm?

    • LOL: Twinkie
  103. Twinkie says:
    @Talha

    I still don’t see a purpose in killing off 10 million goat herders and their wives and children

    Nowhere do I endorse this. It doesn’t meet my definition of “judicious punitive expedition.”

    The only thing I can think of that would happen as a result would be a massive scramble in the rest of the third world to get to North Korea deterrence levels.

    Yeah, Gaddafi gave up Libya’s WMD programs after being spooked by early US military action in Iraq. Look what happened to him.

    Those that feel the need for an independent deterrence are already scrambling. And even US allies such as Japan and South Korea can go nuclear very quickly.

    International relations ain’t bean bags.

    • Replies: @Talha
  104. Twinkie says:
    @iffen

    Is goat herding, per se, a dehumanizing profession?

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @RSDB
  105. Talha says:
    @iffen

    That’s actually a factual statement when it comes to Afghanistan.

    Peace.

  106. Talha says:
    @Twinkie

    Nowhere do I endorse this.

    OK, but that was the theoretical proposition in the first place based on Trump’s statements. And why we were discussing analogies like shooting a five year old.

    If you don’t endorse this, great – we agree.

    Gaddafi gave up Libya’s WMD programs after being spooked by early US military action in Iraq

    Yes because the reason we said we attacked Iraq was because of WMD. The theoretical mass killings of Afghans in the above scenario to show everyone just what we can do would give them no incentive whatsoever to do anything but go WMD or at least do something along the lines of what Saudi (and possibly Turkey) has discussed with Pakistan; which is have nukes on loan.

    Peace.

  107. @Audacious Epigone

    Thanks. I was not offended or concerned, just did not know if I had used some keyword that triggered a route to a bin of concern.

  108. iffen says:
    @Twinkie

    Is goat herding, per se, a dehumanizing profession?

    I don’t believe it to be.

    For a long time in my exchanges with Talha I had used goat herder as a stand-in for all the people left behind in the old countries who have limited economic and educational opportunties vis-a-vis those who leave for 1st world countries. Not long ago it seemed to me that perhaps Talha thought I meant something derogatory, so I said that I would stop using it and the schoolmarm agreed that stopping was a good idea. In the meantime Talha continues to use the term.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  109. @Mr. Rational

    According to reports an additional feature was the arrangement of the columns and beams in the lower floors that made the building fall in a heap rather than a partial collapse or progressive collapse. Loads from above were gathered into a rigid “box” down on lower floors that acted as a unit.

  110. AaronB says:
    @dfordoom

    I hear. Your comments are generally good, and you have more moral backbone than most here.

    And honestly searching for explanations and accepting that it has gone very wrong is very different than self fflagellation- characterizing things in highly tendentious ways for the seeming purpose of humiliating oneself.

    But unfortunately that comment cannot be seen as anything other than white self flagellation.

    But no white seems able to avoid that these days. It is a mass instinct at work. Even the blame the Jews crowd – one of the most humiliating explanations for whites I have ever seen. And of course the humiliating sense of rivalry with blacks and browns likewise.

    I think these things are deeper than all of us, and there is an oppressive spirit over whites that none can escape.

    I felt it too back when I identified as white.

    It has to run its course. I know you’re not religious, but I am, and I think this is a spiritual affliction, and a kind of chastisement and atonement, a purification.

    Eventually it will end, and you will rejoin the human race on equal terms – but only if you make a genuine spiritual “metanoia”, which is supposed to be the end result of any process of purification through suffering.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  111. @dfordoom

    We have not fought a war since 1945. All the others were “confrontations” or “police actions”, where the USA was interested in maintaining a system, not willing destroy an enemy regardless of the collateral damage (as in WWII), or risk nuclear MAD.

    Maintenance of the system is a burden that the people no longer wish to bear, but I don’t think many people are going to celebrate for long when the US is no longer the cop on the beat. The notion that the world is by nature a peaceful place is a fantasy, likewise the notion that humans are by nature a peaceful species.

  112. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    He views it as a great loss how much that was part of the national conversation in previous eras is completely unknown to all but a few scholars today.

    The man on the street doesn’t know the pre-WWII history, doesn’t know the difference between Iran and Iraq, etc. This is normal and it will not change and his digital project will not change it.

    The great endeavor of his life post-software entrepreneur is digitizing as much that would otherwise be lost from the past and from the present for the sake of the curious in the future.

    This is a “good thing” and he is to be commended for undertaking the project.

  113. @dfordoom

    The fact is that something has gone very wrong with western civilisation. I don’t see a way to save western civilisation without trying to understand exactly what it is that’s gone wrong.

    Civilization has never been an unalloyed good in any circumstance, western, eastern, or any other. That is as true as is the fact that Eden never existed. Humans have been on a long torturous journey of self-domestication. I personally have no good idea of a final destination, but most people seem to think they do.

    For a different idea about the beginnings of civilization James Scott has something to say in a book, Against the Grain. I would caution that at times he tends to be a bit romantic about “barbarians”, a fact he has been challenged about and has tried to amend with a later book, Two Cheers for Anarchism.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    , @Anounder
  114. @dfordoom

    The fact is that something has gone very wrong with western civilisation. I don’t see a way to save western civilisation without trying to understand exactly what it is that’s gone wrong.

    Civilization has never been an unalloyed good in any circumstance, western, eastern, or any other. This is as true as is the fact that Eden never existed. Humans have been on a long torturous journey of self-domestication. I personally have no good idea of a final destination, but most people seem to think they do.

    For a different idea about the beginnings of civilization James Scott has something to say in a book, Against the Grain. I would caution that at times he tends to be a bit romantic about “barbarians”, a fact he has been challenged about and has tried to amend with a later book, Two Cheers for Anarchism.

    If you don’t want to read the book most of the ideas are here.

  115. @dfordoom

    The fact is that something has gone very wrong with western civilisation. I don’t see a way to save western civilisation without trying to understand exactly what it is that’s gone wrong.

    Civilization has never been an unalloyed good in any circumstance, western, eastern, or any other. This is as true as is the fact that Eden never existed. Humans have been on a long torturous journey of self-domestication. I personally have no good idea of a final destination, but most people seem to think they do.

    For a different idea about the beginnings of civilization James Scott has something to say in a book, Against the Grain. I would caution that at times he tends to be a bit romantic about “barbarians”, a fact he has been challenged about and has tried to amend with a later book, Two Cheers for Anarchism.

    If you don’t want to read the book most of the ideas are here.

  116. Sorry for the triplication, I kept getting a message that the comment was of the wrong type and thought it was not posting.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  117. RSDB says:
    @Twinkie

    As epithets, “goatboy” is universally demeaning while “cowboy” is neutral at worst.

  118. @another fred

    You had enough time to delete the last 2.  I suggest you test that so you understand how in case you mess up again.

  119. As epithets, “goatboy” is universally demeaning while “cowboy” is neutral at worst.

    George Friedman, for one, refers to Europeans calling him, and Americans in general, a “cowboy” in a derogatory manner. I have heard the term used in a derogatory manner in my own work in the UK.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  120. I just noticed your reference —-

    That was exceedingly gracious of you –

    humbled

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  121. Twinkie says:
    @AaronB

    I felt it too back when I identified as white.

    Doesn’t Steve Sailer call this “flight from white”?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  122. AaronB says:
    @Twinkie

    He does.

    It is a real phenomenon. I exemplify it.

  123. Feryl says:
    @another fred

    This guy looks like a Boomer, and it’s funny that the most privileged generation in human history (the Boomers) so readily buys into hokum about “noble savages” and “ancient secrets” that various n0-goodniks are keeping under wraps, for some reason). Like, c’mon people. You really think it’s so awful to have clean water, reliable and fast transportation, a wide variety of good quality food available at all times, and modern medicine?

    It’s this Boomer flakiness that gives them a bad name; give it up already and stop complaining about things that have made life objectively better in many ways.

  124. Feryl says:
    @another fred

    I don’t get the “cowboy” thing, as an American. Americans in most of the Eastern US generally have nothing to do with “cowboy” culture, anyway , making the cowboy epithet all the more mystifying to American ears.

  125. Anounder says:
    @another fred

    Scott has already been taken to task for his narrative:

    https://www.thenation.com/article/barbarian-virtues/

    https://quillette.com/2017/12/16/romanticizing-hunter-gatherer/

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/im-from-pharaoh-and-here-to-help-1507763379 (calls out Scott’s weaselly way to tell what is and isn’t a state which lets him exclude the likes of Comache raiders and Mongols as states).

    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2017/11/12/disruptive-ages-happen-and-they-happen-fast/ (calls out Scott’s denial of the Dark Ages)

  126. @216

    Imagine dissolving the country!

    • Replies: @iffen
  127. @iffen

    He didn’t call them satyrs!

    • LOL: AaronB
  128. @iffen

    I seem to recall you using a different word after goat, but maybe I’m incorrect.

    • Replies: @iffen
  129. @EliteCommInc.

    It was gracious of you to note it and point it out. Thanks.

  130. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Looks like I can only go back a month. The rest is cached and I don’t have access to it. Drop Ron a line in one of his threads and he might. He does read his comments.

  131. Truth says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    How have sailors been navigating by the fixed position of The North Star for thousands of years if we are circling the sun at 66,600 mph, and the entire solar system jets, randomly through the galaxy?

  132. Truth says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Sarah saw Russia with hers.

  133. Violetta says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    The false belief in a flat earth is far, far less destructive and immiserating than the false belief in blank slatism.

    Copernicanism and blank slatism flow from the same well: metaphysical humanism, i. e. making man the measure of all things.

    Regarding terminology, while I respect your Copernican convictions, please be aware that “flat earth” is a derogatory expression; the proper term is simply “classical cosmology”. The relative flatness of Earth – something every geodesist learns about during his first year of study – is the least of modern cosmology’s many problems.

  134. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Maybe we need exile, gulags and re-education camps (worked for the Bolsheviks).When the Borg achieves full control, they will eliminate the death penalty, so what else could they do with us?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  135. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    I think that I used goatherd a few times. I am actually pretty good about not using de-humaninzing language. I try to get edgy with some mild sterotype references at times.

  136. Sparkon says:
    @Mr. Rational

    It has long been known that an uncontrolled fire will collapse a steel-framed building.

    No it hasn’t. What has been known for a long time is steel-framed buildings are virtually impervious to collapse no matter how intense the fire. And yes, I can prove that.

    In any event, there were no uncontrolled fires in WTC 7 on 9/11/2001.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  137. @iffen

    I have a strong back. They won’t turn me into glue for a decade yet. If they let me play cards a couple of nights a week, it won’t be so bad…

  138. Mocking flatists is racial dog whistling.

    That sounds like it means people who fart, perhaps in tune like le Pétomane.

    Planists has a much nicer sound, more respectful. Or perhaps antisphaericist.

  139. That was a fun video, thanks.

  140. @Sparkon

    there were no uncontrolled fires in WTC 7 on 9/11/2001.

    Video of the WTC7 fire.  Where have you BEEN for the last 18 years?  How can you say such insanely wrong things?

  141. “That was a fun video, thanks.”

    If you mean the Vsauce video — I thought so as well.

    ____________________________________________

    I stumbled across while looking at lecture on “Never Caught”, also something I stumbled on while looking for a record about Pres. Washington.

    But I think it reflects a larger problem that no one is really discussing. The ability for more people to have access to more voices on information with an immediacy and scope never in history. When i was a kid. Computers were these huge bulky electrical houses used to send men to the moon. If I wanted to learn more about it, I marched off to the library, assuming I could get a ride or catch the bus. I could ask one of my teachers. But today, push a button and there is it is. Not can i read about it, but there are videos, and audio to enhance the learning. When Dr, Blumer explicated Dr. Meade’s Symbolic meaning the variables in human construction were wide bur relatively narrow, Parents, family, church, school, community, etc. And of no less important, it was usually directed by others until late teens or early twenties.

    The nexus of information control has been lifted. The history of the US, who we are and how got here is no longer in control of the traditional gate keepers. Now anyone who wants to take a peek at history can just open a hand held computer and get a view other than what they had previously been told. And in the case of our color history — let’s be honest, a lot of white, black, yellow kids feel like they have been bamboozled.

    Clearly there’s a lot of bad information out there. And there is also information that should handled in controlled environments in which knowledgeable people can provide some perspective. I think that formal education is invaluable. No less so than educated adults who are grounded enough to wrestle with that knowledge with some objective understanding/grounding.

    Broken record: and why I think the “Vietnam era” is the most important period as it laid the groundwork for what passes for discussion and argument and nearly all of it is careless and “damaging.”

    • Replies: @Feryl
  142. Amended:

    Broken record: and why I think the “Vietnam era” is the most important period as it laid the groundwork for what passes for discussion and argument and nearly all of it is careless and “damaging,” backwards, distortion, outright lies and flat out: backwards and wrong.

  143. anonymous[252] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Might be a good place to dump all the illegals, particularly the ones whose countries won’t take them back.

  144. Feryl says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Don’t be such a luddite; at any rate, back in the 1970’s a lot of people believed a lot of deeply retarded stuff about spirituality, philosophy, etc. Sure there was some good stuff mixed in (like recognizing the danger of too much population growth) but it had to sifted from all the flaky horse-shit that all sorts of wannabe “gurus” and “spiritualists” (and various would be “guides”) were pushing at the time. Beginning in the 80’s, we had the good sense to reject a lot of the inane and destructive crap that the “Age of Aquarius” exposed us to (although, unfortunately, society also bought into some “new” stuff that wasn’t all that great either, in the 80’s; but then, no era is perfect I suppose, and how an era measures up is to some extent based on personal taste and preference).

    Our judgement is affected by a lot of things, but I personally am not concerned about people being exposed to “too much” info. We all have the free will to choose what we will find credible, and what we won’t. And hopefully we have peers steering us in the right direction.

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