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That the sentiments of Jewish Republicans towards contemporary migration into the US is about the same as that of gentile white Democrats would seem to explain a lot about why conservative outlets like The Daily Wire, National Review, and Prager University are consistently at odds with their putative readership over issues surrounding immigration:

GSS variables used: LETIN1A(1-2)(3)(4-5), PARTYID(0-1)(2-4,7)(5-6), RELIG(1-2,4-13)(3), RACECEN1(1), HISPANIC(1)

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Ideology 
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  1. These must be the based right-wing Jews Cofnas was telling me about

    • Replies: @SFG
    Technically, they did turn against immigration, just not as much as the rest of the right.

    You see guys like Frum and Hazony starting to come around. I suspect as this becomes a major issue (left-right used to be all about tax rates) the Max Boot and Jennifer Rubin types will just identify as 'left' and the gap will narrow.
    , @Marcus
    Some of his critique is valid, but Cofnas ignores things like AmRen obviously trying to include as many Jews as possible to deter anti-semitism charges (in vain).
  2. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/13/four-in-five-democrats-want-easier-migration-and-asylum-rules/

    The nationalist right has dropped the ball on the issues of “sanitary conditions” and “assistance to Central America”.

    While we may not really care about these specific subsets, moderates do.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    “Moderates” are pathetic excuses for human beings.
    , @Toronto Russian

    The nationalist right has dropped the ball on the issues of “sanitary conditions” and “assistance to Central America”.

    While we may not really care about these specific subsets, moderates do.
     
    This is important even though Trump supporters emotionally dismiss it. These countries had just normal agrarian poverty in the early 1900s, and were described in popular literature as relaxed idylls (O. Henry's Cabbages and Kings; it's about a fictional country, but he really lived in Honduras). They could have industrialised, improved education and reduced poverty at a normal pace (perhaps behind Southern Europe, but ahead of Southeast Asia), given some time of stability and good governance.

    The American elite is responsible for making them into living hell by, first, using them as a power play polygon against the USSR, and second, creating the prestige drug market. The father of modern drug culture was Alfred Matthew Hubbard, an American and Canadian secret service agent (officially a simple Kentucky boy who got his ideas from angels, lol).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Matthew_Hubbard

    If not for him and his friends, cocaine would be used by dentists and weirdos like Sherlock Holmes, not by about everyone who's rich and fashionable. Emergence of brutal Latin American drug lords would be impossible, and people wouldn't be randomly shot or blown up in the streets (which tends to make them want to emigrate).

    So I think it would be ethical and sensible of the US to clean up its mess there. Of course mindlessly giving "aid" money to local elites is counterproductive. Put someone smart like these Colombian guys (white descendants of conquistadors, judging by their photos) in charge. Colombia used to have the world's highest emigration rate, but now its net migration is slightly positive - partly as a result of the Venezuelan disaster, but partly because the country itself has improved and people don't want to leave as much.

    Medellin's urban development began with the management of mayors Luis Perez (2000 and 2003), Sergio Fajardo (2003-2007) and Alonso Salazar (2007-2011). And it is designed as a comprehensive strategy that seeks solutions to mobility, governance and education together with the recovery of public space and green areas. The aim of this strategy is to recover the poorest sectors of the city that until recently, were dominated by communist groups, paramilitaries or drug smugglers... 
    https://architectureindevelopment.org/news.php?id=49
     
  3. @216
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/13/four-in-five-democrats-want-easier-migration-and-asylum-rules/

    The nationalist right has dropped the ball on the issues of "sanitary conditions" and "assistance to Central America".

    While we may not really care about these specific subsets, moderates do.

    “Moderates” are pathetic excuses for human beings.

  4. Yeah, but there’s still a – 15% there, A.E. Shouldn’t that mean NR and such would get it, or is it that their editors are not a part of bringing that red bar down?

    The problem is that Republicans are not a big percentage of Jews to begin with.

    • Agree: Rosie
    • Replies: @SFG
    I've been reading those guys (NR, daily wire) for a while. They're starting to turn against immigration, even as they claim they're not white supremacists (and TBH people sending Shapiro memes of his family photoshopped into ovens is not going to win him over). VDH is a huge Israel partisan but also restrictionist. I suspect the whole 'national conservatism' thing is at least in part an attempt by right-wing Jews to avoid getting thrown over the side by embracing some restriction.

    Breitbart was always anti-immigration.

    As you say, there just aren't that many right-wing Jews. They're only important because of money and verbal IQ.

  5. Strangely, public perception of immigration has tilted even more towards a favorable view :

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    How is that strange that the growing lack of enthusiam among whites for immigration is not reflected by an increasingly non-white public?
    , @Feryl
    Mass shootings, and rampant talk of an incipient Neo-Nazi take-over, are both proof that a major wave of mental illness and mass hysteria are upon us. No surprise that many people are now convinced that more immigration is a good thing, even as it fuels the frustration of prole whites and red staters who can understand the Texas Wal-Mart shooter for martyring himself on behalf of restrictionists.
  6. I am unsure of how to read this difference. Since their emancipation, many Jews have been at the forefront of the movements and ideas that have driven wokeness to this extreme point. At the same time, the denial of and attempted negation of otherness by the woke (except as applied to the hated deplorables) would not compare because Gentiles and Jews have a different understanding of and reaction to otherness.

  7. Simple explanation: it is all about Israel. The Republican party is slavishly supportive of the state of Israel. The typical Jewish Republican is liberal on domestic issues and facsist with respect to the Middle East.

  8. @Thomm
    Strangely, public perception of immigration has tilted even more towards a favorable view :

    https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/qb3vc6ciuegomt8gixe4lq.png

    How is that strange that the growing lack of enthusiam among whites for immigration is not reflected by an increasingly non-white public?

    • Replies: @Thomm
    The mix didn't change THAT fast, just from 2010 to 2019, that it could go from 57% to 76% immigration tilt.
  9. A great example of why the political party known as Republican is obsolete, and has been for some time.

    A wall street hedge fund guy and a guy who owns a small motor repair shop in Nebraska might both register as Republican, but it’s very likely that these two individuals might not agree on a single point of policy concerning immigration, taxation, regulation, defense spending, healthcare entitlements, gun control, and so on. At least the Democrats have one thing that unites them: hating whitey.

    I don’t care if Max Boot or Podhoretz or Kristol or Goldberg register as Republicans, or that Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Grassley, etc. were elected as such. We do not share the same interests.

    • Replies: @SFG
    That's true, but remember that any country (especially one this big) is going to have a wide variety of supporters forming a coalition in its parties.

    Middle America, Big Business, and neocons used to have common interests in stopping communism and hippies. Not so much anymore, so the neocons are decamping for the left. No great loss.
    , @Jimi
    If you're a Wall St guy under the age 40 you're more likely to be a Democrat than a Republican.

    Not all "business" is the same. Tim Cooke and a "man with white van" belong in 2 different categories.
  10. @216
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/13/four-in-five-democrats-want-easier-migration-and-asylum-rules/

    The nationalist right has dropped the ball on the issues of "sanitary conditions" and "assistance to Central America".

    While we may not really care about these specific subsets, moderates do.

    The nationalist right has dropped the ball on the issues of “sanitary conditions” and “assistance to Central America”.

    While we may not really care about these specific subsets, moderates do.

    This is important even though Trump supporters emotionally dismiss it. These countries had just normal agrarian poverty in the early 1900s, and were described in popular literature as relaxed idylls (O. Henry’s Cabbages and Kings; it’s about a fictional country, but he really lived in Honduras). They could have industrialised, improved education and reduced poverty at a normal pace (perhaps behind Southern Europe, but ahead of Southeast Asia), given some time of stability and good governance.

    The American elite is responsible for making them into living hell by, first, using them as a power play polygon against the USSR, and second, creating the prestige drug market. The father of modern drug culture was Alfred Matthew Hubbard, an American and Canadian secret service agent (officially a simple Kentucky boy who got his ideas from angels, lol).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Matthew_Hubbard

    If not for him and his friends, cocaine would be used by dentists and weirdos like Sherlock Holmes, not by about everyone who’s rich and fashionable. Emergence of brutal Latin American drug lords would be impossible, and people wouldn’t be randomly shot or blown up in the streets (which tends to make them want to emigrate).

    So I think it would be ethical and sensible of the US to clean up its mess there. Of course mindlessly giving “aid” money to local elites is counterproductive. Put someone smart like these Colombian guys (white descendants of conquistadors, judging by their photos) in charge. Colombia used to have the world’s highest emigration rate, but now its net migration is slightly positive – partly as a result of the Venezuelan disaster, but partly because the country itself has improved and people don’t want to leave as much.

    Medellin’s urban development began with the management of mayors Luis Perez (2000 and 2003), Sergio Fajardo (2003-2007) and Alonso Salazar (2007-2011). And it is designed as a comprehensive strategy that seeks solutions to mobility, governance and education together with the recovery of public space and green areas. The aim of this strategy is to recover the poorest sectors of the city that until recently, were dominated by communist groups, paramilitaries or drug smugglers… 
    https://architectureindevelopment.org/news.php?id=49

    • Replies: @neutral
    I think its much simpler than that. Almost everyone has access to global communications, what these people are being shown on their smartphones is that they can enter white (previously white) lands with ease and that life is better there.
    , @216

    This is important even though Trump supporters emotionally dismiss it.
     
    Most conservatives are intentionally deficient in their awareness of how little moral authority they have, not only in so-called "polite society" but among almost all liberals and moderates.

    David Cameron had this idea in 2010 about the "Big Society" where the magic hand of the state was supposed to rebuild a high trust civil society based in volunteerism. It disappeared after the election, but I think the foundation was sound. The MAGApedes that did the Baltimore trash cleanup should be emulated, this kind of activism is unobjectionable and might help restore the moral authority of the Right.

    So I think it would be ethical and sensible of the US to clean up its mess there. Of course mindlessly giving “aid” money to local elites is counterproductive.
     
    A better idea is to subsidize the building of infrastructure, the construction jobs would soak up many of the younger men most likely to emigrate. The Chinese are spot on with "Belt and Road", and the US should have joined their project.
  11. @Mitleser
    How is that strange that the growing lack of enthusiam among whites for immigration is not reflected by an increasingly non-white public?

    The mix didn’t change THAT fast, just from 2010 to 2019, that it could go from 57% to 76% immigration tilt.

  12. @Toronto Russian

    The nationalist right has dropped the ball on the issues of “sanitary conditions” and “assistance to Central America”.

    While we may not really care about these specific subsets, moderates do.
     
    This is important even though Trump supporters emotionally dismiss it. These countries had just normal agrarian poverty in the early 1900s, and were described in popular literature as relaxed idylls (O. Henry's Cabbages and Kings; it's about a fictional country, but he really lived in Honduras). They could have industrialised, improved education and reduced poverty at a normal pace (perhaps behind Southern Europe, but ahead of Southeast Asia), given some time of stability and good governance.

    The American elite is responsible for making them into living hell by, first, using them as a power play polygon against the USSR, and second, creating the prestige drug market. The father of modern drug culture was Alfred Matthew Hubbard, an American and Canadian secret service agent (officially a simple Kentucky boy who got his ideas from angels, lol).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Matthew_Hubbard

    If not for him and his friends, cocaine would be used by dentists and weirdos like Sherlock Holmes, not by about everyone who's rich and fashionable. Emergence of brutal Latin American drug lords would be impossible, and people wouldn't be randomly shot or blown up in the streets (which tends to make them want to emigrate).

    So I think it would be ethical and sensible of the US to clean up its mess there. Of course mindlessly giving "aid" money to local elites is counterproductive. Put someone smart like these Colombian guys (white descendants of conquistadors, judging by their photos) in charge. Colombia used to have the world's highest emigration rate, but now its net migration is slightly positive - partly as a result of the Venezuelan disaster, but partly because the country itself has improved and people don't want to leave as much.

    Medellin's urban development began with the management of mayors Luis Perez (2000 and 2003), Sergio Fajardo (2003-2007) and Alonso Salazar (2007-2011). And it is designed as a comprehensive strategy that seeks solutions to mobility, governance and education together with the recovery of public space and green areas. The aim of this strategy is to recover the poorest sectors of the city that until recently, were dominated by communist groups, paramilitaries or drug smugglers... 
    https://architectureindevelopment.org/news.php?id=49
     

    I think its much simpler than that. Almost everyone has access to global communications, what these people are being shown on their smartphones is that they can enter white (previously white) lands with ease and that life is better there.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Yeah 3rd worlders are mindless followers.

    They see that its "in" for them to move to whitopia so that's where they go.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    That goes some way in explaining why early in Trump's term apprehensions of illegal aliens at the border dropped significantly--Latin America was following the US election, and all the hysterical media coverage surrounding it, and many would-be migrants legitimately thought they'd be deported (or worse) if they made the trip.
    , @Feryl
    Back in the Ellis Island days*, lots of immigrants were brought here to work as cheap labor. That is still the case these days. Publicly, leadership claims that immigrants are culturally enriching. Privately, big business hands these leaders big wads of cash while also warning that restricted immigration would shrink the economy hopelessly.

    Technology changes don't really account for how corrupt our elite happens to be in some eras. We could easily keep out, kick out, or even violently attack, low-grade third worlders if our leaders were serious about protecting the future prospects of the West.

    *We got better quality immigrants back then, since America's empire wasn't collapsing at the time.
  13. @neutral
    I think its much simpler than that. Almost everyone has access to global communications, what these people are being shown on their smartphones is that they can enter white (previously white) lands with ease and that life is better there.

    Yeah 3rd worlders are mindless followers.

    They see that its “in” for them to move to whitopia so that’s where they go.

  14. @Toronto Russian

    The nationalist right has dropped the ball on the issues of “sanitary conditions” and “assistance to Central America”.

    While we may not really care about these specific subsets, moderates do.
     
    This is important even though Trump supporters emotionally dismiss it. These countries had just normal agrarian poverty in the early 1900s, and were described in popular literature as relaxed idylls (O. Henry's Cabbages and Kings; it's about a fictional country, but he really lived in Honduras). They could have industrialised, improved education and reduced poverty at a normal pace (perhaps behind Southern Europe, but ahead of Southeast Asia), given some time of stability and good governance.

    The American elite is responsible for making them into living hell by, first, using them as a power play polygon against the USSR, and second, creating the prestige drug market. The father of modern drug culture was Alfred Matthew Hubbard, an American and Canadian secret service agent (officially a simple Kentucky boy who got his ideas from angels, lol).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Matthew_Hubbard

    If not for him and his friends, cocaine would be used by dentists and weirdos like Sherlock Holmes, not by about everyone who's rich and fashionable. Emergence of brutal Latin American drug lords would be impossible, and people wouldn't be randomly shot or blown up in the streets (which tends to make them want to emigrate).

    So I think it would be ethical and sensible of the US to clean up its mess there. Of course mindlessly giving "aid" money to local elites is counterproductive. Put someone smart like these Colombian guys (white descendants of conquistadors, judging by their photos) in charge. Colombia used to have the world's highest emigration rate, but now its net migration is slightly positive - partly as a result of the Venezuelan disaster, but partly because the country itself has improved and people don't want to leave as much.

    Medellin's urban development began with the management of mayors Luis Perez (2000 and 2003), Sergio Fajardo (2003-2007) and Alonso Salazar (2007-2011). And it is designed as a comprehensive strategy that seeks solutions to mobility, governance and education together with the recovery of public space and green areas. The aim of this strategy is to recover the poorest sectors of the city that until recently, were dominated by communist groups, paramilitaries or drug smugglers... 
    https://architectureindevelopment.org/news.php?id=49
     

    This is important even though Trump supporters emotionally dismiss it.

    Most conservatives are intentionally deficient in their awareness of how little moral authority they have, not only in so-called “polite society” but among almost all liberals and moderates.

    David Cameron had this idea in 2010 about the “Big Society” where the magic hand of the state was supposed to rebuild a high trust civil society based in volunteerism. It disappeared after the election, but I think the foundation was sound. The MAGApedes that did the Baltimore trash cleanup should be emulated, this kind of activism is unobjectionable and might help restore the moral authority of the Right.

    So I think it would be ethical and sensible of the US to clean up its mess there. Of course mindlessly giving “aid” money to local elites is counterproductive.

    A better idea is to subsidize the building of infrastructure, the construction jobs would soak up many of the younger men most likely to emigrate. The Chinese are spot on with “Belt and Road”, and the US should have joined their project.

    • Replies: @L Woods
    Oh boy. The right is never, ever in a million years going to reclaim “moral authority” when they allow “morality” to be defined by the left. That really should be obvious.
    , @Charles Pewitt

    David Cameron had this idea in 2010 about the “Big Society” where the magic hand of the state was supposed to rebuild a high trust civil society based in volunteerism. It disappeared after the election, but I think the foundation was sound. The MAGApedes that did the Baltimore trash cleanup should be emulated, this kind of activism is unobjectionable and might help restore the moral authority of the Right.

     

    Holy smokes!

    David Cameron's little rich boy routine where he warbled on about hugging hoodie types was a frigging fraud from the get-go, and people actually give that Dishface Dave Cameron credit for that marketing crap?

    Rich boy hypocrite Dave Cameron told ordinary English people to "hug a hoodie" in response to rising crime in England when that disgusting little plutocrat plop Dishface Dave Cameron lives in rural splendor far, far away from the menacing criminal thugs in their hoodies.

    WOW!

    The White Core American Patriots have the moral high ground as it stands now, and it will control the commanding heights of the mass propaganda apparatus when they destroy the Republican Party globalizers and take control of the mass media in the USA.

    The United States is a European Christian nation and the mass media is controlled by sinister creatures who are not European Christians.

    Cheers!

    I'm proud to have some English blood and I'm proud that the English took the opportunity provided by the political bungling of Dishface Dave Cameron and voted to leave that prison house of nations called the European Union.

    Moral Authority! What a joke!

    How much longer will The Redstone Mob(Viacom/CBS) and The Roberts Gang(Comcast/NBC) and the Sulzberger Gang(NY Times) and the rest of the nation wreckers have all that "moral authority" that comes with controlling all that mass media propaganda?
  15. @Kent Nationalist
    These must be the based right-wing Jews Cofnas was telling me about

    Technically, they did turn against immigration, just not as much as the rest of the right.

    You see guys like Frum and Hazony starting to come around. I suspect as this becomes a major issue (left-right used to be all about tax rates) the Max Boot and Jennifer Rubin types will just identify as ‘left’ and the gap will narrow.

  16. @Achmed E. Newman
    Yeah, but there's still a - 15% there, A.E. Shouldn't that mean NR and such would get it, or is it that their editors are not a part of bringing that red bar down?

    The problem is that Republicans are not a big percentage of Jews to begin with.

    I’ve been reading those guys (NR, daily wire) for a while. They’re starting to turn against immigration, even as they claim they’re not white supremacists (and TBH people sending Shapiro memes of his family photoshopped into ovens is not going to win him over). VDH is a huge Israel partisan but also restrictionist. I suspect the whole ‘national conservatism’ thing is at least in part an attempt by right-wing Jews to avoid getting thrown over the side by embracing some restriction.

    Breitbart was always anti-immigration.

    As you say, there just aren’t that many right-wing Jews. They’re only important because of money and verbal IQ.

  17. @MikeatMikedotMike
    A great example of why the political party known as Republican is obsolete, and has been for some time.

    A wall street hedge fund guy and a guy who owns a small motor repair shop in Nebraska might both register as Republican, but it's very likely that these two individuals might not agree on a single point of policy concerning immigration, taxation, regulation, defense spending, healthcare entitlements, gun control, and so on. At least the Democrats have one thing that unites them: hating whitey.

    I don't care if Max Boot or Podhoretz or Kristol or Goldberg register as Republicans, or that Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Grassley, etc. were elected as such. We do not share the same interests.

    That’s true, but remember that any country (especially one this big) is going to have a wide variety of supporters forming a coalition in its parties.

    Middle America, Big Business, and neocons used to have common interests in stopping communism and hippies. Not so much anymore, so the neocons are decamping for the left. No great loss.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    "That’s true, but remember that any country (especially one this big) is going to have a wide variety of supporters forming a coalition in its parties."

    I don't necessarily agree. The UK currently has 9 parties with a seat in the House of Commons and 4 parties with a seat in Parliament. We should have more parties with a narrower vision reflective of its constituency or ideally, one "party" with a singular vision for the continued success of the nation. But considering the same small group of people pretty much lobby and control both major parties in the US (making election outcomes largely inconsequential to their interests) it's no surprise smaller parties find it impossible to gain any meaningful support. The term uniparty is somewhat valid, but the US continues to be fractured by different groups who vote identity over policy. That's a another big reason why the R/D model is obsolete.
  18. @216

    This is important even though Trump supporters emotionally dismiss it.
     
    Most conservatives are intentionally deficient in their awareness of how little moral authority they have, not only in so-called "polite society" but among almost all liberals and moderates.

    David Cameron had this idea in 2010 about the "Big Society" where the magic hand of the state was supposed to rebuild a high trust civil society based in volunteerism. It disappeared after the election, but I think the foundation was sound. The MAGApedes that did the Baltimore trash cleanup should be emulated, this kind of activism is unobjectionable and might help restore the moral authority of the Right.

    So I think it would be ethical and sensible of the US to clean up its mess there. Of course mindlessly giving “aid” money to local elites is counterproductive.
     
    A better idea is to subsidize the building of infrastructure, the construction jobs would soak up many of the younger men most likely to emigrate. The Chinese are spot on with "Belt and Road", and the US should have joined their project.

    Oh boy. The right is never, ever in a million years going to reclaim “moral authority” when they allow “morality” to be defined by the left. That really should be obvious.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @216
    It's called the "long march through the institutions" for a reason.

    The first step in the Moldbug path is "become worthy", the second is "build institutions", the third is "attain power".

    Last time I checked, the worthy aren't funded by selling snake oil and e-girls to working class beta males.
  19. @MikeatMikedotMike
    A great example of why the political party known as Republican is obsolete, and has been for some time.

    A wall street hedge fund guy and a guy who owns a small motor repair shop in Nebraska might both register as Republican, but it's very likely that these two individuals might not agree on a single point of policy concerning immigration, taxation, regulation, defense spending, healthcare entitlements, gun control, and so on. At least the Democrats have one thing that unites them: hating whitey.

    I don't care if Max Boot or Podhoretz or Kristol or Goldberg register as Republicans, or that Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Grassley, etc. were elected as such. We do not share the same interests.

    If you’re a Wall St guy under the age 40 you’re more likely to be a Democrat than a Republican.

    Not all “business” is the same. Tim Cooke and a “man with white van” belong in 2 different categories.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    It's better to focus on the point I was making, rather than nitpick the example used to make it.
  20. @SFG
    That's true, but remember that any country (especially one this big) is going to have a wide variety of supporters forming a coalition in its parties.

    Middle America, Big Business, and neocons used to have common interests in stopping communism and hippies. Not so much anymore, so the neocons are decamping for the left. No great loss.

    “That’s true, but remember that any country (especially one this big) is going to have a wide variety of supporters forming a coalition in its parties.”

    I don’t necessarily agree. The UK currently has 9 parties with a seat in the House of Commons and 4 parties with a seat in Parliament. We should have more parties with a narrower vision reflective of its constituency or ideally, one “party” with a singular vision for the continued success of the nation. But considering the same small group of people pretty much lobby and control both major parties in the US (making election outcomes largely inconsequential to their interests) it’s no surprise smaller parties find it impossible to gain any meaningful support. The term uniparty is somewhat valid, but the US continues to be fractured by different groups who vote identity over policy. That’s a another big reason why the R/D model is obsolete.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Good point, and I should rephrase that. Given our first-past-the-post system, a duopoly is probably inevitable. As such, given the size and variety of the country, any of the two parties is going to be a big coalition.
  21. @Jimi
    If you're a Wall St guy under the age 40 you're more likely to be a Democrat than a Republican.

    Not all "business" is the same. Tim Cooke and a "man with white van" belong in 2 different categories.

    It’s better to focus on the point I was making, rather than nitpick the example used to make it.

  22. @MikeatMikedotMike
    "That’s true, but remember that any country (especially one this big) is going to have a wide variety of supporters forming a coalition in its parties."

    I don't necessarily agree. The UK currently has 9 parties with a seat in the House of Commons and 4 parties with a seat in Parliament. We should have more parties with a narrower vision reflective of its constituency or ideally, one "party" with a singular vision for the continued success of the nation. But considering the same small group of people pretty much lobby and control both major parties in the US (making election outcomes largely inconsequential to their interests) it's no surprise smaller parties find it impossible to gain any meaningful support. The term uniparty is somewhat valid, but the US continues to be fractured by different groups who vote identity over policy. That's a another big reason why the R/D model is obsolete.

    Good point, and I should rephrase that. Given our first-past-the-post system, a duopoly is probably inevitable. As such, given the size and variety of the country, any of the two parties is going to be a big coalition.

    • Replies: @216
    Each UK constituency is much smaller than a US Congressional District.

    Presumably we could have different parties at the smaller state senate and state representative districts.

    I think it would be beneficial if there were separate parties for the federal and state elections.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    The senior partner and junior partner positions in the Republican and Democrat coalitions are worked out in the primaries. Not just special interests but the very mechanisms of the constitution make third parties--real ones, not the fake "independents" who caucus with Democrats--a functional impossibility.
  23. ‘Different Migration Universes’

    We can start with the headline. ‘Migration’ is something ducks or pastoral herders do. In the Spring, they leave their winter homes and go to their summer homes, and in the fall, they leave their summer homes and go back to their winter homes.

    That’s not what we’re talking about here. Very few of these people are definitely going to go back to point A again. They’ve moved for good. Depending on your point of view, they’re either ’emigrants’ or ‘immigrants.’ They’re not ‘migrants.’ ‘Migrants’ have wings and go ‘quack.’

    Let’s get that straight. Then at least you won’t be buying into your opponents’ lying paradigm right from the start.

    • Replies: @216
    "Invasion" is now off limits as a dog-whistle, but "colonization" is still available. It's riskier rhetorically for N Americans and Antipodeans, but strong for W and E Euros, particularly the nations that never had colonies. Presumably useless for Russians.
    , @Mr. Rational

    Depending on your point of view, they’re either ’emigrants’ or ‘immigrants.’ They’re not ‘migrants.’
     
    They're not immigrants.  An immigrant is someone lawfully admitted as a permanent resident.  All others are aliens; those who enter or stay illegally are illegal aliens (as opposed to tourists, who are legal non-resident aliens).

    If you let the left's frame of "no human being is illegal" rule you, you've lost the game already.  Using correct language is essential to winning, because changing the definition of words is part of their game.  Don't let them.
    , @Audacious Epigone
    While it's ideally not permanent, your point is well taken.

    The title was a riff on Mitt Romney's infamous defense of antifa street violence.
    , @Twodees Partain
    True. There was once a cohort known as migrant workers. They traveled the agricultural states going from harvest to harvest and many of them returned to Mexico in the off seasons. There were Jamaicans and other West Indians who came to Connecticut to work the shade tobacco crops who went back home when it was done.

    Eventually, most of these workers just stayed on and drew welfare in the off season. Now, that's the norm. They come and stay, getting on the dole so they can no longer be called migrants.

  24. 216 says: • Website
    @L Woods
    Oh boy. The right is never, ever in a million years going to reclaim “moral authority” when they allow “morality” to be defined by the left. That really should be obvious.

    It’s called the “long march through the institutions” for a reason.

    The first step in the Moldbug path is “become worthy”, the second is “build institutions”, the third is “attain power”.

    Last time I checked, the worthy aren’t funded by selling snake oil and e-girls to working class beta males.

  25. @Colin Wright
    'Different Migration Universes'

    We can start with the headline. 'Migration' is something ducks or pastoral herders do. In the Spring, they leave their winter homes and go to their summer homes, and in the fall, they leave their summer homes and go back to their winter homes.

    That's not what we're talking about here. Very few of these people are definitely going to go back to point A again. They've moved for good. Depending on your point of view, they're either 'emigrants' or 'immigrants.' They're not 'migrants.' 'Migrants' have wings and go 'quack.'

    Let's get that straight. Then at least you won't be buying into your opponents' lying paradigm right from the start.

    “Invasion” is now off limits as a dog-whistle, but “colonization” is still available. It’s riskier rhetorically for N Americans and Antipodeans, but strong for W and E Euros, particularly the nations that never had colonies. Presumably useless for Russians.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    'Invasion” is now off limits as a dog-whistle, but “colonization” is still available. It’s riskier rhetorically for N Americans and Antipodeans, but strong for W and E Euros, particularly the nations that never had colonies. Presumably useless for Russians.'

    I have no real problem with 'immigrate.' They can want to immigrate, and I can choose to bar it. No problem. In fact, I appreciate the implied compliment. It's like telling me you really like my house. Thank you. You can tell when it's available, too: there'll be a 'for rent' sign out front.

    It's 'migrate' that bugs me. Like, we relax and let them in, because they'll go back again anyway.

    No they won't. Call me mistrustful.
  26. @SFG
    Good point, and I should rephrase that. Given our first-past-the-post system, a duopoly is probably inevitable. As such, given the size and variety of the country, any of the two parties is going to be a big coalition.

    Each UK constituency is much smaller than a US Congressional District.

    Presumably we could have different parties at the smaller state senate and state representative districts.

    I think it would be beneficial if there were separate parties for the federal and state elections.

  27. @216
    "Invasion" is now off limits as a dog-whistle, but "colonization" is still available. It's riskier rhetorically for N Americans and Antipodeans, but strong for W and E Euros, particularly the nations that never had colonies. Presumably useless for Russians.

    ‘Invasion” is now off limits as a dog-whistle, but “colonization” is still available. It’s riskier rhetorically for N Americans and Antipodeans, but strong for W and E Euros, particularly the nations that never had colonies. Presumably useless for Russians.’

    I have no real problem with ‘immigrate.’ They can want to immigrate, and I can choose to bar it. No problem. In fact, I appreciate the implied compliment. It’s like telling me you really like my house. Thank you. You can tell when it’s available, too: there’ll be a ‘for rent’ sign out front.

    It’s ‘migrate’ that bugs me. Like, we relax and let them in, because they’ll go back again anyway.

    No they won’t. Call me mistrustful.

    • Replies: @216
    Consider calling them "settlers".

    Academic leftists particularly loathe that word, hoisiting it up via "settler colonialism" as the root of all evil.
  28. @Colin Wright
    'Invasion” is now off limits as a dog-whistle, but “colonization” is still available. It’s riskier rhetorically for N Americans and Antipodeans, but strong for W and E Euros, particularly the nations that never had colonies. Presumably useless for Russians.'

    I have no real problem with 'immigrate.' They can want to immigrate, and I can choose to bar it. No problem. In fact, I appreciate the implied compliment. It's like telling me you really like my house. Thank you. You can tell when it's available, too: there'll be a 'for rent' sign out front.

    It's 'migrate' that bugs me. Like, we relax and let them in, because they'll go back again anyway.

    No they won't. Call me mistrustful.

    Consider calling them “settlers”.

    Academic leftists particularly loathe that word, hoisiting it up via “settler colonialism” as the root of all evil.

  29. @Colin Wright
    'Different Migration Universes'

    We can start with the headline. 'Migration' is something ducks or pastoral herders do. In the Spring, they leave their winter homes and go to their summer homes, and in the fall, they leave their summer homes and go back to their winter homes.

    That's not what we're talking about here. Very few of these people are definitely going to go back to point A again. They've moved for good. Depending on your point of view, they're either 'emigrants' or 'immigrants.' They're not 'migrants.' 'Migrants' have wings and go 'quack.'

    Let's get that straight. Then at least you won't be buying into your opponents' lying paradigm right from the start.

    Depending on your point of view, they’re either ’emigrants’ or ‘immigrants.’ They’re not ‘migrants.’

    They’re not immigrants.  An immigrant is someone lawfully admitted as a permanent resident.  All others are aliens; those who enter or stay illegally are illegal aliens (as opposed to tourists, who are legal non-resident aliens).

    If you let the left’s frame of “no human being is illegal” rule you, you’ve lost the game already.  Using correct language is essential to winning, because changing the definition of words is part of their game.  Don’t let them.

  30. “Self hating white” absolutely needs to be a common thing now. It’s an almost effortless rhetorical KO for those who have grown tired of “cuck” or find it too crass for serious conversation with other right leaning folks with a low power level.

  31. That the sentiments of Jewish Republicans towards contemporary migration into the US is about the same as that of gentile white Democrats would seem to explain a lot about why conservative outlets like The Daily Wire, National Review, and Prager University are consistently at odds with their putative readership over issues surrounding immigration:

    Bingo!

    Republican Party Jew donors such as Shelly Adelson and Paul Singer and Les Wexner and Bernie Marcus and Norman Braman and the like all push nation-wrecking mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and amnesty for illegal alien infiltrator invaders. Now ask yourself who funds these so-called “conservative outlets” and what do they get for doing so?

    In fact, during the Republican Party presidential primary election campaign, Trump made a big deal about Paul Singer’s support for mass immigration extremist Marco Rubio. Trump never made mention of Paul Singer being a Jew, but those who follow politics were aware of Marco Rubio being a complete and total whore for Republican Party Jew donors such as Norman Braman.

    Tweets from 2015:

  32. @Kent Nationalist
    These must be the based right-wing Jews Cofnas was telling me about

    Some of his critique is valid, but Cofnas ignores things like AmRen obviously trying to include as many Jews as possible to deter anti-semitism charges (in vain).

  33. @216

    This is important even though Trump supporters emotionally dismiss it.
     
    Most conservatives are intentionally deficient in their awareness of how little moral authority they have, not only in so-called "polite society" but among almost all liberals and moderates.

    David Cameron had this idea in 2010 about the "Big Society" where the magic hand of the state was supposed to rebuild a high trust civil society based in volunteerism. It disappeared after the election, but I think the foundation was sound. The MAGApedes that did the Baltimore trash cleanup should be emulated, this kind of activism is unobjectionable and might help restore the moral authority of the Right.

    So I think it would be ethical and sensible of the US to clean up its mess there. Of course mindlessly giving “aid” money to local elites is counterproductive.
     
    A better idea is to subsidize the building of infrastructure, the construction jobs would soak up many of the younger men most likely to emigrate. The Chinese are spot on with "Belt and Road", and the US should have joined their project.

    David Cameron had this idea in 2010 about the “Big Society” where the magic hand of the state was supposed to rebuild a high trust civil society based in volunteerism. It disappeared after the election, but I think the foundation was sound. The MAGApedes that did the Baltimore trash cleanup should be emulated, this kind of activism is unobjectionable and might help restore the moral authority of the Right.

    Holy smokes!

    David Cameron’s little rich boy routine where he warbled on about hugging hoodie types was a frigging fraud from the get-go, and people actually give that Dishface Dave Cameron credit for that marketing crap?

    Rich boy hypocrite Dave Cameron told ordinary English people to “hug a hoodie” in response to rising crime in England when that disgusting little plutocrat plop Dishface Dave Cameron lives in rural splendor far, far away from the menacing criminal thugs in their hoodies.

    WOW!

    The White Core American Patriots have the moral high ground as it stands now, and it will control the commanding heights of the mass propaganda apparatus when they destroy the Republican Party globalizers and take control of the mass media in the USA.

    The United States is a European Christian nation and the mass media is controlled by sinister creatures who are not European Christians.

    Cheers!

    I’m proud to have some English blood and I’m proud that the English took the opportunity provided by the political bungling of Dishface Dave Cameron and voted to leave that prison house of nations called the European Union.

    Moral Authority! What a joke!

    How much longer will The Redstone Mob(Viacom/CBS) and The Roberts Gang(Comcast/NBC) and the Sulzberger Gang(NY Times) and the rest of the nation wreckers have all that “moral authority” that comes with controlling all that mass media propaganda?

  34. @neutral
    I think its much simpler than that. Almost everyone has access to global communications, what these people are being shown on their smartphones is that they can enter white (previously white) lands with ease and that life is better there.

    That goes some way in explaining why early in Trump’s term apprehensions of illegal aliens at the border dropped significantly–Latin America was following the US election, and all the hysterical media coverage surrounding it, and many would-be migrants legitimately thought they’d be deported (or worse) if they made the trip.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    Attempted illegal entry and residence in America was quite low from the late 1920's-1960's, due to enforcement of laws being quite high back then. And Eisenhower's policies intimidated foreigners so much that we didn't have that many border crossers until the mid-late 70's*. Other than the implementation of E-verify under Bush I suppose, it's hard to think of any other policy really making any sort of difference over the last 40 years. Due to the sheer number of illegals, since the Clinton era every now and then INS/ICE conducts token raids and deporations** to give the impression that action is being taken, but so many illegals remain uncaught or unnoticed that border crossers have little reason to be all that afraid of deportation.

    *See Mitt Romney's reasonable remark that a moderate number of immigration sweeps would cause a lot of illegals to self-deport while also discouraging others from attempting to come here illegally in the first place. These things aren't hard to figure out.

    **The number of illegals in the Carter and Reagan era was still low enough that the Feds didn't dare conduct raids back then, lest they alienate business owners by denying them immigrant labor and forcing them to hire natives. Remember that the Carter era is when many business owners started to brashly flout laws and social customs intended to help ordinary people. By the Clinton era, there were so many illegals that we started to see an enforcement "equilibrium", under which a fair number of raids would be conducted to convince the public that good stuff was happening, yet these raids wouldn't be so sweeeping that they would "rob" most business owners of cheap labor.
  35. @SFG
    Good point, and I should rephrase that. Given our first-past-the-post system, a duopoly is probably inevitable. As such, given the size and variety of the country, any of the two parties is going to be a big coalition.

    The senior partner and junior partner positions in the Republican and Democrat coalitions are worked out in the primaries. Not just special interests but the very mechanisms of the constitution make third parties–real ones, not the fake “independents” who caucus with Democrats–a functional impossibility.

  36. @Colin Wright
    'Different Migration Universes'

    We can start with the headline. 'Migration' is something ducks or pastoral herders do. In the Spring, they leave their winter homes and go to their summer homes, and in the fall, they leave their summer homes and go back to their winter homes.

    That's not what we're talking about here. Very few of these people are definitely going to go back to point A again. They've moved for good. Depending on your point of view, they're either 'emigrants' or 'immigrants.' They're not 'migrants.' 'Migrants' have wings and go 'quack.'

    Let's get that straight. Then at least you won't be buying into your opponents' lying paradigm right from the start.

    While it’s ideally not permanent, your point is well taken.

    The title was a riff on Mitt Romney’s infamous defense of antifa street violence.

  37. @Colin Wright
    'Different Migration Universes'

    We can start with the headline. 'Migration' is something ducks or pastoral herders do. In the Spring, they leave their winter homes and go to their summer homes, and in the fall, they leave their summer homes and go back to their winter homes.

    That's not what we're talking about here. Very few of these people are definitely going to go back to point A again. They've moved for good. Depending on your point of view, they're either 'emigrants' or 'immigrants.' They're not 'migrants.' 'Migrants' have wings and go 'quack.'

    Let's get that straight. Then at least you won't be buying into your opponents' lying paradigm right from the start.

    True. There was once a cohort known as migrant workers. They traveled the agricultural states going from harvest to harvest and many of them returned to Mexico in the off seasons. There were Jamaicans and other West Indians who came to Connecticut to work the shade tobacco crops who went back home when it was done.

    Eventually, most of these workers just stayed on and drew welfare in the off season. Now, that’s the norm. They come and stay, getting on the dole so they can no longer be called migrants.

  38. @Audacious Epigone
    That goes some way in explaining why early in Trump's term apprehensions of illegal aliens at the border dropped significantly--Latin America was following the US election, and all the hysterical media coverage surrounding it, and many would-be migrants legitimately thought they'd be deported (or worse) if they made the trip.

    Attempted illegal entry and residence in America was quite low from the late 1920’s-1960’s, due to enforcement of laws being quite high back then. And Eisenhower’s policies intimidated foreigners so much that we didn’t have that many border crossers until the mid-late 70’s*. Other than the implementation of E-verify under Bush I suppose, it’s hard to think of any other policy really making any sort of difference over the last 40 years. Due to the sheer number of illegals, since the Clinton era every now and then INS/ICE conducts token raids and deporations** to give the impression that action is being taken, but so many illegals remain uncaught or unnoticed that border crossers have little reason to be all that afraid of deportation.

    *See Mitt Romney’s reasonable remark that a moderate number of immigration sweeps would cause a lot of illegals to self-deport while also discouraging others from attempting to come here illegally in the first place. These things aren’t hard to figure out.

    **The number of illegals in the Carter and Reagan era was still low enough that the Feds didn’t dare conduct raids back then, lest they alienate business owners by denying them immigrant labor and forcing them to hire natives. Remember that the Carter era is when many business owners started to brashly flout laws and social customs intended to help ordinary people. By the Clinton era, there were so many illegals that we started to see an enforcement “equilibrium”, under which a fair number of raids would be conducted to convince the public that good stuff was happening, yet these raids wouldn’t be so sweeeping that they would “rob” most business owners of cheap labor.

  39. @neutral
    I think its much simpler than that. Almost everyone has access to global communications, what these people are being shown on their smartphones is that they can enter white (previously white) lands with ease and that life is better there.

    Back in the Ellis Island days*, lots of immigrants were brought here to work as cheap labor. That is still the case these days. Publicly, leadership claims that immigrants are culturally enriching. Privately, big business hands these leaders big wads of cash while also warning that restricted immigration would shrink the economy hopelessly.

    Technology changes don’t really account for how corrupt our elite happens to be in some eras. We could easily keep out, kick out, or even violently attack, low-grade third worlders if our leaders were serious about protecting the future prospects of the West.

    *We got better quality immigrants back then, since America’s empire wasn’t collapsing at the time.

  40. @Thomm
    Strangely, public perception of immigration has tilted even more towards a favorable view :

    https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/qb3vc6ciuegomt8gixe4lq.png

    Mass shootings, and rampant talk of an incipient Neo-Nazi take-over, are both proof that a major wave of mental illness and mass hysteria are upon us. No surprise that many people are now convinced that more immigration is a good thing, even as it fuels the frustration of prole whites and red staters who can understand the Texas Wal-Mart shooter for martyring himself on behalf of restrictionists.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational

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