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Russia Says "No Russian." RT Head Margarita Simonyan Asks Why.

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In a recent, widely shared Facebook post, Margarita Simonyan, the ethnic Armenian chief editor of RT, has asked what exactly a Kyrgyz national of Uzbek ethnicity did to get Russian citizenship while ethnic Russians from the wartorn Donbass struggle to even get a residency permit:

The nurse of my children and her family, whom we evacuated from Donbass after having massed a vast thicket of queues, insults, delays, examinations, etc., can’t acquire a Russian residency permit after three years. This is despite my “administrative resource,” which, I freely admit, in this particular case I freely used. This family are simply Russian people with a Russian mentality, language, faith, biographies, and connection to the Motherland. Hard-working people who would be of GREAT USE to our country where, as is well known, there is a demographic crisis and a shortage of people. Fuck them, no residence permit! But here comes Akbarzhon Jalilov, who received Russian citizenship five years ago. CITIZENSHIP!

I have two questions in this regard:

1) Who, and under what circumstances, provided this citizenship. Perhaps at the time he was just a nice schoolboy, who had solid reasons for getting citizenship in my country. Or perhaps not, especially on account of consequent events. I don’t want to judge without first knowing all the details. But I do want an answer.

2) For how long will Russia continue to be embarassed to give citizenship to Russian people just on account of them being ethnic Russians. Like how it is done in “respectable” countries from Israel to Germany. I don’t understand.

This note of protest is especially striking in light of the fact that Margarita Simonyan is the quintessential Putinist Russian patriot, and as such, an object of loathing from the pro-Western liberal opposition, who simply hate Russia and Russians, to the more extreme Russian ethnonationalists, who hate her for her Armenian ancestry and for her status as a “stalwart of the regime.”

Putin once called Russians – specifically, ethnic Russians – the “biggest divided nation in the world.” But the time has come for back up his words with actions. He can now either take the side of the Russian people, or double down on the friendship of peoples project that will eventually lead to either Navalny or Greater Turkestan.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Immigration, Nationalism, Russia, Russophobes 
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  1. Russia operates a formal programme to resettle ethnic Russians and former Russian Federation/Soviet citizens. Most embassies have someone to enable the system.

    Her difficulties bringing the Donbass refugees into Russia should not have occurred. I have faced very slow residence permit procedures myself but in her case, I wouldn’t suspect someone angling for speed money.

    Anatoly, you presumably have your own experience of this. A blow by blow account might be illuminating (or are you still a citizen?).

    AK: I am a Russian citizen, always have been.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I have heard too many complaints about it to dismiss it as a one off.

    There are indeed many programs, but looking at the details, they all have rather narrow criteria that don't apply to many Russians abroad.

    For instance, here's a comprehensive (Russian language) article on that: https://sputnikipogrom.com/rights/33505/skotstvo-i-sovok/
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  2. @Philip Owen
    Russia operates a formal programme to resettle ethnic Russians and former Russian Federation/Soviet citizens. Most embassies have someone to enable the system.

    Her difficulties bringing the Donbass refugees into Russia should not have occurred. I have faced very slow residence permit procedures myself but in her case, I wouldn't suspect someone angling for speed money.

    Anatoly, you presumably have your own experience of this. A blow by blow account might be illuminating (or are you still a citizen?).

    AK: I am a Russian citizen, always have been.

    I have heard too many complaints about it to dismiss it as a one off.

    There are indeed many programs, but looking at the details, they all have rather narrow criteria that don’t apply to many Russians abroad.

    For instance, here’s a comprehensive (Russian language) article on that: https://sputnikipogrom.com/rights/33505/skotstvo-i-sovok/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Read it. With Google Translate, I read Russian but not that well. The translation was amazingly good. They write very correctly at SiP, as you might expect.

    That is the best summary of FMS procedures I have ever come across. As you say, so much for fast tracking ethnic Russians or let us say, former holders of Russian nationality during Soviet times. There are some other gateways. If you are prepared to settle one of the free farm plots in Siberia there is some easy path. I have no idea where to look though.

    The hand of Stalin still lies on the FMS.
  3. ‘ He can now either take the side of the Russian people, or double down on the friendship of peoples project that will eventually lead to either Navalny or Greater Turkestan.’

    With fewer Ukrainians interested in the ‘Russian project’, especially after the excesses of love shown by the ‘older brother’ towards the ‘younger brother’ in the Donbas, can you really fault Russia for feeling a need to replenish its populaton goals with Central Asians? Central Asians have continuously been assimilated into the Russian national mass for centuries, from the gentry and educated classes to the peasant and lower classes. There are many good historical reasons that have helped formulate the old aphorism:

    ‘Scratch a Russian and you’ll find a Tartar’

    Welcome to ‘Greater Turkistan’, Anatoly!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Russia conquered Central Asia in the mid-19th century, so actually, no.

    Volga Tatars are very much distinct from Central Asians.
    , @Glossy
    Central Asians have continuously been assimilated into the Russian national mass for centuries,

    Not according to geneticists. Actually, even Turks don't have much of a Central Asian component, despite their language and name. How come? Medieval armies were small.
    , @German_reader
    You're just trolling, and it's not even entertaining.
  4. @Mr. Hack

    ' He can now either take the side of the Russian people, or double down on the friendship of peoples project that will eventually lead to either Navalny or Greater Turkestan.'

     

    With fewer Ukrainians interested in the 'Russian project', especially after the excesses of love shown by the 'older brother' towards the 'younger brother' in the Donbas, can you really fault Russia for feeling a need to replenish its populaton goals with Central Asians? Central Asians have continuously been assimilated into the Russian national mass for centuries, from the gentry and educated classes to the peasant and lower classes. There are many good historical reasons that have helped formulate the old aphorism:

    'Scratch a Russian and you'll find a Tartar'
     
    Welcome to 'Greater Turkistan', Anatoly!

    Russia conquered Central Asia in the mid-19th century, so actually, no.

    Volga Tatars are very much distinct from Central Asians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    'Volga Tatars are very much distinct from Central Asians.'
     
    The ones (Volga Tatars) living in urban centers outside of Tatarstan are largely Russified, but the half million or so that still live in their ancestral lands still consider an older form of Turkic as their literary language. As you can see, the 'Tatar group' is quite large and encompasses large parts of Central Asia and can be found within Russia itself:

    'The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of peoples including existing societies such as Altai, Azerbaijanis, Balkars, Bashkirs, Chuvashes, Crimean Karaites, Gagauz, Karachays, Karakalpaks, Kazakhs, Khakas, Krymchaks, Kyrgyz people, Nogais, Qashqai, Tatars, Turkmens, Turkish people, Tuvans, Uyghurs, Uzbeks, and Yakuts
     
  5. @Mr. Hack

    ' He can now either take the side of the Russian people, or double down on the friendship of peoples project that will eventually lead to either Navalny or Greater Turkestan.'

     

    With fewer Ukrainians interested in the 'Russian project', especially after the excesses of love shown by the 'older brother' towards the 'younger brother' in the Donbas, can you really fault Russia for feeling a need to replenish its populaton goals with Central Asians? Central Asians have continuously been assimilated into the Russian national mass for centuries, from the gentry and educated classes to the peasant and lower classes. There are many good historical reasons that have helped formulate the old aphorism:

    'Scratch a Russian and you'll find a Tartar'
     
    Welcome to 'Greater Turkistan', Anatoly!

    Central Asians have continuously been assimilated into the Russian national mass for centuries,

    Not according to geneticists. Actually, even Turks don’t have much of a Central Asian component, despite their language and name. How come? Medieval armies were small.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yevardian
    I thought a bit about this myself a while back. The Magyars, South Slavs, Seljuk Turks and even the Anglo-Saxons were all probably numerically [i]tiny[/i] in comparison to their conquered populations, yet they all erased and replaced their culture, history and language completely.
    Turkey, Hungary and the UK are all genetically much closer to Greeks, Romanians and Irish than central asians, Finns or Germans. I'm not sure this will be the case with France in 100 years time.

    The population replacement within Western Civilisation may actually be unprecedented in it's genetic and long-term cultural effects since prehistoric times.

  6. With fewer Ukrainians interested in the ‘Russian project’, especially after the excesses of love shown by the ‘older brother’ towards the ‘younger brother’ in the Donbas, can you really fault Russia for feeling a need to replenish its populaton goals with Central Asians?

    There has been the highest increase in rate of Ukrainians moving into Russia after the coup that in any previous stage in Ukrainian history……you braindead cretin.
    Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian and receive considerable remittances from their family members working in Russia…..which was already in the millions before the Nazi coup.

    The “Ukrainian project” is dead because “Ukraine” is an artificial state
    The European Project for Ukrainian would probably need an asteroid striking and wiping out western and Northern Europe to have any chance of taking off
    That leaves only one viable alternative for Ukrainians….who remain obsessed with Russia

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Mr Hack is a troll. He is making outrageous comments to provoke a reaction - I'm surprised Karlin didn't ban him.
    , @Mr. Hack
    'Obsessed', unfortunately with killing Russians and their proxys in the Donbas.
    , @Mr. Hack

    'There has been the highest increase in rate of Ukrainians moving into Russia after the coup that in any previous stage in Ukrainian history…
     
    Looks like the only way to lure Ukrainians to immigrate to Russia in large numbers is by fomenting war there and destroying their homes. Quite an expensive and useless way to achieve immigration policies.

    '


    Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian
     
    I seriously doubt this. Especially after the Dark Lord's invasion of Ukraine. Can you substantiate this, or is it just another unsubstantiated sovok trope?

    'The “Ukrainian project” is dead because “Ukraine” is an artificial state'

    After three years of war with Russia, it's still going strong, actually stronger than ever as Putin's war has driven the Ukrainian people to coalesce into a more patriotic mass of citizens. He should have left Ukraine alone, and he'd have more Ukrainians today favorably disposed to Russia, but as it is.... (it was a stupid blunder that will negatively effect Ukrainian/Russian relations for many years to come).

    , @Philip Owen
    "Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian". Also the case for 2 million Welsh out of 3 million. Doesn't make them and I am one, English. I find Russian speaking Ukranians are much the same.

    350 thousand Ukrainians fled to Russia as refugees. Surveys suggest that they have settled better than the 1.5 million who fled to Ukraine as IDP's although neither group shows much inclination to return to the Donbass. The first surge to Russia was a million, mostly young men from the Donbass fleeing conscription into one army or another. That 650 thousand has gone back home. In Saratov, they were sent out into the villages to pick potatoes. They didn't like that.
  7. @Gerard2

    With fewer Ukrainians interested in the ‘Russian project’, especially after the excesses of love shown by the ‘older brother’ towards the ‘younger brother’ in the Donbas, can you really fault Russia for feeling a need to replenish its populaton goals with Central Asians?
     
    There has been the highest increase in rate of Ukrainians moving into Russia after the coup that in any previous stage in Ukrainian history......you braindead cretin.
    Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian and receive considerable remittances from their family members working in Russia.....which was already in the millions before the Nazi coup.

    The "Ukrainian project" is dead because "Ukraine" is an artificial state
    The European Project for Ukrainian would probably need an asteroid striking and wiping out western and Northern Europe to have any chance of taking off
    That leaves only one viable alternative for Ukrainians....who remain obsessed with Russia

    Mr Hack is a troll. He is making outrageous comments to provoke a reaction – I’m surprised Karlin didn’t ban him.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Relax Felix, Karlin spent a stint in California, and can be quoted as stating that he liked it and felt at home there. He's more at ease dealing with adverse opinions from his own, unlike you, who seems to exhibit extreme signs of being a constipated sovok.
  8. “He can now either take the side of the Russian people, or double down on the friendship of peoples project that will eventually lead to either Navalny or Greater Turkestan.”

    As for the former, I’m sure Navalny can use this but I don’t think it would make a big difference. He is too liberal for nationalists, too marred with nationalism for liberals, and for the loyalist mass he’s a mercenary of Washington. Even if he somehow managed to win over some people from all three groups by playing this incident especially well, I don’t believe it will be enough to make an appreciable difference come the elections (by which time, by the way, I suspect both this attack and the attacker will be forgotten by most). I do think Navalny can come to power in the next 20 years, but only if the powers that be decide he’d make a good populist figurehead anyway. And that implies a certain deficit of prospective populist figureheads.

    As for the latter, whatever happened to “no Eurabia”? Or is Russia this much more vulnerable to it than France?

    Read More
  9. @Mr. Hack

    ' He can now either take the side of the Russian people, or double down on the friendship of peoples project that will eventually lead to either Navalny or Greater Turkestan.'

     

    With fewer Ukrainians interested in the 'Russian project', especially after the excesses of love shown by the 'older brother' towards the 'younger brother' in the Donbas, can you really fault Russia for feeling a need to replenish its populaton goals with Central Asians? Central Asians have continuously been assimilated into the Russian national mass for centuries, from the gentry and educated classes to the peasant and lower classes. There are many good historical reasons that have helped formulate the old aphorism:

    'Scratch a Russian and you'll find a Tartar'
     
    Welcome to 'Greater Turkistan', Anatoly!

    You’re just trolling, and it’s not even entertaining.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    And what you write is supposed to be 'entertaining'? Give me a break!
  10. So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don’t really understand what’s going on there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I don't understand it either. This could just be my ignorance and an absence of ethnic confusion in the US for a frame of reference.

    Do most Ukrainians consider themselves as different and separate from Russians?

    If they are Ukrainian and want to be separate, is it because the "real" Russians won't accept them as Russian?

    Do Russians not want Ukrainians to be Russians? Do they want them to be 2nd class Russians?

    Can anyone trace this back to different Slavic tribes?

    , @Cagey Beast
    The Russians of the Russian Federation ended up entangled in the fate of those regions in the east of Ukraine with a large ethnic Russian minority. Those regions voted overwhelmingly for the president forced out of office by Euromaidan and the brand new regime came down on them very fast and hard.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7OrXHEpSO0
    , @karl1haushofer
    "So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don’t really understand what’s going on there."

    There is a cunning plan hidden in somewhere.
    , @Philip Owen
    There were no rebels of consequence. The whole thing is a failed plot by Russian based nationalist groups, mostly Whites. To be fair, the rump they still occupy was not even claimed by Ukraine in 1917-1921. The border ran through Yusovka. However, their early stand in Slavyansk was well inside traditional Ukraine territory.
  11. @jtgw
    So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don't really understand what's going on there.

    I don’t understand it either. This could just be my ignorance and an absence of ethnic confusion in the US for a frame of reference.

    Do most Ukrainians consider themselves as different and separate from Russians?

    If they are Ukrainian and want to be separate, is it because the “real” Russians won’t accept them as Russian?

    Do Russians not want Ukrainians to be Russians? Do they want them to be 2nd class Russians?

    Can anyone trace this back to different Slavic tribes?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    Well I understand the issue as far as this: these eastern regions of Ukraine are populated mainly by Russian speakers who don't feel much loyalty to independent Ukraine and would rather be part of Russia. They supported Yanukovich who was trying to keep the balance between Ukrainian and Russian nationalists, but when he was ousted and replaced by a Ukrainian nationalist, the ethnic Russians rebelled. I can certainly understand why Russia would take the side of its co-ethnics in eastern Ukraine, but then it's strange that it would be reluctant to let those same co-ethnics actually move to Russia.

    I suppose my theory is that, while Russia is willing to a point to intervene outside its borders on behalf of fellow Russians, it doesn't want to encourage mass immigration of ethnic Russians from abroad. AP provided some plausible explanations for this behavior.
  12. Putin once called Russians – specifically, ethnic Russians – the “biggest divided nation in the world.” But the time has come for back up his words with actions.

    It should be pretty obvious that the people who run the Kremlin are not ethnic nationalists. They think primarily in terms of consolidating and expanding the power of the Russian state. I hate to say it, but the idea of “protecting compatriots abroad” is mostly used to justify interventions in the former Soviet space. From this perspective, the Kremlin is not particularly interested in letting these communities of Russians disappear through repatriation.

    And personally, I’m not convinced that encouraging ethnic Russians to flee Ukraine is the right thing to do.

    PS: I absolutely agree that Russia’s immigration policy is stupid, and the country simply doesn’t need Asians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    And personally, I’m not convinced that encouraging ethnic Russians to flee Ukraine is the right thing to do.
     
    Russia needs more Russians in Russia, not in the Ukraine where they end up supporting an anti-Russian state.
  13. @Glossy
    Central Asians have continuously been assimilated into the Russian national mass for centuries,

    Not according to geneticists. Actually, even Turks don't have much of a Central Asian component, despite their language and name. How come? Medieval armies were small.

    I thought a bit about this myself a while back. The Magyars, South Slavs, Seljuk Turks and even the Anglo-Saxons were all probably numerically [i]tiny[/i] in comparison to their conquered populations, yet they all erased and replaced their culture, history and language completely.
    Turkey, Hungary and the UK are all genetically much closer to Greeks, Romanians and Irish than central asians, Finns or Germans. I’m not sure this will be the case with France in 100 years time.

    The population replacement within Western Civilisation may actually be unprecedented in it’s genetic and long-term cultural effects since prehistoric times.

    Read More
  14. @jtgw
    So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don't really understand what's going on there.

    The Russians of the Russian Federation ended up entangled in the fate of those regions in the east of Ukraine with a large ethnic Russian minority. Those regions voted overwhelmingly for the president forced out of office by Euromaidan and the brand new regime came down on them very fast and hard.

    Read More
  15. A nationalist turn is exactly what the US State Department would love for Putin to attempt. Russia is an empire, and one vital for Europe’s continued existence as a buffer with Asia.

    Turning into an ethno-state would simply open up a can of worms with the eventual result being a truncated Russia as ethnic groups would jump on the ethno-state train with full funding from the West.

    Russia’s open approach with Central Asia keeps it in the game there aka “The Great Game”. By withdrawing from this region in the manner of building a wall as you suggested in a previous enry you’d only be creating a vacuum for the Chinese or for American proxies to set up shop.

    The Russians under Putin have done an amazing job in pushing US power out of Central Asia. A Russian ethno-state would only see the IMU/Hizb-u-Tahrir/assorted Western proxies help strangle Russia as per US global hegemonic ambitions.

    Read More
  16. @Anatoly Karlin
    Russia conquered Central Asia in the mid-19th century, so actually, no.

    Volga Tatars are very much distinct from Central Asians.

    ‘Volga Tatars are very much distinct from Central Asians.’

    The ones (Volga Tatars) living in urban centers outside of Tatarstan are largely Russified, but the half million or so that still live in their ancestral lands still consider an older form of Turkic as their literary language. As you can see, the ‘Tatar group’ is quite large and encompasses large parts of Central Asia and can be found within Russia itself:

    ‘The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of peoples including existing societies such as Altai, Azerbaijanis, Balkars, Bashkirs, Chuvashes, Crimean Karaites, Gagauz, Karachays, Karakalpaks, Kazakhs, Khakas, Krymchaks, Kyrgyz people, Nogais, Qashqai, Tatars, Turkmens, Turkish people, Tuvans, Uyghurs, Uzbeks, and Yakuts

    Read More
  17. @Felix Keverich
    Mr Hack is a troll. He is making outrageous comments to provoke a reaction - I'm surprised Karlin didn't ban him.

    Relax Felix, Karlin spent a stint in California, and can be quoted as stating that he liked it and felt at home there. He’s more at ease dealing with adverse opinions from his own, unlike you, who seems to exhibit extreme signs of being a constipated sovok.

    Read More
  18. @Gerard2

    With fewer Ukrainians interested in the ‘Russian project’, especially after the excesses of love shown by the ‘older brother’ towards the ‘younger brother’ in the Donbas, can you really fault Russia for feeling a need to replenish its populaton goals with Central Asians?
     
    There has been the highest increase in rate of Ukrainians moving into Russia after the coup that in any previous stage in Ukrainian history......you braindead cretin.
    Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian and receive considerable remittances from their family members working in Russia.....which was already in the millions before the Nazi coup.

    The "Ukrainian project" is dead because "Ukraine" is an artificial state
    The European Project for Ukrainian would probably need an asteroid striking and wiping out western and Northern Europe to have any chance of taking off
    That leaves only one viable alternative for Ukrainians....who remain obsessed with Russia

    ‘Obsessed’, unfortunately with killing Russians and their proxys in the Donbas.

    Read More
  19. @German_reader
    You're just trolling, and it's not even entertaining.

    And what you write is supposed to be ‘entertaining’? Give me a break!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Glossy
    I see that they don't make you like they used to at the troll factory. The standards have slipped. I hope it's outsourcing.
  20. I know this case is only anecdotal, but it would appear Russia is like America in that it’s easier to obtain citizenship if you are racially and culturally unlike the ethnic Russian or white European majorities in each respective nation.

    If this is a trend then I would need to rethink my belief that Putin is a champion of his ethnic Russian kin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Niccolo Salo
    @KenH

    Putin is a Gaullist/Etatiste, not an ethnic nationalist. Ethnic Nationalism in Russia would be an absolute disaster since it is not an ethno-state but an empire that takes the form of a federation.
  21. @KenH
    I know this case is only anecdotal, but it would appear Russia is like America in that it's easier to obtain citizenship if you are racially and culturally unlike the ethnic Russian or white European majorities in each respective nation.

    If this is a trend then I would need to rethink my belief that Putin is a champion of his ethnic Russian kin.

    Putin is a Gaullist/Etatiste, not an ethnic nationalist. Ethnic Nationalism in Russia would be an absolute disaster since it is not an ethno-state but an empire that takes the form of a federation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    And who wouldn't want to follow the French example? After all, merging with North Africa gave France a crucial power base in its rivalries and allowed it to dominate Europe. Sure, there are the terrorist bombings, crime ridden streets and demographic dispossession, but we can look at how France has maintained its position in the Great Game and conclude that it was well worth it.

    The idea that ethnic conscious politics would be some automatic disaster in Russia because it has so many minorities is really ridiculous in this case. How would they react to ethnic conscious repatriation of Russians in Yakutia, Udmurtia or Chuvashia? They would shrug. The vast majority of minorities in Russia have no diaspora and the issue is irrelevant to them.

    This is another thing where Russia is similar to the West in a bad way, the majority ethnic group can be held hostage to concerns of minorities when the minorities themselves don't even actually have concerns...

  22. @Mr. Hack
    And what you write is supposed to be 'entertaining'? Give me a break!

    I see that they don’t make you like they used to at the troll factory. The standards have slipped. I hope it’s outsourcing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Looks like I've somehow managed to infuriate a lot of the Kremlin Stooges here (a mediocre crowd of dimwits at best, hence the sobriquet 'Kremlin Stooges'. :-)
  23. @Gerard2

    With fewer Ukrainians interested in the ‘Russian project’, especially after the excesses of love shown by the ‘older brother’ towards the ‘younger brother’ in the Donbas, can you really fault Russia for feeling a need to replenish its populaton goals with Central Asians?
     
    There has been the highest increase in rate of Ukrainians moving into Russia after the coup that in any previous stage in Ukrainian history......you braindead cretin.
    Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian and receive considerable remittances from their family members working in Russia.....which was already in the millions before the Nazi coup.

    The "Ukrainian project" is dead because "Ukraine" is an artificial state
    The European Project for Ukrainian would probably need an asteroid striking and wiping out western and Northern Europe to have any chance of taking off
    That leaves only one viable alternative for Ukrainians....who remain obsessed with Russia

    ‘There has been the highest increase in rate of Ukrainians moving into Russia after the coup that in any previous stage in Ukrainian history…

    Looks like the only way to lure Ukrainians to immigrate to Russia in large numbers is by fomenting war there and destroying their homes. Quite an expensive and useless way to achieve immigration policies.

    Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian

    I seriously doubt this. Especially after the Dark Lord’s invasion of Ukraine. Can you substantiate this, or is it just another unsubstantiated sovok trope?

    ‘The “Ukrainian project” is dead because “Ukraine” is an artificial state’

    After three years of war with Russia, it’s still going strong, actually stronger than ever as Putin’s war has driven the Ukrainian people to coalesce into a more patriotic mass of citizens. He should have left Ukraine alone, and he’d have more Ukrainians today favorably disposed to Russia, but as it is…. (it was a stupid blunder that will negatively effect Ukrainian/Russian relations for many years to come).

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous


    After three years of war with Russia, it’s still going strong, actually stronger than ever as Putin’s war has driven the Ukrainian people to coalesce into a more patriotic mass of citizens.

     

    Thank the Dark Lord for it!


    He should have left Ukraine alone, and he’d have more Ukrainians today favorably disposed to Russia, but as it is….

     

    Nobody cares how Ukrainians are disposed towards Russia.


    (it was a stupid blunder that will negatively effect Ukrainian/Russian relations for many years to come).

     

    It’s a far-seeing plan, not a blunder.
    , @AP

    After three years of war with Russia, it’s still going strong, actually stronger than ever as Putin’s war has driven the Ukrainian people to coalesce into a more patriotic mass of citizens. He should have left Ukraine alone, and he’d have more Ukrainians today favorably disposed to Russia, but as it is…. (it was a stupid blunder that will negatively effect Ukrainian/Russian relations for many years to come).
     
    Welcome here.

    I'm not so sure that, from a Russian Statist perspective, the actions of Donbas have been a stupid blunder. The minuses that you accurately describe are offset by pluses, that I discussed in my other response here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-says-no-russian/#comment-1824693

    The millions of Russians in Donbas are forced to suffer but on balance this may be worth it for the Russian State.
  24. @Glossy
    I see that they don't make you like they used to at the troll factory. The standards have slipped. I hope it's outsourcing.

    Looks like I’ve somehow managed to infuriate a lot of the Kremlin Stooges here (a mediocre crowd of dimwits at best, hence the sobriquet ‘Kremlin Stooges’. :-)

    Read More
  25. The complicating factor for any potential decision to cut Central Asia loose would be Kazakhstan, which has too much territory, too many resources, and still too many Russians to treat it the same as the other countries.

    Read More
    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Not to mention that the RF is rather committed to greater integration with CA through the EurAsEC.
  26. @Niccolo Salo
    A nationalist turn is exactly what the US State Department would love for Putin to attempt. Russia is an empire, and one vital for Europe's continued existence as a buffer with Asia.

    Turning into an ethno-state would simply open up a can of worms with the eventual result being a truncated Russia as ethnic groups would jump on the ethno-state train with full funding from the West.

    Russia's open approach with Central Asia keeps it in the game there aka "The Great Game". By withdrawing from this region in the manner of building a wall as you suggested in a previous enry you'd only be creating a vacuum for the Chinese or for American proxies to set up shop.

    The Russians under Putin have done an amazing job in pushing US power out of Central Asia. A Russian ethno-state would only see the IMU/Hizb-u-Tahrir/assorted Western proxies help strangle Russia as per US global hegemonic ambitions.

    Exactly. Well said!

    Read More
  27. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Felix Keverich

    Putin once called Russians – specifically, ethnic Russians – the “biggest divided nation in the world.” But the time has come for back up his words with actions.
     
    It should be pretty obvious that the people who run the Kremlin are not ethnic nationalists. They think primarily in terms of consolidating and expanding the power of the Russian state. I hate to say it, but the idea of "protecting compatriots abroad" is mostly used to justify interventions in the former Soviet space. From this perspective, the Kremlin is not particularly interested in letting these communities of Russians disappear through repatriation.

    And personally, I'm not convinced that encouraging ethnic Russians to flee Ukraine is the right thing to do.

    PS: I absolutely agree that Russia's immigration policy is stupid, and the country simply doesn't need Asians.

    And personally, I’m not convinced that encouraging ethnic Russians to flee Ukraine is the right thing to do.

    Russia needs more Russians in Russia, not in the Ukraine where they end up supporting an anti-Russian state.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    If the Ukraine is going to continue being anti-Russian, it is going to shrink dramatically.
  28. @Anon

    And personally, I’m not convinced that encouraging ethnic Russians to flee Ukraine is the right thing to do.
     
    Russia needs more Russians in Russia, not in the Ukraine where they end up supporting an anti-Russian state.

    If the Ukraine is going to continue being anti-Russian, it is going to shrink dramatically.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    I would not count on it.
    Ukrainian nationalism is very influential within the Ukraine and the neighboring states do not seem to want more decaying and impoverished land.
  29. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mr. Hack

    'There has been the highest increase in rate of Ukrainians moving into Russia after the coup that in any previous stage in Ukrainian history…
     
    Looks like the only way to lure Ukrainians to immigrate to Russia in large numbers is by fomenting war there and destroying their homes. Quite an expensive and useless way to achieve immigration policies.

    '


    Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian
     
    I seriously doubt this. Especially after the Dark Lord's invasion of Ukraine. Can you substantiate this, or is it just another unsubstantiated sovok trope?

    'The “Ukrainian project” is dead because “Ukraine” is an artificial state'

    After three years of war with Russia, it's still going strong, actually stronger than ever as Putin's war has driven the Ukrainian people to coalesce into a more patriotic mass of citizens. He should have left Ukraine alone, and he'd have more Ukrainians today favorably disposed to Russia, but as it is.... (it was a stupid blunder that will negatively effect Ukrainian/Russian relations for many years to come).

    After three years of war with Russia, it’s still going strong, actually stronger than ever as Putin’s war has driven the Ukrainian people to coalesce into a more patriotic mass of citizens.

    Thank the Dark Lord for it!

    He should have left Ukraine alone, and he’d have more Ukrainians today favorably disposed to Russia, but as it is….

    Nobody cares how Ukrainians are disposed towards Russia.

    (it was a stupid blunder that will negatively effect Ukrainian/Russian relations for many years to come).

    It’s a far-seeing plan, not a blunder.

    Read More
  30. @Niccolo Salo
    @KenH

    Putin is a Gaullist/Etatiste, not an ethnic nationalist. Ethnic Nationalism in Russia would be an absolute disaster since it is not an ethno-state but an empire that takes the form of a federation.

    And who wouldn’t want to follow the French example? After all, merging with North Africa gave France a crucial power base in its rivalries and allowed it to dominate Europe. Sure, there are the terrorist bombings, crime ridden streets and demographic dispossession, but we can look at how France has maintained its position in the Great Game and conclude that it was well worth it.

    The idea that ethnic conscious politics would be some automatic disaster in Russia because it has so many minorities is really ridiculous in this case. How would they react to ethnic conscious repatriation of Russians in Yakutia, Udmurtia or Chuvashia? They would shrug. The vast majority of minorities in Russia have no diaspora and the issue is irrelevant to them.

    This is another thing where Russia is similar to the West in a bad way, the majority ethnic group can be held hostage to concerns of minorities when the minorities themselves don’t even actually have concerns…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    France is a declining power, unable to dominate Europe even after winning the previous wars.
  31. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @5371
    If the Ukraine is going to continue being anti-Russian, it is going to shrink dramatically.

    I would not count on it.
    Ukrainian nationalism is very influential within the Ukraine and the neighboring states do not seem to want more decaying and impoverished land.

    Read More
  32. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Jaakko Raipala
    And who wouldn't want to follow the French example? After all, merging with North Africa gave France a crucial power base in its rivalries and allowed it to dominate Europe. Sure, there are the terrorist bombings, crime ridden streets and demographic dispossession, but we can look at how France has maintained its position in the Great Game and conclude that it was well worth it.

    The idea that ethnic conscious politics would be some automatic disaster in Russia because it has so many minorities is really ridiculous in this case. How would they react to ethnic conscious repatriation of Russians in Yakutia, Udmurtia or Chuvashia? They would shrug. The vast majority of minorities in Russia have no diaspora and the issue is irrelevant to them.

    This is another thing where Russia is similar to the West in a bad way, the majority ethnic group can be held hostage to concerns of minorities when the minorities themselves don't even actually have concerns...

    France is a declining power, unable to dominate Europe even after winning the previous wars.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    France hasn't won anything since 1918, and even back then it was saved by the British and the Americans.
  33. @jtgw
    So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don't really understand what's going on there.

    “So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don’t really understand what’s going on there.”

    There is a cunning plan hidden in somewhere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    “So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don’t really understand what’s going on there.”
     
    Its policy is bad from a Russian ethnic nationalist perspective but makes some sense from a Russian civic (state-based) nationalist perspective. Generally:

    1. Makes the Ukrainian state poorer and weaker than it would be otherwise. Since Ukraine chose the West over Russia, this is its punishment. An a poor weakened rival is better than a strong prosperous one (this is why Israel benefits form a divided war-torn Syria or Iraq vs. those states being strong rivals).

    2. Prevents full integration with western structures (NATO won't take a country with a civil war; EU won't take a country that is that poor).

    3. Serves as a warning to other states with Russian minorities contemplating turning away from Russia.

    4. A pro-Western Ukraine that is poor and weak serves as a negative example to Russians who might contemplate a Western rather than Putinist Russia.

    5. Donbas serves as an outlet for disruptive Russian nationalists that otherwise might cause trouble in Russia itself. Let them cause trouble in Ukraine, and if they get killed there, so much the better for the Russian state (this is analogous to Saudi Arabia sending its troublemakers to places like Syria).

    One consequence of this policy is that Ukraine, which had been ambivalent about Russia, has become definitely anti-Russian. It could have been, like Hungary, a Russia-friendly force within the EU structure but is now another Poland. Russia's leaders have decided that the price is worth it.

    Another consequence is that the Russian people of Donbas are screwed. They are impoverished and subjected to occasional bombings, a couple thousand have been killed (Russians who complain about Kiev for these deaths while not complaining about Assad whose war has killed ten times more civilians are of course hypocrites). Russian state policy has been the worst possible policy for Donbas' Russians: had Russia left Donbas alone Kiev would have taken control and the place would be peaceful as in Kharkiv (probably a few hundred arrests, a few hundred more Russian nationalist activists would have fled, but it wouldn't have been destroyed and there wouldn't have been thousands of dead). Had Russia annexed the place in 2014 it would have peaceful as in Crimea: a few hundred or thousand Ukrainian activists would have fled, but no thousands dead and no mass destruction. But the Russian State chose the policy that was arguably best for the Russian state - who cares about the millions of Russian people living there. Russian State doesn't.
  34. @karl1haushofer
    "So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don’t really understand what’s going on there."

    There is a cunning plan hidden in somewhere.

    “So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don’t really understand what’s going on there.”

    Its policy is bad from a Russian ethnic nationalist perspective but makes some sense from a Russian civic (state-based) nationalist perspective. Generally:

    1. Makes the Ukrainian state poorer and weaker than it would be otherwise. Since Ukraine chose the West over Russia, this is its punishment. An a poor weakened rival is better than a strong prosperous one (this is why Israel benefits form a divided war-torn Syria or Iraq vs. those states being strong rivals).

    2. Prevents full integration with western structures (NATO won’t take a country with a civil war; EU won’t take a country that is that poor).

    3. Serves as a warning to other states with Russian minorities contemplating turning away from Russia.

    4. A pro-Western Ukraine that is poor and weak serves as a negative example to Russians who might contemplate a Western rather than Putinist Russia.

    5. Donbas serves as an outlet for disruptive Russian nationalists that otherwise might cause trouble in Russia itself. Let them cause trouble in Ukraine, and if they get killed there, so much the better for the Russian state (this is analogous to Saudi Arabia sending its troublemakers to places like Syria).

    One consequence of this policy is that Ukraine, which had been ambivalent about Russia, has become definitely anti-Russian. It could have been, like Hungary, a Russia-friendly force within the EU structure but is now another Poland. Russia’s leaders have decided that the price is worth it.

    Another consequence is that the Russian people of Donbas are screwed. They are impoverished and subjected to occasional bombings, a couple thousand have been killed (Russians who complain about Kiev for these deaths while not complaining about Assad whose war has killed ten times more civilians are of course hypocrites). Russian state policy has been the worst possible policy for Donbas’ Russians: had Russia left Donbas alone Kiev would have taken control and the place would be peaceful as in Kharkiv (probably a few hundred arrests, a few hundred more Russian nationalist activists would have fled, but it wouldn’t have been destroyed and there wouldn’t have been thousands of dead). Had Russia annexed the place in 2014 it would have peaceful as in Crimea: a few hundred or thousand Ukrainian activists would have fled, but no thousands dead and no mass destruction. But the Russian State chose the policy that was arguably best for the Russian state – who cares about the millions of Russian people living there. Russian State doesn’t.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Glossy
    The Ukraine is poor because it's ruled by oligarchic thieves more than because of the war. Its government was more thievish than Russia's before the coup and it became even more thievish than that after the coup.

    If the "European choice" slogan was anything more than cynical BS, the Ukraine would have dealt with separatist feelings the way that the UK, Canada and Czechoslovakia dealt with them. Then there would have been no war.

    One consequence of this policy is that Ukraine, which had been ambivalent about Russia, has become definitely anti-Russian.

    Wishful thinking on your part. Public opinion in the Ukraine is divided along old geographic lines, hence the repression by the junta in the southeast.
  35. @Mr. Hack

    'There has been the highest increase in rate of Ukrainians moving into Russia after the coup that in any previous stage in Ukrainian history…
     
    Looks like the only way to lure Ukrainians to immigrate to Russia in large numbers is by fomenting war there and destroying their homes. Quite an expensive and useless way to achieve immigration policies.

    '


    Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian
     
    I seriously doubt this. Especially after the Dark Lord's invasion of Ukraine. Can you substantiate this, or is it just another unsubstantiated sovok trope?

    'The “Ukrainian project” is dead because “Ukraine” is an artificial state'

    After three years of war with Russia, it's still going strong, actually stronger than ever as Putin's war has driven the Ukrainian people to coalesce into a more patriotic mass of citizens. He should have left Ukraine alone, and he'd have more Ukrainians today favorably disposed to Russia, but as it is.... (it was a stupid blunder that will negatively effect Ukrainian/Russian relations for many years to come).

    After three years of war with Russia, it’s still going strong, actually stronger than ever as Putin’s war has driven the Ukrainian people to coalesce into a more patriotic mass of citizens. He should have left Ukraine alone, and he’d have more Ukrainians today favorably disposed to Russia, but as it is…. (it was a stupid blunder that will negatively effect Ukrainian/Russian relations for many years to come).

    Welcome here.

    I’m not so sure that, from a Russian Statist perspective, the actions of Donbas have been a stupid blunder. The minuses that you accurately describe are offset by pluses, that I discussed in my other response here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-says-no-russian/#comment-1824693

    The millions of Russians in Donbas are forced to suffer but on balance this may be worth it for the Russian State.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Yes, but the 'Hungarian' scenario that you allude to makes so much more sense in my way of thinking. I still have an optimistic streak buried deep inside myself, that probably is influenced by my Christian beliefs...A strong Ukraine could have meant a strong Russia too, I don't see any reason to believe that a poor, war-torn Ukraine will in the long term help Russia prosper the way it could if both countries cooperated, instead of being involved in a needless war. Good strong men that are needed by both countries to prosper are being wasted for the aggrandizement of the Russian mafia's pocket (and you know who the Russian godfather is). :-(
  36. @AP

    “So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don’t really understand what’s going on there.”
     
    Its policy is bad from a Russian ethnic nationalist perspective but makes some sense from a Russian civic (state-based) nationalist perspective. Generally:

    1. Makes the Ukrainian state poorer and weaker than it would be otherwise. Since Ukraine chose the West over Russia, this is its punishment. An a poor weakened rival is better than a strong prosperous one (this is why Israel benefits form a divided war-torn Syria or Iraq vs. those states being strong rivals).

    2. Prevents full integration with western structures (NATO won't take a country with a civil war; EU won't take a country that is that poor).

    3. Serves as a warning to other states with Russian minorities contemplating turning away from Russia.

    4. A pro-Western Ukraine that is poor and weak serves as a negative example to Russians who might contemplate a Western rather than Putinist Russia.

    5. Donbas serves as an outlet for disruptive Russian nationalists that otherwise might cause trouble in Russia itself. Let them cause trouble in Ukraine, and if they get killed there, so much the better for the Russian state (this is analogous to Saudi Arabia sending its troublemakers to places like Syria).

    One consequence of this policy is that Ukraine, which had been ambivalent about Russia, has become definitely anti-Russian. It could have been, like Hungary, a Russia-friendly force within the EU structure but is now another Poland. Russia's leaders have decided that the price is worth it.

    Another consequence is that the Russian people of Donbas are screwed. They are impoverished and subjected to occasional bombings, a couple thousand have been killed (Russians who complain about Kiev for these deaths while not complaining about Assad whose war has killed ten times more civilians are of course hypocrites). Russian state policy has been the worst possible policy for Donbas' Russians: had Russia left Donbas alone Kiev would have taken control and the place would be peaceful as in Kharkiv (probably a few hundred arrests, a few hundred more Russian nationalist activists would have fled, but it wouldn't have been destroyed and there wouldn't have been thousands of dead). Had Russia annexed the place in 2014 it would have peaceful as in Crimea: a few hundred or thousand Ukrainian activists would have fled, but no thousands dead and no mass destruction. But the Russian State chose the policy that was arguably best for the Russian state - who cares about the millions of Russian people living there. Russian State doesn't.

    The Ukraine is poor because it’s ruled by oligarchic thieves more than because of the war. Its government was more thievish than Russia’s before the coup and it became even more thievish than that after the coup.

    If the “European choice” slogan was anything more than cynical BS, the Ukraine would have dealt with separatist feelings the way that the UK, Canada and Czechoslovakia dealt with them. Then there would have been no war.

    One consequence of this policy is that Ukraine, which had been ambivalent about Russia, has become definitely anti-Russian.

    Wishful thinking on your part. Public opinion in the Ukraine is divided along old geographic lines, hence the repression by the junta in the southeast.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    The Ukraine is poor because it’s ruled by oligarchic thieves more than because of the war.
     
    The billions in damage caused by the war and the drop in GDP has had far more of a negative effect than does oligarchic thievery.

    If the “European choice” slogan was anything more than cynical BS, the Ukraine would have dealt with separatist feelings the way that the UK, Canada and Czechoslovakia dealt with them.
     
    I didn't realize Canada had armed non-elected activists and armed foreign adventurers taking over buildings and killing people.

    "One consequence of this policy is that Ukraine, which had been ambivalent about Russia, has become definitely anti-Russian."

    Wishful thinking on your part. Public opinion in the Ukraine is divided along old geographic lines,
     
    Ironically, wishful thinking on your part. The most hardcore pro-Russian areas are no longer in Ukraine. Central Ukraine has become about as anti-Russian as Galicia had once been (in essence, Galicia has gone from having 4 million people to having 20 million people) and places like Dnipropetrovsk have become much more anti-Russian than they had been. As a result, Ukraine is no longer evenly divided between pro-Western and pro-Russian but is comfortably pro-Western. Yes, there are pockets of pro-Russian support, as in Kharkiv and to a lesser extent in Odessa, but these are now too small to influence national politics.
  37. @AP

    After three years of war with Russia, it’s still going strong, actually stronger than ever as Putin’s war has driven the Ukrainian people to coalesce into a more patriotic mass of citizens. He should have left Ukraine alone, and he’d have more Ukrainians today favorably disposed to Russia, but as it is…. (it was a stupid blunder that will negatively effect Ukrainian/Russian relations for many years to come).
     
    Welcome here.

    I'm not so sure that, from a Russian Statist perspective, the actions of Donbas have been a stupid blunder. The minuses that you accurately describe are offset by pluses, that I discussed in my other response here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-says-no-russian/#comment-1824693

    The millions of Russians in Donbas are forced to suffer but on balance this may be worth it for the Russian State.

    Yes, but the ‘Hungarian’ scenario that you allude to makes so much more sense in my way of thinking. I still have an optimistic streak buried deep inside myself, that probably is influenced by my Christian beliefs…A strong Ukraine could have meant a strong Russia too, I don’t see any reason to believe that a poor, war-torn Ukraine will in the long term help Russia prosper the way it could if both countries cooperated, instead of being involved in a needless war. Good strong men that are needed by both countries to prosper are being wasted for the aggrandizement of the Russian mafia’s pocket (and you know who the Russian godfather is). :-(

    Read More
    • Replies: @Glossy
    The Ukraine was already poor before the war. And the reason for that poverty (oligarchy, lawlessness) was exacerbated by the coup. The new gang always looked like they were going to be worse than the old one, with or without war.

    Putin already showed how to decrease the role of oligarchy in a post-Soviet economy and Lukashenko showed how to avoid that problem completely.

    Any Ukrainian government that wishes its peopke well would follow those examples. Further, it would be condemned by the kind of people who condemn Putin, Lukashenko and Orban.

    The endorsement of the Western media means that the government in question is corrupt. This is one of many indicators showing that the junta was always going to be more corrupt than its predecessors, that the Ukraine was going to become poorer under the junta even without the war.

    And of course, the junta chose to have the war. If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war.
    , @AP

    Yes, but the ‘Hungarian’ scenario that you allude to makes so much more sense in my way of thinking.
     
    Allowing a Russia-friendly Ukraine to drift into the EU would probably be the more humane approach. Not sure if it would be better for the Russian State. It might give ideas to other countries who might follow out of Russia's orbit. It might give ideas to Russians seeking another type of government, which would lead to instability.
  38. @Mr. Hack
    Yes, but the 'Hungarian' scenario that you allude to makes so much more sense in my way of thinking. I still have an optimistic streak buried deep inside myself, that probably is influenced by my Christian beliefs...A strong Ukraine could have meant a strong Russia too, I don't see any reason to believe that a poor, war-torn Ukraine will in the long term help Russia prosper the way it could if both countries cooperated, instead of being involved in a needless war. Good strong men that are needed by both countries to prosper are being wasted for the aggrandizement of the Russian mafia's pocket (and you know who the Russian godfather is). :-(

    The Ukraine was already poor before the war. And the reason for that poverty (oligarchy, lawlessness) was exacerbated by the coup. The new gang always looked like they were going to be worse than the old one, with or without war.

    Putin already showed how to decrease the role of oligarchy in a post-Soviet economy and Lukashenko showed how to avoid that problem completely.

    Any Ukrainian government that wishes its peopke well would follow those examples. Further, it would be condemned by the kind of people who condemn Putin, Lukashenko and Orban.

    The endorsement of the Western media means that the government in question is corrupt. This is one of many indicators showing that the junta was always going to be more corrupt than its predecessors, that the Ukraine was going to become poorer under the junta even without the war.

    And of course, the junta chose to have the war. If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    '

    And of course, the junta chose to have the war. If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war.'
     
    Well, at least you have the smarts not to include Russia and the way that it 'organized' its referendum in Crimea - a laughing stock seen throughout the civilized world resulting in the placing of sanctions on Russia by some 40 highly industrialized countries from around the world, that are still in place to this day.
    , @AP

    Putin already showed how to decrease the role of oligarchy in a post-Soviet economy and Lukashenko showed how to avoid that problem completely.

    Any Ukrainian government that wishes its peopke well would follow those examples.

     

    In that case, do you support Poroshenko consolidated all power in Ukraine in his hands? Do you hope he finishes off the leftovers of the old regime (Akhmetov) as well as Kolomoisky? Or - would you prefer if a SBU general came to power. Be aware that there was a large influx of pseudo-Banderists into the KGB in the 50s and 60s and the SBU reflects this.

    I suspect you would support "Putinization" in Ukraine if a more Russia-friendly boss such as Yanukovich was engaging in it.

    This is one of many indicators showing that the junta was always going to be more corrupt than its predecessors,
     
    CPI shows very modest decrease in corruption. However there has been slight increase in reported bribery in specific areas. There is no evidence that corrupti0n has significantly increased overall, only that it is about as bad. While that is certainly a failure, your statement is false.
    , @Philip Owen
    "If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war."

    Not true. Almost the first thing Borodai did was lock up Nelly Shepter, the chief campaigner for the referendum and kill her #2. That was well before Girkin got the military confrontation seriously under way. The OCA wanted to provoke conflict.
  39. @Glossy
    The Ukraine was already poor before the war. And the reason for that poverty (oligarchy, lawlessness) was exacerbated by the coup. The new gang always looked like they were going to be worse than the old one, with or without war.

    Putin already showed how to decrease the role of oligarchy in a post-Soviet economy and Lukashenko showed how to avoid that problem completely.

    Any Ukrainian government that wishes its peopke well would follow those examples. Further, it would be condemned by the kind of people who condemn Putin, Lukashenko and Orban.

    The endorsement of the Western media means that the government in question is corrupt. This is one of many indicators showing that the junta was always going to be more corrupt than its predecessors, that the Ukraine was going to become poorer under the junta even without the war.

    And of course, the junta chose to have the war. If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war.

    And of course, the junta chose to have the war. If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war.’

    Well, at least you have the smarts not to include Russia and the way that it ‘organized’ its referendum in Crimea – a laughing stock seen throughout the civilized world resulting in the placing of sanctions on Russia by some 40 highly industrialized countries from around the world, that are still in place to this day.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Glossy
    If you think that the vast majority of Crimeans aren't pro-Russian, you don't know anything about that region. Western polling firms like Pew have confirmed that the Crimeans wanted to go back to Russia by a huge margin.
  40. @Glossy
    The Ukraine is poor because it's ruled by oligarchic thieves more than because of the war. Its government was more thievish than Russia's before the coup and it became even more thievish than that after the coup.

    If the "European choice" slogan was anything more than cynical BS, the Ukraine would have dealt with separatist feelings the way that the UK, Canada and Czechoslovakia dealt with them. Then there would have been no war.

    One consequence of this policy is that Ukraine, which had been ambivalent about Russia, has become definitely anti-Russian.

    Wishful thinking on your part. Public opinion in the Ukraine is divided along old geographic lines, hence the repression by the junta in the southeast.

    The Ukraine is poor because it’s ruled by oligarchic thieves more than because of the war.

    The billions in damage caused by the war and the drop in GDP has had far more of a negative effect than does oligarchic thievery.

    If the “European choice” slogan was anything more than cynical BS, the Ukraine would have dealt with separatist feelings the way that the UK, Canada and Czechoslovakia dealt with them.

    I didn’t realize Canada had armed non-elected activists and armed foreign adventurers taking over buildings and killing people.

    “One consequence of this policy is that Ukraine, which had been ambivalent about Russia, has become definitely anti-Russian.”

    Wishful thinking on your part. Public opinion in the Ukraine is divided along old geographic lines,

    Ironically, wishful thinking on your part. The most hardcore pro-Russian areas are no longer in Ukraine. Central Ukraine has become about as anti-Russian as Galicia had once been (in essence, Galicia has gone from having 4 million people to having 20 million people) and places like Dnipropetrovsk have become much more anti-Russian than they had been. As a result, Ukraine is no longer evenly divided between pro-Western and pro-Russian but is comfortably pro-Western. Yes, there are pockets of pro-Russian support, as in Kharkiv and to a lesser extent in Odessa, but these are now too small to influence national politics.

    Read More
    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Glossy
    I didn’t realize Canada had armed non-elected activists and armed foreign adventurers taking over buildings and killing people.

    AP finally comes out against the Maidan. :-)
  41. @Mr. Hack
    '

    And of course, the junta chose to have the war. If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war.'
     
    Well, at least you have the smarts not to include Russia and the way that it 'organized' its referendum in Crimea - a laughing stock seen throughout the civilized world resulting in the placing of sanctions on Russia by some 40 highly industrialized countries from around the world, that are still in place to this day.

    If you think that the vast majority of Crimeans aren’t pro-Russian, you don’t know anything about that region. Western polling firms like Pew have confirmed that the Crimeans wanted to go back to Russia by a huge margin.

    Read More
  42. @Glossy
    The Ukraine was already poor before the war. And the reason for that poverty (oligarchy, lawlessness) was exacerbated by the coup. The new gang always looked like they were going to be worse than the old one, with or without war.

    Putin already showed how to decrease the role of oligarchy in a post-Soviet economy and Lukashenko showed how to avoid that problem completely.

    Any Ukrainian government that wishes its peopke well would follow those examples. Further, it would be condemned by the kind of people who condemn Putin, Lukashenko and Orban.

    The endorsement of the Western media means that the government in question is corrupt. This is one of many indicators showing that the junta was always going to be more corrupt than its predecessors, that the Ukraine was going to become poorer under the junta even without the war.

    And of course, the junta chose to have the war. If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war.

    Putin already showed how to decrease the role of oligarchy in a post-Soviet economy and Lukashenko showed how to avoid that problem completely.

    Any Ukrainian government that wishes its peopke well would follow those examples.

    In that case, do you support Poroshenko consolidated all power in Ukraine in his hands? Do you hope he finishes off the leftovers of the old regime (Akhmetov) as well as Kolomoisky? Or – would you prefer if a SBU general came to power. Be aware that there was a large influx of pseudo-Banderists into the KGB in the 50s and 60s and the SBU reflects this.

    I suspect you would support “Putinization” in Ukraine if a more Russia-friendly boss such as Yanukovich was engaging in it.

    This is one of many indicators showing that the junta was always going to be more corrupt than its predecessors,

    CPI shows very modest decrease in corruption. However there has been slight increase in reported bribery in specific areas. There is no evidence that corrupti0n has significantly increased overall, only that it is about as bad. While that is certainly a failure, your statement is false.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Glossy
    Porky's only possible motivation in grabbing more power is to steal more money.

    It IS possible that a strong leader will clean up the Ukraine in the future, and it's even possible that it will be someone who wore the uniform of one of the volunteer battalions during the war.

    However, in his efforts to clean things up, nationalize stolen property, go after the oligarchs he would antagonize all the governments and institutions that support the junta now.

    He'd either be totally isolated or be drawn to some kind of an accommodation with Putin. Many forms of compromise could be found. Notice that the leaders of the global populist trend tend to stick together. There's a reason for that.
    , @rkka
    How's this for an indicator of Ukraine's well being since the Maidumb? In 2013, there were 503k births in Ukraine. In 2016 there were 397k. And Crimea accounts for only a small fraction of this decline. Ukraine's population decline is accelerating. And Ukraine's Western supporters are willing to defend Ukrainian independence to the last Ukrainian.
  43. @AP

    The Ukraine is poor because it’s ruled by oligarchic thieves more than because of the war.
     
    The billions in damage caused by the war and the drop in GDP has had far more of a negative effect than does oligarchic thievery.

    If the “European choice” slogan was anything more than cynical BS, the Ukraine would have dealt with separatist feelings the way that the UK, Canada and Czechoslovakia dealt with them.
     
    I didn't realize Canada had armed non-elected activists and armed foreign adventurers taking over buildings and killing people.

    "One consequence of this policy is that Ukraine, which had been ambivalent about Russia, has become definitely anti-Russian."

    Wishful thinking on your part. Public opinion in the Ukraine is divided along old geographic lines,
     
    Ironically, wishful thinking on your part. The most hardcore pro-Russian areas are no longer in Ukraine. Central Ukraine has become about as anti-Russian as Galicia had once been (in essence, Galicia has gone from having 4 million people to having 20 million people) and places like Dnipropetrovsk have become much more anti-Russian than they had been. As a result, Ukraine is no longer evenly divided between pro-Western and pro-Russian but is comfortably pro-Western. Yes, there are pockets of pro-Russian support, as in Kharkiv and to a lesser extent in Odessa, but these are now too small to influence national politics.

    I didn’t realize Canada had armed non-elected activists and armed foreign adventurers taking over buildings and killing people.

    AP finally comes out against the Maidan. :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    [comment slipped into moderation, perhaps due to edits]

    Pay attention to the words “non-elected” and “armed foreign adventurers.” in my statement. :-)

    Maidan represented the three political parties who had collectively won the popular vote in the most recent parliamentary elections. In contrast, the Russian activists represented marginal parties with no record of mass appeal or voters.

    Maidan fighters were Ukrainian citizens. There were a lot of foreign activists involved in the East. The guy who hung the Russian flag in the center of Kharkiv was a Russian tourist, for example. And the first military leader of the Donbas uprising, Girkin, was a Russian.

    So – no comparison between the two phenomena. Though Russian nationalists are desperate for it to have been so.

    Thank you for demonstrating you ignorance with respect to both Maidan and Donbas.
  44. @Anon
    France is a declining power, unable to dominate Europe even after winning the previous wars.

    France hasn’t won anything since 1918, and even back then it was saved by the British and the Americans.

    Read More
  45. @AP

    Putin already showed how to decrease the role of oligarchy in a post-Soviet economy and Lukashenko showed how to avoid that problem completely.

    Any Ukrainian government that wishes its peopke well would follow those examples.

     

    In that case, do you support Poroshenko consolidated all power in Ukraine in his hands? Do you hope he finishes off the leftovers of the old regime (Akhmetov) as well as Kolomoisky? Or - would you prefer if a SBU general came to power. Be aware that there was a large influx of pseudo-Banderists into the KGB in the 50s and 60s and the SBU reflects this.

    I suspect you would support "Putinization" in Ukraine if a more Russia-friendly boss such as Yanukovich was engaging in it.

    This is one of many indicators showing that the junta was always going to be more corrupt than its predecessors,
     
    CPI shows very modest decrease in corruption. However there has been slight increase in reported bribery in specific areas. There is no evidence that corrupti0n has significantly increased overall, only that it is about as bad. While that is certainly a failure, your statement is false.

    Porky’s only possible motivation in grabbing more power is to steal more money.

    It IS possible that a strong leader will clean up the Ukraine in the future, and it’s even possible that it will be someone who wore the uniform of one of the volunteer battalions during the war.

    However, in his efforts to clean things up, nationalize stolen property, go after the oligarchs he would antagonize all the governments and institutions that support the junta now.

    He’d either be totally isolated or be drawn to some kind of an accommodation with Putin. Many forms of compromise could be found. Notice that the leaders of the global populist trend tend to stick together. There’s a reason for that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    Porky’s only possible motivation in grabbing more power is to steal more money.
     
    Or to avoid having money stolen from him.

    It IS possible that a strong leader will clean up the Ukraine in the future, and it’s even possible that it will be someone who wore the uniform of one of the volunteer battalions during the war.

    However, in his efforts to clean things up, nationalize stolen property, go after the oligarchs he would antagonize all the governments and institutions that support the junta now.
     
    I actually agree with most of this.

    He’d either be totally isolated or be drawn to some kind of an accommodation with Putin.
     
    Putin is quite tolerant of corruption among allies.
    , @Glossy
    In concrete terms, a hypothetical populist, anti-oligarchic Ukrainian leader will face a new Maidan aimed at removing him, financed by all the forces that financed the first two Maidans, as well as the possibility of an army coup against him. In such a situation any help would matter, even from Putin and Russia.
  46. @Mr. Hack
    Yes, but the 'Hungarian' scenario that you allude to makes so much more sense in my way of thinking. I still have an optimistic streak buried deep inside myself, that probably is influenced by my Christian beliefs...A strong Ukraine could have meant a strong Russia too, I don't see any reason to believe that a poor, war-torn Ukraine will in the long term help Russia prosper the way it could if both countries cooperated, instead of being involved in a needless war. Good strong men that are needed by both countries to prosper are being wasted for the aggrandizement of the Russian mafia's pocket (and you know who the Russian godfather is). :-(

    Yes, but the ‘Hungarian’ scenario that you allude to makes so much more sense in my way of thinking.

    Allowing a Russia-friendly Ukraine to drift into the EU would probably be the more humane approach. Not sure if it would be better for the Russian State. It might give ideas to other countries who might follow out of Russia’s orbit. It might give ideas to Russians seeking another type of government, which would lead to instability.

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  47. @Glossy
    Porky's only possible motivation in grabbing more power is to steal more money.

    It IS possible that a strong leader will clean up the Ukraine in the future, and it's even possible that it will be someone who wore the uniform of one of the volunteer battalions during the war.

    However, in his efforts to clean things up, nationalize stolen property, go after the oligarchs he would antagonize all the governments and institutions that support the junta now.

    He'd either be totally isolated or be drawn to some kind of an accommodation with Putin. Many forms of compromise could be found. Notice that the leaders of the global populist trend tend to stick together. There's a reason for that.

    Porky’s only possible motivation in grabbing more power is to steal more money.

    Or to avoid having money stolen from him.

    It IS possible that a strong leader will clean up the Ukraine in the future, and it’s even possible that it will be someone who wore the uniform of one of the volunteer battalions during the war.

    However, in his efforts to clean things up, nationalize stolen property, go after the oligarchs he would antagonize all the governments and institutions that support the junta now.

    I actually agree with most of this.

    He’d either be totally isolated or be drawn to some kind of an accommodation with Putin.

    Putin is quite tolerant of corruption among allies.

    Read More
  48. @Glossy
    I didn’t realize Canada had armed non-elected activists and armed foreign adventurers taking over buildings and killing people.

    AP finally comes out against the Maidan. :-)

    [comment slipped into moderation, perhaps due to edits]

    Pay attention to the words “non-elected” and “armed foreign adventurers.” in my statement. :-)

    Maidan represented the three political parties who had collectively won the popular vote in the most recent parliamentary elections. In contrast, the Russian activists represented marginal parties with no record of mass appeal or voters.

    Maidan fighters were Ukrainian citizens. There were a lot of foreign activists involved in the East. The guy who hung the Russian flag in the center of Kharkiv was a Russian tourist, for example. And the first military leader of the Donbas uprising, Girkin, was a Russian.

    So – no comparison between the two phenomena. Though Russian nationalists are desperate for it to have been so.

    Thank you for demonstrating you ignorance with respect to both Maidan and Donbas.

    Read More
    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    The entire Kharkiv demonstration was enacted by Russian tourists. Mostly members of the Officers Club (from Voronezh & Rostov) who followed up their Defenders of the Fatherland Day get togethers the previous day with a trip to Kharkiv. All those Russian flags suddenly appearing in Kharkiv. Even Patrick Armstrong noticed it.

    The Officers Association was responsible for most of the anti Ukrainian demos in the Donbass too. Russian pensions were even then much higher than Ukrainian ones.
  49. @Glossy
    Porky's only possible motivation in grabbing more power is to steal more money.

    It IS possible that a strong leader will clean up the Ukraine in the future, and it's even possible that it will be someone who wore the uniform of one of the volunteer battalions during the war.

    However, in his efforts to clean things up, nationalize stolen property, go after the oligarchs he would antagonize all the governments and institutions that support the junta now.

    He'd either be totally isolated or be drawn to some kind of an accommodation with Putin. Many forms of compromise could be found. Notice that the leaders of the global populist trend tend to stick together. There's a reason for that.

    In concrete terms, a hypothetical populist, anti-oligarchic Ukrainian leader will face a new Maidan aimed at removing him, financed by all the forces that financed the first two Maidans, as well as the possibility of an army coup against him. In such a situation any help would matter, even from Putin and Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    In concrete terms, a hypothetical populist, anti-oligarchic Ukrainian leader will face a new Maidan aimed at removing him, financed by all the forces that financed the first two Maidans, as well as the possibility of an army coup against him. In such a situation any help would matter, even from Putin and Russia.
     
    1. Contrary to Russian wishful thinking, previous Maidans while involving oligarchs also depended on popular mass support. No mass support, no Maidan.

    2. Related to that, any populist leader asking for Putin's help would lose support and cease being a populist leader.
  50. @AP

    Putin already showed how to decrease the role of oligarchy in a post-Soviet economy and Lukashenko showed how to avoid that problem completely.

    Any Ukrainian government that wishes its peopke well would follow those examples.

     

    In that case, do you support Poroshenko consolidated all power in Ukraine in his hands? Do you hope he finishes off the leftovers of the old regime (Akhmetov) as well as Kolomoisky? Or - would you prefer if a SBU general came to power. Be aware that there was a large influx of pseudo-Banderists into the KGB in the 50s and 60s and the SBU reflects this.

    I suspect you would support "Putinization" in Ukraine if a more Russia-friendly boss such as Yanukovich was engaging in it.

    This is one of many indicators showing that the junta was always going to be more corrupt than its predecessors,
     
    CPI shows very modest decrease in corruption. However there has been slight increase in reported bribery in specific areas. There is no evidence that corrupti0n has significantly increased overall, only that it is about as bad. While that is certainly a failure, your statement is false.

    How’s this for an indicator of Ukraine’s well being since the Maidumb? In 2013, there were 503k births in Ukraine. In 2016 there were 397k. And Crimea accounts for only a small fraction of this decline. Ukraine’s population decline is accelerating. And Ukraine’s Western supporters are willing to defend Ukrainian independence to the last Ukrainian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    In 2013, there were 503k births in Ukraine. In 2016 there were 397k. And Crimea accounts for only a small fraction of this decline
     
    Donbas accounts for much of the rest. Decline there was catastrophic.

    Elsewhere, decline has been real but modest (other than Kiev city, which has seen an increase).
  51. @iffen
    I don't understand it either. This could just be my ignorance and an absence of ethnic confusion in the US for a frame of reference.

    Do most Ukrainians consider themselves as different and separate from Russians?

    If they are Ukrainian and want to be separate, is it because the "real" Russians won't accept them as Russian?

    Do Russians not want Ukrainians to be Russians? Do they want them to be 2nd class Russians?

    Can anyone trace this back to different Slavic tribes?

    Well I understand the issue as far as this: these eastern regions of Ukraine are populated mainly by Russian speakers who don’t feel much loyalty to independent Ukraine and would rather be part of Russia. They supported Yanukovich who was trying to keep the balance between Ukrainian and Russian nationalists, but when he was ousted and replaced by a Ukrainian nationalist, the ethnic Russians rebelled. I can certainly understand why Russia would take the side of its co-ethnics in eastern Ukraine, but then it’s strange that it would be reluctant to let those same co-ethnics actually move to Russia.

    I suppose my theory is that, while Russia is willing to a point to intervene outside its borders on behalf of fellow Russians, it doesn’t want to encourage mass immigration of ethnic Russians from abroad. AP provided some plausible explanations for this behavior.

    Read More
  52. @Gerard2

    With fewer Ukrainians interested in the ‘Russian project’, especially after the excesses of love shown by the ‘older brother’ towards the ‘younger brother’ in the Donbas, can you really fault Russia for feeling a need to replenish its populaton goals with Central Asians?
     
    There has been the highest increase in rate of Ukrainians moving into Russia after the coup that in any previous stage in Ukrainian history......you braindead cretin.
    Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian and receive considerable remittances from their family members working in Russia.....which was already in the millions before the Nazi coup.

    The "Ukrainian project" is dead because "Ukraine" is an artificial state
    The European Project for Ukrainian would probably need an asteroid striking and wiping out western and Northern Europe to have any chance of taking off
    That leaves only one viable alternative for Ukrainians....who remain obsessed with Russia

    “Most Ukrainians still speak Russian as a preferred language,prefer the Russian language comedies,dramas on TV,swear in Russian”. Also the case for 2 million Welsh out of 3 million. Doesn’t make them and I am one, English. I find Russian speaking Ukranians are much the same.

    350 thousand Ukrainians fled to Russia as refugees. Surveys suggest that they have settled better than the 1.5 million who fled to Ukraine as IDP’s although neither group shows much inclination to return to the Donbass. The first surge to Russia was a million, mostly young men from the Donbass fleeing conscription into one army or another. That 650 thousand has gone back home. In Saratov, they were sent out into the villages to pick potatoes. They didn’t like that.

    Read More
  53. @jtgw
    So why again is Russia supporting the Donbass rebels at all? I admit I don't really understand what's going on there.

    There were no rebels of consequence. The whole thing is a failed plot by Russian based nationalist groups, mostly Whites. To be fair, the rump they still occupy was not even claimed by Ukraine in 1917-1921. The border ran through Yusovka. However, their early stand in Slavyansk was well inside traditional Ukraine territory.

    Read More
  54. @5371
    The complicating factor for any potential decision to cut Central Asia loose would be Kazakhstan, which has too much territory, too many resources, and still too many Russians to treat it the same as the other countries.

    Not to mention that the RF is rather committed to greater integration with CA through the EurAsEC.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    I think this is the first comment you have ever made on this site which contains only one error (the EurAsEC is now called the EurAsEU).
    Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and even Tajikistan are not at present members of the EurAsEU. All but the first, however, do belong to the SCO, which enjoys much more visibility than the EurAsEU and provides a sort of framework for Chinese influence to smoothly expand at the expense of Russian, if that is allowed.
  55. @Glossy
    The Ukraine was already poor before the war. And the reason for that poverty (oligarchy, lawlessness) was exacerbated by the coup. The new gang always looked like they were going to be worse than the old one, with or without war.

    Putin already showed how to decrease the role of oligarchy in a post-Soviet economy and Lukashenko showed how to avoid that problem completely.

    Any Ukrainian government that wishes its peopke well would follow those examples. Further, it would be condemned by the kind of people who condemn Putin, Lukashenko and Orban.

    The endorsement of the Western media means that the government in question is corrupt. This is one of many indicators showing that the junta was always going to be more corrupt than its predecessors, that the Ukraine was going to become poorer under the junta even without the war.

    And of course, the junta chose to have the war. If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war.

    “If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war.”

    Not true. Almost the first thing Borodai did was lock up Nelly Shepter, the chief campaigner for the referendum and kill her #2. That was well before Girkin got the military confrontation seriously under way. The OCA wanted to provoke conflict.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Glossy
    You probably mean Nelya Shtepa, the mayor of Slavyansk? She's been jailed by the junta, as well as by the rebels. I'm not aware of her supporting any referendums, much less being a chief campaigner for them. Borodai appeared in the Donbass after his then friend Strelkov-Girkin became involved in the military confrontation there.
  56. @AP
    [comment slipped into moderation, perhaps due to edits]

    Pay attention to the words “non-elected” and “armed foreign adventurers.” in my statement. :-)

    Maidan represented the three political parties who had collectively won the popular vote in the most recent parliamentary elections. In contrast, the Russian activists represented marginal parties with no record of mass appeal or voters.

    Maidan fighters were Ukrainian citizens. There were a lot of foreign activists involved in the East. The guy who hung the Russian flag in the center of Kharkiv was a Russian tourist, for example. And the first military leader of the Donbas uprising, Girkin, was a Russian.

    So – no comparison between the two phenomena. Though Russian nationalists are desperate for it to have been so.

    Thank you for demonstrating you ignorance with respect to both Maidan and Donbas.

    The entire Kharkiv demonstration was enacted by Russian tourists. Mostly members of the Officers Club (from Voronezh & Rostov) who followed up their Defenders of the Fatherland Day get togethers the previous day with a trip to Kharkiv. All those Russian flags suddenly appearing in Kharkiv. Even Patrick Armstrong noticed it.

    The Officers Association was responsible for most of the anti Ukrainian demos in the Donbass too. Russian pensions were even then much higher than Ukrainian ones.

    Read More
  57. @Anatoly Karlin
    I have heard too many complaints about it to dismiss it as a one off.

    There are indeed many programs, but looking at the details, they all have rather narrow criteria that don't apply to many Russians abroad.

    For instance, here's a comprehensive (Russian language) article on that: https://sputnikipogrom.com/rights/33505/skotstvo-i-sovok/

    Read it. With Google Translate, I read Russian but not that well. The translation was amazingly good. They write very correctly at SiP, as you might expect.

    That is the best summary of FMS procedures I have ever come across. As you say, so much for fast tracking ethnic Russians or let us say, former holders of Russian nationality during Soviet times. There are some other gateways. If you are prepared to settle one of the free farm plots in Siberia there is some easy path. I have no idea where to look though.

    The hand of Stalin still lies on the FMS.

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  58. @Philip Owen
    "If it organized a referendum, like the UK did in Scotland, there would have been no war."

    Not true. Almost the first thing Borodai did was lock up Nelly Shepter, the chief campaigner for the referendum and kill her #2. That was well before Girkin got the military confrontation seriously under way. The OCA wanted to provoke conflict.

    You probably mean Nelya Shtepa, the mayor of Slavyansk? She’s been jailed by the junta, as well as by the rebels. I’m not aware of her supporting any referendums, much less being a chief campaigner for them. Borodai appeared in the Donbass after his then friend Strelkov-Girkin became involved in the military confrontation there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    I do indeed. Spelling varies widely. She was an active campaigner, indeed the main campaigner among elected officials for a referendum on increased autonomy for the Donbass. She also banned pro Maidan demonstrations on her patch the previous autumn. Borodai, a Muscovite, came to Donbass from Crimea where he helped to arrange the annexation. He was appointed Prime Minister of the Donbass by the Russian insurgents following their "referendum".

    She was the peace candidate. She had to be eliminated quickly.

  59. Like how it is done in “respectable” countries from Israel to Germany.

    *sigh*

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  60. @rkka
    How's this for an indicator of Ukraine's well being since the Maidumb? In 2013, there were 503k births in Ukraine. In 2016 there were 397k. And Crimea accounts for only a small fraction of this decline. Ukraine's population decline is accelerating. And Ukraine's Western supporters are willing to defend Ukrainian independence to the last Ukrainian.

    In 2013, there were 503k births in Ukraine. In 2016 there were 397k. And Crimea accounts for only a small fraction of this decline

    Donbas accounts for much of the rest. Decline there was catastrophic.

    Elsewhere, decline has been real but modest (other than Kiev city, which has seen an increase).

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  61. @Philip Owen
    Not to mention that the RF is rather committed to greater integration with CA through the EurAsEC.

    I think this is the first comment you have ever made on this site which contains only one error (the EurAsEC is now called the EurAsEU).
    Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and even Tajikistan are not at present members of the EurAsEU. All but the first, however, do belong to the SCO, which enjoys much more visibility than the EurAsEU and provides a sort of framework for Chinese influence to smoothly expand at the expense of Russian, if that is allowed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Both version apply, as in the EU, the EC continues for purposes of VAT and Customs Duty.

    The SCO is gurgling down the plug hole in terms of Chinese priorities. Not much else matters.
  62. You’d think Simonyan might be embarrassed to admit that she’s ignorant about how the regime she’s made a career shilling for actually operates in real life. But, no, she’s shocked, shocked! to find out that the bureaucracy and politicians are more often than not at odds with each other. Of course, most Russian citizens don’t have a clue about how the (now former) FMS works, and what its incentives are because, well, why would they? I don’t think I’ve ever met a Russian who knows that it’s written in the constitution that you must forgo your current citizenship to become a Russian citizen.

    I’ve lived in Russia for over twenty years, and have spent the last ten trying to get permanent residence on completely legitimate grounds, and still don’t have it. So cry me a river Margarita, with your administrative resources.

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  63. @Glossy
    In concrete terms, a hypothetical populist, anti-oligarchic Ukrainian leader will face a new Maidan aimed at removing him, financed by all the forces that financed the first two Maidans, as well as the possibility of an army coup against him. In such a situation any help would matter, even from Putin and Russia.

    In concrete terms, a hypothetical populist, anti-oligarchic Ukrainian leader will face a new Maidan aimed at removing him, financed by all the forces that financed the first two Maidans, as well as the possibility of an army coup against him. In such a situation any help would matter, even from Putin and Russia.

    1. Contrary to Russian wishful thinking, previous Maidans while involving oligarchs also depended on popular mass support. No mass support, no Maidan.

    2. Related to that, any populist leader asking for Putin’s help would lose support and cease being a populist leader.

    Read More
  64. @Glossy
    You probably mean Nelya Shtepa, the mayor of Slavyansk? She's been jailed by the junta, as well as by the rebels. I'm not aware of her supporting any referendums, much less being a chief campaigner for them. Borodai appeared in the Donbass after his then friend Strelkov-Girkin became involved in the military confrontation there.

    I do indeed. Spelling varies widely. She was an active campaigner, indeed the main campaigner among elected officials for a referendum on increased autonomy for the Donbass. She also banned pro Maidan demonstrations on her patch the previous autumn. Borodai, a Muscovite, came to Donbass from Crimea where he helped to arrange the annexation. He was appointed Prime Minister of the Donbass by the Russian insurgents following their “referendum”.

    She was the peace candidate. She had to be eliminated quickly.

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  65. @5371
    I think this is the first comment you have ever made on this site which contains only one error (the EurAsEC is now called the EurAsEU).
    Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and even Tajikistan are not at present members of the EurAsEU. All but the first, however, do belong to the SCO, which enjoys much more visibility than the EurAsEU and provides a sort of framework for Chinese influence to smoothly expand at the expense of Russian, if that is allowed.

    Both version apply, as in the EU, the EC continues for purposes of VAT and Customs Duty.

    The SCO is gurgling down the plug hole in terms of Chinese priorities. Not much else matters.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    This time your comment is entirely erroneous and useless according to your usual practice.
  66. @Philip Owen
    Both version apply, as in the EU, the EC continues for purposes of VAT and Customs Duty.

    The SCO is gurgling down the plug hole in terms of Chinese priorities. Not much else matters.

    This time your comment is entirely erroneous and useless according to your usual practice.

    Read More
  67. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    It sounds fairly Jewish to be Armenian and “ethnically Russian” at the same time. For complete Jewishness, perhaps she will get a French passport, and whine in English.

    If Rusian-ness can be defined in clear terms, so that the savage Central Asian guy is disqualified, by the same token, the Armenians are equally disqualified. Their home land, like Israel, is de facto in Asia. Armenian bombers and PhD are, like the Jewish ones, signs of what Indonesia could be if air conditioning and Western clothes would be more available.

    Read More
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