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Why I am Not Celebrating Victory Day
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The idea that the pomp and pageantry around the annual festivities commemorating Victory in the Great Patriotic War constitute a sort of foundational myth of the Russian state is a popular one.

There are any number of articles on the Internet making this argument, mostly from the last few years, though come to think of it, I was writing very similar things back in 2010:

The Kremlin is faced with a dilemma in reconciling Stalin with Victory. Promoting the Victory isn’t only feelgood propaganda. It is very useful. It stokes the social cohesion that Russia needs to consolidate itself, and to actualize her shift towards sobornost’ (the catch-all term for a deep sense of internal peace and unity between races, religions, sexes, etc, within a society). It also creates powerful bonds with other peoples of the erstwhile USSR, buttressing the Kremlin’s drive to (re)gather the Russian lands. For this reason, under Putin, Russia has devoted lavish attention to the public spectacle of Victory. The Victory parades in Moscow become ever more impressive, – indeed, imperial – with every passing year. Under the initiative of Kremlin-affiliated youth movements, the Ribbon of Saint George was popularized as a symbol of Victory since 2005. This harkens back to the Medal For the Victory Over Germany, which was awarded after the war to all the soldiers, officers and partisans who directly participated in live combat actions against the European Axis. A medal dominated by Stalin’s visage.

Since then, the trend has, if anything, accelerated, with the grassroots emergence of the Immortal Regiments marches, a much more humane and introspective ritual that emphasizes the human costs of the war to ordinary Russians.

But this was in 2010. The current year is 2018, and a lot of things have become much clearer since then, often in a depressing direction. It’s time for a reconsideration.

1. The Soviets themselves didn’t make a big deal of it.

The main holiday under the Marxist-Leninist regime was always May 1, the internationalist labor holiday. This is hardly surprising – the Soviets thought they were boldly marching to the victory of the global proletarian revolution, and considering Victory Day as the apex of their history would have seemed insane to them. It’s worth stressing that May 9 only became a public holiday in 1965, which also marked the second ever Victory parade in Moscow. The third was in 1985.

1985. Only the third ever Victory Day parade in Moscow.

It was only when the Soviet order started disintegrating that Victory Day started becoming sacralized. The next one appeared in 1990, on the eve of the USSR’s collapse. And they became yearly event in 1995, at the absolute nadir of Russia’s decline. Essentially, the post-sovok elites created it as a palliative to draw attention away from the fact that everything else had been lost – and their own looting. Consequently, it is worth noting that the vast majority of the veterans of the Great Patriotic War lived most of their lives without Victory Day being an annual religious event.

Now one might rejoinder that the non-Communist Russian patriot might rejoinder that Victory Day is by far not the worst Schelling point around which to base modern Russian identity – after all, it has connotations of patriotism, unity, self-sacrifice. The following points will address this.

2. You cannot sanitize Victory from Communists.

You can certainly try, and the Kremlin certainly does, but ultimately Stalin is as canonical a figure as Churchill in Britain, or F.D. Roosevelt in the US. Dissociating it from Communism is hardly feasible when the current denizens of the Kremlin watch over the Victory parade from a cheap cardboard pedestal, while the soldiers and war machines drive past the imposing granite monolith that is the tomb of the malevolent founder of the Soviet state, with his name prominently inscribed upon it. The former seems fleeting, insecure; the latter powerful, eternal. At least in their current form, Victory Day celebrations are a permanently running, lowkey legitimization of the multinational mafia that took Russia hostage and killed millions of Russians along with Hitler.

3. It is a celebration of idiocy.

The entire ruinous war would have been averted if not for the decades of Bolshevik treason, extremism, and stupidity that had preceded it and helped lead to it.

Russia was slated to be on the winning side of World War I. The Bolsheviks, and especially Lenin, need to take the credit from grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. Conversely, Germany’s defeat would have been all the more comprehensive, making its future resurgence – with pro-Russian kingdoms installed in Bohemia and Poland – all the more improbable.

Without the memory of the Red Terror and the reality of Stalin’s tyranny, there would have been no bourgeois reaction against Leftism and “weak” democracies in Europe; the Nazi coup was an incredibly close-run thing as it was. Even a relative “moderate” at the Soviet helm, such as Nikolay Bukharin, who was open to cooperating with Social Democrats, would have been sufficient to forestall that timeline.

Even all that aside, a Russia that avoided a decade of lost industrial development due to the Civil War, around 15 million deaths due to the Civil War and recurring famines, a sullen peasantry that was initially willing to welcome the Germans before their depredations became known, the Red Army purges, and the persecutions of Tsarist technical specialists would have been much better positioned to counter a German invasion, without the vast sacrifices (27 million Soviet dead) that they actually entailed.

map-schulte-1915-ww1

French post-war plans in 1915.

The USSR in 1945 merely acquired the territories that the Russian Empire would have otherwise acquired or vassalized after WW1 (minus Finland, Tsargrad, and Greater Armenia). Not that Russians ever benefited from it – in 1947, “victorious” Russia experienced another major famine with 1.5 million deaths (that’s thrice more than the worst famine under late Tsarism, but hardly anyone knows about it), because grain was requisitioned to feed the “defeated” Germans in order to politically solidify the GDR. It then fostered hate against itself by locking the countries it had occupied, along with itself, into four decades of economic idiocy – before proceeding to give it all away in exchange for empty promises.

This is what “Victory” amounted to. Pure, distilled idiocy. SO WHAT ARE WE EVEN CELEBRATING?

4. It fosters the spread of idiotic attitudes and values.

Intelligent people, such as Americans, don’t want to die for their country – they want foreign bastards to die for theirs. Soviet cretins celebrate Russians dying for the “victory of the Soviet people against fascism.”

This leads to an entire complex of harmful and self-defeating attitudes.

First, it contributes to the sentiment that the guys in epaulettes – most personified by the Georgian mustachioed one – know best and cannot be questioned. This implicitly encourages subservience to power, even in the face of the most self-evident incompetence, corruption, and betrayal of national interests. Do you think that Mutko, Russia’s Sports Minister, who has overseen the discreding of Russia in international sports and has become a byword for incompetence and venality, isn’t qualified to manage a food stall let alone be promoted to the Deputy Prime Ministership in charge of housing? Do you think the pot-bellied 90 IQ cockroaches at Roskomnadzor should not have the divine right to determine what you can and cannot read? Too bad. You need to suck it up, because blind sacrifice for the glory of the country is the right thing to do.

Second, it deludes Russians into thinking that they died to “protect the world against fascism” or something similarly silly. In reality, they died – due to Communist incompetence, in far greater numbers than was necessary – to prevent themselves from being exterminated by Germans. After all, Stalin’s USSR was far more dangerous to Russians, even Communist ones, than Mussolini’s Italy, the birthplace of fascism, which over the two decades of its existence executed just nine people (most of them terrorists). This prevents Russians from clearly understanding the deep undercurrent of racial hatred that animates European Russophobia and fosters harmful delusions to this day, such as the absurd preoccupation with the German relationship.

5. It twists historical facts to impose a politically correct multinational ideology.

victory-placard

Walking through the Ekaterininsky Park in Moscow, near the Central Military Museum, one gets the distinct impression that it was Caucasians and Central Asians who won the war while Vanya drank vodka in the rear.

Reality was of course quite different.

soviet-military-deaths-ww2-by-percentage-of-ethnicity

The contributions of Central Asians were minor relative to their populations, and their presence often lowered rather than raised combat effectiveness (even in the late USSR, they were disproportionately assigned to the lowest-quality Class C rearguard divisions). Meanwhile, mobilization in the Muslim North Caucasus, especially Chechnya, failed entirely; collaboration was so extensive that deportation of their entire people to Kazakhstan was more humane than the “legalistic” alternative, which was the execution of most of their menfolk.

Still, history has always been used to service present-day political priorities, and as this constitutes multi-nationalism in the Russian Federation, everything else follows.

6. Even so, it is not even effective at that.

The Near Abroad is drifting away from Russia regardless, because few young Uzbeks are interested in “celebrating with tears in their eyes” what is to them the conclusion of a foreign country’s military campaign three generations ago.

In 2016, Kazakhstan canceled its Victory Day march even as it accelerated the transition to the Latin alphabet. The Immortal Regiments marches, perhaps the one genuinely grassroots Russian expression of Victory, have been getting banned in Tajikistan (a quarter of its GDP generated by remittances from Russia) and now Belorussia (which enjoys cheaper gas from Russia than Russians themselves).

Nor can Victory in WW2 be used as a vector of soft power – not when the vast majority of Westerners know of the USSR’s contributions though German generals’ war memoirs and believe that it was the Americans who were responsible for the defeat of Nazi Germany:

poll-ussr-usa-contributed-allied-victory-ww2

The East Europeans, and after the Maidan even official Ukraine (which now marks only the Western May 8 Victory Day, using the remembrance poppy it pilfered from Britain as its symbol), consider the Russian version of Victory Day as a disgusting celebration of Russian chauvinism and imperialism. At some level, these attitudes are of course understandable – the Communists robbed their national futures, just as they did Russia’s. But mention the Germans’ plans for them, and most will consider you a troll.

And it’s likely that, over time, Central Asia, Armenia, and Belorussia will follow in the same footsteps. All the signs are there.

Thanks to Russia’s loser status, its continued association with loser ideologies, and its catastrophic lack of any soft power (RT and Sputnik exist just to troll Westerners), things can hardly be otherwise.

7. People stuck in the past have no future.

Going back to the first point, recall that even the Soviets – blasting the first man into space and dreaming of world proletarian revolution – would have thought it insane to make Victory in WW2 the lynchpin of their history.

This is doubly insane for Russian civilization, which should not be confused with the entity presently calling itself the Russian Federation, which has always had trouble justifying its own existence.

In the past decade, the only addition to the national myth has been the reincorporation of Crimea, which was entirely right and proper, but it’s lame and gay to make what is ultimately just a marginal adjustment to Russia’s 17th century borders a cornerstone of the national ideology. Relative to the dreams and ambitions briefly unleashed by the Russian Spring in 2014, the blatantly politicized celebrations over Crimea – up to and including making its anniversary coincide with the date of Putin’s elections – sooner make a mockery of the entire affair.

Here are a few real national ideas worthy of Russian civilization:

  • The regathering of the Russian lands
  • Genetic IQ augmentation
  • Atomically blasting Imperial Russian Navy battleships off into space

These are all cool, WINNER ideas that self-respecting Russians can get behind.

Participating in this lame Soviet LOSER ritual, designed in its present form under Yeltsin to mask the fundamental hollowness of the Russian Federation – thanks but no thanks.

 
• Category: History • Tags: Russia, World War II 
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  1. Well, harrrumph!

    • Replies: @Nadya
  2. DFH says:

    The regathering of the Russian lands

    lol, sort of delusional to think that the annexation of two irrelevant nations (which will never ever happen) even poorer and more decrepit than Russia herself is a WINNER idea.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  3. songbird says:

    I’ve often though that public holidays favor the political class. In the US: Presidents’ Day, or even more atrociously Martin Luther King Jr. Day.

    Any smart society would instead create ones that were counter to the political class. For example, I’d suggest something like Anti-Tax Day or Stupid Politician’s Day or Ancestors’ Day.

    Same is true of public works named after the political class. Nothing I know of is named after taxpayers.

  4. utu says:

    Pretty courageous but it is hard to not agree.

    • Agree: AP
  5. Silva says:

    Why’d there be a pro-Russian Bohemian kingdom instead of Czechoslovakia?

    • Replies: @LH
  6. The Brits think they won WW2? By doing what, cowering and waiting for help? Thanks for the belly laugh today.

  7. AP says:

    Well-written and mostly correct. Boy will this will trigger the Sovoks badly.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  8. Russia was slated to be on the winning side of World War I. The Bolsheviks, and especially Lenin, need to take the credit from grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. Conversely, Germany’s defeat would have been all the more comprehensive, making its future resurgence – with pro-Russian kingdoms installed in Bohemia and Poland – all the more improbable.

    With all due respect, but this sounds quite megalomaniacal. And that Tsarist Russia would have been on the winning side of WW1 without the Bolshevik takeover (which can hardly be seen as just an accident of history) may be technically true, but hardly means that Russia could be considered to have “won” WW1 given its performance up to 1917.
    I also wonder how the western powers would have eventually reacted if Russia had become as preponderant as in your scenario…even the WW1 alliance was just an alliance of convenience after all, Britain had had serious issues with Russia just a few years before 1914. With Germany removed as an independent power centre, conflict between the western powers and Russia might just have come 30 years earlier than it did.

    Intelligent people, such as Americans, don’t want to die for their country

    Americans sit behind two vast oceans and only have unimportant countries like Canada and Mexico as neighbours, their uniquely blessed historical experience is hardly relevant for a comparison with Russia’s situation

    This prevents Russians from clearly understanding the deep undercurrent of racial hatred that animates European Russophobia

    Nazi Germany doesn’t equal Europe, certainly not today, you’re starting to sound like some SJW ethnic identity activist with things like this.
    It’s true that there are lots of negative views about Russia in Europe (indeed sometimes with a certain racial tinge, “scratch a Russian and you’ll find a Tatar”), but tbh I wonder how you can ignore Russia’s imperial past (and maybe present) as a factor in this. The perception of Russia as a vast, threatening other with imperial ambitions and a desire for gobbling up territory wasn’t without at least some basis in fact for much of the last 300 years.

    Here are a few real national ideas worthy of Russian civilization:

    The regathering of the Russian lands
    Genetic IQ augmentation
    Atomically blasting Imperial Russian Navy battleships off into space

    I’ll expect “Yevardian” and other commenters like him will tell you that you’re not really Russian, and reading things like this one might get the suspicion that they have a point.
    Overly cynical view of the May 9 celebrations imo.
    That being said, we’re clearly living in a transitional age, WW2 is now quite remote in the past (must be incredibly remote for people now in their early 20s), and soon all participants will be dead. This will have interesting implications for the politics of remembrance and identity over the next 20-30 years, not just in Russia.

    • Agree: melanf, Beckow
    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @inertial
    , @AP
  9. inertial says:

    The main holiday under the Marxist-Leninist regime was always May 1, the internationalist labor holiday.

    You’ve been misinformed. May 9 was the second most important Soviet holiday, after November 7. Military parades had nothing to do with it.

    I am yet to read the rest, but for now I’ll just say it again: You are a strange kind of Russian nationalist.

    • Replies: @inertial
    , @Mitleser
    , @Amarige
  10. JiriS says: • Website

    Regathering of Russian lands? Who will decide what is a Russian land? The Poles? Lithuanians? Latvians ? Estonians? Malorossiyskie ? Moldovans? Armenians? Georgians ? Azeris? Forget anything east of the Caspian. That’s Chinese territory now.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  11. inertial says:
    @inertial

    Military parades had nothing to do with it.

    A far better criteria would be the number of songs written for the occasion. Victory Day was ahead of all other holidays by a mile.

    And it’s not true that this holiday was becoming more “sacralized” as the end of the USSR drew near. In the last years of the Soviet Union the Sovoks celebrated the day just as they always did, while the Perestroika liberals started to say… pretty much what you said in this post.

  12. Intelligent people, such as Americans, don’t want to die for their country – they want foreign bastards to die for theirs

    There was no American national interest in regime change Iraq, just as there isn’t one in Syria now. In reality, what you’re describing is the Jewish/Israel lobby making Americans die for their foreign policy objectives in the Middle East. Your quote is remarkably naïve.

    BTW, have you noticed that Israel gets away being called ‘the US greatest ally’ but it never contributed any troops to serve in combat in the Iraq war, which its leaders (including the “leftists” like Ehud Barak) so energetically pushed?

    Of course, none of this doesn’t excuse Russian idiocy in celebrating an empire which was largely a self-defeating failure, but the notion that Americans are in control of their own foreign policy is laughable.

    More interestingly perhaps, even if you look at WWII there is a huge amount of propaganda to justify that involvement. But as John Mearsheimer pointed out, the so-called “isolationists” actually had an extremely strong case to make before the outbreak of the war. The US was essentially already involved in the war, through massive armament supply help to the UK, even before Germany declared war on them. By that point it was essentially just a formality.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  13. Wow , I didn’t know that Belarus and Kazakhstan have cancelled the immortal regiment marches, that’s fucking insane. Even the NATO countries have these marches – except the Baltics and Poland I guess, but is that really what Lukashenko and Nazarbaev are going for?

    Otherwise, I sympathize with what you’ve written, except the “Intelligent people, such as Americans” part, that’s a bit much :D
    I can see where you’re coming from. But maybe for your own sake you can adopt a little more positive view on the matter. Sovok nostalgia or not, I don’t know if you realize that the May 9th parade in Moscow is pretty much the most awesome parade in the world. There is nothing else like it, at least in the white countries. Sovoks may not be cool, but these parades are fucking cool. I don’t think that most people outside Russia perceive it as some loser soviet nostalgia – more like a demonstration that Russia still has strength.
    And the celebration of victory is ultimately a celebration of survival and overcoming challenges and horrors that few other nations can even imagine.

    As a somewhat of a nazi I can’t celebrate the “defeat of fascism” because I think the world would be a better place if at least parts of those ideologies were still around. However, the survival of the Russian people and state seems a perfectly valid cause to celebrate if you are Russian. Even though your alternative history analysis is most probably correct, it still feels a bit like victim blaming.
    Commies or not, it’s entirely the fault of Hitler and the Nazis to decide to exterminate the Russians out of all people.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  14. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    With all due respect, but this sounds quite megalomaniacal. And that Tsarist Russia would have been on the winning side of WW1 without the Bolshevik takeover (which can hardly be seen as just an accident of history) may be technically true, but hardly means that Russia could be considered to have “won” WW1 given its performance up to 1917.

    Seconded.
    Russia would be kind of like Italy which was on winning side, but their performance was worse than Russia’s and the victory not satisfying.

  15. Mitleser says:
    @inertial

    AK is an Anglo-Californian Russian nationalist.

    • Replies: @DFH
  16. Mr. Hack says:

    Here are a few real national ideas worthy of Russian civilization:

    The regathering of the Russian lands

    So, tell us Anatoly, how exactly will this ‘regathering’ (of something that never really existed) take place? Will Ukraine continue to exist as a separated state and nationality? I’ve been wating for close to two years for you to present some coherent ideas regarding this ‘national idea’, and yet it seems that it’s you that has been taking the ‘gay and lame’ way out by remaining silent?

    TWO YEARS NOW?…

  17. Mitleser says:

    Here are a few real national ideas worthy of Russian civilization:

    What is your stance toward the development of North and Far East as national ideas?
    Too feasible and normie-esque?
    Too tied to the USSR?

    Your Solzhenitsyn supported it.

    «The North-East is our vector, chartered long ago for Russia’s natural progress and development…

    The North-East is a reminder that we, Russia, are the North-East of the planet! Our ocean is the Artic, not the Indian one, we are not the Mediterranean, we are not Africa, and we have no business there! Our hands, our sacrifice, our labor, our love is needed by these limitless spaces, recklessly abandoned to freeze in neglect for four centuries…

    The North-East is the key to solving many allegedly unsolvable Russian problems… Its spaces give us a way out of the global technological crisis… Its cold, mostly frozen spaces are yet unready for agriculture and would require an immense investment of energy – but the very depths of the North-East conceal this energy, which we haven’t yet put to waste…

    The North-East is larger than its name and deeper than its geography. The North-East would mean that Russia has eagerly taken the route of SELF-RESTRAINT, a choice of depth and not surface, an inward, not an outward choice. It would mean directing all of the citizens’ development – national, social, educational, family, and personal – toward an internal, not external prosperity.”

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  18. Sam says:

    Given that I consider Anatoly to be just about the most interesting nationalist intellectual of any country, I would love hear his plans for Russia. In other words, suppose he was at the helm of the Russian Federation and he were to lay out a realistic long term plan for Russia, what would it look like?

    I’m thinking in terms of the big areas of foreign, tech, social, cultural, and economic policy. Should make for a very interesting, or series of, post(s).

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  19. @Spisarevski

    “Intelligent people, such as Americans”

    Intelligent people, such as Americans, speak only one language and are confident that they must protect the world by threatening Russia(mostly by surrounding it with military bases).

    I also found that sentence to be quite dubious.

  20. Dmitry says:

    Lol, I don’t have to say – I and mostly everyone else in the world, has to disagree with every eccentric paragraph of the article.

    But good work by Karlin to write such an entertaining article. That was enjoyable to read – in this ‘discussion club’ style where someone is taking points of view like ‘arguing against the use of cutlery’.

  21. @Sam

    Any answer must include a Mecha-Tsar presiding over Orthodox-liturgy blessed artificial wombs and genemodded bears.

  22. DFH says:
    @Mitleser

    Reminiscent of the ‘Chinese’ nationalists who don’t actually live in China

  23. Mitleser says:

    Intelligent people, such as Americans, don’t want to die for their country

    You should have celebrated.

    Great Patriotic War/WWII was one of the few times the Commie RF was allowed to expand.

  24. Every single government under Jewish control has the same exact narrative: everything before WW2 was bad and this nation is only good because it defeated “fascism.” It’s the same thing in America, England, and France: patriotism is simply defined by their jewish owners as anti-Nazism. Everything else about these nations’ histories is secondary.

  25. Mr. XYZ says:

    Great article, Anatoly!

    Completely agreed that Russia should have remained in World War I until the very end. Enduring an additional year of World War I would have been better than enduring several years of civil war, and–as you said–Russia would have also acquired some territorial goodies after the end of World War I (though I doubt that Poland and Czechoslovakia would have become as vassalized as you suggest). Plus, it would have strengthened Russia’s credibility among its allies.

    Also, Yes, World War II could have easily been made much less severe had Russia never went Bolshevik–if it would have even occurred at all in this scenario. After all, in such a scenario, Germany would have had to simultaneously fight France, Britain, and Russia!

    As for Russia’s return to its 17th century borders, this could be viewed as both a plus and a minus. After all, while it resulted in tens of millions of Eastern Slavs being separated from Russia, it also resulted in tens of millions of Muslims being separated from Russia. Given how you complain about the West importing too many Muslims, would it have really been a good idea to have tens of millions of additional Muslims remain within Greater Russia’s borders?

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  26. Mr. XYZ says:

    @Mr. Hack: I wonder if Anatoly’s logic could be used to justify a forcible U.S. annexation of Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. After all, like the U.S., all of these countries are British settler colonies.

    If forcibly unifying all Eastern Slavs into one state is fair game, why not also unifying all British settler colonies into one state?

  27. LondonBob says:
    @Bragadocious

    The only people fighting at one point as the Soviet Union supplied Nazi Germany with badly needed oil, not to mention enigma, the RN or the RAF and their contribution to containing Nazi Germany to a land power.

    Actually I find Remembrance Day here in Britain increasingly over the top, and the WWII mythology is pretty tedious anyway.

    • Replies: @DFH
  28. Mr. XYZ says:

    @German_reader: Had Russia avoided the Bolshevik coup and emerged on the victorious side in World War I (as a result of Allied successes on the Western Front), I think that it would have been able to successfully retain good ties with Britain and France if it would have avoided expanding any further beyond what it would have gotten in the post-WWI peace conference in this scenario.

    Also, it is worth noting that there really wouldn’t have been very many attractive expansion opportunities for Russia after a Russian WWI victory. After all, it would have already unified all Eastern Slavs into one state and it would have already acquired the Armenian-heavy territories of the Ottoman Empire. What else is there? Mongolia? Xinjiang? Afghanistan? Iran? Are any of these territories genuinely worth a war over?

  29. @DFH

    They are not “nations”. lol They are just pieces of territory, parts of historical Russian heartland.

    You take 3 broken pieces of Russia, melt them, mold them, and, hopefully make a real country out of them – that’s the idea.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  30. inertial says:
    @German_reader

    That being said, we’re clearly living in a transitional age, WW2 is now quite remote in the past (must be incredibly remote for people now in their early 20s), and soon all participants will be dead.

    That’s what they were saying in the 1980s. During the Soviet times, Victory Day was an extremely meaningful holiday for the veterans or anyone else who remembered the war. But for the younger generations, even the the people then in their 40s, this was just a day off. So the conventional wisdom at the time was that the holiday will gradually lose its intense meaning and will become something like Memorial Day in the USA (basically, time for barbecue.)

    What actually happened was exactly the opposite.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  31. Nadya says:
    @Patrick Armstrong

    It is stupid and a lie. That man has probably nothing to celebrate. My grandfather always celebrated the Victory Day meeting with his friends, the other veterans, they always putting on their awards and receiving gratitude and honour. We celebrate it the same way: to salute the memory of our defenders and remind ourselves of who are our moral compass and we should be worthy of their memory. The time this day was not celebrated and not even a holiday was during Khruschev, who hated Stalin and wanted to clean the memory of Stalin`s State great Victory out of the mind of the new generations. Breznev brought it back. And only the liberals of the 90-s, i.e. Yeltsin`s pigs, tried to diminish that day again. And it is a lie, it was not designed during Yeltsin`s times.

  32. Gerard2 says:

    jeezz….don’t read the blog for a few days and I come back to this subhuman filth.

    If anything confirms Karlin as a liberast New Times/Ekho/Dozhd/Scientology/Motyl/Valtsman- loving donkey….it’s this despicable garbage.

    catastrophic lack of any soft power

    ….this brainless, attenion-seeking moronism lie……………in the post-soviet space we have huge popularity of Russian television shows ( before many of these ex-ussr countries American controlled authorities decided to ban them), Russian pop music groups& singers very popular even though completely unknown in the west, Russian internet blogs and social media sites and search engines, Russian tv health doctors/”lifestyle gurus”, Russian cars and trucks,not to mention the success of the Olympics and what will be a huge success of the World Cup….that plus Russian women and Kazan,Saint Petersburg,Moscow and now Sochi being superb places for tourists from all over the world…..plus the fact that most of the very talented people in Ukraine have gone not to America or Germany in the last 27 years…but to Russia, likewise Armenia,Moldova,Georgia and the rest

    The fact is what you stupidly call

    “catastrophic lack of any soft power

    ….is in fact extremely successful soft power…so successful and too successful that the Pindostan influenced governments and oligarchs in these other Soviet countries are forced to do everything to destroy it (language is another huge soft power thing)

    Idiot

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @DFH
    , @utu
  33. LondonBob says:
    @Polish Perspective

    American isolationists were just plastic Americans with German or Irish roots, not fully assimilated and more concerned with petty ethnic score settling. The proper Anglo-Saxon populace supported intervention.

    I used to agree with isolationism but I grew out of it. Even a small US military commitment to Europe would have changed the calculus, even for a genocidal maniac like Hitler. The US simply couldn’t have kept their head down whilst Communism and it’s evil twin reaction against it ran amok. The mistake was to be late, not to arrive at all.

    That French map is nuts, Napoleon’s idea of little German statelets, bit like how they wrongly thought they could make West Germany a dependency through the EU.

  34. Gerard2 says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Also, Yes, World War II could have easily been made much less severe had Russia never went Bolshevik

    Would have been less severe had France and Poland not so pitifully collapsed in such a short space of time…….and if the Americans and British had not aided the rise of Nazi Germany.

  35. Mitleser says:

    That French map is nuts, Napoleon’s idea of little German statelets

    I like it for Greater Hannover and Greater Saxony, the parts of Germany I care the most.
    And alternate Austria is not bad either.

    Screw Prussia.

    bit like how they wrongly thought they could make West Germany a dependency through the EU.

    Were they wrong?
    Ruling German elite depends on the EU.

  36. Mr. XYZ says:

    @Gerard2: How exactly did the Americans and British aid the rise of Nazi Germany? By being unwilling to fight for Czechoslovakia in 1938?

    Also, while I don’t know if Poland’s military performance in 1939 could have been improved, Yes, France’s military performance in 1940 could have certainly been improved had France avoided sending its Seventh Army to the Low Countries and instead kept it near the Ardennes.

    • Replies: @MarkinPNW
  37. Mr. XYZ says:

    : Do you have a link in regards to Mearsheimer’s (sp?) article in regards to American isolationists and World War II?

  38. @JiriS

    Russians will decide what is a Russian land. This is what a powerful people can do.

    Forget anything east of the Caspian.

    How about north of the Caspian? We might be able to engineer a partition. Only nothern part of Kazakhstan is considered Russian.

    • Replies: @DFH
  39. Mr. Hack says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Oh no, looks like the regathering will necessitate Stalinist type gulags, and maybe even Hitleresque concentration camps to help ‘melt and mold’ the recalcitrant Ukrainians. :-( but isn’t this a part of what Karlin is railing against here in this piece? I’d rather hear his take on the ‘melting and molding’, since he’s the High IQ guy running this blog, however, feel free to include your vision of the Russian version of Dante’s Inferno?………………….Karlin, what’s up? Nothing again -0-? (How long will you keep your loyal opposition in suspense?)

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  40. Dmitry says:
    @Gerard2

    jeezz….don’t read the blog for a few days and I come back to this subhuman filth.

    If anything confirms Karlin as a liberast New Times/Ekho/Dozhd/Scientology/Motyl/Valtsman- loving donkey….it’s this despicable garbage

    He’s allowed to have his own unusual, if strange, points of view.

    It’s not necessary to burn him as a witch.

    When people post this kind of ‘argument against eating with cutlery’, or ‘argument against tying your shoelaces on your shoes’, type of eccentric opinions – it can even be useful making people explain why it’s better not to eat with your hands. He probably should have posted it tomorrow instead of today, as it was written in a humorous way and designed for entertainment.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  41. @Mitleser

    What is your stance toward the development of North and Far East as national ideas?

    If by ‘development’ you mean building oil rigs/drilling holes in the ground, then Russia is doing this already. Otherwise, it’s really dumb idea, dumping money into territories, where nobody wants to life.

    Do you fancy living beyond the Arctic circle, Mitleser? -50°C winters, eh?

  42. Mitleser says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Tropical Hyperborea shall fix that.

    -50°C winters, eh?

    Not that bad as long as it is not combined with (high) humidity.

  43. Mr. Hack says:
    @Dmitry

    He probably should have posted it tomorrow instead of today, as it was written in a humorous way and designed for entertainment.

    What have you been smoking lately, Tovarishch Ja Upisilsa? :-)

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  44. DFH says:
    @Gerard2

    Russian women

    Who doesn’t love a woman with a permanent frown?

  45. DFH says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Russians will decide what is a Russian land. This is what a powerful people can do.

    Sorry Felix, the more powerful Yankees and Europeans have already decided that Ukraine and Belarus aren’t Russian lands.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  46. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Look at the last paragraph – It’s concluding about atomically blasting ships (I imagine staffed with Admiral Martyanov) into space.

    It’s mainly a comedy or entertainment article, with a few of his unusual points of view. Maybe it should have been posted tomorrow from civilized taste – still it hardly requires to burn him as a witch.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  47. songbird says:
    @Felix Keverich

    It has a certain attraction, but mostly in the abstract: an underground city would be as snug as a bug in a rug. Cheaper than a Mars colony, and you are safe from the hordes of sub-Saharans that are ready to break loose.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  48. @DFH

    More frequent and unpredictable than permanent. I speak from many years of intimate observation.

  49. Matra says:

    even official Ukraine (which now marks only the Western May 8 Victory Day, using the remembrance poppy it pilfered from Britain as its symbol)

    Is this some pathetic attempt to appear more Western, less Russian, and therefore more likeable to Anglos, or does the poppy have some historical relevance in Ukraine?

  50. @Bragadocious

    In 1940, while the USSR was still supplying smuggled rubber to Germany, the UK broke the back of the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine robbing Germany of air dominance on the future Eastern Front and war supplies. In 1940 the UK alone out produced Germany in planes, tanks and ships. Canada added even more.

    In 1941, a third of the tanks defending Moscow were from Britain and Canada. Churchill started diverting ships from Canada to Murmansk from June onwards. Valentines may not have been the best tanks in the war but they were there when needed and started in cold weather. The USSR received 3000 Hurricanes before the USA got into gear not to mention many thousands of Bedford trucks. For free, not Lend Lease. A few KAMAZ apart, Russia still can’t make trucks. The combined Italian/German armies were kept out of the Middle Eastern oil fields by Empire troops.

    The British/Canadian uranium centred A bomb programme was on the right track unlike the German one. Handing it to the US accelerated it two or three years. The British Empire had been pacifist. It was 4 or 5 years behind Germany in military build up but it was waiting for rescue less than Russia in 1941. By 1943 the UK had a strategic bomber. USSR never got close. Throwing away millions of men with stupid tactics was the Soviet way. Even though the USSR almost always outnumbered the Germans 3:1 in overall force strength, it took them years and vast losses to reclaim what the Germans had taken in months.

    Without Russia, the British Empire would have taken three or four years longer to beat Germany (assuming the USSR stopped supplying rubber, grain, fuel, steel and alloys to Germany as it did in 1940 & 41). The BE had a much bigger economy, better strategic weapons, not just planes,, radar, code breakers (battle of Kursk anyone), and the best heavy tanks of the war. The BE was simply much more mechanised than Germany.

    Soviet, excessive, sacrifice shortened the war and saved millions of British & Empire dead but the war could have been won other ways. Nukes for example.

    Of course Russia and France downplay the British contribution. They have reasons. But from 1939 (when the SU was a German ally) to 1942 the strategic resistance was British. Stalingrad killed far more people than El Alamein but Germans with oil and the Mediterranean (steam straight to the Kuban) would have been just as war losing for the, eventual, allies.

    You are a cretinous fascist probably not talking through your mouth.

  51. @inertial

    The First World War part of the UK’s Remembrance Day came back as well as the last of the soldiers died off.

  52. DFH says:
    @Philip Owen

    The BE was simply much more mechanised than Germany.

    Most of British industry was extremely backwards and inefficient. Even in 1944 the German aircraft factories and coal mines, despite the bombing, were 1/4 more efficient. Many machine tools and complex parts had to be imported from America because Britain wasn’t capable of manufacturing them.

  53. @Philip Owen

    Without Russia, the British Empire would have taken three or four years longer to beat Germany

    You’re delusional, even with the Wehrmacht already being broken in the east and the massive contributions of the Americans, the landings in France in 1944 were extremely risky, no way Britain could have done something like this alone. I also have a hard time believing the British public would have tolerated the massive casualties inevitable in a full-scale fight against the Wehrmacht, no one in Britain wanted a repeat of the mass slaughter of WW1.
    If Germany hadn’t attacked the Soviet Union in 1941, I’d suppose there would have been prolonged stalemate between Germany and the British empire, with neither side being able to hurt the other sufficiently to force a decision. Or maybe Germany would have succeeded in strangling Britain economically with u-boats. But the idea that the British empire alone would have been able to eject German forces from their conquests (something which would have been absolutely unprecedented in British history) must surely rank as the least likely scenario.
    Maybe British contributions are undervalued, and Britain certainly had a lot of impressive technology in WW2. But at some point revisionism just becomes silly.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    , @dfordoom
  54. @DFH

    Sorry Felix, the more powerful Yankees and Europeans have already decided that Ukraine and Belarus aren’t Russian lands.

    I question your notion that Europeans have more power than the Russian people. What is ‘Europeans’ anyway? Poland, Lithuania, Eurocrats? Don’t make me laugh!

  55. @German_reader

    I agree that amphibious assault and head to head combat wouldn’t have worked, for either party. Both had the strength (RAF, Royal Navy – Wehrmacht) to defend but not to win. I’ve left out the Japanese because that makes the US inevitable or takes 40 divisions away from Russia at a critical point. There were 5 million Indian volunteers 3 million were recruited. In the long term, which never came, they might have been sigificant but not if Churchill sent them into Italy or Greece which he would have done. It would have come down to nukes or Churchill losing an election and the new guy looking for a truce.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  56. @Philip Owen

    There were 5 million Indian volunteers 3 million were recruited

    I know Indian troops fought in North Africa and the Mideast, but to defeat Germany they would have needed to enter ground combat in Europe in truly vast numbers, and suffer corresponding casualties. It seems unlikely to me that Indians would have been that enthusiastic to die in a white man’s war for the British empire. As it was, the British only hung on in India with difficulty during the war (“Quit India”) and pretty much had to promise they’d grant India independence soon after the war.

    It would have come down to nukes or Churchill losing an election and the new guy looking for a truce

    Which sounds rather different from “the British empire could have won on its own”.
    I can see how dismissal of Britain’s contributions is offensive, but that doesn’t make far-fetched alternative history scenarios any more credible.

  57. AP says:
    @German_reader

    And that Tsarist Russia would have been on the winning side of WW1 without the Bolshevik takeover (which can hardly be seen as just an accident of history) may be technically true, but hardly means that Russia could be considered to have “won” WW1 given its performance up to 1917.

    Russia defeated 2 of the 3 main central powers – Austria-Hungary (siege of Przemysl was Verdun of the East – and Russia took it) and the Ottoman Empire, forcing the former to depend on Germany and grabbing about 10% of the latter’s territory.

    Historiography of Russian performance in World War I is basically a victim of traditional Western Russophobes and pro-commie leftists piling on a country that they both hate.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  58. @AP

    Russia defeated 2 of the 3 main central powers

    And yet Russia collapsed into chaos before Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman empire, so it seems to have been a rather special kind of victory.
    Ottoman empire also had to fight the British (Gallipoli, Iraq and probably more I can’t think of right now), so Russia didn’t face the Ottomans alone.

    • Replies: @AP
  59. @songbird

    This reminds me of the “seasteading” dreams which came very, very close to fruition in 2017 and then failed again:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/french-polynesia-ends-agreement-with-peter-thiel-seasteading-institute-2018-3

    From a technological perspective, I think its fascinating and its disappointing that it can never seem to find its legs to exist.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Ali Choudhury
  60. MarkinPNW says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    To understand “How exactly did the Americans and British aid the rise of Nazi Germany” you could read Anthony Sutton for a description of how the Anglo Elites (American and British) aided Hitler’s rise to power – from a revisionist British-American historical perspective; and Nikolai Starikov who explains it from a revisionist Russian historical perspective.

    Also, Mahan and Mackinder can provide an explanation of the geopolitical and military philosophies behind the actions of the British and American elites.

    Basically, the plan of these Anglo/British elites was to establish world hegemony by getting any potential competitors (Germany, Russia, etc.) to fight each other to the death.

    • Replies: @MarkinPNW
    , @random rand
  61. MarkinPNW says:
    @MarkinPNW

    The Anglo/British elites originally recruited the Bolsheviks to impose ruin on Russia to keep it from profiting by being on the “winning side” of WW1, and then when at the death of Lenin and Stalin out-maneuvering Trotsky they lost control of the Bolsheviks, they recruited Hitler to counter them.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  62. Dmitry says:

    How Victory Day was around the world

    In Moscow

    In Minsk.

    In Sevastopol

    In Kiev (they now do a day earlier)

    In Berlin (Germany)

    In Tokyo (Japan)

    In Ashdod (Israel)

    In Madrid (Spain)

    In Seoul (South Korea)

    And even Washington DC

  63. Eh, I think Mr. Karlin overstates his case a bit too much here. He thinks Russia shouldn’t dwell on the past but it does seem he’s so overly nostalgic for the Russian Empire he constantly dwells on that past. At the end of the day, Victory Day still isn’t a bad Schelling Point. People still remember WWII and if Russia lost the war Russians would stop existing as a people. Sure, maybe if Bolshevism never happened WWII would not have happened as it did but Bolshevism did happen so you might as well keep the Schelling Points you can make use of. As german_reader said, this article is an overly cynical view.

    An interesting point worth noting is how Mr. Karlin called the Americans smart at foreign policy. I actually do think Americans are underestimated at geopolitics and the promotion of the idea that the American establishment is ran by a bunch of morons probably serves US foreign policy. There’s no reason to believe American strategists are fundamentally less competent than Europeans or Russians. Even if the Americans are not playing nth dimensions chess they are at the very least playing chess. Maybe if the current generation of American strategists die and college libs and SJWs take power the US will implode in a hurry but we’re not at that point yet.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  64. @MarkinPNW

    Also, Mahan and Mackinder can provide an explanation of the geopolitical and military philosophies behind the actions of the British and American elites.

    Basically, the plan of these Anglo/British elites was to establish world hegemony by getting any potential competitors (Germany, Russia, etc.) to fight each other to the death.

    This is a very good point. If we follow this strategy, then USG actions actually make much more sense than what Anglo propaganda would have you believe. Didn’t Ukraine do a very good job of keeping Germany and Russia apart? What if the actual purpose of withdrawing from the Iranian deal is to fuck with Europe? I highly doubt American geopolitical strategy is as incompetent as what the media would have you believe.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  65. @LondonBob

    American isolationists were just plastic Americans with German or Irish roots, not fully assimilated and more concerned with petty ethnic score settling. The proper Anglo-Saxon populace supported intervention.

    Not true, as noted by our distinguished host himself — according to a 1941 Gallup poll large majorities in all 48 states were against intervention.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/war-sentiment/

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  66. DFH says:
    @LondonBob

    Actually I find Remembrance Day here in Britain increasingly over the top, and the WWII mythology is pretty tedious anyway.

    Maybe we should replace it with an NHS day

  67. AlexBond says:

    Please, consider the following analogy – a man gets seriously ill, partially because of his own idiocy, and partially because his enemies actions. Then he nearly dies, but at the last moment grips himself, changes his life, makes hard work and gets cured, which for him looks and feels almost like a miracle. Normally, such a man would celebrate this recovery from near death for the rest of his life, even if he might understand he had been idiot to get ill in the first place and he had been too stupid and slow to get proper medical treatment before it became too serious.

    Also, unfortunately your lack of prolonged childhood cultural background in Russia makes itself clear in this blog post.

    Victory Day and WWII memory in general was of huge personal and cultural importance to people in the late Soviet Union and post-Soviet era. It is clearly seen trough the vast numbers of songs and films dedicated to it (a lot of them are really good and known to generations of Russians). Indeed, the VD traditions were not so official and “imperial” before 1965, but after that time it quickly rose in state-recognized status, well before Yeltsin Era. While May 1 (up to 1968) and November 7 (up to 1990) continued to be the days fo military parades (except for 9 May in 1965, 1985 and 1990), that was just sticking to older Soviet traditions, which wasn’t properly matching public of ordinary people.

    Modern Victory Day is not about celebration of communism – there are some Stalinists making PR on this holiday, of course, but those, hopefully, are mostly marginals. It is really bad idea to denounce the entire holiday because of them.

    For most people in Russia Victory Day is:

    a) a family holiday, day of rememrance of soldiers and victims of war (and often, not only WWII, but other XXth centuries wars) – almost every Russian family have someone to remember. That reminds the situation in other European countries, but for Russia the day is much more important because of much, much larger numbers of war dead and size of the army.

    b) a day, when national power and unity and spirit and pride are demonstrated. That’s the difference from European countries, most of which were loosers or poor performers in the war.

    • Replies: @AP
  68. @Philip Owen

    LOL, I stopped reading after “the British Empire was pacifist.” You Limeys are hopeless.

    Here’s a great Twitter feed you should read sometime, maybe you can rewire the fried motherboard between your ears.

    Britain didn't fight for the worlds freedom in WW2, they fought to try and cling on to the British Empire. Following the end of WW2, Britain assisted in restoring Dutch colonial rule in Indonesia and French colonial rule in Vietnam #VEDay— Crimes of Britain (@crimesofbrits) May 8, 2018

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  69. Steven says:

    Just a few thoughts :
    -I dare you to go and share your contemptuous ideas and words among the patriots and fighters of the already (+/-) regathered Russian lands, Crimea and Donbass. They’ll lynch you or beat you up so severely that you won’t even remember you’re a Russian.
    -Lol pro-russian kingdoms in Bohemia or Poland wouldn’t have survived for 5 years, you’re deluded.
    Or wouldn’t they have fostered hate against Russia as happened in the soviet satellite states ?
    -There was no nazi coup, they won the elections. Nazism was deeply rooted in revanchism, racial superiority, antisemitism,thirst for Lebensraum,pan-germanism, anti-capitalism and of course anticommunism. Some of these ideas went back centuries in time and even without a soviet Russia national-socialism would have come to power in Germany.
    -I’m convinced that without a man of steel, whatever his sins, Russia would have been crushed completely, certainly with a decadent, unworldly and westernized tsar as it’s leader.
    -Spitting on your own history (which you can’t deny nor change) won’t stop drifting the Near Abroad away, you can’t stop the course of history. It’s not necessarily the consequence of Russia’s “loser status”, it’s because they feel and are different on certain crucial points.
    -Crimea is not a marginal adjustment, it’s a symbolically and strategically very important region.
    -If RT exists just to troll Westerners, what the hell are you doing than in their programs, just pocketing the money ?!
    -Don’t overestimate Western soft power, they’re good at feeding naive,impoverished and russophobic masses in certain Eastern European countries. In Western Europe, more and more people see through their demagogic lies.
    -You’re an isolated, nationalistic nerd, in a way a real loser.
    -Your 3 “national ideas worthy of Russian civilization” are too ridicule to discuss.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  70. @MarkinPNW

    Yet Lenin’s gold came from Germany. Trotsky had no more than a good expense account.

  71. @Bragadocious

    Which bit of the British Empire was Poland? Remind me again.

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
  72. Dmitry says:

    Meanwhile in Kiev – nationalists unsuccessfully picketing and sticker bombing “Inter” TV channel to stop them broadcasting their Victory Day concert.

    [MORE]

  73. songbird says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    That is unfortunately the drawback of most of these schemes: old countries will not permit new ones to exist. That is why I think space holds such an appeal for so many. The distances involved evoke a sense of peace, or perhaps just a grace period to develop into a power which can defend its own territory.

  74. @LondonBob

    “Plastic Americans.” The ones fighting British propaganda were the real Americans. The “plastic English” located in the hunt clubs of Newport and Syosset — they were the problem. (Along with YKW)

    Just FYI, maybe you miserable deadbeats should’ve paid your WW1 debts to us; we might’ve given you a more sympathetic hearing. Instead, we correctly played hardball with you, took your military bases in exchange for some destroyers, then came over to the UK and screwed all your women (back when they weren’t fat tramps). I’d say it was a good exchange overall.

  75. @Steven

    I dare you to go and share your contemptuous ideas and words among the patriots and fighters of the already (+/-) regathered Russian lands, Crimea and Donbass.

    Quite a number of them will agree with my assessment. For instance, I’m sure Zhuchkovsky will.

    There was no nazi coup, they won the elections.

    They won the elections, not the right to completely reformat the German political system into a dictatorship.

    Spitting on your own history (which you can’t deny nor change) won’t stop drifting the Near Abroad away, you can’t stop the course of history. It’s not necessarily the consequence of Russia’s “loser status”, it’s because they feel and are different on certain crucial points.

    So you merely disagree on semantics. Good to know.

    If RT exists just to troll Westerners, what the hell are you doing than in their programs, just pocketing the money ?!

    I have appeared on RT approximately three or four times and have never received a cent from them.

  76. Mikhail says: • Website

    As RT has paid good money to some others who unfairly bashed that station.

    How official Russia screws itself in a way that’s not so well known remains an ongoing issue.

    Russia should honor Victory Day in an objective manner that acknowledges Stalin’s brutality.

  77. AP says:
    @AlexBond

    Generally good comment.

    One of my elderly in-laws is an actual veteran of the war. He doesn’t talk about it but considers the day sacred and spends May 9th on his dacha with his family, away from any parades. He has a low opinion of Putin.

  78. @Philip Owen

    Uh, you said the British Empire was pacifist. Why don’t you unpack that ludicrous statement for everyone? Instead you’re trying to change the subject to Poland.

    But since you bring it up, no one ordered your incompetent PM to guarantee Polish sovereignty against a German attack. That was his roll of the dice. But like all British “diplomacy,” it came up snake eyes. You tried to cash a check with insufficient funds. Then you spent 2 years cowering in bunkers, much to everyone’s amusement.

  79. AP says:
    @German_reader

    “Russia defeated 2 of the 3 main central powers”

    And yet Russia collapsed into chaos before Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman empire, so it seems to have been a rather special kind of victory.

    Russia underwent a revolution. At the time it was actually driving the Germans back (Kerensky offensive). It was an internal event, not a military defeat. Like the collapse of the USSR, which was not something outsiders did.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  80. Gerard2 says:
    @DFH

    Who doesn’t love a woman with a permanent frown?

    ….you must be confusing Russian women with angry ,sad Polish women stuck in loveless marriages with some fat oaf who she doesn’t actually have sexual relations with( as evidenced by the very small sized families in Poland despite the lack of belief in contraception and the supposedly longer marriages) whilst living in a cultural dump with next to nought tourists , like Warsaw?…..and with the husband or son away more than half the time in Germany or the UK?

    Russian women have great humour and ability to enjoy themselves at any age

    • Replies: @szopen
  81. @AP

    It was an internal event, not a military defeat

    That’s a bit like saying Germany wasn’t defeated in 1918, it just went down because of internal revolution. A home front doesn’t collapse without good reason.
    It’s news to me that Kerensky offensive is now supposed to have been a success.

    • Replies: @AP
  82. Anonymous[196] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not Russian, just a red-blooded American. But when I read that disrespectful bullshit by Karlin, about the past generations who sacrificed so much for their country, I got pissed off. Show some respect you little ingrate. You flabby, long-haired Berkeley-educated bitch. Maybe instead of reading all that emasculating sci-fi/fantasy crap you should read a few books about Stalingrad. No wonder Pol Pot wanted to wipe out all the intellectuals. What a worthless bunch of motherfuckers they are, doing nothing but spouting bullshit!

  83. Mr. XYZ says:

    @German_reader: Yeah, I had the impression that the Kerensky Offensive had some initial successes but ultimately petered out and failed.

    Also, the Germans captured Riga in September 1917:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jugla

    Of course, one could claim that Russia would have performed better in 1917 had it not been for the Petrograd Soviet weakening military discipline with its Order No. 1 and if Bolshevik defeatist propaganda would not have circulated among Russian troops on the front lines.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @AP
  84. Mr. XYZ says:

    @German_reader: As for Germany, it wasn’t totally militarily defeated in late 1918, but it was on its way there. Perhaps a bit similar to Japan in 1945, but without the nuclear weapons factor.

  85. Mr. XYZ says:

    @AP: Is your elderly in-law ethnically Russian or ethnically Ukrainian?

    Also, off-topic, but I can’t resist asking–had there been no World War II and Holocaust, what do you think the role of Eastern European Jews (the ones who would have remained there–as opposed to the ones who would have emigrated elsewhere) would have been in the 21st century?

    Would they have largely been pushing for left-wing political causes like U.S. Jews largely do? Or would they have been more nationalistic–similar to how Poles and Hungarians are extremely hostile towards allowing large numbers of Muslims and Africans to move to their countries?

    • Replies: @AP
  86. Bigly says:

    Anatoly wrote:

    In 2016, Kazakhstan canceled its Victory Day march even as it accelerated the transition to the Latin alphabet. The Immortal Regiments marches, perhaps the one genuinely grassroots Russian expression of Victory, have been getting banned in Tajikistan (a quarter of its GDP generated by remittances from Russia) and now Belorussia (which enjoys cheaper gas from Russia than Russians themselves).

    The info about Belarus is not true, the authorities eventually ceded and gave the green light for the Immortal Regiment march to proceed. From the anti-Russian, Western-funded NGO “Charter 97″:

    https://charter97.org/en/news/2018/5/9/289300/

  87. Dmitry says:

    Offtopic:

    There seem to have been another round of airstrikes from Israel into Syria tonight.

    I’m reading on the Hebrew boards – they have posters living in Northern District and Golan posting about some loud noises (missile takeoffs) they hear and of planes flying over their house. Jokes about how people in Switzerland would not understand their excuse for being tired at work tomorrow.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Mikhail
  88. @Dmitry

    You’re not up to date, Iranian forces have supposedly fired 20 missiles at the Golan.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44063022

    Well, looks like Greasy William’s prayers might be fulfilled after all.
    I wonder if the US will join in. On some level I hope so, the sooner US credibility gets destroyed, the better.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Dmitry
  89. Mr. Hack says:
    @Dmitry

    Since you almost seem to have a direct passageway to the inner workings of Karlin’s mind, why not share with us what you consider to be some of Karlin’s ‘unusual points of view’ that he expresses here?
    Would you consider his ‘real national ideas worthy of Russian civilization’ that includes:

    The regathering of the Russian lands

    to be one of his provocative funny bone statements, or more closely resembling something that he indeed holds near and dear to his heart? (I’d ask him to answer for himself, but he avoids any deeper discussion about this topic like the plague).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  90. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. XYZ

    The WW I start date of 1914 as opposed to 1916 played a role in Russia’s fate, as well as the very mistaken attempt for Russia to have launched an offensive into Germany as early as it did in WW I.

    Comparatively, imagine the USSR launching an offensive into Germany, on-or before, or shortly after June 22, 1941.

  91. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Bragadocious

    The Brits think they won WW2?

    Of course they did. Thank God for Churchill. Without Churchill there would be no British Empire today. Had it not been for Churchill London today might be a city under foreign occupation.

  92. Anon 2 says:

    Re: “Russia’s loser status”

    Anatoly, if it makes you feel any better, it is Germany that is truly
    a failed civilization. 100 million German speakers, excellent location, , and yet there is not a single German-speaking country outside
    of Europe. At the same time the Spanish, the Portuguese, the French,
    and, of course, the Brits almost effortlessly extended their civilizations
    throughout the globe. France, Spain, Italy are loaded with soft power
    whereas Germany is still seen as repellent (Merkel’s millions is the
    latest fiasco) in Europe, and possibly only attractive to the Middle Eastern
    types (Turks, Syrians, Afghans, and Israelis). I still recall how in September
    2015 a Syrian migrant interviewed on the way north said, “We love the
    Germans because of what they did to the Jews.”

    • Agree: German_reader
  93. Mr. XYZ says:

    @Mikhail: In regards to invading Germany in 1914, one’s view on this might depend on whether one believes that this affected the outcome of campaign in the West in August-September 1914. After all, if France would have fell in 1914, Russia would have been screwed (though not as much as in our TL since there would have been no opening for the Bolsheviks to seize power).

    As for having World War I break out in 1916, please keep in mind that a World War I which breaks out in 1916 could have Britain remain neutral (due to Russia’s growing military might and also possibly due to the Schlieffen Plan becoming outdated by that point in time). British neutrality in an alt-World War I might very well cancel out the effects of Russia’s increased military strength. In other words, Germany might have a harder time in the East but an easier time in the West in an alt-World War I which breaks out in 1916.

  94. dfordoom says: • Website
    @German_reader

    If Germany hadn’t attacked the Soviet Union in 1941, I’d suppose there would have been prolonged stalemate between Germany and the British empire

    Not very prolonged. Britain was broke. Britain would have been forced to make peace with Germany. Germany would almost certainly have offered rather attractive terms for such a peace.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  95. Mbc says:

    It is incredible stuff this guy comes up with. Russian eempire was dissolving and soldiers were deserting, yet hee says they were on the cusp of victory.
    Every European country celebrates the end wwwii. Countries such as Denmark and Netherlands that had negligible resistance movements make a big deal out of their contribution to the victory.
    He posts graphs, pictures and lengthy rants, but to no avail.
    The man is a first class moron who likes to hear himself talk.
    Really sad.

  96. Mitleser says:
    @random rand

    There’s no reason to believe American strategists are fundamentally less competent than Europeans or Russians.

    They are not less competent.
    But they are not more competent, either.

    Note how they handle the rise of the PRC as an emerging superpower.
    Some competence like the recent tech restrictions, but also a lot of incompetence which makes countries like India and Japan not rely too much on America in order to deal with China.

    • Replies: @random rand
  97. Anon 2 says:

    Here’s Europe’s tragedy at its starkest:

    Area of Europe (from Portugal to the Urals): 10,180,000 sq km
    Area of China: 9,597,000 sq km

    i.e., Europe and China have basically the same area, about 10 million sq km.

    Now compare the populations:

    Europe 750 million
    China 1.38 billion

    Hence it’s reasonable to conclude that Europe is missing at least 630 million people!
    What happened to them? Clearly, it’s not Europe’s location which is nearly
    perfect (temperate zone, rich soils, etc). I would hypothesize that it’s Europe’s
    near constant wars (since Charlemagne) that are primarily responsible for the fact that
    Europe is so severely underpopulated. Of course, the bleeding of the populations
    to the colonies has also been a contributing factor. Nevertheless, Europe with
    a population of 1.4 billion would be a superpower to reckon with but it’s too
    late for that.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    , @songbird
    , @Bigly
  98. @Mr. Hack

    Given that you have in the past proposed that commenters who argue with you get checked into punitive psychological facilities I would suggest that you refrain from calling others Stalinists unless they really sound like neo-Stalinists.

    While I don’t think you are aware of it, it does sound very sovok-like to throw people who disagree with you into psychological prisons.

    I don’t think it would be hard to recreate a unified Russian identity again given the right policies once all the land has been regathered.

    My proposal on first how to get the land and second how to carry out cultural unification would be something like this:

    Carry out a coup or Anschluss type scenario in Biélorussia.

    Launch a blitzkrieg attack against Maidan government to capture the greater part of Malorussia and Novorussia.

    Leave Greater Galicia as a rump Ukraine.

    Dump the svidomites in Galicia and seal the border (to prevent hit-and-run attacks and American weapons flooding the region).

    Station Russian gendarmerie in the regained territories to pacify the region (At worst I think it will be like the North Caucasus insurgency).

    Send diplomatic note expressing worry over the treatment of the Slavic population (and other minorities?) in Kazakhstan (given Nazarbayev’s policies this shouldn’t be difficult).

    Encourage local population to agitate for formation of South Siberian autonomous Republic in North Kazakhstan.

    Keep the South Siberian Republic disassociating from Kazakh state structures until Astana cracks down on the Russian population.

    Hold referendum and declare South Siberian independence.

    Send Russian army south to protect the new border and prevent Kazakh army from retaking the area.

    Keep fighting until the Russian army and pro-Russian militias have captured the northern half of the country.

    Perform Operation Storm-like ethnic cleansing in South Siberia.

    Hold referendum on South Siberia joining Russia.

    That is the military part.

    To unify Russia culturally:

    Encourage Surzhik-like dialects in former Bielorussia and Ukraine (West Russia) to blur the linguistic distinction between the languages.

    Incorporate Ukrainian and Bielorussian words into Russian while encouraging West Russians to speak Russian.

    Pursue a Franquist policy of adopting some elements of regional cultures ex. Ukrainian peasant clothes and songs while discouraging others ex. vernacular spellings of peoples’ names.

    Emphasise the Russian National State’s status as a successor to Old Rus’ and as a Third Rome.

    Encourage internal migration and intermarriage within Russia so that West Russians settle further east (perhaps in national minority regions like former Tatarstan and Tuva?) and Great Russians settle in the regained territories.

    Make sure that education and media reinforces the previously mentioned points.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @AP
  99. Mr. XYZ says:

    @Hyperborean: Would a similar strategy work in regards to having the U.S. annex Canada, Australia, and New Zealand?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @dfordoom
  100. Anon 2 says:
    @Anon 2

    By the way, the area of the United States is

    9,834,000 sq km, i.e., about 10 million sq km.

    Hence Europe, China, and the United States all have the same area: ~10 million sq km.
    A nice round number. What a strange coincidence!

  101. AP says:
    @German_reader

    That’s a bit like saying Germany wasn’t defeated in 1918, it just went down because of internal revolution.

    At the time that Germany surrendered it was being thrown back at various points:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Days_Offensive

    It’s news to me that Kerensky offensive is now supposed to have been a success.

    Kerensky offensive successfully drove the Germans and Austro-Hungarian back and ended not because of German victory on the battlefield but by mutiny and desertion by the Russian troops. Only after the Russian troops mutinied first, were the Germans able to advance later. It was an internal issue, not forced upon Russia by the Germans.

    If in World War II, 1945, the Soviet soldiers decided to stop fighting and went home, enabling the Germans to later retake their country, would this mean Germany had beaten the Soviet Union?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  102. Mr. Hack says:
    @Hyperborean

    Yes, you’re right, I have advocated that Ukrainaphobes check into the closest psychiatric clinic for help. Do you consider your Ukrinophobia to be of the class 1 variety or possibly class 2?

    Modern scholars define two types of anti-Ukrainian sentiment. One is based on discrimination of Ukrainians based on their ethnic or cultural origin, a typical kind of xenophobia and racism. Another one is based on the conceptual rejection of Ukrainians, Ukrainian culture, and language as artificial and unnatural; at the turn of the 20th century, several authors supported an assertion that Ukrainian identity and language had been created artificially in order to undermine Russia.[3

    Perhap you suffer both kinds? In any event you can get help, so please look into it and don’t let this nasty thing fester any more out of control. Trust me, you’ll feel much better and you might even begin to appreciate things like a sunny day, the smile of a child, the warm caress of a beautiful woman…

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  103. Talha says:

    The contributions of Central Asians were minor relative to their populations, and their presence often lowered rather than raised combat effectiveness

    Makes sense; why the heck would Central Asians want anything to do with a European war a few thousand miles away from their home? And fighting under an atheist Communist flag at that – seems a fairly silly reason to give up one’s life for. I’m sure the Communists would have loved more cannon fodder, but I can’t think of a single reason why from a Central Asian perspective.

    Peace.

  104. @Mr. XYZ

    I think Australia and New Zealand are too far away. I am skeptical about the ability of countries with large distances between their territories to hold together.

    Just look at how Russia and America still have large contiguous territories while Britain gave independence to their white dominions.

    Of course, modern developed communications and transport may make it easier to hold far-flung lands together than in the past.

    I think that Québec should be separated from the rest of Canada and made an independent protectorate.

    I think assimilation of Canada, Australia and NZ would fairly easy given that there is no deep history of hostiles between the countries and the widespread influence of American culture worldwide.

    It would probably be better to present the unified Anglosphere as a new country than as simply a takeover by the USA even if that is what it would be de facto. Local peoples, even if they belong to a fake nation, can be very prickly.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  105. yevardian says:

    I was prepared to unleash a triggered sovok outburst, but you’ve actually made quite a good argument here, leaving your usual exaggerations about the late USSR aside. As for 5, I don’t honestly see how you can argue an alternative. If the Federation revoked local privileges and pursued your so-called ‘nationalist’ agenda the state would fall apart within months.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  106. AP says:
    @Hyperborean

    So much wishful thinking and optimism.

    Launch a blitzkrieg attack against Maidan government to capture the greater part of Malorussia and Novorussia.

    Invade a country with 200,000 well-armed soldiers and about 40 million people. You’ll win, but it will cost you. It’s not 2014 anymore.

    Leave Greater Galicia as a rump Ukraine.

    Why not keep it and add Poland too, since we are in wishful thinking mode.

    Dump the svidomites in Galicia and seal the border (to prevent hit-and-run attacks and American weapons flooding the region).

    That would be about 80% of the population in a region with 20 million people (central and parts of eastern Ukraine outside Galicia).

    Station Russian gendarmerie in the regained territories to pacify the region (At worst I think it will be like the North Caucasus insurgency).

    After you’ve deported 16 million people it might be even easier. I don’t think Hitler or Stalin even managed to deport 16 million people, but your optimism is noted.

    But if you haven’t deported them, keep in mind that Chechnya only had 1.4 million people, the Russia-hating city of Kiev alone has 3 times that many. So you’ve got about 20 million patriotic Ukrainians living outside western Ukraine, in central and parts of Eastern Ukraine. It’s not 2014 anymore. There are plenty of weapons and 100,000s of these people have been through the army and seen some combat. It will be quite an insurgency. Maybe after killing a few 100,000s of people, or a million or two, you will subdue the place, and then you’ll be successfully ruling a sullen, occupied place like Poland was during the Cold War. In the mean time you will have lost tens of thousands of people yourself, become North Koreaized, and the next time you are in another war guess which part of “Russia” will stab you in the back?

    Encourage Surzhik-like dialects in former Bielorussia and Ukraine (West Russia) to blur the linguistic distinction between the languages.

    Loss of Gaelic turned Irish people into loyal Brits, Englishmen really..

    With the exception of the Scanians of Sweden (who were outnumbered 9:1 by Swedes and whose culture and language were closer to Swedish than Ukrainian is to Russian) no people have as a group switched their fully formed national identity for a new one. But you are in extreme optimism mode.

    I hope you are a bright and enthusiastic teenager.

  107. Yevardian says:
    @yevardian

    Too bad you ruined it with that retarded coda, culminating with this:

    Here are a few real national ideas worthy of Russian civilization:

    The regathering of the Russian lands
    Genetic IQ augmentation
    Atomically blasting Imperial Russian Navy battleships off into space

    -_-

  108. Yevardian says:
    @Bragadocious

    To be fair, they deserve more credit for continuing the war during the years of 1940-1941, when they were almost completely isolated on the European continent, than the Americans, who only intervened in Europe once the Soviets were already winning.

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
  109. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    The rockets initiated the airstrikes, but the airstrikes were probably as pre-planned (Isael already knowing about the rocket attack plans as well).

    Obviously this is the main reason Netanyahu was in Moscow yesterday with the meetings in the Kremlin last afternoon. It seems he had some permission or approval, as airstrikes in response were beginning 20 minutes after he landed.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  110. @Mr. Hack

    I think that you suffer from cognitive dissonance in denouncing people as stalinists while endorsing sovok type repression of people who disagree with you (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union).

    Why would I be seen as a Class 1?
    My proposal explicitly states that Russians should adopt parts of regional Ukrainian culture.

    I hold no personal ill-will against Ukrainians, I simply don’t think the Ukraine should be seen as a proper nation. In the same way, I like Austrians and Montenegrines, but that doesn’t mean that they are real countries.

    I think it is interesting how loyal you are to the idea of Ukraine despite living in America. Which generation are you? If you have any children what do they think about Ukraine?

    Usually when I encounter Americans in real life, even by merely the second generation it seems like they have only superficial ties left to their homelands and by the third generation they are completely American.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Mr. Hack
  111. songbird says:
    @Anon 2

    China is something of an anomaly in that it is a high IQ country with (at least partly) a Southern range of latitudes. Since, it is relatively well-watered, it supported a high population. Meanwhile, rice was not a crop which could do well in Europe. It is an interesting question what would have happened if the potato had been introduced much earlier to Europe, say 1000 AD, or even the founding of Rome.

    As I understand it, the IQ by region in China is relatively homogeneous. Makes me wonder about the fertility – if the fertility is relatively higher in the south.

    It is easy to believe Russia would have had a higher population without communism and the more recent wars, I’m not too sure about the rest of Europe though (maybe more emigration or a drop in fertility) but it is easy to believe the West would have been better off. Imagine if the war dead had only been sent to America or South Africa, or maybe Argentina.

    • Replies: @AP
  112. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Since you almost seem to have a direct passageway to the inner workings of Karlin’s mind, why not share with us what you consider to be some of Karlin’s ‘unusual points of view’ that he expresses here?
    Would you consider his ‘real national ideas worthy of Russian

    The whole thing is an combination of eccentric and unusual, with some comedy mixed. Of course, not only I, but most people in the world, will disagree with every paragraph. But that’s his prerogative – I was not personally offended, or a ‘snowflake’, but just found it an entertaining writing.

  113. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    Your sarcasm is duly noted and appreciated! :-)

    At least this fellow had the decency to express his thoughts more fully, as Karlin sits meekly by pretending he’s somehow above the fray. They’re both fellow travelers going down the same road, as far as I’m concerned.

  114. AP says:
    @Hyperborean

    In the same way, I like Austrians and Montenegrines, but that doesn’t mean that they are real countries.

    You do realize that Ukrainian and Russian are about as different as Dutch and German, and not like Austrian German vs. standard High German?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Mikhail
    , @Bigly
  115. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Now it’s in the news – Israel says it had told Russia about the airstrikes plan before it began.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  116. AP says:
    @songbird

    It is easy to believe Russia would have had a higher population without communism and the more recent wars,

    I’d estimate that without Communism and World War II Russia would have at least 225 million people and perhaps 300 million people. Ukraine would have around 70 million people, Poland 60 million.

    I’m not too sure about the rest of Europe though (maybe more emigration or a drop in fertility

    No World War II alone would add a couple tens of millions of people plus their children and grandchildren. No Communism, no Nazism and no Nazism no left-wing backlash. Europe might have had an American level of fertility.

    Demographically the 20th century was a lot worse to eastern than ti western Europe.

  117. Yevardian says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    LOL, I cringed reading that. Honestly, even I personally have some distaste for how Victory Day is used, the existence of people like Akarlin arguing against it is a good reason to never voice such objections in public, which is perfectly understandable. If Akarlin was really Russian, he’d know that the USSR that ‘Sovoks’ had nostalgia for has nothing to do with the with state pre-Krushchev. Most serious Communist-era figures (eg. Martyanov, probably) privately agreed that Lenin was mostly a disaster, but it simply wasn’t discussed, everyone knew he was important as a symbol, nothing more. Under the chaotic circumstances Stalin did as well as anyone figure could to stabilise the country and destroy the warring Bolshevik factions, educated Russians appreciate this whilst acknowledging he was a tyrant. But of course growing up in America and the UK Akarlin either doesn’t comprehend his own (alleged) country’s history or deliberately ignores such nuances.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  118. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    : Is your elderly in-law ethnically Russian or ethnically Ukrainian?

    Russian, in Moscow. May 9th was always a sacred holiday in that part of the family. But it wasn’t a public event.

    what do you think the role of Eastern European Jews (the ones who would have remained there–as opposed to the ones who would have emigrated elsewhere) would have been in the 21st century?

    There would have been discrete groups: Hasids with large families being a sort of Amish society living apart from others, right-wing Zionists, and left-wing agitators.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  119. @Yevardian

    The Brits weren’t fighting on the European continent in 1940-41. Name me one British offensive against the Germans on European soil during that time. The Brits decided after Dunkirk that they wanted no part of the German infantry. Yeah, there were some minor skirmishes in Africa — utterly irrelevant in the big picture. (though the Brits make a big deal out of them)

    • Replies: @German_reader
  120. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Yeah, I had the impression that the Kerensky Offensive had some initial successes but ultimately petered out and failed.

    It was a success until the Russian troops decided to stop fighting and go home, despite having the Germans in retreat. The Germans didn’t beat them, they decided not to fight anymore.

    Riga was captured a few months later. It was over by then.

    Of course, one could claim that Russia would have performed better in 1917 had it not been for the Petrograd Soviet weakening military discipline with its Order No. 1 and if Bolshevik defeatist propaganda would not have circulated among Russian troops on the front lines.

    Of course. This is why Russia fell, it wasn’t beaten, it “beat” itself. As in the Soviet loss in the Cold War.

    Entering the war in 1914 was stupid for Russia to do – it was too early by about 10 years. But it’s performance was by no means disastrous. The British struggled with the Ottomans, losing at Gallipoli – the Russians defeated them in multiple battles and grabbed about 10% of their territory. The Russians crushed the Austro-Hungarians. So if there had been a Russo-Turkish-Austrian war the Russians would have had a spectacular victory against these two powers. What a difference from the loss to Japan just 10 years earlier.

    And although Russia lost territory to Germany they maintained a front with that country, at least until they decided to stop fighting.

  121. Mr. XYZ says:

    @AP: Thanks for your answers here in both of your responses to me.

    Anyway, I agree with most of what you said, but I would like to point out that Germany was fighting Russia with one hand behind its back. Literally–it had a lot of its forces stationed in the West in order to fight Britain and France there. Had Germany crushed France in 1914 and been able to send almost all of its forces to the Eastern Front in World War I, then things would have almost certainly been much, more worse for Russia (militarily, that is; politically, Russia would be luckier since it would be able to avoid Bolshevism).

    Also, in regards to Russia fighting World War I ten years later, please keep in mind that Russia would have been stronger but would have also had a worse situation in regards to its allies. While France would remain a Russian ally, Britain might very well not (due to Britain’s concern about the European balance of power). If Britain remains neutral or–even worse–allies with Germany (which is possible for balance-of-power reasons if Kaiser Bill doesn’t do anything stupid after 1916), then Russia (and France as well) is going to be in a world of hurt if a World War will break out around 1925. Russia will be stronger, but the changing European alliances are going to hurt it.

    In addition to this, off-topic, but I find it rather interesting that Anatoly Karlin laments the collapse of the Soviet Union. After all, he frequently talks about IQ and about the dangers of low-IQ Muslim immigration, and yet a surviving Soviet Union would have ensured that tens of millions of additional Muslims would have remained within (Greater) Russia’s borders. Indeed, the brain drain which Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus endured would have probably paled in comparison to the effect of having tens of millions of additional Muslims (presumably with a relatively low average IQ) within (Greater) Russia’s borders.

    Central Asia was to Russia what northern Algeria appears to have been to France. Initially, due to the overwhelming Russian/French demographic advantage, it seemed like a great idea to annex the place. However, the demographics eventually turned against the Russians/French and thus the value of keeping this territory became less and less. France eventually withdrew from Algeria and, after the Soviet Union collapsed, few voices in Russia appear to have been interested in reacquiring Central Asia (with the exception of Russian-heavy northern Kazakhstan, that is).

    • Replies: @AP
  122. Twinkie says:

    Thanks to Russia’s loser status, its continued association with loser ideologies, and its catastrophic lack of any soft power (RT and Sputnik exist just to troll Westerners), things can hardly be otherwise.

    Wow, that is rough.

    And those Buryats!

  123. Twinkie says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Intelligent people, such as Americans, speak only one language and are confident that they must protect the world by threatening Russia(mostly by surrounding it with military bases).

    Do you not get Mr. Karlin’s point? We Americans bled the least and reaped the greatest rewards from World War II. That WAS highly intelligent.

    Personally, I wish we had done more of that in Iraq. Always fight with proxies if you can… they are less dear to us than our brothers, cousins, and friends from home.

  124. @AP

    I think that the Netherlands and Scandinavia should be joined together with Germany and I am generally in favour of consolidating European countries so I don’t think that distinction matters that much.

  125. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Mr. XYZ

    Would a similar strategy work in regards to having the U.S. annex Canada, Australia, and New Zealand?

    Why would the U.S. need to annex Australia? We’re already their most faithful most pathetically grovelling lapdog (apart from Britain of course). We’re already part of the American Empire. But as long as it can be pretended that countries like Australia and Britain are independent countries then the U.S. can claim to have allies rather than colonial possessions.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  126. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Hyperborean

    It would probably be better to present the unified Anglosphere as a new country than as simply a takeover by the USA even if that is what it would be de facto.

    We could call it Oceania. Maybe we could call Australia Airstrip One?

    • Agree: Talha
  127. LondonBob says:
    @random rand

    Increasing tensions with Russia and the arc of instability around Europe in MENA has fucked Europe. German Russian rapprochement is the great fear of US foreign policy.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  128. LondonBob says:
    @for-the-record

    No one sane enjoys getting involved in a war but the US was a signatory and crafter of the Versailles peace treaty and the US should have signalled they would uphold it.

    That map shows it was ethnic German areas most opposed to intervention, Ben Franklin had them figured right, Palatine Boors.

  129. utu says:

    Actions of Israel in Syria during Netanyahu visit in Moscow for celebration of the V-day are a perfect and telling illustration for A. Karlin’s points. This Moscow celebration of the V-day is just a facade and masquerade. It was meant for ordinary Russian people for whom the theater was created but now even the theater director must have realized that all he has left is a pretense so just as well he will pretend to enjoy the display as if it was meaningful. Just as well this whole V-day pageantry could have been a product of CGI reality and the tanks and rockets just as well could have been props made of cardboard. Poor Putin.

  130. @AP

    While I am aware that the folly of youth is an ancient theme, it seems that many of the older commenters here at Unz often have a defeatist attitude.

    I may be a teenager but I think that the pessimism that many of my elders have is, while understandable (I too have feel this way at times), ultimately the road to oblivion.

    Throughout the world, the most advanced nations whether in North America, Europe, East Asia or elsewhere suffer from old age, both physically and spiritually.

    Their leaders are generally old and barren. They either have no children at all or one or two children to keep as ornaments.

    I like Macron (though he is childless as well) for the fact that he is willing to carry out radical reforms, even if he is still stuck within the mindframe of liberalism and its limitations.

    As Europeans and East Asians seem to be most tired of races, they have no desire or will to do daring anymore.

    The subaltern races of the South despite many being savages or half-savages at best steadily expand their population and the territory they inhabit.

    Russia, like many other countries, needs a youthful leadership not someone who is too worn down and ruined by defeat.

    Ultimately, I don’t think that the path of inaction that the Kremlin is pursuing now will lead to victory.

    When I say Greater Galicia I mean everything left of Right-bank Ukraine. There should be plenty of space for more people there.

    I don’t think that the casualties are that high. Modern people tend to have a strong aversion to what are historically-speaking quite normal casualty levels.

    As for being North Koreaised America is already doing their best to make that a reality already.
    At least with more land and resources Russia will be able to handle it better.

    Perhaps I misunderstood the situation but I always thought the problem with Ireland was that they resented that the protestant English had very anti-Catholic laws in place.

    • Replies: @Ali Choudhury
  131. Why I am Not Celebrating Victory Day

    Because you’re not Russian and you dislike all things Russian? But we already knew that, no need to write a TL;DR article to remind us again.

  132. @dfordoom

    I think the US’ relationship with many countries is somewhat akin to feudal vassals during the European middle ages.

    While they are able to express their dissatisfaction with various policies and statements and able to get their will on things that they consider important and Washington doesn’t, if Washington really wants something then they either carry it out or meekly stand aside.

  133. LondonBob says:
    @dfordoom

    Probably, Japanese entry, or not, in to the war would have been decisive. Would have been BE fighting a two front war.

    The smart move by Hitler would have been a push to take Egypt, the Suez Canal and open up the oil supply of the Middle East rather than invading the SU. Still issues supplying across the Med with British sea and air power interdicting.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  134. @Felix Keverich

    Otherwise, it’s really dumb idea, dumping money into territories, where nobody wants to life.

    Factually false. Three points:

    a) The Far East has better fertility than European Russia. Despite the lack of infrastructure, it’s a good place to live.

    b) Most of the Far East is warmer than Moscow and certainly warmer than St. Petersburg.

    c) In reality, the cold places in the far north have better population growth than the warm ones. Seems like people actually don’t mind cold weather.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  135. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    You do realize that Ukrainian and Russian are about as different as Dutch and German, and not like Austrian German vs. standard High German?

    So what if true.

    Is Ukrainian and Russian noticeably more different than Han and Mandarin? Never minding the numerous languages making up India.

    Linguistically and ethnically, Russians and Ukrainians aren’t more diverse than the Scots and English.

    There’s also the matter of modern day Ukrainian differing from what was previously spoken and written – a point relating to the Rusyn language having words more akin to Russian than Ukrainian. The Rusyns are commonly defined as Ukrainians, who didn’t buy into having a Ukrainian identity, relating to the effort made to distinguish the developed modern day Ukrainian from Russian.

    • Replies: @DFH
  136. @Mitleser

    They are not less competent.
    But they are not more competent, either.

    I agree but the important point is that the US only needs to be as competent as Europeans and Russians to stay far ahead of them. Americans don’t need to be more competent because they already have control over the global financial system, the strongest military, military bases everywhere, and Europe as their semi-vassal. The playing field is so uneven that the USG doesn’t need to be overly competent to beat everyone else. Everyone else needs to be vastly more competent than the Americans to catch up with them. Even if China was the most competent geopolitical player in the past few decades, they’re still 7 years behind in high tech manufacturing and ZTE effectively seized operations due to the chip ban.

  137. szopen says:

    Now, this is not very representative, but it just came in my feed:

    The poll on Polish history forum: who contributed the most to defeating of the Nazis:

    48%: USSR

    Aaand… 13% Poland 8-|

    I really think large percentage of my beloved compatriots are overzelous sometimes.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    , @AP
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  138. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Even without nukes, why doesn’t Russia launch a manned mission to Mars? The hardest part of that is getting out of Earth’s gravity well, which Russia is already the best at. Getting back would be a challenge, but that’s doable as well.

    Maybe that would get America off of its ass. Another space race would be fun.

  139. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Now it’s in the news – Israel says it had told Russia about the airstrikes plan before it began.

    Should that really be such a surprise? Standing and sitting with Putin for a good period of time, Netanyahu was a featured guest at the May 9 Victory Day commemoration in Moscow.

    A matter which is disturbing for US neocon, neolib and some more left of center of center types, as well as those that see Russia as a hope in confronting “ZOG”.

    Netanyahu and Putin have an understanding:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/10/09/answering-russia-critics-on-syria.html

    http://theduran.com/israels-netanyahu-to-be-guest-of-honour-at-russias-9th-may-victory-day-celebration/

  140. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    There would have been discrete groups: Hasids with large families being a sort of Amish society living apart from others, right-wing Zionists, and left-wing agitators.

    Numerous others as well, who don’t neatly fit into any of these categories.

  141. Seraphim says:

    Perhaps the real significance of the day is given by the ‘Immortals’ marches. It became a ‘Remembrance Day’. It is a duty to remember your ancestors, to sing their “Eternal memory” (Vechnaya Pamiat).

    “People stuck in the past have no future”.
    But it is equally true that “a nation that forgets its past has no future”.
    There is an other reason to that:
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” (George Santayana).

    • Agree: utu
  142. @Daniel Chieh

    It was tried in the Bioshock videogame and did not work out very well there.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  143. DFH says:
    @Mikhail

    Linguistically and ethnically, Russians and Ukrainians aren’t more diverse than the Scots and English.

    This is ridiculous; the English spoken by Modern Scots is obviously more similar to the English spoken in England than Ukrainian and Russian are. Maybe Scots wasn’t, but that hasn’t been the dominant language for hundreds of years.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @Mikhail
  144. @Hyperborean

    A scheme like this might work perfectly if you were sent to the front line as a soldier. Seriously you would be much better off getting a girlfriend and restricting yourself to playing Warhammer than plotting the death and subjugation of millions from your bedroom. Dreams of imperial conquest are pure folly when the strong nations are the richest and most happiest ones, not the warlike barbaric ones.

  145. LH says:
    @Silva

    One of the ideas of Czech anti-Austrian opposition was to create independent kingdom ruled by some Romanov. This kingdom would naturally include more than Bohemia.

    • Replies: @Silva
    , @Seraphim
  146. @Dave Pinsen

    Even without nukes, why doesn’t Russia launch a manned mission to Mars?

    For the same reasons why the USA faked the Apollo landings.

    There’s a huge chance that any such mission would be a suicide mission; it’s highly likely that the spacecraft might crash into Mars or fail to launch or dock on the return liftoff.

    There political and prestige fallout from such a failure would negate any positive effects of a successful mission. No politician would ever authorize such a mission.

    Before we launched a man into orbit we made damn sure it was safe by practicing on dogs, chimps and other assorted animals.

    So landing on the Moon or Mars will only happen once computer technology improves enough to first conduct a test with dogs and chimps, and only then humans.

  147. @DFH

    Maybe Scots wasn’t, but that hasn’t been the dominant language for hundreds of years.

    Neither has the so-called “Ukrainian” language. Nobody speaks it willingly (i.e., without monetary incentives) in 2018.

    Imagine if Scotland paid (or forced) its people to speak a heavily de-Englishized patois. It’s possible and very doable. (Just not a thing that sane first-world countries would spend effort on, but the so-called “Ukraine” is not a sane first-world country.)

    • LOL: AP
    • Replies: @Yevardian
    , @Mr. Hack
  148. Yevardian says:
    @szopen

    Lol… nearly 5x more than the UK. Honestly, if the Germans hadn’t idiotically invaded the USSR and declared war on the US, I doubt Americans would have entered Europe at all.

  149. Yevardian says:
    @anonymous coward

    Ukrainian isn’t widely spoken in the cities, but don’t go and spout bullshit like nobody speaks it without monetary incentives, go west and you find plenty. Ukrainian isn’t Belorussian.
    Personally I think the Ukraine would be much better off as an autonomous entity within Russia, but I get tired of all these people denying its existence. The lady doth protest too much, methinks. It’s a least as different as Danish from Norwegian, the basic words all have different forms, not just an extensive series of slang words like in Scots.

  150. @LondonBob

    That map shows it was ethnic German areas most opposed to intervention,

    The Germans may have been the most opposed, but even in the most “interventionist” state there was only 35% support for intervention. Notably, “Anglo” New England was overwhelmingly opposed — 83% Massachusetts, 79% Maine, etc.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  151. LondonBob says:
    @for-the-record

    Depends on how many said don’t know, how many said actively opposed, oppose but accept need to etc. I actually think 30 percent is pretty high.

    Pre war Florida really was Southern. Anyway a lot of Irish in Massachusetts.

  152. @anonymous coward

    You, Sir, do not have a slightest clue what you’re talking about!

    There is a tiny strip of land in the southern tip of Primorsky Krai, which has temperatures comparable to European Russia. Otherwise this region is ill-suited for human habitation. It’s natural resources can be extricated using automation/robots.

    The tentency in post-Soviet Russia has been for ethnic Russians to migrate out of Siberia, out of the Far East, and into Western and Southern parts of the Russian Federation. It’s perfectly natural when you look at the map of average temperatures. The government shouldn’t fight this.

    Leave Siberia to miners and herders, at least until global warming comes.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  153. Silva says:

    British Empire a bunch of very stable saints: http://exiledonline.com/wn-day-25-monty-python-burning-kikuyu-skit/ .

    • Replies: @DFH
  154. @Yevardian

    Personally I think the Ukraine would be much better off as an autonomous entity within Russia, but I get tired of all these people denying its existence.

    The biggest mistake that people make when talking about the Ukraine is treating it as a single, relatively monogenous entity, as if it was, you know, an actual nation. It’s anything but. There are greater linguistic differences between the Ukrainians in Lvov and Kharkov, than between the people of Kharkov and the Russian city of Vladivostok.

    Which “Ukraine” you are talking about exactly? If you mean Galicia, the only solution for it is be completely eradicated, the way Eastern Prussia was eradicated. It would save us a lot of trouble. The rest of the country already has Russian as its primary language: the мова will die as soon as official requirement to use it everywhere is dropped.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    , @Mr. Hack
    , @AP
  155. DFH says:
    @Silva

    Of course it’s by the anti-British Irish communist, John Dolan, crying about the poor Africans and repeating atrocity stories. They only raped, murdered and tortured 33 British, so I guess they should probably have just been given a free pass?

    • Replies: @Silva
  156. @Yevardian

    The “Ukrainian” spoken in the villages is just an accented Russian with some cute regionalisms. It’s not at all like the official artificial language that was designed to be as incomprehensible as possible to literate Russian-speakers.

    (My parents and grandparents are, or rather were, native speakers of the “Ukrainian” you talk about, this is first-hand info.)

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @AP
  157. @Felix Keverich

    There is a tiny strip of land in the southern tip of Primorsky Krai, which has temperatures comparable to European Russia

    This “tiny strip” (along with Kamchatka, another place with mild climate) is basically the whole of the Russian Far East. The rest is mountains.

    Leave Siberia to miners and herders, at least until global warming comes.

    Siberia is not the Far East. The two regions are thousands of kilometers apart. You’re pretending like you’re some sort of expert, but yet you fail at even basic grade-school geography.

    Moreover, you missed my third point: the empiric fact is that the colder places in the Russian Far East have better population growth. It’s 2018, we finally invented warm clothes and climate doesn’t matter. (Infrastructure does.)

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  158. Yevardian says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I am already agreed with you on the first point. Note I prefixed the Ukraine with an article. If you think the eradication of local languages and cultures is worthy goal, good for you I guess. Are suppose you support the sort of “nationalist” scums beating up kids in Udmurtia for not speaking their own language in public. Somehow people like you and our dear author manage to combine a liberast mindset with the worst aspects of Great Russian chauvinism.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    , @Felix Keverich
  159. Silva says:
    @DFH

    Let me guess: if you hear that English raped, tortured, and killed 33 Pakistanis, you aren’t going to consider it wrong. Right?

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Philip Owen
  160. Mr. Hack says:
    @Hyperborean

    I think that you suffer from cognitive dissonance in denouncing people as stalinists while endorsing sovok type repression of people who disagree with you

    Where have I ever ‘denounced’ anybody for being a ‘Stalinist ‘ just for disagreeing with me? Your cavalier attitudes in misrepresenting somebody’s thoughts are the sign of an overly active imagination.
    In Russian you’d be labeled: фантазёр!

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  161. DFH says:
    @Silva

    Well no-one really cares about Pakistanis raping and torturing tens of thousands of British girls. John Dolan’s certainly never mentioned it, despite having the time to dig through everything the British empire ever did.

    • Replies: @Silva
  162. Mr. Hack says:
    @anonymous coward

    The “Ukrainian” spoken in the villages is just an accented Russian with some cute regionalisms. It’s not at all like the official artificial language that was designed to be as incomprehensible as possible to literate Russian-speakers.

    How would you know? Are you qualified to make such off the wall pronouncements? Sure, your grandparents usage of a local village dialect was probably somewhat different than the standard literary language,but we’re talking about how many yearssince that time has passed? The school systems have insured that young people are all on the same page and understand and communicate in the national language. This process is normal and seen throughout the world.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    , @Gerard2
  163. Yevardian says:
    @Yevardian

    When blood rushes to the head and you commit a dozen typos.

  164. Silva says:
    @DFH

    Just like you don’t care what the British did before the Gikuyu “murdered” 33 invaders. So what’s your complaint?

  165. Yevardian says:
    @Mr. Hack

    He doesn’t. He’s confusing popular inter-regional slang such as Transyanka and the like, which the uneducated take for the actual language.

  166. Mr. Hack says:
    @anonymous coward

    The “Ukrainian” spoken in the villages is just an accented Russian with some cute regionalisms. It’s not at all like the official artificial language that was designed to be as incomprehensible as possible to literate Russian-speakers.

    More of your same fantasy laden BS? Where do you come up with this crock of BS anyway?

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  167. Mikhail says: • Website
    @DFH

    If anything, you’re being ridiculous. Without apparently knowing it, you’re acknowledging that the Anglicization of Scotland is a greater reality than the Russification of the recent (in historical terms) national entity known as Ukraine. That aspect doesn’t disprove what I said.

  168. Mr. Hack says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Which “Ukraine” you are talking about exactly? If you mean Galicia, the only solution for it is be completely eradicated, the way Eastern Prussia was eradicated.

    You’ll need to ‘eradicate’a lot more than just Galicia. This is a complete misnomer that the Ukrainian language and pride in Ukrainianess is limited to Galicia. Looks like you’ll have to reestablish the gulag system, in order to ‘eradicate’ the millions of people that you’re talking about, Mr. Ukrainophobe. Even Stalin saw the folly in trying to do something as stupid as that, tovarishch!

  169. @Mr. Hack

    Where do you come up with this crock of BS anyway?

    Personal experience, mate. Unlike you, I’m an actual ethnic “Ukrainian”.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  170. iffen says:

    If a Russian can’t celebrate the defeat of Nazism and Hitler then he doesn’t need to celebrate anything at all.

    If Belorussians and Ukrainians don’t celebrate Victory Day, I would take that as a serious clue that they don’t want to be or think of themselves as Russians.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  171. @AP

    Kerensky offensive successfully drove the Germans and Austro-Hungarian back and ended not because of German victory on the battlefield but by mutiny and desertion by the Russian troops

    When morale in your army is so low that soldiers start mutinying and deserting during an offensive (and iirc they started doing that already after only a few days/weeks), that’s a pretty strong sign imo that, contrary to your assertion, the Russian army in 1917 wasn’t capable of winning anything. Morale and willingness to fight must surely rank as one of the most crucial aspects of any fighting force.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  172. @Mr. Hack

    I didn’t say that you call people Stalinists ‘just for disagreeing with you’.

    I said that your usage of the word ‘Stalinist’ has a negative connotation – yet you share the same eerie obsession with punitive mental hospitals as the Soviets did. You don’t find this odd?

    I would assume these tendencies to be contradictory. This is what I meant. Perhaps I should formulate my sentences better but it would also behoove you to read other people’s comments from different angles to better understand their intentions.

    While I don’t agree with Keverich’s comments about eradicating Galicia – unlike the rest of the Ukraine I think that Galicia and the surrounding areas have a genuine identity and should be allowed to develop in their own way – I don’t think that he is a Stalinist and that that is an inaccurate moniker for him.

    If you called him a Great Russian chauvinist or imperialist or other similar words then I could see your point of view.

    I think linguistic accuracy is an important thing to aim for, particularly in this era where words are frequently disconnected from what they have traditionally and commonly meant.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @AP
  173. @Bragadocious

    The Brits weren’t fighting on the European continent in 1940-41

    British forces were in mainland Greece and Crete in 1941.

  174. @anonymous coward

    I’m no expert, but I’m clearly smarter and better educated than you’re. What kind of clown calls Kamchatka a “place with mild climate”? You might want to visit it during winter. lol

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  175. Seraphim says:
    @LH

    These ideas have been put forward in 1869 by Nikolai Danilevsky in a famous book “Russia and Europe”. Discussing the possible political combinations which would occur after the dissolution of the Austrian and Ottoman Empires he suggested the creation of a Confederation directed by Rusia from Constantinople comprising:
    1. A Bohemian Kingdom, including Moravia and the ‘north-western part of Hungary (Slovakia) with 9 million inhabitants.
    2. A Serbo-Croat Kingdom including Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Herzegovina, North Albania, the Banat, Croatia, Slavonia, Dalmatia, Carintia,, Styria up to the Drava, with 8 million inhabitants.
    3. A Kingdom of Bulgaria.
    4. A Kingdom of Romania, including the south of Bukovina, Transylvania up to the river Mures, parts of Bassarabia (today’s Republic of Moldova). Russia would have taken in compensation the Danube Delta and Dobroudja.
    5. A Kingdom of Greece, including Tessalia, Epiros, the south-west of Macedonia, the islands of the Aegean, the shores of Asia, Crete, Rhodos and Cyprus.
    6. A Magyar Kingdom, comprising the parts of Hungary and Transylvania inhabited by Hungarians
    7. The territory of Tsargrad (Constantinople), with parts of Rumelia, the Asiatic shore of the Bosphorus, Marmara and the Dardanelles, Gallipoli Peninsula and the island of Tenedos.

  176. @iffen

    I don’t get it: a Russian is obligated celebrate “the defeat of Fascism”*, but no such obligation exists for Belorussian? Why is that? Last time I checked WW2 was more than just a Russo-German affair. Explain your thinking here.

    Is “Victory Day” a core part of Russian identity or something? I personally don’t want to see Russian identity reduced to bunch of Soviet era platitudes. The Russians are bigger than the fucking “Victory Day”.

    PS: it was always “Fascism”, never Nazism in official Soviet propaganda, because the phrase ‘National-Socialism’ could create uncomfortable associations.

    • Replies: @iffen
  177. @Yevardian

    If you think the eradication of local languages and cultures is worthy goal, good for you I guess.

    I see no value in preserving local languages and dialects. None at all. Particularly when it keeps minority groups from assimilating. There is a natural tendency for the minor languages to disappear. The мова in the Ukraine is being kept alive by the copious amount of government regulations demanding its use everywhere.

  178. Seraphim says:
    @German_reader

    Kerensky’s offensive was doomed to failure because of the breakdown of discipline brought about by the “Petrograd Soviet’s* ‘Order Number 1′ which tremendously weakened the power of officers, giving an over-riding mandate to ‘soldier committees’. The abolition of the death penalty was another contributing factor, as was the high presence of revolutionary agitators at the front including Bolshevik agitators, who promoted a defeatist agenda (and whom Kerensky tolerated considerably more than conservative agitators). Riots and mutineering at the front became common, officers were often the victims of soldier harassment and even murder. Furthermore, the policy of the new government towards the war effort was one of fulfilling obligations towards Russia’s allies, as opposed to fighting for the sake of total victory, thus giving soldiers a less credible motivation to fight” (Wikipedia).
    It was German defeatist propaganda served by its agents the Bolsheviks which won the day.

  179. @Felix Keverich

    I’m no expert, but I’m clearly smarter and better educated than you’re. What kind of clown calls Kamchatka a “place with mild climate”?

    The kind of clown who has actually been there. Kamchatka has a mild, atlantic climate. Very wet and foggy without serious temperature extremes. (Think Seattle.) The average January temperature there is -7 degrees, only one degree colder than Moscow.

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B5%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA-%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9#%D0%9A%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82

    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82_%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B2%D1%8B#%D0%9A%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BC%D0%B0

    Their problem is heavy snowfalls, not cold.

    Moreover, the Russian Far East is a very mountainous place:
    A valley might have a different climate than the next one over.

    (BTW, Siberia is the green flat part between the Ural and the Altai mountains. Siberia indeed does have a cold climate, and also three times the population. Again, cold doesn’t correlate with low population density.)

    • Replies: @utu
    , @AP
  180. Mr. Hack says:
    @anonymous coward

    Since you’re not a Ukrainian, but a self professing ‘Ukrainian’, I find anything you say to be suspect. My mother (a real Ukrainian) told me about people like you, ‘Ukrainian’ turncoats and traitors, slimy people that were in the employ of Russian fifth columnists in Ukraine. She even had a word for such people, so you no longer need to be ‘ananymous’:

    хрунь

    *Хрунь — лайливе прізвисько підлої, продажної людини, запроданця. У Галичині використовується щодо виборних осіб, які зрадили своїх виборців.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @Mikhail
  181. utu says:
    @anonymous coward

    Kamchatka has a mild, atlantic climate.

    On Pacific.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  182. Mr. Hack says:
    @Hyperborean

    I didn’t say that you call people Stalinists ‘just for disagreeing with you’.

    Well, let’s just take another look at the sentence that got me to believe that you were criticizing me for calling anybody who disagreed with me a Stalinist:

    I think that you suffer from cognitive dissonance in denouncing people as stalinists while endorsing sovok type repression of people who disagree with you

    In this somewhat truncated sentence, I do see the word ‘Stalinist’ and ‘people who disagree with you’. I guess it’s altogether possible that you mean something else? :-)

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  183. @German_reader

    1. Morale was low during the periods when Kerensky was allowing Bolshevik agitation in the ranks. When he clamped down on it – for instance, from the July Days to the Kornilov Affair – desertion plummeted and discipline was restored.

    2. By the same standard, the French Army wasn’t capable of winning anything after the Nivelle Offensive in April 1917.

    In reality, what happened in both cases was that the capacity to mount offensives was temporarily broken, but not the capacity to hold a line. A crucial distinction from November 1917, when the Bolsheviks intentionally dismantled the Russian Army and left the way open for the Germans to swoosh in (Trotsky’s “pedagogical demonstration” of winning through defeat).

  184. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    I wanted to return to this topic, of ‘regathering of Russian lands’ with you. It’s really an important one, and underlies and is used as a propaganda tool for Russia’s Ukrainian land grab in 2014 and the continuing Russian supported war in Ukraine to this day. Although we can all agree that Karlin is a proponent of this idea, and frequently likes to bring it up as something worthy to pursue, yet he never goes the extra step to explain how exactly he forsees this policy being put into action? This, as you know, really interests me, for it would more clearly indicate what type of person Karlin really is. Perhaps, his own vision of this process isn’t really very much different than the crude remarks made by Hyperborean, that you’re so adept at analyzing and discrediting? Aren’t you at all concerned about Karlin’s own deeper thought process surrounding ‘the regathering of Russian lands’?

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @Mikhail
  185. Gerard2 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    How would you know? Are you qualified to make such off the wall pronouncements? Sure, your grandparents usage of a local village dialect was probably somewhat different than the standard literary language,but we’re talking about how many yearssince that time has passed? The school systems have insured that young people are all on the same page and understand and communicate in the national language. This process is normal and seen throughout the world.

    We’ve gone through this already with the Yushchenko recordings, you dumb prick.

    This fictitious language is basically an operation fueled by US/Canadian children of rapist Nazi-Bandera scum. Despite that, Russian is still far more spoken in the fake country of Ukraine

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
  186. Mitleser says:
    @Twinkie

    That WAS highly intelligent.

    And only possible because America was far away from the front lines.
    Britain’s case shows what happened if the enemy is much closer.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  187. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Anyway, I agree with most of what you said, but I would like to point out that Germany was fighting Russia with one hand behind its back. Literally–it had a lot of its forces stationed in the West in order to fight Britain and France there.

    OTOH, Russia was also fighting the Ottomans and Austria-Hungary while fighting the Germans.

    However you are right – n 1914 Russia almost certainly would not have won a Germany-Russia war. Just as France + Britain + Belgium would not have won a war against Germany alone. Germany was probably at its peak.

    Also, in regards to Russia fighting World War I ten years later, please keep in mind that Russia would have been stronger but would have also had a worse situation in regards to its allies. While France would remain a Russian ally, Britain might very well not (due to Britain’s concern about the European balance of power). If Britain remains neutral or–even worse–allies with Germany (which is possible for balance-of-power reasons if Kaiser Bill doesn’t do anything stupid after 1916), then Russia (and France as well) is going to be in a world of hurt if a World War will break out around 1925.

    Maybe. It’s interesting whether France’s relative decline would have surpassed Russia’s relative growth and/or whether Russia’s relative growth would have surpassed the loss of Britain as an ally. OTOH Austria-Hungary may have also declined further or been more subject to nationalistic pressure, especially if it didn’t reform.

    Britain supplied 5 million troops in World War I (don’t know specifically how many were fighting the Germans). Due to booming population and improved mobilization and capacity to arm people would Russia’s military be 5 million larger in 1925-1930?

    I suspect if Britain joined the Axis, Russia would lose but if it were neutral or was Allied Russia would win.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  188. Iran is fighting back! Thank you Iran! Even though we are enemies, I will never forget this.

    I owe the Iranians a partial apology. I wish the Arabs had the same sense of honor that the Iranians do.

    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Talha
  189. @Yevardian

    Most serious Communist-era figures (eg. Martyanov, probably) privately agreed that Lenin was mostly a disaster, but it simply wasn’t discussed, everyone knew he was important as a symbol, nothing more.

    72% of Russians believed Lenin to be the “greatest person of all times and places”, so that is exceedingly unlikely.

    Martyanov was not a “serious Communist-era figure.”

  190. songbird says:
    @Twinkie

    Do you not get Mr. Karlin’s point? We Americans bled the least and reaped the greatest rewards from World War II.

    By preference, I will take the rewards of the Japanese. Hiroshima looks pretty nice now, compared to Detroit. Of course, we used to say that Japanese and Germans were lucky to have lost, but Germany certainly was not lucky.

    • Replies: @random rand
    , @Twinkie
  191. AP says:
    @szopen

    The overzealous may be factually wrong, but it is a good sign about Poles.

  192. Gerard2 says:
    @Yevardian

    go west and you find plenty

    …the west…the least populated, poorest and most stupid part of Ukraine you dimwit. Ukrainian isn’t a language, it’s a dialect you idiot. Even the non-modernculture or non-tech-words that Russians now anglicize stupidly……Ukrainians follow identically

    people denying its existence

    25-30% of it are gifts from Lenin and Stalin, Kiev is the most Russian city of all, the fact that a country of “Ukraine” never, ever existed, the fact that it’s only Bandera-Shukhevich-Nazi animal-rapist scum who escaped like cowards in the 40′s and the 50′s courtesy of UK and US intelligence who fund and promote that “Ukrainian” myth , otherwise the whole country would be at least 92% pro-Russian.

    Ukraine is an artificial country that never existed and doesn’t exist because it cant govern itself…and it has an illegal government

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  193. @Mr. Hack

    I’ll use plain language since my meaning apparently isn’t getting across:

    Why do you like to put people in punitive mental hospitals for political purposes? Especially since you have expressed support for Liberal ideals previously. This seems contradictory and not very liberal to me. Does this seem contradictory to you? Yes or no?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  194. To the Russians here: Do you want to fully absorb the Ukraine or are you willing to accept a nominally independent Ukraine under Russian dominance? (open borders, common currency, all Ukrainian weaponry comes from Russia, Russian must be taught in all Ukrainian schools and used as the official language)

    It is important that you respond because it effects my peace plan.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @iffen
  195. @AP

    The RE mobilized 15 million during three years of war; the USSR mobilized around 35 million during four years of war.

    Extrapolating, an RE that wouldn’t have been interrupted in its economic development, but without the totalitarian leeway of the USSR, might have managed to mobilize 25 million around 1925-30 during an analogous period of war.

    • Replies: @AP
  196. @szopen

    Interesting stats, thanks.

    I think this confirms that my intuition that historiographic trends would favor the Hollywood narrative.

    History forum = people who are unusually interested in history, enough to look at the statistics, and the statistics clearly indicate the correct answer is the USSR. (Without disparaging the critical importance of the British/American contribution). Moreover, Poland was itself liberated/occupied by the USSR. Even so, percentage voting for the US is still remarkably high.

    I suspect more Poles already think the US contributed the most (outside history forums), and if not today, then surely it will be true in another couple of decades.

  197. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Which “Ukraine” you are talking about exactly? If you mean Galicia, the only solution for it is be completely eradicated, the way Eastern Prussia was eradicated.

    East Prussia had about 2.5 million people when it was eradicated. This eradication was tolerated because the Germans had genocided tens of millions of people.

    Galicia itself has 4.5 million people. The fully (urban + rural) Ukrainian-speaking regions of Ukraine (Galicia plus Volhynia plus Bukovyna and Trtanscarpathia) have about 10 million people. Eradicating a region of 10 million people would be quite a groundbreaking “accomplishment.” Done because, I don’t know – Russia wants Kiev? Of course Kiev despite being Russian-speaking is as nationalistic as Galicia. You’d have to eradicate at least 3 million or so of its 4 million people too.

    Of course, outside this region there are another 15 million or so Ukrainian-speakers, living in rural areas and raion centers.

    I hope you don’t complain about Ukrainian extremists who want to eradicate Donbas or Crimea. you are their twin.

  198. @Mr. Hack

    У Галичині

    Galicians aren’t Ukrainian.

    Now back to the topic: every Ukrainian patriot is either Jewish, Russian (from central Russia) or Galician.

    Real Ukrainians know their history and heritage, and are well aware that Ukraine is a failed state and always was. (And always will be. Sad, but simple geography will probably make sure this never changes.)

  199. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Which would have more than compensated for the potential loss of Britain as an ally. Russia would likely win such a war.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  200. @utu

    I permit you to also use the phrases “oceanic climate” and/or “maritime climate”, if that makes you feel better.

    Do you actually have any real objections?

    • Replies: @utu
  201. @Greasy William

    Do you want to fully absorb the Ukraine or are you willing to accept a nominally independent Ukraine under Russian dominance?

    The clay itself is not really needed now in 2018. Just wait for things to deteriorate according to the usual historical Ukrainian custom, and let the smart fraction gradually move east.

  202. Vendetta says:

    [fedorashrek.jpg]

  203. for treating Ukrainophobia have left an indelible imprint with some of the readers at this blog

    Well at least Anatoly thinks that the Ukrainians are fellow Russians and has condemned the Soviet crimes against them. But some of the other Russians here really sound like they want Ukrainians to just disappear.

    I think that Ukrainians and Russians should work out a solution that makes both sides happy. No need to bring Europe or the US into it.

  204. Mr. Hack says:
    @Hyperborean

    Quite simply, I find that people who suffer from Ukrainophobia or any other form of xenophobia should seek out treatment for these sorts of disorders. Although xenophobia is not in itself defined as a psychotic disorder, manifestations of its wholesale embrace often points to deeper psychological problems:

    To continue perceiving extreme racism as normative and not pathologic is to lend it legitimacy. Clearly, anyone who scapegoats a whole group of people and seeks to eliminate them to resolve his or her internal conflicts meets criteria for a delusional disorder, a major psychiatric illness.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071634/

    I’m no medical doctor (just another hack with an opinion), however am pleased to see that my somewhat jaundiced and extravagant prescriptions for treating Ukrainophobia have left an indelible imprint with some of the readers at this blog.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  205. AP says:
    @anonymous coward

    The kind of clown who has actually been there. Kamchatka has a mild, atlantic climate. Very wet and foggy without serious temperature extremes. (Think Seattle.)

    It’s interesting that almost everything you write is complete nonsense. Felix’s nonsense is mostly limited to anything to do with Ukraine, in your case it is a universal problem. Your existence supports the argument that some people should not have been taught how to read and write.

    The climate of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, in the mildest Pacific shore region of Kamchatka, has an average high temperature of only -5 c (23 F) and average low of -10 c (14 F) in January and an average 12.5 C (54.5 F) in August.

    In Seattle January average high temperature is 13.5 C (56.5 F).

    Summer in the warmest part of Kamchatka is colder than winter in Seattle!

    Seattle summer has an average high temperature of 24.5 C (76 F).

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @Gerard2
  206. @AP

    It’s an interesting what if.

    The main loss represented by Britain will not be so much its Army – though it played a critical role in denting the Schlieffen Plan sufficiently hard to prevent an initial German knockout of France – as its Navy, which was by far the world’s most powerful and kept the Kaiserliche Marine safely bottled up throughout the entire war. This had very bad, demoralizing effects on the German home front – for instance, German soldiers were worse fed than Russian ones in 1917. This would not have been the case without Britain.

    The British and French also played a helpful role in providing munitions to Russia, which was a fairly important contribution, especially during its shells shortage in 1915.

    If the Germans were to knock out France quickly in WW1 1925, I think they would still beat Russia then with high confidence (though not by 1935). France itself would be weaker relative to Germany, and no Britain would make the differential all the more severe; however, Russia would be able to mount a much more powerful push into Prussia by then, which will draw attention from France to a great extent than in 1914, and perhaps even make the Schlieffen Plan unrealizable in principle. If France does weather the initial months, I’d put chances of victory at 50/50 either side.

    • Replies: @French Basque
  207. utu says:
    @anonymous coward

    Yes, I do. To your physical existence.

  208. AP says:
    @Hyperborean

    While I don’t agree with Keverich’s comments about eradicating Galicia – unlike the rest of the Ukraine I think that Galicia and the surrounding areas have a genuine identity and should be allowed to develop in their own way

    Galicia and the Right Bank (including most of Kiev oblast) were the same until the late 18th century, when Galicia joined Austria and the Right Bank joined Russia. I have relatives in a village a couple hours drive from Kiev – they are as Ukrainian-speaking as Galicians.

    Austrian rule meant the Galicians lost serfdom earlier and became literate* a generation earlier than their brothers on the other side of the border. They participated in parliamentary democracy and did other things central Europeans did. This made them more “normal” central Europeans in terms of politics and lifestyle. It also set the stage for a Ukrainian-speaking urban culture. But culturally there were no huge differences.

    *Literacy was accompanied by nationalism. The nationalism taught in Galicia was mostly the work of Ukrainian exiles from the Russian Empire, such as Hrushevsky, who settled in Lviv. It was a nationalism developed in Kiev and Kharkiv by descendants of Ukrainian Cossack officers lamenting the loss of independence/autonomy and Russian rule.

  209. @AP

    The climate of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, in the mildest Pacific shore region of Kamchatka, has an average high temperature of only -5 c (23 F) and average low of -10 c (14 F) in January and an average 12.5 C (54.5 F) in August.

    Yes, that’s the definition of a mild, oceanic climate — very wet and with few temperature swings.

    Summer in the warmest part of Kamchatka is colder than winter in Seattle!

    Of course Seattle is much further to the south and much warmer than Kamchatka, despite having a very similar oceanic climate.

    • Replies: @AP
  210. AP says:
    @anonymous coward

    The “Ukrainian” spoken in the villages is just an accented Russian with some cute regionalisms

    No, it’s normal Ukrainian.

    It’s not at all like the official artificial language that was designed to be as incomprehensible as possible to literate Russian-speakers.

    Official language was based on village speech of Poltava oblast, which was the ethnically purest part of Ukraine in the late 19th century when the language was standardized.

    For this reason, villagers a couple hours from Kiev speak closer to standard Ukrainian than do villagers in isolated parts of western Ukraine.

    You family probably spoke surzhik and falsely labeled it Ukrainian.

    My parents and grandparents are, or rather were, native speakers of the “Ukrainian” you talk about, this is first-hand info

    Your claims here are as nonsensical as your claim that Kamchatka has a similar climate to Seattle.

    Remember, you said you were in Kamchatka and claimed that it’s climate was similar to that of Seattle. We know exactly what your “first hand info” is worth.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Gerard2
  211. donnyess says: • Website

    I would prefer Russia to be run by a biker gang like the Night Wolves with ‘The Surgeon’ as president. A celebration of Russia as an English speaking Arctic Circle nation…people running around with hockey sticks flicking balls. Certainly would be more interesting than seeing nuclear missile monuments which Putin will never have the guts to use, or soldiers with guns marching down the street which will never be deployed in time to avert a NATO carve-up of Russian eastern territory.

  212. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    The climate of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, in the mildest Pacific shore region of Kamchatka, has an average high temperature of only -5 c (23 F) and average low of -10 c (14 F) in January and an average 12.5 C (54.5 F) in August.

    -10 is far from the lowest winter average in a region of Russia you demented dumb prick.
    +12 is not that big a deviation compared to others. That’s before we get into daylight extremes ( or rather, lack of them)

    Seattle , I would say he’s obviously making a comparison in relative terms to how an American feels about it’s climate, not a literal comparison with Russias coldest regions you imbecile. Cape Town in South Africa is the same

    Too thick to know about a simple concept like temperature range and a million other issues

  213. AP says:
    @anonymous coward

    Yes, that’s the definition of a mild, oceanic climate — very wet and with few temperature swings.

    More nonsense as usual. Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky’s climate is classified not as oceanic but as subarctic or boreal:

    It’s like northern Norway (not even like St. Petersburg).

    Oceanic climates are defined as having a monthly mean temperature below 22 °C (72 °F) in the warmest month, and above 0 °C (32 °F) in the coldest month. Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky has a mean temperature below zero C 6 months a year.

  214. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    Please don’t overlook comment #189. Thanks!

    • Replies: @AP
  215. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    I’m not AK so I can’t speculate on his opinion. As someone else noted, he thinks Ukrainians are Russians and does not want to genocide them, his own people. The Triune Theory hopes that Ukrainians and Russians would have their own pecularities but adopt the same overarching identity – as do Mandarin and Cantonese Chinese. Ironically the Soviets sort of approximated this situation.

    I think his position was very tenable in the 19th century but is too late today.

  216. @Ali Choudhury

    the strong nations are the richest and most happiest ones, not the warlike barbaric ones.

    What are you talking about? Have you not heard of the exceptional United States?

  217. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    [MORE]

    No, it’s normal Ukrainian.

    errmm.no. It’s a dialect of Russian. The discussion is irrelevant anyway seeing a a fuckwit as yourself cant actually speak it anyway

    Official language was based on village speech of Poltava oblast, which was the ethnically purest part of Ukraine in the late 19th century when the language was standardized.

    …another straightforward lie.

    Incidentally not only is it a dialect, it’s a dialect that’s mainly separate by virtue of it eliminating the ‘aristocratic” French-derived words in culture and science, time, dates et cetera that infiltrated the Russian language in the 18th century…hence the pseudo-rural “identity” that translates into these backwards morons in the ( least populated and least wealthy) western part of the country.

    Also incidentally….these lies are only propagated by fucked in the head suicidal spambot troll freaks, who fled in the 40′s and 40′s in disgrace to America and Canada…where they are currently the WORST white immigrant group by some distance, by pay and by achievements

    Kamchatka has a similar climate to Seattle.

    Climate range is what he was talking about you moronic idiot

    • Replies: @AP
  218. anon[241] • Disclaimer says:

    “Russia was slated to be on the winning side of World War I. The Bolsheviks, and especially Lenin, need to take the credit from grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. Conversely, Germany’s defeat would have been all the more comprehensive, making its future resurgence – with pro-Russian kingdoms installed in Bohemia and Poland – all the more improbable.”

    So absurd in these prognoses that it is difficult to know where to begin the challenge. Does the author really believe that Russia could achieve such extensive territorial gains? Install a Romanov as King of Bohemia? No matter the content of the secret treaties with the British and French, they obviously made absurd promises to get allies. Such promises became unreachable in the course of the war. How many Russians would need to die so some Romanov could reign over the Josefs Schweiks? Why should Russian peasants sacrifice their lives for this? Did the Czechs want to have a Russian sovereign rather than an Austrian? Such imperialist daydreams were rendered unfeasible by the prolongation of the war, and were incompatible with the Allied propaganda that presented the war as a “struggle for the freedom of the peoples.” The Romanovs themselves became victims of anti-imperialist and anti-German allied propaganda, which led the Russians to treat Czarina Alessandra as a German spy. The entry of the United States into the war, based on the Wilsonian idea of ​​’self-determination of peoples’, meant the end of many imperialist fantasies, and led the Russian generals to depose the Tsar because Woodrow Wilson did not extend his hands of purebred WASP to a ‘Asian despot’.
    It must be understood that World War I was a monumental stupidity that was absolutely bad for all the countries that participated in it, except to a lesser degree for the United States, which only entered into the struggle in 1917, and had the advantage of having a between them and Europe. With the revolution of February / March of 1917, the imperial projects finished definitively delegitimized. The New Statestman reproduced an article published by The Nation in 1917, which clearly shows the liberal left’s view of war and its unfolding:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/1917/2017/03/1917-revolution-archive-russias-new-holy-alliance

    By the way, around 1917, all armies seemed to be quite exhausted, and there was evidence of widespread dissatisfaction everywhere, even in the United Kingdom. It was the entry of the United States into the war that saved the Allied cause and the Western rulers. But the Americans obviously could not afford to dump huge numbers of soldiers on the Russian front to save Kerensky.

    • Replies: @LH
  219. AK, despite the daft reasoning this article is riddled with, if you’re pissing off “real Russian nationalists”, I’d say you have to be doing something right, so keep it up.

    Also, the great pity of WWI is that the central powers lost. That would, no doubt, have created numerous problems of its own. But it would have afforded a much better chance of avoiding WWII, which makes it all worth it.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  220. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    Climate range is what he was talking about

    Difference between average August high and January high in Seattle is 29 degrees F. In Kamchatka it is 38 degrees, similar to St. Petersburg’s 42 degree difference.

    Maybe in your world St. Petersburg also has the same climate as Seattle?

    Incidentally not only is it a dialect, it’s a dialect that’s mainly separate by virtue of it eliminating the ‘aristocratic” French-derived words in culture and science, time, dates

    So it’s more Slavic than is Russian.

    Ukrainian has fewer French words than does Russian but it has many Polish words and perhaps more Latin words (centuries of Jesuit education) such as raptom (suddenly).

    [MORE]

    There is a reason why you are retard2.

  221. @Ali Choudhury

    The relevance of Bioshock to real-life seasteading is shockingly minimal.

    However, the story of how Bioshock Infinite’s effective failure(and the end of Ken Levine’s dreams) in spite of its critical acclaim is an excellent tale of how aesthetic quality and storytelling in video games can mean very little, while a billion clones of Candy Crush overrun your smartphone.

    I suppose one could blame women for that. I think I’ll do that.

  222. @Mr. Hack

    Aren’t you at all concerned about Karlin’s own deeper thought process surrounding ‘the regathering of Russian lands’?

    See, the beauty of being a chauvinistic ethnonationalist expansionist is that you don’t have to concern yourself with the details. After all, it’s not as if the people who you intend to ‘regather’ (conquer, vanquish, devastate, etc) actually matter in any real sense. The only pertinent consideration is whether you have the power to realize your designs; if you do, you’re a fool not to do it. So I’m not really too interested in their ‘deeper thought processes’ because, if their plans were carried out, none of them would make any real difference to the people on the receiving end.

    I think a more interesting question to put to them is how they would regard an attempt to ‘regather the German lands’ (eg East Prussia)?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  223. @Mr. Hack

    Hostility towards out-groups are a fairly normal pattern of human behaviour through time.

    I am rather suspicious of these people considering that they are made from the same mold as the people who come up with experiments like this (link at the bottom)

    It also seems to deny that people could ever have a justifiable problem with other ethnic groups.

    If millions of say, gypsies or Afghans settled in the Ukraine and began behaving in their typical awful ways should Ukrainians simply be quiet and endure it in a masochistic manner – or would they have legitimate cause to resent the newcomers?

    (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/22/at-yale-we-conducted-an-experiment-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals-the-results-say-a-lot-about-our-political-divisions/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e250f766279c)

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Mr. Hack
  224. @Hyperborean

    I also believe that a persistent belief in imaginary things(animals, voices, countries) is a serious case of delusional schizophrenia; but fortunately Mr. Hack can be cured of such maladies quite well through the regular administration of Thorazine. The chemical lobotomy might have some side effects such as cognitive fog and increased periods of silence, but I am sure that is only an unexpected benefit for him.

    • LOL: Greasy William
  225. iffen says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Explain your thinking here.

    I can’t understand a “Russian” who does not have an emotional attachment to something like the Battle of Stalingrad and the WWII victory in general. By extension, if one is a “Ukrainian” and wishes to deny any Russian identity as a part of that identity, then rejection of the WWII victory is logical.

    Y’all just go ahead and sort it out as you wish, just my opinion.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  226. @silviosilver

    ‘I think a more interesting question to put to them is how they would regard an attempt to ‘regather the German lands’ (eg East Prussia)?’

    Wouldn’t most of this come at the expense of Poland and Czechia? Aside from Kaliningrad I don’t think there are many German irredentist aims against Russia. I don’t think the loss of Kaliningrad would be that great.

    I think Germany would be too busy in Poland anyway to do anything else for many years if they tried.

  227. @silviosilver

    AK, despite the daft reasoning this article is riddled with, if you’re pissing off “real Russian nationalists”, I’d say you have to be doing something right, so keep it up.

    To my knowledge, the only Russian nationalists on this website are me and Karlin. And maybe Spisarevski. The cult of “Great Victory” is a mainstream phenomenon in Russia, but Russian nationalists are not particularly enthusiastic about it.

  228. @Daniel Chieh

    Intelligent people, such as Americans, speak only one language and are confident that they must protect the world by threatening Russia(mostly by surrounding it with military bases).

    We build alliances – they build empires. That’s the difference between Americans and Russians. And that’s why Russia is bigger than the next two biggest countries combined. It’s also why China is bigger than all of its neighbors combined, with the exception of Russia, another empire with world-conquering ambitions.

    • Replies: @DFH
  229. DFH says:
    @Johann Ricke

    We build alliances – they build empires. That’s the difference between Americans and Russians. And that’s why Russia is bigger than the next two biggest countries combined.

    Have you ever heard of something called ‘the Mexican-American war’?

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Gerard2
  230. @Twinkie

    We Americans bled the least and reaped the greatest rewards from World War II. That WAS highly intelligent.

    It was highly-fortuitous because we were the furthest away of the major powers from the military threat. Apart from Canada, every other major combatant in ETO participated because it was attacked. The “rewards” we reaped were a consolation prize.

    We lost 400K men fighting and 2 years worth of output fighting WWII. That’s $40T. Calculated the way Trump does it, by multiplying the base number 7x to account for follow-on medical care, disability pensions, and so on, the number would be $280T in today’s dollars. It was a poisoned chalice, made possible by Russian deceit and collaboration with Hitler, and British and French nonchalance in the face of German rearmament, and well as a supine European reaction to the Japanese invasion of China, despite their extensive holdings in the region.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  231. AP says:
    @DFH

    Two countries fighting over mostly uninhabited territory to decide who will eventually settle it.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  232. iffen says:
    @Greasy William

    I heard that if Trump bombs Iran before he croaks, McCain will send him an embossed invitation to his funeral and demand that he be the main speaker as the greatest Prez of all times.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  233. @iffen

    I always said that Trump would attack Iran no matter what. Hopefully now German_reader, Reiner and Randal will admit that I was right and they were wrong to subject us to long winded posts about the US would never leave the nuclear agreement or attack Iran.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  234. @AP

    It was clearly a war of aggression by the US though which was deliberately engineered by president Polk. Even at the time many (e.g. Henry Clay, Ulysses S. Grant) regarded it as a dubious or downright immoral venture.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @random rand
  235. @iffen

    I can’t understand a “Russian” who does not have an emotional attachment to something like the Battle of Stalingrad and the WWII victory in general.

    I was born long after the war was over, and emotional attachment to WW2 doesn’t come naturally to me. I know that too many people died – it was worse than a tragedy, unprecendented national catastrophy, so what exactly are we celebrating here?

    I can honestly tell you that I don’t get the Victory Day. This holiday is one of the more obnoxious elements of Soviet legacy, that I would love to go away.

    • Replies: @Pavlo
  236. AP says:
    @German_reader

    Correct, but it was fighting over claimed but largely uninhabited territory. At the time of the American conquest, California had only about 8,000 Mexicans/Spaniards, there were basically zero Mexicans/Spaniards in Nevada and Utah (in that case, it was like fighting over who owns parts of Antarctica).

    New Mexico had a small but significant Spanish population (47,000 people) but these people were different from Mexicans and not entirely fond of them either:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_of_1837_(New_Mexico)

    Indians seemed to like neither Mexicans/Spaniards nor Americans.

  237. Talha says:
    @Greasy William

    Iran is fighting back!

    They can’t do much – they only have a small expeditionary force in Syria with only the air cover that Russia feels like providing. They’ll bide their time until it makes sense to do something (if anything). At the end of the day, Israel has deemed it very important to control any threats to itself across the border in Syria. Though I don’t agree with them violating Syrian airspace, they have a serious dog in the fight. From Iran’s perspective; Syria is good to have as an ally in the region so they will help the regime stay alive – however, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is worth it for them to have a military satellite presence in the area unless it helps in achieving the first goal.

    I wish the Arabs had the same sense of honor

    They should outsource their defense to the Turks. Let the Turks have command & control and run it with sizeable Turkish garrisons backed by local forces that pulled from soldiers that can make the cut, not village conscripts. Yeah it’s neo-Ottomanism, but current state of affairs sure isn’t working. Turks will do a better job and it’ll be cheaper.

    Then they might even get pseudo-NATO protection.

    Second; plenty of the Arab elites would love to pal around with the Israelis, it’s the Arab street that keeps them from doing so. Don’t expect anything from the Arab nations until their leadership reflects more of what the street sentiment is. The elite know that any war with the Israelis means a possible decapitation of their government. Furthermore, even if they are able to start winning, Israel will simply deploy nukes over multiple major Arab cities; it’ll be the worst victory in history.

    This is one of those fights that is won over centuries. And the win is not necessarily through any battle.

    it effects my peace plan

    LOOOOL! That made my day!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @iffen
  238. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Somewhat related; Mahathir Mohammad is prime minister of Malaysia again. That has the potential of being big news since he has always had international Muslim cooperation as a hallmark of his policies. We’ll see how things play out.

  239. Netanyahoo was Putin’s guest of honor at the Victory parade!
    He was wearing St. George’s ribbon!!
    He was marching in the Immortal Regiment!!!

  240. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    It does look like is it. A question is is this destroyed equipment a paid for system (as in received money in the bank, by Syria through using aid from Iran?), or was it given for free?

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  241. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    Since you’re not a Ukrainian, but a self professing ‘Ukrainian’, I find anything you say to be suspect. My mother (a real Ukrainian) told me about people like you, ‘Ukrainian’ turncoats and traitors, slimy people that were in the employ of Russian fifth columnists in Ukraine. She even had a word for such people, so you no longer need to be ‘ananymous’:

    \\

    That attitude explains the predicament evident in some areas making up the former Ukrainian SSR, as well as the kind of censoring/persecution that has gone in within Kiev regime controlled Ukraine.

  242. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    It’s really an important one, and underlies and is used as a propaganda tool for Russia’s Ukrainian land grab in 2014 and the continuing Russian supported war in Ukraine to this day.

    Crimea has a pro-Russian majority that includes the majority of ethnic Ukrainians in that area. The manner following the coup against Yanukovch is responsible for what transpired thereafter, along with the Western support/downplaying of that Kiev regime culpability.

    Russia has behaved within ethical reasoning:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2018/01/06/croatian-scenario-shortcomings-for-ending-donbass-conflict.html

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/03032014-humanitarian-intervention-undertaken-in-crimea-analysis/

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/twisted-history-against-russia-and-serbia/5390154

  243. @Anatoly Karlin

    [Reposting my earlier response as this is my first comment on this site, and I had not noticed the "REPLY" button -- my apologies to all readers for the duplicate entry with #191]

    Anatoly, excellent article, thank you.

    I have myself made a similar argument for many years now to my French compatriots, as to why I refuse to celebrate May 8th, and make a point to work as much as possible on that day (it is a legal holiday here).

    In the specific case of France, if they were serious about celebrating victory over Germany, it would be done on May 7th which is the day when the Germans surrendered in Reims (northeastern France) for the entirety of the Western Front. The May 8th date was a post-war concession to the communists — one of the many such concessions that continue to haunt the country to this very day.

    As a side note and still in the case of France, the main culprit of this concession was the colonel de Gaulle (he never was a real general, having been appointed “à titre provisoire” in 1940 to represent the Reynaud government during a mission to London), who wanted also to create a false sense of “sobornost” in order to make it easier to (1) keep Anglo-American control of France at bay and (2) allow for the massive post-war “Épuration” where communists and gaullists together murdered many thousands of people including many innocent ones.

    Down with May 8th!

  244. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    At least this year, I don’t think Trump will attack Iran. They will start with America unilaterally imposing their economic sanctions on Iran, although it is some months away (in the Autumn).

    They may pressure oil customers to reduce purchases of Iranian oil, using a quota system like last time – gradually taking oil off the market, and possibly raising the price of oil in 2019, other things equal. The losers will be mainly oil importing countries – including the EU.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  245. @Felix Keverich

    Interesting video. Do we know what piece of hardware took down the Pantsir system?

    That does not bode well for the alleged superiority of Russian AA/AD systems.

    A quarter of century ago while doing my military service in an anti-tank unit of the French military, I several times felt how our lives would be at the mercy of a minor technical advantage of our opponents, in the case of a real conflict, and that one’s chances of staying alive would be to stay clear of the most technologically-advanced assets — as opposed to close or inside them, because they would most likely be the prime targets of the technologically superior adversary. And that was even before the advent of fully-integrated systems.

  246. LondonBob says:
    @French Basque

    Bound to lose some.

    • Replies: @French Basque
  247. @LondonBob

    Thank you for the additional details. Ah! The eternal problem of running out of stones/arrows/bullets/missiles!

    By the way please note the order in which my nationalities are ordered. Clearly, one has precedence over the other — this is by design (“grande patrie/petite patrie” in the federalist tradition of Charles Maurras). One does not exclude the other. I do speak both languages (in addition to my broken English — please excuse it).

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  248. @Dmitry

    Of course it was given for free! It costs $15 million a piece, it’s not like Syria could pay for it.

    My question is what was the point of hosting Netanyahoo in Moscow, and treating him as a guest of honor?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  249. Dmitry says:
    @French Basque

    That does not bode well for the alleged superiority of Russian AA/AD systems.

    Not necessarily. Because the air-defense network is more than an addition of its parts.

    When a particular system is used by a country with a lower GDP per capita than Sudan, and with a lower average IQ than Nigeria – it is not a fair comparison of its abilities integrated inside the air-defense network of the military country that built it.

    • Replies: @French Basque
  250. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Of course it was given for free! It costs $15 million a piece, it’s not like Syria could pay for it.

    Do you have a source? Hopefully this is not true.

    Because with the purchase of the S-300 complexes, I have read discussions that Syria planned to pay for it (through Iranian funding). And other discussions about whether it will be given for free or not.*

    *(Total cost of the S-300 transfer is described as $900 million).

    My question is what was the point of hosting Netanyahoo in Moscow, and treating him as a guest of honor?

    Netanyahu was discussing his plans for this airstrike. He didn’t come because of a ceremony.

    In the same afternoon (yesterday) he said that Putin would not probably limit them.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-israel-russia/russia-unlikely-to-limit-israeli-actions-in-syria-netanyahu-idUSKBN1IA2UA

    And airstrikes started 20 minutes after Netanyahu’s plane landed in Israel from the airport.

    The question is what is Putin’s rationales.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    , @Druid
  251. @French Basque

    Interesting video. Do we know what piece of hardware took down the Pantsir system?

    That does not bode well for the alleged superiority of Russian AA/AD systems.

    You see, that’s the advantage of fighting a war of conquest against the Ukraine as opposed to “fighting terrorists” in Syria. There is absolutely no way Ukrainians could take down a Pansir system. Israelis, on the other hand, have all the best American stuff, and their high IQ soldiers know how to make the best use of it.

    God, how did the Kremlin get into this?! They deserved to be inside that machine.

    • Replies: @AP
  252. @Dmitry

    I certainly do not disagree with you.

    However I want to bring some nuance regarding IQ and weapons systems: the company in which I did the initial part of my military service (what I think would be called “bootcamp” in the Anglo world) comprised only 23-24 year-olds just out of the university/college like me at the time (because as students we could get a deferment from age 20 to age 24 and even 27 for medical students). The NCOs commanding us during that phase certainly had lower IQs than most if not all of us. And yet, they never ceased to be appalled — sometimes amused — by the sheer incompetence demonstrated by many amongst us, at performing the simplest non-intellectual tasks. For example, lighting a fire in the forest with wet wood under the rain, a task that a career sergeant could complete in a matter of a few minutes, whereas us graduate engineers/lawyers/architects etc. were totally incapable of doing in several hours.

    If a real war had been in the cards I would have felt much safer with any of these working-class type career NCOs than with my fellow graduate soldiers…

  253. @Dmitry

    To gain some legitimacy by standing next to an actual international statestman? Whatever it was, it had nothing to do with protecting Russian investments in Syria.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  254. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    There is absolutely no way Ukrainians could take down a Pansir system.

    I would probably have agreed with this, until you wrote it – given your track record about anything to do with Ukraine.

    Remind us again about how Azov are all western Ukrainians :-)

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  255. @Dmitry

    Trump will never attack Iran. But I certainly blew a lot of credibility on the nuke deal which I promised Trump would never leave.

    I’m not disappointed in Trump who we’ve always known was a loose cannon and a shallow thinker. I’m disappointed in myself for believing what I wanted to believe in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I am now basically just a Jewish version of Elijah Magnier.

    which leads to an important question: If you score of triumph but in doing so become the very thing you were fighting against, have you really won anything at all?

    I say “yes”. A win is a win.

  256. LondonBob says:

    Syrians are perfectly capable of protecting themselves, have the tools to do it. Russians don’t want Syria falling in to the Israeli trap of escalating when Syrian only gets stronger as time goes by. Israelis obviously trying to provoke conflict.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  257. @AP

    your track record

    I have a consistent track record of triggering you with my posts about the Ukraine, but no record of being wrong ;)

    • Replies: @AP
  258. @LondonBob

    The Syrian “tools” are generously supplied by Russia. Israeli tools – by the USA.

    The difference of course is that Russia doesn’t print the world’s reserve currency. Should this evolve into a war of attrition between Israel and Syria, we cannot hope to win.

  259. Gerard2 says:
    @DFH

    Have you ever heard of something called ‘the Mexican-American war’?

    The cretin you are replying to must have thought the Panama Canal wasn’t man-made but natural due to plate tectonics…and the administration for it was because Americans “build alliances”

  260. LH says:
    @anon

    Install a Romanov as King of Bohemia?

    This was seriously considered as an option by some Czech political parties, up to 1917. Notably the National Social Party, whose leader offered to turn the party into spying organisation for Russia before the war (this was politely refused), or the big Russophile Karel Kramář.

    Obviously, they looked for a constitutional head of state, not an autocrat.

    Did the Czechs want to have a Russian sovereign rather than an Austrian?

    This is pure guess, but they probably wouldn’t mind. Head of state isn’t dictator, and if the other options are Germanic prince or republican experiment, then it doesn’t look that bad.

    Interestingly, the pro-Austrian side wasn’t just the usual mix of reactionaries (catholic parties, big landowners), but also social-democrats, who saw Austria-Hungary as convenient vehicle for revolutionary changes, and petty nationalism as obstacle to this dream.

  261. @Gerard2

    25-30% of it are gifts from Lenin and Stalin, Kiev is the most Russian city of all, the fact that a country of “Ukraine” never, ever existed, the fact that it’s only Bandera-Shukhevich-Nazi animal-rapist scum who escaped like cowards in the 40′s and the 50′s

    Forgot to take meds, eh ….

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  262. @German_reader

    And lets not forget Hawaii. China should list Hawaii as a separate territory for their airlines. I honestly don’t understand people who go on about how US isn’t an empire and forms alliances instead. Apparently they don’t grasp the fact that the USG’s idea of alliance is the US doing whatever it wants while telling their “allies” to go fuck themselves and toe the line. France and Germany have businesses in Iran? Too bad. Unfortunately Europe will probably cave.

  263. @songbird

    Not that Detroit isn’t complete shit, but I highly doubt Japan’s reward is all that great. Spandrell is basically right about Japan. The whole place is in a death spiral and in reality it is a USG puppet. Japan is completely non-competitive in the long run. Japan’s true interests lie in sticking with other East Asian countries, China and South Korea. Unfortunately, it just so happens that South Korea and Japan are both USG vassals. I think the reason Shinzo Abe constantly LARPs about the return of the Imperial Japanese Empire is because in reality he knows he’s USG’s little bitch and he LARPs to make himself feel better.

  264. Regarding WWII, I’ve long since come to the conclusion that in the case of Germany & Japan, it was some sort of cognitive dissonance for their behavior. Of course, resentment from WWI, anti-whatever ideology, weird ideas about life & everything…. but any analysis shows that it was a big historical blunder.

    I may disagree with historian Hanson on many points re modern history, but his points are, in my opinion, irrefutable:

  265. Druid says:
    @Dmitry

    And airstrikes started 20 minutes after Netanyahu’s plane landed in Israel from the airport.

    The question is what is Putin’s rationales.

    He’s using Israel to cut Iran’s influence in Syria down to size. Russia and Iran are allies (by definition, of convenience), not friends. There are plenty of background differences between Russia and Iran, including on territorial issues, with Iran probably harboring a mess of resentments re the excision of the Caucasian parts of the Persian empire by Russia, with pieces currently in Russia itself, and other parts (like Armenia and Azerbaijan) currently independent of Iran. According to Lieberman, Iran has spent $13b in Syria, an amount that should buy Teheran an outsized role in Syria. By vaporizing a good number of Iranian installations, Israel has just increased Russia’s influence in Syria. Once the danger to Assad is mostly gone, I suspect Putin would be thrilled to see every last Iranian or Iranian-paid mercenary in Syria killed.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Felix Keverich
    , @iffen
  266. iffen says:
    @Talha

    however, that doesn’t necessarily mean it is worth it for them to have a military satellite presence in the area

    We can count on Talha to remain partisan with regards to Islam, but to also look at the “big picture” in an even handed manner. I like it. I want to be this way when I grow up.

    • Replies: @Talha
  267. Mr. XYZ says:

    @AP: I largely agree with what you and Anatoly Karlin wrote about an alternate World War I which breaks out in 1925.

    That said, though, out of curiosity–do you think that, if Russia and/or France ever got desperate in an alternate World War I, they’d try launching unrestricted submarine warfare against Britain (assuming that Britain would fight on the Central Powers side in this alternate World War I, that is) in an attempt to strangle Britain and thus cause Britain to withdraw from this war and to make peace? Basically, I am curious about this considering that, if France and/or Russia launch unrestricted submarine warfare against Britain (and perhaps against Germany as well), this could bring the United States into the war on the side of the Central Powers.

    Also, it’s worth noting that, if Britain fights on the side of the Central Powers in an alternate, later World War I, Italy would either remain neutral or also fight on the side of the Central Powers. After all, Italy was dependent on 90% of its coal from British imports and thus there is no way that Italy would antagonize Britain regardless of how badly it would have wanted certain Austrian territories.

    In addition to this, out of curiosity–what kind of peace do you think that the Anglo-Germans would inflict on Russia and France had they won an alternate World War I which began ten years later (as in, in 1925)? Would they force Russia to sign a Brest-Litovsk-style peace treaty and force France to give up iron ore-rich Briey and Longwy as well as all of its colonies plus Algeria? Or would the peace treaty be milder than that?

  268. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I have a consistent track record of triggering you with my posts about the Ukraine, but no record of being wrong

    Almost everything you’ve ever written about Ukraine has been wrong. One of many examples -

    You wrote:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/military-spending-in-2017/#comment-2316166

    “Ukrainian Neo-Nazi paramilitaries such as the so-called Donbass and Azov “batallions” are indeed Ukrainian, but they are not native to Donbass. They originate from Western parts of the Ukraine. You know, the same way Panzer Army Afrika was not actually African. lol”

    Reality, lol:

    The Azov Battalion has its roots in a group of Ultras of FC Metalist Kharkiv named “Sect 82″ (1982 is the year of the founding of the group).[18] “Sect 82″ was (at least until September 2013) allied with FC Spartak Moscow Ultras.[18] Late February 2014, during the 2014 Ukrainian crisis when a separatist movement was active in Kharkiv, “Sect 82″ occupied the Kharkiv Oblast regional administration building in Kharkiv and served as a local “self-defense”-force.[18] Soon, on the basis of “Sect 82″ there was formed a volunteer militia called “Eastern Corps”

    It’s leader is a native of Kharkiv, born and grew up there:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Biletsky_(politician)

    Born in 1979 in Kharkiv, Soviet Union, Biletsky’s father Yevhen Mykhailovych Biletsky hailed from an old Cossack family that founded the village of Krasnopavlivka (Lozova Raion), while Biletsky’s mother Olena Anatolivna Biletsky (née Lukashevych) descended from a noble family from Zhytomyr region, to which belong the Decembrist Vasiliy Lukashevich (Vasyl Lukashevych) who founded the “Little-Russian Secret Society”.

    It’s deputy commander, now in charge of Kiev oblast’s police, is another Kharkiv native:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadym_Troyan

    Troyan was born on 12 September 1979 in a village Orylka, Loziv district, Kharkiv region. In 2000 he graduated in Law from Kharkiv National University. Until 2003 he served as an investigator at the Loziv district police station in Kharkiv region.[1]

    Its patron Avakov is a Kharkiv politician (born in Baku to Armenian parents, came to Kharkiv at age two).

    :::::::::::::

    You ran away to your safe space last time you were debunked on this.

  269. Mr. XYZ says:

    : Also, one more (off-topic) question–if an Intermarium will ever get formed, do you think that it would be a good idea for this Intermarium to open its doors to Israeli Jewish immigrants?

    Basically, Israel is going to experience more and more problems related to overpopulation and many of the Intermarium countries are currently dealing with population decline. Plus, Eastern Europe historically had a large Jewish population and, based on PISA data, Israeli Jews (even Israeli Ashkenazi Jews) appear to be less intelligent than U.S. (Ashkenazi) Jews–something which could help reduce social resentment if a large number of Israeli Jews will move to Eastern Europe considering that there wouldn’t be as much of an issue with Jewish overperformance and with Jewish overrepresentation in various positions and occupations. Plus, many Israeli Jews also appear to dislike Muslims–an issue on which they appear to be in total agreement with Eastern Europeans.

    Anyway, any thoughts on this?

    • Replies: @Greasy William
    , @AP
    , @DFH
    , @utu
  270. @Mr. XYZ

    Anyway, any thoughts on this?

    The Jews are not welcome in any part of Eastern Europe.

    On the “Ethnicities of Israel” series on the Ask an Israeli Youtube channel, the comments on the videos of Polish, Greek, Hungarian, Romanian and Russian Israelis from the commentors in those countries are all pleas for the Jews to stay in Israel and not come back to their former European countries. And in the case of Hungarians and Romanians this is usually mixed in with totally unrelated racist comments against Gypsies for some reason.

    And keep in mind, these are the people in those countries who are pro Israel (or else they wouldn’t be watching the videos). If even the philosemites don’t want their Jews back, how do you think the anti Israel people feel?

    Ironically with the Muslims it’s the other way around. The Lebanese, Moroccans, Algerians, Yemenites and especially Iraqis all desperately want their Jews back even though they hate Israel. The Turks, Iranians and Syrians, on the other hand, hate Israel but also don’t want their Jews back either. Presumably they want them to move to the US or something.

    Russia is less antisemitic than the rest of Eastern Europe only because the Tsars refused to allow Jews into Russia proper, so the Russian people were never able to develop much antisemitism. Once the Jews started moving into the Russian interior after the Civil War, Russian antisemitism quickly ramped up and didn’t begin to die down until all the Jews left. If Jews start moving to Russia, the only thing that will do is turn the world’s largest nuclear power into a bunch of fanatical Jew haters. That’s not what we need.

    Any Israeli Jews who want to emigrate should move either to the Islamic world or Latin America. Not Mexico though because when the Mexican people are exterminated we don’t want any Jews to be caught in the middle.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Mikhail
    , @Talha
  271. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Thanks. There is the way one would like the world to be and a way that it realistically functions. Let’s turn the situation around. Say that the Kurdistan area gains a high level of autonomy and develops ties with Israel (including some defense cooperation) – this is not altogether fantastical based on how the Kurds have worked with Israel before. Israel then sends over certain operatives and electronics countermeasures/eavesdropping crews into Kurdish territory to mind Iran from across the border.

    Tehran is not going to like that and will eliminate the threat with extreme prejudice and with serious force because that is a challenge to the Iranian state and security. They would attack Israeli presence from across the border and actually have the means to do so.

    The Israelis – if they couldn’t get Sam to to fight for them – would have to determine whether it is worth escalating to full-fledged war to simply have a more convenient spy presence in the area. My guess is that it wouldn’t be worth it.

    Peace.

  272. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    It already happens. There is a mass migration of Israelis to Russia over the last fifteen years. And also to other European countries.

  273. Pavlo says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I would love to go away

    Do it.

    Since you can’t seem to produce or convincingly imitate human emotions and attachments, you should probably give California a shot.

  274. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Greasy William

    Russia is less antisemitic than the rest of Eastern Europe only because the Tsars refused to allow Jews into Russia proper, so the Russian people were never able to develop much antisemitism. Once the Jews started moving into the Russian interior after the Civil War, Russian antisemitism quickly ramped up and didn’t begin to die down until all the Jews left. If Jews start moving to Russia, the only thing that will do is turn the world’s largest nuclear power into a bunch of fanatical Jew haters. That’s not what we need.

    A noticeable number of Jews were in fact in Russia proper before 1917. The Pale of Settlement wasn’t totally implemented.

    Actually, for a good few years starting from around the turn of this century, Jewish migration from Israel to Russia was greater than vice versa. Economics was a key factor for that – much like it was during the Jackson-Vanik implemented Cold War years. During that time period, Jews had to say they were persecuted in order to get the nod to enter the US. Also note that a good number of these Soviet Jews came from predominately non-Russian parts of the USSR.

    I know an anti-Communist libertarian leaning Jewish attorney, who had a position with the INS, which reviewed such applications. Along with some of his peers, he sensed BS reasons for wanting to leave the USSR – adding that the rejections for (in his opinion) bogus applications would later on be overturned by liberal judges.

    Over the decades, I’ve spent a good deal more time in White Russian circles than many of the JRL propped establishment types to know that there’re some quite inaccurate stereotypes out there.

    Concerning Jews and Russia:

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/09/21/getting-russia-wrong-again.html

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/12/countering-anti-russian-propaganda.html

  275. Talha says:
    @Greasy William

    The Lebanese, Moroccans, Algerians, Yemenites and especially Iraqis all desperately want their Jews back even though they hate Israel.

    Don’t know about desperate, but yeah – Muslims should be open to resettlement of historic Jewish populations in our lands. My personal feeling is that Jews should go back if they want to retain those specific cultural distinctions; how many generations does a Yemeni Jew stay a Yemeni Jew in the Levant?

    https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/58798/1/HAR_v14_043.pdf

    We’ll even throw in the old synagogues:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdallah_Ibn_Salam_Mosque

    The biggest beef between the Muslim world and the Jews has been Israel.

    Any Israeli Jews who want to emigrate should move either to the Islamic world or Latin America.

    Again, that’s all fine…just stay away from our women, unless you want to convert – then we’re cool.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  276. Dmitry says:
    @Druid

    You’re surely partly correct.

    Although as mentioned by Felix, it is the questionable if this expensive weapons platform was given, not sold, to Syria – it is a loss of expensive equipment.

    And in addition, there is a loss of the image of power projection.

  277. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    if an Intermarium will ever get formed, do you think that it would be a good idea for this Intermarium to open its doors to Israeli Jewish immigrants?

    As long as there are some standards in place supportive of those with higher abilities and capacity to contribute, and they are somehow screened for patriotism towards their new country, why not? Many will be coming back to their ancestral countries. Though there may be some folk-antisemitism towards people who are easily identifiable as Jewish.

  278. DFH says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Why can’t they just stay in their own horrible little country and leave Europeans alone?

    • Agree: Greasy William
  279. Mr. XYZ says:

    @AP: OK.

    Also, by “coming back,” do you mean to visit or to live?

    In addition to this, can you please respond to (my) post #273 here?

    @DFH: Well, there’s probably going to be a lack of living space in Israel.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Dmitry
  280. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I wrote a few weeks ago that it could be partly the situation where if Assad is failing, then strong Iran in Syria is desirable from the Kremlin perspective. But if Assad is secure, then strong Iran in Syria becomes not so desirable.

    There is best case scenario for Syria (Assad survives) and a worse case Syria (Assad does not survive), from Kremlin perspective.

    In a situation where the best case scenario is achieved, then strong Iran in Syria is probably less desirable, as it reduces the final prize (power/influence over Syria). However, strong Iran in Syria also reduces the probability of the worst case Syria (Assad does not survive).

    At the same time, Israel destroying expensive equipment and weakening image of power projection is a negative. So the Kremlin view is confused of how to react.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  281. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    The part about Italy makes sense. I don’t think France or Russia would have had much to do with submarines, however.

  282. @Dmitry

    At the same time, Israel destroying expensive equipment and weakening image of power projection is a negative. So the Kremlin view is confused of how to react.

    Israel hasn’t destroyed any expensive Russian made equipment. They only tried to once and then Putin stopped them. And even those were only s-200s which even Russia admits are trash.

    Nobody outside of the internet thinks that Russia looks weak. Russia promised to protect Assad and they have done so. They never promised to protect Iranian bases. These Israeli attacks have done literally 0 to slow down the destruction of the rebels which is the only thing Russia cares about.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  283. Dmitry says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    They’re emigrating in quite large numbers to Russia – and also in Canada, America, Australia and some European countries (depending on background), even some go to Ukraine.

    As for lack of space. Even in cities, most of the old buildings are three stories, and there is a lot of space for increase. In addition, half the country (the whole South) has not yet been developed and is almost non-populated.

    The problem in Israel at the moment is lack of transportation infrastructure for travelling from non-center areas to center areas – which makes it very difficult to travel to work in center areas. In addition, leading to rapid price rises for even low level accommodation in center areas. And even within the cities there is complete insufficiency of public transportation. At the same time, now recently entering too many cars and traffic.

  284. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    The equipment being destroyed in the video from last night posted above, is very expensive. The issue of whether it was purchased by Syria or given to them for free (the worse case scenario), hasn’t been answered.

  285. That was one battery! And it was done in retaliation for the SAA shelling an Israeli position in defiance of Putin’s orders.

    This brings up something that really doesn’t get enough attention: the S-300, S-400, Pantsir’s and Tor were never meant to be stand alone systems. They are meant to be used in conjunction with fighter aircraft and extended range ground to ground missiles to minimize the danger from air attack long enough for the ground forces to mobilize and conquer the enemy bases from which the attacks are originating. Syrian air defense is not designed to deal with comprehensive and sustained air strikes.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  286. Mr. Hack says:
    @Hyperborean

    If millions of say, gypsies or Afghans settled in the Ukraine and began behaving in their typical awful ways should Ukrainians simply be quiet and endure it in a masochistic manner – or would they have legitimate cause to resent the newcomers?

    A poor analogy when comparing the Ukrainophobic slant of many (not all) of the commenters at this blog. What have the Ukrainians done to the Russians to elicit such hateful opinions? Rebelling against their former imperial masters should be taken in stride. Other empires have fallen apart and the resulting nationalities have gone their own ways amicably. Why can’t the Russians grow up and stop trying to play ‘Big Brother’ to the Ukrainians? First it was the empire builders, then the commies and now we have the nationalists, different masks hiding the same hateful faces.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  287. @Mr. Hack

    Considering that Lenin set up a separate Republic for the Ukraine and encouraged people to speak Ukrainian, I don’t think that they should be used as an example of Russians hating Ukrainians.

    All people suffered in the USSR and the difference of suffering between Russians and Ukrainians is not that different.

    Ukrainian nationalism has a history of being used as a weapon by foreign nations and Ukrainian nationalism currently serves as a weapon for America.

    While I can’t speak for the other commentators, I think the defeat and either the reform or dissolution of America is necessary for all self-respecting nations since the USA is constantly at work undermining other countries through social liberalism, ethnic agitation or simply forcing them to discard their national interests, whether they are enemies like Iran or even loyal allies like Poland.

    Since Ukrainian nationalists have shown even before the Maidan crisis that they are willing to collaborate with Washington I don’t think that this is a simple claim of wanting to be left alone.

    Whether you like it or not, by acting as America’s ally Ukrainian nationalists have proven that they are simply a local subsidiary of the worldwide American empire.

    This is why I pity these Azov types, because even if they win in the Donbass and retake the Crimea, America will do its best to make that victory as sour as lemons.

    A recent example of what I am talking about: https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-signs-law-to-recover-jewish-property-from-holocaust-1.6075141?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

  288. relations between Putin supporting Russians and the Russophiles have hit an all time low: https://southfront.org/video-israeli-missile-destroys-syrias-pantsir-s1-air-defense-system/#disqus_thread

    I used to talk about exterminating the Russophiles, but it appears they are exterminating themselves.

    I wonder what The Saker thinks about Putin these days? Putin is very anti communist and never has even pretended to care about Eurasianism. And Putin is certainly no friend of the gays.

    • Replies: @Jayce
    , @Johnny Rico
  289. Some memoirs by the German generals about the Eastern Front were fair.

    See for instance PECULIARITES OF RUSSIAN WARFARE by the Austrian panzer general Erhard Raus: http://allworldwars.com/Peculiarities-of-Russian-Warfare-by-Erhard-Raus.html

    The piece is full of high praise for the Russians. The common Russian soldier is described as extremely courageous and adept at living with the land, though not technically proficient or independent as German soldiers were (probably true). The Russian high command is described as being of superb quality from the very beginning. The NCOs and lower officers come in for criticism however.

    The piece also has quite a lot of fascinating information about Russian terrain and weather, and it even has interesting information about beasts of burden. The section on reindeer is particularly interesting.

    Erich von Manstein’s Lost Victories is also fair to the Russians–the main target unfairly maligned is the H-man himself, as von Manstein’s thesis is that if only he had been given absolute power Germany surely would have won the war. In reality the H-man’s decisions were not unreasonable until 1944.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @AP
  290. Jayce says:
    @Greasy William

    Very telling that the same kinds of people who shouted down anyone who didn’t appreciate the 17d chess brilliance of Minsk II as a “sixth columnist” and “provocateur” are far more pissed off about Syria.

  291. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Some memoirs by the German generals about the Eastern Front were fair.

    See for instance PECULIARITES OF RUSSIAN WARFARE by the Austrian panzer general Erhard Raus: http://allworldwars.com/Peculiarities-of-Russian-Warfare-by-Erhard-Raus.html

    The piece is full of high praise for the Russians. The common Russian soldier is described as extremely courageous and adept at living with the land, though not technically proficient or independent as German soldiers were (probably true). The Russian high command is described as

    Just seems a text of an incredibly primitive kind of racism. The general may have professional competence, but this racist ranting – something completely idiotic.

  292. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    @The biggest beef between the Muslim world and the Jews has been Israel.

    But what if Israel and the Saudis bury the hatchet, as it looks increasingly likely and decide to ‘return to the status quo on the Temple Mount’? Consider the possible scenario: The Dome of the Rock would become the common temple of the two ‘Abrahamic religions’.
    Sounds farfetched? Listen to this:

    “Status Quo? The Dome of the Rock was Built for Jews”.
    @http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/187636

    “In any event, latest research regarding the construction of the Dome of the Rock – the magnificent structure that stands atop the site of the Holy of Holies – shows that it was originally built not for Muslims at all. Rather, it was built for the Jewish People!
    We herewith present the sources for this novel concept. The late Rabbi Shlomo Goren, a Temple Mount expert and Chief Rabbi of the IDF and later of Israel, wrote in his classic work “The Temple Mount” (Ha’Idra Rabba Publications, Jerusalem, 2005, 2nd ed., p. 327) as follows:

    “The Al-Aksa Mosque [at the southern end of the Mount, opposite the Dome of the Rock – HF] was built as a Muslim house of prayer outside the boundaries of the original Temple Mount, and therefore it points southward towards Mecca. And at the request of the Jews, Omar built the Dome of the Rock sanctuary to serve as a house of prayer for the Jews. This was after the Jews showed him the site where the Holy Temple had stood – and it does not point to Mecca.”
    Rabbi Goren clearly delineates between the two buildings: One is in the direction of the holy Muslim city of Mecca, and is to serve as a mosque – while the other was built without regard to Mecca, and only at the guidance and request of the Jews.

    Rabbi Goren did not list all of his sources, but most certainly one of them was the Byzantine historian Theophanes. In the year 635, he wrote a Greek work entitled Chronographia, an English translation of which was published in Bonn in 1839. The famed English historian Guy Le Strange cited the following relevant passage from the translation in his 1890 work History of Jerusalem Under the Moslems, p.11:

    “In this year [635 C.E.], Omar began to restore the Temple at Jerusalem, for the building, in truth, no longer then stood firmly founded, but had fallen to ruin. Now when Omar inquired the cause, the Jews answered saying, ‘Unless thou throw down the Cross, which stands on the Mt. of Olives, the building of the Temple will never be firmly founded.’ Thereupon Omar threw down the Cross at that place, in order that the building (of the Temple) might be made firm…”

    Le Strange underlines the trustworthiness of this amazing report by emphasizing that the author, Theophanes, preceded the earliest Arab authorities on this topic by more than 50 years. He further highlights that Theophanes lived “considerably under a century and a half [after] the date of Omar’s conquest of Jerusalem.”

    It is thus to be seen, based on apparently the earliest account of the building of the Dome of the Rock, that it was built not for Moslems, but for Jews, and was even supposed to be a “more firmly founded” version of the Holy Temple.
    How ironic it is that this is the true background of the building that now symbolizes, throughout the world, Moslem control of Judaism’s holiest site – and the ban on Jewish prayer there.
    When next is heard a call to return to the “status quo” on the Temple Mount, let it be clear that this means nothing less than full Jewish prayer rights at the holy site – and possibly even much more”.
    What ‘much more’? The obliteration of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre?

    • Replies: @Talha
  293. Dmitry says:
    @Greasy William

    It’s said always that air defense networks are as strong only as the weakest link in any chain.

    In the wider sense, of course this system is designed for ‘point defense’ in an array of batteries and other systems. It is vulnerable by itself, and is never designed to be in a vulnerable situation without defense from other complexes. But is designed to defend other complexes (usually the S-300 or S-400).

    On its own or isolated, it’s just a target for making IDF propaganda video to post on Twitter.

    Hopefully (for all sides) they had paid for it, because the truck in the video cost $15 million (for the same you could buy 5 “Armata” tanks).

  294. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Not sure if I simply take the Chief Rabbi of the IDF’s word on what is conclusive about the structure known as the Dome of the Rock. But yes, it is known there used to be a synagogue there from the earliest times, something that Rabbi Maimonides wrote about; having been chief physician to Sultan Salahuddin (ra) during the time when Jerusalem was surrendered back to the Muslims. This article talks about the politics of the prohibition on Jews being allowed on the site which is a relatively recent phenomenon:

    https://m.jpost.com/Opinion/Should-Jews-visit-the-Temple-Mount-382098

    I’m all for a return to pre-modern norms in this regard; I don’t see why Jews shouldn’t be allowed to worship there if the Caliph Umar (ra) and successive Muslim generations found no problems with it. The site is large and could readily accommodate a mid-size synagogue (and even a church – the Son of Mary [pbuh] did after all walk about and teach there) without moving anything else around. I see no problem with sharing the holy site and hope to see it happen in my lifetime.

    Two points; 1) Saudi doesn’t speak for the Ummah (rarely ever has) and 2) Jerusalem is one thing (a city that I think should be given international status) and Israel is another.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  295. utu says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Intermarium to open its doors to Israeli Jewish immigrants?

    This Plan B for Israel was floated by Philip Roth in his 1993 novel: Operation Shylock. Is it possible that there is something to it? One may wonder where from does Victor Orban get his gall to oppose Soros without being shredded to pieces by media by accusations of anti-semitism and xenophobia? Is somebody holding a protective umbrella over him? The same somebody who gave him the head start in building the fence in anticipation of the 2015 invasion? Perhaps similar question can be asked about Poland and other countries in the region. Poland’s situation is more complicated. Since January this year Poland found itself under a heavy barrage of criticisms from Israel and American Jewish organization. Most people believe that his is about money and Poland must be disciplined to realize that it has to pay for the “WWII restitution” it owes to Jews. Just the other day Trump signed a bill related to this:

    To Polish Ire, Trump Signs Law to Recover Jewish Property Stolen in Holocaust

    https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-signs-law-to-recover-jewish-property-from-holocaust-1.6075141

    Nobody knows for sure how much Jewish organization and Israel expend to squeeze out of Poland, but in Poland even a sum as high as $300 billions is being talked about. Is it possible that this money which may include a lot of real estate will be used towards the Operation Shylock sometimes in the future? It would not be the first time when Poland has financed Jewish repatriation. In 1990 the so-called Operation Bridge was launched to transfer Soviet Jews via Poland to Israel. This operation was financed by money obtained form the largest ever banking fraud in Poland perpetrated by two front men who later left for Israel:

    Poland’s Central Bank Is Rattled by Scandal

    https://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/12/business/poland-s-central-bank-is-rattled-by-scandal.html

    One of the perpetrators/benefactors years later wrote about the Operation Bridge:

    Andre Gasiorowski: Operation BRIDGE – Prologue

    https://agasiorowski.wordpress.com/2015/07/18/wojciech-jaruzelski-v-edgar-bronfman/

  296. British communists express love for state capitalist China:

    http://m.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/2145490/inspired-china-britains-communists-dream?amp=1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

    And from the horse’s mouth on why it is useless for Russia to appeal to foreign left-liberals by using Soviet rhetoric:

    ‘The regime, the corruption, the authoritarianism of modern Russia is not something that appeals to the communist West at all,” insists the editor of the Morning Star, the only English-language socialist national daily newspaper in the world.’

    • Replies: @Bigly
  297. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    It is clearly not about a ‘med-size synagogue’ that Omar wouldn’t have any problem. It is about ‘recognizing’ that the Dome of the Rock is the very ‘Temple’ of Solomon/Suleiman that initially Mahomed himself venerated and that would become the common center of ‘Abrahamic religions’ (without Christianity, which is not an Abrahamic religion. Maybe that ‘son of Mary, the sister of Moses’ walked indeed there, although before any temple, but Jesus Christ said that the temple would be destroyed and not to be rebuilt).

    The Saudis are increasingly warming up to the idea (and I guess that they don’t give a fig of what the ‘Ummah’ thinks):
    “I expect that if peace were made with Israel and the visa and entering and exiting process were made easy, it [Israel] would become the top tourist destination for Saudis. It is one of God’s most beautiful countries in terms of its nature and development. It has combined the spirit of the beauty of the east and west, old and new civilizations. When we have made peace with Israel, exploitation of it will become nonexistent. The government will not accept inciting against it” (Hamza AlSalem, assistant professor at the College of Business Administration at Prince Sultan University in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia). Why would they go to Jerusalem as the ‘top destination for Saudis?

    • Replies: @Talha
  298. Mikhail says: • Website

    No surprise to see this spin from a DC area situated establishment former Soviet (Ioffe, Gessen, Albats type) who admires Meduza:

    https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/russias-strange-obsession-sobibor

    The US establishment wasn’t always so PC sympathetic towards African-Americans. The change is attributed to a more mature and ethical understanding of the past. Russia can’t be given the same benefit of doubt.

  299. utu says:
    @Gerard2

    ….is in fact extremely successful soft power…so successful and too successful that…

    I am not sure if this is an example of soft power or hard power:

    US Government is protecting identity of an American diplomat who [...] described himself to guests as being ‘as hard as Lenin’s statue’

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5704069/US-Government-protecting-identity-diplomat-sexually-assaulted-woman-22.html#ixzz5FA88DFs2

  300. Twinkie says:
    @songbird

    By preference, I will take the rewards of the Japanese. Hiroshima looks pretty nice now, compared to Detroit. Of course, we used to say that Japanese and Germans were lucky to have lost, but Germany certainly was not lucky.

    Yes, but Hiroshima would have looked just as nice (or nicer) without all the deaths and destruction.

    • Replies: @songbird
  301. Twinkie says:
    @Mitleser

    And only possible because America was far away from the front lines.
    Britain’s case shows what happened if the enemy is much closer.

    That’s partly luck, but also partly intentional. Humorously enough, during the 20′s and 30′s, the US Navy was wargaming a potential naval war with the Royal Navy!

  302. Amarige says:
    @inertial

    ‘The main holiday under the Marxist-Leninist regime was always May 1′

    New Year was always the main holiday in USSR

  303. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    In reality the H-man’s decisions were not unreasonable until 1944.

    He started failing by overruling his generals and causing the failure to take Moscow. He also failed at Stalingrad. His many decisions cost Germany the war.

    A nice explanation in this exchange, where Martyanov was demolished (might as well jump in here):

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/top-10-militaries-2015/#comment-1205938

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  304. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    It is about ‘recognizing’ that the Dome of the Rock is the very ‘Temple’ of Solomon/Suleiman

    Yeah, I don’t see a problem in this. I think certain Palestinian nationalists might. If anything, that just seems to make the place even more respected and sacrosanct in our eyes since we love and revere those Hebrew prophets also.

    Jesus Christ said that the temple would be destroyed and not to be rebuilt

    Cool; totally down with this. Again, I was just talking about restoring a mid-size synagogue to share space.

    I guess that they don’t give a fig of what the ‘Ummah’ thinks

    Nope, which is why they bulldozed so many of our holy sites and relics that were preserved since the time of the Prophet (pbuh) in Makkah and Madinah.

    Why would they go to Jerusalem as the ‘top destination for Saudis?

    Not sure but it’s probably better for them if it replaces the current places the Saudi elite travel to blow their cash on fancy cars, $20k purses and high-priced whores.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  305. Twinkie says:
    @Johann Ricke

    It was highly-fortuitous because we were the furthest away of the major powers from the military threat.

    That’s arguable, though the residents of Hawaii and California probably thought otherwise at the time of the beginning of official hostilities.

    Apart from Canada, every other major combatant in ETO participated because it was attacked.

    The US was attacked, too, and rather spectacularly… but pursued the right strategy of eliminating the more dangerous foe first (but only after two allies bled to near extinction to damage that foe). It seems pretty intelligent to me.

    The “rewards” we reaped were a consolation prize.

    The US became the preeminent world power which accounted fully 50% of the world’s GNP in 1945. Think about that for the moment – half of the world’s GNP. Americans became the best-fed, the wealthiest, and the most powerful (and in many ways the most admired, respected, liked, and imitated) people in the world after bleeding the least among the major powers in the titanic, global struggle. That’s not intelligent – that’s genius! And of course as with any victory, there is always the element of luck. But no amount of luck can salvage one’s nation from poor national strategy.

    Not bad at all for people whose soldiers were dismissed as “our Italians” by a British army officer who was captured and interrogated by the Germans (about Americans) in North Africa c. early 1943 (probably in the aftermath of Kesserine Pass).

  306. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    It was not about sharing the ‘space’ but the Mosque itself. Imagine the reconciled Abrahamic brothers worshiping together under the Golden Dome and over the very rock of Abraham, the Foundation Stone, the place of the Holy of Holies, the place where Mahomed was supposed to have had the revelation and where Israfil, the angel of the trumpet, will sound his horn on Resurrection Day!

    Shalom.

  307. Bigly says:
    @Anon 2

    Russia has 17.1 million km² according to Google. If Ukraine is annexed (one can dream) this number will rise to 17.7 million km².

    That’s not far from the US + Canada combined, and leaves the whole of Europe well behind.

  308. @Dmitry

    Wat? Why should we whine about “racist ranting”? Especially when both assessments are correct?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  309. Bigly says:
    @AP

    Using the Russian and Ukrainian languages as a metric to decide whether Ukraine can or cannot be incorporated by Russia is irrelevant when we know that the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians, except in Galicia, speak fluent Russian.

    Ethnically, Ukrainians are closer to Russians than Scots are to Anglos.

    • Agree: Felix Keverich
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @LondonBob
    , @AP
  310. @French Basque

    please note the order in which my nationalities are ordered

    Vincent Lizarazu?

    • Replies: @French Basque
  311. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Bigly

    That and some other particulars have been mentioned to him.

    As I brought up to him (which he later mentions in another context), the Han and Mandarin languages are very much different from each other.

    The point being that examples can be given either way. Meantime, there’s no legitimate denying that Ukraine (at least most of it) and Russia have had a reasoned basis for an extended togetherness.

    Maybe that’s not going to happen again. At the same time, Russia and much of Ukraine are understandably not so distinct when compared to just about any set of two other countries with each other.

    Post-Soviet Russia has exhibited the willingness to recognize a separate Ukrainian state. The hindering factor is the anti-Russian variant among some (stress some) Ukrainians, whose extremism prompts a reply from pro-Russian elements in Ukraine (whether ethnic Russian or otherwise), as well as others, including a good number of those in Russia with ties to Ukraine.

    This very matter is what led to the reunification of Crimea with Russia and the developed unrest in Donbass.

  312. Bigly says:
    @Hyperborean

    I wholly agree with a Chinese style government in Russia.

    No space for social clashes and coalitions formed by dialectically opposed interests, whose adepts join forces out of convenience (there’s no reason vegans or feminists have to support open borders, but they are conditioned to accept disparate agendas if they want to advance their own). Jews are professionals on manipulating dialectics (high verbal IQ) and building coalitions.

    Patriotic and traditional.

    Private property rights.

    Ease of founding a company.

    It was not democracy that launched the US to preeminence. It was geography, racial stock, and the last 2 aforementioned items.

    The rule of law, private property rights and the ease of founding a company are what made the US successful and is making China successful, soon to become #1 despite lacking the putative “democracy”.

    It’s noteworthy that democracy rarely is responsive to the majority’s sensibilities, to the contrary: politicians can be corrupted in so many ways and as a rule of thumb, once the votes are tallied they serve donors and toe the line on topics that the dominant media gatekeepers make taboo of.

    The Chinese system is antipodal to the core beliefs that animate a modern British leftist.

  313. @Druid

    That doesn’t really make sense, not when the US refuses to recongnise Assad as the legitimate ruler, and continues to illegally occupy 30% of the country. The mercenaries we should be looking to kill are the American ones.

    My plan would be to arm Iran and its proxies, so they would stage deadly attacks against Americans, forcing US to withdraw from Syria, similar to what happened in Iraq. IMO it’s a much better plan than becoming Netanyahoo’s patsy.

  314. @for-the-record

    Good analogy. In more handsome than him ;)

  315. LondonBob says:
    @Bigly

    I would be surprised if Russians are genetically closer to Ukrainians than English and Scots are, very surprised.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  316. @LondonBob

    You will probably find greater genetic differences between Galicia and Kharkov. The people from Western Ukraine even look different.


    This facial type is very atypical for Eastern Slavs. I would call it a Polish face. You never really see it east of Dnieper.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Gerard2
  317. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:

    This is doubly insane for Russian civilization, which should not be confused with the entity presently calling itself the Russian Federation, which has always had trouble justifying its own existence.

    Just get rid of the North Caucasian Federal District. They should be their own country and stop being a burden to Russia. Then the Russian Federation will make sense.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  318. Volgar says:

    Thanks to Russia’s loser status, its continued association with loser ideologies, and its catastrophic lack of any soft power (RT and Sputnik exist just to troll Westerners), things can hardly be otherwise.

    This is hardly true when just about the entire non-systemic and semi-systemic opposition in Europe constantly argues for closer relations with Russia and more independence from the U.S.

    Putin’s personal image is also arguably better outside of Russia than inside of Russia, at least among the people who matter (tech-savy youth).

    Russia holds a good amount of soft power capital that an explicitly anti-Putinist coup would let go to waste.

    Second, it deludes Russians into thinking that they died to “protect the world against fascism” or something similarly silly. In reality, they died – due to Communist incompetence, in far greater numbers than was necessary – to prevent themselves from being exterminated by Germans.

    A sober look at WWII doesn’t make for good myths, but the current myth of not only having been the target of an attempted genocide but also the victors over its perpetrators is a pretty good one, because it makes it extremely hard to blackmail Russians with the same WWII guilt that in the West has been extrapolated from specific German perpetrators to basically everyone who is White.

    Also, I would say that the cult of victory is a major contribution to the fact that in the average Russian’s mind, WWII was about themselves and Germans, while the Holohoax was just a side event. It’s a good immunisation against Jewish subversion of historical narratives.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  319. iffen says:
    @Druid

    I suspect Putin would be thrilled to see every last Iranian or Iranian-paid mercenary in Syria killed.

    Since Smoothie is not here to enlighten us dummies, we’ll have to figure it out for ourselves.

    I suspect Assad received the systems from Russia with the understanding that they will only be used to protect Assad. Further, I assume that since they are no longer needed, Assad would like for the Israelis to destroy the Iranians forces and proxies currently in Syria. The engaged defense systems were probably commanded by rogues (or perhaps manned by Iranians) who are failing to keep in line with Assad’s wishes.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  320. @Anonymous

    In what universe giving up a part of your own country makes sense? Should France get rid of Paris? Should Texas be returned to Mexico?

    Russian Federation is already too much of a rump state. The way to improve it is by annexing the neighbouring European land, and ditching the “Federation” part.

    • Replies: @DFH
  321. iffen says:
    @Greasy William

    It is important that you respond because it effects my peace plan.

    Since you are working on the Ukrainian problem, I will work on the ME.

    1) Every advocate of the two-state solution should be denounced as a war monger.
    2) The West Bank and Lebanon should be divided among Israel, Syria and Jordan with consideration given to appropriate post WWII style population exchanges and forced resettlements.
    3) Israeli sovereignty over Jerusalem should be accepted, but they should be forced to “lease” the appropriate religious areas to the UN as an international open and neutral religious site.
    4) The Saudis should be forced to pay Egypt to take Gaza.

    The only part that I worry about is #4. I’m not sure the Saudis have enough money to get Egypt to take Gaza.

  322. AP says:
    @Bigly

    Russia is irrelevant when we know that the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians, except in Galicia, speak fluent Russian.

    Most Dutch speak English, no?

    And most Irish speak only English.

    Ethnically, Ukrainians are closer to Russians than Scots are to Anglos.

    Genetics shows Ukrainians are closer to Slovaks than they are to Russians. Russians are in third place.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    , @Mikhail
    , @Bigly
  323. DFH says:
    @Felix Keverich

    In what universe giving up a part of your own country makes sense?

    It’s easy to imagine situations where part of a country only drains it of resources while not being strategically significant.

    Should France get rid of Paris?

    No, but they should give up French Guyana

  324. @iffen

    Further, I assume that since they are no longer needed, Assad would like for the Israelis to destroy the Iranians forces and proxies currently in Syria.

    You seem to have all sorts of weird assumptions about people! :)

    The priority for Assad is to win his country back: large parts of Syria continue to be occupied by the US, Israel, Turkey and their proxies. Iran is indispesable partner in this fight.

    Israeli attacks on the Syrian army are nothing new: Israelis have been backing Assad’s opponents covertly and not so covertly since the start of the war.

  325. @DFH

    It’s easy to imagine situations where part of a country only drains it of resources while not being strategically significant.

    LMAO, it’s only easy when it is somebody else’s country, trust me.

    • Replies: @DFH
  326. @DFH

    The problem with Guiana is not Guiana itself. The problem is that the French governemnt treats it like a region of France.

    This is the wrong approach, Guiana is not a French region. It is merely a dumping ground owned by France.

    It is a place to dump all the rubbish France doesn’t need. Once the people in Paris realise this the situation becomes a lot clearer.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  327. @DFH

    In all fairness I wouldn’t even mind giving up DICh (and, naturally, imposing immigration restrictions immediately afterwards), but this is so politically unrealistic and feeding into the meme of Russian nationalists wanting Russia’s dismemberment that there’s zero point in wasting political capital on it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Felix Keverich
  328. DFH says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Britain was strengthened by giving up all of its useless African possessions.

    It’s only hard to think about if you have a Risk-map understanding of national strength.

  329. @DFH

    Should France get rid of Paris?

    No, but they should give up French Guyana

    I am sorry but I have to disagree here: we should get rid of ALMOST the entirely of Guyane, but not all of it: the Kourou spatial center is too much of a valuable asset, probably the best land-based one currently in existence. It is no accident that an entire Foreign Legion regiment (3e REI) is stationed there, the only regiment-size unit of the French military that is permanently deployed outside of the metropolitan area (inb4: yes I know that 2e REP is permanently stationed in Corsica, but Corsica is part of Metropolitan France).

    On the other hand I would graciously and unconditionally offer absolute independence (with the condition that no “foreign aid” could be given, ad perpetuam) to the following, in no particular order:
    - Martinique
    - Guadeloupe
    - Mayotte
    - Réunion
    - Nouvelle Calédonie
    - Polynésie Française (of which I would only retain a handful of uninhabited atolls for when it will become needed to resume nuclear weapons testing).

    While we would be at it I would also offer to all Antillais currently living in France to relocate for free, plus a re-location allowance, with the condition again to never move back to France under penalty of life-long forced labor, to their beloved islands.

  330. @Hyperborean

    Rubbish includes:
    Nuclear waste
    Christiane Taubira and her co-ethnics
    Habitual petty criminals
    Gypsies
    Actual rubbish
    Etc.

    I could probably come up with more things if I bothered.

    Besides they have a pretty good space centre there, don’t they?

    • Replies: @French Basque
  331. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    You will probably find greater genetic differences between Galicia and Kharkov. The people from Western Ukraine even look different.

    LOL. Felix continues his record of nonsense about Ukraine.

    Genetic study shows that an ethnic Ukrainian not only from Kharkiv, but also from Belgorod in Russia, is genetically closer to an ethnic Ukrainian from Lviv than he is to an ethnic Russian in Kharkiv or Kursk:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.3103/S0095452715040106

    ” a detailed analysis of highly informative Y-chromosome markers showed that both nations retain the ethnic specificity of their gene pools after 3.5 centuries of coexistence in the same historical territory: the Ukrainian populations are similar to the rest of Ukraine, and Russian populations gravitate towards the south of European Russia. The persistent genetic differences may be due to the spatial characteristics of marriage migration and the predominant ethnic environment.”

    Article can be downloaded here.

    Page 250 shows genetic distance:

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  332. Seraphim says:
    @Volgar

    Actually the war was called a “Patriotic war” for the defense of the Fatherland from the first days. Its ‘antifascist’ character was peddled by the “Jewish Antifascist Committee”, organized by the Jewish Bund (labor union) leaders Henryk Erlich and Victor Alter, upon an initiative of Soviet authorities, in fall 1941, reformed on Joseph Stalin’s order in Kuibyshev in April 1942 with the official support of the Soviet authorities. It was designed to influence international public opinion and organize political and material support for the Soviet fight against Nazi Germany, particularly from the West which was specifically fighting ‘Fascism and Nazism’.

  333. I have a genuinely non-provocative question for all Ukrainian nationalists visiting this site — and there seems to be more than a few.

    However before asking this question, providing a little background is in order.

    I consider myself a Basque nationalist AND a French nationalist. Far from being antagonistic, these two combine each other in a nice fashion, technically know as subsidiarity. The reason is that it has been unrealistic for at least 600 years to expect that a Basque polity could remain independent between the 2 major players that surround these lands. At best we could have become a sub-Portugal English protectorate. Thank you, but no thanks. On the other hand we people of Basque ascent provide a great contribution to French conservatism, as voting patterns demonstrate, we are much more to the right of the political spectrum than our pozzed neighbors to the east. For instance, I vote for autonomist, non-independentist, candidates at local and regional elections, and I vote the Front National at all national elections. Our neighbors of Landes on the other hand are left-of-center cucks and have been for a long time, having even given a national destiny to, of all things, a Henri Emmanuelli whose last name indicates a likely Marano origin.

    Now, getting to the Ukraine/Russia question. We Basques (of which a solid 50% of my ancestry belongs) are even more remote to the rest of France, linguistically speaking, than Ukrainians are from Russians. In fact, our language is the one that differs the most from all other European languages; it has been said to be a “language isolate” that cannot be reliably attached to any other language existing today. In that sense, it might the be the only surviving truly indigenous language of Europe. So, clearly the debate regarding Ukrainian vs. Russian languages sounds a bit overblown, with all due respect, as both languages are at least Indo-European (caveat emptor: I do not speak any of those).

    In addition, the Basque morphotype is a bit peculiar in that we tend to have high cheeks — which some attribute to the settling of defeated Huns in this area after their invasion died off in the 450s AD. We also are able to swallow much more alcohol than the average French bloke, a feat that I have empirically verified at many ferias. Last but not least, cultural if not really religious Catholicism has subsisted much more deeply in the French Basque area, than in all surrounding départements, which have become atheistic SJW wastelands. Oh, and lest I forget: the muslim folk living here tend to behave themselves, in stark contrast with what can been seen daily in our occitan neighbor Toulouse.

    So, my point is that we French Basques are much more remote from the rest of France, linguistically, culturally, religiously, even biologically, than what I can perceive from the differences between Russians and Ukrainians (both European groups of which I have met members during my military time when we had brief encounters with the Foreign Legion). And yet, I can’t even think of Basque Donbass kind of civil war — quite the contrary, the French Basque area is arguably one of the coolest places where to live in France, as demonstrated by real estate prices. I honestly think we have the best of both worlds: a real cultural existence of our own — and the ability to be part of a broader polity that has allowed us to thrive on the national stage due to our above-French-average IQs. I therefore, honestly cannot understand why Ukrainians feel the way they do with respect to Russia. Would they rather falling under Polish (read American) or German domination? But again: please do not yell at me, I do not have any skin in that game, either way, and am not planning to move to Russia nor the Ukraine in my lifetime.

    A note regarding Spanish Basque independence: I am all for it (like the Spanish Catalan one, or the Belgian Wallon one), because it means inevitable annexation by France.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @anonymous coward
    , @AP
    , @Mikel
  334. @Hyperborean

    Rubbish includes:
    [...]
    Christiane Taubira and her co-ethnics

    Could not agree more.

    Besides they have a pretty good space centre there, don’t they?

    Objectively the best location in the world, as demonstrated by its protection by the only regiment-size unit (and what unit!) permanently deployed out of Metropolitan France, the 3rd Foreign Infantry Regiment.

  335. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Russian and Chinese nationalists can lay the groundwork for this by promoting understanding of HBD in intellectual circles. (China needs to get rid of the southwest part of Xinjiang and the 8 million Uighurs who live there can have their own country.)

    HBD understanding will lead to the realization that there couldn’t possibly be anyway those regions would contribute to the country and it will be very tough and take over a century to assimilate the people.

    • Replies: @utu
  336. Jon0815 says:
    @AP

    But if you haven’t deported them, keep in mind that Chechnya only had 1.4 million people, the Russia-hating city of Kiev alone has 3 times that many.

    There’s no comparison with Chechnya. In the late 90′s and early 00s, the Russian military was in even worse shape than Ukraine’s was in 2014. Thanks to huge improvements in training, discipline, and equipment, today’s Russian military is probably more than an order of magnitude more powerful than it was then. Also, Ukrainians aren’t Chechens. At their peak the Chechen rebels numbered about 40,000, which relative to population size, would be the equivalent of the 20 million in east and central Ukraine fielding a rebel army of over 550,000. That would be quite an achievement even in western Ukraine (the UPA at its mid-1940s peak probably wasn’t larger than around 50,000). And prolonged urban combat in Kiev is unlikely, since any Ukrainian force in the city would inevitably be encircled and doomed, and Ukrainians aren’t Muslim fanatics eager to martyr themselves.

    So you’ve got about 20 million patriotic Ukrainians living outside western Ukraine, in central and parts of Eastern Ukraine. It’s not 2014 anymore. There are plenty of weapons and 100,000s of these people have been through the army and seen some combat.

    Most of that combat has involved shelling villages from miles away with heavy artillery. It has not prepared them at all for unconventional warfare against a vastly superior force.

    It will be quite an insurgency. Maybe after killing a few 100,000s of people, or a million or two, you will subdue the place, and then you’ll be successfully ruling a sullen, occupied place like Poland was during the Cold War. In the mean time you will have lost tens of thousands of people yourself, become North Koreaized, and the next time you are in another war guess which part of “Russia” will stab you in the back?

    Of course you never know for certain until a war is fought, but this is almost certainly an extreme exaggeration of what would be required to pacify eastern and central Ukraine. The initial invasion wouldn’t be quite the same cakewalk it would have been in 2014 (maybe 1000-2000 KIA instead of a few hundred), but its very implausible that Russian losses to a post-invasion insurgency would be in the tens of thousands, or that Ukrainian losses would be in the hundreds of thousands, let alone millions.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @AP
    , @Mikhail
  337. @Ali Choudhury

    Dreams of imperial conquest are pure folly when the strong nations are the richest and most happiest ones, not the warlike barbaric ones

    The US of A comes to mind.

  338. DFH says:
    @French Basque

    At best we could have become a sub-Portugal English protectorate. Thank you, but no thanks

    Such a situation would have been much better for Basque language and culture than the post-Revolutionary French state, which even went so far as to ban speaking Basque in public at one point iirc

  339. @DFH

    The Terrorist state that came out of the Lumières was clearly not the apex of French civilization, I will certainly not argue against it.

    But on the other hand the cultural annihilation under ZOG-subculture that seems to be all but inevitable when under Anglo domination, I believe, is worst. I agree that my point here is a speculative one, but my wanderings in those countries that have been put under Anglo boot have convinced me that this is the most toxic poison to local identities in the long run. Japan is a prime example of that, and I will certainly agree with a commenter above who said that that country has now entered a death spiral.

    You see, although the MSM labels him a “conservative” politician, the recent French prez I find the most despicable is Sarközy, for his re-integrating the French military within NATO. On the other hand, I will never be grateful enough to Chirac for not having caved in to the pressure or that W retard, and for having kept us out of the Irak disaster.

    Regarding Basque culture, in fact I find it much more vibrant in France than in Spain, where it has now been completely hijacked by barren SJW types, if not communists. Plus the Spanish Basque women who seem to be attracted to the independence movement appear to competing for the most-ugly woman on Earth contest.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Philip Owen
  340. @DFH

    Please come visit us one day. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.

  341. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    I hope that our resident mad scientist, Karlin, chimes in regarding this research. I wouldn’t think that this type of information is very useul in his never ending quest to ‘unite’ the one true ‘Rus’ nationality into one (triune theory). But perhaps I’m missing something that only he can point out?…

    Every grey cloud has a silver lining…

    :-)

    • Replies: @AP
  342. DFH says:
    @French Basque

    But on the other hand the cultural annihilation under ZOG-subculture that seems to be all but inevitable when under Anglo domination

    Which European countries were under ‘Anglo domination’? Unlike, say, France, Germany and Russia, Britain never (apart from Ireland) wnt around annexing large territories in Europe and trying to destroy their local culture.

  343. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    and it will be very tough and take over a century to assimilate the people

    Chinese have time. They successfully assimilated Jews. Just keep them isolated from foreign influences.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  344. @Dmitry

    Racism is a great thing and should always be promoted.

    The only trouble is with incorrect racism, such as when Tsar Nicholas II assumed the Japanese were inferior.

    Is there anything objectively incorrect about how Raus characterizes the Russian soldier as he was in 1941-1945?

    And Raus’s work certainly isn’t “ranting” against the Russians, whom he repeatedly praises for their courage and cunning.

  345. Mr. Hack says:
    @Jon0815

    the UPA at its mid-1940s peak probably wasn’t larger than around 50,000).

    John Armstrong, in his seminal and well researched book about ‘Ukrainian Nationalism’ during the period you write about, estimated that at it’s peak at least 100,000 volunteers were a part of the UPA movement, possibly up towards 200,000. He also points out that as the UPA and OUN scouting parties moved out from Western Ukraine into the Central, Southern and the Eastern parts of the country, the further they traveled the less developed the sense of Ukrainian nationalism appeared. The big differences in communication technologies between 1940′s Ukraine and today is immense. Books, television, radio, journals, the internet and perhaps most importantly the school system have all evolved to help promote a sense of Ukrainianism among members of these once unreachable areas. The Ukrainian idea has taken a hold in these areas to a much greater degree than in the 1940′s (even among Russian speaking Ukrainians).

    • Replies: @AP
  346. @AP

    The German generals after the war constructed a fantasy that the H-man alone was responsible for Germany’s defeat, and that if only they had been in charge Germany would’ve won the war. Erich von Manstein wrote an entire book dedicated to this fantasy.

    The H-man’s decision-making prior to 1944 was not always optimal of course, but it wasn’t crazy the way his decisions in 1944-1945 were.

    The delay in the assault on Moscow for instance was the result of the H-man’s argument that it was more important to destroy the Soviet army than to capture Moscow. Maybe he was wrong, but that’s hardly an unreasonable point of view.

    I don’t think the H-man failed at Stalingrad at all, other than that Fall Blau itself was overly ambitious and should not have proceeded into Stalingrad or the Caucasus. He sacrificed the Sixth Army so that Army Group B could withdraw from the Caucasus. This was successful.

    Let’s not forget that the German generals themselves did not always have the best ideas. The original plan for Fall Gelb was a WWI retread, which the H-man correctly understood was not a good idea. He had the good sense to adopt von Manstein’s plan after the Mechelen Affair. Many of the German generals also wanted a general retreat in the face of the Battle of Moscow, with Guderian proposing retreating all the way back to Poland. A nutty idea in a long war.

    Nice to see Admiral Martyanov thoroughly dismantled on the other hand. :)

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  347. @DFH

    I think America would be included in the category ‘Anglo’ and it is pretty clear that the Anglo-Saxon liberalism has had a significant influence on the trajectory of post-war Western Europe, whether one believes that to be a good thing or not.

  348. @Ali Choudhury

    I don’t know, Israel seems to be doing quite well…

  349. @French Basque

    The “Ukrainian” nationalists here a) do not live in Ukraine, and b) are Galician, not Ukrainian.

    Galicia is ethnically, historically and culturally a different nation. Galicia only got annexed to Russia after WWII, so of course they’d like to join Poland, as they were throughout history.

    Problem is that Galicia is the shittiest part of Europe, worse than Albania even. They don’t want to do it alone and want to take a chunk of “Ukraine” with them. (Seeing as “Ukraine” is a failed state and always was, their expectation makes sense.)

    • Replies: @AP
    , @French Basque
    , @Mikhail
  350. @utu

    Why not just swamp them with Han settlers? It’s not like the Chinese lack people. After all, who remember the Manchu?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  351. @DFH

    The House of Plantagenet claimed the throne of France and spent a century invading France to press this claim.

    The greatest English victory during this war was turned into a heroic national epic by Shakespeare.

    Henry VIII invaded France again, but was unable to gain much.

    These claims were not renounced until 1801 (and the Jacobite pretenders maintain the claim).

    The overwhelming continental power of France until the final defeat of Napoleon meant that England traditionally was involved in coalitions to prevent French domination of Europe.

    • Replies: @DFH
  352. AP says:
    @Jon0815

    There’s no comparison with Chechnya. In the late 90′s and early 00s, the Russian military was in even worse shape than Ukraine’s was in 2014.

    Not at all. The Russian military was capable of fielding 100,000s of troops at that time. In 1999 it sent about 80,000 into Chechnya (per wiki). In 2014 Ukraine had perhaps 120,000 troops but only 20,000 or so combat-ready ones (IIRC), with mostly nonfunctional equipment. Ukraine and Russia both degraded in the 1990s but by 2014 Ukraine had degraded much further. The transformation since 2014 has been remarkable. Pound-for-pound, Ukraine’s military is probably comparable to Russia’s military circa 2005. Improvement continues.

    Also, Ukrainians aren’t Chechens. At their peak the Chechen rebels numbered about 40,000, which relative to population size, would be the equivalent of the 20 million in east and central Ukraine fielding a rebel army of over 550,000.

    Correct.

    And prolonged urban combat in Kiev is unlikely, since any Ukrainian force in the city would inevitably be encircled and doomed, and Ukrainians aren’t Muslim fanatics eager to martyr themselves.

    Maidan showed that the people in Kiev were capable of mass unrest and violence. Suicide attacks, no. A lot of house to house fighting? Probably. It would be not as extreme was Warsaw during the uprising but much worse than Belfast. Bombings, machine gun attacks, snipers, locals being uncooperative with the Russian authorities, etc. Warsaw in 1939 had 1/3 the population of Kiev today. If the intensity of resistance in Kiev was 1/3 that of Warsaw, casualties would be similar.

    In the end, Russia would have to rebuild the place, and invest in a Brezhnev-era comprehensive repressive state apparatus to keep things quiet from a population that hates it.

    In Kharkiv, home base of Azov, it would be lighter, more Belfast type of resistance; Russia would have local supporters analogous to the Ulster Paramilitary force vs. Azov’s IRA.

    “There are plenty of weapons and 100,000s of these people have been through the army and seen some combat.”

    Most of that combat has involved shelling villages from miles away with heavy artillery.

    Not all. And the point is that, unlike in 2014, there are 100,000s of Ukrainian men who have been trained how to shoot, plenty of weapons, and plenty of nationalism. There are thus ingredients for significant insurgency across central Ukraine.

    I visited relatives in central Ukraine, including a village, in 2017. The difference from 2013 was shocking – it was like these people had become Galicians. War builds nations.

    The initial invasion wouldn’t be quite the same cakewalk it would have been in 2014 (maybe 1000-2000 KIA instead of a few hundred)

    Perhaps.

    but its very implausible that Russian losses to a post-invasion insurgency would be in the tens of thousands

    Russia lost about 7,200 personnel in the Chechen war. Chechnya has 4.5% of the population of western plus central Ukraine (about 30 million). At the same rate Russia would lose 152,000 people in Ukraine.

    Of course, Ukrainians are not Chechens and Russia’s military has much-improved since 1999. But a loss rate of 30,000 or so to insurgency, 1/5 of the rate in Chechnya, (in addition to the 1,000-2,000 killed during the initial invasion) is not an unreasonable estimate.

    When the insurgency finally ends, there will be years of occasional IRA style attacks, killings of Russian officials or native collaborators, with the passive support of the general population.

    If Russian forces stop at the 1939 border and don’t enter Galicia, perhaps they will lose 10,000 to insurgency (plus the 1-2K in the initial invasion). And then a few dozen a year to IRA-style attacks in Kiev and other occupied cities until the FSB infiltrates and neutralizes the nationalist groups (though lone wolf attacks will always exist). They will have to invest in a Cold War Iron-Curtain style fence separating western Ukraine from occupied Ukraine to prevent weapons and fanatics from coming in. They will be under NK-style sanctions and will rebuild these cities populated by people who hate them.

    I wonder if Russia is so nationalistic that its people will be willing to sacrifice 12,000 (if they avoid Western Ukraine) or 30,000 people (if they take all of Ukraine), NK-style isolation, severe economic loss, and the cost of feeding 20 million people who hate them, just to extend Russia’s borders.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    , @Jon0815
  353. @Anatoly Karlin

    It is an idiotic strategy above everything else. Our problem is not the Caucasus, but the Caucasian people. Our solutions must target the people.

    A smarter approach would be to encourage migration of Chechens into US and EU. That way we can kill two birds with one stone: weakening the West and strengthening Russia at the same time. Incidentally, this is what the Israelis are doing.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  354. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Armstrong’s book was based on older data. Historians now say the peak was in the 40,000s at any one time (although perhaps 200,000 people were in UPA at various times).

  355. @Hyperborean

    The Manchus are still around, actually, in terms of genetics. Culturally, its just larping, though; there isn’t much culture left if they no longer speak their own language. I mean, technically I’m part Mongolian from a long, long time ago but hell if that matters: I’m not about to start making yurts.

  356. Gerard2 says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    It’s not as if most of the people around the world believe in “Ukrainian” as a culture and so on…..or can even locate it on the map you cretin

  357. DFH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I meant Britain (i.e. post-1707) rather than England.

    The overwhelming continental power of France until the final defeat of Napoleon meant that England traditionally was involved in coalitions to prevent French domination of Europe.

    I think that was a good thing for Europe, and can hardly be considered Anglo domination.

  358. I think these debates about who is genetically closest to whom are somewhat odd. Does it matter exactly who is related to whom most? It is not like you are poring over the genealogy of noble families.

    By that basis should China be split into North and South?

    Turks are a confusing jumble from a genetic point of view yet they still hold a strong sense of patriotic togetherness.

    Following your logic Turks should be squabbling endlessly over who has the most blood from Central Asia and who is a dirty foreigner from Albania.

    • Replies: @AP
  359. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    [MORE]

    LOL. Felix continues his record of nonsense about Ukraine.

    Seeing as Felix is a serious intellectual, but you are a serious POS, who has written about 1trillion words to Felix in your fuckedup freakshow life….I think your braindead nonsense of lies and stupidity to Felix is a huge sign of insecurity, projection and the fact that he’s the closest thing to a friend a sick moron like you has….that and your BS, spam pseudo-scientific “links” to fake research

    In this case the retardness is particularly stupid…..western Ukrainians clearly look different…..and the chances of finding a purely ethnic “Ukrainian” as somehow something different from an ethnic Russian…..is entirely zero because of them being the same people and all the intermarriage you retarded prick

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  360. AP says:
    @anonymous coward

    The “Ukrainian” nationalists here a) do not live in Ukraine

    Most of the Russians writing about Ukraine don’t live in Ukraine and indeed have never even been there.

    Galicia is ethnically, historically and culturally a different nation.

    Until the 1772 Galicia and the rest of Ukraine were together and part of Poland:

    Your argument is like saying that Poles from Krakow and those from Warsaw are ethnically, historically and culturally different nations.

    Ukrainians from Galicia were reunited to Ukrainians from Kiev oblast 20 years later than Poles from Krakow were reunited with Poles from Warsaw.

    Problem is that Galicia is the shittiest part of Europe

  361. AP says:
    @Hyperborean

    Sure, but when someone makes a factually incorrect statement is is normal to provide evidence to prove that they are wrong.

    The reality is that Ukrainians and Russians are similar but distinct, and that ethnic Ukrainians from Kharkiv or Belgorod in Russia are genetically closer to ethnic Ukrainians from Lviv than they are to ethnic Ruasians from their same region. This furthermore proves that intermarriage has not been as extensive as assumed by Russian nationalists.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  362. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    [MORE]

    Most Dutch speak English, no?

    They’re taught it and watch Hollywood films……..that’s totally different from speaking it at home, communicating in social media entirely in it, watching and reading news entirely in it, speaking it at all generations of family, preferring to read all your school science textbooks and journals in it, swearing in it…and that’s before we get into the billions of cultural and mentality “coincidences” you dipshit that Russians and “Ukrainians” have……beyond retarded to compare it to dutch and english you fantasist POS

    And most Irish speak only English

    Irish has English as an official language, is not contiguous land with England, is a successful country that can govern itself….and isnt a failed country rules by outsiders…..again, moronic to compare with Russians and ukrops .

    As for the attention-whoring, time wasting idiocy about Slovaks being genetically closer than Russians…….moronism once more

    • Replies: @AP
  363. Gerard2 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    The people from Western Ukraine even look different.

    Look different….and most importantly, think different. If we were to make a comparison of a western equivalent….it would be the cast of the bad guys from the film “Deliverance”. That’s not to confuse rural background ( which I am from) with stupidity and lack of enlightenment….but the particular backwardness of these morons…further exacerbated by EU/US funding is strikingly obvious….perhaps explains why western Ukraine is the poorest and least populated part of the country….in fact 5 of the top 7 most populated oblasts of Ukraine are in Novorossiya ( most of the wealth there) and 1 of the remainder is Kiev….the most Russian city of all

  364. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    These research finding don’t contradict the Triune idea, which after all admits that Little Russians are indeed distinct from Great Russians. The Triune theory clashes with Ukrainian nationalism with respect to the desired relationship between these two distinct peoples. It views them as two types of Rus who ought to unite.

    The genetic research disproves the myth that Ukrainians and Russians are the same or that eastern Ukrainians are (genetically) more like Russians than they are like western Ukrainians.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @Mr. Hack
  365. @AP

    ‘Sure, but when someone makes a factually incorrect statement is is normal to provide evidence to prove that they are wrong.’

    That is a fair point. I just think that while HBD and IQ tests are useful they should be considered from a holistic point of view (i.e implying things such that because X has 3 more average IQ points than nation Y therefore Y is infinitely inferior compared to X).

    I guess what I am trying to say is that becoming too obsessed with HBD can lead to falling down into some very strange rabbit holes.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @AP
  366. Gerard2 says:
    @Gerard2

    Not least in the Poroshenko family (the m an who writes near love letters to the FSB and owes his wealth to Russian consumers, russian banks and Soviet connections). His son is married to a Russian and it wouldn’t suprise me if he has a Russian passport

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  367. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    Just to note – over 50% of this stalker’s posts are replies to my posts.

    I am embarrassed that I occupy so much space in this foolish person’s head.

    • Replies: @iffen
  368. @DFH

    @DFH @Hyperborean

    The anglo domination proceeds in many ways. Or, should I rather say, the Jewish/Puritan domination because this is, since the time of the Faerie Queene, the invariant in the Anglo ideology. This is by far the most toxic and contagious ideology of all times. The very fact that we are all communicating between ourselves, here, in English as opposed to any of our own native languages is a sad testimony to that.

    It is not fair to say that the French went about destroying other cultures. The only people who cared to understand the Amerindian languages, study their grammars and syntaxes, and write dictionaries about them, where French Jesuits. On the other other hand the Anglo settlers just genocided them.

    Another interesting observation when you travel through south or central America (with the notable exception of Chile, at least most parts of it, and of southern Argentina too, to some extent) is that Amerindians are everywhere, at least in the form of mixed breeds. In the Anglo US of A, the extremely reduced fraction of the population that self-identifies as “Native American” is reduced to poor degenerates with the highest levels of incarceration and domestic violence living in third-world squalor. How the US of A can claim to have the moral high ground on any matter of importance is simply beyond me.

  369. AP says:
    @Hyperborean

    Agreed.

    And of course genetic similarity or dissimilarity doesn’t necessarily mean peoples are bound to be together or apart. Even though Ukrainians are clearly genetically distinct from Russians, Northern Russians are more distinct from southern Russians (lots of Finnic admixture) than Ukrainians are.

    Genetics is just one part of the equation, along with history, language, etc. etc. that constitute self-identity.

  370. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    A smarter approach would be to encourage migration of Chechens into US and EU. That way we can kill two birds with one stone: weakening the West and strengthening Russia at the same time. Incidentally, this is what the Israelis are doing.

    This an idea discussed/invented in Israel, but it did not yet become policy or popular. It is a proposal so far of a politician Moshe Feiglin (very non-influential, eccentrics nationalist politician).* Currently this kind of policy would be illegal under their Supreme Court (although could change in the future).

    Aside from the liberalism issue in Israel stopping it, it would be both very expensive (he suggested paying $500,000 per family), and also it cannot be expected that more than minority will accept it. This means it could change finely the demographic balance, but it’s unlikely to remove all or even majority of existing inhabitants.

    An alternative is ‘two-state solution’, in which separate territory are created. Or ‘demilitarized two state solution’ (the current official position for Israel).

    Now for the Russian Federation. a proposal for ‘multi-state’ solution with certain republics sounds tempting.

    But it would only make so much sense from nationalist (or demographic-nationalist) perspective if it is combined with immigration restriction, border fence, etc. I think this is more realistic as an alternative, especially considering what a waste of money certain republics are.

    I see less problem personally with directly the demographics, but above with the economic costs of supporting some areas.

    However, latter goes so much against current directions of policy, as to appear almost surreal to me. Where official policy goals now are to integrate countries of the region, and in the last few years Eurasian Economic Union results that even asking for the purpose of visits at the border, or requiring work permits, are not necessary for citizens of separate countries to live in Russia.

    * http://www.timesofisrael.com/likud-hardliner-suggests-paying-palestinian-families-to-emigrate-from-west-bank

  371. @anonymous coward

    Thank you for your response. But even if there exists a Galician ethnos, to what extent is it realistic to expect it can have its own independent polity? It seems only logical that they have to choose between being part of the Russian ensemble, or part of the Polish one. Or maybe the Germanic one, I don’t know.

    In the Pyrénées there is an interesting historical artifact called the Co-Principality of Andorra. Nominally it is independent of course, but the people (except for the mostly Portuguese foreign seasonal workers) are for the most part entirely indistinguishable from their neighbors south of Sant Julià de Lorià. It could be construed as a nice illustrative example that one can have an independent country without even having a real ethnos. But alas the reality is that it only exists because that has been found to be a convenient to maintain the status quo by both neighbors. Only Napoléon I assessed (correctly in my opinion) that this historical oddity should be fixed. Its sole reason to exist is to be a tax haven for various foreign comprador elites (Catalan in particular). My point here is the following: the nominal independence of otherwise irrelevant polities can only be maintained insofar as it serves the interests of powerful foreign neighbors.

  372. @AP

    As someone who thinks that the conquest of the Ukraine is a realistic, attainable goal, allow me to make two points:

    1. You are grossly overestimating the extent to which the Ukrainian population is invested in the idea of Ukrainian independence. We can easily assemble a large proxy army made up of men from Eastern Ukraine. It will be reasonably effective, it will be cheap. Assuming that Russian airforce does its part in destroying Ukrainian command and control, destroying Ukrainian industry, transport infrastructure, destroying Ukrainian army as an organised force, the conquest of the Ukraine could then be accomplished by Ukrainians loyal to Russia, and in that scenario they will bear most of the casualties. Basically, my idea would be to apply the experience of Syrian war in the Ukraine.

    2. Russia is not North Korea, it is a major part of the world’s economy and a No1 energy exporter. US, and especially the EU won’t be able to completely break their ties with Russia, without inflicting substantial economic pain on their own populations, and their populations are notoriously sensitive to pain. The rest of the world simply doesn’t care. Once again, you overestimate how far people are willing to go to protect the Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AP
  373. LondonBob says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Hitler was a big fan of military visionary JFC Fuller and promoted his doctrines.

  374. Anonymous[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @French Basque

    DFH is the eternal anglo, you know, the people who break treaties and then go “haha! you believed us!” without even a faint hint of shame.

    There’s no point to reasoning with him.

    • Replies: @DFH
  375. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @French Basque

    Two hundred years ago you would probably have been communicating in French.

    How the US of A can claim to have the moral high ground on any matter of importance is simply beyond me.

    Well, all things are relative, but by and large, as an American, I agree.

  376. @French Basque

    The real testament to “Jewish/Puritan” domination isn’t that we’re communicating in English, but that you think the Americans did something wrong by replacing the Amerindians. In reality this is the principle reason the US and Canada are so superior to Latin Americans, who are burdened with the blood of a lesser race.

    And in any case, General Sherman’s proposals aside, this is really just luck. North of the Rio Grande the Amerindians largely did not practice agriculture or live in permanent settlements and were predominantly hunter-gatherers, thus their population density was quite low. South of the Rio Grande many Amerindians lived in densely-populated agricultural civilizations, and furthermore the highlands disastrously allowed for safe areas for the Amerindian populations to recover after the initial population collapse.

    Another problem for Latin America is that Latin men are too horny and have no standards and thus could not resist sloughing the squaws, whereas the Anglo settlers of North America were mostly able to hold out for white women to arrive.

    It’s also worth noting that in Canada Quebecois men have traditionally had a reputation for lowering themselves to miscegenation with squaws, reflected in the term Métis. No such word among Anglo-Canadians or Americans, and in fact Americans were forced to import the term “mestizo” from the race-mixing Hispanics.

    Likewise George Orwell noted that French civilization was unique in being “devoid of color prejudice”, and the H-man contemptuously noted in Mein Kampf that France was intent on negrizing itself. Absence of color prejudice may have been praiseworthy according to Orwell, but it is in fact contemptible and incorrect.

    The French have destroyed many cultures (again, not that there is anything wrong about that), most obviously in the south of France. Who speaks Occitan today?

    The French also intended to extinguish German culture in the Rhineland, but failed to do so. Hence Die Wacht am Rhein.

  377. DFH says:
    @French Basque

    Or, should I rather say, the Jewish/Puritan domination because this is, since the time of the Faerie Queene, the invariant in the Anglo ideology.

    The British ruling class has been through at least three or four different ideological swings from 1700 (let alone the 16th century). It’s just absurd to say that Cromwell’s Commonwealth, Pitt the Elder’s Britain of the mid 18th century, mid-Victorian Britain under Gladstone and the Britain of Attlee’s government are ideologically the same.

    Whatever ideology you have in mind, voluntarily adopting it can’t be considered ‘Anglo domination’, unlike the French revolutionary armies imposing that ideology on most of Western Europe.

  378. Talha says:
    @Felix Keverich

    I also think it’s attainable. You just have to drop any regard for that pesky “international law” business; maybe this is why Bibi was visiting – to give tips?

    Peace.

  379. LondonBob says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The Puritans of New England represent the very pinnacle of European civilisation. Normally I find people who blame ‘Puritans’ to be using it as they are scared of saying Jews. Puritans weren’t pushing Freudianism, Boasian anthropology etc., quite the opposite if you look at the works of Madison Grant and Lothrop Stoddard. Yankee patricians were very concerned by the intellectuals trends of the twenties and thirties. The other complaint is that Yankees objected to slavery, sorry but the importation of African slaves was moral and social catastrophe, and not worth fighting and dying to preserve.

  380. DFH says:
    @Anonymous

    the people who break treaties and then go “haha! you believed us!” without even a faint hint of shame.

    Britain has a much better record of keeping treaties than other European major powers. You’re thinking of Bismarck, Hitler or Napoleon.

    • Replies: @Anon
  381. AP says:
    @French Basque

    I consider myself a Basque nationalist AND a French nationalist. Far from being antagonistic, these two combine each other in a nice fashion,

    These cannot be combined with respect to being a Russian and a Ukrainian nationalist, because Russian nationalism denied the idea of the existence of a Ukrainian nation (as is amply demonstrated by Russian nationalists here). One could, however, be both Ukrainian nationalist and a proponent of Austria-Hungary or an Intermarium.

    The reason is that it has been unrealistic for at least 600 years to expect that a Basque polity could remain independent between the 2 major players that surround these lands.

    There are 2.8 million Basques in Spain and France, compared to 35 million ethnic Ukrainians between Poland and Russia. Equations are different.

    At best we could have become a sub-Portugal English protectorate. Thank you, but no thanks.

    As someone else pointed put – you would have had your own language and avoided the French Revolution and terror then. Look at the situation of Quebec under British rule (not even a protectorate) – strong local culture and identity, and strong Catholicism (they abandoned it themselves after Brits left). Would it have been so bad?

    I therefore, honestly cannot understand why Ukrainians feel the way they do with respect to Russia. Would they rather falling under Polish (read American) or German domination?

    Poland uses the USA as the USA uses Poland – it is not a puppet of the USA.

    Ukraine has about the same population as Poland. It would not be dominated by Poland as it would be by Russia, which is almost 4 times Ukraine’s population. Polish nationalism doesn’t think that Ukraine does not exist – Russian nationalism does.

    Moscow grabbed Ukraine twice. Under the Tsar, Ukrainian elites prospered financially but lost their political autonomy, while peasants experienced significant worsening of serfdom. The country experienced a brain drain as locals moved to St. Petersburg (Gogol was Ukraine’s loss but Russia’s gain).

    The second time, under the Soviets, millions were starved to death and millions more stopped speaking their native language as their first language.

    No thanks to a third try.

    • Replies: @French Basque
    , @Mikhail
  382. DFH says:
    @LondonBob

    The other complaint is that Yankees objected to slavery, sorry but the importation of African slaves was moral and social catastrophe, and not worth fighting and dying to preserve.

    They didn’t just object to slavery though, they often had absurdly idealised ideas of blacks and fantasies about educating them, unlike much more sensible anti-slavery colonisers. At their worst, like John Brown and his supporters like Emerson, they had an insane hatred of Southerners and believed all sorts of lies and atrocity stories about slavery.

    Slavery was wrong and bad for white people, but it was hardly a ‘moral catastrophe’ since it gave the blacks and their descendants a much better standard of living than they would have had in Africa and which even in absolute terms wasn’t that bad.

    http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/slavery-in-the-united-states/

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  383. LondonBob says:
    @DFH

    No doubt some did, but they were smart enough as a society not to import them to their own region. I consider myself a Confederate sympathiser but Puritan Lincoln had the right idea with shipping them back to Africa.

  384. @AP

    The authors of this “study” are all Ukrainians and it was published in 2015 under new Maidanist regime. A parody of Nazi science basically. Not surprising considering how Ukrainian nationalists are trying to emulate the Third Reich.

    I stand by my opinion: that face

    is a very particular “Galician” face. You don’t really see such faces anywhere else in the former USSR, but there is plenty of them in Western Ukraine.and Poland as well.

    • Replies: @AP
  385. @LondonBob

    The importation of lawless negro savages to British North America was certainly an own goal.

    This catastrophe however certainly did not merit abolitionism, let alone civil rights or insane theories of racial equality. One simply could’ve confined slavery to its existing territories and pursued gradual deportation, beginning in temperate states like Virginia where black labor was not required.

    The Puritans and the Quakers are to blame for the global catastrophe of racial equality (later aided and abetted by the Jews, of course). Though one must also blame the French “Enlightenment” cranks for coming up with the idea of equality to begin with.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  386. @Thorfinnsson

    Thank you for your reasoned answer.

    By the way I enjoy reading your comments, even if I do not always agree with everything you say. But globally I share many of your opinions regarding race.

    I nonetheless, with all due respect, think that you incorrect when you write the following:

    The real testament to “Jewish/Puritan” domination isn’t that we’re communicating in English, but that you think the Americans did something wrong by replacing the Amerindians.

    Quite to the contrary, I think that this belief that this was fundamentally wrong is rooted in my Catholic upbringing. Yes indeed we Catholics do not believe in genocide, unlike Jews and Puritans.

    However, that does not mean that I think that miscegenation is good thing. In fact, I believe exactly the opposite and would be appalled if any of my six children were to marry (or have married) a person of color, even is said person was to be technically Catholic. In fact, NS Jésus Christ did not abolish the nations and He said so very explicitly. I therefore entirely agree with you here.

    I also share your assessment regarding agriculture, in particular the growing of maíz, a crop of which Hernán Cortéz attributed the beauty of the bodies of the locals — in contrast to those of his compatriots. Where I would be more nuanced is in the relative importance of this, in the disappearance of the Amerindians from the North. Tocqueville, in chapter 18 of volume 1 of La Révolution en Amérique, wrote prophetic lines (written in the 1830s, when the US of A was far from occupying the vast lands between the Mississippi and the Pacific) about the inevitable fate of the locals:

    “The Spaniards were unable to exterminate the Indian race by those unparalleled atrocities which brand them with indelible shame, nor did they succeed even in wholly depriving it of its rights; but the Americans of the United States have accomplished this twofold purpose with singular felicity, tranquilly, legally, philanthropically, without shedding blood, and without violating a single great principle of morality in the eyes of the world. It is impossible to destroy men with more respect for the laws of humanity.”

    The English rendition that I found on the internet does not do justice to his splendid French prose, but hey, as we said earlier, it’s 2018 and we don’t use French any more to communicate between ourselves…

    Regarding the extinction of German culture in the Rhineland/Palatinate, I do agree with both of your points: (1) the French wanted to do it and (2) failed to achieve it. L. Rebatet (who later became one of the lead Collaborationists with the Germans and barely escaped execution in 1945) wrote memorable lines about his own witnessing of the departure of French troops from Coblence in 1930. But again, it is a matter of nuance: I think that to a large extent it can be justified on the grounds that the Roman Empire’s ultimate limit there had always been found the be the Rhine itself. As a result, it can be legitimately upheld that the frontières naturelles of Romance lands stop at the Rhine. Not that any of this matters any more, anyway, as German’s demographics ensure its disappearance as an ethnos within a few generations.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  387. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    As we have already seen plenty of times, you know nothing about Ukraine and everything you’ve written about it has been wrong (your silly claim about western Ukrainians being genetically different from Eastern ones was already debunked here) . So when you make claims like: “You are grossly overestimating the extent to which the Ukrainian population is invested in the idea of Ukrainian independence.” the fact that you have made this claim is itself evidence that the claim is false.

    Most Ukrainians vote for nationalist parties and oppose union between the two countries. There are about 200,000 Ukrainian soldiers and another 200,000 demobilized former soldiers/reserves.

    The conquest of the Ukraine could then be accomplished by Ukrainians loyal to Russia, and in that scenario they will bear most of the casualties

    There was basically no Ukrainian government in 2014; if there was an appetite to end Ukraine this was the time. And it only happened in the ethnic Russian settled parts of Donbas oblast. Given the chance to join Russia, most Ukrainians rejected it.

    The most pro-Russian part of Ukraine (and populated by about 50% ethnic Russians) managed 45,000 people to fight a defensive war. Many do so because it’s the only source of income there, and are not particularly enthusiastic. Let’s say you raise another 40,000 in Kharkiv and Odessa.
    You think they would be able to conquer 30 million? How many of these would be willing to die in street to street fighting in Kiev? Do you think if the British military took out much of the Irish military with airpower and missiles, the Ulster Protestants would be able to conquer and hold the island on their own?

  388. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    Britain has a much better record of keeping treaties than other European major powers. You’re thinking of Bismarck, Hitler or Napoleon.

    Eh? If you’d said “about the same”, you’d have been right. “Much better” is ridiculous.

    Edit:
    On second thought, maybe “much better” does apply to Germany specifically. I’d just say “better”, though, not “much”.

  389. LondonBob says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    What on earth do Puritans have to do with civil rights or racial equality? I don’t think knownothings or Lothrop Stoddard have anything to do with that.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  390. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Read the first paragraphs. Author is writing about Russians like a British man of the 18th century, writing about his African slaves (and for an American audience). And then soon it is talking about how Russians don’t value human life (written from a German general during WW2). A very strange text.

  391. LondonBob says:

    No surprise that the puritan descended Mormons are the only thriving white group in America today.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  392. @LondonBob

    Normally I find people who blame ‘Puritans’ to be using it as they are scared of saying Jews.

    Please note how I always clearly associate those together and therefore cannot new blamed of being scared of speaking of the J-Frage.

    The other complaint is that Yankees objected to slavery, sorry but the importation of African slaves was moral and social catastrophe, and not worth fighting and dying to preserve.

    It my impression that you are compounding two different questions into one sentence. I certainly agree with the second part, but it does not follow that the first part was well-founded. In fact the question of slavery was typical Puritan hypocrisy, just a convenient fig-leaf for what in reality boiled down to libido dominandi. From anti-slavery to “weapons of mass destruction”, “babies in incubators”, and “chemical attacks on the children”, it is always the same sort of rhetorical artifices being used.

    What is left of Puritans is disappearing anyway, with Brown peoples taking over the US of A at an even faster rate than Western Europe (which is not saying much I would agree).

  393. AP says:
    @Felix Keverich

    The authors of this “study” are all Ukrainians and it was published in 2015

    Your string of failures remains unbroken. :-)

    Authors of study:

    O. M. Utevskaa, A. S. Pshenichnovb, Kh. D. Dibirovab, S. Rootsic , A. T. Agdzhoyand, M. I. Churnosove, E. V. Balanovskab, L. A. Atramentovaa, and O. P. Balanovskyb,

    Kharkov National University, Kharkov, Ukraine

    Research Center for Medical Genetics, Moscow, Russia

    Estonian Biocenter, Tartu, Estonia

    Vavilov Institute of General Genetics, Moscow, Russia,

    Belgorod State University, Belgorod, Russia

    Published in 2015, but written in 2013.

    Does it hurt, when you fail so hard?

  394. @AP

    Thank you for the thoughtful comments. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. It will help me better understand this question (I fully realize being vastly ignorant thereof, never having even travelled to Moscow nor Kiev).

    I also agree with your assessment regarding Québec. It is very sad indeed. I attribute it to the genetic stock that went there, mostly peasants from western France, certainly not the highest-IQ area of the country.

    My only slight disagreement with you (but again I don’t have any skin in that game) would be regarding the soviet terror. I don’t think it can be univocally blamed on the Russians, who also suffered their fare share of soviet atrocities. On the other hand, jews responsibility in the bolchevik freak show appears to be indisputable. Maybe you can all reconcile yourselves on the back of Jews? That has worked wonders in many historical precedents.

    • Replies: @AP
  395. Gerard2 says:
    @Philip Owen

    Oh Phil…..so so silly

    USSR was still supplying smuggled rubber to Germany

    …it’s called trade Phil you cretin…..like what the US and UK did ( plus loans and politics) to build-up Nazi Germany against the Soviets. USSR gave NATO countries Oil and Gas and many more things during the Cold War….does that mean they were allies using you dimwitted logic>

    Distance from mainland Britain to France?……40km
    Distance from Moscow to Praga?….nearly 2000km

    let’s not forget the Channel Islands easy occupation by the Nazis

    I would do a point by point rebuttal, of your poist but I’m in a rush

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  396. Dmitry says:
    @French Basque

    This is by far the most toxic and contagious ideology of all times. The very fact that we are all communicating between ourselves, here, in English as opposed to any of our own native languages is a sad testimony to that.

    How? The reason the forum is so addictive, is the multi-national conversations – which is only possible because everyone here has studied English.

    • Replies: @French Basque
  397. AP says:
    @French Basque

    My only slight disagreement with you (but again I don’t have any skin in that game) would be regarding the soviet terror. I don’t think it can be univocally blamed on the Russians, who also suffered their fare share of soviet atrocities.

    I agree. The Russian people are not collectively guilty, because they did not choose the Bolsheviks. they were also victims.

    But nevertheless, union with Russia had these devastating consequences for central and eastern Ukraine. The parts of Ukraine that were in Poland were spared them.

    • Replies: @French Basque
  398. @Dmitry

    The reason the forum is so addictive, is the multi-national conversations

    Oh! But I do not disagree with you at all: see, I am on vacation today and have enjoyed a lot engaging in these conversations from my terrace overlooking the Gulf of Gascony.

    My point was about the medium we are using, namely, the language that has won the cultural war: English. It would be so much nicer to do it in French for example. Or better yet, in Latin. But they won and we lost, how sad as it might be, I readily concede it. I blame it mostly on the general faggotry of the late Bourbon kings. In this regard, as despicable at the Robespierrist Terror might be, the French Révolution cannot be properly understood without its overall re-virilization tones, a reaction to the over-feminization of the Ancien Régime.

    • Replies: @LatW
  399. @Twinkie

    The US was attacked, too, and rather spectacularly… but pursued the right strategy of eliminating the more dangerous foe first (but only after two allies bled to near extinction to damage that foe). It seems pretty intelligent to me.

    I mentioned ETO because Germany obviously never attacked the US. It declared war, but that’s quite different from an actual attack. From the moment of its establishment, Islam declared war on all non-Muslim infidels, but we haven’t exactly gone around conquering Muslim lands and forcing them to recant their faith.

    The US became the preeminent world power which accounted fully 50% of the world’s GNP in 1945. Think about that for the moment – half of the world’s GNP. Americans became the best-fed, the wealthiest, and the most powerful (and in many ways the most admired, respected, liked, and imitated) people in the world after bleeding the least among the major powers in the titanic, global struggle.

    The US already had the largest economy in the world before the war. And it was the best-fed by a wide margin – Brits hosting their American counterparts remarked upon the fact that they were bigger and taller.

    • Replies: @Talha
  400. @AP

    I agree. The Russian people are not collectively guilty, because they did not choose the Bolsheviks. they were also victims.

    And how about my suggestion that you all reconcile on the backs of the Jews? I was not joking, it has managed to reconcile the Castillans and the Aragonese, which was no small feat indeed.

    In any event, I thank you all for the great commentary, I am taking off for the evening as I will ignite my plancha in a few minutes. By the way this is so vastly superior to the barbaric BBQ which burns the food as opposed to nicely cooking it. And we make the best planchas in the world here in Bayonne: “Forge Adour” is the maker of these, in case you guys are interested — and in the interest of full disclosure I do not own stocks of that company :)

    Agur!

  401. Dmitry says:

    In Ukraine – Victory Day concert on “Inter”.

    This is the reason the nationalists in Kiev were trying to shut down their television station. and covering the HQ building with stickers.

  402. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Wrong. Once again noting the inaccurate probability of whatever genetic stats are available. Maybe Trans-Carpathia and/or Galaica-Volhynia Ukrainians.

    There has yet to be the near equivalent of a population census like compilation regarding such a genetic comparison.

  403. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Show such a study involving the majority in the territory/territories in question.

    Reminded of contradicting studies on other peoples that were previously discussed, relative to why some Serbs look more like Russians with others looking more like Turks.

  404. @Twinkie

    Not bad at all for people whose soldiers were dismissed as “our Italians” by a British army officer who was captured and interrogated by the Germans (about Americans) in North Africa c. early 1943 (probably in the aftermath of Kesserine Pass).

    The Brits are big on cutting remarks based on unwarranted feelings of superiority. In their defense, though, it’s not unique to them.

  405. songbird says:
    @Twinkie

    Yes, but Hiroshima would have looked just as nice (or nicer) without all the deaths and destruction.

    I don’t know the local specifics, but I suspect you may be mistaken. I live in an old part of the US, where some of the streets are really extraordinarily cramped. After a snowstorm, 95% should be one-way – but they are not. The place where my father grew up is really densely populated, there are practically no parks.

    Contrast that to Germany, where there are a lot of bike lanes. They often redesign the street grid in bombed out cities. Make them more planned. Traditionally, Japanese buildings were not built to last or generally of high aesthetic value.

    Not to put to fine a point on it. The deaths were lamentable, and the war unnecessary. I don’t know if losing was really a good thing for Japan, so much as the US being on the winning side may have ironically been bad for the US and the West in general. I think, it made the US public more complacent than it would have been otherwise. Meanwhile, the US guarantees of security made Western Europe more complacent, and made it more attractive as a welfare destination.

  406. Talha says:
    @Johann Ricke

    From the moment of its establishment, Islam declared war on all non-Muslim infidels

    It most certainly did not. We had explicit orders (by the Prophet [pbuh]) to leave the Abyssinians and Turks alone since they were truly considered neutral. The Byzantine and Sassanid empires were not and were dealt with. Islamic rules for warfare were quite suitable and intelligent for the world of Late Antiquity; consider everyone a foe unless they declare themselves otherwise by signing a non-aggression pact or treaty. Those that were fought and fought back well (like the Nubians) were also given long-standing trade and non-aggression agreements.

    Today we have an international order where non-aggression and diplomatic relations are the norm; the major Muslim scholars and institutions of learning see nothing wrong with this framework – it is quite workable within the scope of the Shariah. One can consider it a detente; one that is in the interests of both parties to adhere to.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  407. Dmitry says:

    In case it was missed.

    During the Victory Day parade in Moscow on Wednesday, a security officer had rudely pushed aside a veteran. Putin noticed and intervened to show respect to the veteran.

    The pushing is visible at 0:03-0:06

    • Replies: @utu
  408. @Talha

    Today we have an international order where non-aggression and diplomatic relations are the norm; the major Muslim scholars and institutions of learning see nothing wrong with this framework – it is quite workable within the scope of the Shariah. One can consider it a detente; one that is in the interests of both parties to adhere to.

    The Muslim states are somewhat peaceful today because they can’t get loot and slaves from losing wars. There is not a single country, Muslim or non-Muslim, that a Muslim country can conquer in the face of American opposition. And the Muslim ruler who initiated hostilities could face Gaddafi’s or Saddam’s fate.

    • Replies: @Talha
  409. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Jon0815

    Armstrong also said that up to 40% of the Russian Army of Liberation (POA) maybe had up to 40% ethnic Ukrainians (people qualifying as such), including Sergey Bunyachenko who commanded that army’s role in the liberation of Prague (from the Nazis), the last scene of WW II Euro theater fighting. Tack on the many more Ukrainians who fought on the side of the Red Army.

    The OUN/UPA had a limited base.

  410. Mikhail says: • Website
    @anonymous coward

    No, the Galician Ukrainians don’t want to join up with Poland and if anything have tended (at least for portions of history) to be more anti-Polish than other Ukrainians. That was certainly the case during the Russian Civil War, and the years between two world wars.

  411. @Thorfinnsson

    It’s also worth noting that in Canada Quebecois men have traditionally had a reputation for lowering themselves to miscegenation with squaws, reflected in the term Métis. No such word among Anglo-Canadians or Americans, and in fact Americans were forced to import the term “mestizo” from the race-mixing Hispanics.

    1. English half-breed: “half-caste offspring of parents of different races (especially of white and Indian parents)”.

    2. Mestizo’s “popularity” in English is relatively new: Google N-gram confirms that half-breed was the dominant term in English until 1940, with mestizo barely used before 1900.

    3. Métis is not a term specifically referring to half-Amerindians and has a long heritage in French going back to to at least the 12th century:

    A ces mestiz Franceis, demie Borgoing . . .

    Girart de Roussillon, Chanson de geste ancienne

  412. @for-the-record

    A ces mestiz Franceis, demie Borgoing

    What’s “Borgoing”? Someone from Burgundy? So “Franceis” in that text would refer to the original Francia in the Île-de-France?

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  413. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    The so-called “genetic research” being a fuzzy science for a main reason previously brought up.

    Plenty of people qualifying as ethnic Ukrainians with closer genetic ties to Russia than Poland and (for that matter) Galician Ukrainians.

  414. I wonder whether we shouldn’t try and steer the conversation back to the appropriateness of celebrating May 8-9. Perhaps it is inevitable that a thread with hundreds of comments will turn towards other topics. Nevertheless I think we should try (or at least I will try):

    While I disagree with stopping Victory Day, I don’t think emphasising the political aspect of the victory of the war against Germany is that good a thing. We are three-quarters of a century away from the end of the war. Will we keep doing this until we hit 100? Eventually the war will seem as relevant as Napoleonic wars are seen today. It will be hard to inspire much emotion in the populace.

    Therefore I think that the idea of the Immortal Regiments are a good idea as suffering will be much more relateable for most people, especially familial suffering. It can also be expanded to people who died in other wars besides WWII. This will make the day more universal and ensure that it can maintain relevance even after every veteran of the Great Patriotic War has passed away and the war becomes ever more distant.

    The Immortal Regiments also seem less likely to devolve into unhealthy Stalin-worship like other types of VD celebrations are vulnerable to.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  415. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Gerard2

    Sarcastically put, must run a genetic test on Poroshenko’s son. Many others like him.

  416. @French Basque

    Something I like pointing out to pozzed churchians rushing to embrace rapefugees is that Jesus Christ commanded us to go out and make disciples of all nations, not to abolish all nations.

    Tocqueville notes that the American replacement of the Amerindians was indeed largely accomplished without massacres, though there were three centuries of intermittent warfare between Americans and the Indians. The harshest wars being the earliest ones (King Philip’s War in particular) and to a lesser extent the struggles against against the Sioux, Apaches, and Comanches.

    Regarding the extinction of German culture in the Rhineland/Palatinate, I do agree with both of your points: (1) the French wanted to do it and (2) failed to achieve it. L. Rebatet (who later became one of the lead Collaborationists with the Germans and barely escaped execution in 1945) wrote memorable lines about his own witnessing of the departure of French troops from Coblence in 1930. But again, it is a matter of nuance: I think that to a large extent it can be justified on the grounds that the Roman Empire’s ultimate limit there had always been found the be the Rhine itself. As a result, it can be legitimately upheld that the frontières naturelles of Romance lands stop at the Rhine. Not that any of this matters any more, anyway, as German’s demographics ensure its disappearance as an ethnos within a few generations.

    I don’t think this needs any kind of justification. Annexing the Rhineland enhances French power and security, thus it was logical to pursue this objective. It also certainly helps that the Rhineland is Catholic and has many excellent vineyards. Historically many Rhenish Germans were Francophiles and many Rhenish elites actively conspired with the French, and the famed Rhenish German patriot Ernst Moritz Arndt who burned with hatred for France was in reality a Pomeranian.

    Konrad Adenauer was such a Francophile that he was, in his heart, a traitor. During the French occupation of the Ruhr Adenauer actively conspired with the French. After the war he was personally opposed to German reunification, considered Berlin to be dispensable, and reportedly always drew the blinds on the train whenever crossing the Elbe. He was in many ways quite typical of anti-Prussian Rhenish Catholic politicians, who preferred vassalage to France over leadership by Prussia.

    Franco-German enmity these days, of course, is a quaint notion. There are bigger fish to fry to say the least.

  417. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Ukraine has about the same population as Poland. It would not be dominated by Poland as it would be by Russia, which is almost 4 times Ukraine’s population. Polish nationalism doesn’t think that Ukraine does not exist – Russian nationalism does.

    Moscow grabbed Ukraine twice.

    Bullshit. Polish nationalism has historically sought an anti-Russian Ukrainian puppet entity serving Polish interests.

  418. @for-the-record

    The English say (or said, rather) half-breed and half-caste, not Americans (unsure of Canadians).

    Mestizo is indeed recent for obvious reasons, but other Spanish terms such as mulatto and negro were imported. The terms quadroon, octaroon, and hexadecaroon likewise derived from Spanish and French.

    I was not aware that Métis is an old word, thank you for sharing. But it remains true that in Canada traditionally the pea soup eaters had an infamous reputation for miscegenation.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  419. Talha says:
    @Johann Ricke

    The Muslim states are somewhat peaceful today because they can’t get loot and slaves from losing wars.

    No, it’s because they have signed up to international protocols of non-aggression. European countries have been peaceful for what? About 7 decades since the last fire-bomb-your-cities-tango? Hell, they invited Muslim troops from their colonies to participate in a few dances. And we are supposed to take this stuff seriously?

    There is not a single country, Muslim or non-Muslim, that a Muslim country can conquer in the face of American opposition.

    That’s fine, you assume we want to. I don’t particularly care to and I don’t know of any popular sentiment in the Muslim world to expand borders by war except by the extremists. Modern war is an anathema, you end up laying to waste the countries you attempt to conquer and annihilating their populations. It was one thing in the past to take on an empire on the battlefield (soldiers to soldiers) and have its hopes and dreams bleed out, but trying to expand Islamic territory by means of modern war will only make more and more people vomit at the thought of the religion – which is completely counterproductive.

    As of recent, the most aggressive international player has been the US (flouting international law and attacking countries which have done it no harm), so – again – I’m not sure the Muslim world is going to take this preaching seriously.

    As far as the projection of American power, she needs the Muslim world to attack other Muslim countries; without compliance from places like Kuwait and Pakistan and Jordan, American supply lines would be cut easily. America could lose multiple field armies. Sure they could lob a bunch of cruise missiles and do damage, but that’s not holding territory.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  420. @LondonBob

    While the first abolitionists were Quakers, it was New England that became the hotbed of abolitionism.

    John Brown was a descendant of Puritans, and while William Lloyd Garrison was not of Puritan stock he was from Massachusetts.

    Yankees produced fine minds in general, but not all of those fine minds were put to good use as were the minds of Stoddard and Grant.

    The quasi-judaized millenarian universalism of puritanism frequently expresses itself in radical commitments to “equality”, and has done so for at least two centuries. This is why Southern dissidents are fond of blaming Yankees over the Jews for equalitarianism.

    • Replies: @iffen
  421. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I had this discussion with Talha* a long time ago on this thread: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/islamic-state-within-russia/ back when I had more time than I do now. Basically you’re both right but Talha is much more right about recent history. Even the weird outliers of the Muslim world like the KSA are not about to wage holy wars for the heck of it, even if they could get away with it.

    Now, plenty of non-state Muslim actors are willing to do this, but I think that’s a different discussion.

    *I’m using third rather than second person here because I’m addressing both Talha and Johann Ricke.

  422. @Greasy William

    Haha. The Saker must have written this just for you. It isn’t headlining yet. He’s waiting for your comments.

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-skripals-will-most-likely-never-be-allowed-to-talk/

    I think Ron should give you your own blog here as you are easily the most talented and entertaining writer on UNZ. Keep up the great work!

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Jayce
  423. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Hyperborean

    There’s no reason why Victory Day can’t be celebrated in a non-Sovok way, as is pretty much the case in Russia.

  424. Dmitry says:
    @Johnny Rico

    I believe, Saker is an old unemployed Western European man (?) , that reads some news websites online, and then constructs random theories of world politics from these based on his emotions at the time.

    He’s clever in a way, as made some business by saying to gullible people on the internet that he has special knowledge of politics, or knows what is happening in distant parts of the world (when he is some unemployed man thousands of kilometers away from countries he writes about).

    As for a Greasy trolling style blog. I think Thorfinnsson needs to blog as well.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Greasy William
  425. Jayce says:
    @Johnny Rico

    Exactly as expected. The only thing that gets me is why he hasn’t just converted to Islam already and given up the pretense of having anything to do with Russian issues.

    • Replies: @Talha
  426. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Ok I found Saker is a Swiss man. But has immigrated to America. I wonder if he is a French Swiss or German Swiss? Well perhaps curiosity does not go so far.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Thorfinnsson
  427. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    He’s a White Russian iirc.

  428. @Dmitry

    I don’t have the link, but maybe Anatoly knows who I am referring to.

    There is some English language Russophile blog where the writer apparently has a bad relationship with The Saker over I’m not sure what. Anyway, the writer of that blog in one of his articles said, “The only worthwhile thing about The Saker’s writings is that the likelihood of any given one of his predictions coming to pass is perfectly inversely correlated with the number of times he uses the phrase ‘Anglo-Zionist’ while making it.”

  429. @Dmitry

    The Faker is a White Russian raised in Switzerland currently living in Florida.

    Thank you for the praise in your previous remark, but if I start blogging I will go bankrupt.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  430. Talha says:
    @Jayce

    Islam is a Russian issue; to find out why, one would have to dig up Enpress Catherine and ask her for an interview.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  431. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Was the pushing done by Netanyahu? He showed how he can push in order to be in the front of the parade during ‘Je suis Charlie’ in Paris in 2015.

  432. iffen says:
    @AP

    You count posts?

    No wonder Ukraine is having such a difficult time keeping it going.

  433. iffen says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    it was New England that became the hotbed of abolitionism.

    Which is interesting because there wasn’t that many slaves there.

    • Replies: @Talha
  434. Bigly says:
    @AP

    Genetics shows Ukrainians are closer to Slovaks than they are to Russians. Russians are in third place.

    This is untrue.

    I can concede that Northern Russians may be a little different, but Russians from the south and the oblasts bordering Ukraine are very much like Ukrainians.

    Northern Russians differ a little bit from the average Ukrainian, and Ukrainians from Western Ukraine drifted somewhat from the rest of the population over the centuries, but the difference is still irrelevant, and probably smaller than northern Germans (closer to the Dutch) compare to southern Germans (closer to Austrians).

    • Replies: @AP
  435. Talha says:
    @iffen

    They had less skin in the game…? It does seem easier to tell the other guy to free his slaves when your own bread and butter doesn’t depend on it.

    Peace.

  436. LatW says:
    @French Basque

    If the spread of English is what concerns you (it doesn’t bother me personally but I agree that in some contexts it can become problematic and for southern Euros it’s always been an issue — this is definitely worth looking into for the future as well), and from what you wrote it seems you’re wondering why Ukrainians would abandon the Rusich culture for the “Anglo domination” – well, they won’t. My insight is that the sheer scale of both Ukrainian and Russian languages can make a difference on how “Anglicized” Ukrainians will become (or rather will not become). Ukrainian – big language by European standards, Russian – enormous even if not widely spoken beyond Eastern Europe. Most of the world’s literature is translated into Russian. It seems that more Ukrainians are currently learning English than before (by and large, Eastern Slavs do not speak English – even many professional types get by without it) and maybe eventually most of them will learn it gradually — BUT most importantly — they will continue relying on both Ukrainian and Russian sources even while retaining their new geopolitical orientation (and as in any pluralistic society, Ukraine has a mixture of orientations such as pro-European, pro-Russian, neutral and, hopefully, Ukrainian centered/pro-Intermarium – we might even consider Russian as one of the languages of Intermarium, and if the EU will never make Russian an official language, Intermarium would make it at least a working language – although we don’t know what the linguistic landscape will look like once the children grow up – my guess is that many will still be bilingual). These languages are so self-sufficient that English would only be needed for some business and in case of the EU accession (hypothetical) in politics, but even then there would be sufficient translation (esp., now with AI). So we can even argue that Ukrainians (including Russophone pro-Western, neutral or pro-Intermarium Ukrainians) will be able to continue relying on their own languages indefinitely, without having to integrate into the English language space to the extent that for instance, the Dutch and the Scandinavians have (the Scandinavians have not only brought all their humanities departments in line with the British analytical tradition but have already internalized American humor, as observed in that silly Netflix series Norsemen). Thus they will retain their Rusich character.

    Now this raises an ethical question – is it ok to use the Russian language against Russia itself? But then I notice, ethics isn’t usually much of a consideration for some of the most passionate types here.

  437. @German_reader

    What’s “Borgoing”? Someone from Burgundy? So “Franceis” in that text would refer to the original Francia in the Île-de-France?

    Franceis would presumably refer to a direct subject of the King of France, so at that time a bit more than the Île-de-France — see sky blue portion of map; Borgoing to the Duché de Bourgogne + Seigneurie de Bourbon + Comté de Bourgogne (present-day Franche-Comté).

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Map_France_1180-fr.svg

    • Replies: @German_reader
  438. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    the Triune idea, which after all admits that Little Russians are indeed distinct from Great Russians… It views them as two types of Rus who ought to unite.

    You see, there’s a flaw either in the theory itself, or in the way that you present it here. If the Triune idea holds that Ukrainians and Russians are two distinct nationalities, then how can they become a part of ‘Rus’ which they also view as a nationality? I think that most of them believe that the idea of the Ukrainians making up a separate nationality is heresy concocted to divide the one true Rus people asunder. In other words, the proponents of this idea don’t actually hold that the Ukrainians are indeed a ‘distinct nationality’, but some kind of imaginary, thought up one, that doesn’t really exist.

    In any case, whatever they believe about the separateness of these two nationalities, can there really be any doubt in your mind, that if these two ‘brotherly’ nations were to somehow magically be ‘reunited’ which culture, language and historical views would predominate in any such relationship? It’s a sham designed to russify Ukraine, the dream of Russian nationalists for a very long time now. It’s too bad that Karlin has decided to make this topic #1 on his top 10 verboten list. He should quit bringing it up if he’s not willing to discuss it in more depth! :-(

  439. @Thorfinnsson

    The English say (or said, rather) half-breed and half-caste, not Americans

    Not so sure about that:

    Half-Breed Tract

    A Half-Breed Tract was a segment of land designated in the western states by the United States government in the 19th century specifically for Métis of American Indian and European or European-American ancestry, at the time commonly known as half-breeds [!!!]. The government set aside such tracts in several parts of the Midwestern prairie region, including in Iowa Territory, Nebraska Territory, Kansas Territory, Minnesota Territory,[1] and Wisconsin Territory.[2]

    Perhaps that was before your time . . .

  440. LatW says:

    Another quick point – somebody mentioned above that Ukrainian nationalists are somehow “allies of America”. I know it’s very tempting to say that but it isn’t really accurate. The “allies” are the Ukrainian government (at best) and Western European governments. It is not the Ukrainian nationalists.

    I can’t speak for all Ukrainian nationalists but I’ll permit myself to speak for the head of the National Corps – he does not care about the EU (but supports Intermarium, of course) or the US, in fact, given the latest American “gestures”, he’s repeatedly told them to take a hike. When your ideological enemies (with the help of agents from another country) attempt to capture your city, and when you have been imprisoned by Yanukovich’s regime for beating up an antifa and have been essentially held as a political prisoner, then it would be simply weird for such a man to not fight back. He doesn’t need anybody’s permission to defend his city and the homeland of his ancestors.

    And here again I see a big ethical dilemma – this time for Anglo nationalists who harp on Ukrainian nationalists. Before you point fingers, maybe you should take care of communists in your own countries first? The US has Hindu communists, such as Ro Khanna and Khamila what’s her name (a fresh of the boat foreigner!), running wild around the whole West coast. They are also attacking Poles and Ukrainians. Why does the head of National Corps have to take away from his precious time to fight your commies? It’s not his job, guys, do your homework and then point fingers.

    • Replies: @LatW
  441. @for-the-record

    Looks like I was wrong.

    Good find.

  442. LatW says:
    @LatW

    Sorry, mixed up Kamila with Kshawa (lol) – the point still stands.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  443. @LatW

    Kamala Harris.

    It’s even more embarrassing than you think.

    The lady owes her career to getting piped by Willie Brown, long the top black fixer in California.

    Her coal burning Tamil mother was, naturally, abandoned by her Jamaican father.

    Remind you of another “American” politician–recently retired?

    Though Donald Harris did stick around a few more years than Barack Obama Sr, and he didn’t practice bigamy.

  444. @for-the-record

    Yep, pretty sure Injun Joe in Tom Sawyer was referred to as a half breed in rather pejorative terms.

  445. @LondonBob

    If Hitler had taken he Med via North Africa, not only oil would have his. He would also have had a supply route to South Russia better Than the USSR could provide overland. No more problems using horse carts in the mud.

  446. @Dave Pinsen

    The hard part is recycling the crew’s waste into food. I’ve worked with ESA and Russian space scientists on the problem. Biosphere Two, with a large amount of space did not end well.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  447. @Silva

    The Kikuyu killed many thousands of Luo and other tribes. It was not a liberation struggle. Like most such, t was a struggle for post colonial power. The Luo are still attacked.

  448. AP says:
    @Bigly

    Genetics shows Ukrainians are closer to Slovaks than they are to Russians. Russians are in third place.

    This is untrue.

    It is true:

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Ukraine and Slovakia have the smallest distance between them.

    The chart you have does not include Slovaks. They are closer to Ukrainians than are Poles.

    I can concede that Northern Russians may be a little different, but Russians from the south and the oblasts bordering Ukraine are very much like Ukrainians.

    Very similar, but measurably different, and measurably more different than different Ukrainians. The study I posted is more recent.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Mikel
  449. Dmitry says:

    I found Saker is Swiss. He says his father is Dutch and that his mother is descended from Russian aristocrats (so maybe this ‘noble man’s’ ancestors came to Switzerland after 1917).

    He writes like he is Russophile. But it is unclear if this so useful. For example, if a man invents false, allegedly positive things about your country, is this positive? I remember on the last time I read his blog – he was arguing that ‘in Russia people do not care about money’.

    Actually people were attacking Karlin in the comments when he said it was a crazy article:

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russian-presidential-elections-boring-useless-and-necessary/#comments

    Lol the comment section under that article is one of the classics of the Unz website.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    , @Ivan K.
  450. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Something strongly reminds of the character ‘Charles Kinbote’ in the novel ‘Pale Fire’.

    I would recommend this book by the way – if anyone else here has read it?

    • Replies: @utu
  451. @French Basque

    Here in Wales, English domination has placed SJWs in perpetual power.

  452. @DFH

    Wales. From 1535 there was a systematic attempt to destroy Welsh Law (described by Karl Marx as Communist), culture and language. Didn’t work until a million Anglo Irish immigrants swamped the coal field, about a million Welsh lived there. The third million still have substantial clusters of Welsh speakers.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  453. @LondonBob

    40% of Mormon Utah has Welsh grandparents. Ethnicly, Mormons are mostly a mix of Welsh and Liverpudlian with some London seasoning. Becoming a Mormon was a secure way to emigrate. You were found a job and a home.

  454. @Gerard2

    Get some education in the matter. It was much more than Trade. There were three treaties in a row specifically about military-industrial cooperation. Your usual one dimensional blather.

  455. @for-the-record

    Clint Eastwood’s roles have sometimes had him speaking the word ‘breed. Wayne spoke it too.

  456. @Dmitry

    Asker’s break was translating Strelkov’s posts on VK.com into English. Strelkov’s was the most truthful and straightforward reporter on the Russian Nationalist insurgency into Ukraine.

  457. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    I read it but tell you the truth I do not remember much. Embarrassing,

  458. @Philip Owen

    The Welsh language should be destroyed. It sounds like a cat being strangled, and its existence only serves to propagate the risk of the creation of an unnecessary and necessarily inferior country.

    I was shocked and appalled when I toured Welsh castles in the naughties to hear Welsh routinely spoken. Britain has clearly failed.

    • Replies: @songbird
  459. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Islam is a Russian issue not only since Catherine, but since Saint Vladimir of blessed memory for those able to take the pain to acquaint themselves with Russian history (I mean real Russian history).
    What the oldest Russian Chronicle tells us is that, when still a pagan, Vladimir was assailed by missionaries from four different quarters. First came the Bulgarians of ‘Mahometan law’ who urged the Prince to come to their law and honor Mahomed. The prince inquired about their law, and although he was pleased that after death one can enjoy endlessly 70 virgins (he dearly loved women) he was less enthusiastic about circumlocution, abstention from pork and especially from wine: ‘wine is a great pleasure for Russians, we can’t live without’; so he sent them back from whence they came.
    Secondly came the Germans (Catholics) and they were sent back too.
    Thirdly came the Jewish Khazars, but when Vladimir found out that they have been driven out from their country (Jerusalem) for their sins (as the Khazars explained) he got angry an told them: “if God would have loved you He would have kept you in your own country, we don’t want such a thing happening to us” and kicked them out.
    Fourthly came the Greeks, and the rest is known.

    But neither of the rejected ones renounced and started launching attacks against the ‘infidels’, the Muslims being the most aggressive (Bulgarians, Tartars, Ottomans) pillaging, raping, enslaving the population for few centuries, until the Russians recovered their forces and turned the tables, dealing with them more harshly and clearing the country of this scourge and making them inoffensive. It was pay back. But that started long before Catherine. And it should be noted that the treatment of Muslims was much more lenient than the treatment of Christians under Muslim rule.
    They tried it again recently, but the Russians of today are no more the Russians of Kievan times. Chechens learned their lesson. Grudgingly the Turks also.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Pharmakon
  460. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The Welsh language should be destroyed.

    Do you think it is wise to risk angering the Martians?

  461. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    Fortunately, not everyone in Ukraine has your view on the holiday.

    Particularly, please listen to the wiser comments of the veterans at 6:30 in the video:

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Pharmakon
  462. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    It was pay back.

    Yup, the Rus let it be known that they would not stand to be the victims of periodic slave raids – Ivan turned that franchise around.

    And it should be noted that the treatment of Muslims was much more lenient than the treatment of Christians under Muslim rule.

    I would generally agree once Catherine comes on the scene and starts adopting enlightenment policies.

    Chechens learned their lesson.

    Indeed. As did the Russians; if you want to occupy Chechen land, best pay for the privilege of them hosting you. It seems to work out best for everyone.

    But I definitely agree; don’t mess with Russia is a good policy to abide by.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Seraphim
  463. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    I’m not enamored of Sovok traditions. Let them be erased with time. But, the guy at 8:00 was quite obnoxious (why not let these people celebrate in peace?) even though his overall point was correct. 9:01 was reasonable.

    Which of Karlin’s points do you disagree with?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  464. AP says:
    @AP

    Ukraine and Slovakia have the smallest distance between them.

    Correction: Belarus and Ukraine do. Then, Slovakia and Ukraine. Russia is in third place.

  465. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Oh yes, as Bismarck put it:
    “Do not expect that once taking advantage of Russia’s weakness, you will receive dividends forever. Russian has always come for their money. And when they come – do not rely on an agreement signed by you, you are supposed to justify. They are not worth the paper it is written. Therefore, with the Russian is to play fair, or do not play”.
    Alas, another word of his came true:
    “What we learn from History is that no one learns from History”.

  466. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Philip Owen

    Yeah, I can see that being a problem. One solution might be to send food ahead in automated supply ships the cosmonauts could link up with along the way.

  467. Art Best says:

    The author is an intelligent man disseminating crucial ideas and information. Anatoly Karlin is not a self-hating Russian like the CIA/Hasbara trolls infesting the internet, claim in the comments section.

    The Bolsheviks who were Jews in their overwhelming majority, bolstered by the sociopathic elements from the populations under Soviet rule, withdrew in 1917 the victorious Russian army from the Ottoman territory it had liberated from Turkish rule, namely eastern Armenia, leaving the starving Armenians who had already been subject to the first and greatest phase of the 1915 genocide committed by the Turks, largely defenseless against further depredations by the same.

    To add insult to injury, the Russians under Jewish (Bolshevik) rule supplied arms and ammunition, and money, to their former enemies, the Turks, enabling the Turks to defeat the Greek army who would have otherwise succeeded in liberating Asia Minor from Turkish rule thus emancipating the Christian populations of Anatolia at last.

    The Jews made up the political elite of WWI-era Ottoman Turkey. So you had the Jews ruling Russia collaborating with the Jews in power in Turkey to perpetrate the genocide of the first Christian nation of history, the Armenians: https://russia-insider.com/en/real-holocaust-1915-armenian-genocide-and-its-russophobic-origins/ri22877

  468. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    It is hard to see what ‘privilege’ is to occupy Chechen land other than keeping in line an obnoxious population where the largest ethnic organized crime groups operating in the former Soviet Union next to established Russian mafia groups, the ‘Chechenskaya mafiya’ was recruited from.

    • Replies: @Talha
  469. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Then leave and put up a solid fence, you guys are intelligent. Don’t tell me a bunch of Chechens are outsmarting you.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  470. I think it is mainly celebrated because it is popular, and because the government wants some part of that popularity, not because of some sort of mental 666D chess of the kind that you’re arguing for here. For my part, I don’t particularly care about what values it supposedly imposes on people (except for basic values of altruistic patriotism, but those, though they can be misapplied, strike me as basically good – it doesn’t impose them, though, those ones are natural, it simply amplifies them). I think it is entirely worthwhile to celebrate an escape from conquest and colonisation, and to commemorate those who have achieved this escape. That it is being constantly misinterpreted and misused means nothing – that’s true of every holiday.

    Even so, would you really deny that it IS, popularly, the foundational myth of modern Russia? Not of the Soviet Union – of Russia. I think it has the right to be such, given its impact on the population (the deaths, the moves, the countless other changes) and its consciousness. For good or ill, the post-war generation has defined this country in countless ways. And as far as origins go it is a damn sight better than the origin of the modern Russian state, which is rightly not celebrated by anyone.

    As for the war itself, yes, it was an avoidable tragedy. We didn’t avoid it, though. Alternate history is fascinating but I think that what DID happen matters a lot more than what COULD HAVE. Fixating on that is truly a form of living in the past.

    • Replies: @Ivan K.
  471. Jon0815 says:
    @AP

    Of course, Ukrainians are not Chechens and Russia’s military has much-improved since 1999. But a loss rate of 30,000 or so to insurgency, 1/5 of the rate in Chechnya, (in addition to the 1,000-2,000 killed during the initial invasion) is not an unreasonable estimate.

    If Russian forces stop at the 1939 border and don’t enter Galicia, perhaps they will lose 10,000 to insurgency (plus the 1-2K in the initial invasion).

    I think 30,000 is unreasonably high, in part because this would be very close to the number that the Soviets lost after WWII to the UPA, and there are several reasons why a hypothetical Ukrainian insurgency would find it much more difficult to kill that same number of Russian troops today.

    First, the Red Army personnel didn’t have modern body armor, which significantly reduces the number of combat injuries. Second, they also didn’t have modern battlefield medicine: For US soldiers, the % of combat injuries that resulted in deaths dropped from 24% in Vietnam to 13% in Iraq, and presumably the mortality rate for wounded Russian soldiers today would also be much lower than it was for the Red Army in the 1940s. Third, the Red Army troops were conscripts with no training or experience in counter-insurgency. A modern Russian force would undoubtedly be much more effective. And fourth, today the need for occupying forces to venture off their bases and expose themselves to danger, is reduced by surveillance and attack drones.

    So I’d put the plausible ceiling for Russian casualties in an occupation of all of Ukraine, at less than half what the UPA inflicted inflicted on the Red Army, or around 10,000. And for eastern/central Ukraine alone, probably under 5000 (similar to the 3500 US KIA in Iraq, an area of similar population size).

  472. AP says:

    I think 30,000 is unreasonably high, in part because this would be very close to the number that the Soviets lost after WWII to the UPA

    The Soviets lost that number to UPA in only the Volyn swamps and in the Carpathians, geographically small regions. Here we are talking about an ocupation of the entire country, including large urban areas such as Kiev.

    the Red Army personnel didn’t have modern body armor, which significantly reduces the number of combat injuries. Second, they also didn’t have modern battlefield medicine

    Good point, OTOH Ukrainian insurgents would also have these things, enabling them to suffer fewer casualties, fight longer.

    Third, the Red Army troops were conscripts with no training or experience in counter-insurgency.

    A lot of the losses by the Soviets to UPA were NKVD counter-insurgency troops. Soviets had experience with partisans and knew what they were doing.

    And fourth, today the need for occupying forces to venture off their bases and expose themselves to danger, is reduced by surveillance and attack drones.

    These work better in a desert environent than in wooded areas or open battlefields.

    I’d put the plausible ceiling for Russian casualties in an occupation of all of Ukraine, at less than half what the UPA inflicted inflicted on the Red Army, or around 10,000. And for eastern/central Ukraine alone, probably under 5000 (similar to the 3500 US KIA in Iraq, an area of similar population size).

    I doubt that occupying all of nationalistic Ukraine (around 30 million people) would result in almost as many casualties as occupying Chechnya (1.4 million people).

    • Replies: @Jon0815
  473. Mikel says:
    @French Basque

    Late to the party, as usual. Another Ukraine/Russia sh*tstorm with a fellow Basque stirring the pot. I need to be more attentive.

    A note regarding Spanish Basque independence: I am all for it (like the Spanish Catalan one, or the Belgian Wallon one), because it means inevitable annexation by France.

    Most unlikely. According to the latest Eurostat figures, the Spanish Basque Country per capita GDP is similar to the German one in PPP terms. It used to be higher than that before the Great Recession. Nothing to gain for us in a such an annexation, which would put us under the rule of an even more alien master.

    Regarding Basque culture, in fact I find it much more vibrant in France than in Spain

    Counter-intuitive, for such a diglossic territory with no autonomous institutions but possibly true. When more than half of the population has Spanish roots and you try to assimilate them to the Basque identity, you end up with an artificial construct of Surzhyk-like speaking people. It looks like the Ukrainians are trying to pursue this path too.

    Spanish Basque women who seem to be attracted to the independence movement appear to competing for the most-ugly woman on Earth contest

    True. For some unfortunate reason, SJWism in the Spanish Basque Country has permeated the independence movement and included a variant of feminism that rejects sexy appearance. Disgusting.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @French Basque
  474. Mikel says:
    @AP

    It is true:

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Ukraine and Slovakia have the smallest distance between them.

    I have no idea how you think your link supports that conclusion. Besides, Y-chromosome haplogroups are a rather weak indicator of genetic closeness. According to them, we Basques would be more closely related to the Irish and the Welsh than to our immediate neighbors. You need SNP-based comparisons to back your assertion and I suspect that they all show the strong Russian-Ukrainian overlap displayed in Bigly’s graph.

    • Replies: @AP
  475. DFH says:
    @Mikel

    True. For some unfortunate reason, SJWism in the Spanish Basque Country has permeated the independence movement and included a variant of feminism that rejects sexy appearance. Disgusting.

    I’ve always assumed it was a hangover from the 60s when all independence movements were left-wing because it was fashionable and got international support, similar to Sinn Fein in Ireland (although it’s odder with Basques since, I believe, previous national movements were reactionary in character whether as Irish republicanism has been left-wing since 1798).

    • Replies: @Mikel
  476. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    I found Karlin’s post, to be an entertaining ‘devil’s advocate’. On the other hand, of course it misses the real meaning of the holiday and the importance of respect. Although I think your compatriots of Kiev have explained that in the video above better than me.

  477. Mikel says:
    @DFH

    I’ve always assumed it was a hangover from the 60s when all independence movements were left-wing

    Yes, that’s how it all started but it’s more complex and includes some local elements. With ETA’s dissolution may people have been left orphaned of ideals to militate for and a strong matriarchal tradition in the Basque country is probably playing a role too.

  478. Jon0815 says:
    @AP

    A lot of the losses by the Soviets to UPA were NKVD counter-insurgency troops. Soviets had experience with partisans and knew what they were doing.

    According what I’ve read on the subject (admittedly not a lot), it wasn’t until 1947 that the Soviets finally started using sophisticated counter-insurgency methods, such as infiltration and establishing an espionage network within the UPA.

    I doubt that occupying all of nationalistic Ukraine (around 30 million people) would result in almost as many casualties as occupying Chechnya (1.4 million people).

    It’s very plausible, both due to likely differences in mortality rates, and the fact that Chechnya was a highly unusual case.

    The quality of battlefield medical care for Russian forces in Chechnya, like everything else about the Russian military at the time, was undoubtedly extremely poor, with the mortality rate for wounded troops probably at least high as that of US forces in Vietnam. Whereas for Russian troops today, it would probably be much closer to that of US troops in Iraq. So with equalized mortality rates, the difference in casualties relative to population size would probably be around 10-1 rather than 20-1.

    And Chechnya was proportionally far more deadly for the occupying force than a typical insurgency. For example, it was about 3 times as deadly as Afghanistan was for the USSR (15,000 troops killed, in a country of 14 million). And 26 times as deadly as Iraq was for the USA (3500 troops killed in a country of 25 million), or probably about 13 times deadlier even with equalized mortality rates.

    • Replies: @AP
  479. AP says:
    @Mikel

    It is true:

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

    Ukraine and Slovakia have the smallest distance between them.

    I have no idea how you think your link supports that conclusion.

    I just counted differences. Ukrainians are closet of all to Belarusians, Slovaks are in second place, Russians in third.

    You need SNP-based comparisons to back your assertion and I suspect that they all show the strong Russian-Ukrainian overlap displayed in Bigly’s graph.

    There is also Polish overlap. Slovaks weren’t on the chart in Bigly’s graph but they would be closer than Poles and Russians.

    Even according to Bigly’s chart Russians on average are further from Ukrainians – only southern and central Russians are close and overlap, northern ones are much further (as far as Swedes from Germans).

    Besides, Y-chromosome haplogroups are a rather weak indicator of genetic closeness.

    Slovaks are closer to Ukrainians than are Russians on maternal haplogroups also:

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtml

    So in summary, in terms of both maternal and paternal haplogroup ratios, Ukrainians are more like Slovaks than they are like Russians.

    According to them, we Basques would be more closely related to the Irish and the Welsh than to our immediate neighbors

    Why should some sort of link be strange? Basques and Celts are both ancient peoples and Basques have been isolated. They may have similar origins, but split long before modern languages were formed.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/1310634/Basques-are-brothers-of-the-Celts.html

    WELSH and Irishmen are genetic blood-brothers of the Basque people, according to a study published today.

    The findings provide the first direct evidence of a close relationship between the people thought of as Celts and the Basques. The Basques are thought to be the closest descendants of the Palaeolithic people who established the first settlements in Britain more than 10,000 years ago.

    The evidence of a link is in a study by James Wilson and Prof David Goldstein of University College London, with colleagues at Oxford University and the University of California, Davis. The study is published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    The team looked for similarities between the Y chromosomes – only carried by men – of 88 “Celtic fringe” individuals from Anglesey, North Wales, 146 from Ireland with Irish Gaelic surnames, and 50 Basques, revealing “remarkable” similarities.

    The Celts carry the early Y chromosome, said the study, which provides the first clear evidence of a close relationship in the paternal heritage of Basque and Celtic speaking populations. “They were statistically indistinguishable,” said Prof Goldstein.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Mikel
  480. AP says:
    @Jon0815

    According what I’ve read on the subject (admittedly not a lot), it wasn’t until 1947 that the Soviets finally started using sophisticated counter-insurgency methods, such as infiltration and establishing an espionage network within the UPA

    This is when they started successfully infiltrating UPA (interestingly UPA had also been able to infiltrate NKVD). However prior to that it was mostly special NKVD troops struggling with UPA, not regular army conscripts. UPA managed to kill Soviet general Vatutin and, in Poland, Polish Communist general Karol Świerczewski.

    I was friends in Moscow with a former FSB officer, who now works for a Russian state-owned company. He expressed a sort of professional respect for UPA/OUN (even though I am not a fan of theirs), and told me that there was a large influx of Galicians into the KGB in the late 1950s and 1960s, some of whom were from UPA families. The population was deemed to be good at this sort of thing. I couldn’t corroborate this through google. supposedly one of the highest ranking members of the FSB is actually a native of Galicia (I forgot his name, and my friend and I are no longer in touch due to his bad divorce from a family friend). I could however corroborate a single case, a Galician uncle of mine who did very well in that profession. So I was never surprised when SBU often quietly took Ukrainian nationalist positions (i.e., during the Orange Revolution).

    For example, it was about 3 times as deadly as Afghanistan was for the USSR (15,000 troops killed, in a country of 14 million)

    So if Ukraine is more like Afghanistan than Chechnya it would be about 30,000 Russian troops killed.

    And 26 times as deadly as Iraq was for the USA (3500 troops killed in a country of 25 million)

    I’m not sure if Russian conscripts would have casualty rates as low as those of US troops. Also, Americans had the advatnage of sectarian conflict n Iraq; outside of Kharkiv and Odessa it would be a rather monolithically anti-Russian population.

    • Replies: @Jon0815
  481. @AP

    Even according to Bigly’s chart Russians on average are further from Ukrainians – only southern and central Russians are close and overlap, northern ones are much further (as far as Swedes from Germans).

    Speaking as a Swede I wouldn’t really have a problem with incorporation into Germany (not today’s pozzed federal republic ofc) and the replacement of the Swedish language with German. All of the continental Germanic peoples are about as similar as the East Slavs are.

    And Swedish incorporation into Germany is a much bigger stretch than Ukrainian incorporation into Russia.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @DFH
    , @Yevardian
  482. Mikel says:
    @AP

    Plenty of mistakes in that Telegraph article. The genetic link between Basques and people living in Celtic speaking areas (which is not the same as the whole country where that language is still spoken) is very-very old news. And indeed it makes a lot of sense. We are all descendants of the early inhabitants of Western Europe that were displaced to the Atlantic fringes by waves of newcomers.

    But when you look at a group of Chinese and a group of Europeans the reason why you can tell them apart immediately is not because they carry *two* different Y and mtdna mutations (which they do). It is because they have *many thousands* of different gene expressions that affect their phenotype. The exercise that you are doing of comparing frequencies of haplogroups to infer genetic similarities between populations is not very solid with the current scientific knowledge. It’s a bit like studying skull shapes for that purpose.

    I’m sure there are plenty of genome-wide, SNP-level studies in the scientific literature that would tell you how close Ukrainians are to Slovaks. At that level we Basques form a distinct cluster but are closer to French and Spaniards than to any British islander.

    • Replies: @AP
  483. AP says:
    @Mikel

    Correct. One’s personal haplotype doesn’t say much about one’s total ancestry. But the % of individuals with each specific measured type within a population give us a good clue about similarity and ancestry.

    In the case of Ukrainians, they are transitional between Slovaks and Russians, but closer to Slovaks. And closest of all to Belarussians.

  484. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I am curious why this aversion to traditional regionalism.

    Would you like to take the next step and unify all Europeans, eliminating European languages and making them speak Esperanto? Why draw the line at Germanics vs. East Slavs vs. Romance peoples?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @DFH
  485. @AP

    I have in fact posted here before that the great dream is to revive the Roman Empire.

    All white people, except perhaps Balkanoid swine, politically and religiously united once more.

    With, of course, local rights and a confederate structure to preserve those rights.

    If we are not able to do so it makes sense to create the largest possible power blocs in one’s own region.

    As for the aversion to “traditional regionalism” it is because I value greatness. Ukraine+Russia for instance can achieve far greater things than either alone. Your ancestors cooperated with Russians to put the first man into outer space as an example.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AP
    , @Seraphim
  486. AaronB says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Hmmm, Nietszche had that idea.

    A higher principle of unity. Beyond nationalism even.

    I like it.

    • Replies: @Talha
  487. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    As for the aversion to “traditional regionalism” it is because I value greatness. Ukraine+Russia for instance can achieve far greater things than either alone.

    The two are not mutually exclusive. Austria-Hungary and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, England-Scotland, etc. Russia-Ukraine could have turned out similarly, had Moscow’s rulers not sought centralization (which backfired and resulted in generations of anti-Russian Ukrainian nationalism).

    Overall, Ukraine would do better with Poland than with Russia. And that is what its people want.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  488. DFH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Speaking as a Swede

    You’re clearly a yank though

  489. Seraphim says:
    @LondonBob

    It is a bit puzzling that Prof. MacDonald, who did such a good job in exposing the Jewish influence in the American thinking, sings such paeans for the Puritans “more Jewish than Protestants”. Let’s see.

    “The Puritans were obsessed with the Bible and came to identify their political struggle against England with that of the ancient Hebrews against Pharaoh or the King of Babylon. Because they identified so strongly with ancient Israel, they chose to identify with the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible). In 1620, the “Separatists” sailed for America on the Mayflower. The Separatists/Puritans who settled at Plymouth Colony called themselves “Pilgrims” because of their wanderings in search of religious freedom. The Puritan culture of New England was marked from the outset by a deep association with Jewish themes. No Christian community in history identified more with the Israelites of the Bible than did the first generations of settlers of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, who believed their own lives to be a literal reenactment of the biblical drama of the chosen people―they were the children of Israel and the ordinances of God’s Holy covenant by which they lived were His divine law. Since they viewed themselves as the persecuted victims of the sinful Christian establishment of the Old World (England), the Puritans also had a natural sympathy for the Jews of their own time. The Protestant Puritan leader Cotton Mather repeatedly referred to the Jews in his prayer for their conversion as God’s “Beloved People.” The New Israel―The influence of the Hebrew Bible marks every step of the Puritan exodus to their Zion in the wilderness of the New World. The Jewish Bible formed their minds and dominated their characters; its conceptions were their conceptions…
    They firmly believed that the Hebrew prophets were speaking to them as directly as they had spoken to the Israelites. Thus the history of the Israelites as related in the Bible served, according to the ministers of the day, as a mirror in which the Puritans could see their own activities reflected. Still considering themselves as Christian Protestants, the Puritans related to the Israelites and their Jewish belief for their fundamental “grounding.
    In this respect they differed sharply from the majority of traditional Christian theologies. To the Puritans the primary lesson of the Old Testament was that a nation as well as an individual could enter into a covenant with God. The Puritans reasoned in America the concept of the covenant would assume new dimensions. Once they reached the colonies a new factor entered into the matter of the covenant. In this New Israel the Puritans established a completely new society based solely upon the Jewish concept of a covenant between God and man. Thus the Puritans made certain of the biblical system they wished to establish in the New World. When, during a convention of Puritan ministers at Boston on May 26, 1698, they confirmed the belief that “under the Old Testament, the Church was constituted by a covenant.” Because of this concept, the Puritan Church was not ruled by a formal and rigid papal hierarchy but derived its direction immediately from God, ruled by His word as revealed in the sacred Jewish Scriptures”.
    @http://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/puritansweremorejewishthanprotestants.html

    Puritanism is the source of the “White nationalism” which is a purely Anglo-Saxon creation.
    No less puzzling is expressed the hatred for the Church, illustrated by the praiseful references to such rabid anti-Christian ‘philosophers’ like Nietzsche or Alain de Benoist, whose anti-Christian arguments are pure Jewish ‘criticism’ – of the kind denounced by Prof. MacDonald. The idea that the “Christian theology is the grandmother of Bolshevism” is preposterous. Equally preposterous is that Christianity destroyed the ‘Western civilization’, when in fact it created it. It was the anti-traditional Protestantism and Puritanism which did it.
    At least Prof. MacDonald does not descend to the ridiculous depths to which many of his admirers sank.

    • Replies: @Pharmakon
  490. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Yes, that would probably be the best solution (it has precedents in the ‘Gates of Alexander’ built by Alexander the Great – your Zulqarnain – in the Caucasus to keep the uncivilized barbarians of the north typically associated with Gog and Magog from invading the land to the south). You see what happened in Paris the other day, when you leave Chechens roaming freely.

  491. I don’t know enough of the article, but I think Victory Day is worthy to celebrate.

    I mean, Russians (with help from others, but still) defeated the Wehrmacht, probably the most efficient fighting machine of the world. (Even today, I’d suspect if you gave modern weapons to the 1941 Wehrmacht, and gave them a couple years to readjust and create new doctrines for them and practice them, they’d probably beat anyone today.) You started out with a huge armed force, which, however, stood on legs of clay, and receiving a near knockout blow in the first few months. Yet you rebuilt your armed forces almost from scratch, with enormous human sacrifice, into a more or less efficient fighting machine, and destroyed the Wehrmacht.

    This is a remarkable victory. Its fruits are not all lost, at least not the most important of them: the very existence of Russia. Russia would not exist without this victory.

    (By the way I’m also not quite convinced about the worth of Russian generals without the purges or whatever. Russian generals were of lower quality than German ones already in 1914. In 1940, even French generals were much worse than German ones. Just about anyone was worse than the Germans. The performance of Russian generals in WW2 wasn’t that bad, actually. Some, like Rokossovsky, would probably be among the best even on the German side. It was Russian NCOs and lower level officers who were worse, but after the initial near knockout blow it was difficult to train masses of them in high quality.)

    • Agree: German_reader
    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Thorfinnsson
  492. Jon0815 says:
    @AP

    So if Ukraine is more like Afghanistan than Chechnya it would be about 30,000 Russian troops killed.

    And if it were more like Iraq, which I think it would be, deaths would be in the thousands rather than tens of thousands.

    Multiple reasons why an occupied Ukraine would be only 1/3rd or less as deadly for the Russian army as Afghanistan was for the Soviet army (aside from lower mortality rates for wounded): Afghanistan had mountainous terrain ideal for guerilla warfare, Afghan guerillas were Muslim fanatics eager to martyr themselves, Soviet conscripts were inferior in quality to the mixed conscript/professional force Russia has today, and modern drone technology reduces the need for dangerous patrols.

    Also, in Ukraine, Russia could recruit a sizable force of pro-Russian Ukrainians to bear some of the casualty burden (starting with the 40,000-strong force already existing in the DLNR) which would be much better motivated and effective than the Afghan Army was in assisting Soviet troops.

    I’m not sure if Russian conscripts would have casualty rates as low as those of US troops. Also, Americans had the advatnage of sectarian conflict n Iraq; outside of Kharkiv and Odessa it would be a rather monolithically anti-Russian population.

    Since 2015, a slight majority of Russian troops have been professional, and the professional % continues to rise. And the sectarian conflict made Iraq more deadly for US troops, not less, since it meant that they had to leave their secure bases to protect civilian neighborhoods from attack. Presumably Russian forces in Ukraine would not need to place themselves at risk to protect Orthodox from Catholics and vice versa.

    • Replies: @AP
  493. @Mikel

    Kaixo Mikel.

    Most unlikely. According to the latest Eurostat figures, the Spanish Basque Country per capita GDP is similar to the German one in PPP terms. It used to be higher than that before the Great Recession. Nothing to gain for us in a such an annexation, which would put us under the rule of an even more alien master.

    [in response to my claim about inevitable annexation]
    I think that in this case our per-capita GDP, PPP, or even mere personal preferences, would matter at all. It is simply the natural historical invariant of French history to absorb her neighbors’ irredentist provinces (cf. Alsace, Nice, Savoie, Comtat Venaissin, etc.). In fact, very recently, it has been revealed that the French GHQ had drafted plans to advance the 6th BLB into Catalunya in case Madrid would not react to the Catalan declaration of independence. I am convinced the same would apply in the case of Eskal Herria, which France (irrespective of its political regime) would tolerate.

    Counter-intuitive, for such a diglossic territory with no autonomous institutions but possibly true. When more than half of the population has Spanish roots and you try to assimilate them to the Basque identity, you end up with an artificial construct of Surzhyk-like speaking people. It looks like the Ukrainians are trying to pursue this path too.

    This is exactly what I am thinking (because I am cognizant of the problem) in the case of Hegoalde, but is only my impression (because I do not know much about the problem) in the case of the Ukraine.

    As a a side note, in the case of Iparralde, there is now (since last year) one such institution officially rooted in the Basque identity, namely, the Euskal Hirigune Elkargoa:

    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communauté_d%27agglomération_du_Pays_Basque

    which is also incidentally the 6th, in terms of population, and the first, in terms of number of incorporated cities, amongst all incorporated metropolitan areas in France. This is the first time since the French Revolution that a local Basque status has been accepted by Paris. Where I see it as being especially encouraging is that here on the North Side, most regionalists are conservatives and even traditionalists, whereas on the South Side they are mostly leftists, all the way from the center-left to plain old marxists.

    True. For some unfortunate reason, SJWism in the Spanish Basque Country has permeated the independence movement and included a variant of feminism that rejects sexy appearance. Disgusting.

    Indeed. The overwhelming evidence is that SJWism makes women ugly, irrespective of where in the world.

    At that level we Basques form a distinct cluster but are closer to French and Spaniards than to any British islander.

    Amen to that. Ergo why I think that what makes the most sense from our perspective is to incarnate our little but beloved patriae in our valleys, and make them radiate and prosper in the world through subsidiarity within a larger, but yet ethnically cohesive enough, nation.
    This is where I differ from Thorfinnson who said he would not object to Sweden being incorporated into Germany, and Swedish language being replaced by German: whereas the former proposition may very well make sense from an ethnic perspective, the latter I think would be a mistake for it would uproot Swedophones.

  494. Ivan K. says: • Website
    @Daniil Adamov

    As for the war itself, yes, it was an avoidable tragedy.

    This view is intriguing. On one hand, many of us think about how it could have been avoided, I do it, and that is entirely natural. On the other hand, it’s quite speculative, … and potentially suffers from delusions of grandeur of people who have the benefit of hindsight.
    Things happened as they happened. That’s pretty much the only objective approach we can have about historical events.

  495. Ivan K. says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    I found Saker is Swiss. He says his father is Dutch [...]

    On this link in Serbian, http://archive.is/2hYPM#selection-840.1-847.14
    a commenter claims that he has communicated with the Saker, and that the Saker has been a famous contributor on the former Serbian online forum „Gazimestan.“ The Saker, he continues, is a Montenegrin.

    He receives a reply that the Saker really sounds like that guy from the “Gazimestan,” and that rumour has it that he is 1) a son of a high official in the Montenegrin security services, 2) educated in Russia, 3) with a doctorate from a Kiev University*.

    (* Either contradictory, or it implies that he received his degree in the Soviet times.)

    In my own brief correspondence with the Saker, his response to me struck me as plain dishonest. Apparently, I’m hardly the only one whose alarm bells for bullshit have been activated by some of his claims. If the Saker can’t tell the full truth, he doesn’t need to write bullshit. It fatally damages the very cause he fights for.

  496. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    Russia-Ukraine could have turned out similarly, had Moscow’s rulers not sought centralization (which backfired and resulted in generations of anti-Russian Ukrainian nationalism).

    Overall, Ukraine would do better with Poland than with Russia. And that is what its people want.

    More rehashed bullshit from you. That’s what you want. The most extreme of Ukrainian nationalists (Bandera et al) have been anti-Polish. Hence, the anti-Russian sentiment among them shouldn’t be confused with being pro-Polish.

    With more recent history in mind, show us a noticeable Ukrainian historical figure who proposed something like this with Poland:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/22052011-pavlo-skoropadsky-and-the-course-of-russian-ukrainian-relations-analysis/

    There’s a difference between seeking to be part of the EU than specifically joining up with Poland. As for the EU, polling showed (before the coup against Yanukovych) that Ukrainian public opinion was closely enough divided on whether to join the EU or the Russian involved Eurasian Customs Union.

    The so-called “generations of anti-Russian Ukrainian nationalism“, was greatly motivated by the Polish and Habsburg occupations of Ukraine, which promoted an anti-Russian Ukrainian identity, which proved limited. Mazepa lost, because most on the territory he represented opposed his move towards Sweden and its weaker Polish ally. During the Russian Civil War, the Galician Ukrainian Army en masse came under the command of the Russian Whites, who treated the former as a foreign force, albeit with the related historical tie to Rus. Compare that manner with how the Poles treated Petliura – making him pledge to give up all of Galicia. Petliura went along with that because he lacked support on the territory he sought to rule over.

    Between two world wars, Ukrainians under Polish rule noticeably opposed Poland. The Soviets blew a great opportunity to win them over thru heavy handed tactics, which in turn got meshed into the warped idea that the USSR benefited Russia at the expense of virtuous non-Russians like the Ukrainians -

  497. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor

    into a more or less efficient fighting machine, and destroyed the Wehrmacht.

    And without NCOs, even more remarkable.

  498. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    The White Ummah.

    It is an interesting concept. Hopefully they can get past the history of massive continent-wide wars – cause if it happens next time, it’s going to hurt really, really bad.

    But as you mentioned; nothing’s perfect, you can only strive for something better in cycles.

    Peace.

  499. @reiner Tor

    “The German Army is a machine. But a machine can be broken!” -Konstantin Rokossovsky

    The Wehrmacht was in many respects inferior to the armies of the Kaiserreich (where there technically was no German army–each constituent state had its own army and war ministry, though they all adopted Prussian standards and leadership). Some officers owed their position simply to being Nazis, excellent officers like Beck were dismissed for political reasons, and there was a lot of hasty training of junior officers and NCOs owing to its rapid expansion. It also was not properly equipped in many respects, whereas the German army of 1914 was superlatively equipped relative to its rivals (only being deficient in that the French 75 was a bit better than its German equivalent).

    Internal reports commissioned by the German army’s high command for instance showed that the infantry performance in 1939-1940 was inferior to what their fathers managed in 1914, in particular noting a lower level of aggression and individual initiative.

    That said the Wehrmacht was probably the better overall force in that the Kaiserreich had inadequate military discipline, and the Kaiserreich’s civilian leadership routinely sabotaged the men at the front. A German diplomat even got away with publishing an anti-German book during WWI somehow. Obviously no such problems in Nazi Germany.

    The fact that the Wehrmacht maintained its cohesion and discipline in 1944-1945 is particularly impressive. Credit here goes to Hans von Seeckt and Erich Raeder, who instituted extremely harsh military discipline as a result of the collapse of 1918. The Nazis and SS also deserve credit for imposing proper political discipline.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  500. Seraphim says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    @Balkanoid swine

    How would you expect the ‘Balkanoid swines’ to respect you and your ‘White’ Empire? It has all the chances to transform itself into an ‘Ummah’ which won’t be ‘White’ anymore. Beware what you are wishing for.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  501. @Seraphim

    Who cares? Why do we need the respect of trans-Danubian swine? The only notable accomplishment of Balkanoids is the creation of ajvar.

    Balkanoids are barely better than people from the Middle East.

    They do not deserve to be called white.

    The Greeks get an exemption in light of their history, and the Greek diaspora does well.

    But Romania, Albania, Bulgaria, etc…complete jokes. Though there are some really hot Bulgarian women.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @reiner Tor
  502. Yevardian says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Swedish is far easier on the ears than German.

    Do you know anything about the history of Romania from the 1870s to the 1930s? It was the most culturally advanced country in Eastern Europe. Americans aren’t white.

  503. Seraphim says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    They don’t respect you White trash anyway. Conchita Wurst!

  504. @Yevardian

    Do you know anything about the history of Romania from the 1870s to the 1930s? It was the most culturally advanced country in Eastern Europe.

    Wut?

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  505. DFH says:
    @AP

    I am curious why this aversion to traditional regionalism.

    Because he is a rootless American

  506. @Thorfinnsson

    For obvious reasons I hate Romanians (nothing personal; Romanians can be nice and smart and noble people, as exemplified by the iSteve commenter “Romanian”), but I think they are white. Yugoslavs (all of them), too. Unfortunately even Albanians. Their women can be hot.

    Anyway, here’s a nice song about Romania:

    Petty nationalism aside, I think we might exclude Muslims (so, Albanians, Bosnians), but we either exclude the Orthodox (as their own civilization), or include the whole Balkan.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Talha
  507. Seraphim says:
    @reiner Tor

    Ha, you are Hungarian! A Hungarian salute for you: Anyád picsája!

  508. Yevardian says:
    @reiner Tor

    I’m talking about the Kingdom period in Romania that lasted until the breakdown of the 30s. Caragiale, Mihail Sadoveanu, Lucian Blaga and especially Urmuz are all very enjoyable writers that transcend the provincial outlook of the literature of many small nations. You wouldn’t believe it now after Ceaușescu ruined it, but Bucharest used to be considered ‘the Paris of the East’ and kept up with Western Europe in terms of infrastructure. Romania avoided all the internal chaos that plagued the rest of the Balkans until the 30′s and was considered a quiet, stable country with a German monarch.

    Romania probably had a worse form of Communism than any other country in Europe except Albania, ironic because Romania was almost alone in the region in having almost no native Communist movement whatsoever. Hence an idiot Cobbler and his ‘master Chemist’ wife taking over the country after Dej. Practically the entire intellectual class emigrated or became anonymous, all the main figures ended up writing in French, including Grigore Cugler, Fundoianu, Voronca, Gerasim Luca, Ionescu, Cioran and Tristan Tzara, who invented Dada. Ceaușescu’s catastrophic abortion policy also meant thousands of unwanted children who often went to become maladjusted at ‘state orphanages’, rural poverty and an explosion of the gypsy population (Romania was the only eastern country stupid enough to attempt to assimilate them, subsidise them and give them state-rights which has left since given us an association of eternal infamy).
    But at thankfully Albania still exists to be considered the ultimate niggers of Europe.

    If you considered my statement a slight, don’t, I actually consider Hungary to be a central-European country which has nothing culturally in common with Eastern Europe and is only associated with it because of Communism. Though admittedly it seems like at least half of your cultural output came from Jews…

  509. Talha says:
    @reiner Tor

    we might exclude Muslims (so, Albanians, Bosnians)

    Now you’re talkin’! If you are Muslim, you aren’t welcome in the newly constituted Whitopian Empire – Whitekanda, if you will – (regardless of White credentials)…any less exclusionary policy would be very disappointing.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  510. @Yevardian

    I thought Romania had lower literacy rates pre-1914 than Russia, but maybe I was wrong.

    Romania was almost alone in the region in having almost no native Communist movement whatsoever

    What it had was ethnically Jewish and Hungarian. Though both were quickly purged by the 1950s.

    By the way the communist movement was pretty weak in Hungary before 1945 either. (It was actually banned, but even were it not banned, it wouldn’t have been big. Most leaders it had were ethnically Jewish, though there were ethnically German and Hungarian members and leaders as well.) The reason for this is that we had an indigenous communist government in 1919, and it was considered to be the absolute nadir of Hungarian history (at least in modern times).

    gypsy population (Romania was the only eastern country stupid enough to attempt to assimilate them, subsidise them and give them state-rights which has left since given us an association of eternal infamy).

    I have the vague impression that the Gypsy problem is bigger in Romania than Hungary, but I can assure you that it’s pretty bad in Hungary as well. (And there are crimes in Austria where six “Hungarian” children from the same family break into a warehouse, while the parents are waiting outside in a car, claiming not to have known what the children were up to… well, there were already some stolen goods in the trunk, but the parents claim they were not aware…) Under communism some of them worked in sectors like uranium mining (dangerous, but well-paid, so Gypsies liked it), though most had make-believe jobs in state enterprises. After the fall of communism even the previously working ones became pretty dysfunctional.

    If you considered my statement a slight

    No, I was seriously surprised, I had the image of very low literacy rates. The authors you mention – I heard the names of a few of them. If I’ll have time to read literature again, I’ll try some of them.

  511. @Talha

    To be honest, I don’t think it’s a central question. The Whitopian Empire (as you called it) is not around the corner, nor is it likely to come any time soon, so it’s a purely theoretical question. And I don’t think there are so many Albanians or Bosnians for it to be important anyway. They will be converted to Racial Bocialism anyway.

    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/1cee819a-7d5c-4cd0-93ad-03dfe585d443

    • Replies: @Talha
  512. Seraphim says:

    My friend,

    I do appreciate your response to the gratuitous insolence of reiner Tor, which after the revelation that he is Hungarian is understandable , but I am afraid that some parts of your presentation of Romania is a bit more ‘Urmuzian’ than real and may defeat the purpose. You won’t make a Hungarian to think of Romanians but in terms of ‘budos olah’. So, it is not worth the effort.

  513. Talha says:
    @reiner Tor

    I agree, there aren’t that many Bosnians or Albanians. I’m just saying; my wife is white and her best friends are an Afghan lady and one from India. And we are also friends with a Senegalese couple and have each other over for dinner. That sort of behavior (and considering non-Whites to be your equals in humanity) should be absolute grounds for Whitepostasy. There needs to be a creed that you guys have that is required for citizenship which states that one believes Whites are the superior race. Also the flag should be all White without any colors. Yes, I know that’s traditionally been used to symbolize surrender, but that should really piss you guys off – you need to turn that franchise around.

    Anything less would be very, very disappointing.

    Peace.

  514. @Talha

    my wife is white and her best friends are an Afghan lady and one from India. And we are also friends with a Senegalese couple and have each other over for dinner.

    Dude, you are behaving as if you believe Man was made in the image and likeness of God. If you don’t be careful, people might think you value the immortal soul more than an additional standard deviation of IQ.

    • Replies: @Talha
  515. iffen says:
    @Talha

    should be absolute grounds for Whitepostasy

    You will do better sticking with your Islamic studies rather that free lancing as a WN consultant. :)

    • Replies: @Talha
  516. Talha says:
    @iffen

    No, no – please help me to help you become a better White Nationalists. Whitekanda Forever!!!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  517. LondonBob says:

    Having looked in to the originator of the ‘Puritan’ meme I see why that odd looking Moldbug guy wishes to deflect attention from the Frankfurt School, Freud etc.

  518. Talha says:
    @The Big Red Scary

    I know man, it’s utterly shameless – when that Senagalese brother invited a bunch of us over recently, it included some Bosnians; they let their kids play with the Black kids!!!

    We truly are deplorable and hopeless…it’s too late for us – save yourselves!!!

    Peace.

  519. @Yevardian

    Do you know anything about the history of Romania from the 1870s to the 1930s? It was the most culturally advanced country in Eastern Europe.
    Talk about damning with faint praise.

    I’ve heard that Yorkshire is renowned for producing the best of all English cuisine, and that Mecklenburg produces the greatest comedians in all of Germany.

  520. @Yevardian

    Do you know anything about the history of Romania from the 1870s to the 1930s? It was the most culturally advanced country in Eastern Europe.

    Sure.

    And Yorkshire is renowned for producing the best of all English cuisine, and Mecklenburg is home to the greatest comedians in all of Germany.

    Moderation note: I would appreciate if someone could delete the duplicate posts

  521. @Yevardian

    Do you know anything about the history of Romania from the 1870s to the 1930s? It was the most culturally advanced country in Eastern Europe.
    Sure.

    And Yorkshire is renowned for producing the best of all English cuisine, and Mecklenburg is home to the greatest comedians in all of Germany.

  522. @Yevardian

    Though admittedly it seems like at least half of your cultural output came from Jews…

    I wanted to easily refute it, but it might be close to the truth.

    For example among musical interpreters it might be over half. I’m not totally knowledgeable here, but for example Ferenc Fricsay, Georg (György, George) Solti, the Fischer brothers, especially Iván (well, I can recommend Iván’s now almost complete Mahler cycle with the Budapest Festival Orchestra; I don’t listen to Ádám Fischer at all, so I don’t know), Annie Fischer (to my knowledge unrelated to the Fischer brothers), András Schiff (politically despicable, like the Fischers, though unlike them I think he’s even pro-Palestinian), probably there are others. But among composers it’s less. Liszt was basically German (Austrian) from the westernmost part of the Kingdom of Hungary (today Austria), but then Bartók definitely Hungarian, as was Kodály (not a very important composer), while Erkel was ethnically German (only important as the composer of our national anthem). Then there are Kurtág and Ligeti, both Jewish, but I don’t much listen to them. You probably don’t lose much if you only check out Liszt and Bartók.

    Among writers there are a great many of them, especially among the ones with less provincial works, like Örkény (only half-Jewish on the side of the mother) or Kertész (Hungarian nationalists will despise him, but I think he’s not bad at all; I’m not sure if he deserved the Nobel Prize, but it’s just a title anyway), but there are some others (like Márai or Ottlik etc.), so it could be close to half. Even among the lesser ones, Rejtő is the greatest author of pulp fiction, or I like Antal Szerb for example (though I wouldn’t rank him among the greatest or anything). Among poets it’s much smaller, but still substantial. The consolation here is that the greatest poet (Attila József) was gentile, or the finest line in Hungarian poetry (I think: “Most tél van és csend és hó és halál.”) also comes from a gentile poet. Of course our national poet Petőfi (he was of Slovak blood, by the way) was also gentile.

    Then I don’t think any of our painters are Jewish, though not many great Hungarian painters. I’m kinda blind to paintings anyway, so I can give you a few names learned at school, but it’s pointless anyway. Among architects, I think also gentiles predominate.

    Anyway, what mostly annoys me is when Hungarian nationalists start talking about our many Nobel Prizes (counting, of course, anyone with even a tangential connection to Hungary), when most of those counted are Ashkenazi Jews who went to high school in Hungary, but then finished university and worked abroad. Why count them? It’s like having a Somali win an Olympic medal for you.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @The Big Red Scary
  523. iffen says:
    @reiner Tor

    Why count them?

    So, it’s just a simple blood thing for you. What if they identify as and represent themselves as Hungarian? What about half and quarter breeds?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @reiner Tor
  524. iffen says:
    @Talha

    help me to help you become a better White Nationalists

    I’m not and don’t want to be one. I just thought that I would give you advice on the subject since you were giving “them” advice.

    • Replies: @Talha
  525. AP says:
    @Jon0815

    Afghanistan had mountainous terrain ideal for guerilla warfare

    But also fewer trees and urban areas to provide cover.

    Afghan guerillas were Muslim fanatics eager to martyr themselves,

    Correct. However they are also dumber.

    Soviet conscripts were inferior in quality to the mixed conscript/professional force Russia has today

    Is the current Russian military really better than that of the USSR at the height of its power in the late 70s?

    modern drone technology reduces the need for dangerous patrols

    Ukes would also have drones, and drones are less useful in forested or urban areas.

    Also, in Ukraine, Russia could recruit a sizable force of pro-Russian Ukrainians to bear some of the casualty burden (starting with the 40,000-strong force already existing in the DLNR)

    Most of these signed up because it’s the few ways of earning a living in the DLNR. Many of the rest did so to keep Kiev out. Volunteering to be killed in the streets of Kiev to establish Russian rule there is a very different situation. I doubt more than 10,000 of the 40,000 would be willing to do that.

    And the sectarian conflict made Iraq more deadly for US troops, not less, since it meant that they had to leave their secure bases to protect civilian neighborhoods from attack.

    Sectarian conflict in Iraq meant that Iraqis spent a lot of time killing one another rather than focusing their efforts on killing the occupiers.

    • Replies: @Jon0815
  526. @iffen

    You will see how nuts it is once you see the list. Just wait til later when I have some time.

  527. Talha says:
    @iffen

    I’m not and don’t want to be one.

    I know, bro – I was joking with you. But in all honesty, I do support White Nationalism – if there was a vote tomorrow to allow 5-6 states to split off from the US as an ethno-state, I would vote for it – in a heartbeat:

    I used to live in Merced county, in an apartment building surrounded by trailer parks where my mom (with her Masters degree in chemistry from Lahore) used to work at a local fruit-canning factory (only God can reward her for all the sacrifices she made for her undeserving sons). I’ve got stories from growing up there. I have no delusions about the immigration that could be expected into that new nation. If certain Whites don’t want me around them, I am 100% supportive of them bringing distance between us.

    Furthermore, as a strategic move, I would love for Islam to be the one excluded religion in that White ethno-state as something that is subversive and antithetical to the core principles of such state – please, please, please make that happen folks.

    Also, I’m looking forward to seeing how Whitekanda’s national ice hockey team performs at the Olympics.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Anon
  528. @reiner Tor

    It’s like having a Somali win an Olympic medal for you.

    I’ve told you a million times not to exaggerate!

    The von Neumann family had lived for many generations in Hungary, spoke the language natively,
    and von Neumann himself even converted to Catholicism before marriage. If history had been kinder, many of these “Martians” might have eventually interbred with gentiles from Budapest. At least von Neumann’s daughter did so in America:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_von_Neumann_Whitman

    I don’t see any shame in considering von Neumann to be effectively Hungarian, any more than considering Lev Landau to be effectively Russian.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  529. iffen says:
    @Talha

    But in all honesty, I do support White Nationalism

    I don’t, and I don’t think you should either. It is a dead-end for whites and for the USA.

    I do support is the “right” of WNs to express their political beliefs. If a black can go black, black, blackety black 24/7 then any white should be able to do the same for the white race.

    I would love for Islam to be the one excluded religion

    I think we need an immigration hiatus for all immigrants, not just Muslims.

    • Replies: @Talha
  530. Talha says:
    @iffen

    It is a dead-end for whites and for the USA.

    Likely, but I support at least letting them try. Not for the whole US, but for a portion of it – why not? Maybe it’ll be a complete failure – then we’ll all know; otherwise they’ll keep on talking about how great Whitekanda can be. And if it fails, they’ll just want to join up again. If it succeeds; then good for them, we’ll buy all the cool stuff they make and they can colonize Mars and…

    I don’t mind Whites expressing a healthy affinity for their heritage and history and accomplishments – if everyone else is able to, why not them?

    I think we need an immigration hiatus for all immigrants, not just Muslims.

    Sure, that’s fine, but that’s not what I was getting at.

    Peace.

  531. @Yevardian

    Romania avoided all the internal chaos that plagued the rest of the Balkans until the 30′s

    I don’t know, wasn’t there are peasants’ uprising in 1907 which was brutally crushed, with thousands of dead (young Antonescu served with “distinction” there iirc)? That sounds pretty dysfunctional to me.

  532. songbird says:
    @Yevardian

    I rather like to hear German, especially spoken by good-looking young women. The fricatives especially. German has a sort of strength to it that makes it euphonious. (sort of to my mind like Japanese, when compared to Chinese). I prefer it to the Romance languages – it has a pleasing contrast to them.

  533. AP says:
    @Yevardian

    Do you know anything about the history of Romania from the 1870s to the 1930s? It was the most culturally advanced country in Eastern Europe

    Romania is by far the smartest and most civilized place in the Balkans, but that’s a low bar to clear.

    Romanian literacy rate in 1930:

    The green (literate) parts are those settled by Saxons and Hungarians who got stuck in Romania.

    In terms of per capita income, Romania in 1890 was slightly poorer than Galician Ukraine (tied with Croatian Dalmatia as the poorest part of Austria at the time) but a lot richer than Serbia, Greece, Bulgaria and even Russia. I don’t have later data for all those places but by 1913 Russia had almost caught up to Romania and was on track to surpass it soon. Romania was always poorer and less literate than Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Hungary.

    :::::::::::

    Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Albania and (before Communism set Romania back, Greece) were always well behind Romania but when you look outside the Balkans, Romania wasn’t the best in Eastern Europe.

  534. songbird says:
    @Talha

    If the anti-white coalition likes diversity so much, how come you aren’t campaigning feverishly to diversify each other’s home nations, and inviting millions of whites in to boot? Why all this endless talk in white countries and no action on the homefront?

    Surely, the Muslim world would be much improved by inviting in millions of sub-Saharan brothers and sisters, like your Senegalese friends? Surely, there shouldn’t be Sunni countries and Shiite countries, but each one should be a mix like Iraq? And Jews and Hindus should be able to rubberneck at the Kaabba, or at the very least walk in Mecca. BTW, are not Hindu nationalists your equals in humanity? Why should they not be permitted to rule benignly and wisely over Pakistan and Bangladesh?

    I think you should say no more until you catch up to us in diversity, but campaign vociferously and tirelessly to diversify the Muslim world until then. And then double our level of diversity in your own countries, so you will be more advanced than us and can show us prejudiced whites the way forward. If you believe it, put your money where your mouth is. Show us, friend!

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @PP
    , @Talha
  535. @Talha

    I’m not into 1488 LARPing, and I doubt the Magyar Miracle is either.

    I have non-white friends as well, including people from foreign countries who don’t live in America.

    We can start by ending non-white immigration other than diplomats, some intra-company executive transfers, etc.

    In terms of the non-whites already resident in our lands, obviously it depends on the group one is talking about. Some groups will need to be removed, but others can be accommodated under solutions you likely understand quite well owing to your own background.

    Mohammedanism in our countries is particularly offensive owing to history, but if I am to be objective I have to admit that not all Mohammedans are problematic. Iranians are generally fine (though corrupt and crooked in trade), as are the higher classes of Pakistan.

    Your wife and her sister are of course traitors, but I don’t really expect much out of women to begin with so whatever. Women have been doing this since the Sabine women become Roman…and almost certainly for a long time before that. If anything it’s our fault as white, Christian men for tolerating this.

    • Replies: @PP
    , @Talha
  536. @songbird

    And Jews and Hindus should be able to rubberneck at the Kaabba, or at the very least walk in Mecca. BTW, are not Hindu nationalists your equals in humanity

    Talha believes all of mankind should become Muslims, the continued existence of Jews and Hindus doesn’t fit into his world view.
    It’s really not surprising he’s chiding us for racism, at least in theory Islam is very egalitarian and anti-nationalist after all. A bit like Marxism-Leninism (only much worse since it’s unfalsifiable, and people still believe in it despite the failure of most Islamic societies).

    • Replies: @PP
    , @Talha
  537. PP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Iranians are generally fine (though corrupt and crooked in trade), as are the higher classes of Pakistan.

    Are they any less pedophiliac than the lower and middle class ones?

    If anything it’s our fault as white, Christian men for tolerating this.

    In all fairness there are very many White fags. I am starting to wonder if it is not due to a genetic defect of Whites. East Asians don’t see to me nearly as faggish (although they could be excused, owing to their micro-penises).

  538. PP says:
    @songbird

    If you believe it, put your money where your mouth is. Show us, friend!

    It is unrealistic to expect any sort of intellectual honesty from an islamic streetshitter (the guys is from Lahore) who sleeps with a coal burner.

  539. PP says:
    @German_reader

    despite the failure of most Islamic societies

    It depends on your metric.

    For example regarding pedophilia they rank at the top.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  540. Talha says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I have non-white friends as well

    Cool.

    We can start by ending non-white immigration

    Sure, no problems there; every nation has a right to control its borders as it sees fit.

    but if I am to be objective I have to admit that not all Mohammedans are problematic

    I appreciate that. And if I’m to be objective, I have to admit plenty of Muslims are extremely problematic and should not be in the West. It is better for you and for them that they are removed. If they cannot control themselves, they will ruin their own souls if they are not in a society that restricts their choices. You will be doing them a huge favor.

    If anything it’s our fault as white, Christian men for tolerating this.

    Big time! Though my wife and her sister weren’t Christians really. You know how irreligious Swedes are, right? And they grew up in Berkeley – so they had very little religion in their life to begin with. Before they converted, they weren’t halal to us – but once they converted, then they were no longer halal to you:
    “O you who believe! When believing women come to you as emigrants, examine them, Allah knows best as to their faith, then if you ascertain that they are true believers, send them not back to the disbelievers, they are not lawful (halal) for the disbelievers nor are the disbelievers lawful (halal) for them…” (60:10)

    We would never let non-Muslims near our women – approaching Muslim women for marriage is grounds for the rescinding the dhimmah pact. The marriage is null and void and we will legally interdict it.

    I’ve had a talk with my daughter about this and she knows that she is not going to be marrying a non-Muslim man. I suggest you learn some things from us; have a talk with your daughters making it clear that only Christian suitors will be entertained and move to make amendments to the law that allow fathers to petition the courts to nullify the marriages of their daughters if they did so without their father’s consent.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @PP
    , @Thorfinnsson
  541. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    the continued existence of Jews and Hindus doesn’t fit into his world view.

    Of course it does – they’re just fine. We have rules for them in our societies and in dealing with them in international relations.

    Peace.

    Note: Once the Son of Mary (pbuh) comes back, all bets are off and he will be calling the shots. Just being real with you.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  542. PP says:
    @Talha

    I’ve had a talk with my daughter about this and she knows that she is not going to be marrying a non-Muslim man.

    She will most likely tell you to go fuck yourself once she discovers how cool it is to be a coalburning whore like most American gals of her age. Her mother gave her a good example of that, by the way.

    • Replies: @Talha
  543. Talha says:
    @songbird

    the anti-white coalition

    Talk to them, bro – I’ve never been anti-White. My wife is White and so are my in-laws. My brothers in faith are White and some of the scholars I have taken classes under were White.

    inviting millions of whites in to boot?

    You guys are welcome any time. Did you know Morocco is one of the top retirement destinations for elderly French people? Do you know how many thousands of Albanians and Bosnians fled into Muslim lands as the Ottoman Empire was collapsing? The Circassians?

    like your Senegalese friends?

    Uh – Senegal is a Muslim country.

    And Jews and Hindus should be able to rubberneck at the Kaabba, or at the very least walk in Mecca.

    Sure, according to the school I follow – the Hanafi – non-Muslims are allowed to visit the mosques of Madinah and Makkah. We’re not in charge right now though, you can thank the British for that one.

    Why should they not be permitted to rule benignly and wisely over Pakistan and Bangladesh?

    Why would we let non-Muslims be in charge of Muslim nations? It makes no sense. We never claimed to be secular. Pakistan is an Islamic Republic by definition. Bangladesh’s official state religion is Islam:

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/03/bangladesh-court-upholds-islam-religion-state-160328112919301.html

    It’d be kind of silly to have a Jew running it, right?

    And yet it has already had a Hindu Supreme Court Chief Justice, Hon. Rana Bhagwandas. Now, we don’t worry about that since all of the rulings of the secular Supreme Court need to be reviewed for compliance by the Federal Shariah Court:

    http://www.federalshariatcourt.gov.pk/Jurs.html

    Feel free to turn your countries into Christian nations so you can do the same. I won’t complain; it’ll hopefully get rid of the poz nonsense and blasphemy like this (this stuff pisses me off, why don’t you do something about it):

    http://www.thecsph.org/center-stage-sexual-aid-jackhammer-jesus/

    I think you should say no more until you catch up to us in diversity

    You seem to think I’m an SJW Muslim that advocates open-borders. I’m not, I’ve already stated plenty of times that every country has a right to set the immigration policies it deems beneficial. If Germans decide only to let in female models from Costa Rica with specific chest and hip ratios, it’s their prerogative.

    Plus, I stated plenty of times; I’m on your side if you want a White ethno-state. Make it happen – you have my vote! Just make sure to exclude Muslims, it’s the only thing I ask.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @songbird
  544. @Talha

    We have rules for them in our societies

    Yes, we know how that works out, how very generous of you.

    Once the Son of Mary (pbuh) comes back, all bets are off and he will be calling the shots

    Threatening me with eternal damnation, how original.
    If Christ (the son of God, not the son of Mary) ever returns, it will probably be pretty bad for me, but I don’t think He’ll look kindly on your kind either.

    • Replies: @Talha
  545. Talha says:
    @PP

    If you say so. I have a great relationship with my daughter – she is totally down with the fact that; 1) any man that tries to get with her, must come through me and be serious about marriage and 2) I have a 50% share in the decision as to who she marries.

    Why? Because I’m her father and God said I have these rights.

    You guys really should teach your girls religion and invest serious time into it. Don’t let the television raise them; they are the mothers of your future generations.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @PP
  546. Seraphim says:

    Note: Once the Son of God Jesus Christ comes back “the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever”.
    For sure the ‘false prophet’ stands for all false prophets: Mahomed or Isa the ‘Son of Mary’.

  547. PP says:
    @Talha

    Who told you that my daughters were raised by TV? You are such a moronic poseur.

    In fact I think you are even totally LARPing, you don’t have a white wife, although you are sure dreaming of having one. Do you even have a wife? Like most Pakis you are certainly more into fucking 12-year old boys.

    Why? Because I’m her father and God said I have these rights.

    Yeah sure — how did he get your phone number by the way? Next time you speak with him, please tell him to ring me up, I have a few things to ask him.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  548. Jon0815 says:
    @AP

    Is the current Russian military really better than that of the USSR at the height of its power in the late 70s?

    Qualitatively, it’s very likely. Professional armies are generally better trained, motivated, and smarter than conscript ones, and the current Russian army is much more of a professional force than the Soviet army was.

    Sectarian conflict in Iraq meant that Iraqis spent a lot of time killing one another rather than focusing their efforts on killing the occupiers.

    Most of the sectarian violence wasn’t insurgents killing other insurgents, it was insurgents killing civilians. Which is relatively easy: The time and effort involved in killing 20 civilians via Sunni suicide bomber or Shia death squad, was less than that required to kill a single US soldier. And to the extent that this took some of the immediate focus off killing US occupiers, that was much more than outweighed by the enormous benefit of forcing them to to leave their bases in an effort to stop the slaughter, thereby making themselves vulnerable to IEDs that otherwise would have been useless. It’s not a coincidence that US casualties and casualties from sectarian violence, rose and fell at the same time.

  549. Talha says:
    @PP

    Oh ok – so you think I’m a taqiyyah Muzzie. That’s cool – why waste your time with me? Also, why didn’t you say I was sleeping with a goat, who is also my first cousin. C’mon man, up your game!

    Are you angry because your daughter is with a man you don’t approve of? That’s ok – there’s a lot of fathers I’ve met in that situation.

    • Replies: @Anon
  550. @Talha

    Christian and white are somewhat equivalent, though owing to the past five centuries there are now very many non-whites professing Christianity. Point being whites who profess not to be Christian are in fact Christian, at least by heritage.

    And Swedes are in fact religious fanatics. It’s merely that they’ve replaced their previous militant Lutheranism with the heresy known as liberalism, which they are equally fanatical about.

    I tend to agree that the way Islam handles women, marriage, family, etc. is better than what we are doing today. Not to say that it is flawless (cousin marriage, those hideous tents, middle age obesity, acid attacks, etc.).

    I’m not one to get worked up about the alleged horrors of Sharia and lack of “respect” for women in the Islamic world. Quite the contrary, we lost our way when we “freed” our women. This was about as much a gift to our women as it is to “free” a labrador retriever two hundred miles from home on a country road.

    I don’t have many problems with Islam qua Islam other than aesthetics, divorce, financial interest, and polygamy. Rather it’s simply a matter of identity. “Europe” only came into being as a result of the Islamic conquest.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Talha
  551. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    how very generous of you.

    Can be – depending on where one is. Do you have Jews in Germany dancing with pictures of Merkel like they do with the King of Morocco? Thought so?

    Threatening me

    Bro, I’m a 5’ 6” Paki, I can’t threaten anyone. I’m just telling you what has been told to us; do with the information what you wish.

    I don’t think He’ll look kindly on your kind either.

    Well, we’ve been told to follow his command and be under his flag, so hopefully he’ll find us as good followers.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  552. PP says:

    why waste your time with me?

    That’s not so much with you — but it is more to expose you to others for the kind of hypocritical POS that you are, living in a Western country, a somewhat acceptable place to live precisely because it was not built by degenerate adepts of mohammed-the-pedophile (swine crap be on him), and yet LARPing with your islamic delusions.

    What do you expect to achieve here, if not making people hate you guys even more? It is amazing how good you guys are at that.

    • Replies: @Talha
  553. @Thorfinnsson

    I’m not one to get worked up about the alleged horrors of Sharia

    I disagree with you about women, but other reasons are more important for rejecting Sharia than its alleged misogyny. As I understand it, in the kind of society Talha and people like him would regard as ideal, there would be nothing but Islamic law, an all-encompassing set of rules for society, supposedly set down by God. That’s completely unlike the situation in Christian societies (at least those that I know of) which, despite the undoubted importance of canon law, always had secular laws as well. To come back to your statement about identity, sharia is as un-European as it gets.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Talha
  554. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    The suicide bombers in Indonesia were all vertically challenged people. One of them was a ‘Little kid’.
    And ‘Despite their apparent allegiance to IS, the church-bombing family were not returnees from Syria, police said Monday, correcting their earlier statements’. They were members of the “peaceful ‘Ummah’” that has nothing to do with the Saudis! BTW there were also two little girls. They had to obey the father. “If a family believed in traditional roles, the father has the power, so everyone has to obey”, it was explained to us.

    • Replies: @Talha
  555. @German_reader

    I’m not a Mohammedan nor do I wish to embrace Mohammedanism. I’m simply noting that I don’t have a fundamental problem with their way of doing things or find their way of doing things fundamentally wrong (there are things I could quibble about of course, and brought up a few).

    A lot of people on our team like to find excuses to attack Islam itself, which doubtless has various problems, but those problems aren’t really our concern–and are usually exaggerated. In fact I can found a lot of common ground with Mohammedans, though for now the priority is to remove them from the West and thus there is no point in doing so.

    And yes, our traditional system was to have both ecclesiastical and secular law. In the past two or three centuries we’ve experimented with dispensing with the lords spiritual, with mixed results.

    Point being I don’t object much to how Islamic societies wish to govern themselves and thus don’t get worked up about Sharia panic. Probably they should allow lending money at interest, and while it’s apparently haram I rather like nice paintings. But that’s for them to decide. I don’t want to live under Sharia for the simple reason that I am not one of them.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @PP
  556. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    Please don’t put words in my mouth.

    No, the society I envision is one where non-Muslims have their own parallel legal system to apply on their own communities like they did in the past. And their own cantons/regions with semi-autonomy. We don’t care to clog up our Shariah courts with you guys – as Prof. Jonathan AC Brown has written, our scholars of the past did not want non-Muslims gumming up our works. Feel free to do as you please in your communities (minus blasphemy, we will shut that crap down); drink, fornicate, be merry…

    Furthermore, the vast majority of legal cases are handled through secular courts even in a Muslim society. Our ulema have waaaay better things to do than preside over traffic violations and elevator building permits or what color fire hydrants should be.

    Peace.

  557. Talha says:
    @Seraphim

    Yeah families that pledge themselves to Daesh are not good news. Wow, they are starting to hit even newer lows by involving their kids in suicide bombings! Dang man, I thought they had hit rock bottom, but I guess not.

    Pretty scary stuff.

    Peace.

  558. @Talha

    No, the society I envision is one where non-Muslims have their own parallel legal system to apply on their own communities like they did in the past.

    Well yes, but what’s in the case of lawsuits involving Muslims and non-Muslims? Judged according to Islamic law I’d assume.
    And that you’d allow marginal, tolerated communities their own law doesn’t affect my central argument.

    • Replies: @Talha
  559. songbird says:
    @Talha

    Talha, if you vote D, then you are anti-white. I don’t mean to say that you actually have an animus – most don’t.

    Nobody ever said that Moroccans would spit on tourist dollars, or the dollars of barren pensioners, but it is plain they would not tolerate Europeans having children there in any numbers sufficient to threaten their own. The last time that happened, they diced the women and children into little bits. Moroccan boys literally stabbed their French friends to death, just because they weren’t Moroccan. And all that happened when their numbers were increasing and the made up a higher percentage of the population than the English currently do in England.

    I’m afraid so far, Muslims, whether SJW or not, have very much been the tools of blasphemers. Turks agitate to remove the crosses from schoolrooms. Christmas markets are renamed “winter markets.” Any and all public mention of Christianity is under continuous attack, and with it all the old social and ethical standards. Can evangelists save us? Well, try taking out a Bible in public in Flint, or for that matter parts of Paris.

    BTW, I know Senegal is a Muslim country. I was counting on your sense of Muslim universalism to welcome them and the Nigerian Muslims into the non-sub-Saharan Muslim world – what we prejudiced Westerners generally think of as being separate – where they might possibly benefit a little if the greater standard of living and life expectancy was averaged a little between your people and theirs.

    Ireland is a Christian nation. It explicitly says so in the Irish Constitution, but that hasn’t stopped the atheists and members of a certain tribe from smuggling in their tools of destruction. For their part, the Muslims living in Ireland, being settled there without the consent of the Irish people, and explicitly against it in local cases when they have been permitted to vote, seem to be oddly ignorant of the Irish Constitution.

    • Replies: @Talha
  560. Talha says:
    @PP

    to expose you to others for the kind of hypocritical POS that you are

    Uh huh…get in line Mr All-of-26-posts-history.

    What do you expect to achieve here

    We’re here to spread the religion; I thought I was fairly clear on that…and eat your children bwaaaahahahaha!

    Look chief, I’m a law abiding citizen, my teachers have taught us we have to obey the canon of the land we reside in. If you want me out, fine. I get it, you guys are apprehensive about us being here. I laid out a game plan for you guys; start working on changing the laws so you can strip me of citizenship and revoke my right of residency. When I receive the official federal letter in the mail telling me to vacate; I will plan accordingly and move out. Why are wasting time with me? Start making phone calls!!!

    • Replies: @PP
  561. @Thorfinnsson

    A lot of people on our team like to find excuses to attack Islam itself, which doubtless has various problems, but those problems aren’t really our concern

    Unfortunately it it our problem since there are ever increasing numbers of Muslims in our societies. At least in Europe creeping (or maybe not so creeping anymore) Islamization is definitely an issue.
    I agree of course that it would be pointless and counter-productive to go on a crusade for “reforming” the Islamic world…the only interest I have in Islamic societies is stopping immigration from them (and maybe keeping them from acquiring nukes which would be an undesirable development).

    In fact I can found a lot of common ground with Mohammedans

    I can’t tbh.

  562. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    lawsuits involving Muslims and non-Muslims?

    Could be secular court, could be Shariah – all depends on circumstance.

    And that you’d allow marginal, tolerated communities their own law doesn’t affect my central argument.

    I feel it does; your statement was too absolutist and thus very inaccurate. I’m just saying; allow us the courtesy to speak for ourselves. We’ve already established that I’m quite open and honest about this stuff.

    I’m all for very expansive allowances for non-Muslim minorities; as much as we can afford them. I don’t care what you guys do in your communities; remember, even the Mughals never shut down the institution of sati in India as long as the widow was doing it voluntarily. It was busybody Brits who stopped it.

    Peace.

  563. PP says:
    @Talha

    Unlike you I do not live in the USA and therefore your plan has no relevance for me.

    But yes indeed, in my own country I am quite involved in efforts to have your ilk removed. The reality is that, unlike what you are claiming here, I still have to find one of these degenerates willing to leave peacefully. The reason is quite simple to understand: for them it would mean being dumped from a 4-star hotel into a Lahore slum like the one in which your mother got her degree (LOL).

    Regarding your stated goal of “spreading the religion” (of mohamed the 9-year-old-girl-fucker), I see with great pleasure that you are acting more as a repulsive than anything else. In fact I am now thinking that this Talha internet persona is so repulsive that it must be a Jew troll.

    • Replies: @Talha
  564. Talha says:
    @songbird

    if you vote D, then you are anti-white

    Never have – the only person I ever voted for was Ron Paul.

    The last time that happened, they diced the women and children into little bits. Moroccan boys literally stabbed their French friends to death, just because they weren’t Moroccan.

    OK – I’ve never heard of this. Not saying it didn’t happen. If it did happen; then this is a clear violation of sacred law – we can’t willy-nilly go stab happy on people because “muh pogrom”. Those who do these things will be held to account before God and have no excuse. If a non-Muslim in Muslim lands violates the covenant, we have legal means to deal with the problem. Our scholars do not condone vigilante justice.

    Any and all public mention of Christianity is under continuous attack, and with it all the old social and ethical standards.

    Please don’t put that blame on us – that is completely inane. You killed Christianity and you know it; we are simply dealing with a walking carcass. Please don’t put the blame at our feet. If the Turks are agitating for this and that – they are doing so through the courts. Why can’t your courts stop them? Because you killed Christianity.

    but that hasn’t stopped the atheists and members of a certain tribe from smuggling in their tools of destruction

    Get with the atheists and the tribe then. But you can’t – why? Because you killed Christianity.

    Do not blame others for the mess that you have made for yourselves; I don’t accept that nonsense from Muslims and I certainly won’t accept it from you guys.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @songbird
  565. PP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    You appear to be an interesting fellow. I like the tone of your posts. That said, I think you are being misguided here:

    In fact I can found a lot of common ground with Mohammedans,

    See, the islamic world is all smoke and mirrors, and it’s even more hypocritical than a yankee clergyman. It is on par with Rabbinic Talmudism (a.k.a. “Judaism” — a misnomer as the religion of Juda has disappeared almost 2000 years ago) in this regard.

    For example, regarding their claims of purity and chastity, do you know that a very profitable business in the islamic world is that of hymen reconstruction? See, this is because they want to marry a “virgin”. This is also why buttsex is so prevalent — and not only between men and women — amongst the islamics.

    I don’t think really that there is much common ground to be found with these animals.

    However regarding the removal plan — I am 100% with you. We’re working on it. It won’t be pretty as these degenerates like it very much here.

    That said I think “Talha” is a Jew troll.

  566. Talha says:
    @PP

    But yes indeed, in my own country I am quite involved in efforts to have your ilk removed.

    Best of luck to you.

    I see with great pleasure that you are acting more as a repulsive than anything else.

    Why don’t you tell me how you really feel? Drop some more F-bombs while you’re at it.

    In fact I am now thinking that this Talha internet persona is so repulsive that it must be a Jew troll.

    Yes,make my day – blame the Jews.

  567. why are you guys ganging up on Talha? We’re all friends here. Except for me an utu.

    • Replies: @PP
    , @Talha
  568. Seraphim says:
    @Talha

    Talha’s candor must be appreciated. He makes clear to us that “the society he envisions is one where non-Muslims have their own parallel legal system to apply on their own communities like they did in the past” would come after the total Muslim conquest and submission of the ‘kafirs’ who must worship Mahomed. Attention, if they don’t “we will shut that crap down”. In cages?

    • Replies: @Talha
  569. PP says:
    @Greasy William

    Except for me an utu.

    What’s wrong with you guys then? Excuse me but I am new.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  570. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I used to think that letting various parts of the US secede or run themselves as “experiments” would be a good idea, but with maturity I have come to think that this would be a really bad idea. There is a lot of land in Africa that might be a better bet though the locals might be problematic even if paid generously. Perhaps if the WNs learned Mandarin the PRC would settle them in Sinkiang?

    There is one exception to my general rule, and that is that I am somewhat sympathetic to the idea that black Americans lose out to white and other Americans in fair competition for high-status jobs, and this negatively affects the black culture and breeds resentment. So it might be a good idea to set apart a small area (Atlanta, say), necessarily in a very conservative area (or the whole thing would go bad very quickly), where policy would ensure a heavily black professional class. I first got this idea from a liberal Trump-paranoiac article suggesting building a wall around Atlanta or some such thing.

    • Replies: @PP
  571. @Thorfinnsson

    A German diplomat even got away with publishing an anti-German book during WWI somehow

    Who was that? It sounds like a rather odd thing to do, considering not just his nationality but also his profession.

  572. PP says:
    @Anon

    policy would ensure a heavily black professional class

    Yeah! Fast track to Haiti-zation.

    • Replies: @Anon
  573. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I haven’t read the full discussion; based on my past experience it’s likely you didn’t start it, but can we please keep each other’s children out of silly internet fights?

    • Replies: @Talha
  574. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @PP

    Or a fast track to the DR, which is not first world but not Haiti either.

  575. @Yevardian

    In my opinion it depends on the accent. People from the former DDR/Prussian regions tend to have a harsher type of accent that I am not that favourable to but I have heard people from Bavaria and they seem to have a pleasant accent.

  576. @PP

    Greasy is a Jewish extremist (he claims to be involved with something called the “True Torah movement” whose goal it is to turn Israel into a religious state and crush secularism – I’m not entirely sure though if that group really exists or if GW is just making it up). He also claims he’s hoping for a general Mideast war to finish off Iranians and Syrians (he also says he hates Mexicans, but that seems to be unrelated to Judaism or Israel).
    Utu has recently expressed his hope for a nuclear strike against Israel, killing all its Jewish inhabitants (and presumably non-Jewish ones as well, as collateral damage).
    Obviously those views aren’t exactly compatible.

    • Replies: @Greasy William
  577. Talha says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Point being whites who profess not to be Christian are in fact Christian, at least by heritage.

    Hmmm – OK. Is that normative doctrine? Because they wouldn’t be considered official People of the Book just by heritage with us.

    And Swedes are in fact religious fanatics.

    Interesting take.

    cousin marriage

    Yeah – waaay too overdone – should not reach more than 10-15% in any given people. This is something we could learn from your culture. I know many Muslims in the US – barely any are into cousin marriage. Though I have heard parts of Europe are different.

    It is interesting because, as far as the schools of jurisprudence are concerned; they are either silent on the matter or encourage marriage that is not done with close relations.

    those hideous tents

    My teachers recommend modest clothing such as this for people living in the West:

    https://shukronline.com/women/womens-tunics-and-tops.html

    middle age obesity

    C’mon man – are you serious?! I live in the Midwest; our aunties have nothing on those people!

    acid attacks

    Haram – ask any scholar.

    Quite the contrary, we lost our way when we “freed” our women.

    Well, there were some things that were weird like the husband automatically owning the property of the wife and such, but it seems you swung things way too far in the other direction; at least from our perspective. A healthy level of patriarchy is, well…healthy.

    “Europe” only came into being as a result of the Islamic conquest.

    Bam! A man who knows his history. Damn right – you guys owe us one!

    Peace.

  578. Yevardian says:
    @Talha

    I simply can’t comprehend how any intelligent person could seriously believe in Islam. In your own holy book and Hadith it’s quite clearly shown that Mohammad was a pedophile, war-mongerer, illiterate, liar and all-round scumbag.

    The “Islamic Golden Age” of peace and prosperity commenced with all your ‘rightly guided caliphs’ getting murdered, that is, if they even existed. I have nothing against ignorant peasants or workmen looking up to Mullahs since religion as a natural impulse and that was the culture they were born into, but you should really know better. Muslims go off and murder scores of random people precisely because they take their faith seriously and follow the dictates to the letter, Muslim terrorism disproportionately comes from the educated and well-off. I’ve known plenty of Iranians and Turks who’ve explained your whole “I’m just a peaceful Muslim who wants to assimilate” shebang. A lot of Turks fell for that and now their country is ruined.

    You’ve been polite and sometimes your posts have interesting information, but don’t play this passive-aggressive nonsense. Muslims are peaceful, just don’t insult them or they might kill you.

    • Replies: @Talha
  579. songbird says:
    @Talha

    Never have – the only person I ever voted for was Ron Paul.

    Well, I am surprised. Unfortunately, a guy like him can’t ever win because you are a rare fish, my friend. Very few non-whites would ever vote anything but D in the US, let alone libertarian, so a 3rd party candidate like Ross Perot who got 19% of the popular vote is way past impossible now.

    Because you killed Christianity.

    Not me personally, and not my family. And, TBH, your folks did help an awful lot. I am not kidding. I was once in church – not just in a church – in church during the service – and the priest introduced an imam. The imam proceeded to tell us that he believed in Jesus too – only he wasn’t quite the same guy. He was there because of 9/11. And that wasn’t a Unitarian Church – it was a Catholic Church. The Universal Church, if you will.

    My folks went to church pretty solidly for over 1500 years. They held to their faith when their churches were burnt down and their priests hunted down and murdered. They went to church when they had to meet outside by the old pagan monuments. They went into churches built of dirt when their own meager income was taxed to pay for pay for the upkeep of empty, stone monarchic-based ones. They did this even though it caused them to be heavily discriminated against. For a long time, banned from trades, from politics or effectively from owning land. My family is certainly not to blame.

    How is it that you can blame the English for the House of Saud? What did they have to do with it? It was an internal power struggle, and the Saudis won. Even if the Brits put them in place – and they didn’t – that seems a long time ago. Surely, it is Muslims as a group that are responsible. Besides which, even if they were reformers, what chance would they have in Arabia? For instance, for all I know, Salman does not think marriage between first cousins is a good idea, but how long would he last, if he banned it going forward? Not long, in my view.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Seraphim
  580. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Excellent point – will fix!

    Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow.

    Peace.

  581. @Talha

    Because they wouldn’t be considered official People of the Book just by heritage with us.

    And what exactly would that imply in your ideal Islamic society?

    • Replies: @Talha
  582. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Talha,

    I have been holding back on some points which interest me because I don’t want to add to the bizarre pileon (atypical for Karlin’s blog).

    But as far as

    Haram – ask any scholar.

    is concerned, isn’t that the same problem you have with the greater American society you are imme