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I wrote about upcoming changes to Russian immigration policy a few days ago.

Its main point boiled down to creating simplified naturalization procedures for people facing political persecution, with a clear eye to the Ukraine, as well as for highly qualified foreigners.

I had two criticisms.

First, simplified naturalization for “humanitarian reasons” doesn’t do anything for Russians in places like Belorussia and Central Asia, let alone promote Ukrainian and Belorussian immigration.

Second, it could also potentially ignite a virtue signalling-fueled #RefugeesWelcome situation sometime in the future.

Fortunately, PUTLER personally reads my blog, so both these issues are being addressed.

According to the latest report from Kommersant, the desirability of increasing labor immigration from the Ukraine and Belorussia has been explicitly specified. According to an anonymous official, the next legislative change could involve the cancelation of Russian language requirements for citizens of those countries for obtaining Russian citizenship: “They all speak Russian there anyway,” notes the official in question. There will likely be further deregulation of naturalization procedures for highly qualified specialists and people who finished university with flying colors.

This is highly congruent with my suggestions to systemically stripmine the Ukraine of human capital, which will (peacefully) benefit Russia while weakening a hostile state.

Furthermore, at the 7th Congress of Russian Communities yesterday, PUTLER managed to overcome his multinational programming and explicitly identify Russia with Russians:

We are interested that our young countrymen living abroad not lose their roots, their [ethnic] “Russianness” so to speak, their ties to the homeland.

That is, it is precisely the Russianness that makes Russian countrymen, countrymen. Implicitly, Russia is the homeland of Russians, as opposed to its official vision of itself as a multinational soup.

In all fairness, Putin has a well-known habit of telling people what they want to hear, and the 7th Congress of Russian Communities is a rather self-selected audience.

Still, it’s an encouraging note.

To date, the sovok bureaucrats who rule over Russia have studiously avoided applying ethnocultural filters in considering immigration policy. As a result, officially sanctioned outlook varied from making birth in the USSR a key criterion (which promised Russia millions of Gastarbeiters with Russian passports), or the fact of having had “ancestors in the territories of the Russian Federation” (which cut off most of the inhabitants of the Ukraine and Belorussia from Russian citizenship, despite the centuries of close connections between them and many of them identifying as Russians).

This centering of “Russianness” clears out the ideological underbrush and opens up the way to reconstructing the “Russia Great, United & Undivided” that the Whites fought for in the Civil War.

For instance, as Kholmogorov has recently suggested, one powerful way this ideological reformulation – if indeed it is to be taken seriously – can be implemented is in the Donbass, which is ripe for mass distributions of Russian passports. Furthermore, Putin explicitly mentioned the long-suffering Donbass in his speech, alluding to their struggle to preserve their national roots and traditions. But if Russians are henceforth to be defined by their Russianness, and the Donbass is fighting to preserve its Russianness, then it becomes ridiculous to continue portraying the War in the Donbass as an internal Ukrainian affair, as Kremlin propaganda has been doing since the end of the abortive “Russian Spring” in 2014.

Hopefully Putin can continue reading my blog and moving from putlet into PUTLER mode.

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Immigration, Law, Russia 
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  1. There is also language to the effect that Russia needs to be open to immigration of peoples, who have no particular connection to the country etc. It is possible, and even likely, knowing how things generally work out in Putin’s Russia, that this will result in greater numbers of Tadjiks.

    To be honest I don’t really understand where your optimism comes from. As usual in Russia, important changes to immigration policy are being done without any public discussion or input. Who knows what final product is going to look like?

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  2. anonymous[628] • Disclaimer says:

    Your comment about the 31 measures for Taiwan inspired me to check out if any apply to my team’s efforts to hire Taiwanese lawyers for positions in the PRC. I found it’s not a “sweeping package” as the headlines depict and there aren’t perks like tax incentives. In essence what the measures try to do is smooth out differences in legal status. Calls to the semi-government org that helps facilitate immigration and business were unhelpful.

    So while your Ukraine human capital strip mining plan sounds good, don’t count on China to be a leading model.

  3. Anonymous[143] • Disclaimer says:

  4. AP says:

    This is highly congruent with my suggestions to systemically stripmine the Ukraine of human capital, which will (peacefully) benefit Russia while weakening a hostile state.

    As I wrote previously, it’s not going to attract many patriotic Ukrainians (who, if inclined to leave for money, would move to Poland rather than help hostile Russia) but would contribute to the lumpenization of the ethnic Russian population in Ukraine by strip-mining it of its cognitive elite. This would further weaken any Russian fifth column within Ukraine.

    So it’s a win-win for both countries.

  5. Anon[289] • Disclaimer says:

    https://nationalpolicy.institute/2018/08/17/2050-is-coming-sooner-than-we-thought/

    US whites on track to be minorities by 2031. The year of Trump’s election was the first ever when there was a recorded decline in the US white population in absolute numbers.

    The official census projections are atypically ‘optimistic’ about the decline of the US white population compared to the actual historical record. A conspiratorial mind would deduce that this may not be completely coincidental, and that there are political benefits to be gained from underplaying the speed of the decline until it is too late and then do a belated “oops”. Sort of a repeat of the 1965 act where the proponents first claimed that there would be no difference and later claimed it would be very slow, until they finally settled for an insincere “oops”.

    Remember that non-white semites are counted in the official NHW category, so the actual year is likely 2030 or even 2029. For those under the age of 10, this is already the reality.

  6. Isabella says:

    What’s with the “PUTLER”. What is it supposed to mean? I know you are a Putin and Russia hater, you never have a decent word to say about them, you use a Russian sounding name to try and drum up some credibility, but your antipathy is nbow so open that even Russia Insider wont print you.

    So – lets look at what Russia was in the year 1999 after the America you clearly worship had left it decimated to the point of complete disappearance, the disaster that Mr. Putin took on his shoulders, and look at Russia now.
    And lets look at what you’ve done in the last 19yrs?
    Somehow, I think nothing. So — a little green eyed monster peering round the corner here?
    No-one wants a more open immigration policy for Russia than I do, since I would love to be able to go and live there.
    On the other hand, do I want to see Russia torn apart by race wars, internecine hatreds and social collapse as in America, UK, France, Germany, Sweden etc etc??
    No way, none at all.
    So given you have nothing sensible or reasonable to say, why not just go away and keep pigs?

  7. @AP

    Does patriotism factors really play a large role in emigration tho?

    Relations between Turkey and Armenia are far worse (more Ukrainians now approve of Russia than don’t; I expect approval of Turkey in Armenia is perhaps 10% at best), and Armenians are more nationalistic than Ukrainians. Yet there are about 100,000 Armenians working in Turkey.

    I also don’t see why lumpenizing the Russian population in the Ukraine will be a bad thing for Russia. The intellectuals are clever, this means they are going to want to maximize their status, and preaching the values of the “Russian World” while in Ukraine aren’t going to get them gibs or respect from either the Ukraine or Euro-Atlantic institutions.

    Lumpenized Russians will be nationalistic and less eager to integrate into the Ukraine. Much in fact like the Russian minorities in the Baltics, who vote for Putin more than Russians at home thanks to all the brighter young ones having left (unfortunately, mostly for the West, not Russia).

    This seems similar to the Hungarian minority in Transylvania and the Ukraine. It is the poorer (more nationalistic) ones who have remained, creating trouble for both countries while bolstering Orban politically, by voting for him, and serving as a pretext of nationalist mobilization domestically.

    • Replies: @AP
  8. @Isabella

    For the “slow” – the svidomy worship Putin as a God, as a Putler. Ergo it is good to see Putin live up their moniker from time to time, and I encourage him to do so. HAIL PUTLER.

    I’d label you a “Troll” except that you’re just really thick so I doubt you qualify. You probably also believe that I use “vatnik” as a term of abuse.

    I just checked and there seem to be a couple of my articles on RI’s front page. That said, I won’t be particularly distraught if they do stop republishing me. I don’t get paid by them and the intelligence of the commentariat there leaves much to be desired, as you yourself so aptly demonstrate.

  9. @AP

    who, if inclined to leave for money, would move to Poland rather than help hostile Russia

    I wonder, when you or your ancestors immigrated to USA, did you think of yourself as “helping America”? lol

    I think most people would worry about helping themselves in such situation. The fact is Ukrainians are treated much better in Russia, than in Poland and face no language/cultural barrier. Ukrainian degrees are readily accepted by Russian employers, which is a big deal.

    • Replies: @AP
  10. ERM says:

    As alluded to above, Ukrainians have been pouring into Poland and the Czech Republic for years now. Ten years ago they were mostly your wetback type of grunt labourer but they’ve been getting a lot more high-value since Maidan. What can Russia offer these people that richer countries inside the EU cannot?

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  11. @ERM

    Poland and other Eastern Europe is not much richer, than Russia on average. Ukrainians don’t speak Polish language. By and large they remain stuck in low-paid, menial jobs, i.e. jobs that Poles themselves won’t do. lol

    By contrast Ukrainians in Russia enjoy access to a greater variety of professional occupations. They are all fluent in Russian, are able to blend in seamlessly, and basically feel at home in Russia.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @AP
  12. Gerard2 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    As usual in Russia, important changes to immigration policy are being done without any public discussion or input.

    Brainless lie. WTF this garbage mean? It’s a constant topic of public debate and discussion you clown.

    It is possible, and even likely, knowing how things generally work out in Putin’s Russia, that this will result in greater numbers of Tadjiks.

    As members of the Eurasian economic Union it is similarly easy now for Tadjiks to go to Russia now, one of the main reasons the announcement from Putin wasn’t done before is because VVP knows that if they then hand out millions of passports to desperate Ukrainians( which of course would still include many, many parasitic scumbags who fought for the UkroNazis in the “ATO” and the families of much of the Ukrainian elite) then that further runs the risk of sanctions. Of course bureaucratic and other problems have played a part in Donbass migrants coming to Russia, but they aren’t the whole reason

    It’s also part of the process of Russian bureaucracy considerably improving for the better, and this being a reflection of that

    Who knows what final product is going to look like?

    Armenia,Kyrgyzstan,Tajikistan , Belarus considerably improving in all aspects ( economic, health, crime, living standards…as they have been doing under Russian trajectory) , thus Russia gets plenty of their best people and investment, and then an equilibrium is eventually established between talented people going to Russia, and talented people going from Russia/back to these countries

    Ukraine, Gruzia, Moldova losing a hugely important part of their best people to Russia, and getting zero benefit out of it whatsoever

    the Baltics ( whose biggest export market is still Russia) also could lose plenty of people, much better run then Moldova, Gruzia and Ukropia ( though as a micro-state with defense budgets minimised through NATO , they are extremely mediocre in success compared to other European micro-states),they could still lose out on investment and trade markets from Russia if Russia has even less incentive to keep up trade there… and suffer big financial consequences from this

  13. songbird says:

    At this point, it should be pretty clear that the minimum guideline should be genetic distance. Probably, with some additional restrictions added to that which take into consideration propensity to virtue signal or susceptibility to a globalist ideology.

    • Replies: @Joach
  14. Mr. Hack says:

    The idea of luring away Ukrainians and other ethnics to Russia by offering them jobs and a better lifestyle is certainly a smarter and more sustainable policy of long term Russification than stealing territory and fomenting long and expensive wars in neighboring countries. It’s the old ‘carrot or the stick’ syndrome played out in the real world. Russia gets what it needs and doesn’t sustain a permanent black eye from the international community. Retracting to its own borders, probably even sanctions would be lifted. It’s closer to the US form of imperialism that Karlin must have seen at play while living in the US. On the flip side, it’ll force countries like Ukraine to get their act together and improve their own situation to compete better with Russia. Who knows, without the stupid war in Donbas, perhaps Ukraine and Russia cold resume having better relations too…nothing wrong with that.

    • Replies: @WHAT
  15. @Isabella

    So given you have nothing sensible or reasonable to say, why not just go away and keep pigs?

    I don’t think you want to see the ultmate evolution of the cyberpunk “pig” farmer.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesia:_A_Machine_for_Pigs

    • Replies: @songbird
  16. neutral says:

    And what exactly does “Russianess” imply. This demands a precise answer because I have absolutely zero doubts that in the future there will be masses of sub Saharans that want to live the “Russian dream”, or whatever other terminology the left will use to push for mass migration. Is Russian a Slavic racial identity? If not that, then explain to me how in principle and in practice you can deny people in Nigeria from becoming citizens if they learned the language and converted to the Orthodox church?

  17. Goulven says:

    Hi,

    From a French currently in the process of integrating into the Russian society (studying for TRKI-2), being forced to renounce your former citizenship seems a very good thing to me because:
    * it’s symbolically very strong, it’s a commitment to integrate and assimilate as there will be no way back
    * it proves your loyalty to the state, and the country (родина)
    * in France we have many people with dual-citizenship, especially from North Africa. I’ve noticed that they usually have stronger feelings toward the country they originate from than toward France (more affection), even those born and grown up in France! 30 years ago when everything was ok with immigration, but what in the next years when things will heat up? Where will their loyalty go? Will they share the fate of their fellow citizens (and which ones)?
    * it opens you more rights than normal citizens: right to vote in several countries, you can in certain case avoid military service… As a dual-citizen, you become more equal than the others

    In my opinion, a citizenship is much more than just a convenient way to cross a frontier at the airport.

    In general, I think France is a good example of what not to do))

    Regards,

    Goulven

  18. songbird says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Pig farming is a noble profession. Someone has to supply the organic components for pig-brained drones, as well as the grease for their machine guns.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
  19. WHAT says:
    @Mr. Hack

    >”stealing territory”
    >”stupid war”
    >muh ukraine shitshow will somethow compete with bear

    Hey buddy, I think you’ve got the wrong door, neocohen club is two blocks down.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  20. Mr. Hack says:
    @WHAT

    This is Ron Unz house and he’s 100% ‘cohen’. Even Karlin claims somewhere less than 15% cohenese in his lineage. Are you sure that you entered the right door?…

    AK: 5%. I am Nuremberg Laws compliant. HEIL PUTLER!

  21. Dmitry says:

    When I’m reading this I remember a few years ago, when Navalny and Sobchak were discussing on Dozhd, about how they think Uzbeks shouldn’t be allowed into Russia because they don’t know Pushkin.

    And then federal media promoted in response about how Uzbeks study Pushkin as much as Russians, and various viral videos of Uzbeks reciting of Pushkin and flashmobs of Uzbek children saying Pushkin in public places.

    So the whole thing was at least a very civilized controversy, designed around the importance of high culture and literature.

    But for Americans who watch CNN and read New York Times, and describe Putin in analogy to Trump, which are supposedly similar – they are in a different dimension, for better or worse (surely it would be better if he was a bit more like Trump in this policy area).

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Dmitry
    , @Anonymous
    , @DFH
  22. anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    And then federal media promoted in response about how Uzbeks study Pushkin as much as Russians, and various viral videos of Uzbeks reciting of Pushkin and flashmobs of Uzbek children saying Pushkin in public places.

    The post-smartphone world is a different country.

  23. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Americans who watch CNN and read New York Times, and describe Putin in analogy to Trump, which are supposedly similar – they are in a different dimension, for better or worse

    I mean the American descriptions (i.e. CNN and New York Times) are in a different dimension. Not always clear if this is willfully misleading, or they are actually believing their own programs and articles “analysing” this topic.

  24. Anonymous[385] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    It seems that once Russians hit a certain education threshold they become even worse doublespeakers than Anglos. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter if some Uzbeks were trained to recite Pushkin or not, nobody really cares on either side. Central Asians remain intellectually challenged inbred Muslims and the main threat to Russian demographics regardless of how well versed they are in Russian culture. Very few people want them to assimilate even among labor migration advocates. Notice how you will never hear the Pushkin argument mentioned when it comes to white immigrants. Nobody cared if those supposed Boer refugees from several months ago knew a word in Russian.
    You could say that it makes the discussion appear more civilized but sometimes you have to stop beating around the bush if you want the problem solved.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @melanf
  25. anonymous[303] • Disclaimer says:

    Meanwhile, imperialist America continues to appropriate Russian culture in the most insensitive way.
    WTF “Troika”?

  26. Dmitry says:
    @Anonymous

    Uzbek immigration may indeed create problems..

    But look at the lack of analogization between countries and the low quality of media discourse of this.

    Politicians who market now to liberal hipster demographics (Navalny, Sobchak), are worried about Uzbek immigration in their discourse, although unlike Trump they try to present this in a polite way (“they don’t know Pushkin”).

    In response, Kremlin media promotes that “Uzbeks know Pushkin”.

    So in this one, particular policy area (although not in many others), Navalny/Sobchak were promoting a discourse of “polite Trumpism”, while Putin would have been more analogy to the Obama/Clinton/Bush positions to their border policy.

    However, New York Times and CNN, will report in the election, that Trump is like Putin. So firstly, we have a real difference of “political scenery” between different countries. But secondly, complete lack of understanding of differences in American media.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  27. E says:

    I look forward to seeing what (if anything) will change for Russians living abroad in Western countries who don’t have Russian citizenship. Dmitry Orlov wrote a good write-up a little while ago:

    https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2018/05/moving-to-russia.html

    The “easy way” he mentions only applies to US citizens, strangely enough. Russia allows US citizens to obtain “tourist visas” valid for 3 years (as long as you leave & reenter every 6 months, even for a day) which are impossible to get for residents of any other country. Since I don’t live in the US, that’s no good for me.

    The other way seems to be to get a Russian citizen willing to sponsor you and then provide continuous proof that you’re still employed every year.

    Actually getting Russian citizenship seems out of the question due to the requirement to submit an application stating your intention to renounce your previous one, at least for those who still have relatives living in those countries and would be unable to easily visit them. (well… unless maybe you submit that document to get the Russian citizenship and then send another letter saying “oops, I didn’t REALLY want to get rid of my citizenship, never mind my previous letter”…)

    • Replies: @Josep
  28. Joach says:
    @songbird

    At this point, it should be pretty clear that the minimum guideline should be genetic distance.

    I’ve argued for this approach before. Set the maximum genetic distance from an ethnic Russian to .06 — meaning anyone within this threshold is allowed — and most Europeans and their unmixed descendants abroad would pass the test.

    What’s the state of genetic distance testing today, is it cheap? The process could be streamlined. I don’t know if all Greeks, Portuguese and Southern Italians would pass, but they are the exception. I recall that the distance between the English and Italians is 0.07, and between the English and Finnish/German, it’s considerably lower.

    • Replies: @Joach
    , @songbird
  29. Anonymous[385] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    American MSM lives in its own clown world where Putler is an ethnic Russian white supremacist. Russian KGB man bad and since he is bad he must also be bad when it comes to nationalism.

    To be fair, Russian media wasn’t much better when they were calling the mystery meat gang in charge of Ukraine a “fascist junta”. Soviet boomers can’t meme.

    Media aside, my point was that Navalny crowd trying to be “civilized” on the immigration issue is detrimental to them. When liberals can’t bring themselves to say what they are supposed to say they are just making it easy for the government to brush them off.

  30. Joach says:
    @Joach

    Oops, my mistake. The correct percentages are 0.006 and 0.007, respectively.

    Here’s the genetic distance of the English, Japanese and Nigerians from others:

    The Koreans are to Japs (.006) basically what Italians are to the English (.007). Europe is the only continent where the population of different countries are so close genetically.

  31. melanf says:
    @Anonymous

    It seems that once Russians hit a certain education threshold they become even worse doublespeakers than Anglos.

    The bulk of the Russian these ideas did not affect. The taxi driver in Kaliningrad told me (as soon as I got in the car to go from the airport) – “in Kaliningrad, the majority of the population are normal Russian people, but there are also churks.” “Churka” is a derogatory term for immigrants from Central Asia and the Caucasus, the analogue of the word “nigger”. This taxi driver in his statements rather the norm than the exception. These views will not change in the foreseeable future, regardless of TV programs

    • Replies: @Butterlord
  32. songbird says:
    @Joach

    It’s got to be pretty cheap. I believe one of those SNP array chips that the ancestry companies use would be sufficient.

    I don’t know what their economic model is – whether they take a loss to gain the info, but I’d say the prices are pretty cheap today. Many, offers <$100. Sometimes as low as about $50. How much does a passport cost today? A US one costs at least $110 – probably more because you need the pictures, etc.

  33. DFH says:
    @Dmitry

    various viral videos of Uzbeks reciting of Pushkin and flashmobs of Uzbek children saying Pushkin in public places

    Is this the Russian version of BASED black guy in a MAGA hat?

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Dmitry
  34. songbird says:
    @DFH

    Makes me think of Mexicans reciting Mark Twain. Assume it was orchestrated.

  35. Dmitry says:
    @DFH

    Kind of other way round.

    So Navalny/Sobchak discourse on a liberal television channel, were talking something about being worried about Uzbek immigration (Navalny – “Uzbeks don’t know what is Pushkin”). Sobchak was actually criticizing him a bit for this. And response, a lot of flashmobs and so on, of Uzbek Pushkin appreciation.

    It’s like if some liberal television channel of America discourses that Mexicans shouldn’t be allowed to immigrate to America (“Mexicans don’t know what is Hemingway”).

    I remember a few years ago, when Navalny formerly blogged all the time about importance of stopping immigration from central Asia (not a bad plan), but he always writes about this topic in a very indirect way – there is something very dislikeable about his whole style.

    His daughter has been going to English summer schools each year, and is studying for an international baccalaureate here

    http://sch45uz.mskobr.ru/diplomnaya_programma_mezhdunarodnogo_bakalavriata/

    So it will be easy for her to apply for university in England or America. This is a clever way to educate your kids – but it’s funny they’re doing the cheaper style of version of what the people he criticizes are doing.

  36. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Does patriotism factors really play a large role in emigration tho?

    All things being equal it does. If Poland were not an option, people would move to Russia for money. But currently there is some pressure not to do so.

    (more Ukrainians now approve of Russia than don’t; I expect approval of Turkey in Armenia is perhaps 10% at best), and Armenians are more nationalistic than Ukrainians. Yet there are about 100,000 Armenians working in Turkey.

    And ho many are in Russia, which is much further from Armenia than Turkey?

    I also don’t see why lumpenizing the Russian population in the Ukraine will be a bad thing for Russia

    .

    It’s not. This is why I described it as a win-win. Russia benefits by getting smart people, Ukraine benefits by making it potential fifth column less smart.

    Lumpenized Russians will be nationalistic and less eager to integrate into the Ukraine

    There is less of a gulf between them and Ukrainians than between lumpenized Russians in the Baltics and, say, Estonians. With reduced numbers, and being leaderless due to their elite leaving for greener pastures in Russia, they may assimilate more easily.

  37. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Poland and other Eastern Europe is not much richer, than Russia on average

    Wages in Poland a little less than twice what they are in Russia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

    It’s why currently there are many more Ukrainians in Poland than in Russia.

    Ukrainians don’t speak Polish language.

    Very easy to learn. Ukrainian language is as close to Russian as it is to Polish. A few months in Poland is enough for a Ukrainian-speaker to learn the language.

    By and large they remain stuck in low-paid, menial jobs

    Those that are qualified for that, sure, but Ukrainian engineers work in similar jobs in Poland.

    • Replies: @Joach
  38. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I wonder, when you or your ancestors immigrated to USA, did you think of yourself as “helping America”? lol

    America wasn’t hostile to Ukraine. But they did help the USA, employed Americans and paid lots of US taxes.

    The fact is Ukrainians are treated much better in Russia, than in Poland

    No difference.

    and face no language/cultural barrier.

    Not much difference. Ukrainians can learn Polish easily with a little immersion.

    Wages are almost double in Poland what they are in Russia.

  39. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:

    Ukrainian immigration into Poland indeed surpasses that to Russia… But for Russia the immigration from Ukraine is still in hundreds of thousands.

    http://insomniacresurrected.com/2018/11/01/more-than-600000-ukrainian-optimists-have-chosen-their-european-future/

    The numbers for last year are truly staggering I tell you… They are fleeing from the dignity of Poroshenko’s regime.

  40. Joach says:
    @AP

    It’s why currently there are many more Ukrainians in Poland than in Russia.

    That’s patently false.

    Even if Poland has been a great competitor to Russia in regards to post-Maidan migration, the migrant pool is mostly limited to Ukrainian speakers in the west. Do I need to find those videos of Ukrainian laborers eager to cross the border after the visa free policy was implemented?

    Wikipedia:

    The Ukrainian minority in Poland (Ukrainian: Українці, Ukrayintsi, Polish: Ukraińcy) was composed of approximately 51,000 people (including 11,451 without Polish citizenship[1]), according to the Polish census of 2011. Some 38,000 respondents named Ukrainian as their first identity (28,000 as their sole identity), 13,000 as their second identity, and 21,000 declared Ukrainian identity jointly with Polish nationality.[2]

    In 2011, Ukrainians had a very modest presence in Poland. If you put the number of Ukraine-born migrants in Russia (incl. from the Soviet period) and their Russia-born children at 5,100,000 — not unrealistic — 51,000 represent a whopping 1%.

    On 14 September 2018, 33,624 Ukrainian citizens possessed a permanent residence permit, and 132,099 had a temporary residence permit.[3] Between 1 and 2 million Ukrainian citizens are working in Poland

    As of 2 months ago, a measly 33k Ukrainians had permanent residence, and 132k had temporary residence permit. The rest have no residence of any kind, indicating transient migration. The visa free regime was meant for tourism only, but I have no doubt that many Ukrainians are abusing it & working instead, with the Poles turning a blind eye.

    Russia on the other hand has been receiving Ukrainians for generations, up to, and after 2014.

    As of 2015, there were approximately 4,358,046 Ukrainians in Russia. Also note that the tendency is for the number of self-identifying Ukrainians to decrease among their descendants as they become, ahem, ethnic Russians.

  41. @melanf

    I just call black person -рубероид. And only because of respect.

    • LOL: Hyperborean
  42. Josep says:
    @E

    Actually getting Russian citizenship seems out of the question due to the requirement to submit an application stating your intention to renounce your previous one

    Unless you’re an American citizen, in which case renouncing your citizenship would look more attractive than keeping it. Believe it or not, the United States is one of two countries (the other being Eritrea) that forces its citizens to pay taxes to both the country of residence and the country of citizenship. Not only is the US citizen forced to pay taxes twice, but all the money he/she spends on the American tax goes to the American war machine.

    ~~~

    I remember reading a comment elsewhere, saying:

    “There are at least 70 different ethnic groups in Russia and they all co-exists peacefully, what brings them together, not colour, not creed, not religion but nationhood and many gave their blood and soul to liberate their country from the Nazis.”

    Little question for Mr. Karlin: I don’t know if this has been asked and answered before, but do you consider the other ethnicities who live in Russia (e.g. Tatars and Chechens) to be “Russian”?

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