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I suppose we will now see whether the failings of half-assed socialism and the tried and tested techniques of color revolution by way of Uncle Sam will win out over Cuban intelligence officers and a nascent social credit system by way of Uncle Chang.

Idiot Sechin has trouble getting back money even now (unlike the Chinese). If Maduro goes, Russia can kiss those $12 billion (?) in loans goodbye.

PS. While the US doubtless has its claws in there, it’s not really credible to assign the instability to foreign forces when inflation is beating Zimbabwean records and GDP has collapsed by more than Russia’s did after the USSR because a bus driver believes that money grows on trees. I also recall that in opinion polls a few years ago Venezuelans had some of the highest approval rates of the US of any Latin American country.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Color Revolution, Venezuela 
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  1. It would be a good outcome if Sechin was executed tomorrow. Though it’s up to the Russians to decide it, I’m sure $12B would be worth it.

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  2. Guys, I want to offer a bit of reality check for you here. Venezuela, even after its recent “collapse”, still has higher GDP per capita compared to the Ukraine. Oddly, no one seems to be rebelling in the Ukraine.

    https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/[email protected]/VEN/UKR

    Bottomline is we cannot rely on Western media to give us the accurate picture about economic situation in Venezuela. The same Western media also like to say that Russia is collapsing.

    • Agree: Digital Samizdat
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Dmitry
    , @g2k
  3. Gigi says:

    Hi Anatoly,
    I do not know where you took those 12 billion $, but find below some recent (official) estimates:

    At the end of June 2018 Venezuela’s state oil and gas company PDVSA cut its debt to Russia’s top crude producer Rosneft by $400 million to $3.6 billion :

    https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/oil/080718-venezuelas-oil-major-pdvsa-cut-debt-to-russias-rosneft-400-mil-in-q2

    As of December 5, 2018, “Russia’s aggregate investment in Venezuela currently exceeds $4.1 billion, according to the Kremlin.”
    https://energy-analytics-institute.org/2018/12/putin-hosts-venezuelas-president-with-aid-to-regime-on-agenda/

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  4. @reiner Tor

    Russian populace by and large is blissfully unaware of the money Russia dumped into Venezuela. They are also mostly unaware of $100+ billion that Russia dumped into Belarus since 2000.

    Russian leaders get away with wasting astronomic sums of money, because their people basically do not give a fuck. It goes a long way to explain why Russia is not rich.

    • Agree: Swarthy Greek
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  5. @Felix Keverich

    I think those monies weren’t wasted if they resulted in the execution of the imprudent leaders. Next time, they might not waste so much.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  6. @Gigi

    There is PDVSA debt to Rosneft, sovereign Venezuelan debt to Russia, and the money Rosneft paid to acquire oilfields in Venezuela – I don’t know the exact breakdown here, but we’re talking about a sum well in excess of $10 billion. Safe to say all this money will be gone, if Maduro is overthrown.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  7. @reiner Tor

    I suppose they wouldn’t once they are dead, but clearly, you’re talking about some other country here.

  8. @Felix Keverich

    It’s not ppp. It’d still be fine if the bolívar was convertible. It is not. So the “current exchange rate” is some sort of official exchange rate which is probably pretty meaningless.

    Moreover, it is based on official statistics, which is also unreliable. So you declare that Venezuela is richer than Ukraine based on taking a highly unreliable number multiplied by a meaningless number, and then comparing it to a way more reliable number multiplied by a still not very meaningful number (after all, exchange rates have a limited usefulness).

  9. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Ukraine doesn’t have 300 billion barrels of oil.

    Venezuela has 300 billion barrels of oil.

    How stupid can Chavez and Maduro be with 20% of world’s oil reserves.

  10. @Dmitry

    The great bulk of Venezuela’s oil reserves are in the form of very heavy oil that would cost more to extract than the price it could get on the markets.

    So those huge reserves figures are pretty meaningless.

    They do have some okay oil (still heavy and sulfuric IIRC but you can still make a profit on it), but PDVSA has been so heavily taxed and politicized that its production rates have been inexorable falling for a few years now.

    At some point this year, it is projected to fall below the level needed to cover debt repayments to China and Russia, or even cover domestic consumption. That might be when the real threat to Maduro comes, not now. The Army will probably stay loyal so long as it is getting paid, and the Cuban intel officers sniff out discontents.

    • Agree: Dmitry
  11. Dmitry says:

    I enjoyed using YouTube to improve my Spanish skills 2 years ago, watching on YouTube the famous “Que pasa en Venezuela” videos (which is usually hot girls explaining about how they have to escape Venezuela).

    I tried again after not searching the videos for years – and lol same story (some Venezuelans somehow upload videos on YouTube despite the shit internet)

    How bad is Venezuela – when they have to emigrate to Ecuador?

    Other Latino nationalities (like Argentinians) are in some kind of permanent shock on their news about how stupid Venezuelan economics is.

  12. @Dmitry

    You are missing my point, both you and reiner. Let’s face it, life in the Ukraine sucks ass. In recent years both countries experienced large-scale population exodus. The Ukraine could even be slightly better off than Venezuela, but it’s still pretty fucking horrible.

    At the same the Ukraine is lacking any real anti-government movement, because the US currently has the government they can totally control. There are plenty of impoverished, pro-American regimes like the Ukraine, where people seem willing to tolerate extreme deprivation for years. On the other hand Venezuela and Iran get periodically rocked by anti-government protests. Somehow I doubt that the economy is the driving cause of such protests.

    • Replies: @g2k
    , @Dmitry
    , @AP
  13. g2k says:
    @Felix Keverich

    No, but stats are stats.

    https://tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/gdp-growth-annual
    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-growth-annual

    The economy in terms of GDP hasn’t done quite as badly (yet) as AK makes out here, but (negative) growth rates certainly suggest that it won’t take very long for that to happen. Inflation is mind blowing:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/inflation-cpi

    Zimbabwe had 11.2 million percent inflation in 2008; Venezuela is only at 1,5 million percent lol.

    Compare and contrast this with late 2014 when neocons were gloating about Russia’s imminent financial collapse:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/inflation-cpi

  14. @g2k

    The fact that you are using this horrible website tells me that you have a casual relationship with stats. Of course, Venezuela is not Russia, it’s more like the Ukraine, where GDP recorded double digit declines in 2014 and 2015.

  15. @g2k

    I saw this a few days ago. Don’t know if 100% accurate.

    • Replies: @g2k
    , @Mr. XYZ
  16. g2k says:
    @Felix Keverich

    No doubt AP will be around soon to remind everyone that he bulk of Ukraine’s GDP collapse has been in the East and that the pro-maidan areas haven’t done all that terribly. I was there about two years ago and there were some small anti-Poroshenko protests led by UPA types and militia veterans, but the authorities just ignored them. As we’ve seen in France, protests go nowhere unless they have at least some elite support. All non-hardcore atlaticist factions of Ukraine’s elite were purged in 2014.

    Iran has been quite stable; the economy there hasn’t performed too terribly, Mullahs over Marxists. A moderate Shia population don’t really like being ruled by a strict Shia theocracy, but things aren’t bad enough for them to want to rock the boat. Inflation there is a problem, but if they can hunker down for a decade or so, until the end of the US banking hegemony, they”l be ok.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  17. g2k says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I think that when things get this bad, the debate is academic. The World Bank stopped recording GDP in 2014, itself a bad sign.

  18. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Well everyone knows the situation of Ukraine sucks.

    Meanwhile in Venezuela, the population now mass flee to countries like Colombia, Peru and Ecuador (where they experience racism, become homeless, etc).

    It doesn’t seem like any normal Venezuelans even defend the government. Maybe some government officials and “indigenous” cattle is happy with Maduro/Chavez.

    Venezuelans are constantly escaping in hundreds of thousands across the border to Colombia, where they then go to live as laborers in countries like Peru and Ecuador. How shit is your economy situation where the population is now starting to mass emigrate to Colombia, Peru and Ecuador?

    • Replies: @Mister
  19. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    The Ukraine could even be slightly better off than Venezuela, but it’s still pretty fucking horrible.

    Says someone who has never been there and who is on record believing that Ukrainians are worse off than Venezuelans.

    LOL “slightly better off.”

    As for exodus – you must think all those Poles in Germany proves that Poland is totally awful after Communism. Maybe even slightly better than Venezuela.

    At the same the Ukraine is lacking any real anti-government movement, because the US currently has the government they can totally control.

    No, it’s because they are getting some stuff they like, they aren’t afraid of the current government consoliating into an unremovable dictatorship, and because things are getting better, not worse as in Venezuela. They dislike Poroshenko because he hasn’t fixed corruption, but aren’t desperate to remove him either.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    , @Gerard2
  20. Dmitry says:
    @g2k

    Venezuela and Iran produce vast oil and gas.

    To compare to Ukraine, is not fair assessment of Ukraine’s economic management (which begins already in a far more difficult situation than a country like Venezuela which should be one of the richest in the world).

    The economy for Ukraine to compare to are (non-oil producing, non-EU acceded) countries which were formerly of the USSR.

    Ukraine’s comparison should be Belarus, Georgia, Tajikistan, Armenia, Moldova.

    Politically, they are the most crazy. But in economics, they are a failure just in comparison to Belarus, Georgia, Armenia. On the other hand, they are similar kind of “economic success” as Moldova.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    , @AP
  21. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Dmitry

    Ukraine might have a higher average IQ than Georgia, Tajikistan, and Moldova, though. Out of the non-EU ex-USSR countries, I suspect that only Belarus, Russia, Armenia, and Kazakhstan have an average IQ comparable to or higher than that of Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  22. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AP

    Why do you think that Yanukovych behaved more in an authoritarian manner than Poroshenko did?

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    , @AP
  23. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Please pardon my extreme ignorance, but why did things go south in Venezuela in 2013? Is it exclusively due to the low oil prices, or was there something else going on there?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  24. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Sure, and Ukraine begins with quite a lot more industrial development, as well as proximity to EU economy.

    But for all economies emerging from the collapse of the USSR, it is an extremely difficult and stressful transition.

    Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are acceded into the EU, so there is no fair comparison for Ukraine.

    Azerbaijan, Russia, Kazakhstan – economic growth massively boosted from oil and gas exports as the price increases multiple times after 1999. So their economic and national success is not a fair comparison for Ukraine.

    For some fair comparison of how well Ukraine are economically managing relative to other states, the comparison should first be to Belarus, and then Moldova,Georgia, Armenia

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    , @Gerard2
  25. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Dmitry

    I’d say that the comparison should first be to Belarus, then to Armenia, then to Georgia, and then to Moldova.

  26. Gerard2 says:
    @Dmitry

    Ukraine doesn’t have 300 billion barrels of oil.

    Venezuela has 300 billion barrels of oil.

    How stupid can Chavez and Maduro be with 20% of world’s oil reserves.

    Dmitry..Ukraine is a severe fuckup country, in spite of being left with a perfect opportunity of some of the worlds best infrastructure and workforce in several important industries, decent climate. educated workforce, western backers….but is still a pitiful , chaotic mess.

    Ukraine’s oil and gas transit fees by themselves must make up a big part of Venezuela’s WHOLE GDP. There is no comparison for me.

    As for Venezuela, Their oil production levels aren’t terrible ( about 20% of Russia’s), it has rivals in oil production in the same part of the world such as Brazil , Mexico, and Canada and a hostile US, which in turn makes numerous South American state’s not do as much trade with them as they can .

    A circumstance of the Americans against you creates a very hard investment and trade environment , as Russia has found , and can make the exploration-extraction-eventual final delivery of oil from any site not easy at all – no matter how big the volume is.

  27. Gerard2 says:
    @Dmitry

    Belarus, and then Moldova,Georgia, Armenia

    All those countries are FAR more successful than Ukraine

    MoldovaSSR was nowhere near as industrially developed as Ukraine …plus with Priednestroviye ,it lost it’s most industrially developed and important region shortly after independence. The Romanian-Moldovan-Russian culture/language/economic struggle is very much a natural one – compared to the fake and idiotic one created in Ukraine.
    Armenia after the USSR has had terrible relations with the relatively rich Azerbaijan and Turkey, and rail transport of goods to Russia not possible because of the dickheads in Gruziya.

    I can’t think of one industry where Moldova was in a better or even close position with Ukraine from which to start and be more of a success after 1991.

    …and again, Ukraine has had the huge benefit of the gas, oil transit ( or just general transport of goods to and from Russia-Europe), naval base lease and numerous other things in this failed state

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  28. Gerard2 says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Why do you think that Yanukovych behaved more in an authoritarian manner than Poroshenko did?

    Thats an entirely false question and assertion.

  29. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    [MORE]

    Says someone who has never been there and who is on record believing that Ukrainians are worse off than Venezuelans

    LOL…..HAHA!……Your comment to Felix is yet another piece of scumbag projection. Felix knows plenty about Ukraine you idiot, and almost certainly has more connection to that land than some North Americans Banderatard fu–tard who pretends to be Ukrainian, by pretending to be Polish and Austrian or some other dumb f-wit fantasy.

    They dislike Poroshenko because he hasn’t fixed corruption

    ..and significantly worsened living standards, health, education, crime, mass exodus, is openly corrupt and is well on course to give Russia the perfect present of two scumbag Presidents who came to power in illegal, US created fake “revolutions” are kicked out of office in the first round of Presidential elections whilst struggling to get to even double digits you thick prick.

    The protoplasmic,alcoholic mafia scumbag Valtsman has barely got a little raise in popularity ratings after the whole fake “independent” Church was created, and the IMF released further loans (illegally)
    Then he can’t afford to not take part in a television debate like Putin does, he has to take part….in which case he will get humilated from all signs for his colossal failures

    • Replies: @AP
  30. Dmitry says:
    @Gerard2

    Ukraine has some very crazy politics, we all know.

    But in the economic situation – it is good to look at their data in context, as their situation has been harsh, along with other countries.

    I have checked for the IMF database for “Gross domestic product per capita, current prices Purchasing power parity; international dollars, 2018”

    Russia $29,032
    Turkey $28,27
    Mexico $20,644

    1. Belarus $20,175
    (Namibia $11,516)
    2. Georgia $11,600
    3. Armenia $10,274
    4. Ukraine $9,182
    (India $7,795)
    5. Moldova $7,103


    https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2018/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=70&pr.y=5&sy=2018&ey=2018&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=911%2C913%2C921%2C922%2C915%2C926&s=PPPPC&grp=0&a=

    So the order of the comparison countries I find relevant, is according to this measure: 1. Belarus, 2. Georgia, 3. Armenia, 4. Ukraine, 5. Moldova

    Ukraine is still ahead of Moldova (and India, surprisingly considering India’s growth) in GDP per capita at price purchasing parity, according to this measure.

    But obviously, a lot of this is a result of Ukraine’s depopulation sadly.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  31. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Reversed the results of the previous parliamentary election to give himself a fake majority in parliament (and thus total control over the government), for one.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  32. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    Valtsman

    Valtsman being Poroshenko’s secret Jewish name is fake news only a Sovok would believe. Let me guess: you also believe kids were being crucified in Donbas?

    significantly worsened living standards, health, education, crime, mass exodus,

    Mostly only for Sovoks in the East.

    The rest of the country has seen its living standards (if one means GDP PPP) recover. Crime is now back to 2013 level (AK posted this before). “Mass exodus” means Ukrainians now have access to jobs that pay 4x more, like Poles have in the Western EU, tjhat they did not have access to before.
    Such a tragedy! Many Sovoks such as yourself would wish for such an opportunity.

    some North Americans Banderatard

    Average family income of Ukrainians in the USA:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income#By_ancestry

    Ukrainian American (2016): $72,449

    That must really hurt 🙂

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  33. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    On the other hand, they are similar kind of “economic success” as Moldova.

    Ukraine’s GDP PPP is much closer to Armenia’s than to Moldova’s.

  34. LondonBob says:

    Should rename this the Ukraine thread, number five thousand and eight.

    I remember when Ken Livingstone had Venezuela provide free fuel to London, one of the richest cities in the world, in return for urban planning assistance. Socialists!

    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @AP
  35. The USA was a lot nicer country when they stuck to messing about in their own backyard.

    Instead of dealing with cretinous Middle Easterners, America should invade Latin American countries for the sake of hamburgers and Chicago School libertarianism.

    Given its demographics, they wouldn’t even be invading ‘foreign’ nations.

    • Replies: @songbird
  36. Mitleser says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    The decline of the oil price and American sanctions.

  37. AP says:
    @LondonBob

    Should rename this the Ukraine thread, number five thousand and eight.

    Started by Keverich, not Hack.

    But speaking of this, it looks like the Saudis are financing Ukrainian weapon development, first with the Grom missile and now this:

    https://defence-blog.com/news/saudi-arabia-to-develop-microwave-weapon-using-ukrainian-supplied-technology.html

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Gerard2
    , @LatW
  38. Is the coup or attempted coup related to this Reuters news item, admittedly from September 2017 ?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-oil/venezuela-publishes-oil-prices-in-chinese-currency-to-shun-u-s-dollar-idUSKCN1BQ2D1

    I seem to recall Saddam was pricing his oil in Euros before the 2003 series of unfortunate events.

    Which countries are currently selling oil in a currency other than dollars?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  39. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean

    I am in favor of annexing the less indio parts of Mexico, in order to consolidate the border and buy the open-borders Mexicans off. I could adjust myself to living in a place like Argentina or even Mexico.

    It’s a radical solution. I doubt it would even work, but from where I stand, the US is doomed to become Nigeria II. And I don’t see any other political solution which is remotely possible. A lot of Mexicans actually want to be part of a superstate encompassing the whole of North America.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  40. Mitleser says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

  41. @songbird

    I think a lot of ordinary Mexicans would accept this, but it seems the ruling class in Mexico sees the United States primarily as an escape vault to release the pressure on themselves.

    The situation reminds of an English science fiction writer, maybe it was Huxley or Wells (…?), who I think predicted that the English and Spanish language in North America would start merging by the 21th or 22th century.

  42. @Hyperborean

    …the English and Spanish language in North America would start merging by the 21th or 22th century.

    Ugh.

  43. KA says:

    A Karlin is not unhappy with any of the misdeeds of Us-Western Europe . He is unhappy because it is not succeeding whether it is in Gaza West Bank or Syria. He is unhappy because it has taken so long for America to put sanction back on Iran.

    [MORE]

    His presentation on Venezuela without pointing the fingers at US’s covert and overt attempts to undermine the economy is latest symptom of this awe for the globalist -Atlanticsts cauldron of human greed and vice .

    May be he should ponder why USA that used to see mass protests until 1940s don’t see it anymore . Instead they commit suicide – Police officers, Veterans by shooting themselves , and the middle class white Americans through drugs. 18 yrs old work his ass off in restaurant or as long distance truck drivers just to stay alive and commute to work until they are thrown out in their 40s or forced to leave because body can’t take anymore .

    The current Christian -religion- Islam bashing is nothing but the pre determined certain sequel to the indiscriminate illogical and distorted bashing of socialism that enveloped US after WW2.

    BTW – 5 people were killed in Florida . The news is on 18 th page of NYT. Has the Yellow Vest dominated on NYT or CNN or FOX?

    Reuters reported that Italian deputy PM has accused France of causing the migrant crisis and the underdevelopment of Africa so that it can suck the wealth out of Africa and has caused problems in Libya so that it can steal oil. He did not go far enough . He should have included Syria Iraq and Afghanistan . He should have included Charlie Hedbo and other terrorism .

    may be one day he or someone will openly say so.

  44. anon[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP

    Agree, there shall be regular Russia-Ukraine threads for people who like this content (Mr. Karlin should just close comments when they hit 1000 and make new one, articles with huge comments count are hard to load). Maybe separate Balkan threads too.

  45. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    Started by Keverich, not Hack.

    hahaha! Felix is a sometime contributor who is probably per-emptivetly stating the obvious, knowing that a sack of faeces freak as you is a full-time spamtroll freak who literally inhabits these comment boards and writes millions of comments trying to stalk all pro-Russia boards ( partly because pro-Ukraine comment board is an oxymoron)

    Mr Hack/Spack/Twat is a clown but not a deranged scumbag trolll sadist as yourself….and you know there is no comparison between your spamming on here, and everyone else….not to mention the intent , of which clearly is to distort everything with disinformation as everybody laughs at Banderaland

    But speaking of this, it looks like the Saudis are financing Ukrainian weapon development, first with the Grom missile and now this:

    https://defence-blog.com/news/saudi-arabia-to-develop-microwave-weapon-using-ukrainian-supplied-technology.html

    erroneous links to pipe-dream projects ( except in the corruption-stream area) when the country has a non-existant state of military-technology development to fallback on without Russia…is laughable to say the least. They can though purchase at extortionate rates, unwanted , 40 year+American military hardware!

    But what a pitiful situation that exists this scumbag failure military boasts about phantom military development as it fails to even make incremental gains on Donbass territory (despite numerous sporadic attempts), boasts about the size and training of its army……but then cowardly and shamelessly falls back on squealing about *RussiainvadedUkraine hashtag garbage and crying for sanctions every time LNR/DNR give these pricks an annihilation for a failed breakthrough at the defacto border.

    Maybe you can also boast about the life expectancy….Oh wait I forget…..Russia is now stretching ahead ,despite 40 million+ of the population living in areas that regularly touch -30c and about 6-7 million in areas with severe daylight shortages, or no day at all, during the winter

    • Replies: @AP
  46. anon[384] • Disclaimer says:

    Back on topic: how you you see the situation in Venezuela?

    Will Donald get his short victorious war just in time for 2020 campaign? There is nothing that Americans love more than fireworks. Will it work? Any predictions coming?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/04/trump-suggested-invading-venezuela-report

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  47. Gerard2 says:
    @Dmitry

    India is a country that even 15% growth for the next 15 years would still leave much of the population in poverty.

    that PPP figure ( whilst still being crap) for Ukraine, is almost certainly not true, and just more lies. Nominal figures are more trustworthy for Ukraine, as PPP relies on their own corrupt officials assumptions (anybody seriously think these idiots can suddenly give themselves a $1000 pay rise per person in 18 months?). Is ANY Ukrainian civilian even thinking that BS is plausbile? Of course not

    they are importing and exporting pretty much nothing compared to 2013/2014, investment is non-existant ( Belarus get’s more), Russia invests far more in Serbia and Greece ( more than 10 times) than the whole of the world invests in Ukraine, except for Russia which is still the largest FDI there! Interest’s rates , loan rates are going the wrong way as are many other things

    Moldova’s growth is far exceeding Ukraine’s pitiful fake growth ( as is Priednistroviye, where I think wages are also higher)

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @AP
  48. Mitleser says:
    @Felix Keverich

    It is not that bad.

  49. Gerard2 says:
    @anon

    Americans get annoyed if Russia earns above $70 per barrel, I would start from that and then make extrapolations into how any war in Venezuela would pan out .Colombia and Brazil would be big winners, in the short term.
    Certainly a war lasting a 3-4 months, and increasing oil price by say, 15% could easily wipe off the recent money invested in Venezuela by Russia

  50. “Goldman Sachs, has just {May 2017?} handed over about US$800 million to the notoriously corrupt, criminal and human rights violating government of Venezuela, in order to obtain $2.8billion Venezuelan bonds paying a 12.75% interest rate, which if repaid would provide GS with about a 42% yearly return, 2.000% more than what US pays. Has it in fact not committed the mother of all corruptions acts punishable under the FCPA?”

    http://perkurowski.blogspot.com/search/label/Goldman%20Sachs

  51. It’s the rich, US-backed, right-wing capitalist elite that’s against Maduro and have been trying to wreck Venezuela for 20 years now. The same elite who own the super markets. The same elite who are intentionally starving the poor by not stocking the shelves. The same elite that instead of stocking their shelves, sell their products on the black market for mass profit. The same elite that told countries and foreign companies not to do any business with Maduro, or else. The same elite that is working with Columbia to block insulin and other critical medicines from getting into the country. The same elite that told the UK not to give Venezuela’s gold back. The same elite who pay gangs to firebomb the police and assassinate leftist leaders all across the country. The same elite who literally beg and cheer for economic/financial blockades & sanctions against their own country! Add all of the sanctions, just like we did to Iraq, starving women and children.

    This is economic warfare by the most financially powerful country/military in the world, yet you go on whining about socialism, being willfully ignorant is no way to go through life kids.

    Keep up with your blatant lies and propaganda. Most people are not so ignorant or gullible. Its pretty amazing to watch. Democrats and Republicans both seem to be OK with this, that should tell you all you need to know about the uniparty. The coup in Venezuela is using the same CIA play-book as in Ukraine and Syria.

    https://grayzoneproject.com/2019/01/23/us-coup-oil-venezuela-right-wing-opposition-privatization-capitalism/

  52. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AP

    That’s a fair point, though this does raise an interesting question–why exactly didn’t the Ukrainian courts stop him from doing this? After all, this happened at the very beginning of his Presidency when I’m presuming that a lot of the judges in Ukraine were supporters of the Orange Revolution.

    Also, had a parliamentary election in Ukraine been held in 2010 instead of 2012 (I’ve read that this was Yanukovych’s plan if the Ukrainian courts didn’t approve his poaching of members of other parliamentary factions to give himself a fake majority), what do you think the odds would have been of pro-Russian parties winning a majority of the seats in the Ukrainian parliament?

    As you know, 2010 was a pro-Russian year in Ukraine and thus one wonders whether the pro-Russian forces could have won a parliamentary majority in Ukraine fair and square at that point in time–unlike in 2012 when they lost the popular vote but won a majority anyway due to the first past the post system.

    • Replies: @AP
  53. Mister says:
    @Dmitry

    If this regime change goes anything like Libya’s, then there will be a greater mass exodus than what they have now. Refugees might even flood into the United States, since Latin American countries offer nothing like what the European ones offer.

  54. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    writes millions of comments

    Sovok can’t add.

    In 2018 I wrote 2,775 comments; Dmitry wrote 3,568 and reiner tor wrote over 4,000.

    Maybe you can also boast about the life expectancy….Oh wait I forget…..Russia is now stretching ahead

    Ukraine’s lowest life expectancy is in the Sovok areas. If Ukraine has slipped a little behind it is because of its Sovoks. Galicians still live longer than Russians.

    You are a Sovok making fun at the expense of your own kind.

    But it looks like Russia is still behind Ukraine.

    https://knoema.com/atlas/Ukraine/topics/Demographics/Population-forecast/Life-expectancy

    In 2018, life expectancy for Ukraine was 72.2 years.

    https://knoema.com/atlas/Russian-Federation/topics/Demographics/Age/Life-expectancy-at-birth

    In 2018, life expectancy at birth for Russian Federation was 71.35 years.

  55. Dmitry says:
    @Gerard2

    Sure, PPP “data” is not a reliable measure – you can see how it changes wildly in one to another year for many countries.

    However, my point for Ukraine’s income, is just it is fair to compare Ukrainian data with relevant context (relative to Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, Moldova, et al).

    Comparison is only informative for Ukraine, with countries which have a similar difficult situation and transition from the 1990s.

    Obviously, Ukraine is very economically mismanaged. But to assess extent of mismanagement, you have to compare to countries with the same challenging situation.

    Your point about India is interesting. (India is not a relevant comparison country for Ukraine of course).

    India’s economy is growing very strongly, but the Indian population is also increasing with incredible rapidity, and this rapid population increase diluting their “per capita” figures.

    I checked in the IMF database, and their projection is that India will still not surpassing Ukraine in per capita GDP by 2023.

    Lol look at the population figure for India in the table.

    https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2018/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=73&pr.y=5&sy=2019&ey=2023&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=534%2C926&s=NGDPDPC%2CPPPPC%2CLP&grp=0&a=

    There will be another 72 million Indians between now and 2023 – wtf. If India does not mismanage its development, will be a very powerful superpower by the later part of this century.

  56. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Dmitry wrote 3,568

    Lol 🙂 to be fair I think about 1/3 of these because I often post and delete (by clearing) my comments and then repost the same comment again (to edit the grammar) so they don’t get moderated and to extend the 5 minute edit limit. I found these deleted comments are still included in our commenting count.

    Do you think Reiner might also do this obsessive deleting and reposting of the same comments to edit his grammar, because he was the guy told me how to do it?

    • Replies: @AP
  57. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    That’s a fair point, though this does raise an interesting question–why exactly didn’t the Ukrainian courts stop him from doing this?

    Indeed. And it was a direct violation of the post-Orange Revolution constitution, which explicitly forbade party-switching.

    Yanukovich changed the judges and put people from his region, beholden to him, on the court. The new court rendered the previous reforms invalid, thus switching now became legal.

    what do you think the odds would have been of pro-Russian parties winning a majority of the seats in the Ukrainian parliament?

    In the next parliamentary vote the pro-Russian forces lost the popular vote. However, the fake Yanukovich parliament passed election laws that enabled Yanukovich’s party to win the majority of seats despite losing the popular vote in that election.

    Essentially, there was no way to peacefully take power from Yanukovich.

    Yanukovich was down by double digits in the presidential polls prior to being overthrown. Already a special law was passed making one opponent ineligible, and another candidate leading in the polls was already under investigation. There was also talk of turning Ukraine into a parliamentary republic with Yanukovich as PM and the presidency as a ceremonial post.

    The Ukrainian people didn’t wait to find out what trick Yanukovich would use to stay in power.

    As you know, 2010 was a pro-Russian year in Ukraine and thus one wonders whether the pro-Russian forces could have won a parliamentary majority in Ukraine fair and square at that point in time

    Oops, I didn’t catch this comment. Hard to say if pro-Russian forces would have won parliamentary in 2010. One of the reasons Tymoshenko lost was because the pro-Western side was split (Yushchenko was in effect campaigning against her, and this probably cost the pro-Westerns side a percentage or two at least). But in parliamentary elections everyone would have voted for their preferred party. It would have been closer than in 2012 but I suspect Western parties would have had collectively more votes.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  58. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    I do that too. Also, at work I have cookies blocked so to see all posts I have to make a comment (I just write the letter “v”) and delete it, then all the most recent posts appear.

  59. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    they are importing and exporting pretty much nothing compared to 2013/2014

    FYI Ukraine’s exports peaked under Yushchenko:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/exports

    After 2013 Ukraine lost regions accounting for about 20% of its exports.

    It’s most recent export figure is about 74% of its 2013 figure. So the rest of Ukraine has seen a modest drop in exports collectively, not “prety much nothing.” But Sovok can’t add.

    Probably places like Kharkiv have been hit the hardest, whereas exports in the west and center are higher than they were in 2013.

    Moldova’s growth is far exceeding Ukraine’s pitiful fake growth ( as is Priednistroviye, where I think wages are also higher)

    Adjusted for living costs, Ukraine’s wages are higher than those in Moldova, Armenia and Georgia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

    The difference between Russia and Ukraine is smaller than the difference between Russia and Poland.

    that PPP figure ( whilst still being crap) for Ukraine, is almost certainly not true, and just more lies.

    According to Sovok that can’t add, as we have established.

    Is ANY Ukrainian civilian even thinking that BS is plausbile? Of course not

    Ukraine having a GDP PPP slightly lower than Armenia but easily higher than Moldova is certainly plausible.

  60. @AP

    Minor point, but you’re incorrect on LE.

    Russia’s LE in 2017 – 72.7 years via Rosstat (will probably be ~73.5 in 2018)
    Ukraine’s LE in 2017 – 72.0 years

    This is a pretty bad development for Ukraine, because for most history (even during the late Russian Empire!) it has been 1-3 years higher than Russia.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Mr. XYZ
  61. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    This is probably due to the catastrophe in Donbas and the lower life expectancy of the Sovok community in Ukraine. So gerard is laughing at the expense of his own people.

    In Lviv oblast, in 2017 life expectancy was 78 for women and 69 for men (about 74 overall), two years more than the Ukrainian average:

    http://www.lv.ukrstat.gov.ua/ukr/themes/19/theme_19.php?code=19

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Adam
  62. LatW says:
    @AP

    Poland and Ukraine are going to work on an air defense project together (it’s on the same blog).

    • Replies: @AP
  63. @AP

    Russia’s LE will approach ~73.5 years in 2018 (deaths fell by 0.4% Jan-Nov, which is pretty good as the Russian population is ageing).
    With LE for Lvov at about 74 years, and deaths in Ukraine increasing 1.5% Jan-Oct, the Ukraine probably won’t eke out any gain in LE; presumably neither will Lvov, if its performance is average.
    So, just 0.5-1 years will separate the Russian average LE from the longest lived Ukrainian regions outside Kiev. And it will make the gap between Russia and the most Russian areas in the Ukraine all the more awful, probably around 3-4 years by now.
    Ukraine’s mismanagement of its “sovok” areas has been criminal. It has failed in its duty of care to those people.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    , @AP
  64. AP says:
    @LatW

    Ukraine is important for Visegrad/Intermarium to have independent military capability.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  65. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    Sovok can’t add.

    In 2018 I wrote 2,775 comments; Dmitry wrote 3,568 and reiner tor wrote over 4,000.

    LOL….What’s most disturbing is that in reading up that statistic you have blatantly physically looked at the fact you have written nearly a million words on here, far in excess of those other posters…and yet still typed this misdirection BS.

    [MORE]

    That’s not including sockpuppet accounts, and the endless spamtrolling on a whole series of pro-Russia blogs that a mentallysick f-tard as yourself obviously is. The spamtroll element of it, the multiplier effect of doing it on so many different blogs like the diseased nutjob you are, and the sheer volume and insidious scumbag element of it combined , are the essence of my post you idiot.

    but aside from your psychiatrically disturbed spamposting, it would be a false comparison – Dmitry has great knowledge in Russia, Eastern Europe, US, Israel, the arts, science and technology – as part of a natural, intelligent and curious blog discussion, he could easily do plenty more posts on here, and it would be in no way like the sad, sick, deranged freak f**ktard stuff to time-waste and do nothing else…..that accurately describes how a waster lowlife as yourself acts.
    It would be like comparing a famous international sportsman with bad knees because of his exertions………to some obese maggot lowlife as yourself with bad knees because of the strain from being obese.

    Galicians still live longer than Russians.

    hahaha! LOL. Muscovites and most populated cities in Russia live years longer than Galicians. WTF is your point you demented imbecile? Low industry, agricultural area – this gives a very high life expectancy for Chechnya/Dagestan/Ingushetia, Kabardino-Balkar….this is the model you are trying to represent and promote for Galicia you stupid dumbf**k!? As it is, the Galician life expectancy is much less then the Kavkaz one, with near identical wage bracket as well.

    Ukraine’s lowest life expectancy is in the Sovok areas. If Ukraine has slipped a little behind it is because of its Sovoks

    err….1.a demented nutjob as youself shouldn’t have any right to use that term
    2. working in Industrial, economically important regions is why Illinois probably has a lower LE than Montana you thick POS. As it is the difference across Ukraine is minimal, and should be much larger…if western Ukraine wasn’t the absolute catastrophe that it is.
    Even more stupid you would then try and promote that statistic ( complete with the inexcuseable event of the huge female to male LE difference still applying in lazy Lvov as it would in a highly industrialised, well-populated region of Ukraine.

    If Poroshenko proposed raising the Pension retirement age to 65 for men – he would struggle to get 0.0001% of the vote.

    Ukraine’s lowest life expectancy is in the Sovok areas. If Ukraine has slipped a little behind it is because of its Sovoks

    Another false, timewasting lie.
    Ukraine’s life expectancy as even an attention-whore maggot as yourself knows, is below 72, somewhere from 71-72, so yet again you are lying by using braindead fake links.

    Russia’s has just reached the 73 mark,

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    , @AP
  66. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AP

    Belarus is also important for Intermarium due to its strategic depth, no?

    • Replies: @AP
  67. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Gerard2

    I don’t know what exactly it is that makes you shitpost about Ukrainians.

    • Replies: @AP
  68. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Why exactly did Ukrainians historically live longer than Russians?

  69. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Ukraine’s mismanagement of its “sovok” areas has been criminal. It has failed in its duty of care to those people.

    Well, if there will be another war between Ukraine and the Donbass, Russia would get the opportunity to capture these areas and to bring good government there. Of course, Russia would also have to deal with crippling Western sanctions as a result of such a move–in the unlikely event that Russia actually decides to pull this off, that is.

  70. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Ukraine’s mismanagement of its “sovok” areas has been criminal. It has failed in its duty of care to those people.

    It has been callous, but then again the Russian state’s actions of keeping the Donbas war going has made a significant contributed to the lack of public services in the Sovok regions.

    • Replies: @Adam
  71. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    He is a Sovok and Ukraine negates his kind’s existence. He was bitter about AK’s condemnation of the Soviet monstrosity also.

  72. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    you have written nearly a million words on here,

    I’ve been here since 2007, Dmitry’s been here for basically a year, yet he has almost half my word total.

    Sovok can’t count again 🙂

    That’s not including sockpuppet accounts, and the endless spamtrolling on a whole series of pro-Russia blogs

    LOL, you are paranoid. No wonder you stalk me. I only post regularly here. I once posted on Motyl’s blog and on the Atlantic comments but those are all gone.

    Galicians still live longer than Russians.

    hahaha! LOL. Muscovites and most populated cities in Russia live years longer than Galicians.

    Muscovites also live longer than most Russians. But Galicians live longer than the Russian average, which includes Moscow.

    working in Industrial, economically important regions is why Illinois probably has a lower LE than Montana

    Lviv has twice the population of Luhansk, yet Galicians live longer than do the Sovoks in Luhansk.

    Judging by your hysterical response, that really hurts you, Sovok 🙂

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  73. Adam says:
    @AP

    Aren’t most of the people in the ‘Sovok community’ ethnically Ukrainian? It seems like you throw your own people under the bus if they make Ukraine look bad.

    • Replies: @AP
  74. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AP

    Indeed. And it was a direct violation of the post-Orange Revolution constitution, which explicitly forbade party-switching.

    Yanukovich changed the judges and put people from his region, beholden to him, on the court. The new court rendered the previous reforms invalid, thus switching now became legal.

    Was Yanukovych able to appoint a lot of judges at the very beginning of his Presidency? Based on what I’ve read, the Ukrainian courts approved this party switching at the very beginning of Yanukovych’s Presidency. I’ve also read that Yanukovych’s back-up plan was to hold new parliamentary elections in 2010 in the event that the Ukrainian courts would refuse to accept party switching.

    The idea of holding new parliamentary elections in Ukraine in 2010 is discussed in this article (among other articles):

    https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/yanukovych-has-yet-to-secure-ruling-majority-in-pa-60468.html

    In the next parliamentary vote the pro-Russian forces lost the popular vote. However, the fake Yanukovich parliament passed election laws that enabled Yanukovich’s party to win the majority of seats despite losing the popular vote in that election.

    One wonders whether having an unpopular incumbent President hurt Yanukovych’s party in the 2012 elections. In other words, I wonder if the Party of Regions would have done better in the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary elections had Tymoshenko won in 2010.

    Essentially, there was no way to peacefully take power from Yanukovich.

    Yanukovich was down by double digits in the presidential polls prior to being overthrown. Already a special law was passed making one opponent ineligible, and another candidate leading in the polls was already under investigation. There was also talk of turning Ukraine into a parliamentary republic with Yanukovich as PM and the presidency as a ceremonial post.

    Yeah, I’m certainly not going to dispute that Yanukovych was authoritarian-minded and that the only way to get rid of him had he turned Ukraine into a parliamentary republic would have been for all of the opposition parties to unite into one party. Else, they’d simply keep splitting the opposition vote and allowing the PoR to keep on winning.

    The Ukrainian people didn’t wait to find out what trick Yanukovich would use to stay in power.

    One does wonder if Yanukovych had already ran out of tricks by late February 2014 and if it would have been better for the agreement that the Ukrainian opposition had signed with Yanukovych (in February 2014, right before he was ousted) to stick and for new elections to be held in late 2014, though.

    Getting rid of Yanukovych immediately in February 2014 was a high-risk gamble in the sense that Russia could have militarily intervened to a much greater extent than it did in real life. Putin was probably afraid of a crippling Western response, but if he would have been willing to deal with crippling Western sanctions on Russia, he could have theoretically sent the Russian military to conquer all of Novorossiya in 2014.

    While the locals in most of Novorossiya were unwilling to fight for Russia in 2014, their passivity could have also worked the other way–as in, having them be unwilling to fight against Russia if Russia would have conquered all of Novorossiya.

    Oops, I didn’t catch this comment. Hard to say if pro-Russian forces would have won parliamentary in 2010. One of the reasons Tymoshenko lost was because the pro-Western side was split (Yushchenko was in effect campaigning against her, and this probably cost the pro-Westerns side a percentage or two at least). But in parliamentary elections everyone would have voted for their preferred party. It would have been closer than in 2012 but I suspect Western parties would have had collectively more votes.

    Are you suggesting that most of the people who voted “Against all” in the second round of the 2010 Ukrainian presidential elections actually preferred Tymoshenko over Yanukovych?

    Also, Yanukovych won by about 3.5% in 2010; thus, a flip of slightly less than 2% would have been required to reverse the election outcome that year. Interestingly enough, though, Yanukovych’s victory margin would have been something like nine times smaller–as in, about 0.4% instead of 3.5%–had Crimea already been a part of Russia in 2010.

    Anyway, what I find interesting is that, even in 2007, the pro-Western side only won the Ukrainian parliamentary elections by something like 1% (44% to 43% for the pro-Russian parties, if I recall correctly–with the rest of the voters voting for parties which didn’t cross the threshold to make it into the Ukrainian parliament that year). 2007 was before the Great Recession and thus I am wondering whether, even with pro-Western demographic trends, pro-Russian parties could have narrowly pulled off a victory in Ukrainian parliamentary elections had these elections been held in 2010. Overall, I’d have put their odds of success at around 50%–it would have simply been too close to call, in my honest opinion.

    In addition to this, I’ve got another question for you: Had Ukraine joined the Eurasian Union and new elections been held in Ukraine which would have resulted in pro-Western parties being put back into power in Ukraine (something which would have been extremely likely, IMHO), would Ukraine have subsequently withdrawn from the Eurasian Union?

    Also, would a Ukrainian withdrawal from the Eurasian Union in such a scenario have triggered a separatist/secessionist movement in the pro-Russian regions of Ukraine? If so, would this movement have been smaller, the same size as, or larger than the separatist movement in the Donbass in real life?

    • Replies: @AP
  75. Adam says:
    @AP

    But the war relegated to a small part of Ukraine, and the whole of southern and eastern Ukraine is very dysfunctional (though Donbass has always been the worst of them all). Again, blaming everything bad on in Ukraine on Sovoks in Donbass doesn’t seem very convincing, but I’m no expert.

    • Replies: @AP
  76. AP says:
    @Adam

    The only one gloating about their misery is gerard2. I just point out that he does so. Sovoks make everyone look bad. People in Russia use Ukraine’s Sovoks as evidence of how bad Ukraine has become. Ukrainian nationalists use Ukraine’s Sovoks as evidence of how bad Russia must be. Both sides are wrong. But the constant here is is that Sovoks lead f–cked up lives.

    Aren’t most of the people in the ‘Sovok community’ ethnically Ukrainian?

    Sovoks are a deracinated people, neither Ukrainian nor Russian.

    • Replies: @Adam
    , @Anonymous
  77. Adam says:
    @AP

    There are large swaths of Ukraine that have very high rates of alcoholism, drug abuse, HIV, crime, murder, and it’s not just Donbass. Yes, those areas are also the most Russified, but they’re still majority Ukrainian and the people there by and large support Ukraine, though with less enthusiasm than the core Ukrainian areas.

    It’s idiotic to gloat about it like gerard2 does; it’s tragic and Russia suffers from the same pathologies. However, you can’t just hand wave it away as a product of Sovoks, these are your coethnics and the obligation of the Ukrainian state to provide for its people isn’t confined to Galicia and Kiev.

    • Replies: @AP
  78. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Was Yanukovych able to appoint a lot of judges at the very beginning of his Presidency?

    It only took a couple to flip the balance of power in his favor.

    One wonders whether having an unpopular incumbent President hurt Yanukovych’s party in the 2012 elections. In other words, I wonder if the Party of Regions would have done better in the 2012 Ukrainian parliamentary elections had Tymoshenko won in 2010.

    Likely, unless Ukraine improved a lot under Tymoshenko.

    But it would have meant the Orange parties winning by 1%-2% rather than 6%.

    Are you suggesting that most of the people who voted “Against all” in the second round of the 2010 Ukrainian presidential elections actually preferred Tymoshenko over Yanukovych?

    I think so. Or rather, they were pro-Western but didn’t like her. I personally know two pro-Western people who did that – voted against all. They assumed that Yanukovich would be constrained by an Opposition parliament anyways, it would just be gridlock for 5 years. They didn’t imagine he would get total control over the country.

    In addition to against all, anger at Tymoshenko probably also depressed vopter turnout in Western regions (Yushchenko was telling his supporters not to vote at all). This plus against all would easily have amounted to a 2% advantage to Yanukovich.

    In addition to this, I’ve got another question for you: Had Ukraine joined the Eurasian Union and new elections been held in Ukraine which would have resulted in pro-Western parties being put back into power in Ukraine (something which would have been extremely likely, IMHO), would Ukraine have subsequently withdrawn from the Eurasian Union?

    I don’t know It would have been locked in to an extent, so withdrawal would have been messier than not going in, in the first place.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  79. AP says:
    @Adam

    But the war relegated to a small part of Ukraine, and the whole of southern and eastern Ukraine is very dysfunctional (though Donbass has always been the worst of them all)

    Donbas saw its GRP decline by 60% or so. While other eastern areas are damaged, Donbas is an outlier that really skews all-national figures.

  80. AP says:
    @Adam

    However, you can’t just hand wave it away as a product of Sovoks

    The Soviet died, as it should have, but unfortunately it left behind a legacy of Sovok people. When a people’s world collapses you get massive social dysfunction. It’s a process seen in American Indian reservations. Sovoks after the fall of the USSR are dysfunctional like American Natives.

    Replacing their Sovok worldview with a nationalistic one (either Russian or Ukrainian) is a way forward for these people. The people who are already past Sovoks, such as central Ukrainians and in Russia itself, are much less dysfunctional than places like Donbas. And Galicia, with much less Sovok influence, is the least dysfunctional of all.

    Ukraine hadn’t been up to the task of nation-building in these regions before. But with Putin’s help, it is finally starting to do this.

  81. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AP

    It only took a couple to flip the balance of power in his favor.

    How many judges does Ukraine’s Supreme Court have?

    Likely, unless Ukraine improved a lot under Tymoshenko.

    But it would have meant the Orange parties winning by 1%-2% rather than 6%.

    So, basically, a repeat of the 2007 Ukrainian elections, correct?

    I think so. Or rather, they were pro-Western but didn’t like her. I personally know two pro-Western people who did that – voted against all. They assumed that Yanukovich would be constrained by an Opposition parliament anyways, it would just be gridlock for 5 years. They didn’t imagine he would get total control over the country.

    In addition to against all, anger at Tymoshenko probably also depressed vopter turnout in Western regions (Yushchenko was telling his supporters not to vote at all). This plus against all would easily have amounted to a 2% advantage to Yanukovich.

    I do hope that you are correct in regards to this.

    Also, was pro-Western turnout likewise depressed in the 2007 Ukrainian elections? If so, was that due to Orange infighting and incompetence?

    I don’t know It would have been locked in to an extent, so withdrawal would have been messier than not going in, in the first place.

    Just how locked in would Ukraine have been?

    Also, Britain voted to withdraw from the European Union in spite of it being locked into Europe–and this is in spite of the fact that Britain was much more united when it entered the European Union (something like two-thirds of British voters voted in favor of joining the European Union in 1975, IIRC) than Ukraine would have been if/when it would have entered the Eurasian Union (considering that a majority of Ukrainian voters might have very well been opposed to such a move).

    It seems to me that the likely Russian attempts to create a deeper and deeper union (with a common currency, common parliament, et cetera) might have very well had the same effects in Ukraine (had it joined the Eurasian Union, of course) that the European Union’s attempts at deeper and deeper integration had in Britain–specifically create feelings of anger, resentment, and opposition that might very well eventually culminate in a withdrawal from this union.

    Of course, in Ukraine’s case, I don’t know if eastern and/or southern Ukraine would have peacefully accepted a Ukrainian withdrawal from the Eurasian Union.

  82. J. Gutierrez says, “the thread is about Venezuela”

    More than half of the comments refer to Russsia, Ukraine and other Eastern European countries.

    I guess most of you don’t see the how US economic warfare against Venezuela’s elected government because they refuse to step down will lead to war very soon. The people of Venezuela want to live a normal, happy life without interference. Evereybody knows the US wants Maduro out so they can put in a puppet. This allows the US Oil companies access to their oil. I bet most of you haven’t heard of the Spot Market! We the people in Latin America know about it because that’s where all stolen oil is sold. It’s the black market for oil that is taken from countries that make deals with corrupt US government officials, the US oil companies, the US Banks, etc.

    This is how it works,

    the US produces 10% of the world’s oil and the remaining OPEC nations produce 50%. Where does the other 40% of the oil needed for consumption come from? 40% o the worlds oil is not reported and sold on the world’s black market. The Spot Market located in Rotterdam was established in 1959 by British firm, Halsey Peckworth and Shell Oil. They constructed Refineries in all regions controlled by Multi-National Oil corporations. The Spot Market sets the price o crude on a daily basis, independent from the NYSE or any other influence. Mexican Oil has been sold on the Spot Market by Mexican corrupt officials and Ex-Presidents without the knowledge of the Mexican people. I’m sure Iraq, Libya, Syria, Africa, Colombia and other countries where the US does business or has made regime change, have a big percentage of their oil sold in the Spot Market.

    Most people think the next world war hasn’t started but I believe it has it has been going on since 9-11. Benjamin Netenyahoo has visited Colombia and Brazil recently to congratulate the Right Wing leaders and prepare them for war with Venezuela. Venezuela has armed citizens, neighborhood Militias and well equipped Armed Forces…If Russia and China enter the conflict in support o Venezuela the US will have a hard time winning that war.

    I hope this doesn’t happen, but every day I see people in America talking about invadeing and killing people in other countries like they’re talking about goling bto a ootball game.m They drool over Military Equipment and the latest technology used to kill people. They watch News Anchors live stream a missle hittinga building praising how accurate the laser guided system was. It;s truely sickening see how easy Americans can go to war based on lies…Who gives a shit if Venezuela is a Socialist country, I don’t as long as they happy with it!

  83. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    [MORE]

    Valtsman being Poroshenko’s secret Jewish name is fake news only a Sovok would believe. Let me guess: you also believe kids were being crucified in Donbas?

    bizarre. AGAIN a completely use of that term which a discredited tramp as yourself has no right to use. Plenty of people throughout Ukraine believe it ( because it’s true) you idiot. This freak’s involvement in drugs, prostitution and other criminality is well-known, his modern-day corruption and criminality at this moment is well known. Valtsman/Poroshenko is also the son of a mafioso boss who spent years in jail, because of his gangsterism you idiot

    Fortunately “Ukrainians” have been spared all these years from watching this fake Christian/actual jew do any Epiphany Dive

    Let me guess: you also believe kids were being crucified in Donbas?

    this is REALLY BIZARRE – you know that the whole point that makes this credible is the thoroughly documented evidence and testimony that show in abundance how this type of despicable behaviour was fairly routine for the nauseating vermin Galician Banderatards in the 1940’s. Your lowest common denominator ancestor vermin did vomit-incducing sadist acts like that all the time. Natural to assume these modern-day Deliverance-like Banderatards constantly praising those apes from the 1940’s, no reliable source of income, and general idiots… could do these vile acts.

    the woman making the claim , seemed genuine, and the numerous vile crimes commited by the ukrop’s make this credible and only 1 stitch in a disgusting tapestry of the worst type of mankind, as shown by the Kiev Nazi regime in the last 5 years.

    sniper-fire kill of residents ( some women on their balconies) in Donbass, burning innocent’s alive in Odessa, the uninvestigated killing of 100 Maidanites of which Parubiy is heavily linked to have organised, numerous war crimes in Donbass, destroying a 400 million airport that under the first Minsk Agreement was not theirs to hold, forcing pensioners to make arduous half-day journeys to collect their pension… but here we come to the crux of ukrop thinking, (or in you case, fantasist nutjob ukrop with plenty of spare time)- of tortures, beatings, shootings, killings, maimings of 1000’s of innocents

    Mostly only for Sovoks in the East.

    The rest of the country has seen its living standards (if one means GDP PPP) recover. Crime is now back to 2013 level (AK posted this before). “Mass exodus” means Ukrainians now have access to jobs that pay 4x more, like Poles have in the Western EU, tjhat they did not have access to before.

    Lie after lie mixed with more attention-whoring time-wasting. It’s not even apparent you know where ‘East ” is in your pre-panned trolling moronism. Even more bizarre considering Lvov with it’s ghosttown barely makes it into the top 10 highest wage areas in the poorest state in Europe.

    You are comparing Polish movement AFTER they have gained access to the EU you thick twat, to ukrops who have already mass-fled to Russia for years and now mass flee to Russia and Poland now ( which they could easily have done after 2004 under Polish, not EU specific regulation, but didn’t because they are a Russian people)….and mostly can’t afford to go to Spain, Portugal, much of Italy..and aren’t under the EU Assoc Agreement allowed to go to the UK at all

    Polands movement allows them to go and work and live in the UK for years( along with Scandinavia is basically a golden ticket allowing them a big social-benefit pay safety net whilst acquiring or earning from a job in the UK). It allows them to live and work however long they like in Germany and anywhere else in the EU, not to mention the market access which in turn creates more job opportunities….it also shows they needed to keep their workforce together to get to the position of joining the EU first, you idiot, before any mass exodus.

    Ukrops agreement, as explained before enables eff-all you idiot…except to work as slaves and prostitutes. As it is they gained access to travel to UAE,KSA/Qatar recently but just like with France/Sweden and so on, they cant afford the journey there to then take advantage of a money making opportunity….except in their ever growing prostitute sector which is in demand in the Middle East.

    As such to even compare Polands migration situation with Ukraine is even dumber and more shameful than the sociopathic deflecting and nonsense about the fact that Russians live longer than ukrops , despite the severe cold/daylight problems in much of the country.

    As it is Moscow citizen earns 5 times more than a person in Lvov (4x for Kiev), factor in other issues like energy and tax and authority competance and it is more like 12 times higher you retard. Plenty of places in Russia it is more like 5x+ higher wage than anywhere in Ukraine.

    Average family income of Ukrainians in the USA:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income#By_ancestry

    Ukrainian American (2016): $72,449

    That must really hurt 🙂

    errr…..Fake statistic, (which curiously listed ukrops at 40+ place in the list, before a sociopath as you was informed) …to which it then magically gave this fake number, that only a freak as yourself could have edited…which is still below Russia’s , by a distance, anyway.

    At 40+ place, “Ukrainians” are basically the worst white ethnic group. Base founder generation groups (Brits,Germans and Dutch ) obviously don’t count, and Czechs haven’t had the population exodus to warrant any significant analysis of their emmigrants to the US……which leaves us with the hopeless Banderatards…accomplishing nothing you dumb POS.

    Armenians are only further down because of the many Armenians in America who came from the middle East, not Russian Empire,

  84. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP

    Sovoks are merely the entire population of Ukraine. As your argument makes no sense, then neither does your definition.

    One would expect the rate of crime to be bigger in areas of intense business. Odessa,Kiev,Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov and Donetsk. That , and not any childish name-calling as befits a weak mind, is the issue

    People in Russia use Ukraine’s Sovoks as evidence of how bad Ukraine has become. Ukrainian nationalists use Ukraine’s Sovoks as evidence of how bad Russia must be.

    Any proof to back-up this far-fetched claim? Everyone I have talked to says Russia is monstrously more wealthy than Ukraine and no self-respecting nationalist of Ukraine argues on the contrary. Presumably the Algerians didn’t argue that Frenchmen were backwards when they wanted to split from them. Nor the Burmese nationalists from Britain

    What is the difference between a Nationalist of Ukraine and a Sovok?
    One is a dumbo who goes over whatever happened in the 15th century, the other one doesn’t. Otherwise both act , eat and sleep identically

    • Replies: @AP
  85. AP says:
    @Anonymous

    Sovoks are merely the entire population of Ukraine.

    Nonsense. While unfortunately all peoples in Ukraine have been subject to some corruption due to exposure to Soviet filth, not all are Sovoks.

    One would expect the rate of crime to be bigger in areas of intense business

    Mafia, prostitution, and street crime are indeed “intense business.” Its what Sovoks do best.

    Odessa,Kiev,Dnepropetrovsk, Kharkov and Donetsk.

    Prior to 2013, Kiev had about 60% the crime rate of Donetsk.

    And Lviv, the least Sovok part of Ukraine, had twice the population of Luhansk but less than half of the crime rate. Less business in Lviv than Luhansk? LOL. Less mafia, prostitution, and crime “business” for sure.

    People in Russia use Ukraine’s Sovoks as evidence of how bad Ukraine has become. Ukrainian nationalists use Ukraine’s Sovoks as evidence of how bad Russia must be.

    Any proof to back-up this far-fetched claim?

    Nothing far-fetched about it. We see it on this very comment section. Russians gloating about Ukraine’s economic “collapse” or its poor life expectancy performance. These stats are all driven by the terrible situation in the Sovok areas of Ukraine.

    In Ukraine, nationalists make ridiculous claims about Russian cities being dangerous or dirty, or mafia-infested, based upon the state of Donbas cities.

    Ukraine’s Sovoks serve as a convenient foil for both Russian and Ukrainian nationalists to highlight the supposed superiority of their own nations.

  86. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    [MORE]

    LOL, you are paranoid. No wonder you stalk me. I only post regularly here. I once posted on Motyl’s blog and on the Atlantic comments but those are all gone.

    haha! Once again plagiarizing my comment about yourself (i.projection) – “stalking” being my main point about you, you thick POS.
    I only reply to about 0.2% of your posts, as we are talking about a million comments ( plus hours and hours of scouring Wikipedia for “research” by yourself in between comments)…that 0.2% is still a large number but totally appropriate you idiot. You write millions on this ( way more than the perfectly normal and balanced Dmitry,) and the sockpuppets….and hilariously I know for a fact it is a really deranged nutjob fantasy to claim you only write on 3 things.
    It totally must be at least 90 million words a sick freak like you has written these last couple of years

    Judging by your hysterical response, that really hurts you, Sovok 🙂

    Really bizarre projections…you know you have your period when your obsessive stalking, spamtrolling is mentioned on here….you know I’m not the first to mention it…and almost certainly won’t be the last

    On the life expectancy issue…because you are a sick non-life you can go hours arguing with BS on indisputable and hilarious facts…..that I almost injured myself from laughter when I found out

    Most hilarious is that your BS fake argument relies on claiming the Ingushetia is better than Moscow….and Lvov is Ingushetia(-lite, and by some distance)……then your dumbfuck retardedness means saying that Russia has very well increased the LE, after getting 2 million from Crimea, and 4million not with the Nazi regime area in Donbass….and Ukropia have subsequently lost that russophile population and their Life expectancy is in dissaray you thick sack of faeces

    Funny by pitiful at the same time you imbecile…anyway mustn’t keep you from your 22 hour shift on here.

    • Replies: @AP
  87. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    Ukropia have subsequently lost that russophile population and their Life expectancy is in dissaray

    Again, you gloat at the fact that your fellow-Sovoks in Ukraine live short lives and seem to enjoy the fact that this drags down Ukraine’s overall life expectancy.

    [MORE]

    about yourself (i.projection) – “stalking”

    Until recently 70% of your posts were replies to mine.

    But now, “only” 4 out of the your last 10 posts were replies t0 mine. So you are down to 40%. Progress.

    I do not have such a pattern with you or anybody.

    So you are a stalker and the projection is all yours.

    Even sadder is that you take effort to try to “find” my posts on other forums.

    your BS fake argument relies on claiming the Ingushetia is better than Moscow

    Your Sovok “logic” at work?

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