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A year ago I wrote about a huge PEW opinion poll of religious belief in Eastern Europe.

As it happens, one of the questions dealt with the question of which Patriarch the Orthodox believers of each country consider to be the highest authority in Orthodoxy.

poll-orthodox-highest-authority

There is a grand total of one country where EP is considered to be the highest authority of Orthodoxy (Greece), and only a couple where it has a clear lead over ROC (Greece and Romania).

Strictly speaking, the Greeks are correct. The four ancient Churches do have the highest authority by dint of their antiquity, but this precedence is symbolic and does not absolve them of the responsibility to act in a conciliar spirit.

This confirms my point that Bart’s position on the Ukrainian schismatics does not conform to ecclesiastical reality, to demographic reality, or to the reality of global Orthodox opinion. It is not ROC that is going to get isolated.

 
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  1. lol, looks like the Orthodox everywhere are primarily driven by nationalist considerations.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Spisarevski
    , @Bliss
  2. AP says:

    Well, you can add Ukraine’s “grey” to the “Constantinople” total.

    Also, the millions of Orthodox in the USA weren’t polled. Georgians prefer their own hierarch but it looks like the small number of C supporters outnumber the small number of R supporters. The ones in Baltics are mostly just ethnic Russians.

  3. Yevardian says:

    Armenia isn’t even Orthodox and never has been. Armenia tru oldest Christian Church, everyone bow to us.

  4. Kinez says:

    The question doesn’t even make sense in the context of the Church. No single bishop is the “highest authority in Orthodoxy”.

  5. @AP

    Since most Russian immigrants to the US are atheists and/or Jews, it is indeed likely that most of them would vote for EP.

    However, even that doesn’t necessitate taking Constantinople’s side.

    For instance, even James Jatras – being Greek-American, and well acquainted with Orthodox canon – would almost certainly select EP. Despite totally being on Moscow’s side of the dispute.

    And /r/OrthodoxChristianity – which I assume is mostly populated by Orthodox Americans – is critical of EP’s behavior: https://www.reddit.com/r/OrthodoxChristianity/comments/9nbs6h/ukraine_megathread_part_ii/?sort=top

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Anonymous
  6. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    They have more national churches.
    Lucky them.

  7. Anon[402] • Disclaimer says:

    Re. Romania, polls are worthless. 93% or so of the country calls themselves orthodox, but last month’s referendum against gay marriage, supported by orthodox and neoprotestant churches, did not reach the 30% threshold. Romanians will tell you whatever they think you want them to hear. Of course they’ll say His Beatitude is the most important person in Christianity, but did they even read the question?

    Also, since occupation of Bessarabia, Russians can forget about soft power. All the Jewish-Russian politruks brought in the fifties and sixties are today, as families or even in person, in NYC. And even those weren’t too concerned about churches.

    All in all, I would not read too much on Romania’s ranking of Moskva vs Istanbul. Moreover, I suspect the same is true about most other countries polled here, especially those bringing in the baggage of USSR. It’s not like Georgians are some sort of titans of theology.

    • Replies: @DFH
  8. DFH says:
    @Anon

    It’s not like Georgians are some sort of titans of theology.

    They did produce history’s most significant seminarian

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  9. @DFH

    They did produce history’s most significant seminarian

    Jesus Christ?


    The Jews covered up the Georgian ancestry of Christ (German Patsatsiya 2003)

    • LOL: Spisarevski
  10. @German_reader

    lol, looks like the Orthodox everywhere are primarily driven by nationalist considerations.

    Orthodox Christianity has played a crucial role in the preservation of most Orthodox nations, under Ottoman yoke or ottoman threat, or mongol/tatar yoke, etc.

    And the survival of Christians and their identity (of which the faith itself is a big part) is very much a valid religious concern for any good Christian.

    So nationalism isn’t something separate from religion.

    Finally as many have mentioned, the Orthodox church is structured differently and there really isn’t a central authority, and ideally decisions should be taken with full agreement of the churches.

    That being said, the CIAnigger in Istanbul should be declared Excommunicate Traitoris, even if only for the anglojewish niggerfaggotry that he is trying to push on the Orthodox people while being a nobody.

  11. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I meant that a lot of Orthodox in the USA are Greeks and Ukrainians, who probably outnumber the non-Jewish Russian immigrants and Serbs.

  12. Talha says:

    IstamBart…

    Peace.

  13. OT: Lifespan prediction appears to be improving, as well as an interesting exploration on epigenetics.

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612256/want-to-know-when-youre-going-to-die/

    The hypothesis was that these so-called epigenetic changes, which alter the activity of DNA but not the DNA sequence itself, might help explain why two people with identical genes differ in this way. But Horvath found “zero signal” in the epigenetics of the twins’ saliva. Instead, what caught his attention was a powerful link between epigenetic changes and aging. “I was blown away by how strong the signal was,” he says. “I dropped most other projects in my lab and said: ‘This is the future.’”

    Horvath became particularly intrigued by how certain chemical changes to cytosine—one of the four DNA bases, or “letters” of the genetic code—make genes more or less active. Given someone’s actual age, looking for these changes in that person’s DNA can tell him whether the person’s body is aging unusually fast or slowly. His team tested this epigenetic clock on 13,000 blood samples collected decades ago, from people whose subsequent date of death was known. The results revealed that the clock can be used to predict mortality.

  14. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Since most Russian immigrants to the US are atheists and/or Jews, it is indeed likely that most of them would vote for EP.

    The Jews are for whoever will weaken/destroy the Christian church. That’s how they’ve rolled for 2000 years, since choosing Barabbas over Christ.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  15. Bart is a patriarch of non-existent Constantinople. That says it all.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  16. @Anonymous

    In that case they should take the side of Bart/State Department/CIA: this would inflict maximum damage on the Orthodox Christianity.

  17. @AP

    The ones in Baltics are mostly just ethnic Russians.

    Probably those in Moldavia, too. Maybe even Armenia. There’s certainly a racial tilt to this list. Bosnia, Ukraine, Serbia, and Bulgaria have their own national churches, but still prefer St Basil’s to Hagia Sophia.

    Bulgarians consider themselves the proto-Slavs. Or proto-Slavonics, if you prefer. That’s a source of pride.

    Many Ukrainians who recoil from Moscow prefer to be in communion with Rome over Constantinople. This might also be the case in Slavic lands in which Orthodox are in the minority– Slovakia, Slovenia, etc.– and weren’t polled here.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AnonFromTN
  18. @AnonFromTN

    No, the Four Lads say it all. Words by an Ulsterman, Jimmy Kennedy.

  19. AP says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Ukraine, Serbia, and Bulgaria have their own national churches, but still prefer St Basil’s to Hagia Sophia.

    This is among the ones who don’t prefer their national Church. Probably an absolute majority of Ukrainians who prefer their national Church would side with Constantinople over Moscow if they had to choose between these two.

  20. @Reg Cæsar

    Hagia Sophia is now defaced and converted into a mosque. Bart’s church is St. George (https://www.patriarchate.org/services). Has all of ~150 parishioners. So, in Orthodoxy, Bart is the biggest frog in the smallest pond.

  21. Bliss says:
    @German_reader

    looks like the Orthodox everywhere are primarily driven by nationalist considerations.

    That makes it the ideal church for the ethno-nationalists (as opposed to the white-nationalists) of the alt-right.

    They will just have to accept that Orthodox Ethiopians, Egyptians, Syrians etc are their elders in faith.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Orthodox_Tewahedo_Church

    The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church is the largest of the Oriental Orthodox Christian churches. One of the few pre-colonial Christian churches in Sub-Saharan Africa, the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church has a membership of between 45 and 50 million people, the majority of whom live in Ethiopia. It is a founding member of the World Council of Churches.

    Ethiopia is the second country historically, following only Armenia, to have officially proclaimed Christianity as state religion (in 333 AD), although some argue, on account of biblical references, that it may have been the first.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  22. @Bliss

    I’m too lazy to look it up, but I don’t think those Oriental churches or the church of Ethiopia are affiliated with the Orthodox in Russia and the Balkans; iirc they split from the imperial (Byzantine Orthodox) church already in late antiquity.
    But sure, the Christian heritage of Ethiopia, Syria and Egypt is certainly impressive in many ways.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  23. Bliss says:
    @German_reader

    You’re right. I looked it up:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_Orthodoxy

    At the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD, the Oriental Orthodox churches separated from the Orthodox Church, primarily over differences in Christology. Oriental Orthodoxy developed distinctively under the patriarchate of Alexandria in Egypt, originally part of the Pentarchy, and the only episcopal see besides the Holy See to maintain the title “Pope”. The majority of Oriental Orthodox Christians live in Egypt, Ethiopia, Eritrea, and Armenia, with smaller Syriac communities living in the Middle East – decreasing due to persecution – and India.

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