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The last Open Thread went rather haywire quick (though it did end up being a very powerful thread), so I’m posting a new one now.

@blatnoi – Enjoy your forthcoming trip to Kazan! While it’s a city I’d like to visit, I am entirely occupied all of next week. But I’m always happy to meet up if you’re in Moscow.

@vinteuil – Enjoy your stay in Moscow! I would be happy to give recs on all sorts of places and activities, though I will need some more details about what you’re interested in.

***

@ak

More notable posts since the last Open Thread in case you missed any of them.

***

Featured

  • There is a profile of Liu Cixin (The Three Body Problem) in The New Yorker. I am not reading it yet as I have yet to read his books, but perhaps others will find it interesting.
  • Jonatan Pallesen: Taleb is wrong about IQ
    • All the claims from the article that I looked at, that can be interpreted as something specific and tested in a real data set, turned out not to be correct. If Taleb hadn’t blocked everyone who disagrees with him, perhaps he would have found out about this, and not published a post with all these incorrect claims.

***

Russia

***

World

***

Coffee Salon

***

Culture War

 
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  1. This is the current Open Thread, where anything goes – within reason.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

    • Replies: @Anonymoose
  2. Much like ‘Sailor Haumea,’ I too would enjoy seeing US troops marching on Tehran.

    Well, trying at least.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  3. Mitleser says:
    @AltSerrice

    Whould you prefer robotic US troops doing that?

  4. Not Raul says:

    AK,

    You mentioned Moscow recommendations.

    Could you post your general Moscow recommendations?

    I have a 3rd cousin working at an embassy (not a major world power, or Middle East) in Moscow, and I think that it might be cool to direct her to some tips. I think that she can speak a fair amount of Russian; but not at a native level.

    Thanks.

    Best regards,

    some random dude

  5. songbird says:

    Ten names in the dataset were non-western, Muslim names. These names averaged an IQ of 81 (range 76-87) compared with 98 for the western, mostly Danish ones

    .
    Wow, 81 seems pretty low, for people who I presume grew-up in Denmark.

    • Replies: @Hail
  6. AaronB says:

    The article on Guillaume Durocher is very good.

    Durocher shows clearly how the notion of biological superiority – modern day racism – is derived from ancient Greece, and that is where he received his inspiration for these ideas.

    The contrast with the ancient Hebrew idea, which is rejection of biological traits as the basis of superiority, and the substitution of a spiritual elitism which all mankind is eventually called on to participate in, could not be clearer.

    Truly a clash of ancient civilizations – and their strange battle throughout the history of European civilization is remarkable.

    But Durocher has done us an intellectual service.

  7. Epigon says:

    [MORE]

    Anatoly, Duke of Qin comment link is not inserted and the sentence appears unfinished

    AK: Thanks

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  8. Epigon says:
    @AaronB

    Based Hellenes, remained vigilant and most anti-Jewish people in Europe to this day.

    I hope they get their chance for payback for Cyrene, Alexandria and Jewish savagery in 1st and 2nd century AD.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  9. Epigon says:


    THE handshake of USA – so much symbolism.

  10. Beckow says:
    @AaronB

    …the ancient Hebrew idea, which is rejection of biological traits as the basis of superiority, and the substitution of a spiritual elitism

    An ‘idea‘? I suppose one among many other ancient Hebrew ideas, and this one was not put into practise.

    Let’s see:
    – what ethnic group determines its membership almost solely by blood descent?
    – what ethnic group institutionalised its special status – ‘beloved and chosen by God‘?

    If the ‘superiority’ claimed was based on what you refer to as spirituality, why hasn’t that spirituality translate into day-to-day behaviour, or religious mandates, that would distinguish it was generally recognized by outsiders? In case you wonder, even a superficial reading of the last 2,000 years of Western civilization shows that the spiritual superiority claimed by Hebrews has not been accepted by anyone other than themselves (if that, most Jews I know are a bit cynical about how ‘special’ they are).

    I don’t really want to carry water for the Greeks, but it seems to me you have it all upside down in an almost wilful reversal of how these concepts work. You might even know it.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  11. AaronB says:
    @Epigon

    Based Hellenes had a century of glory, and then nothing.

    Not exactly an inspiring run.

    Europe today is reproducing that pattern, after adopting Hellenic culture.

    Anyways its not for me to make choices for you – let’s just lay the facts on the table. I’m not really being polemical here. Obviously the notion of biological superiority will always appeal to certain people.

    Durocher has performed an invaluable intellectual service in tracing the lineage of that idea. I respect that. We can go further and chart the fate of cultures that have adopted that idea in the long run.

    Once clarity is achieved, better choices can be made by everyone concerned. Of course people will still choose differently.

  12. Anon[211] • Disclaimer says:

    Global South Rant

    What do you think makes most sense, for homeless people to try to stay with people close to them/in shelters, or should they break into a bunch houses until they find one they fancy, with suitably attractive and naive women, and then claim they can’t possibly be safe in any other house?

    On a totally unrelated note, does it make sense for refugees to stay in countries close to them/in refugee camps, or should they illegally enter a bunch countries until they find one they fancy, with suitably attractive and naive women, and then claim they can’t possibly be safe in any other country?

    How do you think society would fare if the more successful you were, the more people from the dysfunctional strata of society you’d have to take in and care for in your own home? The middle and upper classes would end up getting all their belongings stolen or ruined, and themselves and their families abused and violated.

    And this is what’s happening internationally, the most successful countries take in people from the most dysfunctional countries. But the burden here falls mostly on the poor and working classes of the successful countries, since these “refugees” end up invading their working class neighborhoods and driving the native westerners out.

    The fact that a lot of refugees don’t want to stay in neighboring countries made up of people similar to themselves is the very reason we should not take them in. Countries are made up of people. The more of them we take in, the more our countries will come to resemble theirs. If some cultures are producing dysfunctional countries, then the people of those cultures should shoulder the consequences.

    There’s about 20 Latin American countries, 50 Muslim-majority countries and 50 African countries in the world. And yet by pure happenstance none of them have apparently turned out well enough for certain refugees to settle for. I guess beggars can be choosers. Only white countries are good enough for millions of “refugees”, but white people who want to live in majority white countries are racists.

    What’s wrong with neighbors taking the primary responsibility for their neighborhoods? During World War 2 Sweden took in about 200.000 refugees from neighboring countries despite being forced to ration food and electricity. It all worked out fine. There’s a Swedish saying that goes something like this: “Kids (that are) alike play nice”.

    [MORE]

    Latin America has twice the population of the United States. Muslims make up a quarter of the world’s population and rising. In the year 1900 Europe had three times the population of Africa. Today, Africa has 5 times as many children every year as Europe. White people are becoming a smaller and smaller minority globally, and soon in our own countries. In the future, will we even have the option of fleeing to countries made up of people similar to ourselves? But I’m sure Muslims and Africans will care for us as well as they’re currently caring for their own people.

    Muslims Fleeing Islam?

    Muslims are not troublesome because the west doesn’t accommodate them, they are troublesome everywhere from Nigeria to Sri Lanka, and of course even in countries where basically everyone is Muslim. They are either a troublesome minority or an oppressive majority.

    The most common occupation among Muslim terrorists in the west is engineering. It’s not about poverty, it’s about Islam openly encouraging their followers to subjugate non-Muslims.

    If we had Nazi or communist immigrants turning the streets unsafe we would stop taking in more of those people. But if it’s a cultural or religious group doing it, we have to ignore it lest we be called racists. But why should one type of ideology get special treatment? And isn’t it strange that westerners are not as “racist” against Hindus or Buddhists, even though they tend to look more different from westerners than Muslims do? Chechnya is a white European place, but somehow Sharia law is still not very attractive.

    And Muhammad was not just a religious leader but a political one as well, who personally led jihads and took slaves. Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone on a cheating woman. Muhammad on the other hand ordered many people stoned for adultery. To this day many Muslims and Muslim countries try to live as free from sin as he did. Oh joy.

    If Nazism was a religious ideology instead of a political one, would Nazism suddenly be fine and dandy? Just a part of the German cultural heritage? And anyone who objected to the indigenous culture of Nazi-Germans would be an intolerant racist?

    Hitler himself justified his genocide by referring to the Muslim genocide of Armenians. Turkey still does not acknowledge it as a genocide, even though the word “genocide” was specifically coined to describe the Armenian Genocide.

    “Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” — Adolf Hitler

    Turkey has never been a colony, it’s a fairly developed country and 40 million tourists visit it every year. And yet hordes of Middle Easterners would rather risk their lives on the seas than to stay in a country made up of fellow Middle Easterners. There are also several countries in the Middle East like Qatar, The United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia that have a higher GDP(PPP) per capita than Sweden or Germany. That is, they have more money per person than western countries. Money they barely even had to work for since it’s mainly from oil. They also take in workers from all over the world. But no matter how rich a Muslim country gets, for some reason many Muslims would rather brave the seas to Europe and our systemic racism.

    Are Different People Different?

    Look at East Asian immigrants. Lower crime rates and higher socioeconomic status than native westerners, despite the supposed all-pervasive systemic racism. Now look at the countries with East Asian majorities. 100% of the ones without a history of communism are all among the most developed countries in the world(Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macao). It’s almost like the kind of people that make up a country somehow affects how the country turns out. Who knew? 100% of European countries without a history of communism also happen to be developed countries. But I’m sure that’s just a coincidence.

    Those East Asian countries also have the highest average IQs in the world. China, despite being a developing country, has an average IQ just about as high. East Asians raised in the west, even if raised by white people, also have higher IQs than any other ethnic group except Ashkenazi Jews. Could it be that separate populations in different environments haven’t evolved exactly the same, implausible as that may seem? Could it be that survival of the fittest is not entirely determined by crucial things like hair color and the size of noses, but also unimportant things like intelligence? Could it be that natural selection is not some inherently egalitarian force that refuses to make us different except in superficial “skin-deep” ways?

    Australian aboriginals have an average IQ of 62, by far the lowest of any ethnic group in the developed world. The line for mild mental retardation is 70. For comparison, Native New Zealanders and Native Americans have average IQs of around 90. African-Americans average 85(the white-black IQ gap has barely moved in 100 years despite the great increase in equality by the way). Other minorities in Australia, like East Asians for example, do as well as they usually do. What’s unique about Aboriginals? The obvious answer is that Australian natives have been developing separately for 60.000 years, and have thus developed differently to other races.

    For instance: “Aboriginal Australians possess inherited abilities to stand a wide range of environmental temperatures. Aboriginal people were observed to sleep naked on the ground in below-freezing conditions where the temperatures easily rose to above 40 degrees Celsius during the day. Aboriginal people of Tasmania would sleep in snow drifts wearing only an animal skin. According to National Geographic magazine, it is believed that this ability is due to a beneficial mutation in the genes which regulate hormones that control body temperature.[42]”

    Wow, that’s quite an ability! Meanwhile, other people who lived in cold climates developed the intelligence to create well-made houses and clothes. Difference solutions to the same problem that both worked fine. However, what happens when these two people live in the same society? The cold resistance is no longer much of an advantage, since the aboriginals now have access to good housing and clothes. However, lacking intelligence in our complex modern society means you’ll be completely lost and constantly making bad decisions. Drugs, crime, violence…

    And yes, I realize it’s not the Aboriginals fault we tried to integrate them and “civilize” them. But the solution is not to fruitlessly try to integrate them even more and better! They were surviving perfectly fine on their own before Europeans got there, and that is what they must go back to doing. The alternative is to be a permanent low IQ dysfunctional underclass of the west. Give them some good land they can live off, set up strict borders and let them fend for themselves as they’ve always done before. There’s plenty of tribes around the world still living as they’ve always done, with little or no contact with the rest of the world. We must stop trying to civilize, integrate and assimilate everyone into western society. I’m not sure there’s any hunter-gatherer populations that have adapted well to modern life.

    Western Imperialism, the Root of All Evil?

    Many people still blame their countries’ current problems on colonialism that ended generations ago, yet five out of those developed East Asian countries I mentioned were colonies. Hong Kong and Macao were British and Portuguese until only 20 years ago. Most Latin American countries have been independent for 200 years, longer than Canada, Australia or New Zealand. It hasn’t done them any favors.

    (Blame “meddling” by the US? Why have even countries that were recently colonies been able to succeed then? Colonialism is surely the highest level of meddling. And why has the US even been in a position to control the fate of all of Latin America? Why haven’t the big countries that should be better able to resist foreign meddling like Mexico and Brazil, been anymore successful than smaller Latin countries? What about Chile, one of the more successful Latin countries despite US meddling? What about US “meddling” in Germany, Italy, Japan and South Korea etc? It’s almost like Europeans and East Asians are always successful as long as they’ve managed to avoid communism.)

    If not for imperialism Sub-Saharan Africa would today surely be a paradise. Sure, Europe had trains before most of Sub-Saharan Africa had wheels(carrying stuff on their heads still going strong to this day). Sure, white countries decided that owning black slaves was immoral before black countries did. Sure, Ethiopia was only ever occupied for a few years during World War 2, no worse than most European countries, and Liberia was only settled by fellow black people. That’s why those countries have always been such shining beacons of peace and prosperity. Sure, the Philippines was a western colony four times as long as most Sub-Saharan African countries, and it’s still doing a lot better than Sub-Saharan Africa. But still.

    Multiracial Paradise?

    In Spanish and Portuguese colonies whites have mixed extensively with non-whites from the start. Has it become an egalitarian multiracial paradise? Is Latin America the height of democracy, human rights, equality, feminism, LGBT-rights or whatever else westerners strive for? No, not in the slightest. And the less European blood they have, the less successful the countries on average are. It is Scandinavia that people always hold up as a success story, which was 99% white until recent decades. Now the news in Sweden is full about explosions and rapes.

    What about slavery? Africans had slaves, African sold some of those slaves to some whites, and eventually hundreds of thousands of whites died to free them. Yet whites get all the blame.

    At some point after being freed from slavery 160 years ago, African-Americans could’ve self-segregated and created self-sufficient cities far from whites, or moved back to Africa, or to majority-black countries in the Americas. But they prefer to live alongside the white devils, while disparaging them and committing high levels of crime against them. No one’s forcing you to stay! That goes for immigrants as well, nobody’s forcing you to come here! Instead of complaining, just leave.

    Avoiding Another Holocaust

    “We must not let history repeat itself!” says the politicians. Except it’s the places with plenty of ethnic groups that tend to have plenty of ethnic strife. Here’re some bits from Wikipedia about the Rwandan Genocide:

    “Most of the victims were killed in their own villages or in towns, often by their neighbors and fellow villagers. The militia typically murdered victims with machetes, although some army units used rifles. The Hutu gangs searched out victims hiding in churches and school buildings, and massacred them… Gerard Prunier estimates that during the first six weeks, up to 800,000 Rwandans may have been murdered, representing a rate five times higher than during the Holocaust of Nazi Germany.”

    Random villagers with machetes in tiny Rwanda managed to kill people at five times the rate of Nazi Germany! Apparently all the propaganda in the world couldn’t make most Germans that bloodthirsty.

    Was the Rwandan people more prone to violence than the German, or was their government just so efficient that it made the holocaust look like amateur hour? Well, this is what the Commander of the UN peacekeeping force Roméo Dallaire reported early on in the genocide:

    “When Roméo Dallaire visited the [Rwandan] government’s headquarters a week after its formation, he found most officials at leisure, describing their activities as “sorting out the seating plan for a meeting that was not about to convene any time soon”.[154]”

    And don’t think being a minority yourself will protect you from the global southerners. East Asians in France for example are a favorite target for African criminals, since they are quite well off and unlikely to resist. Anti-Semitism is the strongest among the southerners as well, while a fringe position among westerners. If you’re a sensible immigrant from the global south, you should realize there’s a reason why you didn’t stay there, and that you shouldn’t support unqualified immigration from there.

    And even if you care nothing for the west and only about the global south, you should be against this mass migration. In the year 1800, 85% of the world’s population lived in extreme poverty. Today less than 10% do. In the year 1800, about 43% of all children died before adulthood, now only a few percent do. Industrialization, vaccines etc, are originated in the west. Still, today almost all progress in science and technology is made in the global north. It doesn’t matter how incompetent the global south is, a rising tide has lifted all boats.

    However, if the US becomes Latin American and Europe become Afroislamic, then the tide will start to turn. Sure, there’s still East Asians, but 90% of them live under communist dictatorships. Do we really want to hand the world over to them?

    • Replies: @songbird
  13. Epigon says:
    @AaronB

    I don’t even want to know how did you arrive at the “century of glory” for Greeks altogether, but I am interested in your view of comparative “Jewish glory” and “spiritual superiority”.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  14. [MORE]

    Ben Southwood post has no link.

    AK: thx

  15. songbird says:
    @Anon

    Turkey has never been a colony

    Actually, it had one of the largest colonial empires. It is still a toilet.

    Hong Kong and Macao were British and Portuguese until only 20 years ago.

    For this, they have a specious explanation. HK was so small and remote that the British had to give it good government, or the people would leave. It is a pat explanation since no large East Asian country was ever colonized by Europeans. Of course, it conveniently ignores what the Japanese did in Korea

    Random villagers with machetes in tiny Rwanda managed to kill people at five times the rate of Nazi Germany! Apparently all the propaganda in the world couldn’t make most Germans that bloodthirsty.

    They blame it on Belgians programing them like wetwork robots – it is quite funny.

  16. @AaronB

    ‘…The contrast with the ancient Hebrew idea, which is rejection of biological traits as the basis of superiority, and the substitution of a spiritual elitism which all mankind is eventually called on to participate in, could not be clearer…’

    This is like having to listen to a Hitler fanboy go on and on about how the Nazis were trying to defend Western civilization.

    The sole difference is that the Nazis were definitively defeated in 1945.

  17. @AaronB

    Could you make another very stupid comment?

  18. Recently in alt-right/Jewish news;

    Four Zionists challenged former BNP youth leader Mark Collet to a debate. They were defeated so badly that even Jewish publications acknowledged that it backfired and they deleted the video (although it is still mirrored elsewhere).

    https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/pro-israel-groups-online-debate-with-far-right-activist-backfires/

    • Replies: @Oliver D. Smith
  19. anon[181] • Disclaimer says:

    “Trump Planning “Economy Crippling” Sanctions Against Turkey Over S-400 Purchase”

    The Empire is getting desperate as their alliances fray. They are threatening sanctions on India, too. Imagine their reaction when this moves beyond the defense sector to private industry. In fact, it already has. Look what they’ve done in regards to Huawei. China is far from fully developed but yet California cannot compete with this Chinese tech company, so they had to threaten “allies” into not buying their products before ultimately barring trade with them all together under the pretext of “security”, as if the NSA doesn’t have backdoors to all of these chips and software programs made in the United States; it’s a gambit that will fail as China can only be kept down for so long – the market goes with the superior product because greed trumps principle and long-term planning.

    I predict that the Empire will become increasingly desperate to maintain dominance in the future as the Chinese crush them in international competition over the coming decades. An AI winter or a cessation of Moore’s Law may also allow the rest of the world to effectively compete with and perhaps outcompete Silicon Valley in some respects. Also, the US will lose cultural dominance over the coming decades as sophisticated deepfake technologies allow global audiences to make high-quality, reasonably priced – nonpozzed – movies, videogames, and television of similar or greatly superior quality to modern day movies; this may perhaps put some future Hollywood studios out of business in the process – all the easier in this oppressive climate.

    • Replies: @songbird
  20. songbird says:
    @anon

    sophisticated deepfake technologies allow global audiences to make high-quality, reasonably priced – nonpozzed – movies, videogames, and television of similar or greatly superior quality to modern day movies

    I’ve advocated patching entertainment for blacks, so that all the faces appear black and giving it away free, or deeply discounted, as a means to decrease criminality, as well as to disburse other selected messages. As well as to generally do away with everything being pie-chart diverse.

    Hollywood has completely lost its cultural cachet, it cannot make real cultural movies anymore. Because culture comes from people, and it is always trying to make a lowbrow, diverse, worldwide product.

  21. anon[159] • Disclaimer says:

    BTW, our friend Haumea is also Rational Wiki contributor. Any one surprised? 😉

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:Sailor_Haumea

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Sailor_Haumea

  22. @anon

    So that’s actually a real person and not Titania McGrath’s sister?

  23. @AaronB

    ‘Based Hellenes had a century of glory, and then nothing.

    Not exactly an inspiring run…’

    What a farcical statement.

  24. @Anatoly Karlin

    Respond to my suggestion in the last open thread.

  25. blatnoi says:

    I’m only in Kazan for a conference in my field. Since I’m from a big enemy country in North America, even with a Russian wife and children it was a pain to get the visa and it starts one day before the conference and finishes one day after. Maybe in the future I’ll go to Moscow, but might not be on my own. Oh well, I’ll just go to some hipster style bar and talk to local left wingers who hate Putin, or other conference attendees. Maybe I’ll buy a laptop if the exchange rate gods will it, or try to get a friend there to use his credit card to buy me some cheap Steam games.

  26. @AaronB

    ‘…We can go further and chart the fate of cultures that have adopted that idea in the long run…

    Well, that’d be kind of hard. ’cause, you see, literally every culture from that of the modern West to the Islamic Republic of Iran draws inspiration from Hellenic culture (did you know the Ayatollah Khomeini, aside from his other claims to fame, was a noted authority on Aristotle?). Some of course do so very indirectly, as in modern Japan or India, but they all do. Ultimately, there’s no such thing as a ‘non-Hellenic’ culture on earth, unless you want to count the Yanomami in South America and the like.

    So what, meaningfully, are you going to say? After all, even the only current Nazi state, Israel, genuflects to ancient Greece when she claims to be ‘the only democracy in the Middle East.’

    Your proposal that we chart ‘the fate of cultures’ that adopted Hellenic culture is a bit like we look into the effect of thinking on human life expectancy. Everyone does it, in one sense or another, so what could we possibly conclude that would be significant?

    • Replies: @Anonnia
    , @anonymous coward
  27. Anonnia says:
    @Colin Wright

    Well Meds are black, Greeks are Meds, and most important graph in the world; so.

  28. anonymous[268] • Disclaimer says:

    Another one for your collections of twitter freaks and crazies.
    Real or not real? Take your bets!

  29. utu says:
    @AaronB

    What’s is happening to you? The quality of your comments is going down. Your comments are like drive-by shootings. Do they have them in Crown Heights? You lost control to the point that you even do not pretend to appear to be rational or factual? Don’t you care anymore? You seem to be very angry and spiteful.

    • Replies: @iffen
  30. @Kent Nationalist

    lol.

    Collett in my opinion works for Hope Not Hate and those same groups he’s supposedly meant to be debating.

    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mark_Collett#Hope_not_Hate_spy.3F

    A few days prior to EU referendum he showed up with his girlfriend with Nazi tattoos all over her body, while distributing Leave EU leaflets – of course someone with a camera just so happened to be there – and the next day it was all over news about Nazis supporting the Leave EU campaign. The whole thing was arguably deliberate and orchestrated to smear the Leave campaign and loose them votes by associating people who vote for Brexit as being literal Nazis.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1234131/extremists-including-a-neo-nazi-with-a-swastika-tattoo-on-her-breast-have-infiltrated-the-brexit-campaign/

    A video discussing Collett’s dirty tactics to demonise Brexit by a veteran BNP activist Joe Owens-

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  31. @anon

    Looks like a parody, I’m an ex-sysop there and am usually good detecting who is a real SJW and an impersonator. The user-page certainly looks fake. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:Sailor_Haumea

    Mikemikev (real name Michael Coombs https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Michael_Coombs) often creates parody accounts on Rationalwiki pretending to be a Zionist/SJW/Antifa/Communist etc.

    Could be Mike again up to his old tricks. This wasn’t so long ago-

    see here – https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:Glamour_Sickle

    27 April 2019 D (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Glamour Sickle (talk | contribs) with an expiration time of π×infinity! (account creation disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Ban evasion: Clearly User:Mikemikev sock per Special:Diff/2065488. Disabling TPA.)

  32. anon[342] • Disclaimer says:

    “Collett in my opinion works for Hope Not Hate and those same groups he’s supposedly meant to be debating.”

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that Lauren Southern was a mole for HnH for the past year or so.

  33. anon[173] • Disclaimer says:

    “BTW, our friend Haumea is also Rational Wiki contributor. Any one surprised?”

    Could be a troll. I also wouldn’t disregard the possibility that the government is using that community to advance a narrative through infiltration with a fake account. The FBI was sowing anti-Russian conspiracy theories on 8chan with a fake account and redirecting conspiracy theories away from the CIA (and Mossad, a foreign intelligence group … for some reason) and to the Russians. Hmm … FBI infiltrates 8chan, sows pro-war, anti-Russian conspiracies from one part of the political spectrum; they also infiltrate another and advance the same narrative from a different part. Maybe that’s what’s happening here. The federal government has a budget of million of dollars to advance their narrative and counter “propaganda”. Has anyone asked what they are spending all that money on?

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  34. Hail says: • Website
    @songbird

    In Lynn & Vanhanen (2006), countries at IQ=81 are:

    – Egypt
    – Honduras
    – Maldives
    – Nicaragua
    – Northern Mariana Islands

    Denmark was at IQ=98 in both Lynn & Vanhanen 2002 and 2006.

  35. g2k says:

    It looks as if the establishment in the UK has waited until the race for tory leader was down to one brexiteer and one remainer before giving the former the “Francois Fillion” treatment.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48727620

  36. utu says:
    @Priss Factor

    I would like to hear Ron Unz comment on this:

    California, and particularly the Bay Area, already reflects this neo-feudal reality. Adjusted for costs, my adopted home state suffers the overall highest poverty rate in the country, according to the US Census Bureau. Fully one in three welfare recipients in the nation live in California, which is home to barely 12 percent of the country’s population, while a 2017 United Way study showed that close to one in three of the state’s families are barely able to pay their bills. Today, eight million Californians live in poverty, including two million children. Roughly one in five California children lives in deep poverty and nearly half subsist barely above that.

    For all its protestations of progressive faith, the Golden State now suffers one of the highest GINI rates—the ratio between the wealthiest and the poorest—among the states. Inequality is growing faster than in almost any state—it now surpasses that of Mexico, and is closer to that of Central American banana republics like Guatemala and Honduras than it is to developed countries like Canada and Norway. There’s even the return of medieval diseases such as Typhus tied to the growing homeless encampments. We could soon even see the return of Bubonic plague, although the mainstream media seems to be ready to blame this, like most ills, on climate change as opposed to failed social policy.

    • Agree: vinteuil
  37. Mikhail says: • Website

    Church Situation In Ukraine

    https://irrussianality.wordpress.com/2019/06/21/splitter/

    Some excellent followup comments.

  38. @AaronB

    You are growing more and more audacious – this is good. Now all that is needed is for you to endorse the idea of a nuclear world war to mark the final splendid blaze that is your comment history.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  39. ussr andy says:

    OT

    why does the Ukie Wikipedia have so many articles?

    [MORE]

    close to a million, as opposed to Russia’s 1.5 million, with 1/5th (?) the population.

    Dafuq?

    the depth, however (I assume it’s some graph-theoretical measure similar to the “six degrees of Kevin Bacon”, only for hypertext (does anyone still say hypertext?)) is much lower, which, IIUC, suggests that most articles are new.

    Also, many times, there exists a Ukie article and an English article, but no Russian one, about pretty arcane topics, too (example.)

    Is there some centralized (and well-funded) English-Ukie translation effort going on? (all those Erasmus graduates, they won’t employ themselves, you know)

    Is Ukiestan consciously trying to close the lexico-conceptual gap between it and the West?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  40. iffen says:
    @utu

    The quality of your comments is going down.

    You are wrong (as usual) the quality of his comment has not gone down. It is at the same level of banality as the first one.

    • Replies: @utu
  41. @Oliver D. Smith

    I doubt it. His rhetoric is generally sensible and certainly anti-violence, which contrasts with what you would expect if he was trying to discredit nationalists like Joe Owens (who has accused vast numbers of people of being spies) suggests. Presumably he didn’t do anything covert within the BNP either, otherwise Joe (or perhaps Nick Griffin) would have mentioned it.

    Posing with Swastika girl is an anomaly, so I think it’s more probably doing something stupid for a woman.

    • Replies: @Oliver D. Smith
  42. @ussr andy

    Did you do research on what the normal proportions would be? I’d guess it’s not fully proportional. Theoretically speaking, each language should have the same number of entries, since there are so many subjects, but obviously larger languages (especially English) will have many more due to the fact that there are simply not enough people to write the entries (even short entries) for the smaller languages. However, I’d guess that it’s usually the quality and length of the individual entries that suffer the most, and not necessarily the number of entries.

    With Russian, you with think it gets a boost from being a lingua franca in a huge area (roughly the former USSR, except maybe the Baltic states), so yes, it might seem somewhat suspicious, but we’d need more information. Don’t forget, local activists and even normal Wikipedia enthusiasts would want to expand the number of entries more than their quality or lengths, so probably that’s what you’d get even in the absence of any centralized effort (either from the Ukrainian government, or from the Soros type crowd).

    I’d also think that since 2014 many formerly Russian Wikipedia editors and writers switched to the Ukrainian Wikipedia, due to the increase in Ukrainian nationalism.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  43. Anon[388] • Disclaimer says:

    I have zero opinion on, or interest in, vaccines and their harm/efficacy but this is interesting.

    Russia, Korea, Japan, and France (nat’l IQ’s ranging from 97-106) are vaccine truthers while India, Ethiopia, Venezuela, and Tanzania (nat’l IQ’s ranging from 69-84) believe in Big Pharma.

    • Replies: @Abelard Lindsey
  44. @Kent Nationalist

    Collett threatened to kill Nick Griffin (!) a few weeks before the May 2010 General Election. Also, the day before the election – the BNP website suspiciously was also taken offline (at that time the BNP website was receiving more views than any other UK political party.) Obvious sabotage.

    BNP official arrested over claims he threatened to kill Nick Griffin
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bnp-official-arrested-over-claims-he-threatened-to-kill-nick-griffin-1936014.html

    HnH and Searchlight had heavily infiltrated the BNP after a survey in October 2009 showed 22% of voters would “seriously consider” voting BNP and the fact they won nearly 1 million votes in the 2009 European parliament election, getting Griffin and Brons elected. At that time they also had around 13,000 members (more than UKIP) and were 4th largest party in UK.

    22 per cent of voters would “seriously consider” voting for the BNP in a future local, general or European election
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/6417906/One-in-four-would-consider-voting-BNP.html

    The BNP was widely predicted to win their first MP seats in 2010 – yet they did rather poor and under-performed winning not a single seat. That was largely a result of HnH spending in its spies, infiltrating the movement and causing the party internal problems as well as shutting down their website a day before the 2010 GE.

    Joe goes a little overboard, but I think he’s probably right with 70% of HnH spies he lists.

    What’s interesting is where did the HnH spies go after the BNP fully collapsed in electoral support by 2012/2013? Well, they all re-located to then take down UKIP which had replaced the BNP, as an example, one Joe lists is Jack Sen.

    This was literally the day before the 2015 GE:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/01/ukip-suspends-election-candidate-jack-sen-over-racially-charged-comments

    Same HnH style tactics. Why on earth would a GE election candidate a day before election post anti-Semitic comments?

    Btw, I no longer support any of these parties or type of politics, and haven’t in ages – so I no longer care even if HnH continue to do this. I think that BNP and UKIP were also never obtaining their full electoral support potential even without the HnH spies and sabotage. Both parties went down a anti-Islam path (that only ever appealed to “anti-Jihad” cranks), something I always said would limit their appeal to ordinary voters.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  45. @Anon

    Do you have a link for this?

    • Replies: @Anon
  46. @Oliver D. Smith

    Jack Sen I can definitely believe is a spy

  47. utu says:
    @iffen

    I like AaronB. Sometimes I wonder whether he might be hollow inside and to what extent he presents some sort of a facade but he had courage to be open until recently that’s why I expressed my concern about him. About you on the other hand I have no doubt whatsoever that you are packed with shit and there is no room for anything else left. Your farts are always the same.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @iffen
  48. I’ve been thinking about your industrial malthusian scenario, especially within the context of the thousand state sovereignty model (http://www.unz.com/akarlin/a-world-of-1000-nations/). I think it is not a show-stopper for the continued development of advanced technology because even with a declining mean IQ, there will still be enough sharp people (in absolute numbers) to continue to push things forward technologically. There are areas of technological innovation that are amenable to significant accomplishments by small groups or even individuals. Of course bio-engineering comes to mind. But there is also stuff like 3-D printing (additive manufacturing), robotics, and various areas of material science that are also largely in the domain of small groups. Its the big ticket stuff (particle rings, semiconductors, and space) that would be most impacted by the general decline in IQ.

    Your industrial malthusian scenario repels me mainly for aesthetic reasons. Natural areas will shrink in size, with many of them (all of them?) disappearing completely. I enjoy being in the outdoors. This may not be an option in the industrial malthusian future. In any case, the image of a world inhabited by a 100 billion “people of Walmart” is not a pleasant one at all!

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  49. Hail says: • Website

    Sad news —

    Bernie flips on immigration, comes out in favor of illegal foreigners and random people from anywhere over Americans, reversing previous pro-American position:

    This tweet got him “ratio’ed,” though. At Tweet+27hrs,
    – 3.4k comments;
    – 1.9k retweets;
    – 11k likes.

    Flashback to same time in the previous cycle, when the Bernie surge was gaining steam:

    (From the famous interview with Jewish journalist Ezra Klein, b.1984 in California) (Interview conducted late July 2015)

    Ezra Klein: I think if you take global poverty that seriously, it leads you to conclusions that in the US are considered out-of-political-bounds. Things like sharply raising the level of immigration we permit, even up to a level of open borders —

    Bernie Sanders: Open borders? That’s a Koch brothers proposal.

    Ezra Klein: Really?

    Bernie Sanders: Of course. That’s a right-wing proposal which says essentially there is no United States —

    Ezra Klein: But it would make a lot of global poor richer, wouldn’t it?

    Bernie Sanders: It would make everybody in America poorer. You’re doing away with the concept of a nation-state, and I don’t think there’s any country in the world which believes in that.

    If you believe in a nation-state or in a country called the United States or UK or Denmark or any other country, you have an obligation, in my view, to do everything we can to help poor people. What right-wing people in this country would love is an open border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don’t believe in that. I think we have to raise wages in this country.

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
  50. Part of our work is recovering the Hispano-Catholic Founding of America, which, as a priest friend reminded me tonight, enjoyed a much wider geographic sphere and cultural span than did the second, Anglo Founding.— Sohrab Ahmari (@SohrabAhmari) June 22, 2019

    If reactionary Catholics want to have any success in America, perhaps they should stop being actively treasonous.

  51. anon[255] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    He’s long been an Anti-White troll. Now he’s just achieved his ultimate form as the Philosemite. Just start wait for him to start praising Kunta Kinte.

    • Replies: @utu
  52. @reiner Tor

    One thing I noticed is that the Russian language version of Wikipedia is often more information than the Ukrainian one, even on Ukrainian matters.

    As other have noted, the reach of Ukrainian is wide, but shallow.

    Though even on Russian issues, the English language wiki is more informative more often than not.

  53. utu says:
    @anon

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-post-war-france-and-post-war-germany/#comment-2409710
    So we have a very prolific, pro-Israel commenter, who generally defends the Official Narrative but does so from a rightwing perspective…

    Presumably, he’s supplementing his meager Social Security or Disability checks by doing some commenting work for the ADL or the SPLC or that sort of thing…

  54. anon[704] • Disclaimer says:

    Today is 22 June, the day of Barbarossa, the supreme unlucky day for Russia.

    Mr. Karlin wrote many interesting articles about WW2 that triggered Westerners, liberals, communists and neo-nazis alike.

    Anything more is coming?

    Why I am Not Celebrating Victory Day
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/no-victory/

    Stalin Is Not Great
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/stalin-is-not-great/

    The Soviet Victory in World War II Was a Russian One
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/soviet-victory-was-russian/

    Auschwitz and the Power of Propaganda
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/auschwitz-and-propaganda/

    Thank You Uncle Sam for Nuking the Japs
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/nuclear-altruism/

    Rapewhistling for Hitler
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/rapewhistling-for-hitler/

    General Vlasov, Soviet Patriot
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/soviet-vlasov/

    Victory Day Special: The Poisonous Myths of the Eastern Front
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/victory-day-special-myths-of-eastern-front/

    Hollywood, WW2, and the Red Army
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/hollywood-ww2-and-red-army/

    Russia’s Military Losses in WW2. A Few Puzzles.
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russias-military-losses-in-ww2-a-few-puzzles/

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  55. ANON[255] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    The Jew can’t hide his hatred for Europe. Anyway:

    judaism.is/who-is-human.html

  56. @anon

    I have been meaning to systemically address the Rezun conspiracy theory for quite a while.

    • Replies: @Adam
    , @anon
  57. iffen says:
    @utu

    I like Aaron B. as well. His mystical spiritualism routine is rather benign. However, your Jew-hatred is boring and harmful.

    BTW, my SS check is well above the average.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @utu
  58. Adam says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    TIK made an excellent video demolishing preemptive strike

  59. @iffen

    His mystical spiritualism routine is rather benign.

    His only goal is to destroy the conversation. He engages in lots of ad hominems (in fact, his whole faggy debating style seems to consist of making statements about his opponents instead of their arguments), intentionally misrepresents the views of others, tries to hit emotional trigger points, and in general wastes others’ time and breaks comment threads and channels them in idiotic directions. Basically, there’s nothing worse you could do to a comment board like this. The charitable interpretation is that he’s that stupid, but I don’t think it’s useful to be charitable here.

    Utu has something similar (though of course his oeuvre is quite different in terms of content), with his ad hominems and musings about others’ motivations, but I think overall AaronB is worse. (And I tried to converse with him as recently as two or three weeks ago, in good faith, you can check.)

    Both of them occasionally make good, or even very good comments, but it actually makes them worse. Tiny Duck style trolls are way more obvious and so less destructive.

    • Agree: Adam, Anonymoose
    • Replies: @iffen
    , @iffen
    , @Yevardian
  60. anon[650] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I have been meaning to systemically address the Rezun conspiracy theory for quite a while.

    Regardless what Mr. Unz says

    How Hitler Saved the Allies
    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-how-hitler-saved-the-allies/

    When Stalin Almost Conquered Europe
    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-when-stalin-almost-conquered-europe/

    my understanding is that Rezun’s theory is not taken seriously by professional historians anywhere, not in the West and not in Russia.

    But Rezun’s theory can be seen as way of explaining away the debacle of 1941.
    I easily grasp why it is attractive to Russians.
    “We were no useless rabble caught with our pants down! We were the greatest army in history, ready to strike and destroy the fascists once and for all, but they hit us first.”

    Psychologically, it makes sense. As conspiracy theory, it makes no sense at all.
    The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and the failure of 1941 were major embarrassments and stumbling blocks for Soviet propaganda – why would be Soviet Union hiding the fact that the pact was a ruse and it was ready to fight the fascists?

  61. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor

    His only goal is to destroy the conversation.

    Thank you, I value your opinion.

    I have never looked at his comments from this perspective. What would be his motivation for this?

    The charitable interpretation is that he’s that stupid, but I don’t think it’s useful to be charitable here.

    Obviously you think there is a lot more there.

    (And I tried to converse with him as recently as two or three weeks ago, in good faith, you can check.)

    I’ve noticed that many of the commenters here can’t (or won’t) go mano mano.

    On another thread I saw a comment that said GR had stopped commenting. Is this accurate?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  62. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor

    OT

    In my readings, I keep running across references to ‘Germans’ in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century where they are the industrialists, the entrepreneurs, the movers and shakers of the economy and so forth. Do you know if they were “real” Germans or were many of them Jews?

  63. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen

    Yes there were actual German Germans in Russia, since 17th century.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Germans_in_Russia,_Ukraine_and_the_Soviet_Union

    People in Russian Empire census were counted according to native language and religion.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire_Census

    1897 census:

    language:
    Yiddish 5,063,156
    German 1,790,489

    religion:
    Jewish 5,215,805
    Lutherans 3,572,653

    Jews who converted were converting to Orthodoxy and counted as Orthodox.

    • Replies: @iffen
  64. iffen says:
    @anon

    Thanks, anon.

    Get a tag.

  65. AaronB says:
    @Beckow

    Jews do not come close to to determining membership solely by blood descent. They are perhaps one of the worst examples of a group that does that.

    1) Only the mother must be Jewish. That is 50% non Jewish ethnicity, of any race whatsoever, is perfectly acceptable. “Almost solely by blood descent?”. Not even close.

    2) The entire Askenazi community appears to have married gentile Italian women before they spread out to Europe. Where is this insistence on ethnic purity?

    3) Conversions to Judaism are fully accepted. Of my 20 closest orthodox friends and acquaintances, 5 have married converts. One Korean, the rest European and American whites. That’s 20% genetic introfusion.

    4) Some of the most eminent figures in Judaism are of non Jewish descent, entirely or partially. The Jewish Messiah – the most seminal figure in Judaism – will come from the line of David, who is descended from Ruth, a non Jew. Not to mention, Jews greatest king, David, has non Jewish blood partially. What other people would depict their greatest heros as having foreign blood?

    There are eminent Talmudic rabbis that are listed as converts, and Onkelos, a Roman convert, is considered so authoritative that his commentary is one of the few that is published alongside the main text if every Hebrew Bible.

    what ethnic group institutionalised its special status – ‘beloved and chosen by God‘?

    Not because of any biological superiority whatsoever. Not once is it claimed that god chose Jews because they were smarter or superior or better warriors or had any biologically superior trait.

    In fact, Jewish tradition has it that God offered the Torah to all the nations of the world, and they all asked what was in it – only Jews accepted it in Faith alone.

    The lesson is obviously that Jews were not selected for any special biological superiority.

    What’s more, the bible doesn’t even depict the Jews as morally superior – they are constantly backsliding and doing evil, and several times God almost destroys them.

    God’s ethic and law – not the biological attributes of Jews – are alone considered superior.

    Finally, the very concept of being chosen to be a “light unto the nations” means the God of the Jews cares mightily for the “nations” – he is not merely making one people “special” and ignoring everyone else.

    The Jewish self-conception is the exact opposite of racial selfishness – in a sense, God chose the Jews to be servants of the nations. The whole mission of the Jews implies terrible concern for the nations.

    If the ‘superiority’ claimed was based on what you refer to as spirituality, why hasn’t that spirituality translate into day-to-day behaviour, or religious mandates, that would distinguish it was generally recognized by outsiders? In case you wonder, even a superficial reading of the last 2,000 years of Western civilization shows that the spiritual superiority claimed by Hebrews has not been accepted by anyone other than themselves (if that, most Jews I know are a bit cynical about how ‘special’ they are

    Considering that Judaism emerged in an ancient world where human sacrifice was common – the Carthaginian Moloch, and even Agamemnon sacrificed his own daughter to get favorable winds for an expedition, and other horrific practices – the Jewish ethic has indeed had a tremendous influence.

    And considering that two religions with a much higher ethic than anything the pagan world had, Christianity and Islam, emerged out of Judaism, again demonstrates the rather positive influence of Judaism.

    And finally, as long as there exist Jews who do live up to Gods ethic and continue to be a witness to Faith – a “righteous remnant” – Jews are indeed fulfilling their mission.

    That many Jews are wicked and evil merely means they are not living up to their contract with God, and will suffer for it.

    • Replies: @Anonnia
    , @reiner Tor
  66. AaronB says:
    @Epigon

    But that’s just it – Jews do not believe any glory inheres in them as flesh and blood humans, or that they are have been “born” spiritually superior.

    Those are modern concepts, materialistic concepts – they have no place in a religious culture.

    Jews have no glory, that is a foreign concept to Judaism – only God has glory, and by serving God, Jews glorify Him.

    Nation glory is a secular idea – all religions believe in glorifying God.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Anonnia
  67. Yevardian says:

    Legalising the status quo for millions of people who have mostly lived and worked for decades is not at all the same thing as open borders.In fact giving citizenship to such people would stop the exploitation of such people’s status by the construction and agricultural industries.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @notanon
  68. Yevardian says:
    @reiner Tor

    I actually like utu’s snark. AaronB is just longwinded and tiresome.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  69. @Yevardian

    Legalising the status quo for millions of people who have mostly lived and worked for decades is not at all the same thing as open borders.In fact giving citizenship to such people would stop the exploitation of such people’s status by the construction and agricultural industries.

    Americans tried that before,but the problem is that as long as there is a hundred million dark flood combined with lax national law enforcement, the problem will simply end up being recreated. So even from a purely humanitarian perspective the proposal fails.

  70. Anon[388] • Disclaimer says:
    @Abelard Lindsey

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01937-6

    Japan and Ukraine most likely to doubt safety of vaccines

    People living in wealthy countries are more likely to question the safety of vaccines than are those living in poorer ones, according to a worldwide survey on public attitudes to science and health.

    More than 140,000 people from around 140 countries gave their views on the safety and efficacy of vaccinations as part of an almost two-year project funded by London-based biomedical research charity Wellcome.

    The results of the Wellcome Global Monitor, published on 19 June, suggest that 79% of people worldwide agree, to some extent, that vaccinations are safe…

    In some regions, greater scientific knowledge was associated with less confidence in vaccines, suggesting that providing information and education might not be enough to combat scepticism.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  71. Anonnia says:
    @AaronB

    Lol at Christianity and Islam or even Jews being ethical.

  72. Anonnia says:
    @AaronB

    Agree.

    However, then you have Khalsa Panth which is Army of Akal Purakh the Immortal Lord.

  73. @iffen

    What would be his motivation for this?

    I can only speculate. For all I know, he could be a paid FBI operative (did you read that story?), but most likely he is what he says about himself. So some kind of businessman in New York who reads New Age “spiritual” mambo jambo in his free time. Also half Jewish.

    He might derive an infantile joy from destroying the conversation of people whom (or whose views) he dislikes. That’s pretty standard troll motivation. You make people upset, and then you laugh at them. It provides a sense of superiority.

    Obviously you think there is a lot more there.

    There cannot be a lot more, other than the not very likely FBI employee scenario. I mean, he’s just a troll.

    Maybe he’s not doing it deliberately (people are not always very aware of what and why they are doing), but since the end result is the same, why should I treat it differently?

    many of the commenters here can’t (or won’t) go mano mano.

    It’s a distraction. Best avoided. Either you communicate in good faith, or you don’t communicate. What could come out of fighting on the interwebs?

    On another thread I saw a comment that said GR had stopped commenting. Is this accurate?

    For a few weeks or a couple months, and comments less ever since. I occasionally do the same.

    • Replies: @iffen
  74. @iffen

    They were all gentile Germans. Jews were referred to as such. No German Jews moved to the Russian Empire ever, while the local Jews were not Germans.

    • Replies: @melanf
  75. melanf says:
    @reiner Tor

    No German Jews moved to the Russian Empire ever, while the local Jews were not Germans.

    “Russian” Jews came from Jews who migrated from medieval Germany to Poland in the 14th century. Poles settled the Jews in the Western Russian lands during colonial policy (for lands under the rule of the Russian tsars, Jews were prohibited from settling).

    But in Russia there were also a small number of “proper” German Jews – for example, composer Anton Rubinstein,

    banker and philanthropist baron Stieglitz,

    and poet Athanasius Fet (who probably did not even know about his origin).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @iffen
  76. @melanf

    German Jews are those who were in Germany in modern times, the 18th-19th centuries.

    I stand corrected regarding the small number of them in Russia, though they were also referred to as Jews and not as Germans, so my main point stands.

    • Replies: @melanf
  77. melanf says:
    @reiner Tor

    I stand corrected regarding the small number of them in Russia, though they were also referred to as Jews and not as Germans

    Rubinstein, von Stieglitz and Fet were Christians, so they were not considered Jews. A special case Afanasy Fet – his adoptive father (Russian aristocrat) traveling in Germany kidnapped the wife of a local Jewish businessman (or rather this wife ran away from her husband with her lover). And Athanasius Fet was the son of this deceived husband (which the poet probably did not even know)

  78. utu says:
    @iffen

    The “it” can’t be boring nor can’t be harmful as the ‘it’ does not exit.

  79. @Yevardian

    Utu often writes truly insane things like his joy at the thought of a nuclear war between Russia and Israel. His comments will be printed out in a smear campaign against Karlin or the Unz Review. On the other hand, he also loves blacks (but not enough to entertain their Wakanda fantasies) and constantly advocates for punching right. Add in the frequent ad hominems (there’s nothing wrong with them as long as they are accompanied by real arguments, but often they are not), and it gets pretty destructive.

    So he is a truly insane anti-Semite who nevertheless uses his anti-Jewish street cred to advocate for left-wing populist politics and punching right. Though sometimes he advocates for SVP type politics (which is rather right-wing populist in the style of Trump – but of course it’s pro-Israel, too). Anyway, he insults others for fapping on the internet (the most retarded point you can make on the internet…) and not having a coherent action plan, but then obviously fails to provide any.

    Anyway, the basic point is that AaronB is to be avoided.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Anonymoose
  80. notanon says:
    @iffen

    there were a lot of dutch/german mennonite type groups (iirc invited in by the czars to modernize farming)

    they were the “rich peasants” aka kulaks.

    iirc they all went into the gulags to be killed but international pressure from co-religionists got a lot of them out.

  81. notanon says:
    @Yevardian

    deporting them would stop the exploitation of the original population by the oligarchs who want unlimited cheap labor.

  82. FWIW rumour on 4chan that Andrew Anglin of the Daily Stormer is actually dead, site is being maintained by Weev et al.

    Seems Anglin hasn’t appeared on a podcast or similar in a while

  83. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor

    Either you communicate in good faith, or you don’t communicate.

    This is what I meant. We have had dialogue before and the only question that I remember that you never clarified or answered is that if we accept the premise that there will be way too many Africans in the future, why won’t physically and mentally stunted ones be worse.

    My 18th and 19th century Russian and European history is very weak. I never thought of Germans as some sort of economic diaspora to Russia. It makes me wonder about AK’s premise that the commies set Russia back and the flip side being that had the Revolution not occurred, Russia would have made dramatic economic progress. If the ethnic Russians had to “import” a business class how could they have progressed at the same rate as the rest of Europe. If all they had to work with were Ukrainian peasants and Russian peasants could they have ever launced Sputnik. It seems to me that the commies should get some sort of credit for opening up an Empire wide meritocracy of a sort.

  84. @Colin Wright

    Ultimately, there’s no such thing as a ‘non-Hellenic’ culture on earth, unless you want to count the Yanomami in South America and the like.

    It goes both ways. The ancient Hebrews were ethnically and culturally the same people as the Canaanites, Phoenicians and the Carthaginians. (All four are really names for different subgroups of the same people.)

    From that cultural milieu came alphabetic writing, money, international trade and both the mainstream religious traditions today. (God and Satan worship.)

    • Agree: Epigon
  85. iffen says:
    @melanf

    If all over Europe a small group of highly capable Jews were not handicapped with educational and economic measures like the vast majority, wouldn’t this have had a powerful eugenic effect?

  86. @Anon

    You’re saying injecting babies with virulent concoctions of deadly infections isn’t safe?

    Must be a crazy conspiracy theory, let’s introduce more brainwashing, er, I mean “science education”!

    P.S. The dangers of vaccines are real, but the dangers of hordes of third-world plague carriers are even more real and pressing.

  87. anonymous[714] • Disclaimer says:

    Meanwhile, there was an coup attempt in Ethiopia.

    Ethiopia is important country with great potential.
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/ethiopia/

    What will be the consequences? Will is slow or accelerate the conversion of Ethiopian Orthodox Christians to Protestantism? (probably one of the most important trends in the world)

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/ethiopia-will-be-muslim-protestant/

  88. @iffen

    I keep running across references to ‘Germans’ in Russia at the beginning of the 20th century

    From Yuri Slezkine, The Jewish Century:

    But of course the most prominent Mercurians of the Russian Empire were the Germans, who, following Peter the Great’s reforms, had come to occupy central roles in the imperial bureaucracy, economic life, and the professions (very much like Phanariot Greeks and Armenians in the Ottoman Empire). Relying on ethnic and religious autonomy, high literacy rates, strong communal institutions, a sense of cultural superiority, international familial networks, and a variety of consistently cultivated technical and linguistic skills, the Germans had become the face (the real flesh-and-blood kind) of Russia’s never-ending Westernization. Not only was the university matriculation rate among Russia’s Baltic Germans the highest in Europe (about 300 per 100,000 total population in the 1830s at Dorpat University alone); Germans composed approximately 38 percent of the graduates of Russia’s most exclusive educational institution, the Tsarskoe Selo Lycée, and a comparable proportion of the graduates from the Imperial School of Jurisprudence. From the late eighteenth to the twentieth century, Germans constituted from 18 to more than 33 percent of the top tsarist officials, especially at the royal court, in the officer corps, diplomatic service, police, and provincial administration (including many newly colonized areas). According to John A. Armstrong, all through the nineteenth century the Russian Germans “carried about half the burden of imperial foreign relations. Equally indicative is the fact that even in 1915 (during the World War I anti-Germanism), 16 of the 53 top officials in the Minindel [Ministry of Foreign Affairs] had German names. . .

    Perhaps paradoxically in light of what would happen in the twentieth century, Germans were, occupationally and conceptually, the Jews of ethnic Russia (as well as much of Eastern Europe). Or rather, the Russian Germans were to Russia what the German Jews were to Germany—only much more so. So fundamental were the German Mercurians to Russia’s view of itself that both their existence and their complete and abrupt disappearance have been routinely taken for granted. . .

    Total wars are won by modern nations, and modern nations consist of fraternal native sons. The tsarist state attempted to create a cohesive family by removing “nonnatives” without making meaningful concessions on the fraternity (equality of citizens) front. One result of this policy was the demise of the tsarist state. Another was the end of the special role of Germans as Russia’s principal Mercurians. The third was the collapse of the Pale of Settlement and the emergence of the Jews as the Mercurians of a new multinational empire

    • Replies: @iffen
  89. iffen says:
    @for-the-record

    Thanks. For some reason the fact that they spread thoughout the Empire into superior positions had not fully clicked for me.

  90. anon[167] • Disclaimer says:

    Meanwhile, the world’s preeminent knitting and crocheting community banned Donald Trump.

    https://www.ravelry.com/content/no-trump

    Yup, no Trump. No knitting and crocheting for Donald and his fans.
    This will teach them.

    • Replies: @anon
  91. @reiner Tor

    utu also takes an unironic naziphile position when discussing anything about WW2. So how does he reconcile that with his anti-IQ rants, hostility to explicit identerianism and pro-African views.Is he just a mentally ill spamtroll living in a dungeon?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  92. Epigon says:

    Since the times of Muscovy they relied on foreigners in army and navy. Long story short, look up the list of Muscovy and Russian Imperial generals and admirals on Russian wikipedia.

    Contrary to modern “human wave” misconceptions, due to small demographic base and low population density, Muscovy and Russian Empire had a significant mercenary component in the army, in case of Muscovy, the majority of officer corps were reportedly foreigners during some wars.

    Likewise, during the modernization and window to the West period – Hansa, Prussians and Swedes institued severe and sometimes capital punishment for artisans and craftsmen caught suspect of immigrating to Russia, who offered them many benefits.

    • Replies: @melanf
  93. Epigon says:

    It would be nice if some Czech or knowledgeable person shed more light on the massive protests in Czechia. Background, groups involved, public vs actual reason for protests – whenever I hear “student group organised” I reach out for my imaginary revolver.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  94. @Anonymoose

    In fairness, the Nazis had rather dim views of intelligence research as well: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?p=7472

    One of the leading German psychotechnologists was stripped of his position and sent to the Eastern Front as a private when Keitel took a disliking to him after his son got tested.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  95. @Anatoly Karlin

    Keitel had a relatively high IQ, though I guess with reversion to the mean it was not extremely high for his son. So he was probably significantly smarter than most, but not at elite level (unlike Keitel himself).

  96. vinteuil says:

    Oh no! – somehow I missed this thread, until today, and now I’m running short on time…

    I would be happy to give recs on all sorts of places and activities, though I will need some more details about what you’re interested in.

    Well, art & music, but that’s mostly taken care of (Pushkin Museum, check; Tretyakov Gallery, check; Bolshoi New Stage, check; Bolshoi Chamber Stage, check; Bolshoi Historic Stage, coming up)…

    So I guess I’d say any historic sites that might have a special importance for Russian nationalists that don’t show up on the usual tourist itinerary.

  97. anon[167] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Shame on crocheters for waiting so long.

    The world leading role playing game community banned Trump in late 2018.

    When even the most hardcore nerds are against him, Drumpf is finished.

    https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/new-ban-do-not-post-in-support-of-trump-or-his-administration.835849/

    Rpg.net bans support of Donald Trump and his administration from forums from rpg

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bj4wkq/one-of-the-oldest-online-rpg-communities-banned-pro-trump-speech

  98. anonymous[103] • Disclaimer says:

    The US Embassy held its national day reception on last Friday in Beijing at a Western hotel. For some reason, the US Embassy had to change the date of the reception. At first the hotel refused and said the changed date conflicted with an existing booking by another patron. The US Embassy then threatened the hotel to change the date anyways or suffer the withholding of business from the US Embassy for 5 years. According to a manager at the hotel, he and his colleagues couldn’t believe it and were irate at the crass behavior. But they had no choice to give in and buy out the other patron to make way for the Americans.

    This is a window into how US diplomats operate. Even at the lower levels of a US Embassy, the personnel find this kind of menacing behavior perfectly normal. Considering how many big Western hotels there are in Beijing that could fit 1,200 guests in a ballroom, I’m not sure it was necessary to insist on this particular hotel. Americans in foreign policy must be used to intimidation as a first choice.

  99. anonymous[256] • Disclaimer says:
    @Epigon

    It would be nice if some Czech or knowledgeable person shed more light on the massive protests in Czechia.

    This guy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrej_Babi%C5%A1

    Prime Minister and one of the richest oligarchs of Czechia, one of perfect specimens what AK calls “swine right”.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/the-rights-human-capital-problem/

    https://sceptremag.com/2017/11/22/eastern-europe-and-the-swine-right/

    Communist who reinvented himself as big capitalist, Slovakian-Polish-German-Hungarian cross-breed who made himself “Czech patriot”.

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cs&u=https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodina_Andreje_Babi%25C5%25A1e

    The usual story in the post-Soviet world.

    The official cause is supposed to be about misplaced 50M CZK (2M EUR, a pocket change in the world of big players).

    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cs&u=https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauza_%25C4%258Cap%25C3%25AD_hn%25C3%25ADzdo

    The real cause:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrej_Babiš

    Babiš rejected the European Union’s refugee quotas,[42] saying: “I will not accept refugee quotas [for the Czech Republic]. … We must react to the needs and fears of the citizens of our country. We must guarantee the security of Czech citizens. Even if we are punished by sanctions.

    In June 2018, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said that there had been “no moral or political justification” for the post-war expulsion of ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia. Babiš responded: “I reject this characterisation – especially when we recall the horrors of Heydrich, Lidice, Ležáky and the killing of our paratroopers. I have the feeling that there is some internal political struggle in Germany now, and it is very unfortunate that old wounds are opening because of it.

  100. melanf says:
    @Epigon

    Muscovy and Russian Empire had a significant mercenary component in the army, in case of Muscovy, the majority of officer corps were reportedly foreigners during some wars.

    These are clear myths

    • Replies: @iffen
  101. iffen says:
    @melanf

    Russian Empire had a significant mercenary component in the army

    No Cossacks anywhere, ever?

    • Replies: @melanf
  102. melanf says:
    @iffen

    No Cossacks anywhere, ever?

    Cossacks were not foreign mercenaries

    • Replies: @iffen
  103. Karlin, did you know that this week is a fasting week in the western version of the Orthodox calendar? It is thus appropriate that you are doing your electrolyte augmented fast this week.

  104. iffen says:
    @melanf

    Cossacks were not foreign mercenaries

    Well, you got me there.

    foederati/mercenary

    tomayto/tomahto

    • Replies: @melanf
  105. melanf says:
    @iffen

    Cossacks were not foreign mercenaries

    Well, you got me there.

    foederati/mercenary

    Cossacks were originally semi-independent (from the state) pirates, later – a special class that carried out military service in exchange for preferential ownership of land. They can be considered mercenaries, but they were never foreign mercenaries (otherwise Francis Drake should be considered a foreign mercenary ).

  106. iffen says:

    Francis Drake should be considered a foreign mercenary

    How so? I thought he was a successful English privateer.

    • Replies: @melanf
  107. melanf says:
    @iffen

    And Cossacks were Russian privateers

    • Replies: @iffen
  108. iffen says:
    @melanf

    And Cossacks were Russian …

    What year did they become Russians?

    • Replies: @melanf
  109. melanf says:
    @iffen

    What year did they become Russians?

    Cossacks have always been Russian. Cossack is a word about the same as filibuster or Viking, that is, means a way of life but not a nationality.

    • Replies: @iffen
  110. iffen says:
    @melanf

    How stupid of me to start a dialogue over whether a group is “Russian” in AK’s comment section.

  111. Is anyone here familiar with the work of Vladislav Inozemtsev? He use to work for Mikhail Prokhorov as a political advisor. Just wanted to know what his political skew is and if his commentary on Russian affairs is reliable. Is he a pro-Western stooge ?

  112. For the love of God, no one do anything crazy with bitcoin, such as borrowing smallish sums to buy more like I fear I will do.

    And don’t sell! It’s impossible to predict medium term swings. The thesis is, long term, BTC hits somewhere between $300k and $4 million. Wait until it’s in the six figures to start selling, and then only sell fractions of your holdings. It will take great heroism to do this. Buy BTC every time you get paid, but try to be steady about it, try to ignore the price.

    maybe it won’t work out, but HODL so you get to be rich in the timeline where there’s BTC final victory, dominance of settlement payments large and small, denominated in local fiat. No half measures!

  113. anon[897] • Disclaimer says:

    Here’s an incredible account of how the United States p*ssed away its military industrial base through Wall Street stock price obsession and deregulation:

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/americas-monopoly-crisis-hits-the-military/

    It turns out that the US is now totally dependent on the Chinese for several key weap0ns components, all of which would be halted in a war with China. The US may not even be able to prosecute a serious conflict with this country, even now, under this procurement system. It also explains how Huawei came to dominate, mostly through American obsession with market-capitalism, deregulation, and lack of government oversight.

  114. Mitleser says:
    @Anonymoose

    Protip: Use achieve.fo, so that others can read the article: http://archive.fo/hLcZ7

    Otherwise, PUTLER will use his wise owls and great fire power to send you in the next world.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  115. @Mitleser

    Based af:

    In an FT interview in the Kremlin on the eve of the G20 summit in Osaka, Japan, the Russian president said “the liberal idea” had “outlived its purpose” as the public turned against immigration, open borders and multiculturalism.

    Mr Putin’s evisceration of liberalism — the dominant western ideology since the end of the second world war in 1945 — chimes with anti-establishment leaders from US president Donald Trump to Hungary’s Viktor Orban, Matteo Salvini in Italy, and the Brexit insurgency in the UK.

    “[Liberals] cannot simply dictate anything to anyone just like they have been attempting to do over the recent decades,” he said.

    Mr Putin branded Chancellor Angela Merkel’s decision to admit more than 1m refugees to Germany, mainly from war-ravaged Syria, as a “cardinal mistake”. But he praised Donald Trump for trying to stop the flow of migrants and drugs from Mexico.

    “This liberal idea presupposes that nothing needs to be done. That migrants can kill, plunder and rape with impunity because their rights as migrants have to be protected.”

    He added: “Every crime must have its punishment. The liberal idea has become obsolete. It has come into conflict with the interests of the overwhelming majority of the population.”

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  116. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    I’m reading this interview now – it is typical Putin, where he is too clever for this interviewer, and also to represent his own policy.

    Putin has for many years created the most open borders policy structure,* of any major leader probably in the world (excluding perhaps EU or Merkel) – as a result, he knows he is safer using some “close border rhetoric” from Trump and Orban, which he views popular with those two, and which will cover what he actually does.

    It’s an area where he is politically vulnerable – not really in the West, but domestically quite.

    Putin is an example of when your leader has too many IQ points tries to talk about an area where he is vulnerable politically.

    Simple politician (Orban, Trump, Merkel, etc) – choose policy and try to defend verbally it.

    Complicated politician- choose policy, then try to defend five different opposing policies, so somehow you can win all sides of the argument, while less people criticize what policy you actually chose.

    * I wrote an commentary on this topic earlier this month
    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-renames-its-airports/#comment-3248636

    Full interview, without Financial Times paywall – just click an article through a share wrapped link

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Dmitry
    , @Mitleser
  117. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Here is a very correct quote of Putin in this Financial Times interview, however:

    How long will Russia remain a stable country? The longer the better. Because very many other things and its position in the world depend on stability, on internal political stability. Ultimately, the wellbeing of the people depends, possibly primarily, on stability.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  118. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    And some accurate diagnosis:

    But the most important task we need to achieve is to change the structure of the economy and secure a substantial growth of labour productivity through modern technologies, Artificial Intelligence, robotics and so on.

    But this witty joke, a bit tasteless:

    You know, first of all, we do not have oligarchs any more.

  119. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Liberal bloggers (in the liberal blogging sphere) are already laughing this afternoon, about these comments on immigration in today’s Financial Times.
    https://varlamov.ru/3497241.html#cutid1

    i.e. “Putin promotes immigration and multiculturalism in Russia, while criticizes it in America.”

    Funny relevant to our forum – Putin’s position reminds me of an inversion of the conspiracy theory about Israel which was promoted here. People here said. Israel promotes immigration in America, while condemning it in Israel (actually Israel is liberal to illegal immigrants, although not yet legalizing their status).

    But Putin is promoting immigration in home, while criticizes immigration to America and Germany. He follows the opposite of the “immigration conspiracy”.

  120. Mitleser says:
    @Dmitry

    Your share wrapped link does not work.
    Use Kremlin link: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/60836

  121. Treat or Trick?

    Boston Globe: “In an astonishing turn, George Soros and Charles Koch team up to end US ‘forever war’ policy”

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2019/06/30/soros-and-koch-brothers-team-end-forever-war-policy/WhyENwjhG0vfo9Um6Zl0JO/story.html

  122. @Hail

    Well, scratch Bernie then. I guess we’re now down to Tulsi Gabbard. I’m just waiting for her to fuck up so I can skip voting next year …

  123. China is considered to have won the trade war by this author:

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-trade-war-is-over-and-china-won-2019-07-01

    Is he wrong?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  124. Adam says:

    AK, can you explain what’s happening in the Russian right? One of the main Russian nationalists became a russophobe? Something about gypsies? Seems like very blackpilling stuff, apparently the right is filled with useless autists everywhere.

    • Replies: @anon
  125. anon[402] • Disclaimer says:
    @Adam

    AK, can you explain what’s happening in the Russian right? One of the main Russian nationalists became a russophobe? Something about gypsies? Seems like very blackpilling stuff, apparently the right is filled with useless autists everywhere.

    TL;DR:
    One of big name Russian nationalists was found to be great grandson of Chekist mass murderer. Hilarity ensues.

    This is what happens when you base your identity on “noble blood” and “racial pride” – when it is found you have nothing to be proud about, you are fucked.
    See also the case of Elizabeth Warren 😉

  126. Mitleser says:
    @reiner Tor

    Yes

    But we don’t have to wait that long. We’ve had two cave-ins on major Chinese companies in one year.

    https://www.commerce.gov/news/press-releases/2018/07/commerce-department-lifts-ban-after-zte-deposits-final-tranche-14

    “While we lifted the ban on ZTE, the Department will remain vigilant as we closely monitor ZTE’s actions to ensure compliance with all U.S. laws and regulations,” said Secretary Ross. “Three interlocking elements – a suspended denial order, the $400 million in escrow, and a compliance team selected by and answerable to the Department – will allow the Department to protect U.S. national security.”

    The $1.4 billion paid under the new settlement agreement are in addition to the $892 million in penalties ZTE has already paid to the U.S government under a March 2017 settlement agreement.

    ZTE will also be required by the new agreement to retain a team of special compliance coordinators selected by and answerable to the Department’s Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) for a period of 10 years. Their function will be to monitor on a real-time basis ZTE’s compliance with U.S. export control laws. This is the first time BIS has achieved such stringent compliance measures in any case. The new agreement once again imposes a denial order that is suspended, this time for 10 years, which BIS can activate in the event of additional violations during the ten-year probationary period. Finally, ZTE also has replaced the entire board of directors and senior leadership for both entities.

    How is that supposed to be a cave-in?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  127. @Mitleser

    Well, it was a cave-in only if idea was not to make ZTE comply with the stupid American embargo on Iran, and milk them for some cash, but to disrupt China’s rise on the technological ladder. All they have done is alerted the Chinese to American ability to disrupt their tech ecology, while not stopping their technological catch-up.

    And in the case of Huawei they didn’t even milk them, nor changed their board of directors, did they?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  128. Mitleser says:
    @reiner Tor

    ZTE nearly getting wiped out suggests that ZTE is not much of a factor in China’s rise on the technological ladder.
    In case they become more important, US-American supervision could help to trump uo a charge against them that sticks.

    And Huawei is still on the so-called Entity List. It is not over yet.

    The Commerce Department is apparently still treating Huawei as blacklisted. This news comes despite President Donald Trump’s announcement that he’d ease limitations on companies selling equipment to the Chinese telecom.

    A senior official emailed enforcement staff Monday to assert that Huawei remains on its Entity List and that a “presumption of denial” licensing policy is still in place, Reuters reports.

    The email came two days after Trump agreed to lift some restrictions he put in place with a May executive order in an effort to kickstart trade talks with Chinese President Xi Jinping. After that, National Economic Council Chairman Larry Kudlow noted that US companies can only sell widely available products to Huawei.

    https://www.cnet.com/news/commerce-department-still-considers-huawei-blacklisted-despite-trumps-deal/

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  129. @Mitleser

    And now there’s news that China demands a total abolition of all tariffs introduced since the beginning of the trade war. So maybe it was a fake agreement?

    https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3017295/china-insists-us-must-remove-all-trade-war-tariffs-part-deal

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