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The State of the Altsphere (September 2018)
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altsphere-visits-2018-september

Visits to alt media portals (via Similar Web). Sites I am particularly interested in are highlighted.

The Unz Review has continued to do very well, surging well ahead of other competitors in the “alt media” (LewRockwell, Takimag, Marginal Revolution, TruthDig, TruthOut, Antiwar, VDare, Mondoweiss). We are now essentially level pegging with both The American Conservative (which we can thank for this site’s existence) and Counterpunch, who are our main “competitors” on the Right and the Left, respectively.

Here is the Alexa data for The Unz Review for the past year:

altsphere-2018-alexa-unz

While TAC has surged ahead for some reason in the past couple of months, this is not reflected in the Alexa data, where we continue to do slightly better.

altsphere-2018-alexa-tac

altsphere-2018-alexa-counterpunch

Although some commenters have expressed concern about the direction of the site, especially the American Pravda series, these concerns don’t seem to be panning out.

For my own part, this has been a rather successful year to date.

Items PWords Comms CWords Visits Views
2008 70 139,021 304 37,218
2009 72 254,052 867 152,868
2010 81 209,939 1,594 200,483
2011 75 152,706 3,159 406,353
2012 172 153,634 5,164 662,995
2013 167 132,173 1,986 259,421
2014 5 5,154 1,023 147,549
2015 130 156,592 5,504 664,553 128,326 382,574
2016 128 120,956 6,204 597,092 188,570 493,156
2017 262 190,137 17,326 1,808,417 237,477 791,675
2018 (Jan-Aug) 214 188,752 38,046 3,965,704 239,496 918,721

While the past year was already a record breaking year for The Russian Reaction, this blog has already seen as many visits and more than 15% as many pageviews during the first eight months of this year as during the entirety of 2017.

This August alone has seen my second highest ever visit count (April 2018 was higher) and my second higher ever pageview count (July 2018 was marginally higher).

Thanks to all you commenters making this possible. As we can see, you have already contributed TWICE as many comments and comment words in just the past eight months than during all of 2017.

Finally, some general comments on other interesting trends in the Altsphere:

Alt Right: The Daily Stormer has shrugged off the serious and repeated efforts to shut it down, in no small part, I expect, thanks to its technical talent (weev?). That said, Anglin’s claims that viewership is higher than ever – and by several multiples – seem incorrect. Even so, it plainly dominates the Alt Right. DailyStormer.com was around 11,000th in the world last year; DailyStormer.name is just 17,000th, according to Alexa. AltRight.com has not been so fortunate; it has pretty much gone dormant, just like Spencer’s old Radix Journal project. Stormfront is depleting; presumably, the stories that Don Black’s wife pulled financing for it is correct. Takimag is doing fine, but they shouldn’t have closed down the comments.

Alt Left: These sites, including Counterpunch, have somewhat declined in the past year. But otherwise no dramatic changes. I am not sure this reflects some serious organic decline – these websites are Gen X if not boomer creations, while young leftists are flocking to places like Chapo Trap House – which is a podcast, not a website. Of course the same thing must be happening on the far right. Young people are not reading long essays, they are shitposting on /pol/ and watching livestreams of racist gamers.

Alt Russophiles: Russia Insider has greatly revived this year, after reaching a temporary nadir at the start of this year. It is now far ahead of The Duran, which has continued declining, despite consolidating its other websites (e.g. Russia Feed) back to the main website.

Russosophere: After the “pogrom” of Sputnik & Pogrom, viewership collapsed, going from 1.5 million to 0.5 million per month. Crippled by Putinist censorship, they have now moved to a primarily video format, dominated by Kirill Nesterov’s video-essays (previously under our ROGPR brand) and political discussions set to video game livestreams. Growth has been very rapid, though from a low base. You can listen to one of these streams, where I participated, here [in Russian].

In my previous overview, I hailed the apparent success of Tsargrad TV, which according to SimilarWeb exploded from 2.5 million to 9 million viewers between April and September 2017. But I have since heard from a couple of former employees that they used bots to ratchet up their numbers. Indeed, their numbers kept getting more and more incredible, peaking at 34 million pageviews by April 2018, before falling back down to 11 million by July 2018.

 
• Category: Miscellaneous • Tags: Blogging, Western Media 
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  1. they have now moved to a primarily video format

    I usually browse while listening to music. I’m not going to disrupt a Mahler symphony just to listen to some podcast. Audio and video content is definitely not for me. I’d also think that it’s easier to censor multimedia content than text.

    Occasionally I browse from the office. There it’s totally out of the question to listen to audio content or even watch a video without sound.

    So I don’t like any movement away from the good old text format. Neither do I understand why anyone would like it. I doubt these are my problems only.

    • Agree: Thorfinnsson, iffen
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    , @Olorin
  2. Takimag is doing fine, but they shouldn’t have closed down the comments.

    If I were running the site I’d have closed down the comments. They were worse than useless to anyone actually looking for a conversation on the article above them. They were an embarrassment to respectable and thoughtful anti-Semites everywhere.

    As for the Alt-Left, it seems like Michael Tracey and Glenn Greenwald are getting their ideas out effectively via Twitter. Spiked online also deserves a mention. They and Quillette are helping to knock at least some centre-left people out of the groove they’ve been stuck in since the ’90s.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  3. @reiner Tor

    Podcasts work well for people who commute or who do work that requires their bodies but not their minds. That being said, a lot of the political content put out via video streams and podcasts is dross.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Rosie
  4. Russosophere: After the “pogrom” of Sputnik & Pogrom, viewership collapsed, going from 1.5 million to 0.5 million per month. Crippled by Putinist censorship

    In other news Telegram wants to make a deal with the FSB, as its userbase is reportedly declining in Russia.

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3701472

    This just shows that crude internet censorship works: most people are too lazy to use VPN.

    • Replies: @5371
  5. @Cagey Beast

    Very encouraging, I had no idea Quillette was doing so well; viewership is similar to that of The Unz Review (I would have guessed an order of magnitude lower).

    Congrats to Claire Lehmann.

    Probably the highest quality*crimethink*viewership site on the Internet?

    • Agree: Dave Pinsen
  6. I already had a bone to pick with Taki’s Mag for two reasons:

    1 – Default format splits articles into multiple pages, which is unnecessary and offensive

    2 – Steve Sailer insists on publishing pieces there which are not carried on the Unz Review, forcing me to navigate to another website for no reason

    But now that they’ve shut down comments they can go to hell. There is NO NEED WHATSOEVER to moderate comments. This is an invented burden by censorious cowards, typically over 40 or under 25 and thus unaware of how the internet is supposed to be. Don’t like a comment? Keep scrolling.

    All sites which do not have comments should boycotted. Web 1.0 sites from 20 years ago that never had comments to begin with get a pass.

    • Replies: @songbird
  7. DFH says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Probably the highest quality*crimethink*viewership site on the Internet?

    Really? All of the articles I’ve read there make points that are obvious to anyone with eyes and/or defer constantly to cuck morality. I might as well read the edgier columnists in the Spectator. They have had one or two good articles on trannyism though, and I suppose it is a good start.

  8. Quillette is extremely boring. It serves a useful niche in presenting crimethink to the sort of boring dweebs who actually pay money to read the Ecommunist and find this site to be OFFENSIVE.

    Current promoted article: https://quillette.com/2018/09/01/identity-politics-is-doing-more-harm-than-good-to-minorities/

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @neutral
    , @DFH
    , @Anonymous
  9. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    There is NO NEED WHATSOEVER to moderate comments.

    I assumed it had something to do with advertisements and that Ron Unz has deeper pockets than Taki or something.

    I share the moral outrage though. It seems to me that it should be particularly embarrassing for an organization like the BBC, which collects public money through sanctioned force, but which often denies the public any opportunity to give it public scrutiny.

    It should be circumvented somehow through technology. A free-speech browser which lets you post comments. Of course, someone would have to host them.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  10. neutral says:

    I don’t think American Conservative can be considered alt anything, they are not the pro war neocon type, but other than that they are pretty mainstream.

    • Agree: Anarcho-Supremacist
  11. neutral says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    who actually pay money to read the Ecommunist

    I deeply regret paying money to that fanatically anti white outlet once. I can’t think of any other main media mouthpiece I disagree with more and loathe more.

    • Replies: @Fidelios Automata
  12. DFH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Have you read the comments? Boomers must be one of history’s dullest generations.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  13. @DFH

    Yes, the Takimag comments were particularly dumb.

  14. songbird says:
    @Cagey Beast

    a lot of the political content put out via video streams and podcasts is dross.

    Very true. Too much of it is quantity above quality. I think short format is where it can really shine though because personality can come through better than in print.

    There are other advantages implicit in video. Young women can leverage their looks to gain eyeballs. That means the message can have more traction. It is also more reactive to the culture at large, which is no longer one of print.

    Television has basically collapsed, IMO, but there is still a need for something to supplant what remains. That is video on demand, and from the bootstraps it might pull itself upward into something more refined.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  15. Serrice says:

    Glad to say that in my own little country we have a growing alt-publication; the Burkean Journal. Some interesting articles on Russia in it.

    https://burkeanjournal.com

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Anarcho-Supremacist
  16. DFH says:
    @Serrice

    I am glad that such a publication is succesful in Ireland, but personally I would not have named it after an Ascendancy cuckservative.

    • Replies: @Serrice
    , @Cagey Beast
  17. Serrice says:
    @DFH

    He has positive connotations, good name recognition etc. Some of the articles go far beyond cuckservatism thankfully.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
  18. @Anatoly Karlin

    Is American Conservative alt anything anymore? Shoot the only alt ideas they have are “Why Conservatives need to cry more on MLK day”

    Why you consider LewRockwell(LRC) “Alt-Left” seems very bizarre to me. Shoot I bet quit a few alt lefty websites would consider Rockwell a far right extremist.

    • Replies: @Jayce
    , @Talha
  19. @neutral

    Shoot the only alt ideas they have are “Why Conservatives need to cry more on MLK day”

  20. Jayce says:
    @Anarcho-Supremacist

    Last time I checked it was just Rod Dreher’s gay little blog about how rednecks used to give him wedgies back in the day and why true trads could never support Drumpf.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  21. @Serrice

    Yall need to get Dave Cullen(YT channel “Computing Forever”) to promote that website.

  22. @Jayce

    Even this take is more praise than Dreher deserves. It’s just endless Papist dreck.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  23. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird

    I’m all for blowing away commentary threating violence and demanding elimination of this and that, it’s cro-magnon, obnoxious and drives people away. The usual “they are going to get what they deserve because…” story can still be scrolled over.

    That being said, the BBC hails from Blighty, so they are under pressure to follow extreme Hate Speech and Libel Laws of the UK (and I think Antisex Laws, too). This is evidently also the case for most of Europe. Don’t bother to write commentary for any “mainstream” nu-ews site, you WILL be squelched. (Redpilling commentary on BCC? You be taking the piss) I suppose most “commentary cleaners” are 20-year old undeveloped and underpaid flowers trying to filter teh Nazis from their college dormitory, or they are otherwise so far gone that just the mention of “Trump” triggers them and causes them to burst out into the discussion like a particularly evil worm emerging from hyperspace (isn’t it, [email protected]?)

  24. Rosie says:
    @Cagey Beast

    Podcasts work well for people who commute or who do work that requires their bodies but not their minds.

    Like housework, grocery shopping, etc.

    And then there are times when you need to be able to see but not hear, like at at a kid’s soccer game.

    • Agree: Cagey Beast
  25. I’m keen to know the aggregate numbers of readers of alt media over time. My general sense is that it’s steadily growing, particularly of high quality material such as at Unz, as opposed to CIA/Mossad/whatever funded psyop material at Daily Stormer. Impossible to trust their numbers.

    • Replies: @neutral
  26. neutral says:
    @Dan Bagrov

    CIA/Mossad/whatever funded psyop material at Daily Stormer

    If the jews were really funding DailyStormer, then they would not have tried to remove it from the internet in the first place.

  27. @DFH

    Burke is rightly considered Irish by the irish themselves and he would only be considered cucky by those who liked the way the French Revolution went.

  28. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Yes, Quillette is boring and rarely insightful. Yet, it serves a very useful purpose. One has to start somewhere and to many on the left, the semi-respectable Quillette offers a first taste of anything unPC.

  29. @neutral

    Well, it’s not like even the most paranoid anti-Semites claim that ALL Jews are in on the conspiracy.

    If any of the white nationalists turn out to actually be CIA, what you would expect to see is that they’d get mass reported and banned from various sites by flaggers and moderators who are not aware that the person is an agent and not a real white nationalist. Then CIA headquarters would make some phonecalls and inform the site owner that the person should be un-banned.

    This doesn’t describe Andrew Anglin very well but it sure does fit how Richard Spencer and David Duke get treated by internet companies. They get frequently banned from some site and then later they show up back with no explanation as to why they’re suddenly acceptable again.

  30. @songbird

    Too much of it is quantity above quality.

    The best podcasts use the techniques radio settled on by the mid-1960s:
    - They edit down the conversations, at least a little.
    - They let one of the hosts present a segment with few or no interuptions
    - They add a little bit of bridge music or sound effect to tell the audience the topic is changing.

    There are other advantages implicit in video. Young women can leverage their looks to gain eyeballs.

    Everybody likes pretty and cheerful young women. Lauren Southern got more doors opened and did more good in the last few years than any guy her age could have done.

    Television has basically collapsed, IMO, but there is still a need for something to supplant what remains. That is video on demand, and from the bootstraps it might pull itself upward into something more refined.

    Yes, even if YouTube inevitably goes down the route of more and more bannings, smart content creators will still be able to slide in stuff that would never be allowed on TV. The television era is thankfully over.

    • Agree: songbird
  31. Rosie says:
    @neutral

    If the jews were really funding DailyStormer, then they would not have tried to remove it from the internet in the first place.

    I’m not sure it’s that simple. If I were a Jew, I would attempt both strategies. BTW, I’m not sure Anglin would even know it if Jews were funding him. Suppose you’re a Jew with a few grand to blow? How would undermine the alt-Right? Go to the most extreme site, make yourself untouchable by making large donations, and proceed to egg the extremists on even further.

    All that said, I’m not sure the existence of the DS is a problem. I would rather see the incel/MGTOW segregated in their own ghetto, so long as they are not dragging down the rest of the movement with them.

    • Replies: @iffen
  32. iffen says:
    @Rosie

    If I were a Jew, I would attempt both strategies.

    Little known fact: Jews invented hedging. It has worked quite well for them, politically and financially.

    so long as they are not dragging down the rest of the movement with them.

    Got yourself a movement, do you?

  33. Twinkie says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Even this take is more praise than Dreher deserves. It’s just endless Papist dreck.

    Dreher is Eastern Orthodox. We Papist drecks don’t think too kindly of his apostasy.

    • Replies: @Dan Bagrov
  34. Excal says:

    The reason for American Conservative’s surge may be the latest round of scandals in the Roman Catholic Church. Rod Dreher’s “told-you-so” commentary has been widely cited, and I wonder whether that’s not the major draw over there these days.

  35. Oh come on.

    According to Alexa.com over 5% of Unz.com’s traffic comes from ‘Sudan’. That’s nothing compared to theSaker.is where almost 10% of the traffic comes from ‘Sudan’.

    Apparently if you’ve got a pro-Russian website you’ll get a lot of traffic routed through Khartoum (and maybe elsewhere). Can’t imagine what’s really going on-I’m so naive.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  36. Would y’all consider Roosh V Forum, and its spinoff blog, Return of Kings, to be part of the altsphere? Wonder how popular its actually becoming.

    • Replies: @Dan Bagrov
    , @Daniel Chieh
  37. @Jaakko Raipala

    David Duke is obviously a media creation now whether he is a media invention is up for debate and is a bit conspiratorial. By creation I mean the media reports him despite the fact that he is irrelevant. A creation would mean he is a fake character or actor maybe even a fed.

    Spencer has all but admitted the only reason he came to prominence was because the media started reporting on him before the election to discredit Trump.

  38. Matra says:
    @neutral

    I think it’s funny that Daniel Larison can make a living as a writer. Even when he had his own blog about ten years ago it took him five wordy paragraphs just to clear his throat. He hasn’t improved one iota since then. He’s the David Broder of his generation.

  39. Talha says:
    @Anarcho-Supremacist

    Agreed on LewRockwell – absolutely no way it could be considered Leftist; they are hard core Libertarians. Big on small (or no) government, right to bear arms, very anti-interventionist, etc.

    Peace.

    • Agree: Anarcho-Supremacist
    • Replies: @Fidelios Automata
  40. @anony-mouse

    It means that a lot of people are using VPN, which is pretty common. Probably all of the Chinese visitors are, even though Unz is not on any sort of ban list. Its just a habit.

  41. @neutral

    Agreed. At one time they sounded quasi-libertarian and I was a subscriber for several years. When the drumbeat for the Iraq War began in 2002 they revealed their true identity as neoliberal corporatist scumbags. I wish they’d go under, but with the Rothschilds funding them, that seems unlikely.
    The same goes for the Koch Brothers’ vile Cato Institute, which I also once supported.
    Reason Magazine still has a few sane voices, but it seems to have mostly gone the way of the other two. The fact that they took seriously the lying SJW charges of racism against Ron Paul caused me to lose all respect for them.

  42. @Talha

    LRC is one of the few great libertarian sites still out there, though I now virulently disagree with the open borders sentiment of some of their writers. At least they hold this position out of what they see as intellectual consistency rather than anti-white animus.

  43. @neutral

    This is how cover works, go after your asset in a way they can survive to give them credibility. We know for certain Weev is Jewish based on his extreme shortness, high IQ, facial features and hair, as well as all the direct claims by his mother and of hasbara work. Classic fake Nazi, many such cases.

    There’s no doubt the far right is heavily infiltrated and socially engineered. It’s just a matter of putting your Stalin sense to work to sniff them out and DS stinks!

    • Replies: @WHAT
  44. @AquariusAnon

    It is low IQ and click baity “top 5 reasons girls SUCK” and so on, but I would consider it alt media. Perhaps not fit for inclusion in Karlin’s list, due to further mucking up the graph

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  45. @Twinkie

    Orthodox Americans are generally embarrassed by him. He should have stayed Papist

  46. Talha says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    Exactly my point. In practically no position that they take can be cast as Left. Even the positions that coincide come from a different philosophical background.

    Peace.

  47. Talha says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    -The trolling is strong in this one…
    -Arise, Sir Trollfinnsson!

    Peace.

  48. Ron Unz says:

    Very interesting. I’ve periodically checked Alexa rankings for the last few years, but have never used SimilarWeb and I don’t have a clue how it works.

    Assuming the left-axis is monthly pageviews, the numbers displayed for our website are around 20-30% too low based on our true traffic figures. It’s also odd that it seems to somewhat disagree with the Alexa figures, and I’m a little shocked you say it’s so vulnerable to crude cheating like with that TsarGradTV website.

    As for TAC, back in 2013 almost half their traffic came from Dreher, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s even higher these days. I rarely visit the website, but when I have, usually 4 or 5 of the 5 most popular articles are by Dreher, although currently Syd Schanberg’s great 2010 piece on McCain is temporarily on top, which is quite unusual.

  49. @Jaakko Raipala

    Richard Spencer

    I’m not a big fan of the guy (I rarely read anything from him), but he got punched in the face and they came after his mother. So he must get hefty compensation for it to be worth for him. I think he’s an unwitting tool who believes that he can use the media.

    Where did he get banned and let back? I only know about Twitter. But interestingly Jack Dorsey seems to be one of the very few self-aware leftist zillionaires, he has talked a number of times about the desirability and perhaps even hypocrisy of leftist censorship. Of course, this could be just psyop.

  50. @Thorfinnsson

    Eight Game Lessons from Boko Haram

    :DDDD

  51. People accusing the Daily Stormer of being CIA shills are either CIA shills or at best misguided. Do you even read it? Anglin constantly advises against doing anything stupid and illegal and against ruining your life. What extremism? Being extremely funny? Well they are guilty of that I guess.

    It truly is “the most censored publication in history”, and for good reason. They are a threat to the anti-white establishment. Their model works. All the bitter truths, all the inconsistencies in the mainstream narrative exposed by the shocking humor inevitably redpill the people who start reading it ironically in the beginning.

    If it wasn’t censored all the time its audience would have been enormous now. If people could freely share links to it on social media, we would live in a different world already.
    This is why the efforts to shut it down were so extreme.

    And the DS survived, not so much because of weev’s technical skills but because of the sheer persistence of Anglin, who continued to buy new domains and write articles and look for ways to get past the censorship – he distributed pdf copies via Gab and encouraged people to share them for example, which is obviously something of so little use, yet he put the work to do anything that might help, no matter how small. He fought tooth and nail and he won.

    • Replies: @WHAT
    , @DFH
    , @weev
  52. WHAT says:
    @Dan Bagrov

    Weev is not just a suspicious jew, he`s a willing neocohen tool based in Kiev and bragging how he “hates Russians” and even “killed some”, which of course translates to mundane snitching. It is probable that he helped Anglin with the technical side of DS, because your connection to it is not encrypted in any way.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
    , @weev
  53. WHAT says:
    @Spisarevski

    Weev is transparently a niggers glowing in the dark creature. Anglin therefore is suspect by association.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
    , @neutral
  54. @Serrice

    Funny how a grand old Whig has become a symbol of cuckservatives everywhere.

  55. would you consider naked capitalism to be alt-left alt-media? where do they fit into all this?

    ive noticed that lately they haven’t been gunshy about linking unz articles and authors, albeit with the occasional ‘ugh crazy rightwingers got one right’ disclaimer

  56. @WHAT

    Weev is transparently a niggers glowing in the dark creature. Anglin therefore is suspect by association.

    I actually agree with that (I am not 100% sure about weev but I strongly suspect it), but at the same time, a tree is judged by its fruits, and Anglin could be naive regarding weev, or he could have suspicions as well but is keeping weev until he stops being useful or reveals himself. In any case the Daily Stormer is a good thing and unless they are playing a very long con, I don’t see how its existence could be useful for the CIAniggers.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  57. @WHAT

    Weev is not just a suspicious jew, he`s a willing neocohen tool based in Kiev and bragging how he “hates Russians” and even “killed some”, which of course translates to mundane snitching. It is probable that he helped Anglin with the technical side of DS, because your connection to it is not encrypted in any way.

    Before that, he lived in Abhazia which actually made me wonder if he could have become a Russian asset.
    His position on Russia is more nuanced, for example he said that he supports Putin in Syria and most of his foreign policy and claims that he doesn’t hate Russians, that his friends in Harkov are ethnic Russians, etc, but that he is just against their “aggression” in Ukraine.

    I am not going to defend him, obviously this is not defensible. Besides the giant red flag of being pro-Ukraine, having a Jewish appearance and voice while claiming to be white is also suspicious.

    But I am just giving him the benefit of the doubt, as he is after all an American so he could simply be ignorant about the local history and so on, and also Ukrainians are larpers like himself so he may find that appealing. The time in prison could have fucked him in the head. I don’t know.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  58. @Spisarevski

    Sometimes intelligence services’ actions are dumb as a rock. For example Operation Fast and Furious managed to get two thousand firearms to the Mexican cartels, the majority of which was never recovered, and they never even managed to get one high level conviction. They were, apparently, too clever by half, or as we call it here, 666D chess or mnogokhodovka. (I’m lazy to search for it, I hope I wrote the Russian word correctly.) Some kind of similar multi-dimensional chess might be happening here with Anglin.

    I think something similar might’ve happened to the German NPD. They tried to control it and eventually have the party banned, so they started spying on it, to the point that a very large portion of the party leadership were informers. One problem was that the informers might’ve been genuine right wing people who basically as much used the intelligence service as it used them, taking money to say and do things (as “provocations”) which they’d have done anyway, all the while enjoying the protection accorded to them by their informer status, and meanwhile the sheer number of informers made it impossible to have the party banned. It’s not clear if that outcome was what the intelligence services wanted at all. Though you might argue that they wanted a fake right wing party with no chance of winning elections, but on the other hand, the existence of such a party makes it more difficult to ban a more moderate party (like the AfD), and actually could push the Overton window in our direction. It’s never good to be the most right-wing party or political movement.

    https://www.thelocal.de/20111212/39445

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Dan Bagrov
  59. @Thorfinnsson

    Did they actually ban you for this?

  60. 5371 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Pleasantly surprised by Quillette. I thought there would be more TED talk material than there seems to be. I expected the stink of Pinker.

  61. @Spisarevski

    That said, this might well have been grandstanding.

    The time in prison could have fucked him in the head. I don’t know.

    It was his parents who fucked him in the head. IIRC they adopted a couple of black children in addition to their biological ones.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
  62. DFH says:
    @Spisarevski

    Anglin does excellent work in diverting the teenagers and idiots his site is aimed at away from actual Nazi larping into less harmful avenues

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Rosie
  63. @DFH

    Do you guys actually read it? I don’t think I ever opened the site at all. Maybe I once read an article which was proposed by Greasy Williams. (What’s with him, by the way? Also, still no news of Randal?)

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Rosie
  64. The only thing Quillette has going for it is the lack of a paywall. An ungated Spectator would run rings around it and it’s not even that good nowadays.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  65. @Anatoly Karlin

    I’ve seen those quotes. The quotes I mentioned are also real but I don’t have screenshots of them.

    Anyway like I said, not defending him.
    I was just trying to think of an explanation why would he work for the DS, which I think you would agree is a pretty pro-Russian site, and that’s without even having any illusions about Russia.

    @reiner Tor

    Do you guys actually read it? I don’t think I ever opened the site at all

    It’s fucking hilarious, one of the best sites on the web.

  66. neutral says:
    @WHAT

    There have been some jews that ended up being anti jew (Bobby Fisher, Ehard Milch, Kubrik mentioned that Hitler was right). Whatever issues Weev has, he is not working for the jews. Dailystormer is not a jewish front, however people like Lauren Southern that will never want to mention the jews are much more suspect.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  67. DFH says:
    @reiner Tor

    Only when people link me opinion pieces from it. Everything I have heard from Anglin about strategy (apart from his support for UK dafty group NA) has been fairly sensible and non-violent though.

  68. @neutral

    people like Lauren Southern that will never want to mention the jews

    You need them as gateway redpills.

    • Replies: @neutral
  69. neutral says:
    @reiner Tor

    You need them as gateway redpills.

    Problem is that these specific redpills are manufactured in Israel.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  70. @neutral

    What do you base this assertion on?

    The JQ is the hardest redpill, it was the last one I took. If there were no gateway redpills (even including things like Steve Pinker), I’d never have gone that far.

    • Agree: for-the-record
    • Replies: @iffen
  71. 5371 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    It seems that though both SiP and Telegram claimed they had mostly upscale, hard-to-deter viewers, they were both wrong about that.
    I predicted this would happen.

  72. Rosie says:
    @DFH

    Anglin does excellent work in diverting the teenagers and idiots his site is aimed at away from actual Nazi larping into less harmful avenues.

    Not to mention that some of them might otherwise wind up on on dope and eventually in prison of dead.

  73. Rosie says:
    @reiner Tor

    Do you guys actually read it? I don’t think I ever opened the site at all. Maybe I once read an article which was proposed by Greasy Williams. (What’s with him, by the way? Also, still no news of Randal?)

    I check it daily to find out what they’re up to.

  74. Rosie says:
    @reiner Tor

    Though you might argue that they wanted a fake right wing party with no chance of winning elections, but on the other hand, the existence of such a party makes it more difficult to ban a more moderate party (like the AfD), and actually could push the Overton window in our direction. It’s never good to be the most right-wing party or political movement.

    This seems to be a long-running debate in our circles. Some think that extremists tarnish the whole movement. Others think they move the Overton window. One would think there would be a way to answer this question empirically and put it to rest. I don’t claim to have the answer, but I suspect the latter view is closer to the truth. Certainly in the case of the Women’s movement, I think the presence of radicals helped the moderates achieve their goals. I think something similar may happened with the Labor Movement.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  75. @AquariusAnon

    Its really low-quality these days and not entertaining like DS. In some ways, its actually an excellent example of low-quality content driving out higher-quality content over time; most of the better “manosphere” writers have migrated away, or are at least not one-note. A combination of outrage/fame cycle serves to promote the most outrageous and less well-written variations. You’ll always hear Roosh, rarely Donovan, for example.

    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
  76. @Daniel Chieh

    I agree that Return of Kings has gotten very low quality, but there’s still a lot of quality posts and threads on Roosh V Forum, especially their Politics and to a lesser extent, Everything Else section. The Travel and Game threads are useful too. I’d say its still a great forum.

  77. @reiner Tor

    There could be any number of reasons for an intel service or civil rights group running DS, while also not using it to advocate breaking the law (today). It could be a research operation or they may be trying to slowly build a pool of right wing lunatics. Maybe they just want to scare Jewish donors into coughing up more cash. We know the Israelis are arming and funding the nazi goons in Kiev so don’t put it past them. Fanatics are useful, overemphasizing the Jewish component is useful.

    My personal hunch is their long term goal is to start some sort of revolt in the USA, which will of course be easily crushed and used as a justification for going after free speech and confiscating weapons. It’s extremely unsettling, you can’t hope to resist the system as a little person, you must submit and be content to bitch in the comments section.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  78. @Dan Bagrov

    their long term goal is to start some sort of revolt in the USA, which will of course be easily crushed

    The revolt might gain traction for some stupid unforeseen reason. If that’s their thinking, it’s dumb. Even if it will likely be ultimately successful.

    I don’t think it’s a given that the deep state is very good at playing multidimensional chess. Most likely no one is good at it. Society is so complex that it’s near impossible to foresee the effects of such policies or operations. They could easily backfire.

    • Agree: Dan Bagrov
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  79. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor

    I’d never have gone that far.

    Come back from the Dark Side.

    • LOL: reiner Tor
  80. @Rosie

    We don’t have any extremists, though, and the persistent problem with both the current political climate and the dissident right is this ridiculous idea that a person who just breaks taboos and waves a swastika flag (or something) is an “extremist”.

    Past political extremists blew up bombs, assassinated opponents, sabotaged valuable equipment (like, say, the environmentalist groups who booby trapped trees to oppose logging). Nazi memes and costume party rallies are not extremism. Andrew Anglin is not an extremist. He is a man who role plays an extremist on the internet. And it just looks really pathetic and ridiculous to copy the aesthetics of past extremists while signaling about rejecting violence.

    The supposedly “extreme” alt-right is utterly tame even compared to the meme nationalist groups like Basque separatists. Extremism sometimes works (eg. terrorism worked for the communists and the political field in the West profoundly shifted towards the left at the same time as the elites wanted to avoid the same fate as in Russia) but the alt right has no actual extremists. Pretending that you’re an extremists when you’re not is the worst of both worlds: you get associated with violent people but since you’re not violent yourself no one is actually afraid of you.

    • Replies: @fnn
  81. fnn says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    Be careful, you don’t want to encourage more Dylan Roofs and Anders Breiviks. The guy to emulate is probably General Grivas, but that may be impossible in current system of ultra-surveillance.

  82. @Fidelios Automata

    And at least Rockwell allows debate on the issue. At other “libertarian”TM sites if you argue border restrictions of any kind except against “Russian Agents” they will ree at you like there is no tomorrow.

  83. @Ron Unz

    “Schanberg’s great 2010 piece on McCain is temporarily on top, which is quite unusual.”

    OMFGosh that is hilarious. Watch them get so triggered that they wright an article called “How Ron Unz dances on the grave of an American Hero!”

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  84. Ron Unz says:
    @Anarcho-Supremacist

    Ha, ha. Just out of curiosity, I checked the TAC website again, and their crisis has passed—the top four articles are all pieces by Dreher about the Catholic Church scandal. I’ll bet 90% of their top articles from the last few months have been along similar lines, and that’s what’s been driving their recent traffic…

    • LOL: reiner Tor
  85. @reiner Tor

    Conspiracies largely fail to work the way conspirators expect them to. Though that doesn’t stop groups from attempting them, I think.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  86. @Daniel Chieh

    Only complicated conspiracies. The conspiracy to remove Khrushchev worked as intended, for example.

  87. Olorin says:
    @reiner Tor

    I read faster and better than I listen, particularly when the voices in question are not skilled speakers, are mumble-mouths, or read their scripts etc. too fast or with no sense of the ear. I’d rather read a long piece by a thoughtful writer, or a mess of comments by commenters with their hearts in it, than try to audially digest people maundering on to fill allotted time, an element of which I have nowhere near enough. I’m a picky listener, and I also prefer male voices.

    Having said that I wouldn’t mind listening to a skilled reader present audio versions of quality Unz.com content. We love reading aloud in this house. Steve Sailer’s stuff is generally a pleasure to read aloud, Ron Unz’s less so, though his less elegant writing habits are easy to repair on the vocal fly, like his habit of stringing multiple sentences together with conjunctions. Still when the content is so bold and thoughtful, it’s worth the effort. But nothing beats reading, then thinking it over while listening to music or power tools.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  88. Olorin says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I find Quillette weak and boring…but then my preference is for stronger meat than it serves its readers, and more daring thinking, more risk-taking in tone and habit. More entrepreneurial and edgily courageous.

    I suspect Quillette’s primary utility is to dispense, as /pol/ puts it, babby’s first red pills, in this case to an audience of Establishment types reeling from the tectonic heaving of the Establishment’s long-standing pet ideas. But presented in that maundering, padded, think-tank-sinecure- or academic-conference-type prose that I increasingly can’t stand. “Yes, I am writing an essay in a voice that such essays should be written in.”

    And of course certain matters are steadfastly avoided…while others are referred to for effect rather than effectiveness (the constant touchbacks of the Sheela-na-gig of Jordan Peterson, e.g.). I find it thus wishy-washy.

    Finally, even more irritating is when they report on stuff that’s been covered in these here pages and the associated writers’ blogs for years and years now…as though it’s something just discovered. There is something cheaply lecture-hallish about Quillette to my ear. Something derivative in the manner of college professors or other institutional occupants saying what is mostly safe to say, based on others’ thinking. The thick sugar shell around a small anise seed to sweeten the breath after half a century of mouthing excrement.

    Maybe it’s simply targeted at institutional hangers-on, but I constantly get a whiff of people trying to preserve their rice bowl. Alt lite. Maybe put more simply I’ve been spoiled by all these years of reading “dark enlightenment” Edge. Take a bow, host.

  89. weev says:
    @Spisarevski

    not so much because of weev’s technical skills but because of the sheer persistence of Anglin, who continued to buy new domains and write articles and look for ways to get past the censorship – he distributed pdf copies via Gab and encouraged people to share them for example

    The current registrar that the .name domain is on, which it has finally managed to keep for a long while, was found by me by examining court rulings for domain seizures and thus finding the world’s sole registrar that does actually in fact not fold to anything short of a court order to its parent registry.

    The weekly PDF/ePub copies that you speak of above are a significant technical project that required a custom wordpress XML to LaTeX parser being written and maintained, they don’t just appear out of thin air and nobody had ever done custom typesetting from XML to LaTeX like this before.

    Over half of the recurring audience shows up to view the site through Tor, which is only possible because of custom modifications to the Tor C daemon that sacrifice anonymity for speed, which I personally wrote and maintain, patching regularly into new Tor releases as necessary.

    Anglin’s claims that viewership is higher than ever – and by several multiples – seem incorrect. Even so, it plainly dominates the Alt Right. DailyStormer.com was around 11,000th in the world last year; DailyStormer.name is just 17,000th, according to Alexa.

    To the OP: Anglin’s claims are not false. Regular, recurring readers visit the Tor domains now, slightly over half of them, as they’ve been the only consistent way to access the website over the past year, and that does not end up in Alexa statistics. In addition, a massive amount of the Stormer’s former traffic was search and social– obviously the site lost all of its pagerank and search term responsive positions in the shutdown. Also the aforementioned Stormer weekly magazine has a unique readership that consumes it exclusively, and it is mostly new users that like the feel of reading a contiguous Sunday paper, though this leads to a higher bounce rate and thus less impressive website metrics as well. The actual number of regular readers has gone up, significantly, even though the Alexa rank looks less impressive.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  90. LondonBob says:
    @Ali Choudhury

    Surprisingly the Spectator is still pretty decent considering the low standard of British media these days, there are still some good columnists about.

    Never read Daily Stormer. Used to read Lew Rockwell every day ten to fifteen years ago, haven’t bothered for a while. Rothbard introduced me to holocaust revisionism and my impression is they were a lot more edgy. Antiwar.com, Vdare and Isteve I have read for twenty plus years and still do. Vdare less so these days as it is too US focussed and I read some of their stuff here at Unz. The Occudental Observer is good too.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Cagey Beast
  91. Nznz says: • Website

    Regarding arguments against homosexuals and the LGBT movement, why do people here think that the secular it’s yucky argument will work better than the dues vult argument, the problem with the it’s yucky argument is that it can easily be countered by liberal propaganda and repeatedly showing LGBT scenes as normal, and argument against them like the STD or AIDS argument do not seem to work any better either. And an increasing number and millennial and generation Z are bisexual now, which is a lot worse in practical terms than female bisexuality. https://www.google.com.ph/amp/s/nypost.com/2016/06/02/millennials-are-the-most-bisexual-generation-of-all-time/amp/.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  92. @Olorin

    Yes, however, listening to speech is occasionally just better, more natural, in the sense that despite less information being conveyed, somehow you’ll understand the issue more. Though of course I still usually prefer reading the thing, because it’s easier to search in, to visualize it, etc.

  93. @Thorfinnsson

    I don’t even understand it why. Should not just have lol’d at it?

  94. weev says:
    @WHAT

    I have never once in my life been based in Kyiv. Never for a minute have I lived there, I find the city dirty and full of undesirables like Americans and homosexuals. My longest stay in Kyiv ever was 72 hours.

    The Daily Stormer blog itself uses HTTPS most of the time, excepting when EU authorities tried injecting a bad SSL cert via a routing-based man-in-the-middle attack. During that brief period of hours we forced unencrypted HTTP on the blog to get rid of the cert errors.

    The site supports Tor hidden services, which are encrypted in a much stronger and safer way than HTTPS (Tor hidden services use the key fingerprint itself as the address, preventing man-in-the-middle attacks) and for the BBS (where user information is stored) we have, several times, gone into a Tor only mode to get as many people as possible accustomed to the usage of Tor technology for site access. I’ve trained dozens of users on ISPs that censor Tor how to use bridges to evade the censorship.

    In short, you’re a brazen, disgusting liar, and I tire of your constant pilpul.

  95. DFH says:
    @LondonBob

    Whoo are you thinking of? Liddle? Murray?

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  96. @weev

    I believe you mean Kiev.

    “Kyiv” is employed by so-called “Ukrainians”, a fake and gay nationality.

    • Replies: @weev
  97. weev says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    No, I mean Kyiv, and Ukraine is a glorious nation and language, infinitely superior to the multiethnic anti-nationalist kleptocracy run by Abromovich’s toy.

    Як умру, то поховайте
    Мене на могилі,
    Серед степу широкого,
    На Вкраїні милій

    You can start pretending Putin is the savior of the white race when he neutralizes the Hebrews that put him in power. In the meantime, Russia will need to be taught some respect for its neighbors.

  98. @weev

    Bet you love Canada, New Zealand, and Austria too.

    Fag.

    • Replies: @weev
    , @DFH
  99. weev says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Nope, none of them have anti-Semitic death squads in their Parliament. Svoboda is an ideal model for political action in Europe and America.

    My heterosexuality and skill at seducing the fairer sex is a matter of public record, my long history of female companionship is well documented in print and film.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  100. @weev

    Still a fake and gay country.

    Fag.

  101. @Nznz

    If the ‘deus vult argument’ didn’t work 50 years ago, then why should it work now when people are less religious and the churches are more cucked?

    • Replies: @Nznz
    , @Nznz
  102. DFH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Typical yank megalomaniac

  103. LondonBob says:
    @DFH

    I like Oborne, McKinstry, Hitchens and Liddle. Murray is a tedious Islam obsessing Israel promoting homo, I pay no attention to him.

    • Replies: @DFH
  104. @weev

    Almost nobody at my venue pretends that Putin is the “savior of the white race” (as opposed to the publication you work for).

    However, it’s hilarious how you echo sovok propaganda that Ukraine is a literal UkroNazi state.

    Even Ukrainian nationalism itself is essentially a combination of lame Nazi larping and a GloboHomo cargo cult, with ritualistic gay parades in Kiev and Odessa.

    In the meantime, Jewish oligarchs such as Kolomoisky play kingmaker in Kiev (he recently met with Tymoshenko in Berlin to plan out the 2019 elections), a guy called Groysman is Ukraine’s PM, it is ruled by a guy nee Waltzman (who admittedly he is not culturally Jewish), overly “energetic” nationalists have been killed or imprisoned, Russian white nationalists who came to fight against their brethren have at best failed to receive residency, or been deported to Russia outright (serves them right – but I assume you disagree).

    And here’s an article from author with whom you have good cause to be familiar with: Ukraine Commits To Suicidal Refugee Resettlement Plan. Now to be sure, Ukraine has far fewer Caucasian and Central Asian Gastarbeiters than Russia – but it doesn’t have to do so much with a commitment to white supremacy, as the fact that Ukrainian salaries are lower than in Kyrgyzstan. But I wouldn’t tout that as an achievement.

    In the meantime, Russia will need to be taught some respect for its neighbors.

    Well, so far, the lessons have been largely one way – unfortunately, svidomy are slow learners. But rest assured that if/when Russian nationalists come to power, we will accelerate the learning pace.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @weev
  105. DFH says:
    @LondonBob

    Oborne is quite entertaining. I once met a guy who worked as his intern and he tried to get him to go alone to a conference in Damascus. Hitchens is a temperemental cuckservative through and through.

    • Replies: @Josep
  106. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Almost nobody at my venue pretends that Putin is the “savior of the white race” (as opposed to the publication you work for).

    Which publication is that?

  107. Mikhail says: • Website

    On the matter of good alt sites, there’re the Canadian based Global Research and Russian situated Strategic Culture Foundation:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/

    Like Russia Insider, the US based Eurasia Review typically picks up articles which initially appeared elsewhere:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/

    The content in Eurasia Review is more diverse than Russia Insider – with the former carrying views like that of Goble and Umland to those being completely different.

    I like The Duran’s new format of having frequent videos on news worthy topics along the lines of the Real News Network. The latter has put out some fine Russia related shows hosted by Aaron Maté:

    https://therealnews.com/

    Ratings don’t tell the whole story, which can involve a good deal of subjective factors. The O’ Reilly Factor was the top rated US cable TV news show. For many others, it had a dreck aspect to it.

  108. weev says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I agree that Jews playing kingmaker in Kyiv is a problem to be solved, just as Jews playing kingmaker in Moscow is as well. Jews seem to be a problem in a lot of places.

    That doesn’t change the fact that Ukrainians have a nation, language, and culture to themselves, far more prone to vocal anti-Semitism, racism, and recent pogroms than the Russian Federation.

    • Replies: @Adam
  109. @LondonBob

    I grew up in a house with a subscription to the Spectator but I doubt I could stand to have it around now. Watching the conservative Coyote fail to catch the globalist Roadrunner gets a little stale after about the fifth decade.

  110. Adam says:
    @weev

    And Turks are an order of magnitude more anti-semitic than Germans. I fail to see the point. Avoz types are marginal and do not dictate the direction post-Maiden Ukraine is heading. By all accounts, Ukraine is becoming more dominated by Jews and Americans. The idea that it will be some kind of fortress against poz is a fantasy.

    Russian nationalists are not fond of Jews, nor of the Russian Federations refusal to put ethnic Russians first. Putin is not a nationalist nor are nationalists supporters of Putin – I’m sure you’re aware of this since you’ve commented on Russian nationalists being put in jail before.

    It seems to me that you’re so rootless and alienated from your own society (for good reason) that you’ve latched onto Ukrainian nationalism imply because it has some signs of a real movement. You’re not so different from the Russia cultists who think Russia is fantastic because its mean to fags. If Russian nationalists took power and threw out the Jews and the central Asians while Ukraine stays a zog puppet, would you suddenly switch sides?

    Also, the idea that Russians are inferior to Ukrainians is pretty hilarious considering Ukrainians have a lower IQ to Russians and overall Russia is a more pleasant country to live in than Ukraine. But if your only exposure to Russians is Donbass and Transnistria (which are absolute cesspools) then I guess it makes sense.

  111. Nznz says: • Website
    @Hyperborean

    Well the it’s yucky and unnatural argument has fallen flat on its face right?

  112. Nznz says: • Website
    @Hyperborean

    Well the it’s yucky and unnatural argument has fallen flat on its face right?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  113. @Nznz

    I don’t really interest myself in this topic, but from my limited experiences, it seems people are more willing to listen (or at least debate) to something along the lines of ‘homosexuality should be discouraged because of the negative effects of promiscuity and buttsex’, as opposed to the ‘deus vult’ argument which is usually dismissed as bigotry.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  114. Talha says:
    @Hyperborean

    Once you have dropped the Deus Vult paradigm for the secular one, you lose that advantage and gain others. But the argument must be secular if the society thinks along secular lines…makes sense.

    Otherwise you can get the job done relatively simply:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-45395086

    It’s meant to be more procedural as an act of public exposure and humiliation than anything else, the caning isn’t severe but gets the idea across that this sort of public behavior isn’t acceptable:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/hahahamie/status/1036483280160284672

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Nznz
    , @DFH
  115. Nznz says: • Website
    @Talha

    So you think the same sex relations are unnatural because they are contrary to natural law and evolution argument are going to convince teens and millenials? Especially someone with a working knowledge of how evolution actually works, who says that the purpose of sexual for reproduction anyway? Why not for pleasure, and the it’s yucky argument does not work for a society in which same sex relations are seen as ordinary as breathing. And the sexual promiscuity argument is not going to work in a society where casual sex is the norm. And one can always use the liberal argument that society has no right to control the private sexual practices of consenting adults especially if they are not harming anybody, and that society is oppressing the individual by doing so, the homosexuality and bisexuality is unnatural secular argument does not work if someone is not already inclined to think that way, I mean one can just as easily argue that oral sex and 69ning is unnatural as well between heterosexuals using that logic and hence should be banned.

  116. Talha says:
    @Nznz

    So you think the same sex relations are unnatural because they are contrary to natural law and evolution argument are going to convince teens and millenials?

    No, I actually think it’s a lost cause for almost exactly the points you expertly made. I’ve had this conversation with my teenage daughter; I was only able to convince her through the religious argument.

    I posted what I did to show how a society, that still runs on Deus Vult, handles it.

    Now some people might point out what disadvantages a Deus Vult society has vis a vis a secular one – and I would likely agree. The question is; which one has more advantages based upon the purpose one envisions for their society.

    If one likes the legal advantages gained for oneself via hyper-individualism then you buy the package for society as well.

    Peace.

  117. DFH says:
    @Talha

    Two Malaysian women convicted of attempting to have lesbian sex in a car

    What does it mean by ‘attempting’? How did they fail?

    • Replies: @Talha
  118. @Nznz

    Why exactly do you believe should your deus vult argument prove convincing to people, especially secular ones? Most of the problems you list about secular arguments apply as well to religious ones, as well as some more.

    • Replies: @Nznz
  119. @Nznz

    You seem to have thought about it, so why exactly do you believe your deus vult argument should prove convincing to people, especially secular ones?

    Most of the problems you list about secular arguments apply as well to religious ones, as well as some more.

    You can try to change the general culture, but then it seems the change in the status of homosexuality will be a secondary effect.

  120. Talha says:
    @DFH

    Not sure but I’m guessing it has something to do with why they ended up in court. Likely someone saw them and called the police who caught them in the act.

    Really, really stupid thing to do this in public spaces in a Muslim country. They could have rented a motel room and nobody would have been the wiser.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Nznz
    , @dfordoom
  121. Nznz says: • Website
    @Talha

    So two women or men booking a motel room is not sufficient evidence before a shariah court? What does the judge think they are doing there, exchanging makeup tips? Use your common sense.

    • Replies: @Talha
  122. Nznz says: • Website
    @Hyperborean

    Under dues vult, when God says something, your only duty is to OBEY, not use your logic to question the validity of the orders. I mean it simplifies the decision loop by making obedience your sole duty.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  123. @Nznz

    There is nothing new under the sun, including theocide.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
  124. Talha says:
    @Nznz

    Shariah courts are supposed to judge by outward actions and avoid punishments when there is doubt. Nor are they supposed to be inquisitorial. In fact, the judge is encouraged to find doubts if possible to avoid punishment. Especially in the case where the issue at hand is a “victimless crime”.

    Two women renting a room together without any other circumstantial evidence is proof of two women renting a room together.

    Peace.

  125. @weev

    No, I mean Kyiv,

    Actually it’s spelled Хуiв

  126. Josep says:
    @DFH

    Hitchens is a temperemental cuckservative through and through.

    You mean Peter Hitchens? How exactly is he one?

    One of the main things I disagree with him on is his attitude towards the metric system and decimal currency in Britain. While I understand (but don’t share) his preferences for Imperial units and £sd (pounds, shillings and pence), however, a few of his arguments leave a lot to be desired. This article is one of them (there’s more where that came from BTW). While I’m not fond of smearing, let alone offending, anyone I disagree with, I’ll let you judge whether this is criteria for “cuckservatism” in your eyes.

    • Replies: @DFH
  127. DFH says:
    @Josep

    Even Enoch Powell is too ‘bigoted’ and ‘irresponsible’ for Hitchens. This is just one example of his tendency to moan about things (within limits) while condemning any course of action or person that might actually solve them. I have never had any respect for him since I attended a talk he gave and saw him defeated in an argument by a seventeen year old.

  128. peterAUS says:

    Alt-sphere ?!

    Just now, topic about coming financial crash…..79 comments, of which only a handful, actually, well put together.
    Holocaust denial, at the same time, 1750 comments, plenty of them well put together.

    Comparing time and effort put in both topics and, more importantly, related interest is……….just funny.

  129. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Nznz

    So you think the same sex relations are unnatural because they are contrary to natural law and evolution argument are going to convince teens and millenials?

    You are not going to convince teens and millennials of anything by resorting to any kind of rational argument. Teens and millennials know that homosexuality is wonderful because it’s fashionable and because everybody on social media says it’s wonderful. You’re dealing with children (and even Millennials in their 30s are still children).

    It doesn’t matter what is right, or sensible, or healthy, or natural, or good for society or good for individual sanity. What matters is what the people in control of the Megaphone tell us. If they tell us homosexuality is doubleplusgood it must be doubleplusgood.

    The sooner our civilisation goes down the toilet the better.

    • Replies: @Nznz
  130. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Talha

    Really, really stupid thing to do this in public spaces in a Muslim country. They could have rented a motel room and nobody would have been the wiser.

    They’re lesbians. Lesbians don’t have sex with women because they like sex with women. They don’t. They have sex with women because it will upset Mother, or it will bring down the patriarchy, or it will get them attention.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @songbird
  131. Talha says:

    or it will get them attention.

    They definitely got attention then arrested then a court case and then publicly whipped – not to mention plenty of press coverage in Western media (wondering why Malaysia isn’t SJW)…so I guess they succeeded.

    Peace.

  132. @dfordoom

    Lesbians don’t have sex with women because they like sex with women. They don’t.

    That’s a very strong assertion, and most likely baseless.

    Women are probably natural bisexuals. Most women, probably. A minority of them might be more strictly heterosexual, especially those with access to quality male partners. Even these are almost always prone to cuddling other women, which they like in and of itself.

    But when a woman has no access to quality males, or no males at all, then she will naturally turn to other women for sex. She finds nothing revolting or uncomfortable about touching or stroking other women, even in intimate settings, and usually society doesn’t care either. Why would they have anything against touching or stroking each other’s genitalia, even to the point of orgasm?

    These Malaysian women did it the stupid way, but probably they were simply dissatisfied with their husbands.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @Nznz
  133. @weev

    It seems to me the main problem of Kiev isn’t Americans or homosexuals, who are thankfully not that common. Poland has much more Americans and homosexuals, and even then, its a small fraction of that of Western Europe on a per capita basis.

    The main problem in Kiev, besides the obvious svidomy and corruption, is Turkish sex tourists. Apparently they would go around spam approaching girls on Khreschatyk, and are a very ubiquitous sight on that street, asking them “how much?”. Apparently they make parts of Kiev feel like a Middle Eastern bazaar at times, except only men in groups of 3. But they are also discovering Minsk now.

    Remove visa-free access for Turkish sex tourists travelling in packs of 3 (never 2 or 4, always 3 for some reason) to Ukraine. Remove flypgs.com from Svidomy premises

    • Replies: @Talha
  134. Talha says:
    @AquariusAnon

    Remove visa-free access for Turkish sex tourists

    Damn right! Shut that crap down!

    Peace.

  135. Nznz says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    Well to be frank, how do you actually know if they are the ones that are insane, or you are the one that is actually insane, if everyone does one thing and you are the one only one that is doing another thing, or if you are the only one that thinks that it is disgusting and wrong and everyone around you thinks that there is nothing wrong with it, how do you know for sure that it is not you who should have your head examined and not them?

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  136. @reiner Tor

    Women aren’t men, and female sexuality is not male sexuality. For women, “sex” means penetration and the breaking of physical and psychological barriers.

    For women, “touching or stroking other women” is masturbation, not sex.

    To be honest, I’m not even sure that the concept of “lesbian sex” is even physically possible. Seems like it’s a way for women to be a sexually mature adult without ever actually doing the sex act.

  137. @Nznz

    “Ye shall know them by their fruits.”

    Not rocket science, people.

  138. Alt-Fight says:

    Therightstuff.biz shredded some ranks as well (probably due to their reorganizations): https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/therightstuff.biz

    Thedailystormer.name also gets a chunk of traffic from their .onion/TOR link (which is untraceable for Alexa), so their viewership is probably higher than reported.

    Also Takimag apparently still has comments for subscribers? (https://i.imgur.com/HCoIVkp.png)

  139. Nznz says: • Website
    @reiner Tor

    If women are natural bisexuals what about men? How would you explain Greco-Roman universal male bisexuality and pederasty if almost everybody is not at least latently bisexual in one way or another?

  140. ussr andy says:

    OT has someone noticed how unkempt some public fugures are.

    Venediktov (Echo of Moscow chief editor), Gelfand (biologist, haven’t looked in detail but probably blank-slatist scum), Shenderovich (satirist)?

    I’ve a theory. Two theories.
    First, emulating Einstein/Perelman/Beethoven. Wild hair=genius.

    Second, flaunting secondary characteristics to compensate. Cause you know you couldn’t defend a date from a 5’2″ Tajik in a dark alley. Confident guys like the Klitschkos are always clean-shaven.

  141. songbird says:
    @dfordoom

    One of my sister’s friends who was a single mother with a daughter turned into a lesbian, married or is marrying a woman. She did have a very slightly hairy lip, but my theory is that in her case it was mostly loneliness.

  142. Talha says:
    @Hyperborean

    India is getting pozzed in real time:
    “India now joins a proud league of nations that recognises recognises true freedom of gender identity and sexual expression.”

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/section-377-impact-will-be-felt-beyond-india/articleshow/65712471.cms

    Look at the reasoning behind this though and the wording…very interesting:
    “No kind of prejudice and discrimination can continue in perpetuity. Section 377 was introduced in Indian criminal law in furtherance of western notions of morality, based on Abrahamic ideologies. At the time of its introduction, limited consideration was given to a contradictory morality that existed in the subcontinent, which acknowledged and recognised homosexuality, and did not criminalise it.”

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
  143. Talha says:
    @Talha

    More gems from the article…
    “Beyond decriminalising homosexuality, we need to think about how homosexuals and persons who identify themselves as being outside the conventional binary, can be integrated into society without using their gender or sexuality as the foci of such integration. So, for example, we need to start thinking of how social institutions like marriage or parenting can be re-imagined; we need to redesign pedagogical tools to embrace these differences; we need to redevelop institutions like schools and workplaces to make them all inclusive.
    This is only the dawn of a new era. True and complete freedom is yet to be achieved.”

    Total poz-awesomeness!!!

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  144. @Talha

    ”This is only the dawn of a new era. True and complete freedom is yet to be achieved.”

    Dawn of a new era, really? This and the whole jargon thing makes it sound like it was written by a communist.

    • Replies: @Talha
  145. Talha says:
    @Hyperborean

    Or an activist judge (which it was), take your pick…

    Peace.

  146. @Ron Unz

    That said, Anglin’s claims that viewership is higher than ever – and by several multiples – seem incorrect.

    Understand that Daily Stormer’s most dedicated readers have been steadily migrating to Tor browsers to read DS at its .onion address. This traffic is, by definition, unknowable, although it can probably be roughly estimated based on server load or bandwidth costs.

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