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Some numbers:

There are about 300,000 babies born to foreign citizens in the US every year, of which the vast majority will be accruing to Central American illegals.

Only an estimated 40,000 occurs due to birth tourism.

There are no hard statistics on this. However, some cursory searching gave me this thesis by Brandon J. Folse, which cites “more than 10,000″ Chinese women giving birth in the US in 2012, and 40-60 Russian women giving birth in Miami each month (based on a Moscow Times report). Consequently, its safe to say that the total figure is less than 1,000, since Miami is the center of Russian birth tourism in the US, not to mention the long-standing tendency of The Moscow Times to exaggerate Russia’s emigration stats.

This would furthermore be in line with general immigration statistics.

China also sends the largest number of immigrants to the US after Mexico, and accounts for almost a third of its international students. This is understandable. China has very close commercial and cultural links with the US, and all things American enjoy a great deal of prestige in China.

In contrast, Russian emigration to the US is much more modest, even in per capita terms. It does not make the first 20 countries by numbers of total immigrants, nor the top 10 by numbers of foreign students.

It also syncs well with other anecdotal evidence and pure logic.

Twitter user Richard Hollywood investigates: “searching for birth tourism and репродуктивный туризм on yandex only brings up news/what is this articles. there’s some dedicated birth tourism sites in russian but also in like five other languages

In fairness, he did eventually find the site SFF-Miami, which offers birth tourism services to Russians and Ukrainians in Florida. I checked its visitorship numbers on SimilarWeb; there weren’t enough for it to even register there. Which is not surprising when you look at the prices – the standard “package” there costs $19,500. Another similarly obscure organization, AmeriMama, offers prices starting from $17,000.

These are prices that only perhaps 1-2% of Russians are able to pay out on just a lark, since birth tourism is essentially just a gamble that their children would 1) want to emigrate to the US on reaching adulthood, and 2) be subsequently willing to being their parents over on a Green Card.

Another important point.

Although I can understand that red-blooded Americans may not like foreigners essentially buying up US citizenships for their progeny on account of some outdated document written at a time when the Americas were still an unpopulated expanse, it’s worth noting that it’s not as if the children of rich birth tourists are going to be any sort of strain on the US welfare system. They will give birth, fork over $$$ to the US medical system, hotels, etc., and go back home. Even if their children do subsequently go to the US, the chances that they will end up collecting welfare are close to zero.

Theoretically, the US should if anything gain financially, because it is the only country in the world (along with Eritrea) to claim taxes on the worldwide income of their citizens. I say theoretically, because in practice, I am sure that virtually no child of birth tourists is going to be doing that.

So why the media suddenly kvetching over this complete non-issue of a few thousand Russians practicing birth tourism and forming, as one Drumpf Resistor on Twitter put it, “the colony of Russian ppl (especially in NYC) nobodies talking about. Who I know coming here having babies getting public aid”?

As opposed to concerning themselves with the few million anchor babies planted by illegal immigrants in just the past couple of decades?

https://twitter.com/pnehlen/status/951193221169901569

Well, Paul Nehlen has some ideas.

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Immigration, Russiagate, United States 
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  1. Must be some cunning KGB plot to subvert American democracy, at least a few of those babies are probably intended to become long-term sleeper agents infiltrating US media and politics. Putin’s probably already planning to steal the 2052 elections.
    I’d really wish though that the US abolished this insane concept of birthright citizenship, it’s always brought up by “antiracists” here as something to emulate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I have no objection to dealing with this birth tourism though legislation, but we are currently near complete dysfunctionality with regard to legislation.

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.

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  2. Nobody’s, I think you meant to write.

    This Nehlen character is definitely doubling down on his crimespeech, isn’t he? Either he’s given up on a mainstream career, or he doesn’t care, or he’s counting on a massive shift in the Overton Window in the US back to the more healthy days when US politicians at the highest levels could openly talk about one of the biggest problems facing their country.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Nah, I was stealing this gem:

    https://twitter.com/msdeehj1/status/951156586403323904

    I have become open about my skepticism about the prospects for the MAGA agenda. Going all in - what Nehlen is doing - doesn't sound like a half bad idea to me at this point. At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory, at best, as you say, he'll move the Overton Window even further right.
    , @iffen
    one of the biggest problems facing their country.

    You read too much Unz.

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.

    We just recognized JERUSALEM as the capital of Israel.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. @Randal
    Nobody's, I think you meant to write.

    This Nehlen character is definitely doubling down on his crimespeech, isn't he? Either he's given up on a mainstream career, or he doesn't care, or he's counting on a massive shift in the Overton Window in the US back to the more healthy days when US politicians at the highest levels could openly talk about one of the biggest problems facing their country.

    Nah, I was stealing this gem:

    I have become open about my skepticism about the prospects for the MAGA agenda. Going all in – what Nehlen is doing – doesn’t sound like a half bad idea to me at this point. At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory, at best, as you say, he’ll move the Overton Window even further right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    . At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory,

    Yeah, he'll probably zoom up to 20% from 15%.
    , @Randal
    Fair enough. I'm not a twitterer so hadn't seen that.

    I have become open about my skepticism about the prospects for the MAGA agenda. Going all in – what Nehlen is doing – doesn’t sound like a half bad idea to me at this point. At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory, at best, as you say, he’ll move the Overton Window even further right.
     
    More power to his elbow, as we say in this part of the world.
    , @Miro23

    Reached for comment, Nehlen told CNN, "Putting America First above all other nations, such as being pro-wall and for freedom of lawful speech, has brought a coordinated attack by globalists from both parties; nevertheless I will continue to stand strong against anti-American sentiment, however it manifests."
     
    It's interesting to see how this works out. Unlike Trump, Nehlen has chosen not to collaborate, while Breitbart is showing its true colours in "Unpersoning" him as fast as they can.

    But Breitbart and Bannon recently severed ties with Nehlen. Schwartz told CNN the decision was made earlier this month after Bannon was alerted that Nehlen had appeared on a white nationalist podcast.
     
    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/27/media/paul-nehlen-steve-bannon-breitbart/index.html
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  4. @German_reader
    Must be some cunning KGB plot to subvert American democracy, at least a few of those babies are probably intended to become long-term sleeper agents infiltrating US media and politics. Putin's probably already planning to steal the 2052 elections.
    I'd really wish though that the US abolished this insane concept of birthright citizenship, it's always brought up by "antiracists" here as something to emulate.

    I have no objection to dealing with this birth tourism though legislation, but we are currently near complete dysfunctionality with regard to legislation.

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the nation into which it is born
     
    Sentimental rot, gives perverse incentives to parasites and invaders. Such an absurd system will destroy any meaningful sense of national community, but then that's exactly what seems to be happening in the US anyway.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Only people to live by those moral grounds - denizens of the Americas.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Jus_soli_world.svg/1200px-Jus_soli_world.svg.png

    Clearly a result of them being unpopulated at the time their Constitutions were being written, a consideration which has long ceased to apply.
    , @Thorfinnsson

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.
     
    You are a pathetic weakling.
    , @Twinkie

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.
     
    Why is it less moral to tell the baby's parents that he has a claim upon THEIR country? Especially if those parents are in a foreign (to them) country in violation of the laws of the said country?
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  5. @Anatoly Karlin
    Nah, I was stealing this gem:

    https://twitter.com/msdeehj1/status/951156586403323904

    I have become open about my skepticism about the prospects for the MAGA agenda. Going all in - what Nehlen is doing - doesn't sound like a half bad idea to me at this point. At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory, at best, as you say, he'll move the Overton Window even further right.

    . At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory,

    Yeah, he’ll probably zoom up to 20% from 15%.

    Read More
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  6. @iffen
    I have no objection to dealing with this birth tourism though legislation, but we are currently near complete dysfunctionality with regard to legislation.

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the nation into which it is born

    Sentimental rot, gives perverse incentives to parasites and invaders. Such an absurd system will destroy any meaningful sense of national community, but then that’s exactly what seems to be happening in the US anyway.

    Read More
    • Agree: Randal
    • Replies: @Randal
    The idea that just because a baby's parents happened to be visiting a country when it was born it should be entitled to claim that nationality does seem like exactly what you describe it as - sentimental rot.

    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers, but it makes no sense even in America today.
    , @iffen
    At least most of our wetbacks came in illegally, although some may have "overstayed" their bracero status.

    We did not have a legislated policy of importing thousands and thousands of "guest" workers via treaties with other governments.

    Suck it up, GR.
    , @iffen
    Sentimental rot, gives perverse incentives to parasites and invaders.

    What kind of nonsense is this?
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  7. @Anatoly Karlin
    Nah, I was stealing this gem:

    https://twitter.com/msdeehj1/status/951156586403323904

    I have become open about my skepticism about the prospects for the MAGA agenda. Going all in - what Nehlen is doing - doesn't sound like a half bad idea to me at this point. At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory, at best, as you say, he'll move the Overton Window even further right.

    Fair enough. I’m not a twitterer so hadn’t seen that.

    I have become open about my skepticism about the prospects for the MAGA agenda. Going all in – what Nehlen is doing – doesn’t sound like a half bad idea to me at this point. At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory, at best, as you say, he’ll move the Overton Window even further right.

    More power to his elbow, as we say in this part of the world.

    Read More
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  8. @Randal
    Nobody's, I think you meant to write.

    This Nehlen character is definitely doubling down on his crimespeech, isn't he? Either he's given up on a mainstream career, or he doesn't care, or he's counting on a massive shift in the Overton Window in the US back to the more healthy days when US politicians at the highest levels could openly talk about one of the biggest problems facing their country.

    one of the biggest problems facing their country.

    You read too much Unz.

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.

    We just recognized JERUSALEM as the capital of Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    We just recognized JERUSALEM as the capital of Israel.
     
    You cite evidence of the problem as though it supported your case. That decision was almost universally and very publicly (and rightly) condemned by most of the rest of the world, including most of your allies and (usually) sycophants.

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.
     
    You say that, but you've grown up heavily propagandised and under the influence (indirect at least) of deranged religious doctrines relating to jews in particular.

    I tend to think people like FDR, Truman and Nixon had a better grasp of reality, back when such truths could still be expressed in public by US politicians. Of course, it's most likely there are plenty of senior US politicians with similar opinions today, but they have enough of a cowardly sense of self-preservation to pretend otherwise.

    Nixon, Truman, and FDR’s Private Thoughts About Jews

    The issue is massively excessive influence, especially on foreign policy but also on many aspects of domestic policy, combined with an unavoidable presumption (not necessarily always justified, but more often than not) of dual loyalty to a state and nation other than the one they live in.

    , @neutral

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.
     
    People love jews as much as people loved Stalin, it is part fear and part ignorance. Jews are a remarkably unlikable people, there is a reason that they have been so hated throughout history, obviously you being jew will blame the world, the jews themselves can never be blamed for this.
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  9. @German_reader

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the nation into which it is born
     
    Sentimental rot, gives perverse incentives to parasites and invaders. Such an absurd system will destroy any meaningful sense of national community, but then that's exactly what seems to be happening in the US anyway.

    The idea that just because a baby’s parents happened to be visiting a country when it was born it should be entitled to claim that nationality does seem like exactly what you describe it as – sentimental rot.

    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers, but it makes no sense even in America today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers
     
    And when jet airliners and long haul flights didn’t exist yet. Birth tourism was impossible until the second half of the 20th century, and it became really easy (for at least a segment of the population) only recently.
    , @for-the-record
    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers, but it makes no sense even in America today.

    Logical, but perhaps historically not entirely factual. Jus soli does not seem to have become firmly established in the US until the passage of the 14th Amendment after the Civil War. If you look up all the arguments in support of jus soli, they always refer back to this text, which essentially reversed the 1857 Dred Scott decision in which the US Supreme Court held that "African Americans" born in the US, even if free, were not US citizens.
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  10. This is the kind of story the Kremlin won’t exactly be excited about it getting trending all over the media, as it goes against narratives – especially if the identity of any of these ‘birth-tourists’ are famous people.

    There was recently a series of articles planted in lenta.ru, talking about various emigrants that were unhappy in their overseas country. The articles were heavily edited to make it seem worse than it was (at least in a verified way for one of the people they had originally interviewed) – the author was traced to a political technologist affiliated with Kristina Potupchik.

    Read More
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  11. @iffen
    I have no objection to dealing with this birth tourism though legislation, but we are currently near complete dysfunctionality with regard to legislation.

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.

    Only people to live by those moral grounds – denizens of the Americas.

    Clearly a result of them being unpopulated at the time their Constitutions were being written, a consideration which has long ceased to apply.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I see Paris, I see France, England has no underpants.

    Everything has a source, a cause.
    , @Seamus Padraig
    I don't believe we actually had birthright citizenship until the passage of the 14th Amendment in 1868. The amendment's wording ("All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States ...") has been interpreted by the courts to apply to the whole world, rather than just to the ex-slaves of the South, as I am sure it was originally intended to do.
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  12. @German_reader

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the nation into which it is born
     
    Sentimental rot, gives perverse incentives to parasites and invaders. Such an absurd system will destroy any meaningful sense of national community, but then that's exactly what seems to be happening in the US anyway.

    At least most of our wetbacks came in illegally, although some may have “overstayed” their bracero status.

    We did not have a legislated policy of importing thousands and thousands of “guest” workers via treaties with other governments.

    Suck it up, GR.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Suck it up, GR.
     
    Are you now starting to imitate "Art Deco" with his penchant for such retarded, pseudo-tough one-liners? Anyway, I'm the last person to deny that Germany's immigration and asylum policies have been completely insane for a long time (though the "guest worker" programme actually worked just fine with Southern Europeans who kept to the deal; just was a grave mistake to extend it to Turks).
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  13. @iffen
    At least most of our wetbacks came in illegally, although some may have "overstayed" their bracero status.

    We did not have a legislated policy of importing thousands and thousands of "guest" workers via treaties with other governments.

    Suck it up, GR.

    Suck it up, GR.

    Are you now starting to imitate “Art Deco” with his penchant for such retarded, pseudo-tough one-liners? Anyway, I’m the last person to deny that Germany’s immigration and asylum policies have been completely insane for a long time (though the “guest worker” programme actually worked just fine with Southern Europeans who kept to the deal; just was a grave mistake to extend it to Turks).

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Are you now starting to imitate “Art Deco” with his penchant for such retarded, pseudo-tough one-liners?

    Not sure how it qualifies as retarded, but anyway, AD makes somes interesting comments, but they are a bit uneven.
    , @Yevardian
    I like Art Deco, he's one of the most quality trolls on here.

    I have become open about my skepticism about the prospects for the MAGA agenda. Going all in – what Nehlen is doing – doesn’t sound like a half bad idea to me at this point. At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory, at best, as you say, he’ll move the Overton Window even further right.
     
    Don't be so negative, its all a part of Trump's clever plan to overthrow the globalists from the inside. MAGA!

    http://pic.bkcimg.com/upload/bbs/images/8/20170219/0c870a7b8769577be635fde16f06d83b.jpg
    , @Anonymous
    Oh i guess Germans have fond memories on YUgo people now.
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  14. @Anatoly Karlin
    Only people to live by those moral grounds - denizens of the Americas.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Jus_soli_world.svg/1200px-Jus_soli_world.svg.png

    Clearly a result of them being unpopulated at the time their Constitutions were being written, a consideration which has long ceased to apply.

    I see Paris, I see France, England has no underpants.

    Everything has a source, a cause.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Light blue denotes limited jus soli (typically at least one of the parents has to be a citizen, etc.).

    Much more reasonable than letting anyone and everyone who happens to be born in your country be a citizen.
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  15. @German_reader

    Suck it up, GR.
     
    Are you now starting to imitate "Art Deco" with his penchant for such retarded, pseudo-tough one-liners? Anyway, I'm the last person to deny that Germany's immigration and asylum policies have been completely insane for a long time (though the "guest worker" programme actually worked just fine with Southern Europeans who kept to the deal; just was a grave mistake to extend it to Turks).

    Are you now starting to imitate “Art Deco” with his penchant for such retarded, pseudo-tough one-liners?

    Not sure how it qualifies as retarded, but anyway, AD makes somes interesting comments, but they are a bit uneven.

    Read More
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  16. @iffen
    I see Paris, I see France, England has no underpants.

    Everything has a source, a cause.

    Light blue denotes limited jus soli (typically at least one of the parents has to be a citizen, etc.).

    Much more reasonable than letting anyone and everyone who happens to be born in your country be a citizen.

    Read More
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  17. @German_reader

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the nation into which it is born
     
    Sentimental rot, gives perverse incentives to parasites and invaders. Such an absurd system will destroy any meaningful sense of national community, but then that's exactly what seems to be happening in the US anyway.

    Sentimental rot, gives perverse incentives to parasites and invaders.

    What kind of nonsense is this?

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    It's not nonsense at all, just suitably brutal language to get the point across. The kind of sentimentalism you espouse - "oooh, look at those poor little babies, it's not their fault their parents broke the law and entered the country illegally! Let's not be nasty, we have to deal with this in a humane and inclusive spirit!" - is exactly the key problem in all immigration-related discussions. There's always a sort of pretense that it's just a few hard cases ("you have to look at the individual!"), where one can afford to be generous without negative consequences...instead of nation-wrecking, systemic abuse.
    Since you're always big on defending Israel, maybe you should look at how they deal with such issues (actually one of the admirable traits of the Jewish state imo).
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  18. @iffen
    Sentimental rot, gives perverse incentives to parasites and invaders.

    What kind of nonsense is this?

    It’s not nonsense at all, just suitably brutal language to get the point across. The kind of sentimentalism you espouse – “oooh, look at those poor little babies, it’s not their fault their parents broke the law and entered the country illegally! Let’s not be nasty, we have to deal with this in a humane and inclusive spirit!” – is exactly the key problem in all immigration-related discussions. There’s always a sort of pretense that it’s just a few hard cases (“you have to look at the individual!”), where one can afford to be generous without negative consequences…instead of nation-wrecking, systemic abuse.
    Since you’re always big on defending Israel, maybe you should look at how they deal with such issues (actually one of the admirable traits of the Jewish state imo).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dissident

    Since you’re always big on defending Israel, maybe you should look at how they deal with such issues (actually one of the admirable traits of the Jewish Zionist state imo).
     
    Note the change I made. Zionism ≠ Judaism. Plenty of Jews reject Zionism.
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  19. @iffen
    one of the biggest problems facing their country.

    You read too much Unz.

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.

    We just recognized JERUSALEM as the capital of Israel.

    We just recognized JERUSALEM as the capital of Israel.

    You cite evidence of the problem as though it supported your case. That decision was almost universally and very publicly (and rightly) condemned by most of the rest of the world, including most of your allies and (usually) sycophants.

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.

    You say that, but you’ve grown up heavily propagandised and under the influence (indirect at least) of deranged religious doctrines relating to jews in particular.

    I tend to think people like FDR, Truman and Nixon had a better grasp of reality, back when such truths could still be expressed in public by US politicians. Of course, it’s most likely there are plenty of senior US politicians with similar opinions today, but they have enough of a cowardly sense of self-preservation to pretend otherwise.

    Nixon, Truman, and FDR’s Private Thoughts About Jews

    The issue is massively excessive influence, especially on foreign policy but also on many aspects of domestic policy, combined with an unavoidable presumption (not necessarily always justified, but more often than not) of dual loyalty to a state and nation other than the one they live in.

    Read More
    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @iffen
    You say that, but you’ve grown up heavily propagandised and under the influence (indirect at least) of deranged religious doctrines relating to jews

    That would be my mother, the most trusted members of my church and the community that loved and produced me.

    Fuck off, cocksucker.
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  20. The issue is massively excessive influence, especially on foreign policy but also on many aspects of domestic policy, combined with an unavoidable presumption (not necessarily always justified, but more often than not) of dual loyalty to a state and nation other than the one they live in.

    I can sniff them out, Sam.

    As crazy as it seems I think I have some sort of talent.

    Read More
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  21. @Randal

    We just recognized JERUSALEM as the capital of Israel.
     
    You cite evidence of the problem as though it supported your case. That decision was almost universally and very publicly (and rightly) condemned by most of the rest of the world, including most of your allies and (usually) sycophants.

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.
     
    You say that, but you've grown up heavily propagandised and under the influence (indirect at least) of deranged religious doctrines relating to jews in particular.

    I tend to think people like FDR, Truman and Nixon had a better grasp of reality, back when such truths could still be expressed in public by US politicians. Of course, it's most likely there are plenty of senior US politicians with similar opinions today, but they have enough of a cowardly sense of self-preservation to pretend otherwise.

    Nixon, Truman, and FDR’s Private Thoughts About Jews

    The issue is massively excessive influence, especially on foreign policy but also on many aspects of domestic policy, combined with an unavoidable presumption (not necessarily always justified, but more often than not) of dual loyalty to a state and nation other than the one they live in.

    You say that, but you’ve grown up heavily propagandised and under the influence (indirect at least) of deranged religious doctrines relating to jews

    That would be my mother, the most trusted members of my church and the community that loved and produced me.

    Fuck off, cocksucker.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    That would be my mother, the most trusted members of my church and the community that loved and produced me.
     
    If you say so (and you have).

    What's up, happy for people to say critical things that are implicitly about the mothers and friends of members of other communities but yours is somehow "special"? Figures.

    I can sniff them out, Sam.

    As crazy as it seems I think I have some sort of talent.
     
    Back to that old crap? I thought we'd agreed long ago that I was a witch as far as your witch-finding inclinations are concerned, and moved on?
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  22. @iffen
    You say that, but you’ve grown up heavily propagandised and under the influence (indirect at least) of deranged religious doctrines relating to jews

    That would be my mother, the most trusted members of my church and the community that loved and produced me.

    Fuck off, cocksucker.

    That would be my mother, the most trusted members of my church and the community that loved and produced me.

    If you say so (and you have).

    What’s up, happy for people to say critical things that are implicitly about the mothers and friends of members of other communities but yours is somehow “special”? Figures.

    I can sniff them out, Sam.

    As crazy as it seems I think I have some sort of talent.

    Back to that old crap? I thought we’d agreed long ago that I was a witch as far as your witch-finding inclinations are concerned, and moved on?

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Back to that old crap? I thought we’d agreed long ago that I was a witch as far as your witch-finding inclinations are concerned, and moved on?

    No, I had my suspicions, but I wasn't certain. I like to be accurate, probably not a concern for you, but it is for me.

    You are a crafty and verbose sort.

    but yours is somehow “special”? Figures.


    Yes they were.

    Allow me to repeat myself.

    Fuck off, cocksucker.
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  23. @Randal

    That would be my mother, the most trusted members of my church and the community that loved and produced me.
     
    If you say so (and you have).

    What's up, happy for people to say critical things that are implicitly about the mothers and friends of members of other communities but yours is somehow "special"? Figures.

    I can sniff them out, Sam.

    As crazy as it seems I think I have some sort of talent.
     
    Back to that old crap? I thought we'd agreed long ago that I was a witch as far as your witch-finding inclinations are concerned, and moved on?

    Back to that old crap? I thought we’d agreed long ago that I was a witch as far as your witch-finding inclinations are concerned, and moved on?

    No, I had my suspicions, but I wasn’t certain. I like to be accurate, probably not a concern for you, but it is for me.

    You are a crafty and verbose sort.

    but yours is somehow “special”? Figures.

    Yes they were.

    Allow me to repeat myself.

    Fuck off, cocksucker.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    Allow me to repeat myself.

    Fuck off, cocksucker.

     

    Touchy.

    Allow me to give the response implied previously: No.

    Yes they were.
     
    Special to you, obviously, but that need cut no ice with anyone else. If muslims can be criticised for the dangerous lunacies some of their religious thinking gives rise to then sure as hell Christian loopy-fruits can be held to account for having deranged ideas about jews that cause them to pretend, as you do here, that mere statements of opinion about a perceived problem count as some kind of speech-crime termed "anti-Semitism".

    For those who might be interested in the likely reason why those with an evangelical Christian background like yourself might engage in this desperate protection of jewish interests, here's a pro-Israel writer explaining some of it in fairly gentle terms:

    Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?

    A lot of people here fixate on jewish people themselves as the cause of the problems in the US with issues over-promoted by the jewish lobbies (Israel, social radicalism, interventionism, suppression of dissent), but the reality is that it has always been the far greater numbers of evangelical Christians in the US who have been the real enablers and the real obstruction to addressing them.

    No, I had my suspicions, but I wasn’t certain. I like to be accurate, probably not a concern for you, but it is for me.

    You are a crafty and verbose sort.
     
    I make my views clear, but I don't let you write my views for me. You try your best with your dishonest antisemite witch-finding, of course, to use the usual antiracist/anti-antiSemite etc lie conflating criticism with hatred.

    But it's an old act, getting lamer by the day.
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  24. @German_reader

    Suck it up, GR.
     
    Are you now starting to imitate "Art Deco" with his penchant for such retarded, pseudo-tough one-liners? Anyway, I'm the last person to deny that Germany's immigration and asylum policies have been completely insane for a long time (though the "guest worker" programme actually worked just fine with Southern Europeans who kept to the deal; just was a grave mistake to extend it to Turks).

    I like Art Deco, he’s one of the most quality trolls on here.

    I have become open about my skepticism about the prospects for the MAGA agenda. Going all in – what Nehlen is doing – doesn’t sound like a half bad idea to me at this point. At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory, at best, as you say, he’ll move the Overton Window even further right.

    Don’t be so negative, its all a part of Trump’s clever plan to overthrow the globalists from the inside. MAGA!

    Read More
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  25. @Anatoly Karlin
    Nah, I was stealing this gem:

    https://twitter.com/msdeehj1/status/951156586403323904

    I have become open about my skepticism about the prospects for the MAGA agenda. Going all in - what Nehlen is doing - doesn't sound like a half bad idea to me at this point. At worst he will go out in a blaze of glory, at best, as you say, he'll move the Overton Window even further right.

    Reached for comment, Nehlen told CNN, “Putting America First above all other nations, such as being pro-wall and for freedom of lawful speech, has brought a coordinated attack by globalists from both parties; nevertheless I will continue to stand strong against anti-American sentiment, however it manifests.”

    It’s interesting to see how this works out. Unlike Trump, Nehlen has chosen not to collaborate, while Breitbart is showing its true colours in “Unpersoning” him as fast as they can.

    But Breitbart and Bannon recently severed ties with Nehlen. Schwartz told CNN the decision was made earlier this month after Bannon was alerted that Nehlen had appeared on a white nationalist podcast.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/27/media/paul-nehlen-steve-bannon-breitbart/index.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Breitbart is an Israeli site.
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  26. @iffen
    I have no objection to dealing with this birth tourism though legislation, but we are currently near complete dysfunctionality with regard to legislation.

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.

    You are a pathetic weakling.

    Read More
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  27. @German_reader
    It's not nonsense at all, just suitably brutal language to get the point across. The kind of sentimentalism you espouse - "oooh, look at those poor little babies, it's not their fault their parents broke the law and entered the country illegally! Let's not be nasty, we have to deal with this in a humane and inclusive spirit!" - is exactly the key problem in all immigration-related discussions. There's always a sort of pretense that it's just a few hard cases ("you have to look at the individual!"), where one can afford to be generous without negative consequences...instead of nation-wrecking, systemic abuse.
    Since you're always big on defending Israel, maybe you should look at how they deal with such issues (actually one of the admirable traits of the Jewish state imo).

    Since you’re always big on defending Israel, maybe you should look at how they deal with such issues (actually one of the admirable traits of the Jewish Zionist state imo).

    Note the change I made. Zionism ≠ Judaism. Plenty of Jews reject Zionism.

    Read More
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  28. @iffen
    I have no objection to dealing with this birth tourism though legislation, but we are currently near complete dysfunctionality with regard to legislation.

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.

    That said, I am opposed, on moral grounds, yes, I have some of those, to telling a baby that it has no claim upon the country in which it is born through no fault of its own.

    Why is it less moral to tell the baby’s parents that he has a claim upon THEIR country? Especially if those parents are in a foreign (to them) country in violation of the laws of the said country?

    Read More
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  29. By the way, I am 100% dead-set against jus soli. I think at least one parent has to be an American citizen or a permanent resident undergoing naturalization (upon the completion of which his minor child should become an American).

    But, while I oppose it, whether Russians or Chinese, upscale birth tourism is really a secondary (or tertiary) problem right now for the country. My first priority is to secure the integrity of the U.S. borders, i.e. eliminating or at least greatly reducing illegal border crossings and migrations. My second is to dramatically reduce legal immigration, including the H-1B visa scheme, the very bizarre diversity lottery, etc.

    I think a vast majority of Americans support these two goals, and while not perfect, these will take care of most of the immigration-related threats to the country today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I have adhered to the rule of not commenting on your comments and asked for the same. I remind you that it was originally your suggestion.

    I wish for this to be a one-off exception. This in spite of the fact that I agree with many of your comments.

    Why is it less moral to tell the baby’s parents that he has a claim upon THEIR country?

    Because I look at it from the baby’s point of view. I am reluctant to visit the sins of the parents upon the child.

    The white male and Asian female pairings, especially among the older generations, include a large fraction of poorly matched couples of disparate backgrounds.

    Where do you get off claiming Korean war brides and American servicemen were mis-matched? We can’t all be supermen and superwomen. Do you have facts that show those marriages were less stable than the norm?

    Since you are following this thread and have comments from actual WNs interspersed with mine, do you still maintain that I am a WN?
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  30. @Randal
    The idea that just because a baby's parents happened to be visiting a country when it was born it should be entitled to claim that nationality does seem like exactly what you describe it as - sentimental rot.

    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers, but it makes no sense even in America today.

    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers

    And when jet airliners and long haul flights didn’t exist yet. Birth tourism was impossible until the second half of the 20th century, and it became really easy (for at least a segment of the population) only recently.

    Read More
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  31. For what it is worth, I’ve always thought it was ridiculous. If the Constitution is a living document that needs to be updated with the change in technology and trends, this would be key as something to be amended.

    Its hard to see it as anything but abuse of what was once meaningful.

    Read More
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  32. @Twinkie
    By the way, I am 100% dead-set against jus soli. I think at least one parent has to be an American citizen or a permanent resident undergoing naturalization (upon the completion of which his minor child should become an American).

    But, while I oppose it, whether Russians or Chinese, upscale birth tourism is really a secondary (or tertiary) problem right now for the country. My first priority is to secure the integrity of the U.S. borders, i.e. eliminating or at least greatly reducing illegal border crossings and migrations. My second is to dramatically reduce legal immigration, including the H-1B visa scheme, the very bizarre diversity lottery, etc.

    I think a vast majority of Americans support these two goals, and while not perfect, these will take care of most of the immigration-related threats to the country today.

    I have adhered to the rule of not commenting on your comments and asked for the same. I remind you that it was originally your suggestion.

    I wish for this to be a one-off exception. This in spite of the fact that I agree with many of your comments.

    Why is it less moral to tell the baby’s parents that he has a claim upon THEIR country?

    Because I look at it from the baby’s point of view. I am reluctant to visit the sins of the parents upon the child.

    The white male and Asian female pairings, especially among the older generations, include a large fraction of poorly matched couples of disparate backgrounds.

    Where do you get off claiming Korean war brides and American servicemen were mis-matched? We can’t all be supermen and superwomen. Do you have facts that show those marriages were less stable than the norm?

    Since you are following this thread and have comments from actual WNs interspersed with mine, do you still maintain that I am a WN?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Twinkie

    I have adhered to the rule of not commenting on your comments and asked for the same. I remind you that it was originally your suggestion.
     
    Sorry. Forgot who you were. I don't keep track of most commenters.
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  33. @iffen
    Back to that old crap? I thought we’d agreed long ago that I was a witch as far as your witch-finding inclinations are concerned, and moved on?

    No, I had my suspicions, but I wasn't certain. I like to be accurate, probably not a concern for you, but it is for me.

    You are a crafty and verbose sort.

    but yours is somehow “special”? Figures.


    Yes they were.

    Allow me to repeat myself.

    Fuck off, cocksucker.

    Allow me to repeat myself.

    Fuck off, cocksucker.

    Touchy.

    Allow me to give the response implied previously: No.

    Yes they were.

    Special to you, obviously, but that need cut no ice with anyone else. If muslims can be criticised for the dangerous lunacies some of their religious thinking gives rise to then sure as hell Christian loopy-fruits can be held to account for having deranged ideas about jews that cause them to pretend, as you do here, that mere statements of opinion about a perceived problem count as some kind of speech-crime termed “anti-Semitism”.

    For those who might be interested in the likely reason why those with an evangelical Christian background like yourself might engage in this desperate protection of jewish interests, here’s a pro-Israel writer explaining some of it in fairly gentle terms:

    Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?

    A lot of people here fixate on jewish people themselves as the cause of the problems in the US with issues over-promoted by the jewish lobbies (Israel, social radicalism, interventionism, suppression of dissent), but the reality is that it has always been the far greater numbers of evangelical Christians in the US who have been the real enablers and the real obstruction to addressing them.

    No, I had my suspicions, but I wasn’t certain. I like to be accurate, probably not a concern for you, but it is for me.

    You are a crafty and verbose sort.

    I make my views clear, but I don’t let you write my views for me. You try your best with your dishonest antisemite witch-finding, of course, to use the usual antiracist/anti-antiSemite etc lie conflating criticism with hatred.

    But it’s an old act, getting lamer by the day.

    Read More
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  34. Theoretically, the US should if anything gain financially, because it is the only country in the world (along with Eritrea) to claim taxes on the worldwide income of their citizens. I say theoretically, because in practice, I am sure that virtually no child of birth tourists is going to be doing that.

    They’d be ignoring this requirement at their own peril. If they get rich, they could find their assets seized, and an international arrest warrant issued, even if they never set foot again in the US after their birth. US citizenship is put on a pedestal, but if you don’t live there it has some very serious down sides.

    I remember some Russian idiot bragging to me on the chairlift about how his wife gave birth in the US and his kid got automatic citizenship. I proceeded to explain to him the immense responsibility he had just saddled the kid with, it was funny watching him go ashen white. He didn’t know, and hadn’t even thought about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    If said kid becomes a billionaire, sure, that's likely.

    Otherwise, I would think that the chances of serious problems accruing from this converge to zero.

    That said, given your background, I am sure you are better versed than I am in the details.
    , @LondonBob
    The African born Indian I know has renounced his US citizenship, huge liability as he is from one of the super rich Indian families that dominate the African economy.
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  35. @JL

    Theoretically, the US should if anything gain financially, because it is the only country in the world (along with Eritrea) to claim taxes on the worldwide income of their citizens. I say theoretically, because in practice, I am sure that virtually no child of birth tourists is going to be doing that.
     
    They'd be ignoring this requirement at their own peril. If they get rich, they could find their assets seized, and an international arrest warrant issued, even if they never set foot again in the US after their birth. US citizenship is put on a pedestal, but if you don't live there it has some very serious down sides.

    I remember some Russian idiot bragging to me on the chairlift about how his wife gave birth in the US and his kid got automatic citizenship. I proceeded to explain to him the immense responsibility he had just saddled the kid with, it was funny watching him go ashen white. He didn't know, and hadn't even thought about it.

    If said kid becomes a billionaire, sure, that’s likely.

    Otherwise, I would think that the chances of serious problems accruing from this converge to zero.

    That said, given your background, I am sure you are better versed than I am in the details.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    Otherwise, I would think that the chances of serious problems accruing from this converge to zero.

    Ask Boris Johnson about this, as he was hit with a major US capital gains tax from selling his London home.

    More to the point, perhaps, many European banks and other financial institutions will no longer do business with US citizens. For my children, who were born abroad (and are US citizens), this is probably not too much of a problem, since there is nothing in their (non-US) passport that indicates that they are US citizens; for a Russian "tourist" baby this would be an altogether different matter, as presumably their Russian passport clearly indicates that they were born in the US.
    , @Dmitry
    I do not know from personal experience, or have much knowledge on the subject. But I think even normal-earning people with a 'green card' have to be careful - at least with double taxation issues, as the United States tax authorities seem to have reputation for being brutal on these issues. I have a (not even property owning) brother who has been working in the United States, is very concerned with these issues - even has been told something about having to continue to file taxes with United States authorities if he leaves the country.
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  36. @Randal
    The idea that just because a baby's parents happened to be visiting a country when it was born it should be entitled to claim that nationality does seem like exactly what you describe it as - sentimental rot.

    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers, but it makes no sense even in America today.

    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers, but it makes no sense even in America today.

    Logical, but perhaps historically not entirely factual. Jus soli does not seem to have become firmly established in the US until the passage of the 14th Amendment after the Civil War. If you look up all the arguments in support of jus soli, they always refer back to this text, which essentially reversed the 1857 Dred Scott decision in which the US Supreme Court held that “African Americans” born in the US, even if free, were not US citizens.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    That's a fair point, though mine was indeed about the logic of the situation rather than the legal or historical basis.
    , @German_reader
    Which is just as idiotic though. Black freedmen had no other nationality and nowhere elso to go, very different situation from illegal immigrants or birth tourists and their offspring.
    , @Alden
    You are right. It’s the 14th amendment that made everyone born in the US a citizen
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  37. @iffen
    one of the biggest problems facing their country.

    You read too much Unz.

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.

    We just recognized JERUSALEM as the capital of Israel.

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.

    People love jews as much as people loved Stalin, it is part fear and part ignorance. Jews are a remarkably unlikable people, there is a reason that they have been so hated throughout history, obviously you being jew will blame the world, the jews themselves can never be blamed for this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I would like iffen more if he were a Jew. I expect Jews to praise Jews, I don't expect them to loath themselves or something. A Jew who praises his own people is at least mentally in the normal range. A gentile white who praises Jews has no self respect. Therefore he's not quite worthy of my respect either.
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  38. @for-the-record
    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers, but it makes no sense even in America today.

    Logical, but perhaps historically not entirely factual. Jus soli does not seem to have become firmly established in the US until the passage of the 14th Amendment after the Civil War. If you look up all the arguments in support of jus soli, they always refer back to this text, which essentially reversed the 1857 Dred Scott decision in which the US Supreme Court held that "African Americans" born in the US, even if free, were not US citizens.

    That’s a fair point, though mine was indeed about the logic of the situation rather than the legal or historical basis.

    Read More
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  39. @neutral

    We love our Jews, they are not a problem; they are an asset.
     
    People love jews as much as people loved Stalin, it is part fear and part ignorance. Jews are a remarkably unlikable people, there is a reason that they have been so hated throughout history, obviously you being jew will blame the world, the jews themselves can never be blamed for this.

    I would like iffen more if he were a Jew. I expect Jews to praise Jews, I don’t expect them to loath themselves or something. A Jew who praises his own people is at least mentally in the normal range. A gentile white who praises Jews has no self respect. Therefore he’s not quite worthy of my respect either.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    A gentile white who praises Jews has no self respect. Therefore he’s not quite worthy of my respect either.
     
    In fairness, he's most likely just as much an indoctrinated victim of his upbringing as any muslim or other fanatic. I assume you are most likely familiar with the biblical origins of the US evangelical base for the Israel Lobby, but if not then the piece I linked in a reply above points in the right direction:

    Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?

    A more detailed treatment is here:

    THE ARMAGEDDON LOBBY: DISPENSATIONALIST CHRISTIAN ZIONISM AND THE
    SHAPING OF US POLICY TOWARDS ISRAEL-PALESTINE

    Personally, I don't have a problem with him praising jews so much as with his enthusiastic collaboration with the basic anti-Semitism lie.

    , @iffen
    #21 last line
    #23 last 2 lines
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  40. @for-the-record
    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers, but it makes no sense even in America today.

    Logical, but perhaps historically not entirely factual. Jus soli does not seem to have become firmly established in the US until the passage of the 14th Amendment after the Civil War. If you look up all the arguments in support of jus soli, they always refer back to this text, which essentially reversed the 1857 Dred Scott decision in which the US Supreme Court held that "African Americans" born in the US, even if free, were not US citizens.

    Which is just as idiotic though. Black freedmen had no other nationality and nowhere elso to go, very different situation from illegal immigrants or birth tourists and their offspring.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    Which is just as idiotic though. Black freedmen had no other nationality and nowhere elso to go, very different situation from illegal immigrants or birth tourists and their offspring.

    Of course it was idiotic, I wasn't implying the contrary. My point was simply that the notion of jus soli is not as firmly ingrained in American history and tradition as most people seem to assume.

    , @iffen
    very different situation from illegal immigrants or birth tourists and their offspring.

    I missed the comments defending birth tourism.

    Black freedmen had no other nationality and nowhere elso to go,

    Where is a 25 year old American born to illegal migrants supposed to go? How can it be fair to expect them to leave the only country that they have known?
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  41. @Anatoly Karlin
    If said kid becomes a billionaire, sure, that's likely.

    Otherwise, I would think that the chances of serious problems accruing from this converge to zero.

    That said, given your background, I am sure you are better versed than I am in the details.

    Otherwise, I would think that the chances of serious problems accruing from this converge to zero.

    Ask Boris Johnson about this, as he was hit with a major US capital gains tax from selling his London home.

    More to the point, perhaps, many European banks and other financial institutions will no longer do business with US citizens. For my children, who were born abroad (and are US citizens), this is probably not too much of a problem, since there is nothing in their (non-US) passport that indicates that they are US citizens; for a Russian “tourist” baby this would be an altogether different matter, as presumably their Russian passport clearly indicates that they were born in the US.

    Read More
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  42. @reiner Tor
    I would like iffen more if he were a Jew. I expect Jews to praise Jews, I don't expect them to loath themselves or something. A Jew who praises his own people is at least mentally in the normal range. A gentile white who praises Jews has no self respect. Therefore he's not quite worthy of my respect either.

    A gentile white who praises Jews has no self respect. Therefore he’s not quite worthy of my respect either.

    In fairness, he’s most likely just as much an indoctrinated victim of his upbringing as any muslim or other fanatic. I assume you are most likely familiar with the biblical origins of the US evangelical base for the Israel Lobby, but if not then the piece I linked in a reply above points in the right direction:

    Why Don’t Jews Like the Christians Who Like Them?

    A more detailed treatment is here:

    THE ARMAGEDDON LOBBY: DISPENSATIONALIST CHRISTIAN ZIONISM AND THE
    SHAPING OF US POLICY TOWARDS ISRAEL-PALESTINE

    Personally, I don’t have a problem with him praising jews so much as with his enthusiastic collaboration with the basic anti-Semitism lie.

    Read More
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  43. @reiner Tor
    I would like iffen more if he were a Jew. I expect Jews to praise Jews, I don't expect them to loath themselves or something. A Jew who praises his own people is at least mentally in the normal range. A gentile white who praises Jews has no self respect. Therefore he's not quite worthy of my respect either.

    #21 last line
    #23 last 2 lines

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  44. @German_reader
    Which is just as idiotic though. Black freedmen had no other nationality and nowhere elso to go, very different situation from illegal immigrants or birth tourists and their offspring.

    Which is just as idiotic though. Black freedmen had no other nationality and nowhere elso to go, very different situation from illegal immigrants or birth tourists and their offspring.

    Of course it was idiotic, I wasn’t implying the contrary. My point was simply that the notion of jus soli is not as firmly ingrained in American history and tradition as most people seem to assume.

    Read More
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  45. @Anatoly Karlin
    If said kid becomes a billionaire, sure, that's likely.

    Otherwise, I would think that the chances of serious problems accruing from this converge to zero.

    That said, given your background, I am sure you are better versed than I am in the details.

    I do not know from personal experience, or have much knowledge on the subject. But I think even normal-earning people with a ‘green card’ have to be careful – at least with double taxation issues, as the United States tax authorities seem to have reputation for being brutal on these issues. I have a (not even property owning) brother who has been working in the United States, is very concerned with these issues – even has been told something about having to continue to file taxes with United States authorities if he leaves the country.

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    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
    Yes, I live in Germany and have file annually with the IRS. On the bright side, there is a standard $100,000 exemption for money earned abroad. But if I ever made more than that, I would have to renounce my US citizenship and become a citizen here.
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  46. @German_reader
    Which is just as idiotic though. Black freedmen had no other nationality and nowhere elso to go, very different situation from illegal immigrants or birth tourists and their offspring.

    very different situation from illegal immigrants or birth tourists and their offspring.

    I missed the comments defending birth tourism.

    Black freedmen had no other nationality and nowhere elso to go,

    Where is a 25 year old American born to illegal migrants supposed to go? How can it be fair to expect them to leave the only country that they have known?

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    • Replies: @German_reader

    Where is a 25 year old American born to illegal migrants supposed to go?
     
    You avoid such situations by enforcing the law and deporting illegal immigrants before they've stayed in the country for decades.
    Mere presence in a country, especially if it's the result of illegal infiltration, shouldn't be enough to get citizenship and political rights.
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  47. @iffen
    very different situation from illegal immigrants or birth tourists and their offspring.

    I missed the comments defending birth tourism.

    Black freedmen had no other nationality and nowhere elso to go,

    Where is a 25 year old American born to illegal migrants supposed to go? How can it be fair to expect them to leave the only country that they have known?

    Where is a 25 year old American born to illegal migrants supposed to go?

    You avoid such situations by enforcing the law and deporting illegal immigrants before they’ve stayed in the country for decades.
    Mere presence in a country, especially if it’s the result of illegal infiltration, shouldn’t be enough to get citizenship and political rights.

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  48. @Miro23

    Reached for comment, Nehlen told CNN, "Putting America First above all other nations, such as being pro-wall and for freedom of lawful speech, has brought a coordinated attack by globalists from both parties; nevertheless I will continue to stand strong against anti-American sentiment, however it manifests."
     
    It's interesting to see how this works out. Unlike Trump, Nehlen has chosen not to collaborate, while Breitbart is showing its true colours in "Unpersoning" him as fast as they can.

    But Breitbart and Bannon recently severed ties with Nehlen. Schwartz told CNN the decision was made earlier this month after Bannon was alerted that Nehlen had appeared on a white nationalist podcast.
     
    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/27/media/paul-nehlen-steve-bannon-breitbart/index.html

    Breitbart is an Israeli site.

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    • Replies: @Miro23

    Breitbart is an Israeli site.
     
    No doubt that it's pro-Israel but it's also 100% pro-Trump and collects together most of his base.

    But they still get conflicted on ME wars - half of them protest against the cost and uselessness, and the other half shout about killing the "ragheads", "supporting the military" and ditching the UN.

    Few of them criticise the Zionist lobby and Israel, although it's hard to say, since Breitbart seem to be using some sort of automatic keyword identification and comment deletion.

    One thing for sure is that Trump and Bannon can have their differences but they are still full Zionist collaborators.
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  49. @JL

    Theoretically, the US should if anything gain financially, because it is the only country in the world (along with Eritrea) to claim taxes on the worldwide income of their citizens. I say theoretically, because in practice, I am sure that virtually no child of birth tourists is going to be doing that.
     
    They'd be ignoring this requirement at their own peril. If they get rich, they could find their assets seized, and an international arrest warrant issued, even if they never set foot again in the US after their birth. US citizenship is put on a pedestal, but if you don't live there it has some very serious down sides.

    I remember some Russian idiot bragging to me on the chairlift about how his wife gave birth in the US and his kid got automatic citizenship. I proceeded to explain to him the immense responsibility he had just saddled the kid with, it was funny watching him go ashen white. He didn't know, and hadn't even thought about it.

    The African born Indian I know has renounced his US citizenship, huge liability as he is from one of the super rich Indian families that dominate the African economy.

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  50. @Anatoly Karlin
    Only people to live by those moral grounds - denizens of the Americas.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Jus_soli_world.svg/1200px-Jus_soli_world.svg.png

    Clearly a result of them being unpopulated at the time their Constitutions were being written, a consideration which has long ceased to apply.

    I don’t believe we actually had birthright citizenship until the passage of the 14th Amendment in 1868. The amendment’s wording (“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States …”) has been interpreted by the courts to apply to the whole world, rather than just to the ex-slaves of the South, as I am sure it was originally intended to do.

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    • Agree: Alden
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  51. @Dmitry
    I do not know from personal experience, or have much knowledge on the subject. But I think even normal-earning people with a 'green card' have to be careful - at least with double taxation issues, as the United States tax authorities seem to have reputation for being brutal on these issues. I have a (not even property owning) brother who has been working in the United States, is very concerned with these issues - even has been told something about having to continue to file taxes with United States authorities if he leaves the country.

    Yes, I live in Germany and have file annually with the IRS. On the bright side, there is a standard $100,000 exemption for money earned abroad. But if I ever made more than that, I would have to renounce my US citizenship and become a citizen here.

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  52. @for-the-record
    It probably made sense when the US was still a settler colonial state seeking people to fill up the empty lands it had taken from the former occupiers, but it makes no sense even in America today.

    Logical, but perhaps historically not entirely factual. Jus soli does not seem to have become firmly established in the US until the passage of the 14th Amendment after the Civil War. If you look up all the arguments in support of jus soli, they always refer back to this text, which essentially reversed the 1857 Dred Scott decision in which the US Supreme Court held that "African Americans" born in the US, even if free, were not US citizens.

    You are right. It’s the 14th amendment that made everyone born in the US a citizen

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  53. @LondonBob
    Breitbart is an Israeli site.

    Breitbart is an Israeli site.

    No doubt that it’s pro-Israel but it’s also 100% pro-Trump and collects together most of his base.

    But they still get conflicted on ME wars – half of them protest against the cost and uselessness, and the other half shout about killing the “ragheads”, “supporting the military” and ditching the UN.

    Few of them criticise the Zionist lobby and Israel, although it’s hard to say, since Breitbart seem to be using some sort of automatic keyword identification and comment deletion.

    One thing for sure is that Trump and Bannon can have their differences but they are still full Zionist collaborators.

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  54. @German_reader

    Suck it up, GR.
     
    Are you now starting to imitate "Art Deco" with his penchant for such retarded, pseudo-tough one-liners? Anyway, I'm the last person to deny that Germany's immigration and asylum policies have been completely insane for a long time (though the "guest worker" programme actually worked just fine with Southern Europeans who kept to the deal; just was a grave mistake to extend it to Turks).

    Oh i guess Germans have fond memories on YUgo people now.

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    Oh i guess Germans have fond memories on YUgo people now.
     
    Of course, there are lots of people with names ending in -ic in Germany, and on the whole there aren't any serious problems. Albanians have a bad reputation as criminals, but then that's probably the case everywhere.
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  55. @iffen
    I have adhered to the rule of not commenting on your comments and asked for the same. I remind you that it was originally your suggestion.

    I wish for this to be a one-off exception. This in spite of the fact that I agree with many of your comments.

    Why is it less moral to tell the baby’s parents that he has a claim upon THEIR country?

    Because I look at it from the baby’s point of view. I am reluctant to visit the sins of the parents upon the child.

    The white male and Asian female pairings, especially among the older generations, include a large fraction of poorly matched couples of disparate backgrounds.

    Where do you get off claiming Korean war brides and American servicemen were mis-matched? We can’t all be supermen and superwomen. Do you have facts that show those marriages were less stable than the norm?

    Since you are following this thread and have comments from actual WNs interspersed with mine, do you still maintain that I am a WN?

    I have adhered to the rule of not commenting on your comments and asked for the same. I remind you that it was originally your suggestion.

    Sorry. Forgot who you were. I don’t keep track of most commenters.

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  56. @Anonymous
    Oh i guess Germans have fond memories on YUgo people now.

    Oh i guess Germans have fond memories on YUgo people now.

    Of course, there are lots of people with names ending in -ic in Germany, and on the whole there aren’t any serious problems. Albanians have a bad reputation as criminals, but then that’s probably the case everywhere.

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  57. Wow, BT Samuel is pretty based for a black chick

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  58. Great site you have here but I was curious about if you knew of any discussion boards that cover the same topics discussed in this article?

    I’d really love to be a part of community where I can get responses from other knowledgeable people that share the same interest.
    If you have any suggestions, please let me know.
    Cheers!

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