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Open Thread 55: Chilli Pepper Thread
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chilli-pepper

I have more chilli peppers than I know what to do with (about 20 kg worth of it). Any ideas?

My “Stupid People” post has been phenomenally successful, generating almost 1,000 comments and more visits than other post of mine at the UR since The Road to World War III this April. It also generated a large discussion on /r/slatestarcodex: https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9dj642/the_idiocy_of_the_average_and_why_it_matters/

This September is set to become a record breaking month, in an already record breaking year. Less than halfway through, I already have 26,000 visits (normal month of late: 30,000) and 80,000 pageviews (normal month of late: 120,000). Total pageview for 2018 now total a round 1,000,000. That’s 2.5x the rate of the entire of 2015, 2x the rate of 2016, and more than the 790,000 of the entirety of 2017.

***

Featured News

* SYRIA: Long awaited assault on Idlib is still up in the air. The Turks are digging their heels in, so perhaps the operation will end up limited to just taking the areas east of the M5 motorway? Anyhow, as I pointed out, it’s a tense situation – Russia is the midst of the massive Vostok-2018 (in which China is also involved); its armada is still of the Syrian coast; the US now has moved naval assets with a total of 200 Tomahawk missiles to the East Mediterranean. Intermittent reports from RT/Sputnik about an imminent gas attack false flag by the rebels and White Helmets. The Western propaganda wheels are also in motion.

* DONBASS: Assassinated Zakharchenko has been replaced by Denis Pushilin, with elections scheduled for November. Possible candidates include Pavel Gubarev and Khodakovsky. But Pushilin, a gray non-entity who promoted MMM pyramid schemes before the war, seems to be the Kremlin’s favored candidate. In other news, long-time informed DNR observer Alexander Zhuchkovsky reports that Prilepin’s battalion has been disbanded. Prilepin himself, a popular novelist, Donbass supporter, and editor of Svobodnaya Pressa (probably Russia’s best far left outlet), who had friendly relations with Zakharchenko, has reportedly been barred from entering the DNR, as have other close Zakharchenko associates. It’s hard to figure out what exactly is happening there, but my zradometer is tingling.

* NYT LETTER. I don’t buy that the NYT letter was written by Pence – I’d need more evidence than a fondness for the word “lodestar”. Also skeptical that the NYT invented it, as Paul Craig Roberts suggests. Amusing text analysis showing that it was Trump himself (h/t Emil Kirkegaard). My guess is some Nikki Haley or some other deep state bug(wo)man.

* FAKE NEWS? The Duran: 1 million Uighurs in Chinese “internment camps” (Video). Making the Chicoms out to be Nazis is amusing, but I have always suspected it is BS. A country that has affirmative action for minorities and condemns “Han chauvinism” is not going to be devising “final solutions” to the Uyghur Question. However, the timing of this Western media campaign is interesting.

***

Russia

* KREMLINOLOGY. Bloomberg’s interview with Olga Kryshtanovskaya – What Comes After Putin Could Be Trouble.

I looked at it using game theory, and concluded that the elite is likely to betray Putin. As soon as Putin indicates which group’s candidate he prefers, the optimal strategy for the other groups is to undermine that candidate — because if he wins, they stand to lose everything.

* STUPID SPOOKS. Former Putin bodyguard, former Ksenia Sobchak chaperone, and “highly qualified” person [according to Martyanov], and current head of the National Guard Viktor Zolotov posts a bizarre rant on YouTube where he challenges Navalny to a duel and promises to “grill him.”

I think this is a perfectly normal, rational response to Navalny’s corruption allegations.

* Russian spy service punishes trainees who drove through Moscow in a luxury convoy to celebrate graduation – and allowing themselves to be photographed. As I keep saying, these organizations don’t get the best.

* Skripal discussion here.

* SANCTIONS. Interest rates hiked by 25bp to 7.25%. This suggests that CBR expects very strong US sanctions come November. US State Department has recently said as much.

* SELF-SUFFICIENCY. Vedomosti: Aeroflot will order 100 more SSJ-100′s [in Russian]. Good news – in any case, bearing in mind current affairs, it hardly has any choice.

* CARS OF STATE. Remember the indigenous Russian replacement for Mercedes used during Putin’s inauguration? That “Kortezh” line under the Aurus brand is going into serial production.

* SINOTRIUMPH. Russia and China are looking at launching joint projects worth more than $100 billion

* ISOLATED RUSSIA. Taiwan removes visa requirements for Russian citizens. But China does not want Russia to reciprocate. For all my Sinophilia, I think we can talk if/when China recognizes Crimea.

* THE BILL/BORIS FILES. I don’t often cite Masha Gessen, but this is a good piece: The Undoing of Bill Clinton and Boris Yeltsin’s Friendship, and How It Changed Both of Their Countries

* NEOLIBERALISM (THE GOOD KIND). Vedomosti: IMF supports Russia’s pension reforms [in Russian]. As RT’s Bryan MacDonald wisecracked, not often that US/UK media propaganda runs contrary to IMF advice. I covered the pensions protests here.

* ORTHODOXY. Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is moving towards granting autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize his authority to do so, and if this goes through, this may well result in a schism between Constantinople and Moscow. Will have more on this later.

* RUSSIAN PROPHET. Egor Kholmogorov – The Ideology of Alexander Solzhenitsyn [in Russian]. This is the complete work. We have provided partial translations of this text here and here.

***

World

* FAREWELL AMERICANA. After a glimmer of hope this summer, I am once again skeptical about MAGA’s prospects. 538 is giving 5/6 chance to Democrats winning control of the House. There’s even a 1/3 chance that they’ll seize both the House and the Senate. Now I know people like to make fun of Nate Silver for “failing” to predict Trump in 2016, but in all fairness, 538 gave him an approximately 1/3 chance – way more than most “experts.” Now is he assigning exactly the same likelihood to an all-consuming Blue Wave – and this is happening at a time when the economy hasn’t been doing so well for over a decade.

* Electric vehicles sales in Europe surpassed 1 million. I think the algae/pond metaphor is applicable.

* Progressive Israel drafts law to imprison holders of the Palestinian flag.

* Since Putin is good friends with Bibi these days, perhaps he could take note?

bibi-strong

* Taiwanese population might start declining by 2022, three years earlier than forecast. Its TFR has been lower than 1.3 children per woman since 2003.

* Do Chinese believe in HBD? spandrell says no:

***

HBD/IQ

* Jonathan Wai et al. (2018) – Using Standardized Test Scores to Include General Cognitive Ability in Education Research and Policy

* LATTER DAY LYSENKOISM: Theodore P. Hill (Quillette) – Academic Activists Send a Published Paper Down the Memory Hole.

Colleagues I spoke to were appalled. None of them had ever heard of a paper in any field being disappeared after formal publication. Rejected prior to publication? Of course. Retracted? Yes, but only after an investigation, the results of which would then be made public by way of explanation. But simply disappeared? Never. If a formally refereed and published paper can later be erased from the scientific record and replaced by a completely different article, without any discussion with the author or any announcement in the journal, what will this mean for the future of electronic journals?

Seriously, read the entire piece – this is really amazing stuff. American academia is reaching levels of Lysenkoism previously thought to be impossible.

Here is the paper in question (he had a Russian mathematician as a coauthor, but he was too weak to resist the SJW pressure and asked to be taken off):

* Theodore P. Hill (2018) – An Evolutionary Theory for the Variability Hypothesis

* Robin Hanson: Sexism Inflation

***

Science/Culture

* TECHNOPHILIA (NextBigFuture):

* DW: Women increasingly drawn to right-wing populist parties, study shows. Hardly surprising – as I said, defining feature of female politics is that it is conformist. As right-wing parties become normalized, they’ll get more women by default.

* The Economist on how nudism is in rapid decline in Europe

* Nature: The quest to conquer Earth’s space junk problem

* Atlas Obscura: The Communist Cookbook That Defined Prague’s Cuisine. Wherever you look, commies ruin everything.

Cooks that wanted to deviate from these recipes had to get approval from the Ministry of Health, a request that could take years to go through. Most people opted for the easier route, which is how thousands of nearly identical menus came to be established across the country. Paired with limited ingredient diversity, the nation suffered a creative drought: It wasn’t just that all the same dishes were served, but the dishes were prepared exactly the same way, resulting in identical versions of dishes, too. Each bite was calculated as a means of productivity, and dining for pleasure was considered extravagant. “Special” meals were no longer considered, and the scope of Czech cuisine shrunk.

* Matt Phillips: How Spain’s bloody history gave it the world’s highest concentration of elevators (h/t Artir)

* E. Harding: Third Script for graphing Maddison GDP data (graphing groups of countries)

* Steve Sailer: Conspiracy Theorists vs. an Actual Giant Conspiracy.

The big reason that Bletchley Park was classified after the war was because the Brits distributed thousands of Enigma machines to its colonies after the war, who did not know they had been cracked. This allowed Britain spy on their communications for years afterwards.

* Good thread summarizing Adam Tooze’s The Wages of Destruction, one of the most interesting and original books on Nazi Germany:

***

Culture War & Powerful Takes

* Greg Hood (Amren) – How Twitter Promotes Verified Hate

* Tom X Hart: Future Analysis | The world in 2028

* Steve Sailer: Google Meltdown

(00:01:12) Returning to seriousness, Brin says he is “deeply offen[ded]” by the election of Trump, and that the election “conflicts with many of [Google’s] values.”

* GLOBOHOMOBEZOS:

  • Facebook censors British former ambassador/dissident Craig Murray
  • Facebook censors ThinkProgress, leftist fanatics who had hailed the censoring of Roosh V just a couple of days before. Poetic justice?
  • GloboHomoBezos Purges Roosh V
 
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  1. sflicht says:

    Suggestion for the chilis: you and Razib could come up with an UNZ-branded hot sauce recipe and sell it on Etsy until you are inevitably de-platformed from there.

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  2. SANCTIONS. Interest rates hiked by 25bp to 7.25%. This suggests that CBR expects very strong US sanctions come November.

    And an increase of 25 bps is supposed to protect us from those? lol This doesn’t make sense.

    Honestly, I do not understand why CBR is doing this. Inflation has remained surprisingly low despite weak ruble.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Kimppis
    Yeah, CBR has overestimated inflation in every single forecast since at least 2014 and they've been overly pessimistic about the economy in general. That's why the rates were that high to begin with. I guess they basically overestimate the economy's dependence on imports.
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  3. DFH says:

    anglo_supremacy.jpg

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    • Replies: @Matra
    Tim Newman, a Welshman living in Paris, wrote about this subject recently: Apartments in Britain and France
    , @Anonymous
    Don't most people in the UK live in "terrace housing"? Whenever you see pictures of terrace housing or see them on TV or in movies, they're very crummy looking. And they look cramped and not much more spacious if at all than apartments.
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  4. Mr. Hack says:

    Chili peppers are great, but other’s are great too? One step up is the often overlooked serrano, that is also technically a ‘chilli’ pepper too, but adds another dimension of the ‘kick’. You could try mashing your surplus and adding garlic too. Christmas is just around the corner…Please tell us more about how you currently use your chillies?..

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  5. g2k says:

    Given just how much of a busted flush the trump administration has been, a blue wave will hardly be the end of the world. The longer he’s in office the bigger the backlash will be when he eventually does go. At this point in time his policies are not different to what Hilary’s would’ve been. For all the pre-election talk of cuckservatism, at least Bush family, Romney et. al were slightly upfront and honest about their agenda. It’s looking more and more likely that his campaign promises werejust a pack of lies. He is to the populist right what Tsipras is to the populist left.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    At this point in time his policies are not different to what Hilary’s would’ve been.

    Idiot thinking like this got us to this point.
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  6. g2k says:

    Make hot sauce with the chillies. Fry a few onions, add some garlic once theyre soft and brown, fry for a bit longer til the garlic stops smelling raw. Add the chillies (chopped), dont scrimp, add about 100 for every 3 onions. Cook them down a bit until soft. Add something acidic, some mix of citrus juice and vinegar and hand blend. Cook on v. low heat for a day or so (a crock pot is very useful here), until the acid has acted on the chillies and the sauce no longer tastes astringent, add water if it gets too dry.

    Chillies never rot, so doing nothing with them will just mean that you’ll have loads of, perfectly edible, dry chillies.

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  7. The Communist Cookbook That Defined Prague’s Cuisine.

    The same happened in Hungary. It’s gradually being undone over the past 10 years, roughly since 2008. In the 1990s it actually got worse, because a lot of new restaurants wanted to make a quick buck by selling badly made food from bad quality ingredients, though now the situation is way better.

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k
    The wine has become noticeably more widely available in the uk over the past couple of years, Lidl is promoting it quite heavily. The number of styles available are quite impressive.
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  8. Here is another important piece of news, Russia related:

    The Ukraine owes us $3 billion in Eurobonds. Today a court of appeal in England ruled that it doesn’t need to pay, for now. There will be a new trial.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I don't understand the ruling. Either they received the money, or they didn't. You might argue about the interest rates, but they should pay them back the principal immediately unless they accept its terms.

    What might complicate the issue is the Crimea, because Ukraine can argue that Russia broke a number of international treaties by annexing it, and so it's also not bound by financial law to pay back the bonds. You break a treaty, I break one, too, or something. But if it wasn't considered (and I don't think so; besides, no one is willing to accept this line of argument, since then for example Russia can say the same about the Helsinki Accords, which were broken by the US and its allies before Russia broke them), then the only way to understand the decision is as a political decision.
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  9. g2k says:
    @reiner Tor

    The Communist Cookbook That Defined Prague’s Cuisine.
     
    The same happened in Hungary. It's gradually being undone over the past 10 years, roughly since 2008. In the 1990s it actually got worse, because a lot of new restaurants wanted to make a quick buck by selling badly made food from bad quality ingredients, though now the situation is way better.

    The wine has become noticeably more widely available in the uk over the past couple of years, Lidl is promoting it quite heavily. The number of styles available are quite impressive.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Hungarian wine was also destroyed by the commies, but it started to rebound earlier than food, already around 2000 there were good wines available, and by 2010 most of the very bad Hungarian wines were withdrawn from the market. They cracked down on fake wines (those synthetically made from alcohol, sugar, water and aroma) around the same time.

    Food came something like a decade later.
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  10. Anonymous[339] • Disclaimer says:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1546863095/

    The international Jew by Henry Ford is still on Amazon.

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  11. Kimppis says:
    @Felix Keverich

    SANCTIONS. Interest rates hiked by 25bp to 7.25%. This suggests that CBR expects very strong US sanctions come November.
     
    And an increase of 25 bps is supposed to protect us from those? lol This doesn't make sense.

    Honestly, I do not understand why CBR is doing this. Inflation has remained surprisingly low despite weak ruble.

    Yeah, CBR has overestimated inflation in every single forecast since at least 2014 and they’ve been overly pessimistic about the economy in general. That’s why the rates were that high to begin with. I guess they basically overestimate the economy’s dependence on imports.

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  12. neutral says:

    You dry the chillies and put them in some jars, you thus have a near endless supply to easily spice up most of your meals – simple and best solution.

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  13. @g2k
    The wine has become noticeably more widely available in the uk over the past couple of years, Lidl is promoting it quite heavily. The number of styles available are quite impressive.

    Hungarian wine was also destroyed by the commies, but it started to rebound earlier than food, already around 2000 there were good wines available, and by 2010 most of the very bad Hungarian wines were withdrawn from the market. They cracked down on fake wines (those synthetically made from alcohol, sugar, water and aroma) around the same time.

    Food came something like a decade later.

    Read More
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  14. Jason Liu says:

    TBH I wouldn’t be surprised if the CCP really was holding a lot of Uyghurs in camps. Maybe not a million, but a lot. Everything about their rhetoric shows that they’ve been reading too many horror stories about rapefugees in Europe, and are now extra paranoid and cracking down everywhere. It’s excessive IMO, and will probably create a cycle of violence + a shitty legacy in the future.

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    • Agree: AquariusAnon
    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
    The problem with Uyghurs is that you can't exterminate them, being 15 million strong and rapidly growing. For better or worse, they are rapidly growing and are full Chinese citizens.

    I was looking at Google Earth, and it many of the Uyghur neighborhoods in Urumqi that were standing as late as 2014 were completely bulldozed. Empty land everywhere in the city center that don't have construction on top as of 2017. This does suggest that re-education camps are likely a thing.

    Uyghurs will and likely are doubling down on their Islam at least in private, and eventually cause generations of resentment against the CCP and the Han Chinese as a whole. This resentment might even translate to a full-blown independence movement in the future and if it were ever successful, then good luck; China will have a hostile Islamic republic right at its borders.

    China can learn from Russia on how it solved its Chechen problem and apply it to Uyghurs. Some sort of autonomy/vassalage with a local Islamic Uyghur strongman that answers to Beijing but allowed to run the domestic policies of Xinjiang however he likes might be necessary. Ditto for Tibet.
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  15. @Felix Keverich
    Here is another important piece of news, Russia related:

    The Ukraine owes us $3 billion in Eurobonds. Today a court of appeal in England ruled that it doesn't need to pay, for now. There will be a new trial.

    https://twitter.com/jsphctrl/status/1040585974944817152

    I don’t understand the ruling. Either they received the money, or they didn’t. You might argue about the interest rates, but they should pay them back the principal immediately unless they accept its terms.

    What might complicate the issue is the Crimea, because Ukraine can argue that Russia broke a number of international treaties by annexing it, and so it’s also not bound by financial law to pay back the bonds. You break a treaty, I break one, too, or something. But if it wasn’t considered (and I don’t think so; besides, no one is willing to accept this line of argument, since then for example Russia can say the same about the Helsinki Accords, which were broken by the US and its allies before Russia broke them), then the only way to understand the decision is as a political decision.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Pretty much, but technically they aren't breaking anything, yet. The Ukraine claimed that Russia "forced" it to accept a loan "under threat of violence". Complete absurdity, so the court rejected this argumentation at first, but now a court of appeal ruled a new trial to see if Russia really did "force" its money on the Ukraine. And presumably if the "loan" is forced, than it doesn't need to returned, or the terms have to be renegotiated - I don't know how the English law works...

    One thing for certain though, this litigation could last for years. And even if Russia wins, current regime will refuse to pay. Realistically, the only way for Russia to extract this debt from the Ukraine is by installing a new government in Kiev.
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  16. @reiner Tor
    I don't understand the ruling. Either they received the money, or they didn't. You might argue about the interest rates, but they should pay them back the principal immediately unless they accept its terms.

    What might complicate the issue is the Crimea, because Ukraine can argue that Russia broke a number of international treaties by annexing it, and so it's also not bound by financial law to pay back the bonds. You break a treaty, I break one, too, or something. But if it wasn't considered (and I don't think so; besides, no one is willing to accept this line of argument, since then for example Russia can say the same about the Helsinki Accords, which were broken by the US and its allies before Russia broke them), then the only way to understand the decision is as a political decision.

    Pretty much, but technically they aren’t breaking anything, yet. The Ukraine claimed that Russia “forced” it to accept a loan “under threat of violence”. Complete absurdity, so the court rejected this argumentation at first, but now a court of appeal ruled a new trial to see if Russia really did “force” its money on the Ukraine. And presumably if the “loan” is forced, than it doesn’t need to returned, or the terms have to be renegotiated – I don’t know how the English law works…

    One thing for certain though, this litigation could last for years. And even if Russia wins, current regime will refuse to pay. Realistically, the only way for Russia to extract this debt from the Ukraine is by installing a new government in Kiev.

    Read More
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  17. Mitleser says:

    * DW: Women increasingly drawn to right-wing populist parties, study shows. Hardly surprising – as I said, defining feature of female politics is that it is conformist. As right-wing parties become normalized, they’ll get more women by default.

    Do you want that?

    So, what is it that makes these parties so appealing to women? Elisa Gutsche, who edited the FES study, argued that many right-wing populist parties examined in the report seek to garner female votes by promising to strengthen the welfare system. “Parties say they will raise child benefit payments and make related allowances to promote families,” she said.

    It is pretty incontrovertible that women tilt moderately left relative to men on economic matters. For instance, the historical extension of female suffrage in the American states was associated with the accelerated growth of the welfare state in those regions (Lott & Kenny 1999).

    Right-wing populist parties tend to propagate an anachronistic image of femininity. However, that did not stop some 17 percent of women in eastern Germany from casting their ballot in favor of the AfD during the country’s 2017 parliamentary election; eight percent of women in western Germany did likewise.

    That is not much. More women voted for the FDP liberals and Greens.

    Only Götz Kubitschek might save Germany.

    Ganz anders als früher. Da traf sich bei diesen Akademien ein kleiner Haufen aus vernarbten Burschenschaftern, Anhängern der lateinischen Messe und bindungslos Suchenden, die allesamt nur dadurch verbunden waren, dass sie nicht links waren. Es waren fast nur junge Männer, und die meisten von ihnen wirkten eher linkisch und scheu.

    Quite different than before. At these academies, a small heap of scarred fraternities, followers of the Latin mass and non-binding seekers met , all of whom were connected only by the fact that they were not left. They were almost only young men, and most of them seemed rather clumsy and shy.

    Das hat sich geändert. Die heutigen Teilnehmer wirken im Vergleich zu damals ausgesprochen selbstbewusst. Bekenntnisse, ein Nationalist, ein Ethnopluralist oder ein Identitärer zu sein, hört man nicht verhuscht oder spätabends am Tresen, sondern am laufenden Band. Auch sind etliche Frauen dabei; sie machen etwa ein Fünftel der Teilnehmer aus. Wie ein gewöhnlicher Querschnitt wirkt die Gruppe dennoch nicht. Die Männer tragen Undercut und bevorzugen Marken, die bei Rechten schon immer beliebt waren, Turnschuhe von New Balance zum Beispiel oder Hemden von Fred Perry. Von den Frauen tragen viele Rock.

    That has changed. Today’s participants seem extremely self-confident in comparison to back then. Confessions to be a nationalist, an ethnopluralist or an identityist are not heard hushed up or late in the evening at the bar, but constantly. There are also a number of women in the band; they make up about one fifth of the participants. Nevertheless, the group doesn’t seem like an ordinary cross-section. The men wear undercut and prefer brands that have always been popular with rights, such as sneakers from New Balance or shirts from Fred Perry. Many women wear skirts.

    Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator

    https://www.nzz.ch/international/hauptsache-radikal-wie-der-verleger-goetz-kubitschek-die-afd-auf-seinen-kurs-bringt-ld.1419162

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  18. @Jason Liu
    TBH I wouldn't be surprised if the CCP really was holding a lot of Uyghurs in camps. Maybe not a million, but a lot. Everything about their rhetoric shows that they've been reading too many horror stories about rapefugees in Europe, and are now extra paranoid and cracking down everywhere. It's excessive IMO, and will probably create a cycle of violence + a shitty legacy in the future.

    The problem with Uyghurs is that you can’t exterminate them, being 15 million strong and rapidly growing. For better or worse, they are rapidly growing and are full Chinese citizens.

    I was looking at Google Earth, and it many of the Uyghur neighborhoods in Urumqi that were standing as late as 2014 were completely bulldozed. Empty land everywhere in the city center that don’t have construction on top as of 2017. This does suggest that re-education camps are likely a thing.

    Uyghurs will and likely are doubling down on their Islam at least in private, and eventually cause generations of resentment against the CCP and the Han Chinese as a whole. This resentment might even translate to a full-blown independence movement in the future and if it were ever successful, then good luck; China will have a hostile Islamic republic right at its borders.

    China can learn from Russia on how it solved its Chechen problem and apply it to Uyghurs. Some sort of autonomy/vassalage with a local Islamic Uyghur strongman that answers to Beijing but allowed to run the domestic policies of Xinjiang however he likes might be necessary. Ditto for Tibet.

    Read More
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  19. And I wonder how bad the November sanctions will be. If the third party sanctions against Iran are applied verbatim to Russia, it will definitely kick off a global recession. This combined with how MAGA didn’t really deliver, the sorry state of US-China relations, the Chinese credit bubble, the rapidly falling apart/decaying EU, and the various societal problems in the West as a whole, the 2020s might be a dark decade for this world.

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    • Agree: reiner Tor
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  20. I have more chilli peppers than I know what to do with (about 20 kg worth of it). Any ideas?

    Only one solution: you have to become an honorary Korean and subsist on a diet of kimchi for the rest of the year.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
    Or cook a massive Sichuan hotpot. And the flavor, spice levels, and oiliness is so strong that even rotten, spoiled meat and vegetables can still be edible if not delicious in a hotpot.

    If Anatoly Karlin is really the Sinophile he is, he should learn how to cook Sichuan hot pot, or even better, Chongqing-style Mao Xue Wang
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  21. The Economist clearly disappointed that China’s takeover of Siberia isn’t going to plan.

    But seriously, fuck China. Russia’s Far East can do just fine without Chinese investment, especially if it comes with various strings attached.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AquariusAnon
    I'm looking at Google Street View. There's too many possibly fake Gold/jewelry shops that clearly cater towards Chinese groups in Irkutsk and Vladivostok specifically. These have to be shut down and replaced by local SWPL businesses.

    All infrastructure supporting "zero dollar tourism" groups from China should be taken apart. They can be a huge impediment to the SWPLization of Russian cities: If these groups achieve critical mass in Russian cities (not yet but getting close if the 100% growth rate sustains any longer), then inevitably, local SWPL businesses might have to close and be replaced/priced out by Chinese businesses that cater towards these groups. And none of these businesses hire Russians anyways, using gasterbeiters when Chinese labor is too expensive, and all the money made in these stores get directly funneled back to China.

    Last thing you want is for Russian city centers to be lined with low-quality Chinese restaurants and shops selling discount cosmetics and jewelry that Russians don't even want to go to. This actually doesn't depend on relations with China, but directly variable on how many zero-dollar tourist groups pass through.

    Right now, this is the only tangible Sino-Russian "collaboration" project which is a looming disaster that not even the Chinese themselves appreciate. Technology can be bought from Japan and Korea since Chinese tech is still inferior nowadays anyways.

    Sino-Russian cooperation should be limited to military cooperation and having China as a large energy export market. Anything else such as tourism and infrastructure either damage the local "environment", or come with too many strings attached.

    , @A22
    Russia would probably be fine without any foreign investment if it could get its house in order and force domestic capital to invest inside. Maybe being shut from Western investments will force them finally to sort the situation.
    , @iffen
    So, is the "security apparatus" competent when dealing with the Chinks and incompetent when dealing with the Brits?
    , @utu
    A serious omission by security services. Xi and Putin have separate containers with bliny batter.
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  22. Matra says:
    @DFH
    https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/share-of-populace-living-in-apartments-select-european-countries-2012_chartbuilder.png?w=1240&strip=all&quality=75

    anglo_supremacy.jpg

    Tim Newman, a Welshman living in Paris, wrote about this subject recently: Apartments in Britain and France

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu

    In many cases, the problem of housing in Britain is not so much the type of accommodation but the mentality and quality of the tenants.
     
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  23. @Felix Keverich
    The Economist clearly disappointed that China's takeover of Siberia isn't going to plan.

    https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1040671383133532160

    But seriously, fuck China. Russia's Far East can do just fine without Chinese investment, especially if it comes with various strings attached.

    I’m looking at Google Street View. There’s too many possibly fake Gold/jewelry shops that clearly cater towards Chinese groups in Irkutsk and Vladivostok specifically. These have to be shut down and replaced by local SWPL businesses.

    All infrastructure supporting “zero dollar tourism” groups from China should be taken apart. They can be a huge impediment to the SWPLization of Russian cities: If these groups achieve critical mass in Russian cities (not yet but getting close if the 100% growth rate sustains any longer), then inevitably, local SWPL businesses might have to close and be replaced/priced out by Chinese businesses that cater towards these groups. And none of these businesses hire Russians anyways, using gasterbeiters when Chinese labor is too expensive, and all the money made in these stores get directly funneled back to China.

    Last thing you want is for Russian city centers to be lined with low-quality Chinese restaurants and shops selling discount cosmetics and jewelry that Russians don’t even want to go to. This actually doesn’t depend on relations with China, but directly variable on how many zero-dollar tourist groups pass through.

    Right now, this is the only tangible Sino-Russian “collaboration” project which is a looming disaster that not even the Chinese themselves appreciate. Technology can be bought from Japan and Korea since Chinese tech is still inferior nowadays anyways.

    Sino-Russian cooperation should be limited to military cooperation and having China as a large energy export market. Anything else such as tourism and infrastructure either damage the local “environment”, or come with too many strings attached.

    Read More
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  24. @anonymous coward

    I have more chilli peppers than I know what to do with (about 20 kg worth of it). Any ideas?
     
    Only one solution: you have to become an honorary Korean and subsist on a diet of kimchi for the rest of the year.

    Or cook a massive Sichuan hotpot. And the flavor, spice levels, and oiliness is so strong that even rotten, spoiled meat and vegetables can still be edible if not delicious in a hotpot.

    If Anatoly Karlin is really the Sinophile he is, he should learn how to cook Sichuan hot pot, or even better, Chongqing-style Mao Xue Wang

    Read More
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  25. A22 says:
    @Felix Keverich
    The Economist clearly disappointed that China's takeover of Siberia isn't going to plan.

    https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1040671383133532160

    But seriously, fuck China. Russia's Far East can do just fine without Chinese investment, especially if it comes with various strings attached.

    Russia would probably be fine without any foreign investment if it could get its house in order and force domestic capital to invest inside. Maybe being shut from Western investments will force them finally to sort the situation.

    Read More
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  26. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH
    https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/share-of-populace-living-in-apartments-select-european-countries-2012_chartbuilder.png?w=1240&strip=all&quality=75

    anglo_supremacy.jpg

    Don’t most people in the UK live in “terrace housing”? Whenever you see pictures of terrace housing or see them on TV or in movies, they’re very crummy looking. And they look cramped and not much more spacious if at all than apartments.

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k
    You own the freehold which is the main point, so there's no condo b.s. and nobody living above or below you (unless it's been converted into flats). Terraced houses are just three or more housed joined together, they can be as crummy or as nice as it gets (see below). They were generally built in the 19th century so you have a tradeoff of cold/damp with much more elaborate decoration; whinging about the former and under-appreciating the latter is a class marker.

    Crap:
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.7972787,-2.2466764,3a,75y,65.93h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snVqyDM91FscnQpO5mbZsBA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DnVqyDM91FscnQpO5mbZsBA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D52.899334%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    Middling
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.1980577,-2.2203306,3a,75y,232.48h,86.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sH3Hhea3EluXZtu0zftmFSA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DH3Hhea3EluXZtu0zftmFSA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D110.85073%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    Upper-Middling
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5794498,-0.1114396,3a,75y,144.02h,87.44t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sR_Gm3R7U41go__-D-9KCPg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DR_Gm3R7U41go__-D-9KCPg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D70.0201%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656


    Oligarchic
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5223773,-0.1484968,3a,75y,175.89h,89.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1se5OoFmewK5MjLuJAsG1_Kg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3De5OoFmewK5MjLuJAsG1_Kg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D26.981493%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    , @DFH
    No, about 10% of people live in small terraced houses (>70m2), 20% in larger terraced houses, 26% in detached and 17% in detached. But even terraced houses are significantly larger on average than flats.
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  27. Winston says:

    You may be interested in this article by Bloomberg as a Sinotriumphalist:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-12/chinese-researchers-are-outperforming-americans-in-science

    The researchers adjusted for both factors and conclude that Chinese academics now account for more than one-third of global publications in these scientific fields.

    Read More
    • Replies: @neutral
    How many of those researchers are really American? One can be sure that when they say "Chinese researchers" it means Chinese people, for "American" it means a lot of non whites such as Indians and Chinese.
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  28. iffen says:
    @g2k
    Given just how much of a busted flush the trump administration has been, a blue wave will hardly be the end of the world. The longer he's in office the bigger the backlash will be when he eventually does go. At this point in time his policies are not different to what Hilary's would've been. For all the pre-election talk of cuckservatism, at least Bush family, Romney et. al were slightly upfront and honest about their agenda. It's looking more and more likely that his campaign promises werejust a pack of lies. He is to the populist right what Tsipras is to the populist left.

    At this point in time his policies are not different to what Hilary’s would’ve been.

    Idiot thinking like this got us to this point.

    Read More
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  29. iffen says:
    @Felix Keverich
    The Economist clearly disappointed that China's takeover of Siberia isn't going to plan.

    https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1040671383133532160

    But seriously, fuck China. Russia's Far East can do just fine without Chinese investment, especially if it comes with various strings attached.

    So, is the “security apparatus” competent when dealing with the Chinks and incompetent when dealing with the Brits?

    Read More
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  30. Use some of it to make a big jar of chili oil. Dry it out along with some garlic, cinnamon, star anise, whatever herb you find fragrant and aromatic, and dump it into some sizzling hot vegetable oil.

    A chili vinagette is also nice for cold foods. Fresh chillies, soy sauce, sugar, vinegar, maybe a dab of sesame oil if you like.

    Read More
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  31. neutral says:
    @Winston
    You may be interested in this article by Bloomberg as a Sinotriumphalist:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-12/chinese-researchers-are-outperforming-americans-in-science

    The researchers adjusted for both factors and conclude that Chinese academics now account for more than one-third of global publications in these scientific fields.
     

    How many of those researchers are really American? One can be sure that when they say “Chinese researchers” it means Chinese people, for “American” it means a lot of non whites such as Indians and Chinese.

    Read More
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  32. g2k says:
    @Anonymous
    Don't most people in the UK live in "terrace housing"? Whenever you see pictures of terrace housing or see them on TV or in movies, they're very crummy looking. And they look cramped and not much more spacious if at all than apartments.

    You own the freehold which is the main point, so there’s no condo b.s. and nobody living above or below you (unless it’s been converted into flats). Terraced houses are just three or more housed joined together, they can be as crummy or as nice as it gets (see below). They were generally built in the 19th century so you have a tradeoff of cold/damp with much more elaborate decoration; whinging about the former and under-appreciating the latter is a class marker.

    Crap:

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.7972787,-2.2466764,3a,75y,65.93h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snVqyDM91FscnQpO5mbZsBA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DnVqyDM91FscnQpO5mbZsBA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D52.899334%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    Middling

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.1980577,-2.2203306,3a,75y,232.48h,86.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sH3Hhea3EluXZtu0zftmFSA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DH3Hhea3EluXZtu0zftmFSA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D110.85073%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    Upper-Middling

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5794498,-0.1114396,3a,75y,144.02h,87.44t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sR_Gm3R7U41go__-D-9KCPg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DR_Gm3R7U41go__-D-9KCPg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D70.0201%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    Oligarchic

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5223773,-0.1484968,3a,75y,175.89h,89.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1se5OoFmewK5MjLuJAsG1_Kg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3De5OoFmewK5MjLuJAsG1_Kg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D26.981493%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH

    They were generally built in the 19th century
     
    No, I think they were mostly built post-1918 if not later. Earlier terraced housing was generally destroyed in slum clearance programs.
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  33. utu says:

    chilli peppers? Marinate them as wholes or chop them, or grind them and make yourself some pepper souse that after pasteurization you can preserve.

    Homemade Tabasco Sauce

    Homemade Sriracha

    Hot Pepper Sauce (Cach Lam Tuong Ot)

    HOMEMADE CHILI GARLIC SAUCE RECIPE (TUONG OT TOI)

    https://www.vietworldkitchen.com/blog/2007/10/homemade-chili.html

    Read More
    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    This is the nicest that I've seen you be to Mr. Karlin.
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  34. Not Raul says:

    Re the NYT letter: I agree that Nikki is one of the top suspects. Also Kellyanne Conway (one of Cruz’s people). Another suspect to consider is Raj Shah, who scored high on the Cosine measure. Raj Shah wasn’t a fan of Trump prior to the election http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/white-house-official-called-trump-a-deplorable.html

    Read More
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  35. Rosie says:

    Does anyone know what’s going on in Sweden?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail

    Does anyone know what’s going on in Sweden?
     
    https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201809131068010284-eu-migrant-conservative-rise/
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  36. Talha says:

    Where are Thor and Greasy?

    Also, meat 2.0…

    I learned about this from a Mufti who is researching on technical details to determine whether it can be made halal.

    Peace.

    Read More
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  37. @utu
    chilli peppers? Marinate them as wholes or chop them, or grind them and make yourself some pepper souse that after pasteurization you can preserve.

    Homemade Tabasco Sauce
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD1unKaCiFk

    Homemade Sriracha
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7TsUKAvqSs

    Hot Pepper Sauce (Cach Lam Tuong Ot)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ibaRvYp7vc

    HOMEMADE CHILI GARLIC SAUCE RECIPE (TUONG OT TOI)
    https://www.vietworldkitchen.com/blog/2007/10/homemade-chili.html

    This is the nicest that I’ve seen you be to Mr. Karlin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Everybody deserves a good chili sauce. And I gathered that he likes hot foods as he complained that he found some foods not hot enough. And now comes a dig and criticism. The hot food fade in America that is fairly recent and has some macho element so it took off among young male population has potentially a negative effect of slowing down development of appreciation of more sophisticated foods and cuisines that will appear too bland and too mild to aficionados of hot dishes.
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  38. utu says:
    @Felix Keverich
    The Economist clearly disappointed that China's takeover of Siberia isn't going to plan.

    https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1040671383133532160

    But seriously, fuck China. Russia's Far East can do just fine without Chinese investment, especially if it comes with various strings attached.

    A serious omission by security services. Xi and Putin have separate containers with bliny batter.

    Read More
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  39. utu says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    This is the nicest that I've seen you be to Mr. Karlin.

    Everybody deserves a good chili sauce. And I gathered that he likes hot foods as he complained that he found some foods not hot enough. And now comes a dig and criticism. The hot food fade in America that is fairly recent and has some macho element so it took off among young male population has potentially a negative effect of slowing down development of appreciation of more sophisticated foods and cuisines that will appear too bland and too mild to aficionados of hot dishes.

    Read More
    • LOL: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I don't think that it is limited to a "macho" element; there's also the effect of capsaicin which triggers a pain response that eventually dulls, but the release of endorphins isn't necessarily dulled, essentially associating it with a kind of pleasure and excitement. So that's one. But another interesting link is the idea that loving hot foods is linked with "risk-taking" attitudes, which is less well known and pretty interesting:

    http://nautil.us/issue/35/boundaries/why-revolutionaries-love-spicy-food

    I don't think that any of us could accuse Mr. Karlin, who uses his real name to write crime-thinking, to be a blushy conformist. Perhaps he gets his fire from eating fire.
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  40. To Be German Is to Be Strong
    by Gertrud Scholtz-Klink

    http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/scholtz-klink2.htm

    Read More
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  41. @utu
    Everybody deserves a good chili sauce. And I gathered that he likes hot foods as he complained that he found some foods not hot enough. And now comes a dig and criticism. The hot food fade in America that is fairly recent and has some macho element so it took off among young male population has potentially a negative effect of slowing down development of appreciation of more sophisticated foods and cuisines that will appear too bland and too mild to aficionados of hot dishes.

    I don’t think that it is limited to a “macho” element; there’s also the effect of capsaicin which triggers a pain response that eventually dulls, but the release of endorphins isn’t necessarily dulled, essentially associating it with a kind of pleasure and excitement. So that’s one. But another interesting link is the idea that loving hot foods is linked with “risk-taking” attitudes, which is less well known and pretty interesting:

    http://nautil.us/issue/35/boundaries/why-revolutionaries-love-spicy-food

    I don’t think that any of us could accuse Mr. Karlin, who uses his real name to write crime-thinking, to be a blushy conformist. Perhaps he gets his fire from eating fire.

    Read More
    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @utu
    I was in a Thai restaurant in Santa Monica, CA with a Thai woman and she ordered for herself something extra hot and while eating it she was crying and tears were running down on her face. When I asked her why she did it to herself, she said: "I like it that way", but she did not offer any deeper insights.

    Mao here

    The Soviet agent’s tender taste buds invited Mao’s mockery. “The food of the true revolutionary is the red pepper,” declared Mao. “And he who cannot endure red peppers is also unable to fight.’ ”

     
    exemplifies exactly what I was saying, i.e., the machismo projected on the ability to eat hot food or say for Russians the ability to drink pure alcohol. In both cases it is very infantile. Revolutionaries usually have infantile narcissism and sociopathy. Insensitivity and cruelty one can see among children.
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  42. It would not be the end of Trump is the Demoshits take both houses(unlikely and in the senate its hard to say who will win). If a democratic congress does nothing but impeach and obstruct Trump they will lose credibility.

    Read More
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  43. utu says:
    @Daniel Chieh
    I don't think that it is limited to a "macho" element; there's also the effect of capsaicin which triggers a pain response that eventually dulls, but the release of endorphins isn't necessarily dulled, essentially associating it with a kind of pleasure and excitement. So that's one. But another interesting link is the idea that loving hot foods is linked with "risk-taking" attitudes, which is less well known and pretty interesting:

    http://nautil.us/issue/35/boundaries/why-revolutionaries-love-spicy-food

    I don't think that any of us could accuse Mr. Karlin, who uses his real name to write crime-thinking, to be a blushy conformist. Perhaps he gets his fire from eating fire.

    I was in a Thai restaurant in Santa Monica, CA with a Thai woman and she ordered for herself something extra hot and while eating it she was crying and tears were running down on her face. When I asked her why she did it to herself, she said: “I like it that way”, but she did not offer any deeper insights.

    Mao here

    The Soviet agent’s tender taste buds invited Mao’s mockery. “The food of the true revolutionary is the red pepper,” declared Mao. “And he who cannot endure red peppers is also unable to fight.’ ”


    exemplifies exactly what I was saying, i.e., the machismo projected on the ability to eat hot food or say for Russians the ability to drink pure alcohol. In both cases it is very infantile. Revolutionaries usually have infantile narcissism and sociopathy. Insensitivity and cruelty one can see among children.

    Read More
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  44. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Rosie
    Does anyone know what's going on in Sweden?
    Read More
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  45. Mikhail says: • Website

    Given that is is an open thread, here’s an article which debunks the misinformation concerning Crimea:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/07092018-consistency-and-reality-lacking-on-crimea-analysis/

    Among the highlights being the selective BS about a so-called “illegal annexation” of Crimea and the repeated false claim that the Crimean Tatars are “indigenous” to Crimea , along the lines of the Indians in the Western Hemisphere.

    Pointed comments at JRL, JRL court appointed Russia friendly regulars, Umland and Bandow.

    Counterpunch being somewhat ironic:

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/12/the-latest-fake-news-on-vietnam/

    They’ve a point, while also having its own shortcomings that include carrying Louis Proyect’s fault ridden commentary on (among some other things) Russo-Ukrainian matters.

    Somewhat related:

    http://www.unz.com/article/antifa-or-antiwar-leftist-exclusionism-against-the-quest-for-peace/

    Read More
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  46. DFH says:
    @g2k
    You own the freehold which is the main point, so there's no condo b.s. and nobody living above or below you (unless it's been converted into flats). Terraced houses are just three or more housed joined together, they can be as crummy or as nice as it gets (see below). They were generally built in the 19th century so you have a tradeoff of cold/damp with much more elaborate decoration; whinging about the former and under-appreciating the latter is a class marker.

    Crap:
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.7972787,-2.2466764,3a,75y,65.93h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1snVqyDM91FscnQpO5mbZsBA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DnVqyDM91FscnQpO5mbZsBA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D52.899334%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    Middling
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.1980577,-2.2203306,3a,75y,232.48h,86.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sH3Hhea3EluXZtu0zftmFSA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DH3Hhea3EluXZtu0zftmFSA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D110.85073%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    Upper-Middling
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5794498,-0.1114396,3a,75y,144.02h,87.44t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sR_Gm3R7U41go__-D-9KCPg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DR_Gm3R7U41go__-D-9KCPg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D70.0201%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656


    Oligarchic
    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5223773,-0.1484968,3a,75y,175.89h,89.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1se5OoFmewK5MjLuJAsG1_Kg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3De5OoFmewK5MjLuJAsG1_Kg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D26.981493%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

    They were generally built in the 19th century

    No, I think they were mostly built post-1918 if not later. Earlier terraced housing was generally destroyed in slum clearance programs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k
    1All those examples are victorian, or at least Edwardian. Almost all back to back terraces and a large number of otherwise decent ones did get destroyed in slum clearance programs, but a lot survived and middle class ones were generally untouched.

    We had a huge building boom in the 1930s, but most of the houses built then were semi-detached (2 houses stuck together).

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  47. DFH says:
    @Anonymous
    Don't most people in the UK live in "terrace housing"? Whenever you see pictures of terrace housing or see them on TV or in movies, they're very crummy looking. And they look cramped and not much more spacious if at all than apartments.

    No, about 10% of people live in small terraced houses (>70m2), 20% in larger terraced houses, 26% in detached and 17% in detached. But even terraced houses are significantly larger on average than flats.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well apartments can be nicer than houses, just as houses can be nicer than apartments - so I don't think the UK can fairly be proud that it has more houses.

    Would you rather large apartment in Knightsbridge, or small house in East London?

    It depends on the house, and on the apartment, and on the area.

    The category house/apartment is not the determining factor in which is better. So neither is proportion of one or the other (house/apartment), determining which countries have better housing quality.

    , @utu
    Avg home sizes:

    UK 76 sqm
    Ireland 88 sqm
    France 113 sqm
    Denmark 137 sqm
    Australia 206 sqm

    New built 3 bedroom homes in UK. 80-90 sqm.

    Here is another source:

    ENGLAND HAS THE SMALLEST AVERAGE HOME IN EUROPE, NEW RESEARCH SAYS
    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/england-smallest-homes-in-europe-canada-largest-hong-kong-smallest-world-find-me-a-floor-a7597636.html
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  48. Dmitry says:

    Different use level of chili between Japan and China – I feel another sign of Japanese higher civilization over China.

    In Japan, there is generally enough attention to ingredients quality and freshness, that they do not need to hide the taste of food with chili. And food (unlike Northern Europe) nonetheless not mediocre.

    An extreme case of the opposite, in India, where they invent elaborate and extreme spices in order to cleverly allow themselves to enjoy eating decayed food.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Japanese cuisine plays on much narrower range than the Chinese cuisine. Japan does use chilies very sparingly if at all. But there are regions in China where chilis are also not used. Some Chinese dishes are delicate and subtle that could belong to Japanese cuisine. Eg. shark fin soup, winter melon soup, snow pea tip salad and many dim sums like think skin dumplings with broth inside or har gow with delicate shrimp or eggplant. Chinese cuisine is huge land vast ike China itself consisting of many different symphonic orchestras while Japan is more like several string quartets and one chamber music orchestra peopled with virtuosos who will master subtle Chopin Mazurkas rather than loud and hard Rachmaninoff.

    It is interesting that chilis have been around just 300-400 years outside of Mexico and Central America. Even in Szechuan they did not have chilis though nobody in Szechuan would believe it. Hot capsaicin food is not original for Thai, Indian or Vietnamese food. Nobody associated paprika with Hungary 200 years ago. Perhaps one day Norwegian or Czech cuisine will be spicy and hot.

    As far as middle class Europeans in affluent Central and Northern Europe they might be the most sophisticated home cooks who try all kinds of new trends and have access to the most exotic and expensive ingredients. There is yuppie and hipster hype and pretentiousness that goes with it but still they are expanding the range and inflate expectations for good. It was yuppies who restored the culture of good coffee, good chocolate, good beer and good bread in America starting in 1980s that has been lost during the period of unbound optimism into the industrialization and modernity promoted by American corporations. The whole animal, nose-to-tail movement in America is another positive sign of the reconquista of the past that was lost in the 2nd half of the 20 century.
    , @Clyde
    Different use level of chili between Japan and China – I feel another sign of Japanese higher civilization over China.

    I actually agree with you and I am not a fan of Japanese food. Heavy use of hot peppers is a sign of lowness and stupidity. It's hilarious how silly spoiled American white women have made thousands of Japanese and Koreans into wealthy millionaires with their bs sushi restaurants. All because these women think sushi will not make you fat.
    You know that by now Koreans own more US sushi restaurants than do Nips. As far as NE Asian cuisine goes I like Chinese food and Korean kim-chi.

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  49. Dmitry says:
    @DFH
    No, about 10% of people live in small terraced houses (>70m2), 20% in larger terraced houses, 26% in detached and 17% in detached. But even terraced houses are significantly larger on average than flats.

    Well apartments can be nicer than houses, just as houses can be nicer than apartments – so I don’t think the UK can fairly be proud that it has more houses.

    Would you rather large apartment in Knightsbridge, or small house in East London?

    It depends on the house, and on the apartment, and on the area.

    The category house/apartment is not the determining factor in which is better. So neither is proportion of one or the other (house/apartment), determining which countries have better housing quality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k
    At this stage of london's gentrification there's not much between Knightsbridge and east London apart from its reputation amongst foreigners who don't know better. If you were to say Luton, Slough, Chatham then you'd have a point.
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  50. utu says:
    @DFH
    No, about 10% of people live in small terraced houses (>70m2), 20% in larger terraced houses, 26% in detached and 17% in detached. But even terraced houses are significantly larger on average than flats.

    Avg home sizes:

    UK 76 sqm
    Ireland 88 sqm
    France 113 sqm
    Denmark 137 sqm
    Australia 206 sqm

    New built 3 bedroom homes in UK. 80-90 sqm.

    Here is another source:

    ENGLAND HAS THE SMALLEST AVERAGE HOME IN EUROPE, NEW RESEARCH SAYS

    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/england-smallest-homes-in-europe-canada-largest-hong-kong-smallest-world-find-me-a-floor-a7597636.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH
    The average size is 91m2 according to the government source I linked previously. Most British homes also have gardens, unlike in continental countries.
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  51. DFH says:
    @utu
    Avg home sizes:

    UK 76 sqm
    Ireland 88 sqm
    France 113 sqm
    Denmark 137 sqm
    Australia 206 sqm

    New built 3 bedroom homes in UK. 80-90 sqm.

    Here is another source:

    ENGLAND HAS THE SMALLEST AVERAGE HOME IN EUROPE, NEW RESEARCH SAYS
    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/england-smallest-homes-in-europe-canada-largest-hong-kong-smallest-world-find-me-a-floor-a7597636.html

    The average size is 91m2 according to the government source I linked previously. Most British homes also have gardens, unlike in continental countries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    https://blogs-images.forbes.com/bruceupbin/files/2011/07/46216562_houses_466_4.gif

    UK has smaller houses/apartments than Japan>Spain>Germany>France>Denmark>Canada>US>Australia

    https://www.elledecor.com/life-culture/fun-at-home/news/a7654/house-sizes-around-the-world/


    So I think this is correct:

    ENGLAND HAS THE SMALLEST AVERAGE HOME IN EUROPE, NEW RESEARCH SAYS
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  52. g2k says:
    @DFH

    They were generally built in the 19th century
     
    No, I think they were mostly built post-1918 if not later. Earlier terraced housing was generally destroyed in slum clearance programs.

    1All those examples are victorian, or at least Edwardian. Almost all back to back terraces and a large number of otherwise decent ones did get destroyed in slum clearance programs, but a lot survived and middle class ones were generally untouched.

    We had a huge building boom in the 1930s, but most of the houses built then were semi-detached (2 houses stuck together).

    Read More
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  53. g2k says:
    @Dmitry
    Well apartments can be nicer than houses, just as houses can be nicer than apartments - so I don't think the UK can fairly be proud that it has more houses.

    Would you rather large apartment in Knightsbridge, or small house in East London?

    It depends on the house, and on the apartment, and on the area.

    The category house/apartment is not the determining factor in which is better. So neither is proportion of one or the other (house/apartment), determining which countries have better housing quality.

    At this stage of london’s gentrification there’s not much between Knightsbridge and east London apart from its reputation amongst foreigners who don’t know better. If you were to say Luton, Slough, Chatham then you’d have a point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    At this stage of london’s gentrification there’s not much between Knightsbridge and east London apart from its reputation amongst foreigners who don’t know better.

    I have a friend who lives in East London just south of Victoria Park. It's a very nice area, I would prefer to live there than in Central London.
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  54. utu says:
    @Dmitry
    Different use level of chili between Japan and China - I feel another sign of Japanese higher civilization over China.

    In Japan, there is generally enough attention to ingredients quality and freshness, that they do not need to hide the taste of food with chili. And food (unlike Northern Europe) nonetheless not mediocre.

    An extreme case of the opposite, in India, where they invent elaborate and extreme spices in order to cleverly allow themselves to enjoy eating decayed food.

    Japanese cuisine plays on much narrower range than the Chinese cuisine. Japan does use chilies very sparingly if at all. But there are regions in China where chilis are also not used. Some Chinese dishes are delicate and subtle that could belong to Japanese cuisine. Eg. shark fin soup, winter melon soup, snow pea tip salad and many dim sums like think skin dumplings with broth inside or har gow with delicate shrimp or eggplant. Chinese cuisine is huge land vast ike China itself consisting of many different symphonic orchestras while Japan is more like several string quartets and one chamber music orchestra peopled with virtuosos who will master subtle Chopin Mazurkas rather than loud and hard Rachmaninoff.

    It is interesting that chilis have been around just 300-400 years outside of Mexico and Central America. Even in Szechuan they did not have chilis though nobody in Szechuan would believe it. Hot capsaicin food is not original for Thai, Indian or Vietnamese food. Nobody associated paprika with Hungary 200 years ago. Perhaps one day Norwegian or Czech cuisine will be spicy and hot.

    As far as middle class Europeans in affluent Central and Northern Europe they might be the most sophisticated home cooks who try all kinds of new trends and have access to the most exotic and expensive ingredients. There is yuppie and hipster hype and pretentiousness that goes with it but still they are expanding the range and inflate expectations for good. It was yuppies who restored the culture of good coffee, good chocolate, good beer and good bread in America starting in 1980s that has been lost during the period of unbound optimism into the industrialization and modernity promoted by American corporations. The whole animal, nose-to-tail movement in America is another positive sign of the reconquista of the past that was lost in the 2nd half of the 20 century.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Yes things are already different in the last 20 years. All over Northern Europe, the bourgeoisie is rapidly including and producing many connoisseurs, and driving many improvements in cuisine.

    And accelerated now the changes a lot, the internet. The existence of online reviews is raising restaurant standards. And YouTube is spreading every nation's secret recipes, so a fellow in Sweden can cook pasta the same way as a Sicilian.

    But if we remember back to 20 years ago, before the internet and before the present level of connoisseurship - how much worse it was.

    -

    I had strong example in childhood.

    I remember my grandparents collected large amounts (baskets) of chanterelles (lisichki).

    Afterwards lazily put them in a pan, covered with cream (also with cheese?), where they soaked some unpleasant flavours. The result was eating unpleasant tasting cream with soggy but difficult to bite mushrooms.

    Later, visiting London, and walking through Harrods food court, we were shocked seeing the price of these same ones in London (where they are something like $150 for a basket of them). I was thinking "these don't even taste good".

    Obviously French or Italian style chefs, were turning this mushroom into masterpieces of cuisine, that people pay a lot for. Yet grandparents are turning this into soggy food, that you don't even like. The end result of whatever Italians are doing with this, and what your grandparents do, is something vast.

    However, nowadays with the internet - these gaps can be very easily closed. I'm sure Italians will still have a little more skill, but the knowledge gap can be closed with only 1 minute on the search engine.

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  55. utu says:
    @Matra
    Tim Newman, a Welshman living in Paris, wrote about this subject recently: Apartments in Britain and France

    In many cases, the problem of housing in Britain is not so much the type of accommodation but the mentality and quality of the tenants.

    Read More
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  56. Humor:

    Now in South Africa, firearms are so frequently needed that the courier services provide a dedicated “favorites” button for you to send guns.

    https://www.ram.co.za/

    Read More
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  57. utu says:
    @DFH
    The average size is 91m2 according to the government source I linked previously. Most British homes also have gardens, unlike in continental countries.

    UK has smaller houses/apartments than Japan>Spain>Germany>France>Denmark>Canada>US>Australia

    https://www.elledecor.com/life-culture/fun-at-home/news/a7654/house-sizes-around-the-world/

    So I think this is correct:

    ENGLAND HAS THE SMALLEST AVERAGE HOME IN EUROPE, NEW RESEARCH SAYS

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH
    The picture you linked is only for newly built houses, and the study just looks at houses rather than average dwelling size (i.e. it seems to exclude flats).
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  58. DFH says:
    @utu
    https://blogs-images.forbes.com/bruceupbin/files/2011/07/46216562_houses_466_4.gif

    UK has smaller houses/apartments than Japan>Spain>Germany>France>Denmark>Canada>US>Australia

    https://www.elledecor.com/life-culture/fun-at-home/news/a7654/house-sizes-around-the-world/


    So I think this is correct:

    ENGLAND HAS THE SMALLEST AVERAGE HOME IN EUROPE, NEW RESEARCH SAYS

    The picture you linked is only for newly built houses, and the study just looks at houses rather than average dwelling size (i.e. it seems to exclude flats).

    Read More
    • Replies: @ERM
    I've been in about a dozen British homes and all but one was a pokey shithole. I live in an apartment with 14 foot ceilings in an Art-Nouveau building in one of the countries toward the top of that list. And it apparently has more square footage than a new-built British house. Feels good, man.
    , @utu
    Overcrowding rate (2016) - One of the key dimensions in assessing the quality of housing is the availability of sufficient space in a dwelling. The overcrowding rate describes the proportion of people living in an overcrowded dwelling, as defined by the number of rooms available to the household, the household’s size, as well as its members’ ages and their family situation.

    UK>France>Germany>Finland>Spain>Netherlands>Belgium>Ireland
     
    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Housing_statistics

    The major point here is that Spain has lower overcrowding than UK despite of the fact that majority of housings are apartments unlike in the UK. The houses in UK must be smaller than apartments in Spain or Spaniards pack less people in them than Brits in their houses. Personally I do not care this way or another though from my own experience from living in several European countries I find UK somewhat worse than other countries I lived in. The reason I keep up at it because your Anglo sovok like attitude in your comment #3 (anglo_supremacy.jpg) rubs me wrong way.
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  59. ERM says:
    @DFH
    The picture you linked is only for newly built houses, and the study just looks at houses rather than average dwelling size (i.e. it seems to exclude flats).

    I’ve been in about a dozen British homes and all but one was a pokey shithole. I live in an apartment with 14 foot ceilings in an Art-Nouveau building in one of the countries toward the top of that list. And it apparently has more square footage than a new-built British house. Feels good, man.

    Read More
    • Agree: utu
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  60. Unintentionally hillarious anti-Poland video:

    “Poland, once the EU’s most promising new addition, is threatening to undermine the whole thing”
    “white supremacy”, “authoritarianism”
    “how did this happen, and can it be stopped?”

    The globalists seem increasibly annoyed with Poland. Good.

    Read More
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  61. utu says:
    @DFH
    The picture you linked is only for newly built houses, and the study just looks at houses rather than average dwelling size (i.e. it seems to exclude flats).

    Overcrowding rate (2016) – One of the key dimensions in assessing the quality of housing is the availability of sufficient space in a dwelling. The overcrowding rate describes the proportion of people living in an overcrowded dwelling, as defined by the number of rooms available to the household, the household’s size, as well as its members’ ages and their family situation.

    UK>France>Germany>Finland>Spain>Netherlands>Belgium>Ireland

    https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Housing_statistics

    The major point here is that Spain has lower overcrowding than UK despite of the fact that majority of housings are apartments unlike in the UK. The houses in UK must be smaller than apartments in Spain or Spaniards pack less people in them than Brits in their houses. Personally I do not care this way or another though from my own experience from living in several European countries I find UK somewhat worse than other countries I lived in. The reason I keep up at it because your Anglo sovok like attitude in your comment #3 (anglo_supremacy.jpg) rubs me wrong way.

    Read More
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  62. @g2k
    At this stage of london's gentrification there's not much between Knightsbridge and east London apart from its reputation amongst foreigners who don't know better. If you were to say Luton, Slough, Chatham then you'd have a point.

    At this stage of london’s gentrification there’s not much between Knightsbridge and east London apart from its reputation amongst foreigners who don’t know better.

    I have a friend who lives in East London just south of Victoria Park. It’s a very nice area, I would prefer to live there than in Central London.

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k
    Nice park, shame about the lido, when they rebuild that thing, he'll know that his neighborhood has truely gentrified.
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  63. 22pp22 says:

    Dry the chilis and make them into kimchi.

    Read More
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  64. g2k says:
    @for-the-record
    At this stage of london’s gentrification there’s not much between Knightsbridge and east London apart from its reputation amongst foreigners who don’t know better.

    I have a friend who lives in East London just south of Victoria Park. It's a very nice area, I would prefer to live there than in Central London.

    Nice park, shame about the lido, when they rebuild that thing, he’ll know that his neighborhood has truely gentrified.

    Read More
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  65. Mikhail says: • Website

    Travis Tygart, Shyster Bigot

    Re: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-anti-doping-agency-slams-move-to-reinstate-russian-anti-doping-agency-1537009200

    You can get the full article for free by cutting and pasting the article’s title and clicking into it via a Google search result.

    Regarding the below, Tygart’s idea of “full disclosure” is quite two faced, given the lack of evidence that he has supported as a means of collective punishment against Russians.

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/09022018-western-chauvinism-against-russia-gone-berserk-oped/

    Excerpt -

    “On the US based National Public Radio, I heard the WADA connected American legal sports politico Travis Tygart (in rather self serving fashion) suggest his objectivity, by noting how he went after the legendary American cyclist Lance Armstrong. This is sheer BS, as Tygart never advocated banning all American cyclists and-or all US athletes from major competition. In comparison, Tygart (along with Canadian sports legal politico Dick Pound and some other pious blowhards) have favored a collective ban on all Russian athletes.

    The likes of Tygart have a committed track record of extreme bias against Russia.”

    ————————

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/12072016-russian-track-and-field-athletes-face-an-ongoing-ordeal-analysis/

    Excerpt -

    There’s something fishy in the way the Russian athletics (track and field) team has been covered. Suspect coverage is prone to greater acceptance, when the targeted group lacks clout to offset the permeating biases against them. Along with such establishment journalists as Christine Brennan and Matthew Futterman, past and present WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) officials like Canadian attorney Dick Pound and American attorney Travis Tygart, make blanket statements that essentially constitute a form of ethnic profiling.”

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  66. Mikhail says: • Website

    Re: https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-orthodox-church-cuts-ties-with-bartholomew/29491457.html

    Going back to Yushchenko’s presidency, there’ve been efforts to undercut pro-Russian sentiment within the UOC, which is loosely affiliated with the Moscow Patriarchate.

    Read More
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  67. Nznz says: • Website

    KippSince this is an open thread, what is going through anyone’s head who thinks that China’s GDP will not top out at 20000 per head at today’s dollars, after which growth will slow to 2 percent or 3 percent per year, Taiwan’s GDP per capita is at 25000 USD, can anyone here give a solid case as to why China’s GDP per head will be anywhere near Taiwan’s considering all of the poorer provinces in the interior that shows no signs of catching up? That is not considering that the possibility that China will enter a recession in the near future due to its debt of 800 percent of GDP according to some estimates or at least enter a japanese style prolonged growth slowdown to 2 percent per year as it deleverages it’s debt pile. And the China bulls (or maybe BSers) here failed to answer as to how China will deal with its declining birth rate and ageing population.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    A China with 20,000 gdp per capita will be quite similar to the more developed areas of Eastern Europe. In the global scale of things, it's a pretty nice living standard especially with few dysfunctional violent minorities. It would also mean that Chinese GDP in aggregate will be around 50% bigger than the US.

    As for the poorer provinces not catching up. This isn't even true. This is akin to saying a Red scarf is Blue, ergo you are wrong. Figures for provincial level GDP data is available. Between 2011 and 2017, those provinces with nominal GDP per capita greater than the national average expanded 46.3% those with less than the average grew 54.9%. Developmental growth from rural to industrial always increases economic differentials between the more productive regions and less productive ones until a tipping point is reached where investment becomes more productive in the more underdeveloped areas.

    You other points were addressed in the previous thread if you bothered to actually read them.
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  68. Bebe25 says: • Website

    The problem with somebody saying that the factions of the alright is that the goals of the various factions of the altright are not compatible with each other, basically the long term goals of WNs are not compatible with IQists here who put IQ scores above racial solidarity, so the IQs who refuse to put racial survival before IQ will need to be destroyed and eradicated, the same goes for transhumanists who want to destroy humanity and turn everyobe into cyborgs they too much must destroyed, as for the feminists depending on what the specific content of their ideology is, and who sane they are, then might be compatible with WN goals. And as for short term cooperation with other altrigth factions, that may be possible, although you have to consider the possibility of ideological contamination of your people from those other factions, in the same vein, maybe providing some help to the feds to get rid of WN’s ideological enemies in the may be a useful idea if it helps WN goals in the long run and also gets rid of competing ideologies which might pose a threat to the WN cause.

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  69. @Nznz
    KippSince this is an open thread, what is going through anyone's head who thinks that China's GDP will not top out at 20000 per head at today's dollars, after which growth will slow to 2 percent or 3 percent per year, Taiwan's GDP per capita is at 25000 USD, can anyone here give a solid case as to why China's GDP per head will be anywhere near Taiwan's considering all of the poorer provinces in the interior that shows no signs of catching up? That is not considering that the possibility that China will enter a recession in the near future due to its debt of 800 percent of GDP according to some estimates or at least enter a japanese style prolonged growth slowdown to 2 percent per year as it deleverages it's debt pile. And the China bulls (or maybe BSers) here failed to answer as to how China will deal with its declining birth rate and ageing population.

    A China with 20,000 gdp per capita will be quite similar to the more developed areas of Eastern Europe. In the global scale of things, it’s a pretty nice living standard especially with few dysfunctional violent minorities. It would also mean that Chinese GDP in aggregate will be around 50% bigger than the US.

    As for the poorer provinces not catching up. This isn’t even true. This is akin to saying a Red scarf is Blue, ergo you are wrong. Figures for provincial level GDP data is available. Between 2011 and 2017, those provinces with nominal GDP per capita greater than the national average expanded 46.3% those with less than the average grew 54.9%. Developmental growth from rural to industrial always increases economic differentials between the more productive regions and less productive ones until a tipping point is reached where investment becomes more productive in the more underdeveloped areas.

    You other points were addressed in the previous thread if you bothered to actually read them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Nznz
    Provinces like Shanxi and Heilongjiang show little sings of convergence with places with Chekiang and Kwantung, and the problem with people here is that they look at IQ to the exclusion of everything else, and in terms of debt metrics and demographics China actually looks very bad, even if the debt is domestic. There will be a prolonged period of slow growth due to debt deleveraging, and all the IQ in the world will not help them, just as it did not help Japan in the 90s, a GDP per capita of 20000 is still very poor compared to the US, or to coutries like France, the UK or the Netherlands, I mean Korea's GDP is at the same level as Spain, and Spain is a poor country by Western European standards, and Taiwan's per capita GDP is at the same level as Estonia or the Czech Republic, even Japan has a GDP that is significantly lower than France, the Benelux countries, or the UK, or Scandinavia. And as for convergence you still see major per capita GSP differences among US states even if you control for race.
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  70. Nznz says: • Website
    @Duke of Qin
    A China with 20,000 gdp per capita will be quite similar to the more developed areas of Eastern Europe. In the global scale of things, it's a pretty nice living standard especially with few dysfunctional violent minorities. It would also mean that Chinese GDP in aggregate will be around 50% bigger than the US.

    As for the poorer provinces not catching up. This isn't even true. This is akin to saying a Red scarf is Blue, ergo you are wrong. Figures for provincial level GDP data is available. Between 2011 and 2017, those provinces with nominal GDP per capita greater than the national average expanded 46.3% those with less than the average grew 54.9%. Developmental growth from rural to industrial always increases economic differentials between the more productive regions and less productive ones until a tipping point is reached where investment becomes more productive in the more underdeveloped areas.

    You other points were addressed in the previous thread if you bothered to actually read them.

    Provinces like Shanxi and Heilongjiang show little sings of convergence with places with Chekiang and Kwantung, and the problem with people here is that they look at IQ to the exclusion of everything else, and in terms of debt metrics and demographics China actually looks very bad, even if the debt is domestic. There will be a prolonged period of slow growth due to debt deleveraging, and all the IQ in the world will not help them, just as it did not help Japan in the 90s, a GDP per capita of 20000 is still very poor compared to the US, or to coutries like France, the UK or the Netherlands, I mean Korea’s GDP is at the same level as Spain, and Spain is a poor country by Western European standards, and Taiwan’s per capita GDP is at the same level as Estonia or the Czech Republic, even Japan has a GDP that is significantly lower than France, the Benelux countries, or the UK, or Scandinavia. And as for convergence you still see major per capita GSP differences among US states even if you control for race.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    I underestimated your dishonesty.

    You claim

    "all of the poorer provinces in the interior that shows no signs of catching up"
     
    I respond by pointing out this simply isn't factually true. Poorer provinces are are growing faster, on average of 18.5% over the last 6 years.

    You respond by cherry picking literally the 2 worst underperforming provinces and comparing them with two of the faster growing high income regions. Why not use the Sichuan or Anhui, because it wouldn't point in the direction of your original lie? Also whats with the "Chekiang" and "Kwantung"? Are you copy pasting from some history book because I've never seen anyone mix romanizations like this. China is simply not at a level of development where a debt deleveraging will have any sustained impact because the Chinese aren't at their productivity frontier. Most likely result is a 1 possibly 2 year with modest GDP declines, followed by rapid growth again. I actually do think Chinese growth will slow rapidly once it approaches 40-50% of Western Europe, but you keep forgetting the simple fact that China has 1.4 billion people. A "poor" Spain of 50 million is a lot different from a poor Spain of 500 million. The former is a middling country in Europe, the latter would be a global power because of pure size.

    Also I'm going to let you in on an ancient asian secret. We aren't actually working that long. Wierd cultural hangup where raw effort is mistaken for work means that a lot of people stay in the office longer than they should. We aren't working though, just playing solitaire and minesweeper, online shopping, or otherwise looking busy for the boss until he leaves.
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  71. Nznz says: • Website

    Those per capita GDP figures look even worse if you factor in the fact that your average Korean, Japanese, or Chinese works something like 50 percent longer than your average Dutch, Swede, Belgian, Austrian, or French worker.

    Read More
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  72. Rosie says:

    The last straw. Anyone who doesn’t condemn Angling as a provocateur is one himself:

    https://dailystormer.name/saturday-copypasta-are-women-human/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Nznz
    Bros of all races over white hoes :p
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  73. Nznz says: • Website
    @Rosie
    The last straw. Anyone who doesn't condemn Angling as a provocateur is one himself:

    https://dailystormer.name/saturday-copypasta-are-women-human/

    Bros of all races over white hoes :p

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie
    At least you're honest. You can be manosphere bro or you can be a White nationalist, but not both. The former are subversives who should be run out of the movement.
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  74. Rosie says:
    @Nznz
    Bros of all races over white hoes :p

    At least you’re honest. You can be manosphere bro or you can be a White nationalist, but not both. The former are subversives who should be run out of the movement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I don't see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.
    , @DFH
    Why don't you try making an argument as to why, instead of throwing a tantrum?
    The Anglin article is clearly a joke.
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  75. Nznz says: • Website

    Speaking of Mr. Anglin, I distinctly remembered seeing pics of him with a bunch of underage Thai females.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Speaking of Mr. Anglin, I distinctly remembered seeing pics of him with a bunch of underage Thai females.
     
    I suspect that's the problem. (((Someone))) has dirt on Anglin.
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  76. Rosie says:
    @Nznz
    Speaking of Mr. Anglin, I distinctly remembered seeing pics of him with a bunch of underage Thai females.

    Speaking of Mr. Anglin, I distinctly remembered seeing pics of him with a bunch of underage Thai females.

    I suspect that’s the problem. (((Someone))) has dirt on Anglin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Spisarevski

    I suspect that’s the problem. (((Someone))) has dirt on Anglin.
     
    That's never been a secret though, I've seen a video recorded by him with an Asian chick in some mall in the Philippines, emphasis on "recorded by him".

    The last straw. Anyone who doesn’t condemn Angling as a provocateur is one himself:

    https://dailystormer.name/saturday-copypasta-are-women-human/

     

    The very essence of his work is being a provocateur. However, the provocations are usually done not just for fun, but with a political purpose, using humor to desensitize people to truths and help them move past mental blocks, etc.
    I agree that this article is not useful, to say the least. Maybe he's trolling his own readers who are not on board with the white sharia meme. Some of the lines make it kind of obvious:

    "Their main contribution to culture remains singing."
    "Their main contribution to society remains giving birth."
    "Are women human? And if so at what ratio? 3 percent human, 97 percent animal?"

    Don't take Anglin too seriously.

    I try not to judge people too hard in general. Lauren Southern is a mudshark and she's probably done more for the White race than the whole alt-right combined.
    There are plenty of flawed people in this broken age who still do some good work.

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  77. @Nznz
    Provinces like Shanxi and Heilongjiang show little sings of convergence with places with Chekiang and Kwantung, and the problem with people here is that they look at IQ to the exclusion of everything else, and in terms of debt metrics and demographics China actually looks very bad, even if the debt is domestic. There will be a prolonged period of slow growth due to debt deleveraging, and all the IQ in the world will not help them, just as it did not help Japan in the 90s, a GDP per capita of 20000 is still very poor compared to the US, or to coutries like France, the UK or the Netherlands, I mean Korea's GDP is at the same level as Spain, and Spain is a poor country by Western European standards, and Taiwan's per capita GDP is at the same level as Estonia or the Czech Republic, even Japan has a GDP that is significantly lower than France, the Benelux countries, or the UK, or Scandinavia. And as for convergence you still see major per capita GSP differences among US states even if you control for race.

    I underestimated your dishonesty.

    You claim

    “all of the poorer provinces in the interior that shows no signs of catching up”

    I respond by pointing out this simply isn’t factually true. Poorer provinces are are growing faster, on average of 18.5% over the last 6 years.

    You respond by cherry picking literally the 2 worst underperforming provinces and comparing them with two of the faster growing high income regions. Why not use the Sichuan or Anhui, because it wouldn’t point in the direction of your original lie? Also whats with the “Chekiang” and “Kwantung”? Are you copy pasting from some history book because I’ve never seen anyone mix romanizations like this. China is simply not at a level of development where a debt deleveraging will have any sustained impact because the Chinese aren’t at their productivity frontier. Most likely result is a 1 possibly 2 year with modest GDP declines, followed by rapid growth again. I actually do think Chinese growth will slow rapidly once it approaches 40-50% of Western Europe, but you keep forgetting the simple fact that China has 1.4 billion people. A “poor” Spain of 50 million is a lot different from a poor Spain of 500 million. The former is a middling country in Europe, the latter would be a global power because of pure size.

    Also I’m going to let you in on an ancient asian secret. We aren’t actually working that long. Wierd cultural hangup where raw effort is mistaken for work means that a lot of people stay in the office longer than they should. We aren’t working though, just playing solitaire and minesweeper, online shopping, or otherwise looking busy for the boss until he leaves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Nznz
    The problem is that at this per capita GDP level back in the early 90s, Korea was still growing at 10 percent a year, so China is actually doing a lot more badly at 6 percent than Korea is at this rate. And there is still the issue of East Asian underperformance relative to IQ test results.
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  78. Nznz says: • Website

    Ever heard of the postal romanization system, otherwise why would Hong Kong be called Hong Kong and not Xiangjang? As for GDP per capita China is not going to be at the same GDP per capita level as Taiwan in the foreseeable future, plus you have the problem of Rustbelt and coal dependent provinces, Taiwan’s per capita GDP is at 40 percent of US levels, so China’s GDP growth rates will decelerate at around the 20000 level to 3 percent per year. Why does Karlin keep on using Korea as a target anyway when something like Taiwan is a lot more realistic picture of what Kiangsu or Chekiang/Fukien’s potential is?

    Read More
    • Replies: @JJ
    While 70% of the US GDP is personal consumption, can you explain why China is the largest auto market(1.7X of the US), largest eCommerce market(2x of the US), largest smartphone market(2.7X of the US), largest industrial robot market(4x of the US), largest retail market, etc etc. yet Chinese Nominal GDP is only around 60% of the US GDP? If anything, the Chinese economy is deliberately under-reported to avoid the US paranoia. Remember the reaction of the US towards Made in China 2025?

    Therefore, it's not implausible that china will surpass Taiwan in the foreseeable future. China deliberately under-reports its GDP, whereas Taiwan's GDP even includes the output value of Taiwanese companies and people working outside Taiwan.
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  79. Nznz says: • Website
    @Duke of Qin
    I underestimated your dishonesty.

    You claim

    "all of the poorer provinces in the interior that shows no signs of catching up"
     
    I respond by pointing out this simply isn't factually true. Poorer provinces are are growing faster, on average of 18.5% over the last 6 years.

    You respond by cherry picking literally the 2 worst underperforming provinces and comparing them with two of the faster growing high income regions. Why not use the Sichuan or Anhui, because it wouldn't point in the direction of your original lie? Also whats with the "Chekiang" and "Kwantung"? Are you copy pasting from some history book because I've never seen anyone mix romanizations like this. China is simply not at a level of development where a debt deleveraging will have any sustained impact because the Chinese aren't at their productivity frontier. Most likely result is a 1 possibly 2 year with modest GDP declines, followed by rapid growth again. I actually do think Chinese growth will slow rapidly once it approaches 40-50% of Western Europe, but you keep forgetting the simple fact that China has 1.4 billion people. A "poor" Spain of 50 million is a lot different from a poor Spain of 500 million. The former is a middling country in Europe, the latter would be a global power because of pure size.

    Also I'm going to let you in on an ancient asian secret. We aren't actually working that long. Wierd cultural hangup where raw effort is mistaken for work means that a lot of people stay in the office longer than they should. We aren't working though, just playing solitaire and minesweeper, online shopping, or otherwise looking busy for the boss until he leaves.

    The problem is that at this per capita GDP level back in the early 90s, Korea was still growing at 10 percent a year, so China is actually doing a lot more badly at 6 percent than Korea is at this rate. And there is still the issue of East Asian underperformance relative to IQ test results.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Duke of Qin

    The problem is that at this per capita GDP level back in the early 90s, Korea was still growing at 10 percent a year
     
    Fortunately for us, the IMF maintains a user friendly database of historical growth rates. South Korea's gdp growth rates since 1993 when GDP per capita are similar to China's today is as follows.

    6.8
    9.2
    9.6
    7.6
    5.9
    -5.5
    11.3
    8.9
    4.5
    7.4
    2.9
    4.9
    3.9
    5.2
    5.5
    2.8
    0.7
    6.5
    3.7
    2.3
    2.9
    3.3
    2.8
    2.8
    3.1

    Average constant growth rate over the last 25 years has average out to be around 4.7%. Only time Korea hit 10% was the year of recovery after it shrank 5.5% the previous year. Narrowing it down to the next 10 immediate years after 1993, the Korean average growth rate is 6.5%, pretty close to last years Chinese of 6.9%. Korean data is a lot more volatile because the economy is smaller, more export dependent, and they aren't applying a smoothing function as the Communist Party economists seem to be doing.

    If you are going to bullshit, you really should pick an area where people cant instantly double check your claims.

    Anyway's Taiwan is an interesting point, but it's really not comparable to mainland China. Sad truth is, Taiwan was always somewhat of an economic backwater for China filled with southern Fujianese peasants and not insubstantial Austronesian aboriginal ancestry. There isn't really any Jiangnan ancestry in Taiwan aside from the mainlander refugees who have for the most part left either for America or back to the Mainland.
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  80. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie
    At least you're honest. You can be manosphere bro or you can be a White nationalist, but not both. The former are subversives who should be run out of the movement.

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.
     
    Both are incompatible with nationalism for exactly the same reason as anti-male varieties of feminism are incompatible with nationalism. Listen to manosphere guys and you will see very clearly that they don't care at all about Western Civilization or White interests. They are selfish little degenerates and traitors in waiting.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnXTk62UpWg
    , @Spisarevski

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.
     
    For one, there is no historical precedent for white nationalism or ethnic nationalism of any sort of white people being connected to attitudes towards women that are more typical of goatfuckers.
    However the social roles and expectations varied, women have always been granted a certain amount of respect and misogyny has never been a popular thing. Take any example you want, from the Roman Empire to Nazi Germany during their rise. Give me one positive example of a rising, growing White power from the past where there was misogyny, women treated like cattle, etc.
    How can you be a nationalist if you treat half your nation with disdain?
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  81. @Nznz
    The problem is that at this per capita GDP level back in the early 90s, Korea was still growing at 10 percent a year, so China is actually doing a lot more badly at 6 percent than Korea is at this rate. And there is still the issue of East Asian underperformance relative to IQ test results.

    The problem is that at this per capita GDP level back in the early 90s, Korea was still growing at 10 percent a year

    Fortunately for us, the IMF maintains a user friendly database of historical growth rates. South Korea’s gdp growth rates since 1993 when GDP per capita are similar to China’s today is as follows.

    6.8
    9.2
    9.6
    7.6
    5.9
    -5.5
    11.3
    8.9
    4.5
    7.4
    2.9
    4.9
    3.9
    5.2
    5.5
    2.8
    0.7
    6.5
    3.7
    2.3
    2.9
    3.3
    2.8
    2.8
    3.1

    Average constant growth rate over the last 25 years has average out to be around 4.7%. Only time Korea hit 10% was the year of recovery after it shrank 5.5% the previous year. Narrowing it down to the next 10 immediate years after 1993, the Korean average growth rate is 6.5%, pretty close to last years Chinese of 6.9%. Korean data is a lot more volatile because the economy is smaller, more export dependent, and they aren’t applying a smoothing function as the Communist Party economists seem to be doing.

    If you are going to bullshit, you really should pick an area where people cant instantly double check your claims.

    Anyway’s Taiwan is an interesting point, but it’s really not comparable to mainland China. Sad truth is, Taiwan was always somewhat of an economic backwater for China filled with southern Fujianese peasants and not insubstantial Austronesian aboriginal ancestry. There isn’t really any Jiangnan ancestry in Taiwan aside from the mainlander refugees who have for the most part left either for America or back to the Mainland.

    Read More
    • Replies: @JJ
    Chinese GDP has to be under-reported. Someone made an interesting and useful table comparing key economics data among China, US, Japan, and India.

    https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2488663-1-2.html
    , @Clyde
    Taiwan is an economic powerhouse that is full of tech geniuses who design most of your laptops (Windows and Apple) and smartphones and have done so for years. They then farm out production to slaves and coolies in China. 60% of the time when you hear of a Chinese hi tech company, when you look further the ownership and engineering is in Taiwan with factories on The Mainland.
    At least 50% of iPhone engineering is done in Taiwan. Apple would never do this in China because the Chinese will steal all the tech secrets within 6 months.

    Taiwan GDP per capita $50,000
    _____same as Germany
    Chinese GDP per capita $15,000_____same as Burundi and Dominican Republic
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  82. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    I don't see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.

    Both are incompatible with nationalism for exactly the same reason as anti-male varieties of feminism are incompatible with nationalism. Listen to manosphere guys and you will see very clearly that they don’t care at all about Western Civilization or White interests. They are selfish little degenerates and traitors in waiting.

    Read More
    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You haven't shown how they're incompatible.

    If everything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny is incompatible with nationalism, then virtually anything short of gender egalitarianism is incompatible with nationalism.

    Saying that anti-male feminism is equivalent to male chauvinism or misogyny presupposes that men and women are fundamentally the same, which is not true.
    , @Clyde
    How brilliant! You are going to flip the race traitor thing onto the guys. Well, at least we can never become coal burners.
    , @utu
    There are cases of pathology which are more likely to manifest itself within ideologies that objectify humans where humans are just biological machines that respond to external and internal forces like functions of their own design parameters. So no wonder that the manosphere will be associated with racialism, HBDism, IQism and also libertarianism which all are simplistic reductionist know-it-all ideologies which do not leave room for the unknown of the deeper mystery of what it means to be a human. There are no higher dimensions or transcendence. Young people, usually men, exposed to these ideologies will undergo some psychological devastation that will render them 'subhuman' just like the ideologies they subscribe to preach. Some grow out of it but some will remain trapped for life. All these ideologies are perfect for the PTB for which 'animals' are more manageable than humans. People subscribing to these ideologies are unable to formulate a compelling moral argument which suits the PTB very well. Abandoning morality and replacing it with simple legalism amounts to unilateral disarmament by population because ultimately it is who whom question. Look at the output of Steve Sailer. At best he can muster irony or sarcasm because in the homo homini lupus est world that he describes and live in there are no moral arguments.
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  83. JJ says:
    @Nznz
    Ever heard of the postal romanization system, otherwise why would Hong Kong be called Hong Kong and not Xiangjang? As for GDP per capita China is not going to be at the same GDP per capita level as Taiwan in the foreseeable future, plus you have the problem of Rustbelt and coal dependent provinces, Taiwan's per capita GDP is at 40 percent of US levels, so China's GDP growth rates will decelerate at around the 20000 level to 3 percent per year. Why does Karlin keep on using Korea as a target anyway when something like Taiwan is a lot more realistic picture of what Kiangsu or Chekiang/Fukien's potential is?

    While 70% of the US GDP is personal consumption, can you explain why China is the largest auto market(1.7X of the US), largest eCommerce market(2x of the US), largest smartphone market(2.7X of the US), largest industrial robot market(4x of the US), largest retail market, etc etc. yet Chinese Nominal GDP is only around 60% of the US GDP? If anything, the Chinese economy is deliberately under-reported to avoid the US paranoia. Remember the reaction of the US towards Made in China 2025?

    Therefore, it’s not implausible that china will surpass Taiwan in the foreseeable future. China deliberately under-reports its GDP, whereas Taiwan’s GDP even includes the output value of Taiwanese companies and people working outside Taiwan.

    Read More
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  84. JJ says:
    @Duke of Qin

    The problem is that at this per capita GDP level back in the early 90s, Korea was still growing at 10 percent a year
     
    Fortunately for us, the IMF maintains a user friendly database of historical growth rates. South Korea's gdp growth rates since 1993 when GDP per capita are similar to China's today is as follows.

    6.8
    9.2
    9.6
    7.6
    5.9
    -5.5
    11.3
    8.9
    4.5
    7.4
    2.9
    4.9
    3.9
    5.2
    5.5
    2.8
    0.7
    6.5
    3.7
    2.3
    2.9
    3.3
    2.8
    2.8
    3.1

    Average constant growth rate over the last 25 years has average out to be around 4.7%. Only time Korea hit 10% was the year of recovery after it shrank 5.5% the previous year. Narrowing it down to the next 10 immediate years after 1993, the Korean average growth rate is 6.5%, pretty close to last years Chinese of 6.9%. Korean data is a lot more volatile because the economy is smaller, more export dependent, and they aren't applying a smoothing function as the Communist Party economists seem to be doing.

    If you are going to bullshit, you really should pick an area where people cant instantly double check your claims.

    Anyway's Taiwan is an interesting point, but it's really not comparable to mainland China. Sad truth is, Taiwan was always somewhat of an economic backwater for China filled with southern Fujianese peasants and not insubstantial Austronesian aboriginal ancestry. There isn't really any Jiangnan ancestry in Taiwan aside from the mainlander refugees who have for the most part left either for America or back to the Mainland.

    Chinese GDP has to be under-reported. Someone made an interesting and useful table comparing key economics data among China, US, Japan, and India.

    https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2488663-1-2.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Chinese GDP has to be under-reported.
     
    It isn't. You're just misunderstanding what GDP means. GDP is simply the measure of how fast money flows. If me and you exchange IOU's for 1 million dollars, our collective GDP is 2 million dollars, even though we did nothing productive and only wasted time.

    See this list, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_information_technology_companies#List

    Foxconn is worth 15 times less than Amazon. Is there anybody in the world that truly thinks that Amazon produces 15 times more useful stuff than Foxconn?
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  85. Clyde says:
    @Dmitry
    Different use level of chili between Japan and China - I feel another sign of Japanese higher civilization over China.

    In Japan, there is generally enough attention to ingredients quality and freshness, that they do not need to hide the taste of food with chili. And food (unlike Northern Europe) nonetheless not mediocre.

    An extreme case of the opposite, in India, where they invent elaborate and extreme spices in order to cleverly allow themselves to enjoy eating decayed food.

    Different use level of chili between Japan and China – I feel another sign of Japanese higher civilization over China.

    I actually agree with you and I am not a fan of Japanese food. Heavy use of hot peppers is a sign of lowness and stupidity. It’s hilarious how silly spoiled American white women have made thousands of Japanese and Koreans into wealthy millionaires with their bs sushi restaurants. All because these women think sushi will not make you fat.
    You know that by now Koreans own more US sushi restaurants than do Nips. As far as NE Asian cuisine goes I like Chinese food and Korean kim-chi.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Sushi in Japan is amazing. Also in the cheaper restaurant there (I never visited an expensive restaurant sadly), it's still amazing. And it can be like a "common man's food" - it's not even expensive to eat a lot in some restaurants near tsukiji.

    Flavours (even in the cheaper restaurant) are subtle, and you can seasoning as you want. There's no motive beyond for variety, as you have fresh ingredients, which are intelligently prepared (i.e. prepared in the best possible way to appreciate their flavours).

    Obviously, some Japanese food has a lot of strong flavours, but at least chili is not one of them.

    Utu above seems to have stronger views on Chinese cuisine. I'm not knowledgeable of varieties of Chinese food. The best Chinese restaurants I visited were last year in California.

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  86. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.
     
    Both are incompatible with nationalism for exactly the same reason as anti-male varieties of feminism are incompatible with nationalism. Listen to manosphere guys and you will see very clearly that they don't care at all about Western Civilization or White interests. They are selfish little degenerates and traitors in waiting.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnXTk62UpWg

    You haven’t shown how they’re incompatible.

    If everything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny is incompatible with nationalism, then virtually anything short of gender egalitarianism is incompatible with nationalism.

    Saying that anti-male feminism is equivalent to male chauvinism or misogyny presupposes that men and women are fundamentally the same, which is not true.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    If everything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny is incompatible with nationalism, then virtually anything short of gender egalitarianism is incompatible with nationalism.
     
    You're leaving out complementarianism, and benevolent patriarchy for that matter, neither of which are "male chauvinist."

    Saying that anti-male feminism is equivalent to male chauvinism or misogyny presupposes that men and women are fundamentally the same, which is not true.
     
    Nonsense.

    They are alike in that they are both transparent "divide and conquer" (((schemes))).
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  87. Clyde says:
    @Rosie

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.
     
    Both are incompatible with nationalism for exactly the same reason as anti-male varieties of feminism are incompatible with nationalism. Listen to manosphere guys and you will see very clearly that they don't care at all about Western Civilization or White interests. They are selfish little degenerates and traitors in waiting.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnXTk62UpWg

    How brilliant! You are going to flip the race traitor thing onto the guys. Well, at least we can never become coal burners.

    Read More
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  88. Clyde says:
    @Duke of Qin

    The problem is that at this per capita GDP level back in the early 90s, Korea was still growing at 10 percent a year
     
    Fortunately for us, the IMF maintains a user friendly database of historical growth rates. South Korea's gdp growth rates since 1993 when GDP per capita are similar to China's today is as follows.

    6.8
    9.2
    9.6
    7.6
    5.9
    -5.5
    11.3
    8.9
    4.5
    7.4
    2.9
    4.9
    3.9
    5.2
    5.5
    2.8
    0.7
    6.5
    3.7
    2.3
    2.9
    3.3
    2.8
    2.8
    3.1

    Average constant growth rate over the last 25 years has average out to be around 4.7%. Only time Korea hit 10% was the year of recovery after it shrank 5.5% the previous year. Narrowing it down to the next 10 immediate years after 1993, the Korean average growth rate is 6.5%, pretty close to last years Chinese of 6.9%. Korean data is a lot more volatile because the economy is smaller, more export dependent, and they aren't applying a smoothing function as the Communist Party economists seem to be doing.

    If you are going to bullshit, you really should pick an area where people cant instantly double check your claims.

    Anyway's Taiwan is an interesting point, but it's really not comparable to mainland China. Sad truth is, Taiwan was always somewhat of an economic backwater for China filled with southern Fujianese peasants and not insubstantial Austronesian aboriginal ancestry. There isn't really any Jiangnan ancestry in Taiwan aside from the mainlander refugees who have for the most part left either for America or back to the Mainland.

    Taiwan is an economic powerhouse that is full of tech geniuses who design most of your laptops (Windows and Apple) and smartphones and have done so for years. They then farm out production to slaves and coolies in China. 60% of the time when you hear of a Chinese hi tech company, when you look further the ownership and engineering is in Taiwan with factories on The Mainland.
    At least 50% of iPhone engineering is done in Taiwan. Apple would never do this in China because the Chinese will steal all the tech secrets within 6 months.

    Taiwan GDP per capita $50,000
    _____same as Germany
    Chinese GDP per capita $15,000_____same as Burundi and Dominican Republic

    Read More
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  89. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    Nationalism is simply a modern species of patriarchy, hence it is fundamentally “male chauvinist”, “sexist”, “misogynistic”, etc. Patriarchy is about related males acquiring and controlling territory thus breeding rights over the territory. Male breeding is contingent upon control and domination of territory, whereas female breeding is contingent upon other factors such as youth, fertility, beauty, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Nationalism is simply a modern species of patriarchy, hence it is fundamentally “male chauvinist”, “sexist”, “misogynistic”, etc. Patriarchy is about related males acquiring and controlling territory thus breeding rights over the territory. Male breeding is contingent upon control and domination of territory, whereas female breeding is contingent upon other factors such as youth, fertility, beauty, etc.
     
    Thanks for proving my point. You are a repressed thug with fantasies of raping strange women en masse. You are not a patriot in the rooted, blood-and-soil sense.
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  90. @Rosie

    Speaking of Mr. Anglin, I distinctly remembered seeing pics of him with a bunch of underage Thai females.
     
    I suspect that's the problem. (((Someone))) has dirt on Anglin.

    I suspect that’s the problem. (((Someone))) has dirt on Anglin.

    That’s never been a secret though, I’ve seen a video recorded by him with an Asian chick in some mall in the Philippines, emphasis on “recorded by him”.

    The last straw. Anyone who doesn’t condemn Angling as a provocateur is one himself:

    https://dailystormer.name/saturday-copypasta-are-women-human/

    The very essence of his work is being a provocateur. However, the provocations are usually done not just for fun, but with a political purpose, using humor to desensitize people to truths and help them move past mental blocks, etc.
    I agree that this article is not useful, to say the least. Maybe he’s trolling his own readers who are not on board with the white sharia meme. Some of the lines make it kind of obvious:

    “Their main contribution to culture remains singing.”
    “Their main contribution to society remains giving birth.”
    “Are women human? And if so at what ratio? 3 percent human, 97 percent animal?”

    Don’t take Anglin too seriously.

    I try not to judge people too hard in general. Lauren Southern is a mudshark and she’s probably done more for the White race than the whole alt-right combined.
    There are plenty of flawed people in this broken age who still do some good work.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    I try not to judge people too hard in general. Lauren Southern is a mudshark and she’s probably done more for the White race than the whole alt-right combined.
    There are plenty of flawed people in this broken age who still do some good work.
     
    At least you're consistent. I respect that.
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  91. @Anonymous
    I don't see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.

    For one, there is no historical precedent for white nationalism or ethnic nationalism of any sort of white people being connected to attitudes towards women that are more typical of goatfuckers.
    However the social roles and expectations varied, women have always been granted a certain amount of respect and misogyny has never been a popular thing. Take any example you want, from the Roman Empire to Nazi Germany during their rise. Give me one positive example of a rising, growing White power from the past where there was misogyny, women treated like cattle, etc.
    How can you be a nationalist if you treat half your nation with disdain?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You're using vague terms like "more typical of goatfuckers", "misogyny", "women treated like cattle", etc. that vary significantly according to subjective interpretation.

    The sexual segregation of ancient Athens seems to have been more akin to contemporary Muslim than Western practice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Classical_Athens#Seclusion

    In classical Athens, women ideally remained apart from men.[52] This ideology of separation was so strong that a party to a lawsuit (Lysias' Against Simon) could claim that his sister and nieces were ashamed to be in the presence of their male relatives as evidence that they were respectable....

    The ideal that respectable women should remain out of the public eye was so entrenched in classical Athens that simply naming a citizen woman could be a source of shame....

    The ideology of female seclusion may have extended inside the house. Literary evidence seems to suggest that there were separate men's and women's quarters in Athenian houses.[91] In On the Murder of Eratosthenes, Euphiletos says that the women's quarters are above the men's,[92] while in Xenophon's Oeconomicus they are on the same level as the men's quarters but "separated by a bolted door".[93] However, the archaeological evidence suggests that this boundary was not as rigidly defined as the literary evidence suggests. Lisa Nevett, for instance, has argued that Athenian women were in reality only restricted to the "women's quarters" when unrelated men visited.[91]
     
    , @Anonymous
    http://www.stoa.org/diotima/anthology/wlgr/wlgr-romanlegal109.shtml

    Husbands' punishment of wives in early Rome (Valerius Maximus, Memorable Deeds and Sayings 6.3.9-12, 1st cent. A.D. L)

    Egnatius Metellus [8] ... took a cudgel and beat his wife to death because she had drunk some wine. Not only did no one charge him with a crime, but no one even blamed him. Everyone considered this an excellent example of one who had justly paid the penalty for violating the laws of sobriety. Indeed, any woman who immoderately seeks the use of wine closes the door on all virtues and opens it to vices.

    There was also the harsh marital severity of Gaius Sulpicius Gallus. [9] He divorced his wife because he had caught her outdoors with her head uncovered: a stiff penalty, but not without a certain logic. 'The law,' he said, 'prescribes for you my eyes alone to which you may prove your beauty. For these eyes you should provide the ornaments of beauty, for these be lovely: entrust yourself to their more certain knowledge. If you, with needless provocation, invite the look of anyone else, you must be suspected of wrongdoing.'

    Quintus Antistius Vetus felt no differently when he divorced his wife because he had seen her in public having a private conversation with a common freedwoman. For, moved not by an actual crime but, so to speak, by the birth and nourishment of one, he punished her before the crime could be committed, so that he might prevent the deed's being done at all, rather than punish it afterwards.

    To these we should add the case of Publius Sempronius Sophus [10] who disgraced his wife with divorce merely because she dared attend the games without his knowledge. And so, long ago, when the misdeeds of women were thus forestalled, their minds stayed far from wrongdoing.
     
    http://www.stoa.org/diotima/anthology/wlgr/wlgr-romanlegal111.shtml

    Punishment for adultery. Rome, 2nd cent. B.C. (Aulus Gellius, Attic Nights 10.23, 2nd cent. A.D. L)

    An excerpt from a speech of Marcus Cato [11] on the life and customs of women of long ago and on the right of the husband to kill a wife caught committing adultery.

    (1) Those who have written about the life and culture of the Roman people say that women in Rome and Latium 'lived an abstemious life', which is to say that they abstained altogether from wine, called temetum in the early language and that it was the custom for them to kiss their relatives so they could tell by the smell whether they had been drinking. [12] Women, however, are said to have drunk the wine of the second press, raisin wine, myrrh-flavoured wine and that sort of sweet drink. This things are found in these books, as I said, but Marcus Cato reports that women were not only judged but also punished by a judge as severely for drinking wine as for committing adultery.

    I have copied Cato's words from a speech called On the Dowry, in which it is stated that husbands who caught their wives in adultery could kill them: 'The husband', he says, 'who divorces his wife is her judge, as though he were a censor; [13] he has power if she has done something perverse and awful; if she has drunk wine she is punished; if she has done wrong with another man, she is condemned to death.' It is also written, regarding the right to kill: 'If you catch your wife in adultery, you can kill her with impunity; she, however, cannot dare to lay a finger on you if you commit adultery, nor is it the law.'
     
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  92. DFH says:
    @Rosie
    At least you're honest. You can be manosphere bro or you can be a White nationalist, but not both. The former are subversives who should be run out of the movement.

    Why don’t you try making an argument as to why, instead of throwing a tantrum?
    The Anglin article is clearly a joke.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Why don’t you try making an argument as to why, instead of throwing a tantrum?

     

    Like Stephan Molyneux once said, the time for arguments is over.

    The Anglin article is clearly a joke.
     
    Ha ha ha so funny. Men should be able to put their wives down like dogs.

    It's not funny anymore.
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  93. Dmitry says:
    @utu
    Japanese cuisine plays on much narrower range than the Chinese cuisine. Japan does use chilies very sparingly if at all. But there are regions in China where chilis are also not used. Some Chinese dishes are delicate and subtle that could belong to Japanese cuisine. Eg. shark fin soup, winter melon soup, snow pea tip salad and many dim sums like think skin dumplings with broth inside or har gow with delicate shrimp or eggplant. Chinese cuisine is huge land vast ike China itself consisting of many different symphonic orchestras while Japan is more like several string quartets and one chamber music orchestra peopled with virtuosos who will master subtle Chopin Mazurkas rather than loud and hard Rachmaninoff.

    It is interesting that chilis have been around just 300-400 years outside of Mexico and Central America. Even in Szechuan they did not have chilis though nobody in Szechuan would believe it. Hot capsaicin food is not original for Thai, Indian or Vietnamese food. Nobody associated paprika with Hungary 200 years ago. Perhaps one day Norwegian or Czech cuisine will be spicy and hot.

    As far as middle class Europeans in affluent Central and Northern Europe they might be the most sophisticated home cooks who try all kinds of new trends and have access to the most exotic and expensive ingredients. There is yuppie and hipster hype and pretentiousness that goes with it but still they are expanding the range and inflate expectations for good. It was yuppies who restored the culture of good coffee, good chocolate, good beer and good bread in America starting in 1980s that has been lost during the period of unbound optimism into the industrialization and modernity promoted by American corporations. The whole animal, nose-to-tail movement in America is another positive sign of the reconquista of the past that was lost in the 2nd half of the 20 century.

    Yes things are already different in the last 20 years. All over Northern Europe, the bourgeoisie is rapidly including and producing many connoisseurs, and driving many improvements in cuisine.

    And accelerated now the changes a lot, the internet. The existence of online reviews is raising restaurant standards. And YouTube is spreading every nation’s secret recipes, so a fellow in Sweden can cook pasta the same way as a Sicilian.

    But if we remember back to 20 years ago, before the internet and before the present level of connoisseurship – how much worse it was.

    -

    I had strong example in childhood.

    I remember my grandparents collected large amounts (baskets) of chanterelles (lisichki).

    Afterwards lazily put them in a pan, covered with cream (also with cheese?), where they soaked some unpleasant flavours. The result was eating unpleasant tasting cream with soggy but difficult to bite mushrooms.

    Later, visiting London, and walking through Harrods food court, we were shocked seeing the price of these same ones in London (where they are something like $150 for a basket of them). I was thinking “these don’t even taste good”.

    Obviously French or Italian style chefs, were turning this mushroom into masterpieces of cuisine, that people pay a lot for. Yet grandparents are turning this into soggy food, that you don’t even like. The end result of whatever Italians are doing with this, and what your grandparents do, is something vast.

    However, nowadays with the internet – these gaps can be very easily closed. I’m sure Italians will still have a little more skill, but the knowledge gap can be closed with only 1 minute on the search engine.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    I suspect that chanterelles you had in childhood were not as bad as you remember. They are often made with cream or eggs as they need something smooth because their texture can be hard and rubbery. But their flavor is unique which some people do not like also because sometimes they have tangy/bitter aftertaste. In countries like Russia which kept old tradition of picking wild mushrooms they are not a big deal. In season you could have a lot of them. Peasants would eat them w/o a thought they were eating something special. But in countries were mushroom picking tradition was lost they are considered rare and a delicacy and so they are used sparingly as an addition only not a full meal of a big bowl of mushrooms. And they are pricy. Last time I saw them in a store in the US they were $35 per pound. So you use very small amounts of them and this makes a lot of difference.

    In 19c NYC fresh oysters were very cheap and constituted the main staple of dock workers and laborers. But now they are expensive and special so you order a dozen or so. But if you had to eat them by kilo you soon would be fed up and disgusted with them. This is a good example of Engels quantity has its own quality.
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  94. Dmitry says:
    @Clyde
    Different use level of chili between Japan and China – I feel another sign of Japanese higher civilization over China.

    I actually agree with you and I am not a fan of Japanese food. Heavy use of hot peppers is a sign of lowness and stupidity. It's hilarious how silly spoiled American white women have made thousands of Japanese and Koreans into wealthy millionaires with their bs sushi restaurants. All because these women think sushi will not make you fat.
    You know that by now Koreans own more US sushi restaurants than do Nips. As far as NE Asian cuisine goes I like Chinese food and Korean kim-chi.

    Sushi in Japan is amazing. Also in the cheaper restaurant there (I never visited an expensive restaurant sadly), it’s still amazing. And it can be like a “common man’s food” – it’s not even expensive to eat a lot in some restaurants near tsukiji.

    Flavours (even in the cheaper restaurant) are subtle, and you can seasoning as you want. There’s no motive beyond for variety, as you have fresh ingredients, which are intelligently prepared (i.e. prepared in the best possible way to appreciate their flavours).

    Obviously, some Japanese food has a lot of strong flavours, but at least chili is not one of them.

    Utu above seems to have stronger views on Chinese cuisine. I’m not knowledgeable of varieties of Chinese food. The best Chinese restaurants I visited were last year in California.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    China has a gigantic variety of food, much of it very good; however insofar as survivorship basis goes, especially in the West, the spiciest variety seems to have gotten the very popular worldwide. In that sense, China is also a microcosm of the world since IIRC even within Beijing, I was seeing a lot of Sichuanese "spicy" restaurants though the traditional food stands were still going strong.

    By being basically kind of addictive, chilis will probably continue to gain a compelling market space; mapo tofu is very, very popular in Japan as well.
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  95. @Dmitry
    Sushi in Japan is amazing. Also in the cheaper restaurant there (I never visited an expensive restaurant sadly), it's still amazing. And it can be like a "common man's food" - it's not even expensive to eat a lot in some restaurants near tsukiji.

    Flavours (even in the cheaper restaurant) are subtle, and you can seasoning as you want. There's no motive beyond for variety, as you have fresh ingredients, which are intelligently prepared (i.e. prepared in the best possible way to appreciate their flavours).

    Obviously, some Japanese food has a lot of strong flavours, but at least chili is not one of them.

    Utu above seems to have stronger views on Chinese cuisine. I'm not knowledgeable of varieties of Chinese food. The best Chinese restaurants I visited were last year in California.

    China has a gigantic variety of food, much of it very good; however insofar as survivorship basis goes, especially in the West, the spiciest variety seems to have gotten the very popular worldwide. In that sense, China is also a microcosm of the world since IIRC even within Beijing, I was seeing a lot of Sichuanese “spicy” restaurants though the traditional food stands were still going strong.

    By being basically kind of addictive, chilis will probably continue to gain a compelling market space; mapo tofu is very, very popular in Japan as well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    I actually prefer the milder Chinese dishes. I went to a Sichuan-style restaurant once and, while a size of n=1 is not much, I was somewhat disappointed. Most of the dishes seemed like they depended on spice alone for taste, which made them very bland.
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  96. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Spisarevski

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.
     
    For one, there is no historical precedent for white nationalism or ethnic nationalism of any sort of white people being connected to attitudes towards women that are more typical of goatfuckers.
    However the social roles and expectations varied, women have always been granted a certain amount of respect and misogyny has never been a popular thing. Take any example you want, from the Roman Empire to Nazi Germany during their rise. Give me one positive example of a rising, growing White power from the past where there was misogyny, women treated like cattle, etc.
    How can you be a nationalist if you treat half your nation with disdain?

    You’re using vague terms like “more typical of goatfuckers”, “misogyny”, “women treated like cattle”, etc. that vary significantly according to subjective interpretation.

    The sexual segregation of ancient Athens seems to have been more akin to contemporary Muslim than Western practice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Classical_Athens#Seclusion

    In classical Athens, women ideally remained apart from men.[52] This ideology of separation was so strong that a party to a lawsuit (Lysias’ Against Simon) could claim that his sister and nieces were ashamed to be in the presence of their male relatives as evidence that they were respectable….

    The ideal that respectable women should remain out of the public eye was so entrenched in classical Athens that simply naming a citizen woman could be a source of shame….

    The ideology of female seclusion may have extended inside the house. Literary evidence seems to suggest that there were separate men’s and women’s quarters in Athenian houses.[91] In On the Murder of Eratosthenes, Euphiletos says that the women’s quarters are above the men’s,[92] while in Xenophon’s Oeconomicus they are on the same level as the men’s quarters but “separated by a bolted door”.[93] However, the archaeological evidence suggests that this boundary was not as rigidly defined as the literary evidence suggests. Lisa Nevett, for instance, has argued that Athenian women were in reality only restricted to the “women’s quarters” when unrelated men visited.[91]

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH

    Yea, men should have begotten children from some other source, no female race existing; thus would no evil ever have fallen on mankind.
     
    Euripides was the original MGTOW
    , @Rosie

    The sexual segregation of ancient Athens seems to have been more akin to contemporary Muslim than Western practice.
     
    Which is why they couldn't keep their hands off little boys.
    , @notanon
    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(book)

    it worked very well - better than anywhere else imo

    and yes it means women are more of a pain than they would be otherwise but i think that's probably adaptive on balance unless the men allow poisonous cultural Marxists to take over their media in which case it's bad - so the solution is to drive CM's out of the media not change the tradition that worked well for the previous few thousand years.

    on the other hand i can understand why a lot of young men are so bitter about college feminists so i cut manosphere type alt-rightists some slack for that reason - i think most will come round eventually cos genetics - whatever they say in public most of them are genetically programmed to being white knights cos it was necessary in the cold north.
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  97. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Spisarevski

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.
     
    For one, there is no historical precedent for white nationalism or ethnic nationalism of any sort of white people being connected to attitudes towards women that are more typical of goatfuckers.
    However the social roles and expectations varied, women have always been granted a certain amount of respect and misogyny has never been a popular thing. Take any example you want, from the Roman Empire to Nazi Germany during their rise. Give me one positive example of a rising, growing White power from the past where there was misogyny, women treated like cattle, etc.
    How can you be a nationalist if you treat half your nation with disdain?

    http://www.stoa.org/diotima/anthology/wlgr/wlgr-romanlegal109.shtml

    Husbands’ punishment of wives in early Rome (Valerius Maximus, Memorable Deeds and Sayings 6.3.9-12, 1st cent. A.D. L)

    Egnatius Metellus [8] … took a cudgel and beat his wife to death because she had drunk some wine. Not only did no one charge him with a crime, but no one even blamed him. Everyone considered this an excellent example of one who had justly paid the penalty for violating the laws of sobriety. Indeed, any woman who immoderately seeks the use of wine closes the door on all virtues and opens it to vices.

    There was also the harsh marital severity of Gaius Sulpicius Gallus. [9] He divorced his wife because he had caught her outdoors with her head uncovered: a stiff penalty, but not without a certain logic. ‘The law,’ he said, ‘prescribes for you my eyes alone to which you may prove your beauty. For these eyes you should provide the ornaments of beauty, for these be lovely: entrust yourself to their more certain knowledge. If you, with needless provocation, invite the look of anyone else, you must be suspected of wrongdoing.’

    Quintus Antistius Vetus felt no differently when he divorced his wife because he had seen her in public having a private conversation with a common freedwoman. For, moved not by an actual crime but, so to speak, by the birth and nourishment of one, he punished her before the crime could be committed, so that he might prevent the deed’s being done at all, rather than punish it afterwards.

    To these we should add the case of Publius Sempronius Sophus [10] who disgraced his wife with divorce merely because she dared attend the games without his knowledge. And so, long ago, when the misdeeds of women were thus forestalled, their minds stayed far from wrongdoing.

    http://www.stoa.org/diotima/anthology/wlgr/wlgr-romanlegal111.shtml

    Punishment for adultery. Rome, 2nd cent. B.C. (Aulus Gellius, Attic Nights 10.23, 2nd cent. A.D. L)

    An excerpt from a speech of Marcus Cato [11] on the life and customs of women of long ago and on the right of the husband to kill a wife caught committing adultery.

    (1) Those who have written about the life and culture of the Roman people say that women in Rome and Latium ‘lived an abstemious life’, which is to say that they abstained altogether from wine, called temetum in the early language and that it was the custom for them to kiss their relatives so they could tell by the smell whether they had been drinking. [12] Women, however, are said to have drunk the wine of the second press, raisin wine, myrrh-flavoured wine and that sort of sweet drink. This things are found in these books, as I said, but Marcus Cato reports that women were not only judged but also punished by a judge as severely for drinking wine as for committing adultery.

    I have copied Cato’s words from a speech called On the Dowry, in which it is stated that husbands who caught their wives in adultery could kill them: ‘The husband’, he says, ‘who divorces his wife is her judge, as though he were a censor; [13] he has power if she has done something perverse and awful; if she has drunk wine she is punished; if she has done wrong with another man, she is condemned to death.’ It is also written, regarding the right to kill: ‘If you catch your wife in adultery, you can kill her with impunity; she, however, cannot dare to lay a finger on you if you commit adultery, nor is it the law.’

    Read More
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  98. DFH says:
    @Anonymous
    You're using vague terms like "more typical of goatfuckers", "misogyny", "women treated like cattle", etc. that vary significantly according to subjective interpretation.

    The sexual segregation of ancient Athens seems to have been more akin to contemporary Muslim than Western practice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Classical_Athens#Seclusion

    In classical Athens, women ideally remained apart from men.[52] This ideology of separation was so strong that a party to a lawsuit (Lysias' Against Simon) could claim that his sister and nieces were ashamed to be in the presence of their male relatives as evidence that they were respectable....

    The ideal that respectable women should remain out of the public eye was so entrenched in classical Athens that simply naming a citizen woman could be a source of shame....

    The ideology of female seclusion may have extended inside the house. Literary evidence seems to suggest that there were separate men's and women's quarters in Athenian houses.[91] In On the Murder of Eratosthenes, Euphiletos says that the women's quarters are above the men's,[92] while in Xenophon's Oeconomicus they are on the same level as the men's quarters but "separated by a bolted door".[93] However, the archaeological evidence suggests that this boundary was not as rigidly defined as the literary evidence suggests. Lisa Nevett, for instance, has argued that Athenian women were in reality only restricted to the "women's quarters" when unrelated men visited.[91]
     

    Yea, men should have begotten children from some other source, no female race existing; thus would no evil ever have fallen on mankind.

    Euripides was the original MGTOW

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  99. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    You haven't shown how they're incompatible.

    If everything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny is incompatible with nationalism, then virtually anything short of gender egalitarianism is incompatible with nationalism.

    Saying that anti-male feminism is equivalent to male chauvinism or misogyny presupposes that men and women are fundamentally the same, which is not true.

    If everything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny is incompatible with nationalism, then virtually anything short of gender egalitarianism is incompatible with nationalism.

    You’re leaving out complementarianism, and benevolent patriarchy for that matter, neither of which are “male chauvinist.”

    Saying that anti-male feminism is equivalent to male chauvinism or misogyny presupposes that men and women are fundamentally the same, which is not true.

    Nonsense.

    They are alike in that they are both transparent “divide and conquer” (((schemes))).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I don't know what you mean by "complementarianism" in this context. "Complementary" could include patriarchal societies with sexual divisions and divisions of labor between men and women.

    I think any form of patriarchy, including benevolent forms, would be described as male chauvinist, especially these days.
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  100. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    You're using vague terms like "more typical of goatfuckers", "misogyny", "women treated like cattle", etc. that vary significantly according to subjective interpretation.

    The sexual segregation of ancient Athens seems to have been more akin to contemporary Muslim than Western practice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Classical_Athens#Seclusion

    In classical Athens, women ideally remained apart from men.[52] This ideology of separation was so strong that a party to a lawsuit (Lysias' Against Simon) could claim that his sister and nieces were ashamed to be in the presence of their male relatives as evidence that they were respectable....

    The ideal that respectable women should remain out of the public eye was so entrenched in classical Athens that simply naming a citizen woman could be a source of shame....

    The ideology of female seclusion may have extended inside the house. Literary evidence seems to suggest that there were separate men's and women's quarters in Athenian houses.[91] In On the Murder of Eratosthenes, Euphiletos says that the women's quarters are above the men's,[92] while in Xenophon's Oeconomicus they are on the same level as the men's quarters but "separated by a bolted door".[93] However, the archaeological evidence suggests that this boundary was not as rigidly defined as the literary evidence suggests. Lisa Nevett, for instance, has argued that Athenian women were in reality only restricted to the "women's quarters" when unrelated men visited.[91]
     

    The sexual segregation of ancient Athens seems to have been more akin to contemporary Muslim than Western practice.

    Which is why they couldn’t keep their hands off little boys.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    They had female prostitutes in ancient Athens, including state brothels with regulated prices. Moreover, there were many female slaves that men would use. So that wouldn't explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.
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  101. Rosie says:
    @DFH
    Why don't you try making an argument as to why, instead of throwing a tantrum?
    The Anglin article is clearly a joke.

    Why don’t you try making an argument as to why, instead of throwing a tantrum?

    Like Stephan Molyneux once said, the time for arguments is over.

    The Anglin article is clearly a joke.

    Ha ha ha so funny. Men should be able to put their wives down like dogs.

    It’s not funny anymore.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH

    Like Stephan Molyneux once said, the time for arguments is over.
     
    ...the time for female feelings is now!
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  102. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    Nationalism is simply a modern species of patriarchy, hence it is fundamentally "male chauvinist", "sexist", "misogynistic", etc. Patriarchy is about related males acquiring and controlling territory thus breeding rights over the territory. Male breeding is contingent upon control and domination of territory, whereas female breeding is contingent upon other factors such as youth, fertility, beauty, etc.

    Nationalism is simply a modern species of patriarchy, hence it is fundamentally “male chauvinist”, “sexist”, “misogynistic”, etc. Patriarchy is about related males acquiring and controlling territory thus breeding rights over the territory. Male breeding is contingent upon control and domination of territory, whereas female breeding is contingent upon other factors such as youth, fertility, beauty, etc.

    Thanks for proving my point. You are a repressed thug with fantasies of raping strange women en masse. You are not a patriot in the rooted, blood-and-soil sense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie
    Soviet rapist thugs were the real nationalists.

    http://theconversation.com/as-we-remember-ve-day-remember-too-the-german-women-who-were-raped-96196
    , @Anonymous
    I said nothing about "raping strange women en masse". That is a strange interpretation of my comment and speaks more to your repressed, or perhaps not so repressed, fantasies.

    "Blood and soil" refers to a particular group tied to a particular territory. How does that happen? By men who spill their blood on that soil in order to acquire, control, dominate, and defend it.
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  103. Rosie says:
    @Spisarevski

    I suspect that’s the problem. (((Someone))) has dirt on Anglin.
     
    That's never been a secret though, I've seen a video recorded by him with an Asian chick in some mall in the Philippines, emphasis on "recorded by him".

    The last straw. Anyone who doesn’t condemn Angling as a provocateur is one himself:

    https://dailystormer.name/saturday-copypasta-are-women-human/

     

    The very essence of his work is being a provocateur. However, the provocations are usually done not just for fun, but with a political purpose, using humor to desensitize people to truths and help them move past mental blocks, etc.
    I agree that this article is not useful, to say the least. Maybe he's trolling his own readers who are not on board with the white sharia meme. Some of the lines make it kind of obvious:

    "Their main contribution to culture remains singing."
    "Their main contribution to society remains giving birth."
    "Are women human? And if so at what ratio? 3 percent human, 97 percent animal?"

    Don't take Anglin too seriously.

    I try not to judge people too hard in general. Lauren Southern is a mudshark and she's probably done more for the White race than the whole alt-right combined.
    There are plenty of flawed people in this broken age who still do some good work.

    I try not to judge people too hard in general. Lauren Southern is a mudshark and she’s probably done more for the White race than the whole alt-right combined.
    There are plenty of flawed people in this broken age who still do some good work.

    At least you’re consistent. I respect that.

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  104. Rosie says:
    @Rosie

    Nationalism is simply a modern species of patriarchy, hence it is fundamentally “male chauvinist”, “sexist”, “misogynistic”, etc. Patriarchy is about related males acquiring and controlling territory thus breeding rights over the territory. Male breeding is contingent upon control and domination of territory, whereas female breeding is contingent upon other factors such as youth, fertility, beauty, etc.
     
    Thanks for proving my point. You are a repressed thug with fantasies of raping strange women en masse. You are not a patriot in the rooted, blood-and-soil sense.
    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "D-Day GIs 'raped and killed their French allies while US army generals turned a blind eye'"

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/422860/D-Day-GIs-raped-and-killed-their-French-allies-while-US-army-generals-turned-a-blind-eye

    The all-conquering GI was soon viewed with suspicion in France after US forces were accused of thousands of rapes, intimidation and having sex in daylight in parks, cemeteries and among the rubble of destroyed houses.

    Controversial new research has revealed that the Normandy invasion of the Second World War was a supercharged erotic adventure for some who, after fighting their way off the murderous beaches, expected to find free love from a grateful public.
     
    http://time.com/5303229/women-after-d-day/

    They called it the épuration sauvage, the wild purge, because it was spontaneous and unofficial. But, yes, it was savage, too. In the weeks and months following the D-Day landings of June 6, 1944, Allied troops and the resistance swept across France liberating towns and villages, and unleashing a flood of collective euphoria, relief and hope. And then the punishments began.

    The victims were among the most vulnerable members of the community: Women. Accused of “horizontal collaboration” — sleeping with the enemy — they were targeted by vigilantes and publicly humiliated. Their heads were shaved, they were stripped half-naked, smeared with tar, paraded through towns and taunted, stoned, kicked, beaten, spat upon and sometimes even killed.
     
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  105. @Daniel Chieh
    China has a gigantic variety of food, much of it very good; however insofar as survivorship basis goes, especially in the West, the spiciest variety seems to have gotten the very popular worldwide. In that sense, China is also a microcosm of the world since IIRC even within Beijing, I was seeing a lot of Sichuanese "spicy" restaurants though the traditional food stands were still going strong.

    By being basically kind of addictive, chilis will probably continue to gain a compelling market space; mapo tofu is very, very popular in Japan as well.

    I actually prefer the milder Chinese dishes. I went to a Sichuan-style restaurant once and, while a size of n=1 is not much, I was somewhat disappointed. Most of the dishes seemed like they depended on spice alone for taste, which made them very bland.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Pepper has similar properties as capsaicin - why do you think it never reached that form of popularity?

    Bacon, I think, is another meme food that has reached worldwide popularity.
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  106. notanon says:
    @Anonymous
    You're using vague terms like "more typical of goatfuckers", "misogyny", "women treated like cattle", etc. that vary significantly according to subjective interpretation.

    The sexual segregation of ancient Athens seems to have been more akin to contemporary Muslim than Western practice.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Classical_Athens#Seclusion

    In classical Athens, women ideally remained apart from men.[52] This ideology of separation was so strong that a party to a lawsuit (Lysias' Against Simon) could claim that his sister and nieces were ashamed to be in the presence of their male relatives as evidence that they were respectable....

    The ideal that respectable women should remain out of the public eye was so entrenched in classical Athens that simply naming a citizen woman could be a source of shame....

    The ideology of female seclusion may have extended inside the house. Literary evidence seems to suggest that there were separate men's and women's quarters in Athenian houses.[91] In On the Murder of Eratosthenes, Euphiletos says that the women's quarters are above the men's,[92] while in Xenophon's Oeconomicus they are on the same level as the men's quarters but "separated by a bolted door".[93] However, the archaeological evidence suggests that this boundary was not as rigidly defined as the literary evidence suggests. Lisa Nevett, for instance, has argued that Athenian women were in reality only restricted to the "women's quarters" when unrelated men visited.[91]
     

    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(book)

    it worked very well – better than anywhere else imo

    and yes it means women are more of a pain than they would be otherwise but i think that’s probably adaptive on balance unless the men allow poisonous cultural Marxists to take over their media in which case it’s bad – so the solution is to drive CM’s out of the media not change the tradition that worked well for the previous few thousand years.

    on the other hand i can understand why a lot of young men are so bitter about college feminists so i cut manosphere type alt-rightists some slack for that reason – i think most will come round eventually cos genetics – whatever they say in public most of them are genetically programmed to being white knights cos it was necessary in the cold north.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    What Tacitus describes is the luxury that barbarous or semi-barbarous societies can have with respect to gender relations. When you have lower levels of development, lower population, less settled life, less surplus wealth, and simpler, more direct forms of government among a society of people who are related or know each other, you can have this sort of luxury. Men are more free to fight and make war with one another, and likewise women are more free.
    , @Rosie

    on the other hand i can understand why a lot of young men are so bitter about college feminists so i cut manosphere type alt-rightists some slack for that reason – i think most will come round eventually cos genetics – whatever they say in public most of them are genetically programmed to being white knights cos it was necessary in the cold north.
     
    The problem is that "college feminists" have reasons of their own to be bitter. At some point, the mutual hostility and recrimination needs to stop. I might add that college feminists don't propose legalizing murder of men by their wives.
    , @Toronto Russian

    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations
     
    Lol, reminded me... Tale by a Russian historic reconstructor girl:

    Once there was an increased concentration of wackos who were suddenly interested in my humble person, specifically my page in a social network. Later, in hindsight, I understood it was my avatar. The photo was taken during one of the reconstruction festivals, I was in a chaste little headscarf, historic dress, with suitable entourage in the background - a fire in the night, tents... To sum up, you could wank away at all that spirituality.

    The fellow I remember most started with banalities. He friended me, showered me with compliments about my appearance, bragged that he lived by the laws of his ancestors and in harmony with nature. At that point conversation with him was still amusing, albeit a little crazy. Then dude began to ask me about some Slavic warrior honor codes and other bullshit. It was somewhat awkward to tell him to f*** off (we had talked fine before that), so I replied it was male stuff, I knew more about the female. And then he asked what a girl must be like. I made clear I could only tell him about Scandinavian ones, to which he replied it didn't matter - everywhere girls were valued who were meek, obedient, knowing how to please, etc. And he kinda hinted I was the right kind of girl that would suit him.

    In reply I just sent him a link to a famous article where the author, analyzing sources, proved it was kind of the opposite - Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.

    As a result, I turned out to be "not a real woman" and was proudly unfriended by that fellow. Perhaps I should have cried over such an eligible bachelor I missed.
     
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  107. utu says:
    @Rosie

    I don’t see why anything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny are necessarily incompatible with white or any form of nationalism.
     
    Both are incompatible with nationalism for exactly the same reason as anti-male varieties of feminism are incompatible with nationalism. Listen to manosphere guys and you will see very clearly that they don't care at all about Western Civilization or White interests. They are selfish little degenerates and traitors in waiting.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XnXTk62UpWg

    There are cases of pathology which are more likely to manifest itself within ideologies that objectify humans where humans are just biological machines that respond to external and internal forces like functions of their own design parameters. So no wonder that the manosphere will be associated with racialism, HBDism, IQism and also libertarianism which all are simplistic reductionist know-it-all ideologies which do not leave room for the unknown of the deeper mystery of what it means to be a human. There are no higher dimensions or transcendence. Young people, usually men, exposed to these ideologies will undergo some psychological devastation that will render them ‘subhuman’ just like the ideologies they subscribe to preach. Some grow out of it but some will remain trapped for life. All these ideologies are perfect for the PTB for which ‘animals’ are more manageable than humans. People subscribing to these ideologies are unable to formulate a compelling moral argument which suits the PTB very well. Abandoning morality and replacing it with simple legalism amounts to unilateral disarmament by population because ultimately it is who whom question. Look at the output of Steve Sailer. At best he can muster irony or sarcasm because in the homo homini lupus est world that he describes and live in there are no moral arguments.

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  108. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @notanon
    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(book)

    it worked very well - better than anywhere else imo

    and yes it means women are more of a pain than they would be otherwise but i think that's probably adaptive on balance unless the men allow poisonous cultural Marxists to take over their media in which case it's bad - so the solution is to drive CM's out of the media not change the tradition that worked well for the previous few thousand years.

    on the other hand i can understand why a lot of young men are so bitter about college feminists so i cut manosphere type alt-rightists some slack for that reason - i think most will come round eventually cos genetics - whatever they say in public most of them are genetically programmed to being white knights cos it was necessary in the cold north.

    What Tacitus describes is the luxury that barbarous or semi-barbarous societies can have with respect to gender relations. When you have lower levels of development, lower population, less settled life, less surplus wealth, and simpler, more direct forms of government among a society of people who are related or know each other, you can have this sort of luxury. Men are more free to fight and make war with one another, and likewise women are more free.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    i think it was an adaptation to living in the cold north - late marriage to keep the population below the Malthusian limit - which spread south during the migration period and thus became the western European tradition by accident.

    either way it's my tradition.

    i agree it makes women more of a pain but seeing as how women have always been around and how western civ has been so successful until recently and how that recent shift coincides with the culture being deliberately poisoned by the mass media imma gonna go with it being the poisonous media's fault.

    although i can see why a lot of dudes are bitter so i'm not going to spend too much time arguing about it - especially as i think most of them are genetically white knights so it's all bluster anyway.
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  109. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    If everything from mild manosphere style male chauvinism to extreme misogyny is incompatible with nationalism, then virtually anything short of gender egalitarianism is incompatible with nationalism.
     
    You're leaving out complementarianism, and benevolent patriarchy for that matter, neither of which are "male chauvinist."

    Saying that anti-male feminism is equivalent to male chauvinism or misogyny presupposes that men and women are fundamentally the same, which is not true.
     
    Nonsense.

    They are alike in that they are both transparent "divide and conquer" (((schemes))).

    I don’t know what you mean by “complementarianism” in this context. “Complementary” could include patriarchal societies with sexual divisions and divisions of labor between men and women.

    I think any form of patriarchy, including benevolent forms, would be described as male chauvinist, especially these days.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    I think any form of patriarchy, including benevolent forms, would be described as male chauvinist, especially these days.
     
    Some may describe them as such, but that doesn't make them so.
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  110. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    The sexual segregation of ancient Athens seems to have been more akin to contemporary Muslim than Western practice.
     
    Which is why they couldn't keep their hands off little boys.

    They had female prostitutes in ancient Athens, including state brothels with regulated prices. Moreover, there were many female slaves that men would use. So that wouldn’t explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    They had female prostitutes in ancient Athens, including state brothels with regulated prices. Moreover, there were many female slaves that men would use. So that wouldn’t explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.
     
    Not all by itself. There's also the fact that women were seen as too stupid and crass to be worthwhile intimate companions. Denied and education, this of course became a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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  111. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    Nationalism is simply a modern species of patriarchy, hence it is fundamentally “male chauvinist”, “sexist”, “misogynistic”, etc. Patriarchy is about related males acquiring and controlling territory thus breeding rights over the territory. Male breeding is contingent upon control and domination of territory, whereas female breeding is contingent upon other factors such as youth, fertility, beauty, etc.
     
    Thanks for proving my point. You are a repressed thug with fantasies of raping strange women en masse. You are not a patriot in the rooted, blood-and-soil sense.

    I said nothing about “raping strange women en masse”. That is a strange interpretation of my comment and speaks more to your repressed, or perhaps not so repressed, fantasies.

    “Blood and soil” refers to a particular group tied to a particular territory. How does that happen? By men who spill their blood on that soil in order to acquire, control, dominate, and defend it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    I said nothing about “raping strange women en masse”. That is a strange interpretation of my comment and speaks more to your repressed, or perhaps not so repressed, fantasies.

    “Blood and soil” refers to a particular group tied to a particular territory. How does that happen? By men who spill their blood on that soil in order to acquire, control, dominate, and defend it.
     
    I can't decide whether your brutish conception of nationalism is more dehumanizing to men or to women, but I'm leaning toward men.
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  112. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie
    Soviet rapist thugs were the real nationalists.

    http://theconversation.com/as-we-remember-ve-day-remember-too-the-german-women-who-were-raped-96196

    “D-Day GIs ‘raped and killed their French allies while US army generals turned a blind eye’”

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/422860/D-Day-GIs-raped-and-killed-their-French-allies-while-US-army-generals-turned-a-blind-eye

    The all-conquering GI was soon viewed with suspicion in France after US forces were accused of thousands of rapes, intimidation and having sex in daylight in parks, cemeteries and among the rubble of destroyed houses.

    Controversial new research has revealed that the Normandy invasion of the Second World War was a supercharged erotic adventure for some who, after fighting their way off the murderous beaches, expected to find free love from a grateful public.

    http://time.com/5303229/women-after-d-day/

    They called it the épuration sauvage, the wild purge, because it was spontaneous and unofficial. But, yes, it was savage, too. In the weeks and months following the D-Day landings of June 6, 1944, Allied troops and the resistance swept across France liberating towns and villages, and unleashing a flood of collective euphoria, relief and hope. And then the punishments began.

    The victims were among the most vulnerable members of the community: Women. Accused of “horizontal collaboration” — sleeping with the enemy — they were targeted by vigilantes and publicly humiliated. Their heads were shaved, they were stripped half-naked, smeared with tar, paraded through towns and taunted, stoned, kicked, beaten, spat upon and sometimes even killed.

    Read More
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  113. Matra says:

    Rosie ruins threads even faster than Mr Hack.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jayce
    She might be able to outperform Bliss in a league of their own, but she still lags way behind AaronB/Talha's impressive record. Looks like another solid win for the men.
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  114. notanon says:
    @Anonymous
    What Tacitus describes is the luxury that barbarous or semi-barbarous societies can have with respect to gender relations. When you have lower levels of development, lower population, less settled life, less surplus wealth, and simpler, more direct forms of government among a society of people who are related or know each other, you can have this sort of luxury. Men are more free to fight and make war with one another, and likewise women are more free.

    i think it was an adaptation to living in the cold north – late marriage to keep the population below the Malthusian limit – which spread south during the migration period and thus became the western European tradition by accident.

    either way it’s my tradition.

    i agree it makes women more of a pain but seeing as how women have always been around and how western civ has been so successful until recently and how that recent shift coincides with the culture being deliberately poisoned by the mass media imma gonna go with it being the poisonous media’s fault.

    although i can see why a lot of dudes are bitter so i’m not going to spend too much time arguing about it – especially as i think most of them are genetically white knights so it’s all bluster anyway.

    Read More
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  115. Jayce says:
    @Matra
    Rosie ruins threads even faster than Mr Hack.

    She might be able to outperform Bliss in a league of their own, but she still lags way behind AaronB/Talha’s impressive record. Looks like another solid win for the men.

    Read More
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  116. notanon says:

    FAKE NEWS? The Duran: 1 million Uighurs in Chinese “internment camps” (Video). Making the Chicoms out to be Nazis is amusing, but I have always suspected it is BS. A country that has affirmative action for minorities and condemns “Han chauvinism” is not going to be devising “final solutions” to the Uyghur Question.

    thing is…

    if you’ve been paying attention to the US counter insurgencies in places like Iraq and Afg or the earlier Russian one in Chechnya and were pondering how to win a guerrilla war against a clannish cousin marrying culture who are particularly well suited to such warfare then how would you go about if you had more of a free hand than either the USA or Russia but not a completely free hand?

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  117. You should give them away. Give them away now.

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  118. Rosie says:
    @notanon
    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(book)

    it worked very well - better than anywhere else imo

    and yes it means women are more of a pain than they would be otherwise but i think that's probably adaptive on balance unless the men allow poisonous cultural Marxists to take over their media in which case it's bad - so the solution is to drive CM's out of the media not change the tradition that worked well for the previous few thousand years.

    on the other hand i can understand why a lot of young men are so bitter about college feminists so i cut manosphere type alt-rightists some slack for that reason - i think most will come round eventually cos genetics - whatever they say in public most of them are genetically programmed to being white knights cos it was necessary in the cold north.

    on the other hand i can understand why a lot of young men are so bitter about college feminists so i cut manosphere type alt-rightists some slack for that reason – i think most will come round eventually cos genetics – whatever they say in public most of them are genetically programmed to being white knights cos it was necessary in the cold north.

    The problem is that “college feminists” have reasons of their own to be bitter. At some point, the mutual hostility and recrimination needs to stop. I might add that college feminists don’t propose legalizing murder of men by their wives.

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    the divide and rule on this issue has been very effective
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  119. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    I said nothing about "raping strange women en masse". That is a strange interpretation of my comment and speaks more to your repressed, or perhaps not so repressed, fantasies.

    "Blood and soil" refers to a particular group tied to a particular territory. How does that happen? By men who spill their blood on that soil in order to acquire, control, dominate, and defend it.

    I said nothing about “raping strange women en masse”. That is a strange interpretation of my comment and speaks more to your repressed, or perhaps not so repressed, fantasies.

    “Blood and soil” refers to a particular group tied to a particular territory. How does that happen? By men who spill their blood on that soil in order to acquire, control, dominate, and defend it.

    I can’t decide whether your brutish conception of nationalism is more dehumanizing to men or to women, but I’m leaning toward men.

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  120. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    They had female prostitutes in ancient Athens, including state brothels with regulated prices. Moreover, there were many female slaves that men would use. So that wouldn't explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.

    They had female prostitutes in ancient Athens, including state brothels with regulated prices. Moreover, there were many female slaves that men would use. So that wouldn’t explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.

    Not all by itself. There’s also the fact that women were seen as too stupid and crass to be worthwhile intimate companions. Denied and education, this of course became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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  121. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    I don't know what you mean by "complementarianism" in this context. "Complementary" could include patriarchal societies with sexual divisions and divisions of labor between men and women.

    I think any form of patriarchy, including benevolent forms, would be described as male chauvinist, especially these days.

    I think any form of patriarchy, including benevolent forms, would be described as male chauvinist, especially these days.

    Some may describe them as such, but that doesn’t make them so.

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  122. notanon says:
    @Rosie

    on the other hand i can understand why a lot of young men are so bitter about college feminists so i cut manosphere type alt-rightists some slack for that reason – i think most will come round eventually cos genetics – whatever they say in public most of them are genetically programmed to being white knights cos it was necessary in the cold north.
     
    The problem is that "college feminists" have reasons of their own to be bitter. At some point, the mutual hostility and recrimination needs to stop. I might add that college feminists don't propose legalizing murder of men by their wives.

    the divide and rule on this issue has been very effective

    Read More
    • Agree: Rosie
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  123. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    Rosie,

    I’m not sure what your conception of nationalism and politics is. You seem to have some sort of fairy tale like view. Read some history.

    Homosexuality and male companionship are not the same thing. Women not being allowed to get educations does not explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    You seem to have some sort of fairy tale like view.
     
    Spoken like a true cynic.

    I'm curious, Mr. Anglin. Do you think it's irrational for men to marry and have children if they're not allowed to imprison their wives? Unless he is a figment of my imagination, I have a husband who goes to work every day to support me and my children despite the theoretical possibility that I have cuckolded him. I'm personally am acquainted with literally dozens of women who enjoy the same family life. Yet, by your account, our husbands don't exist!

    Homosexuality and male companionship are not the same thing. Women not being allowed to get educations does not explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.
     
    Sure, and lack of access to women doesn't explain prison sodomy.
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  124. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    Rosie,

    I'm not sure what your conception of nationalism and politics is. You seem to have some sort of fairy tale like view. Read some history.

    Homosexuality and male companionship are not the same thing. Women not being allowed to get educations does not explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.

    You seem to have some sort of fairy tale like view.

    Spoken like a true cynic.

    I’m curious, Mr. Anglin. Do you think it’s irrational for men to marry and have children if they’re not allowed to imprison their wives? Unless he is a figment of my imagination, I have a husband who goes to work every day to support me and my children despite the theoretical possibility that I have cuckolded him. I’m personally am acquainted with literally dozens of women who enjoy the same family life. Yet, by your account, our husbands don’t exist!

    Homosexuality and male companionship are not the same thing. Women not being allowed to get educations does not explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.

    Sure, and lack of access to women doesn’t explain prison sodomy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    This is not a very productive exchange. You are making strange misinterpretations of my comments and posing weird straw men. You are making bizarre comments about your husband, cuckoldry, and imprisoning wives that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

    I already explained that the ancient Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, unlike prisoners.
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  125. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    You seem to have some sort of fairy tale like view.
     
    Spoken like a true cynic.

    I'm curious, Mr. Anglin. Do you think it's irrational for men to marry and have children if they're not allowed to imprison their wives? Unless he is a figment of my imagination, I have a husband who goes to work every day to support me and my children despite the theoretical possibility that I have cuckolded him. I'm personally am acquainted with literally dozens of women who enjoy the same family life. Yet, by your account, our husbands don't exist!

    Homosexuality and male companionship are not the same thing. Women not being allowed to get educations does not explain homosexuality in ancient Greece.
     
    Sure, and lack of access to women doesn't explain prison sodomy.

    This is not a very productive exchange. You are making strange misinterpretations of my comments and posing weird straw men. You are making bizarre comments about your husband, cuckoldry, and imprisoning wives that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

    I already explained that the ancient Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, unlike prisoners.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    You are making bizarre comments about your husband, cuckoldry, and imprisoning wives that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.
     
    It has everything to do with the subject at hand. You claim that civilization requires the imprisonment of women. I presume this has to do with the claim that men will only invest in their children if they have "assurances of paternity." If you have some other rationale for your endorsement of imprisoning women as a necessity for civilization, you'll have to spell it out for me. Otherwise, you have to account for the fact that there are millions of men who this very day are doing exactly what you claim they will not do: working to support the children they are not absolutely certain are theirs.

    I already explained that the ancient Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, unlike prisoners.
     
    Perhaps you should consider that if your vision of society presumes the existence of state-sanctioned sex trafficking, sexual slavery, and/or sodomy of boys in order to be remotely viable, there is something sick and depraved about it.
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  126. utu says:
    @Dmitry
    Yes things are already different in the last 20 years. All over Northern Europe, the bourgeoisie is rapidly including and producing many connoisseurs, and driving many improvements in cuisine.

    And accelerated now the changes a lot, the internet. The existence of online reviews is raising restaurant standards. And YouTube is spreading every nation's secret recipes, so a fellow in Sweden can cook pasta the same way as a Sicilian.

    But if we remember back to 20 years ago, before the internet and before the present level of connoisseurship - how much worse it was.

    -

    I had strong example in childhood.

    I remember my grandparents collected large amounts (baskets) of chanterelles (lisichki).

    Afterwards lazily put them in a pan, covered with cream (also with cheese?), where they soaked some unpleasant flavours. The result was eating unpleasant tasting cream with soggy but difficult to bite mushrooms.

    Later, visiting London, and walking through Harrods food court, we were shocked seeing the price of these same ones in London (where they are something like $150 for a basket of them). I was thinking "these don't even taste good".

    Obviously French or Italian style chefs, were turning this mushroom into masterpieces of cuisine, that people pay a lot for. Yet grandparents are turning this into soggy food, that you don't even like. The end result of whatever Italians are doing with this, and what your grandparents do, is something vast.

    However, nowadays with the internet - these gaps can be very easily closed. I'm sure Italians will still have a little more skill, but the knowledge gap can be closed with only 1 minute on the search engine.

    I suspect that chanterelles you had in childhood were not as bad as you remember. They are often made with cream or eggs as they need something smooth because their texture can be hard and rubbery. But their flavor is unique which some people do not like also because sometimes they have tangy/bitter aftertaste. In countries like Russia which kept old tradition of picking wild mushrooms they are not a big deal. In season you could have a lot of them. Peasants would eat them w/o a thought they were eating something special. But in countries were mushroom picking tradition was lost they are considered rare and a delicacy and so they are used sparingly as an addition only not a full meal of a big bowl of mushrooms. And they are pricy. Last time I saw them in a store in the US they were $35 per pound. So you use very small amounts of them and this makes a lot of difference.

    In 19c NYC fresh oysters were very cheap and constituted the main staple of dock workers and laborers. But now they are expensive and special so you order a dozen or so. But if you had to eat them by kilo you soon would be fed up and disgusted with them. This is a good example of Engels quantity has its own quality.

    Read More
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  127. @JJ
    Chinese GDP has to be under-reported. Someone made an interesting and useful table comparing key economics data among China, US, Japan, and India.

    https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2488663-1-2.html

    Chinese GDP has to be under-reported.

    It isn’t. You’re just misunderstanding what GDP means. GDP is simply the measure of how fast money flows. If me and you exchange IOU’s for 1 million dollars, our collective GDP is 2 million dollars, even though we did nothing productive and only wasted time.

    See this list, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_information_technology_companies#List

    Foxconn is worth 15 times less than Amazon. Is there anybody in the world that truly thinks that Amazon produces 15 times more useful stuff than Foxconn?

    Read More
    • Replies: @inertial
    I don't have an opinion on Chinese GDP but you are the one who don't understand what GDP means. You example with $1 million IOU will add zero to GDP. Market cap of a company is also irrelevant to GDP. Total revenue is a better measure but still not very good.
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  128. DFH says:
    @Rosie

    Why don’t you try making an argument as to why, instead of throwing a tantrum?

     

    Like Stephan Molyneux once said, the time for arguments is over.

    The Anglin article is clearly a joke.
     
    Ha ha ha so funny. Men should be able to put their wives down like dogs.

    It's not funny anymore.

    Like Stephan Molyneux once said, the time for arguments is over.

    …the time for female feelings is now!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    …the time for female feelings is now!
     
    Tell me, DFH. Are you seriously asking me to make an argument as to why it should be legal to kill me? If so, you misunderstand what it is exactly that arguments are for. Arguments are for persuading reasonable people who are not deranged psychopaths, and who therefore share certain basic moral premises common to decent people everywhere.
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  129. Now that I think about it, is this the nicest, most loving thing that Anglin ever wrote about women?

    DailyStormer is a website aimed towards white men, and white men find animals to be cute and treat them well. True or not, the self stereotype in white nationalist circles is that white men treat animals better compared to men from other races.
    And indeed, the first animal rights laws were passed in Nazi Germany.

    When my girlfriend was jobless for a few months and completely financially dependent on me, I liked to tease her that she’s my pet.
    The word for “pet” in Bulgarian is literally translated as “domestic adorable” by the way.

    So yeah, treat women like pets. Find yourself a cute and loyal one and take care of her and play with her.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Now that I think about it, is this the nicest, most loving thing that Anglin ever wrote about women?
     
    Yes, and that makes it all the more appalling.
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  130. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    This is not a very productive exchange. You are making strange misinterpretations of my comments and posing weird straw men. You are making bizarre comments about your husband, cuckoldry, and imprisoning wives that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

    I already explained that the ancient Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, unlike prisoners.

    You are making bizarre comments about your husband, cuckoldry, and imprisoning wives that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

    It has everything to do with the subject at hand. You claim that civilization requires the imprisonment of women. I presume this has to do with the claim that men will only invest in their children if they have “assurances of paternity.” If you have some other rationale for your endorsement of imprisoning women as a necessity for civilization, you’ll have to spell it out for me. Otherwise, you have to account for the fact that there are millions of men who this very day are doing exactly what you claim they will not do: working to support the children they are not absolutely certain are theirs.

    I already explained that the ancient Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, unlike prisoners.

    Perhaps you should consider that if your vision of society presumes the existence of state-sanctioned sex trafficking, sexual slavery, and/or sodomy of boys in order to be remotely viable, there is something sick and depraved about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    There's no point to continue this discussion as you're misinterpreting comments either out of duplicity either out of duplicity or ignorance.

    I didn't say anything about the "imprisonment of women".

    Ancient Greece was originally brought up as an example of a Western culture that would be regarded as extremely misogynistic by contemporary standards. You then suggested that this aspect of ancient Greece, particularly sexual segregation, explained the prevalence of homosexuality in ancient Greece. I then explained that the Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, and therefore lack of access to women did not explain homosexuality there.
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  131. Rosie says:
    @Spisarevski
    Now that I think about it, is this the nicest, most loving thing that Anglin ever wrote about women?

    DailyStormer is a website aimed towards white men, and white men find animals to be cute and treat them well. True or not, the self stereotype in white nationalist circles is that white men treat animals better compared to men from other races.
    And indeed, the first animal rights laws were passed in Nazi Germany.

    When my girlfriend was jobless for a few months and completely financially dependent on me, I liked to tease her that she's my pet.
    The word for "pet" in Bulgarian is literally translated as "domestic adorable" by the way.

    So yeah, treat women like pets. Find yourself a cute and loyal one and take care of her and play with her.

    Now that I think about it, is this the nicest, most loving thing that Anglin ever wrote about women?

    Yes, and that makes it all the more appalling.

    Read More
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  132. Rosie says:
    @DFH

    Like Stephan Molyneux once said, the time for arguments is over.
     
    ...the time for female feelings is now!

    …the time for female feelings is now!

    Tell me, DFH. Are you seriously asking me to make an argument as to why it should be legal to kill me? If so, you misunderstand what it is exactly that arguments are for. Arguments are for persuading reasonable people who are not deranged psychopaths, and who therefore share certain basic moral premises common to decent people everywhere.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH

    Tell me, DFH. Are you seriously asking me to make an argument as to why it should be legal to kill me? If so, you misunderstand what it is exactly that arguments are for. Arguments are for persuading reasonable people who are not deranged psychopaths, and who therefore share certain basic moral premises common to decent people everywhere.
     
    You are seriously deranged. My original question was for you to make an argument about why white nationalism and the manosphere are incompatible. I have no idea what you are rambling on about now.
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  133. DFH says:
    @Rosie

    …the time for female feelings is now!
     
    Tell me, DFH. Are you seriously asking me to make an argument as to why it should be legal to kill me? If so, you misunderstand what it is exactly that arguments are for. Arguments are for persuading reasonable people who are not deranged psychopaths, and who therefore share certain basic moral premises common to decent people everywhere.

    Tell me, DFH. Are you seriously asking me to make an argument as to why it should be legal to kill me? If so, you misunderstand what it is exactly that arguments are for. Arguments are for persuading reasonable people who are not deranged psychopaths, and who therefore share certain basic moral premises common to decent people everywhere.

    You are seriously deranged. My original question was for you to make an argument about why white nationalism and the manosphere are incompatible. I have no idea what you are rambling on about now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    You are seriously deranged. My original question was for you to make an argument about why white nationalism and the manosphere are incompatible. I have no idea what you are rambling on about now.
     
    Then I misunderstood. I thought you were asking me to make an argument as to why Anglin is wrong that women should have the same rights and status as domestic animals.

    As to your actual question, I suppose the answer depends on your definition of White nationalism. I assume White nationalism means White solidarity, which is unattainable so long as the likes of Anglin are tolerated in White nationalism. Like it or not, women have the right to vote, and threatening women's rights is at the very least counterproductive, if not prima facie evidence of an intent to sabotage.
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  134. Rosie says:
    @DFH

    Tell me, DFH. Are you seriously asking me to make an argument as to why it should be legal to kill me? If so, you misunderstand what it is exactly that arguments are for. Arguments are for persuading reasonable people who are not deranged psychopaths, and who therefore share certain basic moral premises common to decent people everywhere.
     
    You are seriously deranged. My original question was for you to make an argument about why white nationalism and the manosphere are incompatible. I have no idea what you are rambling on about now.

    You are seriously deranged. My original question was for you to make an argument about why white nationalism and the manosphere are incompatible. I have no idea what you are rambling on about now.

    Then I misunderstood. I thought you were asking me to make an argument as to why Anglin is wrong that women should have the same rights and status as domestic animals.

    As to your actual question, I suppose the answer depends on your definition of White nationalism. I assume White nationalism means White solidarity, which is unattainable so long as the likes of Anglin are tolerated in White nationalism. Like it or not, women have the right to vote, and threatening women’s rights is at the very least counterproductive, if not prima facie evidence of an intent to sabotage.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie
    BTW DHS, if you understand nationalism in the same way that anon does, then I concede that nationalism, so defined, is not inconsistent with the manosphere. I just disagree with your definition of nationalism.
    , @DFH
    So it's only for tactical reasons? I can't see an argument in what you've written beyond that. Did you know that most of the manosphere terminology (e.g. hypergamy) and concepts were invented by a white nationalist, FR Devlin?
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  135. Rosie says:
    @Rosie

    You are seriously deranged. My original question was for you to make an argument about why white nationalism and the manosphere are incompatible. I have no idea what you are rambling on about now.
     
    Then I misunderstood. I thought you were asking me to make an argument as to why Anglin is wrong that women should have the same rights and status as domestic animals.

    As to your actual question, I suppose the answer depends on your definition of White nationalism. I assume White nationalism means White solidarity, which is unattainable so long as the likes of Anglin are tolerated in White nationalism. Like it or not, women have the right to vote, and threatening women's rights is at the very least counterproductive, if not prima facie evidence of an intent to sabotage.

    BTW DHS, if you understand nationalism in the same way that anon does, then I concede that nationalism, so defined, is not inconsistent with the manosphere. I just disagree with your definition of nationalism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie
    You see DHS, this is exactly the reason why the manosphere guys need to go. They're kind of like the Jews who took over the Republican Party, expelled all the paleocons, and now lecture us about the nature of "true conservatism," which they define in such a way that it is incapable of conserving anything.

    Anon, above, begs the question by point blank redefining nationalism as identical with totally unmarketable, DOA manosphere drivel.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationalism
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  136. Rosie says:
    @Rosie
    BTW DHS, if you understand nationalism in the same way that anon does, then I concede that nationalism, so defined, is not inconsistent with the manosphere. I just disagree with your definition of nationalism.

    You see DHS, this is exactly the reason why the manosphere guys need to go. They’re kind of like the Jews who took over the Republican Party, expelled all the paleocons, and now lecture us about the nature of “true conservatism,” which they define in such a way that it is incapable of conserving anything.

    Anon, above, begs the question by point blank redefining nationalism as identical with totally unmarketable, DOA manosphere drivel.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nationalism

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  137. @notanon
    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(book)

    it worked very well - better than anywhere else imo

    and yes it means women are more of a pain than they would be otherwise but i think that's probably adaptive on balance unless the men allow poisonous cultural Marxists to take over their media in which case it's bad - so the solution is to drive CM's out of the media not change the tradition that worked well for the previous few thousand years.

    on the other hand i can understand why a lot of young men are so bitter about college feminists so i cut manosphere type alt-rightists some slack for that reason - i think most will come round eventually cos genetics - whatever they say in public most of them are genetically programmed to being white knights cos it was necessary in the cold north.

    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations

    Lol, reminded me… Tale by a Russian historic reconstructor girl:

    Once there was an increased concentration of wackos who were suddenly interested in my humble person, specifically my page in a social network. Later, in hindsight, I understood it was my avatar. The photo was taken during one of the reconstruction festivals, I was in a chaste little headscarf, historic dress, with suitable entourage in the background – a fire in the night, tents… To sum up, you could wank away at all that spirituality.

    The fellow I remember most started with banalities. He friended me, showered me with compliments about my appearance, bragged that he lived by the laws of his ancestors and in harmony with nature. At that point conversation with him was still amusing, albeit a little crazy. Then dude began to ask me about some Slavic warrior honor codes and other bullshit. It was somewhat awkward to tell him to f*** off (we had talked fine before that), so I replied it was male stuff, I knew more about the female. And then he asked what a girl must be like. I made clear I could only tell him about Scandinavian ones, to which he replied it didn’t matter – everywhere girls were valued who were meek, obedient, knowing how to please, etc. And he kinda hinted I was the right kind of girl that would suit him.

    In reply I just sent him a link to a famous article where the author, analyzing sources, proved it was kind of the opposite – Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.

    As a result, I turned out to be “not a real woman” and was proudly unfriended by that fellow. Perhaps I should have cried over such an eligible bachelor I missed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH
    why do larpers love Scandinavian paganism so much?
    , @notanon

    Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.
     
    quite - they think demur trad outfits means demur behavior

    having women who are a massive pain is probably a cultural adaptation to make sure you got enough firewood chopped for the winter
    , @Bies Podkrakowski

    In reply I just sent him a link to a famous article where the author, analyzing sources, proved it was kind of the opposite – Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.
     
    So, now we know the real reason for Viking forays. Their women.
    , @Rosamond Vincy
    Should have told him she knew how to wield an atgeir.
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  138. DFH says:
    @Rosie

    You are seriously deranged. My original question was for you to make an argument about why white nationalism and the manosphere are incompatible. I have no idea what you are rambling on about now.
     
    Then I misunderstood. I thought you were asking me to make an argument as to why Anglin is wrong that women should have the same rights and status as domestic animals.

    As to your actual question, I suppose the answer depends on your definition of White nationalism. I assume White nationalism means White solidarity, which is unattainable so long as the likes of Anglin are tolerated in White nationalism. Like it or not, women have the right to vote, and threatening women's rights is at the very least counterproductive, if not prima facie evidence of an intent to sabotage.

    So it’s only for tactical reasons? I can’t see an argument in what you’ve written beyond that. Did you know that most of the manosphere terminology (e.g. hypergamy) and concepts were invented by a white nationalist, FR Devlin?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    So it’s only for tactical reasons?
     
    "Only" for tactical reasons? Lol! I rest my case.

    I can’t see an argument in what you’ve written beyond that.
     
    Read it again. My point is this: You are arguing mere semantics. Even if one were to concede that manosphere bs is consistent with nationalism of a sort, the important question remains whether or not that kind of nationalism is (1) strategically viable and (2) good for Whites. It is neither.

    Did you know that most of the manosphere terminology (e.g. hypergamy) and concepts were invented by a white nationalist, FR Devlin?
     An interesting variation on the genetic fallacy there, DFH. It's kind of like a mirror image. Devlin is an armchair pseudo-intellectual who has no evidence whatsoever for his malarkey and worse still, isn't even intellectually honest enough to acknowledge the evidence against him.
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  139. DFH says:
    @Toronto Russian

    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations
     
    Lol, reminded me... Tale by a Russian historic reconstructor girl:

    Once there was an increased concentration of wackos who were suddenly interested in my humble person, specifically my page in a social network. Later, in hindsight, I understood it was my avatar. The photo was taken during one of the reconstruction festivals, I was in a chaste little headscarf, historic dress, with suitable entourage in the background - a fire in the night, tents... To sum up, you could wank away at all that spirituality.

    The fellow I remember most started with banalities. He friended me, showered me with compliments about my appearance, bragged that he lived by the laws of his ancestors and in harmony with nature. At that point conversation with him was still amusing, albeit a little crazy. Then dude began to ask me about some Slavic warrior honor codes and other bullshit. It was somewhat awkward to tell him to f*** off (we had talked fine before that), so I replied it was male stuff, I knew more about the female. And then he asked what a girl must be like. I made clear I could only tell him about Scandinavian ones, to which he replied it didn't matter - everywhere girls were valued who were meek, obedient, knowing how to please, etc. And he kinda hinted I was the right kind of girl that would suit him.

    In reply I just sent him a link to a famous article where the author, analyzing sources, proved it was kind of the opposite - Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.

    As a result, I turned out to be "not a real woman" and was proudly unfriended by that fellow. Perhaps I should have cried over such an eligible bachelor I missed.
     

    why do larpers love Scandinavian paganism so much?

    Read More
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  140. inertial says:
    @anonymous coward

    Chinese GDP has to be under-reported.
     
    It isn't. You're just misunderstanding what GDP means. GDP is simply the measure of how fast money flows. If me and you exchange IOU's for 1 million dollars, our collective GDP is 2 million dollars, even though we did nothing productive and only wasted time.

    See this list, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_information_technology_companies#List

    Foxconn is worth 15 times less than Amazon. Is there anybody in the world that truly thinks that Amazon produces 15 times more useful stuff than Foxconn?

    I don’t have an opinion on Chinese GDP but you are the one who don’t understand what GDP means. You example with $1 million IOU will add zero to GDP. Market cap of a company is also irrelevant to GDP. Total revenue is a better measure but still not very good.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    You example with $1 million IOU will add zero to GDP.
     
    Really? Think again. Here's a hint: you can label these IOU's as "intellectual property rights licensing agreements" (say, a license to quote unz.com comments), and deposit them in a bank for another IOU.

    Still think they add zero to GDP?
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  141. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    You are making bizarre comments about your husband, cuckoldry, and imprisoning wives that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.
     
    It has everything to do with the subject at hand. You claim that civilization requires the imprisonment of women. I presume this has to do with the claim that men will only invest in their children if they have "assurances of paternity." If you have some other rationale for your endorsement of imprisoning women as a necessity for civilization, you'll have to spell it out for me. Otherwise, you have to account for the fact that there are millions of men who this very day are doing exactly what you claim they will not do: working to support the children they are not absolutely certain are theirs.

    I already explained that the ancient Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, unlike prisoners.
     
    Perhaps you should consider that if your vision of society presumes the existence of state-sanctioned sex trafficking, sexual slavery, and/or sodomy of boys in order to be remotely viable, there is something sick and depraved about it.

    There’s no point to continue this discussion as you’re misinterpreting comments either out of duplicity either out of duplicity or ignorance.

    I didn’t say anything about the “imprisonment of women”.

    Ancient Greece was originally brought up as an example of a Western culture that would be regarded as extremely misogynistic by contemporary standards. You then suggested that this aspect of ancient Greece, particularly sexual segregation, explained the prevalence of homosexuality in ancient Greece. I then explained that the Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, and therefore lack of access to women did not explain homosexuality there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    Ancient Greece was originally brought up as an example of a Western culture that would be regarded as extremely misogynistic by contemporary standards. You then suggested that this aspect of ancient Greece, particularly sexual segregation, explained the prevalence of homosexuality in ancient Greece. I then explained that the Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, and therefore lack of access to women did not explain homosexuality there.
     
    You said that women's freedom is a luxury for barbarians and semi-barbarians. I quite reasonably surmised from this that you believe civilization requires the sequestration of married women in their homes as was customary in Ancient Greece. If I am wrong, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully.
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  142. Rosie says:
    @DFH
    So it's only for tactical reasons? I can't see an argument in what you've written beyond that. Did you know that most of the manosphere terminology (e.g. hypergamy) and concepts were invented by a white nationalist, FR Devlin?

    So it’s only for tactical reasons?

    “Only” for tactical reasons? Lol! I rest my case.

    I can’t see an argument in what you’ve written beyond that.

    Read it again. My point is this: You are arguing mere semantics. Even if one were to concede that manosphere bs is consistent with nationalism of a sort, the important question remains whether or not that kind of nationalism is (1) strategically viable and (2) good for Whites. It is neither.

    Did you know that most of the manosphere terminology (e.g. hypergamy) and concepts were invented by a white nationalist, FR Devlin?

    An interesting variation on the genetic fallacy there, DFH. It’s kind of like a mirror image. Devlin is an armchair pseudo-intellectual who has no evidence whatsoever for his malarkey and worse still, isn’t even intellectually honest enough to acknowledge the evidence against him.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH

    “Only” for tactical reasons? Lol! I rest my case.
     
    ???????????? I was summarising your comment


    Read it again. My point is this: You are arguing mere semantics. Even if one were to concede that manosphere bs is consistent with nationalism of a sort, the important question remains whether or not that kind of nationalism is (1) strategically viable and (2) good for Whites. It is neither.
     
    Why is it bad for white people? Still no argument for this (not that you've really done anything beyond assert that it's strategically viable either).

    Devlin is an armchair pseudo-intellectual
     
    Aren't all intellectuals armchair intellectuals? What is pseudo about him? He wrote a book about Kojeve, that seems pretty intellectual to me.

    who has no evidence whatsoever for his malarkey
     
    So women aren't hypergamous?



    isn’t even intellectually honest enough to acknowledge the evidence against him.
     
    Which is? What?

    So many words and emotions with so little content.
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  143. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    There's no point to continue this discussion as you're misinterpreting comments either out of duplicity either out of duplicity or ignorance.

    I didn't say anything about the "imprisonment of women".

    Ancient Greece was originally brought up as an example of a Western culture that would be regarded as extremely misogynistic by contemporary standards. You then suggested that this aspect of ancient Greece, particularly sexual segregation, explained the prevalence of homosexuality in ancient Greece. I then explained that the Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, and therefore lack of access to women did not explain homosexuality there.

    Ancient Greece was originally brought up as an example of a Western culture that would be regarded as extremely misogynistic by contemporary standards. You then suggested that this aspect of ancient Greece, particularly sexual segregation, explained the prevalence of homosexuality in ancient Greece. I then explained that the Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, and therefore lack of access to women did not explain homosexuality there.

    You said that women’s freedom is a luxury for barbarians and semi-barbarians. I quite reasonably surmised from this that you believe civilization requires the sequestration of married women in their homes as was customary in Ancient Greece. If I am wrong, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Both men's and women's freedom are restricted under civilization.

    I don't know exactly what the absolute minimum requirements for maintaining civilization across all times and situations are, but it does appear to be more restrictive than what prevails now.
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  144. The tradition on Long Island with excess zucchini is you leave them on your neighbors’ porches when they are away. If they are home but left the car unlocked or the windows rolled down, leave some on all seats except the driver’s.

    The problem is while you are out doing this, people are leaving their excess zucchini on your porch.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail

    The tradition on Long Island with excess zucchini is you leave them on your neighbors’ porches when they are away. If they are home but left the car unlocked or the windows rolled down, leave some on all seats except the driver’s.

    The problem is while you are out doing this, people are leaving their excess zucchini on your porch.

     

    Not familiar with that one.
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  145. DFH says:
    @Rosie

    So it’s only for tactical reasons?
     
    "Only" for tactical reasons? Lol! I rest my case.

    I can’t see an argument in what you’ve written beyond that.
     
    Read it again. My point is this: You are arguing mere semantics. Even if one were to concede that manosphere bs is consistent with nationalism of a sort, the important question remains whether or not that kind of nationalism is (1) strategically viable and (2) good for Whites. It is neither.

    Did you know that most of the manosphere terminology (e.g. hypergamy) and concepts were invented by a white nationalist, FR Devlin?
     An interesting variation on the genetic fallacy there, DFH. It's kind of like a mirror image. Devlin is an armchair pseudo-intellectual who has no evidence whatsoever for his malarkey and worse still, isn't even intellectually honest enough to acknowledge the evidence against him.

    “Only” for tactical reasons? Lol! I rest my case.

    ???????????? I was summarising your comment

    Read it again. My point is this: You are arguing mere semantics. Even if one were to concede that manosphere bs is consistent with nationalism of a sort, the important question remains whether or not that kind of nationalism is (1) strategically viable and (2) good for Whites. It is neither.

    Why is it bad for white people? Still no argument for this (not that you’ve really done anything beyond assert that it’s strategically viable either).

    Devlin is an armchair pseudo-intellectual

    Aren’t all intellectuals armchair intellectuals? What is pseudo about him? He wrote a book about Kojeve, that seems pretty intellectual to me.

    who has no evidence whatsoever for his malarkey

    So women aren’t hypergamous?

    isn’t even intellectually honest enough to acknowledge the evidence against him.

    Which is? What?

    So many words and emotions with so little content.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    ???????????? I was summarising your comment
     
    If you think "tactics" aren't important, then you don't care about White well-being, because you don't make winning your first priority. You need to go and will go.

    Why is it bad for white people? Still no argument for this (not that you’ve really done anything beyond assert that it’s strategically viable either)
     
    Because the manosphere agenda is bad for White women, who constitute half the White race.

    Which is? What?
     
    https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/

    "As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable. But with the basic ratings so out-of-whack, the two curves together suggest some strange possibilities for the female thought process, the most salient of which is that the average-looking woman has convinced herself that the vast majority of males aren’t good enough for her, but she then goes right out and messages them anyway.”
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  146. Rosie says:
    @DFH

    “Only” for tactical reasons? Lol! I rest my case.
     
    ???????????? I was summarising your comment


    Read it again. My point is this: You are arguing mere semantics. Even if one were to concede that manosphere bs is consistent with nationalism of a sort, the important question remains whether or not that kind of nationalism is (1) strategically viable and (2) good for Whites. It is neither.
     
    Why is it bad for white people? Still no argument for this (not that you've really done anything beyond assert that it's strategically viable either).

    Devlin is an armchair pseudo-intellectual
     
    Aren't all intellectuals armchair intellectuals? What is pseudo about him? He wrote a book about Kojeve, that seems pretty intellectual to me.

    who has no evidence whatsoever for his malarkey
     
    So women aren't hypergamous?



    isn’t even intellectually honest enough to acknowledge the evidence against him.
     
    Which is? What?

    So many words and emotions with so little content.

    ???????????? I was summarising your comment

    If you think “tactics” aren’t important, then you don’t care about White well-being, because you don’t make winning your first priority. You need to go and will go.

    Why is it bad for white people? Still no argument for this (not that you’ve really done anything beyond assert that it’s strategically viable either)

    Because the manosphere agenda is bad for White women, who constitute half the White race.

    Which is? What?

    https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/

    “As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh. On the other hand, when it comes to actual messaging, women shift their expectations only just slightly ahead of the curve, which is a healthier pattern than guys’ pursuing the all-but-unattainable. But with the basic ratings so out-of-whack, the two curves together suggest some strange possibilities for the female thought process, the most salient of which is that the average-looking woman has convinced herself that the vast majority of males aren’t good enough for her, but she then goes right out and messages them anyway.”

    Read More
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  147. notanon says:
    @Toronto Russian

    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations
     
    Lol, reminded me... Tale by a Russian historic reconstructor girl:

    Once there was an increased concentration of wackos who were suddenly interested in my humble person, specifically my page in a social network. Later, in hindsight, I understood it was my avatar. The photo was taken during one of the reconstruction festivals, I was in a chaste little headscarf, historic dress, with suitable entourage in the background - a fire in the night, tents... To sum up, you could wank away at all that spirituality.

    The fellow I remember most started with banalities. He friended me, showered me with compliments about my appearance, bragged that he lived by the laws of his ancestors and in harmony with nature. At that point conversation with him was still amusing, albeit a little crazy. Then dude began to ask me about some Slavic warrior honor codes and other bullshit. It was somewhat awkward to tell him to f*** off (we had talked fine before that), so I replied it was male stuff, I knew more about the female. And then he asked what a girl must be like. I made clear I could only tell him about Scandinavian ones, to which he replied it didn't matter - everywhere girls were valued who were meek, obedient, knowing how to please, etc. And he kinda hinted I was the right kind of girl that would suit him.

    In reply I just sent him a link to a famous article where the author, analyzing sources, proved it was kind of the opposite - Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.

    As a result, I turned out to be "not a real woman" and was proudly unfriended by that fellow. Perhaps I should have cried over such an eligible bachelor I missed.
     

    Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.

    quite – they think demur trad outfits means demur behavior

    having women who are a massive pain is probably a cultural adaptation to make sure you got enough firewood chopped for the winter

    Read More
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  148. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    Ancient Greece was originally brought up as an example of a Western culture that would be regarded as extremely misogynistic by contemporary standards. You then suggested that this aspect of ancient Greece, particularly sexual segregation, explained the prevalence of homosexuality in ancient Greece. I then explained that the Greeks had access to prostitutes and female slaves, and therefore lack of access to women did not explain homosexuality there.
     
    You said that women's freedom is a luxury for barbarians and semi-barbarians. I quite reasonably surmised from this that you believe civilization requires the sequestration of married women in their homes as was customary in Ancient Greece. If I am wrong, perhaps you should choose your words more carefully.

    Both men’s and women’s freedom are restricted under civilization.

    I don’t know exactly what the absolute minimum requirements for maintaining civilization across all times and situations are, but it does appear to be more restrictive than what prevails now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rosie

    I don’t know exactly what the absolute minimum requirements for maintaining civilization across all times and situations are, but it does appear to be more restrictive than what prevails now.
     
    We can certainly agree on that.
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  149. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous
    Both men's and women's freedom are restricted under civilization.

    I don't know exactly what the absolute minimum requirements for maintaining civilization across all times and situations are, but it does appear to be more restrictive than what prevails now.

    I don’t know exactly what the absolute minimum requirements for maintaining civilization across all times and situations are, but it does appear to be more restrictive than what prevails now.

    We can certainly agree on that.

    Read More
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  150. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Rosamond Vincy
    The tradition on Long Island with excess zucchini is you leave them on your neighbors' porches when they are away. If they are home but left the car unlocked or the windows rolled down, leave some on all seats except the driver's.

    The problem is while you are out doing this, people are leaving their excess zucchini on your porch.

    The tradition on Long Island with excess zucchini is you leave them on your neighbors’ porches when they are away. If they are home but left the car unlocked or the windows rolled down, leave some on all seats except the driver’s.

    The problem is while you are out doing this, people are leaving their excess zucchini on your porch.

    Not familiar with that one.

    Read More
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  151. What happened to some of our usual cast?

    Read More
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  152. dux.ie says:

    > chilli

    Try the Sichuan Chilli Hot Pot and use them in one go.

    https://www.skiddoo.com.sg/blog/travel/chengdu-sichuan-spice-and-homemade-hotpot.html

    And cool yourself with Chilli Vodka cocktail.

    http://www.yoursuperchef.com/chilli-vodka/106

    Read More
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  153. The Russians have announced that they have identified the missile which hit the Malaysian airliner. And they claim it was a Ukrainian missile.

    Though I just burned myself believing their version of the Skripal story, I think it certainly has some non-negligible probability of being true. It’s also not very relevant in that it was nevertheless probably the rebels who downed it, but at least Russian culpability (which would in any event amount to negligence only) would be greatly diminished.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-russia-13258734.amp

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    It’s also not very relevant in that it was nevertheless probably the rebels who downed it,

    How's that? As I recall, the Ukrainians said that none of their missiles had been captured by the rebels, so how would the rebels have done it?

    Here's the RT story which, not surprisingly, gives more [convincing?] details than the Mirror story you referred to:

    https://www.rt.com/news/438596-mh17-downing-russian-briefing/
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  154. AP says:

    Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is moving towards granting autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize his authority to do so, and if this goes through, this may well result in a schism between Constantinople and Moscow.

    Assuming the facts are correct, the EP’s case appears to be solid:

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/expert_thought/interview/72661/

    MP’s objections appear to be based on pure nationalism.

    There have been hints of conspiracy theories among Ukrainian Orthodox –

    The head of the Russian Church in Ukraine, Onuphrey, had been conspicuously absent in Moscow during the recent extraordinary session devoted to recent events, allegedly due to ill health. Was that the real reason?

    Ukrainians are saying EP should be careful – the day after Poland’s Church was granted Autocephaly in 1924 the physically healthy Patriarch died from a heart attack. Probably coincidence, but perhaps NKVD shenanigans?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail

    MP’s objections appear to be based on pure nationalism.

    There have been hints of conspiracy theories among Ukrainian Orthodox –

    The head of the Russian Church in Ukraine, Onuphrey, had been conspicuously absent in Moscow during the recent extraordinary session devoted to recent events, allegedly due to ill health. Was that the real reason?

    Ukrainians are saying EP should be careful – the day after Poland’s Church was granted Autocephaly in 1924 the physically healthy Patriarch died from a heart attack. Probably coincidence, but perhaps NKVD shenanigans?
     
    Plenty among the OC of the former Ukrainian SSR who don't want the status quo changed as desired by the nationalist take of Poroshenko and some others.

    Onufry not being in Moscow serves to underscore that the UOC is very much independent of the ROC-MP. The same holds true of the ROCOR.

    The last point about Poland appears absurd. In 1924, Poland was internationally recognized with an anti-Soviet and anti-Russian leaning government already in place. More likely that the OUN/UPA engaged in such shenanigans. We know that it actively engaged in terrorism against the Polish government. At that point in history, the USSR had a number of other things to concern itself with.
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  155. @Toronto Russian

    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations
     
    Lol, reminded me... Tale by a Russian historic reconstructor girl:

    Once there was an increased concentration of wackos who were suddenly interested in my humble person, specifically my page in a social network. Later, in hindsight, I understood it was my avatar. The photo was taken during one of the reconstruction festivals, I was in a chaste little headscarf, historic dress, with suitable entourage in the background - a fire in the night, tents... To sum up, you could wank away at all that spirituality.

    The fellow I remember most started with banalities. He friended me, showered me with compliments about my appearance, bragged that he lived by the laws of his ancestors and in harmony with nature. At that point conversation with him was still amusing, albeit a little crazy. Then dude began to ask me about some Slavic warrior honor codes and other bullshit. It was somewhat awkward to tell him to f*** off (we had talked fine before that), so I replied it was male stuff, I knew more about the female. And then he asked what a girl must be like. I made clear I could only tell him about Scandinavian ones, to which he replied it didn't matter - everywhere girls were valued who were meek, obedient, knowing how to please, etc. And he kinda hinted I was the right kind of girl that would suit him.

    In reply I just sent him a link to a famous article where the author, analyzing sources, proved it was kind of the opposite - Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.

    As a result, I turned out to be "not a real woman" and was proudly unfriended by that fellow. Perhaps I should have cried over such an eligible bachelor I missed.
     

    In reply I just sent him a link to a famous article where the author, analyzing sources, proved it was kind of the opposite – Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.

    So, now we know the real reason for Viking forays. Their women.

    Read More
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  156. @reiner Tor
    The Russians have announced that they have identified the missile which hit the Malaysian airliner. And they claim it was a Ukrainian missile.

    Though I just burned myself believing their version of the Skripal story, I think it certainly has some non-negligible probability of being true. It’s also not very relevant in that it was nevertheless probably the rebels who downed it, but at least Russian culpability (which would in any event amount to negligence only) would be greatly diminished.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-russia-13258734.amp

    It’s also not very relevant in that it was nevertheless probably the rebels who downed it,

    How’s that? As I recall, the Ukrainians said that none of their missiles had been captured by the rebels, so how would the rebels have done it?

    Here’s the RT story which, not surprisingly, gives more [convincing?] details than the Mirror story you referred to:

    https://www.rt.com/news/438596-mh17-downing-russian-briefing/

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    There was no Russian or rebel air activity, while there was Ukrainian air activity. Therefore, it's not logical for the Ukrainians to have air defense on a hair-trigger in the area, whereas it's logical for the rebels/Russians to do so.

    In other words, if you think it was the Ukrainians, you assume a bigger blunder on their part, or a false flag. Which are both (especially the latter) stronger claims, requiring stronger evidence.
    , @LondonBob
    Only the UAF had Buk missile systems in the area, therefore it must have been them.

    http://johnhelmer.net/the-mh17-missile-goes-home-to-ukraine/

    Shame Robert Parry is no longer with us to give his take.
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  157. HITMEN’S HOOKERS — How Russian hitmen smoked drugs and had sex with prostitute before Salisbury poison attack

    Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov kept guests awake by partying through the night in their £75-a-night twin room

    Guests described the stench of cannabis wafting from the accommodation they shared at the two-star City Stay Hotel in East London.

    They even complained to staff after the wanted Russian agents smuggled the hooker into their room for “noisy sex”.

    The hitmen went on to argue with hotel staff over their behaviour as they checked out the following morning — before catching a train to Salisbury where Sergei Skripal, 67, and daughter Yulia, 34, suffered a Novichok poison attack.

    A cleaner was forced to spend the next day clearing up the mess left by the assassins in London and the room has since been redecorated, with its walls painted brown. . .

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7268509/salisbury-russia-poisoning-drugs-sex-prostitutes-london/

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    That's the first evidence in a long time to strengthen the Russian case.
    , @Hyperborean
    It would have been funnier if they were gay.
    , @The Big Red Scary
    Who hired the Coen brothers to write the script-- British or Russian intelligence agencies?
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  158. @for-the-record

    HITMEN'S HOOKERS -- How Russian hitmen smoked drugs and had sex with prostitute before Salisbury poison attack

    Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov kept guests awake by partying through the night in their £75-a-night twin room

    Guests described the stench of cannabis wafting from the accommodation they shared at the two-star City Stay Hotel in East London.

    They even complained to staff after the wanted Russian agents smuggled the hooker into their room for “noisy sex”.

    The hitmen went on to argue with hotel staff over their behaviour as they checked out the following morning — before catching a train to Salisbury where Sergei Skripal, 67, and daughter Yulia, 34, suffered a Novichok poison attack.

    A cleaner was forced to spend the next day clearing up the mess left by the assassins in London and the room has since been redecorated, with its walls painted brown. . .

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7268509/salisbury-russia-poisoning-drugs-sex-prostitutes-london/
     

    That’s the first evidence in a long time to strengthen the Russian case.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    That’s the first evidence in a long time to strengthen the Russian case.

    If the evidence is "fake", this should be very easy for the Ukrainians to prove, so the ball is now in their court, so to speak.
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  159. @reiner Tor
    That's the first evidence in a long time to strengthen the Russian case.

    That’s the first evidence in a long time to strengthen the Russian case.

    If the evidence is “fake”, this should be very easy for the Ukrainians to prove, so the ball is now in their court, so to speak.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Ukrainians? We have two parallel conversations.
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  160. @for-the-record
    It’s also not very relevant in that it was nevertheless probably the rebels who downed it,

    How's that? As I recall, the Ukrainians said that none of their missiles had been captured by the rebels, so how would the rebels have done it?

    Here's the RT story which, not surprisingly, gives more [convincing?] details than the Mirror story you referred to:

    https://www.rt.com/news/438596-mh17-downing-russian-briefing/

    There was no Russian or rebel air activity, while there was Ukrainian air activity. Therefore, it’s not logical for the Ukrainians to have air defense on a hair-trigger in the area, whereas it’s logical for the rebels/Russians to do so.

    In other words, if you think it was the Ukrainians, you assume a bigger blunder on their part, or a false flag. Which are both (especially the latter) stronger claims, requiring stronger evidence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    In other words, if you think it was the Ukrainians, you assume a bigger blunder on their part, or a false flag.

    I'm not assuming it was the Ukrainians. But the Russians have presented apparent evidence that the missile used to down MH17 was in the possession of the Ukrainians, so it it is now up to the Ukrainians to offer evidence that:

    1. this is not true

    or

    2. that they somehow lost possession of the missile (accident, captured by rebels, etc.)
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  161. @for-the-record
    That’s the first evidence in a long time to strengthen the Russian case.

    If the evidence is "fake", this should be very easy for the Ukrainians to prove, so the ball is now in their court, so to speak.

    Ukrainians? We have two parallel conversations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    Sorry, misread your comment, thought you were talking about MH17.
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  162. @reiner Tor
    Ukrainians? We have two parallel conversations.

    Sorry, misread your comment, thought you were talking about MH17.

    Read More
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  163. @reiner Tor
    There was no Russian or rebel air activity, while there was Ukrainian air activity. Therefore, it's not logical for the Ukrainians to have air defense on a hair-trigger in the area, whereas it's logical for the rebels/Russians to do so.

    In other words, if you think it was the Ukrainians, you assume a bigger blunder on their part, or a false flag. Which are both (especially the latter) stronger claims, requiring stronger evidence.

    In other words, if you think it was the Ukrainians, you assume a bigger blunder on their part, or a false flag.

    I’m not assuming it was the Ukrainians. But the Russians have presented apparent evidence that the missile used to down MH17 was in the possession of the Ukrainians, so it it is now up to the Ukrainians to offer evidence that:

    1. this is not true

    or

    2. that they somehow lost possession of the missile (accident, captured by rebels, etc.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The difference is that Ukraine has international (i.e. Western/NATO/US sphere) support, which makes any requirement to counter the Russian evidence all the weaker.

    In other words, unlike Russia, which is working in a hostile propaganda environment, and is thus required to refute all easily refutable accusations, Ukraine doesn't need to do so.

    The most likely explanation is that yes, the rebels got hold of a Ukrainian Buk, but Ukraine lied about it to make Russia look worse. Now that their lie has been exposed (for observers willing to dig deeper than MSM propaganda), they are under no particular pressure to withdraw it.
    , @Mikhail
    Exactly. That the markings indicate a Ukrainian origin dlesn't mean that the rebels couldn't have acquired it, as they're known to possess numerous weaponry from the former Ukrainian SSR.

    Regardless, the Kiev regime isn't completely exempt of culpability for the reasons previously detailed.
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  164. @for-the-record

    HITMEN'S HOOKERS -- How Russian hitmen smoked drugs and had sex with prostitute before Salisbury poison attack

    Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov kept guests awake by partying through the night in their £75-a-night twin room

    Guests described the stench of cannabis wafting from the accommodation they shared at the two-star City Stay Hotel in East London.

    They even complained to staff after the wanted Russian agents smuggled the hooker into their room for “noisy sex”.

    The hitmen went on to argue with hotel staff over their behaviour as they checked out the following morning — before catching a train to Salisbury where Sergei Skripal, 67, and daughter Yulia, 34, suffered a Novichok poison attack.

    A cleaner was forced to spend the next day clearing up the mess left by the assassins in London and the room has since been redecorated, with its walls painted brown. . .

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7268509/salisbury-russia-poisoning-drugs-sex-prostitutes-london/
     

    It would have been funnier if they were gay.

    Read More
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  165. Read More
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  166. @Hyperborean
    I actually prefer the milder Chinese dishes. I went to a Sichuan-style restaurant once and, while a size of n=1 is not much, I was somewhat disappointed. Most of the dishes seemed like they depended on spice alone for taste, which made them very bland.

    Pepper has similar properties as capsaicin – why do you think it never reached that form of popularity?

    Bacon, I think, is another meme food that has reached worldwide popularity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Pepper has similar properties as capsaicin – why do you think it never reached that form of popularity?
     
    If I had to make a guess - perhaps something to do with initial price/availability factors?
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  167. Mr. Karlin, I think this news item might interest you:

    “U.S. companies expect to begin delivering LNG to Germany in four years at the latest, according to deputy U.S. energy secretary Dan Brouillette, and will challenge Russia which now accounts for 60% of German gas imports. In July, President Trump accused Germany of being a “captive” of Russia due to its energy reliance and urged it to halt work on the $11B, Russian-led Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.”

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4206578-wall-street-breakfast-next-phase-trade-war

    What is LNG?

    “Liquified natural gas (LNG) is the liquid form of natural gas at cryogenic temperature of −265°F (−160°C). When natural gas is turned into LNG, its volume shrinks by a factor of approximately 600. This reduction in volume enables the gas to be transported economically over long distances.Jan 15, 2018

    Liquified natural gas (LNG) – – PetroWiki”

    https://petrowiki.org/Liquified_natural_gas_(LNG)

    LNG tanker ships

    I think the need to build seaport facilities for handling Liqufied Natural Gas is the cause of the delay in starting LNG exports to Germany

    Methane, CH4, is the active ingredient in natural gas. Good quality natural gas is more than 90 percent CH4. All natural gas is not the same quality.

    Maybe Russia should get into the LNG export business to compete with USA and Canada?

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    LNG is more expensive, so it'd destroy Russia's price advantage. It'd make no sense for them.
    , @Spisarevski

    Maybe Russia should get into the LNG export business to compete with USA and Canada?
     
    They are already in that business.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZAOLqxCw7k


    They even exported some to the US, lol.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/tanker-carrying-liquefied-natural-gas-from-russias-arctic-arrives-in-boston/2018/01/28/08d3894c-0497-11e8-8777-2a059f168dd2_story.html?utm_term=.4c5491f4c1de

    and to Britain

    https://www.rt.com/business/420464-russia-lng-tanker-britain/
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  168. @for-the-record
    In other words, if you think it was the Ukrainians, you assume a bigger blunder on their part, or a false flag.

    I'm not assuming it was the Ukrainians. But the Russians have presented apparent evidence that the missile used to down MH17 was in the possession of the Ukrainians, so it it is now up to the Ukrainians to offer evidence that:

    1. this is not true

    or

    2. that they somehow lost possession of the missile (accident, captured by rebels, etc.)

    The difference is that Ukraine has international (i.e. Western/NATO/US sphere) support, which makes any requirement to counter the Russian evidence all the weaker.

    In other words, unlike Russia, which is working in a hostile propaganda environment, and is thus required to refute all easily refutable accusations, Ukraine doesn’t need to do so.

    The most likely explanation is that yes, the rebels got hold of a Ukrainian Buk, but Ukraine lied about it to make Russia look worse. Now that their lie has been exposed (for observers willing to dig deeper than MSM propaganda), they are under no particular pressure to withdraw it.

    Read More
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  169. @David Davenport
    Mr. Karlin, I think this news item might interest you:

    "U.S. companies expect to begin delivering LNG to Germany in four years at the latest, according to deputy U.S. energy secretary Dan Brouillette, and will challenge Russia which now accounts for 60% of German gas imports. In July, President Trump accused Germany of being a "captive" of Russia due to its energy reliance and urged it to halt work on the $11B, Russian-led Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline."

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4206578-wall-street-breakfast-next-phase-trade-war

    What is LNG?

    "Liquified natural gas (LNG) is the liquid form of natural gas at cryogenic temperature of −265°F (−160°C). When natural gas is turned into LNG, its volume shrinks by a factor of approximately 600. This reduction in volume enables the gas to be transported economically over long distances.Jan 15, 2018

    Liquified natural gas (LNG) - - PetroWiki"

    https://petrowiki.org/Liquified_natural_gas_(LNG)

    LNG tanker ships

    I think the need to build seaport facilities for handling Liqufied Natural Gas is the cause of the delay in starting LNG exports to Germany

    Methane, CH4, is the active ingredient in natural gas. Good quality natural gas is more than 90 percent CH4. All natural gas is not the same quality.

    Maybe Russia should get into the LNG export business to compete with USA and Canada?

    LNG is more expensive, so it’d destroy Russia’s price advantage. It’d make no sense for them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    LOL, before you begin opinionating, can't you at least use Google? Try searching "Yamal LNG", "Arctic LNG". A project on Sakhalin island has been online since 2009.
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  170. @David Davenport
    Mr. Karlin, I think this news item might interest you:

    "U.S. companies expect to begin delivering LNG to Germany in four years at the latest, according to deputy U.S. energy secretary Dan Brouillette, and will challenge Russia which now accounts for 60% of German gas imports. In July, President Trump accused Germany of being a "captive" of Russia due to its energy reliance and urged it to halt work on the $11B, Russian-led Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline."

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4206578-wall-street-breakfast-next-phase-trade-war

    What is LNG?

    "Liquified natural gas (LNG) is the liquid form of natural gas at cryogenic temperature of −265°F (−160°C). When natural gas is turned into LNG, its volume shrinks by a factor of approximately 600. This reduction in volume enables the gas to be transported economically over long distances.Jan 15, 2018

    Liquified natural gas (LNG) - - PetroWiki"

    https://petrowiki.org/Liquified_natural_gas_(LNG)

    LNG tanker ships

    I think the need to build seaport facilities for handling Liqufied Natural Gas is the cause of the delay in starting LNG exports to Germany

    Methane, CH4, is the active ingredient in natural gas. Good quality natural gas is more than 90 percent CH4. All natural gas is not the same quality.

    Maybe Russia should get into the LNG export business to compete with USA and Canada?
    Read More
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  171. @reiner Tor
    LNG is more expensive, so it'd destroy Russia's price advantage. It'd make no sense for them.

    LOL, before you begin opinionating, can’t you at least use Google? Try searching “Yamal LNG”, “Arctic LNG”. A project on Sakhalin island has been online since 2009.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I'm talking about selling to Germany LNG vs. via pipelines. What are you talking about?
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  172. @Felix Keverich
    LOL, before you begin opinionating, can't you at least use Google? Try searching "Yamal LNG", "Arctic LNG". A project on Sakhalin island has been online since 2009.

    I’m talking about selling to Germany LNG vs. via pipelines. What are you talking about?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    I'm sorry. It really seemed like you had no idea, that Russia was in this business at all.

    A quick googlesearch revealved that Germany is building regasification terminal for some reason. It's up to Russia to ensure it's filled with Russian gas.

    LNG has numerous advantages over pipeline exports: for one, Russian gas won't have to pass through a dosen of Eastern European countries, each of whom is going to exact its own "transit fee". Less income for lazy Eastern Europeans = GOOD.

    LNG supply is flexible like seaborn oil exports, and can be quickly diverted to any part of the world where it's needed. You're no longer stuck with Europe and its "common energy policy", which is basically collective extortion of Gazprom.

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  173. @for-the-record

    HITMEN'S HOOKERS -- How Russian hitmen smoked drugs and had sex with prostitute before Salisbury poison attack

    Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov kept guests awake by partying through the night in their £75-a-night twin room

    Guests described the stench of cannabis wafting from the accommodation they shared at the two-star City Stay Hotel in East London.

    They even complained to staff after the wanted Russian agents smuggled the hooker into their room for “noisy sex”.

    The hitmen went on to argue with hotel staff over their behaviour as they checked out the following morning — before catching a train to Salisbury where Sergei Skripal, 67, and daughter Yulia, 34, suffered a Novichok poison attack.

    A cleaner was forced to spend the next day clearing up the mess left by the assassins in London and the room has since been redecorated, with its walls painted brown. . .

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7268509/salisbury-russia-poisoning-drugs-sex-prostitutes-london/
     

    Who hired the Coen brothers to write the script– British or Russian intelligence agencies?

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    Who hired the Coen brothers to write the script?

    More of their work:

    Security services in hunt for 'Doctor Novichok' medic and a fourth man 'who met up with Salisbury hitmen in the UK'

    British intelligence are hunting a medic known as Dr Novichok they say accompanied the hitmen sent to poison ex-spy Sergei Skripal.

    Security services are searching for the medic along with a fourth man believed to have protected the Russians behind the Salisbury nerve agent attack . . .

    Dr Novichok could have been involved to avoid cross-contamination, a Whitehall source told The Sunday Mirror.

    Another role they believe the medic may have had was to ensure police and the NHS were not involved if one of the attackers accidentally poisoned himself. [!!!]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6172925/Security-services-hunt-Doctor-Novichok-medic-fourth-Salisbury-suspect.html
     
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  174. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople is moving towards granting autocephaly to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. The Moscow Patriarchate does not recognize his authority to do so, and if this goes through, this may well result in a schism between Constantinople and Moscow.
     
    Assuming the facts are correct, the EP's case appears to be solid:

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/expert_thought/interview/72661/

    MP's objections appear to be based on pure nationalism.

    There have been hints of conspiracy theories among Ukrainian Orthodox -

    The head of the Russian Church in Ukraine, Onuphrey, had been conspicuously absent in Moscow during the recent extraordinary session devoted to recent events, allegedly due to ill health. Was that the real reason?

    Ukrainians are saying EP should be careful - the day after Poland's Church was granted Autocephaly in 1924 the physically healthy Patriarch died from a heart attack. Probably coincidence, but perhaps NKVD shenanigans?

    MP’s objections appear to be based on pure nationalism.

    There have been hints of conspiracy theories among Ukrainian Orthodox –

    The head of the Russian Church in Ukraine, Onuphrey, had been conspicuously absent in Moscow during the recent extraordinary session devoted to recent events, allegedly due to ill health. Was that the real reason?

    Ukrainians are saying EP should be careful – the day after Poland’s Church was granted Autocephaly in 1924 the physically healthy Patriarch died from a heart attack. Probably coincidence, but perhaps NKVD shenanigans?

    Plenty among the OC of the former Ukrainian SSR who don’t want the status quo changed as desired by the nationalist take of Poroshenko and some others.

    Onufry not being in Moscow serves to underscore that the UOC is very much independent of the ROC-MP. The same holds true of the ROCOR.

    The last point about Poland appears absurd. In 1924, Poland was internationally recognized with an anti-Soviet and anti-Russian leaning government already in place. More likely that the OUN/UPA engaged in such shenanigans. We know that it actively engaged in terrorism against the Polish government. At that point in history, the USSR had a number of other things to concern itself with.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    Plenty among the OC of the former Ukrainian SSR who don’t want the status quo changed as desired by the nationalist take of Poroshenko and some others
     
    Polls consistently show that 2/3 of Orthodox in Ukraine support/belong to the currently schismatic Kiev Church and 1/3 support the Moscow Church. Many of those belonging to the Moscow Church - including Poroshenko himself, who is a deacon in that Church - would switch if the Kiev Church were brought into the family of Orthodox Churches.

    This would leave a hard core of Russian nationalists and ethnic Russians for whom the Russian Church is simply their national Church, remaining in the ROC in Ukraine.

    The last point about Poland appears absurd. In 1924, Poland was internationally recognized with an anti-Soviet and anti-Russian leaning government already in place.
     
    Last I heard, Ukraine is an internationally recognized state. It's government isn't particularly pro-Russian, either. Against Moscow's protests, Poland's Orthodox Church was granted Autocephaly and returned to the status it had before Russian gobbled up much of Poland.

    It is now Ukraine's turn, almost 30 years late.

    "the day after Poland’s Church was granted Autocephaly in 1924 the physically healthy Patriarch died from a heart attack. Probably coincidence, but perhaps NKVD shenanigans?"

    More likely that the OUN/UPA engaged in such shenanigans. We know that it actively engaged in terrorism against the Polish government.
     
    Are you suggesting that UPA/OUN (neither of which existed in 1924) murdered the Patriarch in Constantinople because he removed the Orthodox Church in Poland from Soviet Moscow's rule?

    What an interesting world you live in.
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  175. Mikhail says: • Website
    @for-the-record
    In other words, if you think it was the Ukrainians, you assume a bigger blunder on their part, or a false flag.

    I'm not assuming it was the Ukrainians. But the Russians have presented apparent evidence that the missile used to down MH17 was in the possession of the Ukrainians, so it it is now up to the Ukrainians to offer evidence that:

    1. this is not true

    or

    2. that they somehow lost possession of the missile (accident, captured by rebels, etc.)

    Exactly. That the markings indicate a Ukrainian origin dlesn’t mean that the rebels couldn’t have acquired it, as they’re known to possess numerous weaponry from the former Ukrainian SSR.

    Regardless, the Kiev regime isn’t completely exempt of culpability for the reasons previously detailed.

    Read More
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  176. @inertial
    I don't have an opinion on Chinese GDP but you are the one who don't understand what GDP means. You example with $1 million IOU will add zero to GDP. Market cap of a company is also irrelevant to GDP. Total revenue is a better measure but still not very good.

    You example with $1 million IOU will add zero to GDP.

    Really? Think again. Here’s a hint: you can label these IOU’s as “intellectual property rights licensing agreements” (say, a license to quote unz.com comments), and deposit them in a bank for another IOU.

    Still think they add zero to GDP?

    Read More
    • Replies: @inertial
    Of course.

    What people bashing GDP usually don't understand is that it is defined as the total value of final goods. "Final" means that it is calculated as the total value of all goods minus total "intermediate consumption" (total cost of stuff that went into producing those goods.) In other words, GDP is a value-added measure.

    So in your retarded example, the value of your "good" is $1 million but your "cost" is also $1 million, for the net contribution to GDP of zero. Same for the other side of the transaction.
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  177. AP says:
    @Mikhail

    MP’s objections appear to be based on pure nationalism.

    There have been hints of conspiracy theories among Ukrainian Orthodox –

    The head of the Russian Church in Ukraine, Onuphrey, had been conspicuously absent in Moscow during the recent extraordinary session devoted to recent events, allegedly due to ill health. Was that the real reason?

    Ukrainians are saying EP should be careful – the day after Poland’s Church was granted Autocephaly in 1924 the physically healthy Patriarch died from a heart attack. Probably coincidence, but perhaps NKVD shenanigans?
     
    Plenty among the OC of the former Ukrainian SSR who don't want the status quo changed as desired by the nationalist take of Poroshenko and some others.

    Onufry not being in Moscow serves to underscore that the UOC is very much independent of the ROC-MP. The same holds true of the ROCOR.

    The last point about Poland appears absurd. In 1924, Poland was internationally recognized with an anti-Soviet and anti-Russian leaning government already in place. More likely that the OUN/UPA engaged in such shenanigans. We know that it actively engaged in terrorism against the Polish government. At that point in history, the USSR had a number of other things to concern itself with.

    Plenty among the OC of the former Ukrainian SSR who don’t want the status quo changed as desired by the nationalist take of Poroshenko and some others

    Polls consistently show that 2/3 of Orthodox in Ukraine support/belong to the currently schismatic Kiev Church and 1/3 support the Moscow Church. Many of those belonging to the Moscow Church – including Poroshenko himself, who is a deacon in that Church – would switch if the Kiev Church were brought into the family of Orthodox Churches.

    This would leave a hard core of Russian nationalists and ethnic Russians for whom the Russian Church is simply their national Church, remaining in the ROC in Ukraine.

    The last point about Poland appears absurd. In 1924, Poland was internationally recognized with an anti-Soviet and anti-Russian leaning government already in place.

    Last I heard, Ukraine is an internationally recognized state. It’s government isn’t particularly pro-Russian, either. Against Moscow’s protests, Poland’s Orthodox Church was granted Autocephaly and returned to the status it had before Russian gobbled up much of Poland.

    It is now Ukraine’s turn, almost 30 years late.

    “the day after Poland’s Church was granted Autocephaly in 1924 the physically healthy Patriarch died from a heart attack. Probably coincidence, but perhaps NKVD shenanigans?”

    More likely that the OUN/UPA engaged in such shenanigans. We know that it actively engaged in terrorism against the Polish government.

    Are you suggesting that UPA/OUN (neither of which existed in 1924) murdered the Patriarch in Constantinople because he removed the Orthodox Church in Poland from Soviet Moscow’s rule?

    What an interesting world you live in.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail

    Polls consistently show that 2/3 of Orthodox in Ukraine support/belong to the currently schismatic Kiev Church and 1/3 support the Moscow Church. Many of those belonging to the Moscow Church – including Poroshenko himself, who is a deacon in that Church – would switch if the Kiev Church were brought into the family of Orthodox Churches.

    This would leave a hard core of Russian nationalists and ethnic Russians for whom the Russian Church is simply their national Church, remaining in the ROC in Ukraine.
     

    Polls can be quite inaccurate. The number of people participating in the Onufry involved UOC celebration of Christianity in Rus this past summer was noticeably larger than the nationalist one led by Poroshenko and Filaret.

    Last I heard, the Onfufry involved UOC didn't ask for government intervention.

    On your other point, a number of folks who became involved with the OUN/UPA had an established track record of terrorism starting at least in the early 1920s. For power struggle reasons, these nationalist elements violently quarreled among themselves, as well as with others.

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  178. @The Big Red Scary
    Who hired the Coen brothers to write the script-- British or Russian intelligence agencies?

    Who hired the Coen brothers to write the script?

    More of their work:

    Security services in hunt for ‘Doctor Novichok’ medic and a fourth man ‘who met up with Salisbury hitmen in the UK’

    British intelligence are hunting a medic known as Dr Novichok they say accompanied the hitmen sent to poison ex-spy Sergei Skripal.

    Security services are searching for the medic along with a fourth man believed to have protected the Russians behind the Salisbury nerve agent attack . . .

    Dr Novichok could have been involved to avoid cross-contamination, a Whitehall source told The Sunday Mirror.

    Another role they believe the medic may have had was to ensure police and the NHS were not involved if one of the attackers accidentally poisoned himself. [!!!]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6172925/Security-services-hunt-Doctor-Novichok-medic-fourth-Salisbury-suspect.html

    Read More
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  179. @reiner Tor
    I'm talking about selling to Germany LNG vs. via pipelines. What are you talking about?

    I’m sorry. It really seemed like you had no idea, that Russia was in this business at all.

    A quick googlesearch revealved that Germany is building regasification terminal for some reason. It’s up to Russia to ensure it’s filled with Russian gas.

    LNG has numerous advantages over pipeline exports: for one, Russian gas won’t have to pass through a dosen of Eastern European countries, each of whom is going to exact its own “transit fee”. Less income for lazy Eastern Europeans = GOOD.

    LNG supply is flexible like seaborn oil exports, and can be quickly diverted to any part of the world where it’s needed. You’re no longer stuck with Europe and its “common energy policy”, which is basically collective extortion of Gazprom.

    Read More
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  180. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Plenty among the OC of the former Ukrainian SSR who don’t want the status quo changed as desired by the nationalist take of Poroshenko and some others
     
    Polls consistently show that 2/3 of Orthodox in Ukraine support/belong to the currently schismatic Kiev Church and 1/3 support the Moscow Church. Many of those belonging to the Moscow Church - including Poroshenko himself, who is a deacon in that Church - would switch if the Kiev Church were brought into the family of Orthodox Churches.

    This would leave a hard core of Russian nationalists and ethnic Russians for whom the Russian Church is simply their national Church, remaining in the ROC in Ukraine.

    The last point about Poland appears absurd. In 1924, Poland was internationally recognized with an anti-Soviet and anti-Russian leaning government already in place.
     
    Last I heard, Ukraine is an internationally recognized state. It's government isn't particularly pro-Russian, either. Against Moscow's protests, Poland's Orthodox Church was granted Autocephaly and returned to the status it had before Russian gobbled up much of Poland.

    It is now Ukraine's turn, almost 30 years late.

    "the day after Poland’s Church was granted Autocephaly in 1924 the physically healthy Patriarch died from a heart attack. Probably coincidence, but perhaps NKVD shenanigans?"

    More likely that the OUN/UPA engaged in such shenanigans. We know that it actively engaged in terrorism against the Polish government.
     
    Are you suggesting that UPA/OUN (neither of which existed in 1924) murdered the Patriarch in Constantinople because he removed the Orthodox Church in Poland from Soviet Moscow's rule?

    What an interesting world you live in.

    Polls consistently show that 2/3 of Orthodox in Ukraine support/belong to the currently schismatic Kiev Church and 1/3 support the Moscow Church. Many of those belonging to the Moscow Church – including Poroshenko himself, who is a deacon in that Church – would switch if the Kiev Church were brought into the family of Orthodox Churches.

    This would leave a hard core of Russian nationalists and ethnic Russians for whom the Russian Church is simply their national Church, remaining in the ROC in Ukraine.

    Polls can be quite inaccurate. The number of people participating in the Onufry involved UOC celebration of Christianity in Rus this past summer was noticeably larger than the nationalist one led by Poroshenko and Filaret.

    Last I heard, the Onfufry involved UOC didn’t ask for government intervention.

    On your other point, a number of folks who became involved with the OUN/UPA had an established track record of terrorism starting at least in the early 1920s. For power struggle reasons, these nationalist elements violently quarreled among themselves, as well as with others.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    Polls can be quite inaccurate.
     
    All polls?

    They are probably more accurate than the self-serving claims of each Church.

    However I misspoke. 2/3 of self-identified Orthodox in Ukraine are not members of the schismatic Kiev Church. Rather, members of that Church outnumber those who declare themselves to be adherents of the Russian Church more 2:1. In the latest poll Kiev gets 45% support, Moscow 17% support, while about 34% declare they are simply Orthodox with no particular allegiance:

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/community/social_questioning/72673/

    Such results are not surprising, given that the most religious parts of Ukraine are in the West, and these parts are less friendly to Russia.

    The number of people participating in the Onufry involved UOC celebration of Christianity in Rus this past summer was noticeably larger than the nationalist one led by Poroshenko and Filaret
     
    Only if you compare the lowest estimate for the Kiev crowds with the highest estimate for the Moscow crowd.

    The Russian Church claimed 250,000 came out for its celebration; police estimated it was only 20,000.

    Pictures suggest more than 20,000 but much fewer than 250,000:

    https://imgclf.112.ua/original/2018/07/27/353196.jpeg

    https://imgclf.112.ua/original/2018/07/27/353192.jpeg

    Estimate for the Kiev Church's procession was 65,000:

    https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2018_07/thumb_files/630_360_1532773889-1780.jpeg

    At any rate, ultimately it's the number of believers that matters.
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  181. inertial says:
    @anonymous coward

    You example with $1 million IOU will add zero to GDP.
     
    Really? Think again. Here's a hint: you can label these IOU's as "intellectual property rights licensing agreements" (say, a license to quote unz.com comments), and deposit them in a bank for another IOU.

    Still think they add zero to GDP?

    Of course.

    What people bashing GDP usually don’t understand is that it is defined as the total value of final goods. “Final” means that it is calculated as the total value of all goods minus total “intermediate consumption” (total cost of stuff that went into producing those goods.) In other words, GDP is a value-added measure.

    So in your retarded example, the value of your “good” is $1 million but your “cost” is also $1 million, for the net contribution to GDP of zero. Same for the other side of the transaction.

    Read More
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  182. Russia might have used the S-400 system for the first time ever in Syria during a recent missile and/or drone attack on Latakia, Tartus and nearby targets.

    https://m.vz.ru/news/2018/9/17/942204.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @for-the-record
    Russia might have used the S-400 system for the first time ever in Syria

    How will they react to this, if at all?

    MOSCOW, September 18. /TASS/. Russia’s Il-20 military aircraft with 14 servicemen on board disappeared over the Mediterranean Sea, an official with Russia’s Defense Ministry told reporters on Tuesday.

    The plane went off the radar while F-16 fighters of the Israeli Air Force attacked targets in the Syrian province of Latakia, the fate of the Russian military is unknown, the official said.

    "On September 17, at about 11:00 Moscow time, the connection with the crew of the Russian Il-20 aircraft was lost over the Mediterranean Sea when the plane was returning to the airbase of Khmeimim, 35 kilometers from the coast of Syria," the official said.

    The ministry specified that "the mark of IL-20 went off the radars disappeared during the attack of four Israeli F-16 aircraft on Syrian targets in the province of Latakia."

    At the same time, the Russian radars fixed missile launches from the French frigate Auvergne, which was in that area," the Defense Ministry said.

    The official also said that there were 14 servicemen on board and their fate is unknown. The command Russia’s air base at Khmeimim launched a search and rescue operation.

    http://tass.com/defense/1022002
     
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  183. @Toronto Russian

    Tacitus describes the northern European tradition when it comes to gender relations
     
    Lol, reminded me... Tale by a Russian historic reconstructor girl:

    Once there was an increased concentration of wackos who were suddenly interested in my humble person, specifically my page in a social network. Later, in hindsight, I understood it was my avatar. The photo was taken during one of the reconstruction festivals, I was in a chaste little headscarf, historic dress, with suitable entourage in the background - a fire in the night, tents... To sum up, you could wank away at all that spirituality.

    The fellow I remember most started with banalities. He friended me, showered me with compliments about my appearance, bragged that he lived by the laws of his ancestors and in harmony with nature. At that point conversation with him was still amusing, albeit a little crazy. Then dude began to ask me about some Slavic warrior honor codes and other bullshit. It was somewhat awkward to tell him to f*** off (we had talked fine before that), so I replied it was male stuff, I knew more about the female. And then he asked what a girl must be like. I made clear I could only tell him about Scandinavian ones, to which he replied it didn't matter - everywhere girls were valued who were meek, obedient, knowing how to please, etc. And he kinda hinted I was the right kind of girl that would suit him.

    In reply I just sent him a link to a famous article where the author, analyzing sources, proved it was kind of the opposite - Scandinavian women were sassy, tart-tongued, smart, brave and decisive.

    As a result, I turned out to be "not a real woman" and was proudly unfriended by that fellow. Perhaps I should have cried over such an eligible bachelor I missed.
     

    Should have told him she knew how to wield an atgeir.

    Read More
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  184. AP says:
    @Mikhail

    Polls consistently show that 2/3 of Orthodox in Ukraine support/belong to the currently schismatic Kiev Church and 1/3 support the Moscow Church. Many of those belonging to the Moscow Church – including Poroshenko himself, who is a deacon in that Church – would switch if the Kiev Church were brought into the family of Orthodox Churches.

    This would leave a hard core of Russian nationalists and ethnic Russians for whom the Russian Church is simply their national Church, remaining in the ROC in Ukraine.
     

    Polls can be quite inaccurate. The number of people participating in the Onufry involved UOC celebration of Christianity in Rus this past summer was noticeably larger than the nationalist one led by Poroshenko and Filaret.

    Last I heard, the Onfufry involved UOC didn't ask for government intervention.

    On your other point, a number of folks who became involved with the OUN/UPA had an established track record of terrorism starting at least in the early 1920s. For power struggle reasons, these nationalist elements violently quarreled among themselves, as well as with others.

    Polls can be quite inaccurate.

    All polls?

    They are probably more accurate than the self-serving claims of each Church.

    However I misspoke. 2/3 of self-identified Orthodox in Ukraine are not members of the schismatic Kiev Church. Rather, members of that Church outnumber those who declare themselves to be adherents of the Russian Church more 2:1. In the latest poll Kiev gets 45% support, Moscow 17% support, while about 34% declare they are simply Orthodox with no particular allegiance:

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/community/social_questioning/72673/

    Such results are not surprising, given that the most religious parts of Ukraine are in the West, and these parts are less friendly to Russia.

    The number of people participating in the Onufry involved UOC celebration of Christianity in Rus this past summer was noticeably larger than the nationalist one led by Poroshenko and Filaret

    Only if you compare the lowest estimate for the Kiev crowds with the highest estimate for the Moscow crowd.

    The Russian Church claimed 250,000 came out for its celebration; police estimated it was only 20,000.

    Pictures suggest more than 20,000 but much fewer than 250,000:

    Estimate for the Kiev Church’s procession was 65,000:

    At any rate, ultimately it’s the number of believers that matters.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Unsurprising how you don't second guess the number marching in the Filaret/Porsohenko involved event. Meantime, numerous sources confirm the Onufry led march being the noticeably larger of the two.

    RISU polling is suspect as are comparative pictures that might show one procession at its greatest number unlike the other.

    Those hailing the Bartholomew move are the blinded nationalists. From a US based Georgian Orthodox Christian:

    http://orthochristian.com/110919.html

    Bartholomew has opened up the proverbial can of worms, given the complexities involving the status of Orthodox Christians in Montenegro and the (Former Yugoslav Republic of) Macedonia.

    In any event, it has been always understood that his role in Orthodox Christianity isn't along the lines of the Pope with Roman Catholics throughout the world.

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  185. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Polls can be quite inaccurate.
     
    All polls?

    They are probably more accurate than the self-serving claims of each Church.

    However I misspoke. 2/3 of self-identified Orthodox in Ukraine are not members of the schismatic Kiev Church. Rather, members of that Church outnumber those who declare themselves to be adherents of the Russian Church more 2:1. In the latest poll Kiev gets 45% support, Moscow 17% support, while about 34% declare they are simply Orthodox with no particular allegiance:

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/community/social_questioning/72673/

    Such results are not surprising, given that the most religious parts of Ukraine are in the West, and these parts are less friendly to Russia.

    The number of people participating in the Onufry involved UOC celebration of Christianity in Rus this past summer was noticeably larger than the nationalist one led by Poroshenko and Filaret
     
    Only if you compare the lowest estimate for the Kiev crowds with the highest estimate for the Moscow crowd.

    The Russian Church claimed 250,000 came out for its celebration; police estimated it was only 20,000.

    Pictures suggest more than 20,000 but much fewer than 250,000:

    https://imgclf.112.ua/original/2018/07/27/353196.jpeg

    https://imgclf.112.ua/original/2018/07/27/353192.jpeg

    Estimate for the Kiev Church's procession was 65,000:

    https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2018_07/thumb_files/630_360_1532773889-1780.jpeg

    At any rate, ultimately it's the number of believers that matters.

    Unsurprising how you don’t second guess the number marching in the Filaret/Porsohenko involved event. Meantime, numerous sources confirm the Onufry led march being the noticeably larger of the two.

    RISU polling is suspect as are comparative pictures that might show one procession at its greatest number unlike the other.

    Those hailing the Bartholomew move are the blinded nationalists. From a US based Georgian Orthodox Christian:

    http://orthochristian.com/110919.html

    Bartholomew has opened up the proverbial can of worms, given the complexities involving the status of Orthodox Christians in Montenegro and the (Former Yugoslav Republic of) Macedonia.

    In any event, it has been always understood that his role in Orthodox Christianity isn’t along the lines of the Pope with Roman Catholics throughout the world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    Unsurprising how you don’t second guess the number marching in the Filaret/Porsohenko involved event.
     
    KP people were claiming a number north of 100,000.

    Meantime, numerous sources confirm the Onufry led march being the noticeably larger of the two.
     
    Numerous claimed lower numbers too. So?

    RISU polling is suspect
     
    Poll wasn't done by RISU . Read more carefully. And it is numerous polls over many years, with similar figures.

    From a US based Georgian Orthodox Christian:

    http://orthochristian.com/110919.html
     
    Writes from a Russian or Serbian Orthodox website.

    In any event, it has been always understood that his role in Orthodox Christianity isn’t along the lines of the Pope with Roman Catholics throughout the world.
     
    Correct. This was explained in the first article I linked to.

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/expert_thought/interview/72661/

    Regarding the accusation by some people that Constantinople has fallen into the “heresy of papism”, it must be recalled that in the Holy Scriptures, the Apostle Paul compares the Church of Christ with the body in which Christ is the head and in which we are members (see Eph 5:23, 30; Col 1:18). But for us, the Orthodox, the Church is not something abstract, as for the Protestants, but something very concrete – a theandric organism, which is made up of concrete people. Therefore, according to the Orthodox Church law, the head of the local Church is a concrete person – the bishop. And according to the 34th Apostolic Canon, the bishops of the regional Church must recognize who is the first (protos), and recognize him as their head, and they must do nothing important without his knowledge. This rule has always been applied to the universal Church, because our Orthodox Church is one, it is the “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”, and not a confederation of separate independent Churches, as we see in Protestantism. As far as the Church is united, one body – the body of Christ –, it has one head. The Church is not a multi-headed monster! Therefore, in the letter that raised the Moscow throne to a patriarchate in 1590, it was stated that the bishop of Moscow must recognize the apostolic Constantinopolitan throne as “its head and protos”, as the other Orthodox patriarchs do. To renounce this means not only to lose these privileges that were given to the see of Moscow by patriarchal acts of Constantinople, but also to depart from the Orthodox doctrine of the Church, in accordance with the decisions of the Ecumenical Councils and the Holy Scriptures.
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  186. @reiner Tor
    Russia might have used the S-400 system for the first time ever in Syria during a recent missile and/or drone attack on Latakia, Tartus and nearby targets.

    https://m.vz.ru/news/2018/9/17/942204.html

    Russia might have used the S-400 system for the first time ever in Syria

    How will they react to this, if at all?

    MOSCOW, September 18. /TASS/. Russia’s Il-20 military aircraft with 14 servicemen on board disappeared over the Mediterranean Sea, an official with Russia’s Defense Ministry told reporters on Tuesday.

    The plane went off the radar while F-16 fighters of the Israeli Air Force attacked targets in the Syrian province of Latakia, the fate of the Russian military is unknown, the official said.

    “On September 17, at about 11:00 Moscow time, the connection with the crew of the Russian Il-20 aircraft was lost over the Mediterranean Sea when the plane was returning to the airbase of Khmeimim, 35 kilometers from the coast of Syria,” the official said.

    The ministry specified that “the mark of IL-20 went off the radars disappeared during the attack of four Israeli F-16 aircraft on Syrian targets in the province of Latakia.”

    At the same time, the Russian radars fixed missile launches from the French frigate Auvergne, which was in that area,” the Defense Ministry said.

    The official also said that there were 14 servicemen on board and their fate is unknown. The command Russia’s air base at Khmeimim launched a search and rescue operation.

    http://tass.com/defense/1022002

    Read More
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  187. Israel did this. Removing them from skies above Syria is the obvious next step, but I have a feeling Putin values his relationship with Netanyahoo more than he values lifes of Russian military personnel. Sadly, we live in a time when Russians can be killed with impunity, killed wholesale, and the Kremlin will shug it off.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    For what it's worth, the US is claiming the Syrians shot the plane down by accident. The Syrians were repelling an Israeli attack at the same time.
    , @reiner Tor
    Russia apparently accuses France. But it’s not very likely that an Israeli bombing raid using standoff air-to-surface missiles could down an airplane. Though with IFF turned on the “Syrians downed it by accident” explanation is problematic, too.
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  188. @Daniel Chieh
    Pepper has similar properties as capsaicin - why do you think it never reached that form of popularity?

    Bacon, I think, is another meme food that has reached worldwide popularity.

    Pepper has similar properties as capsaicin – why do you think it never reached that form of popularity?

    If I had to make a guess – perhaps something to do with initial price/availability factors?

    Read More
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  189. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich
    Israel did this. Removing them from skies above Syria is the obvious next step, but I have a feeling Putin values his relationship with Netanyahoo more than he values lifes of Russian military personnel. Sadly, we live in a time when Russians can be killed with impunity, killed wholesale, and the Kremlin will shug it off.

    For what it’s worth, the US is claiming the Syrians shot the plane down by accident. The Syrians were repelling an Israeli attack at the same time.

    Read More
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  190. AP says:
    @Mikhail
    Unsurprising how you don't second guess the number marching in the Filaret/Porsohenko involved event. Meantime, numerous sources confirm the Onufry led march being the noticeably larger of the two.

    RISU polling is suspect as are comparative pictures that might show one procession at its greatest number unlike the other.

    Those hailing the Bartholomew move are the blinded nationalists. From a US based Georgian Orthodox Christian:

    http://orthochristian.com/110919.html

    Bartholomew has opened up the proverbial can of worms, given the complexities involving the status of Orthodox Christians in Montenegro and the (Former Yugoslav Republic of) Macedonia.

    In any event, it has been always understood that his role in Orthodox Christianity isn't along the lines of the Pope with Roman Catholics throughout the world.

    Unsurprising how you don’t second guess the number marching in the Filaret/Porsohenko involved event.

    KP people were claiming a number north of 100,000.

    Meantime, numerous sources confirm the Onufry led march being the noticeably larger of the two.

    Numerous claimed lower numbers too. So?

    RISU polling is suspect

    Poll wasn’t done by RISU . Read more carefully. And it is numerous polls over many years, with similar figures.

    From a US based Georgian Orthodox Christian:

    http://orthochristian.com/110919.html

    Writes from a Russian or Serbian Orthodox website.

    In any event, it has been always understood that his role in Orthodox Christianity isn’t along the lines of the Pope with Roman Catholics throughout the world.

    Correct. This was explained in the first article I linked to.

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/expert_thought/interview/72661/

    Regarding the accusation by some people that Constantinople has fallen into the “heresy of papism”, it must be recalled that in the Holy Scriptures, the Apostle Paul compares the Church of Christ with the body in which Christ is the head and in which we are members (see Eph 5:23, 30; Col 1:18). But for us, the Orthodox, the Church is not something abstract, as for the Protestants, but something very concrete – a theandric organism, which is made up of concrete people. Therefore, according to the Orthodox Church law, the head of the local Church is a concrete person – the bishop. And according to the 34th Apostolic Canon, the bishops of the regional Church must recognize who is the first (protos), and recognize him as their head, and they must do nothing important without his knowledge. This rule has always been applied to the universal Church, because our Orthodox Church is one, it is the “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”, and not a confederation of separate independent Churches, as we see in Protestantism. As far as the Church is united, one body – the body of Christ –, it has one head. The Church is not a multi-headed monster! Therefore, in the letter that raised the Moscow throne to a patriarchate in 1590, it was stated that the bishop of Moscow must recognize the apostolic Constantinopolitan throne as “its head and protos”, as the other Orthodox patriarchs do. To renounce this means not only to lose these privileges that were given to the see of Moscow by patriarchal acts of Constantinople, but also to depart from the Orthodox doctrine of the Church, in accordance with the decisions of the Ecumenical Councils and the Holy Scriptures.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    I've my on the ground sources in Kiev who confirm that the Onufry led march was the more numerous. One is Ukrainian with another being Russo-Ukrainian. Both reflect a Ukrainian view which the likes of yourself continuously downplay, relating to matters like not being against the UOC having a loose affiliation with the ROC-MP.

    Wouldn't surprise if Porky, Filaret & Co. gave Bart a nice sum as some suggest.

    I'm aware of numerous suspect polls over the years. My suspicion is much better premised than Andreas Umland's second guessing of the overall public mood in Crimea:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/07092018-consistency-and-reality-lacking-on-crimea-analysis/
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  191. @Felix Keverich
    Israel did this. Removing them from skies above Syria is the obvious next step, but I have a feeling Putin values his relationship with Netanyahoo more than he values lifes of Russian military personnel. Sadly, we live in a time when Russians can be killed with impunity, killed wholesale, and the Kremlin will shug it off.

    Russia apparently accuses France. But it’s not very likely that an Israeli bombing raid using standoff air-to-surface missiles could down an airplane. Though with IFF turned on the “Syrians downed it by accident” explanation is problematic, too.

    Read More
    • Replies: @LondonBob
    There would be an incentive for an attacker to shoot down a surveillance aircraft. Also the Israelis created the environment that would have enabled a potential accidental shoot down. Should be the same response as there was to Turkey shooting down a Russian plane, Israel is weaker than Turkey.
    , @Felix Keverich

    Russia apparently accuses France.
     
    More than 24 hours after the incident this story has disappeared completely. I'm talking about French warship - no one is mentioning it anymore. To me that seems odd.

    Was there ever an actual warship? Did some Jew in Russian state-media apparatus made this up? To deflect the blame from Israel?
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  192. Some of the Chinese guests at the Russian military exercises were uninvited.

    https://news.usni.org/2018/09/17/china-sent-uninvited-spy-ship-russian-vostok-2018-exercise-alongside-troops-tanks

    Read More
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  193. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Unsurprising how you don’t second guess the number marching in the Filaret/Porsohenko involved event.
     
    KP people were claiming a number north of 100,000.

    Meantime, numerous sources confirm the Onufry led march being the noticeably larger of the two.
     
    Numerous claimed lower numbers too. So?

    RISU polling is suspect
     
    Poll wasn't done by RISU . Read more carefully. And it is numerous polls over many years, with similar figures.

    From a US based Georgian Orthodox Christian:

    http://orthochristian.com/110919.html
     
    Writes from a Russian or Serbian Orthodox website.

    In any event, it has been always understood that his role in Orthodox Christianity isn’t along the lines of the Pope with Roman Catholics throughout the world.
     
    Correct. This was explained in the first article I linked to.

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/expert_thought/interview/72661/

    Regarding the accusation by some people that Constantinople has fallen into the “heresy of papism”, it must be recalled that in the Holy Scriptures, the Apostle Paul compares the Church of Christ with the body in which Christ is the head and in which we are members (see Eph 5:23, 30; Col 1:18). But for us, the Orthodox, the Church is not something abstract, as for the Protestants, but something very concrete – a theandric organism, which is made up of concrete people. Therefore, according to the Orthodox Church law, the head of the local Church is a concrete person – the bishop. And according to the 34th Apostolic Canon, the bishops of the regional Church must recognize who is the first (protos), and recognize him as their head, and they must do nothing important without his knowledge. This rule has always been applied to the universal Church, because our Orthodox Church is one, it is the “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”, and not a confederation of separate independent Churches, as we see in Protestantism. As far as the Church is united, one body – the body of Christ –, it has one head. The Church is not a multi-headed monster! Therefore, in the letter that raised the Moscow throne to a patriarchate in 1590, it was stated that the bishop of Moscow must recognize the apostolic Constantinopolitan throne as “its head and protos”, as the other Orthodox patriarchs do. To renounce this means not only to lose these privileges that were given to the see of Moscow by patriarchal acts of Constantinople, but also to depart from the Orthodox doctrine of the Church, in accordance with the decisions of the Ecumenical Councils and the Holy Scriptures.

    I’ve my on the ground sources in Kiev who confirm that the Onufry led march was the more numerous. One is Ukrainian with another being Russo-Ukrainian. Both reflect a Ukrainian view which the likes of yourself continuously downplay, relating to matters like not being against the UOC having a loose affiliation with the ROC-MP.

    Wouldn’t surprise if Porky, Filaret & Co. gave Bart a nice sum as some suggest.

    I’m aware of numerous suspect polls over the years. My suspicion is much better premised than Andreas Umland’s second guessing of the overall public mood in Crimea:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/07092018-consistency-and-reality-lacking-on-crimea-analysis/

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    I’ve my on the ground sources in Kiev who confirm that the Onufry led march was the more numerous.
     
    Your personal claims, not backed by other evidence, is are irrelevant.

    I’m aware of numerous suspect polls over the years. My suspicion is much better premised than Andreas Umland’s second guessing of the overall public mood in Crimea
     
    We aren't discussing Crimea, and we are not discussing individual polls, but every single poll.

    Your claim that you know two people in Kiev and they told you something about the size of a procession doesn't trump every single poll showing 2-3 times more support for the schismatic Kiev Church than for the Moscow one in Ukraine. Which corresponds to the fact that church attendance and religiosity are greater in those parts of Ukraine that are more hostile to Moscow.
    , @Mr. Hack
    Mickey, I question your supposed 'unbiased' nature when discussing Orthodox church matters in Ukraine. Taking somebody like you seriously in such matters, somebody who's not even a Christian, is like taking seriously a musical review written by somebody who is a complete musical neophyte. Perhaps, you should follow the example of Brother Nathaniel, who even with all of his nutjob pronouncements, is more believable than you are:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-oc4rOEeVc

    Can't wait till Brother Nathniel comes out with his own analysis of the Ukrainian church receiving the Tomos. I'm guessing it will sound a lot like the junk that you are spewing, Mickey. :-)

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  194. LondonBob says:
    @reiner Tor
    Russia apparently accuses France. But it’s not very likely that an Israeli bombing raid using standoff air-to-surface missiles could down an airplane. Though with IFF turned on the “Syrians downed it by accident” explanation is problematic, too.

    There would be an incentive for an attacker to shoot down a surveillance aircraft. Also the Israelis created the environment that would have enabled a potential accidental shoot down. Should be the same response as there was to Turkey shooting down a Russian plane, Israel is weaker than Turkey.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    There would be an incentive for an attacker to shoot down a surveillance aircraft.
     
    True. Also there’d be some similarity to the USS Liberty incident. But the Russians have already said it was a stray Syrian air defense missile.

    the Israelis created the environment that would have enabled a potential accidental shoot down.
     
    Very true. The tone of the first Russian communiques was already way more hostile to Israel than usual.
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  195. LondonBob says:
    @for-the-record
    It’s also not very relevant in that it was nevertheless probably the rebels who downed it,

    How's that? As I recall, the Ukrainians said that none of their missiles had been captured by the rebels, so how would the rebels have done it?

    Here's the RT story which, not surprisingly, gives more [convincing?] details than the Mirror story you referred to:

    https://www.rt.com/news/438596-mh17-downing-russian-briefing/

    Only the UAF had Buk missile systems in the area, therefore it must have been them.

    http://johnhelmer.net/the-mh17-missile-goes-home-to-ukraine/

    Shame Robert Parry is no longer with us to give his take.

    Read More
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  196. LondonBob says:

    The American Empire, Zionists, the old neocon CIA Iran Contra network, US/Jewish Financial interests, whatever you want to call it, is hitting the European economy again.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-14/danske-bank-plunges-news-us-investigating-massive-money-laundering-fraud

    So that is Danske Bank, Russia sanctions, Iran sanctions, what next?

    Read More
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  197. @LondonBob
    There would be an incentive for an attacker to shoot down a surveillance aircraft. Also the Israelis created the environment that would have enabled a potential accidental shoot down. Should be the same response as there was to Turkey shooting down a Russian plane, Israel is weaker than Turkey.

    There would be an incentive for an attacker to shoot down a surveillance aircraft.

    True. Also there’d be some similarity to the USS Liberty incident. But the Russians have already said it was a stray Syrian air defense missile.

    the Israelis created the environment that would have enabled a potential accidental shoot down.

    Very true. The tone of the first Russian communiques was already way more hostile to Israel than usual.

    Read More
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  198. AP says:
    @Mikhail
    I've my on the ground sources in Kiev who confirm that the Onufry led march was the more numerous. One is Ukrainian with another being Russo-Ukrainian. Both reflect a Ukrainian view which the likes of yourself continuously downplay, relating to matters like not being against the UOC having a loose affiliation with the ROC-MP.

    Wouldn't surprise if Porky, Filaret & Co. gave Bart a nice sum as some suggest.

    I'm aware of numerous suspect polls over the years. My suspicion is much better premised than Andreas Umland's second guessing of the overall public mood in Crimea:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/07092018-consistency-and-reality-lacking-on-crimea-analysis/

    I’ve my on the ground sources in Kiev who confirm that the Onufry led march was the more numerous.

    Your personal claims, not backed by other evidence, is are irrelevant.

    I’m aware of numerous suspect polls over the years. My suspicion is much better premised than Andreas Umland’s second guessing of the overall public mood in Crimea

    We aren’t discussing Crimea, and we are not discussing individual polls, but every single poll.

    Your claim that you know two people in Kiev and they told you something about the size of a procession doesn’t trump every single poll showing 2-3 times more support for the schismatic Kiev Church than for the Moscow one in Ukraine. Which corresponds to the fact that church attendance and religiosity are greater in those parts of Ukraine that are more hostile to Moscow.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    You're wrong again as others have said the same concerning who had the larger procession.

    Every poll as in every poll that you agree with isn't a gauge for good accuracy.
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  199. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail
    I've my on the ground sources in Kiev who confirm that the Onufry led march was the more numerous. One is Ukrainian with another being Russo-Ukrainian. Both reflect a Ukrainian view which the likes of yourself continuously downplay, relating to matters like not being against the UOC having a loose affiliation with the ROC-MP.

    Wouldn't surprise if Porky, Filaret & Co. gave Bart a nice sum as some suggest.

    I'm aware of numerous suspect polls over the years. My suspicion is much better premised than Andreas Umland's second guessing of the overall public mood in Crimea:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/07092018-consistency-and-reality-lacking-on-crimea-analysis/

    Mickey, I question your supposed ‘unbiased’ nature when discussing Orthodox church matters in Ukraine. Taking somebody like you seriously in such matters, somebody who’s not even a Christian, is like taking seriously a musical review written by somebody who is a complete musical neophyte. Perhaps, you should follow the example of Brother Nathaniel, who even with all of his nutjob pronouncements, is more believable than you are:

    Can’t wait till Brother Nathniel comes out with his own analysis of the Ukrainian church receiving the Tomos. I’m guessing it will sound a lot like the junk that you are spewing, Mickey. :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Your anonymous coward self doesn't know my religious beliefs. So much for your ongoing junk that you spew.

    Later punk.
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  200. Dmitry says:

    Offtopic – my parents were just finished a holiday in Lithuania now. They think it seems very developed economically, compared to 15 years ago (EU wealth transfer helping) .

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    compared to 15 years ago
     
    One of my best friends was there circa 2002. He said then that it looked very developed (at least compared to Hungary), he never had the feeling that it was a previous Soviet republic. Though he only was in Vilnius, so maybe other parts of the country were worse.
    , @LatW

    Offtopic – my parents were just finished a holiday in Lithuania now. They think it seems very developed economically, compared to 15 years ago (EU wealth transfer helping) .
     
    The "EU transfer" is by far not the most important component (compared to other Central European countries, Lithuania receives less, and remember that the EU funds require solid co-funding from the national governments). More important than the EU funds are the EU markets which have done very well lately (75% of the export goes to the EU), so the Baltic states were able to grow by up to 3-4% the last few years. I'm very conservative when it comes to these things and this economic climate will probably not be eternal, but as far as the last few years, it appears to be real growth, we're lucky to have some high paying customers in Germany, the UK and Scandinavia. Of course, Russia and Poland are important export destinations, too. We've been able to tap into exotic markets, such as the Middle East, Canada, Kazakhstan (will try Brazil, the US, etc). Most of the revenue comes from mid size private enterprises, not the EU funds. Yea, no, the Baltic states are thriving. Lithuanians own large retail chains that are present in the whole region, and the Estonians created Transferwise - one of the few European fintech unicorns out there (yes, it operates globally, but it was incepted and is owned by the Estonian "Skype mafia").
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  201. @Dmitry
    Offtopic - my parents were just finished a holiday in Lithuania now. They think it seems very developed economically, compared to 15 years ago (EU wealth transfer helping) .

    compared to 15 years ago

    One of my best friends was there circa 2002. He said then that it looked very developed (at least compared to Hungary), he never had the feeling that it was a previous Soviet republic. Though he only was in Vilnius, so maybe other parts of the country were worse.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Yes that's what they say. They were in Vilnius and said it is very developed and bourgeois, like almost halfway to Scandinavia nowadays.

    I haven't been, just thought someone might be interested, if there's any Lithuanian here. And they sent a Lithuanian chocolate pizza - I'll report if their chocolate is at West European standard yet.

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  202. There have been warnings from financial insiders that the global economy could be more vulnerable to a repeat meltdown, than previously assumed.

    How would a global financial crisis impact the geopolitics of the planet? Which countries are the most vulerable? Can a global financial crisis disrupt current alliances?

    Read More
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  203. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    I’ve my on the ground sources in Kiev who confirm that the Onufry led march was the more numerous.
     
    Your personal claims, not backed by other evidence, is are irrelevant.

    I’m aware of numerous suspect polls over the years. My suspicion is much better premised than Andreas Umland’s second guessing of the overall public mood in Crimea
     
    We aren't discussing Crimea, and we are not discussing individual polls, but every single poll.

    Your claim that you know two people in Kiev and they told you something about the size of a procession doesn't trump every single poll showing 2-3 times more support for the schismatic Kiev Church than for the Moscow one in Ukraine. Which corresponds to the fact that church attendance and religiosity are greater in those parts of Ukraine that are more hostile to Moscow.

    You’re wrong again as others have said the same concerning who had the larger procession.

    Every poll as in every poll that you agree with isn’t a gauge for good accuracy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    Every poll as in every poll that you agree with
     
    Every poll as in every poll conducted, shows 2-3 times as many supporters for the schismatic Kiev Church than for Moscow's official one, in the second largest Orthodox country in the world. It's a ridiculous situation that is finally being addressed by the EP.

    Here are links describing various polls:

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/community/social_questioning/72673/

    In Ukraine, 45.2% of Orthodox Christians affiliate themselves with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyiv Patriarchate. This is evidenced by the results of a survey conducted in late August – early September jointly by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology, the Razumkov Center and SOCIS, according to Gordonua.com.

    16.9% of respondents who identified themselves as Orthodox regcognized themselves as adherents of the UOC-Moscow Patriarchate. 2.1% of those polled admitted affiliation with the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church.

    33.9% of the participants of the study chose the answer “I'm simply Orthodox, I do not affiliate with any denomination.”

    In total, 68.8% of the respondents recognized themselves as Orthodox.

    The surveys were conducted from August 30 to September 9. Using the method of standardized face-to-face interviews, 10,005 people aged 18 and older were interviewed at their place of residence. The statistical sampling error does not exceed 1%.

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    http://www.kiis.com.ua/materials/pr/20161807_religion/ENG%20Report%20on%20Religion%2018.07%20KIIS%20revised.pdf

    Among Orthodox, 56% Kiev Church, 16% Moscow Church, 19% "simply Orthodox" (don't care which one)

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    Feel free to try to find any poll that contradicts this. You won't :-)
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  204. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack
    Mickey, I question your supposed 'unbiased' nature when discussing Orthodox church matters in Ukraine. Taking somebody like you seriously in such matters, somebody who's not even a Christian, is like taking seriously a musical review written by somebody who is a complete musical neophyte. Perhaps, you should follow the example of Brother Nathaniel, who even with all of his nutjob pronouncements, is more believable than you are:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-oc4rOEeVc

    Can't wait till Brother Nathniel comes out with his own analysis of the Ukrainian church receiving the Tomos. I'm guessing it will sound a lot like the junk that you are spewing, Mickey. :-)

    Your anonymous coward self doesn’t know my religious beliefs. So much for your ongoing junk that you spew.

    Later punk.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Original! :-)
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  205. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail
    Your anonymous coward self doesn't know my religious beliefs. So much for your ongoing junk that you spew.

    Later punk.

    Original! :-)

    Read More
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  206. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    compared to 15 years ago
     
    One of my best friends was there circa 2002. He said then that it looked very developed (at least compared to Hungary), he never had the feeling that it was a previous Soviet republic. Though he only was in Vilnius, so maybe other parts of the country were worse.

    Yes that’s what they say. They were in Vilnius and said it is very developed and bourgeois, like almost halfway to Scandinavia nowadays.

    I haven’t been, just thought someone might be interested, if there’s any Lithuanian here. And they sent a Lithuanian chocolate pizza – I’ll report if their chocolate is at West European standard yet.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    And they sent a Lithuanian chocolate

     

    I can't report yet.
    But Lithuanian chocolate pizza, hopefully this is also at "developed" level.
    https://i.imgur.com/V7Xw6TU.jpg
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  207. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry
    Yes that's what they say. They were in Vilnius and said it is very developed and bourgeois, like almost halfway to Scandinavia nowadays.

    I haven't been, just thought someone might be interested, if there's any Lithuanian here. And they sent a Lithuanian chocolate pizza - I'll report if their chocolate is at West European standard yet.

    And they sent a Lithuanian chocolate

    I can’t report yet.
    But Lithuanian chocolate pizza, hopefully this is also at “developed” level.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    Lithuanian chocolate pizza
     
    I haven't seen this before, interesting design concept.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  208. @Dmitry

    And they sent a Lithuanian chocolate

     

    I can't report yet.
    But Lithuanian chocolate pizza, hopefully this is also at "developed" level.
    https://i.imgur.com/V7Xw6TU.jpg

    Lithuanian chocolate pizza

    I haven’t seen this before, interesting design concept.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I also was some sent some other Lithuanian chocolates, including freeze-dried strawberry with chocolate cover.

    Lithuanian chocolate seems quite civilized so far, without too much sugar.
    , @LatW
    It's quite typically Baltic - subdued earth tones with a Sun symbol in the middle. Maybe there should be another product with an added Slavic twist - brighter colors, bright reds, bright blue, etc. Maybe a large orange-red "Firebird" (Zhar ptitsa) in the middle.
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  209. AP says:
    @Mikhail
    You're wrong again as others have said the same concerning who had the larger procession.

    Every poll as in every poll that you agree with isn't a gauge for good accuracy.

    Every poll as in every poll that you agree with

    Every poll as in every poll conducted, shows 2-3 times as many supporters for the schismatic Kiev Church than for Moscow’s official one, in the second largest Orthodox country in the world. It’s a ridiculous situation that is finally being addressed by the EP.

    Here are links describing various polls:

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/community/social_questioning/72673/

    In Ukraine, 45.2% of Orthodox Christians affiliate themselves with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyiv Patriarchate. This is evidenced by the results of a survey conducted in late August – early September jointly by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology, the Razumkov Center and SOCIS, according to Gordonua.com.

    16.9% of respondents who identified themselves as Orthodox regcognized themselves as adherents of the UOC-Moscow Patriarchate. 2.1% of those polled admitted affiliation with the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church.

    33.9% of the participants of the study chose the answer “I’m simply Orthodox, I do not affiliate with any denomination.”

    In total, 68.8% of the respondents recognized themselves as Orthodox.

    The surveys were conducted from August 30 to September 9. Using the method of standardized face-to-face interviews, 10,005 people aged 18 and older were interviewed at their place of residence. The statistical sampling error does not exceed 1%.

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    http://www.kiis.com.ua/materials/pr/20161807_religion/ENG%20Report%20on%20Religion%2018.07%20KIIS%20revised.pdf

    Among Orthodox, 56% Kiev Church, 16% Moscow Church, 19% “simply Orthodox” (don’t care which one)

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    Feel free to try to find any poll that contradicts this. You won’t :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    Not at all:

    https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=cMyhW_TiBavp_QbE9KKADw&q=poll+ukrainian+orthodox+church+moscow+patriarchate&btnK=Google+Search&oq=poll+ukrainian+orthodox+church+moscow+patriarchate&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3773.19601..21670...1.0..0.83.3046.51......0....1..gws-wiz.......0j0i131j0i10j0i13j0i13i30j0i22i30j0i13i5i30j0i8i13i30j33i22i29i30j33i21j33i160j33i13i21.cfeFvIodhSc

    In line with Uncle Joe's comment about the most important factor in an election.

    Much of the polling in Ukraine is subject to the biases of the Kiev regime and the likes of anti-Russian leaning folks in academia along the lines of Andreas Umland.

    There's a UOC near me that includes a Kharkov born ethnic Ukrainian who I know. This UOC isn't affiliated in any way with the ROCOR or ROC-MP. Said person told me that the congregation of that church was pretty much split on which side to support during the Euromaidan.

    Over the years I know others who over the decades have had contact with that church. They tell me that it isn't a diehard svido thinking lot, along the lines of a number of UGCC congregations that honor Bandera.

    Fo0r good reason, credibility shouldn't be given to a power structure which readily accepts Umland's crock second guessing of the public mood in Crimea, in addition to his calling the Crimean Tatars the indigenous people of Crimea.

    This is the kind of environment which leads to instances like Porky blatantly lying when he said that Crimea's Jews haven't been able to observe their faith since Crimea has (once again) become a part of Russia.
    , @Mr. Hack
    You need to understand that whenever a poll appears that doesn't square with Averko's conception of how the world needs to be (and that's always that all thing good emanate from Moscow), then the poll is somehow tragically flawed. It doesn't matter that the sample size is quite large, covering a large swath of society, is objective and that the questions are clear and concise. His 'I know a guy' is a much better measure of reality (for him at least) :-)

    Over the years I know others

     


    I’ve my on the ground sources in Kiev
     
    And we're to believe that his 'on the ground sources' and 'others' that he knows (all unnamed sources) are to take precedence over scientifically conducted polls. Give me a break, Averko - you're so full of BS!


    '

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  210. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Every poll as in every poll that you agree with
     
    Every poll as in every poll conducted, shows 2-3 times as many supporters for the schismatic Kiev Church than for Moscow's official one, in the second largest Orthodox country in the world. It's a ridiculous situation that is finally being addressed by the EP.

    Here are links describing various polls:

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/community/social_questioning/72673/

    In Ukraine, 45.2% of Orthodox Christians affiliate themselves with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyiv Patriarchate. This is evidenced by the results of a survey conducted in late August – early September jointly by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology, the Razumkov Center and SOCIS, according to Gordonua.com.

    16.9% of respondents who identified themselves as Orthodox regcognized themselves as adherents of the UOC-Moscow Patriarchate. 2.1% of those polled admitted affiliation with the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church.

    33.9% of the participants of the study chose the answer “I'm simply Orthodox, I do not affiliate with any denomination.”

    In total, 68.8% of the respondents recognized themselves as Orthodox.

    The surveys were conducted from August 30 to September 9. Using the method of standardized face-to-face interviews, 10,005 people aged 18 and older were interviewed at their place of residence. The statistical sampling error does not exceed 1%.

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    http://www.kiis.com.ua/materials/pr/20161807_religion/ENG%20Report%20on%20Religion%2018.07%20KIIS%20revised.pdf

    Among Orthodox, 56% Kiev Church, 16% Moscow Church, 19% "simply Orthodox" (don't care which one)

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    Feel free to try to find any poll that contradicts this. You won't :-)

    Not at all:

    https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=cMyhW_TiBavp_QbE9KKADw&q=poll+ukrainian+orthodox+church+moscow+patriarchate&btnK=Google+Search&oq=poll+ukrainian+orthodox+church+moscow+patriarchate&gs_l=psy-ab.3…3773.19601..21670…1.0..0.83.3046.51……0….1..gws-wiz…….0j0i131j0i10j0i13j0i13i30j0i22i30j0i13i5i30j0i8i13i30j33i22i29i30j33i21j33i160j33i13i21.cfeFvIodhSc

    In line with Uncle Joe’s comment about the most important factor in an election.

    Much of the polling in Ukraine is subject to the biases of the Kiev regime and the likes of anti-Russian leaning folks in academia along the lines of Andreas Umland.

    There’s a UOC near me that includes a Kharkov born ethnic Ukrainian who I know. This UOC isn’t affiliated in any way with the ROCOR or ROC-MP. Said person told me that the congregation of that church was pretty much split on which side to support during the Euromaidan.

    Over the years I know others who over the decades have had contact with that church. They tell me that it isn’t a diehard svido thinking lot, along the lines of a number of UGCC congregations that honor Bandera.

    Fo0r good reason, credibility shouldn’t be given to a power structure which readily accepts Umland’s crock second guessing of the public mood in Crimea, in addition to his calling the Crimean Tatars the indigenous people of Crimea.

    This is the kind of environment which leads to instances like Porky blatantly lying when he said that Crimea’s Jews haven’t been able to observe their faith since Crimea has (once again) become a part of Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    You should stop arguing with AP: not only you're feeding a hohlo-troll, you helped him fill this thread with several pages worth of хохлосрач.
    , @AP
    Thanks for showing that you failed to find a single poll that contradicts the multiple polls showing 2 to 3 times more support for the Kiev schismatic Church than for the Moscow one in Ukraine. All you have is, "I have a friend who told me something about his church in America." Or some irrelevant stuff about something Poroshenko allegedly said about Jews in Crimea.
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  211. @reiner Tor
    Russia apparently accuses France. But it’s not very likely that an Israeli bombing raid using standoff air-to-surface missiles could down an airplane. Though with IFF turned on the “Syrians downed it by accident” explanation is problematic, too.

    Russia apparently accuses France.

    More than 24 hours after the incident this story has disappeared completely. I’m talking about French warship – no one is mentioning it anymore. To me that seems odd.

    Was there ever an actual warship? Did some Jew in Russian state-media apparatus made this up? To deflect the blame from Israel?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    It had to be a 'Jew'. How illuminating.
    , @Dmitry
    It was a claim from the Ministry of Defense. https://www.1tv.ru/news/2018-09-18/352499-v_sirii_sbit_rossiyskiy_samolet_il_20_hronika_sobytiy

    Whole story is not making sense for me. Israel only gave 1 minute of warning. But how did they not see the F-16s on the radar before (the plane shot down was even ELINT plane, and Latakia is covered by radar, including S-400 systems)?

    Also it's not clear why Syria would shoot down the IL-20. Some fighter planes "frame" another, turboprop plane from the other direction, so someone on the ground shoots it down? I'm not radar expert but this sounds scientifically impossible .

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  212. @Mikhail
    Not at all:

    https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=cMyhW_TiBavp_QbE9KKADw&q=poll+ukrainian+orthodox+church+moscow+patriarchate&btnK=Google+Search&oq=poll+ukrainian+orthodox+church+moscow+patriarchate&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3773.19601..21670...1.0..0.83.3046.51......0....1..gws-wiz.......0j0i131j0i10j0i13j0i13i30j0i22i30j0i13i5i30j0i8i13i30j33i22i29i30j33i21j33i160j33i13i21.cfeFvIodhSc

    In line with Uncle Joe's comment about the most important factor in an election.

    Much of the polling in Ukraine is subject to the biases of the Kiev regime and the likes of anti-Russian leaning folks in academia along the lines of Andreas Umland.

    There's a UOC near me that includes a Kharkov born ethnic Ukrainian who I know. This UOC isn't affiliated in any way with the ROCOR or ROC-MP. Said person told me that the congregation of that church was pretty much split on which side to support during the Euromaidan.

    Over the years I know others who over the decades have had contact with that church. They tell me that it isn't a diehard svido thinking lot, along the lines of a number of UGCC congregations that honor Bandera.

    Fo0r good reason, credibility shouldn't be given to a power structure which readily accepts Umland's crock second guessing of the public mood in Crimea, in addition to his calling the Crimean Tatars the indigenous people of Crimea.

    This is the kind of environment which leads to instances like Porky blatantly lying when he said that Crimea's Jews haven't been able to observe their faith since Crimea has (once again) become a part of Russia.

    You should stop arguing with AP: not only you’re feeding a hohlo-troll, you helped him fill this thread with several pages worth of хохлосрач.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Only a sovok like you Felix would consider a discusssion regarding the validity of polls to be 'хохлосрач.' Keep hiding your head in the sand, it's what you do so well.
    , @Mikhail
    Like Umland, he has been so convincing. When these types are uncritically propped (whether here or at JRL), many not knowing better can get subconsciously duped.
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  213. Mr. Hack says:
    @Felix Keverich
    You should stop arguing with AP: not only you're feeding a hohlo-troll, you helped him fill this thread with several pages worth of хохлосрач.

    Only a sovok like you Felix would consider a discusssion regarding the validity of polls to be ‘хохлосрач.’ Keep hiding your head in the sand, it’s what you do so well.

    Read More
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  214. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    Every poll as in every poll that you agree with
     
    Every poll as in every poll conducted, shows 2-3 times as many supporters for the schismatic Kiev Church than for Moscow's official one, in the second largest Orthodox country in the world. It's a ridiculous situation that is finally being addressed by the EP.

    Here are links describing various polls:

    https://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/community/social_questioning/72673/

    In Ukraine, 45.2% of Orthodox Christians affiliate themselves with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyiv Patriarchate. This is evidenced by the results of a survey conducted in late August – early September jointly by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology, the Razumkov Center and SOCIS, according to Gordonua.com.

    16.9% of respondents who identified themselves as Orthodox regcognized themselves as adherents of the UOC-Moscow Patriarchate. 2.1% of those polled admitted affiliation with the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church.

    33.9% of the participants of the study chose the answer “I'm simply Orthodox, I do not affiliate with any denomination.”

    In total, 68.8% of the respondents recognized themselves as Orthodox.

    The surveys were conducted from August 30 to September 9. Using the method of standardized face-to-face interviews, 10,005 people aged 18 and older were interviewed at their place of residence. The statistical sampling error does not exceed 1%.

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    http://www.kiis.com.ua/materials/pr/20161807_religion/ENG%20Report%20on%20Religion%2018.07%20KIIS%20revised.pdf

    Among Orthodox, 56% Kiev Church, 16% Moscow Church, 19% "simply Orthodox" (don't care which one)

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    Feel free to try to find any poll that contradicts this. You won't :-)

    You need to understand that whenever a poll appears that doesn’t square with Averko’s conception of how the world needs to be (and that’s always that all thing good emanate from Moscow), then the poll is somehow tragically flawed. It doesn’t matter that the sample size is quite large, covering a large swath of society, is objective and that the questions are clear and concise. His ‘I know a guy’ is a much better measure of reality (for him at least) :-)

    Over the years I know others

    I’ve my on the ground sources in Kiev

    And we’re to believe that his ‘on the ground sources’ and ‘others’ that he knows (all unnamed sources) are to take precedence over scientifically conducted polls. Give me a break, Averko – you’re so full of BS!

    Read More
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  215. Mr. Hack says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Russia apparently accuses France.
     
    More than 24 hours after the incident this story has disappeared completely. I'm talking about French warship - no one is mentioning it anymore. To me that seems odd.

    Was there ever an actual warship? Did some Jew in Russian state-media apparatus made this up? To deflect the blame from Israel?

    It had to be a ‘Jew’. How illuminating.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It feels more like media and Ministry of Defense was very excited about shooting down for about 18 hours. Putin told them to calm down, and today the shooting down is only more minor news.
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  216. Dmitry says:
    @Hyperborean

    Lithuanian chocolate pizza
     
    I haven't seen this before, interesting design concept.

    I also was some sent some other Lithuanian chocolates, including freeze-dried strawberry with chocolate cover.

    Lithuanian chocolate seems quite civilized so far, without too much sugar.

    Read More
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  217. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. Hack
    It had to be a 'Jew'. How illuminating.

    It feels more like media and Ministry of Defense was very excited about shooting down for about 18 hours. Putin told them to calm down, and today the shooting down is only more minor news.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    You mean that it wasn't a 'Jewish' conspiracy like our friend Keverich wa suggesting? Amazing! :-)

    Если в храни нет воды, значит выыпили ж___.
     
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  218. Mr. Hack says:
    @Dmitry
    It feels more like media and Ministry of Defense was very excited about shooting down for about 18 hours. Putin told them to calm down, and today the shooting down is only more minor news.

    You mean that it wasn’t a ‘Jewish’ conspiracy like our friend Keverich wa suggesting? Amazing! :-)

    Если в храни нет воды, значит выыпили ж___.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well this level of incompetence is difficult to believe - but it was said by the Ministry of Defense. Forgotten shortly afterwards.
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  219. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Russia apparently accuses France.
     
    More than 24 hours after the incident this story has disappeared completely. I'm talking about French warship - no one is mentioning it anymore. To me that seems odd.

    Was there ever an actual warship? Did some Jew in Russian state-media apparatus made this up? To deflect the blame from Israel?

    It was a claim from the Ministry of Defense. https://www.1tv.ru/news/2018-09-18/352499-v_sirii_sbit_rossiyskiy_samolet_il_20_hronika_sobytiy

    Whole story is not making sense for me. Israel only gave 1 minute of warning. But how did they not see the F-16s on the radar before (the plane shot down was even ELINT plane, and Latakia is covered by radar, including S-400 systems)?

    Also it’s not clear why Syria would shoot down the IL-20. Some fighter planes “frame” another, turboprop plane from the other direction, so someone on the ground shoots it down? I’m not radar expert but this sounds scientifically impossible .

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Israeli jets are in the air constantly at all times. In small groups, replacing each other. Occasionally they would launch a bunch of long-range missiles. This is how every Israeli attack in Syria happened.

    S200 operator presses a button to launch interceptor missile, the missile then searches for something in the air to kill, with Russian plane being bigger, easier target. I think this is what happened this time.

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  220. AP says:
    @Mikhail
    Not at all:

    https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=cMyhW_TiBavp_QbE9KKADw&q=poll+ukrainian+orthodox+church+moscow+patriarchate&btnK=Google+Search&oq=poll+ukrainian+orthodox+church+moscow+patriarchate&gs_l=psy-ab.3...3773.19601..21670...1.0..0.83.3046.51......0....1..gws-wiz.......0j0i131j0i10j0i13j0i13i30j0i22i30j0i13i5i30j0i8i13i30j33i22i29i30j33i21j33i160j33i13i21.cfeFvIodhSc

    In line with Uncle Joe's comment about the most important factor in an election.

    Much of the polling in Ukraine is subject to the biases of the Kiev regime and the likes of anti-Russian leaning folks in academia along the lines of Andreas Umland.

    There's a UOC near me that includes a Kharkov born ethnic Ukrainian who I know. This UOC isn't affiliated in any way with the ROCOR or ROC-MP. Said person told me that the congregation of that church was pretty much split on which side to support during the Euromaidan.

    Over the years I know others who over the decades have had contact with that church. They tell me that it isn't a diehard svido thinking lot, along the lines of a number of UGCC congregations that honor Bandera.

    Fo0r good reason, credibility shouldn't be given to a power structure which readily accepts Umland's crock second guessing of the public mood in Crimea, in addition to his calling the Crimean Tatars the indigenous people of Crimea.

    This is the kind of environment which leads to instances like Porky blatantly lying when he said that Crimea's Jews haven't been able to observe their faith since Crimea has (once again) become a part of Russia.

    Thanks for showing that you failed to find a single poll that contradicts the multiple polls showing 2 to 3 times more support for the Kiev schismatic Church than for the Moscow one in Ukraine. All you have is, “I have a friend who told me something about his church in America.” Or some irrelevant stuff about something Poroshenko allegedly said about Jews in Crimea.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    You've failed to prove me wrong yet again. The kind of polling that you prop is subject to error much like what you choose to highlight with some DNA studies.

    Meantime, my on the ground sources are in sync with what some others have observed.
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  221. @Dmitry
    It was a claim from the Ministry of Defense. https://www.1tv.ru/news/2018-09-18/352499-v_sirii_sbit_rossiyskiy_samolet_il_20_hronika_sobytiy

    Whole story is not making sense for me. Israel only gave 1 minute of warning. But how did they not see the F-16s on the radar before (the plane shot down was even ELINT plane, and Latakia is covered by radar, including S-400 systems)?

    Also it's not clear why Syria would shoot down the IL-20. Some fighter planes "frame" another, turboprop plane from the other direction, so someone on the ground shoots it down? I'm not radar expert but this sounds scientifically impossible .

    Israeli jets are in the air constantly at all times. In small groups, replacing each other. Occasionally they would launch a bunch of long-range missiles. This is how every Israeli attack in Syria happened.

    S200 operator presses a button to launch interceptor missile, the missile then searches for something in the air to kill, with Russian plane being bigger, easier target. I think this is what happened this time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Israeli jets are in the air constantly at all times. In small groups, replacing each other. Occasionally they would launch a bunch of long-range missiles. This is how every Israeli attack in Syria happened.
     
    I don't think that's likely they are constantly in this area or going there for training.

    Latakia is something over 700 kilometers distance for the planes - they have to fly over the whole length of Lebanon.

    The area of Latakia is covered by S-400 which can see them on the journey.

    With combat weapons load, they would also be much more visible on the radar than if it was training.

    The planes overfly Lebanon quite often for surveillance, but this is much nearer than going to Latakia.

    If they fly all the way up to Latakia, it could be assumed they will be doing an airstrike.

    According to latest news, they have bombed in Syria over 200 times in last 18 months.

    So Israel does airstrikes in Syria around 3 times per week. (So should be a normal assumption what the F-16 were doing).

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-6131153/Israel-confirms-200-strikes-Syria-18-months.html


    S200 operator presses a button to launch interceptor missile, the missile then searches for something in the air to kill, with Russian plane being bigger, easier target. I think this is what happened this time.
     
    They select the target on the ground.

    Missile tracks a target locked by ground operators. Its algorithm is for tracking the object which was selected.

    If it does not intercept the target, then it is supposed to self-destruct. It does not randomly run after a larger object, although the operator can call it to re-engage. (If S-200 runs after larger objects, it would be some kind of lottery of death for any planes in the area).

    It's possible there is some kind of misfunction in the old missile?

    Reading about happens with Ukraine when they shot down Siberia Airlines was obviously some operator error, that they had covered up as some kind of misfunctioning.

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  222. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich
    Israeli jets are in the air constantly at all times. In small groups, replacing each other. Occasionally they would launch a bunch of long-range missiles. This is how every Israeli attack in Syria happened.

    S200 operator presses a button to launch interceptor missile, the missile then searches for something in the air to kill, with Russian plane being bigger, easier target. I think this is what happened this time.

    Israeli jets are in the air constantly at all times. In small groups, replacing each other. Occasionally they would launch a bunch of long-range missiles. This is how every Israeli attack in Syria happened.

    I don’t think that’s likely they are constantly in this area or going there for training.

    Latakia is something over 700 kilometers distance for the planes – they have to fly over the whole length of Lebanon.

    The area of Latakia is covered by S-400 which can see them on the journey.

    With combat weapons load, they would also be much more visible on the radar than if it was training.

    The planes overfly Lebanon quite often for surveillance, but this is much nearer than going to Latakia.

    If they fly all the way up to Latakia, it could be assumed they will be doing an airstrike.

    According to latest news, they have bombed in Syria over 200 times in last 18 months.

    So Israel does airstrikes in Syria around 3 times per week. (So should be a normal assumption what the F-16 were doing).

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-6131153/Israel-confirms-200-strikes-Syria-18-months.html

    S200 operator presses a button to launch interceptor missile, the missile then searches for something in the air to kill, with Russian plane being bigger, easier target. I think this is what happened this time.

    They select the target on the ground.

    Missile tracks a target locked by ground operators. Its algorithm is for tracking the object which was selected.

    If it does not intercept the target, then it is supposed to self-destruct. It does not randomly run after a larger object, although the operator can call it to re-engage. (If S-200 runs after larger objects, it would be some kind of lottery of death for any planes in the area).

    It’s possible there is some kind of misfunction in the old missile?

    Reading about happens with Ukraine when they shot down Siberia Airlines was obviously some operator error, that they had covered up as some kind of misfunctioning.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    Latakia is something over 700 kilometers distance for the planes
     
    Distance from Haifa to Latakia 314 km. A lot closer than you think.
    https://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from-haifa-to-latakia
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  223. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. Hack
    You mean that it wasn't a 'Jewish' conspiracy like our friend Keverich wa suggesting? Amazing! :-)

    Если в храни нет воды, значит выыпили ж___.
     

    Well this level of incompetence is difficult to believe – but it was said by the Ministry of Defense. Forgotten shortly afterwards.

    Read More
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  224. @Dmitry

    Israeli jets are in the air constantly at all times. In small groups, replacing each other. Occasionally they would launch a bunch of long-range missiles. This is how every Israeli attack in Syria happened.
     
    I don't think that's likely they are constantly in this area or going there for training.

    Latakia is something over 700 kilometers distance for the planes - they have to fly over the whole length of Lebanon.

    The area of Latakia is covered by S-400 which can see them on the journey.

    With combat weapons load, they would also be much more visible on the radar than if it was training.

    The planes overfly Lebanon quite often for surveillance, but this is much nearer than going to Latakia.

    If they fly all the way up to Latakia, it could be assumed they will be doing an airstrike.

    According to latest news, they have bombed in Syria over 200 times in last 18 months.

    So Israel does airstrikes in Syria around 3 times per week. (So should be a normal assumption what the F-16 were doing).

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-6131153/Israel-confirms-200-strikes-Syria-18-months.html


    S200 operator presses a button to launch interceptor missile, the missile then searches for something in the air to kill, with Russian plane being bigger, easier target. I think this is what happened this time.
     
    They select the target on the ground.

    Missile tracks a target locked by ground operators. Its algorithm is for tracking the object which was selected.

    If it does not intercept the target, then it is supposed to self-destruct. It does not randomly run after a larger object, although the operator can call it to re-engage. (If S-200 runs after larger objects, it would be some kind of lottery of death for any planes in the area).

    It's possible there is some kind of misfunction in the old missile?

    Reading about happens with Ukraine when they shot down Siberia Airlines was obviously some operator error, that they had covered up as some kind of misfunctioning.

    Latakia is something over 700 kilometers distance for the planes

    Distance from Haifa to Latakia 314 km. A lot closer than you think.

    https://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from-haifa-to-latakia

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Haifa is in the North of Israel (in shelling range of Lebanon).

    But F-16I planes are flying 700 kilometers to Latakia.

    F-16I planes located in the Negev desert. I double check now - they are flying from these three airbases: Hatzerim airbase, Ramon Airbase and Nevatim airbase.

    Although there is an airbase near Haifa (called Ramat David Airbase) which has older F-16 models.

    -

    Either way, I don't think it is likely they will do training mission in territory which is covered by SAMs. If they fly into a dangerous area, it will be most likely a bombing mission.

    And I would also guess they are quite visible when they fly up there. S-400 should have a good view of planes flying up Lebanon's coast.

    This said, if their travel at low altitude at least 800 kilometers an hour?

    Their time flying North of Israel, will be not more than 23 minutes (if they fly in shortest straight line), so the warning distance is still not very large. So warning period when they are visible to Russian radar, and for a shorter period to Syrian radar, only long enough to brew tea.

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  225. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Latakia is something over 700 kilometers distance for the planes
     
    Distance from Haifa to Latakia 314 km. A lot closer than you think.
    https://www.distancefromto.net/distance-from-haifa-to-latakia

    Haifa is in the North of Israel (in shelling range of Lebanon).

    But F-16I planes are flying 700 kilometers to Latakia.

    F-16I planes located in the Negev desert. I double check now – they are flying from these three airbases: Hatzerim airbase, Ramon Airbase and Nevatim airbase.

    Although there is an airbase near Haifa (called Ramat David Airbase) which has older F-16 models.

    -

    Either way, I don’t think it is likely they will do training mission in territory which is covered by SAMs. If they fly into a dangerous area, it will be most likely a bombing mission.

    And I would also guess they are quite visible when they fly up there. S-400 should have a good view of planes flying up Lebanon’s coast.

    This said, if their travel at low altitude at least 800 kilometers an hour?

    Their time flying North of Israel, will be not more than 23 minutes (if they fly in shortest straight line), so the warning distance is still not very large. So warning period when they are visible to Russian radar, and for a shorter period to Syrian radar, only long enough to brew tea.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    F-16I planes located in the Negev desert. I double check now – they are flying from these three airbases: Hatzerim airbase, Ramon Airbase and Nevatim airbase.
     
    If it is true and there are only 3-4 airbases, then I cannot understand why Karlin is so chickenshit about military confrontation with Israel? Entire Israeli airforce could be wiped out with limited number of precision strikes. It doesn't matter if they have hundreds of planes including F35 and their pilots are best in the world: we only need to take out three airfields and that's it, they cannot fly.

    Am I the only one who finds Karlin's reverence to Israel disturbing?

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  226. LatW says:
    @Hyperborean

    Lithuanian chocolate pizza
     
    I haven't seen this before, interesting design concept.

    It’s quite typically Baltic – subdued earth tones with a Sun symbol in the middle. Maybe there should be another product with an added Slavic twist – brighter colors, bright reds, bright blue, etc. Maybe a large orange-red “Firebird” (Zhar ptitsa) in the middle.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    How mutually intelligible are Latvian and Lithuanians? Maybe you could translate the descriptions?
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  227. LatW says:
    @Dmitry
    Offtopic - my parents were just finished a holiday in Lithuania now. They think it seems very developed economically, compared to 15 years ago (EU wealth transfer helping) .

    Offtopic – my parents were just finished a holiday in Lithuania now. They think it seems very developed economically, compared to 15 years ago (EU wealth transfer helping) .

    The “EU transfer” is by far not the most important component (compared to other Central European countries, Lithuania receives less, and remember that the EU funds require solid co-funding from the national governments). More important than the EU funds are the EU markets which have done very well lately (75% of the export goes to the EU), so the Baltic states were able to grow by up to 3-4% the last few years. I’m very conservative when it comes to these things and this economic climate will probably not be eternal, but as far as the last few years, it appears to be real growth, we’re lucky to have some high paying customers in Germany, the UK and Scandinavia. Of course, Russia and Poland are important export destinations, too. We’ve been able to tap into exotic markets, such as the Middle East, Canada, Kazakhstan (will try Brazil, the US, etc). Most of the revenue comes from mid size private enterprises, not the EU funds. Yea, no, the Baltic states are thriving. Lithuanians own large retail chains that are present in the whole region, and the Estonians created Transferwise – one of the few European fintech unicorns out there (yes, it operates globally, but it was incepted and is owned by the Estonian “Skype mafia”).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    To be honest, I'm admiring some things about Baltic states, like their neoliberal economic philosophy. And also they are good in some areas like gun freedom law.

    I don't know if you eat Lithuanian chocolate in Latvia? So it's quite good quality (not making me feel sick like Ukrainian always does).

    This one on right is good. It's different packets of fruits which are covered in chocolate.

    Lol this one is "spanguoles" in Lithuanian language


    https://i.imgur.com/2nUYS5O.jpg?1
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  228. Dmitry says:
    @LatW

    Offtopic – my parents were just finished a holiday in Lithuania now. They think it seems very developed economically, compared to 15 years ago (EU wealth transfer helping) .
     
    The "EU transfer" is by far not the most important component (compared to other Central European countries, Lithuania receives less, and remember that the EU funds require solid co-funding from the national governments). More important than the EU funds are the EU markets which have done very well lately (75% of the export goes to the EU), so the Baltic states were able to grow by up to 3-4% the last few years. I'm very conservative when it comes to these things and this economic climate will probably not be eternal, but as far as the last few years, it appears to be real growth, we're lucky to have some high paying customers in Germany, the UK and Scandinavia. Of course, Russia and Poland are important export destinations, too. We've been able to tap into exotic markets, such as the Middle East, Canada, Kazakhstan (will try Brazil, the US, etc). Most of the revenue comes from mid size private enterprises, not the EU funds. Yea, no, the Baltic states are thriving. Lithuanians own large retail chains that are present in the whole region, and the Estonians created Transferwise - one of the few European fintech unicorns out there (yes, it operates globally, but it was incepted and is owned by the Estonian "Skype mafia").

    To be honest, I’m admiring some things about Baltic states, like their neoliberal economic philosophy. And also they are good in some areas like gun freedom law.

    I don’t know if you eat Lithuanian chocolate in Latvia? So it’s quite good quality (not making me feel sick like Ukrainian always does).

    This one on right is good. It’s different packets of fruits which are covered in chocolate.

    Lol this one is “spanguoles” in Lithuanian language

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    Have you ever tasted Finnish chocolate? I am quite fond of Fazer chocolate in particular and Finnish sweets in general.
    , @LatW

    To be honest, I’m admiring some things about Baltic states, like their neoliberal economic philosophy. And also they are good in some areas like gun freedom law.
     
    Well, I'm not really sure that the Baltic states are more "neoliberal" than other EE countries, certainly, many countries are neoliberal. The Baltic countries are certainly very free in some ways (some Western countries are overly micromanaged, regulated and then the countries in the east have problems with elections and the like). And when it comes to guns, one must have them - there are a lot of wild boar roaming around.

    I don’t know if you eat Lithuanian chocolate in Latvia?
     
    Always have, always will. :) Not just chocolate, but other stuff too - cheese, bred, beer, music, spas...

    I occasionally eat a Ukrainian candy called Romashka (Daisy), I quite like it.

    The candy that your folks brought is just chocolate covered cranberries (I suppose if you're gonna eat sugar, at least get some vitamin C with it). I kind of agree with you that less sugar is a sign of quality, but how do you make a candy that's both "guilt-free" (low sugar) and appetizing. So these North European berries are actually pretty good in a way that they are so sour that they balance out the sweetness of the chocolate (for instance, I'm sure Baltic and Russian grown cherries are quite sour compared to the ones grown in California, Washington state, etc). And, btw, you mentioned "Western standard" but I don't really see why that has to be some kind of a benchmark - we should set our own standards, healthiness and originality trumps everything.

    Btw, here's Latvian made gourmet chocolate (it's pricey but you can just buy a few of them as a gift):

    https://www.nelleulla.com/lv-ru/assortiment/shokoladnye-plitki-s-yagodami-kholodnoi-sushki/#menu

    I like the pitch: "В них горит Северное сияние, строптивость и вдохновение. Они вышли из вечнозеленых лесов, где растут полные сил, кислосладкие ягоды."

    I totally love it when they put a table in the middle of the forest and then set it up luxuriously.
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  229. @LatW
    It's quite typically Baltic - subdued earth tones with a Sun symbol in the middle. Maybe there should be another product with an added Slavic twist - brighter colors, bright reds, bright blue, etc. Maybe a large orange-red "Firebird" (Zhar ptitsa) in the middle.

    How mutually intelligible are Latvian and Lithuanians? Maybe you could translate the descriptions?

    Read More
    • Replies: @LatW

    How mutually intelligible are Latvian and Lithuanians?
     
    They're not mutually intelligible, but there are quite a few similar / identical words, and when you dig a bit deeper you can see the similarities. It kind of intuitively feels close, it's hard to explain. You pick up a lot of words from hanging out together as well.
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  230. @Dmitry
    To be honest, I'm admiring some things about Baltic states, like their neoliberal economic philosophy. And also they are good in some areas like gun freedom law.

    I don't know if you eat Lithuanian chocolate in Latvia? So it's quite good quality (not making me feel sick like Ukrainian always does).

    This one on right is good. It's different packets of fruits which are covered in chocolate.

    Lol this one is "spanguoles" in Lithuanian language


    https://i.imgur.com/2nUYS5O.jpg?1

    Have you ever tasted Finnish chocolate? I am quite fond of Fazer chocolate in particular and Finnish sweets in general.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I don't remember any Finnish in particular. Are you from Finland?

    My experience with this Lithuanian chocolate so far is that it generally is not very sweet (personally I think this is quite good, or sign of civilization in chocolate).
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  231. @Dmitry
    Haifa is in the North of Israel (in shelling range of Lebanon).

    But F-16I planes are flying 700 kilometers to Latakia.

    F-16I planes located in the Negev desert. I double check now - they are flying from these three airbases: Hatzerim airbase, Ramon Airbase and Nevatim airbase.

    Although there is an airbase near Haifa (called Ramat David Airbase) which has older F-16 models.

    -

    Either way, I don't think it is likely they will do training mission in territory which is covered by SAMs. If they fly into a dangerous area, it will be most likely a bombing mission.

    And I would also guess they are quite visible when they fly up there. S-400 should have a good view of planes flying up Lebanon's coast.

    This said, if their travel at low altitude at least 800 kilometers an hour?

    Their time flying North of Israel, will be not more than 23 minutes (if they fly in shortest straight line), so the warning distance is still not very large. So warning period when they are visible to Russian radar, and for a shorter period to Syrian radar, only long enough to brew tea.

    F-16I planes located in the Negev desert. I double check now – they are flying from these three airbases: Hatzerim airbase, Ramon Airbase and Nevatim airbase.

    If it is true and there are only 3-4 airbases, then I cannot understand why Karlin is so chickenshit about military confrontation with Israel? Entire Israeli airforce could be wiped out with limited number of precision strikes. It doesn’t matter if they have hundreds of planes including F35 and their pilots are best in the world: we only need to take out three airfields and that’s it, they cannot fly.

    Am I the only one who finds Karlin’s reverence to Israel disturbing?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Has i t ever occurred to you that a strike on Israel is paramount to being a strike on the US? I bet that Karlin has taken this into consideration.
    , @Dmitry

    If it is true and there are only 3-4 airbases, then I cannot understand why Karlin is so chickenshit about military confrontation with Israel? Entire Israeli airforce could be wiped out with limited number of precision strikes. It doesn’t matter if they have hundreds of planes including F35 and their pilots are best in the world: we only need to take out three airfields and that’s it, they cannot fly.
     
    I mean about the F-16I.

    So it's known planes are F-16s.

    For ground operation, they will use presumably F-16I. These are the ones with local avionics, which they would use for ground attacks.

    There are 100 F-16Is, and these are located at these three airbases.

    There are around 230 F-16s in Israel

    Overall airbases are more distributed. (but the main in the desert in the South).
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKIETw_W4AAyUU0.jpg


    -

    In terms of hypothetical Russia-Israel war, two airforces are probably around the same level in terms of fighter jets.

    But the airbases are out of operating range from each other for fighter aircraft. While long-range bombers would be shot down by fighter jets.

    So any military conflict, would only involve firing missiles. In missile conflict (assuming no nuclear weapons), Israel is more vulnerable geographically, but might have more advanced air-defense.
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  232. Mr. Hack says:
    @Felix Keverich

    F-16I planes located in the Negev desert. I double check now – they are flying from these three airbases: Hatzerim airbase, Ramon Airbase and Nevatim airbase.
     
    If it is true and there are only 3-4 airbases, then I cannot understand why Karlin is so chickenshit about military confrontation with Israel? Entire Israeli airforce could be wiped out with limited number of precision strikes. It doesn't matter if they have hundreds of planes including F35 and their pilots are best in the world: we only need to take out three airfields and that's it, they cannot fly.

    Am I the only one who finds Karlin's reverence to Israel disturbing?

    Has i t ever occurred to you that a strike on Israel is paramount to being a strike on the US? I bet that Karlin has taken this into consideration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Ultimately Russia and Israel have nuclear weapons with ICBMs, with some second strike options. In Russia, much more second-strike capability, but it's just decoration beyond basics with this.

    MAD is operating between them which would stop a serious conflict , as with America, France, UK, China, Pakistan, India, etc.

    But probability of war between Israel and Russia is 0 with current governments. Even in WW3, I would doubt there would be conflict between these two.

    There's no overlapping conflict of interest. Only tensions are based in which country is allied with which other country, and who is using who for propaganda with difference audience demographics.

    Historically, especially in Europe, countries being allied with each other's enemies can lead to war, but here it's a quite indirect version (being on different continents).

    Reality of current relationship is that Israel buys oil from Russia. Russia use sometimes Israel for pilgrimage or holiday. Both have more or less vision for Middle East, even for the local Israel-Palestinian conflict governments are agreeing with each other below the words.

    And geographically neither is there any connection.

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  233. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    F-16I planes located in the Negev desert. I double check now – they are flying from these three airbases: Hatzerim airbase, Ramon Airbase and Nevatim airbase.
     
    If it is true and there are only 3-4 airbases, then I cannot understand why Karlin is so chickenshit about military confrontation with Israel? Entire Israeli airforce could be wiped out with limited number of precision strikes. It doesn't matter if they have hundreds of planes including F35 and their pilots are best in the world: we only need to take out three airfields and that's it, they cannot fly.

    Am I the only one who finds Karlin's reverence to Israel disturbing?

    If it is true and there are only 3-4 airbases, then I cannot understand why Karlin is so chickenshit about military confrontation with Israel? Entire Israeli airforce could be wiped out with limited number of precision strikes. It doesn’t matter if they have hundreds of planes including F35 and their pilots are best in the world: we only need to take out three airfields and that’s it, they cannot fly.

    I mean about the F-16I.

    So it’s known planes are F-16s.

    For ground operation, they will use presumably F-16I. These are the ones with local avionics, which they would use for ground attacks.

    There are 100 F-16Is, and these are located at these three airbases.

    There are around 230 F-16s in Israel

    Overall airbases are more distributed. (but the main in the desert in the South).

    -

    In terms of hypothetical Russia-Israel war, two airforces are probably around the same level in terms of fighter jets.

    But the airbases are out of operating range from each other for fighter aircraft. While long-range bombers would be shot down by fighter jets.

    So any military conflict, would only involve firing missiles. In missile conflict (assuming no nuclear weapons), Israel is more vulnerable geographically, but might have more advanced air-defense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Israeli air-defence is Iron Dome, which is only suitable for dealing with Grads and home-made Palestinian rockets, and they also have US-made Patriot, which is good for nothing. Israel is thus highly vulnerable to missiles. Bases are clustered in the South to protect them from Hezbollah, whom the Jews genuinely fear. Imagine how Russia would be feared if it started throwing it weight around.

    So any military conflict, would only involve firing missiles.
     
    First launch a massive missile attack to put Israeli airfields (temporarily) out of operation. Once Israelis are grounded, we fly in strategic bombers from Southern Russia, and DEMOLISH everything that wasn't bombed before. Israeli jets will all be destroyed in their hangars on the ground.

    S400, positioned in Syria's Daraa region will cover the entire territory of Israel and will pick off any stragglers. Hezbollah, Iranian participation is optional. :)
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  234. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. Hack
    Has i t ever occurred to you that a strike on Israel is paramount to being a strike on the US? I bet that Karlin has taken this into consideration.

    Ultimately Russia and Israel have nuclear weapons with ICBMs, with some second strike options. In Russia, much more second-strike capability, but it’s just decoration beyond basics with this.

    MAD is operating between them which would stop a serious conflict , as with America, France, UK, China, Pakistan, India, etc.

    But probability of war between Israel and Russia is 0 with current governments. Even in WW3, I would doubt there would be conflict between these two.

    There’s no overlapping conflict of interest. Only tensions are based in which country is allied with which other country, and who is using who for propaganda with difference audience demographics.

    Historically, especially in Europe, countries being allied with each other’s enemies can lead to war, but here it’s a quite indirect version (being on different continents).

    Reality of current relationship is that Israel buys oil from Russia. Russia use sometimes Israel for pilgrimage or holiday. Both have more or less vision for Middle East, even for the local Israel-Palestinian conflict governments are agreeing with each other below the words.

    And geographically neither is there any connection.

    Read More
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  235. Dmitry says:
    @Hyperborean
    Have you ever tasted Finnish chocolate? I am quite fond of Fazer chocolate in particular and Finnish sweets in general.

    I don’t remember any Finnish in particular. Are you from Finland?

    My experience with this Lithuanian chocolate so far is that it generally is not very sweet (personally I think this is quite good, or sign of civilization in chocolate).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    I don’t remember any Finnish in particular. Are you from Finland?
     
    I am half-Finnish. When I was living in Sweden I would occasionally get care packets with lots of sweets from my Finnish relatives and now whenever I have the chance during travels I will buy a lot of Finnish sweets.
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  236. @Dmitry

    If it is true and there are only 3-4 airbases, then I cannot understand why Karlin is so chickenshit about military confrontation with Israel? Entire Israeli airforce could be wiped out with limited number of precision strikes. It doesn’t matter if they have hundreds of planes including F35 and their pilots are best in the world: we only need to take out three airfields and that’s it, they cannot fly.
     
    I mean about the F-16I.

    So it's known planes are F-16s.

    For ground operation, they will use presumably F-16I. These are the ones with local avionics, which they would use for ground attacks.

    There are 100 F-16Is, and these are located at these three airbases.

    There are around 230 F-16s in Israel

    Overall airbases are more distributed. (but the main in the desert in the South).
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKIETw_W4AAyUU0.jpg


    -

    In terms of hypothetical Russia-Israel war, two airforces are probably around the same level in terms of fighter jets.

    But the airbases are out of operating range from each other for fighter aircraft. While long-range bombers would be shot down by fighter jets.

    So any military conflict, would only involve firing missiles. In missile conflict (assuming no nuclear weapons), Israel is more vulnerable geographically, but might have more advanced air-defense.

    Israeli air-defence is Iron Dome, which is only suitable for dealing with Grads and home-made Palestinian rockets, and they also have US-made Patriot, which is good for nothing. Israel is thus highly vulnerable to missiles. Bases are clustered in the South to protect them from Hezbollah, whom the Jews genuinely fear. Imagine how Russia would be feared if it started throwing it weight around.

    So any military conflict, would only involve firing missiles.

    First launch a massive missile attack to put Israeli airfields (temporarily) out of operation. Once Israelis are grounded, we fly in strategic bombers from Southern Russia, and DEMOLISH everything that wasn’t bombed before. Israeli jets will all be destroyed in their hangars on the ground.

    S400, positioned in Syria’s Daraa region will cover the entire territory of Israel and will pick off any stragglers. Hezbollah, Iranian participation is optional. :)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Is all of this really necessary? Your thuggish behavior is appalling. :-(
    , @Dmitry

    Israeli air-defence is Iron Dome, which is only suitable for dealing with Grads and home-made Palestinian
     
    Iron Dome for artillery rockets
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome

    There's David's Sling for tactical ballistic missiles
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David%27s_Sling

    Arrow 2 for medium ballistic missiles
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile)

    Arrow 3 for up to ICBMs.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3

    They invested more money (including America donations) into their anti-missile systems than any other country (whether they work or not has not been tested).

    By the way, considering range, it would only be possible to fire limited numbers (expensive if used without nuclear weapons) missiles to Israel - a lot less than Hezbollah, who fire artillery rockets.


    . Bases are clustered in the South to protect them from Hezbollah, whom the

     

    They were built decades before Hezbollah existed. Hezbollah was built by Iran in the last 1980s and 1990s. (With Hezbollah missile capacity developing in the 2000s).

    The airbases in the Negev were built from the 1950s. The reason for their position was that the main enemy of Israel was Egypt, so the airforce was mainly in the South.

    However, more intensively in rebuilt 1980s (after withdrawal from the Sinai).

    It seems some built as underground facilities, US army engineers during 1979-82.

    http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a271594.pdf


    First launch a massive missile attack to put Israeli airfields (temporarily) out of operation.

     

    Most of their airbases were rebuilt a few years ago to be resistant to missile strikes.

    I just search on search engine now though, and some the planes are still stored above ground (which could potentially be hit).

    The ICBMs and some airdefense systems like (Arrow 3) are installed in underground launch.

    I follow the stories, and think they invest much of their money in this topic (missile resistance), and more than any other country.


    we fly in strategic bombers

     

    And how would non-stealth bombers penetrate the airspace, if there are modern SAMs there and an organized radar? Bombers are the most easy targets to hit, and would be shot down in a few minutes.

    In Soviet times, the idea for penetrating airspace like America, was to fire standoff missiles with nuclear warheads, out of range of SAMs - but I don't believe this capacity is even developed currently, let alone with for non-nuclear warfare, for precise strikes inside a country.

    , @Dmitry

    S400, positioned in Syria’s Daraa region will cover the entire territory of Israel and will pick off any stragglers.
     
    S-400 only intercepts missiles landing near to it.

    It can't intercept missiles sent to a target thousands of kilometers away.

    I will add about missile trajectory. At this distance, the missile trajectory is ballistic.

    S-400 in Syria can only defend land in Syria (if it has anti-missile capacity, which is not its primary role). (It is not to defend land in other countries, it's only for defending a circle around where the system itself is).

    It provides a circle of defense of the land where the system itself located. It doesn't defend targets thousands of kilometers distance.

    However, it may be able to defend from tactical (shorter range) ballistic missiles which are landing close to it.

    S-400 is not primarily for missile interception, and it can't defend against ICBM.

    But it could defend against some kinds of tactical ballistic missiles in terminal phase, when they are landing within certain distance from it.

    -

    Here showing about terminal phase, which is a sphere relatively close to where the missile landing.


    https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1568494614000854-gr1.jpg

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  237. Mr. Hack says:
    @Felix Keverich
    Israeli air-defence is Iron Dome, which is only suitable for dealing with Grads and home-made Palestinian rockets, and they also have US-made Patriot, which is good for nothing. Israel is thus highly vulnerable to missiles. Bases are clustered in the South to protect them from Hezbollah, whom the Jews genuinely fear. Imagine how Russia would be feared if it started throwing it weight around.

    So any military conflict, would only involve firing missiles.
     
    First launch a massive missile attack to put Israeli airfields (temporarily) out of operation. Once Israelis are grounded, we fly in strategic bombers from Southern Russia, and DEMOLISH everything that wasn't bombed before. Israeli jets will all be destroyed in their hangars on the ground.

    S400, positioned in Syria's Daraa region will cover the entire territory of Israel and will pick off any stragglers. Hezbollah, Iranian participation is optional. :)

    Is all of this really necessary? Your thuggish behavior is appalling. :-(

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well Felix is an interesting discussion, allows us to be Admiral Martyanov for a few minutes.

    Obviously Admiral Martyanov will imagine with some magical secret weapon, which can do whatever he imagination projects. But the reality of recent years is far more limited, and Russian capacity behind a few other countries in areas like missile defense.

    Power projection even in Syria at the moment is extremely weak, and required shipping planes to a vulnerable base. The idea of being able to destroy fortified Israeli airbases, from this distance, is pure fantasy.

    It would however, be possible with nuclear weapons.

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  238. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich
    Israeli air-defence is Iron Dome, which is only suitable for dealing with Grads and home-made Palestinian rockets, and they also have US-made Patriot, which is good for nothing. Israel is thus highly vulnerable to missiles. Bases are clustered in the South to protect them from Hezbollah, whom the Jews genuinely fear. Imagine how Russia would be feared if it started throwing it weight around.

    So any military conflict, would only involve firing missiles.
     
    First launch a massive missile attack to put Israeli airfields (temporarily) out of operation. Once Israelis are grounded, we fly in strategic bombers from Southern Russia, and DEMOLISH everything that wasn't bombed before. Israeli jets will all be destroyed in their hangars on the ground.

    S400, positioned in Syria's Daraa region will cover the entire territory of Israel and will pick off any stragglers. Hezbollah, Iranian participation is optional. :)

    Israeli air-defence is Iron Dome, which is only suitable for dealing with Grads and home-made Palestinian

    Iron Dome for artillery rockets

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome

    There’s David’s Sling for tactical ballistic missiles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David%27s_Sling

    Arrow 2 for medium ballistic missiles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(Israeli_missile)

    Arrow 3 for up to ICBMs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3

    They invested more money (including America donations) into their anti-missile systems than any other country (whether they work or not has not been tested).

    By the way, considering range, it would only be possible to fire limited numbers (expensive if used without nuclear weapons) missiles to Israel – a lot less than Hezbollah, who fire artillery rockets.

    . Bases are clustered in the South to protect them from Hezbollah, whom the

    They were built decades before Hezbollah existed. Hezbollah was built by Iran in the last 1980s and 1990s. (With Hezbollah missile capacity developing in the 2000s).

    The airbases in the Negev were built from the 1950s. The reason for their position was that the main enemy of Israel was Egypt, so the airforce was mainly in the South.

    However, more intensively in rebuilt 1980s (after withdrawal from the Sinai).

    It seems some built as underground facilities, US army engineers during 1979-82.

    http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a271594.pdf

    First launch a massive missile attack to put Israeli airfields (temporarily) out of operation.

    Most of their airbases were rebuilt a few years ago to be resistant to missile strikes.

    I just search on search engine now though, and some the planes are still stored above ground (which could potentially be hit).

    The ICBMs and some airdefense systems like (Arrow 3) are installed in underground launch.

    I follow the stories, and think they invest much of their money in this topic (missile resistance), and more than any other country.

    we fly in strategic bombers

    And how would non-stealth bombers penetrate the airspace, if there are modern SAMs there and an organized radar? Bombers are the most easy targets to hit, and would be shot down in a few minutes.

    In Soviet times, the idea for penetrating airspace like America, was to fire standoff missiles with nuclear warheads, out of range of SAMs – but I don’t believe this capacity is even developed currently, let alone with for non-nuclear warfare, for precise strikes inside a country.

    Read More
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  239. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. Hack
    Is all of this really necessary? Your thuggish behavior is appalling. :-(

    Well Felix is an interesting discussion, allows us to be Admiral Martyanov for a few minutes.

    Obviously Admiral Martyanov will imagine with some magical secret weapon, which can do whatever he imagination projects. But the reality of recent years is far more limited, and Russian capacity behind a few other countries in areas like missile defense.

    Power projection even in Syria at the moment is extremely weak, and required shipping planes to a vulnerable base. The idea of being able to destroy fortified Israeli airbases, from this distance, is pure fantasy.

    It would however, be possible with nuclear weapons.

    Read More
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  240. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich
    Israeli air-defence is Iron Dome, which is only suitable for dealing with Grads and home-made Palestinian rockets, and they also have US-made Patriot, which is good for nothing. Israel is thus highly vulnerable to missiles. Bases are clustered in the South to protect them from Hezbollah, whom the Jews genuinely fear. Imagine how Russia would be feared if it started throwing it weight around.

    So any military conflict, would only involve firing missiles.
     
    First launch a massive missile attack to put Israeli airfields (temporarily) out of operation. Once Israelis are grounded, we fly in strategic bombers from Southern Russia, and DEMOLISH everything that wasn't bombed before. Israeli jets will all be destroyed in their hangars on the ground.

    S400, positioned in Syria's Daraa region will cover the entire territory of Israel and will pick off any stragglers. Hezbollah, Iranian participation is optional. :)

    S400, positioned in Syria’s Daraa region will cover the entire territory of Israel and will pick off any stragglers.

    S-400 only intercepts missiles landing near to it.

    It can’t intercept missiles sent to a target thousands of kilometers away.

    I will add about missile trajectory. At this distance, the missile trajectory is ballistic.

    S-400 in Syria can only defend land in Syria (if it has anti-missile capacity, which is not its primary role). (It is not to defend land in other countries, it’s only for defending a circle around where the system itself is).

    It provides a circle of defense of the land where the system itself located. It doesn’t defend targets thousands of kilometers distance.

    However, it may be able to defend from tactical (shorter range) ballistic missiles which are landing close to it.

    S-400 is not primarily for missile interception, and it can’t defend against ICBM.

    But it could defend against some kinds of tactical ballistic missiles in terminal phase, when they are landing within certain distance from it.

    -

    Here showing about terminal phase, which is a sphere relatively close to where the missile landing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    A few points:

    1. My working assumption here is that American missile defence technology is garbage. After all it proved itself to be garbage every time it was employed.

    2. Israeli SAMs and radars will be priority targets for the initial missile attack. Israelis cannot defend them. Israeli defences are designed to protect from home-made Palestinian rockets, not Iskanders or Kalibers.

    3. We will not be launching ICBMs from Russian territory (LOL). Our missiles will be based in Southern Syria.

    4. S400 + multiple Pantsyrs will form a Russian air-defence bubble in Southern Syria. Pantsyrs will protect from incoming Israeli missiles. S400 will handle Israeli aircraft that might be able to get in the air.

    5. Russia has bombs that can penetrate underground bunkers. The real challenge is putting the airfield out of operation, everything that comes afterwards is like shooting fish in the barrel.

    Power projection even in Syria at the moment is extremely weak, and required shipping planes to a vulnerable base. The idea of being able to destroy fortified Israeli airbases, from this distance, is pure fantasy.
     

    1. Khmeimim is irrelevant to my strategy. We could use it as a logistics hub in preparation for war, but Khmeimim and its planes will have no role in the actual battle. Launch platforms for missiles will be based in Southern Syria. They will be protected by an air-defence "bubble". Bombers will fly from Southern Russia.

    2. Cratering the runway doesn't seem fantastical to me. Is there such a thing as indestructible runway? Get real. Once the runway is damaged, that means planes can't take off. They are defenseless and doomed.

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  241. @Dmitry

    S400, positioned in Syria’s Daraa region will cover the entire territory of Israel and will pick off any stragglers.
     
    S-400 only intercepts missiles landing near to it.

    It can't intercept missiles sent to a target thousands of kilometers away.

    I will add about missile trajectory. At this distance, the missile trajectory is ballistic.

    S-400 in Syria can only defend land in Syria (if it has anti-missile capacity, which is not its primary role). (It is not to defend land in other countries, it's only for defending a circle around where the system itself is).

    It provides a circle of defense of the land where the system itself located. It doesn't defend targets thousands of kilometers distance.

    However, it may be able to defend from tactical (shorter range) ballistic missiles which are landing close to it.

    S-400 is not primarily for missile interception, and it can't defend against ICBM.

    But it could defend against some kinds of tactical ballistic missiles in terminal phase, when they are landing within certain distance from it.

    -

    Here showing about terminal phase, which is a sphere relatively close to where the missile landing.


    https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1568494614000854-gr1.jpg

    A few points:

    1. My working assumption here is that American missile defence technology is garbage. After all it proved itself to be garbage every time it was employed.

    2. Israeli SAMs and radars will be priority targets for the initial missile attack. Israelis cannot defend them. Israeli defences are designed to protect from home-made Palestinian rockets, not Iskanders or Kalibers.

    3. We will not be launching ICBMs from Russian territory (LOL). Our missiles will be based in Southern Syria.

    4. S400 + multiple Pantsyrs will form a Russian air-defence bubble in Southern Syria. Pantsyrs will protect from incoming Israeli missiles. S400 will handle Israeli aircraft that might be able to get in the air.

    5. Russia has bombs that can penetrate underground bunkers. The real challenge is putting the airfield out of operation, everything that comes afterwards is like shooting fish in the barrel.

    Power projection even in Syria at the moment is extremely weak, and required shipping planes to a vulnerable base. The idea of being able to destroy fortified Israeli airbases, from this distance, is pure fantasy.

    1. Khmeimim is irrelevant to my strategy. We could use it as a logistics hub in preparation for war, but Khmeimim and its planes will have no role in the actual battle. Launch platforms for missiles will be based in Southern Syria. They will be protected by an air-defence “bubble”. Bombers will fly from Southern Russia.

    2. Cratering the runway doesn’t seem fantastical to me. Is there such a thing as indestructible runway? Get real. Once the runway is damaged, that means planes can’t take off. They are defenseless and doomed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Israeli defences are designed to protect from home-made Palestinian rockets, not Iskanders or Kalibers
     
    Iskander is not in range directl. (I see below you suggest shipping them to Syria.)

    Also I assume their SAM will be designed for this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David%27s_Sling


    Kalibers would be fired from ships, which would require navy in East Mediterranean. Here I would have to agree with Karlin. Presence of ships in the region is dependent on good will, and they would be sunk in any war, at great disadvantage of being in an isolated, foreign sea.

    The navy is like fish in a barrel, when it is isolated in Mediterranean, and only accessible through the Bosporus.

    Also the number of missiles launched from a ship is not very significantly damaging (as we know from when the US fires some dozens of Tomahawk missiles to destroy a few buildings).


    Our missiles will be based in Southern Syria.
     
    But then numbers will be small or constrained, as logistics in somewhere thousands of kilometers from home.

    It would only be symbolic strikes. Unless there is some logistical ability to ship thousands of missiles and equally a surveillance ability to hit the relevant targets.


    Russian air-defence bubble in Southern Syria. Pantsyrs will protect from incoming

     

    I feel sceptical here - Pantsyr was destroyed from the air by Israel, on video only a few months ago.

    Due to distances, this bubble would not last, as it is within a few hundred kilometers from their entire army, while being thousands of kilometers from home. It would have hundreds of planes against it, and artillery missiles fired at it

    As for abilities of Pantsyr.

    My general assumption by the way is opposite of yours above. I try assume Western weapons are on average, ahead in quality. It's a fair inference when you consider where the technology leader are in the world, and the greater financial investment in the weapon systems since the end of Soviet Union.

    Pantsir was already destroyed on video, I would doubt it can protect itself from planes, except when in an integrated defense.

    In Russia, Pantsir will be part of very heavy, integrated fortification. But while part of expeditionary forces, it becomes far more vulnerable and isolated.


    Russia has bombs that can penetrate underground bunkers.

     

    There are bunker-busting bombs. But these are not missiles. You have to fly the bombers over and drop the bombs. Bombers would be shot down by modern air-defense.

    This is why in Soviet strategy, the plan was to fire stand-off, nuclear weapons, from outside the range of the air-defenses.

    And main strategy for peer-opponents, is always nuclear weapons, particularly ICBMs


    The real challenge is putting the airfield out of operation, everything that comes afterwards is like shooting fish in the barrel.

     

    Has SEAD operations ever been conducted by firing some missiles?

    I imagine you need all assets in field to do SEAD operations, including decoys and over-powering force.

    The decoys are required in order to find out ("smell") where the enemy radars are located.

    In this case, it would be SEAD against country which spends probably more on SAMs and bunkers than any apart from America.


    Khmeimim is irrelevant to my strategy. We could use it as a logistics hub in preparation for war,

     

    It showed how much effort it is, even to run a few small-scale bombings of undefended jihadists.

    It required months of preparation, and consent of neighboring countries not to destroy it. And yet it can only project very minor bombing missions as occurs in Syria.

    I'm also envisioning send Admiral Kuznetsov again to East Mediterranean? Admiral Kuznetsov holds ten planes last time, two of which were lost for technical reasons if I recall.

    It required two weeks to get there and the whole world watching it. It would be sunk by submarines in the before it gets even near.


    its planes will have no role in the actual battle. Launch platforms for missiles will be based in Southern Syria.

     

    Because distance is everything in war.

    This is why Hezbollah would have far more firepower against Israel, than non-nuclear missiles of the Russian Federation. That's why Iran build Hezbollah, as a local force to fire missiles.

    Only a very small amount of forces could be projected the distance to Israel. (You envisage it being slowly shipped through the Bosphorus).

    Meanwhile, Israel has all forces directly in range. Hundreds of planes and missiles are directly available. So base in Syria would be target of their entire firepower.

    Any assets, including ships, would be within target of Israel's missiles.


    Cratering the runway doesn’t seem fantastical to me. Is there such a thing as indestructible runway? Get real. Once the runway is damaged, that means planes can’t take off.

     

    It's true. But their strategy is also to takeoff from highways.

    It's called "highway strips". In Israel, for example, highway 4 also has an official airport code (it's designed for military planes takeoff from).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_4_(Israel)


    Once the runway is damaged, that means planes can’t take off. They are defenseless and doomed.

     

    There are all the missile forces and naval forces.

    Even the missiles forces are getting large.
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5096287,00.html

    -

    The situation with Israel, is a very large conventional military, with all kinds of capacities usually for major powers.

    Let's say we want to fight Israel? (I support Israel, but imagine I do not) The correct strategy is to avoid conventional way, and to focus on unconventional guerilla war against Israel (as Iran does), or to focus on economic, PR and political war (as the Muslim world does).

    Israel's very vulnerable against terrorists and against guerrilla forces. But in terms of missiles, SAMs, planes, submarines, technology, etc, it's one of the most fortified countries.

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  242. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich
    A few points:

    1. My working assumption here is that American missile defence technology is garbage. After all it proved itself to be garbage every time it was employed.

    2. Israeli SAMs and radars will be priority targets for the initial missile attack. Israelis cannot defend them. Israeli defences are designed to protect from home-made Palestinian rockets, not Iskanders or Kalibers.

    3. We will not be launching ICBMs from Russian territory (LOL). Our missiles will be based in Southern Syria.

    4. S400 + multiple Pantsyrs will form a Russian air-defence bubble in Southern Syria. Pantsyrs will protect from incoming Israeli missiles. S400 will handle Israeli aircraft that might be able to get in the air.

    5. Russia has bombs that can penetrate underground bunkers. The real challenge is putting the airfield out of operation, everything that comes afterwards is like shooting fish in the barrel.

    Power projection even in Syria at the moment is extremely weak, and required shipping planes to a vulnerable base. The idea of being able to destroy fortified Israeli airbases, from this distance, is pure fantasy.
     

    1. Khmeimim is irrelevant to my strategy. We could use it as a logistics hub in preparation for war, but Khmeimim and its planes will have no role in the actual battle. Launch platforms for missiles will be based in Southern Syria. They will be protected by an air-defence "bubble". Bombers will fly from Southern Russia.

    2. Cratering the runway doesn't seem fantastical to me. Is there such a thing as indestructible runway? Get real. Once the runway is damaged, that means planes can't take off. They are defenseless and doomed.

    Israeli defences are designed to protect from home-made Palestinian rockets, not Iskanders or Kalibers

    Iskander is not in range directl. (I see below you suggest shipping them to Syria.)

    Also I assume their SAM will be designed for this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David%27s_Sling

    Kalibers would be fired from ships, which would require navy in East Mediterranean. Here I would have to agree with Karlin. Presence of ships in the region is dependent on good will, and they would be sunk in any war, at great disadvantage of being in an isolated, foreign sea.

    The navy is like fish in a barrel, when it is isolated in Mediterranean, and only accessible through the Bosporus.

    Also the number of missiles launched from a ship is not very significantly damaging (as we know from when the US fires some dozens of Tomahawk missiles to destroy a few buildings).

    Our missiles will be based in Southern Syria.

    But then numbers will be small or constrained, as logistics in somewhere thousands of kilometers from home.

    It would only be symbolic strikes. Unless there is some logistical ability to ship thousands of missiles and equally a surveillance ability to hit the relevant targets.

    Russian air-defence bubble in Southern Syria. Pantsyrs will protect from incoming

    I feel sceptical here – Pantsyr was destroyed from the air by Israel, on video only a few months ago.

    Due to distances, this bubble would not last, as it is within a few hundred kilometers from their entire army, while being thousands of kilometers from home. It would have hundreds of planes against it, and artillery missiles fired at it

    As for abilities of Pantsyr.

    My general assumption by the way is opposite of yours above. I try assume Western weapons are on average, ahead in quality. It’s a fair inference when you consider where the technology leader are in the world, and the greater financial investment in the weapon systems since the end of Soviet Union.

    Pantsir was already destroyed on video, I would doubt it can protect itself from planes, except when in an integrated defense.

    In Russia, Pantsir will be part of very heavy, integrated fortification. But while part of expeditionary forces, it becomes far more vulnerable and isolated.

    Russia has bombs that can penetrate underground bunkers.

    There are bunker-busting bombs. But these are not missiles. You have to fly the bombers over and drop the bombs. Bombers would be shot down by modern air-defense.

    This is why in Soviet strategy, the plan was to fire stand-off, nuclear weapons, from outside the range of the air-defenses.

    And main strategy for peer-opponents, is always nuclear weapons, particularly ICBMs

    The real challenge is putting the airfield out of operation, everything that comes afterwards is like shooting fish in the barrel.

    Has SEAD operations ever been conducted by firing some missiles?

    I imagine you need all assets in field to do SEAD operations, including decoys and over-powering force.

    The decoys are required in order to find out (“smell”) where the enemy radars are located.

    In this case, it would be SEAD against country which spends probably more on SAMs and bunkers than any apart from America.

    Khmeimim is irrelevant to my strategy. We could use it as a logistics hub in preparation for war,

    It showed how much effort it is, even to run a few small-scale bombings of undefended jihadists.

    It required months of preparation, and consent of neighboring countries not to destroy it. And yet it can only project very minor bombing missions as occurs in Syria.

    I’m also envisioning send Admiral Kuznetsov again to East Mediterranean? Admiral Kuznetsov holds ten planes last time, two of which were lost for technical reasons if I recall.

    It required two weeks to get there and the whole world watching it. It would be sunk by submarines in the before it gets even near.

    its planes will have no role in the actual battle. Launch platforms for missiles will be based in Southern Syria.

    Because distance is everything in war.

    This is why Hezbollah would have far more firepower against Israel, than non-nuclear missiles of the Russian Federation. That’s why Iran build Hezbollah, as a local force to fire missiles.

    Only a very small amount of forces could be projected the distance to Israel. (You envisage it being slowly shipped through the Bosphorus).

    Meanwhile, Israel has all forces directly in range. Hundreds of planes and missiles are directly available. So base in Syria would be target of their entire firepower.

    Any assets, including ships, would be within target of Israel’s missiles.

    Cratering the runway doesn’t seem fantastical to me. Is there such a thing as indestructible runway? Get real. Once the runway is damaged, that means planes can’t take off.

    It’s true. But their strategy is also to takeoff from highways.

    It’s called “highway strips”. In Israel, for example, highway 4 also has an official airport code (it’s designed for military planes takeoff from).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_4_(Israel)

    Once the runway is damaged, that means planes can’t take off. They are defenseless and doomed.

    There are all the missile forces and naval forces.

    Even the missiles forces are getting large.

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5096287,00.html

    -

    The situation with Israel, is a very large conventional military, with all kinds of capacities usually for major powers.

    Let’s say we want to fight Israel? (I support Israel, but imagine I do not) The correct strategy is to avoid conventional way, and to focus on unconventional guerilla war against Israel (as Iran does), or to focus on economic, PR and political war (as the Muslim world does).

    Israel’s very vulnerable against terrorists and against guerrilla forces. But in terms of missiles, SAMs, planes, submarines, technology, etc, it’s one of the most fortified countries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    Iskander is not in range directl. (I see below you suggest shipping them to Syria.)
     
    Its alleged range is 500km. Enough to cover all of Israel.

    Also I assume their SAM will be designed for this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David%27s_Sling
     

    Israel & Raytheon can design whatever they want. Their tech won't work. Raytheon designed Patriot, which doesn't work.

    But then numbers will be small or constrained, as logistics in somewhere thousands of kilometers from home.

    It would only be symbolic strikes. Unless there is some logistical ability to ship thousands of missiles and equally a surveillance ability to hit the relevant targets.
     

    Here is a novel, ground-breaking idea: how about we just keep on shipping until we have enough missiles in Syria? What's so difficult about this? Do you think this will bankrupt Russia? I don't think so.

    Kalibers would be fired from ships, which would require navy in East Mediterranean. Here I would have to agree with Karlin. Presence of ships in the region is dependent on good will, and they would be sunk in any war, at great disadvantage of being in an isolated, foreign sea.
     
    Land-based Kaliber. It's that simple
    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7666/russia-breaks-arms-control-treaty-by-deploying-land-based-cruise-missiles

    I could go on, but your post is a list of spurious reasons as to why we're better off leaving Israel alone.
    “Pantsyr sucks and won’t work, but some Israeli SAM codeveloped with Raytheon will certainly work”. LOL
    Unsurprising coming from a self-confessed Zionist, but can't you at least put more effort into it?

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  243. @Dmitry

    Israeli defences are designed to protect from home-made Palestinian rockets, not Iskanders or Kalibers
     
    Iskander is not in range directl. (I see below you suggest shipping them to Syria.)

    Also I assume their SAM will be designed for this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David%27s_Sling


    Kalibers would be fired from ships, which would require navy in East Mediterranean. Here I would have to agree with Karlin. Presence of ships in the region is dependent on good will, and they would be sunk in any war, at great disadvantage of being in an isolated, foreign sea.

    The navy is like fish in a barrel, when it is isolated in Mediterranean, and only accessible through the Bosporus.

    Also the number of missiles launched from a ship is not very significantly damaging (as we know from when the US fires some dozens of Tomahawk missiles to destroy a few buildings).


    Our missiles will be based in Southern Syria.
     
    But then numbers will be small or constrained, as logistics in somewhere thousands of kilometers from home.

    It would only be symbolic strikes. Unless there is some logistical ability to ship thousands of missiles and equally a surveillance ability to hit the relevant targets.


    Russian air-defence bubble in Southern Syria. Pantsyrs will protect from incoming

     

    I feel sceptical here - Pantsyr was destroyed from the air by Israel, on video only a few months ago.

    Due to distances, this bubble would not last, as it is within a few hundred kilometers from their entire army, while being thousands of kilometers from home. It would have hundreds of planes against it, and artillery missiles fired at it

    As for abilities of Pantsyr.

    My general assumption by the way is opposite of yours above. I try assume Western weapons are on average, ahead in quality. It's a fair inference when you consider where the technology leader are in the world, and the greater financial investment in the weapon systems since the end of Soviet Union.

    Pantsir was already destroyed on video, I would doubt it can protect itself from planes, except when in an integrated defense.

    In Russia, Pantsir will be part of very heavy, integrated fortification. But while part of expeditionary forces, it becomes far more vulnerable and isolated.


    Russia has bombs that can penetrate underground bunkers.

     

    There are bunker-busting bombs. But these are not missiles. You have to fly the bombers over and drop the bombs. Bombers would be shot down by modern air-defense.

    This is why in Soviet strategy, the plan was to fire stand-off, nuclear weapons, from outside the range of the air-defenses.

    And main strategy for peer-opponents, is always nuclear weapons, particularly ICBMs


    The real challenge is putting the airfield out of operation, everything that comes afterwards is like shooting fish in the barrel.

     

    Has SEAD operations ever been conducted by firing some missiles?

    I imagine you need all assets in field to do SEAD operations, including decoys and over-powering force.

    The decoys are required in order to find out ("smell") where the enemy radars are located.

    In this case, it would be SEAD against country which spends probably more on SAMs and bunkers than any apart from America.


    Khmeimim is irrelevant to my strategy. We could use it as a logistics hub in preparation for war,

     

    It showed how much effort it is, even to run a few small-scale bombings of undefended jihadists.

    It required months of preparation, and consent of neighboring countries not to destroy it. And yet it can only project very minor bombing missions as occurs in Syria.

    I'm also envisioning send Admiral Kuznetsov again to East Mediterranean? Admiral Kuznetsov holds ten planes last time, two of which were lost for technical reasons if I recall.

    It required two weeks to get there and the whole world watching it. It would be sunk by submarines in the before it gets even near.


    its planes will have no role in the actual battle. Launch platforms for missiles will be based in Southern Syria.

     

    Because distance is everything in war.

    This is why Hezbollah would have far more firepower against Israel, than non-nuclear missiles of the Russian Federation. That's why Iran build Hezbollah, as a local force to fire missiles.

    Only a very small amount of forces could be projected the distance to Israel. (You envisage it being slowly shipped through the Bosphorus).

    Meanwhile, Israel has all forces directly in range. Hundreds of planes and missiles are directly available. So base in Syria would be target of their entire firepower.

    Any assets, including ships, would be within target of Israel's missiles.


    Cratering the runway doesn’t seem fantastical to me. Is there such a thing as indestructible runway? Get real. Once the runway is damaged, that means planes can’t take off.

     

    It's true. But their strategy is also to takeoff from highways.

    It's called "highway strips". In Israel, for example, highway 4 also has an official airport code (it's designed for military planes takeoff from).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_4_(Israel)


    Once the runway is damaged, that means planes can’t take off. They are defenseless and doomed.

     

    There are all the missile forces and naval forces.

    Even the missiles forces are getting large.
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5096287,00.html

    -

    The situation with Israel, is a very large conventional military, with all kinds of capacities usually for major powers.

    Let's say we want to fight Israel? (I support Israel, but imagine I do not) The correct strategy is to avoid conventional way, and to focus on unconventional guerilla war against Israel (as Iran does), or to focus on economic, PR and political war (as the Muslim world does).

    Israel's very vulnerable against terrorists and against guerrilla forces. But in terms of missiles, SAMs, planes, submarines, technology, etc, it's one of the most fortified countries.

    Iskander is not in range directl. (I see below you suggest shipping them to Syria.)

    Its alleged range is 500km. Enough to cover all of Israel.

    Also I assume their SAM will be designed for this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David%27s_Sling

    Israel & Raytheon can design whatever they want. Their tech won’t work. Raytheon designed Patriot, which doesn’t work.

    But then numbers will be small or constrained, as logistics in somewhere thousands of kilometers from home.

    It would only be symbolic strikes. Unless there is some logistical ability to ship thousands of missiles and equally a surveillance ability to hit the relevant targets.

    Here is a novel, ground-breaking idea: how about we just keep on shipping until we have enough missiles in Syria? What’s so difficult about this? Do you think this will bankrupt Russia? I don’t think so.

    Kalibers would be fired from ships, which would require navy in East Mediterranean. Here I would have to agree with Karlin. Presence of ships in the region is dependent on good will, and they would be sunk in any war, at great disadvantage of being in an isolated, foreign sea.

    Land-based Kaliber. It’s that simple

    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7666/russia-breaks-arms-control-treaty-by-deploying-land-based-cruise-missiles

    I could go on, but your post is a list of spurious reasons as to why we’re better off leaving Israel alone.
    “Pantsyr sucks and won’t work, but some Israeli SAM codeveloped with Raytheon will certainly work”. LOL
    Unsurprising coming from a self-confessed Zionist, but can’t you at least put more effort into it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Well Felix, your argument now some silly rhetoric and womanish stuff about my motives.

    Neither of us have any role in any decision making, and are we are military amateurs chatting for entertainment. Motive is irrelevant for purposes of internet chatting - our discussion is as relevant to what will ever happen as discussing computer games.

    If your idea was correct, I would find it interesting to read and improve military knowledge. Likewise, if it is not correct, you should find that interesting.

    The problem is not motives, but I thought your plan would fail. If you have a good plan, I would say "cool dude, good plan".

    Distance is everything in war. I follow military operation in Syria, and how much preparation there was, how much slow transport through the bospherous. End result, quite minor power projection and bombings that occur there, and planes even shot down by Turkey.

    Projecting military thousands of kilometers away is extremely difficult. It's much easier to fire an ICBM at this distance - but then for that to do anything, it's better if it is a nuclear warhead (which is what the missiles were designed for).

    This is how people thought during the Cold War, and it has not suddenly changed.


    “Pantsyr sucks and won’t work, but some Israeli SAM codeveloped with Raytheon will certainly work”. LOL
    Unsurprising coming from a self-confessed Zionist, but can’t you at least put more effort into it?

     

    It was destroyed on video a few months ago when Syrians were driving it. So I don't feel confident system, deployed distant from main fortification in a foreign country, would defend against 1000s of missiles and a huge air force closeby.

    There's some funny asymmetry here. You assume expeditionary force of Pantsyr would be successful missile defense, while you assume national defense system (with far larger equipment) of your opponent would be unsuccessful.

    If we design this as a epistemically useful war game, we would assume either both systems work as much as advertised, or both don't work.

    Assuming one side works, while the other doesn't - it's more like religious belief.


    Land-based Kaliber. It’s that simple

     

    Cruise missiles fired from Southern Russia?

    Cruise missile from this distance, would be lowest speed kind of missile, and easiest to shootdown.

    It's better to fire ballistic missiles, such as ICBMs (with conventional warhead I assume).

    Cruises missiles ultimately could do some damage, and some will get through even if we assume airdefense works. The question whether some cruise missiles, can knock out an airforce and largest air defense system.

    We know what happens, even when America fires 100 tomahawk cruise missiles in Syria. Not necessarily very much.

    The plan against peer-opponent, would be much more effective using ICBMs.

    And again - with nuclear warheads. You can't re-invent the wheel of the Cold War.


    Its alleged range is 500km. Enough to cover all of Israel.

     

    From Syria. Each shipped through the Bosphorus.

    It's two things the plan needs these surface-to-surface missiles for: to do SEAD and also to destroy airbases.

    And your plan is without using nuclear weapons, but just conventional missiles.

    1. Can SEAD (of major country) from large distance, be done with only surface-to-surface, conventional missile fire? Is there any historical precedent for this?

    2. Can destruction of airbases be done only with surface-to-surface missile fire? Is there historicaly precedent for this?

    Fortified airbase, and where planes can also use runways.

    There are improvements in surface-to-surface missiles, now they are GPS guided, and can hit targets with accuracy. But how would you know where to target the SAM systems, if you don't use normal SEAD tactics, with decoys (to smell the radars) and planes?


    Their tech won’t work. Raytheon designed Patriot, which doesn’t work.

     

    This is not a great reasoning.

    American Patriot was successful for its application (which is to shootdown planes). It was not designed to shootdown missiles. American politicians and manufacturers lied to claim it would be suitable for that function, in a famous scandal.

    In this case, it was historically similar to S-300 and S-400, both of which primarily designed to shoot down planes, not missiles. The anti-missile aspect of the system is additional feature, rather than it's main design.

    Patriot missile system was 30 years ago, and billions of dollars of investment earlier.

    The question whether engineers working on the modern projects are serious, and why they would not be? Or is the project a full scam, and the flight tests falsified? .

    Also the assumption their technology doesn't work, while ours does. Because their universities are worse? There's less corruption? They don't know maths?

    Rationale view is to assume either both sides technology works, or neither does.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  244. LatW says:
    @Dmitry
    To be honest, I'm admiring some things about Baltic states, like their neoliberal economic philosophy. And also they are good in some areas like gun freedom law.

    I don't know if you eat Lithuanian chocolate in Latvia? So it's quite good quality (not making me feel sick like Ukrainian always does).

    This one on right is good. It's different packets of fruits which are covered in chocolate.

    Lol this one is "spanguoles" in Lithuanian language


    https://i.imgur.com/2nUYS5O.jpg?1

    To be honest, I’m admiring some things about Baltic states, like their neoliberal economic philosophy. And also they are good in some areas like gun freedom law.

    Well, I’m not really sure that the Baltic states are more “neoliberal” than other EE countries, certainly, many countries are neoliberal. The Baltic countries are certainly very free in some ways (some Western countries are overly micromanaged, regulated and then the countries in the east have problems with elections and the like). And when it comes to guns, one must have them – there are a lot of wild boar roaming around.

    I don’t know if you eat Lithuanian chocolate in Latvia?

    Always have, always will. :) Not just chocolate, but other stuff too – cheese, bred, beer, music, spas…

    I occasionally eat a Ukrainian candy called Romashka (Daisy), I quite like it.

    The candy that your folks brought is just chocolate covered cranberries (I suppose if you’re gonna eat sugar, at least get some vitamin C with it). I kind of agree with you that less sugar is a sign of quality, but how do you make a candy that’s both “guilt-free” (low sugar) and appetizing. So these North European berries are actually pretty good in a way that they are so sour that they balance out the sweetness of the chocolate (for instance, I’m sure Baltic and Russian grown cherries are quite sour compared to the ones grown in California, Washington state, etc). And, btw, you mentioned “Western standard” but I don’t really see why that has to be some kind of a benchmark – we should set our own standards, healthiness and originality trumps everything.

    Btw, here’s Latvian made gourmet chocolate (it’s pricey but you can just buy a few of them as a gift):

    https://www.nelleulla.com/lv-ru/assortiment/shokoladnye-plitki-s-yagodami-kholodnoi-sushki/#menu

    I like the pitch: “В них горит Северное сияние, строптивость и вдохновение. Они вышли из вечнозеленых лесов, где растут полные сил, кислосладкие ягоды.”

    I totally love it when they put a table in the middle of the forest and then set it up luxuriously.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    And, btw, you mentioned “Western standard” but I don’t really see why that
     
    Well it's a bad choice of words. Not English/American, which is not much better.

    But Swiss/French/Belgium/Italian is a higher standard - I think we all agree. Even for their bad and cheaper chocolates.

    Btw, here’s Latvian made gourmet chocolate (it’s pricey but you can just buy a few of them as a gift):

    https://www.nelleulla.com/lv-ru/assortiment/shokoladnye-plitki-s-yagodami-kholodnoi-sushki/#menu

    I like the pitch: “В них горит Северное сияние, строптивость и вдохновение. Они вышли из вечнозеленых лесов, где растут полные сил, кислосладкие ягоды.”

    I totally love it when they put a table
     
    This looks very similar to some of the Lithuanian stuff I have received. The frozen strawberries, covered with chocolate is cool.

    -

    So far, for sure, Lithuania chocolate is different style, and with less sugar. (Maybe they are the best chocolate making people in post-Soviet space).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  245. LatW says:
    @Hyperborean
    How mutually intelligible are Latvian and Lithuanians? Maybe you could translate the descriptions?

    How mutually intelligible are Latvian and Lithuanians?

    They’re not mutually intelligible, but there are quite a few similar / identical words, and when you dig a bit deeper you can see the similarities. It kind of intuitively feels close, it’s hard to explain. You pick up a lot of words from hanging out together as well.

    Read More
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  246. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Iskander is not in range directl. (I see below you suggest shipping them to Syria.)
     
    Its alleged range is 500km. Enough to cover all of Israel.

    Also I assume their SAM will be designed for this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David%27s_Sling
     

    Israel & Raytheon can design whatever they want. Their tech won't work. Raytheon designed Patriot, which doesn't work.

    But then numbers will be small or constrained, as logistics in somewhere thousands of kilometers from home.

    It would only be symbolic strikes. Unless there is some logistical ability to ship thousands of missiles and equally a surveillance ability to hit the relevant targets.
     

    Here is a novel, ground-breaking idea: how about we just keep on shipping until we have enough missiles in Syria? What's so difficult about this? Do you think this will bankrupt Russia? I don't think so.

    Kalibers would be fired from ships, which would require navy in East Mediterranean. Here I would have to agree with Karlin. Presence of ships in the region is dependent on good will, and they would be sunk in any war, at great disadvantage of being in an isolated, foreign sea.
     
    Land-based Kaliber. It's that simple
    http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7666/russia-breaks-arms-control-treaty-by-deploying-land-based-cruise-missiles

    I could go on, but your post is a list of spurious reasons as to why we're better off leaving Israel alone.
    “Pantsyr sucks and won’t work, but some Israeli SAM codeveloped with Raytheon will certainly work”. LOL
    Unsurprising coming from a self-confessed Zionist, but can't you at least put more effort into it?

    Well Felix, your argument now some silly rhetoric and womanish stuff about my motives.

    Neither of us have any role in any decision making, and are we are military amateurs chatting for entertainment. Motive is irrelevant for purposes of internet chatting – our discussion is as relevant to what will ever happen as discussing computer games.

    If your idea was correct, I would find it interesting to read and improve military knowledge. Likewise, if it is not correct, you should find that interesting.

    The problem is not motives, but I thought your plan would fail. If you have a good plan, I would say “cool dude, good plan”.

    Distance is everything in war. I follow military operation in Syria, and how much preparation there was, how much slow transport through the bospherous. End result, quite minor power projection and bombings that occur there, and planes even shot down by Turkey.

    Projecting military thousands of kilometers away is extremely difficult. It’s much easier to fire an ICBM at this distance – but then for that to do anything, it’s better if it is a nuclear warhead (which is what the missiles were designed for).

    This is how people thought during the Cold War, and it has not suddenly changed.

    “Pantsyr sucks and won’t work, but some Israeli SAM codeveloped with Raytheon will certainly work”. LOL
    Unsurprising coming from a self-confessed Zionist, but can’t you at least put more effort into it?

    It was destroyed on video a few months ago when Syrians were driving it. So I don’t feel confident system, deployed distant from main fortification in a foreign country, would defend against 1000s of missiles and a huge air force closeby.

    There’s some funny asymmetry here. You assume expeditionary force of Pantsyr would be successful missile defense, while you assume national defense system (with far larger equipment) of your opponent would be unsuccessful.

    If we design this as a epistemically useful war game, we would assume either both systems work as much as advertised, or both don’t work.

    Assuming one side works, while the other doesn’t – it’s more like religious belief.

    Land-based Kaliber. It’s that simple

    Cruise missiles fired from Southern Russia?

    Cruise missile from this distance, would be lowest speed kind of missile, and easiest to shootdown.

    It’s better to fire ballistic missiles, such as ICBMs (with conventional warhead I assume).

    Cruises missiles ultimately could do some damage, and some will get through even if we assume airdefense works. The question whether some cruise missiles, can knock out an airforce and largest air defense system.

    We know what happens, even when America fires 100 tomahawk cruise missiles in Syria. Not necessarily very much.

    The plan against peer-opponent, would be much more effective using ICBMs.

    And again – with nuclear warheads. You can’t re-invent the wheel of the Cold War.

    Its alleged range is 500km. Enough to cover all of Israel.

    From Syria. Each shipped through the Bosphorus.

    It’s two things the plan needs these surface-to-surface missiles for: to do SEAD and also to destroy airbases.

    And your plan is without using nuclear weapons, but just conventional missiles.

    1. Can SEAD (of major country) from large distance, be done with only surface-to-surface, conventional missile fire? Is there any historical precedent for this?

    2. Can destruction of airbases be done only with surface-to-surface missile fire? Is there historicaly precedent for this?

    Fortified airbase, and where planes can also use runways.

    There are improvements in surface-to-surface missiles, now they are GPS guided, and can hit targets with accuracy. But how would you know where to target the SAM systems, if you don’t use normal SEAD tactics, with decoys (to smell the radars) and planes?

    Their tech won’t work. Raytheon designed Patriot, which doesn’t work.

    This is not a great reasoning.

    American Patriot was successful for its application (which is to shootdown planes). It was not designed to shootdown missiles. American politicians and manufacturers lied to claim it would be suitable for that function, in a famous scandal.

    In this case, it was historically similar to S-300 and S-400, both of which primarily designed to shoot down planes, not missiles. The anti-missile aspect of the system is additional feature, rather than it’s main design.

    Patriot missile system was 30 years ago, and billions of dollars of investment earlier.

    The question whether engineers working on the modern projects are serious, and why they would not be? Or is the project a full scam, and the flight tests falsified? .

    Also the assumption their technology doesn’t work, while ours does. Because their universities are worse? There’s less corruption? They don’t know maths?

    Rationale view is to assume either both sides technology works, or neither does.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    Well Felix, your argument now some silly rhetoric and womanish stuff about my motives.
     
    You admitted to having pro-Israel bias in one of your previous comments - it is too late to retract now. ;)

    Cruise missiles fired from Southern Russia?

     

    No, what gave you that idea? All the missiles will be based in Syria. I don't know what the sufficient number is, but we'll just keep accumulating, until we have enough of them. Hezbollah was somehow able to stockpile over 100.000, now imagine if their missiles were remotely accurate?

    There’s some funny asymmetry here. You assume expeditionary force of Pantsyr would be successful missile defense, while you assume national defense system (with far larger equipment) of your opponent would be unsuccessful.
     
    Yes. Russia SAM tech is considered vastly superior to Western tech. Israeli missile defence had a horrible performance in a war with Hezbollah. Raytheon has been repeatedly humbled by Houti rebels. Collaboration of two losers cannot be a winner. Otherwise countries would be lining up to purchase "Arrow" instead of S400.


    Can SEAD (of major country) from large distance, be done with only surface-to-surface, conventional missile fire? Is there any historical precedent for this?
     
    Israel is not a major country. It does not have a lot of resources to invest in R&D. By and large they rely on US military technology. Now Americans never felt the need to seriously invest in air-defence, because they have the worlds most powerful airforce. Consequently American air-defence tech lagged behind Soviet tech. This continued after Cold War. USA has no real means to defend itself against the Russian missiles, which to them is a minor cause for concern. Still, USA greatly benefits from having a lot of strategic depth. Which Israel, being a very tiny country, doesn't have.
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  247. @Dmitry
    I don't remember any Finnish in particular. Are you from Finland?

    My experience with this Lithuanian chocolate so far is that it generally is not very sweet (personally I think this is quite good, or sign of civilization in chocolate).

    I don’t remember any Finnish in particular. Are you from Finland?

    I am half-Finnish. When I was living in Sweden I would occasionally get care packets with lots of sweets from my Finnish relatives and now whenever I have the chance during travels I will buy a lot of Finnish sweets.

    Read More
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  248. @Dmitry
    Well Felix, your argument now some silly rhetoric and womanish stuff about my motives.

    Neither of us have any role in any decision making, and are we are military amateurs chatting for entertainment. Motive is irrelevant for purposes of internet chatting - our discussion is as relevant to what will ever happen as discussing computer games.

    If your idea was correct, I would find it interesting to read and improve military knowledge. Likewise, if it is not correct, you should find that interesting.

    The problem is not motives, but I thought your plan would fail. If you have a good plan, I would say "cool dude, good plan".

    Distance is everything in war. I follow military operation in Syria, and how much preparation there was, how much slow transport through the bospherous. End result, quite minor power projection and bombings that occur there, and planes even shot down by Turkey.

    Projecting military thousands of kilometers away is extremely difficult. It's much easier to fire an ICBM at this distance - but then for that to do anything, it's better if it is a nuclear warhead (which is what the missiles were designed for).

    This is how people thought during the Cold War, and it has not suddenly changed.


    “Pantsyr sucks and won’t work, but some Israeli SAM codeveloped with Raytheon will certainly work”. LOL
    Unsurprising coming from a self-confessed Zionist, but can’t you at least put more effort into it?

     

    It was destroyed on video a few months ago when Syrians were driving it. So I don't feel confident system, deployed distant from main fortification in a foreign country, would defend against 1000s of missiles and a huge air force closeby.

    There's some funny asymmetry here. You assume expeditionary force of Pantsyr would be successful missile defense, while you assume national defense system (with far larger equipment) of your opponent would be unsuccessful.

    If we design this as a epistemically useful war game, we would assume either both systems work as much as advertised, or both don't work.

    Assuming one side works, while the other doesn't - it's more like religious belief.


    Land-based Kaliber. It’s that simple

     

    Cruise missiles fired from Southern Russia?

    Cruise missile from this distance, would be lowest speed kind of missile, and easiest to shootdown.

    It's better to fire ballistic missiles, such as ICBMs (with conventional warhead I assume).

    Cruises missiles ultimately could do some damage, and some will get through even if we assume airdefense works. The question whether some cruise missiles, can knock out an airforce and largest air defense system.

    We know what happens, even when America fires 100 tomahawk cruise missiles in Syria. Not necessarily very much.

    The plan against peer-opponent, would be much more effective using ICBMs.

    And again - with nuclear warheads. You can't re-invent the wheel of the Cold War.


    Its alleged range is 500km. Enough to cover all of Israel.

     

    From Syria. Each shipped through the Bosphorus.

    It's two things the plan needs these surface-to-surface missiles for: to do SEAD and also to destroy airbases.

    And your plan is without using nuclear weapons, but just conventional missiles.

    1. Can SEAD (of major country) from large distance, be done with only surface-to-surface, conventional missile fire? Is there any historical precedent for this?

    2. Can destruction of airbases be done only with surface-to-surface missile fire? Is there historicaly precedent for this?

    Fortified airbase, and where planes can also use runways.

    There are improvements in surface-to-surface missiles, now they are GPS guided, and can hit targets with accuracy. But how would you know where to target the SAM systems, if you don't use normal SEAD tactics, with decoys (to smell the radars) and planes?


    Their tech won’t work. Raytheon designed Patriot, which doesn’t work.

     

    This is not a great reasoning.

    American Patriot was successful for its application (which is to shootdown planes). It was not designed to shootdown missiles. American politicians and manufacturers lied to claim it would be suitable for that function, in a famous scandal.

    In this case, it was historically similar to S-300 and S-400, both of which primarily designed to shoot down planes, not missiles. The anti-missile aspect of the system is additional feature, rather than it's main design.

    Patriot missile system was 30 years ago, and billions of dollars of investment earlier.

    The question whether engineers working on the modern projects are serious, and why they would not be? Or is the project a full scam, and the flight tests falsified? .

    Also the assumption their technology doesn't work, while ours does. Because their universities are worse? There's less corruption? They don't know maths?

    Rationale view is to assume either both sides technology works, or neither does.

    Well Felix, your argument now some silly rhetoric and womanish stuff about my motives.

    You admitted to having pro-Israel bias in one of your previous comments – it is too late to retract now. ;)

    Cruise missiles fired from Southern Russia?

    No, what gave you that idea? All the missiles will be based in Syria. I don’t know what the sufficient number is, but we’ll just keep accumulating, until we have enough of them. Hezbollah was somehow able to stockpile over 100.000, now imagine if their missiles were remotely accurate?

    There’s some funny asymmetry here. You assume expeditionary force of Pantsyr would be successful missile defense, while you assume national defense system (with far larger equipment) of your opponent would be unsuccessful.

    Yes. Russia SAM tech is considered vastly superior to Western tech. Israeli missile defence had a horrible performance in a war with Hezbollah. Raytheon has been repeatedly humbled by Houti rebels. Collaboration of two losers cannot be a winner. Otherwise countries would be lining up to purchase “Arrow” instead of S400.

    Can SEAD (of major country) from large distance, be done with only surface-to-surface, conventional missile fire? Is there any historical precedent for this?

    Israel is not a major country. It does not have a lot of resources to invest in R&D. By and large they rely on US military technology. Now Americans never felt the need to seriously invest in air-defence, because they have the worlds most powerful airforce. Consequently American air-defence tech lagged behind Soviet tech. This continued after Cold War. USA has no real means to defend itself against the Russian missiles, which to them is a minor cause for concern. Still, USA greatly benefits from having a lot of strategic depth. Which Israel, being a very tiny country, doesn’t have.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    You admitted to having pro-Israel bias in one of your previous comments – it is too late to retract now. ;)

     

    I am personally a fanboy of Israel who knows the country well. But discussion here is hypothetical "war games" - if your war plan is effective, then I'll like it.

    It does not have a lot of resources to invest in R&D. By and large they rely on US military technology.
     
    A lot of American money goes to Israeli R&D.

    If you look at Arrow 3 system. It's being designed by Israel Aerospace Industries with Boeing.

    All this American money is sent to Israel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3

    They have large research budgets in this area. I will assume engineers don't falsify the tests or specifications, since it would be a national scandal (in small country, where their reputation would be ruined).

    -

    Aside from that, Israel defense budget is $20 billion last year.

    In addition, most of their staff and soldiers are working for free. Even the cyber units are coming for reserve duty.

    If you place Israel military capacity in a European context, I predict would be:
    1. Russia/UK/France
    2. Israel
    3. Germany/Italy/Spain, etc.

    -

    Military industry in Israel was highly protectionist, and followed a lot of "Soviet" inspired import substitution. They even like to build their own electronics, avionics, ammunition, combat boots, uniforms, rifles.


    Israeli missile defence had a horrible performance in a war with Hezbollah.
     
    They had no air-defense against the missiles (actually artillery rockets) in the war with Hezbollah in 2006.

    If you look at the systems:

    Arrow 2 is for ballistic missiles (irrelevant for 2006 war).
    Iron Dome was introduced in 2011. (This would have been most relevant for Hezbollah)
    David's Sling was introduced in 2018.
    And Arrow 3 introduced in 2019.

    I believe the total investment in the missile defense project, is huge. (A lot of it is American money). But they were building these for 20 years.

    Air defense and bunkers - it's all more spending there per person, than anywhere.


    until we have enough of them. Hezbollah was somehow able to stockpile over 100.000, now imagine if their missiles were remotely accurate?

     

    Most of Hezbollah arsenal is just "grad"s though. They have some now more guided missiles as well.

    I don't think Hezbollah will be able to destroy Israel's SAMs, radars or airbases, at all.

    What they can do is bomb the main cities and shut down the country and its economy.

    But this is guerrilla war. It's not applicable for Russian military strategy, which would be conventional war.

    Again, if I want to design a war plan for fighting Israel, I would focus on asymmetric guerrilla warfare .

    Israel is strong conventionally (even in Soviet times - it was not an easy opponent), but Israel is very weak and vulnerable against guerrilla forces.

    Iran knows this and has been 30 years working on it. Their solution: Hezbollah.

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  249. Dmitry says:
    @LatW

    To be honest, I’m admiring some things about Baltic states, like their neoliberal economic philosophy. And also they are good in some areas like gun freedom law.
     
    Well, I'm not really sure that the Baltic states are more "neoliberal" than other EE countries, certainly, many countries are neoliberal. The Baltic countries are certainly very free in some ways (some Western countries are overly micromanaged, regulated and then the countries in the east have problems with elections and the like). And when it comes to guns, one must have them - there are a lot of wild boar roaming around.

    I don’t know if you eat Lithuanian chocolate in Latvia?
     
    Always have, always will. :) Not just chocolate, but other stuff too - cheese, bred, beer, music, spas...

    I occasionally eat a Ukrainian candy called Romashka (Daisy), I quite like it.

    The candy that your folks brought is just chocolate covered cranberries (I suppose if you're gonna eat sugar, at least get some vitamin C with it). I kind of agree with you that less sugar is a sign of quality, but how do you make a candy that's both "guilt-free" (low sugar) and appetizing. So these North European berries are actually pretty good in a way that they are so sour that they balance out the sweetness of the chocolate (for instance, I'm sure Baltic and Russian grown cherries are quite sour compared to the ones grown in California, Washington state, etc). And, btw, you mentioned "Western standard" but I don't really see why that has to be some kind of a benchmark - we should set our own standards, healthiness and originality trumps everything.

    Btw, here's Latvian made gourmet chocolate (it's pricey but you can just buy a few of them as a gift):

    https://www.nelleulla.com/lv-ru/assortiment/shokoladnye-plitki-s-yagodami-kholodnoi-sushki/#menu

    I like the pitch: "В них горит Северное сияние, строптивость и вдохновение. Они вышли из вечнозеленых лесов, где растут полные сил, кислосладкие ягоды."

    I totally love it when they put a table in the middle of the forest and then set it up luxuriously.

    And, btw, you mentioned “Western standard” but I don’t really see why that

    Well it’s a bad choice of words. Not English/American, which is not much better.

    But Swiss/French/Belgium/Italian is a higher standard – I think we all agree. Even for their bad and cheaper chocolates.

    Btw, here’s Latvian made gourmet chocolate (it’s pricey but you can just buy a few of them as a gift):

    https://www.nelleulla.com/lv-ru/assortiment/shokoladnye-plitki-s-yagodami-kholodnoi-sushki/#menu

    I like the pitch: “В них горит Северное сияние, строптивость и вдохновение. Они вышли из вечнозеленых лесов, где растут полные сил, кислосладкие ягоды.”

    I totally love it when they put a table

    This looks very similar to some of the Lithuanian stuff I have received. The frozen strawberries, covered with chocolate is cool.

    -

    So far, for sure, Lithuania chocolate is different style, and with less sugar. (Maybe they are the best chocolate making people in post-Soviet space).

    Read More
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  250. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Well Felix, your argument now some silly rhetoric and womanish stuff about my motives.
     
    You admitted to having pro-Israel bias in one of your previous comments - it is too late to retract now. ;)

    Cruise missiles fired from Southern Russia?

     

    No, what gave you that idea? All the missiles will be based in Syria. I don't know what the sufficient number is, but we'll just keep accumulating, until we have enough of them. Hezbollah was somehow able to stockpile over 100.000, now imagine if their missiles were remotely accurate?

    There’s some funny asymmetry here. You assume expeditionary force of Pantsyr would be successful missile defense, while you assume national defense system (with far larger equipment) of your opponent would be unsuccessful.
     
    Yes. Russia SAM tech is considered vastly superior to Western tech. Israeli missile defence had a horrible performance in a war with Hezbollah. Raytheon has been repeatedly humbled by Houti rebels. Collaboration of two losers cannot be a winner. Otherwise countries would be lining up to purchase "Arrow" instead of S400.


    Can SEAD (of major country) from large distance, be done with only surface-to-surface, conventional missile fire? Is there any historical precedent for this?
     
    Israel is not a major country. It does not have a lot of resources to invest in R&D. By and large they rely on US military technology. Now Americans never felt the need to seriously invest in air-defence, because they have the worlds most powerful airforce. Consequently American air-defence tech lagged behind Soviet tech. This continued after Cold War. USA has no real means to defend itself against the Russian missiles, which to them is a minor cause for concern. Still, USA greatly benefits from having a lot of strategic depth. Which Israel, being a very tiny country, doesn't have.

    You admitted to having pro-Israel bias in one of your previous comments – it is too late to retract now. ;)

    I am personally a fanboy of Israel who knows the country well. But discussion here is hypothetical “war games” – if your war plan is effective, then I’ll like it.

    It does not have a lot of resources to invest in R&D. By and large they rely on US military technology.

    A lot of American money goes to Israeli R&D.

    If you look at Arrow 3 system. It’s being designed by Israel Aerospace Industries with Boeing.

    All this American money is sent to Israel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3

    They have large research budgets in this area. I will assume engineers don’t falsify the tests or specifications, since it would be a national scandal (in small country, where their reputation would be ruined).

    -

    Aside from that, Israel defense budget is $20 billion last year.

    In addition, most of their staff and soldiers are working for free. Even the cyber units are coming for reserve duty.

    If you place Israel military capacity in a European context, I predict would be:
    1. Russia/UK/France
    2. Israel
    3. Germany/Italy/Spain, etc.

    -

    Military industry in Israel was highly protectionist, and followed a lot of “Soviet” inspired import substitution. They even like to build their own electronics, avionics, ammunition, combat boots, uniforms, rifles.

    Israeli missile defence had a horrible performance in a war with Hezbollah.

    They had no air-defense against the missiles (actually artillery rockets) in the war with Hezbollah in 2006.

    If you look at the systems:

    Arrow 2 is for ballistic missiles (irrelevant for 2006 war).
    Iron Dome was introduced in 2011. (This would have been most relevant for Hezbollah)
    David’s Sling was introduced in 2018.
    And Arrow 3 introduced in 2019.

    I believe the total investment in the missile defense project, is huge. (A lot of it is American money). But they were building these for 20 years.

    Air defense and bunkers – it’s all more spending there per person, than anywhere.

    until we have enough of them. Hezbollah was somehow able to stockpile over 100.000, now imagine if their missiles were remotely accurate?

    Most of Hezbollah arsenal is just “grad”s though. They have some now more guided missiles as well.

    I don’t think Hezbollah will be able to destroy Israel’s SAMs, radars or airbases, at all.

    What they can do is bomb the main cities and shut down the country and its economy.

    But this is guerrilla war. It’s not applicable for Russian military strategy, which would be conventional war.

    Again, if I want to design a war plan for fighting Israel, I would focus on asymmetric guerrilla warfare .

    Israel is strong conventionally (even in Soviet times – it was not an easy opponent), but Israel is very weak and vulnerable against guerrilla forces.

    Iran knows this and has been 30 years working on it. Their solution: Hezbollah.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich

    I am personally a fanboy of Israel who knows the country well.
     
    Your Jewish ancestry is what makes you a fanboy. You gotta understand this about yourself.

    There is nothing to like about Israeli occupation or the way Jews act as parasites extracting wealth from white countries, including Russia. You like them on a subconscious level, simply because you share some of their DNA.


    Most of Hezbollah arsenal is just “grad”s though. They have some now more guided missiles as well.
     
    My point was that stockpiling missiles in Syria should pose no major logistical challenge to Russia, given that a paramilitary organisation was able accumulate over 100.000 of them.

    I believe the total investment in the missile defense project, is huge. (A lot of it is American money). But they were building these for 20 years.

    Air defense and bunkers – it’s all more spending there per person, than anywhere.
     

    It's up to Israel to prove that any of this stuff actually works. We have no reason to assume that it works. You're willing to give Israelis the benefit of the doubt, because you share blood with them (LOL), but the record of US/Israeli failures makes me deeply sceptical.
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  251. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Felix Keverich
    You should stop arguing with AP: not only you're feeding a hohlo-troll, you helped him fill this thread with several pages worth of хохлосрач.

    Like Umland, he has been so convincing. When these types are uncritically propped (whether here or at JRL), many not knowing better can get subconsciously duped.

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  252. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP
    Thanks for showing that you failed to find a single poll that contradicts the multiple polls showing 2 to 3 times more support for the Kiev schismatic Church than for the Moscow one in Ukraine. All you have is, "I have a friend who told me something about his church in America." Or some irrelevant stuff about something Poroshenko allegedly said about Jews in Crimea.

    You’ve failed to prove me wrong yet again. The kind of polling that you prop is subject to error much like what you choose to highlight with some DNA studies.

    Meantime, my on the ground sources are in sync with what some others have observed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Meantime, my on the ground sources are in sync with what some others have observed.
     
    You mean that little man in your brain that keeps telling you that all things good emanate from the Kremlin? :-)
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  253. @Dmitry

    You admitted to having pro-Israel bias in one of your previous comments – it is too late to retract now. ;)

     

    I am personally a fanboy of Israel who knows the country well. But discussion here is hypothetical "war games" - if your war plan is effective, then I'll like it.

    It does not have a lot of resources to invest in R&D. By and large they rely on US military technology.
     
    A lot of American money goes to Israeli R&D.

    If you look at Arrow 3 system. It's being designed by Israel Aerospace Industries with Boeing.

    All this American money is sent to Israel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_3

    They have large research budgets in this area. I will assume engineers don't falsify the tests or specifications, since it would be a national scandal (in small country, where their reputation would be ruined).

    -

    Aside from that, Israel defense budget is $20 billion last year.

    In addition, most of their staff and soldiers are working for free. Even the cyber units are coming for reserve duty.

    If you place Israel military capacity in a European context, I predict would be:
    1. Russia/UK/France
    2. Israel
    3. Germany/Italy/Spain, etc.

    -

    Military industry in Israel was highly protectionist, and followed a lot of "Soviet" inspired import substitution. They even like to build their own electronics, avionics, ammunition, combat boots, uniforms, rifles.


    Israeli missile defence had a horrible performance in a war with Hezbollah.
     
    They had no air-defense against the missiles (actually artillery rockets) in the war with Hezbollah in 2006.

    If you look at the systems:

    Arrow 2 is for ballistic missiles (irrelevant for 2006 war).
    Iron Dome was introduced in 2011. (This would have been most relevant for Hezbollah)
    David's Sling was introduced in 2018.
    And Arrow 3 introduced in 2019.

    I believe the total investment in the missile defense project, is huge. (A lot of it is American money). But they were building these for 20 years.

    Air defense and bunkers - it's all more spending there per person, than anywhere.


    until we have enough of them. Hezbollah was somehow able to stockpile over 100.000, now imagine if their missiles were remotely accurate?

     

    Most of Hezbollah arsenal is just "grad"s though. They have some now more guided missiles as well.

    I don't think Hezbollah will be able to destroy Israel's SAMs, radars or airbases, at all.

    What they can do is bomb the main cities and shut down the country and its economy.

    But this is guerrilla war. It's not applicable for Russian military strategy, which would be conventional war.

    Again, if I want to design a war plan for fighting Israel, I would focus on asymmetric guerrilla warfare .

    Israel is strong conventionally (even in Soviet times - it was not an easy opponent), but Israel is very weak and vulnerable against guerrilla forces.

    Iran knows this and has been 30 years working on it. Their solution: Hezbollah.

    I am personally a fanboy of Israel who knows the country well.

    Your Jewish ancestry is what makes you a fanboy. You gotta understand this about yourself.

    There is nothing to like about Israeli occupation or the way Jews act as parasites extracting wealth from white countries, including Russia. You like them on a subconscious level, simply because you share some of their DNA.

    Most of Hezbollah arsenal is just “grad”s though. They have some now more guided missiles as well.

    My point was that stockpiling missiles in Syria should pose no major logistical challenge to Russia, given that a paramilitary organisation was able accumulate over 100.000 of them.

    I believe the total investment in the missile defense project, is huge. (A lot of it is American money). But they were building these for 20 years.

    Air defense and bunkers – it’s all more spending there per person, than anywhere.

    It’s up to Israel to prove that any of this stuff actually works. We have no reason to assume that it works. You’re willing to give Israelis the benefit of the doubt, because you share blood with them (LOL), but the record of US/Israeli failures makes me deeply sceptical.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dmitry

    Your Jewish ancestry is what makes you a fanboy. You gotta understand this about yourself.

    There is nothing to like about Israeli occupation or the way Jews act as parasites extracting wealth from white countries, including Russia. You like them on a subconscious level, simply because you share some of their DNA.
     

    Sure my general fanboyism (of Israel) is probably influenced by fact my backup plan is to get an Israeli passport (my grandfather has Jewish ancestry so I can be an Israeli passport - if I waited around there long enough).

    But your ancestry argument is not making sense in this discussion.

    If ancestry infl