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moscow-swpl

More SWPL in Moscow – this place was a car park/dump a few years ago.

My glorious NEETdom will (partially) end from the start of October. While I was never enthusiastic about getting a real job, this one happens to be centered around the intersection of Russian demographics, economics, and psychometrics. So it’s essentially a continuation of my existing hobbies, and attendance requirements are lax. This is perfectly synchronized with my blog’s content, so I don’t even expect content production here to suffer.

I am also contributing to a website that will help countervent censorship of the altsphere. It’s still in the beta phase, so I can’t say too much about it yet.

Remont (=renovation; but even all the expats call it a remont) is almost finished. Hopefully I can move into my apartment in a week’s time.

An alt right blogger recently recommended me Keybase. Quite a few of my acquaintances in the Alt Right are interested in censorship-resistant payment systems, and I will admit to having some curiosity as well; never know when it might come in handy. Anyone kind enough to give me the 101 on it?

As always, donations are appreciated – http://akarlin.com/donations/

***

Featured

* I haven’t been following the Kavanaugh affair closely enough to have any good opinions. FWIW PredictIt currently gives him a 60% chance of becoming SCOTUS judge, but it fluctuates wildly on the latest news.

Obviously the accusations are almost certainly false, and ludicrous to an almost “Rape on Campus” degree (though as Steve points out being wrong hasn’t stopped the Blue Checkmark mob).

The affair does seem to back observations that US society is becoming extremely polarized.

* Musk seems to be in a lot of trouble. Congrats Thorfinnsson.

* SAD. Nature: How DNA fends off a favourite gene-editing tool. Using CRISPR for certain genetic edits might be far harder than expected.

***

Russia

* Jon Hellevig: The Case Against Thomas Piketty. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. The true level of income and wealth inequality in Russia.

* Ben Aris: $500+ billion capital flight from Russia since 1994

* Leonid Bershidsky: Russia’s Thugs May Be Too Much for Its Technocrats. Hard to deny this, given recent events. OTOH, I wonder if it’s even possible to run a “based” state without thugs.

* BLAST FROM THE PAST. Putin suggested to visiting German business in Saint-Petersburg in 1993 that Russia should spend some time as a regime modeled after that of Pinochet.

* Higher School of Economics study [in Russian]: Russia’s more religious (Orthodox) regions have similar fertility rates and divorce rates to the rest of Russia, but lower crime, and much lower HIV prevalence rates. (Being religion-hating liberals, the HSE people “predict” that those Russian regions may become “zones of social dysfunction,” like the Bible Belt in the US. I assume it’s because Negroes will settle those areas come Tropical Hyperborea.)

* My Twitter thread on Russian life expectancy and alcoholism in response to a question from WW2 historian Mark Harrison:

***

World News

* BLACKPILL. Audacious Epigone: Throwing November.

* SINOTRIUMPH: Godfree Roberts: Trade War III.

His Maoism is nonsense, and even his degree of Sinotriumph is too much even for me, but the comments on quotes on Chinese performance on PISA are real and important.

* AMEROTRIUMPH. Satyajit Das: How the U.S. Has Weaponized the Dollar

economist-povert-africa

* OUR BIOREALISTIC FUTURE. Economist: Poverty is becoming almost exclusively African. Logical.

* Diversity Macht Frei: More “British Jews” in the IDF Than British Armed Forces.

I knew this was the case for Muslims (probably a good thing – British SSBNs don’t have PAL protections against unauthorized launch), but it’s interesting that it applies to Jews too.

* Greg Hood: Race is the Main Political Divide

* Buzzfeed: A Leaked Video Shows Google Leadership Reacting To Trump’s 2016 Election Win

***

Science & Culture

* X RISKS. Robin Hanson marks 20 years since he introduced The Great Filter to the world.

* DESTRUCTION OF THE CITIES. Matt Forney pens one of the best Bronze Age Mindset reviews for his literary project Terror House Magazine.

* Scott Alexander reviews The Black Swan. Book reviews lie on a power-law distribution?

* I noted the weak presence of Russia (and China) in PC video games.

But there’s a new free to play game on Steam made by Tencent called Ring of Elysium, which is a battle royale like PUBG/Fortnite. You start off an a mountain top and need to ski/paraglide your way down to a rescue helicopter in the middle of a post-apocalyptic blizzard, which picking off other skier-survivalists. This sounds like the best plot ever to me.

* RT: Sweden turns Pippi Longstocking into homeless Roma migrant living in Stockholm ghetto

* Audacious Epigone: MGTOW vs. “How to get a girlfriend” in Google Searches

***

Powerful Takes

* Literally worse than Hitler!

utu-sailer-worse-than-hitler

* “Western Russophiles” in a nutshell.

take-western-russophilia

* Reaching levels of multi-dimensional chess that shouldn’t even be possible!

unz-clever-plan

***

 
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  1. Russia’s more religious (Orthodox) regions have similar fertility rates and divorce rates to the rest of Russia, but lower crime, and much lower HIV prevalence rates.

    Main transmitter of HIV is used of injected opiates (mainly heroin).

    So study which should be commissioned from this, is possibility of inverse correlation between religious prevalence and rates of heroin use, in an area.

    If religious prevalence and rates of heroin are able to substitute for each other, then empirical support for Marx’s connection (“Religion is opium of the people”).

    • Replies: @Talha
    Actually, if he would have stuck around, he would have concluded; opium is the religion of the masses.

    Peace.
    , @Hyperborean

    If religious prevalence and rates of heroin are able to substitute for each other, then empirical support for Marx’s connection (“Religion is opium of the people”).
     
    Too literal. Opiates were used to sedate people in pain at the time, so Marx's meaning was more similar to 'religion helps people ignore the pains of oppressive society through the creation of a veil of pleasure and illusion'.

    This was a precursor to the ideas of False Consciousness which were developed by Marxist theorists as a synthesis of the idea that 'Communism is inevitable as the proletariat wakes up and throws off its shakles' and the antithesis that in reality many commoners didn't agitate in favour of Communism.

  2. Jared Taylor of AmRen mentioned in his latest podcast that he had been to Poland in the last week and spoken in front of the All-Polish Youth at two seperate ocassions. They are very religious – and hence I tend to avoid them – but this is a very good sign. In the aftermath of the last independence march, some of their spokesmen started to spout moronic talking points about ‘muh based black men > white communists’. Jared is not exactly shy on his views on race, so my principal criticism that a lot of Polish nationalist groups are too religious civnats is being ameliorated.

    In general, I have seen a strong surge away from religion and towards race in the last couple of years. Wykop, the Polish reddit, has consistently had race realist submissions at the top of its front-page lately. It is a very popular normie-tier website, which makes that all the more remarkable. One of the things I love about living in Poland is our pro-free speech mentality. I can’t even imagine reddit allowing a self-post about fullblown race realism rising to the top of the front page and staying there. I can’t even imagine the userbase voting it up either.

    Another sign of the generational divide is that there was recently a Polish film mocking the catholic clergy and all the PiS boomers were outraged but most of the Wykop userbase joined in on the ridicule. The pedo scandals certainly haven’t helped. I think our leftists are still in a state where they think that Catholicism is the end-all be-all, sort of how white liberals in the US obsessed about Christian evangelicals during the Bush era. But this is decreasingly relevant as you go down the age brackets. A lot of these establishment leftists are they themselves in their 40s, 50s or even 60s and they grew up in a much more religious – but also more naïve – Poland which was quite closed off from the world.

    I’ve mentioned before that I expect Poland to be ~10% non-white by 2030 (assuming a large immigration surge in the 2020s once/when PiS loses power to the neoliberal EU-slaves, á la how Blair opened the floodgates in the UK in the 1990s). But by 2030, things should get quite a lot better than it is now, as the boomers start to die off. In fact, I’m surprised how fast the discourse on the internet and among the young is already changing.

    • Replies: @Talha
    File under Exhibit #4543 for "Post-Christian Europe" and a warning to any Muslims observing. If you think there are problems in the Muslim world now, you haven't seen anything yet; if the Muslim world becomes post-Islam - societies will rip themselves apart along ethnic lines that might make WW2 look tame.

    This kind of thing would be a relic of the past:
    "Circassian guards, who have served Jordan's kings since the founding of the monarchy, still adhere to their ancient traditions, such as donning an incongruous cold weather uniform of black wool hats, red capes and leather boots in this desert climate."
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3422250/Rare-look-world-Jordan-royals-Circassian-guards.html

    Peace.
    , @AP
    It would be better to fix problems in the Church and with the hierarchs than to abandon religion. Never mind souls, even from a practical standpoint so far there has never been a really successful post-religious society, it's a dangerous experiment.
    , @szopen
    Well, I'm an atheist but I think that religion does give some kind of social cohesion and helps keeping social peace. I would prefer to have a national church; or even better, if 90% of Poles start to believe Poles are chosen nation much better than the rest of the world :D. I mean, I do not believe that, but it would do wonders for being resistant to immigration-is-always-good nonsense.
    , @utu
    Central European countries like V4 were shielded from experiences with other races. Unlike in the US or in your South Africa there was no need to develop racialist or racists doctrines. Racialist doctrines are incompatible with Catholicism while many Protestants churches were racists. However Catholicism can be easily adapted to ethno-nationalism within which the native population and society will be protected from immigration w/o invoking toxic racist ideas one is bound to develop in South Africa. The ethno-nationalism is better because it protects against hostile ethnicities of the same race.
  3. @Dmitry

    Russia’s more religious (Orthodox) regions have similar fertility rates and divorce rates to the rest of Russia, but lower crime, and much lower HIV prevalence rates.
     
    Main transmitter of HIV is used of injected opiates (mainly heroin).

    So study which should be commissioned from this, is possibility of inverse correlation between religious prevalence and rates of heroin use, in an area.

    If religious prevalence and rates of heroin are able to substitute for each other, then empirical support for Marx's connection ("Religion is opium of the people").

    Actually, if he would have stuck around, he would have concluded; opium is the religion of the masses.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well, Jung says something like drug-addict, is man in search of religion.

    So Mac Miller's problem, was the quality of his drugs supply.

    You can know which dudes selling really "good shit", from their "wild clothes" and when they have their own trains.

    https://espreso.tv/uploads/article/191195/images/im578x383-Kyrylo_Train_Inside.censor.net.ua.jpg

    https://espreso.tv/uploads/article/191195/images/im578x383-Kyrylo_Train_Ikona.charter97.jpg
  4. SAD. Nature: How DNA fends off a favourite gene-editing tool. Using CRISPR for certain genetic edits might be far harder than expected.

    Has it occurred to people that perhaps this is a fail-safe that was achieved over millions and millions of years of development of organisms in order to protect from the adverse effects of, say, a virus or something else that could alter genetic code in order to exploit a vulnerability. And that perhaps there was a conflict of this nature in the distant past that led to this limitation surviving and perpetuating itself forward?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    But Talha, that would mean the dream of absolute human control - total security and banishing of anxiety - was impossible.

    As I mentioned on the Fred thread, a scientific theory is selected based on how much control it is perceived to confer. Actual benefit is secondary.

    If we figure out that we are most benefited by leaving a process alone, this would be anathema to the scientific mind - such a discovery would be ignored, and a theory that gave the illusion of control would be preferred.

    The optimistic thing in my view is that the way out is through - we must continue this project of total control, increase it and amplify it, intensify it, spontaneity must be banished and more and more areas of our life must be brought under rigid control, or rather the illusion of control.

    Game substitutes an illusion of control for actual effectiveness - what I want to see is more areas of our life also rigidly controlled. Recreation and entertainment should be the next area. We should not be able to have fun or enjoy ourselves without rigid rules and complex theories of control. Friendships also should be brought under the control of rules.

    It has become absolutely clear to me that you will never convince the control-people of the futility and pointlessness of their grand project - and its harmfullness. Not only do they kill joy, but the the very thing they are grasping after, absolute security, recedes the more they try and wrap their lives in ironclad certainty.

    You cannot talk them out of their anxiety - their anxiety is existential, based on a wrong view of life that is deeply embedded in their personality structure. They think they are desperate from the universe and must control it.

    No, what you must do is encourage them to carry out their convictions as far as possible - a reductio ad absurdum. Only then will they see the absurdity of it all - and learn to laugh for the first time. (Notice how grim everyone here is)

    This will take decades. But it is the only way. Science, scientism, every kind of control and rule making, Progress, must all be maximally encouraged among those who seek control.
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Meh. So's the blood-brain barrier, but we get through it pretty easily now.

    I imagine we'll find a way.
  5. @Polish Perspective
    Jared Taylor of AmRen mentioned in his latest podcast that he had been to Poland in the last week and spoken in front of the All-Polish Youth at two seperate ocassions. They are very religious - and hence I tend to avoid them - but this is a very good sign. In the aftermath of the last independence march, some of their spokesmen started to spout moronic talking points about 'muh based black men > white communists'. Jared is not exactly shy on his views on race, so my principal criticism that a lot of Polish nationalist groups are too religious civnats is being ameliorated.

    In general, I have seen a strong surge away from religion and towards race in the last couple of years. Wykop, the Polish reddit, has consistently had race realist submissions at the top of its front-page lately. It is a very popular normie-tier website, which makes that all the more remarkable. One of the things I love about living in Poland is our pro-free speech mentality. I can't even imagine reddit allowing a self-post about fullblown race realism rising to the top of the front page and staying there. I can't even imagine the userbase voting it up either.

    Another sign of the generational divide is that there was recently a Polish film mocking the catholic clergy and all the PiS boomers were outraged but most of the Wykop userbase joined in on the ridicule. The pedo scandals certainly haven't helped. I think our leftists are still in a state where they think that Catholicism is the end-all be-all, sort of how white liberals in the US obsessed about Christian evangelicals during the Bush era. But this is decreasingly relevant as you go down the age brackets. A lot of these establishment leftists are they themselves in their 40s, 50s or even 60s and they grew up in a much more religious - but also more naïve - Poland which was quite closed off from the world.

    I've mentioned before that I expect Poland to be ~10% non-white by 2030 (assuming a large immigration surge in the 2020s once/when PiS loses power to the neoliberal EU-slaves, á la how Blair opened the floodgates in the UK in the 1990s). But by 2030, things should get quite a lot better than it is now, as the boomers start to die off. In fact, I'm surprised how fast the discourse on the internet and among the young is already changing.

    File under Exhibit #4543 for “Post-Christian Europe” and a warning to any Muslims observing. If you think there are problems in the Muslim world now, you haven’t seen anything yet; if the Muslim world becomes post-Islam – societies will rip themselves apart along ethnic lines that might make WW2 look tame.

    This kind of thing would be a relic of the past:
    “Circassian guards, who have served Jordan’s kings since the founding of the monarchy, still adhere to their ancient traditions, such as donning an incongruous cold weather uniform of black wool hats, red capes and leather boots in this desert climate.”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3422250/Rare-look-world-Jordan-royals-Circassian-guards.html

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Polish Perspective
    Islam is a very authoritarian religion, likely because its leader understood his own people all too well. I've read a lot of sociological material on schools in Western Europe and one of the recurring themes is that you have white liberal teachers naïvely thinking that the same rules which applies for white kids must also apply for muslim kids. After all, race-blind liberalism is the dogma which they were fed all their lives.

    Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn't need to beat the kids to get them to behave.

    Naturally, this does not work well. Hence, chaos is ever-present. The quotes which keep coming back when the 2nd gen immigrant kids are interviewed keep being "the teacher must show more authority". So, I do think you're right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that. Then again, I don't necessarily think Christianity is the solution either.

    There was a great article on the huge surge of violence in Latin America published a week ago. Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population. Mexico and Brazil are both quite religious, certainly far more than even Poland.
    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.

    I have sometimes come across the claim, from US conservatives, that the reason why there was much less dysfunction among US blacks pre-1960s was because the culture was more wholesome(which equates to more religious in their mind). I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to. Overwhelming white repression, unquestionably white authority and unbridled white institutional power made sure that there was no opportunity, chiefly view the Jim Crow laws that were ruthlessly enforced.

    As the civil rights era came, these repressions went away and violence skyrocketed in the 60s(as Sailer has written about many times). So I am in general skeptical about the role of religion here, though I will concede that heavily religious societies tend to have less bad shit like feminism, tranny BS etc. The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race. Religious groups which are tied to ethnicity (such as Jews) don't mind this, because they can always appeal to religious sentiment. Which is why US conservatives are the most philosemitic and the biggest shabbos goyim for Israel there is.

  6. One more piece of good news. As I was reading Foreign Affairs in the university library this morning (gotta keep up with ZOG) to my great astonishment, I found a balanced and frankly critical book review about Western coverage of Russia written in conjunction with some recent book releases on Russia (Gessen, Shaun Walker of Guardian fame and Serhii Plokhii).

    The author pointed out that all these three authors shared a very contrived view of Russia, in that they viewed Russian civil society as desolate and lifeless, that is is merely an artificial creation by the Russian state. Invented to serve a repressive purpose. In other words, politics comes first and the culture is modified for its ends.

    He attacked this view head-on. He forcefully argued that Putin is in fact a creation of Russian society and not the other way around. He even went into AK’s talking points about Lenin being anti-Russian(!), how Lenin had suppressed Russian identity and viewed ‘Russian chauvinism’ as a great threat. I couldn’t believe what I was reading. He also threw shade on the notion that Putin is unpopular and only in power due to massive repression. There was also plenty of harsh words reserved for coverage of Russia, and how it is inextricably tied up in Western fantasies of Russia being a puppet like most of CEE has become to the US-led order. When Russia inevitably disappoints the role of servility, rage ensues.

    The main problem, in his view, is that Western coverage of Russia refuses to engage actual Russian civil society, partly for the aforementioned reasons but also, frankly, because many of the social choices taken by Russians are inimical to neoliberal preferences. Putin’s Orthodoxy should be seen as an outgrowth of the Russian people’s will instead of purely being seen through a cynical lens of Putin doing yet another move to solidify power (by all accounts, he is genuinely religious).

    That all said, will it have an effect on Western Discourse? Considering that the same magazine had a deranged article by Michael McFaul in the same issue on the topic of Russia, perhaps we shouldn’t get our hopes up just yet. But, there are at least some sane voices out there and Foreign Affairs is the go-to magazine for the US foreign policy elite, so that’s something. The article can be found here. Ignore the somewhat hostile title, the actual text is quite good.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    The still not dead Henry Kissinger is sane and about as Establishment it gets. He promotes allying with Russia to contain China.

    Gets very little traction.

    Likewise, the actual President of the United States more or less shares this view.

    Still apparently does not matter.

    I am deeply pessimistic about this, and what I've learned in the past two years is that we need a fascist dictatorship with massive purges.
  7. Ukraine keeps winning. 3.8% GDP growth in the second quarter of 2018, which makes it the 11th straight quarter of GDP growth. Given the people leaving ot work abroad, this makes per capita growth much higher.

    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-economy/2548250-ukraines-gdp-growing-for-11-quarters-in-a-row.html

    There has been some chemical accident at a plant in Crimea, children being evacuated:

    https://www.dw.com/en/crimea-mysterious-chemical-incident-evokes-memories-of-chernobyl-disaster/a-45376308

    Ukrainian media portray it as proof that Crimea is falling apart after coming under Russian rule, which is probably absurd. But if the same thing had happened at a plant outside Kiev, Russian media would undoubtedly run with the same interpretation and someone like Felix would believe it.

    • Replies: @Jon0815

    Ukraine keeps winning. 3.8% GDP growth in the second quarter of 2018, which makes it the 11th straight quarter of GDP growth. Given the people leaving ot work abroad, this makes per capita growth much higher.
     
    Not much higher. World Bank puts Ukraine's 2017 GDP growth at 2.5%, vs. per capita GDP growth of 2.95%. And for a country as poor as Ukraine, 4% per capita growth is nothing to brag about. At a similar level of per capita GDP, Belarus had per capita growth of 12%, Kazakhstan 9%, and Russia 8%.
  8. @Polish Perspective
    Jared Taylor of AmRen mentioned in his latest podcast that he had been to Poland in the last week and spoken in front of the All-Polish Youth at two seperate ocassions. They are very religious - and hence I tend to avoid them - but this is a very good sign. In the aftermath of the last independence march, some of their spokesmen started to spout moronic talking points about 'muh based black men > white communists'. Jared is not exactly shy on his views on race, so my principal criticism that a lot of Polish nationalist groups are too religious civnats is being ameliorated.

    In general, I have seen a strong surge away from religion and towards race in the last couple of years. Wykop, the Polish reddit, has consistently had race realist submissions at the top of its front-page lately. It is a very popular normie-tier website, which makes that all the more remarkable. One of the things I love about living in Poland is our pro-free speech mentality. I can't even imagine reddit allowing a self-post about fullblown race realism rising to the top of the front page and staying there. I can't even imagine the userbase voting it up either.

    Another sign of the generational divide is that there was recently a Polish film mocking the catholic clergy and all the PiS boomers were outraged but most of the Wykop userbase joined in on the ridicule. The pedo scandals certainly haven't helped. I think our leftists are still in a state where they think that Catholicism is the end-all be-all, sort of how white liberals in the US obsessed about Christian evangelicals during the Bush era. But this is decreasingly relevant as you go down the age brackets. A lot of these establishment leftists are they themselves in their 40s, 50s or even 60s and they grew up in a much more religious - but also more naïve - Poland which was quite closed off from the world.

    I've mentioned before that I expect Poland to be ~10% non-white by 2030 (assuming a large immigration surge in the 2020s once/when PiS loses power to the neoliberal EU-slaves, á la how Blair opened the floodgates in the UK in the 1990s). But by 2030, things should get quite a lot better than it is now, as the boomers start to die off. In fact, I'm surprised how fast the discourse on the internet and among the young is already changing.

    It would be better to fix problems in the Church and with the hierarchs than to abandon religion. Never mind souls, even from a practical standpoint so far there has never been a really successful post-religious society, it’s a dangerous experiment.

    • Agree: utu
  9. @Talha
    Actually, if he would have stuck around, he would have concluded; opium is the religion of the masses.

    Peace.

    Well, Jung says something like drug-addict, is man in search of religion.

    So Mac Miller’s problem, was the quality of his drugs supply.

    You can know which dudes selling really “good shit”, from their “wild clothes” and when they have their own trains.

    • Replies: @Talha
    I have never really understood this part of the church and I can see why it would invite cynicism and ridicule. If our ulema rode like that, I'd be seriously disappointed - but that's just our perspective. Religious leadership getting a class distinction is not something I'm used to. Here is one of the most respected and most knowledgeable scholars in the world, the former Grand Mufti of Pakistan - Taqi Usmani, take a noon nap while he was doing a recent tour of Lebanon - I think he is almost 75 years old:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEUN9D3XgAE6G8G.jpg

    Peace.
  10. @Talha
    File under Exhibit #4543 for "Post-Christian Europe" and a warning to any Muslims observing. If you think there are problems in the Muslim world now, you haven't seen anything yet; if the Muslim world becomes post-Islam - societies will rip themselves apart along ethnic lines that might make WW2 look tame.

    This kind of thing would be a relic of the past:
    "Circassian guards, who have served Jordan's kings since the founding of the monarchy, still adhere to their ancient traditions, such as donning an incongruous cold weather uniform of black wool hats, red capes and leather boots in this desert climate."
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3422250/Rare-look-world-Jordan-royals-Circassian-guards.html

    Peace.

    Islam is a very authoritarian religion, likely because its leader understood his own people all too well. I’ve read a lot of sociological material on schools in Western Europe and one of the recurring themes is that you have white liberal teachers naïvely thinking that the same rules which applies for white kids must also apply for muslim kids. After all, race-blind liberalism is the dogma which they were fed all their lives.

    Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn’t need to beat the kids to get them to behave.

    Naturally, this does not work well. Hence, chaos is ever-present. The quotes which keep coming back when the 2nd gen immigrant kids are interviewed keep being “the teacher must show more authority”. So, I do think you’re right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that. Then again, I don’t necessarily think Christianity is the solution either.

    There was a great article on the huge surge of violence in Latin America published a week ago. Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population. Mexico and Brazil are both quite religious, certainly far more than even Poland.
    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.

    I have sometimes come across the claim, from US conservatives, that the reason why there was much less dysfunction among US blacks pre-1960s was because the culture was more wholesome(which equates to more religious in their mind). I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to. Overwhelming white repression, unquestionably white authority and unbridled white institutional power made sure that there was no opportunity, chiefly view the Jim Crow laws that were ruthlessly enforced.

    As the civil rights era came, these repressions went away and violence skyrocketed in the 60s(as Sailer has written about many times). So I am in general skeptical about the role of religion here, though I will concede that heavily religious societies tend to have less bad shit like feminism, tranny BS etc. The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race. Religious groups which are tied to ethnicity (such as Jews) don’t mind this, because they can always appeal to religious sentiment. Which is why US conservatives are the most philosemitic and the biggest shabbos goyim for Israel there is.

    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    "Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn’t need to beat the kids to get them to behave."

    Muslim students in Europa tend to be more tame than white students, due to their more conersvative upbringing.
    , @Talha

    Islam is a very authoritarian religion
     
    In certain aspects, certainly...God likes to call the shots...because, well, He's God. I don't know if we could take a God seriously that basically said something like; "Yeah, do whatever you want and I'll like be over here if you need anything or you feel like calling me or like whatever you feel like, you know...because I created you and everything, but like whatever, you know..."

    I would think the name of the religion "submission" would be kind of a clue. But that's OK - they've done studies on it and religions (or variant interpretations, sects, etc.) that demand sacrifice and commitment from adherents survive and the ones that are more "ho-hum" about things fade away.

    So, I do think you’re right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that.
     
    Why? The bloodiest episode in European history was when it was more divorced from religion than any point before. The issues we are seeing in the Middle East are due to dissolution of "supra-ethnic bond" due to religion like the Circassians I cited in Jordan or even the Kurds and the Turks (a very relevant one to look at):
    "Especially among the Kurds, the caliphate had been held in high esteem. When, at the outset of the First World War, the Sultan in his capacity of Caliph or supreme leader of all Orthodox Muslims proclaimed a jihad, most Kurds rallied to the call. The large sums that had been spent by Russians in an attempt to buy some Kurdish chiefs’ loyalties were of no avail, nor could emotional appeals by Kurdish nationalists complete against the Caliph’s word…As Van Bruneissen observes, it was not until this supra-ethnic bond was severed with the elimination of the caliphate that ‘more or less nationalist-inspired revolts’ began to emerge among the Kurds.”
    Longing for the Lost Caliphate: A Transregional History (Princeton Univ. Press)

    When people are no longer "brothers" but some other "not us" entity...that's where stuff gets bloody interesting.

    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.
     
    I'd say it's a combination of both. Certainly I'm not going to argue that a Muslim society respectively formed by Somalis or Omanis or Persians or Bosnians is going to turn out the same. The trends in Latin America are something I'm still trying to get my head around.

    I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to.
     
    That is an interesting observation and quite true. But then, I have met and interacted with plenty of hardworking and decent African American Muslims who have families and were former criminals which obviously means that religion had a significant impact on their behavior.

    The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race.
     
    This is interesting, but I don't necessarily see that happening. Take for instance the examples I've mentioned with the Kurds under the Ottomans and the Circassians in Jordan. There was/is no pressure on them to become mixed in with everyone else nor was/is there pressure against it - it's left up to them.

    Peace.
    , @utu

    Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population.
     
    Unite States is a home to 25% of global prisoners with 5% of the world population.

    If Afro-Americans were removed from the equation the numbers would be: 15% and 4.5%.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    These American so-called conservatives are even worse than you think. Black dysfunction and criminality was a constant in American history going back to the 17th century. Even in mid 19th century Boston the prisons had more negroes than whites in them.

    They're pestilence in human form and no social reform can fix them.

    Three groups of people to never admit into your country:

    -Blacks
    -Jews
    -Gypsies

    Everyone else is more or less fine.
    , @Talha
    LOL! I’m such a dork at times...I just realized that you said:
    “So, I do think you’re right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now...”

    Not...
    “So, I don’t think you’re right...”

    Sorry for wasting your time on that point.

    Peace.
  11. IMO the thing going with #metoo and with Kavanaugh in time will be seen in the same light as hysteria about Satanist cultists invading american daycare. You might remember that witnesses were absolutely sure that they were testifying the truth. They really believed they were victims of awful and evil rituals. They were not lying, technically, if “lying” means consciously telling falsehoods.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse

    Similar with childhood abuse; dozens of parents were punished because their children went through psychotherapy which revealed their repressed memories.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2009/apr/07/sexual-abuse-false-memory-syndrome

    I’ve read Ford was going through psychotherapy, but it’s not unsual and not necessary to posing a possibility she is a victim of false memories. The false memories can be implanted by anything.

  12. @Polish Perspective
    Jared Taylor of AmRen mentioned in his latest podcast that he had been to Poland in the last week and spoken in front of the All-Polish Youth at two seperate ocassions. They are very religious - and hence I tend to avoid them - but this is a very good sign. In the aftermath of the last independence march, some of their spokesmen started to spout moronic talking points about 'muh based black men > white communists'. Jared is not exactly shy on his views on race, so my principal criticism that a lot of Polish nationalist groups are too religious civnats is being ameliorated.

    In general, I have seen a strong surge away from religion and towards race in the last couple of years. Wykop, the Polish reddit, has consistently had race realist submissions at the top of its front-page lately. It is a very popular normie-tier website, which makes that all the more remarkable. One of the things I love about living in Poland is our pro-free speech mentality. I can't even imagine reddit allowing a self-post about fullblown race realism rising to the top of the front page and staying there. I can't even imagine the userbase voting it up either.

    Another sign of the generational divide is that there was recently a Polish film mocking the catholic clergy and all the PiS boomers were outraged but most of the Wykop userbase joined in on the ridicule. The pedo scandals certainly haven't helped. I think our leftists are still in a state where they think that Catholicism is the end-all be-all, sort of how white liberals in the US obsessed about Christian evangelicals during the Bush era. But this is decreasingly relevant as you go down the age brackets. A lot of these establishment leftists are they themselves in their 40s, 50s or even 60s and they grew up in a much more religious - but also more naïve - Poland which was quite closed off from the world.

    I've mentioned before that I expect Poland to be ~10% non-white by 2030 (assuming a large immigration surge in the 2020s once/when PiS loses power to the neoliberal EU-slaves, á la how Blair opened the floodgates in the UK in the 1990s). But by 2030, things should get quite a lot better than it is now, as the boomers start to die off. In fact, I'm surprised how fast the discourse on the internet and among the young is already changing.

    Well, I’m an atheist but I think that religion does give some kind of social cohesion and helps keeping social peace. I would prefer to have a national church; or even better, if 90% of Poles start to believe Poles are chosen nation much better than the rest of the world :D. I mean, I do not believe that, but it would do wonders for being resistant to immigration-is-always-good nonsense.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Talha

    if 90% of Poles start to believe Poles are chosen nation
     
    So basically Judaism for Gentiles...?

    Peace.
  13. @Dmitry
    Well, Jung says something like drug-addict, is man in search of religion.

    So Mac Miller's problem, was the quality of his drugs supply.

    You can know which dudes selling really "good shit", from their "wild clothes" and when they have their own trains.

    https://espreso.tv/uploads/article/191195/images/im578x383-Kyrylo_Train_Inside.censor.net.ua.jpg

    https://espreso.tv/uploads/article/191195/images/im578x383-Kyrylo_Train_Ikona.charter97.jpg

    I have never really understood this part of the church and I can see why it would invite cynicism and ridicule. If our ulema rode like that, I’d be seriously disappointed – but that’s just our perspective. Religious leadership getting a class distinction is not something I’m used to. Here is one of the most respected and most knowledgeable scholars in the world, the former Grand Mufti of Pakistan – Taqi Usmani, take a noon nap while he was doing a recent tour of Lebanon – I think he is almost 75 years old:

    Peace.

  14. @Talha

    SAD. Nature: How DNA fends off a favourite gene-editing tool. Using CRISPR for certain genetic edits might be far harder than expected.
     
    Has it occurred to people that perhaps this is a fail-safe that was achieved over millions and millions of years of development of organisms in order to protect from the adverse effects of, say, a virus or something else that could alter genetic code in order to exploit a vulnerability. And that perhaps there was a conflict of this nature in the distant past that led to this limitation surviving and perpetuating itself forward?

    Peace.

    But Talha, that would mean the dream of absolute human control – total security and banishing of anxiety – was impossible.

    As I mentioned on the Fred thread, a scientific theory is selected based on how much control it is perceived to confer. Actual benefit is secondary.

    If we figure out that we are most benefited by leaving a process alone, this would be anathema to the scientific mind – such a discovery would be ignored, and a theory that gave the illusion of control would be preferred.

    The optimistic thing in my view is that the way out is through – we must continue this project of total control, increase it and amplify it, intensify it, spontaneity must be banished and more and more areas of our life must be brought under rigid control, or rather the illusion of control.

    Game substitutes an illusion of control for actual effectiveness – what I want to see is more areas of our life also rigidly controlled. Recreation and entertainment should be the next area. We should not be able to have fun or enjoy ourselves without rigid rules and complex theories of control. Friendships also should be brought under the control of rules.

    It has become absolutely clear to me that you will never convince the control-people of the futility and pointlessness of their grand project – and its harmfullness. Not only do they kill joy, but the the very thing they are grasping after, absolute security, recedes the more they try and wrap their lives in ironclad certainty.

    You cannot talk them out of their anxiety – their anxiety is existential, based on a wrong view of life that is deeply embedded in their personality structure. They think they are desperate from the universe and must control it.

    No, what you must do is encourage them to carry out their convictions as far as possible – a reductio ad absurdum. Only then will they see the absurdity of it all – and learn to laugh for the first time. (Notice how grim everyone here is)

    This will take decades. But it is the only way. Science, scientism, every kind of control and rule making, Progress, must all be maximally encouraged among those who seek control.

  15. Here is a thought experiment? Assuming you are interested in talking in taking back your country from neoliberalism, what is it going to take, is it going to require Isis levels of violence? Targetted assassination of liberal figures and supporters? Because from discussions here it seems that peaceful means are not possible.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    That's an interesting question. Maybe in the end it will indeed come down to a choice between passively letting oneself be destroyed or using the most ruthless and brutal violence (which of course would have a corrupting influence on one's own morals, one could easily enter a spiral of self-radicalizing escalation like the Nazis did; if one believes in that kind of thing, it might even cause divine retribution). Obviously it would be better if such a choice could be avoided. But if it can't, how is one to choose? There are no good answers to this imo.
    , @utu
    You are correct to perceive neoliberalism as an enemy however by concentrating on the useful idiots who serve as the shock troops and not the real force behind it which is the neoliberal capitalism you will never defeat it. Big money and big corporations. And medium money and medium corporations who have no choice but to play by neoliberal rules which includes getting immigrants and illegals. Would you go after the guy who gave the job to the illegal who killed the jogger in the Midwest? He did what you would have done if you had business and wanted to make bigger profit. If the economic side of the issue is not addressed nothing will change. In American if you say that you did something for money everybody will nod with understanding.
  16. Why are more intelligent people more socially liberal and more susceptible to POZ than less intelligent proles? Is this because more intelligent people use liberalism as a form of virtue signalling in order to separate themselves from the masses?

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    When they interact with those of different racial and religious backgrounds and of different sexual orientations they are usually dealing with functional, nice people not those at the far left of the bell curve.

    Good post by Godfree, only point I make is that the issue with China's debt isn't government debt but the eye-watering loans owed by SOEs and private corps.
    , @Spisarevski

    Why are more intelligent people more socially liberal and more susceptible to POZ than less intelligent proles? Is this because more intelligent people use liberalism as a form of virtue signalling in order to separate themselves from the masses?
     
    Virtues signalling/psychopathic status maximizers aside, the problem is that those people are not really intelligent. They are midwits, which prevents them from having either true intelligence or natural wisdom.
    They are just intelligent enough to consume propaganda for "intelligent" people such as themselves and get brainwashed.

    We analyze the world through many different abstractions. Simpler people are often wiser because they have not put too many abstract models between themselves and reality, they see the world more or less as it is. And truly intelligent people can also see through any flawed intellectual frames that have been imposed on them, and see reality.

    Midwits however are just intelligent enough to put enough abstractions between themselves and reality so that they don't see or don't believe what's right in front of their eyes.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Intelligent people are more able to indulge in social pathologies without destroying themselves, and want the freedom to indulge themselves.

    I have indulged in most social pathologies and escaped in tact.

    Proles destroy themselves when they do the same.
  17. @Nznz
    Here is a thought experiment? Assuming you are interested in talking in taking back your country from neoliberalism, what is it going to take, is it going to require Isis levels of violence? Targetted assassination of liberal figures and supporters? Because from discussions here it seems that peaceful means are not possible.

    That’s an interesting question. Maybe in the end it will indeed come down to a choice between passively letting oneself be destroyed or using the most ruthless and brutal violence (which of course would have a corrupting influence on one’s own morals, one could easily enter a spiral of self-radicalizing escalation like the Nazis did; if one believes in that kind of thing, it might even cause divine retribution). Obviously it would be better if such a choice could be avoided. But if it can’t, how is one to choose? There are no good answers to this imo.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Look at our enemies.

    I don't mean the coloreds, but our fellow whites who are true believers.

    There will be bloodshed.

    It's on us to be more brutal than them if we want to live.

    I used to believe otherwise, but experience has shown me that there is only one way for this to end.

    We have no choice but to fight, and we will have to be absolutely ruthless.
    , @Hyperborean

    Obviously it would be better if such a choice could be avoided. But if it can’t, how is one to choose? There are no good answers to this imo.
     
    I realise that you are supposed to be the voice of reason here, but you can be too thoughtful at times.

    The instinctual answer is and always should be that we should side with our and ours always. No justification needed.
  18. @Polish Perspective
    Islam is a very authoritarian religion, likely because its leader understood his own people all too well. I've read a lot of sociological material on schools in Western Europe and one of the recurring themes is that you have white liberal teachers naïvely thinking that the same rules which applies for white kids must also apply for muslim kids. After all, race-blind liberalism is the dogma which they were fed all their lives.

    Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn't need to beat the kids to get them to behave.

    Naturally, this does not work well. Hence, chaos is ever-present. The quotes which keep coming back when the 2nd gen immigrant kids are interviewed keep being "the teacher must show more authority". So, I do think you're right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that. Then again, I don't necessarily think Christianity is the solution either.

    There was a great article on the huge surge of violence in Latin America published a week ago. Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population. Mexico and Brazil are both quite religious, certainly far more than even Poland.
    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.

    I have sometimes come across the claim, from US conservatives, that the reason why there was much less dysfunction among US blacks pre-1960s was because the culture was more wholesome(which equates to more religious in their mind). I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to. Overwhelming white repression, unquestionably white authority and unbridled white institutional power made sure that there was no opportunity, chiefly view the Jim Crow laws that were ruthlessly enforced.

    As the civil rights era came, these repressions went away and violence skyrocketed in the 60s(as Sailer has written about many times). So I am in general skeptical about the role of religion here, though I will concede that heavily religious societies tend to have less bad shit like feminism, tranny BS etc. The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race. Religious groups which are tied to ethnicity (such as Jews) don't mind this, because they can always appeal to religious sentiment. Which is why US conservatives are the most philosemitic and the biggest shabbos goyim for Israel there is.

    “Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn’t need to beat the kids to get them to behave.”

    Muslim students in Europa tend to be more tame than white students, due to their more conersvative upbringing.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Muslim students in Europa tend to be more tame than white students
     
    Sounds dubious. I'm not speaking from personal experience, but in Germany even mainstream media have published stories about the violent behaviour of Turkish and Arab boys (often explained with the role of physical violence in their own upbringing, plus their Islamic superiority complex), and anecdotal stories from teachers seem to confirm that they're often quite troublesome.
    , @Hyperborean

    Muslim students in Europa tend to be more tame than white students, due to their more conersvative upbringing.
     
    Would you mind elaborating? This is very contrary to my experience.
  19. @Erik Sieven
    "Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn’t need to beat the kids to get them to behave."

    Muslim students in Europa tend to be more tame than white students, due to their more conersvative upbringing.

    Muslim students in Europa tend to be more tame than white students

    Sounds dubious. I’m not speaking from personal experience, but in Germany even mainstream media have published stories about the violent behaviour of Turkish and Arab boys (often explained with the role of physical violence in their own upbringing, plus their Islamic superiority complex), and anecdotal stories from teachers seem to confirm that they’re often quite troublesome.

  20. @Nznz
    Why are more intelligent people more socially liberal and more susceptible to POZ than less intelligent proles? Is this because more intelligent people use liberalism as a form of virtue signalling in order to separate themselves from the masses?

    When they interact with those of different racial and religious backgrounds and of different sexual orientations they are usually dealing with functional, nice people not those at the far left of the bell curve.

    Good post by Godfree, only point I make is that the issue with China’s debt isn’t government debt but the eye-watering loans owed by SOEs and private corps.

  21. @Polish Perspective
    Islam is a very authoritarian religion, likely because its leader understood his own people all too well. I've read a lot of sociological material on schools in Western Europe and one of the recurring themes is that you have white liberal teachers naïvely thinking that the same rules which applies for white kids must also apply for muslim kids. After all, race-blind liberalism is the dogma which they were fed all their lives.

    Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn't need to beat the kids to get them to behave.

    Naturally, this does not work well. Hence, chaos is ever-present. The quotes which keep coming back when the 2nd gen immigrant kids are interviewed keep being "the teacher must show more authority". So, I do think you're right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that. Then again, I don't necessarily think Christianity is the solution either.

    There was a great article on the huge surge of violence in Latin America published a week ago. Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population. Mexico and Brazil are both quite religious, certainly far more than even Poland.
    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.

    I have sometimes come across the claim, from US conservatives, that the reason why there was much less dysfunction among US blacks pre-1960s was because the culture was more wholesome(which equates to more religious in their mind). I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to. Overwhelming white repression, unquestionably white authority and unbridled white institutional power made sure that there was no opportunity, chiefly view the Jim Crow laws that were ruthlessly enforced.

    As the civil rights era came, these repressions went away and violence skyrocketed in the 60s(as Sailer has written about many times). So I am in general skeptical about the role of religion here, though I will concede that heavily religious societies tend to have less bad shit like feminism, tranny BS etc. The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race. Religious groups which are tied to ethnicity (such as Jews) don't mind this, because they can always appeal to religious sentiment. Which is why US conservatives are the most philosemitic and the biggest shabbos goyim for Israel there is.

    Islam is a very authoritarian religion

    In certain aspects, certainly…God likes to call the shots…because, well, He’s God. I don’t know if we could take a God seriously that basically said something like; “Yeah, do whatever you want and I’ll like be over here if you need anything or you feel like calling me or like whatever you feel like, you know…because I created you and everything, but like whatever, you know…”

    I would think the name of the religion “submission” would be kind of a clue. But that’s OK – they’ve done studies on it and religions (or variant interpretations, sects, etc.) that demand sacrifice and commitment from adherents survive and the ones that are more “ho-hum” about things fade away.

    So, I do think you’re right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that.

    Why? The bloodiest episode in European history was when it was more divorced from religion than any point before. The issues we are seeing in the Middle East are due to dissolution of “supra-ethnic bond” due to religion like the Circassians I cited in Jordan or even the Kurds and the Turks (a very relevant one to look at):
    “Especially among the Kurds, the caliphate had been held in high esteem. When, at the outset of the First World War, the Sultan in his capacity of Caliph or supreme leader of all Orthodox Muslims proclaimed a jihad, most Kurds rallied to the call. The large sums that had been spent by Russians in an attempt to buy some Kurdish chiefs’ loyalties were of no avail, nor could emotional appeals by Kurdish nationalists complete against the Caliph’s word…As Van Bruneissen observes, it was not until this supra-ethnic bond was severed with the elimination of the caliphate that ‘more or less nationalist-inspired revolts’ began to emerge among the Kurds.”
    Longing for the Lost Caliphate: A Transregional History (Princeton Univ. Press)

    When people are no longer “brothers” but some other “not us” entity…that’s where stuff gets bloody interesting.

    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.

    I’d say it’s a combination of both. Certainly I’m not going to argue that a Muslim society respectively formed by Somalis or Omanis or Persians or Bosnians is going to turn out the same. The trends in Latin America are something I’m still trying to get my head around.

    I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to.

    That is an interesting observation and quite true. But then, I have met and interacted with plenty of hardworking and decent African American Muslims who have families and were former criminals which obviously means that religion had a significant impact on their behavior.

    The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race.

    This is interesting, but I don’t necessarily see that happening. Take for instance the examples I’ve mentioned with the Kurds under the Ottomans and the Circassians in Jordan. There was/is no pressure on them to become mixed in with everyone else nor was/is there pressure against it – it’s left up to them.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson


    But then, I have met and interacted with plenty of hardworking and decent African American Muslims who have families and were former criminals which obviously means that religion had a significant impact on their behavior.
     
    I've generally found that most successful, decent blacks are very religious. Usually Christian, but some Mohammedans as well.
  22. @szopen
    Well, I'm an atheist but I think that religion does give some kind of social cohesion and helps keeping social peace. I would prefer to have a national church; or even better, if 90% of Poles start to believe Poles are chosen nation much better than the rest of the world :D. I mean, I do not believe that, but it would do wonders for being resistant to immigration-is-always-good nonsense.

    if 90% of Poles start to believe Poles are chosen nation

    So basically Judaism for Gentiles…?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AP

    So basically Judaism for Gentiles…?
     
    This was Nazism, as identified by mid-century Polish nationalists.
  23. @Talha

    if 90% of Poles start to believe Poles are chosen nation
     
    So basically Judaism for Gentiles...?

    Peace.

    So basically Judaism for Gentiles…?

    This was Nazism, as identified by mid-century Polish nationalists.

  24. @Polish Perspective
    Islam is a very authoritarian religion, likely because its leader understood his own people all too well. I've read a lot of sociological material on schools in Western Europe and one of the recurring themes is that you have white liberal teachers naïvely thinking that the same rules which applies for white kids must also apply for muslim kids. After all, race-blind liberalism is the dogma which they were fed all their lives.

    Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn't need to beat the kids to get them to behave.

    Naturally, this does not work well. Hence, chaos is ever-present. The quotes which keep coming back when the 2nd gen immigrant kids are interviewed keep being "the teacher must show more authority". So, I do think you're right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that. Then again, I don't necessarily think Christianity is the solution either.

    There was a great article on the huge surge of violence in Latin America published a week ago. Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population. Mexico and Brazil are both quite religious, certainly far more than even Poland.
    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.

    I have sometimes come across the claim, from US conservatives, that the reason why there was much less dysfunction among US blacks pre-1960s was because the culture was more wholesome(which equates to more religious in their mind). I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to. Overwhelming white repression, unquestionably white authority and unbridled white institutional power made sure that there was no opportunity, chiefly view the Jim Crow laws that were ruthlessly enforced.

    As the civil rights era came, these repressions went away and violence skyrocketed in the 60s(as Sailer has written about many times). So I am in general skeptical about the role of religion here, though I will concede that heavily religious societies tend to have less bad shit like feminism, tranny BS etc. The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race. Religious groups which are tied to ethnicity (such as Jews) don't mind this, because they can always appeal to religious sentiment. Which is why US conservatives are the most philosemitic and the biggest shabbos goyim for Israel there is.

    Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population.

    Unite States is a home to 25% of global prisoners with 5% of the world population.

    If Afro-Americans were removed from the equation the numbers would be: 15% and 4.5%.

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    That may be because criminals in significant chunks of the world are able to stay unarrested.
  25. * Audacious Epigone: MGTOW vs. “How to get a girlfriend” in Google Searches

    I was going to post that googling MGTOW probably has a better chance of you arriving at useful advice than googling ‘how to get a girlfriend’, but I tried the latter and the top couple of results honestly weren’t even that bad. Maybe the pervasiveness of game material has made normie-content up its game.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I guess, you would try to predict areas where search "how to get a girlfriend" are more common, will be where there are more frequency of guys who have difficulty to get girlfriends.

    So according to this map, it is more frequency of such guys in central America. It can sound sensible, as their lower population density, less young people in cafes, etc.

    However, what if it just means, areas where, more idiots who write full questions into the search engine?

    This is how my parents are using search engines (writing in long questions as if it is an oracle - and writing full sentences).

    Or what if it means, greater penetration of internet use with 12 and 13 year olds (who are probably the main demographic writing questions like this)?

    At the same time, this phrase, "MGTOW" - is likely only known among a very small minority of older cognoscenti, of stranger parts of the internet.

    In other words, we have a useless chart.

  26. @Polish Perspective
    Jared Taylor of AmRen mentioned in his latest podcast that he had been to Poland in the last week and spoken in front of the All-Polish Youth at two seperate ocassions. They are very religious - and hence I tend to avoid them - but this is a very good sign. In the aftermath of the last independence march, some of their spokesmen started to spout moronic talking points about 'muh based black men > white communists'. Jared is not exactly shy on his views on race, so my principal criticism that a lot of Polish nationalist groups are too religious civnats is being ameliorated.

    In general, I have seen a strong surge away from religion and towards race in the last couple of years. Wykop, the Polish reddit, has consistently had race realist submissions at the top of its front-page lately. It is a very popular normie-tier website, which makes that all the more remarkable. One of the things I love about living in Poland is our pro-free speech mentality. I can't even imagine reddit allowing a self-post about fullblown race realism rising to the top of the front page and staying there. I can't even imagine the userbase voting it up either.

    Another sign of the generational divide is that there was recently a Polish film mocking the catholic clergy and all the PiS boomers were outraged but most of the Wykop userbase joined in on the ridicule. The pedo scandals certainly haven't helped. I think our leftists are still in a state where they think that Catholicism is the end-all be-all, sort of how white liberals in the US obsessed about Christian evangelicals during the Bush era. But this is decreasingly relevant as you go down the age brackets. A lot of these establishment leftists are they themselves in their 40s, 50s or even 60s and they grew up in a much more religious - but also more naïve - Poland which was quite closed off from the world.

    I've mentioned before that I expect Poland to be ~10% non-white by 2030 (assuming a large immigration surge in the 2020s once/when PiS loses power to the neoliberal EU-slaves, á la how Blair opened the floodgates in the UK in the 1990s). But by 2030, things should get quite a lot better than it is now, as the boomers start to die off. In fact, I'm surprised how fast the discourse on the internet and among the young is already changing.

    Central European countries like V4 were shielded from experiences with other races. Unlike in the US or in your South Africa there was no need to develop racialist or racists doctrines. Racialist doctrines are incompatible with Catholicism while many Protestants churches were racists. However Catholicism can be easily adapted to ethno-nationalism within which the native population and society will be protected from immigration w/o invoking toxic racist ideas one is bound to develop in South Africa. The ethno-nationalism is better because it protects against hostile ethnicities of the same race.

    • Agree: Josep
    • Replies: @German_reader

    However Catholicism can be easily adapted to ethno-nationalism
     
    How so, when the pope is an open borders fanatic (and an enabler of pederast networks)? The Catholic church is a very hierarchical organization, with limited influence for laymen. If the hierarchy says any form of nationalism is incompatible with Christianity (even a kind of nationalism that merely seeks to restrict immigration, respects the rights of existing minorities and doesn't have any explicit "racial doctrine"), how can ordinary Catholics disagree?
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Racist ideas are not toxic.

    They are wholesome and objectively correct.

    Non-racists are liars and fools.
  27. @utu

    Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population.
     
    Unite States is a home to 25% of global prisoners with 5% of the world population.

    If Afro-Americans were removed from the equation the numbers would be: 15% and 4.5%.

    That may be because criminals in significant chunks of the world are able to stay unarrested.

  28. @DFH

    * Audacious Epigone: MGTOW vs. “How to get a girlfriend” in Google Searches
     
    I was going to post that googling MGTOW probably has a better chance of you arriving at useful advice than googling 'how to get a girlfriend', but I tried the latter and the top couple of results honestly weren't even that bad. Maybe the pervasiveness of game material has made normie-content up its game.

    I guess, you would try to predict areas where search “how to get a girlfriend” are more common, will be where there are more frequency of guys who have difficulty to get girlfriends.

    So according to this map, it is more frequency of such guys in central America. It can sound sensible, as their lower population density, less young people in cafes, etc.

    However, what if it just means, areas where, more idiots who write full questions into the search engine?

    This is how my parents are using search engines (writing in long questions as if it is an oracle – and writing full sentences).

    Or what if it means, greater penetration of internet use with 12 and 13 year olds (who are probably the main demographic writing questions like this)?

    At the same time, this phrase, “MGTOW” – is likely only known among a very small minority of older cognoscenti, of stranger parts of the internet.

    In other words, we have a useless chart.

    • Replies: @DFH
    'how to get a girlfriend' is an english phrase, so the map mostly just shows prevalence of english. The fact that a lot of people are googling it in India does not surprise me though.
  29. @Nznz
    Here is a thought experiment? Assuming you are interested in talking in taking back your country from neoliberalism, what is it going to take, is it going to require Isis levels of violence? Targetted assassination of liberal figures and supporters? Because from discussions here it seems that peaceful means are not possible.

    You are correct to perceive neoliberalism as an enemy however by concentrating on the useful idiots who serve as the shock troops and not the real force behind it which is the neoliberal capitalism you will never defeat it. Big money and big corporations. And medium money and medium corporations who have no choice but to play by neoliberal rules which includes getting immigrants and illegals. Would you go after the guy who gave the job to the illegal who killed the jogger in the Midwest? He did what you would have done if you had business and wanted to make bigger profit. If the economic side of the issue is not addressed nothing will change. In American if you say that you did something for money everybody will nod with understanding.

  30. @utu
    Central European countries like V4 were shielded from experiences with other races. Unlike in the US or in your South Africa there was no need to develop racialist or racists doctrines. Racialist doctrines are incompatible with Catholicism while many Protestants churches were racists. However Catholicism can be easily adapted to ethno-nationalism within which the native population and society will be protected from immigration w/o invoking toxic racist ideas one is bound to develop in South Africa. The ethno-nationalism is better because it protects against hostile ethnicities of the same race.

    However Catholicism can be easily adapted to ethno-nationalism

    How so, when the pope is an open borders fanatic (and an enabler of pederast networks)? The Catholic church is a very hierarchical organization, with limited influence for laymen. If the hierarchy says any form of nationalism is incompatible with Christianity (even a kind of nationalism that merely seeks to restrict immigration, respects the rights of existing minorities and doesn’t have any explicit “racial doctrine”), how can ordinary Catholics disagree?

    • Replies: @szopen
    Well, then you get what you got in Poland: where both the popular right-wing press and the feeds of my most religious friends declare he is false pope, troyan horse and not true catholic.
    , @utu

    how can ordinary Catholics disagree
     
    For Germans to disagree with authority is unthinkable. That's why you guys had Hitler while Catholic Italians had Mussolini. Big difference. For Catholics disagreeing is not a problem. They do it all the time. That's why the go to confession. You confess and you can do it again. There is great wisdom how the Catholic system is set up which literal minds of Protestants can't comprehend.
    , @LH
    Catholic hierarchy in the Czech Republic is quite strongly against immigration. It is probably opportunistic position, they have no strength to go against the population.
  31. @Nznz
    Why are more intelligent people more socially liberal and more susceptible to POZ than less intelligent proles? Is this because more intelligent people use liberalism as a form of virtue signalling in order to separate themselves from the masses?

    Why are more intelligent people more socially liberal and more susceptible to POZ than less intelligent proles? Is this because more intelligent people use liberalism as a form of virtue signalling in order to separate themselves from the masses?

    Virtues signalling/psychopathic status maximizers aside, the problem is that those people are not really intelligent. They are midwits, which prevents them from having either true intelligence or natural wisdom.
    They are just intelligent enough to consume propaganda for “intelligent” people such as themselves and get brainwashed.

    We analyze the world through many different abstractions. Simpler people are often wiser because they have not put too many abstract models between themselves and reality, they see the world more or less as it is. And truly intelligent people can also see through any flawed intellectual frames that have been imposed on them, and see reality.

    Midwits however are just intelligent enough to put enough abstractions between themselves and reality so that they don’t see or don’t believe what’s right in front of their eyes.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    The agree button does not work for me. But yes - Intelligent people (in knowledge of politics and society), usually understand things like classes, nations, "spheres of influence", social justice, etc - are (sometimes useful) fictions with no real relevance to themselves, except that debating them can be a fun way to procrastinate, or that sometimes other people reifying such phantoms could ruin your life.

    Generally, intelligence here, could result in an inward focus and return to common sense view, hoping the idiots bewitched by such abstract phantoms, don't push over the boat, where you sitting.

    , @Talha
    This is completely off; the research of men like Edward Dutton is pretty conclusive that higher IQ correlates with what one would consider Left-Liberal positions. As well as higher likelihood to be gay and autistic, etc. His position is that human beings have a grab bag of traits and some are in opposition to others - what a human being gains in “intelligence” seems to take away from what they have in the “instinct” category.

    Peace.
    , @Hyperborean
    I think part of it must be a certain social pressure.

    The family members I interact with for the most part are Socialists/Communists and they can say realistic ('non-PC') things about several individual topics but then a curious mental block steps in and they refuse to go down the rabbit hole.
  32. @German_reader

    However Catholicism can be easily adapted to ethno-nationalism
     
    How so, when the pope is an open borders fanatic (and an enabler of pederast networks)? The Catholic church is a very hierarchical organization, with limited influence for laymen. If the hierarchy says any form of nationalism is incompatible with Christianity (even a kind of nationalism that merely seeks to restrict immigration, respects the rights of existing minorities and doesn't have any explicit "racial doctrine"), how can ordinary Catholics disagree?

    Well, then you get what you got in Poland: where both the popular right-wing press and the feeds of my most religious friends declare he is false pope, troyan horse and not true catholic.

    • Replies: @Talha
    So are you basically saying the church would shed these guys by the hundreds if, say, the next pope was an African or an Arab or even an Armenian?

    If so, Christianity as an institution is in worse shape than I had thought.

    Peace.
  33. @Spisarevski

    Why are more intelligent people more socially liberal and more susceptible to POZ than less intelligent proles? Is this because more intelligent people use liberalism as a form of virtue signalling in order to separate themselves from the masses?
     
    Virtues signalling/psychopathic status maximizers aside, the problem is that those people are not really intelligent. They are midwits, which prevents them from having either true intelligence or natural wisdom.
    They are just intelligent enough to consume propaganda for "intelligent" people such as themselves and get brainwashed.

    We analyze the world through many different abstractions. Simpler people are often wiser because they have not put too many abstract models between themselves and reality, they see the world more or less as it is. And truly intelligent people can also see through any flawed intellectual frames that have been imposed on them, and see reality.

    Midwits however are just intelligent enough to put enough abstractions between themselves and reality so that they don't see or don't believe what's right in front of their eyes.

    The agree button does not work for me. But yes – Intelligent people (in knowledge of politics and society), usually understand things like classes, nations, “spheres of influence”, social justice, etc – are (sometimes useful) fictions with no real relevance to themselves, except that debating them can be a fun way to procrastinate, or that sometimes other people reifying such phantoms could ruin your life.

    Generally, intelligence here, could result in an inward focus and return to common sense view, hoping the idiots bewitched by such abstract phantoms, don’t push over the boat, where you sitting.

  34. JRL Promoted Mediocrity

    Re: http://russialist.org/russia-ukraine-johnsons-russia-list-table-of-contents-jrl-2018-176-wednesday-26-september-2018/

    It’s no small wonder why the coverage of Russia related matters continues to lack.

    The above listing of promoted articles, includes this piece from an anonymous JRL promoted court appointed Russia friendly regular, who is a self described sovok (left leaning Soviet nostalgic, as opposed to being in the non-Communist to anti-Communist leaning categories) -

    https://awfulavalanche.wordpress.com/2018/09/26/genocidal-schimasmatics-and-nazi-jews-you-cant-make-this-stuff-up-part-iii/

    Those with a proficient understanding of the discussed history, know that at the time of Napoleon’s invasion of Russia, the ancestors of present day Ukrainians didn’t support him in any significant majority or minority number. In the Austrian Empire of the late 1840s, Russian forces were warmly received by the ancestors of present day Ukrainians, as these soldiers were in route to put down a Hungarian rebellion at the request of the Habsburgs – something that was a mistake – as it created Hungarian animosity towards Russia – with the Habsburgs showing no reciprocity to Russia a few years later during the Crimean War. The Habsburgs were to later prop Ukrainian nationalist/anti-Russian leaning views.

    The anonymous author then goes on to describe the history of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church, with zero mention of its development in Ukraine. He probably got his info from an English Wikipedia entry, which acknowledges shortcomings in its content.

    During the Russian Civil War, elements among the short lived German supported Ukrainian regime of Pavlo Skoropadsky, advocated the creation of a Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church. Upon establishing control of what became the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, the Soviets had briefly propped the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church, as a means of undercutting the Russian Orthodox Church – at least that’s the view of Orest Subtelny and some others. Later, the Soviets were to reverse that policy, preferring a larger/more centralized Russian Orthodox Church under Soviet restrictions – keeping in mind that the Georgian Soviet dictator Stalin, seemed like he was a bit suspicious of too much of a Ukrainian identity, in conjunction with being somewhat of a Russian nationalist.

    Some other recent examples concerning the subject header:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/29092018-parallel-universe-thoughts-on-improving-russia-west-relations-oped/

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/07092018-consistency-and-reality-lacking-on-crimea-analysis/

  35. @German_reader

    However Catholicism can be easily adapted to ethno-nationalism
     
    How so, when the pope is an open borders fanatic (and an enabler of pederast networks)? The Catholic church is a very hierarchical organization, with limited influence for laymen. If the hierarchy says any form of nationalism is incompatible with Christianity (even a kind of nationalism that merely seeks to restrict immigration, respects the rights of existing minorities and doesn't have any explicit "racial doctrine"), how can ordinary Catholics disagree?

    how can ordinary Catholics disagree

    For Germans to disagree with authority is unthinkable. That’s why you guys had Hitler while Catholic Italians had Mussolini. Big difference. For Catholics disagreeing is not a problem. They do it all the time. That’s why the go to confession. You confess and you can do it again. There is great wisdom how the Catholic system is set up which literal minds of Protestants can’t comprehend.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I'm well aware of Catholic hypocrisy and the "impressive" possibilities it affords Catholics, but even that has its limits. And we're not talking about some priestly pronouncements about contraceptives or other sexual matters which one can just ignore...the Catholic church as an institution is massively involved in lobbying for mass immigration, and profits financially from it (at least in Germany, where they're big in the "refugee" business). Under those circumstances loyalty to the church as an institution in its present form and even moderate nationalism are in permanent tension.
    , @AP
    Another gem of a post.
  36. @Dmitry
    I guess, you would try to predict areas where search "how to get a girlfriend" are more common, will be where there are more frequency of guys who have difficulty to get girlfriends.

    So according to this map, it is more frequency of such guys in central America. It can sound sensible, as their lower population density, less young people in cafes, etc.

    However, what if it just means, areas where, more idiots who write full questions into the search engine?

    This is how my parents are using search engines (writing in long questions as if it is an oracle - and writing full sentences).

    Or what if it means, greater penetration of internet use with 12 and 13 year olds (who are probably the main demographic writing questions like this)?

    At the same time, this phrase, "MGTOW" - is likely only known among a very small minority of older cognoscenti, of stranger parts of the internet.

    In other words, we have a useless chart.

    ‘how to get a girlfriend’ is an english phrase, so the map mostly just shows prevalence of english. The fact that a lot of people are googling it in India does not surprise me though.

  37. @utu

    how can ordinary Catholics disagree
     
    For Germans to disagree with authority is unthinkable. That's why you guys had Hitler while Catholic Italians had Mussolini. Big difference. For Catholics disagreeing is not a problem. They do it all the time. That's why the go to confession. You confess and you can do it again. There is great wisdom how the Catholic system is set up which literal minds of Protestants can't comprehend.

    I’m well aware of Catholic hypocrisy and the “impressive” possibilities it affords Catholics, but even that has its limits. And we’re not talking about some priestly pronouncements about contraceptives or other sexual matters which one can just ignore…the Catholic church as an institution is massively involved in lobbying for mass immigration, and profits financially from it (at least in Germany, where they’re big in the “refugee” business). Under those circumstances loyalty to the church as an institution in its present form and even moderate nationalism are in permanent tension.

    • Replies: @AP
    And yet somehow the most Catholic nation in Europe is the most restrictive of immigration.

    Maybe the real problem is more with Germans than with Catholicism.
    , @Hyperborean

    Under those circumstances loyalty to the church as an institution in its present form and even moderate nationalism are in permanent tension.
     
    Conflict between German Nationalism and Political Catholicism is hardly unknown, I am sure the German National State will find an appropriate solution to the question in the end.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    In America the Lutherans are equally involved in "refugee" settlement as the papists are.

    The truth is that other than hardcore denominations like the Amish that most Christian denominations are now simply liberals who also talk about how nice Jesus Christ was.

    Given that liberalism is really a Christian heresy, this makes sense.
  38. @utu

    how can ordinary Catholics disagree
     
    For Germans to disagree with authority is unthinkable. That's why you guys had Hitler while Catholic Italians had Mussolini. Big difference. For Catholics disagreeing is not a problem. They do it all the time. That's why the go to confession. You confess and you can do it again. There is great wisdom how the Catholic system is set up which literal minds of Protestants can't comprehend.

    Another gem of a post.

  39. @German_reader
    I'm well aware of Catholic hypocrisy and the "impressive" possibilities it affords Catholics, but even that has its limits. And we're not talking about some priestly pronouncements about contraceptives or other sexual matters which one can just ignore...the Catholic church as an institution is massively involved in lobbying for mass immigration, and profits financially from it (at least in Germany, where they're big in the "refugee" business). Under those circumstances loyalty to the church as an institution in its present form and even moderate nationalism are in permanent tension.

    And yet somehow the most Catholic nation in Europe is the most restrictive of immigration.

    Maybe the real problem is more with Germans than with Catholicism.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    And yet somehow the most Catholic nation in Europe is the most restrictive of immigration.
     
    Lame. There hasn't been that much migratory pressure on Poland so far, so it's not like there has been a real test to show how the church there will behave.
    Meanwhile, in Italy, one of the traditional centres of Catholicism, you get stories like this:
    https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2016/08/09/controversy-in-italy-over-muslim-participation-in-masses-said-for-murdered-french-priest/
    https://bari.repubblica.it/cronaca/2016/09/12/news/bari_la_feata_del_sacrificio_in_fiera-147607945/

    A pregare con i musulmani ci sono anche don Franco Lanzolla, parroco della Cattedrale di Bari, e don Vito Piccinonna, direttore della Caritas diocesana. "Siamo tutti credenti, obbediamo alla spiritualità come sorgente di giustizia - conferma don Franco - poi ognuno ha scelto la sua strada, il Vangelo o il Corano".
     
    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/07/26/catholic-magazine-compares-italys-matteo-salvini-to-satan/

    You're in deep denial about what large parts of the Catholic church in Europe actually stand for today.
  40. @szopen
    Well, then you get what you got in Poland: where both the popular right-wing press and the feeds of my most religious friends declare he is false pope, troyan horse and not true catholic.

    So are you basically saying the church would shed these guys by the hundreds if, say, the next pope was an African or an Arab or even an Armenian?

    If so, Christianity as an institution is in worse shape than I had thought.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @DFH
    I am a Catholic and would not really have a problem with a non-white Pope so long as he did not promote anti-white racial interests and/or poz, like the current pope
    , @szopen
    No. They are criticising him because of many things, not just because of open borders nonsense. His ethnicity and race has nothing to do with that.
  41. @Talha
    So are you basically saying the church would shed these guys by the hundreds if, say, the next pope was an African or an Arab or even an Armenian?

    If so, Christianity as an institution is in worse shape than I had thought.

    Peace.

    I am a Catholic and would not really have a problem with a non-white Pope so long as he did not promote anti-white racial interests and/or poz, like the current pope

    • Replies: @Talha
    That is a reasonable position. In our tradition, Muslim unity (political as well as religious) is a goal and motivation, but that doesn’t mean at the cost of justice by the composite parts and being treated like dirt by the leadership...as the short-lived Umayyads found out after getting throttled by the mawali-backed Abbasid revolt.

    Peace.
  42. @Spisarevski

    Why are more intelligent people more socially liberal and more susceptible to POZ than less intelligent proles? Is this because more intelligent people use liberalism as a form of virtue signalling in order to separate themselves from the masses?
     
    Virtues signalling/psychopathic status maximizers aside, the problem is that those people are not really intelligent. They are midwits, which prevents them from having either true intelligence or natural wisdom.
    They are just intelligent enough to consume propaganda for "intelligent" people such as themselves and get brainwashed.

    We analyze the world through many different abstractions. Simpler people are often wiser because they have not put too many abstract models between themselves and reality, they see the world more or less as it is. And truly intelligent people can also see through any flawed intellectual frames that have been imposed on them, and see reality.

    Midwits however are just intelligent enough to put enough abstractions between themselves and reality so that they don't see or don't believe what's right in front of their eyes.

    This is completely off; the research of men like Edward Dutton is pretty conclusive that higher IQ correlates with what one would consider Left-Liberal positions. As well as higher likelihood to be gay and autistic, etc. His position is that human beings have a grab bag of traits and some are in opposition to others – what a human being gains in “intelligence” seems to take away from what they have in the “instinct” category.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Though I will agree that they are not “wise” which is not equivalent to “intelligence” nor ever has been.
  43. @AP
    And yet somehow the most Catholic nation in Europe is the most restrictive of immigration.

    Maybe the real problem is more with Germans than with Catholicism.

    And yet somehow the most Catholic nation in Europe is the most restrictive of immigration.

    Lame. There hasn’t been that much migratory pressure on Poland so far, so it’s not like there has been a real test to show how the church there will behave.
    Meanwhile, in Italy, one of the traditional centres of Catholicism, you get stories like this:

    https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2016/08/09/controversy-in-italy-over-muslim-participation-in-masses-said-for-murdered-french-priest/

    https://bari.repubblica.it/cronaca/2016/09/12/news/bari_la_feata_del_sacrificio_in_fiera-147607945/

    A pregare con i musulmani ci sono anche don Franco Lanzolla, parroco della Cattedrale di Bari, e don Vito Piccinonna, direttore della Caritas diocesana. “Siamo tutti credenti, obbediamo alla spiritualità come sorgente di giustizia – conferma don Franco – poi ognuno ha scelto la sua strada, il Vangelo o il Corano”.

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/07/26/catholic-magazine-compares-italys-matteo-salvini-to-satan/

    You’re in deep denial about what large parts of the Catholic church in Europe actually stand for today.

    • Replies: @AP
    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?
  44. @DFH
    I am a Catholic and would not really have a problem with a non-white Pope so long as he did not promote anti-white racial interests and/or poz, like the current pope

    That is a reasonable position. In our tradition, Muslim unity (political as well as religious) is a goal and motivation, but that doesn’t mean at the cost of justice by the composite parts and being treated like dirt by the leadership…as the short-lived Umayyads found out after getting throttled by the mawali-backed Abbasid revolt.

    Peace.

  45. @Talha
    So are you basically saying the church would shed these guys by the hundreds if, say, the next pope was an African or an Arab or even an Armenian?

    If so, Christianity as an institution is in worse shape than I had thought.

    Peace.

    No. They are criticising him because of many things, not just because of open borders nonsense. His ethnicity and race has nothing to do with that.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Oh ok, thanks for the clarification.

    Peace.
  46. @Talha
    This is completely off; the research of men like Edward Dutton is pretty conclusive that higher IQ correlates with what one would consider Left-Liberal positions. As well as higher likelihood to be gay and autistic, etc. His position is that human beings have a grab bag of traits and some are in opposition to others - what a human being gains in “intelligence” seems to take away from what they have in the “instinct” category.

    Peace.

    Though I will agree that they are not “wise” which is not equivalent to “intelligence” nor ever has been.

  47. @German_reader

    And yet somehow the most Catholic nation in Europe is the most restrictive of immigration.
     
    Lame. There hasn't been that much migratory pressure on Poland so far, so it's not like there has been a real test to show how the church there will behave.
    Meanwhile, in Italy, one of the traditional centres of Catholicism, you get stories like this:
    https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2016/08/09/controversy-in-italy-over-muslim-participation-in-masses-said-for-murdered-french-priest/
    https://bari.repubblica.it/cronaca/2016/09/12/news/bari_la_feata_del_sacrificio_in_fiera-147607945/

    A pregare con i musulmani ci sono anche don Franco Lanzolla, parroco della Cattedrale di Bari, e don Vito Piccinonna, direttore della Caritas diocesana. "Siamo tutti credenti, obbediamo alla spiritualità come sorgente di giustizia - conferma don Franco - poi ognuno ha scelto la sua strada, il Vangelo o il Corano".
     
    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/07/26/catholic-magazine-compares-italys-matteo-salvini-to-satan/

    You're in deep denial about what large parts of the Catholic church in Europe actually stand for today.

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    • Replies: @DFH
    Least friendly is atheist Czechia
    , @German_reader

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden
     
    That's like asking whether plague or cholera is worse. Anyway, the question isn't whether Italians in general are more anti-immigration than Swedes or Germans (Germans btw aren't just Protestants, the Catholic church is very influential in parts of Germany), it's about the attitude of Catholic clergy, and in Italy as in Germany and other European countries the church is definitely lobbying for mass immigration. I've read comments on the net by Italians who feel similarly about that as I do, so my sentiment is hardly just some Teutonic specialty.
    You can also read this:
    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/03/italys-rebellion

    There are disagreements between the Catholic hierarchy and the populists who are trying to reclaim the Christian identity they see as being under threat. The archbishop of Milan, Mario Delpini, criticized Salvini’s use of the Gospel and the rosary at his rally. “Rallies should be about politics,” he argued.

    “I never expected that we would have so many difficulties with the Italian Church,” said Morelli. He tried repeatedly to book an appointment with the archbishop of Milan, to no avail. “They keep telling me they’re busy,” he said. “I don’t understand. There is general hostility from the Catholic Church towards us, but they support the morally relativist and Islamist-friendly Partito Democratico.”

    The key issue is immigration. Whereas Pope Benedict talked about “the right not to emigrate”—the right of would-be emigrants to find livable conditions in their home countries—Pope Francis now talks about Western countries’ “duty to accept” migrants. In 2016, Salvini held up a shirt that read: “My Pope is Benedict.” In a speech in 2016, he reiterated Benedict’s words: “I remember what he said about immigration—that before having the right to emigrate, there should be a right not to emigrate.”

    Pope Francis’s words are increasingly alienating to Europeans who are becoming skeptical about their duty to accept anyone and everyone who reaches their shores. But the Church has doubled down on its position. After the election result showed a win for populist parties, Pope Francis expressed his concern: “The world today is often inhabited by fear. It is an ancient disease. … And fear often turns against people who are foreign, different, poor, as if they were enemies.”
     
    , @Matra
    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Catholic Spain with its regular amnesties, or Protestant Denmark?

    Which American region is more friendly to migrants, Catholic leftist NY/New England or the conservative Protestant South?

    In Canada and Australia it is the same: Catholics voting for "tolerance" against an under-siege Anglo-Protestant population.

    Polish Catholics have joined the Jewish, Muslim coalition in the UK forever bitching about Brexiter intolerance and calling for more immigrants. Irish Catholics are part of the same coalition.

    BTW the Catholic Church is very hostile to Italy's great new government. I wouldn't be surprised if the Church ends up leading the resistance to Salvini's policies.
  48. @AP
    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    Least friendly is atheist Czechia

  49. @AP
    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden

    That’s like asking whether plague or cholera is worse. Anyway, the question isn’t whether Italians in general are more anti-immigration than Swedes or Germans (Germans btw aren’t just Protestants, the Catholic church is very influential in parts of Germany), it’s about the attitude of Catholic clergy, and in Italy as in Germany and other European countries the church is definitely lobbying for mass immigration. I’ve read comments on the net by Italians who feel similarly about that as I do, so my sentiment is hardly just some Teutonic specialty.
    You can also read this:

    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/03/italys-rebellion

    There are disagreements between the Catholic hierarchy and the populists who are trying to reclaim the Christian identity they see as being under threat. The archbishop of Milan, Mario Delpini, criticized Salvini’s use of the Gospel and the rosary at his rally. “Rallies should be about politics,” he argued.

    “I never expected that we would have so many difficulties with the Italian Church,” said Morelli. He tried repeatedly to book an appointment with the archbishop of Milan, to no avail. “They keep telling me they’re busy,” he said. “I don’t understand. There is general hostility from the Catholic Church towards us, but they support the morally relativist and Islamist-friendly Partito Democratico.”

    The key issue is immigration. Whereas Pope Benedict talked about “the right not to emigrate”—the right of would-be emigrants to find livable conditions in their home countries—Pope Francis now talks about Western countries’ “duty to accept” migrants. In 2016, Salvini held up a shirt that read: “My Pope is Benedict.” In a speech in 2016, he reiterated Benedict’s words: “I remember what he said about immigration—that before having the right to emigrate, there should be a right not to emigrate.”

    Pope Francis’s words are increasingly alienating to Europeans who are becoming skeptical about their duty to accept anyone and everyone who reaches their shores. But the Church has doubled down on its position. After the election result showed a win for populist parties, Pope Francis expressed his concern: “The world today is often inhabited by fear. It is an ancient disease. … And fear often turns against people who are foreign, different, poor, as if they were enemies.”

    • Replies: @AP

    Anyway, the question isn’t whether Italians in general are more anti-immigration than Swedes or Germans (Germans btw aren’t just Protestants, the Catholic church is very influential in parts of Germany)
     
    Are Bavarians more tolerant of migration than people in Berlin? CDU more than CSU?

    Current Pope is unlike the previous one but so far it is not a trend, it's one person.
  50. @szopen
    No. They are criticising him because of many things, not just because of open borders nonsense. His ethnicity and race has nothing to do with that.

    Oh ok, thanks for the clarification.

    Peace.

  51. @AP
    Ukraine keeps winning. 3.8% GDP growth in the second quarter of 2018, which makes it the 11th straight quarter of GDP growth. Given the people leaving ot work abroad, this makes per capita growth much higher.

    https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-economy/2548250-ukraines-gdp-growing-for-11-quarters-in-a-row.html

    There has been some chemical accident at a plant in Crimea, children being evacuated:

    https://www.dw.com/en/crimea-mysterious-chemical-incident-evokes-memories-of-chernobyl-disaster/a-45376308

    Ukrainian media portray it as proof that Crimea is falling apart after coming under Russian rule, which is probably absurd. But if the same thing had happened at a plant outside Kiev, Russian media would undoubtedly run with the same interpretation and someone like Felix would believe it.

    Ukraine keeps winning. 3.8% GDP growth in the second quarter of 2018, which makes it the 11th straight quarter of GDP growth. Given the people leaving ot work abroad, this makes per capita growth much higher.

    Not much higher. World Bank puts Ukraine’s 2017 GDP growth at 2.5%, vs. per capita GDP growth of 2.95%. And for a country as poor as Ukraine, 4% per capita growth is nothing to brag about. At a similar level of per capita GDP, Belarus had per capita growth of 12%, Kazakhstan 9%, and Russia 8%.

    • Replies: @AP

    Not much higher. World Bank puts Ukraine’s 2017 GDP growth at 2.5%, vs. per capita GDP growth of 2.95%. And for a country as poor as Ukraine, 4% per capita growth is nothing to brag about.
     
    Why? Morocco has similar nominal per capita GDP and its growth hasn't been at or above 4% since 2008. Honduras, likewise close to Ukraine and it hasn't done so since 2006.

    At a similar level of per capita GDP, Belarus had per capita growth of 12%, Kazakhstan 9%, and Russia 8%.
     
    How was oil price growing at that time? Were any of them at war?
  52. Sweden turns Pippi Longstocking into homeless Roma migrant living in Stockholm ghetto.

    I know we are supposed to gasp in horror at this, but… for this particular character I can totally see it.

    Using CRISPR for certain genetic edits might be far harder than expected.

    LOL. Prediction: every techno trend you rave about will be “far harder than expected.” Intelligence enhancement, AI, robotization, and so on down the list. Surprise!

  53. @AP
    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Catholic Spain with its regular amnesties, or Protestant Denmark?

    Which American region is more friendly to migrants, Catholic leftist NY/New England or the conservative Protestant South?

    In Canada and Australia it is the same: Catholics voting for “tolerance” against an under-siege Anglo-Protestant population.

    Polish Catholics have joined the Jewish, Muslim coalition in the UK forever bitching about Brexiter intolerance and calling for more immigrants. Irish Catholics are part of the same coalition.

    BTW the Catholic Church is very hostile to Italy’s great new government. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Church ends up leading the resistance to Salvini’s policies.

    • Replies: @AP

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Catholic Spain with its regular amnesties, or Protestant Denmark?
     
    Which one has higher percentage Muslims in 2050, Denmark or Spain:

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/map-europe-future-muslim-demographics.png

    Indeed, with the exception of France and Austria it is the Protestant countries that have allowed themselves to be taken over the most. Coincidence?

    You are an ingrate. If not for Poles, Ukrainians, Italians etc. in Canada, that country's Protestants, in addition to being further outnumbered, would have done to themselves what Protestants everywhere, such as England itself, have done to themselves. That's just what Protestants do. Look at England.

    Which American region is more friendly to migrants, Catholic leftist NY/New England or the conservative Protestant South?
     
    New England is the whitest region in the USA:

    States with the highest percentages of non-Hispanic Whites, as of 2007:[55]

    Vermont 95.4%
    Maine 94.8%
    West Virginia 93.7%
    New Hampshire 93.4%
    Iowa 90.9%
    North Dakota 90.2%
    Montana 88.3%
    Kentucky 88.1%
    Wyoming 87.7%
    South Dakota 86.5%

    Boston is the only major American city where most kids are born to white parents.

    Lots of Mexicans moving to Georgia, NC and the Protestant southern states and Midwestern Great Plains.

    Polish Catholics have joined the Jewish, Muslim coalition in the UK
     
    Remove Polish Catholics and the European % of the population of England shrinks further. Polish Catholics in England also reproduce at a higher rate than do English Protestants, no?
  54. @Dmitry

    Russia’s more religious (Orthodox) regions have similar fertility rates and divorce rates to the rest of Russia, but lower crime, and much lower HIV prevalence rates.
     
    Main transmitter of HIV is used of injected opiates (mainly heroin).

    So study which should be commissioned from this, is possibility of inverse correlation between religious prevalence and rates of heroin use, in an area.

    If religious prevalence and rates of heroin are able to substitute for each other, then empirical support for Marx's connection ("Religion is opium of the people").

    If religious prevalence and rates of heroin are able to substitute for each other, then empirical support for Marx’s connection (“Religion is opium of the people”).

    Too literal. Opiates were used to sedate people in pain at the time, so Marx’s meaning was more similar to ‘religion helps people ignore the pains of oppressive society through the creation of a veil of pleasure and illusion’.

    This was a precursor to the ideas of False Consciousness which were developed by Marxist theorists as a synthesis of the idea that ‘Communism is inevitable as the proletariat wakes up and throws off its shakles’ and the antithesis that in reality many commoners didn’t agitate in favour of Communism.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Sure, Marx more sophisticated for my comment.

    But it is nonetheless, such a simplistic connection between these narcotics. Administration of unbelievable dogmas of organized religion, and of opiates.

    Jung's project for curing addiction to drugs - would be as indication of need for some kind of spiritual quest. But fairly, his concept of "analysis" for his patients, at least is not such simple religious indoctrination or faith in various unbelievable dogmas.

  55. @Erik Sieven
    "Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn’t need to beat the kids to get them to behave."

    Muslim students in Europa tend to be more tame than white students, due to their more conersvative upbringing.

    Muslim students in Europa tend to be more tame than white students, due to their more conersvative upbringing.

    Would you mind elaborating? This is very contrary to my experience.

  56. @Polish Perspective
    One more piece of good news. As I was reading Foreign Affairs in the university library this morning (gotta keep up with ZOG) to my great astonishment, I found a balanced and frankly critical book review about Western coverage of Russia written in conjunction with some recent book releases on Russia (Gessen, Shaun Walker of Guardian fame and Serhii Plokhii).

    The author pointed out that all these three authors shared a very contrived view of Russia, in that they viewed Russian civil society as desolate and lifeless, that is is merely an artificial creation by the Russian state. Invented to serve a repressive purpose. In other words, politics comes first and the culture is modified for its ends.

    He attacked this view head-on. He forcefully argued that Putin is in fact a creation of Russian society and not the other way around. He even went into AK's talking points about Lenin being anti-Russian(!), how Lenin had suppressed Russian identity and viewed 'Russian chauvinism' as a great threat. I couldn't believe what I was reading. He also threw shade on the notion that Putin is unpopular and only in power due to massive repression. There was also plenty of harsh words reserved for coverage of Russia, and how it is inextricably tied up in Western fantasies of Russia being a puppet like most of CEE has become to the US-led order. When Russia inevitably disappoints the role of servility, rage ensues.

    The main problem, in his view, is that Western coverage of Russia refuses to engage actual Russian civil society, partly for the aforementioned reasons but also, frankly, because many of the social choices taken by Russians are inimical to neoliberal preferences. Putin's Orthodoxy should be seen as an outgrowth of the Russian people's will instead of purely being seen through a cynical lens of Putin doing yet another move to solidify power (by all accounts, he is genuinely religious).

    That all said, will it have an effect on Western Discourse? Considering that the same magazine had a deranged article by Michael McFaul in the same issue on the topic of Russia, perhaps we shouldn't get our hopes up just yet. But, there are at least some sane voices out there and Foreign Affairs is the go-to magazine for the US foreign policy elite, so that's something. The article can be found here. Ignore the somewhat hostile title, the actual text is quite good.

    The still not dead Henry Kissinger is sane and about as Establishment it gets. He promotes allying with Russia to contain China.

    Gets very little traction.

    Likewise, the actual President of the United States more or less shares this view.

    Still apparently does not matter.

    I am deeply pessimistic about this, and what I’ve learned in the past two years is that we need a fascist dictatorship with massive purges.

    • Replies: @Jon0815

    The still not dead Henry Kissinger is sane and about as Establishment it gets. He promotes allying with Russia to contain China.

    Gets very little traction.

    Likewise, the actual President of the United States more or less shares this view.

    Still apparently does not matter.
     
    I think the problem is less that institutionally the President is unable to overrule the Establishment's foreign policy preferences, and more that Trump personally is just an easily manipulated dummy.

    If, say, Rand Paul or Tulsi Gabbard were to become president, I gave no doubt that US foreign policy towards Russia, and in general, would look very different.
    , @Rosie

    I am deeply pessimistic about this, and what I’ve learned in the past two years is that we need a fascist dictatorship with massive purges.
     
    Agreed, though I wouldn't call it "fascist dictatorship" but rather "popular democracy."
  57. @Spisarevski

    Why are more intelligent people more socially liberal and more susceptible to POZ than less intelligent proles? Is this because more intelligent people use liberalism as a form of virtue signalling in order to separate themselves from the masses?
     
    Virtues signalling/psychopathic status maximizers aside, the problem is that those people are not really intelligent. They are midwits, which prevents them from having either true intelligence or natural wisdom.
    They are just intelligent enough to consume propaganda for "intelligent" people such as themselves and get brainwashed.

    We analyze the world through many different abstractions. Simpler people are often wiser because they have not put too many abstract models between themselves and reality, they see the world more or less as it is. And truly intelligent people can also see through any flawed intellectual frames that have been imposed on them, and see reality.

    Midwits however are just intelligent enough to put enough abstractions between themselves and reality so that they don't see or don't believe what's right in front of their eyes.

    I think part of it must be a certain social pressure.

    The family members I interact with for the most part are Socialists/Communists and they can say realistic (‘non-PC’) things about several individual topics but then a curious mental block steps in and they refuse to go down the rabbit hole.

  58. @Polish Perspective
    Islam is a very authoritarian religion, likely because its leader understood his own people all too well. I've read a lot of sociological material on schools in Western Europe and one of the recurring themes is that you have white liberal teachers naïvely thinking that the same rules which applies for white kids must also apply for muslim kids. After all, race-blind liberalism is the dogma which they were fed all their lives.

    Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn't need to beat the kids to get them to behave.

    Naturally, this does not work well. Hence, chaos is ever-present. The quotes which keep coming back when the 2nd gen immigrant kids are interviewed keep being "the teacher must show more authority". So, I do think you're right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that. Then again, I don't necessarily think Christianity is the solution either.

    There was a great article on the huge surge of violence in Latin America published a week ago. Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population. Mexico and Brazil are both quite religious, certainly far more than even Poland.
    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.

    I have sometimes come across the claim, from US conservatives, that the reason why there was much less dysfunction among US blacks pre-1960s was because the culture was more wholesome(which equates to more religious in their mind). I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to. Overwhelming white repression, unquestionably white authority and unbridled white institutional power made sure that there was no opportunity, chiefly view the Jim Crow laws that were ruthlessly enforced.

    As the civil rights era came, these repressions went away and violence skyrocketed in the 60s(as Sailer has written about many times). So I am in general skeptical about the role of religion here, though I will concede that heavily religious societies tend to have less bad shit like feminism, tranny BS etc. The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race. Religious groups which are tied to ethnicity (such as Jews) don't mind this, because they can always appeal to religious sentiment. Which is why US conservatives are the most philosemitic and the biggest shabbos goyim for Israel there is.

    These American so-called conservatives are even worse than you think. Black dysfunction and criminality was a constant in American history going back to the 17th century. Even in mid 19th century Boston the prisons had more negroes than whites in them.

    They’re pestilence in human form and no social reform can fix them.

    Three groups of people to never admit into your country:

    -Blacks
    -Jews
    -Gypsies

    Everyone else is more or less fine.

    • Replies: @S3
    I would have thought Muslims would be on your list.

    Anyway, do you mind if I ask you a question? How did you ever learn enough accounting to run your business? I am thinking of starting one myself and for the life of me can't find anything that doesn't put me to sleep. I am used to engineering texts. All the accounting stuff I have read so far reminds me of law books.
  59. @Nznz
    Why are more intelligent people more socially liberal and more susceptible to POZ than less intelligent proles? Is this because more intelligent people use liberalism as a form of virtue signalling in order to separate themselves from the masses?

    Intelligent people are more able to indulge in social pathologies without destroying themselves, and want the freedom to indulge themselves.

    I have indulged in most social pathologies and escaped in tact.

    Proles destroy themselves when they do the same.

  60. @German_reader
    That's an interesting question. Maybe in the end it will indeed come down to a choice between passively letting oneself be destroyed or using the most ruthless and brutal violence (which of course would have a corrupting influence on one's own morals, one could easily enter a spiral of self-radicalizing escalation like the Nazis did; if one believes in that kind of thing, it might even cause divine retribution). Obviously it would be better if such a choice could be avoided. But if it can't, how is one to choose? There are no good answers to this imo.

    Look at our enemies.

    I don’t mean the coloreds, but our fellow whites who are true believers.

    There will be bloodshed.

    It’s on us to be more brutal than them if we want to live.

    I used to believe otherwise, but experience has shown me that there is only one way for this to end.

    We have no choice but to fight, and we will have to be absolutely ruthless.

  61. @Talha

    Islam is a very authoritarian religion
     
    In certain aspects, certainly...God likes to call the shots...because, well, He's God. I don't know if we could take a God seriously that basically said something like; "Yeah, do whatever you want and I'll like be over here if you need anything or you feel like calling me or like whatever you feel like, you know...because I created you and everything, but like whatever, you know..."

    I would think the name of the religion "submission" would be kind of a clue. But that's OK - they've done studies on it and religions (or variant interpretations, sects, etc.) that demand sacrifice and commitment from adherents survive and the ones that are more "ho-hum" about things fade away.

    So, I do think you’re right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that.
     
    Why? The bloodiest episode in European history was when it was more divorced from religion than any point before. The issues we are seeing in the Middle East are due to dissolution of "supra-ethnic bond" due to religion like the Circassians I cited in Jordan or even the Kurds and the Turks (a very relevant one to look at):
    "Especially among the Kurds, the caliphate had been held in high esteem. When, at the outset of the First World War, the Sultan in his capacity of Caliph or supreme leader of all Orthodox Muslims proclaimed a jihad, most Kurds rallied to the call. The large sums that had been spent by Russians in an attempt to buy some Kurdish chiefs’ loyalties were of no avail, nor could emotional appeals by Kurdish nationalists complete against the Caliph’s word…As Van Bruneissen observes, it was not until this supra-ethnic bond was severed with the elimination of the caliphate that ‘more or less nationalist-inspired revolts’ began to emerge among the Kurds.”
    Longing for the Lost Caliphate: A Transregional History (Princeton Univ. Press)

    When people are no longer "brothers" but some other "not us" entity...that's where stuff gets bloody interesting.

    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.
     
    I'd say it's a combination of both. Certainly I'm not going to argue that a Muslim society respectively formed by Somalis or Omanis or Persians or Bosnians is going to turn out the same. The trends in Latin America are something I'm still trying to get my head around.

    I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to.
     
    That is an interesting observation and quite true. But then, I have met and interacted with plenty of hardworking and decent African American Muslims who have families and were former criminals which obviously means that religion had a significant impact on their behavior.

    The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race.
     
    This is interesting, but I don't necessarily see that happening. Take for instance the examples I've mentioned with the Kurds under the Ottomans and the Circassians in Jordan. There was/is no pressure on them to become mixed in with everyone else nor was/is there pressure against it - it's left up to them.

    Peace.

    But then, I have met and interacted with plenty of hardworking and decent African American Muslims who have families and were former criminals which obviously means that religion had a significant impact on their behavior.

    I’ve generally found that most successful, decent blacks are very religious. Usually Christian, but some Mohammedans as well.

  62. @utu
    Central European countries like V4 were shielded from experiences with other races. Unlike in the US or in your South Africa there was no need to develop racialist or racists doctrines. Racialist doctrines are incompatible with Catholicism while many Protestants churches were racists. However Catholicism can be easily adapted to ethno-nationalism within which the native population and society will be protected from immigration w/o invoking toxic racist ideas one is bound to develop in South Africa. The ethno-nationalism is better because it protects against hostile ethnicities of the same race.

    Racist ideas are not toxic.

    They are wholesome and objectively correct.

    Non-racists are liars and fools.

    • Troll: Josep
  63. @German_reader
    I'm well aware of Catholic hypocrisy and the "impressive" possibilities it affords Catholics, but even that has its limits. And we're not talking about some priestly pronouncements about contraceptives or other sexual matters which one can just ignore...the Catholic church as an institution is massively involved in lobbying for mass immigration, and profits financially from it (at least in Germany, where they're big in the "refugee" business). Under those circumstances loyalty to the church as an institution in its present form and even moderate nationalism are in permanent tension.

    Under those circumstances loyalty to the church as an institution in its present form and even moderate nationalism are in permanent tension.

    Conflict between German Nationalism and Political Catholicism is hardly unknown, I am sure the German National State will find an appropriate solution to the question in the end.

  64. @German_reader
    I'm well aware of Catholic hypocrisy and the "impressive" possibilities it affords Catholics, but even that has its limits. And we're not talking about some priestly pronouncements about contraceptives or other sexual matters which one can just ignore...the Catholic church as an institution is massively involved in lobbying for mass immigration, and profits financially from it (at least in Germany, where they're big in the "refugee" business). Under those circumstances loyalty to the church as an institution in its present form and even moderate nationalism are in permanent tension.

    In America the Lutherans are equally involved in “refugee” settlement as the papists are.

    The truth is that other than hardcore denominations like the Amish that most Christian denominations are now simply liberals who also talk about how nice Jesus Christ was.

    Given that liberalism is really a Christian heresy, this makes sense.

    • Replies: @Rosie

    Given that liberalism is really a Christian heresy, this makes sense.
     
    That is precisely what it is.

    https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/Story/TabId/2672/ArtMID/13567/ArticleID/14079/Pope-Ancient-heresy-plagues-modern-Church.aspx
  65. @German_reader
    That's an interesting question. Maybe in the end it will indeed come down to a choice between passively letting oneself be destroyed or using the most ruthless and brutal violence (which of course would have a corrupting influence on one's own morals, one could easily enter a spiral of self-radicalizing escalation like the Nazis did; if one believes in that kind of thing, it might even cause divine retribution). Obviously it would be better if such a choice could be avoided. But if it can't, how is one to choose? There are no good answers to this imo.

    Obviously it would be better if such a choice could be avoided. But if it can’t, how is one to choose? There are no good answers to this imo.

    I realise that you are supposed to be the voice of reason here, but you can be too thoughtful at times.

    The instinctual answer is and always should be that we should side with our and ours always. No justification needed.

  66. @Thorfinnsson
    The still not dead Henry Kissinger is sane and about as Establishment it gets. He promotes allying with Russia to contain China.

    Gets very little traction.

    Likewise, the actual President of the United States more or less shares this view.

    Still apparently does not matter.

    I am deeply pessimistic about this, and what I've learned in the past two years is that we need a fascist dictatorship with massive purges.

    The still not dead Henry Kissinger is sane and about as Establishment it gets. He promotes allying with Russia to contain China.

    Gets very little traction.

    Likewise, the actual President of the United States more or less shares this view.

    Still apparently does not matter.

    I think the problem is less that institutionally the President is unable to overrule the Establishment’s foreign policy preferences, and more that Trump personally is just an easily manipulated dummy.

    If, say, Rand Paul or Tulsi Gabbard were to become president, I gave no doubt that US foreign policy towards Russia, and in general, would look very different.

  67. @Thorfinnsson
    The still not dead Henry Kissinger is sane and about as Establishment it gets. He promotes allying with Russia to contain China.

    Gets very little traction.

    Likewise, the actual President of the United States more or less shares this view.

    Still apparently does not matter.

    I am deeply pessimistic about this, and what I've learned in the past two years is that we need a fascist dictatorship with massive purges.

    I am deeply pessimistic about this, and what I’ve learned in the past two years is that we need a fascist dictatorship with massive purges.

    Agreed, though I wouldn’t call it “fascist dictatorship” but rather “popular democracy.”

    • Replies: @Talha

    rather “popular democracy.”
     
    Indeed, democracy legitimizes everything the masses want - as long as they want it. It is beautiful in a sense...absolute, morally impervious, invincible even.

    "We will it and it shall be so..." ...tremendous! We are now Prometheus and the fire is ours to do with as we please!

    Peace.
  68. @Thorfinnsson
    In America the Lutherans are equally involved in "refugee" settlement as the papists are.

    The truth is that other than hardcore denominations like the Amish that most Christian denominations are now simply liberals who also talk about how nice Jesus Christ was.

    Given that liberalism is really a Christian heresy, this makes sense.

    Given that liberalism is really a Christian heresy, this makes sense.

    That is precisely what it is.

    https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/Story/TabId/2672/ArtMID/13567/ArticleID/14079/Pope-Ancient-heresy-plagues-modern-Church.aspx

  69. Quick Takes

    An intellectually challenged rant from someone who has a high opinion of himself:

    https://nobsrussia.com/2018/09/29/finally/

    The so-called propaganda is relative. Actually, pro-Russian advocacy (whether Russian government involved in one way or the other or otherwise) covers the left-right prism.

    Regarding Lavrov’s UNGA address:

    https://www.rt.com/news/439914-west-diktat-un-lavrov/

    Meshes well with this piece, written without knowledge of what Lavrov said in his above discussed address. –

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/09/28/parallel-universe-thoughts-on-improving-russia-west-relations.html

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/29092018-parallel-universe-thoughts-on-improving-russia-west-relations-oped/

    As phony, crony, baloney establishment JRL features at its homepage the likes of Michael McFaul and Stephen Hadley-Michael Morrell exchanges. The JRL court appointed Russia friendly regulars don’t care, as long as they get their play.

    What’s needed to improve the coverage are earnestly hard hitting sources, who don’t don’t suck up to the ongoing BS. Showing favoritism for the likes of “The Kremlin Stooge” and “Awful Avalanche”, over the combined input of Srdja Trifkovic, James Jatras, the Strategic Culture Foundation and yes yours truly, among some others is quite warped.

  70. @Matra
    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Catholic Spain with its regular amnesties, or Protestant Denmark?

    Which American region is more friendly to migrants, Catholic leftist NY/New England or the conservative Protestant South?

    In Canada and Australia it is the same: Catholics voting for "tolerance" against an under-siege Anglo-Protestant population.

    Polish Catholics have joined the Jewish, Muslim coalition in the UK forever bitching about Brexiter intolerance and calling for more immigrants. Irish Catholics are part of the same coalition.

    BTW the Catholic Church is very hostile to Italy's great new government. I wouldn't be surprised if the Church ends up leading the resistance to Salvini's policies.

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Catholic Spain with its regular amnesties, or Protestant Denmark?

    Which one has higher percentage Muslims in 2050, Denmark or Spain:

    Indeed, with the exception of France and Austria it is the Protestant countries that have allowed themselves to be taken over the most. Coincidence?

    You are an ingrate. If not for Poles, Ukrainians, Italians etc. in Canada, that country’s Protestants, in addition to being further outnumbered, would have done to themselves what Protestants everywhere, such as England itself, have done to themselves. That’s just what Protestants do. Look at England.

    Which American region is more friendly to migrants, Catholic leftist NY/New England or the conservative Protestant South?

    New England is the whitest region in the USA:

    States with the highest percentages of non-Hispanic Whites, as of 2007:[55]

    Vermont 95.4%
    Maine 94.8%
    West Virginia 93.7%
    New Hampshire 93.4%
    Iowa 90.9%
    North Dakota 90.2%
    Montana 88.3%
    Kentucky 88.1%
    Wyoming 87.7%
    South Dakota 86.5%

    Boston is the only major American city where most kids are born to white parents.

    Lots of Mexicans moving to Georgia, NC and the Protestant southern states and Midwestern Great Plains.

    Polish Catholics have joined the Jewish, Muslim coalition in the UK

    Remove Polish Catholics and the European % of the population of England shrinks further. Polish Catholics in England also reproduce at a higher rate than do English Protestants, no?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Have you explored Spain? I've traveled across the country two years ago.

    Spain is full of Latin American (people like Mexican, Colombian, Bolivian, etc) immigrants and their children, which mainly have Spanish citizenship. This is by far the largest immigrant group. Latin American people are a huge group there, even in provincial areas.

    There are far more Catholic than Muslim immigrants to Spain (like in the USA). Although you hear quite a lot of Arab guys (hear more than see, because the guys visually similar to Spanish people) around Spain, as their Arabic conversations in the air.

  71. My main complaint about Russia is that all coverage of Russia all over the world lies in its government and geopolitics, and the little tourism industry that exists in Russia is largely geared towards its geopolitical past and present too. RT is a failure in that regard; instead of just covering geopolitics and western domestic politics from an old school leftist angle, it should start promoting Russia as a conservative SWPL stronghold, which means covering not just world news but also news in finance, arts, culture, and entertainment.

    The rest of the world understands and sees far too little of Russian civil society. For Russia to really get past Sovokism, it should let the world understand and appreciate its civil society. Japan is a great example of how relations with its historical enemy, China, rapidly improved after letting China learn about its civil society. By now, a critical mass of Chinese have become fans, which greatly simplifies the current China-initiated thawing of relations.

    Russia should do the same all over the world, but with special focus on the West; by the West, I mean Western Europe; promoting Russian culture and civil society would be an uphill battle in the Anglosphere. Ditto for East and Southeast Asia. However, promote Russia in a negative light in the Arab World, India, and Latin America as we don’t need men from these regions travel in the millions to Russia (Turkish sex tourists in Kiev anyone?)

    Streets and place names should be continued to be renamed imo. All districts, cities, and towns should revert to their original names or renamed into Tsarist era names. Communist streets should be renamed into Tsarist streets. Kremlin stars removed for the Imperial Eagle.

    • Replies: @Talha

    as we don’t need men from these regions travel in the millions to Russia
     
    You don’t need to portray Russia in a bad light since that will lose it legitimate business in those countries. Simply tighten up how and who you issue visas to. The two goals need not be mutually exclusive.

    Peace.
    , @anonymous coward
    You're assuming that the Russian tourism industry is in trouble, which isn't true.

    When I was in Kamchatka, it seemed like there was more foreigners there than locals. Juneau is probably a nice city, but somehow I doubt it is a hub of international tourism, despite a similar climate and similar natural attractions.

    P.S. I'm probably not going back to Kamchatka, the tourism industry seemed expensive and very underdeveloped there compared to places in the rest of Russia.
    , @Anonymous
    A country does not just export its culture like it is oil or something.

    What about Russian culture makes it so compelling that other countries would want to be influenced by it and consume it?

    I understand your point, but I don't see how that is going to happen.
    , @Swedish Family

    My main complaint about Russia is that all coverage of Russia all over the world lies in its government and geopolitics, and the little tourism industry that exists in Russia is largely geared towards its geopolitical past and present too. RT is a failure in that regard; instead of just covering geopolitics and western domestic politics from an old school leftist angle, it should start promoting Russia as a conservative SWPL stronghold, which means covering not just world news but also news in finance, arts, culture, and entertainment.
     
    I liked the whole post, but this is the key part.

    I would add only that such a change of course would also build great soft power. I believe it was Dmitry who wrote, half a year or so ago, that to study a foreign language is to fall in love with its culture. I very much agree with this and think the idea can be generalized to culture: the more you dip your toes into a foreign culture, the more it becomes part of you, and the more protective you get about it. This is soft power. (Psychologically, we may think of it as a general case of the familiarity effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect)
  72. @Jon0815

    Ukraine keeps winning. 3.8% GDP growth in the second quarter of 2018, which makes it the 11th straight quarter of GDP growth. Given the people leaving ot work abroad, this makes per capita growth much higher.
     
    Not much higher. World Bank puts Ukraine's 2017 GDP growth at 2.5%, vs. per capita GDP growth of 2.95%. And for a country as poor as Ukraine, 4% per capita growth is nothing to brag about. At a similar level of per capita GDP, Belarus had per capita growth of 12%, Kazakhstan 9%, and Russia 8%.

    Not much higher. World Bank puts Ukraine’s 2017 GDP growth at 2.5%, vs. per capita GDP growth of 2.95%. And for a country as poor as Ukraine, 4% per capita growth is nothing to brag about.

    Why? Morocco has similar nominal per capita GDP and its growth hasn’t been at or above 4% since 2008. Honduras, likewise close to Ukraine and it hasn’t done so since 2006.

    At a similar level of per capita GDP, Belarus had per capita growth of 12%, Kazakhstan 9%, and Russia 8%.

    How was oil price growing at that time? Were any of them at war?

    • Replies: @Jon0815

    Why? Morocco has similar nominal per capita GDP and its growth hasn’t been at or above 4% since 2008. Honduras, likewise close to Ukraine and it hasn’t done so since 2006.
     
    They don't have Ukraine's human capital. To have an average IQ of about 100, per capita GDP of <$3000, and still generate per capita growth of only 3-4% is not very impressive. The Eurozone managed 2% growth in 2017, with nearly 15 times Ukraine's per capita GDP.

    How was oil price growing at that time?
     
    Even if you completely discount oil's share of their per capita growth, it was still much faster than Ukraine's growth at the same per capita GDP level.

    Serbia (significantly lower average IQ than Ukraine) reached 9% per capita growth, and averaged about 7%, at similar per capita level. Romania reached 10% and averaged around 8%. Etc.


    Were any of them at war?
     
    To the extent that low-grade conflict in Donbass is a war, it is a war of choice that Ukraine could end at any time, simply by not lobbing shells into civilian neighborhoods any more.
  73. @German_reader

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden
     
    That's like asking whether plague or cholera is worse. Anyway, the question isn't whether Italians in general are more anti-immigration than Swedes or Germans (Germans btw aren't just Protestants, the Catholic church is very influential in parts of Germany), it's about the attitude of Catholic clergy, and in Italy as in Germany and other European countries the church is definitely lobbying for mass immigration. I've read comments on the net by Italians who feel similarly about that as I do, so my sentiment is hardly just some Teutonic specialty.
    You can also read this:
    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2018/03/italys-rebellion

    There are disagreements between the Catholic hierarchy and the populists who are trying to reclaim the Christian identity they see as being under threat. The archbishop of Milan, Mario Delpini, criticized Salvini’s use of the Gospel and the rosary at his rally. “Rallies should be about politics,” he argued.

    “I never expected that we would have so many difficulties with the Italian Church,” said Morelli. He tried repeatedly to book an appointment with the archbishop of Milan, to no avail. “They keep telling me they’re busy,” he said. “I don’t understand. There is general hostility from the Catholic Church towards us, but they support the morally relativist and Islamist-friendly Partito Democratico.”

    The key issue is immigration. Whereas Pope Benedict talked about “the right not to emigrate”—the right of would-be emigrants to find livable conditions in their home countries—Pope Francis now talks about Western countries’ “duty to accept” migrants. In 2016, Salvini held up a shirt that read: “My Pope is Benedict.” In a speech in 2016, he reiterated Benedict’s words: “I remember what he said about immigration—that before having the right to emigrate, there should be a right not to emigrate.”

    Pope Francis’s words are increasingly alienating to Europeans who are becoming skeptical about their duty to accept anyone and everyone who reaches their shores. But the Church has doubled down on its position. After the election result showed a win for populist parties, Pope Francis expressed his concern: “The world today is often inhabited by fear. It is an ancient disease. … And fear often turns against people who are foreign, different, poor, as if they were enemies.”
     

    Anyway, the question isn’t whether Italians in general are more anti-immigration than Swedes or Germans (Germans btw aren’t just Protestants, the Catholic church is very influential in parts of Germany)

    Are Bavarians more tolerant of migration than people in Berlin? CDU more than CSU?

    Current Pope is unlike the previous one but so far it is not a trend, it’s one person.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Are Bavarians more tolerant of migration than people in Berlin?
     
    Southern Germany is indeed better than northwest Germany, but there's no correlation with Catholicism imo. North-Rhine-Westphalia is an absolute shit state and pc nightmare, and has a heavy Catholic imprint (e.g. its current prime minister Armin Laschet, a loyal Merkel servant and once called "Türken-Armin" because of his pandering to Turks, is a pious Catholic; Rhineland Catholics are a very large part of the CDU).
    The most anti-migration parts of Germany are of course in the former East Germany where a large part of the population isn't even nominally Christian anymore.
    As for the CSU, I've already mentioned in a previous thread that their chief representative in the European parliament Manfred Weber is agitating for African mass immigration. The CSU today is largely a fraud, and there's a significant likelihood that they'll enter into a coalition with the fanatically open borders-Greens after the Bavarian elections in mid-October.
    As for the pope, I'm reasonably certain that one could find pro-migration statements by John Paul II, and the catechism of the Catholic Church has a section about the duty (!) of developed countries to accept even purely economic migrants. Ratzinger wasn't that offensive, but the general trend of the Catholic church is definitely pro-open borders.
  74. @Polish Perspective
    Islam is a very authoritarian religion, likely because its leader understood his own people all too well. I've read a lot of sociological material on schools in Western Europe and one of the recurring themes is that you have white liberal teachers naïvely thinking that the same rules which applies for white kids must also apply for muslim kids. After all, race-blind liberalism is the dogma which they were fed all their lives.

    Chief among these assumptions is an implicit expectation that there has to be a certain amount of self-discipline and that the teacher shouldn't need to beat the kids to get them to behave.

    Naturally, this does not work well. Hence, chaos is ever-present. The quotes which keep coming back when the 2nd gen immigrant kids are interviewed keep being "the teacher must show more authority". So, I do think you're right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now, if we can even imagine that. Then again, I don't necessarily think Christianity is the solution either.

    There was a great article on the huge surge of violence in Latin America published a week ago. Latin America is now home to 30% of global homicides with less than 8% of the population. Mexico and Brazil are both quite religious, certainly far more than even Poland.
    What this shows is that race is a much more significant predictor than religion for future behaviour.

    I have sometimes come across the claim, from US conservatives, that the reason why there was much less dysfunction among US blacks pre-1960s was because the culture was more wholesome(which equates to more religious in their mind). I would counter this by pointing out that blacks did not have much choice or, frankly, space, to chimp out if they wanted to. Overwhelming white repression, unquestionably white authority and unbridled white institutional power made sure that there was no opportunity, chiefly view the Jim Crow laws that were ruthlessly enforced.

    As the civil rights era came, these repressions went away and violence skyrocketed in the 60s(as Sailer has written about many times). So I am in general skeptical about the role of religion here, though I will concede that heavily religious societies tend to have less bad shit like feminism, tranny BS etc. The only drawback is that such societies often tend to forego other, more important aspects like ethnicity or race. Religious groups which are tied to ethnicity (such as Jews) don't mind this, because they can always appeal to religious sentiment. Which is why US conservatives are the most philosemitic and the biggest shabbos goyim for Israel there is.

    LOL! I’m such a dork at times…I just realized that you said:
    “So, I do think you’re right that a Middle East without Islam will likely be even bloodier than it is now…”

    Not…
    “So, I don’t think you’re right…”

    Sorry for wasting your time on that point.

    Peace.

  75. @AquariusAnon
    My main complaint about Russia is that all coverage of Russia all over the world lies in its government and geopolitics, and the little tourism industry that exists in Russia is largely geared towards its geopolitical past and present too. RT is a failure in that regard; instead of just covering geopolitics and western domestic politics from an old school leftist angle, it should start promoting Russia as a conservative SWPL stronghold, which means covering not just world news but also news in finance, arts, culture, and entertainment.

    The rest of the world understands and sees far too little of Russian civil society. For Russia to really get past Sovokism, it should let the world understand and appreciate its civil society. Japan is a great example of how relations with its historical enemy, China, rapidly improved after letting China learn about its civil society. By now, a critical mass of Chinese have become fans, which greatly simplifies the current China-initiated thawing of relations.

    Russia should do the same all over the world, but with special focus on the West; by the West, I mean Western Europe; promoting Russian culture and civil society would be an uphill battle in the Anglosphere. Ditto for East and Southeast Asia. However, promote Russia in a negative light in the Arab World, India, and Latin America as we don't need men from these regions travel in the millions to Russia (Turkish sex tourists in Kiev anyone?)

    Streets and place names should be continued to be renamed imo. All districts, cities, and towns should revert to their original names or renamed into Tsarist era names. Communist streets should be renamed into Tsarist streets. Kremlin stars removed for the Imperial Eagle.

    as we don’t need men from these regions travel in the millions to Russia

    You don’t need to portray Russia in a bad light since that will lose it legitimate business in those countries. Simply tighten up how and who you issue visas to. The two goals need not be mutually exclusive.

    Peace.

  76. AK – what are your thoughts on Linux getting pwned, in Moldbug’s words?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Not following that.

    I'm assuming there'll be forks and the ones not infested with SJW crazies will emerge as the more successful ones, as Gnon wills.
    , @Jaakko Raipala
    It's a self-own if anything. Linus Torvalds is one of the militant leftists who somehow thought that the leftism would never get to him. I think a lot of people mistook him as some sort of a shitlord because he was a big rude NIMBY who wanted to run *his* project *his* way and got into arguments with SJWs but he was never against them in principle, just for his project.

    Mr Torvalds used to be a very active poster on Finnish USENET in the 1990s and he was one of the militant atheist skeptic people, the generation of aggressive leftists that came before the current generation of SJW trannies and PoC-allies. I think he tried to hide it in English for a while after he got feedback that making fun of Jesus at every opportunity could be bad for career prospects in America but this whole extremely leftish ethos of the "free software" stuff should have been a clue that the man was raised as a communist.

    His father is a MEP and one of the worst people in this country...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Torvalds

    ...one of the "former communist" journalists who have switched sides from pro-Sovietism to NATO, EU and "diversity". Linus rarely comments on our politics these days but when he does he is in agreement with his "former communist" father and the rest of his "former communist" family. If the SJWs destroy Linux with "diversity" it is just desserts for Linus.
  77. @Talha

    SAD. Nature: How DNA fends off a favourite gene-editing tool. Using CRISPR for certain genetic edits might be far harder than expected.
     
    Has it occurred to people that perhaps this is a fail-safe that was achieved over millions and millions of years of development of organisms in order to protect from the adverse effects of, say, a virus or something else that could alter genetic code in order to exploit a vulnerability. And that perhaps there was a conflict of this nature in the distant past that led to this limitation surviving and perpetuating itself forward?

    Peace.

    Meh. So’s the blood-brain barrier, but we get through it pretty easily now.

    I imagine we’ll find a way.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Possibly - if God allows (like the splitting of the atom or breaking through the atmosphere), then anything on this front is not beyond reach...whether one should do it is another matter.

    I actually don't really care what non-Muslims do on this front - even if they go into human genetic manipulation - any more than I care that they eat pork while bathing in a vat of Smirnoff. I think there are some potentially very dangerous outcomes as you mess with that stuff, I'd rather not have some kind of a Jurassic Park/12 Monkeys/Planet of the Apes situation.

    So I would like this kind of research eventually isolated to an island or something that can be easily quarantined or (if necessary) glassed.

    The ideal would be to make it go hand in hand with the colonization of Mars so that a new human species or whatever they want to call themselves arises on another planet.

    Peace.

  78. @AquariusAnon
    My main complaint about Russia is that all coverage of Russia all over the world lies in its government and geopolitics, and the little tourism industry that exists in Russia is largely geared towards its geopolitical past and present too. RT is a failure in that regard; instead of just covering geopolitics and western domestic politics from an old school leftist angle, it should start promoting Russia as a conservative SWPL stronghold, which means covering not just world news but also news in finance, arts, culture, and entertainment.

    The rest of the world understands and sees far too little of Russian civil society. For Russia to really get past Sovokism, it should let the world understand and appreciate its civil society. Japan is a great example of how relations with its historical enemy, China, rapidly improved after letting China learn about its civil society. By now, a critical mass of Chinese have become fans, which greatly simplifies the current China-initiated thawing of relations.

    Russia should do the same all over the world, but with special focus on the West; by the West, I mean Western Europe; promoting Russian culture and civil society would be an uphill battle in the Anglosphere. Ditto for East and Southeast Asia. However, promote Russia in a negative light in the Arab World, India, and Latin America as we don't need men from these regions travel in the millions to Russia (Turkish sex tourists in Kiev anyone?)

    Streets and place names should be continued to be renamed imo. All districts, cities, and towns should revert to their original names or renamed into Tsarist era names. Communist streets should be renamed into Tsarist streets. Kremlin stars removed for the Imperial Eagle.

    You’re assuming that the Russian tourism industry is in trouble, which isn’t true.

    When I was in Kamchatka, it seemed like there was more foreigners there than locals. Juneau is probably a nice city, but somehow I doubt it is a hub of international tourism, despite a similar climate and similar natural attractions.

    P.S. I’m probably not going back to Kamchatka, the tourism industry seemed expensive and very underdeveloped there compared to places in the rest of Russia.

    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
    Do you mean Chinese tourists? The cheap group tours trash everywhere they go, so having them in masses is awful too.

    And if you mean by high end tourists from a mix of countries (and I'm including China in here too), its because Kamchatka is known for its natural scenery.

    I'm not even talking about just tourism, but promotion of Russian culture beyond geopolitics: See Russian Anglophilia as an example; this is where the Brits did really well. Large scale Western European Russophilia is needed too in order for Russia to really be that based SWPL shining city upon the hill as Western Europe descends into a chaotic, crime ridden, racially and culturally acrimonious 30% nonwhite shithole barely holding onto first world status by a thread.
  79. @anonymous coward
    You're assuming that the Russian tourism industry is in trouble, which isn't true.

    When I was in Kamchatka, it seemed like there was more foreigners there than locals. Juneau is probably a nice city, but somehow I doubt it is a hub of international tourism, despite a similar climate and similar natural attractions.

    P.S. I'm probably not going back to Kamchatka, the tourism industry seemed expensive and very underdeveloped there compared to places in the rest of Russia.

    Do you mean Chinese tourists? The cheap group tours trash everywhere they go, so having them in masses is awful too.

    And if you mean by high end tourists from a mix of countries (and I’m including China in here too), its because Kamchatka is known for its natural scenery.

    I’m not even talking about just tourism, but promotion of Russian culture beyond geopolitics: See Russian Anglophilia as an example; this is where the Brits did really well. Large scale Western European Russophilia is needed too in order for Russia to really be that based SWPL shining city upon the hill as Western Europe descends into a chaotic, crime ridden, racially and culturally acrimonious 30% nonwhite shithole barely holding onto first world status by a thread.

    • Replies: @utu
    Visualizing Where Tourists Spend the Most Money
    http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/visualizing-where-tourists-spend-the-most-money/
    , @anonymous coward

    Do you mean Chinese tourists?
     
    Those too, but not only them. Kamchatka is the weird kind of place where you can be driving off-road through the middle of nowhere and find some hitchhiking tourist from Grenoble who doesn't speak Russian or English.

    its because Kamchatka is known for its natural scenery.
     
    I'll tell you a secret -- the North American northwest is pretty much the same thing. :)

    See Russian Anglophilia as an example; this is where the Brits did really well.
     
    Anglophilia is a really old phenomenon, it dates back to the turn of the 19th century. People who engage in it today are doing it in that context; it's not so much that they like Britain, it's more that they like that turn-of-the-century aristocratic yet modern aesthetic.

    Large scale Western European Russophilia is needed
     
    That's pretty much impossible. Russians don't give a shit what foreigners think about them, in fact would prefer to be left alone.
  80. @AquariusAnon
    Do you mean Chinese tourists? The cheap group tours trash everywhere they go, so having them in masses is awful too.

    And if you mean by high end tourists from a mix of countries (and I'm including China in here too), its because Kamchatka is known for its natural scenery.

    I'm not even talking about just tourism, but promotion of Russian culture beyond geopolitics: See Russian Anglophilia as an example; this is where the Brits did really well. Large scale Western European Russophilia is needed too in order for Russia to really be that based SWPL shining city upon the hill as Western Europe descends into a chaotic, crime ridden, racially and culturally acrimonious 30% nonwhite shithole barely holding onto first world status by a thread.
    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    Lots of flaws with that. For example, Germany and China are top outbound tourism destinations for Russians, according to official stats.

    Obviously, most of that is business and/or personal trips registered as 'tourism' officially.
  81. @AquariusAnon
    Do you mean Chinese tourists? The cheap group tours trash everywhere they go, so having them in masses is awful too.

    And if you mean by high end tourists from a mix of countries (and I'm including China in here too), its because Kamchatka is known for its natural scenery.

    I'm not even talking about just tourism, but promotion of Russian culture beyond geopolitics: See Russian Anglophilia as an example; this is where the Brits did really well. Large scale Western European Russophilia is needed too in order for Russia to really be that based SWPL shining city upon the hill as Western Europe descends into a chaotic, crime ridden, racially and culturally acrimonious 30% nonwhite shithole barely holding onto first world status by a thread.

    Do you mean Chinese tourists?

    Those too, but not only them. Kamchatka is the weird kind of place where you can be driving off-road through the middle of nowhere and find some hitchhiking tourist from Grenoble who doesn’t speak Russian or English.

    its because Kamchatka is known for its natural scenery.

    I’ll tell you a secret — the North American northwest is pretty much the same thing. :)

    See Russian Anglophilia as an example; this is where the Brits did really well.

    Anglophilia is a really old phenomenon, it dates back to the turn of the 19th century. People who engage in it today are doing it in that context; it’s not so much that they like Britain, it’s more that they like that turn-of-the-century aristocratic yet modern aesthetic.

    Large scale Western European Russophilia is needed

    That’s pretty much impossible. Russians don’t give a shit what foreigners think about them, in fact would prefer to be left alone.

  82. @utu
    Visualizing Where Tourists Spend the Most Money
    http://www.investmentwatchblog.com/visualizing-where-tourists-spend-the-most-money/

    Lots of flaws with that. For example, Germany and China are top outbound tourism destinations for Russians, according to official stats.

    Obviously, most of that is business and/or personal trips registered as ‘tourism’ officially.

  83. @Daniel Chieh
    AK - what are your thoughts on Linux getting pwned, in Moldbug's words?

    Not following that.

    I’m assuming there’ll be forks and the ones not infested with SJW crazies will emerge as the more successful ones, as Gnon wills.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    What do you think of Astra Linux?

    https://бэсм-6.рф/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/preview_boxes.jpg
  84. @Anatoly Karlin
    Not following that.

    I'm assuming there'll be forks and the ones not infested with SJW crazies will emerge as the more successful ones, as Gnon wills.

    What do you think of Astra Linux?

  85. My two cents on the Catholicism vs. Protestantism debate here…

    1. All these discussions are massively confounded by two factors:

    a) The sort of peoples who went for Protestantism five centuries ago are also the sort of people who may be more prone to #RefugeesWelcome in the first place.

    b) The Protestant countries have generally been economically developed for a longer time period – itself an outgrowth of both their own national qualities, as well as Protestantism’s independent positive effects on increased literacy in prior centuries, which constituted the original source of their economic lead – and thus have had a longer time to build up a larger pool of refugees. Recall that much of Catholic Europe (bar France) only really “converged” with Core Europe after the 1970s… and not fully either.

    Swedish insanity would not be an issue if it had the wages and social welfare of Romania… or even Portugal.

    These issues are so central that I see little point in heated arguments about this issue.

    2. The solution, at least, is rather obvious. Christian hierarchs need to recall that they need to give unto God, God’s, and unto Caesar, Caesar’s.

    If the Antipope who currently squats in the Vatican insists on dictating runaway leftism on his global flock, then he needs to be given the boot. Polish Perspective’s idea about leaving the Roman fold and essentially remodeling Polish Catholicism into a national church is one that makes a lot of sense to me. It’s what Henry VIII did, after all, and for far baser reasons.

    The situation with Protestantism is actually tricker, since there is no central authority that can be rejected and remolded in our own image. But it’s not all bad. It also means that no Protestant pastor has the influence of a Pope, which allows people to flow to congregations closer to their own values. So there, the cultural struggle takes place at the social level, with religion entirely downstream of it.

    • Agree: Hyperborean
    • Replies: @Talha

    Christian hierarchs need to recall that they need to give unto God, God’s, and unto Caesar, Caesar’s.
     
    This is very interesting because it is often the cry of the Liberal-Left in marginalizing the religious voice or sentiment in society. Caesar, of course, was a pagan ruler who was outside the sphere of influence. The nascent Christian community had neither the means to challenge or seriously influence Caesar. Caesar did what he willed and the subjects dealt with circumstances as best they could.

    Now - while we have taken on democratic forms (almost universally in the West) - we, ourselves are Caesar-collective. Caesar is us and we are Caesar.

    The underlying assumption here is that - God must listen to our dictates or step aside. It is interesting how pervasive the Enlightenment-era concepts are. Both sides of the opposition are mired to the same discourse...both want God and His institutions "remolded in our own image."

    Perhaps it's simply not something that can be escaped (in the long run) in religions where God incarnates into an avatar of one form or another...I don't know.

    Peace.
    , @German_reader

    Polish Perspective’s idea about leaving the Roman fold and essentially remodeling Polish Catholicism into a national church is one that makes a lot of sense to me.
     
    It makes sense to you, because you're not a believer (at least it doesn't seem like that to me) and have a purely instrumental view of religion. If one believes that the pope is indeed the vicar of Christ on earth, the issue of breaking away from Rome (after more than a thousand years...and in the case of Poland also untold numbers of Catholic priests and devout laymen who died for patriotic causes) becomes rather more difficult on both an intellectual and emotional level.
    , @Jaakko Raipala
    The "starting your own church" part is only really true in America. The state churches of northern Europe are very centralized. Every priest goes through state university training and even theology is now extremely pozzed. In a couple of decades they went from not admitting females to the majority of new priests being female.

    Starting your own church is about as realistic as starting your own Facebook. You can't use the church buildings, you no longer get to bury people in local graveyards and so on. In a smaller town the church probably owns a lot of family stuff like camping grounds, playgrounds and such so if you start your own church your kids can't join the boy scouts, they'll be shut out of some daycares and so on. The church is an effective monopoly over a lot of important stuff.

    I grew up in a small town and I went to school with some kids from really religious families who had left the Lutheran church for being too pozzed and they were pretty damn isolated from the rest of us. The Lutheran church is all about "tolerance" and "inclusion" when it comes to Muslims but it's not even remotely "tolerant" or "inclusive" with traditionalist Christian movements.

    At this point I'm an accelerationist, let them give us transsexual priests, Muslims welcome parties and the like until everyone agrees that we should dismantle the Lutheran church and nationalize its properties like the commies always wanted. Though the leftists might flip on this if they realize that the church now belongs to them...
  86. @AquariusAnon
    My main complaint about Russia is that all coverage of Russia all over the world lies in its government and geopolitics, and the little tourism industry that exists in Russia is largely geared towards its geopolitical past and present too. RT is a failure in that regard; instead of just covering geopolitics and western domestic politics from an old school leftist angle, it should start promoting Russia as a conservative SWPL stronghold, which means covering not just world news but also news in finance, arts, culture, and entertainment.

    The rest of the world understands and sees far too little of Russian civil society. For Russia to really get past Sovokism, it should let the world understand and appreciate its civil society. Japan is a great example of how relations with its historical enemy, China, rapidly improved after letting China learn about its civil society. By now, a critical mass of Chinese have become fans, which greatly simplifies the current China-initiated thawing of relations.

    Russia should do the same all over the world, but with special focus on the West; by the West, I mean Western Europe; promoting Russian culture and civil society would be an uphill battle in the Anglosphere. Ditto for East and Southeast Asia. However, promote Russia in a negative light in the Arab World, India, and Latin America as we don't need men from these regions travel in the millions to Russia (Turkish sex tourists in Kiev anyone?)

    Streets and place names should be continued to be renamed imo. All districts, cities, and towns should revert to their original names or renamed into Tsarist era names. Communist streets should be renamed into Tsarist streets. Kremlin stars removed for the Imperial Eagle.

    A country does not just export its culture like it is oil or something.

    What about Russian culture makes it so compelling that other countries would want to be influenced by it and consume it?

    I understand your point, but I don’t see how that is going to happen.

    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
    Right now, not much, but what stops it from making good movies, music, and its own brand of SWPL culture mixed with conservatism/nationalism that's exportable?

    Keep in mind that Sovokism was exported worldwide to varying degrees of success.
  87. @AP

    Not much higher. World Bank puts Ukraine’s 2017 GDP growth at 2.5%, vs. per capita GDP growth of 2.95%. And for a country as poor as Ukraine, 4% per capita growth is nothing to brag about.
     
    Why? Morocco has similar nominal per capita GDP and its growth hasn't been at or above 4% since 2008. Honduras, likewise close to Ukraine and it hasn't done so since 2006.

    At a similar level of per capita GDP, Belarus had per capita growth of 12%, Kazakhstan 9%, and Russia 8%.
     
    How was oil price growing at that time? Were any of them at war?

    Why? Morocco has similar nominal per capita GDP and its growth hasn’t been at or above 4% since 2008. Honduras, likewise close to Ukraine and it hasn’t done so since 2006.

    They don’t have Ukraine’s human capital. To have an average IQ of about 100, per capita GDP of <$3000, and still generate per capita growth of only 3-4% is not very impressive. The Eurozone managed 2% growth in 2017, with nearly 15 times Ukraine’s per capita GDP.

    How was oil price growing at that time?

    Even if you completely discount oil’s share of their per capita growth, it was still much faster than Ukraine’s growth at the same per capita GDP level.

    Serbia (significantly lower average IQ than Ukraine) reached 9% per capita growth, and averaged about 7%, at similar per capita level. Romania reached 10% and averaged around 8%. Etc.

    Were any of them at war?

    To the extent that low-grade conflict in Donbass is a war, it is a war of choice that Ukraine could end at any time, simply by not lobbing shells into civilian neighborhoods any more.

    • Replies: @AP

    How was oil price growing at that time?

    Even if you completely discount oil’s share of their per capita growth, it was still much faster than Ukraine’s growth at the same per capita GDP level.

    Serbia (significantly lower average IQ than Ukraine) reached 9% per capita growth, and averaged about 7%, at similar per capita level. Romania reached 10% and averaged around 8%. Etc.

     

    It's also a matter of timing. Prior to 2008 Ukraine had reached 12% growth. Post 2009, 4% is rather good.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=UA-RS
  88. @Daniel Chieh
    Meh. So's the blood-brain barrier, but we get through it pretty easily now.

    I imagine we'll find a way.

    Possibly – if God allows (like the splitting of the atom or breaking through the atmosphere), then anything on this front is not beyond reach…whether one should do it is another matter.

    I actually don’t really care what non-Muslims do on this front – even if they go into human genetic manipulation – any more than I care that they eat pork while bathing in a vat of Smirnoff. I think there are some potentially very dangerous outcomes as you mess with that stuff, I’d rather not have some kind of a Jurassic Park/12 Monkeys/Planet of the Apes situation.

    So I would like this kind of research eventually isolated to an island or something that can be easily quarantined or (if necessary) glassed.

    The ideal would be to make it go hand in hand with the colonization of Mars so that a new human species or whatever they want to call themselves arises on another planet.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Your outcome is negative for infants with genetic diseases.

    https://youtu.be/Kq5KWLqUewc

  89. @Anatoly Karlin
    My two cents on the Catholicism vs. Protestantism debate here...

    1. All these discussions are massively confounded by two factors:

    a) The sort of peoples who went for Protestantism five centuries ago are also the sort of people who may be more prone to #RefugeesWelcome in the first place.

    b) The Protestant countries have generally been economically developed for a longer time period - itself an outgrowth of both their own national qualities, as well as Protestantism's independent positive effects on increased literacy in prior centuries, which constituted the original source of their economic lead - and thus have had a longer time to build up a larger pool of refugees. Recall that much of Catholic Europe (bar France) only really "converged" with Core Europe after the 1970s... and not fully either.

    Swedish insanity would not be an issue if it had the wages and social welfare of Romania... or even Portugal.

    These issues are so central that I see little point in heated arguments about this issue.

    2. The solution, at least, is rather obvious. Christian hierarchs need to recall that they need to give unto God, God's, and unto Caesar, Caesar's.

    If the Antipope who currently squats in the Vatican insists on dictating runaway leftism on his global flock, then he needs to be given the boot. Polish Perspective's idea about leaving the Roman fold and essentially remodeling Polish Catholicism into a national church is one that makes a lot of sense to me. It's what Henry VIII did, after all, and for far baser reasons.

    The situation with Protestantism is actually tricker, since there is no central authority that can be rejected and remolded in our own image. But it's not all bad. It also means that no Protestant pastor has the influence of a Pope, which allows people to flow to congregations closer to their own values. So there, the cultural struggle takes place at the social level, with religion entirely downstream of it.

    Christian hierarchs need to recall that they need to give unto God, God’s, and unto Caesar, Caesar’s.

    This is very interesting because it is often the cry of the Liberal-Left in marginalizing the religious voice or sentiment in society. Caesar, of course, was a pagan ruler who was outside the sphere of influence. The nascent Christian community had neither the means to challenge or seriously influence Caesar. Caesar did what he willed and the subjects dealt with circumstances as best they could.

    Now – while we have taken on democratic forms (almost universally in the West) – we, ourselves are Caesar-collective. Caesar is us and we are Caesar.

    The underlying assumption here is that – God must listen to our dictates or step aside. It is interesting how pervasive the Enlightenment-era concepts are. Both sides of the opposition are mired to the same discourse…both want God and His institutions “remolded in our own image.”

    Perhaps it’s simply not something that can be escaped (in the long run) in religions where God incarnates into an avatar of one form or another…I don’t know.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    It is interesting how pervasive the Enlightenment-era concepts are.
     
    It has nothing to do with the Enlightenment, there's a long history of conflict between the papacy and secular powers, going back at least to the 1070s when pope Gregory VII and the German king (later Roman emperor) Henry IV tried to depose each other. The reference to "give unto Caesar" was a common tactic for kings and other secular powers to argue against papal encroachments (which around 1200 basically took the form of pretensions to a universal papal monarchy with the right of demanding complete obedience from the kings of Christendom, kind of like a Christian caliph). Arguments about the proper relationship between the church and secular rulers have been a prominent feature of at least Western Christendom for a very long time (I don't know enough about the Orthodox world, maybe Karlin or some Russian commenter can comment).
    It's kind of telling that you're apparently unable to understand this, yet more proof how different and alien Islam is.
  90. @AP

    Anyway, the question isn’t whether Italians in general are more anti-immigration than Swedes or Germans (Germans btw aren’t just Protestants, the Catholic church is very influential in parts of Germany)
     
    Are Bavarians more tolerant of migration than people in Berlin? CDU more than CSU?

    Current Pope is unlike the previous one but so far it is not a trend, it's one person.

    Are Bavarians more tolerant of migration than people in Berlin?

    Southern Germany is indeed better than northwest Germany, but there’s no correlation with Catholicism imo. North-Rhine-Westphalia is an absolute shit state and pc nightmare, and has a heavy Catholic imprint (e.g. its current prime minister Armin Laschet, a loyal Merkel servant and once called “Türken-Armin” because of his pandering to Turks, is a pious Catholic; Rhineland Catholics are a very large part of the CDU).
    The most anti-migration parts of Germany are of course in the former East Germany where a large part of the population isn’t even nominally Christian anymore.
    As for the CSU, I’ve already mentioned in a previous thread that their chief representative in the European parliament Manfred Weber is agitating for African mass immigration. The CSU today is largely a fraud, and there’s a significant likelihood that they’ll enter into a coalition with the fanatically open borders-Greens after the Bavarian elections in mid-October.
    As for the pope, I’m reasonably certain that one could find pro-migration statements by John Paul II, and the catechism of the Catholic Church has a section about the duty (!) of developed countries to accept even purely economic migrants. Ratzinger wasn’t that offensive, but the general trend of the Catholic church is definitely pro-open borders.

  91. @Rosie

    I am deeply pessimistic about this, and what I’ve learned in the past two years is that we need a fascist dictatorship with massive purges.
     
    Agreed, though I wouldn't call it "fascist dictatorship" but rather "popular democracy."

    rather “popular democracy.”

    Indeed, democracy legitimizes everything the masses want – as long as they want it. It is beautiful in a sense…absolute, morally impervious, invincible even.

    “We will it and it shall be so…” …tremendous! We are now Prometheus and the fire is ours to do with as we please!

    Peace.

  92. @Anatoly Karlin
    My two cents on the Catholicism vs. Protestantism debate here...

    1. All these discussions are massively confounded by two factors:

    a) The sort of peoples who went for Protestantism five centuries ago are also the sort of people who may be more prone to #RefugeesWelcome in the first place.

    b) The Protestant countries have generally been economically developed for a longer time period - itself an outgrowth of both their own national qualities, as well as Protestantism's independent positive effects on increased literacy in prior centuries, which constituted the original source of their economic lead - and thus have had a longer time to build up a larger pool of refugees. Recall that much of Catholic Europe (bar France) only really "converged" with Core Europe after the 1970s... and not fully either.

    Swedish insanity would not be an issue if it had the wages and social welfare of Romania... or even Portugal.

    These issues are so central that I see little point in heated arguments about this issue.

    2. The solution, at least, is rather obvious. Christian hierarchs need to recall that they need to give unto God, God's, and unto Caesar, Caesar's.

    If the Antipope who currently squats in the Vatican insists on dictating runaway leftism on his global flock, then he needs to be given the boot. Polish Perspective's idea about leaving the Roman fold and essentially remodeling Polish Catholicism into a national church is one that makes a lot of sense to me. It's what Henry VIII did, after all, and for far baser reasons.

    The situation with Protestantism is actually tricker, since there is no central authority that can be rejected and remolded in our own image. But it's not all bad. It also means that no Protestant pastor has the influence of a Pope, which allows people to flow to congregations closer to their own values. So there, the cultural struggle takes place at the social level, with religion entirely downstream of it.

    Polish Perspective’s idea about leaving the Roman fold and essentially remodeling Polish Catholicism into a national church is one that makes a lot of sense to me.

    It makes sense to you, because you’re not a believer (at least it doesn’t seem like that to me) and have a purely instrumental view of religion. If one believes that the pope is indeed the vicar of Christ on earth, the issue of breaking away from Rome (after more than a thousand years…and in the case of Poland also untold numbers of Catholic priests and devout laymen who died for patriotic causes) becomes rather more difficult on both an intellectual and emotional level.

    • Replies: @AP
    Correct. And there have been worse Popes in the past. This one will pass also.
  93. @Jon0815

    Why? Morocco has similar nominal per capita GDP and its growth hasn’t been at or above 4% since 2008. Honduras, likewise close to Ukraine and it hasn’t done so since 2006.
     
    They don't have Ukraine's human capital. To have an average IQ of about 100, per capita GDP of <$3000, and still generate per capita growth of only 3-4% is not very impressive. The Eurozone managed 2% growth in 2017, with nearly 15 times Ukraine's per capita GDP.

    How was oil price growing at that time?
     
    Even if you completely discount oil's share of their per capita growth, it was still much faster than Ukraine's growth at the same per capita GDP level.

    Serbia (significantly lower average IQ than Ukraine) reached 9% per capita growth, and averaged about 7%, at similar per capita level. Romania reached 10% and averaged around 8%. Etc.


    Were any of them at war?
     
    To the extent that low-grade conflict in Donbass is a war, it is a war of choice that Ukraine could end at any time, simply by not lobbing shells into civilian neighborhoods any more.

    How was oil price growing at that time?

    Even if you completely discount oil’s share of their per capita growth, it was still much faster than Ukraine’s growth at the same per capita GDP level.

    Serbia (significantly lower average IQ than Ukraine) reached 9% per capita growth, and averaged about 7%, at similar per capita level. Romania reached 10% and averaged around 8%. Etc.

    It’s also a matter of timing. Prior to 2008 Ukraine had reached 12% growth. Post 2009, 4% is rather good.

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=UA-RS

  94. @German_reader

    Polish Perspective’s idea about leaving the Roman fold and essentially remodeling Polish Catholicism into a national church is one that makes a lot of sense to me.
     
    It makes sense to you, because you're not a believer (at least it doesn't seem like that to me) and have a purely instrumental view of religion. If one believes that the pope is indeed the vicar of Christ on earth, the issue of breaking away from Rome (after more than a thousand years...and in the case of Poland also untold numbers of Catholic priests and devout laymen who died for patriotic causes) becomes rather more difficult on both an intellectual and emotional level.

    Correct. And there have been worse Popes in the past. This one will pass also.

  95. @Talha
    Possibly - if God allows (like the splitting of the atom or breaking through the atmosphere), then anything on this front is not beyond reach...whether one should do it is another matter.

    I actually don't really care what non-Muslims do on this front - even if they go into human genetic manipulation - any more than I care that they eat pork while bathing in a vat of Smirnoff. I think there are some potentially very dangerous outcomes as you mess with that stuff, I'd rather not have some kind of a Jurassic Park/12 Monkeys/Planet of the Apes situation.

    So I would like this kind of research eventually isolated to an island or something that can be easily quarantined or (if necessary) glassed.

    The ideal would be to make it go hand in hand with the colonization of Mars so that a new human species or whatever they want to call themselves arises on another planet.

    Peace.

    Your outcome is negative for infants with genetic diseases.

    • Replies: @Talha
    I’ve got no problems (in general) with research in trying to cure diseases (very reliable Hanafi scholars had already outlined the circumstances under which stem cell research could be done if certain conditions were fulfilled a while ago). There is a difference between curing disease (correcting dysfunction) and enhancements/upgrades to wet ware. Where the boundary lies...I have no clue, but scholars will debate and figure out the rulings (likely differing on certain details).

    Of interest to the subject:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xOWrrRpQVco

    Peace.
  96. @Talha

    Christian hierarchs need to recall that they need to give unto God, God’s, and unto Caesar, Caesar’s.
     
    This is very interesting because it is often the cry of the Liberal-Left in marginalizing the religious voice or sentiment in society. Caesar, of course, was a pagan ruler who was outside the sphere of influence. The nascent Christian community had neither the means to challenge or seriously influence Caesar. Caesar did what he willed and the subjects dealt with circumstances as best they could.

    Now - while we have taken on democratic forms (almost universally in the West) - we, ourselves are Caesar-collective. Caesar is us and we are Caesar.

    The underlying assumption here is that - God must listen to our dictates or step aside. It is interesting how pervasive the Enlightenment-era concepts are. Both sides of the opposition are mired to the same discourse...both want God and His institutions "remolded in our own image."

    Perhaps it's simply not something that can be escaped (in the long run) in religions where God incarnates into an avatar of one form or another...I don't know.

    Peace.

    It is interesting how pervasive the Enlightenment-era concepts are.

    It has nothing to do with the Enlightenment, there’s a long history of conflict between the papacy and secular powers, going back at least to the 1070s when pope Gregory VII and the German king (later Roman emperor) Henry IV tried to depose each other. The reference to “give unto Caesar” was a common tactic for kings and other secular powers to argue against papal encroachments (which around 1200 basically took the form of pretensions to a universal papal monarchy with the right of demanding complete obedience from the kings of Christendom, kind of like a Christian caliph). Arguments about the proper relationship between the church and secular rulers have been a prominent feature of at least Western Christendom for a very long time (I don’t know enough about the Orthodox world, maybe Karlin or some Russian commenter can comment).
    It’s kind of telling that you’re apparently unable to understand this, yet more proof how different and alien Islam is.

    • Replies: @Talha
    You completely missed my point.

    You think I’m not aware of the conflict between secular rulers and religious authorities? All four of the founders of the surviving Sunni schools of law were either jailed, tortured or exiled (or a combination of the three) by the ruling caliphal authorities.

    Peace.

    , @LondonBob
    Give unto Caesar of course means give nothing, something that would have been clear to Jesus's audience who knew everything belonged to God. It was a trick question by the Pharisees (Rabbis), hoping to get Jesus to explicitly denounce the Roman authorities and get arrested. Very clever answer.
  97. Back in my good graces (not that he cares):

    https://dailystormer.name/queen-ann-calls-out-nonsensical-jewsmedia-talking-point-that-only-brown-people-understand-rape-victims/

    And with that, I am sold on Ann being Tucker’s running mate in 2024.

  98. @Hyperborean

    If religious prevalence and rates of heroin are able to substitute for each other, then empirical support for Marx’s connection (“Religion is opium of the people”).
     
    Too literal. Opiates were used to sedate people in pain at the time, so Marx's meaning was more similar to 'religion helps people ignore the pains of oppressive society through the creation of a veil of pleasure and illusion'.

    This was a precursor to the ideas of False Consciousness which were developed by Marxist theorists as a synthesis of the idea that 'Communism is inevitable as the proletariat wakes up and throws off its shakles' and the antithesis that in reality many commoners didn't agitate in favour of Communism.

    Sure, Marx more sophisticated for my comment.

    But it is nonetheless, such a simplistic connection between these narcotics. Administration of unbelievable dogmas of organized religion, and of opiates.

    Jung’s project for curing addiction to drugs – would be as indication of need for some kind of spiritual quest. But fairly, his concept of “analysis” for his patients, at least is not such simple religious indoctrination or faith in various unbelievable dogmas.

  99. @Anatoly Karlin
    My two cents on the Catholicism vs. Protestantism debate here...

    1. All these discussions are massively confounded by two factors:

    a) The sort of peoples who went for Protestantism five centuries ago are also the sort of people who may be more prone to #RefugeesWelcome in the first place.

    b) The Protestant countries have generally been economically developed for a longer time period - itself an outgrowth of both their own national qualities, as well as Protestantism's independent positive effects on increased literacy in prior centuries, which constituted the original source of their economic lead - and thus have had a longer time to build up a larger pool of refugees. Recall that much of Catholic Europe (bar France) only really "converged" with Core Europe after the 1970s... and not fully either.

    Swedish insanity would not be an issue if it had the wages and social welfare of Romania... or even Portugal.

    These issues are so central that I see little point in heated arguments about this issue.

    2. The solution, at least, is rather obvious. Christian hierarchs need to recall that they need to give unto God, God's, and unto Caesar, Caesar's.

    If the Antipope who currently squats in the Vatican insists on dictating runaway leftism on his global flock, then he needs to be given the boot. Polish Perspective's idea about leaving the Roman fold and essentially remodeling Polish Catholicism into a national church is one that makes a lot of sense to me. It's what Henry VIII did, after all, and for far baser reasons.

    The situation with Protestantism is actually tricker, since there is no central authority that can be rejected and remolded in our own image. But it's not all bad. It also means that no Protestant pastor has the influence of a Pope, which allows people to flow to congregations closer to their own values. So there, the cultural struggle takes place at the social level, with religion entirely downstream of it.

    The “starting your own church” part is only really true in America. The state churches of northern Europe are very centralized. Every priest goes through state university training and even theology is now extremely pozzed. In a couple of decades they went from not admitting females to the majority of new priests being female.

    Starting your own church is about as realistic as starting your own Facebook. You can’t use the church buildings, you no longer get to bury people in local graveyards and so on. In a smaller town the church probably owns a lot of family stuff like camping grounds, playgrounds and such so if you start your own church your kids can’t join the boy scouts, they’ll be shut out of some daycares and so on. The church is an effective monopoly over a lot of important stuff.

    I grew up in a small town and I went to school with some kids from really religious families who had left the Lutheran church for being too pozzed and they were pretty damn isolated from the rest of us. The Lutheran church is all about “tolerance” and “inclusion” when it comes to Muslims but it’s not even remotely “tolerant” or “inclusive” with traditionalist Christian movements.

    At this point I’m an accelerationist, let them give us transsexual priests, Muslims welcome parties and the like until everyone agrees that we should dismantle the Lutheran church and nationalize its properties like the commies always wanted. Though the leftists might flip on this if they realize that the church now belongs to them…

    • Replies: @German_reader

    The state churches of northern Europe are very centralized.
     
    In Germany there are now quite a few evangelical churches unaffiliated with the mainline Protestants (who are pretty much moribund, if still powerful, and merely the spiritual arm of the Green party).
  100. @AP

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Italy or Protestant Germany, Sweden, etc.?

    Which country is more friendly to migrants, Catholic Spain with its regular amnesties, or Protestant Denmark?
     
    Which one has higher percentage Muslims in 2050, Denmark or Spain:

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/map-europe-future-muslim-demographics.png

    Indeed, with the exception of France and Austria it is the Protestant countries that have allowed themselves to be taken over the most. Coincidence?

    You are an ingrate. If not for Poles, Ukrainians, Italians etc. in Canada, that country's Protestants, in addition to being further outnumbered, would have done to themselves what Protestants everywhere, such as England itself, have done to themselves. That's just what Protestants do. Look at England.

    Which American region is more friendly to migrants, Catholic leftist NY/New England or the conservative Protestant South?
     
    New England is the whitest region in the USA:

    States with the highest percentages of non-Hispanic Whites, as of 2007:[55]

    Vermont 95.4%
    Maine 94.8%
    West Virginia 93.7%
    New Hampshire 93.4%
    Iowa 90.9%
    North Dakota 90.2%
    Montana 88.3%
    Kentucky 88.1%
    Wyoming 87.7%
    South Dakota 86.5%

    Boston is the only major American city where most kids are born to white parents.

    Lots of Mexicans moving to Georgia, NC and the Protestant southern states and Midwestern Great Plains.

    Polish Catholics have joined the Jewish, Muslim coalition in the UK
     
    Remove Polish Catholics and the European % of the population of England shrinks further. Polish Catholics in England also reproduce at a higher rate than do English Protestants, no?

    Have you explored Spain? I’ve traveled across the country two years ago.

    Spain is full of Latin American (people like Mexican, Colombian, Bolivian, etc) immigrants and their children, which mainly have Spanish citizenship. This is by far the largest immigrant group. Latin American people are a huge group there, even in provincial areas.

    There are far more Catholic than Muslim immigrants to Spain (like in the USA). Although you hear quite a lot of Arab guys (hear more than see, because the guys visually similar to Spanish people) around Spain, as their Arabic conversations in the air.

    • Replies: @AP
    Never been to Spain, only Mexico (Tijuana), in the late 90s. Middle-class "nice" areas of Tijuana reminded me of eastern Europe. I was never in Hungary, but it might have been similar. There were even "gypsies" - lots of little kids at 2 AM trying to sell chiclets to people. They didn't pick pockets though. There was an incredible nightclub there, Baby Rock, which closed long ago.

    I'll probably visit Argentina, where some cousins moved from Ukraine, before I do Spain.
    , @DFH
    I know a lot of Spaniards and they don't look like Arabs
    , @LondonBob
    With their new leftist government I expect the African population to start shooting up for Spain, in addition to their Mestizo population. I was surprised to see the beginnings of a subcontinent population last time I was in Barcelona. Doesn't matter if they are followers of Catholicism, Islam, animist, voodoo or Hindu, effect is the same.
  101. @Jaakko Raipala
    The "starting your own church" part is only really true in America. The state churches of northern Europe are very centralized. Every priest goes through state university training and even theology is now extremely pozzed. In a couple of decades they went from not admitting females to the majority of new priests being female.

    Starting your own church is about as realistic as starting your own Facebook. You can't use the church buildings, you no longer get to bury people in local graveyards and so on. In a smaller town the church probably owns a lot of family stuff like camping grounds, playgrounds and such so if you start your own church your kids can't join the boy scouts, they'll be shut out of some daycares and so on. The church is an effective monopoly over a lot of important stuff.

    I grew up in a small town and I went to school with some kids from really religious families who had left the Lutheran church for being too pozzed and they were pretty damn isolated from the rest of us. The Lutheran church is all about "tolerance" and "inclusion" when it comes to Muslims but it's not even remotely "tolerant" or "inclusive" with traditionalist Christian movements.

    At this point I'm an accelerationist, let them give us transsexual priests, Muslims welcome parties and the like until everyone agrees that we should dismantle the Lutheran church and nationalize its properties like the commies always wanted. Though the leftists might flip on this if they realize that the church now belongs to them...

    The state churches of northern Europe are very centralized.

    In Germany there are now quite a few evangelical churches unaffiliated with the mainline Protestants (who are pretty much moribund, if still powerful, and merely the spiritual arm of the Green party).

  102. @Anonymous
    A country does not just export its culture like it is oil or something.

    What about Russian culture makes it so compelling that other countries would want to be influenced by it and consume it?

    I understand your point, but I don't see how that is going to happen.

    Right now, not much, but what stops it from making good movies, music, and its own brand of SWPL culture mixed with conservatism/nationalism that’s exportable?

    Keep in mind that Sovokism was exported worldwide to varying degrees of success.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Never heard of Sovokism.

    It is true that it is theoretically possible for Russia to export its culture, but that is true for any country.

    What sticks out about Russia that makes its culture unique?

    That I can tell, Russia is not really known for anything positive in the west besides caviar and vodka. These are luxurious items but not much to work with here.

    There are very famous Russian writers who put out good work, but I don't think that is enough.
  103. Unz review needs to be a bit careful, neoliberalism.txt has cloudfare in its crosshairs:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/30/we-cant-stop-spread-of-hate-get-tough-with-technology-giants-jo-cox

    Comments disabled of course.

  104. @Daniel Chieh
    AK - what are your thoughts on Linux getting pwned, in Moldbug's words?

    It’s a self-own if anything. Linus Torvalds is one of the militant leftists who somehow thought that the leftism would never get to him. I think a lot of people mistook him as some sort of a shitlord because he was a big rude NIMBY who wanted to run *his* project *his* way and got into arguments with SJWs but he was never against them in principle, just for his project.

    Mr Torvalds used to be a very active poster on Finnish USENET in the 1990s and he was one of the militant atheist skeptic people, the generation of aggressive leftists that came before the current generation of SJW trannies and PoC-allies. I think he tried to hide it in English for a while after he got feedback that making fun of Jesus at every opportunity could be bad for career prospects in America but this whole extremely leftish ethos of the “free software” stuff should have been a clue that the man was raised as a communist.

    His father is a MEP and one of the worst people in this country…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Torvalds

    …one of the “former communist” journalists who have switched sides from pro-Sovietism to NATO, EU and “diversity”. Linus rarely comments on our politics these days but when he does he is in agreement with his “former communist” father and the rest of his “former communist” family. If the SJWs destroy Linux with “diversity” it is just desserts for Linus.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    More evidence both for high-iq and wildly self-destructive nature of leftism.
    , @S3
    And furthermore I will give you my professional opinion: The best kernel in the world was Jeff Bonwick's Solaris. (Bonwick is one of our people, by the way) You can feel the resentment that Torvalds had for him in this comment:

    http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2007/11/11/on-dreaming-in-code/#comment-215
    http://dtrace.org/blogs/bmc/2007/11/11/on-dreaming-in-code/#comment-216

    The sad thing is that Solaris's successor Illumos is now being run by Bonwick's protege Bryan Cantrill, who (you guessed it) is one of their guys.
  105. @German_reader

    It is interesting how pervasive the Enlightenment-era concepts are.
     
    It has nothing to do with the Enlightenment, there's a long history of conflict between the papacy and secular powers, going back at least to the 1070s when pope Gregory VII and the German king (later Roman emperor) Henry IV tried to depose each other. The reference to "give unto Caesar" was a common tactic for kings and other secular powers to argue against papal encroachments (which around 1200 basically took the form of pretensions to a universal papal monarchy with the right of demanding complete obedience from the kings of Christendom, kind of like a Christian caliph). Arguments about the proper relationship between the church and secular rulers have been a prominent feature of at least Western Christendom for a very long time (I don't know enough about the Orthodox world, maybe Karlin or some Russian commenter can comment).
    It's kind of telling that you're apparently unable to understand this, yet more proof how different and alien Islam is.

    You completely missed my point.

    You think I’m not aware of the conflict between secular rulers and religious authorities? All four of the founders of the surviving Sunni schools of law were either jailed, tortured or exiled (or a combination of the three) by the ruling caliphal authorities.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I didn't, but then I honestly don't care about your sanctimonious Islamic propaganda nonsense that you insist on forcing on us at every opportunity.
  106. @Talha
    You completely missed my point.

    You think I’m not aware of the conflict between secular rulers and religious authorities? All four of the founders of the surviving Sunni schools of law were either jailed, tortured or exiled (or a combination of the three) by the ruling caliphal authorities.

    Peace.

    I didn’t, but then I honestly don’t care about your sanctimonious Islamic propaganda nonsense that you insist on forcing on us at every opportunity.

    • Replies: @utu
    Your Islamophobia, the only phobia that you allow yourself to harbor, might be a manifestation of your repressed Anti-Semitism.
    , @Talha
    You did completely - to assume the current Western paradigm is the same as the time of kings and emperors is folly.

    You are trying to negotiate a position for the Church that suits your interests, which makes sense. It is a powerful tool for formation of societies, best to have it on one’s side. Followers of the Church must decide whether they will want to take input from from people outside their own tradition due solely to your ancillary relationship as a German or a White person or whatever.

    I know if a bunch of ex-Muslims tried to tell us how best to restructure our religious institutions in order to better accommodate their interests, we’d ignore them.

    I get you don’t like my input; why would you? I would suggest either ignoring me or asking Mr. Karlin to ask me to leave.

    Peace
    , @iffen
    You are off target with your criticism of Talha.
  107. @AquariusAnon
    My main complaint about Russia is that all coverage of Russia all over the world lies in its government and geopolitics, and the little tourism industry that exists in Russia is largely geared towards its geopolitical past and present too. RT is a failure in that regard; instead of just covering geopolitics and western domestic politics from an old school leftist angle, it should start promoting Russia as a conservative SWPL stronghold, which means covering not just world news but also news in finance, arts, culture, and entertainment.

    The rest of the world understands and sees far too little of Russian civil society. For Russia to really get past Sovokism, it should let the world understand and appreciate its civil society. Japan is a great example of how relations with its historical enemy, China, rapidly improved after letting China learn about its civil society. By now, a critical mass of Chinese have become fans, which greatly simplifies the current China-initiated thawing of relations.

    Russia should do the same all over the world, but with special focus on the West; by the West, I mean Western Europe; promoting Russian culture and civil society would be an uphill battle in the Anglosphere. Ditto for East and Southeast Asia. However, promote Russia in a negative light in the Arab World, India, and Latin America as we don't need men from these regions travel in the millions to Russia (Turkish sex tourists in Kiev anyone?)

    Streets and place names should be continued to be renamed imo. All districts, cities, and towns should revert to their original names or renamed into Tsarist era names. Communist streets should be renamed into Tsarist streets. Kremlin stars removed for the Imperial Eagle.

    My main complaint about Russia is that all coverage of Russia all over the world lies in its government and geopolitics, and the little tourism industry that exists in Russia is largely geared towards its geopolitical past and present too. RT is a failure in that regard; instead of just covering geopolitics and western domestic politics from an old school leftist angle, it should start promoting Russia as a conservative SWPL stronghold, which means covering not just world news but also news in finance, arts, culture, and entertainment.

    I liked the whole post, but this is the key part.

    I would add only that such a change of course would also build great soft power. I believe it was Dmitry who wrote, half a year or so ago, that to study a foreign language is to fall in love with its culture. I very much agree with this and think the idea can be generalized to culture: the more you dip your toes into a foreign culture, the more it becomes part of you, and the more protective you get about it. This is soft power. (Psychologically, we may think of it as a general case of the familiarity effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect)

  108. @Daniel Chieh
    Your outcome is negative for infants with genetic diseases.

    https://youtu.be/Kq5KWLqUewc

    I’ve got no problems (in general) with research in trying to cure diseases (very reliable Hanafi scholars had already outlined the circumstances under which stem cell research could be done if certain conditions were fulfilled a while ago). There is a difference between curing disease (correcting dysfunction) and enhancements/upgrades to wet ware. Where the boundary lies…I have no clue, but scholars will debate and figure out the rulings (likely differing on certain details).

    Of interest to the subject:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I care, I really do.
  109. @German_reader
    I didn't, but then I honestly don't care about your sanctimonious Islamic propaganda nonsense that you insist on forcing on us at every opportunity.

    Your Islamophobia, the only phobia that you allow yourself to harbor, might be a manifestation of your repressed Anti-Semitism.

    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    Your Islamophobia, the only phobia that you allow yourself to harbor, might be a manifestation of your repressed Anti-Semitism.
     
    Yes, that certainly sounds right. I know that a couple of months ago, our "German_reader" friend reacted with utter horror to a somewhat more balanced history of World War II, so that his deep internal unhappiness probably manifests itself as hostility toward Muslims, who are obviously the ones responsible for inflicting so much death and misery upon the German people over the last 100 years.

    A very similar situation, though sometimes with different targets, is found among American "cuckservatives"...
  110. * Diversity Macht Frei: More “British Jews” in the IDF Than British Armed Forces.

    Obviously this isn’t great, however there is a discrepancy in the way the two statistics are collected.

    The IDF Brits are Jews simply if they’re in the IDF, so all are counted even if not actually Jewish.

    Meanwhile, the British Army Jews need to self-report. Something I, for example, were I ever in that situation, would never do. The latter point is significant.

    Also, the women are a lot more numerous and a lot more attractive (on average) in the Israeli Army than the British. (Thanks, no doubt, to conscription rather than high T self-selection.)

    And as a Brit over there Israeli ladies will treat you like an exotic delicacy, which must be very exciting for the Nebbish North London Jewish stereotype.

    Finally, the British Army has been starved of funding since the financial crash, shrinking and mission-less since the end of formal combat operations in Afghanistan. Morale is rockbottom and even small perks, like historical barracks in cool, fun neighbourhoods, have been sold off and replaced with super garrisons in boring, (attractive) women free remote locations. This is not what young men want.

    Actually, one more: the progressives have been ruining it for a while and the marketing material shows it. An eighth of the core annual syllabus was devoted to diversity and it has surely got worse.

    Basically, sex, sun and a sense of purpose with an allied nation or the poz, rain and anomie at home.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Difference will be, that IDF is a conscripting everyone army, including for immigrants. Any under person 22 (with Jewish descent to the third generation), who is eligible to live in Israel, and is not religious (in Judaism), or a married woman, will be conscripted, on immigration to Israel.

    So the data is just measuring what proportion of young (under 22) people of Jewish descent in the UK, have repatriated to Israel. In this case, presumably figures of immigration to Israel, is higher than people joining as a career, the professional British military (the latter probably unpopular career choice).

    In addition, Israel will give all these people (immigrants to Israel) free university degrees (i.e. going to university without paying tuition fees) - while in the UK, people have to pay money for university studies. Many will likely return to UK after studies,

    , @German_reader

    Basically, sex, sun and a sense of purpose with an allied nation
     
    I'm unaware there's any treaty of alliance between Israel and the UK (even if there's certainly a lot of cooperation in military and security matters).
    Sorry, but your rationalizations are really lame. Jews whose Jewish identity is so strong they want to serve in the IDF, should permanently move to Israel and give up their British citizenship. Anything else should bring fully deserved charges of dual loyalty.
  111. @German_reader
    I didn't, but then I honestly don't care about your sanctimonious Islamic propaganda nonsense that you insist on forcing on us at every opportunity.

    You did completely – to assume the current Western paradigm is the same as the time of kings and emperors is folly.

    You are trying to negotiate a position for the Church that suits your interests, which makes sense. It is a powerful tool for formation of societies, best to have it on one’s side. Followers of the Church must decide whether they will want to take input from from people outside their own tradition due solely to your ancillary relationship as a German or a White person or whatever.

    I know if a bunch of ex-Muslims tried to tell us how best to restructure our religious institutions in order to better accommodate their interests, we’d ignore them.

    I get you don’t like my input; why would you? I would suggest either ignoring me or asking Mr. Karlin to ask me to leave.

    Peace

    • Replies: @German_reader

    to assume the current Western paradigm is the same as the time of kings and emperors is folly
     
    I didn't write that - it's YOU who missed the point completely. When Karlin mentioned "render unto Caesar" you launched into your usual tirades about the evils of the contemporary west, horrible Enlightenment etc. But whatever one may think about the Enlightenment, the question of the proper relationship between the church and the world has nothing to do with it, because it goes right back to the origins of Christendom and led to severe conflicts between popes and worldly powers centuries before the Enlightenment. But it's telling you don't understand that, because such a separation between the two spheres has of course never existed in Islam, and since you're mentally stuck in your Islamic ghetto where nothing but the pronouncements of your religious "scholars" matters, you've obviously never bothered to try to come to any understanding of Western history, in either its Christian or its secular form.
    And yes, I do indeed find your comments here highly annoying, since your constant promotion of your religion, with its thinly veiled contempt for everyone else, gets on my nerves. I tend to scroll over your comments, but since there are so damn many of them, I can't always resist the temptation to react to them, even if it's obviously a waste of time.
  112. @Tyrion 2

    * Diversity Macht Frei: More “British Jews” in the IDF Than British Armed Forces.
     
    Obviously this isn't great, however there is a discrepancy in the way the two statistics are collected.

    The IDF Brits are Jews simply if they're in the IDF, so all are counted even if not actually Jewish.

    Meanwhile, the British Army Jews need to self-report. Something I, for example, were I ever in that situation, would never do. The latter point is significant.

    Also, the women are a lot more numerous and a lot more attractive (on average) in the Israeli Army than the British. (Thanks, no doubt, to conscription rather than high T self-selection.)

    And as a Brit over there Israeli ladies will treat you like an exotic delicacy, which must be very exciting for the Nebbish North London Jewish stereotype.

    Finally, the British Army has been starved of funding since the financial crash, shrinking and mission-less since the end of formal combat operations in Afghanistan. Morale is rockbottom and even small perks, like historical barracks in cool, fun neighbourhoods, have been sold off and replaced with super garrisons in boring, (attractive) women free remote locations. This is not what young men want.

    Actually, one more: the progressives have been ruining it for a while and the marketing material shows it. An eighth of the core annual syllabus was devoted to diversity and it has surely got worse.

    Basically, sex, sun and a sense of purpose with an allied nation or the poz, rain and anomie at home.

    Difference will be, that IDF is a conscripting everyone army, including for immigrants. Any under person 22 (with Jewish descent to the third generation), who is eligible to live in Israel, and is not religious (in Judaism), or a married woman, will be conscripted, on immigration to Israel.

    So the data is just measuring what proportion of young (under 22) people of Jewish descent in the UK, have repatriated to Israel. In this case, presumably figures of immigration to Israel, is higher than people joining as a career, the professional British military (the latter probably unpopular career choice).

    In addition, Israel will give all these people (immigrants to Israel) free university degrees (i.e. going to university without paying tuition fees) – while in the UK, people have to pay money for university studies. Many will likely return to UK after studies,

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @LondonBob
    A friend of a friend went to Israel ten years ago and was questioned at the border control about not having done national service, he hasn't been back since.
  113. @Talha
    I’ve got no problems (in general) with research in trying to cure diseases (very reliable Hanafi scholars had already outlined the circumstances under which stem cell research could be done if certain conditions were fulfilled a while ago). There is a difference between curing disease (correcting dysfunction) and enhancements/upgrades to wet ware. Where the boundary lies...I have no clue, but scholars will debate and figure out the rulings (likely differing on certain details).

    Of interest to the subject:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xOWrrRpQVco

    Peace.

    I care, I really do.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Oh I completely assume you don’t care - I don’t expect non-Muslims to stop due to any scruples we have. I think the bifurcation of mankind into humans and humans+ is a very real scenario. At that point, the only concern will be how to interact with them; marriage, etc.

    Peace.
  114. @Dmitry
    Have you explored Spain? I've traveled across the country two years ago.

    Spain is full of Latin American (people like Mexican, Colombian, Bolivian, etc) immigrants and their children, which mainly have Spanish citizenship. This is by far the largest immigrant group. Latin American people are a huge group there, even in provincial areas.

    There are far more Catholic than Muslim immigrants to Spain (like in the USA). Although you hear quite a lot of Arab guys (hear more than see, because the guys visually similar to Spanish people) around Spain, as their Arabic conversations in the air.

    Never been to Spain, only Mexico (Tijuana), in the late 90s. Middle-class “nice” areas of Tijuana reminded me of eastern Europe. I was never in Hungary, but it might have been similar. There were even “gypsies” – lots of little kids at 2 AM trying to sell chiclets to people. They didn’t pick pockets though. There was an incredible nightclub there, Baby Rock, which closed long ago.

    I’ll probably visit Argentina, where some cousins moved from Ukraine, before I do Spain.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Lol, I went to Tijuana for an afternoon last year - a little scary. But if it's representative of Mexico, it's a lot more similar to America.

    Anyway, in relevance to the topic. Spain combines a very safe and liberal atmosphere - people smoking openly cannabis everywhere, brothels on many streets, and casinos in centers of larger cities.

    German Reader is correct about the church's attitude in Spain. Inside the churches, signs about donating to help refugees - I was there all summer 2016. This seems the cause they were interested in at least that year (2016). I think they also were also giving food to refugees in a lot of towns.

    More interesting for us, was how Spain manage to achieve such cheap prices of beer and coffee, compared to the rest of Western Europe. There was even Russian man who was selling Russian beers from this kind of shed in the center of one town in Basque Country. This guy sell us 5 large cans of different Russian beer for 3 euros (crazy how he was making a profit).

  115. @Daniel Chieh
    I care, I really do.

    Oh I completely assume you don’t care – I don’t expect non-Muslims to stop due to any scruples we have. I think the bifurcation of mankind into humans and humans+ is a very real scenario. At that point, the only concern will be how to interact with them; marriage, etc.

    Peace.

  116. @German_reader

    However Catholicism can be easily adapted to ethno-nationalism
     
    How so, when the pope is an open borders fanatic (and an enabler of pederast networks)? The Catholic church is a very hierarchical organization, with limited influence for laymen. If the hierarchy says any form of nationalism is incompatible with Christianity (even a kind of nationalism that merely seeks to restrict immigration, respects the rights of existing minorities and doesn't have any explicit "racial doctrine"), how can ordinary Catholics disagree?

    Catholic hierarchy in the Czech Republic is quite strongly against immigration. It is probably opportunistic position, they have no strength to go against the population.

  117. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @AquariusAnon
    Right now, not much, but what stops it from making good movies, music, and its own brand of SWPL culture mixed with conservatism/nationalism that's exportable?

    Keep in mind that Sovokism was exported worldwide to varying degrees of success.

    Never heard of Sovokism.

    It is true that it is theoretically possible for Russia to export its culture, but that is true for any country.

    What sticks out about Russia that makes its culture unique?

    That I can tell, Russia is not really known for anything positive in the west besides caviar and vodka. These are luxurious items but not much to work with here.

    There are very famous Russian writers who put out good work, but I don’t think that is enough.

    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
    Sovokism is just Communism, or more like the culture and lifestyle that Soviet Communism brought about.

    Well, do the same as what the Soviets have done: Music and movies to start with. Russia still produces some very good music (especially in hip hop and deep house) and movies. They can start with that; South Korea is a good template to follow in terms of how to build an entire exportable entertainment industry from scratch, except Russians already have a robust entertainment industry for domestic consumption; that can easily be turned into a massive exportable industry.

    Food: I can see Western SWPLs pick up on stuff like borscht, blini, and beef stroganoff. SWPLize these foods and mass export them to the West (and the East)

    Russian ballet is already famous worldwide. Instead of promoting just the military, Russia can promote that too for civilian consumption. This includes other high culture such as classical music and artists for bourgeois consumption (who are still very important to win the hearts and minds of, as they wield outsized power)

    Literature: Authors like Tolstoy and Chekhov should have quite a few fans among bourgeois Europeans, at least not any less than other authors from the same era like Jane Austen which is known worldwide.

    I believe Russia has quite a few decent high end fashion designers. Their stuff should be promoted worldwide.

    VK, Yandex, and Telegram can definitely be improved and refined to go head-to-head against the Silicon Valley giants.

    Once the cultural and environmental basis for a Russophile fanbase in Europe has been created, especially among bourgeois, expect not only large scale easing of sanctions, but also attract Western expertise to build homegrown heavy industry and high-fashion icons.
  118. @AP
    Never been to Spain, only Mexico (Tijuana), in the late 90s. Middle-class "nice" areas of Tijuana reminded me of eastern Europe. I was never in Hungary, but it might have been similar. There were even "gypsies" - lots of little kids at 2 AM trying to sell chiclets to people. They didn't pick pockets though. There was an incredible nightclub there, Baby Rock, which closed long ago.

    I'll probably visit Argentina, where some cousins moved from Ukraine, before I do Spain.

    Lol, I went to Tijuana for an afternoon last year – a little scary. But if it’s representative of Mexico, it’s a lot more similar to America.

    Anyway, in relevance to the topic. Spain combines a very safe and liberal atmosphere – people smoking openly cannabis everywhere, brothels on many streets, and casinos in centers of larger cities.

    German Reader is correct about the church’s attitude in Spain. Inside the churches, signs about donating to help refugees – I was there all summer 2016. This seems the cause they were interested in at least that year (2016). I think they also were also giving food to refugees in a lot of towns.

    More interesting for us, was how Spain manage to achieve such cheap prices of beer and coffee, compared to the rest of Western Europe. There was even Russian man who was selling Russian beers from this kind of shed in the center of one town in Basque Country. This guy sell us 5 large cans of different Russian beer for 3 euros (crazy how he was making a profit).

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    There was even Russian man who was selling Russian beers from this kind of shed in the center of one town in Basque Country.
     
    This man is in the center of the old town of Vitoria-Gasteiz, if anyone wants to visit him - I hope he is still there.
    , @iffen
    Spain combines a very safe and liberal atmosphere – people smoking openly cannabis everywhere, brothels on many streets, and casinos in centers of larger cities.

    Fuck the Garden of Eden.
  119. @Talha
    You did completely - to assume the current Western paradigm is the same as the time of kings and emperors is folly.

    You are trying to negotiate a position for the Church that suits your interests, which makes sense. It is a powerful tool for formation of societies, best to have it on one’s side. Followers of the Church must decide whether they will want to take input from from people outside their own tradition due solely to your ancillary relationship as a German or a White person or whatever.

    I know if a bunch of ex-Muslims tried to tell us how best to restructure our religious institutions in order to better accommodate their interests, we’d ignore them.

    I get you don’t like my input; why would you? I would suggest either ignoring me or asking Mr. Karlin to ask me to leave.

    Peace

    to assume the current Western paradigm is the same as the time of kings and emperors is folly

    I didn’t write that – it’s YOU who missed the point completely. When Karlin mentioned “render unto Caesar” you launched into your usual tirades about the evils of the contemporary west, horrible Enlightenment etc. But whatever one may think about the Enlightenment, the question of the proper relationship between the church and the world has nothing to do with it, because it goes right back to the origins of Christendom and led to severe conflicts between popes and worldly powers centuries before the Enlightenment. But it’s telling you don’t understand that, because such a separation between the two spheres has of course never existed in Islam, and since you’re mentally stuck in your Islamic ghetto where nothing but the pronouncements of your religious “scholars” matters, you’ve obviously never bothered to try to come to any understanding of Western history, in either its Christian or its secular form.
    And yes, I do indeed find your comments here highly annoying, since your constant promotion of your religion, with its thinly veiled contempt for everyone else, gets on my nerves. I tend to scroll over your comments, but since there are so damn many of them, I can’t always resist the temptation to react to them, even if it’s obviously a waste of time.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    your usual tirades about the evils of the contemporary west, horrible Enlightenment
     
    It makes me more appreciate the contemporary West, when I read stuff like this.
    , @Talha
    Wow - let's spin into a bunch of ad hominem shall we...

    I completely understand the conflict between the Church and secular powers in European history. In a democracy (which is a fairly recent precedent in its current form), you and people like Mr. Karlin are the potential secular powers - or as far as your voice in the process allows.

    Basically what I'm hearing from the secular side - to them - is; here, you guys should really change this, this and that - dismantle this and that - so that our vision of society has a better chance of coming into fruition.

    However if the followers of the Church attempt to form and influence their society around their own principles and priorities and vision, they are met with "render unto Caesar (us), keep your religion out of politics."

    Which is why I am so glad our ulema have understood the one-direction game that modernity is playing and held the line.

    I don't know what is best for the Catholic Church to do, not my religion - it is their internal debate to hash out. However, I'd like to point out to them that perhaps they should be considering how long they have been listening to voices outside their tradition and where it has brought them.

    I do indeed find your comments here highly annoying
     
    And I'm fairly certain the CEO of Budweiser is likely praying to whatever gods he believes in hoping we Muslims just go away...so get in line.

    I can’t always resist the temptation to react to them, even if it’s obviously a waste of time.
     
    I suggest pressing "IGNORE COMMENTER" so you are not tempted. It's like if you want to lose weight, it's best to leave the cookies on the supermarket shelf. Remember, you responded to me chief, I said nothing to you.

    Peace.
  120. @Dmitry
    Lol, I went to Tijuana for an afternoon last year - a little scary. But if it's representative of Mexico, it's a lot more similar to America.

    Anyway, in relevance to the topic. Spain combines a very safe and liberal atmosphere - people smoking openly cannabis everywhere, brothels on many streets, and casinos in centers of larger cities.

    German Reader is correct about the church's attitude in Spain. Inside the churches, signs about donating to help refugees - I was there all summer 2016. This seems the cause they were interested in at least that year (2016). I think they also were also giving food to refugees in a lot of towns.

    More interesting for us, was how Spain manage to achieve such cheap prices of beer and coffee, compared to the rest of Western Europe. There was even Russian man who was selling Russian beers from this kind of shed in the center of one town in Basque Country. This guy sell us 5 large cans of different Russian beer for 3 euros (crazy how he was making a profit).

    There was even Russian man who was selling Russian beers from this kind of shed in the center of one town in Basque Country.

    This man is in the center of the old town of Vitoria-Gasteiz, if anyone wants to visit him – I hope he is still there.

  121. @German_reader

    to assume the current Western paradigm is the same as the time of kings and emperors is folly
     
    I didn't write that - it's YOU who missed the point completely. When Karlin mentioned "render unto Caesar" you launched into your usual tirades about the evils of the contemporary west, horrible Enlightenment etc. But whatever one may think about the Enlightenment, the question of the proper relationship between the church and the world has nothing to do with it, because it goes right back to the origins of Christendom and led to severe conflicts between popes and worldly powers centuries before the Enlightenment. But it's telling you don't understand that, because such a separation between the two spheres has of course never existed in Islam, and since you're mentally stuck in your Islamic ghetto where nothing but the pronouncements of your religious "scholars" matters, you've obviously never bothered to try to come to any understanding of Western history, in either its Christian or its secular form.
    And yes, I do indeed find your comments here highly annoying, since your constant promotion of your religion, with its thinly veiled contempt for everyone else, gets on my nerves. I tend to scroll over your comments, but since there are so damn many of them, I can't always resist the temptation to react to them, even if it's obviously a waste of time.

    your usual tirades about the evils of the contemporary west, horrible Enlightenment

    It makes me more appreciate the contemporary West, when I read stuff like this.

  122. @Tyrion 2

    * Diversity Macht Frei: More “British Jews” in the IDF Than British Armed Forces.
     
    Obviously this isn't great, however there is a discrepancy in the way the two statistics are collected.

    The IDF Brits are Jews simply if they're in the IDF, so all are counted even if not actually Jewish.

    Meanwhile, the British Army Jews need to self-report. Something I, for example, were I ever in that situation, would never do. The latter point is significant.

    Also, the women are a lot more numerous and a lot more attractive (on average) in the Israeli Army than the British. (Thanks, no doubt, to conscription rather than high T self-selection.)

    And as a Brit over there Israeli ladies will treat you like an exotic delicacy, which must be very exciting for the Nebbish North London Jewish stereotype.

    Finally, the British Army has been starved of funding since the financial crash, shrinking and mission-less since the end of formal combat operations in Afghanistan. Morale is rockbottom and even small perks, like historical barracks in cool, fun neighbourhoods, have been sold off and replaced with super garrisons in boring, (attractive) women free remote locations. This is not what young men want.

    Actually, one more: the progressives have been ruining it for a while and the marketing material shows it. An eighth of the core annual syllabus was devoted to diversity and it has surely got worse.

    Basically, sex, sun and a sense of purpose with an allied nation or the poz, rain and anomie at home.

    Basically, sex, sun and a sense of purpose with an allied nation

    I’m unaware there’s any treaty of alliance between Israel and the UK (even if there’s certainly a lot of cooperation in military and security matters).
    Sorry, but your rationalizations are really lame. Jews whose Jewish identity is so strong they want to serve in the IDF, should permanently move to Israel and give up their British citizenship. Anything else should bring fully deserved charges of dual loyalty.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Comment is redundant - they are the people, who are immigrating to Israel. If you immigrate there, after several months the government will send a letter about the conscription.

    But, there's also free university for immigrants (which is not the case for British people in the UK). Cost-benefit could be even rational (army is a cost of immigration for youth, but the free university is a benefit).

    My friend was for some months in the Israeli army. But afterwards now in medical school where the tuition fee is free (whereas native Israelis have to pay thousands of dollars of tuition fee for medical school, where it is considered unreasonably expensive, for these immigrants tuition fee for medical school is paid from the state budget).

    , @Tyrion 2
    I don't really disagree*. I'm just well placed to understand both sides and personally beyond reproach in this matter. It seems my perspective may be quite rare.

    It also allowed me to vent about the many ways the British Army has been made less fun (and effective), even as the senior officers are trying to dig themselves out by doubling down on the poz.

    *There are always exceptions. I don't think Orwell should have become a citizen of Spain, for example.

    Also, by "allied", I suppose I meant "friendly". Apologies for the loose terminology.

    And perhaps even this is a stretch, given that my fashionable London municipality was flying the Palestinian flag on top of our townhall for decades even while refusing to fly our own British national flag. Something about the latter being "racist" or something...

    ...now they fly the EU flag...it was put up after the successful vote to leave the EU...smh
    , @LondonBob
    It is supposed to be an offence to serve in a foreign military, this is not applied to the IDF.
  123. @German_reader

    to assume the current Western paradigm is the same as the time of kings and emperors is folly
     
    I didn't write that - it's YOU who missed the point completely. When Karlin mentioned "render unto Caesar" you launched into your usual tirades about the evils of the contemporary west, horrible Enlightenment etc. But whatever one may think about the Enlightenment, the question of the proper relationship between the church and the world has nothing to do with it, because it goes right back to the origins of Christendom and led to severe conflicts between popes and worldly powers centuries before the Enlightenment. But it's telling you don't understand that, because such a separation between the two spheres has of course never existed in Islam, and since you're mentally stuck in your Islamic ghetto where nothing but the pronouncements of your religious "scholars" matters, you've obviously never bothered to try to come to any understanding of Western history, in either its Christian or its secular form.
    And yes, I do indeed find your comments here highly annoying, since your constant promotion of your religion, with its thinly veiled contempt for everyone else, gets on my nerves. I tend to scroll over your comments, but since there are so damn many of them, I can't always resist the temptation to react to them, even if it's obviously a waste of time.

    Wow – let’s spin into a bunch of ad hominem shall we…

    I completely understand the conflict between the Church and secular powers in European history. In a democracy (which is a fairly recent precedent in its current form), you and people like Mr. Karlin are the potential secular powers – or as far as your voice in the process allows.

    Basically what I’m hearing from the secular side – to them – is; here, you guys should really change this, this and that – dismantle this and that – so that our vision of society has a better chance of coming into fruition.

    However if the followers of the Church attempt to form and influence their society around their own principles and priorities and vision, they are met with “render unto Caesar (us), keep your religion out of politics.”

    Which is why I am so glad our ulema have understood the one-direction game that modernity is playing and held the line.

    I don’t know what is best for the Catholic Church to do, not my religion – it is their internal debate to hash out. However, I’d like to point out to them that perhaps they should be considering how long they have been listening to voices outside their tradition and where it has brought them.

    I do indeed find your comments here highly annoying

    And I’m fairly certain the CEO of Budweiser is likely praying to whatever gods he believes in hoping we Muslims just go away…so get in line.

    I can’t always resist the temptation to react to them, even if it’s obviously a waste of time.

    I suggest pressing “IGNORE COMMENTER” so you are not tempted. It’s like if you want to lose weight, it’s best to leave the cookies on the supermarket shelf. Remember, you responded to me chief, I said nothing to you.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    However, I’d like to point out to them that perhaps they should be considering how long they have been listening to voices outside their tradition and where it has brought them.
     
    Oh shut the fuck up with your sanctimonious nonsense. I'm not trying to tell Catholics what they should think about abortion, premarital sex or whatever...I'm pissed at them because the church is facilitating an invasion of my country...primarily of your damned co-religionists. But no surprise that you think this is wonderful.
    Also bizarre that a Muslim interloper like you inserts himself into intra-Western debates and then tries to lecture me about my views about the church. Typical Islamic insolence.
  124. @Talha
    Wow - let's spin into a bunch of ad hominem shall we...

    I completely understand the conflict between the Church and secular powers in European history. In a democracy (which is a fairly recent precedent in its current form), you and people like Mr. Karlin are the potential secular powers - or as far as your voice in the process allows.

    Basically what I'm hearing from the secular side - to them - is; here, you guys should really change this, this and that - dismantle this and that - so that our vision of society has a better chance of coming into fruition.

    However if the followers of the Church attempt to form and influence their society around their own principles and priorities and vision, they are met with "render unto Caesar (us), keep your religion out of politics."

    Which is why I am so glad our ulema have understood the one-direction game that modernity is playing and held the line.

    I don't know what is best for the Catholic Church to do, not my religion - it is their internal debate to hash out. However, I'd like to point out to them that perhaps they should be considering how long they have been listening to voices outside their tradition and where it has brought them.

    I do indeed find your comments here highly annoying
     
    And I'm fairly certain the CEO of Budweiser is likely praying to whatever gods he believes in hoping we Muslims just go away...so get in line.

    I can’t always resist the temptation to react to them, even if it’s obviously a waste of time.
     
    I suggest pressing "IGNORE COMMENTER" so you are not tempted. It's like if you want to lose weight, it's best to leave the cookies on the supermarket shelf. Remember, you responded to me chief, I said nothing to you.

    Peace.

    However, I’d like to point out to them that perhaps they should be considering how long they have been listening to voices outside their tradition and where it has brought them.

    Oh shut the fuck up with your sanctimonious nonsense. I’m not trying to tell Catholics what they should think about abortion, premarital sex or whatever…I’m pissed at them because the church is facilitating an invasion of my country…primarily of your damned co-religionists. But no surprise that you think this is wonderful.
    Also bizarre that a Muslim interloper like you inserts himself into intra-Western debates and then tries to lecture me about my views about the church. Typical Islamic insolence.

    • Replies: @Talha

    I’m not trying to tell Catholics what they should think
     
    Of course not, the discussion was simply about splitting the institution of its internal authority - who brought up abortion?

    I’m pissed at them because the church is facilitating an invasion of my country
     
    Of course, which goes back to my earlier point.

    But no surprise that you think this is wonderful.
     
    Nope, I’ve been on record multiple times that I have zero problems with shutting down immigration - so try again.

    intra-Western debates
     
    That’s your framing - I can frame as intra-Abrahamic...see how that works. You’re an atheist, why should they listen to you? I mean they should ignore me also if I tried to tell them that further fissuring their structures of authority are within their interests.

    I really think you should just ignore me, aneurisms are no laughing matter.

    Peace.

  125. @German_reader

    Basically, sex, sun and a sense of purpose with an allied nation
     
    I'm unaware there's any treaty of alliance between Israel and the UK (even if there's certainly a lot of cooperation in military and security matters).
    Sorry, but your rationalizations are really lame. Jews whose Jewish identity is so strong they want to serve in the IDF, should permanently move to Israel and give up their British citizenship. Anything else should bring fully deserved charges of dual loyalty.

    Comment is redundant – they are the people, who are immigrating to Israel. If you immigrate there, after several months the government will send a letter about the conscription.

    But, there’s also free university for immigrants (which is not the case for British people in the UK). Cost-benefit could be even rational (army is a cost of immigration for youth, but the free university is a benefit).

    My friend was for some months in the Israeli army. But afterwards now in medical school where the tuition fee is free (whereas native Israelis have to pay thousands of dollars of tuition fee for medical school, where it is considered unreasonably expensive, for these immigrants tuition fee for medical school is paid from the state budget).

  126. @German_reader

    Basically, sex, sun and a sense of purpose with an allied nation
     
    I'm unaware there's any treaty of alliance between Israel and the UK (even if there's certainly a lot of cooperation in military and security matters).
    Sorry, but your rationalizations are really lame. Jews whose Jewish identity is so strong they want to serve in the IDF, should permanently move to Israel and give up their British citizenship. Anything else should bring fully deserved charges of dual loyalty.

    I don’t really disagree*. I’m just well placed to understand both sides and personally beyond reproach in this matter. It seems my perspective may be quite rare.

    It also allowed me to vent about the many ways the British Army has been made less fun (and effective), even as the senior officers are trying to dig themselves out by doubling down on the poz.

    *There are always exceptions. I don’t think Orwell should have become a citizen of Spain, for example.

    Also, by “allied”, I suppose I meant “friendly”. Apologies for the loose terminology.

    And perhaps even this is a stretch, given that my fashionable London municipality was flying the Palestinian flag on top of our townhall for decades even while refusing to fly our own British national flag. Something about the latter being “racist” or something…

    …now they fly the EU flag…it was put up after the successful vote to leave the EU…smh

    • Replies: @German_reader

    I don’t think Orwell should have become a citizen of Spain, for example.
     
    I don't really have a positive view of the leftist volunteers in Spain tbh, even if one has of course to acknowledge that partly their actions were a reaction to the interventions by Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. It's dubious how they are uncritically revered as heroes by many in Britain. The republican side in Spain committed many atrocities itself and wasn't the side of pure good.
    But anyway, I don't really blame Jews who want to serve in the IDF, and for now of course there isn't a really serious contradiction between that and citizenship in a Western country. But such dual loyalties inevitably raise the question of how one would choose in the event of a serious conflict (e.g. what if Israel ever gets completely dominated by the hardcore national religious?). So I don't think such behavior should be beyond criticism, even if alt-rightish people get unduly fixated on it due to their own obsessions.
    , @DFH
    Take your Jewish apologetics somewhere else. Every sentence just proves you're not really British.
    , @Dmitry
    Neither of you understand the process - these are people immigrating (repatriating) to Israel, this is how they are ended up conscripted. They don't want to go to army (except for insane people).

    For this group (apart from some weird people), the army is cost (negative of some months, depending on age), while the benefit is that university is free for them (tuition fee is free).

    So my friend has done a program in studying in Israeli boarding school for several years (all boarding school fees free and paid for by Israel). When he was 18 years old, he left Israel (without immigrating to Israel) to avoid the army.

    When he was 21 he returned (immigrated) to Israel - but still had to join the army for about 8 months.

    After this, his entire medical school paid for (for free) by Israeli government. By comparison Israeli people, have to pay thousands of dollars of tuition (actually many are studying in medical in Ukraine or Russia to save money).

    His girlfriend, who has also studied in the Israeli boarding school, has even avoided the army completely (without leaving Israel), by saying somehow she was religiously Jewish (although she was actually baptised in Russia and not with any religious connection).

  127. @Jaakko Raipala
    It's a self-own if anything. Linus Torvalds is one of the militant leftists who somehow thought that the leftism would never get to him. I think a lot of people mistook him as some sort of a shitlord because he was a big rude NIMBY who wanted to run *his* project *his* way and got into arguments with SJWs but he was never against them in principle, just for his project.

    Mr Torvalds used to be a very active poster on Finnish USENET in the 1990s and he was one of the militant atheist skeptic people, the generation of aggressive leftists that came before the current generation of SJW trannies and PoC-allies. I think he tried to hide it in English for a while after he got feedback that making fun of Jesus at every opportunity could be bad for career prospects in America but this whole extremely leftish ethos of the "free software" stuff should have been a clue that the man was raised as a communist.

    His father is a MEP and one of the worst people in this country...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_Torvalds

    ...one of the "former communist" journalists who have switched sides from pro-Sovietism to NATO, EU and "diversity". Linus rarely comments on our politics these days but when he does he is in agreement with his "former communist" father and the rest of his "former communist" family. If the SJWs destroy Linux with "diversity" it is just desserts for Linus.

    More evidence both for high-iq and wildly self-destructive nature of leftism.

  128. @Tyrion 2
    I don't really disagree*. I'm just well placed to understand both sides and personally beyond reproach in this matter. It seems my perspective may be quite rare.

    It also allowed me to vent about the many ways the British Army has been made less fun (and effective), even as the senior officers are trying to dig themselves out by doubling down on the poz.

    *There are always exceptions. I don't think Orwell should have become a citizen of Spain, for example.

    Also, by "allied", I suppose I meant "friendly". Apologies for the loose terminology.

    And perhaps even this is a stretch, given that my fashionable London municipality was flying the Palestinian flag on top of our townhall for decades even while refusing to fly our own British national flag. Something about the latter being "racist" or something...

    ...now they fly the EU flag...it was put up after the successful vote to leave the EU...smh

    I don’t think Orwell should have become a citizen of Spain, for example.

    I don’t really have a positive view of the leftist volunteers in Spain tbh, even if one has of course to acknowledge that partly their actions were a reaction to the interventions by Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. It’s dubious how they are uncritically revered as heroes by many in Britain. The republican side in Spain committed many atrocities itself and wasn’t the side of pure good.
    But anyway, I don’t really blame Jews who want to serve in the IDF, and for now of course there isn’t a really serious contradiction between that and citizenship in a Western country. But such dual loyalties inevitably raise the question of how one would choose in the event of a serious conflict (e.g. what if Israel ever gets completely dominated by the hardcore national religious?). So I don’t think such behavior should be beyond criticism, even if alt-rightish people get unduly fixated on it due to their own obsessions.

    • Replies: @iffen
    (e.g. what if Israel ever gets completely dominated by the hardcore national religious?).

    The "real" JQ for today.
  129. @Tyrion 2
    I don't really disagree*. I'm just well placed to understand both sides and personally beyond reproach in this matter. It seems my perspective may be quite rare.

    It also allowed me to vent about the many ways the British Army has been made less fun (and effective), even as the senior officers are trying to dig themselves out by doubling down on the poz.

    *There are always exceptions. I don't think Orwell should have become a citizen of Spain, for example.

    Also, by "allied", I suppose I meant "friendly". Apologies for the loose terminology.

    And perhaps even this is a stretch, given that my fashionable London municipality was flying the Palestinian flag on top of our townhall for decades even while refusing to fly our own British national flag. Something about the latter being "racist" or something...

    ...now they fly the EU flag...it was put up after the successful vote to leave the EU...smh

    Take your Jewish apologetics somewhere else. Every sentence just proves you’re not really British.

    • Replies: @Tyrion 2

    Even seeing the occasional white grandmother with mulatto infant is soul-crushing though.
     
    Soul crushing?
  130. @German_reader

    However, I’d like to point out to them that perhaps they should be considering how long they have been listening to voices outside their tradition and where it has brought them.
     
    Oh shut the fuck up with your sanctimonious nonsense. I'm not trying to tell Catholics what they should think about abortion, premarital sex or whatever...I'm pissed at them because the church is facilitating an invasion of my country...primarily of your damned co-religionists. But no surprise that you think this is wonderful.
    Also bizarre that a Muslim interloper like you inserts himself into intra-Western debates and then tries to lecture me about my views about the church. Typical Islamic insolence.

    I’m not trying to tell Catholics what they should think

    Of course not, the discussion was simply about splitting the institution of its internal authority – who brought up abortion?

    I’m pissed at them because the church is facilitating an invasion of my country

    Of course, which goes back to my earlier point.

    But no surprise that you think this is wonderful.

    Nope, I’ve been on record multiple times that I have zero problems with shutting down immigration – so try again.

    intra-Western debates

    That’s your framing – I can frame as intra-Abrahamic…see how that works. You’re an atheist, why should they listen to you? I mean they should ignore me also if I tried to tell them that further fissuring their structures of authority are within their interests.

    I really think you should just ignore me, aneurisms are no laughing matter.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    I mean they should ignore me also if I tried to tell them that further fissuring their structures of authority are within their interests.
     
    Which I didn't, actually I was explicitly sceptical about proposals for creating a "national church" in Poland or anywhere else.
    But yes, it's probably better to end this discussion, your insolence is just too much. Depressing to think that many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of "our common Abrahamic roots" nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.
  131. @Dmitry
    Have you explored Spain? I've traveled across the country two years ago.

    Spain is full of Latin American (people like Mexican, Colombian, Bolivian, etc) immigrants and their children, which mainly have Spanish citizenship. This is by far the largest immigrant group. Latin American people are a huge group there, even in provincial areas.

    There are far more Catholic than Muslim immigrants to Spain (like in the USA). Although you hear quite a lot of Arab guys (hear more than see, because the guys visually similar to Spanish people) around Spain, as their Arabic conversations in the air.

    I know a lot of Spaniards and they don’t look like Arabs

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    In Spain, walking along, and suddenly hearing Arabic from guys I imagine are Spanish. Likewise, in the bus, suddenly hearing Arabic, from young women next to me I imagine were Spanish.

    -



    For Spanish guys who look like this (which I guess is about half of people in Spain), I don't notice a difference without hearing them speak (this Andaluz people).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXXuE2VdwBg
  132. @Talha

    I’m not trying to tell Catholics what they should think
     
    Of course not, the discussion was simply about splitting the institution of its internal authority - who brought up abortion?

    I’m pissed at them because the church is facilitating an invasion of my country
     
    Of course, which goes back to my earlier point.

    But no surprise that you think this is wonderful.
     
    Nope, I’ve been on record multiple times that I have zero problems with shutting down immigration - so try again.

    intra-Western debates
     
    That’s your framing - I can frame as intra-Abrahamic...see how that works. You’re an atheist, why should they listen to you? I mean they should ignore me also if I tried to tell them that further fissuring their structures of authority are within their interests.

    I really think you should just ignore me, aneurisms are no laughing matter.

    Peace.

    I mean they should ignore me also if I tried to tell them that further fissuring their structures of authority are within their interests.

    Which I didn’t, actually I was explicitly sceptical about proposals for creating a “national church” in Poland or anywhere else.
    But yes, it’s probably better to end this discussion, your insolence is just too much. Depressing to think that many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of “our common Abrahamic roots” nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.

    • Replies: @Talha

    advance their Islamic agenda.
     
    We are always advancing Islam, I’m asking Catholics to think about what their own interests are.

    The Church already has earlier paradigms and internal debates and internal tools as to how to halt immigration from Muslim countries; “Why the hell are we letting in all these Saracen heathens??!! Viva Christendom!”

    Of course, then they might look around and see themselves surrounded by unbelievers such as yourself and who knows what would transpire then...”Deus Vult”.

    There is quite a bit of overlap actually in agendas. In some of the Catholic circles (people like Robert P. George* and others) that are working with Muslim scholars and institutions in the US, the main concern is not on immigration right now - the bigger concern is stopping the poz steamroller.

    Peace.

    *Who wrote this great book:
    https://global.oup.com/academic/product/making-men-moral-9780198260240?cc=us&lang=en&#
    , @Swedish Family

    But yes, it’s probably better to end this discussion, your insolence is just too much. Depressing to think that many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of “our common Abrahamic roots” nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.
     
    I don't get why you are so bothered with Talha. He has written many times that he is against mass immigration, and it's natural that he should speak well of his faith, just as Christians do of theirs.
    , @iffen
    many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of “our common Abrahamic roots” nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.

    Are you commenting under the influence?
  133. Macron’s new bodyguards?

    The Merkel loyalist and the Turkish conquerer

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Macron’s new bodyguards?
     
    Probably his lovers, the guy just has to be a homo.
    , @Yevardian
    What the hell is this? And yes, Talha and all his ilk should be deported. His 'civilised' tone is so much more irritating than honest Islamists.
    , @LondonBob
    Macron is such a creepy weirdo.
  134. @Mitleser
    Macron's new bodyguards?

    https://i.redd.it/zu1dkpia4fp11.png


    The Merkel loyalist and the Turkish conquerer

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoQ_QonW0AAzBqP.jpg

    Macron’s new bodyguards?

    Probably his lovers, the guy just has to be a homo.

  135. @German_reader

    I mean they should ignore me also if I tried to tell them that further fissuring their structures of authority are within their interests.
     
    Which I didn't, actually I was explicitly sceptical about proposals for creating a "national church" in Poland or anywhere else.
    But yes, it's probably better to end this discussion, your insolence is just too much. Depressing to think that many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of "our common Abrahamic roots" nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.

    advance their Islamic agenda.

    We are always advancing Islam, I’m asking Catholics to think about what their own interests are.

    The Church already has earlier paradigms and internal debates and internal tools as to how to halt immigration from Muslim countries; “Why the hell are we letting in all these Saracen heathens??!! Viva Christendom!”

    Of course, then they might look around and see themselves surrounded by unbelievers such as yourself and who knows what would transpire then…”Deus Vult”.

    There is quite a bit of overlap actually in agendas. In some of the Catholic circles (people like Robert P. George* and others) that are working with Muslim scholars and institutions in the US, the main concern is not on immigration right now – the bigger concern is stopping the poz steamroller.

    Peace.

    *Who wrote this great book:

    https://global.oup.com/academic/product/making-men-moral-9780198260240?cc=us&lang=en&#

    • Replies: @German_reader

    There is quite a bit of overlap actually in agendas. In some of the Catholic circles (people like Robert P. George* and others) that are working with Muslim scholars and institutions in the US
     
    Those people are despicable fools, the only question is whether they'll eventually be the despised servants of their Muslim masters or be done away with by Western nationalists.
    There's no better way to ensure anti-Christian hostility by millions of Westerners than Christians cooperating with Muslims and acting as pro-Islamic apologists. An absurdly foolish policy, all the more so when it happens at a time when Christians are being expelled from the Mideast by Islamic fanatics.
    , @Talha
    I’m wondering if some of the Catholic voices here get what I’m talking about or am I completely off base? I’m not expecting them to agree with me, but are the points I am making valid?
  136. @Talha

    advance their Islamic agenda.
     
    We are always advancing Islam, I’m asking Catholics to think about what their own interests are.

    The Church already has earlier paradigms and internal debates and internal tools as to how to halt immigration from Muslim countries; “Why the hell are we letting in all these Saracen heathens??!! Viva Christendom!”

    Of course, then they might look around and see themselves surrounded by unbelievers such as yourself and who knows what would transpire then...”Deus Vult”.

    There is quite a bit of overlap actually in agendas. In some of the Catholic circles (people like Robert P. George* and others) that are working with Muslim scholars and institutions in the US, the main concern is not on immigration right now - the bigger concern is stopping the poz steamroller.

    Peace.

    *Who wrote this great book:
    https://global.oup.com/academic/product/making-men-moral-9780198260240?cc=us&lang=en&#

    There is quite a bit of overlap actually in agendas. In some of the Catholic circles (people like Robert P. George* and others) that are working with Muslim scholars and institutions in the US

    Those people are despicable fools, the only question is whether they’ll eventually be the despised servants of their Muslim masters or be done away with by Western nationalists.
    There’s no better way to ensure anti-Christian hostility by millions of Westerners than Christians cooperating with Muslims and acting as pro-Islamic apologists. An absurdly foolish policy, all the more so when it happens at a time when Christians are being expelled from the Mideast by Islamic fanatics.

    • Replies: @Talha

    There’s no better way to ensure anti-Christian hostility by millions of Westerners
     
    They are already hated by millions of Westerners; the poz would like to choke them to death. They are in an unenviable position and need to make some hard choices about priorities. It doesn’t help that Christianity continues to shed numbers faster than other religions. They might gain a lot of credit if they come out strongly at the head of an alliance against the poz. It is a calculation they must make.

    when Christians are being expelled from the Mideast by Islamic fanatics.
     
    To their great credit, Catholics have often been (out of the Western Christian tradition) the most capable of making distinctions between Muslim extremists and normative Islam:
    http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/jordans-shows-mercy-and-generosity-towards-displaced-christians#.W7EjcRZOmEc

    And were generally more opposed to the initial invasions that set the ME on fire in the first place. Hats and turbans off to them...

    Peace.
  137. @German_reader

    There is quite a bit of overlap actually in agendas. In some of the Catholic circles (people like Robert P. George* and others) that are working with Muslim scholars and institutions in the US
     
    Those people are despicable fools, the only question is whether they'll eventually be the despised servants of their Muslim masters or be done away with by Western nationalists.
    There's no better way to ensure anti-Christian hostility by millions of Westerners than Christians cooperating with Muslims and acting as pro-Islamic apologists. An absurdly foolish policy, all the more so when it happens at a time when Christians are being expelled from the Mideast by Islamic fanatics.

    There’s no better way to ensure anti-Christian hostility by millions of Westerners

    They are already hated by millions of Westerners; the poz would like to choke them to death. They are in an unenviable position and need to make some hard choices about priorities. It doesn’t help that Christianity continues to shed numbers faster than other religions. They might gain a lot of credit if they come out strongly at the head of an alliance against the poz. It is a calculation they must make.

    when Christians are being expelled from the Mideast by Islamic fanatics.

    To their great credit, Catholics have often been (out of the Western Christian tradition) the most capable of making distinctions between Muslim extremists and normative Islam:

    http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/jordans-shows-mercy-and-generosity-towards-displaced-christians#.W7EjcRZOmEc

    And were generally more opposed to the initial invasions that set the ME on fire in the first place. Hats and turbans off to them…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    They might gain a lot of credit if they come out strongly at the head of an alliance against the poz.
     
    No, they won't. Christians who think they should make common cause with Muslims against homos and secularism are very, very foolish, and one way or the other it will end badly for them. It will turn even many people who are merely indifferent towards Christianity into fervent enemies and confirm the view, already widespread among nationalists, that Christianity today is a subversive suicide cult, highly detrimental to the interests of Europeans.
    And for what? For the benefit of a religion whose adherents are viciously intolerant even towards long-established Christian communities in the Mideast, whose founder is the very epitome of the false prophets Christ warned against. There can be no greater idiocy.
  138. @German_reader

    I mean they should ignore me also if I tried to tell them that further fissuring their structures of authority are within their interests.
     
    Which I didn't, actually I was explicitly sceptical about proposals for creating a "national church" in Poland or anywhere else.
    But yes, it's probably better to end this discussion, your insolence is just too much. Depressing to think that many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of "our common Abrahamic roots" nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.

    But yes, it’s probably better to end this discussion, your insolence is just too much. Depressing to think that many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of “our common Abrahamic roots” nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.

    I don’t get why you are so bothered with Talha. He has written many times that he is against mass immigration, and it’s natural that he should speak well of his faith, just as Christians do of theirs.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
    Talha has also stated many times that he hopes for the Islamization of Europe (as is of course his duty as a devout Muslim) - or rather, that he is certain it will eventually happen. That attitude is the reason why there can at best be a truce with Muslims, genuine dialogue with mutual respect is impossible.
  139. @Talha

    advance their Islamic agenda.
     
    We are always advancing Islam, I’m asking Catholics to think about what their own interests are.

    The Church already has earlier paradigms and internal debates and internal tools as to how to halt immigration from Muslim countries; “Why the hell are we letting in all these Saracen heathens??!! Viva Christendom!”

    Of course, then they might look around and see themselves surrounded by unbelievers such as yourself and who knows what would transpire then...”Deus Vult”.

    There is quite a bit of overlap actually in agendas. In some of the Catholic circles (people like Robert P. George* and others) that are working with Muslim scholars and institutions in the US, the main concern is not on immigration right now - the bigger concern is stopping the poz steamroller.

    Peace.

    *Who wrote this great book:
    https://global.oup.com/academic/product/making-men-moral-9780198260240?cc=us&lang=en&#

    I’m wondering if some of the Catholic voices here get what I’m talking about or am I completely off base? I’m not expecting them to agree with me, but are the points I am making valid?

    • Replies: @Anon
    I've been away for a while and after the long weekend I'll probably go away again, and there are certainly a few Catholics on UR, and most of them (Twinkie, Rosamond Vincy, etc.) are probably better informed and more knowledgeable than I am, but as they don't seem to have read or replied to this post, and I have, there are a few things I might like to mention.

    First (and most importantly), Talha, way back when I mentioned that your local bishop, Blase Cardinal Cupich, and his office or palace, are probably good resources for learning or inquiry about the Faith. I'm not going to revoke that but I am going to qualify it. I live on the Northeast coast and the only knowledge I have of the Cardinal Archbishop is third-hand. It has lately come to my attention that he has said some things which I view as inane and ill-advised, but bishops hardly have a monopoly on that, and it doesn't alter the fact that for basic Catholic doctrine, the kind of stuff one would want to know being a novice to the Faith, and for help in the rather unlikely scenario that you should want to convert, the diocese and your local parish are probably good places to go.

    Anyway with respect to Christian-Muslim cooperation, which is what I think you are talking about, one must separate political cooperation from spiritual. Politically (though I'm not all that politically active) I'm quite ready to cooperate with any Muslims who want to, even though I doubt that matters much where I am because, first, Muslims are a tiny fraction of the population, and, second, they, as a group, generally tend towards the Left in US politics. Spiritually, ecumenism is not a bad thing, but it must be rather limited. As with other Protestant groups dialogue is okay, even some sort of shared prayer if done carefully, but no silly concelebration stuff. And of course social cooperation is okay, it's not like Catholic hospitals are going to turn away Muslims or anything.

    With respect to persecution, it must be recognized that persecution is actually generally pretty effective from a worldly point of view. (From our point of view it cannot weaken the Church-- what are numbers to God?) This is why England is Anglican and Japan is largely not Christian. The Roman Empire was pretty exceptional, for a number of reasons, some of which I'll probably miss.

    First, the Roman populace as a whole didn't really hate Christianity or Christians. They didn't like them, they made fun of them, they made up scurrilous stories about them, and they thought they might possibly be disloyal, but these were not by any means really deep or universal feelings. There were often local magistrates who either refused to execute their orders or executed them haphazardly-- in Africa when in the Decian persecution the Christian scriptures were ordered burned, the magistrates would sometimes quite happily burn copies of Livy or heretical tracts, with the connivance of some of the Christians* ("Yes, that copy of Livy's History is our holy book.") In general pagans didn't know that much about Christians and if it was discovered that X was a Christian their reaction may have been along the lines: "Oh, but he seemed such a nice sort of person". They might happily see such a person tortured, but it was after all a more brutal time. With Muslims (or Prots) this varies. I remember a long time ago on EWTN seeing a Pakistani from a relatively liberal and Westernized family, though quite a religious one. She had that perfect elocution accent that one doesn't seem to hear on the subcontinent among younger people anymore-- her conversion was back in the 60's when Pakistan was in general more liberal. She said that her mother told her she would much rather her daughter had come home with an illegitimate child, than having been received into the Church. (She was estranged from her family-- I don't remember if that lasted the half-century or so between her conversion and the show, I think she had had some contact with her brother at least).

    *These Christians being accused of disloyalty to the Church had consequences later for the Donatist schism (the Donatists repudiated priests ordained by people ordained by people they called traitors).

    Second, the Roman culture and legal system placed a great deal of emphasis on personal privacy and the inviolability of the family. Unlike in a Christian or Muslim society, nobody cared if you went to the temple, unless you took part in proscribed rites like those of Bacchus. There was really no reason why someone being a Christian might not go entirely unsuspected until informed upon or called upon to sacrifice to the emperor. Whereas in a Christian or Muslim society you get found out pretty much immediately. There's no sense "Wait, X was a Christian? How shocking, he was such an admirable fellow-- maybe that's why." In a Muslim family in a Muslim country a convert may well simply be killed by his own relatives-- it happens, and I have heard of several survivors of attempts on their lives.

    Thirdly, the Church in Roman society during times of persecution was entirely underground-- it was more of a blurry target. There was no visible thing to hit out at when somebody converted, if you could even tell they converted, given that as mentioned before Romans had a considerable respect for privacy.

    A good book on Rome in the time of the persecutions is Wiseman's Fabiola -- it is fiction, not history, and some of the archaeology is out of date, but it gives a lot of what we can discern of the atmosphere of those times.

    These conditions apply less to modern Muslim countries or historical England. In countries like Egypt and the Arab world (or Belfast not too long ago) there is a sort of tribal boundary, with rancor on both sides (though I think concentrated on one), and very few sincere conversions to anything. There are occasionally insincere conversions to Islam, but there are practically no insincere conversions from Islam, because in a Muslim country there are no advantages to that and lots of disadvantages.
  140. @DFH
    Take your Jewish apologetics somewhere else. Every sentence just proves you're not really British.

    Even seeing the occasional white grandmother with mulatto infant is soul-crushing though.

    Soul crushing?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Like this.

    https://abload.de/img/trklnvguih.jpg
  141. @Tyrion 2

    Even seeing the occasional white grandmother with mulatto infant is soul-crushing though.
     
    Soul crushing?

    Like this.

    • Replies: @Talha
    I will 100% agree this is an offense and affront to the German nation; displays of foreign flags should be taken as a public nuisance, violation of social contract and interdicted.

    Peace.
  142. Who wants to bet German Reader will end up converting to Islam :)

    And utu to Judaism lol.

    And Daniel Chieh will start drinking and taking drugs and learn how to enjoy his wetware and stop abusing women.

    The world cracks me up :)

    • Replies: @iffen
    I like to troll, AB, but you are tiresome.
    , @utu
    Yes, I may become the last eternally wandering Jew.
    https://monoskop.org/images/7/79/Wat_Aleksander_Lucifer_Unemployed.pdf
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Leave the women I've known out of your deranged rambles. My wife would almost certainly not be alive today if she hadn't met me, and she's suffered quite enough, thanks.
  143. @Talha

    There’s no better way to ensure anti-Christian hostility by millions of Westerners
     
    They are already hated by millions of Westerners; the poz would like to choke them to death. They are in an unenviable position and need to make some hard choices about priorities. It doesn’t help that Christianity continues to shed numbers faster than other religions. They might gain a lot of credit if they come out strongly at the head of an alliance against the poz. It is a calculation they must make.

    when Christians are being expelled from the Mideast by Islamic fanatics.
     
    To their great credit, Catholics have often been (out of the Western Christian tradition) the most capable of making distinctions between Muslim extremists and normative Islam:
    http://m.ncregister.com/daily-news/jordans-shows-mercy-and-generosity-towards-displaced-christians#.W7EjcRZOmEc

    And were generally more opposed to the initial invasions that set the ME on fire in the first place. Hats and turbans off to them...

    Peace.

    They might gain a lot of credit if they come out strongly at the head of an alliance against the poz.

    No, they won’t. Christians who think they should make common cause with Muslims against homos and secularism are very, very foolish, and one way or the other it will end badly for them. It will turn even many people who are merely indifferent towards Christianity into fervent enemies and confirm the view, already widespread among nationalists, that Christianity today is a subversive suicide cult, highly detrimental to the interests of Europeans.
    And for what? For the benefit of a religion whose adherents are viciously intolerant even towards long-established Christian communities in the Mideast, whose founder is the very epitome of the false prophets Christ warned against. There can be no greater idiocy.

    • Replies: @Talha

    suicide cult, highly detrimental to the interests of Europeans.
     
    Post-modern European culture is already suicidal, the question is how to get it out of the rut. If the Catholics are confident in their doctrine they’ll know they have the answer for society’s ailments.

    For the benefit of a religion
     
    No - for their own benefits...you seem to have let this get too personal and are completely ignoring my arguments.

    false prophets Christ warned against
     
    See what I’m talking about? They don’t need an atheist telling them this, this was basically the teachings of their early Church fathers. I’m telling people, they have all that they need within their own tradition to map out a way forward as they see best for their vision of society.

    Peace.
  144. @Swedish Family

    But yes, it’s probably better to end this discussion, your insolence is just too much. Depressing to think that many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of “our common Abrahamic roots” nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.
     
    I don't get why you are so bothered with Talha. He has written many times that he is against mass immigration, and it's natural that he should speak well of his faith, just as Christians do of theirs.

    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
    Talha has also stated many times that he hopes for the Islamization of Europe (as is of course his duty as a devout Muslim) – or rather, that he is certain it will eventually happen. That attitude is the reason why there can at best be a truce with Muslims, genuine dialogue with mutual respect is impossible.

    • Replies: @Swedish Family

    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
    Talha has also stated many times that he hopes for the Islamization of Europe (as is of course his duty as a devout Muslim) – or rather, that he is certain it will eventually happen. That attitude is the reason why there can at best be a truce with Muslims, genuine dialogue with mutual respect is impossible.
     
    I still think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Of course a devout Muslim would want to see his faith spread far and wide. This is no reason for alarm.

    And even if you do find that idea frightening, there is the question of how open Christian and atheist Europeans truly are to the Muslim way of life. What I see around me here in Sweden is zero interest from ethnic Swedes in converting to Islam but a good few sons and daughters of Muslim parents taking on our atheist way of life, with drugs, booze and one-night stands. If anything, then, Talha is the one who should grieve, since it's he who is losing his brothers in faith to atheism.
    , @AP

    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
     
    While Islam indeed has much in common with Communism (aggressive invasion, destruction and forced uniformity of beautiful pre-Islamic/pre-Commie traditions, slavery, etc.) it seems to have been a 7th century Puritanistic rather than Revolutionary phenomenon.
  145. @Mitleser
    Like this.

    https://abload.de/img/trklnvguih.jpg

    I will 100% agree this is an offense and affront to the German nation; displays of foreign flags should be taken as a public nuisance, violation of social contract and interdicted.

    Peace.

  146. @DFH
    I know a lot of Spaniards and they don't look like Arabs

    In Spain, walking along, and suddenly hearing Arabic from guys I imagine are Spanish. Likewise, in the bus, suddenly hearing Arabic, from young women next to me I imagine were Spanish.

    -

    For Spanish guys who look like this (which I guess is about half of people in Spain), I don’t notice a difference without hearing them speak (this Andaluz people).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    That Spaniard doesn't look Arab.
  147. @Anonymous
    Never heard of Sovokism.

    It is true that it is theoretically possible for Russia to export its culture, but that is true for any country.

    What sticks out about Russia that makes its culture unique?

    That I can tell, Russia is not really known for anything positive in the west besides caviar and vodka. These are luxurious items but not much to work with here.

    There are very famous Russian writers who put out good work, but I don't think that is enough.

    Sovokism is just Communism, or more like the culture and lifestyle that Soviet Communism brought about.

    Well, do the same as what the Soviets have done: Music and movies to start with. Russia still produces some very good music (especially in hip hop and deep house) and movies. They can start with that; South Korea is a good template to follow in terms of how to build an entire exportable entertainment industry from scratch, except Russians already have a robust entertainment industry for domestic consumption; that can easily be turned into a massive exportable industry.

    Food: I can see Western SWPLs pick up on stuff like borscht, blini, and beef stroganoff. SWPLize these foods and mass export them to the West (and the East)

    Russian ballet is already famous worldwide. Instead of promoting just the military, Russia can promote that too for civilian consumption. This includes other high culture such as classical music and artists for bourgeois consumption (who are still very important to win the hearts and minds of, as they wield outsized power)

    Literature: Authors like Tolstoy and Chekhov should have quite a few fans among bourgeois Europeans, at least not any less than other authors from the same era like Jane Austen which is known worldwide.

    I believe Russia has quite a few decent high end fashion designers. Their stuff should be promoted worldwide.

    VK, Yandex, and Telegram can definitely be improved and refined to go head-to-head against the Silicon Valley giants.

    Once the cultural and environmental basis for a Russophile fanbase in Europe has been created, especially among bourgeois, expect not only large scale easing of sanctions, but also attract Western expertise to build homegrown heavy industry and high-fashion icons.

    • Replies: @Swedish Family

    Food: I can see Western SWPLs pick up on stuff like borscht, blini, and beef stroganoff. SWPLize these foods and mass export them to the West (and the East)
     
    To add to that. There is a very popular Pelmeni "chain" (they only have two stores so far) in Riga named Pelmeni XL (https://www.xlpelmeni.lv/) that I always thought would be a winner if introduced in other countries. There is also the slightly more upscale The Varenik chain in Ukraine, which more than holds its own against "proper" Ukrainian restaurants (the most central one in Kiev is at the food court on the top floor of the Gulliver mall). I also think proper pirozhki, straight from the oven, would be a surefire SWPL favorite. And some of the famous soups to go with those.

    Russian ballet is already famous worldwide. Instead of promoting just the military, Russia can promote that too for civilian consumption. This includes other high culture such as classical music and artists for bourgeois consumption (who are still very important to win the hearts and minds of, as they wield outsized power)
     
    Russia is already a superpower for all western Europeans who enjoy classical music, ballet and opera, so no real need for improvement there, I think.

    Literature: Authors like Tolstoy and Chekhov should have quite a few fans among bourgeois Europeans, at least not any less than other authors from the same era like Jane Austen which is known worldwide.
     
    Same here. Russian literature is probably the second-most read foreign literature in Sweden after English (French literature might have it beaten by a hair, but I doubt it).

    What is needed is modern Russian culture. For the typical idea among middle-class people, especially older ones, is that Russian culture is all museums and Dead White Males.
    , @Matra
    Russia still produces some very good music (especially in hip hop

    Come, sweet asteroid of death. Destroy this world. The sooner the better.
  148. @Tyrion 2
    I don't really disagree*. I'm just well placed to understand both sides and personally beyond reproach in this matter. It seems my perspective may be quite rare.

    It also allowed me to vent about the many ways the British Army has been made less fun (and effective), even as the senior officers are trying to dig themselves out by doubling down on the poz.

    *There are always exceptions. I don't think Orwell should have become a citizen of Spain, for example.

    Also, by "allied", I suppose I meant "friendly". Apologies for the loose terminology.

    And perhaps even this is a stretch, given that my fashionable London municipality was flying the Palestinian flag on top of our townhall for decades even while refusing to fly our own British national flag. Something about the latter being "racist" or something...

    ...now they fly the EU flag...it was put up after the successful vote to leave the EU...smh

    Neither of you understand the process – these are people immigrating (repatriating) to Israel, this is how they are ended up conscripted. They don’t want to go to army (except for insane people).

    For this group (apart from some weird people), the army is cost (negative of some months, depending on age), while the benefit is that university is free for them (tuition fee is free).

    So my friend has done a program in studying in Israeli boarding school for several years (all boarding school fees free and paid for by Israel). When he was 18 years old, he left Israel (without immigrating to Israel) to avoid the army.

    When he was 21 he returned (immigrated) to Israel – but still had to join the army for about 8 months.

    After this, his entire medical school paid for (for free) by Israeli government. By comparison Israeli people, have to pay thousands of dollars of tuition (actually many are studying in medical in Ukraine or Russia to save money).

    His girlfriend, who has also studied in the Israeli boarding school, has even avoided the army completely (without leaving Israel), by saying somehow she was religiously Jewish (although she was actually baptised in Russia and not with any religious connection).

  149. @Dmitry
    In Spain, walking along, and suddenly hearing Arabic from guys I imagine are Spanish. Likewise, in the bus, suddenly hearing Arabic, from young women next to me I imagine were Spanish.

    -



    For Spanish guys who look like this (which I guess is about half of people in Spain), I don't notice a difference without hearing them speak (this Andaluz people).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXXuE2VdwBg

    That Spaniard doesn’t look Arab.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Bodylanguage and everything, is different to Arab, so local people surely see a difference.

    But walk in street in Spain - and Spanish look like that guy, and Arab immigrants often like guys below (not black skinned Saudi Arabs), then it's nothing surprising tourist like me does not notice who are the Arabs there.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSkphcDxwnw

  150. @German_reader

    They might gain a lot of credit if they come out strongly at the head of an alliance against the poz.
     
    No, they won't. Christians who think they should make common cause with Muslims against homos and secularism are very, very foolish, and one way or the other it will end badly for them. It will turn even many people who are merely indifferent towards Christianity into fervent enemies and confirm the view, already widespread among nationalists, that Christianity today is a subversive suicide cult, highly detrimental to the interests of Europeans.
    And for what? For the benefit of a religion whose adherents are viciously intolerant even towards long-established Christian communities in the Mideast, whose founder is the very epitome of the false prophets Christ warned against. There can be no greater idiocy.

    suicide cult, highly detrimental to the interests of Europeans.

    Post-modern European culture is already suicidal, the question is how to get it out of the rut. If the Catholics are confident in their doctrine they’ll know they have the answer for society’s ailments.

    For the benefit of a religion

    No – for their own benefits…you seem to have let this get too personal and are completely ignoring my arguments.

    false prophets Christ warned against

    See what I’m talking about? They don’t need an atheist telling them this, this was basically the teachings of their early Church fathers. I’m telling people, they have all that they need within their own tradition to map out a way forward as they see best for their vision of society.

    Peace.

  151. @German_reader
    That Spaniard doesn't look Arab.

    Bodylanguage and everything, is different to Arab, so local people surely see a difference.

    But walk in street in Spain – and Spanish look like that guy, and Arab immigrants often like guys below (not black skinned Saudi Arabs), then it’s nothing surprising tourist like me does not notice who are the Arabs there.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    E.g.
    Salma Hayek - half Arab
    Shakira - half Arab,
    Penelope Cruz -Spanish.

    Yet if I had guess of the three, externally - I would think Penelope Cruz as the more Arab descended one?
  152. @Dmitry
    Bodylanguage and everything, is different to Arab, so local people surely see a difference.

    But walk in street in Spain - and Spanish look like that guy, and Arab immigrants often like guys below (not black skinned Saudi Arabs), then it's nothing surprising tourist like me does not notice who are the Arabs there.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSkphcDxwnw

    E.g.
    Salma Hayek – half Arab
    Shakira – half Arab,
    Penelope Cruz -Spanish.

    Yet if I had guess of the three, externally – I would think Penelope Cruz as the more Arab descended one?

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Salma Hayek – half Arab
    Shakira – half Arab
     
    Arab in that case means Lebanese Christian. I've never been to the Mideast (why should I...it's coming to me anyway, lol), but my impression is that Lebanese Christians are often fairly light types of the Mediterranean kind.
    To be blunt, Sunni Arabs often seem to be a lot darker (sometimes downright Negroid).
    Anyway, I'm not that keen on discussing physical types, but the Spaniard in your video, while not exactly Nordic-looking, wouldn't be obviously out of place in much of Europe imo.
  153. @Dmitry
    E.g.
    Salma Hayek - half Arab
    Shakira - half Arab,
    Penelope Cruz -Spanish.

    Yet if I had guess of the three, externally - I would think Penelope Cruz as the more Arab descended one?

    Salma Hayek – half Arab
    Shakira – half Arab

    Arab in that case means Lebanese Christian. I’ve never been to the Mideast (why should I…it’s coming to me anyway, lol), but my impression is that Lebanese Christians are often fairly light types of the Mediterranean kind.
    To be blunt, Sunni Arabs often seem to be a lot darker (sometimes downright Negroid).
    Anyway, I’m not that keen on discussing physical types, but the Spaniard in your video, while not exactly Nordic-looking, wouldn’t be obviously out of place in much of Europe imo.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Arabs are appearing as mixed population. Overall it's dark or even partly black people, but with a lot of gradations, and even blondes.

    Spanish also mixed appearing, with part of the population being light, and part of it being dark, even going very dark - majority being somewhere in between the two colours.

    Between the two groups, a significant proportion of overlap, where they look the same (lighter proportion of Arabs the same - to my untrained eyes - as darker proportion of Spanish).

    For me, as a simple tourist travelling in Spain - I had some experience of not noticing the local Arabs, until hearing suddenly people speaking in Arabic.

    Also in Spain, there are a lot of Pakistani and African guys (obviously these even the tourist can notice).

    , @Hyperborean
    It is my impression that Middle Easterners have very varied skin tones, from swarthy dark brown to normal European white.

    Some of the white ones can pass as European, but the facial structure tends to be rather Middle Eastern.
  154. @German_reader
    I didn't, but then I honestly don't care about your sanctimonious Islamic propaganda nonsense that you insist on forcing on us at every opportunity.

    You are off target with your criticism of Talha.

  155. I leave for RL for a day and you people go bonkers.

    • LOL: Talha
  156. @Dmitry
    Lol, I went to Tijuana for an afternoon last year - a little scary. But if it's representative of Mexico, it's a lot more similar to America.

    Anyway, in relevance to the topic. Spain combines a very safe and liberal atmosphere - people smoking openly cannabis everywhere, brothels on many streets, and casinos in centers of larger cities.

    German Reader is correct about the church's attitude in Spain. Inside the churches, signs about donating to help refugees - I was there all summer 2016. This seems the cause they were interested in at least that year (2016). I think they also were also giving food to refugees in a lot of towns.

    More interesting for us, was how Spain manage to achieve such cheap prices of beer and coffee, compared to the rest of Western Europe. There was even Russian man who was selling Russian beers from this kind of shed in the center of one town in Basque Country. This guy sell us 5 large cans of different Russian beer for 3 euros (crazy how he was making a profit).

    Spain combines a very safe and liberal atmosphere – people smoking openly cannabis everywhere, brothels on many streets, and casinos in centers of larger cities.

    Fuck the Garden of Eden.

    • Disagree: AaronB
    • Replies: @Talha
    Exactly!!!

    Peace.
    , @Dmitry
    Spain is closer to paradise than most countries. Cheaper beer and (I'm pretty sure) more cheap cannabis, than anywhere in Western Europe.

    But then, there is real generational warfare, where older people are dominating the jobs with good salaries, and fewer and fewer opportunities for young people (regardless whether they are even engineers and scientists), who are many of them leaving the country.

    Also a lot of young people, looks like they are still in 1980s, or early 1990s. Even a lot of young people dressing and acting like they are early 1990s fans of Nirvana .

    This man (who sells Russian beer), was telling us he emigrated to Spain (Basque country) 20 years ago, exactly because he is a fan of their 1980s punk music. Not sure how this story was possible - but it's apparently in North Spain a world center of 1980s punk music.

  157. @German_reader

    I don’t think Orwell should have become a citizen of Spain, for example.
     
    I don't really have a positive view of the leftist volunteers in Spain tbh, even if one has of course to acknowledge that partly their actions were a reaction to the interventions by Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. It's dubious how they are uncritically revered as heroes by many in Britain. The republican side in Spain committed many atrocities itself and wasn't the side of pure good.
    But anyway, I don't really blame Jews who want to serve in the IDF, and for now of course there isn't a really serious contradiction between that and citizenship in a Western country. But such dual loyalties inevitably raise the question of how one would choose in the event of a serious conflict (e.g. what if Israel ever gets completely dominated by the hardcore national religious?). So I don't think such behavior should be beyond criticism, even if alt-rightish people get unduly fixated on it due to their own obsessions.

    (e.g. what if Israel ever gets completely dominated by the hardcore national religious?).

    The “real” JQ for today.

  158. @German_reader

    I mean they should ignore me also if I tried to tell them that further fissuring their structures of authority are within their interests.
     
    Which I didn't, actually I was explicitly sceptical about proposals for creating a "national church" in Poland or anywhere else.
    But yes, it's probably better to end this discussion, your insolence is just too much. Depressing to think that many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of "our common Abrahamic roots" nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.

    many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of “our common Abrahamic roots” nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.

    Are you commenting under the influence?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    No, I don't drink alcohol, and I stand by the content of my comments, even if you may criticize their tone. In America you've got many problems, but you can still afford to be somewhat naive about Islam, but the same isn't true in Europe. Islamization is a real threat and the spread of Islamic influence has to be firmly countered. And that's not even a strictly nationalist issue, if they weren't so delusional, it would be a commonsense position even for liberals and left-wingers.
  159. @AaronB
    Who wants to bet German Reader will end up converting to Islam :)

    And utu to Judaism lol.

    And Daniel Chieh will start drinking and taking drugs and learn how to enjoy his wetware and stop abusing women.

    The world cracks me up :)

    I like to troll, AB, but you are tiresome.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Ignore button?
  160. @iffen
    many gullible Christians will probably fall for the kind of “our common Abrahamic roots” nonsense people like you are employing to advance their Islamic agenda.

    Are you commenting under the influence?

    No, I don’t drink alcohol, and I stand by the content of my comments, even if you may criticize their tone. In America you’ve got many problems, but you can still afford to be somewhat naive about Islam, but the same isn’t true in Europe. Islamization is a real threat and the spread of Islamic influence has to be firmly countered. And that’s not even a strictly nationalist issue, if they weren’t so delusional, it would be a commonsense position even for liberals and left-wingers.

    • Replies: @iffen
    In America you’ve got many problems, but you can still afford to be somewhat naive about Islam, but the same isn’t true in Europe.

    I agree with this comment. I am not naive about Islam and if the comment mechanism allowed it we could go back and find the comment(s) where I told Talha that I thought Islam was not compatible with ‘Murica. I appreciate your concern about the Muslims in Germany and Europe. You might not recall, but it was you who informed me that the US likely pressured Germany into accepting the Turkish gastarbeiters. Talha is upfront and not duplicitous.
  161. @German_reader
    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
    Talha has also stated many times that he hopes for the Islamization of Europe (as is of course his duty as a devout Muslim) - or rather, that he is certain it will eventually happen. That attitude is the reason why there can at best be a truce with Muslims, genuine dialogue with mutual respect is impossible.

    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
    Talha has also stated many times that he hopes for the Islamization of Europe (as is of course his duty as a devout Muslim) – or rather, that he is certain it will eventually happen. That attitude is the reason why there can at best be a truce with Muslims, genuine dialogue with mutual respect is impossible.

    I still think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Of course a devout Muslim would want to see his faith spread far and wide. This is no reason for alarm.

    And even if you do find that idea frightening, there is the question of how open Christian and atheist Europeans truly are to the Muslim way of life. What I see around me here in Sweden is zero interest from ethnic Swedes in converting to Islam but a good few sons and daughters of Muslim parents taking on our atheist way of life, with drugs, booze and one-night stands. If anything, then, Talha is the one who should grieve, since it’s he who is losing his brothers in faith to atheism.

    • Replies: @Talha
    We had a very down to earth talk last night at a dinner with our spiritual teacher. This is the upshot of what he told us (and he is in the trenches, helping and counseling many, many families with their problems):

    Muslims in the US are way too overconfident in thinking that people are simply leaving religion and the situation is just waiting for Islam to take over. We look at the Blue areas and think everyone is basically hedonistic but rarely keep track of what’s happening in Red fly-over country where Christians may not be practicing but have a strong sense of Christian identity. These are also heavily allied with Zionists and generally dislike Islam for one or other reason. We are losing plenty of our youth and are swimming against a very strong current. If Islam comes to the US it will be a long slog and may take many centuries.

    Just some insights...

    Also, I would certainly hope that Christians still care about converting the world over to their side, otherwise they have basically lost a lot of confidence and are in major defensive mode.

    Peace.
    , @German_reader

    This is no reason for alarm.
     
    Are all Swedes as painfully naive as you?

    I'll summarize some of the positions Talha has taken in the past:

    - hopes for the Islamization of Europe and the US.
    - thinks the rollback of secularism in the Islamic world over the past few decades is just wonderful, and that people like the truly vile Erdogan are good champions of Islam.
    - would like laws barring Muslim women from marrying non-Muslims.
    - has openly stated that his ideal society is some kind of Islamic state where "blasphemy" will be punished (iirc he admitted the death penalty might be too harsh, and public flogging and exile for repeat offenders might suffice...I wonder though where blasphemers could be exiled to once Islam dominates the entire globe...maybe Antarctica?).
    His enthusiasm for the millet system of the Ottoman empire doesn't inspire confidence either.
    - first reaction when he hears about something like the Rohingya issue in Burma isn't a call for sanctions, UN investigation etc., but no, it's a call for armed struggle in the support of his "brothers".

    Talha isn't a Westernized or semi-Westernized Muslim who believes a little bit in God, he is (and has admitted as much in the past) at least a soft Islamist who wants society structured along Islamic lines. We've seen in societies like Algeria or Turkey where this eventually leads to.
    I don't intend to bully Talha away from here (his comments are quite educational after all...if one takes the trouble to read them closely), but I won't refrain from stating that I find the agenda of people like him profoundly noxious.


    What I see around me here in Sweden is zero interest from ethnic Swedes in converting to Islam but a good few sons and daughters of Muslim parents taking on our atheist way of life, with drugs, booze and one-night stands.
     
    That certainly happens, but on the other hand you've also got the phenomenon that the 3rd or even 4th generation of Muslims in Europe is at least in part actually more religious than their parents and grandparents were. It's not clear imo that secularization and Westernization will prevail.
    Regarding conversion to Islam, I agree, not likely to be a serious issue...but tell that to Talha, it's him who always goes on about how Europeans will convert to Islam (because it's Allah's will or whatever).
    , @Duke of Qin
    Swedes may have zero interest in Islam, but rest assured Islam is interested in you. What is going to happen, or rather what has already happened is that Islam creates parallel societies that are in open conflict with non-Muslim ones and even "bad" Muslim (anyone outside Sunni orthodoxy). Given sufficient concentration, Muslims are going to organically organize into political agitation groups (small numbers) or sectarian mobs (large numbers) because the freedom of religion in Western societies essentially functions as unilateral religious disarmament. Considering the pure levels of aggression exercised by the African and Middle Eastern ethnies that have embraced Islam, it doesn't take particularly large numbers to get trouble

    The early Modern anti-liberals had a clear idea of the problems with the Jews and this applies doubly so to the Muslims.

    The Christian state knows only privileges. In this state, the Jew has the privilege of being a Jew. As a Jew, he has rights which the Christians do not have. Why should he want rights which he does not have, but which the Christians enjoy?

    In wanting to be emancipated from the Christian state, the Jew is demanding that the Christian state should give up its religious prejudice. Does he, the Jew, give up his religious prejudice? Has he, then, the right to demand that someone else should renounce his religion?
     
    Simply replace all instances of Christian with Secular and Jews with Muslims and you get to the heart of the problem. The Muslims take strategic and opportunistic advantage of the secular nature of Western states to advance his tribals interests, but he in no way surrenders his own religious prejudices, but even goes so far as to double down on them. The simpel truth that Western liberals are unwilling to acknowledge is that the majority of Muslims often secretly and but more usually openly hold non Muslims in contempt. You are Kuffar, and the the more you abase yourself to accomodate your societies to account for their social mores, they more they will despise you for your weakness and the more they will demand.
  162. @iffen
    Spain combines a very safe and liberal atmosphere – people smoking openly cannabis everywhere, brothels on many streets, and casinos in centers of larger cities.

    Fuck the Garden of Eden.

    Exactly!!!

    Peace.

  163. @iffen
    I like to troll, AB, but you are tiresome.

    Ignore button?

    • Replies: @iffen
    Ignore button?

    CTI does not work correctly and never has. Likely has some connection to the Unz genius stuff.

    I do not wish to ignore your comments. I just wanted to point out that IMO some are tiresome.

  164. @German_reader
    No, I don't drink alcohol, and I stand by the content of my comments, even if you may criticize their tone. In America you've got many problems, but you can still afford to be somewhat naive about Islam, but the same isn't true in Europe. Islamization is a real threat and the spread of Islamic influence has to be firmly countered. And that's not even a strictly nationalist issue, if they weren't so delusional, it would be a commonsense position even for liberals and left-wingers.

    In America you’ve got many problems, but you can still afford to be somewhat naive about Islam, but the same isn’t true in Europe.

    I agree with this comment. I am not naive about Islam and if the comment mechanism allowed it we could go back and find the comment(s) where I told Talha that I thought Islam was not compatible with ‘Murica. I appreciate your concern about the Muslims in Germany and Europe. You might not recall, but it was you who informed me that the US likely pressured Germany into accepting the Turkish gastarbeiters. Talha is upfront and not duplicitous.

  165. @Swedish Family

    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
    Talha has also stated many times that he hopes for the Islamization of Europe (as is of course his duty as a devout Muslim) – or rather, that he is certain it will eventually happen. That attitude is the reason why there can at best be a truce with Muslims, genuine dialogue with mutual respect is impossible.
     
    I still think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Of course a devout Muslim would want to see his faith spread far and wide. This is no reason for alarm.

    And even if you do find that idea frightening, there is the question of how open Christian and atheist Europeans truly are to the Muslim way of life. What I see around me here in Sweden is zero interest from ethnic Swedes in converting to Islam but a good few sons and daughters of Muslim parents taking on our atheist way of life, with drugs, booze and one-night stands. If anything, then, Talha is the one who should grieve, since it's he who is losing his brothers in faith to atheism.

    We had a very down to earth talk last night at a dinner with our spiritual teacher. This is the upshot of what he told us (and he is in the trenches, helping and counseling many, many families with their problems):

    Muslims in the US are way too overconfident in thinking that people are simply leaving religion and the situation is just waiting for Islam to take over. We look at the Blue areas and think everyone is basically hedonistic but rarely keep track of what’s happening in Red fly-over country where Christians may not be practicing but have a strong sense of Christian identity. These are also heavily allied with Zionists and generally dislike Islam for one or other reason. We are losing plenty of our youth and are swimming against a very strong current. If Islam comes to the US it will be a long slog and may take many centuries.

    Just some insights…

    Also, I would certainly hope that Christians still care about converting the world over to their side, otherwise they have basically lost a lot of confidence and are in major defensive mode.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    He didn’t say much about Europe since he doesn’t know much about the situation there.
    , @Swedish Family

    Muslims in the US are way too overconfident in thinking that people are simply leaving religion and the situation is just waiting for Islam to take over. We look at the Blue areas and think everyone is basically hedonistic but rarely keep track of what’s happening in Red fly-over country where Christians may not be practicing but have a strong sense of Christian identity. These are also heavily allied with Zionists and generally dislike Islam for one or other reason. We are losing plenty of our youth and are swimming against a very strong current. If Islam comes to the US it will be a long slog and may take many centuries.
     
    But is losing some children of Muslims to Christianity really such a blow? Surely the gulf between believers and non-believers is far wider than that between Muslims and Christians.

    And while we are on the subject, I'm interested in your thoughts on the law against proselytization that Russia introduced in 2016.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarovaya_law
  166. @AaronB
    Ignore button?

    Ignore button?

    CTI does not work correctly and never has. Likely has some connection to the Unz genius stuff.

    I do not wish to ignore your comments. I just wanted to point out that IMO some are tiresome.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Ah, well, sorry my friend. I cannot help it. I simply can't things seriously anymore. Its the result of all that Buddhist reading.

    The upshot of liberation is to no longer take anything seriously anymore. So simple - yet so profound. Few will understand. And that's ok :)

    Once you understand only activities without purpose have meaning, you are free.

    Good luck.
  167. @AaronB
    Who wants to bet German Reader will end up converting to Islam :)

    And utu to Judaism lol.

    And Daniel Chieh will start drinking and taking drugs and learn how to enjoy his wetware and stop abusing women.

    The world cracks me up :)

    Yes, I may become the last eternally wandering Jew.

    https://monoskop.org/images/7/79/Wat_Aleksander_Lucifer_Unemployed.pdf

    • Replies: @AaronB
    Utu, before this is over you will be a Hasid living in Boro Park, dancing on the Sabbath, a blissful grin on your face, your morbid gloom a distant memory.

    Don't you know we become the thing we fight, utu?

    But that is an interesting book I shall have to look into it.
  168. @German_reader

    Salma Hayek – half Arab
    Shakira – half Arab
     
    Arab in that case means Lebanese Christian. I've never been to the Mideast (why should I...it's coming to me anyway, lol), but my impression is that Lebanese Christians are often fairly light types of the Mediterranean kind.
    To be blunt, Sunni Arabs often seem to be a lot darker (sometimes downright Negroid).
    Anyway, I'm not that keen on discussing physical types, but the Spaniard in your video, while not exactly Nordic-looking, wouldn't be obviously out of place in much of Europe imo.

    Arabs are appearing as mixed population. Overall it’s dark or even partly black people, but with a lot of gradations, and even blondes.

    Spanish also mixed appearing, with part of the population being light, and part of it being dark, even going very dark – majority being somewhere in between the two colours.

    Between the two groups, a significant proportion of overlap, where they look the same (lighter proportion of Arabs the same – to my untrained eyes – as darker proportion of Spanish).

    For me, as a simple tourist travelling in Spain – I had some experience of not noticing the local Arabs, until hearing suddenly people speaking in Arabic.

    Also in Spain, there are a lot of Pakistani and African guys (obviously these even the tourist can notice).

  169. @Swedish Family

    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
    Talha has also stated many times that he hopes for the Islamization of Europe (as is of course his duty as a devout Muslim) – or rather, that he is certain it will eventually happen. That attitude is the reason why there can at best be a truce with Muslims, genuine dialogue with mutual respect is impossible.
     
    I still think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Of course a devout Muslim would want to see his faith spread far and wide. This is no reason for alarm.

    And even if you do find that idea frightening, there is the question of how open Christian and atheist Europeans truly are to the Muslim way of life. What I see around me here in Sweden is zero interest from ethnic Swedes in converting to Islam but a good few sons and daughters of Muslim parents taking on our atheist way of life, with drugs, booze and one-night stands. If anything, then, Talha is the one who should grieve, since it's he who is losing his brothers in faith to atheism.

    This is no reason for alarm.

    Are all Swedes as painfully naive as you?

    I’ll summarize some of the positions Talha has taken in the past:

    - hopes for the Islamization of Europe and the US.
    - thinks the rollback of secularism in the Islamic world over the past few decades is just wonderful, and that people like the truly vile Erdogan are good champions of Islam.
    - would like laws barring Muslim women from marrying non-Muslims.
    - has openly stated that his ideal society is some kind of Islamic state where “blasphemy” will be punished (iirc he admitted the death penalty might be too harsh, and public flogging and exile for repeat offenders might suffice…I wonder though where blasphemers could be exiled to once Islam dominates the entire globe…maybe Antarctica?).
    His enthusiasm for the millet system of the Ottoman empire doesn’t inspire confidence either.
    - first reaction when he hears about something like the Rohingya issue in Burma isn’t a call for sanctions, UN investigation etc., but no, it’s a call for armed struggle in the support of his “brothers”.

    Talha isn’t a Westernized or semi-Westernized Muslim who believes a little bit in God, he is (and has admitted as much in the past) at least a soft Islamist who wants society structured along Islamic lines. We’ve seen in societies like Algeria or Turkey where this eventually leads to.
    I don’t intend to bully Talha away from here (his comments are quite educational after all…if one takes the trouble to read them closely), but I won’t refrain from stating that I find the agenda of people like him profoundly noxious.

    What I see around me here in Sweden is zero interest from ethnic Swedes in converting to Islam but a good few sons and daughters of Muslim parents taking on our atheist way of life, with drugs, booze and one-night stands.

    That certainly happens, but on the other hand you’ve also got the phenomenon that the 3rd or even 4th generation of Muslims in Europe is at least in part actually more religious than their parents and grandparents were. It’s not clear imo that secularization and Westernization will prevail.
    Regarding conversion to Islam, I agree, not likely to be a serious issue…but tell that to Talha, it’s him who always goes on about how Europeans will convert to Islam (because it’s Allah’s will or whatever).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Talha is an Islamist, though.

    I don't believe average people of Muslim background, are all having exactly the scary Islamist views like Talha.

    In real life, only people I have met from Muslim countries, even never said anything about Islam or religion.

    (And I'm not fan of Islamism at all, but in real life it's not like people would know this).

    , @iffen
    Talha isn’t a Westernized or semi-Westernized Muslim who believes a little bit in God,

    This is nutty, it doesn't make sense.
    , @Swedish Family

    That certainly happens, but on the other hand you’ve also got the phenomenon that the 3rd or even 4th generation of Muslims in Europe is at least in part actually more religious than their parents and grandparents were. It’s not clear imo that secularization and Westernization will prevail.
     
    I would be very interested to see some hard data on this.

    Swedish academics claim that the very strong trend is that, in only 2 or 3 generations, immigrants quickly get swallowed up by their new host culture and retain only trappings of their ancestors' culture (some favorite dish from back home, the odd loanword). My personal observations strongly support this theory.

    What aids this process in Sweden -- and probably in Germany too, although I haven't checked -- is that our immigrants are such a motley lot that there is no earthly way they could form a strong common culture. Their options, then, are to assimilate into Swedish culture or to languish in very small cultural ghettoes. And most immigrants, it seems to me, quickly see that assimilation is the only way forward.

    The situation with all the Hispanics in the United States looks far trickier in comparison. Maybe you saw the news the other day that 67 million Americans don't speak English at home?

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-20/48-us-residents-top-5-cities-dont-speak-english-home-67-million-overall
  170. @iffen
    Ignore button?

    CTI does not work correctly and never has. Likely has some connection to the Unz genius stuff.

    I do not wish to ignore your comments. I just wanted to point out that IMO some are tiresome.

    Ah, well, sorry my friend. I cannot help it. I simply can’t things seriously anymore. Its the result of all that Buddhist reading.

    The upshot of liberation is to no longer take anything seriously anymore. So simple – yet so profound. Few will understand. And that’s ok :)

    Once you understand only activities without purpose have meaning, you are free.

    Good luck.

  171. @Talha
    We had a very down to earth talk last night at a dinner with our spiritual teacher. This is the upshot of what he told us (and he is in the trenches, helping and counseling many, many families with their problems):

    Muslims in the US are way too overconfident in thinking that people are simply leaving religion and the situation is just waiting for Islam to take over. We look at the Blue areas and think everyone is basically hedonistic but rarely keep track of what’s happening in Red fly-over country where Christians may not be practicing but have a strong sense of Christian identity. These are also heavily allied with Zionists and generally dislike Islam for one or other reason. We are losing plenty of our youth and are swimming against a very strong current. If Islam comes to the US it will be a long slog and may take many centuries.

    Just some insights...

    Also, I would certainly hope that Christians still care about converting the world over to their side, otherwise they have basically lost a lot of confidence and are in major defensive mode.

    Peace.

    He didn’t say much about Europe since he doesn’t know much about the situation there.

  172. @utu
    Yes, I may become the last eternally wandering Jew.
    https://monoskop.org/images/7/79/Wat_Aleksander_Lucifer_Unemployed.pdf

    Utu, before this is over you will be a Hasid living in Boro Park, dancing on the Sabbath, a blissful grin on your face, your morbid gloom a distant memory.

    Don’t you know we become the thing we fight, utu?

    But that is an interesting book I shall have to look into it.

    • Replies: @utu
    I do not fight Hasids. I want all Jews become Hasids. Rabbi Yakov Shapiro is my man.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcjO2nNz09k
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQD8vW8qTow

    Check out The Wandering Jew by Wat I linked above.
    , @Hyperborean

    Don’t you know we become the thing we fight
     
    So why are you fighting us?
  173. @AquariusAnon
    Sovokism is just Communism, or more like the culture and lifestyle that Soviet Communism brought about.

    Well, do the same as what the Soviets have done: Music and movies to start with. Russia still produces some very good music (especially in hip hop and deep house) and movies. They can start with that; South Korea is a good template to follow in terms of how to build an entire exportable entertainment industry from scratch, except Russians already have a robust entertainment industry for domestic consumption; that can easily be turned into a massive exportable industry.

    Food: I can see Western SWPLs pick up on stuff like borscht, blini, and beef stroganoff. SWPLize these foods and mass export them to the West (and the East)

    Russian ballet is already famous worldwide. Instead of promoting just the military, Russia can promote that too for civilian consumption. This includes other high culture such as classical music and artists for bourgeois consumption (who are still very important to win the hearts and minds of, as they wield outsized power)

    Literature: Authors like Tolstoy and Chekhov should have quite a few fans among bourgeois Europeans, at least not any less than other authors from the same era like Jane Austen which is known worldwide.

    I believe Russia has quite a few decent high end fashion designers. Their stuff should be promoted worldwide.

    VK, Yandex, and Telegram can definitely be improved and refined to go head-to-head against the Silicon Valley giants.

    Once the cultural and environmental basis for a Russophile fanbase in Europe has been created, especially among bourgeois, expect not only large scale easing of sanctions, but also attract Western expertise to build homegrown heavy industry and high-fashion icons.

    Food: I can see Western SWPLs pick up on stuff like borscht, blini, and beef stroganoff. SWPLize these foods and mass export them to the West (and the East)

    To add to that. There is a very popular Pelmeni “chain” (they only have two stores so far) in Riga named Pelmeni XL (https://www.xlpelmeni.lv/) that I always thought would be a winner if introduced in other countries. There is also the slightly more upscale The Varenik chain in Ukraine, which more than holds its own against “proper” Ukrainian restaurants (the most central one in Kiev is at the food court on the top floor of the Gulliver mall). I also think proper pirozhki, straight from the oven, would be a surefire SWPL favorite. And some of the famous soups to go with those.

    Russian ballet is already famous worldwide. Instead of promoting just the military, Russia can promote that too for civilian consumption. This includes other high culture such as classical music and artists for bourgeois consumption (who are still very important to win the hearts and minds of, as they wield outsized power)

    Russia is already a superpower for all western Europeans who enjoy classical music, ballet and opera, so no real need for improvement there, I think.

    Literature: Authors like Tolstoy and Chekhov should have quite a few fans among bourgeois Europeans, at least not any less than other authors from the same era like Jane Austen which is known worldwide.

    Same here. Russian literature is probably the second-most read foreign literature in Sweden after English (French literature might have it beaten by a hair, but I doubt it).

    What is needed is modern Russian culture. For the typical idea among middle-class people, especially older ones, is that Russian culture is all museums and Dead White Males.

    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
    True. At least people in Sweden can think of the museums like the Hermitage when thinking of Russia.

    But in the US? Its significantly worse. People just think of the country as a cold, dark, decaying Sovok dump where nothing works properly, with an aggressive military and oil as its only export. This is clearly not true.

    Food and entertainment should be Russia's foot in the door to completely change that.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    You're right. Piroshky Piroshky is one of the most popular eateries in Seattle, one of the world's SWPLiest cities. This could be a hit if someone was to commercialize it right.
  174. @AquariusAnon
    Sovokism is just Communism, or more like the culture and lifestyle that Soviet Communism brought about.

    Well, do the same as what the Soviets have done: Music and movies to start with. Russia still produces some very good music (especially in hip hop and deep house) and movies. They can start with that; South Korea is a good template to follow in terms of how to build an entire exportable entertainment industry from scratch, except Russians already have a robust entertainment industry for domestic consumption; that can easily be turned into a massive exportable industry.

    Food: I can see Western SWPLs pick up on stuff like borscht, blini, and beef stroganoff. SWPLize these foods and mass export them to the West (and the East)

    Russian ballet is already famous worldwide. Instead of promoting just the military, Russia can promote that too for civilian consumption. This includes other high culture such as classical music and artists for bourgeois consumption (who are still very important to win the hearts and minds of, as they wield outsized power)

    Literature: Authors like Tolstoy and Chekhov should have quite a few fans among bourgeois Europeans, at least not any less than other authors from the same era like Jane Austen which is known worldwide.

    I believe Russia has quite a few decent high end fashion designers. Their stuff should be promoted worldwide.

    VK, Yandex, and Telegram can definitely be improved and refined to go head-to-head against the Silicon Valley giants.

    Once the cultural and environmental basis for a Russophile fanbase in Europe has been created, especially among bourgeois, expect not only large scale easing of sanctions, but also attract Western expertise to build homegrown heavy industry and high-fashion icons.

    Russia still produces some very good music (especially in hip hop

    Come, sweet asteroid of death. Destroy this world. The sooner the better.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
  175. @German_reader

    This is no reason for alarm.
     
    Are all Swedes as painfully naive as you?

    I'll summarize some of the positions Talha has taken in the past:

    - hopes for the Islamization of Europe and the US.
    - thinks the rollback of secularism in the Islamic world over the past few decades is just wonderful, and that people like the truly vile Erdogan are good champions of Islam.
    - would like laws barring Muslim women from marrying non-Muslims.
    - has openly stated that his ideal society is some kind of Islamic state where "blasphemy" will be punished (iirc he admitted the death penalty might be too harsh, and public flogging and exile for repeat offenders might suffice...I wonder though where blasphemers could be exiled to once Islam dominates the entire globe...maybe Antarctica?).
    His enthusiasm for the millet system of the Ottoman empire doesn't inspire confidence either.
    - first reaction when he hears about something like the Rohingya issue in Burma isn't a call for sanctions, UN investigation etc., but no, it's a call for armed struggle in the support of his "brothers".

    Talha isn't a Westernized or semi-Westernized Muslim who believes a little bit in God, he is (and has admitted as much in the past) at least a soft Islamist who wants society structured along Islamic lines. We've seen in societies like Algeria or Turkey where this eventually leads to.
    I don't intend to bully Talha away from here (his comments are quite educational after all...if one takes the trouble to read them closely), but I won't refrain from stating that I find the agenda of people like him profoundly noxious.


    What I see around me here in Sweden is zero interest from ethnic Swedes in converting to Islam but a good few sons and daughters of Muslim parents taking on our atheist way of life, with drugs, booze and one-night stands.
     
    That certainly happens, but on the other hand you've also got the phenomenon that the 3rd or even 4th generation of Muslims in Europe is at least in part actually more religious than their parents and grandparents were. It's not clear imo that secularization and Westernization will prevail.
    Regarding conversion to Islam, I agree, not likely to be a serious issue...but tell that to Talha, it's him who always goes on about how Europeans will convert to Islam (because it's Allah's will or whatever).

    Talha is an Islamist, though.

    I don’t believe average people of Muslim background, are all having exactly the scary Islamist views like Talha.

    In real life, only people I have met from Muslim countries, even never said anything about Islam or religion.

    (And I’m not fan of Islamism at all, but in real life it’s not like people would know this).

    • Replies: @iffen
    Concentrate, D., concentrate on a subject or area. You likely could come up with something that would help us all if you did that.
    , @iffen
    I don’t believe average people of Muslim background, are all having exactly the scary Islamist views like Talha.

    If this was true there likely would not be an Islam problem for the West.

    "scary"

    Really.

  176. @German_reader

    This is no reason for alarm.
     
    Are all Swedes as painfully naive as you?

    I'll summarize some of the positions Talha has taken in the past:

    - hopes for the Islamization of Europe and the US.
    - thinks the rollback of secularism in the Islamic world over the past few decades is just wonderful, and that people like the truly vile Erdogan are good champions of Islam.
    - would like laws barring Muslim women from marrying non-Muslims.
    - has openly stated that his ideal society is some kind of Islamic state where "blasphemy" will be punished (iirc he admitted the death penalty might be too harsh, and public flogging and exile for repeat offenders might suffice...I wonder though where blasphemers could be exiled to once Islam dominates the entire globe...maybe Antarctica?).
    His enthusiasm for the millet system of the Ottoman empire doesn't inspire confidence either.
    - first reaction when he hears about something like the Rohingya issue in Burma isn't a call for sanctions, UN investigation etc., but no, it's a call for armed struggle in the support of his "brothers".

    Talha isn't a Westernized or semi-Westernized Muslim who believes a little bit in God, he is (and has admitted as much in the past) at least a soft Islamist who wants society structured along Islamic lines. We've seen in societies like Algeria or Turkey where this eventually leads to.
    I don't intend to bully Talha away from here (his comments are quite educational after all...if one takes the trouble to read them closely), but I won't refrain from stating that I find the agenda of people like him profoundly noxious.


    What I see around me here in Sweden is zero interest from ethnic Swedes in converting to Islam but a good few sons and daughters of Muslim parents taking on our atheist way of life, with drugs, booze and one-night stands.
     
    That certainly happens, but on the other hand you've also got the phenomenon that the 3rd or even 4th generation of Muslims in Europe is at least in part actually more religious than their parents and grandparents were. It's not clear imo that secularization and Westernization will prevail.
    Regarding conversion to Islam, I agree, not likely to be a serious issue...but tell that to Talha, it's him who always goes on about how Europeans will convert to Islam (because it's Allah's will or whatever).

    Talha isn’t a Westernized or semi-Westernized Muslim who believes a little bit in God,

    This is nutty, it doesn’t make sense.

  177. @Swedish Family

    Food: I can see Western SWPLs pick up on stuff like borscht, blini, and beef stroganoff. SWPLize these foods and mass export them to the West (and the East)
     
    To add to that. There is a very popular Pelmeni "chain" (they only have two stores so far) in Riga named Pelmeni XL (https://www.xlpelmeni.lv/) that I always thought would be a winner if introduced in other countries. There is also the slightly more upscale The Varenik chain in Ukraine, which more than holds its own against "proper" Ukrainian restaurants (the most central one in Kiev is at the food court on the top floor of the Gulliver mall). I also think proper pirozhki, straight from the oven, would be a surefire SWPL favorite. And some of the famous soups to go with those.

    Russian ballet is already famous worldwide. Instead of promoting just the military, Russia can promote that too for civilian consumption. This includes other high culture such as classical music and artists for bourgeois consumption (who are still very important to win the hearts and minds of, as they wield outsized power)
     
    Russia is already a superpower for all western Europeans who enjoy classical music, ballet and opera, so no real need for improvement there, I think.

    Literature: Authors like Tolstoy and Chekhov should have quite a few fans among bourgeois Europeans, at least not any less than other authors from the same era like Jane Austen which is known worldwide.
     
    Same here. Russian literature is probably the second-most read foreign literature in Sweden after English (French literature might have it beaten by a hair, but I doubt it).

    What is needed is modern Russian culture. For the typical idea among middle-class people, especially older ones, is that Russian culture is all museums and Dead White Males.

    True. At least people in Sweden can think of the museums like the Hermitage when thinking of Russia.

    But in the US? Its significantly worse. People just think of the country as a cold, dark, decaying Sovok dump where nothing works properly, with an aggressive military and oil as its only export. This is clearly not true.

    Food and entertainment should be Russia’s foot in the door to completely change that.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don't see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.

    It is too bland for widespread acceptance I think.

    What about Russian vodka. Is it significantly better than Grey Goose and the like?
  178. @Dmitry
    Talha is an Islamist, though.

    I don't believe average people of Muslim background, are all having exactly the scary Islamist views like Talha.

    In real life, only people I have met from Muslim countries, even never said anything about Islam or religion.

    (And I'm not fan of Islamism at all, but in real life it's not like people would know this).

    Concentrate, D., concentrate on a subject or area. You likely could come up with something that would help us all if you did that.

  179. @AaronB
    Utu, before this is over you will be a Hasid living in Boro Park, dancing on the Sabbath, a blissful grin on your face, your morbid gloom a distant memory.

    Don't you know we become the thing we fight, utu?

    But that is an interesting book I shall have to look into it.

    I do not fight Hasids. I want all Jews become Hasids. Rabbi Yakov Shapiro is my man.

    Check out The Wandering Jew by Wat I linked above.

  180. @Swedish Family

    Food: I can see Western SWPLs pick up on stuff like borscht, blini, and beef stroganoff. SWPLize these foods and mass export them to the West (and the East)
     
    To add to that. There is a very popular Pelmeni "chain" (they only have two stores so far) in Riga named Pelmeni XL (https://www.xlpelmeni.lv/) that I always thought would be a winner if introduced in other countries. There is also the slightly more upscale The Varenik chain in Ukraine, which more than holds its own against "proper" Ukrainian restaurants (the most central one in Kiev is at the food court on the top floor of the Gulliver mall). I also think proper pirozhki, straight from the oven, would be a surefire SWPL favorite. And some of the famous soups to go with those.

    Russian ballet is already famous worldwide. Instead of promoting just the military, Russia can promote that too for civilian consumption. This includes other high culture such as classical music and artists for bourgeois consumption (who are still very important to win the hearts and minds of, as they wield outsized power)
     
    Russia is already a superpower for all western Europeans who enjoy classical music, ballet and opera, so no real need for improvement there, I think.

    Literature: Authors like Tolstoy and Chekhov should have quite a few fans among bourgeois Europeans, at least not any less than other authors from the same era like Jane Austen which is known worldwide.
     
    Same here. Russian literature is probably the second-most read foreign literature in Sweden after English (French literature might have it beaten by a hair, but I doubt it).

    What is needed is modern Russian culture. For the typical idea among middle-class people, especially older ones, is that Russian culture is all museums and Dead White Males.

    You’re right. Piroshky Piroshky is one of the most popular eateries in Seattle, one of the world’s SWPLiest cities. This could be a hit if someone was to commercialize it right.

    • Replies: @utu
    Paul's Pel'meni. in Madison, WI
    , @Anonymous
    I don't see a bakery getting widespread acceptance as it goes against too many SWPL trends such as having gluten and having carbs.

    Russian food seems best suited for really cold places as a comfort food, not something SWPL can get behind.
  181. @iffen
    Spain combines a very safe and liberal atmosphere – people smoking openly cannabis everywhere, brothels on many streets, and casinos in centers of larger cities.

    Fuck the Garden of Eden.

    Spain is closer to paradise than most countries. Cheaper beer and (I’m pretty sure) more cheap cannabis, than anywhere in Western Europe.

    But then, there is real generational warfare, where older people are dominating the jobs with good salaries, and fewer and fewer opportunities for young people (regardless whether they are even engineers and scientists), who are many of them leaving the country.

    Also a lot of young people, looks like they are still in 1980s, or early 1990s. Even a lot of young people dressing and acting like they are early 1990s fans of Nirvana .

    This man (who sells Russian beer), was telling us he emigrated to Spain (Basque country) 20 years ago, exactly because he is a fan of their 1980s punk music. Not sure how this story was possible – but it’s apparently in North Spain a world center of 1980s punk music.

  182. @Anatoly Karlin
    You're right. Piroshky Piroshky is one of the most popular eateries in Seattle, one of the world's SWPLiest cities. This could be a hit if someone was to commercialize it right.

    Paul’s Pel’meni. in Madison, WI

  183. @Mitleser
    Macron's new bodyguards?

    https://i.redd.it/zu1dkpia4fp11.png


    The Merkel loyalist and the Turkish conquerer

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoQ_QonW0AAzBqP.jpg

    What the hell is this? And yes, Talha and all his ilk should be deported. His ‘civilised’ tone is so much more irritating than honest Islamists.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Even for the French-speaking Africans, Putin is considered cooler than Macron.

    https://youtu.be/pWcIFYIO9lw?t=23s

    , @iffen
    Who the F are you? Why don't we deport you instead?

    I don't know why I get diverted into defending Jews and Muslims.
  184. @Dmitry
    Talha is an Islamist, though.

    I don't believe average people of Muslim background, are all having exactly the scary Islamist views like Talha.

    In real life, only people I have met from Muslim countries, even never said anything about Islam or religion.

    (And I'm not fan of Islamism at all, but in real life it's not like people would know this).

    I don’t believe average people of Muslim background, are all having exactly the scary Islamist views like Talha.

    If this was true there likely would not be an Islam problem for the West.

    “scary”

    Really.

  185. @Yevardian
    What the hell is this? And yes, Talha and all his ilk should be deported. His 'civilised' tone is so much more irritating than honest Islamists.

    Even for the French-speaking Africans, Putin is considered cooler than Macron.

  186. @Yevardian
    What the hell is this? And yes, Talha and all his ilk should be deported. His 'civilised' tone is so much more irritating than honest Islamists.

    Who the F are you? Why don’t we deport you instead?

    I don’t know why I get diverted into defending Jews and Muslims.

  187. @AaronB
    Who wants to bet German Reader will end up converting to Islam :)

    And utu to Judaism lol.

    And Daniel Chieh will start drinking and taking drugs and learn how to enjoy his wetware and stop abusing women.

    The world cracks me up :)

    Leave the women I’ve known out of your deranged rambles. My wife would almost certainly not be alive today if she hadn’t met me, and she’s suffered quite enough, thanks.

  188. @German_reader

    Salma Hayek – half Arab
    Shakira – half Arab
     
    Arab in that case means Lebanese Christian. I've never been to the Mideast (why should I...it's coming to me anyway, lol), but my impression is that Lebanese Christians are often fairly light types of the Mediterranean kind.
    To be blunt, Sunni Arabs often seem to be a lot darker (sometimes downright Negroid).
    Anyway, I'm not that keen on discussing physical types, but the Spaniard in your video, while not exactly Nordic-looking, wouldn't be obviously out of place in much of Europe imo.

    It is my impression that Middle Easterners have very varied skin tones, from swarthy dark brown to normal European white.

    Some of the white ones can pass as European, but the facial structure tends to be rather Middle Eastern.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    But significant proportion Spanish people, higher proportion in Southern Spain, are actually looking Middle Eastern.

    It's when you cross the border into France, where you have a clear majority of white people around you.

    This highly analogous with the Caucasuses.

    Armenian and Azerbaijani people are almost as dark as Moroccans and Algerians (of course Azerbaijan is far more civilized than any Arab country). But in Georgia, you have already a mix of dark and light people - which is similar ratio to Southern Spain.

    Maybe one day, Georgia will also reach the social and civilizational level of Spain (perhaps in the late 21st century).

  189. @AaronB
    Utu, before this is over you will be a Hasid living in Boro Park, dancing on the Sabbath, a blissful grin on your face, your morbid gloom a distant memory.

    Don't you know we become the thing we fight, utu?

    But that is an interesting book I shall have to look into it.

    Don’t you know we become the thing we fight

    So why are you fighting us?

  190. I think Talha is a relatively civilised person, much nicer than the degenerate ghetto thugs I am used to.

    Even his Islamist promotion, while at times too much, is relatively tolerable.

    However, it is clear that he either doesn’t comprehend Christianity beyond a superficial level, or he is adopting a certain philosophical viewpoint because he knows it doesn’t threaten his cause.

    In the end it doesn’t really matter, the world-denying semites need to either be eviscerated or expelled from our lands.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    the world-denying semites
     
    How is Islam "world-denying"? When I think of "world-denying" people, I think of Christian monks who have given up all their worldly possessions and live secluded in their monastery...if anything, Christianity is the most "world-denying" of the monotheistic religions imo.
    The problem with Muslims is rather that they're obsessed with power, control and domination. They also allow some really decadent (not just from a Christian, but even from a Greco-Roman perspective) cultural practices like polygamy. It would be better if they were a bit more world-denying imo.
  191. @Hyperborean
    I think Talha is a relatively civilised person, much nicer than the degenerate ghetto thugs I am used to.

    Even his Islamist promotion, while at times too much, is relatively tolerable.

    However, it is clear that he either doesn't comprehend Christianity beyond a superficial level, or he is adopting a certain philosophical viewpoint because he knows it doesn't threaten his cause.

    In the end it doesn't really matter, the world-denying semites need to either be eviscerated or expelled from our lands.

    the world-denying semites

    How is Islam “world-denying”? When I think of “world-denying” people, I think of Christian monks who have given up all their worldly possessions and live secluded in their monastery…if anything, Christianity is the most “world-denying” of the monotheistic religions imo.
    The problem with Muslims is rather that they’re obsessed with power, control and domination. They also allow some really decadent (not just from a Christian, but even from a Greco-Roman perspective) cultural practices like polygamy. It would be better if they were a bit more world-denying imo.

    • Replies: @S3
    "Greco-Roman perspective"

    Huh? Didn't Alexander the Great's father take seven wives or something?
  192. @Swedish Family

    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
    Talha has also stated many times that he hopes for the Islamization of Europe (as is of course his duty as a devout Muslim) – or rather, that he is certain it will eventually happen. That attitude is the reason why there can at best be a truce with Muslims, genuine dialogue with mutual respect is impossible.
     
    I still think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Of course a devout Muslim would want to see his faith spread far and wide. This is no reason for alarm.

    And even if you do find that idea frightening, there is the question of how open Christian and atheist Europeans truly are to the Muslim way of life. What I see around me here in Sweden is zero interest from ethnic Swedes in converting to Islam but a good few sons and daughters of Muslim parents taking on our atheist way of life, with drugs, booze and one-night stands. If anything, then, Talha is the one who should grieve, since it's he who is losing his brothers in faith to atheism.

    Swedes may have zero interest in Islam, but rest assured Islam is interested in you. What is going to happen, or rather what has already happened is that Islam creates parallel societies that are in open conflict with non-Muslim ones and even “bad” Muslim (anyone outside Sunni orthodoxy). Given sufficient concentration, Muslims are going to organically organize into political agitation groups (small numbers) or sectarian mobs (large numbers) because the freedom of religion in Western societies essentially functions as unilateral religious disarmament. Considering the pure levels of aggression exercised by the African and Middle Eastern ethnies that have embraced Islam, it doesn’t take particularly large numbers to get trouble

    The early Modern anti-liberals had a clear idea of the problems with the Jews and this applies doubly so to the Muslims.

    The Christian state knows only privileges. In this state, the Jew has the privilege of being a Jew. As a Jew, he has rights which the Christians do not have. Why should he want rights which he does not have, but which the Christians enjoy?

    In wanting to be emancipated from the Christian state, the Jew is demanding that the Christian state should give up its religious prejudice. Does he, the Jew, give up his religious prejudice? Has he, then, the right to demand that someone else should renounce his religion?

    Simply replace all instances of Christian with Secular and Jews with Muslims and you get to the heart of the problem. The Muslims take strategic and opportunistic advantage of the secular nature of Western states to advance his tribals interests, but he in no way surrenders his own religious prejudices, but even goes so far as to double down on them. The simpel truth that Western liberals are unwilling to acknowledge is that the majority of Muslims often secretly and but more usually openly hold non Muslims in contempt. You are Kuffar, and the the more you abase yourself to accomodate your societies to account for their social mores, they more they will despise you for your weakness and the more they will demand.

    • Replies: @Talha
    This is basically an explication of Popper’s Paradox...with some embellishments. The issues are - as you pointed out - systemic, perhaps the underlying reason why the response to things seems to be bipolar. Still never figured out why the Europeans never really figured out an effective dhimmi/millet system. The approach seems to be all or nothing. Minus the Hapsburgs, they actually started one off but it didn’t last long for obvious reasons. Actually, Russia also gets credit for a reasonable system of negotiated powers since Empress Catherine (minus the obvious years).

    Peace.
    , @gmachine1729
    Off topic, but 国庆节快乐! Also, you're welcome to read my latest article on Zhihu: https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/45801522.
  193. @Duke of Qin
    Swedes may have zero interest in Islam, but rest assured Islam is interested in you. What is going to happen, or rather what has already happened is that Islam creates parallel societies that are in open conflict with non-Muslim ones and even "bad" Muslim (anyone outside Sunni orthodoxy). Given sufficient concentration, Muslims are going to organically organize into political agitation groups (small numbers) or sectarian mobs (large numbers) because the freedom of religion in Western societies essentially functions as unilateral religious disarmament. Considering the pure levels of aggression exercised by the African and Middle Eastern ethnies that have embraced Islam, it doesn't take particularly large numbers to get trouble

    The early Modern anti-liberals had a clear idea of the problems with the Jews and this applies doubly so to the Muslims.

    The Christian state knows only privileges. In this state, the Jew has the privilege of being a Jew. As a Jew, he has rights which the Christians do not have. Why should he want rights which he does not have, but which the Christians enjoy?

    In wanting to be emancipated from the Christian state, the Jew is demanding that the Christian state should give up its religious prejudice. Does he, the Jew, give up his religious prejudice? Has he, then, the right to demand that someone else should renounce his religion?
     
    Simply replace all instances of Christian with Secular and Jews with Muslims and you get to the heart of the problem. The Muslims take strategic and opportunistic advantage of the secular nature of Western states to advance his tribals interests, but he in no way surrenders his own religious prejudices, but even goes so far as to double down on them. The simpel truth that Western liberals are unwilling to acknowledge is that the majority of Muslims often secretly and but more usually openly hold non Muslims in contempt. You are Kuffar, and the the more you abase yourself to accomodate your societies to account for their social mores, they more they will despise you for your weakness and the more they will demand.

    This is basically an explication of Popper’s Paradox…with some embellishments. The issues are – as you pointed out – systemic, perhaps the underlying reason why the response to things seems to be bipolar. Still never figured out why the Europeans never really figured out an effective dhimmi/millet system. The approach seems to be all or nothing. Minus the Hapsburgs, they actually started one off but it didn’t last long for obvious reasons. Actually, Russia also gets credit for a reasonable system of negotiated powers since Empress Catherine (minus the obvious years).

    Peace.

  194. @AquariusAnon
    True. At least people in Sweden can think of the museums like the Hermitage when thinking of Russia.

    But in the US? Its significantly worse. People just think of the country as a cold, dark, decaying Sovok dump where nothing works properly, with an aggressive military and oil as its only export. This is clearly not true.

    Food and entertainment should be Russia's foot in the door to completely change that.

    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don’t see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.

    It is too bland for widespread acceptance I think.

    What about Russian vodka. Is it significantly better than Grey Goose and the like?

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    "Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide?"

    Russian food is actually quite popular in Hong Kong, at least a version of it that is. In Hong Kong there is a style of restaurants called 'Soy Sauce Western' restaurants that serves Western food catered to local taste. Basically it is Panda Express in reverse. And it almost always contains a choice of soup between Russian Borscht or cream corn soup.

    https://zolimacitymag.com/why-do-hong-kong-restaurants-serve-borscht-the-overlooked-history-of-russian-hong-kong/

    , @Daniel Chieh
    Pickled foods aren't bland, though. And from an SWPL standpoint, they are probiotic friendly so they would technically be "healthy." Belvedere Vodka is the best, IMO.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    Sovok food is bland (or Georgian). Russian food is highly varied and sophisticated.

    The Scandinavians have made a Michelin-certified haute cuisine out of kelp and meatballs for crying out loud.
    , @utu
    On popular level Russian food only may lack refinement in presentation. But this will improve. For me the presentation is secondary. While I appreciate Japanese esthetics this is not the essence of food. Both nouvelle cuisine and fusion cuisine were influence by Japanese esthetics. But if you look how French dishes were prepared and presented in 19 and 20 century there was no difference from upper class Russian presentation. All European cuisines of upper classes was deeply influenced by French cuisine. Italians may object but only because their pride makes them irrational. Italian ciabatta was invented in 1982 to respond to the popularity of French baguette in Italy. But it is also true that Italian cooking influenced the French. The story goes that the turning point for the French high class cooking was when Catherine de' Medici married King Henry II of France.

    I do not know Russian food as much as I wish I did but all my experiences were very good and there was nothing that I did not like.

    Russian cuisine can stand on its own just like German, Polish, Hungarian and Scandinavian cuisines can. But turning it to something popular for the plebeian masses that you seem to represent is another story. What are the virtues of hamburgers and hot dogs from fast foods? What suppose to computer with them? Blini and caviar? Could you and your masses handle it?

    Most important part is that Russians will keep eating Russian foods and be proud of it while refining it and incorporating foreign influences but not mindlessly and be more reluctant to fall for novelties from broad.

    This evolutionary process. We develop new habits and tastes. Unfortunately there is also a Gresham's law that bad money drives out good money. It would be good if American fast foods like Subways, Taco Bell, and McDonald that produce extremely crappy foods were somehow eliminated and replaced with more wholesome food.
    , @AP

    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don’t see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.
     
    I've noticed that Puerto Ricans and Cubans love olivye but Westerners won't touch it. I can't stand it either.

    Otherwise it would seem to be good comfort food. A problem may be that the type of Westerner who likes exotic food equates exotic with spicy, and Russian food isn't spicy at all.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Vodka is a colorless, flavorless grain neutral spirit by definition. The only question is whether or not it is sufficiently pure not to be obscured by off notes (which will obscure your brain the next day). Generally speaking all vodka that has been distilled thrice or more is identical. Some new research shows that there are apparently subtle differences in molecular structure between different vodkas, but no doubt it takes a super taster to notice such tiny distinctions.

    Grey Goose, incidentally, is a great exemplar of this phenomenon--a true triumph of marketing.

    It was invented by Sidney Frank, an American Jew who was inspired by the success of Absolut, which at that time was the most expensive vodka generally available. Frank's idea was to charge a price 50% higher than Absolut, produce the vodka in France (a country which had never in its history previously produced vodka), and give it a fancy name (he decided on combining a color with a bird).

    Frank found some cognac distillers with idle capacity in the off season and with his wife's help settled on Grey Goose. Even "Grey" was deliberate as that is a British spelling and is incorrect in America. The rest is history.

    In other words if you purchase Grey Goose you are a total fool. Reportedly Frank was toying with the idea of a super premium rum product to be named "White Pelican" when he died. I recommend purchasing reasonably priced vodka that advertises itself as quintuple distilled. Tito's and Stolichnaya both fit the bill.
  195. @Anatoly Karlin
    You're right. Piroshky Piroshky is one of the most popular eateries in Seattle, one of the world's SWPLiest cities. This could be a hit if someone was to commercialize it right.

    I don’t see a bakery getting widespread acceptance as it goes against too many SWPL trends such as having gluten and having carbs.

    Russian food seems best suited for really cold places as a comfort food, not something SWPL can get behind.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    SWPLs (or the people who make to them) have made a religion out of SANDWICHES. Not an issue.
    , @Ali Choudhury
    Huh? Everyone loves bakeries.
  196. Mr. Karlin – think you’d like this:

    Amusingly, a Russian youtube channel(Istorium.TV) apparently wanted to translate this for a Russian audience.

  197. @Anonymous
    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don't see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.

    It is too bland for widespread acceptance I think.

    What about Russian vodka. Is it significantly better than Grey Goose and the like?

    “Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide?”

    Russian food is actually quite popular in Hong Kong, at least a version of it that is. In Hong Kong there is a style of restaurants called ‘Soy Sauce Western’ restaurants that serves Western food catered to local taste. Basically it is Panda Express in reverse. And it almost always contains a choice of soup between Russian Borscht or cream corn soup.

    https://zolimacitymag.com/why-do-hong-kong-restaurants-serve-borscht-the-overlooked-history-of-russian-hong-kong/

  198. @Anonymous
    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don't see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.

    It is too bland for widespread acceptance I think.

    What about Russian vodka. Is it significantly better than Grey Goose and the like?

    Pickled foods aren’t bland, though. And from an SWPL standpoint, they are probiotic friendly so they would technically be “healthy.” Belvedere Vodka is the best, IMO.

  199. My, my – this has basically become an open thread…on Talha!

    Let’s see…to commence…

    Talha is an Islamist, though.

    I most certainly am not. I am an Orthodox Sunni (Sufi) Muslim and I have plenty of issues with the Islamist methodology (like those of the Brotherhood). A few important ones being; 1) their melding of the nation-state model with the Shariah (which is quite scary) and 2) putting the cart before the horse – the best approach is to reform the hearts and minds of the people, the rules for society will naturally follow and change on their own instead of forcing Shariah down the throats of a population that simply doesn’t appreciate it..

    - hopes for the Islamization of

    …the world actually. Salvation is open to all, West and East.

    - thinks the rollback of secularism in the Islamic world over the past few decades is just wonderful

    Agreed.

    that people like the truly vile Erdogan are good champions of Islam.

    Nope, never been an Erdogan fanboi – he’s a mixed bag, like most politicians.

    - would like laws barring Muslim women from marrying non-Muslims.

    So would Thor.

    where “blasphemy” will be punished

    I empathize with Western atheists on this; the struggle to have “muh blasphemy” recognized as a human right was a hard fought battle.

    public flogging and exile for repeat offenders might suffice

    Yeah, some public don’t get the initial message from fines and jail time. Again, I totally get why this is a huge deal for some people – the loss of the right to piss on a cross or use a Qur’an as toilet paper is likely going to cause a rise in the suicide rate.

    His enthusiasm for the millet system

    Big time, much better model for accommodating the mutual sharing of space by peoples with rival or conflicting world views.

    Rohingya issue

    The UN had already let everyone know what was going on. I didn’t ask for any international laws to be violated. I simply don’t see the need to be apologetic about Muslim volunteers setting up a safety cordon and putting the fear of God into armed soldiers that are driving out pencil-thin, dirt-poor villagers and burning down their homes. I certainly wouldn’t have minded if a few thousand Christian volunteers from the West would have come into Iraq to help deal with Daesh and keep them from going postal on local Christians – why didn’t they?

    I don’t intend to bully Talha away from here

    Don’t worry none – usually you are less personal. I’ve had to deal with far worse. Par for the course really on a forum with Alt-Right, White Nationalist (and even Hitler fanbois) voices. I don’t expect this to be friendly to a Muslim. Part of the reason I came here is to see what beefs people have with Islam so that I have a better understanding and can prepare my children. If either Mr. Karlin or Mr. Unz ask me to leave, I will without fuss.

    it’s him who always goes on about how Europeans will convert to Islam

    If one is to take Islamic foundational texts seriously, it is simply part of belief that mankind will eventually enter the fold of Islam; it can take 50, 500 or 50,000 years – but that’s just how this train rolls…despite the best efforts of Muslims to screw it up.

    Talha and all his ilk should be deported.

    Totally fine, in fact I have done people the service of outlining a specific game plan as to how to exactly get this done in the US. Shouting over the internet is not one of the steps. If my fellow citizens decide to change the laws to deport me, hey – that’s how a democracy works.

    he is adopting a certain philosophical viewpoint because he knows it doesn’t threaten his cause.

    Actually one should read at least the introduction of the book by Prof. Robert P. George (a Catholic legal theorist and philosopher) – a preview of the introduction is available at Amazon, the man argues from within the Catholic natural-law framework:

    https://www.amazon.com/Making-Men-Moral-Liberties-Paperbacks/dp/0198260245

    His ‘civilised’ tone is so much more irritating

    I suppose it would make people feel more comfortable about their presumptions if I threw a few F-bombs here and there. Also, I really think people ought to look into this “IGNORE COMMENTER” thing, Mr. Unz did us all a favor by building it.

    “scary” – Really.

    LOL! Yeah, I mean advocating semi-autonomous regions for non-Muslims to govern their own jurisdictions and a parallel judicial system so Muslims don’t step on their toes and vice-versa sounds like I’m just waiting to eat their children.

    Look guys, there is no secret plan, there is no “Protocols of the Elders of Makkah” going on here. There are two main issues at work:
    1) The current Western political framework has multiple systemic issues that make society vulnerable to take over – right now the take over is being attempted by the poz.
    2) Based on the advice of my teachers, the secret in this day and age is that there is no struggle against Muslims, or Christians or atheists or anybody else really. The current struggle is against oneself. This age has made it easy for anyone to completely distract or lose themselves in anything they want, any dysfunctional lifestyle you want to get into – you are welcome to do it and it is easily accessible. The great human culling is at hand; the ones that simply do what human beings have been naturally doing for centuries will be the ones left standing, because everyone else was too busy prioritizing the wrong things in life and thus forfeit, not because they had some super secret plan to take over society. It’s actually not that complicated, but this age has made it so.

    I had a nice exchange with Thor on the other thread; he agreed with me about how men should be approaching women for marriage, but he simply doesn’t know what to do to change what he is used to doing and doesn’t know how to turn it around in the next generation.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Actually one should read at least the introduction of the book by Prof. Robert P. George (a Catholic legal theorist and philosopher) – a preview of the introduction is available at Amazon, the man argues from within the Catholic natural-law framework:
     
    Why? Aside from this vague snippet: George closes with a sketch of a "pluralistic perfectionist" theory of civil liberties and public morality, showing that it is fully compatible with a defense of morals legislation. I don’t see how this is relevant.

    My point was that your viewpoint about how Catholics and other Christians should just 'trust their own doctrine' is unrealistic and you have the luxury of adopting this position because ultimately it has no effect on you.

    We have already had this debate in Europe over the 19th century and whatever future Christians may or may not have with nationalists in power, they have no future with Liberal Decompositionists, and submitting to Saracens is a fool's game.

    And really, many priests are now merely zampolits with less power, many of whom are not even sure whether God exists!


    But this is not the case, according to a poll of Anglican clergy which found that as many as 16 per cent are unclear about God and two per cent think it is no more than a human construct.

     

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/survey-finds-2-of-anglican-priests-are-not-believers-9821899.html

    Siding with their enemies and denouncing nationalists today like they denounced Maurras is futile and won't end well.


    You seem like a decent man and remind me of the old well-dressed and well-mannered Turkish or Kurdish couples I used to sometimes see where I lived, but talking to you there are times like this when I notice how alien your mindset is.

  200. Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion instead, being based on worship of purity of the blood and white person hood? Maybe the reason why neoliberalism is so successful is that it basically acts as a quasi religion in some aspects.

    • Replies: @Talha

    purity of the blood and white person hood?
     
    So...Judaism for Gentiles...correct?

    neoliberalism is so successful is that it basically acts as a quasi religion in some aspe

     

    Bingo!!!

    Peace.

    , @Hyperborean

    Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion instead, being based on worship of purity of the blood and white person hood?
     
    What do you think? I used to hate that 'think for yourself' slogan, but I kind of understand it now.

    If you think HBDism's dependency on rationality makes it hard to appeal to people*, why don't you read some more traditional folkish writers?

    *If this is your argument, then I would actually agree with you to a point, reading HBD tracts that try to create a sense of nationalism around high IQ or certain genes can be a bit dull, like reading Libertarian or Objectivist tracts. Duginism is a dead-end but I can understand why certain people would be attracted to it.

    , @neutral

    Maybe the reason why neoliberalism is so successful
     
    It happened because of a some freak historical occurrences in history. White people (mostly Aryans) found a continent that they took from the natives relatively easy, it also happened to be rich in resources, they started to delude themselves that their constitution is was produced their magical dirt that made them powerful (when it was race and natural resources). This magic dirt ideology was used by the jews to seize power, they then caused Europe to be engulfed by two big wars that made them all powerful.

    Eventually having an inferior people as your majority population will come to a reckoning, neoliberalism will end.
    , @German_reader

    Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion
     
    Of course, in some ways Nazism tried to reproduce the structure of traditional religions (e.g. Hitler as a redeemer figure for the German nation, the sacred martyrs of the cause like Horst Wessel), at least in part it was a religion for people who couldn't believe in the old religion anymore. But it's not exactly an encouraging precedent.
  201. @Nznz
    Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion instead, being based on worship of purity of the blood and white person hood? Maybe the reason why neoliberalism is so successful is that it basically acts as a quasi religion in some aspects.

    purity of the blood and white person hood?

    So…Judaism for Gentiles…correct?

    neoliberalism is so successful is that it basically acts as a quasi religion in some aspe

    Bingo!!!

    Peace.

  202. @Anonymous
    I don't see a bakery getting widespread acceptance as it goes against too many SWPL trends such as having gluten and having carbs.

    Russian food seems best suited for really cold places as a comfort food, not something SWPL can get behind.

    SWPLs (or the people who make to them) have made a religion out of SANDWICHES. Not an issue.

  203. @Anonymous
    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don't see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.

    It is too bland for widespread acceptance I think.

    What about Russian vodka. Is it significantly better than Grey Goose and the like?

    Sovok food is bland (or Georgian). Russian food is highly varied and sophisticated.

    The Scandinavians have made a Michelin-certified haute cuisine out of kelp and meatballs for crying out loud.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    French food and Japanese food is highly varied and sophisticated. You could say the same about many other cuisines such as Vietnamese and Thai food. I've never heard anyone say that about Russian cuisine, but I don't know anything about it since I have only ever had Borcht.

    If Russian food is so good, why doesn't Russia have any Michelin starred restaurants?
    , @AquariusAnon
    What are examples of Sovok food?

    In the case of Moscow, I guess Cafe Mu-Mu = Sovok, and Chekhov on Kuznetsky Most = Russian?
  204. @Anonymous
    I don't see a bakery getting widespread acceptance as it goes against too many SWPL trends such as having gluten and having carbs.

    Russian food seems best suited for really cold places as a comfort food, not something SWPL can get behind.

    Huh? Everyone loves bakeries.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Not in the west where people freak out about gluten and are to worried about what a carb will do to their keto diet.

    Bakeries are considered prole even though it is hand made and artisinal.

    To the liberal elite anything that can make you fat outweighs any other quality.
  205. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ali Choudhury
    Huh? Everyone loves bakeries.

    Not in the west where people freak out about gluten and are to worried about what a carb will do to their keto diet.

    Bakeries are considered prole even though it is hand made and artisinal.

    To the liberal elite anything that can make you fat outweighs any other quality.

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    I disagree, SWPLs love bakeries especially if they sell good coffee. Sliced white bread is seen as being for mouth-breathing proles hence the rage for sourdough bread.
    , @Anatoly Karlin
    How many people are on a keto diet? I doubt it's 1% of the population.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    LCHF diets peaked in popularity in the late 1990s. There have been small revivals thanks to the "paleo" movement (Mark Sisson, John Durant, Christ Masterjohn) and lately the success of Nina Teicholz and Ivor Cummins.

    SWPLs do not consider baking or grains to be prole. Instead they have introduced status gradations with concepts such as gluten-free, sprouted grains, ancestral grains, quasi-grains (e.g. quinoa), etc.

    The general momentum is currently against LCHF diets owing to the pernicious influence of vegans who are now promoting so-called "plant-based" diets (ignoring that Americans already get three-fifths of their calories from plants and the global figure is four-fifths). False research is also trotted out to make livestock rearing seem more environmentally damaging than it really is.
  206. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    Sovok food is bland (or Georgian). Russian food is highly varied and sophisticated.

    The Scandinavians have made a Michelin-certified haute cuisine out of kelp and meatballs for crying out loud.

    French food and Japanese food is highly varied and sophisticated. You could say the same about many other cuisines such as Vietnamese and Thai food. I’ve never heard anyone say that about Russian cuisine, but I don’t know anything about it since I have only ever had Borcht.

    If Russian food is so good, why doesn’t Russia have any Michelin starred restaurants?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    If Russian food is so good, why doesn’t Russia have any Michelin starred restaurants?
     
    Communism can ruin any national cuisine.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    The Michelin Guide is geographically biased (transparently so--it's not some insiduous plot). Many places simply aren't covered by it, or are covered in limited detail (e.g. they only do four cities in all of North America).

    I am sure that Moscow and St. Petersburg have many world-class restaurants, though perhaps the cuisine isn't Russian.

    But I bet places like Vladivostok, Chelyabinsk, etc. don't have a single restaurant that's actually good. Lyons on the other had, which is not very large, has more like fifty.
  207. @Talha
    My, my - this has basically become an open thread...on Talha!

    Let's see...to commence...


    Talha is an Islamist, though.
     
    I most certainly am not. I am an Orthodox Sunni (Sufi) Muslim and I have plenty of issues with the Islamist methodology (like those of the Brotherhood). A few important ones being; 1) their melding of the nation-state model with the Shariah (which is quite scary) and 2) putting the cart before the horse - the best approach is to reform the hearts and minds of the people, the rules for society will naturally follow and change on their own instead of forcing Shariah down the throats of a population that simply doesn't appreciate it..

    - hopes for the Islamization of
     
    ...the world actually. Salvation is open to all, West and East.

    - thinks the rollback of secularism in the Islamic world over the past few decades is just wonderful
     
    Agreed.

    that people like the truly vile Erdogan are good champions of Islam.
     
    Nope, never been an Erdogan fanboi - he's a mixed bag, like most politicians.

    - would like laws barring Muslim women from marrying non-Muslims.
     
    So would Thor.

    where “blasphemy” will be punished
     
    I empathize with Western atheists on this; the struggle to have "muh blasphemy" recognized as a human right was a hard fought battle.

    public flogging and exile for repeat offenders might suffice
     
    Yeah, some public don't get the initial message from fines and jail time. Again, I totally get why this is a huge deal for some people - the loss of the right to piss on a cross or use a Qur'an as toilet paper is likely going to cause a rise in the suicide rate.

    His enthusiasm for the millet system
     
    Big time, much better model for accommodating the mutual sharing of space by peoples with rival or conflicting world views.

    Rohingya issue
     
    The UN had already let everyone know what was going on. I didn't ask for any international laws to be violated. I simply don't see the need to be apologetic about Muslim volunteers setting up a safety cordon and putting the fear of God into armed soldiers that are driving out pencil-thin, dirt-poor villagers and burning down their homes. I certainly wouldn't have minded if a few thousand Christian volunteers from the West would have come into Iraq to help deal with Daesh and keep them from going postal on local Christians - why didn't they?

    I don’t intend to bully Talha away from here
     
    Don't worry none - usually you are less personal. I've had to deal with far worse. Par for the course really on a forum with Alt-Right, White Nationalist (and even Hitler fanbois) voices. I don't expect this to be friendly to a Muslim. Part of the reason I came here is to see what beefs people have with Islam so that I have a better understanding and can prepare my children. If either Mr. Karlin or Mr. Unz ask me to leave, I will without fuss.

    it’s him who always goes on about how Europeans will convert to Islam
     
    If one is to take Islamic foundational texts seriously, it is simply part of belief that mankind will eventually enter the fold of Islam; it can take 50, 500 or 50,000 years - but that's just how this train rolls...despite the best efforts of Muslims to screw it up.

    Talha and all his ilk should be deported.
     
    Totally fine, in fact I have done people the service of outlining a specific game plan as to how to exactly get this done in the US. Shouting over the internet is not one of the steps. If my fellow citizens decide to change the laws to deport me, hey - that's how a democracy works.

    he is adopting a certain philosophical viewpoint because he knows it doesn’t threaten his cause.
     
    Actually one should read at least the introduction of the book by Prof. Robert P. George (a Catholic legal theorist and philosopher) - a preview of the introduction is available at Amazon, the man argues from within the Catholic natural-law framework:
    https://www.amazon.com/Making-Men-Moral-Liberties-Paperbacks/dp/0198260245

    His ‘civilised’ tone is so much more irritating
     
    I suppose it would make people feel more comfortable about their presumptions if I threw a few F-bombs here and there. Also, I really think people ought to look into this "IGNORE COMMENTER" thing, Mr. Unz did us all a favor by building it.

    “scary” - Really.
     
    LOL! Yeah, I mean advocating semi-autonomous regions for non-Muslims to govern their own jurisdictions and a parallel judicial system so Muslims don't step on their toes and vice-versa sounds like I'm just waiting to eat their children.

    Look guys, there is no secret plan, there is no "Protocols of the Elders of Makkah" going on here. There are two main issues at work:
    1) The current Western political framework has multiple systemic issues that make society vulnerable to take over - right now the take over is being attempted by the poz.
    2) Based on the advice of my teachers, the secret in this day and age is that there is no struggle against Muslims, or Christians or atheists or anybody else really. The current struggle is against oneself. This age has made it easy for anyone to completely distract or lose themselves in anything they want, any dysfunctional lifestyle you want to get into - you are welcome to do it and it is easily accessible. The great human culling is at hand; the ones that simply do what human beings have been naturally doing for centuries will be the ones left standing, because everyone else was too busy prioritizing the wrong things in life and thus forfeit, not because they had some super secret plan to take over society. It's actually not that complicated, but this age has made it so.

    I had a nice exchange with Thor on the other thread; he agreed with me about how men should be approaching women for marriage, but he simply doesn't know what to do to change what he is used to doing and doesn't know how to turn it around in the next generation.

    Peace.

    Actually one should read at least the introduction of the book by Prof. Robert P. George (a Catholic legal theorist and philosopher) – a preview of the introduction is available at Amazon, the man argues from within the Catholic natural-law framework:

    Why? Aside from this vague snippet: George closes with a sketch of a “pluralistic perfectionist” theory of civil liberties and public morality, showing that it is fully compatible with a defense of morals legislation. I don’t see how this is relevant.

    My point was that your viewpoint about how Catholics and other Christians should just ‘trust their own doctrine’ is unrealistic and you have the luxury of adopting this position because ultimately it has no effect on you.

    We have already had this debate in Europe over the 19th century and whatever future Christians may or may not have with nationalists in power, they have no future with Liberal Decompositionists, and submitting to Saracens is a fool’s game.

    And really, many priests are now merely zampolits with less power, many of whom are not even sure whether God exists!

    But this is not the case, according to a poll of Anglican clergy which found that as many as 16 per cent are unclear about God and two per cent think it is no more than a human construct.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/survey-finds-2-of-anglican-priests-are-not-believers-9821899.html

    Siding with their enemies and denouncing nationalists today like they denounced Maurras is futile and won’t end well.

    You seem like a decent man and remind me of the old well-dressed and well-mannered Turkish or Kurdish couples I used to sometimes see where I lived, but talking to you there are times like this when I notice how alien your mindset is.

    • Replies: @Talha

    Catholics and other Christians should just ‘trust their own doctrine’ is unrealistic
     
    Well, that's really up to the Church - and I wasn't really speaking about other Christians because they don't have as intact a tradition as the Church (or the Orthodox).

    It seems your big beef with the Church is support fro immigration. Well, I simply don't see why the Church cannot borrow from its own pre-Vatican 2 positions on things like Islam, Judaism and a bunch of other issues. They can oppose Muslim immigration on religious grounds and that will naturally converge with ethno-nationalist interests. I don't see why (going back to my original point) they have to compromise any more with Caesar and think about splitting ecclesiastical authority when Caesar has already taken plenty of pounds of flesh.

    They may have concerns about what ethno-nationalism will lead to. European history is still pretty fresh in living memory up to and including things like the breaking apart of Yugoslavia, the current situation in Donbass and even concerns about, say, what would happen to Polish immigrants in Britain. So I simply don't see why the Church can't oppose immigration on its own terms in view of its own interests.

    Again, it's their call - not my religion.

    I notice how alien your mindset is
     
    Indeed, this is not a problem. The (post)modern world is quite puzzled about what to do about Islam and that's fine. The implications of things like the Singularity, transhumanism and other things seems fairly alien to me (and I suspect to even many Westerners of a few decades back). Either the rest of the world is going insane or we are.

    Peace.
  208. @Nznz
    Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion instead, being based on worship of purity of the blood and white person hood? Maybe the reason why neoliberalism is so successful is that it basically acts as a quasi religion in some aspects.

    Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion instead, being based on worship of purity of the blood and white person hood?

    What do you think? I used to hate that ‘think for yourself’ slogan, but I kind of understand it now.

    If you think HBDism’s dependency on rationality makes it hard to appeal to people*, why don’t you read some more traditional folkish writers?

    *If this is your argument, then I would actually agree with you to a point, reading HBD tracts that try to create a sense of nationalism around high IQ or certain genes can be a bit dull, like reading Libertarian or Objectivist tracts. Duginism is a dead-end but I can understand why certain people would be attracted to it.

    • Replies: @Nznz
    I mean popular movements dependent on some sort of charisma and emotional Zeitgeist, which x-zxy=w*z does not really provide.
  209. @German_reader

    It is interesting how pervasive the Enlightenment-era concepts are.
     
    It has nothing to do with the Enlightenment, there's a long history of conflict between the papacy and secular powers, going back at least to the 1070s when pope Gregory VII and the German king (later Roman emperor) Henry IV tried to depose each other. The reference to "give unto Caesar" was a common tactic for kings and other secular powers to argue against papal encroachments (which around 1200 basically took the form of pretensions to a universal papal monarchy with the right of demanding complete obedience from the kings of Christendom, kind of like a Christian caliph). Arguments about the proper relationship between the church and secular rulers have been a prominent feature of at least Western Christendom for a very long time (I don't know enough about the Orthodox world, maybe Karlin or some Russian commenter can comment).
    It's kind of telling that you're apparently unable to understand this, yet more proof how different and alien Islam is.

    Give unto Caesar of course means give nothing, something that would have been clear to Jesus’s audience who knew everything belonged to God. It was a trick question by the Pharisees (Rabbis), hoping to get Jesus to explicitly denounce the Roman authorities and get arrested. Very clever answer.

    • Replies: @DFH

    Give unto Caesar of course means give nothing
     
    No it doesn't, the Romans did collect taxes from Judaea.
    , @German_reader
    DFH has already explained that it did mean Jesus' followers should pay taxes to the Roman authorities.
    And Paul's writings of course admonished the faithful to obedience towards the Roman authorities, most famously in Romans 13 (" For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.").
  210. @Dmitry
    Have you explored Spain? I've traveled across the country two years ago.

    Spain is full of Latin American (people like Mexican, Colombian, Bolivian, etc) immigrants and their children, which mainly have Spanish citizenship. This is by far the largest immigrant group. Latin American people are a huge group there, even in provincial areas.

    There are far more Catholic than Muslim immigrants to Spain (like in the USA). Although you hear quite a lot of Arab guys (hear more than see, because the guys visually similar to Spanish people) around Spain, as their Arabic conversations in the air.

    With their new leftist government I expect the African population to start shooting up for Spain, in addition to their Mestizo population. I was surprised to see the beginnings of a subcontinent population last time I was in Barcelona. Doesn’t matter if they are followers of Catholicism, Islam, animist, voodoo or Hindu, effect is the same.

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    South Asians, particularly Gujrati Pakistanis, have been in Barcelona for decades.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1376378
  211. @Dmitry
    Difference will be, that IDF is a conscripting everyone army, including for immigrants. Any under person 22 (with Jewish descent to the third generation), who is eligible to live in Israel, and is not religious (in Judaism), or a married woman, will be conscripted, on immigration to Israel.

    So the data is just measuring what proportion of young (under 22) people of Jewish descent in the UK, have repatriated to Israel. In this case, presumably figures of immigration to Israel, is higher than people joining as a career, the professional British military (the latter probably unpopular career choice).

    In addition, Israel will give all these people (immigrants to Israel) free university degrees (i.e. going to university without paying tuition fees) - while in the UK, people have to pay money for university studies. Many will likely return to UK after studies,

    A friend of a friend went to Israel ten years ago and was questioned at the border control about not having done national service, he hasn’t been back since.

  212. @German_reader

    Basically, sex, sun and a sense of purpose with an allied nation
     
    I'm unaware there's any treaty of alliance between Israel and the UK (even if there's certainly a lot of cooperation in military and security matters).
    Sorry, but your rationalizations are really lame. Jews whose Jewish identity is so strong they want to serve in the IDF, should permanently move to Israel and give up their British citizenship. Anything else should bring fully deserved charges of dual loyalty.

    It is supposed to be an offence to serve in a foreign military, this is not applied to the IDF.

  213. @Mitleser
    Macron's new bodyguards?

    https://i.redd.it/zu1dkpia4fp11.png


    The Merkel loyalist and the Turkish conquerer

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoQ_QonW0AAzBqP.jpg

    Macron is such a creepy weirdo.

  214. @Anonymous
    French food and Japanese food is highly varied and sophisticated. You could say the same about many other cuisines such as Vietnamese and Thai food. I've never heard anyone say that about Russian cuisine, but I don't know anything about it since I have only ever had Borcht.

    If Russian food is so good, why doesn't Russia have any Michelin starred restaurants?

    If Russian food is so good, why doesn’t Russia have any Michelin starred restaurants?

    Communism can ruin any national cuisine.

  215. @Anonymous
    Not in the west where people freak out about gluten and are to worried about what a carb will do to their keto diet.

    Bakeries are considered prole even though it is hand made and artisinal.

    To the liberal elite anything that can make you fat outweighs any other quality.

    I disagree, SWPLs love bakeries especially if they sell good coffee. Sliced white bread is seen as being for mouth-breathing proles hence the rage for sourdough bread.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Sliced white bread is seen as being for mouth-breathing proles hence the rage for sourdough bread.
     
    Do they buy the sourdough bread or make it themselves? Because I have never figured out how to make sourdough bread leaven properly in practice.
  216. @LondonBob
    With their new leftist government I expect the African population to start shooting up for Spain, in addition to their Mestizo population. I was surprised to see the beginnings of a subcontinent population last time I was in Barcelona. Doesn't matter if they are followers of Catholicism, Islam, animist, voodoo or Hindu, effect is the same.

    South Asians, particularly Gujrati Pakistanis, have been in Barcelona for decades.

    https://www.dawn.com/news/1376378

  217. @Nznz
    Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion instead, being based on worship of purity of the blood and white person hood? Maybe the reason why neoliberalism is so successful is that it basically acts as a quasi religion in some aspects.

    Maybe the reason why neoliberalism is so successful

    It happened because of a some freak historical occurrences in history. White people (mostly Aryans) found a continent that they took from the natives relatively easy, it also happened to be rich in resources, they started to delude themselves that their constitution is was produced their magical dirt that made them powerful (when it was race and natural resources). This magic dirt ideology was used by the jews to seize power, they then caused Europe to be engulfed by two big wars that made them all powerful.

    Eventually having an inferior people as your majority population will come to a reckoning, neoliberalism will end.

    • Replies: @utu
    Neoliberalism is global financial capitalism. The SJW is a minor part of it which is there to distract so nobody looks at the transfer of wealth and erosion of liberties.
    , @DFH

    (when it was race and natural resources).
     
    That must be why Russia is equally as rich as America!
  218. @Anonymous
    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don't see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.

    It is too bland for widespread acceptance I think.

    What about Russian vodka. Is it significantly better than Grey Goose and the like?

    On popular level Russian food only may lack refinement in presentation. But this will improve. For me the presentation is secondary. While I appreciate Japanese esthetics this is not the essence of food. Both nouvelle cuisine and fusion cuisine were influence by Japanese esthetics. But if you look how French dishes were prepared and presented in 19 and 20 century there was no difference from upper class Russian presentation. All European cuisines of upper classes was deeply influenced by French cuisine. Italians may object but only because their pride makes them irrational. Italian ciabatta was invented in 1982 to respond to the popularity of French baguette in Italy. But it is also true that Italian cooking influenced the French. The story goes that the turning point for the French high class cooking was when Catherine de’ Medici married King Henry II of France.

    I do not know Russian food as much as I wish I did but all my experiences were very good and there was nothing that I did not like.

    Russian cuisine can stand on its own just like German, Polish, Hungarian and Scandinavian cuisines can. But turning it to something popular for the plebeian masses that you seem to represent is another story. What are the virtues of hamburgers and hot dogs from fast foods? What suppose to computer with them? Blini and caviar? Could you and your masses handle it?

    Most important part is that Russians will keep eating Russian foods and be proud of it while refining it and incorporating foreign influences but not mindlessly and be more reluctant to fall for novelties from broad.

    This evolutionary process. We develop new habits and tastes. Unfortunately there is also a Gresham’s law that bad money drives out good money. It would be good if American fast foods like Subways, Taco Bell, and McDonald that produce extremely crappy foods were somehow eliminated and replaced with more wholesome food.

  219. @Hyperborean

    Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion instead, being based on worship of purity of the blood and white person hood?
     
    What do you think? I used to hate that 'think for yourself' slogan, but I kind of understand it now.

    If you think HBDism's dependency on rationality makes it hard to appeal to people*, why don't you read some more traditional folkish writers?

    *If this is your argument, then I would actually agree with you to a point, reading HBD tracts that try to create a sense of nationalism around high IQ or certain genes can be a bit dull, like reading Libertarian or Objectivist tracts. Duginism is a dead-end but I can understand why certain people would be attracted to it.

    I mean popular movements dependent on some sort of charisma and emotional Zeitgeist, which x-zxy=w*z does not really provide.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    I mean popular movements dependent on some sort of charisma and emotional Zeitgeist, which x-zxy=w*z does not really provide.
     
    If you know the answer, why are you asking?
  220. @Ali Choudhury
    I disagree, SWPLs love bakeries especially if they sell good coffee. Sliced white bread is seen as being for mouth-breathing proles hence the rage for sourdough bread.

    Sliced white bread is seen as being for mouth-breathing proles hence the rage for sourdough bread.

    Do they buy the sourdough bread or make it themselves? Because I have never figured out how to make sourdough bread leaven properly in practice.

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    The more extreme SWPLs will bake their own.
    , @JL
    I was recently initiated into the sourdough baking process by a very SWPL friend of mine and, as of yet, have not had any leavening problems. I believe it comes down to starter quality, condition and maintenance. I have had issues with starter maintenance, but don't bake anything until they're sorted out.
  221. @Nznz
    I mean popular movements dependent on some sort of charisma and emotional Zeitgeist, which x-zxy=w*z does not really provide.

    I mean popular movements dependent on some sort of charisma and emotional Zeitgeist, which x-zxy=w*z does not really provide.

    If you know the answer, why are you asking?

  222. @Hyperborean

    Sliced white bread is seen as being for mouth-breathing proles hence the rage for sourdough bread.
     
    Do they buy the sourdough bread or make it themselves? Because I have never figured out how to make sourdough bread leaven properly in practice.

    The more extreme SWPLs will bake their own.

  223. @neutral

    Maybe the reason why neoliberalism is so successful
     
    It happened because of a some freak historical occurrences in history. White people (mostly Aryans) found a continent that they took from the natives relatively easy, it also happened to be rich in resources, they started to delude themselves that their constitution is was produced their magical dirt that made them powerful (when it was race and natural resources). This magic dirt ideology was used by the jews to seize power, they then caused Europe to be engulfed by two big wars that made them all powerful.

    Eventually having an inferior people as your majority population will come to a reckoning, neoliberalism will end.

    Neoliberalism is global financial capitalism. The SJW is a minor part of it which is there to distract so nobody looks at the transfer of wealth and erosion of liberties.

    • Replies: @neutral
    Global financial capitalism needs an enforcer, its not just a system that organically because that is what people wanted (of course the likes of (((Ayn Rand))) would want people to believe that). The USA has at times brutally enforced this system, the USA cannot enforce this ideology because the inferior races will have degraded its capability to do so, which will thus be the end of neoliberalism.
  224. @utu
    Neoliberalism is global financial capitalism. The SJW is a minor part of it which is there to distract so nobody looks at the transfer of wealth and erosion of liberties.

    Global financial capitalism needs an enforcer, its not just a system that organically because that is what people wanted (of course the likes of (((Ayn Rand))) would want people to believe that). The USA has at times brutally enforced this system, the USA cannot enforce this ideology because the inferior races will have degraded its capability to do so, which will thus be the end of neoliberalism.

    • Replies: @utu
    I really do not know how to answer. But I think Fuck You will cover all angles.
  225. @neutral
    Global financial capitalism needs an enforcer, its not just a system that organically because that is what people wanted (of course the likes of (((Ayn Rand))) would want people to believe that). The USA has at times brutally enforced this system, the USA cannot enforce this ideology because the inferior races will have degraded its capability to do so, which will thus be the end of neoliberalism.

    I really do not know how to answer. But I think Fuck You will cover all angles.

  226. @Anonymous
    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don't see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.

    It is too bland for widespread acceptance I think.

    What about Russian vodka. Is it significantly better than Grey Goose and the like?

    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don’t see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.

    I’ve noticed that Puerto Ricans and Cubans love olivye but Westerners won’t touch it. I can’t stand it either.

    Otherwise it would seem to be good comfort food. A problem may be that the type of Westerner who likes exotic food equates exotic with spicy, and Russian food isn’t spicy at all.

  227. @Hyperborean

    Sliced white bread is seen as being for mouth-breathing proles hence the rage for sourdough bread.
     
    Do they buy the sourdough bread or make it themselves? Because I have never figured out how to make sourdough bread leaven properly in practice.

    I was recently initiated into the sourdough baking process by a very SWPL friend of mine and, as of yet, have not had any leavening problems. I believe it comes down to starter quality, condition and maintenance. I have had issues with starter maintenance, but don’t bake anything until they’re sorted out.

  228. @LondonBob
    Give unto Caesar of course means give nothing, something that would have been clear to Jesus's audience who knew everything belonged to God. It was a trick question by the Pharisees (Rabbis), hoping to get Jesus to explicitly denounce the Roman authorities and get arrested. Very clever answer.

    Give unto Caesar of course means give nothing

    No it doesn’t, the Romans did collect taxes from Judaea.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    Sure they did but they also resisted doing so, and resisting was the righteous position. Everything is God's, nothing is Caesar's. Of course for the Romans everything was under Caesar so to prosecute Jesus would be to undermine their own philosophy.

    This last remark was another penal offence under the Law and the Pharisees began to gather for the kill. They prepared the famous trick questions: "Then went the Pharisees and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk". The two chief questions were, "To whom shall we render tribute?" and "Who then is my neighbour?" A wrong answer to the first would deliver him to punishment by the foreign ruler, Rome. A wrong answer to the second would enable the Pharisees to denounce him to the foreign ruler as an offender against their own Law, and to demand his punishment.

    This is the method earlier pictured by Jeremiah and still in use today, in the Twentieth Century. All who have had to do with public debate in our time, know the trick question, carefully prepared beforehand, and the difficulty of answering it on the spur of the moment. Various methods of eluding the trap are known to professional debaters (for instance, to say "No comment", or to reply with another question). To give a complete answer, instead of resorting to such evasions, and in so doing to avoid the trap of incrimination and yet maintain the principle at stake is one of the most difficult things known to man. It demands the highest qualities of quickwittedness, presence of mind and clarity of thought. The answers given by Jesus to these two questions remain for all time the models, which mortal man can only hope to emulate.

    "Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?" (the affable tone of honest enquiry can be heard). "But Jesus perceived their wickedness and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? ... Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. When they heard these words, they marvelled, and left him and went their way".
     
    http://antimatrix.org/Convert/Books/Douglas.Reed/The.Controversy.of.Zion/10.The.Man.from.Galilee.htm
  229. @neutral

    Maybe the reason why neoliberalism is so successful
     
    It happened because of a some freak historical occurrences in history. White people (mostly Aryans) found a continent that they took from the natives relatively easy, it also happened to be rich in resources, they started to delude themselves that their constitution is was produced their magical dirt that made them powerful (when it was race and natural resources). This magic dirt ideology was used by the jews to seize power, they then caused Europe to be engulfed by two big wars that made them all powerful.

    Eventually having an inferior people as your majority population will come to a reckoning, neoliberalism will end.

    (when it was race and natural resources).

    That must be why Russia is equally as rich as America!

  230. @Nznz
    Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion instead, being based on worship of purity of the blood and white person hood? Maybe the reason why neoliberalism is so successful is that it basically acts as a quasi religion in some aspects.

    Does White Nationalism better chance if it gives up being entirely based on rationality and instead becomes a quasi religion

    Of course, in some ways Nazism tried to reproduce the structure of traditional religions (e.g. Hitler as a redeemer figure for the German nation, the sacred martyrs of the cause like Horst Wessel), at least in part it was a religion for people who couldn’t believe in the old religion anymore. But it’s not exactly an encouraging precedent.

  231. @LondonBob
    Give unto Caesar of course means give nothing, something that would have been clear to Jesus's audience who knew everything belonged to God. It was a trick question by the Pharisees (Rabbis), hoping to get Jesus to explicitly denounce the Roman authorities and get arrested. Very clever answer.

    DFH has already explained that it did mean Jesus’ followers should pay taxes to the Roman authorities.
    And Paul’s writings of course admonished the faithful to obedience towards the Roman authorities, most famously in Romans 13 (” For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.”).

  232. @German_reader
    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
    Talha has also stated many times that he hopes for the Islamization of Europe (as is of course his duty as a devout Muslim) - or rather, that he is certain it will eventually happen. That attitude is the reason why there can at best be a truce with Muslims, genuine dialogue with mutual respect is impossible.

    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.

    While Islam indeed has much in common with Communism (aggressive invasion, destruction and forced uniformity of beautiful pre-Islamic/pre-Commie traditions, slavery, etc.) it seems to have been a 7th century Puritanistic rather than Revolutionary phenomenon.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I'm not sure if Islam is "puritanistic"...what does that mean? Is it a reference to their rejection of images, depictions of humans etc.? Traditional Islamic sexual morals certainly don't seem "puritanistic" to me, but rather decadent (polygamy, sex with slaves being allowed, also the weird stuff about dozens of virgins in paradise for the believer).
    But you're of course right, that it isn't exactly comparable with communism.
  233. @Anonymous
    Not in the west where people freak out about gluten and are to worried about what a carb will do to their keto diet.

    Bakeries are considered prole even though it is hand made and artisinal.

    To the liberal elite anything that can make you fat outweighs any other quality.

    How many people are on a keto diet? I doubt it’s 1% of the population.

  234. @AP

    I find Islam offensive, like a worse version of communism.
     
    While Islam indeed has much in common with Communism (aggressive invasion, destruction and forced uniformity of beautiful pre-Islamic/pre-Commie traditions, slavery, etc.) it seems to have been a 7th century Puritanistic rather than Revolutionary phenomenon.

    I’m not sure if Islam is “puritanistic”…what does that mean? Is it a reference to their rejection of images, depictions of humans etc.? Traditional Islamic sexual morals certainly don’t seem “puritanistic” to me, but rather decadent (polygamy, sex with slaves being allowed, also the weird stuff about dozens of virgins in paradise for the believer).
    But you’re of course right, that it isn’t exactly comparable with communism.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Islamist view, a little more similar to fascism than communism, when applied in 20th century?

    Early communism, although still led by terrorists, but at least with a few semi-civilized things about it (encouraged certain artistic movement in the early years, before Stalin's attacks on "formalism"), and was designed (before Stalin) to attract intelligent people, being derived from the Hegelian philosophical traditional.

    One of the most unpleasant things about Islamism - anti-modern, anti-intellectual, and social conservatism, along with the desire for conquest that characterized the epoch, and the tribal warfare in Saudi Arabia, in which area this ideology was created.

    This ideology also designed for a low intelligence population, and therefore it is not surprising there is now this lowest common denominator crossover with the stupidest Western criticisms of modernity.

  235. @Hyperborean
    It is my impression that Middle Easterners have very varied skin tones, from swarthy dark brown to normal European white.

    Some of the white ones can pass as European, but the facial structure tends to be rather Middle Eastern.

    But significant proportion Spanish people, higher proportion in Southern Spain, are actually looking Middle Eastern.

    It’s when you cross the border into France, where you have a clear majority of white people around you.

    This highly analogous with the Caucasuses.

    Armenian and Azerbaijani people are almost as dark as Moroccans and Algerians (of course Azerbaijan is far more civilized than any Arab country). But in Georgia, you have already a mix of dark and light people – which is similar ratio to Southern Spain.

    Maybe one day, Georgia will also reach the social and civilizational level of Spain (perhaps in the late 21st century).

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    But significant proportion Spanish people, higher proportion in Southern Spain, are actually looking Middle Eastern.

    It’s when you cross the border into France, where you have a clear majority of white people around you.
     
    Their facial features also, not just the akin tone?

    On a related note, it was nice when I visited Italy and Greece and not a single person assumed I was an Arab (at least to my face), even though it was really sunny and I got very tanned.

    (They did that in Egypt, very annoying)
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Is the Madrid subway still without air conditioning?

    My memory of Madrid is negative: overwhelmingly influenced by the crowding of the subway, the summer heat which was barely dissipated by the mechanical fans, the smell of sweat and grime from crush of bodies and my brother's wallet being stolen at a crossing.
  236. @Anonymous
    Is Russian food really that good to be exported world wide? I don't see it besides the random fashionable restaurant here or there.

    It is too bland for widespread acceptance I think.

    What about Russian vodka. Is it significantly better than Grey Goose and the like?

    Vodka is a colorless, flavorless grain neutral spirit by definition. The only question is whether or not it is sufficiently pure not to be obscured by off notes (which will obscure your brain the next day). Generally speaking all vodka that has been distilled thrice or more is identical. Some new research shows that there are apparently subtle differences in molecular structure between different vodkas, but no doubt it takes a super taster to notice such tiny distinctions.

    Grey Goose, incidentally, is a great exemplar of this phenomenon–a true triumph of marketing.

    It was invented by Sidney Frank, an American Jew who was inspired by the success of Absolut, which at that time was the most expensive vodka generally available. Frank’s idea was to charge a price 50% higher than Absolut, produce the vodka in France (a country which had never in its history previously produced vodka), and give it a fancy name (he decided on combining a color with a bird).

    Frank found some cognac distillers with idle capacity in the off season and with his wife’s help settled on Grey Goose. Even “Grey” was deliberate as that is a British spelling and is incorrect in America. The rest is history.

    In other words if you purchase Grey Goose you are a total fool. Reportedly Frank was toying with the idea of a super premium rum product to be named “White Pelican” when he died. I recommend purchasing reasonably priced vodka that advertises itself as quintuple distilled. Tito’s and Stolichnaya both fit the bill.

    • Agree: Tyrion 2
    • Replies: @neutral
    This reminds of what somebody once told me. She had some guests over, a lot of them were the snob self declared gourmet type, she put a cheap whiskey into an expensive bottle and the guests ended up praising what a great whiskey it was.
    , @AP

    Generally speaking all vodka that has been distilled thrice or more is identical.
     
    It seems, however, that some vodka is smoother than others. People have noticed the difference, without being aware of brand, when I've served good Russian vodkas (such as Russian Standard a few years ago) at parties.
  237. @Thorfinnsson
    Vodka is a colorless, flavorless grain neutral spirit by definition. The only question is whether or not it is sufficiently pure not to be obscured by off notes (which will obscure your brain the next day). Generally speaking all vodka that has been distilled thrice or more is identical. Some new research shows that there are apparently subtle differences in molecular structure between different vodkas, but no doubt it takes a super taster to notice such tiny distinctions.

    Grey Goose, incidentally, is a great exemplar of this phenomenon--a true triumph of marketing.

    It was invented by Sidney Frank, an American Jew who was inspired by the success of Absolut, which at that time was the most expensive vodka generally available. Frank's idea was to charge a price 50% higher than Absolut, produce the vodka in France (a country which had never in its history previously produced vodka), and give it a fancy name (he decided on combining a color with a bird).

    Frank found some cognac distillers with idle capacity in the off season and with his wife's help settled on Grey Goose. Even "Grey" was deliberate as that is a British spelling and is incorrect in America. The rest is history.

    In other words if you purchase Grey Goose you are a total fool. Reportedly Frank was toying with the idea of a super premium rum product to be named "White Pelican" when he died. I recommend purchasing reasonably priced vodka that advertises itself as quintuple distilled. Tito's and Stolichnaya both fit the bill.

    This reminds of what somebody once told me. She had some guests over, a lot of them were the snob self declared gourmet type, she put a cheap whiskey into an expensive bottle and the guests ended up praising what a great whiskey it was.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    President Nixon did this as well, even at state dinners.

    Research has shown that knowledge that a product is expensive improves perception of the product.
  238. @Anonymous
    Not in the west where people freak out about gluten and are to worried about what a carb will do to their keto diet.

    Bakeries are considered prole even though it is hand made and artisinal.

    To the liberal elite anything that can make you fat outweighs any other quality.

    LCHF diets peaked in popularity in the late 1990s. There have been small revivals thanks to the “paleo” movement (Mark Sisson, John Durant, Christ Masterjohn) and lately the success of Nina Teicholz and Ivor Cummins.

    SWPLs do not consider baking or grains to be prole. Instead they have introduced status gradations with concepts such as gluten-free, sprouted grains, ancestral grains, quasi-grains (e.g. quinoa), etc.

    The general momentum is currently against LCHF diets owing to the pernicious influence of vegans who are now promoting so-called “plant-based” diets (ignoring that Americans already get three-fifths of their calories from plants and the global figure is four-fifths). False research is also trotted out to make livestock rearing seem more environmentally damaging than it really is.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  239. @neutral
    This reminds of what somebody once told me. She had some guests over, a lot of them were the snob self declared gourmet type, she put a cheap whiskey into an expensive bottle and the guests ended up praising what a great whiskey it was.

    President Nixon did this as well, even at state dinners.

    Research has shown that knowledge that a product is expensive improves perception of the product.

  240. @Anonymous
    French food and Japanese food is highly varied and sophisticated. You could say the same about many other cuisines such as Vietnamese and Thai food. I've never heard anyone say that about Russian cuisine, but I don't know anything about it since I have only ever had Borcht.

    If Russian food is so good, why doesn't Russia have any Michelin starred restaurants?

    The Michelin Guide is geographically biased (transparently so–it’s not some insiduous plot). Many places simply aren’t covered by it, or are covered in limited detail (e.g. they only do four cities in all of North America).

    I am sure that Moscow and St. Petersburg have many world-class restaurants, though perhaps the cuisine isn’t Russian.

    But I bet places like Vladivostok, Chelyabinsk, etc. don’t have a single restaurant that’s actually good. Lyons on the other had, which is not very large, has more like fifty.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    In Chelyabinsk, there are many restaurants - including even expensive restaurants, and sushi restaurants.

    But the chef in the sushi restaurant will not be real Japanese people, but perhaps they find some other kind of orientals to create the atmosphere.

    However, this is not different even in France and Los Angeles. In a mediocre Italian restaurant in Beverly Hills, of Los Angeles - all staff there, visibly Mexicans, not Italians. Similarly, in France - obvious Chinese people serving "Japanese style" noodles. And in Japan itself, the "Italian restaurant", staffed with Japanese people.

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    This was true a decade ago but I don't think it's true now.

    Probably the single best restaurant I've been to was Russian themed (menu designed by a celebrity chef who's gained fame by recreating prerevolutionary cuisine) and located in Veliky Novgorod, a rather depressed post industrial town of 300,000.
  241. @German_reader
    I'm not sure if Islam is "puritanistic"...what does that mean? Is it a reference to their rejection of images, depictions of humans etc.? Traditional Islamic sexual morals certainly don't seem "puritanistic" to me, but rather decadent (polygamy, sex with slaves being allowed, also the weird stuff about dozens of virgins in paradise for the believer).
    But you're of course right, that it isn't exactly comparable with communism.

    Islamist view, a little more similar to fascism than communism, when applied in 20th century?

    Early communism, although still led by terrorists, but at least with a few semi-civilized things about it (encouraged certain artistic movement in the early years, before Stalin’s attacks on “formalism”), and was designed (before Stalin) to attract intelligent people, being derived from the Hegelian philosophical traditional.

    One of the most unpleasant things about Islamism – anti-modern, anti-intellectual, and social conservatism, along with the desire for conquest that characterized the epoch, and the tribal warfare in Saudi Arabia, in which area this ideology was created.

    This ideology also designed for a low intelligence population, and therefore it is not surprising there is now this lowest common denominator crossover with the stupidest Western criticisms of modernity.

  242. But I bet places like Vladivostok, Chelyabinsk, etc. don’t have a single restaurant that’s actually good. Lyons on the other had, which is not very large, has more like fifty.

    I doubt this will ever change. Russians consider eating in restaurants cuckish and gay. Maybe good for wooing a woman, but being a ‘foodie’ and actually not cooking your own food is a big no-no.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    Why do you insist on being so consistently wrong on just about everything?
    , @DFH
    >2018
    >taking women to restaurants
  243. @Thorfinnsson
    The Michelin Guide is geographically biased (transparently so--it's not some insiduous plot). Many places simply aren't covered by it, or are covered in limited detail (e.g. they only do four cities in all of North America).

    I am sure that Moscow and St. Petersburg have many world-class restaurants, though perhaps the cuisine isn't Russian.

    But I bet places like Vladivostok, Chelyabinsk, etc. don't have a single restaurant that's actually good. Lyons on the other had, which is not very large, has more like fifty.

    In Chelyabinsk, there are many restaurants – including even expensive restaurants, and sushi restaurants.

    But the chef in the sushi restaurant will not be real Japanese people, but perhaps they find some other kind of orientals to create the atmosphere.

    However, this is not different even in France and Los Angeles. In a mediocre Italian restaurant in Beverly Hills, of Los Angeles – all staff there, visibly Mexicans, not Italians. Similarly, in France – obvious Chinese people serving “Japanese style” noodles. And in Japan itself, the “Italian restaurant”, staffed with Japanese people.

  244. @Thorfinnsson
    Vodka is a colorless, flavorless grain neutral spirit by definition. The only question is whether or not it is sufficiently pure not to be obscured by off notes (which will obscure your brain the next day). Generally speaking all vodka that has been distilled thrice or more is identical. Some new research shows that there are apparently subtle differences in molecular structure between different vodkas, but no doubt it takes a super taster to notice such tiny distinctions.

    Grey Goose, incidentally, is a great exemplar of this phenomenon--a true triumph of marketing.

    It was invented by Sidney Frank, an American Jew who was inspired by the success of Absolut, which at that time was the most expensive vodka generally available. Frank's idea was to charge a price 50% higher than Absolut, produce the vodka in France (a country which had never in its history previously produced vodka), and give it a fancy name (he decided on combining a color with a bird).

    Frank found some cognac distillers with idle capacity in the off season and with his wife's help settled on Grey Goose. Even "Grey" was deliberate as that is a British spelling and is incorrect in America. The rest is history.

    In other words if you purchase Grey Goose you are a total fool. Reportedly Frank was toying with the idea of a super premium rum product to be named "White Pelican" when he died. I recommend purchasing reasonably priced vodka that advertises itself as quintuple distilled. Tito's and Stolichnaya both fit the bill.

    Generally speaking all vodka that has been distilled thrice or more is identical.

    It seems, however, that some vodka is smoother than others. People have noticed the difference, without being aware of brand, when I’ve served good Russian vodkas (such as Russian Standard a few years ago) at parties.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    There's some significant differences in flavours between different brands.

    If you can buy "zelenaya marka" where you live - this is not expensive, and still tastes ok (not unpleasant).
    , @reiner Tor
    Pálinka, the hungarian national fruit brandy, is something which was destroyed by the communists. I never liked it, because both the factory produced and the homemade versions were always horrible poisons, the former containing artificial flavors and chemicals, the latter too much alcohol (over 50%) and improperly made (thus often contained methyl-alcohol etc.), and both were difficult to drink.

    Recently I started enjoying it, as now Hungary produces quality pálinka, and I like them a lot. But I still don't know much the names of the distilleries, and I don't know which ones are the best, but I know that for example the Agárdi distillery is very good from personal experience. But maybe it's not among the best? I'd need to search and read articles or reviews, and frankly I'm not that interested.

    So I guess these newer pálinkas are truly good, because I like them without any prestige or snobbery factor. It was a low prestige type of drink previously, so these new ones are probably objectively good.
    , @utu
    If vodka is cold enough there is no way to tell the difference. The smoothness you can test when vodka is just slightly below the room temperature. There is a theory that one Russian physicist kind of convince me of is that the smoothness is defined by the surface tension. Vodka is more smooth if the surface tension is higher. Impurities may increase the surface tension. If you make a vodka from a pure laboratory alcohol mixed with a distilled water it has the lowest surface tensions and that's why it will be much harsher than an impure moonshine that was distilled only once in a crappy still. This is because moonshine has some residual methanol and some esters that increase the surface tensions. So presumable little bit of methanol is good. Not for your eyesight but for smoothness. Why surface tension is important? Because evaporation rate is lower with high surface tension and it is the vapors that give you the sense of harshness. You do not want those free floating alcohol molecules touching your tastebuds and getting to your nose. That's why cold freezing vodka which has high viscosity and high surface tension evaporates less and thus is smooth. Avoid vodkas avoid that claim being distilled multiple times.

    Think about why whisky or Cognac are smooth? Because of impurities. They are not distilled to the maximums and then they sit in oak casks from which they get all kinds of chemicals. Yes, the chemicals may give you headaches which you do not get from good vodka and bad hangover but drinking is very smooth even in room temperature.

    One of the smoothes vodkas I had was Norwegian Linje Aquavit. It is vodka except it is kept the cask and is travelled across the equator.
  245. Zero Hedge shared an article (could be a stupid article) which says that the recent American sanctions are most aimed at the Russian civilian airliner industry, to eliminate an increasingly dangerous competitor.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-30/its-economy-stupid-what-really-drives-us-sanctions-against-russia

    I don’t know if it could even be true or not, but it’d be at least some Russotriumph if it was true.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Sure would be nice if Washington's "elites" had discovered that other countries can form competitive industries decades ago. There might still be a machine tool industry in New England and an electronics industry in Chicago.

    Could've strangled Sony, Airbus, Toyota, Samsung, etc. in the cradle.

    After decades of trading commercial marketshare for "security" objectives, now it seems the Trump administration is using "'security" excuses to preserve commercial marketshare.

    This isn't limited to Russia either as evidenced by attacks on ZTE and even German companies.

  246. @Hyperborean

    Actually one should read at least the introduction of the book by Prof. Robert P. George (a Catholic legal theorist and philosopher) – a preview of the introduction is available at Amazon, the man argues from within the Catholic natural-law framework:
     
    Why? Aside from this vague snippet: George closes with a sketch of a "pluralistic perfectionist" theory of civil liberties and public morality, showing that it is fully compatible with a defense of morals legislation. I don’t see how this is relevant.

    My point was that your viewpoint about how Catholics and other Christians should just 'trust their own doctrine' is unrealistic and you have the luxury of adopting this position because ultimately it has no effect on you.

    We have already had this debate in Europe over the 19th century and whatever future Christians may or may not have with nationalists in power, they have no future with Liberal Decompositionists, and submitting to Saracens is a fool's game.

    And really, many priests are now merely zampolits with less power, many of whom are not even sure whether God exists!


    But this is not the case, according to a poll of Anglican clergy which found that as many as 16 per cent are unclear about God and two per cent think it is no more than a human construct.

     

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/survey-finds-2-of-anglican-priests-are-not-believers-9821899.html

    Siding with their enemies and denouncing nationalists today like they denounced Maurras is futile and won't end well.


    You seem like a decent man and remind me of the old well-dressed and well-mannered Turkish or Kurdish couples I used to sometimes see where I lived, but talking to you there are times like this when I notice how alien your mindset is.

    Catholics and other Christians should just ‘trust their own doctrine’ is unrealistic

    Well, that’s really up to the Church – and I wasn’t really speaking about other Christians because they don’t have as intact a tradition as the Church (or the Orthodox).

    It seems your big beef with the Church is support fro immigration. Well, I simply don’t see why the Church cannot borrow from its own pre-Vatican 2 positions on things like Islam, Judaism and a bunch of other issues. They can oppose Muslim immigration on religious grounds and that will naturally converge with ethno-nationalist interests. I don’t see why (going back to my original point) they have to compromise any more with Caesar and think about splitting ecclesiastical authority when Caesar has already taken plenty of pounds of flesh.

    They may have concerns about what ethno-nationalism will lead to. European history is still pretty fresh in living memory up to and including things like the breaking apart of Yugoslavia, the current situation in Donbass and even concerns about, say, what would happen to Polish immigrants in Britain. So I simply don’t see why the Church can’t oppose immigration on its own terms in view of its own interests.

    Again, it’s their call – not my religion.

    I notice how alien your mindset is

    Indeed, this is not a problem. The (post)modern world is quite puzzled about what to do about Islam and that’s fine. The implications of things like the Singularity, transhumanism and other things seems fairly alien to me (and I suspect to even many Westerners of a few decades back). Either the rest of the world is going insane or we are.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    It seems your big beef with the Church is support fro immigration. Well, I simply don’t see why the Church cannot borrow from its own pre-Vatican 2 positions on things like Islam, Judaism and a bunch of other issues. They can oppose Muslim immigration on religious grounds and that will naturally converge with ethno-nationalist interests. I don’t see why (going back to my original point) they have to compromise any more with Caesar and think about splitting ecclesiastical authority when Caesar has already taken plenty of pounds of flesh.
     
    The problem is that we need a way to make it harder for liberal infiltrators to come crawling in and a way to depose them when they inevitably do (this actually goes beyond nationalism and covers a lot of the Roman Catholic Church's faults).

    It need not take the form of a formal split, either gallicanism or internal reforms to the church structure might work, but something needs to be done.

    They need not even support us, they simply need to stop supporting our (and their) enemies.
  247. @Dmitry
    But significant proportion Spanish people, higher proportion in Southern Spain, are actually looking Middle Eastern.

    It's when you cross the border into France, where you have a clear majority of white people around you.

    This highly analogous with the Caucasuses.

    Armenian and Azerbaijani people are almost as dark as Moroccans and Algerians (of course Azerbaijan is far more civilized than any Arab country). But in Georgia, you have already a mix of dark and light people - which is similar ratio to Southern Spain.

    Maybe one day, Georgia will also reach the social and civilizational level of Spain (perhaps in the late 21st century).

    But significant proportion Spanish people, higher proportion in Southern Spain, are actually looking Middle Eastern.

    It’s when you cross the border into France, where you have a clear majority of white people around you.

    Their facial features also, not just the akin tone?

    On a related note, it was nice when I visited Italy and Greece and not a single person assumed I was an Arab (at least to my face), even though it was really sunny and I got very tanned.

    (They did that in Egypt, very annoying)

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    There is visual overlap (at least in my untrained eyes ) of proportion of the population.

    There are Arabs, you could swap with Spanish, and vice versa. I don't think even local people would know for all, if they had been acculturated.

    ----

    E.g. a proportion of Arabs below you could just swap into Spain, and (as tourists) would be difficult to notice. And vice-versa. If you put the darker Spanish people into Lebanon, they could go "undercover" quite easily.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d9yt9yAwBo
  248. @AP

    Generally speaking all vodka that has been distilled thrice or more is identical.
     
    It seems, however, that some vodka is smoother than others. People have noticed the difference, without being aware of brand, when I've served good Russian vodkas (such as Russian Standard a few years ago) at parties.

    There’s some significant differences in flavours between different brands.

    If you can buy “zelenaya marka” where you live – this is not expensive, and still tastes ok (not unpleasant).

  249. @Thorfinnsson
    The Michelin Guide is geographically biased (transparently so--it's not some insiduous plot). Many places simply aren't covered by it, or are covered in limited detail (e.g. they only do four cities in all of North America).

    I am sure that Moscow and St. Petersburg have many world-class restaurants, though perhaps the cuisine isn't Russian.

    But I bet places like Vladivostok, Chelyabinsk, etc. don't have a single restaurant that's actually good. Lyons on the other had, which is not very large, has more like fifty.

    This was true a decade ago but I don’t think it’s true now.

    Probably the single best restaurant I’ve been to was Russian themed (menu designed by a celebrity chef who’s gained fame by recreating prerevolutionary cuisine) and located in Veliky Novgorod, a rather depressed post industrial town of 300,000.

  250. @anonymous coward

    But I bet places like Vladivostok, Chelyabinsk, etc. don’t have a single restaurant that’s actually good. Lyons on the other had, which is not very large, has more like fifty.
     
    I doubt this will ever change. Russians consider eating in restaurants cuckish and gay. Maybe good for wooing a woman, but being a 'foodie' and actually not cooking your own food is a big no-no.

    Why do you insist on being so consistently wrong on just about everything?

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    Trust me, I know more about Russia and Russians than your sorry Anglo ass.

    You may not like what I say, but facts are facts. Russians consider restaurants to be cuckish and gay. Yes, in this age of hipsterism and metrosexuality, the stigma around cuckoldry and gayness is much lower, but the underlying belief is still there, like it or not.

    P.S. The really hardcore SPWL Russians don't go to restaurants. Not only do they cook their own food, they grown their own grain and their own animals too. Peak Russian SWPL is owning a farm with your own lamb/goat/cow. If you have any well-off Russian friends, ask around. You'll be surprised.
  251. @AP

    Generally speaking all vodka that has been distilled thrice or more is identical.
     
    It seems, however, that some vodka is smoother than others. People have noticed the difference, without being aware of brand, when I've served good Russian vodkas (such as Russian Standard a few years ago) at parties.

    Pálinka, the hungarian national fruit brandy, is something which was destroyed by the communists. I never liked it, because both the factory produced and the homemade versions were always horrible poisons, the former containing artificial flavors and chemicals, the latter too much alcohol (over 50%) and improperly made (thus often contained methyl-alcohol etc.), and both were difficult to drink.

    Recently I started enjoying it, as now Hungary produces quality pálinka, and I like them a lot. But I still don’t know much the names of the distilleries, and I don’t know which ones are the best, but I know that for example the Agárdi distillery is very good from personal experience. But maybe it’s not among the best? I’d need to search and read articles or reviews, and frankly I’m not that interested.

    So I guess these newer pálinkas are truly good, because I like them without any prestige or snobbery factor. It was a low prestige type of drink previously, so these new ones are probably objectively good.

  252. @reiner Tor
    Zero Hedge shared an article (could be a stupid article) which says that the recent American sanctions are most aimed at the Russian civilian airliner industry, to eliminate an increasingly dangerous competitor.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-30/its-economy-stupid-what-really-drives-us-sanctions-against-russia

    I don't know if it could even be true or not, but it'd be at least some Russotriumph if it was true.

    Sure would be nice if Washington’s “elites” had discovered that other countries can form competitive industries decades ago. There might still be a machine tool industry in New England and an electronics industry in Chicago.

    Could’ve strangled Sony, Airbus, Toyota, Samsung, etc. in the cradle.

    After decades of trading commercial marketshare for “security” objectives, now it seems the Trump administration is using “‘security” excuses to preserve commercial marketshare.

    This isn’t limited to Russia either as evidenced by attacks on ZTE and even German companies.

  253. @Hyperborean

    But significant proportion Spanish people, higher proportion in Southern Spain, are actually looking Middle Eastern.

    It’s when you cross the border into France, where you have a clear majority of white people around you.
     
    Their facial features also, not just the akin tone?

    On a related note, it was nice when I visited Italy and Greece and not a single person assumed I was an Arab (at least to my face), even though it was really sunny and I got very tanned.

    (They did that in Egypt, very annoying)

    There is visual overlap (at least in my untrained eyes ) of proportion of the population.

    There are Arabs, you could swap with Spanish, and vice versa. I don’t think even local people would know for all, if they had been acculturated.

    —-

    E.g. a proportion of Arabs below you could just swap into Spain, and (as tourists) would be difficult to notice. And vice-versa. If you put the darker Spanish people into Lebanon, they could go “undercover” quite easily.

  254. Another late cycle indicator.

    Still, the 2/10 has not yet inverted.

    Bull market could well continue for another two years for all we know.

    Tesla is back up over $300 this morning on news that Musk reached a highly favorable settlement with the SEC ($20m, step down as chairman for three years). DoJ investigation reportedly continues.

    Here’s Charley Grant on the matter: https://twitter.com/CGrantWSJ/status/1046519527658401792

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
    That is probably driven by all the Chinese tech firms listing since it's getting harder for them to get loans locally. Saw one such case of a firm listing because they wished to raise the grand total of $50k which caused some discrete coughing at the SEC.
  255. @anonymous coward

    But I bet places like Vladivostok, Chelyabinsk, etc. don’t have a single restaurant that’s actually good. Lyons on the other had, which is not very large, has more like fifty.
     
    I doubt this will ever change. Russians consider eating in restaurants cuckish and gay. Maybe good for wooing a woman, but being a 'foodie' and actually not cooking your own food is a big no-no.

    >2018
    >taking women to restaurants

  256. @Dmitry
    But significant proportion Spanish people, higher proportion in Southern Spain, are actually looking Middle Eastern.

    It's when you cross the border into France, where you have a clear majority of white people around you.

    This highly analogous with the Caucasuses.

    Armenian and Azerbaijani people are almost as dark as Moroccans and Algerians (of course Azerbaijan is far more civilized than any Arab country). But in Georgia, you have already a mix of dark and light people - which is similar ratio to Southern Spain.

    Maybe one day, Georgia will also reach the social and civilizational level of Spain (perhaps in the late 21st century).

    Is the Madrid subway still without air conditioning?

    My memory of Madrid is negative: overwhelmingly influenced by the crowding of the subway, the summer heat which was barely dissipated by the mechanical fans, the smell of sweat and grime from crush of bodies and my brother’s wallet being stolen at a crossing.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I thought subway train is very good and efficient in Madrid. I'm not such a fan of the atmosphere in Madrid, but culturally the best art galleries - unlike Barcelona - and not destroyed by tourists yet - unlike Barcelona.

    We take the bus afterwards, from Madrid to Seville (this was a lot of hours) - and that is a truly nice city.

    , @DFH
    I went there over the summer and it seemed very spacious and new
  257. @Talha

    Catholics and other Christians should just ‘trust their own doctrine’ is unrealistic
     
    Well, that's really up to the Church - and I wasn't really speaking about other Christians because they don't have as intact a tradition as the Church (or the Orthodox).

    It seems your big beef with the Church is support fro immigration. Well, I simply don't see why the Church cannot borrow from its own pre-Vatican 2 positions on things like Islam, Judaism and a bunch of other issues. They can oppose Muslim immigration on religious grounds and that will naturally converge with ethno-nationalist interests. I don't see why (going back to my original point) they have to compromise any more with Caesar and think about splitting ecclesiastical authority when Caesar has already taken plenty of pounds of flesh.

    They may have concerns about what ethno-nationalism will lead to. European history is still pretty fresh in living memory up to and including things like the breaking apart of Yugoslavia, the current situation in Donbass and even concerns about, say, what would happen to Polish immigrants in Britain. So I simply don't see why the Church can't oppose immigration on its own terms in view of its own interests.

    Again, it's their call - not my religion.

    I notice how alien your mindset is
     
    Indeed, this is not a problem. The (post)modern world is quite puzzled about what to do about Islam and that's fine. The implications of things like the Singularity, transhumanism and other things seems fairly alien to me (and I suspect to even many Westerners of a few decades back). Either the rest of the world is going insane or we are.

    Peace.

    It seems your big beef with the Church is support fro immigration. Well, I simply don’t see why the Church cannot borrow from its own pre-Vatican 2 positions on things like Islam, Judaism and a bunch of other issues. They can oppose Muslim immigration on religious grounds and that will naturally converge with ethno-nationalist interests. I don’t see why (going back to my original point) they have to compromise any more with Caesar and think about splitting ecclesiastical authority when Caesar has already taken plenty of pounds of flesh.

    The problem is that we need a way to make it harder for liberal infiltrators to come crawling in and a way to depose them when they inevitably do (this actually goes beyond nationalism and covers a lot of the Roman Catholic Church’s faults).

    It need not take the form of a formal split, either gallicanism or internal reforms to the church structure might work, but something needs to be done.

    They need not even support us, they simply need to stop supporting our (and their) enemies.

  258. @Daniel Chieh
    Is the Madrid subway still without air conditioning?

    My memory of Madrid is negative: overwhelmingly influenced by the crowding of the subway, the summer heat which was barely dissipated by the mechanical fans, the smell of sweat and grime from crush of bodies and my brother's wallet being stolen at a crossing.

    I thought subway train is very good and efficient in Madrid. I’m not such a fan of the atmosphere in Madrid, but culturally the best art galleries – unlike Barcelona – and not destroyed by tourists yet – unlike Barcelona.

    We take the bus afterwards, from Madrid to Seville (this was a lot of hours) – and that is a truly nice city.

  259. @DFH

    Give unto Caesar of course means give nothing
     
    No it doesn't, the Romans did collect taxes from Judaea.

    Sure they did but they also resisted doing so, and resisting was the righteous position. Everything is God’s, nothing is Caesar’s. Of course for the Romans everything was under Caesar so to prosecute Jesus would be to undermine their own philosophy.

    This last remark was another penal offence under the Law and the Pharisees began to gather for the kill. They prepared the famous trick questions: “Then went the Pharisees and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk”. The two chief questions were, “To whom shall we render tribute?” and “Who then is my neighbour?” A wrong answer to the first would deliver him to punishment by the foreign ruler, Rome. A wrong answer to the second would enable the Pharisees to denounce him to the foreign ruler as an offender against their own Law, and to demand his punishment.

    This is the method earlier pictured by Jeremiah and still in use today, in the Twentieth Century. All who have had to do with public debate in our time, know the trick question, carefully prepared beforehand, and the difficulty of answering it on the spur of the moment. Various methods of eluding the trap are known to professional debaters (for instance, to say “No comment”, or to reply with another question). To give a complete answer, instead of resorting to such evasions, and in so doing to avoid the trap of incrimination and yet maintain the principle at stake is one of the most difficult things known to man. It demands the highest qualities of quickwittedness, presence of mind and clarity of thought. The a