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Race Realism in Sport
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Epstein’s book about race differences in sport published in the West vs. a Russian translation of Dutton & Lynn’s book about race differences in sport published in Russia. :LOL:

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Human Biodiversity, Humor, Russia, Sport 
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  1. Is that a real statue on the cover of that Russian book? tbh it looks a bit like what one imagines hypothetical Russian Nazis would have come up with (that’s certainly how Western liberals would interpret it)…but what’s its real origin?

    • Replies: @utu
    , @songbird
    , @melanf
  2. utu says:

    ‘Nazis’ and Soviets had the same aesthetics as if they hired the same company form Madison Avenue. American Art Deco is very similar. Rockefeller sponsored of Diego Rivera.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  3. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Pretty impressive (in color) Athletes Parade 1939, Moscow.

  4. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    Soviet propaganda often contained beefy men (and sometimes women). Usually workers, but this just seems to be the exact same esthetic but in sport, which, of course, had its own propaganda value. It is probably more typical of communism than Nazism.

    The US actually had a period of somewhat similar art, mostly communitarian murals, sometimes made by secret commies and paid for by industrialists. Chinese tourists really eat it up today, and I don’t blame them. It is such an interesting contrast to the scenes one sees today in US cities.

    The Eastern Bloc put a lot of effort into the Olympics and the Chinese seem to be following their lead. What is funny is that earlier, the Chinese copied the same beefy style in art, even though they were generally much thinner. Their propaganda was obviously derivative.

  5. :LOL:

    Is that because of a Negro in American book? I’m missing the irony here.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  6. @Felix Keverich

    Only way for Westerners (especially handshakeworthy folks like Epstein) to talk about HBD in sport in polite company is to focus the lens on muscle-bound Negro ubermen.

    The Russians haven’t gotten that memo and are sticking with the original edition, for now.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  7. Okechukwu says:

    Race realism is a ridiculous pseudo-“science” in sport as in life.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @silviosilver
  8. iffen says:
    @Okechukwu

    Then you need to avoid science.

  9. anon[777] • Disclaimer says:

    Football, basketball, track and field, boxing, Americans rely on their black population to provide their sports spectacles. They’re used to working themselves up into drunken frenzies as they watch their favorite team, that is their favorite group of blacks, throw the ball around. Even when blacks are rare in some sport such as Olympic skating they’ll get an undue amount of coverage. There’s something strange about this which Americans can’t recognize since they’re too close up to this and just take it for granted.

  10. Bliss says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Karlin:

    The Russians haven’t gotten that memo and are sticking with the original edition, for now.

    How come the “original edition” looks like an imitation of the Nazi version? That memo should have been trashed when Hitler invaded Russia intending to kill and enslave the Slavic untermenschen. Put a Putin doppelgänger on the cover.

    Btw, if that’s the authentic Russian you are obviously a very foreign interloper….

  11. inertial says:

    This is not an (official) Soviet statue. Way too Moderne for that.

    BTW, here is the cover of another translated book published in Russia, this time by Richard Lynn.

    The title says, “Races. People. Intelligence. Who is smarter?”

    • Replies: @songbird
  12. @utu

    ‘Nazis’ and Soviets had the same aesthetics

    There were similarities, but they were clearly different. Hitler had a much better taste in architecture than Stalin.

    I think they only look almost identical when compared to the modern liberal aesthetic of transgender beauty and ugly modernism.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @melanf
    , @Hypnotoad666
  13. songbird says:
    @inertial

    I love it. It is so antipodal to modern American commercial imagery about race.

  14. i just thought it was somewhat accurate. west africans best at sprinting, and this guy looks like he’s coming up out of the blocks. europeans best at throwing, and that guy’s about to heave a shotput.

    i have the epstein book and it’s a more realistic, possibly to the point of being too nerdy and spergy, examination of sports across the world and over time. it’s definitely not complete negro worship, although he gives them their due.

    the entine book is certainly the negro worship book.

  15. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    There were similarities, but they were clearly different. Hitler had a much better taste in architecture than Stalin.

    That’s not true – more like you are writing on opposite day.

    Stalin had quite good taste in architecture (especially more for mass apartment buildings) – just see the elegantly kitsch, if decaying buildings in Volgograd; while Hitler’s taste was extremely bad.

    The problem with Stalin’s architecture is current situation of its dilapidation.

    You need to clean the facade

    Stalin’s ‘classicist buildings’ are a bit kitsch (but usually in a low level way)

    But for the Stalin’s normal city buildings, they would look fine when they were new

    Maybe a bit too kitsch

    The problem of Stalinist empire today, is more how we treat the facades – often dilapidated or painted to be more kitsch than originally.

    School buildings quite elegant/simple under Stalin:

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  16. @utu

    iirc Nazi art liked nude statues, because it emphasized racial features.
    Whereas Soviet art needed to include class markers like dress or working tools.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @silviosilver
    , @melanf
  17. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Stalin liked to deface nude drawings with rude comments.

    https://smarthistoryblog.com/2016/08/21/stalins-vulgar-humor/

    “YOU NEED TO WORK, NOT WANK. TIME FOR RE-EDUCATION. J. STALIN”

    “WHY ARE YOU SO THIN, MIKHAIL IVANOVICH? DO SOME WORK. ONANISM IS NO WORK. TRY MARXISM! HEHE! J. STALIN”

    “DON’T SIT ON STONES WITH YOUR NAKED ASS! GO JOIN KOMSOMOL AND RABFAK (WORKERS’ UNIVERSITY). SOMEONE GIVE THIS GUY UNDERPANTS. J. STALIN HEHEHE!”

  18. @Okechukwu

    Race realism is a ridiculous pseudo-“science” in sport as in life.

    That’s one possibility.

    Another possibility is that you’re a butthurt negroid, upset by its findings.

    I know where my money lies.

  19. @German_reader

    iirc Nazi art liked nude statues, because it emphasized racial features.

    That might be true if the only choice was between a nude statue and one clad in a burka. Otherwise I fail to see how nakedness emphasizes racial features, which in a statue would only be obvious in the face. And now I think about it, isn’t it at least as likely that nudity would shift the focus from the face – where race is obvious – to the body – where it is not?

  20. @Dmitry

    That’s not true – more like you are writing on opposite day.

    Oh please. Say whatever else you want about them, but the Nazis’ aesthetic tastes beat the pants off the commies’. Nazi architecture was dreamlike. Just splendid.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @Dmitry
  21. melanf says:
    @German_reader

    iirc Nazi art liked nude statues, because it emphasized racial features.
    Whereas Soviet art needed to include class markers like dress or working tools.

    In the USSR (as elsewhere in Europe), too, liked nude statues

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  22. melanf says:
    @German_reader

    Is that a real statue on the cover of that Russian book? tbh it looks a bit like what one imagines hypothetical Russian Nazis would have come up

    The sculpture is really strange, but muscular “Aryans” are not at all connected with Nazism (in Russia at least).

    Here is a Soviet painting of 1943 depicting the downed German ace (allegory of Stalingrad)

    And here the Soviet sailor – a twin brother of the German pilot

  23. melanf says:
    @silviosilver

    Say whatever else you want about them, but the Nazis’ aesthetic tastes beat the pants off the commies’. Nazi architecture was dreamlike. Just splendid.

    Can you give us examples of Nazi architecture?
    Nazi mega projects of buildings look extremely ugly

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  24. melanf says:
    @reiner Tor

    Hitler had a much better taste in architecture than Stalin.

    Stalin’s architecture was quite good

  25. @reiner Tor

    The nazis had those cool Hugo Boss uniforms. They definitely win on fashion.

  26. Dmitry says:
    @silviosilver

    You are another writing on opposite day. “That’s not true” = that is true.

    Stalin’s architecture is a pleasant architecture for many cities. It’s elegant architecture, which is now dilapidated.

    On the other hand, in no German city, is Nazi architecture best in the city – Hitler’s architecture is generally very ugly.

    Some years ago, we’ve even been on an architecture tour in Berlin, and we had a long time listening while looking at the various buildings. The ones from the Nazi era are some of the most ugly and even depressing of the city (e.g. Aviation Ministry), and it’s not only historical context which makes us think this: they are objectively depressing architecture and even must have been designed for that purpose.

    Stalin’s architecture was usually a soft, traditional and eclectic style, and many talented architects flourished in those years.

    Where there is a lot of continuity of Stalin’s architecture (e.g. some streets of Volgograd), it is an attractive city architecture.

    The problem is lack of money for restoration and upkeep of these buildings.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @reiner Tor
  27. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    There are examples of Nazi architecture still in Berlin.

    The Aviation Ministry is one example which is famous (it’s important in architecture history).

    There are others in Berlin, but I cannot remember their names.

    • Replies: @melanf
  28. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    20th century sculpture is generally (in all countries) quite bad.

  29. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    The Aviation Ministry is one example which is famous (it’s important in architecture history).

    Oh mein Gott! what a architecture nightmare

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  30. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    If purpose is construction of frightening buildings, for intimidation of the population, then the design is perhaps successful.

    In the Nazi time, it had giant stone eagles.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  31. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Dmitry do not BS us here. Show as Stalinist big buildings and structures. Lomonosov University for example.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  32. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    That skyscraper architecture, derivative of America (New York/Chicago) architecture of a few decades before it was built. I think the original buildings in New York like “The Manhattan Municipal Building”, are much more elegant than Stalin epoch copies.

    “The Manhattan Municipal Building” was completed in 1914 – so you realize how superior and original, American skyscraper architecture is.

    But Stalinist “Empire” style – it’s amazing variety of eclectic buildings, and generally elegant. Often some of the best buildings in a city today.

    The similarity with Nazis was in the neoclassical projects. But most neoclassical buildings from Stalin’s epoch, are not in a more large scale than any European city (the scale of Stalin epoch neoclassical buildings is usually less oppressive than many examples in America).

    • Agree: melanf
  33. You guys are comparing Stalinist apartment blocks built for the elite to a lopsided sample of Nazi public buildings. Sounds legit.

    The Aviation Ministry building was purposefully made to look very modern and intimidating, since it was supposed to be the headquarters of the most powerful air force in the world. (Never mind that the Luftwaffe never was so powerful.) I have only seen it once from the outside and I didn’t yet know what it was, but I don’t think it’s any worse than the Russian Ministry of Defense building (which I have only seen on pictures; the old Imperial Ministry of Defense building looks much better, at least on pictures, than either the Aviation Ministry or the current Russian Ministry of Defense), and it’s definitely much better than the Pentagon.

    Anyway, the Aviation Ministry building is quite atypical of Hitler’s architecture, much of which hasn’t survived. His best big public buildings (the new Reich Chancellery, the Munich Brown House, the also atypical Ordensburg Vogelsang or the Olympiastadion etc.) look better than big Stalinist public buildings. Stalin’s big buildings are in general uglier.

    And then you have to take into account the enormous destruction. Lots of great stuff was destroyed by Stalin, especially religious architecture. Hitler didn’t destroy valuable stuff to make room for uglier projects, unlike Stalin.

    It must be noted that Stalin ruled much longer, presided over a much larger transformation of society, with cities built from scratch. So you will find lots of apartment blocks (built exclusively for the elite) which will look nice. You should compare buildings of similar function.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @Dmitry
  34. melanf says:
    @reiner Tor

    You should compare buildings of similar function.

    Well new Reich Chancellery

    and Stalin’s Ministry of foreign Affairs

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Dmitry
  35. @Dmitry

    If purpose is construction of frightening buildings, for intimidation of the population, then the design is perhaps successful.

    What was the function of the Abu Simbel temples or the Ziggurats?

    One function of big buildings has always been to impress. Sears Tower was built so big to advertise the power of the company. Public buildings usually advertise the power of the rulers and also the power of the community itself. Which is why common people are usually proud of big and impressive public buildings.

    There is one example, the new Reich Chancellery, which was destroyed because it was felt that it was too impressive and they wanted to prevent it from becoming a neo-Nazi pilgrimage site. I don’t know how it would look like if it was still around, but it survived the war intact.

  36. @Dmitry

    in no German city, is Nazi architecture best in the city

    But is Stalin’s architecture the best in any (post-)Soviet city? Is anything built after 1933 the best in any city anywhere?

    And in Berlin the Reich Chancellery was easily among the best buildings.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @Dmitry
  37. @melanf

    It’s a matter of taste, but I find the Stalinist building way uglier. The best known symbol of Soviet power was the Kremlin, built centuries before.

    • Replies: @melanf
  38. melanf says:
    @reiner Tor

    The best known symbol of Soviet power was the Kremlin, built centuries before.

    The same applies to any country with ancient architecture. Architecture of the 20th century everywhere worse than the old architecture.

  39. melanf says:
    @reiner Tor

    But is Stalin’s architecture the best in any (post-)Soviet city?

    Definitely in Petrazavodsk (there are probably other examples, such as Yerevan)

  40. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    is Stalin’s architecture the best

    Yes it is not uncommon where it is the best architecture in the city. There was a massive construction with Stalin and generally elegant buildings (when they weren’t trying to imitate New York or Ancient Athens).

    Even for a city like Chelyabinsk which has many different architectures from different historical epochs – most of the more elegant buildings and streets, it’s from Stalin’s architecture (people will often assume those buildings are older).

    In Ekaterinburg, there were a lot of more modernist buildings, with massive construction from the first five year plan (because Ekaterinburg was focused to be the city of the future). And these buildings, still are elegant and stylish designs (if you can ignore the dilapidation of their current situation).

    Berlin the Reich Chancellery

    You are from Hungary – so I expect Hungarians to have a very good taste in architecture, and would be laughing at the vulgarity of a building like New Reich Chancellery.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @reiner Tor
  41. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    and Stalin’s Ministry of foreign Affairs

    Poor imitation of American Art Deco skyscrapers (because it is too short and wide for the construction style).

    • Replies: @melanf
  42. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    You guys are comparing Stalinist apartment blocks built for the elite

    Why for elite? There is massive construction of new buildings to create streets and city centre.

    Even ordinary school buildings were quite elegant designs in Stalin’s construction phase.

    Aviation Ministry building is quite atypical of Hitler’s architecture

    When in Berlin, we also saw other buildings of the 1930s Nazi epoch – one was a kind of combination of housing and office buildings, with a parkland behind it. It was really unattractive buildings (although the park space was nice). I can’t remember the names of these buildings?

    For some reason, it seems evident architecture was poor in Hitler’s Germany (especially for German standards), while with Stalin, it was an interesting and eclectic epoch of city architecture.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  43. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    Poor imitation of American Art Deco skyscrapers

    Of course it is worse than the Chrysler building, but it is well done as a stylization of the architecture of the Kremlin towers. This is quite a good building for a skyscraper

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  44. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    You are from Hungary – so I expect Hungarians to have a very good taste in architecture

    I do not know who is to blame, but in Budapest (which is a beautiful city) ugly concrete boxes are built right in the historic center. Architects and officials who allowed this should be hung on the gallows on the Danube embankment.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  45. @melanf

    Later (post-1956) communist era architecture.

    They also reconstructed the Buda Castle to be much uglier in the 1960s. (Yes, they waited twenty years to reconstruct the biggest landmark of the city…)

    Recently they are doing better, though they are still doing things for which they should be shot. Like destroying some old historical buildings to build parking garages and similar.

  46. @Dmitry

    I haven’t seen the new Reich Chancellery, since I was born decades after its destruction.

    But I don’t know what you guys expect. It’s a huge office building from which a huge country (actually, a planned empire) was to be governed. Can you show me a huge office building which is not vulgar by your standards?

    I think it’s much better than any skyscraper (though it’d be out of place in New York, but we’re talking about 1930s Berlin here), the Pentagon, the Soviet Foreign Ministry building or similar buildings. (Yes, better than Göring’s building.) I would say it looks nice for an imperial palace which was to be the seat of a head of state of an empire and his office.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @melanf
  47. @Dmitry

    Why for elite? There is massive construction of new buildings to create streets and city centre.

    Because construction was very small in quantity until Khrushchev. It was built for a small percentage of the population. (It was also much better quality than the Khrushchev apartment buildings – again, it was for the top 10% or so of the population.)

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  48. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    construction was very small in quantity until

    Yes, construction volume increases explosively only after Stalin (partly because of introduction of prefabrication and change of housing policy – elimination of workers’ barracks, etc).

    But it’s inaccurate to say construction was small with Stalin – it was a massive construction, which is how it is still the core buildings of many cities. Creation of whole new streets and city centres.

    Apartment buildings are sometimes luxurious, and “Stalinist Vampire”. But there is also mass construction of normal buildings, schools, factories, bathhouses, post offices. Whole districts and towns emerging from the soil and with quite good architecture (e.g. even Uralmash has quite good architecture if you only look at its original founding buildings from Stalin’s epoch and try to ignore the others).

  49. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    They were inspired by (pictures of) American art deco skyscrapers.

    For example, Manhattan Municipal Building (of 1914).

    But the original New York building (of 1914) are more elegant.


  50. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    Well, where is the normal, modest Nazi architecture? I know I saw in Berlin a Nazi apartment project, which was very ugly and modernist (but contained a nice park in the back).

    I can’t remember the name of the one in Berlin. But you can find similar examples for their beach resorts:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2123510/Hitler-holiday-resort-luxury-hotel-apartments.html

    When I think about Stalinist architecture, which is in many cities – I’m usually thinking eclectic buildings like most of these in the street below which are from the Stalin epoch (e.g. the design of those buildings is quite good, if they would be repaired better one day):

  51. melanf says:
    @reiner Tor

    Can you show me a huge office building which is not vulgar by your standards?

    Ha, Parliament in Budapest (one of the best buildings I’ve ever seen). Parliament in London. The Escorial.

    But here’s an anecdotal example from the 21st century: the Governor of the Republic of Mari-El (this poor deserted region on the border with Siberia) went crazy, and began to consider himself the reincarnation of Lorenzo Medici.
    Capital of the Republic (Yoshkar-Ola) in 2001:

    Of course, this city was not suitable for Lorenzo de Medici, and the crazy Governor began to build buildings in the form of mad palaces and castles

    Here are some office buildings:

    And this is a residential building (probably from dreams about Lorenzo de ‘ Medici). Sur of course, but it’s funny architecture.

    When the Governor was put in prison for embezzlement of money, such portraits were confiscated (the motto of the Governor is written on the portrait “in this sad world he dreamed of beauty”)

    Of course, this is a rare example of madness, but the buildings of Yoshkar-Ola are much prettier than the Reich Chancellery.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  52. @melanf

    But here’s an anecdotal example from the 21st century: the Governor of the Republic of Mari-El (this poor deserted region on the border with Siberia) went crazy, and began to consider himself the reincarnation of Lorenzo Medici.

    […]

    the motto of the Governor is written on the portrait “in this sad world he dreamed of beauty”

    Truly an enlightened ruler.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Dmitry
  53. @Hyperborean

    From ‘Mad King’ Ludwig II of Bavaria:

    Neuschwanstein Castle

    Schloss Linderhof

    Hohenschwangau

    Herrenchiemsee

    • Replies: @melanf
  54. melanf says:
    @Hyperborean

    From ‘Mad King’ Ludwig II of Bavaria

    I read a biography of Ludwig written in the early 20th century (before the WWI). In this biography, Ludwig was an example of a very bad ruler. And as an example of very good rulers described the great and brilliant rulers of Prussia (with their mighty army). But in the end (after world wars) it turns out that Ludwig (with its medieval castles) was better.

  55. Dmitry says:
    @Hyperborean

    This story is more funny.

    He was going on vacation all the time in Europe and he (or his wife) take photos of European buildings they like. This is then what architects had to build in the city, so they create “Bruges embankment” (because he had a nice holiday in Bruges).

    But then there filled the city with statues…

    For example Rembrandt (the famous Mari painter)

    Prince and Princess of Monaco

    Ludovico Sforza, Duke of Milan

    Angel Gavriil

    Goddess Savaria

    Medici family

    Ok this is some cool shit though – Baba Yaga

    Yoshkina koshka

    Mermaid with her cat

    Cows

    Blue Elephant

    Large hammer

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