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WaPo: Why Russia is wooing South Africa’s white farmers

The selling points are abundant farmland, relative safety and a country that holds tight to traditional Christian values.

What is not said — but clearly understood — is how this fits neatly into the identity politics of Russian President Vladi­mir Putin.

… Yet inside Russia, much of his support grows from the idea of Russia as the caretaker for a white, Christian and old-style order — rejecting “so-called tolerance, genderless and infertile,” in Putin’s own words in 2013.

Such comments have helped elevate Putin’s stature among populists and nativist-driven political movements in the West.

Certainly, as I keep pointing out, this would come as a great surprise to Russian nationalists themselves.

Add to that the unease among some white South African farmers as the country debates possible land redistribution to redress racial imbalances during apartheid.

As one wit on Le Reddit put it: “Add to that the unease among some white South African Russian farmers as the country the Bolshevik government debates possible land redistribution to redress racial class imbalances during apartheid the Czarist times.

South Africa’s land expropriation debate and the myth of “white genocide” have been a rallying cry for white nationalists around the world for years.

Your elites want you dead.

Whites still own the majority of land in South Africa, despite making up less than 10 percent of the population of 56 million.

Jews constitute more than a third of American billionaires, despite making up about 2% of the American population.

But somehow I don’t see WaPo ever making this point.

The purported plight of white South Africans — long a rallying cry of global far-right movements — caught the attention of President Trump last month. After watching a segment about the issue on Fox News, he asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to study the “large-scale killing” of white farmers and the government’s land expropriation issue.

The tweet was the president’s first, at least while in office, to contain the word “Africa.” South Africa’s government denounced Trump’s remarks.

Can’t do without the mandatory Drumpf dig.

Anyhow, what this demonstrates is that Russia is angering all the correct people. So far as the Boers are concerned it should keep on doing the same thing.

 
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  1. Dmitry says:

    It was fake news domestically, that these rich, civilized white people want to live in places like Stavropol. So you are supposed to think “the authorities can’t be so bad, if the Boers will live here”.

    In reality, a few delegations have visited, over a number of years – according to Philip Owen.

    Last summer ,one couple who visited Stavropol which generated all this news, and a month later when interviewed in newspaper, they said like they now want to look at other regions of the country, or Hungary, or Poland.

    The ironic thing – hundred of black South Africans still given free scholarships to study in Russian universities each year.

    -

    In other fake news – British newspaper on sale in Dublin airport. (I guess the “Putin’s philosopher” is Dugin)

    • Replies: @g2k
  2. Dmitry says:

    Most South Africans in Russia are – negroes with scholarships.

    Some African students in Russia (not South Africans particularly), have a history of bad behaviour. (My mother says they were sexually harassed in the 1980s, by African and Arab visiting students.)

    -

    Meanwhile, Johannes du Toit interviewed by Washington Post above, and his father – he married a Russian woman. (His face is familiar- because stories in the summer were interviewing the same guy).

    • Replies: @Raymie
    , @Philip Owen
  3. A new book has just been published about the issue of farm murders in South Africa: Ernst Roets, Kill the Boer: Government complicity in South Africa’s brutal farm murders. As one can guess from the title, it tries to make the case that those murders aren’t just due to common criminality, but rather a campaign of ethnic cleansing, possibly supported in secret by parts of the ANC. I currently don’t have time to read it myself, but maybe some other commenter is interested in looking it up.
    As for Western media, their lying seems to become ever more shameless.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Okechukwu
  4. songbird says:

    The tweet was the president’s first, at least while in office, to contain the word “Africa.”

    I view lack of Africa tweets generally as a positive. African advocacy among non-Africans seems to inevitably transform into a virulent antipathy towards Europe and Europeans, as the virtue signaling escalates. See Swede-hating Bono and the Irish-hating head of his charity.

    Anyway, it should be a truism that you cannot solve a people’s problems externally. We have never fixed Haiti or Detroit, so why the heck should we try to fix Africa.

    South Africa’s government denounced Trump’s remarks.

    Should be considered praise or at least flattery when almost any African government denounces you.

  5. I still don’t get it: is Boer migration to Russia just hype or an actual thing??

    Jews constitute more than a third of American billionaires, despite making up about 2% of the American population.

    There is a lot of confusion regarding the size of America’s Jewish population. The commonly cited 2% figure comes from 30 years ago, or something like that. Since then general US population expanded by close to 50%, and Jews dissipated via low birthrates and intermarriage.

  6. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    I’m not sure how accurate (or ignorant) my image of South African Boers is.

    My impression has always been of this very elite, highly civilized people. Typical of colonial masters, but more intensely even than places like South America.

    South Africa was extremely successful, during the Boer epoch. Even ruled by a small Boer elite, the country had world class universities, Nobel prize winners, a successful capitalist economy, and even nuclear weapons. Standard of living reached increasing high levels in South Africa, during the 1960s.

    But eventually, they had too many enemies – even strangely fighting against Cuba (and the Soviet Union).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cuito_Cuanavale

    -
    Boers could be imported as an elite managerial class to solve many problems in Russia (if they could make Africa successful, they would have no problem).

    However, watching too many Die Antwoord videos on YouTube, is recently making me question this plan.

  7. g2k says:
    @Dmitry

    AFAIK unless you’re an actual Russian citizen, you can’t own freehold property of any kind; eastern Europe is more liberal. This was a common gripe on expat forums a few years back when yank contractors in Moscow were looking at Dachas. Owning a farm outright is great, being a tenant or worse, a worker is crap.

    • Replies: @Karl
  8. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I still don’t get it: is Boer migration to Russia just hype or an actual thing??

    This is the family whose visited generated the whole story in the summer – seems quite a lot of hype

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3701396

  9. iffen says:
    @Dmitry

    Dmitry, do you ever wonder if you are stretching yourself too thinly?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  10. @Dmitry

    Don’t know, I think your view is quite inaccurate (it misses some of the peculiarities of the Boers, like the fact that they have been in South Africa for centuries, also their 17th century type religiosity), but I’ve never been to SA (and certainly won’t ever go there). There are also quite a few white South Africans now who are really poor, living in tin roof shacks and unable to get out of the country, which seems like a horrible fate to me…definitely not “elite”.

    • Replies: @iffen
  11. Neal says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Yeah, no one ever give us actual statistic of how many Boers there are, how many wanted to leave S. Africa (30%, 50%?), how many wanted to go to America, Australia, etc… And how many were actually accepted in those countries including Russia? What are the actual statistic to all these questions?

    It’s very hard to think clearly without the data. Right now, it’s mostly noise (with too much emotional appeal without any concrete data).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  12. Dmitry says:
    @iffen

    Well my “knowledge” of South Africa derived from some minutes reading on the internet, so probably not of much value.

    Still, I doubt it can be completely wrong. There were 3 million white South Africans in 1960 (19% of the population) – and yet South Africa became a developed country during the 1960s, and the most powerful country of the continent.

  13. Dmitry says:
    @Neal

    The story in the summer was about a wealthy, attractive young family who visited Russia as tourists, as a way of reconnaissance if they want to immigrate. They said that 20 other families (of their community) were seriously interested in immigrating.

    Later on, this family say they are still deciding where to immigrate.

    Commentator Philip Owen, said he already toured similar people a few years ago.

    -

    Journalists converted the story about a single family visiting Russia as tourists interested in immigrating, into some articles: “15,000 wealthy white South African refugees may arrive now to Russia”.

    • Replies: @Neal
  14. @Felix Keverich

    At this point, as Dmitry relentlessly points out, it is mostly hype.

    But it’s also great and should be welcomed.

    1. It triggers subhumans (Blue Checkmarks) who deserve to be triggered.

    2. Good propaganda for Russia. #RefugeesWelcome? In your face!

    3. What’s hype at first may well translate into reality eventually.

    This seems plausible if (1) things in SA continue deteriorating into outright White Genocide; (2) neoliberalism.txt strengthens its hold over the West, making it less attractive for white immigrants, and perhaps outright inaccessible to white refugees; (3) Russia continues throwing off sovok attitudes in favor of SWPL (being a nice place to live – so attractive to foreign, high quality white people).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  15. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    I don’t have knowledge of the situation either, but I’ve always thought of the Boers the same way I think of Mennonites in the US.

    As to the accomplishments of SA mentioned in another comment, was that the Boers or the English?

    quite a few white South Africans now who are really poor, living in tin roof shacks

    This is because of the reduced “privileged” position. The less capable whites have to compete against the blacks.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  16. DFH says:

    Why is r/Europe so based by Reddit standards?

  17. @iffen

    This is because of the reduced “privileged” position. The less capable whites have to compete against the blacks.

    It’s not only that they’ve lost their privileged position, to some extent they’re now also discriminated against due to those Black economic empowerment policies.
    It’s probably true though that the dumber whites are affected the most by this.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @DFH
  18. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    This is an interesting post.
    Personally, I think important is underlying reality, not so much journalists arguing between each other. So I think number 3 is relevant. (But 1 and 2 is not).

    Boer immigration, would be good for Russian economy in the longterm (obviously) – because of the high human capital of this group, which was proven in their history in Africa.

    But in this story, media attention was for “self-flattery” of the authorities, focusing on the idea they are doing a good job, so Boers want to immigrate. And it was promoted to reinforce the narrative about the “decay of the West”. (The idea they choose not to go to America, etc)

    However, despite the media attention, the family themselves say they received no help from Kremlin in easing their own personal conditions for actual immigration. https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3701396

    By comparison, we can look at Australia (which has hundreds of thousands of South African immigrants). It has practical programs for improving their human capital via South Africa. https://www.thesouthafrican.com/calling-south-african-engineers-australia-wants-you

    -

    Immigration is generally difficult. And although I’m not supporting large government expenditure in this area, you need some kind of organized, intelligently designed, response, if there will be any significant immigration of (high human capital) groups like this.

  19. Anonymous[122] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    There are two groups of whites in South Africa. It’s the English who created the South African civilization you admire. The Afrikaners blame the trauma of colonization by the English for their children’s lower test scores.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  20. Anonymous[122] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    There was a huge welfare state for Afrikaners during Apartheid. That’s now lost because welfare has to be shared and is widely disbursed.

  21. @Dmitry

    The managerial class you are talking about mostly left a long time ago, and abandoned their poorer kin to the tender mercies of South Africa. They were always rather corrupt as well, according to my SA friends, since they based their performance relative against other African governments.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Yevardian
  22. As it happens, Russian travel blogger Alexander Kondrashov uploaded an episode filmed in Johannesburg only a week ago. He’s too bling-bling for my taste, but I think he did a good job conveying what the place feels like on the ground.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  23. neutral says:

    From the Russian side I doubt they would really want to create hostile relations with South Africa and thus risk the entire BRICS relationship, so it seems unlikely they would declare Russia open to mass migration of whites from South Africa.

    From the (((deep state))) side, they would no doubt love to openly declare their hatred for Russia being about race, but it is still a bit too blatant to do this. However a few more decades when USA has whites around the 30% or less mark, then they would probably make it very explicitly clear in public that no white nation should be allowed to exist.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  24. iffen says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    mostly left a long time ago, and abandoned their poorer kin to the tender mercies of South Africa.

    From SA to Detroit, from China to Pakistan, from Appalachia to Silicon Valley, I see a pattern.

  25. Neal says:
    @Dmitry

    Ok, now that makes more sense. When I first heard about Boers in Russia, my bullshit(bs)-meter just went through the roof. Russia? Really? They have the entire world to choose from and they decided on Russia? What’s wrong with America, Australia, or Canada (you know, where Elon Musk went to)? They rejected you? Really? Have you tried lobbying those countries?
    It’s a non-issue to me. My gut feeling is that when the rubber meets the road, those countries will eventually take in those Boers. They won’t be left out to dry so there’s no point in going to Russia.

    Like you said, Russia isn’t expending energy in trying to help those Boers actually coming to Russia. Rather, mostly it’s just talk and propaganda. Maybe they didn’t want to expend the energy because they already knew that the Boers aren’t coming anyway. Those Boers have choices. And unless Global Warming really speeds up turning Russia into a tropical paradise, there are better options. If I’m a Boer, my first choice would be Australia. It’s the best match in all aspects.

  26. @Swedish Family

    “I wish to go to the center of the city, where earlier African Americans weren’t allowed to live”… (1:43)

    WTF IS THIS PC SHIT.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  27. @neutral

    How are they going to be risking anything?

    South Africa is an affirmative action BRIC anyway. Brazil will probably be run by Bolsonaro soon. Modi is a Hindu nationalist (sort of). China isn’t going to care less.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  28. DFH says:
    @German_reader

    to some extent they’re now also discriminated against due to those Black economic empowerment policies

    Near British levels of understatement.

    Post-Apartheid also means that they are also exposed to the black crime that they were shielded from before. Orania, which I believe is a very working-class white community, doesn’t have a crime problem.

  29. On the topic of farming in Russia–the Wall Street Journal today praised Russia’s agricultural resurgence with a front page story.

    https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1044149468352925696 (if you click the link on Twitter you can bypass their paywall)

    Key takeaways:

    • Russia is now the world’s largest wheat exporter (as has been reported here before)
    • Wheat exports have overtaken arms exports to become Russia’s #2 export
    • Russian yields have converged with American yields
    • Land ownership was liberalized in the late ’90s, and now 13% of farms exceed 400 square miles in size
    • Prime Russian farmland is five times cheaper than prime American and three times cheaper than EU Eastern Europe
    • Cheap rouble a major competitive edge for Russian farmers
    • Russian wheat is displacing Western competitors in the Middle East and even Mexico
    • Foreign machinery, including John Deere (they call them Green Machines) has boosted productivity
    • Russian farmers continue to opt for Russian seeds and fertilizers, which are cheaper and almost as good vs. patented Western products
    • Transportation infrastructure is quite good but needs further upgrades

    This all suggests quite an optimistic future for Ukrainian agriculture if the Rada can pass new legislation legalizing the sale of farmland. The Ukraine has comparable, if not better, factor endowments to Russian agricultural regions.

    And I suppose this could be considered another positive legacy of the late Yelstin era. Yelstin is rightly reviled and despised in Russia, but many of his actions in his final two years bequeathed a positive legacy. Rouble devalutation, the flat tax, modernized land ownership, and of course plucking Putin out of security.

  30. @Anatoly Karlin

    The BRIC/BRICS thing is a bogus concept anyway. What exactly do these countries have in common at all? Besides not being invited to G7 meetings. They literally started hosting bullshit glad handing summits because of some bogus “research” put out by Goldman Sachs asset management (in other words a scheme to ripoff their own clients).

    Realistically:

    China: future full spectrum superpower
    Russia: A bigger Poland with better natural resources and weapons
    Brazil: de Gaulle’s quip
    India: 5x Brazil
    South Africa: Zimbabwe 2

    I’m reminded of what Albert Edwards (granted, a permabear doomerist) said–Bloody Ridiculous Investment Concept.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Gerard2
  31. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Probably in their common interest to dethrone the dollar, and minimize the Euro. Of course, there’s a lot of BS added to that.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  32. Dmitry says:
    @Neal

    They said to journalists, they knew 20 families who might be interested in immigrating – and journalists (with some “mathematical skills”) converted it to fairy story about 15,000 Elon Musks arriving.

    -

    Washington Post is not different. This Boer guy they talk to in their article, nowhere in the article they say why he was there. I believe he immigrated to Stavropol because he had married a Russian woman.

    I can emphasize the journalists are lazy. But I seem to know more than they do, after 1 or 2 minutes of reading.

    -

    The serious topic, is how a country can get Elon Musk kinds of immigrants.

    I would design a program giving them special legal status and property rights, in exchange for payment. If for a price like $500,000 payment (to filter out poorer ones), they are given a special kind of citizenship and a land contract, including freedom from all tax for a lifetime? Maybe it would be attractive?

    • Replies: @Neal
    , @anon
  33. @songbird

    It’s in the interest of most people other than the American Empire to dethrone King Dollar. Including most Americans (though there will be transition costs) including me. This was recognized already in 1944, hence Keynes’ proposal of the Bancor.

    That said the power of the Dollar is quite overrated. If international transactions shifted to gold tomorrow, America would remain a powerful and prosperous country.

    Frankly returning to gold as the standard for international payments isn’t a bad idea. A Bancor (or SDRs, as proposed in the modern era frequently) has the advantage of being able to supply unlimited liquidity in a crisis, but I’m highly skeptical of a global central bank really working out.

    • Replies: @Neal
    , @Karl
  34. Gerard2 says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The BRIC/BRICS thing is a bogus concept anyway. What exactly do these countries have in common at all?

    The new South Africa/end of apartheid is directly linked to the fall of communism

    Atrocious driving accidents on the road

    Massively multiethnic countries ( which then affects on issues like corruption)

    Russia ,China and India have all had massive boom’s in their economy since the turn of the century

    they all dominate their continents in either size, population, resources or all of these

  35. Neal says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    How is dethroning King Dollar a good thing for Brazil, S. Africa, or India? Wouldn’t something else just take its place?
    BRICS countries have nothing in common so dethroning King Dollar isn’t a common agenda for them.
    BRICS is just a bunch of countries that are envious of the global limelight that the G7 got. They just want a podium to make themselves look and feel important. Now, I heard the Turks want to join. So will it be BRICTS? Eventually I could see Argentina and Nigeria demanding to join, so it could become BRICTANS.

    =================
    Technically, you can already exchange dollars for gold; it’s just not at a fixed rate. If you have no confidence in dollars you can already exchange it for a lot of other things like gold, silver, platinum, Chinese Yuan, Japanese Yen, stocks, real estate, sport cars, jets, stamps, etc. So, I don’t know what the problem is.

    The gold standard is stupid because it ties economic activities and economic growth to the supply of gold. It distorts economic activity by forcing everyone (from individual to large corporations to whole country) to hold a large reserve of gold and there’s not enough to go around. It also benefits the gold miners and nations that have gold deposit. The gold standard is stupid and I don’t think it is ever coming back.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  36. @Neal

    It’s a non-issue to me. My gut feeling is that when the rubber meets the road, those countries will eventually take in those Boers. They won’t be left out to dry so there’s no point in going to Russia.

    Y’sure?

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/white-south-african-familys-refugee-bid-rejected-allegedly-boosted-case-with-white-supremacist-information

    A white family from South Africa has had their refugee claim for asylum in Canada rejected, having been accused of submitting “white-supremacist hate literature” to bolster their claims of violence by the black majority in their homeland.

    The Endres said they were victims of carjacking in 1995, were assaulted on their farm by four black men who entered their home and robbed them in 2004, had their home burglarized in 2013, their car stolen from outside their house in 2014 and, that same year, three black men tried to steal Sonja’s cell phone while she was working.

    The Immigration and Refugee Board denied them refugee protection, saying there was no reliable evidence they were attacked due to their race, and it was more probable they were attacked for economic reasons — to steal their possessions.

    • Replies: @Neal
    , @Thulean Friend
  37. Neal says:
    @Dmitry

    Companies have headhunters who identify people they want to recruit and actively go out to recruit them, so why not nations? A simple question to ask would be: “What would it take for you to join us? Tax? Ease of doing business? Earning potential? Health and child care benefits? Education? Crime?” The first task would be to put together a database of the top 1 million individuals (globally) that you would like to have on your side. If possible, do a survey on what would it take for them to move.

    Of course, where would they live once you recruited them? I would think that it’s best to build a cluster of 3 super cities within close distance of one another. Each has different set of laws and ran independently from political interference (national or international):
    A Family city (good and safe school, crime and violence free like Singapore)
    A Vice City (a supersized Las Vegas where everything goes – gambling, prostitution, drugs, whatever…). Children are not allowed in the city. People here are exempt from Interpol and extradition. If the world gone mad, a lot of political refugees might ended up here.
    A Cultural City (a supersized Paris with all the museum, opera, sport stadium, etc…)

    As long as the 3 cities pay their yearly tribute to the nation they are left to operate as they see fit. This is like seasteading inside your own country. Of course, honestly, I don’t think any nation would do this. And this is why they all have problem recruiting talented people from other nations (well, except America, for now).

  38. Neal says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Interesting.
    Of course, laws can change when circumstances change. They think it’s safe back in 2017 but that might not be true in 2018 and beyond.
    A few unanswered questions:
    1. How many were applied each of those years? That would be good to know.
    2. If not through asylum, are there other ways to stay in Canada (marriage? family reunification?) How many Afrikaners became Canadian each year through all the methods?
    3. America is notoriously bad at controlling illegal immigrants, is Canada the same? How tough would it be for an Afrikaner to become an illegal immigrant and won’t go back to S. Africa ever? Or is back to a deathtrap in S. Africa inevitable as implied by everyone.

  39. @Neal

    Illegal immigrants that thrive in America thrive because they have support systems: relatives and organizations that particularly look out for their interests. This is especially true of Hispanics. This is not true of Afrikaaners, especially the type which would be looking to seek asylum. As for those “with means”, yes, they already have a variety of backup plans.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if virtue signaling governments in the West are especially fond of banishing Afrikaaners to the really rather miserable and dangerous S. Africa. Poor whites really are one of the greatest losers in the stupid identity games of today.

    If I was one of those Afrikaaners, I’d seriously consider EE or Russia. Its more complicated, though, because a lot of them really love Africa and want to stay in the continent, but even for those, I can’t imagine staying in S. Africa. I’d go to a more functional state in Africa.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    , @Pericles
  40. @Daniel Chieh

    Didn’t a candidate for Tory PM in Oz also speak about taking them in before being shot down by a unified (mostly) media and political class? Curiously enough, the best reporter on SA in the Western press is an ethnic Chinese – Frank Chung – working in the Australian MSM. Sort of shocking that you’d have to get to a non-white person to write fairly about such a topic because the vast majority of white reporters are so incredibly toxic human garbage.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  41. @Thulean Friend

    Can’t imagine how African-style kleptocracy – which is really what increasingly defines the ANC governing style with increasing threats of various forms of capital seizure(land expropriation without compensation, think it’d just stop there?) will end in anything positive or stable.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  42. Okechukwu says:
    @German_reader

    Forget about fantasy genocides and focus on the actual, tangible genocide committed by you Germans in South West Africa. That was the dress rehearsal for your Nazi atrocities.

  43. anon[395] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    I would design a program giving them special legal status and property rights, in exchange for payment. If for a price like $500,000 payment (to filter out poorer ones), they are given a special kind of citizenship and a land contract, including freedom from all tax for a lifetime? Maybe it would be attractive?

    Realistically, this offer will be attractive to mobsters and criminals of the world, who “made it” and want to get out of the game to enjoy their money. Good luck designing bureaucratic organization that will sort Elon Musk types from the war lord and drug lord types.

  44. @Neal

    (((Occupied))) Australia resists granting refugee status to Whites, even if (perhaps especially if) they are facing genocide.

    “The Jewish War on White Australia:
    Refugee Policy and the African Crime Plague, Part 2″

    [EXCERPT]:

    “…As a result of this concerted campaign by Jewish activists to transform Australia’s immigration and refugee policies — ostensibly to prevent another ‘Holocaust’ — White Australians are increasingly forced to live under the threat of South African-style violent crime. Thanks to the increased ‘diversity’ triggered by the Jewish-led overthrow of the White Australia policy, and virtual commandeering of Australia’s immigration and refugee polices, Jewish activist and lawyer Ruth Barson is now confident that: “The chances of the Holocaust occurring in Australia today are remote,” but she cautions that history shows Jews are never truly safe, and consequently, “we should have no tolerance for even the shadows of racism and xenophobia. These are dangerous in any guise….”

    — ( https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2016/06/08/the-jewish-war-on-white-australia-refugee-policy-and-the-african-crime-plague-part-2/ )

  45. Okechukwu says:

    Your elites want you dead.

    They’re right and you’re wrong. There’s no white genocide in South Africa. Do you know what the word means?

    Jews constitute more than a third of American billionaires, despite making up about 2% of the American population.

    But somehow I don’t see WaPo ever making this point.

    Stupid comparison.

    Can’t do without the mandatory Drumpf dig.

    Trump’s own embassy in South Africa dug even harder:

    US Embassy in South Africa rejects Trump tweet: report

    “Some journalists and lobby groups have simplified complex land disputes to serve their own ends,” the cable read, according to Foreign Policy.

    The memo added that political officers for the embassy found “no evidence that murders on farms specifically target white people or are politically motivated.”

    “Farmers suggested that they are more vulnerable to violence because of the remoteness of the farms and inadequate responses of law enforcement agencies, but they also noted that farm violence has never resulted in any kind of land seizure,” the cable stated, according to Foreign Policy.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/404224-us-embassy-in-south-africa-refutes-trump-tweet-report

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  46. Okechukwu says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Can’t imagine how African-style kleptocracy – which is really what increasingly defines the ANC governing style with increasing threats of various forms of capital seizure(land expropriation without compensation, think it’d just stop there?) will end in anything positive or stable.

    Well you Chinese certainly conducted your own land expropriation without compensation, with the added bonus of a bullet to each landlord’s head.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  47. @Okechukwu

    I agree that Tillerson didn’t do near enough to purge the State Department. And you need to be deported to Nigeria.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  48. @Daniel Chieh

    I’d go to a more functional state in Africa.

    I know they’d be spoiled for choice, but could you give us a few concrete suggestions (not only of functional states, but ones that would welcome white “racist” farmers).

  49. LondonBob says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I would guess the Jewish population of the US to be well above two percent. John Owen Beatty in ‘Iron Curtain over America’.

    In 1937, Jews constituted less than 4 percent of the American people, but during the 7-year period following (1937-43), net Jewish immigration to the United States ranged between 25 and 77 percent of total net immigration to this country. For the 36-year period, 1908-43, net Jewish immigration constituted 14 percent of the total. The population of the Jewish population has increased twenty-one-fold during the same period.

    From the Committee of the Judiciary of the Senate’s report.

    The Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate (op. cit., p. 842), however, accepts the World Almanac figure of 15,713,638 Jews of religious affiliation in the world and summarizes thus: “statistics indicate that over 50 percent of the World Jewish population is now residing in the Western Hemisphere” (op. cit., p. 21 ), i.e., at least 8,000,000. Since some three-fourths of a million Jews live in other North and South American countries besides the United States, the number of Jews known to be in the United States may be placed at a minimum of about 7,250,000. Jews unaffiliated with organizations whose members are counted, illegal entrants, etc., may place the total number in the neighborhood of 10,000,000. This likely figure would justify the frequently heard statement that more than half of the Jews of the world are in the United States.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  50. neutral says:
    @Okechukwu

    How many whites are there now in Namibia and how many blacks are there? Clearly no genocide happened there. Now compare the black hordes swarming into Europe and the number of whites in Africa. Whites are vanishing, blacks are not, it is clear where the genocide is.

    • Replies: @songbird
  51. Pericles says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If I was one of those Afrikaaners, I’d seriously consider EE or Russia. Its more complicated, though, because a lot of them really love Africa and want to stay in the continent, but even for those, I can’t imagine staying in S. Africa. I’d go to a more functional state in Africa.

    I’d go for full partition, forced migrations and a big beautiful wall. Western Cape is reasonably White, for instance, though it’s the anglo sort of White (cuck/globalist/traitor). Or perhaps the Free State, which is old Boer country, but seems less defensible and has few Whites.

    Partition is the way it should have been done to begin with. Might have avoided upcoming SA civil war and/or genocide.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Daniel Chieh
  52. iffen says:
    @Pericles

    Partition is the way it should have been done to begin with.

    They did have a partition of a sort, but like the US and many European countries they voluntarily accepted millions of unskilled migrants for labor exploitation.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  53. @for-the-record

    I would guess the Jewish population of the US to be well above two percent.

    In that case you’d better send in a correction to Wiki:

    Core Jewish population — 5,700,000

    Enlarged Jewish population — 7,282,000

    The core population is less than 2 percent, the enlarged population 2.2%.

  54. songbird says:
    @neutral

    Clearly no genocide happened there.

    Except, of course, for the Bantu mercilessly killing the Bushmen and raping their women, and pushing the few surviviors into hostile environments, like the Kalahari Desert.

  55. @Anonymous

    My family would be DELIGHTED and RELIEVED to see 100,000 of them settle here in Los Angeles. Or more. Please come on over.

    (Though obviously they’d be wise to settle elsewhere in the USA if they come here at all.)

  56. @for-the-record

    Rwanda is popular as far as I’m aware, though I also think its way too reliant on just on Paul Kagame.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  57. @Okechukwu

    That was more than a century ago, and the “continuity thesis” (Herero “genocide” as precursor to Nazism) is mostly nonsense, just a pretext for grievance-mongering Africans and self-hating whites to agitate for African mass immigration and yet more white self-flagellation. Doesn’t work on me.

  58. @Okechukwu

    I’m not a commie and mistakes should be avoided, not emulated.

    • Replies: @Hanoodtroll
  59. @Neal

    I’ll take all the Afrikaners and all the Boers, legal or illegal. Come on over, brothers, we need you.

  60. @Pericles

    Its not too realistic these days, short of rather silly efforts like playing one African faction off other(mind you, at least some of that is genuine support for a local faction). But I think that after elite abandonment happened, there wasn’t a lot to be done besides emigration of some sort, or explicitly hoping for some sort of outside assistance.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  61. Jayce says:
    @German_reader

    the “continuity thesis” (Herero “genocide” as precursor to Nazism)

    At least Thomas Pynchon was able to milk some decent material out of it.

  62. @Neal

    The basic issues of King Dollar are:

    1 – The US conducts monetary policy in response to its domestic economic needs, not global needs (see for instance how the emerging markets are now submerging).

    2 – While the US Federal Reserve can supply unlimited liquidity in a crisis, it is constrained both legally and politically. Bernanke did supply liquidity to foreign banks, but Volcker refused which resulted in the 1982 Latin American banking crisis.

    3 – The US abuses the Dollar (and its dominant capital markets) to punish foreign entities it does not like.

    If another national currency (or supranational, e.g. the Euro) takes the Dollar’s place, then yes all the same issues are reproduced.

    I agree that the gold standard, at least the pre-1914 model of full convertibility in not just international exchanges but also domestically, is not worth the trouble.

    But it’s attractive for international exchange since it’s not under the control of any single actor. The theoretical ideal would be the Bancor, but I don’t think that can ever work. Gold for international exchange only doesn’t really place any more restrictions on countries than the Dollar standard does…except for the United States itself.

    Today if your country is hemorrhaging Dollars you’re forced to undertake policy measures like hiking interest rates, austerity, capital controls, etc. The same would be true under a gold exchange standard, but countries could still pursue expansive domestic monetary policies. It’s true that major gold producing countries would be privileged, but new gold production is fairly trivial in relation to existing gold stocks.

    China, incidentally, seems to flirt with this idea. Their new petroyuan future contracts are redeemable in gold.

  63. @German_reader

    Okechukwu is on the right track, but has his dates wrong. As we know, Germans are Huns (as was suddenly discovered in 1914). Thus the genocidal proclivities of the Germans date to at least Attila the Hun, and probably even further back based on how old the Great Wall is.

    German austerity policy applied to Greece is simply German genocidalism suited for 21st century politics.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
  64. @Okechukwu

    Anyone who makes light of race-targeted intimidation and brutality, wants to commit such atrocities himself or at least enjoys it and sides with the perpetrators. The genocidal fantasies are yours, I.e. fantasies about committing genocide against us.

  65. @LondonBob

    Interesting. Fair point.

    But the us population, including tens of millions of illegal aliens, is probably north of 350 million. (We have been hearing for 25 years that are 10-12 million illegal aliens here, and there are probably nearly that many illegal aliens in California alone.).

    That would mean that ten million Jews constituted about 2.9% of the population. And, as some Jews lament (some of my acquaintance), “too few” Jews marry other Jews and propagate the Tribe. Between race-mixing, homosexuality, and low fertility rate among secular and Reformed and even Conservative Jews, there aren’t that many straight Jews having kids with other Jews except the orthodox.

    Anyway, nonOrthodox Jews just aren’t perpetuating the Jewish genes much (and those supposed Jewish genes are heavily white european, usually Italian, already).

    So that figure of ten million Jews in the USA includes the kids of my Ashkenazi Jewish former roommate, who is married to a Latina. His kids are likely less than 25% Semitic/Middle Eastern.

    Does it also include the kids of my Ashkenazi/sepphardic Jewish acquaintance in LA who is married to an African? His kids are likely less than 50% Semitic/Middle Eastern.

    On the other hand, if these barely Jewish Jews identify as Jewish and continue to benefit from and perpetuate the cycle of Jewish favoritism, a people who look somewhat like what we conceive of as Jews will still be among those on top of the heap economically, politically, and culturally.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  66. @Daniel Chieh

    Rwanda is popular as far as I’m aware,

    But don’t they’ve got a lot of excess farm land to make available to the Boers.c

    • LOL: Okechukwu
  67. Raymie says:
    @Dmitry

    Lol really? Russia still gives scholarships to useless Africans to come and study in Moscow? I thought they ended all the gibsmedat to Africa and that worthless Lumumba University (named after a communist Bantu who was supported by the USSR for no particular reason) when the iron curtain fell.

    But I agree, Arab students in Eastern Europe are the worst shitbags. I’ve seen Arab students in Ukraine, sullenly glaring at people and sexually harrassing local women. Kiev and Kharkov are full of these cunts. MENA doesn’t send its best, clearly.

  68. Okechukwu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I agree that Tillerson didn’t do near enough to purge the State Department. And you need to be deported to Nigeria.

    Tillerson is a charter member of the permanent American establishment that runs the country as presidential administrations come and go. The government subsidiary of this establishment is sometimes referred to as the Deep State. This permanent bureaucracy took pains to correct Trump and let the world know that it is not the policy of the United States to promulgate inane white nationalist talking points that bear no relationship to reality.

    The United States isn’t Russia where one man can hijack power for 30 years. Trump will be gone, at the latest, in January 2021. It’s very important for us to ensure effective and rational governance by checking and balancing Trump until he is finally removed from office. South Africa provides an excellent example of such mitigation. There you had Trumpian bullshit that was countered by official US policy which rejects white nationalism and fully supports land reform in South Africa.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @iffen
  69. LondonBob says:
    @RadicalCenter

    I expect the Jewish population has now declined as a percentage but I would guess the high point was probably in the sixties where it might have been as much as five percent. Jews are smart and nepotistic but you can’t dominate whole sectors without the numbers.

  70. Okechukwu says:
    @German_reader

    That was more than a century ago, and the “continuity thesis” (Herero “genocide” as precursor to Nazism) is mostly nonsense, just a pretext for grievance-mongering Africans and self-hating whites to agitate for African mass immigration and yet more white self-flagellation.

    Germany is one of the whitest countries in the world. I own a home in Germany, and there are no black people in or around my neighborhood. There are few if any black people off the beaten path outside of major metropolitan areas. And this year I spent 2 weeks in St. Peter-Ording. Other than one or two mixed-race kids, I was the only person of color there throughout the two weeks. So your alarmism is unjustified.

    Doesn’t work on me.

    Yeah, well, you Germans are indoctrinated from the womb to reject the ideology you espouse here. My poor wife flinches whenever she hears the word “Jew.” I’m trying to deprogram her.

  71. @Okechukwu

    I’ll go to bat for the interloper here and note that while the plight of the Afrikaners (and, to a lesser extent, Anglo South Africans) is unfortunate, it doesn’t seem to be an appropriate policy goal of the United States government to protect them–unless the objective is to orchestrate a coup d’etat and install a new apartheid state which is an American client state. And the benefits of such an operation are surely not worth the costs.

    Sad as it is to say, the gradual disappearance of white Africa is an opportunity for surviving white countries. Australia has benefited considerably from the inflow of South Africans, particularly Western Australia. The US could use the “refugee” policy to place Afrikaners in Congressional swing districts.

    Even if we do actually capture the US government (or some other government) and install an alt-right regime (which will necessarily entail some fairly radical domestic purges, including for instance most people who currently work for President Trump), I don’t believe it would serve our strategic interests to promote alt-right internationalism.

    Saving whites worldwide is emotionally attractive, but it’s a maximalist messianic ideology without the benefit of global appeal. One can try promoting “pan-nationalism” instead, but that obviously will never appeal to racially inferior populations (see for instance the interloper) who can only see that as opposed to their interests.

    Take Hungary for instance. They deported Richard Spencer. Ridiculous, but doing so arguably served the strategic interests and foreign policy goals of Hungary.

    That said, there’s no issue with President Trump’s tweets on this either. They are useful propaganda and frequently assist American foreign policy.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  72. Pericles says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    The main obstacle, a lack of will apart, is likely that the US and UK would automatically take the negro side and virtuously blockade, boycot, destroy any attempted White South Africa. In a different timeline, what if SA instead of capitulating had waited a decade and made a deal with China? Oh well.

    A military conflict with Black SA is not obviously a white loss, even if the blekks have some JAS-39 Gripen jets. Retreat to a defensible border and keep your side white. Guerilla infiltration gets difficult when they can’t blend into the population. Invite the UN to police the border permanently a la Cyprus.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Peasant
  73. @Pericles

    Depends on what price a Boerstaat is willing to pay, as can be seen in North Korea.

    South Africa would likely still be around today if not for the Anglo South Africans and, of course, the Oppenheimers. If not for Anglo voters for instance the KP would’ve replaced the National Party as the governing party of the country:

    In the local elections of 1987 the Conservative Party won 60 municipalities out of 110 in the Transvaal, and 1 out of 4 in the Orange Free State. The Conservative Party received 45% of the Afrikaner votes and 7.5% of the English-speaking votes. It won 50% of the Afrikaner vote in the Transvaal and Free State provinces in the 1989 general elections. It won 40% of the White popular vote in the Transvaal, and 45% in the Orange Free State provinces in the 1989 elections.

    There is only one documented instance in history of blacks militarily defeating whites decisively, which is Haiti. Other than that they’ve only managed to win a few battles here and there (most famously Isandlwana).

    Let’s not forget that the whites of Rhodesia (4.5% of the population) were defeated politically by the UK and South Africa (which stabbed them in the back in a failed effort to save their own skins). Militarily they were mostly successful despite their more numerous enemies being supported by the Soviet Union, Red China, and many neighboring states. And this was without resorting to harsher measures like concentration camps, which surely could’ve been instituted.

    Did blacks ever even defeat Arabs anywhere other than Zanzibar?

    We are really talking about the most incompetent people in the entire world outside of very minor groups like abos, pygmies, hottentots, etc.

    If a Boerstaat were willing to pay the price, it would take outside military invention to defeat them. Admittedly things are so bad in the West I could see some idiot Western government doing just that.

  74. iffen says:
    @Okechukwu

    rational governance by checking and balancing Trump

    Whoa! And people say blacks can’t do the American democracy thing.

  75. Okechukwu says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I’ll go to bat for the interloper here and note that while the plight of the Afrikaners (and, to a lesser extent, Anglo South Africans) is unfortunate

    No. The plight of black South Africans stripped of their land and crammed into townships is what’s unfortunate. White South Africans continue to control a wildly disproportionate share of the wealth and resources of South Africa. The real world is about facts. So outside of echo-chambers like Karlin’s blog here, facts will always juxtapose against propaganda, and facts will always prevail.

    unless the objective is to orchestrate a coup d’etat and install a new apartheid state which is an American client state.

    Impossible. This ain’t the 1950′s, bro. Whoever wants to undertake such a project would have to somehow make themselves bullet and bomb-proof.

    Sad as it is to say, the gradual disappearance of white Africa is an opportunity for surviving white countries.

    I think you mean the gradual disappearance of white supremacist regimes in Africa. Whites are not banned from Africa.

    Here are whites enjoying themselves in Zambia:

    Even if we do actually capture the US government (or some other government) and install an alt-right regime (which will necessarily entail some fairly radical domestic purges, including for instance most people who currently work for President Trump), I don’t believe it would serve our strategic interests to promote alt-right internationalism

    First try to attract more than a handful of alt-rightists to your rallies before you start dreaming of taking over America.

    Saving whites worldwide is emotionally attractive, but it’s a maximalist messianic ideology without the benefit of global appeal.

    Whites don’t need saving, except maybe from themselves. Most white people on this planet are currently targeted with nuclear weapons that are on hair-trigger alert. As far as I can tell, there are no nuclear weapons targeting Africa. In the eventuality that white people destroy themselves, and if nuclear fallout doesn’t destroy the rest of humanity, non-whites will be tasked with carrying on the human project.

    Take Hungary for instance. They deported Richard Spencer.

    A wise decision if they want to be considered a serious country.

    That said, there’s no issue with President Trump’s tweets on this either. They are useful propaganda and frequently assist American foreign policy.

    His tweets and his utterances serve only to damage US interests in Africa. The next president will have a lot of cleaning up to do.

  76. DFH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    There is only one documented instance in history of blacks militarily defeating whites decisively, which is Haiti.

    Disease, not blacks

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  77. Pericles says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Black armies are more than anything convenient ways of looting and killing civilians rather than actual fighting forces. What famous battles were there in ‘Africa’s world war’ in Congo?

    Meanwhile, totally non-racist SA mercenaries have routinely destroyed their opposition like in Sierra Leone or Boko Haram in Nigeria.

  78. @Okechukwu

    No. The plight of black South Africans stripped of their land and crammed into townships is what’s unfortunate. White South Africans continue to control a wildly disproportionate share of the wealth and resources of South Africa. The real world is about facts. So outside of echo-chambers like Karlin’s blog here, facts will always juxtapose against propaganda, and facts will always prevail.

    The fact is that civilized people are now ruled over by an inferior, hostile race not even fit to govern themselves. That is quite unfortunate for them, and doubly so because the West played a role in causing this to happen.

    They continue to control a “disproportionate” share of South Africa’s wealth because South Africa is still a capitalist country. In situations where blacks must compete in market economies alongside civilized races they end up with very few assets and meager incomes.

    Impossible. This ain’t the 1950′s, bro. Whoever wants to undertake such a project would have to somehow make themselves bullet and bomb-proof.

    Yes, of course, anything you object to is impossible. This certainly isn’t a dishonest rhetorical gambit.

    I think you mean the gradual disappearance of white supremacist regimes in Africa. Whites are not banned from Africa.

    Here are whites enjoying themselves in Zambia:

    Indeed, white Dollars are still welcome. Unfortunately, owing to the gross deficiencies of your race, permanent settlement of whites (or civilized non-whites, as Indians have discovered to their misfortune) in Africa requires the suppression of your kind.

    First try to attract more than a handful of alt-rightists to your rallies before you start dreaming of taking over America.
    [...]
    Whites don’t need saving, except maybe from themselves. Most white people on this planet are currently targeted with nuclear weapons that are on hair-trigger alert. As far as I can tell, there are no nuclear weapons targeting Africa. In the eventuality that white people destroy themselves, and if nuclear fallout doesn’t destroy the rest of humanity, non-whites will be tasked with carrying on the human project.

    Indeed, whites do require saving from themselves. As Zimbabwe and South Africa demonstrate, along with people who vote for “Green” parties.

    His tweets and his utterances serve only to damage US interests in Africa. The next president will have a lot of cleaning up to do.

    Yes, America’s deeply vital interests in Africa. So I suppose South Africa is going to place sanctions on American corporations now?

    • LOL: Yevardian
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Okechukwu
  79. Okechukwu says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    There is only one documented instance in history of blacks militarily defeating whites decisively, which is Haiti. Other than that they’ve only managed to win a few battles here and there (most famously Isandlwana).

    You need a history lesson. There’s a reason why colonialism happened so late in Africa. There’s also a reason why whites paid and traded for slaves rather than taking them by force. Africans did indeed decisively defeat whites on numerous occasions. It was only with the introduction of the modern weapons that are still used today that whites were able to finally gain a decisive advantage. Prior to that time whites were confined to small coastal enclaves as vassals to African kings. But even after the introduction of those weapons, blacks still defeated whites. Lesotho, which is smack dab in the middle of South Africa, is a product of the military defeat of the British by Africans.

    Let’s not forget that the whites of Rhodesia (4.5% of the population) were defeated politically.

    Rhodesians were defeated militarily in the field. Near the end of the war most of Rhodesia were no-go zones for the racist forces and whites were fleeing in droves, aptly called “the chicken run” by the Rhodesians themselves. Britain and the USA actually saved Rhodesia from the kind of defeat that would have seen Rhodesian war criminals lined up and shot. The Lancaster House Accords was a face-saving mechanism that allowed the whites to surrender without appearing to do so.

    Did blacks ever even defeat Arabs anywhere other than Zanzibar?

    What Arab army was dumb enough to attack powerful African kingdoms?

    If a Boerstaat were willing to pay the price, it would take outside military invention to defeat them.

    Keep dreaming. Each and every one of them would be wiped out.

  80. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    South Africa appears very developed already by the 1970s.

    When you see this, you might sense how always on the wrong side of history, and in its choice of allies, Soviet foreign policy was.

  81. Pericles says:
    @iffen

    Wisdom for the ages: Pick your own damn cotton.

  82. Okechukwu says:
    @DFH

    Disease, not blacks.

    LOL. Another delusional idiot. Whites always scramble for excuses whenever they get their asses kicked. Funny how “diseases” weren’t killing the whites already in Haiti but somehow white soldiers were vulnerable?

    These people don’t look diseased to me:

    Nor do these people:

    Here are the facts. An army of black ex-slaves out-thought, out-stratagized and out-fought 3 of the strongest white armies in the world. They didn’t just defeat the French, they also defeated the British and Spanish. As a matter of fact, Haiti is one of the founders of the United States. For after his humiliating defeat, Napoleon fled the region and essentially ceded the Louisiana Territory, which comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  83. @Okechukwu

    There’s a reason why colonialism happened so late in Africa.

    That was mostly due to disease, before medical advances in the 19th century (e.g. quinine), the casualty rates were just too high to make penetration of the interior possible. It had nothing to do with the martial prowess or complexity of African kingdoms, which actually were far more primitive than the various states the British conquered in India during the mid-late 18th century.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  84. @Okechukwu

    Lesotho–well done, Africans.

    And it appears that after defeating the British, the military juggernauts of Lesotho went on to lose to the Boers…and then appealed to Queen Victoria to become a British protectorate.

    What Arabs attacked Africans? The ones from Oman.

    Now that Africans can purchase modern weapons (from whites–and now the yellows) I look forward to future inspiring tales of African martial prowess.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  85. @Okechukwu

    As a matter of fact, Haiti is one of the founders of the United States. For after his humiliating defeat, Napoleon fled the region and essentially ceded the Louisiana Territory, which comprises about 1/3 of the United States.

    we wuz amerikangz

  86. Okechukwu says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The fact is that civilized people are now ruled over by an inferior, hostile race not even fit to govern themselves. That is quite unfortunate for them, and doubly so because the West played a role in causing this to happen.

    And this is the mentality that got you hairy apes thrown out of Africa with your tails between your legs. You are not civilized, and you are not superior. I cannot imagine any circumstance under which you would be considered more civilized than me or superior to me.

    They continue to control a “disproportionate” share of South Africa’s wealth because South Africa is still a capitalist country. In situations where blacks must compete in market economies alongside civilized races they end up with very few assets and meager incomes.

    No, they continue to dominate because under the old racist regime even a blithering idiot like you would have automatic privilege and status over someone like me by virtue of nothing more than your race. But all of that is changing, as inexorably the wealth and resources of South Africa will increasingly shift to its black majority.

    Indeed, white Dollars are still welcome. Unfortunately, owing to the gross deficiencies of your race, permanent settlement of whites (or civilized non-whites, as Indians have discovered to their misfortune) in Africa requires the suppression of your kind.

    You mean the same whites that up to about a hundred years ago believed that taking a bath was dangerous. The same whites that dumped their own feces and urine out of windows and onto the streets well into the 19th century. The same whites that treated every malady with bloodletting and superstitious hocus pocus. The same whites that don’t have a single sophisticated ancient artifact or ancient manuscript because they were marauding barbarian savages for most of human history. LOL. Okay.

    Indeed, whites do require saving from themselves. As Zimbabwe and South Africa demonstrate, along with people who vote for “Green” parties.

    First it was your own filth that nearly wiped you out during the black plague. Now it’s your own weapons that are pointed at yourselves. All it takes is one accident or one drunkard to get the show started. You are worried about the wrong things, bro. You should be more worried about self-annihilation.

    Yes, America’s deeply vital interests in Africa. So I suppose South Africa is going to place sanctions on American corporations now?

    If America didn’t think it had vital interests in Africa, it wouldn’t be there. It wouldn’t have diplomatic missions there and host African diplomatic missions here. It wouldn’t send aid and technical assistance there. It wouldn’t welcome African immigrants and students. It wouldn’t have Africa experts, Africa bureaus and Under-Secretaries for African Affairs, etc,.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  87. And this is the mentality that got you hairy apes thrown out of Africa with your tails between your legs. You are not civilized, and you are not superior. I cannot imagine any circumstance under which you would be considered more civilized than me or superior to me.

    Thrown out? I wasn’t aware you negroids had developed catapults.

    I understand that with your deficient brain it is difficult for you to imagine things that you did not personally experience more than fifteen minutes ago, but fortunately I have a galaxy brain and will graciously furnish you with an example: the immigration and customs line at Tokyo Narita.

    No, they continue to dominate because under the old racist regime even a blithering idiot like you would have automatic privilege and status over someone like me by virtue of nothing more than your race. But all of that is changing, as inexorably the wealth and resources of South Africa will increasingly shift to its black majority.

    I suppose I should thank my lucky stars I live in the racist white supremacist country of the United $naKKKes of AmeriKKKa, where my white privilege allows me to live like a king (or should I say kang?) off the sweat of the numismatic negro.

    Best of luck to the jigaboos of South Africa in their Zimbabwe 2 project. Soon they will no doubt live as well as their compatriots in that benighted land. You will of course leap at the opportunity to join them in their bounty.

    You mean the same whites that up to about a hundred years ago believed that taking a bath was dangerous. The same whites that dumped their own feces and urine out of windows and onto the streets well into the 19th century. The same whites that treated every malady with bloodletting and superstitious hocus pocus. The same whites that don’t have a single sophisticated ancient artifact or ancient manuscript because they were marauding barbarian savages for most of human history. LOL. Okay.

    Well, regrettably we lacked the foresight of Africans who had the wisdom to never build cities, let alone live in them. We foolishly followed the example set in the Near East, when we should’ve reached for the stars and learned from the kangz who wisely continued living in the trees with their close cousins the monkeys.

    And, frankly, as a hocus pocus white marauding barbarian savage I have to admit I’m very jealous of the gorgeous wealth, depth, and breadth of ancient African artifacts and manuscripts.

    First it was your own filth that nearly wiped you out during the black plague. Now it’s your own weapons that are pointed at yourselves. All it takes is one accident or one drunkard to get the show started. You are worried about the wrong things, bro. You should be more worried about self-annihilation.

    To the contrary–I’m still quite worried about the filth of the black plague. ;)

    If America didn’t think it had vital interests in Africa, it wouldn’t be there. It wouldn’t have diplomatic missions there and host African diplomatic missions here. It wouldn’t send aid and technical assistance there. It wouldn’t welcome African immigrants and students. It wouldn’t have Africa experts, Africa bureaus and Under-Secretaries for African Affairs, etc,.

    America is the best governed country in the world and has never been better governed.

  88. Okechukwu says:
    @German_reader

    That was mostly due to disease, before medical advances in the 19th century (e.g. quinine), the casualty rates were just too high to make penetration of the interior possible. It had nothing to do with the martial prowess or complexity of African kingdoms, which actually were far more primitive than the various states the British conquered in India during the mid-late 18th century.

    Another historically illiterate buffoon.

    Many of the African kingdoms during the Middle Ages and beyond were more powerful than their European counterparts. These Africans weren’t no Native Americans. They were an iron-age people with strong, centralized polities that often could marshal tens of thousands of well-trained and well-armed troops vs. Europeans riven by feudalism and dark ages backwardness. Some African armies had guns, cannon and heavy cavalry. But even the less sophisticated armies had indigenous technology at least equal to anything the Europeans could field prior to the mid to late 19th century. For example, poison arrows are not less effective than flintlock rifles.

    You don’t have to guess or speculate. We have historical evidence of European armies trying to conquer African states and being defeated. This would all change when the Europeans were able to field modern weapons. In fact you can verify the impact of modern weapons by examining the fortunes of the British armies that fought the Ashanti Empire. There were 3 wars covering the early to late 1800′s, of which the British lost the first 2. But after repeating rifles, gatling machine guns, heavy artillery and rockets were introduced by the British, they finally defeated the Ashanti in the third and last war.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Peasant
    , @Karl
  89. @Okechukwu

    But even the less sophisticated armies had indigenous technology at least equal to anything the Europeans could field prior to the mid to late 19th century. For example, poison arrows are not less effective than flintlock rifles.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  90. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Did blacks ever even defeat Arabs anywhere other than Zanzibar?

    In the 6th century, Ethiopians defeated the Jews of Yemen for oppressing Christians. Ethiopians have the most non-African admixture, and are the most accomplished blacks. I’m guessing the Jews were somewhat Arab.

  91. Philip Owen says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    I am too busy to do this debate again. But there are periodically Boer enquiries about Russian farms. The Boers are the best dry land farmers in the world. The ones I know are not desperate. It’s like Chinese in Vancouver. A place for a second son or even just unmanaged ownership (in the Vancouver case certainly),

    Not too much progress was made in buying food from South Africa when Russia introduced sanctions. The slaughterhouses remained unlicensed. White South Africans don’t, on the whole, offer bribes. Brazilians do. So the Russian meat inspectors went to Brazil. About two years ago the levels of rotten meat were so high, Brazilian shipments were banned. One RSA slaughterhouse wanted me to sell wild game. Russia actually has a lot of its own. Caribou mostly plus imported wild boar from teh Czech Republic.

  92. Yevardian says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Australia in particular is full of liberal Angl0 South-Africans who left SA due to ‘worsening economy’.

  93. Peasant says:
    @Pericles

    ‘even if the blekks have some JAS-39 Gripen jets’

    They were laughably inapropriate for South Africa to buy and a great deal of suprise was expressed when they were. They were only bought because of the bribes offered. They are all in storage because when they were bought no maintenance contract was pursued to keep them flying and now they are essentially useless. Large scale military equipment purchases that do not include a maintenance contract (or at least a contract for the ongoing provision of spare parts) are almost unheard of.

    The pilots are kept busy flying private jets to and from Europe when the ANC bigwigs go to Switzerland to check thier bank accounts.

    Also there is no possibility of a new maintenance contract because there are no funds for it and also the South Africans have instituted affrimative action in thier pilots program which precludes the quick hiring of White pilots/technicians as a stop gap measure.

  94. Peasant says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    ‘blacks militarily defeating whites decisively, which is Haiti’

    Or rather Colonel hunger and General frost’s tropical relative Field Marshall disease did it for them. The Haitian leader was actually brought to terms then abducted and imprisoned in France. After this French troops started dying in droves and the British made the reinforcement of the island impractical.

    Realistically blacks have never defeated Whites.

  95. Peasant says:
    @Okechukwu

    He needs a history lesson?

    Are you insane?

    Whites could not colonise Africa untill they developed the germ theory of disease and understood how to combat malaria. After that they pretty much conquered Africa easily. Remember there was something of a scramble for it? Oh yeah the scramble for Africa.

    Rhodesians were never defeated militarily in the field. They had no oil and what they did have was brought into the country by ingenious methods of smuggling even after western nations launched anti smuggling patrols. With oil the Rhodesains could have fought for the next thousand years but realistically the blacks would have been beaten in a few short years. Get this- sanctions against the Rhodesian regime actually made the economy *improve*. That rat b*stard Kissinger told the Rhodesains he would stop all smuggling operations if they did not cooperate.

    ‘Whites were fleeing in droves’ no actually it is a feature of modern leftist cant to point out that untill 1979 emigration to Rhodesia was increasing all the time driven by not least Britain’s economic problems. This was supposed to show how racist Rhodesia was. Many of these people upped and left after homo-er*ctus-whoops I meant Robert Mugabe assumed power.

    ‘Britain and the USA actually saved Rhodesia from the kind of defeat that would have seen Rhodesian war criminals lined up and shot.’

    No. For one thing the country was still run by Whites and this would have led to its immediate implosion. The only real war criminal was Mugabe who in true African fashion sent a brigade sized force to slaughter hsi tribal enemies. It is well attested that Ian Smith was not touched by Mugabe after the war (although his farm was stolen eventually 30 years after) because he was so popular among the black masses and that he freely went about in the streets and was often applauded.

    ‘What Arab army was dumb enough to attack powerful African kingdoms?’

    You can’t be serious. Have you ever heard of the Arab slave trade? They took tens of millions of Africans to Arabia, chopped off their balls to stop them from breeding and used them for the lowliest most degrading work possible. The women were used as sex slaves. The Arabs used to buy slaves (just like the Whites used to) untill they realised they could just go in and take them.

    ‘Keep dreaming. Each and every one of them would be wiped out.’

    By who? Have you actually seen the combat performance of African armies? Just to amuse yourself look at the combat footage of the Liberian civil war. There is not an African tribe, state or army that could face a White equivalent and win. There is a reason Why African states hire White mercenaries to fight thier conflicts for them.

    You are either mentally ill or a troll

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  96. Peasant says:
    @Okechukwu

    Would you care to refute or at least address his point? After Europeans dealt with the disease making the colonisation of Africa impossible Africa was colonised easily. It had nothing to do with the supposed martial prowess of African ‘states’.

  97. @Thorfinnsson

    An interesting exploration of the power of simplicity: I think its arguable that the wheellock was fundamentally superior to the flintlock, but the simplicity of the flintlock design made it possible to mass produce. Quantity does indeed have its own quality.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  98. Okechukwu says:
    @Peasant

    Are you insane?

    I blame Western education for your ignorance. Although I’m a product of the same system, I was able to go beyond what’s taught (or not taught) in the classroom.

    To get you started on your education, look for Warfare in Atlantic Africa by John K. Thornton and The Africa Wars by Chris Peers. Wikipedia also has a decent article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_military_systems_to_1800

    Whites could not colonise Africa untill they developed the germ theory of disease and understood how to combat malaria. After that they pretty much conquered Africa easily. Remember there was something of a scramble for it? Oh yeah the scramble for Africa.

    Again, many of the African empires (Mali-Songhai, Fulbe, Mande, Kongo, Zulu, Zimbabwe, Masai, Kanem-Bornu, Mutapa, Niger empires, Sudan, etc.) had large well organized armies with fierce warriors. Some had heavy cavalry, guns and artillery, in addition to indigenous technology which at the time was equal to any weapons systems in the world in terms of their efficacy. So no one was going to colonize those people at that time. Often they were better fed, better led, better organized and better equipped than their ragtag feudal European counterparts.

    Europeans wouldn’t be trying to colonize Africa in the first place unless they had an overwhelming superiority in weapons. The Zulus, unsophisticated relative to other African armies, and wielding only spears, massacred 1300 British elite troops that were armed with gatling guns, artillery and repeating rifles. How much worse would that massacre have been if the British showed up with just muskets and swords? Well, they wouldn’t have had the balls to show up with just muskets and swords. They would’ve stayed away.

    Prior to the mid to late 19th century African and European weapons technology were at relative parity. Indigenous African technology and tactics could cope with European technology and tactics, plus those same Europeans and their weapons and tactics were not unfamiliar to Africans who had been trading with them for hundreds of years. Africans also traded with Arabs and Ottoman Turks. However, when “the scramble for Africa” began, Europeans put a total arms embargo on Africa. In other words, Africans couldn’t trade for these newer, more lethal weapons that were made possible by the industrial revolution. If disease was the only impediment (now solved) why did the Europeans make a pact among themselves at the Berlin Conference to keep modern weapons out of African hands?

    The first serious European entrant into Africa was Portugal, which arrived in the in the 15th century. Now, how exactly were they supposed to conquer these people?

    The Portuguese in Africa, 1415–1600

    From the time of their arrival on the shores of Sierra Leone in 1460, and until their gradual decline as leaders in world exploration in the sixteenth century, the Portuguese had an ambiguous relationship with their African trading partners. Disembarking at cities that were as large, complex, and technologically advanced as Lisbon at the time, the Portuguese actually experienced far less culture shock than we might expect. In fact, they encountered urban centers in West Africa comparable to those back in Europe, governed by elaborate dynasties, organized around apprenticeship-based artistic guilds, and with agricultural systems capable of feeding their large populaces. Many African cities were even deemed to be larger, more hygienic, and better organized than those of Europe

    https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/agex/hd_agex.htm

    Rhodesians were never defeated militarily in the field.

    Give it a rest, you imbecile. Rhodesia was defeated. Ordinary Rhodesians couldn’t even leave their homes without a military escort. Practically the entire country was a no-go zone for racist forces and the freedom fighters were shooting down their airliners at their whim. ZANLA and ZIPRA were wreaking havoc with guerrilla tactics while ZIPRA was poised to invade conventionally. At that stage of the conflict ZIPRA was materially better equipped than the Rhodesian armed forces. So the game was up. The Rhodesians were done, which is why they surrendered.

    ‘Whites were fleeing in droves’ no actually it is a feature of modern leftist cant to point out that untill 1979 emigration to Rhodesia was increasing all the time driven by not least Britain’s economic problems. This was supposed to show how racist Rhodesia was. Many of these people upped and left after homo-er*ctus-whoops I meant Robert Mugabe assumed power.

    In desperation, the Rhodesians used all kinds of inducements to attract white emigres. This resulted in undesirable human refuse going to Rhodesia, including racist soldier of fortune types. But the real Rhodesians, who had set down roots and made their apartheid system work, were fleeing.

    It is well attested that Ian Smith was not touched by Mugabe after the war (although his farm was stolen eventually 30 years after) because he was so popular among the black masses and that he freely went about in the streets and was often applauded.

    Africans are magnanimous in victory. The old guy was harmless and his stolen land was returned to the people.

    You can’t be serious. Have you ever heard of the Arab slave trade?

    The key word is trade. Notice they didn’t conquer African kingdoms and take slaves by force like they did in India. Much like the Europeans, the Arabs had to trade for slaves because the African states were too strong. Slaves are a commodity. The most profitable slaves are those obtained for free as war booty. To actually pay for slaves means you don’t have the military capability vis-a-vis your opponent to simply take them.

    By who? Have you actually seen the combat performance of African armies? Just to amuse yourself look at the combat footage of the Liberian civil war. There is not an African tribe, state or army that could face a White equivalent and win. There is a reason Why African states hire White mercenaries to fight thier conflicts for them.

    We weren’t discussing Liberian rebel groups with their conscript child soldiers. We were discussing pre-colonial African armies. Many were strong enough to conquer Europe, particularly as Europe was a balkanized collection of fiefdoms, warring nobles and antagonistic city states.

    There is a reason Why African states hire White mercenaries to fight thier conflicts for them.

    Those aren’t real wars. Those mercenaries perform the same function that Blackwater performed for the United States and Wagner Group performs for Russia. They fill a niche that professional militaries don’t want to mess with.

    • Replies: @Peasant
    , @songbird
  99. Bliss should go with Okechukwuyusha when he is deported back to Nigeria, they make a nice couple.

  100. Okechukwu says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    And it appears that after defeating the British, the military juggernauts of Lesotho went on to lose to the Boers…and then appealed to Queen Victoria to become a British protectorate.

    Wrong again, dummy. The Basotho (now Lesotho) defeat of the British happened many decades after their wars with the Boers.

  101. @Daniel Chieh

    Judging by the massive improvement in China’s agricultural output post 1949 – admittedly with the exception of the early 1960s years – I don’t see how this was a mistake.

  102. @Okechukwu

    And yet for some reason you married a hairy German ape as opposed to a fellow Wakandan.

    Though in all likelihood that’s another one of your fairytales along with hiring security in Moscow, employing dozens of whites, and We Wuz Amerikangz.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    , @Okechukwu
  103. Yevardian says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I suspect this commenter is some fellow miscreant posing as a Nigerian. Best troll on Unz since Art Deco.

    • Replies: @Peasant
  104. Peasant says:
    @Okechukwu

    Ah I see you are just an afrocentric troll. You need to refute my points. Why were Arabs running all over Africa enslaving blacks freely at will? A slave trade which Whites ended. Were Arabs at the time more militarily advanced than Europeans?

    ‘Some had heavy cavalry, guns and artillery,’

    How many foundaries were there in sub saharan Africa? Africans never managed to invent the wheel. How much ammunition was produced in sub saharan Africa? Where did these weapons come from? Trade with Whites and Arabs. They certainly were not native to black Africa.

    Do you care to refute my point about the oil situation in Rhodesia? There was no Aparthied system in Rhodesia. There were black professionals and black property owners could vote. The emigrants to Rhodesia which were going there right up untill the last moment were White families looking to escape a Britain being buffeted by the International Monetary Fund.

    Ian Smith was tremendously popular among ordinary Zimbabweans although I will note that did not stop the black elite stealing his farm as they cannabalised the country under hyper-inflation.

    I mentioned the Liberian civil war because you said that any White ethnostates in modern Africa would be crushed by blacks which they most emphatically would not. Liberia is a good example of quasi westernised blacks with lots of materials to trade for arms (diamonds etc) whose civil war was not how shall we say exactly a great example of martial valour. Please don’t misrepresent my opinions.

    Im glad that you finally found out the western education system was bogus. I too realised that eventually. But you have to understand you are being taken for a ride. The White (and jewish) leftist academics who write about how Africans were so advanced etc do so as part of a (mainly flase) egalitarian agenda. They try to minimise Europe and increase the importance of Africa. Please underatand- no one, I repeat, no one actually believes that at any time sub saharan Africa was as developed or more developed than Europe. Even in the European dark ages when there were certain African empires with vast resource monopolies (one of them had a monopoly on salt) these were the equivalents of todays Arab with thier oil: Once the resource dries up so will the veneer of civilisation. In contrast Europe had precious few resources and was cut off from the civilisational remnants of the classical world and yet still managed to produce a grand civilisation.

    I get the feeling that growing up in the west has given you an inferiority complex. I hate people who psychoanalyse over the internet and so therefore I almost never do it but it pains me to see an otherwise intelligent black person believing false egalitarian politically driven myths put out by people who are blatantly disingenuous.

    Address my points I made in my last post rationally and do not strawman or deliberately misunderstand me.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Okechukwu
  105. Peasant says:
    @Yevardian

    But really he is not a million miles off from a genuine true beleiver afrocentrist

  106. songbird says:
    @Okechukwu

    Disembarking at cities that were as large, complex, and technologically advanced as Lisbon at the time, the Portuguese actually experienced far less culture shock than we might expect.

    It is strange how the largest city in Nigeria is named after the small seaside village where Henry the Navigator first developed his plans. Almost as if Nigerians had no concept of a port city.

    You are making progress though, now that you admit that Europeans were not very long in the interior of most of Africa. Your next step is to take responsibly for your own problems and move back to Nigeria to help solve them.

    Of course, you must also recognize the immorality of Bantu possessing land in South Africa. It is not theirs but the Bushmen’s. Even the Boer’s have a more salient claim than the Bantu. They built wells and irrigated arid land turning it into arable farmland. The population of blacks increasing about 3000% under their tutelage and benign influence.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  107. @Daniel Chieh

    An interesting thought experiment is a force of longbowmen engaging one of musketeers. In theory, the longbowmen would annihilate the musketeers. So the hooting and hollering negro in question has a point about poisoned arrows.

    The trouble is that training longbowmen is very expensive and time consuming, whereas training musketeers can be done in a few months. The typical English longbow had a draw weight of 130 pounds and men trained from childhood to use them. English monarchs passed laws requiring peasants to drill in archery and promoted archery as a national sport.

    Even as late as the 18th century Benjamin Franklin proposed reintroducing the longbow (but within a mixed force incorporating musketeers–Ben Franklin understood money).

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  108. @Thorfinnsson

    Also there’s studies suggesting that the effectiveness of Asiatic composite bows delayed the introduction of firearms in China (including a period of outright regress during the first half of the 19th century).

    Of course Africans had neither longbows nor composite bows.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Okechukwu
  109. @Anatoly Karlin

    This may have more to do with Chinese stagnation regression than anything else. The Duke of Qin has noted that there was an emerging firearms doctrine in the Ming Dynasty. Asiatic composite bows were not more effective than English (or Japanese) longbows, except for horse archers (which are even more expensive to train than longbowmen and unlike longbowmen also cost a lot to maintain).

    Worth noting that the man who reunified Japan, Oda Nobunga, was known as the Great Musketeer. Japanese military art at the time was surely better than Chinese owing to the Sengoku Jidai, and even Spain found it prudent to issue an injunction against “testing Spanish arms” against the Japanese.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  110. Yevardian says:
    @songbird

    Since we are on the topic of negroid incompetence, I find it curious that with decades of contact, Amerindians widely adopted or invented native writing systems, whilst Nigeria (only the Igbo at that) never progressed past primitive ideographs despite centuries of contact with Arab and Portuguese slavers.

  111. @Thorfinnsson

    English longbows, while terribly effective, were almost ridiculous in terms of training and conditioning. The Duke of Wellington asked for an unit of longbows and was told that “no such men of skill” could be found in sufficient numbers anymore. I mentioned conditioning as a shipwreck containing the skeletons of longbowmen found that their very shoulderbones had distorted from the focused muscular growth.

    This essentially was a superelite and thus fragile to loss – after the loss of the 2000 archers in Patay, it doesn’t seem that the English were ever able to sufficiently rebuild their bowmen corps.

    Immaterial for Africans, of course, which obviously did not have the resource base to support or build a superelite or the massive bows for them. Bow-making, too, is a kind of technology.

  112. @Yevardian

    The best racial incompetence story I’ve ever heard is the Tasmanian aborigines. They forgot how to fish.

    In fairness to Okuwspearchucker or whatever his gibberish name is, the blacks somehow advanced into the iron age.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
  113. @Peasant

    How many foundaries were there in sub saharan Africa?

    Interestingly enough, the African Nok culture did indeed develop bloomeries very early in history with definite iron use by 550 BC. For some reason, they never used them for cutting, and no cutting tools more advanced than stone axes existed.

    Perhaps because there wasn’t a writing system, knowledge did not seemed to be maintained. Less and less was made, then they vanished.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Yevardian
  114. @Daniel Chieh

    Perhaps the failure to produce cutting tools is the result of bypassing the Bronze Age. It’s not like whetstones can be intuited from the way stone cutting tools are sharpened.

  115. Yevardian says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Mesoamericans also had the wheel, though they only used it for childrens’ toys. I think I recall reading that in Jared Diamond, though he as usual justified it with the statement that the Aztecs hardly suffered from a labour shortage. Still, it makes you wonder.

  116. @Yevardian

    Indeed, the Mesoamericans had a script from Mayan times, while the Incas were probably on the cusp of it (quipu can be effectively used for information storage).

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  117. Yevardian says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I was thinking more of how Africa never produced anyone like Sequoyah despite centuries of contact with literate traders.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  118. Okechukwu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    And yet for some reason you married a hairy German ape as opposed to a fellow Wakandan.

    Respond to my arguments and I’ll whoop your sorry ass like I’ve done whenever you’ve gathered up enough courage to debate me. I will give you credit for continuing to show your face around here after all the ass whoopins I’ve administered to you.

    Though in all likelihood that’s another one of your fairytales along with hiring security in Moscow, employing dozens of whites, and We Wuz Amerikangz.

    Yep. All of that and I’m still well under 40. You’d be surprised what smart people can accomplish. You wouldn’t know anything about that.

  119. Okechukwu says:
    @Yevardian

    I was thinking more of how Africa never produced anyone like Sequoyah despite centuries of contact with literate traders.

    Perhaps you’ve heard of Timbuktu?

    Of course, going by the stupidity demonstrated on this thread you probably think that the powerful Mali Empire was a backwater of hut-dwelling savages that could easily by conquered, colonized and enslaved by Europeans.

  120. Okechukwu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Of course Africans had neither longbows nor composite bows.

    Nubians were the most feared bowmen of antiquity. They did indeed have composite bows.

    Kenyans had longbows:

    Longbows of the Liangulu (Kenya)

    A tribe hailing from the Kenyan savannah nicknamed the “elephant people”. Befitting their handle, these African tribesmen zealously hunted down elephants with their powerful traditional longbows – bows similar in dimension and power to the famed English longbows.

    The average draw-weight of these bows was said to be above 100 pounds (one example measured a draw of 131 pounds) – European visitors who attempted to draw them could only pull them back a few inches.

    English explorer and ivory hunter Arthur Henry Neumann remarked in his 1898 published book of his exploits in the region:

    “The Wasanya (Liangulu) are remarkable for carrying immensely powerful bows, and most serviceably-loading arrows. It must require great force to draw one of these formidable engines properly, and one can well understand that those skilled in their use, with the additional help of poison on the missile, may kill both elephants and rhinoceros without much difficulty.” -

    https://imgur.com/gallery/aLVcO

  121. Okechukwu says:
    @Peasant

    Ah I see you are just an afrocentric troll. You need to refute my points. Why were Arabs running all over Africa enslaving blacks freely at will? A slave trade which Whites ended. Were Arabs at the time more militarily advanced than Europeans?

    Look, I’ve explained to you the economy of slavery. ISIS makes much more money on a barrel of oil than Exxon-Mobil. Why? Because ISIS sells oil it acquired via conquest. So while Exxon-Mobil may make cents per barrel, ISIS makes $40 to $50 per barrel subject to the prevailing price of oil. To the Arabs, slaves were just another commodity like gold or ivory, which they also traded and paid Africans for rather than trying to take by force. No Arab and no European was going to relinquish profits by paying for a commodity they could otherwise take by force.

    Not that they didn’t try:

    Traditional arms however remained important, and on some occasions waterborne incursions by Portuguese and British vessels were sharply repulsed by African naval forces. In the 15th century for example the Portuguese engaged in a series of ruthless raids against the Senegal coast, hunting for slaves. While powerful on the open sea, the Portuguese ships were less impressive in the shallow waters near to shore, and landing parties had to use smaller vessels to advance up the rivers. Using war canoes the African tribes of the coast fought back with lance, club, sword, and especially poisoned arrows. Poisoned missile fire from fast moving canoes neutralized Portuguese armor and decimated the European crews. The Portuguese were eventually forced to abandon raiding and set up peaceful trading arrangements with local African rulers using diplomacy.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=S42CypbRTlQC&pg=PA9#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Note very carefully the sections I’ve bolded. Early on, in the 1400′s, the Portuguese preference was to raid the African coastal areas and essentially acquire slaves for free. But they were engaged and defeated by African naval forces. From that point forward, the Portuguese would pay or trade for slaves.

    In nature, everything flows to the path of least resistance. A river doesn’t flow through a boulder, it flows around it. It was African strength, organization and military capabilities that kept European colonizers at bay for hundreds of years. There were much easier pickings in other places such as the Americas. If Pizarro and Cortez had tried their shenanigans in Africa they and their men would’ve been impaled on stakes and left there to rot as a warning to others.

    How many foundaries were there in sub saharan Africa?

    How would I know? What I do know is that modern carbonized steel production in Africa predates European production by 2000 years.

    AFRICAN STEEL MAKING

    Modern steel-making began in 1847. William Kelly of Eddyville, Kentucky, found he could make superior structural iron if he blew air through molten pig iron. Oxygen from the air burned harmful elements out of the iron and formed a very strong carbon steel. The process gave what we call converter steel. Nine years later the Englishman Henry Bessemer reinvented Kelly’s method. Today we talk about the Bessemer process for making carbon steel.

    But carbon steel had been made long before either Kelly or Bessemer. One of the oldest and most sophisticated methods was that of the Haya people. They’re an African tribe in what is Tanzania today. The Hayas produced high-grade carbon steel for about 2000 years.

    https://www.uh.edu/engines/epi385.htm

    Africans never managed to invent the wheel.

    I could say the same about Europeans. The provenance of the wheel is disputed. So we talk about adoption rather than invention.

    How much ammunition was produced in sub saharan Africa? Where did these weapons come from? Trade with Whites and Arabs. They certainly were not native to black Africa.

    Yes, Africans did produce firearms and ammunition. But all of that is irrelevant. Humans copy, steal and co-opt the ideas and inventions of others. Without the proliferation of technology and ideas you might be in a cave right now, wearing animal skins.

    Do you care to refute my point about the oil situation in Rhodesia?

    I don’t know what you mean by an oil situation. Rhodesia didn’t have oil but it had abundant natural resources that were just as valuable, if not more so. Is oil more valuable than diamonds or gold or nickle or platinum or copper?

    There was no Aparthied system in Rhodesia.

    Of course there was apartheid in Rhodesia. Don’t make me laugh. Whatever you choose to call it, it was a system of racial discrimination and third-class citizenship status for black people — a system they chose to no longer live under, which was their prerogative. So they took up arms, conducted a very costly war and ended that system by force.

    There were black professionals and black property owners could vote.

    It wasn’t like that. The system was far less egalitarian, far more pernicious and, indeed, far more complex than what you describe. You’re engaged in revisionist apologetics after the fact. It’s irrelevant, pointless and moot. Rhodesia is dead forever. Move on.

    The emigrants to Rhodesia which were going there right up untill the last moment were White families looking to escape a Britain being buffeted by the International Monetary Fund.

    So?

    Ian Smith was tremendously popular among ordinary Zimbabweans

    You took a poll, did you? Where’s your data?

    I mentioned the Liberian civil war because you said that any White ethnostates in modern Africa would be crushed by blacks which they most emphatically would not.

    Let me get this straight. A heavily armed and well-trained Rhodesian army with support in men and materiel from South Africa and other racist regimes and legions of black slave soldiers was nevertheless defeated, but you think a bunch of South African mercenaries can win?

    It would be a different situation altogether. How many people were involved in the so-called Liberian civil war? A couple of hundred? Setting up a white (i.e., racist) ethnostate in Africa would incur the wrath of the entire population, not to mention the searing anger of tens of millions more around the world, including whites, Asians and everyone else. This ethnostate would have to sequester itself in a heavily guarded, fortified and booby-trapped compound and never leave that place. Because the moment any of them left the compound they’d be filled with holes.

    Im glad that you finally found out the western education system was bogus. I too realised that eventually. But you have to understand you are being taken for a ride. The White (and jewish) leftist academics who write about how Africans were so advanced etc do so as part of a (mainly flase) egalitarian agenda. They try to minimise Europe and increase the importance of Africa.

    Actually, what authentic academic research has uncovered is the lengths to which previous generations of white academics, historians, researchers and anthropologists have gone to bury the civilizational accomplishments of black Africans. That’s why it came as such a shock to you (and to others here) that Africans stood and fought and, more often than not, defeated European colonialists and their armies. So, yes, Western education is deeply flawed, but not in the way you are supposing. There’s nothing that I’ve written here that cannot be substantiated with credible, irrefutable evidence. Can you say the same? Does your assessment that Africans were these primitive, submissive brutes who couldn’t, wouldn’t and didn’t fight back align with the available evidence?

    Please underatand- no one, I repeat, no one actually believes that at any time sub saharan Africa was as developed or more developed than Europe.

    These things go in cycles. Europe (Northwestern Europe in particular) was once down in development, now it’s up. At some point it will be down again. Civilizational attainment has many facets. For example, how you handle hygiene. So, I can assure you, that not only were there African kingdoms that were more advanced than Middle Ages Europe, there were other people around the world who also were more advanced than Europe. Do you really want to pit the Mali Empire of Mansa Musa against a motley collection of small, feudal European city states? Keep in mind that European ascendancy is a relatively recent phenomenon. You seem to think it’s been with us forever.

    I get the feeling that growing up in the west has given you an inferiority complex.

    On the contrary, it’s precisely because I was born in America, and have interacted and competed with Westerners all my life that I came to fully appreciate the ridiculousness of theories purporting to the inferiority of black people, intellectually or otherwise. I’m sure you can understand how someone like me would find the idea laughable.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  122. @Okechukwu

    I could quibble about details or lampoon you here and there, but overall this is a strong post which is praiseworthy.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Hyperborean
  123. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I’ll quibble a bit: those “small, feudal European city states” built soaring cathedrals when they had tiny populations of only around 2000 people. Before Mansa Musa.

    There is nothing remotely like them in Mali or the rest of sub-Saharan Africa. Even the bombed out ruins of some of them are more impressive than anything you could find south of the Sahara. The Great Mosque at Timbuktu looks like a mud pile or termite nest, in comparison.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  124. @Thorfinnsson

    We shouldn’t encourage him. We already have one Bliss too many, we don’t need another one.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  125. Anon[137] • Disclaimer says:

    “I could say the same about Europeans. The provenance of the wheel is disputed. So we talk about adoption rather than invention.”

    That’s a pretty serious deflection. Europeans have done wondrous things with the wheel, and countless other inventions. What has sub-Saharan Africa done with anything?

    “On the contrary, it’s precisely because I was born in America, and have interacted and competed with Westerners all my life that I came to fully appreciate the ridiculousness of theories purporting to the inferiority of black people, intellectually or otherwise. I’m sure you can understand how someone like me would find the idea laughable.”

    There are millions of blacks who were born in America as you claim to be but yet do greatly worse on all metrics. Perhaps your observations are merely selection bias?

    –>”only 7 percent of the eighth graders are grade-level proficient or better in reading”:

    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/only-7-detroit-public-school-8th-graders-proficient-reading

    “So, I can assure you, that not only were there African kingdoms that were more advanced than Middle Ages Europe, there were other people around the world who also were more advanced than Europe.”

    That doesn’t really mean much as the relative level of advancement at that time is far below the current era. It’s one thing for Africans to organize into primitive societies before the advent of electricity. It is another to run modern corporations or have a space program.

    “Do you really want to pit the Mali Empire of Mansa Musa against a motley collection of small, feudal European city states? ”

    Why not? Didn’t Cortez kick Moctezuma’s ass with around 500 guys? Somehow, I think the Europeans would have done fine. They certainly would now. The Arabs did back in the day. They whipped black Africa’s ass and sold them into slavery.

    “Keep in mind that European ascendancy is a relatively recent phenomenon. You seem to think it’s been with us forever.”

    True, but irrelevant. Both Japan (resource poor) and China were relatively primitive by European standards around 1890, but both have modernized quite well. Africa? Not so much, despite massive investment and copious natural resources. The difference is that both China and Japan have mean IQs high above the African average, so there is at least the potential for advancement there. Anyone betting that Nigeria will be the next Japan — well, you know the saying about a fool and his money being parted.

    http://www.pc-freak.net/blog/iq-world-rank-country-smartest-nations/

    “Can you say the same? Does your assessment that Africans were these primitive, submissive brutes who couldn’t, wouldn’t and didn’t fight back align with the available evidence?”

    Absolutely it does. Here’s a map of colonial Africa before WWI: https://io9.gizmodo.com/a-map-of-colonial-africa-just-before-the-outbreak-of-wo-1704165344

    Europeans controlled 45% of Africa’s population. A few skirmishes won here and there didn’t change that fact.

    “Let me get this straight. A heavily armed and well-trained Rhodesian army with support in men and materiel from South Africa”

    A relatively small force and somewhat lightly armed by the standards of Western nations at the time.

    “was nevertheless defeated, but you think a bunch of South African mercenaries can win?”

    Not so much “defeated” as “gave up” under massive white sanctions. Their efforts were quite respectable all things considered. If they had merely wished to exterminate blacks rather than maintain the status quo, they probably could have accomplished this.

    “But carbon steel had been made long before either Kelly or Bessemer. One of the oldest and most sophisticated methods was that of the Haya people.”

    You’re not really going to claim that primitive Africans smelted metals at the same quality and quantity as Europeans during the Industrial Revolution are you? Please. Get out of town. Almost all of your crazy rants are like this: filled with BS distortions and misrepresentations fact.

    • Troll: Okechukwu
  126. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:

    “Kenyans had longbows”

    The bow that you reference was hardly equivalent to the typical medieval English longbow. It was described as “intractable” (i.e. useless in real combat) and used mainly for elephant hunting and later poaching. There is also no telling how long it was around as I did not find a reference to it before about 1890.

    “Elephants were being slaughtered by the hundreds in what was euphemistically called “”the Ivory Game.”” Among the main offenders were members of a tribe called the Liangulu, who hunted with poisoned arrows fired from the most intractable bows in the world (about a 120-lb. pull).”

    https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/dennis-holman/massacre-of-the-elephants/

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  127. Anon[342] • Disclaimer says:

    “Nubians were the most feared bowmen of antiquity. They did indeed have composite bows.”

    Nubia is located in North Africa along the Nile River, staring in lower Egypt. By “African” Karlin meant sub-Saharan “black” African. You’re are misappropriating the accomplishments of one racial/ethnic group(s) with another (your own).

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  128. @Thorfinnsson

    In fairness to Okuwspearchucker or whatever his gibberish name is

  129. @Hyperborean

    They add flavor, and as far as I know he’s not a we-wuz-kangz fool like Bliss who thinks the Ancient Egyptians were black (though perhaps he is?). The fact that he erupts and gets angry is a plus in my view.

    There’s also a fair point that from the Bronze Age right down to the Industrial Revolution military technology throughout Eurasia was fairly comparable, and by the Middle Ages if not earlier this technology reached West Africa and the Zanj. That African steel making was advanced is also fairly well known.

    There was a good PBS documentary series about African civilizations titled Africa’s Great Civilizations that is interesting to watch.

    Blacks and negro worshippers can speak for themselves, but presumably they think that the African civilizations of West Africa and the Zanj would’ve continued to develop and ultimately encompass the entire continent had they not been destroyed by Europeans in the 19th century. They can cite the fact that Europeans first received civilization from the Near East, and Northern Europe from the Mediterranean.

  130. Karl says:
    @g2k

    7 g2k > unless you’re an actual Russian citizen, you can’t own freehold property

    i don’t need my name written in a book in a property-register’s office; I only need beneficial control via contractual relations.

    i’ve read that Sheraton Hotels doesn’t own a single hotel building anywhere in the world

  131. Okechukwu says:
    @songbird

    I’ll quibble a bit: those “small, feudal European city states” built soaring cathedrals when they had tiny populations of only around 2000 people. Before Mansa Musa.

    While impressive, those were vanity projects erected amid absolute squalor and human misery.

    There is nothing remotely like them in Mali or the rest of sub-Saharan Africa. Even the bombed out ruins of some of them are more impressive than anything you could find south of the Sahara. The Great Mosque at Timbuktu looks like a mud pile or termite nest, in comparison.

    Timbuktu was a center of learning and scholarship at a time when Europeans were burning books and any fledgling scientists, along with “witches” and “heretics.”

    While we’re on the subject of slavery, I think we can gauge the relative strengths of Middle Ages Africa vs. Middle Ages Europe by comparing and contrasting their respective relationships with Muslim slavers. In Africa the Muslim slave trade was transactional. The Muslims solemnly and respectfully made deals with African rulers for the purchase of slaves. However, in Europe the Muslims raided and brutally carried away slaves, with no payment, no trade, nothing. Well over one million white European slaves were taken (see White Gold by Giles Milton). The Muslims took slaves from Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, England, Ireland, the Netherlands and even Iceland. They acted with complete impunity because the Europeans were in no position to resist. Remember, to maximize profits slavers had a strong preference for free slaves. They offered remuneration only if the opposition was strong enough to resist.

  132. Okechukwu says:
    @Anon

    The bow that you reference was hardly equivalent to the typical medieval English longbow. It was described as “intractable” (i.e. useless in real combat) and used mainly for elephant hunting and later poaching. There is also no telling how long it was around as I did not find a reference to it before about 1890.

    You clowns don’t help your cause (whatever it is) with this kind of spinning and prevarication in the face of reality.

    Fact: The Kenyans had longbows. Intractable? Maybe for a weak little man like you, but not for them.

  133. Karl says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    33 Thorfinnson > Frankly returning to gold as the standard for international payments isn’t a bad idea

    it’s a neutral idea. Trade Finance is more like used-truck prices than anything normies estimate it to be – not very susceptible to external control

    tell you what….. next time you have need one contract’s worth of (oh, say for example) green coffee beans from (oh, say for example) Brazil, tell the plantation owner that you want to pay in (oh, say for example) Canadian gold coins

    Let us know how it works out?

  134. Okechukwu says:
    @Anon

    Nubia is located in North Africa along the Nile River, staring in lower Egypt. By “African” Karlin meant sub-Saharan “black” African. You’re are misappropriating the accomplishments of one racial/ethnic group(s) with another (your own).

    Hahaha … That’s rich coming from people yelling from the rooftops, “we wuz romanz and greekz.”

    This is what the fake Russian Karlin wrote:

    Of course Africans had neither longbows nor composite bows.

    Nubians were African and black.

  135. Karl says:
    @Okechukwu

    75 Okechukwu > {Canadian Secretary Syndrome}

    probably a black guy would consider those chicks to be primo wife material

    > The next president will have a lot of cleaning up to do

    i’ll tell all the Nigerians & Somalis to stop emigrating to America, until you have the placed cleaned up

  136. Karl says:
    @Okechukwu

    88 Okechukwu > Many of the African kingdoms during the Middle Ages and beyond were more powerful than their European counterparts

    so why didn’t they have any embassies in Europe, or China, or India, or the New World?

    And how come the coffee trade wasn’t denominated in Bantu banknotes?

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  137. Okechukwu says:
    @Karl

    so why didn’t they have any embassies in Europe, or China, or India, or the New World?

    Embassies among nations were not as widespread as they would later become. However…

    Benin had an embassy in Portugal in the 1400′s.

    Kongo had an embassy in Portugal in the 1400′s and an embassy in the Vatican in the 1500′s.

    The Ashanti (now Ghana) had an embassy in London in the early 1800′s.

    Guinea had an embassy in Louis XIV’s France in the 1600′s.

    Ethiopia had embassies in Portugal in the 1300′s and an embassy in the Vatican in the 1400′s, Valencia (Spain) in the 1500′s and Venice in the 1500′s.

    There were many other missions and diplomatic exchanges between pre-colonial Africans and Europeans. They dealt with each other as equals, with European nations vying with each other for lucrative trade agreements. At this the time the Africans were too strong and the Europeans too weak to impose their will.

    And how come the coffee trade wasn’t denominated in Bantu banknotes?

    Are you some kind of moron? Nobody accepted anybody’s worthless banknotes back then. The world was on the gold standard. You either paid with gold or you bartered.

  138. @Okechukwu

    Do you not thinking that progressive taxation combined with economic redistribution would be more tenable than land distribution . Land distribution could be with or without compensation. White South Africans due to the socioeconomic situtation in South Africa pay more in net taxes than they recieve. The money that the goverment collects should be spent on infrastructure, education, basic assistance, etc. Allthough you could make the argument that the reason White South Africans earn so much, and therefore may so much tax, is due to structural historical reasons. Structural historical reasons like better access to world trade, white supremacy and Apartheid. What do you think?

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
  139. @Rattus Norwegius

    “Allthough you could make the argument that the reason White South Africans earn so much, and therefore may so much tax, ”

    Should be

    therefore pay so much tax,

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