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Eightfold Increase in Russian US Leadership Approvers
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gallup-usa-approval-2018

Russia’s greenness is immediately amusing set against the crimson autistic screeching of the West, but still, there’s interesting details hidden in detailed actual report.

For instance, Israeli approval increased the most of any significant country, by 14% points (only Liberia and Macedonia increased by more), to 67% total approval.

Meanwhile, while Russia’s approval did increase, it did so from an incredibly low base – it rose from 1% in 2015 and 2% in 2016, to a positively fawning 8% this year. Obviously, the more optimistic hopes for Russo-American relations didn’t exactly pan out. Still, considering what Trump has done to perceptions of “US leadership,” it is still perfectly legitimate for Russians to approve of his policy course.

 
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  1. Dat increasing approval in Belarus.

  2. The fact that both Russia and Ukraine are green is a good indicator of the schizophrenia that afflicts the USA, and increasingly the rest of the world. There are conflicting signals when it comes to foreign policy, but the way I see it, if Jeb or Hillary won this is exactly the foreign policy they would have enacted. So the way I interpret this poll is that in SJW infested states such as Britain and the rest of Western Europe, their disapproval stems from what their media is telling them about Trumps domestic action (immigration, Muslims, his supposed oppression of pink hat wearing women) and not so much about his foreign actions. In other places like Poland, Ukraine or Israel its all about foreign policy and people don’t care so much about US domestic concerns. In Russia, heaven knows why they went green?!?

    For Africa and specifically lands like Mali or Chad, I find it hard to believe that people living there care or even know about what Trump is doing. I mean why would Nigeria go green and next door Cameroon red? South America makes sense because its mostly brown latin types, and they hate the idea that they should not have right to flood into the USA. India I guess also has to do with purely immigration. Finally China being left out is truly strange, I would guess it might be red but not because of immigration but because of the talk of trade wars against China.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    China isn't the most convenient place to do polls in.
    , @German_reader

    their disapproval stems from what their media is telling them about Trumps domestic action (immigration, Muslims, his supposed oppression of pink hat wearing women) and not so much about his foreign actions
     
    Unfortunately that's probably mostly true, Trump-haters in Europe just take over the stupid talking points of US liberals and focus on Trump's alleged racism, sexism, Islamophobia etc.
    Meanwhile the dangerous foreign policy stuff his administration is doing (his handling of the North Korea issue, the attempts to wreck the nuclear deal with Iran, the decision to keep troops in Syria, sending arms to Ukraine) either gets ignored or is even regarded in some cases as actually positive, as a sign that at least parts of Trump's administration are committed to the "values" of the transatlantic community.
    His Jerusalem embassy move did attract a lot of criticism...on the other hand, at least in Germany there are a lot of supposedly "dissident" right-wingers who were stupid enough to even cheer about that.
  3. Absolutely insane. Arming Ukraine, continuing to put missiles around Russia’s borders, threatening a war with North Korea, staying in Syria, new and more aggressive nuclear doctrine advertised personally by Trump, etc etc and the Russian approval increases
    I don’t see anything “perfectly legitimate” about it.
    Not to mention the constant humiliations not exactly by the leadership but by the US in general, like the olympics bans fiasco.

    There are too many pro-western cucks there. Not just the liberals, but also the supposedly nationalist “intellectuals” at Sputnik i Pogrom, at the intellectual level of 15 year old plebbitors from /r/atheism .
    On a semi-related note, I don’t understand your high opinion of them and the claims that there are a more intellectual outlet than anything the Alt-Right produces. Even the fucking daily stormer is smarter than SiP in the rare cases when they say something seriously. I was pretty shocked by their recent “culture war” article, expecting to read something about the need to counter the western poz and faggotry and instead getting an article how Russian nationalists should fight FOR that and against any traditional spiritual values, which are just Putin propaganda apparently.

    And another recent article about the Kurds shows that they have the geopolitical understanding and expertise of an average MAGApede, shilling for some” based minority” that supports Israel.
    Or maybe Israel Shamir weighted them better than you when he suspected that they could be CIA shills.

    • Agree: JL
  4. @neutral
    The fact that both Russia and Ukraine are green is a good indicator of the schizophrenia that afflicts the USA, and increasingly the rest of the world. There are conflicting signals when it comes to foreign policy, but the way I see it, if Jeb or Hillary won this is exactly the foreign policy they would have enacted. So the way I interpret this poll is that in SJW infested states such as Britain and the rest of Western Europe, their disapproval stems from what their media is telling them about Trumps domestic action (immigration, Muslims, his supposed oppression of pink hat wearing women) and not so much about his foreign actions. In other places like Poland, Ukraine or Israel its all about foreign policy and people don't care so much about US domestic concerns. In Russia, heaven knows why they went green?!?

    For Africa and specifically lands like Mali or Chad, I find it hard to believe that people living there care or even know about what Trump is doing. I mean why would Nigeria go green and next door Cameroon red? South America makes sense because its mostly brown latin types, and they hate the idea that they should not have right to flood into the USA. India I guess also has to do with purely immigration. Finally China being left out is truly strange, I would guess it might be red but not because of immigration but because of the talk of trade wars against China.

    China isn’t the most convenient place to do polls in.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Does not stop other pollsters from doing that in China.
  5. Like American alt-rightists, they’re not terribly bright, and like American alt-rightists, they’re psychologically addicted to defeat.

    Hence their preference for inane and self-defeating political postures – like any other fringe movement, really.

    • Replies: @neutral

    Like American alt-rightists, they’re not terribly bright
     
    You got any numbers to back that assertion, yeah didn't think so. Now on the other hand lets compare numbers of the third world blacks, Mexicans, Arabs, etc that want to overrun America.
  6. @Anatoly Karlin
    China isn't the most convenient place to do polls in.

    Does not stop other pollsters from doing that in China.

  7. @Pavlo
    Like American alt-rightists, they're not terribly bright, and like American alt-rightists, they're psychologically addicted to defeat.

    Hence their preference for inane and self-defeating political postures - like any other fringe movement, really.

    Like American alt-rightists, they’re not terribly bright

    You got any numbers to back that assertion, yeah didn’t think so. Now on the other hand lets compare numbers of the third world blacks, Mexicans, Arabs, etc that want to overrun America.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
    IQ tests for all frog twitter denizens, image board NEETS and VNN dwellers are not necessary. The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0's rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard 'Buggery' Spencer is case in point), cringeworthy marches under slogans that are absolute goobledegook to the American public, and lack of any credible plan for gaining power. Such are the fruits of a movement of dim-witted malcontents quite content with irresponsible carping.

    Note that for all the evident idiocy of American blacks, they command far more political power than the alt-right is ever likely to.

    Think about why that is.
  8. Look at the red of Japan. Those sneaky little buck-toothed bastards with their racist homogeneous country. We need to start putting the economic thumbscrews to the Nips until they start accepting refugees and third-world immigrants.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That’ll turn the Yellow Devil green.
    , @Jason Liu
    Don't be such a jealous little shit. Japan probably dislikes Trump because of his brash mannerisms, not his policies.
    , @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    Japanese are defending their country as it is, and that’s their right. Visit Japan: it’s not a bad country at all, although it is much poorer than its government and the US would like you to think (everything is overpriced, like in Switzerland, without Swiss pay levels). Your advice would have them commit suicide like Western Europe, and then cry over spilled milk. Some countries, like Sweden, UK, France, and possibly Germany are already beyond salvage. Japan and South Korea still remain what they are, and I applaud that. I don’t want the whole world to look like Dakar or the slums of Nairobi.
  9. @Anonymous
    Look at the red of Japan. Those sneaky little buck-toothed bastards with their racist homogeneous country. We need to start putting the economic thumbscrews to the Nips until they start accepting refugees and third-world immigrants.

    That’ll turn the Yellow Devil green.

  10. @neutral

    Like American alt-rightists, they’re not terribly bright
     
    You got any numbers to back that assertion, yeah didn't think so. Now on the other hand lets compare numbers of the third world blacks, Mexicans, Arabs, etc that want to overrun America.

    IQ tests for all frog twitter denizens, image board NEETS and VNN dwellers are not necessary. The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0’s rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard ‘Buggery’ Spencer is case in point), cringeworthy marches under slogans that are absolute goobledegook to the American public, and lack of any credible plan for gaining power. Such are the fruits of a movement of dim-witted malcontents quite content with irresponsible carping.

    Note that for all the evident idiocy of American blacks, they command far more political power than the alt-right is ever likely to.

    Think about why that is.

    • Agree: polskijoe
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Note that for all the evident idiocy of American blacks, they command far more political power than the alt-right is ever likely to.

    Think about why that is.
     
    Because they are used both as pets and as pit bulls by a talented and powerful Jewish/SWPL crowd led by billionaires, media magnates and entertainment moguls. They wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell without Jewish/SWPL/billionaire support. Meanwhile, white advocates and alt-right people have to operate under constant harassment and even basic laws are not followed with regard to them.

    So basically a you are comparing a movement promoted by TPTB with a semi-illegal movement. Not a very honest comparison.
    , @neutral

    Think about why that is.
     
    Are you that stupid, you don't don't think the endless fawning and billions thrown their way by the jews and their government has anything do with it. In fact the blacks in America have had more money thrown their way than any group in all of history, despite that the results are not exactly amazing.
    , @Swedish Family

    The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0′s rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard ‘Buggery’ Spencer is case in point)
     
    They got Trump and Bannon into the White House, so that's something. As for Spencer, I don't remember hearing a word about him before that "Hail Trump" fiasco in the fall, so the movement is surely larger than his kind.
    , @polskijoe
    A large portion of the alt-right is controlled opposition.

    Spencer probably so, judging by his actions, probably connected to Liberty Lobby, or CIA.
    the dailystormer apparently created by a Jewish guy, who went to Ukraine (I guess the Bandera types welcome him).
    White nationalism is so tiny and irrelevent in a country like US. They have massive divides.

    Even the Paleocon more moderate approach (which today wouldnt succeed at all),
    on immigration, would be called Trump-Nazi-Fascist by a large portion of Liberals, Business Cons, and Progressives.

    Alt-right will get no where, unless they get billionares, infiltrate organizations, more organization.
    Easy for the CIA to exploit.

    The memes, are only copied by the alt-lite and Trump types(bunch of libertarians, average conservative, and some homosexuals are fund in this group).

    The conservative CIA got a bunch of useful idiots to vote for Republicans,
    and the show continued.
    The liberal CIA does the same with getting the New-left and Progressvies to vote Democrat.

    Neocons create or infiltrate varies smaller movements to get votes from dissendents. They also suckered the Evangelicals and New Right to vote for them.
    Liberals do the same.

    Then the Alt-right fights on the internet with All three, getting little done.
    On the streets, an alt-right who does something, goes after the "alt-left" aka sjws, blm, feminists, homos. They fight.
    And the elites continue marching on.

    Alt-right is a so called movement, yet only a tiny amount Americans can be categorized this.
    All the Spencers, Vox Days, WN websites, combined make little or no difference.

    You dont have money, you dont have elites, or media.. Pretty much all movements are top down over the past 100 years. (The 1% march was controlled opposition by Rockekfeller and Soros types).
    , @Jason Liu
    This guy is absolutely right. I wouldn't say the alt-right is stupid, but they have absolutely no idea how to wage a culture or political war. Pepe only takes you so far.
  11. @Pavlo
    IQ tests for all frog twitter denizens, image board NEETS and VNN dwellers are not necessary. The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0's rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard 'Buggery' Spencer is case in point), cringeworthy marches under slogans that are absolute goobledegook to the American public, and lack of any credible plan for gaining power. Such are the fruits of a movement of dim-witted malcontents quite content with irresponsible carping.

    Note that for all the evident idiocy of American blacks, they command far more political power than the alt-right is ever likely to.

    Think about why that is.

    Note that for all the evident idiocy of American blacks, they command far more political power than the alt-right is ever likely to.

    Think about why that is.

    Because they are used both as pets and as pit bulls by a talented and powerful Jewish/SWPL crowd led by billionaires, media magnates and entertainment moguls. They wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell without Jewish/SWPL/billionaire support. Meanwhile, white advocates and alt-right people have to operate under constant harassment and even basic laws are not followed with regard to them.

    So basically a you are comparing a movement promoted by TPTB with a semi-illegal movement. Not a very honest comparison.

  12. @Pavlo
    IQ tests for all frog twitter denizens, image board NEETS and VNN dwellers are not necessary. The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0's rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard 'Buggery' Spencer is case in point), cringeworthy marches under slogans that are absolute goobledegook to the American public, and lack of any credible plan for gaining power. Such are the fruits of a movement of dim-witted malcontents quite content with irresponsible carping.

    Note that for all the evident idiocy of American blacks, they command far more political power than the alt-right is ever likely to.

    Think about why that is.

    Think about why that is.

    Are you that stupid, you don’t don’t think the endless fawning and billions thrown their way by the jews and their government has anything do with it. In fact the blacks in America have had more money thrown their way than any group in all of history, despite that the results are not exactly amazing.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
    Sho massa, I is jus' a humble nigga waitin' fo mah forty acres an' mule from dem vatnik crackas, but do you not realise what a poor answer it is to complain that the other team got more patronage than you did?

    Life is rarely 'fair', and politics is even less so - there's no referee and no rules. Results are what matter, and the results of white nationalists' and alt-rightists' efforts are these: America is less white every year, people of quality overwhelmingly shun anything WN-connected* and the one alt-rightist who is a household name is this guy:

    https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1492/31/1492312188812.jpg

    Entryism of American institutions is the only path that could conceivably succeed, but, as Karlin might put it, the alt-right lacks the human capital to pull it off.

    *Time was white nationalists associated with the likes of Rear Admiral John Crommelin. Now they have Spencer - and Weev.
  13. Russia is becoming more similar to America in the way the people relate to their own country’s leadership.

  14. @neutral
    The fact that both Russia and Ukraine are green is a good indicator of the schizophrenia that afflicts the USA, and increasingly the rest of the world. There are conflicting signals when it comes to foreign policy, but the way I see it, if Jeb or Hillary won this is exactly the foreign policy they would have enacted. So the way I interpret this poll is that in SJW infested states such as Britain and the rest of Western Europe, their disapproval stems from what their media is telling them about Trumps domestic action (immigration, Muslims, his supposed oppression of pink hat wearing women) and not so much about his foreign actions. In other places like Poland, Ukraine or Israel its all about foreign policy and people don't care so much about US domestic concerns. In Russia, heaven knows why they went green?!?

    For Africa and specifically lands like Mali or Chad, I find it hard to believe that people living there care or even know about what Trump is doing. I mean why would Nigeria go green and next door Cameroon red? South America makes sense because its mostly brown latin types, and they hate the idea that they should not have right to flood into the USA. India I guess also has to do with purely immigration. Finally China being left out is truly strange, I would guess it might be red but not because of immigration but because of the talk of trade wars against China.

    their disapproval stems from what their media is telling them about Trumps domestic action (immigration, Muslims, his supposed oppression of pink hat wearing women) and not so much about his foreign actions

    Unfortunately that’s probably mostly true, Trump-haters in Europe just take over the stupid talking points of US liberals and focus on Trump’s alleged racism, sexism, Islamophobia etc.
    Meanwhile the dangerous foreign policy stuff his administration is doing (his handling of the North Korea issue, the attempts to wreck the nuclear deal with Iran, the decision to keep troops in Syria, sending arms to Ukraine) either gets ignored or is even regarded in some cases as actually positive, as a sign that at least parts of Trump’s administration are committed to the “values” of the transatlantic community.
    His Jerusalem embassy move did attract a lot of criticism…on the other hand, at least in Germany there are a lot of supposedly “dissident” right-wingers who were stupid enough to even cheer about that.

    • Replies: @songbird
    Some people say that anything that drives Arabs crazy is 4D chess.
  15. I’m sure Trump doesn’t care what some country that has >25% HIV per capita thinks of him. Quite the contrary, if Swaziland and Lesotho approve of you, you are probably doing something wrong.

  16. @German_reader

    their disapproval stems from what their media is telling them about Trumps domestic action (immigration, Muslims, his supposed oppression of pink hat wearing women) and not so much about his foreign actions
     
    Unfortunately that's probably mostly true, Trump-haters in Europe just take over the stupid talking points of US liberals and focus on Trump's alleged racism, sexism, Islamophobia etc.
    Meanwhile the dangerous foreign policy stuff his administration is doing (his handling of the North Korea issue, the attempts to wreck the nuclear deal with Iran, the decision to keep troops in Syria, sending arms to Ukraine) either gets ignored or is even regarded in some cases as actually positive, as a sign that at least parts of Trump's administration are committed to the "values" of the transatlantic community.
    His Jerusalem embassy move did attract a lot of criticism...on the other hand, at least in Germany there are a lot of supposedly "dissident" right-wingers who were stupid enough to even cheer about that.

    Some people say that anything that drives Arabs crazy is 4D chess.

  17. @Pavlo
    IQ tests for all frog twitter denizens, image board NEETS and VNN dwellers are not necessary. The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0's rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard 'Buggery' Spencer is case in point), cringeworthy marches under slogans that are absolute goobledegook to the American public, and lack of any credible plan for gaining power. Such are the fruits of a movement of dim-witted malcontents quite content with irresponsible carping.

    Note that for all the evident idiocy of American blacks, they command far more political power than the alt-right is ever likely to.

    Think about why that is.

    The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0′s rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard ‘Buggery’ Spencer is case in point)

    They got Trump and Bannon into the White House, so that’s something. As for Spencer, I don’t remember hearing a word about him before that “Hail Trump” fiasco in the fall, so the movement is surely larger than his kind.

    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    They got Trump and Bannon into the White House
     
    Only in the imagination of Hillary Clinton. In reality, they cost the campaign more votes than they contributed. Likewise with the imaginary 'Russia hacking', which is used simply as a Democrat tactic to discredit the administration.
  18. @Swedish Family

    The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0′s rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard ‘Buggery’ Spencer is case in point)
     
    They got Trump and Bannon into the White House, so that's something. As for Spencer, I don't remember hearing a word about him before that "Hail Trump" fiasco in the fall, so the movement is surely larger than his kind.

    They got Trump and Bannon into the White House

    Only in the imagination of Hillary Clinton. In reality, they cost the campaign more votes than they contributed. Likewise with the imaginary ‘Russia hacking’, which is used simply as a Democrat tactic to discredit the administration.

    • Replies: @Swedish Family

    Only in the imagination of Hillary Clinton. In reality, they cost the campaign more votes than they contributed. Likewise with the imaginary ‘Russia hacking’, which is used simply as a Democrat tactic to discredit the administration.
     
    If we speak of the alt-right in the narrow sense of the Charlottsville set, yes, but I'm among those who believe that the rise of the alternative/dissident right lead to Trump, and not the other way around. We also shouldn't underestimate the war effort from the alt-right twitterati, who did much to soften the blow from all the scandals.

    The Russiagate stuff is rubbish, of course. No disagreements there.
  19. @Dmitry

    They got Trump and Bannon into the White House
     
    Only in the imagination of Hillary Clinton. In reality, they cost the campaign more votes than they contributed. Likewise with the imaginary 'Russia hacking', which is used simply as a Democrat tactic to discredit the administration.

    Only in the imagination of Hillary Clinton. In reality, they cost the campaign more votes than they contributed. Likewise with the imaginary ‘Russia hacking’, which is used simply as a Democrat tactic to discredit the administration.

    If we speak of the alt-right in the narrow sense of the Charlottsville set, yes, but I’m among those who believe that the rise of the alternative/dissident right lead to Trump, and not the other way around. We also shouldn’t underestimate the war effort from the alt-right twitterati, who did much to soften the blow from all the scandals.

    The Russiagate stuff is rubbish, of course. No disagreements there.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    If we speak of the alt-right in the narrow sense of the Charlottsville set, yes, but I’m among those who believe that the rise of the alternative/dissident right lead to Trump, and not the other way around. We also shouldn’t underestimate the war effort from the alt-right twitterati, who did much to soften the blow from all the scandals.

    The Russiagate stuff is rubbish, of course. No disagreements there.
     

    Trump had all the most popular policies (in economics, foreign policy and border security) to win the swing-states in the United States, hence his victory.

    Hillary/CNN tried to use the tiny fraction of 'alt-right' (who in reality, are generally harmless NEETs/Hikikomori ) in order to discredit Trump. This 'scare-mongering' (along with the 'Russian hackers' conspiracy theory) was probably effective in taking away some independent voters, so it may have weakened (to the extent it was an effective strategy) Trump overall.

    The 'alt-right' itself is hardly aligned in terms of its ideology and policies with Trump - however, they enjoyed getting additional media exposure from CNN/Hillary et al, as CNN/Hillary was trying to use them to take down Trump. In this sense we can see symbiotic relationship between 'alt-right' and liberal group media like CNN et al.

  20. @Swedish Family

    Only in the imagination of Hillary Clinton. In reality, they cost the campaign more votes than they contributed. Likewise with the imaginary ‘Russia hacking’, which is used simply as a Democrat tactic to discredit the administration.
     
    If we speak of the alt-right in the narrow sense of the Charlottsville set, yes, but I'm among those who believe that the rise of the alternative/dissident right lead to Trump, and not the other way around. We also shouldn't underestimate the war effort from the alt-right twitterati, who did much to soften the blow from all the scandals.

    The Russiagate stuff is rubbish, of course. No disagreements there.

    If we speak of the alt-right in the narrow sense of the Charlottsville set, yes, but I’m among those who believe that the rise of the alternative/dissident right lead to Trump, and not the other way around. We also shouldn’t underestimate the war effort from the alt-right twitterati, who did much to soften the blow from all the scandals.

    The Russiagate stuff is rubbish, of course. No disagreements there.

    Trump had all the most popular policies (in economics, foreign policy and border security) to win the swing-states in the United States, hence his victory.

    Hillary/CNN tried to use the tiny fraction of ‘alt-right’ (who in reality, are generally harmless NEETs/Hikikomori ) in order to discredit Trump. This ‘scare-mongering’ (along with the ‘Russian hackers’ conspiracy theory) was probably effective in taking away some independent voters, so it may have weakened (to the extent it was an effective strategy) Trump overall.

    The ‘alt-right’ itself is hardly aligned in terms of its ideology and policies with Trump – however, they enjoyed getting additional media exposure from CNN/Hillary et al, as CNN/Hillary was trying to use them to take down Trump. In this sense we can see symbiotic relationship between ‘alt-right’ and liberal group media like CNN et al.

  21. @Pavlo
    IQ tests for all frog twitter denizens, image board NEETS and VNN dwellers are not necessary. The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0's rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard 'Buggery' Spencer is case in point), cringeworthy marches under slogans that are absolute goobledegook to the American public, and lack of any credible plan for gaining power. Such are the fruits of a movement of dim-witted malcontents quite content with irresponsible carping.

    Note that for all the evident idiocy of American blacks, they command far more political power than the alt-right is ever likely to.

    Think about why that is.

    A large portion of the alt-right is controlled opposition.

    Spencer probably so, judging by his actions, probably connected to Liberty Lobby, or CIA.
    the dailystormer apparently created by a Jewish guy, who went to Ukraine (I guess the Bandera types welcome him).
    White nationalism is so tiny and irrelevent in a country like US. They have massive divides.

    Even the Paleocon more moderate approach (which today wouldnt succeed at all),
    on immigration, would be called Trump-Nazi-Fascist by a large portion of Liberals, Business Cons, and Progressives.

    Alt-right will get no where, unless they get billionares, infiltrate organizations, more organization.
    Easy for the CIA to exploit.

    The memes, are only copied by the alt-lite and Trump types(bunch of libertarians, average conservative, and some homosexuals are fund in this group).

    The conservative CIA got a bunch of useful idiots to vote for Republicans,
    and the show continued.
    The liberal CIA does the same with getting the New-left and Progressvies to vote Democrat.

    Neocons create or infiltrate varies smaller movements to get votes from dissendents. They also suckered the Evangelicals and New Right to vote for them.
    Liberals do the same.

    Then the Alt-right fights on the internet with All three, getting little done.
    On the streets, an alt-right who does something, goes after the “alt-left” aka sjws, blm, feminists, homos. They fight.
    And the elites continue marching on.

    Alt-right is a so called movement, yet only a tiny amount Americans can be categorized this.
    All the Spencers, Vox Days, WN websites, combined make little or no difference.

    You dont have money, you dont have elites, or media.. Pretty much all movements are top down over the past 100 years. (The 1% march was controlled opposition by Rockekfeller and Soros types).

  22. @Pavlo
    IQ tests for all frog twitter denizens, image board NEETS and VNN dwellers are not necessary. The alt-right continues White Nationalism 1.0's rich tradition of failure with its very own inept and criminal leadership (Richard 'Buggery' Spencer is case in point), cringeworthy marches under slogans that are absolute goobledegook to the American public, and lack of any credible plan for gaining power. Such are the fruits of a movement of dim-witted malcontents quite content with irresponsible carping.

    Note that for all the evident idiocy of American blacks, they command far more political power than the alt-right is ever likely to.

    Think about why that is.

    This guy is absolutely right. I wouldn’t say the alt-right is stupid, but they have absolutely no idea how to wage a culture or political war. Pepe only takes you so far.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    They want to fight, and they get to fight(vicariously, through the internet, anyway). For all practical purposes, at least on an individual level, they're winning.

    I might write more on this from the perspective of Eric Hoffe's True Believer but fundamentally its notable to consider that at the end of the day, groups often may seem to act in contradictory or self-destructive ways, but they nonetheless provide a great deal of solidarity and satisfaction for the individuals within them.
  23. So the western world hates Trump more than the non-west. What explains Africa’s greenness?

  24. @Anonymous
    Look at the red of Japan. Those sneaky little buck-toothed bastards with their racist homogeneous country. We need to start putting the economic thumbscrews to the Nips until they start accepting refugees and third-world immigrants.

    Don’t be such a jealous little shit. Japan probably dislikes Trump because of his brash mannerisms, not his policies.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That was WWII propaganda talk I was using. Btw, the Japanese view of the Chinese is orders of magnitude more vicious.
    , @Nigerian Nationalist
    He's funny, says it like it is, isn't trying to force us to like gays, is cold on Muslims and our immigrants are annoyingly snot-nosed.

    One of the above or a combination of...
  25. @neutral

    Think about why that is.
     
    Are you that stupid, you don't don't think the endless fawning and billions thrown their way by the jews and their government has anything do with it. In fact the blacks in America have had more money thrown their way than any group in all of history, despite that the results are not exactly amazing.

    Sho massa, I is jus’ a humble nigga waitin’ fo mah forty acres an’ mule from dem vatnik crackas, but do you not realise what a poor answer it is to complain that the other team got more patronage than you did?

    Life is rarely ‘fair’, and politics is even less so – there’s no referee and no rules. Results are what matter, and the results of white nationalists’ and alt-rightists’ efforts are these: America is less white every year, people of quality overwhelmingly shun anything WN-connected* and the one alt-rightist who is a household name is this guy:

    Entryism of American institutions is the only path that could conceivably succeed, but, as Karlin might put it, the alt-right lacks the human capital to pull it off.

    *Time was white nationalists associated with the likes of Rear Admiral John Crommelin. Now they have Spencer – and Weev.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    what a poor answer it is to complain that the other team got more patronage than you did?
     
    Well, more patronage is the explanation why white advocates have less power than blacks. It has nothing to do with the IQs of the respective groups. This is the answer to your original point.

    Entryism of American institutions is the only path that could conceivably succeed, but, as Karlin might put it, the alt-right lacks the human capital to pull it off.
     
    We don’t know it much (the current climate is less free for an opposition movement than it was when the left marched through the institutions), but there’s anyway no time for it.
    , @Dmitry
    Richard Spencer's wife is Georgian (i.e. ethnic Georgian American citizen) - so he does not "practise what preaches" when it comes to the White/European Nationalism movement in the United States.
  26. @Pavlo
    Sho massa, I is jus' a humble nigga waitin' fo mah forty acres an' mule from dem vatnik crackas, but do you not realise what a poor answer it is to complain that the other team got more patronage than you did?

    Life is rarely 'fair', and politics is even less so - there's no referee and no rules. Results are what matter, and the results of white nationalists' and alt-rightists' efforts are these: America is less white every year, people of quality overwhelmingly shun anything WN-connected* and the one alt-rightist who is a household name is this guy:

    https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1492/31/1492312188812.jpg

    Entryism of American institutions is the only path that could conceivably succeed, but, as Karlin might put it, the alt-right lacks the human capital to pull it off.

    *Time was white nationalists associated with the likes of Rear Admiral John Crommelin. Now they have Spencer - and Weev.

    what a poor answer it is to complain that the other team got more patronage than you did?

    Well, more patronage is the explanation why white advocates have less power than blacks. It has nothing to do with the IQs of the respective groups. This is the answer to your original point.

    Entryism of American institutions is the only path that could conceivably succeed, but, as Karlin might put it, the alt-right lacks the human capital to pull it off.

    We don’t know it much (the current climate is less free for an opposition movement than it was when the left marched through the institutions), but there’s anyway no time for it.

  27. We don’t know it much (the current climate is less free for an opposition movement than it was when the left marched through the institutions), but there’s anyway no time for it.

    When the Sixties left began its Long March through the Institutions, the already existing ruling elites were remarkably accommodating. After all, their post-1945 system was based almost entirely on left-liberal premises. And the tame opposition Buckleyite right-liberalism was very weak tea-as Whittaker Chambers famously pointed out:
    http://socialpathology.blogspot.com/2016/06/francis-on-chambers.html

    Yet if Chambers rejected twentieth-century liberalism, he was not much more sympathetic to the conservatives of the 1950s. He declined to attach himself in any way to Joe McCarthy, less perhaps from dislike of the man than a belief that McCarthy would eventually taint his witness. He was not comfortable at National Review and found preposterous the quaint dogmas of classical liberalism dressed up as conservatism. In a letter to Buckley in 1957, he called the free-market economist Ludwig von Mises “a goose,” and Frank Meyer’s self-appointment as the ideological gatekeeper of the American Right seems first to have amused, then bored, him. The ideas of Meyer and Russell Kirk struck Chambers as “chiefly an irrelevant buzz.” Of Kirk’s The Conservative Mind he asked, “if you were a marine in a landing boat, would you wade up the seabeach at Tarawa for that conservative position? And neither would I!” Only with Buckley himself and James Burnham did he seem to share anything like a common outlook, and at last he resigned from National Review, acknowledging to Buckley and himself that he was not a conservative in any serious sense but “a man of the Right.”

  28. @Pavlo
    Sho massa, I is jus' a humble nigga waitin' fo mah forty acres an' mule from dem vatnik crackas, but do you not realise what a poor answer it is to complain that the other team got more patronage than you did?

    Life is rarely 'fair', and politics is even less so - there's no referee and no rules. Results are what matter, and the results of white nationalists' and alt-rightists' efforts are these: America is less white every year, people of quality overwhelmingly shun anything WN-connected* and the one alt-rightist who is a household name is this guy:

    https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1492/31/1492312188812.jpg

    Entryism of American institutions is the only path that could conceivably succeed, but, as Karlin might put it, the alt-right lacks the human capital to pull it off.

    *Time was white nationalists associated with the likes of Rear Admiral John Crommelin. Now they have Spencer - and Weev.

    Richard Spencer’s wife is Georgian (i.e. ethnic Georgian American citizen) – so he does not “practise what preaches” when it comes to the White/European Nationalism movement in the United States.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Not that there is anything wrong with marrying Georgians (there is not at all - and especially if she knows how to cook Georgian cuisine). But I thought half the point of the 'alt-right' movement was supposed to be against marrying different ethnic groups.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Just a quick note that Spencer's wife is half-Georgian, half-Russian.
    , @Pavlo
    Nathan Damigo is Georgian?
  29. @Dmitry
    Richard Spencer's wife is Georgian (i.e. ethnic Georgian American citizen) - so he does not "practise what preaches" when it comes to the White/European Nationalism movement in the United States.

    Not that there is anything wrong with marrying Georgians (there is not at all – and especially if she knows how to cook Georgian cuisine). But I thought half the point of the ‘alt-right’ movement was supposed to be against marrying different ethnic groups.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    But they are literally Caucasians.
    , @German_reader

    But I thought half the point of the ‘alt-right’ movement was supposed to be against marrying different ethnic groups.
     
    I think the alt-right is more about pan-white identity, and the Christian peoples of the Caucasus are probably considered as white by most alt-rightish people (and Americans still use the term "Caucasians" for whites after all). Given how many white Americans are of mixed ancestry (sometimes with some fraction of black or Amerindian ancestry mixed in), distinctions between different European ethnicities probably wouldn't make much sense anyway.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Not at all. Like many and probably most alt-right people, my heritage is from a number of different white European ethnic groups.
  30. @Dmitry
    Not that there is anything wrong with marrying Georgians (there is not at all - and especially if she knows how to cook Georgian cuisine). But I thought half the point of the 'alt-right' movement was supposed to be against marrying different ethnic groups.

    But they are literally Caucasians.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    But they are literally Caucasians.
     
    But I don't think their (the American far-right) concept of the 'white/European only state' is envisaged as a Caucasian populated one.

    Although maybe in some comic scene - they wake up with Caucasians everywhere , and start freaking out like the girl:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CUtnisqjFY

  31. @Dmitry
    Not that there is anything wrong with marrying Georgians (there is not at all - and especially if she knows how to cook Georgian cuisine). But I thought half the point of the 'alt-right' movement was supposed to be against marrying different ethnic groups.

    But I thought half the point of the ‘alt-right’ movement was supposed to be against marrying different ethnic groups.

    I think the alt-right is more about pan-white identity, and the Christian peoples of the Caucasus are probably considered as white by most alt-rightish people (and Americans still use the term “Caucasians” for whites after all). Given how many white Americans are of mixed ancestry (sometimes with some fraction of black or Amerindian ancestry mixed in), distinctions between different European ethnicities probably wouldn’t make much sense anyway.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    I think the alt-right is more about pan-white identity, and the Christian peoples of the Caucasus are probably considered as white by most alt-rightish people (and Americans still use the term “Caucasians” for whites after all). Given how many white Americans are of mixed ancestry (sometimes with some fraction of black or Amerindian ancestry mixed in), distinctions between different European ethnicities probably wouldn’t make much sense anyway.


     

    All respect to the Georgians, which have many very beautiful women who I would gladly marry (although his wife is not one of those).

    But Georgians are mixed people - having been on holiday in Georgia, and having Georgian friends - I know in some rough proportion that 25% of Georgians look Russian, and 75% look like Armenians/Azeris/Iranians/Turkish.

    His wife seems more towards the latter than former.

    -

    Of course, all this is bizarre nonsense, and there is nothing wrong (in a million years) in marrying a Georgian woman.

    But in terms of the leader of the 'Alt-right' - that claims that he wants a white/European only state? It is not practising what he preaches.

    , @RadicalCenter
    Good point, with the quibble that most white Americans have ZERO African genetic contribution (sub-Saharan or otherwise) and zero Amerindian genes either.

    All the anecdotes about so-and-so's super-white friend from Oklahoma who is 1/32 Crow or Chickasaw, or some very white person's great-grandfather in North Dakota who was part Sioux, etc., can lead people to conclude that most white Americans have Amerindian genes to some small degree. We don't.

  32. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Anonymous
    Look at the red of Japan. Those sneaky little buck-toothed bastards with their racist homogeneous country. We need to start putting the economic thumbscrews to the Nips until they start accepting refugees and third-world immigrants.

    Anon from TN
    Japanese are defending their country as it is, and that’s their right. Visit Japan: it’s not a bad country at all, although it is much poorer than its government and the US would like you to think (everything is overpriced, like in Switzerland, without Swiss pay levels). Your advice would have them commit suicide like Western Europe, and then cry over spilled milk. Some countries, like Sweden, UK, France, and possibly Germany are already beyond salvage. Japan and South Korea still remain what they are, and I applaud that. I don’t want the whole world to look like Dakar or the slums of Nairobi.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    I’m curious: have you spent time in urban Japan? Rural Japan? I’ve spent a little time in urban and suburban Japan. It seemed to me to be incredibly wealthy in public goods, although I don’t know anything about personal wealth in Japan. As for the expense of living, I found food and temporary accommodation quite affordable, even on a modest per diem provided by the Russian institution for which I work. As for buying a flat, again, I have no idea.
  33. @German_reader

    But I thought half the point of the ‘alt-right’ movement was supposed to be against marrying different ethnic groups.
     
    I think the alt-right is more about pan-white identity, and the Christian peoples of the Caucasus are probably considered as white by most alt-rightish people (and Americans still use the term "Caucasians" for whites after all). Given how many white Americans are of mixed ancestry (sometimes with some fraction of black or Amerindian ancestry mixed in), distinctions between different European ethnicities probably wouldn't make much sense anyway.

    I think the alt-right is more about pan-white identity, and the Christian peoples of the Caucasus are probably considered as white by most alt-rightish people (and Americans still use the term “Caucasians” for whites after all). Given how many white Americans are of mixed ancestry (sometimes with some fraction of black or Amerindian ancestry mixed in), distinctions between different European ethnicities probably wouldn’t make much sense anyway.

    All respect to the Georgians, which have many very beautiful women who I would gladly marry (although his wife is not one of those).

    But Georgians are mixed people – having been on holiday in Georgia, and having Georgian friends – I know in some rough proportion that 25% of Georgians look Russian, and 75% look like Armenians/Azeris/Iranians/Turkish.

    His wife seems more towards the latter than former.

    Of course, all this is bizarre nonsense, and there is nothing wrong (in a million years) in marrying a Georgian woman.

    But in terms of the leader of the ‘Alt-right’ – that claims that he wants a white/European only state? It is not practising what he preaches.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    I know in some rough proportion that 25% of Georgians look Russian, and 75% look like Armenians/Azeris/Iranians/Turkish
     
    Well, even a lot of Turks and Iranians don't really look "non-white" (unless you're some Nordicist and think that Southern Italians for instance aren't white), with some even being relatively fair-skinned. It's more of a culture/religion thing with them than a clear-cut race issue like with whites and blacks in the US.
    As far as I understand it, Armenians, and to some degree even Arab Christians, have long been regarded in the US as a somewhat more exotic kind of "white", so I don't think Spencer's marriage necessarily contradicts his political views.
  34. @Mitleser
    But they are literally Caucasians.

    But they are literally Caucasians.

    But I don’t think their (the American far-right) concept of the ‘white/European only state’ is envisaged as a Caucasian populated one.

    Although maybe in some comic scene – they wake up with Caucasians everywhere , and start freaking out like the girl:

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    But I don’t think their (the American far-right) concept of the ‘white/European only state’ is envisaged as a Caucasian populated one.
     
    Then they should not have used Caucasian as another term for whites.
    , @neutral

    But I don’t think their (the American far-right) concept of the ‘white/European only state’ is envisaged as a Caucasian populated one.
     
    Are those an example of the "Vitniks" (Russian Rednecks) that have been mentioned here before?

    As for the question if Caucasians are white, it is a difficult one as the racial transition from white to non white features is a gradual one as one goes more south, I once met a Georgian girl that looked northern European.I would say that as a white nationalist the boundary should be from Gibraltar, the Bosporus, Urals, and Caucasus to be labeled as white.
  35. @Dmitry

    I think the alt-right is more about pan-white identity, and the Christian peoples of the Caucasus are probably considered as white by most alt-rightish people (and Americans still use the term “Caucasians” for whites after all). Given how many white Americans are of mixed ancestry (sometimes with some fraction of black or Amerindian ancestry mixed in), distinctions between different European ethnicities probably wouldn’t make much sense anyway.


     

    All respect to the Georgians, which have many very beautiful women who I would gladly marry (although his wife is not one of those).

    But Georgians are mixed people - having been on holiday in Georgia, and having Georgian friends - I know in some rough proportion that 25% of Georgians look Russian, and 75% look like Armenians/Azeris/Iranians/Turkish.

    His wife seems more towards the latter than former.

    -

    Of course, all this is bizarre nonsense, and there is nothing wrong (in a million years) in marrying a Georgian woman.

    But in terms of the leader of the 'Alt-right' - that claims that he wants a white/European only state? It is not practising what he preaches.

    I know in some rough proportion that 25% of Georgians look Russian, and 75% look like Armenians/Azeris/Iranians/Turkish

    Well, even a lot of Turks and Iranians don’t really look “non-white” (unless you’re some Nordicist and think that Southern Italians for instance aren’t white), with some even being relatively fair-skinned. It’s more of a culture/religion thing with them than a clear-cut race issue like with whites and blacks in the US.
    As far as I understand it, Armenians, and to some degree even Arab Christians, have long been regarded in the US as a somewhat more exotic kind of “white”, so I don’t think Spencer’s marriage necessarily contradicts his political views.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Well, even a lot of Turks and Iranians don’t really look “non-white” (unless you’re some Nordicist and think that Southern Italians for instance aren’t white), with some even being relatively fair-skinned. It’s more of a culture/religion thing with them than a clear-cut race issue like with whites
     
    Sure, of course.

    But I don't think this is what American far-right want.

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general, and the far-right in America have the same kind of racist views towards it).

  36. @Jason Liu
    Don't be such a jealous little shit. Japan probably dislikes Trump because of his brash mannerisms, not his policies.

    That was WWII propaganda talk I was using. Btw, the Japanese view of the Chinese is orders of magnitude more vicious.

  37. @German_reader

    I know in some rough proportion that 25% of Georgians look Russian, and 75% look like Armenians/Azeris/Iranians/Turkish
     
    Well, even a lot of Turks and Iranians don't really look "non-white" (unless you're some Nordicist and think that Southern Italians for instance aren't white), with some even being relatively fair-skinned. It's more of a culture/religion thing with them than a clear-cut race issue like with whites and blacks in the US.
    As far as I understand it, Armenians, and to some degree even Arab Christians, have long been regarded in the US as a somewhat more exotic kind of "white", so I don't think Spencer's marriage necessarily contradicts his political views.

    Well, even a lot of Turks and Iranians don’t really look “non-white” (unless you’re some Nordicist and think that Southern Italians for instance aren’t white), with some even being relatively fair-skinned. It’s more of a culture/religion thing with them than a clear-cut race issue like with whites

    Sure, of course.

    But I don’t think this is what American far-right want.

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general, and the far-right in America have the same kind of racist views towards it).

    • Replies: @German_reader

    But I don’t think this is what American far-right want.
     
    Well, it's not really a totally coherent movement anyway, as far as I can tell. Parts of it could be called neo-Nazis with some justification, others are less extreme.

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general).
     
    I don't think the comparison really works, unless I'm mistaken Hispanic immigration to the US has been of an entirely different magnitude than immigration of Caucasians to Russia could ever be, isn't one fifth of Americans already Hispanic? Central Asia might potentially be a better comparison if Russians are dumb enough to allow mass immigration from there (though in some ways that would probably be worse, at least with Mexicans in the US there isn't the Islam issue).
    , @Sean

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general).
     
    They are two separate countries, that is why there is a internationally recognized right to leave one's own country but there is no right to enter (let alone settle in) a country not your own. No country on earth does or ever has allowed such an open door. And if everyone on earth was north European, there would still be nation states, wars and no right to go into another people's country and make your home there.
    , @Jaakko Raipala
    As far as race is concerned, it's not equivalent. Much of South America is mestizo with a significant Amerindian component. Georgians are pure Caucasoids and genetically much closer to Russians than the typical Mexican immigrant is to the typical white American.

    Europeans have common misconceptions about the the racial composition of South America because their elites and TV stars tend to be very European but those elite descendants of conquistadors are mostly not the people that are now moving to America. Even within the Amerindian populations there seems to be a north/south gradient of IQ and r/K-selection and the people that are now making a mass migration to America have much of their ancestors from tropical regions where selection pressures resemble those that in the Old World are found in Africa or southernmost Asia.

    You appear to have bought some strawman that these American racists are just obsessed with skin or eye pigmentation. There is a good reason to expect significant genetic differences beyond just skin pigmentation between white Americans and mestizos, much more so than between Russians and Georgians. (Of course, there is a gap there so it's still possible that there are biological behavior differences between Russians and Caucasus peoples, but the gap there is much smaller so it's not analogous.)

    , @RadicalCenter
    I don't think you've met enough Mexicans.

    And by the way, here in the USA many of us would gladly trade millions of Mexicans for Armenians or Georgians.
  38. @Dmitry

    Well, even a lot of Turks and Iranians don’t really look “non-white” (unless you’re some Nordicist and think that Southern Italians for instance aren’t white), with some even being relatively fair-skinned. It’s more of a culture/religion thing with them than a clear-cut race issue like with whites
     
    Sure, of course.

    But I don't think this is what American far-right want.

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general, and the far-right in America have the same kind of racist views towards it).

    But I don’t think this is what American far-right want.

    Well, it’s not really a totally coherent movement anyway, as far as I can tell. Parts of it could be called neo-Nazis with some justification, others are less extreme.

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general).

    I don’t think the comparison really works, unless I’m mistaken Hispanic immigration to the US has been of an entirely different magnitude than immigration of Caucasians to Russia could ever be, isn’t one fifth of Americans already Hispanic? Central Asia might potentially be a better comparison if Russians are dumb enough to allow mass immigration from there (though in some ways that would probably be worse, at least with Mexicans in the US there isn’t the Islam issue).

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    I don’t think the comparison really works, unless I’m mistaken Hispanic immigration to the US has been of an entirely different magnitude than immigration of Caucasians to Russia could ever be, isn’t one fifth of Americans already Hispanic?
     
    The population is not as large - but the political dynamic is almost identical.

    The immigrants are going North in both cases for higher-wages. And there is the same ethnic/racial tension from some quarters.

    If Ann Coulter was a Muscovite, instead of a New Yorker - this migrant flow situation would be her issue.


    Central Asia might potentially be a better comparison if Russians are dumb enough to allow mass immigration from there (though in some ways that would probably be worse, at least with Mexicans in the US there isn’t the Islam issue).
     
    This has already occurred in relation to the Central Asian 'stans'. Although unlike the United States, there is more sharp movements backwards (when the economy is not doing well) and forwards (when the economy is doing well) - so the immigration may have a more temporary nature to it in comparison to the United States. (This is bearing in mind that the United States has such an insanely high standard of living, so immigrants who arrive there have a predisposition to staying in the US permanently, and do not suddenly flow back home when the economy has a downturn).
  39. @Dmitry

    Well, even a lot of Turks and Iranians don’t really look “non-white” (unless you’re some Nordicist and think that Southern Italians for instance aren’t white), with some even being relatively fair-skinned. It’s more of a culture/religion thing with them than a clear-cut race issue like with whites
     
    Sure, of course.

    But I don't think this is what American far-right want.

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general, and the far-right in America have the same kind of racist views towards it).

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general).

    They are two separate countries, that is why there is a internationally recognized right to leave one’s own country but there is no right to enter (let alone settle in) a country not your own. No country on earth does or ever has allowed such an open door. And if everyone on earth was north European, there would still be nation states, wars and no right to go into another people’s country and make your home there.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    They are two separate countries, that is why there is a internationally recognized right to leave one’s own country but there is no right to enter (let alone settle in) a country not your own. No country on earth does or ever has allowed such an open door. And if everyone on earth was north European, there would still be nation states, wars and no right to go into another people’s country and make your home there.
     
    Well - places like Georgia and Armenia are also separate countries since 1991. As are the Central Asian Republics. The migration situation is quite analogous to the one between the United States and Mexico.

    And indeed, I agree that filtering of migrants should be a lot more than it is in both cases.

  40. @German_reader

    But I don’t think this is what American far-right want.
     
    Well, it's not really a totally coherent movement anyway, as far as I can tell. Parts of it could be called neo-Nazis with some justification, others are less extreme.

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general).
     
    I don't think the comparison really works, unless I'm mistaken Hispanic immigration to the US has been of an entirely different magnitude than immigration of Caucasians to Russia could ever be, isn't one fifth of Americans already Hispanic? Central Asia might potentially be a better comparison if Russians are dumb enough to allow mass immigration from there (though in some ways that would probably be worse, at least with Mexicans in the US there isn't the Islam issue).

    I don’t think the comparison really works, unless I’m mistaken Hispanic immigration to the US has been of an entirely different magnitude than immigration of Caucasians to Russia could ever be, isn’t one fifth of Americans already Hispanic?

    The population is not as large – but the political dynamic is almost identical.

    The immigrants are going North in both cases for higher-wages. And there is the same ethnic/racial tension from some quarters.

    If Ann Coulter was a Muscovite, instead of a New Yorker – this migrant flow situation would be her issue.

    Central Asia might potentially be a better comparison if Russians are dumb enough to allow mass immigration from there (though in some ways that would probably be worse, at least with Mexicans in the US there isn’t the Islam issue).

    This has already occurred in relation to the Central Asian ‘stans’. Although unlike the United States, there is more sharp movements backwards (when the economy is not doing well) and forwards (when the economy is doing well) – so the immigration may have a more temporary nature to it in comparison to the United States. (This is bearing in mind that the United States has such an insanely high standard of living, so immigrants who arrive there have a predisposition to staying in the US permanently, and do not suddenly flow back home when the economy has a downturn).

  41. OT but interesting:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42804202

    German far-right AfD politician converts to Islam

    A member of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, known for its anti-Muslim rhetoric, has surprised observers by converting to Islam.

    Arthur Wagner sat on the party’s executive committee in the state of Brandenburg but recently stepped down for reasons he says are unrelated.

    The 48-year-old, who is still a member of the party, told one newspaper that it was a “private matter”.

    On its website, the AfD proclaims that “Islam does not belong in Germany”.

    …..

    German AfD MPs under fire for anti-Muslim messages

    But a spokesman for the party in Brandenburg has insisted that Mr Wagner’s conversion is “no problem” for the party.

    “Religion is a private matter. We support the constitutional right of religious freedom,” Daniel Friese was quoted as saying.

    Mr Wagner, who is of Russian origin, previously belonged to German chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party.

    ::::::::::::::::::

    Is he a Volga German whose parents or grandparents had been sent to Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan under Stalin?

    Reminds me of Christian extremist politicans who are found in restrooms with men.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Is he a Volga German whose parents or grandparents had been sent to Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan under Stalin?
     
    In this article
    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/das-afd-mitglied-arthur-wagner-konvertiert-zum-islam-15414650.html
    he's called a Russlanddeutscher, so yes, looks like a Volga German.
    Reportedly he also worked as a translator for Chechen "refugees". Weird.
    , @neutral
    These kind things sometimes happened in the British empire (and I assume the others as well), somebody "went native" and renounced his original roots. The only difference now is that whites are going "native" in what used to be their own lands not too long ago.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GspKQrTbh-A

    In a less shitposting way: if my "TradRight" party just picked a lesbian leader, I think I would also get pretty annoyed with it.
  42. @Sean

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general).
     
    They are two separate countries, that is why there is a internationally recognized right to leave one's own country but there is no right to enter (let alone settle in) a country not your own. No country on earth does or ever has allowed such an open door. And if everyone on earth was north European, there would still be nation states, wars and no right to go into another people's country and make your home there.

    They are two separate countries, that is why there is a internationally recognized right to leave one’s own country but there is no right to enter (let alone settle in) a country not your own. No country on earth does or ever has allowed such an open door. And if everyone on earth was north European, there would still be nation states, wars and no right to go into another people’s country and make your home there.

    Well – places like Georgia and Armenia are also separate countries since 1991. As are the Central Asian Republics. The migration situation is quite analogous to the one between the United States and Mexico.

    And indeed, I agree that filtering of migrants should be a lot more than it is in both cases.

  43. @Dmitry

    But they are literally Caucasians.
     
    But I don't think their (the American far-right) concept of the 'white/European only state' is envisaged as a Caucasian populated one.

    Although maybe in some comic scene - they wake up with Caucasians everywhere , and start freaking out like the girl:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CUtnisqjFY

    But I don’t think their (the American far-right) concept of the ‘white/European only state’ is envisaged as a Caucasian populated one.

    Then they should not have used Caucasian as another term for whites.

  44. @AP
    OT but interesting:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42804202

    German far-right AfD politician converts to Islam

    A member of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, known for its anti-Muslim rhetoric, has surprised observers by converting to Islam.

    Arthur Wagner sat on the party's executive committee in the state of Brandenburg but recently stepped down for reasons he says are unrelated.

    The 48-year-old, who is still a member of the party, told one newspaper that it was a "private matter".

    On its website, the AfD proclaims that "Islam does not belong in Germany".

    .....

    German AfD MPs under fire for anti-Muslim messages

    But a spokesman for the party in Brandenburg has insisted that Mr Wagner's conversion is "no problem" for the party.

    "Religion is a private matter. We support the constitutional right of religious freedom," Daniel Friese was quoted as saying.

    Mr Wagner, who is of Russian origin, previously belonged to German chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party.

    ::::::::::::::::::

    Is he a Volga German whose parents or grandparents had been sent to Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan under Stalin?

    Reminds me of Christian extremist politicans who are found in restrooms with men.

    Is he a Volga German whose parents or grandparents had been sent to Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan under Stalin?

    In this article
    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/das-afd-mitglied-arthur-wagner-konvertiert-zum-islam-15414650.html
    he’s called a Russlanddeutscher, so yes, looks like a Volga German.
    Reportedly he also worked as a translator for Chechen “refugees”. Weird.

  45. @AP
    OT but interesting:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42804202

    German far-right AfD politician converts to Islam

    A member of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, known for its anti-Muslim rhetoric, has surprised observers by converting to Islam.

    Arthur Wagner sat on the party's executive committee in the state of Brandenburg but recently stepped down for reasons he says are unrelated.

    The 48-year-old, who is still a member of the party, told one newspaper that it was a "private matter".

    On its website, the AfD proclaims that "Islam does not belong in Germany".

    .....

    German AfD MPs under fire for anti-Muslim messages

    But a spokesman for the party in Brandenburg has insisted that Mr Wagner's conversion is "no problem" for the party.

    "Religion is a private matter. We support the constitutional right of religious freedom," Daniel Friese was quoted as saying.

    Mr Wagner, who is of Russian origin, previously belonged to German chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party.

    ::::::::::::::::::

    Is he a Volga German whose parents or grandparents had been sent to Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan under Stalin?

    Reminds me of Christian extremist politicans who are found in restrooms with men.

    These kind things sometimes happened in the British empire (and I assume the others as well), somebody “went native” and renounced his original roots. The only difference now is that whites are going “native” in what used to be their own lands not too long ago.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    These kind things sometimes happened in the British empire (and I assume the others as well), somebody “went native” and renounced his original roots. The only difference now is that whites are going “native” in what used to be their own lands not too long ago.

     

    He was a Russian immigrant who repatriated to Germany (surely due to having Volga German ancestry, as other commentators mention above).

    Germany operates a Law of Return, (the same as Israel does for people with Jewish ancestry) - for people of Volga German ancestry.

    It wasn't generally reported as an easy repatriation/immigration for many of them - basically all the same issues that Russian-speaking Jews had immigrating to Germany/Israel in the 1990s.

    In Israel, there have been similar cases of repatriating citizens, converting to Islam - and in one case trying to join ISIS in Syria:
    https://www.vesty.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4929214,00.html

  46. @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    Japanese are defending their country as it is, and that’s their right. Visit Japan: it’s not a bad country at all, although it is much poorer than its government and the US would like you to think (everything is overpriced, like in Switzerland, without Swiss pay levels). Your advice would have them commit suicide like Western Europe, and then cry over spilled milk. Some countries, like Sweden, UK, France, and possibly Germany are already beyond salvage. Japan and South Korea still remain what they are, and I applaud that. I don’t want the whole world to look like Dakar or the slums of Nairobi.

    I’m curious: have you spent time in urban Japan? Rural Japan? I’ve spent a little time in urban and suburban Japan. It seemed to me to be incredibly wealthy in public goods, although I don’t know anything about personal wealth in Japan. As for the expense of living, I found food and temporary accommodation quite affordable, even on a modest per diem provided by the Russian institution for which I work. As for buying a flat, again, I have no idea.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN.
    I was in Japan for about three weeks as a tourist. Mostly in cities: Tokyo, Matsumoto, Hiroshima, Kyoto, etc. Several things struck me. First, many places in the country are beautiful, although profusion of above-ground wires and cables often spoils the view in cities. Second, they sell single tomatoes, persimmons, etc, both in the markets and supermarkets, and these are priced at $3-5 apiece. Only rice is much cheaper, but I can’t eat as much of it as most Japanese do. Third, very few Japanese women have any jewelry on them, suggesting that they don’t have money to spare (all females of our species love baubles). Fourth, Japanese are amazingly disciplined, they never cross the road when the streetlight is red (as people do in the US, Russia, and Europe, even in Switzerland), and express their disapproval when you do that. Fifth, their high-speed shinkansen trains are amazingly good and always on time (like trains in Switzerland), but there are marks on platforms where you have to line up for different types of trains, and Japanese line up exactly on those marks. Overall, I liked Japan and I don’t want it to become something different, be it “anywhere USA” or “Dakar”.
  47. @Dmitry

    But they are literally Caucasians.
     
    But I don't think their (the American far-right) concept of the 'white/European only state' is envisaged as a Caucasian populated one.

    Although maybe in some comic scene - they wake up with Caucasians everywhere , and start freaking out like the girl:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CUtnisqjFY

    But I don’t think their (the American far-right) concept of the ‘white/European only state’ is envisaged as a Caucasian populated one.

    Are those an example of the “Vitniks” (Russian Rednecks) that have been mentioned here before?

    As for the question if Caucasians are white, it is a difficult one as the racial transition from white to non white features is a gradual one as one goes more south, I once met a Georgian girl that looked northern European.I would say that as a white nationalist the boundary should be from Gibraltar, the Bosporus, Urals, and Caucasus to be labeled as white.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Are those an example of the “Vitniks” (Russian Rednecks) that have been mentioned here before?

    As for the question if Caucasians are white, it is a difficult one as the racial transition from white to non white features is a gradual one as one goes more south, I once met a Georgian girl that looked northern European.I would say that as a white nationalist the boundary should be from Gibraltar, the Bosporus, Urals, and Caucasus to be labeled as white.
     

    Yes Georgians are quite mixed appearing people - it's not a homogeneous looking people. A proportion (of native Georgians) look just like Russians and somewhat larger proportion are similar to Armenians/Azeris/Iranians.

    They have their own very unique culture and history (and one of the coolest alphabets in the world). I doubt most of them would want to be grouped with some random populations in other parts of the world, just because they have the same ratio of brunettes to blondes. And for us outsiders, neither is such categorization very informative.

    -

    The issue which is funny, is that Richard Spencer (the leader of the far-right in the United States) would have a wife with origins from the Caucasus. It's not like you have to be a Russian nationalist (I myself am quite liberal and have a 1/4 mixed nationality ancestry in my own family tree) to find his own mixed marriage to be amusing. The parallel situation would be if the leader of the Russian nationalist movement married a woman from Mexico.

  48. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:

    Anon from TN
    Funny, how many words are wasted on a change from virtually nothing to 8%. Basically, the approval of the US leadership in Russia was minuscule, and remains so.
    Also, for those who see this uptick as an increase: did you ever consider the possibility that Russians simply approve of the suicide of the Empire? The US foreign policy was suicidal ever since “WMD” hoax and Iraq war, and this is becoming increasingly obvious to everyone, including Russians.

  49. @neutral

    But I don’t think their (the American far-right) concept of the ‘white/European only state’ is envisaged as a Caucasian populated one.
     
    Are those an example of the "Vitniks" (Russian Rednecks) that have been mentioned here before?

    As for the question if Caucasians are white, it is a difficult one as the racial transition from white to non white features is a gradual one as one goes more south, I once met a Georgian girl that looked northern European.I would say that as a white nationalist the boundary should be from Gibraltar, the Bosporus, Urals, and Caucasus to be labeled as white.

    Are those an example of the “Vitniks” (Russian Rednecks) that have been mentioned here before?

    As for the question if Caucasians are white, it is a difficult one as the racial transition from white to non white features is a gradual one as one goes more south, I once met a Georgian girl that looked northern European.I would say that as a white nationalist the boundary should be from Gibraltar, the Bosporus, Urals, and Caucasus to be labeled as white.

    Yes Georgians are quite mixed appearing people – it’s not a homogeneous looking people. A proportion (of native Georgians) look just like Russians and somewhat larger proportion are similar to Armenians/Azeris/Iranians.

    They have their own very unique culture and history (and one of the coolest alphabets in the world). I doubt most of them would want to be grouped with some random populations in other parts of the world, just because they have the same ratio of brunettes to blondes. And for us outsiders, neither is such categorization very informative.

    The issue which is funny, is that Richard Spencer (the leader of the far-right in the United States) would have a wife with origins from the Caucasus. It’s not like you have to be a Russian nationalist (I myself am quite liberal and have a 1/4 mixed nationality ancestry in my own family tree) to find his own mixed marriage to be amusing. The parallel situation would be if the leader of the Russian nationalist movement married a woman from Mexico.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    They have their own very unique culture and history (and one of the coolest alphabets in the world).
     
    I had Georgian ajika the other day, which highly resembled Mexican salsa, but it wasn't very spicy. :(

    Then again, being that I was at Russian restaurant, it might not have been prepared authentically.

  50. @Jason Liu
    This guy is absolutely right. I wouldn't say the alt-right is stupid, but they have absolutely no idea how to wage a culture or political war. Pepe only takes you so far.

    They want to fight, and they get to fight(vicariously, through the internet, anyway). For all practical purposes, at least on an individual level, they’re winning.

    I might write more on this from the perspective of Eric Hoffe’s True Believer but fundamentally its notable to consider that at the end of the day, groups often may seem to act in contradictory or self-destructive ways, but they nonetheless provide a great deal of solidarity and satisfaction for the individuals within them.

  51. @Dmitry

    Are those an example of the “Vitniks” (Russian Rednecks) that have been mentioned here before?

    As for the question if Caucasians are white, it is a difficult one as the racial transition from white to non white features is a gradual one as one goes more south, I once met a Georgian girl that looked northern European.I would say that as a white nationalist the boundary should be from Gibraltar, the Bosporus, Urals, and Caucasus to be labeled as white.
     

    Yes Georgians are quite mixed appearing people - it's not a homogeneous looking people. A proportion (of native Georgians) look just like Russians and somewhat larger proportion are similar to Armenians/Azeris/Iranians.

    They have their own very unique culture and history (and one of the coolest alphabets in the world). I doubt most of them would want to be grouped with some random populations in other parts of the world, just because they have the same ratio of brunettes to blondes. And for us outsiders, neither is such categorization very informative.

    -

    The issue which is funny, is that Richard Spencer (the leader of the far-right in the United States) would have a wife with origins from the Caucasus. It's not like you have to be a Russian nationalist (I myself am quite liberal and have a 1/4 mixed nationality ancestry in my own family tree) to find his own mixed marriage to be amusing. The parallel situation would be if the leader of the Russian nationalist movement married a woman from Mexico.

    They have their own very unique culture and history (and one of the coolest alphabets in the world).

    I had Georgian ajika the other day, which highly resembled Mexican salsa, but it wasn’t very spicy. 🙁

    Then again, being that I was at Russian restaurant, it might not have been prepared authentically.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    1. If you're looking for spicy food you're not going to find it in the ex-USSR unless you demand it (and even then it isn't a sure thing).

    2. Adjika is a saltier, worse version of salsa, regardless of who makes it.
  52. @neutral
    These kind things sometimes happened in the British empire (and I assume the others as well), somebody "went native" and renounced his original roots. The only difference now is that whites are going "native" in what used to be their own lands not too long ago.

    These kind things sometimes happened in the British empire (and I assume the others as well), somebody “went native” and renounced his original roots. The only difference now is that whites are going “native” in what used to be their own lands not too long ago.

    He was a Russian immigrant who repatriated to Germany (surely due to having Volga German ancestry, as other commentators mention above).

    Germany operates a Law of Return, (the same as Israel does for people with Jewish ancestry) – for people of Volga German ancestry.

    It wasn’t generally reported as an easy repatriation/immigration for many of them – basically all the same issues that Russian-speaking Jews had immigrating to Germany/Israel in the 1990s.

    In Israel, there have been similar cases of repatriating citizens, converting to Islam – and in one case trying to join ISIS in Syria:
    https://www.vesty.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4929214,00.html

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    He was a Russian immigrant who repatriated to Germany (surely due to having Volga German ancestry, as other commentators mention above).
     
    Not surely.
    There were German colonies in many parts of the Russian Empire.
    The Volga area is just the most famous.

    http://ome-lexikon.uni-oldenburg.de/fileadmin/user_upload/omelexikon/download/grosse_bilder/Russland/Deutsche_Auswanderung_gross.jpg
  53. @Daniel Chieh

    They have their own very unique culture and history (and one of the coolest alphabets in the world).
     
    I had Georgian ajika the other day, which highly resembled Mexican salsa, but it wasn't very spicy. :(

    Then again, being that I was at Russian restaurant, it might not have been prepared authentically.

    1. If you’re looking for spicy food you’re not going to find it in the ex-USSR unless you demand it (and even then it isn’t a sure thing).

    2. Adjika is a saltier, worse version of salsa, regardless of who makes it.

  54. @Dmitry
    Richard Spencer's wife is Georgian (i.e. ethnic Georgian American citizen) - so he does not "practise what preaches" when it comes to the White/European Nationalism movement in the United States.

    Just a quick note that Spencer’s wife is half-Georgian, half-Russian.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Quarter Georgian, three-quarters Russian.
  55. @Dmitry
    Not that there is anything wrong with marrying Georgians (there is not at all - and especially if she knows how to cook Georgian cuisine). But I thought half the point of the 'alt-right' movement was supposed to be against marrying different ethnic groups.

    Not at all. Like many and probably most alt-right people, my heritage is from a number of different white European ethnic groups.

  56. @AP
    OT but interesting:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42804202

    German far-right AfD politician converts to Islam

    A member of the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, known for its anti-Muslim rhetoric, has surprised observers by converting to Islam.

    Arthur Wagner sat on the party's executive committee in the state of Brandenburg but recently stepped down for reasons he says are unrelated.

    The 48-year-old, who is still a member of the party, told one newspaper that it was a "private matter".

    On its website, the AfD proclaims that "Islam does not belong in Germany".

    .....

    German AfD MPs under fire for anti-Muslim messages

    But a spokesman for the party in Brandenburg has insisted that Mr Wagner's conversion is "no problem" for the party.

    "Religion is a private matter. We support the constitutional right of religious freedom," Daniel Friese was quoted as saying.

    Mr Wagner, who is of Russian origin, previously belonged to German chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party.

    ::::::::::::::::::

    Is he a Volga German whose parents or grandparents had been sent to Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan under Stalin?

    Reminds me of Christian extremist politicans who are found in restrooms with men.

    In a less shitposting way: if my “TradRight” party just picked a lesbian leader, I think I would also get pretty annoyed with it.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    AfD is not TradRight, it is just Right,
  57. @German_reader

    But I thought half the point of the ‘alt-right’ movement was supposed to be against marrying different ethnic groups.
     
    I think the alt-right is more about pan-white identity, and the Christian peoples of the Caucasus are probably considered as white by most alt-rightish people (and Americans still use the term "Caucasians" for whites after all). Given how many white Americans are of mixed ancestry (sometimes with some fraction of black or Amerindian ancestry mixed in), distinctions between different European ethnicities probably wouldn't make much sense anyway.

    Good point, with the quibble that most white Americans have ZERO African genetic contribution (sub-Saharan or otherwise) and zero Amerindian genes either.

    All the anecdotes about so-and-so’s super-white friend from Oklahoma who is 1/32 Crow or Chickasaw, or some very white person’s great-grandfather in North Dakota who was part Sioux, etc., can lead people to conclude that most white Americans have Amerindian genes to some small degree. We don’t.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    with the quibble that most white Americans have ZERO African genetic contribution
     
    I know, though apparently about 10% of white Southerners do have some still detectable black ancestry:
    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2017/09/18/black-ancestry-in-white-americans-of-colonial-background/comment-page-1/
    At very low fractions though, certainly not to a degree that it should matter for identity or other purposes.
  58. @Dmitry
    Richard Spencer's wife is Georgian (i.e. ethnic Georgian American citizen) - so he does not "practise what preaches" when it comes to the White/European Nationalism movement in the United States.

    Nathan Damigo is Georgian?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    Are you trying to insinuate that Spencer is a homo? Is there any evidence for that? One shouldn't make such accusations without good reason, even if one disagrees with his politics.
  59. @Dmitry

    Well, even a lot of Turks and Iranians don’t really look “non-white” (unless you’re some Nordicist and think that Southern Italians for instance aren’t white), with some even being relatively fair-skinned. It’s more of a culture/religion thing with them than a clear-cut race issue like with whites
     
    Sure, of course.

    But I don't think this is what American far-right want.

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general, and the far-right in America have the same kind of racist views towards it).

    As far as race is concerned, it’s not equivalent. Much of South America is mestizo with a significant Amerindian component. Georgians are pure Caucasoids and genetically much closer to Russians than the typical Mexican immigrant is to the typical white American.

    Europeans have common misconceptions about the the racial composition of South America because their elites and TV stars tend to be very European but those elite descendants of conquistadors are mostly not the people that are now moving to America. Even within the Amerindian populations there seems to be a north/south gradient of IQ and r/K-selection and the people that are now making a mass migration to America have much of their ancestors from tropical regions where selection pressures resemble those that in the Old World are found in Africa or southernmost Asia.

    You appear to have bought some strawman that these American racists are just obsessed with skin or eye pigmentation. There is a good reason to expect significant genetic differences beyond just skin pigmentation between white Americans and mestizos, much more so than between Russians and Georgians. (Of course, there is a gap there so it’s still possible that there are biological behavior differences between Russians and Caucasus peoples, but the gap there is much smaller so it’s not analogous.)

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    You appear to have bought some strawman that these American racists are just obsessed with skin or eye pigmentation. There is a good reason to expect significant genetic differences beyond just skin pigmentation between white Americans and mestizos, much more so than between Russians and Georgians. (Of course, there is a gap there so it’s still possible that there are biological behavior differences between Russians and Caucasus peoples, but the gap there is much smaller so it’s not analogous.)

     

    It's not just an issue of which ethnicities are closer or further. But that there is also analogous political situation, particularly on the far-right, in relation to immigration flows from the Caucasus and Central Asia, as there is in United States with the Mexico-US immigration flow. As I wrote above - if Ann Coulter was transposed from New York to Moscow - she would ranting against these immigrants, in the way she does currently against Mexican ones.

    The analogous situation for Richard Spencer (as the host Anatoly Karlin corrects me above), would be if a leader of the far-right in Russia married a half-Mexican woman.

    The fact the reverse situation happened is not particularly interesting (as I have nothing against married people from other nationalities - so good for him!), but I do find it an amusing juxtaposition

    , @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    You are focusing on genetics, but culture is equally important. I spent a week in Mexico City (admittedly, I did not see Mexican countryside) and my impression is that it is safer than most American cities. Coming from the US, where the majority believes that Hollywood crap is culture, the profusion of bookstores and museums strikes you, and you see lots of locals in both. What’s more, many of those museums are free, meaning that poor Mexican government has money to fund them, whereas the US government only has money for Pentagon, feeding rich thieves. Yes, most people’s faces would not look out of place on Maya or Aztec paintings, but their culture is an admirable fusion of European and Amerindian. Murals (by Rivera, Siqueiros, and others) are good example of this fusion. Latin American literature (Marquez, Asturias, others) is no fluke: it is a genuine excellent fusion of these cultures. I think that when Western Europe completes its current suicide, Eastern Europe (maybe including Germany), Russia, and Latin America will remain the only European parts on the globe.
  60. @Dmitry

    Well, even a lot of Turks and Iranians don’t really look “non-white” (unless you’re some Nordicist and think that Southern Italians for instance aren’t white), with some even being relatively fair-skinned. It’s more of a culture/religion thing with them than a clear-cut race issue like with whites
     
    Sure, of course.

    But I don't think this is what American far-right want.

    Otherwise, why would they be complaining about immigration from Mexico? (Mexico is basically the American equivalent of Georgia/Caucauses in general, and the far-right in America have the same kind of racist views towards it).

    I don’t think you’ve met enough Mexicans.

    And by the way, here in the USA many of us would gladly trade millions of Mexicans for Armenians or Georgians.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    I don’t think you’ve met enough Mexicans.

    And by the way, here in the USA many of us would gladly trade millions of Mexicans for Armenians or Georgians.
     

    I have met some and even talked a lot, and my memories are of some very nice, civilized Mexicans/Latin Americans (both brown skinned and white skinned ones - I don't notice a correlation to personality) when I was studying in English summer school.

    If the issue is about restricting immigration or 'only sending the best people' (to paraphrase Trump), you are preaching to the choir with me though.

    The whole issue is solved by setting up hermetic border-security and building a strong filtration system. If you manage to get a system where only the nicest, civilized people coming through - most people will develop a positive impression of all nationalities and there will be a lot less national hatred than presently.

  61. @Anatoly Karlin
    Just a quick note that Spencer's wife is half-Georgian, half-Russian.

    Quarter Georgian, three-quarters Russian.

  62. @Jaakko Raipala
    As far as race is concerned, it's not equivalent. Much of South America is mestizo with a significant Amerindian component. Georgians are pure Caucasoids and genetically much closer to Russians than the typical Mexican immigrant is to the typical white American.

    Europeans have common misconceptions about the the racial composition of South America because their elites and TV stars tend to be very European but those elite descendants of conquistadors are mostly not the people that are now moving to America. Even within the Amerindian populations there seems to be a north/south gradient of IQ and r/K-selection and the people that are now making a mass migration to America have much of their ancestors from tropical regions where selection pressures resemble those that in the Old World are found in Africa or southernmost Asia.

    You appear to have bought some strawman that these American racists are just obsessed with skin or eye pigmentation. There is a good reason to expect significant genetic differences beyond just skin pigmentation between white Americans and mestizos, much more so than between Russians and Georgians. (Of course, there is a gap there so it's still possible that there are biological behavior differences between Russians and Caucasus peoples, but the gap there is much smaller so it's not analogous.)

    You appear to have bought some strawman that these American racists are just obsessed with skin or eye pigmentation. There is a good reason to expect significant genetic differences beyond just skin pigmentation between white Americans and mestizos, much more so than between Russians and Georgians. (Of course, there is a gap there so it’s still possible that there are biological behavior differences between Russians and Caucasus peoples, but the gap there is much smaller so it’s not analogous.)

    It’s not just an issue of which ethnicities are closer or further. But that there is also analogous political situation, particularly on the far-right, in relation to immigration flows from the Caucasus and Central Asia, as there is in United States with the Mexico-US immigration flow. As I wrote above – if Ann Coulter was transposed from New York to Moscow – she would ranting against these immigrants, in the way she does currently against Mexican ones.

    The analogous situation for Richard Spencer (as the host Anatoly Karlin corrects me above), would be if a leader of the far-right in Russia married a half-Mexican woman.

    The fact the reverse situation happened is not particularly interesting (as I have nothing against married people from other nationalities – so good for him!), but I do find it an amusing juxtaposition

    • Replies: @German_reader

    But that there is also analogous political situation, particularly on the far-right, in relation to immigration flows from the Caucasus and Central Asia
     
    I don't think the comparison works, quite apart from issues of race and culture, you understate the respective size of the problem imo. Large contiguous areas of the US already are heavily Hispanic, Mexican-Americans alone already make up more than 11% of the US population, and the Hispanic share of the US population will inevitably increase. It's not unreasonable for white Americans to feel the country as they knew it is vanishing before their eyes, because that''s basically what has been happening the last 30-40 years, and is now pretty much irreversible absent truly drastic measures. By contrast, there isn't really a chance that Caucasians (Russian citizens anyway) could take over large parts of Russia, there aren't enough of them; Chechens may be a crime and security problem, but they won't ever be 11% of the Russian population. Something like this could conceivably happen with Central Asians though if Russians aren't careful.
  63. @RadicalCenter
    Good point, with the quibble that most white Americans have ZERO African genetic contribution (sub-Saharan or otherwise) and zero Amerindian genes either.

    All the anecdotes about so-and-so's super-white friend from Oklahoma who is 1/32 Crow or Chickasaw, or some very white person's great-grandfather in North Dakota who was part Sioux, etc., can lead people to conclude that most white Americans have Amerindian genes to some small degree. We don't.

    with the quibble that most white Americans have ZERO African genetic contribution

    I know, though apparently about 10% of white Southerners do have some still detectable black ancestry:
    https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2017/09/18/black-ancestry-in-white-americans-of-colonial-background/comment-page-1/
    At very low fractions though, certainly not to a degree that it should matter for identity or other purposes.

  64. @RadicalCenter
    I don't think you've met enough Mexicans.

    And by the way, here in the USA many of us would gladly trade millions of Mexicans for Armenians or Georgians.

    I don’t think you’ve met enough Mexicans.

    And by the way, here in the USA many of us would gladly trade millions of Mexicans for Armenians or Georgians.

    I have met some and even talked a lot, and my memories are of some very nice, civilized Mexicans/Latin Americans (both brown skinned and white skinned ones – I don’t notice a correlation to personality) when I was studying in English summer school.

    If the issue is about restricting immigration or ‘only sending the best people’ (to paraphrase Trump), you are preaching to the choir with me though.

    The whole issue is solved by setting up hermetic border-security and building a strong filtration system. If you manage to get a system where only the nicest, civilized people coming through – most people will develop a positive impression of all nationalities and there will be a lot less national hatred than presently.

  65. @Pavlo
    Nathan Damigo is Georgian?

    Are you trying to insinuate that Spencer is a homo? Is there any evidence for that? One shouldn’t make such accusations without good reason, even if one disagrees with his politics.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
    Between his association with noted buggerers, his preference for fruity haircuts, the weird NO GIRLS ALLOWED clubhouse he tried to set up, and the tendency of white nationalist associations to be thick beset with sexual deviants of all kinds, it is an assumption I feel entitled to make.

    But further comment on the deficiencies of American white nationalists is beside the point - which is that nobody should be surprised that non-systemic Russian nationalists exhibit similar crippling faults - dysfunctional and criminal leaders (Tesak, and the redhead whose name I forget) and followers, and a fixation upon hobby horses that at best baffle normal people (neo-paganism) and at worst repel them (Hitlerism, Ukrainophilia).
  66. @Dmitry

    You appear to have bought some strawman that these American racists are just obsessed with skin or eye pigmentation. There is a good reason to expect significant genetic differences beyond just skin pigmentation between white Americans and mestizos, much more so than between Russians and Georgians. (Of course, there is a gap there so it’s still possible that there are biological behavior differences between Russians and Caucasus peoples, but the gap there is much smaller so it’s not analogous.)

     

    It's not just an issue of which ethnicities are closer or further. But that there is also analogous political situation, particularly on the far-right, in relation to immigration flows from the Caucasus and Central Asia, as there is in United States with the Mexico-US immigration flow. As I wrote above - if Ann Coulter was transposed from New York to Moscow - she would ranting against these immigrants, in the way she does currently against Mexican ones.

    The analogous situation for Richard Spencer (as the host Anatoly Karlin corrects me above), would be if a leader of the far-right in Russia married a half-Mexican woman.

    The fact the reverse situation happened is not particularly interesting (as I have nothing against married people from other nationalities - so good for him!), but I do find it an amusing juxtaposition

    But that there is also analogous political situation, particularly on the far-right, in relation to immigration flows from the Caucasus and Central Asia

    I don’t think the comparison works, quite apart from issues of race and culture, you understate the respective size of the problem imo. Large contiguous areas of the US already are heavily Hispanic, Mexican-Americans alone already make up more than 11% of the US population, and the Hispanic share of the US population will inevitably increase. It’s not unreasonable for white Americans to feel the country as they knew it is vanishing before their eyes, because that”s basically what has been happening the last 30-40 years, and is now pretty much irreversible absent truly drastic measures. By contrast, there isn’t really a chance that Caucasians (Russian citizens anyway) could take over large parts of Russia, there aren’t enough of them; Chechens may be a crime and security problem, but they won’t ever be 11% of the Russian population. Something like this could conceivably happen with Central Asians though if Russians aren’t careful.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    I don’t think the comparison works, quite apart from issues of race and culture, you understate the respective size of the problem imo. Large contiguous areas of the US already are heavily Hispanic, Mexican-Americans alone already make up more than 11% of the US population, and the Hispanic share of the US population will inevitably increase. It’s not unreasonable for white Americans to feel the country as they knew it is vanishing before their eyes, because that”s basically what has been happening the last 30-40 years, and is now pretty much irreversible absent truly drastic measures. By contrast, there isn’t really a chance that Caucasians (Russian citizens anyway) could take over large parts of Russia, there aren’t enough of them; Chechens may be a crime and security problem, but they won’t ever be 11% of the Russian population. Something like this could conceivably happen with Central Asians though if Russians aren’t careful.
     
    Well I can't speak about the exact situation in the United States (at least having visited the country I did not feel I was in some post-apocalyptic Mad Max movie, as some portray - it's still a very well functioning country).

    But there are some quite similar tensions over the last years.

    Russia itself deals with the same balancing act as the United States of having many nationalities within the country. In addition, there are largescale immigration flows from less developed countries into certain large cities (although these might be of a more temporary nature than in the United States).

    There are also very high differences in birthrates between different groups within the country (birthrates are highest in the North Caucasus regions and in Tuva - while lowest in Leningrad Oblast).

    None of this has to be a problem and there is nothing near catastrophic or 'dire' happening demographically. But there are quite analogous tensions and debates to what we can see in the United States.

    -

    As for whether things like Mexican immigration to the United States is catastrophic or not - it is clear to me that this will depend largely on the quality and attitude of the immigrants who are coming (and this can be modified by building a hermetic border control combined with a filtering system to accept only those Mexican immigrants who are most suitable for the country).

  67. @German_reader

    But that there is also analogous political situation, particularly on the far-right, in relation to immigration flows from the Caucasus and Central Asia
     
    I don't think the comparison works, quite apart from issues of race and culture, you understate the respective size of the problem imo. Large contiguous areas of the US already are heavily Hispanic, Mexican-Americans alone already make up more than 11% of the US population, and the Hispanic share of the US population will inevitably increase. It's not unreasonable for white Americans to feel the country as they knew it is vanishing before their eyes, because that''s basically what has been happening the last 30-40 years, and is now pretty much irreversible absent truly drastic measures. By contrast, there isn't really a chance that Caucasians (Russian citizens anyway) could take over large parts of Russia, there aren't enough of them; Chechens may be a crime and security problem, but they won't ever be 11% of the Russian population. Something like this could conceivably happen with Central Asians though if Russians aren't careful.

    I don’t think the comparison works, quite apart from issues of race and culture, you understate the respective size of the problem imo. Large contiguous areas of the US already are heavily Hispanic, Mexican-Americans alone already make up more than 11% of the US population, and the Hispanic share of the US population will inevitably increase. It’s not unreasonable for white Americans to feel the country as they knew it is vanishing before their eyes, because that”s basically what has been happening the last 30-40 years, and is now pretty much irreversible absent truly drastic measures. By contrast, there isn’t really a chance that Caucasians (Russian citizens anyway) could take over large parts of Russia, there aren’t enough of them; Chechens may be a crime and security problem, but they won’t ever be 11% of the Russian population. Something like this could conceivably happen with Central Asians though if Russians aren’t careful.

    Well I can’t speak about the exact situation in the United States (at least having visited the country I did not feel I was in some post-apocalyptic Mad Max movie, as some portray – it’s still a very well functioning country).

    But there are some quite similar tensions over the last years.

    Russia itself deals with the same balancing act as the United States of having many nationalities within the country. In addition, there are largescale immigration flows from less developed countries into certain large cities (although these might be of a more temporary nature than in the United States).

    There are also very high differences in birthrates between different groups within the country (birthrates are highest in the North Caucasus regions and in Tuva – while lowest in Leningrad Oblast).

    None of this has to be a problem and there is nothing near catastrophic or ‘dire’ happening demographically. But there are quite analogous tensions and debates to what we can see in the United States.

    As for whether things like Mexican immigration to the United States is catastrophic or not – it is clear to me that this will depend largely on the quality and attitude of the immigrants who are coming (and this can be modified by building a hermetic border control combined with a filtering system to accept only those Mexican immigrants who are most suitable for the country).

  68. @German_reader
    Are you trying to insinuate that Spencer is a homo? Is there any evidence for that? One shouldn't make such accusations without good reason, even if one disagrees with his politics.

    Between his association with noted buggerers, his preference for fruity haircuts, the weird NO GIRLS ALLOWED clubhouse he tried to set up, and the tendency of white nationalist associations to be thick beset with sexual deviants of all kinds, it is an assumption I feel entitled to make.

    But further comment on the deficiencies of American white nationalists is beside the point – which is that nobody should be surprised that non-systemic Russian nationalists exhibit similar crippling faults – dysfunctional and criminal leaders (Tesak, and the redhead whose name I forget) and followers, and a fixation upon hobby horses that at best baffle normal people (neo-paganism) and at worst repel them (Hitlerism, Ukrainophilia).

    • Replies: @neutral

    and the tendency of white nationalist associations to be thick beset with sexual deviants of all kinds
     
    So white nationalists own Hollywood now? I suppose you think Weinstein and his ilk are all Aryans now.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    But Spencer isn't the leader of the Alt-Right.

    https://twitter.com/bronzeagemantis/status/956094192194859009

  69. @Dmitry

    These kind things sometimes happened in the British empire (and I assume the others as well), somebody “went native” and renounced his original roots. The only difference now is that whites are going “native” in what used to be their own lands not too long ago.

     

    He was a Russian immigrant who repatriated to Germany (surely due to having Volga German ancestry, as other commentators mention above).

    Germany operates a Law of Return, (the same as Israel does for people with Jewish ancestry) - for people of Volga German ancestry.

    It wasn't generally reported as an easy repatriation/immigration for many of them - basically all the same issues that Russian-speaking Jews had immigrating to Germany/Israel in the 1990s.

    In Israel, there have been similar cases of repatriating citizens, converting to Islam - and in one case trying to join ISIS in Syria:
    https://www.vesty.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4929214,00.html

    He was a Russian immigrant who repatriated to Germany (surely due to having Volga German ancestry, as other commentators mention above).

    Not surely.
    There were German colonies in many parts of the Russian Empire.
    The Volga area is just the most famous.

  70. @Daniel Chieh
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GspKQrTbh-A

    In a less shitposting way: if my "TradRight" party just picked a lesbian leader, I think I would also get pretty annoyed with it.

    AfD is not TradRight, it is just Right,

  71. @Pavlo
    Between his association with noted buggerers, his preference for fruity haircuts, the weird NO GIRLS ALLOWED clubhouse he tried to set up, and the tendency of white nationalist associations to be thick beset with sexual deviants of all kinds, it is an assumption I feel entitled to make.

    But further comment on the deficiencies of American white nationalists is beside the point - which is that nobody should be surprised that non-systemic Russian nationalists exhibit similar crippling faults - dysfunctional and criminal leaders (Tesak, and the redhead whose name I forget) and followers, and a fixation upon hobby horses that at best baffle normal people (neo-paganism) and at worst repel them (Hitlerism, Ukrainophilia).

    and the tendency of white nationalist associations to be thick beset with sexual deviants of all kinds

    So white nationalists own Hollywood now? I suppose you think Weinstein and his ilk are all Aryans now.

  72. @Pavlo
    Between his association with noted buggerers, his preference for fruity haircuts, the weird NO GIRLS ALLOWED clubhouse he tried to set up, and the tendency of white nationalist associations to be thick beset with sexual deviants of all kinds, it is an assumption I feel entitled to make.

    But further comment on the deficiencies of American white nationalists is beside the point - which is that nobody should be surprised that non-systemic Russian nationalists exhibit similar crippling faults - dysfunctional and criminal leaders (Tesak, and the redhead whose name I forget) and followers, and a fixation upon hobby horses that at best baffle normal people (neo-paganism) and at worst repel them (Hitlerism, Ukrainophilia).

    But Spencer isn’t the leader of the Alt-Right.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
    Still looks just a shade too hetero to be a plausible stand in for Dickie.
  73. @Daniel Chieh
    But Spencer isn't the leader of the Alt-Right.

    https://twitter.com/bronzeagemantis/status/956094192194859009

    Still looks just a shade too hetero to be a plausible stand in for Dickie.

  74. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @The Big Red Scary
    I’m curious: have you spent time in urban Japan? Rural Japan? I’ve spent a little time in urban and suburban Japan. It seemed to me to be incredibly wealthy in public goods, although I don’t know anything about personal wealth in Japan. As for the expense of living, I found food and temporary accommodation quite affordable, even on a modest per diem provided by the Russian institution for which I work. As for buying a flat, again, I have no idea.

    Anon from TN.
    I was in Japan for about three weeks as a tourist. Mostly in cities: Tokyo, Matsumoto, Hiroshima, Kyoto, etc. Several things struck me. First, many places in the country are beautiful, although profusion of above-ground wires and cables often spoils the view in cities. Second, they sell single tomatoes, persimmons, etc, both in the markets and supermarkets, and these are priced at $3-5 apiece. Only rice is much cheaper, but I can’t eat as much of it as most Japanese do. Third, very few Japanese women have any jewelry on them, suggesting that they don’t have money to spare (all females of our species love baubles). Fourth, Japanese are amazingly disciplined, they never cross the road when the streetlight is red (as people do in the US, Russia, and Europe, even in Switzerland), and express their disapproval when you do that. Fifth, their high-speed shinkansen trains are amazingly good and always on time (like trains in Switzerland), but there are marks on platforms where you have to line up for different types of trains, and Japanese line up exactly on those marks. Overall, I liked Japan and I don’t want it to become something different, be it “anywhere USA” or “Dakar”.

  75. AnonFromTN [AKA "Anon"] says:
    @Jaakko Raipala
    As far as race is concerned, it's not equivalent. Much of South America is mestizo with a significant Amerindian component. Georgians are pure Caucasoids and genetically much closer to Russians than the typical Mexican immigrant is to the typical white American.

    Europeans have common misconceptions about the the racial composition of South America because their elites and TV stars tend to be very European but those elite descendants of conquistadors are mostly not the people that are now moving to America. Even within the Amerindian populations there seems to be a north/south gradient of IQ and r/K-selection and the people that are now making a mass migration to America have much of their ancestors from tropical regions where selection pressures resemble those that in the Old World are found in Africa or southernmost Asia.

    You appear to have bought some strawman that these American racists are just obsessed with skin or eye pigmentation. There is a good reason to expect significant genetic differences beyond just skin pigmentation between white Americans and mestizos, much more so than between Russians and Georgians. (Of course, there is a gap there so it's still possible that there are biological behavior differences between Russians and Caucasus peoples, but the gap there is much smaller so it's not analogous.)

    Anon from TN
    You are focusing on genetics, but culture is equally important. I spent a week in Mexico City (admittedly, I did not see Mexican countryside) and my impression is that it is safer than most American cities. Coming from the US, where the majority believes that Hollywood crap is culture, the profusion of bookstores and museums strikes you, and you see lots of locals in both. What’s more, many of those museums are free, meaning that poor Mexican government has money to fund them, whereas the US government only has money for Pentagon, feeding rich thieves. Yes, most people’s faces would not look out of place on Maya or Aztec paintings, but their culture is an admirable fusion of European and Amerindian. Murals (by Rivera, Siqueiros, and others) are good example of this fusion. Latin American literature (Marquez, Asturias, others) is no fluke: it is a genuine excellent fusion of these cultures. I think that when Western Europe completes its current suicide, Eastern Europe (maybe including Germany), Russia, and Latin America will remain the only European parts on the globe.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
    No. An average guy may be capable of understanding Newtonian mechanics now that you can buy a textbook but if he was living in Newton's times he'd never be able to come up with what Newton invented. Mestizos may be capable enough to appreciate past European culture but to have a living civilization you need to be creating more and moving forward. Their smart fraction is simply not enough for that.

    They also have a class of elites who are nearly or completely pure Europeans. This is also the plan of American and European elites who are *not* killing European culture for themselves, they are simply converting their countries into similar arrangements of brown masses ruled by white elites with an occasional token brown. European elites plan to live in white enclaves protected by armed guards while they proclaim love for brown masses. If this future is "suicide" then most of Latin America is already there.

    Governments only ever appreciate what's already recognized so government funded culture is always going to at best dead museum pieces. No great new work ever came from a direct government grant.
  76. @AnonFromTN
    Anon from TN
    You are focusing on genetics, but culture is equally important. I spent a week in Mexico City (admittedly, I did not see Mexican countryside) and my impression is that it is safer than most American cities. Coming from the US, where the majority believes that Hollywood crap is culture, the profusion of bookstores and museums strikes you, and you see lots of locals in both. What’s more, many of those museums are free, meaning that poor Mexican government has money to fund them, whereas the US government only has money for Pentagon, feeding rich thieves. Yes, most people’s faces would not look out of place on Maya or Aztec paintings, but their culture is an admirable fusion of European and Amerindian. Murals (by Rivera, Siqueiros, and others) are good example of this fusion. Latin American literature (Marquez, Asturias, others) is no fluke: it is a genuine excellent fusion of these cultures. I think that when Western Europe completes its current suicide, Eastern Europe (maybe including Germany), Russia, and Latin America will remain the only European parts on the globe.

    No. An average guy may be capable of understanding Newtonian mechanics now that you can buy a textbook but if he was living in Newton’s times he’d never be able to come up with what Newton invented. Mestizos may be capable enough to appreciate past European culture but to have a living civilization you need to be creating more and moving forward. Their smart fraction is simply not enough for that.

    They also have a class of elites who are nearly or completely pure Europeans. This is also the plan of American and European elites who are *not* killing European culture for themselves, they are simply converting their countries into similar arrangements of brown masses ruled by white elites with an occasional token brown. European elites plan to live in white enclaves protected by armed guards while they proclaim love for brown masses. If this future is “suicide” then most of Latin America is already there.

    Governments only ever appreciate what’s already recognized so government funded culture is always going to at best dead museum pieces. No great new work ever came from a direct government grant.

    • Replies: @Swedish Family

    Governments only ever appreciate what’s already recognized so government funded culture is always going to at best dead museum pieces. No great new work ever came from a direct government grant.
     
    Most of Europe's greatest artists, from Michelangelo to Andrei Rublev, worked under patronage.
    , @melanf

    Governments only ever appreciate what’s already recognized so government funded culture is always going to at best dead museum pieces. No great new work ever came from a direct government grant.
     
    Lorenzo de ' Medici would have been amazed by your statement.
  77. Mestizos may be capable enough to appreciate past European culture but to have a living civilization you need to be creating more and moving forward.

    Diego Rivera and the director Iñárritu appear to have some Native ancestry, though less than is typical among Mestizos. Del Toro, OTOH, looks purely European.

    Latin Americans’ European heritage is Spanish, and Spaniards were better know for art, literature (and war) than for technological/scientific achievements.

    They also have a class of elites who are nearly or completely pure Europeans.

    Social mobility tends to be limited everywhere; in Europe it also true to a large degree.

    It’s just that in Mexico, due to the conquest of non-Euroepan people by Europeans, the elites tend to be Europeans (even after thousands of years, one sees the same thing in India, with higher castes being lighter, descended from ancient norhtenr invaders). Poorer Spanish soldiers who couldn’t bring women over form Spain took native wives, and so the middle to lower clases are of mixed descent.

  78. @Jaakko Raipala
    No. An average guy may be capable of understanding Newtonian mechanics now that you can buy a textbook but if he was living in Newton's times he'd never be able to come up with what Newton invented. Mestizos may be capable enough to appreciate past European culture but to have a living civilization you need to be creating more and moving forward. Their smart fraction is simply not enough for that.

    They also have a class of elites who are nearly or completely pure Europeans. This is also the plan of American and European elites who are *not* killing European culture for themselves, they are simply converting their countries into similar arrangements of brown masses ruled by white elites with an occasional token brown. European elites plan to live in white enclaves protected by armed guards while they proclaim love for brown masses. If this future is "suicide" then most of Latin America is already there.

    Governments only ever appreciate what's already recognized so government funded culture is always going to at best dead museum pieces. No great new work ever came from a direct government grant.

    Governments only ever appreciate what’s already recognized so government funded culture is always going to at best dead museum pieces. No great new work ever came from a direct government grant.

    Most of Europe’s greatest artists, from Michelangelo to Andrei Rublev, worked under patronage.

  79. @Jason Liu
    Don't be such a jealous little shit. Japan probably dislikes Trump because of his brash mannerisms, not his policies.

    He’s funny, says it like it is, isn’t trying to force us to like gays, is cold on Muslims and our immigrants are annoyingly snot-nosed.

    One of the above or a combination of…

  80. @Jaakko Raipala
    No. An average guy may be capable of understanding Newtonian mechanics now that you can buy a textbook but if he was living in Newton's times he'd never be able to come up with what Newton invented. Mestizos may be capable enough to appreciate past European culture but to have a living civilization you need to be creating more and moving forward. Their smart fraction is simply not enough for that.

    They also have a class of elites who are nearly or completely pure Europeans. This is also the plan of American and European elites who are *not* killing European culture for themselves, they are simply converting their countries into similar arrangements of brown masses ruled by white elites with an occasional token brown. European elites plan to live in white enclaves protected by armed guards while they proclaim love for brown masses. If this future is "suicide" then most of Latin America is already there.

    Governments only ever appreciate what's already recognized so government funded culture is always going to at best dead museum pieces. No great new work ever came from a direct government grant.

    Governments only ever appreciate what’s already recognized so government funded culture is always going to at best dead museum pieces. No great new work ever came from a direct government grant.

    Lorenzo de ‘ Medici would have been amazed by your statement.

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