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One thing that keeps coming up in contemporary American polling data is how, once race is taken into account, the correlation between age and partisan affiliation is either non-existent or even the inverse of what has tended to be the case over the last several decades. From the enormous–albeit not scientifically collected–GoToQuiz.com survey database, two-way partisan affiliation among non-Hispanic whites by age and by sex:

The gender gap is becoming a chasm.

Whether the inversion of the relationship between age and partisan affiliation benefits Republicans or Democrats more is difficult to tell. Not surprisingly in light of this shift, Democrats have now become the party of big corporate money (or at least the senior partner in the Uniparty), consistently and significantly out-raising Republicans (see 2008, 2012, and 2016) for more than a decade now.

On the other hand, though it’s more difficult to quantify, the creative energy–especially the subversive counterculture energy–is increasingly coming from the right.

Someone like Andrew Yang could reverse this trend–a trend that president Trump retarded after candidate Trump accelerated it–but it’s hard to see the senescent former senator from Delaware doing so.

 
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  1. L Woods says:

    But please WNs, keep worshiping white women. After all, that’s what makes us “better” than the Muslims.

  2. MBlanc46 says:

    Interesting. I was a part of the counterculture when I was a young man in the 1960s. And I’m a part of the counterculture now that I’m an old man in the 2010s. In the 1960s I was considered, and considered myself, a Leftist. Now I’m considered, and consider myself, on the Right.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  3. @MBlanc46

    I would have to search to find who is credited with it, but I like the turn of phrase:  “When you find yourself in the majority, it is time to reform.”

    This is a corollary of Vox Day’s adage:  “MPAI (most people are idiots)”.

  4. Anonymous[240] • Disclaimer says:

    I think this phenomenon is also seen on websites like YouTube (higher barrier to entry + shyness around video = more male-oriented platform) vs. Twitter (easy anonymity, lower risk of social shame via your image, and low entry barrier = 90% of content comes from primarily female, Leftist and older types). This is perhaps even quantifiable. If you look at New Atheist YouTube channels like Cultofdusty, for instance, their viewership has declined maybe 80 – 90% since their heyday 10 years ago; that channel specialized on insulting Christians and trying to be edgy by being Leftist. Since the fall of these kinds of channels, numerous other anti-SJW counterculture channels have risen in their place. Additionally, Leftist TYT probably doesn’t do as well as they used to anymore, either (they’ve laid off lots of people). Also, several counterculture gaming channels – white male – exist that get better viewership than professional outlets like IGN on average. Perhaps it might be worth the effort to use Socialblade statistics and graph the fall of these older Leftists in comparison to the newer counterculture anti-SJW guys.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
    , @Feryl
  5. ….especially the subversive counterculture energy–is increasingly coming from the right.

    Deplorables are not Republicans. Can the pollsters get around that? I’m Deplorable because I am a Populist. I would say Nationalist but nobody can agree what that means. I migrated here from the left. I’m a Union Man not a Snow Flake. I followed the “subversive energy” here. Today’s so called Left hates guys like me.

    So I’m voting straight Republican. But only because I prefer Trump to his enemies. I am not a Republican but that could change if and when the Deplorables find leadership inside the party.

    Anyway yeah. It makes sense to me that the youngsters are looking right. The left is the establishment now.

  6. So basically white Gen Z will just pull the R lever no matter what. The R party can continue to be anti white pro ag, but will stay competitive anyways due to reverse sailer strategy.

    It’s going to end up like the blacks and the dems. Always vote R becaus “they the white party” despite doing nothing good for whites.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  7. Anon[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Rational

    I believe it is a Mark Twain quote. I have also cited it in my transition from “left” to “right.”

  8. “Interesting. I was a part of the counterculture when I was a young man in the 1960s. And I’m a part of the counterculture now that I’m an old man in the 2010s. In the 1960s I was considered, and considered myself, a Leftist. Now I’m considered, and consider myself, on the Right.”

    Understanding the counter-culture as I do (and maybe I have it all wrong) The above comment is a quite a mind bender. That things have gotten or become so amiss that even the counter culture counters that which they previously embraced.

    I take it Ms. Jane Fonda (a very fine actress and still fine looking) is running for office on a conservative platform.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  9. @Mr. Rational

    I’m also like that. I always deliberately reject the majority.

  10. Mr Puroik says:

    The simple fact is that youth will always rebel against the establishment. Young boomers and millenials were left, because in their day the establishment was hawkish Nixon right and the neo-con Bush crowd, respectively. The problem the left today is having is that it physically cannot sell itself as the anti-establishment, subversive, revolutionary party. They control all the big corporations, especially in big tech, they have a handle on the news media, the academy, the government institutions etc. It is no longer possible to say “I’m a Democrat” or “I support gay marriage” and have anyone think you are being edgy or making a statement against The Man. Nowadays people assume that is the norm and you’re going to get fired if you dare disagree with it.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  11. Curiouser: Republican identification goes up in the age range after people are no longer snagging the many distracting, youth-dominated, fun-employment and glam jobs. It goes up since more Americans than ever are single, childless or otherwise not qualified for the rent-covering, food-covering, electricity-covering monthly welfare and the monthly cash assistance and refundable child tax credit cash up to $6,431.

    For womb-productive and welfare-eligible young citizens and noncitizens in low-wage jobs, this unearned income bumps up wages to livable levels in an era when wages have fallen—with rents and other major expenses rising—for 40 years.

    This is true even among the welfare-ineligible middle-aged people with kids over 18. The single ones must cover all household bills on earned-only income, throwing the welfare-rigged labor market into sharper focus than when people are young, distracted by surfaces, seduced by hype about opportunity and delusional about economic realities.

    When the non-welfare-eligible group gets closer to retirement age, in the late middle aged (or older) category, they start thinking about how they will have nothing to retire on except an on-average SS check of $1,400 per month. They start thinking about how rent for a one-room apartment is hovering around $900.

    Many single citizens will have even less SS-retirement income since it is the dual-high-earner parents in their family-friendly, vacation-friendly, absenteeism-friendly, above-firing jobs who get the higher SS checks. That is because they were able to hold onto higher-paying jobs for 5 or more years despite taking off whole mornings, whole afternoons, whole days and whole weeks for kids, in excess of PTO and lengthy pregnancy leave(s).

    The above-firing parents, holding onto two of those higher-paying jobs for 5 or more years while concentrating the wealth from non-job-creating jobs in fewer households, will have two bigger SS checks per household, plus two 401k streams or a 401k and an annuity from a voted-best-for-moms government job, like public school teaching.

    They did not not have to cover all household bills on one stream of earned-only income, enabling them to save for retirement without giving up multiple and lengthy global vacations per year, a posh zip-code house that will be paid-off in retirement in many cases, lots of fine dining out, private schools for the kiddos and a list of minor luxuries from A to Z.

    That is the time in life when Republican-leaning late-middle-aged adults must decide. Even though the welfare-rigged labor market that enables welfare-eligible single moms, legal and illegal immigrants to work for rock-bottom wages, likewise awarding them legal protections that whites don’t have in majority-minority workplaces, is associated more with Democrats, Republicans have not done one red thing to change it since they, too, are bought off by the Cheap Labor Lobby.

    Given that there’s is no real difference between the parties where actions are concerned, should we vote against the paltry stream of SS-retirement income, into which we had to contribute either 7.65 or 15.3% of every dime we ever earned, while single moms, legal and illegal immigrants collected billions in unearned welfare money all during their womb-productive working years, although they did not contribute one red cent to those means-tested programs? Nor did they pay income tax when collecting up to $6,431 in yearly, refundable child tax credit cash to spend as they pleased. All they did was work part time, keeping traceable income under the earned-income limits for welfare programs.

    Republicans occasionally critique the womb-productivity-based means-tested welfare rigging of the labor market, but they never cut the welfare other than the negligible amount of food-assistance-only that the single and childless (the ABAWDs) can get every 3 years for 3 months (only). Republicans criticize the contributory, majoritarian programs of Social Security and Medicare frequently, while actually cutting what seniors paid into.

    Two bad choices don’t make a good choice. Maybe, that explains the lack of huge differences.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  12. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    How do you know that though (Gen Z will just pull lever “R”, or swipe, cause that’s all they know how to do is to swipe everything)? I would agree if this poll data was consistent from the 00’s, UFO, i.e. well before Trump got people’s hopes up (then dashed them …)

    My question to A.E. would be, how about Mr. Sailer’s contention, backed by data, that there is not so much a sex gap, but a marriage gap?

  13. Someone like Andrew Yang could reverse this trend–a trend that president Trump retarded after candidate Trump accelerated it…

    Speaking of retarded, that would describe anyone, Generation X or not, who falls for this Yang’s Socialist Stupidity.

  14. It’s predictable that the democrat party collects more loot from everyone; Angelo Codevilla’s essay some years ago notes that democrats routinely poll that the Dem Party represents their beliefs, while self-identified republicans generally agree that they have no political representation in the Republican Party.

    I figure the only reason the Republicans ever get any money at all is that those intent on buying for themselves the government are careful to spread a little of their bribes around, just in case…

    The USA has a vast populace entirely disenfranchised by this sham-of-a-polity.
    From: http://www.claremont.org/crb/article/the-rise-of-political-correctness/

    My 2010 article for the American Spectator, “The Ruling Class and the Perils of Revolution,” argued that “some two-thirds of Americans—a few Democratic voters, most Republican voters, and all independents—lack a vehicle in electoral politics.” [Emphasis added] Resentment of the patent disregard for the Constitution and statutes with which the ruling class has permeated American life, along with its cultural war enforced by P.C., meant that “Sooner or later, well or badly, that majority’s demand for representation will be filled.” I noted: “Unfortunately, it is easier for anyone who dislikes a court’s or an official’s unlawful act to counter it with another unlawful one than to draw all parties back to the foundation of truth.”

    That is because a majority of Americans—realizing that the Constitution and the laws have ceased to protect them from unending injuries to their way of life; aggravated by being insulted as “irredemable” and “deplorable” racists, sexists, etc.; eager for relief and, yes, for payback with interest; knowing that the ruling class is closed to argument from those it considers its inferiors—have no option but to turn the tables in the hope that, suffering the same kind of insulting oppression, the ruling class might learn the value of treating others as they themselves like to be treated. More likely, doing this would be one more turn in the spiral of reprisals typical of revolutions. And yet, there seems no way of avoiding this.

    What is to be done with a political system in which no one any longer believes? This is a revolutionary question because America’s ruling class largely destroyed, along with its own credibility, the respect for truth, and the culture of restraint that had made the American people unique stewards of freedom and prosperity. Willful masses alienated from civilization turn all too naturally to revolutions’ natural leaders. Donald Trump only foreshadows the implacable men who, Abraham Lincoln warned, belong to the “family of the lion and the tribe of the eagle.”

    In short, the P.C. “changes in law and public norms” (to quote Galston again) that the ruling class imposed on the rest of America, rather than having “gradually brought about changes in private attitudes across partisan and ideological lines” as the ruling class imagined (and as Gramsci would have approved) have set off a revolution—of which we can be sure only that it won’t be pretty.

  15. Jason Liu says:

    The sexes becoming alienated towards each other has an end-of-civilization smell to it

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Buck
  16. Buck says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The marriage gap is the critical statistic for whites. If married, women tend to vote with their husbands and the interest of the family. Single women vote for the security of big government. The gap between married and single women almost totally mirrors the gap between genders.

    Unfortunately for the Republicans, fewer whites are getting married and their policy proposals scare single women and families alike.

    The only hope for the Republican party is if they finish transitioning into a nationalist-populist party. Policy should focus on helping American families and differentiating from globalist Democrats.

    Some policy prescriptions:

    Personal deduction for every adult citizen of $25,000. That makes it much more advantageous for two parent households as it would basically eliminate taxes for incomes under $50,000. And it would encourage marriage so couples could file jointly to take advantage of joined income (so if the wife or husband is underemployed, the full deduction can still be taken).

    Make Federally funded benefits available only to adult citizens. No more anchor babies securing benefits for their illegal parents.

    End foreign wars and reduce entanglements. Iran? Russia? North Korea? Venezuela? South China Sea? Who cares? You know who doesn’t care? Every female voter.

    20% value added tariff on every product and service coming over the border. Every. Single. One. No exceptions. We are blessed with enormous resources and enough people to maintain a diverse market. If people want to spend a little more for French wine, ok. But companies need to understand that access to this market is dependent on capital investment rather than extraction. 20% is low enough not to cause inflation but high enough to encourage domestic production.

    Subsidized health savings accounts and high deductible health insurance for every citizen. Not “Medicare for all” or socialized medicine. Give each citizen the ability to be their own healthcare consumer rather than a third party payer, government or employer.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  17. Buck says:
    @Jason Liu

    However, the end of civilization would force them back together. Humans have been around for ages. Civilization is just the latest age of a few thousand years. Natural human relations have been strained by this latest post-modern, post-industrial iteration of civilization. The ending of it would probably help the survivors. In the long run. Maybe. Or it’s the apocalypse.

  18. @Endgame Napoleon

    They start thinking about how rent for a one-room apartment is hovering around $900.

    Lies.

    Average rent here is a little bit below $1,200 for a one bedroom apartment.

    • Replies: @iffen
  19. @Mr. Rational

    That applies to a large subset of people–contrarians–who find their way to places like UR. Another large subset are dissidents. There is a some overlap between the two, but they’re not the same. This distinction is something I’d like to flesh out in more detail in the future.

  20. @WorkingClass

    It’s common to hear people say things like “I’m a conservative first and a Republican second”, or “I’m a Christian first, a conservative second, and a Republican third”. When we hear them replacing “conservative” in those sentences with “populist” or “nationalist”, we’ll know we’re getting somewhere.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  21. @Mr Puroik

    The social media censoring is hitting the rawest nerve of all. Think of how many more Zoomers watch PewDiePie than watch CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, Fox News, and PBS combined.

    • Replies: @Mr Puroik
  22. @Achmed E. Newman

    At least since 2000, the marriage gap has been 2x-3x as important as the sex gap. This is predominately because of women (ie the marriage/single gap is wider among women than among men). In 2018, it did narrow but the marriage gap was still slightly larger, albeit on the order of 1.5x. Young married whites–men and women–are really Republican. The ‘problem’ is that there aren’t many of them.

  23. @Mr. Rational

    Congratulations on congratulating yourselves. You are very good at congratulating yourselves. Excellent self-congratulating skills. I bet your self-congratulation IQ is off the charts.

  24. Mark G. says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    If you break it down by economic class, marriage is still fairly common in the middle class. The big decline has been among working class whites. White working class females have been hit especially hard by societal changes in recent years. Recent declines in U.S. life expectancy have been concentrated in the middle aged members of this group. White working class females have developed a lot of addictive behaviors. They get addicted to drugs, to alcohol, to bad boys, to welfare. All these addictive behaviors take their toll as they get older and many of them will die prematurely. White working class females are dimly aware a lot of their problems stem from a lack of marriageable males due to the loss of factory jobs. An establishment Romney type of Republican wouldn’t appeal to them but many of them voted for Trump in the last election. Trump has been trumpeting how well the economy has been doing lately but unfortunately things aren’t really any better out here in the Rust Belt. The stock market is doing great but stocks are mostly owned by the top ten percent of wealthiest people. There are more jobs but they are mostly part time low paid jobs. Trump needs to put Main Street ahead of Wall Street. He is having the Fed inflate to boost stock prices but he should follow a deflationary policy instead. Wages and prices would drop. The lower wages would make American workers more competitive on the world market and help bring jobs back but workers wouldn’t be hurt by the lower wages since they would also have lower prices. If there were more good jobs for white working class men, then more of them could get married and the increase in married couples would lead to more Republican voters.

  25. My first question before reading the rest of the comments is what’s the graph look like after controlling for single WW and married WW?

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  26. iffen says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    except an on-average SS check of $1,400 per month. They start thinking about how rent for a one-room apartment is hovering around $900.

    Lies.
    Average rent here is a little bit below $1,200 for a one bedroom apartment.

    SSA:

    If we look at life expectancy statistics from the 1930s we might come to the conclusion that the Social Security program was designed in such a way that people would work for many years paying in taxes, but would not live long enough to collect benefits. Life expectancy at birth in 1930 was indeed only 58 for men and 62 for women, and the retirement age was 65.

    bada bing bada boom

  27. @Mark G.

    Can somebody explain what’s wrong with just going back to a hardscrabble life the way their ancestors did?

    Okay so the coal’s gone, the manufacturing is dead. Time to pick up a shovel and start farming the way your great-great grandparents did. They seemed to have no issues with living in poor, rural Appalachia, or the Midwest, farming, living and dying in the dirt.

    I’m serious. Just start homesteading and you can pretty much live with your expenses covered. Pop out a few kids to take over once you get old, and you’re set. This is how the more adventurous and hardy crop of immigrants lived when they came to the USA.

    But the working class whites seem to have their spirits extinguished. Instead of plowing the land they turn to drugs and alcohol. Personally, I would take the hard but honest life of farming. If I ever get SOL, then no problem because I will get a tiny plot somewhere and become a subsistance farmer. Not even kidding. Secretly I’d almost prefer that to city life.

  28. @Anonymous

    That sounds like a fascinating avenue of study. It’d take me a little boning up on the relevant players but my guess is you’re onto something.

  29. @dc.sunsets

    More succinctly, America hasn’t had her Sulla… yet.

  30. @Mark G.

    One of the most destructive lies perpetuated over the last century is the idea that falling prices are a bad thing. Bad? That’s how we know we are getting wealthier. Is it bad that desktops–for the dwindling number who still use them–are a tenth of what they were 20 years ago (even without adjusting for inflation) or that full genome sequence is now one-ten thousandth of what it was then?

    The ‘problem’, of course, is that it’s hard to inflate asset prices when other prices are falling, and it’s even harder to steal from the citizenry via stealth inflation by pumping money into the system.

    The last few times, the inflation has mostly been corralled into financial instruments. When it breaks out into consumer goods is when the pain will really start. That’s coming. Soon.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  31. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Unfortunately the source doesn’t provide that information.

  32. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    There are religious communities where you can get pretty close to exactly that.

  33. @Audacious Epigone

    Of course. But that doesn’t seem to attract the formerly working, now unemployed class whites. They get depressed and go to the bottle/drugs. Really the smartest thing you can do, if you have no future prospects, is to join a religious sect like the Amish or Mennonites, where you can convert in, get a wife, get a hands-on occupation and get meaning back into your life. If not the Amish then you could just do some homesteading in a homestead community or with other families you know.

    The problem is that these poor people seem to be stuck between a desire for modernity and their actual roots. They want to be rich, they want a nice wife, they want an easy job at the factory. But that no longer exists. Instead of thinking outside the system, they just think they’ve failed inside and drop out.

    But the smart ones would drop out into something else. It will be interesting to see, as the Amish population continues to explode, if they will gain many converts of white men (and women) who have just totally dropped out from society but are not interested in drug use.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    , @dc.sunsets
  34. @Peripatetic Commenter

    Steve Sailer did something like this several years ago. Blacks in the upper Midwest do the worst. Hawaii tends to be the best states for black performance because of the large military presence in the state.

    It would be neat to have an update though I’m not sure how easy it would be to get contemporary data.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  35. Whitney says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Yeah I always think of that is if you’re part of the mob, you’re wrong. But I’m a pathological non Joiner. I have been my whole life and now I am a proud member of the 33.3%

  36. @Mark G.

    he should follow a deflationary policy instead. Wages and prices would drop.

    And anyone with an outstanding loan would be squeezed between constant payments and falling wages, and be likely to default.  This would be 2008 all over again.

    The lower wages would make American workers more competitive on the world market and help bring jobs back but workers wouldn’t be hurt by the lower wages since they would also have lower prices.

    The problem is that we’ve run up too much debt.  Deflation just makes debt worse.  Were I in charge, I’d go for a decade or so of 20% per year inflation with compensation to domestic savers.  At the end of the decade the currency would be worth vastly less, so would the associated debt not associated with savings (esp. foreign debt), and we would have had what amounted to a jubilee at the expense of the banksters:  all of their loans not based on deposits would have had 90% of their value just evaporate.

    If there were more good jobs for white working class men, then more of them could get married

    You can’t do this while there are still race and sex quotas.  You have to get rid of those first.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  37. @Buck

    I can’t see a single thing to disagree with there. Newman/Buck 2020! (or, you know in the other order, but …)

  38. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    I may be too old for the whole thing, but I like that attitude. What I’ve seen is that it’s not only that Americans can’t fathom the life you’re writing about, but they don’t even want to scrimp the littlest bit, even though their wages have not been keeping up with inflation that is way higher than the BLS says (Hooked on Hedonics, anyone?). That’s why they are in so much debt – they are going in debt to keep the same standard of life of the ’90’s and 00’s.

  39. @Mark G.

    Your depiction of the real economy is correct, IMO, Mark. On the working-class females, the biggest addiction is by far the welfare. Without that, they would probably be married-with-kids stay-at-home females with a good bit more loyalty to their working-class husbands than you ever see today.

    Trump CANNOT let the FED raise interest rates, as that would put the stock market, the only thing going, as you mention, into a big long dive. Secondly, the US Federal budget, with the debt > $22,000,000,000,000 right now, would have a problem that even most educated of the economists would notice. That 6% sliver of expenditures seen in the back of the IRS 1040 booklet, at the present net interest rate of just over 1 %, would become something like the big mouth of Ms. Pac Man, if rates went to natural levels (imagine at 7%, the interest payment being 35-40% of all expenditures, meaning more like 50% of the government intake via taxes!)

    It really doesn’t matter who’s President on this one, even if it were Ron Paul. The country is financially between a rock and a hard place.

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  40. @Audacious Epigone

    With the exception of during wartime (1812-14, the War of Northern Aggression, WWI), per a graph in this Peak Stupidity post, the CPI in the US was steady from 1715 through the 1930 or so, that is for 2 CENTURIES!

    The reason people believe this lie that inflation is just a part of life is that it’s been the case through almost everyone still alive’s entire lifetime. No, it wasn’t always this way. You get inflation, very simply, by increasing the currency supply without backing it up by real money (GOLD/SILVER).

    You are quite right, A.E. – it will catch up to us, or already is, somewhat. I think prices have risen way more than the BLS has been advertising, especially in the later ’00’s through now. I think the middle 1990’s were a time of truly low inflation, because the manufacturing was being outsourced to China, and we were paying for goods made with very cheap labor, but the loss of jobs hadn’t really kicked the economy in the ass yet. During those years, I recall the quality of the Chinese goods being much better than now, so I really noticed that one could get the same stuff (say bike parts, home hardware, whatever) for the same price or even a tad cheaper, and it was not the Cheap China-made Crap yet.

  41. Jay Fink says:
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    I don’t see why the two choices have to be the extremes of a druggie lifestyle or becoming Amish. Amish women don’t appeal to me because they are too modest and plain looking. I would rather have no wife than a boring unsexy one who dresses like someone from 200 years ago. Plus I would hate not to use any technology. That sounds hellish to me.

    Most of you who don’t like my anti-Amish comments could not handle becoming an Amish…you can romanticize it from a distance but you couldn’t live it.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  42. Twinkie says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    It’s common to hear people say things like “I’m a conservative first and a Republican second”, or “I’m a Christian first, a conservative second, and a Republican third”.

    For me, it’s always been God, country, family.

    When we hear them replacing “conservative” in those sentences with “populist” or “nationalist”, we’ll know we’re getting somewhere.

    I am by nature a Burkean conservative, but I no longer call myself a conservative, because there isn’t much left to conserve for a Burkean. The forces that are in control of the institutions in society are all revolutionary in philosophy and increasingly so in actions as well. They have upended so much of what is normal that I feel I and others who are likeminded must now be counter-revolutionaries. I suppose if I had to call myself something politically, it’d be an America-First civic nationalist.*

    *My civic nationalism is practical, not theoretical, which means that I support implicit white-majoritarianism.

  43. Twinkie says:
    @Jay Fink

    Amish women don’t appeal to me because they are too modest and plain looking. I would rather have no wife than a boring unsexy one who dresses like someone from 200 years ago. Plus I would hate not to use any technology. That sounds hellish to me.

    Most of you who don’t like my anti-Amish comments could not handle becoming an Amish…you can romanticize it from a distance but you couldn’t live it.

    This tells me you don’t really understand the benefits of an Amish life. It’s not about having a sexy wife – it’s about having a strong sense of communal cohesion and mutual-support that is unimaginable to those atomized modern American families these days. Most men can survive not having a sexy wife, but few can survive the lack of community.

    But you are right that you don’t have to be Amish or forego technology to enjoy such benefits. Mormons – weird and frankly devilish heretics though they are – often strike a good balance between modernity and community (although, to be fair, there is a sizable exodus of Mormon males from that religion and therefore something of a dearth of marriageable age single Mormon men, about which many unmarried Mormon females bemoan). Evangelical Protestants and traditional Catholics often have similar (though smaller scale) communities.

  44. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Can somebody explain what’s wrong with just going back to a hardscrabble life the way their ancestors did?

    Two things are holding me, a mid 20s person, from doing just that:

    1) Student debt and accompanying problems, such as lack of capital
    2) Lack of experience – generation after generation decreased in experience until we got to me, who has to learn the hard way. For instance: no one taught me how to hunt; how to fish; how to grow a family-sized plot of corn or tomatoes; etc. I have to teach myself, which isn’t the hardest thing in the world, but it requires a lot of time, which isn’t always easy to come by.

    I’m working on it, but completing the tasks is going to take a long time. Unfortunately, I did not became red-pilled until after I had already gone into debt to the college system. (Better red-pilled late than never, though)

    My ancestors already knew how to live hardscrabble, and they didn’t have lots and lots and lots of debt.

    These, especially #1, are all but universal problems for young white working/middle class people

    Student debt is an atrocity. Academia is a problem to which there must be a final solution.

    And as far as farming goes, you make it sound as though it’s as easy as going to find the land and getting started! This is not Homestead Act era Nebraska, my friend. Land was cheap for my ancestors; it’s incredibly expensive now. The only land that’s still cheap is either unfarmable or very, very hard to farm. That takes us back to problem #1, lack of capital. And we can’t just squat either. Although I’d love to know how, if you have any ideas.

  45. iffen says:
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    Can somebody explain what’s wrong with just going back to a hardscrabble life the way their ancestors did?

    It’s genetic, most of them descend from people who gave everything, including their lives, to get away from the “hardscrabble life.”

    Only someone without a clue as to what subsistence farming is (and sometimes fails to be) could write a vacuous comment like this.

  46. @iffen

    I largely agree with you

    Dolly Parton grew up in poverty in rural Tennessee. Here’s what she had to say:

    No amount of money could buy from me
    The memories that I have of them
    No amount of money could pay me
    To go back and live through it again

    I like Merle Haggard’s cover of that song.

    I could sit here all day naming country singers alone who did everything in their power to get out of the hardscrabble life.

    Many of them retired back in the country somewhere quiet and peaceful, but none of them went back to the “good old days.”

    I rather wonder if UrbaneFrancoOntarian has ever lived or tried to live the hardscrabble life.

  47. @Audacious Epigone

    Where?

    Take the Amish for example.

    20 years ago, something like 90% of Amish were not directly involved in farming.

    Yes, really.

    They were more involved in small manufacture, food processing and sales, craft industries, and the like.

    Some of the Amish leaders were concerned that so many of their people were no longer farmers, but, their attitude was, make the best with what we have. There wasn’t enough land. Luckily for the Amish, the continued decline of “English” (mainstream) farmers means land is often opening up for them. They have enough capital to buy that newly-sold land, so the Amish are able to at least break even in terms of farmland ownership. (New York Amish, for example, have bought lots of land in southwestern New York over the last several decades as dairy farmers go broke)

    But, in any case, more rural/agricultural religious communities have been doing it for long enough that they can teach young people what to do. America’s mainstream individuals have no such background.

    I sympathize with a back to the land idea, but let’s be realistic about it.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  48. Mr Puroik says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    yes this is very true. As someone who has spent a lot of time with Gen Z due to my job, I can safely say that, for all their problems and foibles (and let’s be honest this generation is messed up in its own way), they have an instinctive hatred for the “safe spaces” BS and the puritanical atmosphere of the Left. My generation grew up in an age where we still associated puritanism and censorship with the Christian Right; most of these younger folks’ first exposure to it has come entirely from the feminazis and the professionally offended, and so have come to associate free speech and free expression with the conservative end of the spectrum

  49. neutral says:

    As Hitler said it so well: “I stand here as a revolutionary, it is as a revolutionary against the revolution”.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  50. @iffen

    Its always fun to hear people talk about farming when they most likely have never even fixed a garden bed.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @iffen
  51. @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    People are herd animals.

    A “get back to your ‘farming’ roots” movement could be among the fashionable responses to the inevitable changes in trend ahead.

    Do not underestimate the power of inertia and path-dependency. Extremely few people actually think for themselves at all, and even those who do so still spend most of their (our) time herding, flocking and schooling.

  52. Twinkie says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Its always fun to hear people talk about farming when they most likely have never even fixed a garden bed.

    No kidding. I farmed for my in-laws for a while in the Midwest where the soil is ridiculously rich (and equally expensive). It wasn’t subsistence farming, and I didn’t do the labor most of the time (I supervised mostly and there were lots of machines), but it was some of the hardest work I ever did. I often started the day at 4-5 AM and worked until sun down. And I was constantly worried about the weather, pests, prices of inputs, prices of the crops, labor issues, etc. You could do everything right and things could go badly and lose money.

    Not only would subsistence farming be much harder, one and one’s family would starve, not just lose money, with one bad drought or pestilence. And where I live now the soil is all clay, not exactly that thick black soil that sprouts everything.

  53. Twinkie says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    They were more involved in small manufacture, food processing and sales, craft industries, and the like.

    They make good furniture.

  54. @Twinkie

    And where I live now the soil is all clay, not exactly that thick black soil that sprouts everything.

    You’ve been in a kibbutz. How do the Israelis get anything to grow in that arid desert soil?

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Twinkie
  55. @Twinkie

    I have a pretty efficient garden of vegetables where I monitor the soil composition and made amendments now and then(usually 10-15% compost), but the seeds germinate under a grow light indoors under vermiculite. I’m hitting 90% germination, so I’m pretty happy with the results, but I don’t think I grow nearly enough at all.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  56. Twinkie says:
    @Johann Ricke

    How do the Israelis get anything to grow in that arid desert soil?

    Irrigation, climate-appropriate crops (fruits and vegetables), and Thai workers.

    Some of the best Thai food I ate outside Thailand was in Tel Aviv.

  57. Twinkie says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    What you are doing is pretty labor- and input-intensive “boutique” farming (gardening). When you farm commercially, it’s all about the least costly inputs (seeds, fertilizers, pesticides, water, labor, etc.) and maximum yields. But then things go too well for everyone, prices collapse, and you lose money anyway. I never want to farm commercially again – I only did it to help out my in-laws when their manager in charge quit. It was more stressful and cruddier work than hunting terrorists in a Southeast Asian jungle.

  58. Twinkie says:
    @Johann Ricke

    By the way, Tel Aviv is miserably humid in the summer (kinda like Iowa). Jerusalem is on the hills and has really pleasant, dry breezes (like Colorado Springs). But for agriculture the positives are reversed.

    During Roman times, Judea grew rich from frankincense and myrrh (as did Yemen), which were more expensive than gold.

    Also, most people don’t realize that, at one time, the province of Africa, around Carthage, was the second richest part of the Roman Empire after Egypt. There were massive latifundias in North Africa, owned by the senatorial class in Italy.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  59. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    They are literally giving land away in Northern Ontario:

    https://www.citynews1130.com/2017/09/30/ontario-town-offers-90-per-cent-off-land-other-incentives-to-move-there/

    You can get an acre up there for $30,000 CAD. Yes, it is farmable there, but no it is not easy. It would take extensive planning to survive. That said, the game/fish ecosystem is bursting with tasty little morsels. You could easily fish every day.

    As far as the debt… well, I’m sorry about that. That said, most working class white guys don’t have student debt (I don’t think), they have no job.

  60. iffen says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Its always fun to hear people talk about farming when they most likely have never even fixed a garden bed.

    Yeah, funny and sad. I hope some of these “back to land” types take up dairy farming. That’s a 7 days each week fun fest.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  61. Feryl says:
    @Anonymous

    The Religious Right’s peak was the late 80’s-early 2000’s; much of this base is now old or dead. Why put effort into bashing something that’s irrelevant*? In addition, GW Bush was a major embarrassment, and there was a lot of “sport” involving bashing of actual and presumed Bush supporting Republicans in the 2000’s (this sort of bashing is why people born in the 1980’s are so reluctant to fully identify as Republicans).

    *Christianity’s Reaganite “make-over” in the 80’s was caused by Silents and Boomers; younger generations will shape religion into something else, to the extent that they care about religion at all, and by all appearances younger generations often don’t. The current furor over PC and identity politics barely seems to have any relationship with Christianity, as the New Right doesn’t place Christianity at the heart of the movement, a big contrast from Reaganism.

  62. Feryl says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I recall the quality of the Chinese goods being much better than now,

    Two possible explanations:

    1) Multi-nationals strictly supervised quality control, so as to stop Westerners from questioning the wisdom of off-shoring our production (if the stuff had been crap from the get-go, it’s possible that there would’ve been a major backlash to every company and politician that supported NAFTA)

    2) China was still fairly vulnerable, and anxious to strengthen it’s reputation and leverage. So the Chinese facilities did a decent job of quality control themselves. By the time you get to the 2010’s, China has become so powerful that it can now get away with making crap.

  63. Feryl says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Steve Sailer did something like this several years ago. Blacks in the upper Midwest do the worst. Hawaii tends to be the best states for black performance because of the large military presence in the state.

    It seems to me that the further South you go, the more likely the white population was to “lay down the law” with blacks. Consequently, a lot of the “bad” blacks either got locked up or were driven out;plus, as time went on it became common knowledge among blacks that the further North you went, the more generous the welfare benefits were. It may have taken some time, but by circa 1990 Minnesota and Wisconsin both had established fairly sizable black communities (compared to the fact that they once essentially did not exist in either state), drawn by the welfare benefits and the naivete of the white population there (sad to say, but the most predatory blacks probably relished the idea of scaring the white people of this region).

    Millennial whites in Minnesota, in my experience, have memories of the Crack War era and as such, tend to have a pretty realistic grasp of the black “community” of the Upper Midwest (a blight of child abuse, random murders, street loitering, and cheap drugs/booze). Furthermore, whereas Southern whites often feel paternal and guilty about blacks, Midwestern whites tend to think of blacks as being welfare mooching invaders (hell, even some of the Boomers will tell you that in the 70’s, the “best” of St Louis, Chicago, and Gary found it’s way to Minneapolis and Milwaukee, and we’ve been sorry that it happened ever since).

    • Agree: Mark G.
  64. @Whitney

    “pathological” might be a little hyperbolic, but it’s not wrong, especially in a democratic system.

  65. Feryl says:
    @WorkingClass

    There were a lot of Obama to Trump voters, many of them in the Midwest, who are allergic to typical Republican crap, and some of them have soured on Trump and are tired of the GOP refusing to change it’s tune. Yet these people are also fed up with the Dems. It’s tricky figuring out how to classify these people, and who knows how they self-ID along party lines? One thing’s for sure: less than 50% of the population is totally committed to either party, yet it’s the partisans who set the tone on our discourse and often fail to even acknowledge that moderates/cross-overs exist, painting everything as being the Left Vs. the Right.

    • Replies: @L Woods
  66. @Mr. Rational

    The devil is in the details with the compensation for savers, but I like it.

    The other option is debt default with remuneration for domestic holders. China et al are drug dealers who have been pumping the American addict with free money for decades, keeping a tab on that addict. Problem for the dealer is that the addict can still kick his ass, so if the addict decides to tell the dealer to go pound sand without paying a red cent he owes, well–I guess the dealer won’t give him any more free drugs.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Mr. Rational
  67. @Achmed E. Newman

    Agree. It’s funny how despite all the putative uniqueness of a Trump presidency, his reelection very well may come down to whether the bubble bursts before November of next year or after it.

  68. @Achmed E. Newman

    Inflation requires people who have no business being financial speculators trying their hands at financial speculation anyway because the alternative is to have their savings depreciate over time. It’s ludicrous.

  69. @Twinkie

    We have become the new barbarians.

  70. Feryl says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The late 60’s counter-culture eventually got perverted into Reaganism in the 80’s (ironically, Reaganism claimed to be a correction to the counter-culture…Ha! A true correction would’ve restored the America of FDR, Eisenhower, Truman, and Kennedy, yet Reaganism was predicated on destroying the New Deal, enhancing protections for woman/minorities/immigrants*, and not shutting down the gay bars).

    The New Right could well be perverted into something that it’s early adherents never expected or really wanted, as well. I personally think that the economic conservatism (social Darwinism) of the last 40 years has wrought so much damage that younger generations are bound to restore some type of economic Leftism. Just as the Counter-Culture could never imagine the rise of Reagan, back in 1968, I don’t think that some of today’s Counter-Culture can imagine what we might have in 12 years: perhaps a full dive into socialism/communism (not the lite-weight version practiced by FDR-Carter), although that would at least be congenial to social conservatism (e.g. Stalinism was more culturally conservative than New Dealism, and a lot more culturally conservative than Reaganism ever was in practice.) We should be grateful that ideologies devoted to material fairness also promote wholesome culture; Neo-liberal Reaganism was predicated on excessive wealth concentration and cultural decadence (from 1980-1990, the degree of profanity heard in film increased tenfold).

    *Immigrants were almost never included in the 60’s/70’s counter-culture narrative, because immigration levels were so low at the time. It was in the 1980’s that corporate greed began to push the “we’re a culture of immigrants” narrative, and the 80’s was the first decade in a long time to often emphasize the wholesome and well-meaning character of immigrants (which would reach nauseating proportions in the 90’s, when we completely de-regulated immigration).

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  71. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    With the usual disclaimer about not providing financial advice being made–there it is!–if I had student loan debt it would be the last thing I’d pay off. I’d even pay the mortgage down before I’d get working on the student loan debt. One way or the other, an amnesty is coming. The whole system is distgustingly corrupt from top to bottom, so I wouldn’t feel bad about it at all, either.

  72. @neutral

    Godwin’s Law doesn’t get invoked all that often here.

    I like the Sulla analogy better for obvious reasons and some possibly less obvious ones–like actually securing the future for another generation.

  73. @Feryl

    NGrams contradicts you.

    I don’t mean to be a punk about it, but the phrase “nation of immigrants” really does rise from the 60s through Reagan’s inauguration, flatlines during his presidency, and then resumes its steady rise. Start.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  74. Feryl says:
    @Mark G.

    If you break it down by economic class, marriage is still fairly common in the middle class. The big decline has been among working class whites. White working class females have been hit especially hard by societal changes in recent years. Recent declines in U.S. life expectancy have been concentrated in the middle aged members of this group. White working class females have developed a lot of addictive behaviors. They get addicted to drugs, to alcohol, to bad boys, to welfare.

    On nearly all measures imaginable, the top 20% or so of elites are doing well; the remaining 80% are all having a pretty rough go of it. Furthermore, the Silent Generation had a massive middle class who gained money and higher status over time due to good paying jobs, nice pensions, affordable living expenses, and good timing with the housing market. Most of our wealth is actually concentrated w/Silents and the earliest Boomers (this is why the biggest force behind neo-liberalism is actually the Silents, in practice; they have the money and influence to dominate things). Later Boomers had it tougher, though not that much tougher (and a lot of late Boomers inflicted a lot of terrible things on themselves WRT drugs, sex, divorce, and poor spending choices, living as if they were invincible yet ultimately paying a great price for their mistakes.)

    Gen X is the first generation to have lots of crap dumped on it, which they never asked for or deserved, beginning with the fact that they came of age when child abuse sky-rocketed in the mid 70’s. Mental illness, crime rates, drugs abuse, stagnant wages, off-shoring etc. all became major problems in the late 70’s and 80’s, before Gen X-ers even could get jobs, let alone have any influence on the trajectory of society. Gen X is the slowest generation to rise to political power in American history, validating their life-long belief that they’ve been “frozen out” by older generations.

    Millennials have gotten the same raw deal. There is effectively no longer a middle class in white America*, once you start focusing on people born after 1970. Marriage rates among young white adults collapsed in the late 90’s; Peter Turchin uses marriage rates and stability to gauge social health, and this collapse of marriage coincides with a New Gilded Age beginning around the year 2000.

    In terms of self-destruction, it’s pretty obvious that it’s heavily concentrated in people born in the 50’s and 60’s, who came of age in the 70’s and early 80’s when youth had no respect for adults, rules, or moderation.
    *compared to the 1940’s-1980’s

  75. Feryl says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Rhetoric isn’t material reality, though*; Not until Carter was in office did legal and illegal immigration began to soar (not coincidentally, Carter also was vocal about assisting business owners and trying to be the first president in ages to promote de-regulation, and he did indeed de-regulate the airline and trucking industries, to the horror of most Democrats).

    Reagan era culture became incredibly sentimental and accepting of immigrants; part of the atmosphere of the 1980’s was trying to create “peace” by diminishing tribalism, so Reagan era institutions adopted a PC attitude about race, feminism, and immigration. The late 60’s and 70’s were merely a dry-run for the candyass compromises (and betrayals) of the Reagan era, all of which intensified under GHW Bush and Clinton. The last time Americans were more interested in truth and getting things done was the early 70’s; the late 70’s-present have been a time of intellectual cowardice and sentimental non-sense. And wishful thinking. Hell, Carter even tried to tell Americans in the late 70’s to turn their thermostats down to conserve resources, but the Me Generation mocked him for it, ‘cuz, of course, it’s our American right to burn through precious resources without considering the implications.

    *Reagan is one of our worst presidents if you judge his statements against material reality. Suicide, dangerous dog ownership, media obscenity, family stability, and the like all got worse in the 1980’s. As people began to make judgements based on wealth/status, rather than good works, it fueled narcissism among the winners and despair among the losers, all trends which date to this period and have since gotten worse. The 1980’s only made some progress at vanquishing the nihilism of the 70’s, and some of that progress says more about people deciding to make better decisions on their own rather than the authorities doing anything meaningful (whereas in the 1920’s-1960’s, good works often were a “top-down” creation arising from wise leaders in government, business, and the church).

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  76. L Woods says:
    @Whitney

    Joiners happen to get all the nice things in life, as I can only assume you’ve discovered.

  77. L Woods says:
    @Feryl

    “Moderates” are morons, attention whores and moral cowards. They don’t deserve to be acknowledged.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  78. Feryl says:
    @L Woods

    Nice try, but Americans were much less ideologically extreme/split in the 1940’s-1970’s, when this country actually had a government and economy that were run with some degree of competence (we actually built things, our infrastructure wasn’t rotting away, our politicians didn’t get massive “speaking fees” after they left office, etc.).

    Extremists only create bitter discord, in which no compromises are made, nobody is ever happy that they’ve gotten “everything” they want, and nobody gets along and accomplishes anything.

    All the over-zealous purists need to go start their own country in Antarctica or on the Moon, or something, since they’ll never be satisfied that all the normies can meet their rigid standards of purity.

    Oh, and did it make someone a moron to not want to vote for Mittens Romney, who literally is a corporate raider? Or Juan McCain, who never met a warmonger or immigrant he didn’t like? Neo-liberal America is a truly wretched place not worth one ounce of affection or respect.

    • Replies: @L Woods
  79. Twinkie says:
    @Feryl

    dangerous dog ownership

    #firstworldproblems

    • Replies: @Feryl
  80. Twinkie says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    quality of the Chinese goods

    The quality of some Western mass luxury manufacturers actually went up when they outsourced to China. An example would be Tumi. And that’s because Tumi insisted on strict quality control and paid for it.

    Chinese are capable of making high quality goods, but generally don’t because the Western brands that source from them aren’t insisting on, and paying for, that quality. I remember when Taiwanese-made tools (especially knives) were considered junk. There are now knife collectors who say that Taiwanese-made (Taichung) Spyderco knives are better quality than U.S.-made (Colorado) ones and even the Japanese-makes (Seki-City). That’s debatable in my estimation, but the fact that such a claim is no longer laughable and is taken seriously says something.

    Soon you are going to think nostalgically for the good old days of cheap Chinese goods. Amazon is increasingly sourcing from India and the quality control is even worse than comparable goods from China.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  81. @Mr. Rational

    It is indeed Twain: “When you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”

  82. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    so if the addict decides to tell the dealer to go pound sand without paying a red cent he owes

    I have halfway been hoping that the House Dems would refuse to raise the debt ceiling and Trump would anounce that paying interest and redemption of bonds would cease.

  83. @iffen

    Robotic milking machines are now allowing dairy farmers to take evenings and weekends off.

    This is one more example of the way that automation makes immigration obsolete.

    • Replies: @iffen
  84. @Audacious Epigone

    The other option is debt default with remuneration for domestic holders.

    That’s pretty much what my inflation scheme would do, only “legally” rather than by explicit default.  However, a bond yielding 2% would lose most of its value overnight if inflation and interest rates hit 20%.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  85. Feryl says:
    @Twinkie

    Ostentatious ownership of large, dangerous, or impractical pets is a sign of a culture in decay. Dog maulings were much less frequent in the 1940’s-1970’s (The Great Compression) when most Americans looked out for each other (leaving aside the hippie weirdos, winos, and ghetto gangbangers, who admittedly became a big problem in the 70’s but these cultural changes weren’t broadly accepted until the mid-80’s). In the 80’s many Americans completely gave up on the idea of a pro-social “all for one, one for all” society. And I mean many people; ordinary folk in the 1930’s-70’s were sickened by the idea of selling each other out in order to make a quick(er) buck, of ruthlessly trying to beat the competition to be a “winner”.

  86. @Twinkie

    Soon you are going to think nostalgically for the good old days of cheap Chinese goods. Amazon is increasingly sourcing from India and the quality control is even worse than comparable goods from China.

    There’s a saying that you get you pay for. The corollary is you never get what you don’t pay for. On an international flight, I once spoke with an ethnic Indian who criss-crosses the Orient (which, in this case, I have defined as anything from the Near East to the Far East) sourcing various items for his stateside costume jewelry biz. I asked him why more of his goods weren’t imported from India. His answer? Inferior quality. That was a while back, though, so things might have improved since. Even back then, Indian wages were lower than Chinese wages, meaning that lower labor costs did not give Indian manufacturers a leg up. From 2013:

  87. iffen says:
    @Mr. Rational

    Robotic milking machines are now allowing dairy farmers to take evenings and weekends off.

    Cows are like most women, they don’t like to have strange men handling their teats. A small dairy operation hits peak efficiency when the same person “handles” the herd 24/7.

    This is one more example of the way that automation makes immigration obsolete.

    Whether immigration is obsolete depends upon one’s vantage point.

  88. Lot says:

    Because unreported and unlimited campaign spending is now allowed, we don’t know which party (broadly speaking) is raising more money now for sure.

    Big donors often like it being known they can drop $10 mil like no big deal on their friends. But not always. The Kochs don’t shy from attention completely, but did not like the intense focus on them 2015-2016.

    However, in Senate races the past few cycles business groups quietly and anonymously spent a ton the last few cycles on the GOP candidates.

    Dark money groups were also set up for Trump and Clinton, but unlike the Senate races, don’t look like they raised or spent very much.

  89. @Twinkie

    Also, most people don’t realize that, at one time, the province of Africa, around Carthage, was the second richest part of the Roman Empire after Egypt. There were massive latifundias in North Africa, owned by the senatorial class in Italy.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.

  90. Big Yikes says:

    That is… an absolutely amazing jump in the under 18s.

    What on earth accounts for this?

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