The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersRussian Reaction Blog
Russafrique
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Financial Times:

Moscow has sent planeloads of arms to the country, alongside five armed forces personnel and more than 200 private military contractors to train hundreds of elite troops.

Valery Zakharov, a former Russian intelligence official, is the national security adviser to CAR president Faustin-Archange Touadéra, and Russia is setting up a team inside CAR’s defence ministry.

This month, during a visit to Russia, CAR’s defence minister told state media that there was a “possibility” of Moscow opening a full military base in the country.

Such actions have unnerved France, CAR’s former colonial ruler and traditionally its most prominent foreign ally. Roland Marchal, a Russia-Africa expert at Sciences Po, says Moscow’s approach of supporting African leaders through government-backed defence and industrial deals is straight out of the “Françafrique” playbook of the 1970s and 1980s, when the state and commercial interests of Paris were intertwined.

“It’s pure Françafrique. Change the flag and you have the same methodology,” he adds.

This looks like a minor growing trend.

The Soviet Union sunk untold billions in development aid to the Third World, for questionable gain, and was rewarded with a knife in its back every so often. But these current ventures seem to be linked to concrete resource concessions, so at least they make economic sense.

Squealing from the former Western colonial powers upon whose demesne China and now Russia is intruding on is an added bonus.

I suppose providing a less geopolitically risky thymotic outlet for the sort of guys who sign up with Wagner might also be a consideration.

The main concern is that this doesn’t translate into African immigration.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Africa, Russia 
Hide 135 CommentsLeave a Comment
135 Comments to "Russafrique"
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. I’m not convinced that this is financially profitable in a narrow sense. Neither am I convinced this is profitable in a broader sense (politically). Theoretically you could extract concessions from France in exchange for giving up Africa, but that’s not how it works: you get committed, you don’t want to stab in the back your local allies, etc.

    And yes, there’s a risk of African immigration.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    , @KatakanBR
  2. Dmitry says:

    1. Good official relations and coordination with African governments, improves the situation in relation to future potential illegal immigration from African countries.

    As the inverse example of this – Israel has not deported any African immigrants from the main countries which illegally immigrate there (Sudan, Eritrea), because it does not have diplomatic relations with Sudan, and because its courts do not recognize safety of the situation in Eritrea. As a result of this diplomatic failure, parts of Israeli cities are conquered by African illegal migration, with the most negative consequences of unfilted illegal immigration (massive increase in crime and rape in the cities). Africans are freely conquering areas there and the Israel government has to allow them to remain and has to give the illegal immigrants work permits, medical treatment, school places for their children, etc.

    By comparison, Israel has close diplomatic relationship with Ukraine,RF,Belarus and Georgia. If any Ukrainian, Russian and Georgian, tries to immigrate or work illegally in Israel, and this is discovered by Israel – then Ukrainian, Russian and Georgian people will be instantly deported by the Israeli government (after some days in the prison).

    This is a counterintuitive result of how immigration agreements and law is regulated. Improving relations with government of the country, allows easy repatriation of its citizens, if a government decides to.

    Good coordination with African governments will allow easy repatriation of African citizens.

    2. Secondary topic whether promotion of Russian culture in “third world” countries (as is common in diplomacy), will encourage illegal and legal immigration from those countries.

    Clearly, it is not desirable that immigration would be encouraged. However, the strength of this affect could be limited in comparison to far more important geographic and economic factors of immigration.

    For example, there is massive official promotion of Russian culture in Syria for decades, and yet when there is mass emigration from Syria due to war (2011-), the Syrian immigrants choose to go to Germany/Sweden/Turkey/Lebanon, and not to Russia. (There are far more important factors deciding their immigration than culture promoted to them in school days).

    On the other hand, direct cultural exchange, which is including bringing students from “third world” countries to study without paying, or in part subsidized form, in the universities – is clearly creating some level of immigration.

    These scholarships for students of “shit hole countries” to study in universities, is the idiotic heritage of the USSR policy, which should have been ended many years ago.

    Even “training of the elite” of these countries is not a coherent concept: (i) there is no ideological/theoretical conflict with America anymore, that Africans could be propagandized to oppose; (ii) real elite of Africa have money and their children study in Switzerland/London.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  3. Mr. Hack says:

    Looks like back to the Cold War,if it’s not already here?…

    Whose move is it?…

  4. @reiner Tor

    France is not a great power anymore, and has nothing to offer in the form of concessions. Many African countries are rich in natural resources however, there is definitely money to be made in Africa.

  5. Anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:

    The only Africans who ‘stabbed Russia in the back’ were the Egyptians.

    Food riots, back in the day, opened the door for the USA and thus Israeli interests.
    Otherwise Gorbachev (traitor) more of less abandoned loyal African regimes.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    , @silviosilver
  6. Anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:

    Africans only immigrate to western Europe because of generous welfare states, to which they are ‘entitled ‘ to, despite never contributing to.
    Russia’s rudimentary welfare state, plus harsh climatic conditions, will act as a deterrent.

    • Replies: @216
    , @silviosilver
  7. What’s the visa situation for graduates of Lumumba University? How can this minimal neocolonization operation make it worse that Lumumba U?

    Also, what valuable resources are found in CAR at a cheaper price than in Russia?

    I though Russian army has learned that they should focus on American-like forces, and practicing with the balaka mobs is classified as a waste of time.

    • Replies: @KatakanBR
  8. DFH says:

    Are blacks capable of learning Russian?

  9. @Dmitry

    Good official relations and coordination with African governments, improves the situation in relation to future potential illegal immigration from African countries.

    It might also mean a greater likelihood to succumb to pressure from African governments for legal immigration (compare how Britain opened itself to migration after 1945 in an attempt to keep influence in the Commonwealth, or how common NATO membership facilitated Turkish immigration to Germany).
    Russia signed the UN compact for global migration after all, and its intention is clearly to facilitate mass emigration of Africans (which is in the interest of their governments, since it acts as a safety valve for dealing with all those discontent young men, brings important economic benefits through remittances, and increases the power of blacks globally which might also be an unspoken motivation).

    For example, there is massive official promotion of Russian culture in Syria for decades

    Is that really true, even after the fall of the Soviet union?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  10. Mr. Hack says:
    @DFH

    Condoleeza Rice conversed in Russian, and is also quite adept at playing classical music on the piano. Her biography indicates that she would qualify as a high IQ individual. Not only black, but a woman too?

  11. The reason for Russia’s presence in Africa is simple: Diamonds. Alrosa’s mines in Yakutia are being depleted and in order to maintain its position as the world ‘s largest diamond producer, Alrosa needs to open new mines abroad. Both the Central African Republic and Zimbabwe (ex-Rhodesia) have major diamond deposits. Diamonds in the Central African Republic are usually mined illegally by militias. I guess putin’s goal in Africa is to secure mining concessions from African governments for Alrosa and have Prigozin’s goons take care of the locals.

    • Replies: @songbird
  12. @Mr. Hack

    Condoleezza Rice is clearly of significant European ancestry though (iirc about half).
    I suppose one could find many purely African graduates of Lumumba university though who speak fluent Russian.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Truth
  13. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mr. Hack

    She identifies as being Black. I think that a lot of ‘Black Americans’ have a pedigree similar to hers. I don’t think that many would argue that there’s been a definite ‘whitening’ of the Black population in the states over the last 50 years.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  14. DFH says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Thanks Mr. Hack, that has really made me have a hard think about my preconceived notions of both women and African-Americans. Perhaps next you can show me a picture of a tall Chinese man or a Jewish plumber.

    I did find this funny article about ‘black Slavic studies scholars’ from a magazine called Trumplandia which appears to be mostly dedicated to covering Russia. Apparently Ukrainians are much more racist than Russians.

    https://trumplandiamagazine.com/black-bread-a-look-inside-the-world-of-black-slavic-studies-scholars-7579c6b2d5cd

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  15. @Mr. Hack

    She identifies as being Black.

    I know, but that’s due to the US’ one-drop rule, in Latin America she’d probably identify differently.
    Anyway, my point was merely that the existence of highly qualified individuals, especially of such mixed ancestry as Condoleezza Rice, doesn’t disprove HBD theories about the comparatively low average IQ of Africans.

  16. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    There are some which speak Russian natively.

    But more funny, there is an African man who lives in Tver region, who really doesn’t speak good Russian even after 30 years in Russia, but he still became a municipal politician and wins local elections (he’s popular with the villagers).

  17. Mr. Hack says:
    @DFH

    My personal auto mechanic is a Jew from Ukraine (sorry I don’t have a photo of him). He does great work and never seems to ‘jew’ me on his prices…

    Here’s a photo of a 7’6″ Chinese man:

  18. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    It might also mean a greater likelihood to succumb to pressure from African governments for legal immigration

    I don’t think any African government has enough power or influence to pressure a “great power”, as Russia is, on this kind of topic.

    Of course, given his general views on immigration, Putin might decide it’s a “cool idea”. But this is not a position which would be popular with public and he knows this, so he won’t “go Merkel”.

    Is that really true, even after the fall of the Soviet union?

    I believe so.

    By the way,the $10 billion debt forgiveness to Syria was as late 2005. (There was at least loyalty on a cultural level for this support).

  19. @Dmitry

    I don’t think any African government has enough power or influence to pressure a “great power”, as Russia is, on this kind of topic.

    I wouldn’t be so sure about that. It would be along the lines of “If you don’t help us with our population pressure – by taking some of our young people as immigrants or guest workers, only temporarily of course! – we’ll find another patron like the Europeans or the US”. Africans are already quite adept at using the language of antiracism for promoting African mass immigration…that Africa can’t be a “prison” for Africans, that “Fortress Europe” is evil etc. is a common refrain among African “intellectuals”. And since Russia hasn’t rejected that language, far from it, a Russian government might be susceptible to such demands and see giving in as an acceptable price for Russian influence (or mabye even as an essential part of some Russian civilizing mission).

    • Replies: @KatakanBR
  20. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    public and he knows this, so he won’t “go Merkel”.

    Well, of course, he already “went Merkel” many years ago on immigration topics (or Merkel “went Putin” on immigration topics). But you would not expect he would ever enter any guest work (legal migration) agreement with African countries, or that there would ever be need for more “cheap labour supply” beyond what is already available from neighbouring countries.

  21. Anonymous[287] • Disclaimer says:

    Since you went in OT by mentioning immigration already, here’s a footage from Bihać (Northwestern Bosnia&Herzegovina) last night – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBuKy7O0FMY , when spring starts these guys will continue their trip towards north.

    Which begs the question, who controls the IOM? I know it’s UN agency corporation , but on which basis they’re cooperating with local governments.

  22. @Dmitry

    I don’t really think it will happen under Putin.

    However, it might happen under his successors, if Russia goes liberal. For instance, Kudrin’s thinktank – Kudrin being probably the biggest bridge between Putin and the liberal opposition – published a major report calling for much more immigration a couple of years ago. And Alyona Popova, a SWPL Navalny fan popular amongst the young woke set, also argues for many more immigrants.

    I believe that Russia will go Orban/Netanyahu after Putin but if that (or RWDS) doesn’t happen then this is the future.

    • Replies: @Adam
    , @DFH
    , @Dmitry
  23. Adam says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Maybe the presence of foreigners will merely increase the likelihood of RWDS.

  24. DFH says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    1. We have a population decrease without migrants
    2. We need to learn to immigrate migrants in our society
    3. We are all people. We need to learn to live and work together without conflict.

    Now I understand where the ‘neoliberalism.txt’ meme comes from. Russian liberals just copy and paste western liberal talking points, even when they make absolutely no sense. You’re supposed to wait until after you’ve already brought in hordes of foreigners to start preaching to people about how integration is the only way to deal with them.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Dmitry
  25. @DFH

    Russian liberals are just as dumb as Hungarian ones. But they got less votes.

  26. Gerard2 says:
    @Anonymous

    The only Africans who ‘stabbed Russia in the back’ were the Egyptians.

    Food riots, back in the day, opened the door for the USA and thus Israeli interests.
    Otherwise Gorbachev (traitor) more of less abandoned loyal African regimes.

    Correct….and not long after building the Aswan Dam either

  27. Herald says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Condoleezza Rice a “high IQ individual” well perhaps, but one who wouldn’t have been missed for a moment if her ancestors had been left to tend their flocks on the Dark Continent.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  28. Dmitry says:
    @DFH

    It’s not quite true.

    Liberals include some of the people who complain about immigration. Although it’s partly just trivial product of opposition to the current government. Putin’s policy is strongly open borders viewpoint, so then people who don’t like the government find it easier (emotionally) to say opposing views on this topic.

    For example, Navalny attracts quite a large portion of liberals.

    Navalny’s personal policy is to restrict immigration from Central Asia and countries of Transcaucasia. This is his real belief, which I read him blogging about (in a very indirect way) years in the past.

    At the same time when there is an intelligent (if unpopular) liberal policy from the government like raising the age of pensions, which should have been maturely accepted – Navalny opposes this. Navalny is trash without principles.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  29. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    No normal people support in any popular numbers African immigration (or “guest working program” with any African country).

    Whatever is after Putin, is going to have less political capital or popularity than Putin.
    – so they would not risk such an unpopular and eccentric proposal.

    Business interests already have more than sufficient “cheap labour” supplies from neighbouring countries, so they will have no particular excitement for African workers.

    So we can conclude it’s extremely unlikely (even there if there are some crazier governments in the future decades), that a future government would propose this.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Okechukwu
  30. Mr. Hack says:
    @Herald

    And you would be missed if your own ancestors had been left in Merry old England (that is if you’re another progeny of the Mayflower cult)? 🙂

    Compare her resume to your own. Russophiles here should be enamored with her, she was after all responsible for writing Bush’s ‘Chicken Kiev’ speech.

    • Replies: @Herald
  31. Truth says:
    @German_reader

    What is clear, is that you are a bit of a scheisskopf:

    • Replies: @German_reader
  32. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    No normal people support in any popular numbers African immigration

    Excepting lonely old women importing young African princes from the internet.

    (Poor guy obviously just wanted Russian citizenship – he also later died in 2018 from the heart attack.)

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Anonymous
  33. @Truth

    You can read what she herself wrote about her ancestry:
    https://www.today.com/popculture/condoleezza-rice-recalls-complexities-her-heritage-wbna39618749

    My grandfather Albert Robinson Ray III was one of six siblings, extremely fair-skinned and possibly the product of a white father and black mother. His sister Nancy had light eyes and auburn hair. There was also apparently an Italian branch of the family on his mother’s side, memorialized in the names of successive generations.

    We still have a lot of trouble with the truth of how tangled our family histories are. These legacies are painful and remind us of America’s birth defect: slavery. I remember all the fuss about Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings a few years back. Are we kidding? I thought. Of course Jefferson had black children. I can also remember being asked how I felt when I learned that I apparently had two white great-grandfathers, one on each side of the family. I just considered it a fact — no feelings were necessary. We all have white ancestors, and some whites have black ancestors.

    Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice#Early_life

    Rice discovered on the PBS series Finding Your Roots that she is of 51% African, 40% European, and 9% Asian or Native American genetic descent, while her mtDNA is traced back to the Tikar people of Cameroon. In her 2017 book, Democracy: Stories from the Long Road to Freedom, she writes, “My great-great-grandmother Zina on my mother’s side bore five children by different slave owners” and “My great-grandmother on my father’s side, Julia Head, carried the name of the slave owner and was so favored by him that he taught her to read.”

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    , @Truth
  34. @Dmitry

    Sure, but if you had a poll on the matter, I am 99% certain that liberals will be more pro-immigration than all other political groupings, on average.

    E.g., “Judaists” are the most pro-immigration religious group, and given what we know about Jewish Russian political preferences…

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  35. Okechukwu says:
    @DFH

    Are blacks capable of learning Russian?

    If you’re not just trolling, then you’re currently the stupidest individual on the Internet.

  36. Okechukwu says:
    @German_reader

    You can read what she herself wrote about her ancestry:

    What’s your point? Wasn’t it the same preoccupation with inane racial theories that ultimately brought you Germans to your knees before your “untermensch” conquerors?

    • Replies: @216
  37. Herald says:
    @Mr. Hack

    My résumé is quite modest but is totally free of bloodstains.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  38. Okechukwu says:
    @Dmitry

    So we can conclude it’s extremely unlikely (even there if there are some crazier governments in the future decades), that a future government would propose this.

    Sure, if Russia wants to remain a third-rate country with a smaller GDP than New York City. But if it wants to be successful, it has to be a modern, progressive country that people want to visit, work in and study in.

    You can find a high degree of “racial purity” in Belarus — a closed, autocratic, moribund system where nothing seems to work. If that’s the model you aspire to, we have abundant examples of its abject failure.

  39. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Still political configuration is very different to America.

    In America, Trump’s primary policy is just immigration restriction.

    While, Clinton is not interested in the topic, but has some more open borders immigration policy.

    In absolute and proportional numbers, more liberals support Clinton.

    In Russia.

    Putin is more open borders immigration policy, while not very interested in the topic.

    And then unofficial opposition (with proportionally more liberal support) – Navalny – is immigration restrictionist (and it’s probably his main topic privately, as he used to blog about it a lot when he was more open).

    In absolute numbers more liberals support Putin funnily. But in proportionally, Navalny would a far more liberal base (of very small total numbers).

    E.g., “Judaists” are the most pro-immigration religious group, and given what we know about Jewish Russian political preferences…

    In absolute numbers, most Jews support Putin. But proportionally, there would be more votes for liberal parties relative to any other demographic in Russia I imagine.

    There is a Israeli political influence on Jews nowadays, so they might be more Islamophobia than average.

    I remember Roizman was always complaining about how they need to restrict immigration.

    Roizman never said anything with Islamophobia though. He said the immigrants are carrying drugs and diseases, so he didn’t like immigration but not really explaining why (and it probably contributed a bit to his popularity).

    • Replies: @neutral
  40. 216 says:
    @Anonymous

    That’s a narrative that should no longer be repeated.

    You can collect welfare AND work, possibly under the table.

  41. 216 says:
    @Okechukwu

    There’s no guarantee that the FIRE ponzi scheme will keep rolling on. Not much else is propping up the Western system. A world of automation, and decentralized education/employment may obviate the need to stack rows of bugmen on top of each other.

    The most successful megacities are rather authoritarian (Singapore, Hong Kong) and far more homogenous than any major US city. New York’s infrastructure is under serious challenges during a time of prosperity and abundant tax revenue.

    And it isn’t an accident that the state with the best quality of life in this country is Utah.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    , @Truth
  42. 216 says:
    @Okechukwu

    To use the language of FPS video games, note the K/D ratio.

    I’d put more stock in those insane theories, versus today’s even more insane theory of “the blank slate”.

    No amount of social engineering and welfare statism has delivered upon the utopian promises.

    But go ahead and bang your drum in my face.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  43. Mr. Hack says:
    @Dmitry

    Well, hear it is – what all of you burly white supremacists and separatists most ardently fear, protest, abhor, and rail against. A white Russian woman and an African black man that from all perspectives are fully in love with one another. So, what are we to do about this? Aren’t there any proud, white boys here ready to somehow try and separate these two? Where’s Karlin and his legion of Black Hundreds to the rescue? No Russian ku klux klan??…nobody here vociferously protesting this union?

    (I know, I read the comment where the poor man succumbed from a heart attack living with this A personality Russian Amazon woman – these women can be deadly!) 🙂

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  44. Mr. Hack says:
    @Herald

    Have you checked your stools lately?…

  45. neutral says:
    @Okechukwu

    If you want to talk about abject failures, then look at sub Saharan Africa and any other place with blacks in it (you will not find even a single exception to this iron rule). Blacks are the worst race in so many different ways, there is absolutely zero benefit in having them in your land. As for New York, it is having massive white flight, the end result of having too much third world rubbish is predictable.

    On the topic of Belarus, you can take that as your supposedly worst example and it still easily beats out your “best” (which I assume is Botswana).

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  46. Okechukwu says:
    @216

    There’s no guarantee that the FIRE ponzi scheme will keep rolling on. Not much else is propping up the Western system.

    Well, nothing lasts forever. But presently, the non-Western countries face profounder challenges.

    The most successful megacities are rather authoritarian (Singapore, Hong Kong) and far more homogenous than any major US city.

    Singapore and Hong Kong are hardly more successful than New York or London, both pretty diverse. In fact in the financial markets, Singapore and Hong Kong orbit New York and London, without whose patronage they would cease to function.

    New York’s infrastructure is under serious challenges during a time of prosperity and abundant tax revenue.

    New York’s infrastructure is old, much of it going back to the 19th century. There’s a tendency for developing countries to have spanking new things because they were built later. It’s also a function of how things are built in the United States. Things don’t get built by fiat or decree. The regulatory environment is exacting and lawsuits and countersuits can drag on for years. It’s the reason why third world countries build brand new oil refineries with the latest technology, whereas we haven’t built one in over 40 years.

    And it isn’t an accident that the state with the best quality of life in this country is Utah.

    West Virginia is whiter than Utah and it’s near the bottom in quality of life.

    Look, trying to explain outcomes in terms of HBD will always fail. You’re always going to encounter more holes than you can fill.

    • Replies: @216
  47. neutral says:
    @Dmitry

    In absolute numbers, most Jews support Putin

    Most jews in America, and other lands they have infiltrated, are anti white and thus anti Russia and anti Putin (and by most one can easily say at the 70/80% levels). As for Israel, jews there support grabbing ever more land from the rightful owners, so if Putin helps Syria survive he is not exactly going to be loved by many.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  48. 216 says:
    @Okechukwu

    West Virginia is whiter than Utah and it’s near the bottom in quality of life.

    A significant number of WV’s most talented people have migrated out of the state, the city of Akron, Ohio was once known as the “Capital of West Virginia” as many Appalachians moved there to take jobs in the then-booming tire industry. Out-migration has continued since then, despite an avalanche of federal cash brought in by Sens. Byrd and Rockefeller.

    And Appalachia’s sole metropolitan area, Pittsburgh, is frequently mentioned as one of the highest quality of lifes. This despite (possibly because of) the destruction of its industries in the 1970s. It also happens to be of the whitest metros, only Portland OR is whiter as metros go.

    There sadly isn’t a right-wing metro area, or even a single right-wing R1 university. Not a single F500 can be called “right-wing”.

    “Representation matters”, huh

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  49. Okechukwu says:
    @216

    No amount of social engineering and welfare statism has delivered upon the utopian promises.

    In the past, the same was said of all the ethnicities and countries that HBD theory holds are exemplars of genetically modulated intelligence, morality, altruism, impulse control and all the other nonsense. I can hear faint echoes of the very same things being said of the Irish, Italians, Russians, etc. Even Europe as a whole was subject to these epithets in antiquity and during the dark ages. A common belief during antiquity was that Northern Europeans were too stupid to function effectively as slaves.

  50. Dmitry says:
    @neutral

    In Russia, the large majority of Jews will vote for Putin for absolute numbers, just as most everyone (as a trivial result of the other candidates being so unpopular). Even in the Israeli overseas vote (which I wonder if it is the only data on this topic), Putin wins over 72% of the vote in the elections.

    On the other hand, Putin will win smaller share of the Jewish vote, than the vote of other nationalities (other nationalities we can be sure will have a higher proportion of votes for Putin than Jews, who themseves will have a higher than average ratio of voting for liberal candidates).

    For himself, Putin is one of the most philosemitic leaders in world history. It might be possible there will be a change from the current situation of the government support and funding for the Jewish religion and community after Putin leaves

  51. Okechukwu says:
    @216

    A significant number of WV’s most talented people have migrated out of the state, the city of Akron, Ohio was once known as the “Capital of West Virginia” as many Appalachians moved there to take jobs in the then-booming tire industry. Out-migration has continued since then, despite an avalanche of federal cash brought in by Sens. Byrd and Rockefeller.

    So if the best and brightest are migrating out of WV, the inference is that the state was at one time a powerhouse. Well, it never was a powerhouse. It was always desperately poor, desperately backwards, its only redeeming quality being its contiguous connection to more functional states.

    Anyway, cute excuses and rationalizations. A typical HBDer tactic and among the plethora of reasons the ideology isn’t taken seriously outside of Internet circlejerks. I told you there were way too many holes to fill when trying to attribute outcomes to HBD. And here you are, trying to fill holes.

    Look, the three states that maintain America as a leading first world country also happen to be three of the most diverse: CA, NY and TX. If these states were to disappear overnight, America would become second-rate nation overnight. As countries, they would be in the G20, and CA would be in the G7. They have vibrant, dynamic, diversified, world-class economies and industries. The whiter states, not so much. Many of them are one-trick ponies and relative backwaters.

    • Replies: @216
    , @Hyperborean
  52. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Just feel sorry for the poor man, that he has to pretend to feel romantic with this old woman for citizenship. And then even died last year.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  53. @Anonymous

    Africans only immigrate to western Europe because of generous welfare states, to which they are ‘entitled ‘ to, despite never contributing to.
    Russia’s rudimentary welfare state, plus harsh climatic conditions, will act as a deterrent.

    So what if it acts as a “deterrent.” Anti-drugs laws are a “deterrent” to cocaine consumption, but cocaine consumption is widespread nonetheless. It’s the same with Africans.

    The rule is: Africans get in wherever they can. Pretty much anywhere on earth is better than pretty much anywhere in Africa, so if an African can’t get into his first choice, he’ll try his second, if not his second, his third, and so, all the way down the list of 150 or so. (This isn’t exactly how it works. It’s more like African learns of a chance to get in somewhere, and even if he’d prefer to get in somewhere else, if it’s the only opportunity he perceives, he’ll most likely take it.)

    So “deterrents” aren’t enough. You need the will to keep blacks out, and the will needs to translate to ironclad laws, and the laws need to be enforced with state machinery dedicated to the task. Only then can you rest easy, safe in the knowledge that ain’t no negroids getting in.

    Without that, African infiltration is just a matter of time. Look how much headway they’ve already made, and then think how much more they’ll make as their population quadruples.

  54. @Anonymous

    The only Africans who ‘stabbed Russia in the back’ were the Egyptians.

    To minimal detriment to the Soviet position in the cold war, as it turned out.

    Somalia and Ethiopia both defied the USSR, despite their regimes being propped up the Soviets. In 1977, socialist Somalia decided to invade Ethiopia when the latter was in a state of turnmoil, contrary to Soviet wishes. The Soviets rushed massive amounts of aid to Ethiopia to prop up the nascent socialist regime, only to have that regime refuse the Soviets a naval base in Ethiopia – arguably a greater blow to Soviet interests (at least in hindsight) than Egypt’s betrayal.

  55. @German_reader

    I know, but that’s due to the US’ one-drop rule, in Latin America she’d probably identify differently.

    In America, blacks are the biggest enthusiasts of the one-drop rule. I’m not sure if you knew this.

  56. @Okechukwu

    But if it wants to be successful, it has to be a modern, progressive country that people want to visit, work in and study in.

    See, our lovable resident negroid only cares about what’s best for you.

    Never mind that his selling points only describe benefits to the newcomers.

    (In reality, of course, the fewer negroids that want to plunder – excuse me, enter – your country, the better.)

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  57. 216 says:
    @Okechukwu

    Look, the three states that maintain America as a leading first world country also happen to be three of the most diverse: CA, NY and TX. If these states were to disappear overnight, America would become second-rate nation overnight.

    I’d say that’s a feature, not a bug. The Shah’s Iran was well on its way to becoming a First World country, but that meant subservience to the West.

    As the Shoe Merchant said “Believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything”.

    I will be content without the poverty of the Central Valley, Rio Grande Valley, and the Bronx. Not to mention the relentless anti-white racism expressed at every single election.

  58. Okechukwu says:
    @neutral

    If you want to talk about abject failures, then look at sub Saharan Africa and any other place with blacks in it (you will not find even a single exception to this iron rule).

    Well I think Bermuda’s GDP per capita of $86,000 compares very favorably to Moldova’s or Ukraine’s $2,000 GDP per capita. Wouldn’t you agree?

    Blacks are the worst race in so many different ways, there is absolutely zero benefit in having them in your land.

    You and your motley collection of white nationalist morons can always find a nice uninhabited island to move to.

    As for New York, it is having massive white flight, the end result of having too much third world rubbish is predictable.

    New York City alone has a larger GDP than Russia’s. It’s the most important city in the world, with London perhaps second — both very diverse. Now compare these dynamic global metropolises to your typical ho-hum, moribund white bread cities.

    On the topic of Belarus, you can take that as your supposedly worst example and it still easily beats out your “best” (which I assume is Botswana).

    Belarus isn’t even close to being the worst country in Europe.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @216
    , @neutral
  59. Okechukwu says:
    @German_reader

    Anyway, my point was merely that the existence of highly qualified individuals, especially of such mixed ancestry as Condoleezza Rice, doesn’t disprove HBD theories about the comparatively low average IQ of Africans.

    It’s a stupid argument, and stupid arguments are not uncommon among HBD proponents.

    First of all, the number pure black Africans who are smarter than Condoleeza Rice would fill innumerable football stadiums.

    Secondly, per your ridiculous HBD theory, an individual who is a hybrid of an “inferior” and “superior” race should emerge drastically inferior to persons who are fully 100% of the allegedly superior race.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  60. @Okechukwu

    Look, the three states that maintain America as a leading first world country also happen to be three of the most diverse: CA, NY and TX.

    All of which were successful long become they became ‘diverse’.

    Why don’t you fulfill your dark Manifest Destiny in Nigeria? I am sure you would enjoy being away from these stale, hateful Americans who don’t appreciate your vibrancy.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  61. @Okechukwu

    New York City alone has a larger GDP than Russia’s. It’s the most important city in the world, with London perhaps second — both very diverse.

    No thanks to their deadweight populations of negroids, of course.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  62. @Okechukwu

    First of all, the number pure black Africans who are smarter than Condoleeza Rice would fill innumerable football fields.

    What’s her IQ? Assuming it’s 130, then based on our knowledge of pure African IQ, and generously bumping it up to 80, there would only be around 400,000 – 450,000 pure Africans with a higher IQ in a population of 1 billion pure Africans. So that’s about 6 or 7 football fields worth – hardly “innumerable.”

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  63. Okechukwu says:
    @Hyperborean

    All of which were successful long become they became ‘diverse’.

    They were not as successful before. Not even close.

    Allow me to school you on the facts of life.

    The white race isn’t exactly composed exclusively of Sir Issac Newton’s. Guess what, there are plenty of dumb and even dumber whites. Exceptional whites are rare in the extreme. The vast bulk of them aren’t at all extraordinary. I’m not indicting whites alone, this is true of every race.

    America, due to its primacy as the global superpower, and due to the way it’s organized, and due to other features and attributes which are serendipitous, attracts and even poaches many of the best and brightest of other races. So most times your average white person isn’t going to be able to compete with these smarter and hungrier non-whites.

    Okay, lesson’s over.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @silviosilver
  64. Okechukwu says:
    @silviosilver

    What’s her IQ? Assuming it’s 130, then based on our knowledge of pure African IQ, and generously bumping it up to 80, there would only be around 400,000 – 450,000 pure Africans with a higher IQ in a population of 1 billion pure Africans. So that’s about 6 or 7 football fields worth – hardly “innumerable.”

    Your assessment is based on fraudulent data. We don’t have credible African IQ numbers. It could be 90. It could be 100. It could be 110. We simply don’t know. And, really, no one cares. I will tell you that there are likely tens of millions of black Africans that are smarter than Condoleeza Rice, and a similar number smarter than Obama. Good luck securing those football stadiums.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  65. Okechukwu says:
    @216

    Who cares? Bermuda wouldn’t be a tax haven if it weren’t a stable, functional and orderly environment. White nationalist dimwits state that whenever black people congregate in numbers, anarchy and dysfunction ensue. That’s the argument the Bermuda example is meant to debunk. How it makes its living is irrelevant.

    • Replies: @neutral
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  66. @Okechukwu

    They were not as successful before. Not even close.

    Of course. I am sure that you would ex post facto claim that for any place you or your compatriots would like to immigrate to.

    So apparently, you are some smart uprooted Nigerian?

    Instead of trying to justify why you deserve to stay in America, why not return to Nigeria and use your and your diaspora compatriots’ smart-fraction level intelligence to improve your homeland instead of being resentful?

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  67. Okechukwu says:
    @silviosilver

    Never mind that his selling points only describe benefits to the newcomers.

    Russia entering into JV’s with African countries to extract metals isn’t beneficial to Russia?

    Russia increasing its international prestige and enhancing its national security with basing rights isn’t beneficial to Russia?

    Russia circumventing its containment by the West by cultivating new friends in new places isn’t beneficial to Russia?

    I believe Mr. Putin would beg to differ. He’s charged with protecting Russia’s interests. You’re not.

  68. @Okechukwu

    Your assessment is based on fraudulent data.

    It’s not “fraudulent.” It’s the best data we have. It may be incorrect, it may not be. We have to start somewhere.

    It could be 90. It could be 100. It could be 110.

    If environment matters, then it’s exceedingly unlikely to be higher than 85, which is the negroid IQ in countries where negroids enjoy the best living standards. (Although these negroids are not pure Africans, which is also something to consider.)

    We simply don’t know. I will tell you that there are likely tens of millions of black Africans that are smarter than Condoleeza Rice, and a similar number smarter than Obama.

    If “no one knows,” then how do you know there are so many negroids smarter than Rice and Obama, hmm? It’s just wishful thinking.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  69. Okechukwu says:
    @Hyperborean

    Instead of trying to justify why you deserve to stay in America, why not return to Nigeria?

    Probably because I’m American, born and bred. Why would I leave my country? Would you pack up and go back to your ancestral European homeland?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  70. @Okechukwu

    Okay, lesson’s over.

    What “lesson”? Who here do you imagine ever thought otherwise?

    Obviously the vast bulk of people of any race is nothing special.

    But it’s also rather obvious to me – and a growing number of people – that the vast bulk of Africans are even less special – much less special – than the vast bulk of anyone else.

    They were not as successful before. Not even close.

    You’d have to have rocks in your head – or be a self-centered, self-deluded negroid – to imagine that they became more successful because they added hordes of useless negroid deadweights to their populations.

  71. @Okechukwu

    Probably because I’m American, born and bred. Why would I leave my country? Would you pack up and go back to your ancestral European homeland?

    I am not American nor do I live in America. I am honest not to immigrate to a country whose people I don’t like.

  72. Anonymous[125] • Disclaimer says:
    @silviosilver

    London is a high crime, over priced, massively unequal disgusting shithole of a city.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  73. Okechukwu says:
    @silviosilver

    It’s not “fraudulent.” It’s the best data we have. It may be incorrect, it may not be. We have to start somewhere.

    Pioneer Fund “data” is never the best anything. It’s fraud.

    If environment matters, then it’s exceedingly unlikely to be higher than 85, which is the negroid IQ in countries where negroids enjoy the best living standards. (Although these negroids are not pure Africans, which is also something to consider.)

    But the pure African Nigerian-Americans have an average IQ of 110. And the traditional black Americans (descendants of slaves) when adjusted for 400 years of the most horrendous treatment, likely have an IQ higher than the white average. Btw, their IQ is currently 91.

    If “no one knows,” then how do you know there are so many negroids smarter than Rice and Obama, hmm? It’s just wishful thinking.

    Because there are very, very smart people in black Africa. It stands to reason, therefore, that out of a population of roughly 1 billion, tens of millions will be smarter than Rice and Obama.

    If you people really want to make IQ the prime arbiter of human intelligence, then you should be prapared to take risks. Step out of your comfort zones and take non-Westernized, non-Europanized IQ tests. To replicate the conditions under which Africans take your IQ tests, you should take a test in the Igbo language, that is steeped in Igbo cultural references. I’m fluent in Igbo and I’m conversent in Igbo culture, so I can produce the test. Then we’ll know if IQ really arbitrates human intelligence or if it’s just a learned or acculterated activity.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @silviosilver
  74. Anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    He probably copulated to death.

  75. Anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Okechukwu

    Yes. Yes. Yes.

    My *only* wish is that the ‘very smart’ fraction of Africans actually had some self respect and some racial and national pride, stay at home and use their undoubted talent, energy, determination, skills and high intelligence to build up the African economy – and African living standards – to the extent they beat whitey at his own game, just like the Chinese have done.
    I have no animus against black Africans. All I ask is that Africans give us the basic consideration of not trying to take over our homelands. And before you say it, colonization ended half a century ago.

  76. @Okechukwu

    Pioneer Fund “data” is never the best anything. It’s fraud.

    You have no evidence that it’s a “fraud.” You just don’t like it.

    Because there are very, very smart people in black Africa. It stands to reason, therefore, that out of a population of roughly 1 billion, tens of millions will be smarter than Rice and Obama.

    This must be an example of African reasoning that my non-African brain cannot grasp. Because you see, if you don’t know what the mean African IQ is, you have no basis on which to conclude that there must be tens of millions smarter than Rice and Obama.

    If you people really want to make IQ the prime arbiter of human intelligence, then you should be prapared to take risks. Step out of your comfort zones and take non-Westernized, non-Europanized IQ tests. To replicate the conditions under which Africans take your IQ tests, you should take a test in the Igbo language, that is steeped in Igbo cultural references. I’m fluent in Igbo and I’m conversent in Igbo culture, so I can produce the test. Then we’ll know if IQ really arbitrates human intelligence or if it’s just a learned or acculterated activity.

    Firstly, there are culture-neutral IQ tests.

    Secondly, if your argument holds water, it implies that east Asian immigrants must have even greater familiarity with white people’s culture than white people themselves – otherwise how can you explain why they score higher than whites on white people’s own tests?

    (Silly me, given your confidence, I thought you were much better acquainted with the IQ debate than this. I should have realized it’s just typical African posturing, hence the shit-tier IQ-denier arguments you are throwing up.)

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  77. Jon0815 says:
    @Okechukwu

    Sure, if Russia wants to remain a third-rate country with a smaller GDP than New York City.

    Assuming that statistic is true (technically I don’t think it is of NYC proper), don’t get too attached to it, because it won’t remain so for very long.

    Over time, nominal GDP converges with GDP (PPP). Russia’s GDP (PPP) is presently the same size as Germany’s. So as long as Russia maintains at least PPP parity with Germany, which it certainly will (in fact it will likely surpass Germany in PPP within a handful of years), it’s inevitable that eventually its nominal GDP will be at least as large as Germany’s (in 1999 Russia’s nominal GDP was 8% of Germany’s, in 2017 it was 43%).

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  78. Okechukwu says:
    @silviosilver

    You have no evidence that it’s a “fraud.” You just don’t like it.

    Oh, don’t take my word for it. Google Richard Lynn + fraud. And seriously, if you think that retarded Spanish children provide an accurate proxy for the people of Equatorial Guinea then you may not be bright enough for this discussion.

    You do understand that the IQ figures attributed to Africans by white supremacist imbeciles would render said Africans unable to perform basic tasks, right? If the IQ figures were true, no state in America would ever license an African immigrant to operate a dangerous automobile. Moreover, African athletes would automatically be relegated to the Special Olympics rather than the real Olympics.

    Lynn’s central thesis is the nexus between IQ and national wealth. But we know from history and from the present day that that just doesn’t work. Ireland collapsed over a potato fungus. Were they dumb then and are smart now? In just a few generations? Europe as a whole was a barbaric backwater for long stretches of history contemporaneous with sophisticated civilizations elsewhere. Were they dumb then and are smart now? Even today, there are countries purported to have high IQ’s whose citizens subsist well below the US poverty line. Mongolia, for example, with a GDP per capita of $3,700. Or even Russia with a GDP per capita of only $11,000. Or Belarus at $5,700 GDP per capita, and so on.

    This must be an example of African reasoning that my non-African brain cannot grasp. Because you see, if you don’t know what the mean African IQ is, you have no basis on which to conclude that there must be tens of millions smarter than Rice and Obama.

    I don’t believe there is a lower fraction of exceptionally bright or genius-level people among black Africans as compared to any other group. My opinion, that there are likely tens of millions of black Africans smarter than Rice and Obama is one with which I’m sure both of them would agree.

    Firstly, there are culture-neutral IQ tests.

    No, there isn’t. Look, no one is paying you to promulgate nonsense. Stick to reality. You think that if I was born and raised in some rural African village I’d have the same IQ on western intelligence tests? LOL.

    Anyway, if you believe in culture-neutral IQ tests then you won’t mind taking one in the Igbo language. You’ll have to learn Igbo first though.

    Secondly, if your argument holds water, it implies that east Asian immigrants must have even greater familiarity with white people’s culture than white people themselves – otherwise how can you explain why they score higher than whites on white people’s own tests?

    Maybe they do. Maybe they care more. Maybe they’re more motivated. That’s assuming your data is accurate. The IQ industry is replete with fraudulent data. I don’t believe East Asian immigrants would have higher IQ’s than native whites. Link me to the study. If you’re relying on Lynn for East Asian IQ numbers you’re wasting your time.

    I should have realized it’s just typical African posturing, hence the shit-tier IQ-denier arguments you are throwing up.

    What about the white people, many of whom are experts in the field (unlike you) who don’t believe that IQ captures intrinsic intelligence?

    Here’s one such white expert, Dr Jan Schnupp, Lecturer in Neurophysiology at Oxford University.

    “James Watson’s comments make it very clear that he is an expert on genetics, NOT on intelligence. No one has as yet managed to devise an intelligence test that can measure accurately how smart you are innately, and Steven J Gould’s excellent book ‘The Mismeasure of Man’ explains very nicely how conventional ‘intelligence testing’ invariably stacks the cards against individuals from an Afro-Caribbean cultural background. We know that people from an underprivileged background, undernourished and undereducated, will perform less well on such test than those who have the best conditions for their mental development. Race has nothing to do with it, and there is no fundamental obstacle to black people becoming exceptionally bright.”

    http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/scientists-react-to-comments-by-james-watson-on-race-and-intelligence-2/

    He said it perfectly.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @silviosilver
  79. neutral says:
    @Okechukwu

    “Whites are moving in, there goes the neighbourhood” said no person ever. You may think the mainstream news and entertainment outlets and their pathological n!ggerphilia is how most people think about blacks, but I assure you deep down most people have different views of blacks, the one that is based on reality.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  80. neutral says:
    @Okechukwu

    Bermuda is a tiny population, the reason it is what is has everything to do with the whites living there. Most blacks there are half breed mulattos. This Bermuda argument is as stupid as saying South Africa is wealthier than other African states because of the blacks people living there.

  81. Mr. Hack says:
    @Dmitry

    One of the ironies of his fate. He actually didn’t look to me like he was pretending too much from the video. Natasha’s son even seemed ultimately to approve of the whole affair. Perhaps, she had some Ukrainian in her genealogy and was feeding him too much rich food and salo, and the poor guy’s veins got all clogged up? Maybe you can shed more light on his early demise (ala Alfred Hitchcock?)?…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  82. songbird says:
    @DFH

    Is there actually such thing as elite African soldiers? Are those the ones that can safely throw a grenade – by not pulling the pin?.

  83. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mr. Hack

    How did the ‘Prince from Nigeria’ really ‘check out’? Was he indeed related to the ‘Prince from Minneapolis’ as some have suggested? Both Princes checked out quite early under similar murky circumstances?…

  84. songbird says:
    @Swarthy Greek

    Resource extraction from the sea is too expensive, but the Japanese may crack it in a few years.

  85. @Okechukwu

    Bermuda is only 54% black.

    A country can still be very functional if it’s got bright whites and Asians running things while Blacks predominantly do the janitor, cleaning, etc. jobs.

    See here: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/stupid-people/

    Of course once the Black percentage reaches critical levels, things begin to come apart (South Africa is at that stage).

    You’d have been better off citing Jamaica or Botswana as examples of (relative) Black success, but you’re a retard who thinks Africa has more middle-class people than China and matched European military technology until the 19th century, so you don’t.

  86. @Jon0815

    He believes that PPP conversions are pseudo-economics or something like that (perhaps he should convey his finding to the IMF and the World Bank).

  87. Truth says:
    @German_reader

    Well now, Fritz, the PBS show, like everything else on TV, is fake. And math was never my strength, but two white great grandfathers does not exactly add up to “half white heritage”, now does it?

  88. Truth says:
    @216

    So, Singapore is more “successful” than New York, LA, Paris or London?

    Well, let’s see, do you think you will find more Singaporeans living in New York or vice-versa.

  89. Truth says:
    @German_reader

    So this person…

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/04/condi-rice-stupid-hounding-105771

    …Would identify as “something other than black” somewhere else?

    Now Fritz, this person…

    …Identifies as something “other than male” right here in the US. So I guess that means that you find her attractive?

    Now, Mein guter Mann I’m starting to get the feeling that your posts are disproving the theories about the HBD theories of relatively high average IQ of Germans.

  90. Truth says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Bermuda is only 54% black.

    That’s a hell of a lot more than the Ukraine. From what I have heard, anyway, but the Ukraine doesn’t generate $86,000 a head.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  91. @Truth

    1. I countered that very point in the post you’re replying to (follow the link).

    2. The most successful, half-non black “black” country with a population of 60,000 that functions as a tax haven for global elites is more successful than what is probably the world’s least successful white country apart from Moldova. Congratulations, but I’m not sure what that is supposed to prove.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Dmitry
    , @Okechukwu
  92. Truth says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Other than Russia, and maybe the Baltics , The ex-Soviet Union is right in line, per-capita with the Caribbean (Bermuda is not Caribbean).

    https://www.caribjournal.com/2013/10/16/ranking-the-caribbean-by-gdp-per-

    capita/https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/groups/Former-Soviet-republics

    • Replies: @216
    , @Okechukwu
  93. 216 says:
    @Truth

    A lot of Caribbean countries have high levels of remittance dependency. Their main export is tourism from the West, and a few remaining agricultural commodities. The real export is labor in the diaspora. Even communist Cuba would be dead in the water if their Miami cousins weren’t sending money back (so many levels of hypocrisy there).

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/23/migrants-from-latin-america-and-the-caribbean-sent-a-record-amount-of-money-to-their-home-countries-in-2016/

    Today several thousand expatriate workers, principally from Britain, Canada, the West Indies, South Africa and the US, reside in Bermuda. They are primarily engaged in specialised professions such as accounting, finance, and insurance. Others are employed in various trades, such as hotels, restaurants, construction, and landscaping services. Of the total workforce of 38,947 persons in 2005, government employment figures stated that 11,223 (29%) were non-Bermudians

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda#Economic_and_political_development

    lol, Wakanda forever

    Keep banging the drum

  94. Truth says:

    A lot of Caribbean countries have high levels of remittance dependency.

    So does Bosnia.

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DDOI11BAA156NWDB

    Their main export is tourism from the West,

    So is Spain’s.

    https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2018/aug/30/why-tourism-is-killing-barcelona-overtourism-photo-essay

    Keep banging the drum

    I’ll leave it to Nathan.

    • Replies: @216
  95. KatakanBR says:
    @reiner Tor

    Algeria and ghaddafi´s lybia before he died are/were major Russian allies, did that translate into migration? no

  96. KatakanBR says:
    @German_reader

    They wont be able to use race as a card when the other competitor is china

  97. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    It’s useful to look at what they say though.

    Obviously back in the USSR, human capital level was ok, and it’s not the reason we would never be rich (in American terms).

    The reason was a limiting economic and political ideology, which also resulted in an idiotic foreign policy (this is another topic though).

    Look at Venezuela. Was there a huge change to human capital levels, or demographics, in the day before and after Chavez became President? No. Yet fate of the country is destroyed on that day.
    .
    Inversely, look at Chile. Is there change of human capital/demographics before and after Pinochet is President. No – but fate of the country is saved that day.

    Then there are a couple countries with majority brown (or part brown) populations, which are relatively successful through capitalism (although governments are quite militaristic in both):
    Chile and Israel

    So what would be really destructive or dangerous for America? Above all, it would be loss of the capitalist, market economy ideology, which their society is successfully structured over.

    America could be browner (as Chile and Israel). The human capital level could fall and limit future growth, but with adequate leaders like Pinochet, they would still be functioning.

    At worst, this should just be drag or limitation on economic growth.

    On the other hand, loss of their ideology and capitalistic tradition, could result in rapid and much more fundamental decline of the USA. (I hope America can avoid this and actually relearn the ideology which created their success).

    • Replies: @songbird
  98. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    Coups that result in regime change in Venezuela seem to have been getting rarer. Enlightenment-type people had seized on this and said it was a sign of things getting better. This was years before Chávez died and they began eating the trash and zoo animals.

    I have posited that this regime stability is actually the result of a longterm dysgenic trend. Chávez was probably the most Indian-looking president of Venezuela ever. Part of his power actually comes from a TV address he was stupidly allowed to make after a failed coup attempt, as part of a deal to avoid bloodshed. They did not tape the message and pre-screen it. he was allowed to make it live. And probably there were more TVs in Venezuela at that point than ever before. They saw his face – the other Indians. One of the things he said was “for now.”

    And now the trend has accelerated. Gene culture coevolution. Chile is also getting browner. Not to mention, Argentina.

  99. Yevardian says:
    @DFH

    Learning a language doesn’t require one to be particularly intelligent, just persistent and disciplined.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  100. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    London is a high crime, over priced, massively unequal disgusting shithole of a city.

    It always was. I remember being there in the early Thatcher years. It was a Third World dump then. I’m not talking about the immigrants – most of the native English lived like Third World peasants.

    But there were rich people who had very nice lives there.

    • Agree: Okechukwu
  101. dfordoom says: • Website
    @neutral

    “Whites are moving in, there goes the neighbourhood” said no person ever.

    When I was a young ‘un I can recall Housing Commission people (in other words poor whites) being relocated to nearby suburbs. The comments of existing residents were very much along the lines of “there goes the neighbourhood.”

  102. @Okechukwu

    You do understand that the IQ figures attributed to Africans by white supremacist imbeciles would render said Africans unable to perform basic tasks, right? If the IQ figures were true, no state in America would ever license an African immigrant to operate a dangerous automobile.

    I answer to this because it’s a common misconception. An IQ of 70 means mental abilities on the level of children. Perhaps an 11 or 12 year old. Such children are perfectly capable of operating vehicles in traffic (and they routinely do operate bicycles). Of course, they might be dumb and take stupid risks: African countries have horrible road safety statistics, even though the people driving cars are probably smarter, on average, than the population in general.

    But a child could be trained to operate a vehicle in traffic, nothing impossible about it.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  103. @Yevardian

    Was it not an obvious joke?

  104. Okechukwu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Bermuda is only 54% black.

    Yet many 100% white countries are complete shitholes, most of them in your neck of the woods. You’re actually barking up the wrong tree. Bermuda’s peers are not in Eastern Europe. Bermuda is a first world country. Eastern Europe is a developing region of second and third world countries.

    A country can still be very functional if it’s got bright whites and Asians running things while Blacks predominantly do the janitor, cleaning, etc. jobs.

    I suppose the Premier pictured here does janitorial jobs on the side:

    Here are Bermudan business leaders on a trip to Florida:

    I see only one or two white guys.

    Of course once the Black percentage reaches critical levels, things begin to come apart (South Africa is at that stage).

    A critical mass of whites in Russia certainly hasn’t helped you any, has it?

    but you’re a retard who thinks Africa has more middle-class people than China and matched European military technology until the 19th century, so you don’t.

    I’ve picked apart the few of your articles I’ve read for gross errors, lies, historical illiteracy, scientific ineptitude, and an overall detachment from reality. Unlike you, I don’t make any claims that aren’t supported by credible evidence. As I recall, I provided sources for the two claims you cite.

  105. Okechukwu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    The most successful, half-non black “black” country with a population of 60,000 that functions as a tax haven for global elites is more successful than what is probably the world’s least successful white country apart from Moldova. Congratulations, but I’m not sure what that is supposed to prove.

    There isn’t a single white Eastern European country, including your own Russia (in fact, most especially your own Russia) that could ever function as a tax haven to anyone but the clinically insane who would be crazy enough to domicile their assets there. Even Russians don’t trust Russian institutions to safeguard their wealth. In light of that, how do you think foreigners feel?

    Perhaps it’s the particularities of their genetics (or is it dysgenics?) that renders these Eastern European countries unremittingly corrupt, unabashedly untrustworthy and riven by a dense tangle of impenetrable and comically incompetent bureaucracy. Given that you’re a keyboard pseudo-“scientist” whose mission appears to be to establish genetic precursors for every trait, thought, action and outcome, what is your verdict? Sure, you would be laughed out of every scientific conference in the real world. But here in this den of fake science, you hold court. Your diagnosis would be greatly appreciated.

  106. Okechukwu says:
    @reiner Tor

    I answer to this because it’s a common misconception. An IQ of 70 means mental abilities on the level of children. Perhaps an 11 or 12 year old …blah blah blah

    Your point is moot since Africans do not have an IQ of 70. A 70 IQ meets the threshold for clinical retardation. Ironically, you’d have to be retarded to believe that Africans are retarded on average. You couldn’t prove with credible evidence that Africans have an IQ of 70 even if your life depended on it.

    Real African IQ is probably closer to 100 than it is to 70. IQ is supposed to measure functionality. Europeans and Americans, who allegedly have average IQ’s of around 100, do not function at a level superior to that of Africans.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  107. Okechukwu says:
    @Truth

    Other than Russia, and maybe the Baltics , The ex-Soviet Union is right in line, per-capita with the Caribbean (Bermuda is not Caribbean).

    Don’t forget that Russia’s GDP per capita is $10,700. Per your link, some Caribbean countries are doing better than Russia and some are doing worse. If you include other quality of life indicators such as press freedom, democratic institutions, speech rights, pluralism, individual liberty and climate, all are doing better than Russia.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  108. @Anatoly Karlin

    Is really that hard to just ban him? The site would be much more pleasant if we didn’t have to go around in circles with IQ-deniers who are not even arguing in good faith. If it’s a matter of proving to “the world” (or whomever stumbles across this blog) that you can win these debates, fine, but in general deniers are more motivated and have a much easier task (they don’t need to make any actual arguments, just pretend to), so it may well have the opposite effect.

    AK: Whenever he appears, I think public reminders of his numerous “powerful takes” from the past – e.g. PPP as pseudo-economics; African economic superiority over China; svidomy ideas about African military superiority – would be more effective than banning. New people won’t get the impression we’re thin-skinned authoritarians; intelligent people won’t waste their time trying to argue with him in good faith.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
    , @songbird
    , @AaronB
  109. @Okechukwu

    Don’t forget that Russia’s GDP per capita is $10,700.

    And also, don’t forget that the concept of purchasing-power parity eludes Oke.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  110. @Okechukwu

    What about the white people, many of whom are experts in the field (unlike you) who don’t believe that IQ captures intrinsic intelligence?

    The thing is, IQ-deniers don’t have any actual data, lol. Well, okay, they endlessly trot out the one single study that shows mulatto kids of Afro-American GI’s in Germany after WWII had IQ’s even with whites. That’s about it. The rest of their schtick consists of trying to undercut the hereditarian position by claiming it hasn’t yet completely proven it’s case, and therefore is wrong.

    The only reasonable conclusion is that they’re lying, that they’re scared shitless of what they think the implications of this knowledge being widespread would be.

    One last point before I cease all communication with you, IQ-deniers essentially claim that since IQ tests are imperfect measures of intelligence, the actual intelligence of some groups – like blacks, say – are therefore probably higher than that estimated by IQ tests.

    But if IQ tests are an imperfect measure of intelligence, then it’s logically perfectly possible that some groups – like blacks, say – are actually even dumber than measured by IQ tests.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Troll: Okechukwu
  111. @Okechukwu

    A 70 IQ meets the threshold for clinical retardation.

    In white countries that’s what psychiatrists came up with based on samples of whites who, when under 70 IQ, were usually incapable of driving cars or conduct everyday activities. But in all likelihood that’s not because of their admittedly very low IQs, but because they had very high genetic load (or often one very bad mutation), which resulted in their inability to perform even simple tasks. When compared to adults and not adjusted for age, 11 year old children will have adult IQs around or maybe below 70.

    But at age 11 children are perfectly capable of driving cars (they do drive race carts, often at very high speeds), or perform other everyday tasks (like shopping, counting change, etc.), so it is at least not inconceivable. By the way even if it was a very stupid thing to believe in, you wouldn’t have to be retarded to believe in it – smart people believe in stupid things all the time.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  112. Okechukwu says:
    @silviosilver

    And also, don’t forget that the concept of purchasing-power parity eludes Oke.

    Phony PPP adjustments won’t magically make Moscow less expensive than Los Angeles.

    Take it from someone who knows a lot more about economics than you and Karlin combined, PPP is a garbage metric.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  113. Okechukwu says:
    @reiner Tor

    In white countries that’s what psychiatrists came up with based on samples of whites who, when under 70 IQ blah blah blah…

    You’re talking to an African who was born and raised in a “white” country and has found most whites not all that keen intellectually in comparison to himself.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  114. Okechukwu says:
    @silviosilver

    Is really that hard to just ban him?

    This clown is really scared of me. He’s accustomed to echo-chambers where he preaches to a choir that nods solemnly to all his bullshit. That probably explains why he falls flat on his face in trying debate someone like me. He just has rarely encountered opposing views. And he’s rarely encountered an interlocutor that actually talks sense and can back it up with facts.

    My experience with Unz is that while it’s a white nationalist site in tone and content, it is not exclusionary. Sites like Stormfront or Daily Stormer might be better fits for you. There you can disgorge imbecilic pablum to your heart’s content without fear of running into someone like me.

    • Troll: Anatoly Karlin
  115. songbird says:
    @silviosilver

    Oh, I don’t know – he’s funny in small doses.

    Like, when he coyly says his parents effed in American and that makes him American born and bred. Or when he drops hints about his unified theory of negronomics – that niggers from Africa somehow revolutionized the world economy, not the steam engine or the transistor.

    I’m still trying to understand why he is not in Nigeria, since tickets are so cheap, and Nigeria is evidently going to be some techno-superstate, exceeding the US in population and thus by all power metrics. But I’m sure he has some good reason that he will explain by and by.

    • Troll: Okechukwu
  116. @Okechukwu

    Moscow less expensive than Los Angeles

    Maybe it’s more expensive, but Moscow is only a fraction of Russia, however you calculate.

    Anyway, if Russia is in general not cheaper than the US (I don’t know if it is or it isn’t – though consumer prices are not an ideal measurement for this, they use the GDP deflator for a reason), then the ppp GDP is not measured correctly. But what do you base this observation on?

    Also, do you understand how current GDP could wildly fluctuate merely due to currency rate changes, while neither living standards nor real production changes nearly as much? Especially in relatively closed economies like the US it should be a factor.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Okechukwu
  117. @Okechukwu

    Igbos are thought to be way more intelligent than other Africans. If I take it correctly, you are Igbo. It’s possible they are as smart as, or smarter than, whites in general. Besides, even with a mean of 70, some Africans will be smarter than most whites.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  118. Okechukwu says:
    @reiner Tor

    Maybe it’s more expensive, but Moscow is only a fraction of Russia, however you calculate.

    The same is true of many parts of the US relative to Los Angeles. There are some great real estate bargains in East Texas that would make an Angeleno green with envy, if not for the minor detail that they would have to live in East Texas. My Russian ex makes over six figures USD in Moscow. Certainly, Moscow is expensive, but she couldn’t make that kind of money in a monotown like Tolyatti. Further, she would be in the boondocks and would have to contend with poorer roads, poorer infrastructure, poorer services and penury all around her. Further still, while a big mac costs less in Tolyatti than in Moscow (remember, PPP in its modern iteration was based on the Big Mac Index), the cost of tradeable goods will remain more or less constant irrespective of location. So while housing is much cheaper in Tolyatti, cars aren’t.

    Anyway, if Russia is in general not cheaper than the US (I don’t know if it is or it isn’t – though consumer prices are not an ideal measurement for this, they use the GDP deflator for a reason), then the ppp GDP is not measured correctly. But what do you base this observation on?

    Russia in general probably is cheaper than the US (and Moscow) if you look at consumer prices in isolation to the exclusion of all other variables. Once you factor in the other variables, then Russia in general is not cheaper than the US.

    In many parts of the world, you could live like an American millionaire at a fraction of the cost to an American millionaire living that lifestyle in America. If you domicile yourself in a place with a GDP per capita of $300, you’d be rich even if your annual income was half of the US poverty level. But an environment that allows you such windfalls won’t be the most pleasant, nor the safest.

    In the past, I’ve written extensively on why PPP is a fraud. Indeed, why PPP is a dangerous metric. But Karlin likes to pretend that I haven’t debunked all his “hot takes” in crushing detail. I guess for the uninitiated, that might appear to be true unless one were to peruse my comment history on his articles. Karlin won’t even concede that PPP is merely a theory — one that has nearly as many holes as his HBD theories, or his whacky pronouncements on the short-term ascendency of China over the USA.

    Also, do you understand how current GDP could wildly fluctuate merely due to currency rate changes, while neither living standards nor real production changes nearly as much?

    That’s the difference between real and nominal GDP. Real GDP calculations are designed to account for inflation and currency fluctuations. The USA’s real GDP is approximately $20 trillion.

    Especially in relatively closed economies like the US it should be a factor.

    The USA economy is the most internationalized economy in the world. Its reach, depth and influence touch every corner of the world.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  119. Okechukwu says:
    @reiner Tor

    Igbos are thought to be way more intelligent than other Africans.

    Thought by whom? Maybe Igbos. Haha.

    There’s no credible evidence that Igbos are innately more intelligent than other Africans. Igbos do engage in certain Jew-like cultural practices (clannishness, emphasis on education and achievement, etc.). But those are sociological factors rather than genetic ones.

    It’s possible they are as smart as, or smarter than, whites in general.

    Sure, that’s entirely possible.

    Besides, even with a mean of 70, some Africans will be smarter than most whites.

    Again, the attribution of an IQ of 70 to Africans is a canard. I would like to see the evidence. Which Africans were tested? When? Where? How? Sample size?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  120. Okechukwu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    More to the point it is also ofc total BS.

    https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=Los+Angeles%2C+CA&country2=Russia&city2=Moscow

    Hahaha. If you really believe the figures on that website you’re even dumber than I had assumed. It’s a junk site that anyone can edit.

    Mercer Human Resources Consulting, using real data, ranked Moscow as the most expensive city in the world in 2008. For 2018, it ranks Moscow at #17. Los Angeles is ranked at #35.

    https://www.mercer.com/newsroom/cost-of-living-2018.html

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  121. @Okechukwu

    1. In 2008, at the very peak of the oil boom, when one USD bought 23 rubles.

    2. Sure, Moscow is relatively expensive, if you’re a retard expat who takes the first waiting taxi at Sheremetyevo and frequents establishments catering for expats, and your idea of acceptable Russian restaurants being constricted to caviar lounges with a view on Red Square. In that case I can just about imagine Moscow being slightly more expensive than LA.

    3. Anybody can edit Wikipedia, yet it is pretty reliable on most issues. Since it tallies with price estimates issues by organizations such as the World Bank and IMF, not to mention personal experience, I consider Numbeo to be more reliable than some consultancy catering to expats and business travelers and a retarded ape who was likely never in Russia in the first place.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  122. @Okechukwu

    PPP is a fraud. Indeed, why PPP is a dangerous metric. But Karlin likes to pretend that I haven’t debunked all his “hot takes” in crushing detail.

    You should publish it in a relevant peer reviewed journal. PPP is a metric used by most economists.

    PPP is merely a theory

    The same is true of GDP itself. It also has many holes, though it’s usually a good approximation for the size of the economy. Sometimes the holes are too big, for example Irish GDP gets artificially inflated by the subsidiaries of international corporations domiciled there, where they book their profits to benefit from the combination of a low Irish corporate tax rate and an English speaking country with English as the official language and a justice system based on common law. Of course Ireland is not nearly as rich as GDP would predict. But overall, when comparing most countries, GDP is good enough.

    No doubt PPP has its holes, too, but it’s often a better approximation than nominal GDP.

    an environment that allows you such windfalls won’t be the most pleasant, nor the safest

    It depends. Switzerland is very safe and very expensive. But Slovenia is nearly as safe, and way cheaper. Parts of the US could be equally safe and pleasant as Switzerland, but be way cheaper. You cannot just assume that the higher the prices, the better the quality of things in general. Moreover, you cannot just assume that the quality of the infrastructure, crime levels, etc. are going to be exactly proportional to the currency exchange rates. It’s actually pretty dumb to assume this, because then crime must have exploded and the infrastructure must have collapsed in Russia between 2013 and 2015. And obviously neither changed much.

    So nominal GDP is still a very bad measure, because it can fluctuate a lot from day to day or decade to decade, with little or no underlying changes.

    the cost of tradeable goods will remain more or less constant irrespective of location

    Even that is not always true. The same thing could be cheaper (or if it’s a rarity, then more expensive) in a small town than in Budapest – and Hungary is a small country. I guess the differences in Russia between, say, Moscow and Tolyatti (to use your examples) are even larger.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  123. @Okechukwu

    Thought by whom?

    At least it’s thought by HBD people. Here’s an example from Unz: http://www.unz.com/pfrost/the-jews-of-west-africa/

    the attribution of an IQ of 70 to Africans is a canard

    I don’t want to debate the exact numbers. I just wanted you to concede that it’s possible that Africans (or any other racial group or subgroup, including, say, Hungarians) have an average IQ of 70, and still

    – there’d be a few very smart members of said racial group or subgroup

    – they’d be capable of driving cars etc. (just as 11-year-olds are capable of that)

    Because two of your arguments were that there are some very smart Africans (true, but it could be true even with an African average of 70) and that they are capable of doing everyday tasks like driving cars or trucks reasonably well.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  124. Okechukwu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Sure, Moscow is relatively expensive, if you’re a retard expat who takes the first waiting taxi at Sheremetyevo and frequents establishments catering for expats, and your idea of acceptable Russian restaurants being constricted to caviar lounges with a view on Red Square. In that case I can just about imagine Moscow being slightly more expensive than LA.

    For me, any place I go is going to seem expensive to a backpacking pleb like you because I never travel cheap. So although I’ve traveled to Moscow on two occasions, I am an inadequate sample. But for visiting Moscovites whom we took to LA to see all the common tourist attractions, their constant refrain was how much cheaper LA was compared to Moscow. What’s more, their assessment is borne out by the data. I mean real data, not the fake junk you were trying to pass off to your stupider readers.

    I consider Numbeo to be more reliable than some consultancy catering to expats and business travelers and a retarded ape who was likely never in Russia in the first place.

    Of course you. After all, you revel in pseudoscience, pseudohistory and an alternative reality.

    • Troll: Anatoly Karlin
  125. Okechukwu says:
    @reiner Tor

    PPP is a metric used by most economists.

    If that were true, China would have the largest economy in the world. But virtually no economist assesses China to have the largest economy in the world.

    China’s economic power is actually a lot smaller than you think

    https://theconversation.com/chinas-economic-power-is-actually-a-lot-smaller-than-you-think-88307

    The same is true of GDP itself.

    PPP is described as a theory. GDP is not.

    What Is Purchasing Power Parity (PPP)?

    Purchasing power parity (PPP) is an economic theory that compares different countries’ currencies through a “basket of goods” approach.

    The Big Mac index suggests, in theory, changes in exchange rates between currencies should affect the price consumers pay for a Big Mac in a particular nation, replacing the “basket” with the famous hamburger.

    In “Burgernomics,” (2003) a prominent paper that explores the Big Mac Index and PPP, authors Michael Pakko and Patricia Pollard cite several factors as to why PPP theory does not line up with reality:

    for example Irish GDP gets artificially inflated by the subsidiaries of international corporations domiciled there,

    But that economic activity is happening in Ireland. The same is even truer of China. China’s economy would hollow out in the absence of the foreign corporations domiciled there. Chinese strongarm tactics that enforce the transfer of intellectual property from those companies is what has accelerated China’s growth.

    No doubt PPP has its holes, too, but it’s often a better approximation than nominal GDP.

    No. It’s theorizing that distorts the reality on the ground, and is therefore dangerous. Do you really believe that India has the third largest economy in the world, with a PPP of nearly $9.5 trillion dollars? Does India seem like a $9.5 trillion dollar country to you? Do you really think that Indians are wealthier and live better than Japanese, Germans, British, French, Italians, South Koreans, Canadians, Australians, South Koreans or even Russians?

    It depends. Switzerland is very safe and very expensive. But Slovenia is nearly as safe, and way cheaper.

    Of course. There are low GDP per capita places in Africa that are much safer than the United States. What I meant to say is that income is usually commensurate with cost of living. Staying with the Los Angeles theme, many people in that area will work in LA because in a nod to the high cost of living in LA, that’s where the higher paying jobs are. However, these people don’t live in LA. Rather, they commute 2-3 hours each way from outlying areas because that’s where the cheaper housing is. Their savings in housing are probably offset by the drudgery, stress and lost time (time is money) of engaging in those long commutes. These are the sorts of variables that PPP valuations fail to consider when doing country by country comparisons.

    You cannot just assume that the higher the prices, the better the quality of things in general. Moreover, you cannot just assume that the quality of the infrastructure, crime levels, etc. are going to be exactly proportional to the currency exchange rates.

    I meant the infrastructure, services, healthcare and predictability and reliability in policing, law and contracts that wealthier countries provide. Get sick or seriously injured in some of these low-income jurisdictions and you may die for want of medical attention. And good luck trying to enforce contracts in India, Russia or China.

    It’s actually pretty dumb to assume this, because then crime must have exploded and the infrastructure must have collapsed in Russia between 2013 and 2015. And obviously neither changed much.

    Crime and mafiaism in Russia did sort of explode in the immediate post-Soviet space. Since then and perhaps until recently, the homicide rate in Russia has been about twice that of the United States, despite the US being awash in firearms. I don’t really see how that citation buttresses your argument.

    The same thing could be cheaper (or if it’s a rarity, then more expensive) in a small town than in Budapest – and Hungary is a small country. I guess the differences in Russia between, say, Moscow and Tolyatti (to use your examples) are even larger.

    Maybe for locally grown fruits and vegetables. But not in tradable commodities like cars, in which case the market sets the price. Location is irrelevant.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  126. Okechukwu says:
    @reiner Tor

    At least it’s thought by HBD people. Here’s an example from Unz: http://www.unz.com/pfrost/the-jews-of-west-africa/

    HBD is not a serious scientific discipline. It’s a pseudo-“science” that finds resonance only within online circlejerks like Karlin’s blog here. My wife has a PhD in the biological sciences, emphasizing human genetics. I have traveled with her to various scientific conferences around the world. I have met Nobel Prize winners and potential Nobel Prize winners. And this HBD junk is never in evidence in their world.

    I don’t want to debate the exact numbers. I just wanted you to concede that it’s possible that Africans (or any other racial group or subgroup, including, say, Hungarians) have an average IQ of 70, and still

    – there’d be a few very smart members of said racial group or subgroup

    – they’d be capable of driving cars etc. (just as 11-year-olds are capable of that)

    I don’t believe it’s possible to derive large and even innumerable numbers of very smart people from a base population of 70 IQ morons.

    Because two of your arguments were that there are some very smart Africans (true, but it could be true even with an African average of 70) and that they are capable of doing everyday tasks like driving cars or trucks reasonably well.

    I use retardation as defined in the West, where the IQ concept originated. I won’t massage the definition to accommodate deeply flawed HBD arguments. If Africans are, on average, retarded then the average African should be retarded. But that simply isn’t the case. The rate of real retardation among Africans is no more or less than that of any other population.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  127. @Okechukwu

    If that were true, China would have the largest economy in the world. But virtually no economist assesses China to have the largest economy in the world.

    Because its international impact (e.g. whether a Chinese recession would result in a recession elsewhere) is mostly determined by nominal GDP. That’s what your article says, too. Anyway, the more closed economy a country has, the less exchange rates tell us. And it’s almost impossible that exchange rates perfectly capture the difference in quality of infrastructure, healthcare, etc.

    Do you really think that Indians are wealthier and live better than Japanese, Germans, British, French, Italians, South Koreans, Canadians, Australians, South Koreans or even Russians?

    It’s a pretty dumb question in the context of this argument. I mean, per capita, the Indians are much worse. When a large part of the GDP is subsistence farming, then of course it’s pretty meaningless. (E.g. in the context of the ability to keep a large military.)

    Crime and mafiaism in Russia did sort of explode in the immediate post-Soviet space. Since then and perhaps until recently, the homicide rate in Russia has been about twice that of the United States, despite the US being awash in firearms. I don’t really see how that citation buttresses your argument.

    My question didn’t refer to the “immediate post-Soviet space.” I specifically asked if you truly believed that the Russian economy collapsed by a whopping 40% between 2013 and 2015. (I didn’t check the exact numbers, just looked at a graph of quarterly GDP numbers, and the drop looked at least 40%.)

    What do you think collapsed that much in just under two years? Quality of healthcare? Infrastructure? Crime exploded? What is your theory?

    Let me tell you: the Russian economy was roughly the same size in 2015 as in 2013. A few percentage points smaller, but nowhere near 40% smaller. Change my mind.

    Maybe for locally grown fruits and vegetables. But not in tradable commodities like cars, in which case the market sets the price. Location is irrelevant.

    I doubt it. Dealerships’ cost of buying or renting their real estate are probably quite a bit different in Moscow and Tolyatti. (To keep the example.) Their employees’ salaries are different, too. Also, their prospective buyers’ purchasing power is different, so they might need to set different prices even beyond that. (Resulting in different profit rates for dealerships in Tolyatti than in Moscow. You don’t expect these to be the same either, do you?) In Hungary, even water prices are different in different cities, depending on local circumstances. (Moscow has a very small river relative to the size of the city, so water might be cheaper in Tolyatti.)

    What makes you think car prices (real prices, not list prices – I guess you have heard of special promotions etc., even haggling, so new cars might be sold at a really different price…) are the same in Tolyatti and Moscow?

    that economic activity is happening in Ireland

    No, it isn’t. It’s just that profits of the whole value chain (whose majority is elsewhere in almost each case) are booked there. Are you unaware that multinationals can shift profits between subsidiaries?

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  128. @Okechukwu

    HBD is not a serious scientific discipline.

    Well, it is or it is not, but when debating it, you cannot just assert it. It’s begging the question.

    My wife has a PhD in the biological sciences, emphasizing human genetics. I have traveled with her to various scientific conferences around the world. I have met Nobel Prize winners and potential Nobel Prize winners. And this HBD junk is never in evidence in their world.

    We know at least one not very smart Nobel laureate who thinks HBD is real. He’s been punished for it, lost his job, his social standing. Other Nobel laureates are probably smarter, and keep such thoughts to themselves, especially in the presence of black Africans or their spouses. So this appeal to (unnamed and unknown to us) authorities is not extremely convincing either.

    I don’t believe it’s possible to derive large and even innumerable numbers of very smart people from a base population of 70 IQ morons.

    Depends on the number of the population, but OK. The “innumerable” number is merely asserted here. In the original comment there were merely two examples of smart black people (I could give you a few more if needed, but definitely not innumerable), and I guess it’s impossible to just give us innumerable examples. So unless we can find some way of counting very smart black people (and find a way to define and measure their very smartness, IQ or not), this argument is not very useful here, either.

    If Africans are, on average, retarded then the average African should be retarded.

    Yes, but as I pointed out, even very smart children are retarded, too, when measured at a sufficiently young age. If you made an average 11-year-old fill out an IQ test, but changed his birth date from 2008 to 1998, the IQ result would be probably below 70. So, a retard. But average 11-year-olds are capable of driving cars or counting small change when shopping, which means that retardant people are incapable of doing these tasks for some other reason, not IQ alone. Which also means that if blacks had an average IQ of 70 (they are much higher in the US, for example, and I don’t know how reliable measures we have for Africa), then you wouldn’t easily notice it. Except maybe by looking at the amount of stupid they are doing.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  129. Okechukwu says:
    @reiner Tor

    Because its international impact (e.g. whether a Chinese recession would result in a recession elsewhere) is mostly determined by nominal GDP. That’s what your article says, too.

    That doesn’t make any sense.

    It’s a pretty dumb question in the context of this argument. I mean, per capita, the Indians are much worse. When a large part of the GDP is subsistence farming, then of course it’s pretty meaningless. (E.g. in the context of the ability to keep a large military.)

    Why would you trust a metric that is divorced from the reality on the ground, rather than one that tracks actual economic activity? You do realize that people with a PPP advantage relative to GDP aren’t getting paid right? The PPP valuation of the antebellum South would’ve been off the charts.

    A low wage economy is a low currency one. Inflated purchasing power parity-based exchange rates in the case of such countries puts a gloss on their poverty

    There is a less talked about but probably even more significant conceptual problem with using PPP estimates. In general, countries that have high PPP, that is where the actual purchasing power of the currency is deemed to be much higher than the nominal value, are typically low-income countries with low average wages.

    It is precisely because there is a significant section of the workforce that receives very low remuneration, that goods and services are available more cheaply than in countries where the majority of workers receive higher wages. When even these activities are further subsidised by the widespread incidence of unpaid labour (as is typically the case in poor households in low income countries) then it is clear that the greater purchasing power of that currency reflects conditions of indigence and low or no remuneration for probably the majority of workers. Therefore, using PPP-modified GDP data may miss the point, by seeing as an “advantage” the very feature that reflects greater poverty of the majority of workers in an economy.

    https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/columns/problems-with-using-pppbased-exchange-rates/article9981788.ece

    PPP exchange rates actually capture poorer living conditions.

    My question didn’t refer to the “immediate post-Soviet space.” I specifically asked if you truly believed that the Russian economy collapsed by a whopping 40% between 2013 and 2015. (I didn’t check the exact numbers, just looked at a graph of quarterly GDP numbers, and the drop looked at least 40%.)

    Evidently the Russian economy did collapse by 40%, and for a variety of reasons. Such wild swings are very possible in a small economy like Russia’s. Such a decline in the huge US economy would seem far less acute. Remember that in 2015, oil prices declined to $27. So a range of factors, including over-exposure to the vagaries of international commodity markets, sanctions and the collapse of the ruble, all led to diminished confidence and optimism, which in turn led to greatly diminished economic activity on the part of Russians. That is to say — fewer purchases, fewer loans, fewer business start-ups, fewer expansions of existing businesses, less production, reduced wages and more wage arrears.

    I doubt it. Dealerships’ cost of buying or renting their real estate are probably quite a bit different in Moscow and Tolyatti. (To keep the example.) Their employees’ salaries are different, too. Also, their prospective buyers’ purchasing power is different, so they might need to set different prices even beyond that. (Resulting in different profit rates for dealerships in Tolyatti than in Moscow.

    None of that matters, and for a very good reason. Under the scenario you are imagining car dealerships in Moscow would go defunct, as everybody in Moscow would flood to Tolyatti to buy their cars.

    Car manufacturers have set prices for their cars, which fluctuate very little from location to location. In fact what you are describing is illegal. There are gangs that take advantage of arbitrage opportunities whereby some specialty luxury cars in one country are priced much lower in another country. To transport a car for the purpose of selling it at a higher price in say, China, is illegal and could warrant jail time. Nowadays, if you buy certain new luxury cars in the US they will examine the transaction closely to make sure you’re not a straw buyer for one of these rings.

    In Hungary, even water prices are different in different cities, depending on local circumstances.

    Same in the United States. There’s no set price for water. It isn’t tradeable.

    What makes you think car prices (real prices, not list prices – I guess you have heard of special promotions etc., even haggling, so new cars might be sold at a really different price…) are the same in Tolyatti and Moscow?

    Price reductions are done at a very narrow band, under certain exigent circumstances that could very well apply to a Moscow dealership rather than one in Tolyatti. What is certain it that dealerships won’t sell cars at a loss. Their room to maneuver is narrow so you won’t see any sizeable price reductions unless the manufacturer itself is running a promotion. And that promotion would encompass the entirety of Russia for the reasons already mentioned.

    No, it isn’t. It’s just that profits of the whole value chain (whose majority is elsewhere in almost each case) are booked there. Are you unaware that multinationals can shift profits between subsidiaries?

    There are even more multi-nationals in China. Multi-nationals engage in economic activity which contributes to the GDP of the foreign country. If it makes it easier for you, think of it in terms of the United States. If you’re headquartered in one US state but are also doing business in another US state, aren’t you contributing to the economy of that other state even though your profits flow back to your home state?

  130. Okechukwu says:
    @reiner Tor

    Well, it is or it is not, but when debating it, you cannot just assert it. It’s begging the question.

    Either something is real or it isn’t. If I make up my own assuredly fake science, calling it fake would not be begging the question.

    We know at least one not very smart Nobel laureate who thinks HBD is real.

    Who would that be?

    And FYI, real scientists conduct experiments and produce data. And then that data is audited, investigated and peer-reviewed. That’s what happens at these scientific conferences. They present their research to their colleagues; they answer questions; they receive input and exchange views.

    Has this Nobel Laureate you’re referring to done that in support of HBD? Nobel Laureates are perfectly capable of being racists, one example being James Watson, who admitted as much. Therefore, what they say or think is absolutely irrelevant in the absence of concrete, verifiable and reproducible evidence. That’s how science works.

    Other Nobel laureates are probably smarter, and keep such thoughts to themselves, especially in the presence of black Africans or their spouses.

    What’s much, much, more likely is that other Noble Lauretes don’t believe that there is a nexus between race and intelligence. Why are you foreclosing that possibilty? Why are you accusing them of acting in bad faith for not recognizing an absurd, unscientific proposition? That race and intellingence are unconnected is actually a very rational assesment to make since there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDECE of such a connection. Real scientists working at this level don’t even recognize the concept of discrete human races.

    So unless we can find some way of counting very smart black people (and find a way to define and measure their very smartness, IQ or not), this argument is not very useful here, either.

    Why should it be restricted to counting very smart black people? How many very smart white people are there? Or very smart Asians, etc?

    But average 11-year-olds are capable of driving cars

    Maybe you wouldn’t mind being on the road with a bunch of 11 year old drivers. Me, I’ll pass. Some people think even 16 is too young.

  131. AaronB says:
    @silviosilver

    You are so confident in your intellectual position that you want to ban anyone who disagrees with you lol.

    But you’re completely different than the SJWs who want to ban your positions. Their desire to ban is bad and comes from an inability to argue their case , unlike yours, which comes from simply knowing you’re right.

    The alt-right, gentlemen. Completely different from the Left and a worthy alternative to it.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - If you are new to my work, *start here*. If you liked this post, and want me to produce more such content, consider *donating*.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Anatoly Karlin Comments via RSS