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Kommersant report on rumored upcoming changes to Russian legislation on immigration policy:

  • “Russia should be open not only to ethnic Russians and Russian speakers, but all those who are loyal to it and are prepared to integrate.
  • The President will get the right to specify certain groups of foreigners and allow them to undergo a simplified naturalization process for humanitarian reasons. This will apply to foreign citizens and people without citizenship who arrive in Russia from countries where they are “persecuted for political or other reasons, which have had revolutions, armed conflicts, or other emergencies.”
  • There will also be simplified naturalization procedures for participants in a program to repatriate Russians living abroad.
  • Officials openly say that the intended target of these policies is the Ukraine. Others also say that it may include Transnistria, Moldova, and the Baltics. These changes are linked to Putin’s open line on June 7, when a group of refugees from south-east Ukraine complained to him that they had no documents or opportunities to acquire them. Back then, Putin called for a “liberalization of the Russian naturalization process”, and we are now seeing the results of that.
  • In addition to the proposed law, there is also a new “concept” for reforming Russian immigration policy by 2025, which mostly centers around simplifying naturalization for certain categories of foreign professionals. One concrete suggestion that’s known to be included is dropping the requirement to disavow existing citizenships upon getting a Russian citizenship. Hungary, Romania, and Poland are cited as examples to emulate.

On the whole these changes look good, though there are certain points of concern.

1. The necessity to simplify citizenship procedures for people fleeing the Ukraine has long been evident. There are horror stories of Maidan regime opponents facing deportation every month. Fortunately, my impression is that the vast majority of these cases are overturned, but there have been a few that weren’t, with the result that Russophiles were sent back into the loving embrace of the SBU. This is ethically grotesque, and it is good that something is being done about it, even if it is at least four years too late.

2. That said, making “humanitarian reasons” a condition of simplified naturalization doesn’t change the existing, bureaucratically punishing process for Russians in Belorussia and Central Asia. It also opens the way for a #RefugeesWelcome scenario under a future liberally-inclined regime, e.g. if there’s a drought in Uzbekistan, or a new civil war in Tajikistan.

3. If Russia was a national state like Israel, it would introduce a “Russian Card” (карта русского) that any Russian abroad – including all Ukrainians and Belorussians, as subsets of the All-Russian nation – will have a right to. This Russian Card, which Russian nationalists have been advocating for at least the past decade, will allow its holders to access a range of government services in Russia, including simplified naturalization. But since the Russian Federation is not a national state, but a “multi-national” one (многонациональность), the Russian Card is not on the cards for the time being.

4. Dropping the requirement to disavow old citizenships upon naturalization is a very good idea that I have long advocated. This is a very stupid law that inhibits the growth of human capital in Russia, and which needs to be abolished ASAP. Qualified foreigners without a criminal record. who have some level of proficiency with the Russian language, should be allowed to become citizens without giving up their old citizenships. But the occasional extremely Russophile and/or idealist aside, a Finnish, Austrian, or even American citizenship are too valuable to just toss away, even with the best will in the world.

I know several expats in Moscow who speak fluent Russian (more or less) and would love to get Russian citizenship, but are held back from doing so by these rules. One is the long-term partner of a Russian citizen. Another is a descendant of Tsarist generals. Another is the descendant of a famous Russian composer part of whose family became White emigres. Another is a scientist at a prestigious Russian university. This is just off the top of my head. Any of these are much better candidates than some of the people whom Russia takes in.

The only downside I can think of is that this might annoy the very few individuals who actually have given up Western citizenships for a Russian one.

5. Moreover, I would go further and argue that Russia should also sell citizenships, like most of the “civilized” world does. It would be great if Russia were to become a refuge for, and benefit from, Western crooks. They will be portrayed as victims of Western human rights abuses, just like their Russian counterparts gallivanting around London. Shkreli did nothing wrong! But like the Russian Card idea, this will have to wait for another day.

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Immigration, Law, Russia 
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  1. Moreover, I would go further and argue that Russia should also sell citizenships, like most of the “civilized” world does. It would be great if Russia were to become a refuge for, and benefit from, Western crooks.

    That sounds horrible, why would you want such people as citizens? What would prevent them from using their ill-gotten wealth to buy influence in Russia and lobby for dubious policies? Sounds really strange for a nationalist. Citizenship should be a privilege given only to those truly deserving of it.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Dmitry
  2. Jon0815 says:

    .Dropping the requirement to disavow old citizenships upon naturalization is a very good idea that I have always advocated.

    This is fantastic news. I plan to immigrate to Russia myself (at the vanguard of the great migration of white Americans to what will c. 2045 become the new most powerful white-majority country), once I attain language fluency. But I didn’t want to renounce my US citizenship.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    , @Anonymous
  3. @German_reader

    1. It’s free money, and considerable money at that.
    2. With zero language or cultural connections, and a shot reputation, they’re not going to get any lobbying done. Russia isn’t the US. It’s the “oligarchs” who are afraid of the politicians, not the other way round.
    3. I care little for pieces of paper (e.g. citizenship certificates) precisely because I am a nationalist, not in spite of it.
    4. This will troll the West, especially the Brits.
    5. Related to that, it could help force the Brits to open serious negotiations on extraditing Russian crooks.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  4. melanf says:

    About the population of Ukraine, the Russian-speaking population of Central Asia and similar cases, I fully support the position of the author.

    As for everyone else, we should simply introduce tests in mathematics for all migrants (something like this: scored 90 points – you can live and work in Russia, scored 110 points – you can get citizenship). This will solve almost all problems with migrants, and without the slightest racial/ethnic/religious discrimination (mathematics is the same for all).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @German_reader
    , @anon
  5. @Anatoly Karlin

    Thanks for the answer. I still think it’s problematic, I did get the impression that ethnicity is rather important for your nationalism, and such opportunistic granting of citizenship to foreigners for purely financial reasons would weaken any ethnic, cultural or civilizational conception of citizenship imo.
    And a country like Britain is hardly something to emulate.

    • Replies: @melanf
  6. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    I disagree with his use of word “crooks” for all these people. Many innocent people are prosecuted as well, for not paying high taxes, or for falling into bad relations with authorities, or other people in their country.

    Allowing “safe haven” for people who fall in a bad situation with their home countries, makes the world a better place overall. I would hope this situation could be applied in either direction, if you (or any of us) fall into trouble, one day.

    This demographic could carry investment to a country, if their assets, often very significant, are moving with them. They will probably be very loyal, by necessity (due to bad relations with regimes of their home countries) Also their family and children, are usually nice and civilized people, with higher levels of education than average.

    In addition, in a geopolitical strategy game – this is regularly (already) a method for trolling other countries, and could be applied effectively to Ukraine, in particular.

  7. melanf says:
    @German_reader

    I did get the impression that ethnicity is rather important for your nationalism, and such opportunistic granting of citizenship to foreigners for purely financial reasons would weaken any ethnic, cultural or civilizational conception of citizenship imo.

    This option is only for a very limited number. Because of their small numbers, these people can not affect the ethnic composition or culture of the country

    • Replies: @notanon
  8. neutral says:

    A bad idea for the long term. With the exploding African populations Russia eventually will become an ever more desirable place once Western Europe and North America have become brown blobs. All those millions of Africans will easily found out what it means to be “prepared to integrate” on their smart phones.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @songbird
  9. notanon says:

    countries should never allow dual citizenship

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  10. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    This will solve almost all problems with migrants, and

    A simple/elegant solution for solving immigration problems in many countries of the world.

    If a country wants to reduce immigration overall, then it just needs to raise the level in the test – which could be eventually raised so high that only a very small number can pass, or none at all.

    However, it would result in more male immigration than female immigration, as men averagely score higher in maths than women. This could be solved with a quota system, or use of different examinations for men and women (with more difficult exams for men).

    Examination structure could be easily target for “cheating” – so would require much better security than in school exams.

  11. notanon says:
    @melanf

    Because of their small numbers, these people can not affect the ethnic composition or culture of the country

    lol

  12. @melanf

    Intelligent immigrants can be dangerous as well. They could become ethnic activists working against the interests of the ethnic majority of their host country.
    iirc many Islamists are graduates in engineering and similar technical fields where one has to be somewhat proficient at maths.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @melanf
  13. @Jon0815

    You want to pay US taxes for the rest of your life?

    Personally, I don’t trust the Putin regime to handle immigration reform properly. This will probably result in more Tajiks moving to Russia, regardless of what the original intention was.

  14. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    iirc many Islamists are graduates in engineering and similar technical fields where one has to be somewhat proficient at maths.

    It’s a good point.

    Also he would need to add loyalty testing for the immigrants. The end point, that immigrants can and should be tested, for their usefulness to a country, according to academic criteria like his – probably in the end it will evolve into something like trying to get a place in an elite American university, where they also look at many other desirable aspects, or also receive donations in exchange for places.

  15. melanf says:
    @neutral

    With the exploding African populations Russia eventually will become

    This trend is definitely not a threat to Russia (Africans will not move to Russia-in Western Europe it is easier to get, and they live in Western Europe much better). The only real problem for Russia (in the area of unwanted migration) is the massive influx of Muslim migrants from Central Asia

  16. @notanon

    Why not? There is nothing wrong with multiple citizenships. In the US you can have any number of citizenships before getting the US one (but not after, if you are a naturalized citizen). If you were born in the US, you have a right to the US citizenship no matter what. Some countries, like Canada, consider you a citizen forever, if you were one at any time in your life. FYI: if Ukraine does not allow it, this means that it should be allowed, as nobody sane wants to be like Ukraine.

  17. melanf says:
    @German_reader

    Intelligent immigrants can be dangerous as well.

    Of course, educated and intelligent jihadist is more dangerous than an uneducated and stupid jihadist. However, for one advanced in mathematics fan of ISIS exist 99 fans of ISIS who do not know what fraction is. That is, the tests will reduce the problem by 99%.

  18. notanon says:
    @AnonFromTN

    a nation should demand singular loyalty in return for the privilege of citizenship

    maybe make allowances if a citizen has a child with a foreigner – and that should be temporary until the child reaches the age of majority when they should choose

  19. @melanf

    That said, the amount of Africans has increased visibly in the two years I’ve been here. I consistently see at least one or two Negroes on any one day when I travel in Moscow using the Metro. This wasn’t the case a couple of years ago, when I encountered them a couple of times per month, on average.

  20. neutral says:
    @melanf

    Think of the immigrations acts in the 1960s of UK, France or USA, not many predicted the destructive demographic changes that occurred from them.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @JonC20
  21. @Anatoly Karlin

    How do they get to Russia? I know there’s still Patrice Lumumba university, are there other ways for Africans to get to Moscow?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  22. @AnonFromTN

    Even Ukraine makes allowances for “special” people:

    When journalists confront him about having double citizenship, Kolomoisky replies the law says nothing about triple citizenship. Impressively Jewish reply! :)

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  23. @German_reader

    I think quite a lot of them hawk various crap.

    Some restaurants also use them as exotic advertising boards, greeters, etc. (stupid post-sovok tradition that’s thankfully fading away).

    • Replies: @Jayce
  24. @Anatoly Karlin

    In a way, Benya symbolizes present-day Ukraine: ruthless and shameless thief posing as a “patriot”.
    His answer reminds me of Russian joke. A guy asks a Jew:
    - Why do Jews always answer your question with a question?
    - What do you think?

  25. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    My mother talks about how they were sexually harassed by African students on a train (all night train), already in the 1980s.

    I guess more civilized Africans, were sending their youth to Western universities even then.

    Soviet lifehacks – befriend and sponsor all the loser nationalities of the world, give them free weapons, pay for their stupid kids’ university.

  26. Jayce says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    In Peter they hang out by the Admirality at night and press gang unsuspecting tourists into those Neva river cruises.

  27. @AnonFromTN

    Can a man serve two masters?

    Only a single citizenship should be permitted.

    There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all … The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic … There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

    -President Theodore Roosevelt

    I want to say — I cannot say too often — any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.

    If I can catch any man with a hyphen in this great contest I will know that I have got an enemy of the Republic.

    -President Woodrow Wilson

    Skin in the game.

  28. Joach says:

    Russia is afraid of offending the feelings of the Near Abroad nonwhite countries and alienating them in the process, that’s why it tries to walk a fine line: don’t go nationalist, but has an implicity understanding that the law is meant to facilitate and encourage the migration of Slavs from Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltics and the remaining ones from Central Asia (here Germans are included).

    The problem with this approach is that the bureaucracy may not always ‘get it’, and liberast elements may help racial undesirables get asylum and whatnot. Putin must be firm and direct regarding who will be eligible for simplified naturalization.

    The correct path is for Russia to become a national state of Eastern Slavs while also wooing other European ethnicities with an easy path to citizenship and allowing dual citizenship. It has the capacity to surpass the United States, it’s patently clear that the US human capital is set to decrease due to miscegenation between whites and Mestizos/Negroes (Brazil 2.0), and on top of this growing trend, a majority of newborns are already nonwhite. Migration notwithstanding, miscegenation is also a factor, for every mixed newborn a white woman conceives, one is added to the nonwhite category and ‘excluded’ from the white one. Since this has been the trend since 2011, a majority of children below the age of 5 are non-white, and children with Mestizo and Negro ancestry are a solid majority among them. This generation is a time bomb.

    I have mixed feelings about the latest change for the reason outlined above, but the migration policy of Russia changes every a few years, and nothing impedes Putin from, who knows, declaring the white majority in the Anglosphere victims of a policy of deliberate demographic replacement, dispossession and elite hostility, “which is leading to their demise and could have been avoided”.

    BTW, a list of Afrikaner families is being compiled for resettlement in 2019. They can choose between 3 regions, all of them in European Russia. This and the news about the migration policy change means there’s also reason to be optimistic — no country dares touch the Afrikaner refugee issue — but the fact remains that “Russia should be open not only to ethnic Russians and Russian speakers, but all those who are loyal to it and are prepared to integrate” is ambiguous at best. It’s ok if the implied non-ethnic Russians are of other European ethnicity, but if not, this change could also be a disaster. Again, it will depend on Putin and the security apparatus around him to which the bureaucracy is subservient to (“no blacks or arabs, ok?”).

  29. @Thorfinnsson

    The US can afford to insist on single citizenship, but it’s less advisable for a loser (in relative terms) country like Russia.

    Anyhow, one problem with double citizenship is that you’ll harbor if not enemies, then at least people who are plainly not all that invested in American success (myself before I left, most of the Russians and Ukrainians here, Daniel Chieh if he’s really being honest I suspect – though Talha of all people might well be genuine, LOL). But set against that you also gain in influence – foreign government officials who can be cajoled into serving American interests against their own country (like this Russian official), people who want to invest in the US (though this is more relevant for the UK), etc.

    Basically I view citizenship in almost exclusively instrumental terms. Just as a dog that’s born in a stable isn’t a horse, you won’t make it a horse by bribing the vet to write out the appropriate certificate either.

    PS. That said people should be made to declare their second citizenships and this should apply when applying for high security jobs, they obviously shouldn’t be allowed to be high officials (municipal gov’t is fine), possibly they should not even have voting rights. But many of these less radical policies exist anyway.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Thorfinnsson
  30. anon[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @melanf

    As for everyone else, we should simply introduce tests in mathematics for all migrants (something like this: scored 90 points – you can live and work in Russia, scored 110 points – you can get citizenship). This will solve almost all problems with migrants, and without the slightest racial/ethnic/religious discrimination (mathematics is the same for all).

    problem is many from countries like India can pass 110 and might consider it an upgrade to move to Russia and before you know it your country is filled with them

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Numinous
  31. anon[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @neutral

    we in the U.S. had Sen. Ted Kennedy’s assurance

  32. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Of course Karlin knows this, and might be the main expert on this topic, but for other people who might not know – Russia already allows dual, triple, quadruple, quintuple, etc, citizenship. (I personally met someone with quadruple citizenship).

    From individual viewpoint, (I don’t think any of us have any political power, in any countries, so individual viewpoint is the relevant area for us), it’s a good idea to try to have two citizenships.

    This gives you more opportunities, as well as insurance policy against negative geopolitical or other events.

    If you can give any advice to your readers, this would not be a bad one.

    (I still don’t have any other passports – and with some inconvenience, but my longterm plan to obtain a dual or triple citizenship).

  33. Dmitry says:
    @anon

    But then he could increase entry to 150, and then may only receive a few scientists a year from there.

  34. songbird says:
    @neutral

    Any modern immigration system really should include a DNA test. It is cheap enough, and basically a foolproof guard against diversitarianism.

  35. @Anatoly Karlin

    I see utility in dual citizenship for countries that are not at the top tier of economic development. When the Philippines legalized dual citizenship they unveiled a new oath requiring filipinos with foreign passports (mostly US passports) to affirm the supreme authority of the Philippines over other countries.

    But it’s still unseemly.

    And actually, if you think about it, the most desirable things in the world are generally hard to acquire. Take being an Eagle Scout for instance. Or a special forces operator. Highly desirable and commands immediate respect.

    US citizenship for instance was much more attractive when immigration was highly restricted and the naturalization process was taken so seriously that a sponsor was required–and the sponsor was criminally liable if the immigrant in question turned out to be a bad hombre. Now it’s a fucking scrap of paper. When my father was naturalized he was embarrassed at what a joke the process was.

    I’ve met a number of older European-Americans who came over either under the old system or when the attitudes of the old system prevailed. They talk about how they proudly became Americans and love this country.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  36. JonC20 says:
    @neutral

    They may not have predicted it, but they certainly counted on it.

  37. utu says:

    This is a Trojan horse that AK is advocating. Th emphasis should be opposite: Be easy on permanent residence that can be revokes so is not really permanent and be very hard on being naturalized. I would be only for citizenship to born in Russia from foreigner parents upon reaching age 18 but only after passing assimilation test.

  38. @Thorfinnsson

    I love your work here, but you quote two men who did more than just about any other to destroy the bonds of Americans to our local communities, and replace those bonds with tenuous bonds of imperial bullshit.

    What makes TR’s statement especially asinine is that an America of regional and ethnic identities was nonetheless able to come together not once, but TWICE, under arms, to win wars. First, in 1775-83, and again in 1861-65. When George Washington wrote “my country,” most of the time he meant Virginia, not America. He meant his Virginia of Anglican cavaliers, more than a little different from the Presbyterians of the PA backcountry, or the Calvinist Yankees up north. By the time of the War Between the States, the ethnic admixture was even starker, and the rivalry between Midwestern Yankees and Eastern Yankees very deep, yet they still fought together.

    So, frankly, TR can shove off. This is the same guy who helped start the asinine Spanish-American War in large part because he felt a sense of inward shame at his father’s lack of combat service in 1861-65.

    And then Wilson, for crying out loud, is nothing less than a bad, bad man. His going into a coma was one of the best pieces of luck ever. Sadly, we did not sufficiently exploit it during the following GOP administrations and ended up with FDR, who put the capstones on TR and Wilson’s transition to empire.

  39. @Thorfinnsson

    I imagine I agree with what you’re saying in TODAY’s context, when we’re dealing with peoples coming here from non-Northern European realms, but these two guys – TR and Wilson – were flat out wrong and should only be quoted with reservations. TR, for example, says America can’t be a intricate knot of nations. What a joke! America WAS, in many respects, an intricate knot of nations when it won the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. That was the whole point of federalism. I am not a fan of Madison or Hamilton, though, and their visions for a forerunner to the unitary imperial state. I’ll take Patrick Henry and Luther Martin every day over Madison.

    As for Wilson, thanks for intervening in WW1, Woodrow. If he hadn’t done that, the Soviet Union quite probably never would have happened.

    Granted, I’m biased because both of those guys – TR and Wilson – represent a busybody ideology that spat on us Pennsylvania Germans and made us give up our Pennsylvania Dutch language with their stupid public schools, even though we were more than capable of speaking both languages and participating in the broader American collective life. I’m with Bill Kauffman; America needs localism again.

  40. Lol says:

    Actually, Shkreli did (almost) no wrong. He lied at some point about his portfolio, but the people who were lied to did not incur any losses. The stories about poor AIDS patients being unable to buy meds from him are blatant lies. Those people have their healthcare subsidized by the government to a large degree.

    Shkreli has the Southeastern European frankness that worked against him. He mocked Hillary Clinton, and this why he is in jail now. Surely, America being a free country, no one is concerned about Elizabeth Holmes getting away with far worse. She bribed senators and generals, she managed to fleece the Pentagon for supposed battlefield trials, but she is free. After all, her ‘trial’ was a bunch of meetings with Mattis. A good American doesn’t ask for a lock of hair from Mattis, like Shkreli would do.

    America and the Balkans are extremely incompatible. Shkreli did in business what Tesla did in engineering – proved the US dominant class wrong. Americans don’t like to see that in an outsider. They like their imports well-behaved, and paying lip service to their country. They like to imagine Einstein was American, as if that makes them smarter.

    Anyone who tarnishes Shkreli’s name loses my attention.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Fidelios Automata
  41. utu says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The only reason dual citizenship is tolerated in the US is because of Jews and Israel. There also was a law against serving in military forces of a foreign country. It was challenged in court by some Jewish guy and it is no longer enforced at least when the foreign country is Israel. Serving in Taliban military earns you a long prison sentence.

    Did AK renounce his American citizenship? His position might be self serving.

    • Replies: @Fidelios Automata
  42. utu says:
    @Lol

    America and the Balkans are extremely incompatible.

    Not all Balkans are equal. He is Albanian. Albanians have a long way to go to change the stereotype they have earned and Shkrel only reinforced it.

  43. The thing that sucks about American citizenship is that the IRS thinks it has the right to tax you around the world and that the State Dept. thinks it can tell you where you can and cannot go. This is something Trump would address if he were truly a populist. If I was a younger man with fewer ties, I’d renounce my US citizenship the second I found a reasonable alternative.

  44. @utu

    At the very least, the US should forbid dual citizens from running for office or working for the government at any level. If they don’t like it, go back to Israel.

  45. @Lol

    Shkreli screwed the taxpayer, which is not OK even if everybody else is doing it.

    • Replies: @Lol
  46. Anonymous[471] • Disclaimer says:

    A distinction *MUST* be made between ethnic white Europeans, (the preferred group), and the rest of the world.

  47. Anonymous[471] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jon0815

    One cannot have two mothers.

    Choose one or the other.

  48. Anonymous[471] • Disclaimer says:
    @melanf

    Don’t count on it.

    If Russian living standards ever converge with western Europe’s, you can bet your boots that they will come.

    Who, just who would have been insane enough to predict massive African immigration to Finland, as just one example, a mere 40 years ago?

    • Replies: @melanf
  49. Anonymous[471] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    So, how’s the market for illicit drugs in Moscow?

  50. melanf says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    That said, the amount of Africans has increased visibly in the two yea

    Here are the persons who received Russian citizenship for the first half of 2018, according to the previous citizenship:

    [MORE]

    Abkhazia 75 people,

    Australia 1 person,

    Austria 2 persons,

    Azerbaijan 5668 people,

    Albania 1 person

    Algeria 9 persons,

    Argentina 1 person,

    Armenia 12989 people,

    Afghanistan 223 people,

    Bangladesh 8 people,

    Belarus 2140 people,

    Benin 1 person,

    Bulgaria 35 people,

    Bolivia 1 person,

    Bosnia and Herzegovina 19 people,

    Brazil 4 persons,

    UK 9 people,

    Hungary 1 person,

    Venezuela 1 person,

    Vietnam 199 people,

    Ghana 5 people,

    Guinea 1 person,

    Germany 97 people,

    Greece 31 people,

    Georgia 1150 people,

    Denmark 1 person,

    Dominican Republic 1 person,

    Egypt 74 people,

    Zambia 1 person,

    Israel 76 people,

    India 24 people,

    Indonesia 1 person,

    Jordan 17 people,

    Iraq 14 people,

    Iran 14 people,

    Spain 8 people,

    Italy 32 people,

    Yemen 17 people,

    Kazakhstan 21266 people,

    Cameroon 8 people,

    Canada 3 persons,

    Kenya 1 person,

    Kyrgyzstan 4392 people,

    China 34 people,

    Colombia 1 person,

    Of the Congo 4,

    Republic of the Congo 2 human,

    Republic of Korea 2 persons,

    Côte d’ivoire 1 person,

    Cuba 13 people,

    Latvia 68 people,

    Lebanon 15 people,

    Lithuania 71 people,

    Macedonia 5 people,

    Morocco 16 persons,

    Moldova 7759 people,

    Mongolia 4 persons,

    Nepal 2 persons,

    Nigeria 8 people,

    Netherlands 2 persons,

    Nicaragua 1 person,

    New Zealand 1 person,

    Pakistan 13 people,

    Palestine 17 people,

    Peru 2 persons,

    Poland 10 people,

    Romania 4 persons,

    Senegal 2 persons,

    Serbia 70 people,

    Syria 190 people,

    Slovakia 1 person,

    Slovenia 1 person,

    USA 53 people,

    Sudan 2 persons,

    Tajikistan 16324 people,

    Thailand 2 persons,

    Tunisia 17 people,

    Turkmenistan 440 people,

    Turkey 241 people,

    Uzbekistan 9879 people,

    Ukraine 39582 people,

    Uruguay 1 person,

    France 36 people,

    Croatia 1 person,

    Chad 1 person,

    Montenegro 4 persons,

    Czech Republic 2 persons,

    Sweden 1 person,

    Ecuador 2 persons,

    Estonia 20 people,

    Ethiopia 1 person,

    South Ossetia 23 people,

    stateless persons 2827 people,

    noncitizens of Latvia 5 people, other countries 10 people.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @melanf
    , @anonymous
  51. melanf says:
    @melanf

    continuation:
    The total number of all emigrants from black Africa who have received citizenship is less than the number of immigrants from the United States or Germany who have received Russian citizenship. I am against granting Russian citizenship to the inhabitants of the Congo (4 people), but even ten times more is not a real problem.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  52. melanf says:
    @melanf

    The real problem is Central Asia: 40,000 migrants who have taken Russian citizenship.
    Half of them are “Russian-speaking” (i.e. Russians/Ukrainians/Germans/Koreans/Tatars/..) the best migrants for Russia. But the other half – muslims with low level of education.

    From non-ex-USSR countries negative case Afghanistan (221 new citizen). Positive case of Vietnam (199 people). Vietnamese in my opinion, are desirable for Russia migrants and for them should be given citizenship: for example, in the Czech Republic, they are well integrated. The Chinese (34 people) and Indians (24 people) do not want to settle in Russia (which is rather sad, because as far as I know from the American experience, these people successfully integrate)

  53. @melanf

    I agree. It is good that almost none of them are getting citizenship, even as there’s more of them in the streets.

  54. melanf says:
    @Anonymous

    If Russian living standards ever converge with western Europe’s, you can bet your boots that they will come.

    Well, Moscow and St. Petersburg are approximately at the level of Western Europe. In Siberia, there are regions where the standard of living is even higher. So far, Africans do not want to move here. Perhaps the Western propaganda about super poor Russia helps?

    Who, just who would have been insane enough to predict massive African immigration to Finland, as just one example, a mere 40 years ago?

    I’m not familiar with the topic, but 2 weeks ago I was in the town of Imatra (a Finnish town near the border with Russia). Town fully “white” – the only non white face which I saw was a Chinese student-nerd

  55. Numinous says:
    @anon

    There are more Russians/Ukrainians in India than Indians in Russia today. That’ll probably make your white supremacist head explode, but whatever.

  56. Mitleser says:
    @melanf

    Our Finnish sister city is right next to the Russian border.
    It is not surprising that there would not be many non-whites there.

  57. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    They’re good quotes.

    Unlike you, I am not an old stock American. First person in my family to be born in this great country.

    I am aware of the regional rivalries in our country, but I consider them petty and ridiculous.

    I don’t know that Wilson was a bad man, but certainly entering WW1 was an error.

  58. There are more Russians/Ukrainians in India than Indians in Russia today.

    I think the same is true for China.

    That’ll probably make your white supremacist head explode, but whatever.

    Not really. The Russians in India and China are usually doing the jobs locals won’t do, i.e., stuff that requires high IQ and creativity. (Professors and artists.)

    Well, that or they’re downshifting to places where you can get a personal servant for cheap.

    • Replies: @Numinous
  59. anonymous[374] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Take being an Eagle Scout for instance.

    I’m not sure this is true outside of Utah. Boy Scouts have had a dorky reputation since the 1980s. The organization’s downfall has little to do with gays as Karlin would be inclined to link it to but inter-generational change.

  60. Lol says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    Don’t be daft. He was not even tried for pricing up drugs. In response to Shkreli cornering the market, FDA could have eased imports, eased approval for copycat drugs, provide incentives for newer (an likely better) alternatives, or even create a legal mechanism to make patent owners more cooperative with copycat manufacturers. Instead, Shkreli was sentenced for lying to private investors about the size of his investment fund – a charge that has nothing to do with ‘taxpayers’.

    The fund was specialized in proving some patent holders wrong. But of course US legal system, and the propaganda machine brainwashing you, would side with the Elizabeth Holmeses. It goes hand in hand with FDA’s refusal to implement any of the above 4 mechanisms.

    Do you have any clue about what you are writing?

  61. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    Well, Moscow and St. Petersburg are approximately at the level of Western Europe. In Siberia, there are regions where the standard of living is even higher. So far, Africans do not want to move here.

    Simply – if they wanted to be in Russia without documents and visas, they would have to cross Schengen area (where there is relatively free movement), and then across a non-free movement border (twice) Ukraine/Belarus, or (once) through the Baltic States/Finland.

    You see the most illegal African arrivals in Israel (because they could walk into the border, until 2014), and in Spain/Italy/Greece (because direct sea routes).

    Once inside Spain/Italy/Greece, they can relatively freely travel across the Schengen area (where there are often no passport checks across borders), so it is a transition point.The sea journey to Spain/Italy/Greece is more dangerous for them, but also with the highest reward, as it opens the Schengen area.

    From Schengen area itself, they cannot move freely into Russia, but need a visa or to embark in an illegal border cross. Needless to say, the country within Schengen area where you can easily receive citizenship and welfare, are like Germany/Sweden.

  62. utu says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    TR assured Wilson’s election. TR run on the third party ticket in 1912 to make sure William Howard Taft was not reelected. The same feat was repeated in 1992 by by Ross Perot who’s running assured that George H. W. Bush was nor reelected and we ended up with Clinton. In both cases there was a reason why the incumbent president had to be stopped. The Deep Sate runs deep.

    That you do not like TR is not a reason not to like what he said about hyphenated Americans.

  63. anonymous[409] • Disclaimer says:
    @melanf

    The low numbers (around 30 people) of Chinese is interesting. (There are 6-7 times more Vietnamese even.) I wonder if the estimate of 400,000 Chinese in Russia is now in need of a downward revision. If that is the case, it really should be discussed more and will help boost bilateral relations because too many people in Russia still seem to fear a horde from China crossing over the river or something.

  64. @melanf

    I’m not familiar with the topic, but 2 weeks ago I was in the town of Imatra (a Finnish town near the border with Russia). Town fully “white” – the only non white face which I saw was a Chinese student-nerd

    In the (North Savonia) ancestral village of the Finnish side of my family, there is a Liberian child in one of the classes my cousin teaches.

    But from observations of a few evenings (so maybe not representative) in Helsinki spaced a year or two between – not so many non-white residents:

    -Many ‘ethnic restaurants’, but not so many on the streets (do they never leave their workplaces?).

    -Occasional Somali waste.

    -Comparative large increase in Arab-looking asylum seekers by the second visit.

    • Replies: @notanon
  65. @melanf

    Those “refugees” are seeking freebies. They are getting those from Merkel and some Northern European countries, so they stream to Germany, Sweden, Finland, etc. These countries should not complain: they are committing suicide voluntarily, voting for the traitors that rule them. Nobody is getting freebies from Hungary, Russia, and many other countries, so the “refugees” don’t go there, as in those countries you have to earn your keep.

  66. @anonymous

    Qi ensured that only legal Chinese are in Russia. They still might be in hundreds of thousands, but they are not citizens, just permanent residents or people with visas and work permits.

  67. @anonymous

    There is a miniscule Vietnamese community in Moscow, while there is no real “Chinatown” anywhere.

    It doesn’t need to be explained because only a few weirdos worry about “Chinese hordes” and Russian approval of China is around 70% (vs. 25-30% for the US/EU).

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @AP
  68. melanf says:
    @anonymous

    he low numbers (around 30 people) of Chinese is interesting. (There are 6-7 times more Vietnamese even.) I wonder if the estimate of 400,000 Chinese in Russia is now in need of a downward revision.

    According to rough estimates, in Russia constantly live 220 000 Chinese, and 40,000 Vietnamese. Why Vietnamese are more actively getting Russian citizenship is a mystery to me

    • Replies: @utu
  69. @Anatoly Karlin

    Totally insane US policies made the alliance between Russia and China inevitable. Culturally, Russia and China are very different, but the fact that “rabid dog” US is a clear threat to both brings them together. Years ago Pat Buchanan said that because of insane American policies, when the US desperately needs Russia to contain China, Russia won’t be there for the US.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  70. utu says:
    @melanf

    During the Vietnam war there was many Vietnamese students in the Soviet block and many stayed and when communism went down their friends and families began to come.

  71. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Only Chinese I saw in Moscow were tourists. I did see a lot of Chinese traders in Chelyabinsk a few years ago. Has this been ended?

  72. Hunter says:

    The Russia Card idea is interesting, but I think the system that would be more likely to pass with the Russian Federation as the state and government are currently set up would be a “Soviet Card” or “Eurasia Card” where any citizen of a former Soviet state/Eurasian will have a right to and it will include access to some basic (or cheap/free) government services and rights in Russia BUT more premium services such as simplified naturalization would be based on criteria such as fluency in Russian, and other measures of how well a person would be able to integrate into Russian society.

    In essence something like the old scheme that India operated with Overseas Citizenship of India Card and the Person of Indian Origin Card but without using two different documents. Instead they would have one document which would provide perhaps simplified work permit procedures but not permanent residency requirements, UNLESS the holder qualifies for the critieria outlined previously in which case they can either be eligible for simplified naturalization procedures (maybe like Canada’s system), or maybe even automatic permanent residency.

    Countries in the former USSR that move further away from Russia (e.g. Turkmenistan and to a lesser extent Uzbekistan) will see their citizens eligible for the basic card but over time this distance from Russia by the government and/or society will mean most wouldn’t be eligible for the premium benefits anyway, while citizens from countries like Belarus, Ukraine, South Ossetia, Abkhazia and perhaps Armenia will more likely than not have an easier time qualifying for the premium benefits.

  73. notanon says:
    @Hyperborean

    Many ‘ethnic restaurants’, but not so many on the streets (do they never leave their workplaces?

    most of them will be illegals so probably yes

    illegal workers (or legal but working in conditions that would be illegal) usually are stowed 12+ to a house or apartment and send most of their (low) earnings home as remittances so they have little or no spending cash.

    (this is one of the reasons for mass child sex trafficking as millions of illegal workers with almost no cash create a demand for ultra cheap prostitution)

  74. Aslangeo says:

    Regarding a Russian card, similar to a person of Indian origin (PIO), why not extend it to anyone from an ethnicity that has traditionally been part of the Russian federation, after all how many udmurts, yakuts, buryats and Chuvash are there.

    I would stop it at grandparent level like the Irish. This would make it easier for people of Russian ancestry to visit. The only concern I would have is about people of chechen or Circassian ancestry from the Middle East bit the grandparent rule should stop most if not all of these

  75. Numinous says:
    @anonymous coward

    The Russians in India and China are usually doing the jobs locals won’t do, i.e., stuff that requires high IQ and creativity. (Professors and artists.)

    I don’t know about China, but in India they are known for their involvement in the drug business (in Goa, one of our states) or the prostitution business. So, no to your conjecture about professors or artists.

  76. @AnonFromTN

    Totally insane US policies made the alliance between Russia and China inevitable. Culturally, Russia and China are very different, but the fact that “rabid dog” US is a clear threat to both brings them together.

    Russia and China were always neighbors, and always cooperated to punish hostile invaders together. (Back in those days the invaders were horse nomads like Mongolians, but whatever.)

    The current 2018 Russia-China alliance isn’t something new or unexpected or surprising.

    Only sovoks who were poisoned by Soviet propaganda and never learned Russian history think otherwise.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  77. @anonymous coward

    Sorry to disappoint, but the only truth in your comment is that Russian and Chinese Empires were always neighbors. Russia and China are culturally incompatible. Those who know history (as opposed to those who pretend to know history) remember that when Western invaders snatched pieces of weak China (eighteenth and nineteenth century), Russian Empire did exactly the same thing, taking big chunks of Chinese northern possessions.
    Again, those who actually know history remember that Mongols and allied tribes (collectively called Tatars in Russia, although many of them weren’t Turkish-speaking Tatars) conquered both China (Yuan dynasty were Mongols) and Russia (Golden Horde period, until Ivan III in 1480 successfully defied Mongols, essentially winning Russian independence).
    Soviet Russia and Communist China had a brief friendship (1945-56), but then had many border skirmishes after Khruschev denounced Stalin, which almost turned into a serious war in times of Brezhnev.
    Nixon’s visit to China in 1972 was a great strategic victory for the US, bringing China almost to its side against the USSR.
    In contrast, the US policies in the 21st century nullified that diplomatic victory and pushed Russia and China (both reluctant and full of reservations) to unite against a common threat of increasingly mad dying Empire.

  78. melanf says:

    Sorry to disappoint, but the only truth in your comment is that Russian and Chinese Empires were always neighbors. Russia and China are culturally incompatible.

    The statement is absolutely unsubstantiated. What proves this incompatibility?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  79. @melanf

    Someone who has nothing better to do can write a thick book about it. I’ll limit my response to just two examples. One, listen to Chinese music, and then to Russian. Do they have anything in common? Here is your answer. Two, in Chinese culture (like in most Oriental cultures) it is believed necessary to bow to authority. Say, as soon as the government told the Chinese that it’s good to travel to various historic places in China, those places became crowded. There are so many Chinese tourists on the Great Wall and in the Forbidden City in Beijing that it’s useless to visit these places now: all you see is hordes of people. In contrast, in Russian culture it is considered de rigueur to defy the authority. There is even a joke about an old NY cop, who the boss told to retire unless he can make three people voluntarily jump off the Brooklyn bridge. The cop goes to the bridge, sees a French-looking guy, comes to him and says:
    - Are you French?
    - Oui.
    - Do you know that Mari sleeps with Jacques?
    - Oh, Mon Dieu! And the guy jumps off the bridge.
    The cop sees an American-looking older guy, comes up to him:
    - Are you American?
    - Yes!
    - Is your retirement fund invested in Microsoft?
    - Of course!
    - Did you hear that it just went bankrupt?
    - Oh, My God! And American jumps off the bridge.
    Then he sees a Russian-looking guy.
    - Are you Russian?
    - Yea.
    - Do you know that it’s strictly prohibited to jump off this bridge?
    - Who the f… cares! Says the Russian and jumps off the bridge.

    • Replies: @melanf
  80. melanf says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Someone who has nothing better to do can write a thick book about it (Chinese incompatiblenes with the Russian)

    Thick volume is absolutely not necessary. There is an example-185,000 Koreans live in Russia (their ancestors moved to Russia in tsarist times). They are perfectly integrated into society, and know Russian culture (on average) much better than Russian. Here, for example, winners of all-Russian school competitions on knowledge of Russian literature: If the Koreans are compatible with Russian, then why do you think that the Chinese are incompatible with the Russian? As far as I know, the Chinese are very well integrated in America. The difference between American and Chinese culture is probably even greater than the difference between Russian and Chinese culture

    PS anecdote I know, but I know a version where instead of the NY cop, Sherlock Holmes demonstrates to Watson the power of the deductive method

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Dmitry
  81. @melanf

    Yes, Asians integrate easily, but that takes a couple of generations. Sure, Russian Koreans are culturally Russian. Say singer Viktor Tsoy was as Russian as it gets (even linguistic mistakes in his songs are typical for undereducated Russians). Or take technically Kazakh writer Chingiz Aitmatov: his novels are an integral part of Russian literature (I know, there is no such thing as Kazakh literature, Soviet and Kazakh propaganda notwithstanding).

    I am talking about people growing up in Russia and in China. These grow up in cultures that are opposites in many ways. Of course, some Chinese are open-minded. I had two post-docs and a grad student from big China, ethnically pure Han (no sweat glands in armpits). All three were very open to other cultures, even liked good cheese (traditional Chinese do not make or eat cheese). All of them had about 10 times more education than a typical American, which likely helped. BTW, there are similarities: high regard for education is typical for both Russian and Chinese (as well as Korean and Japanese) culture. This is opposite of American culture, where half-literate baseball players or military criminals are considered heroes.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  82. melanf says:

    I am talking about people growing up in Russia and in China. These grow up in cultures that are opposites in many ways.

    Of course it is, but it is unlikely to be a major obstacle for economic, political, etc. cooperation. Other factors are important in such cooperation.

    high regard for education is typical for both Russian and Chinese (as well as Korean and Japanese) culture. This is opposite of American culture, where half-literate baseball players or military criminals are considered heroes.

    Based on the description that you made – Russian in this aspect an exact copy of the Americans. Of course in Russia appreciate education (who in the modern world does not appreciate education?), but famous athletes are listed incomparably higher than any scientists.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  83. @melanf

    Maybe because there are a lot more world-class athletes in Russia than world-class scientists? At least in my field there are very few.

  84. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    My experience from studying on international summer schools for English exams (the last I did, was all people aged over 21 years old), is Chinese a bit separated from everyone else. Whereas Japanese in the course, were always extremely friendly and integrated socially with other nationalities by comparison.

    Chinese are usually nice, but they did not seem as culturally fitting together everyone.

    This is probably, of course, reflecting that China was only economically developed very recently, so they didn’t develop yet the same social habits as in other nationalities in the courses.

    Situation is changing every year however, and younger and younger Chinese generations in the next years, will be more socially compatible with other nationalities, with each following year.

    People think like these things are very static, but they are changing fast.

  85. Dmitry says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Situation of social incompatibility of Chinese with other nationalities is changing though, and probably very rapidly.

    For a poor society, closed to other nationalities – it’s quite clear why Chinese did not develop the same ability for social compatibility with other nationalities for many years.

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