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Perceptions of Epstein’s death according to a recent Emerson poll (N = 1,458):

Murdered –34.3%
Suicide — 33.4%
Unsure — 32.3%

A plurality of Americans believe Jeffrey Epstein was murdered rather than committed suicide. The margin is small, but dissensions from the official story are still in their relatively seminal stages.

The only other putative American conspiracy theory I’m aware of where a larger percentage of the public does not believe the official story than does believe it is JFK’s assassination.

Relatedly, the sober, thoughtful and emphatically not hyperbolic Jonathan Haidt predicts a looming democratic catastrophe:

I am now very pessimistic. I think there is a very good chance American democracy will fail, that in the next 30 years we will have a catastrophic failure of our democracy.

We just don’t know what a democracy looks like when you drain all the trust out of the system.

Since its inception, the GSS has asked respondents whether “most people can be trusted” or “you can never be too careful in life”. The percentages, by decade, who say most people are trustworthy:

While diversity is our strength, it may also be our accentuating suspicion. Percentages who say most people can be trusted, by race and by national origin:

GSS variables used: TRUST(1), YEAR, RACECEN1(1)(2)(4-10), HISPANIC(1)(2-50), ETHNIC(30), BORN

 
• Category: Culture/Society, Ideology, Race/Ethnicity • Tags: GSS, Trust 
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  1. Joke: Suicide
    Broke: Murdered
    Woke: Escaped

    “Our democracy” can stay in power without trust in the system a lot longer than you can stay solvent without trust in your team

    If Whites had the level of operational trust of say, a Pakistani child prositution gang, “our democracy” would be toast.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Oblivionrecurs
  2. SafeNow says:

    I hear the preface “to be honest…” much more frequently than I did decades ago, and this tells the story. A quick Google search tells me that there is a literature on this, but I would not trust it.

  3. My take away more than sixty percent of those polled hold the matter suspect.

    Unsure in my view strongly suggest they don’t trust the reported story.

  4. BlackC says:

    “We just don’t know what a democracy looks like when you drain all the trust out of the system.”

    => Tribalism

    “In multiracial societies, you don’t vote in accordance with your economic interests and social interests, you vote in accordance with race and religion.”
    -Lee Kwan Yew, former Prime Minister of “multicultural” Singapore

    • Replies: @Arclight
  5. I do not agree with the practice of referring to something as an “official story.” It is not a neutral phrase. It immediately sets up a dichotomy in the mind that there is the official story and then there is something else, i.e. “the truth.” It also creates the impression that “narratives” are simply handed from on high, which is not a fair representation. Once you start talking like this, it’s no wonder that you start seeing “conspiracies” everywhere. It’s already baked into the cake. Conspiracy theories are an inevitable artifact of the style of ideation.

    But whether a majority of people believe or disbelieve in something has no bearing on the facts of the matter. Beliefs are fickle and self-serving, instrumental and social things. They are rarely sincere.

    There isn’t really a shred of evidence that Epstein was murdered, and everything we do know about the case is consistent with the theory that he killed himself in an incompetently managed prison.

  6. @Intelligent Dasein

    “everything we do know about the case “….. comes from the news media. That pretty well sinks your assertion that ” “narratives” are simply handed from on high, which is not a fair representation.”

    The narratives are obviously handed to us from “on high”, if that’s how you describe the cohort of elite controllers who apprently inject the narratives into TV news outlets. The narrative doesn’t vary by a jot or a tittle from one TV news outlet to the next. In the case of the 911 narrative, all the TV news channels were even using the same footage and their announcers were reading the exact same words from the same script, in simultaneous live broadcasts..

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  7. @Intelligent Dasein

    I do not agree with the practice of referring to something as an “official story.” It is not a neutral phrase.

    So, what do you want to call the “facts” that are spoon-fed to us by officials in whose best interests lie in seeing things quickly and relatively put to rest?

  8. The only other putative American conspiracy theory I’m aware of where a larger percentage of the public does not believe the official story than does believe it is JFK’s assassination.

    My head says, “Sure, go for the magic bullet theory” and all the disbelief it forces one to suspend. Being a romantic, my heart tells me to believe that JFK and MM faked their deaths and lived out their days in blissful carnal pleasure on some remote tropical isle.

  9. notanon says:

    given the stakes and the media narrative i’d say the “unsure” segment are more significant than they would be in other circumstances.

    by stakes i mean being unsure in this case means seriously considering the possibility that we’re ruled by a criminal banking mafia who control both sides of politics through bribery, blackmail and murder.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  10. Arclight says:
    @BlackC

    Exactly – and what exactly does the left think is going to happen when the largest demographic group finds itself overwhelmed politically by a coalition of minorities? This is the left’s goal, but it assumes their opponents will just quietly lie down and be ruled over/looted by the rest of society, and I don’t think that is going to be the actual outcome.

  11. notanon says:

    Haidt is clearly correct – the only real question is what form will the “failure of our democracy” take.

    the globalist faction (both US and EU versions) want totalitarian control so they can continue to impoverish their citizens without consequences and if they win we’ll get either “1984” (state dictatorship) or “Blade Runner” (corporate dictatorship).

    a 3rd option would be nice.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  12. ““In multiracial societies, you don’t vote in accordance with your economic interests and social interests, you vote in accordance with race and religion.”

    And he would be wrong as is clear people have crossed the color line repeatedly. And nothing makes that case more clearly than blacks who voted repeatedly for white candidates despite black candidates being in the race.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @jim jones
  13. vok3 says:

    EliteComm – occasional exceptions don’t disprove the rule. Blacks vote Democrat in a 90% monolithic bloc on a national basis. In local/regional elections they’re absolutely dependable when it comes to voting for the candidate of their race; that’s how you get Detroit and Baltimore.

  14. @Intelligent Dasein

    I do not agree with the practice of referring to something as an “official story.” It is not a neutral phrase. It immediately sets up a dichotomy in the mind that there is the official story and then there is something else, i.e. “the truth.” It also creates the impression that “narratives” are simply handed from on high, which is not a fair representation.

    Narrative are simply handed from on high–here is an excellent example:

    https://blog.ap.org/announcements/illegal-immigrant-no-more

    The “official story” is the narrative presented by the New York Times and the Associated Press.

    The “official story” is the narrative presented by the Warren Commission or the 911 Commission or any other “official” investigative body.

    Life is simple when you know the rules.

  15. “occasional exceptions don’t disprove the rule. Blacks vote Democrat in a 90% monolithic bloc on a national basis. ”

    Nice try.

    The issue is whether they vote strictly according to biological trait. Hate to break the news to you, but being a democrat has no innate link to blackness. Blacks vote democratic in larger numbers for several reasons:

    1. they believe their advance in the society has come as the result of democratic leadership

    2. the republican party abandoned them to the ills of color discrimination throughout the country less then ten years after the end of slavery

    3. democrats no longer ignore the evidence that clearly the country singled out blacks for denying them access to all that comes with citizenship — in other words, based on the evidence they stopped telling blacks that what they were experiencing was just their imagination

    4. republicans have relied on the identity politics of color and will at the end of the day use that to win votes.

    5. despite not having any of the same history — white women and homosexuals have leveraged the b;lack experience to their own and quite astutely managed to forge a bond with blacks — that despite the lie of a corresponding history.

    There is no rule that being democrat is akin to being black. And it is incorrect to suggest as much.

    To the original point — blacks disprove the suggestion thereby denying it as a rule that biology is the factor in voting above all others. As noted in both parties, the black population does not vote exclusively for blacks that run for office.

    Furthermore the black population that votes democratic has a much richer history and depth of commitment to scripture than the democrats of today — yet they still vote democratic.

    They don’t represent exceptions, they break the rule on both counts — biology and religious belief.

    No. The way you get Detroit and Baltimore has nothing to do with voting and everything to do with the power dynamics of economic forces based on color games.

  16. “In local/regional elections they’re absolutely dependable when it comes to voting for the candidate of their race; that’s how you get Detroit and Baltimore.”

    The black population of Detroit is roughly 79% according to you blacks vote black.

    The mayor of Detroit is:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Duggan

    http://dugganfordetroit.com/

    The vote count:
    https://detroitmi.gov/document/august-6-2013-primary-election-mayor

    Now I know there is a lot of debate among people on this site about who is white and who is not. But the Mayor of Detroit sure looks white to me.

    • Replies: @Tykebomb
  17. Tykebomb says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Literal second sentence, “When first elected in 2013 he received national attention, in part for being the first white mayor of the majority-black city since Roman Gribbs in the early 1970s, when Detroit’s population still had a white majority.”

  18. Mitleser says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    It does not make it clear.

    Voting in accordance with race and religion does mean that they will vote for the candidate of blacks, someone who does not have to be black.

    For instance, Biden is not black, but being the sidekick of the first black POTUS he is a candidate of blacks.

  19. “Literal second sentence, “When first elected in 2013 he received national attention, in part for being the first white mayor of the majority-black city since Roman Gribbs in the early 1970s, when Detroit’s population still had a white majority.”

    And that tells us that blacks cross the color line and have historically done so locally and nationally. Even when they comprise the majority.

    And the second sentence would make that color line voting is a white tradition. If not for the fact that whites of similar religious belief inhabited both parties they would prove the rule — which is no rule at all for the black population. And what the election of mayor Duggens tells us is that unlike whites, when given choices based on the rhetoric blacks will choose based not on color but content —-

    This is a hole that only gets deeper as blacks on both the national and local level have voted for candidates who were not black despite their presence in the race. It strongly suggests that it was not white skin that prevented previous whites from getting elected but the content of their campaigns.

    But you are certainly welcome to beat your fists against the evidence and what it means if makes you feel better.

    —————————–

    “Voting in accordance with race and religion does mean that they will vote for the candidate of blacks, someone who does not have to be black.:

    This rhetorical device may work among some. But redefining the issue to include everything including the kitchen sink to escape the failure of the contend — simply will not work.

    The quotation is a simple axiom. This then that. And in the case of blacks they have demonstrated the matter to be false. The refernced quotation is to biology and religion. Now I am unaware of exactly what Sen Biden believes and advocates. But obviously it is not that he is black, nor is he. Neither has he made any appeals regarding a distinct religious conviction – to my lnowledge.

    But if you have to twist the meaning of the quotation to void its meaning to make your case, it’s a safe bet you clearly know that the quotation as presented – prima facie – is not supported by the voting habits of blacks. And what destroys the supposed rule is not the years in which the majority population reflected a black mayor, but rather despite having a majority they elected someone who did not.

    You might want to call the fire department — you’ll need a crane to even begin to get out of the canyon you have created for yourselves.

    Scratch that, you’ll need more than one.

    —————————-

    And just to cut you off, my contention is not that blacks do vote based on skin color. But that they do do so as a rule as indicated by the quotation. They don’t do so when they are the majority and they don’t do so when they are a minority. If anything in this regard they are far more discriminating than the white population. “Forest for the trees”, in this case forest for the tree.

    —————————

    More discriminating —-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Baltimore_mayoral_election

    So much for black male mysoginy

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Baltimore_mayoral_election

    another white guy

  20. This candidate

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Baltimore_mayoral_election

    beat this candidate

    and this candidate

    https://www.ourcampaigns.com/CandidateDetail.html?CandidateID=17342

    I think you’ll need more than the fire department cranes.

  21. utu says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    An idiot with great desire to be useful or rather IYI.

  22. Allow me to subject myself to ridicule by not only agreeing with Mr, Haidt, but offering a significant theory as to what will be the kicker.

    Based on what I have read, we are heading into a significant cooling period that will bottom out sometime in the 2030’s.

    Without going into a long post citing all of the literature – it’s easily available to anyone with cursory knowledge of how a search engine works – let me list a few consequences of such a (non-man made) climate event:

    Significantly reduced crop yields due to shorter growing periods, combined with…

    More extreme weather events like tornadoes, hurricanes, torrential rains/flooding, and blizzards, which will lead too…

    An irresistible strain upon urban infrastructure that is already alarmingly behind in modern upgrades, followed by…

    Urban civil unrest and panic on a scale not yet seen in our lifetimes as millions of urbanites incapable of actually facilitating their own survival begin to loot and pillage resources.

    Local governments begin to collapse as they fail to manage lack of food, loss of utilities and communication, and rioting.

    Local elites and officials abandon their responsibilities to the public and look to their own survival.

    Marshall law is likely declared federally, as the nation’s military is turned upon its country in a desperate attempt to reel in the chaos.

    From there it is unlikely anything resembling democracy returns. A totalitarian police state ensues and difficult to see where we go beyond that.

  23. @Mitleser

    “For instance, Biden is not black, but being the sidekick of the first black POTUS he is a candidate of blacks.”

    Maybe that case could be made after the primary if Biden is the candidate in the presidential election, but not right now.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  24. ““For instance, Biden is not black, but being the sidekick of the first black POTUS he is a candidate of blacks.”

    No manner of slip and slide rhetoric is going to save the argument.

    He is not black and supporting him based on association is choice based not on blackness, but the issues that the said previous supported. Even if the contend is accurate and I don’t think it is, it remains a matter of content association, not skin color. According to you, Sen Biden would be supportive of the issues that blacks care about, at least democratic blacks because he supported the last exec. who one assumes attends to black concerns (which was true in only one area). That’s not a biological calculation that’s cognitive. We’ll vote for hum based on what he think he represents on issues, despite the fact that he is white.

    I have for years advocated that supposed conservatives rethink how they think about blacks but they are forever wedded to the inane post scripts of the past because they went relatively unchallenged. They may very well work as a pander to whites based on whiteness —

    But that does not make the argument any less accurate. Your Singaporean quoted icon is wrong.

    And it’s wrong even if Sen Biden is the nominee.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  25. @Intelligent Dasein

    I have a friend who is a neurosurgeon. I asked him what percentage of doctors he thought believed Epstein had committed suicide. His answer: 0.00001%. I asked him what percentage would be likely to say or do anything about it and his answer was that only very few doctors would even speak up about it.

    We have plenty of evidence Epstein did not commit suicide. Most doctors know it is damn well impossible in a cell like Epstein was housed in.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
  26. Bill says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Conspiracy theories are an inevitable artifact of the style of ideation.

    No, conspiracy theories are an inevitable artifact of being even slightly clueful about human behavior. Humans choose up sides and conspire as consistently as humans breathe.

    There isn’t really a shred of evidence that Epstein was murdered

    Rubbish. Everyone sane immediately predicted that he would be murdered when he was arrested, and for good reason. Then he died under extremely suspicious circumstances. If you think that there is more than a fifty percent chance that he committed suicide, then your Bayes Rule is broken.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  27. Bill says:

    We just don’t know what a democracy looks like when you drain all the trust out of the system.

    Is India a real place, or did I dream it?

  28. Noobaid says:

    Never forget, polling is propaganda. With its trust question, the GSS carries out CIA’s mission to make skepticism a pathological personality trait instead of a life skill informed by Bayesian inference. Can you trust any random Joe Blow you come across? Probably, in quotidian matters, until proven otherwise. Can you trust CIA, a criminal enterprise with impunity in municipal law? No. Of course not. That’s a simple matter of inductive reasoning. CIA has always preyed on its subject population. You can tell they’re lying cause their lips are moving. CIA killed or disappeared avowed employee Jeffrey Epstein to conceal the absolute historical continuity of their VIP kompromat function. Everyone who’s not retarded knows that much.

  29. @Intelligent Dasein

    No material change in his condition (ie still looking at life in prison) and he’s taken off suicide watch after a week? Highest profile prisoner in four decades and the system is too incompetent to even keep an eye on him? Two cameras randomly malfunctioning exactly when he was dying? Extremely convenient for the establishment that he is dead? Russia hoax goes on and on over nothing for years and this case is closed in a matter of hours?

    • Replies: @Wade
    , @Intelligent Dasein
  30. @notanon

    The third option could’ve been something closer to Brave New World, but the demographics just aren’t going to support that now.

    • Replies: @notanon
  31. @Twodees Partain

    Based on polling that seems to be the case, though. We’ll see the rubber meeting the road in South Carolina (where Biden is currently the heavy favorite).

  32. @EliteCommInc.

    The percentages of blacks who will vote for Biden over Warren and who could also articulate the differences between Biden and Warren on any given policy will be small.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  33. notanon says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    made me think – one of the interesting aspects of the “Brave New World” option is the elite have engineered the slaves to be happy in their slavery whereas in the “Big Brother” and “Bladerunner” versions they don’t care.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  34. @Audacious Epigone

    “For instance, Biden is not black, but being the sidekick of the first black POTUS he is a candidate of blacks.”

    This is like having a conversation with liberals. If the argument fails, change the definitions to make it work.

    No sale.

    __________________________________________

    I wouldn’t waste your time speculating about what blacks can and cannot do to defend an argument that has collapsed.

    Most most people who could are articulate why in specifics we like this candidate are those of us who engage in these discussions and that means in general on the whole, the number your describe may be smaller among Republicans and conservatives than among democrats in general —

    but that total number is probably small across the board white or black.

    The point is that among cross over votes based on issues, blacks have a history of being more discriminating. And m y side of the aisle should have capitalized on that more than 100 years ago instead of grabbing the low hanging fruit of color politics. It has not come back to haunt us yet. But it very well may.

    The two examples provided to make the case on examination fail and they fail miserably. The stereotypical argument about color and voting in those two cities utterly rebuts the arguments of those who sought to advance them as evidence to the quotation. And there’s no rescuing the position or those that made it.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  35. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Mitleser

    Voting in accordance with race and religion does mean that they will vote for the candidate of blacks, someone who does not have to be black.

    For instance, Biden is not black, but being the sidekick of the first black POTUS he is a candidate of blacks.

    So blacks always vote for black candidates, except when they vote for white candidates. But those white candidates are really black, even though they aren’t.

    That seems straightforward. Thanks for clearing that up.

    • LOL: Twinkie
  36. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Bill

    Everyone sane immediately predicted that he would be murdered when he was arrested, and for good reason.

    Any sane person would have expected him to commit suicide. The guy is in his sixties and knew he’d be facing about 400 years in prison. He knew that any powerful people who might at one time have protected him were certainly not going to do so now. The only option left to him was suicide. He was clearly a fairly smart guy, capable of waiting for the right opportunity to do so. If you’re very very motivated to kill yourself you’ll find a way.

    The people who thought he’d be murdered were people who are accustomed to see conspiracy theories in everything. The murder hypothesis requires an elaborate conspiracy, so naturally that’s the explanation that will appeal to people who think in conspiracy theory terms. And to people who do think in conspiracy theory terms the fact that there was no evidence for murder proves it must have been murder.

  37. 216 says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    There is considerable circumstantual evidence that Epstein was involved with the Mossad, in the same way that Ghislane Maxwell’s father, Robert Maxwell, was.

    And it is normally argued that the death of R. Maxwell was at the hands of the Mossad, despite similar motivations for a troubled bankrupt businessman to commit “suicide”.

    IMO, your letting your secularism and personal dislike of conspiracy theorists get in the way of the far too many number of “coincidences”.

    Not to mention the sudden re-emergence of G. Maxwell, almost as if they were rubbing it in.

    A serious inquiry starts with a subpeona to a certain Les Wexner of Columbus, OH.

  38. jim jones says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    A good example of tribalism is the election of Sadiq Khan as Mayor of London.

  39. Thomm says:
    @Mitleser

    For instance, Biden is not black, but being the sidekick of the first black POTUS he is a candidate of blacks.

    False. The fact that Obama is backing Harris and not Biden speaks volumes.

    Plus, remember that at the voting booth, blacks are Democrats first and blacks second.

    In 2006, there were three elections where a black Republican was running against a white Democrat (OH Gov, PA Gov, and MD Senator). In all three cases, the black guy still got just 20-25% of the black vote. Even the RINO black running for MD Senate (Michael Steele) could not get the black vote.

    Again, blacks are Democrats first and blacks second. Nothing is more rock-solid in America than the black vote for Democrats.

  40. notanon says:
    @dfordoom

    Any sane person would have expected him to commit suicide. The guy is in his sixties and knew he’d be facing about 400 years in prison.

    he had direct personal experience from the 2008 trial of how corrupt the legal system can be for the right person.

  41. El Dato says:
    @Not My Economy

    “Escape” is expensive.

    Why spend more than you need?

  42. “A good example of tribalism is the election of Sadiq Khan as Mayor of London.”

    You do realize that this is an argument lost before it began. I might be inclined to dig through the London elections. But I think the record is pretty clear on this. I don’t think there’s any serious hurdles for Pres Trump except himself. But I am certain, that my side of the aisle will operate in fear and engage in low hanging fruit fear mongering.

    Thinned skinned and neck deep as we are in identity politics. I should stop wondering how and why my party has lost the agricultural fields of education, wound up, supporting the complete export of US employment, embrace immigration, wound advocating for numerous wars of little value to the US, policies making it a crime to criticize other countries, support same sex marriage (or have no gumption or contentions of value to stand up to the matter), lousy immigration policy, etc., etc. But we are experts on playing the color card to win elections and yet we are still losing the country.

    And have all but abandoned any real rhetoric at cultivating a citizenship that rejects the murder of children.

    But we can certainly whine about identity politics as we use that very card to ensure wins. Well, low hanging fruit still tastes good.

    I support Pres. Trump, but am keenly aware that he is not a conservative. You’ll have to excuse my constant whining about integrity and consistency–

    ——————-

    Correction: And just to cut you off, my contention is not that blacks do not vote based on skin color. But that they do not do so as a rule as indicated by the quotation. They don’t do so when they are the majority and they don’t do so when they are a minority. If anything in this regard they are far more discriminating than the white population. “Forest for the trees”, in this case forest for the tree.

  43. “Any sane person would have expected him to commit suicide. The guy is in his sixties and knew he’d be facing about 400 years in prison.”

    Actually given the political and legal leverage — I don’t think prison was his first concern. Nor do I think he his first, or even his second thoughts were suicide. This is one case of suicide that is deeply dubious. And they may thought that preparing a first attempt was adequate prep, but in fact, causes even skeptics to cast a doubtful eye on the story.

  44. Anonymous[152] • Disclaimer says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    There isn’t really a shred of evidence that Epstein was murdered, and everything we do know about the case is consistent with the theory that he killed himself in an incompetently managed prison.

    “To be consistent with” is not necessarily in balance with “likelihood of being true”.

    Unrelated P.S.

    I’m starting to look out for “everybody knows” throwaway entries paragraphs one finds in the meedja. In a rather tiring article about a Huawei media blunder entitled “We’re great, boasts Huawei in founder’s Little Red Book – but isn’t that a video game screenshot?” (of interest mainly to obsessive-compulsive gamers waiting to leave the office on Friday afternoons), we find the author Gareth Cornfield injecting an “everybody knows”: The Russian foreign affairs ministry made a similar blunder to Huawei a couple of years ago when it tried to use a video game screenshot as “proof” that America backed Islamic State terrorists in the Middle East, something as obviously bonkers as it sounds.. Yep. Obviously bonkers. Wait, where did that come from?

  45. El Dato says:
    @dfordoom

    Any sane person would have expected him to commit suicide.

    Really?

    He could have become a bestselling author instead.

    The guy is in his sixties and knew he’d be facing about 400 years in prison.

    Because if you are sixty you are practically dead and might as well get it over with.

    Still in college, are you?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  46. Nodwink says:

    I think there is something to the Princess Diana conspiracy theory. I remember my mother telling me reports she heard on the radio at the time that claimed that Diana was sitting on the side of the road, talking to eyewitnesses after the accident.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  47. @dfordoom

    “Any sane person would have expected him to commit suicide. ”

    Based on the rest of your comment, you’re not in position to recruit the sane to your side.

    As stated in the blog post, 34% of people polled believe he was murdered, and another 32% aren’t even sure about it. You’re suggesting two thirds of the country are crazy? I think you may need to reevaluate.

    Your attempt to understand his state of mind doesn’t hold up. Based on what I’ve read, I don’t even think the G had much of a case against him. The victims who were willing to speak up, at least to that point, fail the credibility test after a cursory look into their pasts, and I say that as someone who mostly believes them!

    I think it’s a good possibility Epstein truly believed he could beat the case even without dropping names. But the people who go by those names weren’t willing to take the chance.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  48. @dfordoom

    “the fact that there was no evidence for murder ”

    I haven’t seen any such fact demonstrated anywhere. Further, I’d say that I haven’t read anything credible that demonstrates any proof whatsoever of either murder or suicide. What information has been released is so short of convincing detail that no “conspiracy theory” worthy of the name can be constructed at all.

  49. We just don’t know what a democracy looks like when you drain all the trust out of the system.

    Once again, please, for the laughs.

    You want to see what trust looks like? Look at the pile of IOU’s issued these last 38 years, whose interest-rate yields recently hit a new all time low (for the 30-year T-bond.)

    That’s TRUST.

    Look at people sitting in restaurants, secure in their trust that no one is spitting in their food, or that Jorge-the-illegal-cook washes his hands after he hits the restroom, and that he doesn’t carry Salmonella picked up from his cousin who just joined him from Bumfukistan-south-of-the-border.

    Social trust is quite literally at all time highs today, and it has pinned the needle on the meter for decades while asset prices skyrocketed even as migrants flooded American stores and manufactured goods became a near-exclusive province of China. Not to worry, the experts we trust explicitly tell us we can put it all on the National MasterCard FOREVER.

    CogDis everywhere I look. People don’t trust the new neighbor or the unfamiliar cops, but they remain 100% dependent on them (neighbors and cops), a fact we know because said people have created no means of personally managing problems that require the input from neighbors or cops.

    Half this country can’t stand the other half (and these divisions exist within extended families, it’s not some geographic red/blue BS) yet the embrace of where this leads is still nonexistent.

    There’s no real cohesion in the USA, only trust-in-the-experts, who somehow will keep the sugarplums dancing in everyone’s heads like a daily Santa Claus. We’re one tiny reduction in that social trust away from the wheel-that-is-the-USA flying apart in every direction.

    • Replies: @Bill
  50. dfordoom says: • Website
    @El Dato

    The guy is in his sixties and knew he’d be facing about 400 years in prison.

    Because if you are sixty you are practically dead and might as well get it over with.

    My point was that given that he was sixty-six and was certainly facing a very long prison term then he could expect that he would die in prison. Not an enticing prospect.

    • Replies: @Astonished
  51. Anyone who evinces trust in the “official narrative” on anything is too naive to laugh at.

    We have a nation run by con artists (in industry, government, media, etc.) and we’re told that to distrust what they say is a marker of irrationality.

    There aren’t enough faces and hands to adequately to facepalm.

  52. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Nodwink

    I think there is something to the Princess Diana conspiracy theory. I remember my mother telling me reports she heard on the radio at the time that claimed that Diana was sitting on the side of the road, talking to eyewitnesses after the accident.

    Are you sure she wasn’t talking to Elvis?

  53. @dfordoom

    My point was that given that he was sixty-six and was certainly facing a very long prison term then he could expect that he would die in prison. Not an enticing prospect.

    This guy had slipped the “noose” before. If anything, I’d imagine that would embolden him to think he had a solid chance to sidestep the doom you posit.

    As AE noted above, a stack of coincidences argues for common-sense assumption that the Official Narrative is BS. Arguing against this is pure sophistry.

  54. dfordoom says: • Website
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    As stated in the blog post, 34% of people polled believe he was murdered, and another 32% aren’t even sure about it. You’re suggesting two thirds of the country are crazy?

    Have you looked at our society recently? Totally insane beliefs are taken for granted. This is a society in which the idea that a man can magically change into a woman just by putting on a frock is mainstream and respectable. I have no problems believing that 34% of the population would believe absolutely anything at this point.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    , @anon
  55. Wade says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Good comment. I would just add how peculiar it was that the MSM immediately slammed everyone’s concerns surrounding the facts of his death as “Conspiracy Theories” with zero interest in investigative journalism. It isn’t only the government’s performance that we now have to wonder is incompetent or corrupt. The MSM too seems to be in lock-step with them on this case.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  56. @dfordoom

    ” I have no problems believing that 34% of the population would believe absolutely anything at this point.”

    Like the idea that Epstein committed suicide, for example? There are likely thousands of inmates facing life in prison at any given moment, why aren’t suicide rates/attempts off the charts for that demographic?

    Anyway, aside from cutting both ways, your rhetorical framing is weak to begin with. As the blog post also states, the only other conspiracy more believed than not is the JFK assassination.

    Comparatively, less than 25% of people polled believe in an alternative version of events re: 9/11, and those alternative versions can be broken down even further.

  57. Bill says:
    @Astonished

    There’s no real cohesion in the USA, only trust-in-the-experts, who somehow will keep the sugarplums dancing in everyone’s heads like a daily Santa Claus.

    It’s interesting to think about. When the next big economic blow falls, then what? Does the freakshow react by doubling down yet again, leading to some kind of civil rupture? Does the freakshow react by saying “oh, I guess silly season is over now” and returning to some kind of sanity?

  58. “Put none but Americans on guard tonight.” — General George Washington

    “The bank, Mr. Van Buren, is trying to kill me — but I will kill it”. — President Andrew Jackson

    “If you want somebody you can trust, trust yourself.” Bob Dylan and a lot of other people down through the ages.

    “Trump betrayed our trust by not completely halting mass legal immigration.” A lot of voters

    “Trump betrayed our trust by not stopping mass illegal immigration.” A lot of voters

    “Trump betrayed our trust by putting the interests of Israel ahead of the interests of the USA.” A lot of voters

    “Trump betrayed our trust by not putting a 200 percent PROHIBITIVE TARIFF on all goods and services coming from the Chinese Communist Party and transnational corporations that use Chinese cheap labor to maximize profits.” A lot of voters

  59. @Bill

    It’s interesting to think about. When the next big economic blow falls, then what? Does the freakshow react by doubling down yet again, leading to some kind of civil rupture? Does the freakshow react by saying “oh, I guess silly season is over now” and returning to some kind of sanity?

    GDP growth without the close to trillion dollars in federal government yearly deficit spending would be close to zero.

    The total federal government debt is over 22 trillion dollars.

    The unfunded liabilities for all levels of government — municipal, county, state, federal — is 200 trillion dollars or more.

    Corporate debt is 10 trillion dollars or more.

    Those snot-nosed punk kids and their student loan debt are another 1.5 trillion dollars.

    I’d make those snot-nosed punk kids happy by declaring a DEBT JUBILEE on all student loan debt. I’d also return all cash spent to repay all student loans from the last 35 years by refunding all the money paid out to repay the student loans plus 6 percent a year in lost opportunity costs for the debtors.

    I would also use the Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion(PCLP) to give each American citizen with all four grandparents born in the USA before 1924 ten thousand dollars a month. I would order the US Treasury to order the Federal Reserve Bank to conjure the Pewitt Conjured Loot Portion out of thin air in exactly the same manner that the Federal Reserve Bank electronically credits banks now.

    I would hike the corporate tax rate to 91 percent from 21 percent and I would tax the the top 5 percent so hard you would hear their pips start squeaking.

    I would also immediately raise the federal funds rate to 20 percent like it was in 1981 to implode the asset bubbles in stocks, bonds and real estate.

    The only thing holding the United States of America together is monetary extremism — asset purchases(quantitative easing), a bloated balance sheet, zero or low interest rates…etc — from the privately-controlled Federal Reserve Bank.

    IMPLODE THE ASSET BUBBLES NOW!

    RESTORE SOVEREIGNTY TO THE USA NOW!

    ANDREW JACKSON UNDERSTOOD CENTRAL BANKING!

    • Replies: @Astonished
  60. @Bill

    What happens when hundreds of millions of people, dependent on long, fragile supply lines and a division-of-labor economy that spans the globe, suddenly discover that what they thought was permanent…isn’t?

    There are no historical precedents for the breakdown of a 38-year (and counting) credit bubble under conditions where debt-is-money (and a veritable galaxy of debt was issued while collective trust maintained yields at absurd lows.)

    We truly sail uncharted waters and, as pirates swarm aboard our vessel, the two factions among the crew appear ready to go “Full Mutiny” against each other.

    I remain of the opinion that most of what people today think is “wealth” will burn to ash right before our eyes, kind of like having wheel-barrow fulls of cash in one’s closet evaporating during the overnight. But then, I’ve been wrong about this for decades, so I no longer really care.

    History is impulsive, and operates at a subconscious herding level of cognition. I do not think the Clowns at the head of this circus parade actually control the parade route. They just jump in front of the band, wherever the band marches, and the clowns wave their baton and act like they’re “in charge.” I think we’ve endured the largest, longest period of mass herding insanity on record, but I don’t think it means Reality’s laws were repealed, only that we’ve ignored them for so long that many among us think so.

    Waking up to the hangover is going to hurt.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  61. @Charles Pewitt

    I don’t have the answers, maybe you do.

    I am relatively sure, however, that when the asset bubble(s) are ended, the pain will be astonishing and all but inescapable. Most of what people today count as “wealth” is actually just a cash flow promised at a future time, AKA a debt.

    This is what happens when you divorce your “money” from anything tangible, the con artists come out of the woodwork and your economic system becomes one vast game of mutual robbery and con gaming.

    We got here because people want(ed) something for nothing. This hasn’t changed (and probably can’t, not without wiping out a whole lot of parasites and freeloaders, which is an ugly prospect.)

    Hardship. It makes people better. Ease makes us all soft. The problem is that hardship is things like your child dying of disease or malnutrition, or you (or me) not making Nature’s cut for one reason or another. It’s all well and good to talk about tough times making us better, but the way that happens is by KILLING OFF THE WEAK, and who among us is so confident in ourselves, our genes, our kids, etc., that we’d invite that kind of harsh scrutiny from implacable Nature?

    Not me, anyway.

    But what will be, will be. Life’s not a Chinese Menu.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
  62. I got a central banker conspiracy theory that is right out there in the open of the Alps.

    Some guy on the internet says that the Swiss National Bank owns a hundred billion dollars worth of US stocks.

    Did the Swiss National Bank conjure the 100 billion dollars out of thin air to purchase the 100 billion dollars of US stocks?

    Don’t get me started on the conspiracy theory of the European Central Bank buying corporate bonds!

    The Federal Reserve Bank is doing more extreme monetary extremist stuff than the SNB or the ECB.

    IMPLODE ALL ASSET BUBBLES NOW!

  63. @Not My Economy

    Isn’t polling showing young Americans are increasingly supportive of authoritarianism, might be westerners in general

    • Replies: @Astonished
  64. Why are so many people evil? Why are so many people gullible? Pogo had the answer. “We have met the enemy and he is us.” Political ideologies are castles in the sky. Human nature is the insurmountable barrier to their implementation.

    That said, the Anarchists have the best of it. Lend your political energies to decentralization of power.

    • Replies: @Astonished
  65. @Oblivionrecurs

    The USA is a lot like Germany after WW1.

    Both had/have a weak government (USA can’t even police its own border, and US politicians basically purchase their re-election by borrowing money and showering it on their campaign contributors.)

    The main populace of both exist under abuse (Germans under the punishing Treaty of Versailles, Americans under the leftists’ replacement migration and rendering whites, particularly heterosexual white men, less-equal-before-the-law on numerous fronts.)

    Both had/have unsustainable economic systems (Wiemar Germany conducted an open banknote inflation, while we in the USA have the largest credit bubble and credit-inflation in monetary history, it just mostly appears to flow to asset prices.)

    When this very long period of faux prosperity ends (because the herd wakes up and realizes that the IOU’s of future cash flows will not come to them), America will do exactly what Germans did, promote a tyrant to power.

    It ain’t going to be fun or pretty for anyone.

    • Replies: @Oblivionrecurs
  66. @WorkingClass

    The center is weakening rapidly.
    There is no glue holding large nation-states together.
    A little nudge (like rising interest rates and a sudden inability to continue to grow credit/debt) will topple people’s willingness to listen to the center.

    Decentralization is coming. A country the size of the USA is ungovernable.

    But divorce seems unlikely to be civil. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

  67. Tbh conflict now would be preferable. Looking at voter registration and turnout data from the South, the entire region will be Black Democratic in a generation, or a hybrid of Black/Latino. Texas, Mississippi, Georgia et cetera each state is a pessimistic projection unless young whites take the issue seriously and vote (and they won’t until they’re married and marriage among whites is fading unless you’re college educated)

    What is more likely to happen is white flight.

    And if climate change impact on the South are even remotely as bad as the out-dated IPCC models suggest, the white flight from the South will rival if not beat out the black flight from the South

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  68. @Astonished

    Kinda wish Trump was that tyrant, instead of the 2020s being a complete useless filler decade of the SJWs

  69. Mark G. says:
    @Astonished

    When the asset bubbles end more money will be spent on basics like food, clothing and shelter. We won’t be spending large sums of money to send kids to college to major in worthless subjects they can’t get a job with, to keep 85 year olds alive another six months, to become involved in wars on the other side of the planet, to give inner city blacks welfare money so they can loaf and do drugs and listen to rap music all day. You can tell Trump is worried the bubbles will pop before the next election and he will go down in history as Herbert Hoover the second. His pressuring of Powell to lower Fed rates is indicative of that. If he does succeed, he will just end up like Nixon pressuring Burns in 1972.We will have another round of “stagflation” like back then but it will be much worse than the seventies. We may end up with a Weimar Germany, Zimbabwe or Venezuela style hyperinflation this time around.

  70. @Astonished

    America will probably be in civil war in our lifetimes.

    Rapidly growing body of research examines whether human conflict can be affected by climatic changes. Drawing from archaeology, criminology, economics, geography, history, political science, and psychology, we assemble and analyze the 60 most rigorous quantitative studies and document, for the first time, a striking convergence of results. We find strong causal evidence linking climatic events to human conflict across a range of spatial and temporal scales and across all major regions of the world. The magnitude of climate’s influence is substantial: for each one standard deviation (1σ) change in climate toward warmer temperatures or more extreme rainfall, median estimates indicate that the frequency of interpersonal violence rises 4% and the frequency of intergroup conflict rises 14%. Because locations throughout the inhabited world are expected to warm 2σ to 4σ by 2050, amplified rates of human conflict could represent a large and critical impact of anthropogenic climate change.

    After 2025 water supply conflicts are projected in Houston, Denver, Salt Lake City, and all of Arizona and Nevada.

    Arizona especially is fucked

    Even since 1970 the average annual temperature has increased 1F per decade in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas.

    In the 1950s Arizona the number of hours temperature hit and sustained 100F in Summer Months was 2 hours, its now 5 hours. After this mid-century Arizona can be expecting 120 days of 100 degree Fahrenheit temperatures sustained for 6 to 8 hours per day.

    Median water runoff from 2040-2060 is expected to decrease the most in Arizona and Southern Nevada at -40% from 1960 baseline. California to New Mexico/Colorado is -20% since 1960.

    In all, the researchers estimate that the nation could face damage worth 0.7 percent of gross domestic product per year by the 2080s for every 1 degree Fahrenheit rise in global temperature. But that overall number obscures wide variations: The worst-hit counties — mainly in states that already have warm climates, like Arizona or Texas — could see losses worth 10 to 20 percent of GDP or more if emissions continue to rise unchecked.

    Places with very young populations and young populations have more civil war/violence. Arizona is home to a lot of Latino youth (only 7% id white in a 1999 study of Phoenix hs youth) and has been. Historically claimed before by said population. Rebellion there will happen

    SO what might happen if part of the country seceded? Well, in 1860/61 when the southern states seceded, they thought what would happen would be the north would negotiate, or else chicken out and sign a treaty.

    But it turned out, they were wrong. Lincoln was a steely-eyed SOB ready to burn it all down rather than let the union be torn apart (full disclosure: I’m a Lincoln fanboy). The cost of the ensuing war was enormous.

    And this is the key point. Secessionists have always wanted to divide effects by negotiation. But it’s not gonna happen. The country *exists*. It cannot be easily dismembered. It is unlikely to be divided without violence.

    This was true in 1860. It is even more true today. Why?

    Because modern political coalitions are *not* regional. They are local. Our current divides are not north/south or east/west, or even coastal/heartland. They are urban/rural.

    Go look at a county map of elections! Every state has Blue America holding some of its territory, and every state has Red America holding some of its territory!

    We can assume that the new seceding nations would implement laws radicalizing and crystalizing their vision for America, just as the CSA and USA did. The Unionist govt in Washington passed a flury of laws advancing northern priorities on non-slavery issues from 1861-1866.

    This tidal wave of partisan legislation would create some amount of migration and sorting. Managing these would be a headache in times with good relations: but we would also be sorting out military allegiances, bases, nuclear arsenal, etc.

    We would probably be doing it in the context of contested legitimacy of legislatures and leaders. In other words, the best possible outcome is a shitshow that makes Trump look like Jesus.

    In such an environment, it would be easy for a spark to set the whole thing ablaze. The ensuing war would be mind-blowingly violent. Why?

    Because the entire war would be streetfighting between isolated blue enclaves and seas of rural/suburban red america.

    It’d be like Syria’s civil war jacked up on steroids. We have so many guns (proud gun owner here) that you’d have practically universal potential for combatancy, that is, everybody could be a soldier, and geography studies suggests nearly everybody *would* be.

    The war would almost certainly not be conventional, but would likely be typified by decentralized militias organized around urban areas and military bases.

    This is a nightmare scenario. The civil war claimed the lives of 7.5-11% of the military-eligible population in Union territory as of 1860, while it reaped a dread harvest of 20-30% of the military-eligible population of the Confederacy.

    I know some people will be skeptical that such a war would be so hard-fought. Secessionists in 1860 took comfort knowing that Southerners DOMINATED the officer corps of the military. And indeed, Southern officers performed very well and dominated the opening years of the war.

    And today of course, Red Team dominates the ranks of the military.

    But ya know what? When the chips are down, the people you might think aren’t up to fighting turn out to be quite game. Especially if they are numerous and well-financed as Blue Team would be.

    Fantasies that Red Team peddles that in a war our side would be so naturally superior run up against the problem that many armies with individually more experienced or better trained soldiers ultimately lose because of logistics and casualty tolerance.

    The truth is, this conflict doesn’t have an obvious victor. It would be nasty, long, and high-casualty. It would reverberate for decades. It would endanger the entire world as well as American leadership vanished from view.

    And the truth is, it’s not even necessary!

    And the answer to a very divided country is not to just say, “whelp, had a good run there, time to part ways,” but to devolve some authority and seek a new settlement we can all find a way to live with.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  71. @EliteCommInc.

    This is like having a conversation with liberals. If the argument fails, change the definitions to make it work.

    When a Liberal’s argument fails to sway someone, they immediately move to silence and dehumanise that person.

  72. “When a Liberal’s argument fails to sway someone, they immediately move to silence and dehumanise that person.”

    I agree that also does happen among many. Plenty of that goes on here. And that is not the only thing liberals do.

    I am sure you are not suggesting that opposition to shifting the meaning is in any manner a personal attack.

  73. Feryl says: • Website

    How much of this is generational?

    http://denofinquiry2.blogspot.com/2018/08/trust-gis.html

    50% say yes, people can be trusted

    http://denofinquiry2.blogspot.com/2018/08/trust-silents.html

    51% say yes

    http://denofinquiry2.blogspot.com/2018/08/trust-boomers.html

    44% say yes

    http://denofinquiry2.blogspot.com/2018/08/trust-gen-x.html

    32% say yes

    http://denofinquiry2.blogspot.com/2018/08/trust-millennials.html

    31% say yes

    As usual, there’s a clear alignment of X-ers and Millennials* (however much Gen X publicly denies it), while older generations are more aligned with each other. And it’s not a racial thing, either, since I only looked at white guys. The older posters here need to stop with the non-sense that the only difference between generations is racial demographics and taste in music.

    X-ers and Millennials came of age mostly or entirely in the march toward the new Gilded era (which began in earnest in the late 80’s), full of treachery and corruption. GIs, Silents, and Boomers came of age mostly or entirely in the New Deal era (circa 1930-1980), and are much less guarded (even though some people in these generations won’t shut up about how the alleged sins of the New Deal era).

    *X-ers and Millennials are also more supportive of government enforced inequality reduction than older generations are, again this is true even when adjusted for race and gender.

  74. Feryl says:
    @Mark G.

    Trump knew that economic trouble was coming all along, he’s been aware of it since the 90’s. But as we all know, the corporate and Pentagon wing of the GOP pulled off a coup almost immediately, with early stuff like the Travel Ban being an embarrassment to the establishment (ya know, we are an empire after all). The “conservatives” couldn’t get back to another dose of Reaganite neo-liberalism fast enough. So out went Trump 1.0, and since then it’s mostly been lack-luster Trump 2.0 (even though the media and the Left keep over-hyping Trump as this historically strange or destructive figure; in reality, his conformity to the GOP in most respects has kept things fairly boring and stable; I mean, we are nowhere near late 19th century levels of White House and intra-party drama, though in some other political respects we are starting to resemble the fractured America of circa 1860-1920).

  75. @dfordoom

    It’s not a law of nature, of course, but since 2008 it has strikingly been the case that the only way to win the Democrat nomination is to win the black vote. Hillary won whites in 2008 and lost the nomination; Sanders won whites in 2016 and lost the nomination.

    A black candidate more easily becomes the candidate for blacks, but it’s being the candidate for blacks that matters (ie Ben Carson got next to none). That is ultimately what Lee Kuan Yew was driving out–people vote in accordance with the interests of their race and/or religion.

    • Replies: @Feryl
  76. @dfordoom

    He had enormous leverage. If anyone could’ve wormed his way out of the predicament he was in, it was him. Hell, he literally did exactly that a decade ago!

  77. @Wade

    Emphatically agree.

    This story should be an enterprising journalist’s dream. But journalists are lapdogs of the powerful, not watchdogs of them. They speak power to truth, never truth to power.

  78. @notanon

    Yep. And to a certain extent the elite don’t want us to necessarily be unhappy, just docile and drugged. Porn, video games, Netflix, Wal-Mart on the weekends to buy cheap crud from China, etc.

    • Agree: notanon
    • Replies: @Twinkie
  79. @Astonished

    I share your sentiments. I don’t offer financial advice for obvious reasons, but I sympathize with a lot of our commenters and would be happy to see those with the means to do so consider hard money now.

  80. @Astonished

    It’s why we need to start seriously talking about an equitable political dissolution yesterday. I understand a lot of older people’s nostalgic attachment to the US of a couple of generations ago, but that country is gone and it’s not coming back. The time to fight for it was when they were young adults. The young adults of today would be fighting an unwinnable war trying to do so now.

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  81. @Oblivionrecurs

    Huh? There is no black flight from the South. Quite the opposite.

  82. @Mark G.

    Agree.

    What do you think the fallout will be, though–especially if it’s Trump v Warren or Sanders–if the massive asset deflation begins on election night as soon as the returns confirm Trump’s defeat and continues precipitously through inauguration day and months and years after that? The corporate media and left will try to spin it as Trump destroying the economy, but Trump will counter–and a lot of people will sympathize with him–that empowering socialists destroyed the economy.

    All things considered, that’s probably not a particularly awful outcome, especially if Republicans hold the Senate, which they probably will.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    , @Astonished
  83. @dfordoom

    Blacks always vote in (what they perceive to be) their own interests. This isn’t hard.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  84. Feryl says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    This can’t go on forever, either racially or generationally. Voters over the age of about 45 can generally be said to be the voters who were imprinted by an era of radical transition to cultural experimentation (the 60’s and 70”s) and then the gutting of New Deal economics (the 80’s and 90’s). Those born since the mid-70’s, though, were imprinted by the collapse of America that began with GHW Bush’s off-shoring, tax cuts, and endless wars. Essentially, older voters are more stubbornly commited to re-hashing the concerns and culture of the past. Whereas younger voters are tired of the dated and ineffective ideologies that put us in this mess, and want desperately to fix the major disasters of the post-2000 era.

    Racially speaking……. California ought to be the most important state in the primaries, and blacks are increasingly irrelevant in that state (a handful of older black pols are still clinging to the system first developed in the 60’s, but they are not the future). With some glee I report that Democrats until quite recently typically downplayed that state’s importance in the primary while emphasizing the very black urban East, but then shouted at the tops of their lungs about how many CA voters vote Dem in the general election*.

    Texas ought to be important, too. And Texas is increasingly filled with Gen X/Millennial/Gen Z white yuppie types, as well as Hispanics and Asians. In the general election, TX has a while before it becomes CA-like. But in the Dem primaries, the state ought to resemble CA a bit sooner.

    The continuing domination of white and black Boomer voters will, eventually, wane. It has to. People die, after all. We have black Boomers in particular to blame for giving us Hilary; had Bernie ran, he likely beats Trump and is able to get cracking on some important reforms that neither Hilary or Trump were ever going to even try to do.

    *It’s amazing how 90% of American elite culture revolves around Bos-Wash, yet in the presidential election the media and political establishment suddenly pretend to care about the Western US. Hint: it’s not the New Deal era, when the Midwest was a powerhouse and all 4 quadrants of the country were given some semblance of respect. Notably, a number of Alt-Right thinkers emanate from the Midwest, South, and West, whereas the Bos-Wash establishment is full of parasites on the modern US carcass of oozing pus and slime. Reagan was wrong; the New Deal era Northeast establishment did as best as it could to listen to everyone else. Since Reagan was elected, the establishment has gotten much more gluttonous and self-serving.

    • Replies: @216
  85. 216 says: • Website
    @Feryl

    Notably, a number of Alt-Right thinkers emanate from the Midwest, South, and West, whereas the Bos-Wash establishment is full of parasites on the modern US carcass of oozing pus and slime. Reagan was wrong

    The Z Man lives in Baltimore, unsure if he’s from Baltimore as he’s mentioned living in Boston at some point in the past.

    Gavin McInees is a true rootless cosmopolitian, but the biggest city of influence for him is NYC.

    P Brimelow, same, lives in CT, worked in NYC. Derb lives in Long Island. Ricky Vaughn, supposedly, was from Vermont.

    The most underrepresented bloc seem to be LDS, I recall an interaction with one LDS on the old blog after I raised this question.

    Also never known anyone born in Hawaii, vis a vis people deployed by the military there.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  86. What I can’t fathom is that anyone with an IQ over 50 believed the official story of the assassination of Osama bin Laden. The world’s most wanted terrorist, so the US military kills him rather than interrogating him and buries the body at sea in deference to some unknown Islamic tradition. Later, members of Seal Team Six perish in an unrelated incident.

  87. dfordoom says: • Website
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Blacks always vote in (what they perceive to be) their own interests. This isn’t hard.

    That’s pretty much how democracy works. Everybody votes in what they perceive to be their own interests. What white nationalists can’t accept is that most whites do not define their own interests in racial terms. They define their own interests in class, socioeconomic, religious (in the case of Evangelicals) and gender terms.

    And a lot of white people are incapable of understanding their own interests, whether those interests be racial or class interests. Marxists were wrong about a lot of things but they were right about false consciousness.

    Blacks appear to be a lot more sensible than white people.

  88. @Audacious Epigone

    Are you at all familiar with what constitutes “evidence”? Because nothing that you’ve mentioned in your response resembles it. If you went into a court of law with a case like that, it would be tossed out like yesterday’s garbage. How are you going to say that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered? You don’t have a suspect; you don’t have a plausible theory of the crime; you have no witnesses who saw anything; and you have a coroner’s report ruling his death a suicide.

    Now let’s look at your statements one by one to see what can be made of them.

    No material change in his condition (ie still looking at life in prison) and he’s taken off suicide watch after a week?

    Suicide watch is an odious and extremely expensive duty. It is shirked at every opportunity. Even most people who end up in lockdown for attempted suicide are not kept on suicide watch. There is no institution that has either the staffing or the funds for such white knighting, and guards/doctors/nurses quickly become indifferent to it.

    Highest profile prisoner in four decades…

    A hyperbolic and preposterous description of Epstein. Is he more high-profile than OJ Simpson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Zacarias Moussaoui, Ted Kacyznski, Timothy McVeigh, Casey Anthony, James Holmes, Aaron Hernandez, Rod Blagojevich, Martin Shkreli, or Jack Kevorkian? If you answered yes, then you have a very selective memory regarding just how much media attention these cases garnered in their day. And what is with the odd time frame? Who is the other bookend here, Mark David Chapman?

    …and the system is too incompetent to even keep an eye on him?

    The “system” is the walking definition of incompetent. Often enough, this is the subject of many a post and comment here at Unz. Affirmative Action hiring practices combined with the Peter Principle combined with general bureaucratic malaise have been discussed here ad infinitum, but apparently these are facts only conveniently remembered.

    Two cameras randomly malfunctioning exactly when he was dying?

    They were not “randomly malfunctioning,” they were non-functioning. This spurious ‘randomly’ is a canard approximately on the same level as the 9/11 Truthers and their “free-fall speed.” This is how it works in a government facility. You cannot simply hire somebody to fix the broken cameras. First you have to submit a work order to your immediate supervisor, who must decide if it’s am acceptable budgetary allowance (while having every incentive to reject it), who passes it along to the facility maintenance people, who deny it and refer it to the area techs, who finally after 4 months send a repairman to the premises, who surveys the site and quickly concludes that his union does not permit him to crawl into confined spaces and so he cannot do the work today, and then the process starts all over. I would not be surprised if those cameras had work orders going back for years. Nobody wants to dig into this because any real investigation would quickly discover just how inept the whole system really is.

    Extremely convenient for the establishment that he is dead?

    More convenient than people like Seymour Hersh, Edward Snowden, or even Woodward and Bernstein, who did real damage to the establishment and are very much alive? The establishment obviously didn’t care all that much about Epstein or they would have hit him when it was much easier to do so. Besides, this is just an association fallacy. There are untold thousands of people whose deaths could be plausibly construed as convenient for the establishment, but that doesn’t mean anything.

    Russia hoax goes on and on over nothing for years and this case is closed in a matter of hours?

    Perhaps that ought to be a clue for you. The Russiagate hoax was transparently devoid of substance from the very beginning. It was a concocted piece of political agitprop designed to be a continuation of the Democrats’ smear campaign against President Trump. Jeffrey Epstein’s suicide is a lot more real. Only bullshit can go on and on for ever; the facts simply live their day and are done.

  89. notanon says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    Epstein is the ultimate litmus test.

  90. @dfordoom

    “That’s pretty much how democracy works. Everybody votes in what they perceive to be their own interests. ”

    LOL – what you’re incapable of understanding is that one of the prime reasons the US is currently circling the bowl is because more and more identity groups are emerging and voting their own specific interests based on identity, and not sensible policy. It’s being proven right in front of our eyes, in a multiracial democracy, democracy doesn’t work.

    “What white nationalists can’t accept is that most whites do not define their own interests in racial terms. ”

    And what self hating whites like you don’t realize is that is exactly why, in a multiracial state, whites find themselves being more and more relegated to 3rd class, tax slave status in the country they created.

    ” Marxists were wrong about a lot of things but they were right about false consciousness.”

    Thank you, exhibit A.

    “Blacks appear to be a lot more sensible than white people.”

    Hilarious! By what measure? Blacks have been duped into supporting a system that has turned them into a permanent underclass.

    Try again.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @dfordoom
    , @Mr. Rational
  91. iffen says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    And what self hating whites like you

    I am tempted to say that it is a good thing that WNs use this term as it is a very good impediment to your recruitment efforts, but then it is probably a very minor impediment compared to the totality.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  92. @Intelligent Dasein

    Nobody wants to dig into this because any real investigation would quickly discover just how inept the whole system really is.

    I disagree with most of your posts but this is totally accurate. The raw stupidity inside .gov has to be seen from the inside to be believed.

    However, reasonably intelligent folks inside .gov know this and _use_ it.

    That reality sheds no light either way on the Epstein affair imho.

  93. Mark G. says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    If the Republicans hold the Senate then the resulting gridlock may be a good thing. I think even better is that the Bushian brand of conservatism has been completely discredited forever. When the Republicans tried to offer a continuation of that with McCain and Romney the voters rejected that. There were earlier elements of Trumpism in the Buchanan, Perot and Paul campaigns and Trump created a synthesis of that he could win with. Because of demographic changes, the Republicans can’t be the Neocon led party of Wall Street and the military-industrial complex. Trump has hurt himself somewhat by catering to this faction within the party since he got elected. His Republican successors have to focus on being a party of the white middle and working class in order to get elected.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  94. @Mark G.

    When the National MasterCard appears to have no spending limit, public consent to pissing away “money” on “stuff” is bottomless.

    The problem is, that “money” is actually IOU’s, the value of which is a function of mass psychology. Today’s fad is that 30 year debt of a bankrupt system is “good-as-gold.”

    While I thought the fad would burn out literally decades ago, here we are. So much for logic in forecasting.

    We’ve HAD our inflation. It all went into asset prices (sort of.) It actually filled an OCEAN of debt, and people count that debt as wealth…but its value rests entirely on collective belief that it will be honored. At some point, this belief will end, and all that wealth will simply disappear.

    But today we see how powerful is inertia. Long term interest rates are at all time lows, an expression of trust that shows us that the fad remains as strong as ever.

    That could change on a dime, but it hasn’t. We could still be here a decade from now, who am I to know?

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  95. @dfordoom

    Blacks appear to be a lot more high-time-preference than white people.

    IFIFY.

  96. Twinkie says:
    @216

    Jared Taylor lives in a DC suburb.

  97. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    ” This is a society in which the idea that a man can magically change into a woman just by putting on a frock is mainstream and respectable”

    Can you expand on this” Can you explain what you meant? Can you add so that your thinking becomes available for understanding by people with normal average intelligence and those with higher IQ?

    Truth is one but lies or ‘conspiracy ” to to explain it or explain it away can be numerous but until truth is established the ” lies” your best guide to get to the truth .
    ( But this is different assertion. I still need you to expand on your polemical irrelevant insertion – “This is a society in which the idea that a man can magically change into a woman just by putting on a frock is mainstream and respectable”)

  98. Twinkie says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Netflix

    Now wait just a minute. Where would I be getting Danish films and Korean dramas without Netflix, specialty video stores?

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Audacious Epigone
  99. @Audacious Epigone

    Prechter’s work on correlating activity in the stock market to presidential re-election (etc.) seems solid.

    When stocks are in a long-term downtrend, incumbents get the boot.
    When stocks are flying higher, incumbents are returned to office. If, as was Nixon’s fate, stocks flying higher into the election then turn south in earnest, the POTUS can be driven from office (over stuff that looks minor by today’s standards of Oval Office criminality.)

    Much of Trump’s stuff looks to me like he’s aware of this and intends to be the first POTUS to shift blame onto others, in the event that social mood (as measured by stock trends) turns hard down. I’m not sure that’s likely or even possible. Maybe the rumored existence of all these sealed Grand Jury indictments and the so-far apocryphal “Storm” are to be dusted off and used (if needed) during the next 14 months. It surely beats me.

    These are uncharted waters. No one has ever seen a debt (credit) bubble under conditions of (1) an asset price mania, including a mania for debt instruments and (2) fiat money. During the Roaring 20’s we saw a credit bubble limited by a “convertible-money” limiter, hence the snap-back of 1930-32, made immeasurably worse by Stupid Political Moves which prolonged the Great Depression for 15 years. What we face is a decline that follows something that dwarfs (and re-dwarfs) the 1920’s.

    What is wealth now? So much “moneyness” sloshes around now that we have no idea what a “real” price for gold, for land, for container ships, for train tracks, for phones, for No. 2 pencils…etc. should be, absent the credit tsunami.

    What will prices for all those things do when the ability to roll over and expand debt ends? The answer is naturally “it depends.” Metals today are just another commodity. Unless they return to politically-mandated roles in money, they’ll remain just another commodity. Productive land sounds great, but in times of tumult, farmers are THE most easily crushed of any group (note Ukranian Kulak life expectancy in the 1930’s.) Plant and equipment is only valuable if politicians aren’t systematically destroying commerce (see Argentina under the Kirschner regimes.)

    I wish I knew what to do to “prep,” but all roads lead back (for me) to stick with Plan A (the world as it is right now), stay out of debt, save some fiat funds in places that look like they’ll be later to evaporate, but in the end there’s no visibility in my opinion. Predicting what’s coming is no more than a parlor game, purest conjecture.

    All I know is that our entire US and World economies are warped to serve demand created largely by Wimpy promising Popeye two hamburgers next week if Popeye will buy him one today. When that demand ends, the tide will go out and strand a vast amount of the entire world’s production.

    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  100. @Mark G.

    That’s all very logical and linear but I can’t help thinking that the whole electoral process is much simpler. It appears to me that a deal is in place between the two wings of the uniparty in which a democrat holds the White House for two terms, then a republican does the same, and the deal is set to continue in place forever.

    When the 2nd term campaign rolls around, the “opposition party” fields a candidate that not even their most slavishly devoted kool ade drinkers will support with any degree of enthusiasm. That is just for the sake of appearances, though, so that the fake election returns won’t be too hotly contested.

    The votes, in such a scenario, don’t matter at all, only the way they are reported. Candidates like Paul and Buchanan aren’t even allowed to be a sideshow. Sideshows are more likely to be remembered by anyone other than the supporters of the sideshow candidates, so such candidates aren’t allowed any notice by the news media. Perot bought himself some media coverage and became a sideshow.

    After that election it’s been two terms each, in a rotation.

  101. @Astonished

    This has degraded into a chaos theory math problem–with only one simulation.

    In other words, no-one has a clue when the top blows off the inflated world economy.

    Enjoy the good life now as best you can–and get mentally and physically ready to muddle through with a much lower standard of living when it becomes necessary.

    Nowhere is it written that we apes have any right to understand the world around us.

  102. @iffen

    1. I’m not what you define as a white nationalist. You invoke that term because it appeals to your MSM calibrated, lazy manner of thinking.

    2. I’m not attempting to recruit anyone.

    3. It amuses me that you are triggered by the term “self hating white”. The truth hurts.

    • Replies: @iffen
  103. iffen says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    1. I’m not what you define as a white nationalist.

    What are you then?

    2. I’m not attempting to recruit anyone.

    You push a POV.

    3. It amuses me that you are triggered by the term “self hating white”. The truth hurts.

    I’m white and not ashamed of it.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  104. @Intelligent Dasein

    Obviously I can’t put forth airtight evidence from the outside looking in.

    I’ll entertain the idea that the incompetence and dysfunction are so deep and endemic that even a high profile person of high interest can’t be kept alive by the system. That of course puts even more pressure on the question of why he thought he’d go away for life this time around, though. He easily beat the rap a decade ago but he was so depressed this time around that he wasn’t even willing to try?

  105. @Twinkie

    There is a lot of good stuff on YT, too–but the top videos of all time are all pop music tracks. We are not the mean, the median, or the mode, my friend.

  106. @Astonished

    If they were more diligent in pulling cash out of the system over the last few decades so that it was a thing of the past today, maybe negative interest rates could have extended the farce awhile longer, but I don’t see how that happens now. Literally take the bills and put them under your mattress, and negative interest rates don’t work. There are no arrows left in the Keynesian quiver. What, cut rates a couple of points and then another “quantitative easing”? The jig is going to be up.

  107. @iffen

    What are you?

    LOL who here doesn’t push their POV?

    Your writing here suggests otherwise.

    • Replies: @iffen
  108. @Audacious Epigone

    The best thing about YT is watching old media and comparing social standards of previous decades to the current ones.

    A show like Hee Haw or The Dean Martin Celebrity Roast would not be possible today. Everybody at the table was chain smoking and half of them were trashed. Martin himself was almost always fall down drunk.

    • Agree: Audacious Epigone
    • Replies: @Audacious Epigone
  109. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Intelligent Dasein

    How are you going to say that Jeffrey Epstein was murdered? You don’t have a suspect; you don’t have a plausible theory of the crime; you have no witnesses who saw anything; and you have a coroner’s report ruling his death a suicide.

    We’re talking about conspiracy theorists here. Conspiracy theorists don’t need no stinkin’ evidence.

    In fact the less evidence there is the better. If there’s no evidence at all then that proves that it’s a real conspiracy because it means there’s been a cover-up. Ask Mulder.

    That’s how the conspiracy theory mindset works. All good conspiracy theories work best when there’s zero evidence. And if there’s evidence that contradicts the conspiracy theory that’s even better – it proves that the Evil Conspirators have planted false evidence.

    You don’t need evidence. You just need to want to believe.

  110. dfordoom says: • Website
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    LOL – what you’re incapable of understanding is that one of the prime reasons the US is currently circling the bowl is because more and more identity groups are emerging and voting their own specific interests based on identity, and not sensible policy. It’s being proven right in front of our eyes, in a multiracial democracy, democracy doesn’t work.

    Yes. Democracy would only work in a society where everybody is exactly the same and has exactly the same interests. Such a society does not exist. It has nothing to do with race. There will always be interest groups and they will always vote for their own interests. That’s why democracy will always be unworkable. Democracy is based on the ludicrous theory that people will vote for what’s best for the country rather than what’s best for their own group/class or whatever.

    And what self hating whites like you don’t realize is that is exactly why, in a multiracial state, whites find themselves being more and more relegated to 3rd class, tax slave status in the country they created.

    Have you told Bill Gates he’s an oppressed third-class citizen? In the modern West the elites (including white elites) are first-class citizens, If you’re not a member of the elites then you’re a second- or third-class citizen (regardless of race).

    Blacks have been duped into supporting a system that has turned them into a permanent underclass.

    But you just told us that whites were now the permanent underclass.

    BTW there’s nothing remotely self-hating about me. And I like some white people and I don’t like others. I don’t like people just because they’re white.

  111. iffen says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    1. I’m not what you define as a white nationalist.

    Okay, I’ll take you at your word. I thought you stated that race was your starting point.

    What are you

    partisan, American civic nationalist, pragmatic economic leftist (a sort of New Deal leftist)

  112. vok3 says:

    Oblivionrecurs’ post at #72 is excellent.

  113. Twinkie says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    We are not the mean, the median, or the mode, my friend.

    Indeed. I don’t know what we are.

    In any case, when I was younger (college/grad school), I walked to a tiny indie video rental store run by an odd middle-aged lady to rent foreign films, mostly German and Scandinavian fare. There was not much cataloging – she grabbed the title for me when I asked. I imagine that place is long gone now, and the proprietor is either retired or perhaps even passed away.

    I have fond memories of that place, but given the choice of Netflix and that place today, it wouldn’t even be a consideration.

  114. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Many of the cartoons I watched as a kid wouldn’t be possible today.

    • Replies: @iffen
  115. @Audacious Epigone

    It’s why we need to start seriously talking about an equitable political dissolution yesterday.

    I believe this is futile, because of the radically different notions of “equity” among the various parties.  Some are simply going to have to be put down with force.  (The ones who were so easily kept out by shopkeepers armed with .22 rifles are going to be pretty easily dealt with once the will exists.)

    The young adults of today would be fighting an unwinnable war trying to do so now.

    The alternative is to give up your wife and daughters to dindus, and your sons to the pedo lobby.

    • Replies: @iffen
  116. iffen says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Many of the cartoons I watched as a kid wouldn’t be possible today.

    You should take a look at mine from the late 50’s and early 60’s.

  117. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Blacks have been duped into supporting a system that has turned them into a permanent underclass.

    They were always going to be a permanent underclass, because of general lack of traits creating human capital.  The question is who was going to buy them off and vote-farm them.

  118. iffen says:
    @Mr. Rational

    I don’t want to join the grammar police because mine is so bad, but shouldn’t that be dindu nuffins?

    • Replies: @Mr. Rational
  119. @iffen

    “Dindu nuffin” is the perennial claim.  “Dindu” is the new label.

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