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Arpad Virag – Eastern Europe and the Swine Right

Although I am the furthest thing from a Croatia/Balkan expert, all his observations strike me as true in… well, pretty much every country I have looked at (from the US, to France, to Germany, to Russia, intelligence favors liberalism and discriminates against nationalism), so I assume they are true in general.

Core theses:

  1. Eastern Europe is already far more ruled by progressives (Blue Empire, Cathedral, Polygon, George Soros…) than most on the Right are willing to admit;
  2. The Left holds a monopoly on respectable intellectual positions partially because of the miserable state of the Right;

In support for #1:

How do Croats feel about gay marriage and LGBT rights? Nominally, they resist, but the gay pride parade in Zagreb is not only huge, but even the most fearless football hooligans were easily convinced not to give any resistance to the new wave of human rights. Everyone hip in Zagreb has a gay friend. …

And how are the rest of the countries around doing? Guess .

These are all individual, anecdotal evidence, dealing with only one small country – you may take them seriously or not, but don’t forget the good ol’ Moldbuggian wisdom – trends among the tiny elite is what shapes the future, not the bleating of millions of sheep. Tea Party movement is nonexistent today, while the editors of NYT aren’t exactly dealing with plummeting readership.

All of this is backed up by opinion polls.

One of my frequent arguments has been is that Eastern Europe was essentially kept in an ideological “freezer” for half a century under Communism. This opened the floodgates for the seepage of American soft power and values.

The coming decades there will basically involve a dynamic struggle between continued cultural Americanization, and resurgent nationalism based on observing the increasingly evident failure of the multiculturalism experiment in Western Europe.

In support for #2:

Definition of the Swine Right:

The rightist Swine is a nominally conservative type who is openly promoting traditional values such as God, homeland and family but in reality he’s a treacherous calculated Machiavellian type of low moral virtue, high time preference and low loyalty. The same way a leftist activist is constantly talking about the oppressed proletariat and while raising his own political power and enriching himself with other people’s money, the Swine of the Right is constantly talking about the virtue of raising a family, the depth of his faith and the love of his homeland, and at the same time using every possible opportunity to raise his political power and wealth in the most corrupt and criminal way possible, regardless of the consequence to the things he nominally holds dear. The Swine usually has very little manners, and behaves like a brute despite of his education. In short, The Swine is a swindler and a charlatan who successfully uses right wing rhetoric to expand his wealth and political power. In a way, he is either a communist apparatchik who successfully replaced the hammer and a sickle with the cross or the village brute who finds it very convenient to sit in the first row on a Sunday mass.

The author illustrates this behavior using a number of Croatian political figures, necessarily obscure to non-Croatians, but I think we all know their equivalents in our own countries

And even at the highest levels – Trump, Orban, Putin… one can’t deny that this describes all of them to at least some extent.

Imagine some smart college kid watching all this. On one hand, he sees The World League of Whores and Sodomites, but on the other fanged IQ90 swine who would gladly conscript him and have him die in trenches for a cause such as the glory of our national being, while their cousins are making millions selling weapons to the state. Some of them are lucky enough to be raised in an intellectually healthy environment and to see a possible alternative to progressive madness. However, a lot of them are simply not. If you’re a bookish guy from the countryside and came to the capital as a talented STEM student, there’s quite a large possibility that your new college friends are much nicer and much more intelligent than your village chief, parish priest or your high school history professor.

The Left often paints a picture of the Swine as a rural brutish chief, a member of HDZ or HSP with a fake high school diploma who wants to push his son through some joke of a private college and in the local government, and arrange sweet deals for his best mate just happens to own a construction company. While that is not so far from the truth, his leftist counterpart differs only in speaking fluent English, having a liberal arts college diploma and arranging sweet deals for his friends in NGOs. One will be ripping buttons off his shirt while drinking brandy and listening to turbo-folk, while the other one will be sipping craft beers while swinging hips to Depeche Mode. As you may or may not notice from my description, the latter is much much more high status. And although the level of criminality is roughly equal, the latter type is a far smoother criminal.

Some say we should simply apply the very well known leftist policy of no enemies to the left, no friends to the right – and they couldn’t be more wrong. Switching to no enemies to the right, is a classical fallacy of trying to imitate leftists policy (entropy) in order to create right wing results (order).

After a couple of beers the other night, a thought about this occurred: the classical no enemies quote is referring to the political spectrum, however it’s much more applicable to the IQ distribution: no loyalty to the left, no enemies to the right sounds like a viable Machiavellian solution. You cannot make friends with IQ80 people, regardless of them being Stormfront or BLM, because their time preference is way too high. And you should not make enemies out of IQ140 people because they will see to it that IQ80 crowd can crush you, see you driven before them and hear the lamentation of your women. Loyalty requires both sides to cooperate.

But the Right’s human capital problem makes it very hard to attract the high IQ, which results in Swine leaders, which lowers the prestige associated with being on the Right, exacerbating the human capital problem even further, etc.

So here’s a terrible thought for ya – from the perspective of a young man in Eastern Europe who wants peace, prosperity and order, the rule of the Cathedral might be a healthy alternative to the powers surrounding him. As long as a significant part of the Right acts like the above mentioned Swine, the Left will be even more than secure in it’s picture of intellectual and moral superiority.

Which is why I’m pretty skeptical about nationalism’s prospects in the long-term.

Note that neoliberalism.txt is good at weathering shocks. There are still many, many decades before the West turns into some combination of Beirut and Port-au-Prince, even under the most pessimistic scenarios.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Eastern Europe, Nationalism 
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  1. songbird says:

    If one looks at the political leaders of the Left – one does not notice a lot of human capital either. The essential difficulty is not one of human capital, IMO, but rather that Leftism is self-organizing. It is, in my view, an evolutionary strategy based on group power dynamics vs. the individual. It is as much built around groups as it is built around redistribution.

    See how readily the Left coalesces around leaders – the cult of personality – from Lenin to Mao to Jim Jones to Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. There is no comparison: it is primarily a leftist trait. See how they virtue signal – no comparison. Leftists are often more verbal. Words are good for organizing groups to take things. Not so good when you are trying to keep what is yours, as an individual against a group determined to take it. That is where violence prevails – but we are peaceful people nowadays.

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  2. Mr. XYZ says:

    : Do you think that this trend is true for Israel as well?

    I mean, with the possible exception of ex-USSR immigrants to Israel, the most nationalistic Israelis appear to have lower IQs (on average, based on anecdotal evidence). However, at the same time, left-wing Israelis have also done a fair share of panicking about the risk of Israel losing its Jewish majority. Plus, the longer that the occupation of the West Bank (which right-wing Israelis are more willing to support) remains in place, the greater the likelihood that Israel will one day annex the West Bank and be forced to grant Israeli citizenship to the Palestinian Arabs who are living there. Thus, with their own policies, right-wing Israelis might ironically be setting the stage for Israel to eventually see a significant reduction in its Jewish majority (percentage-wise, that is).

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    @Anatoly Karlin: Do you think that this trend is true for Israel as well?

    I mean, with the possible exception of ex-USSR immigrants to Israel, the most nationalistic Israelis appear to have lower IQs (on average, based on anecdotal evidence). However, at the same time, left-wing Israelis have also done a fair share of panicking about the risk of Israel losing its Jewish majority. Plus, the longer that the occupation of the West Bank (which right-wing Israelis are more willing to support) remains in place, the greater the likelihood that Israel will one day annex the West Bank and be forced to grant Israeli citizenship to the Palestinian Arabs who are living there. Thus, with their own policies, right-wing Israelis might ironically be setting the stage for Israel to eventually see a significant reduction in its Jewish majority (percentage-wise, that is).

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?
     

    In Israel, it is famous, there's supposedly a strong relation between the established upper class (that immigrated from Europe) and the more liberal viewpoints. Until maybe the 1990s, you surely would even find for Israelis a strong statistical correlation between lightness of skin and hair tones, and political views (lighter people would correlate positively with liberal views, due to the historical voting patterns between the demographics).

    However, since the 1990s, there are more things that complicate it, like increase in size of the multi-ethnic religious national movement, and the arrival of "Sausage Aliyah" of the 1990s which demographically has a high ratio of right-wing, authoritarian, angry people from every most backward parts of the Former Soviet Union, but also includes many academically qualified people.

    The interesting thing was the arrival of 'Camembert Aliyah' of the recent years, which is again relatively liberal middle class people from Moscow.

    There was reported that Camembert Aliyah has in general, on a political and aesthetic level, has been completely shocked by the Sausage aliyah.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. Mr. XYZ says:

    Also, as a side note, I’m not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people) and a change of attitudes on Third World immigration. Indeed, I would think that even liberal Eastern Europeans would be aware of the failure of the multicultural experiment in Western Europe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Spisarevski

    I’m not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people)

     

    There is no difference. It's all one huge slippery slope, which contrary to leftist assertions is not a "fallacy". There is also zero benefit to be had from sodomite "marriage", giving defective freaks the same rights and recognition as normal families and allowing them to adopt children.

    Tolerance towards disgusting faggots appears together and in parallel with vegan protests, poison colored hair, aping everything western SJWs do, historic revisionism in history textbooks, media censorship, and ever more shitskin faces that I see every day in the Sofia metro.

    A few days ago there was also a video of a feral negress beating up a man in public transport apparently because he used the standard Bulgarian word for a black woman. It's like I was watching a video from Sweden or Britbongistan - some white cuck taking abuse and other people around him sitting uselessly. Never thought I would see something like this here.

    https://i.imgur.com/q1VUrLb.jpg
    , @BlackFlag
    You would think the West would be aware of failures in Rhodesia, South Africa, Detroit, Baltimore, and Venezuela but it matters not.
    , @Hokie
    Visiting Ukraine recently, it was deeply depressing to see how many Africans have settled in Kiev. Even smaller cities like Poltava had a fair number of Africans. Speaking to a few, pretty much all of them originally arrived as students.

    Since Ukraine's population has been shrinking, the universities have been recruiting foreigners to fill spots. Africans, particularly Igbo from Nigeria, are the largest group, also southern Indians are pretty common too. Kiev Polytechnic Institute's students are probably only about 80% white.

    The same worship of African dancing and music that pollutes America is being introduced there too. At KPI, there was an obese African-American woman teaching a few dozen white students a dance to a rap song that is popular in America.

    Most distressing, there is giant mural of Bob Marley and some other African figures from the 1960s USA counterculture two doors down from the Cossack House (a CasaPound type building a few hundred feet from Maidan). When we were visiting the Ukrainian nationalists there, they didn't seemed to concerned, and cared a lot more about Donetsk and Crimea than packs of Africans roaming around Maidan. The African quarter in the Solomonskaya district also didn't draw any concern from them, even though the nationalist rally was about half a kilometer away.

    The Polish nationalists there seemed pretty pessimistic too. They said that the courts and schools were polluted with leftist ideology just like America in the 1950s, and figured that their successors in 20-30 years would destroy their country, just like our leaders did in America.

    Hopefully you are right, but the trends don't seem promising

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  4. Dmitry says:

    A little offtopic:

    Toronto Russian (a user here – I’m not sure if he is a psychologist or not) posted something in response to me a few weeks ago, that psychologists nowadays use a personality trait called ‘openness to experience’ as something that correlates with liberalism to some extent.

    This is based on the ‘Five Factor Model’, which I am not qualified in the field to determine if it’s bullshit or not.

    Anyway according to the Wikipedia article on this subject, he is right that it correlates to some extent with liberalism. And amusingly- in relation to the Chad vs Virgin memes that have taken over our forum – the personality trait also correlated to how much sex you have:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openness_to_experience#Sexuality

    Psychology does seem useful in explaining why all the political shit clusters together, and we can’t just separate the important issues and talk about them in a rational way – i.e. that wanting to stop open border immigration is not relating to ‘support for traditionalist morality’.

    Read More
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  5. I can offer a number of solutions. Well, those won’t be solutions, but something to do to make each of us more suited to tackle the issues.

    One such improvement is cold showers and winter swimming.

    I used to find it difficult to go into the 26 or 27 Celsius pool of most swimming pools. I found 24 Celsius water extremely cold. But it’s easy to train. In fact, if you want to be heterosexual, you need to train yourself for it. Also there are health benefits, but wouldn’t it be just super cool to be able to swim in 3 Celsius water?

    I used to do it in dumb ways for years (my motto was “it takes at least an hour to look up how it needs to be done; why not waste a few years doing it the wrong way?”), but here I will give you how it needs to be done.

    So, the best thing is cold showers. Do it in the morning. Never in the evening. (Yes, I did it in the evening, because that’s when I was taking showers before. It disturbs your sleep if done in the evening.) Also, always before a workout. Never after. Cold bath or cold shower after workouts slows muscle growth. (Yes, it looked like a good idea to cool myself down after a workout.)

    The important thing is breathing. You should avoid hyperventilating while under a cold shower. Wim Hof proposes hyperventilating before, and slowing down breathing while under the cold shower. Most people (including currently myself – I’m working on my breathing) are hyperventilating by default, so I currently don’t do that, but maybe later I’ll come around to that. Wim Hof, after all, climbed the Everest without oxygen mask or wearing proper clothes (I mean, in swimming trunks), and I didn’t, so what do I know? Anyway, the way to slow down your breathing should be to just relax your diaphragm and in general try to relax.

    How to start? The first week will be easy. Do warm showers, very warm ones, for as long as you like. Then, after you finished, turn the water away from you, and turn it to the very coldest. Wait until it gets very cold. Then you have to do ten seconds under the cold water. Start with your feet, legs, then arms, then body and head. All the while try to breathe slowly, with relaxed diaphragm. After that, best to finish and dry yourself.

    The second week will be a bit more difficult. You start ten seconds under the cold water. Again, your feet, legs, arms, body and head. All the while breathing slowly, with relaxed diaphragm. Then warm shower, as long as you like. Then, you’ll have to finish with the cold, again ten seconds.

    The third week (you can progress a little slower, nobody will be watching) you need to get to thirty seconds, both start and finish. In between the long warm shower.

    You can stay here for a long time. The eventual goal is for ten minutes constant cold shower. I don’t have time for this anyway, so thirty-thirty seconds is good for the moment.

    Going into cold water will get noticeably easier. After a few months (the dumb way, bad breathing included) I did a winter swim at an event (there are a few such events in every country), the first second felt bad, but after that the adrenaline makes it okay. Believe me, the best thing is jumping into the water. Slowly getting into cold water is something I still find unpleasant. Jumping takes just one second of unpleasantness. (Besides, jumping is the heterosexual way.)

    You are an ambassador of the alt-right. Be heterosexual! Do cold showers!

    Read More
    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    https://www.wimhofmethod.com
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. @reiner Tor
    I can offer a number of solutions. Well, those won’t be solutions, but something to do to make each of us more suited to tackle the issues.

    One such improvement is cold showers and winter swimming.

    I used to find it difficult to go into the 26 or 27 Celsius pool of most swimming pools. I found 24 Celsius water extremely cold. But it’s easy to train. In fact, if you want to be heterosexual, you need to train yourself for it. Also there are health benefits, but wouldn’t it be just super cool to be able to swim in 3 Celsius water?

    I used to do it in dumb ways for years (my motto was “it takes at least an hour to look up how it needs to be done; why not waste a few years doing it the wrong way?”), but here I will give you how it needs to be done.

    So, the best thing is cold showers. Do it in the morning. Never in the evening. (Yes, I did it in the evening, because that’s when I was taking showers before. It disturbs your sleep if done in the evening.) Also, always before a workout. Never after. Cold bath or cold shower after workouts slows muscle growth. (Yes, it looked like a good idea to cool myself down after a workout.)

    The important thing is breathing. You should avoid hyperventilating while under a cold shower. Wim Hof proposes hyperventilating before, and slowing down breathing while under the cold shower. Most people (including currently myself - I’m working on my breathing) are hyperventilating by default, so I currently don’t do that, but maybe later I’ll come around to that. Wim Hof, after all, climbed the Everest without oxygen mask or wearing proper clothes (I mean, in swimming trunks), and I didn’t, so what do I know? Anyway, the way to slow down your breathing should be to just relax your diaphragm and in general try to relax.

    How to start? The first week will be easy. Do warm showers, very warm ones, for as long as you like. Then, after you finished, turn the water away from you, and turn it to the very coldest. Wait until it gets very cold. Then you have to do ten seconds under the cold water. Start with your feet, legs, then arms, then body and head. All the while try to breathe slowly, with relaxed diaphragm. After that, best to finish and dry yourself.

    The second week will be a bit more difficult. You start ten seconds under the cold water. Again, your feet, legs, arms, body and head. All the while breathing slowly, with relaxed diaphragm. Then warm shower, as long as you like. Then, you’ll have to finish with the cold, again ten seconds.

    The third week (you can progress a little slower, nobody will be watching) you need to get to thirty seconds, both start and finish. In between the long warm shower.

    You can stay here for a long time. The eventual goal is for ten minutes constant cold shower. I don’t have time for this anyway, so thirty-thirty seconds is good for the moment.

    Going into cold water will get noticeably easier. After a few months (the dumb way, bad breathing included) I did a winter swim at an event (there are a few such events in every country), the first second felt bad, but after that the adrenaline makes it okay. Believe me, the best thing is jumping into the water. Slowly getting into cold water is something I still find unpleasant. Jumping takes just one second of unpleasantness. (Besides, jumping is the heterosexual way.)

    You are an ambassador of the alt-right. Be heterosexual! Do cold showers!
    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. @Mr. XYZ
    Also, as a side note, I'm not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people) and a change of attitudes on Third World immigration. Indeed, I would think that even liberal Eastern Europeans would be aware of the failure of the multicultural experiment in Western Europe.

    I’m not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people)

    There is no difference. It’s all one huge slippery slope, which contrary to leftist assertions is not a “fallacy”. There is also zero benefit to be had from sodomite “marriage”, giving defective freaks the same rights and recognition as normal families and allowing them to adopt children.

    Tolerance towards disgusting faggots appears together and in parallel with vegan protests, poison colored hair, aping everything western SJWs do, historic revisionism in history textbooks, media censorship, and ever more shitskin faces that I see every day in the Sofia metro.

    A few days ago there was also a video of a feral negress beating up a man in public transport apparently because he used the standard Bulgarian word for a black woman. It’s like I was watching a video from Sweden or Britbongistan – some white cuck taking abuse and other people around him sitting uselessly. Never thought I would see something like this here.

    Read More
    • Agree: Daniel Chieh, dfordoom
    • Replies: @German_reader
    You've got Africans in Bulgaria? Is one nowhere safe from them?
    , @BlackFlag
    Europeans are simply too inhibited. It's probably a good trait for individuals but leads to disastrous results for the group.

    One solution if to medicate this. Imagine if all the right were completely unhibited for a week. It could lead to the critical mass of dissent/rebellion to turn the tired as this is a positive feedback dynamic. Or are there just not enough numbers?
    , @gate666
    donald trump supported gay marriage .
    , @Erik Sieven
    I could have easily imagined something like this to happen in countries like Croatia. But Bulgaria? That's sad.
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  8. @Spisarevski

    I’m not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people)

     

    There is no difference. It's all one huge slippery slope, which contrary to leftist assertions is not a "fallacy". There is also zero benefit to be had from sodomite "marriage", giving defective freaks the same rights and recognition as normal families and allowing them to adopt children.

    Tolerance towards disgusting faggots appears together and in parallel with vegan protests, poison colored hair, aping everything western SJWs do, historic revisionism in history textbooks, media censorship, and ever more shitskin faces that I see every day in the Sofia metro.

    A few days ago there was also a video of a feral negress beating up a man in public transport apparently because he used the standard Bulgarian word for a black woman. It's like I was watching a video from Sweden or Britbongistan - some white cuck taking abuse and other people around him sitting uselessly. Never thought I would see something like this here.

    https://i.imgur.com/q1VUrLb.jpg

    You’ve got Africans in Bulgaria? Is one nowhere safe from them?

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    I shall answer with another question: is there any place worse than sub-Saharan Africa (aside from Haiti)?

    They migrate into South Africa because it is better than where they came from. Also, into North Africa and even - this is hardest to believe but true - into Yemen. All of Europe is at risk. The welfare just makes certain areas preferential, but no area is safe - not even the Donbass - because every area is better.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. XYZ
    @Anatoly Karlin: Do you think that this trend is true for Israel as well?

    I mean, with the possible exception of ex-USSR immigrants to Israel, the most nationalistic Israelis appear to have lower IQs (on average, based on anecdotal evidence). However, at the same time, left-wing Israelis have also done a fair share of panicking about the risk of Israel losing its Jewish majority. Plus, the longer that the occupation of the West Bank (which right-wing Israelis are more willing to support) remains in place, the greater the likelihood that Israel will one day annex the West Bank and be forced to grant Israeli citizenship to the Palestinian Arabs who are living there. Thus, with their own policies, right-wing Israelis might ironically be setting the stage for Israel to eventually see a significant reduction in its Jewish majority (percentage-wise, that is).

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?

    : Do you think that this trend is true for Israel as well?

    I mean, with the possible exception of ex-USSR immigrants to Israel, the most nationalistic Israelis appear to have lower IQs (on average, based on anecdotal evidence). However, at the same time, left-wing Israelis have also done a fair share of panicking about the risk of Israel losing its Jewish majority. Plus, the longer that the occupation of the West Bank (which right-wing Israelis are more willing to support) remains in place, the greater the likelihood that Israel will one day annex the West Bank and be forced to grant Israeli citizenship to the Palestinian Arabs who are living there. Thus, with their own policies, right-wing Israelis might ironically be setting the stage for Israel to eventually see a significant reduction in its Jewish majority (percentage-wise, that is).

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?

    In Israel, it is famous, there’s supposedly a strong relation between the established upper class (that immigrated from Europe) and the more liberal viewpoints. Until maybe the 1990s, you surely would even find for Israelis a strong statistical correlation between lightness of skin and hair tones, and political views (lighter people would correlate positively with liberal views, due to the historical voting patterns between the demographics).

    However, since the 1990s, there are more things that complicate it, like increase in size of the multi-ethnic religious national movement, and the arrival of “Sausage Aliyah” of the 1990s which demographically has a high ratio of right-wing, authoritarian, angry people from every most backward parts of the Former Soviet Union, but also includes many academically qualified people.

    The interesting thing was the arrival of ‘Camembert Aliyah’ of the recent years, which is again relatively liberal middle class people from Moscow.

    There was reported that Camembert Aliyah has in general, on a political and aesthetic level, has been completely shocked by the Sausage aliyah.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    There was reported that Camembert Aliyah has in general, on a political and aesthetic level, has been completely shocked by the Sausage aliyah.

     

    Brutalization and fall in living standards is a mechanism to shift a demographic to more authoritarian and right-wing positions.

    Sausage Aliyah in Israel seems to be an example.

    -


    According to the history books, Sausage Aliyah had a high ratio of idealistic centrists when they arrived in Israel and voted for Rabin - before the brutalization during the 1990s and early 2000s.

    -

    It's possible to believe in the brutalization, when you visit the kind of proletarian slums where 'Sausage aliyah' has settled, away from the desirable urban centers.

    For example, in Bat Yam, where they are mixed with lots of working class Moroccans and Iraqis.


    -

    Imagine building is also full of loud Moroccan families, and too hot and strong sunshine to go outside during the day, yet surrounded by pollution and car fumes.

    (Yes it could piss you off and make you less liberal).

    https://images1.calcalist.co.il/PicServer3/2017/06/03/730619/CAL047772_l.jpg

    -

    The centre street of the town:

    https://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx108/puerrtto/Israel/DSC_0061%20Medium_zpsqn3uvcom.jpg


    Youth of Bat Yam joking about their origins

    https://i.imgur.com/v7iy7LN.jpg


    Victory Day in Bat Yam

    http://www.moypolk.ru/storage/imagecache/w810/ckeditor/2018/5/21/5e78a2cb3f3e4a5a4041002c936055b4.jpeg

    http://newsru.co.il/pict/id/915551_20170508195851.jpg

    http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_preview/8/8/9/7701988.jpg



    Bat Yam slums - the second most densely populated place in Israel

    http://sfilev1.f-static.com/image/users/329884/ftp/my_files/FreeImages/38.jpg

    What kind of politics of people living in these buildings breeded...

    http://blog.tapuz.co.il/kmusa/images/2784370_392.jpg


    -
    -

    Politics of the demographic:

    Left-wing politicians (Herzog, Livni) - low representations overall.

    28,2% респондентов заявили, что хотели бы, чтобы главой правительства стал Авигдор Либерман. 27,4% хотят, чтобы на этом посту оставался Биньямин Нетаниягу. 12% хотят видеть премьер-министром Яира Лапида. От одного и более процента голосов также получили: Нафтали Беннет (4,2%), Моше Кахлон (3,6%), Ицхак Герцог (2,9%), Гидеон Саар (2,8%), Исраэль Кац (1,5%), Ципи Ливни (1,1%), Юлий Эдельштейн (1%).

    О желании видеть Либермана на посту премьер-министра чаще других говорили выходцы с востока Украины, пожилые люди, респонденты, приехавшие в Израиль в зрелом или пожилом возрасте, с доходом ниже среднего.

    За Нетаниягу чаще других голосовали репатрианты из Москвы и Санкт-Петербурга.

    За Лапида – выросшие в Израиле, а также выходцы из западных регионов бывшего СССР.

    Когда был задан вопрос "Кого бы вы хотели видеть премьер-министром Израиля, если Нетаниягу уйдет с этого поста?", 41,5% назвали имя Либермана, 13,3% – Лапида, 5,6% – Беннета, 2,9% – Герцога, 2,8% – Саара, 2,1% – Каца.
     
    http://newsru.co.il/israel/06apr2017/pori1_102.html

    -
    Below:
    Political views of the youth, which people expected to shift to left after integration in Israel.

    A secular youth living in a (nominal) Western country, yet the furthest left they go is centrist candidate (Yair Lapid). It's only a little more liberal than the sample that includes their parents (5% more like Yair Lapid, and 11% less like Lieberman).

    28% представителей "полуторного поколения" хотят видеть на посту премьер-министра Биньямина Нетаниягу (27% в среднем среди "русских израильтян"), 17% – Авигдора Либермана (28% в общем опросе), 17% – Яира Лапида (12% в общем).

    При этом, если Нетаниягу будет вынужден оставить свой пост, 30% хотели бы, чтобы пост главы правительства занял Либерман (41,5% в общем), 19% – Лапид (13% в общем), 9% – Нафтали Беннет (6% в общем).

     

    http://newsru.co.il/israel/03may2017/polutornoe_101.html
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  10. The two biggest problems with modern nationalism are…

    1. Economic and bureaucratic complexity
    2. Media diversity.

    IMO, the best hope for neo-nationalisms is to cast off into another country that will welcome them(i.e. really, Russia is the only option at first… as Moldbug says, there’s Russia, China, and the international community) and create small, economically specialized communities(tourism and translations could be a start). A sort of right wing fourierism where you need small communities(mimetic microutopias) that intentionally exhibits a set of values and way of life with the hope it will be seen and adopted.

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  11. ‘…while the editors of NYT aren’t exactly dealing with plummeting readership…’

    But I was told the exact opposite:

    http://www.unz.com/article/an-obituary-of-the-new-york-times/

    Not quite the same as predicting the end of the world in 10 days, but still.

    Read More
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  12. AaronB says:

    For the past 50 years the Right hasn’t offered anything inspiring. The very word conservative is lame.

    In a secular world, the Left cannot lose. Its reign will be eternal. The Left offers human perfection on earth. Of building a perfect society.

    The only vision that has historically matched this was the vision of becoming spiritually perfect.

    Those are the only two choices. The Left will just keep on winning in a secular world.

    Conservatives offered realism and a sense of human limits to the Lefts quest for perfection. They misunderstood Tradition – which is about the quest for perfection just as much as Leftism is. Had the Right offered its own version of the quest for perfection, it might have stood a chance.

    So the Right has zero chance in a secular world, and will keep on losing and losing. And rightly. I would rather be an idealistic Leftist than a realistic conservative.

    The history of the conservative movement is one of the clearer demonstrations of the adage ‘man does not live by bread alone’.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carlo
    You nailed it. I would just add that most so called "conservatives" just want to rewind history some 5 or 6 decades back, but just like the leftists they despise the Middle Ages, when religion was a social value (not individual), and enforced as such by the state (the Inquisition couldn't punish heretics or schismatics, they just inquired if they had true faith, if not asked them to recant and, last if they didn't, just turned them over to the state to deal with whatever punishment the law envisioned).
    , @dfordoom

    For the past 50 years the Right hasn’t offered anything inspiring. The very word conservative is lame.
     
    That's a big part of it. When the only thing the Right seems to really care about is tax cuts for rich people it's hardly surprising that the Right is universally despised. The Swine Right is a pretty apt description. The Right seems to stand for a combination of greed and cowardice.

    The alt-right doesn't appear to have come up with anything inspiring either.

    As for nationalism, it should be possible to make nationalism sexy and cool but so far we haven't managed it. If you can't make an ideology sexy and cool you can pretty much forget about winning over young people. We need to find a way to make nationalism more attractive than American pop culture.

    It should be possible. Back in the 60s and 70s anti-Americanism was part of the young sexy hip counter-culture thing. We need to make anti-Americanism fashionable again.
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  13. I’ll turn to this later but first off:

    “but the gay pride parade in Zagreb is not only huge”

    lol, no it isn’t.

    “but even the most fearless football hooligans were easily convinced not to give any resistance to the new wave of human rights.”

    So much so that a referendum ended up enshrining the defintion of marriage as between a man and a woman in the country’s constitution.

    Alarmism is common in the ex-communist countries of Europe but it only serves to distort the actual picture which does us no good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    I just read the full entry by Arpad Virag.

    It is complete bullshit.

    I have to ask you Karlin: what makes you, generally a smart guy, so naive as to buy such bullshit without applying any critical thinking?
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  14. songbird says:
    @German_reader
    You've got Africans in Bulgaria? Is one nowhere safe from them?

    I shall answer with another question: is there any place worse than sub-Saharan Africa (aside from Haiti)?

    They migrate into South Africa because it is better than where they came from. Also, into North Africa and even – this is hardest to believe but true – into Yemen. All of Europe is at risk. The welfare just makes certain areas preferential, but no area is safe – not even the Donbass – because every area is better.

    Read More
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  15. Carlo says:
    @AaronB
    For the past 50 years the Right hasn't offered anything inspiring. The very word conservative is lame.

    In a secular world, the Left cannot lose. Its reign will be eternal. The Left offers human perfection on earth. Of building a perfect society.

    The only vision that has historically matched this was the vision of becoming spiritually perfect.

    Those are the only two choices. The Left will just keep on winning in a secular world.

    Conservatives offered realism and a sense of human limits to the Lefts quest for perfection. They misunderstood Tradition - which is about the quest for perfection just as much as Leftism is. Had the Right offered its own version of the quest for perfection, it might have stood a chance.

    So the Right has zero chance in a secular world, and will keep on losing and losing. And rightly. I would rather be an idealistic Leftist than a realistic conservative.

    The history of the conservative movement is one of the clearer demonstrations of the adage 'man does not live by bread alone'.

    You nailed it. I would just add that most so called “conservatives” just want to rewind history some 5 or 6 decades back, but just like the leftists they despise the Middle Ages, when religion was a social value (not individual), and enforced as such by the state (the Inquisition couldn’t punish heretics or schismatics, they just inquired if they had true faith, if not asked them to recant and, last if they didn’t, just turned them over to the state to deal with whatever punishment the law envisioned).

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Right, most social conservatives just want us to go back a few decades. How is that going to compete with the Lefts grand vision of social perfection, utopia on Earth? There's no chance

    Even Karlins Transhunanism has a much better chance of offering a genuine alternative to the Left. Or Daniel Chieh's race to the stars.

    The Middle Ages was at least based on working to achieve a Heavenly utopia. Once that wasn't believed in anymore, the natural default position is to work towards an earthly utopia. That's why the Left will keep on winning and winning and winning. It's literally the only game in town.

    Nationalism isn't a utopia. It may be a practical necessity in a violent world. And I support it. But it isn't a grand quest toward human perfection such as traditional religion offered or the Left offers today.

    Also, nationalism was never divorced from the quest for utopia. Each nation saw itself as uniquely capable of realizing utopia. It had some kind of world mission, or it was a unique center of values. Even Ethiopia as discussed over on Karlins open thread saw itself as not just a country but a civilization. A center of unique values.

    The Right today advocates nationalism out of practical reasons, making the same mistake it always has. White nationalism is necessary because other groups practice identity politics. This is true, but since it isn't tied to the quest for human perfection, is it enough? Vox Day loves to go on about how white nationalism is inevitable because it is practically necessary. He's right, but he doesn't realize how he's failing to develop a really strong alternative to the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    Merely practical nationalism is weak, because it's always also practical to come to an accommodate with the enemy or even surrender to him entirely in order to survive. Even becoming Muslim may be considered highly practical by many Europeans - and I am sure will be, when the time comes.

    There is some attempt on the Right to make European culture the center of unique values like science - but the emphasis is always on white communities being comfortable and well ordered places to live. "Whitopia" is unique among utopias for meaning primarily order and comfort. Which are good things, but can't compete with the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    And Tradition has come to mean placing limits and restrictions on human nature since it is weak, in order to create order. This is an insipid vision. In fact, Tradition is about a grand quest for spiritual perfection, and the rules and restrictions support that goal. But in a secular world, even the Right can't admit that.

    Mankind must constantly be progressing towards a utopia of some kind. At least most people. That much is clear. And any political movement not based around that will render itself irrelevant.
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  16. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    @Anatoly Karlin: Do you think that this trend is true for Israel as well?

    I mean, with the possible exception of ex-USSR immigrants to Israel, the most nationalistic Israelis appear to have lower IQs (on average, based on anecdotal evidence). However, at the same time, left-wing Israelis have also done a fair share of panicking about the risk of Israel losing its Jewish majority. Plus, the longer that the occupation of the West Bank (which right-wing Israelis are more willing to support) remains in place, the greater the likelihood that Israel will one day annex the West Bank and be forced to grant Israeli citizenship to the Palestinian Arabs who are living there. Thus, with their own policies, right-wing Israelis might ironically be setting the stage for Israel to eventually see a significant reduction in its Jewish majority (percentage-wise, that is).

    Anyway, what are your thoughts on this?
     

    In Israel, it is famous, there's supposedly a strong relation between the established upper class (that immigrated from Europe) and the more liberal viewpoints. Until maybe the 1990s, you surely would even find for Israelis a strong statistical correlation between lightness of skin and hair tones, and political views (lighter people would correlate positively with liberal views, due to the historical voting patterns between the demographics).

    However, since the 1990s, there are more things that complicate it, like increase in size of the multi-ethnic religious national movement, and the arrival of "Sausage Aliyah" of the 1990s which demographically has a high ratio of right-wing, authoritarian, angry people from every most backward parts of the Former Soviet Union, but also includes many academically qualified people.

    The interesting thing was the arrival of 'Camembert Aliyah' of the recent years, which is again relatively liberal middle class people from Moscow.

    There was reported that Camembert Aliyah has in general, on a political and aesthetic level, has been completely shocked by the Sausage aliyah.

    There was reported that Camembert Aliyah has in general, on a political and aesthetic level, has been completely shocked by the Sausage aliyah.

    Brutalization and fall in living standards is a mechanism to shift a demographic to more authoritarian and right-wing positions.

    Sausage Aliyah in Israel seems to be an example.

    -

    According to the history books, Sausage Aliyah had a high ratio of idealistic centrists when they arrived in Israel and voted for Rabin – before the brutalization during the 1990s and early 2000s.

    -

    It’s possible to believe in the brutalization, when you visit the kind of proletarian slums where ‘Sausage aliyah’ has settled, away from the desirable urban centers.

    For example, in Bat Yam, where they are mixed with lots of working class Moroccans and Iraqis.

    -

    Imagine building is also full of loud Moroccan families, and too hot and strong sunshine to go outside during the day, yet surrounded by pollution and car fumes.

    (Yes it could piss you off and make you less liberal).

    -

    The centre street of the town:

    Youth of Bat Yam joking about their origins

    Victory Day in Bat Yam

    Bat Yam slums – the second most densely populated place in Israel

    What kind of politics of people living in these buildings breeded…

    -
    -

    Politics of the demographic:

    Left-wing politicians (Herzog, Livni) – low representations overall.

    28,2% респондентов заявили, что хотели бы, чтобы главой правительства стал Авигдор Либерман. 27,4% хотят, чтобы на этом посту оставался Биньямин Нетаниягу. 12% хотят видеть премьер-министром Яира Лапида. От одного и более процента голосов также получили: Нафтали Беннет (4,2%), Моше Кахлон (3,6%), Ицхак Герцог (2,9%), Гидеон Саар (2,8%), Исраэль Кац (1,5%), Ципи Ливни (1,1%), Юлий Эдельштейн (1%).

    О желании видеть Либермана на посту премьер-министра чаще других говорили выходцы с востока Украины, пожилые люди, респонденты, приехавшие в Израиль в зрелом или пожилом возрасте, с доходом ниже среднего.

    За Нетаниягу чаще других голосовали репатрианты из Москвы и Санкт-Петербурга.

    За Лапида – выросшие в Израиле, а также выходцы из западных регионов бывшего СССР.

    Когда был задан вопрос “Кого бы вы хотели видеть премьер-министром Израиля, если Нетаниягу уйдет с этого поста?”, 41,5% назвали имя Либермана, 13,3% – Лапида, 5,6% – Беннета, 2,9% – Герцога, 2,8% – Саара, 2,1% – Каца.

    http://newsru.co.il/israel/06apr2017/pori1_102.html

    -
    Below:
    Political views of the youth, which people expected to shift to left after integration in Israel.

    A secular youth living in a (nominal) Western country, yet the furthest left they go is centrist candidate (Yair Lapid). It’s only a little more liberal than the sample that includes their parents (5% more like Yair Lapid, and 11% less like Lieberman).

    28% представителей “полуторного поколения” хотят видеть на посту премьер-министра Биньямина Нетаниягу (27% в среднем среди “русских израильтян”), 17% – Авигдора Либермана (28% в общем опросе), 17% – Яира Лапида (12% в общем).

    При этом, если Нетаниягу будет вынужден оставить свой пост, 30% хотели бы, чтобы пост главы правительства занял Либерман (41,5% в общем), 19% – Лапид (13% в общем), 9% – Нафтали Беннет (6% в общем).

    http://newsru.co.il/israel/03may2017/polutornoe_101.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Polish Perspective
    I was in Israel a few years ago. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem as well as the occupied territories. I was going in thinking that Tel Aviv was going to the most impressive city. That delusion got crushed already at the airport. For a country supposedly close to France in nominal GDP per capita, I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better. The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.

    Jerusalem, contrary to my expectations, was actually much nice. It was far cleaner, for one, which I didn't understand. All the Israelis in Tel Aviv insisted that only religious crazies and brutes lived there. Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly). Going into the ultra-Orthodox neighbourhoods was interesting. I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing "immodestly" and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt. I didn't get stared at, nor did anyone try to correct me in any way.

    The pushiness and the filthy squalor of Tel Aviv was replaced by a polite orderliness. You could see the poverty in these Haredi neighbourhoods, but you could also see the community spirit. There were no drunks, no bums. The kids (and there were huge amounts of them) were all playing in the streets. I was surprised by the high number of women which worked in corner shops and the like. Apparently, I later found out, Haredi women work in greater numbers than men since the men focus a great deal on learning the Torah. Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive. Of course, once they shed their religious upbrining and get into communism and similar things, our judgement must change.

    The visit to the territories were similarly enlightening. To say that Palestinians live in a cage, is to glorify cages. I visited Hebron. The settlers had scrawled pushed them into narrow alleys down in the valley, which allowed them to stone them(!) from above whenever they felt like it and they often did. We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out. I doubt she got far. We also saw the wall, and how Israel had systematically built up a network of watch towers dissecting the landscape in order to cut off Palestinian villages from each other. It was a very clever system, but at the same time a very evil one. It wasn't hard to see how it was next to impossible to do a real rebellion even if you were clever. A substantial part of the entire state apparatus was dedicated to this objective and the only real way to achieve some form of pressure is to activate the outside world, but as we've seen with Trump, the Israelis basically control the US foreign policy in MENA, especially with regards to this conflict.

    Finally, speaking of Israeli architecture, here's another "masterpiece":

    https://i.imgur.com/bhNUnU9.jpg

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan, which is not even that impoverished. Notice the buildings in the background. Israel might have nice weather, but the many towns look like something ripped out of the Balkans in large sections. No wonder they prize their Bauhaus architectural legacy (which wasn't nearly as common as I thought it would). Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I'd take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day. Give it 15 years, and you'll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian. World Jewry will add sufficient pressure to make sure there are no rejections and our 'based' governments will fold.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I'm a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women. I certainly didn't try to LARP as a Jew and never pretended to be one either when asked.

    When I was at the airport, I was waved through with almost no questions asked. Tel Aviv airport is otherwise famous for racial profiling non-white citizens of Western countries (the assumption is that they are pro-Palestinian by default) by asking a ton of questions. Sometimes people get shoved into siderooms and interrogated for hours on the flimsiest of suspicions. Israelis also had a bad sense of time management and when I asked about it, they were blunt about their "Mediterranean" mentality. They apparently thought I was German so they would often say "this isn't Germany" with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another. For a brief moment, I probably understood what it meant to be a disapora Jew. Maybe it's time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)
    , @melanf

    Bat Yam slums – the second most densely populated place in Israel
     
    Photos are not very sympathetic. What's the point of immigration to Israel if immigrants live in such slums?
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  17. AaronB says:
    @Carlo
    You nailed it. I would just add that most so called "conservatives" just want to rewind history some 5 or 6 decades back, but just like the leftists they despise the Middle Ages, when religion was a social value (not individual), and enforced as such by the state (the Inquisition couldn't punish heretics or schismatics, they just inquired if they had true faith, if not asked them to recant and, last if they didn't, just turned them over to the state to deal with whatever punishment the law envisioned).

    Right, most social conservatives just want us to go back a few decades. How is that going to compete with the Lefts grand vision of social perfection, utopia on Earth? There’s no chance

    Even Karlins Transhunanism has a much better chance of offering a genuine alternative to the Left. Or Daniel Chieh’s race to the stars.

    The Middle Ages was at least based on working to achieve a Heavenly utopia. Once that wasn’t believed in anymore, the natural default position is to work towards an earthly utopia. That’s why the Left will keep on winning and winning and winning. It’s literally the only game in town.

    Nationalism isn’t a utopia. It may be a practical necessity in a violent world. And I support it. But it isn’t a grand quest toward human perfection such as traditional religion offered or the Left offers today.

    Also, nationalism was never divorced from the quest for utopia. Each nation saw itself as uniquely capable of realizing utopia. It had some kind of world mission, or it was a unique center of values. Even Ethiopia as discussed over on Karlins open thread saw itself as not just a country but a civilization. A center of unique values.

    The Right today advocates nationalism out of practical reasons, making the same mistake it always has. White nationalism is necessary because other groups practice identity politics. This is true, but since it isn’t tied to the quest for human perfection, is it enough? Vox Day loves to go on about how white nationalism is inevitable because it is practically necessary. He’s right, but he doesn’t realize how he’s failing to develop a really strong alternative to the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    Merely practical nationalism is weak, because it’s always also practical to come to an accommodate with the enemy or even surrender to him entirely in order to survive. Even becoming Muslim may be considered highly practical by many Europeans – and I am sure will be, when the time comes.

    There is some attempt on the Right to make European culture the center of unique values like science – but the emphasis is always on white communities being comfortable and well ordered places to live. “Whitopia” is unique among utopias for meaning primarily order and comfort. Which are good things, but can’t compete with the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    And Tradition has come to mean placing limits and restrictions on human nature since it is weak, in order to create order. This is an insipid vision. In fact, Tradition is about a grand quest for spiritual perfection, and the rules and restrictions support that goal. But in a secular world, even the Right can’t admit that.

    Mankind must constantly be progressing towards a utopia of some kind. At least most people. That much is clear. And any political movement not based around that will render itself irrelevant.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    All liberals and immigrants need to be killed. I mean that 100% literally. Once they are all dead we can worry about what comes next. Talking about what kind of society we want while even a single liberal or immigrant draws breath is premature.
    , @Lemurmaniac
    Bowden laid out a pretty clear vision of the right.
    , @Wency
    I think all of this is basically true -- the idea of returning to your grandparents' values because they were superior just never seems to be persuasive. This is one reason why Cthulhu swims as he does.

    The usual mechanism for reversing leftism is the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings (with terror and slaughter). And it's pretty reliable. At present, the mechanism for this would seem to be the conquest of the West by culturally and genetically more conservative Middle Eastern and African peoples.

    Unfortunately, our goal is to conserve the good things about our society and not to conserve conservatism itself. I understand the intent of neoreaction to be reversing the tide while skipping the terror and slaughter, and safeguarding against it in the future. But you're right that no one has really articulated a vision.

    My personal opinion, coming from the U.S. perspective, is that the only real hope is the return of Christianity in a more resilient form, driven by the differential fertility of Christians, and particularly of certain Christian sub-groups. The Amish and Mennonites being extreme examples, but also things like the Quiverfull movement. But there's even a non-denom church down the road from me that has a pro-natal theology, including a pastor with 13 kids and couples averaging 4-5 kids once their families are "complete".

    While there are a lot of initial defections, over time these groups are able to combine a pro-natal subculture with people who are genetically disposed to remaining within the group and perhaps to natalism itself.

    The Left has many advantages, but one key disadvantage it suffers from is anti-natalism, and indeed its ideology becomes more anti-natal by the year. While declining civilizations have always had anti-natal tendencies, no civilization has ever been nearly so anti-natal as ours. This allows groups with a radical pro-natal vision to have a larger impact than has ever before been possible. And outside Christianity, there's not really an intellectual avenue for radical pro-natalism in the West.

    Unfortunately, none of this is too relevant to our lifetimes, but I suspect the white population of the 22nd century will be shaped primarily by the phenomena I describe here, barring some massive technology-driven realignment.

    Gnon, at present, is selecting aggressively for natalism, natalism, and more natalism. Among groups, among people, and among ideas.
    , @Pericles
    We'll give you UTOPIA, don't worry.

    The catch: It's NEGRO UTOPIA. Enjoy!
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  18. BlackFlag says:
    @Mr. XYZ
    Also, as a side note, I'm not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people) and a change of attitudes on Third World immigration. Indeed, I would think that even liberal Eastern Europeans would be aware of the failure of the multicultural experiment in Western Europe.

    You would think the West would be aware of failures in Rhodesia, South Africa, Detroit, Baltimore, and Venezuela but it matters not.

    Read More
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  19. BlackFlag says:
    @Spisarevski

    I’m not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people)

     

    There is no difference. It's all one huge slippery slope, which contrary to leftist assertions is not a "fallacy". There is also zero benefit to be had from sodomite "marriage", giving defective freaks the same rights and recognition as normal families and allowing them to adopt children.

    Tolerance towards disgusting faggots appears together and in parallel with vegan protests, poison colored hair, aping everything western SJWs do, historic revisionism in history textbooks, media censorship, and ever more shitskin faces that I see every day in the Sofia metro.

    A few days ago there was also a video of a feral negress beating up a man in public transport apparently because he used the standard Bulgarian word for a black woman. It's like I was watching a video from Sweden or Britbongistan - some white cuck taking abuse and other people around him sitting uselessly. Never thought I would see something like this here.

    https://i.imgur.com/q1VUrLb.jpg

    Europeans are simply too inhibited. It’s probably a good trait for individuals but leads to disastrous results for the group.

    One solution if to medicate this. Imagine if all the right were completely unhibited for a week. It could lead to the critical mass of dissent/rebellion to turn the tired as this is a positive feedback dynamic. Or are there just not enough numbers?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    While superficially attractive, you can't get order out of disorder - which I think is a central takeaway from Mr. Karlin's original blog. In that sense, you're probably better off establishing weird tiny cults rather than attempting to create the world's largest footballer riot.
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  20. Hokie says:
    @Mr. XYZ
    Also, as a side note, I'm not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people) and a change of attitudes on Third World immigration. Indeed, I would think that even liberal Eastern Europeans would be aware of the failure of the multicultural experiment in Western Europe.

    Visiting Ukraine recently, it was deeply depressing to see how many Africans have settled in Kiev. Even smaller cities like Poltava had a fair number of Africans. Speaking to a few, pretty much all of them originally arrived as students.

    Since Ukraine’s population has been shrinking, the universities have been recruiting foreigners to fill spots. Africans, particularly Igbo from Nigeria, are the largest group, also southern Indians are pretty common too. Kiev Polytechnic Institute’s students are probably only about 80% white.

    The same worship of African dancing and music that pollutes America is being introduced there too. At KPI, there was an obese African-American woman teaching a few dozen white students a dance to a rap song that is popular in America.

    Most distressing, there is giant mural of Bob Marley and some other African figures from the 1960s USA counterculture two doors down from the Cossack House (a CasaPound type building a few hundred feet from Maidan). When we were visiting the Ukrainian nationalists there, they didn’t seemed to concerned, and cared a lot more about Donetsk and Crimea than packs of Africans roaming around Maidan. The African quarter in the Solomonskaya district also didn’t draw any concern from them, even though the nationalist rally was about half a kilometer away.

    The Polish nationalists there seemed pretty pessimistic too. They said that the courts and schools were polluted with leftist ideology just like America in the 1950s, and figured that their successors in 20-30 years would destroy their country, just like our leaders did in America.

    Hopefully you are right, but the trends don’t seem promising

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Ukrainians can only avert it if they go full Nork.
    , @AP

    Visiting Ukraine recently, it was deeply depressing to see how many Africans have settled in Kiev. Even smaller cities like Poltava had a fair number of Africans. Speaking to a few, pretty much all of them originally arrived as students.
     
    I was there in 2017, and didn't notice any significant number. They were very rare, as in Moscow (the ones I saw in Moscow this April were mostly given jobs yelling out advertisements on the street, such as to come to a restaurant, in heavily-accented Russian). I wasn't looking out for them, of course.

    Kiev has about 3 million people (unofficially perhaps 4 million). Percentage of Africans is miniscule.

    Look at random youtube videos of Kiev's streets and you'll see about zero Africans. Like here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-NX0IA015c

    One Indian, one eastern Asian, literally every other single person is white out of a few hundred in the video.

    Kiev subway:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9NOd2gesmw

    Whites only.


    Kiev Polytechnic Institute’s students are probably only about 80% white.
     
    Interesting. I know an African physician in the USA who had studied in Ukraine. Nice person, intelligent. Speaks both Russian and Ukrainian decently.

    Interview with African leader in Ukraine:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGEpGB9U1g

    Estimates 20,000 Africans in Ukraine. Apparently the largest chicken farm in Zaporizhia (Eastern Ukraine) is owned by a Nigerian.


    When we were visiting the Ukrainian nationalists there, they didn’t seemed to concerned, and cared a lot more about Donetsk and Crimea than packs of Africans roaming around Maidan.
     
    Because the latter doesn't happen.
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  21. @AaronB
    Right, most social conservatives just want us to go back a few decades. How is that going to compete with the Lefts grand vision of social perfection, utopia on Earth? There's no chance

    Even Karlins Transhunanism has a much better chance of offering a genuine alternative to the Left. Or Daniel Chieh's race to the stars.

    The Middle Ages was at least based on working to achieve a Heavenly utopia. Once that wasn't believed in anymore, the natural default position is to work towards an earthly utopia. That's why the Left will keep on winning and winning and winning. It's literally the only game in town.

    Nationalism isn't a utopia. It may be a practical necessity in a violent world. And I support it. But it isn't a grand quest toward human perfection such as traditional religion offered or the Left offers today.

    Also, nationalism was never divorced from the quest for utopia. Each nation saw itself as uniquely capable of realizing utopia. It had some kind of world mission, or it was a unique center of values. Even Ethiopia as discussed over on Karlins open thread saw itself as not just a country but a civilization. A center of unique values.

    The Right today advocates nationalism out of practical reasons, making the same mistake it always has. White nationalism is necessary because other groups practice identity politics. This is true, but since it isn't tied to the quest for human perfection, is it enough? Vox Day loves to go on about how white nationalism is inevitable because it is practically necessary. He's right, but he doesn't realize how he's failing to develop a really strong alternative to the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    Merely practical nationalism is weak, because it's always also practical to come to an accommodate with the enemy or even surrender to him entirely in order to survive. Even becoming Muslim may be considered highly practical by many Europeans - and I am sure will be, when the time comes.

    There is some attempt on the Right to make European culture the center of unique values like science - but the emphasis is always on white communities being comfortable and well ordered places to live. "Whitopia" is unique among utopias for meaning primarily order and comfort. Which are good things, but can't compete with the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    And Tradition has come to mean placing limits and restrictions on human nature since it is weak, in order to create order. This is an insipid vision. In fact, Tradition is about a grand quest for spiritual perfection, and the rules and restrictions support that goal. But in a secular world, even the Right can't admit that.

    Mankind must constantly be progressing towards a utopia of some kind. At least most people. That much is clear. And any political movement not based around that will render itself irrelevant.

    All liberals and immigrants need to be killed. I mean that 100% literally. Once they are all dead we can worry about what comes next. Talking about what kind of society we want while even a single liberal or immigrant draws breath is premature.

    Read More
    • Agree: Thorfinnsson
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Greasy my dear fellow, you do not mean that 100% literally. Because you are not insane.

    Lots of liberals are that way because they have a strong idealistic streak and no one told them about spiritual perfection. All religions are corrupted and have become just about a set of restrictions whose purpose isn't clear or worse, are explained as about limiting human freedom because we're weak. There's nothing to satisfy an idealistic streak in that. And the only other option is the Right, which is about lower level concerns like order and safety - which are important, but aren't enough. Look at you, Greasy - you're willing to fight Israel's wars out of some sense of mission. Clearly order and safety aren't what you're primarily after.

    Equality is an ideal on the spiritual level but on earth inequality is real. But in a secular world, people don't understand there are two levels of reality with different rules. Secularism only accepts one world - so the proper outlet for idealism is denied and forced into grotesque channels.

    Anatoly laments the low human capital of the Right - that's because high quality people are naturally idealistic. Anatoly himself is idealistic - he wants to transcend the human condition.

    If you killed all liberals, you'd kill most of the worlds high quality people. That's a painful fact we have to face. The way to fight liberalism is provide an alternative idealism. But the Left has been the only idealism in town for quite some time - which is why they keep on winning.

    Religion has to be sold as about the glorious quest for human perfection - not a set of restrictions. Tradition has to be about more than a set of rules but the quest for perfection.

    But as long as the world is secular, the Left is the only game in town. That's another painful fact to face.
    , @Erik Sieven
    If the ever do a documentary about unz.com in the MSM I could imagine this comment will be chosen an cited out of the tens of thousands of comments already posted.
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  22. @Dmitry

    There was reported that Camembert Aliyah has in general, on a political and aesthetic level, has been completely shocked by the Sausage aliyah.

     

    Brutalization and fall in living standards is a mechanism to shift a demographic to more authoritarian and right-wing positions.

    Sausage Aliyah in Israel seems to be an example.

    -


    According to the history books, Sausage Aliyah had a high ratio of idealistic centrists when they arrived in Israel and voted for Rabin - before the brutalization during the 1990s and early 2000s.

    -

    It's possible to believe in the brutalization, when you visit the kind of proletarian slums where 'Sausage aliyah' has settled, away from the desirable urban centers.

    For example, in Bat Yam, where they are mixed with lots of working class Moroccans and Iraqis.


    -

    Imagine building is also full of loud Moroccan families, and too hot and strong sunshine to go outside during the day, yet surrounded by pollution and car fumes.

    (Yes it could piss you off and make you less liberal).

    https://images1.calcalist.co.il/PicServer3/2017/06/03/730619/CAL047772_l.jpg

    -

    The centre street of the town:

    https://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx108/puerrtto/Israel/DSC_0061%20Medium_zpsqn3uvcom.jpg


    Youth of Bat Yam joking about their origins

    https://i.imgur.com/v7iy7LN.jpg


    Victory Day in Bat Yam

    http://www.moypolk.ru/storage/imagecache/w810/ckeditor/2018/5/21/5e78a2cb3f3e4a5a4041002c936055b4.jpeg

    http://newsru.co.il/pict/id/915551_20170508195851.jpg

    http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_preview/8/8/9/7701988.jpg



    Bat Yam slums - the second most densely populated place in Israel

    http://sfilev1.f-static.com/image/users/329884/ftp/my_files/FreeImages/38.jpg

    What kind of politics of people living in these buildings breeded...

    http://blog.tapuz.co.il/kmusa/images/2784370_392.jpg


    -
    -

    Politics of the demographic:

    Left-wing politicians (Herzog, Livni) - low representations overall.

    28,2% респондентов заявили, что хотели бы, чтобы главой правительства стал Авигдор Либерман. 27,4% хотят, чтобы на этом посту оставался Биньямин Нетаниягу. 12% хотят видеть премьер-министром Яира Лапида. От одного и более процента голосов также получили: Нафтали Беннет (4,2%), Моше Кахлон (3,6%), Ицхак Герцог (2,9%), Гидеон Саар (2,8%), Исраэль Кац (1,5%), Ципи Ливни (1,1%), Юлий Эдельштейн (1%).

    О желании видеть Либермана на посту премьер-министра чаще других говорили выходцы с востока Украины, пожилые люди, респонденты, приехавшие в Израиль в зрелом или пожилом возрасте, с доходом ниже среднего.

    За Нетаниягу чаще других голосовали репатрианты из Москвы и Санкт-Петербурга.

    За Лапида – выросшие в Израиле, а также выходцы из западных регионов бывшего СССР.

    Когда был задан вопрос "Кого бы вы хотели видеть премьер-министром Израиля, если Нетаниягу уйдет с этого поста?", 41,5% назвали имя Либермана, 13,3% – Лапида, 5,6% – Беннета, 2,9% – Герцога, 2,8% – Саара, 2,1% – Каца.
     
    http://newsru.co.il/israel/06apr2017/pori1_102.html

    -
    Below:
    Political views of the youth, which people expected to shift to left after integration in Israel.

    A secular youth living in a (nominal) Western country, yet the furthest left they go is centrist candidate (Yair Lapid). It's only a little more liberal than the sample that includes their parents (5% more like Yair Lapid, and 11% less like Lieberman).

    28% представителей "полуторного поколения" хотят видеть на посту премьер-министра Биньямина Нетаниягу (27% в среднем среди "русских израильтян"), 17% – Авигдора Либермана (28% в общем опросе), 17% – Яира Лапида (12% в общем).

    При этом, если Нетаниягу будет вынужден оставить свой пост, 30% хотели бы, чтобы пост главы правительства занял Либерман (41,5% в общем), 19% – Лапид (13% в общем), 9% – Нафтали Беннет (6% в общем).

     

    http://newsru.co.il/israel/03may2017/polutornoe_101.html

    I was in Israel a few years ago. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem as well as the occupied territories. I was going in thinking that Tel Aviv was going to the most impressive city. That delusion got crushed already at the airport. For a country supposedly close to France in nominal GDP per capita, I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better. The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.

    Jerusalem, contrary to my expectations, was actually much nice. It was far cleaner, for one, which I didn’t understand. All the Israelis in Tel Aviv insisted that only religious crazies and brutes lived there. Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly). Going into the ultra-Orthodox neighbourhoods was interesting. I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing “immodestly” and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt. I didn’t get stared at, nor did anyone try to correct me in any way.

    The pushiness and the filthy squalor of Tel Aviv was replaced by a polite orderliness. You could see the poverty in these Haredi neighbourhoods, but you could also see the community spirit. There were no drunks, no bums. The kids (and there were huge amounts of them) were all playing in the streets. I was surprised by the high number of women which worked in corner shops and the like. Apparently, I later found out, Haredi women work in greater numbers than men since the men focus a great deal on learning the Torah. Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive. Of course, once they shed their religious upbrining and get into communism and similar things, our judgement must change.

    The visit to the territories were similarly enlightening. To say that Palestinians live in a cage, is to glorify cages. I visited Hebron. The settlers had scrawled pushed them into narrow alleys down in the valley, which allowed them to stone them(!) from above whenever they felt like it and they often did. We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out. I doubt she got far. We also saw the wall, and how Israel had systematically built up a network of watch towers dissecting the landscape in order to cut off Palestinian villages from each other. It was a very clever system, but at the same time a very evil one. It wasn’t hard to see how it was next to impossible to do a real rebellion even if you were clever. A substantial part of the entire state apparatus was dedicated to this objective and the only real way to achieve some form of pressure is to activate the outside world, but as we’ve seen with Trump, the Israelis basically control the US foreign policy in MENA, especially with regards to this conflict.

    Finally, speaking of Israeli architecture, here’s another “masterpiece”:

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan, which is not even that impoverished. Notice the buildings in the background. Israel might have nice weather, but the many towns look like something ripped out of the Balkans in large sections. No wonder they prize their Bauhaus architectural legacy (which wasn’t nearly as common as I thought it would). Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I’d take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day. Give it 15 years, and you’ll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian. World Jewry will add sufficient pressure to make sure there are no rejections and our ‘based’ governments will fold.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women. I certainly didn’t try to LARP as a Jew and never pretended to be one either when asked.

    When I was at the airport, I was waved through with almost no questions asked. Tel Aviv airport is otherwise famous for racial profiling non-white citizens of Western countries (the assumption is that they are pro-Palestinian by default) by asking a ton of questions. Sometimes people get shoved into siderooms and interrogated for hours on the flimsiest of suspicions. Israelis also had a bad sense of time management and when I asked about it, they were blunt about their “Mediterranean” mentality. They apparently thought I was German so they would often say “this isn’t Germany” with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another. For a brief moment, I probably understood what it meant to be a disapora Jew. Maybe it’s time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)

    Read More
    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Greasy William

    Give it 15 years, and you’ll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian.
     
    This is already happening and has been going on for quite some time. I can assure you that every non religious Israeli Jew with a Polish grandparent already has a Polish passport. Do you feel like contemporary Poland doesn't have enough Jews? How does another 2 - 3 million sound? And yes, you are right, you will in fact be taking them in. They will not be permitted to remain in the Land of Israel, that's for damn sure.

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan
     
    I've got very little good to say about secular Israel but that building is fucking awesome. I don't know what your problem with it is. Good for that architect for being willing to do something different.

    We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out
     
    The extinction of American Jewry can't come soon enough.

    Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive.
     
    You can't even do antisemitism right. You are supposed to be more hostile to Torah True Jews.

    Yes Haredi culture is beautiful. It is also the future. I myself am not very observant but I'm always trying to be a little more so. Judaism is hard to do if you aren't part of a religious community. In 100 years all Jews will be Haredim and the filth you had the misfortune of dealing with in Tel Aviv will exist only in history books. Rejoice!

    I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing “immodestly” and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt.
     
    Uhm... you're a male. Unless you were dressed as an IDF soldier of course nobody was gonna bother you. This was Meah Shearim?

    I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another.
     
    Probably because the Ethiopians aren't actually Jewish. As I'm sure you know.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy.
     
    Israel is a very "colorist" society, sort of like with American blacks or with Indians. Having light skin in Israel is a huge prestige marker. But there isn't any meaningful Mizrahi/Ashkenazi divide anymore. The intermarriage is nearly 50% and among secular it is almost certainly well over 50%. The only meaningful divide in Israel is between the religious and the secular. Ethnicity doesn't matter. Except for the Ethiopian fake Jews.

    Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I’d take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day
     
    Biblical Israel was undoubtedly every bit as much of a dump, and yet it produced the Bible. Good things come from filthy, dilapidated packages.
    , @Dmitry

    , I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better.
     
    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    The trains and their stations are overall really nice.

    The problem is the bus station - which is the opposite (like you have entered Africa). I don't like the train station next to that bus station, but even it is perfectly modern as in Europe.


    The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.
     
    It depends on the streets - the expensive ones would impress. The overall building quality is very low in most of the city. Although skyscrapers are building everywhere, like in a 'boom town'.

    Atmosphere though in the expensive parts of the city is something else.


    Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly).

     

    The buses are the same in the two cities. (Egged is a bus company).

    The difference is that Jerusalem has built the light rail which you would have used, if you had visited.


    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped.
     
    They stop everyone (unless it's out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I'm a light Northern European appeared man - makes no difference.

    You invented a kind of dumb story.


    For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way.

     

    Lol you got "treated better than" the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?

    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven't done?

    It's pretty weird and obviously cobbled together from some travel reviews you read, but with lots of imagination added.

    You and Okechukwu need to get a room with his hired "Russian security "

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/sweden-no/#comment-2344966

    , @utu
    Very interesting. Somehow I had this image of Tel Aviv as modern good looking and well run European city, a new Pearl of Mediterranean, a better non-Muslim version of Beirut and you have just destroyed it. Also I thought that Israel was more egalitarian which implied no slums. This perhaps was more true in the early phase of the Israeli when socialist and Kibbutzim ideas were still alive. Do Jews treat other Jews better and show greater solidarity when they live among 'hostile' gentile majority? Does the 'anti-semitism' of 'hostile' gentile majority makes them to conform to more 'civilized' ways makes them better humans?

    Total Rubbish: Why Is Israel So Filthy?
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/#comment-2353632
     

    Israel’s heavy bureaucracy leads to corruption, think tank says
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-heavy-bureaucracy-leads-to-corruption-think-tank-says/

     


    Are Israelis Rude? Learning Not To Be Polite In Israel
    http://therayve.blogspot.com/2010/09/are-israelis-rude-learning-not-to-be.html
     
    Jewish towns, ghettos and shtetls were always known for their 'balagan' and 'bardak'. Also they were known for their directness and redness. What is interesting that I heard several times from American and Israeli Jews that when forced to talk bout it on account of Israel they try to explain that this the leftover of habits they picked up from primitive Russian and Polish peasants. Also they blame the over-the-top inflexible and capricious bureaucracy that treat clients like dirt on Tsarist bureaucracy.
    , @Anarcho-Supremacist
    "Maybe it’s time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)"

    With all of the "Black Hebrew Israelites" that may be easier then you think.
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  23. AaronB says:
    @Greasy William
    All liberals and immigrants need to be killed. I mean that 100% literally. Once they are all dead we can worry about what comes next. Talking about what kind of society we want while even a single liberal or immigrant draws breath is premature.

    Greasy my dear fellow, you do not mean that 100% literally. Because you are not insane.

    Lots of liberals are that way because they have a strong idealistic streak and no one told them about spiritual perfection. All religions are corrupted and have become just about a set of restrictions whose purpose isn’t clear or worse, are explained as about limiting human freedom because we’re weak. There’s nothing to satisfy an idealistic streak in that. And the only other option is the Right, which is about lower level concerns like order and safety – which are important, but aren’t enough. Look at you, Greasy – you’re willing to fight Israel’s wars out of some sense of mission. Clearly order and safety aren’t what you’re primarily after.

    Equality is an ideal on the spiritual level but on earth inequality is real. But in a secular world, people don’t understand there are two levels of reality with different rules. Secularism only accepts one world – so the proper outlet for idealism is denied and forced into grotesque channels.

    Anatoly laments the low human capital of the Right – that’s because high quality people are naturally idealistic. Anatoly himself is idealistic – he wants to transcend the human condition.

    If you killed all liberals, you’d kill most of the worlds high quality people. That’s a painful fact we have to face. The way to fight liberalism is provide an alternative idealism. But the Left has been the only idealism in town for quite some time – which is why they keep on winning.

    Religion has to be sold as about the glorious quest for human perfection – not a set of restrictions. Tradition has to be about more than a set of rules but the quest for perfection.

    But as long as the world is secular, the Left is the only game in town. That’s another painful fact to face.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gate666
    religiosity is inversely proportional to iq.
    , @Pericles

    If you killed all liberals, you’d kill most of the worlds high quality people.

     

    Lol, now you're just high. Just a few years after flittering off to find your true idealistic self at Berkeley, you will be hunched over your adopted gay son, giving him the gift of the bug with your feminine penis. Because you are the highest quality of people.
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  24. I have often commented upon the fact that AK seems to have a curious obsession with gay marriage, and transsexuals, as The Ultimate Arbiter of Truth when it comes to how based a country supposedly is. I always counter with this map:

    As a Russian, it is easy to see why you would boost gay marriage as The Defining Issue. But if you care about the historical continuity of your people, it seems like the Czechs do better than most of us, and they seem to be pretty relaxed about it. You may hate gays for whatever reason, but I’d be careful in obsessing over the issue the way AK seems to do as some kind of great canary in the coalmine.

    I largely agree with the ‘Frozen in time’ hyp0thesis. I do not buy into the theory of some, including far too many insular Polish nationalists, that EE will escape unharmed from the damage of the West.

    One area where I disagree is why the right fails. To my mind, a lot of the right are basically just middle-class conformists. There are two reasons why the left won, in my view:

    A) the left cares about politics to a much greater extent in a proactive way whereas the right often just reacts to what the left does, i.e. a reactive stance. This means that even when the right is weak, the left keeps pushing on. The right often has a static “leave me alone” mentality which is going to lead into passivity and comfort whenever there isn’t a strong left to react against. This creates a strong natural barrier to continuous growth.

    B) The left is not afraid at challenging social norms and living with the consequences. Whereas much of even the supposedly “radical” right is absolutely obsessed with normies. But this is illogical. In the 1940s, huge majorities of US whites were against miscegenation. If a leftist followed the advice of today’s “radical” right, they would be trying to appeal to normies all the time. But the left went on the furthest-far end and pushed relentlessly. The right always says “well that will cause backlash/blowback” and it does, but by the time it does, the position the left has achieved has been advanced already, so their losses will still put them ahead from where they started. Next time, they can go further.

    Much of the right is obsessed with acceptability, respectability and it is highly conformist. This is natural, in a sense, since many on the right would score high on authoritarianism. There is often a great deal of stress in rightist circles on dressing “right” which often just means “be petty bourgeois” in practice. The optics cuck debate post-Charlottesville is a good example. The “white trashionalists” slur is another. Even if TWP and similar groups had problems, they nevertheless had a revolutionary perspective. If you thought they had issues, then the solution would be to offer an alternative, but one which is still radical. Instead, what many people did was just promote Trumpism like Ricky Vaughn and similar dolts. This quest for respectability is also something I sense in AK’s writing, the sense that being assocated with the right is “embarrassing”. Fine, but then you’d live your whole life on the left’s premises.

    Change ultimately requires some form of sacrifice, and far too many on the right are frankly too cowardly and too conformist to do that. At this point, the charge you get hurled back to you is some moronic shitpost about “READ SIEGE” but that is a nonsense argument. The choice we have before us is not between the current approach, which is reactionary, tame, conformist and some LARPing Waco-style ‘insurgency’ which will lead nowhere. This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group. This past May 1st, they had not one, but two demonstrations which is not a small feat for a small country like Sweden when you can muster hundreds of peoples at two different locations at the same time. Nordfront, their online publication is huge.

    I am not worried about logistics or even the timeline. There’s still plenty of time for even Sweden or a Germany. I am more worried about the inability of many on the right to stop obsessing over what is “embarrassing”. If you’re more concerned about your social status, you’ll never achieve anything. I think the social status mongering is really a reflection of people’s delusions that “reform from within” can happen, but in my view, it can’t. Power does not cede gracefully, it has to be ripped from their hands and they will see us coming from a mile away. This is also why the “we will take over the GOP” nonsense was always doomed for failure, something Ricky Vaugn and the other morons pushed. It was ironic, to me, that despite Vaugh shilling so much for the GOP, when he got doxxed, no single mainstream GOP personality came out to support him. I doubt many even had heard of him. The only people who would have stood up for him, were the ones he had demonised so they had no incentive. Vaughn was upper-middle class but had no class loyalty and often spoken negatively about lower-class whites. I was disappointed, but not exactly surprised, when I saw that AK praised him, given that AK also reads NRx blogs, which in turn is filled with these middle-class conformists.

    I made a long comment before about why I think that inter-class loyalty goes a long way to explain Germanic success. I noted that in Sweden, even upper-middle class kids like Chris Dulny would openly support NMR, whereas in the US his equivalents (like Vaughn) would demonise such groups and obsess over mainstream acceptance. That’s why Sweden has a thriving scene and the US does not.

    A lot of commentary, especially from the neoreactionaries, are just privileged whining by socially comfortable people. Even their phrases (“the Cathedral”) gives it away. I would not take much stock in what they have to say, for they have no organisation on the ground. No skin in the game, as Taleb would rightly and acidly point out. That is also a lesson why the AR fell apart. An online movement, especially one so obsessed with appearances, will lead to nowhere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    Yes, inter-class loyalty does not exist at all in the UK. The last time it existed was in the WW2 era. The upper classes seem to regard the white unskilled underclass as verging on sub-human and are in a deep rage that Brexit means they will not be able to replace them with Europeans. Good post on Israel.
    , @DFH

    B) The left is not afraid at challenging social norms and living with the consequences. Whereas much of even the supposedly “radical” right is absolutely obsessed with normies. But this is illogical. In the 1940s, huge majorities of US whites were against miscegenation. If a leftist followed the advice of today’s “radical” right, they would be trying to appeal to normies all the time. But the left went on the furthest-far end and pushed relentlessly. The right always says “well that will cause backlash/blowback” and it does, but by the time it does, the position the left has achieved has been advanced already, so their losses will still put them ahead from where they started. Next time, they can go further.
     
    But left-wing movements like changing the immigration policy, decriminalising homosexual acts and 'civil-rights' denied that more extreme consequences would come about. I don't see any evidence that their more extreme members helped rather than hindered them, the latter was certainly the belief of the leaders of those movements at the time.

    The optics cuck debate post-Charlottesville is a good example. The “white trashionalists” slur is another. Even if TWP and similar groups had problems, they nevertheless had a revolutionary perspective. If you thought they had issues, then the solution would be to offer an alternative, but one which is still radical. Instead, what many people did was just promote Trumpism like Ricky Vaughn and similar dolts. This quest for respectability is also something I sense in AK’s writing, the sense that being assocated with the right is “embarrassing”. Fine, but then you’d live your whole life on the left’s premises.
     
    The TWP was a failure in any terms, with virtually no support. It was tiny and insignificant even by the standards of far-right movements. Ditto for anti-British dress up group NA.
    , @fnn
    Brings to mind a passage from Shirer's famous book:
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2010/06/henry-williamson/

    The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along the road between Aachen and Brussels one saw the contrasts between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth-tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars. (Shirer, p. 256)
     
    , @utu

    This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group.
     
    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury. They right a way fall into the trap of being those Whites who enslaved Africans and exterminated Indians who also are Americans for racist reasons. Referring to themselves as Europeans will not catch a traction in America which always saw itself as an anti-European or at least superior to Europe civilization. I guess also for Russians it might be harder to find unambiguous and not offensive self-identifcation because all those Russia's citizens from Muslim republics can't be easily dismissed. Sailer's 'invade the world invite the world' applies to Russia even more than to America. Russians must dance around the whiteness and fall back to Christian Orthodoxy which certainly does not suit everybody. One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms. On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.
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  25. @Polish Perspective
    I was in Israel a few years ago. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem as well as the occupied territories. I was going in thinking that Tel Aviv was going to the most impressive city. That delusion got crushed already at the airport. For a country supposedly close to France in nominal GDP per capita, I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better. The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.

    Jerusalem, contrary to my expectations, was actually much nice. It was far cleaner, for one, which I didn't understand. All the Israelis in Tel Aviv insisted that only religious crazies and brutes lived there. Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly). Going into the ultra-Orthodox neighbourhoods was interesting. I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing "immodestly" and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt. I didn't get stared at, nor did anyone try to correct me in any way.

    The pushiness and the filthy squalor of Tel Aviv was replaced by a polite orderliness. You could see the poverty in these Haredi neighbourhoods, but you could also see the community spirit. There were no drunks, no bums. The kids (and there were huge amounts of them) were all playing in the streets. I was surprised by the high number of women which worked in corner shops and the like. Apparently, I later found out, Haredi women work in greater numbers than men since the men focus a great deal on learning the Torah. Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive. Of course, once they shed their religious upbrining and get into communism and similar things, our judgement must change.

    The visit to the territories were similarly enlightening. To say that Palestinians live in a cage, is to glorify cages. I visited Hebron. The settlers had scrawled pushed them into narrow alleys down in the valley, which allowed them to stone them(!) from above whenever they felt like it and they often did. We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out. I doubt she got far. We also saw the wall, and how Israel had systematically built up a network of watch towers dissecting the landscape in order to cut off Palestinian villages from each other. It was a very clever system, but at the same time a very evil one. It wasn't hard to see how it was next to impossible to do a real rebellion even if you were clever. A substantial part of the entire state apparatus was dedicated to this objective and the only real way to achieve some form of pressure is to activate the outside world, but as we've seen with Trump, the Israelis basically control the US foreign policy in MENA, especially with regards to this conflict.

    Finally, speaking of Israeli architecture, here's another "masterpiece":

    https://i.imgur.com/bhNUnU9.jpg

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan, which is not even that impoverished. Notice the buildings in the background. Israel might have nice weather, but the many towns look like something ripped out of the Balkans in large sections. No wonder they prize their Bauhaus architectural legacy (which wasn't nearly as common as I thought it would). Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I'd take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day. Give it 15 years, and you'll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian. World Jewry will add sufficient pressure to make sure there are no rejections and our 'based' governments will fold.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I'm a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women. I certainly didn't try to LARP as a Jew and never pretended to be one either when asked.

    When I was at the airport, I was waved through with almost no questions asked. Tel Aviv airport is otherwise famous for racial profiling non-white citizens of Western countries (the assumption is that they are pro-Palestinian by default) by asking a ton of questions. Sometimes people get shoved into siderooms and interrogated for hours on the flimsiest of suspicions. Israelis also had a bad sense of time management and when I asked about it, they were blunt about their "Mediterranean" mentality. They apparently thought I was German so they would often say "this isn't Germany" with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another. For a brief moment, I probably understood what it meant to be a disapora Jew. Maybe it's time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)

    Give it 15 years, and you’ll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian.

    This is already happening and has been going on for quite some time. I can assure you that every non religious Israeli Jew with a Polish grandparent already has a Polish passport. Do you feel like contemporary Poland doesn’t have enough Jews? How does another 2 – 3 million sound? And yes, you are right, you will in fact be taking them in. They will not be permitted to remain in the Land of Israel, that’s for damn sure.

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan

    I’ve got very little good to say about secular Israel but that building is fucking awesome. I don’t know what your problem with it is. Good for that architect for being willing to do something different.

    We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out

    The extinction of American Jewry can’t come soon enough.

    Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive.

    You can’t even do antisemitism right. You are supposed to be more hostile to Torah True Jews.

    Yes Haredi culture is beautiful. It is also the future. I myself am not very observant but I’m always trying to be a little more so. Judaism is hard to do if you aren’t part of a religious community. In 100 years all Jews will be Haredim and the filth you had the misfortune of dealing with in Tel Aviv will exist only in history books. Rejoice!

    I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing “immodestly” and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt.

    Uhm… you’re a male. Unless you were dressed as an IDF soldier of course nobody was gonna bother you. This was Meah Shearim?

    I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another.

    Probably because the Ethiopians aren’t actually Jewish. As I’m sure you know.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy.

    Israel is a very “colorist” society, sort of like with American blacks or with Indians. Having light skin in Israel is a huge prestige marker. But there isn’t any meaningful Mizrahi/Ashkenazi divide anymore. The intermarriage is nearly 50% and among secular it is almost certainly well over 50%. The only meaningful divide in Israel is between the religious and the secular. Ethnicity doesn’t matter. Except for the Ethiopian fake Jews.

    Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I’d take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day

    Biblical Israel was undoubtedly every bit as much of a dump, and yet it produced the Bible. Good things come from filthy, dilapidated packages.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB

    Good things come from filthy, dilapidated packages
     
    Yup.

    India!

    , @Dmitry
    It's kind of funny that none of you guys have been in Israel - Greasy and PolishPerspective.

    You've all told me stuff which is like the opposite of the most basics of the country (e.g. dilapidated train stations). Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

    One thing it shows is that the ideas of countries are in some way more interesting to people than first-hand experiencein the co untries.

    It's reminds me of reading on here Saker saying about how you can find Nazi literature in every bookshop in Moscow, and at the same time that nobody cares about money in my country (!).

    For the time it requires to imagine that, you could have got half way to country- and maybe soon come back, and tell us some boring stuff that corresponds with the place, even if we all know it already. But it's more funny to imagine some additional crazy layer that we don't know about because, happily or sadly, does not transpire except in your head.

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  26. AaronB says:
    @Greasy William

    Give it 15 years, and you’ll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian.
     
    This is already happening and has been going on for quite some time. I can assure you that every non religious Israeli Jew with a Polish grandparent already has a Polish passport. Do you feel like contemporary Poland doesn't have enough Jews? How does another 2 - 3 million sound? And yes, you are right, you will in fact be taking them in. They will not be permitted to remain in the Land of Israel, that's for damn sure.

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan
     
    I've got very little good to say about secular Israel but that building is fucking awesome. I don't know what your problem with it is. Good for that architect for being willing to do something different.

    We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out
     
    The extinction of American Jewry can't come soon enough.

    Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive.
     
    You can't even do antisemitism right. You are supposed to be more hostile to Torah True Jews.

    Yes Haredi culture is beautiful. It is also the future. I myself am not very observant but I'm always trying to be a little more so. Judaism is hard to do if you aren't part of a religious community. In 100 years all Jews will be Haredim and the filth you had the misfortune of dealing with in Tel Aviv will exist only in history books. Rejoice!

    I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing “immodestly” and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt.
     
    Uhm... you're a male. Unless you were dressed as an IDF soldier of course nobody was gonna bother you. This was Meah Shearim?

    I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another.
     
    Probably because the Ethiopians aren't actually Jewish. As I'm sure you know.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy.
     
    Israel is a very "colorist" society, sort of like with American blacks or with Indians. Having light skin in Israel is a huge prestige marker. But there isn't any meaningful Mizrahi/Ashkenazi divide anymore. The intermarriage is nearly 50% and among secular it is almost certainly well over 50%. The only meaningful divide in Israel is between the religious and the secular. Ethnicity doesn't matter. Except for the Ethiopian fake Jews.

    Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I’d take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day
     
    Biblical Israel was undoubtedly every bit as much of a dump, and yet it produced the Bible. Good things come from filthy, dilapidated packages.

    Good things come from filthy, dilapidated packages

    Yup.

    India!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  27. Dmitry says:
    @Polish Perspective
    I was in Israel a few years ago. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem as well as the occupied territories. I was going in thinking that Tel Aviv was going to the most impressive city. That delusion got crushed already at the airport. For a country supposedly close to France in nominal GDP per capita, I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better. The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.

    Jerusalem, contrary to my expectations, was actually much nice. It was far cleaner, for one, which I didn't understand. All the Israelis in Tel Aviv insisted that only religious crazies and brutes lived there. Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly). Going into the ultra-Orthodox neighbourhoods was interesting. I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing "immodestly" and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt. I didn't get stared at, nor did anyone try to correct me in any way.

    The pushiness and the filthy squalor of Tel Aviv was replaced by a polite orderliness. You could see the poverty in these Haredi neighbourhoods, but you could also see the community spirit. There were no drunks, no bums. The kids (and there were huge amounts of them) were all playing in the streets. I was surprised by the high number of women which worked in corner shops and the like. Apparently, I later found out, Haredi women work in greater numbers than men since the men focus a great deal on learning the Torah. Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive. Of course, once they shed their religious upbrining and get into communism and similar things, our judgement must change.

    The visit to the territories were similarly enlightening. To say that Palestinians live in a cage, is to glorify cages. I visited Hebron. The settlers had scrawled pushed them into narrow alleys down in the valley, which allowed them to stone them(!) from above whenever they felt like it and they often did. We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out. I doubt she got far. We also saw the wall, and how Israel had systematically built up a network of watch towers dissecting the landscape in order to cut off Palestinian villages from each other. It was a very clever system, but at the same time a very evil one. It wasn't hard to see how it was next to impossible to do a real rebellion even if you were clever. A substantial part of the entire state apparatus was dedicated to this objective and the only real way to achieve some form of pressure is to activate the outside world, but as we've seen with Trump, the Israelis basically control the US foreign policy in MENA, especially with regards to this conflict.

    Finally, speaking of Israeli architecture, here's another "masterpiece":

    https://i.imgur.com/bhNUnU9.jpg

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan, which is not even that impoverished. Notice the buildings in the background. Israel might have nice weather, but the many towns look like something ripped out of the Balkans in large sections. No wonder they prize their Bauhaus architectural legacy (which wasn't nearly as common as I thought it would). Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I'd take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day. Give it 15 years, and you'll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian. World Jewry will add sufficient pressure to make sure there are no rejections and our 'based' governments will fold.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I'm a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women. I certainly didn't try to LARP as a Jew and never pretended to be one either when asked.

    When I was at the airport, I was waved through with almost no questions asked. Tel Aviv airport is otherwise famous for racial profiling non-white citizens of Western countries (the assumption is that they are pro-Palestinian by default) by asking a ton of questions. Sometimes people get shoved into siderooms and interrogated for hours on the flimsiest of suspicions. Israelis also had a bad sense of time management and when I asked about it, they were blunt about their "Mediterranean" mentality. They apparently thought I was German so they would often say "this isn't Germany" with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another. For a brief moment, I probably understood what it meant to be a disapora Jew. Maybe it's time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)

    , I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better.

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    The trains and their stations are overall really nice.

    The problem is the bus station – which is the opposite (like you have entered Africa). I don’t like the train station next to that bus station, but even it is perfectly modern as in Europe.

    The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.

    It depends on the streets – the expensive ones would impress. The overall building quality is very low in most of the city. Although skyscrapers are building everywhere, like in a ‘boom town’.

    Atmosphere though in the expensive parts of the city is something else.

    Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly).

    The buses are the same in the two cities. (Egged is a bus company).

    The difference is that Jerusalem has built the light rail which you would have used, if you had visited.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped.

    They stop everyone (unless it’s out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I’m a light Northern European appeared man – makes no difference.

    You invented a kind of dumb story.

    For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way.

    Lol you got “treated better than” the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?

    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven’t done?

    It’s pretty weird and obviously cobbled together from some travel reviews you read, but with lots of imagination added.

    You and Okechukwu need to get a room with his hired “Russian security ”

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/sweden-no/#comment-2344966

    Read More
    • Replies: @Polish Perspective

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.
     
    I was there in 2015, and from what I understand you were there much more recently, so either they did a much-needed renovation in the meantime or your standards are lower than mine.

    It depends on the streets – the expensive ones would impress.
     
    We lived in the Yafo neighbourhood, which is supposedly a "up-and-coming" hipster neighbourhood(it was also ground zero for expulsion of Palestininans in 1948, though you won't hear many talk loudly about that).

    I certainly did see many expensive and hip restaurants, but the sqaulor was still there, nestled around it. I was also moving towards the center of a city a lot, primarily Rothschild Avenue (I believe it is called), which is their main artery and I was similarly unimpressed. I will say that TA has great amounts of restaurants.

    They stop everyone (unless it’s out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I’m a light Northern European appeared man – makes no difference.
     

    I was waved through several times. Sorry if you got stopped. The places where security was tightest was Northern Tel Aviv, which is apparently the richest parts. I went into several supermarkets with security and was not taken aside, but some locals were.

    Lol you got “treated better than” the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?
     
    To the extent I talked, I used English, so it would be fair they assumed I was an American given that I am pretty fluent. The only people who guessed I was German was when I revealed I was from Europe, but that wasn't in security-related situations but average Israelis. There are lots of American Jews in Tel Aviv, and it would be entirely possible some of them stereotyped me as such when interacting formally in English. Would they treat a (stereotypically rich) American Jew better than a poor Mizrahi local?

    It wasn't just security-related, though, even in public transportation and similar settings I was notably treated better than Ethiopians and some Mizrahis.

    As it happens, Russian-origin Jews have had some racist discrimination against them in Israel. There's even a slur arsim which is used against Russians, even though it started as a slur against those with a Middle Eastern background(regardless of religion) from the Ashkenazi native-born class.

    Max Blumenthal detailed this in his magisterial book. There is an interesting chapter on Russian Jews in Israel and the subtle forms of discrimination they have. Though you are too in love with Israel to absorb that info.


    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven’t done?
     

    obviously cobbled together
     

    You invented a kind of dumb story.
     
    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv. You have set yourself upon thinking that it is a great city, and your blind love of Israel is obvious. You're free to believe or not, but if you honestly think I would take great care to impress you, I think you're delusional about your relative importance to me, no offence.
    , @songbird
    I don't know if he is making it up. Two things I would say:

    It is known that Israelis racially profile. They do it because they are sensible, and it works. I think it speaks well of them than otherwise, although you do have to be careful, as a lot of the terrorists against the French in North African picked more European-looking women to plant their bombs.

    I live near Boston. I think it is like the #8 financial center in the world. Home to a lot of important research. Certainly, an important American city. And there are times that I've been in the subway, and if you had the light, you could grow potatoes down there, on the trains - they are that dirty. I never saw this in another country but perhaps I never rode at the right time. More than 95% percent of the subway does not impress, still it is an important city.
    , @Anonymous
    Odd response from you, you are obviously getting emotional. Polish commentator is a top 10 commentator and should have the credibility to not be accused of fabrication without better evidence. You as another top 10 commentator should maintain your standard of quality in comments.
    , @utu

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.
     
    His impression of Tel Aviv railway station made you think he is lying?

    Train Travel in Israel Is Anything but Romantic
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/.premium-train-travel-in-israel-is-anything-but-romantic-1.5435738

    But Israeli trains are functional, not fun. The views are unimpressive – dusty, dirty and crowded. At no time did more than a minute or two elapse without houses intruding on the view. Seen from the train, Israel looks like one long unbroken stretch of buildings – and the construction is ongoing. Moreover, while the trains were clean, the windows were often dirty.

    The stations, in contrast, were nightmares, almost without exception. Access to the platforms was inconvenient, often consisting of a narrow flight of stairs, and the food sold there is stale, tasteless and expensive. Having eaten at three different stations, my conclusion was that dying of hunger is preferable.

    The exception was Haifa, whose main station was built by the British 80 years ago. The location is superb, in the heart of the lower city

     

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  28. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    Give it 15 years, and you’ll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian.
     
    This is already happening and has been going on for quite some time. I can assure you that every non religious Israeli Jew with a Polish grandparent already has a Polish passport. Do you feel like contemporary Poland doesn't have enough Jews? How does another 2 - 3 million sound? And yes, you are right, you will in fact be taking them in. They will not be permitted to remain in the Land of Israel, that's for damn sure.

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan
     
    I've got very little good to say about secular Israel but that building is fucking awesome. I don't know what your problem with it is. Good for that architect for being willing to do something different.

    We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out
     
    The extinction of American Jewry can't come soon enough.

    Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive.
     
    You can't even do antisemitism right. You are supposed to be more hostile to Torah True Jews.

    Yes Haredi culture is beautiful. It is also the future. I myself am not very observant but I'm always trying to be a little more so. Judaism is hard to do if you aren't part of a religious community. In 100 years all Jews will be Haredim and the filth you had the misfortune of dealing with in Tel Aviv will exist only in history books. Rejoice!

    I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing “immodestly” and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt.
     
    Uhm... you're a male. Unless you were dressed as an IDF soldier of course nobody was gonna bother you. This was Meah Shearim?

    I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another.
     
    Probably because the Ethiopians aren't actually Jewish. As I'm sure you know.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy.
     
    Israel is a very "colorist" society, sort of like with American blacks or with Indians. Having light skin in Israel is a huge prestige marker. But there isn't any meaningful Mizrahi/Ashkenazi divide anymore. The intermarriage is nearly 50% and among secular it is almost certainly well over 50%. The only meaningful divide in Israel is between the religious and the secular. Ethnicity doesn't matter. Except for the Ethiopian fake Jews.

    Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I’d take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day
     
    Biblical Israel was undoubtedly every bit as much of a dump, and yet it produced the Bible. Good things come from filthy, dilapidated packages.

    It’s kind of funny that none of you guys have been in Israel – Greasy and PolishPerspective.

    You’ve all told me stuff which is like the opposite of the most basics of the country (e.g. dilapidated train stations). Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

    One thing it shows is that the ideas of countries are in some way more interesting to people than first-hand experiencein the co untries.

    It’s reminds me of reading on here Saker saying about how you can find Nazi literature in every bookshop in Moscow, and at the same time that nobody cares about money in my country (!).

    For the time it requires to imagine that, you could have got half way to country- and maybe soon come back, and tell us some boring stuff that corresponds with the place, even if we all know it already. But it’s more funny to imagine some additional crazy layer that we don’t know about because, happily or sadly, does not transpire except in your head.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William
    what did I say that was wrong? The only thing you could possibly dispute was that Israel is colorist, which everybody knows is true. So is India and so are the Arab countries. It's really not a big deal.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    I just asked a Russian guy who I know for a fact spent a couple of months in Israel to adjudicate on all three of you.
    , @AaronB

    Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

     

    I've lived in Israel when younger and visited multiple times. Last time in 2009 around. Don't remember exactly.

    Polish Perspective is not that far off. The country does not seem modern. Thailand seems way more modern.

    I've never been to the airport train station, but I was at some Tel Aviv station. It seemed fine, but not ultra modern.

    Jerusalem, especially the nachlaot area, is pretty run down and third world. The Jewish section of the old city is sterile and lifeless and clean. Oh, I was stopped multiple times by an Israeli border guard at the old city gates, and I look very northern European. Also by security in malls in Tel Aviv, who asked me in Hebrew if I had a gun.

    I was also stopped by security getting off the plane, but I had drank half a bottle of vodka on the plane and was not in the best shape. They let me go after a few seconds of questioning.

    Tel Aviv is pretty run down but not terrible. But it lacks sparkle, sophistication, and class - on one trip, I arrived from Istanbul, which is so much more polished and stylish.

    On the whole, the country is pleasingly chaotic and third worldish. It will make you happy to know that I like Israel Dmitry - I think its Jews are much healthier and more human than American Jews, who have lost their minds. Although politically Israelis are insane. I like the freewheeling atmosphere - it reminds me of Asia a bit. I like the grime and dirt. That's character.

    Still, there is something insular and strange about the place, and I get depressed if I stay for too long. Although I would like to go visit again.

    Haven't been 10 years.

    Why don't you just live there Dmitry? You're obviously a Zionist!

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  29. @Dmitry
    It's kind of funny that none of you guys have been in Israel - Greasy and PolishPerspective.

    You've all told me stuff which is like the opposite of the most basics of the country (e.g. dilapidated train stations). Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

    One thing it shows is that the ideas of countries are in some way more interesting to people than first-hand experiencein the co untries.

    It's reminds me of reading on here Saker saying about how you can find Nazi literature in every bookshop in Moscow, and at the same time that nobody cares about money in my country (!).

    For the time it requires to imagine that, you could have got half way to country- and maybe soon come back, and tell us some boring stuff that corresponds with the place, even if we all know it already. But it's more funny to imagine some additional crazy layer that we don't know about because, happily or sadly, does not transpire except in your head.

    what did I say that was wrong? The only thing you could possibly dispute was that Israel is colorist, which everybody knows is true. So is India and so are the Arab countries. It’s really not a big deal.

    Read More
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  30. @Dmitry
    It's kind of funny that none of you guys have been in Israel - Greasy and PolishPerspective.

    You've all told me stuff which is like the opposite of the most basics of the country (e.g. dilapidated train stations). Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

    One thing it shows is that the ideas of countries are in some way more interesting to people than first-hand experiencein the co untries.

    It's reminds me of reading on here Saker saying about how you can find Nazi literature in every bookshop in Moscow, and at the same time that nobody cares about money in my country (!).

    For the time it requires to imagine that, you could have got half way to country- and maybe soon come back, and tell us some boring stuff that corresponds with the place, even if we all know it already. But it's more funny to imagine some additional crazy layer that we don't know about because, happily or sadly, does not transpire except in your head.

    I just asked a Russian guy who I know for a fact spent a couple of months in Israel to adjudicate on all three of you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I personally do have some question marks after reading some comments.
    , @Dmitry
    Lol I've been to Israel many times.

    He copied a few true stuff about the shabbiness of buildings and dirtiness of Tel Aviv (it's like 1950s Tokyo, or maybe 1890s New York, or maybe Mumbai today - it's a chaotic boom town). But in Jerusalem it's also not any great improvement and also has a lot of shabby areas.

    The story is a wholly imaginary one though.

    For example, he talks about the shabbiness of train stations at the airport and at Tel Aviv.

    It's the opposite. The trains are quite modern and posh, and even the stations are better than in many Western countries.

    So the average tourist on the first visit, will at first feel like they are in Japan, and that Israel is 'really modern' - until they leave the station, when they will suddenly be shocked by the contrast as they enter a very very shabby world (after being misled by the nice trains and their stations).

    To enjoy a train ride:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0_G8xU5_A0

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  31. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    There was reported that Camembert Aliyah has in general, on a political and aesthetic level, has been completely shocked by the Sausage aliyah.

     

    Brutalization and fall in living standards is a mechanism to shift a demographic to more authoritarian and right-wing positions.

    Sausage Aliyah in Israel seems to be an example.

    -


    According to the history books, Sausage Aliyah had a high ratio of idealistic centrists when they arrived in Israel and voted for Rabin - before the brutalization during the 1990s and early 2000s.

    -

    It's possible to believe in the brutalization, when you visit the kind of proletarian slums where 'Sausage aliyah' has settled, away from the desirable urban centers.

    For example, in Bat Yam, where they are mixed with lots of working class Moroccans and Iraqis.


    -

    Imagine building is also full of loud Moroccan families, and too hot and strong sunshine to go outside during the day, yet surrounded by pollution and car fumes.

    (Yes it could piss you off and make you less liberal).

    https://images1.calcalist.co.il/PicServer3/2017/06/03/730619/CAL047772_l.jpg

    -

    The centre street of the town:

    https://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx108/puerrtto/Israel/DSC_0061%20Medium_zpsqn3uvcom.jpg


    Youth of Bat Yam joking about their origins

    https://i.imgur.com/v7iy7LN.jpg


    Victory Day in Bat Yam

    http://www.moypolk.ru/storage/imagecache/w810/ckeditor/2018/5/21/5e78a2cb3f3e4a5a4041002c936055b4.jpeg

    http://newsru.co.il/pict/id/915551_20170508195851.jpg

    http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_preview/8/8/9/7701988.jpg



    Bat Yam slums - the second most densely populated place in Israel

    http://sfilev1.f-static.com/image/users/329884/ftp/my_files/FreeImages/38.jpg

    What kind of politics of people living in these buildings breeded...

    http://blog.tapuz.co.il/kmusa/images/2784370_392.jpg


    -
    -

    Politics of the demographic:

    Left-wing politicians (Herzog, Livni) - low representations overall.

    28,2% респондентов заявили, что хотели бы, чтобы главой правительства стал Авигдор Либерман. 27,4% хотят, чтобы на этом посту оставался Биньямин Нетаниягу. 12% хотят видеть премьер-министром Яира Лапида. От одного и более процента голосов также получили: Нафтали Беннет (4,2%), Моше Кахлон (3,6%), Ицхак Герцог (2,9%), Гидеон Саар (2,8%), Исраэль Кац (1,5%), Ципи Ливни (1,1%), Юлий Эдельштейн (1%).

    О желании видеть Либермана на посту премьер-министра чаще других говорили выходцы с востока Украины, пожилые люди, респонденты, приехавшие в Израиль в зрелом или пожилом возрасте, с доходом ниже среднего.

    За Нетаниягу чаще других голосовали репатрианты из Москвы и Санкт-Петербурга.

    За Лапида – выросшие в Израиле, а также выходцы из западных регионов бывшего СССР.

    Когда был задан вопрос "Кого бы вы хотели видеть премьер-министром Израиля, если Нетаниягу уйдет с этого поста?", 41,5% назвали имя Либермана, 13,3% – Лапида, 5,6% – Беннета, 2,9% – Герцога, 2,8% – Саара, 2,1% – Каца.
     
    http://newsru.co.il/israel/06apr2017/pori1_102.html

    -
    Below:
    Political views of the youth, which people expected to shift to left after integration in Israel.

    A secular youth living in a (nominal) Western country, yet the furthest left they go is centrist candidate (Yair Lapid). It's only a little more liberal than the sample that includes their parents (5% more like Yair Lapid, and 11% less like Lieberman).

    28% представителей "полуторного поколения" хотят видеть на посту премьер-министра Биньямина Нетаниягу (27% в среднем среди "русских израильтян"), 17% – Авигдора Либермана (28% в общем опросе), 17% – Яира Лапида (12% в общем).

    При этом, если Нетаниягу будет вынужден оставить свой пост, 30% хотели бы, чтобы пост главы правительства занял Либерман (41,5% в общем), 19% – Лапид (13% в общем), 9% – Нафтали Беннет (6% в общем).

     

    http://newsru.co.il/israel/03may2017/polutornoe_101.html

    Bat Yam slums – the second most densely populated place in Israel

    Photos are not very sympathetic. What’s the point of immigration to Israel if immigrants live in such slums?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The immigrants experience a decline in living standards. In the early 1990s, many were almost homeless (living inside tents) for the first years, as there was not enough housing to accommodate them (tens of thousands arriving each month).

    Then many were settled in the worst slums (often not allowed to choose due to housing crisis).

    In terms of employment, the joke is about famous scientists are working as a janitor or toilet cleaners.

    Today they have the same salary as the average in Israel, but they are still negatively damaged economically, because of lack of inheritance from parents.

    -

    My friend and his wife lives in Bat Yam slums (he lived in Israel continuously for six years now) - he is newly qualified as a doctor.

    I stayed in his apartment in February .

    Where he lives is like 'total slum'. But just next to his house they start to build a lot of skyscrapers.

    There is something a bit surreal, that if you own property in this slum, you have a chance to become a millionaire.

    You become a millionaire, if company decides to demolish the slum building where your apartment is, and construct a skyscraper - in exchange they give you a free apartment often worth a million dollars.

    In Israeli law, the company that builds the skyscrapers has to give a free apartment to the people in the building it demolished.

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  32. @Anatoly Karlin
    I just asked a Russian guy who I know for a fact spent a couple of months in Israel to adjudicate on all three of you.

    I personally do have some question marks after reading some comments.

    Read More
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  33. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry
    It's kind of funny that none of you guys have been in Israel - Greasy and PolishPerspective.

    You've all told me stuff which is like the opposite of the most basics of the country (e.g. dilapidated train stations). Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

    One thing it shows is that the ideas of countries are in some way more interesting to people than first-hand experiencein the co untries.

    It's reminds me of reading on here Saker saying about how you can find Nazi literature in every bookshop in Moscow, and at the same time that nobody cares about money in my country (!).

    For the time it requires to imagine that, you could have got half way to country- and maybe soon come back, and tell us some boring stuff that corresponds with the place, even if we all know it already. But it's more funny to imagine some additional crazy layer that we don't know about because, happily or sadly, does not transpire except in your head.

    Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

    I’ve lived in Israel when younger and visited multiple times. Last time in 2009 around. Don’t remember exactly.

    Polish Perspective is not that far off. The country does not seem modern. Thailand seems way more modern.

    I’ve never been to the airport train station, but I was at some Tel Aviv station. It seemed fine, but not ultra modern.

    Jerusalem, especially the nachlaot area, is pretty run down and third world. The Jewish section of the old city is sterile and lifeless and clean. Oh, I was stopped multiple times by an Israeli border guard at the old city gates, and I look very northern European. Also by security in malls in Tel Aviv, who asked me in Hebrew if I had a gun.

    I was also stopped by security getting off the plane, but I had drank half a bottle of vodka on the plane and was not in the best shape. They let me go after a few seconds of questioning.

    Tel Aviv is pretty run down but not terrible. But it lacks sparkle, sophistication, and class – on one trip, I arrived from Istanbul, which is so much more polished and stylish.

    On the whole, the country is pleasingly chaotic and third worldish. It will make you happy to know that I like Israel Dmitry – I think its Jews are much healthier and more human than American Jews, who have lost their minds. Although politically Israelis are insane. I like the freewheeling atmosphere – it reminds me of Asia a bit. I like the grime and dirt. That’s character.

    Still, there is something insular and strange about the place, and I get depressed if I stay for too long. Although I would like to go visit again.

    Haven’t been 10 years.

    Why don’t you just live there Dmitry? You’re obviously a Zionist!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    On the whole, the country is pleasingly chaotic and third worldish. It will make you happy to know that I like Israel Dmitry – I think its Jews are much healthier and more human than American Jews, who have lost their minds. Although politically Israelis are insane. I like the freewheeling atmosphere – it reminds me of Asia a bit. I like the grime and dirt. That’s character.
     
    It depends if you come from the West or the East.

    Some are more chaotic and badly organized cities even than Russia, though a little similar in some ways. (Although still a lot better than Los Angeles, for example.). But chaos in Israel is a bit related to goldrush or economic boom atmosphere.

    In many ways though, it's as safe as Japan. You can leave your bag in a cafe, and no-one will be scared anyone to steal it (everyone leaves their possession unguarded on the beach). I never saw any physical fighting. I had a person run after me when my bag was open, to tell me it was open. Etc.

    In places like Barcelona, you don't leave your bag alone for one second. Overall a lot safer and less crazy than walking around Californian cities (which I was doing last summer)

    I find the (daytime) atmosphere of Israel definitely too intense and stressed to want to live there, but it the country/language is one my main hobbies.

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  34. Árpád Virág is a Hungarian name. Both names could be first names, Árpád is male (less likely to be a family name I think) and Virág female (more likely to be a family name). So probably it’s a guy with Árpád being his first name.

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  35. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    I just asked a Russian guy who I know for a fact spent a couple of months in Israel to adjudicate on all three of you.

    Lol I’ve been to Israel many times.

    He copied a few true stuff about the shabbiness of buildings and dirtiness of Tel Aviv (it’s like 1950s Tokyo, or maybe 1890s New York, or maybe Mumbai today – it’s a chaotic boom town). But in Jerusalem it’s also not any great improvement and also has a lot of shabby areas.

    The story is a wholly imaginary one though.

    For example, he talks about the shabbiness of train stations at the airport and at Tel Aviv.

    It’s the opposite. The trains are quite modern and posh, and even the stations are better than in many Western countries.

    So the average tourist on the first visit, will at first feel like they are in Japan, and that Israel is ‘really modern’ – until they leave the station, when they will suddenly be shocked by the contrast as they enter a very very shabby world (after being misled by the nice trains and their stations).

    To enjoy a train ride:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lemurmaniac
    I've not been to Israel, but it strikes me as a very ugly country from what I've seen in news reports, Israeli tv shows, and google. Ugly mosques (horrid, bulbous things), ugly temples, ugly people with angular faces and hooked noses, ugly desert, ugly cube shaped houses, ugly uniforms, ugly skull caps...
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Oh, I certainly trust you have been to Israel, esp. considering you go on about it do much. :)

    I'm not sure why there's a good reason to believe Polish Perspective is lying. We all come with our preconceptions, and can have biased impressions (especially if we don't even things out by spending a long time there). For instance, people have been raving to me about how good and modern Sheremetyevo has become, but I haven't been impressed right now (took me 2-3x longer to clear the line than at Sheremetyvo). I continue to rate Domodedovo considerably higher, but that goes against basically all my friends' impressions.
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  36. @AaronB
    Right, most social conservatives just want us to go back a few decades. How is that going to compete with the Lefts grand vision of social perfection, utopia on Earth? There's no chance

    Even Karlins Transhunanism has a much better chance of offering a genuine alternative to the Left. Or Daniel Chieh's race to the stars.

    The Middle Ages was at least based on working to achieve a Heavenly utopia. Once that wasn't believed in anymore, the natural default position is to work towards an earthly utopia. That's why the Left will keep on winning and winning and winning. It's literally the only game in town.

    Nationalism isn't a utopia. It may be a practical necessity in a violent world. And I support it. But it isn't a grand quest toward human perfection such as traditional religion offered or the Left offers today.

    Also, nationalism was never divorced from the quest for utopia. Each nation saw itself as uniquely capable of realizing utopia. It had some kind of world mission, or it was a unique center of values. Even Ethiopia as discussed over on Karlins open thread saw itself as not just a country but a civilization. A center of unique values.

    The Right today advocates nationalism out of practical reasons, making the same mistake it always has. White nationalism is necessary because other groups practice identity politics. This is true, but since it isn't tied to the quest for human perfection, is it enough? Vox Day loves to go on about how white nationalism is inevitable because it is practically necessary. He's right, but he doesn't realize how he's failing to develop a really strong alternative to the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    Merely practical nationalism is weak, because it's always also practical to come to an accommodate with the enemy or even surrender to him entirely in order to survive. Even becoming Muslim may be considered highly practical by many Europeans - and I am sure will be, when the time comes.

    There is some attempt on the Right to make European culture the center of unique values like science - but the emphasis is always on white communities being comfortable and well ordered places to live. "Whitopia" is unique among utopias for meaning primarily order and comfort. Which are good things, but can't compete with the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    And Tradition has come to mean placing limits and restrictions on human nature since it is weak, in order to create order. This is an insipid vision. In fact, Tradition is about a grand quest for spiritual perfection, and the rules and restrictions support that goal. But in a secular world, even the Right can't admit that.

    Mankind must constantly be progressing towards a utopia of some kind. At least most people. That much is clear. And any political movement not based around that will render itself irrelevant.

    Bowden laid out a pretty clear vision of the right.

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    What did he say?
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  37. AaronB says:
    @Lemurmaniac
    Bowden laid out a pretty clear vision of the right.

    What did he say?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lemurmaniac
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmXddTvAkQ0
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  38. @Dmitry
    Lol I've been to Israel many times.

    He copied a few true stuff about the shabbiness of buildings and dirtiness of Tel Aviv (it's like 1950s Tokyo, or maybe 1890s New York, or maybe Mumbai today - it's a chaotic boom town). But in Jerusalem it's also not any great improvement and also has a lot of shabby areas.

    The story is a wholly imaginary one though.

    For example, he talks about the shabbiness of train stations at the airport and at Tel Aviv.

    It's the opposite. The trains are quite modern and posh, and even the stations are better than in many Western countries.

    So the average tourist on the first visit, will at first feel like they are in Japan, and that Israel is 'really modern' - until they leave the station, when they will suddenly be shocked by the contrast as they enter a very very shabby world (after being misled by the nice trains and their stations).

    To enjoy a train ride:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0_G8xU5_A0

    I’ve not been to Israel, but it strikes me as a very ugly country from what I’ve seen in news reports, Israeli tv shows, and google. Ugly mosques (horrid, bulbous things), ugly temples, ugly people with angular faces and hooked noses, ugly desert, ugly cube shaped houses, ugly uniforms, ugly skull caps…

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  39. @AaronB
    What did he say?

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  40. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    Bat Yam slums – the second most densely populated place in Israel
     
    Photos are not very sympathetic. What's the point of immigration to Israel if immigrants live in such slums?

    The immigrants experience a decline in living standards. In the early 1990s, many were almost homeless (living inside tents) for the first years, as there was not enough housing to accommodate them (tens of thousands arriving each month).

    Then many were settled in the worst slums (often not allowed to choose due to housing crisis).

    In terms of employment, the joke is about famous scientists are working as a janitor or toilet cleaners.

    Today they have the same salary as the average in Israel, but they are still negatively damaged economically, because of lack of inheritance from parents.

    -

    My friend and his wife lives in Bat Yam slums (he lived in Israel continuously for six years now) – he is newly qualified as a doctor.

    I stayed in his apartment in February .

    Where he lives is like ‘total slum’. But just next to his house they start to build a lot of skyscrapers.

    There is something a bit surreal, that if you own property in this slum, you have a chance to become a millionaire.

    You become a millionaire, if company decides to demolish the slum building where your apartment is, and construct a skyscraper – in exchange they give you a free apartment often worth a million dollars.

    In Israeli law, the company that builds the skyscrapers has to give a free apartment to the people in the building it demolished.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Where he lives is like ‘total slum’. But just next to his house they start to build a lot of skyscrapers.

    There is something a bit surreal, that if you own property in this slum, you have a chance to become a millionaire.

    You become a millionaire, if company decides to demolish the slum building where your apartment is, and construct a skyscraper – in exchange they give you a free apartment often worth a million dollars.
     

    At 2:14 in the video, the way they're putting suddenly them up next to - and starting to go on top of the old slum buildings .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8vncV6VERs

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  41. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry
    The immigrants experience a decline in living standards. In the early 1990s, many were almost homeless (living inside tents) for the first years, as there was not enough housing to accommodate them (tens of thousands arriving each month).

    Then many were settled in the worst slums (often not allowed to choose due to housing crisis).

    In terms of employment, the joke is about famous scientists are working as a janitor or toilet cleaners.

    Today they have the same salary as the average in Israel, but they are still negatively damaged economically, because of lack of inheritance from parents.

    -

    My friend and his wife lives in Bat Yam slums (he lived in Israel continuously for six years now) - he is newly qualified as a doctor.

    I stayed in his apartment in February .

    Where he lives is like 'total slum'. But just next to his house they start to build a lot of skyscrapers.

    There is something a bit surreal, that if you own property in this slum, you have a chance to become a millionaire.

    You become a millionaire, if company decides to demolish the slum building where your apartment is, and construct a skyscraper - in exchange they give you a free apartment often worth a million dollars.

    In Israeli law, the company that builds the skyscrapers has to give a free apartment to the people in the building it demolished.

    Where he lives is like ‘total slum’. But just next to his house they start to build a lot of skyscrapers.

    There is something a bit surreal, that if you own property in this slum, you have a chance to become a millionaire.

    You become a millionaire, if company decides to demolish the slum building where your apartment is, and construct a skyscraper – in exchange they give you a free apartment often worth a million dollars.

    At 2:14 in the video, the way they’re putting suddenly them up next to – and starting to go on top of the old slum buildings .

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  42. @Dmitry
    Lol I've been to Israel many times.

    He copied a few true stuff about the shabbiness of buildings and dirtiness of Tel Aviv (it's like 1950s Tokyo, or maybe 1890s New York, or maybe Mumbai today - it's a chaotic boom town). But in Jerusalem it's also not any great improvement and also has a lot of shabby areas.

    The story is a wholly imaginary one though.

    For example, he talks about the shabbiness of train stations at the airport and at Tel Aviv.

    It's the opposite. The trains are quite modern and posh, and even the stations are better than in many Western countries.

    So the average tourist on the first visit, will at first feel like they are in Japan, and that Israel is 'really modern' - until they leave the station, when they will suddenly be shocked by the contrast as they enter a very very shabby world (after being misled by the nice trains and their stations).

    To enjoy a train ride:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0_G8xU5_A0

    Oh, I certainly trust you have been to Israel, esp. considering you go on about it do much. :)

    I’m not sure why there’s a good reason to believe Polish Perspective is lying. We all come with our preconceptions, and can have biased impressions (especially if we don’t even things out by spending a long time there). For instance, people have been raving to me about how good and modern Sheremetyevo has become, but I haven’t been impressed right now (took me 2-3x longer to clear the line than at Sheremetyvo). I continue to rate Domodedovo considerably higher, but that goes against basically all my friends’ impressions.

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    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Sure I was like 'oh an interesting story' - as I start to read. And the train station thing (which is the inverse), makes me think this imaginary story.

    And then it goes into pure fiction, about never being checked by security because he is a European (you'll get checked multiple times a day everywhere you go, don't worry I'm European, still getting checked many times a day).

    Also about being treated better than Mizrahi Jews (that's the majority of the Israelis and vast majority of people serving you, not going to happen), or having a special rapport with "visibly ignored Ethiopian Jews" as fellow outsiders (which part of the story was invented by a left-wing guy anyway that it must have been copied from, not by this user).

    Ethiopian Jews do usually only speak Hebrew. You don't see them 'often ignored in public in a very visible way'. And I doubt they will feel any special rapport with him as a EU tourist - it's a projection of a left-wing European imagination. Creative writing from a left-wing perspective, which was not invented by this user who said he was right-wing.


    They apparently thought I was German so they would often say “this isn’t Germany” with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another.
     

    For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women.
     
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  43. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Oh, I certainly trust you have been to Israel, esp. considering you go on about it do much. :)

    I'm not sure why there's a good reason to believe Polish Perspective is lying. We all come with our preconceptions, and can have biased impressions (especially if we don't even things out by spending a long time there). For instance, people have been raving to me about how good and modern Sheremetyevo has become, but I haven't been impressed right now (took me 2-3x longer to clear the line than at Sheremetyvo). I continue to rate Domodedovo considerably higher, but that goes against basically all my friends' impressions.

    Sure I was like ‘oh an interesting story’ – as I start to read. And the train station thing (which is the inverse), makes me think this imaginary story.

    And then it goes into pure fiction, about never being checked by security because he is a European (you’ll get checked multiple times a day everywhere you go, don’t worry I’m European, still getting checked many times a day).

    Also about being treated better than Mizrahi Jews (that’s the majority of the Israelis and vast majority of people serving you, not going to happen), or having a special rapport with “visibly ignored Ethiopian Jews” as fellow outsiders (which part of the story was invented by a left-wing guy anyway that it must have been copied from, not by this user).

    Ethiopian Jews do usually only speak Hebrew. You don’t see them ‘often ignored in public in a very visible way’. And I doubt they will feel any special rapport with him as a EU tourist – it’s a projection of a left-wing European imagination. Creative writing from a left-wing perspective, which was not invented by this user who said he was right-wing.

    They apparently thought I was German so they would often say “this isn’t Germany” with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another.

    For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women.

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  44. @Dmitry

    , I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better.
     
    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    The trains and their stations are overall really nice.

    The problem is the bus station - which is the opposite (like you have entered Africa). I don't like the train station next to that bus station, but even it is perfectly modern as in Europe.


    The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.
     
    It depends on the streets - the expensive ones would impress. The overall building quality is very low in most of the city. Although skyscrapers are building everywhere, like in a 'boom town'.

    Atmosphere though in the expensive parts of the city is something else.


    Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly).

     

    The buses are the same in the two cities. (Egged is a bus company).

    The difference is that Jerusalem has built the light rail which you would have used, if you had visited.


    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped.
     
    They stop everyone (unless it's out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I'm a light Northern European appeared man - makes no difference.

    You invented a kind of dumb story.


    For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way.

     

    Lol you got "treated better than" the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?

    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven't done?

    It's pretty weird and obviously cobbled together from some travel reviews you read, but with lots of imagination added.

    You and Okechukwu need to get a room with his hired "Russian security "

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/sweden-no/#comment-2344966

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    I was there in 2015, and from what I understand you were there much more recently, so either they did a much-needed renovation in the meantime or your standards are lower than mine.

    It depends on the streets – the expensive ones would impress.

    We lived in the Yafo neighbourhood, which is supposedly a “up-and-coming” hipster neighbourhood(it was also ground zero for expulsion of Palestininans in 1948, though you won’t hear many talk loudly about that).

    I certainly did see many expensive and hip restaurants, but the sqaulor was still there, nestled around it. I was also moving towards the center of a city a lot, primarily Rothschild Avenue (I believe it is called), which is their main artery and I was similarly unimpressed. I will say that TA has great amounts of restaurants.

    They stop everyone (unless it’s out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I’m a light Northern European appeared man – makes no difference.

    I was waved through several times. Sorry if you got stopped. The places where security was tightest was Northern Tel Aviv, which is apparently the richest parts. I went into several supermarkets with security and was not taken aside, but some locals were.

    Lol you got “treated better than” the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?

    To the extent I talked, I used English, so it would be fair they assumed I was an American given that I am pretty fluent. The only people who guessed I was German was when I revealed I was from Europe, but that wasn’t in security-related situations but average Israelis. There are lots of American Jews in Tel Aviv, and it would be entirely possible some of them stereotyped me as such when interacting formally in English. Would they treat a (stereotypically rich) American Jew better than a poor Mizrahi local?

    It wasn’t just security-related, though, even in public transportation and similar settings I was notably treated better than Ethiopians and some Mizrahis.

    As it happens, Russian-origin Jews have had some racist discrimination against them in Israel. There’s even a slur arsim which is used against Russians, even though it started as a slur against those with a Middle Eastern background(regardless of religion) from the Ashkenazi native-born class.

    Max Blumenthal detailed this in his magisterial book. There is an interesting chapter on Russian Jews in Israel and the subtle forms of discrimination they have. Though you are too in love with Israel to absorb that info.

    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven’t done?

    obviously cobbled together

    You invented a kind of dumb story.

    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv. You have set yourself upon thinking that it is a great city, and your blind love of Israel is obvious. You’re free to believe or not, but if you honestly think I would take great care to impress you, I think you’re delusional about your relative importance to me, no offence.

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    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv.
     
    I had this long discussion with Dimitry about the rate of plastic surgeries in Israel in comparison to the US and he fought it as if he was a Texan defending Alamo. Neither of us had definitive data to settle the issue so there was a room for interpretation form the limited data we had. I sensed that his stance was coming form this idealized Israel where shit does not stink which is more pure than the rest of the world that he wanted to believe in. Early Zionist believed and preached that all evils will be left behind in Eastern Europeans ghettos and shtetls and a New Jewish Man will be reborn in Eretz Israel and afterward they will all live happily ever after. How possibly girls would need or want to have nose jobs in a paradise like that?

    Look how shabby, out of shape and somewhat 'racially inferior' these IDF soldiers in Auschwitz look:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-KT1dkiAnc

    , @Dmitry

    I was there in 2015, and from what I understand you were there much more recently, so either they did a much-needed renovation in the meantime or your standards are lower than mine.

     

    It's a made-up story, I know from a lot of different reasons.

    I don't know/care why (I guess because you read the Blumenthal book, and some Polish travel reviews?) - but I can see it's fake very easily, because all the opposites.

    I know you make up the trip and so do you. So what's the use of pretending.

    We lived in the Yafo neighbourhood, which is supposedly a “up-and-coming” hipster neighbourhood(it was also ground zero for expulsion of Palestininans in 1948, though you won’t hear many talk loudly about that).

     

    A majority of shops, restaurants, people in the street, and people treating you in Yafo are openly Arabs.

    Large groups of Arab men sitting outside smoking, large groups of women in Muslim dress and Arabs smoking shisha outside, with a few Jewish hipster discos and bars (and luxury accomodation) mixed around the place.

    The atmosphere in the evening can be a little intimidating if you don't like large groups of Arab guys shouting in corners.

    If you were actually in Yafo, you would that experience (and certainly not have been 'treated better as a European', etc, except that they might try to sell you stuff).

    I was waved through several times. Sorry if you got stopped. The places where security was tightest was Northern Tel Aviv, which is apparently the richest parts. I went into several supermarkets with security and was not taken aside, but some locals were.

     

    They either stop everyone, or wave through everyone. You know your story makes no sense - because you were not there, and invented the story (with some travel review as inspiration).

    I have a vast of experience of Israel. It's the same story - if it's a crowded time they stop everyone, especially foreigners (non-Hebrew speakers). When it's empty, they let through.

    In Northern Tel Aviv, no special security. The security is the same because it's by legal regulation.

    There are lots of American Jews in Tel Aviv, and it would be entirely possible some of them stereotyped me as such when interacting formally in English. Would they treat a (stereotypically rich) American Jew better than a poor Mizrahi local?
     
    No, the difference - as in most countries - if you speak Hebrew or not (or Arabic as you were supposedly now in Yaffo).

    It wasn’t just security-related, though, even in public transportation and similar settings I was notably treated better than Ethiopians and some Mizrahis.

     

    How can a person be treated better in public transport (in the train or the bus?). You get on train and that is that.

    Come on, this Max Blumenthal reading material has led to a strange imaginary story.

    As it happens, Russian-origin Jews have had some racist discrimination against them in Israel. There’s even a slur arsim

     

    Arsim refers to the young hooligan guys (who are playing loud music on the beach). The translation to English is like 'punks'.

    This is an important you will use a lot, if you ever actually come to Israel.

    Max Blumenthal detailed this in his magisterial book. There is an interesting chapter on Russian Jews in Israel and the subtle forms of discrimination they have. Though you are too in love with Israel to absorb that info.

     

    I'm in love with Israel the same way as with any country that I know personally.

    I can spot forgeries and know what is accurate, what is maybe an unfair representation but from someone who is acquainted with subject, and what is invented.

    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv. You have set yourself upon thinking that it is a great city, and your blind love of Israel is obvious. You’re free to believe or not, but if you honestly think I would take great care to impress you, I think you’re delusional about your relative importance to me, no offence.

     

    I don't know or care why you invented the story.

    I just pointed out that it was invention.

    I can see right away that AaronB has actually been there when I read his post above, and that you had not.

    That's just a function of knowing a country yourself.

    Same as if you try to describe the street in my home city (I'll know soon if you had been there or not).
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  45. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    Well AaronB was honest that it was what people had told him.

     

    I've lived in Israel when younger and visited multiple times. Last time in 2009 around. Don't remember exactly.

    Polish Perspective is not that far off. The country does not seem modern. Thailand seems way more modern.

    I've never been to the airport train station, but I was at some Tel Aviv station. It seemed fine, but not ultra modern.

    Jerusalem, especially the nachlaot area, is pretty run down and third world. The Jewish section of the old city is sterile and lifeless and clean. Oh, I was stopped multiple times by an Israeli border guard at the old city gates, and I look very northern European. Also by security in malls in Tel Aviv, who asked me in Hebrew if I had a gun.

    I was also stopped by security getting off the plane, but I had drank half a bottle of vodka on the plane and was not in the best shape. They let me go after a few seconds of questioning.

    Tel Aviv is pretty run down but not terrible. But it lacks sparkle, sophistication, and class - on one trip, I arrived from Istanbul, which is so much more polished and stylish.

    On the whole, the country is pleasingly chaotic and third worldish. It will make you happy to know that I like Israel Dmitry - I think its Jews are much healthier and more human than American Jews, who have lost their minds. Although politically Israelis are insane. I like the freewheeling atmosphere - it reminds me of Asia a bit. I like the grime and dirt. That's character.

    Still, there is something insular and strange about the place, and I get depressed if I stay for too long. Although I would like to go visit again.

    Haven't been 10 years.

    Why don't you just live there Dmitry? You're obviously a Zionist!

    On the whole, the country is pleasingly chaotic and third worldish. It will make you happy to know that I like Israel Dmitry – I think its Jews are much healthier and more human than American Jews, who have lost their minds. Although politically Israelis are insane. I like the freewheeling atmosphere – it reminds me of Asia a bit. I like the grime and dirt. That’s character.

    It depends if you come from the West or the East.

    Some are more chaotic and badly organized cities even than Russia, though a little similar in some ways. (Although still a lot better than Los Angeles, for example.). But chaos in Israel is a bit related to goldrush or economic boom atmosphere.

    In many ways though, it’s as safe as Japan. You can leave your bag in a cafe, and no-one will be scared anyone to steal it (everyone leaves their possession unguarded on the beach). I never saw any physical fighting. I had a person run after me when my bag was open, to tell me it was open. Etc.

    In places like Barcelona, you don’t leave your bag alone for one second. Overall a lot safer and less crazy than walking around Californian cities (which I was doing last summer)

    I find the (daytime) atmosphere of Israel definitely too intense and stressed to want to live there, but it the country/language is one my main hobbies.

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    Overall a lot safer and less crazy than walking around Californian cities (which I was doing last summer)
     
    Why? I thought your precious brown, cuddly Latrinos were all paragons of virtue?
    , @AaronB
    You are right about the safety. I never felt the least bit unsafe there, although I was cheated a few times, which I don't think would happen in Japan. It doesn't quite have the social capital of Japan, and it has both more and less social capital than white Europe.

    For instance, I was always safe in Israel, but I was attacked by a group of white Poles leaving a bar in Krakow. They thought I was English and wanted to beat up English people. Coming from New York where all whites are upper class, I remember thinking how odd it was that nice white people were violently attacking me! But Poles in general were more refined and polite than Israelis.

    And while Israelis in Israel can be quite nice and polite and incredibly helpful and the reputation of rude Israelis is overblown, you are always in danger of experiencing instances of shocking and extraordinary rudeness which is hardly true in Europe or anywhere else I've been. And Israelis overseas can be monsters.

    but it the country/language is one my main hobbies.
     
    I think it is much more than that for you :) Its one of your loves.
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  46. @Polish Perspective
    I have often commented upon the fact that AK seems to have a curious obsession with gay marriage, and transsexuals, as The Ultimate Arbiter of Truth when it comes to how based a country supposedly is. I always counter with this map:

    https://i.imgur.com/DsSXRmi.png

    As a Russian, it is easy to see why you would boost gay marriage as The Defining Issue. But if you care about the historical continuity of your people, it seems like the Czechs do better than most of us, and they seem to be pretty relaxed about it. You may hate gays for whatever reason, but I'd be careful in obsessing over the issue the way AK seems to do as some kind of great canary in the coalmine.

    I largely agree with the 'Frozen in time' hyp0thesis. I do not buy into the theory of some, including far too many insular Polish nationalists, that EE will escape unharmed from the damage of the West.

    One area where I disagree is why the right fails. To my mind, a lot of the right are basically just middle-class conformists. There are two reasons why the left won, in my view:

    A) the left cares about politics to a much greater extent in a proactive way whereas the right often just reacts to what the left does, i.e. a reactive stance. This means that even when the right is weak, the left keeps pushing on. The right often has a static "leave me alone" mentality which is going to lead into passivity and comfort whenever there isn't a strong left to react against. This creates a strong natural barrier to continuous growth.

    B) The left is not afraid at challenging social norms and living with the consequences. Whereas much of even the supposedly "radical" right is absolutely obsessed with normies. But this is illogical. In the 1940s, huge majorities of US whites were against miscegenation. If a leftist followed the advice of today's "radical" right, they would be trying to appeal to normies all the time. But the left went on the furthest-far end and pushed relentlessly. The right always says "well that will cause backlash/blowback" and it does, but by the time it does, the position the left has achieved has been advanced already, so their losses will still put them ahead from where they started. Next time, they can go further.

    Much of the right is obsessed with acceptability, respectability and it is highly conformist. This is natural, in a sense, since many on the right would score high on authoritarianism. There is often a great deal of stress in rightist circles on dressing "right" which often just means "be petty bourgeois" in practice. The optics cuck debate post-Charlottesville is a good example. The "white trashionalists" slur is another. Even if TWP and similar groups had problems, they nevertheless had a revolutionary perspective. If you thought they had issues, then the solution would be to offer an alternative, but one which is still radical. Instead, what many people did was just promote Trumpism like Ricky Vaughn and similar dolts. This quest for respectability is also something I sense in AK's writing, the sense that being assocated with the right is "embarrassing". Fine, but then you'd live your whole life on the left's premises.

    Change ultimately requires some form of sacrifice, and far too many on the right are frankly too cowardly and too conformist to do that. At this point, the charge you get hurled back to you is some moronic shitpost about "READ SIEGE" but that is a nonsense argument. The choice we have before us is not between the current approach, which is reactionary, tame, conformist and some LARPing Waco-style 'insurgency' which will lead nowhere. This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group. This past May 1st, they had not one, but two demonstrations which is not a small feat for a small country like Sweden when you can muster hundreds of peoples at two different locations at the same time. Nordfront, their online publication is huge.

    I am not worried about logistics or even the timeline. There's still plenty of time for even Sweden or a Germany. I am more worried about the inability of many on the right to stop obsessing over what is "embarrassing". If you're more concerned about your social status, you'll never achieve anything. I think the social status mongering is really a reflection of people's delusions that "reform from within" can happen, but in my view, it can't. Power does not cede gracefully, it has to be ripped from their hands and they will see us coming from a mile away. This is also why the "we will take over the GOP" nonsense was always doomed for failure, something Ricky Vaugn and the other morons pushed. It was ironic, to me, that despite Vaugh shilling so much for the GOP, when he got doxxed, no single mainstream GOP personality came out to support him. I doubt many even had heard of him. The only people who would have stood up for him, were the ones he had demonised so they had no incentive. Vaughn was upper-middle class but had no class loyalty and often spoken negatively about lower-class whites. I was disappointed, but not exactly surprised, when I saw that AK praised him, given that AK also reads NRx blogs, which in turn is filled with these middle-class conformists.

    I made a long comment before about why I think that inter-class loyalty goes a long way to explain Germanic success. I noted that in Sweden, even upper-middle class kids like Chris Dulny would openly support NMR, whereas in the US his equivalents (like Vaughn) would demonise such groups and obsess over mainstream acceptance. That's why Sweden has a thriving scene and the US does not.

    A lot of commentary, especially from the neoreactionaries, are just privileged whining by socially comfortable people. Even their phrases ("the Cathedral") gives it away. I would not take much stock in what they have to say, for they have no organisation on the ground. No skin in the game, as Taleb would rightly and acidly point out. That is also a lesson why the AR fell apart. An online movement, especially one so obsessed with appearances, will lead to nowhere.

    Yes, inter-class loyalty does not exist at all in the UK. The last time it existed was in the WW2 era. The upper classes seem to regard the white unskilled underclass as verging on sub-human and are in a deep rage that Brexit means they will not be able to replace them with Europeans. Good post on Israel.

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  47. Mitleser says:
    @Hokie
    Visiting Ukraine recently, it was deeply depressing to see how many Africans have settled in Kiev. Even smaller cities like Poltava had a fair number of Africans. Speaking to a few, pretty much all of them originally arrived as students.

    Since Ukraine's population has been shrinking, the universities have been recruiting foreigners to fill spots. Africans, particularly Igbo from Nigeria, are the largest group, also southern Indians are pretty common too. Kiev Polytechnic Institute's students are probably only about 80% white.

    The same worship of African dancing and music that pollutes America is being introduced there too. At KPI, there was an obese African-American woman teaching a few dozen white students a dance to a rap song that is popular in America.

    Most distressing, there is giant mural of Bob Marley and some other African figures from the 1960s USA counterculture two doors down from the Cossack House (a CasaPound type building a few hundred feet from Maidan). When we were visiting the Ukrainian nationalists there, they didn't seemed to concerned, and cared a lot more about Donetsk and Crimea than packs of Africans roaming around Maidan. The African quarter in the Solomonskaya district also didn't draw any concern from them, even though the nationalist rally was about half a kilometer away.

    The Polish nationalists there seemed pretty pessimistic too. They said that the courts and schools were polluted with leftist ideology just like America in the 1950s, and figured that their successors in 20-30 years would destroy their country, just like our leaders did in America.

    Hopefully you are right, but the trends don't seem promising

    Ukrainians can only avert it if they go full Nork.

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  48. DFH says:
    @Polish Perspective
    I have often commented upon the fact that AK seems to have a curious obsession with gay marriage, and transsexuals, as The Ultimate Arbiter of Truth when it comes to how based a country supposedly is. I always counter with this map:

    https://i.imgur.com/DsSXRmi.png

    As a Russian, it is easy to see why you would boost gay marriage as The Defining Issue. But if you care about the historical continuity of your people, it seems like the Czechs do better than most of us, and they seem to be pretty relaxed about it. You may hate gays for whatever reason, but I'd be careful in obsessing over the issue the way AK seems to do as some kind of great canary in the coalmine.

    I largely agree with the 'Frozen in time' hyp0thesis. I do not buy into the theory of some, including far too many insular Polish nationalists, that EE will escape unharmed from the damage of the West.

    One area where I disagree is why the right fails. To my mind, a lot of the right are basically just middle-class conformists. There are two reasons why the left won, in my view:

    A) the left cares about politics to a much greater extent in a proactive way whereas the right often just reacts to what the left does, i.e. a reactive stance. This means that even when the right is weak, the left keeps pushing on. The right often has a static "leave me alone" mentality which is going to lead into passivity and comfort whenever there isn't a strong left to react against. This creates a strong natural barrier to continuous growth.

    B) The left is not afraid at challenging social norms and living with the consequences. Whereas much of even the supposedly "radical" right is absolutely obsessed with normies. But this is illogical. In the 1940s, huge majorities of US whites were against miscegenation. If a leftist followed the advice of today's "radical" right, they would be trying to appeal to normies all the time. But the left went on the furthest-far end and pushed relentlessly. The right always says "well that will cause backlash/blowback" and it does, but by the time it does, the position the left has achieved has been advanced already, so their losses will still put them ahead from where they started. Next time, they can go further.

    Much of the right is obsessed with acceptability, respectability and it is highly conformist. This is natural, in a sense, since many on the right would score high on authoritarianism. There is often a great deal of stress in rightist circles on dressing "right" which often just means "be petty bourgeois" in practice. The optics cuck debate post-Charlottesville is a good example. The "white trashionalists" slur is another. Even if TWP and similar groups had problems, they nevertheless had a revolutionary perspective. If you thought they had issues, then the solution would be to offer an alternative, but one which is still radical. Instead, what many people did was just promote Trumpism like Ricky Vaughn and similar dolts. This quest for respectability is also something I sense in AK's writing, the sense that being assocated with the right is "embarrassing". Fine, but then you'd live your whole life on the left's premises.

    Change ultimately requires some form of sacrifice, and far too many on the right are frankly too cowardly and too conformist to do that. At this point, the charge you get hurled back to you is some moronic shitpost about "READ SIEGE" but that is a nonsense argument. The choice we have before us is not between the current approach, which is reactionary, tame, conformist and some LARPing Waco-style 'insurgency' which will lead nowhere. This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group. This past May 1st, they had not one, but two demonstrations which is not a small feat for a small country like Sweden when you can muster hundreds of peoples at two different locations at the same time. Nordfront, their online publication is huge.

    I am not worried about logistics or even the timeline. There's still plenty of time for even Sweden or a Germany. I am more worried about the inability of many on the right to stop obsessing over what is "embarrassing". If you're more concerned about your social status, you'll never achieve anything. I think the social status mongering is really a reflection of people's delusions that "reform from within" can happen, but in my view, it can't. Power does not cede gracefully, it has to be ripped from their hands and they will see us coming from a mile away. This is also why the "we will take over the GOP" nonsense was always doomed for failure, something Ricky Vaugn and the other morons pushed. It was ironic, to me, that despite Vaugh shilling so much for the GOP, when he got doxxed, no single mainstream GOP personality came out to support him. I doubt many even had heard of him. The only people who would have stood up for him, were the ones he had demonised so they had no incentive. Vaughn was upper-middle class but had no class loyalty and often spoken negatively about lower-class whites. I was disappointed, but not exactly surprised, when I saw that AK praised him, given that AK also reads NRx blogs, which in turn is filled with these middle-class conformists.

    I made a long comment before about why I think that inter-class loyalty goes a long way to explain Germanic success. I noted that in Sweden, even upper-middle class kids like Chris Dulny would openly support NMR, whereas in the US his equivalents (like Vaughn) would demonise such groups and obsess over mainstream acceptance. That's why Sweden has a thriving scene and the US does not.

    A lot of commentary, especially from the neoreactionaries, are just privileged whining by socially comfortable people. Even their phrases ("the Cathedral") gives it away. I would not take much stock in what they have to say, for they have no organisation on the ground. No skin in the game, as Taleb would rightly and acidly point out. That is also a lesson why the AR fell apart. An online movement, especially one so obsessed with appearances, will lead to nowhere.

    B) The left is not afraid at challenging social norms and living with the consequences. Whereas much of even the supposedly “radical” right is absolutely obsessed with normies. But this is illogical. In the 1940s, huge majorities of US whites were against miscegenation. If a leftist followed the advice of today’s “radical” right, they would be trying to appeal to normies all the time. But the left went on the furthest-far end and pushed relentlessly. The right always says “well that will cause backlash/blowback” and it does, but by the time it does, the position the left has achieved has been advanced already, so their losses will still put them ahead from where they started. Next time, they can go further.

    But left-wing movements like changing the immigration policy, decriminalising homosexual acts and ‘civil-rights’ denied that more extreme consequences would come about. I don’t see any evidence that their more extreme members helped rather than hindered them, the latter was certainly the belief of the leaders of those movements at the time.

    The optics cuck debate post-Charlottesville is a good example. The “white trashionalists” slur is another. Even if TWP and similar groups had problems, they nevertheless had a revolutionary perspective. If you thought they had issues, then the solution would be to offer an alternative, but one which is still radical. Instead, what many people did was just promote Trumpism like Ricky Vaughn and similar dolts. This quest for respectability is also something I sense in AK’s writing, the sense that being assocated with the right is “embarrassing”. Fine, but then you’d live your whole life on the left’s premises.

    The TWP was a failure in any terms, with virtually no support. It was tiny and insignificant even by the standards of far-right movements. Ditto for anti-British dress up group NA.

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  49. gate666 says:
    @Spisarevski

    I’m not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people)

     

    There is no difference. It's all one huge slippery slope, which contrary to leftist assertions is not a "fallacy". There is also zero benefit to be had from sodomite "marriage", giving defective freaks the same rights and recognition as normal families and allowing them to adopt children.

    Tolerance towards disgusting faggots appears together and in parallel with vegan protests, poison colored hair, aping everything western SJWs do, historic revisionism in history textbooks, media censorship, and ever more shitskin faces that I see every day in the Sofia metro.

    A few days ago there was also a video of a feral negress beating up a man in public transport apparently because he used the standard Bulgarian word for a black woman. It's like I was watching a video from Sweden or Britbongistan - some white cuck taking abuse and other people around him sitting uselessly. Never thought I would see something like this here.

    https://i.imgur.com/q1VUrLb.jpg

    donald trump supported gay marriage .

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  50. gate666 says:
    @AaronB
    Greasy my dear fellow, you do not mean that 100% literally. Because you are not insane.

    Lots of liberals are that way because they have a strong idealistic streak and no one told them about spiritual perfection. All religions are corrupted and have become just about a set of restrictions whose purpose isn't clear or worse, are explained as about limiting human freedom because we're weak. There's nothing to satisfy an idealistic streak in that. And the only other option is the Right, which is about lower level concerns like order and safety - which are important, but aren't enough. Look at you, Greasy - you're willing to fight Israel's wars out of some sense of mission. Clearly order and safety aren't what you're primarily after.

    Equality is an ideal on the spiritual level but on earth inequality is real. But in a secular world, people don't understand there are two levels of reality with different rules. Secularism only accepts one world - so the proper outlet for idealism is denied and forced into grotesque channels.

    Anatoly laments the low human capital of the Right - that's because high quality people are naturally idealistic. Anatoly himself is idealistic - he wants to transcend the human condition.

    If you killed all liberals, you'd kill most of the worlds high quality people. That's a painful fact we have to face. The way to fight liberalism is provide an alternative idealism. But the Left has been the only idealism in town for quite some time - which is why they keep on winning.

    Religion has to be sold as about the glorious quest for human perfection - not a set of restrictions. Tradition has to be about more than a set of rules but the quest for perfection.

    But as long as the world is secular, the Left is the only game in town. That's another painful fact to face.

    religiosity is inversely proportional to iq.

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    religiosity is inversely proportional to iq.
     
    Of course it is, because conformism is positively correlated with high IQ.
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  51. fnn says:
    @Polish Perspective
    I have often commented upon the fact that AK seems to have a curious obsession with gay marriage, and transsexuals, as The Ultimate Arbiter of Truth when it comes to how based a country supposedly is. I always counter with this map:

    https://i.imgur.com/DsSXRmi.png

    As a Russian, it is easy to see why you would boost gay marriage as The Defining Issue. But if you care about the historical continuity of your people, it seems like the Czechs do better than most of us, and they seem to be pretty relaxed about it. You may hate gays for whatever reason, but I'd be careful in obsessing over the issue the way AK seems to do as some kind of great canary in the coalmine.

    I largely agree with the 'Frozen in time' hyp0thesis. I do not buy into the theory of some, including far too many insular Polish nationalists, that EE will escape unharmed from the damage of the West.

    One area where I disagree is why the right fails. To my mind, a lot of the right are basically just middle-class conformists. There are two reasons why the left won, in my view:

    A) the left cares about politics to a much greater extent in a proactive way whereas the right often just reacts to what the left does, i.e. a reactive stance. This means that even when the right is weak, the left keeps pushing on. The right often has a static "leave me alone" mentality which is going to lead into passivity and comfort whenever there isn't a strong left to react against. This creates a strong natural barrier to continuous growth.

    B) The left is not afraid at challenging social norms and living with the consequences. Whereas much of even the supposedly "radical" right is absolutely obsessed with normies. But this is illogical. In the 1940s, huge majorities of US whites were against miscegenation. If a leftist followed the advice of today's "radical" right, they would be trying to appeal to normies all the time. But the left went on the furthest-far end and pushed relentlessly. The right always says "well that will cause backlash/blowback" and it does, but by the time it does, the position the left has achieved has been advanced already, so their losses will still put them ahead from where they started. Next time, they can go further.

    Much of the right is obsessed with acceptability, respectability and it is highly conformist. This is natural, in a sense, since many on the right would score high on authoritarianism. There is often a great deal of stress in rightist circles on dressing "right" which often just means "be petty bourgeois" in practice. The optics cuck debate post-Charlottesville is a good example. The "white trashionalists" slur is another. Even if TWP and similar groups had problems, they nevertheless had a revolutionary perspective. If you thought they had issues, then the solution would be to offer an alternative, but one which is still radical. Instead, what many people did was just promote Trumpism like Ricky Vaughn and similar dolts. This quest for respectability is also something I sense in AK's writing, the sense that being assocated with the right is "embarrassing". Fine, but then you'd live your whole life on the left's premises.

    Change ultimately requires some form of sacrifice, and far too many on the right are frankly too cowardly and too conformist to do that. At this point, the charge you get hurled back to you is some moronic shitpost about "READ SIEGE" but that is a nonsense argument. The choice we have before us is not between the current approach, which is reactionary, tame, conformist and some LARPing Waco-style 'insurgency' which will lead nowhere. This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group. This past May 1st, they had not one, but two demonstrations which is not a small feat for a small country like Sweden when you can muster hundreds of peoples at two different locations at the same time. Nordfront, their online publication is huge.

    I am not worried about logistics or even the timeline. There's still plenty of time for even Sweden or a Germany. I am more worried about the inability of many on the right to stop obsessing over what is "embarrassing". If you're more concerned about your social status, you'll never achieve anything. I think the social status mongering is really a reflection of people's delusions that "reform from within" can happen, but in my view, it can't. Power does not cede gracefully, it has to be ripped from their hands and they will see us coming from a mile away. This is also why the "we will take over the GOP" nonsense was always doomed for failure, something Ricky Vaugn and the other morons pushed. It was ironic, to me, that despite Vaugh shilling so much for the GOP, when he got doxxed, no single mainstream GOP personality came out to support him. I doubt many even had heard of him. The only people who would have stood up for him, were the ones he had demonised so they had no incentive. Vaughn was upper-middle class but had no class loyalty and often spoken negatively about lower-class whites. I was disappointed, but not exactly surprised, when I saw that AK praised him, given that AK also reads NRx blogs, which in turn is filled with these middle-class conformists.

    I made a long comment before about why I think that inter-class loyalty goes a long way to explain Germanic success. I noted that in Sweden, even upper-middle class kids like Chris Dulny would openly support NMR, whereas in the US his equivalents (like Vaughn) would demonise such groups and obsess over mainstream acceptance. That's why Sweden has a thriving scene and the US does not.

    A lot of commentary, especially from the neoreactionaries, are just privileged whining by socially comfortable people. Even their phrases ("the Cathedral") gives it away. I would not take much stock in what they have to say, for they have no organisation on the ground. No skin in the game, as Taleb would rightly and acidly point out. That is also a lesson why the AR fell apart. An online movement, especially one so obsessed with appearances, will lead to nowhere.

    Brings to mind a passage from Shirer’s famous book:

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2010/06/henry-williamson/

    The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along the road between Aachen and Brussels one saw the contrasts between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth-tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars. (Shirer, p. 256)

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    • Replies: @utu
    What's funny is that even in Hollywood movies Germans manage to look good. Is it because they pick extras among Nordic looking actors who are good looking to us because they are Nordic or is it the appeal of Hugo Boss uniform?

    Very true about how Brits treated and treat their lower classes. This attitude crossed Atlantic to America where in older times loathing was acceptable with respect to poor immigrants but now it is poor withes, white trash and poor Southerners on whom there is an open season and no protective umbrella is extended over them, including a common decency. The left can be vicious. They take no prisoners.
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  52. @Spisarevski

    I’m not too worried about Eastern Europe letting Third Worlders to immigrate there en masse. After all, there is a huge difference between a change of attitudes on same-sex marriage (which is harmless and even beneficial for some people)

     

    There is no difference. It's all one huge slippery slope, which contrary to leftist assertions is not a "fallacy". There is also zero benefit to be had from sodomite "marriage", giving defective freaks the same rights and recognition as normal families and allowing them to adopt children.

    Tolerance towards disgusting faggots appears together and in parallel with vegan protests, poison colored hair, aping everything western SJWs do, historic revisionism in history textbooks, media censorship, and ever more shitskin faces that I see every day in the Sofia metro.

    A few days ago there was also a video of a feral negress beating up a man in public transport apparently because he used the standard Bulgarian word for a black woman. It's like I was watching a video from Sweden or Britbongistan - some white cuck taking abuse and other people around him sitting uselessly. Never thought I would see something like this here.

    https://i.imgur.com/q1VUrLb.jpg

    I could have easily imagined something like this to happen in countries like Croatia. But Bulgaria? That’s sad.

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  53. @Greasy William
    All liberals and immigrants need to be killed. I mean that 100% literally. Once they are all dead we can worry about what comes next. Talking about what kind of society we want while even a single liberal or immigrant draws breath is premature.

    If the ever do a documentary about unz.com in the MSM I could imagine this comment will be chosen an cited out of the tens of thousands of comments already posted.

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    • LOL: German_reader
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    And in Unz2, it will be presented as an example of a Jewish hate hoax.

    Everything's perfect.
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  54. @gate666
    religiosity is inversely proportional to iq.

    religiosity is inversely proportional to iq.

    Of course it is, because conformism is positively correlated with high IQ.

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  55. @BlackFlag
    Europeans are simply too inhibited. It's probably a good trait for individuals but leads to disastrous results for the group.

    One solution if to medicate this. Imagine if all the right were completely unhibited for a week. It could lead to the critical mass of dissent/rebellion to turn the tired as this is a positive feedback dynamic. Or are there just not enough numbers?

    While superficially attractive, you can’t get order out of disorder – which I think is a central takeaway from Mr. Karlin’s original blog. In that sense, you’re probably better off establishing weird tiny cults rather than attempting to create the world’s largest footballer riot.

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  56. neutral says:

    Too much blackpilling from Karlin.

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  57. @Dmitry

    On the whole, the country is pleasingly chaotic and third worldish. It will make you happy to know that I like Israel Dmitry – I think its Jews are much healthier and more human than American Jews, who have lost their minds. Although politically Israelis are insane. I like the freewheeling atmosphere – it reminds me of Asia a bit. I like the grime and dirt. That’s character.
     
    It depends if you come from the West or the East.

    Some are more chaotic and badly organized cities even than Russia, though a little similar in some ways. (Although still a lot better than Los Angeles, for example.). But chaos in Israel is a bit related to goldrush or economic boom atmosphere.

    In many ways though, it's as safe as Japan. You can leave your bag in a cafe, and no-one will be scared anyone to steal it (everyone leaves their possession unguarded on the beach). I never saw any physical fighting. I had a person run after me when my bag was open, to tell me it was open. Etc.

    In places like Barcelona, you don't leave your bag alone for one second. Overall a lot safer and less crazy than walking around Californian cities (which I was doing last summer)

    I find the (daytime) atmosphere of Israel definitely too intense and stressed to want to live there, but it the country/language is one my main hobbies.

    Overall a lot safer and less crazy than walking around Californian cities (which I was doing last summer)

    Why? I thought your precious brown, cuddly Latrinos were all paragons of virtue?

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    For example, when I was in San Francisco last summer, I was a bit more shocked by some African American groups running around fighting in the street.

    My hotel was next to Union Square. On one side was really nicer, and elitest. But then walking in the other direction for about 2 minutes (I can't remember which direction exactly), and it was a really shady area with a lot of groups of blacks guys running in the street and pushing each other.

    But you know the general atmosphere is a little chaotic - walking in San Francisco in the evening, we even were wondering how there were quite a few random mentally ill (white) people walking next to you and shouting things at the moon.

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  58. Wency says:
    @AaronB
    Right, most social conservatives just want us to go back a few decades. How is that going to compete with the Lefts grand vision of social perfection, utopia on Earth? There's no chance

    Even Karlins Transhunanism has a much better chance of offering a genuine alternative to the Left. Or Daniel Chieh's race to the stars.

    The Middle Ages was at least based on working to achieve a Heavenly utopia. Once that wasn't believed in anymore, the natural default position is to work towards an earthly utopia. That's why the Left will keep on winning and winning and winning. It's literally the only game in town.

    Nationalism isn't a utopia. It may be a practical necessity in a violent world. And I support it. But it isn't a grand quest toward human perfection such as traditional religion offered or the Left offers today.

    Also, nationalism was never divorced from the quest for utopia. Each nation saw itself as uniquely capable of realizing utopia. It had some kind of world mission, or it was a unique center of values. Even Ethiopia as discussed over on Karlins open thread saw itself as not just a country but a civilization. A center of unique values.

    The Right today advocates nationalism out of practical reasons, making the same mistake it always has. White nationalism is necessary because other groups practice identity politics. This is true, but since it isn't tied to the quest for human perfection, is it enough? Vox Day loves to go on about how white nationalism is inevitable because it is practically necessary. He's right, but he doesn't realize how he's failing to develop a really strong alternative to the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    Merely practical nationalism is weak, because it's always also practical to come to an accommodate with the enemy or even surrender to him entirely in order to survive. Even becoming Muslim may be considered highly practical by many Europeans - and I am sure will be, when the time comes.

    There is some attempt on the Right to make European culture the center of unique values like science - but the emphasis is always on white communities being comfortable and well ordered places to live. "Whitopia" is unique among utopias for meaning primarily order and comfort. Which are good things, but can't compete with the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    And Tradition has come to mean placing limits and restrictions on human nature since it is weak, in order to create order. This is an insipid vision. In fact, Tradition is about a grand quest for spiritual perfection, and the rules and restrictions support that goal. But in a secular world, even the Right can't admit that.

    Mankind must constantly be progressing towards a utopia of some kind. At least most people. That much is clear. And any political movement not based around that will render itself irrelevant.

    I think all of this is basically true — the idea of returning to your grandparents’ values because they were superior just never seems to be persuasive. This is one reason why Cthulhu swims as he does.

    The usual mechanism for reversing leftism is the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings (with terror and slaughter). And it’s pretty reliable. At present, the mechanism for this would seem to be the conquest of the West by culturally and genetically more conservative Middle Eastern and African peoples.

    Unfortunately, our goal is to conserve the good things about our society and not to conserve conservatism itself. I understand the intent of neoreaction to be reversing the tide while skipping the terror and slaughter, and safeguarding against it in the future. But you’re right that no one has really articulated a vision.

    My personal opinion, coming from the U.S. perspective, is that the only real hope is the return of Christianity in a more resilient form, driven by the differential fertility of Christians, and particularly of certain Christian sub-groups. The Amish and Mennonites being extreme examples, but also things like the Quiverfull movement. But there’s even a non-denom church down the road from me that has a pro-natal theology, including a pastor with 13 kids and couples averaging 4-5 kids once their families are “complete”.

    While there are a lot of initial defections, over time these groups are able to combine a pro-natal subculture with people who are genetically disposed to remaining within the group and perhaps to natalism itself.

    The Left has many advantages, but one key disadvantage it suffers from is anti-natalism, and indeed its ideology becomes more anti-natal by the year. While declining civilizations have always had anti-natal tendencies, no civilization has ever been nearly so anti-natal as ours. This allows groups with a radical pro-natal vision to have a larger impact than has ever before been possible. And outside Christianity, there’s not really an intellectual avenue for radical pro-natalism in the West.

    Unfortunately, none of this is too relevant to our lifetimes, but I suspect the white population of the 22nd century will be shaped primarily by the phenomena I describe here, barring some massive technology-driven realignment.

    Gnon, at present, is selecting aggressively for natalism, natalism, and more natalism. Among groups, among people, and among ideas.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Right.

    The problem is that the Right never offered a vision of progress. Today we see traditional societies as static, but traditional societies saw themselves as based on a vision of progress just as much as the Left. They were radically progressive, it was just spiritual.

    All societies seem based on some notion of progress. When the Right began to sell stasis, it was doomed. It just continued losing and losing.

    The Lefts version of progress is inherently destructive, so in the long run it will lose. But not to a vision of stasis. Humanity will destroy itself before it rests content with a vision of stasis.

    You're right that people on the left are not reproducing and that will likely doom it - it's also s sign their version of progress is false.

    I agree that a return to religion in the West is the only real alternative to the Left. Because the Left offers an increasingly optimized version of secular progress. Its the only game in town if you reject religion. Only religion offers a vision of progress that might compete with the Left.

    Will it be Christianity? Maybe. But look at Karlins transhumanism - that's not secular, its religious. Or Chieh's space colonization.

    There are many ways a religious version of progress might return. Ultimately I think you're right that only traditional Christianity or traditional religion will win out, because I think their version of spiritual progress is real, whereas transhumanism is a misunderstanding of traditional religion.
    , @songbird

    At present, the mechanism for this would seem to be the conquest of the West by culturally and genetically more conservative Middle Eastern and African peoples.
     
    Africans are not conservative. If they were a country like Lesotho wouldn't have an 25% HIV infection rate. They aren't 1/4 homosexuals, so that they are so infected should be considered something to really marvel at. Basically, it requires an amazing level of whoring - really amazingly high, not normal stuff.
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  59. AaronB says:
    @Wency
    I think all of this is basically true -- the idea of returning to your grandparents' values because they were superior just never seems to be persuasive. This is one reason why Cthulhu swims as he does.

    The usual mechanism for reversing leftism is the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings (with terror and slaughter). And it's pretty reliable. At present, the mechanism for this would seem to be the conquest of the West by culturally and genetically more conservative Middle Eastern and African peoples.

    Unfortunately, our goal is to conserve the good things about our society and not to conserve conservatism itself. I understand the intent of neoreaction to be reversing the tide while skipping the terror and slaughter, and safeguarding against it in the future. But you're right that no one has really articulated a vision.

    My personal opinion, coming from the U.S. perspective, is that the only real hope is the return of Christianity in a more resilient form, driven by the differential fertility of Christians, and particularly of certain Christian sub-groups. The Amish and Mennonites being extreme examples, but also things like the Quiverfull movement. But there's even a non-denom church down the road from me that has a pro-natal theology, including a pastor with 13 kids and couples averaging 4-5 kids once their families are "complete".

    While there are a lot of initial defections, over time these groups are able to combine a pro-natal subculture with people who are genetically disposed to remaining within the group and perhaps to natalism itself.

    The Left has many advantages, but one key disadvantage it suffers from is anti-natalism, and indeed its ideology becomes more anti-natal by the year. While declining civilizations have always had anti-natal tendencies, no civilization has ever been nearly so anti-natal as ours. This allows groups with a radical pro-natal vision to have a larger impact than has ever before been possible. And outside Christianity, there's not really an intellectual avenue for radical pro-natalism in the West.

    Unfortunately, none of this is too relevant to our lifetimes, but I suspect the white population of the 22nd century will be shaped primarily by the phenomena I describe here, barring some massive technology-driven realignment.

    Gnon, at present, is selecting aggressively for natalism, natalism, and more natalism. Among groups, among people, and among ideas.

    Right.

    The problem is that the Right never offered a vision of progress. Today we see traditional societies as static, but traditional societies saw themselves as based on a vision of progress just as much as the Left. They were radically progressive, it was just spiritual.

    All societies seem based on some notion of progress. When the Right began to sell stasis, it was doomed. It just continued losing and losing.

    The Lefts version of progress is inherently destructive, so in the long run it will lose. But not to a vision of stasis. Humanity will destroy itself before it rests content with a vision of stasis.

    You’re right that people on the left are not reproducing and that will likely doom it – it’s also s sign their version of progress is false.

    I agree that a return to religion in the West is the only real alternative to the Left. Because the Left offers an increasingly optimized version of secular progress. Its the only game in town if you reject religion. Only religion offers a vision of progress that might compete with the Left.

    Will it be Christianity? Maybe. But look at Karlins transhumanism – that’s not secular, its religious. Or Chieh’s space colonization.

    There are many ways a religious version of progress might return. Ultimately I think you’re right that only traditional Christianity or traditional religion will win out, because I think their version of spiritual progress is real, whereas transhumanism is a misunderstanding of traditional religion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    What's your opinion of Nazism btw? Whatever else may be said about it, it did offer a very powerful utopian idea (the Volksgemeinschaft in which all prior conflicts of class, political persusasion etc. are transcended in a harmonious racial community based on solidarity and meritocracy) and inspired its believers to immense sacrifices.
    So would some sort of revived Nazism, maybe with Odinism or some sort of ancestor cult as its spiritual element, be to your liking? Since you've told us that even the human sacrifices of the Aztecs are preferable to modern secularism, could you really object on any ethical grounds?
    , @Pericles

    You’re right that people on the left are not reproducing and that will likely doom it – it’s also s sign their version of progress is false.

     

    Brown leftists reproduce, and there you have the future of leftism.
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  60. @AaronB
    Right.

    The problem is that the Right never offered a vision of progress. Today we see traditional societies as static, but traditional societies saw themselves as based on a vision of progress just as much as the Left. They were radically progressive, it was just spiritual.

    All societies seem based on some notion of progress. When the Right began to sell stasis, it was doomed. It just continued losing and losing.

    The Lefts version of progress is inherently destructive, so in the long run it will lose. But not to a vision of stasis. Humanity will destroy itself before it rests content with a vision of stasis.

    You're right that people on the left are not reproducing and that will likely doom it - it's also s sign their version of progress is false.

    I agree that a return to religion in the West is the only real alternative to the Left. Because the Left offers an increasingly optimized version of secular progress. Its the only game in town if you reject religion. Only religion offers a vision of progress that might compete with the Left.

    Will it be Christianity? Maybe. But look at Karlins transhumanism - that's not secular, its religious. Or Chieh's space colonization.

    There are many ways a religious version of progress might return. Ultimately I think you're right that only traditional Christianity or traditional religion will win out, because I think their version of spiritual progress is real, whereas transhumanism is a misunderstanding of traditional religion.

    What’s your opinion of Nazism btw? Whatever else may be said about it, it did offer a very powerful utopian idea (the Volksgemeinschaft in which all prior conflicts of class, political persusasion etc. are transcended in a harmonious racial community based on solidarity and meritocracy) and inspired its believers to immense sacrifices.
    So would some sort of revived Nazism, maybe with Odinism or some sort of ancestor cult as its spiritual element, be to your liking? Since you’ve told us that even the human sacrifices of the Aztecs are preferable to modern secularism, could you really object on any ethical grounds?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    To be really honest, it wouldn't have been so successful if it didn't offer a compelling vision. A half century after its total defeat, you wouldn't have a continuing core of genuine Neo-Nazis and various imitators of at least its style and form if it wasn't built over something that speaks to the human nature.
    , @AaronB
    I think I've said somewhere that Nazism had many appealing aspects. But overall it was a grotesque hybrid of the worst aspects of Judaism, secularism, and materialism, and some occult elements thrown in.

    The socialism and brotherhood element are great and necessary. But the hatred and conquest element - bad. The mythic poetic element was necessary, though needs to be better done.

    Also it tried to be a religion but was materialistic. For instance Hitler was ready to give up on the German people because of one defeat. That's pathetic. That's not how you do religion. But if you're materialistic, you can't think in terms of eternity.

    But it should be a lesson to us how you can inspire millions to self sacrifice and heroism if you have a vision. Even a corrupted one.

    I love Norse mythology! Many beautiful and noble elements. But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go. They supplanted paganism everywhere in the world for a reason. They are higher.

    Would Norse religion be better than secular modernity? Undoubtedly.
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  61. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    On the whole, the country is pleasingly chaotic and third worldish. It will make you happy to know that I like Israel Dmitry – I think its Jews are much healthier and more human than American Jews, who have lost their minds. Although politically Israelis are insane. I like the freewheeling atmosphere – it reminds me of Asia a bit. I like the grime and dirt. That’s character.
     
    It depends if you come from the West or the East.

    Some are more chaotic and badly organized cities even than Russia, though a little similar in some ways. (Although still a lot better than Los Angeles, for example.). But chaos in Israel is a bit related to goldrush or economic boom atmosphere.

    In many ways though, it's as safe as Japan. You can leave your bag in a cafe, and no-one will be scared anyone to steal it (everyone leaves their possession unguarded on the beach). I never saw any physical fighting. I had a person run after me when my bag was open, to tell me it was open. Etc.

    In places like Barcelona, you don't leave your bag alone for one second. Overall a lot safer and less crazy than walking around Californian cities (which I was doing last summer)

    I find the (daytime) atmosphere of Israel definitely too intense and stressed to want to live there, but it the country/language is one my main hobbies.

    You are right about the safety. I never felt the least bit unsafe there, although I was cheated a few times, which I don’t think would happen in Japan. It doesn’t quite have the social capital of Japan, and it has both more and less social capital than white Europe.

    For instance, I was always safe in Israel, but I was attacked by a group of white Poles leaving a bar in Krakow. They thought I was English and wanted to beat up English people. Coming from New York where all whites are upper class, I remember thinking how odd it was that nice white people were violently attacking me! But Poles in general were more refined and polite than Israelis.

    And while Israelis in Israel can be quite nice and polite and incredibly helpful and the reputation of rude Israelis is overblown, you are always in danger of experiencing instances of shocking and extraordinary rudeness which is hardly true in Europe or anywhere else I’ve been. And Israelis overseas can be monsters.

    but it the country/language is one my main hobbies.

    I think it is much more than that for you :) Its one of your loves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    And while Israelis in Israel can be quite nice and polite and incredibly helpful and the reputation of rude Israelis is overblown, you are always in danger of experiencing instances of shocking and extraordinary rudeness which is hardly true in Europe or anywhere else I’ve been. And Israelis overseas can be monsters.

     

    There's no Western customer service, people in the shops working is grumpy. People who work in shops think it is below their level, and act like they do a favour for the customers. And the Russian-speaking women, and the Mizrahi guys, usually seem the most grumpy.

    When I wanted a refund in the train station, and I fill in the form (I put my signature in the wrong place), and the guy is acting like 'you fucking idiot'.

    But the social capital is very high - in the case of seeing strangers helping old people with shopping bags, or that they chase after you to tell you your bag is open. If you ask for directions, they can try to take you to the place. And of course, it is very safe outside of a few illegal immigrant area (kids could walk through the city park in the middle of the night, I would not worry).

    This is representative of my experiences:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWW7LUTIKWU
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  62. @German_reader
    What's your opinion of Nazism btw? Whatever else may be said about it, it did offer a very powerful utopian idea (the Volksgemeinschaft in which all prior conflicts of class, political persusasion etc. are transcended in a harmonious racial community based on solidarity and meritocracy) and inspired its believers to immense sacrifices.
    So would some sort of revived Nazism, maybe with Odinism or some sort of ancestor cult as its spiritual element, be to your liking? Since you've told us that even the human sacrifices of the Aztecs are preferable to modern secularism, could you really object on any ethical grounds?

    To be really honest, it wouldn’t have been so successful if it didn’t offer a compelling vision. A half century after its total defeat, you wouldn’t have a continuing core of genuine Neo-Nazis and various imitators of at least its style and form if it wasn’t built over something that speaks to the human nature.

    Read More
    • Agree: reiner Tor
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  63. Pericles says:
    @AaronB
    Right, most social conservatives just want us to go back a few decades. How is that going to compete with the Lefts grand vision of social perfection, utopia on Earth? There's no chance

    Even Karlins Transhunanism has a much better chance of offering a genuine alternative to the Left. Or Daniel Chieh's race to the stars.

    The Middle Ages was at least based on working to achieve a Heavenly utopia. Once that wasn't believed in anymore, the natural default position is to work towards an earthly utopia. That's why the Left will keep on winning and winning and winning. It's literally the only game in town.

    Nationalism isn't a utopia. It may be a practical necessity in a violent world. And I support it. But it isn't a grand quest toward human perfection such as traditional religion offered or the Left offers today.

    Also, nationalism was never divorced from the quest for utopia. Each nation saw itself as uniquely capable of realizing utopia. It had some kind of world mission, or it was a unique center of values. Even Ethiopia as discussed over on Karlins open thread saw itself as not just a country but a civilization. A center of unique values.

    The Right today advocates nationalism out of practical reasons, making the same mistake it always has. White nationalism is necessary because other groups practice identity politics. This is true, but since it isn't tied to the quest for human perfection, is it enough? Vox Day loves to go on about how white nationalism is inevitable because it is practically necessary. He's right, but he doesn't realize how he's failing to develop a really strong alternative to the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    Merely practical nationalism is weak, because it's always also practical to come to an accommodate with the enemy or even surrender to him entirely in order to survive. Even becoming Muslim may be considered highly practical by many Europeans - and I am sure will be, when the time comes.

    There is some attempt on the Right to make European culture the center of unique values like science - but the emphasis is always on white communities being comfortable and well ordered places to live. "Whitopia" is unique among utopias for meaning primarily order and comfort. Which are good things, but can't compete with the Lefts grand quest for perfection.

    And Tradition has come to mean placing limits and restrictions on human nature since it is weak, in order to create order. This is an insipid vision. In fact, Tradition is about a grand quest for spiritual perfection, and the rules and restrictions support that goal. But in a secular world, even the Right can't admit that.

    Mankind must constantly be progressing towards a utopia of some kind. At least most people. That much is clear. And any political movement not based around that will render itself irrelevant.

    We’ll give you UTOPIA, don’t worry.

    The catch: It’s NEGRO UTOPIA. Enjoy!

    Read More
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  64. Pericles says:
    @AaronB
    Greasy my dear fellow, you do not mean that 100% literally. Because you are not insane.

    Lots of liberals are that way because they have a strong idealistic streak and no one told them about spiritual perfection. All religions are corrupted and have become just about a set of restrictions whose purpose isn't clear or worse, are explained as about limiting human freedom because we're weak. There's nothing to satisfy an idealistic streak in that. And the only other option is the Right, which is about lower level concerns like order and safety - which are important, but aren't enough. Look at you, Greasy - you're willing to fight Israel's wars out of some sense of mission. Clearly order and safety aren't what you're primarily after.

    Equality is an ideal on the spiritual level but on earth inequality is real. But in a secular world, people don't understand there are two levels of reality with different rules. Secularism only accepts one world - so the proper outlet for idealism is denied and forced into grotesque channels.

    Anatoly laments the low human capital of the Right - that's because high quality people are naturally idealistic. Anatoly himself is idealistic - he wants to transcend the human condition.

    If you killed all liberals, you'd kill most of the worlds high quality people. That's a painful fact we have to face. The way to fight liberalism is provide an alternative idealism. But the Left has been the only idealism in town for quite some time - which is why they keep on winning.

    Religion has to be sold as about the glorious quest for human perfection - not a set of restrictions. Tradition has to be about more than a set of rules but the quest for perfection.

    But as long as the world is secular, the Left is the only game in town. That's another painful fact to face.

    If you killed all liberals, you’d kill most of the worlds high quality people.

    Lol, now you’re just high. Just a few years after flittering off to find your true idealistic self at Berkeley, you will be hunched over your adopted gay son, giving him the gift of the bug with your feminine penis. Because you are the highest quality of people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    High quality people are idealistic. IQ tests and statistics and math and science show this beyond any doubt.

    The Right has trouble attracting high quality human capital because it lacks idealism and offers a fatalistic vision of life strictly bounded by limits. But humans yearn for the infinite.

    Many liberals are not liberals in their "essence" - the biggest mistake you can make us to think of people "essentialistically". Are Europeans natural cucks or the world's greatest warrior people?

    Many liberals are that way because the modern secular world does not offer them any other way to satisfy their idealism and reach after the infinite.

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  65. songbird says:
    @Wency
    I think all of this is basically true -- the idea of returning to your grandparents' values because they were superior just never seems to be persuasive. This is one reason why Cthulhu swims as he does.

    The usual mechanism for reversing leftism is the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings (with terror and slaughter). And it's pretty reliable. At present, the mechanism for this would seem to be the conquest of the West by culturally and genetically more conservative Middle Eastern and African peoples.

    Unfortunately, our goal is to conserve the good things about our society and not to conserve conservatism itself. I understand the intent of neoreaction to be reversing the tide while skipping the terror and slaughter, and safeguarding against it in the future. But you're right that no one has really articulated a vision.

    My personal opinion, coming from the U.S. perspective, is that the only real hope is the return of Christianity in a more resilient form, driven by the differential fertility of Christians, and particularly of certain Christian sub-groups. The Amish and Mennonites being extreme examples, but also things like the Quiverfull movement. But there's even a non-denom church down the road from me that has a pro-natal theology, including a pastor with 13 kids and couples averaging 4-5 kids once their families are "complete".

    While there are a lot of initial defections, over time these groups are able to combine a pro-natal subculture with people who are genetically disposed to remaining within the group and perhaps to natalism itself.

    The Left has many advantages, but one key disadvantage it suffers from is anti-natalism, and indeed its ideology becomes more anti-natal by the year. While declining civilizations have always had anti-natal tendencies, no civilization has ever been nearly so anti-natal as ours. This allows groups with a radical pro-natal vision to have a larger impact than has ever before been possible. And outside Christianity, there's not really an intellectual avenue for radical pro-natalism in the West.

    Unfortunately, none of this is too relevant to our lifetimes, but I suspect the white population of the 22nd century will be shaped primarily by the phenomena I describe here, barring some massive technology-driven realignment.

    Gnon, at present, is selecting aggressively for natalism, natalism, and more natalism. Among groups, among people, and among ideas.

    At present, the mechanism for this would seem to be the conquest of the West by culturally and genetically more conservative Middle Eastern and African peoples.

    Africans are not conservative. If they were a country like Lesotho wouldn’t have an 25% HIV infection rate. They aren’t 1/4 homosexuals, so that they are so infected should be considered something to really marvel at. Basically, it requires an amazing level of whoring – really amazingly high, not normal stuff.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wency
    They are conservative in that they are much more aligned with their traditional cultural practices than with the Leftist mind-virus. Some practices that are traditional to them, such as higher levels of promiscuity, are radical and distasteful to ours. Just as praying to Mecca is radical and distasteful to us, but traditional to the Islamic world. That's the nature of different cultures.
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  66. Pericles says:
    @AaronB
    Right.

    The problem is that the Right never offered a vision of progress. Today we see traditional societies as static, but traditional societies saw themselves as based on a vision of progress just as much as the Left. They were radically progressive, it was just spiritual.

    All societies seem based on some notion of progress. When the Right began to sell stasis, it was doomed. It just continued losing and losing.

    The Lefts version of progress is inherently destructive, so in the long run it will lose. But not to a vision of stasis. Humanity will destroy itself before it rests content with a vision of stasis.

    You're right that people on the left are not reproducing and that will likely doom it - it's also s sign their version of progress is false.

    I agree that a return to religion in the West is the only real alternative to the Left. Because the Left offers an increasingly optimized version of secular progress. Its the only game in town if you reject religion. Only religion offers a vision of progress that might compete with the Left.

    Will it be Christianity? Maybe. But look at Karlins transhumanism - that's not secular, its religious. Or Chieh's space colonization.

    There are many ways a religious version of progress might return. Ultimately I think you're right that only traditional Christianity or traditional religion will win out, because I think their version of spiritual progress is real, whereas transhumanism is a misunderstanding of traditional religion.

    You’re right that people on the left are not reproducing and that will likely doom it – it’s also s sign their version of progress is false.

    Brown leftists reproduce, and there you have the future of leftism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    Not so fast... the non-white birth rate is crashing. The white is treading water, so to speak. While non-whites have demographic momentum, their crash is worse than even Eastern Europe in the 1990's (see the USA Hispanic birth rate). The problem lies with mass immigration.
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  67. Pericles says:

    Going on about the ‘Swine Right’ seems to me a sign of moral relativism, another symptom of leftism as it happens. When there are no universal moral values, at least I can fulminate about someone being a hypocrite. And that someone happens to be not ‘Swine Left’ or ‘Swine Islam’ but of course … the ‘Right’.

    Read More
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  68. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    , I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better.
     
    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    The trains and their stations are overall really nice.

    The problem is the bus station - which is the opposite (like you have entered Africa). I don't like the train station next to that bus station, but even it is perfectly modern as in Europe.


    The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.
     
    It depends on the streets - the expensive ones would impress. The overall building quality is very low in most of the city. Although skyscrapers are building everywhere, like in a 'boom town'.

    Atmosphere though in the expensive parts of the city is something else.


    Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly).

     

    The buses are the same in the two cities. (Egged is a bus company).

    The difference is that Jerusalem has built the light rail which you would have used, if you had visited.


    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped.
     
    They stop everyone (unless it's out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I'm a light Northern European appeared man - makes no difference.

    You invented a kind of dumb story.


    For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way.

     

    Lol you got "treated better than" the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?

    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven't done?

    It's pretty weird and obviously cobbled together from some travel reviews you read, but with lots of imagination added.

    You and Okechukwu need to get a room with his hired "Russian security "

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/sweden-no/#comment-2344966

    I don’t know if he is making it up. Two things I would say:

    It is known that Israelis racially profile. They do it because they are sensible, and it works. I think it speaks well of them than otherwise, although you do have to be careful, as a lot of the terrorists against the French in North African picked more European-looking women to plant their bombs.

    I live near Boston. I think it is like the #8 financial center in the world. Home to a lot of important research. Certainly, an important American city. And there are times that I’ve been in the subway, and if you had the light, you could grow potatoes down there, on the trains – they are that dirty. I never saw this in another country but perhaps I never rode at the right time. More than 95% percent of the subway does not impress, still it is an important city.

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  69. @Niccolo Salo
    I'll turn to this later but first off:

    "but the gay pride parade in Zagreb is not only huge"

    lol, no it isn't.

    "but even the most fearless football hooligans were easily convinced not to give any resistance to the new wave of human rights."

    So much so that a referendum ended up enshrining the defintion of marriage as between a man and a woman in the country's constitution.

    Alarmism is common in the ex-communist countries of Europe but it only serves to distort the actual picture which does us no good.

    I just read the full entry by Arpad Virag.

    It is complete bullshit.

    I have to ask you Karlin: what makes you, generally a smart guy, so naive as to buy such bullshit without applying any critical thinking?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Perhaps you should invite him to Salo for a meet in the Shoutbox. It could be fun.
    , @peterAUS
    Agree.

    My take: Organize Karlin's visit to Herzegovina. Give him a good guide/translator and have him visit a couple of places there. Have him speak with common people.

    And, should you feel generous, get him "over the line". Have him visit the part to the East.

    And, should you really feel generous, get him to visit the region along the Drina river.

    I am sure he'll expand his understanding of the region and people. He'll probably edit the article.
    As, quote:
    "I just read the full entry by Arpad Virag.

    It is complete bullshit."
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  70. Anonymous[104] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    , I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better.
     
    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    The trains and their stations are overall really nice.

    The problem is the bus station - which is the opposite (like you have entered Africa). I don't like the train station next to that bus station, but even it is perfectly modern as in Europe.


    The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.
     
    It depends on the streets - the expensive ones would impress. The overall building quality is very low in most of the city. Although skyscrapers are building everywhere, like in a 'boom town'.

    Atmosphere though in the expensive parts of the city is something else.


    Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly).

     

    The buses are the same in the two cities. (Egged is a bus company).

    The difference is that Jerusalem has built the light rail which you would have used, if you had visited.


    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped.
     
    They stop everyone (unless it's out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I'm a light Northern European appeared man - makes no difference.

    You invented a kind of dumb story.


    For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way.

     

    Lol you got "treated better than" the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?

    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven't done?

    It's pretty weird and obviously cobbled together from some travel reviews you read, but with lots of imagination added.

    You and Okechukwu need to get a room with his hired "Russian security "

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/sweden-no/#comment-2344966

    Odd response from you, you are obviously getting emotional. Polish commentator is a top 10 commentator and should have the credibility to not be accused of fabrication without better evidence. You as another top 10 commentator should maintain your standard of quality in comments.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    No - I just saw in a few lines that he had invented the whole story.

    He knows it and I know it. Not such a big deal either way (I guess he is a young guy).
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  71. @Niccolo Salo
    I just read the full entry by Arpad Virag.

    It is complete bullshit.

    I have to ask you Karlin: what makes you, generally a smart guy, so naive as to buy such bullshit without applying any critical thinking?

    Perhaps you should invite him to Salo for a meet in the Shoutbox. It could be fun.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    There is a certain subset of hard rightists in ex-communist countries who have been socialized on 4chan and internet memes and have internalized American political, cultural and social narratives to the point that they end up applying it to their own countries when it really can't be done.

    This manifests itself in alarmism and is really a 'hey, we're just like you' special plea. Almost all of these types have never spent a significant amount of time in the Anglosphere and really don't have anything tangible to compare their situation with.

    It's as sad as relying on polling to learn about countries.

    These types are generally nerds with low social intelligence and usually end up actually embracing the more hilarious types of #HBD rejects.

    And for those who are nerds I will quantify it for you: Arpad says that Pride in Zagreb is 'beyond huge'. Metro Zagreb has 1 million residents and some 5,000 people turn out for Pride every year, over which half come from outside the country as either NGO types or their homosexual partners. Toronto and its suburbs has 6 million residents and around 1.5 million turn out for Pride there year after year after year after year.

    It's frustrating how naive people can be when all it takes is going to a country and spending time there in various locales to learn about what life is like there and then applying some critical thinking and engaging in comparisons with other places one has lived in/been to.
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  72. AP says:
    @Hokie
    Visiting Ukraine recently, it was deeply depressing to see how many Africans have settled in Kiev. Even smaller cities like Poltava had a fair number of Africans. Speaking to a few, pretty much all of them originally arrived as students.

    Since Ukraine's population has been shrinking, the universities have been recruiting foreigners to fill spots. Africans, particularly Igbo from Nigeria, are the largest group, also southern Indians are pretty common too. Kiev Polytechnic Institute's students are probably only about 80% white.

    The same worship of African dancing and music that pollutes America is being introduced there too. At KPI, there was an obese African-American woman teaching a few dozen white students a dance to a rap song that is popular in America.

    Most distressing, there is giant mural of Bob Marley and some other African figures from the 1960s USA counterculture two doors down from the Cossack House (a CasaPound type building a few hundred feet from Maidan). When we were visiting the Ukrainian nationalists there, they didn't seemed to concerned, and cared a lot more about Donetsk and Crimea than packs of Africans roaming around Maidan. The African quarter in the Solomonskaya district also didn't draw any concern from them, even though the nationalist rally was about half a kilometer away.

    The Polish nationalists there seemed pretty pessimistic too. They said that the courts and schools were polluted with leftist ideology just like America in the 1950s, and figured that their successors in 20-30 years would destroy their country, just like our leaders did in America.

    Hopefully you are right, but the trends don't seem promising

    Visiting Ukraine recently, it was deeply depressing to see how many Africans have settled in Kiev. Even smaller cities like Poltava had a fair number of Africans. Speaking to a few, pretty much all of them originally arrived as students.

    I was there in 2017, and didn’t notice any significant number. They were very rare, as in Moscow (the ones I saw in Moscow this April were mostly given jobs yelling out advertisements on the street, such as to come to a restaurant, in heavily-accented Russian). I wasn’t looking out for them, of course.

    Kiev has about 3 million people (unofficially perhaps 4 million). Percentage of Africans is miniscule.

    Look at random youtube videos of Kiev’s streets and you’ll see about zero Africans. Like here:

    One Indian, one eastern Asian, literally every other single person is white out of a few hundred in the video.

    Kiev subway:

    Whites only.

    Kiev Polytechnic Institute’s students are probably only about 80% white.

    Interesting. I know an African physician in the USA who had studied in Ukraine. Nice person, intelligent. Speaks both Russian and Ukrainian decently.

    Interview with African leader in Ukraine:

    Estimates 20,000 Africans in Ukraine. Apparently the largest chicken farm in Zaporizhia (Eastern Ukraine) is owned by a Nigerian.

    When we were visiting the Ukrainian nationalists there, they didn’t seemed to concerned, and cared a lot more about Donetsk and Crimea than packs of Africans roaming around Maidan.

    Because the latter doesn’t happen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    There's no such thing as too few African invaders. Trust me - they are the tip of the spear. I saw them set up their toehold in Dublin, Ireland in the early '90s, and it has only grown since then, and the others too. It is really disturbing to see such a face in a country village, and that comes just a little later than the main cities.

    The wrong trend is the wrong trend.
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  73. utu says:
    @fnn
    Brings to mind a passage from Shirer's famous book:
    https://www.counter-currents.com/2010/06/henry-williamson/

    The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along the road between Aachen and Brussels one saw the contrasts between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth-tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars. (Shirer, p. 256)
     

    What’s funny is that even in Hollywood movies Germans manage to look good. Is it because they pick extras among Nordic looking actors who are good looking to us because they are Nordic or is it the appeal of Hugo Boss uniform?

    Very true about how Brits treated and treat their lower classes. This attitude crossed Atlantic to America where in older times loathing was acceptable with respect to poor immigrants but now it is poor withes, white trash and poor Southerners on whom there is an open season and no protective umbrella is extended over them, including a common decency. The left can be vicious. They take no prisoners.

    Read More
    • Replies: @22pp22
    The Left really do take no prisoners as those who tried to stand up to grooming gangs found out.

    They didn't attack them on the issue of grooming gangs. They would find some weak point, any weak point, and attack them on that.

    The Left regard their enemies as demon spawn and they will destroy them by any means at their disposal.

    They are relentless, pitiless, self-righteous and they have NO conscience.
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    And that's why it's important for rural and Southern whites to completely tune out the mainstream media, and focus again on self-reliance. That's what the whole region and culture was founded upon. Unfortunately, many have instead turned to drugs and alcohol.
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  74. @Daniel Chieh
    Perhaps you should invite him to Salo for a meet in the Shoutbox. It could be fun.

    There is a certain subset of hard rightists in ex-communist countries who have been socialized on 4chan and internet memes and have internalized American political, cultural and social narratives to the point that they end up applying it to their own countries when it really can’t be done.

    This manifests itself in alarmism and is really a ‘hey, we’re just like you’ special plea. Almost all of these types have never spent a significant amount of time in the Anglosphere and really don’t have anything tangible to compare their situation with.

    It’s as sad as relying on polling to learn about countries.

    These types are generally nerds with low social intelligence and usually end up actually embracing the more hilarious types of #HBD rejects.

    And for those who are nerds I will quantify it for you: Arpad says that Pride in Zagreb is ‘beyond huge’. Metro Zagreb has 1 million residents and some 5,000 people turn out for Pride every year, over which half come from outside the country as either NGO types or their homosexual partners. Toronto and its suburbs has 6 million residents and around 1.5 million turn out for Pride there year after year after year after year.

    It’s frustrating how naive people can be when all it takes is going to a country and spending time there in various locales to learn about what life is like there and then applying some critical thinking and engaging in comparisons with other places one has lived in/been to.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Is alarmism such a bad thing? If you don't destroy the beginnings of cancer, how do you prevent it from metasizing? It seems concerning if there's a parade of five thousand people and no "lax security" to allow hooligans to do what is necessary. If the immune system has been disabled, then you can only expect the sickness to spread as it becomes obvious that virtue-signaling for the poz is profitable and status-earning.
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  75. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective
    I was in Israel a few years ago. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem as well as the occupied territories. I was going in thinking that Tel Aviv was going to the most impressive city. That delusion got crushed already at the airport. For a country supposedly close to France in nominal GDP per capita, I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better. The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.

    Jerusalem, contrary to my expectations, was actually much nice. It was far cleaner, for one, which I didn't understand. All the Israelis in Tel Aviv insisted that only religious crazies and brutes lived there. Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly). Going into the ultra-Orthodox neighbourhoods was interesting. I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing "immodestly" and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt. I didn't get stared at, nor did anyone try to correct me in any way.

    The pushiness and the filthy squalor of Tel Aviv was replaced by a polite orderliness. You could see the poverty in these Haredi neighbourhoods, but you could also see the community spirit. There were no drunks, no bums. The kids (and there were huge amounts of them) were all playing in the streets. I was surprised by the high number of women which worked in corner shops and the like. Apparently, I later found out, Haredi women work in greater numbers than men since the men focus a great deal on learning the Torah. Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive. Of course, once they shed their religious upbrining and get into communism and similar things, our judgement must change.

    The visit to the territories were similarly enlightening. To say that Palestinians live in a cage, is to glorify cages. I visited Hebron. The settlers had scrawled pushed them into narrow alleys down in the valley, which allowed them to stone them(!) from above whenever they felt like it and they often did. We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out. I doubt she got far. We also saw the wall, and how Israel had systematically built up a network of watch towers dissecting the landscape in order to cut off Palestinian villages from each other. It was a very clever system, but at the same time a very evil one. It wasn't hard to see how it was next to impossible to do a real rebellion even if you were clever. A substantial part of the entire state apparatus was dedicated to this objective and the only real way to achieve some form of pressure is to activate the outside world, but as we've seen with Trump, the Israelis basically control the US foreign policy in MENA, especially with regards to this conflict.

    Finally, speaking of Israeli architecture, here's another "masterpiece":

    https://i.imgur.com/bhNUnU9.jpg

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan, which is not even that impoverished. Notice the buildings in the background. Israel might have nice weather, but the many towns look like something ripped out of the Balkans in large sections. No wonder they prize their Bauhaus architectural legacy (which wasn't nearly as common as I thought it would). Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I'd take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day. Give it 15 years, and you'll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian. World Jewry will add sufficient pressure to make sure there are no rejections and our 'based' governments will fold.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I'm a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women. I certainly didn't try to LARP as a Jew and never pretended to be one either when asked.

    When I was at the airport, I was waved through with almost no questions asked. Tel Aviv airport is otherwise famous for racial profiling non-white citizens of Western countries (the assumption is that they are pro-Palestinian by default) by asking a ton of questions. Sometimes people get shoved into siderooms and interrogated for hours on the flimsiest of suspicions. Israelis also had a bad sense of time management and when I asked about it, they were blunt about their "Mediterranean" mentality. They apparently thought I was German so they would often say "this isn't Germany" with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another. For a brief moment, I probably understood what it meant to be a disapora Jew. Maybe it's time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)

    Very interesting. Somehow I had this image of Tel Aviv as modern good looking and well run European city, a new Pearl of Mediterranean, a better non-Muslim version of Beirut and you have just destroyed it. Also I thought that Israel was more egalitarian which implied no slums. This perhaps was more true in the early phase of the Israeli when socialist and Kibbutzim ideas were still alive. Do Jews treat other Jews better and show greater solidarity when they live among ‘hostile’ gentile majority? Does the ‘anti-semitism’ of ‘hostile’ gentile majority makes them to conform to more ‘civilized’ ways makes them better humans?

    Total Rubbish: Why Is Israel So Filthy?

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/#comment-2353632

    Israel’s heavy bureaucracy leads to corruption, think tank says

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-heavy-bureaucracy-leads-to-corruption-think-tank-says/

    Are Israelis Rude? Learning Not To Be Polite In Israel

    http://therayve.blogspot.com/2010/09/are-israelis-rude-learning-not-to-be.html

    Jewish towns, ghettos and shtetls were always known for their ‘balagan’ and ‘bardak’. Also they were known for their directness and redness. What is interesting that I heard several times from American and Israeli Jews that when forced to talk bout it on account of Israel they try to explain that this the leftover of habits they picked up from primitive Russian and Polish peasants. Also they blame the over-the-top inflexible and capricious bureaucracy that treat clients like dirt on Tsarist bureaucracy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Tel Aviv was built in the 1950s, and then suffered a kind of Detroit like depopulation and economic crash in the 1970s. (So parts are like Detroit)

    It's the more shabby-building city in Israel. Until about 2000, when it starts to enter an economic boom.

    So now, at the same time there are a lot of new clean buildings, and restorations.


    The new restored buildings are like:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BGnTIMMfdw


    And the not nice parts can be

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MNpmlqUglE


    What is interesting that I heard several times from American and Israeli Jews that when forced to talk bout it on account of Israel they try to explain that this the leftover of habits they picked up from primitive Russian and Polish peasants. Also they blame the over-the-top inflexible and capricious bureaucracy that treat clients like dirt on Tsarist bureaucracy.
     
    Ashdod (working class town, with a lot of Moroccan and Russians), is very clean, modern, and sterile (kind of opposite of Tel Aviv).

    The interesting thing is it is a lot poorer.

    The reason is the historical time of development. Ashdod was constructed mainly in the 1980s, when Israel was a middle income country.

    Tel Aviv constructed in the 1950s (when Israel was low-income). And then went through depopulation and economic collapse through 1960s-1990s.

    And then economic boom from the 2000s. So the current situation is a heavy contrast between the third-world and first world buildings.

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  76. songbird says:
    @AP

    Visiting Ukraine recently, it was deeply depressing to see how many Africans have settled in Kiev. Even smaller cities like Poltava had a fair number of Africans. Speaking to a few, pretty much all of them originally arrived as students.
     
    I was there in 2017, and didn't notice any significant number. They were very rare, as in Moscow (the ones I saw in Moscow this April were mostly given jobs yelling out advertisements on the street, such as to come to a restaurant, in heavily-accented Russian). I wasn't looking out for them, of course.

    Kiev has about 3 million people (unofficially perhaps 4 million). Percentage of Africans is miniscule.

    Look at random youtube videos of Kiev's streets and you'll see about zero Africans. Like here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-NX0IA015c

    One Indian, one eastern Asian, literally every other single person is white out of a few hundred in the video.

    Kiev subway:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9NOd2gesmw

    Whites only.


    Kiev Polytechnic Institute’s students are probably only about 80% white.
     
    Interesting. I know an African physician in the USA who had studied in Ukraine. Nice person, intelligent. Speaks both Russian and Ukrainian decently.

    Interview with African leader in Ukraine:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGEpGB9U1g

    Estimates 20,000 Africans in Ukraine. Apparently the largest chicken farm in Zaporizhia (Eastern Ukraine) is owned by a Nigerian.


    When we were visiting the Ukrainian nationalists there, they didn’t seemed to concerned, and cared a lot more about Donetsk and Crimea than packs of Africans roaming around Maidan.
     
    Because the latter doesn't happen.

    There’s no such thing as too few African invaders. Trust me – they are the tip of the spear. I saw them set up their toehold in Dublin, Ireland in the early ’90s, and it has only grown since then, and the others too. It is really disturbing to see such a face in a country village, and that comes just a little later than the main cities.

    The wrong trend is the wrong trend.

    Read More
    • Agree: German_reader
    • Replies: @AP

    There’s no such thing as too few African invaders. Trust me – they are the tip of the spear. I saw them set up their toehold in Dublin,
     
    I didn't notice a toehold in Ukraine nor in Russia. They were basically none there before and none more recently either. 20,000 Africans in Ukraine, with about 40 million people, is basically zero.

    Here is Kiev in November 2017:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3993Ik_9FYI

    Do you see a toehold of any kind? I don't think the weird dancer at 9:50 or so counts.

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  77. Dmitry says:
    @utu
    Very interesting. Somehow I had this image of Tel Aviv as modern good looking and well run European city, a new Pearl of Mediterranean, a better non-Muslim version of Beirut and you have just destroyed it. Also I thought that Israel was more egalitarian which implied no slums. This perhaps was more true in the early phase of the Israeli when socialist and Kibbutzim ideas were still alive. Do Jews treat other Jews better and show greater solidarity when they live among 'hostile' gentile majority? Does the 'anti-semitism' of 'hostile' gentile majority makes them to conform to more 'civilized' ways makes them better humans?

    Total Rubbish: Why Is Israel So Filthy?
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/#comment-2353632
     

    Israel’s heavy bureaucracy leads to corruption, think tank says
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-heavy-bureaucracy-leads-to-corruption-think-tank-says/

     


    Are Israelis Rude? Learning Not To Be Polite In Israel
    http://therayve.blogspot.com/2010/09/are-israelis-rude-learning-not-to-be.html
     
    Jewish towns, ghettos and shtetls were always known for their 'balagan' and 'bardak'. Also they were known for their directness and redness. What is interesting that I heard several times from American and Israeli Jews that when forced to talk bout it on account of Israel they try to explain that this the leftover of habits they picked up from primitive Russian and Polish peasants. Also they blame the over-the-top inflexible and capricious bureaucracy that treat clients like dirt on Tsarist bureaucracy.

    Tel Aviv was built in the 1950s, and then suffered a kind of Detroit like depopulation and economic crash in the 1970s. (So parts are like Detroit)

    It’s the more shabby-building city in Israel. Until about 2000, when it starts to enter an economic boom.

    So now, at the same time there are a lot of new clean buildings, and restorations.

    The new restored buildings are like:

    And the not nice parts can be

    What is interesting that I heard several times from American and Israeli Jews that when forced to talk bout it on account of Israel they try to explain that this the leftover of habits they picked up from primitive Russian and Polish peasants. Also they blame the over-the-top inflexible and capricious bureaucracy that treat clients like dirt on Tsarist bureaucracy.

    Ashdod (working class town, with a lot of Moroccan and Russians), is very clean, modern, and sterile (kind of opposite of Tel Aviv).

    The interesting thing is it is a lot poorer.

    The reason is the historical time of development. Ashdod was constructed mainly in the 1980s, when Israel was a middle income country.

    Tel Aviv constructed in the 1950s (when Israel was low-income). And then went through depopulation and economic collapse through 1960s-1990s.

    And then economic boom from the 2000s. So the current situation is a heavy contrast between the third-world and first world buildings.

    Read More
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  78. AaronB says:
    @German_reader
    What's your opinion of Nazism btw? Whatever else may be said about it, it did offer a very powerful utopian idea (the Volksgemeinschaft in which all prior conflicts of class, political persusasion etc. are transcended in a harmonious racial community based on solidarity and meritocracy) and inspired its believers to immense sacrifices.
    So would some sort of revived Nazism, maybe with Odinism or some sort of ancestor cult as its spiritual element, be to your liking? Since you've told us that even the human sacrifices of the Aztecs are preferable to modern secularism, could you really object on any ethical grounds?

    I think I’ve said somewhere that Nazism had many appealing aspects. But overall it was a grotesque hybrid of the worst aspects of Judaism, secularism, and materialism, and some occult elements thrown in.

    The socialism and brotherhood element are great and necessary. But the hatred and conquest element – bad. The mythic poetic element was necessary, though needs to be better done.

    Also it tried to be a religion but was materialistic. For instance Hitler was ready to give up on the German people because of one defeat. That’s pathetic. That’s not how you do religion. But if you’re materialistic, you can’t think in terms of eternity.

    But it should be a lesson to us how you can inspire millions to self sacrifice and heroism if you have a vision. Even a corrupted one.

    I love Norse mythology! Many beautiful and noble elements. But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go. They supplanted paganism everywhere in the world for a reason. They are higher.

    Would Norse religion be better than secular modernity? Undoubtedly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    But the hatred and conquest element – bad.
     
    Why is it bad in your world view?

    But if you’re materialistic, you can’t think in terms of eternity.
     
    A thousand year Reich, with all its eschatological connotations, does sound like striving for eternity to me.

    But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go.
     
    That love has historically been mostly directed only at the religious ingroup whereas different standards applied for dealings with heathen, heretics, unbelievers etc. Islam is pretty much like this even today.
    Many Nazis would probably have said that Nazism was fundamentally about love of the German people.
    , @Anarcho-Supremacist
    You know what would have really helped the Nazi's out? If they would have considered Jews honorary Aryans!
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  79. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.
     
    I was there in 2015, and from what I understand you were there much more recently, so either they did a much-needed renovation in the meantime or your standards are lower than mine.

    It depends on the streets – the expensive ones would impress.
     
    We lived in the Yafo neighbourhood, which is supposedly a "up-and-coming" hipster neighbourhood(it was also ground zero for expulsion of Palestininans in 1948, though you won't hear many talk loudly about that).

    I certainly did see many expensive and hip restaurants, but the sqaulor was still there, nestled around it. I was also moving towards the center of a city a lot, primarily Rothschild Avenue (I believe it is called), which is their main artery and I was similarly unimpressed. I will say that TA has great amounts of restaurants.

    They stop everyone (unless it’s out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I’m a light Northern European appeared man – makes no difference.
     

    I was waved through several times. Sorry if you got stopped. The places where security was tightest was Northern Tel Aviv, which is apparently the richest parts. I went into several supermarkets with security and was not taken aside, but some locals were.

    Lol you got “treated better than” the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?
     
    To the extent I talked, I used English, so it would be fair they assumed I was an American given that I am pretty fluent. The only people who guessed I was German was when I revealed I was from Europe, but that wasn't in security-related situations but average Israelis. There are lots of American Jews in Tel Aviv, and it would be entirely possible some of them stereotyped me as such when interacting formally in English. Would they treat a (stereotypically rich) American Jew better than a poor Mizrahi local?

    It wasn't just security-related, though, even in public transportation and similar settings I was notably treated better than Ethiopians and some Mizrahis.

    As it happens, Russian-origin Jews have had some racist discrimination against them in Israel. There's even a slur arsim which is used against Russians, even though it started as a slur against those with a Middle Eastern background(regardless of religion) from the Ashkenazi native-born class.

    Max Blumenthal detailed this in his magisterial book. There is an interesting chapter on Russian Jews in Israel and the subtle forms of discrimination they have. Though you are too in love with Israel to absorb that info.


    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven’t done?
     

    obviously cobbled together
     

    You invented a kind of dumb story.
     
    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv. You have set yourself upon thinking that it is a great city, and your blind love of Israel is obvious. You're free to believe or not, but if you honestly think I would take great care to impress you, I think you're delusional about your relative importance to me, no offence.

    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv.

    I had this long discussion with Dimitry about the rate of plastic surgeries in Israel in comparison to the US and he fought it as if he was a Texan defending Alamo. Neither of us had definitive data to settle the issue so there was a room for interpretation form the limited data we had. I sensed that his stance was coming form this idealized Israel where shit does not stink which is more pure than the rest of the world that he wanted to believe in. Early Zionist believed and preached that all evils will be left behind in Eastern Europeans ghettos and shtetls and a New Jewish Man will be reborn in Eretz Israel and afterward they will all live happily ever after. How possibly girls would need or want to have nose jobs in a paradise like that?

    Look how shabby, out of shape and somewhat ‘racially inferior’ these IDF soldiers in Auschwitz look:

    Read More
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  80. AaronB says:
    @Pericles

    If you killed all liberals, you’d kill most of the worlds high quality people.

     

    Lol, now you're just high. Just a few years after flittering off to find your true idealistic self at Berkeley, you will be hunched over your adopted gay son, giving him the gift of the bug with your feminine penis. Because you are the highest quality of people.

    High quality people are idealistic. IQ tests and statistics and math and science show this beyond any doubt.

    The Right has trouble attracting high quality human capital because it lacks idealism and offers a fatalistic vision of life strictly bounded by limits. But humans yearn for the infinite.

    Many liberals are not liberals in their “essence” – the biggest mistake you can make us to think of people “essentialistically”. Are Europeans natural cucks or the world’s greatest warrior people?

    Many liberals are that way because the modern secular world does not offer them any other way to satisfy their idealism and reach after the infinite.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles
    The Right has no access to the long-term deep indoctrination centres, that's why it has some trouble attracting students hailing therefrom. It's certainly less fatalistic than the Left, which is secular, materialistic, nihilistic and so on.

    Liberal idealism springs from intellectual vanity and lack of experience, and some conformism and virtue signaling. I read this interesting science article on buzzfeed; oh I'm actually a PhD in Psychology; of course we together can implement utopia (which will be like a university department but with plentiful funding and everyone has tenure).
    , @Silva
    "Are Europeans natural cucks or the world’s greatest warrior people?"

    Both, and the first causes the second. Right or wrong, I say this from the outside with the utmost respect - but no small worry (Polish Perspective's whitepills on Sweden (!) notwithstanding).
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  81. @AaronB
    I think I've said somewhere that Nazism had many appealing aspects. But overall it was a grotesque hybrid of the worst aspects of Judaism, secularism, and materialism, and some occult elements thrown in.

    The socialism and brotherhood element are great and necessary. But the hatred and conquest element - bad. The mythic poetic element was necessary, though needs to be better done.

    Also it tried to be a religion but was materialistic. For instance Hitler was ready to give up on the German people because of one defeat. That's pathetic. That's not how you do religion. But if you're materialistic, you can't think in terms of eternity.

    But it should be a lesson to us how you can inspire millions to self sacrifice and heroism if you have a vision. Even a corrupted one.

    I love Norse mythology! Many beautiful and noble elements. But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go. They supplanted paganism everywhere in the world for a reason. They are higher.

    Would Norse religion be better than secular modernity? Undoubtedly.

    But the hatred and conquest element – bad.

    Why is it bad in your world view?

    But if you’re materialistic, you can’t think in terms of eternity.

    A thousand year Reich, with all its eschatological connotations, does sound like striving for eternity to me.

    But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go.

    That love has historically been mostly directed only at the religious ingroup whereas different standards applied for dealings with heathen, heretics, unbelievers etc. Islam is pretty much like this even today.
    Many Nazis would probably have said that Nazism was fundamentally about love of the German people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    I don't support hatred and conquest because I believe in the underlying spiritual unity of mankind - really of all phenomena including animals. I think Ahimsa is basically correct as a principle. We are all One. All great spiritual teachers without exception have had this insight.

    However, I distinguish between the corporeal realm and the spiritual realm. Humans function best as part of groups. Without group love, humans become selfish individualists. They do not become loving universalists. So while keeping an eye on the ultimate spiritual ideal of Oneness, we must organise into groups of nations. There will be wars and conflict. But this world will never be prefect.

    A thousand year Reich is nothing. Every religion seeks eternity and infinity. And one defeat and the Germans are worthless? Hitler's racial loyalty was weak. Because it was based on materialism.

    You are right historically love was directed at the in group. This is better than self love. In this fallen world, group love is necessary. But this is a step on the path to universal love. Of course, it often will fall into inter group hatred.

    Islam is s universal religion. And it has high ethical standards towards non Muslims at its best. However, it does show preference to Muslims while keeping the path open for everyone to become Muslim. Of course historically Islam was frequently corrupted and acted appallingly. While not ideal, and Buddhism does a better job, its on a high level.

    The point is there is no perfect solution in this sublunary world - we must choose the best option. Selfish individualism is the worst and least loving.

    Nazism was about loving Germans yes - but in the corrupted form of group love where others are hated. Plus, it had no options for others to join the master race, unlike Islam, and had zero ethical standards for treating out group members. Much lower than Islam.
    , @peterAUS

    Nazism was fundamentally about love of the German people.
     
    Could be.

    The problem was, is, it was also fundamentally about.... disdain (perhaps) for Slavic people.
    Disdain at least......Some would even say hate. More to the East from German borders, more of that sentiment......

    Not much love for Anglos either. More than for Slavs, of course, but still.

    So, selling that to Whites can't work well. Plenty of those are of Slavic stock.

    Now, some form of National-Socialism is another matter. Augh, did I just say "socialism"? Bad...bad word for the "right".

    So, there was, is, definitely something with Nazi ideology. From deep about human nature to organization of society. How much of that something was/is "reusable" could be debatable. Could. Most of the time isn't.

    Related to that "isn't", I am hoping you aren't going to challenge that sentiment re Slavic people. Plenty of such characters on this board already. I just skip over their posts. Nothing personal. As I skip over vegan posts re food etc.
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  82. AP says:
    @songbird
    There's no such thing as too few African invaders. Trust me - they are the tip of the spear. I saw them set up their toehold in Dublin, Ireland in the early '90s, and it has only grown since then, and the others too. It is really disturbing to see such a face in a country village, and that comes just a little later than the main cities.

    The wrong trend is the wrong trend.

    There’s no such thing as too few African invaders. Trust me – they are the tip of the spear. I saw them set up their toehold in Dublin,

    I didn’t notice a toehold in Ukraine nor in Russia. They were basically none there before and none more recently either. 20,000 Africans in Ukraine, with about 40 million people, is basically zero.

    Here is Kiev in November 2017:

    Do you see a toehold of any kind? I don’t think the weird dancer at 9:50 or so counts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    By "toehold" what I mean is not so much a military strength, so much as an information network. How many of those seemingly few blacks are in communication with their families in Africa? I bet pretty near all of them, and I guarantee you the ones in the Ukraine are the envy of the ones in Africa. The women alone would make it a paradise compared to Nigeria.

    When you've seen your first hair straightening or weave salon - the first businesses catering specifically to blacks, then you will begin to appreciate their numbers.

    My point is not that the Ukraine has turned, merely that it is not safe, unless very proactive. It has happened too many times to be complacent about it. Before Western Europe, it was US metropolitan areas during the Great Migration of blacks from the South. Detroit used to be called the Paris of the West.
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  83. Dmitry says:
    @Polish Perspective

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.
     
    I was there in 2015, and from what I understand you were there much more recently, so either they did a much-needed renovation in the meantime or your standards are lower than mine.

    It depends on the streets – the expensive ones would impress.
     
    We lived in the Yafo neighbourhood, which is supposedly a "up-and-coming" hipster neighbourhood(it was also ground zero for expulsion of Palestininans in 1948, though you won't hear many talk loudly about that).

    I certainly did see many expensive and hip restaurants, but the sqaulor was still there, nestled around it. I was also moving towards the center of a city a lot, primarily Rothschild Avenue (I believe it is called), which is their main artery and I was similarly unimpressed. I will say that TA has great amounts of restaurants.

    They stop everyone (unless it’s out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I’m a light Northern European appeared man – makes no difference.
     

    I was waved through several times. Sorry if you got stopped. The places where security was tightest was Northern Tel Aviv, which is apparently the richest parts. I went into several supermarkets with security and was not taken aside, but some locals were.

    Lol you got “treated better than” the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?
     
    To the extent I talked, I used English, so it would be fair they assumed I was an American given that I am pretty fluent. The only people who guessed I was German was when I revealed I was from Europe, but that wasn't in security-related situations but average Israelis. There are lots of American Jews in Tel Aviv, and it would be entirely possible some of them stereotyped me as such when interacting formally in English. Would they treat a (stereotypically rich) American Jew better than a poor Mizrahi local?

    It wasn't just security-related, though, even in public transportation and similar settings I was notably treated better than Ethiopians and some Mizrahis.

    As it happens, Russian-origin Jews have had some racist discrimination against them in Israel. There's even a slur arsim which is used against Russians, even though it started as a slur against those with a Middle Eastern background(regardless of religion) from the Ashkenazi native-born class.

    Max Blumenthal detailed this in his magisterial book. There is an interesting chapter on Russian Jews in Israel and the subtle forms of discrimination they have. Though you are too in love with Israel to absorb that info.


    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven’t done?
     

    obviously cobbled together
     

    You invented a kind of dumb story.
     
    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv. You have set yourself upon thinking that it is a great city, and your blind love of Israel is obvious. You're free to believe or not, but if you honestly think I would take great care to impress you, I think you're delusional about your relative importance to me, no offence.

    I was there in 2015, and from what I understand you were there much more recently, so either they did a much-needed renovation in the meantime or your standards are lower than mine.

    It’s a made-up story, I know from a lot of different reasons.

    I don’t know/care why (I guess because you read the Blumenthal book, and some Polish travel reviews?) – but I can see it’s fake very easily, because all the opposites.

    I know you make up the trip and so do you. So what’s the use of pretending.

    We lived in the Yafo neighbourhood, which is supposedly a “up-and-coming” hipster neighbourhood(it was also ground zero for expulsion of Palestininans in 1948, though you won’t hear many talk loudly about that).

    A majority of shops, restaurants, people in the street, and people treating you in Yafo are openly Arabs.

    Large groups of Arab men sitting outside smoking, large groups of women in Muslim dress and Arabs smoking shisha outside, with a few Jewish hipster discos and bars (and luxury accomodation) mixed around the place.

    The atmosphere in the evening can be a little intimidating if you don’t like large groups of Arab guys shouting in corners.

    If you were actually in Yafo, you would that experience (and certainly not have been ‘treated better as a European’, etc, except that they might try to sell you stuff).

    I was waved through several times. Sorry if you got stopped. The places where security was tightest was Northern Tel Aviv, which is apparently the richest parts. I went into several supermarkets with security and was not taken aside, but some locals were.

    They either stop everyone, or wave through everyone. You know your story makes no sense – because you were not there, and invented the story (with some travel review as inspiration).

    I have a vast of experience of Israel. It’s the same story – if it’s a crowded time they stop everyone, especially foreigners (non-Hebrew speakers). When it’s empty, they let through.

    In Northern Tel Aviv, no special security. The security is the same because it’s by legal regulation.

    There are lots of American Jews in Tel Aviv, and it would be entirely possible some of them stereotyped me as such when interacting formally in English. Would they treat a (stereotypically rich) American Jew better than a poor Mizrahi local?

    No, the difference – as in most countries – if you speak Hebrew or not (or Arabic as you were supposedly now in Yaffo).

    It wasn’t just security-related, though, even in public transportation and similar settings I was notably treated better than Ethiopians and some Mizrahis.

    How can a person be treated better in public transport (in the train or the bus?). You get on train and that is that.

    Come on, this Max Blumenthal reading material has led to a strange imaginary story.

    As it happens, Russian-origin Jews have had some racist discrimination against them in Israel. There’s even a slur arsim

    Arsim refers to the young hooligan guys (who are playing loud music on the beach). The translation to English is like ‘punks’.

    This is an important you will use a lot, if you ever actually come to Israel.

    Max Blumenthal detailed this in his magisterial book. There is an interesting chapter on Russian Jews in Israel and the subtle forms of discrimination they have. Though you are too in love with Israel to absorb that info.

    I’m in love with Israel the same way as with any country that I know personally.

    I can spot forgeries and know what is accurate, what is maybe an unfair representation but from someone who is acquainted with subject, and what is invented.

    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv. You have set yourself upon thinking that it is a great city, and your blind love of Israel is obvious. You’re free to believe or not, but if you honestly think I would take great care to impress you, I think you’re delusional about your relative importance to me, no offence.

    I don’t know or care why you invented the story.

    I just pointed out that it was invention.

    I can see right away that AaronB has actually been there when I read his post above, and that you had not.

    That’s just a function of knowing a country yourself.

    Same as if you try to describe the street in my home city (I’ll know soon if you had been there or not).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William

    I’m in love with Israel the same way as with any country that I know personally.
     
    No you clearly have what in America is called a "passionate attachment" to Israel. That is a good thing. It means you love Jews. You should be proud of your bizarre, totally inexplicable, passionate attachment for the 2nd word, decadent cesspool of rootless cowards than is the contemporary State of Israel. Own it.

    Now we just need to cure you of your love for beaners and your hatred of white Americans.

    ...

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans? Is Dmitry's love for them normal? I know that Europeans all worship Amerindians (which is fine, Amerindians are cool).
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  84. Dmitry says:
    @Anonymous
    Odd response from you, you are obviously getting emotional. Polish commentator is a top 10 commentator and should have the credibility to not be accused of fabrication without better evidence. You as another top 10 commentator should maintain your standard of quality in comments.

    No – I just saw in a few lines that he had invented the whole story.

    He knows it and I know it. Not such a big deal either way (I guess he is a young guy).

    Read More
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  85. @Erik Sieven
    If the ever do a documentary about unz.com in the MSM I could imagine this comment will be chosen an cited out of the tens of thousands of comments already posted.

    And in Unz2, it will be presented as an example of a Jewish hate hoax.

    Everything’s perfect.

    Read More
    • LOL: reiner Tor
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  86. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    But the hatred and conquest element – bad.
     
    Why is it bad in your world view?

    But if you’re materialistic, you can’t think in terms of eternity.
     
    A thousand year Reich, with all its eschatological connotations, does sound like striving for eternity to me.

    But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go.
     
    That love has historically been mostly directed only at the religious ingroup whereas different standards applied for dealings with heathen, heretics, unbelievers etc. Islam is pretty much like this even today.
    Many Nazis would probably have said that Nazism was fundamentally about love of the German people.

    I don’t support hatred and conquest because I believe in the underlying spiritual unity of mankind – really of all phenomena including animals. I think Ahimsa is basically correct as a principle. We are all One. All great spiritual teachers without exception have had this insight.

    However, I distinguish between the corporeal realm and the spiritual realm. Humans function best as part of groups. Without group love, humans become selfish individualists. They do not become loving universalists. So while keeping an eye on the ultimate spiritual ideal of Oneness, we must organise into groups of nations. There will be wars and conflict. But this world will never be prefect.

    A thousand year Reich is nothing. Every religion seeks eternity and infinity. And one defeat and the Germans are worthless? Hitler’s racial loyalty was weak. Because it was based on materialism.

    You are right historically love was directed at the in group. This is better than self love. In this fallen world, group love is necessary. But this is a step on the path to universal love. Of course, it often will fall into inter group hatred.

    Islam is s universal religion. And it has high ethical standards towards non Muslims at its best. However, it does show preference to Muslims while keeping the path open for everyone to become Muslim. Of course historically Islam was frequently corrupted and acted appallingly. While not ideal, and Buddhism does a better job, its on a high level.

    The point is there is no perfect solution in this sublunary world – we must choose the best option. Selfish individualism is the worst and least loving.

    Nazism was about loving Germans yes – but in the corrupted form of group love where others are hated. Plus, it had no options for others to join the master race, unlike Islam, and had zero ethical standards for treating out group members. Much lower than Islam.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Islam is s universal religion.
     
    Yes, and that's a huge part of the problem with it.

    Plus, it had no options for others to join the master race, unlike Islam, and had zero ethical standards for treating out group members. Much lower than Islam.
     
    Probably true, but Islam is still pretty bad.
    Anyway, thanks for your reply.
    , @Bliss

    I don’t support hatred and conquest because I believe in the underlying spiritual unity of mankind – really of all phenomena including animals. I think Ahimsa is basically correct as a principle. We are all One. All great spiritual teachers without exception have had this insight.
     
    Agreed.

    Nazism was about loving Germans yes – but in the corrupted form of group love where others are hated. Plus, it had no options for others to join the master race, unlike Islam, and had zero ethical standards for treating out group members. Much lower than Islam.
     
    True dat. Nazism is much lower than Islam.

    But Islam still has hate towards those who don’t want to be part of their group. And there are many good reasons for not wanting to join Islam, or for wanting to leave it if you were born into it.

    In true spirituality there is no outgroup.
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  87. @AaronB
    I don't support hatred and conquest because I believe in the underlying spiritual unity of mankind - really of all phenomena including animals. I think Ahimsa is basically correct as a principle. We are all One. All great spiritual teachers without exception have had this insight.

    However, I distinguish between the corporeal realm and the spiritual realm. Humans function best as part of groups. Without group love, humans become selfish individualists. They do not become loving universalists. So while keeping an eye on the ultimate spiritual ideal of Oneness, we must organise into groups of nations. There will be wars and conflict. But this world will never be prefect.

    A thousand year Reich is nothing. Every religion seeks eternity and infinity. And one defeat and the Germans are worthless? Hitler's racial loyalty was weak. Because it was based on materialism.

    You are right historically love was directed at the in group. This is better than self love. In this fallen world, group love is necessary. But this is a step on the path to universal love. Of course, it often will fall into inter group hatred.

    Islam is s universal religion. And it has high ethical standards towards non Muslims at its best. However, it does show preference to Muslims while keeping the path open for everyone to become Muslim. Of course historically Islam was frequently corrupted and acted appallingly. While not ideal, and Buddhism does a better job, its on a high level.

    The point is there is no perfect solution in this sublunary world - we must choose the best option. Selfish individualism is the worst and least loving.

    Nazism was about loving Germans yes - but in the corrupted form of group love where others are hated. Plus, it had no options for others to join the master race, unlike Islam, and had zero ethical standards for treating out group members. Much lower than Islam.

    Islam is s universal religion.

    Yes, and that’s a huge part of the problem with it.

    Plus, it had no options for others to join the master race, unlike Islam, and had zero ethical standards for treating out group members. Much lower than Islam.

    Probably true, but Islam is still pretty bad.
    Anyway, thanks for your reply.

    Read More
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  88. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB
    You are right about the safety. I never felt the least bit unsafe there, although I was cheated a few times, which I don't think would happen in Japan. It doesn't quite have the social capital of Japan, and it has both more and less social capital than white Europe.

    For instance, I was always safe in Israel, but I was attacked by a group of white Poles leaving a bar in Krakow. They thought I was English and wanted to beat up English people. Coming from New York where all whites are upper class, I remember thinking how odd it was that nice white people were violently attacking me! But Poles in general were more refined and polite than Israelis.

    And while Israelis in Israel can be quite nice and polite and incredibly helpful and the reputation of rude Israelis is overblown, you are always in danger of experiencing instances of shocking and extraordinary rudeness which is hardly true in Europe or anywhere else I've been. And Israelis overseas can be monsters.

    but it the country/language is one my main hobbies.
     
    I think it is much more than that for you :) Its one of your loves.

    And while Israelis in Israel can be quite nice and polite and incredibly helpful and the reputation of rude Israelis is overblown, you are always in danger of experiencing instances of shocking and extraordinary rudeness which is hardly true in Europe or anywhere else I’ve been. And Israelis overseas can be monsters.

    There’s no Western customer service, people in the shops working is grumpy. People who work in shops think it is below their level, and act like they do a favour for the customers. And the Russian-speaking women, and the Mizrahi guys, usually seem the most grumpy.

    When I wanted a refund in the train station, and I fill in the form (I put my signature in the wrong place), and the guy is acting like ‘you fucking idiot’.

    But the social capital is very high – in the case of seeing strangers helping old people with shopping bags, or that they chase after you to tell you your bag is open. If you ask for directions, they can try to take you to the place. And of course, it is very safe outside of a few illegal immigrant area (kids could walk through the city park in the middle of the night, I would not worry).

    This is representative of my experiences:

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    That's true, Israelis will be incredibly helpful to you on a personal level, while at the same time being brusque and rude on a general level, with frequent incidents of extraordinarily anti social behavior.

    It's a weird high octane combination. But you're right that if you need any kind of help, they'll go out of their way for you. But then they'll stun you the next day with some insane anti social act.

    I prefer Japanese style politeness, courtoisie, delicacy, refinement, and the courtly manners of Old Europe, which at its best is quite compatible with personal warmth, but I also appreciate the Israel style with its weird quirks.
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  89. @Dmitry

    I was there in 2015, and from what I understand you were there much more recently, so either they did a much-needed renovation in the meantime or your standards are lower than mine.

     

    It's a made-up story, I know from a lot of different reasons.

    I don't know/care why (I guess because you read the Blumenthal book, and some Polish travel reviews?) - but I can see it's fake very easily, because all the opposites.

    I know you make up the trip and so do you. So what's the use of pretending.

    We lived in the Yafo neighbourhood, which is supposedly a “up-and-coming” hipster neighbourhood(it was also ground zero for expulsion of Palestininans in 1948, though you won’t hear many talk loudly about that).

     

    A majority of shops, restaurants, people in the street, and people treating you in Yafo are openly Arabs.

    Large groups of Arab men sitting outside smoking, large groups of women in Muslim dress and Arabs smoking shisha outside, with a few Jewish hipster discos and bars (and luxury accomodation) mixed around the place.

    The atmosphere in the evening can be a little intimidating if you don't like large groups of Arab guys shouting in corners.

    If you were actually in Yafo, you would that experience (and certainly not have been 'treated better as a European', etc, except that they might try to sell you stuff).

    I was waved through several times. Sorry if you got stopped. The places where security was tightest was Northern Tel Aviv, which is apparently the richest parts. I went into several supermarkets with security and was not taken aside, but some locals were.

     

    They either stop everyone, or wave through everyone. You know your story makes no sense - because you were not there, and invented the story (with some travel review as inspiration).

    I have a vast of experience of Israel. It's the same story - if it's a crowded time they stop everyone, especially foreigners (non-Hebrew speakers). When it's empty, they let through.

    In Northern Tel Aviv, no special security. The security is the same because it's by legal regulation.

    There are lots of American Jews in Tel Aviv, and it would be entirely possible some of them stereotyped me as such when interacting formally in English. Would they treat a (stereotypically rich) American Jew better than a poor Mizrahi local?
     
    No, the difference - as in most countries - if you speak Hebrew or not (or Arabic as you were supposedly now in Yaffo).

    It wasn’t just security-related, though, even in public transportation and similar settings I was notably treated better than Ethiopians and some Mizrahis.

     

    How can a person be treated better in public transport (in the train or the bus?). You get on train and that is that.

    Come on, this Max Blumenthal reading material has led to a strange imaginary story.

    As it happens, Russian-origin Jews have had some racist discrimination against them in Israel. There’s even a slur arsim

     

    Arsim refers to the young hooligan guys (who are playing loud music on the beach). The translation to English is like 'punks'.

    This is an important you will use a lot, if you ever actually come to Israel.

    Max Blumenthal detailed this in his magisterial book. There is an interesting chapter on Russian Jews in Israel and the subtle forms of discrimination they have. Though you are too in love with Israel to absorb that info.

     

    I'm in love with Israel the same way as with any country that I know personally.

    I can spot forgeries and know what is accurate, what is maybe an unfair representation but from someone who is acquainted with subject, and what is invented.

    I honestly do not know why you are so defensive about Tel Aviv. You have set yourself upon thinking that it is a great city, and your blind love of Israel is obvious. You’re free to believe or not, but if you honestly think I would take great care to impress you, I think you’re delusional about your relative importance to me, no offence.

     

    I don't know or care why you invented the story.

    I just pointed out that it was invention.

    I can see right away that AaronB has actually been there when I read his post above, and that you had not.

    That's just a function of knowing a country yourself.

    Same as if you try to describe the street in my home city (I'll know soon if you had been there or not).

    I’m in love with Israel the same way as with any country that I know personally.

    No you clearly have what in America is called a “passionate attachment” to Israel. That is a good thing. It means you love Jews. You should be proud of your bizarre, totally inexplicable, passionate attachment for the 2nd word, decadent cesspool of rootless cowards than is the contemporary State of Israel. Own it.

    Now we just need to cure you of your love for beaners and your hatred of white Americans.

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans? Is Dmitry’s love for them normal? I know that Europeans all worship Amerindians (which is fine, Amerindians are cool).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans? Is Dmitry’s love for them normal? I know that Europeans all worship Amerindians (which is fine, Amerindians are cool).

     

    Of course, there is love for Mexico - even knowledge of cactus and sombreros.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJAM9Pb7vbQ


    -

    Sometimes love in a bad way

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654824/Two-teenagers-killed-fall-sixth-floor-balcony-riverside-apartment-block-south-London.html

    , @German_reader

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans?
     
    We feel great sympathy for them in Germany, one of our biggest regrets regarding WW1 is that there wasn't a Mexican-German alliance and we couldn't help Mexicans reverse the injustice of the Mexican-American war. Left-wingers admire the heroic struggle of the Mexican people against US imperialism, and even many neo-Nazis regard Mexicans as honorary Aryans.
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  90. songbird says:
    @AP

    There’s no such thing as too few African invaders. Trust me – they are the tip of the spear. I saw them set up their toehold in Dublin,
     
    I didn't notice a toehold in Ukraine nor in Russia. They were basically none there before and none more recently either. 20,000 Africans in Ukraine, with about 40 million people, is basically zero.

    Here is Kiev in November 2017:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3993Ik_9FYI

    Do you see a toehold of any kind? I don't think the weird dancer at 9:50 or so counts.

    By “toehold” what I mean is not so much a military strength, so much as an information network. How many of those seemingly few blacks are in communication with their families in Africa? I bet pretty near all of them, and I guarantee you the ones in the Ukraine are the envy of the ones in Africa. The women alone would make it a paradise compared to Nigeria.

    When you’ve seen your first hair straightening or weave salon – the first businesses catering specifically to blacks, then you will begin to appreciate their numbers.

    My point is not that the Ukraine has turned, merely that it is not safe, unless very proactive. It has happened too many times to be complacent about it. Before Western Europe, it was US metropolitan areas during the Great Migration of blacks from the South. Detroit used to be called the Paris of the West.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    There were 25,000 Blacks Germany after WWI. During Nazi regime couple dozens were sent to camps for antisocial behavior. Blacks were not target for being blacks except for sex with Aryans, I think. I think only one died in KL. I had a discussion with German_reader about it but not do not remember all details I dug up. This number of blacks were not a problem and probably not noticeable because the regime was strict and stern. You did not fuck with Nazis. With lax regime and lax immigration laws to keep the numbers of blacks low the numbers will grow. Germany now has about 800,000 blacks. This will happen to Eastern Europe once their economic level and welfare befits become more enticing.

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration. What is needed is a creative obstructionism by 'enlightened' administration to implement unspoken policies to keep their numbers as low as possible. Obviously the best would be to have an official and enforceable no immigration, period. But it will never happen. They will have exceptions. Like for Jews in Ukraine. and then for somber else. It is also possible to have extremely strict naturalization laws and strict reunification laws. Stricter than Swiss. SJWs wold complain but they have no legal case.
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  91. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective
    I have often commented upon the fact that AK seems to have a curious obsession with gay marriage, and transsexuals, as The Ultimate Arbiter of Truth when it comes to how based a country supposedly is. I always counter with this map:

    https://i.imgur.com/DsSXRmi.png

    As a Russian, it is easy to see why you would boost gay marriage as The Defining Issue. But if you care about the historical continuity of your people, it seems like the Czechs do better than most of us, and they seem to be pretty relaxed about it. You may hate gays for whatever reason, but I'd be careful in obsessing over the issue the way AK seems to do as some kind of great canary in the coalmine.

    I largely agree with the 'Frozen in time' hyp0thesis. I do not buy into the theory of some, including far too many insular Polish nationalists, that EE will escape unharmed from the damage of the West.

    One area where I disagree is why the right fails. To my mind, a lot of the right are basically just middle-class conformists. There are two reasons why the left won, in my view:

    A) the left cares about politics to a much greater extent in a proactive way whereas the right often just reacts to what the left does, i.e. a reactive stance. This means that even when the right is weak, the left keeps pushing on. The right often has a static "leave me alone" mentality which is going to lead into passivity and comfort whenever there isn't a strong left to react against. This creates a strong natural barrier to continuous growth.

    B) The left is not afraid at challenging social norms and living with the consequences. Whereas much of even the supposedly "radical" right is absolutely obsessed with normies. But this is illogical. In the 1940s, huge majorities of US whites were against miscegenation. If a leftist followed the advice of today's "radical" right, they would be trying to appeal to normies all the time. But the left went on the furthest-far end and pushed relentlessly. The right always says "well that will cause backlash/blowback" and it does, but by the time it does, the position the left has achieved has been advanced already, so their losses will still put them ahead from where they started. Next time, they can go further.

    Much of the right is obsessed with acceptability, respectability and it is highly conformist. This is natural, in a sense, since many on the right would score high on authoritarianism. There is often a great deal of stress in rightist circles on dressing "right" which often just means "be petty bourgeois" in practice. The optics cuck debate post-Charlottesville is a good example. The "white trashionalists" slur is another. Even if TWP and similar groups had problems, they nevertheless had a revolutionary perspective. If you thought they had issues, then the solution would be to offer an alternative, but one which is still radical. Instead, what many people did was just promote Trumpism like Ricky Vaughn and similar dolts. This quest for respectability is also something I sense in AK's writing, the sense that being assocated with the right is "embarrassing". Fine, but then you'd live your whole life on the left's premises.

    Change ultimately requires some form of sacrifice, and far too many on the right are frankly too cowardly and too conformist to do that. At this point, the charge you get hurled back to you is some moronic shitpost about "READ SIEGE" but that is a nonsense argument. The choice we have before us is not between the current approach, which is reactionary, tame, conformist and some LARPing Waco-style 'insurgency' which will lead nowhere. This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group. This past May 1st, they had not one, but two demonstrations which is not a small feat for a small country like Sweden when you can muster hundreds of peoples at two different locations at the same time. Nordfront, their online publication is huge.

    I am not worried about logistics or even the timeline. There's still plenty of time for even Sweden or a Germany. I am more worried about the inability of many on the right to stop obsessing over what is "embarrassing". If you're more concerned about your social status, you'll never achieve anything. I think the social status mongering is really a reflection of people's delusions that "reform from within" can happen, but in my view, it can't. Power does not cede gracefully, it has to be ripped from their hands and they will see us coming from a mile away. This is also why the "we will take over the GOP" nonsense was always doomed for failure, something Ricky Vaugn and the other morons pushed. It was ironic, to me, that despite Vaugh shilling so much for the GOP, when he got doxxed, no single mainstream GOP personality came out to support him. I doubt many even had heard of him. The only people who would have stood up for him, were the ones he had demonised so they had no incentive. Vaughn was upper-middle class but had no class loyalty and often spoken negatively about lower-class whites. I was disappointed, but not exactly surprised, when I saw that AK praised him, given that AK also reads NRx blogs, which in turn is filled with these middle-class conformists.

    I made a long comment before about why I think that inter-class loyalty goes a long way to explain Germanic success. I noted that in Sweden, even upper-middle class kids like Chris Dulny would openly support NMR, whereas in the US his equivalents (like Vaughn) would demonise such groups and obsess over mainstream acceptance. That's why Sweden has a thriving scene and the US does not.

    A lot of commentary, especially from the neoreactionaries, are just privileged whining by socially comfortable people. Even their phrases ("the Cathedral") gives it away. I would not take much stock in what they have to say, for they have no organisation on the ground. No skin in the game, as Taleb would rightly and acidly point out. That is also a lesson why the AR fell apart. An online movement, especially one so obsessed with appearances, will lead to nowhere.

    This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group.

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury. They right a way fall into the trap of being those Whites who enslaved Africans and exterminated Indians who also are Americans for racist reasons. Referring to themselves as Europeans will not catch a traction in America which always saw itself as an anti-European or at least superior to Europe civilization. I guess also for Russians it might be harder to find unambiguous and not offensive self-identifcation because all those Russia’s citizens from Muslim republics can’t be easily dismissed. Sailer’s ‘invade the world invite the world’ applies to Russia even more than to America. Russians must dance around the whiteness and fall back to Christian Orthodoxy which certainly does not suit everybody. One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms. On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pericles

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites.

     

    Still plenty of demonization, I'm afraid. So, wearing a blue-and-yellow T-shirt (as per Swedish flag) would label you as a racist rube a few years ago. It might now too. Likewise, an older organization calling itself "Sverige åt svenskarna" (Sweden for the Swedes) was of course labeled as racist. And the Sweden Democrats, equally naturally.

    In summary: If you stand up to the globalists, you're racist.
    , @Polish Perspective

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury
     
    They do refer to themselves primarily as Swedish. Sometimes the phrase 'Nordic race' is used. However, they are remarkably sanguine about integrating other European ethnicities with the exception of some Balkan types.

    Simon Lindberg, who is the leader of NMR, also openly talks about the white race, though as an ancillary concept and not a primary one to their world view.

    I think your comment gets at a fundamental divide, namely that the US is a mishmash of various white ethnicities and Europe, for the most part, is not. Though this is changing in some Western European countries. 20% of German new-borns are of mixed European parentage. This caused some furore a few years ago as "40% of German newborns have migrant background" and the right-wing was in up arms. Few actually bothered to check the actual data. When you did, you noticed that half of those 40% were inter-Europeans offspring. German_reader is a mix of British and German if I am not mistaken. So this is already increasingly a reality in Europe and groups like NMR are cognisant of that. As more and more sub-Saharan and MENA peoples move into Europe, I suspect we will see greater a strengthening of a Pan-European identity slowly emerge, though for reasons which the EU will not be pleased about.


    One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms.
     
    This is very true. Catholicism is still a very dominant aspect of what it means to be Polish, much to my chagrin.

    On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.
     
    The Polish left are actually correct when they point out that Poland has historically been quite multicultural and that today's Poland is a historical anomaly which was created largely because of actions of Nazi Germany during WWII and then by Stalin as he wanted neat blocs of ethnically-defined countries, and as such encouraged either ethnic cleansing of the remaining Germans or population movements (many Poles from what is today's Western Ukraine and even parts of Belarus were moved to today's Poland).

    My thinking on this has changed over the last year. I used to think our history doomed the right-wing's position in the debate over the long term but now I am not so sure if history matters that much. Some of the Scandinavian countries have been extremely homogeneous for most of their history, yet have embraced mass migration by the 3rd world with gusto, the aforementioned Sweden is a prime example but even Norway is very liberal. By contrast, China has a history of population movements of outsiders yet their current government is amazing on this aspect. We don't tend to appreciate the diversity of related peoples they had to contend with, just as many non-Europeans do not keep track of all European ethnicities, aside from the big ones.

    I don't think Ukrainians or Belorussians becoming Polish will present big difficulties as these are brotherly peoples. The bigger problem is if we are going to get increasing numbers of non-white citizens. Right now the problem is small. We naturalised just around 3000 people last year and the vast majority of them were other East Europeans. It takes around between 7 to 10 years to get Polish citizenship if you do not have any ancestry (which quite a few Ukrainians and Belorussians do), depending upon who your spouse is.

    So we have maybe 10-15 years before we will see large(r) numbers of non-whites get Polish citizenship. There are certainly worse positions to be in, but at the same time, we are more bluepilled on race than many other nations in Europe. It's a race against 25 years of leftist-neoliberal hegemony which has not really been broken by PiS but at best mildly challenged. I for one think that the developments in the West will be key for us. I agree with those who say that the West is more stable than many think and if it just keeps going, Poland will likely drift in this direction sooner or later with increasing speed rather than away from it, as will most of Eastern Europe in general. We're interconnected, whether we like it or not.

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  92. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    Overall a lot safer and less crazy than walking around Californian cities (which I was doing last summer)
     
    Why? I thought your precious brown, cuddly Latrinos were all paragons of virtue?

    For example, when I was in San Francisco last summer, I was a bit more shocked by some African American groups running around fighting in the street.

    My hotel was next to Union Square. On one side was really nicer, and elitest. But then walking in the other direction for about 2 minutes (I can’t remember which direction exactly), and it was a really shady area with a lot of groups of blacks guys running in the street and pushing each other.

    But you know the general atmosphere is a little chaotic – walking in San Francisco in the evening, we even were wondering how there were quite a few random mentally ill (white) people walking next to you and shouting things at the moon.

    Read More
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  93. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    I’m in love with Israel the same way as with any country that I know personally.
     
    No you clearly have what in America is called a "passionate attachment" to Israel. That is a good thing. It means you love Jews. You should be proud of your bizarre, totally inexplicable, passionate attachment for the 2nd word, decadent cesspool of rootless cowards than is the contemporary State of Israel. Own it.

    Now we just need to cure you of your love for beaners and your hatred of white Americans.

    ...

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans? Is Dmitry's love for them normal? I know that Europeans all worship Amerindians (which is fine, Amerindians are cool).

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans? Is Dmitry’s love for them normal? I know that Europeans all worship Amerindians (which is fine, Amerindians are cool).

    Of course, there is love for Mexico – even knowledge of cactus and sombreros.

    -

    Sometimes love in a bad way

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654824/Two-teenagers-killed-fall-sixth-floor-balcony-riverside-apartment-block-south-London.html

    Read More
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  94. @Greasy William

    I’m in love with Israel the same way as with any country that I know personally.
     
    No you clearly have what in America is called a "passionate attachment" to Israel. That is a good thing. It means you love Jews. You should be proud of your bizarre, totally inexplicable, passionate attachment for the 2nd word, decadent cesspool of rootless cowards than is the contemporary State of Israel. Own it.

    Now we just need to cure you of your love for beaners and your hatred of white Americans.

    ...

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans? Is Dmitry's love for them normal? I know that Europeans all worship Amerindians (which is fine, Amerindians are cool).

    Speaking of which, what do Russians and Europeans think of Mexicans?

    We feel great sympathy for them in Germany, one of our biggest regrets regarding WW1 is that there wasn’t a Mexican-German alliance and we couldn’t help Mexicans reverse the injustice of the Mexican-American war. Left-wingers admire the heroic struggle of the Mexican people against US imperialism, and even many neo-Nazis regard Mexicans as honorary Aryans.

    Read More
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  95. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    , I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better.
     
    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    The trains and their stations are overall really nice.

    The problem is the bus station - which is the opposite (like you have entered Africa). I don't like the train station next to that bus station, but even it is perfectly modern as in Europe.


    The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.
     
    It depends on the streets - the expensive ones would impress. The overall building quality is very low in most of the city. Although skyscrapers are building everywhere, like in a 'boom town'.

    Atmosphere though in the expensive parts of the city is something else.


    Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly).

     

    The buses are the same in the two cities. (Egged is a bus company).

    The difference is that Jerusalem has built the light rail which you would have used, if you had visited.


    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I’m a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped.
     
    They stop everyone (unless it's out of peak hours, in which case they stop no-one). I'm a light Northern European appeared man - makes no difference.

    You invented a kind of dumb story.


    For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way.

     

    Lol you got "treated better than" the people who are over 60% of the Israeli population and would be almost all the ones treating you (Mizrahi Jews are the ones doing most security jobs)?

    Why make up this fake story about a holiday you haven't done?

    It's pretty weird and obviously cobbled together from some travel reviews you read, but with lots of imagination added.

    You and Okechukwu need to get a room with his hired "Russian security "

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/sweden-no/#comment-2344966

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.

    His impression of Tel Aviv railway station made you think he is lying?

    Train Travel in Israel Is Anything but Romantic

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/.premium-train-travel-in-israel-is-anything-but-romantic-1.5435738

    But Israeli trains are functional, not fun. The views are unimpressive – dusty, dirty and crowded. At no time did more than a minute or two elapse without houses intruding on the view. Seen from the train, Israel looks like one long unbroken stretch of buildings – and the construction is ongoing. Moreover, while the trains were clean, the windows were often dirty.

    The stations, in contrast, were nightmares, almost without exception. Access to the platforms was inconvenient, often consisting of a narrow flight of stairs, and the food sold there is stale, tasteless and expensive. Having eaten at three different stations, my conclusion was that dying of hunger is preferable.

    The exception was Haifa, whose main station was built by the British 80 years ago. The location is superb, in the heart of the lower city

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I know his comment is invented from many different reasons, and he knows it too.

    But this was the first thing I saw that shows it.

    As for the train stations at the airport is nice and modern, the ones in Tel Aviv so too. It's a contrast to the other things in the country (especially the bus stations).

    The trains themselves are really modern, nice, and better than in a lot of Europe.

    These stations are safe, modern, even clean toilets (it's a miracle compared to the bus station). (There's one train station in Tel Aviv I do not like, but that is not because of the station itself - which is modern - but because of the neighbourhood around). The neighbourhood is a complete horror film.

    I don't know if I have to hold your hand and take you around one in real life.

    -

    Here is how the train runs from the airport. (It's all modern and nothing at all dilapidated - the problem is if you get there when the train is close, and you have to walk outside the airport and get one of the chaotic free bus from the airport).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdEs8VASHGQ

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  96. @Niccolo Salo
    There is a certain subset of hard rightists in ex-communist countries who have been socialized on 4chan and internet memes and have internalized American political, cultural and social narratives to the point that they end up applying it to their own countries when it really can't be done.

    This manifests itself in alarmism and is really a 'hey, we're just like you' special plea. Almost all of these types have never spent a significant amount of time in the Anglosphere and really don't have anything tangible to compare their situation with.

    It's as sad as relying on polling to learn about countries.

    These types are generally nerds with low social intelligence and usually end up actually embracing the more hilarious types of #HBD rejects.

    And for those who are nerds I will quantify it for you: Arpad says that Pride in Zagreb is 'beyond huge'. Metro Zagreb has 1 million residents and some 5,000 people turn out for Pride every year, over which half come from outside the country as either NGO types or their homosexual partners. Toronto and its suburbs has 6 million residents and around 1.5 million turn out for Pride there year after year after year after year.

    It's frustrating how naive people can be when all it takes is going to a country and spending time there in various locales to learn about what life is like there and then applying some critical thinking and engaging in comparisons with other places one has lived in/been to.

    Is alarmism such a bad thing? If you don’t destroy the beginnings of cancer, how do you prevent it from metasizing? It seems concerning if there’s a parade of five thousand people and no “lax security” to allow hooligans to do what is necessary. If the immune system has been disabled, then you can only expect the sickness to spread as it becomes obvious that virtue-signaling for the poz is profitable and status-earning.

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  97. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    The train station at the airport is quite nice and modern. I doubted your story was true from this point.
     
    His impression of Tel Aviv railway station made you think he is lying?

    Train Travel in Israel Is Anything but Romantic
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/.premium-train-travel-in-israel-is-anything-but-romantic-1.5435738

    But Israeli trains are functional, not fun. The views are unimpressive – dusty, dirty and crowded. At no time did more than a minute or two elapse without houses intruding on the view. Seen from the train, Israel looks like one long unbroken stretch of buildings – and the construction is ongoing. Moreover, while the trains were clean, the windows were often dirty.

    The stations, in contrast, were nightmares, almost without exception. Access to the platforms was inconvenient, often consisting of a narrow flight of stairs, and the food sold there is stale, tasteless and expensive. Having eaten at three different stations, my conclusion was that dying of hunger is preferable.

    The exception was Haifa, whose main station was built by the British 80 years ago. The location is superb, in the heart of the lower city

     

    I know his comment is invented from many different reasons, and he knows it too.

    But this was the first thing I saw that shows it.

    As for the train stations at the airport is nice and modern, the ones in Tel Aviv so too. It’s a contrast to the other things in the country (especially the bus stations).

    The trains themselves are really modern, nice, and better than in a lot of Europe.

    These stations are safe, modern, even clean toilets (it’s a miracle compared to the bus station). (There’s one train station in Tel Aviv I do not like, but that is not because of the station itself – which is modern – but because of the neighbourhood around). The neighbourhood is a complete horror film.

    I don’t know if I have to hold your hand and take you around one in real life.

    -

    Here is how the train runs from the airport. (It’s all modern and nothing at all dilapidated – the problem is if you get there when the train is close, and you have to walk outside the airport and get one of the chaotic free bus from the airport).

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    I know his comment is invented from many different reasons, and he knows it too.
     
    You haven't made a good case for it.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Are clean toilets supposed to be an astounding thing in a first world country?
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  98. utu says:
    @songbird
    By "toehold" what I mean is not so much a military strength, so much as an information network. How many of those seemingly few blacks are in communication with their families in Africa? I bet pretty near all of them, and I guarantee you the ones in the Ukraine are the envy of the ones in Africa. The women alone would make it a paradise compared to Nigeria.

    When you've seen your first hair straightening or weave salon - the first businesses catering specifically to blacks, then you will begin to appreciate their numbers.

    My point is not that the Ukraine has turned, merely that it is not safe, unless very proactive. It has happened too many times to be complacent about it. Before Western Europe, it was US metropolitan areas during the Great Migration of blacks from the South. Detroit used to be called the Paris of the West.

    There were 25,000 Blacks Germany after WWI. During Nazi regime couple dozens were sent to camps for antisocial behavior. Blacks were not target for being blacks except for sex with Aryans, I think. I think only one died in KL. I had a discussion with German_reader about it but not do not remember all details I dug up. This number of blacks were not a problem and probably not noticeable because the regime was strict and stern. You did not fuck with Nazis. With lax regime and lax immigration laws to keep the numbers of blacks low the numbers will grow. Germany now has about 800,000 blacks. This will happen to Eastern Europe once their economic level and welfare befits become more enticing.

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration. What is needed is a creative obstructionism by ‘enlightened’ administration to implement unspoken policies to keep their numbers as low as possible. Obviously the best would be to have an official and enforceable no immigration, period. But it will never happen. They will have exceptions. Like for Jews in Ukraine. and then for somber else. It is also possible to have extremely strict naturalization laws and strict reunification laws. Stricter than Swiss. SJWs wold complain but they have no legal case.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration
     
    It would be enough to end the asylum system and deport illegal immigrants. It's not like most Africans coming to Germany are skilled immigrants arriving in legal ways.
    , @songbird
    Germany was lucky to lose its colonies in WWI. Contrast to Britain, colonies Germany lost are now part of the Commonwealth, even though they were never really British colonies. The British only controlled a tiny sliver of Cameroon - it is now in the Commonwealth. Rwanda was handed over directly to the Belgians - Commonwealth. Sure, it is not an organization with a lot of power, but any special relationship with African countries is a bad one and can only get worse, the longer it continues.

    I'm not sure bureaucracy is capable of enlightened behavior on immigration, anymore. What is the dividing line? I don't know - woman's suffrage, unionization, or a diversity threshold. Maybe, the Ukraine is safely on the other side of that, but it doesn't sound like it. I mean, Germany had colonies, so there was an excuse.

    If egalitarianism before the law is the political constraint, then I think reciprocity should be promoted among the races. If for instance, there aren't many ethnic Ukrainians living in Africa, there shouldn't be many Africans in the Ukraine.

    Though the approach I would prefer would be built around algorithms and DNA. Absolutely, technically feasible, if many would reject it. I honestly think an EU, where whites could travel freely, within reasonable limits, would appeal to the white Left, if they fully understood the alternatives.
    , @Erik Sieven
    "Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration."
    people should be banned for life to immigrate if they were born in a country which at the time of their birth had a TFR higher than e.g. 3.0. This rule would not explicitly target Subsaharan Africans, but it would work anyway. Also it would be a reasonable reaction to the core problem: one-sided demographic expansion.
    , @Hyperborean
    Why such a complex plan? Why not simply make them self-deport. I heard this in connection with Mitt Romney (probably the only good idea he ever had) and I like the idea.

    Just harass them and make their lives so utterly miserable on every level of life so that they couldn't possibly survive and they will leave in the end.
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  99. 22pp22 says:
    @utu
    What's funny is that even in Hollywood movies Germans manage to look good. Is it because they pick extras among Nordic looking actors who are good looking to us because they are Nordic or is it the appeal of Hugo Boss uniform?

    Very true about how Brits treated and treat their lower classes. This attitude crossed Atlantic to America where in older times loathing was acceptable with respect to poor immigrants but now it is poor withes, white trash and poor Southerners on whom there is an open season and no protective umbrella is extended over them, including a common decency. The left can be vicious. They take no prisoners.

    The Left really do take no prisoners as those who tried to stand up to grooming gangs found out.

    They didn’t attack them on the issue of grooming gangs. They would find some weak point, any weak point, and attack them on that.

    The Left regard their enemies as demon spawn and they will destroy them by any means at their disposal.

    They are relentless, pitiless, self-righteous and they have NO conscience.

    Read More
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  100. utu says:
    @Dmitry
    I know his comment is invented from many different reasons, and he knows it too.

    But this was the first thing I saw that shows it.

    As for the train stations at the airport is nice and modern, the ones in Tel Aviv so too. It's a contrast to the other things in the country (especially the bus stations).

    The trains themselves are really modern, nice, and better than in a lot of Europe.

    These stations are safe, modern, even clean toilets (it's a miracle compared to the bus station). (There's one train station in Tel Aviv I do not like, but that is not because of the station itself - which is modern - but because of the neighbourhood around). The neighbourhood is a complete horror film.

    I don't know if I have to hold your hand and take you around one in real life.

    -

    Here is how the train runs from the airport. (It's all modern and nothing at all dilapidated - the problem is if you get there when the train is close, and you have to walk outside the airport and get one of the chaotic free bus from the airport).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdEs8VASHGQ

    I know his comment is invented from many different reasons, and he knows it too.

    You haven’t made a good case for it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    He's 20 years old now. He claims to have been there in 2015, when he was 17 years old, and in the story in his first post that he was travelling on his own.

    He manages to get every concrete detail of the country wrong, or inverted, about the places he visited. (From the modern train station in the airport onwards).

    Meanwhile, he has miraculously been allowed past security every time and never stopped (literally impossible 100% - I get stopped all the time there), treated better than Mizrahi Jews (i.e. all the local Israelis), yet "wryly" discussed time-keeping with locals (the issue arose due to his being assumed to be German), and has a special kinship with Ethiopian Jews (despite that he is right-wing) who he witnesses being publicly mistreated on public transport, and who condolence with him as a fellow outsider.

    The 17 year old also has somehow visited Hebron and explored security situation of the West Bank, in addition to travelling security free through all the supermarkets and shops (while claiming they are higher security in North Tel Aviv, and having lived in the Arab quarter of the town, yet believed he was being better treated by racist Israelis as a European there - yet almost all the hospitality staff in that area are open Arabs?).

    An imaginary narrative (funnily left-wing oriented) to match the stories in the Max Blumenthal book that we telling me he was reading last week - and in which I replied that he needs to get first-hand experience of the country.

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  101. @utu
    There were 25,000 Blacks Germany after WWI. During Nazi regime couple dozens were sent to camps for antisocial behavior. Blacks were not target for being blacks except for sex with Aryans, I think. I think only one died in KL. I had a discussion with German_reader about it but not do not remember all details I dug up. This number of blacks were not a problem and probably not noticeable because the regime was strict and stern. You did not fuck with Nazis. With lax regime and lax immigration laws to keep the numbers of blacks low the numbers will grow. Germany now has about 800,000 blacks. This will happen to Eastern Europe once their economic level and welfare befits become more enticing.

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration. What is needed is a creative obstructionism by 'enlightened' administration to implement unspoken policies to keep their numbers as low as possible. Obviously the best would be to have an official and enforceable no immigration, period. But it will never happen. They will have exceptions. Like for Jews in Ukraine. and then for somber else. It is also possible to have extremely strict naturalization laws and strict reunification laws. Stricter than Swiss. SJWs wold complain but they have no legal case.

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration

    It would be enough to end the asylum system and deport illegal immigrants. It’s not like most Africans coming to Germany are skilled immigrants arriving in legal ways.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Yes, plus "creative obstructionism by ‘enlightened’ administration to implement unspoken policies" so everybody is on the same page.
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  102. @Dmitry
    I know his comment is invented from many different reasons, and he knows it too.

    But this was the first thing I saw that shows it.

    As for the train stations at the airport is nice and modern, the ones in Tel Aviv so too. It's a contrast to the other things in the country (especially the bus stations).

    The trains themselves are really modern, nice, and better than in a lot of Europe.

    These stations are safe, modern, even clean toilets (it's a miracle compared to the bus station). (There's one train station in Tel Aviv I do not like, but that is not because of the station itself - which is modern - but because of the neighbourhood around). The neighbourhood is a complete horror film.

    I don't know if I have to hold your hand and take you around one in real life.

    -

    Here is how the train runs from the airport. (It's all modern and nothing at all dilapidated - the problem is if you get there when the train is close, and you have to walk outside the airport and get one of the chaotic free bus from the airport).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdEs8VASHGQ

    Are clean toilets supposed to be an astounding thing in a first world country?

    Read More
    • LOL: songbird
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  103. songbird says:

    I would honestly say that they are in America. They shouldn’t be – but they are. Depends where you are, but try finding a public toilet in the city and it can be pretty tough.

    I imagine it is a confluence of factors. Drugs, gays, homeless (who used to be institutionalized). But, in some places, it really is hard to find one. I’m pretty sure, they closed some down compared to like 50 or 60 years ago.

    Probably the complete opposite for Japan, but most of the first world is a confluence of the first and third today. It is kind of bizarre, for the way it is tolerated. I mean try finding a street without human waste in it, or a subway that doesn’t smell like urine – very difficult in some places.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The most disgusting ones ever I see in Spain and Italy.

    In Spain I got some stain on liquid shit on quite new pair of shoes.

    In California, I think the toilets overall were clean (I didn't use train, just airports, shopping malls, etc).

    , @Daniel Chieh
    The US is really wild if you think about it. Where I live, horses graze a little bit outside my back yard. They're technically owned by people in mobile houses and trailers, but I suppose they figured that they have plenty of room to roam if left to run around.

    Where I work, its one of those gleaming SWPL paradises where everything prices out NAMs and for that matter, a good percentage of whites as well. I don't spend a lot of time there - but some people apparently really like it. Having been very impoverished at one point in my life, I don't identify with them. I still remember what it is like to walk home with groceries under the blazing sun, and drop a bag to lose part of a day's paycheck to an accident.

    If I take the rail, or if I choose to drive a bit further into the heart of the city, drugged blacks wander around in the stations. Some of them, clearly mentally deranged, will randomly run up and "playfully" tackle you in rather pathetic little efforts at robbery. No one prosecutes them, its clear that something is wrong with them and its clear that they're not actually that harmful, but at the same time, letting them amuck is probably a bad idea.

    I think random, poorly-kept horses popping up in my backyard are far superior in comparison.

    Funny thing is that its all like three hours from each other.
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  104. Dmitry says:
    @songbird
    I would honestly say that they are in America. They shouldn't be - but they are. Depends where you are, but try finding a public toilet in the city and it can be pretty tough.

    I imagine it is a confluence of factors. Drugs, gays, homeless (who used to be institutionalized). But, in some places, it really is hard to find one. I'm pretty sure, they closed some down compared to like 50 or 60 years ago.

    Probably the complete opposite for Japan, but most of the first world is a confluence of the first and third today. It is kind of bizarre, for the way it is tolerated. I mean try finding a street without human waste in it, or a subway that doesn't smell like urine - very difficult in some places.

    The most disgusting ones ever I see in Spain and Italy.

    In Spain I got some stain on liquid shit on quite new pair of shoes.

    In California, I think the toilets overall were clean (I didn’t use train, just airports, shopping malls, etc).

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    The most disgusting ones ever I see in Spain and Italy.

    Just goes to show that we all have different impressions of places. I have travelled around Spain far more than you, and have found the toilets to be generally quite clean, far more so than in France for example. Indeed, in the part of France where we lived many of the public toilets (including those in the schools attended by my children) were "Turkish" toilets.

    I have to say that the worst toilets by far I ever experienced were in the late- and early post-USSR. I recall one of my colleagues complaining about a particular restroom saying that "it smelled like shit", and another replying "Yes, but what have they done to it?".

    I assume that things there are much better now.
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  105. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration
     
    It would be enough to end the asylum system and deport illegal immigrants. It's not like most Africans coming to Germany are skilled immigrants arriving in legal ways.

    Yes, plus “creative obstructionism by ‘enlightened’ administration to implement unspoken policies” so everybody is on the same page.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    “creative obstructionism by ‘enlightened’ administration to implement unspoken policies”
     
    Which already exists, just not in the way I want it. The current unspoken policy is to keep Germany open for every invader that manages to reach the German border, while pretending the "crisis" is over.
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  106. songbird says:
    @utu
    There were 25,000 Blacks Germany after WWI. During Nazi regime couple dozens were sent to camps for antisocial behavior. Blacks were not target for being blacks except for sex with Aryans, I think. I think only one died in KL. I had a discussion with German_reader about it but not do not remember all details I dug up. This number of blacks were not a problem and probably not noticeable because the regime was strict and stern. You did not fuck with Nazis. With lax regime and lax immigration laws to keep the numbers of blacks low the numbers will grow. Germany now has about 800,000 blacks. This will happen to Eastern Europe once their economic level and welfare befits become more enticing.

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration. What is needed is a creative obstructionism by 'enlightened' administration to implement unspoken policies to keep their numbers as low as possible. Obviously the best would be to have an official and enforceable no immigration, period. But it will never happen. They will have exceptions. Like for Jews in Ukraine. and then for somber else. It is also possible to have extremely strict naturalization laws and strict reunification laws. Stricter than Swiss. SJWs wold complain but they have no legal case.

    Germany was lucky to lose its colonies in WWI. Contrast to Britain, colonies Germany lost are now part of the Commonwealth, even though they were never really British colonies. The British only controlled a tiny sliver of Cameroon – it is now in the Commonwealth. Rwanda was handed over directly to the Belgians – Commonwealth. Sure, it is not an organization with a lot of power, but any special relationship with African countries is a bad one and can only get worse, the longer it continues.

    I’m not sure bureaucracy is capable of enlightened behavior on immigration, anymore. What is the dividing line? I don’t know – woman’s suffrage, unionization, or a diversity threshold. Maybe, the Ukraine is safely on the other side of that, but it doesn’t sound like it. I mean, Germany had colonies, so there was an excuse.

    If egalitarianism before the law is the political constraint, then I think reciprocity should be promoted among the races. If for instance, there aren’t many ethnic Ukrainians living in Africa, there shouldn’t be many Africans in the Ukraine.

    Though the approach I would prefer would be built around algorithms and DNA. Absolutely, technically feasible, if many would reject it. I honestly think an EU, where whites could travel freely, within reasonable limits, would appeal to the white Left, if they fully understood the alternatives.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Germany was lucky to lose its colonies in WWI.
     
    It makes zero difference. As long as Germany keeps its absoluty insane asylum laws which are unparalleled anywhere else in the world, we've got a situation where de facto every Arab or African can come, claim asylum and have a very high chance of never getting deported.
    Whether a country had a colonial histoy or not, is quite irrelevant today imo, just look at Sweden. There just is this pernicious narrative that blacks have some kind of right to immigrate to every white country they want to, and Africans are aggressively demanding this "right".
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  107. @utu
    Yes, plus "creative obstructionism by ‘enlightened’ administration to implement unspoken policies" so everybody is on the same page.

    “creative obstructionism by ‘enlightened’ administration to implement unspoken policies”

    Which already exists, just not in the way I want it. The current unspoken policy is to keep Germany open for every invader that manages to reach the German border, while pretending the “crisis” is over.

    Read More
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  108. @songbird
    I would honestly say that they are in America. They shouldn't be - but they are. Depends where you are, but try finding a public toilet in the city and it can be pretty tough.

    I imagine it is a confluence of factors. Drugs, gays, homeless (who used to be institutionalized). But, in some places, it really is hard to find one. I'm pretty sure, they closed some down compared to like 50 or 60 years ago.

    Probably the complete opposite for Japan, but most of the first world is a confluence of the first and third today. It is kind of bizarre, for the way it is tolerated. I mean try finding a street without human waste in it, or a subway that doesn't smell like urine - very difficult in some places.

    The US is really wild if you think about it. Where I live, horses graze a little bit outside my back yard. They’re technically owned by people in mobile houses and trailers, but I suppose they figured that they have plenty of room to roam if left to run around.

    Where I work, its one of those gleaming SWPL paradises where everything prices out NAMs and for that matter, a good percentage of whites as well. I don’t spend a lot of time there – but some people apparently really like it. Having been very impoverished at one point in my life, I don’t identify with them. I still remember what it is like to walk home with groceries under the blazing sun, and drop a bag to lose part of a day’s paycheck to an accident.

    If I take the rail, or if I choose to drive a bit further into the heart of the city, drugged blacks wander around in the stations. Some of them, clearly mentally deranged, will randomly run up and “playfully” tackle you in rather pathetic little efforts at robbery. No one prosecutes them, its clear that something is wrong with them and its clear that they’re not actually that harmful, but at the same time, letting them amuck is probably a bad idea.

    I think random, poorly-kept horses popping up in my backyard are far superior in comparison.

    Funny thing is that its all like three hours from each other.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH
    Why is a Chinese living in the US anyway? Leave

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gjj1-tJ3y2M/WmbxxxW1c1I/AAAAAAAAGC0/W67kBMq_HLUUXIfDfdn9V05GeSCIaFUFACLcBGAs/s1600/Chinese%2Bexclusion%2Bact.jpg
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Have seen these free roaming horses in Russia, in Portugal (just outside our Airbnb), and literally every single ride we take in Romania. I do think this is considerably rarer in the US, where the people who own horses tend to be rich and house them in stables.
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  109. Pericles says:
    @utu

    This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group.
     
    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury. They right a way fall into the trap of being those Whites who enslaved Africans and exterminated Indians who also are Americans for racist reasons. Referring to themselves as Europeans will not catch a traction in America which always saw itself as an anti-European or at least superior to Europe civilization. I guess also for Russians it might be harder to find unambiguous and not offensive self-identifcation because all those Russia's citizens from Muslim republics can't be easily dismissed. Sailer's 'invade the world invite the world' applies to Russia even more than to America. Russians must dance around the whiteness and fall back to Christian Orthodoxy which certainly does not suit everybody. One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms. On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites.

    Still plenty of demonization, I’m afraid. So, wearing a blue-and-yellow T-shirt (as per Swedish flag) would label you as a racist rube a few years ago. It might now too. Likewise, an older organization calling itself “Sverige åt svenskarna” (Sweden for the Swedes) was of course labeled as racist. And the Sweden Democrats, equally naturally.

    In summary: If you stand up to the globalists, you’re racist.

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  110. @songbird
    Germany was lucky to lose its colonies in WWI. Contrast to Britain, colonies Germany lost are now part of the Commonwealth, even though they were never really British colonies. The British only controlled a tiny sliver of Cameroon - it is now in the Commonwealth. Rwanda was handed over directly to the Belgians - Commonwealth. Sure, it is not an organization with a lot of power, but any special relationship with African countries is a bad one and can only get worse, the longer it continues.

    I'm not sure bureaucracy is capable of enlightened behavior on immigration, anymore. What is the dividing line? I don't know - woman's suffrage, unionization, or a diversity threshold. Maybe, the Ukraine is safely on the other side of that, but it doesn't sound like it. I mean, Germany had colonies, so there was an excuse.

    If egalitarianism before the law is the political constraint, then I think reciprocity should be promoted among the races. If for instance, there aren't many ethnic Ukrainians living in Africa, there shouldn't be many Africans in the Ukraine.

    Though the approach I would prefer would be built around algorithms and DNA. Absolutely, technically feasible, if many would reject it. I honestly think an EU, where whites could travel freely, within reasonable limits, would appeal to the white Left, if they fully understood the alternatives.

    Germany was lucky to lose its colonies in WWI.

    It makes zero difference. As long as Germany keeps its absoluty insane asylum laws which are unparalleled anywhere else in the world, we’ve got a situation where de facto every Arab or African can come, claim asylum and have a very high chance of never getting deported.
    Whether a country had a colonial histoy or not, is quite irrelevant today imo, just look at Sweden. There just is this pernicious narrative that blacks have some kind of right to immigrate to every white country they want to, and Africans are aggressively demanding this “right”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @songbird
    Sweden is the bane of confactuals. No world wars. No colonies to speak of, unless you count New Sweden. I had hoped it is just something particularly wrong with Sweden, but we are starting to see it in other places now.

    It makes zero difference.
     
    You are absolutely right - in the long run. Though, I think the UK and France had an early start. Partly, because they were looking to cultivate a special relationship with the natives. It even enters into the rhetoric a lot today, but perhaps that is just blather. But, things are heating up, the rate is increasing in places that didn't even have the early start, soon they may match or even exceed.

    I know I have used the phrase before, probably tiresomely, but deportation is basically theater of the mind. To begin with, you need border control. Without it, deportation is useless, maybe worse than useless because it convinces some that things are under control or won't go too far. The truth is there is no limit to how bad things will get with an open border. Unless, some of the MENA people decide to turn away blacks.

    A good immigration system would be like an immune system with various components and layers of action working in concert. I think you need good incentives at each layer. Now the way things are working - they are incentivizing the refugees. Own a hotel that is empty outside the season? It will be filled, and the government will pay you to fill it. Instead, I would pay bounties 1000 Euros/head to capture illegal aliens - but that is after the other things have been taken care of - the border, the welfare, employment (few this last would apply to, though). Infiltrating African communications over the internet and spreading disinformation would probably help too.
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  111. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    I know his comment is invented from many different reasons, and he knows it too.
     
    You haven't made a good case for it.

    He’s 20 years old now. He claims to have been there in 2015, when he was 17 years old, and in the story in his first post that he was travelling on his own.

    He manages to get every concrete detail of the country wrong, or inverted, about the places he visited. (From the modern train station in the airport onwards).

    Meanwhile, he has miraculously been allowed past security every time and never stopped (literally impossible 100% – I get stopped all the time there), treated better than Mizrahi Jews (i.e. all the local Israelis), yet “wryly” discussed time-keeping with locals (the issue arose due to his being assumed to be German), and has a special kinship with Ethiopian Jews (despite that he is right-wing) who he witnesses being publicly mistreated on public transport, and who condolence with him as a fellow outsider.

    The 17 year old also has somehow visited Hebron and explored security situation of the West Bank, in addition to travelling security free through all the supermarkets and shops (while claiming they are higher security in North Tel Aviv, and having lived in the Arab quarter of the town, yet believed he was being better treated by racist Israelis as a European there – yet almost all the hospitality staff in that area are open Arabs?).

    An imaginary narrative (funnily left-wing oriented) to match the stories in the Max Blumenthal book that we telling me he was reading last week – and in which I replied that he needs to get first-hand experience of the country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    I suspect he might be not honest about his age. It is possible that it was one little unnecessary lie that he has to keep on or that it was an anti self-doxxing measure of which he said he was concerned of not so long ago. But I have no problems with anything he writes except it is just too good to come from a 20 year old but not impossible. As far as his description of Israel, wherever it comes from, it feels more credible than your usually Pollyannish spin. Anyway I am ready to have more of Polish Perspective's comment coming here.
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  112. @utu
    There were 25,000 Blacks Germany after WWI. During Nazi regime couple dozens were sent to camps for antisocial behavior. Blacks were not target for being blacks except for sex with Aryans, I think. I think only one died in KL. I had a discussion with German_reader about it but not do not remember all details I dug up. This number of blacks were not a problem and probably not noticeable because the regime was strict and stern. You did not fuck with Nazis. With lax regime and lax immigration laws to keep the numbers of blacks low the numbers will grow. Germany now has about 800,000 blacks. This will happen to Eastern Europe once their economic level and welfare befits become more enticing.

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration. What is needed is a creative obstructionism by 'enlightened' administration to implement unspoken policies to keep their numbers as low as possible. Obviously the best would be to have an official and enforceable no immigration, period. But it will never happen. They will have exceptions. Like for Jews in Ukraine. and then for somber else. It is also possible to have extremely strict naturalization laws and strict reunification laws. Stricter than Swiss. SJWs wold complain but they have no legal case.

    “Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration.”
    people should be banned for life to immigrate if they were born in a country which at the time of their birth had a TFR higher than e.g. 3.0. This rule would not explicitly target Subsaharan Africans, but it would work anyway. Also it would be a reasonable reaction to the core problem: one-sided demographic expansion.

    Read More
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  113. Pericles says:
    @AaronB
    High quality people are idealistic. IQ tests and statistics and math and science show this beyond any doubt.

    The Right has trouble attracting high quality human capital because it lacks idealism and offers a fatalistic vision of life strictly bounded by limits. But humans yearn for the infinite.

    Many liberals are not liberals in their "essence" - the biggest mistake you can make us to think of people "essentialistically". Are Europeans natural cucks or the world's greatest warrior people?

    Many liberals are that way because the modern secular world does not offer them any other way to satisfy their idealism and reach after the infinite.

    The Right has no access to the long-term deep indoctrination centres, that’s why it has some trouble attracting students hailing therefrom. It’s certainly less fatalistic than the Left, which is secular, materialistic, nihilistic and so on.

    Liberal idealism springs from intellectual vanity and lack of experience, and some conformism and virtue signaling. I read this interesting science article on buzzfeed; oh I’m actually a PhD in Psychology; of course we together can implement utopia (which will be like a university department but with plentiful funding and everyone has tenure).

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Fair enough, but why did the Right lose access to the long term indoctrination centers? They used to have complete control.

    The right wing power holders seem to have been unable to retain their position of strength. And high IQ people seem to have overwhelmingly found the message of the Left more appealing.

    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.

    How is the Left nihilistic? The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn't enough. What's missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can't seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic - with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?
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  114. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader

    But the hatred and conquest element – bad.
     
    Why is it bad in your world view?

    But if you’re materialistic, you can’t think in terms of eternity.
     
    A thousand year Reich, with all its eschatological connotations, does sound like striving for eternity to me.

    But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go.
     
    That love has historically been mostly directed only at the religious ingroup whereas different standards applied for dealings with heathen, heretics, unbelievers etc. Islam is pretty much like this even today.
    Many Nazis would probably have said that Nazism was fundamentally about love of the German people.

    Nazism was fundamentally about love of the German people.

    Could be.

    The problem was, is, it was also fundamentally about…. disdain (perhaps) for Slavic people.
    Disdain at least……Some would even say hate. More to the East from German borders, more of that sentiment……

    Not much love for Anglos either. More than for Slavs, of course, but still.

    So, selling that to Whites can’t work well. Plenty of those are of Slavic stock.

    Now, some form of National-Socialism is another matter. Augh, did I just say “socialism”? Bad…bad word for the “right”.

    So, there was, is, definitely something with Nazi ideology. From deep about human nature to organization of society. How much of that something was/is “reusable” could be debatable. Could. Most of the time isn’t.

    Related to that “isn’t”, I am hoping you aren’t going to challenge that sentiment re Slavic people. Plenty of such characters on this board already. I just skip over their posts. Nothing personal. As I skip over vegan posts re food etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    My comment wasn't meant as a defense of Nazism.
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  115. @peterAUS

    Nazism was fundamentally about love of the German people.
     
    Could be.

    The problem was, is, it was also fundamentally about.... disdain (perhaps) for Slavic people.
    Disdain at least......Some would even say hate. More to the East from German borders, more of that sentiment......

    Not much love for Anglos either. More than for Slavs, of course, but still.

    So, selling that to Whites can't work well. Plenty of those are of Slavic stock.

    Now, some form of National-Socialism is another matter. Augh, did I just say "socialism"? Bad...bad word for the "right".

    So, there was, is, definitely something with Nazi ideology. From deep about human nature to organization of society. How much of that something was/is "reusable" could be debatable. Could. Most of the time isn't.

    Related to that "isn't", I am hoping you aren't going to challenge that sentiment re Slavic people. Plenty of such characters on this board already. I just skip over their posts. Nothing personal. As I skip over vegan posts re food etc.

    My comment wasn’t meant as a defense of Nazism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    My comment wasn’t meant as a defense of Nazism.
     
    Wow.....
    Fast.

    Of course.
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  116. peterAUS says:
    @Niccolo Salo
    I just read the full entry by Arpad Virag.

    It is complete bullshit.

    I have to ask you Karlin: what makes you, generally a smart guy, so naive as to buy such bullshit without applying any critical thinking?

    Agree.

    My take: Organize Karlin’s visit to Herzegovina. Give him a good guide/translator and have him visit a couple of places there. Have him speak with common people.

    And, should you feel generous, get him “over the line”. Have him visit the part to the East.

    And, should you really feel generous, get him to visit the region along the Drina river.

    I am sure he’ll expand his understanding of the region and people. He’ll probably edit the article.
    As, quote:
    “I just read the full entry by Arpad Virag.

    It is complete bullshit.”

    Read More
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  117. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader
    My comment wasn't meant as a defense of Nazism.

    My comment wasn’t meant as a defense of Nazism.

    Wow…..
    Fast.

    Of course.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    It really wasn't, and imo that should have been obvious. I just object to AaronB's babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.
    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn't support such a project.
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  118. AaronB says:
    @Pericles
    The Right has no access to the long-term deep indoctrination centres, that's why it has some trouble attracting students hailing therefrom. It's certainly less fatalistic than the Left, which is secular, materialistic, nihilistic and so on.

    Liberal idealism springs from intellectual vanity and lack of experience, and some conformism and virtue signaling. I read this interesting science article on buzzfeed; oh I'm actually a PhD in Psychology; of course we together can implement utopia (which will be like a university department but with plentiful funding and everyone has tenure).

    Fair enough, but why did the Right lose access to the long term indoctrination centers? They used to have complete control.

    The right wing power holders seem to have been unable to retain their position of strength. And high IQ people seem to have overwhelmingly found the message of the Left more appealing.

    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.

    How is the Left nihilistic? The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn’t enough. What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic – with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH


    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.
     
    101 for how to make yourself stupider with a worse understanding of the world. In fact the exact opposite of this paragraph would be good advice for you.
    , @Pericles

    Fair enough, but why did the Right lose access to the long term indoctrination centers? They used to have complete control.

     

    I think the literal answer to this question is found back in 1968, at least in Europe. But probably about the same in the US.
    , @Bliss

    What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God. But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world
     
    Firstly, don’t blame secularism which simply means separation of Church and State. Secularism is not anti-spirituality per se. Your issue is with atheism-materialism....which is tolerated under secularism along with all religions and metaphysical ideologies.

    Secondly, western religion from barbarian to greco-roman to christian has never believed in “union with God”. That is Indian (non-vedic) spirituality. So why would the idea of making “that claim” even occur to a western conservative? Whatever made you think that going back to the pre-Enlightenment era, when pantheists were burned at the stake, would result in a society that is “well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God”. That doesn’t make any sense.
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  119. @peterAUS

    My comment wasn’t meant as a defense of Nazism.
     
    Wow.....
    Fast.

    Of course.

    It really wasn’t, and imo that should have been obvious. I just object to AaronB’s babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.
    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn’t support such a project.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    I just object to AaronB’s babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.
     
    Agree.

    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn’t support such a project.
     
    Well, even if you had wouldn't make a difference.

    But, the question(s) remain: "Good and bad, contemporary, elements of Nazi ideology". Practical.

    As for the resident , what, "idealist" (a couple of them around) I do think he/they have something here:

    The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn’t enough. What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic – with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?
     
    What he/they, somehow, fail to see is what happens when masses realize that "endless progress towards social perfection" ain't working as advertised.
    Last time happened in Communist block. Late 80's last century? What, less than 40 years ago?
    But....haha...this time it will be different.
    Sure.

    Those US, British and, apparently even Italian "deplorables" don't feel that way anymore.

    We know what, usually, happens then.
    , @AaronB
    Don't object to my babble. Its good babble.

    But what is your vision? As far as I can see, you seem to be focusing on the practical. That immigration leads to all sorts of bad practical consequences.

    You're right, but I'd say its obvious by now that most people are willing to suffer if it's for idealistic reasons.

    Do you still think that by pointing out the bad consequences of immigration you're gonna win people to your side? Hasn't this failed?
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  120. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    Germany was lucky to lose its colonies in WWI.
     
    It makes zero difference. As long as Germany keeps its absoluty insane asylum laws which are unparalleled anywhere else in the world, we've got a situation where de facto every Arab or African can come, claim asylum and have a very high chance of never getting deported.
    Whether a country had a colonial histoy or not, is quite irrelevant today imo, just look at Sweden. There just is this pernicious narrative that blacks have some kind of right to immigrate to every white country they want to, and Africans are aggressively demanding this "right".

    Sweden is the bane of confactuals. No world wars. No colonies to speak of, unless you count New Sweden. I had hoped it is just something particularly wrong with Sweden, but we are starting to see it in other places now.

    It makes zero difference.

    You are absolutely right – in the long run. Though, I think the UK and France had an early start. Partly, because they were looking to cultivate a special relationship with the natives. It even enters into the rhetoric a lot today, but perhaps that is just blather. But, things are heating up, the rate is increasing in places that didn’t even have the early start, soon they may match or even exceed.

    I know I have used the phrase before, probably tiresomely, but deportation is basically theater of the mind. To begin with, you need border control. Without it, deportation is useless, maybe worse than useless because it convinces some that things are under control or won’t go too far. The truth is there is no limit to how bad things will get with an open border. Unless, some of the MENA people decide to turn away blacks.

    A good immigration system would be like an immune system with various components and layers of action working in concert. I think you need good incentives at each layer. Now the way things are working – they are incentivizing the refugees. Own a hotel that is empty outside the season? It will be filled, and the government will pay you to fill it. Instead, I would pay bounties 1000 Euros/head to capture illegal aliens – but that is after the other things have been taken care of – the border, the welfare, employment (few this last would apply to, though). Infiltrating African communications over the internet and spreading disinformation would probably help too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    I know I have used the phrase before, probably tiresomely, but deportation is basically theater of the mind. To begin with, you need border control.
     
    We've got neither right now; iirc number of successful deportations from Germany is 20 000 a year - while about 200 000 new "refugees" are arriving every year. If you don't cooperate, you probably won't get deported, and of course many countries aren't cooperating in taking back their citizens, and there's no attempt to force them.
    One can only conclude that the political establishment wants this mass immigration, and unless more Germans wake up and vote hard right, this isn't going to change.
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  121. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    And while Israelis in Israel can be quite nice and polite and incredibly helpful and the reputation of rude Israelis is overblown, you are always in danger of experiencing instances of shocking and extraordinary rudeness which is hardly true in Europe or anywhere else I’ve been. And Israelis overseas can be monsters.

     

    There's no Western customer service, people in the shops working is grumpy. People who work in shops think it is below their level, and act like they do a favour for the customers. And the Russian-speaking women, and the Mizrahi guys, usually seem the most grumpy.

    When I wanted a refund in the train station, and I fill in the form (I put my signature in the wrong place), and the guy is acting like 'you fucking idiot'.

    But the social capital is very high - in the case of seeing strangers helping old people with shopping bags, or that they chase after you to tell you your bag is open. If you ask for directions, they can try to take you to the place. And of course, it is very safe outside of a few illegal immigrant area (kids could walk through the city park in the middle of the night, I would not worry).

    This is representative of my experiences:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWW7LUTIKWU

    That’s true, Israelis will be incredibly helpful to you on a personal level, while at the same time being brusque and rude on a general level, with frequent incidents of extraordinarily anti social behavior.

    It’s a weird high octane combination. But you’re right that if you need any kind of help, they’ll go out of their way for you. But then they’ll stun you the next day with some insane anti social act.

    I prefer Japanese style politeness, courtoisie, delicacy, refinement, and the courtly manners of Old Europe, which at its best is quite compatible with personal warmth, but I also appreciate the Israel style with its weird quirks.

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  122. @songbird
    Sweden is the bane of confactuals. No world wars. No colonies to speak of, unless you count New Sweden. I had hoped it is just something particularly wrong with Sweden, but we are starting to see it in other places now.

    It makes zero difference.
     
    You are absolutely right - in the long run. Though, I think the UK and France had an early start. Partly, because they were looking to cultivate a special relationship with the natives. It even enters into the rhetoric a lot today, but perhaps that is just blather. But, things are heating up, the rate is increasing in places that didn't even have the early start, soon they may match or even exceed.

    I know I have used the phrase before, probably tiresomely, but deportation is basically theater of the mind. To begin with, you need border control. Without it, deportation is useless, maybe worse than useless because it convinces some that things are under control or won't go too far. The truth is there is no limit to how bad things will get with an open border. Unless, some of the MENA people decide to turn away blacks.

    A good immigration system would be like an immune system with various components and layers of action working in concert. I think you need good incentives at each layer. Now the way things are working - they are incentivizing the refugees. Own a hotel that is empty outside the season? It will be filled, and the government will pay you to fill it. Instead, I would pay bounties 1000 Euros/head to capture illegal aliens - but that is after the other things have been taken care of - the border, the welfare, employment (few this last would apply to, though). Infiltrating African communications over the internet and spreading disinformation would probably help too.

    I know I have used the phrase before, probably tiresomely, but deportation is basically theater of the mind. To begin with, you need border control.

    We’ve got neither right now; iirc number of successful deportations from Germany is 20 000 a year – while about 200 000 new “refugees” are arriving every year. If you don’t cooperate, you probably won’t get deported, and of course many countries aren’t cooperating in taking back their citizens, and there’s no attempt to force them.
    One can only conclude that the political establishment wants this mass immigration, and unless more Germans wake up and vote hard right, this isn’t going to change.

    Read More
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  123. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader
    It really wasn't, and imo that should have been obvious. I just object to AaronB's babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.
    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn't support such a project.

    I just object to AaronB’s babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.

    Agree.

    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn’t support such a project.

    Well, even if you had wouldn’t make a difference.

    But, the question(s) remain: “Good and bad, contemporary, elements of Nazi ideology”. Practical.

    As for the resident , what, “idealist” (a couple of them around) I do think he/they have something here:

    The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn’t enough. What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic – with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?

    What he/they, somehow, fail to see is what happens when masses realize that “endless progress towards social perfection” ain’t working as advertised.
    Last time happened in Communist block. Late 80′s last century? What, less than 40 years ago?
    But….haha…this time it will be different.
    Sure.

    Those US, British and, apparently even Italian “deplorables” don’t feel that way anymore.

    We know what, usually, happens then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    We know what, usually, happens then.
     
    What's going to happen in your opinion?
    , @AaronB
    What happens is that it gets replaced by another vision of endless progress towards perfection, possibly even more insane. Maybe with a short interval of practical considerations reigning.

    If humans demand progress in some form, and are fundamentally uninterested in stability and order for its own sake, then history is the record of competing visions of progress.

    And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem doomed to sitting history out on the sidelines, shaking their heads at the folly of mankind. Like people on this blog, perhaps.

    Which is a legitimate position to take. But it means giving up on having an influence. It seems only those who have a vision of progress can have an impact.
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  124. @peterAUS

    I just object to AaronB’s babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.
     
    Agree.

    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn’t support such a project.
     
    Well, even if you had wouldn't make a difference.

    But, the question(s) remain: "Good and bad, contemporary, elements of Nazi ideology". Practical.

    As for the resident , what, "idealist" (a couple of them around) I do think he/they have something here:

    The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn’t enough. What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic – with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?
     
    What he/they, somehow, fail to see is what happens when masses realize that "endless progress towards social perfection" ain't working as advertised.
    Last time happened in Communist block. Late 80's last century? What, less than 40 years ago?
    But....haha...this time it will be different.
    Sure.

    Those US, British and, apparently even Italian "deplorables" don't feel that way anymore.

    We know what, usually, happens then.

    We know what, usually, happens then.

    What’s going to happen in your opinion?

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Shooting.

    What level, who, where, how and when is open to debate.

    I'd go for, as most likely, start in Balkans and spread around.
    Conventional.

    From then on who knows?
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  125. AaronB says:
    @German_reader
    It really wasn't, and imo that should have been obvious. I just object to AaronB's babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.
    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn't support such a project.

    Don’t object to my babble. Its good babble.

    But what is your vision? As far as I can see, you seem to be focusing on the practical. That immigration leads to all sorts of bad practical consequences.

    You’re right, but I’d say its obvious by now that most people are willing to suffer if it’s for idealistic reasons.

    Do you still think that by pointing out the bad consequences of immigration you’re gonna win people to your side? Hasn’t this failed?

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Hasn’t this failed?
     
    It hasn't even been tried imo.
    And why do I need a vision, except in the sense of wishing for a functioning society not in thrall to suicidal delusions? Emphasizing that a grave injustice is being perpetrated against us should be effective enough. Contrary to your assertions, I think if most people realized the full consequences of what's going on, they wouldn't be willing to suffer it for idealistic reasons.
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  126. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    I just object to AaronB’s babble about love-based universal religions, because in reality at least their Islamic version frequently manifests itself in strong ingroup preferences and behaviour towards others that is markedly hostile.
     
    Agree.

    I can assure you I have no plans for the subjugation or extermination of Slavs and wouldn’t support such a project.
     
    Well, even if you had wouldn't make a difference.

    But, the question(s) remain: "Good and bad, contemporary, elements of Nazi ideology". Practical.

    As for the resident , what, "idealist" (a couple of them around) I do think he/they have something here:

    The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn’t enough. What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic – with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?
     
    What he/they, somehow, fail to see is what happens when masses realize that "endless progress towards social perfection" ain't working as advertised.
    Last time happened in Communist block. Late 80's last century? What, less than 40 years ago?
    But....haha...this time it will be different.
    Sure.

    Those US, British and, apparently even Italian "deplorables" don't feel that way anymore.

    We know what, usually, happens then.

    What happens is that it gets replaced by another vision of endless progress towards perfection, possibly even more insane. Maybe with a short interval of practical considerations reigning.

    If humans demand progress in some form, and are fundamentally uninterested in stability and order for its own sake, then history is the record of competing visions of progress.

    And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem doomed to sitting history out on the sidelines, shaking their heads at the folly of mankind. Like people on this blog, perhaps.

    Which is a legitimate position to take. But it means giving up on having an influence. It seems only those who have a vision of progress can have an impact.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    What happens is that it gets replaced by another vision of endless progress towards perfection, possibly even more insane.
     
    Could be. With Huxley version of future to enforce that.

    Or....bloody ethnic/civil war(s).
    "Us" vs "them".

    If humans demand progress in some form, and are fundamentally uninterested in stability and order for its own sake, then history is the record of competing visions of progress.
     
    That's one way to look at it.
    Another is "then history is the record of competing groups fighting each other".

    And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem doomed to sitting history out on the sidelines, shaking their heads at the folly of mankind. Like people on this blog, perhaps.
     
    Could be.
    Or "And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem destined to "clear" the "other" from their territories while loving doing it. Like a lot of people not posting anything anywhere. Not the type".

    It seems only those who have a vision of progress can have an impact.
     
    You mean "get rid of THEM and all will be fine".?
    Looks to me it has worked as charm throughout history of humankind whenever masses didn't get enough of "breads and circuses".

    You know, such things, when start, have own logic.
    Starting it isn't that hard. Actually, when conditions are right not starting it is very hard.
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  127. DFH says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    The US is really wild if you think about it. Where I live, horses graze a little bit outside my back yard. They're technically owned by people in mobile houses and trailers, but I suppose they figured that they have plenty of room to roam if left to run around.

    Where I work, its one of those gleaming SWPL paradises where everything prices out NAMs and for that matter, a good percentage of whites as well. I don't spend a lot of time there - but some people apparently really like it. Having been very impoverished at one point in my life, I don't identify with them. I still remember what it is like to walk home with groceries under the blazing sun, and drop a bag to lose part of a day's paycheck to an accident.

    If I take the rail, or if I choose to drive a bit further into the heart of the city, drugged blacks wander around in the stations. Some of them, clearly mentally deranged, will randomly run up and "playfully" tackle you in rather pathetic little efforts at robbery. No one prosecutes them, its clear that something is wrong with them and its clear that they're not actually that harmful, but at the same time, letting them amuck is probably a bad idea.

    I think random, poorly-kept horses popping up in my backyard are far superior in comparison.

    Funny thing is that its all like three hours from each other.

    Why is a Chinese living in the US anyway? Leave

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I'm here so you can see an example of a better person than yourself.
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  128. DFH says:
    @AaronB
    Fair enough, but why did the Right lose access to the long term indoctrination centers? They used to have complete control.

    The right wing power holders seem to have been unable to retain their position of strength. And high IQ people seem to have overwhelmingly found the message of the Left more appealing.

    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.

    How is the Left nihilistic? The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn't enough. What's missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can't seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic - with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?

    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.

    101 for how to make yourself stupider with a worse understanding of the world. In fact the exact opposite of this paragraph would be good advice for you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    How do you mean?

    It seems to me the mechanics of a situation are always the result of first principles.

    One can make a simple observation that the Right has lost the indoctrination centers, and conclude they need to be retaken. That's a simple mechanical process.

    But if the Right lost power because it's message subtly changed into something without appeal, and the Left gained power because it's message has appeal, then it seems the intelligent thing to do is first understand these processes before you can focus on regaining power.
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  129. @AaronB
    Don't object to my babble. Its good babble.

    But what is your vision? As far as I can see, you seem to be focusing on the practical. That immigration leads to all sorts of bad practical consequences.

    You're right, but I'd say its obvious by now that most people are willing to suffer if it's for idealistic reasons.

    Do you still think that by pointing out the bad consequences of immigration you're gonna win people to your side? Hasn't this failed?

    Hasn’t this failed?

    It hasn’t even been tried imo.
    And why do I need a vision, except in the sense of wishing for a functioning society not in thrall to suicidal delusions? Emphasizing that a grave injustice is being perpetrated against us should be effective enough. Contrary to your assertions, I think if most people realized the full consequences of what’s going on, they wouldn’t be willing to suffer it for idealistic reasons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    You don't need a vision beyond a functioning society that's pleasant to live in, but any political program that's only about that won't have a lot of impact. I think history has shown that beyond a doubt.

    You disagree and think its just a question of explaining things properly to people - that they simply don't understand they are making things less pleasant for themselves. That's it's a cognitive error, not a question of values.

    This is a massive error in my view that simply ignores nine tenths of the historical record. Its like you're thinking of another species, not humans.

    But I also make the mistake of thinking resistance to my spiritual message is just a cognitive error that can be cleared up if properly explained.

    But of course it can't be because neither of us are dealing with a cognitive error, but something much more fundamental.

    We are fools :)
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  130. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    Hasn’t this failed?
     
    It hasn't even been tried imo.
    And why do I need a vision, except in the sense of wishing for a functioning society not in thrall to suicidal delusions? Emphasizing that a grave injustice is being perpetrated against us should be effective enough. Contrary to your assertions, I think if most people realized the full consequences of what's going on, they wouldn't be willing to suffer it for idealistic reasons.

    You don’t need a vision beyond a functioning society that’s pleasant to live in, but any political program that’s only about that won’t have a lot of impact. I think history has shown that beyond a doubt.

    You disagree and think its just a question of explaining things properly to people – that they simply don’t understand they are making things less pleasant for themselves. That’s it’s a cognitive error, not a question of values.

    This is a massive error in my view that simply ignores nine tenths of the historical record. Its like you’re thinking of another species, not humans.

    But I also make the mistake of thinking resistance to my spiritual message is just a cognitive error that can be cleared up if properly explained.

    But of course it can’t be because neither of us are dealing with a cognitive error, but something much more fundamental.

    We are fools :)

    Read More
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  131. @Dmitry
    The most disgusting ones ever I see in Spain and Italy.

    In Spain I got some stain on liquid shit on quite new pair of shoes.

    In California, I think the toilets overall were clean (I didn't use train, just airports, shopping malls, etc).

    The most disgusting ones ever I see in Spain and Italy.

    Just goes to show that we all have different impressions of places. I have travelled around Spain far more than you, and have found the toilets to be generally quite clean, far more so than in France for example. Indeed, in the part of France where we lived many of the public toilets (including those in the schools attended by my children) were “Turkish” toilets.

    I have to say that the worst toilets by far I ever experienced were in the late- and early post-USSR. I recall one of my colleagues complaining about a particular restroom saying that “it smelled like shit”, and another replying “Yes, but what have they done to it?”.

    I assume that things there are much better now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Just goes to show that we all have different impressions of places. I have travelled around Spain far more than you, and have found the toilets to be generally quite clean, far more so than in France for example. Indeed, in the part of France where we lived many of the public toilets (including those in the schools attended by my children) were “Turkish” toilets.

    I have to say that the worst toilets by far I ever experienced were in the late- and early post-USSR. I recall one of my colleagues complaining about a particular restroom saying that “it smelled like shit”, and another replying “Yes, but what have they done to it?”.

    I assume that things there are much better now.

     

    I don't know if you mean public toilets. If you visit my hometown, I would tell you to avoid public toilets (unless it is some kind of health emergency or you needed desperately somewhere that is too disgusting for police to enter, in which to inject your heroin in quiet). There are some which are not connected to the sewage system.

    Also in the most expensive suburb outside the city, there is a story that at the end of the transport line, the city does not build toilets - so all the bus drivers are shitting on the ground.

    -

    As for Spain. I remember in airports in Spain, it is clean. The more gross experience was in a famous sandwich pub. And a couple of times in other place I open the door, and then just walk out.

    I am also confused by the jokes they put on the door to indicate if it is for men or for women.

    The other funny thing in Spain for me is how all the stuff and paper they randomly throw on the floor in the pub to cover it with paper trash (wtf is the reason for this).

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  132. AaronB says:
    @DFH


    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.
     
    101 for how to make yourself stupider with a worse understanding of the world. In fact the exact opposite of this paragraph would be good advice for you.

    How do you mean?

    It seems to me the mechanics of a situation are always the result of first principles.

    One can make a simple observation that the Right has lost the indoctrination centers, and conclude they need to be retaken. That’s a simple mechanical process.

    But if the Right lost power because it’s message subtly changed into something without appeal, and the Left gained power because it’s message has appeal, then it seems the intelligent thing to do is first understand these processes before you can focus on regaining power.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    It seems to me the mechanics of a situation are always the result of first principles.
     
    Your talk of spiritual values, "faith in God" etc. has zero appeal as a political slogan.
    Emphasizing the concrete negative consequences of mass immigration is much better. Talk about the housing shortage created by the influx of foreigners and how it makes the situation even harder for young families and those lower down the economic scale. Talk about the rise in crime and how it increasingly restricts women's freedom of movement. Talk about the immense sums spent on people who have never contributed anything to the system and are unlikely to do so and which instead could be spent on citizens. You need to get people to understand that their own future is being destroyed by a government of traitors and you need them to get to see the foreigners as ungrateful parasites who aren't deserving of our help and are exploiting our charity, without the slightest intention of ever reciprocating. You need to whip up rage and hatred in people. It's ugly, but there is no other way.
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  133. @AaronB
    How do you mean?

    It seems to me the mechanics of a situation are always the result of first principles.

    One can make a simple observation that the Right has lost the indoctrination centers, and conclude they need to be retaken. That's a simple mechanical process.

    But if the Right lost power because it's message subtly changed into something without appeal, and the Left gained power because it's message has appeal, then it seems the intelligent thing to do is first understand these processes before you can focus on regaining power.

    It seems to me the mechanics of a situation are always the result of first principles.

    Your talk of spiritual values, “faith in God” etc. has zero appeal as a political slogan.
    Emphasizing the concrete negative consequences of mass immigration is much better. Talk about the housing shortage created by the influx of foreigners and how it makes the situation even harder for young families and those lower down the economic scale. Talk about the rise in crime and how it increasingly restricts women’s freedom of movement. Talk about the immense sums spent on people who have never contributed anything to the system and are unlikely to do so and which instead could be spent on citizens. You need to get people to understand that their own future is being destroyed by a government of traitors and you need them to get to see the foreigners as ungrateful parasites who aren’t deserving of our help and are exploiting our charity, without the slightest intention of ever reciprocating. You need to whip up rage and hatred in people. It’s ugly, but there is no other way.

    Read More
    • Agree: Hyperborean
    • Replies: @AaronB
    You are right, in today's world my talk of god and spiritual values has zero appeal. Especially since these words have lost their meaning of pursuit of perfection and have come mean restrictive rules whose purpose is practical.

    Which means your practical concerns likewise aren't going to have a serious impact.

    For the time we are at an impasse, and the Left will continue to have it all its way.

    I would only say that whatever manages to supplant the Left eventually will have to beat it on its own terms - idealism.
    , @peterAUS
    Yup.
    , @Anon

    “faith in God” etc. has zero appeal as a political slogan
     
    That's probably true in the modern West. And, honestly, AaronB's "solutions" are pretty silly. But "women’s freedom of movement" is a pretty stupid slogan too. "Love is stronger than hate" is trite but true politically-- if you want to preserve Europe as an entity, or its component nations, you are going to have to find something positive about it, or them. Historically that's been through their place in Christendom. If that's out, you're going to have to find something else, and fast.
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  134. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    It seems to me the mechanics of a situation are always the result of first principles.
     
    Your talk of spiritual values, "faith in God" etc. has zero appeal as a political slogan.
    Emphasizing the concrete negative consequences of mass immigration is much better. Talk about the housing shortage created by the influx of foreigners and how it makes the situation even harder for young families and those lower down the economic scale. Talk about the rise in crime and how it increasingly restricts women's freedom of movement. Talk about the immense sums spent on people who have never contributed anything to the system and are unlikely to do so and which instead could be spent on citizens. You need to get people to understand that their own future is being destroyed by a government of traitors and you need them to get to see the foreigners as ungrateful parasites who aren't deserving of our help and are exploiting our charity, without the slightest intention of ever reciprocating. You need to whip up rage and hatred in people. It's ugly, but there is no other way.

    You are right, in today’s world my talk of god and spiritual values has zero appeal. Especially since these words have lost their meaning of pursuit of perfection and have come mean restrictive rules whose purpose is practical.

    Which means your practical concerns likewise aren’t going to have a serious impact.

    For the time we are at an impasse, and the Left will continue to have it all its way.

    I would only say that whatever manages to supplant the Left eventually will have to beat it on its own terms – idealism.

    Read More
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  135. @DFH
    Why is a Chinese living in the US anyway? Leave

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gjj1-tJ3y2M/WmbxxxW1c1I/AAAAAAAAGC0/W67kBMq_HLUUXIfDfdn9V05GeSCIaFUFACLcBGAs/s1600/Chinese%2Bexclusion%2Bact.jpg

    I’m here so you can see an example of a better person than yourself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    And thank you for that. We learn by having good models to inspire us.
    , @DFH
    Go home
    , @Polish Perspective
    Stay.
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  136. Pericles says:
    @AaronB
    Fair enough, but why did the Right lose access to the long term indoctrination centers? They used to have complete control.

    The right wing power holders seem to have been unable to retain their position of strength. And high IQ people seem to have overwhelmingly found the message of the Left more appealing.

    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.

    How is the Left nihilistic? The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn't enough. What's missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can't seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic - with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?

    Fair enough, but why did the Right lose access to the long term indoctrination centers? They used to have complete control.

    I think the literal answer to this question is found back in 1968, at least in Europe. But probably about the same in the US.

    Read More
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  137. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I'm here so you can see an example of a better person than yourself.

    And thank you for that. We learn by having good models to inspire us.

    Read More
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  138. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader

    We know what, usually, happens then.
     
    What's going to happen in your opinion?

    Shooting.

    What level, who, where, how and when is open to debate.

    I’d go for, as most likely, start in Balkans and spread around.
    Conventional.

    From then on who knows?

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  139. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB
    What happens is that it gets replaced by another vision of endless progress towards perfection, possibly even more insane. Maybe with a short interval of practical considerations reigning.

    If humans demand progress in some form, and are fundamentally uninterested in stability and order for its own sake, then history is the record of competing visions of progress.

    And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem doomed to sitting history out on the sidelines, shaking their heads at the folly of mankind. Like people on this blog, perhaps.

    Which is a legitimate position to take. But it means giving up on having an influence. It seems only those who have a vision of progress can have an impact.

    What happens is that it gets replaced by another vision of endless progress towards perfection, possibly even more insane.

    Could be. With Huxley version of future to enforce that.

    Or….bloody ethnic/civil war(s).
    “Us” vs “them”.

    If humans demand progress in some form, and are fundamentally uninterested in stability and order for its own sake, then history is the record of competing visions of progress.

    That’s one way to look at it.
    Another is “then history is the record of competing groups fighting each other”.

    And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem doomed to sitting history out on the sidelines, shaking their heads at the folly of mankind. Like people on this blog, perhaps.

    Could be.
    Or “And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem destined to “clear” the “other” from their territories while loving doing it. Like a lot of people not posting anything anywhere. Not the type”.

    It seems only those who have a vision of progress can have an impact.

    You mean “get rid of THEM and all will be fine”.?
    Looks to me it has worked as charm throughout history of humankind whenever masses didn’t get enough of “breads and circuses”.

    You know, such things, when start, have own logic.
    Starting it isn’t that hard. Actually, when conditions are right not starting it is very hard.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate. That's why the Left reigns supreme. And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That's why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.
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  140. peterAUS says:
    @German_reader

    It seems to me the mechanics of a situation are always the result of first principles.
     
    Your talk of spiritual values, "faith in God" etc. has zero appeal as a political slogan.
    Emphasizing the concrete negative consequences of mass immigration is much better. Talk about the housing shortage created by the influx of foreigners and how it makes the situation even harder for young families and those lower down the economic scale. Talk about the rise in crime and how it increasingly restricts women's freedom of movement. Talk about the immense sums spent on people who have never contributed anything to the system and are unlikely to do so and which instead could be spent on citizens. You need to get people to understand that their own future is being destroyed by a government of traitors and you need them to get to see the foreigners as ungrateful parasites who aren't deserving of our help and are exploiting our charity, without the slightest intention of ever reciprocating. You need to whip up rage and hatred in people. It's ugly, but there is no other way.

    Yup.

    Read More
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  141. utu says:
    @Dmitry
    He's 20 years old now. He claims to have been there in 2015, when he was 17 years old, and in the story in his first post that he was travelling on his own.

    He manages to get every concrete detail of the country wrong, or inverted, about the places he visited. (From the modern train station in the airport onwards).

    Meanwhile, he has miraculously been allowed past security every time and never stopped (literally impossible 100% - I get stopped all the time there), treated better than Mizrahi Jews (i.e. all the local Israelis), yet "wryly" discussed time-keeping with locals (the issue arose due to his being assumed to be German), and has a special kinship with Ethiopian Jews (despite that he is right-wing) who he witnesses being publicly mistreated on public transport, and who condolence with him as a fellow outsider.

    The 17 year old also has somehow visited Hebron and explored security situation of the West Bank, in addition to travelling security free through all the supermarkets and shops (while claiming they are higher security in North Tel Aviv, and having lived in the Arab quarter of the town, yet believed he was being better treated by racist Israelis as a European there - yet almost all the hospitality staff in that area are open Arabs?).

    An imaginary narrative (funnily left-wing oriented) to match the stories in the Max Blumenthal book that we telling me he was reading last week - and in which I replied that he needs to get first-hand experience of the country.

    I suspect he might be not honest about his age. It is possible that it was one little unnecessary lie that he has to keep on or that it was an anti self-doxxing measure of which he said he was concerned of not so long ago. But I have no problems with anything he writes except it is just too good to come from a 20 year old but not impossible. As far as his description of Israel, wherever it comes from, it feels more credible than your usually Pollyannish spin. Anyway I am ready to have more of Polish Perspective’s comment coming here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Why? he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB), i.e. he knows nothing, as he has never been.

    I can tell instantly the forgeries, because I know the place personally.

    I think Westerners have mind that will believe anything that fits their emotional view though.

    -


    Also he was claiming that someone was impersonating him on the Shamir forum.


    P.S.

    If you look at my profile, it seems someone has been using my name and posting comments on Israel Shamir articles. I don’t know what’s more insulting, that someone would impersonate me or that someone would even think I would post on such articles in the first place.

    To be clear, I almost only post on AK blogs. I have posted a few odd comments on iSteve. To the extent I post anything outside those two blogs it is never on Russia. All Russia-related stuff(including Russian actions in Syria, which doesn’t interest me greatly to begin with) will be posted on AK. So if anyone sees my name on Shamir/Saker/whatever articles, know it is fake. I hope the imposter gets rooted out. I certainly don’t want to get my comment history wiped because of some douchebag using my name.

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.
     

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/armenia-update/?highlight=ip#comment-2299615


    Lol how can the person trolling you, both share your IP address, and also know your email address to log-in to your account, unless they are also using the same computer?

    , @Polish Perspective

    Anyway I am ready to have more of Polish Perspective’s comment coming here.
     
    There is not much to add. I am 20 right now, though that fact will change later this summer. I went to Israel in the fall of 2015, close to Christmas, so I was 18 back then. Perhaps my age played a role, I don't know. Honestly, I don't really care. I made a number of social observations and I stand by them.
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  142. DFH says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I'm here so you can see an example of a better person than yourself.

    Go home

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    Why do you care if Daniel Chieh is a U.S. citizen or not? You're not even American, are you?
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  143. Dmitry says:
    @for-the-record
    The most disgusting ones ever I see in Spain and Italy.

    Just goes to show that we all have different impressions of places. I have travelled around Spain far more than you, and have found the toilets to be generally quite clean, far more so than in France for example. Indeed, in the part of France where we lived many of the public toilets (including those in the schools attended by my children) were "Turkish" toilets.

    I have to say that the worst toilets by far I ever experienced were in the late- and early post-USSR. I recall one of my colleagues complaining about a particular restroom saying that "it smelled like shit", and another replying "Yes, but what have they done to it?".

    I assume that things there are much better now.

    Just goes to show that we all have different impressions of places. I have travelled around Spain far more than you, and have found the toilets to be generally quite clean, far more so than in France for example. Indeed, in the part of France where we lived many of the public toilets (including those in the schools attended by my children) were “Turkish” toilets.

    I have to say that the worst toilets by far I ever experienced were in the late- and early post-USSR. I recall one of my colleagues complaining about a particular restroom saying that “it smelled like shit”, and another replying “Yes, but what have they done to it?”.

    I assume that things there are much better now.

    I don’t know if you mean public toilets. If you visit my hometown, I would tell you to avoid public toilets (unless it is some kind of health emergency or you needed desperately somewhere that is too disgusting for police to enter, in which to inject your heroin in quiet). There are some which are not connected to the sewage system.

    Also in the most expensive suburb outside the city, there is a story that at the end of the transport line, the city does not build toilets – so all the bus drivers are shitting on the ground.

    -

    As for Spain. I remember in airports in Spain, it is clean. The more gross experience was in a famous sandwich pub. And a couple of times in other place I open the door, and then just walk out.

    I am also confused by the jokes they put on the door to indicate if it is for men or for women.

    The other funny thing in Spain for me is how all the stuff and paper they randomly throw on the floor in the pub to cover it with paper trash (wtf is the reason for this).

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  144. @DFH
    Go home

    Why do you care if Daniel Chieh is a U.S. citizen or not? You’re not even American, are you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    He thinks of the US as a temporarily uppity British colony, I think.
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  145. Dmitry says:
    @utu
    I suspect he might be not honest about his age. It is possible that it was one little unnecessary lie that he has to keep on or that it was an anti self-doxxing measure of which he said he was concerned of not so long ago. But I have no problems with anything he writes except it is just too good to come from a 20 year old but not impossible. As far as his description of Israel, wherever it comes from, it feels more credible than your usually Pollyannish spin. Anyway I am ready to have more of Polish Perspective's comment coming here.

    Why? he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB), i.e. he knows nothing, as he has never been.

    I can tell instantly the forgeries, because I know the place personally.

    I think Westerners have mind that will believe anything that fits their emotional view though.

    -

    Also he was claiming that someone was impersonating him on the Shamir forum.

    P.S.

    If you look at my profile, it seems someone has been using my name and posting comments on Israel Shamir articles. I don’t know what’s more insulting, that someone would impersonate me or that someone would even think I would post on such articles in the first place.

    To be clear, I almost only post on AK blogs. I have posted a few odd comments on iSteve. To the extent I post anything outside those two blogs it is never on Russia. All Russia-related stuff(including Russian actions in Syria, which doesn’t interest me greatly to begin with) will be posted on AK. So if anyone sees my name on Shamir/Saker/whatever articles, know it is fake. I hope the imposter gets rooted out. I certainly don’t want to get my comment history wiped because of some douchebag using my name.

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/armenia-update/?highlight=ip#comment-2299615

    Lol how can the person trolling you, both share your IP address, and also know your email address to log-in to your account, unless they are also using the same computer?

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    I think Westerners have mind that will believe anything that fits their emotional view though.
     
    That's harsh.
    I personally find some elements of Polish perspective's Israel report a bit strange, but since I've never been there I can't judge for sure, and I don't care enough to look into it.
    In general one should be somewhat skeptical about anything people claim about themselves on the net anyway.
    , @for-the-record
    he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB),

    How about me, was my visit fake too?

    And considering that you seem to take pride in not having read much if anything about the historical background of the current situation, what gives you the right to pronounce yourself the master of all things related to Israel?
    , @utu

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.
     
    And how AK was able to determine that? I could not find PP's comments under Shamir articles. Somebody deleted them? Who? Under what authority?

    It can be nothing. But perhaps PP has reason to feel paranoid about somebody doxxing him or is it gaslighting?

    As far as Israel goes you really do not have that much credibility with your almost always Pollyannish stories. Somebody once called them an affable hasbara, I think. The fact that most of us have never been to Israel does not mean that we can't form opinions about it and determine which stories seems right and which are not. Your seem to be controlling about Israel as if you wanted to have a monopoly on the narrative. You haven't seen everything and you haven't been everywhere and you should assume as every reasonable observer you are not entirely objective either. For instance I found this article about railways and railway stations in Israel where they say that the stations are nor really great and food is horrible. To which you posted some video of somebody being at airport and traveling on train. Airports usually look good and PP did not mention the airport iirc. Did this video contradict anything PP wrote?
    , @reiner Tor
    However, there’s the case of useless skepticism. Some commenters were for example questioning the identity of Thorfinsson, while it’s since been half corroborated by Karlin. Now Thorfinsson’s identity was irrelevant to the content of his comments. Why waste skepticism on it? The easy thing is to just discount the personal anecdotes regardless.

    You have to remember that it’s easy to mix things up yet remember with seeming clarity. So for example the train station could be mixed up in his mind with another train station. Now there’s a lesson here about the usefulness of personal anecdotes: he might be giving false information about his visit even if he was there and he didn’t consciously try to lie or distort even the smallest detail.

    Some of the reasons for skepticism are good in any individual case, but you have to remember that commenters here are a small self-selected group. I know for sure that some very influential people do frequent comment boards. Why not scions of seemingly rich families? (Where at age 17 you are already traveling around the world.)

    Regarding connecting with the Ethiopians. I had similar experiences in Western Europe. I couldn’t speak the local language, and the locals acted disdainfully. The nonwhite immigrants were the most understanding about my situation. There was a connection of both of us being marginalized, to use cultural Marxist terminology. And I look pretty Western European.

    Or the Mizrahi Jews being colorists towards other Mizrahi looking people. What’s incredible in this story? I don’t know if it’s true or not, but Mizrahi Jews are probably sensible people who understand that terrorists will likely look like, well, Arabs, and so they will stop Arab looking people more. Even if this means harassing fellow Mizrahi Jews. In Northern Ireland redheaded policemen or soldiers were probably more likely to stop and harass identical looking redheads than the odd Japanese tourist or Indian immigrant.

    It’s interesting that you also seem to have at least upper middle class parents who sent you to language courses to places like London. You can speak a multitude of languages. You keep traveling around the world and apparently work in well-paying jobs in maybe Western Europe. It seems you might even be changing your residency and hence jobs frequently, or at least you’re getting lots of vacations. With a Russian passport. Or maybe you’re a businessman. (Though you don’t come across as one.)

    Some of your stories seemed strange (the girl whose scalp got sunburnt under the hair - I thought sure it must be a misunderstanding), but I largely believe your identity of being a high income Russian albino with a Jewish grandpa and a love of Israel and Russia. (For both countries you have argued in a way which showed emotional attachment. Not that you tried to hide it.) At least until contrary evidence comes to light.

    Why waste my energies on unduly skepticism? The proper thing to do is to simply discount all personal anecdotes. People often distort these even to themselves without consciously lying.

    At the end of the day it’s irrelevant who’s making the comments, unless your goal is to dox someone.

    The experience I have from Hungarian forums is that people are usually what they say they are. I remember one guy claiming to be a catholic priest was almost conclusively (but still without absolute certainty) shown to be not a catholic priest. Probably it happens occasionally. But it’s difficult.
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  146. @Dmitry
    Why? he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB), i.e. he knows nothing, as he has never been.

    I can tell instantly the forgeries, because I know the place personally.

    I think Westerners have mind that will believe anything that fits their emotional view though.

    -


    Also he was claiming that someone was impersonating him on the Shamir forum.


    P.S.

    If you look at my profile, it seems someone has been using my name and posting comments on Israel Shamir articles. I don’t know what’s more insulting, that someone would impersonate me or that someone would even think I would post on such articles in the first place.

    To be clear, I almost only post on AK blogs. I have posted a few odd comments on iSteve. To the extent I post anything outside those two blogs it is never on Russia. All Russia-related stuff(including Russian actions in Syria, which doesn’t interest me greatly to begin with) will be posted on AK. So if anyone sees my name on Shamir/Saker/whatever articles, know it is fake. I hope the imposter gets rooted out. I certainly don’t want to get my comment history wiped because of some douchebag using my name.

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.
     

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/armenia-update/?highlight=ip#comment-2299615


    Lol how can the person trolling you, both share your IP address, and also know your email address to log-in to your account, unless they are also using the same computer?

    I think Westerners have mind that will believe anything that fits their emotional view though.

    That’s harsh.
    I personally find some elements of Polish perspective’s Israel report a bit strange, but since I’ve never been there I can’t judge for sure, and I don’t care enough to look into it.
    In general one should be somewhat skeptical about anything people claim about themselves on the net anyway.

    Read More
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  147. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    What happens is that it gets replaced by another vision of endless progress towards perfection, possibly even more insane.
     
    Could be. With Huxley version of future to enforce that.

    Or....bloody ethnic/civil war(s).
    "Us" vs "them".

    If humans demand progress in some form, and are fundamentally uninterested in stability and order for its own sake, then history is the record of competing visions of progress.
     
    That's one way to look at it.
    Another is "then history is the record of competing groups fighting each other".

    And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem doomed to sitting history out on the sidelines, shaking their heads at the folly of mankind. Like people on this blog, perhaps.
     
    Could be.
    Or "And those who advocate merely practical concerns seem destined to "clear" the "other" from their territories while loving doing it. Like a lot of people not posting anything anywhere. Not the type".

    It seems only those who have a vision of progress can have an impact.
     
    You mean "get rid of THEM and all will be fine".?
    Looks to me it has worked as charm throughout history of humankind whenever masses didn't get enough of "breads and circuses".

    You know, such things, when start, have own logic.
    Starting it isn't that hard. Actually, when conditions are right not starting it is very hard.

    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate. That’s why the Left reigns supreme. And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate. That’s why the Left reigns supreme. And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.
     
    That's one way to look at it.

    There is another:
    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate the public sphere. The "talking" sphere.
    Reality, in those places, is different from the "talking" sphere.

    Even in West one can see that.
    Everybody was talking Hilary victory and Brexit failing. Nobody was talking this in Italy. Etc.

    In Eastern Europe that's on the next level.


    That’s why the Left reigns supreme.
     
    It does . In the "talking" sphere.
    You, as most of over-educated but politically inexperienced people confuse that sphere with reality.

    And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.
     
    I see.

    No prob.
    We'll see how unimportant Europe will be when the shooting there starts.
    Like a couple of times before........

    You know, I had chats with people like you once upon a time.
    They had all the arguments, won all the debates. Reigned supreme in "talking" space.

    The other guys just had guns........

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  148. @Dmitry
    Why? he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB), i.e. he knows nothing, as he has never been.

    I can tell instantly the forgeries, because I know the place personally.

    I think Westerners have mind that will believe anything that fits their emotional view though.

    -


    Also he was claiming that someone was impersonating him on the Shamir forum.


    P.S.

    If you look at my profile, it seems someone has been using my name and posting comments on Israel Shamir articles. I don’t know what’s more insulting, that someone would impersonate me or that someone would even think I would post on such articles in the first place.

    To be clear, I almost only post on AK blogs. I have posted a few odd comments on iSteve. To the extent I post anything outside those two blogs it is never on Russia. All Russia-related stuff(including Russian actions in Syria, which doesn’t interest me greatly to begin with) will be posted on AK. So if anyone sees my name on Shamir/Saker/whatever articles, know it is fake. I hope the imposter gets rooted out. I certainly don’t want to get my comment history wiped because of some douchebag using my name.

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.
     

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/armenia-update/?highlight=ip#comment-2299615


    Lol how can the person trolling you, both share your IP address, and also know your email address to log-in to your account, unless they are also using the same computer?

    he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB),

    How about me, was my visit fake too?

    And considering that you seem to take pride in not having read much if anything about the historical background of the current situation, what gives you the right to pronounce yourself the master of all things related to Israel?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB and for-the-record),


    You are my editors or something?

    And neither have I read for years any history book about Russia. But I can promise you, if someone tells me they can pass through any security checks (had we had such security checks happening multiple times a day) from their hair colour, or that they had some special rapport with publicly ignored minority group such as Ossetians - while on public transport - as ones who had in some Ossetian way also magically recognized the European tourist as a fellow outsider. That they had not been to the country. Probably we should add something more creative about riding bears to tell these people.
    , @Polish Perspective

    How about me, was my visit fake too?
     
    Ignore him. He is obviously hyperemotional about Israel for reasons which are not rational.
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  149. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB
    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate. That's why the Left reigns supreme. And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That's why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.

    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate. That’s why the Left reigns supreme. And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.

    That’s one way to look at it.

    There is another:
    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate the public sphere. The “talking” sphere.
    Reality, in those places, is different from the “talking” sphere.

    Even in West one can see that.
    Everybody was talking Hilary victory and Brexit failing. Nobody was talking this in Italy. Etc.

    In Eastern Europe that’s on the next level.

    That’s why the Left reigns supreme.

    It does . In the “talking” sphere.
    You, as most of over-educated but politically inexperienced people confuse that sphere with reality.

    And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.

    I see.

    No prob.
    We’ll see how unimportant Europe will be when the shooting there starts.
    Like a couple of times before……..

    You know, I had chats with people like you once upon a time.
    They had all the arguments, won all the debates. Reigned supreme in “talking” space.

    The other guys just had guns……..

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    The people with guns today are often very idealistic and religious. I'm sure they'll be a force to be reckoned with. I'm not talking about those people when I talk about people with no vision.

    I'm talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live. I don't think such people are likely to influence history. I'm sure he'd agree and say why should he want to. He's right.

    I'm just pointing out that the people who supplant the Left will want more out of life than just a nice place to live. They may well be your men with guns.
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  150. AaronB says:
    @peterAUS

    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate. That’s why the Left reigns supreme. And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.
     
    That's one way to look at it.

    There is another:
    The problem with your analysis is that within countries groups that have a vision of progress dominate the public sphere. The "talking" sphere.
    Reality, in those places, is different from the "talking" sphere.

    Even in West one can see that.
    Everybody was talking Hilary victory and Brexit failing. Nobody was talking this in Italy. Etc.

    In Eastern Europe that's on the next level.


    That’s why the Left reigns supreme.
     
    It does . In the "talking" sphere.
    You, as most of over-educated but politically inexperienced people confuse that sphere with reality.

    And between countries those that have a vision of progress compete, and those without are sidelined. That’s why China and the US compete, while the EU despite all its wealth is unimportant.
     
    I see.

    No prob.
    We'll see how unimportant Europe will be when the shooting there starts.
    Like a couple of times before........

    You know, I had chats with people like you once upon a time.
    They had all the arguments, won all the debates. Reigned supreme in "talking" space.

    The other guys just had guns........

    The people with guns today are often very idealistic and religious. I’m sure they’ll be a force to be reckoned with. I’m not talking about those people when I talk about people with no vision.

    I’m talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live. I don’t think such people are likely to influence history. I’m sure he’d agree and say why should he want to. He’s right.

    I’m just pointing out that the people who supplant the Left will want more out of life than just a nice place to live. They may well be your men with guns.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    I’m talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live.
     
    No, you're wrong, I do want more. Above all I want vengeance and a harsh punishment for those responsible for the present situation. It's not just about a pleasant life and material comfort, it's about justice.
    , @Bliss

    The people with guns today are often very idealistic and religious. I’m sure they’ll be a force to be reckoned with. I’m not talking about those people when I talk about people with no vision.
     
    So all your talk about Love and Spirituality was a lie, just as I suspected. What you really want to see is not the Truth but Holy Warriors like the Jihadis and Crusaders who will crush the votaries of Rationalism, Secularism and Egalitarianism and take the West back to the Dark Ages. Right?
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  151. @AaronB
    The people with guns today are often very idealistic and religious. I'm sure they'll be a force to be reckoned with. I'm not talking about those people when I talk about people with no vision.

    I'm talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live. I don't think such people are likely to influence history. I'm sure he'd agree and say why should he want to. He's right.

    I'm just pointing out that the people who supplant the Left will want more out of life than just a nice place to live. They may well be your men with guns.

    I’m talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live.

    No, you’re wrong, I do want more. Above all I want vengeance and a harsh punishment for those responsible for the present situation. It’s not just about a pleasant life and material comfort, it’s about justice.

    Read More
    • Agree: Greasy William
    • Replies: @AaronB
    Now you're talking. Anger is a better than apathy. Although anger also must be overcome on the way to spiritual perfection.

    But anger, vengeance, and justice are spiritually healthier than apathy.
    , @Greasy William
    Exactly. I don't want a better life for myself. I want a worse life for the Left.
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  152. utu says:
    @Dmitry
    Why? he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB), i.e. he knows nothing, as he has never been.

    I can tell instantly the forgeries, because I know the place personally.

    I think Westerners have mind that will believe anything that fits their emotional view though.

    -


    Also he was claiming that someone was impersonating him on the Shamir forum.


    P.S.

    If you look at my profile, it seems someone has been using my name and posting comments on Israel Shamir articles. I don’t know what’s more insulting, that someone would impersonate me or that someone would even think I would post on such articles in the first place.

    To be clear, I almost only post on AK blogs. I have posted a few odd comments on iSteve. To the extent I post anything outside those two blogs it is never on Russia. All Russia-related stuff(including Russian actions in Syria, which doesn’t interest me greatly to begin with) will be posted on AK. So if anyone sees my name on Shamir/Saker/whatever articles, know it is fake. I hope the imposter gets rooted out. I certainly don’t want to get my comment history wiped because of some douchebag using my name.

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.
     

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/armenia-update/?highlight=ip#comment-2299615


    Lol how can the person trolling you, both share your IP address, and also know your email address to log-in to your account, unless they are also using the same computer?

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.

    And how AK was able to determine that? I could not find PP’s comments under Shamir articles. Somebody deleted them? Who? Under what authority?

    It can be nothing. But perhaps PP has reason to feel paranoid about somebody doxxing him or is it gaslighting?

    As far as Israel goes you really do not have that much credibility with your almost always Pollyannish stories. Somebody once called them an affable hasbara, I think. The fact that most of us have never been to Israel does not mean that we can’t form opinions about it and determine which stories seems right and which are not. Your seem to be controlling about Israel as if you wanted to have a monopoly on the narrative. You haven’t seen everything and you haven’t been everywhere and you should assume as every reasonable observer you are not entirely objective either. For instance I found this article about railways and railway stations in Israel where they say that the stations are nor really great and food is horrible. To which you posted some video of somebody being at airport and traveling on train. Airports usually look good and PP did not mention the airport iirc. Did this video contradict anything PP wrote?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    For instance I found this article about railways and railway stations in Israel where they say that the stations are nor really great and food is horrible. To which you posted some video of somebody being at airport and traveling on train. Airports usually look good and PP did not mention the airport iirc. Did this video contradict anything PP wrote?
     
    Did you read your article. He's complaining that the stations (in Israel in general) do not have shade and that food is not good.

    I can't say as I would never go to train station to eat food.

    But the train stations (from the airport and when you get to Tel Aviv) is really modern, and completely opposite of dilapidated. The shock of dilapidation and shabbiness happens when you leave the train station.

    (Especially if you get out at hahagana station, you will find yourself in one of the most the most third-world and shabby area in Asia - but the station itself is not the shabby thing. The shock is a few minutes later when you walk out in that part of town).

    Again it's all basic stuff, which shows if you've been there, or - as in this case - invented a fake story.

    , @Greasy William
    Your usage of the term "Pollyannish" was incorrect. Please be more careful in the future about the adjectives you use when posting on these threads.
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  153. Dmitry says:
    @for-the-record
    he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB),

    How about me, was my visit fake too?

    And considering that you seem to take pride in not having read much if anything about the historical background of the current situation, what gives you the right to pronounce yourself the master of all things related to Israel?

    he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB and for-the-record),

    You are my editors or something?

    And neither have I read for years any history book about Russia. But I can promise you, if someone tells me they can pass through any security checks (had we had such security checks happening multiple times a day) from their hair colour, or that they had some special rapport with publicly ignored minority group such as Ossetians – while on public transport – as ones who had in some Ossetian way also magically recognized the European tourist as a fellow outsider. That they had not been to the country. Probably we should add something more creative about riding bears to tell these people.

    Read More
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  154. @Daniel Chieh
    I'm here so you can see an example of a better person than yourself.

    Stay.

    Read More
    • Agree: iffen
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  155. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.
     
    And how AK was able to determine that? I could not find PP's comments under Shamir articles. Somebody deleted them? Who? Under what authority?

    It can be nothing. But perhaps PP has reason to feel paranoid about somebody doxxing him or is it gaslighting?

    As far as Israel goes you really do not have that much credibility with your almost always Pollyannish stories. Somebody once called them an affable hasbara, I think. The fact that most of us have never been to Israel does not mean that we can't form opinions about it and determine which stories seems right and which are not. Your seem to be controlling about Israel as if you wanted to have a monopoly on the narrative. You haven't seen everything and you haven't been everywhere and you should assume as every reasonable observer you are not entirely objective either. For instance I found this article about railways and railway stations in Israel where they say that the stations are nor really great and food is horrible. To which you posted some video of somebody being at airport and traveling on train. Airports usually look good and PP did not mention the airport iirc. Did this video contradict anything PP wrote?

    For instance I found this article about railways and railway stations in Israel where they say that the stations are nor really great and food is horrible. To which you posted some video of somebody being at airport and traveling on train. Airports usually look good and PP did not mention the airport iirc. Did this video contradict anything PP wrote?

    Did you read your article. He’s complaining that the stations (in Israel in general) do not have shade and that food is not good.

    I can’t say as I would never go to train station to eat food.

    But the train stations (from the airport and when you get to Tel Aviv) is really modern, and completely opposite of dilapidated. The shock of dilapidation and shabbiness happens when you leave the train station.

    (Especially if you get out at hahagana station, you will find yourself in one of the most the most third-world and shabby area in Asia – but the station itself is not the shabby thing. The shock is a few minutes later when you walk out in that part of town).

    Again it’s all basic stuff, which shows if you’ve been there, or – as in this case – invented a fake story.

    Read More
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  156. @for-the-record
    he knows about as much about the subject (Israel) as the rest of you seem to (aside from AaronB),

    How about me, was my visit fake too?

    And considering that you seem to take pride in not having read much if anything about the historical background of the current situation, what gives you the right to pronounce yourself the master of all things related to Israel?

    How about me, was my visit fake too?

    Ignore him. He is obviously hyperemotional about Israel for reasons which are not rational.

    Read More
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  157. @utu

    AK: This has been sorted out. The commend in question was made by somebody who shared your IP, so a case of mistaken identity.
     
    And how AK was able to determine that? I could not find PP's comments under Shamir articles. Somebody deleted them? Who? Under what authority?

    It can be nothing. But perhaps PP has reason to feel paranoid about somebody doxxing him or is it gaslighting?

    As far as Israel goes you really do not have that much credibility with your almost always Pollyannish stories. Somebody once called them an affable hasbara, I think. The fact that most of us have never been to Israel does not mean that we can't form opinions about it and determine which stories seems right and which are not. Your seem to be controlling about Israel as if you wanted to have a monopoly on the narrative. You haven't seen everything and you haven't been everywhere and you should assume as every reasonable observer you are not entirely objective either. For instance I found this article about railways and railway stations in Israel where they say that the stations are nor really great and food is horrible. To which you posted some video of somebody being at airport and traveling on train. Airports usually look good and PP did not mention the airport iirc. Did this video contradict anything PP wrote?

    Your usage of the term “Pollyannish” was incorrect. Please be more careful in the future about the adjectives you use when posting on these threads.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Really?
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  158. @utu
    I suspect he might be not honest about his age. It is possible that it was one little unnecessary lie that he has to keep on or that it was an anti self-doxxing measure of which he said he was concerned of not so long ago. But I have no problems with anything he writes except it is just too good to come from a 20 year old but not impossible. As far as his description of Israel, wherever it comes from, it feels more credible than your usually Pollyannish spin. Anyway I am ready to have more of Polish Perspective's comment coming here.

    Anyway I am ready to have more of Polish Perspective’s comment coming here.

    There is not much to add. I am 20 right now, though that fact will change later this summer. I went to Israel in the fall of 2015, close to Christmas, so I was 18 back then. Perhaps my age played a role, I don’t know. Honestly, I don’t really care. I made a number of social observations and I stand by them.

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  159. utu says:
    @Greasy William
    Your usage of the term "Pollyannish" was incorrect. Please be more careful in the future about the adjectives you use when posting on these threads.

    Really?

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  160. AaronB says:
    @German_reader

    I’m talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live.
     
    No, you're wrong, I do want more. Above all I want vengeance and a harsh punishment for those responsible for the present situation. It's not just about a pleasant life and material comfort, it's about justice.

    Now you’re talking. Anger is a better than apathy. Although anger also must be overcome on the way to spiritual perfection.

    But anger, vengeance, and justice are spiritually healthier than apathy.

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    • Replies: @Bliss

    anger, vengeance, and justice are spiritually healthier than apathy.
     
    Also according to you human sacrificing religions, apostate killing religions, exclusivist religions are all spiritually healthier than secularism. And all kinds of superstitious bullshit is spiritually healthier than Reason. Where did you learn this spirituality?

    Apathy, (as in indifference, disinterest, detachment) towards the world is a necessary condition for release from worldly bondage. Anger and vengeance keep us attached to the worldly drama, how is that spiritually healthier?
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  161. @utu
    There were 25,000 Blacks Germany after WWI. During Nazi regime couple dozens were sent to camps for antisocial behavior. Blacks were not target for being blacks except for sex with Aryans, I think. I think only one died in KL. I had a discussion with German_reader about it but not do not remember all details I dug up. This number of blacks were not a problem and probably not noticeable because the regime was strict and stern. You did not fuck with Nazis. With lax regime and lax immigration laws to keep the numbers of blacks low the numbers will grow. Germany now has about 800,000 blacks. This will happen to Eastern Europe once their economic level and welfare befits become more enticing.

    Obviously it is impossible to have overt laws specifically discriminating blacks and their immigration. What is needed is a creative obstructionism by 'enlightened' administration to implement unspoken policies to keep their numbers as low as possible. Obviously the best would be to have an official and enforceable no immigration, period. But it will never happen. They will have exceptions. Like for Jews in Ukraine. and then for somber else. It is also possible to have extremely strict naturalization laws and strict reunification laws. Stricter than Swiss. SJWs wold complain but they have no legal case.

    Why such a complex plan? Why not simply make them self-deport. I heard this in connection with Mitt Romney (probably the only good idea he ever had) and I like the idea.

    Just harass them and make their lives so utterly miserable on every level of life so that they couldn’t possibly survive and they will leave in the end.

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    • Replies: @utu
    OK. Tell how you and your Romney will go about? Not about illegals which is easy but about the green card holders?

    But when I wrote it I was thinking about Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans. Europeans must strive to not let themselves to see themselves like Americans who see themselves as immigrants who are guilty on top of it. Europeans are not immigrants. They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good. And because misery likes company they will do everything to bring it on Europeans.
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  162. @utu

    This is why I study the Nordic Resistance Movement a lot. They never cucked and they had plenty of opportunities to do so. They are now leading in Sweden as the biggest nationalist group.
     
    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury. They right a way fall into the trap of being those Whites who enslaved Africans and exterminated Indians who also are Americans for racist reasons. Referring to themselves as Europeans will not catch a traction in America which always saw itself as an anti-European or at least superior to Europe civilization. I guess also for Russians it might be harder to find unambiguous and not offensive self-identifcation because all those Russia's citizens from Muslim republics can't be easily dismissed. Sailer's 'invade the world invite the world' applies to Russia even more than to America. Russians must dance around the whiteness and fall back to Christian Orthodoxy which certainly does not suit everybody. One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms. On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury

    They do refer to themselves primarily as Swedish. Sometimes the phrase ‘Nordic race’ is used. However, they are remarkably sanguine about integrating other European ethnicities with the exception of some Balkan types.

    Simon Lindberg, who is the leader of NMR, also openly talks about the white race, though as an ancillary concept and not a primary one to their world view.

    I think your comment gets at a fundamental divide, namely that the US is a mishmash of various white ethnicities and Europe, for the most part, is not. Though this is changing in some Western European countries. 20% of German new-borns are of mixed European parentage. This caused some furore a few years ago as “40% of German newborns have migrant background” and the right-wing was in up arms. Few actually bothered to check the actual data. When you did, you noticed that half of those 40% were inter-Europeans offspring. German_reader is a mix of British and German if I am not mistaken. So this is already increasingly a reality in Europe and groups like NMR are cognisant of that. As more and more sub-Saharan and MENA peoples move into Europe, I suspect we will see greater a strengthening of a Pan-European identity slowly emerge, though for reasons which the EU will not be pleased about.

    One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms.

    This is very true. Catholicism is still a very dominant aspect of what it means to be Polish, much to my chagrin.

    On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.

    The Polish left are actually correct when they point out that Poland has historically been quite multicultural and that today’s Poland is a historical anomaly which was created largely because of actions of Nazi Germany during WWII and then by Stalin as he wanted neat blocs of ethnically-defined countries, and as such encouraged either ethnic cleansing of the remaining Germans or population movements (many Poles from what is today’s Western Ukraine and even parts of Belarus were moved to today’s Poland).

    My thinking on this has changed over the last year. I used to think our history doomed the right-wing’s position in the debate over the long term but now I am not so sure if history matters that much. Some of the Scandinavian countries have been extremely homogeneous for most of their history, yet have embraced mass migration by the 3rd world with gusto, the aforementioned Sweden is a prime example but even Norway is very liberal. By contrast, China has a history of population movements of outsiders yet their current government is amazing on this aspect. We don’t tend to appreciate the diversity of related peoples they had to contend with, just as many non-Europeans do not keep track of all European ethnicities, aside from the big ones.

    I don’t think Ukrainians or Belorussians becoming Polish will present big difficulties as these are brotherly peoples. The bigger problem is if we are going to get increasing numbers of non-white citizens. Right now the problem is small. We naturalised just around 3000 people last year and the vast majority of them were other East Europeans. It takes around between 7 to 10 years to get Polish citizenship if you do not have any ancestry (which quite a few Ukrainians and Belorussians do), depending upon who your spouse is.

    So we have maybe 10-15 years before we will see large(r) numbers of non-whites get Polish citizenship. There are certainly worse positions to be in, but at the same time, we are more bluepilled on race than many other nations in Europe. It’s a race against 25 years of leftist-neoliberal hegemony which has not really been broken by PiS but at best mildly challenged. I for one think that the developments in the West will be key for us. I agree with those who say that the West is more stable than many think and if it just keeps going, Poland will likely drift in this direction sooner or later with increasing speed rather than away from it, as will most of Eastern Europe in general. We’re interconnected, whether we like it or not.

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    • Replies: @utu

    I don’t think Ukrainians or Belorussians becoming Polish will present big difficulties
     
    It depends. Any ethnic minority should be considered as hostile to the majority. In case of U. and B. it is possible that they may get absorbed seamlessly because they share the same external phenotype with Poles and similar religions. OTOH, differences as they get more similar they get disproportionately amplified (narcissism of small differences). So I would be concerned about large minority of Ukrainians in Poland. Ethnic diversity is never good. The only benefit are ethnic restaurants, period. Do you care for Ukrainian food? Is it that different from Polish?

    There is always a strife and extra problems you do not have to deal with in the absence of them. For instance you will have to adjust and PC sanitize your language to purge it from slur words referring to them which otherwise you would be free to use in their absence. They will have escalating demands. It also will depend on developments in Ukraine and Belarus.

    Then there are minorities that can't be absorbed who will forever remain hostile. These are Muslims and Blacks. The latter because of external phenotype difference which can't be overlooked or escaped from. This will always result in a formation of separate ethnic identity which will lead to unending cries about racism. And Muslims have differ cultural code which is completely incompatible and it seems that chances of breaking it are nil. One does not need IQ issue to be invoked at all. There is enough smart enough Africans in Africa but certainly you would not want them either. The talk about IQ is a dead end that might turn into a trap It really comes down to the external phenotype. It is really that simple. We should trust experience and instinct of our grandfathers. The left undermined it and compromised it.
    , @Anarcho-Supremacist
    "Though this is changing in some Western European countries. 20% of German new-borns are of mixed European parentage. This caused some furore a few years ago as “40% of German newborns have migrant background” and the right-wing was in up arms. Few actually bothered to check the actual data. When you did, you noticed that half of those 40% were inter-Europeans offspring. German_reader is a mix of British and German if I am not mistaken. So this is already increasingly a reality in Europe and groups like NMR are cognisant of that. As more and more sub-Saharan and MENA peoples move into Europe, I suspect we will see greater a strengthening of a Pan-European identity slowly emerge, though for reasons which the EU will not be pleased about."

    This may be one of the few things I agree with Richard Spencer on. He is not very clear on it(just like he is not on most subjects) but I believe the reason he is against Brexit is because he thinks May is going to replace all if the White immigrants from the rest of Europe with non whites from the "commonwealth". I honestly believe the reason Blair increased non European immigration to the UK was because he was afraid of eastern EU immigration making the UK "More White".
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  163. @German_reader

    I’m talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live.
     
    No, you're wrong, I do want more. Above all I want vengeance and a harsh punishment for those responsible for the present situation. It's not just about a pleasant life and material comfort, it's about justice.

    Exactly. I don’t want a better life for myself. I want a worse life for the Left.

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  164. utu says:
    @Hyperborean
    Why such a complex plan? Why not simply make them self-deport. I heard this in connection with Mitt Romney (probably the only good idea he ever had) and I like the idea.

    Just harass them and make their lives so utterly miserable on every level of life so that they couldn't possibly survive and they will leave in the end.

    OK. Tell how you and your Romney will go about? Not about illegals which is easy but about the green card holders?

    But when I wrote it I was thinking about Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans. Europeans must strive to not let themselves to see themselves like Americans who see themselves as immigrants who are guilty on top of it. Europeans are not immigrants. They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good. And because misery likes company they will do everything to bring it on Europeans.

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    • Replies: @Bliss

    Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans......... They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good.
     
    Europe owns the notoriety of waging some of the most barbaric wars in the history of mankind on its own soil: WWII, 30 Years War, Albigensian Crusade etc. It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    Europeans are also notorious the world over for the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the burning alive of free-thinking men and women in public squares etc
    , @Hyperborean
    To start with:

    Impose de facto martial law in foreign-dominated ghettos.

    Forbid them from speaking their languages in public and at school.

    Crack down harshly on any 'anti-racist' protest and in general forbid any expression of 'pride' or implicit 'black culture' in the public sphere.

    Impose an unofficial 'tax' on any 'black-style' establishment or store.

    Encourage police not to investigate any murders or robberies commited against blacks.

    Establish harsh sentencing for habitual criminals and swindlers.

    Encourage banks not to allow them to establish bank accounts or loan money from banks.

    Encourage residents not to sell or rent out their houses to them.

    Allow the media to honestly discuss the problems they cause.

    Etc.

    If they still stay perhaps carry out bombing campaigns and confiscations of property?

    Admittedly some of this would perhaps require formal laws but most of it would be either indirect laws or unofficial rules.
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  165. Bliss says:

    But the Right’s human capital problem makes it very hard to attract the high IQ, which results in Swine leaders, which lowers the prestige associated with being on the Right, exacerbating the human capital problem even further, etc.

    The Right is inferior not just in intelligence but also in character and morality.

    Just look at the ugly hatreds of their demonic circle jerks. They revel in what’s bad and recoil from what’s good. They identify their enemies as do-gooders, social justice warriors, egalitarians etc. Genocide is a viable option to these warriors of hate. They proudly fly the flags of Nazi Germany and the Confederacy. Inspired by ISIS they dream of “White Sharia”.

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    • Replies: @German_reader

    They proudly fly the flags of Nazi Germany and the Confederacy.
     
    lol, I'm sure that's exactly what every right-winger does, especially in Eastern Europe.
    And left-wingers of course are completely non-violent and don't hate anybody at all.
    Seriously, spare us this nonsense.
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  166. @Bliss

    But the Right’s human capital problem makes it very hard to attract the high IQ, which results in Swine leaders, which lowers the prestige associated with being on the Right, exacerbating the human capital problem even further, etc.
     
    The Right is inferior not just in intelligence but also in character and morality.

    Just look at the ugly hatreds of their demonic circle jerks. They revel in what’s bad and recoil from what’s good. They identify their enemies as do-gooders, social justice warriors, egalitarians etc. Genocide is a viable option to these warriors of hate. They proudly fly the flags of Nazi Germany and the Confederacy. Inspired by ISIS they dream of “White Sharia”.

    They proudly fly the flags of Nazi Germany and the Confederacy.

    lol, I’m sure that’s exactly what every right-winger does, especially in Eastern Europe.
    And left-wingers of course are completely non-violent and don’t hate anybody at all.
    Seriously, spare us this nonsense.

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    • Replies: @Bliss
    Anyone can read the posts here and see for themselves that what I wrote pretty much defines the right. Heck, even many of the Slavs here, who should know better, talk like neo-nazis.
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  167. Bliss says:
    @utu
    OK. Tell how you and your Romney will go about? Not about illegals which is easy but about the green card holders?

    But when I wrote it I was thinking about Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans. Europeans must strive to not let themselves to see themselves like Americans who see themselves as immigrants who are guilty on top of it. Europeans are not immigrants. They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good. And because misery likes company they will do everything to bring it on Europeans.

    Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans……… They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good.

    Europe owns the notoriety of waging some of the most barbaric wars in the history of mankind on its own soil: WWII, 30 Years War, Albigensian Crusade etc. It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    Europeans are also notorious the world over for the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the burning alive of free-thinking men and women in public squares etc

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    • Replies: @German_reader

    It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.
     
    There was a huge humanitarian campaign waged by white Westerners against Leopold's Free State and the abuses (which were mostly carried out by native soldiers anyway) were mostly ended.
    Belgian colonial rule after that may have had flaws, but did create significant infrastructure to the benefit of the natives. Congo's present deplorable state is mostly the fault of the Congolese themselves.
    Btw, what is your own ethnicity? You seem rather strident in your very one-sided view of the evil white man, I wonder about the motivation for that.
    , @Hyperborean
    Because little African noble savages with their little huts and little goats have always lived in peace and harmony with nature.

    The Second Congo War (also known as the Great War of Africa or the Great African War, and sometimes referred to as the African World War) began in August 1998 in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, little more than a year after the First Congo War, and involved some of the same issues. The war officially ended in July 2003, when the Transitional Government of the Democratic Republic of the Congo took power. Although a peace agreement was signed in 2002, violence continued in many regions of the country, especially in the east. Hostilities have continued since the ongoing Lord's Resistance Army insurgency, and the Kivu and Ituri conflicts.

    Ultimately, nine African countries and around twenty five armed groups became involved in the war. By 2008, the war and its aftermath had caused 5.4 million deaths, principally through disease and starvation, making the Second Congo War the deadliest conflict worldwide since World War II. Another 2 million were displaced from their homes or sought asylum in neighbouring countries.

     

    And of course little Africans have never engaged in persecution of people due to superstition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_accusations_against_children_in_Africa

    Nor have they ever committed actrocities: http://m.dw.com/en/aid-groups-urge-action-to-stop-atrocities-by-the-lords-resistance-army/a-6352056
    , @utu

    Europe owns the notoriety of waging some of the most barbaric wars in the history of mankind on its own soil: WWII, 30 Years War, Albigensian Crusade etc. It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.
     
    Unlike you, we Europeans wrote down our history and we know it. You otoh have no history that's why you engage in an infantile fantasy of appropriating Ancient Egyptian history and constructing some imaginary Wakandas. You do not know what kind of senseless warfare and what kind of atrocities were going on in Africa that were perpetrated by your ancestors who you do not know. Nobody knows because your ancestors did not develop civilization that could preserve its history and memory. Your g...g-father probably was torturing enemies before killing them and eating them or selling them for color beads to the slavers. Are you feeling bad about it? Did you atone for? Obviously you do not have to at least by our cultural standards because nobody is responsible for their ancestors. We understand the law of causality. It goes in only one direction. You can't reverse it. But at least you could reflect and ponder on it if you have rational mind. If you do not you will have to follow your heart. And what is in your heart? Murder is in your heart. It is understandable. The unreformable losers have murder in their hearts. You want it to be your destiny? Then you will have to kill us. You can hope to be like Toussaint Louverture but most likely you will end up like Nat Turner. The hate will destroy you. You do not hate us because we do hate you. Our sin is actually worse. We are indifferent. Nothing hurts like indifference. But if you will keep it up we will begin to hate you and act on it in self defense. We are not responsible for you. You are not our children. We are not your keeper. You have a free will and you can join us as a human being. It is up to you.
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  168. Bliss says:
    @German_reader

    They proudly fly the flags of Nazi Germany and the Confederacy.
     
    lol, I'm sure that's exactly what every right-winger does, especially in Eastern Europe.
    And left-wingers of course are completely non-violent and don't hate anybody at all.
    Seriously, spare us this nonsense.

    Anyone can read the posts here and see for themselves that what I wrote pretty much defines the right. Heck, even many of the Slavs here, who should know better, talk like neo-nazis.

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  169. @Bliss

    Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans......... They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good.
     
    Europe owns the notoriety of waging some of the most barbaric wars in the history of mankind on its own soil: WWII, 30 Years War, Albigensian Crusade etc. It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    Europeans are also notorious the world over for the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the burning alive of free-thinking men and women in public squares etc

    It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    There was a huge humanitarian campaign waged by white Westerners against Leopold’s Free State and the abuses (which were mostly carried out by native soldiers anyway) were mostly ended.
    Belgian colonial rule after that may have had flaws, but did create significant infrastructure to the benefit of the natives. Congo’s present deplorable state is mostly the fault of the Congolese themselves.
    Btw, what is your own ethnicity? You seem rather strident in your very one-sided view of the evil white man, I wonder about the motivation for that.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I think Bliss is an African American woman. She’s nice, but an unironic we wuz kangz believer. Maybe she will tell.
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  170. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury
     
    They do refer to themselves primarily as Swedish. Sometimes the phrase 'Nordic race' is used. However, they are remarkably sanguine about integrating other European ethnicities with the exception of some Balkan types.

    Simon Lindberg, who is the leader of NMR, also openly talks about the white race, though as an ancillary concept and not a primary one to their world view.

    I think your comment gets at a fundamental divide, namely that the US is a mishmash of various white ethnicities and Europe, for the most part, is not. Though this is changing in some Western European countries. 20% of German new-borns are of mixed European parentage. This caused some furore a few years ago as "40% of German newborns have migrant background" and the right-wing was in up arms. Few actually bothered to check the actual data. When you did, you noticed that half of those 40% were inter-Europeans offspring. German_reader is a mix of British and German if I am not mistaken. So this is already increasingly a reality in Europe and groups like NMR are cognisant of that. As more and more sub-Saharan and MENA peoples move into Europe, I suspect we will see greater a strengthening of a Pan-European identity slowly emerge, though for reasons which the EU will not be pleased about.


    One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms.
     
    This is very true. Catholicism is still a very dominant aspect of what it means to be Polish, much to my chagrin.

    On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.
     
    The Polish left are actually correct when they point out that Poland has historically been quite multicultural and that today's Poland is a historical anomaly which was created largely because of actions of Nazi Germany during WWII and then by Stalin as he wanted neat blocs of ethnically-defined countries, and as such encouraged either ethnic cleansing of the remaining Germans or population movements (many Poles from what is today's Western Ukraine and even parts of Belarus were moved to today's Poland).

    My thinking on this has changed over the last year. I used to think our history doomed the right-wing's position in the debate over the long term but now I am not so sure if history matters that much. Some of the Scandinavian countries have been extremely homogeneous for most of their history, yet have embraced mass migration by the 3rd world with gusto, the aforementioned Sweden is a prime example but even Norway is very liberal. By contrast, China has a history of population movements of outsiders yet their current government is amazing on this aspect. We don't tend to appreciate the diversity of related peoples they had to contend with, just as many non-Europeans do not keep track of all European ethnicities, aside from the big ones.

    I don't think Ukrainians or Belorussians becoming Polish will present big difficulties as these are brotherly peoples. The bigger problem is if we are going to get increasing numbers of non-white citizens. Right now the problem is small. We naturalised just around 3000 people last year and the vast majority of them were other East Europeans. It takes around between 7 to 10 years to get Polish citizenship if you do not have any ancestry (which quite a few Ukrainians and Belorussians do), depending upon who your spouse is.

    So we have maybe 10-15 years before we will see large(r) numbers of non-whites get Polish citizenship. There are certainly worse positions to be in, but at the same time, we are more bluepilled on race than many other nations in Europe. It's a race against 25 years of leftist-neoliberal hegemony which has not really been broken by PiS but at best mildly challenged. I for one think that the developments in the West will be key for us. I agree with those who say that the West is more stable than many think and if it just keeps going, Poland will likely drift in this direction sooner or later with increasing speed rather than away from it, as will most of Eastern Europe in general. We're interconnected, whether we like it or not.

    I don’t think Ukrainians or Belorussians becoming Polish will present big difficulties

    It depends. Any ethnic minority should be considered as hostile to the majority. In case of U. and B. it is possible that they may get absorbed seamlessly because they share the same external phenotype with Poles and similar religions. OTOH, differences as they get more similar they get disproportionately amplified (narcissism of small differences). So I would be concerned about large minority of Ukrainians in Poland. Ethnic diversity is never good. The only benefit are ethnic restaurants, period. Do you care for Ukrainian food? Is it that different from Polish?

    There is always a strife and extra problems you do not have to deal with in the absence of them. For instance you will have to adjust and PC sanitize your language to purge it from slur words referring to them which otherwise you would be free to use in their absence. They will have escalating demands. It also will depend on developments in Ukraine and Belarus.

    Then there are minorities that can’t be absorbed who will forever remain hostile. These are Muslims and Blacks. The latter because of external phenotype difference which can’t be overlooked or escaped from. This will always result in a formation of separate ethnic identity which will lead to unending cries about racism. And Muslims have differ cultural code which is completely incompatible and it seems that chances of breaking it are nil. One does not need IQ issue to be invoked at all. There is enough smart enough Africans in Africa but certainly you would not want them either. The talk about IQ is a dead end that might turn into a trap It really comes down to the external phenotype. It is really that simple. We should trust experience and instinct of our grandfathers. The left undermined it and compromised it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Having the vague knowledge that your ancestors were of a different ethnicity will make you more susceptible to open borders ideas. Even if the difference was small.
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  171. If you guys really want to see the human capital problem see here: http://www.unz.com/article/colonization-by-indian-leftists-the-downside-of-merit-based-immigration

    Notice how I am repeatedly accused of being…Indian.

    ?????!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jayce
    Embrace it! Now you have a chance to fight alongside Anon in the great Dharmic-Pagan vs Abrahamic war we've been hearing so much about.
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  172. @Bliss

    Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans......... They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good.
     
    Europe owns the notoriety of waging some of the most barbaric wars in the history of mankind on its own soil: WWII, 30 Years War, Albigensian Crusade etc. It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    Europeans are also notorious the world over for the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the burning alive of free-thinking men and women in public squares etc

    Because little African noble savages with their little huts and little goats have always lived in peace and harmony with nature.

    The Second Congo War (also known as the Great War of Africa or the Great African War, and sometimes referred to as the African World War) began in August 1998 in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, little more than a year after the First Congo War, and involved some of the same issues. The war officially ended in July 2003, when the Transitional Government of the Democratic Republic of the Congo took power. Although a peace agreement was signed in 2002, violence continued in many regions of the country, especially in the east. Hostilities have continued since the ongoing Lord’s Resistance Army insurgency, and the Kivu and Ituri conflicts.

    Ultimately, nine African countries and around twenty five armed groups became involved in the war. By 2008, the war and its aftermath had caused 5.4 million deaths, principally through disease and starvation, making the Second Congo War the deadliest conflict worldwide since World War II. Another 2 million were displaced from their homes or sought asylum in neighbouring countries.

    And of course little Africans have never engaged in persecution of people due to superstition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_accusations_against_children_in_Africa

    Nor have they ever committed actrocities: http://m.dw.com/en/aid-groups-urge-action-to-stop-atrocities-by-the-lords-resistance-army/a-6352056

    Read More
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  173. Bliss says:
    @AaronB
    Now you're talking. Anger is a better than apathy. Although anger also must be overcome on the way to spiritual perfection.

    But anger, vengeance, and justice are spiritually healthier than apathy.

    anger, vengeance, and justice are spiritually healthier than apathy.

    Also according to you human sacrificing religions, apostate killing religions, exclusivist religions are all spiritually healthier than secularism. And all kinds of superstitious bullshit is spiritually healthier than Reason. Where did you learn this spirituality?

    Apathy, (as in indifference, disinterest, detachment) towards the world is a necessary condition for release from worldly bondage. Anger and vengeance keep us attached to the worldly drama, how is that spiritually healthier?

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    You are correct. Indifference to worldly concerns is the essence of spirituality. But a passionate attachment to the spiritual realm is the opposite of that.

    Anger, vengeance, and justice are by no means ideals - but it shows a capacity for dissatisfaction with the world as it is. It is the first step. Of course ultimately you must move beyond these things. But its a journey. And German reader has far to travel. Taking the first step is good.

    As for Reason, I'm not against it. That's simplistic. We just can't settle down in it as all there is.
    , @AaronB
    You're thinking very "essentialistically". Anger is bad essentially.

    Anger is obviously not the spiritual ideal. But it has its place in the stages of the path.

    Research the Buddhist concept of "skill in means".
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  174. Jayce says:
    @Thorfinnsson
    If you guys really want to see the human capital problem see here: http://www.unz.com/article/colonization-by-indian-leftists-the-downside-of-merit-based-immigration

    Notice how I am repeatedly accused of being...Indian.

    ?????!

    Embrace it! Now you have a chance to fight alongside Anon in the great Dharmic-Pagan vs Abrahamic war we’ve been hearing so much about.

    Read More
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  175. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    anger, vengeance, and justice are spiritually healthier than apathy.
     
    Also according to you human sacrificing religions, apostate killing religions, exclusivist religions are all spiritually healthier than secularism. And all kinds of superstitious bullshit is spiritually healthier than Reason. Where did you learn this spirituality?

    Apathy, (as in indifference, disinterest, detachment) towards the world is a necessary condition for release from worldly bondage. Anger and vengeance keep us attached to the worldly drama, how is that spiritually healthier?

    You are correct. Indifference to worldly concerns is the essence of spirituality. But a passionate attachment to the spiritual realm is the opposite of that.

    Anger, vengeance, and justice are by no means ideals – but it shows a capacity for dissatisfaction with the world as it is. It is the first step. Of course ultimately you must move beyond these things. But its a journey. And German reader has far to travel. Taking the first step is good.

    As for Reason, I’m not against it. That’s simplistic. We just can’t settle down in it as all there is.

    Read More
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  176. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    anger, vengeance, and justice are spiritually healthier than apathy.
     
    Also according to you human sacrificing religions, apostate killing religions, exclusivist religions are all spiritually healthier than secularism. And all kinds of superstitious bullshit is spiritually healthier than Reason. Where did you learn this spirituality?

    Apathy, (as in indifference, disinterest, detachment) towards the world is a necessary condition for release from worldly bondage. Anger and vengeance keep us attached to the worldly drama, how is that spiritually healthier?

    You’re thinking very “essentialistically”. Anger is bad essentially.

    Anger is obviously not the spiritual ideal. But it has its place in the stages of the path.

    Research the Buddhist concept of “skill in means”.

    Read More
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  177. utu says:
    @Bliss

    Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans......... They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good.
     
    Europe owns the notoriety of waging some of the most barbaric wars in the history of mankind on its own soil: WWII, 30 Years War, Albigensian Crusade etc. It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    Europeans are also notorious the world over for the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the burning alive of free-thinking men and women in public squares etc

    Europe owns the notoriety of waging some of the most barbaric wars in the history of mankind on its own soil: WWII, 30 Years War, Albigensian Crusade etc. It is infamous for its brutal, rapacious behavior in Africa, and for continuing to glorify the worst evil doers by building monuments and naming streets after them. Example: King Leopld II in the very capital of the EU.

    Unlike you, we Europeans wrote down our history and we know it. You otoh have no history that’s why you engage in an infantile fantasy of appropriating Ancient Egyptian history and constructing some imaginary Wakandas. You do not know what kind of senseless warfare and what kind of atrocities were going on in Africa that were perpetrated by your ancestors who you do not know. Nobody knows because your ancestors did not develop civilization that could preserve its history and memory. Your g…g-father probably was torturing enemies before killing them and eating them or selling them for color beads to the slavers. Are you feeling bad about it? Did you atone for? Obviously you do not have to at least by our cultural standards because nobody is responsible for their ancestors. We understand the law of causality. It goes in only one direction. You can’t reverse it. But at least you could reflect and ponder on it if you have rational mind. If you do not you will have to follow your heart. And what is in your heart? Murder is in your heart. It is understandable. The unreformable losers have murder in their hearts. You want it to be your destiny? Then you will have to kill us. You can hope to be like Toussaint Louverture but most likely you will end up like Nat Turner. The hate will destroy you. You do not hate us because we do hate you. Our sin is actually worse. We are indifferent. Nothing hurts like indifference. But if you will keep it up we will begin to hate you and act on it in self defense. We are not responsible for you. You are not our children. We are not your keeper. You have a free will and you can join us as a human being. It is up to you.

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    Well said.

    You have a free will and you can join us as a human being. It is up to you.

     

    Clarification: Join us conceptually, while residing on another continent.
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  178. Bliss says:
    @AaronB
    The people with guns today are often very idealistic and religious. I'm sure they'll be a force to be reckoned with. I'm not talking about those people when I talk about people with no vision.

    I'm talking about people like German reader who wants nothing more than a pleasant place to live. I don't think such people are likely to influence history. I'm sure he'd agree and say why should he want to. He's right.

    I'm just pointing out that the people who supplant the Left will want more out of life than just a nice place to live. They may well be your men with guns.

    The people with guns today are often very idealistic and religious. I’m sure they’ll be a force to be reckoned with. I’m not talking about those people when I talk about people with no vision.

    So all your talk about Love and Spirituality was a lie, just as I suspected. What you really want to see is not the Truth but Holy Warriors like the Jihadis and Crusaders who will crush the votaries of Rationalism, Secularism and Egalitarianism and take the West back to the Dark Ages. Right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    You have to distinguish between what I want and my diagnosis of a situation.

    I wouldn't want the Nazis to win, but I do diagnose them as having a motivating vision and thus a force to be reckoned with.

    I do not like the Left, but it's quite possible something worse will supplant it if it can provide a motivating vision even if its very corrupt.

    It's because good people surrender idealism to the bad that all sorts of corrupt idealism arise, like Nazism and the Left.
    , @Sean
    Love is the other side of the same coin as hate. If you love your family you set up a barrier against non relatives. Rationalism-Secularism-Egalitarianism is similar to a religion inasmuch unrelated people are bound together over-against the others (who in self defence are also bound in common fate group by beliefs that enemies do not share). Race straddles those barriers of belief, and because most wars are levied on nearby countries of the same race, governments hate racism. Doesn't mean racism is true though.
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  179. @utu
    OK. Tell how you and your Romney will go about? Not about illegals which is easy but about the green card holders?

    But when I wrote it I was thinking about Europeans who do not have (1) Statue of Liberty and (2) Slavery in their past and 14% black population as result of it (3) Indian extermination in their past. Europeans are in much better shape than Americans. Europeans must strive to not let themselves to see themselves like Americans who see themselves as immigrants who are guilty on top of it. Europeans are not immigrants. They are on their own soil which they did not get by exterminating Indians and did not conquer with slaves Brough from Africa. Europeans still have time and chance. American, imho, are fucked for good. And because misery likes company they will do everything to bring it on Europeans.

    To start with:

    Impose de facto martial law in foreign-dominated ghettos.

    Forbid them from speaking their languages in public and at school.

    Crack down harshly on any ‘anti-racist’ protest and in general forbid any expression of ‘pride’ or implicit ‘black culture’ in the public sphere.

    Impose an unofficial ‘tax’ on any ‘black-style’ establishment or store.

    Encourage police not to investigate any murders or robberies commited against blacks.

    Establish harsh sentencing for habitual criminals and swindlers.

    Encourage banks not to allow them to establish bank accounts or loan money from banks.

    Encourage residents not to sell or rent out their houses to them.

    Allow the media to honestly discuss the problems they cause.

    Etc.

    If they still stay perhaps carry out bombing campaigns and confiscations of property?

    Admittedly some of this would perhaps require formal laws but most of it would be either indirect laws or unofficial rules.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    Impose de facto martial law
     
    If it came to it I would have you shot first. I do not think your skills would be needed.
    , @German_reader
    Those aren't very realistic proposals though. Are you talking about the US? I really don't see how they could do that to blacks with roots going back centuries in the country and with nowhere else to go, when they can't even deport recent illegal immigrants. It actually could be seen as excessively cruel with some reason.
    , @songbird
    Just as a thought experiment, I do like to think of Wakanda-propaganda:

    Communication blackout with Africa. Cut welfare to blacks down to nothing. Get rid of affirmative action. Put just 10% of what was spent on welfare into Wakanda propaganda. Make blockbuster movies starring only blacks set only in Wakanda. TV shows starring only blacks set only in Wakanda. They are all heroes - it is a technoparadise, don't skimp of the special effects or budget - we've got billions and billions to spend - and it is just a fraction of what we would save.

    Put Wakanda on maps and in school textbooks of geography. Make the movies and TV shows set in Wakanda free. Ban diversity casting, and put blacks only in Wakanda stuff, but make plenty of it. Free one-way plane tickets to Wakanda, Africa, and give a $10,000 stipend per person. Sounds like a lot? It is nothing compared to the savings!
    , @Pericles
    It all seems too passive-aggressive though. Just deport them all, starting now. This crazy do-gooder project has abjectly failed, time to shut it down.

    (Give the rapists, murderers and other criminal scum helicopter rides.)
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  180. utu says:
    @Hyperborean
    To start with:

    Impose de facto martial law in foreign-dominated ghettos.

    Forbid them from speaking their languages in public and at school.

    Crack down harshly on any 'anti-racist' protest and in general forbid any expression of 'pride' or implicit 'black culture' in the public sphere.

    Impose an unofficial 'tax' on any 'black-style' establishment or store.

    Encourage police not to investigate any murders or robberies commited against blacks.

    Establish harsh sentencing for habitual criminals and swindlers.

    Encourage banks not to allow them to establish bank accounts or loan money from banks.

    Encourage residents not to sell or rent out their houses to them.

    Allow the media to honestly discuss the problems they cause.

    Etc.

    If they still stay perhaps carry out bombing campaigns and confiscations of property?

    Admittedly some of this would perhaps require formal laws but most of it would be either indirect laws or unofficial rules.

    Impose de facto martial law

    If it came to it I would have you shot first. I do not think your skills would be needed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Why this hostility?
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  181. @utu

    Impose de facto martial law
     
    If it came to it I would have you shot first. I do not think your skills would be needed.

    Why this hostility?

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    • Replies: @utu
    Because I thought your were sincere and thoughtful. OK, you would not be shot. Just assigned to peeling potatoes in the kitchen for the internees.
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  182. @Hyperborean
    To start with:

    Impose de facto martial law in foreign-dominated ghettos.

    Forbid them from speaking their languages in public and at school.

    Crack down harshly on any 'anti-racist' protest and in general forbid any expression of 'pride' or implicit 'black culture' in the public sphere.

    Impose an unofficial 'tax' on any 'black-style' establishment or store.

    Encourage police not to investigate any murders or robberies commited against blacks.

    Establish harsh sentencing for habitual criminals and swindlers.

    Encourage banks not to allow them to establish bank accounts or loan money from banks.

    Encourage residents not to sell or rent out their houses to them.

    Allow the media to honestly discuss the problems they cause.

    Etc.

    If they still stay perhaps carry out bombing campaigns and confiscations of property?

    Admittedly some of this would perhaps require formal laws but most of it would be either indirect laws or unofficial rules.

    Those aren’t very realistic proposals though. Are you talking about the US? I really don’t see how they could do that to blacks with roots going back centuries in the country and with nowhere else to go, when they can’t even deport recent illegal immigrants. It actually could be seen as excessively cruel with some reason.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    I was talking about Europe, since the conversation was about blacks in NS-Germany and modern Germany.

    For the US I would just give blacks a part of the South as an autonomous self-determination state.

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  183. @German_reader
    Those aren't very realistic proposals though. Are you talking about the US? I really don't see how they could do that to blacks with roots going back centuries in the country and with nowhere else to go, when they can't even deport recent illegal immigrants. It actually could be seen as excessively cruel with some reason.

    I was talking about Europe, since the conversation was about blacks in NS-Germany and modern Germany.

    For the US I would just give blacks a part of the South as an autonomous self-determination state.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    I was talking about Europe
     
    I don't find it very realistic for Europe either tbh, too draconian and excessive.
    I'd propose the following steps (unfortunately also very unlikely to be implemented):
    - for Germany: complete abolition of the right to asylum as currently guaranteed in the Basic law. Complete abolition of welfare payments to people who have entered Germany illegally.
    - Africans taken up in the Mediterranean won't be brought to Europe, but immediately taken back to North Africa, where they'll get food and sufficient money for traveling back to their home countries. Ships of people traffickers will be destroyed.
    - NGOs facilitating illegal immigration will be prohibited, their assets seized, and anyone found guilty of aiding illegal immigration will be sentenced to at least 5 years in prison.
    - Treaties with North African states (financial subsidies, training for their border forces) so they'll stop immigrants at their own borders.
    - African states that don't cooperate in taking back their own citizens won't receive development aid and will have economic warfare by all means waged against them, whereas cooperation will earn support. Development aid will also be made conditional on promoting women's rights, women's education and feminism (goal of that is of course to bring the birth rates down).
    - Deportation drives against illegal immigrants. Zero tolerance policies against petty crime (e.g. ALL forms of drug dealing, even marihuana).
    - Make it impossible for migrants to send remittances back home (close down all those Western Union offices or at least strictly monitor/restrict transactions).

    I think those measures wouldn't even be that brutal and would do a lot to solve the problem.
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  184. @Polish Perspective
    I was in Israel a few years ago. Tel Aviv, Jerusalem as well as the occupied territories. I was going in thinking that Tel Aviv was going to the most impressive city. That delusion got crushed already at the airport. For a country supposedly close to France in nominal GDP per capita, I was amazed how depilated the airport train station was. Even Poland had cleaner/more modern stations, to say nothing of Scandinavia which was like a different galaxy. The station in Tel Aviv we arrived at was not much better. The streets were quite filthy and the buildings looked horrendous for the most part. There were a few Bauhaus pearls but they really were standouts.

    Jerusalem, contrary to my expectations, was actually much nice. It was far cleaner, for one, which I didn't understand. All the Israelis in Tel Aviv insisted that only religious crazies and brutes lived there. Maybe so, but they were certainly able to keep a cleaner city, including the public transportation system (Egged, if I remember correctly). Going into the ultra-Orthodox neighbourhoods was interesting. I had read that apparently some young 7 year old girl had been spat at for dressing "immodestly" and I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt. I didn't get stared at, nor did anyone try to correct me in any way.

    The pushiness and the filthy squalor of Tel Aviv was replaced by a polite orderliness. You could see the poverty in these Haredi neighbourhoods, but you could also see the community spirit. There were no drunks, no bums. The kids (and there were huge amounts of them) were all playing in the streets. I was surprised by the high number of women which worked in corner shops and the like. Apparently, I later found out, Haredi women work in greater numbers than men since the men focus a great deal on learning the Torah. Overall, it was easy to see there and then why this little group had achieved great things later on, the habits formed in that small enclave seemed to me to be very healthy and positive. Of course, once they shed their religious upbrining and get into communism and similar things, our judgement must change.

    The visit to the territories were similarly enlightening. To say that Palestinians live in a cage, is to glorify cages. I visited Hebron. The settlers had scrawled pushed them into narrow alleys down in the valley, which allowed them to stone them(!) from above whenever they felt like it and they often did. We had some Jewish visitors from the US in our group and some of the older women asked me to send me all my pictures to them to their email. Apparently she wanted to show her indifferent family the sheer brutalisation that Israel was meting out. I doubt she got far. We also saw the wall, and how Israel had systematically built up a network of watch towers dissecting the landscape in order to cut off Palestinian villages from each other. It was a very clever system, but at the same time a very evil one. It wasn't hard to see how it was next to impossible to do a real rebellion even if you were clever. A substantial part of the entire state apparatus was dedicated to this objective and the only real way to achieve some form of pressure is to activate the outside world, but as we've seen with Trump, the Israelis basically control the US foreign policy in MENA, especially with regards to this conflict.

    Finally, speaking of Israeli architecture, here's another "masterpiece":

    https://i.imgur.com/bhNUnU9.jpg

    This is an actual building in Ramat Gan, which is not even that impoverished. Notice the buildings in the background. Israel might have nice weather, but the many towns look like something ripped out of the Balkans in large sections. No wonder they prize their Bauhaus architectural legacy (which wasn't nearly as common as I thought it would). Overall, for a country praised as an amazing pearl of the Middle East, I frankly found Czechia to be far more impressive. Even smaller cities like Brno have no equivalent in Israel. I'd take Krakow or even Gdansk over Tel Aviv any day. Give it 15 years, and you'll start seeing large numbers of Jews in Israel claiming, on the flimsiest of pretentions, to be Polish or Czech or Hungarian. World Jewry will add sufficient pressure to make sure there are no rejections and our 'based' governments will fold.

    One final observation. For all the talk of intra-Jewish unity, there is a clear racist hierarchy. I'm a tall, blond man with blue eyes. I saw security guards with assault rifles standing outside even normal supermarkets and they often stopped incomers (even Jews with yarmulkes) but I was never stopped. I did note that the vast majority of people who were stopped were darker in skin, including women. I certainly didn't try to LARP as a Jew and never pretended to be one either when asked.

    When I was at the airport, I was waved through with almost no questions asked. Tel Aviv airport is otherwise famous for racial profiling non-white citizens of Western countries (the assumption is that they are pro-Palestinian by default) by asking a ton of questions. Sometimes people get shoved into siderooms and interrogated for hours on the flimsiest of suspicions. Israelis also had a bad sense of time management and when I asked about it, they were blunt about their "Mediterranean" mentality. They apparently thought I was German so they would often say "this isn't Germany" with a wry smile. For all the talk off Jewish unity, there is still very much a racial hierarchy and I as a non-Jew got treated better than Mizrahi (Arab) Jews to speak nothing of Ethiopian Jews who were often ignored in public in a very visible way. I happened to like the Ethiopians the most, they were very friendly and open, probably because they as outsiders could relate to another. For a brief moment, I probably understood what it meant to be a disapora Jew. Maybe it's time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)

    “Maybe it’s time for me to move to Israel and shill for open borders and engage in black radical politics :)”

    With all of the “Black Hebrew Israelites” that may be easier then you think.

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  185. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    The people with guns today are often very idealistic and religious. I’m sure they’ll be a force to be reckoned with. I’m not talking about those people when I talk about people with no vision.
     
    So all your talk about Love and Spirituality was a lie, just as I suspected. What you really want to see is not the Truth but Holy Warriors like the Jihadis and Crusaders who will crush the votaries of Rationalism, Secularism and Egalitarianism and take the West back to the Dark Ages. Right?

    You have to distinguish between what I want and my diagnosis of a situation.

    I wouldn’t want the Nazis to win, but I do diagnose them as having a motivating vision and thus a force to be reckoned with.

    I do not like the Left, but it’s quite possible something worse will supplant it if it can provide a motivating vision even if its very corrupt.

    It’s because good people surrender idealism to the bad that all sorts of corrupt idealism arise, like Nazism and the Left.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    What's interesting is Bliss's Afrocentric view of history combined with a very European and Western moral outlook.
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  186. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean
    To start with:

    Impose de facto martial law in foreign-dominated ghettos.

    Forbid them from speaking their languages in public and at school.

    Crack down harshly on any 'anti-racist' protest and in general forbid any expression of 'pride' or implicit 'black culture' in the public sphere.

    Impose an unofficial 'tax' on any 'black-style' establishment or store.

    Encourage police not to investigate any murders or robberies commited against blacks.

    Establish harsh sentencing for habitual criminals and swindlers.

    Encourage banks not to allow them to establish bank accounts or loan money from banks.

    Encourage residents not to sell or rent out their houses to them.

    Allow the media to honestly discuss the problems they cause.

    Etc.

    If they still stay perhaps carry out bombing campaigns and confiscations of property?

    Admittedly some of this would perhaps require formal laws but most of it would be either indirect laws or unofficial rules.

    Just as a thought experiment, I do like to think of Wakanda-propaganda:

    Communication blackout with Africa. Cut welfare to blacks down to nothing. Get rid of affirmative action. Put just 10% of what was spent on welfare into Wakanda propaganda. Make blockbuster movies starring only blacks set only in Wakanda. TV shows starring only blacks set only in Wakanda. They are all heroes – it is a technoparadise, don’t skimp of the special effects or budget – we’ve got billions and billions to spend – and it is just a fraction of what we would save.

    Put Wakanda on maps and in school textbooks of geography. Make the movies and TV shows set in Wakanda free. Ban diversity casting, and put blacks only in Wakanda stuff, but make plenty of it. Free one-way plane tickets to Wakanda, Africa, and give a $10,000 stipend per person. Sounds like a lot? It is nothing compared to the savings!

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  187. @Hyperborean
    I was talking about Europe, since the conversation was about blacks in NS-Germany and modern Germany.

    For the US I would just give blacks a part of the South as an autonomous self-determination state.

    I was talking about Europe

    I don’t find it very realistic for Europe either tbh, too draconian and excessive.
    I’d propose the following steps (unfortunately also very unlikely to be implemented):
    - for Germany: complete abolition of the right to asylum as currently guaranteed in the Basic law. Complete abolition of welfare payments to people who have entered Germany illegally.
    - Africans taken up in the Mediterranean won’t be brought to Europe, but immediately taken back to North Africa, where they’ll get food and sufficient money for traveling back to their home countries. Ships of people traffickers will be destroyed.
    - NGOs facilitating illegal immigration will be prohibited, their assets seized, and anyone found guilty of aiding illegal immigration will be sentenced to at least 5 years in prison.
    - Treaties with North African states (financial subsidies, training for their border forces) so they’ll stop immigrants at their own borders.
    - African states that don’t cooperate in taking back their own citizens won’t receive development aid and will have economic warfare by all means waged against them, whereas cooperation will earn support. Development aid will also be made conditional on promoting women’s rights, women’s education and feminism (goal of that is of course to bring the birth rates down).
    - Deportation drives against illegal immigrants. Zero tolerance policies against petty crime (e.g. ALL forms of drug dealing, even marihuana).
    - Make it impossible for migrants to send remittances back home (close down all those Western Union offices or at least strictly monitor/restrict transactions).

    I think those measures wouldn’t even be that brutal and would do a lot to solve the problem.

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    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @songbird

    Complete abolition of welfare payments to people who have entered Germany illegally.
     
    I think at a minimum, you have have to end all the wealth transfer between groups. Ex: no welfare for Turks in Germany - unless the Turks can pay it. IMO, it is absolutely necessary to end the parasitism in order for European demographics to rebound. I think it would also be ultimately good for social cohesion among true Europeans.

    Freedom of association is also necessary.
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  188. Bliss says:
    @AaronB
    Fair enough, but why did the Right lose access to the long term indoctrination centers? They used to have complete control.

    The right wing power holders seem to have been unable to retain their position of strength. And high IQ people seem to have overwhelmingly found the message of the Left more appealing.

    What I find you and many of the commenters here do is focus on the mechanics of the situation instead of taking a step back from the details and focusing on first principles which drive the mechanics.

    How is the Left nihilistic? The Left seems to be offering human perfection on earth. The ultimate perfection of society.

    What has been the message of the Right? That human beings are deeply flawed and need law and order to live decently.

    This is very true, but it isn't enough. What's missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God.

    But the Right can't seriously make that claim in a secular world, so it focuses on the practical benefits of right wing policies. Such as low crime, economic prosperity, law and order, and social stability.

    So both the Left and the Right are materialistic - with the Left offering endless progress towards social perfection, and the Right offering a limited vision of decent living.

    Which sells better?

    What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God. But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world

    Firstly, don’t blame secularism which simply means separation of Church and State. Secularism is not anti-spirituality per se. Your issue is with atheism-materialism….which is tolerated under secularism along with all religions and metaphysical ideologies.

    Secondly, western religion from barbarian to greco-roman to christian has never believed in “union with God”. That is Indian (non-vedic) spirituality. So why would the idea of making “that claim” even occur to a western conservative? Whatever made you think that going back to the pre-Enlightenment era, when pantheists were burned at the stake, would result in a society that is “well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God”. That doesn’t make any sense.

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    • Replies: @AaronB
    You're forgetting the great Christian mystics, orthodox Christianity as a whole, and the Greek mystical tradition as a whole. All were based on increasing unity with god. Only Protestantism made a decisive break with this and there were even protestant mystics who were great. Vedic traditions are not radically discontinuous with western traditions.

    I won't deny that traditional societies often went wrong and did terrible things like burning witches and the like. There is unfortunately no safety for us humans. But the Enlightenment robbed life of its value.

    Separation of church and state happened because things like morality ceased being important. It was an attempt to eliminate the need to use judgement and discernment. We could just banish all these questions and focus on getting rich and powerful.

    But we are a community. We cannot banish morality from the public realm. It is an illusion to think we can just choose for ourselves. We end up just surrendering the field to the worst people. We are influenced in a thousand ways by others. We are embedded in a web.

    If we seperatee church and state the moral people lose spirit and the bad people dominate. The task is to avoid the crazy excesses of religion but make morality front and center in our public life. Its hard and well often fail. Crazy excesses will happen.

    The enlightenment was an attempt at a panacea. It ended up killing the patient.
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  189. @Polish Perspective

    I suspect that in their discourse they can refer to themselves as Swedes or even Nordics w/o invoking the dreaded word Whites. The American right has no such luxury
     
    They do refer to themselves primarily as Swedish. Sometimes the phrase 'Nordic race' is used. However, they are remarkably sanguine about integrating other European ethnicities with the exception of some Balkan types.

    Simon Lindberg, who is the leader of NMR, also openly talks about the white race, though as an ancillary concept and not a primary one to their world view.

    I think your comment gets at a fundamental divide, namely that the US is a mishmash of various white ethnicities and Europe, for the most part, is not. Though this is changing in some Western European countries. 20% of German new-borns are of mixed European parentage. This caused some furore a few years ago as "40% of German newborns have migrant background" and the right-wing was in up arms. Few actually bothered to check the actual data. When you did, you noticed that half of those 40% were inter-Europeans offspring. German_reader is a mix of British and German if I am not mistaken. So this is already increasingly a reality in Europe and groups like NMR are cognisant of that. As more and more sub-Saharan and MENA peoples move into Europe, I suspect we will see greater a strengthening of a Pan-European identity slowly emerge, though for reasons which the EU will not be pleased about.


    One would think that Poles would have it as simple as Swedes, however they identify with Catholicism which in principle is universal (Catholic) where there are no ethnic distinctions so it is hard for them to self-identify in racial terms.
     
    This is very true. Catholicism is still a very dominant aspect of what it means to be Polish, much to my chagrin.

    On the other hand as the result of Hitler and Stalin doings they became very mono-ethnic and mono-cultural after the WWII. To be a Pole and Polish citizen became equivalent and there was no need to be concerned with millions of Jews, Germans and Ukrainians living in Poland. But once they let immigrants in even Ukrainians who will become Polish citizens they will face a semantic dilemma of how to refer to themselves.
     
    The Polish left are actually correct when they point out that Poland has historically been quite multicultural and that today's Poland is a historical anomaly which was created largely because of actions of Nazi Germany during WWII and then by Stalin as he wanted neat blocs of ethnically-defined countries, and as such encouraged either ethnic cleansing of the remaining Germans or population movements (many Poles from what is today's Western Ukraine and even parts of Belarus were moved to today's Poland).

    My thinking on this has changed over the last year. I used to think our history doomed the right-wing's position in the debate over the long term but now I am not so sure if history matters that much. Some of the Scandinavian countries have been extremely homogeneous for most of their history, yet have embraced mass migration by the 3rd world with gusto, the aforementioned Sweden is a prime example but even Norway is very liberal. By contrast, China has a history of population movements of outsiders yet their current government is amazing on this aspect. We don't tend to appreciate the diversity of related peoples they had to contend with, just as many non-Europeans do not keep track of all European ethnicities, aside from the big ones.

    I don't think Ukrainians or Belorussians becoming Polish will present big difficulties as these are brotherly peoples. The bigger problem is if we are going to get increasing numbers of non-white citizens. Right now the problem is small. We naturalised just around 3000 people last year and the vast majority of them were other East Europeans. It takes around between 7 to 10 years to get Polish citizenship if you do not have any ancestry (which quite a few Ukrainians and Belorussians do), depending upon who your spouse is.

    So we have maybe 10-15 years before we will see large(r) numbers of non-whites get Polish citizenship. There are certainly worse positions to be in, but at the same time, we are more bluepilled on race than many other nations in Europe. It's a race against 25 years of leftist-neoliberal hegemony which has not really been broken by PiS but at best mildly challenged. I for one think that the developments in the West will be key for us. I agree with those who say that the West is more stable than many think and if it just keeps going, Poland will likely drift in this direction sooner or later with increasing speed rather than away from it, as will most of Eastern Europe in general. We're interconnected, whether we like it or not.

    “Though this is changing in some Western European countries. 20% of German new-borns are of mixed European parentage. This caused some furore a few years ago as “40% of German newborns have migrant background” and the right-wing was in up arms. Few actually bothered to check the actual data. When you did, you noticed that half of those 40% were inter-Europeans offspring. German_reader is a mix of British and German if I am not mistaken. So this is already increasingly a reality in Europe and groups like NMR are cognisant of that. As more and more sub-Saharan and MENA peoples move into Europe, I suspect we will see greater a strengthening of a Pan-European identity slowly emerge, though for reasons which the EU will not be pleased about.”

    This may be one of the few things I agree with Richard Spencer on. He is not very clear on it(just like he is not on most subjects) but I believe the reason he is against Brexit is because he thinks May is going to replace all if the White immigrants from the rest of Europe with non whites from the “commonwealth”. I honestly believe the reason Blair increased non European immigration to the UK was because he was afraid of eastern EU immigration making the UK “More White”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    Non-European immigration went up sharply in the early years of Blair being prime minister from 1997 onwards when Labour won power. Eastern European immigration was insignificant until 2004 when Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic etc. joined the EU and the UK imposed no restrictions on their migration unlike Germany.

    There was no scheme to replace the native population. Labour came to power when the economy was doing well, they had promoted themselves as a pro-business party and the business lobby wanted more work permits for overseas workers as they are demanding now. The decision to let in the 2004 entrants was done to show the UK was a good European citizen, the same motivating Blair to push for joining the euro. Germany was still recovering from the unification of East Germany and was not in the mood to accept more workers.

    Since there was a huge flood of European immigration, the business lobby did not cause much of a fuss when the Tories brought in restrictions on non-EU migration in 2012.
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  190. @AaronB
    I think I've said somewhere that Nazism had many appealing aspects. But overall it was a grotesque hybrid of the worst aspects of Judaism, secularism, and materialism, and some occult elements thrown in.

    The socialism and brotherhood element are great and necessary. But the hatred and conquest element - bad. The mythic poetic element was necessary, though needs to be better done.

    Also it tried to be a religion but was materialistic. For instance Hitler was ready to give up on the German people because of one defeat. That's pathetic. That's not how you do religion. But if you're materialistic, you can't think in terms of eternity.

    But it should be a lesson to us how you can inspire millions to self sacrifice and heroism if you have a vision. Even a corrupted one.

    I love Norse mythology! Many beautiful and noble elements. But ultimately the great love-based religions are the only way to go. They supplanted paganism everywhere in the world for a reason. They are higher.

    Would Norse religion be better than secular modernity? Undoubtedly.

    You know what would have really helped the Nazi’s out? If they would have considered Jews honorary Aryans!

    Read More
    • Replies: @AaronB
    If they would have developed the concept of the Aryan as a spiritual quality and not just a biological materialistic one, that would have helped.

    In Buddhism the word Aryan means merely noble - any human is capable of it.

    Because the concept of the Aryan was biological and Darwinist, German defeat was considered final. They were hampered by their materialism.
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  191. AaronB says:
    @Bliss

    What’s missing is the traditional idea that society should be well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God. But the Right can’t seriously make that claim in a secular world
     
    Firstly, don’t blame secularism which simply means separation of Church and State. Secularism is not anti-spirituality per se. Your issue is with atheism-materialism....which is tolerated under secularism along with all religions and metaphysical ideologies.

    Secondly, western religion from barbarian to greco-roman to christian has never believed in “union with God”. That is Indian (non-vedic) spirituality. So why would the idea of making “that claim” even occur to a western conservative? Whatever made you think that going back to the pre-Enlightenment era, when pantheists were burned at the stake, would result in a society that is “well ordered so that humans can pursue spiritual perfection through union with God”. That doesn’t make any sense.

    You’re forgetting the great Christian mystics, orthodox Christianity as a whole, and the Greek mystical tradition as a whole. All were based on increasing unity with god. Only Protestantism made a decisive break with this and there were even protestant mystics who were great. Vedic traditions are not radically discontinuous with western traditions.

    I won’t deny that traditional societies often went wrong and did terrible things like burning witches and the like. There is unfortunately no safety for us humans. But the Enlightenment robbed life of its value.

    Separation of church and state happened because things like morality ceased being important. It was an attempt to eliminate the need to use judgement and discernment. We could just banish all these questions and focus on getting rich and powerful.

    But we are a community. We cannot banish morality from the public realm. It is an illusion to think we can just choose for ourselves. We end up just surrendering the field to the worst people. We are influenced in a thousand ways by others. We are embedded in a web.

    If we seperatee church and state the moral people lose spirit and the bad people dominate. The task is to avoid the crazy excesses of religion but make morality front and center in our public life. Its hard and well often fail. Crazy excesses will happen.

    The enlightenment was an attempt at a panacea. It ended up killing the patient.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bliss

    You’re forgetting the great Christian mystics, orthodox Christianity as a whole, and the Greek mystical tradition as a whole. All were based on increasing unity with god.
     
    The dogma of Christianity cannot be reconciled with mysticism. The Church Fathers considered Gnosticism their arch enemy and it was suppressed. Centuries later the Catholic Church brutally wiped out the Cathars of France in a Crusade . It burned pantheists alive as in the case of Giordano Bruno. Whatever mysticism existed in the West did so in spite of the religion not because of it. Why on earth would you want to go back that era?

    That was also the era of slavery and serfdom. Serfdom in Europe was worst under the Orthodox Christianity of Russia. That was no golden age.
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  192. utu says:
    @Hyperborean
    Why this hostility?

    Because I thought your were sincere and thoughtful. OK, you would not be shot. Just assigned to peeling potatoes in the kitchen for the internees.

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    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Well, the aim should not just be to stop immigration it should also be to reverse it.

    While you and German Reader's proposals seem good in terms of preventing further immigration I don't see how it will solve the problem of the people who are already here.

    Besides, potatoes taste worse when they are peeled.

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  193. JackOH says:

    Just had time for a quick eye-roll. The character descriptions had me thinking of the Heartland vs. Cosmopolis distinction I’d read years ago.

    Left and Right, Democrats and Republicans, seem to me both slobs who cover for their corporate masters. But the Left has therapeutic, stroking rhetoric and redistribution in its favor. Putting money in people’s pockets covers a multitude of sins. What does the Right have to offer? Order, tradition, or, how ’bout those Republican faves, market-based solutions and the opportunity society?

    A program that combines redistribution with a philosophy of national revival could be a winner except it puts you in Herr Hitler’s briar patch.

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    • Replies: @utu

    A program that combines redistribution with a philosophy of national revival could be a winner except it puts you in Herr Hitler’s briar patch.
     
    Nothing wrong with it. It is possible that this was the true reason for Hitler's early vilification. Must redistribution and national revival lead to some kind of genocide?
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  194. AaronB says:
    @Anarcho-Supremacist
    You know what would have really helped the Nazi's out? If they would have considered Jews honorary Aryans!

    If they would have developed the concept of the Aryan as a spiritual quality and not just a biological materialistic one, that would have helped.

    In Buddhism the word Aryan means merely noble – any human is capable of it.

    Because the concept of the Aryan was biological and Darwinist, German defeat was considered final. They were hampered by their materialism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anarcho-Supremacist
    "If they would have developed the concept of the Aryan as a spiritual quality and not just a biological materialistic one, that would have helped."

    That just sounds like a way to make Nazi's even gayer then they already were.
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  195. Bliss says:
    @AaronB
    I don't support hatred and conquest because I believe in the underlying spiritual unity of mankind - really of all phenomena including animals. I think Ahimsa is basically correct as a principle. We are all One. All great spiritual teachers without exception have had this insight.

    However, I distinguish between the corporeal realm and the spiritual realm. Humans function best as part of groups. Without group love, humans become selfish individualists. They do not become loving universalists. So while keeping an eye on the ultimate spiritual ideal of Oneness, we must organise into groups of nations. There will be wars and conflict. But this world will never be prefect.

    A thousand year Reich is nothing. Every religion seeks eternity and infinity. And one defeat and the Germans are worthless? Hitler's racial loyalty was weak. Because it was based on materialism.

    You are right historically love was directed at the in group. This is better than self love. In this fallen world, group love is necessary. But this is a step on the path to universal love. Of course, it often will fall into inter group hatred.

    Islam is s universa