The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersRussian Reaction Blog
Open Thread: The Trumpen King's Coronation from Moscow
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New Reply
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

trump-in-moscow

I watched the God Emperor’s ascension to the Golden Throne at a bar night for American expats in Moscow. The mood there was largely pro-Trumpist, though obviously there was a self-selection mechanism involved. Everyone disliked HRC, though there were a fair number of Bernouts.

I got into a discussion with a reasonably influential official from the Russian Foreign Ministry. As I expected, the mood there is reasonably optimistic. They seem to be assigning considerable weight to Trump’s past as a businessman, the assumption being that such a person would be easier to do deals with than the globalist ideologues who previously occupied the White House.

That said, once burnt, twice shy – and Russia was burned not just once, but thrice. Three times Russia made unilateral concessions to incoming US Presidents promising a reset in relations that ultimately went unreciprocated (the Foreign Ministry still has Hillary Clinton’s infamous reset button in its museum). The sanctions are simply not regarded as a very critical matter – the import substitution program is in full swing, and it is working – so there is absolutely no enthusiasm for making more of the unilateral concessions that Russia had gifted previous incoming US Presidents. A limited mutual reduction of nukes is considered an acceptable deal for a US commitment to curtail its interference in Ukraine, since the ongoing killings of Russians in the Donbass by the Maidanist regime is regarded as a legitimacy problem for the Russian government.

I got briefly interviewed by a French journalist doing a story on Moscow expat attitudes to Trump. Incidentally, the world of Moscow expats is a pretty small one – even though it was not a particularly big event, I nonetheless managed to meet half a dozen people whom I had corresponded with or at least seen on some comment thread or another during my now almost decade’s worth of “Russia watching.”

In other news, my latest podcast/interview with Robert Stark is out now.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Moscow, Open Thread, The AK, Trump 
Hide 51 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
    []
  1. Glossy says: • Website

    A few weeks ago the Wall St Journal published a letter from a Ukrainian oligarch who said that the Ukraine should agree to local elections in Donetsk and Lugansk before/without reestablishing control there. This would send Novorossian representatives to the parliament in Kiev, changing the balance of power there somewhat. If you thought their fist fights were wild now…

    I think this is Putin’s stated goal. Was it ever his real goal? Some think that he didn’t admit the two republics into Russia because he hoped to eventually force Kiev to accept them back into the Ukraine on his terms, as an anti-Maidan block in parliament and with cultural and linguistic autonomy.

    The above-mentioned letter could be a trial baloon by the junta, humbled and suing for peace after Hillary’s defeat. It could be a revolt against Porky by a part of the Ukro oligarchy that wants to negotiate with Russia. It could be lots of other things.

    Putin’s negotiating position was improved by Hillary’s defeat, so he might want more now than he did during the 2014 – 2016 period. For example, increasing the size of the Novorossian autonomous republic to include the entirety of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. Or even Kharkov.

    Lots of people in Russia and Novorossia would be disappointed by any such deal. But I guess it’s possible.

    The Ukraine could be reconstituted as a confederation of two or more republics with lots of self-governance. Without the Crimea, of course. If there’s a deal, that might be its outline. Or maybe there won’t be a deal. The current situation can last for decades too.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
    AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
    These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
    Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
    Sharing Comment via Twitter
    /akarlin/open-thread-5/#comment-1734601
    More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  2. Your podcast – on Starktruthradio
    It seems this site is blocked by Virgin media cable and internet provider (a major UK cable operator).
    “It’s listed as having content that’s inappropriate for children, involving either pornography, hate, crime, drugs, violence, hacking, self harm or suicide.”
    Shame on Virgin.
    Any other link?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  3. jtgw says:

    If I were to persuade somebody that Putin is not a threat to Western Europe, what should be my main talking point? My stepfather is Danish and is convinced that NATO is the only think standing against Russian occupation of his country. There obviously is no motivation at all for Putin to invade Denmark, even if you believe that he is set on reuniting all the old Soviet republics. I happen to think that the continuing independence of Belarus, whose government has in the past been very favorable towards rejoining Russia, is pretty strong evidence that Putin is not an expansionist, but what would you say?

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Belarus, whose government has in the past been very favorable towards rejoining Russia
     
    I think it only lasted until Lukashenka had a chance of becoming Russian president (or the president of the Russian/Belorussian Federation or something), and the enthusiasm of the population was a bit less, especially since for some time living standards were lower in Russia (now about the same). I also think last year (or was it the year before?) Lukashenka made a show of delivering his New Year's address in Belorussian (rather than in Russian, which he had done up to that year). I guess Lukashenka is happy to be an independent dictator and isn't quite eager for Belarus to become - as he once put it - the 91st oblast of Russia.

    But it's obvious that if Putin has no desire or no strength to annex its friendly ally (satellite), then it poses basically no threat to Denmark.
    , @Glossy
    The current score of Russia and Denmark invading each other seems to be 0:1, with Denmark leading due to an early effort by Rurik of Dorestad:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorik_of_Dorestad

    If I were Danish, I'd be more worried about Muslims and sub-Saharans.
    , @5371
    Your stepfather should learn from the leader of the Progress Party, back in the happy days when taxes were the only thing to be unhappy about in Denmark. A man, incidentally, so charismatic that I have forgotten his name. Anyway, he proposed replacing the Danish armed forces with a tape recording of someone saying "we surrender" in Russian.
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    If I were to persuade somebody that Putin is not a threat to Western Europe, what should be my main talking point?
     
    Show them this;-)

    https://youtu.be/cyPsqsH8I4M
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  4. JL says:

    the world of Moscow expats is a pretty small one

    It used to be much bigger. I don’t know of any relevant statistical measurements, but, anecdotally speaking, there were two major waves of exodus: First, after the 2008 crisis, and then again after Crimea and the devaluation in 2014. Good riddance to most of them as far as I’m concerned, they invariably fell into the Russians-need-to-be-more-like-us category. Now, all that’s left are diehard Russophiles and those of us who, for whatever reason, can’t make it anywhere else.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    When I lived there I avoided the Americans, seeing them once in awhile at a museum or a show. The closest I got to a social encounter was when a friend threw a party and the guys from the exile showed up. We missed each other and I didn't speak to them, but was told later that their hatred of America was incredible and kind of shocking to the Russians.

    My wife just got back from a visit. She said several stores in Moscow had closed. She went out with a friend to a nice restaurant on a Friday night and it was completely empty, other than them and a small party. So the crisis isn't nothing - though there is no widespread hardship, either.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. @jtgw
    If I were to persuade somebody that Putin is not a threat to Western Europe, what should be my main talking point? My stepfather is Danish and is convinced that NATO is the only think standing against Russian occupation of his country. There obviously is no motivation at all for Putin to invade Denmark, even if you believe that he is set on reuniting all the old Soviet republics. I happen to think that the continuing independence of Belarus, whose government has in the past been very favorable towards rejoining Russia, is pretty strong evidence that Putin is not an expansionist, but what would you say?

    Belarus, whose government has in the past been very favorable towards rejoining Russia

    I think it only lasted until Lukashenka had a chance of becoming Russian president (or the president of the Russian/Belorussian Federation or something), and the enthusiasm of the population was a bit less, especially since for some time living standards were lower in Russia (now about the same). I also think last year (or was it the year before?) Lukashenka made a show of delivering his New Year’s address in Belorussian (rather than in Russian, which he had done up to that year). I guess Lukashenka is happy to be an independent dictator and isn’t quite eager for Belarus to become – as he once put it – the 91st oblast of Russia.

    But it’s obvious that if Putin has no desire or no strength to annex its friendly ally (satellite), then it poses basically no threat to Denmark.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    That's interesting; I'd always thought Lukashenka was a proud Russian speaker with little sympathy for Belorussian nationalist pretensions. I wonder how the Russian-speaking majority of the country feels about it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. Glossy says: • Website
    @jtgw
    If I were to persuade somebody that Putin is not a threat to Western Europe, what should be my main talking point? My stepfather is Danish and is convinced that NATO is the only think standing against Russian occupation of his country. There obviously is no motivation at all for Putin to invade Denmark, even if you believe that he is set on reuniting all the old Soviet republics. I happen to think that the continuing independence of Belarus, whose government has in the past been very favorable towards rejoining Russia, is pretty strong evidence that Putin is not an expansionist, but what would you say?

    The current score of Russia and Denmark invading each other seems to be 0:1, with Denmark leading due to an early effort by Rurik of Dorestad:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorik_of_Dorestad

    If I were Danish, I’d be more worried about Muslims and sub-Saharans.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. notanon says:

    The sanctions are simply not regarded as a very critical matter – the import substitution program is in full swing, and it is working

    yes, that was a nice bit of judopolitik

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    yes, that was a nice bit of judopolitik
     
    WTF??
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  8. 5371 says:
    @jtgw
    If I were to persuade somebody that Putin is not a threat to Western Europe, what should be my main talking point? My stepfather is Danish and is convinced that NATO is the only think standing against Russian occupation of his country. There obviously is no motivation at all for Putin to invade Denmark, even if you believe that he is set on reuniting all the old Soviet republics. I happen to think that the continuing independence of Belarus, whose government has in the past been very favorable towards rejoining Russia, is pretty strong evidence that Putin is not an expansionist, but what would you say?

    Your stepfather should learn from the leader of the Progress Party, back in the happy days when taxes were the only thing to be unhappy about in Denmark. A man, incidentally, so charismatic that I have forgotten his name. Anyway, he proposed replacing the Danish armed forces with a tape recording of someone saying “we surrender” in Russian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    Haha that was Mogens Glistrup.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. jtgw says:
    @5371
    Your stepfather should learn from the leader of the Progress Party, back in the happy days when taxes were the only thing to be unhappy about in Denmark. A man, incidentally, so charismatic that I have forgotten his name. Anyway, he proposed replacing the Danish armed forces with a tape recording of someone saying "we surrender" in Russian.

    Haha that was Mogens Glistrup.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. jtgw says:
    @reiner Tor

    Belarus, whose government has in the past been very favorable towards rejoining Russia
     
    I think it only lasted until Lukashenka had a chance of becoming Russian president (or the president of the Russian/Belorussian Federation or something), and the enthusiasm of the population was a bit less, especially since for some time living standards were lower in Russia (now about the same). I also think last year (or was it the year before?) Lukashenka made a show of delivering his New Year's address in Belorussian (rather than in Russian, which he had done up to that year). I guess Lukashenka is happy to be an independent dictator and isn't quite eager for Belarus to become - as he once put it - the 91st oblast of Russia.

    But it's obvious that if Putin has no desire or no strength to annex its friendly ally (satellite), then it poses basically no threat to Denmark.

    That’s interesting; I’d always thought Lukashenka was a proud Russian speaker with little sympathy for Belorussian nationalist pretensions. I wonder how the Russian-speaking majority of the country feels about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I think they're cool with it. Lukashenka normally speaks Russian (up until that time he always delivered his speeches in Russian), so it was just a show of independence, and I think the majority agrees with him that the current situation is perfectly fine and that there's no need to become the 91st oblast of Russia.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. @jtgw
    That's interesting; I'd always thought Lukashenka was a proud Russian speaker with little sympathy for Belorussian nationalist pretensions. I wonder how the Russian-speaking majority of the country feels about it.

    I think they’re cool with it. Lukashenka normally speaks Russian (up until that time he always delivered his speeches in Russian), so it was just a show of independence, and I think the majority agrees with him that the current situation is perfectly fine and that there’s no need to become the 91st oblast of Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    For what they are worth, opinion polls show attitudes to integration with Russia in Belarus are similar to that of the Donbass.

    So there will be no resistance to such a scenario, however it folds out.

    There are two issues, of course:

    (1) As a pragmatic civic nationalist, not ethnonationalist, regime, with no understanding of HBD, the Russian government doesn't generally regard Belarus as something cardinally different to, say, Kyrgyzstan.

    (2) As in Ukraine, there is a steady process of cultural drift towards Europe, especially amongst young people. So attitudes today may well not be attitudes in another 25 years.

    Relative to Ukraine, the process of Western drift has gone much slower in Belarus, because Lukashenko for a long time did genuinely freeze things. However, he is now beginning to embrace a more Belorussian nationalist narrative - apart from the signs mentioned above, in recent weeks they also arrested several journalists for supporting Russia integrationist policies.

    Incidentally, this was condemned by Reporters without Borders, while the Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zakharova (an objection of adoration in the "patriotic" community) stooped so low as to compliment the Belorussian actions.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. Jon0815 says:

    A limited mutual reduction of nukes is considered an acceptable deal for a US commitment to curtail its interference in Ukraine, since the ongoing killings of Russians in the Donbass by the Maidanist regime is regarded as a legitimacy problem for the Russian government.

    It was stupid for Putin to not let the D/LNR at least retake the handful of villages necessary to push the Maidanist army out of artillery range of Donetsk.

    Although if you believe the DNR government, the ongoing killings aren’t hurting their economic recovery: They are claiming their GDP increased 52% (!) last year.

    http://dan-news.info/en/economy/zakharchenko-dpr-economy-52-percent-up-in-2016.html

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  13. @reiner Tor
    I think they're cool with it. Lukashenka normally speaks Russian (up until that time he always delivered his speeches in Russian), so it was just a show of independence, and I think the majority agrees with him that the current situation is perfectly fine and that there's no need to become the 91st oblast of Russia.

    For what they are worth, opinion polls show attitudes to integration with Russia in Belarus are similar to that of the Donbass.

    So there will be no resistance to such a scenario, however it folds out.

    There are two issues, of course:

    (1) As a pragmatic civic nationalist, not ethnonationalist, regime, with no understanding of HBD, the Russian government doesn’t generally regard Belarus as something cardinally different to, say, Kyrgyzstan.

    (2) As in Ukraine, there is a steady process of cultural drift towards Europe, especially amongst young people. So attitudes today may well not be attitudes in another 25 years.

    Relative to Ukraine, the process of Western drift has gone much slower in Belarus, because Lukashenko for a long time did genuinely freeze things. However, he is now beginning to embrace a more Belorussian nationalist narrative – apart from the signs mentioned above, in recent weeks they also arrested several journalists for supporting Russia integrationist policies.

    Incidentally, this was condemned by Reporters without Borders, while the Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zakharova (an objection of adoration in the “patriotic” community) stooped so low as to compliment the Belorussian actions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    I don't follow Belarus that closely, but I did notice that official placenames there now seem to be given in Belarussian, not Russian, by default, e.g. on Google Maps. I wondered whether that reflected more nationalistic policy on their part and I suppose this confirms my suspicion.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @jtgw
    If I were to persuade somebody that Putin is not a threat to Western Europe, what should be my main talking point? My stepfather is Danish and is convinced that NATO is the only think standing against Russian occupation of his country. There obviously is no motivation at all for Putin to invade Denmark, even if you believe that he is set on reuniting all the old Soviet republics. I happen to think that the continuing independence of Belarus, whose government has in the past been very favorable towards rejoining Russia, is pretty strong evidence that Putin is not an expansionist, but what would you say?

    If I were to persuade somebody that Putin is not a threat to Western Europe, what should be my main talking point?

    Show them this;-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    Hah that was great!

    I'm trying to think of a single Swede who isn't a complete degenerate and might actually be able to fight back the Russkies, but alas he lives in LA.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. jtgw says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    For what they are worth, opinion polls show attitudes to integration with Russia in Belarus are similar to that of the Donbass.

    So there will be no resistance to such a scenario, however it folds out.

    There are two issues, of course:

    (1) As a pragmatic civic nationalist, not ethnonationalist, regime, with no understanding of HBD, the Russian government doesn't generally regard Belarus as something cardinally different to, say, Kyrgyzstan.

    (2) As in Ukraine, there is a steady process of cultural drift towards Europe, especially amongst young people. So attitudes today may well not be attitudes in another 25 years.

    Relative to Ukraine, the process of Western drift has gone much slower in Belarus, because Lukashenko for a long time did genuinely freeze things. However, he is now beginning to embrace a more Belorussian nationalist narrative - apart from the signs mentioned above, in recent weeks they also arrested several journalists for supporting Russia integrationist policies.

    Incidentally, this was condemned by Reporters without Borders, while the Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zakharova (an objection of adoration in the "patriotic" community) stooped so low as to compliment the Belorussian actions.

    I don’t follow Belarus that closely, but I did notice that official placenames there now seem to be given in Belarussian, not Russian, by default, e.g. on Google Maps. I wondered whether that reflected more nationalistic policy on their part and I suppose this confirms my suspicion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    My relatives who live in Poland visit their
    relatives in Belarus quite frequently. There
    are about 400,000 ethnic Poles in Belarus
    (about 4%). Poland feels very close to that region.
    E.g., Poland's national bard Adam Mickiewicz was
    born there. The state of Lithuania in the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth actually included mostly
    Belarus and western Ukraine so "Lithuania" consisted
    mostly of polonized Ruthenians and ruthenized Poles.
    And, of course, much of Belarus was part of Poland
    during 1919-1939.

    In recent years there has been a rapprochement between
    Poland and Belarus, incl. high-level government visits.
    Belarus, like Russia, is going through a recession, so the
    eyes of the Belarusians are turning toward Poland which is
    doing well economically. Just as in Ukraine, the Polish
    government is issuing the so-called Karta Polaka (A
    Polander's Card) to anyone who can demonstrate Polish
    ancestry, which then entitles the holder to dual citizenship.
    Of course, youth exchanges between Belarus and Poland have
    been going on for years but what's new is the growing number
    of Belarusians who come to Poland to work or study.

    Of all the regions of the Commonwealth Poland naturally
    feels closest to Lithuania due to the common Catholic tradition
    and centuries of togetherness. Some Lithuanian nationalists are
    now claiming, "We're the original Aryans," etc, but when you
    examine their surnames you notice that the most common ones
    are Polish surnames with Lithuanian suffixes, e.g., Zemeckis.
    But aside from this the relations between the Polanders and the
    Lithuanians are quite warm, esp. in the United States where they
    actually have a chance to interact
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  16. jtgw says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    If I were to persuade somebody that Putin is not a threat to Western Europe, what should be my main talking point?
     
    Show them this;-)

    https://youtu.be/cyPsqsH8I4M

    Hah that was great!

    I’m trying to think of a single Swede who isn’t a complete degenerate and might actually be able to fight back the Russkies, but alas he lives in LA.

    Read More
    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    Love Dolph, a man of very many talents, plus he is Russian--he just goes there under the name of Ivan Drago;-) I do, however, have a very soft Swedish spot--my generation of Russkies grew up on ABBA on high-school discotheques in 1970s. Who would have thought that this would happen to Sweden. Sad.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @jtgw
    Hah that was great!

    I'm trying to think of a single Swede who isn't a complete degenerate and might actually be able to fight back the Russkies, but alas he lives in LA.

    Love Dolph, a man of very many talents, plus he is Russian–he just goes there under the name of Ivan Drago;-) I do, however, have a very soft Swedish spot–my generation of Russkies grew up on ABBA on high-school discotheques in 1970s. Who would have thought that this would happen to Sweden. Sad.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  18. AP says:
    @JL

    the world of Moscow expats is a pretty small one
     
    It used to be much bigger. I don't know of any relevant statistical measurements, but, anecdotally speaking, there were two major waves of exodus: First, after the 2008 crisis, and then again after Crimea and the devaluation in 2014. Good riddance to most of them as far as I'm concerned, they invariably fell into the Russians-need-to-be-more-like-us category. Now, all that's left are diehard Russophiles and those of us who, for whatever reason, can't make it anywhere else.

    When I lived there I avoided the Americans, seeing them once in awhile at a museum or a show. The closest I got to a social encounter was when a friend threw a party and the guys from the exile showed up. We missed each other and I didn’t speak to them, but was told later that their hatred of America was incredible and kind of shocking to the Russians.

    My wife just got back from a visit. She said several stores in Moscow had closed. She went out with a friend to a nice restaurant on a Friday night and it was completely empty, other than them and a small party. So the crisis isn’t nothing – though there is no widespread hardship, either.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    That is true:

    ... the shopping centers were surprisingly empty, especially for this time of year. Russia might be climbing out of the recession according to the latest indicators, but it’s clear that it is not yet being reflected in consumer confidence on the ground.
     
    , @5371
    I can imagine what kind of "Russians" you associate with that they thought Ames and Taibbi had a shocking hatred of America.
    *snip*

    AK: Attack the argument, or the man if you really have to, but their family members are off limits. Thanks.
    , @Gerard2
    M

    y wife just got back from a visit. She said several stores in Moscow had closed. She went out with a friend to a nice restaurant on a Friday night and it was completely empty, other than them and a small party. So the crisis isn’t nothing – though there is no widespread hardship, either.
     
    BS you fantasist POS troll retard. "closed"? That is more bollocks you idiot. None of that is happening in Moscow.
    "empty" ?apart from the fictional "wife" bit......it has been the quiet period after NY,then Chirstmas afterwards and the -30C weather. Many places still packed out though you dipshit
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @notanon

    The sanctions are simply not regarded as a very critical matter – the import substitution program is in full swing, and it is working
     
    yes, that was a nice bit of judopolitik

    yes, that was a nice bit of judopolitik

    WTF??

    Read More
    • Replies: @notanon
    Judo - use opponent's weight/attack to throw them

    Judopolitik
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  20. @AP
    When I lived there I avoided the Americans, seeing them once in awhile at a museum or a show. The closest I got to a social encounter was when a friend threw a party and the guys from the exile showed up. We missed each other and I didn't speak to them, but was told later that their hatred of America was incredible and kind of shocking to the Russians.

    My wife just got back from a visit. She said several stores in Moscow had closed. She went out with a friend to a nice restaurant on a Friday night and it was completely empty, other than them and a small party. So the crisis isn't nothing - though there is no widespread hardship, either.

    That is true:

    … the shopping centers were surprisingly empty, especially for this time of year. Russia might be climbing out of the recession according to the latest indicators, but it’s clear that it is not yet being reflected in consumer confidence on the ground.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Or else too many shopping centres have been built recently.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  21. notanon says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    yes, that was a nice bit of judopolitik
     
    WTF??

    Judo – use opponent’s weight/attack to throw them

    Judopolitik

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    OK, got it.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  22. 5371 says:
    @AP
    When I lived there I avoided the Americans, seeing them once in awhile at a museum or a show. The closest I got to a social encounter was when a friend threw a party and the guys from the exile showed up. We missed each other and I didn't speak to them, but was told later that their hatred of America was incredible and kind of shocking to the Russians.

    My wife just got back from a visit. She said several stores in Moscow had closed. She went out with a friend to a nice restaurant on a Friday night and it was completely empty, other than them and a small party. So the crisis isn't nothing - though there is no widespread hardship, either.

    I can imagine what kind of “Russians” you associate with that they thought Ames and Taibbi had a shocking hatred of America.
    *snip*

    AK: Attack the argument, or the man if you really have to, but their family members are off limits. Thanks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    I can imagine what kind of “Russians” you associate with
     
    This guy has decent relations with VVP.

    that they thought Ames and Taibbi had a shocking hatred of America.
     
    Some people are shocked to find someone with an intense hatred of their own country. It was seen as rather indecent to hate one's own country, even if it has done some terrible things as the USA had done. I suppose you disagree.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  23. 5371 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    That is true:

    ... the shopping centers were surprisingly empty, especially for this time of year. Russia might be climbing out of the recession according to the latest indicators, but it’s clear that it is not yet being reflected in consumer confidence on the ground.
     

    Or else too many shopping centres have been built recently.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    The places which are packed are, of course, Auchan, Leroy Merlrene or IKEA. And, of course, other "market" places. Going to Krestovsky, which is very expensive, let alone visiting such places as huge Aviapark mall, where the prices in some furniture stores, as an example, are, to put it mildly, beyond common sense and the only reason to go there is to skate on the 4th floor or seat in cafes and Starbucks and marvel at gigantic (4-5 storey high) glass aquarium. During work day such malls feel pretty empty.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  24. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @notanon
    Judo - use opponent's weight/attack to throw them

    Judopolitik

    OK, got it.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  25. AP says:
    @5371
    I can imagine what kind of "Russians" you associate with that they thought Ames and Taibbi had a shocking hatred of America.
    *snip*

    AK: Attack the argument, or the man if you really have to, but their family members are off limits. Thanks.

    I can imagine what kind of “Russians” you associate with

    This guy has decent relations with VVP.

    that they thought Ames and Taibbi had a shocking hatred of America.

    Some people are shocked to find someone with an intense hatred of their own country. It was seen as rather indecent to hate one’s own country, even if it has done some terrible things as the USA had done. I suppose you disagree.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. Anon 2 says:
    @jtgw
    I don't follow Belarus that closely, but I did notice that official placenames there now seem to be given in Belarussian, not Russian, by default, e.g. on Google Maps. I wondered whether that reflected more nationalistic policy on their part and I suppose this confirms my suspicion.

    My relatives who live in Poland visit their
    relatives in Belarus quite frequently. There
    are about 400,000 ethnic Poles in Belarus
    (about 4%). Poland feels very close to that region.
    E.g., Poland’s national bard Adam Mickiewicz was
    born there. The state of Lithuania in the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth actually included mostly
    Belarus and western Ukraine so “Lithuania” consisted
    mostly of polonized Ruthenians and ruthenized Poles.
    And, of course, much of Belarus was part of Poland
    during 1919-1939.

    In recent years there has been a rapprochement between
    Poland and Belarus, incl. high-level government visits.
    Belarus, like Russia, is going through a recession, so the
    eyes of the Belarusians are turning toward Poland which is
    doing well economically. Just as in Ukraine, the Polish
    government is issuing the so-called Karta Polaka (A
    Polander’s Card) to anyone who can demonstrate Polish
    ancestry, which then entitles the holder to dual citizenship.
    Of course, youth exchanges between Belarus and Poland have
    been going on for years but what’s new is the growing number
    of Belarusians who come to Poland to work or study.

    Of all the regions of the Commonwealth Poland naturally
    feels closest to Lithuania due to the common Catholic tradition
    and centuries of togetherness. Some Lithuanian nationalists are
    now claiming, “We’re the original Aryans,” etc, but when you
    examine their surnames you notice that the most common ones
    are Polish surnames with Lithuanian suffixes, e.g., Zemeckis.
    But aside from this the relations between the Polanders and the
    Lithuanians are quite warm, esp. in the United States where they
    actually have a chance to interact

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    Yeah, I imagine the "original Aryan" nonsense comes from statements by some linguists that Lithuanian is the closest modern Indo-European language to Proto-Indo-European. It certainly has many archaic features, but statements like that are rather subjective (since you have to choose which archaic linguistic features to give more weight to).

    I know Poles and Lithuanians remained more or less entirely within Roman rite Catholicism, but that the situation is more complicated with Belarussians and Ukrainians. Many Ukrainians under Polish rule became Uniates/Greek Catholics (Orthodox rites but in union with the Pope); did the same thing occur in Belarus? I know there is also a Polish Orthodox Church but I don't know much about their history (converts to Orthodoxy under Russian rule? or are they actually ethnic Belarussians?)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  27. Andrei Martyanov [AKA "SmoothieX12"] says: • Website
    @5371
    Or else too many shopping centres have been built recently.

    The places which are packed are, of course, Auchan, Leroy Merlrene or IKEA. And, of course, other “market” places. Going to Krestovsky, which is very expensive, let alone visiting such places as huge Aviapark mall, where the prices in some furniture stores, as an example, are, to put it mildly, beyond common sense and the only reason to go there is to skate on the 4th floor or seat in cafes and Starbucks and marvel at gigantic (4-5 storey high) glass aquarium. During work day such malls feel pretty empty.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  28. jtgw says:
    @Anon 2
    My relatives who live in Poland visit their
    relatives in Belarus quite frequently. There
    are about 400,000 ethnic Poles in Belarus
    (about 4%). Poland feels very close to that region.
    E.g., Poland's national bard Adam Mickiewicz was
    born there. The state of Lithuania in the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth actually included mostly
    Belarus and western Ukraine so "Lithuania" consisted
    mostly of polonized Ruthenians and ruthenized Poles.
    And, of course, much of Belarus was part of Poland
    during 1919-1939.

    In recent years there has been a rapprochement between
    Poland and Belarus, incl. high-level government visits.
    Belarus, like Russia, is going through a recession, so the
    eyes of the Belarusians are turning toward Poland which is
    doing well economically. Just as in Ukraine, the Polish
    government is issuing the so-called Karta Polaka (A
    Polander's Card) to anyone who can demonstrate Polish
    ancestry, which then entitles the holder to dual citizenship.
    Of course, youth exchanges between Belarus and Poland have
    been going on for years but what's new is the growing number
    of Belarusians who come to Poland to work or study.

    Of all the regions of the Commonwealth Poland naturally
    feels closest to Lithuania due to the common Catholic tradition
    and centuries of togetherness. Some Lithuanian nationalists are
    now claiming, "We're the original Aryans," etc, but when you
    examine their surnames you notice that the most common ones
    are Polish surnames with Lithuanian suffixes, e.g., Zemeckis.
    But aside from this the relations between the Polanders and the
    Lithuanians are quite warm, esp. in the United States where they
    actually have a chance to interact

    Yeah, I imagine the “original Aryan” nonsense comes from statements by some linguists that Lithuanian is the closest modern Indo-European language to Proto-Indo-European. It certainly has many archaic features, but statements like that are rather subjective (since you have to choose which archaic linguistic features to give more weight to).

    I know Poles and Lithuanians remained more or less entirely within Roman rite Catholicism, but that the situation is more complicated with Belarussians and Ukrainians. Many Ukrainians under Polish rule became Uniates/Greek Catholics (Orthodox rites but in union with the Pope); did the same thing occur in Belarus? I know there is also a Polish Orthodox Church but I don’t know much about their history (converts to Orthodoxy under Russian rule? or are they actually ethnic Belarussians?)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Glossy
    It's my understanding that Lithuanian is the most archaic living Indo-European language on balance, with all of its features considered. The Baltic branch is the most archaic one, and the Slavic branch is second in that regard. These two IE branches are closer to each other than either of them is to any of the others.

    Lithuania was also the last part of Europe to give up polytheism. This happened in the late 14th century, about a thousand years after Christianity became the majority religion in the Med.

    Lithuania is situated behind the Pripet' marshes of Belarus. That could have insulated it from the general trends. Still, it's right on the Baltic, and most cultural exchange was by sea or by rivers. It's not really clear why, but like Sardinia, Lithuania was one of Europe's backwaters in the past, retaining things that had disappeared elsewhere.
    , @Anon 2
    Polish Orthodox Church still exists in Poland, and
    has about 600,000 adherents. When traveling east
    of Warsaw, you begin to see growing numbers of onion-
    domed churches as you approach the border of Belarus,
    and to many people this represents the region where
    Central Europe turns into Eastern Europe, i.e., Western
    Christendom into Eastern Christendom. Warsaw has
    a beautiful Orthodox church in the Praga district near
    the zoo. I know a Ukrainian young lady in Warsaw, and she
    frequently goes there with her mother. When vacationing
    in northeastern Poland as a child, we'd occasionally go
    to mass at the Orthodox church when for some reason
    we couldn't get to the Catholic mass so it's not like there is
    any kind of hostility between the two churches.

    Re: Lithuania. The most common (male) surnames
    in Lithuania are: Kazlauskas, Jankauskas, and Petrauskas.
    It's sometimes hard for Lithuanians to admit that those
    are simply Lithuanian versions of 3 common Polish surnames:
    Kozlowski, Jankowski, and Piotrowski. Lithuania is now
    trying to think of itself as Nordic, and so they reject the fact
    that the population of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
    (whose border at one point was 50 miles from Moscow!) was
    ethnically mixed. Dostoevski was a good example - his parents
    came from the Pinsk region which for centuries was part of the
    Commonwealth, and Pinsk was in fact in Poland during 1919-1939
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  29. AP says:

    Many Ukrainians under Polish rule became Uniates/Greek Catholics (Orthodox rites but in union with the Pope); did the same thing occur in Belarus?

    Yes. But because all of Belarus came under Russia, the Greek Catholic Church in Belarus was eliminated (unlike the one in Galicia, under Austria).

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    Ah I see. It seems the distinction between Uniate and Orthodox largely came down to politics and who happened to be in charge at the time (i.e. a Catholic or Orthodox power).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  30. Glossy says: • Website
    @jtgw
    Yeah, I imagine the "original Aryan" nonsense comes from statements by some linguists that Lithuanian is the closest modern Indo-European language to Proto-Indo-European. It certainly has many archaic features, but statements like that are rather subjective (since you have to choose which archaic linguistic features to give more weight to).

    I know Poles and Lithuanians remained more or less entirely within Roman rite Catholicism, but that the situation is more complicated with Belarussians and Ukrainians. Many Ukrainians under Polish rule became Uniates/Greek Catholics (Orthodox rites but in union with the Pope); did the same thing occur in Belarus? I know there is also a Polish Orthodox Church but I don't know much about their history (converts to Orthodoxy under Russian rule? or are they actually ethnic Belarussians?)

    It’s my understanding that Lithuanian is the most archaic living Indo-European language on balance, with all of its features considered. The Baltic branch is the most archaic one, and the Slavic branch is second in that regard. These two IE branches are closer to each other than either of them is to any of the others.

    Lithuania was also the last part of Europe to give up polytheism. This happened in the late 14th century, about a thousand years after Christianity became the majority religion in the Med.

    Lithuania is situated behind the Pripet’ marshes of Belarus. That could have insulated it from the general trends. Still, it’s right on the Baltic, and most cultural exchange was by sea or by rivers. It’s not really clear why, but like Sardinia, Lithuania was one of Europe’s backwaters in the past, retaining things that had disappeared elsewhere.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  31. Anon 2 says:
    @jtgw
    Yeah, I imagine the "original Aryan" nonsense comes from statements by some linguists that Lithuanian is the closest modern Indo-European language to Proto-Indo-European. It certainly has many archaic features, but statements like that are rather subjective (since you have to choose which archaic linguistic features to give more weight to).

    I know Poles and Lithuanians remained more or less entirely within Roman rite Catholicism, but that the situation is more complicated with Belarussians and Ukrainians. Many Ukrainians under Polish rule became Uniates/Greek Catholics (Orthodox rites but in union with the Pope); did the same thing occur in Belarus? I know there is also a Polish Orthodox Church but I don't know much about their history (converts to Orthodoxy under Russian rule? or are they actually ethnic Belarussians?)

    Polish Orthodox Church still exists in Poland, and
    has about 600,000 adherents. When traveling east
    of Warsaw, you begin to see growing numbers of onion-
    domed churches as you approach the border of Belarus,
    and to many people this represents the region where
    Central Europe turns into Eastern Europe, i.e., Western
    Christendom into Eastern Christendom. Warsaw has
    a beautiful Orthodox church in the Praga district near
    the zoo. I know a Ukrainian young lady in Warsaw, and she
    frequently goes there with her mother. When vacationing
    in northeastern Poland as a child, we’d occasionally go
    to mass at the Orthodox church when for some reason
    we couldn’t get to the Catholic mass so it’s not like there is
    any kind of hostility between the two churches.

    Re: Lithuania. The most common (male) surnames
    in Lithuania are: Kazlauskas, Jankauskas, and Petrauskas.
    It’s sometimes hard for Lithuanians to admit that those
    are simply Lithuanian versions of 3 common Polish surnames:
    Kozlowski, Jankowski, and Piotrowski. Lithuania is now
    trying to think of itself as Nordic, and so they reject the fact
    that the population of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
    (whose border at one point was 50 miles from Moscow!) was
    ethnically mixed. Dostoevski was a good example – his parents
    came from the Pinsk region which for centuries was part of the
    Commonwealth, and Pinsk was in fact in Poland during 1919-1939

    Read More
    • Replies: @Glossy
    Petrauskas seems like the Christian name Peter, which is of ancient Greek origin, combined with a typical Lithuanian ending. There are lots of people named Kozlov and Kozlovsky in Russia. Since that name comes from the Slavic word for goat, it could have arisen independently in lots of Slavic languages. Don't know how it got into Lithuanian though.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  32. Glossy says: • Website
    @Anon 2
    Polish Orthodox Church still exists in Poland, and
    has about 600,000 adherents. When traveling east
    of Warsaw, you begin to see growing numbers of onion-
    domed churches as you approach the border of Belarus,
    and to many people this represents the region where
    Central Europe turns into Eastern Europe, i.e., Western
    Christendom into Eastern Christendom. Warsaw has
    a beautiful Orthodox church in the Praga district near
    the zoo. I know a Ukrainian young lady in Warsaw, and she
    frequently goes there with her mother. When vacationing
    in northeastern Poland as a child, we'd occasionally go
    to mass at the Orthodox church when for some reason
    we couldn't get to the Catholic mass so it's not like there is
    any kind of hostility between the two churches.

    Re: Lithuania. The most common (male) surnames
    in Lithuania are: Kazlauskas, Jankauskas, and Petrauskas.
    It's sometimes hard for Lithuanians to admit that those
    are simply Lithuanian versions of 3 common Polish surnames:
    Kozlowski, Jankowski, and Piotrowski. Lithuania is now
    trying to think of itself as Nordic, and so they reject the fact
    that the population of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
    (whose border at one point was 50 miles from Moscow!) was
    ethnically mixed. Dostoevski was a good example - his parents
    came from the Pinsk region which for centuries was part of the
    Commonwealth, and Pinsk was in fact in Poland during 1919-1939

    Petrauskas seems like the Christian name Peter, which is of ancient Greek origin, combined with a typical Lithuanian ending. There are lots of people named Kozlov and Kozlovsky in Russia. Since that name comes from the Slavic word for goat, it could have arisen independently in lots of Slavic languages. Don’t know how it got into Lithuanian though.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  33. Anon 2 says:

    The tiny countries that today we call Lithuania
    and Latvia were once part of the vast Polish-Lithuanian
    Commonwealth, and even Estonia belonged to it
    for awhile. There was a lot of genetic mixing in that
    whole area. Polanders, for example, moved into
    today’s Belarus and Lithuania, intermarrying with the
    locals, and the region became heavily polonized, dominated
    by the Polish language and culture. Czesław Miłosz,
    the Polish Nobel laureate, who grew up in that area
    and went to school in Vilnius, wrote a lot about it.
    I recommend his 1959 memoir Native Realm (Rodzinna
    Europa). So the point is, yes the names are definitely
    of Slavic (not Baltic) origin but the chances are their
    ancestry is Polish since the two countries were so heavily
    intertwined (and there is still a large Polish minority in
    Lithuania) for many centuries. Many Lithuanians I’ve known
    have various degrees of fluency in Polish but most at least
    understand Polish. Lithuanian surnames are also fairly common
    in Poland, especially in the northeast

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    There was a lot of genetic mixing in that whole area. Polanders, for example, moved into today’s Belarus and Lithuania, intermarrying with the locals, and the region became heavily polonized, dominated by the Polish language and culture.
     
    This is also true of Ukraine - not only Galicia, but the right bank which extends to the Dnieper River as well as areas further to the East. It was estimated that at the time of partitions 10% of Ukraine's population were Polish. Almost all these Poles intermarried with and assimilated with the local Ukrainians. Peasant settlers from central Poland mixed with local Ukrainian ones, and settlers of petty gentry background working as soldiers and administrators mixed with Cossack officer and local poorer noble families (most such relationships did not end as poorly as did that of the fictional Andriy Bulba). The same Cossacks who rebelled against Poland used Polish as the language of military command, the Orthodox Academy in Kiev used Polish and Latin and languages of instruction, etc.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  34. AP says:
    @Anon 2
    The tiny countries that today we call Lithuania
    and Latvia were once part of the vast Polish-Lithuanian
    Commonwealth, and even Estonia belonged to it
    for awhile. There was a lot of genetic mixing in that
    whole area. Polanders, for example, moved into
    today's Belarus and Lithuania, intermarrying with the
    locals, and the region became heavily polonized, dominated
    by the Polish language and culture. Czesław Miłosz,
    the Polish Nobel laureate, who grew up in that area
    and went to school in Vilnius, wrote a lot about it.
    I recommend his 1959 memoir Native Realm (Rodzinna
    Europa). So the point is, yes the names are definitely
    of Slavic (not Baltic) origin but the chances are their
    ancestry is Polish since the two countries were so heavily
    intertwined (and there is still a large Polish minority in
    Lithuania) for many centuries. Many Lithuanians I've known
    have various degrees of fluency in Polish but most at least
    understand Polish. Lithuanian surnames are also fairly common
    in Poland, especially in the northeast

    There was a lot of genetic mixing in that whole area. Polanders, for example, moved into today’s Belarus and Lithuania, intermarrying with the locals, and the region became heavily polonized, dominated by the Polish language and culture.

    This is also true of Ukraine – not only Galicia, but the right bank which extends to the Dnieper River as well as areas further to the East. It was estimated that at the time of partitions 10% of Ukraine’s population were Polish. Almost all these Poles intermarried with and assimilated with the local Ukrainians. Peasant settlers from central Poland mixed with local Ukrainian ones, and settlers of petty gentry background working as soldiers and administrators mixed with Cossack officer and local poorer noble families (most such relationships did not end as poorly as did that of the fictional Andriy Bulba). The same Cossacks who rebelled against Poland used Polish as the language of military command, the Orthodox Academy in Kiev used Polish and Latin and languages of instruction, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gerard2

    This is also true of Ukraine – not only Galicia, but the right bank which extends to the Dnieper River as well as areas further to the East. It was estimated that at the time of partitions 10% of Ukraine’s population were Polish. Almost all these Poles intermarried with and assimilated with the local Ukrainians. Peasant settlers from central Poland mixed with local Ukrainian ones, and settlers of petty gentry background working as soldiers and administrators mixed with Cossack officer and local poorer noble families (most such relationships did not end as poorly as did that of the fictional Andriy Bulba). The same Cossacks who rebelled against Poland used Polish as the language of military command, the Orthodox Academy in Kiev used Polish and Latin and languages of instruction, etc.
     
    The amusing thing about your stupidity is that any connection you make between Poles and the imaginary race that is "Ukrainians" is swamped by actual connections between Russian and Ukraine (as if intermarriage isn't common between Ukrainians and Russians both sides of the border you dumb prick ). What's 10% of Ukraine and Poland must be about 97% of Russia and Ukraine. Language,mentality,culture ( several non-slavic regions of Russia still have way more similarity in cultural objects and events to Ukraine than Poland),buildings,reading music and television habits,humour,most of the architecture. For all your clueless gibberish about Galicia , think about many other different parts of Ukraine.... and then there's Pridnestrovie ( as if your bollocks wasn't vacuous enough)

    Poland's history has been that is has colossally failed at being Germany or Russia or a combination of the two
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  35. Gerard2 says:
    @AP
    When I lived there I avoided the Americans, seeing them once in awhile at a museum or a show. The closest I got to a social encounter was when a friend threw a party and the guys from the exile showed up. We missed each other and I didn't speak to them, but was told later that their hatred of America was incredible and kind of shocking to the Russians.

    My wife just got back from a visit. She said several stores in Moscow had closed. She went out with a friend to a nice restaurant on a Friday night and it was completely empty, other than them and a small party. So the crisis isn't nothing - though there is no widespread hardship, either.

    M

    y wife just got back from a visit. She said several stores in Moscow had closed. She went out with a friend to a nice restaurant on a Friday night and it was completely empty, other than them and a small party. So the crisis isn’t nothing – though there is no widespread hardship, either.

    BS you fantasist POS troll retard. “closed”? That is more bollocks you idiot. None of that is happening in Moscow.
    “empty” ?apart from the fictional “wife” bit……it has been the quiet period after NY,then Chirstmas afterwards and the -30C weather. Many places still packed out though you dipshit

    Read More
    • Troll: jtgw
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  36. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    There was a lot of genetic mixing in that whole area. Polanders, for example, moved into today’s Belarus and Lithuania, intermarrying with the locals, and the region became heavily polonized, dominated by the Polish language and culture.
     
    This is also true of Ukraine - not only Galicia, but the right bank which extends to the Dnieper River as well as areas further to the East. It was estimated that at the time of partitions 10% of Ukraine's population were Polish. Almost all these Poles intermarried with and assimilated with the local Ukrainians. Peasant settlers from central Poland mixed with local Ukrainian ones, and settlers of petty gentry background working as soldiers and administrators mixed with Cossack officer and local poorer noble families (most such relationships did not end as poorly as did that of the fictional Andriy Bulba). The same Cossacks who rebelled against Poland used Polish as the language of military command, the Orthodox Academy in Kiev used Polish and Latin and languages of instruction, etc.

    This is also true of Ukraine – not only Galicia, but the right bank which extends to the Dnieper River as well as areas further to the East. It was estimated that at the time of partitions 10% of Ukraine’s population were Polish. Almost all these Poles intermarried with and assimilated with the local Ukrainians. Peasant settlers from central Poland mixed with local Ukrainian ones, and settlers of petty gentry background working as soldiers and administrators mixed with Cossack officer and local poorer noble families (most such relationships did not end as poorly as did that of the fictional Andriy Bulba). The same Cossacks who rebelled against Poland used Polish as the language of military command, the Orthodox Academy in Kiev used Polish and Latin and languages of instruction, etc.

    The amusing thing about your stupidity is that any connection you make between Poles and the imaginary race that is “Ukrainians” is swamped by actual connections between Russian and Ukraine (as if intermarriage isn’t common between Ukrainians and Russians both sides of the border you dumb prick ). What’s 10% of Ukraine and Poland must be about 97% of Russia and Ukraine. Language,mentality,culture ( several non-slavic regions of Russia still have way more similarity in cultural objects and events to Ukraine than Poland),buildings,reading music and television habits,humour,most of the architecture. For all your clueless gibberish about Galicia , think about many other different parts of Ukraine…. and then there’s Pridnestrovie ( as if your bollocks wasn’t vacuous enough)

    Poland’s history has been that is has colossally failed at being Germany or Russia or a combination of the two

    Read More
    • Troll: AP
    • Replies: @AP
    Your posting history shows that almost all of your "contributions" have been semi-coherent, abusive and largely fact-less responses to mine. I guess I have an internet "stalker," one with a ~90 IQ :-)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  37. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    This is also true of Ukraine – not only Galicia, but the right bank which extends to the Dnieper River as well as areas further to the East. It was estimated that at the time of partitions 10% of Ukraine’s population were Polish. Almost all these Poles intermarried with and assimilated with the local Ukrainians. Peasant settlers from central Poland mixed with local Ukrainian ones, and settlers of petty gentry background working as soldiers and administrators mixed with Cossack officer and local poorer noble families (most such relationships did not end as poorly as did that of the fictional Andriy Bulba). The same Cossacks who rebelled against Poland used Polish as the language of military command, the Orthodox Academy in Kiev used Polish and Latin and languages of instruction, etc.
     
    The amusing thing about your stupidity is that any connection you make between Poles and the imaginary race that is "Ukrainians" is swamped by actual connections between Russian and Ukraine (as if intermarriage isn't common between Ukrainians and Russians both sides of the border you dumb prick ). What's 10% of Ukraine and Poland must be about 97% of Russia and Ukraine. Language,mentality,culture ( several non-slavic regions of Russia still have way more similarity in cultural objects and events to Ukraine than Poland),buildings,reading music and television habits,humour,most of the architecture. For all your clueless gibberish about Galicia , think about many other different parts of Ukraine.... and then there's Pridnestrovie ( as if your bollocks wasn't vacuous enough)

    Poland's history has been that is has colossally failed at being Germany or Russia or a combination of the two

    Your posting history shows that almost all of your “contributions” have been semi-coherent, abusive and largely fact-less responses to mine. I guess I have an internet “stalker,” one with a ~90 IQ :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gerard2
    err.....I havent posted in months you braindead imbecile. As you know, I reply to plenty of different people...but the purpose of troll dipshits like you is to sideline the intelligent comments on here with your braindead nonsense.....anyway I recall (again) the last time exposing yet more of your lies.....as you are a scumbag.

    But what is stalking is that a braindead sack of faeces like you projecting again. It is almost certain that a retard like you goes around making imbecile posts on numerous pro--Russian sites, easily disprovable...but definitely would never do it on any "pro-Kiev" sites......as there is nothing remotely positive to write about on there you cretin
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  38. jtgw says:
    @AP

    Many Ukrainians under Polish rule became Uniates/Greek Catholics (Orthodox rites but in union with the Pope); did the same thing occur in Belarus?
     
    Yes. But because all of Belarus came under Russia, the Greek Catholic Church in Belarus was eliminated (unlike the one in Galicia, under Austria).

    Ah I see. It seems the distinction between Uniate and Orthodox largely came down to politics and who happened to be in charge at the time (i.e. a Catholic or Orthodox power).

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    According to wiki 80% of the the population of Belarus were Uniate prior to Russian rule. Most of these people, peasants, probably did not see a difference.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  39. Gerard2 says:
    @AP
    Your posting history shows that almost all of your "contributions" have been semi-coherent, abusive and largely fact-less responses to mine. I guess I have an internet "stalker," one with a ~90 IQ :-)

    err…..I havent posted in months you braindead imbecile. As you know, I reply to plenty of different people…but the purpose of troll dipshits like you is to sideline the intelligent comments on here with your braindead nonsense…..anyway I recall (again) the last time exposing yet more of your lies…..as you are a scumbag.

    But what is stalking is that a braindead sack of faeces like you projecting again. It is almost certain that a retard like you goes around making imbecile posts on numerous pro–Russian sites, easily disprovable…but definitely would never do it on any “pro-Kiev” sites……as there is nothing remotely positive to write about on there you cretin

    Read More
    • Troll: jtgw, AP
    • Replies: @AP

    I havent posted in months
     
    You have 9 posts, 7 of which are your silly replies to me.

    I suppose I ought to be disappointed that my posts didn't get inside the head of a more intelligent person.


    I reply to plenty of different people
     
    You replied to one other person (whom you implied was an "idiot.") I suppose that for real simple people like you, "2" counts as "plenty."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  40. AP says:
    @Gerard2
    err.....I havent posted in months you braindead imbecile. As you know, I reply to plenty of different people...but the purpose of troll dipshits like you is to sideline the intelligent comments on here with your braindead nonsense.....anyway I recall (again) the last time exposing yet more of your lies.....as you are a scumbag.

    But what is stalking is that a braindead sack of faeces like you projecting again. It is almost certain that a retard like you goes around making imbecile posts on numerous pro--Russian sites, easily disprovable...but definitely would never do it on any "pro-Kiev" sites......as there is nothing remotely positive to write about on there you cretin

    I havent posted in months

    You have 9 posts, 7 of which are your silly replies to me.

    I suppose I ought to be disappointed that my posts didn’t get inside the head of a more intelligent person.

    I reply to plenty of different people

    You replied to one other person (whom you implied was an “idiot.”) I suppose that for real simple people like you, “2″ counts as “plenty.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gerard2
    errmm.....you must have made about 250 replies to my posts as Gerad and Gerad2 you monotonous cretinous troll vermin.

    This includes, among your lack of knowledge and many lies being too stupid to recognise simple statistics of non-ethnics in the Baltics
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  41. AP says:
    @jtgw
    Ah I see. It seems the distinction between Uniate and Orthodox largely came down to politics and who happened to be in charge at the time (i.e. a Catholic or Orthodox power).

    According to wiki 80% of the the population of Belarus were Uniate prior to Russian rule. Most of these people, peasants, probably did not see a difference.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    Yeah, I can't imagine they cared that much whether the Pope was commemorated in the liturgy or not.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  42. jtgw says:
    @AP
    According to wiki 80% of the the population of Belarus were Uniate prior to Russian rule. Most of these people, peasants, probably did not see a difference.

    Yeah, I can’t imagine they cared that much whether the Pope was commemorated in the liturgy or not.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    Speaking of Belarus and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the latter's traces all over the place - there is the family of Vankovich. They are descended from an East Slavic warrior, Vanko, who was ennobled in the 14th century by a Lithuanian prince.

    Some became Polish-speaking and Roman Catholics. The most famous is the artist who painted the iconic portrait of Mickiewicz:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walenty_Wa%C5%84kowicz

    The family estate is a museum in Minsk:

    http://www.artmuseum.by/eng/filial/vank/about-the-museum

    Others remained Uniates; a branch of them moved to Galicia and mixed with the local Ruthenian Uniates. One of these descendants became a major figure in the (anti-Polish) Ukrainian nationalist movement.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  43. AP says:
    @jtgw
    Yeah, I can't imagine they cared that much whether the Pope was commemorated in the liturgy or not.

    Speaking of Belarus and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the latter’s traces all over the place – there is the family of Vankovich. They are descended from an East Slavic warrior, Vanko, who was ennobled in the 14th century by a Lithuanian prince.

    Some became Polish-speaking and Roman Catholics. The most famous is the artist who painted the iconic portrait of Mickiewicz:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walenty_Wa%C5%84kowicz

    The family estate is a museum in Minsk:

    http://www.artmuseum.by/eng/filial/vank/about-the-museum

    Others remained Uniates; a branch of them moved to Galicia and mixed with the local Ruthenian Uniates. One of these descendants became a major figure in the (anti-Polish) Ukrainian nationalist movement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    AP:

    Just a general comment. I am always amazed (and humbled) by the knowledge of the Commentators on this web site. Your commentary being another example of this.

    Thanks to Ron for making all this possible.
    , @Anon 2
    Yes, it's fascinating to discover the footprints of the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth in many unexpected places,
    and as Belarus appears to be turning again toward Poland
    and toward the EU in general, we'll probably find more in the
    coming years. I myself recently found that I may have some
    distant Lithuanian ancestry. The book, "The reconstruction of
    Nations - Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus 1569-1999" (2003)
    by Timothy Snyder, Yale University Press, has a lot of interesting
    information. The fall of the Soviet Union has at long last opened
    numerous archives in the FSU, and has been a boon to historians.
    But, in general, the entire area of Central and Eastern Europe remains
    terra incognita historically speaking, at least compared to England
    and France
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  44. […] (Canada): Paul Robinson, One Thing Trump is Right About. 17. The Unz Review: Anatoly Karlin, The Trumpen King’s Coronation from Moscow. 18. The Economist: Na zdorovie, Donald. Moscow’s power players toast President Trump. […]

    Read More
  45. Dan Hayes says:
    @AP
    Speaking of Belarus and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the latter's traces all over the place - there is the family of Vankovich. They are descended from an East Slavic warrior, Vanko, who was ennobled in the 14th century by a Lithuanian prince.

    Some became Polish-speaking and Roman Catholics. The most famous is the artist who painted the iconic portrait of Mickiewicz:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walenty_Wa%C5%84kowicz

    The family estate is a museum in Minsk:

    http://www.artmuseum.by/eng/filial/vank/about-the-museum

    Others remained Uniates; a branch of them moved to Galicia and mixed with the local Ruthenian Uniates. One of these descendants became a major figure in the (anti-Polish) Ukrainian nationalist movement.

    AP:

    Just a general comment. I am always amazed (and humbled) by the knowledge of the Commentators on this web site. Your commentary being another example of this.

    Thanks to Ron for making all this possible.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    Thanks!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  46. Anon 2 says:
    @AP
    Speaking of Belarus and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the latter's traces all over the place - there is the family of Vankovich. They are descended from an East Slavic warrior, Vanko, who was ennobled in the 14th century by a Lithuanian prince.

    Some became Polish-speaking and Roman Catholics. The most famous is the artist who painted the iconic portrait of Mickiewicz:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walenty_Wa%C5%84kowicz

    The family estate is a museum in Minsk:

    http://www.artmuseum.by/eng/filial/vank/about-the-museum

    Others remained Uniates; a branch of them moved to Galicia and mixed with the local Ruthenian Uniates. One of these descendants became a major figure in the (anti-Polish) Ukrainian nationalist movement.

    Yes, it’s fascinating to discover the footprints of the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth in many unexpected places,
    and as Belarus appears to be turning again toward Poland
    and toward the EU in general, we’ll probably find more in the
    coming years. I myself recently found that I may have some
    distant Lithuanian ancestry. The book, “The reconstruction of
    Nations – Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus 1569-1999″ (2003)
    by Timothy Snyder, Yale University Press, has a lot of interesting
    information. The fall of the Soviet Union has at long last opened
    numerous archives in the FSU, and has been a boon to historians.
    But, in general, the entire area of Central and Eastern Europe remains
    terra incognita historically speaking, at least compared to England
    and France

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  47. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    I havent posted in months
     
    You have 9 posts, 7 of which are your silly replies to me.

    I suppose I ought to be disappointed that my posts didn't get inside the head of a more intelligent person.


    I reply to plenty of different people
     
    You replied to one other person (whom you implied was an "idiot.") I suppose that for real simple people like you, "2" counts as "plenty."

    errmm…..you must have made about 250 replies to my posts as Gerad and Gerad2 you monotonous cretinous troll vermin.

    This includes, among your lack of knowledge and many lies being too stupid to recognise simple statistics of non-ethnics in the Baltics

    Read More
    • Troll: AP, Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @AP

    errmm…..you must have made about 250 replies to my posts as Gerad and Gerad2
     
    No, 12% of my posts were not replies to yours. You aren't that important.

    But 80% of Gerard2's comments are replies to mine (I don't keep track of your other sockpuppets).

    Again, I'm a little offended that I didn't attract a more intelligent or informed person as a stalker.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  48. AP says:
    @Gerard2
    errmm.....you must have made about 250 replies to my posts as Gerad and Gerad2 you monotonous cretinous troll vermin.

    This includes, among your lack of knowledge and many lies being too stupid to recognise simple statistics of non-ethnics in the Baltics

    errmm…..you must have made about 250 replies to my posts as Gerad and Gerad2

    No, 12% of my posts were not replies to yours. You aren’t that important.

    But 80% of Gerard2′s comments are replies to mine (I don’t keep track of your other sockpuppets).

    Again, I’m a little offended that I didn’t attract a more intelligent or informed person as a stalker.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  49. AP says:
    @Dan Hayes
    AP:

    Just a general comment. I am always amazed (and humbled) by the knowledge of the Commentators on this web site. Your commentary being another example of this.

    Thanks to Ron for making all this possible.

    Thanks!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  50. hcl says:

    According to Alex Jones (who has spoken to Trump in private, and whose agenda Trump is exactly carrying out), the Trump Plan is for an “American Millennium”. Not an American Century, but an American Millennium. Where Russia fits in this, is not clear.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    I shall follow the God-Emperor for His thousand year glorious reign.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  51. @hcl
    According to Alex Jones (who has spoken to Trump in private, and whose agenda Trump is exactly carrying out), the Trump Plan is for an "American Millennium". Not an American Century, but an American Millennium. Where Russia fits in this, is not clear.

    I shall follow the God-Emperor for His thousand year glorious reign.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Anatoly Karlin Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The “war hero” candidate buried information about POWs left behind in Vietnam.
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
The evidence is clear — but often ignored
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?
A simple remedy for income stagnation