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Commenter SFG on demographic differences in American sentiments on Saudi Arabia:

They’re like Israel, only worse.

Pithy profundity. The correlation between net sentiments* on Saudi Arabia and net sentiments on Israel across the demographic groups presented here is a fairly robust .66. The gaps between groups is similar, albeit shifted substantially more positive across the board for Israel relative to Saudi Arabia.

The truly staggering, if depressingly predictable, correlation of -.95 comes by way of comparing sentiments on Israel with sentiments on Iran. Given the survey’s structure, this reveals an essentially perfect inverse relationship between how people feel about Israel and how they feel about Iran. The more positive they are about the former, the more negative they are about the latter.

It’s impossible not to notice the almost perfect symmetry.


* Calculated as follows: (1.5*%Ally)+(0.5*%Friendly)-(0.5*%Unfriendly)-(1.5*Enemy).

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Israel 
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  1. Talha says:

    That age 18-29 demographic is probably the most interesting; it may just be because the youth of every group are like this, but they are the least enamored with Israel and the least hostile to Iran. Is the future going to reflect this in our policies?

    Would love to see a bigger sample size though…🤔

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  2. I am not sure what one would expect after 9/11. No state whose government is based or centered on Islam is going to fare well in the US or any western country.

    • Replies: @Nodwink
    , @Bill Jones
  3. I personally can’t stand any of them.

  4. Twinkie says:

    I happen to like the Israelis (esp. Sabras) in general. They are Mentschen. I enjoyed their company and liked working with them (though I was and am under no illusion of what guides their actions – the interests of their country, and rightly so). I just wish my fellow Americans were as loyal to our country as they are to theirs.

    Diaspora Jews, on the other hand… The Israeli strategist and military historian Martin van Creveld once described them as “men without chests.”

    • Replies: @PorkTastic
  5. alexander says:

    The US Government just passed a law essentially making it a crime if you “don’t” like Israel.

    The US Government just passed a law declaring “Iran” a terrorist state, which means that anyone who might “like ” Iran , could be considered a “terrorist” sympathizer.

    Even if every single American citizen DESPISED Israel, down to their core,….. and LOVED Iran, with all their heart ….Do you really believe they would ever TELL you……if you polled them ?

    Give me a break.

    • Agree: pyrrhus, Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    , @Wally
  6. The media environment creates this. There is a nonstop stream of jewish media propaganda, aimed primarily at liberal elites. Mondoweiss dissects this beautifully:

    https://mondoweiss.net/2019/10/israelis-were-saddened-to-have-to-kill-gaza-protesters-to-avert-bloodbath/

    The dumb redneck goyim will swallow whatever Fox News will tell them, so much less effort is spent on them.

  7. “Everybody loves Israel.”

    (And, “The check is in the mail” and “I will respect you in the morning.”)

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  8. @Twinkie

    Diaspora Jews are doing what diaspora Jews have done since millenia, ad infinitum. Wrecking the host societies to make sure they call the shots which ultimately leads to collapse and then it’s the next superpower they’ll jump ship to

    Perhaps that explains why Adelson is so keen on expanding in China and perhaps that is why nuttyyahoo is keen to develop more “robust” relationship with the middle kingdom

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  9. watershed moment for the sentiments regarding Israel

    The 1972 Olympic Games. That the incident started in Munich and ended in tragedy — played out live in real time — shattered sympathies for Palestinians or states in the region in general.

    Unlike the British and French(?), who experience their acts of terrorism, or the Palestinians, the issue of ethnic cleansing, most of the world came to lens in on Israel or Jews via that that week.

  10. Realist says:
    @Thulean Friend

    The dumb redneck goyim will swallow whatever Fox News will tell them, so much less effort is spent on them.

    As well as the shitlibs swallow what ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN and PBS tell them.

    The Deep State doesn’t care about the unimportant internecine squabbles of the ‘two parties’ as long as their important issues are maintained. As a matter of fact it strengthens the false perception that there is a choice when voting.

    • Agree: Nodwink
  11. TheJester says:

    The numbers show that Deep State propaganda purveyed by the MSM over the decades has been very effective in herding the sheeple toward specific social and political beliefs.

    I recall the pro-Israeli propaganda in the 1960s that “documented” that the Jews were not stealing land from the Arabs in Palestine, they were taking empty desert and “making the desert bloom”.

    What would one expect from a society in which the population, as a practice, is glued to “boob tubes” (a.k.a.devices) that it mistakes for reality; graduates from dumbed-down universities with sensitive, diverse, and politically-correct curriculums; gets its news from Facebook … and no longer bothers to read forbidden books for exposure to alternative points of view?

    We’ve already reached the tipping point. The End is Nigh!

  12. Potential topic for AE to explore if the data is out there –

    As USA European-heritage people, sort out these issues about white identity, the demographic changes soon to result in a majority-minority USA etc –

    Am noticing a rather big overall gulf between the older ‘core’ white Americans, of Anglo-Germanic Protestant stock, versus the newer white arrivals from largely Roman Catholic countries, the Mediterranean lands and Eastern Europe

    The older Americans of English, Scottish, Dutch, German, Scandinavian heritages, really became somewhat of a ‘new’ people different from those they left behind in the old world … and today, it is these people who are much more troubled about what will come to pass

    Whereas the Mediterraneans and Eastern Europeans in the USA, in some ways always stayed ‘-hyphenated’, somewhat second-class, and less clearly different than their European forebears

    Most significantly, it seems Mediterraneans and Eastern Europeans are less involved in or caring re USA ‘white identitarianism’, as they were never ‘core Americans’ anyway

    So their general view is, if the USA gets really rough and becomes a Latin-America-type high-crime, high-conflict but ‘diverse’ society, they will simply pack up sticks again

    A good number of Mediterrean and Eastern European heritage Americans, are already beginning to go home to Europe, where they can often recover European citizenship through ancestry … For all the issues in Europe re migrants etc, EU countries remain far more ‘European’ stock percentage wise, than the USA

    It also seems easier for the ‘alt-whites’ (Med. & E Eur origin) retired on pensions, to reside outside the USA, which was never quite fully ‘their’ homeland, in the same way it was for the ‘core’ Anglo-Germanic Protestants

  13. Sean says:

    When you talk about Saudi Arabia you are talking about Petrodollars. Saudi Arabia and Iran have both been hit very hard by low cost fracked energy from American technology and capital (low interest rates) and now neither the Saudis or Iranians can afford a new war. If CO2 fracking becomes a reality, then Saudi Arabia might get back its position of importance, but Iran already has not a useful friend in the world. China is not going to annoy America for anything,but it own mercantilist trade and industrial espionage interests, especially while Trump is still in power and able to do something drastic to slow down China growth.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/iran-chinese-state-oil-firm-withdraws-5bn-deal-191006191347427.html

    Iran has not got a nuclear weapon yet the US has nor even bothered have not been invaded, which just goes to show they are more of a nuisance than anything. When no one wants to mess with America, where is Iran going get oils and gas customers from? They can be economically throttled, slowly, but surely and they will not have a useable nuke in time to do anything about it. There is no possibility of conventional military action against a major nuclear power like China: much too much of a risk it the loser would rort to a thermonuclear secimin strike and begin an unstoppable escalation to an full exchange. So the main threat to the West will have to be solved by economic means; against China at this late stage it may not even be possible.

    Instead of worrying about the Middle East, people in the West should concern themselves with how to stop China becoming the most powerful country in the world. Israel is not that, although with all their enemies bought off or crushed by the US, it is an appealing explanation for those who think universal peace and human rights and avoiding encroaching on other countries’ legitimate interests, or interfering in their internal affairs, is the natural state of the world. There never has been, and never could have been (without something much worse like an alien invasion from outer space) such a geopolitical climate.

    • Replies: @WHAT
    , @Rev. Spooner
  14. Nodwink says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The fact that countries who did 9/11 are mildly unpopular/wildly popular, while the country that is no threat to the USA is widely hated, is a testament to the power of propaganda.

    • Replies: @Ash Williams
  15. Jews and Arabs are two sides of the same coin, but most people pick heads over tails when it is flipped.

    • Replies: @Per/Norway
  16. @EliteCommInc.

    Pray tell, what “terrorism” have the English “experienced” in any way aside from enacting Lloyd George’s policy of “unofficial” burnings of Irish civilian targets?

    • Replies: @Sean
  17. The Jacksonian foreign policy response to Israel and Iran and their brawl for regional supremacy would be to let them fight it out and keep the US military out of it. Of course, the American Empire and the US military have bases all around Iran and the US military might get dragged into any military conflict between Israel and Iran.

    The answer is to make it clear that the US military is in the Middle East and the Persian Gulf for the oil and not Israel.

    The American Empire has one three letter word interest in the Middle East: O — I — L

    The three letter word J — E — W should not be a consideration whatsoever.

    Shelly Adelson and Paul Singer and Bernard Marcus and other Republican Party Jew billionaire donors who push an Israel First foreign policy for the Republican Party politician whores must be told to go straight to Hell.

    White Core America, the new patriotic political party on the rise in the USA, will make it clear that the US military will only be deployed to advance the interests of the United States of America.

    The treasonous scum in the Bush Organized Crime Syndicate led by George HW Bush and George W Bush dragged the American Empire into two disastrous wars in the Middle East to advance the foreign policy interests of Israel at the expense of the foreign policy interests of the USA. That is TREASON!

    NO MORE WARS FOR ISRAEL!

    Tweets from 2015:

  18. neutral says:

    It is encouraging that with each generation the support for that disgusting entity decreases.

    I also have to ask the question how of the “support” is based on fear, to not support Israel is like not openly showing support for Kim Jong Un in North Korea, the consequences of not supporting the ruling regime can have severe consequences. Many would never risk openly being against Israel even if the the survey was sold as anonymous.

    • Agree: LondonBob
    • Replies: @AaronB
  19. WHAT says:
    @Sean

    China is the main client for Iran oil.
    And no, you won’t stop it.

    • Replies: @Sean
  20. Sean says:
    @WHAT

    Two weeks ago the US placed Chinese companies under sanctions for merely transporting Iranian oil, so now no one in the world will now use those scores of tankers again. It is good if China does not stop buying from Iran, because China is the future nemesis of the West that no one really knows about while Iran is just a noisy pest.

  21. Sean says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/10/article/iranian-oil-exports-hinge-on-us-china-trade-talks/

    There, you are back on topic in this thread. And if the Auxiliaries (who were all ex army officers) summarily shot dead two civilians in Cork, so what? Civilian does not mean noncombatant.

  22. “The fact that countries who did 9/11 are mildly unpopular/wildly popular, while the country that is no threat to the USA is widely hated, is a testament to the power of propaganda.”

    To be clear —

    I support Israel’s right to exist and to a self defense.

    I do not support everything she does and i agree that she has more influence over US policy to the nation’s detriment.

    My point is this, the sympathy for Israel is not merely a “chrstian ethos”. As I reflect on the same from a grander schema, I was reminded of several events that damaged the the concerns of the Islamic world regarding Israeli ambitions.

    Now I have been open to the possibility that 9/11 was in fact an act by players other than the noted. However, to date the evidence relies heavily on speculation. Even the recent collapse scenario does dismiss that building 7 collapsed as the result of the direct impact from the Twin s collapsing. And that is supported by video footage cameras from the buildings.

    ——————————-

    “Spot the non-sequitur.”

    I am unsure is this pertains to my comment or something else. The article is about the sentiment gap between Islamic states and Israel (i could have that wrong, but that is my take)

    Stepping back, from merely the view of say people of faith — there are other factors in the modern world that work to foster sympathy for Israel and the Munich incident came to mind.

  23. “Pray tell, what “terrorism” have the English “experienced” in any way aside from enacting Lloyd George’s policy of “unofficial” burnings of Irish civilian targets?”

    Let’s stay in context here.

    We are not talking about Irish an d England historical dynamics. The article poses the question about Israel and Saudi Arabia (islamic states in general) and the sentiment divide. And in that regard Few outside of Palestine, the French(?) and great Britain have experienced violent acts resulting from Israeli ambitions. And as such the western world would note incidents such as Munich as nexus for sympathy with Israel.

    If were talking Great Britain and the Ireland that would be another issue, and unrelated directly with Israeli/Islamic state perceptions.

    Context matters

    The English in their reasoned attempt to gradually manage the Israeli/Palestinian issue with some care for all parties, were hard pressed by the violence of Israel, that included multiple acts of terror.

    ———————

    Since most of the west has no such experiences, with Israel, but have experienced multiple acts among Islamic countries — the view would as of by definition of the same be negative. And what goodwill might have been for Saudi Arabia, after 9/11 would hard hit.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  24. Granted should it become clear that Israel did in fact, engage in bringing down the Twin Towers — those sympathies will change catastrophically — spiraling into a very deep black hole.

    But as of yet, that case has not been established by the evidence. Plenty of suspicion, speculation, unanswered questions, plausibilities, etc. — but one needs more to make that case

  25. @Sean

    China is not the most powerful country, neither is the the USA. The title belongs to Israel. If a parasite controls the host, then it is. The host may deny it but events such as 911, USS Liberty, Epstein blackmail ring run by Mossad, etc., prove it. Is Russia also infected? Only time will tell.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  26. @Thulean Friend

    Isn’t Mondoweiss a Jewish site? And what about the Unz Review?

    • Replies: @anon
  27. Israel is a rancid millstone client state of the American Empire.

    Israel is a strategic liability that undercuts and undermines the foreign policy interests of the American Empire.

    Israel must be completely and totally cut off from any contact or connection to the United States of America and the American Empire and the US military.

    The US military must no longer be used as muscle to fight wars on behalf of the millstone client state of Israel.

    The Treasonous politician whores in the Republican Party are completely and totally controlled by Jewry Organized Globally(JOG). Billionaire Jews such as Shelly Adelson and Paul Singer and Bernard Marcus have bought and paid for the Israel First foreign policy of President Trump and the rest of the politician whores in the Republican Party.

    Andrew Jackson and George Washington would never allow a millstone client state such as Israel to control the foreign policy of the USA.

    Israel must be severed from any contact or connection with any intelligence activities or intelligence information sharing or any contact with federal, state or local law enforcement in the USA.

    Republican Party politician whores such as Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley and Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham and Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell and many others who put the interests of Israel ahead of the interests of the USA must be removed from power.

    Thousands of US soldiers were killed in George W Bush’s Iraq War debacle. Tens of thousands of US soldiers were horribly wounded, maimed, burned, butchered and mentally broken by George W Bush’s Iraq War debacle.

    George W Bush is a treasonous little rich boy who put the interest of Israel ahead of the interests of the USA when he dragged the US military into the Iraq War debacle.

    George W Bush used the US military as muscle to fight the Iraq War debacle on behalf of the millstone client state of Israel.

    Tweets from 2015:

  28. @Talha

    That age 18-29 demographic is probably the most interesting; it may just be because the youth of every group are like this, but they are the least enamored with Israel and the least hostile to Iran. Is the future going to reflect this in our policies?

    Racial Composition Of Cohorts.

    The vast majority of Americans born in the USA before 1965 were and are White.

    The percentage of non-Whites in the cohort born after 1990 is of a nation-wrecking size.

    Whether they were born in the USA is significant too.

    The only thing holding the USA together is monetary extremism from the globalized Federal Reserve Bank.

    I say raise the federal funds rate to 20 percent like it was in 1981. That will implode the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate and it will financially liquidate the White Baby Boomers. After the White Baby Boomers are financially liquidated — and a few million White Baby Boomers are forcibly exiled to sub-Saharan Africa, that will be when the USA can deport — using citizenship revocations and the like — at least 70 million foreigners and their spawn.

  29. @Brabantian

    Here’s my experience.

    The white ethnics are far more likely to notice, and to complain about, the mass immigration of 3rd world aliens into our countries.

    On the flip side, they are also much more likely to simply leave and move back to Europe.

    I have noticed an increase in “white” people, who I previously thought of as white, suddenly becoming Serb nationalists, or an increased gulf between Russians and Anglo-Canadians, for instance.

    Honestly, I can’t blame them. They chose to come to a country founded on WASP ideals. They did basically assimilate into this country. But now, the WASPs are totally failing and shitting the bed. I’d rather live in relative poverty, amongst my own people in Croatia, than be rich in this hell-hole multi-cult atomized alien society like Canada.

    I say go, be free and go save your homeland. Don’t stick around with us loony WASP liberals. The 5% of woke WASPs here will manage whatever rearguard action. We have nowhere to go: England is quite rapidly getting just as bad as us. So is AUS, USA, NZ, and SA is already gone.

  30. >Comes on thread
    >Sees Pewitt, Elitecomm making most of the comments

    >Immediately leaves.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  31. AaronB says:
    @neutral

    In the 90s I remember pretty much every European I met was rabidly anti-Israel, and anti-American. It was really quite strange and remarkable the ferocious hatred Europeans had to both groups, and it was obviously a psychological complex for them.

    Today, I am far more likely to encounter actual admiration for America and a desire to move there, and serious anti-Israel sentiment is rare and diminishing.

    In America, anti-Americanism and anti-Israel sentiment – having the same source, opposition to a robust, assertive Western state – has always been common among the idealistic young, who tend to lean Left and attribute all the problems in the world to the West and idealize the “other” – until they realize sadly, the “other” is just as capable of aggression and bad behavior as the West.

    It’s s natural process, and as more of the “other” pour into America and it becomes impossible to idealize them and put them on a pedestal – familiarity breeds contempt – there will be less initial anti-American and anti-Israel sentiment.

  32. Everybody Loves Israel

    A foreign policy expert from Nutbush, Tennessee, once asked the most important question in the formulation of foreign policy: WHAT’S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT?

    INTERESTS IS EVERYTHING IN FOREIGN POLICY!

    The rancid treasonites in the Republican Party put the interests of Israel ahead of the interests of the United States of America.

    White Core America — the new political party on the march — will always put the interests of the USA ahead of the interests of other nations and regions and diasporan Jew troublemakers who try to drag the USA into wars on behalf of Israel.

    A woman from Connecticut — with ancestry from Kentucky — was once so exasperated by all the Republican Party presidential primary candidates pandering to evangelical voters and Israel First Jew donors in a debate that she let loose with a Tweet that made me bust out laughing in agreement.

    Nutbush, Tennessee, is far from New Canaan, Connecticut, but the ladies from there have some grit and talent.

    Israel is a millstone client state of the American Empire, and it must be quarantined before it causes any more trouble.

    If you want a robust global presence for the American Empire without endless and unnecessary war for Israel, then you should support the White Core America political party instead of the rancid treasonites in the Republican Party who put the interests of Israel first.

    I’m just reading on the internet now how rancid treasonites in the Republican Party such as Lindsey Graham and Willard Mitt Romney and unassimilated interlopers such as Marco Rubio are basically saying that the American Empire must fight forever wars on behalf of Israel. Screw Off Republican Party!

    Tweet from 2015:

  33. The billionaire Israel First Jew donors to the rancid Republican Party — such as Shelly Adelson and Paul Singer and Bernard Marcus — who have bought and paid for the Israel First foreign policy of the Republican Party are also the nation-wreckers who are screaming bloody murder for more and more mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and multicultural mayhem.

    Jew billionaire Republican Party donors want to continue to use mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration as demographic weapons to attack and destroy the European Christian ancestral core of the United States of America.

    Jew billionaire Republican Party donors want to continue to use the US military as muscle to fight wars on behalf of Israel.

    Jew billionaire Republican Party donors are leading plutocrat members of the hostile JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire.

    Tweet from 2015:

  34. @MikeatMikedotMike

    zionists and wahabis are two sides of the same coin..
    Lebanon is on example of a Arab country Syria is another Yemen etc that oppose the zionist, wahabi, US led wars/proxy wars and opression in Arab countries..
    so your blanket statement is not very helpful or insightful tbh.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  35. Mulegino1 says:

    The former United States of America have now become the Jewnited Estados of Gaymerica.

    The counter-culture of Antichrist is now what largely defines Dumbmerican identity, i.e., debt slavery, moral perversion.

    The categorical moral imperative of the Dumbmerican prole is the three fold worship of global homo, Israel/Holohoax, and negrophilia in media and spectacle.

    How perverse is it that we have publicly funded Holohoax museums, enormous taxpayer funded largesse to benefit Der ewige Jude and his criminal compound in the Levant and the fact that the only man to have a holiday in his exclusive honor was a raping, looting and incendiary plagiarist?

    Our national spectacle is the Stupor Bowl, a kosher ritual glorifying consumerism, the Africanization of our “culture” and Dumbmerican hyper-jingoism, i.e., the giant flag and the taxpayer subsidized flyover of military jets.

    Our nation currently has three capitals- Wall St., DC, and Hymiewood- i.e., Mamon, Moloch, and Belial.

    • LOL: Ash Williams
    • Replies: @will of d
  36. will of d says:
    @Mulegino1

    +100000

    i wish we could nuke it to the grounds

  37. “The former United States of America have now become the Jewnited Estados of Gaymerica.”

    Ok, even I found this funny enough to

    ROFL

    and by all means we should prevent become Soddom or Gomorrah or being annexed to Mexico

  38. @Thulean Friend

    Yes, Americans have been indoctrinated. Welcome to Zombieland.

    But Fox News is just one pro-Zionist news outlet among many. The hawks and neocons (and liberal interventionists) are everywhere, throughout all of television and at the top of both political Parties.

    Yes, there is some anti-Israel sentiment percolating among far left Dems, but their anti-white and far left economic agendas mean that these radicals will be wandering in the political wilderness indefinitely.

    Meanwhile, back in mainstream-land, there is not one Presidential candidate that is ‘anti-Zionist’ (or even ‘isolationist’) because none exists. Not one. This includes Bernie and Tulsi. Why? It would be political suicide. And the ‘far right’ has no voice at all. Even anything-for-Israel Trump is often smeared as ‘fascist or ‘far right’.

    America’s marketplace of ideas covers a very narrow strata. Wandering off the pro-Zionist plantation is simply not allowed.

    Thus Jewish nationalism (Zionism) is beautiful to Americans whereas white nationalism is beyond the pale. Amazing but true. This strange duality has not occurred by accident.

    Only the Zions (with their domination of media, finance and both Parties) can pull off this moral sleight-of-hand. Meanwhile, ‘centrist’ pro-Zionist Republicans (and many white male Democrats) wonder what’s happening to their country.

    Crypto-Zionist influence in America helps explains the Republican (and media) backlash that erupted today against Trump over his announced intention of pulling US troops out of Syria–even though polling data indicates that US troop reduction throughout that entire region is favored by most voters.

    Why the political disconnect? Israel does not want US troops pulled out of Syria as long as Assad remains in power. When Israel talks, DC listens.

    Therefore, Trump’s sensible de-escalation will likely be criticized by most TV talking heads, most editorial boards, and resisted in Washington a rare, bi-partisan fashion.

    Incredibly, Israel–despite its well-recorded espionage against the US, it’s indirect interference in US elections, it’s sordid role in orchestrating US/NATO’s destruction of Iraq and Libya, and it’s abysmal human rights record–still receives positive overall treatment by all mainstream US media. All.

    One obvious reason that older Americans favor Israel more than young ones is that older Americans have received in the course of their lives many more decades of pro-Zionist indoctrination.

  39. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Dark Night

    Isn’t an Israeli a human being just like Hitler Stalin and Saddam were? Doesnt he eat sleep and take shower use soaps sends children to school and laze around house on week end watching TV just like any Saudis or Iranian do ?

  40. Jay Fink says:
    @alexander

    I like Iran for a couple of different reasons. They are the enemy of my worst country…Saudi Arabia. Also I have a feeling Iran will eventually become a secular country, from what I have read the younger generations of Iranians are not fans of fundementalism. I would proudly tell a pollster that I like Iran.

  41. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Does CNN or Fox or BBC has the pictures of the Gazan children amputated , disfigured,burnt,and disemboweled by IDF ?

    Destroy it first because one day the the actions might be reciprocated .

  42. @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    That’s why you ignore them; it makes them very easy to skip.  Only if someone worth reading replies to them do you have any real reason to click back and see what they said.

  43. @Nodwink

    The fact that countries who did 9/11 are mildly unpopular/wildly popular, while the country that is no threat to the USA is widely hated, is a testament to the power of propaganda.

    Agree, but that seems to be waning.

    It’s tough to control a narrative when your Mighty Wurlitzer https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol52no2/intelligence-in-recent-public-literature-1.html got smashed into a thousand pieces, and scattered to the wind…

  44. SFG says:

    Ironically, I’m not *that* anti-Israel; I just wish they’d quit manipulating our country into wars. If we quit the financial aid I might even buy a few bonds as a private citizen.

    My point was more that Saudi Arabia does all the things the alt-right and most of the left accuse Israel of (in many cases correctly), but on top of that don’t even give rights to most of their citizens and wage even more brutal proxy wars.

    Iran? Why on earth would I root for an Islamic theocracy that calls the USA ‘the Great Satan’? (Actual Iranians I have no quarrel with.)

    Syria? How many of his own people has Assad killed?

    As far as I’m concerned, Israel is the wife-beater in a bar filled with child murderers. The question is where American interests are at this point.

  45. @Per/Norway

    A bicycle isn’t very helpful to a donkey, either.

  46. @Kolya Krassotkin

    I admittedly respect Israel.

    But I respect Bohemond of Antioch, too, so maybe that explains some of it!

    One very mildly pro-Israel viewpoint in a sea of otherwise hostile ones at UR is not going to make any difference.

    • Replies: @SFG
    , @silviosilver
  47. @Brabantian

    Interesting, though once you get to millennials, white Americans really are European mutts.

  48. @Rev. Spooner

    If Israel is that good then we are best to join them, then, since we’re obviously not going to be able to beat them.

    • Replies: @PorkTastic
    , @Rev. Spooner
  49. “Does CNN or Fox or BBC has the pictures of the Gazan children amputated , disfigured,burnt,and disemboweled by IDF ?”

    I have no idea what this is response to. It is disconnected from anything I have referenced. But it is rare that any programming in the US is sympathetic to the issues of Palestinians.

    My the central point of my positions has been – that Islamic countries have engaged in retaliation against Jews and westerners outside of Islamic regions — that is very bad press. And its bad press even if you want to make an argument that the west is complicit in supporting problematic behaviors against Islamic states.

    Hence some rationale for the survey data. no to mention that most Jews are from Europe and like it or not — white

  50. @Charles Pewitt

    Citizen revocations? Wouldn’t political dissolution be a lot easier and fairer?

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    , @Lot
  51. SFG says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Everywhere else in the media you can’t say anything bad about Israel, so here nobody says anything good.

    Realistically, it’s a country, they pursue their own interests, sometimes they coincide with ours, sometimes they don’t. The real problem is they have way too much influence.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  52. @Audacious Epigone

    One doesn’t join one’s “betters”. America is Israel’s dog on a leash. No matter how good a dog is, he’ll never be the master’s son. Looking at the chain of events starting from USS liberty, the JFK fiasco, the federal reserver scam and then 9/11, followed by a series of wars against Israel’s nemesis in the region with our blood and treasure, I doubt our ‘handlers’ think of us anything more than a slave thugs (much much lower than even hired guns). And I am not even taking into account the fraudulent manner in which America was dragged into WWII

    And as experience has taught us anything, they’ve always left the sinking ship (which started sinking due to the malfeasance of those very same people) once the work is done. Imperial Russia didn’t have mass pogroms of the Jews yet they exterminated millions of Christians (and other groups) since the Tsar confined the Polish Jews to the pale. Those chosenites never forgive or forget it seems and they want to make sure the white race is eradicated from the earth or so it looks

  53. LondonBob says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Israeli terrorism against Britain has always provided a strong basis to the negative attitudes to Israel here, despite the overwhelming impact of American media. Indeed when I see an alt right personality here in Britain doing Israeli boosterism it just seems very odd and you ask who is backing this lady.

  54. LondonBob says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    Young White Republicans don’t like Israel, it isn’t a racial divide at that age cohort.

    • Replies: @SFG
  55. Renoman says:

    Americans are such a stupid illiterate hoard, just so embarrassing. The education system must be a complete disaster.

  56. This has nothing to do with the fact that Jews own and control Western MSM, politicians, the money supply, publishing houses, and consequently, the culture.

    Still waiting for Conservatives to conserve something.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  57. @Renoman

    Israelis/Mossad murdered JFK, attacked the USS Liberty, and did 9/11. Jewish Zionist fanatics helped cause/prolong two world wars which killed 100s of millions of people worldwide. Israel spies on us and steals our military and business secrets then sells them to other countries. They interfere and rig our elections. Israel is known as the safe haven for pedophiles, white slavers, and banksters escaping justice. They are in no way our friend or ally. That most Americans know none of this proves your point. Americans are the most misinformed people in history.

  58. SFG says:
    @LondonBob

    I wouldn’t be terribly surprised, but do you have any evidence?

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  59. @Audacious Epigone

    Citizen revocations? Wouldn’t political dissolution be a lot easier and fairer?

    Both citizenship revocations and political dissolution could be used to restore honor and liberty to the USA.

    California’s state government system and municipal government system and county government system could be dissolved, along with all the debt and future liabilities they have, and then California could be depopulated back down to about 15 million residents from the current 40 million.

    California is under attack from environmentally-destructive mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and the population carrying capacity of California has reached its limit. True environmentalists understand that environmentally-destructive population growth caused by mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration is doing great damage to California in many ways.

    The plutocrats in California, especially the foreigners, could be financially liquidated and removed from the USA.

    California must not be consigned to permanent Democrat Party occupation. Texas must not be allowed to fall victim to the dark forces of multicultural mayhem that have overtaken California.

    Debt repudiation to me is the most vital component of political dissolution, because the political power to accumulate and issue debt — whether as currency or bribes to certain cohorts — is so strong.

    I would focus on Malibu to begin citizenship revocations and asset liquidations to make an example of the pampered plutocrat Democrat Party people who live there.

    Some of the people who need to be dealt with with firm patriotic measures are the people who currently reside in Malibu. They are people who need people and I’ve had about enough of them and their damn plutocrat hypocrisy and plutocrat attacks on regular American of modest means.

    Debt and demography are inevitably leading the USA towards political dissolution and citizenship revocations and mass deportations of foreigners.

    GOD BLESS THE USA!

    • Replies: @Talha
  60. Talha says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    California could be depopulated back down to about 15 million residents from the current 40 million.

    You realize that the “could” in that statement involves the removal of not a minority, but a majority of the state’s population, right? How will this be accomplished in the real world?

    I guess Malibu is a start to see if this has any traction.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  61. “Israeli terrorism against Britain has always provided a strong basis to the negative attitudes to Israel here, despite the overwhelming impact of American media.”

    And had more western countries had that experience the survey numbers between Saudia Arabia and Israel would be different. I have no doubt that experience by Great Britain had impacts on the British psyche’.

  62. @Talha

    You realize that the “could” in that statement involves the removal of not a minority, but a majority of the state’s population, right? How will this be accomplished in the real world?

    You could use a variety of ways to get the population of California back to about 15 million. All it would take is the grim determination to do it.

    When the Global Financial Implosion comes back around the mountain again, that will be the time to properly align the population of California with its carrying capacity using sensible and common sense environmentally-friendly policies to readjust downward the population of California.

    Barges and boats and ships and planes and trains and other forms of conveyance could be used to accomplish the environmentally-advantageous goal of reducing the population of California back to 15 million.

    • Replies: @Talha
  63. @Audacious Epigone

    Unfortunately Mr Audacious Epigone, most of us are moral and not for sale.

  64. Talha says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    You could use a variety of ways to get the population of California back to about 15 million. All it would take is the grim determination to do it.

    Well, I guess it would be prudent to have them dig their own mass graves first, because you’d have a hell of a manpower shortage afterward. Just saying, gotta put the cart before the horse.

    Barges and boats and ships and planes and trains and other forms of conveyance could be used

    Sure – but my question was not one of transport logistics. It was more along the lines of; how does a minority in a state expunge a majority (almost twice its size) – whether legally or otherwise?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Charles Pewitt
  65. KR says:

    Charles,

    Perhaps Baja California is the answer. Push the foreign population of California southward to the “other” California. It’s lightly populated, has a lovely shoreline (no water, though) and is indigenously similar to the people we need to displace.

    Mexico has given us 15% of their population. We’ll take 15% of their land to which that population can be returned.

  66. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Meant to say:
    “…gonna put the cart before the horse.”

  67. @Talha

    Sure – but my question was not one of transport logistics. It was more along the lines of; how does a minority in a state expunge a majority (almost twice its size) – whether legally or otherwise?

    You just get some European Christian men from the Great Lakes states and the Southern states and the New England states and the Mountain West states and the Pacific Northwest states and the mid-Atlantic states and you remove the foreigners and offbrands and the treasonous Whites from California.

    You’ll have to pledge to hand over some of the land and territory to the White Christian soldiers who won California, but that’s a small price to pay.

    William the Conqueror did a “Harrying of the North” to solve some problems in England, and a “Harrying of California” could be done to remove 25 million or so from California. I would put them in sub-Saharan Africa and I would not let them attempt to enter any other European Christian nation.

    If we raised the federal funds rate to 20 percent, like it was in 1981, that would immediately implode the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate. The moment to forcibly deport the foreigners and their spawn, and some of the treasonous Whites, is when the asset bubble implosion financially liquidates the rigged system.

    Debt repudiations and pro-White demographic rightsizing is on the way to the USA!

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Audacious Epigone
  68. Talha says:
    @Charles Pewitt

    You’ll have to pledge to hand over some of the land and territory to the White Christian soldiers who won California, but that’s a small price to pay.

    OK cool – but how many churches are on board for this new Crusade you are proposing – you know, to remove Christian Latinos (since these guys are the biggest target in the removal scheme) for instance based on racial distinction? Can you name one church or congregation that is even close to being on board with this platform? I mean, you are proposing a Daesh model – makes sense if expunging populations is your goal – but Daesh actually tried setting up a new caliphate in Syria/Iraq and they actually had territory, but they really only got about 50,000 fighters max.

    William the Conqueror

    Well yeah, he had a bunch of Norsemen backing him up Medieval-style. That’s like me saying; well Suleyman the Magnificent could do it, so why not us – why not now?

    If we raised the federal funds rate to 20 percent, like it was in 1981, that would immediately implode the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate.

    Got it – burn the house down first and then herd all the rats that come running out. Who is willing to hike the rate as you propose?

    I don’t know, bro. The more you outline it, the more unlikely it sounds. I mean, maybe you could do something like expel all foreign-born (or first-generation) Muslims – that actually makes sense and seems doable. There aren’t all that many of us honestly and you could probably run some false flag operations (or have FBI agent provocateurs coax a few idiot extremists) on like ten random churches on a single Sunday (think around holiday time); kill a bunch of old white grandmas and kids and blame it on us and you’d likely have the entire country on your side within a week. That’s just like 6 to 7 million people who are fairly easily recognizable by name and looks and dress and scattered so they can’t form a serious coordinated resistance. Then you can usurp our mosques and convert them into churches…and then close them down in a month due to lack of attendance.

    I’m just saying, you’re trying to go for the whole enchilada all at once. You gotta walk before you can run.

    Peace.

  69. LondonBob says:
    @SFG

    Search the archives here, seen the same results in a different poll to the one that was analysed here.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  70. @SFG

    “The real problem is they have way too much influence.”

    That is the Mount Rushmore of understatements.

  71. @Renoman

    When slinging an insult that includes the words ” stupid illiterate hoard” it helps to spell ‘horde’ correctly in order to avoid the appearance of stupid illiteracy.

    • LOL: iffen
  72. @Charles Pewitt

    The Fed doesn’t need to specific raise the funds rate to 20%, it just needs to let the rate float–and we can watch it skyrocket. I don’t think it would go quite that high, but I’d be surprised if it did NOT crack 10%, either.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
  73. @LondonBob

    No way. I saw a black republican once.

    • LOL: LondonBob
  74. The control that Israel, or more appropriately – the Zionists, has over the US social and economic structures is over 80% complete. The struggle is to maintain freedom of the internet, which remains beyond their full control. Most people have no idea that we are in a final battle.

  75. @Audacious Epigone

    I admittedly respect Israel.

    If Palestinians were Europeans and you held that opinion I’d spit on you through my monitor.

    Personally, even though I find Palestinians (like 99% of Arabs) distinctly unlikable, I can’t help sometimes feel sorry for them when I think just how completely the Jews screwed them over.

  76. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Roberto Masioni

    Still waiting for Conservatives to conserve something.

    They’ve conserved lots of things. Like corporate wealth. And the personal wealth of the very rich. And they’ve conserved the interests of the military-industrial complex. These are surely the only things worth conserving.

    • Replies: @iffen
  77. iffen says:
    @dfordoom

    These are surely the only things worth conserving.

    They have conserved their losing streak for several millennia.

  78. “Like corporate wealth.”

    You might want to take a look at ho the conservatives are. They are not likely to be corporate tycoons.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  79. @Audacious Epigone

    The Fed doesn’t need to specific raise the funds rate to 20%, it just needs to let the rate float–and we can watch it skyrocket. I don’t think it would go quite that high, but I’d be surprised if it did NOT crack 10%, either.

    The most important thing for regular people to understand is that the price of money — interest rates — is the price that sets all other prices. Even if I’m wrong in that, the topic is important to hash out.

    We don’t have a so-called “free market economy” when private employees of a private corporation called the Federal Reserve Bank set the price of money.

    We don’t have capitalism, we have central banker shysterism.

    Trumpy and Navarro — which would have been a good name for a cop show from the 1970s or 1980s — want to drop the federal funds rate to decrease the strength of the dollar in relation to other currencies to boost manufacturing and other businesses in the USA to make them more competitive globally.

    Trump is adding his natural desire as a FIRE guy — Finance, Insurance, Real Estate — for low interests rates to his trade strategy to boost the production and manufacturing of goods in the USA.

    The Germans have enjoyed using the weak euro as a currency for their export centered economy because if they used the strong deutschmark they would have trouble selling their goods because it would be prohibitively expensive for foreigners to pay in deutschmarks for German goods.

    1971 and 1981 should be just as important as 1965 for right wing patriots and populists. My idea is that the baby boomers were bought off with government debt and private debt created out of thin air by the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank. There is no way the baby boomers would have sat still and allowed the USA to be invaded by mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration if they weren’t bought off like common 10 dollar whores by the financialization shenanigans allowed by a debt-based fiat currency.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    , @Feryl
  80. “We don’t have a so-called “free market economy” when private employees of a private corporation called the Federal Reserve Bank set the price of money.”

    Hmmmm . . .

    the reason we have are serve is to avoid wild fluctuations with unpredictable consequences that fuels greater instability. I understand the argument, that the system will balance itself out naturally and we will have an actual economy or natural economy. But that won’t stop manipulations of the market by the wealthier / those with access.

    I think there are some valid concerns about the Fed however, the following is but one example of the US with a Central stabilizing entitiy.

    “Following the Bank’s disappearance, state banks, unhindered by either state regulations or the discipline imposed by the Bank of the U.S., greatly increased the number of bank notes in circulation. John K. Galbraith writes of the period, “State banks, relieved of the burden of forced redemption [imposed by the First Bank], were now chartered with abandon; every location large enough to have ‘a church, a tavern, or a blacksmith shop was deemed a suitable place for setting up a bank.’ These banks issued notes, and other, more surprising enterprises, imitating the banks, did likewise. ‘Even barbers and bartenders competed with banks in this respect’” (Galbraith, 58). Coupled with the disruptions associated with the war with England, this caused considerable inflation from 1812-1815. During that period, prices rose an average of 13.3 percent per year. An 1815 attempt to establish a new central bank failed, but by 1816 a consensus emerged for a return to central banking (Ibid, 13)”

    and after Pres. Jackson,

    https://www.let.rug.nl/usa/essays/general/a-brief-history-of-central-banking/money-and-the-constitution.php

    It runs like a system founded on the national confederacy . . . with each bank and seller determining the value of a currency which varied from state to state. Now granted in the age of technology standardizing a system that has been running for over a hundred years minus the fed seems a redundant question and of no risk or little, but the underlying issues remain. And what prevents any one state bank from engaging in transactions with foreign entities to improve their own leverage. Even with the Fed international monetary forces lean heavily against the system, in fact Pres Nixon’s choice o leave off the standard of gold was largely that our European partners had already done so. I lean heavily to a gold standard, but one cannot ignore the obvious issues.

    I am not confident a Congress would fare any better at managing the national financial system.

  81. ” Christian Latinos (since these guys are the biggest target in the removal scheme) for instance based on racial distinction . . .”

    I am not sure i but the suggestion about latinos and christianity. It is a very tough sell to say that one is a christian and then condones violating something as basic as another’s sovereignty and then proceed to defend that violation in the name of Jesus.

    And I think think taking a loot at it, the immgration christian gambit is just that a play using christianity as a ruse to violate the law. And this business of universal christianity to do the heavy lifting is unsupported by any passage of scripture I know.

    If one feels compelled to engage in charity, by all means take you goods, your medical care, and weapon and head south of the border and do God’s bidding as you see fit. But taking the bread out of the mouths of citizens to feed noncitizens — tsk, tsk and tsk.

    And the president needs to shut down that other avenue of access, recruiting stations in Mexico.

    • Replies: @Talha
  82. Talha says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Yeah but that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m not talking about illegals here. I’m talking about legal immigrants who are Latino Christians. It’s pretty clear from his words and his numbers he is talking about all non-white foreigners. He can of course clarify if I’m off the mark.

    So again, my question; which church or congregation is willing to sanction advocacy of stripping these people (Latino Christians – legal ones) of citizenship and forcibly transport them out. I’m even wondering if compensation is on the table? 🤔

    Peace.

  83. @Charles Pewitt

    Indeed, when the very center of the entire economic system is centrally planned in a way that intentionally ignores, distorts, and distances itself from price signals, there is no free market.

    • Agree: Talha
  84. Lot says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Former US citizen Rasmea Odeh, a Pali terrorist bomber, was “denaturalized” for lying on her application, and then deported.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2017/09/terrorist-rasmea-odeh-lies-one-last-time-as-she-is-deported/

    How many Somali naturalized US citizens had fully truthful applications? I’d guess less than half. The most famous naturalized Somali committed marriage fraud. Another big type is claiming to be the minor child or sibling of a citizen.

    It is a very expensive way to reduce our third world migrant headcount. But a few visible prosecutions are needed like Odeh’s to deter fraud. Odeh was caught when she bragged about her supermarket bombing in a documentary, showing she had no worry that her perjury on her citizenship application would ever be detected or prosecuted.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  85. Anonymous[177] • Disclaimer says:

    (EliteCommInc.)

    “So again, my question; which church or congregation is willing to sanction advocacy of stripping these people (Latino Christians – legal ones) of citizenship and forcibly transport them out. I’m even wondering if compensation is on the table?”

    I understand. Well, that all depends. Are they legal here as labor, visitors, etc. If they are citizens, I think your position is correct. There’s no mechanism short of treason (Man Without a Country:https://www.bartleby.com/310/6/1.html) to strip citizens of their citizenship. If they are not citizens, that’s another matter. And l’est anyone accuse me of callous intent, I would remind many that Mexico ended foreign property ownership some time back and left US citizens holding bag — highlighting the value of national sovereignty — it’s a good idea to take a cue from Mexico who lost the southwest as the direct result of failing to enforce their immigration standards —

    Though I am all for a kinder gentler repatriation of property than Mexico.

  86. @Lot

    Booting people for fraud makes sense. In another age, it’s something we would’ve proudly attributed to being “who we are”!

  87. Feryl says: • Website
    @Charles Pewitt

    Charles, the entire nature of Boomers signing a socio-political “truce” after Vietnam ended was based on making sure that the West would bestow financial largess on the sizable upper middle class of the Me Generation by rolling back anti-trust enforcement, cutting taxes on the rich, jettisoning secure and well paying manufacturing jobs, and importing legions of immigrants to swell property values, hurt unions, and drive down wages. So yeah, they were “bought off” with policy goals which intended to eventually make it easier for the middle and upper class of the Me Generation to own several more cars, own a cabin in the boondocks, make more large investments in the stock market. And these goals were being met by 1984. The New Deal era:1933-1966. The New Left era: 1967-1975. The initial push for Neo-liberalism: 1976-1983. Broad acceptance of neo-liberalism (by the increasingly powerful Boomer generation): 1984-2007. Push back against neo-liberalism: 2008-present.

    The then-young UMC of the Boomers never really gave any thought to economic issues in the 60’s and early 70’s (since we were a middle class paradise), but rather, was focused on upending the “square” (and stable) cultural order that the leaders of the Lost, GI, and Silent generation gave us in the mid-20th century. First the Boomers destroyed socio-cultural stability after about 1966 (when murders of police went way up), then they asked for the destruction of the working class beginning in the late 70’s. Once the Boomers made up a substantial chunk of leaders and shareholders in the 1990’s, they completely dismantled what was left of the New Deal’s basic economic infrastructure.

    Nowadays, today’s under 40 generations are in the opposite camp that the youth of the 60’s and 70’s were in. Today’s younger generations want neo-liberalism to be fundamentally over-hauled so as to stop being a vehicle for narcissistic greedy assholes, most of whom are now quite old. Whereas the youth of the 60’s and 70’s came to despise any sort of regulation on profiteering (as an extension of their impulse to celebrate individual hedonism). They chose chaos, we should choose stability when (and if) we get the opportunity to do so. However, decades of mismanagement may make it very difficult to extricate ourselves from the hole that’s been dug.

  88. Feryl says: • Website
    @EliteCommInc.

    Since the late 70’s, the UMC (and those who aspire to be in it) have often explicitly identified themselves as fiscal conservatives (e.g. against labor unions, against low immigration levels, against market regulation, and against Progressive taxes). Extensive economic protections for working class and poor individuals have been under attack for over 40 years. Boutique Left-wing cultural causes are espoused by many affluent individuals, but this has nothing to do with wanting to restore New Deal style protections for the economically vulnerable.

    So yes, most economic elites are indeed “conservative”, in the sense of ferocious hostility toward the New Deal’s program of broadly shared prosperity and tight regulations on excessive greed. These corrupt assholes will go to their grave believing that they “worked hard” and don’t owe their fellow man anything.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  89. Wally says: • Website
    @alexander

    All enabled by the utterly ridiculous “holocau$t” propaganda.

    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    – Gerard Menuhin / righteous Revisionist Jew, son of famous violinist

    recommended:

    Media bias, control, & censorship / quotes of note
    https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=605

  90. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Feryl

    First the Boomers destroyed socio-cultural stability after about 1966 (when murders of police went way up), then they asked for the destruction of the working class beginning in the late 70’s.

    Rubbish. The ruling elites and the upper middle classes asked for the destruction of the working class. The petite bourgeoisie and a lot of lower middle-class people were also quite happy to see the working class destroyed.

    You need to drop this silly generational obsession. In the real world it’s all about class. Always has been, always will be.

    What we saw, starting in the late 60s, was the beginning of a ruthless class war.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  91. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Feryl

    Since the late 70’s, the UMC (and those who aspire to be in it) have often explicitly identified themselves as fiscal conservatives (e.g. against labor unions, against low immigration levels, against market regulation, and against Progressive taxes). Extensive economic protections for working class and poor individuals have been under attack for over 40 years. Boutique Left-wing cultural causes are espoused by many affluent individuals, but this has nothing to do with wanting to restore New Deal style protections for the economically vulnerable.

    Absolutely correct. The boutique left-wing cultural causes (I like that term by the way) are in fact espoused specifically for the purpose of distracting attention away from the fact that the rich are in every meaningful sense right-wing.

    So yes, most economic elites are indeed “conservative”, in the sense of ferocious hostility toward the New Deal’s program of broadly shared prosperity and tight regulations on excessive greed. These corrupt assholes will go to their grave believing that they “worked hard” and don’t owe their fellow man anything.

    I’m not sure that the rich really believe that they “worked hard” although they pretend to believe that. I suspect that they actually believe that working hard is for suckers and for the working class. They know that you get rich by being ruthless and corrupt and getting the rules changed to favour your own interests.

  92. @Feryl

    then they asked for the destruction of the working class beginning in the late 70’s.

    The “working class” (speaking of UAW here) was as well or better-compensated than the much brighter and educated engineers who figured out what those oafs would assemble and how they would do it.  They did not want destruction, they wanted compensation by merit.  Extortion is not merit, and that’s what strike without replacement labor is.

    Today’s younger generations want neo-liberalism to be fundamentally over-hauled so as to stop being a vehicle for narcissistic greedy assholes

    If you did not live through the 60’s and 70’s union actions, you have no idea what narcissistic greedy assholes are.  Today’s public employee unions are but a shadow of what those power-mad scum were, but if you pay close attention to e.g. the Chicago teachers maybe you can get an idea.  Multiply by ten and maybe you’ll be close.

  93. @Feryl

    Charles, the entire nature of Boomers signing a socio-political “truce” after Vietnam ended was based on making sure that the West would bestow financial largess on the sizable upper middle class of the Me Generation by rolling back anti-trust enforcement, cutting taxes on the rich, jettisoning secure and well paying manufacturing jobs, and importing legions of immigrants to swell property values, hurt unions, and drive down wages.

    So yeah, they were “bought off” with policy goals which intended to eventually make it easier for the middle and upper class of the Me Generation to own several more cars, own a cabin in the boondocks, make more large investments in the stock market. And these goals were being met by 1984. The New Deal era:1933-1966. The New Left era: 1967-1975. The initial push for Neo-liberalism: 1976-1983. Broad acceptance of neo-liberalism (by the increasingly powerful Boomer generation): 1984-2007. Push back against neo-liberalism: 2008-present.

    Thank you for writing that and the other two excellent paragraphs from your comment.

    Politics is all about the central banker shysters and mass immigration now. The globalizer plutocrats will gladly use monetary extremism — negative interest rates, zero interest rates, asset purchases(quantitative easing), dollar swaps, directly buying corporate bonds and stocks…etc. — to keep this rotten rancid globalization fraud going on in their favor.

    Debt repudiations and mass deportations will have to be used as counter-measures to the plutocrat globalizer schemes to concentrate wealth and power by destroying nation state sovereignty and controlling the propaganda.

  94. Dr. Doom says:

    Babylon the Great will fall. High and Mighty lose it all.

    Small Palestine is the final place. Armageddon is where it takes place.

    Its all in The Book. We go BY THE BOOK.

  95. Feryl says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    You need to drop this silly generational obsession. In the real world it’s all about class. Always has been, always will be.

    It’s not silly, because what we bought into when we were 10-18 years old will affect us our whole lives. For better or for worse. For example, heavy drinking, smoking, and drug use all got progressively higher from the start of the 60’s to the end of the 70’s. Therefore, one would expect people born in the 1940’s-1960’s to have greatest problems with substance abuse. And that’s exactly what the stats show; Boomers remain the heaviest drinkers. Neil Howe says that “Awakening” periods throughout Western history are all marked by surges in drinking and drug use; as soon as we leave these eras substance use becomes much less socially acceptable (for example, in the 1980’s smoking began to be outlawed from many different environments, the FedGov threatened to withhold funding from states that didn’t do more to crack down on drunk driving, and MTV banned any music videos that explicitly referenced drug and alcohol use).

    Many Gen X-ers and 99% of Millennials came of age rejecting the excesses of the Boomer socio-cultural “Awakening”, being that this period glorified destructive behavior and New Age bullshit. The peak in high school senior marijuana use was in 1979 (so much for the wonders of mostly white demographics), the peak in binge drinking was in 1979 also. Speed was in 1982, and cocaine was in 1985. Use of all these drugs has declined dramatically since the late 80’s. You can still find degenerates in every generation who embraced drug and party culture, however, the fact remains that later generations on average are less degenerate than the people who were in high school in the 1960’s-early 80’s.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  96. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Feryl

    It’s not silly, because what we bought into when we were 10-18 years old will affect us our whole lives.

    But what we bought into when we were 10-18 years old has a great deal to do with social class. And with whether we grew up in a rural or an urban area. Or the suburbs.

    And social class determines the kinds of schools we attend. And the kinds of books and TV shows we get exposed to. And how much TV we get exposed to. Social class also determines our likelihood of going to college, and the type of college we’re likely to go to. These things determine the sort of stuff we buy into.

    In my experience of life class seems to be much more significant than generation.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  97. Feryl says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    To-may-do to-mah-to.

    Everything you could bring up about variation within and between races, nationalities, social classes, etc. would all be true. Yet it doesn’t change the fact that in all human societies bar the most primitive jungle savages (e.g., Andaman Islanders, or Australian aborigines), there clearly is a core personality and outlook among each generation that distinguishes it from the ones that have come before. Strauss and Howe cited numerous historians, philosophers, priests, military commanders, etc. who all expressed awareness of how different generations affected various social and political trends. Generational factors also explain how societies can shift so swiftly; given our long existence on Earth, we would expect each “tribe” to essentially preside over a similar society for many years without much change. But that doesn’t happen at all; in fact, Strauss and Howe note that historically it’s been recognized that a particular cultural epoch (particularly in advanced societies) lasts about the length of long lived human life or a bit longer. 70-100 years, in other words.

    Strauss and Howe postulate that in Anglo society it appears that a massive crisis event (or events) causes an over-haul of social priorities, which strongly imprints on the youngest generations. E.g., the Depression and WW2 had a strong impact on those born from about 1900-1940. These generations offer ample support to elders trying to guide society through the crisis, and subsequently feel elated and are grateful for the peace and stability that follow the crisis. But then a generation too young to remember the crisis is born, and as they reach adulthood they challenge and threaten the post-crisis order. This is exactly what the Boomers did after 1967, being that they had no appreciation for the sacrifices of the older generations. This challenge creates an “awakening” period in which often reckless experimentation is frequent and authority is hated. During this awakening period, a new generation is born, one that is alienated and detached from the overall culture which no longer seems to look out for it’s youngest. During the Boomer awakening, the Gen X-ers were born.

    Eventually the awakening exhausts itself (see: the abject hedonism of the Carter and early Reagan era), and once the generation born in the awakening reaches adulthood an “unraveling” occurs; now everyone seems to be isolated, skeptical, and cynical. There is no longer any sort of “consciousness raising” as such Boomer type indulgences have been discredited and are viciously hated by Gen X type generations. During the unraveling a new type of generation is born, one that is taught to have a sense of honor and duty by narcissistic middle aged people (Boomers) and aloof young adults (X-ers) who want to see a new generation that has different (and….Better?) values. This a stark contrast from young Boomers and X-ers being largely allowed to decide their own way during the awakening and unraveling. As this new generation reaches adulthood, another crisis looms and eventually arrives. And thus the cycle repeats.

    In summary:

    Crisis: 1929-1945 (Great Depression/WW2)
    Silent Gen born from about 1925-1939

    Post-Crisis high point of stability and camaraderie: 1946-1966 (The interstate high way system is built, crime is low, leadership is trusted, the GI Bill and the suburbs are built out, Civil Rights began)
    Boomers born from about 1940-1960

    Awakening: 1967-1983 (numerous assassinations or attempts at such, racial unrest, peak in drinking and drug use, record high murder rates, serial killers become household names, teenagers began cutting classes, hitch-hiking, and running away from home).
    X-ers born from about 1961-1980

    Unraveling: 1984-2000 (neo-liberalism, “family values”, media sensationalism about “hot-button” moral issues, panic over crime, violence, and drug use as society no longer excuses Gen X wildness like it did with awakening era Boomer youth, US presidents resume having full 2nd terms suddenly and almost inexplicably, in light of how awakening era presidents were all treated with hostility and bounced out before a full 8 year long White House stay could be completed; LBJ did not run for re-election, Nixon was done in by Watergate, and Carter was widely ridiculed by the time he ran for re-election and inevitably lost to Reagan).
    Millennials born from 1981-1995

    Crisis: 2001-present (9/11, MEastern wars, rise of Eastern powers, mass shootings, the 2008 market meltdown, growing tribalism, the attack on free speech from many elite institutions)
    Gen Z born from 1996-?

    As you can tell, a generation is influenced by being born too late to remember something, or by being born too early to really grasp later events. So Millennials have no influence from the Awakening because they began to be born just as the Awakening was fading away. Yet Millennials are influenced by the unraveling in a way that Gen Z or the Silents can’t relate to.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  98. Feryl says: • Website
    @Feryl

    Addendum: each cultural epoch lasts for 70-100 years, and within that epoch there are 4 distinct phases that occur. It begins with a crisis, which when resolved creates a post-crisis “high point”. This high point is challenged by the newest generation of young adults during an awakening, who were born too late to remember the crisis. This sentiment eventually subsides which leads to an unraveling. Once the unraveling gives way to another crisis, a new epoch is upon us.

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