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Open Thread 46
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My Romania post will hopefully be up in a few days.

In the meantime, I’ll share my impressions of the Sukhoi Superjet 100, which I flew for the first time on the way back from Bucharest.

Overall impressions: Meh. As densely packed as any Airbus, and way more vibrations and creaking sounds than the average flight (though I suppose I can’t extrapolate too much from n=1 flights). My favorite plane by far remains the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, which at least on Norwegian Airlines comes packed with individual monitors for entertainment and ordering food and drinks, and has free WiFi on many of its flights (and this was a couple of years ago). The Superjet 100 didn’t even have sockets to charge your cell phone or laptop with, which I consider to be a disgraceful omission in this day and age.

The next Kholmogorov translation from Fluctuarius Argenteus is going to be this one: Николай II становится для нас анти-Сталиным (“Nicholas II is becoming an anti-Stalin for us”).

***

Featured News

* Trump. Canada. Kim meeting. Etc. I gather nothing very interesting happened.

* Syria will probably start cleaning up Daraa in a matter of days. As I understand it, the Israelis are cool with it, so long as the Iranians aren’t involved.

* All football discussions go here.

* James Thompson: Who are the IQ experts?

iq-experts

I do wonder how the rankings would have changed since 2013 – probably not in my favor, since I have started writing much less about HBD/IQ stuff (in fairness, so has Sailer).

***

Russia

* Police search the apartment of a guy involved in the Dissernet project to detect plagiarism (of which at least 1/9 Duma deputies are guilty of). He might be charged under Article 282 (extremism).

This is great news, helping discredit that law even further.

* Ukraine comes dead last out of eight in Strong Europe Tank Challenge 2018 (an explanation from AP). Germany wins as usual.

* Another big corruption investigation [in Russian] from Navalny about Gazprom, based on the fired Sberbank analyst’s report.

***

World

* Sane nationalities/language policy:

***

Science & Culture

* Bernt Bratsberg & Ole Rogeberg (2018) – Flynn effect and its reversal are both environmentally caused (summary via James Thompson)

* Emil Kirkegaard & Bryan Pesta (2018) – An S Factor Analysis on the Provinces of Vietnam: Relationships with Cognitive Ability, Ethnicity, and Latitude

map-vietnam-iq

* Angela Nagle, who wrote Kill All Normies, is a plagiarist.

***

Powerful Takes

* /r/politics reaching levels of ROG that shouldn’t even be possible (via Greasy William):

levels-of-rog

* Einstein was waycist.

* Taleb goes full #frogtwitter:

* This entire thread, with me providing several of them: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/stalin-is-not-great/

***

 
• Category: Miscellaneous • Tags: Airports, Open Thread 
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  1. songbird says:

    I wonder what Taleb considers Med. I know he doesn’t like being called an Arab, and also, that there were a lot of Greek and Phoenician colonists in North Africa, but still any Übermenschen concept that includes the Levant and Southern Europe seems hard enough to justify without including North Africa.

  2. I’ve dropped this link before, but putting it here again since this is an open thread: http://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.com/2012/07/wwii-myths-t-34-best-tank-of-war.html

    The T-34 wasn’t nearly as good as people believe. It was probably inferior to the Sherman in fact.

  3. @songbird

    Taleb incorporates North Africa into his definition. He wants them to stop identifying as “Arabs”.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @AP
  4. @songbird

    I think that there are a lot of Christian Lebanese who identify more with Greece and Cyprus than with the middle east. Taleb certainly is one.

    North Africa, save Egypt, was historically “med”, but that changed after the rise of Islam. Similarly, Turkey and Syria used to be med but since have joined the middle east after Islam.

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
  5. Still haven’t flown on a 787. Going to India again in September and plan on getting there via 787.

  6. @Thorfinnsson

    The T-34 was like a lot of Russian military tech, superior in some ways but inferior in others.

    The German anti tank guns couldn’t penetrate T-34 armor. That is huge. The sloping armor was a great innovation. It was also easy to manufacture and maintain.

    But it was unreliable and lacked radios which had already become vital for armored warfare.

    This same pattern continues today. Look at the SU-57: it is vastly kinetically superior to anything that Europe has and probably even has a kinetic edge over the F-22. But it has poor reliability (relative to western aircraft) and its avionics and weapons are at least a decade behind western ones. It’s “stealth” is a total joke.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Pilgrim007
  7. @Greasy William

    The 3.7 cm Pak 36 couldn’t penetrate the T-34.

    The 5 cm Pak 38 could, though only at short range.

    In 1942 the 7.5 cm Pak 40 was introduced which could reliably penetrate the T-34 throughout the war. The same gun also equiped the PzKw IV (7.5 cm KwK 40) on the personal orders of the H-man.

    Sloping armor wasn’t a new invention first applied to the T-34. The T-34 was simply the first tank with all-around sloped armor, which required some design tradeoffs (reduced interior space and bad ergonomics).

    The Su-57 is quite new so its reliability isn’t something I’m prepared to judge. What’s wrong with its avionics or weapons? Unlike the F-22 it has IRST, cheek radars, and a tail radar. Carlo Kopp thought highly of it when it first appeared, unfortunately he stopped updating his magnificent website (http://ausairpower.net) more than four years ago.

    The Russians clearly made a conscious design choice to focus on maximizing the Su-57′s flight envelope over maximizing stealth. Probably Russia’s technological lead in VHF radar informed their choice. America in a way made a similar choice with the F-22, which was selected for production over the YF-23 which had superior stealth.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  8. @Greasy William

    He doesn’t want to identify with smelly barbarian desert nomads with their head chopping religion but rather with the lost civilization of antiquity. I can’t say I blame him.

    Everything to the West of Ctesiphon used to be part of the Hellenistic/Roman Pagan and later Christian World. From Alexander to Heraclius, it was a 900 year run all told. All of it forever obliterated by Islam and it’s bloodthirsty semitic tribal brigands. Europe held the line at Austria and Spain and was even able to recover some lost territories for a time. They have however managed to bypass those national geographic barriers and now Britain, France, Germany, and Sweden are the beacheads of the latest rounds of Mohammedan pillage.

    • Replies: @Anon
  9. @Thorfinnsson

    The Russians clearly made a conscious design choice to focus on maximizing the Su-57′s flight envelope over maximizing stealth.

    That’s what they say but what is more likely is that Russian industry isn’t capable of the precision needed to manufacture low RCS aircraft. That IRST bulging out of the front is a terrible sign. It means that the aircraft’s RCS is so high that adding the IRST didn’t materially increase the RCS.

    Look I like Russian aircraft. They show human ingenuity at it’s best but the limits of Russian industry are really starting to catch up with them.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  10. inertial says:

    You realize that your complaints about Superjet have nothing to do with the plane itself? The cabin is furnished according to the airline’s specifications, so this is who you should blame for the lack of monitors and USB sockets. Even the creaking is most likely caused by the cheap-ass interior plastic.

  11. @Greasy William

    “The German anti tank guns couldn’t penetrate T-34 armor”

    In ’41 the Germans used the 37mm pak, that was indeed useless against the T34, but the pak 75/40 L46 could take a T34 from at least 1 km. It was introduced at the beginning of ’42 and was still in use long after the war. The L48 version was also used on Pkw IV and other armored vehicles.

    • Replies: @NTN
    , @Anon
  12. songbird says:

    I’m honestly surprised to see Hui on that map in that location. I had no idea that they were so far into the heart of China. I guess maybe I shouldn’t be surprised because of Zheng He being an admiral, but, on another level, it seems so strange that Islam was able to make such inroads into China. I guess they were invited in – I am surprised.

  13. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Well, Iraqi Christians often don’t identify as Arabs, but as Chaldeans. They claim to be descendants of the original Babylonians who were conquered and swamped by the dirty Arabs coming from the south.

    • Replies: @Jayce
    , @gate666
    , @DFH
  14. @songbird

    I am far from an expert on China, as can be revealed by my name, but I did find this talk quite illuminating some years ago when I first stumbled upon it. It kindled my interest in China and made me deepen it by reading. I still don’t understand much of China, which is why it is a fascinating place.

    She has an interesting perspective. On the one hand she mocks the excessive obsession of ‘eurocentrism’ in many Western universities but at the same time, she criticises what she perceives as the stilted view of many Chinese historians who prefer a “continuous civilisation” narrative. She spends much of her talk vigorously questioning the latter Chinese narrative without trying to fall into a post-nationalist trap that about ‘imagined communities’ and similar tripe which is very much in fashion in Western humanities these days.

    The video is long, but I think you’d find it illuminating. The maps help drive her point home, but you could also just download the video and convert it and listen to it on your commute. It’s a good primer, though obviously far from sufficient when it comes to China’s identity and history and outgrowth as a nation.

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
  15. Jayce says:
    @AP

    Ethnically they refer to themselves as Assyrians, same as their neighbors in northwestern Iran and northeastern Syria. Chaldean is just a term for those whose churches are in communion with Rome after splitting from the Church of the East (the so-called Nestorian church) back in the 16th century. I think the only MENA Christians that call themselves Arabs these days are the Palestinians; traditionally the Orthodox in Lebanon and Syria were associated with pan-Arabism, but lately with stuff like Operation Antioch they’ve been focusing more on their Hellenic roots.

    • Replies: @songbird
  16. @songbird

    Hui doesn’t mean Chinese Muslim in this case. English use of pinyin doesn’t usually include tone markers. Hui in this case an abbreviation of Huizhou which was a historic prefecture. There are zero Muslims there. There used to be significant Chinese Muslim presence in Shaanxi, Yunnan, and Gansu but they were burned out and their numbers there are a fraction of what they were in the 19th century.

    • Replies: @songbird
  17. Sukhoi Superjet is comparable to Embraer not Airbus A320/Boeing 737 which are bigger planes and would be comparable to the upcoming MC 21.

    The interiors are the choice of the airline so can’t blame Sukhoi for that.

    The vibration/creaking noise well as a thumb rule the larger the plane the less likely it will be tossed around while in flight due to inertia So 747 will be more comfortable than 737 which will be better than an Embraer.I think it is as quiet as the Embraer E series jets which is in the same class size wise.

    The one serious mistake Sukhoi made was going for French Engines SaM 146 instead of US/UK Ones.

    Jet engines is one area of manufacturing where the Anglos reign supreme(GE,PW,RR).

    Russia has not made the same mistake with the MC 21 whose international version will have Pratt and Whitney GTF engines.These is an indigenous engine option as well PD 14 but that will not be competitive internationally vis a vis fuel efficiency

  18. Anonymous[149] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird

    Thats not Hui as in Hui Muslims, it’s Hui as in the Huizhou variant of Chinese.

  19. melanf says:

    The next Kholmogorov translation from Fluctuarius Argenteus is going to be this one: Николай II становится для нас анти-Сталиным (“Nicholas II is becoming an anti-Stalin for us”).

    Idiot Kholmogorov engaged in the glorification of Stalin. There is no better way to glorify Stalin than to oppose him Nicholas II.

    Probably Kholmogorov received a grant from the FSB to discredit the “Russian nationalism”. But why the fucking shame to re-translate into English – I do not understand

  20. The Superjet 100 didn’t even have sockets to charge your cell phone or laptop with

    As others have remarked, it’s the airlines’ choice. In my experience, short haul flights never have it.

    Probably you also never flew small planes, which are usually quite noisy, unlike bigger planes like the 777 or A380. The 787 has a further edge in that department due to its super low drag coefficient. The choice of interior materials is also important.

    So probably not that bad.

  21. @Vishnugupta

    The one serious mistake Sukhoi made was going for French Engines SaM 146 instead of US/UK Ones.

    It’s probably better to avoid Anglo cooperation, due to the risk of sanctions.

    I think back then the reason was that there was already a history of cooperation with the French, and they were probably more willing to share the technology and license local production.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  22. As densely packed as any Airbus, and way more vibrations and creaking sounds than the average flight

    The interior depends on the airline, not the airliner frame.

  23. @reiner Tor

    The French are phenomenal about sharing tech. If you are looking to partner with a country on a large scale project, France should be your first choice.

    The problem is that Uncle Sam can be very “persuasive” when he wants you to partner with American companies instead. So France ends up working with countries like Egypt, Russia, India and Brazil while being shut out of more lucrative contracts. Too bad.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
  24. @Thorfinnsson

    I’m not particularly qualified to opine on the qualities of individual tanks, though the blog post you cite seems well-researched and convincing.

    That said, if one had to condense it down to one point, I suspect that lack of radio would still be the #1, #2, and #3 problem.

    French tanks certainly were superior to German ones in 1940 – the SOMUA S35 had a bigger cannon and was better armored than any contemporary German tank. But without the doctrine or the radio sets needed for tight coordination, it was all for naught. Almost all German tanks were equipped with two-way radios by 1940, an emphasis that was in turn an outgrowth of their tank doctrine.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  25. @Vishnugupta

    Also @inertial, @reiner Tor,

    Thanks for the explanation.

    You realize that your complaints about Superjet have nothing to do with the plane itself?

    Legitimate point.

    But one problem is that Aeroflot accounts for approximately half the Superjet’s orders, so this would be reflective of experience of the plane as a whole.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  26. @Greasy William

    How?

    What have the French transferred technology wise to any other country that can be considered State of the Art?

    India was sold obsolete Viking rocket engine tech by the French which are used in its PSLV space launch vehicles.

    In state of the art stuff like Ardiden helicopter engine produced in India as the Shakti(For HAL LCH Attack helicopter) they let India do screw driver assembly and charge a heavy fee for that.All critical components are flown in from France.

    Much the same for Scorpene class SSK submarine being built in India where the French are again dragging their feet vis a vis TOT though this time we are delaying TOT milestone linked payments so they should come around.

    Also lacking economies of scale French tech is almost always more expensive and less advanced than their american equivalents.

    In contrast Russia allows India to produce very competent Su 30 Mki aircraft more or less from raw materials and gave us blue prints and tech help to produce advanced cryogenic engines for our Space launch vehicles in the early 1990s.

    We also produce state of the art Yakhont cruise missiles(as the Brahmos) and will soon produce hypersonic missiles as well Brahmos 2 etc.

    They also helped us design sub components of our Delhi/Kolkata/Vishakapatnam class destroyers.

    Oh and they lease us their state of the art Akula II Nuclear Attack Submarine so that we gain operational expertise and build up crews before our indigenous attack SSNs become operational early next decade.This is not the first time they have leased us nuclear subs(Nations are forbidden to sell N subs to each other so this long term leasing business was a work around)

    Now that is what we call a partner.

    US transferred Japan/France its nuclear reactor tech in the 1960s.

    UK transferred ship building tech to S Korea etc.

  27. gate666 says:
    @AP

    what was their estimated iq.

    • Replies: @AP
  28. @Anatoly Karlin

    lack of radio would still be the #1, #2, and #3 problem

    Perhaps, but being highly uncomfortable and having the commander also be the gunner were also big disadvantages.

  29. @Anatoly Karlin

    this would be reflective of experience of the plane as a whole

    All small planes are like that, in my experience. I only like big and recently built planes like the 777, 787, and the A380.

  30. DFH says:
    @AP

    And Romans and Medieval Britons believed they were descended from the Trojans

    • Replies: @AP
  31. How?

    They resurrected your Kaveri engine program. Russia didn’t even offer even after you put down billions to co develop the SU-57.

    What have the French transferred technology wise to any other country that can be considered State of the Art?

    They let you build the entire Rafale.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
  32. NTN says:
    @Pilgrim007

    You’re all ignoring the Christie Suspension which allowed high overland travel speeds.

    The Red Army exploited any holes in the German lines by pouring all their reserves into any penetration. “Reinforcing Success”

    Yes the armor was great and they were easy to manufacture, but their overland travel speed combined with Soviet Doctrine is what won the war. It’s not having the best tank, it’s having the best combination of quality, quantity and doctrine. The Red Army clearly had that, in spite of Stalin’s best efforts …

    Arguably Mr. Christie is most influential Mechanical Engineer of 20th Century …

  33. AP says:
    @gate666

    Probably a lot higher than those of Arabs. There are many in Detroit. They live in wealthier areas, tend to work as professionals. They are rather materialistic, one of my friends dated one – 20-something professional in finance or something, but still living at home so she can afford a new higher-end Mercedes, only wore designer clothes (Armani store is full of them). But superstitious, afraid of the “evil eye.” Contemptuous of Arabs who live in poorer areas.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  34. AP says:
    @DFH

    Chaldeans may be right, though. Their ancestors converted to Christianity under the Persians, not after the Arab invasion. Although it is likely that their Arab neighbors aren’t all invaders but locals whose ancestors converted to Islam over the years.

  35. AP says:
    @Vishnugupta

    I flew to Moscow on Aeroflot in an Airbus and flew out in a Boeing. Difference is night and day. Airbus is cramped and terrible.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  36. @Greasy William

    Screwdriver assembly with all critical components(Engine,Radar,Avionics,even sections of the aero structure) flown in from France is not the same thing as letting us build the whole aircraft almost from raw materials in the country like India builds the Su 30 Mki.

    Russia is not continuing research in Kaveri class engines (Klimov RD 33 series is not being meaningfully upgraded and Klimov has been asked to focus on Helicopter engines now that it is part of UEC) they can only afford research in one class of fighter aircraft engines i.e. Type 30 for PAK FA .

    We build Su 30 Mki engine from raw materials in India btw including the all important hot section(HP turbine and Compressor).

    The ‘help’ on Kaveri is essentially an offer to license build M88 engine (Rafale) and rename it Kaveri 2 with all critical components flown in from France.Like the Ardiden helicopter engine we build as the Shakti. No thanks!

    We will build a non after burning version of it and fly our AURA UCAV on it.That’s basically it for the Kaveri.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_AURA

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  37. @Vishnugupta

    We build Su 30 Mki engine from raw materials in India btw including the all important hot section(HP turbine and Compressor).

    I was not aware of that. Very impressive. Congratulations.

    Not sure why it matters if the raw materials come from India, though.

    Screwdriver assembly with all critical components(Engine,Radar,Avionics,even sections of the aero structure) flown in from France is not the same thing as letting us build the whole aircraft almost from raw materials in the country like India builds the Su 30 Mki.

    Well then why did you buy it? Obviously your own government was happy with the level of tech transfer or they wouldn’t have signed the contract.

    • Replies: @Anon
  38. songbird says:
    @Duke of Qin

    Thanks for that explanation.

    One reason I was a bit confused is wikipedia mentions Zhongyuan as being one Hui area. It is certainly far enough East, though not coincident with the language map. The Zhongyuan page does not mention the Hui though.

  39. @AP

    What kind of Boeing and Airbus those were? What year they were produced?

    • Replies: @AP
  40. songbird says:
    @Jayce

    Palestinian Christians probably call themselves Arabs out of a certain pragmatism, rather than a natural desire.

  41. @Greasy William

    This is bullshit. Low RCS is simply a matter of applying Ufimtsev’s equations, which can be done with any modern personal computer. Then there’s the matter of materials, where the Russians in fact made progress. They (allegedly) developed a cheaper and better replacement for electromagnetic radiation absorbing ferritic paint, for instance.

    Obviously they prioritized maneuvering and sensors over the lowest possible RCS.

    Whether or not they made the correct choice we hopefully never find out.

  42. AP says:
    @reiner Tor

    I think it was A330 Airbus and Boeing 777.

    Generally Aeroflot is very comfortable and spacious, for “cattle class” flights. I prefer Aeroflot to Lufthansa or Delta when flying to Moscow. The Airbus experience was shocking – my knees were jammed against the seat in front. Never happened on the old Soviet planes nor Boeing.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  43. Here is an unusual and unsung hero: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/julius-erasmus.html

    German WW2 veteran decided to personally provide a dignified burial for every soldier he could find, ultimately burying 1,569 soldiers.

  44. Mitleser says:

    As densely packed as any Airbus, and way more vibrations and creaking sounds than the average flight (though I suppose I can’t extrapolate too much from n=1 flights).

    Maybe next time the Russian nationalist will have more luck and fly with a SSJ not named after a Soviet Bashkir poet.

  45. @AP

    It will happen on Boeings and the CRAIC CR929 when it appears.

    Aircraft manufacturers are currently experimenting with staggered cabin layouts which will allow them to cram even more people in cattle class.

    Solution: get some money and fly business class.

    • Replies: @AP
  46. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I’m willing to put up with a few hours of discomfort for the sake of $1500 roundtrip, the cost of an upgrade to business class. And then multiply it by three, the number of people travelling. That’s almost 2 weeks of personal income – not worth it.

    But this Airbus was very annoying.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  47. @AP

    Refer to: “get some money” :)

    • Replies: @AP
  48. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    I’m curious, how you and your family have integrated into the Ukrainian community in Michigan? Are the malankas still as popular as back in the day when they were packing them into the Cultural Center? How about during the warmer months, is the Dibrova Oselia still a popular destination? Plenty of churches to visit (and join!)? Lot’s of Ukies used to live in Warren, Fenton, Flint, Hamtraken,they’re probably even further north now…

    • Replies: @AP
  49. Duterte plans hand out guns to trusted ‘community leaders’. This may or may not be a good idea but I really enjoy his style, truly /ourguy/.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/r-philippines-aims-to-arm-community-leaders-to-help-fight-crime-drugs-2018-6

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  50. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    I didn’t grow up there, just spent some time while at the medical center for my internship/residency, so didn’t integrate other than going to church and having shashliks at Dibrova.

    I left long ago, but Trump Jr. came to the Ukrainian cultural center in Warren and promised that his dad would be better for Ukraine than Obama was.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  51. This earnest negress is convinced Trump will get a much larger share of the black vote in 2020: http://blackrepublican.blogspot.com/2018/06/yuge-5-reasons-trump-will-win-40-states.html

    Scott Adams tweeted out this link.

    I suspect she is correct and that Trump will get 15-20% of the black vote in 2020.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @gate666
  52. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Not everyone can, or wants to, run a factory.

  53. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    For some reason, I thought that you still lived in the area?…Do you think that Trump Jr. was correct in his assessment?

    • Replies: @AP
  54. An entire Politico article of “powerful takes:”

    https://www.politico.eu/blogs/the-linesman/2018/06/world-cup-2018-russia-politics-a-to-z/

    P is for Putin, the presiding deity, malign and self-satisfied. He wanted the cup for Russia, and he made sure FIFA gave it to him. What better way to whitewash your reputation as an autocrat than by throwing your doors open to the world for a month of vodka and football. Russia, and Russians, will be on their best behavior. We have seen it reported that train and bus conductors in all the host cities are being taught how to smile.

    Clearly, tv shows instructing his minions(all Russians, apparently) on how to appear civilized to the Western world are being broadcast right now.

    • Replies: @DFH
  55. @Hyperborean

    President DAKKA DAKKA is my president.

  56. @Thorfinnsson

    I reeeeeeeaaaaallllly don’t think so. Blacks hate Trump far more than any other demo.

    I think in 2020 Trump will get 63% of the white vote, 43% of the Latino vote, 36% of the Asian vote, 21% of the faggot vote and 11% of the black vote. Final margin: Trump 52, Kamala Harris 46.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Duke of Qin
  57. @Greasy William

    Black women hate Trump. Black men don’t.

    And something unexpected seems to be going on in the black community right now thanks to Kanye.

    Trump could improve his numbers with black women by carrying on an affair with a negress. Stacy Dash would be an obvious choice if she’s not too old for his tastes (unlikely given that he screwed Kelly Anne Conway).

  58. @Greasy William

    That’s optimistic considering Trump actually lost the popular vote by 2% to Clinton of all people, the platonic essence of the shrill hectoring school marm no on likes. It was only thanks to the weird electoral College situation that Trump became president. Unfortunately that same system is going to come back and bite the Republicans in the ass once the Democrats flip Texas via demographic change and then you are looking forward to eternal lefty rule of the US executive branch.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @AP
  59. DFH says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    It calls itself Die Mannschaft (or “the Team”), with Turkish and African players alongside a solid Germanic core. Yet non-Germans remain unprepared to give them love.

    How is such racism allowed to be published?

  60. @Duke of Qin

    Provided the economy stays in good shape Trump will improve his results in 2020, as he has now been “normalized”.

    We can stop the Democrats from getting a lock on the executive branch by increasing our share of the white vote and/or suppressing Democrat voting blocs.

    Time is of course running out.

  61. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    I think he was.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  62. AP says:
    @Duke of Qin

    Democrats may run up the score in California thanks to the immigration policy, but that won’t matter. Gettting more of the black vote will strengthen Trump in the Rust Belt. If the Democrats run Biden they have a chance, but if they go Kamala they don’t.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @LondonBob
  63. songbird says:
    @AP

    I think the GOP may have exactly one more presidential election that is winnable. Beyond that… Though it is true they didn’t do a lot of good in general when they won. Maybe there is hope for the Democrats to fracture into more than one party, but I wouldn’t bet on it happening anytime soon.

    What is left? I don’t know. I guess there is always hope of a technological revolution for freedom. But technology is kind of a double edged sword.

  64. Tesla Update

    Polish Perspective is looking good now, as Tesla shares have climbed to $355. Not too far from its 52 week high of $389.

    My thesis remains unchanged, and I am now short. I have not suffered a margin call yet.

    Also credit due to Musk’s shill Ross Gerber, who agreed to appear on Quoth the Raven Research’s podcast.

    Meanwhile Exxon Mobil refuses to come unglued from its stubborn 80ish position despite a good oil price and surging production (company is about to hit 4 million barrels per day–that’s double Norway’s output).

    Many consumer staples are a great buy at the moment. Get long Coca Cola, Procter & Gamble, General Mills, Hormel, Kimberly Clark, Clorox, and Unilever. Take a pass on Pepsi and Colgate Palmolive.

    I am also coming to the point of view that traditional automakers may be systematically undervalued. The case for their low earnings multiples is that the auto business is cyclical. But I do not believe repeats of the last two recessions will occur. These were artifacts of deepening globalization and “neoliberalism”. The “system” is now complete and thus future recessions will be “normal”.

    Bank stocks are definitely undervalued for the same reason. They’re all cheap other than Deutsche Bank which you couldn’t pay me to own. Deutsche Bank is an absolute disgrace.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @reiner Tor
  65. Russian MOD claims the US and Syrian militants are preparing for a false flag gas attack provocation to prepare for further military strikes on Syria.

    http://tass.com/defense/1009105

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  66. @Polish Perspective

    I only watched part of it, but much of it is nonsense. Keep in mind that the woman is a leftist quisling out to deconstruct Chinese historiography.

    The reason why Chinese historians prefer a continuous civilization narrative is that all previous Chinese historians had hewed the same line. The orthodox cannon 24 histories covers 2000 years of imperial state building. China has perhaps too much history and it’s written legacy of statecraft is thick and overflowing with historical allusions to past dynastic rulers. Her argument that China was never unified using some retarded maximal Qing borders is akin to arguing the US didn’t exist as a unified polity prior to the mid 20th century because Hawaii and Alaska weren’t yet states.

    Political interregnums where multiple competing states existed simultaneously has been the undesired exception since the Qin defeated all the other ducal heirs of Zhou. Chinese states do not recognize the political legitimacy of other Chinese states, period. Like in Highlander, in the end there can be only one. This is the reason why Taiwan must be crushed and brought to heel.

    • Replies: @Anon
  67. Anonymous[620] • Disclaimer says:
    @Vishnugupta

    Why is it that only Anglos seem to be able to make good jet engines? I know there are other manufacturers based on joint ventures between Anglos and either France or (Japan and Germany).

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @LondonBob
  68. Mr. Hack says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Tell me more about Bank stocks and perhaps Financial Services ones too. I’ve been told this is a good place to invest right now, don’t know for how long?…

  69. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    I wonder, although I don’t think that he was ‘Putin’s man’ by any means, he still seems to exhibit an inordinate love affair with Russia, and seems willing to overlook a lot. Whatever his true relations with Russia were, they haven’t seemed to help his cause to this point?…

  70. LondonBob says:
    @AP

    Trump will definitely flip Minnesota, and probably take NH in 2000. Suspect more blacks won’t vote rather than actually voting for Trump.

  71. @Anonymous

    Because Germany lost the war, and Russia suffered under communism. Operation Paperclip then conveniently relocated most of Germany’s jet engine engineers to the United States. Hans von Ohain went on to run the US Air Force Research Laboratory.

    Safran makes reasonably competitive military jet engines.

    German and French industry are also effectively integrated into the Anglo jet engine supply chains.
    Rolls-Royce Deutschland, CFM International, and International Aero Engines.

    Jet engine design and manufacturing industrial bases also exist in Sweden (Volvo Flygmotor, which planned a clean sheet design for the Gripen NG which was rejected for budgetary reasons) and Japan (Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries).

    The Kawasaki P-1 maritime patrol bomber has indigenously developed and produced high bypass turbofan engines. I would not be surprised if these were developed with an eye to cracking the civilian market in the future. Perhaps in the next decade we’ll see IHI engines on the Mitsubishi Regional Jet?

    IHI is also developing a low-bypass afterburning turbofan for the Mitsubishi X-2 Shinden stealth fighter.

    Japan’s industrial strategy has been to merge its aerospace industry with Boeing (787 is as much a Japanese aircraft as an American one) and United Technologies, but I suppose they’re hedging their bets.

    It seems like Russia and China are in the process of merging their aerospace industries, which means they’ll no doubt develop competitive engines sooner or later.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  72. LondonBob says:
    @Anonymous

    Inteligence leading to engineering excellence. Watched a programme on Rolls Royce, impressive stuff, real value added manufacturing.

    EM FX hammered as the USD surges, Russia unaffected, Russian equities still so cheap. When gold cracks 1400 we should see fireworks, I wonder what will drive it?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  73. @Mr. Hack

    We’re late in the economic cycle right now, so the best sector is consumer staples as these are defensive stocks. People still need toilet paper and toothpaste during recessions.

    Best bank bar none is JP Morgan Chase. I feel comfortable owning that as long as Jamie Dimon remains captain of that ship. As a Chase credit card customer I am impressed with their technology. So does Warren Buffet, who owns over 50 million shares in his personal account. Berkshire Hathaway also owns shares in Wells Fargo (good bet once the government stops fucking with them), US Bancorp, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, and BNY Mellon.

    Banks are attractive businesses for the simple reason that they receive money upfront and only have to pay out later. The time to stay out of banks is when they’re obviously lending money to extremely dubious enterprises as in the naughties.

    As for financial services, I like AFLAC and Berkshire Hathaway itself (a conglomerate, but one of the world’s largest insurers). VISA and American Express are great companies, but their current stock prices are not attractive.

    AFLAC has increased dividends every year in a row for 35 years. It’s also the only insurer that has a truly strong brand, thanks to their loveable duck. Interestingly AFLAC gets about three quarters of its business from Japan, and the AFLAC duck is a beloved mascot in Japan.

    The Japanese AFLAC duck however has a very polite voice, sometimes wears a cape, and hangs out with a white cat. Gilbert Gottfriend was the original voice of the American AFLAC duck. He Tweeted out some tasteless tsunami jokes in 2011, and as a result was immediately fired by AFLAC.

    Bank stocks aren’t something you should consider a permanent part of your portfolio owing to the habit banks have of blowing themselves up once a generation. AFLAC and Berkshire Hathaway are the sort of stocks you can sit on for fifty years.

    Of course you don’t need to actively invest either. Most people should simply automatically fund a target date retirement fund (Vanguard) or a robo-advisor account (Charles Schwab, Wealthfront, or Betterment).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @LondonBob
  74. @LondonBob

    Russian equities are indeed dirt cheap, and the Rouble is also low. Double bargain.

    Downside is the RTS is dominated by dubious Kremlin-controlled enterprises operated mainly for the benefit of the corrupt apparatchiks surrounding Vladimir Putin, and actual entrepreneurial companies run by professional managers themselves become targets for acquisitive Kremlin-controlled enterprises.

    Great recent example being Magnit.

    Portuguese equities are also cheap. But I don’t know anything about Portugal.

  75. @Mr. Hack

    You should invest everything in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Mr. Hack
  76. @Daniel Chieh

    If the Rada ever repeals the idiotic law banning Ukrainians from selling land (seriously, this is the law in the Ukraine) then Ukrainian farmland would be a good investment if you can tolerate the geopolitical risk. No need to be a farmer either, just lease it out.

    In fact I could see the Ukraine in general as having many investment opportunities simply owing to how underdeveloped the country is relative to its human capital.

  77. Mr. Hack says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Thanks for the update. You seem like a smart ‘money guy’, I bet that you work in the industry?…I’m a ‘marketing’ guy within the industry, doing a lot of paper pushing. I’m seriously considering sitting for the Series 65, though…

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  78. Mr. Hack says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    What more than my soul can I invest?? :-)

    How about you, any shares in Peking Duck (one of my favorites!)?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  79. Not Raul says:

    Congratulations on being rated a top IQ expert, AK!

    You should do a few more posts on IQ.

  80. @Mr. Hack

    Much of it is still stuck in crypto, to be honest, which I’ve been relatively fortunate for developing an early interest in. Still trying to make a call going forward, though.

  81. @Mr. Hack

    I’m in manufacturing, but I’ve been very interested in finance for many years.

    I do have a Series 65, which I did to comply with the (now repealed) Fiduciary Rule for 401(k) plans without paying for a completely unnecessary investment advisor (20 basis points).

    It’s somewhat useful in that it allows me to dispense financial advice to my employees as a fringe benefit. Since they’re rural proles they are completely unable to get decent financial advice on their own, so this benefit helps retain talent. I was able to advise a girl on how to obtain a subsidized USDA Rural mortgage for instance so that she did not need to make a down payment.

    I have a talent retention strategy for proles I call the Web of Benefits. It consists of offering so many different benefits that the employee begins to see it as impossible to separate himself from the company, because doing so would result in the loss of so many benefits as to be unthinkable. I devised this strategy after learning, to my surprise, that proles care more about health insurance than wages (beyond a certain level) and are unable to calculate the financial value of benefits.

    Currently we offer silver health insurance, dental insurance, vision insurance, a 401(k) plan (4% match), and a 10% discount at a local sporting goods store.

    I intend to add life insurance, accident insurance, cancer insurance, hospital insurance, critical illness insurance, short-term disability insurance, broadband internet, and Verizon cellular service.

    Then if you quit, not only do you lose tons of insurance, but you also lose your internet and cellular service. No one will ever quit again. :)

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Mr. Hack
  82. iffen says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    No one will ever quit again.

    St Peter don’t you call me I cause can’t go:
    I owe my soul to the company store.

    Sixteen Tons – Frankie Lane

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  83. Mikhail says: • Website

    This JRL promoted piece has the standard leftist BS about the Russian Revolution:

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/06/richard-pipes-cold-war-russian-revolution

    Unlike some other matters, Pipes’ isn’t wrong in noting that the image of a foreign intervention on the side of the Russian Civil War era Whites is bloated from reality. The author of the above piece hypes White atrocities with inaccurate generalizations, while suggestively downplaying Red violence.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Mr. Hack
  84. Mr. Hack says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Wow, with such generous benefits I’m sure that you’ll manage to keep them glued to their workstations with these ‘golden handcuffs’. Obviously, you have a very unique and talented bunch of workers that you want to keep around, otherwise how can your company afford to pay these exorbitant benefits?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  85. DFH says:
    @Mikhail

    The author of the above piece hypes White atrocities with inaccurate generalizations

    But the Whites were ‘vile anti-semites’!!!!!!!!

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  86. @Mr. Hack

    The deal is that other than major medical insurance the benefits are not that expensive. That said we have margins around 20%, and I think I can get us to 25%. Yearly top line growth is around 20%, something I’d like to accelerate.

    Most workers, especially proles, irrationally overvalue their benefits.

    Or you could consider it rational given the labor involved in providing such things for yourself, and the fact that most Americans prefer not to save much money owing to well-developed credit systems in America. So benefits provide a safety net and frees them to spend their money on things they prefer like housing, entertainment, cars, and so forth.

    If we go with the rational thesis the Web of Benefits is a mutually beneficial arrangement in which their labor and loyalty are bartered for my brain and administrative talents.

    Some employees I’m not too pleased with, but yes many are excellent. We have one girl in particular who testified against her own sister (to be clear her sister was in the wrong) in an administrative law hearing regarding unemployment insurance. Despite having a terminally ill toddler she still gives us 50-60 hours a week.

    Beyond her ordinary wages and benefit I did her the favor of arranging a new, well-compensated job for her husband at a company my friend runs. I plan on developing her into an executive, which is kind of amusing to me since she’s both prole and female. But whatever. Talent is talent.

    We have a strategy of offering the best blue collar wages and benefits in town so we have our pick of talent and little to no turnover.

    Professional talent is difficult for us to recruit since we’re in the middle of nowhere, so I effectively have three or four jobs. Fortunately we did manage to recruit one of the best engineers in our field in the entire country, but he refuses to live here.

    I’ve also found that for positions which don’t require creativity or strength that women are generally better employees since they love following orders and love drudgery, and they are much less likely to demand promotions or pay increases. Single moms are particularly good since they have no other options. That said one issue with female employees is they always need time off to deal with their families.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
    , @Anonymous
  87. Mikhail says: • Website
    @DFH

    Bullshit. In exile, many of them (not all) had the opportunity to exhibit such – but didn’t.

    Like there weren’t anti-Jews among the Reds, Poles and Ukrainian separatists of that time period.

  88. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    Look at the bright side, Mickey, at least he didn’t take any pot shots at Skoropadsky! :-)

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  89. @Thorfinnsson

    Despite having a terminally ill toddler she still gives us 50-60 hours a week.

    Why would a woman in her right mind do such a thing?

    Also I seem to remember that you wrote once that single mothers were a threat to civilization and should not be subsidized in any way. Why do you even have some in your staff then? This is a honest-to-God kind of question, no stealth criticism of yours implied — just asking.

    On a different note, I am wondering who AK is becoming so anti-anything-Russian, to the point of blaming Sukhoi for the absence of power outlets of which they are not responsible. It’s really strange.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  90. Every time I like a post on Twitter or follow somebody new, my account gets locked with the message that I have triggered some algorithm violating Twitter rules. Anybody know what that is all about?

  91. @Guillaume Tell

    I can’t speak to her personal motivations. I assume she likes working for me. She does also work hard to save her poor daughter.

    She is married and thus not a single mother, but in general I work within our system as it is and pursue my self interest. Isn’t the whole point of government to reign that in?

    If she didn’t already have kids, small tits, and brown eyes I would ask her to marry me.

  92. Mr. Hack says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    ‘Anything over a handful is a waste’

    :-)

  93. Talha says:

    Taleb:

    “We wuz fo’neeshunzzz…”

    Peace.

    • Agree: Greasy William
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  94. @reiner Tor

    While the strikes are certainly aggressive, it doesn’t seem like the previous ones have really affected the progress of the recapturing of land, so it appears to be more an expression of hostile intent.

  95. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    Skoro has a good record on that score.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  96. Is Euro media talking about these camps for beaner children that Trump is building? It’s huge news in America.

  97. @Talha

    He’s Greek Orthodox, likely to a large portion descended from the original Greeks. (They didn’t convert many locals before the Islamic conquest, and it’s not quite likely that they converted many afterwards.)

    But he says that Lebanese Arabs (especially the non-Muslims, and probably among Muslims the Shia) are mostly descendants of Phoenicians, i.e. they are Arabized Phoenicians. That’s quite a bit more plausible than the African Beethoven and similar stories. Actually, there are genetic studies which seem to confirm that.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @The Big Red Scary
  98. @Thorfinnsson

    There’s the news of the many Model 3 cancellations.

    But as I wrote in the other thread, an acquaintance in NYC just got his Model 3 delivered to him, and he’s totally happy with it, posting it on FB (which he rarely does about anything else), etc.

  99. Talha says:
    @reiner Tor

    Yeah, I’ve seen the genetic studies that show a demarcation between Muslims and non-Muslims of the area. Makes sense, since intermarriage is highly discouraged and only goes one way (Muslim men can marry their females – People of the Book – and not vice versa).

    Melkites (a term that was used by some as a pejorative to connote “king’s men”) were seen as occupiers by many native non-Chalcedonian Christians. A fact that made the Muslim conquests that much easier…oh and (as Prof. Robert Hoyland points out) the fact that Muslims could offer them a reduction in taxes. Something quite easy to do if you are a semi-nomadic, spartan-like desert people establishing garrison cities instead of a bloated bureaucratic empire.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  100. @Talha

    I didn’t say Greeks conducted smart policies before the conquest, just that Taleb doesn’t say that he personally was descended from Phoenicians (he’s a proud descendant of the Greeks), and that his theories generally make more sense than the pyramids built by blacks or Beethoven being black.

    • Replies: @Talha
  101. Talha says:
    @reiner Tor

    Yeah, I respect a lot of what Taleb has to say; I’ve referenced him before.

    I guess I misunderstood, I thought he was claiming Phoenician heritage.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  102. LondonBob says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Impressively large segments of the European banking system are still a mess. Exposure to Argentina, Brazil, Turkey etc. is something to watch out for.

  103. @Talha

    I thought he was claiming Phoenician heritage.

    You made me a little doubt myself. I’ll read into his exact position when I’ll have time later. But I firmly believed that he was talking about other Lebanese, and that he thought that both Greeks and Phoenicians were part of the Levant.

    Interestingly he’s quite opposed to the Saudi Arabian version of Islam, but has respect for certain forms of Islam, like Shia Islam. I can imagine he’d approve of your brand of Islam, too.

    • Replies: @Talha
  104. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    ‘Skoros’ is the man and you’re the one to resurrect his star. The only problem is, is that his grandson is a major league svido and presents his grandfather’s ideas almost totally diametrically than what you do. He thinks that Ukraine should not be joined to the hip to Russia like Siamese twins, and other such blasphemies. He would be an ideal candidate to get things moving again, unless, of course you have similar ambitions? Perhaps its time that you get off the barstool and put away the suds and fly out to Canada and meet the guy? Don’t you think that somebody as important as you, Mickey, needs to make his mark in history beyond just being a negligible commenter to other people’s websites? People might get the wrong impression and think of your as some sort of a ‘hack‘ and not a real mover and shaker?

    Mickey, wake up and do something with your life, before it’ too late!

    https://day.kyiv.ua/en/article/day-after-day/skoropadsky-successor-returns-ukraine

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Mikhail
  105. Talha says:
    @reiner Tor

    From what I’ve seen, many Arab Christians are fairly cool with traditional (and especially Sufi-oriented) Islam – obviously they prefer secularism above all options. I’ve referenced plenty of these guys before; Profs. Najib Saliba, George Saliba, not sure if I referenced Robert Haddad, etc.

    But they generally hate the Salafi-Wahhabi with a passion – for very good reason – if I were them, I would too. There are exceptions; I’ve read Hamas is fairly good to local Christians.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Sean
  106. @Talha

    I’ve read Hamas is fairly good to local Christians.

    There are Christians in Gaza?

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @Talha
  107. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Mickey – If you read the article that I cited, you’ll find several important and useful tidbits to help you in your quest to resurrect the Hetmanite movement in Ukraine (and throughout the world!):

    We know that a hetman organization created by Pavlo Skoropadsky functioned in the Ukrainian Diaspora, whose membership was topped only by the Communist Party. Its strongest and most effective organizations operated in the US, Canada, Germany, and Great Britain, where many Ukrainians live. The US government even gave Ukrainian-American hetman- affiliated war pilots aircraft with names like Kyiv, Odesa, and Lviv. The hetmanites had weapons, uniforms, and training camps. In time, however, the hetman movement began to decline, and fewer books were published about Skoropadsky whose name began to sink into oblivion.

    Imagine, Mickey, you and Boris resurrecting such a movement and toppling the current band of Nazis and Banderites in Ukraine? You and Boris – what a team (kind of like you and Leos, in the past)!

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  108. • Replies: @Hyperborean
  109. Follow-up to waaycist Einstein:

    https://qz.com/1305236/chinese-internet-users-are-surprisingly-sympathetic-to-einsteins-racist-remarks/

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/15/chinese-defend-einsteins-diaries-filthy-obtuse

    Predictably, most of the angry people are merely squawking liberasts.

    I like how they include the sentence ‘The theoretical physicist, who once said racism was “a disease of white people”’ without any kind of comment (Hello Fellow Hwhyte People!).

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @AaronB
  110. @Thorfinnsson

    All hail the Ever-Spinning Basketball and His representative in America Saint Dennis of Trenton! All Hail!

  111. @Hyperborean

    I think back then pretty much everybody would have considered Jews white, so I don’t think Einstein really meant anything by it.

    I’m not into outrage culture but what Einstein said about the Chinese was pretty bad. It was a long time ago and it was only his private thoughts but I don’t think that we are forbidden from criticizing outdated, racist speech. I’m sure that Einstein himself would be embarrassed by what he wrote if he were alive today.

    Good on the Chinese though for understanding the context of Einstein’s words and not chimping out.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Hyperborean
  112. @Greasy William

    Kaiser Wilhelm II didn’t consider them white.

    And I doubt he was alone.

  113. @Greasy William

    It was a long time ago and it was only his private thoughts but I don’t think that we are forbidden from criticizing outdated, racist speech.

    I wrote a long reply but I think my bloody Internet screwed it up and I don’t feel like rewriting it.

    TL;DR Even if it is racist, it is not necessarily wrong (probably that sounds more offensive without context).

    And by the standards of how we talk about other nationalities and even our own people on this board it sounds rather mild.

  114. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    Don’t you think that somebody as important as you, Mickey, needs to make his mark in history beyond just being a negligible commenter to other people’s websites? People might get the wrong impression and think of your as some sort of a ‘hack‘ and not a real mover and shaker?

    You’re incorrectly transferring your attributes to me.

    Skoro’s edict for an All-Russian Federation including Russia and Ukraine is a matter of record:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/22052011-pavlo-skoropadsky-and-the-course-of-russian-ukrainian-relations-analysis/

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  115. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    Far superior to the dimwitted likes of yourself.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  116. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    It most certainly is, Mickey, therefore don’t you think that it’s incumbent to get the message out, loud and clear, like you’ve been doing? I think that it’s time that you consider getting beyond the realm of the make believe world of Russian blogs, and become a viable historical force for change. Your talents are much too valuable to waste spending precious time commenting at blogs like this one, or even that lackluster ‘Eurasian’ rag, where you currently have your own blog. Skoro needs a new blast of fresh air to get his message heard, what better way than you and Boris uniting for the ‘New Hetmanate’?

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  117. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    For sure. You shouldn’t be wasting your time on the likes of me, Mickey, your destiny is many pay grades above mine. You need to set your sights on something much higher, to the likes of somebody like ‘Borys (Tukhai Bei) Skoropadsky! You two are destined to rewrite the history books! You two and Skoropadsky’s prophetic edict for an All-Russian Federation including Russia and Ukraine!

  118. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    But I have, you lying twit. You haven’t done likewise.

    BTW, the rag you seem to be referring to features a diverse range of views.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  119. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    Of course you have, Mickey. You’re the greatest Russian blogger of all time, a regular ‘Independent Foreign Policy Analyst’ you are! And what I love the most about you, Mickey, is that all of your stuff is either factual or based on factual materials. Yep, no BS when it comes to Mike Averko!

  120. Sean says:
    @Talha

    https://mosaicmagazine.com/picks/2018/06/in-saudi-arabia-public-opinion-about-israel-is-shifting/

    Muted complaints about the Gaza deaths. The Crown Prince recently said Palestinians should take the best deal they can get now or shut up. Trump’s son in law told them their cause is a declining stock. McMaster was sacked for opposing planning meetings with Israel over Iran because he said Israel would start a war against Iran and expect US to finish it. Israel will never attack Iran, it is going to have to be the US.

    Israel was allowed by Russia to fly into Syrian airspace for bombing. It is all pointing to an attack on Iran by the US. And then

    http://townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/2003/08/27/transfer_is_not_a_dirty_word/page/full/

    The Jews don’t realize that expelling a hostile population is a commonly used and generally effective way of preventing violent entanglements. There are no gas chambers here. It’s not genocide; it’s transfer. It’s not Hitler; it’s Churchill.

    After World War II, Poland was recreated by the Allied Powers. In doing so, the Allies sliced off a chunk of Germany and extended Poland west to the Oder-Neisse line. Anywhere from 3.5 million to 9 million Germans were forcibly expelled from the new Polish territory and relocated in Germany.

    British Prime Minister Winston Churchill was pleased with the result. In 1944, he had explained to the House of Commons that “expulsion is the method which, so far as we have been able to see, will be the most satisfactory and lasting. There will be no mixture of populations to cause endless trouble … a clean sweep will be made. I am not alarmed by the prospect of the disentanglement of populations, nor even by these large transferences, which are more possible in modern conditions than they ever were before.” Churchill was right. The Germans accepted the new border, and decades of conflict between Poles and Germans ended.

    Arab-Jewish conflict is exponentially more volatile than German-Polish conflict ever was. And the solution is far easier. If there was “room in Germany for the German populations of East Prussia and of the other territories,” as Churchill stated, there is certainly room in the spacious Muslim states of the Middle East for 5 million Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. If Germans, who had a centuries-old connection to the newly created Polish territory, could be expelled, then surely Palestinians, whose claim to Judea, Samaria and Gaza is dubious at best, can be expelled.

    It’s time to stop being squeamish. Jews are not Nazis. Transfer is not genocide. And anything else isn’t a solution.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  121. Anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    The problem is that the Palestinians aren’t Germans either.

    The Germans had been vilified and dehumanized by propaganda to such an extent that after the war prominent Jews in government like Morgenthau could make proposals like his eponymous plan which would kill off about half of Germany’s population.

    The Palestinians aren’t hated like the Germans were, and global opinion is on the side of the Palestinians. And at this point, no amount of propaganda will be able to change that. The Palestinian protests and confrontations with the IDF just make Israel look bad.

    Furthermore, the American right wing is no longer unified in being reflexively pro Israel following the rise of the alt-right. Ben Shapiro is especially detested by the alt-right for his hypocrisy regarding Israel and nationalism.

    Shapiro wrote that article in the wake of 9/11 and shortly after the start of the Iraq War. The sort of Final Solution you propose for the Palestinians may only be possible in the wake of another 9/11 type event. If your claim that Israel regards such a solution as an absolute necessity is true, then that suggests that there is a tremendous incentive for Israel to see another 9/11 type event, with all that entails, which would outweigh any risks for Israel in whatever it may or may not do in seeing such an event be carried out. That’s a very disquieting prospect.

  122. AaronB says:
    @Hyperborean

    The funny thing is, Bertrand Russell went to China about the same time and thought it was the most amazing country he’d been to. He had the exact opposite reaction – it made him hopeful for the fate of mankind, saying that if European civilization died there would be something quite as good to replace it.

  123. Sparkon says:
    @iffen

    Sixteen Tons – Frankie Lane

    Eh?

    “Sixteen Tons” is a song written by Merle Travis…A 1955 version recorded by Tennessee Ernie Ford reached number one in the Billboard charts, while another version by Frankie Laine was released only in Western Europe, where it gave Ford’s version competition.

    –Wiki

    I doubt anyone in the U.S. ever heard (of) Frankie Laine’s version.

    • Replies: @iffen
  124. iffen says:
    @Sparkon

    My carelessness, I am only familiar with the Tennessee Ernie Ford recording. When I looked it up I took Frankie Laine to be the song writer.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  125. @reiner Tor

    They didn’t convert many locals before the Islamic conquest, and it’s not quite likely that they converted many afterwards.

    Really? It might be availability bias, but I thought the whole Mediterranean was thoroughly Christianized before the Islamic conquest. Julian tried to Make Paganism Great Again in the middle of the 4th century, but Justinian pretty much killed it in the middle of the 6th century, no?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @reiner Tor
  126. @iffen

    One of my favorite songs incidentally. Thanks for bringing it up.

    Though for aesthetic reasons I really must focus on 80s music.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  127. @The Big Red Scary

    There were religious divisions though (possibly related to ethno-linguistic ones), with all those Eastern churches of people who spoke Aramaic, Coptic etc. in conflict with the imperial (Melkite) church of Greek-speakers. I always forget the details since as a non-believer it baffles me people could get worked up over those obscure Christological issues.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @AP
  128. @German_reader

    They might look at us in the same way. In the past couple of weeks we’ve debated (among other things):

    • The legitimacy and desirability of conquest
    • Characteristics of Russian weapons
    • Whether or not Ukrainians are a nation or a division of the Russian nation
    • The Russians of Ancient Egypt

    It’s ordinary to have debates within a particular group that shares common values and aims. And abstract intellectual topics like religion and ideology tend to attract nerds and autists who will belabor points in great detail.

    We’re all “nationalists” for instance, but the only thing we probably universally agree on 100% is Remove Kebab.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  129. @Thorfinnsson

    And abstract intellectual topics like religion and ideology tend to attract nerds and autists who will belabor points in great detail.

    Those great christological controversies in late antiquity seem to have been a big deal though for the masses as well, not just for a few unusual enthusiasts like the people on this blog.
    I’ve always wondered how that worked, did the average man on the street in Antiochia or Alexandria, or somewhere in the countryside in Syria really think in detail about those different conceptions of Christ, with their minute differences (at least they seem like that to me), and their theological implications? Or was it merely a vehicle for tribalism based on issues of class or ethnicity to assert itself, as many moderns would suspect?
    Regarding Remove Kebab: One doesn’t even have to be especially right-wing or nationalistic for that. In a few years it might be just common sense.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Thorfinnsson
  130. AP says:
    @German_reader

    Sure, but the bottom line is that they were all Christians before the Muslim conquest.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  131. AP says:
    @German_reader

    I’ve always wondered how that worked, did the average man on the street in Antiochia or Alexandria, or somewhere in the countryside in Syria really think in detail about those different conceptions of Christ, with their minute differences (at least they seem like that to me), and their theological implications?

    Well,, in America there are passionate Democrats and Republicans who argue and sometimes even fight. To someone completely alien to this culture such as an Amazonian tribesman or ancient Egyptian it would also seem bizarre to argue over such (relative to oneself) slight and obscure differences.

  132. @German_reader

    90% of people in Late Antiquity were likely illiterate, and in any case writing had to be manually copied in order to distribute it. On parchment. So it’s not very likely that ordinary people had views on the nature of the Trinity at all.

    The “Christological” controversies of Late Antiquity had political consequences, which is why they were so serious. The Germanic barbarians overrunning the Western Roman Empire followed the Arian creed, while the Eastern Roman Empire was Nicene.

    That said I don’t really know what the fuss was about, but that’s because our records from the time are poor. And actually a lot of primary sources from that time, surprisingly, have never been translated to English because Latin scholars only care about classical Latin and don’t bother with the language as it evolved.

    I assume the Arian creed offered some sort of political advantage to Germanic barbarians that we don’t know about.

    You can compare it to the Protestant Reformation, which is better documented and more recent. Obviously the typical peasant in early modern Germany couldn’t read and certainly couldn’t read the Gospel of Matthew in Latin.

    Here the political consequences are easier to understand as the German princes seized upon Lutheranism as a convenient way to expropriate the Church and free themselves from Papal authority (to the point where Luther’s lord decided to engage in bigamy LOL).

    As for Julian the Apostate, Christians were still a minority in the Empire during his reign. However they comprised majorities in a lot of important places like Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, and so forth.

    By the 7th century pretty much the entire former Roman Empire was fully Christian, though paganism persisted in parts of England…probably owing to being invaded by Angles, Saxons, Jutes, and vikings. There was apparently an upsurge in paganism during the disastrous reign of Aethelred the Unready as the endless disasters visited upon the English were seen as discrediting Christianity.

    Traditionally societies have always had an official religion and a priesthood, so religion is very serious business. Today that function is fulfilled by the universities (which after all were originally founded by priests) and the press, and they seek to punish heretics with the same zeal the church did in the past.

    Look at how whenever Ron Unz writes a “revisionist” essay, weird Jewish commenters appear to “warn” him about the “dark road” he’s going down.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  133. @Thorfinnsson

    90% of people in Late Antiquity were likely illiterate, and in any case writing had to be manually copied in order to distribute it. On parchment.

    Before the Islamic conquests people could use papyrus as a writing material which presumably was cheaper and could be used in greater numbers than parchment. And illiterate people could have things read to them. So maybe the audience for those controversies was greater than one would imagine at first.

    I assume the Arian creed offered some sort of political advantage to Germanic barbarians that we don’t know about.

    It may have worked as a marker of identity, keeping them separate from the Roman population and thereby increasing their cohesion. But in the end I’m not sure how satisfactory such explanations are that claim it was really all about something different than the genuinely religious questions. It might just be projecting our own criteria back into a past which had fundamentally different values.

    And actually a lot of primary sources from that time, surprisingly, have never been translated to English because Latin scholars only care about classical Latin and don’t bother with the language as it evolved.

    I don’t think that’s quite correct like that, there’s a lot of literature about vulgar Latin, the shift to the Romance languages etc. What might be neglected, are sources in Near Eastern languages like Syriac (?) which only a few specialists know.

  134. @AP

    Yes, but it was originally about Taleb, who as a Greek Orthodox (if that’s what he is) would prsumably be descended from Greek-speaking city dwellers. I think that’s what reiner tor meant.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  135. @The Big Red Scary

    It was Christian, but not Orthodox. The question was whether the Greek Orthodox community Taleb descends from has anything to do with the Greeks of antiquity. What can be reasonably established at this point is that they are the continuation of the ethnically Greek Orthodox Christians of the late Roman Empire. They didn’t manage to convert non-Greeks to Orthodoxy then, and certainly not after the Islamic Conquest.

    So it’s quite plausible that Taleb is indeed descended from the Greeks of antiquity.

    Another point he makes is that the Lebanese are mostly descendants of the ancient Phoenicians. He also makes the point that the ancient Middle East was pretty similar to ancient Greece, genetically and to an extent culturally.

    I think he somewhat exaggerates the cultural similarity, but the genetic similarity was likely there. Hence his point about both Melkites (Greek Orthodox) and other Lebanese being different from other Arabs and more similar to Greeks.

  136. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Duke of Qin

    Why is everything east of Baghdad considered inferior when those areas are the only ones to not suck off abraham। ।

  137. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pilgrim007

    War was already lost when Germany lost all but 8 of its combat divisions during Barbarossa

  138. @Anon

    are you ever going to explain to us what is with the “| |” that you put in all your posts?

    Also, posting as Anon is really annoying. Pick a handle or get lost.

  139. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Greasy William

    India has had one party christian backed democracy for most of its post ww2 history similar to Japan.

    There’s a significant lobby for imported arms, which just changes the requirement for indigenous tech midway.

    Drdos entire budget is a few billion usd across all programs subs, icbms, aircraft.

    The mirage didn’t have working missiles for years while a nearly fully functional Tejas is rejected for reasons.

    Same with Arjun tank

    The Kaveri actually has close to 90kn thrust more than the m88 but the Tejas Mk2 naval needs more & refuses to fund further development.

    The only tech Russia withholds is the engine core of the Sukhoi & the gun barrel/turret of the t90.

    France is different since it rejoined Nato..

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  140. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Duke of Qin

    You could’ve just said it’s a woman, ignore video.

    • Agree: Greasy William
  141. @Anon

    The Kaveri actually has close to 90kn thrust more than the m88

    Because it’s a bigger engine. I think it’s thrust to weight ratio is a little worse. The m88 is also fully mature.

    DRDO was saying that they need 2 billion USD minimum to develop the Kaveri; the Indian gov ended up giving them 600 million. Can’t develop engines without money.

  142. Mitleser says:

    Japanese business is trying to ruin Japan.

    But businesses have long lobbied for looser rules, saying they struggle to find workers in a country where unemployment hovers around 2.5 percent and there are 159 job offers to every 100 job seekers.

    Hiroaki Nakanishi, head of the influential Keidanren business lobby, told reporters earlier this week that the policy was about more than addressing labor shortages.

    “Increasing diversity is inevitable for improving Japan’s industrial competitiveness and research and academic levels,” he said.

    http://archive.is/mYwd3#selection-925.0-937.128

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  143. @Mitleser

    They have samurai swords. The business leaders have necks. The former should be applied to the latter.

  144. @Anon

    Who made any claims to superiority / inferiority? I am merely pointing out that the the area was the border between the Greco-Roman and later Christians and Persian worlds. The geographic idea of what constitutes Western was much more expansive in antiquity than it is today. Rather than Western success, I see the West under assault having lost the Southern and Eastern Mediterranean coasts and despite a few centuries reprieve following the siege of Vienna again under threat by the Mohammedans.

    • Replies: @Anon
  145. @Thorfinnsson

    If she didn’t already have kids, small tits, and brown eyes I would ask her to marry me.

    Obviously the husband is no problem . . .

    • LOL: Talha
  146. * Ukraine comes dead last out of eight in Strong Europe Tank Challenge 2018 (an explanation from AP). Germany wins as usual.

    I think this is a good example of how AP keep making excuses for the Ukraine, and is therefore full is shit.

    Ukrainian officer, who participated in the competition was more honest:

    Участник команды из 14-й волынской механизированной бригады ВСУ капитан Роман Багаев рассказал, почему украинские танкисты заняли последнее место в танковом соревновании Strong Europe Tank Challenge в Германии.

    В беседе с изданием «Новинарня» военный раскритиковал техническое состояние новейшего украинского танка Т-84 «Оплот», который ВСУ получили вместо Т-64.

    «А ничего не удалось сделать. Мы поехали на четырёх машинах. Во время «операции в наступлении» выстрелил только один танк. На остальных трёх снаряд или не до конца загрузился в пушку, либо не сработали датчики. Система показала, что танк не до конца зарядился, поэтому пушка с гидростопора не снялась, пришлось дозаряжать вручную», — сказал Багаев.

    Среди других причин поражения он назвал незнание натовской специфики, языковые проблемы и отставание в тактике.

    https://russian.rt.com/ussr/news/523662-ukraina-proval-tanki-germaniya

    If you don’t understand Russian, basically he says that 3 out of 4 Oplot tanks malfunctioned and failed to fire. The Ukraine built a tank, which doesn’t work.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @AP
  147. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Duke of Qin

    Arabs came from the South not the East.

    Your comment implies the Persian world was any less to this Western world you speak so highly of,

    Probably you have a pro christian agenda as this Western world of yours had Legions worshipping Great Mithras।।

    West or East was not so different back then more so a gradual transition & it’s unfortunate that both Persian & Roman worship a kebab now।।

    We will definitely have to fix this.

  148. iffen says:
    @Felix Keverich

    a good example of how AP keep making excuses for the Ukraine

    AP probably expects Jesus to swoop down and heal the tanks.

    • Replies: @AP
  149. Mr. Hack says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    David Bowie X

    Eurythmics X

    Blondie X

    Fleetwood Mac X
    ,
    Abba X

    Huey Lewis & the News ?

    Perhaps, I never gave them enough of a listen. I’m thinking that you were a fan of Hootie and the Blowfish too? But yeah, the 80′s was a banner time for pop music (I can’t stand most of the stuff coming out today, except for jazz and international).

    Hey Anatoly, if you’re still out there, do you know anything of a great Russian ‘New Age’ group Vermicelli Orchetra? Nice stuff, if you can find it….

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  150. I went to an airshow in the Chippewa Valley today.

    There was a newly restored B-29 available for inspection and interior tour. Remarkable how cramped the interior of the largest WW2 bomber was.

    The Blue Angels performed the final show of the day and needless to say brought the house down. Of course they completed their finale to the Top Gun theme song. :)

  151. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I think this is a good example of how AP keep making excuses for the Ukraine

    Already mentioned:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-45/#comment-2370507

    I posted that the tanks didn’t shoot in the first section:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-45/#comment-2370547

    Those two problems were worth about 150 lost points, which would place Ukraine where it was last year – about the same as Poland (a little worse this year, while it actually beat Poland last year). Ukraine would have been ahead of the UK and the US.

    There’s a photo of results for the first 2 of 13 parts (the ones where Ukraine was affected by technical problems and too-deep dugout, respectively) here:

    https://aw.my.com/en/forum/showthread.php?199458-Strong-Europe-Tank-Challenge-2018

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-45/#comment-2370831

    “You are correct, it is indeed scandalous that the soldiers were given tanks that couldn’t shoot at at the beginning, costing a lot of points. The Ukrainian soldiers were really outraged by that. It doesn’t reflect badly on the troops, at least.

    But the bottom line, if not for those two problems it looks like Ukrainians would have outperformed the Brits and the Americans, and come close to the Poles whom they beat last year when they didn’t have that problem.”

    ::::::::::::::

    Explanations aren’t excuses.

    And you, of course, simply lie about Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  152. @AP

    Karlin’s post was linking to your original “explanation” of the Ukraine’s failure, and it was full of bullshit excuses.

    I do not have time to keep up with your evolving excuses, and, since neither of us is an expert in tank warfare, technical details are not the point. What is instructive is your instinct to rush to the Ukraine’s defence, writing silly crap such as this:

    Ukrainian tanks have lower height than Abrams, so in one important exercise (defense) they lost all points, because their tanks can’t be used as a height for observing surroundings

    LOL

    • Replies: @AP
  153. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    “Bullshit” is making stuff up that isn’t true.

    Like when you claimed Kharkiv-based Azov were western Ukrainians. Or Ukrainians in diaspora have been “mediocre” in income (they have among the highest family incomes of white ethnic groups). These claims of yours were simply false.

    As for:

    “Ukrainian tanks have lower height than Abrams, so in one important exercise (defense) they lost all points, because their tanks can’t be used as a height for observing surroundings”

    This wasn’t my claim originally. I posted to the original claim. And this “excuse” is corroborated elsewhere.

    Another commenter, who is hardly pro-Ukrainian, provided:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-45/#comment-2370507

    http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43305&page=2#entry1372477

    Poor performance of pro-Ukrainian team partly explained by T-84 fire control system failure during first day (“assault”). Defense day video – From about 2:00 tanker complain about dugouts too deep (as designed for Abrams) and T-84 was unable to see targets from it – so they were firing from open positions

    ::::::::::::

    So take your problems up with them, you proven liar.

  154. AP says:
    @iffen

    Says the guy who rejects empirically demonstrated facts (Christians basically ended global slavery) because they don’t conform to his irrational beliefs.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @iffen
  155. @Mr. Hack

    Fleetwood Mac and ABBA are good but are representative of the 70s.

    Hootie and the Blowfish is something I don’t mind hearing on the radio but would never choose to play. Formed in ’86, but I tie them to the ’90s and ’00s. I also consider them to be proletarian. Someone who thought the Chrysler PT Cruiser was a cool car and wears NFL jerseys on Sundays would no doubt love Hootie and the Blowfish.

    Blondie bridges the gap between the ’70s and ’80s. The long form song Call Me used as a soundtrack in the fascinating 1980 film Call Me gets very close to kicking of the 80s, but the color palette of the film isn’t ’80s. Richard Gere’s wardrobe is all grays and earth tones. Additionally Miami is always a better ’80s setting than Los Angeles.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4DI71X6PeM

    The most ’80s song ever recorded is the long-form 12″ extended play track Blue Monday by New Order. #2 would have to be Don’t You Want Me by The Human League.

    The Eurythmics is extremely ’80s.

    Bowie is both ’70s and ’80s, but really the man was such a force of nature that he was just Bowie.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  156. @Thorfinnsson

    “Voices Carry” by Til’ Tuesday
    “Something There to Remind Me” by whoever did that song
    “Take on Me” by Ah-ha
    “Something” About You by Level 42
    “Hold Me Now” by the Thompson Twins
    “Poetry in Motion” (She Blinded Me with Science) by whoever
    “I Ran So Far Away” by whatstherename
    “Red Skies” by The Fixx
    “Tarzan Boy” by Baltimora
    “Rhythm of the Night” by DeBarge
    “Don’t You” by Simple Minds
    “Just What I Need” by The Cars

    you get the idea.

    I would say that “Like Lovers Do” by the aforementioned Eurythmics is the most 80′s song ever followed by “Blue Monday”.

    “These Dreams” by Heart and “Summertime” by The Sundays are the most early 90′s songs ever. “Come Undone” by Duran Duran is up there.

    What makes the 80s sound is a very specific type of melancholy sound. This melancholy will manifest itself in songs that aren’t meant to be sad and even in songs that are outright upbeat like “Take on Me”. “Welcome to the Jungle” by Guns and Roses was released in 1988 but is not “80s music” because it doesn’t have the depressed 80s sound.

    When I hear 80s music and watch 80s teen movies like The Breakfast Club and Weird Science I can’t help but believe that the 80s in America must have been the best time and place to come of age.

  157. @Greasy William

    There’s a separate ’80s music in the form of power rock, glam metal, hair metal, etc. This was a straight forward lineal evolution of music from the ’70s, rather than a radically new genre like New Wave.

    This music isn’t ’80s (despite chronologically being in the ’80s), but it is also its own cultural episode. The rock musical Rock of Ages starring Tom Cruise as the fictional rock star “Stacy Jaxx” is a great depiction of this.

    Who knew in 1987 when Welcome to the Jungle was released that in only a few years the stadium-filling rock stars who had bestrode the world like gods since Elvis first appeared that rock music would end only a few years later with the suicide of Kurt Cobain?

    I don’t know that the ’80s were a better time to come of age than the postwar era as lots of rot had already set in. But it provides a suitable white aesthetic which is recognizably modern and technological while still inducing nostalgia (including those of us like me who were born too late for it).

    A lot of this also comes through in the industrial design of the period.

    Hence why there are lots of alt-right Millennial and Generation Zyklon artists producing brand new synthwave music today.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  158. @Greasy William

    There’s a separate ’80s music in the form of power rock, glam metal, hair metal, etc. This was a straight forward lineal evolution of music from the ’70s, rather than a radically new genre like New Wave.

    This music isn’t ’80s (despite chronologically being in the ’80s), but it is also its own cultural episode. The rock musical Rock of Ages starring Tom Cruise as the fictional rock star “Stacy Jaxx” is a great depiction of this.

    Who knew in 1987 when Welcome to the Jungle was released that in only a few years the stadium-filling rock stars who had bestrode the world like gods since Elvis first appeared that rock music would end only a few years later with the suicide of Kurt Cobain?

    I don’t know that the ’80s were a better time to come of age than the postwar era as lots of rot had already set in. But it provides a suitable white aesthetic which is recognizably modern and technological while still inducing nostalgia (including those of us like me who were born too late for it).

    A lot of this also comes through in the industrial design of the period.

    Hence why there are lots of alt-right Millennial and Generation Zyklon artists producing brand new synthwave music today.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  159. Anonymous[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Middle of nowhere upper midwest really doesn’t sound like a fun place to live. Why not move operations to the south? How many employees do you have?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  160. @Anonymous

    18.

    I’ll be able to relocate somewhere civilized within a few years (while keeping operations here).

  161. Talha says:
    @AP

    I don’t think so. If I read iffen correctly, he stated that Christians get lion’s share credit for ending slavery, but not Christianity itself.

    Iffen can correct me if I’m wrong.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  162. These are the headlines I’ve been seeing in Western media lately:

    Russia propose raising retirement age above life expectancy

    https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-44495136

    The very definition of fake news. Coming from a state-owned media outlet no less.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  163. iffen says:
    @AP

    Says the guy who rejects empirically demonstrated facts (Christians basically ended global slavery) because they don’t conform to his irrational beliefs.

    You don’t know what empirical means, you apparently don’t know what fact means and you certainly don’t know what irrational means.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @AP
  164. iffen says:
    @Talha

    he stated that Christians get lion’s share credit

    No, I did not.

    People who were Christians (abolitionists) agitated for ending slavery. Establishment Christianity, not.

    • Replies: @Talha
  165. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Excellent distinction – I agree, but with the below caveat…

    Though establishment Christianity did end slavery among Christians on the Old Continent – there is little doubt of this. It was always heathens and Muslims (redundant ?) on the periphery that were fair game. In fact establishment Christianity often tried to stop Christians from selling heathens to Muslims; one major concern was that these same people were often found as slave soldiers in battle against Christian armies. So in this sense Christianity should be credited with ending most slavery in Europe itself.

    Islam did the same thing between Muslim peoples, but raiding non-Muslim territories (that did not have treaties in place) on the borders was considered OK.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  166. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen

    You don’t know what empirical means, you apparently don’t know what fact means and you certainly don’t know what irrational means.

    Beware of drunken fights, they don’t end well for anybody.

  167. An interesting chart I found, showing government spending in Russia on various items as a share of GDP

    One can see how spending on pensions has steadily risen since 2011, necessitating a reform. At almost 9% of GDP, share of pensions is greater than OECD average.

    • Replies: @Jon0815
  168. AP says:
    @iffen

    You can’t observe objectively, you deny or at best are ignorant of facts, and you are irrational.

    Better?

  169. @Felix Keverich

    The very people making fun of this would be praising it as some bold reform if someone like Yeltsin was implementing it.

    They also don’t mention that these reforms take a decade to implement due to grandfathering of those already retired or just about to retire. You cannot just tell a 59-year-old that he won’t be retiring next year, only in 2024, so a five year increase takes at least ten years. In ten years the life expectancy could increase.

    In Hungary male life expectancy was 69 years (and roughly unchanged since 1960!) when a similar increase of 60 to 65 was announced around 1960, and people were criticizing that there will be only a few years left to enjoy. But it’s a fallacy, because most who don’t survive to 65 die before 60 either, while those who reach 65 have a longer remaining life expectancy.

    Anyway, it’s interesting that the Hungarian reform was praised by the same people who are now condemning the Russian one. Similarly, I bet you these very same people would love to cut social security spending in the US or raising the retirement age in any western country. Like they were praising Macron.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    , @Dmitry
  170. @Thorfinnsson

    The 1980s saw the development of extreme metal, which was quite different from earlier forms of heavy metal. Thrash metal broke into the mainstream with Metallica, which to this day is probably the biggest remaining rock band.

    Hip hop music was basically also a 1980s development, though it had its roots earlier. It had its roots in reggae. (In pop music, nothing is completely new.) Gangsta hip hop originated in the 1980s, though its popularity wasn’t recognized until the 1990s. With the SoundScan era after 1991 it turned out that the biggest gangsta hip hop performers (as well as Metallica) were already in superstar status. But regular hip hop was already fully mainstream in the 1980s.

    It’s not very important. I think other than supporting the availability and composition of classical music (the latter is tricky because a lot of the new compositions are useless, and they all have to compete against the very greatest of the last several centuries), music should be left to the proles to choose. Nazi Germany even promoted some very American sounding music which they usually denounced as degenerate, because that was popular. Hitler wanted to force the proles to listen to classical music, but that’s impossible due to IQ issues. IQ aside, for example during workouts some form of pop music (in the broadest possible meaning, including everything, like hip hop and metal) is better than classical.

    People are passionate about their favorite music (even if it’s shitty and ephemeral by any objective standard), so the government telling people what to listen to will only result in the government losing popularity. It can probably be influenced to an extent, but stupid trends from abroad will always exist and it’s futile to resist them.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  171. I just read that Zimbardo’s famous Stanford prison experiment was fake. That’s interesting.

  172. So I just noticed the American concentration camps for children in the Hungarian news.

    Also apparently Melania just missed a great opportunity to keep her mouth shut.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  173. @reiner Tor

    Their hypocrisy is not the worst part for me here. The worst part is that they deliberately lie to make the reform appear more drastic, than it actually is. The current life expectancy in Russia is 73 years. It’s lower for men, but even so as of today 57% of men in Russia are expected to live past the age of 65. It’s simply not true to say that Russians will not be living to retirement, and yet this is what many Western headlines say.

    http://www.newsweek.com/russia-proposes-raising-retirement-age-above-life-expectancy-980448

    Newsweek is a neocon publication, that’s big on warning US public about the dangers of Russian “fake news”. So, naturally, they are doing the very thing that they accuse Russians of doing.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  174. @Felix Keverich

    To be fair, the life expectancy of Russian men does seem to be below 65, I’ve seen 63 and 64 (close to 65) mentioned, and they do write that two fifth of men may not live to see it. These are factually correct claims.

  175. @reiner Tor

    You may have seen various numbers, but if you are writing an article on the subject, it shouldn’t hard to find the latest official number – it’s 67,5 years for men in 2017

    http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/population/demo/demo26.xlsx

    Besides, most people won’t even read past the headline, and the headlines look like this:

    “Retire Never? Russia Sets Age of Retirement After Death”
    “Russia propose raising retirement age above life expectancy”

    Those are intentionally misleading and factually wrong.

  176. @Felix Keverich

    Correct: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-demographics-in-2018/

    Life expectancy has been surging in recent years:

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  177. Gerard2 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Higher than Ukraines, for the first time. When you consider the regions of extreme cold, short days, ethnic issues………that is incredible, and shows the depravity of the scumbag Ukrainian state

    • Replies: @AP
  178. The US seems to be complaining that it’s losing the ability to replace its ammunition stockpile. I think it’s probably a bit of an exaggeration.

    https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2018/05/22/the-us-is-running-out-of-bombs-and-it-may-soon-struggle-to-make-more/

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  179. Israel is criminalizing the filming of its soldiers if the resulting video shows them in a bad light.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/ministers-expected-to-back-bill-criminalizing-filming-soldiers/

  180. @Felix Keverich

    I usually assume that any bad news about Russia is just bullshit. It’s a much safer bet than the opposite.

  181. Jon0815 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    It’s estimated that this raising of the retirement age will increase Russian GDP growth by 0.3-0.5% per year over the next 15 years.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  182. In the US, the chimpout over the border continues and is actually intensifying.

    It is difficult to tell if the Dems are being forced into it by their increasingly unhinged base or whether they really do think this is good politics for them.

    Right now there is no end in sight. Trump is not going to halt this policy and the Dems aren’t going to stop chimping out. If this lasts until the midterms, great.

    • Replies: @iffen
  183. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    Higher than Ukraines, for the first time.

    With or without Donbas?

    You are once again gloating at the expense of the more pro-Russian people within Ukraine.

    Moreover, what is the source? This one states 72.11 (increase .21%) for Ukraine in 2017 and 71.2 (increase .19%) for Russia:

    https://knoema.com/atlas/Ukraine/topics/Demographics/Age/Life-expectancy-at-birth

    https://knoema.com/atlas/Russian-Federation/topics/Demographics/Population-forecast/Life-expectancy

    According to WHO in 2017 Ukraine’s life expectancy in 2017 was 71.3 and Russia’s was 70.5:

    http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/russia-life-expectancy

    When you consider the regions of extreme cold, short days,

    Another stupid argument. Iceland and Sweden are in the top 10 in world’s highest life expectancy. Canada is #12.

    ethnic issues

    Another dumb argument from you. Caucasians live a lot longer than Russians. Ingushetia has the highest life expectancy within Russia , 81.6 in 2016. Tatars also live longer than Slavs. Good job undermining yourself.

  184. iffen says:
    @Greasy William

    Media created and orchestrated spectacles like this are bad optics and upset the mushy middle.

    Ordinary Americans who are arrested are separated from their children every day, but illegals are special. :)

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Hyperborean
  185. @reiner Tor

    Music is of lower importance than immigration, but not irrelevant. We’re fighting for truth and beauty.

    I agree that directly controlling music Soviet-style is a bad idea, but one can subtly guide what people listen to simply by setting one’s thumb on the scales.

  186. @iffen

    Children are sent to concentration camps against their will and away from their families five days a week for forty weeks a year. If they resist they’re drugged or even imprisoned.

  187. Trump has tweeted about the situation in Germany:

    I have mixed feelings about this, I don’t like foreign governments commenting on German internal affairs, and it’s probably counter-productive. Still, on some level it makes me like Trump somewhat again.
    The things going on in Germany the past few days are just unbelievable. Seehofer (an untrustworthy cuck imo) wants to scale back Merkel’s open borders policy somewhat. It’s mostly cosmetic stuff, like rejecting “refugees” at the borders who have already applied for asylum in other EU countries, or rejecting people who have already been deported from Germany and are trying to come back again (yes, this isn’t possible right now!). But even that’s too much for Merkel. She’s appeared with some leftie journalist Ferda Ataman (what kind of kebab name is that? Iranian?) at some summit about “integration”…Ataman is involved with numerous migrant lobbies, Annetta Kahane’s “antiracism” foundation and has just recently called Seehofer more or less a Nazi. I guess that should be read as meaning that Merkel has openly adopted a completely far left programme and doesn’t even hide her intention to destroy Germany anymore.
    If the CSU leaves the coalition, the Greens have already offered to replace them.
    I will never understand how an irresponsible political-medial caste can intentionally destroy a country that worked reasonably well like that. If there ever is serious civil strife in Germany (and I hope it will come to that eventually), they should have to pay for what they’ve done.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Thorfinnsson
  188. @iffen

    Media created and orchestrated spectacles like this are bad optics and upset the mushy middle.

    Is it really? I checked some of the sob stories that the liberal American media are running and if I didn’t already have a strong ideological opposition to mass migration and negative real life experience with subaltern proles I think I would be quite convinced by their propaganda.

    Ordinary Americans who are arrested are separated from their children every day, but illegals are special.

    But how many Americans who read this will receive or think about the context?

    As far as the media is concerned the migrants haven’t committed any crimes and this is simply more of Trump’s senseless cruelty, and given how people have been exposed for years to comments about Trump’s vulgar and cruel nature by the media what is to say it won’t fall on fertile ground?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  189. utu says:
    @German_reader

    It is very interesting. Even if it is just cosmetic at this point it may break the spell and the taboo. And yes, ‘they should have to pay for what they’ve done.’

    Clearly there are glimmers of hope. So far small things but in this insane reality they are huge: Italy refusing to take the ship and Austria liquidating some mosques and government in Germany may fall apart because of it.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  190. @utu

    Clearly there are glimmers of hope

    Not in Germany. The establishment seems absolutely set on its course, they’re fanatics who really want permanent mass immigration from Africa and the Islamic world. There is no other interpretation, it’s intentional, and unfortunately far too many Germans are unable to overcome their brainwashing and react accordingly.
    I don’t trust Seehofer and the CSU either, imo they just want to preserve their Bavarian fief and its patronage network. Their actions are probably mostly for show because of the state elections in fall, and it might even be possible that the current conflict has secretly been coordinated with Merkel, with the intention of presenting the CSU as an alternative for disaffected conservatives and marginalizing the “fascist” AfD.
    Admittedly, the developments in Italy are encouraging, I hope Salvini will remain firm.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Mitleser
  191. @German_reader

    The US government has been meddling in the internal affairs of European countries since at least the late 1930s, so this is nothing new. Trump is at least being open about it and doing it for the actual benefit of Germans for once.

    I generally tend to agree we shouldn’t openly meddle in other countries’ affairs, but Trump threw out the rulebook a long time ago and gets results that no one else does.

    This could be to our benefit in the ongoing USA-EU trade negotiations as well.

    Lastly, this Tweet isn’t necessarily about foreign policy. Pointing out the disastrous consequences in Germany helps highlight our own ongoing problem with illegal immigration and “refugees”.

  192. @German_reader

    Gotta start somewhere.

    Seehofer has been attacking immigration since long before 2015 which is an encouraging sign.

    It’s also encouraging that he is a family man and an adulterer who embraces R-selection.

    That said if Seehofer were serious about it he would’ve broken the alliance with the CDU in 2015. Though I suppose perhaps his game all along was to bring down and replace Merkel via internal party mechanics.

    Il Capitano has balls and won’t back down.

  193. @Hyperborean

    But how many Americans who read this will receive or think about the context?

    Based on the reactions of most Americans when I attack the school system, not many. Americans have Stockholm Syndrome.

  194. @Jon0815

    It will be a very gradual raising of retirement age, so the effect will be minimal at first, but will grow more pronounced over time.

    Upper graph shows the number of pensioners. Lower graph is the impact on economic growth in percentage of GDP.

  195. @AP

    Dude, I know statistics (or integrity) is not your strong suit, but you read this blog. Why don’t you use accurate data?

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-demographics-in-2018/

    Your desire to make excuses for the Ukraine is overwhelming.

    • Replies: @AP
  196. @reiner Tor

    It seems as though they dumped half of their ammunition stockpile on the city of Raqqa last year. US might need to change its approach to warfare in the future.

    https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/yweknx/the-us-destroyed-raqqa-to-defeat-isis-locals-dont-know-if-theyll-ever-rebuild-it

  197. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Dude, I know statistics (or integrity) is not your strong suit

    Says the proven liar. Integrity?

    Here is your integrity:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/military-spending-in-2017/?highlight=azov#comment-2316166

    “Ukrainian Neo-Nazi paramilitaries such as the so-called Donbass and Azov “batallions” are indeed Ukrainian, but they are not native to Donbass. They originate from Western parts of the Ukraine. You know, the same way Panzer Army Afrika was not actually African. lol”

    Reality:

    The Azov Battalion has its roots in a group of Ultras of FC Metalist Kharkiv named “Sect 82″ (1982 is the year of the founding of the group).[18] “Sect 82″ was (at least until September 2013) allied with FC Spartak Moscow Ultras.[18] Late February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian crisis when a separatist movement was active in Kharkiv, “Sect 82″ occupied the Kharkiv Oblast regional administration building in Kharkiv and served as a local “self-defense”-force.[18] Soon, on the basis of “Sect 82″ there was formed a volunteer militia called “Eastern Corps”

    So much for your integrity.

    As for statistics, you were claiming Ukrainians were mediocre in income in the USA, remember? When in fact they are of higher income than most white ethnic groups.

    So much for your grasp of statistics.

    I am always happy to rub your nose in your own b.s. Felix.

    Why don’t you use accurate data?

    I posted data from two sources, including the World Health Organization, that provided figures for both Ukraine and Russia. Both sources indicated Russia’s life expectancy was lower than Ukraine’s.

    Karlin’s link only provides a number for Russia.

    Moreover, Caucasians live longer than Slavs, and Finnic and Tatar peoples live longer than Russians. Russia is only about 80% Slavic. Even if Russia’s life expectancy has crept above Ukraine’s it’s not because its Russians are living longer but because it has a lot of long-lived Dagestanis, Ingush, Chechens, Armenians, Tatars, etc.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @Felix Keverich
  198. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Another dumb argument from you. Caucasians live a lot longer than Russians. Ingushetia has the highest life expectancy within Russia , 81.6 in 2016. Tatars also live longer than Slavs.

    Good counter to Paul Goble’s ongoing BS, suggesting that the Russians suppress non-Russians, when the later are increasing in population, in addition to the above quoted.

    Wonder how the American Indians are doing as a comparison?

  199. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Then again, you’ve posted your share of BS.

  200. @AP

    Your tendency to deflect and obfuscate is annoying. We were talking about demographics, how the fuck do you pivot from this to Azov batallion? How does this make sense to you? lol

    The fact is the Ukraine slipped below Russia in average life expectancy. It happened in 2015 and since then Russia built a small gap. This is what Ukrainian statistics service says:

    http://ukrstat.gov.ua/operativ/operativ2007/ds/nas_rik/nas_e/nas_rik_e.html

    The figures you see on various English-language websites contain outdtated data from almost a decade ago.

    • Replies: @AP
  201. Your tendency to deflect and obfuscate is annoying.

    And your tendency to be a combative douche is annoying. So it all kinda evens out, doesn’t it?



    German_reader: From a Left wing board I visit, one American poster responds to a German poster thus:

    Please advocate for your country to militarize in order to defend liberal democracy against Russia and the US. Russia needs to be made to fear the might of Germany and Western Europe. They’ve gone too far and the world needs Germany to wake up and fight.

    p.s.: this German military response to Russia is merited by the American border crisis. Not sure what that has to do with Russia, but that’s the Left for you.

    • Replies: @Talha
  202. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Your tendency to deflect and obfuscate is annoying. We were talking about demographics, how the fuck do you pivot from this to Azov batallion?

    You were talking about integrity, and I demonstrated your lack of it. It was the first sentence of your post, that I replied to.

    If you start telling the truth I’ll stop annoying you. But I know it’s hard for you to do, when it comes to Ukraine.

    The fact is the Ukraine slipped below Russia in average life expectancy. It happened in 2015 and since then Russia built a small gap. This is what Ukrainian statistics service says:

    http://ukrstat.gov.ua/operativ/operativ2007/ds/nas_rik/nas_e/nas_rik_e.html

    The figures you see on various English-language websites contain outdtated data from almost a decade ago.

    This source has different numbers:

    https://knoema.com/atlas/Ukraine/topics/Demographics/Age/Life-expectancy-at-birth

    72.11 for Ukraine in 2017, vs. 71.2 for Russia.

    Ukraine stats never had 72.2, so as usual your claim of “outdtated data from almost a decade ago” is bullshit.

    WHO figure provided for Ukraine was 71.3. Ukraine stats had 71.37 in 2014. Not almost a decade ago.

    You really can’t help yourself but lie in every post, when it comes to Ukraine, can you Felix?

    ::::::::::::::::::::

    As for Ukraine stats in the link you provided, they don’t even have a number for 2017, which we had been discussing. In 2016 it was 71.68 (highest since 1990), an increase from 71.38 in 2015. Russia’s state stats were 71.39 in 2015 (virtually no difference, 1/100th of a year) and 71.87 in 2016 (also very slight differences, less than 1/5 of a year). Number of Caucasians and Tatars can account for this difference.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  203. Talha says:
    @Greasy William

    Coming to a female regiment near YOU!

    combative douche

    Because when you’re out there in the trenches, regular douche won’t do!

    Peace.

  204. @AP

    The link I prodived comes from the official source. International institutions rely on data from national statistic agencies, but they process it with delay. Ukrstat is the source you should rely on, and it shows the Ukraine lagging behind Russia since 2015.

    Russia’s state stats were 71.39 in 2015 (virtually no difference, 1/100th of a year) and 71.87 in 2016 (also very slight differences, less than 1/5 of a year).

    This shows Russia moving ahead of the Ukraine and with much stronger momentum. Between 2004 and 2016 life expectancy in Russia gained 6,5 years, in the Ukraine – only 3,5 years. The Ukraine had led Russia every year before that until 2015. What has transpired in 2015 is a fundamental shift: the Ukraine will lag behind Russia from now on.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Anon 2
  205. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    The Ukraine had led Russia every year before that until 2015. What has transpired in 2015 is a fundamental shift

    1. Ukraine is having a low-grade civil war.

    2. Ukraine is about 99% Slavic, Russia is only about 80% Slavic. Caucasians such as Chechens, Dagestanis and Ingush live longer than do Slavs. Their proportion of the population grows.

    So, because Russia keeps alive a civil war in Ukraine, and because it hosts a lot of Caucasians, it’s life expectancy has slipped ahead of Ukraine’s slightly. 1/100 of a year in 2015 and 1/5 of a year in 2016.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  206. I’m sick of hand-washing kitchen knives like some filthy peasant woman. What’s the point of having two dishwashers in your kitchen if you still have to clean things by hand?

    I ordered Victorinox Fibrox and Wustof Pro (consistently the highest rated cheap kitchen knives) stamped-steel plastic handle kitchen knives which are dishwasher safe and dirt cheap.

    These knives are effectively disposable (in fact many professional chefs do just that), but I have a Worksharp Ken Onion edition knife sharpening machine for whenever they lose their edge.

    One of the knives I ordered is a 12″ (Euros: 30cm) chef’s knife, which I’ve never used before. Looking forward to it.

    My fancy Japanese knives will now be display items other than when I am entertaining.

  207. @AP

    Ukraine is having a low-grade civil war.

    Oh, it’s a civil war now? Didn’t you tell me that the Ukraine is “doing well” right now? You just cannot help, but make excuses for the Ukraine. :)

    Russia always had a fair amount of non-slavic minorities, but their share in the population has been been rather stable. Caucasians in Russia already live to 80 years, so whatever room for improvement Russia has, it will likely come from ethnic Russian men first and foremost.

    • Replies: @AP
  208. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Oh, it’s a civil war now? Didn’t you tell me that the Ukraine is “doing well” right now?

    I wrote low-grade.

    Yes, it’s doing well despite the low-grade civil war. But a low-grade civil war will impact the average life expectancy somewhat.

    You seem to be unable to tell the difference between an explanation and an excuse.

    Of course, you are also dishonest, so this may explain your problem.

    Russia always had a fair amount of non-slavic minorities, but their share in the population has been been rather stable. Caucasians in Russia already live to 80 years

    Which means that when it comes to the Slavic population, Russia was even further behind Ukraine before, and still hasn’t caught up yet, despite the low-grade civil war Russia keeps going in Ukraine. So your original comment was much ado about nothing, although it provided me with an opportunity to share some or your past lies :-)

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  209. @Thorfinnsson

    How about Wang Chung (the memorable « everybody has fun tonight », I would agree with you, despite being apparently upbeat, has melancholic overtones)?

    And how about ABC? Poison Arrow comes to mind when it comes to extreme 1980s aesthetics.

  210. @Thorfinnsson

    If she didn’t already have kids, small tits, and brown eyes I would ask her to marry me.

    I hope that at least her BMI is not over 25. This seems to be a rarity nowadays in the United States.

  211. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    Reinor this week it’s huge numbers of people in Russia complaining about this proposal. The complaining is not from the West (who don’t have any interest in retirement ages).

    At the same time, most analysts understand that it is a good and necessary policy to raise the retirement age.

    It’s a hallmark example of ‘bitter medicine’ (you don’t like the taste, but it’s good for you).

    -

    However, raising the VAT to 20% is not supported by analysts.

    On the VAT issue, the government already has access to inconceivably vast amounts of money. The direction should not be to transfer more money from citizens (and all citizens have to pay VAT) to the government. The direction should be the opposite: for the government to be more efficient in managing its spending.

    This is a debate occurring and interesting in many countries. I remember seeing a discussion during the American Presidential election debates in 2012 (Romney vs Obama) – Romney was arguing government “should return money to citizens” – as the way of describing a policy of not taxing so much.

  212. Although unlikely, this border stuff could spark the 2nd American Civil War. The Democrats aren’t going to back down over this like they did over the shutdown and this time they are putting people in the street. This could get really ugly and I have no idea where it will end.

    • Replies: @Talha
  213. @Dmitry

    In Germany there’s already talk of raising the retirement age to 69 (ok, life expectancy is quite a bit higher than in Russia, so not totally comparable). I guess at least that would make it difficult to bash Russia over this.

  214. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    Admittedly, the developments in Italy are encouraging, I hope Salvini will remain firm.

    I am impressed that he is getting away with it.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  215. Talha says:
    @Greasy William

    his border stuff could spark the 2nd American Civil War.

    Everyone knows that would happen if the US and Mexico both made it to the World Cup finals.

    Guaranteed prediction: tacos will continue to be eaten.

    Peace.

  216. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    To be fair, the life expectancy of Russian men does seem to be below 65, I’ve seen 63 and 64 (close to 65) mentioned, and they do write that two fifth of men may not live to see it. These are factually correct claims.

    It’s not the relevant datapoint, since it is the life expectancy from birth.

    For the retirement argument, you need to look at the life-expectancy for a person about to retire (after they have survived to this age). Such a life expectancy level will be far higher, than the life-expectancy from birth figures.

    The life-expectancy at 60 in Russian Federation is 17 years (i.e. a person at 60 years old, has a life-expectancy of living to 77 years old).

    http://www.helpage.org/global-agewatch/population-ageing-data/life-expectancy-at-60/

  217. @Mitleser

    Hmm, not sure if that’s a smart move, saying it’s unfortunate one can’t get rid of gypsies with citizenship is bound to be controversial, as is anything that sounds like ethnic discrimination against certain citizens.
    He should focus on the Africans (and their stupid German do-gooder friends), they’re the greater threat anyway and must be removed.
    But in any case, hard not to be impressed by the Italians when one is sitting in this stupid lemming country where Merkel gets away with everything and the entire establishment is out to crush any dissent.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  218. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    In Germany there’s already talk of raising the retirement age to 69 (ok, life expectancy is quite a bit higher than in Russia, so not totally comparable). I guess at least that would make it difficult to bash Russia over this.

    It’s ordinary citizens who are going crazy and angry over this issue (I don’t think it is a EU or US relevant issue for foreigners).

    The unpopularity of the proposal resulted in some funny politics. Putin is trying to create distance between himself and this proposal, and says he has no relation to the proposal – was literally saying on Saturday Peskov: “Putin has no relation to the proposal”.

    Putin promised in 2005 that he would never raise the retirement age, for any time he is president. So now Putin is not raising the retirement age – but Medvedev is raising it.

  219. @German_reader

    Gypsies are one of the lowest-quality races in the entire world and should absolutely be a priority for removal.

    That it’s “controversial” is the point. We must (re)normalize ethnic discrimination, and urgently.

    Time’s running out.

  220. @Dmitry

    Reinor this week it’s huge numbers of people in Russia complaining about this proposal. The complaining is not from the West (who don’t have any interest in retirement ages).

    The West has every interest in destabilising Russia’s political situation though. For example, check out this headline:

    Russian men will now DIE before they retire in ‘OUTRAGEOUS’ new policy announcement

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/975707/russian-men-die-before-retire-new-policy-dmitry-medvedev-world-cup-2018-latest

    A lot of news websites in Russia operate by copying and translating content from major Western media outlets. It’s therefore likely that these fakes will make their way onto the Russian internet, and feed anti-government sentiment. Perhaps, that was the intention?

    However, raising the VAT to 20% is not supported by analysts.

    On the VAT issue, the government already has access to inconceivably vast amounts of money. The direction should not be to transfer more money from citizens (and all citizens have to pay VAT) to the government. The direction should be the opposite: for the government to be more efficient in managing its spending.

    Personally, I think the government in Russia isn’t taxing people enough. They should certainly raise the income tax. It’s very low in Russia at 13%, and flat, and doesn’t serve the function of reducing inequality. In every developed country, income tax provides a lion share of budget revenue. But Russian government refuses to make full use of it, as they are worried, they wouldn’t be able to handle evaders. So we’re left relying on oil revenues instead, which makes Russia look like a banana republic.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  221. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    In Germany there’s already talk of raising the retirement age to 69 (ok, life expectancy is quite a bit higher than in Russia, so not totally comparable).

    The life expectancy at 60 in Germany is 24 years.

    So a 60 year old German, has a life expectancy of 84 years.

    http://www.helpage.org/global-agewatch/population-ageing-data/life-expectancy-at-60/

    If retirement is raised to 69 years – there will still be quite a good retirement length for the average citizen (it’s still not pleasant, but it’s not as bad when you look at the life-expectancy at 60 data).

  222. @Thorfinnsson

    I can see your point about pushing boundaries and changing the discourse. It would be more important though imo to break the taboo about Africans and openly state that no, they don’t have any right to come to Europe, and no, they aren’t victims, they’re invaders and parasites.
    Gypsies are very unpopular anyway, whereas Africans get a lot of sympathy for mysterious reasons.

  223. When Bismark came up with the idea of Social Security it was brilliant. Since the average person was dead by 65 it was cheap and the idiot masses loved it.

    If we are going to have some form of social security in the west, we should raise the age to like 85 or something. Medicare just needs to go completely.

  224. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Personally, I think the government in Russia isn’t taxing people enough. They should certainly raise the income tax. It’s very low in Russia at 13%, and flat, and doesn’t serve the function of reducing inequality. In every developed country, income tax provides a lion share of budget revenue. But Russian government refuses to make full use of it, as they are worried, they wouldn’t be able to handle evaders. So we’re left relying on oil revenues instead, which makes Russia look like a banana republic.

    It is an interesting post.

    The flat tax scale is quite popular though even with average people, and administratively (from the government perspective) much more simple.

    I think there is an issue of “low state capacity” on both sides of this coin.

    The side of the coin (which attracts my attention), – that flooding the government with even more money than it already has, will not necessarily improve government services to citizens – or almost certainly not to an extent which matches the increase in government budget.

    On the other hand, citizens themselves will spend this money in a way which contributes more to their happiness, than would happen indirectly by taking more money from them, then giving it to the government to spend on the same citizens.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  225. OT:

    German_Reader talked about Let’s Plays and although I have not yet gotten around to Civilization 6: Russophobia Edition, it seems to be a good enough time to ramble about one of my proudest moments of manipulation and coordination in a political/strategy game called Pardus.

    A little bit of background on the game. Its basically a web game back when such were a lot more popular, and had a surprisingly large population for it, almost 10k players or so. The most relevant factions to the story were the Empire, which had around a thousand active players, and the Federation, which had three thousand. For reasons, I was invited to the Empire by two friends(who have since become close IRL friends) and knowing the vast material and manpower deficiency, wanted to see if I could singlehandedly change the outcome and defeat the Federation.

    Warning: Long, boring and geeky.

    [MORE]

    I should add too, the Empire basically ran as a feudalism so its economic model was even worse on top of everything else. It is an interesting thing, though, considering the cues of the game and how it impacted people: for all practical purposes, there was no reason for the Empire to run as a feudalism and indeed, it wasn’t even necessarily supported by the story. Sometimes I just blame the color red and wonder if it had deeper effects on the psyche of the players.

    At any rate, it meant that the economies were always dysfunctional but there was a mixed blessing – everyone was always fighting. Each of the corporations or sub-alliances of the Empire had basically shed the blood of each other, which meant that even more resources were wasted in such internal fights, but on the upside, it meant that there was a vast and comfortable level of skill in Imperial pilots. In previous wars with the Federation, this was already noted on. It had its limits: this was usually tactical skill. The Federation generally was better at bulk and felt like an unstoppable juggernaught.

    A fair fight against the Federation was utterly impossible, the Federation would win simply through blatant attrition and the fact that they were inferior at tactical combat did not mean that they were incompetent. In order to make up for the lack of pilots, force multiplication was needed and I took on the role of an intelligence agency to assist the Empire. This is a long story, but eventually I was able to get an agent into the Federal Navy’s logistic section and worked on my most nefarious plan: get the Federation to promote a woman into their highest ranks right before the Third War.

    This is a bit trollish, so its worth clarification.

    The Third War was incited by Imperial aggression…um…liberation of a neighboring star system of Aya, which was justified in our view as the Imperial system of Nari was essentially in a weak position otherwise from Federation blockades. Politically, this also gave us a “buffer zone” to keep Nari safe. Militarily, by launching a surprise attack, it allowed us to make the most of our reduced forces and attempt to capture enemy resources and delay using Imperial resources for as a long as possible. Since the Federation was going to eventually go to war anyway with us, we had to strike first.

    The now occupied Aya system was a cause for the Federation to strike back, and I was able to observe a political strand in this. An economic leader by the name of Kaela Angeles was not so subtly expressing interest in retaking Aya from the Empire, “in conjunction” with the Federal Navy but with significant independence given that she had an vast business bloc behind her. She was a highly capable person….but she had no military experience.

    I had to do two things, then:

    1) Convince her to pursue a plan to occupy Aya
    2) Convince the Federation Navy to allow her to run the operation

    The first was basically Inception. How do you plant an idea in someone else’s head? Well, you don’t. She already had that idea, but now I needed to force her to “declare” it in a way that she could not back down on. So I had my agent run a marketing campaign for her, giving her the portrait of “Angel of Aya” and then helping her campaign on the idea of “liberating” Aya from the evil Imperial masters. She was flattered and foolish enough by the former to actually put the Angel of Aya as her portrait, and became increasingly fascinated with the idea of herself as a heroine. Her math was right – with the huge bulk of resources she had, why couldn’t she just become the Mistress of Aya? Why concede it to the Federal Navy and just be a taxpayer?

    Now the second part was harder. The Federal Navy had fought two wars with the Empire and far less rosy in their outlook. While they realistically knew that they had an enormous advantage, fighting the Empire has always been tough and victory was always bloody. They had few illusions, but now with Kaela basically declaring her ambitions openly, to denounce her would cause substantial chaos…especially because they needed her companies to keep them supplied.

    Naturally, the next step was to play the diversity card on them. I had my agent comment on how the Empire had no female leaders and was really a reactionary organization: a democracy such as the Federation should demonstrate how different they are, and allow Kaela an outsized role. They could marginalize her later, after all. The Navy’s leaders were dubious, but conceded, since they had two major attacks planned anyway and figured that whatever she did was immaterial. They also, mistakenly, assumed that she would listen to them more.

    I had achieved both of my goals.

    It was beautiful. I had successfully used their democracy against them. Such a thing could never happen in the Empire; the closest equivalent to a merchant alliance demanding involvement in the war effort would be answered by militant noble challenging the merchant leader to a duel. Such foolishness would stop right there.

    Skip forward a bit of time. Both Navy attacks had stalled, I had a role in stalling one of them. With the Navy deadlocked but fighting for attrition, things were still not going well for the Imperials. But we had the Angel of Aya to save us.

    Kaela thought to show up the Navy by launching her general third attack on the Aya system. In doing so, she used up nearly a third of the entire resource base of the Federation. The Navy could no longer convince her not to do so. To be honest, after seeing the sheer, virtually unbelievable bulk of her force, I began to wonder if I had made a horrible mistake.

    In a rare moment of convergence, Imperial High Command ordered my two close friends to stop her force. They were surprisingly confident, and in the ensuring two days, her total lack of experience would show:

    1) She engaged Imperial forces to “win”, often distracting her march to Aya. As such, the Imperials would use understrength flotillas to distract her and give her victories. Each victory cost her, and she gained nothing for it beyond ego.

    2) She did not understand, nor appropriately respect the Navy’s fear of Imperial skill. In something that even I didn’t know until recently, the Imperial High Command had perfect wargames of what was needed to lose Aya. So they knew exactly how much they needed to weaken her invasion force by.

    When she finally reached Aya, it was with a force that was understrength yet oversized, dependent on supply lines that were cut, and ultimately defeated in a massive battle above Aya in total. She didn’t seem too dismayed, defeat had to be someone else’s fault, and she reasoned that it wouldn’t be seen as a Fed Navy defeat anyway. Technically, it was just hers, and her corporations. She took of the Angel of Aya from her title. She went back to running her corporations.

    Of course, that wasn’t how the average Federation member saw it. The resulting collapse in morale…from having a “won war” get deadlocked and a third attack smashed…was near total for the Federation. Still in shock of what happened, the Federation Navy was caught off guard by immediate Imperial counterattacks and force to withdraw and abandon their allies. I had my agents spread rumors of Federal perfidy and cowardice, naturally. This did not net any turncoats as I had hoped, but it did destroy any faith in the Federal Navy.

    In the end, the Third War ended with the Empire in control of all major Federal sectors and perhaps the most complete defeat of the Federation ever. Around then, I chose to exit the game; in the long run, there was no way to defeat the Federal advantage in numbers. And the Imperial High Command, high off victory, was beginning to splinter and probably was able to fight each other over their new territories.

    I could sense the “victory disease” coming, and I didn’t want to stay to see the result. It was still a great story, and I like to think, that in many ways, I significantly impacted a battle between thousands but with enough placed whispers.

  226. @Dmitry

    On the other hand, citizens themselves will spend this money in a way which contributes more to their happiness, than would happen indirectly by giving more money to the government to spend on the same citizens.

    The beauty of the taxation system and income tax in particular is that it enables the government to redistribute money from those who have too much of it, to those who need it more. The upper and middle classes in Russia are not savers: they spend their salary on tourism and imported goods. The Russian economy won’t lose much if they have a smaller disposable income to spend.

    On the other hand, the government could use that additional revenue to lower VAT, stimulating business activity and improving living conditions for the poor (VAT is a tax that disproportionally affects the poor). It could enable the government to establish a system of food stamps, generous subsidies for young families with children etc. There are all sorts of nice things the government could do using revenue from income tax.

    Russian budget would then be less dependent on taxes paid by energy industry. This money could be stored in a soveregn wealth fund, and used to finance infraustructure projects.

  227. @AP

    As usual, you are both somewhat correct.

    1. The Ukraine was usually ahead of Russia by around 2 years even during the USSR, now they have leveled. Felix wins.

    2. Russia is not meaningfully ahead of the Ukraine. AP wins.

    3. Caucasians only constitute ~5% of the population. It is also worth noting that the LE figures (and demographic figures in general) from Chechnya and especially Ingushetia are not reliable – they inflate their populations, meaning that mortality rates are higher and LE is lower than on paper. OTOH, adjusting for this would probably make Russia essentially equal to the Ukraine. Felix wins.

    4. The civil war in the Ukraine is not killing a statistically significant number of people. Felix wins. Possibly it is staving off improvements in healthcare and/or anti-alcohol regulations, though OTOH, they have always been low priority so far as I know. Unclear who wins.

    5. Apart from Caucasians, Russia also has Buryats, Tuvans, Yakuts, and other native peoples who due to their alcohol problems have lower LE than Russians. This likely balances things out anyway. Felix wins. Though this does also invalidate Mikhail’s whataboutist point about Native Americans having lower LE than White Americans (their real point of comparison in Russia would be with Tuvans, etc).

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Felix Keverich
  228. @German_reader

    There’s a cultural expectation in Russia that the government is out to rip off people – give them an inch, they take a mile.

    This explains the 2005 protests over the monetization of benefits – benefits are real, set things, while additional subsidies can be inflated away.

    Ergo with the retirement age. The government can promise to raise pensions to compensate, but will they really? This is why people are very unhappy with raising the retirement age from 60/55, which are set in stone and can’t be quietly done away with.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  229. @Thorfinnsson

    I was talking with a white American in Romania, one of those BLM-supporting boomer types. I was amused to see that when the conversation drifted from American fascist police shooting innocent Negroes to the Gypsy Question he abruptly transformed from a liberal cuck into a hardcore Nazi.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  230. @Anatoly Karlin

    Perhaps it’s wise then to start with the gypsies.

    Pick the low-hanging fruit first, as it is a major battle dismantle the Holy Negro sacrament.

    Fortunately the negroes in America are aiding this battle greatly with their Black Lives Matter (fact check: false) rubbish.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  231. @Thorfinnsson

    People in Europe who consume only mainstream media (that is the vast majority) get a very filtered view of race relations in the US and many probably regard something like BLM as a legitimate civil rights movement.
    Maybe people will wake up when there’s more misbehaviour by blacks in Europe.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  232. @German_reader

    Generally speaking people have a more accurate view of their own country than foreign countries, as with respect to foreign countries the vast majority of people are totally dependent on the media.

    Witness the extreme unpopularity of American Republican Presidents in Europe for instance. In Canada things have gotten so unhinged that people in Trudeau’s inner circle are calling for Magnitsky-style sanctions against Trump and his family.

    I browsed through Spiegel the other day and the tone of the magazine was nothing short of apocalyptic.

    Endless fretting about the “postwar liberal international order” about to end. The horror of Germany becoming…independent.

    In fact after Trump won the election Spiegel had an amusing cover of an asteroid in the form of Trump’s head hurtling into planet Earth.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  233. @Thorfinnsson

    There’s an entire collection of really unhinged SPIEGEL covers about Trump:

    Trump as ISIS butcherer, killing the statue of liberty:

    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmeedia.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F02%2FBildschirmfoto-2017-02-04-um-00.38.22.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmeedia.de%2F2017%2F02%2F04%2Ftrump-titel-so-spaltet-das-kontroverse-spiegel-cover-das-netz%2F&docid=Y3rznzKhOCebYM&tbnid=oBwIXuN-18Od_M%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjxpszSut7bAhVMWxQKHXtGA8kQMwg8KAAwAA..i&w=3236&h=1900&client=firefox-b&bih=786&biw=1600&q=trump%20spiegel%20isis&ved=0ahUKEwjxpszSut7bAhVMWxQKHXtGA8kQMwg8KAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

    Trump as klansman:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+spiegel+isis&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3ufDQut7bAhUTlxQKHaGLAssQ_AUICygC&biw=1600&bih=786#imgrc=K0aLmR26sqEOxM:

    And feeding into the paranoia about Trump being a Russian candidate:

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&biw=1600&bih=786&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=bE0oW5SnJsreU9mMjKAG&q=trump+spiegel+cover+doppelregent&oq=trump+spiegel+cover+doppelregent&gs_l=img.3…16455.18562.0.18767.13.13.0.0.0.0.81.925.13.13.0….0…1c.1.64.img..0.2.160…0i30k1j0i8i30k1.0.z82q0wmzRjk#imgrc=7lwFA0SVqDUG_M:

    Even if one has misgivings and concerns about some of Trump’s policies (as I do), this is obviously crazy stuff.
    German media over the last few years has really done everything they could to show that they’re indeed the Lügenpresse.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Anon
  234. To Americans: https://shop.californiaoliveranch.com/Rich-and-Robust-Extra-Virgin-Olive-Oil/p/COR-100230&[email protected]

    Highly recommend this olive oil. Rich, robust, spicy, buttery flavor. Reasonably priced. Made in America. Not adulterated.

    For you Euros just avoid anything “packed in Italy” since it’s almost certainly adulterated by the mafia with soybean or canola oil. Skip Spain as well since it’s nearly all arbequina olives.

    Greek olive oil is generally a good bet.

  235. Gerard2 says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Ergo with the retirement age. The government can promise to raise pensions to compensate, but will they really? This is why people are very unhappy with raising the retirement age from 60/55, which are set in stone and can’t be quietly done away with.

    In no country are people ever hapy with the retirement age being increased. The most important thing here is that a key stetegic goal of Putin in his Federal Assembly address is to raise the life expectancy to 83 by 2028 ( when the male pension age reaches 65)…with the great success of Russia this is a wholly acheivable goal. A life expectancy at this level ( which would probably bring Moscow and Saint Petersburg close to 90 in life expectancy) makes moaning about retirement age lifting , pretty much irrelevant.

    The extreme North is protected and the often sympathised teachers get a massively beneficial deal that can allow early retirement on full pension after 30 years of service

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Dmitry
  236. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Caucasians only constitute ~5% of the population.

    Correct. But their life expectancy is a lot higher (Ingushetia is 82.6!) So their impact is probably not trivial, if small. And their population is growing relative to that of Slavs.

    How do they inflate population figures? Do they count those who have moved to Moscow as locals?

    The civil war in the Ukraine is not killing a statistically significant number of people.

    There is also suicide and alcoholism among veterans, and probably a lot of bad infrastructure in the Donbas oblasts still under Kiev control. We are talking about small overall differences, but small effects would create those.

    Apart from Caucasians, Russia also has Buryats, Tuvans, Yakuts, and other native peoples who due to their alcohol problems have lower LE than Russians

    These peoples have small populations. OTOH Tatars live longer than ethnic Russians on average. As do the Finnic peoples. So Caucasians plus Tatars plus Finnic peoples well outnumbers Tuvans and Yakuts. Overall the non-Russian minorities outlive the Slavs and boost Russia’s LE stats.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  237. @German_reader

    Trump’s trade policy is obviously negative for Germany, though any objective German can understand why we take issue with the trade situation.

    His Iran policy might be negative (we don’t know yet, but so far nothing negative for Europe). Trump seems to be starting to view himself as a “peacemaker”, so I hope that becomes part of his self-conception and causes him to alter his views on Iran. That said withdrawing from the Iran Deal didn’t create war.

    But other than that considering him some sort of lethal threat is absurd. Which of course you already knew.

    And if anything Trump cares more about Germans than Obama did, as evidenced by his views on the rapefugee crisis.

    Those Spiegel covers are amazing by the way LOL.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  238. @Gerard2

    Retirement is for losers and should be abolished.

    The fuck do you do all day?

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  239. @Thorfinnsson

    That said withdrawing from the Iran Deal didn’t create war.

    It made it more likely though, imo a very flawed policy. Trump’s unconditional support for Israel and Saudi-Arabia could well end disastrously.
    Problem just is that Trump rarely gets criticized for policies where it’s actually justified, instead his hysterical leftie and centrist enemies with their politically correct pieties do their best to remind one why he was elected and why he still might be better than some alternatives.

    Those Spiegel covers are amazing by the way LOL.

    Some of them were drawn by a Cuban-American:

    https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-meet-artist-der-spiegels-viral-trump-covers

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  240. @Anatoly Karlin

    You forgot another point I made: current momentum favors Russia over the Ukraine. Give it 15 years, and Russia will have meaningful lead over the Ukraine.

  241. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    [MORE]

    With or without Donbas?

    You are once again gloating at the expense of the more pro-Russian people within Ukraine.

    Moreover, what is the source? This one states 72.11 (increase .21%) for Ukraine in 2017 and 71.2 (increase .19%) for Russia:

    LOL…this pitiful garbage is hilarious, to put it mildly. Typical of a moronic loser.
    Russia’s life expectancy is 72.5 you retarded prick . Ukraine’s is less than 72 ( obviously those are figures that don’t count the DNR/LNR ,as with everything of Ukraine’s doped-up statistics you thick POS.)

    72.5 vs less than 72 is an amazing and inexplicable turnaround you cretin.
    Your stats are about has relevant and as accurate as my toilet brush.

    What’s more , my source is pure common sense….and Veronika Skvortsova …a very successful woman full of integrity and purpose. Ukraine’s “Health Department” is headed, naturally, by a crazed Canadian Banderatard Nazi bitch currently involved in bringing “exciting things” to Ukraine, like massive increases in TB rates, numerous other diseases, malnourishment level explosion….and even more failings in hospitals

    Another stupid argument. Iceland and Sweden are in the top 10 in world’s highest life expectancy. Canada is #12.

    errrrmmm…the winters in Reykjavik (70% of Iceland population)and areas in which 95%+ of the population of Sweden live ,Stockholm and Malmo , (the only 2 cities in Sweden I have visited) alone are 3 out of the 10 million Swedish population,) are not anywhere near the extreme cold of areas as Murmansk,Omsk, Irkutsk, Yakutia …..or even Saint Petersburg and numerous others you thick prick POS! Kiev wouldn’t survive in nearly 3 months of total darkness like Norilsk. Your dipshit talk is even more stupid when we consider that they and Canada don’t have the huge operational heavy industries, big cities with sizeable populations, in areas of extreme cold&daylight issues….. as Russia does. Norilsk has 2-3 more times the population than the entire northern area of Canada you useless POS! Stockholm’s winters are closer to France’s or Britain’s than the areas in Russia I refer to you cretinous prick.

    Iceland and Sweden are in the top 10 in world’s highest life expectancy. Canada is #12

    errrmmm……Nobody disputes that Ukraine is a failed , artificial country run by scumbag prostitutes of the US. Nobody disputes that Sweden and Iceland are normal, prosperous nations.
    Typical of your time-wasting attentionwhoring nonsense to suddenly try and insiduously deflect the issue ( incorrectly and stupidly) onto other western countries.

    The simple facts are that if Ukraine had Russia’s cold/daylight/ethnic issues then it’s life expectancy would be immeasurably worse than it is now

    Another dumb argument from you. Caucasians live a lot longer than Russians. Ingushetia has the highest life expectancy within Russia , 81.6 in 2016.

    LOl……..you are shamelessly copying the point that you only know because I INFORMED YOU precisely of this a few days ago, when making the point of how western Ukraine/Galicia is effectively Ukraine’s equivalent of the North Caucasus…..except alot worse. It’s typical of your spamtard moron algorithm to fuck up with yet more stupidity. Who the fuck said or even hinted I was refering to the Caucasus you idiot? Siberian regions is what I more had in mind you freak. Overall with the cold/daylight/ethnic republic issues we are talking about areas that encompass 30% + of Russia’s population…..yet still Russia survives and thrives, whilst Kiev sinks into the cesspit.

    But anytime you sink into your period ( again) , you can just watch this:

    Also easy to note that Moscow and Saint Petersburg have life expectancies hugely superior to Lvov’s. Numerous other megopolis’s in Russia like Kazan too you dumb troll POS

    • Replies: @AP
  242. Gerard2 says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Retirement is for losers and should be abolished.

    The fuck do you do all day?

    I would guess look after the grandkids….receiving none of the pay or benefits that a hired professional would get for the same thing. Watch all the World Cup games?

    But I would partially agree with you on this

  243. @German_reader

    To be clear I don’t support Trump’s Iran policy.

    That said no disaster so far.

    And who knows, perhaps he’ll go to Tehran in his second term and make peace.

  244. Dmitry says:
    @Gerard2

    The most important thing here is that a key stetegic goal of Putin in his Federal Assembly address is to raise the life expectancy to 83

    The correct datapoint to look at is not life-expectancy from birth, but life expectancy from age of retirement (which is a lot higher).

    Life expectancy at 60 is 17 years (i.e. 77 years old).

    So raising retirement age looks more rational when you realize average retiring people will have 17 years retirement already currently.

    But – whether or not it is reasonable, and I think it is reasonable – it is also undeniable people are extremely angry about the proposal of raising pension age. Whether this anger fades or not who knows.

    People in general are seeming unusually angry at the government this year.

  245. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    Poor gerard2 failed and is now very angry :-)

    Your vulgarity won’t cover your failures.

    Russia’s life expectancy is 72.5… Ukraine’s is less than 72

    It increased from 71.38 in 2015 to 71.68 in 2016. At that rate it (or even a lower one) would be over 72 in 2018.

    Ukraine’s is less than 72 ( obviously those are figures that don’t count the DNR/LNR

    No, but they include Donbas territory under Kiev’s control.

    the winters in Reykjavik (70% of Iceland population)and areas in which 95%+ of the population of Sweden live ,Stockholm and Malmo , (the only 2 cities in Sweden I have visited) alone are 3 out of the 10 million Swedish population,) are not anywhere near the extreme cold of areas as Murmansk,Omsk, Irkutsk, Yakutia

    You mentioned extreme cold and short days. Days in winter are shorter in Stockholm and Reykjavik than in Moscow, Omsk, Irkutsk, etc. St. Petersburg is about the same as Stockholm. Only Murmansk is an exception.

    So your comment about “short days” was nonsense.

    As for temperature – note that Canada is as cold as Russia. It’s life expectancy is #12 in the world. Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton, and Winnipeg are a lot colder than St. Petersburg in winter. They are even colder than Moscow or Nizhni.

    Norilsk has 2-3 more times the population than the entire northern area of Canada

    Norilsk has a higher life expectancy than Slavic Pskov, Novgorod and Tver oblasts, purely Slavic areas which are a lot warmer than most Canadian cities.

    Krasnoyarsk krai (Norilsk’s province) is only 2% of Russia’s population.

    if Ukraine had Russia’s cold/daylight/ethnic issues then it’s life expectancy would be immeasurably worse than it is no

    If Ukraine was as loaded with Caucasians, Tatars and other non-Slavs as Russia is, its life expectancy would be higher.

    you are shamelessly copying the point that you only know because I INFORMED YOU

    Don’t overestimate the extent to which I pay attention to your silly posts.

    Also easy to note that Moscow and Saint Petersburg have life expediencies hugely superior to Lvov’s

    Moscow perhaps, St. Petersburg no.

    In 2018 Moscow has a life expectancy of 77.9 and St. Petersburg of 75.5. For Moscow oblast it was 73.4 and for Leningrad oblast it was 72.5.

    I don’t have data for Lviv city but for Lviv oblast it was 73.2 in 2012::

    And Ukraine’s life expectancy has grown since 2012.

    So if in 2012 Lviv oblast’s life expectancy was higher than Leningrad oblast’s 2018 life expectancy, most likely Lviv city’s life expectancy is higher than that of St. Petersburg.

    Your claim of “Moscow and Saint Petersburg have life expediencies hugely superior to Lvov’s” is as stupid as your other claims.

    The Galician oblasts are the longest-living pure East Slavic place in the world.

    Galicia is effectively Ukraine’s equivalent of the North Caucasus

    Another stupid claim. They have in common high life expectancy. In that case, Iceland is Europe’s equivalent of the North Caucuses, lol.

    ::::::::::

    LOL that you are posting to a link in which everyone speaks Ukrainian but you keep trying to tell people they are speaking Russian.

    Maybe next you will try top prove again that Polish, Russian and Ukrainian are the same language by using the Yushchenko interview like you did before? That was especially funny.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  246. @AP

    How do they inflate population figures? Do they count those who have moved to Moscow as locals?

    More details on this:

    1. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-demographic-data-for-2016-released/#comment-1805422

    2. https://sputnikipogrom.com/politics/52925/dead-souls/

    These peoples have small populations. OTOH Tatars live longer than ethnic Russians on average. As do the Finnic peoples. So Caucasians plus Tatars plus Finnic peoples well outnumbers Tuvans and Yakuts. Overall the non-Russian minorities outlive the Slavs and boost Russia’s LE stats.

    But the effect if any will be small, because:

    1. The peoples with the biggest advantage, the relatively teetotalling DICh, have exaggerated LE’s and there aren’t many of them.

    2. LE advantage of Tatars, Bashkirs, and Chuvash is smaller: Approximately one year.

    3. Some Finnic peoples, esp. the ones more prone to alcoholism, live less than Russians (this applies to Udmurts, and especially the Mari).
    And of course the Tuvans, Yakuts, etc. live considerably less (LE in 90% Tuvan, Tuva, is more than 7 years below Russian average).

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/russia-demographic-data-for-2016-released/

  247. @Thorfinnsson

    Is that the one that used to be McEvoy Ranch EVOO? If so, I agree, it’s one of the very best, though unfortunately on the pricey side.

    For you Euros just avoid anything “packed in Italy” since it’s almost certainly adulterated by the mafia with soybean or canola oil.

    How frequently does this happen? I know there were a few scandals about this, but I don’t know if this is systemic or not – e.g., if the standard bottle of Italian EVOO will be contaminated this way. Also would the Greeks not be prone to this as well, given they’re no less corrupt than the Italians? Anyhow, I suppose this is a moot question for me, since almost all the EVOO sold in Russia is Italian, I think.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  248. Elon Musk: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/06/18/elon-musk-email-employee-conducted-extensive-and-damaging-sabotage.html

    From: Elon Musk
    To: Everybody
    Subject: Some concerning news
    June 17, 2018
    11:57 p.m.

    I was dismayed to learn this weekend about a Tesla employee who had conducted quite extensive and damaging sabotage to our operations. This included making direct code changes to the Tesla Manufacturing Operating System under false usernames and exporting large amounts of highly sensitive Tesla data to unknown third parties.

    The full extent of his actions are not yet clear, but what he has admitted to so far is pretty bad. His stated motivation is that he wanted a promotion that he did not receive. In light of these actions, not promoting him was definitely the right move.

    However, there may be considerably more to this situation than meets the eye, so the investigation will continue in depth this week. We need to figure out if he was acting alone or with others at Tesla and if he was working with any outside organizations.

    As you know, there are a long list of organizations that want Tesla to die. These include Wall Street short-sellers, who have already lost billions of dollars and stand to lose a lot more. Then there are the oil & gas companies, the wealthiest industry in the world — they don’t love the idea of Tesla advancing the progress of solar power & electric cars. Don’t want to blow your mind, but rumor has it that those companies are sometimes not super nice. Then there are the multitude of big gas/diesel car company competitors. If they’re willing to cheat so much about emissions, maybe they’re willing to cheat in other ways?

    Most of the time, when there is theft of goods, leaking of confidential information, dereliction of duty or outright sabotage, the reason really is something simple like wanting to get back at someone within the company or at the company as a whole. Occasionally, it is much more serious.

    Please be extremely vigilant, particularly over the next few weeks as we ramp up the production rate to 5k/week. This is when outside forces have the strongest motivation to stop us.

    If you know of, see or suspect anything suspicious, please send a note to [email address removed for privacy] with as much info as possible. This can be done in your name, which will be kept confidential, or completely anonymously.

    Looking forward to having a great week with you as we charge up the super exciting ramp to 5000 Model 3 cars per week!

    Will follow this up with emails every few days describing the progress and challenges of the Model 3 ramp.

    Thanks for working so hard to make Tesla successful,
    Elon

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  249. @Anatoly Karlin

    The beginnings of the Tyrell Corporation.

    Quite cyberpunk.

    • Replies: @bb.
  250. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    Great stuff, but we don’t really need all the random stuff about your internet habits (I use Firefox too.) You can post just the picture (example: https://i.pinimg.com/236x/fb/b8/24/fbb824e6a8b052fee8b9a740fbd62969.jpg) or use a hyperlink (< a href =”[link]” > [text] < /a >)*

    example

    *let’s see if this scans

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Talha
  251. @Anon

    Thanks, that’s helpful, I knew it’s hardly ideal just to post an entire link, but was too tired to look for a solution. How does one get pictures to show in the comment?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  252. @German_reader

    LOL, looks like Trump is living rent free in Spiegel editors’ heads. Just like Putin has been doing at The Economist for the past 15 years.

  253. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    [MORE]

    It increased from 71.38 in 2015 to 71.68 in 2016. At that rate it (or even a lower one) would be over 72 in 2018.

    Ukraine’s is less than 72 ( obviously those are figures that don’t count the DNR/LNR

    FFS. One final time you useless prick. Russian life expectancy 72.5, Ukrainian life expectancy less than 72. A ridiculous turnaround

    You mentioned extreme cold and short days. Days in winter are shorter in Stockholm and Reykjavik than in Moscow, Omsk, Irkutsk, etc. St. Petersburg is about the same as Stockholm. Only Murmansk is an exception.

    So your comment about “short days” was nonsense.

    hahah! FFS, again you cretin. ‘Extreme cold AND short days” you idiot….coupled with the fact of these being highly populated and industrialised areas you POS ( because Russians can make miracles in impossible situations). No place in Sweden with over 25000 people that gets 3 months of permanent darkness like Norilsk (200000+)you thick cretin.
    Imbecilic, beyond plausibility to compare Stockholm or Rejkjevik to the infinitely colder areas of Murmansk,Omsy,Irkutsk,Yakutia ..and so do many others in Russia

    If Ukraine was as loaded with Caucasians, Tatars and other non-Slavs as Russia is, its life expectancy would be higher.

    Tatarstan, which you’ve obviously never been to , is the most non-ethnic Republic, ethnic republic around. Huge intermarriage, the way the police, chinovniki, academics , driving, everything act is one not similar to an ethnic republic as Chechnya you imbecile retard. A united russian culture, not Tatar culture is the dominant one. Even with the amount of criticism the Russian Central Bank is getting , being a Tatar is not brought out against her in the way it would be if from Dagestan.
    So with intermarriage and the way they act it is beyond stupid to include them

    30 million non-slavs. 11 from the Caucasus/Tatars. Ethnic republic regions with life expectancies below that of Kazan,Moscow and Saint Petersburg are the majority of the ethnic minority in Russia you idiot

    the rest is more bollocks that I can’t be bothered to time-waste with now. What a POS cretin

  254. Talha says:
    @Anon

    That is a really cool cover, stylistically. Looks like something Frank Miller would have done. Even the font they used is right on.

    Bravo!

    Peace.

    Note: I don’t care if it’s about Trump or Putin or Erdogan or…I’m just giving credit for an awesome minimalist design.

  255. bb. says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    nah….just preparing for the 5k/week M3 production no-show i suspect. Not that production rates are relevant by themselves, the opex are, but that’s their chosen battlefield goal for stock momentum.

    oooh….you mean like the Tyrell corp. went bankrupt by 2049….nice burn ;)

  256. @bb.

    Well, I was playing around with their claims of being attacked by a hostile corporation.

    Everything about this is strange. Of course, disgruntled employees sometimes act out in malicious ways. Occasionally, I’ve known even as far back as 2008 that competitors actually will engage in acts of malice against others. But all of this sounds more like, as you said, justification for upcoming failure. Things to note:

    1) When acts of malice occur, they are usually suppressed by the company. You do not want to advertise that internal chaos happened. This is considered reputational risk. Then again, Musk breaks a lot of rules of protocol.

    2) “Acts of malice” by corporations against each other usually is targeted hiring, by picking away a key member of a project. This is legal, and does not need some sort of arcane and highly illegal destruction of company property.

    One thing he is oddly correct about, though, is that my experience is indeed that it is the oil companies that are most willing to engage in such ops(but again, its usually targeted hiring). You’d think it’d be the SV companies, but they play surprisingly nice to each other with employee noncompete agreements and avoidance of targeted hiring to my experience.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @bb.
  257. @bb.

    I should add – I bet this does nothing to help with the already cultish atmosphere that is probably in Telsa. Now you get to accuse your work rival of dark aims against the fatherland company! Just write to this anonymous email box.

  258. Turkish F-35 gets blocked by Congress?

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/06/senate-approves-bill-block-f35-transfer-turkey-180619085252727.html

    It might be good for the Su-57 project that both India and Turkey could be blocked from acquiring the F-36 and so might turn to Russia, if for nothing else then to spite the Americans.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  259. @Anatoly Karlin

    McEvoy is a different and much more expensive brand.

    Olive oil adulteration is systemic. I can’t speak to Russia, but in America two-thirds of all olive oil sold is adulterated. It mainly happens in Italy and is literally done by the camorra and mafia.

    See this Jew York Crimes infographic from 2014: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/01/24/opinion/food-chains-extra-virgin-suicide.html

    Greeks are corrupt but lack organized criminal syndicates. Costco switched the sourcing of their Kirkland Signature EVOO (aside from their “Tuscan” label marketed to Italian-American Baby Boomers) from Italy to Greece.

    Perhaps there is Syrian EVOO available in Russia for the patriotic consumer.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  260. @reiner Tor

    https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=115&session=2&vote=00128

    The 85 Senators who voted for this are TRAITORS who are directly contributing to America’s ongoing current account deficit.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  261. @Thorfinnsson

    Text of the bill is here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5515/text

    The bill also attacks Turkey for buying the S-400 and calls for the President to impose sanctions in response.

    Ridiculous.

    Maybe America should produce a competitive SAM system if we don’t want others buying the S-400?

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  262. @Thorfinnsson

    The explanation I’ve seen in American media is that US military is worried that Russia could somehow use S400, sold to Turkey, to plug into F35 systems and learn everything about how US plane operates. Let’s not forget that F35 was developed at the cost of over $1 trillion to combat ONE adversary. It may be worth it to sacrifice Turkey sales, if this is what it takes to keep crucial information out of Russia’s hands.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  263. @Felix Keverich

    This would only be to our benefit since the F-35 is a piece of shit, and would thus force us to develop a replacement.

    I don’t buy this angle because there was no hysteria when Greece purchased the TOR M1.

    It’s just reflective of the current Russophobic hysteria that developed in Washington after Russia conquered the Crimea.

  264. @Talha

    raiding non-Muslim territories (that did not have treaties in place) on the borders

    Rather expansive definition of “border”, it seems to me.

    They often made raids, called Razzias, on European coastal towns to capture Christian slaves to sell at slave markets in places such as Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Algeria and Morocco. According to Robert Davis, from the 16th to 19th century, pirates captured 1 million to 1.25 million Europeans as slaves. These slaves were captured mainly from seaside villages in Italy, Spain and Portugal, and from farther places like France, England, Ireland, the Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Russia, Scandinavia and even Iceland, India, Southeast Asia and North America.

    The impact of these attacks was devastating – France, England, and Spain each lost thousands of ships, and long stretches of coast in Spain and Italy were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants. Pirate raids discouraged settlement along the coast until the 19th century.

    Concise History of Islam
    By Muzaffar Husain Syed, Syed Saud Akhtar, B D Usmani

    • Replies: @Talha
  265. @reiner Tor

    Have you or your loved ones have been affected by border separations? Tell CNN.

    Have you or someone you know been affected by family separations at the US border? CNN’s reporters want to hear about it.

    You can reach us by sending a text, WhatsApp message or iMessage to CNN at +1 347-322-0415.

    Someone troll this line.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  266. Mitleser says:

    Is the Russian language/history exam that useful?

    https://inosmi.ru/politic/20180618/242503946.html

    • Replies: @DFH
  267. @Daniel Chieh

    I’m on it.

    When I was 4 I was separated from my parents when reentering the United States with a Swedish passport. We were later reunited.

  268. I don’t buy this angle because there was no hysteria when Greece purchased the TOR M1.

    Incidentally, Greece has not participated in the “international procurement program” and is unlikely to ever get F35.

  269. DFH says:
    @Mitleser

    Japan is pretty difficult, so if it were a hard enough exam (especially with a written component) it could probably function as an IQ filter

  270. @reiner Tor

    To be fair, the life expectancy of Russian men does seem to be below 65

    When Social Security was enacted in the US in 1935, with 65 as a retirement age, life expectancy was 62 (60 for men, 64 for women). So in that sense this all seems simply to be much ado about nothing, or more accurately simply standard Russia-bashing.

  271. @Thorfinnsson

    I am telling them a tragic story of how my wife was separated at the border from her loved one prior to coming into the US from Canada, and how her family member was subjected to all manners of indignity in a cage and inspection without any choice on his part.

    She was later reunited with her cat.

  272. Personally, I cannot think of anything Russia could impose a tariff on. Russia imports a lot of high quality drilling equipment from the US. But placing tariffs on that will mainly hurt Rosneft’s bottomline.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  273. Mitleser says:

    Greater Africa will begin at the Rhein.

    So, the country of middle aged teenagers has worsening demographics:

    Births: 391,930 (-4.5%)
    Deaths: 423,643 (+3.2%)
    Balance: -31,713

    TFR: 1.31 (-0.02) of which 1.25 for Spaniards and 1.70 for immigrants

    And on this day, the socialist Spanish administration removed co-payments for pensioners and is planning to remove motorway payments despite a report blaming Spain (yet again) for throwing money out of the window on useless roads and AVE lines. Spain is literally doing nothing to improve its demographics, while setting the stage to make the effects of ageing ever worse by catering to pensioners and to its long-term infrastructuratis disease.

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=149582803&postcount=6399

  274. @Thorfinnsson

    We were later reunited.

    But you’re still suffering the after effects

  275. Mitleser says:
    @Felix Keverich

    What about American aircrafts?

  276. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Musk possibly has narcissistic personality disorder (especially this dream the whole world is somehow trying to sabotage him – even though it is more the opposite way round, and a huge amount of people are directly financially invested in his company succeeding).

    There’s something very similar to Trump for his behaviour (obviously Musk is far more intelligent in the academic level – his “saving the human race” megalomania is higher megalomania than anything Trump shows).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  277. Mitleser says:

    Spanish students forced out of their houses to make room for Aquarius migrants

    Several students from the local student residence are now being forced from their lodgings despite having paid their accommodation fees so the migrants, arriving from Libya, can be housed, according to the online daily Actualidad Valdepeñas.

    A young German language student in Alicante named Rubén, who is planning to live and work in Germany in his future, paid €750 a month for his room, has now been forced to leave along with the other students housed there.

    His mother has stated that her son has had to leave the residence to make room for the Aquarius migrants: “They have told us that they cannot be there because they come with many illnesses, so this is a health issue”.

    “It’s like we are solving one problem by causing others, and this is a big problem because right now there is nowhere in Alicante for my son to live and continue with his studies. We are going to go there to see if we can find something, but it will be very difficult since everything is already booked for the Summer months,” she explains.

    Rubén’s mother does not believe that it can be due to a “health issue” otherwise the local authorities surely wouldn’t be housing hundreds of sick migrants in the centre of a busy tourist city like Alicante.

    Authorities announced on Saturday 16 June that Rubén and his colleagues only had 24 hours in which to collect their belongings and vacate the residence.

    https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/06/spanish-students-forced-out-of-their-houses-to-make-room-for-aquarius-migrants/#.WygaIpDpRSE.twitter

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @DFH
  278. Talha says:
    @for-the-record

    Sure, it’s a border if you don’t count the water. ;)

    Pirates tend to do that sort of thing – I mean, they are pirates after all. Likewise, Europeans (when they became more capable) also raided far away for slaves:
    “We [therefore] weighing all and singular the premises with due meditation, and noting that since we had formerly by other letters of ours granted among other things free and ample faculty to the aforesaid King Alfonso—to invade, search out, capture, vanquish, and subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever, and other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed, and the kingdoms, dukedoms, principalities, dominions, possessions, and all movable and immovable goods whatsoever held and possessed by them and to reduce their persons to perpetual slavery.”

    http://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/show/african_laborers_for_a_new_emp/pope_nicolas_v_and_the_portugu

    Of course, if you’re going to do slave raiding, please come prepared (from above source)…
    “Portuguese mariners soon learned that inhabitants along the Upper Guinea coast were more than capable of defending themselves from such incursions. Not long after his 1441 voyage, Tristão and most of his crew were killed off the coast of present-day Senegal.”

    Peace.

  279. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    I think Musk and Trump are sometimes quite positive figures in ways, though.

    It shows how people with narcissistic personality disorder can sometimes succeed where people with normal psychology are failing, and that it is not always justifiable to use the word “disorder”. (But these people from a distance – it is not pleasant if those personalities are your boss at work).

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @AaronB
    , @Gerard2
  280. @Mitleser

    A young German language student in Alicante named Rubén, who is planning to live and work in Germany in his future, paid €750 a month for his room, has now been forced to leave along with the other students housed there.

    Complain to Merkel.

  281. @Dmitry

    Psychologists are a frauds.

    http://bigthink.com/articles/is-racism-a-form-of-mental-illness

    While it isn’t in the DSM V—the manual containing all anointed psychiatric conditions, some experts believe that extreme racism should be. Oxford psychiatrists for instance did include “pathological bias” in their own version, the Oxford Handbook of Personality Disorders, last revised in 2012.

    “Disorders” is just the new form of heresy so then the state can “cure the insane.”

    How can xenophobia be reduced and altruism strengthened? Researchers have shown in a new study that the bonding hormone oxytocin together with social norms significantly increases the willingness to donate money to refugees in need, even in people who tend to have a skeptical attitude towards migrants.

    What conclusions can be drawn from these results? It appears that pairing oxytocin with a social norm can help counter the effects of xenophobia by enhancing altruistic behavior toward refugees. “The combined enhancement of oxytocin and peer influence could diminish selfish motives,” says Hurlemann.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  282. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I don’t think that because of one negative story of a potential politicization in the profession, that it implies that these clusters of symptoms (personality disorders) do not exist (in explanatory useful way).

    Where is the connection in the argument? That because of a single news story, then a move to claiming fraudulence of the profession and also all its past work.

    It seems that the concept of personality disorders (clusters of symptoms) such as narcissistic personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, etc – are obviously useful for understanding behaviour, and that wider public could learn practical benefits from dissemination of knowledge from this field (of what symptoms are often counter-intuitively clustering together – e.g. that ).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  283. DFH says:
    @Mitleser

    At least it’s better than suddenly finding the building you live in filled with Africans.

  284. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Of course, it is a field (psychiatry) open for political abuses, so it could be quite scary this story you posted.

    -

    On another topic.

    In Poland Senegal match

    Local fans were cheering for Senegal next to polite Poland fans.

    But Polish fans were reported very positively and are now seeming in love with Russia.

  285. bb. says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    UuuuI think that industrial espionage is relatively common, or firms would not invest substantially into security, though mostly it’s probably just information gathering.
    my favourite example of an act of malice is the hacking of a steel mill in germany which shut it down and damaged it in the process(https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30575104). Do you know of any other interesting cases, maybe in the oil industry?
    As you note, usually the company would try to hide such incidents to not look weak and foolish. There might be deminishing marginal returns on breaking protocol, just sayin..:)
    On side note, there was a fire at a Ford factory recently which shut down the production of their prime product, the F150(https://amp.ft.com/content/abdd6bbe-53cd-11e8-b3ee-41e0209208ec). I don’t think it was sabotage but imagine Ford went around ‘implying’ malice. On the other hand, the rules might be changing-globalization brings in players from cultures who don’t mess around and you just have to adapt.

  286. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    People with motivation succeed.

    Now that science has killed ideals only exceptionally selfish people remain motivated.

    But there used to be other personality types who were just as motivated, although for different reasons.

  287. @bb.

    The only ones I know for certain was some oil companies contracted to this woman who would pretend to be an old friend, or a family member and try to slip by “gatekeepers” in order to get in contact with C-level employees in order to then contact them and hire them away. She would sometimes pretend to be sick or have an urgent case that needed to let her talk to someone. This was before LinkedIn, I don’t think you need such silly games now. I’m suspect that she did other cases of corporate espionage, but I don’t know for certain.

    The oil company I worked with in Africa engaged in all sorts of things, but I don’t really think they had a choice otherwise: bribery, mercenaries, and violent politics is day to day life. I partly suspect that the more aggressive attitude that mineral companies have comes as a side-effect of having to deal with such situations.

    There was a rumor when I worked in SV also that some companies would have their security teams have a “black” section which would launch anonymous, generalized attacks on their competitor’s websites. All I know is that when I was analyzing incoming logs once to stop an attack, it was during US hours but origin information claimed “Republic of Iran.” Who knows?

    And of course, the most obvious and completely legal form of corporate malice is the standard “sue smaller competitor to oblivion”, basically what would often count as malicious misuse of legal proceedings. Large companies have powerful ligating teams and huge warchests, allowing them to involve small competitors in endless lawsuits which small companies cannot scale up with.

  288. @bb.

    It said attackers used booby-trapped emails to steal logins that gave them access to the mill’s control systems.

    lol.

    They do make dumb phishing sound so sexy and high-tech, don’t they? Its probably still one of the most effective attacks out there, I’ve seen a C-level employee fall for it and because he also insisted on having digital access to everything(why? No idea), it proceeded to essentially explode our entire environment. The joys of ransomware.

    Fortunately, we had backups, but lost 48 hours of work.

  289. I was reading Panorama (the official journal of the Porsche Club of America) during lunch at the diner today.

    It reports that Porsche is installing 800V high power charging stations at every Porsche dealership in the USA. The chargers will be able to recharge the upcoming Mission E to 80% capacity within twenty minutes, good for 250 miles (Euros: 400km) range.

    Volkswagen is also partnering with Wal-Mart to install high power chargers at 100 Wal-Marts in America.

    $TSLAQ

    In other automotive news the CEO of Audi was arrested over Dieselgate, and BMW is now being investigated by German officials as well. The ecoterrorist persecution of German diesel makers is absurd, and it’s bizarre that the German government is going after the beating heart of the German export machine.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Dmitry
  290. Mitleser says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Blame Trump, says der Spiegel

    Whereas American banks remain the undisputed leaders not only in the U.S., but also well beyond, the balance of power in the global automotive industry is markedly different. Here, German manufacturers from VW to Daimler to BMW dominate. That’s why the U.S. government has been ratcheting up pressure on German carmakers since Trump took office.

    Their preferred target has been Volkswagen. The Wolfsburg-based company reached a settlement with the Justice Department at the beginning of 2017. In total, the fines the company had to pay along with the compensation to American owners of its diesel vehicles amounted to more than $20 billion. There is no question that the company deserved the punishment. It’s growth in the U.S. market had been based on the myth of clean diesel, a lie the company perpetuated by installing cheat devices in its diesel vehicles allowing VW to claim far lower emissions than was actually the case.

    But the longer the scandal drags on, the more critically industry insiders are asking what is happening with other manufacturers with deeper roots in the U.S. — car companies that are also believed to have manipulated emissions readings. In May 2017, for example, the Justice Department accused Fiat-Chrysler of deploying cheat software in close to 104,000 of its diesel vehicles. But the proceedings have been slow and a decision over a possible penalty still hasn’t been made.

    Increasing Pressure on Daimler

    Instead, the U.S. authorities appear to be increasing pressure on Daimler. Representatives of the Stuttgart company were recently summoned to appear before the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). It’s already a foregone conclusion that Daimler is going to have to pay a considerable sum, and at this point negotiations are focusing on how high the settlement will be, say sources within the U.S. justice system. Officials at Daimler say they won’t comment on speculation over ongoing legal proceedings.

    For VW, too, the scandal in the U.S. isn’t over yet. At the beginning of May, the U.S. District Court in Detroit confirmed charges against former VW CEO Martin Winterkorn on the very day that new VW head Herbert Diess called for a cultural shift at the company during its annual shareholder meeting.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/donald-trump-making-life-tough-for-german-companies-a-1212271.html

    America and China 2025 might break German global economic power.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  291. @Mitleser

    The USA targeting German automakers is logical.

    The German government itself doing so is not.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  292. Mitleser says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    German Zeitgeist is Green.
    Cars, German or not are not that Green.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  293. @Mitleser

    “Green”

    There is certainly nothing green about atomophobia. Germany’s hysterical, irrational fear of atomic power has led to major increases in coal-fired power generation.

    Including the use of lignite.

    The “Green” faction Germany is also in favor of a introducing nationwide speed limit on the Autobahn. Disgusting swine.

    If the NSDAP ever returns to power an immediate priority must be rounding up these political arsonists and confining them to concentration camps. These camps must have on-site nuclear reactors for heat, and the inmates should daily be reminded of it.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  294. @Thorfinnsson

    It’s a misconception to think that the Greens are primarily about ecology. Many of their prominent politicians from the founding era onwards had a background in weird Maoist sects and other far left groups; e.g. there was one guy, Joscha Schmierer – who got a nice job at the foreign ministry under Fischer – who had been head of the Kommunistischer Bund Westdeutschland (Communist League West Germany) in the 1970s and had made a friendly visit to the Pol Pot regime. Fischer himself of course had a violent background on the fringes of terrorist activism. That generation has now mostly receded into the background (though there’s still Jürgen Trittin, also a former member of some weird Maoist group), but behind the bourgeois facade the Greens are still basically a far left party imo. Not on economic matters, but certainly in their antinational zeal. If it harms Germany, they’re in favour of it.
    Personally I think concentration camps would be too good for them.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Daniel Chieh
  295. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    In other automotive news the CEO of Audi was arrested over Dieselgate, and BMW is now being investigated by German officials as well. The ecoterrorist persecution of German diesel makers is absurd, and it’s bizarre that the German government is going after the beating heart of the German export machine.

    Diesel cars are horrible for lungs, because of the NOx and also higher release of (carcinogenic) particulate emissions (and reliability of the filters they use to reduce particulate emissions seem variable if they are not regularly maintained).

    Even though air pollution is horrible in a lot of Russian cities for various reasons, it is one small area things are possibly advanced of Western Europe: a lot lower market penetration of diesel engine cars (although not of trucks).

    -

    In London it’s something very strong already (partly because of very high market penetration of diesel vehicles in UK).

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  296. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    If it harms Germany, they’re in favour of it.

  297. @German_reader

    Its amazing that they actually exist as a political party, given that they seem to be antifa loons.

  298. @Dmitry

    Modern diesel cars are very clean.

    Don’t confuse diesel passenger cars with trucks and buses.

    American regulators set an excessively low emissions standard because regulators always feel the need to “improve” upon existing regulations, even when there is no need.

    Volkswagen’s clever defeat device allowed for their cars to have more horsepower and better fuel economy than would’ve been possible if they’d complied with the gay regulations. In effect Volkswagen is being persecuted for building superior cars.

    The only way Volkswagen could’ve met the emissions standards without compromising powertrain performance would’ve been to install a cat piss tank in the car, which the Golf is too small to accommodate unless the independent rear suspension is removed (resulting in bad handling characteristics).

    Dieselgate should’ve been a wakeup call about unreasonable regulations. Instead it seems that diesel passenger cars will simply disappear from the American market, which is a real shame as diesel cars have many excellent characteristics.

    The morons at CAFE even raised the future mileage standard to an absurd 54 miles per gallon by 2025 (only two cars even available in America today meet this standard), which would ensure that all cars sold are homo-sexual. Fortunately Trump rescinded this diktat, so our cars are saved…for now.

    Eric Peters has good libertarian takes on the car industry: https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2018/06/18/oj-is-free-but-audi-executive-is-in-a-cage/

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  299. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Modern diesel cars are very clean.

    Not in terms of NOx, and potentially not in terms of particulates (yes only if the diesel particulate filter [which exists in diesel cars built newly in recent years] is functioning correctly – but in reality diesel particulate filters are very often not functioning correctly).

  300. @Thorfinnsson

    I drove a diesel-powered Dacia SUV in Romania. Its fuel economy was amazing.

    Ploiesti Brasov there and back (220km), plus three days of driving (maybe another 100km); it was still three quarters full at the end.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Dmitry
  301. @Anatoly Karlin

    In addition to their excellent fuel efficiency they can be run on a variety of fuels such as kerosene and even vegetable oil. The owner of the local Culver’s franchise runs his 3/4-ton pickup truck off of his used deep fryer grease.

    The multi-fuel capability is in fact what ol’ Rudy Diesel invented his engine for in the first place.

    Diesel engines also have excellent low-end torque and thus offer better off-the-line acceleration for typical motorists (i.e. people who don’t know how to launch a car).

    Diesel engines also last longer than gasoline engines. There are still lots of W116 and W126 diesel S-classes on the roads. Can’t kill a Mercedes Benz diesel. An excellent vehicle to acquire if you wish to look like an 80s villain (e.g. Victor Maitland from Beverly Hills Cop) for the next 30 years.

    Downside is they cost more and diesel fuel stinks.

  302. @Thorfinnsson

    IMHO, the absolute best is not to be found in Greece but there:

    https://boutique.barroux.org/1326-huile-d-olive

    I don’t know about the USA, but I know for a fact that they ship the 3L oil “fountains” to CH (and therefore certainly at least anywhere into the EU).

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  303. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Diesel has a higher energy density by volume (although not by weight), than petrol. (Petrol may have actually slightly higher energy density by weight).

    And of course, fuel is sold (and also measured by the driver psychologically – in the tank) by volume, not by weight. So there is both economic and psychological reasons that people believe that diesel has a higher energy density (although if we customarily weighed fuel, it would not be).

    Aside from diesel having higher energy density by volume, there may be a difference in the fuel efficiency of CI engine (I am not sure why though).

  304. @Guillaume Tell

    Thank you, I will recommend this to my father since he lives in France.

    I won’t order it as I don’t need the best EVOO, but simply a very good EVOO which I can be sure is EVOO. And for patriotic reasons I prefer to purchase American where possible.

    There is an old saying among unionized American manufacturing workers: Buy American, Be American

    On the topic of Buy American, my Allen Edmonds order arrived today.

    The Sarasota woven penny loafers are stunning.

    https://www.allenedmonds.com/shoes/mens-shoes/loafers-slip-ons/sarasota-weave-slip-on-penny-loafer/SF1070.html?dwvar_SF1070_color=1070#start=2

    Made with pride in Port Washington, Wisconsin.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  305. Anon 2 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Interestingly, Poland (98% Slavic)’s life expectancy in 2017 was 77.5 years,
    and is continuing to increase. This shows that there is nothing inherently low about
    the Slavs’ life expectancy. Poland is expected to exceed the American life expectancy
    soon. The latter has, of course, dropped recently – something that typically only
    happens in times of war, famine, pestilence, and economic depression (opioid-related
    deaths probably contributed)

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  306. Things are looking really grim for Yemen. Any readers/posters here who like Yemenites would be advised to enjoy their remaining time with them, because the Anglo-Zionist steamroller is probably going to vaporize them within the next few months. Let’s hear it for Saudi Arabia! Nice work, boys!

    On on related note, is Iran seeking to set the record in failed military interventions? Can’t they like at least win just one to make things more interesting?

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @German_reader
    , @Talha
  307. Mitleser says:

    Norks do it right!

    Fertility in North Korea at 1.91 children per woman

    As probably expected from a country like North Korea, fertility is pretty uniform in a regional sense. The capital Pyongyang has 1.8 children per woman, and the most fertile province is South Hwanghae with 2.1, located between Pyongyang and the inner-Korean border.

    University educated women have 1.7 children while upper-secondary educated women have 2.0 children.

    The poorest 20% have 2.1, the richest 40% 1.9 and those inbetween also 1.9.

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=149610263&postcount=39181

  308. DFH says:
    @Greasy William

    Can’t they like at least win just one to make things more interesting?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  309. @DFH

    The war that devastated Lebanon so badly that Nasrallah had to publicly apologize to the Lebanese people for starting it? The war that traumatized Lebanon so badly that Hezbollah has refused to lift a finger to help Hamas in Gaza despite the IDF carrying out 4 large scale slaughters there over the past decade? The war that cost Lebanon 2 billion to rebuild from, mostly coming from the Gulf states who will certainly not be providing the ungrateful Lebs with a single dime next time? That war?

    When Israel has expanded from the Nile to the Euphrates, the Temple is rebuilt, the Palestinians have been expelled and Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Turkey and Iran have been erased, you will still be talking about 2006. It’s all you have left.

  310. @Thorfinnsson

    There is an old saying among unionized American manufacturing workers: Buy American, Be American

    Totally fair. I also try to buy from White countries for the most part. But for some things (electronics for instance) it’s impossible. I order things from the US too. But the sad part is that it’s most certainly Jews that own those companies I order from anyway.

    Thank you, I will recommend this to my father since he lives in France.

    What a strange thing to do. May I ask what he likes so much about living there?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  311. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/20/pope-francis-trump-family-separations-655496

    Pope Francis on Sunday chastised the Trump administration’s practice of separating migrant children from their parents at the border, saying “populism is not the solution.”

    In an interview with Reuters published Wednesday, Pope Francis said he supports U.S. Catholic bishops who had called separating families at the border “immoral” and contrary to Catholic values.

    “Let it be clear that in these things, I respect (the position of) the bishops conference,” he said.

    More broadly, the pope criticized populists for “creating psychosis” on immigration issues in Europe when some countries in the continent need more immigrants to offset an aging population.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  312. @Guillaume Tell

    I am considering Chinese knockoff Gucci loafers since the actual product is unreasonably priced. Charging a thousand dollars for leather loafers is completely unreasonable. You can buy American-made shell cordovan brogues for less! Unfortunately no one else executes such wild designs.

    As Weihan Zhang might say, “no spend expensive italian pimp clothes buy aliexpress save much”

    The Jews aren’t as economically dominant in America as many believe. There is a significant presence, but actual Americans are also formidable businessmen.

    I think his wife is the main reason (not French, but has a typical aristocratic obsession with the “South of France”), but he is a gourmand and oenophile which helps. Additionally he’s an Anglophobe which no doubt aids in bonding with the French.

    That said probably he would’ve enjoyed Germany more.

  313. @Daniel Chieh

    Who installed this globohomo faggot anti-pope? I doubt the gerontocratic College of the Cardinals is naturally inclined to this level of poz.

    We know that the CIA helped install Carol Wotilja, so why not Soros for the installation of Bergoglio?

    I suppose I should be grateful for anything that discredits romish papism however.

  314. AP says:

    Tank competition, in which the Ukraine team came in last.

    Ukraine apparently had two problems: team was given tanks with defect, and course was laid out to Ukraine’s disadvantage (low dugout).

    Details, with video, about the first problem:

    http://defence-blog.com/army/ukraine-trying-hide-info-t-84-tanks-problems.html

    On 15 June, Captain Roman Bagaev, whose platoon is regularly declared to be the best tank platoon in Ukraine, told in an interview with a newspaper the Novynarniaabout serious problems with the upgraded Ukrainian T-84 main battle tanks.

    Ukraine’s tankmen with T-84s taken part in Strong Europe Tank Challenge 2018 annual training event designed to give participating nations a dynamic, productive and fun environment in which to foster military partnerships, form Soldier-level relationships, and share tactics, techniques and procedures. But in this year the Ukrainian team took the last place despite the use of the newest T-84 tanks.

    Captain Roman Bagaev said that the cause of losing in Strong Europe Tank Challenge 2018 competitions lie in serious problems with T-84 combat vehicles, modernized and overhauled at the SE “Kharkiv Morozov Machine-Building Design Bureau” in Kharkiv.

    The T-84 main battle tank has seen a number of problems. The big issue has been breakdowns that leave the tank without a weapon stabilization system.

    The Novynarniahas released videos showing serious problems with T-84’s automatic loader for its 125-mm gun, fire control system and also problems related to insulated wiring.

    Ukrainian tanks were unable to hit targets at a distance of more than 1 km due to problems with stabilization of the main armament.

    “Each tank was given ten rounds, for all four tanks – forty. We were able to fire only 16 shells out of 40,” said Roman Bagaev.

    Also, he noted that at other stages of the competition, Ukrainian team scored a lot of points, but the firing gave up, and that was the most important thing.

    For its part, representatives of the plant accused the crew of the tanks in poor preparation. They at first did not even believe in problems with tanks and refused to accept comments about critical defects.

    According to the Malyshev Tank Factory, the T-84 is a modern vehicle, developed by the SE “Kharkiv Morozov Machine-Building Design Bureau”. The T-84 has the latest gunner’s sight, detecting the target “tank” up to 3500 meters, and “infantryman” type target – up to 2,200 meters. Taking into account the 125-mm gun with a loader that allows firing at a rate of 8 rounds per minute, it ensures effective destruction of targets in a minimum amount of time.

    The main battle tank T-84 is more advanced, compared with the T-64BV, used by Ukrainian crew during international competitions in 2017.

    Needs to be noted that last year, the Ukrainian tankmen in ageing T-64BV tanks took 4th place out of five teams, placing ahead of the Polish team in their Leopard 2A5 vehicles.

    :::::::::::::::::::::::

    I guess it is good news that Ukraine still mostly uses upgraded T-64BV and T-64 BM tanks which perform better despite being older (T-64 originated in 1960s but T-64BV was from 1985 and T-64BM from 2005).

    According to wiki, Ukraine has about 700 T-64BVs, 100 T-64 BMs, 200 T-72s, 20 T-80s and only 10 T-84s in service.

    Because T-84s are expensive, Ukraine prioritized fixing and modernizing its T-64 BVs over building new T-84s for its military. Given the T-84s problems this may have been a good thing.

    As a comparison, Poland has about 700 tanks in service, a mix of Leopard 2A4 and 2A5, PT-91, and T-72s. Given that Ukraine’s T-64BVs outperformed Poland’s Leopard in 2017, it’s probably fair to say that Ukraine has an edge over Poland with respect to its tank force.

    Hungary, meanwhile, has 34 tanks in service!

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  315. @Thorfinnsson

    Its been quite a mystery to me how he got to Pope. This entire virtue signaling is particularly strange too – assuming that he did indeed believe in this crap, then he should be preaching to a Catholic country such as Poland where his position might actually hold value(although I hear sedevacantism is increasing there, rightfully).

    Rambling about Trump, who is not a Catholic, in regards to America, which is not a Catholic country, is completely nonsensical.

    That said, I am happy at least that Wikipedia has offered succor in this regard:

    List of people burned as heretics

    This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.

  316. @Greasy William

    Nice work, boys!

    If there’s indeed mass death in Yemen, this will come to haunt the Western powers involved and eventually be seen as a horrible mistake, as something to feel guilty about (and it will of course be used as an argument for mass immigration – “We helped destroy their country, we must take them in”); pretty appalling imo that French special forces are supposedly directly aiding the Gulf Arabs in their assault on Hodeidah.
    It’s dubious enough to kill foreigners in far away places for one’s own interests…but for the benefit of that awful Saudi scum? Just stupid.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  317. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    TVRCX

    An early form of “Latinx”, most valuable to etymologists.

  318. @Thorfinnsson

    I doubt the gerontocratic College of the Cardinals is naturally inclined to this level of poz.

    Its German members certainly would be, the Catholic church has been one of the main supporters of Merkel’s open borders policy (which is good business for them, the social organizations of the churches like Caritas are profiting massively from the “refugee” influx), in fact it seems to be not enough for them.
    Right-wingers who think some form of Christian-based national conservatism is the answer to Europe’s problems are just dreaming imo.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @AP
  319. @German_reader

    Traditionalist Christians generally argue that the major denominations have been captured by SJWs and are better described as “Churchianity”.

    You can read about this perspective from Dalrock and Vox Day.

    Italians are dominant in the conclave, and as I recall the Panzer Cardinal was fairly conservative as Pope.

    American bishops have been consistently awful on immigration as well. We need to conclude a concordat with the Vatican strictly prohibiting papist interference in our political affairs.

    If the so-called bishop of Rome refuses, we should threaten to expropriate without compensation papist assets and to back schismatic church factions such as a “Church of Saint Patrick” for Irish-Americans.

    That said this isn’t just an issue with the romish papists. The leadership of America’s major protestant denominations have all been captured by SJWs, which the members are beginning to rebel against. The head of the once reactionary Southern Baptist Convention is for instance a total globalist faggot.

    It’s generally effective to tell professing Christians who express leftist sentiments that they worship globalism/liberalism, and thus Satan, rather than Jesus Christ.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @German_reader
  320. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    German bishops are probably the worst in the world; they’re even much worse than ours in the US.

    American bishops have been consistently awful on immigration as well. We need to conclude a concordat with the Vatican strictly prohibiting papist interference in our political affairs.

    With American bishops it’s at least rational (they want more congregants). Everyone knows this and nobody pays any attention. Also, the crazy generation is starting to die off.

  321. @Thorfinnsson

    and as I recall the Panzer Cardinal was fairly conservative as Pope

    At least Benedict kept his mouth mostly shut about immigration issues (or I just didn’t notice it) and was mildly critical of Islam. But Catholic conservatism or traditionalism is mostly idiotic imo, I don’t care about their stupid issues about liturgy or about their obsessions with homos and other sex stuff. On the issues that really matter, like stopping African mass immigration to Europe, they’ll eventually cuck anyway.
    In the US there’s real separation of church and state at least, even if the churches are still very involved in the “refugee” business. In Germany they’re really privileged to an absurd degree…not only is the state collecting church tax from their members for them (something which doesn’t exist like that in any other country as far as I know), they also get hundreds of millions (no joke, it really is that much, about 500 million Euros just in 2015) of taxpayers’ money as compensation for the secularisation of church property in 1803. Obviously I would be in favour of taking all those privileges away from them, one should help the church and its prelates in attaining the ideal of apostolic poverty.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @DFH
    , @Mitleser
  322. Talha says:
    @Greasy William

    This is what is called an exchange of hats. Yemen has never been a land where it is unified under some kind of central authority. Mostly, some team captures a few major cities and ports (the choke points in the Red Sea out to the Indian Ocean) and the rest of the country says; “yeah, ok, whatever dude” as long as they are left mostly alone.

    If the port is kept open to allow humanitarian aid (this is my major concern and I keep up with Muslim humanitarian orgs about this situation since I try to send money there), then who controls the port cities is not of huge significance – at least to the local population. It obviously means a lot to oil companies and international shipping through those routes.

    Yemen produces only two things historically for export: 1) really high quality coffee beans (https://www.portofmokha.com/) and 2) religion (mostly of the traditional Sufi variety – pound for pound they are probably most responsible for spreading Islam around the world). There is likely no reason why Saudi will interfere with either of those.

    Prediction: the Houthis will retreat from the coastal and major cities into interior of Yemen where the Saudi coalition will leave them alone – seeing how they have been this difficult to handle even though only one side has complete air superiority and modern tanks.

    Peace.

  323. @German_reader

    You should care about homos and sex stuff.

    Homo-sexuals are disgusting degenerates who spread disease (GRIDS rate exceeds 10% among sodomites) and prey on boys. They also define themselves by their sexual identity rather than a proper identity and thus nearly always side with The Enemy.

    The sexual revolution has been a disaster which destroyed the family and collapsed birth rates, and now the rate of venereal disease infection is skyrocketing. There is also a new breed of antibiotic resistant strains of bacterial VDs.

    The idea that we can ignore sex matters to gain cooperation on other issues is largely a fantasy. People committed to evil are rarely evil in just one area. Evildoers hate themselves and want to destroy everyone and everything around them.

    Given the uselessness (actually outright harmfulness) the church in Germany certainly it no longer makes sense to transfer taxpayer money to them, but I don’t see anything wrong with compensation for the assets that were expropriated from them as a matter of principle.

    It’s worth noting there are a few useful romish papist factions like Opus Dei and the Society of Saint Pius XII. In a America judges with a romish papist background tend to be fairly reliable conservatives as well. Pat Buchanan is a romish papist and has been very harsh on Bergoglio.

    • Agree: Greasy William
    • Replies: @for-the-record
  324. DFH says:
    @German_reader

    I don’t care about their stupid issues about liturgy or about their obsessions with homos and other sex stuff

    Nothing wrong with not wanting little children to be given hormones so they can be prey for homos.

    they also get hundreds of millions (no joke, it really is that much, about 500 million Euros just in 2015) of taxpayers’ money as compensation for the secularisation of church property in 1803

    That would be cool if the Church wasn’t so pozzed. The Queen should compensate the Church for the Dissolution of the Monasteries.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  325. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    not only is the state collecting church tax from their members for them (something which doesn’t exist like that in any other country as far as I know)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

  326. AP says:
    @German_reader

    Right-wingers who think some form of Christian-based national conservatism is the answer to Europe’s problems are just dreaming imo

    Says someone who has no children and states he probably never will (sorry, I think you aren’t a bad guy, but this is IMO a valid criticism). People like you are the problem, not traditional Catholics.

    1. A re-Christianized Europe would have a positive population growth, rendering a potential influx of non-Christians less troublesome and less of an existential threat. Moreover, better population growth = more young people. More young people = more push-back against migrant crimes, because youth are inherently more hot-headed. So minorities would not only be outnumbered, but would be better behaved. And if there wasn’t room for them because the native population was stable or growing, they probably wouldn’t come in the first place. Prior to the 20th century nobody would have cared about possible migration – on the contrary, the European Christians were expanding and colonizing other places. Christian Spain of the 16th-17th centuries is probably the only nation to ever completely de-Islamify a place. It Europeanized large parts of the globe, wiping out temples devoted to human sacrifice to demons and building baroque cathedrals out of the ruins. I don’t think those Christian Spaniards were whining about migration or transformation – they were the ones transforming others. It is precisely the abandonment of Christianity and a Christian lifestyle that led Europe to its current position.

    2. All post-Christian attempts have ended in failure. Mid 20th century nationalism was just mass slaughter of Europeans. Communism was just mass slaughter, plus ugliness, plus collapse in fertility. Secular hedonistic humanism, the dominant one currently, is ugliness, plus fertility collapse, plus self-hatred. No mass slaughter, at least. You think some other experiment will turn out better? Christianity is proven to have worked in the past and still works where it is applied.

    Why do you blame the Church if your people have collectively chosen to abandon its principles and therefore to die out? The Church wanted your embrace, you have deliberately rejected it and chosen some form of self-worship instead, which as we see leads to death either slowly or quickly. The Church is universal, it will move on with those parts of humanity who have not chosen self-extinction. And leave you secularists, Right or Left, in the dust.

  327. @German_reader

    Well Europe is already taking in everybody regardless and the US is on the brink with the border crisis. Really everybody in the world right now should be focused first and foremost on the US border because of how big this has the potential to be.

    agree that the Saudis are scum though.

  328. @Thorfinnsson

    his wife is the main reason (not French, but has a typical aristocratic obsession with the “South of France”), but he is a gourmand and oenophile which helps. Additionally he’s an Anglophobe which no doubt aids in bonding with the French.

    Very certainly. He will get a lot of mileage over there for that reason alone.

    So if I understand well (sorry I’m new here), your dad moved the family from Sweden to the USA about 30 years ago, but then moved himself to France and left behind a now uprooted Swedish-American son? I don’t mean to sound harsh on your dad, but if it’s that, well then it’s not cool in my book.

    Who installed this globohomo faggot anti-pope? I doubt the gerontocratic College of the Cardinals is naturally inclined to this level of poz.

    Homosexualism has arguably taken the upper hand at the highest levels of the Latin Church. The SSPX types (for whom I have a lot of respect although I thunk their position is inconsistent for reasons that we may discuss in the future here) put all the blame on the Vatican II general council of 1962-1965 (iirc). They certainly have a point in that those things have started to manifest themselves massively after said council and the ensuing chaos and collapse of clerical as well as lay discipline that followed. But I believe that the causes are deeper and can be found in the very beginning of the East/West schism.

    By the way Protestantism (which like Athena from her father’s leg, sprung forth all endowed and equipped from
    Catholicism) exhibits the same maladies as the Latin Church — just worse.

    We know that the CIA helped install Carol Wotilja,

    Interesting. If you have some references I’ll be happy to read these.

    I suppose I should be grateful for anything that discredits romish papism however.

    May I ask if you’re a Christian of a particular “denomination”, and if so, which one? In the interest of full disclosure, I was baptized and raised Catholic (ie Latin Church) but became an Orthodox Christian as an adult.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  329. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP

    And leave you secularists, Right or Left, in the dust.

    I don’t know about that, Christ was pretty categorical about the “narrow gate”, and “shall he find, think you, faith on earth?”

  330. @DFH

    That would be cool if the Church wasn’t so pozzed. The Queen should compensate the Church for the Dissolution of the Monasteries.

    Agreed.

    According to E. M. Jones, and he is arguing this case very well in “the Jewish Revolutionary Spirit”,this proceeds of this grand-scale loot provided the real original capital at the root of the England’s economic take-off (and earlier industrial revolution that on the Continent where such massive looting of the monastics did not occur until much later).

    • Replies: @DFH
  331. @AP

    FWIW, I think that German_Reader has agreed that there is a crisis of belief but that doesn’t mean that he(or anyone) can simply just pick up a form of pre-modern thinking and accept it given the secular rationality of general thinking.

    Its a fair point, though with modern liberalism being as popular as a “religion” as it is, I suppose that it shows that indoctrination and propaganda do work. I don’t see him agreeing with that either way though.

  332. Gerard2 says:
    @Dmitry

    It shows how people with narcissistic personality disorder can sometimes succeed where people with normal psychology are failing,

    Is it just me, but isn’t Trump quite self-deprecating and not the narcissist he’s claimed to be?
    He send’s up jokes about his hair ( as in he knows how ridiculous it ), loves criticism because he is practical enought to know all of it is good PR for his business or his Presidency

    and for a guy he pretends to be your average dumb,boorish, typical, “Go America” American idiot……….there must be something in the fact that two of his wives are Slavic.

    • Agree: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  333. Gerard2 says:
    @Anon 2

    Interestingly, Poland (98% Slavic)’s life expectancy in 2017 was 77.5 years,

    Poland exports millions of people and criminals, for a supposedly “Catholic” country it has very small size families …and nice environment that is is….is was near American levels of life expectancy for nearly decades after 1945.
    The main difference is this aspect between Poland and say Belarus, is that a higher % of men in Belarus are employed in heavy industry jobs in comparison to Poland, this makes most of the difference because the female levels of life expectancy are roughly the same

    Moscow ,Kazan and Saint Petersburg have considerably higher life expectancies than Poland’s average. It is a miracle that Russia’s is where it is considering the issues of extreme cold, daylight in places in ethnic issues…..it is though a joke that it has an even higher average than Ukraine, and this has transpired after the Euromaidan freakshow

  334. Talha says:
    @AP

    Why do you blame the Church if your people have collectively chosen to abandon its principles and therefore to die out?

    “How many were the gardens and the watersprings that they left behind, and fields of grain, and noble dwellings, and wealth (and conveniences of life), wherein they had taken such delight? Even so (it was), and We made it an inheritance for other folk; And the heaven and the earth wept not for them, nor were they allowed respite.” (44:25-29)

    It is rather an interesting phenomenon to observe from a semi-outsider’s perspective. I have no idea what the future holds within my lifetime, but there seems to be a massive setup in the works.

    My teenage son and I were driving back from taraweeh prayers a couple of weeks ago, well past midnight – we were both pretty exhausted from the daily Ramdan routine – and he said to me; you know, we seem to be the only ones that take religion seriously and devote a lot of time to worship.

    So I asked him whether it was a good or bad thing in his eyes and he said it was a good thing and that he didn’t see any of his non-Muslim friends taking their religion seriously at all – actually three of them challenged themselves to try to fast along with the group of Muslims.

    The reason I bring this up is because, this is a script that is found (at least in the Qur’an) and to a degree in the Bible as well. God blesses a people more and more – and the more He does, the further they turn their backs on Him; generally being ungrateful and claiming all of their blessings to be a result of their own deeds and attributes. You know, kind of like this:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/strength/#comment-2380634

    And this pattern continues until they have come to a point where they are a clear evidence against themselves. At this point He yanks the leash back that He has allowed to be slackened – very hard. The same story occurs again and again, just with different players and details – but the same results; people are replaced by others.

    In fact, we were given due notice too – that we don’t get a free pass:
    ” O you who believe, whoever of you should revert from his faith – Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him…” (5:54)

    If this narrative is all hogwash, well and good – no problems. If it’s true – time seems to be running out. Maybe Orthodox Christianity will finally make major inroads into the West.

    Either way, it’s quite interesting to observe…and learn from.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  335. @AP

    Why do you blame the Church

    Because the church is actively promoting the destruction of my nation. Not merely not caring about it (which could be justified as not caring about transient, earthly matters), but actively doing everything in its power to push for policies whose end result will be the destruction of Germany and any other European nation unfortunate enough to follow the “recommendations” of those demented prelates.

    on the contrary, the European Christians were expanding and colonizing other places. Christian Spain of the 16th-17th centuries

    Your enthusiasm for Spanish imperialism reminds me a lot of Muslims, and not in a positive way.

    The Church is universal, it will move on with those parts of humanity who have not chosen self-extinction

    Good luck with your Nigerians and Congolese then, I’m sure they’ll bring Catholic civilization to unprecedented heights.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @AP
  336. @Guillaume Tell

    40 years ago (initially to Canada), but yes.

    I’m an adult and can plant my own roots. He is now an old man and while in good health choosing to work less.

    But yes, my own background is one reason I’m so firmly against immigration. My German cousins (my aunt married a German) feel similarly, and in their case their German identity is a lot weaker than my American identity as their aunt failed to properly Germanize (speaks German with a Swedish accent, whereas my father’s English is flawless).

    I’m a Lutheran but to me it’s simply an ethnic marker. I never go to church other than weddings and funerals. I bash Catholics because that’s just what American Protestants do.

    Older American Protestants refer to romish papists as “mackerel snappers” because of the previous interdiction against eating fish on Fridays. This is also the reason the McDonald’s Filet o’ Fish was invented.

    I’ve heard whispers of a pink mafia at the conclave for a long time.

    The Protestant churches are nearly all in a very bad state. The mainline denominations embraced leftism in the mid-20th century (partly because of Rockefeller money which controlled the World Council of Churches), and the Evangelicals are doing so now other than on the matter of abortion and homo-sexualism. It has become a status symbol among Evangelicals to adopt blacks, which is disgraceful.

    The denominations which resist the poz tend to be full of double digit IQ dullards unforutantely. The Missour Synod Lutherans are one such example. They still faithfully follow Luther’s catechism and the Book of Concord.

    There’s also the Pentecostals who are so dumb they practice snake handling. Sarah Palin is a Pentecostal. They might be bad on immigration however owing to surging Pentecostalism south of the Rio Grande. Pentecostals in Brazil might hand the country over to Jair Bolsonaro, the Brazilian Trump.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  337. https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/10%20Critical%20years%20english%20version.pdf

    Anatoly what is your opinion on this PDF? Is this paper a good or plausible blueprint for demographic improvement in Russia?

    Also is this paper applicable to other Eastern European states like Ukraine and Belarus?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  338. @Talha

    So I asked him whether it was a good or bad thing in his eyes and he said it was a good thing and that he didn’t see any of his non-Muslim friends taking their religion seriously at all

    Such enthusiasm for the Cult of the Machine God could be much more positive than the Cult of the Demented Virgin Seekers.

    • Replies: @Talha
  339. DFH says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    According to E. M. Jones, and he is arguing this case very well in “the Jewish Revolutionary Spirit”,this proceeds of this grand-scale loot provided the real original capital at the root of the England’s economic take-off (and earlier industrial revolution that on the Continent where such massive looting of the monastics did not occur until much later).

    Unfortunately this is simply incorrect, like most of what EMJ says about Protestants/England.
    Firstly, the Reformation under Henry VIII had nothing to do with the Jewish (or any other) Revolutionary Spirit; Henry VIII was a very conservative man on every issue but the relationship between church and state and burnt Anabaptists. It’s quite possible that the split with Rome would have occurred even without the Reformation.

    Secondly, the Dissolution of the Monasteries didn’t provide the capital for the Industrial Revolution. I don’t even know why anyone would think this. The Crown raised £150,000, which was in the grand scheme of things fairly trivial and eaten up in a couple of campaigns. The capital for the Industrial Revolution came from international trade, which didn’t really get going until at least a century later, and doesn’t have any obvious connection to the Dissolution. Something similar happened in Scandinavia, without the Industrial Revolution happening there (in fact the second country to industrialise was very Catholic Belgium).

  340. Dmitry says:
    @Gerard2

    and for a guy he pretends to be your average dumb,boorish, typical, “Go America” American idiot……….there must be something in the fact that two of his wives are Slavic.

    It is true, he is anti-racist and obviously the opposite of a stereotype of an American redneck. (Equally, everything in his personal life seems very narcissistic.)

    I think I know a lot about Trump and American politics (I was following addictively the election).

    Trump might even be too far-liberal (if he was writing on here, he write more liberal ideas than all of us).

    E.g. His old girlfriends, not only Slavic, but also even a (half) black woman – who was supporting him.

  341. @DFH

    The capital for the Industrial Revolution came from international trade

    That sounds dangerously close to those arguments about industrialization being based on profits from the triangular trade which had Caribbean sugar plantations worked with slave labour as a main component.
    Is there actually consensus about that issue now? Obviously it would be politically preferable if those claims about slavery’s importance for early industrialization weren’t true.

    • Replies: @DFH
  342. The US border: Even a lot of Americans don’t understand what is going on, including the normally well informed American Left. I will explain all.

    Okay, 2 months ago the US started a 0 tolerance policy for illegal entry into the United States. This means that anybody apprehended crossing into the country illegally gets charged with a misdemeanor.

    A lot of these illegal crossers, however, are crossing with children, not always necessarily their own. US immigration law based on the court ruling of the Flores case makes it illegal to hold children in detention with their parents. So what the US is doing is putting the parents in jail and putting the children in holding facilities until the children are able to be put with relatives or into foster care.

    But this isn’t playing well. The media is saying “Trump is separating parents from their kids!” Now people like me say, “that’s awesome!” but few Americans hate immigrants as much as I do. So due to the backlash, Trump is signing an executive order, probably later this afternoon, that will keep parents and children together while the parents are awaiting prosecution.

    The problem with this is that it is flagrantly illegal. It brazenly violates Flores. The Left will file a suit within a day and I expect an emergency stay on the EO by the end of the week. So the possibilities are:

    1. Trump just ignores the stay. This has the possibility to create a Constitutional crisis which would probably lead to a civil war.

    2. Trump honors the stay in the short term but seeks and gets an immediate Supreme Court hearing of the case. The Supreme Court would almost certainly rule in Trump’s favor.

    3. Trump honors the stay but the SC refuses to here the case on an expedited basis. At this point Trump simply returns to separating the parents except now he has more credibility to say: “The law leaves me no choice.”

    Really interesting stuff.

  343. Dmitry says:
    @DFH

    Secondly, the Dissolution of the Monasteries didn’t provide the capital for the Industrial Revolution. I don’t even know why anyone would think this. The Crown raised £150,000, which was in the grand scheme of things fairly trivial and eaten up in a couple of campaigns

    Have you visited Cambridge University?

    I’m not an expert, but it was explained to me how in Trinity College in Cambridge University (later home of Isaac Newton) – the money confiscated from the Monasteries and Church was used to finance the college.

    • Replies: @DFH
  344. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    AP’s argument was that Christianity should be encouraged because it will raise birth-rates, which will push out migrants.

    It’s an interesting view – but obviously seems kind of blasphemy from a god-fearing perspective.

    Basically a secular viewpoint on why religion is useful.

    But from the non-secular viewpoint, you are supposed to believe in religion because it saves your soul. (a god would unlikely be happy if you are supporting it for other motives).

    -

    As for AP’s theory itself. It is interesting and I didn’t see anyone write it like that before. Of course, it is not a necessary condition for having a rational immigration policy (Japan has low birthrates, highly secular, and they don’t have any problem with immigration levels to a low level).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @AP
  345. DFH says:
    @Dmitry

    I’m not an expert, but it was explained to me how in Trinity College in Cambridge University (later home of Isaac Newton) – the money confiscated from the Monasteries and Church was used to finance the college.

    That was actually quite common even before the Dissolution. For instance both St. John’s, Cambridge and Corpus, Oxford were founded (by very pious men) from nunneries that were dissolved due to poor behaviour.
    In any case, there were plenty of Oxbridge colleges apart from the Dissolution, and the money that was invested into educational foundations probably didn’t make up for taking away the schools the monasteries were providing (although this is a very controversial topic and I haven’t read too much about it).

  346. DFH says:
    @German_reader

    Is there actually consensus about that issue now?

    I have looked into this question before (although only briefly) and have been able to find very little about it, so I assume working out who financed what is quite difficult. It wouldn’t surprise me if a decent amount of the money came from the slave trade or related industries, especially given the proximity of Liverpool to the industrial heartland. Still, I don’t think there is any reason to suppose that the Industrial Revolution wouldn’t have happened without slavery. Sugar made up about a quarter of colonial imports, but even without it, Britain would still have been the most financially advanced trading nation.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  347. @Dmitry

    AP’s argument was that Christianity should be encouraged because it will raise birth-rates,

    It’s a retarded argument imo. There’s no point to calling for a breeding contest when one has open borders and mass immigration (which probably have the effect of depressing birth rates among the native population), the solution has to be to close the borders and end mass immigration – and that’s exactly what the Catholic church regards as uncharitable and wants to prevent.
    I also don’t even understand this natalist fetish among Catholics, as far as I can tell it doesn’t have any basis in the New Testament (where marriage was a concession to those too weak for a completely celibate life).

    It’s an interesting view – but obviously seems kind of blasphemy from a god-fearing perspective.

    I agree, but a lot of religious people argue like that. I take it as an implicit admission that they know the core doctrines of their faith aren’t terribly convincing on their own merit.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @LatW
    , @Anon 2
  348. Talha says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Such enthusiasm for the Cult of the Machine God

    Yes indeed – I’d love to see if the machine-borg-singularity-god (MBSG) has followers ready to give up food and drink for it and serenade it in the middle of the night:
    “Their limbs forsake their beds of sleep, to cry unto their Lord in fear and hope: and they spend (in charity) out of the sustenance which We have bestowed on them.” (32:16)

    “Men whom neither merchandise nor selling diverts from the remembrance of God and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of alms; they fear a day in which the hearts and eyes shall convulse.” (24:37)

    If the MBSG can manage to win their hearts and devotion then its victory is reassured…and men like this will be a relic of the barbaric past:

    Cult of the Demented Virgin Seekers

    Don’t worry – mop up operations against Daesh proceed as I type.

    My son is taking intro class into robotics right now.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  349. @DFH

    Still, I don’t think there is any reason to suppose that the Industrial Revolution wouldn’t have happened without slavery

    There’s a line of argument that claims just that though, if I understand correctly this was the argument advanced by Eric Williams in his influential Capitalism and slavery already back in 1944, and it’s of course popular with black grievance-mongers (“No space ship without slave ship”).
    I’ve never looked into the issue in detail, but from my limited reading (e.g. the relevant chapters in the Oxford History of the British empire from the late 1990s) I got the impression it was still a somewhat controversial issue.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  350. @Talha

    Yes indeed – I’d love to see if the machine-borg-singularity-god (MBSG) has followers ready to give up food and drink for it

    Clearly, you have never met hackers.

    Can’t say it does much for their grooming or cleanliness habits.

    • Replies: @Talha
  351. Talha says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I have, they don’t give up food and drink; empty boxes of pizza and empty can of soda are their sacraments.

    But I don’t mind people devoting themselves to gods of their own designs – as I stated we are simply observing; the bifurcation of the human race along these lines will make it things much more clear in the long run so people can choose priorities and pick sides (the human and the post-human):

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  352. The US border: Even a lot of Americans don’t understand what is going on, including the normally well informed American Left. I will explain all. adfadfadsf

    Okay, 2 months ago the US started a 0 tolerance policy for illegal entry into the United States. This means that anybody apprehended crossing into the country illegally gets charged with a misdemeanor.

    A lot of these illegal crossers, however, are crossing with children, not always necessarily their own. US immigration law based on the court ruling of the Flores case makes it illegal to hold children in detention with their parents. So what the US is doing is putting the parents in jail and putting the children in holding facilities until the children are able to be put with relatives or into foster care.

    But this isn’t playing well. The media is saying “Trump is separating parents from their kids!” Now people like me say, “that’s awesome!” but few Americans hate immigrants as much as I do. So due to the backlash, Trump is signing an executive order, probably later this afternoon, that will keep parents and children together while the parents are awaiting prosecution.

    The problem with this is that it is flagrantly illegal. It brazenly violates Flores. The Left will file a suit within a day and I expect an emergency stay on the EO by the end of the week. So the possibilities are:

    1. Trump just ignores the stay. This has the possibility to create a Constitutional crisis which would probably lead to a civil war.

    2. Trump honors the stay in the short term but seeks and gets an immediate Supreme Court hearing of the case. The Supreme Court would almost certainly rule in Trump’s favor.

    3. Trump honors the stay but the SC refuses to here the case on an expedited basis. At this point Trump simply returns to separating the parents except now he has more credibility to say: “The law leaves me no choice.”

    Really interesting stuff.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  353. @Greasy William

    1. Trump just ignores the stay. This has the possibility to create a Constitutional crisis which would probably lead to a civil war.

    I keep hoping this will happen. The black-robed terrorists of the bench shouldn’t be allowed to rule over us any longer.

    The ideal thing would be for a coup d’etat and Trump to rule as a dictator, but no way a Baby Boomer will do that.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  354. @Thorfinnsson

    Isn’t that kind of what Andrew Jackson did? Reminds me of all those comparisons of Trump with Jackson before the election (which haven’t really been justified so far imo).

  355. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    It’s a retarded argument imo. There’s no point to calling for a breeding contest when one has open borders and mass immigration (which probably have the effect of depressing birth rates among the native population),

    The idea that growing the population is so important – from quality of life perspective of individual citizens (opposed to the interests of the rulers who might want larger populations), it is only true in terms of the dependency ratio within an aging population.

    Growing dependency ratio issues can be solved by raising retirement/pension ages.

    the solution has to be to close the borders and end mass immigration –

    Rational immigration policy is quite simple and would nothing exciting for a rich country to decide this (it is the nature of rich countries to be flooded by people from poor countries) – countries like Japan are closing the gates without drama, and do not have these problems of flooding of random demographics from poor countries.

    the solution has to be to close the borders and end mass immigration – and that’s exactly what the Catholic church regards as uncharitable and wants to prevent.

    They are following the kind of things Jesus has said. In some way they are more authentic/religious than an AP position.

    If you authentically believe in these ideas, you would have an ideology similar to a John Lennon in the song “Imagine” surely:

    “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3%3A28&version=NIV

    I also don’t even understand this natalist fetish among Catholics, as far as I can tell it doesn’t have any basis in the New Testament (where marriage was a concession to those too weak for a completely celibate life).

    This is with textual support, in Book of Genesis (Old Testament):

    “God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth”

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A28&version=KJV

  356. @German_reader

    Yes, that is exactly what Old Hickory did.

    “Justice Marshall has his decision, now let him enforce it.”

    And Trump just so happens to have a portrait of Old Hickory hanging in the Oval Office, which he ordered hung.

    He also visited Old Hickory’s tomb and saluted.

    Pat Buchanan has been pushing this angle for years. Congress also has the power to exempt legislation from judicial review, which was used to protect the trans-Alaska pipeline from ecoterrorist lawfare.

  357. @German_reader

    The comparisons are fairly apt, I think. Like Jackson, Trump appears to lack a consistent philosophy but he has extremely good instincts and loves to fight. In a world of soylent Trudeaus, its hard not to find that admirable.

  358. @Dmitry

    The idea that growing the population is so important

    It should be kept as stable as possible though, or at least a managed decline to a lower level that could perhaps be stabilized with more family-friendly policies.
    Globally the big problem is overpopulation of course and unchecked demographic growth in Africa and parts of the Islamic world…good luck winning a breeding contest against the people of Niger.

    ” There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

    I don’t see why that should mean agitation in favour of open borders though…logically the “male and female” part would also imply that Christians would have to support transgenderism then. Also notice the “in Christ” part which should at least exclude Muslims and other non-Christians.
    The big problem imo is that the kind of ethics in the Sermon on the mount and other New Testament texts may have made sense for a marginal Jewish cult believing the end of the world to be near. They are absolutely disastrous though when taken as a guideline for organizing the policy of a polity (which is why they were ignored to a large extent by Christendom’s rulers which invited charges of hypocrisy…but that’s far preferable to the self-destructive madness of today).

    This is from Book of Genesis (Old Testament):

    There’s nothing in the New Testament though that would indicate having children is a meritorious act, in fact there are plenty of statements which could be read as anti-”family values” in the conventionally understood sense.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  359. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    It’s an interesting view – but obviously seems kind of blasphemy from a god-fearing perspective.

    Basically a secular viewpoint on why religion is useful.

    I am communicating with secular people so what other viewpoint should I use in that context?

    Look at what Europeans did, how they viewed themselves and how they treated others when they were actually deeply Christians? What have they done to themselves as post-Christians?

  360. @Dmitry

    Like I said elsewhere, possibly even in this thread, I don’t like trying to interpret the proper standards of orthodoxy of a faith I don’t practice.

    But I am a former Christian and I have read all of the gospels in addition to various writings of the early Church fathers and I truly believe that Jesus would have said to send these little shits back to the sewers that they come from. He probably wouldn’t have hated them, but he wouldn’t have let them in either.

    Christianity is not pro immigrant. In fact, Christianity is a very reactionary, intolerant, sexist, homophobic and racist religion… and that’s awesome!

    • Replies: @German_reader
  361. https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/20/politics/kirstjen-nielsen-mexican-restaurant-protest/index.html

    The Enemy is completely unhinged and demented.

    Funny thing is that Kirstjen Nielsen is very weak on immigration, and in general. She nearly resigned because President Trump said mean words to her about her mailing it in on the border.

    I don’t think she can stand the heat. If we’re lucky she resigns and gets replaced by Kris Kobach.

    The Enemy is effeminate and strikes me as unlikely to take up arms (which they hate and fear and consider to be demonic talismans), but realistically how far away are we from civil war now? Civil war breaking out with Trump as our leader would certainly be excellent timing.

    Of course the cuckservative do-nothing GOP Congress can’t take the heat either. Even now, two years after Trump demonstrated the press can be defeated, they’re still scared of them.

    https://archive.fo/fpTlT

    There will likely be a TON of leaks coming out of the just-concluded meeting between President Trump and Republicans in Congress. The main reason is this: Donald Trump let them have it with both barrels. Apparently, it was Trump unleashed like the D.C. Swamp hadn’t yet seen.

    “You really want to try and win your election in November without me? I don’t think so.”

    “I’m following the law as it’s written. If you don’t like the law then Congress needs to change it. It’s simple. Simple. I’m with you but if you don’t like it you need to do something about it…It looks bad. Sure. Really bad. If you want to change that then change the law. DO SOMETHING. You people have to change it. That’s how it has to be done.”

    “We all know what it is. It’s fake. Fake news. CNN…it’s fake. The pictures…that was Obama’s, during his administration, not mine. You can’t let it scare you. That’s what they want. That’s why they do it. This law, you just need to change it if you don’t like it. And that’s the way it is. I’m not here to save you. I’m here to let you know I’ll support you but you have to do something. Or not. But if you don’t do something don’t come crying to me about it okay? Right?”

  362. @Greasy William

    and I truly believe that Jesus would have said to send these little shits back to the sewers that they come from.

    That’s interesting, but could you give some scriptural support for that view? If it’s convincing, it could actually be useful.
    EDIT: If I understand correctly, Sessions has already adduced Romans 13:1 (all authority from God) to shut up critics of Trump’s policy…maybe not a bad idea.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @Dmitry
  363. AP says:
    @German_reader

    Your enthusiasm for Spanish imperialism reminds me a lot of Muslims, and not in a positive way.

    Muslims ruined and destroyed better civilizations. Spaniards uplifted inferior ones. If you don’t see the difference your anti-Christian bigotry is strong, indeed. The ones who indoctrinated you have done a great job.

    In the New World the Spaniards replaced temples devoted to human sacrifice with beautiful baroque cathedrals, like this one, using the same bricks:

    Utu posted beautiful baroque music made by Indians in Paraguay, under Jesuit teachers.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @German_reader
    , @Talha
  364. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    They are following the kind of things Jesus has said. In some way they are more authentic/religious than an AP position.

    If you authentically believe in these ideas, you would have an ideology similar to a John Lennon in the song “Imagine” surely:

    “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

    This – above a quote from Saint Paul.

    Although the idea historical Jesus was not a liberal with socialist-egalitarian direction…

    “If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.”

    “Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.”

    “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”

    -

    And if you believe texts like below, how would you not support inviting people from poorer countries (with risk of being in hell, if you do not)?

    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A41-46&version=NIV

    • Replies: @DFH
  365. @German_reader

    I can’t right now but hopefully tonight.

  366. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    That’s interesting, but could you give some scriptural support for that view? If it’s convincing, it could actually be useful.

    Bible is writing the complete opposite – this almost reads directly relevant to the discussion of how to respond to poor people on your door (and that is the whole problem – economic migrants who want to be food, clothes, etc).

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A41-46&version=NIV

    • Replies: @Talha
  367. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Spaniards uplifted inferior ones

    Raped and murdered quite a lot in Latin America. (Sadly unchristian – the history of the Conquistadors).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples#Spanish_colonization_of_the_Americas

    Also for cultural diversity – I would prefer if e.g. Aztecs were still around (rather than everything blandly globalized).

    • Replies: @AP
  368. DFH says:
    @Dmitry

    Matthew 25 is about Christian missionaries.

  369. @AP

    Spaniards uplifted inferior ones

    They also killed and enslaved lots of people and reduced the indigenous populations to a marginalized and despised underclass in their own homelands.
    Now I’m not going to defend human sacrifice or other dubious practices of pre-Colombian native cultures, but somehow I wonder if there shouldn’t have been a better way for interactions with the natives than what actually happened.
    Probably a pointless debate though, you’re going to defend your team no matter what, and anybody who disagrees is a brainwashed Christophobe. The strongly religious are no different from the most extreme nationalists, their own side can never be wrong.

    • Agree: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @DFH
    , @AP
  370. Talha says:
    @Dmitry

    Yeah – there’s little doubt that the charitable and humanitarian aspect of Christianity is what made it one of the great world’s faiths and would eventually lead down the path to understanding the eminence of the rights of the individual in European thought. I guess some people like the charitable aspect, but as long as it’s just for people that are like them.

    Like Greasy, I’m not going to claim to know the Orthodoxy for a religion that is not mine, but something tells me that normative belief and practice is defined by Christian theologians that have studied this thing for life (a bit like our ulema). Just like I would assume pathologists understand the parameters of their field better than anyone else. So are groups of churches or coalitions of theologians putting out their official stances on these issues?

    If Christianity can be stood up as an intolerant and racist religion by someone who wants to interpret it that way (I assume this means Nazis were then Christianity-certified? which seems weird, but not my call.), how do you stop someone from interpreting the poz through it? It’s just your opinion against their’s – I guess it just becomes a numbers game. Which would make Christianity fairly flexible in being practically anything anyone wants at anytime.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  371. Talha says:
    @AP

    Muslims ruined and destroyed better civilizations. Spaniards uplifted inferior ones.

    This is opinion posited as fact – but thanks for your opinions.

    Peace.

    • Agree: Greasy William
    • Replies: @AP
  372. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    They also killed and enslaved lots of people and reduced the indigenous populations to a marginalized and despised underclass in their own homelands.
    Now I’m not going to defend human sacrifice or other dubious practices of pre-Colombian native cultures, but somehow I wonder if there shouldn’t have been a better way for interactions with the natives than what actually happened.
    Probably a pointless debate though, you’re going to defend your team no matter what, and anybody who disagrees is a brainwashed Christophobe. The strongly religious are no different from the most extreme nationalists, their own side can never be wrong.

    It would have been much better if the quite strange and interesting South American nationalities and cultures had not been genocided by some equally primitive (and more culturally-uninteresting) peasants from Spain (even if it is historically quite unlikely that it would not have happened).

    Think about cultures like Japan (that had managed to survive without genocided), or even more primitive ones like Nepal or Thailand.

    It a benefit for the world that their cultures survived – this is the real cultural diversity (not the amalgamation of cultures into a single country that people use by concept “cultural diversity”), and pre-Columbian civilization included very interesting cultures (whether or not conforms to modern views of “human rights” even less than the conquistadors who ended it).

    The cultural diversity – of separate cultures in separate countries – is something desirable.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  373. DFH says:
    @German_reader

    The Church moderated the treatment of the Indians though.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @German_reader
  374. @Dmitry

    It a benefit for the world that there is such cultural diversity, and pre-Columbian civilization was a very interesting culture

    Well, it wasn’t a uniform culture, rather many various cultures, at different levels of development. Much of it was certainly very weird and unattractive from a European point of view, but who knows how it would have developed if not subjected to foreign domination? At least the Mayas had even developed writing on their own, which is an impressive achievement.
    Obviously we’ll never know what could have been, but I don’t think one should regard the Spanish conquest as an unmitigated good.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  375. @DFH

    True, I don’t want deny that, I know about Las Casas and all that. But AP writes as if the Spanish conquest was beneficial for everyone and as if all the destruction caused by it didn’t matter anyway because souls were saved (and nice cathedrals built), and that seems rather one-sided to me.

  376. Dmitry says:

    Well, it wasn’t a uniform culture, rather many various cultures, at different levels of development. Much of it was certainly very weird and unattractive from a European point of view, but who knows how it would have developed if not subjected to foreign domination? At least the Mayas had even developed writing on their own, which is an impressive achievement.
    Obviously we’ll never know what could have been, but I don’t think one should regard the Spanish conquest as an unmitigated good.

    These isolated, strange and fascinating civilizations were a lot more interesting – from viewpoint of any civilized man who would wish they had been preserved and separated, and had perhaps slowly adapted for survival – than the boring, homogenated, quasi-Spanish mess resulted after the conquest, and only slowly started to develop again anything interesting.

  377. Dmitry says:
    @Talha

    Jesus is a noble and fascinating historical figure – and there is a lot of textual evidence showing the emotions and concepts that he (actual historical Middle Eastern, desert mystic person) was in the direction of.

    How later people interpret a person’s legacy is another topic, and can go in a different direction.

    E.g. perhaps future generations could re-interpret John Lennon as a supporter of e.g. Orthodox Islamic theology, or the Mormon worldview. But all you would have to do to find again John Lennon’s actual texts and songs, and clear to anyone with a brain that these texts and quotes are very inconsistent with the direction of such views, regardless of views fans later of his. And as a result, more authentic adherents of Lennon would re-orient from the songs themselves.

  378. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    At least the Mayas had even developed writing on their own, which is an impressive achievement.

    And Aztecs had an impressive capital city.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  379. @Talha

    I have, they don’t give up food and drink; empty boxes of pizza and empty can of soda are their sacraments.

    After modafinil, there isn’t much interest in food, let alone the taste of food. Not that I would know anything about this, and I’ve never had a 72 hour coding session either.

    • Replies: @Talha
  380. LatW says:
    @German_reader

    Europe will not get re-Christianized in the foreseeable future. And you’re absolutely right that immigration can be stopped with secular means – it’s just a matter of political will (consensus). Same with birthrates – they can be raised to decent levels. There are at least two secular examples of this – the 1980s Soviet Union and the Nordic countries (and Ireland) of today. I’m not going to lionize the Soviet system (it obviously lacked some fundamental things), but the truth is there was relative stability and a good daycare system (the prohibition probably contributed, too) – and it really was the will and the effort of the people themselves (women actually had it tougher with domestic chores back then but they still had more kids, and, even though society was largely secular (or rather – outwardly secular, but with conservative habits and lifestyle – people married and had kids early (although some divorced later and had second marriages), there was still intergenerational solidarity and a community (which still to some extent exists in the EE, but no longer in the West), one thing that might have helped was that they would let the man come home from the army if his wife had the second child – this might have encouraged the rates to rise but I’m speculating here). In Nordic countries, too, they have relatively high TFRs within the native population (combination of stability and a sex ratio that favors women). The TFR may not be entirely stable and will fluctuate but this shows that it’s possible to come close to 2.

    The truth that nobody talks about is that European women want children. There’s a lot of talk and chastising about women postponing, but there is absolute silence about involuntary childlessness (or the yearning for the second or third child). The truth is that most women want children and their favorite number is 2. There are probably more women who want a second (or first) child than there are women who do not want kids at all. I can’t speak for German women, but I definitely know that Eastern European and British women want more children.

    And, yes, the problem is relationship instability, and the Church could help here (in fact, our churches are already providing consulting to young couples) but it won’t be the decisive factor. The decisive factor is the relationship dynamics (men’s employment, economic stability, perceived future stability, sex ratios, attitudes towards motherhood / parenthood, and other similar socio-dynamic factors).

    I respect our Catholic church (ours is still largely traditional even though we, too, had people who in 2014 were saying things like “Jesus is coming to us in the guise of refugees”, etc, and, yes, it feels “interesting” when your childhood friend or former classmate who lived their whole life in an intact white society and benefited from it greatly all of a sudden says something like that – I understand their religious feelings from the emotional standpoint, but can we let their religious feelings run our society and the society where our children will live?? That’s simply insane!), although I’m not Christian myself. I deeply respect both the Lutheran and Catholic Archbishops (I don’t have exposure to the Orthodox church but I remember talking once to their Patriarch about how abortion is bad and we had a great conversation). They should definitely be given status and platform whenever they wish to share anything with the society. When new Archbishops come who are no longer conservative and who change the tune to “inclusive”, then, of course, they should leave the stage (that is no longer Christianity and doesn’t deserve a public platform – it is a sect or an NGO at best and they are on their own then). However, most Europeans are not going to revert to Christianity. Christianity will simply exist as a part of our society. In Eastern Europe it is not yet hostile to our interests (although some fractures are already appearing between traditional and liberal (“inclusive”)). Btw, it’s totally possible to be secular and dislike and avoid abortion at the same time (that’s how most people are at least in my circles). The nuclear family should always be the ideal. But let’s be realistic – there will always be serial monogamy, too. These relationships, with the right approach, can still produce enough offspring.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Mitleser
  381. Dmitry says:
    @Mitleser

    Imagine if they had preserved it, and had not been destroyed by bandits looking for gold.

    And even more if a civilization that created it still existed and preserved their strange and unique religions and languages.

    It would be (for good or bad, and even with a lot of modernization) one of the world’s more popular tourist attractions.

    Modern colonized Mexico City by comparison (appears as a kind of poorer version of Spain, with no unique languages, strange religions or special civilization that is not found in many other cities across the region).

  382. Talha says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    In UCLA there were plenty of these kinds of guys (I also attended a couple of classes with this guy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_Kalanick), didn’t think much of him then – he didn’t seem too serious. I had to pull some late night stuff with a friend a few times to finish up coding on a project or final – but never 72 hours.

    Again, if the devotees of the MBSG want to sacrifice like we do, I’m all for it. It’d be great to have some serious competition. Unfortunately Christians seem to have mostly given up on a holistic, immersive religious life – it seems the women are still clinging on (as they always do, being more spiritual creatures than men):

    Of course, I see groups of Mormons and Orthodox Jews around and they seem serious (I remember the 7th Day Adventists were too, can’t forget some patches of Catholics) and I always get impressed by people that sacrifice for some higher purpose or goal, even if I don’t agree with it.

    I wonder if the MBSG will still find use for its devotees after coming online? I guess we’ll find out…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  383. @LatW

    Interesting comment, I agree with many of your points.

    but the truth is there was relative stability and a good daycare system

    Was like that in East Germany as well. Not that I want the GDR back, but that’s something they were more successful with than the west (where the rotten Christian Democrats never cared much about family policy apart from conservative platitudes, then suddenly decided to import lots of foreigners as a “solution” to our demographic problems).

    The truth that nobody talks about is that European women want children.

    I agree, I see it in my limited circle of acquaintances as well, but economic costs are an issue (obviously even more so in countries like Italy, Spain, Greece with their catastrophic youth unemployment). It’s hardly just an issue of secular hedonists not wanting to reproduce because it would ruin their fun.

    However, most Europeans are not going to revert to Christianity. Christianity will simply exist as a part of our society.

    imo the Church has a choice, if it accepts certain limits it can still have a respected place in society and may eventually even gain converts again; at least Christianity would remain part of the cultural landscape. But if the church sees its mission as pushing utopian projects of mass immigration and regards secular Europeans like me as enemies (maybe to be crushed by an Islamic-Christian alliance of the pious?), there should be no surprise if the favor is returned and Christianity permanently discredited, given the predictably disastrous consequences of the open borders project.

    Btw, it’s totally possible to be secular and dislike and avoid abortion at the same time

    I certainly reject abortion as a kind of contraception after the fact, imo that is indeed a serious issue. The catholic position is too absolutist for me though.

    • Replies: @LatW
  384. Mitleser says:
    @LatW

    We must learn from Best Korea!

    “I am happy to have gone,” Salvini told Italian daily Corriere della Sera. “I saw a splendid sense of community. Many children playing in the streets and not not on play stations. A great respect for older people. Things that no longer exist in Italy.”

    Salvini travelled to North Korea with another Italian politician, Antonio Razzi, a senator in Silvio Berlusconi’s centre-right Forza Italia party. He told Il Fatto Quotidiano last year that North Korea reminded him of Switzerland, praising people’s punctuality and their “very, very clean” streets.

    While the Northern League is also known for its xenophobic rhetoric, it appears Salvini has a lot of time for the North Korean way of doing things. He said the country operated according to “another model which I do not demonise”. “There, the state provides everything: school, housing, work,” he said. “The American lifestyle is not the only one that exists in the world.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/03/north-korea-italy-northern-league

    No, seriously.
    Their TFR is almost twice as high as in the South.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @LatW
    , @Hyperborean
  385. @Thorfinnsson

    The sexual revolution has been a disaster

    So can we safely assume that, consistent with your views, you are an exemplar of chastity?

  386. DFH says:
    @Mitleser

    Their TFR is almost twice as high as in the South.

    A truly staggering 1.97 (lower than Ireland’s)

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @for-the-record
  387. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Do you believe anti-Russian propaganda as fervently as you believe anti-Spanish propaganda?

    Also for cultural diversity – I would prefer if e.g. Aztecs were still around

    Yes, who cares about people being live-sacrificed. Diversity is more important. Makes for interestimg documentaries to entertain you.

  388. AP says:
    @Talha

    I mean you no personal offense btw – you strike me as a very decent person.

    • Replies: @Talha
  389. Mitleser says:
    @Talha

    I wonder if the MBSG will still find use for its devotees after coming online?

    Of course, all humans must be liberated.

    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  390. @AP

    Do you believe anti-Russian propaganda as fervently as you believe anti-Spanish propaganda?

    It’s not propaganda that the Spanish conquest led to the natives of various Caribbean islands being largely wiped out within just a few decades (I know some of their DNA persists in present inhabitants, but as an identifiable group they were largely destroyed). Nor is it propaganda that the Spanish employed all manner of treachery (just remember what Pizarro did) and terror tactics, and caused massive carnage. Just the conquest of Tenochtitlan probably killed tens of thousands. They also introduced systems of forced labour that permanently subjected much of the native population.
    Obviously human sacrifice and all that is very bad from our perspective, but as far as I know the Aztecs were exceptional in the prevalence of such practices. And in all probability, the Spanish conquest would have happened even without that anyway.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @AP
  391. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    You can admit you wrote a stupid post, supporting the destruction of ancient temples of unique civilizations, because they used the same bricks to build a boring church over the conquered peoples town.

    It’s not a big deal – I sometimes write a lot of stupid things as well, and will admit so if you want to show me stupid shit I write.

    I don’t think any civilized person would support this – I know it is hated by all the Spanish historians and commentators themselves.

    Even the Muslims when they conquered Constantinople – and turned Hagia Sophia into a Mosque, at least have not destroyed the unique original structure and built some boring Muslim construction on top.

    You honestly support going to another country, destroying the people’s temple, and building some boring structure of a totally foreign culture (from a different continent) on top?

    As for “anti-Spanish propaganda” – you must not understand Spanish, because Spanish documentaries and texts on this (I know because I watched Spanish television history documentaries many times in order to learn the language) are very sad about what has happened – and at ongoing tragedy of the Latin American continent in subsequent times. I first learn about this topic from watching Spanish documentaries and reading a history of Spain, in Spanish.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  392. Mitleser says:
    @DFH

    Higher than Ireland’s.

    Births: 62,053 (-2.9%)
    Deaths: 30,484 (+0.3%)
    Balance: 31,569 (-5.8%)

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=148897411&postcount=6361

    It seems like Irish fertility dropped to a new record low in 2017, the TFR of 1.81 in 2016 being the previous record low. I wonder what is going on in Ireland, like Finland fertility has fallen massively since 2009, down by around 15% over the 2009-2017 period.

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=148897945&postcount=6362

  393. @Mitleser

    Praise the Machine God and His Eternal Servant that is the Omnimessiah.

  394. AP says:
    @German_reader

    They also killed and enslaved lots of people and reduced the indigenous populations to a marginalized and despised underclass in their own homelands.

    They treated them better than they treated each other. Obviously the Spaniards who conquered the New World weren’t saints. Neither were the Allies who defeated Nazism. Would Dimitri say it’s a shame that for the sake of political global diversity Nazism wasn’t retained in the world? Maybe give them a small chunk of Poland or Russia so they could keep doing their thing?

    Bottom line is that the Aztec culture was evil, practicing human sacrifice on a large scale, and no more complex than perhaps the most ancient and primitive Mesopotamian cultures – light years from Greece, or Rome. Low estimate of sacrificial victims was 20,000 per year. Or 2 million every 100 years. Modern decadents such as Dimitri think it’s a shame this culture wasn’t kept going because its ongoing existence made the world more diverse and interesting. Those “nasty” 16th century Christians were utterly horrified by what they saw and snuffed it out. They built beautiful cathedrals, taught the Indians how to read and write and how to make beautiful baroque music. How banal, compared to demon-worship and ripping beating hearts out of people, or drowning children in wells, or wearing skins made from humans.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @German_reader
  395. @DFH

    A truly staggering 1.97 (lower than Ireland’s)

    As far as I am aware, the TFR in Ireland in 2017 was also 1.97. And taking into account that approximately 1/4 of all Irish births are to non-Irish mothers, the TFR of ethnic Irish women must be significantly lower (in the range of 1.6-1.7, I would imagine).

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  396. Talha says:
    @AP

    No problem, AP – none taken.

    Peace.

  397. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    I saw this documentary.

    It’s from the Spanish state television channel.

    I guess AP it is anti-Spanish propaganda.

    It is explained clearly that they were only there for gold, that they betrayed many times the Aztecs, and massacred men, women, elderly, and children, multiple times.

    And in the end -from 49:00 – what happened to the city.

    In conclusion, at
    At 51:17 –

    It is very sad (in a poetic way with the word “captive/captivating”)- it says that “over the remains of the city captured city, they raised a new city that was less captivating”.

  398. Mitleser says:
    @for-the-record

    It was below 1,9 in 2017 and 2016.

    Fertility

    The total period fertility rate, TPFR is derived from the age specific fertility rates in the current year. It represents the projected number of children a woman would have if she experienced current age specific fertility rates while progressing from age 15-49 years. A value of 2.1 is generally considered to be the level at which the population would replace itself in the long run, ignoring migration.

    In 2017 the TPFR for Ireland was 1.8 which is below replacement level. See table 2.

    https://cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-vsys/vitalstatisticsyearlysummary2017/

  399. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Bottom line is that the Aztec culture was evil, practicing human sacrifice on a large scale, and no more complex than perhaps the most ancient and primitive Mesopotamian cultures – light years from Greece, or Rome. Low estimate of sacrificial victims was 20,000 per year. Or 2 million every 100 years. Modern decadents such as Dimitri think it’s a shame this culture wasn’t kept going because its ongoing existence made the world more diverse and interesting. Those “nasty” 16th century Christians were utterly horrified by what they saw and snuffed it out. They built beautiful cathedrals, taught the Indians how to read and write and how to make beautiful baroque music. How banal, compared to demon-worship and ripping beating hearts out of people, or drowning children in wells, or wearing skins made from humans.

    Normally you sound civilized and sensible. But you have gone a little crazy with this topic – everything above sounds like something that could be written by an radical Islamist in relation the West, and the opposite of a view of an educated or civilized.

    I’m sure you can see yourself with this stuff about conquering these people because of “demon worship”. Maybe Muslims can conquer New York (and rape your family, etc) on the same basis?

    Also your claims have no relation to historical reality, or motive of conquistadors, or what is described in the history books written by Spanish professionals who study this topic, and write histories of Spain that are sold in the bookshops in central Madrid, where you can see them .

    I don’t know if I should translate some segments from the documentary posted above on this subject made by Spanish state television.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @AP
  400. @Dmitry

    You act like you are some impartial voice on this topic even though you basically admitted that you think that Mexico should conquer the US. You’ve never said what you wanted done with white Americans but presumably you would have them exterminated to make living space for your precious Latrino master race.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @German_reader
  401. Anon 2 says:
    @German_reader

    Between religion and atheism there is a third path (in fact, many paths) that millions
    in the West are now pursuing. As with many things in this area, the rigorous beginnings
    go back to no less than William James but the best person to read who is closer
    to our time is Jean Gebser (1905-73) who in many ways is a Nietzschean figure.
    Gebser was born in Poznań into a family of germanified Polish nobility (something
    that Nietzsche claimed, probably mistakenly, but it’s still interesting how much he
    wanted to be Polish). Gebser’s great work, Ursprung und Gegenwart (1950), was
    finally translated into English as The Ever-Present Origin. I think it deserves to
    be as well known as Spengler’s Decline of the West, although Gebser’s view of the
    evolution of human consciousness is much more optimistic.

    If you don’t feel like reading Gebser, then read some of the people whom
    he influenced and who developed transpersonal theory guided by his
    ideas, such as Ken Wilber and Michael Washburn. In fact, probably the best
    introduction is the latter’s The Ego and the Dynamic Ground (2nd ed.).

    For me personally, as someone who was active in the Human Potential
    Movement of the ’70s and ’80′s (which later morphed into transhumanism)
    (let’s just say the non-psychedelic part, although I’m open to it under strictly
    controlled conditions) there were at least 3 shifts in consciousness over the
    years:

    1., Stewart Brand’s Whole Earth Catalog, published in many editions between
    1968 and 1972 whose opening page read, “We are as gods and might as well
    get good at it.” In other words, we are gods in training;

    2. Rejection of the Jewish (or Hebrew, to be correct) view that this Universe
    was created by God. This view, of course, later entered Christianity and Islam.
    There is no question that the Universe was created by something with divine
    power, some sort of rationality imbedded in the laws of nature, but the existence
    of evil and suffering militate against the view of the creator as omnipotent
    and omniscient. In simple cosmological models the total energy of the Universe
    is zero. Hence the Universe started ex nihilo and is still nothing, perhaps some
    sort of virtual reality that modern physics is investigating;

    3. Adoption of the view that (on some deep level) “You create your own reality,”
    which became well-known starting in the 1970s with the growing popularity
    of the Seth materials. Clearly this must happen on a deep unconscious level,
    otherwise everyone would be a millionaire and (at least for guys) drowning in
    female pulchritude lol.

  402. @Thorfinnsson

    40 years ago (initially to Canada), but yes.

    We must be about the same age.

    I’m an adult and can plant my own roots. He is now an old man and while in good health choosing to work less. But yes, my own background is one reason I’m so firmly against immigration.

    Another common point

    I’m a Lutheran but to me it’s simply an ethnic marker. I never go to church other than weddings and funerals. I bash Catholics because that’s just what American Protestants do.

    I was born a (Roman) Catholic and I am appalled by what the Roman Church has become. It’s not even a mockery. I bash the pope and his homo friends on a routine basis.

    Older American Protestants refer to romish papists as “mackerel snappers” because of the previous interdiction against eating fish on Fridays. This is also the reason the McDonald’s Filet o’ Fish was invented.

    Indeed. And one can legitimately claim that this is a nice legacy. Too bad the modernist catholic bishops cave in to the 1960s Zeitgeist and abolished the strict fasting rules — fasting, which, incidentally, one of the reasons why I became an Orthodox. Fasting makes me a better man (or rather a much less crappy one) every single day I do it.

    I’ve heard whispers of a pink mafia at the conclave for a long time.

    You would certainly appreciate Dr Randy Engel’s “The Rite of [email protected]@my”. And she’s a devout Roman Catholic.

    The denominations which resist the poz tend to be full of double digit IQ dullards unforutantely.

    Tell you what: this is one of the manifold reasons why I think the IQ debate is vacuous in many respects: high IQ, at least for Whites, appears to correlate with low survival instincts. Which undoubtedly is not good in terms of evolution competition; but on the other hand we are to believe that high intelligence gives an edge in said competition. Something must give.

    Funny how we live half a world away, of different nationalities and backgrounds, but could be friends as it seems. It must be the fact that we’re White (I am not even of a Northern European ethnos).

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  403. @DFH

    Unfortunately this is simply incorrect, like most of what EMJ says about Protestants/England.

    You may be right, but your answer is a bit short and unsubstantiated.

    That said I appreciate what I have read of your comments since my arrival here, and am thus considering your comment. In addition, EMJ appears to be an Opus Dei hack as I have recently found out — and to me this is an absolute deal breaker. Or rather the Opus Judaei as one of my rad-trad SSPX type friends calls Escriva’s cult.

    BTW I am not English but I gather you are an English nationalist. Although I think it is best for everyone on the Continent to keep the English at arms’ length, I do sympathize with your cause and I hope you may succeed in removing kebab from the Isle of the Saints.

  404. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    You act like you are some impartial voice on this topic even though you basically admitted that you think that Mexico should conquer the US. You’ve never said what you wanted done with white Americans but presumably you would have them exterminated to make living space for your precious Latrino master race.

    Lol I think Mexicans are cool – it’s true.

    I just go with the viewpoint of Spanish state television, that was a tragedy what has happened in the history of Mexico.

    With a lot of distance from the topic, I hope US and Mexico will become more separate and with stronger border walls between them.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  405. Lol I think Mexicans are cool – it’s true.

    No doubt about that: https://www.ranker.com/list/brutal-execution-methods-used-by-mexican-drug-cartels/harrison-tenpas

    I just go with the viewpoint of Spanish state television, that was a tragedy what has happened in the history of Mexico.

    Funny that some dude commenting on a WN website would give any credit to the extreme-liberal-feminist-and-otherwise-totally-cucked Spanish TV.

    With a lot of distance from the topic, I hope US and Mexico will become more separate and with stronger border walls between them.

    I would also hope for that but I think the opposite will happen, with the US descend into inescapable Mexicanization. Which should make you happy as you seem to enjoy the mesoamerican savages.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  406. @Dmitry

    do you agree that Mexico should have to pay for the US border wall?

  407. @Rattus Norwegius

    From what I quickly scanned of it: Yes, and yes.

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
  408. @AP

    Also for cultural diversity – I would prefer if e.g. Aztecs were still around

    Yes, who cares about people being live-sacrificed. Diversity is more important. Makes for interestimg documentaries to entertain you.

    I have not followed this website for very long, so therefore please correct if I’m wrong, but I believe being the Dmitry handle is a live Jew. So don’t expect him to say that anything Catholic (or Orthodox for that matter) may be good. Jews will choose human sacrificing savages over Christians any time — which is also consistent with their very own human sacrificing practices.

  409. @German_reader

    It’s been a long time since I last delved into the literature, but my impression is that this theory is not taken seriously by current economic historians.

    The human capital buildup explanations promoted by e.g. Van Zanden seem more convincing to me.

  410. Dmitry says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Funny that some dude commenting on a WN website would give any credit to the extreme-liberal-feminist-and-otherwise-totally-cucked Spanish TV.

    I never realized this is a White Nationalist website (see who is the owner of the website), or the people we are talking between.

    As for Spanish television – they produce good historical documentaries, regardless of politics.

    AP said that criticizing the conquistadors and support of destroying peoples’ temples, etc, was something to do with anti-Spanish propaganda. The claim did not seem reasonable when all criticism is from Spain – and professional history books of Spain, which are writing lovingly about Spain, but critically about this episode. My own knowledge is from Spanish sources only (I have never read an English or Russian book about this).

    The other thing which makes not sense, is that I think he was supporting it because of Christianity. But strongest contemporary criticism was from people like:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartolom%C3%A9_de_las_Casas

    I don’t think Jesus would have wanted to be responsibility for this historical events either – it’s very a bad story, and recommend to read about it.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  411. @German_reader

    The world can probably support many billions more people. Having more of them be high quality people will (1) be good for their countries – think of what Germany could do with 500 million Germans; and (2) will supercharge the rate of global innovation, which will be good for almost everyone.

    As I have argued, without a technological singularity or other radical technological development, the return of a high-fertility Malthusian world is inevitable in the long-run.

  412. @Dmitry

    I never realized this is a White Nationalist website (see who is the owner of the website), or the people we are talking between.

    I am sorry I was being very sloppy in my characterization there: what I meant is the AK comments sections in general. Most people there appear to be of WN persuasion, except for some outliers/trolls like “Bliss” or “Talha”; and of course the usual suspect, the eternal Jew, always there to deride the good and defend the bad.

    No doubt that many Spaniards behaved like enraged beasts; and yet the Mesos have survived. In case you happen to read Spanish, I suggest you read Las Cartas de Relacion de Hernan Cortes, instead of watching public Spanish Gay-V. You will see that Cortes himself and from very early on encouraged the miscegenation of male Spaniards with female Mesos, as he viewed this as the ferment of a new (and superior) race. Total bullshit of course from my standpoint, but the point here is that rumors of Meso genocide by the Spaniards are vastly overstated. In addition you seem to have never heard of la Noche Triste, which indicates that many (if not most) Mesos of the time seemed to like the Spaniards much better than their “fellow” Aztecs.

    Any White man not out of his mind will immediately admit that Aztecs were just above animals and had to be eliminated from the face of the Earth. We must commend the Spaniards for having achieved that feat and encourage them to be proud of their heritage in this respect.

    • Replies: @Talha
  413. @Mitleser

    Indeed, one might also note that Tenochtitlan was almost an order of magnitude more populous than the largest Eurasian city at the equivalent point of technological development.

    Technological progress also seems to have happened faster in the Americas after corn was domesticated (which was a harder, much longer process than wheat).

    I suspect that the Americas would abandoned human sacrifice a millennium or two afterwards in an alt history where Eurasia was wiped out by a gamma ray burst, and would have advanced to an industrial revolution in another two or three.

  414. @AP

    Obviously the Spaniards who conquered the New World weren’t saints. Neither were the Allies who defeated Nazism.

    Nazism was a threat to the rest of the world and had initiated wars of aggression and conquest, defeating it was just self-defense. The Aztecs weren’t exactly a threat to Spain or other European countries. The scenario is more akin to today’s “humanitarian” interventions, and just as with them, it’s far from easy to discern whether destroying the Aztecs’ empire might not have caused more suffering than it prevented (and that doesn’t even take the Spaniards’ self-interest with all their massive looting into account).
    And as I wrote above, the Aztecs were probably unusual in the scale of their human sacrifices. Other pre-Colombian cultures had many unpleasant aspects as well, but not at the same level. They were still subjected by the Spaniards though. Picking what may be the worst example of a pre-Colombian culture as basis of your argument is a pretty selective view of things.
    Anyway, it’s of course all a bit pointless since history can’t be changed.

    • Replies: @AP
  415. @Dmitry

    TBH, I don’t get any of you guys.

    1. Human sacrifice was common to almost all Eurasian civilizations, during the era of the god-kings. So I don’t know why AP is getting so emotional over the Aztecs doing it in the 15th century. Almost certainly it would have faded away in consequent centuries and millennia, without European or Christian intervention.

    2. Said European (or Eurasian) intervention was inevitable, because the Atlantic is not that wide and Eurasia had several millenniums’ worth of technological advantage over the indigenous Americans. Consequently, being overly sorry over the destruction of an Aztec, or Inca, or even Native American indigenous development path would only make sense in the context of extreme alt history scenarios (e.g., a gamma ray burst taking out Eurasia c.1400).

  416. @Anatoly Karlin

    so now you love Hispanics too? Why do you Russians think Latrinos are so great? You lived in CA so you got to see first hand that they are all subhuman scum.

  417. @Anatoly Karlin

    Human sacrifice was common to almost all Eurasian civilizations, during the era of the god-kings. So I don’t know why AP is getting so emotional over the Aztecs doing it in the 15th century. Almost certainly it would have faded away in consequent centuries and millennia, without European or Christian intervention.

    This we really do not know. They might just have well slaughtered each other into extinction. In any event, in the 15th C. our Euro ancestors had already figured out that slashing open someone’s rib cage (alive!) had bad optics, whereas it was still totally cool for the Meso savages. But we cannot also rule out that they would have developed a local equivalent of Wakanda with anti-gravity spaceships and all that jazz. Someone when I look at today’s Mexicans I can’t really allocate too much likelihood to that scenario.

    Said European (or Eurasian) intervention was inevitable, because the Atlantic is not that wide and Eurasia had several millenniums’ worth of technological advantage over the indigenous Americans.

    Indeed, and only degenerate 21-st century Euros can argue that conquest by a superior civilization is bad.

    Consequently, being overly sorry over the destruction of an Aztec, or Inca, or even Native American indigenous development path would only make sense in the context of extreme alt history scenarios (e.g., a gamma ray burst taking out Eurasia c.1400).

    Yes. Alt-history is a totally vacuous exercise.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  418. Talha says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Most people there appear to be of WN persuasion, except for some outliers/trolls like “Bliss” or “Talha”

    You’ve got me totally wrong – I fully support White Nationalists. 100%. If there was a vote to let a certain number of White majority states secede, I would vote for it in a heartbeat.

    Long live Whitekanda!

    I’m a friend and support it fully – the only thing I ask, and it isn’t that much, is that this White Ehtno-State have written into its constitution that the one religion officially banned from within its borders is Islam. That needs to be a founding article of incorporation.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  419. @Anatoly Karlin

    You’re of course completely right about all of that, but the discussion was still kind of entertaining.

  420. @Greasy William

    You’ve never said what you wanted done with white Americans

    Probably going to be sacrificed for the amusement of Russian tourists.

    • Agree: Greasy William, Dmitry
  421. @Guillaume Tell

    so now you love Hispanics too? Why do you Russians think Latrinos are so great?

    I don’t. I have no particular racial reason to hate them either, though, unlike about five other nationalities (the Jew, the German, the Anglo, the Turk, and the teetotaller).

    In any event, in the 15th C. our Euro ancestors had already figured out that slashing open someone’s rib cage (alive!) had bad optics, whereas it was still totally cool for the Meso imbeciles.

    Eurasians were several millennia’ worth of technological and sociopolitical advance ahead of indigenous Americans.

    The people who settled the Americans were basically an early branch off the Mongoloids, who developed successfully. The Mayans independently developed literacy, and did very good astronomy for their technological level. The Incas were likely on the verge of it (quipu). In contrast, no African civilization independently developed literacy.

    Indeed, and only degenerate 21-st century Euros can argue that conquest by a superior civilization is bad.

    Well, that at least is certainly not something you can fault me on.

  422. @Anatoly Karlin

    I have no particular racial reason to hate them either, though, unlike about five other nationalities (the Jew, the German, the Anglo, the Turk, and the teetotaller).

    Fair enough, although I would replace the German by the Arab — and assuming the teetotaller category includes muslimoids of all colors.

    In contrast, no African civilization independently developed literacy.

    It’s clear that Mesos seem extremely smart in comparison.

    Well, that at least is certainly not something you can fault me on

    I certainly do not. Please accept my apologies if I gave the impression that this comment was aimed at you — it wasn’t.

  423. @Talha

    the only thing I ask, and it isn’t that much, is that this White Ehtno-State have written into its constitution that the one religion officially banned from within its borders is Islam. That needs to be a founding article of incorporation.

    If such a thing were to happen, I don’t think your opinion would matter much.

    • Replies: @Talha
  424. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    2. Said European (or Eurasian) intervention was inevitable, because the Atlantic is not that wide and Eurasia had several millenniums’ worth of technological advantage over the indigenous Americans. Consequently, being overly sorry over the destruction of an Aztec, or Inca, or even Native American indigenous development path would only make sense in the context of extreme alt history scenarios (e.g., a gamma ray burst taking out Eurasia c.1400).

    It’s unlikely, but at the same time there are isolated civilizations that could survive strange fortunes of history – Japan is an example of quite isolated, and very unconquered until recently civilization, which has internally modernized, and finally had a non-damaging occupation.

    Russia, India and China, have been able to survive, and partially reconstitute, original civilizations after conquest and subjugation, and all kinds of disasters.

    Aztec, Maya and Inca are just ruined without repair, and lost for all time as much as Ancient Egypt.

    From any perspective, it would be cool if they had survived, been able to internally reform and adapted, or had been colonized in a way that does not permanently ruin them – like the British occupation of India.

    1. Human sacrifice was common to almost all Eurasian civilizations, during the era of the god-kings. So I don’t know why AP is getting so emotional over the Aztecs doing it in the 15th century. Almost certainly it would have faded away in consequent centuries and millennia, without European or Christian intervention.

    Lol I would predicted his views would be the opposite. Usually I am a secret fan AP and he seems civilized – e.g. when he says Lvov is the new New York, etc, this is cool and I want to believe .

    But “Conquistador Revisionism” – perhaps it is some new fashion in Ukraine.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  425. Talha says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    I know – I would be banned on two grounds!!!! Remember, this needs to be made publicly known; All Muslims are verboten.

    Let’s make it happen; you have my vote.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  426. @Talha

    You seem to be a funny guy with good spirits. I would probably petition our benevolent dictator so you and your family can stay — provided you stop offending my intelligence with nonsensical fables for inbred camel herders.

    • Replies: @Talha
  427. @Anatoly Karlin

    The Turk? What, cause of that plane?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  428. @Dmitry

    Japan is an example of quite isolated, and very unconquered until recently civilization

    There’s no comparison though, even the most advanced pre-Colombian societies were millennia behind Eurasia, they never stood a chance. There were also many ecological factors that disadvantaged them in their development (I’ve forgotten the exact argument as I tend to do, but it includes factors like the lack of animals suitable for domestication and the North-South orientation of the Americas instead of the East-West one of Eurasia which iirc impeded the spread of agriculture and exchange).

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Dmitry
  429. @Greasy William

    Russia and the Ottoman empire fought lots of wars in the 18th and 19th centuries.
    There was also all that slave raiding by the Crimean Tatars who were allied with the Ottomans.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  430. @German_reader

    Not to mention the fact that Turkish women are repulsive.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  431. Talha says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Well my wife is White so I guess she qualifies, but she converted…so no soup for her!!!

    My assumption is that only part of the US would become Whitekanda because not all Whites would want to move there and obviously no one else would be allowed. I’d vote for it to happen partially to avoid the repercussions of forcing everyone to be together that doesn’t want to. Iraq, Syria and Libya are case studies in the results of civil war (of course Yugoslavia before that).

    Don’t worry though, there are plenty of places in the Muslim world we can go to; Alexandria is probably top of the list, Sharjah is good too, I know of families that have left the West to live there. If Syria wasn’t in such a bad state, I would easily put Damascus in the running. As I’ve told others, I don’t mind moving if the citizens of the US decide to strip me of citizenship and have me deported – as long as it’s done legally. Once I get the official federal notice in the mail, I will start getting everything in order.

    I wouldn’t mind visiting Whitekanda just to see how things are running; probably will have great theme parks and very clean streets…lots of dog parks. I’d be ready to sign a dhimmah contract for the duration.

    provided you stop offending my intelligence

    I would assume a clause prohibiting proselytizing is inclusive of the dhimmah contract as it is with us.

    I usually don’t go into those kinds of details unless somebody challenges me. You can always feel free to ignore my comments – I wish more people did frankly – I won’t mind

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Guillaume Tell
  432. @Guillaume Tell

    Turkish women are crazy hot. You blind.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  433. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    Meeting up with diseases they had been completely isolated from really did them in. Really badly.

    Peace.

  434. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    There’s no comparison though, even the most advanced pre-Colombian societies were millennia behind Eurasia, they never stood a chance. There were also many ecological factors that disadvantaged them in their development (I’ve forgotten the exact argument as I tend to do, but it includes factors like the lack of animals suitable for domestication and the North-South orientation of the Americas instead of the East-West one of Eurasia which iirc impeded the spread of agriculture and exchange).

    Cortes arrived his ships in Mexico in 1519.

    Japan was introduced to firearms in 1543, by explorers from Portugal.

    -

    There is theoretical potential for Japan to have been harmed.

    Imagine Cortes had decided to sail his fleet there with a desire for gold (the motive for his landing in Mexico).

    Japan – at a far more advanced historical level – would have resisted far more strongly than Aztecs did – but the key difference in military technology still was there (between firearms and no firearms).

    -

    Fortunately for Japan, this was the kind of pleasant encounter that landed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant%C3%B3nio_Mota_(explorer)

  435. @Dmitry

    Imagine Cortes had decided to sail his fleet there with a desire for gold.

    The Japanese would have just crushed his force. You have to remember that Cortes had only a few hundred men, he only succeeded (and barely, he suffered a really severe setback in La noche triste) because of his technological superiority and with the aid of his native allies who hated the Aztecs. He was also greatly aided by diseases like smallpox decimating the natives. None of this would have been the case in Japan which probably was one of the more advanced societies of 16th century Eurasia.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  436. @Dmitry

    You’re overestimating the importance of firearms. Until essentially modern percussion cap bullets with multishot firearms existed, bows and horsemen remained consistently competitive(consider the existence of the Apache). The Ming, with cannons and muskets, would be plagued by bow-wielding nomads for a long, long time. Muskets of the time period were not rifled and bullets were not standardized – their accuracy was horrendous, and it was in such a circumstance that volley fire(which I believe was a Prussian innovation, German_Reader can correct me if I’m wrong) would prove useful.

    Indeed, I believe Spanish guns were not even flintlocks. Matchlocks were unreliable at best, and extremely unreliable during wet weather. The Spanish compensated by being excellent swordsmen, but I’m dubious they were excellent relative to Japanese samurai.

    Jared Diamond noted that the main Spanish advantage in technology lay in steel, not guns; such a disparity in technology did not exist versus the Japanese, who were also much more accustomed to fighting a much more complex styles of warfare.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Dmitry
  437. iffen says:
    @AP

    The Church is universal, it will move on … And leave you secularists, Right or Left, in the dust.

    Don’t let the door hit you in the …

    • Replies: @Anon
  438. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    Surely you are right.

    But some points.

    Cortes’ expedition was particularly small, and surely not large enough – at the same time, it is constituted by extremely elite and brutal soldiers, from strongest and most advanced military in the world of the time.

    Cortes himself was an evil and brutal genius, as agreed by any history, and his conquest of the Aztecs was something almost incredible and a result of many brilliant stratagems.

    Japan at the time is experiencing a century of civil war between different lords and armies, that could have been allied with. One side with firearms, the other side not. It would still not be a pleasant scenario.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  439. Talha says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Jared Diamond noted that the main Spanish advantage in technology lay in steel, not guns

    Indeed. I came across this video a while back that may be of interest:

    If you notice, in the hands of an expert, the atlatl could be as accurate as a rifle at a reasonable range.

    Peace.

  440. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Indeed, I believe Spanish guns were not even flintlocks. Matchlocks were unreliable at best, and extremely unreliable during wet weather. The Spanish compensated by being excellent swordsmen, but I’m dubious they were excellent relative to Japanese samurai.

    The Spanish military was awesome in this era – and Cortes’ expedition had elite soldiers.

    You’re right that a lot of killing of Aztecs was by sword, not firearm. And numbers in the historical expedition would be too small to destroy any less vulnerable civilizations than the Aztecs.

    Cortes succeeded in conquering the Aztecs with all kinds of evil and brutal stratagems, and probably quite a lot of luck (as well as unintentional biological warfare, in the common diseases he and his men carried, for which isolated Aztec populations had no immunity)

    But we are imagining parallel history here. So we could increase the size of the expedition and still see dangers for more historically advanced civilizations (than the Aztecs).

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  441. AP says:
    @German_reader

    It’s not propaganda that the Spanish conquest led to the natives of various Caribbean islands being largely wiped out within just a few decades

    Modern Puerto Ricans are about 20% Native. So a lot has been preserved. In the Caribbean the less religious adventurers committed crimes, the Church protested and crimes were mitigated. We know about these crimes because a churchman described them in his efforts to have them stopped (he exaggerated for polemic effect, Protestants and Spain’s English rivals used his claims at face value to bash Catholics and Spaniards, and atheists naturally also accepted these at face value).

    Nor is it propaganda that the Spanish employed all manner of treachery (just remember what Pizarro did)

    This I agree. Pizarro was punished by the Spanish authorities for his actions.

    They also introduced systems of forced labour that permanently subjected much of the native population.

    No, natives were already enserfed. They were also sacrificed before. Spaniards preserved the serfdom for a time but brought literacy and higher culture, and ended sacrifice. Rights were gradually expanded. No way by 1800 or today common people would have lived as well as they did had Aztec culture persisted.

    Remember Spaniards would not have won if Aztec neighbors had not joined them.

  442. @Dmitry

    Its not that easy to simply scale up things – logistics become an increasing consideration(consider the failed Yuan invasions of Japan). The overwhelming domination by the Eternal Anglo later on, frustrating as it might be, was because they have an overall excellence in all aspects that involved warfare, including support.

    Cortes succeeded in conquering the Aztecs with all kinds of evil and brutal stratagems, and probably quite a lot of luck

    Honestly, he was politically adept and the Aztecs made way too many enemies, allowing him to gather native allies. The Spanish military advantage was not only in firearms, but also metal, armor, tactics, operations, etc,etc. As Mr. Karlin indicated, it was really just overwhelming: they were ahead on material and social technology hugely.

    They would have likely won as much if they had no guns at all. It didn’t work elsewhere, the Ming had multiple conflicts with Europeans who had similar ambitions which ended in disaster for them.

    • Replies: @Anon
  443. @Dmitry

    A single charge of Takeda cavalry would have ended his expedition. They lacked everything needed to stop heavy cavalry, or really any serious combined arms force at all.

  444. LatW says:
    @German_reader

    Not that I want the GDR back, but that’s something they were more successful with than the west

    Well, it was a combination of infrastructure and social cohesion – there was still a lot of traditional family help, too. Parents today enjoy fewer traditional family bonds while having to deal with more restrictions imposed from above or through urbanization. The welfare is now quite generous (we have a year long paid leave), but people’s expectations rise – everyone wants to live in the city and have the daycare within a 15 minute radius. That said, some families are literally saying – we’ll have more, just give us the daycare! Daycare is not ideal, but at least in E.Europe the kid will be raised on the same values as the parents’. The solution here would be to raise the standard of living in smaller towns – in fact, make the living standards there higher than in the city (slow process). Women were also less accessible for casual encounters back in the 80s (sure that stuff happened, but less so, at least that’s what I’ve heard from my parents’ generation).

    It’s hardly just an issue of secular hedonists not wanting to reproduce because it would ruin their fun.

    No, you’re right, it’s definitely not just “hedonism” (that’s just a small part of it). IMO, it’s a misconception that there is this prevalent hedonism that can be “healed” by religion to raise birthrates (for instance, some women in their 20s can be chaste for years and one’s behavior should really be about one’s own responsibility and self-respect, or inspiration from a person you look up to – values are important but they should come from within and by living up to desirable behaviors). The birthrates don’t need to be raised by much, if all women that want to have a child (or another child) were able to, the birthrates would rise substantially. The issue is not spiritual, but economic (in the Greek sense of the word “oikos” – household). Some kind of a wealth transfer from older to younger males would be a good idea (not in a literal sense, but something to help the young and middle generation (parents of younger children)).

    Islamic-Christian alliance of the pious?

    Sounds scary. Yea, no.. the Church can be respected, but it has its own place.

    The catholic position is too absolutist for me though.

    Banning abortion would probably not have the desired effect in European societies.

  445. LatW says:
    @Mitleser

    That’s not that much higher than in some Nordic countries or Western Ukraine. A white totalitarian (or authoritarian) society could easily produce those kinds of TFRs or higher (if natality were the goal, which it typically is in such societies).

    And, yea, I’m still dizzy from the fact that Lega Nord has so much power now.

  446. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen

    You speak from experience, no doubt?

  447. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    social technology

    Not demanding human sacrifices was a bit of a plus, I admit.

  448. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    no soup for her!!!

    Your exception is hereby canceled. “Seinfeld” viewers will be subject to deportation and those who persist in retelling jokes from the series will be punished on a sliding scale commensurate with the badness of the joke, with the maximum penalty decapitation.

    The minimum punishment is a brief commitment to a psych ward for sense-of-humour training.

    • Replies: @Talha
  449. Talha says:
    @Anon

    I would assume a clause against blasphemous statements is also included in the dhimmah agreement.

    Peace.

  450. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    Normally you sound civilized and sensible. But you have gone a little crazy with this topic – everything above sounds like something that could be written by an radical Islamist in relation the West, and the opposite of a view of an educated or civilized.

    People were actually brutally sacrificed on a massive scale. I think this may have been unique in history – pre-Christian savages such as Celts often engaged in human sacrifice but the assembly-line mass scale of this among the Aztecs was rather unique. I don’t doubt that many modern academics who consider themselves to be “educated” or “civilized” would condemn the Spaniards for ending that civilization – shame on those modern academics.

    Also your claims have no relation to historical reality, or motive of conquistadors, or what is described in the history books written by Spanish professionals who study this topic, and write histories of Spain that are sold in the bookshops in central Madrid, where you can see them .

    I suspect that modern Spanish academics and mass media are as anti-Spanish as modern American academics and media sources are anti-American. Your referring to them certainly suggests that this is the case.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  451. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Human sacrifice was common to almost all Eurasian civilizations, during the era of the god-kings

    Meso-Americans seem to have practiced it on a much larger, basically assembly-line scale, than any other ancient civilization.

    So I don’t know why AP is getting so emotional over the Aztecs doing it in the 15th century

    It highlights that the Spaniards did a very good thing by ending that civilization. And that their actions were reasonable and justified.

    To argue otherwise is to demonstrate a real deep resentment of Spaniards, Europeans, Catholics, or whatever.

    Almost certainly it would have faded away in consequent centuries and millennia, without European or Christian intervention.

    Maybe. However the Aztecs were conquering and raiding an increasing number of people to feed the sacrifices. Given the conservative estimate of 20,000 victims a year, 200,000 in ten years, 2 million in a hundred years, we’d be talking several millions of victims when – or if – they decided to stop.

    Sacrificing people just permeated all aspects of their religion. Here is a less dramatic example than ripping hearts out in public:

    “Archaeologists have found the remains of at least 42 children sacrificed to Tlaloc at the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan. Many of the children suffered from serious injuries before their death, they would have to have been in significant pain as Tlaloc required the tears of the young as part of the sacrifice. The priests made the children cry during their way to immolation: a good omen that Tlaloc would wet the earth in the raining season..”

    It’s completely understandable that Spaniards, hardened warriors as they were, found themselves utterly horrified by what they say, considered the Aztec gods demanding such sacrifices to be demons (how else could they be characterized?) and acted accordingly. People lamenting the end of the Aztec civilization probably couldn’t stomach animals being treated, as Aztecs treated humans.

  452. AP says:
    @German_reader

    Nazism was a threat to the rest of the world and had initiated wars of aggression and conquest, defeating it was just self-defense

    Aztecs couldn’t reach Europe because they were too primitive, but they were certainly conquering their neighbors.

    The scenario is more akin to today’s “humanitarian” interventions, and just as with them, it’s far from easy to discern whether destroying the Aztecs’ empire might not have caused more suffering than it prevented

    Setting aside the inadvertent mass death from plagues, how can you reasonably posit such a question? Prior to the Spanish invasion, you had a society of mostly serfs/slaves, brutally treated and mass sacrificed. Sacrificing humans was a central aspect of Meso-American life. Many gods, each with their own demands. Children were tortured prior to sacrifice because tears guaranteed rain. Some people had their hearts ripped out at the temple, others on mountain sides after being burned first. Some people were drowned. People who weren’t sacrificed to death engaged in self-mutilation such as cutting their tongues or ears. Etc.

    Are you such a post-modernist that even this is acceptable as just another way of life?

    When the Spanish got finished with these people, they could read and right, had the rights of European peasants (as unpleasant as this was, no comparison to pre-contact situation), worshiped in Baroque cathedrals. If you found yourself in Mexico in, say, 1800, you would be in an environment not radically unlike Spain at a similar time. If you were there in 1400 it would be as if you had stepped into a horror movie.

    By 1800, had the Spaniards not conquered, at a rate of 20,000 per year about 6 million people would have been brutally sacrificed. It seems very odd to claim “it’s far from easy to discern whether destroying the Aztecs’ empire might not have caused more suffering than it prevented “

    • Replies: @Talha
  453. Talha says:
    @AP

    In pre-modern times, I’m fine with empires duking it out for supremacy, that’s totally OK in my book because that’s just what empires do. So I don’t think that is the major issue; the issue is the level of destruction meted out by the Spaniards.

    Look, not all conquests are the same; one can say, yeah I’m glad the Spanish took over the Aztecs bacause of A, B & C but yeah they were over-the-top brutal about it.

    I mean, I can recognize the difference between the way the Abbasids went to war versus the brutality of the Timurids. And I think that’s really all people are looking for from you, an acknowledgment that they were too sanguinary in their approach.

    Peace.

    Note: For the record, I’m glad they left paganism for Christianity, but again it didn’t have to be so destructive (as others have pointed out).

    • Replies: @AP
    , @iffen
  454. AP says:
    @Talha

    So I don’t think that is the major issue; the issue is the level of destruction meted out by the Spaniards.

    Which was nothing compared to the over-the-top level of destruction Aztecs themselves engaged in. Globally speaking, this was a rather uniquely bloodthirsty culture. Their gods demanded human blood and pain.

    Here is their god Tlaloc:

    From wiki:

    “Archaeologists have found the remains of at least 42 children sacrificed to Tlaloc at the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan. Many of the children suffered from serious injuries before their death, they would have to have been in significant pain as Tlaloc required the tears of the young as part of the sacrifice. The priests made the children cry during their way to immolation: a good omen that Tlaloc would wet the earth in the raining season.”

    How is this “god” not, actually, a demon?

    How is it not an expression of basic decency that horrified Spaniards smashed idols to such demons?

    :::::::::::::::::::::

    I highlighted the destruction of the Aztecs because, objectively, it is pretty clear that such destruction was on balance a very good thing, given the nature of the culture that was destroyed and replaced. One can’t say the same about what the Spaniards did in the Caribbean, for example, nor perhaps the Inca. But someone who thinks it was bad that the Spanish destroyed and replaced the Aztec culture is clearly just anti-Spanish, anti-European or anti-Catholic. Or is so post-modern that human dignity and life no longer have any essential value. It’s a good litmus test. It seems several people here have failed it.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  455. @AP

    There’s something about such brutal past societies that always makes me muse that if it was written as fictional entity, people would find them much too ridiculous.

  456. @AP

    Hungary, meanwhile, has 34 tanks in service!

    I think I have already complained about how we have no army to speak of. Our air force is also weak, but some of our neighbors have even less.

  457. @Daniel Chieh

    Is it really stranger than Lovecraft?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  458. @Mitleser

    While white/yellow sharia would probably produce higher birthrates I find Juche to be much more sympathetic given its more modern and adaptable/desirable form.

    • Replies: @DFH
  459. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    People were actually brutally sacrificed on a massive scale. I think this may have been unique in history – pre-Christian savages such as Celts often engaged in human sacrifice but the assembly-line mass scale of this among the Aztecs was rather unique. I don’t doubt that many modern academics who consider themselves to be “educated” or “civilized” would condemn the Spaniards for ending that civilization – shame on those modern academics.

    If you are so concerned for victims of Aztecs, then why would you support someone who also massacred, in brutal reprisals – many (sometimes unarmed) non-Aztecs, like the Indians of Panuco, the Tepeyacanos, the Huastecs.

    Or whose soldiers recorded betraying people (poor Cuauhtemoc) – and with the motive being gold/treasure – and who also talk about other (“Christian”) things like taking the prettiest girls, etc.

    Also writing “shame” for historians who are trying to record what happened in an objective way. It is unbalanced.

    History and war is something brutal – yes, including the societies which were destroyed.

    At the same time, I don’t see how any Christian view is accepting warcrimes, or massacres of unarmed people. And if it is – I would say it is not a real god-fearing Christian view, or which Jesus would not condemn.

    A more normal position would be something like that “invasion was often horrific, leading to mass deaths of innocent people, and almost always motivated by greed, but at least it had an unintended consequence of spreading Christianity to a society in which human sacrifice was existent”.

    Also I cannot see how this kind amoral attitude matches with your usual – justified – condemnation of crimes by Soviet Union against civilians, or crimes against the Ukrainian nation.

    By the way, my own view is not “post-modern”. It is just a little more balanced and closer to the normal view that is taken by experts, than yours which is unusual and I wonder where you read it.

    I suspect that modern Spanish academics and mass media are as anti-Spanish as modern American academics and media sources are anti-American. Your referring to them certainly suggests that this is the case.

    I don’t think so. For example, I read a general “history of Spain” that I bought in a bookshop in Madrid. It was a patriotic text overall by a Spanish professor – but which has no problem commiserating the warcrimes that occurred in this period.

    Not any differently than an American patriot would not be proud of the Mỹ Lai Massacre.

    American historians might even argue that “Vietnam War was good because it tried to defeating Communism which is an evil ideology”.

    But stating that any historians who are reporting the My Lai Massacre are anti-American propaganda, even though it is the mainstream position of American historians to report it. It’s not an strong argument.

    It’s completely understandable that Spaniards, hardened warriors as they were, found themselves utterly horrified by what they say, considered the Aztec gods demanding such sacrifices to be demons (how else could they be characterized?) and acted accordingly. People lamenting the end of the Aztec civilization probably couldn’t stomach animals being treated, as Aztecs treated humans.

    You seem to have a naive view of the motives of the conquistadors. The conquistadors admired the Aztecs.

    Yes they wished to spread Christianity and to end sacrifice became a popular rationalism/excuse in later accounts. But in terms of human sacrifice, even apologetics texts like Bernal Diaz Del Castillo are writing quite curiously and causally, coldly about it. He says many times it is a form of idolatry to abominable spirits, but as you say, these are “hardened warriors” . The allies of Cortes are sacrificing prisoners in support of Cortes’s expedition itself.

    The amount of gold and treasure they get is endlessly mentioned in the same texts.

    The documentary of Spanish state television posted above just says directly that the motive for the expedition was gold and treasure.

    • Replies: @AP
  460. DFH says:
    @Hyperborean

    What could be more adaptable/desirable than crashing the economy and stunting the population?

  461. @Talha

    In addition to having good spirits and being generally agreeable, you also appear to very much enjoy LARPing. Certainly a nice fellow all around.

  462. @Greasy William

    No really they’re not. Their moustaches and hairy arms really bother me.

    • Replies: @Anon
  463. @Daniel Chieh

    The Spanish Inquisition’s role in crushing that Chaos cult early also preempted the real Inquisition from taking an undue interest in our planet.

    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  464. Mitleser says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    You do not need extreme alt history scenario in order to make the Americans perform better.

    One of the main reason they were so screwed was that they got hit by European plagues and had not enough time to recover before they got hit by European human invaders. The former was more or less inevitale, the latter not so much.
    The conquest and colonization of the Americas could have been delayed by many factors, just as the conquest of Barbary states was delayed by European politics.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  465. @AP

    People lamenting the end of the Aztec civilization probably couldn’t stomach animals being treated, as Aztecs treated humans.

    This is an excellent remark.

    But I think the crux of your argument is the following:

    To argue otherwise is to demonstrate a real deep resentment of Spaniards, Europeans, Catholics, or whatever.

    and this is also true. In fact modernist/secularist types simply parrot the Leyenda Negra of the Anglos against Spaniards. It is also rather telling when you consider that prominent Spanish supporters of this theory were Napoleonic collaborationists (afrancesados) like that Llorente POS.

    The problems I see with most Anglo/Northern European commenters is (1) that they do not possess a sufficient command on Spanish to read the contemporary authors (Cortes in particular but not only) and therefore rely on tendencious translations at best, and plain hearsay at worst; and (2) are intellectually tainted by an anti-Catholicism that has been instilled into them since birth — and this is a former Catholic, now Orthodox, who is writing that.

    All in all it does not matter as (A) there is no way to change what has happened and therefore what has happened is by definition the only possible outcome and all other discussions are a complete waste of time; (B) it is vain and unintelligent to judge the actions of people who died 500 years ago based on our current-day moral fads; (C) today’s Spain is a completely sterile and pozzed country not even interested in defending its own legacy (which is quite awesome however in my view).

    • Agree: AP
  466. @Anatoly Karlin

    Will you read the paper in it’s entirety?

    The paper does present a scenario with strong state involvment. It is after all a paper on the demographic policies of the Russian Federation. On the other hand, is it reasonable to expect the state to actually carry out these policies?

    Perhaps private individual should take some controll over the situation themselves, and not just wait for the state to ‘fix everything’.

    One of the authors of the paper was a member of a anti-tobacco organisation and a organisation that wants to change Russian alcohol culture.

    One idea i had for what a civil organisation could do it related to housing. Example, one organisation or multiple organisations could present information on how to best utilize the space in apartments, houses and other forms of residental buildings.

    Businees should also be involved in the project of improving the demographics of the Russia. It is likely that businees could profit from doing work related to improving demographics. Work like building furniture that makes residences more ‘child friendly’.

    @Anatoly Karlin
    Could you imagine doing some work to further a positive trend in Russian demography?

  467. bb. says:

    speaking of assembly-line sacrifices reminded me of TESLA again. It now seems they’ve built a giant tent next to the factory because there was no space indoors for the 3rd M3 line.

    • Replies: @bb.
  468. bb. says:
    @bb.

    part of my comment got cut off, but I was interested if someone could comment on the feasibility of open air manufacture (welding, electronics etc) and air quality requirements.
    (If comment shows up, disregard)

  469. iffen says:
    @Talha

    I agree with you, Talha.

    The “civilized” approach would have been to give a Sermon on the Mount and then issue an altar call. :)

    • Replies: @Talha
  470. @Anatoly Karlin

    Incidentally, if you ever have time(haha, yeah right), I do recommend Dan Abnett’s Gaunt Ghost series(or just First & Only). Probably some of the best War40k fiction I’ve seen.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  471. Mitleser says:

    Future of America

  472. Talha says:
    @iffen

    They could have just given them the dhimmi option (demilitarization of their society) with a clause preventing the sacrifices (else the guilty would be punishable by rescinding the contract followed by exile or death). It’s not like they didn’t know about how the dhimmah system worked, they’d been living under it for 700 years.

    I’m not interested in how many Aztec warriors they hacked through, if you don’t want to be killed, don’t show up on a battlefield – but the massacres of innocents that Dimitry mentions have to be acknowledged as beyond the pale (just like the human sacrifices).

    I do wonder what Muslims would have done. They did come across the practice of sati (and likely temple prostitution) in India but they left it alone as long as the widow did it voluntarily – which of course has no parallel to involuntary human sacrifice.

    Now there is an instance recorded where Umar (ra) prevented some Egyptians from sacrificing a virgin by drowning her in the Nile River (to end a drought).

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Anon
    , @iffen
  473. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Some doubt the historicity of the Nile sacrifice though, it must be stated.

  474. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I do wonder what Muslims would have done.

    Going by the experience of India with the caveat that Mesoamerican religion was really horrible:

    They would have looted and destroyed some temples, left others standing, set up mosques to which the vast majority of the population would have adhered, punished apostates and “magicians”, put down a lot of rebellions with a lot of bloodshed, taken a lot of slaves, and imported others. So basically what the Spanish did, except with more harems.

    • Replies: @Talha
  475. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    If you are so concerned for victims of Aztecs, then why would you support someone who also massacred, in brutal reprisals – many (sometimes unarmed) non-Aztecs, like the Indians of Panuco, the Tepeyacanos, the Huastecs.

    This occurred in a war/invasion – the Aztec brutality was their way of life. Spanish colonial life wasn’t full of massacres year after year. But Aztec horrors were a normal feature of their society.

    Mayans all practiced widespread human sacrifice, not only Aztecs. It was a widespread Meso-American thing. Aztecs were just the largest and most successful empire so their victim count was larger.

    betraying people (poor Cuauhtemoc)

    Cuauhtemoc as an Aztec ruler was a human sacrificer of hundreds if not thousands. How “terrible” that in the process of destroying the Aztec culture, one of its leaders was betrayed. Poor Cuauhtemoc!

    Typically post-modern to lament that this monster was betrayed.

    A more normal position would be something like that “invasion was often horrific, leading to mass deaths of innocent people, and almost always motivated by greed, but at least it had an unintended consequence of spreading Christianity to a society in which human sacrifice was existent”.

    You think spreading Christianity was an “unintended consequence?” This was why expeditions were stocked with priests?

    No, an objective position would be “Spain, motivated by a mixture of greed and religious zeal, conquered and converted the brutal Aztec Empire, engaging in massacres while doing so. As a result, a primitive society characterized by brutal mass sacrifice of people was replaced by a civilized, more humane, Europeanized Christian one.”

    Of course, post-modern scholars don’t like words such as “primitive” or “civilized” because they are microaggressions, and prefer that words such as “brutal” only be applied towards Europeans.

    Also I cannot see how this kind amoral attitude matches with your usual – justified – condemnation of crimes by Soviet Union against civilians, or crimes against the Ukrainian nation.

    1. Spanish massacres were no more cruel than Aztec ones. Their activities did not add cruelty to Meso-America. Aztecs also massacred – or worse, harvested for human sacrifice – people whom they invaded.

    2. Result of Spanish invasion was a society that was orders of magnitude more humane than the one prior to Spanish invasion. Literally millions of people were spared the fate of being sacrificed, as a result of the Spanish invasion. Spanish invasion also brought higher culture, literacy, etc. Soviet invasion, in contrast, resulted in a much more inhumane repressive society.

    If you want to make an analogy, use the Western Allied invasion of Nazi Germany. Yes, crimes such as terror bombing of civilians were made during this process or removing a mass murdering regime from the Earth. But to characterize the invasion of Nazi Germany as a war crime of terror bombing by sadists motivated to steal German stuff, and that eliminating Nazism was an unintended consequence, is absurd. Yet this is how anti-Europeans, anti-Catholics, and-Spaniards characterize the invasion of the Aztec empire by the Spanish. If even modern Spanish are doing this -shame on them, Spain has succumbed to Western self-hatred.

    But in terms of human sacrifice, even apologetics texts like Bernal Diaz Del Castillo are writing quite curiously and causally, coldly about it

    Cortes stated “They have a most horrid and abominable custom which truly ought to be punished and which until now we have seen in no other part, and this is that, whenever they wish to ask something of the idols, in order that their plea may find more acceptance, they take many girls and boys and even adults, and in the presence of these idols they open their chests while they are still alive and take out their hearts and entrails and burn them before the idols, offering the smoke as sacrifice. Some of us have seen this, and they say it is the most terrible and frightful thing they have ever witnessed”

    Doesn’t look like he was casual about such horrors.

    • Agree: Guillaume Tell
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Talha
  476. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP

    As much to the point, if Dmitry doesn’t think the Aztecs were evil, why does he think the Spanish were evil? As he seems to speak from a general viewpoint of dialectical materialism, why does he think anybody is evil?

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  477. @Mitleser

    They never invented the axle, a huge disadvantage for transportation of goods and everything. They had wheels but only as toys; its interesting how just one small gap of invention can alter the utility of a concept so much.

    • Replies: @iffen
  478. Talha says:
    @Anon

    So basically what the Spanish did, except with more harems.

    Not so sure here. I completely agree that the (various) invasions of India were quite bloody and destructive, but the scale of what happened in the New World was simply not done. The Aztecs, Mayans and others lost a massive amount of their culture – and not just the bad parts mentioned by others. We are talking destruction of historical records, language being rooted out, large numbers of forced conversions, etc.

    The Muslims definitely subjugated Hindus, but Hindu civilization was not completely transformed. I men, they are still dealing with temple prostitution in certain parts.

    They would have looted and destroyed some temples, left others standing

    Correct – the Ghaznavids certainly loved to plunder in this fashion. One has to also assess the motivation behind this in India versus the New World. The person who has done the most thorough research on this topic is Prof. Richard Eaton. He points out that much of the later temple destruction (done by more thoroughly established Muslim sovereigns) was politically motivated, though some religious aspects obviously played into it. Hindu rulers built temples as prestige projects as a sign of their sovereignty and when other Hindu rulers took over their domain, it was often a practice to destroy the previous ruler’s temple to let people know who was now boss. Of course the Hindu guys would often replace it with one of their own making, but certain Muslim rulers were also very pragmatic:
    “If the idea of conquest became manifest in the desecration of temples associated with former enemies, what happened once the land and the subjects of those enemies were integrated into an Indo-Muslim state? On this point, the data are quite clear: pragmatism as well as time honoured traditions of both Islamic and Indian statecraft dictated that temples lying within such states be left unmolested. We learn from a Sanskrit inscription, for example, that in 1326, thirteen years after he annexed the northern Deccan to the Tughluq empire, Sultan Muhammad bin Tughluq appointed Muslim officials to repair a Siva temple in Kalyana (in Bidar District), thereby facilitating the resumption of normal worship that had been disrupted by local disturbances.42 According to that sultan’s interpretation of Islamic Law, anybody who paid the poll-tax (jizya) could build temples in territories ruled by Muslims.4 ”

    https://academic.oup.com/jis/article-pdf/11/3/283/1879718/11-3-283.pdf

    One can read his conclusion here, and also visit the link to see a thorough examination of the documented destroyed temples in the appendix:
    “One often hears that between the thirteenth and eighteenth centuries, Indo-Muslim states, driven by a Judaeo-Islamic ‘theology of iconoclasm’, by fanaticism, or by sheer lust for plunder, wantonly and indiscriminately indulged in the desecration of Hindu temples. Such a picture cannot, however, be sustained by evidence from original sources for the period after 1192. Had instances of temple desecration been driven by a ‘theology of iconoclasm’, as some have claimed,70 such a theology would have committed Muslims in India to destroying all temples everywhere, including ordinary village temples, as opposed to the highly selective operation that seems actually to have taken place. Rather, the original data associate instances of temple desecration with the annexation of newly conquered territories held by enemy kings whose domains lay on the path of moving military frontiers. Temple desecrations also occurred when Hindu patrons of prominent temples committed acts of treason or disloyalty to the Indo-Muslim states they served. Otherwise, temples lying within Indo-Muslim sovereign domains, viewed normally as protected state property, were left unmolested.”

    To me, what happened with Spain in the New World was a combination of a couple of things; 1) the periodic penchant among various historic Christian kingdoms to go postal on pagans (see the Baltic Crusades for instance) in order to root it out, 2) being so far away that the ecclesiastical authorities had a difficulty in reigning in the practices of what was essentially governance by a military force.

    set up mosques to which the vast majority of the population would have adhered

    This is not accurate – as Prof. Eaton has pointed out, the place where Muslim power was most dominant, Islam penetrated the least – they were always in the minority where they had power – possibly due to pissing off the locals as invaders:
    “…those regions where the most dramatic Islamization occurred, such as eastern Bengal or western Punjab, lay on the fringes of Indo-Muslim rule, where the ‘sword’ was weakest, and where brute force could have exerted the least influence. In such regions the first accurate census reports put the Muslim population at between 70 and 90 percent of the total, whereas in the heartland of Muslim rule in the upper Gangetic Plain—the domain of the Delhi Fort and the Taj Mahal, where Muslim regimes had ruled the most intensively and for the longest period of time—the Muslim population ranged from only 10 to 15 percent. In other words, in the subcontinent as a whole there is an inverse relationship between the degree of Muslim political penetration and the degree of Islamization. Even within Bengal this principle holds true.”
    The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204-1760 (Univ. CA Press)

    put down a lot of rebellions with a lot of bloodshed

    Big time. Even the Emperor Akbar, who is put up as some tolerant-hippy ruler would not brook rebellion and put it down hard.

    So while I agree with you that Muslims certainly often made a bloody mess of things in India (which was often religiously motivated) and definitely did hold the Hindu population under their thumb* the loss of indigenous culture and heritage was just not on the same scale as what happened in the New World (and in a shorter time frame).

    Peace.

    *Note: Even Mughals like Aurangzeb, who the BJP would love to erase from India’s memory are not so clear cut, one-sided figures:
    “They omit altogether that Aurangzeb consulted with Hindu ascetics on health matters and employed more Hindus in his administration than any prior Mughal ruler by a substantial margin.”

    https://www.sup.org/books/extra/?id=28067&i=Chapter%201.html

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Anon
    , @reiner Tor
  479. Talha says:
    @AP

    No, an objective position would be “Spain, motivated by a mixture of greed and religious zeal, conquered and converted the brutal Aztec Empire, engaging in massacres while doing so. As a result, a primitive society characterized by brutal mass sacrifice of people was replaced by a civilized, more humane, Europeanized Christian one.”

    This sounds like a pretty reasonable assessment actually. And while they destroyed some things, they obviously tried to preserve other things.

    Though I’m not sure about the word “primitive”, but that’s a subjective assessment.

    Peace.

  480. Talha says:
    @Talha

    But I will admit what AP is saying. It’s easy for me to say what I think may have happened if Muslims were in charge, but it’s a toss up. For instance, after the initial forays by the Ghaznavids (who adhered to the Shafi’i school – which was always very antagonistic to polytheists), practically all subsequent rulers followed the Hanafi school.

    Maybe they would have seen the child sacrifices and said – there is no way we can let this kind of a culture endure and specifically applied the Shafi’i opinion of; no jizyah for polytheists – males convert or die, females and children enslaved.

    I cannot honestly say.

    • Replies: @AP
  481. @Hyperborean

    Modern society is fairly Lovecraftian.

    The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom.

  482. Talha says:

    all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy.

    Except for the ones that just got axe therapy to the head…because, well, getting an axe in the head takes the joy out of putting an axe in someone’s head.

    Peace.

  483. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I don’t have time for a long response, and, indeed, I have not yet read your entire comment (which I hope to), but Hindu religion and Indian civilization were vastly more sophisticated than the Mesoamerican equivalent– it was not going down without a fight. By contrast, Mesoamerican political, social, and religious fabrics pretty much fell apart immediately, which they would have done in any case.

    • Replies: @Talha
  484. AP says:
    @Talha

    Thank you for both this comment and the one this has been added to. As you stated in your second paragraph, the over-the-top bloodthirsty nature of Aztec culture (compared to the Hindu culture the Muslims found in India) would probably have provoked a very different response. ISIS might have learned from the Aztecs, 9th, or 16th century Muslims upon encountering them would have been as horrified as were the Spaniards.

  485. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Hindu religion and Indian civilization were vastly more sophisticated than the Mesoamerican equivalent– it was not going down without a fight.

    Agree here and there was also a large degree pragmatic of co-option of the locals (this was true even in the initial Ghaznavid invasions):
    “The position of Hindu generals, soldiers, and scholars at the Ghaznavid court is also significant. Even Mahmud, the iconoclast, had a contingent of Hindu officers and soldiers. He richly rewarded at least one Sanskrit poet, and had Hindu pandits at his court. He also issued coins with Sanskrit inscriptions. The Hindu position seems to have improved greatly in the days of his successor, Masud*. Only fifty days after the death of Mahmud, his son despatched Sewand Rai, a Hindu chief, with a large body of Hindu cavalry in pursuit of the nobles who had espoused the cause of his brother. Sewand Rai died in the ensuing battle, but his selection for this important assignment indicates his position of trust and eminence…contemporary evidence suggests that the Hindu position under the Ghaznavids was very much better than it was to be in the early days of the Delhi Sultanate.”

    http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/ikram/part1_02.html

    (Good thing is historical records exist with much of these details so we can sort things out if we keep a clear-headed approach. As a Muslim, I must admit they contain very embarrassing episodes as well. Muslim historians of the court sometimes recorded the slaughter and plunder of certain Hindu populaces with obvious glee.)

    And there was that huge factor of disease, which – as was mentioned before – did a tremendous amount of unintentional damage to the local populace.

    At the end of the day, we can talk about this as outside observers, casual perusing history – but it’s the opinion of the locals that count the most. They are the true heirs of that history. Do they feel it was worth it to become Christian, despite some of the excesses that happened? Or would they rather reverse time and be able to continue on with their pagan history as if the Spanish never arrived? Or are they glad to be Christian, but still pissed off at what the Spaniards did?

    I have a coworker from India (Malabar coastline) that is literally in the next door office. He always talks positively about the Mughals when the subject come up. Of course, his people were in the Southern part of India that the Mughals never got to…

    Peace.

    *Note: This is when things shift away from the Shafi’i school:
    “In jurispriudence, the early Ghaznavids were Shafi’i, but Hanafism gained ascendancy by Mas’ud’s time.”
    Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia

    • Replies: @Anon
  486. Talha says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Just from Russian players…or everyone??!!

    Uh, because…wow…

    Peace.

  487. @Daniel Chieh

    Thanks for the rec.

    I actually finished the first Eisenhorn book (Xenos) a couple of weeks back.

  488. iffen says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    They never invented the axle

    Quite the disadvantage, they didn’t even have the rack for everyday use like their “civilized” conquerors.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  489. @LatW

    That said, some families are literally saying – we’ll have more, just give us the daycare!

    In our recent election, both parties aimed to reduce the cost of Ontario’s ridiculously expensive daycare (about 1000 dollars a month). Conservatives promised to create a 75% refundable tax credit for it and liberals to make it free. Conservatives won because liberals had governed badly over the last term. We’ll see what changes now. At least the quality of local daycare is high and worth the price. Compared to a post-Soviet sadik I went to, where we were mostly left without attention and ate disgusting food, it’s like a 5-star hotel for toddlers. They have a chef who cooks three meals a day from various national cuisines – too bad the kids probably won’t remember any of it when they grow up! Still, everyone agrees such a price is too much of a burden on the parents and society must help with it. There’s quite an envy for Europe or Quebec’s child care systems here.

    • Replies: @LatW
  490. @iffen

    Think of all of the additional tortures that they could have done! No wonder they fell into disfavor with the Chaos Gods.

  491. DFH says:
    @LatW

    I think the biggest reason for the low TFR in the West is waiting so late to have children. Average age of first motherhood in Britain is 28.6. The reason for this seems to be unthinking compliance with social norms about ‘having a career’, at least as much as hedonism (the most hedonistic segment of society, the underclass, tend to have children earlier of course and the Japanese have never struck me as a very hedonistic society) . It is incredible how little (in my experience) even otherwise intelligent and sensible women under 30 have thought about this aspect of their life.
    It is a shame if something as horrible as daycare has to be endorsed to raise the birth rate, but I suppose it’s better than extinction.

    Some kind of a wealth transfer from older to younger males would be a good idea (not in a literal sense, but something to help the young and middle generation (parents of younger children)).

    What effect did the family grant have in Poland?

  492. iffen says:
    @Talha

    It’s the self-righteous and sanctimonious attitude that gags me. Modern day examples of slogging through and implementing the white man’s burden of “correcting” other cultures are all around us in disaster after disaster.

    With regard to this commenter, if the argument is made that Russia needs to “civilize” Ukrainian peasants then he will have no legitimate defense.

    In the instance of the Conquistadors and the Aztecs, if the Aztecs had convinced them that human sacrifice was required to “get the gold” then the response would have been, “Here, use this sword, it works much better than obsidian.”

    How many people will be “sacrificed” on the highways during the next 24 hours so that the rest of us may commute to our workplaces and shopping paradises?

  493. AP says:

    It’s the self-righteous and sanctimonious attitude that gags me.

    The anti-Christian bigot think it is “self-righteous and sanctimonious” to observe that Aztec culture was spectacularly brutal and evil and that the influence of Spain and Christianity has made Mexico a much more humane and better place. It’s “self-righteous and sanctimonious’”to think a fairly peaceful place of literate people going to baroque cathedrals is a vast improvement over illiterate peasantry being harvested for live heart removal in blood-soaked temples.

    if the argument is made that Russia needs to “civilize” Ukrainian peasants then he will have no legitimate defense.

    Russia isn’t more civilized than Ukraine.

    OTOH conservative Catholic Hapsburg influence was wonderful for western Ukraine.

    How many people will be “sacrificed” on the highways during the next 24 hours so that the rest of us may commute to our workplaces and shopping paradises

    That’s totally equivalent.

  494. @Guillaume Tell

    I am closer to 30 than 40, but I have an older brother who will turn 40 this year. He unfortunately married a Greek woman, so the ethnocultural confusion continues…

    If one is a Roman Catholic and does wish to depart mother church or whatever, seems like the obvious thing to do is to consider the current pope an antipope.

    In my intolerant bigotry that I am quite proud of I bash romish papists with relish, but if I am to be objective and honest it seems like Martin Luther did us all a lot of harm.

    I personally intermittently fast (16 hours) all days other than lifting days, and I fast more deeply (2 days) once a month. Complete fasts mind you. Not for religion, but for health.

    The IQ debate I would not say is vacuous, but there is a reason that we have an average IQ that is not that high. Before I continue with this, I want to make clear I am in no way being boastful. I and many other men in my family are very highly intelligent, and I for instance got a perfect SAT (American college admissions) score with no preparation of any kind.

    This is a double-edged sword. When you are intelligent, you apply intelligence to domains inappropriately. And you have trouble relating to ordinary people, especially the women who are needed to propagate the race. Fortunately I discovered the “Game” community in my early 20s, and since then my social life has been good.

    I do still occasionally run into traps. For instance recently I was having lunch with all the women who work for me, and the subject of pitbulls came up. One girl said that it’s, “All in how you raise them.” I thought she was joking, and then proudly described the many efforts I’ve made to have pitbulls banned. Turns out she owns a pitbull…wooops. Fortunately she works for me and not the other way around.

    As for friendship, the internet allows us to meet like-minded people. I will be in France in September and would be delighted to meet you if possible. You can meet my father as well if you like, and unlike me he speaks French.

    Perhaps if we’re lucky Karlin can join us and bring his half-French friend Craig Willy.

    And I guarantee you will all love my father. He’s like me, only more alpha.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  495. Dmitry says:
    @Anon

    As much to the point, if Dmitry doesn’t think the Aztecs were evil, why does he think the Spanish were evil? As he seems to speak from a general viewpoint of dialectical materialism, why does he think anybody is evil?

    Where did I write anything about evil. Although if you will use this concept of evil – the proposal we should justify people going on expedition to do evil in other countries, motivated by a desire for gold (not only to take out of the country and send to finance their nation, but to finance their own personal wealth) – on the basis that there was also already existing evil in those other countries, and in the civilizations thereby destroyed. It is not convincing to me.

    AP’s views on this topic are very unusual, but he has a right to the opinion. I will prefer to read history books/ watch documentaries, rather than persuade any other people to my view which arises intuitively and not necessarily in an objective way either.

    • Replies: @Anon
  496. Bliss says:

    For the information of all you Eurocentric megalomaniacs civilization in Central America predates civilization in Northern Europe by at least 1500 years. And their civilization was self-created unlike the celts and germanics of Northern Europe who had to be forcibly civilized by the Romans. They had writing, math, astronomy, calendars, architecture, sculpture, painting etc at a time when nordics were still primitive, human-sacrificing savages living in bogs and forests.

    Show anything comparable to the following from pre-Roman Northern Europe:

    • Replies: @AP
  497. AP says:
    @Bliss

    For the information of all you Eurocentric megalomaniacs civilization in Central America predates civilization in Northern Europe by at least 1500 years

    Which makes the slow progress rather sad. By the time the Spaniards got there, the natives were still about as advanced as the Sumerians had been.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  498. Bliss says:
    @AP

    Which makes the slow progress rather sad. By the time the Spaniards got there, the natives were still about as advanced as the Sumerians had been.

    Northern Europe could never reach the level of the Sumerian “blackheads” or the Olmecs and Mayas.

    They had to be civilized (and christianized) by the Romans. What Central Americans accomplished on their own the nordics never could despite being in contact with more advanced civilizations for centuries.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @AP
  499. @Bliss

    What Central Americans accomplished on their own the nordics

    Are you sure they did it on their own? They could have had help from the ancient black Egyptians. It’s a striking parallel that they also had pyramids (what are the chances for such a coincidence?), and that giant Olmec head looks pretty Nubian to me.

    • Agree: Bliss
  500. Bliss says:
    @AP

    Given the conservative estimate of 20,000 victims a year, 200,000 in ten years, 2 million in a hundred years, we’d be talking several millions of victims when – or if – they decided to stop………“Archaeologists have found the remains of at least 42 children sacrificed to Tlaloc at the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan.

    You’d think archaeologists would have found more remains if the numbers of sacrifices were in the millions over the centuries.

    It was good that Christianity ended human sacrifice in Central America. Just as it was good that it forced the forest dwelling primitives of Northern Europe to give up their ritual cannibalism and human sacrifices.

    But what was the religious and moral justification for the atrocities of the conquistadors towards the common folks of the New World? Which began with the genocide of the native Tainos in the Caribbean with Columbus himself. And continued with the killings of tens of thousands of native Peruvians in the 20th century. You could say that the Tainos and Peruvians were sacrificed to the Spanish gods of gold and rubber respectively. Right?

  501. LatW says:
    @Toronto Russian

    Sorry to hear about your sadik, I went to a nice Latvian sadik in the 1980s (it was run by a bunch of Latvian women). We had really nice walks in the pine forest and hung out on the beach, the food was not bad (white bread with lots of butter, oatmeal or manna with jam, of course, lots of buckwheat, milk, buttermilk/kefir), we had nice little beds with white sheets, lots of attention (the teacher played the piano and made us sing along), drawing, dancing. All the children were very well behaved.

    But there is a sadik shortage these days, because everyone moved to the city. Thankfully, some families are moving out now. There are really good private ones, too, the latest rave is the eco-sadiks – and those are of very, very high quality, with organic food, located near meadows, it is more of a community setting, professional folk musicians teach music lessons, there are young guys who work there, too (which is important for the little boys – of course, the boys should be encouraged to participate in athletic or paramilitary camps past the age of 12, I hope they develop those, too). Such a sadik is well worth paying for.

    There are some nice ones in North America, too, in the areas outside of big cities, but, as you say, you have to pay a premium for real quality and, given other expenses these days, you essentially need two professional incomes for that (or move to the farm yourself).

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian
  502. LatW says:

    I see that human sacrifice was brought up with regards to the ancient Celts – AFAIK, the human sacrifice and divination became more common later – when the Druids realized they were going to be decimated by the Romans.

    Merry Solstice.

  503. AP says:
    @Bliss

    Northern Europe could never reach the level of the Sumerian “blackheads” or the Olmecs and Mayas.

    Probably. OTOH, northern European savages were more advanced than North American ones.

  504. Bliss says:

    Belief in human sacrifice was widespread. And not just among religions that are now extinct. It is found in the Vedas, the holiest scripture of Hinduism. It is the core belief of Christianity.

    The Phoenicians of the Levant/Mediterranean were notorious child sacrificers. Abraham probably got the idea of sacrificing his only child from the Phoenicians whose culture was dominant in that region at that time. This aborted child sacrifice is commemorated in the main Muslim Holy Day. Except that the son is not Isaac as in the Bible, but Ishmael, Abraham’s son from his Egyptian slave girl.

  505. Bliss says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    In contrast, no African civilization independently developed literacy.

    No excuse in the internet age for such ignorance:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs

    Egyptian hieroglyphs (/ˈhaɪrəˌɡlɪf, -roʊ-/[2][3]) were the formal writing system used in Ancient Egypt. It combined logographic, syllabic and alphabetic elements, with a total of some 1,000 distinct characters.[4][5] Cursive hieroglyphs were used for religious literature on papyrus and wood. The later hieratic and demotic Egyptian scripts were derived from hieroglyphic writing; Meroitic was a late derivation from demotic.

    Hieroglyphs emerged from the preliterate artistic traditions of Egypt…..Proto-hieroglyphic symbol systems develop in the second half of the 4th millennium BC, such as the clay labels of a Predynastic ruler called “Scorpion I” (Naqada IIIA period, c. 33rd century BC) recovered at Abydos (modern Umm el-Qa’ab) in 1998 or the Narmer Palette (c. 31st century BC).[1] The first full sentence written in hieroglyphs so far discovered was found on a seal impression found in the tomb of Seth-Peribsen at Umm el-Qa’ab, which dates from the Second Dynasty (28th or 27th century BC). There are around 800 hieroglyphs dating back to the Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom and New Kingdom Eras. By the Greco-Roman period, there are more than 5,000.[4]

  506. @German_reader

    Some people don’t get jokes.

    The pyramid form requires relatively low levels of technology compared to, say, a gothic cathedral. So a society without the wheel (or rather, as has been pointed out, the axle), or iron, or any other developed technology, could still build huge and impressive pyramids.

  507. @Anatoly Karlin

    Technological progress also seems to have happened faster in the Americas after corn was domesticated (which was a harder, much longer process than wheat).

    But then it gave higher yields, as far as I know.

    There were also no horse-riding nomads to disrupt development. Most people were almost vegetarians (and cannibals) because there were no domesticated animals, so relative to the technological levels, higher population densities became possible.

    Human sacrifice was probably also a function of primitive savages suddenly achieving relatively high levels of organization and population density. Primitive savages everywhere were, well, primitive savages, cannibalism was widespread in Europe, for example. But they only had small-scale organizations, so even though Europeans a few tens of millennia ago were all cannibals, they didn’t have the organization to capture and kill so many slaves.

    There is the explanation that a lack of domesticated animals meant that human meat was an important part of elite diets (while the rest of the population suffered from a dearth of vital amino acids). I just checked Wikipedia, and didn’t find the counter-arguments terribly convincing. Yes, people could eat salamanders, but it’s difficult to extract a lot of meat from them, while human meat is much easier to consume.

    So I think human sacrifice would’ve stayed much longer, relative to development levels. And of course while neither cannibalism nor human sacrifice was widespread in ancient Rome, the gladiatorial games as spectacles don’t appear much more civilized to me. I understand that, contrary to popular belief, gladiators weren’t always killed, but they were killed often enough.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Mitleser
  508. @Talha

    language being rooted out

    Due to a lack of horses or wheels, Mesoamerican Indians had many small ethnic groups speaking diverse languages, which was not practical for a large-scale organized state.

    But the language of the Aztecs, Nahuatl, was actually spread by the Spanish, who used it as the official language of New Spain until the end of the 17th century.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuatl#Colonial_period

    In 1570, King Philip II of Spain decreed that Nahuatl should become the official language of the colonies of New Spain in order to facilitate communication between the Spanish and natives of the colonies.[53] This led to Spanish missionaries teaching Nahuatl to Indians living as far south as Honduras and El Salvador. During the 16th and 17th centuries, Classical Nahuatl was used as a literary language, and a large corpus of texts from that period exists today. They include histories, chronicles, poetry, theatrical works, Christian canonical works, ethnographic descriptions, and administrative documents. The Spanish permitted a great deal of autonomy in the local administration of indigenous towns during this period, and in many Nahuatl-speaking towns the language was the de facto administrative language both in writing and speech. A large body of Nahuatl literature was composed during this period, including the Florentine Codex, a twelve-volume compendium of Aztec culture compiled by Franciscan Bernardino de Sahagún; Crónica Mexicayotl, a chronicle of the royal lineage of Tenochtitlan by Fernando Alvarado Tezozómoc; Cantares Mexicanos, a collection of songs in Nahuatl; a Nahuatl-Spanish/Spanish-Nahuatl dictionary compiled by Alonso de Molina; and the Huei tlamahuiçoltica, a description in Nahuatl of the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe.[54]

    Grammars and dictionaries of indigenous languages were composed throughout the colonial period, but their quality was highest in the initial period.[55] The friars found that learning all the indigenous languages was impossible in practice, so they concentrated on Nahuatl. For a time, the linguistic situation in Mesoamerica remained relatively stable, but in 1696, Charles II of Spain issued a decree banning the use of any language other than Spanish throughout the Spanish Empire. In 1770, another decree, calling for the elimination of the indigenous languages, did away with Classical Nahuatl as a literary language.[53] Until Mexican Independence in 1821, the Spanish courts admitted Nahuatl testimony and documentation as evidence in lawsuits, with court translators rendering it in Spanish.[56]

    So “rooting out the language” was not something the Spanish conquerors did, at least not initially. One of the reasons they managed to spread Spanish so easily by the 18th century was that Spanish had much higher prestige.

    By the way, Talha, didn’t the Arab conquest also “root out” local languages like Coptic or Aramaic?

    • Replies: @Talha
  509. @reiner Tor

    cannibalism was widespread in Europe

    Do we actually know that? The Celts and Germanics certainly occasionally sacrificed people, but the evidence isn’t easy to interpret (are those corpses found in bogs necessarily sacrificial victims? Or could they just have been normal murder victims, or executed criminals?) and I can’t recall having heard of widespread cannibalism among them. Or are you thinking of even earlier times?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  510. @German_reader

    Even earlier times.

    Cannibalism was widespread before agriculture.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  511. @German_reader

    Jokes aside, the Olmec coonheads are interesting. They genuinely suggest contact with negroes, though there’s no known mechanism as to how that could have happened. When the Spanish showed up the Amerinds were shocked by their ships.

    But did their ancestors have ships and forget how to build them?

    Civilization, even in the Americas, is very old. A lot has happened that has been completely forgotten.

  512. @reiner Tor

    I know they’ve found some bones from the Neolithic with clear signs of cannibalism, so it might well be true.
    Your explanation that this wasn’t done just for ritualistic reasons, but for supplementing one’s diet with meat is interesting. I suppose that’s one of those issues where the established standard explanation among anthropologists and the like might not be terribly convincing if looked at closely.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  513. Mitleser says:
    @reiner Tor

    Most people were almost vegetarians (and cannibals) because there were no domesticated animals

    Hernan Cortez remarked in 1519 when he arrived in the city of Tenochtitlan seeing “small gelded dogs which they breed for eating”. Other Spanish sources site Aztec feasts serving 80-100 turkeys and 20-40 dogs, though the favorite meat of the Aztecs was wild deer.

    https://www.quora.com/What-Native-American-groups-traditionally-ate-dog-and-does-this-tradition-continue-today?share=1

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  514. Talha says:
    @reiner Tor

    Well, I was speaking about the entire situation including the bans. Also including the destruction of much of the original records in the original codices, but they did preserve some of course. If I recall, the same priest who initially tried his best to destroy Mayan language that eventually felt bad and preserved it.

    There was no parallel effort after the Muslim conquests of destruction or bans. The administration of the empire was in local languages through dhimmi representatives and government employees. All one of the later Abassid or Ummayad (I forgot which one) caliphs did was change the language used in administration of the empire so anyone seeking a government job also needed to be fluent in Arabic (instead of the various languages like Syriac, Greek, Persian, Etc. that were previously used to keep records). And of course the Abbasids started the initiative of the massive translation of classical Greek works into Arabic which led to a revival of math, medicine and science in the region.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  515. Mitleser says:

    White America has finally joined their European brothers.

    WASHINGTON, June 21 (Xinhua) — The non-Hispanic white population in the United States is aging rapidly and shrank for the first time between 2015 and 2016, according to new data released Thursday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

    The decrease in the overall white population is a downward revision of the 2015-2016 data released last year. Between 2016 and 2017, the U.S. non-Hispanic white population declined about 0.02 percent, to 197.8 million people.

    The reasons are varied, demographers said, citing the facts that more Americans are now deciding to have children at a later age, the baby boomer generation is moving toward retirement, and the flow of European immigrants is ebbing.

    The average non-Hispanic white American is 43.5 years old while the average Hispanic American is 29.3 years old, the data show. The median age of U.S. residents crept up to 38 last year.

    There are fewer white women in their prime childbearing years as a share of the overall population than ever before, and more minorities in childbearing years than ever before, The Hill reported.

    According to the data, the Hispanic population rose 2.1 percent to 58.9 million in the middle of 2017, while the African American population rose 1.2 percent to 47.4 million. There are 22.2 million Asian Americans currently.

    Overall, the U.S. population growth has slowed since 1992, Pew researchers have found.

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-06/21/c_137271646.htm

  516. @Talha

    And of course Abdul Malik bin Marwan started the initiative of the massive translation of classical Greek works into Arabic which led to a revival of math, medicine and science in the region.

    As far as I know, the Muslims didn’t care about Greek historiography or literature though, they just were interested in extracting philosophical and technical knowledge that could be adapted for Islamic purposes. And of course they didn’t care about the preservation of the original texts at all. Even if there wasn’t a deliberate effort at destruction, the Islamic conquests must have led to the eventual loss of many ancient texts that might otherwise have been preserved (which is why the claims of Western Islamophiles that the Islamic world preserved the ancient Greek heritage for us have always struck me as nonsensical, Byzantium would certainly have done a better job of that).

    If I recall, the same priest who initially tried his best to destroy Mayan language that eventually felt bad and preserved it.

    I think it was the other way round, Diego de Landa studied Maya customs and their language for purposes of evangelization and wrote a useful ethnographic work about that, but eventually he decided that Maya codices needed to be destroyed for his efforts to succeed. A rather ambivalent figure.

    • Replies: @Talha
  517. @German_reader

    I think they had ritualistic reasons, too, but it was probably way easier to spread and way harder to restrict than in Eurasia.

    So my explanation is not that “they needed the proteins and so they ate humans” but rather that banishing or even restricting human sacrifice faced more considerable headwinds than elsewhere, because the elites liked the cannibalism and it was more difficult to convince them to abandon it in the absence of alternatives like pork, beef, mutton, etc.

  518. @Mitleser

    Wild deer would have been in even shorter supply than human flesh. The breeds of vegetarian dogs weren’t preserved (such dogs were bred by some Polynesians), unlike turkey, which tells you something about the tastefulness of this kind of dog meat. Human flesh reportedly tastes like pork.

    Now, some people just don’t get it why it’s easier to abandon cannibalism if you have identical tasting pork, than if the only alternatives are

    - insects
    - salamanders and other amphibians
    - seefood
    - fish
    - turkey
    - dog meat
    - very rarely wild deer

    Yes, it’s possible to abstain from cannibalism even under such circumstances (I would certainly do so), but I think my point stands.

  519. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    As far as I know, the Muslims didn’t care about Greek historiography or literature though, they just were interested in extracting philosophical and technical knowledge that could be adapted for Islamic purposes.

    Correct. They were interested mostly in Greek science, maths, works on logic, astronomy, medicine (big time) and to a degree philosophy. I don’t think any of them cared much about preserving the Ilyiad or Euripides whatever. They had plenty of those epics from local Persian and Sumerian history around anyway if they were interested in that.

    the Islamic conquests must have led to the eventual loss of many ancient texts that might otherwise have been preserved

    Few things on this note:
    1) You can thank the Mongols for active destruction in that region.
    2) It’s not the responsibility of the Muslims to preserve texts of other traditions – the dhimmi contract contains no such clause; we did a heck of a job preserving our stuff, other people can preserve their stuff if they think it is important (that’s why people had their own millets and local administrations) – as long as Muslims didn’t actively destroy other people’s language, texts, records then we have no further obligation. The change of some local Christian denominations’ liturgy to Arabic from their original language was a choice they made.
    3) Greek was also a non-native language of imperial administration.

    Byzantium would certainly have done a better job of that

    They did actually, which is why the Renaissance happened partially as a result of migrations of Greek-speakers westward after the loss of Constantinople. But some of the original exposure to the more Western lands came through Andalusia a few centuries earlier – this was in the realm of science, math, logic, etc. – not the poetry and plays and epics that came later.

    I think it was the other way round

    I don’t think so…

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Diego-de-Landa

    “After realizing the error of his ways, de Landa decided to write a book on Mayan history, called Relación de las cosas de Yucatán in 1566. After destroying much of the Mayan language and culture, de Landa’s choice of chronicling the civilization is odd. It can be noted that de Landa actually felt remorse later for the way he treated the Mayan people while he was investigating their outlawed religious practices, and felt this was a way to correct his errors. The book was important in helping to decode the hieroglyphics that were written all over Mayan sites and in the discovered texts and artwork, because it provided the full Mayan alphabet as well as ways to sound out the words phonetically.”

    http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp264-ss13/2013/04/25/diego-de-landa/

    Peace.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  520. @reiner Tor

    The breeds of vegetarian dogs weren’t preserved

    Poor dogs.

    Yes, it’s possible to abstain from cannibalism even under such circumstances (I would certainly do so), but I think my point stands.

    Bring it on. Tasting the flesh of your enemies sounds like a source of incredible power. Perhaps even better than staring directly into the sun.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Mitleser
    , @Talha
  521. @Thorfinnsson

    My enemies are poisonous.

    Anyway, my point was simply that Mesoamericans needed cannibalism more than Eurasians, and probably would’ve found it harder to abandon it. It didn’t matter once European animals were introduced.

  522. Mitleser says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Does Bronze Age Mindset lead us inexorably to cannibalism?

  523. • Replies: @DFH
  524. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor

    Yes, it’s possible to abstain from cannibalism even under such circumstances (I would certainly do so)

    Apparently some of the Conquistadors partook of mystery meat stew a couple of times.

  525. DFH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    You’d think that with so much money, he would be able to afford a more flattering dress for his wife

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  526. Interesting article. The Mesoamericans captured some Spaniards with some local allies, including women and children, and they sacrificed and ate them, including the horses. The only ones not eaten were the pigs, who were just killed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/10/conquistadors-sacrificed-eaten-aztec-acolhuas

    There’s a lot of hand-waving about how we cannot be sure if each of them was eaten or if this was a widespread practice (I mean, how did they even conceive of the idea if they had never done that before? or if it was only done on extremely special occasions in leap years?), but I think it’s pretty solid evidence that it was a widespread practice and that those killed were usually eaten. (As is usual practice with all kinds of sacrifice, including animal sacrifice. The deities were similar to citizens of communist countries: the latter drank French cognac through their elected representatives, while the former ate and drank the sacrificial foods and drinks through their priests and worshippers.)

  527. @Talha

    Destroying the codices and other artifacts of their culture was bad, but as AP has pointed out, their religion truly had horrible elements. What I read is that despite a strict ban by the Spaniards, human sacrifice kept happening here and there for decades and perhaps centuries. Interestingly there are allegations of human sacrifice for the strange and morbid Santa Muerte folk saint by members of its cult. Such things must have been happening at a much higher frequency while Diego de Landa was still alive. Now of course de Landa was worried about all manifestations of their religious practices, not just human sacrifice, but wouldn’t you worry if instead of Muslim immigrants, your town would be full of people practicing a cult of Tlaloc, and it was well-known that as little as a few decades ago their priests were sacrificing children for Tlaloc?

    Now, if you were an official responsible for the well-being of an indigenous population, and such a crazy cult was claiming victims among said population (or there were persistent rumors of some humans being sacrificed here and there), what would you do? Probably destroying the documents and idols of the crazy cult was not the best idea, but is it possible that they reduced the incidence of human sacrifice? I don’t think it’s impossible that some Mayans might have recognized superiority of Christianity for the logical reason that their deities were powerless in the face of Christian persecution. And even if that was not the case, it might have seemed logical to de Landa.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @German_reader
    , @Talha
  528. @reiner Tor

    Aren’t there fishing cultures in the world who traditionally got a huge quantity of their protein from fish?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @reiner Tor
  529. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Where did I write anything about evil.

    Fortunately Mr. Unz has enabled me to find that out fairly easily. It seems to be a not uncommon topic with you. Which suggests, much as I hate to channel AaronB, that you are more spiritually normal and healthy than you like to think.

  530. Mitleser says:

    France is finished

    Time to dance

  531. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    At the end of the day, we can talk about this as outside observers, casual perusing history – but it’s the opinion of the locals that count the most. They are the true heirs of that history. Do they feel it was worth it to become Christian, despite some of the excesses that happened? Or would they rather reverse time and be able to continue on with their pagan history as if the Spanish never arrived? Or are they glad to be Christian, but still pissed off at what the Spaniards did?

    Sure. The thing is that this changes with political headwinds, and as a close relative of a sociologist interested in colonial and post-colonial conditions I can say the same about the Mughals, or about the British. My grandfather, for instance, was a considerable Anglophile, to the extent of developing a taste for British food (ugh!), and his wife still keeps pictures of the (now-deceased) Queen Mother, whereas his children were most decidedly not.

    I think most Mexicans are glad to be Christian for the simple reason that if they weren’t, they wouldn’t be (and they wouldn’t have fought wars against the socialist government trying to loot and destroy the Church). As for anti-Spanish opinion– hmmm. I don’t know many Mexicans and those I do know tend to be more Spanish-descended (or Scottish-descended in one case, even), but they were American-raised and tend to have the general standard modern American view of history.

  532. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Yes, and there still are. Getting a significant quantity of proteins from other human beings doesn’t seem to make much sense to me, food-pyramid-wise, anyway.

    edit: unless you have a relatively small warrior caste which “farms” the rest of the population? But I don’t think that was how historical cannibalism worked.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  533. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor

    Yes, I did some research on this topic at some time in the past when it came up on this site (and posted the results), and there were reports at the time of children being kidnapped and sacrificed (often crucified, in a sort of syncretism of horror).

    Talha’s second link, msu.edu, is hopelessly biased, as I pointed out at the time:
    realizing the error of his ways, lol, it sounds like we may have found regular poster Corvinus in real life.

    Fr. de Landa was certainly excessive, but a) the Spanish put him on trial for it, though b) he was acquitted, and it’s not like excess on the part of magistrates is a uniquely Spanish problem.

    • Replies: @Talha
  534. @reiner Tor

    Sure, Diego de Landa certainly had understandable reasons to feel repelled by the religion of the Maya and to act like he did. I still think he shouldn’t have destroyed those codices, but maybe just confiscated them so they could later be studied. And however horrible the religion of the Maya may have been, their writing system was a genuine achievement, so a policy that led to it being forgotten (until its decipherment in the mid-20th century) seems like major cultural vandalism to me. But that judgement may of course be somewhat anachronistical and be too influenced by a modern point of view.

  535. Talha says:
    @Anon

    You’re right, I do remember that discussion. I do believe the person is likely biased, but they seem to have the timeline right as far as order of events.

    Again, as I mentioned – a good part of the problem was that the Church had a difficult time reigning in some of the excesses. If I remember, didn’t one of the local military guys go rogue and take over and kill a governor when they tried to clamp down on slavery in that area?

    Trust me, I’m not an anti-Catholic guy*, I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church. One of my spiritual teachers from Pakistan speaks fondly of his years in a Catholic school. I try to look at these things in a historical manner and let the chips fall where they may.

    Peace.

    *Note: Unless people say; well, you consider Catholic doctrine to be faulty so you are anti-Catholic. Yeah – Ok – if those are the parameters, then guilty as charged – but that seems a wee bit hypersensitive.

    • Replies: @Anon
  536. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Trust me, I’m not an anti-Catholic guy

    I don’t think you are; I was talking about the author in that link (I don’t know exactly what set of his biases, but something sure did). I know a number of academics in “soft” fields (mainly sociology and anthropology) and they are all biased in some way or another. Mostly a similar way, it has to be said*. Sometimes it helps their work (by motivating them) and sometimes it impedes.

    *I do know of one Ph.D. candidate who was turned down for a certain program because he was a Christian (of some Protestant kind or other). I heard this at second hand from my relative aforementioned, who got it from the guy who turned him down.

    Now– am I anti-Muslim? I don’t know, it never occurred to me to ask. I really have no idea.

    • Replies: @Talha
  537. @Mitleser

    Are those black homos with Macron or what?
    Things seem to be escalating between Macron and the Italians as well since he made some hyper-arrogant comments about Italy’s refusal to take in “refugee” boats. Good, at least there seems to be some kind of political movement now. Much will of course depend on how the situation in Germany plays out. I don’t trust the CSU, but this time they actually seem to be somewhat serious. Maybe they’ve really lost patience with Merkel.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  538. @Daniel Chieh

    It’s possible, of course. Though for example Polynesians often resorted to cannibalism anyway, especially because fisheries can be overharvested.

    But I never wrote it was impossible, only that there were some headwinds to abolishing it.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  539. @Anon

    unless you have a relatively small warrior caste which “farms” the rest of the population? But I don’t think that was how historical cannibalism worked.

    Well, that’s how it worked with the Aztecs.

    And they didn’t farm the population, only supplemented their diet with human flesh.

  540. Talha says:
    @reiner Tor

    Destroying the codices and other artifacts of their culture was bad

    I believe that’s all I’m (and maybe others) getting at here; the problem may have been handled excessively and can’t be undone unfortunately. For me, there are the ends and the means and both need to be taken into account.

    I don’t think it’s impossible that some Mayans might have recognized superiority of Christianity for the logical reason that their deities were powerless in the face of Christian persecution.

    Sure – polytheism in general always seems to give way to monotheism. It wasn’t just this, I believe they actually also found it to be a superior religion and culture. I certainly don’t have a problem that most of South America is Christian – it is better than polytheism.

    Muslims tended not to care about the inner workings of other religions or cults, reading into their doctrines or anything else (other than to perhaps refute them). The deal was simple; military-age males pay jizyah, don’t revolt, don’t proselytize and we’re good. I have no doubts they would have put a stop to human sacrifice though.

    Again, this is all speculation. I don’t know if Muslims ever came across something that heinous, and if they had, what they would have done. Quite possible they would have gone postal (Shafi’i style) on it and quite possible they would have just stopped that practice and left the culture alone otherwise. If anything, there may have been something like this in West Africa in localized communities, but nothing on the scale of Aztec or Mayan society. This kind of stuff still happens in parts of Africa, but seems isolated to the Southeast and Central areas:

    http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-malawi-albinos-hunted-2017-story.html

    Peace.

  541. @reiner Tor

    I did not know about Polynesian cannibalism, interesting. Do you know of any books on this?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @German_reader
  542. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I just happened to come upon an interesting article: http://apdl.kcc.hawaii.edu/oahu/stories/waialua/killing.htm which, I should mention, as I just pointed out of another article on a different topic, is clearly biased, but still interesting reading.

    • Replies: @Talha
  543. Talha says:
    @Anon

    I know a number of academics in “soft” fields (mainly sociology and anthropology) and they are all biased in some way or another.

    Yeah, I have to admit this – it is tough to sometimes have to wade through the nonsense to get to the good stuff in their research. I generally like historians though and I’ve seen a tendency where they do challenge each other. Military historians are the best, they just say it like it is – they’ve read way too much to be bothered by the crazy parts of human history.

    Now– am I anti-Muslim?

    Nah – you’re just pro-Christianity. :)

    People get too sensitive about these things sometimes. Like certain SJW Muslims who shout “Islamophobe” for anyone that has a problem with Islamic doctrine whether legitimate or not. That pisses me off, you can’t have a normal discussion.

    Peace.

  544. Talha says:
    @Anon

    I know in places like Papua New Ginuea, certain tribes eat their dead relatives. They have a feast in honor of the dead and invite all of the relatives to come and eat.

    I guess from their perspective, they are honoring the person by allowing them to become one with them or perhaps, it’s better that humans consume them than worms.

    Peace.

  545. @DFH

    You’d think he’d be able to afford a better wife.

    She’s a Chinese 5 and not even attracted to him.

    Dude is an absolute joke. It seems like he won’t run in 2020 now, but if he does Trump should bust out the Winkelvoss twins to insult Suckerberg at his rallies.

  546. @German_reader

    Thanks. I knew that the Maori practiced ritual cannibalism, interesting to see if it extended to an ecological function.

  547. @German_reader

    Merkel’s toast.

    https://www.infowars.com/almost-half-of-germans-want-merkel-to-resign-poll-shows/

    Not only is Seehofer serious, but once in power he’ll feel emboldened for two reasons:

    • His mandate will be based on clamping down on the rapefugees

    • Salvini and Kurz will empower him in a way the Visegrad group can’t

    Salvini also won’t accept the Dublin Convention being followed to the letter, which means a possible Pan-European solution.

    Or perhaps at least a German-Italian…Axis. :)

    • Replies: @German_reader
  548. @Thorfinnsson

    Merkel’s toast.

    I’m not convinced about that at all. There are some real nightmare scenarios like Merkel taking the Greens into government. Or like the CSU losing so badly in the state election in fall that they’ll enter a coalition with the Bavarian Social Democrats or even the Greens.
    One should never underestimate Merkel. That woman is pretty stupid and incompetent in many ways, but she’s been masterful in acquiring and retaining power. Most of the media is still on her side, and the refugees-welcome segment of the population (far from negligible, and the entire identity of those people is linked to the open borders project, they will never admit they’ve been wrong) will also support her.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  549. @Mitleser

    Reuters reports him as saying Macron desires to reign as a “Jupiterian” president – “a remote, dignified figure, like the Roman god of gods, who weighs his rare pronouncements carefully”.

    Jupiterian legacy incoming.

  550. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    Seconded.

    I won’t believe that Merkel’s political career is finished until she resigns or is replaced.
    This woman has still too many political ally in her party and the Gree