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Immigration statistics from the Ministry of Interior Affairs, 2016.

Total new citizenships: 265,319. (USA: 653,416 people in 2014, so about equal in per capita terms).

Ukraine: 100,696, up 49% from 2015. (Russians becoming Ukrainian citizens: About 2,000 per year).

It is utterly absurd that in per capita terms, there are as many Tajiks (0.27% of their population) getting RF citizenship as Ukrainians (0.24%), and three times as many Armenians (0.74% of their population). There is no humanitarian crisis in Tajikistan or in Armenia, whereas the population of just the LDNR – at war, under Ukrainian blockade – is greater than Armenia’s.

If Putin was truly the Putler of the Western imagination, Russia would be giving away RF passports like confetti in the LDNR. In reality, he is more of a Putlet.

***

TOTAL by country 265,319
Ukraine 100,696
Kazakhstan 37,837
Uzbekistan 23,216
Tajikistan 23,012
Armenia 22,264
Moldova, Republic of 17,397
PERSONS WITHOUT CITIZENSHIP 11,042
Azerbaijan 9,885
Kyrgyzstan 9,316
Belarus 3,582
Georgia 2,623
Turkmenistan 774
Turkey 500
Syrian Arab Republic 334
Afghanistan 300
Vietnam 287
Israel 170
Abkhazia 168
Lithuania 168
Germany 148
Egypt 142
Latvia 139
United States 92
Serbia 89
Bulgaria 84
Italy 71
China 66
South Ossetia 57
Bangladesh 53
Estonia 50
France 49
Greece 44
India 35
Iran, Islamic Republic of 33
Lebanon 33
Poland 31
Tunisia 31
Palestine, The State 30
Nigeria 28
Cuba 26
Morocco 24
Bosnia and Herzegovina 22
Iraq 22
Pakistan 22
Jordan 20
Algeria 17
United Kingdom (United Kingdom) 15
Cameroon 13
Montenegro 11
Australia 10
Yemen 10
Sudan 10
Belgium 9
Canada 9
Austria 8
Hungary 8
Spain 8
Colombia 8
Bolivia, a multinational state 7
Thailand 7
Brazil 6
Venezuela, Bolivarian Republic of 6
Congo 6
Mongolia 6
Romania 6
Sri Lanka 6
South Africa 6
Nepal 5
Netherlands 5
Peru 5
Finland 5
Switzerland 5
Ecuador 5
The Republic of Macedonia 4
Mexico 4
Norway 4
Czech Republic 4
Sweden 4
Benin 3
Ghana 3
Guinea-Bissau 3
Denmark 3
Korea, Republic of 3
Somalia 3
Albania 2
Gambia 2
Zimbabwe 2
Indonesia 2
Cyprus 2
Libya 2
Niger 2
Slovenia 2
Croatia 2
Ethiopia 2
Japan 2
Angola 1
Argentina 1
Bermuda 1
Burundi 1
Dominican Republic 1
Zambia 1
Ireland 1
Comoros 1
North Korea (North Korea) 1
Costa Rica 1
Malawi 1
Mali 1
Myanmar 1
Nicaragua 1
New Zealand 1
United Arab Emirates 1
Portugal 1
Slovakia 1
Sierra Leone 1
Tanzania, United Republic of 1
Togo 1
Uruguay 1
Philippines 1
Chad 1
Chile 1

 

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Immigration, Russia, Ukraine 
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  1. If Putin was truly the Putler of the Western imagination, Russia would be giving away RF passports like confetti in the LDNR. In reality, he is more of a Putlet.

    Still, it’s a good thing is that Ukraine is up 49% from 2015. Perhaps, Putin will ramp this up once he realises no new reset is in the offing.

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  2. Based on these data, 75% of new citizens come from Christian Nations, and 24% from Islamic Nations.

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  3. Mr Karlin would you have any inkling of the ethnic break down for those receiving Russian citizenship, for example how many of those 37,837 new Russians from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russian/Slavs. What about for the other former Soviet Republics what percentage of them are simply ethnic Russians returning to the Motherland.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Most of the ethnic Russians who were ever going to leave, left in the 1990s. Today I think it would be about 50% Kazakhs.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  4. I am interested in some those states with just 1, who and why are people from Togo, Burundi, Mali,Sierra Leon, etc, going to Russia, and why are they being let in ?

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    • Replies: @melanf
    Most likely it is the children from mixed families, or wives/husbands of citizens of Russia
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. @neutral
    I am interested in some those states with just 1, who and why are people from Togo, Burundi, Mali,Sierra Leon, etc, going to Russia, and why are they being let in ?

    Most likely it is the children from mixed families, or wives/husbands of citizens of Russia

    Read More
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  6. @Blinky Bill
    Mr Karlin would you have any inkling of the ethnic break down for those receiving Russian citizenship, for example how many of those 37,837 new Russians from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russian/Slavs. What about for the other former Soviet Republics what percentage of them are simply ethnic Russians returning to the Motherland.

    Most of the ethnic Russians who were ever going to leave, left in the 1990s. Today I think it would be about 50% Kazakhs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @A.A.
    No, overwhelming majority of emigrants from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russians. Kazakhstan keeps statistic data on ethnicity of their emigrants. According to official data in 2015 30.000 people emigrated from Kazakhstan. Out of those, 25,6 thousands left for Russia (2k to Germany, 605 people to Belarus and so on). More than 21.000 emigrants were ethnic Russians, followed by 2,3 thousand Germans, 2 thousand Ukrainians and 1,4 thousand Kazakhs.

    https://365info.kz/2016/04/vse-bolshe-kazahstantsev-emigriruet-za-rubezh-komstat/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. @Anatoly Karlin
    Most of the ethnic Russians who were ever going to leave, left in the 1990s. Today I think it would be about 50% Kazakhs.

    No, overwhelming majority of emigrants from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russians. Kazakhstan keeps statistic data on ethnicity of their emigrants. According to official data in 2015 30.000 people emigrated from Kazakhstan. Out of those, 25,6 thousands left for Russia (2k to Germany, 605 people to Belarus and so on). More than 21.000 emigrants were ethnic Russians, followed by 2,3 thousand Germans, 2 thousand Ukrainians and 1,4 thousand Kazakhs.

    https://365info.kz/2016/04/vse-bolshe-kazahstantsev-emigriruet-za-rubezh-komstat/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    That's a relief, thanks!

    I'm shocked that there are still some Germans left in Kazakhstan.
    , @neutral

    overwhelming majority of emigrants from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russians
     
    What precisely is an ethnic Russian ? Is it people who speak Russian as their native tongue, if so that could include many racially Central Asian looking people who happen to speak Russian. Is it only people that have white racial features ? Then what about all the mixed race people that inevitably happened in the past centuries in those regions, take Sergey Shoygu for example (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Shoygu) is he ethnic Russian ?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  8. @A.A.
    No, overwhelming majority of emigrants from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russians. Kazakhstan keeps statistic data on ethnicity of their emigrants. According to official data in 2015 30.000 people emigrated from Kazakhstan. Out of those, 25,6 thousands left for Russia (2k to Germany, 605 people to Belarus and so on). More than 21.000 emigrants were ethnic Russians, followed by 2,3 thousand Germans, 2 thousand Ukrainians and 1,4 thousand Kazakhs.

    https://365info.kz/2016/04/vse-bolshe-kazahstantsev-emigriruet-za-rubezh-komstat/

    That’s a relief, thanks!

    I’m shocked that there are still some Germans left in Kazakhstan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    As you know, nowadays these Germans tend to be people of part-German ancestry who speak no German.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. @A.A.
    No, overwhelming majority of emigrants from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russians. Kazakhstan keeps statistic data on ethnicity of their emigrants. According to official data in 2015 30.000 people emigrated from Kazakhstan. Out of those, 25,6 thousands left for Russia (2k to Germany, 605 people to Belarus and so on). More than 21.000 emigrants were ethnic Russians, followed by 2,3 thousand Germans, 2 thousand Ukrainians and 1,4 thousand Kazakhs.

    https://365info.kz/2016/04/vse-bolshe-kazahstantsev-emigriruet-za-rubezh-komstat/

    overwhelming majority of emigrants from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russians

    What precisely is an ethnic Russian ? Is it people who speak Russian as their native tongue, if so that could include many racially Central Asian looking people who happen to speak Russian. Is it only people that have white racial features ? Then what about all the mixed race people that inevitably happened in the past centuries in those regions, take Sergey Shoygu for example (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Shoygu) is he ethnic Russian ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @A.A.
    Ethnic Russians as in russkiye, an eastern Slavic ethnic group. Russian speaking Kazakhs count as Kazakhs (from some brief googling it seems that passports in Kazakhstan include data on ethnicity like they did in the USSR). Mixed marriages really aren't that much of a factor. In Kazakhstan, like in the rest of Central Asia, marriages between Russians and the locals are rare. By far most "mixed" marriages now and back in the Soviet times involved couples like Russian-Ukrainian or Russian-German and such.
    , @JL

    What precisely is an ethnic Russian ?
     
    This should be an interesting conversation. I've asked this question many times and don't think I've ever gotten the same answer twice.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. @neutral

    overwhelming majority of emigrants from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russians
     
    What precisely is an ethnic Russian ? Is it people who speak Russian as their native tongue, if so that could include many racially Central Asian looking people who happen to speak Russian. Is it only people that have white racial features ? Then what about all the mixed race people that inevitably happened in the past centuries in those regions, take Sergey Shoygu for example (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Shoygu) is he ethnic Russian ?

    Ethnic Russians as in russkiye, an eastern Slavic ethnic group. Russian speaking Kazakhs count as Kazakhs (from some brief googling it seems that passports in Kazakhstan include data on ethnicity like they did in the USSR). Mixed marriages really aren’t that much of a factor. In Kazakhstan, like in the rest of Central Asia, marriages between Russians and the locals are rare. By far most “mixed” marriages now and back in the Soviet times involved couples like Russian-Ukrainian or Russian-German and such.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Ethnic Russians as in russkiye, an eastern Slavic ethnic group.

    AK, is this correct?

    A. A., you didn't exactly outline any limiting features that would allow an impartial observer to make a decision as to who is Russian and who is not.
    , @Blinky Bill
    Just to add detail Christians with Christians, Muslims with Muslims and Buddhist such as the Koreans with Christians(Viktor Robertovich Tsoi) and Chinese Dungans with Muslims.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. @Felix Keverich
    That's a relief, thanks!

    I'm shocked that there are still some Germans left in Kazakhstan.

    As you know, nowadays these Germans tend to be people of part-German ancestry who speak no German.

    Read More
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  12. wtf are PERSONS WITHOUT CITIZENSHIP :D probably in limbo after the ussr or from countries that prohibit dual citizenship, but wouldn’t it be funny if Russia was becoming ancapistan?

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    • Replies: @anon
    People without citizenship could be Transdniesterians / South Ossetians / Abkhazians. Their papers are issued by a country which Russia doesn't recognize - that is, they have no papers, no citizenship.
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  13. Baltic emigrants may be ethnic Russians?

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  14. @A.A.
    Ethnic Russians as in russkiye, an eastern Slavic ethnic group. Russian speaking Kazakhs count as Kazakhs (from some brief googling it seems that passports in Kazakhstan include data on ethnicity like they did in the USSR). Mixed marriages really aren't that much of a factor. In Kazakhstan, like in the rest of Central Asia, marriages between Russians and the locals are rare. By far most "mixed" marriages now and back in the Soviet times involved couples like Russian-Ukrainian or Russian-German and such.

    Ethnic Russians as in russkiye, an eastern Slavic ethnic group.

    AK, is this correct?

    A. A., you didn’t exactly outline any limiting features that would allow an impartial observer to make a decision as to who is Russian and who is not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Generally speaking, only people with European features are considered Russian ( as in русский - ethnic Russian). There is no such concept as Black Russian or Asian Russian, like they exist in UK for instance.

    Though individuals are free to self-identify with any ethnic group. Russian population survey lets you identify as a Hobbit if you want to.
    , @Blinky Bill
    Slavic race, Orthodox religion, Russian language/culture. Said person must also identify as a member of the Russian race and be acknowledged as such by the Russian community. To be more exact they must be of Eastern Slavic Race not West or South Slav and members of the Russian Orthodox Church not Ukrainian or Moldavian for example. There are people of mixed race in Russia as there are in every country but they are a minority, an example been Sergey Kuzhugetovich Shoygu who is half Ethnic Russian and Half Tuvan of mixed Orthodox and Buddhist background but he has chosen to follow the Russian Christian faith. Of cause there are atheists of every race in Russia, this does not disqualify them from belonging to a given race.
    , @A.A.

    A. A., you didn’t exactly outline any limiting features that would allow an impartial observer to make a decision as to who is Russian and who is not.
     
    It's fairly easy in this case. It seems that Kazakhstan has kept the Soviet practise of identifying ethnicity (or национальность/natsional'nost as it's called in Russian) in passports and birth certificates. This allows an impartial observer to identify ethnic Russians, Ukrainians, Kazakhs and so on.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. Generally speaking, only people with European features are considered Russian ( as in русский – ethnic Russian). There is no such concept as Black Russian or Asian Russian, like they exist in UK for instance.

    Though individuals are free to self-identify with any ethnic group. Russian population survey lets you identify as a Hobbit if you want to.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  16. @iffen
    Ethnic Russians as in russkiye, an eastern Slavic ethnic group.

    AK, is this correct?

    A. A., you didn't exactly outline any limiting features that would allow an impartial observer to make a decision as to who is Russian and who is not.

    Generally speaking, only people with European features are considered Russian ( as in русский – ethnic Russian). There is no such concept as Black Russian or Asian Russian, like they exist in UK for instance.

    Though individuals are free to self-identify with any ethnic group. Russian population survey lets you identify as a Hobbit if you want to.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Glossy
    People in the UK tend to use "English" in an ethnic sense. A child of Pakistani immigrants born in London would call himself British but not English.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. @iffen
    Ethnic Russians as in russkiye, an eastern Slavic ethnic group.

    AK, is this correct?

    A. A., you didn't exactly outline any limiting features that would allow an impartial observer to make a decision as to who is Russian and who is not.

    Slavic race, Orthodox religion, Russian language/culture. Said person must also identify as a member of the Russian race and be acknowledged as such by the Russian community. To be more exact they must be of Eastern Slavic Race not West or South Slav and members of the Russian Orthodox Church not Ukrainian or Moldavian for example. There are people of mixed race in Russia as there are in every country but they are a minority, an example been Sergey Kuzhugetovich Shoygu who is half Ethnic Russian and Half Tuvan of mixed Orthodox and Buddhist background but he has chosen to follow the Russian Christian faith. Of cause there are atheists of every race in Russia, this does not disqualify them from belonging to a given race.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Thank you, some questions arise.

    To be more exact they must be of Eastern Slavic Race not West or South Slav and members of the Russian Orthodox Church not Ukrainian or Moldavian for example.

    ... mixed race in Russia ... half Ethnic Russian and Half Tuvan of mixed Orthodox and Buddhist background but he has chosen to follow the Russian Christian faith.

    Does this mean he is a Russian?

    Of cause there are atheists of every race in Russia, this does not disqualify them from belonging to a given race.


    You can't have it both ways. Russian Orthodox faith is required or it is not.
    , @anon
    It would be fairly difficult to belong to the "Moldavian Church", given that Moldova is a make-belief nation / state, and, up to this point, they have been unable to create a corresponding, make-belief, "national" church. Your conviction transpires through your words, and you must be very impressive for anyone who doesn't know these details.
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  18. @A.A.
    Ethnic Russians as in russkiye, an eastern Slavic ethnic group. Russian speaking Kazakhs count as Kazakhs (from some brief googling it seems that passports in Kazakhstan include data on ethnicity like they did in the USSR). Mixed marriages really aren't that much of a factor. In Kazakhstan, like in the rest of Central Asia, marriages between Russians and the locals are rare. By far most "mixed" marriages now and back in the Soviet times involved couples like Russian-Ukrainian or Russian-German and such.

    Just to add detail Christians with Christians, Muslims with Muslims and Buddhist such as the Koreans with Christians(Viktor Robertovich Tsoi) and Chinese Dungans with Muslims.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. @neutral

    overwhelming majority of emigrants from Kazakhstan are ethnic Russians
     
    What precisely is an ethnic Russian ? Is it people who speak Russian as their native tongue, if so that could include many racially Central Asian looking people who happen to speak Russian. Is it only people that have white racial features ? Then what about all the mixed race people that inevitably happened in the past centuries in those regions, take Sergey Shoygu for example (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Shoygu) is he ethnic Russian ?

    What precisely is an ethnic Russian ?

    This should be an interesting conversation. I’ve asked this question many times and don’t think I’ve ever gotten the same answer twice.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N

    I’ve asked this question many times and don’t think I’ve ever gotten the same answer twice.
     
    Next time try to ask a French or a German that question, for example, ask them if Zidane and Evra are French or if Podolski or Khedira are German.

    The question "who is Russian" is no more controversial than who is French, German, Swedish, or whomever.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  20. @Blinky Bill
    Slavic race, Orthodox religion, Russian language/culture. Said person must also identify as a member of the Russian race and be acknowledged as such by the Russian community. To be more exact they must be of Eastern Slavic Race not West or South Slav and members of the Russian Orthodox Church not Ukrainian or Moldavian for example. There are people of mixed race in Russia as there are in every country but they are a minority, an example been Sergey Kuzhugetovich Shoygu who is half Ethnic Russian and Half Tuvan of mixed Orthodox and Buddhist background but he has chosen to follow the Russian Christian faith. Of cause there are atheists of every race in Russia, this does not disqualify them from belonging to a given race.

    Thank you, some questions arise.

    To be more exact they must be of Eastern Slavic Race not West or South Slav and members of the Russian Orthodox Church not Ukrainian or Moldavian for example.

    … mixed race in Russia … half Ethnic Russian and Half Tuvan of mixed Orthodox and Buddhist background but he has chosen to follow the Russian Christian faith.

    Does this mean he is a Russian?

    Of cause there are atheists of every race in Russia, this does not disqualify them from belonging to a given race.

    You can’t have it both ways. Russian Orthodox faith is required or it is not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Blinky Bill
    Is an atheist Jew a Jew is atheist WASP a WASP some would argue they cant have it both ways but I disagree. As to whether Mixed race people are of one race or not Ill leave that up to you to decide. I personally don't believe a man who is half Japanese and half German is either German nor Japanese he is both simultaneously : )
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  21. @iffen
    Ethnic Russians as in russkiye, an eastern Slavic ethnic group.

    AK, is this correct?

    A. A., you didn't exactly outline any limiting features that would allow an impartial observer to make a decision as to who is Russian and who is not.

    A. A., you didn’t exactly outline any limiting features that would allow an impartial observer to make a decision as to who is Russian and who is not.

    It’s fairly easy in this case. It seems that Kazakhstan has kept the Soviet practise of identifying ethnicity (or национальность/natsional’nost as it’s called in Russian) in passports and birth certificates. This allows an impartial observer to identify ethnic Russians, Ukrainians, Kazakhs and so on.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  22. @iffen
    Thank you, some questions arise.

    To be more exact they must be of Eastern Slavic Race not West or South Slav and members of the Russian Orthodox Church not Ukrainian or Moldavian for example.

    ... mixed race in Russia ... half Ethnic Russian and Half Tuvan of mixed Orthodox and Buddhist background but he has chosen to follow the Russian Christian faith.

    Does this mean he is a Russian?

    Of cause there are atheists of every race in Russia, this does not disqualify them from belonging to a given race.


    You can't have it both ways. Russian Orthodox faith is required or it is not.

    Is an atheist Jew a Jew is atheist WASP a WASP some would argue they cant have it both ways but I disagree. As to whether Mixed race people are of one race or not Ill leave that up to you to decide. I personally don’t believe a man who is half Japanese and half German is either German nor Japanese he is both simultaneously : )

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Quite a few believe that you can't undo the Jew. :)

    Complex and meaningful questions.

    I claim no special expertise in answering these questions.

    I do notice when people make statements or present arguments that implicitly assert that the underlying questions have been answered in a concise and definitive manner.
    , @Glossy
    I'm an atheist of Ashkenazy ancestry and I think of myself as Jewish. I don't consider Madonna Ciccone or Ivanka Trump Jewish. The idea is ridiculous.

    I actually know a half-German, half-Japanese woman. I don't think of her as either German or Japanese. And I wouldn't call her "both" either. In my mind she's something else, a third, separate thing. A 7/8 German, 1/8 Japanese person would come off as German to most people, including me. A 7/8 German, 1/8 African person would come off as a mulatto.

    These terms tend to get defined the way most other words are defined - through an informal consensus of most speakers of a language. Where does "car" stop and "truck" begin? At a certain point on the size/shape/function graph you'll look ridiculous if you call a vehicle a truck. And people don't like looking ridiculous.

    There is an underlying reality behind the informal consensus of the majority. For ethnic terms this reality is biological.

    It's a bit like the color spectrum. The boundaries between the colors are a fuzzy, informal linguistic consensus. Attempts to define them exactly will seem arbitrary. However, the color spectrum is a real, physical phenomenon, and you WILL look ridiculous if you call green red.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  23. @Blinky Bill
    Is an atheist Jew a Jew is atheist WASP a WASP some would argue they cant have it both ways but I disagree. As to whether Mixed race people are of one race or not Ill leave that up to you to decide. I personally don't believe a man who is half Japanese and half German is either German nor Japanese he is both simultaneously : )

    Quite a few believe that you can’t undo the Jew. :)

    Complex and meaningful questions.

    I claim no special expertise in answering these questions.

    I do notice when people make statements or present arguments that implicitly assert that the underlying questions have been answered in a concise and definitive manner.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  24. @Felix Keverich
    Generally speaking, only people with European features are considered Russian ( as in русский - ethnic Russian). There is no such concept as Black Russian or Asian Russian, like they exist in UK for instance.

    Though individuals are free to self-identify with any ethnic group. Russian population survey lets you identify as a Hobbit if you want to.

    People in the UK tend to use “English” in an ethnic sense. A child of Pakistani immigrants born in London would call himself British but not English.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  25. @Blinky Bill
    Is an atheist Jew a Jew is atheist WASP a WASP some would argue they cant have it both ways but I disagree. As to whether Mixed race people are of one race or not Ill leave that up to you to decide. I personally don't believe a man who is half Japanese and half German is either German nor Japanese he is both simultaneously : )

    I’m an atheist of Ashkenazy ancestry and I think of myself as Jewish. I don’t consider Madonna Ciccone or Ivanka Trump Jewish. The idea is ridiculous.

    I actually know a half-German, half-Japanese woman. I don’t think of her as either German or Japanese. And I wouldn’t call her “both” either. In my mind she’s something else, a third, separate thing. A 7/8 German, 1/8 Japanese person would come off as German to most people, including me. A 7/8 German, 1/8 African person would come off as a mulatto.

    These terms tend to get defined the way most other words are defined – through an informal consensus of most speakers of a language. Where does “car” stop and “truck” begin? At a certain point on the size/shape/function graph you’ll look ridiculous if you call a vehicle a truck. And people don’t like looking ridiculous.

    There is an underlying reality behind the informal consensus of the majority. For ethnic terms this reality is biological.

    It’s a bit like the color spectrum. The boundaries between the colors are a fuzzy, informal linguistic consensus. Attempts to define them exactly will seem arbitrary. However, the color spectrum is a real, physical phenomenon, and you WILL look ridiculous if you call green red.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I don’t consider Madonna Ciccone or Ivanka Trump Jewish.

    Any explanation that would make sense to us for this view?
    , @Boris N

    A 7/8 German, 1/8 Japanese person would come off as German to most people, including me. A 7/8 German, 1/8 African person would come off as a mulatto.
     
    The goode olde Nuremberg laws and ODR. I have always had a suspicion that the Nazis took their laws from some old Jewish tradition, but just twisted it and used as a discrimination tool against Jews. But I like your approach somewhat. Though, I wouldn't agree Pushkin is a mulatto (poor Pushkin, everybody cite him in such discussions).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. @Glossy
    I'm an atheist of Ashkenazy ancestry and I think of myself as Jewish. I don't consider Madonna Ciccone or Ivanka Trump Jewish. The idea is ridiculous.

    I actually know a half-German, half-Japanese woman. I don't think of her as either German or Japanese. And I wouldn't call her "both" either. In my mind she's something else, a third, separate thing. A 7/8 German, 1/8 Japanese person would come off as German to most people, including me. A 7/8 German, 1/8 African person would come off as a mulatto.

    These terms tend to get defined the way most other words are defined - through an informal consensus of most speakers of a language. Where does "car" stop and "truck" begin? At a certain point on the size/shape/function graph you'll look ridiculous if you call a vehicle a truck. And people don't like looking ridiculous.

    There is an underlying reality behind the informal consensus of the majority. For ethnic terms this reality is biological.

    It's a bit like the color spectrum. The boundaries between the colors are a fuzzy, informal linguistic consensus. Attempts to define them exactly will seem arbitrary. However, the color spectrum is a real, physical phenomenon, and you WILL look ridiculous if you call green red.

    I don’t consider Madonna Ciccone or Ivanka Trump Jewish.

    Any explanation that would make sense to us for this view?

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    • Replies: @Glossy
    Ethnicity is largely genetic.
    , @Glossy
    There was an outcry a year or two ago over a white woman named Rachel Dolezal calling herself black. Why? For the same reason.

    Whatever you think of this view, it's obviously the view of the majority. No one defended Ms. Dolezal, not whites, not blacks, not liberals, not conservatives. I'm a big history nerd, so I know that this view of race and ethnicity has been the view of the majority since records have been kept.

    The question you should ask yourself is "why do I, iffen, disagree with the majority view of this issue?"
    , @neutral
    The Old Testament is a racial guide for the jews, it is not a spiritual text, jewishness has always been defined as who your parents are, not some Damascene conversion.
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  27. @iffen
    I don’t consider Madonna Ciccone or Ivanka Trump Jewish.

    Any explanation that would make sense to us for this view?

    Ethnicity is largely genetic.

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  28. @iffen
    I don’t consider Madonna Ciccone or Ivanka Trump Jewish.

    Any explanation that would make sense to us for this view?

    There was an outcry a year or two ago over a white woman named Rachel Dolezal calling herself black. Why? For the same reason.

    Whatever you think of this view, it’s obviously the view of the majority. No one defended Ms. Dolezal, not whites, not blacks, not liberals, not conservatives. I’m a big history nerd, so I know that this view of race and ethnicity has been the view of the majority since records have been kept.

    The question you should ask yourself is “why do I, iffen, disagree with the majority view of this issue?”

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    • Replies: @Glossy
    In the specific Jewish case, secular Jews treat Jewishness as an ethnicity. I, for example, have two half-Jewish cousins. I didn't invent the term "half-Jewish". It's used by everyone in my family, and just generally. Well, if we thought of Jewishness as a religion, we wouldn't use that term. What would it even mean? Moderately religious? There are other terms for that.

    Heavily religious Jews never marry anyone who isn't ethnically Jewish. Some of the people inbetween, neither very religious nor very secular, might consider Ivanka Trump Jewish. But that wouldn't be a lot of people.

    I mean, to her face people would tend to go along with whatever she's calling herself. But in private? No.
    , @iffen
    The question you should ask yourself is “why do I, iffen, disagree with the majority view of this issue?”

    I certainly would ask myself that question, G. I was unaware that I was in disagreement with the majority. Could you elaborate on my heresey?
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  29. @Glossy
    There was an outcry a year or two ago over a white woman named Rachel Dolezal calling herself black. Why? For the same reason.

    Whatever you think of this view, it's obviously the view of the majority. No one defended Ms. Dolezal, not whites, not blacks, not liberals, not conservatives. I'm a big history nerd, so I know that this view of race and ethnicity has been the view of the majority since records have been kept.

    The question you should ask yourself is "why do I, iffen, disagree with the majority view of this issue?"

    In the specific Jewish case, secular Jews treat Jewishness as an ethnicity. I, for example, have two half-Jewish cousins. I didn’t invent the term “half-Jewish”. It’s used by everyone in my family, and just generally. Well, if we thought of Jewishness as a religion, we wouldn’t use that term. What would it even mean? Moderately religious? There are other terms for that.

    Heavily religious Jews never marry anyone who isn’t ethnically Jewish. Some of the people inbetween, neither very religious nor very secular, might consider Ivanka Trump Jewish. But that wouldn’t be a lot of people.

    I mean, to her face people would tend to go along with whatever she’s calling herself. But in private? No.

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  30. @iffen
    I don’t consider Madonna Ciccone or Ivanka Trump Jewish.

    Any explanation that would make sense to us for this view?

    The Old Testament is a racial guide for the jews, it is not a spiritual text, jewishness has always been defined as who your parents are, not some Damascene conversion.

    Read More
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  31. @Glossy
    There was an outcry a year or two ago over a white woman named Rachel Dolezal calling herself black. Why? For the same reason.

    Whatever you think of this view, it's obviously the view of the majority. No one defended Ms. Dolezal, not whites, not blacks, not liberals, not conservatives. I'm a big history nerd, so I know that this view of race and ethnicity has been the view of the majority since records have been kept.

    The question you should ask yourself is "why do I, iffen, disagree with the majority view of this issue?"

    The question you should ask yourself is “why do I, iffen, disagree with the majority view of this issue?”

    I certainly would ask myself that question, G. I was unaware that I was in disagreement with the majority. Could you elaborate on my heresey?

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    • Replies: @Glossy
    I already did, as clearly as I could. Can't simply it further.
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  32. I used to hang out at an #atheism IRC channel. I think it was there that I first saw Scott Alexander of much later Slate Star Codex fame. This was probably around 2004. He was shockingly smart.

    Anyway, there was a guy on that channel from Ireland who used to tell the story of being asked if he was a Protestant or a Catholic. He said he was an atheist, which prompted the very logical follow-up: “are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?”

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  33. @iffen
    The question you should ask yourself is “why do I, iffen, disagree with the majority view of this issue?”

    I certainly would ask myself that question, G. I was unaware that I was in disagreement with the majority. Could you elaborate on my heresey?

    I already did, as clearly as I could. Can’t simply it further.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure.
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  34. @Glossy
    I already did, as clearly as I could. Can't simply it further.

    That’s what I thought, just wanted to make sure.

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  35. 35 Indians, the bridgehead is established.

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  36. I bet that other than the ‘Stans’ where there were lots of Russians living under the Bolshevik empire who are going back the rest are just Russian whores bringing back their favourite customer just as the Chinese whores do. No disrespect to Russian and Chinese Whores who are adventurous and wonderful. They are like spiders capturing men from all over the world and I mean they get men from all over the world to marry them something their men can’t do. Great show ladies.

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  37. @bb.
    wtf are PERSONS WITHOUT CITIZENSHIP :D probably in limbo after the ussr or from countries that prohibit dual citizenship, but wouldn't it be funny if Russia was becoming ancapistan?

    People without citizenship could be Transdniesterians / South Ossetians / Abkhazians. Their papers are issued by a country which Russia doesn’t recognize – that is, they have no papers, no citizenship.

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    • Replies: @A.A.

    People without citizenship could be Transdniesterians / South Ossetians / Abkhazians.

     

    Look closer, South Ossetians and Abkhazians are already on the list. 168 Abkhazians and 57 South Ossetians have been granted citizenship in Russia last year. Russia officially recognises Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent countries since 2008. And I'm pretty sure Transnistrians have all got passports from recognised states (Russia/Ukraine/Moldova) besides their own one.

    People without citizenship are literally those without citizenship. For example Estonia and Latvia did not automatically grant citizenship to those that moved there during Soviet times. That means that both countries to this day have some stateless residents living there.
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  38. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Blinky Bill
    Slavic race, Orthodox religion, Russian language/culture. Said person must also identify as a member of the Russian race and be acknowledged as such by the Russian community. To be more exact they must be of Eastern Slavic Race not West or South Slav and members of the Russian Orthodox Church not Ukrainian or Moldavian for example. There are people of mixed race in Russia as there are in every country but they are a minority, an example been Sergey Kuzhugetovich Shoygu who is half Ethnic Russian and Half Tuvan of mixed Orthodox and Buddhist background but he has chosen to follow the Russian Christian faith. Of cause there are atheists of every race in Russia, this does not disqualify them from belonging to a given race.

    It would be fairly difficult to belong to the “Moldavian Church”, given that Moldova is a make-belief nation / state, and, up to this point, they have been unable to create a corresponding, make-belief, “national” church. Your conviction transpires through your words, and you must be very impressive for anyone who doesn’t know these details.

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  39. @anon
    People without citizenship could be Transdniesterians / South Ossetians / Abkhazians. Their papers are issued by a country which Russia doesn't recognize - that is, they have no papers, no citizenship.

    People without citizenship could be Transdniesterians / South Ossetians / Abkhazians.

    Look closer, South Ossetians and Abkhazians are already on the list. 168 Abkhazians and 57 South Ossetians have been granted citizenship in Russia last year. Russia officially recognises Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent countries since 2008. And I’m pretty sure Transnistrians have all got passports from recognised states (Russia/Ukraine/Moldova) besides their own one.

    People without citizenship are literally those without citizenship. For example Estonia and Latvia did not automatically grant citizenship to those that moved there during Soviet times. That means that both countries to this day have some stateless residents living there.

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  40. You must already have known, but the story with DNR/LNR passports is a big lie. You were over-optimistic. Legally the bearers of those documents are considered Ukrainians, so the Kremlin literally confirms to their “dear Ukrainian partners” that “Donbass is Ukraine”. I knew from the beginning there had to be something phoney underneath, the Kremlin always lie. We had better call Putin not Putler, but Putliar.

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  41. By the way, the majority who got the citizenship in 2016 must have lived in Russia at least 3 years, usually all 5 years. So those Ukrainians have come at least in 2013. It is very unlikely they are post-2014 refugees. In theory we must expect a rise of Ukrainians in 2019.

    http://azbuka.consultant.ru/cons_doc_PBI_200945/

    Overall, even before 2014 a lot of Ukrainians have had a dual citizenship, in spite of its prohibition according to Ukrainian laws. So that when the UN calculated the number of Russian immigrants in Ukraine and Ukrainian immigrants in Russia they got nearly the same numbers. It seems they just counted dual-citizens who live in either country.

    http://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/maps-immigrants-and-emigrants-around-world

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  42. JL says:

    I tend to think the naturalization process in Russia goes a long way towards weeding out the low IQ and less desirables. In short, to get Russian citizenship, you have to really, really want it and be very resourceful in terms of time, money, and patience. And where you may be lacking in one area, it must be compensated for in the others.

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  43. @JL

    What precisely is an ethnic Russian ?
     
    This should be an interesting conversation. I've asked this question many times and don't think I've ever gotten the same answer twice.

    I’ve asked this question many times and don’t think I’ve ever gotten the same answer twice.

    Next time try to ask a French or a German that question, for example, ask them if Zidane and Evra are French or if Podolski or Khedira are German.

    The question “who is Russian” is no more controversial than who is French, German, Swedish, or whomever.

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    • Replies: @JL
    Fair enough, though I didn't mean to suggest that the question was controversial. More like, confused. And I'm not particularly interested in who is French, or whomever. It's just that people tend to answer this question very differently, and yet, in their view, definitively.
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  44. @Glossy
    I'm an atheist of Ashkenazy ancestry and I think of myself as Jewish. I don't consider Madonna Ciccone or Ivanka Trump Jewish. The idea is ridiculous.

    I actually know a half-German, half-Japanese woman. I don't think of her as either German or Japanese. And I wouldn't call her "both" either. In my mind she's something else, a third, separate thing. A 7/8 German, 1/8 Japanese person would come off as German to most people, including me. A 7/8 German, 1/8 African person would come off as a mulatto.

    These terms tend to get defined the way most other words are defined - through an informal consensus of most speakers of a language. Where does "car" stop and "truck" begin? At a certain point on the size/shape/function graph you'll look ridiculous if you call a vehicle a truck. And people don't like looking ridiculous.

    There is an underlying reality behind the informal consensus of the majority. For ethnic terms this reality is biological.

    It's a bit like the color spectrum. The boundaries between the colors are a fuzzy, informal linguistic consensus. Attempts to define them exactly will seem arbitrary. However, the color spectrum is a real, physical phenomenon, and you WILL look ridiculous if you call green red.

    A 7/8 German, 1/8 Japanese person would come off as German to most people, including me. A 7/8 German, 1/8 African person would come off as a mulatto.

    The goode olde Nuremberg laws and ODR. I have always had a suspicion that the Nazis took their laws from some old Jewish tradition, but just twisted it and used as a discrimination tool against Jews. But I like your approach somewhat. Though, I wouldn’t agree Pushkin is a mulatto (poor Pushkin, everybody cite him in such discussions).

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  45. >It is utterly absurd that in per capita terms, there are as many Tajiks (0.27% of their population) getting RF citizenship as Ukrainians (0.24%). There is no humanitarian crisis in Tajikistan

    Isn’t there, though? Once the Russians left, what has been happening there, other than a civil war that steeped the country into utter poverty?

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  46. @Boris N

    I’ve asked this question many times and don’t think I’ve ever gotten the same answer twice.
     
    Next time try to ask a French or a German that question, for example, ask them if Zidane and Evra are French or if Podolski or Khedira are German.

    The question "who is Russian" is no more controversial than who is French, German, Swedish, or whomever.

    Fair enough, though I didn’t mean to suggest that the question was controversial. More like, confused. And I’m not particularly interested in who is French, or whomever. It’s just that people tend to answer this question very differently, and yet, in their view, definitively.

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    OK, I see you are a foreigner and may not understand some topics are indeed controversial (or deliberately made so).
    So I suggest you to read this:
    https://sputnikipogrom.com/nationalism/61130/russians/
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  47. @JL
    Fair enough, though I didn't mean to suggest that the question was controversial. More like, confused. And I'm not particularly interested in who is French, or whomever. It's just that people tend to answer this question very differently, and yet, in their view, definitively.

    OK, I see you are a foreigner and may not understand some topics are indeed controversial (or deliberately made so).
    So I suggest you to read this:

    https://sputnikipogrom.com/nationalism/61130/russians/

    Read More
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