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Arpad Virag – Eastern Europe and the Swine Right

Although I am the furthest thing from a Croatia/Balkan expert, all his observations strike me as true in… well, pretty much every country I have looked at (from the US, to France, to Germany, to Russia, intelligence favors liberalism and discriminates against nationalism), so I assume they are true in general.

Core theses:

  1. Eastern Europe is already far more ruled by progressives (Blue Empire, Cathedral, Polygon, George Soros…) than most on the Right are willing to admit;
  2. The Left holds a monopoly on respectable intellectual positions partially because of the miserable state of the Right;

In support for #1:

How do Croats feel about gay marriage and LGBT rights? Nominally, they resist, but the gay pride parade in Zagreb is not only huge, but even the most fearless football hooligans were easily convinced not to give any resistance to the new wave of human rights. Everyone hip in Zagreb has a gay friend. …

And how are the rest of the countries around doing? Guess .

These are all individual, anecdotal evidence, dealing with only one small country – you may take them seriously or not, but don’t forget the good ol’ Moldbuggian wisdom – trends among the tiny elite is what shapes the future, not the bleating of millions of sheep. Tea Party movement is nonexistent today, while the editors of NYT aren’t exactly dealing with plummeting readership.

All of this is backed up by opinion polls.

One of my frequent arguments has been is that Eastern Europe was essentially kept in an ideological “freezer” for half a century under Communism. This opened the floodgates for the seepage of American soft power and values.

The coming decades there will basically involve a dynamic struggle between continued cultural Americanization, and resurgent nationalism based on observing the increasingly evident failure of the multiculturalism experiment in Western Europe.

In support for #2:

Definition of the Swine Right:

The rightist Swine is a nominally conservative type who is openly promoting traditional values such as God, homeland and family but in reality he’s a treacherous calculated Machiavellian type of low moral virtue, high time preference and low loyalty. The same way a leftist activist is constantly talking about the oppressed proletariat and while raising his own political power and enriching himself with other people’s money, the Swine of the Right is constantly talking about the virtue of raising a family, the depth of his faith and the love of his homeland, and at the same time using every possible opportunity to raise his political power and wealth in the most corrupt and criminal way possible, regardless of the consequence to the things he nominally holds dear. The Swine usually has very little manners, and behaves like a brute despite of his education. In short, The Swine is a swindler and a charlatan who successfully uses right wing rhetoric to expand his wealth and political power. In a way, he is either a communist apparatchik who successfully replaced the hammer and a sickle with the cross or the village brute who finds it very convenient to sit in the first row on a Sunday mass.

The author illustrates this behavior using a number of Croatian political figures, necessarily obscure to non-Croatians, but I think we all know their equivalents in our own countries

And even at the highest levels – Trump, Orban, Putin… one can’t deny that this describes all of them to at least some extent.

Imagine some smart college kid watching all this. On one hand, he sees The World League of Whores and Sodomites, but on the other fanged IQ90 swine who would gladly conscript him and have him die in trenches for a cause such as the glory of our national being, while their cousins are making millions selling weapons to the state. Some of them are lucky enough to be raised in an intellectually healthy environment and to see a possible alternative to progressive madness. However, a lot of them are simply not. If you’re a bookish guy from the countryside and came to the capital as a talented STEM student, there’s quite a large possibility that your new college friends are much nicer and much more intelligent than your village chief, parish priest or your high school history professor.

The Left often paints a picture of the Swine as a rural brutish chief, a member of HDZ or HSP with a fake high school diploma who wants to push his son through some joke of a private college and in the local government, and arrange sweet deals for his best mate just happens to own a construction company. While that is not so far from the truth, his leftist counterpart differs only in speaking fluent English, having a liberal arts college diploma and arranging sweet deals for his friends in NGOs. One will be ripping buttons off his shirt while drinking brandy and listening to turbo-folk, while the other one will be sipping craft beers while swinging hips to Depeche Mode. As you may or may not notice from my description, the latter is much much more high status. And although the level of criminality is roughly equal, the latter type is a far smoother criminal.

Some say we should simply apply the very well known leftist policy of no enemies to the left, no friends to the right – and they couldn’t be more wrong. Switching to no enemies to the right, is a classical fallacy of trying to imitate leftists policy (entropy) in order to create right wing results (order).

After a couple of beers the other night, a thought about this occurred: the classical no enemies quote is referring to the political spectrum, however it’s much more applicable to the IQ distribution: no loyalty to the left, no enemies to the right sounds like a viable Machiavellian solution. You cannot make friends with IQ80 people, regardless of them being Stormfront or BLM, because their time preference is way too high. And you should not make enemies out of IQ140 people because they will see to it that IQ80 crowd can crush you, see you driven before them and hear the lamentation of your women. Loyalty requires both sides to cooperate.

But the Right’s human capital problem makes it very hard to attract the high IQ, which results in Swine leaders, which lowers the prestige associated with being on the Right, exacerbating the human capital problem even further, etc.

So here’s a terrible thought for ya – from the perspective of a young man in Eastern Europe who wants peace, prosperity and order, the rule of the Cathedral might be a healthy alternative to the powers surrounding him. As long as a significant part of the Right acts like the above mentioned Swine, the Left will be even more than secure in it’s picture of intellectual and moral superiority.

Which is why I’m pretty skeptical about nationalism’s prospects in the long-term.

Note that neoliberalism.txt is good at weathering shocks. There are still many, many decades before the West turns into some combination of Beirut and Port-au-Prince, even under the most pessimistic scenarios.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Eastern Europe, Nationalism 
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  1. songbird says:

    If one looks at the political leaders of the Left – one does not notice a lot of human capital either. The essential difficulty is not one of human capital, IMO, but rather that Leftism is self-organizing. It is, in my view, an evolutionary strategy based on group power dynamics vs. the individual. It is as much built around groups as it is built around redistribution.

    See how readily the Left coalesces around leaders – the cult of personality – from Lenin to Mao to Jim Jones to Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. There is no comparison: it is primarily a leftist trait. See how they virtue signal – no comparison. Leftists are often more verbal. Words are good for organizing groups to take things. Not so good when you are trying to keep what is yours, as an individual against a group determined to take it. That is where violence prevails – but we are peaceful people nowadays.

  2. Mr. XYZ says:

    @Anatoly Karlin: Do you think that this trend is true for Israel as well?

    I mean, with the possible exception of ex-USSR immigrants to Israel, the most nationalistic Israelis appear to have lower IQs (on average, based on anecdotal evidence). However, at the same time, left-wing Israelis have also done a fair share of panicking about the risk of Israel losing its Jewish majority. Plus, the longer that the occupation of the West Bank (which right-wing Israelis are more willing to support) remains in place, the greater the likelihood that Israel will one day annex the West Bank and be forced to grant Israeli citizenship to the Palestinian Arabs who are living there. Thus, with their own policies, right-wing Israelis might ironically be setting the stage for Israel to eventually see a significant reduction in its Jewish majority (percentage-wise, that is).

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  3. Mr. XYZ says:

    Also, as a side note, I’m not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people) and a change of attitudes on Third World immigration. Indeed, I would think that even liberal Eastern Europeans would be aware of the failure of the multicultural experiment in Western Europe.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
    , @BlackFlag
    , @Hokie
  4. Dmitry says:

    A little offtopic:

    Toronto Russian (a user here – I’m not sure if he is a psychologist or not) posted something in response to me a few weeks ago, that psychologists nowadays use a personality trait called ‘openness to experience’ as something that correlates with liberalism to some extent.

    This is based on the ‘Five Factor Model’, which I am not qualified in the field to determine if it’s bullshit or not.

    Anyway according to the Wikipedia article on this subject, he is right that it correlates to some extent with liberalism. And amusingly- in relation to the Chad vs Virgin memes that have taken over our forum – the personality trait also correlated to how much sex you have:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openness_to_experience#Sexuality

    Psychology does seem useful in explaining why all the political shit clusters together, and we can’t just separate the important issues and talk about them in a rational way – i.e. that wanting to stop open border immigration is not relating to ‘support for traditionalist morality’.

  5. I can offer a number of solutions. Well, those won’t be solutions, but something to do to make each of us more suited to tackle the issues.

    One such improvement is cold showers and winter swimming.

    I used to find it difficult to go into the 26 or 27 Celsius pool of most swimming pools. I found 24 Celsius water extremely cold. But it’s easy to train. In fact, if you want to be heterosexual, you need to train yourself for it. Also there are health benefits, but wouldn’t it be just super cool to be able to swim in 3 Celsius water?

    I used to do it in dumb ways for years (my motto was “it takes at least an hour to look up how it needs to be done; why not waste a few years doing it the wrong way?”), but here I will give you how it needs to be done.

    So, the best thing is cold showers. Do it in the morning. Never in the evening. (Yes, I did it in the evening, because that’s when I was taking showers before. It disturbs your sleep if done in the evening.) Also, always before a workout. Never after. Cold bath or cold shower after workouts slows muscle growth. (Yes, it looked like a good idea to cool myself down after a workout.)

    The important thing is breathing. You should avoid hyperventilating while under a cold shower. Wim Hof proposes hyperventilating before, and slowing down breathing while under the cold shower. Most people (including currently myself – I’m working on my breathing) are hyperventilating by default, so I currently don’t do that, but maybe later I’ll come around to that. Wim Hof, after all, climbed the Everest without oxygen mask or wearing proper clothes (I mean, in swimming trunks), and I didn’t, so what do I know? Anyway, the way to slow down your breathing should be to just relax your diaphragm and in general try to relax.

    How to start? The first week will be easy. Do warm showers, very warm ones, for as long as you like. Then, after you finished, turn the water away from you, and turn it to the very coldest. Wait until it gets very cold. Then you have to do ten seconds under the cold water. Start with your feet, legs, then arms, then body and head. All the while try to breathe slowly, with relaxed diaphragm. After that, best to finish and dry yourself.

    The second week will be a bit more difficult. You start ten seconds under the cold water. Again, your feet, legs, arms, body and head. All the while breathing slowly, with relaxed diaphragm. Then warm shower, as long as you like. Then, you’ll have to finish with the cold, again ten seconds.

    The third week (you can progress a little slower, nobody will be watching) you need to get to thirty seconds, both start and finish. In between the long warm shower.

    You can stay here for a long time. The eventual goal is for ten minutes constant cold shower. I don’t have time for this anyway, so thirty-thirty seconds is good for the moment.

    Going into cold water will get noticeably easier. After a few months (the dumb way, bad breathing included) I did a winter swim at an event (there are a few such events in every country), the first second felt bad, but after that the adrenaline makes it okay. Believe me, the best thing is jumping into the water. Slowly getting into cold water is something I still find unpleasant. Jumping takes just one second of unpleasantness. (Besides, jumping is the heterosexual way.)

    You are an ambassador of the alt-right. Be heterosexual! Do cold showers!

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  6. @Mr. XYZ

    I’m not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people)

    There is no difference. It’s all one huge slippery slope, which contrary to leftist assertions is not a “fallacy”. There is also zero benefit to be had from sodomite “marriage”, giving defective freaks the same rights and recognition as normal families and allowing them to adopt children.

    Tolerance towards disgusting faggots appears together and in parallel with vegan protests, poison colored hair, aping everything western SJWs do, historic revisionism in history textbooks, media censorship, and ever more shitskin faces that I see every day in the Sofia metro.

    A few days ago there was also a video of a feral negress beating up a man in public transport apparently because he used the standard Bulgarian word for a black woman. It’s like I was watching a video from Sweden or Britbongistan – some white cuck taking abuse and other people around him sitting uselessly. Never thought I would see something like this here.

  7. @Spisarevski

    You’ve got Africans in Bulgaria? Is one nowhere safe from them?

    • Replies: @songbird
  8. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    @Anatoly Karlin: Do you think that this trend is true for Israel as well?

    I mean, with the possible exception of ex-USSR immigrants to Israel, the most nationalistic Israelis appear to have lower IQs (on average, based on anecdotal evidence). However, at the same time, left-wing Israelis have also done a fair share of panicking about the risk of Israel losing its Jewish majority. Plus, the longer that the occupation of the West Bank (which right-wing Israelis are more willing to support) remains in place, the greater the likelihood that Israel will one day annex the West Bank and be forced to grant Israeli citizenship to the Palestinian Arabs who are living there. Thus, with their own policies, right-wing Israelis might ironically be setting the stage for Israel to eventually see a significant reduction in its Jewish majority (percentage-wise, that is).

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?

    In Israel, it is famous, there’s supposedly a strong relation between the established upper class (that immigrated from Europe) and the more liberal viewpoints. Until maybe the 1990s, you surely would even find for Israelis a strong statistical correlation between lightness of skin and hair tones, and political views (lighter people would correlate positively with liberal views, due to the historical voting patterns between the demographics).

    However, since the 1990s, there are more things that complicate it, like increase in size of the multi-ethnic religious national movement, and the arrival of “Sausage Aliyah” of the 1990s which demographically has a high ratio of right-wing, authoritarian, angry people from every most backward parts of the Former Soviet Union, but also includes many academically qualified people.

    The interesting thing was the arrival of ‘Camembert Aliyah’ of the recent years, which is again relatively liberal middle class people from Moscow.

    There was reported that Camembert Aliyah has in general, on a political and aesthetic level, has been completely shocked by the Sausage aliyah.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  9. The two biggest problems with modern nationalism are…

    1. Economic and bureaucratic complexity
    2. Media diversity.

    IMO, the best hope for neo-nationalisms is to cast off into another country that will welcome them(i.e. really, Russia is the only option at first… as Moldbug says, there’s Russia, China, and the international community) and create small, economically specialized communities(tourism and translations could be a start). A sort of right wing fourierism where you need small communities(mimetic microutopias) that intentionally exhibits a set of values and way of life with the hope it will be seen and adopted.

  10. ‘…while the editors of NYT aren’t exactly dealing with plummeting readership…’

    But I was told the exact opposite:

    http://www.unz.com/article/an-obituary-of-the-new-york-times/

    Not quite the same as predicting the end of the world in 10 days, but still.

  11. AaronB says:

    For the past 50 years the Right hasn’t offered anything inspiring. The very word conservative is lame.

    In a secular world, the Left cannot lose. Its reign will be eternal. The Left offers human perfection on earth. Of building a perfect society.

    The only vision that has historically matched this was the vision of becoming spiritually perfect.

    Those are the only two choices. The Left will just keep on winning in a secular world.

    Conservatives offered realism and a sense of human limits to the Lefts quest for perfection. They misunderstood Tradition – which is about the quest for perfection just as much as Leftism is. Had the Right offered its own version of the quest for perfection, it might have stood a chance.

    So the Right has zero chance in a secular world, and will keep on losing and losing. And rightly. I would rather be an idealistic Leftist than a realistic conservative.

    The history of the conservative movement is one of the clearer demonstrations of the adage ‘man does not live by bread alone’.

    • Replies: @Carlo
    , @dfordoom
  12. I’ll turn to this later but first off:

    “but the gay pride parade in Zagreb is not only huge”

    lol, no it isn’t.

    “but even the most fearless football hooligans were easily convinced not to give any resistance to the new wave of human rights.”

    So much so that a referendum ended up enshrining the defintion of marriage as between a man and a woman in the country’s constitution.

    Alarmism is common in the ex-communist countries of Europe but it only serves to distort the actual picture which does us no good.

    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
  13. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    I shall answer with another question: is there any place worse than sub-Saharan Africa (aside from Haiti)?

    They migrate into South Africa because it is better than where they came from. Also, into North Africa and even – this is hardest to believe but true – into Yemen. All of Europe is at risk. The welfare just makes certain areas preferential, but no area is safe – not even the Donbass – because every area is better.

  14. Carlo says:
    @AaronB

    You nailed it. I would just add that most so called “conservatives” just want to rewind history some 5 or 6 decades back, but just like the leftists they despise the Middle Ages, when religion was a social value (not individual), and enforced as such by the state (the Inquisition couldn’t punish heretics or schismatics, they just inquired if they had true faith, if not asked them to recant and, last if they didn’t, just turned them over to the state to deal with whatever punishment the law envisioned).

    • Replies: @AaronB
  15. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    There was reported that Camembert Aliyah has in general, on a political and aesthetic level, has been completely shocked by the Sausage aliyah.

    Brutalization and fall in living standards is a mechanism to shift a demographic to more authoritarian and right-wing positions.

    Sausage Aliyah in Israel seems to be an example.

    -

    According to the history books, Sausage Aliyah had a high ratio of idealistic centrists when they arrived in Israel and voted for Rabin – before the brutalization during the 1990s and early 2000s.

    -

    It’s possible to believe in the brutalization, when you visit the kind of proletarian slums where ‘Sausage aliyah’ has settled, away from the desirable urban centers.

    For example, in Bat Yam, where they are mixed with lots of working class Moroccans and Iraqis.

    -

    Imagine building is also full of loud Moroccan families, and too hot and strong sunshine to go outside during the day, yet surrounded by pollution and car fumes.

    (Yes it could piss you off and make you less liberal).

    -

    The centre street of the town:

    Youth of Bat Yam joking about their origins

    Victory Day in Bat Yam

    Bat Yam slums – the second most densely populated place in Israel

    What kind of politics of people living in these buildings breeded…

    -
    -

    Politics of the demographic:

    Left-wing politicians (Herzog, Livni) – low representations overall.

    28,2% респондентов заявили, что хотели бы, чтобы главой правительства стал Авигдор Либерман. 27,4% хотят, чтобы на этом посту оставался Биньямин Нетаниягу. 12% хотят видеть премьер-министром Яира Лапида. От одного и более процента голосов также получили: Нафтали Беннет (4,2%), Моше Кахлон (3,6%), Ицхак Герцог (2,9%), Гидеон Саар (2,8%), Исраэль Кац (1,5%), Ципи Ливни (1,1%), Юлий Эдельштейн (1%).

    О желании видеть Либермана на посту премьер-министра чаще других говорили выходцы с востока Украины, пожилые люди, респонденты, приехавшие в Израиль в зрелом или пожилом возрасте, с доходом ниже среднего.

    За Нетаниягу чаще других голосовали репатрианты из Москвы и Санкт-Петербурга.

    За Лапида – выросшие в Израиле, а также выходцы из западных регионов бывшего СССР.

    Когда был задан вопрос “Кого бы вы хотели видеть премьер-министром Израиля, если Нетаниягу уйдет с этого поста?”, 41,5% назвали имя Либермана, 13,3% – Лапида, 5,6% – Беннета, 2,9% – Герцога, 2,8% – Саара, 2,1% – Каца.

    http://newsru.co.il/israel/06apr2017/pori1_102.html

    -
    Below:
    Political views of the youth, which people expected to shift to left after integration in Israel.

    A secular youth living in a (nominal) Western country, yet the furthest left they go is centrist candidate (Yair Lapid). It’s only a little more liberal than the sample that includes their parents (5% more like Yair Lapid, and 11% less like Lieberman).

    28% представителей “полуторного поколения” хотят видеть на посту премьер-министра Биньямина Нетаниягу (27% в среднем среди “русских израильтян”), 17% – Авигдора Либермана (28% в общем опросе), 17% – Яира Лапида (12% в общем).

    При этом, если Нетаниягу будет вынужден оставить свой пост, 30% хотели бы, чтобы пост главы правительства занял Либерман (41,5% в общем), 19% – Лапид (13% в общем), 9% – Нафтали Беннет (6% в общем).

    http://newsru.co.il/israel/03may2017/polutornoe_101.html

  16. AaronB says:
    @Carlo

    Right, most social conservatives just want us to go back a few decades. How is that going to compete with the Lefts grand vision of social perfection, utopia on Earth? There’s no chance

    Even Karlins Transhunanism has a much better chance of offering a genuine alternative to the Left. Or Daniel Chieh’s race to the stars.

    The Middle Ages was at least based on working to achieve a Heavenly utopia. Once that wasn’t believed in anymore, the natural default position is to work towards an earthly utopia. That’s why the Left will keep on winning and winning and winning. It’s literally the only game in town.

    Nationalism isn’t a utopia. It may be a practical necessity in a violent world. And I support it. But it isn’t a grand quest toward human perfection such as traditional religion offered or the Left offers today.

    Also, nationalism was never divorced from the quest for utopia. Each nation saw itself as uniquely capable of realizing utopia. It had some kind of world mission, or it was a unique center of values. Even Ethiopia as discussed over on Karlins open thread saw itself as not just a country but a civilization. A center of unique values.

    The Right today advocates nationalism out of practical reasons, making the same mistake it always has. White nationalism is necessary because other groups practice identity politics. This is true, but since it isn’t tied to the quest for human perfection, is it enough? Vox Day loves to go on about how white nationalism is inevitable because it is practically necessary. He’s right, but he doesn’t realize how he’s failing to develop a really strong alternative to the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    Merely practical nationalism is weak, because it’s always also practical to come to an accommodate with the enemy or even surrender to him entirely in order to survive. Even becoming Muslim may be considered highly practical by many Europeans – and I am sure will be, when the time comes.

    There is some attempt on the Right to make European culture the center of unique values like science – but the emphasis is always on white communities being comfortable and well ordered places to live. “Whitopia” is unique among utopias for meaning primarily order and comfort. Which are good things, but can’t compete with the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    And Tradition has come to mean placing limits and restrictions on human nature since it is weak, in order to create order. This is an insipid vision. In fact, Tradition is about a grand quest for spiritual perfection, and the rules and restrictions support that goal. But in a secular world, even the Right can’t admit that.

    Mankind must constantly be progressing towards a utopia of some kind. At least most people. That much is clear. And any political movement not based around that will render itself irrelevant.

  17. BlackFlag says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    You would think the West would be aware of failures in Rhodesia, South Africa, Detroit, Baltimore, and Venezuela but it matters not.

  18. BlackFlag says:
    @Spisarevski

    Europeans are simply too inhibited. It’s probably a good trait for individuals but leads to disastrous results for the group.

    One solution if to medicate this. Imagine if all the right were completely unhibited for a week. It could lead to the critical mass of dissent/rebellion to turn the tired as this is a positive feedback dynamic. Or are there just not enough numbers?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  19. Hokie says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Visiting Ukraine recently, it was deeply depressing to see how many Africans have settled in Kiev. Even smaller cities like Poltava had a fair number of Africans. Speaking to a few, pretty much all of them originally arrived as students.

    Since Ukraine’s population has been shrinking, the universities have been recruiting foreigners to fill spots. Africans, particularly Igbo from Nigeria, are the largest group, also southern Indians are pretty common too. Kiev Polytechnic Institute’s students are probably only about 80% white.

    The same worship of African dancing and music that pollutes America is being introduced there too. At KPI, there was an obese African-American woman teaching a few dozen white students a dance to a rap song that is popular in America.

    Most distressing, there is giant mural of Bob Marley and some other African figures from the 1960s USA counterculture two doors down from the Cossack House (a CasaPound type building a few hundred feet from Maidan). When we were visiting the Ukrainian nationalists there, they didn’t seemed to concerned, and cared a lot more about Donetsk and Crimea than packs of Africans roaming around Maidan. The African quarter in the Solomonskaya district also didn’t draw any concern from them, even though the nationalist rally was about half a kilometer away.

    The Polish nationalists there seemed pretty pessimistic too. They said that the courts and schools were polluted with leftist ideology just like America in the 1950s, and figured that their successors in 20-30 years would destroy their country, just like our leaders did in America.

    Hopefully you are right, but the trends don’t seem promising

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @AP
  20. @AaronB

    All liberals and immigrants need to be killed. I mean that 100% literally. Once they are all dead we can worry about what comes next. Talking about what kind of society we want while even a single liberal or immigrant draws breath is premature.

    • Agree: Thorfinnsson
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Erik Sieven
  21. @Dmitry

    I was in Israel a few years ago. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem as well as the occupied territories. I was going in thinking that Tel Aviv was going to the most impressive city. That delusion got crushed already at the airport. For a country supposedly close to France in nominal GDP per capita, I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better. The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.

    Jerusalem, contrary to my expectations, was actually much nice. It was far cleaner, for one, which I didn’t understand. All the Israelis in Tel Aviv insisted that only religious crazies and brutes lived there. Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly). Going into the ultra-Orthodox neighbourhoods was interesting. I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing “immodestly” and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt. I didn’t get stared at, nor did anyone try to correct me in any way.

    The pushiness and the filthy squalor of Tel Aviv was replaced by a polite orderliness. You could see the poverty in these Haredi neighbourhoods, but you could also see the community spirit. There were no drunks, no bums. The kids (and there were huge amounts of them) were all playing in the streets. I was surprised by the high number of women which worked in corner shops and the like. Apparently, I later found out, Haredi women work in greater numbers than men since the men focus a great deal on learning the Torah. Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive. Of course, once they shed their religious upbrining and get into communism and similar things, our judgement must change.

    The visit to the territories were similarly enlightening. To say that Palestinians live in a cage, is to glorify cages. I visited Hebron. The settlers had scrawled pushed them into narrow alleys down in the valley, which allowed them to stone them(!) from above whenever they felt like it and they often did. We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out. I doubt she got far. We also saw the wall, and how Israel had systematically built up a network of watch towers dissecting the landscape in order to cut off Palestinian villages from each other. It was a very clever system, but at the same time a very evil one. It wasn’t hard to see how it was next to impossible to do a real rebellion even if you were clever. A substantial part of the entire state apparatus was dedicated to this objective and the only real way to achieve some form of pressure is to activate the outside world, but as we’ve seen with Trump, the Israelis basically control the US foreign policy in MENA, especially with regards to this conflict.

    Finally, speaking of Israeli architecture, here’s another “masterpiece”:

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan, which is not even that impoverished. Notice the buildings in the background. Israel might have nice weather, but the many towns look like something ripped out of the Balkans in large sections. No wonder they prize their Bauhaus architectural legacy (which wasn’t nearly as common as I thought it would). Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I’d take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day. Give it 15 years, and you’ll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian. World Jewry will add sufficient pressure to make sure there are no rejections and our ‘based’ governments will fold.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women. I certainly didn’t try to LARP as a Jew and never pretended to be one either when asked.

    When I was at the airport, I was waved through with almost no questions asked. Tel Aviv airport is otherwise famous for racial profiling non-white citizens of Western countries (the assumption is that they are pro-Palestinian by default) by asking a ton of questions. Sometimes people get shoved into siderooms and interrogated for hours on the flimsiest of suspicions. Israelis also had a bad sense of time management and when I asked about it, they were blunt about their “Mediterranean” mentality. They apparently thought I was German so they would often say “this isn’t Germany” with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another. For a brief moment, I probably understood what it meant to be a disapora Jew. Maybe it’s time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)

  22. AaronB says:
    @Greasy William

    Greasy my dear fellow, you do not mean that 100% literally. Because you are not insane.

    Lots of liberals are that way because they have a strong idealistic streak and no one told them about spiritual perfection. All religions are corrupted and have become just about a set of restrictions whose purpose isn’t clear or worse, are explained as about limiting human freedom because we’re weak. There’s nothing to satisfy an idealistic streak in that. And the only other option is the Right, which is about lower level concerns like order and safety – which are important, but aren’t enough. Look at you, Greasy – you’re willing to fight Israel’s wars out of some sense of mission. Clearly order and safety aren’t what you’re primarily after.

    Equality is an ideal on the spiritual level but on earth inequality is real. But in a secular world, people don’t understand there are two levels of reality with different rules. Secularism only accepts one world – so the proper outlet for idealism is denied and forced into grotesque channels.

    Anatoly laments the low human capital of the Right – that’s because high quality people are naturally idealistic. Anatoly himself is idealistic – he wants to transcend the human condition.

    If you killed all liberals, you’d kill most of the worlds high quality people. That’s a painful fact we have to face. The way to fight liberalism is provide an alternative idealism. But the Left has been the only idealism in town for quite some time – which is why they keep on winning.

    Religion has to be sold as about the glorious quest for human perfection – not a set of restrictions. Tradition has to be about more than a set of rules but the quest for perfection.

    But as long as the world is secular, the Left is the only game in town. That’s another painful fact to face.

    • Replies: @gate666
    , @Pericles
  23. I have often commented upon the fact that AK seems to have a curious obsession with gay marriage, and transsexuals, as The Ultimate Arbiter of Truth when it comes to how based a country supposedly is. I always counter with this map:

    As a Russian, it is easy to see why you would boost gay marriage as The Defining Issue. But if you care about the historical continuity of your people, it seems like the Czechs do better than most of us, and they seem to be pretty relaxed about it. You may hate gays for whatever reason, but I’d be careful in obsessing over the issue the way AK seems to do as some kind of great canary in the coalmine.

    I largely agree with the ‘Frozen in time’ hyp0thesis. I do not buy into the theory of some, including far too many insular Polish nationalists, that EE will escape unharmed from the damage of the West.

    One area where I disagree is why the right fails. To my mind, a lot of the right are basically just middle-class conformists. There are two reasons why the left won, in my view:

    A) the left cares about politics to a much greater extent in a proactive way whereas the right often just reacts to what the left does, i.e. a reactive stance. This means that even when the right is weak, the left keeps pushing on. The right often has a static “leave me alone” mentality which is going to lead into passivity and comfort whenever there isn’t a strong left to react against. This creates a strong natural barrier to continuous growth.

    B) The left is not afraid at challenging social norms and living with the consequences. Whereas much of even the supposedly “radical” right is absolutely obsessed with normies. But this is illogical. In the 1940s, huge majorities of US whites were against miscegenation. If a leftist followed the advice of today’s “radical” right, they would be trying to appeal to normies all the time. But the left went on the furthest-far end and pushed relentlessly. The right always says “well that will cause backlash/blowback” and it does, but by the time it does, the position the left has achieved has been advanced already, so their losses will still put them ahead from where they started. Next time, they can go further.

    Much of the right is obsessed with acceptability, respectability and it is highly conformist. This is natural, in a sense, since many on the right would score high on authoritarianism. There is often a great deal of stress in rightist circles on dressing “right” which often just means “be petty bourgeois” in practice. The optics cuck debate post-Charlottesville is a good example. The “white trashionalists” slur is another. Even if TWP and similar groups had problems, they nevertheless had a revolutionary perspective. If you thought they had issues, then the solution would be to offer an alternative, but one which is still radical. Instead, what many people did was just promote Trumpism like Ricky Vaughn and similar dolts. This quest for respectability is also something I sense in AK’s writing, the sense that being assocated with the right is “embarrassing”. Fine, but then you’d live your whole life on the left’s premises.

    Change ultimately requires some form of sacrifice, and far too many on the right are frankly too cowardly and too conformist to do that. At this point, the charge you get hurled back to you is some moronic shitpost about “READ SIEGE” but that is a nonsense argument. The choice we have before us is not between the current approach, which is reactionary, tame, conformist and some LARPing Waco-style ‘insurgency’ which will lead nowhere. This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group. This past May 1st, they had not one, but two demonstrations which is not a small feat for a small country like Sweden when you can muster hundreds of peoples at two different locations at the same time. Nordfront, their online publication is huge.

    I am not worried about logistics or even the timeline. There’s still plenty of time for even Sweden or a Germany. I am more worried about the inability of many on the right to stop obsessing over what is “embarrassing”. If you’re more concerned about your social status, you’ll never achieve anything. I think the social status mongering is really a reflection of people’s delusions that “reform from within” can happen, but in my view, it can’t. Power does not cede gracefully, it has to be ripped from their hands and they will see us coming from a mile away. This is also why the “we will take over the GOP” nonsense was always doomed for failure, something Ricky Vaugn and the other morons pushed. It was ironic, to me, that despite Vaugh shilling so much for the GOP, when he got doxxed, no single mainstream GOP personality came out to support him. I doubt many even had heard of him. The only people who would have stood up for him, were the ones he had demonised so they had no incentive. Vaughn was upper-middle class but had no class loyalty and often spoken negatively about lower-class whites. I was disappointed, but not exactly surprised, when I saw that AK praised him, given that AK also reads NRx blogs, which in turn is filled with these middle-class conformists.

    I made a long comment before about why I think that inter-class loyalty goes a long way to explain Germanic success. I noted that in Sweden, even upper-middle class kids like Chris Dulny would openly support NMR, whereas in the US his equivalents (like Vaughn) would demonise such groups and obsess over mainstream acceptance. That’s why Sweden has a thriving scene and the US does not.

    A lot of commentary, especially from the neoreactionaries, are just privileged whining by socially comfortable people. Even their phrases (“the Cathedral”) gives it away. I would not take much stock in what they have to say, for they have no organisation on the ground. No skin in the game, as Taleb would rightly and acidly point out. That is also a lesson why the AR fell apart. An online movement, especially one so obsessed with appearances, will lead to nowhere.

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    , @DFH
    , @fnn
    , @utu
  24. @Polish Perspective

    Give it 15 years, and you’ll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian.

    This is already happening and has been going on for quite some time. I can assure you that every non religious Israeli Jew with a Polish grandparent already has a Polish passport. Do you feel like contemporary Poland doesn’t have enough Jews? How does another 2 – 3 million sound? And yes, you are right, you will in fact be taking them in. They will not be permitted to remain in the Land of Israel, that’s for damn sure.

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan

    I’ve got very little good to say about secular Israel but that building is fucking awesome. I don’t know what your problem with it is. Good for that architect for being willing to do something different.

    We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out

    The extinction of American Jewry can’t come soon enough.

    Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive.

    You can’t even do antisemitism right. You are supposed to be more hostile to Torah True Jews.

    Yes Haredi culture is beautiful. It is also the future. I myself am not very observant but I’m always trying to be a little more so. Judaism is hard to do if you aren’t part of a religious community. In 100 years all Jews will be Haredim and the filth you had the misfortune of dealing with in Tel Aviv will exist only in history books. Rejoice!

    I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing “immodestly” and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt.

    Uhm… you’re a male. Unless you were dressed as an IDF soldier of course nobody was gonna bother you. This was Meah Shearim?

    I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another.

    Probably because the Ethiopians aren’t actually Jewish. As I’m sure you know.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy.

    Israel is a very “colorist” society, sort of like with American blacks or with Indians. Having light skin in Israel is a huge prestige marker. But there isn’t any meaningful Mizrahi/Ashkenazi divide anymore. The intermarriage is nearly 50% and among secular it is almost certainly well over 50%. The only meaningful divide in Israel is between the religious and the secular. Ethnicity doesn’t matter. Except for the Ethiopian fake Jews.

    Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I’d take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day

    Biblical Israel was undoubtedly every bit as much of a dump, and yet it produced the Bible. Good things come from filthy, dilapidated packages.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Dmitry
  25. AaronB says:
    @Greasy William

    Good things come from filthy, dilapidated packages

    Yup.

    India!

  26. Dmitry says:
    @Polish Perspective

    , I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better.

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    The trains and their stations are overall really nice.

    The problem is the bus station – which is the opposite (like you have entered Africa). I don’t like the train station next to that bus station, but even it is perfectly modern as in Europe.

    The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.

    It depends on the streets – the expensive ones would impress. The overall building quality is very low in most of the city. Although skyscrapers are building everywhere, like in a ‘boom town’.

    Atmosphere though in the expensive parts of the city is something else.

    Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly).

    The buses are the same in the two cities. (Egged is a bus company).

    The difference is that Jerusalem has built the light rail which you would have used, if you had visited.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped.

    They stop everyone (unless it’s out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I’m a light Northern European appeared man – makes no difference.

    You invented a kind of dumb story.

    For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way.

    Lol you got “treated better than” the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?

    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven’t done?

    It’s pretty weird and obviously cobbled together from some travel reviews you read, but with lots of imagination added.

    You and Okechukwu need to get a room with his hired “Russian security ”

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/sweden-no/#comment-2344966

  27. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    It’s kind of funny that none of you guys have been in Israel – Greasy and PolishPerspective.

    You’ve all told me stuff which is like the opposite of the most basics of the country (e.g. dilapidated train stations). Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

    One thing it shows is that the ideas of countries are in some way more interesting to people than first-hand experiencein the co untries.

    It’s reminds me of reading on here Saker saying about how you can find Nazi literature in every bookshop in Moscow, and at the same time that nobody cares about money in my country (!).

    For the time it requires to imagine that, you could have got half way to country- and maybe soon come back, and tell us some boring stuff that corresponds with the place, even if we all know it already. But it’s more funny to imagine some additional crazy layer that we don’t know about because, happily or sadly, does not transpire except in your head.

  28. @Dmitry

    what did I say that was wrong? The only thing you could possibly dispute was that Israel is colorist, which everybody knows is true. So is India and so are the Arab countries. It’s really not a big deal.

  29. @Dmitry

    I just asked a Russian guy who I know for a fact spent a couple of months in Israel to adjudicate on all three of you.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Dmitry
  30. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    Bat Yam slums – the second most densely populated place in Israel

    Photos are not very sympathetic. What’s the point of immigration to Israel if immigrants live in such slums?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  31. @Anatoly Karlin

    I personally do have some question marks after reading some comments.

  32. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

    I’ve lived in Israel when younger and visited multiple times. Last time in 2009 around. Don’t remember exactly.

    Polish Perspective is not that far off. The country does not seem modern. Thailand seems way more modern.

    I’ve never been to the airport train station, but I was at some Tel Aviv station. It seemed fine, but not ultra modern.

    Jerusalem, especially the nachlaot area, is pretty run down and third world. The Jewish section of the old city is sterile and lifeless and clean. Oh, I was stopped multiple times by an Israeli border guard at the old city gates, and I look very northern European. Also by security in malls in Tel Aviv, who asked me in Hebrew if I had a gun.

    I was also stopped by security getting off the plane, but I had drank half a bottle of vodka on the plane and was not in the best shape. They let me go after a few seconds of questioning.

    Tel Aviv is pretty run down but not terrible. But it lacks sparkle, sophistication, and class – on one trip, I arrived from Istanbul, which is so much more polished and stylish.

    On the whole, the country is pleasingly chaotic and third worldish. It will make you happy to know that I like Israel Dmitry – I think its Jews are much healthier and more human than American Jews, who have lost their minds. Although politically Israelis are insane. I like the freewheeling atmosphere – it reminds me of Asia a bit. I like the grime and dirt. That’s character.

    Still, there is something insular and strange about the place, and I get depressed if I stay for too long. Although I would like to go visit again.

    Haven’t been 10 years.

    Why don’t you just live there Dmitry? You’re obviously a Zionist!

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  33. Árpád Virág is a Hungarian name. Both names could be first names, Árpád is male (less likely to be a family name I think) and Virág female (more likely to be a family name). So probably it’s a guy with Árpád being his first name.

  34. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Lol I’ve been to Israel many times.

    He copied a few true stuff about the shabbiness of buildings and dirtiness of Tel Aviv (it’s like 1950s Tokyo, or maybe 1890s New York, or maybe Mumbai today – it’s a chaotic boom town). But in Jerusalem it’s also not any great improvement and also has a lot of shabby areas.

    The story is a wholly imaginary one though.

    For example, he talks about the shabbiness of train stations at the airport and at Tel Aviv.

    It’s the opposite. The trains are quite modern and posh, and even the stations are better than in many Western countries.

    So the average tourist on the first visit, will at first feel like they are in Japan, and that Israel is ‘really modern’ – until they leave the station, when they will suddenly be shocked by the contrast as they enter a very very shabby world (after being misled by the nice trains and their stations).

    To enjoy a train ride:

  35. @AaronB

    Bowden laid out a pretty clear vision of the right.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  36. AaronB says:
    @Lemurmaniac

    What did he say?

    • Replies: @Lemurmaniac
  37. @Dmitry

    I’ve not been to Israel, but it strikes me as a very ugly country from what I’ve seen in news reports, Israeli tv shows, and google. Ugly mosques (horrid, bulbous things), ugly temples, ugly people with angular faces and hooked noses, ugly desert, ugly cube shaped houses, ugly uniforms, ugly skull caps…

  38. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    The immigrants experience a decline in living standards. In the early 1990s, many were almost homeless (living inside tents) for the first years, as there was not enough housing to accommodate them (tens of thousands arriving each month).

    Then many were settled in the worst slums (often not allowed to choose due to housing crisis).

    In terms of employment, the joke is about famous scientists are working as a janitor or toilet cleaners.

    Today they have the same salary as the average in Israel, but they are still negatively damaged economically, because of lack of inheritance from parents.

    -

    My friend and his wife lives in Bat Yam slums (he lived in Israel continuously for six years now) – he is newly qualified as a doctor.

    I stayed in his apartment in February .

    Where he lives is like ‘total slum’. But just next to his house they start to build a lot of skyscrapers.

    There is something a bit surreal, that if you own property in this slum, you have a chance to become a millionaire.

    You become a millionaire, if company decides to demolish the slum building where your apartment is, and construct a skyscraper – in exchange they give you a free apartment often worth a million dollars.

    In Israeli law, the company that builds the skyscrapers has to give a free apartment to the people in the building it demolished.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  39. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Where he lives is like ‘total slum’. But just next to his house they start to build a lot of skyscrapers.

    There is something a bit surreal, that if you own property in this slum, you have a chance to become a millionaire.

    You become a millionaire, if company decides to demolish the slum building where your apartment is, and construct a skyscraper – in exchange they give you a free apartment often worth a million dollars.

    At 2:14 in the video, the way they’re putting suddenly them up next to – and starting to go on top of the old slum buildings .

  40. @Dmitry

    Oh, I certainly trust you have been to Israel, esp. considering you go on about it do much. :)

    I’m not sure why there’s a good reason to believe Polish Perspective is lying. We all come with our preconceptions, and can have biased impressions (especially if we don’t even things out by spending a long time there). For instance, people have been raving to me about how good and modern Sheremetyevo has become, but I haven’t been impressed right now (took me 2-3x longer to clear the line than at Sheremetyvo). I continue to rate Domodedovo considerably higher, but that goes against basically all my friends’ impressions.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  41. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Sure I was like ‘oh an interesting story’ – as I start to read. And the train station thing (which is the inverse), makes me think this imaginary story.

    And then it goes into pure fiction, about never being checked by security because he is a European (you’ll get checked multiple times a day everywhere you go, don’t worry I’m European, still getting checked many times a day).

    Also about being treated better than Mizrahi Jews (that’s the majority of the Israelis and vast majority of people serving you, not going to happen), or having a special rapport with “visibly ignored Ethiopian Jews” as fellow outsiders (which part of the story was invented by a left-wing guy anyway that it must have been copied from, not by this user).

    Ethiopian Jews do usually only speak Hebrew. You don’t see them ‘often ignored in public in a very visible way’. And I doubt they will feel any special rapport with him as a EU tourist – it’s a projection of a left-wing European imagination. Creative writing from a left-wing perspective, which was not invented by this user who said he was right-wing.

    They apparently thought I was German so they would often say “this isn’t Germany” with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another.

    For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women.

  42. @Dmitry

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    I was there in 2015, and from what I understand you were there much more recently, so either they did a much-needed renovation in the meantime or your standards are lower than mine.

    It depends on the streets – the expensive ones would impress.

    We lived in the Yafo neighbourhood, which is supposedly a “up-and-coming” hipster neighbourhood(it was also ground zero for expulsion of Palestininans in 1948, though you won’t hear many talk loudly about that).

    I certainly did see many expensive and hip restaurants, but the sqaulor was still there, nestled around it. I was also moving towards the center of a city a lot, primarily Rothschild Avenue (I believe it is called), which is their main artery and I was similarly unimpressed. I will say that TA has great amounts of restaurants.

    They stop everyone (unless it’s out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I’m a light Northern European appeared man – makes no difference.

    I was waved through several times. Sorry if you got stopped. The places where security was tightest was Northern Tel Aviv, which is apparently the richest parts. I went into several supermarkets with security and was not taken aside, but some locals were.

    Lol you got “treated better than” the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?

    To the extent I talked, I used English, so it would be fair they assumed I was an American given that I am pretty fluent. The only people who guessed I was German was when I revealed I was from Europe, but that wasn’t in security-related situations but average Israelis. There are lots of American Jews in Tel Aviv, and it would be entirely possible some of them stereotyped me as such when interacting formally in English. Would they treat a (stereotypically rich) American Jew better than a poor Mizrahi local?

    It wasn’t just security-related, though, even in public transportation and similar settings I was notably treated better than Ethiopians and some Mizrahis.

    As it happens, Russian-origin Jews have had some racist discrimination against them in Israel. There’s even a slur arsim which is used against Russians, even though it started as a slur against those with a Middle Eastern background(regardless of religion) from the Ashkenazi native-born class.

    Max Blumenthal detailed this in his magisterial book. There is an interesting chapter on Russian Jews in Israel and the subtle forms of discrimination they have. Though you are too in love with Israel to absorb that info.

    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven’t done?

    obviously cobbled together

    You invented a kind of dumb story.

    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv. You have set yourself upon thinking that it is a great city, and your blind love of Israel is obvious. You’re free to believe or not, but if you honestly think I would take great care to impress you, I think you’re delusional about your relative importance to me, no offence.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Dmitry
  43. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    On the whole, the country is pleasingly chaotic and third worldish. It will make you happy to know that I like Israel Dmitry – I think its Jews are much healthier and more human than American Jews, who have lost their minds. Although politically Israelis are insane. I like the freewheeling atmosphere – it reminds me of Asia a bit. I like the grime and dirt. That’s character.

    It depends if you come from the West or the East.

    Some are more chaotic and badly organized cities even than Russia, though a little similar in some ways. (Although still a lot better than Los Angeles, for example.). But chaos in Israel is a bit related to goldrush or economic boom atmosphere.

    In many ways though, it’s as safe as Japan. You can leave your bag in a cafe, and no-one will be scared anyone to steal it (everyone leaves their possession unguarded on the beach). I never saw any physical fighting. I had a person run after me when my bag was open, to tell me it was open. Etc.

    In places like Barcelona, you don’t leave your bag alone for one second. Overall a lot safer and less crazy than walking around Californian cities (which I was doing last summer)

    I find the (daytime) atmosphere of Israel definitely too intense and stressed to want to live there, but it the country/language is one my main hobbies.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @AaronB
  44. @Polish Perspective

    Yes, inter-class loyalty does not exist at all in the UK. The last time it existed was in the WW2 era. The upper classes seem to regard the white unskilled underclass as verging on sub-human and are in a deep rage that Brexit means they will not be able to replace them with Europeans. Good post on Israel.

  45. Mitleser says:
    @Hokie

    Ukrainians can only avert it if they go full Nork.

  46. DFH says:
    @Polish Perspective

    B) The left is not afraid at challenging social norms and living with the consequences. Whereas much of even the supposedly “radical” right is absolutely obsessed with normies. But this is illogical. In the 1940s, huge majorities of US whites were against miscegenation. If a leftist followed the advice of today’s “radical” right, they would be trying to appeal to normies all the time. But the left went on the furthest-far end and pushed relentlessly. The right always says “well that will cause backlash/blowback” and it does, but by the time it does, the position the left has achieved has been advanced already, so their losses will still put them ahead from where they started. Next time, they can go further.

    But left-wing movements like changing the immigration policy, decriminalising homosexual acts and ‘civil-rights’ denied that more extreme consequences would come about. I don’t see any evidence that their more extreme members helped rather than hindered them, the latter was certainly the belief of the leaders of those movements at the time.

    The optics cuck debate post-Charlottesville is a good example. The “white trashionalists” slur is another. Even if TWP and similar groups had problems, they nevertheless had a revolutionary perspective. If you thought they had issues, then the solution would be to offer an alternative, but one which is still radical. Instead, what many people did was just promote Trumpism like Ricky Vaughn and similar dolts. This quest for respectability is also something I sense in AK’s writing, the sense that being assocated with the right is “embarrassing”. Fine, but then you’d live your whole life on the left’s premises.

    The TWP was a failure in any terms, with virtually no support. It was tiny and insignificant even by the standards of far-right movements. Ditto for anti-British dress up group NA.

  47. gate666 says:
    @Spisarevski

    donald trump supported gay marriage .

  48. gate666 says:
    @AaronB

    religiosity is inversely proportional to iq.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  49. fnn says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Brings to mind a passage from Shirer’s famous book:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2010/06/henry-williamson/

    The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along the road between Aachen and Brussels one saw the contrasts between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth-tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars. (Shirer, p. 256)

    • Replies: @utu
  50. @Spisarevski

    I could have easily imagined something like this to happen in countries like Croatia. But Bulgaria? That’s sad.

  51. @Greasy William

    If the ever do a documentary about unz.com in the MSM I could imagine this comment will be chosen an cited out of the tens of thousands of comments already posted.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • LOL: German_reader
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  52. @gate666

    religiosity is inversely proportional to iq.

    Of course it is, because conformism is positively correlated with high IQ.

  53. @BlackFlag

    While superficially attractive, you can’t get order out of disorder – which I think is a central takeaway from Mr. Karlin’s original blog. In that sense, you’re probably better off establishing weird tiny cults rather than attempting to create the world’s largest footballer riot.

  54. neutral says:

    Too much blackpilling from Karlin.

  55. @Dmitry

    Overall a lot safer and less crazy than walking around Californian cities (which I was doing last summer)

    Why? I thought your precious brown, cuddly Latrinos were all paragons of virtue?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  56. Wency says:
    @AaronB

    I think all of this is basically true — the idea of returning to your grandparents’ values because they were superior just never seems to be persuasive. This is one reason why Cthulhu swims as he does.

    The usual mechanism for reversing leftism is the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings (with terror and slaughter). And it’s pretty reliable. At present, the mechanism for this would seem to be the conquest of the West by culturally and genetically more conservative Middle Eastern and African peoples.

    Unfortunately, our goal is to conserve the good things about our society and not to conserve conservatism itself. I understand the intent of neoreaction to be reversing the tide while skipping the terror and slaughter, and safeguarding against it in the future. But you’re right that no one has really articulated a vision.

    My personal opinion, coming from the U.S. perspective, is that the only real hope is the return of Christianity in a more resilient form, driven by the differential fertility of Christians, and particularly of certain Christian sub-groups. The Amish and Mennonites being extreme examples, but also things like the Quiverfull movement. But there’s even a non-denom church down the road from me that has a pro-natal theology, including a pastor with 13 kids and couples averaging 4-5 kids once their families are “complete”.

    While there are a lot of initial defections, over time these groups are able to combine a pro-natal subculture with people who are genetically disposed to remaining within the group and perhaps to natalism itself.

    The Left has many advantages, but one key disadvantage it suffers from is anti-natalism, and indeed its ideology becomes more anti-natal by the year. While declining civilizations have always had anti-natal tendencies, no civilization has ever been nearly so anti-natal as ours. This allows groups with a radical pro-natal vision to have a larger impact than has ever before been possible. And outside Christianity, there’s not really an intellectual avenue for radical pro-natalism in the West.

    Unfortunately, none of this is too relevant to our lifetimes, but I suspect the white population of the 22nd century will be shaped primarily by the phenomena I describe here, barring some massive technology-driven realignment.

    Gnon, at present, is selecting aggressively for natalism, natalism, and more natalism. Among groups, among people, and among ideas.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @songbird
  57. AaronB says:
    @Wency

    Right.

    The problem is that the Right never offered a vision of progress. Today we see traditional societies as static, but traditional societies saw themselves as based on a vision of progress just as much as the Left. They were radically progressive, it was just spiritual.

    All societies seem based on some notion of progress. When the Right began to sell stasis, it was doomed. It just continued losing and losing.

    The Lefts version of progress is inherently destructive, so in the long run it will lose. But not to a vision of stasis. Humanity will destroy itself before it rests content with a vision of stasis.

    You’re right that people on the left are not reproducing and that will likely doom it – it’s also s sign their version of progress is false.

    I agree that a return to religion in the West is the only real alternative to the Left. Because the Left offers an increasingly optimized version of secular progress. Its the only game in town if you reject religion. Only religion offers a vision of progress that might compete with the Left.

    Will it be Christianity? Maybe. But look at Karlins transhumanism – that’s not secular, its religious. Or Chieh’s space colonization.

    There are many ways a religious version of progress might return. Ultimately I think you’re right that only traditional Christianity or traditional religion will win out, because I think their version of spiritual progress is real, whereas transhumanism is a misunderstanding of traditional religion.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Pericles
  58. @AaronB

    What’s your opinion of Nazism btw? Whatever else may be said about it, it did offer a very powerful utopian idea (the Volksgemeinschaft in which all prior conflicts of class, political persusasion etc. are transcended in a harmonious racial community based on solidarity and meritocracy) and inspired its believers to immense sacrifices.
    So would some sort of revived Nazism, maybe with Odinism or some sort of ancestor cult as its spiritual element, be to your liking? Since you’ve told us that even the human sacrifices of the Aztecs are preferable to modern secularism, could you really object on any ethical grounds?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @AaronB
  59. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    You are right about the safety. I never felt the least bit unsafe there, although I was cheated a few times, which I don’t think would happen in Japan. It doesn’t quite have the social capital of Japan, and it has both more and less social capital than white Europe.

    For instance, I was always safe in Israel, but I was attacked by a group of white Poles leaving a bar in Krakow. They thought I was English and wanted to beat up English people. Coming from New York where all whites are upper class, I remember thinking how odd it was that nice white people were violently attacking me! But Poles in general were more refined and polite than Israelis.

    And while Israelis in Israel can be quite nice and polite and incredibly helpful and the reputation of rude Israelis is overblown, you are always in danger of experiencing instances of shocking and extraordinary rudeness which is hardly true in Europe or anywhere else I’ve been. And Israelis overseas can be monsters.

    but it the country/language is one my main hobbies.

    I think it is much more than that for you :) Its one of your loves.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  60. @German_reader

    To be really honest, it wouldn’t have been so successful if it didn’t offer a compelling vision. A half century after its total defeat, you wouldn’t have a continuing core of genuine Neo-Nazis and various imitators of at least its style and form if it wasn’t built over something that speaks to the human nature.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  61. Pericles says:
    @AaronB

    We’ll give you UTOPIA, don’t worry.

    The catch: It’s NEGRO UTOPIA. Enjoy!

  62. Pericles says:
    @AaronB

    If you killed all liberals, you’d kill most of the worlds high quality people.

    Lol, now you’re just high. Just a few years after flittering off to find your true idealistic self at Berkeley, you will be hunched over your adopted gay son, giving him the gift of the bug with your feminine penis. Because you are the highest quality of people.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  63. songbird says:
    @Wency

    At present, the mechanism for this would seem to be the conquest of the West by culturally and genetically more conservative Middle Eastern and African peoples.

    Africans are not conservative. If they were a country like Lesotho wouldn’t have an 25% HIV infection rate. They aren’t 1/4 homosexuals, so that they are so infected should be considered something to really marvel at. Basically, it requires an amazing level of whoring – really amazingly high, not normal stuff.

    • Replies: @Wency
  64. Pericles says:
    @AaronB

    You’re right that people on the left are not reproducing and that will likely doom it – it’s also s sign their version of progress is false.

    Brown leftists reproduce, and there you have the future of leftism.

    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
  65. Pericles says:

    Going on about the ‘Swine Right’ seems to me a sign of moral relativism, another symptom of leftism as it happens. When there are no universal moral values, at least I can fulminate about someone being a hypocrite. And that someone happens to be not ‘Swine Left’ or ‘Swine Islam’ but of course … the ‘Right’.

  66. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    I don’t know if he is making it up. Two things I would say:

    It is known that Israelis racially profile. They do it because they are sensible, and it works. I think it speaks well of them than otherwise, although you do have to be careful, as a lot of the terrorists against the French in North African picked more European-looking women to plant their bombs.

    I live near Boston. I think it is like the #8 financial center in the world. Home to a lot of important research. Certainly, an important American city. And there are times that I’ve been in the subway, and if you had the light, you could grow potatoes down there, on the trains – they are that dirty. I never saw this in another country but perhaps I never rode at the right time. More than 95% percent of the subway does not impress, still it is an important city.

  67. @Niccolo Salo

    I just read the full entry by Arpad Virag.

    It is complete bullshit.

    I have to ask you Karlin: what makes you, generally a smart guy, so naive as to buy such bullshit without applying any critical thinking?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @peterAUS
  68. Anonymous[104] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Odd response from you, you are obviously getting emotional. Polish commentator is a top 10 commentator and should have the credibility to not be accused of fabrication without better evidence. You as another top 10 commentator should maintain your standard of quality in comments.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  69. @Niccolo Salo

    Perhaps you should invite him to Salo for a meet in the Shoutbox. It could be fun.

    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
  70. AP says:
    @Hokie

    Visiting Ukraine recently, it was deeply depressing to see how many Africans have settled in Kiev. Even smaller cities like Poltava had a fair number of Africans. Speaking to a few, pretty much all of them originally arrived as students.

    I was there in 2017, and didn’t notice any significant number. They were very rare, as in Moscow (the ones I saw in Moscow this April were mostly given jobs yelling out advertisements on the street, such as to come to a restaurant, in heavily-accented Russian). I wasn’t looking out for them, of course.

    Kiev has about 3 million people (unofficially perhaps 4 million). Percentage of Africans is miniscule.

    Look at random youtube videos of Kiev’s streets and you’ll see about zero Africans. Like here:

    One Indian, one eastern Asian, literally every other single person is white out of a few hundred in the video.

    Kiev subway:

    Whites only.

    Kiev Polytechnic Institute’s students are probably only about 80% white.

    Interesting. I know an African physician in the USA who had studied in Ukraine. Nice person, intelligent. Speaks both Russian and Ukrainian decently.

    Interview with African leader in Ukraine:

    Estimates 20,000 Africans in Ukraine. Apparently the largest chicken farm in Zaporizhia (Eastern Ukraine) is owned by a Nigerian.

    When we were visiting the Ukrainian nationalists there, they didn’t seemed to concerned, and cared a lot more about Donetsk and Crimea than packs of Africans roaming around Maidan.

    Because the latter doesn’t happen.

    • Replies: @songbird
  71. utu says:
    @fnn

    What’s funny is that even in Hollywood movies Germans manage to look good. Is it because they pick extras among Nordic looking actors who are good looking to us because they are Nordic or is it the appeal of Hugo Boss uniform?

    Very true about how Brits treated and treat their lower classes. This attitude crossed Atlantic to America where in older times loathing was acceptable with respect to poor immigrants but now it is poor withes, white trash and poor Southerners on whom there is an open season and no protective umbrella is extended over them, including a common decency. The left can be vicious. They take no prisoners.

  72. @Daniel Chieh

    There is a certain subset of hard rightists in ex-communist countries who have been socialized on 4chan and internet memes and have internalized American political, cultural and social narratives to the point that they end up applying it to their own countries when it really can’t be done.

    This manifests itself in alarmism and is really a ‘hey, we’re just like you’ special plea. Almost all of these types have never spent a significant amount of time in the Anglosphere and really don’t have anything tangible to compare their situation with.

    It’s as sad as relying on polling to learn about countries.

    These types are generally nerds with low social intelligence and usually end up actually embracing the more hilarious types of #HBD rejects.

    And for those who are nerds I will quantify it for you: Arpad says that Pride in Zagreb is ‘beyond huge’. Metro Zagreb has 1 million residents and some 5,000 people turn out for Pride every year, over which half come from outside the country as either NGO types or their homosexual partners. Toronto and its suburbs has 6 million residents and around 1.5 million turn out for Pride there year after year after year after year.

    It’s frustrating how naive people can be when all it takes is going to a country and spending time there in various locales to learn about what life is like there and then applying some critical thinking and engaging in comparisons with other places one has lived in/been to.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  73. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Very interesting. Somehow I had this image of Tel Aviv as modern good looking and well run European city, a new Pearl of Mediterranean, a better non-Muslim version of Beirut and you have just destroyed it. Also I thought that Israel was more egalitarian which implied no slums. This perhaps was more true in the early phase of the Israeli when socialist and Kibbutzim ideas were still alive. Do Jews treat other Jews better and show greater solidarity when they live among ‘hostile’ gentile majority? Does the ‘anti-semitism’ of ‘hostile’ gentile majority makes them to conform to more ‘civilized’ ways makes them better humans?

    Total Rubbish: Why Is Israel So Filthy?

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/#comment-2353632

    Israel’s heavy bureaucracy leads to corruption, think tank says

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-heavy-bureaucracy-leads-to-corruption-think-tank-says/

    Are Israelis Rude? Learning Not To Be Polite In Israel

    http://therayve.blogspot.com/2010/09/are-israelis-rude-learning-not-to-be.html

    Jewish towns, ghettos and shtetls were always known for their ‘balagan’ and ‘bardak’. Also they were known for their directness and redness. What is interesting that I heard several times from American and Israeli Jews that when forced to talk bout it on account of Israel they try to explain that this the leftover of habits they picked up from primitive Russian and Polish peasants. Also they blame the over-the-top inflexible and capricious bureaucracy that treat clients like dirt on Tsarist bureaucracy.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  74. songbird says:
    @AP

    There’s no such thing as too few African invaders. Trust me – they are the tip of the spear. I saw them set up their toehold in Dublin, Ireland in the early ’90s, and it has only grown since then, and the others too. It is really disturbing to see such a face in a country village, and that comes just a little later than the main cities.

    The wrong trend is the wrong trend.

    • Agree: German_reader
    • Replies: @AP
  75. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Tel Aviv was built in the 1950s, and then suffered a kind of Detroit like depopulation and economic crash in the 1970s. (So parts are like Detroit)

    It’s the more shabby-building city in Israel. Until about 2000, when it starts to enter an economic boom.

    So now, at the same time there are a lot of new clean buildings, and restorations.

    The new restored buildings are like:

    And the not nice parts can be

    What is interesting that I heard several times from American and Israeli Jews that when forced to talk bout it on account of Israel they try to explain that this the leftover of habits they picked up from primitive Russian and Polish peasants. Also they blame the over-the-top inflexible and capricious bureaucracy that treat clients like dirt on Tsarist bureaucracy.

    Ashdod (working class town, with a lot of Moroccan and Russians), is very clean, modern, and sterile (kind of opposite of Tel Aviv).

    The interesting thing is it is a lot poorer.

    The reason is the historical time of development. Ashdod was constructed mainly in the 1980s, when Israel was a middle income country.

    Tel Aviv constructed in the 1950s (when Israel was low-income). And then went through depopulation and economic collapse through 1960s-1990s.

    And then economic boom from the 2000s. So the current situation is a heavy contrast between the third-world and first world buildings.

  76. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    I think I’ve said somewhere that Nazism had many appealing aspects. But overall it was a grotesque hybrid of the worst aspects of Judaism, secularism, and materialism, and some occult elements thrown in.

    The socialism and brotherhood element are great and necessary. But the hatred and conquest element – bad. The mythic poetic element was necessary, though needs to be better done.

    Also it tried to be a religion but was materialistic. For instance Hitler was ready to give up on the German people because of one defeat. That’s pathetic. That’s not how you do religion. But if you’re materialistic, you can’t think in terms of eternity.

    But it should be a lesson to us how you can inspire millions to self sacrifice and heroism if you have a vision. Even a corrupted one.

    I love Norse mythology! Many beautiful and noble elements. But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go. They supplanted paganism everywhere in the world for a reason. They are higher.

    Would Norse religion be better than secular modernity? Undoubtedly.

  77. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv.

    I had this long discussion with Dimitry about the rate of plastic surgeries in Israel in comparison to the US and he fought it as if he was a Texan defending Alamo. Neither of us had definitive data to settle the issue so there was a room for interpretation form the limited data we had. I sensed that his stance was coming form this idealized Israel where shit does not stink which is more pure than the rest of the world that he wanted to believe in. Early Zionist believed and preached that all evils will be left behind in Eastern Europeans ghettos and shtetls and a New Jewish Man will be reborn in Eretz Israel and afterward they will all live happily ever after. How possibly girls would need or want to have nose jobs in a paradise like that?

    Look how shabby, out of shape and somewhat ‘racially inferior’ these IDF soldiers in Auschwitz look:

  78. AaronB says:
    @Pericles

    High quality people are idealistic. IQ tests and statistics and math and science show this beyond any doubt.

    The Right has trouble attracting high quality human capital because it lacks idealism and offers a fatalistic vision of life strictly bounded by limits. But humans yearn for the infinite.

    Many liberals are not liberals in their “essence” – the biggest mistake you can make us to think of people “essentialistically”. Are Europeans natural cucks or the world’s greatest warrior people?

    Many liberals are that way because the modern secular world does not offer them any other way to satisfy their idealism and reach after the infinite.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    , @Silva
  79. @AaronB

    But the hatred and conquest element – bad.

    Why is it bad in your world view?

    But if you’re materialistic, you can’t think in terms of eternity.

    A thousand year Reich, with all its eschatological connotations, does sound like striving for eternity to me.

    But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go.

    That love has historically been mostly directed only at the religious ingroup whereas different standards applied for dealings with heathen, heretics, unbelievers etc. Islam is pretty much like this even today.
    Many Nazis would probably have said that Nazism was fundamentally about love of the German people.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @peterAUS
  80. AP says:
    @songbird

    There’s no such thing as too few African invaders. Trust me – they are the tip of the spear. I saw them set up their toehold in Dublin,

    I didn’t notice a toehold in Ukraine nor in Russia. They were basically none there before and none more recently either. 20,000 Africans in Ukraine, with about 40 million people, is basically zero.

    Here is Kiev in November 2017:

    Do you see a toehold of any kind? I don’t think the weird dancer at 9:50 or so counts.

    • Replies: @songbird
  81. Dmitry says:
    @Polish Perspective

    I was there in 2015, and from what I understand you were there much more recently, so either they did a much-needed renovation in the meantime or your standards are lower than mine.

    It’s a made-up story, I know from a lot of different reasons.

    I don’t know/care why (I guess because you read the Blumenthal book, and some Polish travel reviews?) – but I can see it’s fake very easily, because all the opposites.

    I know you make up the trip and so do you. So what’s the use of pretending.

    We lived in the Yafo neighbourhood, which is supposedly a “up-and-coming” hipster neighbourhood(it was also ground zero for expulsion of Palestininans in 1948, though you won’t hear many talk loudly about that).

    A majority of shops, restaurants, people in the street, and people treating you in Yafo are openly Arabs.

    Large groups of Arab men sitting outside smoking, large groups of women in Muslim dress and Arabs smoking shisha outside, with a few Jewish hipster discos and bars (and luxury accomodation) mixed around the place.

    The atmosphere in the evening can be a little intimidating if you don’t like large groups of Arab guys shouting in corners.

    If you were actually in Yafo, you would that experience (and certainly not have been ‘treated better as a European’, etc, except that they might try to sell you stuff).

    I was waved through several times. Sorry if you got stopped. The places where security was tightest was Northern Tel Aviv, which is apparently the richest parts. I went into several supermarkets with security and was not taken aside, but some locals were.

    They either stop everyone, or wave through everyone. You know your story makes no sense – because you were not there, and invented the story (with some travel review as inspiration).

    I have a vast of experience of Israel. It’s the same story – if it’s a crowded time they stop everyone, especially foreigners (non-Hebrew speakers). When it’s empty, they let through.

    In Northern Tel Aviv, no special security. The security is the same because it’s by legal regulation.

    There are lots of American Jews in Tel Aviv, and it would be entirely possible some of them stereotyped me as such when interacting formally in English. Would they treat a (stereotypically rich) American Jew better than a poor Mizrahi local?

    No, the difference – as in most countries – if you speak Hebrew or not (or Arabic as you were supposedly now in Yaffo).

    It wasn’t just security-related, though, even in public transportation and similar settings I was notably treated better than Ethiopians and some Mizrahis.

    How can a person be treated better in public transport (in the train or the bus?). You get on train and that is that.

    Come on, this Max Blumenthal reading material has led to a strange imaginary story.

    As it happens, Russian-origin Jews have had some racist discrimination against them in Israel. There’s even a slur arsim

    Arsim refers to the young hooligan guys (who are playing loud music on the beach). The translation to English is like ‘punks’.

    This is an important you will use a lot, if you ever actually come to Israel.

    Max Blumenthal detailed this in his magisterial book. There is an interesting chapter on Russian Jews in Israel and the subtle forms of discrimination they have. Though you are too in love with Israel to absorb that info.

    I’m in love with Israel the same way as with any country that I know personally.

    I can spot forgeries and know what is accurate, what is maybe an unfair representation but from someone who is acquainted with subject, and what is invented.

    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv. You have set yourself upon thinking that it is a great city, and your blind love of Israel is obvious. You’re free to believe or not, but if you honestly think I would take great care to impress you, I think you’re delusional about your relative importance to me, no offence.

    I don’t know or care why you invented the story.

    I just pointed out that it was invention.

    I can see right away that AaronB has actually been there when I read his post above, and that you had not.

    That’s just a function of knowing a country yourself.

    Same as if you try to describe the street in my home city (I’ll know soon if you had been there or not).

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  82. Dmitry says:
    @Anonymous

    No – I just saw in a few lines that he had invented the whole story.

    He knows it and I know it. Not such a big deal either way (I guess he is a young guy).

  83. @Erik Sieven

    And in Unz2, it will be presented as an example of a Jewish hate hoax.

    Everything’s perfect.

    • LOL: reiner Tor
  84. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    I don’t support hatred and conquest because I believe in the underlying spiritual unity of mankind – really of all phenomena including animals. I think Ahimsa is basically correct as a principle. We are all One. All great spiritual teachers without exception have had this insight.

    However, I distinguish between the corporeal realm and the spiritual realm. Humans function best as part of groups. Without group love, humans become selfish individualists. They do not become loving universalists. So while keeping an eye on the ultimate spiritual ideal of Oneness, we must organise into groups of nations. There will be wars and conflict. But this world will never be prefect.

    A thousand year Reich is nothing. Every religion seeks eternity and infinity. And one defeat and the Germans are worthless? Hitler’s racial loyalty was weak. Because it was based on materialism.

    You are right historically love was directed at the in group. This is better than self love. In this fallen world, group love is necessary. But this is a step on the path to universal love. Of course, it often will fall into inter group hatred.

    Islam is s universal religion. And it has high ethical standards towards non Muslims at its best. However, it does show preference to Muslims while keeping the path open for everyone to become Muslim. Of course historically Islam was frequently corrupted and acted appallingly. While not ideal, and Buddhism does a better job, its on a high level.

    The point is there is no perfect solution in this sublunary world – we must choose the best option. Selfish individualism is the worst and least loving.

    Nazism was about loving Germans yes – but in the corrupted form of group love where others are hated. Plus, it had no options for others to join the master race, unlike Islam, and had zero ethical standards for treating out group members. Much lower than Islam.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Bliss
  85. @AaronB

    Islam is s universal religion.

    Yes, and that’s a huge part of the problem with it.

    Plus, it had no options for others to join the master race, unlike Islam, and had zero ethical standards for treating out group members. Much lower than Islam.

    Probably true, but Islam is still pretty bad.
    Anyway, thanks for your reply.

  86. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    And while Israelis in Israel can be quite nice and polite and incredibly helpful and the reputation of rude Israelis is overblown, you are always in danger of experiencing instances of shocking and extraordinary rudeness which is hardly true in Europe or anywhere else I’ve been. And Israelis overseas can be monsters.

    There’s no Western customer service, people in the shops working is grumpy. People who work in shops think it is below their level, and act like they do a favour for the customers. And the Russian-speaking women, and the Mizrahi guys, usually seem the most grumpy.

    When I wanted a refund in the train station, and I fill in the form (I put my signature in the wrong place), and the guy is acting like ‘you fucking idiot’.

    But the social capital is very high – in the case of seeing strangers helping old people with shopping bags, or that they chase after you to tell you your bag is open. If you ask for directions, they can try to take you to the place. And of course, it is very safe outside of a few illegal immigrant area (kids could walk through the city park in the middle of the night, I would not worry).

    This is representative of my experiences:

    • Replies: @AaronB
  87. @Dmitry

    I’m in love with Israel the same way as with any country that I know personally.

    No you clearly have what in America is called a “passionate attachment” to Israel. That is a good thing. It means you love Jews. You should be proud of your bizarre, totally inexplicable, passionate attachment for the 2nd word, decadent cesspool of rootless cowards than is the contemporary State of Israel. Own it.

    Now we just need to cure you of your love for beaners and your hatred of white Americans.

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans? Is Dmitry’s love for them normal? I know that Europeans all worship Amerindians (which is fine, Amerindians are cool).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @German_reader
  88. songbird says:
    @AP

    By “toehold” what I mean is not so much a military strength, so much as an information network. How many of those seemingly few blacks are in communication with their families in Africa? I bet pretty near all of them, and I guarantee you the ones in the Ukraine are the envy of the ones in Africa. The women alone would make it a paradise compared to Nigeria.

    When you’ve seen your first hair straightening or weave salon – the first businesses catering specifically to blacks, then you will begin to appreciate their numbers.

    My point is not that the Ukraine has turned, merely that it is not safe, unless very proactive. It has happened too many times to be complacent about it. Before Western Europe, it was US metropolitan areas during the Great Migration of blacks from the South. Detroit used to be called the Paris of the West.

    • Replies: @utu
  89. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group.

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury. They right a way fall into the trap of being those Whites who enslaved Africans and exterminated Indians who also are Americans for racist reasons. Referring to themselves as Europeans will not catch a traction in America which always saw itself as an anti-European or at least superior to Europe civilization. I guess also for Russians it might be harder to find unambiguous and not offensive self-identifcation because all those Russia’s citizens from Muslim republics can’t be easily dismissed. Sailer’s ‘invade the world invite the world’ applies to Russia even more than to America. Russians must dance around the whiteness and fall back to Christian Orthodoxy which certainly does not suit everybody. One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms. On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.

  90. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    For example, when I was in San Francisco last summer, I was a bit more shocked by some African American groups running around fighting in the street.

    My hotel was next to Union Square. On one side was really nicer, and elitest. But then walking in the other direction for about 2 minutes (I can’t remember which direction exactly), and it was a really shady area with a lot of groups of blacks guys running in the street and pushing each other.

    But you know the general atmosphere is a little chaotic – walking in San Francisco in the evening, we even were wondering how there were quite a few random mentally ill (white) people walking next to you and shouting things at the moon.

  91. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans? Is Dmitry’s love for them normal? I know that Europeans all worship Amerindians (which is fine, Amerindians are cool).

    Of course, there is love for Mexico – even knowledge of cactus and sombreros.

    -

    Sometimes love in a bad way

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654824/Two-teenagers-killed-fall-sixth-floor-balcony-riverside-apartment-block-south-London.html

  92. @Greasy William

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans?

    We feel great sympathy for them in Germany, one of our biggest regrets regarding WW1 is that there wasn’t a Mexican-German alliance and we couldn’t help Mexicans reverse the injustice of the Mexican-American war. Left-wingers admire the heroic struggle of the Mexican people against US imperialism, and even many neo-Nazis regard Mexicans as honorary Aryans.

  93. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    His impression of Tel Aviv railway station made you think he is lying?

    Train Travel in Israel Is Anything but Romantic

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/.premium-train-travel-in-israel-is-anything-but-romantic-1.5435738

    But Israeli trains are functional, not fun. The views are unimpressive – dusty, dirty and crowded. At no time did more than a minute or two elapse without houses intruding on the view. Seen from the train, Israel looks like one long unbroken stretch of buildings – and the construction is ongoing. Moreover, while the trains were clean, the windows were often dirty.

    The stations, in contrast, were nightmares, almost without exception. Access to the platforms was inconvenient, often consisting of a narrow flight of stairs, and the food sold there is stale, tasteless and expensive. Having eaten at three different stations, my conclusion was that dying of hunger is preferable.

    The exception was Haifa, whose main station was built by the British 80 years ago. The location is superb, in the heart of the lower city

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  94. @Niccolo Salo

    Is alarmism such a bad thing? If you don’t destroy the beginnings of cancer, how do you prevent it from metasizing? It seems concerning if there’s a parade of five thousand people and no “lax security” to allow hooligans to do what is necessary. If the immune system has been disabled, then you can only expect the sickness to spread as it becomes obvious that virtue-signaling for the poz is profitable and status-earning.

  95. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    I know his comment is invented from many different reasons, and he knows it too.

    But this was the first thing I saw that shows it.

    As for the train stations at the airport is nice and modern, the ones in Tel Aviv so too. It’s a contrast to the other things in the country (especially the bus stations).

    The trains themselves are really modern, nice, and better than in a lot of Europe.

    These stations are safe, modern, even clean toilets (it’s a miracle compared to the bus station). (There’s one train station in Tel Aviv I do not like, but that is not because of the station itself – which is modern – but because of the neighbourhood around). The neighbourhood is a complete horror film.

    I don’t know if I have to hold your hand and take you around one in real life.

    -

    Here is how the train runs from the airport. (It’s all modern and nothing at all dilapidated – the problem is if you get there when the train is close, and you have to walk outside the airport and get one of the chaotic free bus from the airport).

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Daniel Chieh
  96. utu says:
    @songbird

    There were 25,000 Blacks Germany after WWI. During Nazi regime couple dozens were sent to camps for antisocial behavior. Blacks were not target for being blacks except for sex with Aryans, I think. I think only one died in KL. I had a discussion with German_reader about it but not do not remember all details I dug up. This number of blacks were not a problem and probably not noticeable because the regime was strict and stern. You did not fuck with Nazis. With lax regime and lax immigration laws to keep the numbers of blacks low the numbers will grow. Germany now has about 800,000 blacks. This will happen to Eastern Europe once their economic level and welfare befits become more enticing.

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration. What is needed is a creative obstructionism by ‘enlightened’ administration to implement unspoken policies to keep their numbers as low as possible. Obviously the best would be to have an official and enforceable no immigration, period. But it will never happen. They will have exceptions. Like for Jews in Ukraine. and then for somber else. It is also possible to have extremely strict naturalization laws and strict reunification laws. Stricter than Swiss. SJWs wold complain but they have no legal case.

  97. 22pp22 says:
    @utu

    The Left really do take no prisoners as those who tried to stand up to grooming gangs found out.

    They didn’t attack them on the issue of grooming gangs. They would find some weak point, any weak point, and attack them on that.

    The Left regard their enemies as demon spawn and they will destroy them by any means at their disposal.

    They are relentless, pitiless, self-righteous and they have NO conscience.

  98. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    I know his comment is invented from many different reasons, and he knows it too.

    You haven’t made a good case for it.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  99. @utu

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration

    It would be enough to end the asylum system and deport illegal immigrants. It’s not like most Africans coming to Germany are skilled immigrants arriving in legal ways.

    • Replies: @utu
  100. @Dmitry

    Are clean toilets supposed to be an astounding thing in a first world country?

    • LOL: songbird
  101. songbird says:

    I would honestly say that they are in America. They shouldn’t be – but they are. Depends where you are, but try finding a public toilet in the city and it can be pretty tough.

    I imagine it is a confluence of factors. Drugs, gays, homeless (who used to be institutionalized). But, in some places, it really is hard to find one. I’m pretty sure, they closed some down compared to like 50 or 60 years ago.

    Probably the complete opposite for Japan, but most of the first world is a confluence of the first and third today. It is kind of bizarre, for the way it is tolerated. I mean try finding a street without human waste in it, or a subway that doesn’t smell like urine – very difficult in some places.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Daniel Chieh
  102. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    The most disgusting ones ever I see in Spain and Italy.

    In Spain I got some stain on liquid shit on quite new pair of shoes.

    In California, I think the toilets overall were clean (I didn’t use train, just airports, shopping malls, etc).

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  103. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Yes, plus “creative obstructionism by ‘enlightened’ administration to implement unspoken policies” so everybody is on the same page.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  104. songbird says:
    @utu

    Germany was lucky to lose its colonies in WWI. Contrast to Britain, colonies Germany lost are now part of the Commonwealth, even though they were never really British colonies. The British only controlled a tiny sliver of Cameroon – it is now in the Commonwealth. Rwanda was handed over directly to the Belgians – Commonwealth. Sure, it is not an organization with a lot of power, but any special relationship with African countries is a bad one and can only get worse, the longer it continues.

    I’m not sure bureaucracy is capable of enlightened behavior on immigration, anymore. What is the dividing line? I don’t know – woman’s suffrage, unionization, or a diversity threshold. Maybe, the Ukraine is safely on the other side of that, but it doesn’t sound like it. I mean, Germany had colonies, so there was an excuse.

    If egalitarianism before the law is the political constraint, then I think reciprocity should be promoted among the races. If for instance, there aren’t many ethnic Ukrainians living in Africa, there shouldn’t be many Africans in the Ukraine.

    Though the approach I would prefer would be built around algorithms and DNA. Absolutely, technically feasible, if many would reject it. I honestly think an EU, where whites could travel freely, within reasonable limits, would appeal to the white Left, if they fully understood the alternatives.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  105. @utu

    “creative obstructionism by ‘enlightened’ administration to implement unspoken policies”

    Which already exists, just not in the way I want it. The current unspoken policy is to keep Germany open for every invader that manages to reach the German border, while pretending the “crisis” is over.

  106. @songbird

    The US is really wild if you think about it. Where I live, horses graze a little bit outside my back yard. They’re technically owned by people in mobile houses and trailers, but I suppose they figured that they have plenty of room to roam if left to run around.

    Where I work, its one of those gleaming SWPL paradises where everything prices out NAMs and for that matter, a good percentage of whites as well. I don’t spend a lot of time there – but some people apparently really like it. Having been very impoverished at one point in my life, I don’t identify with them. I still remember what it is like to walk home with groceries under the blazing sun, and drop a bag to lose part of a day’s paycheck to an accident.

    If I take the rail, or if I choose to drive a bit further into the heart of the city, drugged blacks wander around in the stations. Some of them, clearly mentally deranged, will randomly run up and “playfully” tackle you in rather pathetic little efforts at robbery. No one prosecutes them, its clear that something is wrong with them and its clear that they’re not actually that harmful, but at the same time, letting them amuck is probably a bad idea.

    I think random, poorly-kept horses popping up in my backyard are far superior in comparison.

    Funny thing is that its all like three hours from each other.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  107. Pericles says:
    @utu

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites.

    Still plenty of demonization, I’m afraid. So, wearing a blue-and-yellow T-shirt (as per Swedish flag) would label you as a racist rube a few years ago. It might now too. Likewise, an older organization calling itself “Sverige åt svenskarna” (Sweden for the Swedes) was of course labeled as racist. And the Sweden Democrats, equally naturally.

    In summary: If you stand up to the globalists, you’re racist.

  108. @songbird

    Germany was lucky to lose its colonies in WWI.

    It makes zero difference. As long as Germany keeps its absoluty insane asylum laws which are unparalleled anywhere else in the world, we’ve got a situation where de facto every Arab or African can come, claim asylum and have a very high chance of never getting deported.
    Whether a country had a colonial histoy or not, is quite irrelevant today imo, just look at Sweden. There just is this pernicious narrative that blacks have some kind of right to immigrate to every white country they want to, and Africans are aggressively demanding this “right”.

    • Replies: @songbird
  109. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    He’s 20 years old now. He claims to have been there in 2015, when he was 17 years old, and in the story in his first post that he was travelling on his own.

    He manages to get every concrete detail of the country wrong, or inverted, about the places he visited. (From the modern train station in the airport onwards).

    Meanwhile, he has miraculously been allowed past security every time and never stopped (literally impossible 100% – I get stopped all the time there), treated better than Mizrahi Jews (i.e. all the local Israelis), yet “wryly” discussed time-keeping with locals (the issue arose due to his being assumed to be German), and has a special kinship with Ethiopian Jews (despite that he is right-wing) who he witnesses being publicly mistreated on public transport, and who condolence with him as a fellow outsider.

    The 17 year old also has somehow visited Hebron and explored security situation of the West Bank, in addition to travelling security free through all the supermarkets and shops (while claiming they are higher security in North Tel Aviv, and having lived in the Arab quarter of the town, yet believed he was being better treated by racist Israelis as a European there – yet almost all the hospitality staff in that area are open Arabs?).

    An imaginary narrative (funnily left-wing oriented) to match the stories in the Max Blumenthal book that we telling me he was reading last week – and in which I replied that he needs to get first-hand experience of the country.

    • Replies: @utu
  110. @utu

    “Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration.”
    people should be banned for life to immigrate if they were born in a country which at the time of their birth had a TFR higher than e.g. 3.0. This rule would not explicitly target Subsaharan Africans, but it would work anyway. Also it would be a reasonable reaction to the core problem: one-sided demographic expansion.

  111. Pericles says:
    @AaronB

    The Right has no access to the long-term deep indoctrination centres, that’s why it has some trouble attracting students hailing therefrom. It’s certainly less fatalistic than the Left, which is secular, materialistic, nihilistic and so on.

    Liberal idealism springs from intellectual vanity and lack of experience, and some conformism and virtue signaling. I read this interesting science article on buzzfeed; oh I’m actually a PhD in Psychology; of course we together can implement utopia (which will be like a university department but with plentiful funding and everyone has tenure).

    • Replies: @AaronB
  112. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader

    Nazism was fundamentally about love of the German people.

    Could be.

    The problem was, is, it was also fundamentally about…. disdain (perhaps) for Slavic people.
    Disdain at least……Some would even say hate. More to the East from German borders, more of that sentiment……

    Not much love for Anglos either. More than for Slavs, of course, but still.

    So, selling that to Whites can’t work well. Plenty of those are of Slavic stock.

    Now, some form of National-Socialism is another matter. Augh, did I just say “socialism”? Bad…bad word for the “right”.

    So, there was, is, definitely something with Nazi ideology. From deep about human nature to organization of society. How much of that something was/is “reusable” could be debatable. Could. Most of the time isn’t.

    Related to that “isn’t”, I am hoping you aren’t going to challenge that sentiment re Slavic people. Plenty of such characters on this board already. I just skip over their posts. Nothing personal. As I skip over vegan posts re food etc.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  113. @peterAUS

    My comment wasn’t meant as a defense of Nazism.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  114. peterAUS says:
    @Niccolo Salo

    Agree.

    My take: Organize Karlin’s visit to Herzegovina. Give him a good guide/translator and have him visit a couple of places there. Have him speak with common people.

    And, should you feel generous, get him “over the line”. Have him visit the part to the East.

    And, should you really feel generous, get him to visit the region along the Drina river.

    I am sure he’ll expand his understanding of the region and people. He’ll probably edit the article.
    As, quote:
    “I just read the full entry by Arpad Virag.

    It is complete bullshit.”

  115. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader

    My comment wasn’t meant as a defense of Nazism.

    Wow…..
    Fast.

    Of course.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  116. AaronB says:
    @Pericles

    Fair enough, but why did the Right lose access to the long term indoctrination centers? They used to have complete control.

    The right wing power holders seem to have been unable to retain their position of strength. And high IQ people seem to have overwhelmingly found the message of the Left more appealing.

    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.

    How is the Left nihilistic? The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn’t enough. What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic – with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Pericles
    , @Bliss
  117. @peterAUS

    It really wasn’t, and imo that should have been obvious. I just object to AaronB’s babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.
    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn’t support such a project.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @AaronB
  118. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    Sweden is the bane of confactuals. No world wars. No colonies to speak of, unless you count New Sweden. I had hoped it is just something particularly wrong with Sweden, but we are starting to see it in other places now.

    It makes zero difference.

    You are absolutely right – in the long run. Though, I think the UK and France had an early start. Partly, because they were looking to cultivate a special relationship with the natives. It even enters into the rhetoric a lot today, but perhaps that is just blather. But, things are heating up, the rate is increasing in places that didn’t even have the early start, soon they may match or even exceed.

    I know I have used the phrase before, probably tiresomely, but deportation is basically theater of the mind. To begin with, you need border control. Without it, deportation is useless, maybe worse than useless because it convinces some that things are under control or won’t go too far. The truth is there is no limit to how bad things will get with an open border. Unless, some of the MENA people decide to turn away blacks.

    A good immigration system would be like an immune system with various components and layers of action working in concert. I think you need good incentives at each layer. Now the way things are working – they are incentivizing the refugees. Own a hotel that is empty outside the season? It will be filled, and the government will pay you to fill it. Instead, I would pay bounties 1000 Euros/head to capture illegal aliens – but that is after the other things have been taken care of – the border, the welfare, employment (few this last would apply to, though). Infiltrating African communications over the internet and spreading disinformation would probably help too.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  119. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    That’s true, Israelis will be incredibly helpful to you on a personal level, while at the same time being brusque and rude on a general level, with frequent incidents of extraordinarily anti social behavior.

    It’s a weird high octane combination. But you’re right that if you need any kind of help, they’ll go out of their way for you. But then they’ll stun you the next day with some insane anti social act.

    I prefer Japanese style politeness, courtoisie, delicacy, refinement, and the courtly manners of Old Europe, which at its best is quite compatible with personal warmth, but I also appreciate the Israel style with its weird quirks.

  120. @songbird

    I know I have used the phrase before, probably tiresomely, but deportation is basically theater of the mind. To begin with, you need border control.

    We’ve got neither right now; iirc number of successful deportations from Germany is 20 000 a year – while about 200 000 new “refugees” are arriving every year. If you don’t cooperate, you probably won’t get deported, and of course many countries aren’t cooperating in taking back their citizens, and there’s no attempt to force them.
    One can only conclude that the political establishment wants this mass immigration, and unless more Germans wake up and vote hard right, this isn’t going to change.

  121. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader

    I just object to AaronB’s babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.

    Agree.

    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn’t support such a project.

    Well, even if you had wouldn’t make a difference.

    But, the question(s) remain: “Good and bad, contemporary, elements of Nazi ideology”. Practical.

    As for the resident , what, “idealist” (a couple of them around) I do think he/they have something here:

    The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn’t enough. What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic – with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?

    What he/they, somehow, fail to see is what happens when masses realize that “endless progress towards social perfection” ain’t working as advertised.
    Last time happened in Communist block. Late 80′s last century? What, less than 40 years ago?
    But….haha…this time it will be different.
    Sure.

    Those US, British and, apparently even Italian “deplorables” don’t feel that way anymore.

    We know what, usually, happens then.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @AaronB
  122. @peterAUS

    We know what, usually, happens then.

    What’s going to happen in your opinion?

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  123. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    Don’t object to my babble. Its good babble.

    But what is your vision? As far as I can see, you seem to be focusing on the practical. That immigration leads to all sorts of bad practical consequences.

    You’re right, but I’d say its obvious by now that most people are willing to suffer if it’s for idealistic reasons.

    Do you still think that by pointing out the bad consequences of immigration you’re gonna win people to your side? Hasn’t this failed?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  124. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    What happens is that it gets replaced by another vision of endless progress towards perfection, possibly even more insane. Maybe with a short interval of practical considerations reigning.

    If humans demand progress in some form, and are fundamentally uninterested in stability and order for its own sake, then history is the record of competing visions of progress.

    And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem doomed to sitting history out on the sidelines, shaking their heads at the folly of mankind. Like people on this blog, perhaps.

    Which is a legitimate position to take. But it means giving up on having an influence. It seems only those who have a vision of progress can have an impact.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  125. DFH says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Why is a Chinese living in the US anyway? Leave

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  126. DFH says:
    @AaronB

    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.

    101 for how to make yourself stupider with a worse understanding of the world. In fact the exact opposite of this paragraph would be good advice for you.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  127. @AaronB

    Hasn’t this failed?

    It hasn’t even been tried imo.
    And why do I need a vision, except in the sense of wishing for a functioning society not in thrall to suicidal delusions? Emphasizing that a grave injustice is being perpetrated against us should be effective enough. Contrary to your assertions, I think if most people realized the full consequences of what’s going on, they wouldn’t be willing to suffer it for idealistic reasons.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  128. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    You don’t need a vision beyond a functioning society that’s pleasant to live in, but any political program that’s only about that won’t have a lot of impact. I think history has shown that beyond a doubt.

    You disagree and think its just a question of explaining things properly to people – that they simply don’t understand they are making things less pleasant for themselves. That’s it’s a cognitive error, not a question of values.

    This is a massive error in my view that simply ignores nine tenths of the historical record. Its like you’re thinking of another species, not humans.

    But I also make the mistake of thinking resistance to my spiritual message is just a cognitive error that can be cleared up if properly explained.

    But of course it can’t be because neither of us are dealing with a cognitive error, but something much more fundamental.

    We are fools :)

  129. @Dmitry

    The most disgusting ones ever I see in Spain and Italy.

    Just goes to show that we all have different impressions of places. I have travelled around Spain far more than you, and have found the toilets to be generally quite clean, far more so than in France for example. Indeed, in the part of France where we lived many of the public toilets (including those in the schools attended by my children) were “Turkish” toilets.

    I have to say that the worst toilets by far I ever experienced were in the late- and early post-USSR. I recall one of my colleagues complaining about a particular restroom saying that “it smelled like shit”, and another replying “Yes, but what have they done to it?”.

    I assume that things there are much better now.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  130. AaronB says:
    @DFH

    How do you mean?

    It seems to me the mechanics of a situation are always the result of first principles.

    One can make a simple observation that the Right has lost the indoctrination centers, and conclude they need to be retaken. That’s a simple mechanical process.

    But if the Right lost power because it’s message subtly changed into something without appeal, and the Left gained power because it’s message has appeal, then it seems the intelligent thing to do is first understand these processes before you can focus on regaining power.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  131. @AaronB

    It seems to me the mechanics of a situation are always the result of first principles.

    Your talk of spiritual values, “faith in God” etc. has zero appeal as a political slogan.
    Emphasizing the concrete negative consequences of mass immigration is much better. Talk about the housing shortage created by the influx of foreigners and how it makes the situation even harder for young families and those lower down the economic scale. Talk about the rise in crime and how it increasingly restricts women’s freedom of movement. Talk about the immense sums spent on people who have never contributed anything to the system and are unlikely to do so and which instead could be spent on citizens. You need to get people to understand that their own future is being destroyed by a government of traitors and you need them to get to see the foreigners as ungrateful parasites who aren’t deserving of our help and are exploiting our charity, without the slightest intention of ever reciprocating. You need to whip up rage and hatred in people. It’s ugly, but there is no other way.

    • Agree: Hyperborean
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @peterAUS
    , @Anon
  132. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    You are right, in today’s world my talk of god and spiritual values has zero appeal. Especially since these words have lost their meaning of pursuit of perfection and have come mean restrictive rules whose purpose is practical.

    Which means your practical concerns likewise aren’t going to have a serious impact.

    For the time we are at an impasse, and the Left will continue to have it all its way.

    I would only say that whatever manages to supplant the Left eventually will have to beat it on its own terms – idealism.

  133. @DFH

    I’m here so you can see an example of a better person than yourself.

  134. Pericles says:
    @AaronB

    Fair enough, but why did the Right lose access to the long term indoctrination centers? They used to have complete control.

    I think the literal answer to this question is found back in 1968, at least in Europe. But probably about the same in the US.

  135. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    And thank you for that. We learn by having good models to inspire us.

  136. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader

    Shooting.

    What level, who, where, how and when is open to debate.

    I’d go for, as most likely, start in Balkans and spread around.
    Conventional.

    From then on who knows?

  137. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    What happens is that it gets replaced by another vision of endless progress towards perfection, possibly even more insane.

    Could be. With Huxley version of future to enforce that.

    Or….bloody ethnic/civil war(s).
    “Us” vs “them”.

    If humans demand progress in some form, and are fundamentally uninterested in stability and order for its own sake, then history is the record of competing visions of progress.

    That’s one way to look at it.
    Another is “then history is the record of competing groups fighting each other”.

    And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem doomed to sitting history out on the sidelines, shaking their heads at the folly of mankind. Like people on this blog, perhaps.

    Could be.
    Or “And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem destined to “clear” the “other” from their territories while loving doing it. Like a lot of people not posting anything anywhere. Not the type”.

    It seems only those who have a vision of progress can have an impact.

    You mean “get rid of THEM and all will be fine”.?
    Looks to me it has worked as charm throughout history of humankind whenever masses didn’t get enough of “breads and circuses”.

    You know, such things, when start, have own logic.
    Starting it isn’t that hard. Actually, when conditions are right not starting it is very hard.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  138. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    I suspect he might be not honest about his age. It is possible that it was one little unnecessary lie that he has to keep on or that it was an anti self-doxxing measure of which he said he was concerned of not so long ago. But I have no problems with anything he writes except it is just too good to come from a 20 year old but not impossible. As far as his description of Israel, wherever it comes from, it feels more credible than your usually Pollyannish spin. Anyway I am ready to have more of Polish Perspective’s comment coming here.

  139. Dmitry says:
    @for-the-record

    Just goes to show that we all have different impressions of places. I have travelled around Spain far more than you, and have found the toilets to be generally quite clean, far more so than in France for example. Indeed, in the part of France where we lived many of the public toilets (including those in the schools attended by my children) were “Turkish” toilets.

    I have to say that the worst toilets by far I ever experienced were in the late- and early post-USSR. I recall one of my colleagues complaining about a particular restroom saying that “it smelled like shit”, and another replying “Yes, but what have they done to it?”.

    I assume that things there are much better now.

    I don’t know if you mean public toilets. If you visit my hometown, I would tell you to avoid public toilets (unless it is some kind of health emergency or you needed desperately somewhere that is too disgusting for police to enter, in which to inject your heroin in quiet). There are some which are not connected to the sewage system.

    Also in the most expensive suburb outside the city, there is a story that at the end of the transport line, the city does not build toilets – so all the bus drivers are shitting on the ground.

    -

    As for Spain. I remember in airports in Spain, it is clean. The more gross experience was in a famous sandwich pub. And a couple of times in other place I open the door, and then just walk out.

    I am also confused by the jokes they put on the door to indicate if it is for men or for women.

    The other funny thing in Spain for me is how all the stuff and paper they randomly throw on the floor in the pub to cover it with paper trash (wtf is the reason for this).

  140. @DFH

    Why do you care if Daniel Chieh is a U.S. citizen or not? You’re not even American, are you?

    • Replies: @Anon
  141. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Why? he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB), i.e. he knows nothing, as he has never been.

    I can tell instantly the forgeries, because I know the place personally.

    I think Westerners have mind that will believe anything that fits their emotional view though.

    -

    Also he was claiming that someone was impersonating him on the Shamir forum.

    P.S.

    If you look at my profile, it seems someone has been using my name and posting comments on Israel Shamir articles. I don’t know what’s more insulting, that someone would impersonate me or that someone would even think I would post on such articles in the first place.

    To be clear, I almost only post on AK blogs. I have posted a few odd comments on iSteve. To the extent I post anything outside those two blogs it is never on Russia. All Russia-related stuff(including Russian actions in Syria, which doesn’t interest me greatly to begin with) will be posted on AK. So if anyone sees my name on Shamir/Saker/whatever articles, know it is fake. I hope the imposter gets rooted out. I certainly don’t want to get my comment history wiped because of some douchebag using my name.

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/armenia-update/?highlight=ip#comment-2299615

    Lol how can the person trolling you, both share your IP address, and also know your email address to log-in to your account, unless they are also using the same computer?

  142. @Dmitry

    I think Westerners have mind that will believe anything that fits their emotional view though.

    That’s harsh.
    I personally find some elements of Polish perspective’s Israel report a bit strange, but since I’ve never been there I can’t judge for sure, and I don’t care enough to look into it.
    In general one should be somewhat skeptical about anything people claim about themselves on the net anyway.

  143. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate. That’s why the Left reigns supreme. And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  144. @Dmitry

    he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB),

    How about me, was my visit fake too?

    And considering that you seem to take pride in not having read much if anything about the historical background of the current situation, what gives you the right to pronounce yourself the master of all things related to Israel?

  145. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate. That’s why the Left reigns supreme. And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.

    That’s one way to look at it.

    There is another:
    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate the public sphere. The “talking” sphere.
    Reality, in those places, is different from the “talking” sphere.

    Even in West one can see that.
    Everybody was talking Hilary victory and Brexit failing. Nobody was talking this in Italy. Etc.

    In Eastern Europe that’s on the next level.

    That’s why the Left reigns supreme.

    It does . In the “talking” sphere.
    You, as most of over-educated but politically inexperienced people confuse that sphere with reality.

    And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.

    I see.

    No prob.
    We’ll see how unimportant Europe will be when the shooting there starts.
    Like a couple of times before……..

    You know, I had chats with people like you once upon a time.
    They had all the arguments, won all the debates. Reigned supreme in “talking” space.

    The other guys just had guns……..

    • Replies: @AaronB
  146. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    The people with guns today are often very idealistic and religious. I’m sure they’ll be a force to be reckoned with. I’m not talking about those people when I talk about people with no vision.

    I’m talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live. I don’t think such people are likely to influence history. I’m sure he’d agree and say why should he want to. He’s right.

    I’m just pointing out that the people who supplant the Left will want more out of life than just a nice place to live. They may well be your men with guns.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Bliss
  147. @AaronB

    I’m talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live.

    No, you’re wrong, I do want more. Above all I want vengeance and a harsh punishment for those responsible for the present situation. It’s not just about a pleasant life and material comfort, it’s about justice.

    • Agree: Greasy William
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Greasy William
  148. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.

    And how AK was able to determine that? I could not find PP’s comments under Shamir articles. Somebody deleted them? Who? Under what authority?

    It can be nothing. But perhaps PP has reason to feel paranoid about somebody doxxing him or is it gaslighting?

    As far as Israel goes you really do not have that much credibility with your almost always Pollyannish stories. Somebody once called them an affable hasbara, I think. The fact that most of us have never been to Israel does not mean that we can’t form opinions about it and determine which stories seems right and which are not. Your seem to be controlling about Israel as if you wanted to have a monopoly on the narrative. You haven’t seen everything and you haven’t been everywhere and you should assume as every reasonable observer you are not entirely objective either. For instance I found this article about railways and railway stations in Israel where they say that the stations are nor really great and food is horrible. To which you posted some video of somebody being at airport and traveling on train. Airports usually look good and PP did not mention the airport iirc. Did this video contradict anything PP wrote?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Greasy William
  149. Dmitry says:
    @for-the-record

    he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB and for-the-record),

    You are my editors or something?

    And neither have I read for years any history book about Russia. But I can promise you, if someone tells me they can pass through any security checks (had we had such security checks happening multiple times a day) from their hair colour, or that they had some special rapport with publicly ignored minority group such as Ossetians – while on public transport – as ones who had in some Ossetian way also magically recognized the European tourist as a fellow outsider. That they had not been to the country. Probably we should add something more creative about riding bears to tell these people.

  150. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    For instance I found this article about railways and railway stations in Israel where they say that the stations are nor really great and food is horrible. To which you posted some video of somebody being at airport and traveling on train. Airports usually look good and PP did not mention the airport iirc. Did this video contradict anything PP wrote?

    Did you read your article. He’s complaining that the stations (in Israel in general) do not have shade and that food is not good.

    I can’t say as I would never go to train station to eat food.

    But the train stations (from the airport and when you get to Tel Aviv) is really modern, and completely opposite of dilapidated. The shock of dilapidation and shabbiness happens when you leave the train station.

    (Especially if you get out at hahagana station, you will find yourself in one of the most the most third-world and shabby area in Asia – but the station itself is not the shabby thing. The shock is a few minutes later when you walk out in that part of town).

    Again it’s all basic stuff, which shows if you’ve been there, or – as in this case – invented a fake story.

  151. @for-the-record

    How about me, was my visit fake too?

    Ignore him. He is obviously hyperemotional about Israel for reasons which are not rational.

  152. @utu

    Your usage of the term “Pollyannish” was incorrect. Please be more careful in the future about the adjectives you use when posting on these threads.

    • Replies: @utu
  153. @utu

    Anyway I am ready to have more of Polish Perspective’s comment coming here.

    There is not much to add. I am 20 right now, though that fact will change later this summer. I went to Israel in the fall of 2015, close to Christmas, so I was 18 back then. Perhaps my age played a role, I don’t know. Honestly, I don’t really care. I made a number of social observations and I stand by them.

  154. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    Now you’re talking. Anger is a better than apathy. Although anger also must be overcome on the way to spiritual perfection.

    But anger, vengeance, and justice are spiritually healthier than apathy.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  155. @utu

    Why such a complex plan? Why not simply make them self-deport. I heard this in connection with Mitt Romney (probably the only good idea he ever had) and I like the idea.

    Just harass them and make their lives so utterly miserable on every level of life so that they couldn’t possibly survive and they will leave in the end.

    • Replies: @utu
  156. @utu

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury

    They do refer to themselves primarily as Swedish. Sometimes the phrase ‘Nordic race’ is used. However, they are remarkably sanguine about integrating other European ethnicities with the exception of some Balkan types.

    Simon Lindberg, who is the leader of NMR, also openly talks about the white race, though as an ancillary concept and not a primary one to their world view.

    I think your comment gets at a fundamental divide, namely that the US is a mishmash of various white ethnicities and Europe, for the most part, is not. Though this is changing in some Western European countries. 20% of German new-borns are of mixed European parentage. This caused some furore a few years ago as “40% of German newborns have migrant background” and the right-wing was in up arms. Few actually bothered to check the actual data. When you did, you noticed that half of those 40% were inter-Europeans offspring. German_reader is a mix of British and German if I am not mistaken. So this is already increasingly a reality in Europe and groups like NMR are cognisant of that. As more and more sub-Saharan and MENA peoples move into Europe, I suspect we will see greater a strengthening of a Pan-European identity slowly emerge, though for reasons which the EU will not be pleased about.

    One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms.

    This is very true. Catholicism is still a very dominant aspect of what it means to be Polish, much to my chagrin.

    On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.

    The Polish left are actually correct when they point out that Poland has historically been quite multicultural and that today’s Poland is a historical anomaly which was created largely because of actions of Nazi Germany during WWII and then by Stalin as he wanted neat blocs of ethnically-defined countries, and as such encouraged either ethnic cleansing of the remaining Germans or population movements (many Poles from what is today’s Western Ukraine and even parts of Belarus were moved to today’s Poland).

    My thinking on this has changed over the last year. I used to think our history doomed the right-wing’s position in the debate over the long term but now I am not so sure if history matters that much. Some of the Scandinavian countries have been extremely homogeneous for most of their history, yet have embraced mass migration by the 3rd world with gusto, the aforementioned Sweden is a prime example but even Norway is very liberal. By contrast, China has a history of population movements of outsiders yet their current government is amazing on this aspect. We don’t tend to appreciate the diversity of related peoples they had to contend with, just as many non-Europeans do not keep track of all European ethnicities, aside from the big ones.

    I don’t think Ukrainians or Belorussians becoming Polish will present big difficulties as these are brotherly peoples. The bigger problem is if we are going to get increasing numbers of non-white citizens. Right now the problem is small. We naturalised just around 3000 people last year and the vast majority of them were other East Europeans. It takes around between 7 to 10 years to get Polish citizenship if you do not have any ancestry (which quite a few Ukrainians and Belorussians do), depending upon who your spouse is.

    So we have maybe 10-15 years before we will see large(r) numbers of non-whites get Polish citizenship. There are certainly worse positions to be in, but at the same time, we are more bluepilled on race than many other nations in Europe. It’s a race against 25 years of leftist-neoliberal hegemony which has not really been broken by PiS but at best mildly challenged. I for one think that the developments in the West will be key for us. I agree with those who say that the West is more stable than many think and if it just keeps going, Poland will likely drift in this direction sooner or later with increasing speed rather than away from it, as will most of Eastern Europe in general. We’re interconnected, whether we like it or not.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anarcho-Supremacist
  157. @German_reader

    Exactly. I don’t want a better life for myself. I want a worse life for the Left.

  158. utu says:
    @Hyperborean

    OK. Tell how you and your Romney will go about? Not about illegals which is easy but about the green card holders?

    But when I wrote it I was thinking about Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans. Europeans must strive to not let themselves to see themselves like Americans who see themselves as immigrants who are guilty on top of it. Europeans are not immigrants. They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good. And because misery likes company they will do everything to bring it on Europeans.

    • Replies: @Bliss
    , @Hyperborean
  159. Bliss says:

    But the Right’s human capital problem makes it very hard to attract the high IQ, which results in Swine leaders, which lowers the prestige associated with being on the Right, exacerbating the human capital problem even further, etc.

    The Right is inferior not just in intelligence but also in character and morality.

    Just look at the ugly hatreds of their demonic circle jerks. They revel in what’s bad and recoil from what’s good. They identify their enemies as do-gooders, social justice warriors, egalitarians etc. Genocide is a viable option to these warriors of hate. They proudly fly the flags of Nazi Germany and the Confederacy. Inspired by ISIS they dream of “White Sharia”.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  160. @Bliss

    They proudly fly the flags of Nazi Germany and the Confederacy.

    lol, I’m sure that’s exactly what every right-winger does, especially in Eastern Europe.
    And left-wingers of course are completely non-violent and don’t hate anybody at all.
    Seriously, spare us this nonsense.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  161. Bliss says:
    @utu

    Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans……… They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good.

    Europe owns the notoriety of waging some of the most barbaric wars in the history of mankind on its own soil: WWII, 30 Years War, Albigensian Crusade etc. It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    Europeans are also notorious the world over for the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the burning alive of free-thinking men and women in public squares etc

  162. Bliss says:
    @German_reader

    Anyone can read the posts here and see for themselves that what I wrote pretty much defines the right. Heck, even many of the Slavs here, who should know better, talk like neo-nazis.

  163. @Bliss

    It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    There was a huge humanitarian campaign waged by white Westerners against Leopold’s Free State and the abuses (which were mostly carried out by native soldiers anyway) were mostly ended.
    Belgian colonial rule after that may have had flaws, but did create significant infrastructure to the benefit of the natives. Congo’s present deplorable state is mostly the fault of the Congolese themselves.
    Btw, what is your own ethnicity? You seem rather strident in your very one-sided view of the evil white man, I wonder about the motivation for that.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  164. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    I don’t think Ukrainians or Belorussians becoming Polish will present big difficulties

    It depends. Any ethnic minority should be considered as hostile to the majority. In case of U. and B. it is possible that they may get absorbed seamlessly because they share the same external phenotype with Poles and similar religions. OTOH, differences as they get more similar they get disproportionately amplified (narcissism of small differences). So I would be concerned about large minority of Ukrainians in Poland. Ethnic diversity is never good. The only benefit are ethnic restaurants, period. Do you care for Ukrainian food? Is it that different from Polish?

    There is always a strife and extra problems you do not have to deal with in the absence of them. For instance you will have to adjust and PC sanitize your language to purge it from slur words referring to them which otherwise you would be free to use in their absence. They will have escalating demands. It also will depend on developments in Ukraine and Belarus.

    Then there are minorities that can’t be absorbed who will forever remain hostile. These are Muslims and Blacks. The latter because of external phenotype difference which can’t be overlooked or escaped from. This will always result in a formation of separate ethnic identity which will lead to unending cries about racism. And Muslims have differ cultural code which is completely incompatible and it seems that chances of breaking it are nil. One does not need IQ issue to be invoked at all. There is enough smart enough Africans in Africa but certainly you would not want them either. The talk about IQ is a dead end that might turn into a trap It really comes down to the external phenotype. It is really that simple. We should trust experience and instinct of our grandfathers. The left undermined it and compromised it.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  165. If you guys really want to see the human capital problem see here: http://www.unz.com/article/colonization-by-indian-leftists-the-downside-of-merit-based-immigration

    Notice how I am repeatedly accused of being…Indian.

    ?????!

    • Replies: @Jayce
  166. @Bliss

    Because little African noble savages with their little huts and little goats have always lived in peace and harmony with nature.

    The Second Congo War (also known as the Great War of Africa or the Great African War, and sometimes referred to as the African World War) began in August 1998 in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, little more than a year after the First Congo War, and involved some of the same issues. The war officially ended in July 2003, when the Transitional Government of the Democratic Republic of the Congo took power. Although a peace agreement was signed in 2002, violence continued in many regions of the country, especially in the east. Hostilities have continued since the ongoing Lord’s Resistance Army insurgency, and the Kivu and Ituri conflicts.

    Ultimately, nine African countries and around twenty five armed groups became involved in the war. By 2008, the war and its aftermath had caused 5.4 million deaths, principally through disease and starvation, making the Second Congo War the deadliest conflict worldwide since World War II. Another 2 million were displaced from their homes or sought asylum in neighbouring countries.

    And of course little Africans have never engaged in persecution of people due to superstition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_accusations_against_children_in_Africa

    Nor have they ever committed actrocities: http://m.dw.com/en/aid-groups-urge-action-to-stop-atrocities-by-the-lords-resistance-army/a-6352056

  167. Bliss says:
    @AaronB

    anger, vengeance, and justice are spiritually healthier than apathy.

    Also according to you human sacrificing religions, apostate killing religions, exclusivist religions are all spiritually healthier than secularism. And all kinds of superstitious bullshit is spiritually healthier than Reason. Where did you learn this spirituality?

    Apathy, (as in indifference, disinterest, detachment) towards the world is a necessary condition for release from worldly bondage. Anger and vengeance keep us attached to the worldly drama, how is that spiritually healthier?

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
  168. Jayce says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Embrace it! Now you have a chance to fight alongside Anon in the great Dharmic-Pagan vs Abrahamic war we’ve been hearing so much about.

  169. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    You are correct. Indifference to worldly concerns is the essence of spirituality. But a passionate attachment to the spiritual realm is the opposite of that.

    Anger, vengeance, and justice are by no means ideals – but it shows a capacity for dissatisfaction with the world as it is. It is the first step. Of course ultimately you must move beyond these things. But its a journey. And German reader has far to travel. Taking the first step is good.

    As for Reason, I’m not against it. That’s simplistic. We just can’t settle down in it as all there is.

  170. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    You’re thinking very “essentialistically”. Anger is bad essentially.

    Anger is obviously not the spiritual ideal. But it has its place in the stages of the path.

    Research the Buddhist concept of “skill in means”.

  171. utu says:
    @Bliss

    Europe owns the notoriety of waging some of the most barbaric wars in the history of mankind on its own soil: WWII, 30 Years War, Albigensian Crusade etc. It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    Unlike you, we Europeans wrote down our history and we know it. You otoh have no history that’s why you engage in an infantile fantasy of appropriating Ancient Egyptian history and constructing some imaginary Wakandas. You do not know what kind of senseless warfare and what kind of atrocities were going on in Africa that were perpetrated by your ancestors who you do not know. Nobody knows because your ancestors did not develop civilization that could preserve its history and memory. Your g…g-father probably was torturing enemies before killing them and eating them or selling them for color beads to the slavers. Are you feeling bad about it? Did you atone for? Obviously you do not have to at least by our cultural standards because nobody is responsible for their ancestors. We understand the law of causality. It goes in only one direction. You can’t reverse it. But at least you could reflect and ponder on it if you have rational mind. If you do not you will have to follow your heart. And what is in your heart? Murder is in your heart. It is understandable. The unreformable losers have murder in their hearts. You want it to be your destiny? Then you will have to kill us. You can hope to be like Toussaint Louverture but most likely you will end up like Nat Turner. The hate will destroy you. You do not hate us because we do hate you. Our sin is actually worse. We are indifferent. Nothing hurts like indifference. But if you will keep it up we will begin to hate you and act on it in self defense. We are not responsible for you. You are not our children. We are not your keeper. You have a free will and you can join us as a human being. It is up to you.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  172. Bliss says:
    @AaronB

    The people with guns today are often very idealistic and religious. I’m sure they’ll be a force to be reckoned with. I’m not talking about those people when I talk about people with no vision.

    So all your talk about Love and Spirituality was a lie, just as I suspected. What you really want to see is not the Truth but Holy Warriors like the Jihadis and Crusaders who will crush the votaries of Rationalism, Secularism and Egalitarianism and take the West back to the Dark Ages. Right?

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Sean
  173. @utu

    To start with:

    Impose de facto martial law in foreign-dominated ghettos.

    Forbid them from speaking their languages in public and at school.

    Crack down harshly on any ‘anti-racist’ protest and in general forbid any expression of ‘pride’ or implicit ‘black culture’ in the public sphere.

    Impose an unofficial ‘tax’ on any ‘black-style’ establishment or store.

    Encourage police not to investigate any murders or robberies commited against blacks.

    Establish harsh sentencing for habitual criminals and swindlers.

    Encourage banks not to allow them to establish bank accounts or loan money from banks.

    Encourage residents not to sell or rent out their houses to them.

    Allow the media to honestly discuss the problems they cause.

    Etc.

    If they still stay perhaps carry out bombing campaigns and confiscations of property?

    Admittedly some of this would perhaps require formal laws but most of it would be either indirect laws or unofficial rules.

  174. utu says:
    @Hyperborean

    Impose de facto martial law

    If it came to it I would have you shot first. I do not think your skills would be needed.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  175. @utu

    Why this hostility?

    • Replies: @utu
  176. @Hyperborean

    Those aren’t very realistic proposals though. Are you talking about the US? I really don’t see how they could do that to blacks with roots going back centuries in the country and with nowhere else to go, when they can’t even deport recent illegal immigrants. It actually could be seen as excessively cruel with some reason.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  177. @German_reader

    I was talking about Europe, since the conversation was about blacks in NS-Germany and modern Germany.

    For the US I would just give blacks a part of the South as an autonomous self-determination state.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  178. @Polish Perspective

    “Maybe it’s time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)”

    With all of the “Black Hebrew Israelites” that may be easier then you think.

  179. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    You have to distinguish between what I want and my diagnosis of a situation.

    I wouldn’t want the Nazis to win, but I do diagnose them as having a motivating vision and thus a force to be reckoned with.

    I do not like the Left, but it’s quite possible something worse will supplant it if it can provide a motivating vision even if its very corrupt.

    It’s because good people surrender idealism to the bad that all sorts of corrupt idealism arise, like Nazism and the Left.

    • Replies: @Anon
  180. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean

    Just as a thought experiment, I do like to think of Wakanda-propaganda:

    Communication blackout with Africa. Cut welfare to blacks down to nothing. Get rid of affirmative action. Put just 10% of what was spent on welfare into Wakanda propaganda. Make blockbuster movies starring only blacks set only in Wakanda. TV shows starring only blacks set only in Wakanda. They are all heroes – it is a technoparadise, don’t skimp of the special effects or budget – we’ve got billions and billions to spend – and it is just a fraction of what we would save.

    Put Wakanda on maps and in school textbooks of geography. Make the movies and TV shows set in Wakanda free. Ban diversity casting, and put blacks only in Wakanda stuff, but make plenty of it. Free one-way plane tickets to Wakanda, Africa, and give a $10,000 stipend per person. Sounds like a lot? It is nothing compared to the savings!

  181. @Hyperborean

    I was talking about Europe

    I don’t find it very realistic for Europe either tbh, too draconian and excessive.
    I’d propose the following steps (unfortunately also very unlikely to be implemented):
    - for Germany: complete abolition of the right to asylum as currently guaranteed in the Basic law. Complete abolition of welfare payments to people who have entered Germany illegally.
    - Africans taken up in the Mediterranean won’t be brought to Europe, but immediately taken back to North Africa, where they’ll get food and sufficient money for traveling back to their home countries. Ships of people traffickers will be destroyed.
    - NGOs facilitating illegal immigration will be prohibited, their assets seized, and anyone found guilty of aiding illegal immigration will be sentenced to at least 5 years in prison.
    - Treaties with North African states (financial subsidies, training for their border forces) so they’ll stop immigrants at their own borders.
    - African states that don’t cooperate in taking back their own citizens won’t receive development aid and will have economic warfare by all means waged against them, whereas cooperation will earn support. Development aid will also be made conditional on promoting women’s rights, women’s education and feminism (goal of that is of course to bring the birth rates down).
    - Deportation drives against illegal immigrants. Zero tolerance policies against petty crime (e.g. ALL forms of drug dealing, even marihuana).
    - Make it impossible for migrants to send remittances back home (close down all those Western Union offices or at least strictly monitor/restrict transactions).

    I think those measures wouldn’t even be that brutal and would do a lot to solve the problem.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @songbird
  182. Bliss says:
    @AaronB

    What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God. But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world

    Firstly, don’t blame secularism which simply means separation of Church and State. Secularism is not anti-spirituality per se. Your issue is with atheism-materialism….which is tolerated under secularism along with all religions and metaphysical ideologies.

    Secondly, western religion from barbarian to greco-roman to christian has never believed in “union with God”. That is Indian (non-vedic) spirituality. So why would the idea of making “that claim” even occur to a western conservative? Whatever made you think that going back to the pre-Enlightenment era, when pantheists were burned at the stake, would result in a society that is “well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God”. That doesn’t make any sense.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  183. @Polish Perspective

    “Though this is changing in some Western European countries. 20% of German new-borns are of mixed European parentage. This caused some furore a few years ago as “40% of German newborns have migrant background” and the right-wing was in up arms. Few actually bothered to check the actual data. When you did, you noticed that half of those 40% were inter-Europeans offspring. German_reader is a mix of British and German if I am not mistaken. So this is already increasingly a reality in Europe and groups like NMR are cognisant of that. As more and more sub-Saharan and MENA peoples move into Europe, I suspect we will see greater a strengthening of a Pan-European identity slowly emerge, though for reasons which the EU will not be pleased about.”

    This may be one of the few things I agree with Richard Spencer on. He is not very clear on it(just like he is not on most subjects) but I believe the reason he is against Brexit is because he thinks May is going to replace all if the White immigrants from the rest of Europe with non whites from the “commonwealth”. I honestly believe the reason Blair increased non European immigration to the UK was because he was afraid of eastern EU immigration making the UK “More White”.

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
  184. @AaronB

    You know what would have really helped the Nazi’s out? If they would have considered Jews honorary Aryans!

    • Replies: @AaronB
  185. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    You’re forgetting the great Christian mystics, orthodox Christianity as a whole, and the Greek mystical tradition as a whole. All were based on increasing unity with god. Only Protestantism made a decisive break with this and there were even protestant mystics who were great. Vedic traditions are not radically discontinuous with western traditions.

    I won’t deny that traditional societies often went wrong and did terrible things like burning witches and the like. There is unfortunately no safety for us humans. But the Enlightenment robbed life of its value.

    Separation of church and state happened because things like morality ceased being important. It was an attempt to eliminate the need to use judgement and discernment. We could just banish all these questions and focus on getting rich and powerful.

    But we are a community. We cannot banish morality from the public realm. It is an illusion to think we can just choose for ourselves. We end up just surrendering the field to the worst people. We are influenced in a thousand ways by others. We are embedded in a web.

    If we seperatee church and state the moral people lose spirit and the bad people dominate. The task is to avoid the crazy excesses of religion but make morality front and center in our public life. Its hard and well often fail. Crazy excesses will happen.

    The enlightenment was an attempt at a panacea. It ended up killing the patient.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  186. utu says:
    @Hyperborean

    Because I thought your were sincere and thoughtful. OK, you would not be shot. Just assigned to peeling potatoes in the kitchen for the internees.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  187. JackOH says:

    Just had time for a quick eye-roll. The character descriptions had me thinking of the Heartland vs. Cosmopolis distinction I’d read years ago.

    Left and Right, Democrats and Republicans, seem to me both slobs who cover for their corporate masters. But the Left has therapeutic, stroking rhetoric and redistribution in its favor. Putting money in people’s pockets covers a multitude of sins. What does the Right have to offer? Order, tradition, or, how ’bout those Republican faves, market-based solutions and the opportunity society?

    A program that combines redistribution with a philosophy of national revival could be a winner except it puts you in Herr Hitler’s briar patch.

    • Replies: @utu
  188. AaronB says:
    @Anarcho-Supremacist

    If they would have developed the concept of the Aryan as a spiritual quality and not just a biological materialistic one, that would have helped.

    In Buddhism the word Aryan means merely noble – any human is capable of it.

    Because the concept of the Aryan was biological and Darwinist, German defeat was considered final. They were hampered by their materialism.

    • Replies: @Anarcho-Supremacist
  189. Bliss says:
    @AaronB

    I don’t support hatred and conquest because I believe in the underlying spiritual unity of mankind – really of all phenomena including animals. I think Ahimsa is basically correct as a principle. We are all One. All great spiritual teachers without exception have had this insight.

    Agreed.

    Nazism was about loving Germans yes – but in the corrupted form of group love where others are hated. Plus, it had no options for others to join the master race, unlike Islam, and had zero ethical standards for treating out group members. Much lower than Islam.

    True dat. Nazism is much lower than Islam.

    But Islam still has hate towards those who don’t want to be part of their group. And there are many good reasons for not wanting to join Islam, or for wanting to leave it if you were born into it.

    In true spirituality there is no outgroup.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  190. @utu

    Well, the aim should not just be to stop immigration it should also be to reverse it.

    While you and German Reader’s proposals seem good in terms of preventing further immigration I don’t see how it will solve the problem of the people who are already here.

    Besides, potatoes taste worse when they are peeled.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @utu
  191. @AaronB

    “If they would have developed the concept of the Aryan as a spiritual quality and not just a biological materialistic one, that would have helped.”

    That just sounds like a way to make Nazi’s even gayer then they already were.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  192. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    In true spirituality there is no outgroup

    That’s the highest level. Only for saints. For most humans loving their group while having ethical standards for out group members is a difficult enough ideal to attain. You must start somewhere.

    But we are all on the Path. Eventually we will all become Buddhas and saints!

  193. AaronB says:
    @Anarcho-Supremacist

    Lol, right, Nazis who thought of Aryans as a spiritual thing wouldn’t quite be Nazis would they!

    • Replies: @Anarcho-Supremacist
  194. @AaronB

    You glossed over my first point( it was half joke/half being serious), making Jews honorary Aryans. Consider all the retarded cases of “honorary Aryans” and it does not seam that stupid.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  195. @Hyperborean

    While you and German Reader’s proposals seems good in terms of preventing further immigration I don’t see how it will solve the problem of the people who are already here.

    Well, obviously I’m focused mostly on the German situation, and the one issue that is absolutely non-negotiable for me is stopping Merkel’s open borders policy and getting rid of as many of the invaders of the last few years as possible. Since these people aren’t citizens and in many cases have, at least in theory, only been granted temporary protection anyway, a government that really wants to get rid of them would find ways of making them leave.
    As for the longer-established immigrants Germany’s situation wasn’t that bad before 2014/15, if not great. European immigrants (apart from gypsies whose activities need to be restricted) don’t bother me much anyway. The Turks are kind of a problem of course, but by themselves a tolerable one that could be managed by measures like restrictions on Islamic activitiy (ban influence of Turkey’s ministry of religious affairs, monitor mosques and close them down if they promote Islamism or Turkish chauvinism), adjustments of welfare policies, getting Turkish women to join the workforce etc. Those who want a more Islamic lifestyle should be encouraged (and maybe financially aided) to remigrate back to Turkey.
    There are certain problematic minorities like criminal Lebanese clans that probably deserve special attention because of their criminal nature. One could take measures like reversing burden of proof for their financial assets, so they can be seized if they can’t prove the legitimate origin. It would also be good if one found ways to strip them of their citizenship, but unfortunately that is very difficult in Germany because of the Nazi past.
    As for Britain and France with their huge Arab, African and Pakistani populations…well, no idea, I guess they’re truly f***ed.

  196. AaronB says:
    @Anarcho-Supremacist

    Well, its my belief that all humans should be honorary Aryans :)

    Potentially, of course.

    • Replies: @Anarcho-Supremacist
  197. @AaronB

    ahahahahahaahahhahahah

    I want everyone to be dishonorary non-Aryans! ahahahahh lol

  198. @German_reader

    Too bad German “reunification” happened. If East Germany would have stayed independent it probably would have had less “immigrants” then it does today.

    • Replies: @songbird
  199. Bliss says:
    @AaronB

    You’re forgetting the great Christian mystics, orthodox Christianity as a whole, and the Greek mystical tradition as a whole. All were based on increasing unity with god.

    The dogma of Christianity cannot be reconciled with mysticism. The Church Fathers considered Gnosticism their arch enemy and it was suppressed. Centuries later the Catholic Church brutally wiped out the Cathars of France in a Crusade . It burned pantheists alive as in the case of Giordano Bruno. Whatever mysticism existed in the West did so in spite of the religion not because of it. Why on earth would you want to go back that era?

    That was also the era of slavery and serfdom. Serfdom in Europe was worst under the Orthodox Christianity of Russia. That was no golden age.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
    , @AaronB
  200. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    Its true. Christianity in the west started going wrong at an early date. We are all serfs now, btw, just even worse because we have no spirituality.

    I do not want to go back to things exactly as they were. There is no golden age on earth. That’s the mistake of the Left.

    But religion is true, and we need it. We will make mistakes. There will be hellish periods. But at least we will be on the Path. Enlightenment philosophies birthed many monsters, Nazism and Communism. It’s hardly immune.

    • Replies: @Anarcho-Supremacist
  201. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    You can keep on pointing out the deficiencies of religion and traditional societies ad nauseum – I will agree with you.

    There is no paradise on earth. We should go back to nothing. We should move forward.

    With religion there are countless possibilities for mistakes – with secular modernity there is merely emptiness and death.

    Pointing out the many ways religion and tradition can go wrong does not change the fact that with secular modernity there is mete nothingness.

  202. @AaronB

    As long as you start new denominations. The Catholic church lately in Ireland has been inadvertently(with papa Francisco it may not be so inadvertent?) to undermine Christianity in Ireland its pathetic. The abortion referendum would have had a million times better chance of failing had the Church supported repealing the 8th. They would be doing their cause much batter had they just shut the Fuck up.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  203. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    I think you have this idea that I’m pointing out tradition and religion as this utopia that can’t go wrong. I’m not.

    I’m just saying its on the Path to ultimate perfection whereas secular modernity is not even on the Path. Its emptiness.

  204. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AaronB

    For the past 50 years the Right hasn’t offered anything inspiring. The very word conservative is lame.

    That’s a big part of it. When the only thing the Right seems to really care about is tax cuts for rich people it’s hardly surprising that the Right is universally despised. The Swine Right is a pretty apt description. The Right seems to stand for a combination of greed and cowardice.

    The alt-right doesn’t appear to have come up with anything inspiring either.

    As for nationalism, it should be possible to make nationalism sexy and cool but so far we haven’t managed it. If you can’t make an ideology sexy and cool you can pretty much forget about winning over young people. We need to find a way to make nationalism more attractive than American pop culture.

    It should be possible. Back in the 60s and 70s anti-Americanism was part of the young sexy hip counter-culture thing. We need to make anti-Americanism fashionable again.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @songbird
  205. AaronB says:
    @dfordoom

    I agree with that. But I think sexy and cool is euphemism for idealism.

    Anti-Americanism should be easy to connect to idealism, because America stands so much for materialism and tax cuts for the rich and similar uninspiring things.

    I think we yearn for idealism but the Right gives us low crime and positive economic indicators.

  206. @German_reader

    As for Britain and France with their huge Arab, African and Pakistani populations…well, no idea, I guess they’re truly f***ed.

    A large part of my childhood was spent growing up in a Swedish banlieue dominated by Muslim immigrants who’s only redeeming quality was that it also had a few Eastern European and Assyrian immigrants as well.

    Given how the area I lived in was even a comparatively nice ghetto and yet how absolutely miserable it felt to live there, I’ve come to the conclusion that if the situation is really awful it is acceptable for the solution to be rather harsh.

  207. AaronB says:
    @Anarcho-Supremacist

    The Catholic church is sadly defunct. A spent force.

    • Replies: @Anarcho-Supremacist
  208. @AaronB

    We would be better off if that were the case. It still is around and its dominated by inadvertent anti Christians(The Irish Bishops who don’t understand just how hated they are) and Crypto anti-Christians(Papa Fransisco is most probably waiting until he has a majority of the cardinals appointed to call his Lefty Vatican III).

  209. utu says:
    @Hyperborean

    It has to be stopped first. Reversal is not impossible but any attempt would lead to genocide. Nobody has stomach for it and there would be unfathomable yet consequences.

  210. utu says:
    @JackOH

    A program that combines redistribution with a philosophy of national revival could be a winner except it puts you in Herr Hitler’s briar patch.

    Nothing wrong with it. It is possible that this was the true reason for Hitler’s early vilification. Must redistribution and national revival lead to some kind of genocide?

    • Replies: @JackOH
  211. @Dmitry

    However, there’s the case of useless skepticism. Some commenters were for example questioning the identity of Thorfinsson, while it’s since been half corroborated by Karlin. Now Thorfinsson’s identity was irrelevant to the content of his comments. Why waste skepticism on it? The easy thing is to just discount the personal anecdotes regardless.

    You have to remember that it’s easy to mix things up yet remember with seeming clarity. So for example the train station could be mixed up in his mind with another train station. Now there’s a lesson here about the usefulness of personal anecdotes: he might be giving false information about his visit even if he was there and he didn’t consciously try to lie or distort even the smallest detail.

    Some of the reasons for skepticism are good in any individual case, but you have to remember that commenters here are a small self-selected group. I know for sure that some very influential people do frequent comment boards. Why not scions of seemingly rich families? (Where at age 17 you are already traveling around the world.)

    Regarding connecting with the Ethiopians. I had similar experiences in Western Europe. I couldn’t speak the local language, and the locals acted disdainfully. The nonwhite immigrants were the most understanding about my situation. There was a connection of both of us being marginalized, to use cultural Marxist terminology. And I look pretty Western European.

    Or the Mizrahi Jews being colorists towards other Mizrahi looking people. What’s incredible in this story? I don’t know if it’s true or not, but Mizrahi Jews are probably sensible people who understand that terrorists will likely look like, well, Arabs, and so they will stop Arab looking people more. Even if this means harassing fellow Mizrahi Jews. In Northern Ireland redheaded policemen or soldiers were probably more likely to stop and harass identical looking redheads than the odd Japanese tourist or Indian immigrant.

    It’s interesting that you also seem to have at least upper middle class parents who sent you to language courses to places like London. You can speak a multitude of languages. You keep traveling around the world and apparently work in well-paying jobs in maybe Western Europe. It seems you might even be changing your residency and hence jobs frequently, or at least you’re getting lots of vacations. With a Russian passport. Or maybe you’re a businessman. (Though you don’t come across as one.)

    Some of your stories seemed strange (the girl whose scalp got sunburnt under the hair – I thought sure it must be a misunderstanding), but I largely believe your identity of being a high income Russian albino with a Jewish grandpa and a love of Israel and Russia. (For both countries you have argued in a way which showed emotional attachment. Not that you tried to hide it.) At least until contrary evidence comes to light.

    Why waste my energies on unduly skepticism? The proper thing to do is to simply discount all personal anecdotes. People often distort these even to themselves without consciously lying.

    At the end of the day it’s irrelevant who’s making the comments, unless your goal is to dox someone.

    The experience I have from Hungarian forums is that people are usually what they say they are. I remember one guy claiming to be a catholic priest was almost conclusively (but still without absolute certainty) shown to be not a catholic priest. Probably it happens occasionally. But it’s difficult.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  212. @German_reader

    I think Bliss is an African American woman. She’s nice, but an unironic we wuz kangz believer. Maybe she will tell.

  213. @utu

    Having the vague knowledge that your ancestors were of a different ethnicity will make you more susceptible to open borders ideas. Even if the difference was small.

    • Agree: utu
  214. Pericles says:
    @utu

    Well said.

    You have a free will and you can join us as a human being. It is up to you.

    Clarification: Join us conceptually, while residing on another continent.

  215. Pericles says:
    @Hyperborean

    It all seems too passive-aggressive though. Just deport them all, starting now. This crazy do-gooder project has abjectly failed, time to shut it down.

    (Give the rapists, murderers and other criminal scum helicopter rides.)

    • Replies: @Polish Perspective
  216. @Anarcho-Supremacist

    Non-European immigration went up sharply in the early years of Blair being prime minister from 1997 onwards when Labour won power. Eastern European immigration was insignificant until 2004 when Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic etc. joined the EU and the UK imposed no restrictions on their migration unlike Germany.

    There was no scheme to replace the native population. Labour came to power when the economy was doing well, they had promoted themselves as a pro-business party and the business lobby wanted more work permits for overseas workers as they are demanding now. The decision to let in the 2004 entrants was done to show the UK was a good European citizen, the same motivating Blair to push for joining the euro. Germany was still recovering from the unification of East Germany and was not in the mood to accept more workers.

    Since there was a huge flood of European immigration, the business lobby did not cause much of a fuss when the Tories brought in restrictions on non-EU migration in 2012.

    • Replies: @DFH
  217. JackOH says:
    @utu

    utu, Anatoly and a few others on this site speak frankly of “human capital”, the definition of which seems self-evident to me, and Arpad’s character sketches are persuasive enough. Tuesday evening I listened to my Congressman reciting Democrat talking points from the New Deal onward in front of a nominally well-educated audience that offered no challenge at all to him.

    Long story short: I wonder if mimesis can be regarded as a political “philosophy” sufficient in its own right to “capture” 99% of the electorate and most opinion leaders, such as academics and journalists. People who don’t know they’re being played, people who are resigned to being played, people who are okay with being played because they benefit from the game. If you have the “human capital” to examine the game du jour, you’re in a pretty lonely place in today’s America.

    Anyway, a poor bastard who wants to combine redistribution with national reinvigoration will likely mimic Herr Hitler, and the analytic content of his proposals will be instantly deep-sixed, no matter their merit. (Caveat: I’m writing early in the morning, so I may have not connected my dots too well.) So, in my opinion at least, we’re stuck with Left and Right as “cover vocabularies” for kleptocracy and rule by corporate interests.

  218. Dmitry says:

    and a love of Israel and

    I have in total months of experience in Israel – actual living inside Israel (mainly from several years ago).

    Why waste my energies on unduly skepticism? The proper thing to do is to simply discount all personal anecdotes. People often distort these even to themselves without consciously lying.

    It was an imaginary unicorn story, which you know (i.e. I know) if you know the place personally (which I do), and his follow up replies show it more (I won’t go through it).

    Sure, he’s reading last week Max Blumenthal book and invented a narrative to fit, but which is literally impossible. E.g. the security guard story (the same as if I told you I got into Hungary without a passport).

    Or the receiving better treatment than Mizrahi stuff – it’s the same as if I told you that as a white/European person, you will be mistreated by staff in Hungary (only someone who doesn’t know Hungary is mostly white/European, could make up such story).

    I wasn’t trying to bully him or anything – I’m sure he is otherwise a good contributor, I would buy him a drink for his other comments. Just correct a crazy fake story.

    The reason I first arrived on Unz was searching about Israel, so I feel special pull to correct accuracy particularly on this theme (on Israel subjects).

    Actually I don’t like ‘acting as a jerk’,

    You keep traveling around the world and apparently work in well-paying jobs in maybe Western Europe. It seems you might even be changing your residency and hence jobs frequently, or at least you’re getting lots of vacations. With a Russian passport. Or maybe you’re a businessman.

    My income isn’t great. I like travel, but in the most cheap way. (I know people that travel far more than me – even my brother, my dad).

    I won’t say where I work, because I already stupidly put my name.

    Some of your stories seemed strange (the girl whose scalp got sunburnt under the hair – I thought sure it must be a misunderstanding),

    Lol. I know that this girl has burnt her scalp. Just after sitting outside having a coffee in a Russian summer. She is also not blonde – hair is light brown.

    I think we were talking about your supernatural resistance to the sun. And I ironically was on holiday in Israel at the time of the discussion.

    At the end of the day it’s irrelevant who’s making the comments, unless your goal is to dox someone.

    Sure, I agree totally. This story about Israel was the first time for me. Note I found Unz because I was searching for stories or information about this particular subject – Israel.

    Obviously now I’m happy I found the most interesting people on the internet for procrastinating with.

    By the way, if he got expelled at the airport, or had been beaten up by the Israeli hooligans (if Jews had chased him down and kicked him for being Polish, while shouting “this is Jewish country!- go back to Poland”), or fallen into a river full of sewage outside Tel Aviv, etc. It’s completely possible. I have heard some very strange travel stories, which are true.

    But the particular alignment of things are impossible to happen, I just could not avoid pointing it.

  219. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    Oops I wrote the reply above this one to you.

  220. Mitleser says:

    Speaking of human capital and religion…

    We investigate the extent to which the pronatalism of religions impedes growth via the fertility/education channel. Using Southeast Asian censuses, we show empirically that being Catholic, Buddhist, or Muslim significantly raises fertility, especially for couples with intermediate to high education levels. With these estimates, we identify the parameters of a structural model. Catholicism is strongly pro‐child (increasing total spending on children), followed by Buddhism, whereas Islam is more pro‐birth (redirecting spending from quality to quantity). Pro‐child religions depress growth in its early stages by lowering savings and labor supply. In the later stages of growth, pro‐birth religions impede human capital accumulation.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/iere.12291?campaign=woletoc&

  221. @Dmitry

    Note I found Unz because I was searching for stories or information about this particular subject – Israel.

    What exactly were you looking for?

    I found Unz because I followed Steve Sailer ::cough:: faggot ::cough:: over here from his old site. Now I don’t even read his articles.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @songbird
  222. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    He thinks of the US as a temporarily uppity British colony, I think.

    • Replies: @DFH
  223. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    “faith in God” etc. has zero appeal as a political slogan

    That’s probably true in the modern West. And, honestly, AaronB’s “solutions” are pretty silly. But “women’s freedom of movement” is a pretty stupid slogan too. “Love is stronger than hate” is trite but true politically– if you want to preserve Europe as an entity, or its component nations, you are going to have to find something positive about it, or them. Historically that’s been through their place in Christendom. If that’s out, you’re going to have to find something else, and fast.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  224. Sean says:

    I think popular understanding of nationalism is overrated. Navel contemplating theoreticians always think what they are good at is the key: ideology is the key. The view that immigration restriction is inherently racist ((dubbed “alt.liberalism” by John Gray) is as he says held by an elite only really in control of universities. Alt.liberalism is a threat to the nation state and so is economic globalism of their shadowy overlords in the institutions of hyper-capitalism elite. A reaction will well up from the hidden nation state. Emergent competence without comprehension Hence Trump, for he rose up from nowhere to put Russia on the back burner and turn tyo the pressing matter of defending the world’s greatest nation state against its own elites’ lust to dilute and diminish America/ Western power over-against China in the relative sense, which is the only one that matters .

    On the other hand a small country like Croatia, not just its elites, but the totality of national sentiment, has to work within certain limitation and tack according to what seems to be prevailing . Hence Ireland bails out the bankers in 2008 at considerable cost to its own population, then elects a half Indian gay PM with an Indian and then overturns its own constitutional amendment on the right to life of the unborn by referendum to pass a law for abortion on demand up to twelve weeks (far more liberal on paper than UK), and UK equivalent up to 24 weeks.

    Italy, always the most politically conservative and financially unstable) is too big to be allowed to be bailed out and thus too bit to be cowed, and its people know it. Germany offered debt forgiveness to Italy if it would take unlimited numbers of immigrants and of course the Italians as is their custom are have taken EU for a ride, then refused to be cannon fodder. The EU technocrats,d the French and the Italian establishment fear the new government in Italy will repudiate the debts owed to French banks.

  225. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    What’s interesting is Bliss’s Afrocentric view of history combined with a very European and Western moral outlook.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  226. Sean says:
    @Bliss

    Love is the other side of the same coin as hate. If you love your family you set up a barrier against non relatives. Rationalism-Secularism-Egalitarianism is similar to a religion inasmuch unrelated people are bound together over-against the others (who in self defence are also bound in common fate group by beliefs that enemies do not share). Race straddles those barriers of belief, and because most wars are levied on nearby countries of the same race, governments hate racism. Doesn’t mean racism is true though.

  227. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    He thinks he doesn’t have to find any positive idea. He thinks people are mostly rational and motivated by practical concerns and when they discover the negative consequences of immigration it’ll stop.

    It’s basically the Enlightenment idea of man as practical and rational, opposed to my Romantic idea of man as idealistic and emotional.

    Its difficult to understand how anyone can believe in the Enlightenment idea of man. But that is why the Right lost. It was based on Enlightenment Man, Economic Man.

    The Right will continue to lose for this reason.

  228. DFH says:
    @Ali Choudhury

    There was no scheme to replace the native population

    Wow, a lying paki, what a shock

    Writing in the Evening Standard, Mr Neather [Blair's aide] revealed the ‘major shift’ in immigration policy came after the publication of a policy paper from the Performance and Innovation Unit, a Downing Street think tank based in the Cabinet Office.
    The published version promoted the labour-market case for immigration but Mr Neather said unpublished versions contained additional reasons.

    ‘Earlier drafts I saw also included a driving political purpose: that mass immigration was the way that the Government was going to make the UK truly multicultural.

    ‘I remember coming away from some discussions with the clear sense that the policy was intended – even if this wasn’t its main purpose – to rub the Right’s nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date.’ The ‘deliberate policy’, from late 2000 until ‘at least February last year’, when the new points-based system was introduced, was to open up the UK to mass migration, he said.

    Mr Neather defended the policy, saying mass immigration has ‘enriched’ Britain and made London a more attractive and cosmopolitan place.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222613/Labour-let-migrants-engineer-multicultural-UK.html

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Ali Choudhury
  229. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    Mr Neather defended the policy

    Wow, a British suck-up, what a shock.

    We can do this all day, but there are better ways to spend a day.

    • Replies: @DFH
  230. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    I was actually struck by the exact same thing!

    He’s very smart, and unfortunately has adopted some of the worst aspects of the modern Western mindset while being Afrocentric.

  231. On the other hand, people on the Centre Right tend to do things rather than meditate on the state of the world from an ivory tower. Capture of the political system by the left/Peronists has its limits because the doers on the right stop doing. Argentina, Venezuela, South Africa, Congress India, Maoist China come to mind.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  232. DFH says:
    @Anon

    What does this comment mean

    • Replies: @Anon
  233. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    I’m not that into metalinguistics.

  234. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    Something about the illegal immigration and border fence topics was being discussed here.

    I prefer the Karlin blog to the Sailer blog also. Sailer blog is like reading an unusual New York Times writer (purged for having more sensible views than they, but using still the same technology and writing style). I also could only read for a few weeks. (I used to always read the New York Times site a couple of years ago and there is a similarity.)

    Together, Karlin, secret.travel and Varlamov were the only remaining blogs I was still enjoying in the last few months.

    What do you think about this Marginal Revolution blog which is becoming fashionable?
    Text looks interesting, but they need a lot more pictures

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  235. @Dmitry

    Text looks interesting, but they need a lot more pictures

    Look who’s talking. Your videos need more hot Arab Israeli girls.

    I’m not sure I’ve ever read Marginal Revolution, although I’m familiar with the name.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  236. Tyrion 2 says:

    Great post. Very interesting. It’s been clear to me for some time that this is all true and that the number of people who need to be brought along is very small and then that will drive the long-term momentum. Sharp political shocks tend to be forgotten all too quickly.

    This makes it all the more important to always speak in good faith, to be considered and to take on board all of the Aristotelian intellectual virtues. Smart people can tell and will stop listening very quickly otherwise.

    Then again, there are lots of ‘swine’ people out there and they can be quite effective so if you offer them nothing, they may stop you getting anything.

  237. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    Marginal Revolution wrote the post on Ethiopia that Karlin linked to, but he does not include any picture.

    Anyway – mentioning macos reminds of this topic with the imaginary visits to Israel.

    He has a lot thousands of photos about how dirty the Arab areas are in Israel. As some commentators note though, this photo method could be easily abused for propaganda or to push your agenda.

    https://macos.livejournal.com/1636826.html

  238. @Daniel Chieh

    Have seen these free roaming horses in Russia, in Portugal (just outside our Airbnb), and literally every single ride we take in Romania. I do think this is considerably rarer in the US, where the people who own horses tend to be rich and house them in stables.

    • Replies: @iffen
  239. @Philip Owen

    I would not say its only “Centre Right”, but it is accurate that if a solution isn’t working at minimum even to create a cohesive organization of a rather minimal size, assuming that it will work en masse over a larger society is pretty fantastic.

  240. m___ says:

    The Left holds a monopoly on respectable intellectual positions partially because of the miserable state of the Right;

    Society is dictated by the miserable state of our elites, not by respectable A-N-D intellectual positions, the elites do well in translating rational ideas(elite interests, no-one else’s) into emotional acceptance to the bulk of their societies. The Jew methodology is the better peddler in the US(media-academics-administrators).

    The elites, holding on leash the dog of the middle classes, are far below the threshold of coming up with better rational. The difference between ruling on a pile of shit held higher then steering out of the gutter is signature ‘smart”. So as to Left and Right dynamics, in the sense of long term progress, sustainability, shouldn’t matter at all. Our elites would grapple the situation to lock-down, using Left or Right indifferently.

    Historical evidence over centuries shows only successful opportunism detached from intellectual quality. In all groups, political, religious, ethnic.

  241. @Pericles

    I sort of agree. I don’t really buy the “we’ll take our country back over half a century”. Most white people are too nice for their own good and would allow themselves to be emotionally manipulated. At the same time, doing it all very quickly will likely lead to a lot of unnecessary blood being spilt, or at the very least a lot of pain and suffering that could have otherwise been avoided. It’s not an easy balance but doing nothing will lead to a certain outcome: our üntergang.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  242. @Dmitry

    particular alignment of things are impossible to happen

    You’re demented.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @utu
  243. Pericles says:
    @Polish Perspective

    They’ve already caused us a lot of pain and suffering so don’t worry if it evens out a bit.

    “The free ride is over,” League leader Matteo Salvini, Italy’s new interior minister, warned migrants at a rally in northern Italy. “It’s time to pack your bags.”

    https://apnews.com/2c3771ee21c045c3ac87c1d6369f89fc/New-Italian-govt-vows-to-create-jobs,-deport-migrants

    All that needs to be said, really. Rip the band aid off.

  244. iffen says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I do think this is considerably rarer in the US,

    Recent immigrants from south of the border sometimes think of the expansive lawns of their neighbors as “open range.” Taking their perspective, it does seem to be a terrible waste of grazing land.

  245. @DFH

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/oct/26/labour-immigration-plot-andrew-neather

    A former Labour adviser at the centre of claims that the government secretly encouraged mass immigration to turn Britain into a “truly multicultural society” and undermine the Tories today made clear “there was no such plot”.

    The shadow home secretary, Chris Grayling, challenged ministers in the Commons today over remarks by Andrew Neather, a former speechwriter to Tony Blair and special adviser to Barbara Roche when she was immigration minister.

    But Neather, now comment editor of the London Evening Standard, said an article he wrote in the aftermath of the television appearance of the BNP leader, Nick Griffin, had been twisted out of all recognition.

    “There was no plot,” said Neather. He pinpointed a shift in immigration policy in 2001, when he wrote a speech for Roche outlining changes to make it easier for skilled workers to come to the UK. The speech followed a sensitive report on migration from the Downing Street performance and innovation unit.

    “Multiculturalism was not the primary point of the report or the speech. The main goal was to allow in more migrant workers at a point when – hard as it is to imagine now – the booming economy was running up against skills shortages,” Neather wrote in the Standard.

    He admitted he had a sense from several discussions at the time that there was a subsidiary purpose of boosting diversity and undermining the right’s opposition to multiculturalism, but Neather insisted it was not the main point at issue.

    “Somehow this has become distorted by excitable rightwing newspaper columnists into being a ‘plot’ to make Britain multicultural. There was no plot. I’ve worked closely with Ms Roche and Jack Straw and they are both decent, honourable people who I respect … What’s more both were robust on immigration when they needed to be. Straw had driven through a tough Immigration and Asylum Act in 1999 and Roche had braved particularly cruel flak from the left over asylum seekers.”

    • Replies: @Matra
    , @reiner Tor
    , @songbird
  246. Tulip says:

    Good grief, all we need is a good drug resistant strain of syphilis, and the sexual revolution is over.

  247. Matra says:
    @Ali Choudhury

    I always believe the Grauniad. It’s especially honest on immigration.

  248. Anatoly

    I’ll take a stab at this one:

    The Native Born White American Men who laid down- built-designed the scientific-technological infrastructure of America had views about nonwhites and the racial demographics of the America that can only be described as Alt Right…This was the norm…

    I was reading about Charles Sanders Pierce…His father….. a mathematics Professor at Harvard…..was an open hard-core racist. Not that this bothers me in the least for I am a racist…no more-no less of a hard-core than the majority nonwhite Democratic Party Voting Bloc…My preference is a different one:NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN….

    Your comments are lacking context…that is to say, the proper topos….But your comments really do go to the heart of the demographic displacement issue….More latter…

  249. DFH says:
    @Anon

    I think that America is the greatest creation of the British people, which is why it pains me to see it ruined.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  250. Dmitry says:
    @Polish Perspective

    We both know you invented everything. I don’t know or care why you did it – I just point out some facts.

  251. @Ali Choudhury

    A former Labour adviser at the centre of claims that the government secretly encouraged mass immigration to turn Britain into a “truly multicultural society” and undermine the Tories today made clear “there was no such plot”.

    He would say that, wouldn’t he?

  252. Dmitry says:
    @DFH

    “I think that… the greatest creation of the British people”

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @songbird
    , @AaronB
  253. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    I have to agree about Earl Grey. Not a fan of Twinings though.

  254. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Demented might be too strong. His level of idealized loyalty to Israel is infantile at least on the surface. That’s why he comes across – as somebody else indicated already, as an affable hasbara not as your typical rabid Zionist. He lashed out at you accusing you of lying and confabulation for a simple reason that you crossed unwritten rule of this blog and wrote negatively about Israel in regards to Palestian-Isareli conflict when you were referring the book by Blumenthal. Palestinians in the universe of the New Right do not really exits or not supposed to. They are non-people. Only Israel exists as an exemplar of successful ethno-state from which the New Right should take lessons only. The New Right by the grace of Israel and with the blessings by Zionist Jews can engage in Islamophobia which cleverly has replaced the anti-Semitism of the Old Right. The New Right blogs like this one will be patrolled by various activists to keep people from going astray from the permitted narrative, which is that Israel is über alles. Being concerned with the fate of Palestinians is stigmatized as something that only misguided SJWs could engage in while people of the right truly know which things are good for people and certainly looking kindly at Palestinians is not one of these things. My hypothesis is that Dmitry here as a self-appointed keeper of the permitted narrative decided to bring you down by eroding your reputation with accusation of confabulations and lies. As almost always in cases of accusations there is an element of projection. It is him who is lying that he knows how various security checkpoints in Israel operate and claiming that they would never let anybody pass regardless of their looks and it is him who is unreasonably claiming that your description, which was a total of two or three sentences, of airport and railway station was inaccurate.

    OT: Israel Shamir has posted very interesting article about Jewish demands for restitution from Poland. Could you comment about it? I was shocked by the Poland Hate Fest in comments from chiefly Russian, I guess, commenters. Actually Shamir, the unreformed Stalinist, is partly responsible for it by few paragraphs he wrote about unforgivable sins Poland committed against Russia.

  255. @utu

    Palestinians in the universe of the New Right do not really exits or not supposed to.

    Yes you’ve got it! Way to go! And to think I had considered you a lost cause.

    They are non-people.

    Wow! I’ve made more progress with you than I had realized.

    How are the Canaanites doing these days? Palestinians are on borrowed time and you know it. We don’t even spend to much time thinking about the Palestinians anymore.

    Now onward to Lebanon! Then Syria. Then Iraq. Then Turkey. Then Iran.

    Basically all the peoples that you love, we are going to take from you. You think you are grieving now, but in truth you don’t know what grief is.

    We will show you.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @AaronB
  256. peterAUS says:

    Re the title of the article and less known Balkans affairs:

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/rightwing-party-wins-most-votes-in-slovenia-election-exit-poll-shows-36973239.html

    Us, oldies here, could remember how the….things…started in Yugoslavia in late 80s.

    Mr Jansa then…and now.

    A couple of guys in little Slovenia vs Yugoslavia, then.
    A couple of guys in little Slovenia vs EU, now.

    Granted, a lot isn’t the same.
    Still, some things are. Important things I’d say. What majority of people there think and feel.

    Curious. What would mr. Arpad Virag think about Jansa? That “Swine Right”? The Right’s Human Capital Problem ?
    Really?

  257. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    In this instance, it is nothing to do with criticizing Israel – you can all you want, like for-the-record who has been there and has some “fun” at the airport.

    You can see my own criticism of Bat Yam which started the topic.

    I just point out that this guy Polish Perspective invented the entire story and has not been there – he knows it and I know it, so there is no reason to pretend.

    If you make up such backwards in every fine details story about my home city, I will know it instantly too by the way – it’s the result of knowing a place.

    Utu I wonder at your cognitive dissonance a little though. You told me some stuff about Zionism is controlling the world, yet now believe story that their train station is shockingly dilapidated at the only international airport and gateway to the country.

    I wonder at the Western mind though, conspiracy theories and non-conspiracy theories both – of believing everything based on your emotions.

    • Replies: @utu
  258. DFH says:
    @utu

    Why should I care about Palestinians?

    • Replies: @utu
  259. peterAUS says:
    @Greasy William

    …Then Turkey…

    You sure about this?

    Makes that list rather long.
    Feels a bit…..ambitious…. I’d say.

    Could make this

    Basically all the peoples that you love, we are going to take from you.

    work other way, too.
    You know, those settlements of yours.

    Just saying…..

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  260. songbird says:
    @Anarcho-Supremacist

    Too bad German “reunification” happened. If East Germany would have stayed independent it probably would have had less “immigrants” then it does today.

    They were bribed. Too bad they didn’t use the spirit of reunification to demand some much-needed political reforms to West Germany, but I guess hindsight is always 20/20.

    I’m a bit more sanguine about Korea, but I hope they don’t make the same mistake.

  261. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    Complete abolition of welfare payments to people who have entered Germany illegally.

    I think at a minimum, you have have to end all the wealth transfer between groups. Ex: no welfare for Turks in Germany – unless the Turks can pay it. IMO, it is absolutely necessary to end the parasitism in order for European demographics to rebound. I think it would also be ultimately good for social cohesion among true Europeans.

    Freedom of association is also necessary.

  262. @peterAUS

    Like I said before, it comes down to whether you believe the Torah or not. And if you don’t believe in the Torah, none of this stuff even matters anyway because at the end of the day the the universe dies of heat death and then nobody gets the Land of Israel.

    But yeah, for sure Turkey has to go.

    Remember that the Arabs having their own countries is a historical anomaly. Traditionally the region has been ruled by the Turks and Iranians.

    Further, we desperately need a military challenge that only Turkey can provide. Aren’t you getting bored of these bombing runs in Syria? And remember how much fun 1973 was? It was the most interesting war since WWII.

    Lebanon first though. We just need to figure out how to get them to start another war. It’s either that or wait until the religious take over via their birth rate, but that will take at least another 30 years and I want war now.

    I hate Lebanon so much that I no longer even care about Iran. They can all become billionaires and live 1000 years each for all I care. Just let me have Lebanon.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @peterAUS
  263. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    I always thought it was funny that Patrick Stewart’s character on Star Trek TNG spoke with a British accent and drank Earl Grey Tea and was supposed to be a Frenchman.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  264. AaronB says:
    @Greasy William

    You are being unkind.

    Utu belongs to a defeated people. I have tried to explain to him the errors in thought and metaphysics that led to his defeat. He could not raise his mind to that level and doubled down on his mistakes.

    It is clear that Jews rule now because they have for the moment a higher metaphysics than whites, but that will not necessarily last. The great evil that undoubtedly exists in the Jewish community today is a familiar stage in the break down of a higher metaphysics into materialism.

    Mocking your defeated enemies is not the way for you Jews to maintain your higher metaphysics. It is a sign of corruption. And you know what your God does to you Jews when you grow arrogant and corrupt.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @peterAUS
  265. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    Lol, certainly a better contender for best British invention than America … :)

  266. utu says:
    @DFH

    Did I suggest anywhere you should?

  267. DFH says:
    @Greasy William

    Lebanon first though. We just need to figure out how to get them to start another war. It’s either that or wait until the religious take over via their birth rate, but that will take at least another 30 years and I want war now

    How did that work out last time?

  268. The Alt Right perspective on Alt Right Human Capital is this:

    Alt Right scientific…engineering…..medical talent is being genocided, and therefore, not developed like it was in the past because of the availability of Asian and Muslim Legal Immigrant Scab Labor….And this Asian and Muslim Scab Labor are active participants in the destruction of centuries of Native Born White American scientific….engineering…. medical expertise…including future generations of Working Class Native Born White American Youth who will never be developed for careers in Science…Engineering….Medicine….It’s a genocidal Race War against THE HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN WORKING CLASS…no doubt about it…

    What I have written above is the precise pitch that Jared Taylor should have been making from day one…instead of endless the-eyes-glaze-over-debates about mind numbing IQ test score psychometrics….

  269. songbird says:
    @Ali Choudhury

    Well, since Tony Blair was Labour, and since non-British people never vote Labour, inviting in hordes of people who genetically don’t vote for Labour must have been done for some higher purpose, and the multiculturalism and social anomie that resulted must have been totally unintended.

    To go off on a tangent across the Atlantic, to New England – that is why so many Somalis were brought to Maine. Purely, economic reasons. Not spite, not deliberately trying to demographically transform one the whitest remaining states for political reasons – but Somali skills and the natural economic growth that warlordism brings.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  270. songbird says:
    @Polish Perspective

    One of the arguments which is always made when changing the law to build casinos is the jobs that they will bring.

  271. songbird says:
    @Greasy William

    I’d say your gaydar is way off. Most likely a short in the system, but if you can make a case, I’d be interested in hearing it.

  272. @songbird

    I didn’t mean he was literally gay. I just don’t like Steve.

    Now the Saker on the other hand, that dude definitely is gay for real.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Jayce
  273. @songbird

    I don’t think he really believes that Sailer is a homo, he’s just pissed about Sailer’s “antisemitism”.
    Remember, Greasy also called Japanese nationalism “gay”, it seems to be an all-purpose slur for him.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @for-the-record
  274. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    If you make up such backwards in every fine details story about my home city, I will know it instantly too by the way – it’s the result of knowing a place.

    Israel is not your home city in which you spent years of living. Israel probably is larger than your home city which is not Moscow, right? Israel is a foreign country to you just like to PP. What he wrote were his impressions from 1-2 week trip. You spent more time than he did but you do not know it as well as your home city. Don’t delude yourself. You can read impressions people had from their vacation in foreign countries and often they are not exactly accurate or might be biased because of limited sampling but it does not mean that people who write them were not on their vacation.

    If PP stated that railway station was “shockingly dilapidated’ it apparently was shockingly dilapidated to him. He may have much higher standards and expectations than you do. He was shocked because he expected to be better. His expectations came from some image that was created in his mind. Perhaps he read blogs by people like yourself who tend to present rosy reality of Israel.

    If he he had experience of not being screened on a check point unlike you it does not mean it is impossible. He suspects that it was because he is tall and blond and people took him to be German there. This sounds like a legitimate profiling any security people do to ease up their workload. If you had experience of being shaken down by them on each possible occasion it might be because you are swarthy and short or because you wore some kind of snickers or sandals or you tried to speak to them in your broken Hebrew that sounded to them like say Palestinian Hebrew or perhaps you run into guys who do not like Russian Jews.

    And what this emphatic statement ‘he knows it and I know it’ you keep repeating suppose to mean? You do not know. At best you think you do and then you pretend that you do. It is also possible that you are a lier. If know that you do not know and only emphatically state that you do know.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  275. Mitleser says:
    @songbird

    JLP was an uprooted Frenchman.
    His brothers was not and grow French vine in France.

    Paris, more important than London was the presidential capital of the Federation

  276. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    It is clear that Jews rule now

    Another issue I’m skeptical of, with the word ‘cucks’ as relevant for the ruling ones – from my own personal experience of areas over-run with illegal immigration like…

    • Replies: @AaronB
  277. songbird says:
    @dfordoom

    I really think that it would be quite easy to challenge Hollywood. Two possible strategies:

    1.) Make movies in Eastern Europe starring only whites. In the credits put “thanks to the (insert national ethnicity) people” where it was filmed. Also, put “a cultural product of Europe (or insert European nation)” Begin by making movies set in the past, like the siege of Vienna, Lepanto, the invasion of Malta, etc. Also, do national mythic figures. Some new stories set in the past. Move to present and then future – only Europeans, in each case. Answer inevitable cries of racism with “We are Europeans, and we have a culture! And we have a future!” Or “We want to show the diverse cultures of Europe, let Hollywood do regular, hum-drum diversity.”

    2.) Or, less ambitious, enter into a partnership with China, to challenge Hollywood. Making movies in China with specific appeal to Europeans.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @dfordoom
    , @dfordoom
    , @Dmitry
  278. songbird says:
    @Greasy William

    Oh, I see! Thanks for the explanation.

  279. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    Jews are in decline, and will soon be unmotivated materialists like whites. They underwent the Enlightenment about a hundred years later than whites, so their connection to a motivating metaphysical view has not broken down to the same extent.

    They also never took the Enlightenment quite so seriously, as it was not their original creation. Asians also never quite took it seriously. No one has been as devastated by the Enlightenment as whites, who alone adopted it as a real metaphysics of life.

    The signs of liberalism you see in Israel are there, but you have to admit the overall picture is far less liberal than in the West.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  280. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    That’s funny, because I’m pissed at Sailer for what I see as his philosemitism!

    The truth is Sailer curiously combines anti-Semitism with blind acceptance of Jewish superiority and an attitude of servility.

    It is quite possibly the most grotesque position to take.

    But this is the kind of character the Right has been producing for a while now.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  281. peterAUS says:
    @Greasy William

    Further, we desperately need a military challenge that only Turkey can provide.

    Well, I guess that, should Erdogan feel like you (the opposite way, that is, of course), his regime simply augmenting Hezbollah would provide enough of a challenge.
    Mix Hezbollah/Iranians/Turks (sounds crazy but possible in that place) could prove….interesting…for IDF ground force in Lebanon.

    Aren’t you getting bored of these bombing runs in Syria?

    Not really if they lead to something else. As is likely.

    And remember how much fun 1973 was? It was the most interesting war since WWII.

    True.
    Good (initial) strategy and effort by Egypt.
    Shitty performance by Syrians which unraveled Egyptian strategy.
    Excellent recovery and exploitation of the above error, with counter, by Israel.

    Personally, I’ve always found that recovery the most important and worth of respect. The reaction, by all the nation and Jews in the world, to Arab’s attack.
    The commitment bordering on self-sacrifice for common good. The cohesion, spirit and the will, there and then.
    Can’t say that most of analysts have spent much time and effort on that element. Tells something.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  282. @AaronB

    But this is the kind of character the Right has been producing for a while now.

    “the Right”? Care to name some other examples apart from Steve Sailer?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  283. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    John Derbyshire. Jordan Peterson.

  284. @AaronB

    Derbyshire could be classified that way, that’s true.
    Jordan Peterson…no idea, I’m not interested in that fad.
    Still, I’m not sure if those two people are representative of “the Right” even in the US, let alone anywhere else.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  285. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    An interesting point.

    “Some would say it’s hubris”.
    “It’s not hubris if I/we succeed”.

    TV show “Rome”. Twice in chat between Caesar and Anthony on two different, important, occasions.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  286. peterAUS says:
    @songbird

    Yup.

    They know what they are doing and will use any means necessary to get what they want.
    Lying is just one of, milder/softer, methods.

  287. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    I haven’t followed politics for quite some time in a serious way. But my general impression is that the Right in America has an attitude of servile admiration towards Jews, although perhaps less antisemitic than Sailer.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  288. @AaronB

    Isn’t Jordan Peterson all about self-improvement with the notion of “cleaning your room?” That seems to argue against a “fated view” on life.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  289. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    Great self confidence isn’t so bad. But when you start mocking your defeated foes, the Higher Powers take note. Its just foolishness.

  290. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    True, but as far as I understand he sees Jewish success as a result of naturally higher IQs which whites will never be able to match.

    I see this kind of fatalism towards Jews among older Anglo white men all the time – its very remarkable.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  291. Is Java script a quasi-Alt Right creation?(as opposed to a pseudo-Alt Right creation).

  292. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    You can read impressions people had from their vacation in foreign countries and often they are not exactly accurate or might be biased because of limited sampling but it does not mean that people who write them were not on their vacation.

    There are things which are open for subjectivity (e.g. I hate this, I love this).

    And then there are things which you can only write when you haven’t actually been there.

    He has multiple of these in each paragraph, so that’s why I knew he imagined the trip up straight away.

    It’s not an issue of disagree with him or wanting to be rude to him (I hope he writes interesting things).

    And in the follow up posts he replied to me when I told him he made it up, everything he wrote was equally backwards but in all the concrete details (i.e. that there is more security in Northern Tel Aviv – no there isn’t, and I know this town a lot), that he lived in Yafo (which – incredibly Arab atmosphere, ancient historic building place – does not match at all original story), etc.

    If PP stated that railway station was “shockingly dilapidated’ it apparently was shockingly dilapidated to him.

    Not really. The trains are more modern than I experience in countries like the UK – it’s one of the constrastive things (the roads even more), where you have something so first world next to something so third-world. And this particular station is clean and new.

    My eyebrows were just raised first at the inverted claims, as with the Nigerian guy earlier. It’s when the fine details are backwards, that the story becomes impossible.

    If he he had experience of not being screened on a check point unlike you it does not mean it is impossible. He suspects that it was because he is tall and blond and people took him to be German there. This sounds like a legitimate profiling any security people do to ease up their workload.

    No, he says Mizrahi Jews are mistreated by staff/security, he was never bag-checked outside the shops, etc (you might not believe this is not impossible, only if you have not been there).

    Again, it’s the same as saying “white/European person are mistreated due to their race by staff in Russia.” You can only claim this if you have not been to Russia, and are unaware that almost people treating you will be white/European persons.

    Only someone who was never in Israel can conceive that. The local Israelis checking you outside shops, serving you, treating you in shops, public transport, (almost all tourist interactions) – will be majority brownish Mizrahi Jews, or – if in the place he was claiming to be living – Arabs.

    He suspects that it was because he is tall and blond and people took him to be German there. This sounds like a legitimate profiling any security people do to ease up their workload. If you had experience of being shaken down by them on each possible occasion it might be because you are swarthy and short or because you wore some kind of snickers or sandals or you tried to speak to them in your broken Hebrew that sounded to them like say Palestinian Hebrew or perhaps you run into guys who do not like Russian Jews.

    I’m North European man as anyone can look – you can sometimes see people show an Israeli ID card where they can see you’re a Jew, or if you’re a soldier, etc, but the bag check is for everyone, just like in an airport.

    Nothing to do with liking or not liking.

    In supermarkets and shopping centers, they check everyone during peak hours. They don’t let someone through, and then the other person not. You know this if you have experience there.

    In North Tel Aviv, there’s less places with security guards by the way (another backwards thing he says).

    On this imaginary trip, he was 17/18 lone male that doesn’t speak Hebrew, so he’s going to get checked by security as much as anyone (if/when he actually visits Israel one day).

    Unfortunately, in general tourists they are going to be checked more than locals. Feel free to test this yourself.

    Story added up not one or two, but dozens of backwards facts though, so becomes impossible.

    He usually posts interesting things so I don’t understand your claim I’m bullying him. I read everyone with interest and then saw immediately it was invented after first couple paragraphs.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @reiner Tor
    , @utu
  293. Jayce says:
    @Greasy William

    Now the Saker on the other hand, that dude definitely is gay for real.

    Well, taking the Saker seriously is a kind of bugchasing. Many have been incurably pozzed.

  294. @AaronB

    Simplicity has its charms and he does have to appease a significant power block that’s very hungry to find reason to be offended. “Bending the knee”, as it might be, is overall an insignificant cost compared to being able to continue to broadcast his overall message.

    What do you think of Taleb? Should Mr. Karlin engage in lifting harder, better and stronger?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  295. utu says:
    @songbird

    YT is full of movies made in Eastern Europe.

    • LOL: songbird
  296. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    You make a good point. Bending the knee is often necessary strategy on the path to ultimate victory. I wonder though if he should just have left the subject alone then. If he is really merely employing subterfuge then as time passes we will know I guess.

    But you are quite correct that an effective cultural revolution must begin by pretending to share some of the assumptions of the culture you seek to undermine, to gain credibility and a hearing. It is often foolishness to merely attack with all guns blazing if you are in a position of weakness. As you gain power, your real agenda can be only gradually revealed.

    Taleb? I haven’t read him in a long while. I used to like him, and he has some really good insights into the nature of reality and the way we perceive it iirc. I’m not crazy about that aspect of his thought summarized by “should Anatoly lift” – although yes, he probably should :)

  297. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    You happen to be right about security checks.

    I am blond and look Northern European. I have been stopped by Israeli security on every single trip.

    Israeli security is very aware of the potential of Arab terrorists to recruit European looking people. Or to trick them and place bombs in their bags without their knowledge. There have been multiple instances of this, and would be an easy weak link to exploit. Even some Arabs can have a European appearance, particularly from Syria and Lebanon, not to mention Turks.

    Its simple common sense. Terrorist activity does not lend itself to the same kind of profiling based on appearance as street crime in NYC, for instance.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  298. @Dmitry

    Again, it’s the same as saying “white/European person are mistreated due to their race by staff in Russia.” You can only claim this if you have not been to Russia, and are unaware that almost people treating you will be white/European persons.

    I don’t think it’s true any longer, but let me give you the example of Soviet occupied late communist Hungary in the second half of the 1980s. There, Soviet tourists were worse treated than Hungarians (probably not by police, though, only in places like restaurants; that was already true in the 1970s), unless they were a high ranking delegation from the CPSU. Western tourists, however, were treated better than local Hungarians, and at the latest by the middle of the 1980s this included the police. The country needed the foreign currency the tourists were bringing (even the police were told that much), and for example in restaurants waiters understood who would be giving the fattest tips (and in German Marks or Austrian Schillings), and those were not the local Hungarian patrons. Hungarian patrons were treated really badly by the Hungarian waiters. Regarding the police, they didn’t fine foreign cars for parking illegally somewhere where all Hungarian cars were fined. In general they were quite lenient to them. West German tourists were speeding and never fined, unlike Hungarians. (Some of this persisted into the 1990s.) Just in case you are wondering, the Hungarian police was manned by Hungarians, not West Germans.

    I can see nothing impossible in someone being treated better than Group A by members of Group A. Why do you think it’s impossible?

    Regarding utu’s point about language. In a Western European country everyone was super polite to me whenever I was speaking English. But trying to speak the local language (I only managed a broken version) made them significantly less polite. A train conductor fined me for something that another conductor before let me off with a warning. (I forgot to stamp the ticket.) Obviously in the first case I was seen as a tourist who made a mistake the first time he took the train, in the second case as an immigrant who should be familiar with the rules. I bet you are speaking Hebrew there. So they might treat you worse.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  299. @AaronB

    I am blond and look Northern European. I have been stopped by Israeli security on every single trip.

    Is it possible that PP didn’t have a bag? While others did? And he mistook it as racial profiling?

    I think that to categorically decide that it’s impossible for him to have been there, we need more evidence than just a few things gotten wrong by him.

    By the way I’m still unconvinced that racial profiling is impossible to ever happen there.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Dmitry
  300. AaronB says:
    @reiner Tor

    Racial profiling definitely happens there.

    And it cuts both ways. I was denied entry to a club that was filled with dark skinned Arab looking Jews – and I strongly suspect because of my appearance. And the truth is the bouncer probably did me a favor.

    Malls have security checkpoints at the entrance that everyone without exception passes through. I’m not so much interested in calling PP a liar as just to comment on the general situation there.

    I will leave this particular feud to Dmitry :)

  301. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    I don’t think it’s true any longer, but let me give you the example of Soviet occupied late communist Hungary in the second half of the 1980s. There, Soviet tourists were worse treated than Hungarians (probably not by police, though, only in places like restaurants; that was already true in the 1970s), unless they were a high ranking delegation from the CPSU. Western tourists, however, were treated better than local Hungarians, and at the latest by the middle of the 1980s this included the police. The country needed the foreign currency the tourists were bringing (even the police were told that much), and for example in restaurants waiters understood who would be giving the fattest tips (and in German Marks or Austrian Schillings), and those were not the local Hungarian patrons. Hungarian patrons were treated really badly by the Hungarian waiters. Regarding the police, they didn’t fine foreign cars for parking illegally somewhere where all Hungarian cars were fined. In general they were quite lenient to them. West German tourists were speeding and never fined, unlike Hungarians. (Some of this persisted into the 1990s.) Just in case you are wondering, the Hungarian police was manned by Hungarians, not West Germans.

    It’s interesting post about Hungarian history in Soviet Union and injustice of Soviet imposition (which I would feel bad for).

    But, again, it’s the opposite of truth about Israel. Mizrahi people will not be mistreated by staff/security (who are mostly Mizrahi), etc, etc.

    If you spend a day in Israel, you will realize how bizarre this imagination was.

    Regarding utu’s point about language. In a Western European country everyone was super polite to me whenever I was speaking English. But trying to speak the local language (I only managed a broken version) made them significantly less polite. A train conductor fined me for something that another conductor before let me off with a warning. (I forgot to stamp the ticket.) Obviously in the first case I was seen as a tourist who made a mistake the first time he took the train, in the second case as an immigrant who should be familiar with the rules. I bet you are speaking Hebrew there. So they might treat you worse.

    Again, it’s interesting observations about travel.

    But it’s the opposite of true for Israel. You’ll know this in five seconds when you come.

    I’ve been in Israel when I couldn’t speak a word, and when I could speak a lot of words. I have been there a lot of times.

    At the security you won’t have a chance to talk, it’s a check of your bags (in any important place with metal detectors). Something that happens to you multiple times a day if you like shopping malls and large shops.

    When you go to anywhere like a train station, this procedure is like airport security (metal detectors).

    -

    As for general attitude overwhelming attitude. Israelis as a whole are unusually nice and friendly if you ask them for any help when they’re not working.

    But at the same time, American style customer service (where staff are working, except waiters) is usually not existent. In the supermarket, person selling (or buying) does not need to say ‘hello’, ‘thank you’, etc.

  302. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    By the way I’m still unconvinced that racial profiling is impossible to ever happen there.

    Yes, if you are Hebrew speaking Israeli people, then people are sometimes showing their ID card (it has some number combination, and also use of Hebrew date of birth, where security can see at a glance if you are Jewish).

    Likewise, if you are a soldier. (The soldiers don’t put their guns through the metal detectors).

    It’s an interesting topic, but of course all an opposite of the original claims.

  303. @peterAUS

    Good (initial) strategy and effort by Egypt.

    It was great, not just good. The Egyptians went beyond what the Israelis, Americans or Soviets thought that they were capable of.

    I don’t know if Sadat was genius, he certainly didn’t come off as one, but he had a truly awesome grasp of the strategic situation and how to play it to Egypt’s advantage:

    -Egypt would never be able to militarily force Israel out of the Sinai as the gap between the two countries militaries would only get worse for Egypt with time

    -Egypt could not force another war of attrition after they had just lost the… War of Attrition, so bleeding Israel out of the Sinai couldn’t work either

    -Therefor Israel had 0 incentive to give the Sinai back and, perhaps more importantly, the US had no incentive to force Israel to do as much

    -Egypt needed to recover it’s national honor after the debacle of 1967

    -Israel had huge manpower problems and could not defend it’s front on the Suez Canal. So use Egypts massive manpower to grab a beachhead on the Suez and then bleed Israel white trying to eject the Egyptian forces. Israel is far and away more sensitive to casualties then any other country in the world, a high casualty war will show the Israeli public that holding on to the Sinai isn’t worth it for them.

    -Use a massive deception campaign to ensure that Israel gets caught off guard and doesn’t have their reserves ready.

    -As the war drags on, use the Arab oil weapon. That combined Soviet intervention will force the US to become engaged in the peace process, leading to an eventual Israeli retreat from the Sinai.

    Brilliant.

    Shitty performance by Syrians which unraveled Egyptian strategy.

    If anything it was the other way around. Sadat lied to Assad. Sadat said he was going halfway through the Sinai and then was going to have the Soviets force a ceasefire, ideally within the first week. The Syrian’s would never have agreed to the offensive otherwise. The Syrian strategy was to overwhelm the vastly out manned Israeli troops on the Golan within 48 hours and then dig in and have the Soviets force a ceasefire before Israel could counter attack. They had no idea Sadat was planning for a war that would last for weeks and that he never intended to advance for his beachheads on the east bank of the Canal.

    Let’s say that the Israeli government hadn’t epically screwed up as bad as they did and called up the reserves in full a day ahead of time, which was really the best they could hope for (unlike their totally ridiculous expectation that they would have at least 3 days notice). The IDF would still have taken a beating on the Golan and the Egyptians still would have gotten their beachheads on the east bank. The IDF would have ended the war faster and with fewer losses but the end result would have been the same: superpower intervention and Egyptian beachheads on the east bank of the Canal, which means that in the absolute worst case scenario from Egypt’s perspective, they still get the Suez Canal back without making any concessions or even negotiating at all with Israel.

    In hindsight, what Israel should have done is just unilaterally redeploy from the Canal, recognizing that the IDF didn’t have the manpower to hold it. But they underestimated the Arabs and overestimated themselves and it ended up costing Israel the entire Sinai peninsula.

    Israel never recovered from the Yom Kippur war. 1974 was the first year in Israeli history that more Jews left the country then entered it. The Israeli peace movement was sparked and would become huge within a decade. Before the war, Moshe Dayan said that peace with the Arabs wasn’t worth anything and that Israel should just hold on to all territories it had, after the war he said the exact opposite and most of the country now agreed with him.

    Sadat would say after the Sinai was returned to Egypt that “Fear is the second skin of every Jew”. He knew what he was talking about.

    of course now things are kinda going the other way. But that’s a whole different post.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  304. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    They also never took the Enlightenment quite so seriously, as it was not their original creation. Asians also never quite took it seriously. No one has been as devastated by the Enlightenment as whites, who alone adopted it as a real metaphysics of life.

    The signs of liberalism you see in Israel are there, but you have to admit the overall picture is far less liberal than in the West.

    Another liberal or ‘cuck’ thing about Israel, is ‘gay culture’ promoted actively on the official level, so that the whole cities take part in the gay events.

    I don’t see the gay culture in Israel, like I saw in San Francisco. But government support to promote gay culture is a distinguishing in Israel.

    My personal view on this is that it is neither positive nor particularly negative.

    This is a culture difference from Russia. (It’s one of the few areas where Kremlin is actually a little different, as it does not actively promote gay culture, but simply tolerates it).

    Thousands of people

    -
    -
    -

    Although in also Moscow, can hold the gay hugs sign – no one gives a shit (apart from a couple of hipster teenagers that beat him a little)

  305. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    I really think that it would be quite easy to challenge Hollywood. Two possible strategies:

    1.) Make movies in Eastern Europe starring only whites.

    You could make such movies, but they wouldn’t get any distribution. That’s the real problem – control of distribution. Your movie won’t get screened in theatres. You can put it out on DVD but no stores will sell it. No major online retailer will stock it. People won’t be able to stream it either. No mainstream critic will review it. No mainstream media outlet will publicise it.

    It will be as if your movie doesn’t exist. You will lose all your money.

    If you take on Hollywood you’re not dealing with people who have the slightest intention of playing fair and you’ll find that you’ve taken on the entire media/bureaucratic/political establishment. They will combine to crush you.

  306. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    2.) Or, less ambitious, enter into a partnership with China, to challenge Hollywood. Making movies in China with specific appeal to Europeans.

    That’s a much more viable option. Eventually the Chinese will have to understand that the culture war is the one that counts. If they lose the culture war with the US they’re done for. Therefore they had better start seriously developing their soft power. That means they must aim to challenge Hollywood’s influence, not just in China but everywhere.

    • Replies: @songbird
  307. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    I really think that it would be quite easy to challenge Hollywood. Two possible strategies:

    1.) Make movies in Eastern Europe starring only whites.

    We already have this – e.g. the Russian film industry.

    Ticket sales can be a little disappointing though, sometimes in inverse correlation to how good the film is…

    • Replies: @songbird
  308. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Poor Dmitri and his calf love for Israel

    About Mizrahi Jews you said:

    No, he says Mizrahi Jews are mistreated by staff/security

    Again, it’s the same as saying “white/European person are mistreated due to their race by staff in Russia.”

    White/Europeans in Russia are not good analog for Mizrahi Jews in Israel. Mizrahi Jews have always been and still are discriminate against in Israel:

    https://www.trtworld.com/opinion/understanding-israel-through-the-marginalised-mizrahi-jews-389035
    Understanding Israel through its marginalised Mizrahi Jews
    For Mizrahi Jews, the problem was always the fact that they came from “enemy” lands, sharing the same cultural heritage, language and features; they looked like the enemy. So in the areas that border the occupied territories, Mizrahi Israelis are often stopped, ID cards and Hebrew accents checked, their Jewishness, or not, scanned for.

    Now about how clean and modern is the railway station in Tel Aviv. You wrote “The trains are more modern than…” and “this particular station is clean and new.” First a general impression of Tel Aviv:

    http://www.roadjunky.com/guide/tel-aviv-travel-guide/
    Polluted, ugly and full of Israelis with attitude [...] Tel Aviv is noisy, dirty, smelly and full of ugly, blackened buildings. There’s practically nowhere quiet to sit and collect your thoughts and it’s full of Israelis in a rush, shouting at each other and having attitude contests. It’s expensive to go out and so you would stay home but then the neighbours have decided to have a lengthy family discussion on the staircase – even though they’re two floors apart.

    Now about railways and stations:

    Train Travel in Israel Is Anything but Romantic

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/.premium-train-travel-in-israel-is-anything-but-romantic-1.5435738

    But Israeli trains are functional, not fun. The views are unimpressive – dusty, dirty and crowded. At no time did more than a minute or two elapse without houses intruding on the view. Seen from the train, Israel looks like one long unbroken stretch of buildings – and the construction is ongoing. Moreover, while the trains were clean, the windows were often dirty.

    The stations, in contrast, were nightmares, almost without exception. Access to the platforms was inconvenient, often consisting of a narrow flight of stairs, and the food sold there is stale, tasteless and expensive. Having eaten at three different stations, my conclusion was that dying of hunger is preferable.

    Now about security:

    that there is more security in Northern Tel Aviv – no there isn’t, and I know this town a lot

    I am beginning to doubt that you know Israel well. More and more I do reading on internet more ”Polish Perspective’ account seems to be more accurate than your rosy fairy tales. I will not insinuate that you have never been to Israel. But you can’t prove you have been there just like you can’t prove that you are “North European man as anyone can look.” Your eyesight is impaired. No it is just that blind puppy love. Take a notice I am not accusing you of lying. I am just insinuating that you are not right in your head. I state that for reasons of your impairment, hopefully temporary, by the condition of puppy love you are an unreliable narrator and react unreasonably to any negative statements about the subject of your puppy love.

    Why you did not consider a possibility that a particular tourist on his route could have experienced more security checks in Northern Tel Aviv. Do you know his route? Do you know in which section of town he was entering store and offices where he was subjected to security checks? Do you expect that a tourist should give statistically accurate amount? Perhaps he should stated that “on my particular trip I saw/experienced more security checks in NTA.” Would it be OK with you then?

    Now return to security and about profiling which you claim here and in other comments is never done in Israel. In Israel they do not have a word for racial profiling because it is so acceptable that they may not even be aware of it. The following is about airport security.

    In Israel, Racial Profiling Doesn’t Warrant Debate or Apologies

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/in-israel-racial-profiling-doesn-t-warrant-debate-or-apologies-1.5439830

    “Oh, that’s simple,” he answered matter of factly. “We use racial profiling, they don’t.”

    To Israelis, the practice of picking people out based on racial stereotypes is so self-evident, there isn’t even a Hebrew term for it.

    In Israel though, there is no question whatsoever. It all happens quite openly. If you have a Hebrew name and ‘look Jewish,’ the security screening will be swift and painless. If your name is a bit less obviously Israeli, then there are some other key questions.

    Many Israelis have no problems with this: Let the Muslims suffer for the sins of their brothers.

    You say that “Nothing to do with liking or not liking.” So you are implying that security officers in Israel unlike everywhere else in the world are following 100% their protocol and instructions. Beside they are not really officers. They do the least desirable jobs. Just like Mizrahi Jews who are sent to do work dealing with Palestinians also as soldiers:

    But while Mizrahi Jews are subject to these ID checks they also have disproportionately ended up serving the army in Israel’s border areas, on the frontline of enforcing the occupation in Palestinian territories.

    You do not understand psychology of security guards, police officers and soldiers. More power they have to fuck you up more leeway they have to exercise lenience at their whim. If they think you look OK or for some reason they like you and are in good mood they will be less strict with you and they can be real pain in the neck and real sticklers when they want. Nothing will convince me that Israeli security personnel is not bending the rules at will. This is normal human operating procedure. Israeli’s are humans, most of the time. Look at this IDF personnel on their trip to Auschwitz. Does their shabby appearance inspire anybody that they would follow rules 100%? Besides we know that a part of their operating procedure is profiling which means a selective enforcement.

    You are very unreliable, Dmitri. Perhaps you should comment on things you can remain objective about. Lay off Israel.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Anon
  309. @utu

    Demented might be too strong.

    I’m not sure, given his repeated chimpouts in this thread. Now he’s going after you. “Enjoy”, I guess.

    Israel Shamir has posted very interesting article about Jewish demands for restitution from Poland. Could you comment about it? I was shocked by the Poland Hate Fest in comments from chiefly Russian, I guess, commenters. Actually Shamir, the unreformed Stalinist, is partly responsible for it by few paragraphs he wrote about unforgivable sins Poland committed against Russia.

    Part of the reason why I knew someone had created a doppleganger of my account was that my supposed “comment” was in an Israel Shamir or The Saker comment thread(I don’t remember exactly which one it was, but it was one of them). As a general rule, I never read him (nor the Saker), and I am not going to read now either.

    As for anti-Polish hate, well, I’ll just have to take your word for it. Generally speaking it is my experience that anonymity usually brings the worst out of people. It is also my experience that typically the loudest and most shrillest minority of haters are typically those who are heard the most. I’ve made a point before about the anti-Ukrainian sentiment on the Polish right. Most Poles are quite positive to Ukrainians but it isn’t something you go out of your way expressing on a regular basis whereas those who are negative are marginal in society but extremely vocal.

    I have not met that many Russians but those I have met, often abroad, have been nothing but pleasant to meet and discuss with. People I know who have gone to Russia have similarly told me that the people were great. I think there is typically a lot of latent nationalism and that is typically bringing the worst out of people in those kinds of comment sections. IRL always beats online, in my experience. The worst kind of autism typically melts away instantly once you actually meet people face to face.

    • Replies: @utu
  310. dfordoom says: • Website
    @AaronB

    my general impression is that the Right in America has an attitude of servile admiration towards Jews, although perhaps less antisemitic than Sailer.

    For the less intelligent kind of right-winger there’s a lot of appeal in Israel-worship. They’d like to be allowed to treat Mexicans the way Israelis treat the Palestinians. They also tend to worship militarism and imperialism and Israel is all of that on steroids.

    In Steve’s case I think the problem is his IQ fetishism. We know Jews are smarter than everyone else (we know this because the Jews keep telling us) so therefore they must be the master race.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @AaronB
  311. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    I’m straining my memory, but I think I’ve only ever seen two Russian films: Alexander Nevsky and Black Lightning. I’m not opposed to watching them, but there does not seem to be much of a pipeline. I must have seen at least 10x the number of German films, and I don’t even like German films, beyond the chance to hear the language.

    Part of the problem with making movies outside of Hollywood is few countries, not even Russia, have the same size domestic market as the US. English is also a more salable language. People hate subtitles, and English-speaking people are spoiled and don’t even like dubs.

    In the 1970s, a few movies were made in Europe, where countries cooperated and they reshot every scene with the same actors speaking, I think up to 3 different languages. There might be value in some sort of formula like that, doing basically the same production in maybe two or more languages. For example, if you do a moderately priced production in German and English, with a German setting – it may really clean up in Germany in a way a normal Hollywood film of the same budget would not.

    Along similar lines, I think there is a lot of potential in China. Crossover films, with mixed casts and Chinese production seem to struggle in the West, after Jackie Chan’s stopped being able to do good stunts. Maybe, some of those movies could be shot with dual casts. Same props, same special effects, but once for an Asian audience and once for a European one.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  312. songbird says:
    @dfordoom

    I really believe China has some built in advantages over Hollywood. Very few family films come out of Hollywood. Even Disney films these days have weird messages.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  313. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    White/Europeans in Russia are not good analog for Mizrahi Jews in Israel. Mizrahi Jews have always been and still are discriminate against in Israel:

    Mizrahi Jews are the majority in Israel, and also overrepresented doing the working class jobs in which you would be getting treated in Israel.

    Again, you don’t get freedom security checks from Mizrahi Jews (for being solo European male tourist), unlike native Israeli Mizrahi Jews, in Israel. If you’re in Israel for a minute you would how bizarre the story is.

    Why you did not consider a possibility that a particular tourist on his route could have experienced more security checks in Northern Tel Aviv. Do you know his route? Do you know in which section of town he was entering store and offices where he was subjected to security checks?

    Because I know the town (which is small).

    You can only get security checked in a couple of museums in North Tel Aviv. Or in the mall up in Ramat Aviv (which a tourist wouldn’t ever go that far to).

    Now about railways and stations:

    Your article only mentions lack of shade and something about bad quality of food in the restaurants.

    Again, I wouldn’t know, as I do not go to the restaurants in the train station.

    We’ve already repeated this about three times above.

    Beside they are not really officers. They do the least desirable jobs. Just like Mizrahi Jews who are sent to do work dealing with Palestinians also as soldiers:

    Explained above. If you have Israeli ID – on the number on the card they can tell if you are Jewish or not.

    Everyone gets checked, all time. Line up queue and get checked. You would know this if you were ever there. Both of you weren’t, so the argument with you is a little circular.

    rict with you and they can be real pain in the neck and real sticklers when they want. Nothing will convince me that Israeli security personnel is not bending the rules at will. This is normal human operating procedure. Israeli’s are humans, most of the time. Look at this IDF personnel on their trip

    Utu I don’t think you are a serious commentator. What kind of strange arguing and brain process is this with the unrelated video?

    For the amount of time you have spent on this, you could have been there and back.

    To recap. Everyone goes through the security checks – you will too if you visit. The people serving you will be mostly Mizrahi. The train stations (at the airport) are modern (but they might lack shade or have bad food, the latter I wouldn’t know).

    Shabbiness is in the building quality, which you’ll notice once you leave the station or walk into a bad area.

    -

    I think I remember having an argument with you before about food in Israel – which I was writing to you when I was in Israel.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @utu
  314. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    I’m straining my memory, but I think I’ve only ever seen two Russian films: Alexander Nevsky and Black Lightning. I’m not opposed to watching them, but there does not seem to be much of a pipeline. I must have seen at least 10x the number of German films, and I don’t even like German films, beyond the chance to hear the language.

    Part of the problem with making movies outside of Hollywood is few countries, not even Russia, have the same size domestic market as the US. English is also a more salable language. People hate subtitles, and English-speaking people are spoiled and don’t even like dubs.

    It’s also the case people do not have the attention span to enjoy many good films today.

    “Nelyubov”, last year was good in my view. But it was only something like 60th or 70th (or something – I can’t remember exactly detail) most popular film in the cinemas for last year, in the home market.

    Films like Fast and Furious or Pirates of Caribbean sequel were getting tens of times more ticket sales.

    I’m not completely sure the significance – positive or negative – of this (good books used to be made still, when only a small proportion of the population could read books). As long as directors just have enough audience to still make the films…

  315. @Dmitry

    are you guys still talking about this?

  316. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Here about integrity and consistency of rule enforcement that you claim is 100%:

    Humiliation and sloppy security checks at IDF checkpoints

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4682202,00.html

    The soldiers’ testimonies also revealed incidents in which Palestinians arrived at the checkpoint in masses and, as a result, were let into Israel without being checked because of the burden.

    “Sometimes it was 1,200-1,400 Palestinians who were let in at once, although the crossing’s capacity was much lower,” one of the soldiers recounted.

    Stav Bartel, Israeli from birth, hopefully until death

    https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-you-have-to-be-security-checked-to-go-into-malls-in-Israel

    In Israel the security checks in malls and public places are not that serious.

    Usually when you enter malls, you will be asked to show the inside of your bag, although they won’t check all of your pockets and you’ll be checked with a metal detector. Most places have a manual one and not the large metal detector you need to go through.

    The guards are placed to deter people from doing funny stuff. They don’t check anyone excessively unless he/she is suspicious of them.

    Did I say: “Beside they are not really officers. They do the least desirable jobs.”

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/.premium-record-demand-for-security-guards-1.5408677

    One knowledgeable source added, however, that demobilized soldiers frequently prefer more “prestigious” security-related jobs, such as working in security at Ben-Gurion International Airport or at an embassy. And another problem, he said, was the generally low wages that security guards earn.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  317. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    As written above, they check your bag or wave you with metal detector when you go into malls/a few larger supermarkets/shops (also for concerts).

    That’s another detail (of so many) where I saw his story was invented. He said guards for malls/supermarkets with “assault rifles”, stopping people with yamulkes, while never ever stopping him. Well it’s made up even in the description of the guard – no these guards don’t have guns, let alone assault rifles.

    The guards who are licensed with guns are the ones for schools or inside banks. For malls/supermarkets, they do not have guns.

    -

    To go into stations, you need to go through the airport type metal detector.

    For the stations, some Israelis show their ID cards, or if they are soldiers they go through (just check their ID).

    -

    Both you and Polish Perspective have shown you like using Google to search for things in the English language, and then use your Google adventures to construct some strange posts (I guess the views suit you emotionally).

    At least you don’t pretend to have gone imaginary holidays like he does though, or have quite such a wild imagination.

    In neither case, any personal experience of the country, which is the point.

    These posts based on copy and pasting of things you half-read and half-understood from Google about subjects you have no familiarity, muddling together different things in a confused way, then arguing in circles with person who actually knows the place.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  318. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    I really believe China has some built in advantages over Hollywood. Very few family films come out of Hollywood. Even Disney films these days have weird messages.

    Yes, that’s true enough. Hollywood should be vulnerable because it makes disgusting movies that express contempt for its own audience. Unfortunately modern audiences seem to love wallowing in filth.

  319. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    That’s another detail (of so many) where I saw his story was invented. He said guards for malls/supermarkets with “assault rifles”, stopping people with yamulkes, while never ever stopping him. Well it’s made up even in the description of the guard – no these guards don’t have guns, let alone assault rifles.

    The guards who are licensed with guns are the ones for schools or inside banks. For malls/supermarkets, they do not have guns.

    The ones that check you at the door.

    And sometimes getting their ass kicked.

  320. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    As a general rule, I never read him (nor the Saker)

    It might be a useful rule, though I am not sure how one could formulate it a priori w/o reading or knowing them.

    The ‘doppleganger’ event is very strange.

  321. Silva says:
    @AaronB

    “Are Europeans natural cucks or the world’s greatest warrior people?”

    Both, and the first causes the second. Right or wrong, I say this from the outside with the utmost respect – but no small worry (Polish Perspective’s whitepills on Sweden (!) notwithstanding).

    • Replies: @AaronB
  322. Wency says:
    @songbird

    They are conservative in that they are much more aligned with their traditional cultural practices than with the Leftist mind-virus. Some practices that are traditional to them, such as higher levels of promiscuity, are radical and distasteful to ours. Just as praying to Mecca is radical and distasteful to us, but traditional to the Islamic world. That’s the nature of different cultures.

  323. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Dmitri is a True Believer in a number of things, but he doesn’t realize that yet because he thinks of himself as an ultimate skeptic. So anything that contradicts him must be false rather than a mistaken impression. But in the real world grey areas and mistaken impressions happen all the time. You will get a good impression of this if you read many sociology papers which are often a sort of modern journalism.

    For instance if I was to talk about relations between Tamils and Muslims in Ceylon I would be susceptible to contradiction by someone else’s account of having walked around and talked to a few people in say Kotahena. But I wouldn’t assume off the bat the other guy was lying, just that the people he talked to at random were not representative or that he misunderstood them.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  324. AaronB says:
    @dfordoom

    I generally agree with this, but the truly weird thing is that a genuine IQ fetishist who strictly followed the “science” would know that intelligent whites outnumber intelligent Jews by a handy margin.

    Admiring Jews is one thing – submitting to their dominance seems something else entirely.

    I think because Steve lacks religion or a metaphysics he naturally worships mere brute success. It seems to be the fate of those without a metaphysics to be ruled by those with one.

  325. AaronB says:
    @Silva

    Or, they will behave different based on whether they are motivated or unmotivated, whether they have a religion or don’t.

  326. Supreme Court rules narrowly for Colorado baker who wouldn’t make same-sex wedding cake

    Another 5-4 Supreme Court vote, right?

    By the Associated Press JUNE 04, 2018

    WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court is setting aside a Colorado court ruling against a baker who wouldn’t make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple. But the court is not deciding the big issue in the case, whether a business can refuse to serve gay and lesbian people.

    The justices’ limited ruling Monday turns on what the court described as anti-religious bias on the Colorado Civil Rights Commission when it ruled against baker Jack Phillips. The justices voted 7-2 that the Colorado Civil Rights Commission violated Phillips’ rights under the First Amendment.

  327. @utu

    I am not sure how one could formulate it a priori w/o reading or knowing them.

    I did read both a few years ago when I was just lurking Unz and I didn’t get through more than a few articles for each before both were off the list. Everyone’s taste is different.

    The ‘doppleganger’ event is very strange.

    It was and it frankly speaking still doesn’t make sense to me. The whole thing was just creepy. Glad it got sorted.

  328. @German_reader

    he’s just pissed about Sailer’s “antisemitism

    Like Greasy (and me, for that matter), Sailer is (apparently) half-Jewish.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  329. @utu

    The ‘doppleganger’ event is very strange.

    That’s what Graham Greene thought as well.

    https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/00/02/20/specials/greene-haiti63.html

    • Replies: @utu
    , @utu
  330. @for-the-record

    as far as I know Sailer is adopted and has no idea who his biological parents are.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  331. @German_reader

    as far as I know Sailer is adopted and has no idea who his biological parents are.

    Since I was adopted, a few years later I concluded that it was likely that I was half-Jewish biologically, (which indeed appears to be the case based on evidence my wife dug up when I was 30).

    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/evolutionary-psychology/conversations/topics/2725

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @German_reader
  332. AaronB says:
    @for-the-record

    So finally it makes sense. Thanks.

  333. @for-the-record

    I always thought that was just speculation on Sailer’s part.
    In any case, I don’t think it can be denied that on the whole his view of Jews is quite negative (if not quite at the same level as some of the more clearly antisemitic pieces by other authors on Unz review).

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @AaronB
  334. @German_reader

    I always thought that was just speculation on Sailer’s part.

    It is. Steve is brilliant and he knows it so he just assumed that he was part Jewish. That is seriously how his mind works.

    I don’t think it can be denied that on the whole his view of Jews is quite negative

    Then why did you put antisemitism is quotes?

    Steve is a genius and an American hero. But the guy is an anti Semite and he is anti Semitic in the most passive aggressive, obnoxious way possible.

    He’s also a sperg of some sort and has a hard time realizing that most people don’t see the world the same way he does. He wrote that the reason white America was so aghast at Michael Vick for the dog fighting was because white Americans are jealous of black athletes and were just using dog fighting as an excuse to punish one (Vick). It didn’t even occur to Steve that most white Americans don’t have the racial resentment against black athletic achievement that he does and that people could genuinely be horrified by cruelty to dogs.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @German_reader
  335. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    His view is more subtle than that that.

    On the surface, he’s quite negative. But he also continues to accept that Jewish dominance is a function of IQ, despite the exhaustively detailed rebuttals by Ron Unz and others, which he refuses to engage with, and indeed despite the fact that a few moments spent thinking about the math will show this clearly.

    He also frequently suggests the Jewish elite should be pleaded with for concessions rather than suggesting their position is unnatural – which he plainly does not believe – and that whites should wrest back control.

    The total effect of reading Sailer on Jews is to condition whites to plead with the Jewish elite from a subordinate position rather than wrest power, and to condition whites to view Jews as their natural superiors whose dominance is grounded in natural causes.

    Don’t be fooled by the apparent negativity of his attitude.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  336. AaronB says:
    @Greasy William

    Steve is brilliant and he knows it so he just assumed that he was part Jewish. That is seriously how his mind works

    .

    Exactly. And as long as whites keep on producing people who think like this, Jews will be their natural leaders.

    And whites think this way because without a metaphysics, they worship success.

  337. @Greasy William

    Then why did you put antisemitism is quotes

    Antisemitism is kind of relative, compared to some of the almost demonological Occidental observer pieces published here Sailer is quite mild. And tbh, I do believe there’s lots to criticize about the influence of Jewish organizations and individuals in Western societies (but then most people would certainly consider me an antisemite as well).
    I can see though how you’re annoyed by Sailer, his modus operandi can get quite tiresome. There’s also always a lingering suspicion (at least for me) that he’s more radical than he lets on. I can remember one piece which could be interpreted as using chimps as stand-ins for American blacks, but it was written in such a way that there was just enough plausible deniability. I find something like that rather dubious.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @reiner Tor
  338. Dmitry says:
    @Anon

    There’s a thousand shades of grey area in the world. And – also, on the internet, people doing pure imaginations and inventions, like in this story of an imaginary travel, which we both know is imaginary.

    The latter kind of fantasists are is encouraged a lot by the format of the internet.

    As for my own view – of course people who disagree with my subjective impressions are not necessarily “false”. I usually even write all my personal biases, background and emotional views on the top of the post.

    • Replies: @Anon
  339. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    I followed him for a few months.

    I don’t think he is antisemitic. I think he is, rather like AaronB says, has some fetish with things like American Jews (I guess he would like to be part of and yet also is persecuted by), the physical ability of Negro men in sport, and golf etc.

    He’s similar to a lot of the New York Times writers, with a different politics, but the same American obsessions based on a sense of loss of identity and community (?).

    He has the same talent as New York Times or Atlantic writers for writing beautiful English and long essays (mixed with all kinds of personal anecdotes, told in enjoyable style of an oldtimer grandfather),.

    When talking about non-American subjects, he can seem a little ignorant.

    He has some problems with statistics (first year course basic).

    He would have become a successful New York Times essay writer, book review writer, or film critic – if he had not had a different beliefs on controversial questions than them (and become persecuted for it).

    There’s also always a lingering suspicion (at least for me) that he’s more radical than he lets on. I can remember one piece which could be interpreted as using chimps as stand-ins for

    This is typical of New York Times American political technology.

    In a way, I prefer if they just said openly their view. He also always allows my comments, but the thing I also didn’t like was getting my comments delayed by him (sometimes only approved after a few days).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  340. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    which we both know is imaginary.

    I don’t know it’s imaginary.

    You don’t know it’s imaginary. You can make an educated guess, which I suppose you did.

    Weighing your evidence against his and the other posters here who know something about Israel and Europe I don’t think you have made a convincing case. Obviously if both of you are telling the truth you know more about Tel Aviv and Jerusalem than he does. But you don’t live there either. I know we have actual Israeli posters once in a while, it would be nice to hear from them.

    What happened to Karlin’s friend?

    I usually even write all my personal biases, background and emotional views on the top of the post.

    But you’re not necessarily aware of them, though you are aware of some of them.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Dmitry
  341. utu says:
    @Anon

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreliable_narrator

    Attempts have been made at a classification of unreliable narrators. William Riggan analysed in a 1981 study discernible types of unreliable narrators, focusing on the first-person narrator as this is the most common kind of unreliable narration.[4] Adapted from his findings is the following list:

    The Pícaro
    a narrator who is characterized by exaggeration and bragging, the first example probably being the soldier in Plautus’s comedy Miles Gloriosus. Examples in modern literature are Moll Flanders, Simplicius Simplicissimus or Felix Krull.

    The Madman
    a narrator who is either only experiencing mental defense mechanisms, such as (post-traumatic) dissociation and self-alienation, or severe mental illness, such as schizophrenia or paranoia. Examples include Franz Kafka’s self-alienating narrators, noir fiction and hardboiled fiction’s “tough” (cynical) narrator who unreliably describes his own emotions, Barbara Covett in Notes on a Scandal, Charles Kinbote in Pale Fire, and Patrick Bateman in American Psycho.

    The Clown
    a narrator who does not take narrations seriously and consciously plays with conventions, truth, and the reader’s expectations. Examples of the type include Tristram Shandy and Bras Cubas.

    The Naïf
    a narrator whose perception is immature or limited through their point of view. Examples of naïves include Huckleberry Finn, Holden Caulfield and Forrest Gump.

    The Liar
    a mature narrator of sound cognition who deliberately misrepresents themselves, often to obscure their unseemly or discreditable past conduct. John Dowell in Ford Madox Ford’s The Good Soldier exemplifies this kind of narrator.

  342. Dmitry says:
    @Anon

    I don’t know it’s imaginary.

    You don’t know it’s imaginary. You can make an educated guess, which I suppose you did.

    Weighing your evidence against his and the other posters here who know something about Israel and Europe I don’t think you have made a convincing case. Obviously if both of you are telling the truth you know more about Tel Aviv and Jerusalem than he does. But you don’t live there either. I know we have actual Israeli posters once in a while, it would be nice to hear from them.

    What happened to Karlin’s friend?

    If you don’t know the place, then you don’t have data points to make a judgement one way or another (even on such tall tales). I know as I know the place where it becomes impossible. (And he does, as he knows he made it up).

    Making a ‘convincing case’ (to which jury?) is kind of irrelevant, as it is not a trial, and the guy just made up a story which is not a crime. I am simply writing down my knowledge.

    For people who aren’t there, it’s impossible and not interesting to discuss it, over the internet – unless you are like Utu and want to copy and paste unrelated random texts from Wikipedia and chase around various phantoms that follow his unusual brain patterns.

    All you have to do is come down to the actual country and you’ll realize in a day on all the different little points discussed.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @utu
  343. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    When talking about non-American subjects, he can seem a little ignorant.

    About Steve Sailer again.

    E.g.

    He groups Sergei Korolev under the topic “Ukrainian Aerospace Geniuses” based on place of birth.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/ukrainian-aerospace-geniuses

    Well, nationality did not work quite that way (not everywhere is America)…

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @AP
  344. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Making a ‘convincing case’ (to which jury?) is kind of irrelevant, as it is not a trial, and the guy just made up a story which is not a crime. I am simply writing down my knowledge.

    It’s relevant to us, otherwise there is no point to “writing down your knowledge”. You could keep it to yourself and get the same degree of satisfaction. But if you make a case against it, which you have spent a fair bit of time doing, you can expect discussion on that.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  345. @Dmitry

    Well, nationality did not work quite that way (not everywhere is America)

    Korolev was a (Great) Russian, wasn’t he?

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Dmitry
  346. peterAUS says:
    @Greasy William

    Informative post.
    I am not quite sure that’s how I see all that (or, better, how some much smarter people than me saw it when wrote those materials I read and got my understanding from).

    …use Egypts massive manpower to grab a beachhead on the Suez and then bleed Israel white trying to eject the Egyptian forces. Israel is far and away more sensitive to casualties then any other country in the world, a high casualty war will show the Israeli public that holding on to the Sinai isn’t worth it for them.

    Agree.
    This is what I got different:

    Sadat lied to Assad. Sadat said he was going halfway through the Sinai and then was going to have the Soviets force a ceasefire, ideally within the first week.

    Where did you get this from?
    My understanding was that the Egyptian plan was as you described above. In essence, take that strip of land, fortify it and defend under the AA umbrella. The umbrella being the crucial part of it.
    Moving out of that umbrella was not Egyptian plan at all…….
    You say “Sadat lied”. Source?

    The Syrian strategy was to overwhelm the vastly out manned Israeli troops on the Golan within 48 hours and then dig in and have the Soviets force a ceasefire before Israel could counter attack.

    Not my understanding.
    My understanding was/is:
    The Syrian strategy was to overwhelm the vastly out manned Israeli troops on the Golan within 48 hours and then dig in, repel the initial Israeli counterattacks, hold the ground and have the Soviets force a ceasefire.
    In essence exactly the same strategy Egypt was using at the other end……
    The difference was in execution. Egyptians made it. Syrians failed.
    In order to help Syrians (who were in a really deep trouble) Egypt agreed to push.
    Got extended, outside of umbrella, didn’t plan/train for that, add “Arabs at war”, IDF quick recovery and reaction, and that’s it.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  347. AP says:
    @German_reader

    He was half Russian and half Ukrainian. His father was a Russian, son of an official sent to Ukraine. His mother was Ukrainian (though through his mother’s side there was some distant Polish heritage, as is typical of Ukrainians).

  348. Dmitry says:
    @Anon

    Sure, I wrote down all my points now. My overall advice is to visit and see for yourselves (although unfortunately you won’t receive any freedom from security, and magical good treatment better than the locals – in yamulkes – get, for your skin tone, and you won’t get any magical sympathy from Ethiopian Jews, or experience supermarket security guards with assault rifles). Really just a small provincial place, but also friendly, very safe.

  349. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    His mother was Ukrainian, from an old Cossack officer family from what is now Chernihiv oblast. His father was from Russia, from a civil servant’s family. Korolev grew up in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  350. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    If you don’t know the place, then you don’t have data points to make a judgement one way or another (even on such tall tales). I know as I know the place where it becomes impossible. (And he does, as he knows he made it up).

    Wake up. You are anonymous as almost anybody here. You are accusing somebody of lying and you cannot prove it. Don’t you understand? You can’t prove you have been to Israeli w/o breaking your anonymity. But even if you spent some time in Israel it does not make you an expert. Actually you are unreliable and biased narrator when it comes to Israel which everybody can see reading your comments about Israel. Polish Perspective’s two comments on the subject of his trip to Israel as I have demonstrated are not in any contradiction to what we can find about Israel on internet. All of your claims are exaggerations. Do you understand what would be a burden of proof to determine that PP is a liar here? Your claims are hollow. If you were interrogated by a lawyer at court where you were sued for libel and slander you would be made a fool. PP would not even have to show up in the court to show his visa and airline ticket to find you guilty. You would be convicted on hollowness of your claims that each of them can easily be contradicted with an actual case from Israel as seen by actual witnesses. Stop being that naive because we may begin doubting your intelligence. Don’t sacrifice your reputation on the altar of your puppy love for Israel.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  351. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    Yes. I think Sailer edited the original post, but he just didn’t know about nationality in the Soviet Union.

    Technically Korolev is Russian by nationality (as he wrote down in unfortunate circumstances).

    Nationality inherited from the parents, not the birthplace.

    Korolev’s mother was likely Ukrainian by nationality and birthplace (surname Moskalenko)

    I’m not sure if you could always choose which parent’s nationality you would take throughout the entire period, but the mixed category does not exist, and Korolev definitively writes down that he has Russian nationality.

    • Replies: @AP
  352. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Wake up. You are anonymous as almost anybody here. You are accusing somebody of lying and you cannot prove it. Don’t you understand?

    All your replies about the subject are based on some confused reading of somethings on Google.

    It’s the difference between people who know nothing of a place, except through text on a screen and their excited imagination, and people who actually know it through real life.

    It’s kind of interesting in showing how confused people can become by text on a screen, without having real life context.

    Ironically, amount of time you spend denying it you could have been there and back by yourself (maybe have a nice sun tan).

    • Replies: @utu
  353. AaronB says:

    Now I have to know who will give up first utu or Dmitry…

    Will utu’s bitter hatred for Jews give him the fuel to to keep on going or will Dmitry’s strange love affair with Israel make him persevere…

    It’s a Death Match!

    I will check back here in a few years time to see..

    • Agree: Greasy William
    • LOL: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  354. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    All your points are true. And yet, by nationality, he was (in formal, legal sense) – Russian.

    There’s nothing to stop him being for (post-Soviet Union living) Ukrainians a hero. If he was born after 1990, he would have been all his life as a Ukrainian.

  355. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    Utu will always go last.

    He spends a lot of time arguing with me about countries he does not visit, but has never told me anything about the things he actually knows about and could teach me about (his own country – America I guess?).

    • Replies: @AaronB
  356. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    If he goes last, it will prove that hatred is stronger than love. Don’t let him do that!

    What is his country do you think? My strong suspicion is that he’s Polish. But maybe Romanian.

    What do you think?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Anon
  357. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    All your replies about the subject are based on some confused reading of somethings on Google.

    Google was helpful to find articles in MSM and discussion boards written by actual non anonymous people. The articles have much higher weight than texts signed by anonymous ‘Dmitri’ who makes lots of claims about his knowledge and experience of Israel that ultimately can’t be verified and never will.

    It’s kind of interesting in showing how confused people can become by text on a screen, without having real life context.

    Don’t you understand that all you are here is a text on the screen. You have no other existence apart form the text on the screen. There is no ‘real life context’ except for your text. You are the text. Don’t you get it?

    Your naivety and ingenuousness are endearing but you got to wake up, man, because you are doing unnecessary damage.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  358. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Don’t you understand that all you are here is a text on the screen. You have no other existence apart form the text on the screen.

    Lol I have an existence apart from text on a screen, including plenty of time in the country under discussion.

    The problem is talking to people whose knowledge of the subject is limited to text on a screen (and noticeably so from the way they add together things from Google, often talking about completely different subjects without real life context).

    The strange thing is to spend all this time arguing about a country you didn’t visit. All this writing, but without knowledge, context or experience.

    In all this time, we probably could have had an interesting discussion and you could have taught me a lot of things about a country you know personally (and not through google), and which I don’t understand. Actually I would be very interested.

    • Replies: @utu
  359. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    If he goes last, it will prove that hatred is stronger than love. Don’t let him do that!

    What is his country do you think? My strong suspicion is that he’s Polish. But maybe Romanian.

    What do you think?

    I think he must love really – otherwise why care.

    With the Polish guys, it would actually be very interesting to hear more about Poland politics, also some interesting things of language I have quetions about.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  360. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    Good point – the opposite of love is not hate, its indifference, as they say.

    Utu deep down loves Jews. And we should love the poor sap back. He clearly suffers greatly.

    You’ve had your feud with Polish Perspective, but he’s quite smart and his comments on Poland are great. I agree. It would be great to hear more about Poland and its politics.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  361. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    The part of the conversation with any merit has been concluded. It does not matter who says what after this.

    Utu seems like a Polish-American academic to me but I will not press it.

    There are a lot of academics on here. You?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  362. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    His English isn’t good enough to be American, unless he’s a Pole working at an American uni. Quite possible. But somehow I think not.

    I am the furthest thing from an academic possible, although sometimes I regret I didn’t choose that life. It would have suited me, perhaps. But the politics would have bored me to death, and the bureaucracy and paperwork! No, its better I didn’t.

  363. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    It would be great to hear more about Poland and its politics.

    The last interesting news/political story* I was following about Poland (from a few months ago) is how they are in ecological catastrophe and 40,000 people are being killed a year due to the pollution from over use of burning coal, in relation to an energy mix that would use a greater proportion of the cleaner gas power plants.

    Meanwhile the politicians try to move away from Russian gas supplies to the Norwegian pipeline, or even American LNG imports. People who argue for increasing co-operation with Russia on gas imports are persecuted. (Other options like development of renewable energy is impeded by the government and overregulation.)

    -
    *
    (The link in acase any Russian/Ukrainian still here)

  364. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    There was some anti-Ukrainian persecution going on at the time of his arrest (purges of Ukrainians) so this may have played a role in his choosing his father’s rather than mother’s ethnicity when under arrest.

  365. @peterAUS

    Where did you get this from?

    I don’t have the cites on hand but I’ve read a lot about the war. Egypt had two plans: 1. was go all the way up to the Mitla Pass. This was the plan that Sadat showed Assad. The other plan was just to grab a beachhead.

    The difference was in execution. Egyptians made it. Syrians failed.

    Syria had a much tougher nut to crack. The Golan is practically designed to defend against armored offensives and the IDF was able to get reserves their rapidly.

    On top of that, Syria did something Egypt did not: the Syrians broke through the Israeli lines in the Southern Golan. Why the Syrians chose to halt their offensive in the afternoon of October 7th with 3 hours of daylight left and no remaining Israeli opposition remains the biggest mystery of the war. What is most likely is that since the plan was for both the northern and southern spearheads to break through and then halt and dig in, as you said, the southern spearhead just did the typical Arab “well, we did our job” thing and decided to wait until they had further orders. With the way the Assad regime worked, a Syrian commander who chose to go beyond what was explicitly ordered could have been risking his life.

    In order to help Syrians (who were in a really deep trouble) Egypt agreed to push.

    The mid and late stages of the war showed how quickly plans can go awry in war and how much even a well trained and motivated Arab army can struggle when it is taken out of its book and has to improvise.

    When the war started, Kissinger expected Israel to quickly dispatch the Arabs. Very early on he realized that that wouldn’t happen, so decided what was best was that neither side achieve a clear victory so that a peace process could begin. The Soviets also wanted a quick ceasefire because they didn’t want to risk a confrontation with the US that could derail detente.

    The problem was that the Arabs were so successful in the initial part of the war that they were not interested in a ceasefire in place. Sadat had always planned and sought a lengthy war, he wanted to traumatize Israel as badly as possible and to let the US know that it couldn’t afford to wash its hands of the region. And the Arab success had energized the Arab world so if Sadat accepted a ceasefire he would be criticized for throwing victory away.

    The Syrian position had indeed collapsed by October 14th and Sadat felt like he had to do something. He likely knew that the Egyptian October 14th offensive was pure suicide but politically he had no choice. Even with the failure of the offensive on the 14th and the simultaneous arrival of the American airlift, Sadat remained absolutely adamant that he would not accept a ceasefire, no matter how hard the Soviets and his own generals pushed.

    Little did Sadat realize that he was playing into Israel’s hands. As late as October 12th, Israel was desperate for a ceasefire. But once Nixon told them that the airlift was starting, Israel wanted to push off a ceasefire for as long as possible. Sadat’s true nature as a blockhead gave Israel the crucial days it needed to cross the canal and surround the entire Egyptian 3rd army. The road to Cairo was completely open and if not for the Soviets threatening to step in directly, Egypt would have ceased to exist as a state. It may be the quickest amount of time in history that a country has turned an amazing triumph into a catastrophic defeat.

    But what can you do? Arabs are retarded. If the 1973 war had been against Turks and Iranians instead of Syrians and Egyptians, no way Israel would have won.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  366. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    I have an existence apart from text on a screen, including plenty of time in the country under discussion.

    Even an AI bot that passed Turing test would make such a claim or perhaps not if it was more advanced than you and realized that claims about one’s corporeal existence are irrational in the realm of anonymous commentators whose only manifestation is the text that is posted.

    The strange thing is to spend all this time arguing about a country you didn’t visit.

    How do you know that I did not? Because the text with ‘utu’ tag somewhere stated so. Whatever ‘utu’ stated about him doing in the corporeal world is meaningless. Don’t you understand that I do not care about the actual statements made by you or PP about Israel. I just engage in inter-textual analysis or texts tagged with ‘Dmitri’ or ‘Polish Perspective’ which I compare against the text’s found outside the realm of anonymous commentators. The latter belong to another realm that has higher credibility and verifiability beyond mere intertextual analysis in this sense that more statements found there can be verified than statements found in texts tagged ‘Dmitri’. The statement ‘I was to Bora Bora’ can’t be verified if tagged by ‘Dmitri’ but it can if published in Jerusalem Post signed by Susan Applebaum. This is the difference between the two realms that you still do not get. You have to leave this innocence and naivety behind and move up. Children up to some age when watching cartoons on TV talk back to cartoon characters thinking they are kind of real but at some point they learn to delineate between different realms. You should try as well.

    you could have taught me a lot of things

    That’s what I am trying to do from my first comment in this thread. I want you to realize that here you just exist as a text so your narrative should adhere to rules and standards of discourse implicated by different epistemology and ontology of the realm of anonymous commentators. What are true and provable statements in this realm? In this realm some statement while they can be uttered do not have any meaning like for example: ‘he knows he made it up.” By uttering statement like that you reveal your ignorance that you are unaware where you are and even who you are. Because you are just a text and a text can’t know what other text knows.

  367. AaronB says:

    Meanwhile, in the world of humans and non-robots, Dmitrys assertions of authenticity must be judged based on intuition and our judgement of his character, such as it is, and his claims need not satisfy some highly abstract notion of “ontological” appropriateness, whatever that means.

    But perhaps it is better to move on, and not dwell on these petty narcissisms.

    Dmitry – as far as I understand, Polish people have a very complex relationship with Russians, and may not be willing to turn to them even in the face of an ecological disaster. One of my favorite writers, an Anglophone Pole, Joseph Conrad, had little good to say about Russians even though in my view his sensibility is quite similar to Russians.

    It is unfortunate, but such is human nature.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  368. utu says:
    @for-the-record

    Thanks. Very interesting about Graham Greene.

  369. utu says:
    @for-the-record

    I forgot to add which occurred to me later that Philip Roth used in one of his novel an impostor of himself. It is possible that Graham Greene’s doppleganger also was an invention.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  370. @AaronB

    Dmitry’s assertions sound reasonable, but his assertion that he knows that PP only invented his visit is less than proven. I’d put it as “possible, but not very likely.” To be sure, people do invent a number of things, so it’s possible that PP’s story was embellished for effect. Humans are unreliable narrators anyway, and so it’s actually possible that he distorts his experience unconsciously in a way that is not accessible to himself. From what we know about the way human memory works is that people often firmly remember things which didn’t happen (like security guards with assault rifles – perhaps he conflated soldiers with security guards? or there was an official visit with heavy militarized police presence?), or he misunderstood things. (If both Dmitry and PP were there as much as they claim, then obviously Dmitry understands details like who has assault rifles or how easy it is to get into a mall better.) I already mentioned the possibility that PP didn’t even have a bag with him, and so they just waved him through because the only thing those guards do is looking into bags. The news story utu brought about over a thousand Palestinians (!) going through a checkpoint into Israel without much screening certainly sounds more incredible to me than PP’s story. And yet its epistemic status is higher than that of PP’s claims.

    There’s nothing incredible in his feeling of camaraderie with Ethiopian Jews either (Dmitry claims it’s not possible), several years ago I felt similar things with nonwhite immigrants in the presence of (not even overly disdainful) locals in a Western European country (where I tried to speak a broken version of the local language, with rather little success). People can feel if someone likes you or considers you a potential ally.

    The simple fact that PP doesn’t like Israel or Jews means that it’s possible he distorts his story a lot. He was 18 when it happened, now he’s almost 21, 2-3 years at that age feel like a long time. And we know how human memory works.

    So my problem is with Dmitry’s claim that he “knows” that PP just invented the story out of whole cloth (and Max Blumenthal’s book). Yes, it’s possible, but it’s also possible (albeit even less likely) that for example both you and Dmitry are just sockpuppets of some Jewish organization which is out there to gaslight alt-right sympathizers. I have certainly known a (then 22) guy who went to chat pages claiming to be a 16-year-old girl and his interlocutors often didn’t find it out until “she” didn’t show up at the date. But once I’ve seen those conversations, he didn’t need much skills to do that, he just pretended to be what guys dream of, a girl who immediately wants to have sex and quickly agrees to a date. A neutral observer without a boner would have noticed it immediately. Heck, it’s possible his interlocutors noticed it and just pretended not to. (There was never any followup, so he didn’t show up at the place of the arranged date to take photos of the duped guy. For all I know the guys also never showed up.) Now we don’t constantly have boners, don’t want to have sex with either Dmitry or PP, so I think we’d notice if it was that easy. It’d take considerable effort to fake the online presence of either PP or Dmitry.

    Inventing stories: yes, it’s possible, and definitely more likely than inventing the whole person. But more likely are distortions, fake memories (I’m sure you’ve also read about how psychologists could plant firm memories into subjects), etc. Our memories for example tend to forget anything older than a few weeks. The reason we don’t is because we tend to periodically recall our memories. The second time you recall it, you don’t actually remember the original, instead the instance it was recalled. The third time you remember the second instance. Etc. So for example I firmly remember how I was very early at school and how the milk and buns etc. looked like in the school buffet and how the woman opened the door and started selling etc. when I was just 9 or 10 years old. I don’t actually remember the event: I remember the last time I recalled it, which was a few days ago. Whenever anyone mentions communist Hungary, or the 1980s in Hungary, this is one of my first memories. I don’t know how accurate it is. I might misremember minor details like the color of the wall (it white, but up to almost the height of an adult was covered with green painted lumber). There was a huge picture of a Hungarian prince at the entrance door (the school was named after him), so I remember that as well.

    Claiming to know such things (that PP invented the story of his visit to Israel) with such absolute certainty (as Dmitry claims) is just impossible. It’s all the more remarkable with Dmitry painting himself as a skeptic.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @utu
    , @Dmitry
  371. @German_reader

    I don’t find him annoying or bad or extremist or whatever. I’m just no longer interested that much in the topics he writes about. And I came to Unz because I just followed him, like Greasy.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  372. @AaronB

    I think it’s pretty obvious from his writing that Jews dominate because they are smart and because they are ethnocentric and clannish. They also tend to cluster into a few key industries like media or banking, while white talent is more dispersed. Sailer’s proposed solution is to increase (gentile) white ethnocentrism, for example this was the essence of his white strategy for Republicans. Whites could easily destroy Jewish dominance with half the ethnocentrism they have. However, whites currently are not ethnocentric at all, which is why a second best solution would be if Jews just understood that destroying their docile non-ethnocentric subjects will be ultimately bad for them. Though I wouldn’t oppose it, I came to the conclusion that it’s impossible. You cannot reason with them.

    I also don’t think Jews will stay forever dominant. The higher you climb the harder you fall. A small and thin and demographically declining minority cannot stay in power for long. After the disappearance of secular Jews, Tora True Jews won’t be able to wield much influence in gentile lands. It might all turn yet again into a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @utu
  373. @reiner Tor

    And I came to Unz because I just followed him, like Greasy.

    Partially the case for me as well (other factor was following Razib Khan…who has also gotten really annoying lately with all his “When Sulla comes” whining about US politics). I greatly prefer AK’s blog though nowadays which is much more relevant for European affairs and imo also has better commenters.

    • Replies: @songbird
  374. @utu

    It is possible that Graham Greene’s doppleganger also was an invention.

    I believe in Greene’s case there is independent confirmation, I seem to recall a long time ago reading about someone who followed up on this and was able to confirm that such an impostor existed (hotel bills when the “real” Graham Greene was on the other side of the world, etc.).

    And in theory it would appear that such confirmation can be found in the Graham Greene Papers held by the John J. Burns Library at Boston College:

    Box 43, Folder 7

    “Remembering: The Other…Whom Only Others Know”: correspondence, 1973 August-1980 April Should this be in subject files as “The Other Graham Greene”?

    Box 43, Folder 8

    Remembering: The Other…Whom Only Others Know”: correspondence and clippings, 1951 October-1975 January

    https://library.bc.edu/finding-aids/MS1995-003-finding-aid.pdf

    • Agree: utu
  375. AaronB says:
    @reiner Tor

    Intelligence is the least significant factor. A big part of it is tremendous motivation and will power of the kinds whites used to have back in the 19th century.

    But ethnic solidarity and motivation depend on the right metaphysical system.

    For instance, you whites are once again scoring an own goal with your new intellectual creation HBD. Steve Sailer pushes the view that motivation and will power count for little and accomplishment is largely genetically determined. This is the exact opposite of Jewish metaphysics.

    You don’t even need Jews as enemies – you demoralize yoursrlves.

    Of course whites could seize back power if they became ethnically conscious again – but ethnic consciousness depends on the right metaphysics, and there is the very real danger that whites will disappear as a racial group if they don’t abandon Enlightenment metaphysics.

    As for Jews being reasoned with, when they are at the peak of their power, and whites are, I am sorry to say, contemptible and produce lickspittles like Sailer and self-demoralizing ideologies like HBD, no, I cannot imagine Jews would be inclined to make any concessions.

    I certainly agree this situation will not last forever – Jews themselves are devolving towards a materialist metaphysics, and whites will either disappear as a distinct racial group and become Muslim in Europe and mulatto in America, or they will rediscover a motivating metaphysical vision and all that comes with it, including ethnic solidarity.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  376. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    I find Razib to be sort of insufferable. He may be a race realist, but there is enough of the obnoxious, ultra-tribal Indian in him, such as when he speaks of “the shocking, casual racism of whites” he faced while growing up and when he calls Ron Unz a white supremacist. Also, he may be smart, but as a writer, he is a droning dullard, with too high of an opinion of himself. I much prefer Gregory Cochran.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @utu
  377. AaronB says:
    @reiner Tor

    Well, I certainly agree with the trend of your epistemology – we can know nothing, and our minds are flawed and our perceptions corrupted!

    Have I not been saying something along these lines this whole time? Develop these insights a little further, and you’ll see through skepticism. But rationalists always stop short of applying their methods to rationality itself.

    The mystic is a skeptic who has taken that final step and, after destroying everything in the world, turns his gaze back on the one thing left standing, rationality, and destroys that too. Thus restoring the world and coming full circle.

    You are very correct in your subtle analysis of Dmitrys position, but you are too abstract and logical, a European weakness that makes you less effective in the real world and easily duped. Even though they can’t be logically demonstrated, “gut feelings” are invaluable in effectively navigating our world and often correct.

    No, Dmitry cannot prove beyond a doubt that PP made up his story, but he can give his reasons and then rely on his “spidy sense”, and we can also use our intuition and judgement of Dmitry to come to our own conclusions.

    I myself am not prepared to say PP outright lied, but Dmitry’s gut feeling I do find worthy taking into consideration based on my opinion of him.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  378. @songbird

    I agree, my opinion of him has become quite negative as well. Did he really call Ron Unz a “white supremacist”? That’s rather crass.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Greasy William
  379. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    I’m trying to find a quote, and I’m embarrassed to admit that I can’t. I guess he probably didn’t say it, after all. I had gotten the idea that he was kind of a social climber, who tried to reposition himself to advance his career, when he has the prospect of writing for the NYT, etc.

    The other thing I am completely sure he said, though, which is annoying enough, IMO. One thing I really hate is how quickly so many non-white immigrants take up the black victimhood narrative for themselves. What is a pretty standard part of going to school – having people give you crap – becomes racialized – and they try to use it for their personal advancement, all the while undoubtedly exaggerating it. It is absolutely disgusting, particularly coming from an Indian, whose native society is uniquely racialized and unmistakably third world.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  380. utu says:
    @songbird

    I do not know Razib or his writings but if you prefer Cochran over him who as the unreflective ‘high of an opinion of himself’ person is way up there, he must be really pretty bad. I can easily imagine ‘obnoxious Indian’ who I encountered a few but I also met nice ones. So it is not something one is born with. Or one could ask Razib about the genetic component of Indian obnoxiousness. On the scale of human development Cochran ranks lower than Sailer who has a great sense of humor and surprisingly broad literary knowledge and whose sperg-innes comes up in his stats in sports and golf which is fairly mainstream American while in the case of Cochran it is this unreflective know-it-all attitude and his boyish fascination in tanks and tank battles on the Eastern front.

  381. @AaronB

    But ethnic solidarity and motivation depend on the right metaphysical system.

    We get the idea!

    • Replies: @AaronB
  382. @German_reader

    He said that to save his career. I would have done the same thing if I were in his situation.

    For us this stuff is just a hobby but for Razib it is keeping the lights on. A man has got a right to eat.

    p.s.: I am not endorsing Razib. I know very little about him. Just recognizing that there are certain things he has to say.

  383. AaronB says:
    @Greasy William

    You do – they don’t!

    Don’t deprive them of what you already have as a Jew.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  384. utu says:
    @reiner Tor

    Very true about memories and them being written over during recollections but I do not think this is a main issue here because the argument is not about particular event registered by two independent observers but one side giving his impressions while the other side objecting on assumption that his model of reality is accurate. Say, I said that I saw a guy pissing in daylight in front of the Parliament building in Budapest and you objected: it is just impossible because it cannot happen because there is a police there and it does not happen because you know it because you live in Budapest. There are two issues at hand here: (1) some degree of naivety or rather lack of sophisticated understanding of himself by Dmitry and how some things work and (2) the ulterior motive which might be hidden from insight to Dmitri himself. I have addressed both issues already in my previous comments. Then there is the defensive mechanism of denial and doubling down when challenged or exposed. And then there are unhelpful interlopers motivated by spite and/or ill conceived solidarity.

    Now when it comes to ‘Polish Perspective’ I can’t find a fault in his two comments he wrote about his trip to Israel but few month ago when he indicated that he was 20 years old I found it rather odd. Not impossible but his quality of comments exceeds what one may expect from a person of this age. If true he certainly is very precocious and might be on his ways to great achievements. If the New Right movements had that quality human materiel I would be very optimistic. If it was a lie, it was not rational and serving no identifiable purpose but might have just inadvertently popped up like a cruse word in Tourette syndrome.

    Returning to memories: Amazing recall of images not seen 30 years is described by Oliver Sacks.

    https://www.newyorker.com/books/double-take/back-issues-franco-magnani
    Unlike those who suffer from prosopagnosia, Magnani is able to recall in extraordinary detail the Tuscan hill town of Pontito, where he grew up. Despite not having seen the town in thirty years, Magnani created a series of paintings of Pontito which displayed an almost photographic precision.

    I appreciated your comment. Thanks.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  385. songbird says:

    Regarding Indians – I’m painting with broad brush, of course – but I think there is something noticeably different about the way they behave from East Asians. Of course, I’ve heard of obnoxious Asians too, but the difference is that I’ve never encountered them personally. There is something different about the Indian psychology, IMO. I don’t know whether there is an inferiority complex because of colonialism or from India being noticeably behind China, or whether it is because they are sun peoples vs. ice peoples, or whether the caste system demonstrates a historical and possibly genetic proclivity to tribalism, even greater than the Jews. Standard qualifications…

    Cochran is indeed something of a know-it-all too, but the form it takes with him is much more congenial, and less snobbish. He’s more curmudgeonly than Steve, but in an impersonal and even sort of friendly way. His snarkiness is part of his short form. I would rate him high, in is niche, (which is more academic than Steve), compared to his peers.

    • Replies: @utu
  386. @AaronB

    Is your mother Jewish or your father? What is your non Jewish ancestry? Is it superior northern European genes?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  387. utu says:
    @reiner Tor

    Whites could easily destroy Jewish dominance with half the ethnocentrism they have. However, whites currently are not ethnocentric at all, which is why a second best solution would be if Jews just understood…

    It is possible that the regression to the ethnocentrism in Western culture mays happen as the last resort. But this would be damaging to our culture because our claim to moral superiority would be lost. So it would be preferable if Jews evolved and shed off their narrow minded tribalism and join the human race, meaning us. In other words it is preferable if they become like us rather than us becoming like them because the latter is devolutionary and regressive. We should not let Jews dragging us down to their level.

    I also don’t think Jews will stay forever dominant. The higher you climb the harder you fall.

    No sign of it yet but a possibility.

    It might all turn yet again into a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions.

    I do not think so. But if so not from the hand of Europeans or Americans. A serious civilizational collapse would have to occur first.

  388. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    Reiner I think you would be a great philosopher professor.

    Kinds of interesting theoretical ideas in your comment.

    You know a place you know easily no-limited bullshit (invented trip), because the mix up of all fine particulars that you could mix up. For a person who doesn’t know the place, then it’s different, so your own view is also valid.

    After you go there to check you’ll realize – all details not so much wrong as just copied from a couple of real negative internet articles/stories and actual travel reviews, misunderstood in all kinds of funny ways, and turned amusingly but completely backwards so the end result is a hilarious dream world of detailed opposites.

    Now of course, we may be an AI bot, and we could be living in a virtual reality simulator. I could be like the character Charles Kinbote, in the Nabokov novel ‘Pale Fire’, etc.

    We all have a million more interesting things to talk about, such as the above paragraph. Even the beloved ‘utu’ would be interesting if he would spend the time telling me about things and places he knows about, rather than texts he copies from Google without real life context.

    I take a final opportunity to shill for the Israel (a place I honestly find a little brutal to live in, but recommend with five-star reviews for tourism) – I write a few opinions on website tripadvisors (lost amongst around 100 thousand other people).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  389. AaronB says:
    @Greasy William

    Mother non-Jewish convert who later relapsed back into Catholicism. Halachically I’m as Jewish as you. I have chosen to reject that identity.

    Non-Jewish side Northern European. They were superior once – but today they are dying, disconnected from the heart, and living entirely in their heads.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  390. @AaronB

    Halachically I’m as Jewish as you.

    Jewish from your father’s side only = not Jewish. Ezra kicked all of your kind out when we came back from Babylon.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  391. utu says:
    @songbird

    Indians and Arabs have similar level of intensity in interpersonal relations. It is either being a great friend (‘come my FRIEND I have something to show you) or being hostile. So there is this fake familiarity that can turn into hostility on a dime. I would call it a transactional reality where there is always some transaction being negotiated with domination and subjugation close to the surface. There is no space of just being respectful to others by acknowledging their presence but not making any claims on them. Japan and Europe, mostly Northern Europe, are cultures where overt expression of your wants and desires with respect to others is subdued and considered low class.

    It is possible that the nature of the transactional reality is what hinders these cultures to produce some intellectual achievements because where everything is a transaction which hinges around domination and subjugation you can’t even think straight on abstract level. But this is what is being offered by the so called ‘vibrant culture’ so we are being dragged down to the lower level.

  392. AaronB says:
    @Greasy William

    Please tell that to my religious Jewish friends – they do not stop trying to bring me back into the fold! Its like a mafia I can never leave.

    But you are quite wrong halachically. An Orthodox conversion makes one fully Jewish. If Steve Sailer converted tomorrow he would have the exact same status as you, as much as that must annoy you :)

    I think your racially impure status makes you insecure. Why not use the blessing of your mixed race heritage as an opportunity to transcend tribal affiliations and join the human race?

  393. was your mom’s conversion Orthodox?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  394. peterAUS says:
    @Greasy William

    Why the Syrians chose to halt their offensive in the afternoon of October 7th with 3 hours of daylight left and no remaining Israeli opposition remains the biggest mystery of the war. What is most likely is that since the plan was for both the northern and southern spearheads to break through and then halt and dig in, as you said, the southern spearhead just did the typical Arab “well, we did our job” thing and decided to wait until they had further orders. With the way the Assad regime worked, a Syrian commander who chose to go beyond what was explicitly ordered could have been risking his life.

    The last sentence is my take on that.

    …. how much even a well trained and motivated Arab army can struggle when it is taken out of its book and has to improvise.

    My take:
    …how much even a well-trained for that particular mission only, and without sound fundamentals, an army can struggle when it is taken out of its book and has to improvise.
    Also, authoritarian societies produce people unwilling to take risks.
    Modern warfare demands solid fundamentals, will to risk and ability to improvise.
    That’s why I believe that IDF is superior to any potential opponent there.

    At the other hand authoritarian societies can absorb casualties with ease.
    Democracies can’t.
    Israel can’t, in particular, for obvious reasons.

    The Syrian position had indeed collapsed by October 14th and Sadat felt like he had to do something. He likely knew that the Egyptian October 14th offensive was pure suicide but politically he had no choice.

    Agree.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @utu
  395. @songbird

    I had gotten the idea that he was kind of a social climber, who tried to reposition himself to advance his career, when he has the prospect of writing for the NYT

    Well, the NYT column didn’t work out for him, but I did get the impression as well that he tries to distance himself from his past connections and to ingratiate himself with the mainstream right.
    His family is from Bangladesh iirc. One thing I found quite irritating was when he wrote about how privileged his family was, great landholdings, servants etc. Might go some way to explain his rather exaggerated elitist posturing.

    • Agree: songbird
  396. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    Also, authoritarian societies produce people unwilling to take risks.
    Modern warfare demands solid fundamentals, will to risk and ability to improvise.

    Not true of WW2 Germans.

    The Prussians were pretty good soldiers and pretty authoritarian.

    And the Japanese. Let’s not forget them.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  397. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    That’s an interesting point.

    Still, I stand by mine.

    I guess that yours had to do more with being a German and/or Japanese than with the type of society. Admit, big and interesting topic.

    In this particular case (Syria) the primary reason for failure was, IMHO, the authoritarian type society there and then which created rigid and inflexible command and control, among other things.
    Add an unhealthy dose of nepotism, mixed with “Arabs at War”, and the golden opportunity was missed.
    Badly missed, looking at the current state of affairs, for them, now.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  398. @Pericles

    Not so fast… the non-white birth rate is crashing. The white is treading water, so to speak. While non-whites have demographic momentum, their crash is worse than even Eastern Europe in the 1990′s (see the USA Hispanic birth rate). The problem lies with mass immigration.

  399. @utu

    And that’s why it’s important for rural and Southern whites to completely tune out the mainstream media, and focus again on self-reliance. That’s what the whole region and culture was founded upon. Unfortunately, many have instead turned to drugs and alcohol.

    • Replies: @utu
  400. utu says:
    @peterAUS

    Also, authoritarian societies produce people unwilling to take risks.

    WWI stats of death sentences/executions for cowardice, desertions…

    UK 3000/351
    Canada 222/25
    France 250/650
    Germany 150/48

    USA 145/35

    Austro-Hungary 1175/1148
    Italy 4000/750

    One can interpret these numbers in many ways and the severity of legal proceedings differs by country but clearly Germany had over one order of magnitude (20 times) lower number of executions than UK+Canada+France. These numbers should be normalized by army sizes so I ignore US which had much lower force but probably had higher rate of executions than Germans per capita. Do not know what to do with Italy and Austro-Hungary.

    Germany as more authoritarian than UK+CAN+FR+US had to execute 20 time less soldiers to keep others be willing to take the highest risk.

    https://www.quora.com/Which-country-executed-the-most-of-their-own-soldiers-during-World-War-1

  401. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    No, the truth is you’re right.

    Authoritarian political systems can often produce decentralized militaries that encourage personal initiative. This was the case in Germany. In fact, the German army encouraged greater personal initiative than the far more regimented American army, with its attempt at organizing along rigid “scientific” lines.

    But in the case of Syria, the Army itself was authoritarian, and that was the problem, along with the other things you mentioned.

    The real question is one of motivation to my mind. When faced with a really determined foe, like the Jordanian Legion or Hezbollah, the IDF hasn’t really distinguished itself. Eventually the Arabs will produce a large force of this kind.

    Probably not for some time though.

  402. utu says:
    @UrbaneFrancoOntarian

    It is a good advice but it won’t be taken.

  403. @Dmitry

    I wouldn’t participate in this particular discussion if you didn’t claim to know with absolute certainty that he invented his story.

    You can claim you don’t believe he traveled there at all. Possible, I wouldn’t care. You can claim many details of the story as told are untrue. Possible, even likely. The assault rifles of the security guards seem unlikely. But then again – maybe he mistook policemen for security guards. Just a quick search found that in late 2015 there were some troubles (stabbing attacks) in Israel, which might explain some enhanced security by assault rifle wielding police (click on the link and you can see them pictured), so does it make it a lie? You haven’t seen any police ever profiling anyone (racially or otherwise), but does it never happen?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3275590/Are-holidaymakers-safe-Israel-terrorist-attacks-continue-travel-experts-offer-advice-avoiding-violence.html

    A comprehensive list of attacks in Israel at the time, some of which are close to the claimed visit:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_violent_incidents_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict,_July%E2%80%93December_2015

    Maybe he happened to visit North Tel Aviv at a time when there was a stabbing in Tel Aviv (on November 19 it happened), and there was enhanced security in the whole city that day, but because he was in North Tel Aviv, he thought that it was a special North Tel Aviv security.

    You also claim that it’s impossible that Arab-looking Mizrahi ever discriminate against Arab-looking people. Not impossible at all, I gave you a counter-example (of Hungarians in the 1980s discriminating against other Hungarians, benefitting West German tourists), but you still retain the claim that it’s impossible for anyone who has seen Israel. Not impossible at all.

    In other words, some of your claims sound silly even if you’re correct. Anyway, I don’t put much stock in anecdotes. At first I didn’t even properly read PP’s original comment, because I often skip anecdotes. But your claim of knowing it with absolute certainty is just stupid.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  404. @AaronB

    Your approach is this: because we cannot know anything with absolute certainty, we should abolish logic itself. I strongly disagree with it. Europeans (except Jews) have disagreed with it for centuries or millennia (if we count the Greeks). Thomas Aquinas thought there was objective reality and we could learn it. Sorry I won’t throw out my whole history.

    I merely claim that the epistemological status of things should be in order. For example I know with absolute certainty that Charlemagne did exist. I know it and Dmitry knows it and Polish Perspective knows it and you know it. Yes, in a philosophical sense it’s not absolute certainty (solipsists like yourself will argue against it), but it’s certain enough for the purposes of such discussions.

    Dmitry’s claims are nothing like that. His claims are way below that, at most he can say – as you say – that his gut feeling is that. Except it’s not his “spidey sense”, as you put it, he doesn’t even claim it. He claims that for example anyone who visited Israel would know that security personnel are Arab-looking, and therefore (that’s Dmitry’s logic, not mine) no one who actually visited Israel would

    A) notice that they discriminate against Arab-looking people, and
    B) invent a story which involves security guards discriminating against Arab-looking people.

    I question A) (even if it seems to be Dmitry’s and also your personal experience, I don’t think you can be sure it never happens), but B) is just a silly argument. Of course PP could’ve invented the story even if he was in Israel. But he even might’ve perceived A) if he wanted to.

    easily duped

    By anonymous or pseudonymous commenters? Nope. I discount everything they say anyway. Notice that my argument is not that PP’s descriptions are perfectly describing reality, but that there are many other ways in which they could be false and yet still describe his memories of the place. As I wrote elsewhere, this is useless skepticism, i.e. being skeptical of something which doesn’t change a thing one way or another. I didn’t even properly read PP’s original account.

    A few points seem false in it – I searched online for pictures of the Ben Gurion Airport railway station, and it seemed like a nice railway station. I certainly wouldn’t describe it as “dilapidated”. Is it possible that PP mixed it up with something? That he misremembers? Yes, certainly.

    Even though they can’t be logically demonstrated, “gut feelings” are invaluable in effectively navigating our world and often correct.

    Yes. On the internet, however, gut feelings can easily mislead you. You only have the text. You have no reactions, you don’t see the smiles, the anger is occasionally visible (but might simply be caused by the other guy not seeing your eyes, too), so you’re missing all the clues.

    I have met dozens of online commenters from similar comment threads and forums, and that’s my experience. For example I had an encounter with a guy who wrote very silly militaristic things. Someone said he was a soldier – my experience of Hungarian soldiers was totally different. My gut feeling was that he had never been a soldier, or at most a conscript. But my gut feeling was wrong. He was also a Zionist, and later claimed to have been in Egypt during the 1973 war (or “almost personally have been there, but it’s still a secret” – something like he might’ve worked for Hungarian military intelligence and received reports from Egypt?), and he claimed many demonstrably false things (like the Soviets planned to completely destroy Israel in 1973, but they failed because of the genius of Sharon or something), yet later on I learned that he really was a Hungarian People’s Army officer. (But in the early 1970s I doubt he held a higher rank than captain. He was the military adjutant of the Hungarian president after 1990, and he was promoted to general only in 1990, before which he was still only a colonel.)

    Discount that last anecdote of mine if you will. :-)

    • Replies: @AaronB
  405. @utu

    Yes, it’s possible that Dmitry’s claims are false, though I wouldn’t think that’s the way to bet for most of them. (E.g. looking at the pictures of the airport railway station, it looks fine enough.) It’s also not a good argument when trying to convince Dmitry himself. But in general I agree, Dmitry is also not a very reliable witness despite his frequent visits to Israel. Pseudonymous commenters are never reliable witnesses. I discount most such accounts anyway.

    My argument was basically that even if each of his claims were true, PP’s account could still reflect his honest recollection. Also, it’s possible he consciously distorted his account. But claiming that he invented the whole story out of whole cloth is a very strong claim, in fact, the strongest possible claim one can make after noticing inaccuracies in such an account. Possible? Yes. But Dmitry doesn’t and cannot know it.

  406. AaronB says:
    @reiner Tor

    Not abolish logic. We should take it so seriously that we should follow it till the end.

    You don’t do that. You stop somewhere in the middle. Then you switch to dogmatism. If you followed logic till the end you would understand all the problems with it and why it can’t be an ultimate thing.

    Your position is hardly European. Major mainstream European thinkers like Kant, Hegel, and Schopenhauer followed logic to the end and realized it cannot be an ultimate thing.

    For a while this was massively influential, then you switched to a marginal European tradition, Anglo Saxon empiricism. Which is where you are now. Mixed with outdated Enlightenment Rationalism that had been superseded by later thinkers like Kant.

    Not to mention the Greek Platonic tradition which was massively influential in European thinking and a major driver of the Renaissance or the Christian mystical tradition or the Romantic Movement or the Aryan Indian tradition or the Skeptic tradition or all the latest development in theory of math, philosophy, and quantum science, all taking place in European thought.

    In effect, you cling to an outdated marginal strand of the European tradition which has come to dominate all Europe despite being decisively superseded.

    Why?

    There is something wrong with you. You have a disease.

    Otherwise your analysis is subtle and very good – but its “just” analysis. All you’ve managed to do is introduce reasonable doubt. Its impressive but ultimately empty. Any good Jewish lawyer could do the same. Any malicious Jewish thinker can do this to traditional European culture :) And laugh at people like you who take this kind of thing so seriously because ultimately you don’t taken logic seriously enough to follow it to the end and understand its limitations and uses as s mere technique and how it can’t be the basis for a metaphysics.

    In the real sensuous world of things and humans Dmitry’s method of combining facts and reasons with judgement, intuition, and personal assessments is not just far more persuasive but far more rhetorically effective.

    I don’t discount your anecdote at all :) But it is beside the point.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  407. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    What you call “European” is one strand of European culture that since about 1650 has come to dominate mainstream thought despite being a tiny fragment of the incredibly rich European tradition and despite being decisively superseded by later European thinker.

    Basically, mainstream European metaphysics today is based on classical Newtonian mechanics. It ignores everything that went before or after. No quantum mechanics. No relativity theory. No cutting edge work in mathematical logic. No Kant. 75% of the ancient Greeks ignored. 50% of Christian thinkers ignored. The entire Romantic Movement ignored. The Indian tradition ignored.

    But this is European and I am a Jew trying to undermine your tradition?

    You have undermined your own tradition. I am trying to restore it.

    The past 350 years is not European tradition. And selecting one element within it is not either.

    Something has trapped you and us killing you, and you cannot see it. You double down.

  408. AaronB says:

    To expand on this fascinating theme which ties in directly to Anatoly s post, the real question must be why did the overwhelming majority of highly intelligent white people grow so disillusioned with what had come to be seen as “traditional” European culture that they turned against it en masse. That Jews or blacks did hardly cries out for an explanation .

    That Jews captured the centers of indoctrination is a foreground explanation that focuses on the mechanics of what happened without addressing the actual reasons for why whites came to see their own culture as deeply unsexy and uncool.

    To find the reason we have to go back to the Romantics. The Romantics were already talking about how deeply unsexy and uncool European culture had become and started traveling to backwards places like Italy and Greece to find something they felt was conspicuously lacking back home. And btw, the association with dark and handsome entered European culture for the first time around now.

    The fact is that science and technology, materialism and cold rationality, which came to dominate European culture were felt by the majority of high quality white people to be at once a source of tremendous power and wealth but at the same time deeply unsexy and uncool, and provoked a mass flight of what Anatoly calls high quality people even as the “hard headed” practical men who control society were in no way willing to surrender or even modify such a seeming source of power.

    Today, white culture seems to suffer from a permanent public relations problem, and is incapable of commanding the allegiance of its elite who increasingly turn against it.

    The use of the word “vibrant” to refer to non-white cultures in America must strike any observer as if not exactly accurate to at least express something very true about what is lacking in white American culture. Driving through small towns in America without a history, what stands out is the bleak efficiency of these places, with Wal-Mart’s and vast open roads on an inhuman scale and an absence of sensuous elements that might appeal to the motions or the imagination. This inhuman bleakness is the product of science and cold rationality and must suffer by comparison with the human warmth of even a run down Mexican slum.

    And there is no way to break this logjam. As long as white culture stands for cold rationality, science, materialism, capitalism, and inhuman competition, for individualism and lovelessness, there will be a double standard for white people and members of other races, and the the image of white culture as deeply unsexy and uncool will provoke the overwhelming majority of high quality white people to defect en masse.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  409. @AaronB

    The Romantics were already talking about how deeply unsexy and uncool European culture had become and started traveling to backwards places like Italy and Greece to find something they felt was conspicuously lacking back home

    Didn’t they care more about the ancient past of those places than about their present though?

    And btw, the association with dark and handsome entered European culture for the first time around now.

    What’s that supposed to mean?
    Anyway, as I’ve often stated before here I personally simply don’t find Christianity’s claims to divinely revealed truth convincing, and a certain amount of secularisation is simply inevitable in the modern world unless one wants to create a theocratic system punishing dissent. Uncritical worship of religion (most commonly Catholicism) just because it’s “traditional” is one of the more annoying elements of the right.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @AaronB
  410. @German_reader

    If you had to choose between the present day culture of Germany, or a return to Nazi Germany, what would you choose? If you have a disability that would cause you to be discriminated against in our presumed Nazi Germany, would you still make the same choice?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  411. ON ISRAEL

    Unfortunately my friend was in Israel mainly for academic matters, not tourism.

    Impressions:

    * Tel Aviv – one month, but mostly at university. Didn’t notice it to be particularly clean or dirty; far more noticeable was the amount of people with assault rifles. Nice things about it are the warm sea and the beaches, with many pubs and cafes in the city center. Also noted many former Russians/ex-USSR people, reminded him a bit of Odessa.

    * Jerusalem: Was only there for one day, on a bus tour. Remembers the contrast between Jewish and Muslim sectors – the Jewish one was much cleaner and better organized vs “dirty бардак” of the Muslim one.

    * Beersheba: Was only there for half a day, on business. Small and dirty, though the university had a nicely built marble structure designed by Niemeyer.

    So, inconclusive. I guess I will have to go to Israel myself some day.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  412. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    Not at all, the Romantics loved the the environment they found in the Italy of their time. They wrote glowing travel reports and were excited about the sensuous chaos and the beauty emotion and tradition they found there, all very much alive.

    I’m not at all saying you should believe the truth claims of Christianity if you honestly cannot. It’s not a choice. What I am saying is something far simpler and more primary. If you take cold rationality really seriously you will follow it to the end and realize it’s limitations, like Kant did. This will free you from a self-imposed prison and make you receptive to a much h wider reality. You will realize that limiting your perception of reality to what logic can reveal through the analysis of the raw data of our senses is actually a deeply illogical thing to do and instead of a heroic martyrdom to truth is actually an irrational, emotion driven act of dogmatic stubbornness that cuts you off from true Reality.

    Once you are receptive to non-logical influences and don’t filter them out, a far more complex and interesting reality will come rushing in, and you will restore access to the side of life that makes it worthwhile. If European culture as a whole does this, what has been missing for so long and what has led to the defection of its sensitive and highly intelligent elite will be restored.

    The line about dark men being handsome simply means that it isn’t intrinsic but based on the fact that the fair haired northerners cut themselves off from the interesting and sexy side of life, it’s sensuous and emotional side and the side that gives a sense of meaning – and again not as a heroic martyrdom to truth but as irrational act of dogmatic idiocy.

    So don’t return to Christianity if you can’t – realize the limitations of cold rationality. And see what happens then.

  413. @Daniel Chieh

    If you had to choose between the present day culture of Germany, or a return to Nazi Germany, what would you choose?

    Well, it depends, with the knowledge of today how radical Hitler’s goals really were I wouldn’t prefer Nazi Germany. It would be more difficult from the point of view of 1937 or so (even though one could know a lot about Hitler’s intentions just from reading Mein Kampf).
    As for “discrimination because of disability”, well, “discrimination” is actually a bit weak as a term, since eventually the mentally ill and disabled were just killed in Nazi Germany. I wouldn’t approve of that in any case and it’s certainly one the more convincing reasons against something like the Nazi system (some other aspects like putting communists and socialists in concentration camps aren’t really that objectionable imo).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Daniel Chieh
  414. AaronB says:

    Its also crucial to understand I am not saying logic has zero validity and that it should be completely shut down.

    My main point is that logic cannot be the basis for a metapysic – i.e, for our view of life and the ultimate nature of reality. Logic cannot tell us about ultimate reality, but it can help us figure out rules in the world of every day experience. I am hardly advocating you step in front of a car because logic can’t tell us about reality in an ultimate sense.

    But it’s useful to remember that even in everyday life logic has its limits as quantum mechanism is showing us that even on the material plane objects can act in a completely logic defying manner – particles can be in two places at once.

    In effect, I’m arguing mainstream European culture should catch up with the latest intellectual developments of the European tradition as well as restore contact with the incredibly wider and richer history of European thought.

    Cold rationality has a certain amount of usefulness in very ordinary and mundane aspects of our lives, carefully delimited – within this magic circle it is supreme. The moment we extend the reach of cold rationality to encompass all of reality we merely commit a category error.

    There is nothing “European” about this.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  415. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    Some thoughtful posts of yours here.
    You sure….hehe…. this is the right place for that level ?

    My main point is that logic cannot be the basis for a metapysic – i.e, for our view of life and the ultimate nature of reality. Logic cannot tell us about ultimate reality, but it can help us figure out rules in the world of every day experience.

    Intuition, moments of clarity, mystical experiences even?

    Now, for the first two, they do work quite well in the current, logic based as you say, mode.
    I mean, even in military, that “commander intent” is often done (not always, of course, but often enough) based on that. Intuition/moment of clarity.
    When a Commander gets all the facts and then has to produce The Intent, the idea of “move”, both intuition and moment of clarity often come to play a major role there.
    Same applies to most breakthroughs, really, even in pure scientific world.

    Now, you Jew, apparently? Yes, got that some (hard core) Jews tend to doubt that but let’s pass that.

    Wasn’t Nazi Germany based on that mode of yours (for a lack of better expression)?
    I’ll stick to practical, military world (simpleton approach, but that’s me).

    Wasn’t Hitler famous for his intuition in making his decisions? Defying his “logic” generals and, well, succeeding at first?
    Weren’t those guys deep into occult/whatever?

    That failed against hard core materialism of US and Soviets.

    Failed because the odds were simply too high, or, failed because their very method was wrong?

    Today, it feels that all this globalization is based on that “logic”.
    Nationalism and/or theocracies are based, apparently, on that “blood and soil” with, what, almost mystical connections to….something?

    Yeah, too big topics for this forum and our time/energy.

    You know, maybe the truth is much simpler here.
    Maybe we, humans, simply can’t get it. End of story. Genetics.
    We feel something is missing but we simply can’t get it. Can not……
    Like, I know I am missing being an Olympic athlete. Tough luck. Even in my prime I didn’t have it. The ability, capacity, for that. Or music.Or whatever.
    My point is, we can feel that “missing” part, want it, but simply can not have it.

    All we can is to try to manage the reality as best as we can for survival. And logic is the best for that, apparently. Makes the best weapons and most of it……

    Whoah. Re-read my post. Feels…hehe…out of this place.

    Anyway.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  416. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    So, inconclusive. I guess I will have to go to Israel myself some day.

    Just a couple of things to be careful of when you arrive at the airport.

    Never mention anything about ‘internet’ or ‘blogging’. (Varlamov was almost deported when he talked about that to them – the airport security actually searched online to read his blog, and he doesn’t have this rationalwiki nonsense slandering him like you received).

    Also noted many former Russians/ex-USSR people, reminded him a bit of Odessa.

    Tel Aviv is ok. It is ten times more when you get outside the city into certain suburbs. It’s some areas where your mind plays tricks on you.

    Or sitting next to the groups of teenagers speaking weird Russian (Russian with about 10% Hebrew words).

    It’s a feeling that some scenario from the computer game Command & Conquer has become true. You are visiting a recently conquered new Soviet province in North Africa, and many compatriots have been settled to mix with or administrate the local brown population.

    noticeable was the amount of people with assault rifles.

    In Tel Aviv, it’s soldiers/conscripts. They (soldiers in combat units) have to carry the rifle at all times, even when they’re offduty.

    His train-station was one stop from Camp Rabin (headquarters of the Israeli army).

    -
    -
    -

    Another exotic travelling experience is when your trains (not uncomonly) are completely over-run with soldiers.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  417. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    The assault rifles of the security guards seem unlikely. But then again – maybe he mistook policemen for security guards. Just a quick search found that in late 2015 there were some troubles (stabbing attacks) in Israel, which might explain some enhanced security by assault rifle wielding police (click on the link and you can see them pictured), so does it make it a lie? You haven’t seen any police ever profiling anyone (racially or otherwise), but does it neve

    I was there in beginning of 2016

    Of course, racial profiling happens (e.g.) through the ID cards in West Bank (they see your religion through the number scheme), through the airport (they put different stickers on your passport assessing your risk – the Jewish Israelis will get the lowest risk stickers it’s famous).

    But it’s not possible to conceive through mall security and shop security (where he claims the Jewish Israelis were discriminated relative to him, the funniest part). (It’s either – usually old dudes – checking your bag, or everyone going through the metal detector. In the latter, it’s a queue where everyone goes through – I see soldiers with guns walk around the metal detector). Or wave people at night

    You haven’t seen any police ever profiling anyone (racially or otherwise), but does it never happen?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3275590/Are-holidaymakers-safe-Israel-terrorist-attacks-continue-travel-experts-offer-advice-avoiding-violence.html

    Police standing at the scene of a terrorist attack.

    Maybe he happened to visit North Tel Aviv at a time when there was a stabbing in Tel Aviv (on November 19 it happened), and there was enhanced security in the whole city that day, but because he was in North Tel Aviv, he thought that it was a special North Tel Aviv security.

    Possible for one wrong comment. But how can you manage to make so many backwards comments in every paragraph.

    The thing is if I asked you to write such a text from imagination about a place you have not been (let’s say Chelyabinsk? – if you haven’t been?). You would surely make a lot less mistakes.

    And vice-versa, if I have to write from imagination/internet about a town in Hungary. I’m not sure it’s possible to add more backwards, unless I started telling you about the crocodiles in the rivers.

    You also claim that it’s impossible that Arab-looking Mizrahi ever discriminate against Arab-looking people. Not impossible at all, I gave you a counter-example (of Hungarians in the 1980s discriminating against other Hungarians, benefitting West German tourists),

    Yes you are talking about during communist/Soviet imposition on Hungary.

    It was a very interesting story and information. But it doesn’t relate to an Israel travel – don’t worry the Mizrahi guys are acting fucking in love with themselves.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  418. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    Well it seems to me these larger questions are the most important ones. If we don’t get them right then all these detailed discussions don’t matter.

    250 years ago the Romsntics diagnosed our condition very well. Today, people just talk about the mechanics of the situation. Oh, if we just reclaimed the media and Hollywood we’d be fine.

    But I can’t seem to get smart whites interested in the larger questions. Smart whites will attack me for even raising the larger questions.

    It’s a problem. And it’s very mysterious.

    There might be deeper forces at work here. There is a saying that whom the Gods would destroy they first make mad. It may sound crazy to a materialist, but it has occurred to me that white people may be under some divine curse.

    In that case, my efforts to “awaken” white people are bound to fail. My frustrating and mysterious inability to spark the slightest interest among white people in the larger questions may be running up against forces far stronger than me.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  419. @AaronB

    My frustrating and mysterious inability

    Yes, I’m sure a divine curse is the most likely explanation for that.

    • LOL: Greasy William
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @utu
  420. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    Well, do you have a better explanation :)

  421. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Apparently our Mahayana Tzadik is worst than Steve Sailer. Under the Sailer regime there is some hope because he does not exclude the possibility of materialistic genetic engineering. But in the Shangri-La Shtetl were materialism and logic will be conquered once and for all we will have to resort to, I guess, human sacrifices to implore Gods to lift their divine curse. It is not an accident he wrote it to you. Jews will never forgive Germans. The materialistic ones may keep you going as long a you supply them with needed U-boats and BMW’s but the idealistic ones like our Mahayana Tzadik would like to slaughter you all. You are unredeemable. BTW, we are all Germans.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  422. @Dmitry

    Look, again, you are assuming that any visitor in Israel would perceive things as you do. You don’t leave any wiggle room for anyone misremembering things.

    The fact is, even if I accept every factual statement you write at face value, PP’s description was not very far off the mark, not the crocodiles in your argument. There were relatively small differences, for example

    - lots of assault rifle wielding people, just not the security guys; I guess easy to misremember
    - colorism and racial profiling, and people waved through security checks; I already suggested that perhaps he entered the malls without a bag; so he was waved through by the guards because he had no bags, and he (incorrectly) assumed that this was due to colorism, when in fact it was only due to him not having a bag; by the way soldiers with assault rifles not required security checks is strange, to say the least: it’d suggest that AaronB’s argument about some people being waved through as a big hole in security to be wrong: why don’t terrorists just recruit soldiers (Bedouins do serve with the IDF; and any Arab could serve if he wished to; it’s also possible for them to just plant a bomb in a soldier’s bag, as suggested by AaronB regarding European tourists)
    - train station being dilapidated; when in fact it was the bus station
    - enhanced security in one part of the town, when in fact there was no such thing; could’ve been caused by a number of factors, misremembering, enhanced security on the specific day due to some crime or Palestinian knife attack etc.
    - Ethiopians only speaking Hebrew: it doesn’t matter, the immigrants I met in a European country were also only speaking the local vernacular, and there was still a feeling of camaraderie when they saw my difficulties speaking it
    - you totally disregard my example about Hungary (where the waiters etc. and even the police had practical reasons to discriminate in favor of West Germans: they paid huge tips, and for the police it was difficult administrative work to even touch them), but then you strangely claim that it’s absolutely inconceivable for Mizrahi to do something similar (when they also have practical reasons to do so: European tourists are unlikely to be terrorists), and you also strangely claim that no one who has ever been to Israel would even invent such a story (why not?)

    It’s interesting that you claimed he got “dozens of backwards facts” and “so becomes impossible.” I counted only this six. Was there anything else?

    Even if I accept all of your factual statements at face value, it’s difficult to see why you’d claim to know for sure that he’s never been there.

    [MORE]

    I report bugs to software developers all the time. I often report things like “whenever I do X under Y circumstances Z happens.” I don’t try to consciously lie to them (there’d be no point to it, I’d have zero motivation to lie), and I always sincerely believe that it’s happening “always.” Then they press me for examples, and then I always realize that it was just three example, one of which turns out to be something completely different when I stop to think about it, and so I look into the two examples. One of them often turns out to be a totally different situation on closer inspection, and then they usually tell me to wait for another example before they start investigating. It rarely happens. (And I’m the most cautious of my colleagues, they often tell me first, and I filter out most of their complaints as “look, you didn’t do X, or this was not circumstance Y.”) The human mind is just not a very reliable thing.

    Examples like this are plentiful. You seem to think that if someone writes a few (at most six) things which are more or less wrong then it’s impossible for him to have been there. Interesting logic.

  423. @German_reader

    how radical Hitler’s goals really were

    He’d be long dead now, so maybe it’s irrelevant.

    Daniel’s question was not very precise. For example I think it wouldn’t be a bad thing if Hitler had died sometime in 1939 before the war, and Germany would long term have the 1939 January borders (maybe with Memel and Danzig added), with a strong military and perhaps a thousand nukes, and a zone of influence (but no military bases) between it and Russia, and nationalistic regimes in that zone.

    It’d also have a beneficial effect on other countries (just as the USSR’s very existence was good for common people elsewhere), because elites elsewhere wouldn’t be able to just import millions of Africans lest their white populations turned to National Socialist Germany for inspiration. Unlike the USSR, it wouldn’t be that bad for the majority of its population, and it’d be less likely to just implode under its own weight.

    Or was the question about Nazi Germany winning the war and exterminating all Slavs to the east of it? It depends on how you see the future. If those Slavs are anyway to disappear by the end of the 22nd century, then perhaps it wouldn’t be so bad (Northeastern Germans being closely related to Slavs with a huge partial Slavic ancestry anyway), i.e. they’d be killed but their murderous relatives would prosper – much better than their total disappearance together with the disappearance of all their relatives.

  424. utu says:

    An example of extreme impressions from Israel. Objective/valid/generalized/biased? Just few specifics but overall very negative. Lice in Israel? Most people who commented took it seriously and were upset. Somebody suggest that perhaps it was a satire. But nobody accused the author of not being to Israel and making it up. Personally I think something wrong with the author. Few good points but some ridiculous like about two button flush toilets as if he never saw one before. I am surprised that Forward run it because it is poor quality. His bringing up the freier culture he is talking about the stereotype everybody knows and which probably is true but did he give any example from his personal experience, no. One commenter confirmed the beach story and inconsiderate ball playing.

    The Dirty Truth About Being a Tourist in Israel

    https://forward.com/opinion/130677/the-dirty-truth-about-being-a-tourist-in-israel/

    They tell you that with every other country, you can come and go as you please, but Israel, you can never really leave, because Israel will never leave you

    That’s true, because Israel has really bad lice. It’s true. Of all of Israel’s marvels, its lice have to rank among the top.

    Which brings up a larger point: Israel may be a remarkable country, but frankly, it’s not such a great place for a vacation. I say this with great pain, as a proud Zionist and supporter of Israel.

    Having just visited Israel, let me suggest a few, besides the lice (which probably won’t affect most visitors, unless they keep close quarters with Israeli children).

    For starters, there are the bathrooms. In the rest of the world that is interested in attracting tourists, comfort starts in the commode. Yet in Israel, the hotel bathroom is a chamber of utilitarian horrors

    A society where the worst sin is to be a freier, or sucker, is not cut out to welcome tourists. Because if there is one thing that typifies tourists, it is that they operate with far less knowledge than the natives — the very definition of a potential sucker. That means they are more likely to pay more and get less.

    Even if Israel gets past that flaw in its service culture, it may never move into the category of the Spains, Hawaiis and assorted Rivieras — and maybe that’s okay. After all, Israel is a country to visit not to soothe muscles and bones, but to uplift spirits and stimulate the mind.

  425. @Dmitry

    Thanks for the tips.

    The RationalWiki/SPLC things might indeed prove an irritant if the Israelis put the spotlight on me, I will keep that in mind.

    Israel isn’t at the top of my foreign to-go list (China and Visegrad are far ahead; India, Italy, and Greece) are considerably ahead, but I do hope to visit within the next 5 years.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  426. utu says:

    Another personal impression. Objective? Does he evoke this behavior of Israelis? Does it mean that he wasn’t there?

    https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g293984-i3332-k4032186-Rude_Tel_Aviv_Unpleasant_Tel_Avivians-Tel_Aviv_Tel_Aviv_District.html

    Rude Tel Aviv/Unpleasant Tel Avivians
    Nov 4, 2010, 1:48 AM
    Hello,

    I came to TLV as an expat for two years; after 6 months in the city, I just feel like going back home.

    TLV is an interesting city but..

    People are rude and mean; I have lived all over the world – Germany, Spain,France, Croatia, Japan, Angola and Chile- and I have never seen such a high degree of rudeness and unpoliteness before.

    I get disdainfully treated everytime I try to approach a local or say a couple of words in Hebrew; there’s nothing like a Tel Avivian ( waiter; bankclerk or nextdoor neighbour) to make you feel uncomfortable.

    I am very disappointed because I did have high expectations; now, I do not know how I am going to face the 1 and 1/2 years that I have ahead of me.

    My group of friends here ( 60 % Europeans; 40% Northamericans) have the very same impression;like a Swedish friend of mine says, ” this is probably a city full of spoiled adults”.

    Why is everyone so mean to foreigners?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  427. AaronB says:
    @utu

    I have learned, utu, the world does not forgive spiritual people. People do not forgive those who disturb their complacency, and tell them they must change. They kick and scream and struggle.

    But it is necessary, utu, it is necessary.

    I will not abandon you, my dear utu – my great eye of compassion sees even you!

  428. @German_reader

    Interesting- I admit that part of me thought that you would have approved and it certainly was interesting that such mass movements primarily offer suffering, warfare and sacrifice but nonetheless gain huge purchase among the population – which highly suggests that the desire for meaning in many individuals is indeed tied to a desire for suffering and sacrifice and through which they can express their contribution to the world, whether it is for the Fatherland or for “human rights.”

    I think its deeply seated in human nature.

    The argument that Germans seem fond of unsustainable extremism to any movement they pursue – an argument I think you made(?) – seems to be more true now. It is interesting, given the stereotype of Germans being primarily practical and pragmatic, they do seem to often pursue goals which are not per se Romantic(emotionality for its own sake) but some form of sharp idealism of how the world “should be” and damn it if reality gets in the way.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @reiner Tor
  429. @Daniel Chieh

    I admit that part of me thought that you would have approved

    I’m not that extreme.

    it certainly was interesting that such mass movements primarily offer suffering, warfare and sacrifice but nonetheless gain huge purchase among the population

    That was only part of it. Hitler also offered a hugely attractive vision, a Volksgemeinschaft (“a national community”, though the term can’t really be translated into English) transcending all previous class divisions and based on solidarity between all parts of the German Volk (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterhilfswerk ). There was a strong welfare aspect, iirc Goebbels devoted thought to the German pensions system even during the war. Also promises of material improvement for the common man. Just think of the Volkswagen, basically a promise of making an American lifestyle possible for Germans. Also projects like Kraft durch Freude vacations on cruiseships like the Wilhelm Gustloff. All that against the background of the experience of mass unemployment and mass immiseration in the last years of the Weimar republic. Unless you were a Jew or a gypsy and therefore excluded from the Volksgemeinschaft for racial reasons, it wasn’t unreasonable to believe that Nazism actually could mean a better life for yourself.
    Hitler also didn’t explicitly state in the 1930s that he intended to start a major war in any case, rather presenting himself as a man of peace who just wanted a strong Germany and revision of the terms of Versailles (which wasn’t the same thing as trying to conquer a racial empire up to the Urals).

    It is interesting, given the stereotype of Germans being primarily practical and pragmatic

    They’re only practical and pragmatic in regards to technology, their political intelligence is zero (though tbh I’m hardly impressed by that of English-speaking peoples either nowadays).

  430. @Daniel Chieh

    I think Frederic Spotts made (or quoted) the observation in his Hitler and the Power of Aesthetics that in a sense Nazism was the culmination of German Romanticism, ultimately offering nothing but death and sacrifice.

    There’s certainly something attractive in such an ideology, and though it did promise improved material living standards, it didn’t actually provide them to the middle class (its main support), instead it increased the living standards of the working class (which didn’t support it).

  431. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    No, I agree with your link – I find peasant culture and without the manners are not there and is actually something stressful (compared to Western metropolitan places where people have this public/private distinction).

    Some other things that stress me there – dog shit on the pavement (every other woman there is walking with a dog, and most seem too lazy to pick up the dog shit), people throwing garbage on the ground (this is less popular hobby than in Russia though, but it’s not like the West where people use dustbins), graffiti everywhere, the feeling of the slums about to collapse on your head, and the construction sites everywhere (dust, smoke, noise, chaotic building, etc). You also have constantly Moroccan guys playing loud middle eastern music, and either shouting at or hugging each other.

    I notice the Middle Eastern guys are often very cold and rude the first time they serve you. But then the second time when they recognize you, they can become over friendly – which is also a bit annoying for me.

    The reverse side of this kind of peasant personality is actually very charming for me – people sit all over the pavements, people wear in any clothes they like, children are running unsupervised noisily over the cities (this could be quite annoying), there is feeling of safety and absence of any crime like a kind of provincialism.

    • Replies: @utu
  432. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Israel isn’t at the top of my foreign to-go list (China and Visegrad are far ahead; India, Italy, and Greece) are considerably ahead, but I do hope to visit within the next 5 years.

    Thanks.

    To add to your list, I think Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, – would make very interesting blog posts and it’s easy to get there.

    Also Crimea is now in transformation. Did you see Varlamov’s posts this week about the airport

    https://varlamov.ru/2955394.html

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @AP
  433. @Dmitry

    I haven’t actually been following Varlamov, though ok, I just put his blog into my blog reader.

    I do however know from friends that the new Simferopol airport looks and functions wonderfully, and more generally (if more from statistics), that the infrastructure there is improving at a rapid pace.

    There are huge amounts of places that I want to visit in Russia, I have at least as many to-go places here as in the rest of the world.

    * Novgorod (heartland of Russian civilization, disgraceful that I haven’t been there yet, but good chance I’ll remedy that this summer)
    * Crimea
    * The LDNR (I was on the verge of visiting this January, but the trip was cancelled at the last minute due to political/military issues)
    * I want to redo the Golden Ring, 15 years hence. Compare and contrast.
    * Kazan
    * Ekaterinburg
    * Some of the Siberian nature places (esp. Kamchatka)
    * Dagestan

    In the Near Abroad, I am more interested in Central Asia, esp. Uzbekistan, than the South Caucasus.

    I would also visit the Ukraine but not now for obvious political reasons.

    Mongolia and DPRK are also places I would moderately like to visit.

    • Replies: @songbird
  434. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Good for Crimea. Moscow has improved a lot, and it looks like Russia is putting effort and money into turning Crimea into a showcase.

    Varlamov was brave enough to visit Lviv in 2014 (it has gotten even better since then) and liked what he saw:

    https://varlamov.ru/1085938.html

    His comments about Banderism and about how he as a Russian was treated there:

    https://varlamov.ru/1083984.html

    Even “bad Lviv” wasn’t so bad:

    https://varlamov.ru/1085062.html

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  435. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    There are two sides to everything. There are places in the US where people are so polite that I find them suffocating. I like when there is some directness and even bluntness or brusqueness but when at the same time people are helpful. Too polite people sometimes waste your time because they can’t bring themselves to saying I do not know I can’t help you.

  436. songbird says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I’d be kind of frightened to visit the DPRK, as an American. I’d probably do it, if I were Russian or Chinese though.

    I used to know an old lady whose son was on the USS Pueblo.

  437. Dmitry says:

    If I have a choose, I prefer polite strangers to not polite strangers – it puts me unconsciously in a better mood even without knowing it (and even if it’s fake), when e.g. the shop assistants smile (as happens in some countries) or people will hold the door open.

    On the other hand, it can surely be an additional stress, that you are expected to be polite to people, or to smile at people, even if you are in a bad mood.

    It’s a private/public distinction (that in public you have to behave in a certain way, even if it is not how you really feel).

    It’s very interesting difference between countries in this.

    -
    On the website ‘Quora.com’ there is an interesting debate with a lot of people discussing about the smiling issue in relation to Americans smiling unusually often.

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Russians-rarely-smile-What-is-considered-a-smile-in-Russia-How-do-you-define-a-smile-in-Russia-if-you-are-not-a-native

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @melanf
  438. @Dmitry

    My take is that smiling in public, holding the doors, telling someone their rucksack is open, etc. is a high-trust SWPL thing.

    You don’t get so much of that in prole rustbelts in the Anglosphere.

    You do however now get a lot of that in Moscow (if not, say, Volokolamsk). And you will get a lot more of that in the global upper crust as the SWPL class continues to homogenize globally.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  439. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Surely, he should fall in love with Lvov.

    He is a connoisseur/aesthete of cities, and he is visiting one of the Europe’s more architecturally rich and beautiful (in the historic parts) cities.

    It’s like a sushi blogger reporting on Japan.

    The city is a beauty. But (unusually) where the blogs of the economists or political analysts will write an almost completely opposite (negative) report on the same city compared to the architect.

    • Replies: @AP
  440. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    You think that it could be related to social class in America?

    -
    This woman is unable to explain anything – but the data ( she tries to explain) is interesting.

  441. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    The city is a beauty. But (unusually) where the blogs of the economists or political analysts will write an almost completely opposite (negative) report on the same city compared to the architect.

    Russian nationalist or statist blogs or political analysts? That would be as objective as an American neocon’s descriptions of Russia’s economy or politics.

    Lviv is generally considered to have Ukraine’s highest quality of life.

    Here is an article even from 2015:

    https://www.economist.com/free-exchange/2016/01/20/the-ukrainian-economy-is-not-terrible-everywhere

    Spiegel (about the mayor, but highlights that the city is functioning well):

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/ukraine-political-corruption-targeted-by-mayor-of-lviv-a-1091846.html

    Ranked as one of the top 7 Slavic cities to live in:

    https://www.slavorum.org/top-slavic-cities-you-should-consider-to-make-your-permanent-home/

    Article about the garbage problem created by Poroshenko to punish Lviv’s mayor highlights the city’s successful nature (and Poroshenko’s corruption):

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ukraines-most-beautiful-city-attacked-by-corrupt-forces_us_5957aa54e4b0f078efd98a50

    “Lviv is Ukraine’s most beautiful city, an exquisite UNESCO World Heritage site that has survived attacks and changed hands for seven centuries.

    The city is a successful IT hub and its hotels, restaurants, and architecture attract 2.5 million visitors a year. Since 2006, its reform-minded mayor and city council have upgraded infrastructure and enticed industry to the region by protecting them from corruption. Some fifty-four manufacturers have set up operations recently, creating 12,000 jobs in 2016 alone. ”

    etc. etc.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  442. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    On the website ‘Quora.com’ there is an interesting debate with a lot of people discussing about the smiling issue in relation to Americans smiling unusually often.

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Russians-rarely-smile-What-is-considered-a-smile-in-Russia-How-do-you-define-a-smile-in-Russia-if-you-are-not-a-native

    This discussion is mostly nonsense created by Russia immigrants from the liberal intelligentsia. These people feel themselves losers, and as a result try to get psychological rehabilitation telling how terrible life in Russia.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
    , @Dmitry
  443. Pavlo says:
    @melanf

    The Russians I know smile often, even at perfect strangers.

    Perhaps non-churchgoers are different.

    Anyway, Quora is a retarded forum for arseholes, and most of its users should be euthanised.

  444. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    I think the commentators are mainly Americans. (For one of them it says they are the writer for the Economist).

    The reality is that America is probably in the unusual (from international perspective) situation that there is an unspoken culture that you are expected to smile at strangers.

    Interestingly, googling studies of (what should be the underlying psychological trait of politeness/smiling) – ‘agreeableness’, Americans score relatively lower low, and are less agreeable than Russia.

    The trait is here on the x-axis

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  445. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Average salary in Lvov at the end of 2017,* is reportedly $244 a month.

    It’s a lot lower than Kiev (with $410 a month), but a little higher than Kharkov and Odessa.

    By comparison, the average salary in Chelyabinsk is around $400 a month.

    So (superficially and ignoring exchange rate/cost of living difference) Lvov is significantly poorer even than a kind of harsh city like Chelyabinsk (which itself is not far behind Kiev).

    -

    Obviously there are differences in exchange rates and costs of living, but I’m not sure this cannot be ‘stretched’ indefinitely.

    E.g. The average salary in Ekaterinburg is $667 – maybe cost of living or exchange rate differences can stretch Kiev salaries this high?

    But if cost of living or exchange rate differences stretched Kiev salaries to the same level as Ekaterinburg, you would will have Lvov salaries similar to Chelyabinsk

    -
    *

    http://reconomica.ru/%D1%8D%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0/%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0/%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8F%D1%8F-%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5/

    • Replies: @AP
  446. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Oops I can’t edit the comment.

    The trait is on the x-axis in this diagram (the origin of the study is reported in the newspaper Daily Mail). The Russian population is allegedly slightly higher in the psychology trait ‘agreeableness’ than the United States.

  447. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Food is about half as expensive in Lviv as in Chelyabinsk, but rent is more expensive.

    I suspect Lviv is improving at a faster rate.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  448. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Chelyabinsk salaries are 64% higher than Lvov salaries. Sure, it is just nominal terms.

    Let’s say that adjustments for cost of living and exchange rates managed (debatable, but anyway) to somehow put Lvov on the same level as Chelyabinsk

    In the general view, nobody thinks Chelyabinsk is a economic success story – rather the opposite.

    Everyone is complaining about the city’s economic situation, all the time. People are not going saying “Chelyabinsk is a economic success story”.

    So let’s assess objectively… Lvov is at best on the level of Chelyabinsk socioeconomically – i.e. far from a very strong economic situation. And there’s a good chance (from the data) it is lower than Chelyabinsk economically.

    Q.E.D. Lvov is comparatively bad economically.

    -

    Now in plenty of other ways it is surely very nice and a great place. Obviously it is beautiful architecturally. One of the best cities to visit in Europe, etc. (But the economic situation for local residents – no).

    -

    Some funny stuff in relation to talking about Israel earlier in this topic – the last governor of Chelyabinsk region (Mikhail Yurevich), has recently “immigrated” to Israel in order to flee from prosecution for corruption. This is the governor who used to literally order information reporting negative comments about the city deleted from the internet (taken down by yandex).

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