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Open Thread 47
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postindustrialscape

You will have to excuse the paucity of posting this month. Many things going on. But I hope to get the Romania post out today.

I predicted that Russia would win against Saudi Arabia and Egypt (both happened), but would lose against Uruguay. We’ll see what happens tomorrow.

Featured

* Turkey Presidential & legislative elections. My take is that Erdogan will be just shy of 50% in the first round.

  • AKP/Erdogan seem to usually underperform polls.
  • The Turkish economy is not doing so well (inflation is at 12%), while main rival Muharrem İnce is getting huge turnout (millions) at his rallies.
  • Many Turks are not happy with the Syrian refugees, esp. with Erdogan giving them citizenship.

* /ourguy/ Salvini is going from strength to strength: “I’ve asked for a census of the Roma community living in Italy. The irregular ones will be deported. However, we’ll have to keep” in Italy “the Romas with Italian citizenship, unfortunately.”

* Ian Hogarth – AI Nationalism

The central prediction I want to make and defend in this post is that continued rapid progress in machine learning will drive the emergence of a new kind of geopolitics; I have been calling it AI Nationalism. Machine learning is an omni-use technology that will come to touch all sectors and parts of society. The transformation of both the economy and the military by machine learning will create instability at the national and international level forcing governments to act. AI policy will become the single most important area of government policy. An accelerated arms race will emerge between key countries and we will see increased protectionist state action to support national champions, block takeovers by foreign firms and attract talent… This arms race will potentially speed up the pace of AI development and shorten the timescale for getting to AGI.

* Jared Taylor wins a partial victory against Twitter for banning his account. This sets an encouraging precedent.

* Conversely, ACLU has formally thrown in the towel on its prior commitment to absolute freedom of speech

The American Civil Liberties Union has explicitly endorsed the view that free speech can harm “marginalized” groups by undermining their civil rights. “Speech that denigrates such groups can inflict serious harms and is intended to and often will impede progress toward equality,” the ACLU declares in new guidelines governing case selection and “Conflicts Between Competing Values or Priorities.”

This was probably inevitable given current demographic (white decline) and cultural (SJWs) trends.

***

Russia

* Announcement of start in gradual increase of pension age to 65 years (from current 55 for women/60 for women) announced just after Russia’s 5:0 victory over Saudi Arabia. Much wailing & gnashing of teeth, but with life expectancy at 73 years and expected to continue rising, this was inevitable.

* Industrial growth getting revised upwards, suggests recovery from recession is stronger than first thought.

* Washington Post: Is Vladimir Putin’s Russia in decline? We figured out how to measure ‘national power.’

Conclusion: No, it isn’t. But base year is 2000, when Russia was at its all time nadir. It would be more interesting to do the analysis for, say, 2008-2018.

* Heavy South Korean tourism in Vladivostok [in Russian]. h/t Dmitry

* For anyone interested: Igor Strelkov makes a detailed post about his family history [in Russian]

***

World

* East European attitudes towards Russia and the US:

* Hungary passes its Stop Soros bill

* Northern Ireland attitudes towards reunification:

poll-north-ireland

* NBF: China’s future railgun Navy 2025 predicted by US Intelligence

* Chinese propaganda:

* There are now more births in North Korea than in South Korea, despite the latter having twice the former’s population.

* Yet another poll with stark Sweden Yes:

poll-europe-anti-immigration

***

Science & Culture

* Craig Willy: Europe’s tech race – trying to keep pace with US and China

* RBTH: 18 Russian Empire posters that will force you to buy an airplane (or powder)

* Cyberpunk 2077 highlights (h/t Polish Perspective):

* Abel L Peirson V, E Meltem Tolunay (2018) – Dank Learning: Generating Memes Using Deep Neural Networks

* OkCupid: Worth of human lives. (Scandis spotted. Gamblers, too).

map-poll-usa-human-lives-worth

* RIP Koko

***

Powerful Takes

* This is funny (and true). h/t Emil

not-real-socialism

* Intermittent fasting:

 
• Category: Miscellaneous • Tags: AI, Freedom of Speech, Italy, Open Thread, Turkey 
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  1. Mr. Hack says:

    [MORE]

    For anyone interested: Igor Strelkov makes a detailed post about his family history [in Russian]

    Here’s how the Crimean referendum was first hatched by no other than Igor Strelkov, the Robin Hood of Russian Triunists:

    In an interview on 22 January 2015 Igor Girkin, one of the major “Russian self-defence” commanders in 2014 Crimean crisis, explained that the “overwhelming national support for the self-defence” as portrayed by the Russian media was fiction, and they actually had to “forcibly drive the deputies to vote [to join Russia]“. Under his command, the rebels “collected” the deputies into the chambers to vote. A majority of the law enforcement, administration and army did not support the “self-defence” (one notable exception being Berkut) and only the presence of regular Russian army in Crimea “made the whole thing work”.[33][34] Girkin took part in commanding Russian troops in their capture of the Simferopol airport.[35]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Strelkov_(officer)

    Pretty sick I would say.

  2. Beckow says:

    In Poland USA 70% positive – Russia only 24%; in Serbia Russia 90%, USA 24%. In Hungary USA 45%, Russia 38%.

    Seems about right. The differences in attitudes are quite dramatic. Czech Republic and Slovakia are roughly reversed, with Czechs about 20% more pro-USA and less pro-Russia than Slovaks. This has held since at least WWII and explains the country split in 1993.

    There are also strong within country variances: capitol cities are more pro-West (US) than provinces. Prague is crazily pro-US, rest of the country is evenly split.

    With these attitudes, only Poland could be relied on to be fully behind any attack on Russia. Even Romania, Hungary, Croatia are iffy, and they willingly participated in the WWII attack. I suspect we will get more devilish acts and more propaganda to fix the numbers. And yet, after 20+ years of in-house propaganda domination, if West can only count on the hapless Poles, what was the money spent on? And Poles were already itching to fight Russia, I am not sure all that propaganda has increased it by much.

    I sometimes think it is idiots from Washington, Berlin, Brussels trying to noisily manipulate the local morons, with most people standing aside. How far can they take this madness?

  3. This is ultimately what we are fighting against. Not for our nations per se, but against LIES.

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  4. Since this is an OPEN THREAD I can discuss one of my hobbies: blades.

    This hobby is not a hit with you all since no one responded to my comment about Victorinix Fibrox knives.

    But perhaps one of you will like this and improve your life as a result.

    In my super secret elite level messageboard which has operated now for 16 years with the same members we have a Secret Santa group. I chose to specialize in giving people high-end knives.

    I recently purchased a Spyderco folding knife with a 3.45″ (Euros: 88mm) blade made of ZDP-189 steel with a textured kydex case in British Racing Green. ZDP-189 is a specialty steel produced by the Hitachi corporation of Japan which is a so-called “high speed stainless powder steel”. It has a remarkable 3% carbon content and is the best steel available at any price for knives.

    I’ve been daily carrying this knife now for two weeks, and I am immensely satisfied with it. It is so sharp out of the box that it can cleanly cut neatly through paper with no effort.

    I order knives through the Knife Center, which I’ve been happily doing business with for the past three years: https://www.knifecenter.com/item/SP90PGRE2

    Highly recommend to all of you. Buy it!

  5. Additionally I just ordered some Gucci horsebit crocodile skin loafers.

    https://www.gucci.com/us/en/pr/men/mens-shoes/mens-moccasins-loafers/1953-horsebit-crocodile-loafer-p-307929EC2001000?position=49&listName=PGUS4Cols&categoryPath=Men/Mens-Shoes/Mens-Moccasins-Loafers

    There is now no turning back. I have crossed the Rubicon. My life is forever changed.

    Looking forward to visiting India in September and informing people that my shoes cost more than their annual wages.

  6. Matra says:

    Northern Ireland attitudes towards reunification

    Different results from a couple of recent polls including this one from Belfast’s Queen’s University

    16. Our attitude survey reveals that 21% of the entire population would vote in favour
    of a united Ireland in a referendum, and 50% would vote to remain in the UK (others
    are ‘don’t knows’ or would not vote).
    17. Catholic opinion is split: 42% of Catholics would vote for a united Ireland; 21% to
    stay in the UK; and the rest are ‘don’t knows’ or ‘would not vote’. However, Catholic
    support is strongly conditional upon the outcome of the negotiations between the
    UK and the EU-27 and on economic expectations.
    a. Only 28% of Catholics would vote for a united Ireland if the UK changed its mind
    and remained a full member of the EU. However, 53% of Catholics would vote
    for a united Ireland if there was a ‘hard’ exit in which all of the UK left the
    customs union and single market.

  7. Mr. Hack says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    There is now no turning back. I have crossed the Rubicon. My life is forever changed.

    Looking forward to visiting India in September and informing people that my shoes cost more than their annual wages.

    Here you go brother, enjoy the view from the other side:

  8. 30,000 Syrians getting citizenship and voting for the Sultan probably doesn’t make up for all the Turks he pisses off by having so many Syrians in Turkey.

    I thought the point of setting up the jihadist zone in North-Western Syria was to get the Syrians out of Turkey and neutralise the Kurds? Then again Erdoğan is an Islamist so he is perhaps not as clear-headed as Turkish nationalists.

    • Replies: @g2k
    , @Mitleser
  9. I always found it sad that neither Koko, nor her human “mother” were able to have children of their own.

    RIP South Korea. Should have submitted to Best Korea when you had the chance.

  10. g2k says:
    @Hyperborean

    True. Anecdotally, I know several Erdogan supporters who aren’t happy about the number of syrians in the country. But why the CHP? Perhaps I’m missing something here, but going from Erdogan to neoliberalism.txt will hardly help the situation.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Rosie
  11. gate666 says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    what does that even mean.

    • Replies: @iffen
  12. @g2k

    But why the CHP? Perhaps I’m missing something here, but going from Erdogan to neoliberalism.txt will hardly help the situation.

    Aren’t the CHP the social Democrats now? I don’t think they are very nationalistic any longer.

    I was thinking about the MHP, although they are not a very good opposition force nowadays…

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  13. @Thorfinnsson

    Your advice posts are always appreciated.

    Bonanza has already materially improved the lives of a few of my friends. And I did manage to find Greek olive oil a few days ago.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
  14. @Thorfinnsson

    Looking forward to visiting India in September and informing people that my shoes cost more than their annual wages.

    There is a Jewish joke.

    Kohn meets the famously wealthy and avaricious Grün in Budapest, and notices how shabby his clothes are. He asks him: “Why are you wearing these rags? You could easily afford good tailored suits.” “Who cares? No one knows me here anyway.”

    Next week they meet in Kisvárda (Nowhereville in Eastern Hungary, was heavily Jewish before the war), and Grün is wearing the exact same worn-out shabby clothes. “Why are you still wearing these?” “Who cares? Everyone knows me here anyway.”

    • LOL: Rosie
  15. @Beckow

    Even Romania, Hungary, Croatia are iffy, and they willingly participated in the WWII attack.

    Why did you leave out Slovakia?

    Romanians were fighting for territories occupied by the USSR. Hungarians fought because they were afraid that if they didn’t join, the Germans would roll back all the territorial gains they made in the previous few years. They were also hoping to maybe gain some more, but explicitly weren’t interested in any areas of the USSR or Poland or any country or area not belonging to the Hungarian crown in 1900. Slovakia and Croatia were hoping to keep their independence, and either were hoping for territorial expansion or hoping to keep what they had.

    The soldiers weren’t very enthusiastic to fight deep inside of Russia in any of these countries, and they were hoping for the USSR to just collapse or the Germans to fight it out.

  16. melanf says:

    In addition to news from Russia

  17. Mikhail says: • Website
    @reiner Tor

    Romanians were fighting for territories occupied by the USSR.

    Moldova’s territory had been part of the Russian Empire, with the area of Pridnestrovie (Transnistira and closely related spellings) pro-Russian and part of the Russian Empire as well, in addition to being with the USSR since its inception.

    Even if pre-WW II era Romania had no claims on Soviet held territory, it still would’ve probably carried on in the manner of Hungary, Slovakia and (if I’m not mistaken) Croatia, unlike Nazi allied Bulgaria, which made it a point to not declare war on the USSR.

    Of the Nazi allies on the Eastern Front, the Italians had a reputation for especially not wanting to be there – something which contributed to Mussolini’s downfall.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  18. DNC says:

    Peter Frost made a post on the paper showing declining IQ in Norway that Sailer tackled a few weeks ago:

    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2018/06/why-is-iq-declining-in-norway.html

    Tldr:

    At first sight, this collection of registers seems to be a gold mine of information. Unfortunately, the quality of the information has suffered from a social trend that has been stronger in Scandinavia than elsewhere in the West, i.e., the redefinition of the family. As a result, the word “father” no longer has a consistent meaning. In some cases, such as birth records, it usually means the biological father—the man who provided half of the child’s genetic makeup. In other cases, such as the family register, it means the man who provides the family with at least some economic support. Increasingly, the two roles are no longer played by the same person.

  19. @Mikhail

    Moldova’s territory had been part of the Russian Empire

    For roughly a century. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think it had belonged to the Golden Horde for longer than that.

    unlike Nazi allied Bulgaria, which made it a point to not declare war on the USSR.

    Germany asked Bulgaria to represent its interests in the USSR for the duration of hostilities. So unlike Hungary, Slovakia or Croatia, the Nazis didn’t even expect them to declare war.

    Bulgaria was liberated from Ottoman rule by the Russians. It also has a similar religion and even the language is related. The same is not true of Hungary (in fact, the only times Russian troops were in Hungary in 1849 and 1914, they were enemies), and at least most of these were untrue of Slovakia or Romania or Croatia.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
  20. I looked up Romania on wikipedia, where i found an article on the demographics of Romania. There i saw one group called “Lipovans”. The Lipovans are a Russian Old Believer denomination centered mostly around the Danube delta. Lipovans also live in Ukraine, Moldova and Bulgaria.

    The wikipedia says that there are around 35 thousand Lipovans in Romania.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipovans

    On the other hand a Russky Mir artivle says that there are 105 thousand Lipovans in Romania

    https://russkiymir.ru/en/publications/186501/

    This article also mentions that the population estimate of Lipovans in Romania varies between 35-100 thousand.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/7571310/Saving-the-souls-of-Russias-exiled-Lipovans.html

    Later i saw that the numbers of gypsises in many countries varies wildly. Turkey, Slovakia and Ukraine have wildy different lowest and highest estimate of the Roma population. In Ukraine the population estimate of the number of Romas varies from 47 thousand to 400 thousand.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

    I wonder if it is common in Eastern and Central European countries to exaggerate population sizes? Exxagerate as in claiming that some groups are either more or less numerical than their real numbers.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @reiner Tor
    , @MK
  21. DFH says:

    I didn’t realise that support for leaving the UK had increased so much since Brexit. I think previously it was hovering around only 30-40% in favour of leaving.

  22. @Rattus Norwegius

    Gypsies (why can’t iPhone learn this word?) are very difficult to count, because most of them insist to the census takers that they are Hungarian, Slovak, etc. The census takers are forbidden to write down their own impressions, which would be more accurate than what the Gypsies themselves say.

  23. @Rattus Norwegius

    It’s similar to some extent with other ethnic minorities. Remember that in that part of the world people were often killed, deported, or persecuted based on ethnicity within living memory.

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
  24. I will be blocking out 3 weeks of me time for Cyberpunk 2077. Witcher 3 is probably the single best game I have ever played.

  25. Mitleser says:
    @Hyperborean

    Much more than 30k.

    No official figures are available, as the government remains tight-lipped on an issue that is prone to political polemic and popular backlash. The Interior Ministry offers various statistics on the refugees on its website, but no figures on naturalized Syrians. How many Syrians have become eligible to vote in the June 24 elections is also unclear. The only official statement so far has come from former Deputy Prime Minister Veysi Kaynak, who said in February 2017 that 80,000 Syrians would receive citizenship after the constitutional referendum in April that year. Erdogan’s latest remarks suggest that the figure will increase.

    https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2018/06/turkey-elections-fate-syrian-refugees-hot-topic.html

    Syrians are not the only ones who get citizenship from the AKP government in order to boost the loyal population.

    The preferred destination for Meskhetians was Turkey. With the help of the Turkish state, 150 families were settled at Igdir near the Russian border in the early 1990s, but plans to settle others in batches of 500 were soon forgotten. Nevertheless, Meskhetians kept coming of their own accord. Now there are 100,000 to 200,000 Meskhetians living in Turkish provinces, including Bursa, Antalya, Izmir, Aydin, Balikesir, Istanbul and Canakkale. Globally, Meskhetians total 450,000 to 500,000, including about 100,000 in Russia, 70,000 in Kazakhstan and 40,000 in Uzbekistan.

    Meskhetians generally have been considered “natural Turks,” but only those who completed the necessary formalities could become citizens after waiting five years. In recent years, Turkey had been giving citizenship only to Syrian refugees; however, at the end of 2017, Turkey began granting citizenship to Meskhetians. This represented a policy shift away from “Turkish elements in the former Ottoman Empire territories should remain where they are to avoid weakening the spheres of influence for Turkey.”

    https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2018/06/turkey-citizenship-pleases-meskhetian-turks-upsets-kurds.html

  26. Mitleser says:
    @Hyperborean

    MHP is no longer opposition.
    Nationalist Turkish opposition is the Good party.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  27. user_s says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I have been looking for a carry knife for a while but have been a little overwhelmed by the options. That and not really even knowing what I am looking for. Will probably buy one.

    BTW, have you ever heard of Jay Butler? Pretty descent loafers given the price.

    https://jaybutler.com/

  28. @reiner Tor

    the Nazis didn’t even expect them to declare war.

    Not true. We were repeatedly asked to send troops and our Tsar Boris III declined each time, his last decline being the reason he was poisoned by Hitler.

    In the summer of 1942 when Ribbentrop asked him to send troops to the Eastern Front, our Tsar said this:
    “My people fight only on the Balkans where we have our ethnic lands, they can’t fight on other fronts. If I send my troops to the Volga, they will all join the Russians, everyone including the orchestra”

  29. iffen says:
    @gate666

    what does that even mean.

    It means that Dan thinks females are in harmony with the cosmic karma when they produce offspring.

    In the not too distant future expressing such views will be sufficient to get Dan sent to re-education camp where he will be instructed in rightthink by ugly, fat, tattoed lesbians for 20 hours each day. :)

  30. Mitleser says:

    What is your stance on the removal of the licence/accreditation of the British-linked Moscow School of Social and Economic Sciences?

    Kudrin complains.

  31. Mitleser says:

    How is that supposed to work?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  32. @Mitleser

    Theoretically: Probably fines, losing voting rights, less money from the EU budget.

    Practically: It won’t, which is why everyone will forget he said that a few weeks later just like all his other EU reform proposals.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  33. @reiner Tor

    Minorities that claim to be part of the majority may have assimilated. This means that it may not be usefull to count a person as a ethnic minority if the person identify as part of the “national” population.

    Could not states count the ethnicity of their citizens based on personal identification numbers and previous censuses that have established the ethnicity of the ancestors of present day citizens?

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/minorities-in-turkey-tagged-by-race-codes-official-document-reveals-51849

    - An official document penned by the Istanbul Provincial Education Directorate has surfaced, revealing that Turkey’s population administration system has been recording citizens who have Armenian, Jewish or Anatolian Greek (Rum) origins with secret “race codes.”
    - “Since 1923, identity registration certificates have a secret ‘race code,’” the document added.
    - An official from the population administration told daily Radikal that the practice was being conducted “to allow minority groups use their rights stemming the Lausanne Treaty,” signed between Turkey and Western countries, which led to the establishment of the modern Turkish Republic.
    - As part of the practice, Greeks were coded 1, Armenians were coded 2, and Jews were coded 3. Other minorities or groups are not coded, the official told daily Radikal.
    - “If there is such a thing going on, it is a big disaster. The state illegally profiling its own citizens based on ethnicity and religion, and doing this secretly, is a big catastrophe,” Tan said.

    Is it safe to assume that not many countries have a system of categorization similar to what Hurriyetdailynews describes?

  34. @Hyperborean

    Merkel seems to be willing to support some of his EU proposals because she wants his support in the asylum issue. I suppose that’s the reason for Macron’s hard line, he thinks he can get German cooperation for his vision of the EU by helping Merkel to save her chancellorship. Quite hypocritical of course since France hasn’t taken that many “refugees” itself (despite being very involved in the dubious Mideast mess, supporting attempts at overthrowing Assad’s regime and now apparently also having special forces in Yemen).

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  35. bb. says:
    @reiner Tor

    well as you say, even back than, the soldiers weren’t very keen on fighting in Russia. The defection rate among Slovaks was pretty high. During the war it became obvious they couldn’t be trusted, so were relegated to do military policing.
    From what I can say, it’s not much better these days. Most of the silovikis(police, military) in Slovakia I know are pretty enthusiastically pro-Russian. The Slovak National Party (coalition member) are mostly pro-Russian. The core of the senor diplomatic staff are also pro-Russian but they are old school and I started to notice generational change there(MoFA), with the youngsters being full bent-over EU/NATO cucks.

  36. Anonymous[842] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Liaisons with Indian bodybuilders?

  37. @German_reader

    I don’t doubt that Merkel is willing but I doubt Merkel is able to give that support in any significant way, she is probably too weak now to do anything significant. It’s been months (?) now and all they have are proposals, if they were more serious I think there would have been more concrete moves by now.

  38. Mitleser says:

    I don’t doubt that Merkel is willing but I doubt Merkel is able to give that support in any significant way

    She needs a “European solution”.
    And for that she is willing to pay.

    It was the same during the recent coalition negotiations with the SPD.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  39. @Mitleser

    Interesting, given that Macron is generally seen as pro-Southern on economic matters, won’t the German establishment be displeased?

    To be honest, I am surprised that Merkel hasn’t been finished already given this particularly weak-willed personalistic leadership style she has exhibited recently.

    I think in other countries she would have been off the scene already. Perhaps there are still too many loons who agree with her?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Mitleser
  40. @Hyperborean

    I think in other countries she would have been off the scene already. Perhaps there are still too many loons who agree with her?

    No doubt about that, in any other country she probably would have been removed already in 2016.
    But yes, there are too many loons who agree with her, if anything the German left is even more extreme in its mania for open borders and European integration.
    And the CDU is just pathetic, a party of incompetent lickspittles who have created a really bizarre personality cult about Merkel. Also very authoritarian and in many ways now quite close to the Greens.
    Remains to be seen what will come out of the current CDU-CSU confrontation. I don’t trust the CSU, but this time it actually seems to be serious.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
  41. Mitleser says:
    @Hyperborean

    Interesting, given that Macron is generally seen as pro-Southern on economic matters, won’t the German establishment be displeased?

    Macron is not pro-Southern. He wants to turn (economic) France into Germany 2.0.
    The German establishment is split, some in CDU/CSU and FDP would be displeased, others in SPD and Greens like Maas, minister for foreign affairs support Macron.

  42. @Thorfinnsson

    So which side do you take in that debate? Are you green with misanthropy, like Nevada, or red with altruism, like Minnesota?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Thorfinnsson
  43. Mr. Hack says:
    @Cagey Beast

    He’s busy planning several different methods to inflict injury (with his brand new knife?) upon the poor Indians that he’ll be insulting during his upcoming trip to India. :-)

    • LOL: Thorfinnsson
  44. Erdogan is at 59% with 19% of the ballots counted.

    Is it the conservative/rural areas that tend to get counted first? Because if not, there was very likely large-scale fraud.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  45. @Mitleser

    I didn’t know about the split before.

    I suppose the nationalists could do a lot worse than Meral Akşener.

  46. @Anatoly Karlin

    Although it doesn’t necessarily exclude fraud, it seems like a regular pattern of Turkish elections:

  47. Anon 2 says:

    Apparently some Russians are using Google Street View to see how people
    in neighboring countries live. Not surprisingly, their curiosity is focused on
    Poland.

    For example, “Comparison Polish and Russian Villages,” posted on YouTube
    by Hot Russia (in Russian), essentially asks the question “why don’t Russian
    villages look as affluent and well kept up as Polish villages?” They specifically
    focus on two villages, one near Smolensk and one near Bielsko Biala in southern
    Poland. Now it’s been widely reported in the U.S. press that the villages in northwestern
    Russia are losing population, most of the people left are old, and more are dying
    than being born. So perhaps that’s part of the reason.

    I myself was surprised by the number of high-rise apartment towers being built in
    the outlying regions of Moscow. For example, visit Yuzhnoye Butovo (27 km southeast
    of central Moscow, 45 min by subway) – by the way, the site of the Great Purge of
    1937-8. You’ll be amazed at the amount of construction going on even today, I’m not
    quite sure why. Is it due to the khrushchevkas being demolished or because Moscow
    continues to attract residents from the countryside or both?

    Or might it be that the autocracy in Russia means very specifically that
    the Moscow city-state sucks resources out of the rest of Russia so that villages and
    the Siberian cities (famously in a state of disrepair) are starved for investment money?
    Some of my ancestors, although Polish, lived in Kiev and probably Moscow as well,
    and certainly worked throughout Russia, so I find these questions interesting.

  48. Mitleser says:

    Or might it be that the autocracy in Russia means very specifically that
    the Moscow city-state sucks resources out of the rest of Russia so that villages and
    the Siberian cities (famously in a state of disrepair) are starved for investment money?

    Moscow the city gives away 45% of its tax revenue to the center, which is only 20th percentage wise out of ~85 regions, but would certainly translate into the highest net contribution by far given (1) its economic preponderance and (2) the fact that in percentage terms, it also gets the fewest transfers from the federal center, which constitute only 3% of its own spending.

    http://www.profile.ru/economics/item/102059-semero-s-soshkoj-semdesyat-s-lozhkoj

    (In contrast, for instance, 80% of the Chechen/Ingush local budget consists of transfers from outside).

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/navalnys-program/#comment-1824742

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  49. melanf says:
    @Anon 2

    Now it’s been widely reported in the U.S. press that the villages in northwestern
    Russia are losing population, most of the people left are old, and more are dying
    than being born.

    What a touching concern from the USA. About urbanization in the United States apparently do not know.

  50. @Cagey Beast

    There’s no debate to be had. The idea that all humans are of equal worth is disproven by observable reality. People are not equal, and we need a political system which recognizes that.

    • Replies: @iffen
  51. Anon 2 says:
    @Beckow

    Poland doesn’t have the slightest interest in attacking Russia. Is that what
    Slovaks like you wish for? I’ve known a number of Slovaks, and for the most
    part they are sober, rational people.

    Poland, the Baltics, Finland, Sweden, and Ukraine, in other words, all of Russia’s
    neighbors, deeply distrust, not so much ordinary Russians but the Russian
    government. Slovakia, Hungary or Germany, not being Russia’s neighbors,
    have fewer reasons to distrust Russia. This is perfectly rational, based as it is
    on the last 300 years of Russian history – specifically on the fact that Russia
    has never been a democracy, and being autocratic means it’s not really
    responsive to the will of the people (of course, Germany, France, and Britain are
    no longer reponsive to the will of the people when it comes to immigration
    but that’s another story). I personally trust Russia a little bit more now that
    it’s finally ruled by Russians, and not by foreigners like in the previous 200
    years, but it’s still subject to the whims of its autocratic rulers like Putin.

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
    , @Beckow
  52. @Anatoly Karlin

    You can so sometimes find good oil at church shops, imported from monasteries in Greece.

  53. @German_reader

    Diana Johnstone recently wrote about in-fighting in Die Linke about immigration. What do you make of that?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  54. @Anon 2

    Your post contains too many talking points of the official Western propaganda (e.g. Guardian). Next time try to be more original and a bit more subtle.

  55. I noticed some noise in the Hungarian online press about alleged doping among Russian footballers.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  56. @Daniel Chieh

    That is sad. I thought that at some point Koko had found a man, so to speak, but apparently it didn’t go anywhere.

    In other news, I’m just back from a conference in a certain vibrant North American city where they celebrate “Pride month”.

    Where do I sign up for NRx?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Daniel Chieh
  57. Anon 2 says:
    @Mitleser

    But most of the Russian oil and gas comes from western Siberia.
    Isn’t it logical that the oil and gas largesse should benefit Siberia
    first, and not Moscow? Travelers around Russia widely report that,
    other than the Moscow region and possibly SPB, much of Russia
    looks like it’s starved for investment money, with possibly too
    much going into the military and the space program at the expense
    of the lives of ordinary Russians.

  58. @The Big Red Scary

    I wrote a comment under that article. It’s fantasy imo to believe that there’ll be any moves to more restrictive immigration policies by the German left, they’re too fanatically committed to their open borderism and “antifascism”. Wagenknecht’s criticism of open borders policies is pretty tame, but even for that she’s been heavily criticized by many of her party colleagues as a crypto-nationalist. If she does indeed try to start a movement of her own, I don’t think it will gain much traction.
    The LINKE is chock-full of people with really extreme views, at their recent party congress they seriously came out in favour of such lunatic ideas as a “right to global freedom of movement”. They’re also involved with all manner of “antiracist” and “antifascist” initiatives, some of whom have now started to adopt US-style race discourse about “people of color” and “white privilege”. These people regard open borders as a part of an anticapitalist struggle (because “we”, rich white Northerners, are exploiting the global South), and want all resources of the state mobilized against “fascists”. Obviously that’s a programme that appeals to a certain kind of urban far left segment, but it’s probably going to cost the LINKE very dearly in state elections in the former East Germany, where in some places like Cottbus there has been serious violence between “refugees” and Germans (violence that seems to have been initiated mostly by “refugees”, which even msm media can’t cover up completely anymore).
    I know a lot of people on the right hope that somewhere there are “decent commies” who will come to their senses and drop their support for open borderism; but imo that’s an illusion. The left in Germany and Europe is irredeemable and needs to be marginalized and stripped of all its influence.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  59. @Thorfinnsson

    Interesting.

    Now I have a question: it is my understanding that in most US states (with the exception of the hopelessly liberal ones like CA) one can relatively easily obtain a CCW permit. However it is also my understanding that this works only for firearms — not knives. Is that correct?

    Another way to ask the question is the following: does the 2nd Amendment apply to blades? For instance one could legally carry a long rifle with its ammunition but not the assorted bayonet. This seems a bit crazy.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  60. Mitleser says:
    @Anon 2

    Oil/Gas-rich northern West Siberia is very wealthy despite all the money they sent to the federal government.

    Capital of the KMAO

    https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4606/30348152.21e/0_91aba_57945d36_orig

    https://gelio.livejournal.com/tag/Ханты-Мансийск

    possibly too much going into the military and the space program at the expense
    of the lives of ordinary Russians.

    Who do you think benefits from a well-funded military in Russia?

    When asked about their motives for joining the army, most of the professional soldiers say they want to improve their financial situation and eventually buy their own home.

    After a series of increases in soldiers’ pay, professional service in the Russian forces has become an attractive career option, especially in the poorer Russian provinces and in the rural areas. In 2014, a private in the Russian army received 17,400 roubles a month during their first term of service. That was well below the average Russian wage of 32,500 roubles at the time – but soldiers’ pay rises rapidly in line with their length of service, especially if they are promoted to higher ranks. For example, the basic pay received by a junior sergeant who has served for three years is roughly in line with the average Russian wage. There are also various bonuses on top of the basic salary. Basic pay itself can also be much higher than the minimum level across the MoD, depending on conditions and the location of service. For example, professional soldiers serving in Chechnya earn a minimum of 40,000 roubles before bonuses.

    http://www.mdb.cast.ru/mdb/4-2015/item3/article2/

    Where do they you think is new space infrastructure in Russia?

  61. @German_reader

    Hello. This is the first tine I am responding to one of your comments and therefore I am taking a minute to say hello. So hello :)

    I like your comments and especially about Germany where I regularly go for my work. I do not understand how this once martial and conquering people is now at the forefront of submission and wilful self-destruction. Although your comments help me better understand the symptoms, I still cannot pinpoint the root cause(s).

    By the way this is not limited to the class of Germany. The French and English also come to mind. But the Germans seem to be the « tip of the spear » of sorts in this regard nowadays.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  62. Dmitry says:
    @Anon 2

    Apparently some Russians are using Google Street View to see how people
    in neighboring countries live. Not surprisingly, their curiosity is focused on
    Poland.

    It’s one complaining guy (called ‘world citizen’) who made a channel comparing every city in the world as a way to criticize Russian cities.

    He made hundreds of videos, going through every country in the world, he always says it’s better than Russia. He focuses only on bad areas of Russian cities, and compares them with only good areas of foreign cities. It’s not a reasonable comparison, but propaganda.

    No-one in Russia is envious or dreaming about immigrating to Poland. Just this one guy whose hobby is saying everywhere in the world is better than Russia, from Google Streetview.

    This guy even says that Ukrainian cities are better than Russian cities.

    Outside this guy’s opinion, countries which people are really envious are ones which are actually have higher standards of living – Finland, Norway, Australia, Switzerland, etc.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Lithuanian
  63. @Guillaume Tell

    There’s no hysteria about knives here unlike the UK. I’ve never even heard of it being prohibited to carry a knife, though I’m sure you can find such a jurisdiction.

    Larger cities sometimes regulate the maximum permissible length of a blade.

    Switch-blades are illegal under federal law.

  64. melanf says:
    @Anon 2

    most of the Russian oil and gas comes from western Siberia.
    Isn’t it logical that the oil and gas largesse should benefit Siberia
    first, and not Moscow?

    Geographical map of income level in Russia.

    oil and gas benefit western Siberia first
    ( North-West of Siberia-the region with the highest standard of living in Russia)

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  65. Mitleser says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Is it really hard to understand that “martial and conquering people” will cease to be “martial and conquering” after failling twice really hard?
    Being “martial and conquering” applied more to old East Germany which was mostly wiped out during the war and afterwards. The Rhineland, Bavaria, etc. were not like that.

    • Replies: @Talha
  66. @Guillaume Tell

    I do not understand how this once martial and conquering people

    Well, as Mitleser already wrote, martial Germany was pretty much destroyed in the world wars, and tbh that may not have been a bad thing given its previous record.
    The current wish for national self-extinction is rather puzzling to me as well, I can’t entirely explain it. It must be a confluence of several factors, e.g. feelings of shame over the Nazi crimes (which bizarrely enough seem to have only increased with the passage of time), the ideology of European integration adopted by west German elites, wealth-induced decadence, a certain childishness of German society and its political elites…one has to remember that 1945-1990 the two German states had only restricted sovereignty, and the habits learned during that time haven’t disappeared, German political elites are unable to come up with anything more than hypermoralism and throwing money around.
    But as you wrote yourself, it’s a general trend. Personally I find the cases of Britain and France even more puzzling (not to mention Sweden).

  67. Talha says:
    @The Big Red Scary

    LOL! I was a bit saddened actually when recently I did a quick review of the landscape. It seems like all of the former territories of Byzantium are hosting PRIDE parades; Malta and Cyprus (at least the Greek part) included. What a shame. Seems the only ones to escape the poz are the Muslim territories.

    Beirut came close this year, but it seems the authorities shut it down after detaining the lead organizer. It seems it would have run afoul of a lot of municipal codes on decency and such – at least that’s what the authorities pressed as the issue. Close call.

    Peace.

  68. @Thorfinnsson

    You mentioned a while back in another post that you’re a millennial. These Guccis look like something your father would wear, if he were to have a pimpy taste in clothing (specifically the croc ones, not the regular leather). I am not objecting to the price, I just find your taste in clothing to be in conflict with your age. Based on all the millennials I’ve observed, and their taste in clothing, you’d be a sample of one. I’m a little older than you (assuming you’re indeed a millennial) and I like and have multiple pairs of nice expensive Italian shoes , but I wouldn’t be caught dead in those Guccis. They just send all the wrong signals.

  69. @Talha

    It seems like all of the former territories of Byzantium are hosting PRIDE parades

    Correct observation, but these are generally not grassroots. The traitor governments, controlled by the west, have pushed and enforced these, in many cases sending riot police to keep the paraders from getting beaten up by traditionalists, footbal hooligans, and the like.

    If you keep indoctrinating children in school the attitudes would eventually change (cf. western societies), so the key will be, who can hunker down and resists till the external pressures go away. That’s why you see (in the “East European attitudes towards Russia and the US” section) huge support for Russia in some EE countries; people are genuinely hoping for stronger Russian influence to protect their traditional way of life, which is under attack from the west.

    • Replies: @Talha
  70. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    Other Europeans are more or less in the same boat.

    They did not have Nazi crimes, but colonial crimes.

    European integration was something that was harder to avoid if you are one of the the smaller countries and France considered it an opportunity to make France great again.

    The sovereignty of other European countries was not restricted de jure, but de facto it was by the Americans.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @DFH
  71. Talha says:
    @Mitleser

    I remember reading either a paper or an article on this subject – it’s been a while but I’m sure people can find resources. In general, wars can be very dysgenic; you lose your young, capable, brave men in high proportions (often before they procreate). The ones who get a pass to avoid war are cowards (or these can survive deployment at higher rates by keeping their heads down) or those incapable or unfit. Not a good combo. It’s less so now because we have rules for POWs and such but in the past you could lose your entire army or the lion’s share of it like at Cannae or Qadisiyyah.

    Certain rules to walk away with:
    1) if you plan to wage war, make sure you win because they are generally dysgenic from the start
    2) losing a war is even more dysgenic
    3) losing a war to Russia in an epic way is even more dysgenic

    Peace.

  72. @Mitleser

    They did not have Nazi crimes, but colonial crimes.

    I don’t know, those are often exaggerated imo. Sure, the French tortured a lot of people in Algeria, but tbh those FLN people were pretty evil themselves, so no reason to feel guilty about anything. And British decolonization wasn’t really that bloody, those claims about a British “Gulag” in Kenya are mostly lies.
    The end of European empires probably did a lot to shatter the self-confidence of former colonial powers, but by itself it wouldn’t have been that bad…if there hadn’t been foolish attempts to maintain links with the former colonies and allow mass immigration from them.

  73. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    This guy even says that Ukrainian cities are better than Russian cities.

    Ukrainian villages (particularly Galician ones) are cleaner and better put together than Russian ones (not ones with dachas but regular ones inhabited by villagers), despite being poorer, although this varies by region. For some reason villages in Orel oblast are pretty nice.

    Kiev, of course, doesn’t come close to Moscow.

    Outside this guy’s opinion, countries which people are really envious are ones which are actually have higher standards of living – Finland, Norway, Australia, Switzerland, etc.

    Poland, overall, has a higher standard of living than Russia. Per capita income is a little higher and wealth is more evenly distributed. So a provincial Polish town will appear to be much more prosperous than a provincial Russian one.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  74. DFH says:
    @Mitleser

    They did not have Nazi crimes, but colonial crimes.

    Virtually no-one in Britain except dedicated Communists and liberal internationalists ever cared about ‘colonial crimes’ (even today, the empire is not unpopular); I believe this is very different from the situation in post-war Germany.

    The sovereignty of other European countries was not restricted de jure, but de facto it was by the Americans.

    I always hear people say this, but never see very many concrete examples. I know that the yanks forced Germany to take Turkish Gastarbeiter, which was pretty bad. But DeGaulle was able to leave NATO and destroy Bretton-Woods without American tanks rolling into Paris.

  75. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    Well, as Mitleser already wrote, martial Germany was pretty much destroyed in the world wars, and tbh that may not have been a bad thing given its previous record.
    The current wish for national self-extinction is rather puzzling to me as well, I can’t entirely explain it. It must be a confluence of several factors, e.g. feelings of shame over the Nazi crimes (which bizarrely enough seem to have only increased with the passage of time), the ideology of European integration adopted by west German elites, wealth-induced decadence, a certain childishness of German society and its political elites…one has to remember that 1945-1990 the two German states had only restricted sovereignty, and the habits learned during that time haven’t disappeared, German political elites are unable to come up with anything more than hypermoralism and throwing money around.

    Well to say obvious things.

    From 1814-1914 – Germany (or German-speaking peoples) are having a great century of flourishing and genius, and becoming perhaps the world’s most talented if unusual people.

    Who could have imagined in this earlier era (before first world war) future events, of Germany between 1933 to 1945 – a complete mental breakdown and brutal insanity.

    For me, what seems counter-intuitive is how successfully (West) Germany has recovered itself from 1950s years onwards, almost as if it has returned to its default, civilized culture of the previous century.

    But underneath the surface, perhaps something is not the same. And perhaps the return to normalcy is a little like after the patient is returned to society after a lobotomy operation.

  76. Talha says:
    @Chet Bradley

    A centralized schooling apparatus is absolutely necessary for this kind of change in attitudes. They are now introducing mandatory LGBTQ+ parts to the curriculum. I saw my own daughter was getting a little too influenced so had to dedicate some time into deconstructing their arguments and getting her back on track. Not as solid as I would like, but it’ll do for now.

    In general, women should not be given too many positions of power in the political realm; a few are usually OK but it should be kept to a minimum and extremely discouraged at the very top echelons.

    The poz usually begins there, it doesn’t drop out of the blue. Of course, Serbia seems to be batting it outta the park – they have an openly lesbian PM who attended the PRIDE parade herself. Bravo…?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Chet Bradley
  77. Mitleser says:
    @DFH

    I believe this is very different from the situation in post-war Germany.

    What post-war Germany?
    In early post-war Germany, Germans were still quite nationalist, claiming the 1937 German borders.

    But DeGaulle was able to leave NATO

    He did not. France did only leave the military part of NATO.

    …without American tanks rolling into Paris.

    France was a nuclear-armed country at that point.

  78. @reiner Tor

    I noticed some noise in the Hungarian online press about alleged doping among Russian footballers.

    Russia’s team doctor has bristled at questions about doping checks at the World Cup, claiming the host side have been tested twice as often as England. The statement came in the wake of a report in The Daily Telegraph that found Russian players had covered more ground than any others during the tournament . . .

    Telegraph Sport found that Russia’s players have run further during their first two matches than any other team, 73 miles in their first game and 71 miles in their second . . .

    “Extraordinary performances demand additional tests,” Travis Tygart, the chief executive of the United States Anti-Doping Agency, told The Daily Telegraph.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/06/22/russia-says-team-tested-two-times-england-amid-doping-questions/

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  79. @Thorfinnsson

    There’s no hysteria about knives here unlike the UK

    If you were following the news in the UK regularly (as I am, since I have 2 sons living there) you would be aware that it’s not hysteria, or at least not unjustified hysteria. Just like in the US you don’t have to worry about acid attacks either, which have become a staple of daily life in London.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  80. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Ukrainian villages (particularly Galician ones) are cleaner and better put together than Russian ones (not ones with dachas but regular ones inhabited by villagers), despite being poorer, although this varies by region. For some reason villages in Orel oblast are pretty nice.

    Kiev, of course, doesn’t come close to Moscow.

    It’s perfectly likely, but it does not support the biased analysis of the channel.

    1. What determines his methodology of selection of streets? In almost every video, the city of the other country is better, and he is the one who is intentionally selecting particular streets to compare.

    2. Aside from that, the way something looks on Google Streetview does not necessarily say very objectively (beyond correlations) about the place, or even atmosphere on the ground.

    So a provincial Polish town will appear to be much more prosperous than a provincial Russian one.

    Outward appearance is not always a very accurate way to determine prosperity (again there will just be correlations).

    Lvov gives the impression (on Street View) of an extremely wealthy city (if you don’t notice the cars), similar to the most upper-class areas of Paris, Geneva or Milan. It’s only someone who looks at the cars who will be getting something of the economic reality…

    Comparison of Detroit with Chelyabinsk. It’s not that there is a justification to defend Chelyabinsk, but he somehow does not show abandoned and ruined buildings* for which Detroit is famous (sure Detroit may also have very nice streets, but I could guess before what he would show).

    -
    -

    -
    *For reference:

    • Replies: @AP
  81. iffen says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    People are not equal, and we need a political system which recognizes that.

    The political system that we have presents the façade that we are equal, but operates in a manner that allows those who are more equal to run everything for their benefit.

  82. The Enemy has a clever new strategy: intimidating Republican officeholders in public and even outside their homes.

    DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Stephen Miller, and Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi have all been targeted.

    This is clearly coordinated, and as usual the enemy media is encouraging it.

    They seem to be specifically focusing on women, which is clever since women are weak and nearly always crack under pressure.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  83. iffen says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    I do not understand how this once martial and conquering people is now at the forefront of submission and wilful self-destruction.

    They were traumatized by WWII and the Nazis. I don’t see them making a recovery.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  84. @Thorfinnsson

    In Germany (and I suppose other European countries as well) Antifa often tries to intimidate members of the right-wing opposition by vandalizing their houses, torching their cars or holding intimidating demonstrations in front of their homes.
    I suppose the American left will adopt similar tactics. It’s pretty astounding though that they attempt such things against people actually holding office or being linked in some way to the government.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  85. iffen says:
    @Talha

    Seems the only ones to escape the poz are the Muslim territories.

    Don’t celebrate too much Talha, when the SJWs acquire total control this is gonna look bad. Bad, as in, “let’s turn the U. S. rainbow army loose.”:)

    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
  86. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Lvov gives the impression (on Street View) of an extremely wealthy city (if you don’t notice the cars), similar to the most upper-class areas of Paris, Geneva or Milan. It’s only someone who looks at the cars who will be getting something of the economic reality

    Sure, but lived reality for Lviv is excellent – people live every day in a beautiful place, and they enjoy (extremely cheap) good food and such. But obviously affording nice cars is something else.

    Comparison of Detroit with Chelyabinsk. It’s not that there is a justification to defend Chelyabinsk, but he somehow does not show abandoned and ruined buildings* for which Detroit is famous (sure Detroit may also have very nice streets, but I could guess before what he would show).

    I’ve been to both places. Yeah, the blogger lost all credibility with his comparison. Detroit is largely in ruins. There are some decent areas, often the residents hire private security to patrol them. It is like the show “Walking Dead.”

  87. @for-the-record

    you don’t have to worry about acid attacks either, which have become a staple of daily life in London.

    I wonder about that: is it limited to internal strife amongst Vibrants, or are such benefits of Diversity also extended to the English natives?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  88. @Thorfinnsson

    “illegal”, like in “illegal to carry” — or “illegal to own”? The latter would be scary indeed.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  89. iffen says:
    @DFH

    I know that the yanks forced Germany to take Turkish Gastarbeiter,

    How do you know this? I thought this was a German idea, you know, import Turks to do work that Germans won’t do.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  90. @Guillaume Tell

    Probably mostly limited to the vibrant, but there was at least one case in which an uninvolved English woman was killed in such an attack:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/11/woman-died-after-being-splashed-with-acid-from-nearby-dispute

  91. @Talha

    Seems the only ones to escape the poz are the Muslim territories.

    Yeah right. This is why Morocco is so famous amongst Francophone fags as the go-to place for easy sex with the locals. You’re such a moronic pretentious prick.

    • Replies: @Talha
  92. @iffen

    Well, “forced” may be a bit too much, but as far as I know the US did exert some diplomatic pressure in the early 1960s on West Germany to take in Turkish “guest workers”. It was linked to Cold war politics, Turkey was seen as an important NATO ally against the commies, so stabilizing its economy and linking it into supposedly mutually beneficial relationships with Western states seemed like a good idea.
    I don’t know how important US pressure was, but since there were concerns on the German side right from the start (iirc originally they didn’t want Turks, because the cultural differences were seen as too great, and would have preferred just to stick with Southern Europeans) it probably did play some role. The really disastrous decisions of the early 1970s and 1980s which enabled permanent Turkish settlement and large-scale family reunification were probably taken without much American involvement though (at least I’ve never heard something that would indicate otherwise).

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  93. @German_reader

    Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I had not considered the “childishness” of German society and its political elites, but considering the cult that has developed around “Mutti” Merkel, you certainly have a point here.

    martial Germany was pretty much destroyed in the world wars,

    Well, I am assuming the final “s” was a typo because as you know better than I, destruction of Germany occurred only during ww2 while ww1 left it essentially untouched (unless France where all the fighting occurred).

    and tbh that may not have been a bad thing given its previous record.

    Why? Really I don’t get that. Can’t the point be made that Germany unified and got bellicose as a result of repeated French aggressions and acted at least in part in self-defense? The 30-year war, the French revolutionary wars, the Napoleonic wars of conquests and subsequent occupations, etc.: isn’t that the real cause of German bellicosity against its western neighbor?

    The current wish for national self-extinction is rather puzzling to me as well

    Indeed. Do you see this wish being as widespread amongst the youth, as amongst the boomer ruling age group?

    Personally I find the cases of Britain and France even more puzzling (not to mention Sweden).

    France IMO never recovered from the 1789 revolution and more importantly the slaying of King Louis. The country has been deeply divided since. Britain is totally incomprehensible. Sweden I do not know much about.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  94. MK says:
    @Rattus Norwegius

    Haha, I am old lurker and also an old believer(not from Romania). It was nice to find your post :)

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
  95. Talha says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Pitching or receiving; it makes a difference.

    Do they do it openly? And flaunt it in public? Then you have your answer.

    Also…when was Morocco under Byzantine control exactly?

    • Replies: @A Spaniard
  96. @iffen

    This is certainly a necessary part of the explanation. But I do not find it

    sufficient

    . That they accept to be traumatized as much I find incomprehensible. Are the Mongols traumatized as a result of Gengis Khan? Do the Chinese feel guilty because of Mao? Evidently not.

    There must be something else playing out. I am thinking more in terms of a genetic defect of some sort.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Hyperborean
  97. @Guillaume Tell

    Illegal to carry.

    Switch-blades however are illegal to own period. I believe this was linked to ’50s era hysteria about Puerto Rican gangs and teenage delinquents in the new suburbs. West Side Story and Rebel Without a Cause dramatize this.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  98. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    as far as I know the US did exert some diplomatic pressure in the early 1960s on West Germany to take in Turkish “guest workers”.

    I did not know this, but it seems likely now that you have explained it.

    I guess Randal was right more often than I thought.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  99. @Thorfinnsson

    This really intrigues me.

    Have you read that:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switchblade#United_States

    Apparently the federal ban only applies to federal lands and similar places (like D.C. for example). But there are state laws too that may be stricter in this regard.

    Russia seems interesting: it appears to be mostly okay to carry a knife over there.

    That said blades are indeed potentially devastating weapons. In close quarters I would rather be equipped with a knife than a handgun.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  100. @German_reader

    Vibrants — the gift that keeps on giving, really.

  101. iffen says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Are the Mongols traumatized as a result of Gengis Khan?

    I don’t know. Is there a Mongol country?

    Do the Chinese feel guilty because of Mao? Evidently not.

    Most of the people Mao killed were Chinese. Nazis directly killed some Germans, but most of the Germans that were killed were killed indirectly.

    “I am thinking more in terms of a genetic defect of some sort.”

    Now you are trying for humor.

    But for the Grace of God go many peoples.

    Just look at how many Jack-in-the Box Nazi vassal states sprang into existence after the Wehrmacht came through.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  102. @iffen

    I don’t know. Is there a Mongol country?

    I believe its capital is called Ulan Bator :)

    Most of the people Mao killed were Chinese. Nazis directly killed some Germans, but most of the Germans that were killed were killed indirectly.

    Fair enough — I am buying this point.

    “I am thinking more in terms of a genetic defect of some sort.”

    Now you are trying for humor.

    Yes I am, it is true that I was a bit ironic there, but my (serious) underlying point is that Northern Europeans appear to be especially prone to pathological altruism (the expression is not mine). This would be evidently a strong disadvantage from an evolutionary standpoint, which would then, according to theory, be purged out by selective pressure. Maybe this is what we are watching playing out in Germany (and Sweden too maybe?).

    • Replies: @iffen
  103. @Guillaume Tell

    Since the federal ban also applies to interstate commerce, you can’t get switch blades unless you’re in the armed forces or law enforcement. It’s kind of a silly ban since you can buy daggers, swords, tactical tomahawks, and other extremely dangerous melee weapons.

    A knife beats a pistol if combat is joined at a distance under 20 feet. If you’re carrying a knife for combat (I carry mine rather as a tool and a fashion accessory) then a fixed blade knife or a gravity knife are good choices.

    Most people are better off with defensive weapons which don’t take training to use effectively and aren’t regulated by the law. Tactical flashlights for instance.

  104. @Dmitry

    I’m old enough to remember Soviet countryside in Russia too. It wasn’t well kept and tidy as in my country- Lithuania. Now it’s even worse. Russians are very lazy, their countryside architecture is mongoloid, they drown in misery and alchoholism and they are ok to live like pigs. Same can be said about most of Ukrainians. Belorusians are hit and miss
    Poles are bit tidier and Lithuanian villages are now only becoming shitholes. Good example is Kaliningrad and how Russians turned it into shithole. I really like russian language and some culture aspects, but their mentality stinks of shit and they are literally niggers of eastern europ

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  105. @iffen

    Don’t feel too bad about it though :-) American meddling definitely can’t be blamed for everything, e.g. Germany’s absolutely insane asylum system (which started being a problem already in the early 1980s) is something Germans did to themselves.
    Personally I regard American cultural influence in these matters as more problematic than any deliberate policy decisions by the US, I find it very irritating to see concepts like “white privilege” turn up in German media. But since white Americans are subjected to those pernicious trends themselves, it probably doesn’t make much sense to blame the US in its entirety for that.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  106. @Lithuanian

    Niggers than sent the first man into orbit? You must be some sort of humorist.

    • Replies: @Lithuanian
  107. Talha says:
    @iffen

    It begins…

    http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-kristin-beck-2017-7

    Gives “tip of the spear” a slightly different meaning…

    Peace.

  108. @German_reader

    Germany’s absolutely insane asylum system (which started being a problem already in the early 1980s) is something Germans did to themselves.

    Can you please elaborate on that? I am genuinely interested.

    We have German acquaintances who got in trouble for trying to homeschool their kids. They ended up moving to the US. I vaguely remember that some case of mental incapacity was tentatively mounted against them by the Jugendamt.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  109. @Guillaume Tell

    Nah, Russians are quite amazing. Served in military with them. Boxed with them, married one. (-snap- yep this is going in my gene pool)
    But there’s something that pisses me off and I hope russians can help me translate this in to English. It’s похуисм. One can be briliant scientist, yet live amongst drunkards covered in feces and also be proud of it..
    My real gripe with russians is that they are lazy, overemotional and not methodical. It’s mentality issue that has to be fixed if Russia wants bright future.

  110. @Guillaume Tell

    German home schoolers have a right to political asylum in America: https://abcnews.go.com/US/home-schooling-german-family-allowed-stay-us/story?id=22788876

    More refugees like the Romeikes, please.

    I found this fact in the article interesting:

    The devoutly Christian Romeike family fled to the United States in 2008 from southwest Germany after the German government threatened them with legal action for homeschooling their children, which has been banned in Germany since 1918.

    This suggests home schooling was banned by the November Criminals as one of their very first acts.

    The man now makes a living teaching piano: http://www.uweromeike.webs.com/

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  111. iffen says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Northern Europeans appear to be especially prone to pathological altruism (the expression is not mine)

    I am familiar with the concept. If we make observations and give it a name we can do all sorts or stuff.

    Many people in Northern Europe, the US and other settler countries have identity fatigue. Many of us don’t want to fight over race, religion, ethnicity, tribe, etc., anymore. We only want to fight over political ideas.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  112. @Guillaume Tell

    Why? Really I don’t get that. Can’t the point be made that Germany unified and got bellicose as a result of repeated French aggressions and acted at least in part in self-defense? The 30-year war, the French revolutionary wars, the Napoleonic wars of conquests and subsequent occupations, etc.: isn’t that the real cause of German bellicosity against its western neighbor?

    German states as victims of external aggression isn’t something that is emphasized in the dominant, “official” views of German history with their focus on 1933-1945. There’s always a concern that talking about something like this could lead to a trivialization of German crimes or a resurgence of militant nationalism. Not that there isn’t a certain desire for “revisionism” among the German public, e.g. Christopher Clark’s Sleepwalkers book (which suggested that imperial Germany at least wasn’t solely responsible for WW1) was a great success in Germany. But the reactions to that by German establishment historians were quite hysterical, and it was clear that this wasn’t just an academic debate, but about contemporary politics as well.

    Do you see this wish being as widespread amongst the youth, as amongst the boomer ruling age group?

    No idea really, I don’t really belong to the youth segment anymore and don’t talk to that many people anyway. More to the point, people in Germany often try to avoid about talking politics since the societal climate has become really toxic in the last few years and the gulf between the different political camps nearly unbridgeable over the migration issue. I suspect that two (former?) acquaintances don’t talk to me anymore since I probably shocked them with my right-wing views, and that seems to be typical. I’ve got one close female acquaintance (early 30s) who talks semi-regularly about politics with me and is quite critical of Merkel’s policy, but she also tells me that many of our former colleagues of roughly the same age are quite fanatical open borders types and that it’s impossible to have a discussion with them.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  113. @German_reader

    Xeneral Webster

    Don’t even have to type the name into Google to know its a Negro.

    Incidentally, splashing acid into people’s faces to distract them while the thieves steal their cell phone has become a popular crime in London.

    The Russian Anglo-worshipping liberal cucks whom I tell this to tend to react with studied disbelief.

  114. iffen says:

    their cell phone has become a popular crime in London.

    I think I can speak for most, (not all), of your commenters and say that we are certainly glad that you lost your electronics without this horrendous tactic being used.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  115. @German_reader

    The really disastrous decisions of the early 1970s and 1980s which enabled permanent Turkish settlement and large-scale family reunification were probably taken without much American involvement though…

    Apologies if you have explained this previously, but what exactly did Germany start doing different back then?

    Allowed the Turks with work visas to stay beyond expiration? Started giving them residency permits?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  116. @Lithuanian

    There’s some truth to that.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/translation-a-hell-of-their-own-making/

    One general note I would make is that Russia is a big country, and there are many gradations even within Russians. E.g. even in 2003, Yaroslavl – the region outside Moscow and the millioniki that I am most impressed with – was already a clean, flourishing city that had left behind its sovok past (indeed, c.1914, it was the most literate Russian region after SPB and Moscow, and had the highest % of peasants with savings accounts). Conversely, Volokolamsk c.2017 is still a dump with extremely corrupt local politicians and a literal garbage apocalypse – and unlike, say, Chechnya, it doesn’t get much in the way of gibs from the federal center.

  117. @Thorfinnsson

    Yes, I am familiar with the Romeikes’ story. It’s interesting how Germany has remained totalitarian in some respects. Liberal totalitarianism that is.

    This is related to your own assessment of Sweden, where you predict that their natural fanaticism will lead them to become extreme far-right 20 years from now. I certainly hope that your prediction is correct: last time I went to Sweden was in the early 90s and I loved it: clean, friendly, polite, well organized, etc. From what I understand of it now, it is quite different since the vibrants have socially, culturally, and otherwise enriched it.

    Regarding the switchblades, these arcane rules are proof that modern governments are not interested in protecting the innocent victims in general. The potential existence of concealed weapons are great equalizers which leave every predator in a state of uncertainty regarding how a tentative prey could inflict severe harm unto him.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  118. @German_reader

    German states as victims of external aggression isn’t something that is emphasized in the dominant, “official” views of German history with their focus on 1933-1945.

    Yes and this “official” view cannot tolerate being challenged as it would quickly collapse. Can you please tell me about the mental asylum system that you were alluding to in an earlier post?

    But the reactions to that by German establishment historians were quite hysterical, and it was clear that this wasn’t just an academic debate, but about contemporary politics as well.

    Which arguably is the prime motivator for any political regime to fund official historians. In the contemporary Western/liberal world, this role is fulfilled by the academe.

    Christopher Clark’s Sleepwalkers book was a great success in Germany.

    I am happy to read that. Thank you.

    but she also tells me that many of our former colleagues of roughly the same age are quite fanatical open borders types and that it’s impossible to have a discussion with them.

    Couldn’t there be some sexual aspect behind this? Something akin to a desire-to-be-raped complex? Which would go back to my theory about some sort of negative selective pressure playing out here.

  119. @Anatoly Karlin

    I’m hardly an expert on these matters (I find it kind of depressing to read about them tbh), but as I understand it the process was roughly like this:
    - 1st mistake was to extend the work term limits of Turkish “guest workers”; if I understand correctly, it was originally intended that they could only stay for two years and would then be replaced by new workers from Turkey. German industry lobbied against this since they didn’t want the hassle of having to train new workers every few years, so this requirement was dropped (according to German Wikipedia already in 1964, I thought it had been later). As a consequence of this some family reunification was also allowed.
    - The next important watershed was 1973 when the German government stopped all further hiring of guest workers. This had the paradoxical effect though of actually increasing Turkish immigration through family reunification, since many Turks were determined to stay in Germany and wanted to bring their families because they were afraid that would soon no longer be possible. There was no concerted attempt to prevent this, in fact it was handled so liberally that numbers of Turks in Germany rose from an estimated 500 000-750 000 in 1973 to 1,5 million at the start of the 1980s.
    - Helmut Kohl tried to induce Turks to remigrate back to Turkey in 1983/84, but this was largely unsuccesful, since life in Germany was obviously more attractive; so the number of Turks actually increased under Kohl due to family reunification, and also due to the granting of asylum.

    I guess you’re asking because of the situation with central Asians in Russia, so the lesson is: try to rotate them out of the country after a fixed term of years, and don’t ever let them bring their families.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  120. @Anatoly Karlin

    and unlike, say, Chechnya, it doesn’t get much in the way of gibs from the federal center.

    How would you assess the perception of Chechnya as an insufferable deadweight within ethnic Russians (as opposed to “administrative” Russians), by age group? I understand that the criminal code prevents an open debate on this question.

    I am currently convinced that it was the right thing to do to prevent Chechnya from becoming independent in the 1990s, because at that time what mattered was to prevent a complete disintegration of the Russian SFSR; but that today Russia should unilaterally grant independence to Chechnya and expel all Chechens to their newly-independent homeland. What do you think?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  121. @Lithuanian

    I am sorry but I don’t understand you. How do you reconcile your comment #106:

    they are literally niggers of eastern europ [sic]

    with your comment #111:

    married one

    Am I to understand that you willfully chose to spend you life with a Nigger-of-sorts?

    Really I am puzzled. Something must give.

    • Replies: @Lithuanian
  122. @Guillaume Tell

    Couldn’t there be some sexual aspect behind this? Something akin to a desire-to-be-raped complex?

    That seems far-fetched to me.
    A more likely explanation might be self-interest. One of my (probably former) acquaintances told me back in January 2016 how she could imagine working in refugee management. She clearly regarded the refugee influx as a potential chance for her own career advancement (iirc her mother was some kind of sociologist who had worked in projects with migrants…I guess with that kind of family background such ideas come naturally).

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  123. @Guillaume Tell

    C

    an you please tell me about the mental asylum system that you were alluding to in an earlier post?

    Sorry, that was a misunderstanding, I meant to refer to the right of asylum guaranteed in Germany’s basic law. I know nothing about asylums in the sense of institutions for the mentally ill.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  124. @iffen

    Fighting over political ideas is much easier because it does not involve one’s own actions (talking is cheap). Leftists proclaim a generic love for “humanity” which is an abstraction but typically fail to father and raise a large family. In fairness many right-wing types are also total losers in this regard.

    The fatigue that you are mentioning, if it indeed exists and is really widespread, must be explicable in terms of genotype expression under the current environmental pressures. An explanation I find plausible is that of an evolutionary bottleneck through which R1b peoples are going as we speak.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @iffen
  125. @German_reader

    Ah sorry, my bad. I thought that the Federal Republic had recycled the soviet-style psychiatrization of dissent.

  126. @Guillaume Tell

    The situation is pretty comparable to Germany. A mistaken decision to accept guest workers in the 60s owing to the booming postwar economy–known in Sweden as Rekordåren (the Record Years), which Tage Erlander only agreed to with great reluctance. The guest workers came from Italy, Yugoslavia, and Greece. They didn’t leave.

    Erlander was replaced by Olaf Palme, who officially instituted multiculturalism as state policy.

    Things start to get notably bad in this century after America smashed open “the Gates of Hell” (to use Saddam’s language). Before then even most taxi drivers in Stockholm were actual ethnic Swedes.

    Malmo may as well now be Mogadishu and frequently suffers from hand grenade attacks. Wikipedia even has an article for hand grenade attacks in Sweden: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden

    Generation Zyklon in Sweden is very based, and many are members of a group called the Nordic Resistance.

  127. @German_reader

    Leftists are good at combining feel-good virtue signaling with money-making and career advancement.

    I was recently watching a debate (in French unfortunately) where Daniel Cohn-Bendit (who still has German citizenship iirc) was invited. This scumbag is the epitome of this combination and he is stricto sensu disgusting and repulsive.

  128. @Guillaume Tell

    There’s definitely a sexual aspect to it. Women want nothing more than to be taken by a powerful man.

    Most Western men might as well be sexless eunuchs.

  129. Olaf Palme, who officially instituted multiculturalism as state policy.

    Why did he do that?
    iirc the evil Labour party in Britain had something like multiculturalism in its manifesto already back in the early 1960s, and it’s of course well known that Trudeau senior introduced multiculturalism in Canada. But Britain was the former centre of a empire, and Canada was already bicultural, so there was at least some discernible background to those policies (even if they were still absolutely idiotic and disastrous). But how could one get the idea to introduce multiculturalism into Sweden?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  130. iffen says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Fighting over political ideas is much easier

    No, you are wrong. It is much more complicated and exciting. Identification by religion or ethnicity is relatively simple and straighforward. The question of whether Thor is an enemy or a friend is ongoing as we comment.

  131. @reiner Tor

    Croatian volunteers were very enthusiastic to fight against the Bolsheviks so much so that over 9,000 (not an internet reference/joke) volunteered for the 5,000 slots available. They earned their stripes at Kharkov and were the only foreign forces given the honour of entering Stalingrad itself where they got BTFO, mostly at the Red October Factory in the thick of the battle.

  132. iffen says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Leftists proclaim a generic love for “humanity” which is an abstraction

    This is why they are winning. The opposition cannot cohere because much of the opposition is libertarian/individualistic.

    Groups win against individuals.

  133. @Talha

    I heard about this as well; but I think it depends somewbat on the type of army.

    If the army is composed of a small professional force then large losses are probably dysgenic, but if it is a full scale conscript army relying more on numerical superiority then it might not necessarily be so.

    • Replies: @Talha
  134. @German_reader

    Palme considered himself multicultural because his mother was a Baltic German, and he kept a Jewish adviser.

    The Jews that Sweden saved from Denmark during the war began promoting immigration all the way back in the 1950s.

    Remember this is the same blockhead who gave foreign aid to North Vietnam and compared President Nixon to Hitler.

  135. @Thorfinnsson

    The Jews that Sweden saved from Denmark during the war began promoting immigration all the way back in the 1950s.

    Didn’t Sweden also take in a lot of Jews from Poland in the late 1960s (including some really horrible characters who had taken part in Stalinist show trials against AK people)? I seem to recall that some of those have been rather problematic as well.

    Remember this is the same blockhead who gave foreign aid to North Vietnam and compared President Nixon to Hitler.

    He was pretty megalomaniac in his foreign policy activism.
    I have to admit I find it kind of hilarious they never found his killer (all the more so if it was really just some loser, and not some great conspiracy by the South Africans or the CIA).

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  136. Rosie says:
    @g2k

    True. Anecdotally, I know several Erdogan supporters who aren’t happy about the number of syrians in the country.

    I don’t get it. They all look pretty much the same to me, and thy have the same religion. I know they speak different languages but that seems like a minor nuisance at most.

    • Replies: @g2k
  137. Talha says:
    @Hyperborean

    I get what you are saying but Ww2 was on a massive scale; nations like Germany, France, Russia, etc. lost millions of their fighting men put together. Nothing like this occurred in history. They were so short on manpower that they recruited brown people from their colonies to help in the slaughter.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  138. @Guillaume Tell

    Are the Mongols traumatized as a result of Gengis Khan?

    Far from it, the Mongolians are very healthy, they celebrate the era when the Mongol race was of world-historical importance.

    Giant statue of Genghis Khan around 54 kilometres away from the capital:

    I understand them; if I was Greek I would certainly build giant statue(s) to Alexander the Great.

  139. Rosie says:
    @German_reader

    It’s pretty astounding though that they attempt such things against people actually holding office or being linked in some way to the government.

    That tells you everything you need to know about “the government,” doesn’t it?

  140. utu says:
    @reiner Tor

    Why did you leave out Slovakia?

    Yes. 50,000 Slovak troops invade Poland with Hitler on 1st Sept, 1939.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  141. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    There are things like economic or academic indicators, which are important on an underlying causal level and people need to worry about.

    Other things, like how much garbage people throw on streets, or whether drunks are pissing on doors of apartment buildings – it is unpleasant but only e.g. for residents of a particular building.

    Corrupt mayors and governors are rather a rule, rather than the exception – but if e.g. the economy was building a strong hi tech economy, or excelling in sciences, then it could survive all the corrupt mayors in the world, and will one day in the future, even, build robots to clean up any garbage people throw.

    There’s also a kind of Western petite bourgeois attitude of people like the Steve Sailor blog, where they think that cleanness of streets, or how the lawn of the golf course is cut, is a sign of civilization.

    How do such “clean” Americans imagine the garbage situation was of London of Shakespeare, or Florence of Renaissance, or Athens of Aristophanes?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Matra
  142. @Talha

    [N]ations like Germany, France, Russia, etc. lost millions of their fighting men put together. Nothing like this occurred in history.

    I think this actually reinforces my point; the war led to massive destruction in demographic, economic, social, infrastructural spheres etc. But as to pure dysgenic damage, I don’t think it was that significant.

    • Replies: @Talha
  143. @German_reader

    Didn’t Sweden also take in a lot of Jews from Poland in the late 1960s (including some really horrible characters who had taken part in Stalinist show trials against AK people)?

    I actually knew a Swedish ‘alt-lite’ guy whose grandfather was a Jewish communist who got kicked out of Poland in that time period.

  144. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    All said the discussion of deficiencies reminds of Varlamov’s complaining video today of the “park” in Volgograd

    At 26:00 minute

    So, “Parks” in Volgograd are in a bad way, at exactly same time as the city was full of English fans, the race most valued in all the world for their gardening skills.

    Surely the gods have intended for Volgograd authorities should take an opportunity to capture a group of Englishmen to the purpose of setting this gardening nationality to restore the honour of the city’s parks.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  145. Beckow says:
    @reiner Tor

    Why did you leave out Slovakia?

    Ohmmm, not enough space? for the sake of brevity? …ok, Slovaks belong on the list, you caught me :).

    There are things in our history – in all history – that are hard to understand. Only people of that era could really comprehend it. Looking back at something 75 years later is an artifice. When one looks at original sources, what people thought at that time is that Germany will win. My conclusion on why Romanians, Croats, Italians and others (clever, hm?) joined the German attack on Soviet Union is that they thought they would be on the winning side. That was it. When Germany started to lose, they started to think about bailing out, or even about switching sides. An under-appreciated dynamic in all human conflicts is this natural desire to be with the winners. In retrospect that is often hard to see.

    Of course, there are exceptions, for some strange psychological reasons, Poles crave being losers and often go to extreme lengths to make sure that they are prominently pitied. I really don’t know why, maybe the misty plains?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  146. Rosie says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Couldn’t there be some sexual aspect behind this? Something akin to a desire-to-be-raped complex?

    There could be, and there could also be a monster under my bed.

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/01/12/germans-attitudes-immigration-harden-following-col/

  147. @Anatoly Karlin

    Thanks for a good read Anatoly.
    I think I will dig up your archives as I’m fairly new reader of yours.
    I didn’t mean to insert racial undertones as I was rather attacking late sovok mentality that still lingers in some parts of my country as well.
    I can only think of it as post-soviet problem as there’s nothing wrong with Russian genetics.
    Sorry for offtopic, but I’ve seen few posts about Old Believers and I hope to slip some personal insights about these people as I do have family ties with this community.
    In my opinion that I formed reading old Russian literature that Russian Old Believers (Староверы) are closer representation of what Russians peasants would be without communism ghost haunting them.
    The ones I used to know were hard working and ascetic. Their blue, yellow, green dominated villages looked picturesque, tidy and well kept even if population was ageing. Old Believers work ethic could put any German to shame. What made me fond of them is that they still managed to preserve archaic Russian in their every day language, names and prayers while still being very successful in any country they were in. (((Big unkept beard tribe))) were quite good merchants and intellectuals too, ironically enough it was Soviet Union and not Tsarist Russian Empire that pretty much put an end to them directly and indirectly by destroying Russian countryside.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  148. @Dmitry

    I read once an article (I can’t find it now but I think it was the Telegraph) about middle-class Russians who were learning English gardening styles in the UK. And though they were mainly focused on improving their own private Properties, I think it shows that there is some interest in it.

  149. Talha says:
    @Hyperborean

    Ah Ok – good point – I can see that angle. I definitely don’t know if there is a study that would help determine whether the braver, healthier and tougher men were disproportionately killed off or whether it was proportional due to mass conscription.

    Peace.

  150. Dmitry says:
    @Lithuanian

    Thanks for a good read Anatoly.

    His old post (he linked to above) is very different to his modern posts, it feels like from a different writer.

    I have to say, I think he has improved a lot in his current posts.

  151. Mikhail says: • Website
    @utu

    Yes. 50,000 Slovak troops invade Poland with Hitler on 1st Sept, 1939.

    That and some other comments at this thread bring up the interesting observation on how some national/historical rivalries and friendships linger on, despite alliances involving a larger power.

    Specifically –

    The Bulgarian WW II example, previously discussed at this thread.

    In WW II, Nazi allied Hungary was decent to Poles seeking refuge, on account of close/friendly historical Polish-Hungarian ties.

    During the Cold War, Warsaw Pact/COMECON members Hungary and Romania periodically bickered with each other.

    NATO members Greece and Turkey have had some pointed spats.

    I’m not sure that Polish-Slovak differences have been greater than Czech-Polish ones. At the end of WW II, Poland resented the drawn boundary accorded to Czech dominated CzechoSlovakia. Germany had a similar qualm, thereby explaining how they both (Poland and Germany) carried on in 1938.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  152. @Guillaume Tell

    Excuse me, I was being niggerly myself by letting my emotions dictate me.
    Also, English language is not my forte and I find expressing myself in English very hard. (Thus, a lurker – not a poster)
    By using a racial slur I meant to target mentality, not genetics. I should’ve used fairy tale Иван-дурак archetype as an example.

    I am happily married to a Russian woman that comes from amazing personal background. I am happy to teach my children Russian and Lithuanian and I do hope one day they will teach me proper English.
    But I still stand by my comments that Russian countryside is absolutely run down. I suggest you visit Kaliningrad as I hardly know a place where I haven’t been in there.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  153. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mikhail

    I’m not sure that Polish-Slovak differences have been greater than Czech-Polish ones. At the end of WW II, Poland resented the drawn boundary accorded to Czech dominated CzechoSlovakia. Germany had a similar qualm, thereby explaining how they both (Poland and Germany) carried on in 1938.

    Should read as at the end of WW I, adding that Hungary also took CzechoSlovak territory in 1938, along with Poland and Nazi Germany.

  154. utu says:

    how some national/historical rivalries and friendships linger on, despite alliances involving a larger power

    That’s why if some larger power decides to sow the discord the alliance go out of the window. Do you think it would take a lot to bring the issue of minorities and contested territories between Hungary and Slovakia to the boiling point? That’s why any setup based on individual nationalisms of smaller countries is inherently unstable and precarious. Only a threat by a larger common enemy from without could stabilize it.

  155. utu says:

    18 Russian Empire posters

    Great posters.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  156. Mikhail says: • Website
    @utu

    Was that Weiner family in one of the posters Jewish?

    Regarding an academic, whose views on the Russian Empire and USSR have been rebuked in one way or the other:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/25062018-remembering-richard-pipes-oped/

    Different from the JRL promoted stuff that has been written about him.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  157. @Mikhail

    Richard Pipes was a Polish-Jewish American. His ethnic and political background probably makes him very unreliable for his interpretations.

    Apparently he was proponent of a Russian Sonderweg thesis, which proves the point.

    No one tries to sonderweg countries they like. How many professional historians write books about how Anglo-Saxon individualism and libertarianism are merely the result of a centuries long love for barbarism and disunity and that given the conditions of the Anglo-Saxon countries and peoples it was only natural that they would develop this way?

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  158. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Hyperborean

    As the linked article reveals, he wasn’t the typical anti-Russian that has been associated to people of a Jewish background.

    If I’m not mistaken, he received some type of a formal honorary Polish government acknowledgement.

  159. Dmitry says:
    @Lithuanian

    they are literally niggaz of eastern europ.

    What you are saying this wasn’t a compliment ?

    Maybe I’ve been learning English from the wrong places…

  160. @Talha

    Of course, Serbia seems to be batting it outta the park…

    Exactly, hence my comment about traitorous governments. But you know how it goes in history – things go one way till SHTF and then they don’t any longer.

    • Replies: @Talha
  161. Talha says:
    @Chet Bradley

    things go one way till SHTF and then they don’t any longer.

    Excellent point – I agree that the current trajectory is unsustainable. I think the current framework cannot hold on for the long run. Just hope that the transition happens without much chaos and bloodshed because you know how that can go.

    There’s a lot of hope though. Much of the Muslim world was on a similar trajectory led by a bunch of nonsense elites (though not so far down the tracks) a few decades back, but we were able to start the transition out of it (still ongoing). So I’m fairly sure Europeans will be able to do the same – it just sucks in the meantime.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Chet Bradley
  162. Dmitry says:

    Apparently, English are drinking all the vodka now…

  163. Beckow says:
    @Anon 2

    To declare that ‘Russia has never been a democracy‘ is simply stupid. How do you expect to be taken seriously with declarative slogans like that? If Russia today isn’t a democracy, then most democracies today and in recent past are also not democracies. Or maybe all of them are democracies and that’s the way real democracies look.

    When you make up things and then talk about ‘justified fear’, one can only wonder about your mental condition. Look up the diagnosis for people who create fictional narratives in their mind, and then fear the world around them based on those fictional narratives. There is a term for that condition and there are also medications to control it. Or you can do it yourself by simply deciding to be normal.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  164. g2k says:
    @Rosie

    If you were to spend five seconds anywhere in Turkey and five seconds in pre-war Syria (excluding one or two nice bits of Latakia and Damascus) you wouldn’t be able to say that with a straight face. Turks are very moderate as Muslims, but are nationalistic on a level that would make an alt righter baulk. They had the opposite experience to Europe as a result of this in the twentieth century.

  165. @Talha

    Just hope that the transition happens without much chaos and bloodshed…

    No bloodshed needed; rope and light poles will do.

    • LOL: Talha
  166. Controversial question, but could you consider the topic of the Russian prostitute?
    I consider them a bit of a stain on Russia’s rep, especially on their women, who generally are much more conservative and traditional than in the west, who complain if affects the way foreigners see them.
    Why it happened in the 90s is understandable, but why are so many doing still, especially in places like London, just so they can afford new handbags and a car? If Russia wants to return to be a more traditional state, surely having its women sell themselves for foreign currency in a country that doesn’t respect them (London) is a no!
    For us Russian speakers the website http://ruschippies.com/analysis/ might help, although its a bit hyperbolic.

  167. @DFH

    No US tanks for sure but he got full-blown CIA-backed subversion instead which ultimately destroyed his regime (May 68 of which he never recovered). (((Cohn-Bendit))), (((Krivine))), (((Geismar))), (((Goupil))) and the likes were all frequent visitors to the US embassy in Paris.

  168. utu says:
    @AaronFalcon

    Are there more Russian prostitutes than Americans? American one do not have to go abroad because the pay is good in the US. So you do not see them abroad. Is being a prostitute for foreigners worse than for your compatriots? Do you expect prostitutes to have a higher moral code than, say, Polish plumbers? Who care?

    But if you posed the question in terms of number of betrayals, divorces and abortions among normal women in Russia and, say, France if you had data for it, it would be an interesting question. Bolshevism destroyed many aspects of morality including concerning the sexual mores. Did the path to ‘slutdome’ via Bolshevism was faster than via liberal democracy? Does bringing back Christianity in Russia bring also a moral health? Are Russian women in some sense better than American women now? Could you trust them more? Are they a better material for wives and mothers?

  169. The stupid (Anatolian immigrants) vote for Le Based Erdogan, the cleverer vote for Ince (expats and professionals).

    In this respect, Turkey is the same as the US (expats vote Clinton), France (Macron), Russia (Prokhorov/Sobchak/etc), Czechia (anti-Zeman), etc. Truly universal pattern.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  170. @iffen

    we are certainly glad that you lost your electronics without this horrendous tactic being used.

    Fortunately when my son got his cell phone stolen a few years agoc he was only mugged and slightly scarred. And of course when they found out it was an old tech phone they left it behind.

  171. ussr andy says:

    An explanation I find plausible is that of an evolutionary bottleneck through which R1b peoples are going as we speak.

    hmm.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/09/germany-finance-minister-closed-borders-will-lead-inbreeding/

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  172. @Anon 2

    Is it due to the khrushchevkas being demolished

    No.

    or because Moscow continues to attract residents

    Yes. Also there’s a third and most important reason: people want to expand their existing real estate. Soviet norms are way too low for modern Russians.

    Or might it be that the autocracy in Russia means very specifically that the Moscow city-state sucks resources out of the rest of Russia

    Yes.

    so that villages and the Siberian cities (famously in a state of disrepair) are starved for investment money?

    No. Siberian cities are affluent and well-kept. They’re famous for their rough populace (due to history of industry and prisons), not urban decay.

    The decaying cities are along the Volga. Not sure why, because Moscow doesn’t suck much resources out of them. The cities hardest hit by Moscow’s pull are the ones immediately next to it — Tula, Tver, etc.

  173. @Anon 2

    Travelers around Russia widely report that, other than the Moscow region and possibly SPB, much of Russia looks like it’s starved for investment money

    Money isn’t a problem. Whatever the problem is, it is cultural. This is obvious when visiting Russian cities of comparable size, geography and income level but vastly different urban conditions.

  174. @AaronFalcon

    Controversial question, but could you consider the topic of the Russian prostitute?

    Most of them are actually Ukrainian or Moldovan.

  175. @Anatoly Karlin

    So people who profit from globalism vote for globalist politicians? Wow, what a shocking surprise!

    (Sarcasm, of course.)

  176. Mitleser says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    I am currently convinced that it was the right thing to do to prevent Chechnya from becoming independent in the 1990s, because at that time what mattered was to prevent a complete disintegration of the Russian SFSR; but that today Russia should unilaterally grant independence to Chechnya and expel all Chechens to their newly-independent homeland.

    Chechnya was de facto independent in the 1990s, the Russian Federation did not fall apart.
    On the other hand, it was destabilizing the region and you would get this problem back if you would kick them out.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  177. @Mitleser

    The Chechens should never have been allowed to return from Uzbekistan.

  178. Mitleser says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Remember this is the same blockhead who gave foreign aid to North Vietnam and compared President Nixon to Hitler.

    Does not sound so bad.
    North Vietnam was nationalist and comparing Nixon to Hitler does not make Nixon look that bad after reading this:

    The Jews that Sweden saved from Denmark during the war began promoting immigration all the way back in the 1950s.

    Maybe Sweden should not have saved them.
    Or at least sent them back ASAP.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  179. Mitleser says:
    @Beckow

    Of course, there are exceptions, for some strange psychological reasons, Poles crave being losers and often go to extreme lengths to make sure that they are prominently pitied. I really don’t know why, maybe the misty plains?

    The last centuries of Poland’s history.

    Winning anything, especially war, is very unpatrotic behaviour in Poland. You need to loose and die properly and then you can claim “moral victory” or some bullcrap like that.

    I wish it was a joke but its an honest, if not clearly stated, thing here. Defeats are celebrated far more than victories. I guess it started in XIX century with our romantic poets during the paritions who had initiated the idea of Poland as a messiah of nations (literal statments). To be clear it meant the sacrifice of the messianic archetype – another variant of this idea is “Poland as Winkelried of nations” – with Winkelried being a Swiss guy, who according to a legend threw himself on spear of Austrians to allow his comrades to pass. As this Polish thing appeared around the time of our nationalism and national identity were born, it kinda grew in, even into subconcious, fuelled by various defeats in uprisings etc, and became a cancer that survives until this day. Even in case of victory, like in Warsaw in 1920, its literaly called in our historiography a “Vistula miracle”. While there were political reasons for this statment, it fits into the “defeat narrative” – we were getting properly wrecked until the “miracle” occured, so it didn’t break the moral supremacy coming from a defeat. Warsaw Uprising which was a disaster on every single level is celebrated like something glorious, while the peaceful end of communism is reconstructed into defeat, It fits into the whole Smolensk catastrophe – Lech Kaczynski died properly, as he should, so the “moral victory” should be build around it. Its hard to build one around a catastrophe, therefore – murder.

    Its not the entire society, not even a majority, most Poles would deny this being a thing, bit I believe its fits into many of our stereotypes and festers somewhere in national psyche.

    https://forums.spacebattles.com/posts/35007301/

  180. Mitleser says:
    @ussr andy

    Thanks for remininding me of this BS from our previous government.
    The ruling coalition did later change the law so that this guy became the acting President of the Bundestag instead of one of the elected AfD members.

  181. @AaronFalcon

    The more affluent the society and the greater the emphasis placed on women’s rights, the sharper gender differentiation is. And this makes women less willing to engage in transactional sex (not just hooking, but also Beta Bux providers).

    Russians are also known for being materialists who are very interested in acquiring luxury goods.

    And then there’s the fact that once you turn down that road as a woman, coming back is difficult.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  182. Matra says:
    @Dmitry

    There’s also a kind of Western petite bourgeois attitude of people like the Steve Sailor blog, where they think that cleanness of streets, or how the lawn of the golf course is cut, is a sign of civilization.

    How do such “clean” Americans imagine the garbage situation was of London of Shakespeare, or Florence of Renaissance, or Athens of Aristophanes?

    Still reeling over Polish Perspective saying parts of Israel were a dump?

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Dmitry
  183. anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronFalcon

    Through one clever trick, thots in the West are much upgraded. Instead of trading sex for money(and later status), they inflict abuse for money and status.

    Aren’t you enjoying it?

  184. @utu

    I am almost certain there are more Russian prostitutes than American ones.

    Beyond what I said in my previous post, there’s the fact that many prostitutes working in America are foreign. Not just Russian (or Ukrainian), but many from Asia, Latin America, the Middle East, the Caribbean, and even Africa.

    Since prostitution is illegal everywhere in America outside of Nevada (where it however barred in Clark County), this serves as an additional disincentive for American women to become hookers (though of course this has never stopped blacks).

    Prostitution is much more lucrative in America than in Western Europe (about 3x higher wages for hookers), but also much more dangerous.

    That said a form of quasi-prostitution is going increasingly mainstream in America known as “sugaring”. Young women, generally but not always college students, sign up for Sugar Baby dating websites to meet older men with resources. The classic money for honey trade.

    This is the main Sugar Baby “dating” website: https://seekingarrangement.com/

    Though you can actually get laid off of these websites without paying girls a cent if you’re handsome and charismatic.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  185. @Thorfinnsson

    As a woman noted on iSteve, the great part about being a whore in the US is that you get to profit twice from it: first from the benefits of gaining the favor of the man in question, and then by suing him for #MeToo.

  186. Matra says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I forgot all about Olof Palme. I was a kid when he was killed but I can somewhat recall him being described as the ‘Pierre Trudeau of Sweden’ in Canadian media. For Sweden’s sake I hope he didn’t leave behind a politically active son.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  187. @Mitleser

    North Vietnam was rationalist relative only to South Vietnam, a comprador client state. Vietnam’s leaders were committed to Marxism-Leninism and the Revolution, and in 1989 they even attempted to organize a global conference to save world socialism.

    Sweden (and Norway) giving aid to North Vietnam (and, let’s not forget, the African National Congress) is typical of the infantile [email protected]#$ YOU DAD school of leftism that became dominant in the 1960s. Certainly after August 22, 1939 no one had a right to have any illusions after the nature of communism. The best you could say was that it was possible to do business with them, and the communist world turned out not to be monolithic.

    I don’t think being compared to Hitler should be insulting, but in practice it is and that’s obviously what Palme intended. Nixon was no angel to say the least, but he struggled to end the Vietnam War without covering America in disgrace. Was that worth another 20,000 American boys dying? Probably not, but that’s an order of magnitude different from attempting to conquer Europe (among other things).

  188. @Matra

    His children are professors. They could in theory enter politics in the future, but probably will not.

    Palme was the last great Social Democrat in Sweden.

    His successors are largely talentless hacks with working class, trade union backgrounds. The current Prime Minister for instance, who is a complete non-entity, is foster-care bastard raised by a manual workers and started his career as a…welder.

    • Replies: @Hector_St_Clare
  189. Mitleser says:
    @Matra

    But it is a strong, growing dump!

    I don’t think its necessarily an entirely technocratic question as opposed to a cultural one. Israel’s case is noteworthy because its high fertility rate doesn’t find its origins in Muslim or ultra-orthodox Jewish population.
    FR breakdown for Israel:
    Israeli Arabs (20% of the population): 3.11
    Haredi (ultra-orthodox, 12% of the population): 6.7
    Orthodox: 4.2
    Traditional (observant): 3.1
    Traditional (non-observant): 2.6
    Secular: 2.1

    In the case of the last three the FRs, rather curiously, are rising, and for the first two, falling.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-what-not-to-learn-from-israel-s-unusual-baby-boom-1.6115487

    https://forums.spacebattles.com/posts/47585408/

    Meanwhile in Poland

    April 2018 vs April 2017
    Births: 32.000 (+1.700, +5,9%)…………………10,0 (9,4)
    Deaths: 36.000 (+5.900, +19,6%)……………….11,2 (9,4)

    January – April 2018

    Births: 128.700 (-1.600, – 1,2%)……………..10,0 (10,2)
    Deaths: 153.200 (+6.100, +4,1%)…………..12,0 (11,5)

    Balance: -24.500 (-16.800)

    http://stat.gov.pl/obszary-tematyczn…2018,4,76.html (pdf, page 46)

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=149776263&postcount=6425

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  190. @The Big Red Scary

    Where do I sign up for NRx?

    We’ll find you if you read old books, live well, and get into a position of influence. The Eye of Soros cannot destroy what it cannot find.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
  191. This never gets old :D

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Mitleser
  192. @Thorfinnsson

    Is this about the Mexican restaurant refusing to serve her…? Or am I thinking about something differently?

  193. Mitleser says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Entertainer-in-Chief strikes again.

  194. @Hyperborean

    You’re confusing the ejection of Huck-san from a restaurant with DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen being confronted by protesters at a Mexican restaurant who kept yelling SHAME at her.

    Huck-san was dining (no doubt she loves dining…) at a restaurant called the Red Hen, and some of the owner’s sodomite and illegal alien employees complained about her presence. The owner then ejected her, and Huck-san Tweeted about it (which is now being called an ethics violation lol).

    Trump as usual is being a bull in a China shop.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  195. @Hyperborean

    Its basically this:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-24/maxine-waters-orders-if-you-see-anybody-trump-cabinet-create-crowd-and-push-back

    Essentially they want a “right to exclude” various government agencies for the uncoolness of being part of the Trump administration, and refusing to put in a “right to include” the entire world into the nation at whim. It must be understood that a degenerate faggot is superior in moral virtue and purity to anyone who works for Trump, thus why Christian bakers must produce propaganda for same-self marriages.

    Its the final triumph of new logical thinking. Doublelogic?

  196. Latvia school language reform irks Russian minority, backed by Jewish community

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-latvia-school-language-reform-infuriates-russian-minority/

    None of the other — considerably smaller — minorities have expressed concern over the new legislation, which is actively supported by Jewish groups and the Congress of Ukrainians in Latvia.

    Speaking to AFP, Riga’s Chief Rabbi Menachem Barkahan said the language reform would definitely help students from minority groups when it came to higher education.

    “When I visit Israel, I see the following problem: with Arabic granted status as the second official language in Israel, many Palestinian kids become disadvantaged when they are not required to be fluent in Hebrew and later have problems attending college,” he said.

    “Latvia’s education reforms will help prevent a similar situation.”

    They really shouldn’t stick their noses into places where they don’t belong.

  197. Russia meets a second class team, as opposed to a third class Arab one, and starts getting beaten hard.

    So, exactly as I expected and predicted.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  198. @Thorfinnsson

    It seems rather mild in my opinion (if the restaurant is so dirty then why did his subordinate want to eat there…?), I think Trump has said more biting things in the past.

    If, as you said, the restaurant was employing illegals and they were partly to blame for her getting kicked out, wouldn’t it have created a bigger uproar (a positive thing in this situation) if he had criticised that instead? It would also fit well with his political rhetoric.

  199. @Beckow

    Beckow,

    No, the Czech – Slovak split was in the opposite direction right after WWII. The communists won the 1948 free election in the Czech lands and lost in Slovakia.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  200. @Thorfinnsson

    I’m not particularly a fan of Sweden and their politics (I much prefer Denmark) but more politicians having working class roots is a good thing, not a bad thing. We need more welders and people like that in office.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Thorfinnsson
  201. Marcus says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Who do you think offed him? I’ve heard South Africa and Yugoslavia are the two favorite candidates.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Thorfinnsson
  202. Mitleser says:
    @Marcus

    Yugoslavia? Why?

    • Replies: @Marcus
  203. So 99% of the ballots counted Erdogan won a narrow victory (52.54%), similar to previous elections.

    Apparently Germany-Turks came out strongly for Erdogan. Central Anatolia not sending her best…

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jun/24/turkey-elections-muharrem-ince-recep-tayyip-erdogan-polls-live-updates-2018

    Huge crowds gathered to celebrate Erdoğan’s victory and hear his speech from the party headquarters in Ankara.

    During the address, he spoke of his commitment to “fight terroristic organisations”, “to continue the fight to make the Syrian grounds freer” and to increase the “international prestige” of Turkey.

    “Our flag will flutter more freely, the peace of every citizen will be advanced,” he said, before leading the crowd in a chant of “One nation, one flag, one country, one state”.

    Given that Erdogan has praised the governmental system of National Socialist Germany before, was he being spontaneous or was he trying to upstage Hitler?

  204. @Hector_St_Clare

    [M]ore politicians having working class roots is a good thing, not a bad thing. We need more welders and people like that in office.

    Why? What is your reason for favouring that?

    • Replies: @Bies Podkrakowski
  205. @Hector_St_Clare

    The cream rises to the top. There’s little talent in the working class, which is why they’re in the working class.

    These romantic fantasies about the working class are ridiculous, particularly on an HBD-oriented blog.

    That’s nothing against welders either, who are highly skilled workers.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @iffen
  206. @Marcus

    I’ve never looked into it much.

    Based on the principle of Cui Bono, the most likely culprits are the United States, Israel, and South Africa.

    The USA and Israel strike me as more likely than South Africa, as the BOSS was much less aggressive beyond its borders than the CIA and Mossad.

    • Replies: @g2k
  207. Dmitry says:
    @Matra

    That guy just invented a completely fake story. I’m talking about the guys on the Sailer forum which is a different forum and different demographic. They talk about golf courses, or have posts which are directly saying about how their lawns indicate their level of civilization. At the same time none of them can know outside their own language, or seem to follow basic statistics. It is a very petit bourgeois American environment.

    • Replies: @DFH
  208. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Russia meets a second class team, as opposed to a third class Arab one, and starts getting beaten hard.

    So, exactly as I expected and predicted.

    Yes, and I agree. Although who do we know who has a different perspective? I think it is a quite mainstream view.

    As for the 1/16 round – the most probably result is a defeat. But with the high-randomness of football, there is always a possibility.

  209. Marcus says:
    @Mitleser

    He was seen as too soft on nationalist emigres that Yugoslav secret police (some of the most effective assassins in history) were trying to hunt down

    https://www.thelocal.se/20110117/31488

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  210. DFH says:
    @Dmitry

    At the same time none of them can know outside their own language

    Learning another language if you’re a native English speaker, especially an American, is completely unecessary and just showing off.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Dmitry
  211. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Are Russian women in some sense better than American women now? Could you trust them more? Are they a better material for wives and mothers?

    If you ask about “women’s relationship morality”. For this kind of universal human problem, a difference within the national groups is of course larger than any difference between national groups.

    From your perspective, the relevant part is how accurately you judge character.

    If you ask about relationships in general, average marriage age is a couple of years younger, but there is not some vast difference in culture of dating between the nationalities you are discussing.

    -

    A funny thing is that some could blog about, is how in both countries (America and Russia), this year there are news headlines about studies showing that the current teenage generation are having less sex, promiscuity and drugs, than previous generations (teenagers of the 1990s and 2000s).

    Is being a prostitute for foreigners worse than for your compatriots?

    Probably a lot of people are confused by the Ukrainian ones. Clearly, the vast majority of Russian prostitutes, are working in Russia.

    However, as a percentage of the total women’s population, of course only a very small percentage are working as prostitutes (they simply have a lot of customers each one).

    • Replies: @utu
  212. @DFH

    It can be professionally useful if you learn a niche language from a small country with an outsized role in global trade. You can make a lot of money by being a native English speaker with fluent proficiency in Swedish, Finnish, Japanese (not a niche language but hard and not commonly learned), Swiss German, and so forth (not Dutch owing to their arrogance with respect to English proficiency).

    Not very useful to learn Korean or Chinese owing to the large recent diasporas in Anglo countries. Russian also not very useful unless you want a career in the Dweeb State.

    It could be interesting learning the native languages of important countries where English proficiency is lower like French or Japanese, as that allows you to plug into a different world so to speak.

    But generally I agree.

    It’s fashionable in America to lament the state of foreign language education, but if anything there’s too much of it. Unless you’re studying diplomacy (can you even study this?) or something similar, there shouldn’t be any mandatory foreign language requirements in education at all.

    Dmitri might be making the point that Americans are insular, which is true. But that’s probably more down to the continental scale of the country and being bordered by small, unimportant states.

  213. @Hyperborean

    Maybe they are more grounded in reality?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  214. Dmitry says:
    @DFH

    Sure, and it is the same situation in other important countries/languages.

    But a side effect, when combined with this kind of bourgeois American people debating about non-American cultures, results in some very easy dissemination of fake news about other countries (e.g. prestigious America media claiming Putin as a racist nationalist – fuck have you never listened to the guy talking, and you can find a lot of people who have translated him), and a kind of false universalism attributed to things which are simply unusual features of your own culture (e.g. the view of those guys that civilization is expressed by how regularly your lawn is cut).

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  215. @Dmitry

    http://www.masters.com/en_US/course/index.html

    https://www.pebblebeach.com/golf/pebble-beach-golf-links/

    Most American municipalities have ordinances on the books requiring you to regularly mow your lawn. If you don’t comply you get fined.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @g2k
  216. @Bies Podkrakowski

    Depends on the domain. They’re far more grounded in reality in the social, cultural, and religious domains. Hence why any “populist” movement relies on their votes.

    They’re absolute fools on some other things. Try having a five minute conversation with a proletarian about the price of gasoline for instance.

    • Replies: @ussr andy
  217. Beckow says:
    @Hector_St_Clare

    communists won the 1948 free election in the Czech lands and lost in Slovakia

    That election was in 1946 (not 1948). Why are you identifying communist support and Russia? They were not the same. There was a correlation but an equally strong reason was the fact that Slovaks were more religious. A lot more religious, so voting for communism was not an option for many who otherwise had leftist sympathies.

    Communists in Czech R. got over 40% and won. In Slovakia they got 30%., relatively comparable.

  218. Mitleser says:
    @Marcus

    Killing him for that seems excessive.

  219. @utu

    Are Russian women in some sense better than American women now?

    My limited experience is that they are much tougher mentally, but aren’t exactly happy that they have to be.

    They also have +50% cold resistance.

  220. g2k says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    As long as Bildt is out of the picture, it’s an improvement. Having said that, he keeps popping up on respectable TV channels ponticicating and playing the elder statesman.

  221. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The topic – and kind of housewife interest in those themes relating to lawns and where to throw garbage – is implausible on any intuitive psychological level. Do you think the great men which were the necessary condition for the achievements of modern civilization like Isaac Newton, for example, has cared particularly about the quality of lawns in his college?

    Although there is a subtle custom to show the higher status of the smartest people in both Oxford University and Cambridge University now, that only professors are allowed to walk on their college lawns.

  222. g2k says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    This must be a yank thing. I remember reading about a guy who dug up his front yard and planted flowers, shrubs etc there instead of having a lawn and got fined for not mowing it. Having a house with a pain lawn in England is like having RENTER tattooed on your forehead.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  223. @g2k

    I suspect it stems from the American custom of not fencing or hedging our yards.

    Gardening is done, but not on the English scale. Typically some bushes and flower beds directly adjacent to the house itself. In the past decade, occasionally a vegetable garden.

    The large yards relative to Europe also create enough space to play sports in your yard, which is pretty commonly done at outdoor cookouts. Very common to toss around a football (American), baseball, or frisbee.

  224. @Hyperborean

    This is great. Germany should erect a similar statue to AH

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  225. g2k says:
    @Dmitry

    I suspect that he wouldn’t have cared much for the fine details, but generally appreciated living and working somewhere nice as opposed to a s…ole.

    Never knew about the waking on the grass thing there. I guess even that is insufficient for the latest sjw crybully: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/jun/23/priyamvada-gopal-cambridge-lecturer-racial-profiling-row
    Looks like the race tantrum phenomena has finally crossed the pond.

  226. DFH says:
    @Dmitry

    Although there is a subtle custom to show the higher status of the smartest people in both Oxford University and Cambridge University now, that only professors are allowed to walk on their college lawns.

    lol, I didn’t even know this. I never saw anyone walking across the lawns to get to places, but people used to have picnics on the bigger ones all the time in summer

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  227. @Dmitry

    Many if not most of the great men in history were landed nobility and thus were greatly concerned about the quality of the grounds. Many of America’s Founding Fathers were country gentlemen and expert farmers and estate managers. Take a look at Mount Vernon (George Washington) and Monticello (Thomas Jefferson) for instance.

    Do you think that Charles Gordon-Lennox, 11th Duke of Richmond, is concerned with the quality of the grounds at his family seat at Goodwood? He went on to found the Goodwood Festival of Speed, one of the most important and celebrated evens in motorsport.

    The Goodwood Estate

    The typical Anglo-American elite university has a vast grounds-keeping army and has immaculate landscaping.

    Aerial View of Harvard Yard

    Ground Level View

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  228. @Dmitry

    Charles Darwin was a dedicated gardener. Telsa was an exception in being a very strange, wild genius but I think he’s an outlier, really.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  229. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Almost all famous mathematicians and physicists, are famous for the disorderedness in their domestic tasks (which are better to give to their wife).

    Darwin is a naturalist, so a different case – and he was English, so he would have an usual genetic talent for gardening.

  230. Dmitry says:
    @DFH

    lol, I didn’t even know this. I never saw anyone walking across the lawns to get to places, but people used to have picnics on the bigger ones all the time in summer

    There’s also Fellows’ Garden in many colleges. This is a special garden in which only “fellows” (academics) can enter.

  231. Mitleser says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Alternate History?

    • LOL: German_reader
    • Replies: @Talha
  232. Mitleser says:

    I am kind of surprised that Algeria is getting away with that.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  233. @Mitleser

    Algeria offering free eugenic improvement to migrants.

  234. @Hyperborean

    I understand them; if I was Greek I would certainly build giant statue(s) to Alexander the Great.

    The Slav Macedonians did.

    Skopje is a bizarre city – poor and polluted but covered with newly built neoclassical palaces and innumerable monuments to any semi-famous historical or modern person related to it (Alexander is unrelated though – his kingdom was almost all in the territory of Greece, and Slavs came to the place long after him). A legacy of a crazy nationalistic and spendthrift government of late 2000s – 2010s. I recommend curiosity-seeking readers to make a trip there when the weather isn’t too hot.

  235. @Thorfinnsson

    I wonder what you mean by ‘working class’. The notion of ‘class’ is a Marxist one, and the original Marxist definition is a dichotomy of those who live by selling their labor/wits and those who live by rent-seeking activities.

    We are all ‘working class’ today, even people like Elon Musk and Steve Jobs.

    The original Communist Manifesto was an instruction manual on how to eliminate the rent-seeking class, and as far as I can tell it has been implemented with great success in every modern country.

  236. @anonymous coward

    The original Communist Manifesto was an instruction manual on how to eliminate the rent-seeking class

    What is Microsoft and their licensing agreements? What are venture capitalists?

    I agree that “rent-seeking” in land-ownership has been heavily reduced, but its has just moved to intellectual property instead. Banking is pretty much rent-seeking and the use of migratory and interchangeable workers enabled by expensive capital machinery is pretty much the rule of agribusiness.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  237. Most American universities are laid out on the plan established by Thomas Jefferson for the University of Virginia. This made a central quadrangle the focus of organization.

    Noblemen usually aren’t idiots because of survivorship bias. Charles Gordon-Lennox is to be commended for his achievements in motorsport. Charles Gordon-Lennox’s lineage isn’t terribly impressive either in that the seat derives from one of Charles II’s bastards.

    Obviously when you are managing an estate, it’s unlikely that you yourself are the landscape architect. That doesn’t make you unconcerned with the results. Consider the role of Renaissance Popes in driving artists to greatness, or more recently Steve Jobs at Apple.

  238. @anonymous coward

    Working-class in the sense that it’s employed in America. “Blue collar” (i.e. manual work of some kind) in exchange for an hourly wage.

  239. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The typical Anglo-American elite university has a vast grounds-keeping army and has immaculate landscaping.

    For me, the American universities (externally) – a kind of weak imitation of the original (authentically beautiful) English universities.

    Especially some ones like Princeton, look as fake as the Eiffel Tower in Las Vegas or, (it’s not only an American problem), Embankment Brugge of Yoshkar-Ola.

    Do you think that Charles Gordon-Lennox, 11th Duke of Richmond, is concerned with the quality of the grounds at his family seat at Goodwood? He went on to found the Goodwood Festival of Speed, one of the most important and celebrated evens in motorsport.

    These often (usually) are idiots (below average people), who distantly and as a result of random probability were born with family that once had successful ancestors, hundreds of years in the past (usually these ancestors were merchants, but a minority became powerful on lawnless battlefields of an era before gardening was fashionable).

    Although perhaps my comments seemed unappreciative. The genetic gardening skills of English people is something impressive, but in this case the talented creative professionals creating gardens are usually not the same people as the private owner of the garden (who might be a genetic outlier, with no gardening talent themselves).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Daniel Chieh
  240. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    The most famous blogger Varlamov this week has been posting photos (and video above) of the park jubilee of Volgograd.

    It has to be admitted, that the city needs the help of English people (who could have been found and captured among visiting football fans).

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  241. Mitleser says:
    @Dmitry

    Dislike the first pic, but the rest looks okay.

    Leave the English, capture Varlamov and let him “fix” it.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  242. Dmitry says:
    @Mitleser

    Lol I think we can predict that Varlamov has even less skill for gardening than he does for cutting his hair.

    But who needs an English gardening, when you have a view of giant Lenin’s ass.

    Or the snail sculpture…

    -

    Seriously though, I find this standard post-apocalyptic urban environment more beautiful than the campuses of American Ivy League colleges, but to explain why – rationally – I cannot.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  243. @Dmitry

    These often (usually) are idiots (below average people), who distantly and as a result of random probability were born with family that once had successful ancestors, hundreds of years in the past

    Noblemen have to play court games and politics, being an idiot will lead to unpleasant results to put it lightly.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @DFH
  244. Rosie says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    And this makes women less willing to engage in transactional sex (not just hooking, but also Beta Bux providers).

    Thorfinnsson,

    FYI:

    https://psychcentral.com/news/2012/04/18/lack-of-men-leads-women-to-choose-career-over-family/37500.html

    I think we still need to figure out which direction the arrow of causation points.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  245. Talha says:
    @Mitleser

    They could have an epic large statue of him immortalizing his last known action. If done well, the exit wound could be managed as a large fountain of sorts…

    Peace.

  246. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Noblemen have to play court games and politics, being an idiot will lead to unpleasant results to put it lightly.

    Perhaps when court games and politics still existed, which was a lot of generations ago.

    Stereotypes you can hear today, from people whose parents sent them permanently to a school in England, is that the stupid kids in their class are usually ones with those kinds of famous parents. The more adequate students are usually people with the more normal families – at least in a stereotypical view.

  247. @Dmitry

    I also believe in all propaganda I read.

    I can tell you stories of hilarious, terribly incompetent and truly depraved kids of aristocratic origin(I actually know a particularly ridiculous one, I might share here someday), but a lot of it is that it just stands out in our memory/availability cascade. Also their epic fails are more epic because they have resources to do so.

    But the vast majority in my experience, even those with problems, tend to be overall fairly competent.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  248. @Dmitry

    The nobility are obviously considerably brighter than the proles (perhaps 110 average IQ). Successful rich (so clever) men marrying into the nobility has been a staple of European life for centuries. This impression also syncs with real life.

    Even on this very board, which is full of high quality people, at least two three – AP, Thorfinnsson, and Daniel Chieh – have impressive aristocratic pedigrees. So did a Romanian reader with whom I met up in Bucharest, who apart from coming from a boyar family was also personally highly successful as an investment banker (despite his family’s entire fortune having been destroyed in the 1940s due to obvious reasons).

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  249. @Rosie

    Both can simultaneously be true.

    The girls on college campuses dealing with a shortage of men are having sex. But they’re not having transactional sex or forming stable relationships (too much competition).

    I’ve seen reports that China’s male surplus is strengthening monogamy and family formation, relatively speaking.

    The 1920s is remembered as a time of sexual decadence, particularly in Europe. Probably has something to do with the demographics of the period.

  250. Mitleser says:
    @Dmitry

    Decaying urban environment has a more interesting character.

    My favorite building in my city is a high-rise building is a high-rise bunker.
    It is so tough that they did not destroy it despite its central location.
    Nowadays, it is abandoned and surrounded by flora.

    The Lenin statue should lose its head.

  251. @Anatoly Karlin

    I also have pretty much an unbroken line of mandarin/landowner descent recorded at least as far back as the Ming. Obviously lost pretty much everything after the victory of the Communists, which hasn’t particularly stopped us.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  252. @Dmitry

    Seriously though, I find this standard post-apocalyptic urban environment more beautiful than the campuses of American Ivy League colleges, but to explain why – rationally – I cannot.

    Ruinenwert.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  253. @Daniel Chieh

    Yes, you as well. Can’t believe I forgot to mention you.

    My maternal/maternal/paternal line is aristocratic, though not of an impressive pedigree – that branch was only ennobled under Alexander III, for military service.

    So are those from my maternal/paternal line, who were prominent Lak notables; big fish in their society, although said society constituted a very small pond (there are only 200,000 Laks even today).

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  254. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Maybe I’m writing a little confusedly.

    I know a couple of people who have been in schools with stupid kids from these kind of strange parents (where they had classes all day living in the same place with kids of the exactly particular background Thorfinnssons talks about in his post).

    On related topics, I have a personal experience of this as well with a really funny German example of this, but I won’t add more.

    I wasn’t talking about politics (or my political views on the topic).

    It’s a general stereotype that this demographic are below the average in classes, at least in the kind of academic courses.

    Maybe stereotype is not something justified though and it would be interesting if someone like Karlin was a chief scientist, his team who collect empirical data.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @AP
  255. @Dmitry

    Its just the same with everything, though, if you have money and no intelligence, you won’t have money before too long either. Your parents and so on can often try to do things to help, but it only can go so far; I know an example where the mother tried to control the trust fund so that her daughter could only blow a few million at a time, so she just hired lawyers to sue her mother to get control over her fund.

    You can really only stop people from self-destructing so much. Its life. Arguably, with money and opportunity, they have even more means to self-destruct: a single extensive addiction is all it takes.

  256. Talha says:
    @A Spaniard

    Thanks for the correction. It looks like they had a presence after all in a small area around current-day Tangiers and Ceuta. I did not know the Arabs fought the Byzantine garrisons that far West, I thought they basically ended around Algiers.

    Learn something new every day…

    Peace.

  257. iffen says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    These romantic fantasies about the working class are ridiculous, particularly on an HBD-oriented blog.

    What is incompatible between HBD and a desire to see greater political participation by the working class?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  258. @iffen

    There’s a certain type of nationalist that has a fantasy of BASED proles taking over from effete elites/intellectuals/cloud people/whatever.

    The reality is that people in the working class are of limited talent and ambition and thus cannot form a political vanguard. Even the Bolsheviks figured this out, though they had to put some lipstick on the pig to make it palatable for their worldview.

    As for greater working class political participation, sure that’s fine. Look at Trump with his rallies and deplorables. Our path to power lies through the working class, but we’re not workers.

    • Replies: @iffen
  259. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Ruinenwert.

    Although this concept, (from reading Wikipedia) seems to necessary that the original building, now ruined, had a great value or represented once a great civilization?

    But I wonder sometimes about the beauty of something that was always unattended – and its tragic beauty is somehow distilled with this pathos.

    It might be psychologically related to imagining the people that lived an entire life (happiest and saddest memories) in these neglected places. People who walked back from school every afternoon besides (for example) this snail monument of Volgograd (now slandeed by Varlamov), or sometimes dream it at night.

    Ruinenwert is similar, but seems related to the glory of the lives of the people in the past location, while what is the melancholy of places which never have glory or attention?

    -

    For example, the atomic monument, which is the first tourist attraction of the city of Volgodonsk (according officially to Tripadvisor ratings).

    How to describe this monument to the peaceful atom (the pride of the city of 170,000 people)? Does anything in Rome can rival it in its beauty?

  260. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Probably a lot of people are confused by the Ukrainian ones.

    Russian nationalist who claim that Ukrainians do not exist would agree that it is very easy to mistake a Ukrainian whore for a Russian one.

  261. ussr andy says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Try having a five minute conversation with a proletarian about the price of gasoline for instance.

    try having one with a UMC person about immigration (the won’t talk to me)…

    one could say it’s even worse because by your own logic the UMC person has the faculty to know better.

    right now, however, their clever plan is to physically check out of society (gates, helipads etc) when the SHTF.

  262. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    It’s a general stereotype that this demographic are below the average in classes, at least in the kind of academic courses.

    Is it a stereotype, or simply Soviet propaganda? There are stereotype about such people being eccentric, or frivolous, or even lazy, but not that they are dumb.

    Someone has done research on this:

    https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10181.html

    The Son Also Rises
    Surnames and the History of Social Mobility

    How much of our fate is tied to the status of our parents and grandparents? How much does it influence our children? More than we wish to believe. While it has been argued that rigid class structures have eroded in favor of greater social equality, The Son Also Rises proves that movement on the social ladder has changed little over eight centuries. Using a novel technique—tracking family names over generations to measure social mobility across countries and periods—renowned economic historian Gregory Clark reveals that mobility rates are lower than conventionally estimated, do not vary across societies, and are resistant to social policies.

    Clark examines and compares surnames in such diverse cases as modern Sweden and Qing Dynasty China. He demonstrates how fate is determined by ancestry and that almost all societies have similarly low social mobility rates. Challenging popular assumptions about mobility and revealing the deeply entrenched force of inherited advantage, The Son Also Rises is sure to prompt intense debate for years to come.

    ::::::::::::::

    Essentially, the same old families have higher income and success rates across all cultures. In egalitarian Sweden people from old noble families and from successful 18th century families dominate high-income fields such as medicine and law.

    The book did not include Russia, and the situation there was complex. Aristocrats and successful merchants were driven away or culled. Successful old Bolsheviks themselves were mostly renegade nobles (Lenin) or from ethic minorities, not peasants. They were replaced as the system affirmative-actioned peasants and proles to the top, probably to the detriment of the state (Brezhnev). But even in this case it wasn’t a complete process – Andropov was from a noble family, for example.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Dmitry
  263. @German_reader

    I think that due to a Western cultural bubble that most European countries were part of, that they were influenced by each other. USA being the dominant country in this cultural club also dominated this cultural sphere. This meant that ideas that “caught on” in USA could or would spread quickly to the rest of this Western culturals sphere. Allthough European countries would likely have some immigration based on “native” cultural influence.

  264. AaronB says:
    @AP

    However, if talented and ambitious people continually marry into the nobility, then the names will stay the same while the genetics will drastically shift every couple of generations.

    A noble family name may be seen as more like a corporation that is constantly hiring new people while retaining the same company name.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @AP
  265. @Talha

    Why is losing a war to Russia more dysgenic than losing a war to another country?

    • Replies: @Talha
  266. @Anatoly Karlin

    I would say the major change in modernity has been that the traditional landowning elites(and their traits) have been gradually deemphasized with the decreasing importance of agarian economic importance(and thus, traits such as martial valor, border fighting, etc) with the gradual rise of commercial and financial elites.

    Incidentally, how are you doing with Dark Lord of the Kremlin?

  267. There is a discussion of Mesoamerican human sacrifice and similar issues at Greg Cochran’s blog.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/06/25/tower-of-skulls/

    I channeled some thoughts of our two aristocratic interlocutors, AP and Daniel Chieh, without attribution, I hope they don’t mind.

  268. DFH says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Noblemen have to play court games and politics, being an idiot will lead to unpleasant results to put it lightly.

    Not true. Noble executions were very rare, even under the most tyrannical kings like Henry VIII, and could be avoided just by keeping your head down. A much bigger threat was probably downwards social mobility due to mismanagement or bad luck.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  269. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    This is a stereotype of people who were sent into distant schools with a few people of the demographic of the one of the people described in the original post.

    I don’t think this is relevant to people whose ancestors once included distant noblemen (which is just a significant proportion of the world population).

    This group are a small number of people who are often still living in the same houses, parents not normally with a typical pattern in their professional career, and kids who are stereotyped as below average in the classes.

    I personally have experience, with a German guy equivalent of this, who was the distraction clown on an course I have been in, so I am oriented to believe this could be same in the schools there (with all disclaimers about stereotypes being often false or legends).

    Political views or discussion of Soviet education system, or ancestors of Andropov, is a little distant.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  270. Talha says:
    @Rattus Norwegius

    Usually when you lose to Russia, you lose massively; ask the Tatars and the Germans.

    Though the Chechens actually got a boost from the Russians. What the Russians did by hauling them off to forced-labor camps in Central Asia basically killed off the weaker ones among them and the tougher ones survived to eventually come back.

    Suggested reading:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salusa_Secundus

    Peace.

  271. @DFH

    Well, it doesn’t usually result in death except when its quite unstable, such as during civil wars.

    But making too many enemies or getting a bad reputation can land one into increasingly unpleasant situations: being passed up for opportunities for gain, any contested land can now becomes much more enthusiastically contested by rivals, not being able to get letters of support/recommendation for one’s “good character” and so on.

    There certainly did not seem to be a lack of ambition among the elites. Consider the Earl of Essex who basically seemed to attempt to seize the throne violently at the first opportunity against Elizabeth I. There always seemed to be a remarkable contrast in the amazing degree of politeness by which the nobility addressed each other in communiques, and the viciousness by which their actions would show.

    • Replies: @DFH
  272. @Dmitry

    Was this in an Mexican university?

  273. AP says:
    @AaronB

    However, if talented and ambitious people continually marry into the nobility, then the names will stay the same while the genetics will drastically shift every couple of generations.

    Perhaps. OTOH, since the study was based on surnames, this would be about women marrying noble males, so if anything there might be downward pressure (i.e., men marrying women who might not be very bright, but attractive) that would compensate for the daughters of ennobled talented commoners marrying people from established noble families.

    However, I suspect intermarriage rates weren’t even very high. I have family trees going centuries and with the exception of some German officer’s daughter in the 1820s (her father had been enlisted, served in a famous unit during the Napoleonic wars, become an officer and was stationed in Galicia), no paternal ancestor had not been from a noble family. I don’t think this was rare, marrying commoners was looked down-upon.

    And the family (minor nobles) baseline was consistent, century after century – mid-level military officers, a judge, prosperous priests with a lot of land, with the occasional outliers (i.e., a general, two Metropolitans of the Greek Catholic Church, a guy who founded a political party). This, in a society where 95+% were peasants.

    Those who survived the horrors of the 20th century were doctors, master’s level engineers, tenured professors, etc. in 20th and 21st centuries. So people who were, not 1 percenters but perhaps 5-percenters, remained so no matter what the historical circumstances or where they settled. The Ukrainian diaspora is fairly wealthy so a lot of peasants’ grandchildren have caught up to us. This might have reflected artificial circumstances in the past, naturally there should be about 10% at the top not 5%.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Dmitry
  274. DFH says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Consider the Earl of Essex who basically seemed to attempt to seize the throne violently at the first opportunity against Elizabeth I

    That is not an accurate description of his revolt. He only attempted to rebel as a desperate, poorly-planned, last resort when he was about to be tried for various crimes and to have mortgaged properties seized by creditors. The rising is a good example of my point since after it, only seven people were executed, several of whom were of non-nole origin and/or catholics anyway. A better example would be Thomas Seymour’s plot, but that was anomalous.

  275. AaronB says:
    @AP

    Good points.

    As far as I understand it, there was a double process at work. Less capable members of the nobility were constantly declining into the lower classes, and rich merchants were extremely eager to have their daughter marrying into the nobility, which suggests they were not marrying less talented women.

    Often, the girls were quite ugly. There are lots of amusing novels written about this. Which brings me to my next point.

    This could have been a process of “punctuated equilibrium” – a great family can decline over several generations, and then receive a large infusion of new blood, fundamentally altering its genetics. This would be reflected in the history books, if at all, as a faint echo. It would probably be hard to assess the true magnitude of the phenomenon.

    It may be the nobility “renews” itself every few centuries – with the last great renewal occurring among the English in the 19th century, hence the many amusing novels written about this topic during this period.

    George Orwell wrote a lot about the decay of talent and ability in the nobility of his time – perhaps the first world war culled their ranks significantly, and at a moment when politics intervened to prevent a renewal, and make the decline irreversible.

    I have more to say but I gotta run.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  276. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Having in a family tree, famous people from 200 years ago, in the Soviet Union, where everything is now lost and people do normal professions – is not the same as actual kids we are talking about, who live (or decay) in the same mansion their family has for centuries.

    This is a demographic who can sometimes even just live all their life in the same houses, their family has built 400 years ago, and today often have more similar traits to rednecks than to intelligensia.

    -

    This is how the home life sometimes can look. Speech of the old man – difficult to understand.

    -

    There’s a reason the demographic are used for an entertainment and comedy television in the English world.

    The stereotype of this demographic is very not intellectual culture, and if you sent your children to school in England (a school which had this demographic), they would repeat this to you.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @AP
    , @Hyperborean
  277. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    Another process of infusion could have come from daring and talented adventurers being granted noble titles then marrying into established noble families down the line, as happened in Elizabethan England. This would not be reflected in the history books as nobles marrying commoners, but as marrying among themselves.

    There were also instances of noble titles being tied to place names – like the Duke Of York – and being granted to others through royal decree which would obscure the true lineage.

    I think the situation is incredibly complex and only a tiny fraction of it captured in the history books – for the obvious reason that nobles would try and suppress knowledge of such occurences. The literary record and anecdotal knowledge is probably a faint echo of the true magnitude of the phenomenon – just as people were shocked to find they had a Jewish ancestor, which the family hushed up.

    Prima facie evidence suggests the nobility increased in intelligence and refinement and changed in physical type dramatically – remember, they started out as rough warrior elite with robust physiques, not intellectual, and by the 18th century in England at least they were elongated and thin, with narrow faces and refined and delicate features. The commoners had the physique of warriors much more.

    So something obviously happened, something large scale and dramatic – the Norman Knight of the 12th century could hardly have been similar in physique or features or intellect to the tall, thin, narrow faced squire of the 18th century, who was also far more refined and intellectual.

    I am also not sure how much of an infusion is needed to have a dramatic effect. Ashkenazi Jews differ in appearance and behavior from Sephardic Jews dramatically while being highly related genetically.

    • Replies: @AP
  278. iffen says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    There’s a certain type of nationalist that has a fantasy of BASED proles taking over

    Are you referencing individuals or are there groups and political organizations that conform to this description?

    Even the Bolsheviks figured this out, though they had to put some lipstick on the pig

    I don’t think that they ever represented themselves as anything other than “the” vanguard.

    Look at Trump with his rallies and deplorables. Our path to power lies through the working class, but we’re not workers.

    Trump has demonstrated the ability to appeal to the working class. I would point out that the working class was able to identify Trump as an ally. One problem with the working class is that they sometimes also identify sewer pond scum types like Flake and Romney as allies.

    What the working class needs is alienated intellectuals and potential elites to take the lead.

    You didn’t answer my main concern. You seem to imply some sort of conflict between HBD and the working class political interests.

  279. utu says:

    I predicted that Russia would win against Saudi Arabia and Egypt (both happened), but would lose against Uruguay. We’ll see what happens tomorrow.

    Your pessimism was noted. Perhaps you underestimate Russia’s hidden powers. This is from 2010 scandal:

    FA chief Lord Triesman accuses Spain and Russia of bid to bribe World Cup referees

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2010/article-1278759/World-Cup-2010-FA-chief-Lord-Triesman-accuses-Spain-Russia-bid-bribe-referees-South-Africa.html

    ‘My assumption is that the Latin Americans, although they’ve not said so, will vote for Spain. And if Spain drop out, because Spain are looking for help from the Russians to help bribe the referees in the World Cup, their votes may then switch to Russia.’

    Spain dropped out and won the Word Cap in the SA. And Russia got the World Cup. Did the referees help Spain and were they bribed by Russian?

  280. @Dmitry

    According to pop culture, black scientists are revolutionizing the world.

    Aristocratic landowners are not rednecks, even if some of their talents are not as used these days. One of my best friends are descended from Georgian plantation owners, who indeed live on the same land as they did since before the Civil War. One of their houses was even built by one of them after the Depression; the man didn’t have a level and modified a car engine to drive the saw, so its kind of askew. Its still an impressive work.

    Some of them even maintain the agribusiness, though the patriarch mostly runs his own engineering company, my friend is a manager in a medical insurance company, and two members of their family have been in NASA. Just about every male that I can think of has served in the Air Force, which is not a low IQ job.

    Just for the agribusiness part: the “rednecks” are the ones working the land, they don’t own the land, the machinery or for that matter, the planes used for crop-dusting. The members of the family that run their agriculture business have advanced degrees – necessary in today’s highly technological farms.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  281. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    “Intellectual” is not the same as “intelligent”, and of course nobles would not have the same rules of politeness that striving up-and-comers have and would not feel compelled to say the right things (“acting like rednecks”); they have nothing to prove.

    People with titles and personal castles are beyond me; some cousin of my great-grandfather married into a family of German counts but other than facebook I don’t know them. They don’t seem dumb at all, though. At any, the data show that people from noble families demonstrate well above average educational attainment and incomes, suggesting they possess above average intelligence, on average.

  282. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    According to pop culture, black scientists are revolutionizing the world.

    Black people are not stereotyped as being intellectual though – on the contrary, everyone thinks they are stupid. There’s no demographic with a stronger stereotype for being stupid and anti-intellectual than blacks in America.

    Contemporary English aristocrats are stereotyped for being anti-intellectual.

    It’s not saying that empirically they would be below average intelligence – perhaps it is a legend.

    But this is a stereotype from their schools – and that it’s especially not considered the best people in those schools. And surely the best students in some of these schools now will be becoming Chinese.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/business/focus-best-of-british-as-elite-public-schools-tap-up-wealthy-chinese-pupils-a3662236.html

    • Replies: @AaronB
  283. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    Could simply be that as aristocrats they have nothing to prove. No need to be strivers. Aristocrats are known to have a studied flippant attitude to life, a sort of elegant indifference. They can afford it. Coming up in the world Chinese still have everything to prove.

    This, combined with resentment, may account for malicious stereotypes.

    Furthermore, the anti-posh attitudes in British culture may further be depressing their performance as a high performing aristocrat may be particularly galling and invite social censure.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  284. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    Among British Nobel prize winners, there are two people of noble origin (Bertrand Russell and Lord Rayleigh). Ignoring the guy who was awarded with a title as a politician.

    This is including a period across the 20th century, and people born in the 19th century, when the nobility had far more advantages compared to average and access to education and the best schools of entie country by far.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Nobel_laureates

    I don’t know, There’s even a Russian guy on this list (Novoselov), a Japanese (Ishiguro), two Indian (Ramakrishnan, Naipaul), a half-Lebanese (Medawar) and vast amounts of Jews in the same list.

    If there was any special intellectual talent in the nobility as a demographic – why is there only Bertrand Russell and Lord Rayleigh across this entire era?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Nobel_laureates

    Maybe they have “less to prove”? (A good explanation). But a really talented intellectually child would be discovered quite easily in the schools they attend and guided into science in many cases – at these schools.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @AaronB
    , @Thorfinnsson
  285. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Among British Nobel prize winners, there are two people of noble origin (Bertrand Russell and Lord Rayleigh).

    And Churchill – so there are 3 of them with noble origin.

    Although Churchill won mainly as a result of his political status.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  286. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    Actually, I would expect the aristocracy to be the last place to look for true geniuses.

    I consider genius to be heavily dependent on a kind of intense motivation bordering on pathology – and aristocratic life simply doesn’t create the psychological conditions -stresses – for that. They are far too genteel for that, far too refined. The intensity of genius is somewhat bad form, is it not. Likewise the monomania of genius – aristocratic life seeks to create the well rounded individual, the cultured and elegant man who is rather insouciant about the world.

    But the aristocracy must display an abundance of talented men, particularly practically gifted men, if it is to remain an aristocracy – and when it ceases to do so, it swiftly decays.

    However, I don’t believe the aristocracy maintains genetic integrity over centuries but rather periodically fundamentally alters its genetic character – as it must, because the tendency of any aristocracy is to grow more refined and elegant and removed from the rough and tumble of life, so that it must introduce a counter process if it is to retain any vitality at all.

  287. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Out of 129 British Nobel Prize winners, 3 have aristocratic roots (Winston Churchill, Bertrand Russell and Lord Rayleigh). Lord Rayleigh is only one to win a Nobel Prize in a scientific field (the other two are for literature).

    Of the 3 British Nobel prize winners who had aristocratic origin – the most recent to win was Churchill in 1953. (Bertrand Russell won in 1950, and Lord Rayleigh in 1904).

    So in the last 65 years (a few generations) there have not been British nobel prize winners with any aristocratic background. At least by this criteria, it’s not a demographic which is commanding the country’s intellectual heights – at least since 1953, if it had been different before.

    • Replies: @AP
  288. @Dmitry

    The stereotype of this demographic is very not intellectual culture, and if you sent your children to school in England (a school which had this demographic), they would repeat this to you.

    For what it is worth, what I have heard from people acquainted with top British academia (the ones I talked to were mainly harder fields ex. physics, chemistry) is that when comparing the quality of students those originating from the upper class are usually ordinary and not that impressive.

    Those students who stand out the most are usually those who come from upper-middle class.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  289. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    How do you exclude the others? Do you only mean titled nobility? Those are perhaps .1% of the British population, yet 2.3% of Nobel prize winners, so over 20 times over-represented despite this class as Aaron noted not having to be driven to do this stuff to that extent.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  290. AaronB says:
    @Hyperborean

    Those students who stand out the most are usually those who come from upper-middle class.

    Classic striver syndrome. The inbetweeners.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  291. @AaronB

    But if it causes them to be more motivated and raise the level of their work is that necessarily a bad thing?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @AaronB
  292. @Dmitry

    Britain’s tradition of scientific achievement emerged out of the nonconformists, who obviously were not noble, and emphasized scientific education far earlier than others.

    And you err in focusing just on the Nobels, as important as they are. The original example I provided of modern achievement of a noble was the Goodwood Festival of Speed. No one will ever get a Nobel for this. But it’s a great achievement.

    Likewise the richest billionaires in the UK include the Duke of Westminster, the Earl Cadogan, the Baroness Howard de Walden, and the Viscount Portman.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  293. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    But only 1 of the British nobel prize winners in science have aristocratic origin, which is Lord Rayleigh (which was 104 years ago).

    (Not counting people only with inherited aristocratic titles (which excludes Churchill), but people with aristocratic origin or ancestry).

    If you look into it, very many of the British nobel prize winners, are children of priests, doctors, teachers, etc.

    Of course, the number of British people with aristocratic background is very small relative to total British population – but it is not so small among the country’s elite schools and those who had access to the best education facilities (in much of this era), especially in the earlier part of the 20th century (at Oxford University and Cambridge University, people of this background very common in first half of the 20th century).

    Nobel prizes are awarded in elderly age, and so even encompass a section of the 19th century (Lord Rayleigh’s achievements were in the 1870s and 1880s), when aristocrats were a larger proportion at the elite universities. What proportion of students at Trinity College Cambridge, for example, were noblemen in the first half of 20th century? I believe it was significant proportion. Today it will bea much smaller fraction, but after the introduction of competitive entrance admissions (not being sure what year this was?).

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @LondonBob
  294. @Hyperborean

    Depends on what they work on.

  295. @Dmitry

    Britain’s aristocracy is very small owing to long-term primogeniture.

    Prior to the end of the Ancien Regime British lords liked to joke about France:

    “Everyone’s a count, but no one counts for much.”

    Hat tip Potemkin…Karlin knows who I mean.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  296. AaronB says:
    @Hyperborean

    Not at all. I just think the role of motivation is underappreciated. I didn’t mean to sound contemptuous.

  297. AP says:
    @AaronB

    Another process of infusion could have come from daring and talented adventurers being granted noble titles then marrying into established noble families down the line, as happened in Elizabethan England. This would not be reflected in the history books as nobles marrying commoners, but as marrying among themselves

    1. Sure, but this process was very rare.

    2. The way they attained this status would have been recorded.

    Prima facie evidence suggests the nobility increased in intelligence and refinement and changed in physical type dramatically – remember, they started out as rough warrior elite with robust physiques, not intellectual, and by the 18th century in England at least they were elongated and thin, with narrow faces and refined and delicate features.

    Refined, sure, but elongated, thin or weak? I doubt it. Many were in the military.

    Here’s a random British one:

    I don’t think princes Harry or William are weak-looking.

    Prince Boris Golitsin:

    Speaking of science, he “invented electromagnetic seismograph in 1906. He was one of the founders of modern Seismology. In 1911 he was chosen to be the president of the International Seismology Association. ”

    The commoners had the physique of warriors much more.

    They had poorer diets so were probably smaller and perhaps weaker.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  298. AaronB says:
    @AP

    Commoners were definitely much, much shorter. The most noticeable thing about lords was their height.

    There was a good article a while back about how the aristocratic male ideal in Jane Austen is nothing like the muscular Alpha types that play them in today’s movies.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/academics-reveal-mr-darcy-would-have-looked-like-not-think/amp/

  299. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    the richest billionaires in the UK include the Duke of Westminster,

    It’s simply from inheriting the land where there are built many apartment buildings in Mayfair and Belgravia.

    You know London property prices have escalated to the skies, especially area Mayfair and Belgravia – really Russia (or Russian capital flight) is responsible for this a lot in recent years.

    I believe my cat could have achieved this business success, if she had been born with the correct inheritance documents giving her landownership in Mayfair and Belgravia.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  300. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Britain’s aristocracy is very small owing to long-term primogeniture.

    People with the aristocratic titles will be very limited indeed. But the number descended from those, or family members of those, will be a lot larger.

    Biographies of Nobel prize winners do not indicate people of this background (of any aristocratic background), except Lord Rayleigh, Winston Churchill and Bertrand Russell.

    Rayleigh and Russell were inheriting family titles as first sons. Churchill – not, because – although his paternal grandfather was a Duke of Marlborough – Churchill’s father only a third son of this Duke.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  301. @Thorfinnsson

    Correct (on both counts).

    As I recall, on the eve of the French Revolution, there were 4,000 British nobles (out of 9 million) and 200,000 French nobles (out of almost 20 million).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @DFH
    , @Dmitry
  302. @Daniel Chieh

    What is Microsoft and their licensing agreements? What are venture capitalists?

    Right. But Bill Gates is himself just another hired employee, he doesn’t personally own Microsoft’s IP.

  303. @Anatoly Karlin

    In the Kingdom of Hungary by the 19th century 5% of the population was noble, though I think this number includes the “collective nobility” of a few groups like the Hajdú, who weren’t really nobles. Even most of the individual nobles had no wealth and lived like peasants, albeit with somewhat less duties and obligations.

    The reason is that in Hungary nobility was inherited by all children, not just the eldest son. So lots of downward mobility.

  304. @Anatoly Karlin

    Even on this very board, which is full of high quality people, at least two three – AP, Thorfinnsson, and Daniel Chieh – have impressive aristocratic pedigrees.

    It’s only a sample size of three, but AP is the dumbest poster here, bar none. Theory of aristocratic excellence not confirmed.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  305. DFH says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    As I recall, on the eve of the French Revolution, there were 4,000 British nobles (out of 9 million) and 200,000 French nobles (out of almost 20 million).

    What does ‘nobility’ mean here? By 1789 it did not correspond to any formal English social division. According to Joseph Massie, there were 2070 titled/squires with an income of £800+ a year, 4800 gentlemen with an income of £400-800 and 11,000 with an income of £200-400.
    The proliferation of French titles and nobles is due to venality.

  306. @Dmitry

    “A fool and his money are soon separated.”

    To keep concentrated money within the family for centuries is in fact a considerable achievement. Typically fortunes are squandered in three generations.

    No one is crediting the Duke of Westminster with being an entrepreneurial hero.

    And there’s more to this than mere IQ. You can pickup a weekend copy of the Financial Times and enjoy reading How to Spend It. Lots of rich people, perhaps most, simply choose to spend most of the money they have.

    Meanwhile the traditional nobility took such a k-selected view that they focused on build a base of wealth and power which would endure for centuries or longer.

    This has weakened in them along with everyone else of course in our R-selected world. One can see the ongoing decline of the House of “Windsor” in the past generation for instance. First stooping to divorce, then allowing your tart of a wife to flash the press, and finally marrying a divorced elderly mulatta with gray hair.

    Granted, European royalty started decaying before European nobility simply as a result of losing their active role. If your job is basically to be some kind of lifetime TV celebrity you’re not going to do much other than look good on camera.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  307. @Dmitry

    You keep doubling down on Nobel prize winners. Britain’s scientific tradition specifically stemmed out of the nonconformists and their independent schools. There’s more to accomplishment than this as repeatedly pointed out to you. Success in business, politics, war, etc.

    But to humor you:

    Looking at a list of German Nobelists I count seven noblemen out of 108 prize winners. That’s over six percent (far beyond their population share), and the German list also includes a number of German Jews.

    I chose Germans because German nobles are very easy to identify and German nobles made a decision in the 19th century to enter into trade, engineering, and science. They also preserved their active role in government down to 1918 and in some respects to 1945.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  308. Is there a Russian ebay (ebay owned and operated by Russians)?

    If not – why?

    • Replies: @LatW
  309. LatW says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Sberbank and Yandex are building an ecommerce platform (to compete with Alibaba) , but they’re having issues accessing the right type of executive talent (they should tap into their own pool).

    https://www.ft.com/content/3c215bbe-e000-11e7-a8a4-0a1e63a52f9c

  310. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Correct (on both counts).

    As I recall, on the eve of the French Revolution, there were 4,000 British nobles (out of 9 million) and 200,000 French nobles (out of almost 20 million).

    The ones with titles will be a small demographic.

    However, the demographic with aristocratic origins will be a lot larger.

    Recently, both the leader of the British state (1), and the leader of the British economy (2) were grandchildren and children of English nobles.

    1. David Cameron

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_David_Cameron

    2.George Osborne

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Peter_Osborne,_17th_Baronet

    -

    English aristocrats are over-represented in control of the country, to an extent of having the two most powerful positions in the country (until 2016).

    At the leading universities (until later 20th century), they were heavily represented. Trinity College Cambridge, would be contain a large segment of students of this demographic, until maybe the 1930s, or 1940s (when did they introduced competition of admissions?).

    They had a special rank at the university (the first son does not pay tuition, but the second sons were commons and had to pay tuition).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commoner_(academia)#Commoners_at_Cambridge

    To be a gentleman was one of the typical groups in the college (which has won the most nobel prizes of all):

    Trinity or, for that matter, any other college, is practically a hot-bed of reaction from the social point of view. The young men regard all who are not technically ‘gentlemen’ as ‘cads,’ just as the Athenians counted all who were not Greeks as barbarians.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hyndman#Early_years

    -

    However, among British Nobel Prize winners in science – there is only one who has this origin mentioned in their biography, and he was 104 years past (Lord Rayleigh in 1904). (And Churchill and Russel, in literature).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country#United_Kingdom

    -

    How to explain this? By smallness of demography, it is not easy, as they were vastly overrepresented in the elite universities and centres of research, and as those with access to education.

  311. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    To keep concentrated money within the family for centuries is in fact a considerable achievement. Typically fortunes are squandered in three generations.

    No one is crediting the Duke of Westminster with being an entrepreneurial hero.

    I believe they just inherited documents giving them ownership of land in London. It is something that my cat could achieved.

    In a list of billionaires, from those who used the most skill, to those who used the least skill – this would be an example on the bottom of the list.

    -

    London is interesting though. To buy apartments, there is usually some kind of feudal aristocratic structure.

    To buy an apartment in London, you do not usually can buy the apartment fully, but often only buy a contract as a right to use the land (with some contract of 300 years or something) from the larger building.

    This creates some confusion, but fortunately owners of the apartments in the building together can organize, and buy the full ownership of the building together.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  312. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Success in business, politics, war, etc.

    But to humor you:

    Looking at a list of German Nobelists I count seven noblemen out of 108 prize winners. That’s over six percent (far beyond their population share), and the German list also includes a number of German Jews.

    I chose Germans because German nobles are very easy to identify and German nobles made a decision in the 19th century to enter into trade, engineering, and science. They also preserved their active role in government down to 1918 and in some respects to 1945.

    The situation can vary in different countries, where in some (for example, Prussian nobility), they successfully form a specialized labour class (e.g. particularly in the military leadership).

    The success of this specialized labour class in places like Prussia, probably shows some benefit of giving monopoly privilege to a particular group of people (Plato’s “Republic” would support these concepts).

    -

    However, the measurement of “success of nobles” becomes very weak, when you are measuring this by the fact people with a special privilege from birth to hold a certain job, are holding this certain job. (It is simply trivial that nobles were overrepesented at Cambridge University, when this university was partly designed to admit this demographic on the basis of their origins).

    In order to measure success, you need an area of comparison in which there is free (or at least freer) competition.

    -

    In the case of nobility qualities varying by country. This is very true.

    But the real key in terms of their quality, will be on the dimension of time (the length of noble status).

    The more recently created or elevated the nobility is, the more skills they will likely have.

    This can be seen probably with recently attained noble families, like F.A. von Hayek, or John von Neumann, becoming the intellectual elite of the 20th century.

    In this case, the nobel status itself is simply measuring that their parents were professionally successful people on a national level, and that the family was rewarded for this reason. Such a measure will highly correlate with abilities of the children.

    The longer ago the nobility was created (or given its status), the less skills and abilities (or intelligence), they will have.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  313. @Dmitry

    I believe they just inherited documents giving them ownership of land in London. It is something that my cat could achieved.

    Well, I don’t know about your cat, but I do know about Saudi Arabian princes who would have spent the money on the biggest yacht in the world or some renaissance paintings and similar.

    In fact, that’s what typical lottery winners do. Or football players.

    So even the seemingly stupid aristocrats have to be smarter than average.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  314. @Dmitry

    The more recently created or elevated the nobility is, the more skills they will likely have.

    Did you read The Son Also Rises? The Japanese samurai have apparently higher intelligence than the imperial aristocracy created in the late 19th century almost exclusively based on merit.

    • Replies: @AP
  315. AP says:
    @reiner Tor

    I agree with you.

    Dimitry seems to argue from the perspective of Lamarckian evolution – that intelligence atrophies over time across generations simply because its holders or their children don’t have to strive or grapple their way to the top. Unless there is a pattern of marrying dumb people from outside the group, or for dumber people within the group to reproduce more, there is no reason for this to occur within this group. And there is no evidence of that happening within the nobility on a large enough scale to really impact intelligence.

    So they may use their intellectual gifts to pursue science if duty calls, as among the Germans, or to organize and curate sophisticated cultural affairs, successful car races (as apparently the British ones did). But they still retain those abilities.

  316. Mikhail says: • Website
    @anonymous coward

    Likewise with JRL, as evidenced by this so-so at best piece, which sheds nothing especially new:

    https://thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com/2018/06/25/and-the-band-played-on/#more-146

  317. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    Well, I don’t know about your cat, but I do know about Saudi Arabian princes who would have spent the money on the biggest yacht in the world or some renaissance paintings and similar.

    In fact, that’s what typical lottery winners do. Or football players.

    So even the seemingly stupid aristocrats have to be smarter than average.

    He’s definitely not genius though. He invites the prostitutes (from Lithuania) openly to his house, where media are photographing them going into the door, and can ask them for a story afterwards – apparently he tells them about things like Bin Laden

    https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20070212/281870113971350

    Not any less stupid stories, than of any Saudi Arabian princes. The British openly see him as stupid and write this word about ten times in the article.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @reiner Tor
  318. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    The same article above is also joking about how bad his academic scores were at school. It’s clear that he is not considered to be a brilliant intellectual or scholar.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  319. Mikhail says: • Website

    A blatant lie by RFE/RL:

    https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-envoy-postpones-srebrenica-visit-after-dispute-with-mayor/29322098.html

    Some 8,000 Muslim men and boys were executed by Bosnian-Serb forces who overran the town of Srebrenica in July 1995, during the 1992-95 Bosnian war. It was the worst act of genocide in Europe since the end of World War II.

  320. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Overlapping inbreeding (probably far worse than this immediate picture though, as the highest ranking families probably intermarried many times with each other over centuries, to the extent it becomes almost a single family – like a single “clan”).

  321. Anon 2 says:
    @melanf

    Thank you for the map! So, except for the Moscow region, western Russia
    (in fact, much of the European Russia) is poorer than average. I wonder
    how much of this is due to historical factors

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  322. Anon 2 says:
    @Beckow

    I’m curious – why are you so anti-Polish? Poland barely notices that Slovakia even
    exists – separated as it is by a mountain range. In contrast to Hungary, Slovakia
    played virtually no role in Poland’s history. We are much closer to the Czechs and
    to the Polabian Slavs (who, of course, are almost extinct but still speak a language
    very close to Polish) – e.g., those who live in the Bautzen (Budziszyn) district in
    Saxony. I personally know very little about Slovakia, but certainly have no
    negative feelings toward the country.

    As to your second point, the present Russian system is closer to being autocratic
    than democratic. It’s certainly more illiberal than the illiberal democracies
    currently present in Poland and Hungary.

    • Replies: @AP
  323. Anon 2 says:
    @Mitleser

    The exact figures are hard to come by but, based on its below replacement
    fertility rate, Germany is losing 200,000 – 250,000 ethnic Germans a year.
    There’s of course also emigration.

    Due to the 500+ program (about $125 a month for each additional child
    beyond the first), Poland has rather quickly raised its abysmal TFR to
    something more manageable, about 1.45, and its TFR is still continuing
    to rise. Hence the program, although very expensive, appears to be
    working.

  324. Dmitry says:
    @Anon 2

    A lot of money (and even human resources) are thrown on Moscow. GDP per capita and most development indicators in Moscow, are comparable with Germany or England.

    But if you are in a city like e.g. Saratov, then you are quite a long way from an economy like Germany or England.

    Even ignoring urban vs rural differences, it can be differences in economic fortune of different cities in the same country, are larger than differences between cities of different countries. As always it was though, and in America there is the same phenomenon, although it would be interesting to see a comparison with the situation in America, and whether differences are the same scale.

    • Replies: @AP
  325. AP says:
    @Anon 2

    Because Poles believe in stuff like honor and courage and those that do not resent it and hate those that do. I don’t mean Slovaks generally but some poster particularly.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    , @utu
  326. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Someone in Moscow will typically live much better than someone in some provincial city if they have the same profession. Someone in New York will make more than someone with the same profession in a provincial city, but will live worse because the difference will not be great enough to compensate for the higher prices. This is true for most professionals. Of course, there are particularly high-paying jobs in fields such as finance that don’t exist in cities other than New York, and those people are rich.

    So for example, the average salary for a mechanical engineer in New York is $71,100.

    https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/new-york-city-mechanical-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM615_KO14,33.htm

    In Columbus Ohio it is $68,100, only $3,000 less.

    https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/columbus-mechanical-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,8_IM196_KO9,28.htm

    In Brooklyn one can buy this flat for $425,000:

    It has one bedroom.

    In Columbus Ohio one can buy this house for $390,000 (it’s in a suburb with good schools):

    It has 5 bedrooms.

    • Agree: Dmitry
  327. Anon 2 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Re: Aristocratic origin

    In an exchange with AP I once mentioned that I was descended from Polish nobility,
    complete with a coat of arms, etc. (by the way, don’t blame me for “liberum veto”!).
    It’s something I don’t emphasize because I can stand on my own achievements.
    I’m also the author of a number of books published by New York publishers, and
    translated into many languages. But when your life’s motto is “Nulla dies sine
    linea,” and you’ve lived as long as I have, you eventually get a well-deserved sense
    of accomplishment. In fact, that’s a splendid formula for success – live long, and keep
    adding to your accomplishments everyday, even a little bit helps. And don’t let women
    deplete your Life Force. I always found that I get along much better with women
    who are my personal assistants than those women who have been my wives or
    auditioning to be my wife.

  328. @Anon 2

    The large green areas in Siberia tend to be very low populated oil & gas producing areas. They also need to have higher incomes because the costs of living there are higher.

    Central (around Moscow) Russia is not poor, relatively speaking.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  329. @Dmitry

    Not any less stupid stories, than of any Saudi Arabian princes.

    Spending tens of thousands of dollars on prostitutes is certainly way less stupid than spending a billion dollars to buy one yacht and one painting. (The painting cost $450 million and the yacht $550 million.)

    Was this the most stupid thing this guy ever did? He certainly didn’t seem to spend much money on buying off presstitutes at the Daily Mail, I’m not sure if it was smart, but maybe having Dmitry badmouth him on a comment thread is the worst consequence to come out of this.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  330. LondonBob says:
    @Dmitry

    Correct, the bourgeoisie puritan middle class are the achievers, have been since before they won the civil war.

    Give me a plain russet coated captain who knows what he fights for and loves what he knows, than that which you call a gentleman.

  331. Poland bends…

    https://sputniknews.com/europe/201806271065817786-holocaust-poland-law-changes/

    While disappointing, it was perhaps not the right sword to die on.

  332. Germany out at the World Cup, Germans never seem to be able to win in Russia, lol.

    Okay, maybe a German team would’ve been able to do something. But with almost a fifth of the team rooting for Erdogan, it was difficult. Boateng could’ve put an end to the team’s misery earlier, if the penalty was awarded to the Swedes when it should’ve been awarded. Then they’d have lost against Sweden, too.

  333. PAIN AND HUMILIATION!

    Although on the plus side, German_reader gets his wish.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @reiner Tor
  334. @Anatoly Karlin

    Is it so bad? Özil played in the last match, as did Khedira (he was one of the weakest).

    To be honest, I have nothing against Germany, but I wouldn’t have wanted them to win, even if they were as white as they were in 2014. They didn’t seem so motivated (already a problem in 2016 during the Euro Cup), and it’s not very healthy if the same team wins twice in a row. Such humiliation is in order occasionally, to teach a lesson. That’s football.

  335. Losing in Russia comes naturally to Germans.

    • Agree: German_reader
    • Replies: @Mikhail
  336. @Anatoly Karlin

    Wait… did you actually support the German National Football Team? Why? I supported them four years ago. But now?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  337. @reiner Tor

    What? No, I didn’t.

    Just saying that it must have been painful and humiliating for Germany supporters.

    Not supporting anyone, actually. My only wish is that England doesn’t win.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  338. @Anatoly Karlin

    I have a few wishes:

    - Russia loses against Uruguay (so that the stupid rumors of doping will be put to rest; they mightily annoyed me a few days ago, when my colleagues kept talking about it, and I don’t want them to return)

    - Argentina to lose as soon as possible, I don’t like Messi

    - Spain to lose; I don’t like them so much, and they’ve won in 2010 anyway

    - Switzerland to lose; despicable “we’re not racist, see, Lichtsteiner also did the Albanian eagle sign” cucks (the actual Swiss), or Kosovo Albanians with the odd African etc. (the rest)

    - Brazil not to win; they’ve already won five times, and this is not their best team

    - no European multi-kulti team to win; Croatia or even Serbia (though they’ll most likely be out tonight, but who knows) would be okay

    I support Croatia now, I don’t like the Serbs (though they’d have deserved to win against the Swiss – should’ve been awarded a penalty at 1-1), but I’d accept a Serb win. Or any other team could win for all I care.

  339. By the way Serbia seems to be a good team.

  340. The Aztecs and Maya certainly had many flaws, but at least they had sound ideas about how to deal with the losers in their ball games.
    Sad that the German team won’t get that treatment.

  341. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    Spending tens of thousands of dollars on prostitutes is certainly way less stupid than spending a billion dollars to buy one yacht and one painting. (The painting cost $450 million and the yacht $550 million.)

    Yachts are also investments (I believe they increase in value like hypercars do), and paintings by famous artists increase in value (it’s one of the most profitable investment types).

    If Duke was smart, he would have bought that yacht, where he could meet his prostitutes somewhere in the ocean, instead of in view of journalists at his family house, in one of the main streets in London, where they were probably even dressed in over-top prostitute fashions and the neighbours are taking photos.

    Was this the most stupid thing this guy ever did? He certainly didn’t seem to spend much money on buying off presstitutes at the Daily Mail, I’m not sure if it was smart, but maybe having Dmitry badmouth him on a comment thread is the worst consequence to come out of this.

    Thanks – I accept the compliment.

    Although considering it was the main theme of his Obituary in Times of London…

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/prostitute-scandal-blemished-charity-work-ccq8crgxm

    The English people really seem to write about him as if he is some kind of tragic fool – in every article about him.

    A billionaire position in the UK which involved the least skill (Duke of Westminster), seems to result with the lowest or most mediocre standards of human resources in the individual people holding the position.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  342. Anon 2 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Good. Russia deserves a sense of normalcy after a horrible 20th century.
    I already mentioned a young Polish fellow, married to a beautiful Russian
    woman (they met in Brazil), who in his blog often mentions how much
    he enjoys living in Moscow. His father-in-law drives him around and his
    mother-in-law makes him soups. His wife has some Polish ancestry, which
    is not uncommon in Russia. Both, however, want to move to warmer climes
    at some point.

  343. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    Because Poles believe in stuff like honor and courage

    LOL….whereas Czechs,Slovaks and Hungarians maintain and in fact increase their population, Poland has a big leakage of it’s own population and parasites off numerous countries ,with millions of their people in the UK and Germany.

    [MORE]

    whereas Czechs,Hungarians and Slovaks give just as much to the EU in money as they take out, Poland does the exact opposite

    Whereas countries like Russia have proud and courageous military history, Poland has a shit and disgusting military history that is the direct opposite of “honour and courage”, not only in WW2 ( that the Poles can blame nobody but themselves, and would have been destroyed but for Soviet heroism and liberation)…but pretty much all throughout their pitiful military history when they have been instigating or participating in war perpetually , except when under Russian guidance

    whereas as czechs,hungarians and Slovaks ( and even Romanians) don’t come to the UK to be masters in human trafficking, violent robbery’s, drink driving and murder ( more Poles in jail, by some distance, in the UK then Pakistani’s and Indians……even though there are a few million Pakistani’s and Indians in the UK!)….Poles are “experts’ at criminality in the UK

    “honour and courage”…what an attention-whore imbecile

    • Troll: reiner Tor
  344. Dmitry says:

    Relationships with the US are going to normalize soon?

    Trump’s adviser, US National Security Adviser Bolton was meeting today in the Kremlin.

    Putin says that he expects steps to normalize relations, which are currently not in a good form.

  345. @Dmitry

    President Putin should at least get some formal promises from the US side, to prove that it is not merely the usual meaningless talk from the US.

  346. Mikhail says: • Website
    @reiner Tor

    Poland also hasn’t fared well.

    Fraternal Serbia played well enough to beat Switzerland and was respectable enough in its loss to Brazil.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  347. Gerard2 says:
    @Dmitry

    The entire US policy to Russia is based on a lie
    The entire US policy on Georgia,Moldova and of course Ukraine….is based on several lies

    Wouldn’t suprise me if the US offer is for Russia to stop doing the things it views as against American interests , in exchange for……..the US saying a couple of nice things about Russia and the world cup, or perhaps something Oligarch related, maybe something on Syria

    but in terms of Crimea, Ukraine, Abkhazia,Priednistrovie, numerous Russians “guests” of the US “Justice” system, and sanctions in general……..absolutely nothing

  348. @Mikhail

    Fraternal Serbia played well enough to beat Switzerland

    They would’ve deserved a victory, but they lost.

  349. @Gerard2

    whereas Czechs,Slovaks and Hungarians maintain and in fact increase their population

    Nope, our populations are in freefall, too, Hungary has both a low birth rate and a high emigration rate problem. The Czechs have the least emigration, from what I gather, though recently Polish emigration rates dropped as well.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  350. @Gerard2

    Poland has a shit and disgusting military history that is the direct opposite of “honour and courage”

    I don’t know what you are trying to achieve here. Creating a bad impression of yourself? Then you’re successful.

  351. Mikhail says: • Website

    Peters-Figliuzzi CNN/MSNBC BS

    With James Clapper and Ralph Peters, CNN is top heavy with anti-Russian propaganda:

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/06/retired-lt-col-warns-john-bolton-stop-infant-child-trump-meeting-putin-alone-president-cant-trust/

    Vladimir Putin invaded a neighboring country twice. He assassinates dissidents. He assassinates journalists. His force has committed untold atrocities in Syria. He’s worked to undermine our election, undermine European elections with quite a bit of success. But we need people to ride herd on this president. It is a very, very tough job. This is going to be a test for John Bolton as to his integrity and ethics. Now he is, for as long as I have known him, he has been tough on Russia, tough on Putin.

    The infant child in manner Peters has some gall. Like being rude will somehow produce better results. Brian Williams’ MSNBC show offered the same BS in a segment featuring Michael McFaul and Frank Figliuzzi. The latter is very much on par with Peters, with McFaul not providing a substantive offset.

    http://www.msnbc.com/brian-williams/watch/trump-finally-gets-the-summit-with-putin-he-s-been-wanting-1265781827870

    McFaul suggested that Putin by default wins by just having a summit with Trump – as if Putin is somehow internationally locked up, which is clearly not the case. In point of fact, some are reasonably wondering if it’s really in Putin’s interests to have such a meeting, given the kind of anti-Russian and anti-Putin theatrics, that will be evident in the background (WaPo, NYT, CNN, MSNBC, et al), which has been constantly critical of Trump advocating improved US-Russian ties. To date, Trump has fallen short of his stated campaign desire regarding Russia.

    Concerning a good deal of the BS spouted by Peters and Figliuzzi (their ongoing mantra about Russia interfering in foreign elections being BS as well):

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/17/dnc-kiev-regime-collusion-isnt-americas-best-interests.html

    Excerpt –

    Fox News host Tucker Carlson, received well deserved praise for taking to task the permeating anti-Russian biases. The highlight of Carlson’s exchanges was his encounter with Ralph Peters, who for years has spouted grossly inaccurate propaganda against Russia. Antiwar.com and Russia Insider, are among the counter-establishment English language venues commenting on the Carlson-Peters discussion. The US foreign policy establishment realist leaning National Interest carried a lengthy piece on Carlson’s challenge to the neocon/neolib foreign policy perceptions. For the record, more can and should be said in reply to Peter’s comments.

    Peters falsely claims that Russia hasn’t made a concerted effort in confronting ISIS. In one of his more accurate moments, CNN’s Wolf Blitzer said that the ISIS claimed shoot down of a Russian civilian airliner over Egypt, was in response to Russia’s war against ISIS. You’ve to be either a liar or clueless to not recognize why Russia has actively opposed ISIS. The latter sees Russia as an enemy, while having a good number of individuals with roots in Russia and some other parts of the former USSR.

    Peters’ characterization of Russia targeting civilian areas is disingenuous. Over the years, the matter of collateral damage is something periodically brought up in response to those killed by US and Israeli military actions.

    Peters offers no proof to his suspect claim that Russian President Vladimir Putin kills journalists. There’re numerous anti-Putin advocates alive and well in Russia. That country does have a violence problem. Recall what the US was like in the 1960s thru early 1970′s. For that matter, Bernie Sanders isn’t blamed for the pro-Sanders person who attempted to kill Republican lawmakers.

    Given the situations concerning Kosovo and northern Cyprus, Peters is being a flat out hypocrite regarding Crimea. Donbass is a civil conflict involving some Russian support for the rebels, who’re overwhelmingly from the territory of the former Ukrainian SSR. These individuals have a realistic basis to oppose the Kiev based regimes that came after the overthrow of a democratically elected Ukrainian president.

    During the American Revolution, most of the pro-British fighters were said to be colonists already based in America. Furthermore, the American revolutionaries received significant support from France. With these factors in mind, the Donbass rebels don’t seem less legit than the American revolutionaries.

    Some Kiev regime elements positively reference the 1995 Croat ethnic cleansing of Krajina Serbs (known as Operation Storm) as a solution for ending the rebel position in Donbass. Russia doesn’t seek a massive refugee problem in Donbass and some other parts of the former Ukrainian SSR. As is, a sizeable number of Ukrainian residents have fled to Russia.

    Putin isn’t anti-US in the manner claimed by Peters. Moreover, Peters is clearly more anti-Russian (in a narrow minded way at that) than what can be reasonably said of how Putin views the US. Putin’s obvious differences with neocons, neolibs and flat out Russia haters isn’t by default anti-US. He was the first foreign leader to console the US following 9/11. The Russian president has been consistently on record for favoring better US-Russian ties (even inquiring about Russia joining NATO at one point), thereby explaining why he has appeared to have preferred Trump over Clinton.

    Some (including Trump) disagree with that view, which includes the notion that the Russians (by and large) prefer predictability. As a general rule this is otherwise true. However, Clinton’s neocon/neolib stated views on Russia have been to the point where many Russians felt willing to take a chance with Trump, whose campaign included a comparatively more sympathetic take of their country. At the same time, a good number of Russians questioned whether Trump would maintain that stance.

  352. @Dmitry

    I don’t know about yachts increasing in value (are they collector items? I think they’re too expensive for that), but their operating costs are considerable:

    “An industry rule of thumb is that annual operating costs will be somewhere between 7% and 10% of the yacht’s value so yacht ownership is a substantial on-going commitment, not just a one-off splurge.”

    I’m sure the dumb Saudi prince could’ve had better use for his money than that. Meanwhile, the late Duke of Westminster kept his wealth tied up in real estate, which truly does increase its value. So again, if the Duke of Westminster was really dumber than an Arab prince, then how did he keep and even increase his fortune?

    “There are more than 2,000 pre-owned super yachts on sale and many offer excellent re-fit potential. With the money they have saved, owners can customize the yacht to suit their own tastes and still spend less than buying new – as long as they resist the temptation to re-design the boat completely.”

    So actually yachts don’t seem to increase in value.

    The English people really seem to write about him as if he is some kind of tragic fool – in every article about him.

    And how is that relevant? Since when has journalists’ opinions become the gold standard of whether someone is a fool or not?

    Those articles are written by journalists (not “the English people”), a very dumb species, and it’s probably a result of the Duke not having paid protection money to the press.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Dmitry
  353. White Brits set to become minority in Birmingham, report reveals

    https://www.rt.com/uk/431058-birmingham-muslim-ethnic-white/

    Interesting days…

  354. @Thorfinnsson

    When I was a teenager and a family friend came to visit, an acquaintance of his (and a complete stranger to my family) invited all of us plebeians to the local yacht club for dinner. The menu had no prices printed on it, which made us rather uncomfortable. In the end, however, we decided the most graceful thing to do was order the steak and lobster without making a big deal about the expense.

  355. @Daniel Chieh

    The Eye of Soros cannot destroy what it cannot find.

    Well, doesn’t NRx have the Hand of Thiel? But who really controls the Palantir?

    read old books, live well, and get into a position of influence.

    I do read many old books, though the intersection between my library and Moldbug’s is, I suspect, small. I am however content for my influence to remain scientific and communal rather than political, so I am unlikely to be found by either the Eye of Soros or the Hand of Thiel.

  356. utu says:
    @AP

    There are certainly differences between the national ethos of Poles and that of Czechs or Slovaks which certainly influence their decisions and actions. The differences are mostly due to different histories. Poles and Czechs see each other with both some degree of contempt and admiration. For example in the Closely Watched Trains based on Bohumil Hrabal’s story the station master kills his German breed pigeons and replaces them with a Polish breed as a sign of a homage to Poles who unlike Czech or Slovaks resisted Germans. The young protagonist in the movie dreams of heroism because he wants to impress a girl not to fight for the country. In the Slovak film The Shop on Main Street the Slovak protagonist is greedy and cowardly but he hangs himself when he recognize that what he has been doing and what he has done in relation to the deportation of Jews. Aspirations for a transcendental heroism is universal. Even among the down to earth realists like Czechs and Slovaks. Whether there was a real Anton “Tóno” Brtko who killed himself in Slovakia is another story. Hypocrisy is the homage vice pays to virtue. Even in Slovakia.

    Poles are often envious of Czech’s ability to navigate through most recent history with much less pain and effort. There is a pretty good book about Czechs via Polish (gay) author’s eyes: Gottland: Mostly True Stories from Half of Czechoslovakia. It was a best seller in Czechia. The reason the book got so much exposure is because in Poland it was used to wean Poles off the Catholicism by showing Czechs who live seeming good or even better lives w/o a religion.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/23/books/mariusz-szczygiels-gottland-sees-a-surreal-czechoslovakia.html

    The Beckov guy is a Slovak version of a sovok. I had a remote ‘uncle’ in Czechoslovakia who was a big communist and who even participated in the so-called Slovak National Uprising but he did not exhibit the sovok attitudes like this Beckov creature. Czechs’ and Slovaks’ different attitude towards Russians (and later Soviets) stemmed form the fact that unlike Poles they were not familiar with Russians and Russia. They felt being traumatized by Germans from Austro-Hungarian empire and thus were susceptible to Russian psy-op of Pan-Slavism that the freedom will come from Russia. Familiarity breeds contempt. The song “Hej, Slováci” or Hej, Slaveni” or “Hej, Sloveni” written in 1834 was sang to the melody of Polish “Mazurek Dabrowski” (which later became Polish anthem to original lyrics written in late 18 century) but in Poland it never got any traction as Poles did not feel like they needed to fall back on some parochial Slavic identity as they had Catholicism as a more universal one and they recognized that Pan-Slavism is Russian imperial psy-op meme.

    • Replies: @AP
  357. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    I don’t know about yachts increasing in value (are they collector items? I think they’re too expensive for that), but their operating costs are considerable:

    Anything that is built in very high quality, in limited numbers, will behave like that. A superyacht is the ultimate example. (There’s only a couple built each year in the world).

    E.g. Elderly superyacht Christina O now costs €560,000 per week, to rent. (That is excluding operating costs – you still have to pay for the petrol)

    https://www.yachtcharterfleet.com/luxury-charter-yacht-23156/christina-o.htm

    The boat has cost several million to build in the 1940s.

    I’m sure the dumb Saudi prince could’ve had better use for his money than that.

    How? It is a much better investment than keeping money in other things.

    This is similar to hypercars.

    There is a reason there are years-long waiting lists for hypercars.

    Many investors will buy a hypercar, without ever seeing the car. It’s just purchased and placed into storage for a number of years. The value can increase multiple times in some years on supercars.

    The behaviour of the most expensive cars, is the opposite of what happens with normal cars. Normal cars decrease in value with passing years; the most expensive cars increase in value in the same time periods.

    Meanwhile, the late Duke of Westminster kept his wealth tied up in real estate, which truly does increase its value. So again, if the Duke of Westminster was really dumber than an Arab prince, then how did he keep and even increase his fortune?

    It’s not liquid asset. The kind of property rights he inherited are set for hundreds of years (people are leasing property in London with hundreds of years contract).

    It’s simply random that his family owns these in London – if they had inherited in a countryside area, their value may only be some millions of dollars.

    And how is that relevant? Since when has journalists’ opinions become the gold standard of whether someone is a fool or not?

    Those articles are written by journalists (not “the English people”), a very dumb species, and it’s probably a result of the Duke not having paid protection money to the press.

    Well aside from this conspiracy theory (“protection money to press”), it’s clear in the article (for example London Times), that the journalists were trying to be nice to him. There was simply nothing to report in his life apart from this story, which is what he was famous about.

    He does nothing interesting in his life and showed no special skills or abilities. There was no even interesting hobby to remember him with. He does not have to be a genius, to have done something like become a pre-Columbian archaeologist. But his personality and intellectual abilities seemed completely not interesting or probably lower than mediocre (his very low academic scores), and conventional.

    Maybe he was even a nice person that did not deserve the mocking, but he is not supportive of the human capital argument in the post I was responding that mentioned him as an example of high human capital in his class.

  358. Mitleser says:
    @Dmitry

    A waste of time.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  359. Dmitry says:

    Oops the “correct” word for the boats we are discussing is “mega-yacht”. Super-yachts can be almost mass produced.

  360. Mitleser says:

    Both are right.

  361. Mitleser says:
    @reiner Tor

    Births: 21,731 (-1.9%)
    Deaths: 36,623 (-6.0%)
    Balance: -14,892 (-11.0%)

    Marriages: 6,080 (-0.5%)

    TFR (for Q1) was estimated at 1.45, same as last year.

    http://www.ksh.hu/docs/eng/xftp/gyor/nep/enep1803.html

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=148858919&postcount=6350

    Time to open the gates?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  362. Dmitry says:
    @Mitleser

    The only real, objective problem of this (beyond if you want to raise armies, etc), is to the dependency ratio.

    This can be solved with things like raising retirement age.

    In fact, there is no need to increase immigration in relation to this issue. There is a need to increase length of working life.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  363. Dmitry says:
    @Mitleser

    There’s not that much real reason for conflict (sure, America will not accept the status of Crimea).

    Otherwise – it’s a lot of pretending to be angry and just trolling each other.

  364. Anon 2 says:
    @Gerard2

    Re: “Poland has a disgusting military history”

    Show Uncle Anon where Poland hurt you! Don’t be shy.

  365. AP says:
    @utu

    Thank you for the very perceptive and informative post.

  366. Mitleser says:
    @Dmitry

    raising retirement age

    That is unpopular, though.

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