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Open Thread 97: PISA 2018
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PISA 2018 results dropping in a few hours.

https://www.oecd.org/pisa/

Use this thread for discussing them.

In particular, I am excited to finally get some definitive answers on the Ukrainian Question. (And Belarus).

***

UPDATE: The results are in. Raw data.

***

My classic IQ related articles:

Those of you who can read Russian can also check out my article Русская Ноосфера: масштабный обзор уровня IQ по регионам России for Sputnik & Pogrom.

In the next few weeks, I plan to augment that article with the new data from Ministry of Defense online cognitive abilities testing, as well as the PISA 2018 results. Then translate/convert it into English for publication at The Unz Review.

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Open Thread, PISA 
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  1. This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. indocon says:

    PISA to look forward to is 2021 when India finally participates again, this time in a mixture of private, government, and military schools around a modern city of Chandigarh in North. The results of this test will show how much gas is left in the world economy tank. Is India next China or Indonesia or sub saharan Africa (2009 PISA scores)?

    The 2009 test was given in 3 states with relatively high % of upper caste people (Tamil Naidu, Bengal, and Himachal) but only to government school students, which mostly get students from lowest socio economic strata.

  3. The answer to Ukrainian Q is likely to be similar to India: high heterogeneity on populational level. Plenty of high IQ and lots of low IQ individuals balance each other, resulting in a slightly subpar average for a white country.

  4. AP says:

    Will there be data by oblast?

    I predict Ukraine will be like southern Russia on average, with positive outlier in Kiev, elevation in Kharkiv and Lviv, and negative outliers in non-Lviv western Ukraine like Transcarpathia and Volyn.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    , @Belarusian Dude
  5. Just another reminder why winter is the best season.

  6. Just a reminder to everyone that PISA changed their methodology significantly in 2015, and it made high-performing groups within nations (such as US Asians) and high-performing states(Korea, Finland etc) drop significantly in test scores, while boosting generally weaker countries.

    A big interest of mine will be seeing if US Whites and US Asians are close in score, and if they are, that just means that there should be even further doubt about the post-2015 reports, given that US Asians are significantly smarter by IQ (as AE re-confirmed using NAEP data).

    This year’s special focus is reading, where Whites usually do better than average and Asians do worse than average. For math, the differences are quite large.

    There is usually data for the combined score for all racial groups released, which is what I will be looking for.

    Now if the US Whites & Asians are close to each other in combined score or if US Whites even outscore US Asians as they did in 2015 in combined metrics then more skepticism should be in place for PISA as a valid tool as it would fail a basic credibility test, given that virutally all other data in the US shows quite a distinct – and growing – gap. Not to forget that previous pre-methodology change PISA tests – such as 2012 – showed this gap, as well.

    • Replies: @songbird
  7. songbird says:
    @Thulean Friend

    The expressed purpose of PISA – to facilitate comparisons so that best practices can be adopted in the low performing nations – is naked blank-slatism.

    Is the expressed purpose the real purpose behind the test? If so, I don’t see how it could be a great proxy for IQ, especially over the course of time, as one imagines that there will be a drive to show some progress in the equalization process.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    , @Dmitry
  8. @songbird

    PISA has historically been fairly g-loaded, more so than TIMSS (which is usually better seen as a proxy for the educational quality of the system rather than the students themselves). I’m not saying the test is worthless. I’m just saying that post-2015 revision, it isn’t as rock solid as it used to be.

    I hope the 2018 will adress these concerns by being more credible, One of the proxies is looking at the combined US White-US Asian scores. If they are close, even if US Asians are a little bit ahead, then that is concerning. There should be a significant gap, as was in pre-revision PISA editions (such as 2012). Another would be to see if high-scoring countries continue to fall for unexplained reasons whereas historical laggards (Brazil, Israel and up to 2015, Sweden) will continue to see unexplain upwards revisions despite all three countries having negative demographic effects.

    In Sweden, we steadily went from one of the top performers in the mid-1990s until it reached a nadir in 2012. Then, suddenly, in 2015 we got a significant boost post-revision. Turkey was another country, as was Brazil and many others, whereas high performers got a cut downwards. You combine this with shocking fall of US Asian scores from 2012 to 2015 – at complete odds with all other tests in the US, including previous PISA reports – and suddenly the test isn’t as credible as it used to be.

  9. dux.ie says:

    Official snapshot results

  10. Svevlad says:

    I blame our bad results on the fact that kids only memorize everything to get graded well and forget about it when it’s over, really

    • Replies: @Epigon
  11. hgv says:

    It seems to me that PISA explains less and less about the differences between countries in development and other areas…
    How is Ukraine that close to Russia if it is poor compared to it, and how is it so far ahead of other neighbours with non-oil-based economies that were richer than it even during the ’90s, before any hope of attainment of conditions favorable for development,like access to EU market and so on? And no, corruption is not the amswer; at that time, the entire Eastern Europe was corrupt.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AnonFromTN
  12. Epigon says:
    @Svevlad

    Like I give a fuck about PISA.

    Lets compare Estonia, the top performing European state, and Serbia, the shitty European state.

    Since 1993, Estonia has a grand total of 0 gold, 7 silver and 29 bronze medals at IMO.
    At IPhO, they have won 6 gold, 19 silver and 37 bronze medals – they won a gold and 4 silver medals in 2012 when they hosted the IPhO – classic feature since hosts have a strong say in problem selection.

    Serbia only started competing in 2006. Roughly half the participation count.
    IMO: 14 gold, 26 silver, 30 bronze
    IPhO: 4 gold, 20 silver, 31 bronze.

    The average is largely irrelevant, since vast majority of workforce will not be thinkers but doers, following orders and implementing ideas devised by others. I would gladly take a society with a lower mean but larger SD – the top 1%-10% comparison between countries would be much more interesting.

    I suspect East Asian average superiority would disappear without a trace in these comparisons.

    • LOL: Thulean Friend
  13. These tests are worthless. Here in Croatia we got better or nearly equal results than Iceland, Israel or Switzerland- and we are Stone Age for them. On the other hand, Ireland is highly placed, but all people who have worked there say it’s one of the dumbest white countries in the world.

    Of course, I’m talking only about Caucasians & non-populous countries.

    • Replies: @nymom
  14. Yet again it amazes me how highly Ireland manages to score despite the debacle that is our education system and the lack of any motivated high-IQ immigrant population e.g. Asians or Jews. Tá aois forlámhas an Gael seo chugainn!

    I’m not surprised that Ukraine has scored low, no doubt any remnant of a solid education system leftover from the Soviet days has been decaying without repair. Belarus however, is unexpectedly low.

    Previous evidence points towards Belarus having a slightly higher average IQ than Ukraine or Russia (whose IQ and PISA scores are dragged down by its 15% minorities no doubt), and to my knowledge the potato dictator has done his best to maintain the education system, so I’m very curious why they scored so low.

  15. Jaichind says:

    How come no results for Vietnam? They did quite well in 2015 and they participated for 2018 as well. As for Mainland China part of the reason for their surge is the replacement of mediocre Guangdong with top educational province Zhejiang

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @Another German Reader
  16. Svevlad says:
    @Epigon

    Could be, I came to a similar conclusion.

    Balkan populations consist of really smart people and a bunch of retards, so the average is lower, yet there’s maybe 5 people with the “average IQ” then

    Our bell curve probably looks inverse at this point

  17. Mitleser says:

    The decline of the German performance in the 2010s continues

    • Replies: @neutral
  18. melanf says:

    Previous evidence points towards Belarus having a slightly higher average IQ than Ukraine or Russia (whose IQ and PISA scores are dragged down by its 15% minorities no doubt), and to my knowledge the potato dictator has done his best to maintain the education system, so I’m very curious why they scored so low.

    As noted above in the results for European countries there are obvious oddities (Portugal vs Luxembourg, etc.). But it is also possible that St. Petersburg and Moscow compensate for the Caucasus and Tuva.

    Another explanation is that PISA tests show how the education system is adapted for the purpose of obtaining maximum results in PISA tests

    • Agree: Epigon, Anatoly Karlin
  19. Rodolfo says:

    Why Japan so bad and Sweden so good in 2018?

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  20. AP says:
    @hgv

    How is Ukraine that close to Russia if it is poor compared to it, and how is it so far ahead of other neighbours with non-oil-based economies that were richer than it even during the ’90s, before any hope of attainment of conditions favorable for development,like access to EU market and so on? And no, corruption is not the amswer; at that time, the entire Eastern Europe was corrupt.

    1. Russia has oil.

    2. Eastern Europe was not nearly as corrupt as Ukraine in the 1990s. Also, Ukraine had (often non-Ukrainian) very smart thieving overclass. It’s neighbors didn’t have that.

    • Replies: @hgv
  21. AP says:

    So looks like Ukraine is indeed similar to southern (ethnic) Russia, given that this is the worst-performing part of ethnic Russia on other tests. It beats Slovakia (barely) and all the Balkans, but is lower than any other place in Europe.

    This is sort of what I expected. Would be interested to see regional data.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  22. Daniel.I says:

    In other news – whenever a Scandicuck starts lecturing others, just think of this

    • Replies: @utu
    , @songbird
  23. @AP

    I expected Belarus to be similar to Russia, instead it is halfway between Russia and Ukraine. That was a minor surprise.

    Otherwise, not surprised.

    Ukraine is slightly below Slovakia, it narrowly beats it out in Reading and Science, but lags severely on Math. It is, however, amusingly, virtually identical to Turkey.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Belarusian Dude
  24. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Ukraine is slightly below Slovakia, it narrowly beats it out in Reading and Science, but lags severely on Math. It is, however, amusingly, virtually identical to Turkey.

    Turkey also beats Greece and all the rest of the Balkans (and Georgia and Baku).

    For whatever reason math is Ukraine’s weakest point (although it still beats all the Balkans in this score). It does much better in reading and science.

    So do you agree that Ukraine is probably equal to southern ethnic Russia?

  25. utu says:
    @Daniel.I

    He likes it. Sweden is getting more and more like home for him:

    Rati (Sanskrit: रति, Rati) is the Hindu goddess of love, carnal desire, lust, passion and sexual pleasure.

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  26. jonni says:

    Finno-Ugrics are Asians.

    • LOL: Blinky Bill
    • Replies: @melanf
    , @Blinky Bill
  27. songbird says:
    @Daniel.I

    Guessing that Swedes painted over some pretty nice pictures during the Reformation.

  28. @AP

    So do you agree that Ukraine is probably equal to southern ethnic Russia?

    Yes, in fact, as I recall that was my latest pre-PISA 2018 assessment as well.

    • Replies: @amar
  29. neutral says:
    @Mitleser

    Is that decline because it includes non whites being counted as Germans?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  30. amar says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    What do you think about China’s 2018 result ? It is the China’s advanced 4 region . But they have a 180 million population together (which is higher than Japan ) .

  31. hgv says:
    @AP

    It is much more complicated than that. Firstly,oil prices started soaring only in the early 2000s; Russia was already richer than Ukraine in the 1990s, according to World Bank. Secondly, there was a thieving overclass throughout the Balkans too (each part of it focused on its own country), though maybe not as smart and not as foreign, but still competent enough to plunder everything worth it.

    I think it might have something to do with urbanization, which is higher in Russia and Ukraine than in all the Balkan countries. Or maybe those education systems more geared towards obtaining higher PISA scores really do obtain them (though I doubt Ukraine did that, giving its other more pressing problems).

  32. The Chinese results are ofc pretty worthless.

    BSJZ is like taking New York, San Francisco, Massachusetts (Zhejiang), and one of the higher quality states e.g. Wisconsin (Jiangsu) and claiming the US has a similar cognitive abilities profile to Singapore.

    Or, to take a Russian example: Only considering Moscow and SPB, Moscow oblast, and Yaroslavl oblast.

  33. @Some Guy

    Visualization is eh, but the article itself is interesting.

  34. Bassarab says:

    Interesting the top 4 countries have abysmal fertility rates. None of the countries scoring well on this assesment has replacement level rates either.

    Therefore, it seems if one wants longterm demographic stability the one thing not to do is have your people turn into a bunch of nerds. =]

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  35. songbird says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    They might be pretty interesting in the context of a longitudinal survey.

    I wish I could see a full list of the questions asked to students in China. Suppose that they are all pretty hum-drum, but imagine if they asked social questions centered around fertility. If they are not doing it, they should be doing it.

  36. @AltSerrice

    the lack of any motivated high-IQ immigrant population

    This is untrue. Irish non-European immigration is much more selective than French, Spanish, Italian or German non-European immigration is. Your Nigerians (many of whom are Igbo) are much like those in the UK or the US, and the Indians, Chinese, Vietnamese and Brazilians you get also come from the well-off middle class of their respective societies.

    • Replies: @AltSerrice
  37. @Rodolfo

    PISA has had a major revision in methdology post-2015, so I would take any post-2015 result with a grain of salt. For Sweden, our media reported that we had the largest share (11%) of pupuls who were excluded because they were “newly arrived”. Our coverage ratio (86%) is not terrible, but lower than Russia (94%) and Germany (99%!). These are truly bottom of the barrel types. Had we had a similar coverage ratio to Germany, you’d have seen our scores tank.

    Conversely, had Germany had our coverage ratio, they’d probably score close to Estonia.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @AP
    , @Rodolfo
  38. @AP

    Turkey also beats Greece and all the rest of the Balkans

    Turkey’s coverage ratio is only 73%. Serbia is at 88% (higher than many OECD countries) and Ukraine is at 87%. Strangely, Bulgaria and Romania are both in the low-70s.

    IMHO, there should be a cutoff at at least 85% coverage ratio. Some of the poorer countries like Albania only has a coverage ratio of 46% and Brazil is at 56%. Makes no sense to compare them to diligent countries like Germany or Russia.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  39. @AltSerrice

    I would say that Ireland shows a long history and focus on exceedingly fine details of verbal manipulation:

    Finally, one had to pay the honor price if one simply insulted someone of any importance: say, by turning the person away at a feast, inventing a particularly embarrassing nickname (at least, if it caught on), or humiliating the person through the use of satire.Mockery was a refined art in Medieval Ireland, and poets were considered close to magicians: it was said that a talented satirist could rhyme rats to death, or at the very least, raise blisters on the faces of his victims. Any man publicly mocked would have no choice but to defend his honor…

    What’s unusual about the Irish material is that it’s all spelled out so clearly. This is partly because Irish law codes were the work of a class of legal specialists who seem to have turned the whole business almost into a form of entertainment, devoting endless hours to coming up with every possible ramification of existing legal principles, whether or not there was any real possibility such a case might end up in court. Some of the provisos are so whimsical (“if stung by another man’s bee, one must calculate the extent of the injury, but also, if one swatted it in the process, subtract the replacement value of the bee”) that one has to assume they were basically jokes.

    – David Graber, The Five Thousand Years

    • Agree: AltSerrice
    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @AltSerrice
    , @alba
  40. Mitleser says:
    @Bassarab

    Mean offspring IQ by number of children

    1 101.4
    2 101.2
    3 100.2
    4 98.4
    5 97.1
    6 95.2
    7 94.2
    8 93.0
    9 91.7
    10 90.8
    11 89.6
    12+ 88.8

  41. AP says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Turkey’s coverage ratio is only 73%. Serbia is at 88% (higher than many OECD countries) and Ukraine is at 87%. Strangely, Bulgaria and Romania are both in the low-70s.

    The ones with low cutoffs probably exclude low achieving marginals like gypsies or Kurds, so actual results for places like Balkans or Turkey would have been lower.

    One one hand, this means the scores of Turkey, Romania* and Bulgaria may be artificially inflated. On the other hand the official results probably reflect performance of actual ethnic Turks, Romanians, Bulgarians, etc.

    *In Romania’s case I wonder if high-performing Hungarians have been excluded, though.

  42. @Thulean Friend

    One of the psychometrists (iirc Rindermann) came up with a formula to adjust the PISA results based on coverage rates, it is indeed an important consideration.

    I’ll look it up when I write up a proper post about PISA 2018.

    • Replies: @Some Guy
  43. @Thulean Friend

    Incorrect. In 2016 there were only ~10,000 Nigerians, and while the number of Africans (mostly Nigerians) has grown considerably since, they are all recent arrivals and hence have not had children of the ages that would be tested by PISA.

    In fact, this can be said for nearly all our minority groups. The vast majority arrived beginning in the early 2000s, PISA tests children ages 15-16. It is really only the British and some Eastern Europeans that will be showing up at all. As a recent graduate of the (woeful) Irish education system, I can attest that secondary level (13-18) is almost completely white and certainly vast majority Irish, while only primary level (5-12) is beginning to be populated by minorities.

    So in conclusion, no, we do not have a highly motivated immigrant class. (Though we might in 5-10 years).

    On a side note, our Brazilian demographic is are a little odd as the majority of them are middle class Brazilians of university age here to ‘learn English’ but simply stay to work.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  44. AP says:
    @Thulean Friend

    This suggests that Sweden’s PISA result is a fairly accurate depiction of ethnic Swedes.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  45. Bassarab says:
    @Mitleser

    Truly, Nerds will not inherit the earth.

    Hopefully Anatoly Karlin and others like him will realize this and begin to question their atheism and materialism and cease desiring to keep Russia in modernity and its attendant sterility.

    I would like to see him stressing other virtues for his people for being intelligent is not the only key to life. But hey that’s just me.

  46. melanf says:
    @jonni

    Finno-Ugrics are Asians.

    Oh, really? In Russia every year there is a competition “miss student of Finno-Ugria” among the girls of Finno-Ugric ethnic groups., where compete in knowledge of native language, ability to sing native songs, the ability to write poems in their native language etc. This is not a competition for big tits and long legs, but a competition for knowledge of native culture. Here are the contestants

    Karelians

    [MORE]

    Komi

    Udmurt

    Mordovians

    Mari

    Ugra

  47. melanf says:
    @melanf

    There is a simple test-put these photos on the site of American racists (only separately, not all together), and ask if you (as a white racist) to go on a date with a similar girl. I think the negative answer will be only on Ugra

    • Replies: @Rodolfo
  48. Mitleser says:
    @neutral

    • Replies: @songbird
  49. @Daniel Chieh

    Certainly we have a rich linguistic history. Oral tradition has been a major part of Irish culture going back 4000+ years. This must have imprinted on our linguistic intelligence over time, hence your medieval anecdote and the litany of famous authors, playwrights, poets, emerging from a small population.

    I would say we’re simply average when it comes to mathematics and science but undoubtedly there is some unusual aptitude for language here. I wonder if it helps explain the outsized success of the Irish diaspora in business, where interpersonal and communication skills are obviously very important.

  50. @jonni

    China Swede was a derogatory term used for Finnish immigrants in the United States during the early 1900s, particularly in Minnesota and Michigan.

    👱 = 👲

    Olli (Olof) Kiukkonen Kinkkonen (June 10, 1880 – September 18, 1918) was a Finnish-American dockworker and logger. He was lynched in Duluth, Minnesota on September 18, 1918.

  51. @AltSerrice

    You do have a highly motivated immigrant class borne out of selective immigration policies (the benefits of being an English-speaking island should never be discounted!). I wasn’t talking about just 15-16 year olds.

    • Replies: @AltSerrice
  52. @melanf

    Still- Finns do have some “Asiatic blood” at genetic level (as well as Hungarians, where we used to joke about their-supposedly- higher cheekbones).

  53. Some Guy says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Is this it?

    “However, low school attendance rates were adjusted. The formula used was PISA00k = PISA00-((100-PRP00)*2). The results of the adjustment were that countries with 90% attendance rate had 20 points subtracted; those with 80% attendance rate had 40 points subtracted. Other adjustments are conceivable.The adjustment formula used is based on the assumption that the scores follow a normal distribution from which the lower part has been deleted. For example, when the lowest 16%of a normally distributed sample with a mean IQ of 100 are missing, the mean resulting IQ will be 104–105 (or 529 on the scale used in PISA). The formula used subtracts 4.8 IQ-points or 32 points on the PISA scale from the measured average and leads to marginally larger adjustments than a formula that is based on the assumption that the presented scores follow a normal distribution. This is particularly true for extremely low school enrollment ratios, e.g. for 50% missing, the formula subtracts 15 IQ-points or 100 PISA-points, although in a normally distributed sample the resulting mean would be only about 12 IQ-points or 80 PISA-points higher. The assumption is that with very low school enrollment ratios, further factors such as poor nutrition and health care, low appreciation of education and of reading books, argumentation and thinking in everyday life, and intellectual simplicity of home environments and society will act to reduce IQ.” – http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/The-g-factor-of-international-cognitive-ability-comparisons-the-homogeneity-of-results-in-PISA-TIMSS-PIRLS-and-IQ-tests-across-nations.pdf

    Is there data on how each percentile scored by country? Assuming all the people who are absent would’ve scored below the median, I think one could accurately calculate which percentile would’ve been the median given 100% coverage, without assumptions of normally distributed scores in multi-ethnic countries.

    Of course, perhaps it’s mostly the smart fraction and dumb fraction that matters, and since the dumb fraction will be hard to measure given high absence, perhaps we should mainly pay attention to the smart fraction?

  54. @AP

    I’ve looked (page 21) at the native scores for reading. They break it down in three categories: 1st gen migrant, 2nd gen migrant and native. Even among the “natives” there will be some 3rd gen that are now mixed up with ethnic Swedes, but who are not separated out in the data.

    Estonia: 528
    Finland: 527
    Sweden: 525
    Canada: 525
    Germany: 519
    Korea: 515
    Poland: 514
    UK: 511
    US: 510(!)
    Norway: 509
    Denmark: 509
    Australia: 504
    Taiwan: 504
    Switzerland: 503
    France: 502
    Czech: 492

    Italy: 482
    Israel: 481 (and this with a paltry coverage ratio of just 81% – same as China)
    Hungary: 477
    Turkey: 467
    Slovakia: 460

    I can add that I guess that a significant share of 3rd gen turks probably depress Germany’s native score. My assumption is that they would rise to our current position if that wasn’t not the case. We also have a lot more 3rd gen migrants than Finland, who started their multiculturalist project about 25-30 years later than us, so my guess is that we’d probably reach a bit above them if we had their demographics.

    Sweden has one of the highest score differences in the whole of OECD between native-immigrants. Not surprisingly. Interestingly enough, the US’ 1st gen immigrants do quite decently (479). Ours are at 410, and those are the counted one. Had we had a more honest coverage ratio, the score differential would have shot up far more. This also shows that US migration policies have become progressively more cognitively selective since the turn of the century, despite the rhetoric. That is a big whitepill for US civic nationalists and a big blackpill for “US about to collapse” crowd.

    What I don’t understand is why Slovakia does so poorly. Gypsies cannot be the only answer, I doubt they are even counted. Their coverage ratio is only 86%, but they don’t have our large “newly arrived” population as an excuse.

    But yeah, this is why I am somewhat skeptical of the new methodology. I’m still looking for the US racial data to see if there are any significant Asian-White gaps, as there should be.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @utu
    , @reiner Tor
  55. songbird says:
    @Mitleser

    I imagine that there is a big push in Germany happening right now to 1.) lengthen the school day, and 2.) to end selective track education.

    I’ll bet young ethnic Germans parents are also talking about “good schools.”

  56. Rodolfo says:
    @melanf

    Finnish and Hungarian people are well accepted in the white nationalist comunity.

  57. Svevlad says:
    @Mitleser

    It’s averages, though

    You have the secret rare “high IQ breeder” types hidden in as well

  58. Found it.

    Reading:

    Math:

    100 points is one standard deviation. AE found about 1/2 SD difference in mean IQ based on NAEP scores. This is still too close to comfort, especially for math, where Asians show even higher proficiency on all the domestic data we got. Still, it is an improvement over the clown world results from 2015.

    I am still critical, but somewhat less so, of the 2018 edition. But their shockingly lax standards on coverage ratios is still a scholastic scandal. Letting in countries with coverage ratios as low as 46% should be a non-starter in any academic setting.

    • Replies: @alba
  59. utu says:
    @Thulean Friend

    “What I don’t understand is why Slovakia does so poorly. Gypsies cannot be the only answer, I doubt they are even counted. ” – Because sovok Beckows are in charge?

    • LOL: Thulean Friend
  60. https://news.gallup.com/poll/268847/americans-say-weigh-200-lbs-decade.aspx

    Disgusting body weight statistics from America. Fewer Americans now want to lose weight as well owing to the normalization of obesity.

    The only good news is that weight seems to be plateauing. Average body weight only increased from 174 to 178 pounds in the past decade.

    I really see no other cause for optimism either. Low carbohydrate diet enthusiasm peaked in the late 1990s, and the “paleo” trend peaked early in this decade. Keto and carnivory are enjoying moments currently, but these are too extreme for most people to succeed or even try them.

    The dietary establishment has given up on low fat dogma, but refuses to budge on saturated fat or cholesterol. Awful advice to constantly snack goes largely unchallenged despite some interest in intermittent fasting. Things could get even worse if the “plant-based” diet fad continues.

    Perhaps more significant than dietary issues is the widespread social acceptance of fatness. Normal weight people, especially women, are increasingly shamed for being “too skinny”. Healthy people are advised that they’re neurotic and have orthorexia. Moderately successful efforts have also been made to make chubby people socially regarded as sexually attractive. First the butt trend with women, and now the media is pushing the alleged desirability of “dad bods” in men.

    The good news is that it’s never been easier to stand out from the crowd.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Svevlad
    , @Brown boi
    , @AaronB
  61. @Jaichind

    Vietnam’s original PISA score place them near head to head with industrial countries. But some experts start to revise it to bring in line with VN’s higher dropout rate, that brought VN down to Eastern European levels.

    Still VN’s poorest student, who took part in PISA, still manage to beat the best ones from much wealthier countries.

    It will be much more interesting to see their scores in the early 2030s when VN reached same level of development like current China.

  62. Svevlad says:

    I started reading the siberian curse

    Dear god, these people are truly brainwashed. Muh free market muh free market muh markets hurrdurr

  63. @Thulean Friend

    Ah I believe we just misinterpreted each other, I was simply speaking in the context of the PISA tests (e.g. motivated immigrant kids scoring above average as in the USA, Canada, UK, etc) and assumed you were too. We do have a highly motivated adult immigrant class, but there is no effect on PISA results was my point.

  64. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AP

    Didn’t Volhynia perform at the Ukrainian average in regards to its academic performance, though?

    Also, what’s interesting is that Ukraine performs almost as well as Russia and Belarus here. Meanwhile, Serbia beats Romania and Bulgaria while Kazakhstan’s scores are really in the toilet this time around. I wonder why Kazakhstan severely underperformed this time around. Any thoughts on this?

  65. Svevlad says:

    Anyways, I really doubt the PISA tests mean too much. Countries will just put the system to getting the best scores and pretend they’re tough shit (this is never good long term, because, as in real life, acting like you’re tough shit means a shortened life span)

    I remember a friend of mine, had terrible grades, didn’t care about school. Goes to america, gets excellent grades, says it’s piss easy. Don’t know about other countries, but I think I heard from someone that the same applies.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  66. Svevlad says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Fine by me tbh, anything that increases the total number of fat chicks is good by me.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  67. utu says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Countries where 2nd gen immigrants perform better than non-immigrants

    Macau 512 528
    Hong Kong 529 533
    Canada 525 535
    Australia 504 523
    NZ 510 518
    Singapore 546 587
    USA 510 512
    Israel 481 493
    Russia. 480 491

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  68. @Svevlad

    This here is a man prepared for the apocalypse.

  69. @utu

    No particular puzzles here.

    * Countries with cognitive elitist immigration systems.
    * US average brought down by Negroes, so its immigrant mix – lower IQ Latin Americans and high quality Asian/European immigrants – are competitive.
    * Russia’s 2nd generation “immigrants” as of today are overwhelmingly ethnic Russian repats from the Near Abroad. Especially those who had the means and initiative to repatriate.
    * Israel’s 2nd generation immigrants now would probably be primarily Russian Jews.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  70. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I think Israel one is just a trivial explanation. It will be higher, because the second-generation immigrant sample is likely not including Arabic-speaking students (unless they also test family-reunion immigrants from the West Bank/Gaza).

    Arabic-speaking students in Israel were not very good in the PISA tests last year – probably with Bedouin students lowering the Arabic-speaking school average (although they are now sending a lot of Bedouin to Hebrew-speaking schools in Southern Israel).

    Second-generation immigrants sample score Utu posts, is lower than the general Hebrew-school PISA test score. So immigrants to Israel are worse at PISA tests, than Hebrew speaking Israeli students, but higher score than Arabic-speaking Israeli students.

    https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israeli-students-consistently-behind-developed-world-study-shows-609729

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @Mr. XYZ
    , @utu
  71. @Anatoly Karlin

    BSJZ has ~181m in total. Japan has ~126m in total. US population is ~329m.

  72. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    You can read the literature which OECD produce.

    Some of their ideas are interesting – for example, this idea to test how well students can identify fake news.
    https://www.tes.com/news/chinese-students-better-spotting-fake-news-pisa

    On the other hand, the questions in previous maths tests look really incompetent (just testing cultural conformity, rather than knowledge).

    • Replies: @songbird
  73. Rodolfo says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Ok. But why Sweden was so behind Finland in previous editions and in the 2018 edition the scores are close? Is it also also a matter of sampling?

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  74. melanf says:

    By the way, who wants to test themselves on IQ? Solve mathematical task

    The Hare is in the center of a round pond, on the Bank of which there is a Wolf. The Hare swims well, and the Wolf does not know how to swim, but the speed of the Wolf on the shore is four times greater than the speed of the Hare in the water. But the Hare runs on land faster than the Wolf. How can the Нare escape from pond in this situation?

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @Brown boi
    , @Svevlad
  75. @Rodolfo

    I cannot give you any definitive answer, but here are my guesstimates.

    1. The so-called “PISA shock” that we got in 2012. We had a steadily declining trend from 2000 already but it hit a nadir in 2012 and it shocked the system. Germany had a similar moment earlier. I think melanf’s description of education systems being designed to score highly on PISA applies here for us. Sweden is pretty obsessed with PISA. Today it has been impossible to escape the news. In every bus, metro, at work, at home, on every major news outlet.

    2. Finland has paid its teachers very handsomely for a long time and being a teacher is a prestige occupation (comparatively speaking to Sweden). Here, when I was a kid, you could even have substitute teachers which were quite literally taken from the streets. I had a bodyguard as a sub teacher once and a bouncer. I’m not making this shit up. Parents were outraged but we had a lot of fun listening to their crazy stories. It was just for a few weeks, but it goes to show you how lax things were. Today, demands on teachers are much higher and there has been an effort to raise the wages (mixed success).

    3. Sweden had a lot of (de)forms in the educational school system, dressed up as improvements. Just as Sweden has been very liberal on many issues, so it was in the school policies. You know all this talk about “soft skills” and “creativity” and “self-learning”. It made a huge impact here. We started to slow and then undo these deforms in the mid-2000s but most of them weren’t done by 2010-11 or so. It then takes some years to fully filter through.

    I won’t even mention demographics, which are obviously significantly different between the two countries, but I don’t think it can fully explain the difference. Sweden had many deforms in the educational sector starting from the early 1990s which did a lot of damage. Some scars are still not fully healed.

  76. Epigon says:
    @melanf

    velocity of wolf on coast = max. 4 * velocity of hare in water

    As the hare swims in water with velocity v, the wolf runs with a maximum of 4 * v on coast.

    In angular velocity terms, the angular velocity of wolf could match that of hare in water when the distance of hare from pond center is more than 1/4 of pond radius.

    If we assume the wolf matches the hare’s
    movement at all times, the the hare should swim at less than 1/4 of pond radius until it gets to a point where the wolf is on the opposite side (the wolf can’t match his angular velocity at below r/4 and lags as a consequence) – the hare should swim immediately to the coast – 3r/4 remaining. The wolf has to cover r*Pi.
    The velocity difference is 4x

    3r/4 / v < r*Pi / 4v
    0.75 < 0.785

    As the time needed for hare to swim to coast is lower than time needed by wolf to run half pond circumference, and once on the ground, the hare is faster than the wolf, the hare will escape.

    Did I assume too much in wolf’s moving pattern or misunderstand the case?

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @utu
  77. alba says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    100% agree irish people have an innate talent with words

  78. Brown boi says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Girls doing squats to get a fat ass isn’t the same as trigglypuff

    Fkn homo

  79. melanf says:
    @Epigon

    Bravo, the right solution! If the AP will doubt in your intelligence-ask him to solve a similar mathematical problem.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
  80. I’m surprised how high the UK scores considering the native British are widely considered among the dumbest people in Europe.

    I would have expected Britain to be low down the list in Europe because the general perception in Britain is that British state education is low standard and Europeans are much more intellectual and academic than British people are. I find it very surprising how well Britain compares with the rest of the world because British people in general do not perceive themselves to be a well educated or academic country at all.

    • Troll: LondonBob
    • Replies: @alba
    , @Bardon Kaldian
  81. @Dmitry

    I don’t care about these tests, but here are the numbers:
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/global-test-widest-educational-gap-between-hebrew-arabic-speaking-israeli-kids/
    …………….
    In the PISA tests, Hebrew speakers scored 506 points in reading skills, the same as the previous assessment. However, Arabic speakers scored just 362 points, a drop of 29 points.

    The OECD average is 487 points, with the overall Israeli average at 470 points.

    In mathematics, Hebrew speakers remained at 490 points but Arabic speakers scored 379, a drop of 12 points. The OECD average is 489, with Israel’s average at 463, down seven points.

    Finally, in the sciences, Hebrew-speaking Israeli students remained at 491 points, while Arab students dropped 26 points to 375. The OECD average is 489 points and Israel’s average is 462, down five points since 2015.

    Overall, PISA showed a gap of 144 points in reading, 111 points in mathematics, and 116 points for sciences between Hebrew and Arabic speakers.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    , @Thulean Friend
  82. alba says:
    @Brexit Brexit

    so this is the inteligence of the anti brexiters?

    lol

  83. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Overall, PISA showed a gap of 144 points in reading, 111 points in mathematics, and 116 points for sciences between Hebrew and Arabic speakers.

    Must be systemic racism at work in Israel. After all, what else can it be? /s

  84. @Brexit Brexit

    Non-intellectual doesn’t mean non-intelligent.

  85. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Dmitry

    So immigrants to Israel are worse at PISA tests, than Hebrew speaking Israeli students,

    This is ironic considering that a lot of immigrants to Israel are Soviet Ashkenazi Jews while a lot of native Israeli Jews are Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews.

  86. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AP

    So do you agree that Ukraine is probably equal to southern ethnic Russia?

    Yep.

  87. AaronB says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I know a mother who constantly pressures her 14 yo daughter to eat because she is terrified of anorexia. The daughter is chubby and knows it, and desperately wants to eat less. But her mother instantly notices when she does that, and puts enormous emotional pressure to eat more. Tells her she will get stomach aches and health problems if she doesn’t eat more.

    Everyone in the family is overweight. The mother insists the 14 yo is at perfect weight.

    In America, with 70% overweight, in an overweight family – the real fear is anorexia.

    If I try and intervene, the mother panics – there is very real anxiety there.

    • Replies: @Svevlad
  88. Svevlad says:
    @AaronB

    Aight, i retract my statement of whatever results in increase of fat girls is good, that’s extremely shite and results in bad mentality

    • Replies: @AaronB
  89. @Bardon Kaldian

    Just remember that ‘Hebrew speakers’ does not include Haredim/ultra-Orthodox, which do not even take the test. This is why Israel has a fairly low coverage ratio (81%). If they had been included, the scores would have gone down even more.

    I wrote a longish comment on Israel’s demographics some time back. The basic story is that “3rd world populations” – Arabs and Haredim – are massively growing at the expense of the non-Orthodox jewish population which is that country’s economic engine. Israel’s already increasing brain drain is likely to get worse as these 3rd world populations get larger and larger and the burden of economic activity falls on ever fewer shoulders.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
    , @AaronB
    , @CM
  90. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    PISA seems like such a missed opportunity, IMO.

    What one really desires is a HBD-centric test and survey designed by the likes of Karlin, Sailer, and Cochran. Not only for comparing countries, which in itself is very interesting, but perhaps for internally comparing personality types of students – nerds vs. jocks, etc. And I think it would be really fascinating to ask the girls how many children they intend to have, to collate it by test score – and then one can hope in an authoritarian country like China, a longitudinal study, where they follow up one and two decades later.

    But to read the actual survey questions – at least the ones they ask in the US – it is very boring stuff, almost like when they ask you how many TV’s you have on the census.

    This is the problem when the test seems designed mainly to measure development and not to entertain us, or to ask (and perhaps answer) existential questions about society, like why smart people not having many kids.

  91. Svevlad says:
    @melanf

    Ugh, the last time I studied I studied physics was 4 years ago and that was a basic level, so imma eyeball it

    The hare should go straight forward toward the exact opposite side of the wolf. The wolf shall start going around the pond. Depending on which side the wolf takes, the rabbit should then either start slowly curving his path to the left or right (opposite of the wolf, of course). The closer it gets to the shore the more it should turn.

    This should allow it to get to land just in time, and escape from the wolf

  92. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Couldn’t brain drain plus severe overpopulation in Israel ironically have a positive outcome in setting the stage for eugenic fertility (Malthusian selection) to reemerge there earlier? If so, we could see a Farewell to Alms effect in Israel similar to what occurred in England during the second millennium when its smartest people apparently consistently reproduced more than its duller people did.

  93. @Epigon

    The average is largely irrelevant, since vast majority of workforce will not be thinkers but doers, following orders and implementing ideas devised by others.

    • Replies: @Svevlad
  94. alba says:
    @Thulean Friend

    the asian american results are out of the table
    in reading they score 20 point more than euro american and 50 points more than japan and korea and even the highly selected chinese for the smartest areas are bellow them.

    selective inmigration ?

  95. AaronB says:
    @Thulean Friend

    But Israel’s high IQ smart fraction is also the only one in the developed world that is also growing.

    Sweden’s is shrinking 🙂

    In 20 years from now, Sweden will have fewer smart people – Israel will actually have more.

    So no – the burden of economic activity will not be falling on fewer shoulders, but on more.

    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  96. AaronB says:
    @Svevlad

    Yeah, whatever is making Americans fat, it isn’t healthy.

    Anxiety seems to be a big part of it. Also not eating in a natural way, according to appetite and taste, but always eating according to some scientific theory of what is good for us. Fatness seems to be nature’s way of telling us to listen to our bodies.

    People in thin countries always eat naturally, according to appetite and taste, and never according to some scientific theory.

    And also because Americans are utilitarian and don’t care about aesthetics and other “intangibles” – after all, beauty isn’t utilitarian.

    The good news is that America is changing – a wealthy class that appreciates the finer intangible things in life is emerging.

    In Britain, it used to be said there are two nations that have nothing in common – the rich and the poor. And it was well known that no one was more coarse and loutish than the British lower classes, while no one was more elegant, refined, and educated than the British aristocrats.

    A similar arrangement is emerging in America, more extreme than in other countries.

  97. CM says:

    These results are quite different from TIMSS. Turkey is over-performing in this, especially considering over half their students scored the lowest benchmark possible in TIMSS, but an equal percent scored the highest benchmark as countries like Serbia and Bulgaria.

    Malta is scoring low compared to the past too.

  98. CM says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Arab Christians in Israel do quite well though. In fact their high school students performed better in exams than the Jews.

  99. Croatia police take unusual initiative re migration

    Croat police officer sees black man, asks him for papers … 2nd black man steps up to support fellow Nigerian, also doesn’t have papers … call for back-up, a police van arrives … the police drive the Nigerians out of town to the forested border with Bosnia-Herzegovina, pull out a gun, and tell the Nigerians to start walking into Bosnia, where they end up in an international migrant camp
    https://zurnal.info/novost/22588/croatian-police-kidnapped-nigerian-students-and-transferred-them-to-bih

    • LOL: Denis
    • Replies: @Mr. XYZ
  100. alba says:
    @AaronB

    good news for the jews and hell for everybody else and america itself

    america was a nation of adventurous builders not a nation of merchants.

    the america you are describing is basically the post 1960 america or in other words when jews displaced wasp as the ruling class ,america is the children that jews have been nurturing for 70 years and with the end of the old wasp elite the space dream died with them sustitued by a much more mercantilized souless and pragmatic society .

    is not strange that in the japanese ,european or even indian caste system merchants were considered the lowest form of life , you only need to look at the current america to understand why.

  101. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Brabantian

    Illegal Nigerian students in Croatia?

  102. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AaronB

    But Israel’s high IQ smart fraction is also the only one in the developed world that is also growing.

    But if the West is poaching it, then this is going to be less good news for Israel than would have otherwise been the case.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  103. @Blinky Bill

    Yeah, but he was lynched not because he was a Finn, but because he refused to fight in World War 1.

    Which is actually one of the dumbest possible reasons to lynch someone.

    Imagine being so gay that you support Woodrow Wilson’s war effort. The people who did it must have been proto-boomers.

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  104. @alba

    As an Anglophobe* who believes firmly that this country went to Hell precisely when our Eastern Establishment forced us to abandon a measure of foreign independence for alliance with the Whore of London, I agree completely.

    Also, I am of middle class origins and will probably never be wealthy. I am, young, thin, and healthy, and I am attracted to normal and healthy women.

    In a past century, I would have been a smallholding farmer, but American elites decided in the 1930s to destroy the farmer, the basis of our republic, in favor of becoming an oligarchy. (And I don’t want to hear any bullshit about “mechanization” either) Now I am just an “Average Joe.” But an Average Joe could get a nice wife – until after the 1970s. Now, it’s hard. Let no one get false impressions: it is immensely difficult for a normal man to find any normal woman in this cursed Judeo-Protestant country. But now! Now you add in the fat part, and it’s simply absurd how hard it is to find dates, let alone wives.

    The problem is simple: yes, it’s easier for me to attract some quality women because I, unlike most people today, am not a disgusting fatass. On the other hand, there are simply far fewer opportunities than there reasonably ought to be.

    However, I can’t complain too much – at least I’m not a disgusting fat slob or, worse, a rich Democrat whore, a slave of this Jewish imperium, whose soul is bound for perdition in spite of their good looks and health.

    * or perhaps I should say I’m a Whigophobe. It was the English Whigs who forced the High Tories to abandon English identity: https://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2019/10/21/the-tory-parliamentary-struggle-to-preserve-english-national-identity-1753-1858/

    • Replies: @Matra
  105. @AaronB

    The good news is that America is changing – a wealthy class that appreciates the finer intangible things in life is emerging.

    Let me re-write this to make it more reflective of reality:

    The bad news is that America has changed – it has a wealthy class that appreciates the finer intangible things in life. This class profits from an economic and social system that purposefully creates an ever duller underclass of people who are unable to understand or enjoy the finer things in life and who exist simply to consume more high fructose corn syrup.

    I believe firmly that there ought always to be an elite in any society. But elites ought to use their wealth and power to help others live more virtuous lives. We did once generally subscribe to such a concept here in America. No more.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  106. AaronB says:
    @alba

    Sorry, my friend. This is the way of the world.

    In America, a new elite is emerging. It is Jewish, elite White, and Asian. Increasingly, these three elements are intermarrying and fusing into one body with a common identity.

    Over time, this new elite will become a semi hereditary caste – but always open to genuine fresh talent from the lower classes.

    This is a good thing – over time, this elite will develop a sense of obligation towards the deplorable poor. I agree that they should be treated better. But they really are deplorable. It’s not really a question of money, either.

  107. AaronB says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    As the new elite solidifies and grows comfortable, I believe it will grow more benevolent and develop a more natural relationship with the masses.

    A certain amount of class warfare and exploitation is inevitable, but the lack of a clear hierarchy and the myths of democracy make class exploitation especially acute today.

  108. AaronB says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    The West isn’t really poaching this talent.

    Today, talent is more globally mobile, but most Israeli talent retains a strong connection to Israel and move back and forth between Tel Aviv and other global tech and science centers, perhaps creating the illusion of brain drain. But it is really cross fertilization and leveraging that is of tremendous benefit to Israel.

    Israel seems only to be getting wealthier and more technologically capable.

    What’s more, the significance of a smart fraction that is actually growing is huge. It means these talented people are tremendously motivated and optimistic, more vital and likely to have more of an impact, than a smart fraction that is too lacklustre about life to reproduce.

    The contrast with a country like Sweden is instructive. Traditionally, the lusty and crude lower classes reproduce most, while a healthy and optimistic upper class reproduce less, but still a decent amount.

    In Sweden, the lusty lower classes are so depressed they actually reproduce less than the upper class. But the upper class is also too depressed to reproduce itself.

    The entire country has lost faith in life.

    In Israel, all classes are optimistic about the future, and reproduce at high levels.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @reiner Tor
  109. Matra says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    it is immensely difficult for a normal man to find any normal woman in this cursed Judeo-Protestant country.

    Your fellow Catholics did not have this problem when America was still American (ie., Anglo-Protestant). Looks like your hundred year alliance with Jews and every other malcontented minority against the big bad WASPs didn’t work out well for you guys. Should’ve let things be.

  110. @AP

    But why though? Transcarpathia has more Balkaners but it also has more Central/Western Europeans, it should be about the same

    • Replies: @AP
  111. @AaronB

    As the new elite solidifies and grows comfortable, I believe it will grow more benevolent and develop a more natural relationship with the masses.

    I can’t fathom why you assume “the elite” isn’t already solid and comfortable.

    I also disagree that there’s anything particularly “new” about them either.

    In general, your comments strike me as almost incredibly naive.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  112. @Anatoly Karlin

    Both Belarus and Ukraine had far larger brain drain on them than Russia… Much of which was directed towards Russia.

  113. @Matra

    Looks like your hundred year alliance with Jews and every other malcontented minority against the big bad WASPs didn’t work out well for you guys.

    You are, as they say, full of it.

    Our hundred year alliance with the Jews? That’s cute.

    There was, in the whole history of this country, only one institution to consistently and decisively stand up to smut in the movies – i.e. Jewish control of Hollywood – and it was the Catholic Church. Hollywood’s subsequent “golden age” was made possible because serious and powerful Catholic threats to boycott smutty movies forced the Jews in California to make relatively artful movies. (I have to give partial credit to Protestants in the Midwest, like the Zondervan people in western Michigan, but it was the Catholics in their industrial ghettos who made the big push. Both of these two types of people were largely destroyed politically by Rooseveltism and subsequent subversion.)

    Moreover, let me ask you something: who was it who the disastrous proposed American entry into both world wars? Was it the Catholics? Or was it “the WASPs”?

    As David Carlin argues in his book, ‘The Decline and Fall of the Catholic Church in America,’ we failed to be prepared for the opening of our “ghetto” to the world. But that mistake, though celebrated and abetted by outside forces (like Henry Luce), was ours alone; we did not compromise with the Jews. They sought to destroy us, not ally with us.

    I don’t particularly care to recount the whole history of this country’s relationship with Jewry, but unlike England, which once had Protestants (The High Tories) even nominally opposed to Jewish domination, this country’s Protestants have always tended to be exceptionally ignorant of history, and all too fond of “pragmatism.” I do not know of a single Protestant equivalent to Father Charles Coughlin. It was not the Catholics who are responsible for this country’s disastrous decisions in the middle of the century. Historical facts will not support you.

  114. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    who was it who proposed the disastrous American entries into both world wars?

    corrected typo

  115. alba says:
    @AaronB

    call me weaboo but this is the way of the world

    View post on imgur.com

    and when you break the natural order grotesque creatures like america appear in the horizon ,the age of the warrior is not over it has only let enought space for the tumor to manifest itself in all its decadent perversity and purificate it once and for all so a new golden age can born .

    • Replies: @AaronB
  116. AaronB says:
    @alba

    You’re not entirely wrong, but you may not realize that under today’s conditions many of our tech and business titans are in fact warriors.

    What the founder of Uber had to do to get established is warrior. Trump business style is warrior. Zuckerberg business style is warrior. Amazon business style is warrior.

    You just have a hard time recognizing warrior under modern technological conditions. Our elite are not at all the traditional conception of a merchant.

    Today, the merchant mentality is far more characteristic of Germany, Japan, and China, selling merchandise, cars, electronics, and cheap manufacturing, then it is of America, based on boldly conquering the heights in various fields, disrupting established ways of doing things, etc.

    There is a reason America is still on top.

    • Replies: @alba
    , @Nodwink
  117. AaronB says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    The decadent and effete WASP elite has only been decisively defeated and replaced a decade or two after WW2.

    That ruling class had totally lost its vitality and will to power, and thus its legitimacy and right to rule.

    The new elite is still taking shape, and is only a few decades in the making. It takes time.

    Don’t feel bad about the WASPS. Ruling elites always grow effete, and need to be replaced from time to time.

  118. Matra says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    The Ellis Islander political coalition (Judeo-Catholic) for more immigration, which began in the late 1800s, was a greater factor in American decline than the two world wars.

  119. dux.ie says:
    @Epigon

    > The average is largely irrelevant … the top 1%-10% comparison between countries would be much more interesting. I suspect East Asian average superiority would disappear without a trace in these comparisons.

    See

    #Table I.B1.5
    #Mean score and variation in mathematics performance
    #|Mean score | Standard deviation | Percentiles
    #|5th | 10th | 25th | Median (50th) | 75th | 90th | 95th |

    the average Math Score for the country’s 95 percentile smart fraction

    Rank | MathPctl95 | Country
    1 716 | BSJZ.China
    2 713 | Singapore
    3 696 | HongKong.China
    4 686 | ChineseTaipei
    5 685 | Macao.China
    6 684 | Korea
    7 668 | Switzerland
    8 664 | Japan
    9 664 | Netherlands
    10 661 | Canada
    11 661 | Poland
    12 657 | Estonia

    15 651 | UnitedKingdom
    17 650 | Germany
    18 647 | Sweden
    27 639 | Finland
    28 638 | France
    30 636 | OECDtotsample
    32 634 | OECDavg
    33 632 | Israel
    36 629 | UnitedStates
    38 627 | Russia
    40 625 | Ireland
    43 619 | VietNam

    • Agree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @utu
    , @utu
  120. AP says:
    @Belarusian Dude

    It was part of Hungary rather than Austria like Galicia. Galicia achieved full literacy of school kids by 1910, a generation or more earlier than Transcarpathia. Transcarpathia still has the lowest % of people with post-secondary education in Ukraine. So I suspect its PISA score would be lowest in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Mr. XYZ
    , @AnonymousUkr
  121. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    From the JP article you linked:

    Israeli pupils recorded a mean score of 470 points in reading examinations, below the OECD average of 487 points. While Hebrew-speakers maintained their previous score of 506 points in the latest examinations, the performance of Arabic-speaking pupils slipped by 29 points to 362.

    First this tells us that there are 3 times more Hebrew speakers than Arab speakers (0.75:0.25)

    Second the numbers we get from the Table II.3 on page 21 (click on the bottom of page 21 to get table in Excel) in the link from Hindu Swede:

    Non-imigrants 481
    2nd gen 493
    1st gen 398

    and with the info that 16.2% are immigrants

    seem not to add up. They should break the numbers into Hebrew and Arabic non-imigrants and immigrants but I thought they do not have significant number of Arabic immigrants and assumed that the 1st and 2nd gen immigrants must be Hebrew speakers and thus if we compare them with the JP number of 506 (where JP got it form?) we may conclude that immigrants while better than Arabic speakers are worse than native Hebrew speakers which is not what AK was or I were thinking.

    Anyway, when it comes to Jewish matters it is always so more complicate by Jewish obfuscations of their shenanigans that a goyishe kop can’t figure it out.

  122. alba says:
    @AaronB

    is not only a question of WHAT you want but HOW you want and that choice end up configuring a completely different society , the competitive nature and the will of power of the merchants doent make him a warrior but the values he embrace and the way he life to achieve that success and no im not speaking of brute forze

    maybe the modern equivalent to america would be carthago that founded economic colonies all over the mediterrane and made them depedant of the capital not as much because of their warrior ethos but their economic slavement to the capital

    in the end the natural order prevailed
    america delanda est

    • Replies: @AaronB
  123. AP says:
    @AP

    Compare Czechia (part of Austria) to Slovakia (part of Hungary).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  124. AaronB says:
    @alba

    The traditional contempt for the merchant was based on the fact that he did not take large risks or face danger. He was petty. He played it safe and had no grand designs.

    Anyone who takes risks and courts danger has the mentality of a warrior, ipso facto.

    In Greece and Rome, a distinction was made between the petty merchant, who was not respected, and the great merchant who risked all on grand designs, who was considered the equal to the warrior.

    In modern times, especially since the advent of nuclear weapons, its hard to achieve great power and distinction through a military career. The warrior spirit must find expression in other fields.

    Israel has been to some extent an exception to this, and its greatest warriors have often gone into business. Ehud Barak, Israel’s most decorated soldier, went into business after his army career and said that he found it thrillingly similar to warfare.

    This guys story is typical for Israel. From elite military warrior to elite business warrior and tech titan – https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2013/05/21/the-tech-innovator-who-almost-killed-saddam-hussein/amp/

    Now, all the grotesquerie you see in modern America is ephemeral – it is the birth pangs of a new order. The old Protestant culture has become rigid and sclerotic and no longer vital. It needed to die. What will replace it has not yet fully come into being. The current insanity is a transitional phase – necessary to break down the old culture. But it isn’t final. The new culture however will be considerably freer and more interesting than the dull Puritanism that had lost vitality.

    • Troll: utu, Colin Wright
    • Replies: @alba
  125. dux.ie says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    > The Chinese results are ofc pretty worthless.

    Go read up on statistical sampling methodology. The PISA country sample are not random sample but follow statistical sampling theory to give a representative country sample that is a valid proxy of the country cognitive profile.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(statistics)#Sampling_frame

    Beside, the PISA 2012 Shanghai sampling was validated by a US company Westat, I suspect OECD will still continuing sub-contractng the Chinese country sampling to the company in the country that make the loudest accusation,

    https://oecdedutoday.com/are-the-chinese-cheating-in-pisa-or-are-we-cheating-ourselves/

    They didn’t bother to read the PISA 2012 Technical Background Annex, which shows there was no cheating, whatsoever, involved. Nor did they speak with the experts who had drawn the samples or with the international auditors who had carefully reviewed and validated the sample for Shanghai and those of other countries.

    http://ncee.org/2013/12/response-to-the-brookings-institution-attack-on-pisa/

    The fact is that the sample for the province of Shanghai was drawn in full accordance with the international standards established for PISA and similar international surveys. The adherence to these standards was validated by Westat, a U.S. based company contracted by the OECD to oversee the sampling and test administration in the countries and economies taking part in PISA.

    In fact, when we compare the performance of the 10 percent most disadvantaged schools in the United States with the 10 percent most disadvantaged schools in Shanghai, we find that the disadvantaged students in the Shanghai schools far outperform those in the United States. And Shanghai’s middle school students – migrants included – outperformed the high school students in Massachusetts on PISA.

    The US 2012 PISA sample only came from 3 states, Connecticut, Florida and Massachusetts, nothing from the MidWest or Pacific Coast, nothing from the southern significant Black states. Using your assertions, the US 2012 PISA sample might also be biased. Again, go read up on how an representative sample resembling the national cognitive profile can be derived.

    From the US PISA FAQ, the US consultant Westat select the schools for every participated countries, and the Australian organization ACER select the students for every participated countries. If it is so easy to fudge the sample why did India withrew from the PISA survey??

    4. How does PISA select a representative sample of students?

    Step 1

    To provide valid estimates of student achievement and
    characteristics, PISA selects a sample of students that
    represents the full population of 15-year-old students in each
    participating country or education system
    . This population is
    defined internationally as 15-year-olds (15 years and 3 months to
    16 years and 2 months at the beginning of the testing period)
    attending both public and private schools in grades 7-12. Each
    country or education system submits a sampling frame to the
    consortium of organizations responsible for the implementation of
    PISA 2012 internationally. Westat, a survey research firm in
    Rockville, Maryland, contracted by the OECD, then validates each
    country or education system’s frame.

    Step 2

    Once a sampling frame is validated, Westat draws a scientific
    random sample of a minimum of 150 schools from each frame with
    two replacement schools for each original school
    , unless there
    are less than 150 schools, in which case all schools would be
    sampled. A minimum of 50 schools were sampled for benchmarking
    participants (e.g., U.S. states that participated in 2012). The
    list of selected schools, both original and replacement, is
    delivered (from Westat via OECD) to each education system’s PISA national center.
    Countries and education systems do not draw their own samples.

    Step 3

    Each country/education system is responsible for recruiting the
    sampled schools. They begin with the original sample and only use
    the replacement schools if an original school refuses to
    participate. In accordance with PISA guidelines, replacement
    schools are identified by assigning the two schools neighboring
    the sampled school in the frame as substitutes to be used in
    instances where an original sampled school refuses to
    participate. Replacement schools are required to be in the same
    implicit stratum (i.e., have similar demographic characteristics)
    as the sampled school.
    A minimum participation rate of 65 percent
    of schools from the original sample of schools is required for a
    country or education system’s data to be included in the
    international database.

    Step 4

    After schools are sampled and agree to participate, students are
    sampled. Each country/education system submits student listing
    forms containing all age-eligible students for each of their
    schools to ACER, an education research firm in Australia and the
    lead organization of the PISA 2012 international consortium, for
    student level sampling.

    Step 5

    ACER carefully reviews the student lists and uses sophisticated
    software to perform data validity checks to compare each list
    against what is known of the schools (e.g., expected enrollment,
    gender distribution) and PISA eligibility requirements (e.g.,
    grade and birthday ranges). The selected student samples are then
    sent back to each national center. Unlike school sampling,
    students are not sampled with replacement.

    Step 6

    Schools inform students of their selection to participate on
    assessment day. Student participation must be at least 80 percent
    for a country’s/education system’s data to be reported by the
    OECD.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  126. utu says:
    @dux.ie

    Interesting! Ireland went down and Israel and Russia went up. Dmitri and Karlin, respectively should be happy. And Poland, Estonia and Canada pretty much unchanged whether it is by the mean or by the 95 percentile ranking position.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  127. Is I E Irodov ‘s Problems in General Physics still used in Russian high schools ?

  128. @melanf

    Is IE Irodov problems in general physics still used in Russian high schools?

    • Replies: @melanf
  129. Anon 2 says:

    Poland is the top performer in Europe among normal-sized countries.
    Estonia, Finland, and Ireland (average population about 4 million!) are
    too small to draw any inferences. Poland is large enough to have normal-
    sized hinterlands and it does have an underclass.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  130. @AP

    First, the Hungarian-majority regions are in the bottom quarter of poverty. These are 2 out of 40 counties. Also, the ethnic Hungarian vote share has been at 6% since ethnic votes were allowed in 1990. Hence, the weight of the Hungarians cannot be more than 5-6%.

    Second, since 2017, more Romanian children are born in Western Europe than in Romania. Yes, PISA tests older children, but emigration did not start last year. Only retards are breeding at home. That, of course, include the highly performing Hungarian-speaking retards, who could have moved to Hungary, rather than whining abut muh rights, were they not severely retarded.

    Your post is reminiscent of the old joke about the superiority of the Soviets. Every country had midgets, but USSR had the tallest midget in the world. What’s so special about the Hungarians, when their homeland is at Israel level?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  131. @Anon 2

    Estonia’s population is around 1 million, 25% of which is ethnic Russian underclass.

  132. The Russian soul is very Sikh-like – a love of egoless martyrdom, a mystical streak in Hesychasm, an upbeat, boisterous martial culture with an undercurrent of melancholy.

    Brahmin-Parsi (mother) friend responded with this when I mentioned this Russian Blonde (most beautiful girl I’ve seen) who liked Sikh bois (Turban + Beard)

    Our own AK is like the Panjabi AK.
    Never posts enough..

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  133. @AaronB

    ‘In Israel, all classes are optimistic about the future, and reproduce at high levels.’

    That’s why forty percent want to leave.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  134. Swedish-language high schools dominate best results list in Finland

    7 out of the top 10 best high-schools in their national sample (350) are Swedish-language schools. Fenno-Swedes are around 5% of the Finnish population. Pretty remarkable. The reasons are two-fold. First, it is easier to learn English as a Swede than as a Finn. Something Jarkko already mentioned in passing when discussing clerical literacy when taught in Old English and Old German.

    Second, and perhaps more interestingly:

    Another special feature of Swedish-language upper secondary schools that may be significant in attaining high rankings is the close social network within most schools.

    Since Swedish is the native language of only 5.2 percent of the population, there are far fewer Swedish-language daycare centres, primary and secondary schools. Because of this, by the time pupils enter upper secondary school they already known many of their peers.

    “Indeed this is evident here. Katedralskolan is in Turku where we have only one Swedish-language middle school, which is where most of our pupils come from,” notes Marianne Pärnänen
    Pamela Granskog also sees advantages in being part of a small school community.

    “It may be that that if most of the other pupils are familiar and some are friends, it’s supportive. You have a network backing you that helps you keep up. This kind of social network supports young people. If someone is falling behind, the network finds them and is able to pick them up and encourage them,” says Granskog.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  135. @Brown Boiii

    Punjabis are stereotyped as more masculine than most other Indians. Sikhs are notoriously connotated with the armed forces in India, perhaps even more than Rajputs, in no small part because Sikhs are often much taller. One can only imagine the terrified anguish any Hinducuck feels when confronted with Sikhs.

    OTOH, this masculine culture has its downsides. Punjab is engulfed is a drug crisis, so much so that a perfectly decent movie was made about it a few years ago.

    One thing I don’t understand is why do so many Punjabis choose Canada in particular. A huge share of Indo-Canadians are Punjabis.

    • Replies: @Brown Boiii
  136. Every Olympic gold medallist in men’s water polo since 2000 was born within the marked area.

    What’s up with Balkans+Hungary and water polo?

  137. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Smart and educated people in Israel are having more children than in any other developed country.

    Clearly, something about life in Israel makes smart people very happy and optimistic about life.

    Whatever that quality is, it is lacking in Western Europe.

    I think Europe should send teams to study Israel to find out what makes people happy and optimistic. But part of being depressed is being too apathetic to do anything about it.

  138. utu says:
    @dux.ie

    Could you also extract reading and science 95 percentile data? I can’t locate Table I.B1.5 in PISA materials.

    • Replies: @dux.ie
  139. Mr. XYZ says:
    @AP

    Might the smartest Subcarpathians have moved to Galicia over the last 150+ years? After all, there is more to do in Galicia than in Subcarpathia, no? It certainly doesn’t have a huge city comparable to Lviv, after all.

  140. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    I thought you were not so stupid about this topic. High score in PISA is not very useful, especially for maths – as PISA maths exam is testing a kind of cultural conformity, or perhaps cultural intelligence, rather than maths knowledge.

    If Russia is improving in maths in PISA, we know this is not a sign of anything useful, as the proportion of students studying maths declines each year, and the even the split the exam.

    Maths education in Russia – including proportion of students studying maths – is collapsing, in a disastrous way. However, it is collapsing from a high level. Until recently, Russia had one of the highest maths education at school level in the world, good textbooks, exams, high participation, etc.

    In Israel, maths education has been reportedly improving (however this improvement was from a very low participation level).
    https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Record-number-of-students-pursuing-high-level-math-in-Israel-480944

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  141. utu says:

    Dmitry, when I said that Israel and Russia went up I meant that they moved up comparing to their means, meaning their smart fractions are better (in international ranking) than their means. Did you parents ever told you were dull?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  142. @Thulean Friend

    What I don’t understand is why Slovakia does so poorly. Gypsies cannot be the only answer, I doubt they are even counted. Their coverage ratio is only 86%, but they don’t have our large “newly arrived” population as an excuse.

    Some of those missing (5%?) are ethnic Hungarians. Learning Indo-European languages is roughly as difficult for Magyar speakers as it is the other way around, and Slavic languages are probably the most difficult among all the Indo-European languages. Or they will simply underperform, dragging down the average.

    I also wouldn’t be surprised if Gypsies were over 20% in Slovakia (or Hungary, for that matter), so that not nearly all of them were filtered out.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  143. @reiner Tor

    The exact ratio of ethnic Hungarians in Slovakia is 8.5%, but it might be lower among schoolchildren, and some of them attend Slovak schools. But maybe all of them were excluded, and maybe their portion among schoolchildren is not lower than among the general population, which would mean that even if Gypsies stand at 10-12% (almost certainly higher), not all of them are excluded. There are even some Ruthenians who might be excluded based on their non-Slovak mother tongue, so the number of excluded Gypsies would be still lower. The 86% might include some 10 percentage points of Gypsies or more.

  144. @Thulean Friend

    No one else plays this sport much.

  145. @Mitleser

    Oh, unsourced data, my favorite kind! Very hot take, my friend.

    P.S. Anecdotally, the very rich have lots of kids. (Only 3 would be a low outlier.) Does that mean that rich people are very stupid? I always suspected.

  146. @AP

    Not a fair comparison, Slovakia was an agricultural backwater with mostly infertile hilly or mountainous land (thus under premodern conditions desperately poor), similar to Subcarpathia, while Czechia was quite developed with a number of large urban centers already in the Middle Ages.

    First, Hungary as a whole started out from a lower base (poorer and less literate) than the Austrian crown lands, so had less money to develop literacy (which was one of the top priorities right from 1867). I’m not sure how much resources were transferred to Galicia from the western crown lands (like Bohemia or German Austria), but I’m sure there was some.

    Second, the language barrier was much higher for Ruthenians in Hungary than in Galicia to study in the dominant ethnicities’ institutions, which significantly slowed down the formation of an educated Ruthenian elite in the former, which in turn reduced the speed with which local education in the local language could be organized.

    Third, Subcarpathia is a very small and infertile mountainous region, hardly comparable to the rich agricultural area of Galicia with its large urban centers.

    Fourth, within Hungary (or the Austrian crown lands), primary education was mostly in the hand of the churches, and it seems that the Orthodox (and even Uniate) churches did much worse in that respect.

    Fifth, Ruthenians within Hungary did the worst even among Eastern Christians within Hungary, much worse than the Serbs and even worse than the Romanians. (Both of whom, by the way, had a higher rate of literacy in Hungary than in their respective kingdoms.) I’m pretty sure that it had more to do with the peculiarities of Subcarpathia than with a general Hungarian neglect of education. (Though probably Subcarpathia was indeed neglected, the most neglected part of the country.)

    Sixth, it’s not impossible that, as another commenter has already proposed, most intelligent Ruthenians left Subcarpathia either to move to Hungarian cities (where they got Magyarized) or to Galicia, depriving this small backwater from its potential educators.

    Here’s a graph of literacy among the various ethnicities in the Kingdom of Hungary between 1880 and 1910. (Unfortunately it’s not for schoolchildren, rather for the population as a whole.) I’m guessing that it includes the Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia, too, but it’s irrelevant for Ruthenians anyway.

    • Replies: @Brown Boiii
    , @AP
  147. @Thulean Friend

    Drug crisis already peaked a few years ago.

    Drugs are part of the culture.
    Panjab closer to Afghanistan than Delhi.

    Iran, Russia, Af-Pak also faced a deluge of heroin addicts.

    Panjabis don’t really choose Canada so much as particular places.

    Anywhere they were invited to farm.

    50% of Sikhs are in either Surrey (BC) or Brampton (ON).
    Concentrated in N Cali as well.



    “Mass” Panjabi immigration is only a thing of the last 5-10 years with Student Visas though and a lot of that went to Australia.

    Hindus are atleast culturally similar imagine the terror Abrahamics feel||
    Here’s a video: https://anonfile.com/x1RfqbD2nd/Final_Presentiation_mp4

  148. Daniel.I says:
    @AP

    high-performing Hungarians

    You just went full retard.
    Never go full retard.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  149. Nodwink says:
    @AaronB

    Profoundly ignorant comment. Zuck & Bozo are agents of the Deep State, whose companies are basically surveillance operations; Trump is a con artist who has been repeatedly bailed out by his Masonic mates; Uber is also some kind of surveillance op, because it keeps going despite not making any money. Your warrior entrepreneurs are tools of the CIA.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  150. @reiner Tor

    Wow imagine caring this much.

    Panjab gets rich every few centuries between being depopulated.

    We still manage to have 1/3rd of our females come from Slavic lineages. :shrug:

  151. AaronB says:
    @Nodwink

    In other words, they are the warrior elite.

    What did you think they were?

    Join them, and if you wish, subvert them.

    But above all, don’t be stupid.

    • Replies: @neutral
  152. @AP

    Hungarians within Hungary perform better than Romanians in Romania, but I’m not sure that’s necessarily true of ethnic Hungarians in Romania. The language barrier makes it exceedingly difficult for Hungarians to finish a Romanian language education, and while there is a parallel Hungarian language education system, it’s usually of lower quality than the Romanian language education system, and obviously cannot have all the faculties in higher education.

    Large parts of the ethnic Hungarian cognitive elite have also left all the neighboring countries.

    • Replies: @Daniel.I
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  153. @Dacian Julien Soros

    You guys make me think that probably I should support the football hooligans.

  154. @Daniel.I

    Hungary performs significantly better than Romania, which is why it was not unreasonable for AP to think that Hungarians might outperform Romanians in Romania. As I wrote, I’m not sure that’s the case, but it’s not an unreasonable assumption.

    • Replies: @Daniel.I
  155. @Dmitry

    Maths education in Russia – including proportion of students studying maths – is collapsing, in a disastrous way.

    Rofl.

    In Israel, maths education has been reportedly improving…

    Yeah, you should really go back, seems like ugly old crappy Russia is not for you. What’s holding you back?

  156. North Korea is out of the news, and probably nothing will happen, but this is one more area where really bad things might happen. The situation is actually worse than it was a couple years ago, because now there’s a conflict between China and the US, therefore, China is much less likely to be consulted or to acquiesce to unilateral American actions. Also the fact that two years ago a seemingly highly dangerous situation got defused so quickly means that most people will think it’s not very dangerous (despite probably being more dangerous than back then when North Korea had a more hostile and US-friendly China in its back).

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/trump-hints-use-military-force-if-north-korea-backtracks-commitments

    Reading about the Great War, it’s striking how many seemingly dangerous crises there were before one of them became a huge war. Basically both sides thought that the other will budge, and both drew the lesson that by being tough, they could get their way. The North Korea issue (and lots of seemingly defused crises like Syria) could be similar, where both sides learned the lesson that being tough pays. The many crises desensitized the decision-makers to them, and each one of them harbored resentments from real or imagined previous humiliations.

    In other words, it’s unlikely for any particular crisis to start World War Three, but the more crises there are (fortunately it’s been over a year since we’ve had the last one – there was a period of detente before the Great War, too), the more cumulative effect they might have, eventually leading to a big conflagration.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  157. @AaronB

    Traditionally, the lusty and crude lower classes reproduce most, while a healthy and optimistic upper class reproduce less

    Untrue before industrialization.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  158. AaronB says:
    @reiner Tor

    In the end, the human race doesn’t survive.

    Which makes it all not quite serious, and a bit of a game. Life is more fun this way, trust me.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  159. AaronB says:
    @reiner Tor

    That’s what they say. I caught myself after I wrote this, also.

    But I’m not sure it’s true. The pullulating lower classes, with their endless children, is a trope even in the 18th century.

  160. @AaronB

    But why not write what I think? That’s a koan for you.

    • Agree: AaronB
  161. Daniel.I says:
    @reiner Tor

    I do in fact believe Hungarians to be a bit smarter than Romanians.
    I just don’t think the difference to be THAT great.

  162. utu says:
    @Epigon

    Part B: Is it the only solution?
    Part C: Express the equation in Cartesian coordinates for polar coordinates the trajectory of the hare.
    Part D: Wolf’s speed is k=4 times greater than hare’s speed. What is the largest value of k for which the hare can escape?

  163. Daniel.I says:
    @reiner Tor

    The language barrier makes it exceedingly difficult for Hungarians to finish a Romanian language education

    Apart from Harghita-Covasna – where the language barrier is very real – most Hungarians in Romania are bilingual.
    So I really don’t think that would be the cause.

    while there is a parallel Hungarian language education system, it’s usually of lower quality

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
    You don’t get to demand your own parallel system – and then complain when it turns out worse.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  164. @dux.ie

    Why, then, specify that China is specifically BSZJ, if using just 3-4 regions is apparently standard?*

    If they had to specify that, while not specifying the US as MCF, then I am assuming that result was adjusted to reflect the average student in the BSZJ region – not China as a whole.

    I have never made any allegations that China cheats.

    * It doesn’t appear to be common to use such a small number of regions in most cases. About half of Russia’s regions participated. All or almost all the Italian, Spanish, and Turkish regions participated.

  165. @reiner Tor

    I am sure they do. I think I recall seeing some concrete data on that. And Transylvania is nicer than most of the Romania, both stat wise and if you travel through it.

  166. neutral says:
    @AaronB

    Jews are not warriors, jews are by nature cowards. They rule America because they are sociopaths (again this is core to their nature) and because too many people are too good natured and too gullible to do what needs to be done.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  167. melanf says:
    @Vishnugupta

    Probably Yes, since there are modern reprints of this book

  168. @Daniel.I

    most Hungarians in Romania are bilingual

    At what age? Certainly not at age 7, which means that in the early years they might accumulate severe deficiencies. Learning a difficult (and ultimately, at least outside those countries, useless) language like Slovak or Romanian takes up a lot of time and energy, and this makes it difficult to learn other foreign languages or other subjects. And, at the end of the day, they still cannot compete with Romanian native speakers when it comes to applying for Romanian law faculties or similar.

    Harghita-Covasna

    Hungarians there can speak Romanian, too, at least I did observe a couple of them conversing with Romanians without much effort. Maybe fewer of them, or not as well, but they can mostly speak Romanian. The issue is, how much time, effort and energy it takes to learn it.

    You don’t get to demand your own parallel system – and then complain when it turns out worse.

    The issue is, Romanian schools cannot educate native Hungarian speakers either, because you cannot just put children into a foreign language environment and then expect them to compete with the native speakers. It’s also an issue that Hungarians don’t want to give up their ethnicity, at least not that fast, so don’t expect demands for Hungarian language education to be dropped soon. Even if the price might be somewhat worse quality education.

    Anyway, I wasn’t really complaining, merely explaining the reasons behind the lower performance.

  169. AaronB says:
    @neutral

    I see. Thanks for letting me know. I will take it under advisement.

    • Replies: @Brown Boiii
  170. Daniel.I says:
    @reiner Tor

    Certainly not at age 7, which means that in the early years they might accumulate severe deficiencies.

    Let’s step back a bit.

    You speculate that Hungarians in Romania might do worse than Romanians due to language issues.
    My (anecdotal) opinion is that Hungarians don’t do worse at all.
    In fact, it seems to me they do a bit better.

    There are some Hungarians who initially struggle with Romanian.
    But language comes natural to the human animal – so, given the proper incentives (that is to say, money for adults – and simply playing along for children) the problem quickly goes away.

    It’s also an issue that Hungarians don’t want to give up their ethnicity

    You do know no one (in the mainstream, at least) is pushing for such a thing, right ?

  171. @AaronB

    Abraham was a Bhenchod LOL!

    • Replies: @neutral
  172. neutral says:
    @Brown Boiii

    All myths have a certain truth hidden in them. When it comes to the story of Abraham and him wanting to kill his son because of voices in his head, this is good clue that the jews had pscyhopathic tendencies from the start to value such stories. They still continue to worship that lunatic character btw.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @alba
  173. @neutral

    Modern Jews have no relation whatsoever to Old Testament Hebrews.

    The Old Testament guys were, roughly, the same ethnicity as the Carthaginians and the Phoenicians. (All three are just variations of the same tribe.)

    Modern Jews are a European mystery-meat people, but mostly German.

    You must view the story of Abraham in the same context as that of Carthaginian Baal worship.

    • Replies: @neutral
    , @Brown Boiii
  174. AP says:
    @reiner Tor

    Interesting as always, thank you. You are correct that neglect was only part of it, but it was a big part. IIRC in 1850 Galicia and Trancarpathia were very similar.

    Total literacy in Galicia in 1910 was about 61% IIRC, about equal to Slovakia and three times higher than across the Carpathians.

  175. neutral says:
    @anonymous coward

    I have heard these theories, but there is DNA evidence that shows that jews have origins from the middle east. Besides that, the average jew that lived in Europe for centuries looks much swarthier than the average German, Aryan looking types like Scarlett Johansson are the rare exception. They are a mystery meat, but their origins are not European.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  176. @Thulean Friend

    Dinarics seem to be good at sports in general, but I have no idea for Hungary

  177. @neutral

    Three points:

    a) It’s not a “theory”, it’s a fact.

    b) Nobody said anything about genetics but you. Read my post again.

    c) Even looking at genetics, the ‘origins from the Middle East’ story is fake news. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Y-DNA_of_Ashkenazi_Jews

    Scroll down a bit and look at the table. That is, indeed, a table of ‘mystery-meat ancestry’. (And European or not depending on whether your consider Sicily, Iberia and the Caucasus to be European.)

  178. alba says:
    @AaronB

    like i said will to power is only part of the equation of what make a warrior but maybe is more precise to describe as the aryan spirit .

    the merchant devalues the human life kill the beauty and the big irrational project that have impulsed the world forward in all its ineficient pragmatism , greed distorts the reality and value of what exists,it degrade everything to the lowest common denominator ,it feminize society , the human being is considered a medium ;money and gain (fed by hatred and a calculating mind) become ends in themselves big like cartagho or little like your closest shop in your neighbourhood little matters the shaddy materialist pragmatic ,false,envious,femenine, greedy spirit is the same thats why they were righfully hated across time and space
    and the post 60 america is a testament of that the failure of conceiving life not a transitionary phase but the last parade of the train of the merchant values , the victorious america is only a mirage , the inertia of the influence of hundred of years of the aryan soul in america

    but the warrior ethos is still alive not in the the offices of multinational companies but in the heart of adventurers spread across the world practizing suicidal sports dominating their fear and conquering thenselfs searching for a place they can call home

    America delanda est

    • Replies: @AaronB
  179. @Anatoly Karlin

    BSZJ is not representative of entire China, but BSZJ is pretty big in itself. It is not just 4 cities as some iSteve commenters seem to believe.

  180. alba says:
    @Thulean Friend

    not only that

    the current mma heavyweight champion of the world stepe miocik is croatian
    the bronze medalist in boxing in rio olimpics is croatian hrgovic (they robbed him the gold)
    the best current tenist is of serbian origin
    croatian team finalized 2nd in the world football championship
    serbs end up 6 in the basquetball championship
    ……..

    and they have only a population of 4 million croats and 6 million serbs

    the interesting thing is that serbs and croats are the only living descendants with osetians that have scythians roots

    Researchers Milan Hustich and Tadeusz Sulimirski claimed that Sarmatians are the common ancestors of Serbs and Croats. They compare hundreds of words in Serbian and Croatian and relate them to their equivalents in the Scythian languages spoken by the Sarmatians. According to Sulimirski, who published the book The Sarmatians in 1970,6 there are several etymological tests for making such a claim:7

    The name of the Serbs in the variant sarb (Sarva) means in Scythian and Sanskrit “all people united and free”. Scythians were also called serocroats (Sarmatians/issedons), which has the same meaning as “Serbs and Croats” in ancient Iranian: Scythian languages belonged to Iranian linguistic groups, although the vocabulary was closer to Sanskrit.
    The Croatian name (Hrovat) means “the people of pretenders and free men” in the ancient Iranian languages, and “those who wear armor” in Latin. The Sarmatians (meaning “sword holders” in ancient Persian) with their long swords and armor with scales were the ancient knights (Katafrakts). A significant fact is that the name Hrovat (Croatian) in avéstan is synonymous with Serbian in Sanskrit, and means “the people of the suitors”.

    also according to several genetic studies published by Stanford University and FamilyTreeDNA, Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina are the European countries with the highest concentration of inhabitants of Haplogroup I2a1, with the next highest concentration approximately north of the Black Sea in the area occupied by the ancient Sarmatians and scythians, in what has been considered an important evidence of the relationship between the two populations.

    so imagine if a mixed scythians like serbs and croats population have the highest per capita achieviments in the mayority of the sport what a pure scythians would be caplable off

    a last curious thing the proto villanova culture(proto romans) had balcan admixture thats the only genetic difference between romans and etruscans ;so the romans have a decent amount of scythians like admixture in their veins

  181. @alba

    Steve Sailer noted in passing as Novak Djokovic won Wimbledon recently that it seems to be a golden age for Balkan sportsmen. Croatia advanced to last year’s World Cup final in football, arguably one of the most competitive things possible given the huge installed base of practioners and the massive global popularity. Even in India, behind cricket and kabbadi, football is the third most watched sport. Not a small achievement, doubly so for such a tiny country.

    Speaking of which, do you have any ideas why they are so tall? Typically people from the southern parts of Europe are stereotyped as shorter and those from the north as taller. It seems to be specific to the Balkans. I’m not aware that Italians, Spainards, Greeks etc have become as tall as Dutch, Danish or Swedes. But Serbs and Croats are now about as tall or in some cases even taller.

    • Replies: @alba
    , @Agathoklis
  182. @alba

    I know most (and more) of these conjectures, but- aren’t they too tenuous? Croats & Serbs are not, per haplotypes, mostly “Slavs”, but you have to take into account that I2a (just- it has numerous different subclades) is not enough; more, we don’t know about mitochondrial DNA, so it leaves females out.

    Anyway, I don’t know what to think about it all, considering Yamnaya culture & “race replacement” of old Europeans c. 4,500 years ago.

    These things are a bit fuzzy & not clear enough (at least, not to me).

  183. Svevlad says:
    @Thulean Friend

    So, what’s the implication here? That we should start stuffing idiots into meat grinders?

  184. alba says:
    @Thulean Friend

    the correlation between yamnaya (aryan) admixture and height is nearly total in europe ;the more yamnaya admixture you have the taller you are stadistically except in the case of croats and sebs that are much more taller of what their yamnaya admixture would predict

    probably the founding group of scythians that moved to the balcans was very small so a huge variance of a very self selected few that grew in numbers over time is not hard to imagine

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
  185. Remember deepfakes? Here’s one.

    It’s hilarious people used to panic about AI being used to spread racist propaganda – possibly unwittingly – in the future. In the end, it will just be another globohomo tool once the spelling gets polished. (P.S. why not just run into the grass?).

  186. @alba

    Can I get a source for the Scythian claim?
    I’ve grown very tired of everyone from Kazan to Podgorica claiming they have Scythian/Persian/Hunnic ancestry

    • Replies: @alba
    , @anonlb
  187. alba says:
    @neutral

    Scientists Discover Gene That Predisposes Ashkenazi Jews to Schizophrenia
    Variations of the DNST3 gene make Ashkenazi Jews 40 percent more likely to develop schizophrenia and similar diseases.

    https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-ashkenazi-gene-increases-schizophrenia-1.5294333

    and there is more
    >Bloom syndrome. Babies with this disease are born small and remain shorter than normal as they grow. Their skin may look red, and they have more lung and ear infections than children normally have.
    Canavan disease. This disease gradually destroys brain tissue.
    Cystic fibrosis. This disease causes very thick mucus in the lungs and problems with digesting food.
    Familial dysautonomia (FD). People with this problem cannot feel pain, they sweat a lot, and they have trouble with speech and coordination.
    Fanconi anemia. People with this problem do not have enough blood cells and have problems with the heart, kidneys, arms, or legs. They also are more likely to get cancer.
    Gaucher disease. This disease causes a type of fat called glucocerebroside to build up in certain cells of the liver, spleen, and bone marrow.
    Mucolipidosis IV. This problem causes the nervous system to deteriorate, or break down, over time.
    Niemann-Pick disease (type A). This disease causes a type of fat called sphingomyelin to build up in cells of the liver, spleen, lymph nodes, and bone marrow.
    Tay-Sachs disease. This disease causes a type of fat called ganglioside to build up in the cells of the brain and nervous system.
    Torsion dystonia. People with this problem have ongoing spasms that twist the muscles in their arms, legs, and sometimes their body. Testing for this condition may not always be done.

    they are frankesteins out of control nurtured for thousands of years in europe from a minuscule founding group ,in a sense there is nothing more european that jews thenselfs ;the european presure have influenced them so much that they have end up mutating biologically

    we have created the monster that is killing us

  188. This American drag queen story hour shit is seriously disturbing, like something out of a Alejandro Jodorowsky film

  189. AaronB says:
    @alba

    Interesting thoughts. I shall have to consider them.

    Whatever warrior spirit there is left in the world, none of it seems to be in Europe. Today’s Europeans are the consummate greedy and cowardly merchants. They sell us Americans cars, and are much more feminine than us. They barely reproduce. I am talking of Western Europe, of course. The merchant has triumphed in Europe.

    You say the warrior spirit is in scattered individual adventurers across the world. Perhaps. But that makes them a force no one need reckon with.

    But it seems obvious to me that the warrior spirit today is to be found much more concentrated in America, even in corporations.

    America has just begun its rise 🙂 The Empire is just beginning.

    • LOL: Nodwink
    • Replies: @alba
    , @Passer by
  190. alba says:
    @Korenchkin

    1-https://books.google.es/books?id=GWM9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA284&dq=common+origin+of+Serbs+and+Croats&hl=es&ei=Ve7qTNrsLuiS4gbrmtj4Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCTge#v=onepage&q&f=false

    2-Sulimirski, Tadeusz. The Sarmatians. Thames and Hudson, 1970

    3-https://web.archive.org/web/20091103062325/http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/Science_2000_v290_p1155.pdf

  191. nymom says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Yes, sadly I have heard similar things about Ireland.

    It appears to be a 3rd world country with a 1st world credit rating…

    I will be going next year on a visit. Want to see the country my ancestors emigrated from before I pass and in spite of everything I am looking forward to it.

  192. @Anatoly Karlin

    Why, then, specify that China is specifically BSZJ, if using just 3-4 regions is apparently standard?*

    I suspect that’s because China is not uniformly developed like the U.S., the BSZJ regions resemble the OECD area more than any other parts of China at least in terms of income. I’m not sure any of them is the highest performing province in China’s own national college entrance exam (Gaokao).

  193. @AP

    Hungary is 10% Roma. Transcarpathia must be similar.

  194. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    (in international ranking) than their means.

    He is talking about PISA maths test results, not undefined “international rankings”. The results and their distributions are only interesting if test is measuring something interesting.

    In this case, pedantry about some insignificant changes in the distribution of the results in different countries – is even less interesting than if you were discussing a normally designed maths test.

    meaning their smart fractions are better

    Not “smart fraction” – high scoring fraction in PISA maths test.

    PISA maths ≠ measure of maths knowledge/maths. which is what I had expected you to say, but you disappoint me Utu. I thought this was a topic where you are not usually gullibly jumping on the horse.

    PISA maths test, is testing children’s question decoding ability, and perhaps something like their “cultural intelligence”. The “maths component” in most questions at elementary school level, but the question decoding and understanding the examiners’ intentions, is something much more difficult.

    In relation to Russia, there were some fake news in recent years about improving maths levels, because of PISA – which is sad to read, as there has been a real collapse of mathematics school education levels in the last 10 years. (Although the decline had started already in the 1990s).

  195. @hgv

    I guess we should place PISAology into the same category as IQology and astrology. Duly noted.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  196. @Thulean Friend

    Swedish-language high schools dominate best results list in Finland

    Not in PISA where Swedish speakers have consistently done worse than Finns, though this year Swedes scored nearly equally (but mainly because Finnish scores have dropped and a big part of that is that the population in Helsinki’s schools is less Finnish). Native Swedish speakers of course have a huge advantage in school grades when much of the curriculum is about studying Indo-European languages.

  197. Dmitry says:
    @AnonFromTN

    PISA is good for many things – such as e.g. providing jobs for translators.

    It’s not just a different test in every language, but a different test for every national version of every language:

    https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/other-languages/pisa2018testquestions-otherlanguages.htm

  198. @Anatoly Karlin

    If you read the report it notes that the poorest students in the Chinese results are above the OECD average and on par with the highest performing. My question is why Taiwan was so far below other Han people including Singapore and Macau and Hong Kong.

    But i would almost guarantee you Singapore would fare higher than NY or San Francisco or Massacheussets and Wisconsin. Yes – really.

  199. @Svevlad

    PISA actually is made to improve school systems. One of the things it attempts to measure is capacity for critical thinking. Its not just a rudimentary memorization type of test.

  200. amar says:

    I am Mongolian and interested in Russian Buryats , Kalmyks and Tuvans average IQ . Inner Mongolian average IQ is 101 . But Inner Mongolians heavily mixed with Han Chinese . Mongolian average IQ is unknown .

    Kazakhs average IQ is only 82 and Kyrgyzstan average IQ is 90 .

    In your Russian regional IQ map , Tuva,Kalmykia,Buryatia,Dagestan has lowest average IQ .

    Can you estimate ethnic Buryats, Kalmysk and Tuvans average IQ ?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  201. amar says:

    @Anatoly Karlin

    I am Mongolian and interested in Russian Buryats , Kalmyks and Tuvans average IQ . Inner Mongolian average IQ is 101 . But Inner Mongolians heavily mixed with Han Chinese . Mongolian average IQ is unknown .

    Kazakhs average IQ is only 82 and Kyrgyzstan average IQ is 90 .

    In your Russian regional IQ map , Tuva,Kalmykia,Buryatia,Dagestan has lowest average IQ .

    Can you estimate ethnic Buryats, Kalmysk and Tuvans average IQ ?

  202. @Thulean Friend

    Greeks have been the fastest growing of the Mediterranean people and now exceed the height of Americans, Australians, Russians and Germans. However, they are still shorter than the Scandinavians, Dutch, Serbs and Croats.

  203. @melanf

    Oh, really? In Russia every year there is a competition “miss student of Finno-Ugria” among the girls of Finno-Ugric ethnic groups., where compete in knowledge of native language, ability to sing native songs, the ability to write poems in their native language etc.

    I always thought Yulia Peresild looked a bit Finno-Ugric, and she is from Pskov, which is near Estonia. Any thoughts?

  204. Jackjack says:

    Natives-only scores. Western Europeans perform better than White Americans on the most g-loaded test, math:

    • Replies: @Rodolfo
    , @Swedish Family
  205. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Moreover, let me ask you something: who was it who the disastrous proposed American entry into both world wars? Was it the Catholics? Or was it “the WASPs”?

    Fact check: True! One of my relatives was one such person. He helped round up Irishmen and Puerto Ricans in 1917, most of whom were not thrilled about being sent to France. Then he went over to England to sip tea with British generals.

  206. @AaronB

    But they really are deplorable.

    Based on which metric?

    over time, this elite will develop a sense of obligation towards the deplorable poor

    source? Why would this mixed Jew/white/Asian overclass have any obligation to deplorables?

    Furthermore, East Asians have such a low fertility rate that they won’t be much of an influence by 2040. Chinese people are increasingly returning to China after studying. And, elite South Asians, the real new overclass, doesn’t inter-marry, and will do so with less frequence as their numbers increase.

  207. dux.ie says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    >> The Chinese results are ofc pretty worthless.
    > Why, then, specify that China is specifically BSZJ, if using just 3-4 regions is apparently standard?* If they had to specify that, while not specifying the US as MCF, then I am assuming that result was adjusted to reflect the average student in the BSZJ region – not China as a whole.

    Politics. China is the tall poppy everyone will whinge about. It is convinient for OCED to tag that as BSJZ.China to deflect that, even when other participating countries might not have even location coverage (but Westat ensured that all have the relevant and representative cognitive coverage). Apparently China did not object to the new name tag. OECD is more interested in the effects of socio-economic status on academic performance, rather than the location effects, not looking for magic dirts.

    As previously shown, the OECD consultant Westat from US dictated the schools to be surveyed in PISA for all the participating countries, each with two possible specific equivalent replacements. WeightB4 is the percentage of schools in each participating countries that agreed to the schools specified by Westat directly be used in the PISA survey. Alternatively the country concerned for various reasons might reject the first nominated schools and agreed to the alternative designated replacements, i.e. there are some wiggle rooms for the countries. The data are summarized by the US PISA project, https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/2018technotes-11.asp

    The US PISA technote explains how the OECD consultant Westat, from the few selected regions for all the participating countries, how to hammer out the representative sample with the national profile even when the regions are not representative of the national profile, https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/2018technotes-2.asp

    As I said, go read up on statistical sampling methodology. If you want to designate some countries’ results are worthless, which will you consider to be so ??

    Rank | WeightB4 | WeightAft | Country
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Belarus
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | BruneiDarussalam
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | CostaRica
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Estonia
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Ireland
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Jordan
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Kazakhstan
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Korea
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Luxembourg
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Macao.China
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Moldova
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Qatar
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | RussianFederation <—
    1 100.0 | 100.0 | Thailand

    20 99.5 | 100.0 | Finland
    32 98.8 | 99.2 | Sweden
    34 98.4 | 99.0 | Hungary
    35 98.2 | 100.0 | Romania
    36 98.0 | 99.8 | France
    38 97.8 | 100.0 | Ukraine
    41 97.4 | 98.8 | ChineseTaipei
    44 97.1 | 100.0 | Turkey
    47 96.5 | 98.1 | Singapore
    48 96.4 | 99.4 | BSJZ.China <—
    51 95.7 | 98.2 | Germany
    52 95.5 | 99.8 | Israel
    62 91.6 | 98.6 | Poland

    65 89.3 | 93.5 | Japan
    67 86.8 | 92.7 | Brazil
    69 86.1 | 99.5 | Switzerland
    70 85.7 | 88.6 | Canada <—

    75 72.9 | 86.6 | UnitedKingdom <—

    76 69.4 | 78.6 | HongKong.China <—
    77 65.0 | 76.4 | UnitedStates <—

    As previously shown, the OECD consultant ACER from Australia dictated which students from the Westat designated schools were to be surveyed, this time with no replacement. The countries or schools had the right to veto that but the actions were aggregated into the transparent OverallExclusionRate reported. The OverallExclusionRate for Canada is quite high. It was reported for PISA 2015, Canada outright vetoed the inclusion of the First Nation Native Indian students in the PISA survey. For whatever reasons the UK OverallExclusionRate is over the 5% mark.

    Rank | OvallExRate | CovDesire | WPartAft | Country
    1 0.0 | 100.0 | 98.3 | Albania
    2 0.1 | 99.9 | 95.6 | Indonesia
    3 0.4 | 99.6 | 99.4 | Macao.China
    4 0.4 | 99.6 | 87.0 | Uruguay
    5 0.5 | 99.5 | 92.8 | Colombia

    8 0.6 | 99.4 | 97.4 | Korea
    17 1.3 | 98.7 | 85.3 | HongKong.China
    19 1.4 | 98.6 | 94.6 | ChineseTaipei
    24 1.7 | 98.3 | 94.6 | Singapore
    37 2.4 | 97.6 | 96.3 | Japan
    43 2.6 | 97.4 | 92.6 | France
    46 2.7 | 97.3 | 90.4 | Germany
    51 3.1 | 96.9 | 95.7 | Ukraine
    52 3.2 | 96.8 | 99.2 | BSJZ.China <—
    54 3.3 | 96.7 | 97.7 | Romania
    55 3.4 | 96.6 | 92.8 | Finland
    57 3.7 | 96.3 | 94.0 | Hungary
    58 3.8 | 96.2 | 86.0 | Poland
    59 3.8 | 96.2 | 84.8 | UnitedStates <—
    60 3.9 | 96.1 | 86.5 | Ireland
    61 3.9 | 96.1 | 90.5 | Israel
    63 4.7 | 95.3 | 96.2 | RussianFederation <—

    64 5.0 | 95.0 | 92.1 | Estonia
    65 5.5 | 94.5 | 83.1 | UnitedKingdom <—
    68 5.7 | 94.3 | 98.8 | Turkey
    73 6.7 | 93.3 | 94.3 | Switzerland
    75 6.9 | 93.1 | 84.0 | Canada <—
    78 11.1 | 88.9 | 86.5 | Sweden

  208. @Jaakko Raipala

    Finnish scores have dropped and a big part of that is that the population in Helsinki’s schools is less Finnish

    As far as you can tell, what are the biggest non-Finnish minorities?

  209. dux.ie says:
    @utu

    > Could you also extract reading and science 95 percentile data?

    The average 95th percentile PISA Sci

    Rank | Sci95 | Country
    1 721 | BSJZ.China
    2 698 | Singapore
    3 674 | Estonia
    4 674 | Macao.China
    5 673 | Finland
    6 673 | Japan
    7 672 | Korea
    8 671 | Canada
    9 670 | NewZealand
    10 670 | ChineseTaipei
    11 669 | VietNam
    12 666 | Netherlands
    13 665 | Germany
    14 664 | Australia
    15 664 | UnitedKingdom
    16 660 | Poland
    17 660 | UnitedStates
    18 655 | Sweden

    22 650 | HongKong.China
    24 648 | OECDtot
    26 644 | France
    28 640 | Israel
    30 639 | OECDavg
    42 619 | Ukraine
    43 616 | Russia
    47 608 | Turkey
    49 596 | Qatar
    59 567 | Thailand <—
    67 548 | Mexico
    78 500 | Philippines <—

    As to the one who questioned about the relevant of PISA results, the Devos Economic Forum has guidelines for the multinational corp decision makers about foreign investments and the PISA result is one of the major factors for estimating how the local populations can be trained for high tech factory works. For examples in the 90s there were global efforts by many automotive corps trying to make Philippines to be the global hubs for automotive manufacturing and the results seemed to be total disaster. From the above data the Filipinos do not seem to be easily trained to do high tech manufacturing. The automotive corps as well as high tech electronic corps now seem to have reasonable success to do that in Thailand but not in Mexico which is close to the US market. For example the recent floods in Thailand had affected the supply of computer hard disks worldwide. It is also obvious that Vietnam is competent enough to be involved in high end semiconductor and mobile phone manufacturing (Samsung) if those high tech companies want to divest away from China.

    Apparently that whinger is a ignorant armchair nobody and not a global economic decision maker.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @dux.ie
    , @Thulean Friend
  210. AP says:
    @dux.ie

    The average 95th percentile PISA Sci

    42 619 | Ukraine
    43 616 | Russia

    So much for the brain drain of smart Ukrainians to Russia?

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
    , @Dmitry
  211. dux.ie says:
    @dux.ie

    > Could you also extract reading and science 95 percentile data?

    The average 95th percentile PISA Read

    Rank | Read95 | Country
    1 714 | Singapore
    2 692 | BSJZ.China
    3 677 | Canada
    4 676 | Estonia
    4 676 | UnitedStates
    6 673 | HongKong.China
    7 672 | Finland
    7 672 | Sweden
    9 671 | NewZealand
    10 670 | Macao.China
    11 669 | Korea
    12 667 | Poland
    13 664 | UnitedKingdom
    14 663 | Germany
    14 663 | Ireland
    14 663 | Israel
    17 661 | Norway
    17 661 | ChineseTaipei
    19 657 | Japan
    20 654 | OECDtot

    22 651 | France
    26 647 | Switzerland
    28 645 | OECDavg
    33 631 | Hungary
    34 629 | Russia
    38 625 | VietNam
    45 612 | Ukraine
    46 610 | Turkey
    50 592 | Qatar
    60 562 | Mexico
    70 533 | Thailand
    76 491 | Philippines

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Thulean Friend
  212. @Jaakko Raipala

    Native math scores are higher in Sweden than in Finland (519 vs 512) in PISA 2018 and nearly as high in reading (525 vs 527). And this is with a fairly generous definition of ‘native’ (father must have been born in the country). Sweden has a much higher share of mixed 2nd gen and 3rd gen migrants than Finland which wouldn’t be counted according to this generous definition. It’d be interesting to see the breakdown within Finland for this year.

  213. @dux.ie

    As to the one who questioned about the relevant of PISA results, the Devos Economic Forum has guidelines for the multinational corp decision makers about foreign investments and the PISA result is one of the major factors for estimating how the local populations can be trained for high tech factory works. For examples in the 90s there were global efforts by many automotive corps trying to make Philippines to be the global hubs for automotive manufacturing and the results seemed to be total disaster. From the above data the Filipinos do not seem to be easily trained to do high tech manufacturing. The automotive corps as well as high tech electronic corps now seem to have reasonable success to do that in Thailand but not in Mexico which is close to the US market. For example the recent floods in Thailand had affected the supply of computer hard disks worldwide. It is also obvious that Vietnam is competent enough to be involved in high end semiconductor and mobile phone manufacturing (Samsung) if those high tech companies want to divest away from China.

    Apparently that whinger is a ignorant armchair nobody and not a global economic decision maker.

    Please be nice to Dmitry 🙂

  214. @dux.ie

    Thank you for the work you put in!

  215. @AP

    Both Russia and Ukraine do poorly in the top 5% smart fraction.

    Russia beats Ukraine in two of them, but admittedly not by much, and is tied in the third. Rather than smart Ukrainians going to Russia in a massive flood as in AK’s fantasies, a much more probable scenario is that the smart fraction from both countries will move to richer, higher-performing countries westwards if they are going to move at all. Not only would they get much more resources/funds but they’d be surrounded by smarter people, too.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  216. @reiner Tor

    Nobody “put Hungarian children in Romanian schools”. Their parents chose to live in areas with Hungarian schools vs. Romanian schools, despite similar cost of living.

    Saying that “Romania can’t educate Hungarian children is silly”. Very few Romanians bother to learn Hungarian (what would be the point?), and even fewer of these would want to be teachers. In fact, would anyone want a maths teacher who can’t speak properly the language in which he teaches? Therefore the Hungarian-language math teachers are the best the Hungarian-speaking part of Romania could produce. The rest of the country does not get extra resources or additional financial stimuli. The only difference is in the teacher and the student mentality and skills.

    Lately, the Romanian maths team did not include any Hungarian name. The most recent half-Hungarian-name was on the 2008 team. The most recent complete Hungarian name dates from 1993. (That would be 2 Hungarians among more than 100 Romanian-sounding names, a BN level of underrepresentation.) But over the last decade there were two Vietnamese and two Turkish geniuses, one of them born in Istanbul. That is, the Romanian system is good at putting gifted kids one step above their inborn abilities, regardless of genes, but Hungarians’ opt-out from everything civilized means they hate even “Romanian maths”.

  217. Rodolfo says:
    @Jackjack

    But how do you know that this 2018 math test is more g loaded?

  218. songbird says:

    Third world countries have the possibly of enticing foreign investors to set up maquiladoras, if they do well.

    But is there any rational reason for first world nations to take the PISA? It is unlikely that they can push the Flynn-effects that might be associated with development, and seem to now be reversing, due to dysgenics. What is left but teaching the test? And is that a desirable goal?

  219. alba says:
    @AaronB

    its a mirage , under the totalitarian liberal order the old passions still throb with the same energy only inconciously relegated to a corner but the dam wont last eternally and when it breakes the storm will make the world tremble without paralel in history

    your kind have proved incapable of leading this world trying to degrade everything and mixing it to the lowest common denominator even if its signify to rule a world in ruins instead improving and elevating yourself to lead this world with righfull authority;its a very femenine way of thinking trasform everyone in the untermench insteaad of trasforming yourself in the ubermench .

    its only a matter of time until the legitimate king raise to reclaim his legitimate throne and purificate this world so a new golden age can born

    • Replies: @AaronB
  220. AP says:

    On an unrelated note for those in Russia -am coming to Moscow for a relative’s birthday party. Just for a few days due to work vacation limits, so no free time. My family is there already. I heard Sheremetevo has no WiFi – is this true? I have yandex taxi and Uber but with no WiFi I’ll end up haggling with a taxi outside . Is 1500 rubles to the center a decent price?

    • Replies: @Jayce
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  221. Mr. Hack says:
    @Priss Factor

    An interesting article, that actually provides some hope fo the future. I recently had the pleasant experience of attending a 3 day work related seminar at the Arizona Christian University. Their campus is now where the famous Thunderbird International School of Business was once headquartered. I tried to take advantage of this rare opportunity to observe the lifestyle and manner of these young ostensible “Christians” from up close. Lunchtime at their cafeteria exposed me to a “normal” boisterous crowd of youngsters, replete with headphones, smartphones and laptop computers. The atmosphere changed suddenly Tuesday morning when the campus holds their Tuesday “praise” meeting. Very modern rock rhythms served as backdrop for prayer and group singing that could be heard throughtou the campus. This went on for several hours – “Halleleujeh and Praise the Lord”. 🙂

  222. Jayce says:
    @AP

    Sheremetyevo does have Wi-Fi but you can only sign in with a Russian phone number (IIRC the automated system calls you and you have to pick up to confirm). Of course there’s any number of places in the terminal to pick up a local SIM card real quick.

  223. AaronB says:
    @alba

    Like ancient Rome, America is shifting from a republic into an Empire. The Roman Republic also only lasted 300 years or so.

    States must reinvent themselves to remain vital. Eventually the American empire will collapse, but it is just beginning now. It has a long way yo go.

    It is vain to think, just because this transition is accompanied by tremendous social upheaval like in ancient Rome, that this means the end for America.

    If America ended now, it would the shortest run for any great power in history. It would also be the only case where a great power ended without reinventing itself and going through several iterations first.

    America has many transformations to go through before its over, like ancient Rome.

    China or Russia or both, will play the role of the somewhat shabby but still mildly formidable Parthian Empire.

    Plus ca change…

  224. Epigon says:
    @AaronB

    You missed one very important thing.
    There a lot more people today, than in the Classical Antiquity.
    A lot more in USA, than in Roman state.
    More individuals, more collisions, more energy.
    The information sharing and information spread are orders of magnitude ahead, as well.

    I don’t think it will take long. Certainly, the replacement of ethnic Romans, ethnic Latins and even ethnic Italics was underway already during late Republic.

    When a Jewish lesbian Stanford law professor can explicitly state that Ukrainians are made to fight Russia there so USA doesn’t have to fight them “here” and remains “shining city on a hill” – it might already be too late.

    Once the demographic and economic, also ideological (European-American low and middle class) foundation of USA hollows out – war will be inevitable.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  225. AaronB says:
    @Epigon

    Well, its just scaled up, then. I don’t know if scaling up fundamentally changes anything.

    The crazy stuff you see in America today is ephemeral – it is necessary to break down the rigid old conservative culture, but it is transitional.

    Look at the big picture, and don’t place too much importance on the details.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  226. @AaronB

    It seems like your reasoning is very Spenglerian, would you agree? Do you really think that cultures have lifecycles similar to organisms?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  227. Epigon says:
    @AaronB

    The old rigid conservative culture in USA had been broken for a long time.
    What will follow is the (attempt at) breaking those who broke it.

    When enough breadcrumbs were thrown to plebs and they could rationalise their existence by looking at their wives, children and homes – the elite and cabals were free to do as they please.

    Something tells me the incels, groypers, alt-righters, trumpers, enriched and those who had their impoverished white privilege checked will not go away.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  228. alba says:
    @AaronB

    a couple of points

    americas “colonies” europe japan corea and basically every nation where nato have a base is much more slaved to the dollar than to the american military stricto sensu( someone said carthago?) once america lost its economical primacy more and more will abandon the sinking ship and by the end of the century this will be a reality.

    making a paralel with the roman era we are probably at the point when citicenship lost all of its values when caracalla in 212 ac gave citinship to all romans across the empire ,if not there we are only 10 years away of democrats legalizing all the inmigrants, 50 years later the most gruesome civil war destroyed rome and only survived as a zombie for 100 years more.

    the revolution against todays world will came when todays novility basically merchant barons and duches (owner of facebook google,boing….)transfer to the merchant monarchs (owners of the biggest banks)every active they have in long proccess of concentration of capital , the for biggest inversor bancks own nearly 60% of the capital of the top 500 bussiness in the down jones and was only 45% 20 years ago. when the new novility is decapitalized(control every important company) and the monarch reign suprem the time of the revolution and a new paradign will came ;today capitalism is like a hydra it will be much easier to deal with it once only a couple of families controll the entire capital of america

  229. AaronB says:
    @Rattus Norwegius

    Yes, definitely. Although I am not rigid about it.

    But I think transformation is natural and inevitable, and decadence is as natural and inevitable as health. And decadence is always a prelude to a new kind of life. Things must die so other things can live.

    The analogy with biology seems correct to me, but biology itself seems based on a deeper principle of change in a cyclical manner that characterizes all of reality.

    Humans are short sighted – they try naturally to resist change and hold on to the old order. Buddhists say this is the cause of suffering.

    The old culture of the West had become very rigid and dead. If you read Western literature, you see that too many people found it oppressive.

    To hold on to it past its natural life makes no sense. It was a beautiful culture at first, full of a love of adventure. But then it became rigid and dead. Science isn’t about discovery anymore – it is about knowledge. And nothing impedes discovery more than knowledge.

    What was needed was to break down science and start again. Break down our certainties. So a lot of the craziness you see today is just the breaking down of what had grown too rigid.

    • Replies: @alba
    , @Rattus Norwegius
  230. AaronB says:
    @Epigon

    Yes, that old conservative culture probably died in the 90s, though it lingers on. But like I said to Rattus, it had grown too rigid.

    If we want to discover new things, we have to break down our old certainties. That’s what’s happening now. Of course lots of it will be crazy at first. But that’s the adventure of it.

    The certainties of the Middle Ages had to be broken down before the modern period could begin. The certainties of the ancient world had to be broken before the Christian era could begin.

    We have to kill our knowledge before we can start fresh. Of course many old things will be rediscovered in fresh new ways. That’s the fascinating thing about it.

    As for the alt right and groypers and what not, much of this movement is just a doomed attempt to hold onto a dead culture that isn’t coming back in its old forms.

    Some of it is, or can be, about reinventing old forms in fresh ways.

    Our times are crazy, but also full of opportunity and exciting.

    • Replies: @Brown Boiii
  231. alba says:
    @AaronB

    the perfect sistesis between science and misticism was nazi germany the real new rome

    but like cristianity needed hundred of years to spread across the europe after crist dead the same will happen with arianism once financial capitalism became a dead end

    HEIL THE ARYAN RACE

    • Replies: @AaronB
  232. @Jackjack

    Natives-only scores. Western Europeans perform better than White Americans on the most g-loaded test, math: …

    Some of you are reading too much into this test. Reality check:

    1. PISA clearly doesn’t measure school standards only (as your NY Times reader would argue), but it just as clearly doesn’t measure intelligence only (as many in this thread seem to argue). Does anyone truly believe that ethnic Swedes are genetically worse at math than ethnic Germans and Dutchmen? A simpler answer is that we do worse than them because our school system teaches math worse than theirs (this I can well believe).

    2. It’s a test based on samples, so to compare very near results as if they were cut in stone is silly. PISA will have done its utmost, of course, to get representative samples. But samples they are, which means that they come with error margins.

    3. Beyond this, we also have an unknown cultural variable than will cloud the results. Even basic things like translations will always distort the original text in more or less subtle ways, and as Mr. Scientism tweeted the other day, actual cultural differences go far deeper than this:

    We talk about culture like it’s just literature, dress, cuisine, etc, but it includes categorization and predication, presuppositions, paradigms, frames, metaphors, idioms, etc. A particular culture thinks in a particular way. It will make some inferences more easily than others.

    4. Motivation also factors in: the gap between a weak performing group and a strong will in part come down to effort. This is also true within countries. My hunch — or vain hope — is that immigrants do worse than natives partly from lack of effort (the virgin helicopter parent versus the chad patriarch).

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Disagree: Thulean Friend
  233. songbird says:
    @Swedish Family

    I would suppose this is a case of the category “white” being overly broad.

    My feeling is that if you matched for ethnicity – or where impossible, put it into broader categories which at the same time would be more narrow than white – Americans would generally do better.

  234. @amar

    Probably around 90-95 relative to a Russian 100 (lower in Tyva, higher in Kalmykia and Buryatia).

    Vladimir Shibaev’s work suggests that Yakuts perform equivalently to Russians, at least on the Raven’s.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    , @amar
  235. @AP

    Don’t recall unfortunately, I have limitless data so no need to use airport WiFi. But I suspect it has MT FREE network (as in the metro) which you can use for free as long as you first see some ads.

    Is 1500 rubles to the center a decent price?

    About twice what you’d pay for the (basic) Yandex.Taxi service via the app, but approximately what you’d get if you were to haggle with them directly.

    Alternatively, unless you have tons of luggage, why don’t you just use the Aeroexpress?

    • Replies: @AP
  236. Somewhat unrelated. If you strip out the Baltics and Luxembourg (small sample size), Greeks are one of the highest earning groups in the US.

    https://twitter.com/ZachG932/status/1202354540227563520/photo/1

    • Replies: @neutral
  237. AaronB says:
    @alba

    I think you are paying too much attention to form and not enough to spirit or essence.

    I can imagine conditions where technology develops to the point where being a military man no longer means being a warrior. Everything is safe, controlled, predictable.

    And where warrior qualities like aggression and risk taking are required to make money or start a tech business.

    People get too hung up on appearances and outward forms and miss what’s really going on underneath.

    As for America, after the end of slavery, this is the first major transformation its going through – it is rather too early to predict its demise.

    One thing that is striking is that outwardly, the alt right is masculine, but inwardly it is feminine – we are the hapless victims of Jews, we have no agency, etc.

    Outwardly, the Muslims are masculine. But man to man, soldier to soldier (without technology), they are outclassed by supposedly effete Westerners (read up on details of specific battles. It is eye opening).

    It is better to not put too much stock in appearances, and try and see what is really going underneath.

    • Replies: @Brown Boiii
    , @alba
  238. AaronB says:
    @Swedish Family

    It has often been noted by philosophers of science that quantifying something necessarily involves a loss of complexity and nuance.

    Quantification does not come free of trade offs. This is fine up to a point if one keeps this constantly in mind – but one gets the impression our culture has forgotten it.

  239. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    These PISA results, are not related to the concept of “smart fractions” (besides that these are 15 year old kids).

    To understand that, you have to look at the test itself.

    Higher scores, are not attained by people answering questions that would test intelligence – like e.g. “write 5000 words answering ‘What is the effect of presocratic philosophy on 19th German mind?’”

    The highest scores are a symptom of conscientious and careful children (who do not make mistakes while completing trivial tasks, and who will double check their answers).

    This is a separate issue from finding the most intelligent students – to test intelligence, you would have to ask them very different types of questions (and 15 year old children do not have enough knowledge to be tested for intelligence).

    Top marks in this kind of exam, is a sign of careful students, who are eliminating each “wrong answer” and who can guess what the examiner is intending, and who then double check everything after (because normal people make a lot of unforced mistakes in this kind of test because they are bored)..
    https://www.oecd.org/pisa/test/other-languages/pisa2018testquestions-otherlanguages.htm

  240. dux.ie says:

    From Table I.B1.2, the %Pop distribution in 7 PISA Math proficiency levels <L1, L1, L2, L3, L4, L5 and L6 with the corresponding upper limits of the performance bins, i.e. a rough histogram of the Math performance for the country.

    It is interesting that for Israel there is a clear bimodal distribution which might be due to the diff ability between the Jew and Arab. Between RUS and UKR, UKR has higher % at the low Math levels and RUS has higher % at the higher Math levels. Between ISR and RUS, the ISR has higher % at low Math levels and again higher % at the higher Math levels.

    ISR: MathBin %Pop
    |################################### 357.77, 17.7%
    |################################ 420.07, 16.4%
    |######################################### 482.38, 20.7%
    |########################################## 544.68, 21.0%
    |############################## 606.99, 15.4%
    |############## 669.30, 7.0%
    |### 669.3+, 1.8%

    RUS: MathBin %Pop
    |############# 357.77, 6.8%
    |############################# 420.07, 14.9%
    |################################################## 482.38, 25.0%
    |####################################################### 544.68, 27.5%
    |################################### 606.99, 17.8%
    |############# 669.30, 6.6%
    |### 669.3+, 1.5%

    UKR: MathBin %Pop
    |############################### 357.77, 15.6%
    |######################################## 420.07, 20.3%
    |#################################################### 482.38, 26.2%
    |########################################### 544.68, 21.5%
    |####################### 606.99, 11.5%
    |######## 669.30, 4.0%
    |## 669.3+, 1.0%

  241. dux.ie says:

    PISA Math histogram for BSJZ.China, SGP and USA.

    CHN: MathBin %Pop
    |# 357.77, 0.5%
    |### 420.07, 1.9%
    |############# 482.38, 6.9%
    |################################### 544.68, 17.5%
    |######################################################### 606.99, 28.9%
    |####################################################### 669.30, 27.8%
    |################################# 669.3+, 16.5%

    SGP: MathBin %Pop
    |### 357.77, 1.8%
    |########## 420.07, 5.3%
    |###################### 482.38, 11.1%
    |###################################### 544.68, 19.1%
    |################################################### 606.99, 25.8%
    |############################################## 669.30, 23.2%
    |########################### 669.3+, 13.8%

    USA: MathBin %Pop
    |#################### 357.77, 10.2%
    |################################# 420.07, 16.9%
    |################################################ 482.38, 24.2%
    |################################################ 544.68, 24.1%
    |################################ 606.99, 16.3%
    |############# 669.30, 6.8%
    |### 669.3+, 1.5%

  242. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Alternatively, unless you have tons of luggage, why don’t you just use the Aeroexpress?

    I have a huge suitcase full of gifts so Aeroexpress will be inconvenient.

  243. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    I’m not familiar with the items on the PISA, but intelligence can be tested for 15 year old, and even for kids much younger than that.

  244. Not Raul says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Why would Tuva and Buryatia be so different?

  245. Matra says:

    Swedish Family & Thulean Friend,

    Why are Swedes the Europeans with the most negative view of China? Pew – International Views of China

    The most negative in the world, next to Japan.

    Hopefully, it has nothing to do with this

  246. https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/books/ct-books-john-lecarre-agent-running-1103-20191024-uxjpr26dvzhl3faqm3g3dnhh5q-story.html

    The character most emblematic of the rot spread by Putin’s Russia is Arkady, a former agent of Nat’s back in the early post-Soviet era. Arkady once dreamed of a post-Stalinist liberal democracy in Russia. Instead, he has become a cynical rich oligarch with a villa and bodyguards in a Czech resort town.

    Is Putin living in exile? Arkady sounds more like one of the Jewish oligarchs who looted Russia and then bolted off to another nation.

  247. @Dmitry

    You’re being too abstract about this. I’ll try to break it down.

    The highest scores are a symptom of conscientious and careful children (who do not make mistakes while completing trivial tasks, and who will double check their answers).

    A key definition of a highly skilled worker in the O-ring model is lack of mistakes. In your view, a skilled worker seems to be someone with a very high IQ. But even a 95 IQ worker doing “low-level” tasks can be skilled. Think of a precise and detail-oriented carpenter or electrician. If they are sloppy, their mistakes could cost someone their life in the case of the latter.

    In an industrial economy, all the links in the chain are important, including those starting at the lowest end. That’s why the Michael Kremer used the spacecraft Challenger and how it blew up due to a simple mistake as a model for understanding the O-ring model. You can have high-level people doing very complicated designs but if the low-level workers cannot do their tasks with carefulness and precision, it will end in disaster anyway.

    Higher scores, are not attained by people answering questions that would test intelligence – like e.g. “write 5000 words answering ‘What is the effect of presocratic philosophy on 19th German mind?’”

    This is more suitable for a university exam rather than a 15 year old. And I think you underestimate how many stupid people there are in the world. The PISA test wants to test an entire population, hence testing 15 year olds. Remember that most people will not end up graduating with a university degree in most countries. And even of those who do graduate often do so unnecessarily (for instance nurses must now have post-HS education). So you need to set your sights accordingly.

    Try looking at the higher-level math problems available in PISA. Trivial for most people here, but far from it for most 15 year olds. This is self-evident by the low successful completion rate in the students who attempt it.

    PISA, like an IQ test, becomes best at sorting people in the clustered middle (80-120 IQ) and worse the further off you go in both directions. Since most people are located in this middle, it becomes most useful for most people. It is not as useful for selecting the top 1% away from the top 10% (what you are focused on) or vice-versa for the bottom 1% from the bottom 10%.

    The issue is not PISA, which works as intended. The issue is your comprehension of what the useful limitations are, and judging it by a standard it was never designed for anyway.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  248. @Swedish Family

    My hunch — or vain hope — is that immigrants do worse than natives partly from lack of effort

    Am I reading Unz or the usual leftist blank slate talking points I am accustomed to getting in the mainstream press? You have an impressionable mind.

    Even basic things like translations will always distort the original text in more or less subtle ways

    East Asians have consistently been at the very top in reading scores in PISA in all years. Not as well as in math but still at the world class level. Furthermore, why would 2nd gen migrants who are fluent in the native language do worse because of some diffuse “cultural factors” in a non-English speaking country? That’s nonsense on stilts.

    Does anyone truly believe that ethnic Swedes are genetically worse at math than ethnic Germans and Dutchmen? A simpler answer is that we do worse than them because our school system teaches math worse than theirs

    You’re comparing a set of people who are extremely similar genetically, so yes I do tend to agree with you here. But PISA for the most part does not test groups who are extremely similar genetically. You’re taking an edge case in trying to explain the general pattern. Never a good idea.

    Nobody here, as far as I am aware, argues for a 100% hereditian framework. But PISA is very g-loaded, as Rindermann has showed many years back (close to 0.80 or more IIRC), so while there is room for culture among very similar populations (like Northern Germanic nationalities), to argue that culture would be on equal standing with more harder constraints for the overall population would obviously be silly. Though, in fairness, you have not made that argument (yet).

    • Agree: Blinky Bill
  249. @Dmitry

    Intelligence is the ability to learn new skills and mental models quickly, and to retain them.

    Trivia on pointless bullshit like ‘German philosophy’ (may it rest in piss) is absolutely unrelated to intelligence.

    (Or, rather, only related insofar as intelligence requires being good at memorizing things, but the actual content of what you’re memorizing is irrelevant for a memory test – memorizing ‘German philosophers’ is as valid a test of intelligence as memorizing apehoop statistics.)

  250. neutral says:
    @Agathoklis

    I have to ask how much Bezos is shifting that average, his wealth is so massive that it could make a significant difference.

  251. @neutral

    Bezos was born Jeffrey Preston Jorgensen on January 12, 1964, in Albuquerque, the son of Jacklyn Gise Jorgensen and Ted Jorgensen. At the time of his birth, his mother was a 17-year-old high school student, and his father was a bike shop owner. After Jacklyn divorced Ted, she married Cuban immigrant Miguel “Mike” Bezos in April 1968. Shortly after the wedding, Mike adopted four-year-old Jorgensen, whose surname was then changed to Bezos.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/did-jeff-bezos-ever-list-himself-as-hispanic/

  252. @anonymous coward

    He fucked his own sister..

    In other news:

  253. @AaronB

    What season would you say we are in?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  254. @alba

    OI https://www.brownpundits.com/2018/12/07/the-jatts-do-descend-from-scythians/

    We’re Massagetae Fk u Christcucked out.

    NO IF NO BUT SIRF JATT

    What are Saka capable of?

    Well the first Jatt fought the Lord Vishnu to a stalemate and the duel was ceased due to the risk to the universe.

    Guru’s Khalsa is mostly Saka.
    Khalsa has been given Rule of all Creation||
    ChakraVarti.

    Christian Saka win Gold Medals.
    Singh share Indra’s Golden Throne||

  255. @neutral

    Have you looked under your bed? Bezos may be there.

  256. amar says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Thanks for reply . It seems Central Asian nomads average IQ is substantially lower than East Asian farmers . Mongolian average IQ-101 5-th highest in the World is actually Inner Mongolian study . Inner Mongolians heavily mixed with Han Chinese.

    Kazakhs and Kyrgyzs IQ is low . Especially average Kazakh IQ is only 82 . Genetically Western and Central Mongolians are quite close to Kazakhs .

    Can you give me a reason that why Central Asian nomads average IQ is substantially lower than East Asian farmers ? Is it has to do with nomadic life ? Mongols are 85-95% Mongoloid people . There is a flynn effect for that gap , but there is also a genetic reason .

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  257. @AaronB

    Hind will be united with Iran again?

  258. @alba

    Jatts are Massagetae.

    brownpundits has a post on it.

    Lot of Khalsa is Saka.
    Khalsa is ChakraVarti, Ruler of all Creation||

    • Replies: @alba
  259. Passer by says:
    @AaronB

    America has just begun its rise. The Empire is just beginning.

    Guys, i wonder what are you smoking.

    Global Power Index, which is being used in the US National Security Council Global Trends reports.

    Global Power Index

    US Public Debt levels (Hint: If you live in the US you won’t get your pension).

  260. @amar

    One reason that would appear to make sense is that agricultural civilizations, especially advanced commercial ones such as those developed in Song China, in Western Europe from the late Middle Ages, and in Tokugawa Japan, selected for higher IQ amongst other personality characteristics (e.g. as argued by Greg Clark and Ron Unz).

    • Replies: @amar
  261. alba says:
    @AaronB

    a little diference science is the entronization of masculine values of rationality against the more intuitive femenine side that characterized every previous non indo european culture ,is precisely with the rise of the heroic age that would prepare the terrain for the rise of men and with it the rise of science

    merchants just like womans and jews in the other hand operate with the right side of the brain are genetically more adapted to verbal inteligence, are more intuitive,lack visual spacial inteligence ;they are more adapted to to manipulate not to create ,conspiring in the shadows to attain their objectives .

    science is the gift of the sky people to this world.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  262. AaronB says:
    @Rattus Norwegius

    We are at the end of the culture that began in the Renaissance. Its 500 year run is over.

    I used to think that we would slide gracefully into an Alexandrian scolasticism, where we would produce nothing new but tend the cultural gardens of the past 500 years of creativity.

    But we are past that, and into the period of creative destruction. The rigid old forms are bring smashed, everything we are supposedly certain about and know is being overturned.

    So it’s the period between decadence and renewal, between the destruction of the old and the birth of the new.

    The excesses of this period can’t last, but they are necessary.

    The situation in science is a bit different. Empiricism has hardened into scholasticism on the one hand, but there is also a concerted attempt to destroy the foundations of science and start anew. Which is necessary to break through the dead scholasticism that has emerged.

  263. AaronB says:
    @alba

    Science is empiricism, admitting you don’t know and experimenting.

    This is both masculine and feminine – the scholasticism of the Middle Ages was pure masculine rationality, but science is also feminine in that it starts from a point of weakness – we don’t know – and a willingness to yield to reality. Science is also masculine, of course, in that it is bold and adventurous, and utilizes rationality.

    Today, science has hardened into pure masculine rationality – we do not admit we don’t know, and we ignore details of reality that don’t fit our paradigm, rather than yield to reality.

    Pure masculine rationality is sterile and dead, and the purely feminine is chaotic.

    • Replies: @alba
  264. alba says:
    @AaronB

    precisely admiting you dont know something is the epitome of masculinity have the strong will to challange the status quo only a paper reserved for the most heroic demigods of the greek indo european pantheon ,in other words it presuppose action you wouldnt face reality in all its crudity if you werent prepared to challange it and win against the passive recongnizment of conforting lies that represented the maternal gods of the pre aryan femenine cultures

    that culture only can born in a free active and successfull warriors

    • Replies: @AaronB
  265. AaronB says:
    @alba

    Wouldn’t you say that adopting the posture of knowingnes is precisely the masculine posture? It is the posture of being in control, of being stronger, of being the Father who can handle everything.

    Aristotle, the patron deity of medieval scholasticism, was said to be the king of all who Know.

    Science starts by adopting a receptive posture – we don’t try and impose our ideas on reality, but receive the instruction of reality. This is esentially the feminine posture of receptivity and yielding.

    Of course, science has a masculine aspect – smashing old forms that have grown rigid, and taking risks, being adventurous and daring.

    Today, science has hardened into the bad masculine, we might say – the Father side of masculinity. It is no longer the youthful side of masculinity nor the essential feminne side.

    Science is an old man with a gray beard, seeking to lay down the law.

    Is it any wonder that young men with adventure in their veins will seek to overthrow him?

  266. Dmitry says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Smart fraction is a probably interesting concept for economists to understand why industries emerge in some countries but not others – however, PISA style of exam (which rewards 15 year old children decoding examiner’s intentions, and then conscientious completion of trivial tasks), is likely not a very accurate way identify future smart fractions.

    If you want to look at something less abstract.

    The fact American girls score 24 points higher than boys for PISA reading, equal for PISA science exam, and boys only 9 points higher for PISA maths.

    Whereas, the “smart fraction” for most industries in the USA (including fashion industry, culinary industry, etc), is usually quite dominated by men.

    but if the low-level workers cannot do their tasks with carefulness and precision, it will end in disaster anyway.

    Sure, but this is likely result of incentive structure, more than some innate ability.

    Also it’s not necessarily very transferable from children’s exam culture, across to corporate culture. For example, Chinese children behave conscientiously in their PISA exam culture (PISA results imply they double check their responses).

    On the other hand, Chinese manufacturing is stereotypically known for being not very conscientious, or at least likely to double check their products for mistakes. For example, if you buy something quite precise like optics -, then you can spend multiple times more to buy products made in Japan by Japanese workers, rather than those merely produced by Japanese companies in China with Chinese workers doing actual manufacturing of products.

    • Agree: BlackFlag
  267. Passer by says:

    The fact American girls score 24 points higher than boys for PISA reading, equal for PISA science exam, and boys only 9 points higher for PISA maths.

    Whereas, the “smart fraction” for most industries in the USA (including fashion industry, culinary industry, etc), is usually quite dominated by men.

    PISA is useless for assessing actual gender differences.

    Do not look for gender differences among children. Girls mature faster than boys and some results (such as reading scores) are quite different than those among adults. Look for them among adults. (Gender differences 101).

    If you look at PIAAC (PISA for adults) you will see men scoring higher at reading and bigger difference in math. Science diffs increase as well among 12 graders. The same is true for a huge amount of cognitive tests.

    According to some data variability differences too increase among adults.

    With that said, you are correct about the variability issue, but you should look among adults, where both mean and variability gender differences are the largest, and not among children.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  268. Dmitry says:
    @Passer by

    Sure, young age can be one part of the explanation.


    But to our discussion, it also just adds a primitive inference.

    [(PISA scores indicate academic intelligence differences) -> (Girls are more intelligent than boys)]

    Not (Girls are more intelligent than boys)

    [Not (PISA scores indicate academic intelligence differences)] or [Girls are more intelligent than boys]


    Not (PISA scores indicate academic intelligence differences)

  269. MarkinLA says:

    Where is the “Scrabble Playing” category for Chisala?

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