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Merkel's Clever Plan
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Couple of telling Breitbart headlines.

* 42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background

The data comes from a two-year study by the German Federal Statistical Office which has shown not only has there been a strong increase of migrants coming to Germany from overseas, but also a strong trend of native Germans leaving to move abroad, Die Welt reports.

The effects are most clearly seen in western Germany where it is estimated that up to 42 percent of children under the age of six now come from a migration background, but the reason for the rapid change in demographics is not down to mass migration alone. …

Falling birthrates have also led to a decline among the native German population. As well as losing around 217,000 citizens due to emigration over the past two years, 500,000 more Germans died than were born over the same period. The result is a loss of 700,000 Germans in total, over only two years.

It’s a double whammy.

While the US continues to remains very attractive for white Americans, this doesn’t seem to be the case for Germany and native Germans. Not only are immigrants coming in, but Germans are going out.

That, coupled with higher US white fertility – even if it’s also falling fast – means that Germany is catching up with the US in the population replacement stakes, despite starting out so far behind.

Where are those Germans going?

Most, I suspect, go to the Anglosphere: The US, Australia, the UK (at least before Brexit). I assume the elderly are retiring in Iberia.

But there’s also a rising trend of downshifting to cheaper, whiter Eastern Europe.

* Germans “flee” to Hungary to escape Merkel’s migrant policy, fear “civil war”

In cases of ‘reverse migration’, Germans are moving from Western to Eastern Europe to resettle in “cheap, Muslim-free” Hungary in order to escape the chaos caused by German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s open door policy, reports Hungary Today. …

The seller of the property that the young couple viewed, which is on the market for €14,000 (around £12,000), said: “We are Christians…We don’t want Muslim neighbours. They have a different culture and are aggressive. And this we can’t accept.”

Approximately 30,000 Germans live on Lake Balaton, this number is said to have increased in the past year since the migrant crisis began.

We idiots thought Merkel just some stupid ditz inviting in Infinity Refugees because she felt really bad about that photo of the dead Syrian child or whatever. Women politics raus!

But in reality she was playing the ultimate game of 666D interdimensional Teichmuller chess!

The Germans will once again settle throughout Eastern Europe, reversing the expulsions at the end of World War II and recreating the Ostsiedlung.

Then the Based Nazis in the AfD will win the coming civil war:

“I wish so much for a civil war with millions dead. Women, kids, don’t care. Just want it to get started. It would be especially funny if it happened at a counter demonstration. Dead, crippled. I want to piss on corpses and dance on graves. SIEG HEIL!” – Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary.

They will then genocide the immigrants and stage a humanitarian intervention into Eastern Europe to protect their new German communities and to stop Russia from holocausting its remaining Jews.

It’s a brilliant plan I must admit. Galactic Brain tier.

 
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  1. Ran into a few Germans scattered around Ukraine, mostly as upper management for various industrial companies. A handful were running beerhauses though, including a particularly good one in Poltava. There was also some political dissidents living in Kiev and associating with Azov.

    • Replies: @Jayce
    There was also some political dissidents living in Kiev and associating with Azov.

    Speaking of which, seems ol' Grindr Greg was in Kiev recently for the rough trade.

    https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/10/exposed-u-s-gladio-gathering-in-ukraine-neo-nazi-pederast-greg-johnson-casapound-svoboda/
  2. Where are those Germans going?

    Switzerland is quite popular (to the consternation of many Swiss).
    I don’t really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally…I guess one can still make good money there though.
    Anyway, the 42% of children with migrant background in West Germany is somewhat mitigated by the fact that many of those must be other Europeans (according to the official definition I have a migrant background myself, lol). Still, the overall trend is of course catastrophic, it’s hard not to feel total despair, especially since voting for the Greens (who are even worse open borders fanatics than Merkel!) now seems to be the cool thing to do for the degenerate bourgeoisie of this infantile lemming society.
    Merkel herself might possibly be soon overthrown, next Sunday there are elections in Hesse, and it looks grim for the CDU. Unfortunately her removal probably won’t change anything, since her replacement will probably be just as bad…a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.

    • Replies: @Mitleser

    a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.
     
    Laschet and his master.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoQ_QonW0AAzBqP.jpg
    , @Dmitry

    nglo countries are even more rotten
     
    In general, employment aged people who emigrate because they especially love culture or politics of a country they emigrate to, are not the normal motivation. Any larger flows of young people emigrating within the EU - it's people responding to job opportunities.

    Emigration from Germany seems quite low - although maybe in some professions, like banking, there might be many Germans in London (?).

    Some patterns which I saw as common, are engineers and professionals from Spain and Italy, now common, after emigration, in other parts of the EU, which is predictable response to surplus of qualified people to jobs in the countries.

    , @Twinkie

    I don’t really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally…I guess one can still make good money there though.
     
    I know a couple of traditional Catholic German families that now live in the U.S. They live in a "conservative" area and homeschool their children. They are happy here in the States.
    , @Anon

    I don’t really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere
     
    German doctors love US apparently.
    , @JRB
    Two months ago, during the Seehofer-crisis, all the main Dutch newspapers, who are nowadays mostly under control of the Clinton-faction within the deep state, were all writing that Jens Spahn would be the successor of Angela Merkel. I thought this was plausible since Spahn is a homosexual, he went trough the „Young Leader Program“ of the American Council for Germany and he even attended the Bilderberg conference last year. Laschet on the other hand only became minister-president of NRW by accident (implosion of the SPD). He is already in his late fifties, he is married and he even has children (nowadays a disadvantage). He also seems to have no backing from outside of Germany.
    , @Dante
    Hey German reader I checked the Destatis website re people of migrant background and your correct the majority are other Europeans who along with ethnic Germans are still the vast majority. However the trends mentioned in the article are of course disappointing, I should hope the Afd can truly become a force to be reckoned with sooner than later. Cheers
  3. ANGELA MERKEL—SHAM LEADER OF A SHAM DEMOCRACY.

    This is quite unfortunate, this ethnic cleansing of whites in Germany.

    Angela Merkel invited millions of 3rd world aliens illegally—the German parliament must approve this invasion for it to become law, but they never did.

    Germany was turned into a Jewish controlled police by USA (another Jewish controlled banana republic) after WW2.

    After WW2, USA basically took over Germany, and illegally had them pass a temporary framework called the “Basic Law” which gives all power to a “Federal Constitution Court” and installed a sham democracy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Constitutional_Court_of_Germany

    Even the German site below admits that theirs is a govt. under “Judicial control”.

    http://www.tatsachen-ueber-deutschland.de/en/political-system/main-content-04/the-basic-law.html

    This Basic Law is NOT the constitution, was never ratified by the people, was temporary and has already expired. This Basic law and this “Federal Constitutional Court” are therefore unconstitutional and therefore illegal and null and void:

    http://www.rense.com/general69/germany.htm

    Since the Basic Law is null and void, all of Angela Merkel’s decisions, such as allowing tens of thousands of 3rd world “refugees” and “migrants” to settle her country, her persecution of holocaust scholars, etc. are all ultra vires and therefore null and void.

    This illegal court*, is stuffed with Judges from the 2 main left wing parties, and these crooks then ban almost all right wing parties that are against immigration, etc. (often at the behest of the Judaists who file these cases, just like in other countries) so their left wing Jewish puppets like Angela Merkel remain in power.

    *In fact, even according to the liberal wikipedia, the appointment of Judges there is unconstitutional:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Constitutional_Court_of_Germany#Appointment_of_judges

    Germany is still US occupied territory with Angela Merkel as the puppet leader of a sham democracy.

    • Agree: Rosie
  4. On emigration topic.

    It would be interesting to see chart of the longterm trend.

    But don’t emigration figures from Germany, actually seem very low, for a country within free-movement bloc (EU)?

    As well as losing around 217,000 citizens due to emigration over the past two years

    So 108,500 are emigrating per year.

    German population – 82,800,000.

    At the same time, Germany is inside a free-movement bloc, that allows any German an effortless emigration to a choice of 28 EU countries.

    German citizen can be a pensioner in Spain, or go to work in a bank (or cafe) in London, without even needing to write any paperwork.

    These might be low emigration numbers (?), and reflecting low unemployment rates of German economy?

    By comparison, 12% of Poland’s workforce has emigrated just to the UK after joining the EU.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Poland was poor.

    Germany is not poor. Yet.

    German population – 82,800,000.
     
    That is the population of Germany.

    https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Bevoelkerung/Bevoelkerungsstand/Tabellen/Zensus_Geschlecht_Staatsangehoerigkeit.html

    "German" population = 73,013,300.

    It is steadily declining each year despite 100k+ naturalizations per year.
    https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/159084/umfrage/einbuergerung-von-auslaendern/
    , @A.A.

    So 108,500 are emigrating per year.
     
    They've refined the way they count emigration, so about 140 000 German citizens left Germany in 2015 (more of less similar numbers in the years before that) and due to recalculations the number has jumped to ~280 000 German citizens emigrating in 2016.

    Here's an amusing article on the topic: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article175104943/Abwanderung-Migrationsforscher-sieht-keinen-Grund-zur-Sorge.html?zanpid=11459_1527159215_2832a641aa47f8f7e2631eb7a1bcbb66 (Google translate does a well enough job)

    Some excerpts:

    Welt: The migration loss of 135,000 and the 880,000 deceased citizens in 2016, however, were compared to only 600,000 births of mothers with German citizenship. So, so to speak, the country has lost a net 400,000 citizens in just one year. Does society sustain such a severe shrinking of permanent workforce?

    Erlinghagen: Overall, the population in Germany is currently not shrinking - but growing. A distinction between population with German citizenship or without makes little sense from a socio-political point of view. But if you want to focus on German citizens, then I have pointed out that we have naturalizations on a similar scale as migrations.
  5. @Hokie
    Ran into a few Germans scattered around Ukraine, mostly as upper management for various industrial companies. A handful were running beerhauses though, including a particularly good one in Poltava. There was also some political dissidents living in Kiev and associating with Azov.

    There was also some political dissidents living in Kiev and associating with Azov.

    Speaking of which, seems ol’ Grindr Greg was in Kiev recently for the rough trade.

    https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/10/exposed-u-s-gladio-gathering-in-ukraine-neo-nazi-pederast-greg-johnson-casapound-svoboda/

    • Replies: @Hokie
    The male strippers and prostitutes are unfortunately advertised almost as much as their female counterparts, so not too surprising.
  6. @German_reader

    Where are those Germans going?
     
    Switzerland is quite popular (to the consternation of many Swiss).
    I don't really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally...I guess one can still make good money there though.
    Anyway, the 42% of children with migrant background in West Germany is somewhat mitigated by the fact that many of those must be other Europeans (according to the official definition I have a migrant background myself, lol). Still, the overall trend is of course catastrophic, it's hard not to feel total despair, especially since voting for the Greens (who are even worse open borders fanatics than Merkel!) now seems to be the cool thing to do for the degenerate bourgeoisie of this infantile lemming society.
    Merkel herself might possibly be soon overthrown, next Sunday there are elections in Hesse, and it looks grim for the CDU. Unfortunately her removal probably won't change anything, since her replacement will probably be just as bad...a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.

    a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.

    Laschet and his master.

  7. @German_reader

    Where are those Germans going?
     
    Switzerland is quite popular (to the consternation of many Swiss).
    I don't really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally...I guess one can still make good money there though.
    Anyway, the 42% of children with migrant background in West Germany is somewhat mitigated by the fact that many of those must be other Europeans (according to the official definition I have a migrant background myself, lol). Still, the overall trend is of course catastrophic, it's hard not to feel total despair, especially since voting for the Greens (who are even worse open borders fanatics than Merkel!) now seems to be the cool thing to do for the degenerate bourgeoisie of this infantile lemming society.
    Merkel herself might possibly be soon overthrown, next Sunday there are elections in Hesse, and it looks grim for the CDU. Unfortunately her removal probably won't change anything, since her replacement will probably be just as bad...a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.

    nglo countries are even more rotten

    In general, employment aged people who emigrate because they especially love culture or politics of a country they emigrate to, are not the normal motivation. Any larger flows of young people emigrating within the EU – it’s people responding to job opportunities.

    Emigration from Germany seems quite low – although maybe in some professions, like banking, there might be many Germans in London (?).

    Some patterns which I saw as common, are engineers and professionals from Spain and Italy, now common, after emigration, in other parts of the EU, which is predictable response to surplus of qualified people to jobs in the countries.

  8. There is no plan. People with no children don’t think about what will happen once they are gone. Merkel will live out her sad existence repeating ‘we meant well‘, ‘it seemed like the right thing to do “, “because, you know, we have values“.

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way. The rest of Germany will gradually transform into non-Germany, my guess would be broken trains by 2030, no manufacturing skills by 2040, and by 2050 most people will switch away from the German language. They might even put up statues of saint Angela. It took few thousands of years to build, it could be gone in 2-3 generations.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way.
     
    It would be great if that would happen, I would immediately move there and be a supporter of armed secession if necessary. But tbh it looks even grim for Bavaria, with major cities like Munich and Nuremberg being less and less German, the CSU is pretty cucked as well, with many of their top politicians claiming that their poor results in the recent elections were due to excessive criticism of Merkel and too much focus on the immigration and asylum issue (repellent to the Christian "refugees welcome" crowd! One mustn't forget that the Catholic church is strongly in favour of Merkel's policy...cardinal Reinhard Marx and the archbishop of Paderborn just donated 50 000 Euros each to one of those NGOs taking up Africans in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe). The CSU people have understood nothing, and in the end they only care about their own power and patronage networks anyway.
    The East is more militant, but it's also demographically weak and doesn't have much of a voice in the national debate which is dominated by totally brainwashed West Germans.
    , @anonymous coward

    my guess would be broken trains by 2030
     
    German trains were already broken in 2013, when I last visited. (Well, broken at least by Russian standards; it's a high bar, but normally Germans should be able to clear it.)
    , @notanon

    There is no plan.
     
    Clinton's private speeches to the banks, the funding of political parties by the banking mafia throughout the West and the consistency of their media's lies shows there is a plan - although I agree politicians like Merkel might not understand what that plan is.
  9. @Dmitry
    On emigration topic.

    It would be interesting to see chart of the longterm trend.

    But don't emigration figures from Germany, actually seem very low, for a country within free-movement bloc (EU)?

    As well as losing around 217,000 citizens due to emigration over the past two years

     

    So 108,500 are emigrating per year.

    German population - 82,800,000.

    At the same time, Germany is inside a free-movement bloc, that allows any German an effortless emigration to a choice of 28 EU countries.

    German citizen can be a pensioner in Spain, or go to work in a bank (or cafe) in London, without even needing to write any paperwork.

    These might be low emigration numbers (?), and reflecting low unemployment rates of German economy?

    By comparison, 12% of Poland's workforce has emigrated just to the UK after joining the EU.

    Poland was poor.

    Germany is not poor. Yet.

    German population – 82,800,000.

    That is the population of Germany.

    https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Bevoelkerung/Bevoelkerungsstand/Tabellen/Zensus_Geschlecht_Staatsangehoerigkeit.html

    “German” population = 73,013,300.

    It is steadily declining each year despite 100k+ naturalizations per year.

    https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/159084/umfrage/einbuergerung-von-auslaendern/

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Except during war, emigration determined by economics combined with easiness of emigration.

    Germany, with a too good economy, problems are immigration (too many people want to live in Germany, from both EU and non-EU). Germany's emigration numbers are low, while immigration is too high.

    EU was designed for populations to freely relocate between different member states.

    Germans don't seem to be moving to other countries in large numbers - only 0.13% of Germans are emigrating each year, while Germany receiving far more people from other EU states (not to mention, additional, immigration from non-EU states, such as hundreds of thousands of unfiltered Syrians and Turks).

    Everything in the EU is predictably symmetrical. Countries like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc, suffer from problems of emigration. Countries like Germany, UK, Ireland, Sweden, suffer from problems of immigration.

    Some countries have too many people leaving, others too many people arriving. It emphasizes why, - from both sides - it was useful for countries to have borders.

  10. @Beckow
    There is no plan. People with no children don't think about what will happen once they are gone. Merkel will live out her sad existence repeating 'we meant well', 'it seemed like the right thing to do ", "because, you know, we have values".

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way. The rest of Germany will gradually transform into non-Germany, my guess would be broken trains by 2030, no manufacturing skills by 2040, and by 2050 most people will switch away from the German language. They might even put up statues of saint Angela. It took few thousands of years to build, it could be gone in 2-3 generations.

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way.

    It would be great if that would happen, I would immediately move there and be a supporter of armed secession if necessary. But tbh it looks even grim for Bavaria, with major cities like Munich and Nuremberg being less and less German, the CSU is pretty cucked as well, with many of their top politicians claiming that their poor results in the recent elections were due to excessive criticism of Merkel and too much focus on the immigration and asylum issue (repellent to the Christian “refugees welcome” crowd! One mustn’t forget that the Catholic church is strongly in favour of Merkel’s policy…cardinal Reinhard Marx and the archbishop of Paderborn just donated 50 000 Euros each to one of those NGOs taking up Africans in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe). The CSU people have understood nothing, and in the end they only care about their own power and patronage networks anyway.
    The East is more militant, but it’s also demographically weak and doesn’t have much of a voice in the national debate which is dominated by totally brainwashed West Germans.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    It would be great if that would happen, I would immediately move there

     

    What about Switzerland? German is majority language. Lots of jobs available in diverse fields - after enough years, you might be qualifying for citizenship.
    , @Beckow
    The thing about West Germans losing their mojo is scary. Nations lost wars before, nations were demonised before and they recovered. The lack of resilience displayed in Germany in the last 10-20 years is historically unique, something else might be going on. I think that Germany was wrong in WWII, it triggered a European cataclysm without thinking through the consequences, the obsession with wiping out its eastern neighbours was criminal. But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn't black and white. Why can't Germans move on and live with today's realities?

    I can see the Church is a problem. There has always been a self-destructive element in Christianity, it is almost designed to be counter-evolutionary for its adherents. But the music is nice and one has to have a routine and some rituals during those inevitable life events. Either the church people have started the take the mushy verbiage in their sacred texts too seriously, or there are external forces using them. Maybe both.

    I have faith in large parts of Germany, well mostly the easterners, but it has to start with demographic strength. That would create its own dynamic, new attitudes, self-confidence. For that one has to have leaders invested in the future - and Merkel is the exact opposite.
  11. @Mitleser
    Poland was poor.

    Germany is not poor. Yet.

    German population – 82,800,000.
     
    That is the population of Germany.

    https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Bevoelkerung/Bevoelkerungsstand/Tabellen/Zensus_Geschlecht_Staatsangehoerigkeit.html

    "German" population = 73,013,300.

    It is steadily declining each year despite 100k+ naturalizations per year.
    https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/159084/umfrage/einbuergerung-von-auslaendern/

    Except during war, emigration determined by economics combined with easiness of emigration.

    Germany, with a too good economy, problems are immigration (too many people want to live in Germany, from both EU and non-EU). Germany’s emigration numbers are low, while immigration is too high.

    EU was designed for populations to freely relocate between different member states.

    Germans don’t seem to be moving to other countries in large numbers – only 0.13% of Germans are emigrating each year, while Germany receiving far more people from other EU states (not to mention, additional, immigration from non-EU states, such as hundreds of thousands of unfiltered Syrians and Turks).

    Everything in the EU is predictably symmetrical. Countries like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc, suffer from problems of emigration. Countries like Germany, UK, Ireland, Sweden, suffer from problems of immigration.

    Some countries have too many people leaving, others too many people arriving. It emphasizes why, – from both sides – it was useful for countries to have borders.

  12. @German_reader

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way.
     
    It would be great if that would happen, I would immediately move there and be a supporter of armed secession if necessary. But tbh it looks even grim for Bavaria, with major cities like Munich and Nuremberg being less and less German, the CSU is pretty cucked as well, with many of their top politicians claiming that their poor results in the recent elections were due to excessive criticism of Merkel and too much focus on the immigration and asylum issue (repellent to the Christian "refugees welcome" crowd! One mustn't forget that the Catholic church is strongly in favour of Merkel's policy...cardinal Reinhard Marx and the archbishop of Paderborn just donated 50 000 Euros each to one of those NGOs taking up Africans in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe). The CSU people have understood nothing, and in the end they only care about their own power and patronage networks anyway.
    The East is more militant, but it's also demographically weak and doesn't have much of a voice in the national debate which is dominated by totally brainwashed West Germans.

    It would be great if that would happen, I would immediately move there

    What about Switzerland? German is majority language. Lots of jobs available in diverse fields – after enough years, you might be qualifying for citizenship.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I don't intend to leave Germany (nobody would take me anyway), and frankly I'm sick of all the people who come up with things like "All is lost anyway, let's just move somewhere else and watch the end of Germany from afar!". In their own way they're just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.
    And you really need to stop reducing everything to economics.
  13. They will then genocide the immigrants and stage a humanitarian intervention into Eastern Europe to protect their new German communities and to stop Russia from holocausting its remaining Jews.

    It’s a brilliant plan I must admit. Galactic Brain tier.

    Thanks Anatoly for this deep, deep analysis, based on…I like the effects of the LSD trip that you recently took on your thinking process and ability to synthesize current events and make such lucid projections for Germany’s and Russia’s future (I was actually looking for any indications that these thoughts of yours were sarcastic, but no, they appear not to be). Keep it up, your ratings must be going off the charts! :-)

    (Your stuff is much more entertaining than Averko’s or that other Stooge’s).

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    (I was actually looking for any indications that these thoughts of yours were sarcastic, but no, they appear not to be).
     
    https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/galaxy-brain-meme-explains-2017/
  14. The Germans will once again settle throughout Eastern Europe, reversing the expulsions at the end of World War II and recreating the Ostsiedlung.

    Drang nach Osten!

  15. @German_reader

    Where are those Germans going?
     
    Switzerland is quite popular (to the consternation of many Swiss).
    I don't really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally...I guess one can still make good money there though.
    Anyway, the 42% of children with migrant background in West Germany is somewhat mitigated by the fact that many of those must be other Europeans (according to the official definition I have a migrant background myself, lol). Still, the overall trend is of course catastrophic, it's hard not to feel total despair, especially since voting for the Greens (who are even worse open borders fanatics than Merkel!) now seems to be the cool thing to do for the degenerate bourgeoisie of this infantile lemming society.
    Merkel herself might possibly be soon overthrown, next Sunday there are elections in Hesse, and it looks grim for the CDU. Unfortunately her removal probably won't change anything, since her replacement will probably be just as bad...a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.

    I don’t really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally…I guess one can still make good money there though.

    I know a couple of traditional Catholic German families that now live in the U.S. They live in a “conservative” area and homeschool their children. They are happy here in the States.

  16. > based Nazi Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary, wishing for a civil war with millions dead

    kontextwochenzeitung.de is a left wing online publication (only Wednesdays) that gets published in print on Saturdays in equally left wing taz newspaper. They claim to have the corresponding chat protocols without giving any proof, so this relies entirely on their credibility. Hardly a paper of record reported on the quotes, cf https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Ich+wünsche+mir+so+sehr+einen+Bürgerkrieg+und+Millione+Tote.+Frauen%2C+Kinder.%22

    The first hit is nominally the Heise Verlag, which is a reputable company publishing computer magazines, but Telepolis/Kommentare is the commentary section of blog-like publication of theirs. (https://www.heise.de/forum/Telepolis/Kommentare/Eine-ganz-normale-Nazi-Partei/Ich-wuensche-mir-so-sehr-einen-Buergerkrieg-und-Millione-Tote/posting-32364774/show)

    He seems to be a right winger and extremists certainly are trying to take over the AfD, yet I’m wary of these news.

    • Replies: @theo the kraut
    Else there's de.nachrichten.yahoo.com, huffingtonpost.de, tagesschau.de. (reader commentary) Second/third rate news junk, no paper of record would touch it.
    , @Anonymous
    QUOTE: Nazi Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary, wishing for a civil war with millions dead ...

    A "Nazi" party controlled and operated by government agents provocateurs existed in the former West Germany, operated by MI6 agent Adolf von Thadden whose sister had been executed by the actual Nazis.

    More recently, almost every "neo-Nazi" incident in Germany ended up revealing the presence of government agents, often from bitterly feuding rival agencies. Several murders were committed to cover up government involvement in these incidents.

    At present, Germany's weakening government coalition (quietly supported by hard-left "Greens") is using all resources of the Deep State to undermine the national-conservative AfD (Alternative for Germany). The injection of noisy agents provocateur to paint the party as "Nazi" is certainly part of the Deep State suppression project. Far more nefarious operations are likely in train.

    In fact, given the time of its foundation (after 2000), the AfD is the only party who never had ACTUAL National Socialists in its senior ranks.

  17. @theo the kraut
    > based Nazi Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary, wishing for a civil war with millions dead

    kontextwochenzeitung.de is a left wing online publication (only Wednesdays) that gets published in print on Saturdays in equally left wing taz newspaper. They claim to have the corresponding chat protocols without giving any proof, so this relies entirely on their credibility. Hardly a paper of record reported on the quotes, cf https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Ich+wünsche+mir+so+sehr+einen+Bürgerkrieg+und+Millione+Tote.+Frauen%2C+Kinder.%22

    The first hit is nominally the Heise Verlag, which is a reputable company publishing computer magazines, but Telepolis/Kommentare is the commentary section of blog-like publication of theirs. (https://www.heise.de/forum/Telepolis/Kommentare/Eine-ganz-normale-Nazi-Partei/Ich-wuensche-mir-so-sehr-einen-Buergerkrieg-und-Millione-Tote/posting-32364774/show)

    He seems to be a right winger and extremists certainly are trying to take over the AfD, yet I'm wary of these news.

    Else there’s de.nachrichten.yahoo.com, huffingtonpost.de, tagesschau.de. (reader commentary) Second/third rate news junk, no paper of record would touch it.

  18. It’s a brilliant plan I must admit.

    Well then, in the Czech Republic, Merkel’s conspiracy is opposed by an even more cunning plan. I was in Prague at the beginning of February – the city was filled with a huge number of Chinese (in the crowd in the center of the city the Chinese were the majority at times).

    They were mostly tourists, but there were also” local ” Chinese (many shops were served by the Chinese).

    The second largest (among non-Czechs) were Russians. Prague was filled with huge crowds of tourists from Russia (including special tourists-gopniks. I’m not kidding, I actually saw a tourist group of gopniks). These tourists were served by local Russian-speaking (as it seemed to me mainly from Ukraine). Even some Chinese sellers in stores have learned Russian!

    But the Germans, contrary to my expectations there were very very few. The only notable German trace was a Vietnamese seller in a shop near our hotel – this seller stubbornly tried to speak to my wife in German

    • LOL: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Yevardian
    That place has changed a lot, I don't recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.
    , @Spisarevski

    a tourist group of gopniks
     
    Putin agents, the lot of them. All gopnik tourists are GRU agents. It is known.
    , @utu

    https://brnodaily.cz/2018/02/15/breaking-news/tourism-to-czech-republic-up-9-1-in-2017/
    České noviny (Czech News, Feb. 8,2018) reports that while every region of the Czech Republic experienced an increase in tourism last year, the largest increase was in South Moravia, which witnessed a 14.6 percent spike in the number of visitors compared with 2016.

    Of these 20.1 million tourists nationwide, roughly half (10.2 million) were visiting from abroad, with the Germans (1.95 million), Slovaks (688,000) and Poles (578,000) being the most numerous.

    Russian tourism to the Czech Republic increased by 35.3 percent from the previous year, making them the fourth most numerous nationality to visit.

    There was also a large increase in tourism from East Asian nations such as China, South Korea, and Taiwan.
     
    , @anon
    'Local' chinese are in fact vietnamesse settled during comunist era. They come to learn but after some time many of them (~40k) never returned to Vietnam. They are hardworking and nice people.
  19. @Beckow
    There is no plan. People with no children don't think about what will happen once they are gone. Merkel will live out her sad existence repeating 'we meant well', 'it seemed like the right thing to do ", "because, you know, we have values".

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way. The rest of Germany will gradually transform into non-Germany, my guess would be broken trains by 2030, no manufacturing skills by 2040, and by 2050 most people will switch away from the German language. They might even put up statues of saint Angela. It took few thousands of years to build, it could be gone in 2-3 generations.

    my guess would be broken trains by 2030

    German trains were already broken in 2013, when I last visited. (Well, broken at least by Russian standards; it’s a high bar, but normally Germans should be able to clear it.)

  20. ]OT but people you are not exactly making much sense here: assuming that you will want to roll back the poz and moral degeneracy and the like in Western culture, how exactly are you people planning to make it work without something akin to China’s social credit system? Especially if you plan to jettison the dues vult argument as being too irrational in nature, and plan to rely exclusively on secular reasons to restore public morality? In any case it is going to require a fairly heavy handed amount of govt intervention, like a revamped version of the 50s Hays code. So why in fact would something like China’s social credit system be the wrong tool to use in this case.

  21. I have zero doubts that many of those fleeing will bring their left wing ideology right with them and try make the same happen to the places they fled to. I have encountered this cognitive dissonance amongst friends and even direct family, they will happily adhere to whatever the MSM tells them to think (Macron good, Le Pen bad, Putin is satan, Trump is a Russian agent, endless immigration is a right, etc, etc, etc), but then at times they will complain about all the massive demographic changes that are taking place.

  22. I think that the opposition of Karlin and the people here against China’s social credit system is an attempt to virtue signal and pander to libertarians here like Abelard Lindsey.

  23. @melanf

    It’s a brilliant plan I must admit.
     
    Well then, in the Czech Republic, Merkel's conspiracy is opposed by an even more cunning plan. I was in Prague at the beginning of February - the city was filled with a huge number of Chinese (in the crowd in the center of the city the Chinese were the majority at times).
    https://a.radikal.ru/a42/1810/0e/41d49b30d4bb.jpg
    They were mostly tourists, but there were also" local " Chinese (many shops were served by the Chinese).

    The second largest (among non-Czechs) were Russians. Prague was filled with huge crowds of tourists from Russia (including special tourists-gopniks. I'm not kidding, I actually saw a tourist group of gopniks). These tourists were served by local Russian-speaking (as it seemed to me mainly from Ukraine). Even some Chinese sellers in stores have learned Russian!

    But the Germans, contrary to my expectations there were very very few. The only notable German trace was a Vietnamese seller in a shop near our hotel - this seller stubbornly tried to speak to my wife in German

    That place has changed a lot, I don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.

    • Replies: @neutral

    That place has changed a lot, I don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.
     
    I wonder what the average Chinaman is thinking when they visit such places, do they really want to pay a lot to go to these places to see other Chinamen. Even worse than that, what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris, they paid a lot to blacks and browns.
    , @melanf

    don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.
     
    In recent years, the Chinese began to travel EN masse to tourist trips. In Russia it is very noticeable - suddenly there were thick crowds of Chinese tourists. Now in St. Petersburg every fifth tourist is Chinese, and at the airports make announcements in Chinese. In the recent past, there were no Chinese tourists at all.
  24. @Yevardian
    That place has changed a lot, I don't recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.

    That place has changed a lot, I don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.

    I wonder what the average Chinaman is thinking when they visit such places, do they really want to pay a lot to go to these places to see other Chinamen. Even worse than that, what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris, they paid a lot to blacks and browns.

    • Replies: @Nznz
    Yan Shen and Stolen Valor Detective would say that the 10 point higher IQ from elite East Asian immigration is worth the race genocide?
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris"

    Not sure they like it too much.

    https://www.thelocal.fr/20171109/french-robbers-prey-on-big-spending-chinese-tourists-in-romantic-paris

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-robbery-china/china-urges-france-to-protect-chinese-tourists-after-group-of-40-robbed-idUSKBN1D60YQ

    "BEIJING (Reuters) - China urged France on Monday to take more effective measures to ensure the safety of its nationals visiting the country, after a group of 40 Chinese tourists was tear-gassed and robbed in Paris."

    However the Chinese are fighting back.

    https://www.vice.com/da/article/gqnzxj/are-chinese-tourists-the-worst-tourists-in-the-world

    "Outside the Louvre in Paris, there’s a sign in Mandarin which tells visitors not to defecate in the surrounding grounds. This sign is only written in Mandarin Chinese."
    , @Hyperborean

    I wonder what the average Chinaman is thinking when they visit such places, do they really want to pay a lot to go to these places to see other Chinamen. Even worse than that, what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris, they paid a lot to blacks and browns.
     
    The gingerbread houses are still standing.

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4143/4888346156_47a852357c_b.jpg

    There are former European concessions in China that have been turned into very popular tourist attractions with shopping areas or immensely overpriced restaurants serving French, German or Italian cuisine.

    And if they can't find real European-built buildings then they just create copies.
  25. This image perfectly captures the insanity of the global immigration zeitgeist.

    For those that want context, this is one of those Spanish areas in North Africa, where Africans are storming them at increasing rates.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    This impressive photograph might have some measurable effect on Steve Sailer's innermost self, mightn't it?
    , @oy whey
    even the golf hole is going to get raped
  26. @melanf

    It’s a brilliant plan I must admit.
     
    Well then, in the Czech Republic, Merkel's conspiracy is opposed by an even more cunning plan. I was in Prague at the beginning of February - the city was filled with a huge number of Chinese (in the crowd in the center of the city the Chinese were the majority at times).
    https://a.radikal.ru/a42/1810/0e/41d49b30d4bb.jpg
    They were mostly tourists, but there were also" local " Chinese (many shops were served by the Chinese).

    The second largest (among non-Czechs) were Russians. Prague was filled with huge crowds of tourists from Russia (including special tourists-gopniks. I'm not kidding, I actually saw a tourist group of gopniks). These tourists were served by local Russian-speaking (as it seemed to me mainly from Ukraine). Even some Chinese sellers in stores have learned Russian!

    But the Germans, contrary to my expectations there were very very few. The only notable German trace was a Vietnamese seller in a shop near our hotel - this seller stubbornly tried to speak to my wife in German

    a tourist group of gopniks

    Putin agents, the lot of them. All gopnik tourists are GRU agents. It is known.

    • LOL: Hyperborean
  27. @melanf

    It’s a brilliant plan I must admit.
     
    Well then, in the Czech Republic, Merkel's conspiracy is opposed by an even more cunning plan. I was in Prague at the beginning of February - the city was filled with a huge number of Chinese (in the crowd in the center of the city the Chinese were the majority at times).
    https://a.radikal.ru/a42/1810/0e/41d49b30d4bb.jpg
    They were mostly tourists, but there were also" local " Chinese (many shops were served by the Chinese).

    The second largest (among non-Czechs) were Russians. Prague was filled with huge crowds of tourists from Russia (including special tourists-gopniks. I'm not kidding, I actually saw a tourist group of gopniks). These tourists were served by local Russian-speaking (as it seemed to me mainly from Ukraine). Even some Chinese sellers in stores have learned Russian!

    But the Germans, contrary to my expectations there were very very few. The only notable German trace was a Vietnamese seller in a shop near our hotel - this seller stubbornly tried to speak to my wife in German

    https://brnodaily.cz/2018/02/15/breaking-news/tourism-to-czech-republic-up-9-1-in-2017/
    České noviny (Czech News, Feb. 8,2018) reports that while every region of the Czech Republic experienced an increase in tourism last year, the largest increase was in South Moravia, which witnessed a 14.6 percent spike in the number of visitors compared with 2016.

    Of these 20.1 million tourists nationwide, roughly half (10.2 million) were visiting from abroad, with the Germans (1.95 million), Slovaks (688,000) and Poles (578,000) being the most numerous.

    Russian tourism to the Czech Republic increased by 35.3 percent from the previous year, making them the fourth most numerous nationality to visit.

    There was also a large increase in tourism from East Asian nations such as China, South Korea, and Taiwan.

    • Replies: @melanf

    Of these 20.1 million tourists nationwide, roughly half (10.2 million) were visiting from abroad, with the Germans (1.95 million), Slovaks (688,000) and Poles (578,000) being the most numerous.
     
    When I was in Prague, the number of Chinese and Russian tourists clearly exceeded the number of German tourists (аbout Slovaks and Рoles can not say, because I can not distinguish them from the Czechs). Perhaps the reason is the season of the year, but perhaps the majority of German tourists just come to the border cities of the Czech Republic for shopping. Such quasitourism is flourishing around the Russian border with Finland
  28. @neutral

    That place has changed a lot, I don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.
     
    I wonder what the average Chinaman is thinking when they visit such places, do they really want to pay a lot to go to these places to see other Chinamen. Even worse than that, what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris, they paid a lot to blacks and browns.

    Yan Shen and Stolen Valor Detective would say that the 10 point higher IQ from elite East Asian immigration is worth the race genocide?

  29. @Dmitry

    It would be great if that would happen, I would immediately move there

     

    What about Switzerland? German is majority language. Lots of jobs available in diverse fields - after enough years, you might be qualifying for citizenship.

    I don’t intend to leave Germany (nobody would take me anyway), and frankly I’m sick of all the people who come up with things like “All is lost anyway, let’s just move somewhere else and watch the end of Germany from afar!”. In their own way they’re just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.
    And you really need to stop reducing everything to economics.

    • Replies: @Peter Frost
    If Faith Goldy wins the Toronto election, will this have any impact on Europeans? Is this something that Europeans even know about and talk about?
    , @Yevardian
    Well, Dmitri is the archetypal Russian liberal living in America. I guess I live abroad too, but diaspora is really the default state for us. And Armenia is a far, far more dysfunctional shithole than Russia.
    , @songbird

    In their own way they’re just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.
     
    Some might consider it a tactical retreat. In Spain, during the Islamic conquest, Christians fled North. This positive population growth helped facilitate the Reconquista.

    It is easier to have European children in less enriched areas, especially the larger that they are - nations easiest. Believe me, normal people speak of this in code, perhaps even subconsciously all the time in the US. They speak of "good schools." What happens is that housing costs shoot way up because people try to get out of the enriched areas and price discrimination is the only legal means of segregation. Most jobs are in the city - they control the cities, so commute is an issue and that creates scarcity.

    What is really worrying though, I see black faces increasingly in the middle of the countryside. Both in the US and Europe.
    , @Dmitry
    Well, perhaps I am not knowledgeable about Germans and Swiss - but I cannot imagine it would be a very difficult, or distant, emigration (except in terms of paperwork) for a German to just travel over a border to another majority German speaking country (although one with the highest salaries and living standard in the world, as well as more sensible political affairs).
  30. https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/6qyawt/alterspyramide_der_deutschen_bev%C3%B6lkerung_nach/

    that would be 2013. Generally don’t go very far, if you want the model just look at the US
    You’re just witnessing the import of a society paradigm. Much of the culture wars and PC onslaught shoved down people’s throats is just the accompanying ideology needed to make the transition

    Immediate differences are that the islamic element is much stronger in western Europe, although the US left now seems keen to correct (should be easy once the Trump train of morons self-destructs or is terminally gutted). The other is the welfare state which will get unsustainable but it makes sense that things should converge to US norms as well, that’s what someone like Macron is about after all

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    "the welfare state which will get unsustainable"

    I'm not so sure about that. The plan is to give all citizens a monthly cash stipend. No problem, the Fed will just create it. The poor will spend all their's and that's good, a consistent reliable demand makes for easy planning. Farmer's will continue to receive their subsidies to grow food. So that evens out.

    Now on to housing. Obviously, the federal government will have to provide subsidies to developers and building contractors to put that up as well. What's left? Clothes and cheap electronics. The Asians slaves will grind away at that and their governments don't mind recycling the dollars back into Treasury Bonds. So that leaves transportation. A car. hmmmm. Somehow the government will have to intervene and make cheap used autos available to the working and non working poor. Of course, maintenance will be paid for by the gov't. Again, stimulating business. So where's the problem? As long as the Fed is allowed to create money ex nihilo, it's a closed system.

    And for the upper classes, the Fed will buy into the stock market when it threatens to stall. Money managers boom time. Everyone's happy.

  31. @Dmitry
    On emigration topic.

    It would be interesting to see chart of the longterm trend.

    But don't emigration figures from Germany, actually seem very low, for a country within free-movement bloc (EU)?

    As well as losing around 217,000 citizens due to emigration over the past two years

     

    So 108,500 are emigrating per year.

    German population - 82,800,000.

    At the same time, Germany is inside a free-movement bloc, that allows any German an effortless emigration to a choice of 28 EU countries.

    German citizen can be a pensioner in Spain, or go to work in a bank (or cafe) in London, without even needing to write any paperwork.

    These might be low emigration numbers (?), and reflecting low unemployment rates of German economy?

    By comparison, 12% of Poland's workforce has emigrated just to the UK after joining the EU.

    So 108,500 are emigrating per year.

    They’ve refined the way they count emigration, so about 140 000 German citizens left Germany in 2015 (more of less similar numbers in the years before that) and due to recalculations the number has jumped to ~280 000 German citizens emigrating in 2016.

    Here’s an amusing article on the topic: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article175104943/Abwanderung-Migrationsforscher-sieht-keinen-Grund-zur-Sorge.html?zanpid=11459_1527159215_2832a641aa47f8f7e2631eb7a1bcbb66 (Google translate does a well enough job)

    Some excerpts:

    Welt: The migration loss of 135,000 and the 880,000 deceased citizens in 2016, however, were compared to only 600,000 births of mothers with German citizenship. So, so to speak, the country has lost a net 400,000 citizens in just one year. Does society sustain such a severe shrinking of permanent workforce?

    Erlinghagen: Overall, the population in Germany is currently not shrinking – but growing. A distinction between population with German citizenship or without makes little sense from a socio-political point of view. But if you want to focus on German citizens, then I have pointed out that we have naturalizations on a similar scale as migrations.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It's one of the main design goals of the EU - to increase volume of both immigration/emigration.

    EU citizens are supposedly to effortlessly circulate between different EU states, depending on job opportunities.

    Economic advantage - supposedly is to increase labour mobility, if the whole EU is viewed as the single country. Obviously, there is some internal contradiction, when everyone still thinks in terms of a concept of immigration/emigration, to describe movement inside this EU "single country".

  32. @melanf

    It’s a brilliant plan I must admit.
     
    Well then, in the Czech Republic, Merkel's conspiracy is opposed by an even more cunning plan. I was in Prague at the beginning of February - the city was filled with a huge number of Chinese (in the crowd in the center of the city the Chinese were the majority at times).
    https://a.radikal.ru/a42/1810/0e/41d49b30d4bb.jpg
    They were mostly tourists, but there were also" local " Chinese (many shops were served by the Chinese).

    The second largest (among non-Czechs) were Russians. Prague was filled with huge crowds of tourists from Russia (including special tourists-gopniks. I'm not kidding, I actually saw a tourist group of gopniks). These tourists were served by local Russian-speaking (as it seemed to me mainly from Ukraine). Even some Chinese sellers in stores have learned Russian!

    But the Germans, contrary to my expectations there were very very few. The only notable German trace was a Vietnamese seller in a shop near our hotel - this seller stubbornly tried to speak to my wife in German

    ‘Local’ chinese are in fact vietnamesse settled during comunist era. They come to learn but after some time many of them (~40k) never returned to Vietnam. They are hardworking and nice people.

  33. @German_reader

    Where are those Germans going?
     
    Switzerland is quite popular (to the consternation of many Swiss).
    I don't really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally...I guess one can still make good money there though.
    Anyway, the 42% of children with migrant background in West Germany is somewhat mitigated by the fact that many of those must be other Europeans (according to the official definition I have a migrant background myself, lol). Still, the overall trend is of course catastrophic, it's hard not to feel total despair, especially since voting for the Greens (who are even worse open borders fanatics than Merkel!) now seems to be the cool thing to do for the degenerate bourgeoisie of this infantile lemming society.
    Merkel herself might possibly be soon overthrown, next Sunday there are elections in Hesse, and it looks grim for the CDU. Unfortunately her removal probably won't change anything, since her replacement will probably be just as bad...a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.

    I don’t really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere

    German doctors love US apparently.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    US doctors have a median salary 3x higher than German ones, so this is hardly surprising.

    Nice to know that if I ever need a doctor (not likely) that perhaps I can get a German one instead of an Indian one.

    And to those who think all is lost, I would like to remind you all of the situation in Spain in the Year of our Lord 722, when the Reconquista began.

    Germany's demographics are in many respects better than America. The Federal State Statistics Office states that 62% of children are of German ethnic origin. And as German_reader points out, many of the non-German children are still Europeans (though I was quite annoyed to meet someone of Spanish descent at a trade show with a German accent a few years ago).

    Only about half of births in America are now to "non-hispanic whites", and this category includes Jews and even Middle Eastern Mohammedans. And incidentally this still doesn't worry that much. The enemy, as always, is liberals.
  34. Maybe Russia should put the welcome mat out for Volga Germans as well as for the Boers.

    • Replies: @melanf

    Maybe Russia should put the welcome mat out for Volga Germans as well as for the Boers.
     
    No problem. In Russia, there are officially two German regions (in southern Siberia) with a total area of about 3,000 square kilometers (more than Luxembourg)
    http://www.rusdeutsch.ru/fotos/8300_b.jpg

    https://b.radikal.ru/b28/1810/56/b8f8599a1e7f.jpg

    But realistically speaking, this is an absolute utopia. The world has changed a lot and there are no more people who want to build farms on deserted lands. And if (for unknown reasons) the Germans begin to move to Russian cities - they quickly assimilated. It is believed that the "Russian Germans" live in Russia, but it is a fiction-today Russian Germans do not exist, but there are a couple of million Russian of German origin

    , @melanf
    in the order of humor: in the Russian Zen-Buddhist animated series Kikoriki, one of the characters (Penguin) is an emigrant from Germany (or rather from Liechtenstein)

    https://cs9.pikabu.ru/post_img/2017/09/04/5/150451166162194629.jpg
  35. This “42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background” seems way too be high.

    In Germany 14.5% out of total population is foreign born. So we may assume that 14.5% of mothers are foreign born. Let set x=(number of children in Germany)/(population of mothers in Germany). Then there are x*(42/14.5)=2.90*x children per foreign born mother versus x*(58/85.5)=0.678*x children per native born mother. This means that foreign born mothers have (2.90*x)/(0.678*x)=4.28 times more children than native born mothers on average. It can’t be.

    Let estimate the lower bound assuming mixed marriages.

    Assume that all migrant background children are Mischlinge, i.e., only father or mother are foreign born. Then we have 2*14.5%=29% mixed parents and 71% of native born parents. Then doing similar calculations we get 1.45*x children per mother from mixed marriage and 0.82*x of children per mother of native marriage. This gives us 1.8 times more children in mixed marriages. While the number feels good the assumption that all children are Mischlinge is not true. Only a small fraction of them is. So the number is between 1.8 times (100% Mischlinge) and 4.28 times (0% Mischlinge). I suspect that it closer to 15% Mischlinge which would produce still too high number.

    Germany has several millions Germans who were born in Russia, Romania and Poland. Are they counted in 14.5%? I am sure they are because Germany wants to wave the flag of friendly to immigrants country and boost the statistics to show how it is sacrificing itself on the altar of diversity.

    This 42% number looks like BS.

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @neutral
    What kind of number do you think it is?
    , @notanon

    This “42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background” seems way too be high.

     


    In Germany 14.5% out of total population is foreign born.
     
    you're assuming "migrant background" = foreign born

    migrant background would include 2nd or 3rd generation Turks for example
    , @Dmitry

    Germans who were born in Russia
     
    Really, these people are just Russians in the more general sense (or representatives of whichever part of USSR they lived in).

    Ones who immigrated to Germany, say they had quite a difficult assimilation culturally, not less than a permanent emigration to any other country.
    , @Mitleser
    No, you just do not know what are you talking about.

    Last year, 39,1% of all children were younger than 5 in the FRG had a migrant background.
    Among children who are 5-10 year old the share was 37,6%.
    42% is not a surprising number.
    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html
  36. @German_reader
    I don't intend to leave Germany (nobody would take me anyway), and frankly I'm sick of all the people who come up with things like "All is lost anyway, let's just move somewhere else and watch the end of Germany from afar!". In their own way they're just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.
    And you really need to stop reducing everything to economics.

    If Faith Goldy wins the Toronto election, will this have any impact on Europeans? Is this something that Europeans even know about and talk about?

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    No and no, LOL. As Anglin said, she's easily the hottest of the 'alt-right' thots, but that's all you can say for her.
    , @notanon
    it depends if the mainstream media report it - if they don't then the only people who will know will be the people already following the alt-news - i'd imagine they would see it as a sign of the tide shifting.
    , @Thorfinnsson
    Can she really win?

    I suspect she'd have more of an impact in the US and Canada.
    , @German_reader
    I have no idea who Faith Goldy is (have read the name somewhere...but don't know anything about her), so no, it isn't something known among European right-wingers (or at least German ones, but I think the same applies at least for the rest of continental Europe).
    Canada only figures as a supposed example of how to do immigration correctly...even many AfD politicians cite it as a positive example for a skills-based immigration system. It's not well known that Anglo-Canadians (or white Canadians in general) are on track for minority status within a few decades, and that there are huge issues with Canadian multiculturalism, free speech restrictions etc. Unfortunately many German right-wingers at least are still quite naive about this.
  37. @iffen
    Maybe Russia should put the welcome mat out for Volga Germans as well as for the Boers.

    Maybe Russia should put the welcome mat out for Volga Germans as well as for the Boers.

    No problem. In Russia, there are officially two German regions (in southern Siberia) with a total area of about 3,000 square kilometers (more than Luxembourg)
    But realistically speaking, this is an absolute utopia. The world has changed a lot and there are no more people who want to build farms on deserted lands. And if (for unknown reasons) the Germans begin to move to Russian cities – they quickly assimilated. It is believed that the “Russian Germans” live in Russia, but it is a fiction-today Russian Germans do not exist, but there are a couple of million Russian of German origin

    • Replies: @iffen
    there are no more people who want to build farms on deserted lands.


    We (the US) can spare some Mormons.
  38. @melanf

    Maybe Russia should put the welcome mat out for Volga Germans as well as for the Boers.
     
    No problem. In Russia, there are officially two German regions (in southern Siberia) with a total area of about 3,000 square kilometers (more than Luxembourg)
    http://www.rusdeutsch.ru/fotos/8300_b.jpg

    https://b.radikal.ru/b28/1810/56/b8f8599a1e7f.jpg

    But realistically speaking, this is an absolute utopia. The world has changed a lot and there are no more people who want to build farms on deserted lands. And if (for unknown reasons) the Germans begin to move to Russian cities - they quickly assimilated. It is believed that the "Russian Germans" live in Russia, but it is a fiction-today Russian Germans do not exist, but there are a couple of million Russian of German origin

    there are no more people who want to build farms on deserted lands.

    We (the US) can spare some Mormons.

  39. @German_reader
    I don't intend to leave Germany (nobody would take me anyway), and frankly I'm sick of all the people who come up with things like "All is lost anyway, let's just move somewhere else and watch the end of Germany from afar!". In their own way they're just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.
    And you really need to stop reducing everything to economics.

    Well, Dmitri is the archetypal Russian liberal living in America. I guess I live abroad too, but diaspora is really the default state for us. And Armenia is a far, far more dysfunctional shithole than Russia.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Calling "archetypal liberal" is not accurate. Obviously my views - correct or not - are not common with any group of people, and not archetypal.

    Also I don't live in America - I have two years experience in West Europe. Without doing too much doxing, my brother has worked in California, and has not recommended America as a country to live in (apart from job aspects). America is a cool country in my view - for vacations.

  40. @Peter Frost
    If Faith Goldy wins the Toronto election, will this have any impact on Europeans? Is this something that Europeans even know about and talk about?

    No and no, LOL. As Anglin said, she’s easily the hottest of the ‘alt-right’ thots, but that’s all you can say for her.

  41. Shouldn’t they stay and fight for their ethnic homeland? This isn’t the new world we’re talking about here. If China was being diversified I can see myself moving back there just to make it more Chinese.

    • Replies: @notanon
    yes
    , @iffen
    Shouldn’t they stay and fight for their ethnic homeland?


    You are underestimating the extent to which ethnic pride and nationalist solidarity has become declasse among Western "whites."

    , @DFH
    Just go home already
  42. @utu
    This "42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background" seems way too be high.

    In Germany 14.5% out of total population is foreign born. So we may assume that 14.5% of mothers are foreign born. Let set x=(number of children in Germany)/(population of mothers in Germany). Then there are x*(42/14.5)=2.90*x children per foreign born mother versus x*(58/85.5)=0.678*x children per native born mother. This means that foreign born mothers have (2.90*x)/(0.678*x)=4.28 times more children than native born mothers on average. It can't be.

    Let estimate the lower bound assuming mixed marriages.

    Assume that all migrant background children are Mischlinge, i.e., only father or mother are foreign born. Then we have 2*14.5%=29% mixed parents and 71% of native born parents. Then doing similar calculations we get 1.45*x children per mother from mixed marriage and 0.82*x of children per mother of native marriage. This gives us 1.8 times more children in mixed marriages. While the number feels good the assumption that all children are Mischlinge is not true. Only a small fraction of them is. So the number is between 1.8 times (100% Mischlinge) and 4.28 times (0% Mischlinge). I suspect that it closer to 15% Mischlinge which would produce still too high number.

    Germany has several millions Germans who were born in Russia, Romania and Poland. Are they counted in 14.5%? I am sure they are because Germany wants to wave the flag of friendly to immigrants country and boost the statistics to show how it is sacrificing itself on the altar of diversity.

    This 42% number looks like BS.

    What kind of number do you think it is?

    • Replies: @utu
    (a) All kids under age 6 who have one parent who was not born in Germany. For this case the number of 42% is too high.

    (b) All kids under age 6 who have one grandparent who was not born in Germany. This is unlikely as it would be hard to estimate though possible via statistical means but not directly.

    (c). All kids under age 6 who are not ethnic German. It would be very un PC to come up with this statistics.


    There 12 million foreign born in Germany. Some of them are from these groups:

    2-3 million ethnic Germans who were born outside Germany
    2 million Poles
    0.4 million Romanians
    0.6 million Spanish
    0.17 million Portuguese
    0.1 million Brits

    and

    4-5 million Turks
    0.4 (?) million Sub-Saharans

    and

    4.7 million Muslims

    In 2011 or 2013 it was found that Germany had actually 1.1 million less foreigners than they thought they had. They left w/o deregistering.
  43. @Beckow
    There is no plan. People with no children don't think about what will happen once they are gone. Merkel will live out her sad existence repeating 'we meant well', 'it seemed like the right thing to do ", "because, you know, we have values".

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way. The rest of Germany will gradually transform into non-Germany, my guess would be broken trains by 2030, no manufacturing skills by 2040, and by 2050 most people will switch away from the German language. They might even put up statues of saint Angela. It took few thousands of years to build, it could be gone in 2-3 generations.

    There is no plan.

    Clinton’s private speeches to the banks, the funding of political parties by the banking mafia throughout the West and the consistency of their media’s lies shows there is a plan – although I agree politicians like Merkel might not understand what that plan is.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    An ideological dream is not a plan. It would be like saying that Christians have a plan, 'die and go to heaven', or communist had a plan, 'abolish money'. Those are emotional defensive outbursts against reality, not plans.

    The current globalist plan is to mix up the populations, preferably dilute or eliminate the white groups, remove borders, unify languages, simplify logistics and financial transactions, and create privileged isolated enclaves for the selected few to supervise it. The key point is the desire to remove the (mostly) white European working-middle class people as a strong factor in the political life. They use two things: the post-modern ennui of the European population (caused by the previously achieved prosperity and some bloodshed) and the infinite desire of the 5 billion Third Worlders to escape their miserable fates.

    They have a goal, but as a 'plan' it is on the same level of rationality as 'let's abolish money and we will all live in earthly paradise'. Mixing up people leads to more conflict, not less. Mixing up connected vessels takes it down to the least common denominator, in wages, intelligence, culture - just test it in your garage.

    But you might be right that as a terminology it suffices; well, stupid people will have a stupid plan. Merkel fits right in.
  44. @utu
    This "42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background" seems way too be high.

    In Germany 14.5% out of total population is foreign born. So we may assume that 14.5% of mothers are foreign born. Let set x=(number of children in Germany)/(population of mothers in Germany). Then there are x*(42/14.5)=2.90*x children per foreign born mother versus x*(58/85.5)=0.678*x children per native born mother. This means that foreign born mothers have (2.90*x)/(0.678*x)=4.28 times more children than native born mothers on average. It can't be.

    Let estimate the lower bound assuming mixed marriages.

    Assume that all migrant background children are Mischlinge, i.e., only father or mother are foreign born. Then we have 2*14.5%=29% mixed parents and 71% of native born parents. Then doing similar calculations we get 1.45*x children per mother from mixed marriage and 0.82*x of children per mother of native marriage. This gives us 1.8 times more children in mixed marriages. While the number feels good the assumption that all children are Mischlinge is not true. Only a small fraction of them is. So the number is between 1.8 times (100% Mischlinge) and 4.28 times (0% Mischlinge). I suspect that it closer to 15% Mischlinge which would produce still too high number.

    Germany has several millions Germans who were born in Russia, Romania and Poland. Are they counted in 14.5%? I am sure they are because Germany wants to wave the flag of friendly to immigrants country and boost the statistics to show how it is sacrificing itself on the altar of diversity.

    This 42% number looks like BS.

    This “42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background” seems way too be high.

    In Germany 14.5% out of total population is foreign born.

    you’re assuming “migrant background” = foreign born

    migrant background would include 2nd or 3rd generation Turks for example

  45. @German_reader

    Where are those Germans going?
     
    Switzerland is quite popular (to the consternation of many Swiss).
    I don't really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally...I guess one can still make good money there though.
    Anyway, the 42% of children with migrant background in West Germany is somewhat mitigated by the fact that many of those must be other Europeans (according to the official definition I have a migrant background myself, lol). Still, the overall trend is of course catastrophic, it's hard not to feel total despair, especially since voting for the Greens (who are even worse open borders fanatics than Merkel!) now seems to be the cool thing to do for the degenerate bourgeoisie of this infantile lemming society.
    Merkel herself might possibly be soon overthrown, next Sunday there are elections in Hesse, and it looks grim for the CDU. Unfortunately her removal probably won't change anything, since her replacement will probably be just as bad...a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.

    Two months ago, during the Seehofer-crisis, all the main Dutch newspapers, who are nowadays mostly under control of the Clinton-faction within the deep state, were all writing that Jens Spahn would be the successor of Angela Merkel. I thought this was plausible since Spahn is a homosexual, he went trough the „Young Leader Program“ of the American Council for Germany and he even attended the Bilderberg conference last year. Laschet on the other hand only became minister-president of NRW by accident (implosion of the SPD). He is already in his late fifties, he is married and he even has children (nowadays a disadvantage). He also seems to have no backing from outside of Germany.

    • Replies: @notanon

    Jens Spahn
     
    there does seem to be an emerging pattern of them using a kind of identikit smooth bland "metrosexual" as their puppets (Blair, Obama, Macron etc)
    , @German_reader
    It's true that Spahn is well-connected with the Americans, he's on very friendly terms with Trump's homo ambassador Grennell (who knows what they're doing when they're meeting). And yes, he's been cited as a possible successor to Merkel. But Laschet has more of a home base than Spahn, NRW is the most populous German state after all. Another possible successor is Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, the general secretary of the CDU, and a kind of catholic Merkel clone with children. It's hard to tell, I can't pretend to understand what goes on in the mind of CDU members.
  46. @Yevardian
    That place has changed a lot, I don't recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.

    don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.

    In recent years, the Chinese began to travel EN masse to tourist trips. In Russia it is very noticeable – suddenly there were thick crowds of Chinese tourists. Now in St. Petersburg every fifth tourist is Chinese, and at the airports make announcements in Chinese. In the recent past, there were no Chinese tourists at all.

  47. @Peter Frost
    If Faith Goldy wins the Toronto election, will this have any impact on Europeans? Is this something that Europeans even know about and talk about?

    it depends if the mainstream media report it – if they don’t then the only people who will know will be the people already following the alt-news – i’d imagine they would see it as a sign of the tide shifting.

  48. @Jason Liu
    Shouldn't they stay and fight for their ethnic homeland? This isn't the new world we're talking about here. If China was being diversified I can see myself moving back there just to make it more Chinese.

    yes

  49. @utu

    https://brnodaily.cz/2018/02/15/breaking-news/tourism-to-czech-republic-up-9-1-in-2017/
    České noviny (Czech News, Feb. 8,2018) reports that while every region of the Czech Republic experienced an increase in tourism last year, the largest increase was in South Moravia, which witnessed a 14.6 percent spike in the number of visitors compared with 2016.

    Of these 20.1 million tourists nationwide, roughly half (10.2 million) were visiting from abroad, with the Germans (1.95 million), Slovaks (688,000) and Poles (578,000) being the most numerous.

    Russian tourism to the Czech Republic increased by 35.3 percent from the previous year, making them the fourth most numerous nationality to visit.

    There was also a large increase in tourism from East Asian nations such as China, South Korea, and Taiwan.
     

    Of these 20.1 million tourists nationwide, roughly half (10.2 million) were visiting from abroad, with the Germans (1.95 million), Slovaks (688,000) and Poles (578,000) being the most numerous.

    When I was in Prague, the number of Chinese and Russian tourists clearly exceeded the number of German tourists (аbout Slovaks and Рoles can not say, because I can not distinguish them from the Czechs). Perhaps the reason is the season of the year, but perhaps the majority of German tourists just come to the border cities of the Czech Republic for shopping. Such quasitourism is flourishing around the Russian border with Finland

    • Replies: @Matra
    I stayed at a Prague hotel a couple of years ago that had so many Germans they played German radio in the breakfast room. I didn't hear another language during my stay, other than the receptionist speaking English to me. This was outside the city centre. First time visitors try to stay near the city centre but those more familiar with the place they are visiting are more likely to be comfortable staying in the outskirts or in a regular 'authentic' neighbourhood. I'm guessing that Germans being more familiar with Prague than most foreigners and more likely to drive there, thus needing parking space, are also more likely to stay in off the beaten track hotels away from the old town so they might not be as visible as, say, groups of 30 Englishmen on the piss.

    In addition to the Vietnamese there are - used to be? - lots of people from ex-Soviet Central Asia. They ran the internet cafes and some other service-oriented businesses off Wenceslas Square. Just about all the internet cafes are gone now.
  50. @JRB
    Two months ago, during the Seehofer-crisis, all the main Dutch newspapers, who are nowadays mostly under control of the Clinton-faction within the deep state, were all writing that Jens Spahn would be the successor of Angela Merkel. I thought this was plausible since Spahn is a homosexual, he went trough the „Young Leader Program“ of the American Council for Germany and he even attended the Bilderberg conference last year. Laschet on the other hand only became minister-president of NRW by accident (implosion of the SPD). He is already in his late fifties, he is married and he even has children (nowadays a disadvantage). He also seems to have no backing from outside of Germany.

    Jens Spahn

    there does seem to be an emerging pattern of them using a kind of identikit smooth bland “metrosexual” as their puppets (Blair, Obama, Macron etc)

  51. @German_reader
    I don't intend to leave Germany (nobody would take me anyway), and frankly I'm sick of all the people who come up with things like "All is lost anyway, let's just move somewhere else and watch the end of Germany from afar!". In their own way they're just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.
    And you really need to stop reducing everything to economics.

    In their own way they’re just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.

    Some might consider it a tactical retreat. In Spain, during the Islamic conquest, Christians fled North. This positive population growth helped facilitate the Reconquista.

    It is easier to have European children in less enriched areas, especially the larger that they are – nations easiest. Believe me, normal people speak of this in code, perhaps even subconsciously all the time in the US. They speak of “good schools.” What happens is that housing costs shoot way up because people try to get out of the enriched areas and price discrimination is the only legal means of segregation. Most jobs are in the city – they control the cities, so commute is an issue and that creates scarcity.

    What is really worrying though, I see black faces increasingly in the middle of the countryside. Both in the US and Europe.

    • Replies: @Pericles

    What is really worrying though, I see black faces increasingly in the middle of the countryside. Both in the US and Europe.

     

    I visited Kiruna a few years ago. Behind the counter of the pizza joint was a negro.

    Please note the location: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna
  52. @neutral
    What kind of number do you think it is?

    (a) All kids under age 6 who have one parent who was not born in Germany. For this case the number of 42% is too high.

    (b) All kids under age 6 who have one grandparent who was not born in Germany. This is unlikely as it would be hard to estimate though possible via statistical means but not directly.

    (c). All kids under age 6 who are not ethnic German. It would be very un PC to come up with this statistics.

    There 12 million foreign born in Germany. Some of them are from these groups:

    2-3 million ethnic Germans who were born outside Germany
    2 million Poles
    0.4 million Romanians
    0.6 million Spanish
    0.17 million Portuguese
    0.1 million Brits

    and

    4-5 million Turks
    0.4 (?) million Sub-Saharans

    and

    4.7 million Muslims

    In 2011 or 2013 it was found that Germany had actually 1.1 million less foreigners than they thought they had. They left w/o deregistering.

    • Replies: @Talha

    In 2011 or 2013 it was found that Germany had actually 1.1 million less foreigners than they thought they had. They left w/o deregistering.
     
    Not surprising actually. They could probably accomplish this faster by doubling-down on the hyper-homo-mania. Especially things like requiring students to write Valentine's Day letters to their same-sex class mates, requiring them to go to dances with the same gender, etc.

    If students were required to participate in this kind of thing in the US and we couldn't have our own private schools, my family would easily think of leaving without a fuss.

    Peace.
  53. @utu
    This "42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background" seems way too be high.

    In Germany 14.5% out of total population is foreign born. So we may assume that 14.5% of mothers are foreign born. Let set x=(number of children in Germany)/(population of mothers in Germany). Then there are x*(42/14.5)=2.90*x children per foreign born mother versus x*(58/85.5)=0.678*x children per native born mother. This means that foreign born mothers have (2.90*x)/(0.678*x)=4.28 times more children than native born mothers on average. It can't be.

    Let estimate the lower bound assuming mixed marriages.

    Assume that all migrant background children are Mischlinge, i.e., only father or mother are foreign born. Then we have 2*14.5%=29% mixed parents and 71% of native born parents. Then doing similar calculations we get 1.45*x children per mother from mixed marriage and 0.82*x of children per mother of native marriage. This gives us 1.8 times more children in mixed marriages. While the number feels good the assumption that all children are Mischlinge is not true. Only a small fraction of them is. So the number is between 1.8 times (100% Mischlinge) and 4.28 times (0% Mischlinge). I suspect that it closer to 15% Mischlinge which would produce still too high number.

    Germany has several millions Germans who were born in Russia, Romania and Poland. Are they counted in 14.5%? I am sure they are because Germany wants to wave the flag of friendly to immigrants country and boost the statistics to show how it is sacrificing itself on the altar of diversity.

    This 42% number looks like BS.

    Germans who were born in Russia

    Really, these people are just Russians in the more general sense (or representatives of whichever part of USSR they lived in).

    Ones who immigrated to Germany, say they had quite a difficult assimilation culturally, not less than a permanent emigration to any other country.

    • Replies: @utu

    not less than a permanent emigration to any other country
     
    Hard to say because they can't know it form their own experience. Then they were eligible for citizenship on arrival that should count as a plus. But it is possible that they encountered negative reaction just like some Russian Jews in Israel whose ethnicity is questioned and their opportunism is insinuated.
  54. @German_reader
    I don't intend to leave Germany (nobody would take me anyway), and frankly I'm sick of all the people who come up with things like "All is lost anyway, let's just move somewhere else and watch the end of Germany from afar!". In their own way they're just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.
    And you really need to stop reducing everything to economics.

    Well, perhaps I am not knowledgeable about Germans and Swiss – but I cannot imagine it would be a very difficult, or distant, emigration (except in terms of paperwork) for a German to just travel over a border to another majority German speaking country (although one with the highest salaries and living standard in the world, as well as more sensible political affairs).

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    The Swiss-Germans don't consider themselves to be German the way Austrians do (or did at any rate).

    They will even hurl ethnic slurs at Germans, whom they consider to be inferior. My brother was once a victim of this owing mistaken identification (he speaks German).

    Anyone within the Schengen area can move to Switzerland, but becoming a Swiss citizen is actually extraordinarily difficult.

    , @German_reader
    Swiss aren't just Germans with a weird dialect, they're clearly their own nation with a different mentality, much more so than Austrians.
    And many of them resent the influx of Germans coming to Switzerland...Germans aren't popular there. Even years ago (in 2011), I heard stories about Germans in Switzerland who found letters of the sort "Next time we'll get you" in their mail.
  55. @melanf

    Of these 20.1 million tourists nationwide, roughly half (10.2 million) were visiting from abroad, with the Germans (1.95 million), Slovaks (688,000) and Poles (578,000) being the most numerous.
     
    When I was in Prague, the number of Chinese and Russian tourists clearly exceeded the number of German tourists (аbout Slovaks and Рoles can not say, because I can not distinguish them from the Czechs). Perhaps the reason is the season of the year, but perhaps the majority of German tourists just come to the border cities of the Czech Republic for shopping. Such quasitourism is flourishing around the Russian border with Finland

    I stayed at a Prague hotel a couple of years ago that had so many Germans they played German radio in the breakfast room. I didn’t hear another language during my stay, other than the receptionist speaking English to me. This was outside the city centre. First time visitors try to stay near the city centre but those more familiar with the place they are visiting are more likely to be comfortable staying in the outskirts or in a regular ‘authentic’ neighbourhood. I’m guessing that Germans being more familiar with Prague than most foreigners and more likely to drive there, thus needing parking space, are also more likely to stay in off the beaten track hotels away from the old town so they might not be as visible as, say, groups of 30 Englishmen on the piss.

    In addition to the Vietnamese there are – used to be? – lots of people from ex-Soviet Central Asia. They ran the internet cafes and some other service-oriented businesses off Wenceslas Square. Just about all the internet cafes are gone now.

  56. @Jason Liu
    Shouldn't they stay and fight for their ethnic homeland? This isn't the new world we're talking about here. If China was being diversified I can see myself moving back there just to make it more Chinese.

    Shouldn’t they stay and fight for their ethnic homeland?

    You are underestimating the extent to which ethnic pride and nationalist solidarity has become declasse among Western “whites.”

  57. @Yevardian
    Well, Dmitri is the archetypal Russian liberal living in America. I guess I live abroad too, but diaspora is really the default state for us. And Armenia is a far, far more dysfunctional shithole than Russia.

    Calling “archetypal liberal” is not accurate. Obviously my views – correct or not – are not common with any group of people, and not archetypal.

    Also I don’t live in America – I have two years experience in West Europe. Without doing too much doxing, my brother has worked in California, and has not recommended America as a country to live in (apart from job aspects). America is a cool country in my view – for vacations.

    • Replies: @songbird

    my brother has worked in California, and has not recommended America as a country to live in
     
    There's been a general exodus of whites from California, arguably because the state has turned. Some still like to live there though.
  58. @iffen
    Maybe Russia should put the welcome mat out for Volga Germans as well as for the Boers.

    in the order of humor: in the Russian Zen-Buddhist animated series Kikoriki, one of the characters (Penguin) is an emigrant from Germany (or rather from Liechtenstein)

  59. @Jason Liu
    Shouldn't they stay and fight for their ethnic homeland? This isn't the new world we're talking about here. If China was being diversified I can see myself moving back there just to make it more Chinese.

    Just go home already

  60. @Anon

    I don’t really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere
     
    German doctors love US apparently.

    US doctors have a median salary 3x higher than German ones, so this is hardly surprising.

    Nice to know that if I ever need a doctor (not likely) that perhaps I can get a German one instead of an Indian one.

    And to those who think all is lost, I would like to remind you all of the situation in Spain in the Year of our Lord 722, when the Reconquista began.

    Germany’s demographics are in many respects better than America. The Federal State Statistics Office states that 62% of children are of German ethnic origin. And as German_reader points out, many of the non-German children are still Europeans (though I was quite annoyed to meet someone of Spanish descent at a trade show with a German accent a few years ago).

    Only about half of births in America are now to “non-hispanic whites”, and this category includes Jews and even Middle Eastern Mohammedans. And incidentally this still doesn’t worry that much. The enemy, as always, is liberals.

    • Replies: @republic
    Non Hispanic white population is now 56%
  61. @Peter Frost
    If Faith Goldy wins the Toronto election, will this have any impact on Europeans? Is this something that Europeans even know about and talk about?

    Can she really win?

    I suspect she’d have more of an impact in the US and Canada.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Of course she can...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iJqp0sNVCU

    For the love of...Is there just one of these people that gets coverage and publicity that does not whore for Israel? I'm just asking for one - you know, just one...? Please?

    Peace.
    , @Peter Frost
    I live in a country where the traditional sources of information are unreliable. Polling firms have repeatedly estimated Faith Goldy's support at 3% or 6%. To win, she has to get a plurality, probably about 40% of the votes. So it seems like she doesn't have a chance.

    And yet those same polls show that a third of all voters are undecided. That's an ususually high proportion, and I suspect that most of those undecideds are people who are afraid to state their voting intentions. It also bothers me that so many employees of these polling firms openly express their disdain for Faith. Why should anyone share their voting intentions under such conditions?

    For what it's worth I believe she can win. That's simply a feeling, and I have no scientific data to back it. Nonetheless, it seems to me that a marginal "extremist" would not be getting support from Torontonians who are thoroughly post-national, i.e., "pozzed." Yet she is gaining support even in that demographic.

    Is there just one of these people that gets coverage and publicity that does not whore for Israel?

    If you must use that kind of terminology you can say she's a "whore" for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands. One reason is their lower fertility rate. A bigger reason, however, is the attitude of their Muslim neighbors—not all of them, or even a majority, but a large minority. About a third of all Muslims want to see Christians disappear in the near future. I've talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians, and they all say the same thing: the government cannot easily prosecute people who terrorize Christians because the average Muslim will not denounce them -- partly out of fear, and partly out of a perverse sense of solidarity.

  62. @A.A.

    So 108,500 are emigrating per year.
     
    They've refined the way they count emigration, so about 140 000 German citizens left Germany in 2015 (more of less similar numbers in the years before that) and due to recalculations the number has jumped to ~280 000 German citizens emigrating in 2016.

    Here's an amusing article on the topic: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article175104943/Abwanderung-Migrationsforscher-sieht-keinen-Grund-zur-Sorge.html?zanpid=11459_1527159215_2832a641aa47f8f7e2631eb7a1bcbb66 (Google translate does a well enough job)

    Some excerpts:

    Welt: The migration loss of 135,000 and the 880,000 deceased citizens in 2016, however, were compared to only 600,000 births of mothers with German citizenship. So, so to speak, the country has lost a net 400,000 citizens in just one year. Does society sustain such a severe shrinking of permanent workforce?

    Erlinghagen: Overall, the population in Germany is currently not shrinking - but growing. A distinction between population with German citizenship or without makes little sense from a socio-political point of view. But if you want to focus on German citizens, then I have pointed out that we have naturalizations on a similar scale as migrations.

    It’s one of the main design goals of the EU – to increase volume of both immigration/emigration.

    EU citizens are supposedly to effortlessly circulate between different EU states, depending on job opportunities.

    Economic advantage – supposedly is to increase labour mobility, if the whole EU is viewed as the single country. Obviously, there is some internal contradiction, when everyone still thinks in terms of a concept of immigration/emigration, to describe movement inside this EU “single country”.

  63. @Dmitry
    Well, perhaps I am not knowledgeable about Germans and Swiss - but I cannot imagine it would be a very difficult, or distant, emigration (except in terms of paperwork) for a German to just travel over a border to another majority German speaking country (although one with the highest salaries and living standard in the world, as well as more sensible political affairs).

    The Swiss-Germans don’t consider themselves to be German the way Austrians do (or did at any rate).

    They will even hurl ethnic slurs at Germans, whom they consider to be inferior. My brother was once a victim of this owing mistaken identification (he speaks German).

    Anyone within the Schengen area can move to Switzerland, but becoming a Swiss citizen is actually extraordinarily difficult.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    When visiting Zurich, I had a friendly social chat with some engineers. They all looked at me with suspicion when I expressed some admiration for a non-Germanic but still Swiss sports star. Excuse my faux pas, if you'll permit the expression.
  64. @German_reader

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way.
     
    It would be great if that would happen, I would immediately move there and be a supporter of armed secession if necessary. But tbh it looks even grim for Bavaria, with major cities like Munich and Nuremberg being less and less German, the CSU is pretty cucked as well, with many of their top politicians claiming that their poor results in the recent elections were due to excessive criticism of Merkel and too much focus on the immigration and asylum issue (repellent to the Christian "refugees welcome" crowd! One mustn't forget that the Catholic church is strongly in favour of Merkel's policy...cardinal Reinhard Marx and the archbishop of Paderborn just donated 50 000 Euros each to one of those NGOs taking up Africans in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe). The CSU people have understood nothing, and in the end they only care about their own power and patronage networks anyway.
    The East is more militant, but it's also demographically weak and doesn't have much of a voice in the national debate which is dominated by totally brainwashed West Germans.

    The thing about West Germans losing their mojo is scary. Nations lost wars before, nations were demonised before and they recovered. The lack of resilience displayed in Germany in the last 10-20 years is historically unique, something else might be going on. I think that Germany was wrong in WWII, it triggered a European cataclysm without thinking through the consequences, the obsession with wiping out its eastern neighbours was criminal. But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn’t black and white. Why can’t Germans move on and live with today’s realities?

    I can see the Church is a problem. There has always been a self-destructive element in Christianity, it is almost designed to be counter-evolutionary for its adherents. But the music is nice and one has to have a routine and some rituals during those inevitable life events. Either the church people have started the take the mushy verbiage in their sacred texts too seriously, or there are external forces using them. Maybe both.

    I have faith in large parts of Germany, well mostly the easterners, but it has to start with demographic strength. That would create its own dynamic, new attitudes, self-confidence. For that one has to have leaders invested in the future – and Merkel is the exact opposite.

    • Replies: @songbird
    I don't think it was just them losing the war. I think de-Nazification became a kind of living political organism that got out of control, and spread its tentacles into other countries.
    , @Mitleser

    But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn’t black and white. Why can’t Germans move on and live with today’s realities?
     
    Because many Germans want to get rid off Germany in favor of EUrope.

    The “permissive consensus” that for several decades allowed European integration to proceed unimpeded was stronger in Germany than elsewhere, except perhaps in Italy.6 Up to today, “Europe”7 carries something like a sacred aura in Germany, too elevated to be linked to dirty concepts like national interest. The main strongholds of German Europeanism are the educated middle classes and the young generation, for whom Europe stands for all that is both virtuous and pleasant—from peace, human rights, tolerance, and “openness” to an international labor market and convenient travel across borders. Reflecting the difficulties of identifying with a German nation after 1945, German pro-European sentiment has long considered it self-evident that the EU is ultimately the vessel into which European nations can give up their separate states, identities, and interests. While other member states may have joined the EU to restore or preserve their national sovereignty,8 Germany is in the EU to get rid of it, firmly believing that this holds true for all others as well.
     
    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/05/europe-under-merkel-iv-balance-of-impotence/

    How do you expect such people to defend their old nation?
    They want to do the opposite and oppose pro-Germans.

    In a video interview with Informr, the new leader of the Green Party, Robert Habeck, made controversial remarks denying the notion of a German people, newspaper Junge Freiheit reports.

    When asked about the concept of betrayal of the people, Habeck says:

    “That’s a Nazi concept. There is no people, in consequence, there cannot be a treason of the people. It’s a statement of anger that can be really divisive, discriminatory and pernicious.”
     
    https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/05/germans-as-a-people-do-not-exist-so-they-cannot-be-betrayed-says-green-party-leader/
    , @German_reader

    Why can’t Germans move on and live with today’s realities?
     
    I don't really understand it either. It clearly wasn't an inevitable consequence of WW2, East Germany proves that. Probably too much wealth and the demented political culture that evolved in the federal republic, with the Basic law and its suicidal parts about the right to asylum being treated as if it were part of the Ten commandments. But it's not like Germany is totally unique, you have much the same story in many other Western countries as well.
  65. @Dmitry
    Calling "archetypal liberal" is not accurate. Obviously my views - correct or not - are not common with any group of people, and not archetypal.

    Also I don't live in America - I have two years experience in West Europe. Without doing too much doxing, my brother has worked in California, and has not recommended America as a country to live in (apart from job aspects). America is a cool country in my view - for vacations.

    my brother has worked in California, and has not recommended America as a country to live in

    There’s been a general exodus of whites from California, arguably because the state has turned. Some still like to live there though.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    I am told, problem of living in America, is more just boring social life for young people, and a very different culture.

    Job situation is good, and it's not dangerous in his area.

  66. @songbird

    In their own way they’re just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.
     
    Some might consider it a tactical retreat. In Spain, during the Islamic conquest, Christians fled North. This positive population growth helped facilitate the Reconquista.

    It is easier to have European children in less enriched areas, especially the larger that they are - nations easiest. Believe me, normal people speak of this in code, perhaps even subconsciously all the time in the US. They speak of "good schools." What happens is that housing costs shoot way up because people try to get out of the enriched areas and price discrimination is the only legal means of segregation. Most jobs are in the city - they control the cities, so commute is an issue and that creates scarcity.

    What is really worrying though, I see black faces increasingly in the middle of the countryside. Both in the US and Europe.

    What is really worrying though, I see black faces increasingly in the middle of the countryside. Both in the US and Europe.

    I visited Kiruna a few years ago. Behind the counter of the pizza joint was a negro.

    Please note the location: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna

    • Replies: @songbird
    I believe Sweden has a kind of natural out - at least for blacks. Turn off the heat, and help facilitate them leaving, and they will leave in a hurry, IMO.

    Unfortunately I don't think it will be as easy in more temperate or Southern areas of Europe.
  67. Russia should be making a play for these krauts. Or maybe I’m crazy, maybe Germans don’t want to move there. Russians seem rather Teutophile to me, so many Russians learn German.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
    Yes, Russians still love Germany for some inexplicable reason, it's definitely not reciprocated in the slightest.
  68. @Beckow
    The thing about West Germans losing their mojo is scary. Nations lost wars before, nations were demonised before and they recovered. The lack of resilience displayed in Germany in the last 10-20 years is historically unique, something else might be going on. I think that Germany was wrong in WWII, it triggered a European cataclysm without thinking through the consequences, the obsession with wiping out its eastern neighbours was criminal. But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn't black and white. Why can't Germans move on and live with today's realities?

    I can see the Church is a problem. There has always been a self-destructive element in Christianity, it is almost designed to be counter-evolutionary for its adherents. But the music is nice and one has to have a routine and some rituals during those inevitable life events. Either the church people have started the take the mushy verbiage in their sacred texts too seriously, or there are external forces using them. Maybe both.

    I have faith in large parts of Germany, well mostly the easterners, but it has to start with demographic strength. That would create its own dynamic, new attitudes, self-confidence. For that one has to have leaders invested in the future - and Merkel is the exact opposite.

    I don’t think it was just them losing the war. I think de-Nazification became a kind of living political organism that got out of control, and spread its tentacles into other countries.

  69. @Thorfinnsson
    The Swiss-Germans don't consider themselves to be German the way Austrians do (or did at any rate).

    They will even hurl ethnic slurs at Germans, whom they consider to be inferior. My brother was once a victim of this owing mistaken identification (he speaks German).

    Anyone within the Schengen area can move to Switzerland, but becoming a Swiss citizen is actually extraordinarily difficult.

    When visiting Zurich, I had a friendly social chat with some engineers. They all looked at me with suspicion when I expressed some admiration for a non-Germanic but still Swiss sports star. Excuse my faux pas, if you’ll permit the expression.

  70. @notanon

    There is no plan.
     
    Clinton's private speeches to the banks, the funding of political parties by the banking mafia throughout the West and the consistency of their media's lies shows there is a plan - although I agree politicians like Merkel might not understand what that plan is.

    An ideological dream is not a plan. It would be like saying that Christians have a plan, ‘die and go to heaven‘, or communist had a plan, ‘abolish money‘. Those are emotional defensive outbursts against reality, not plans.

    The current globalist plan is to mix up the populations, preferably dilute or eliminate the white groups, remove borders, unify languages, simplify logistics and financial transactions, and create privileged isolated enclaves for the selected few to supervise it. The key point is the desire to remove the (mostly) white European working-middle class people as a strong factor in the political life. They use two things: the post-modern ennui of the European population (caused by the previously achieved prosperity and some bloodshed) and the infinite desire of the 5 billion Third Worlders to escape their miserable fates.

    They have a goal, but as a ‘plan‘ it is on the same level of rationality as ‘let’s abolish money and we will all live in earthly paradise‘. Mixing up people leads to more conflict, not less. Mixing up connected vessels takes it down to the least common denominator, in wages, intelligence, culture – just test it in your garage.

    But you might be right that as a terminology it suffices; well, stupid people will have a stupid plan. Merkel fits right in.

    • Replies: @notanon

    They have a goal, but as a ‘plan‘ it is on the same level of rationality as ‘let’s abolish money and we will all live in earthly paradise‘. Mixing up people leads to more conflict, not less.
     
    that's my point - for the people *funding* globalism that is the plan: 1) destroy high IQ populations and 2) spread maximum conflict for divide and rule. it's a consciously evil plan. they know the end result will be very bad but (they think) not for them (and if it does turn out bad for them they'll just move to China).

    i'm saying it's possible politicians like Merkel are puppets who genuinely believe the media's dishonest multicult utopia version of the globalist plan.
    , @Buster Keaton’s Stunt Double

    An ideological dream is not a plan. It would be like saying that Christians have a plan, ‘die and go to heaven‘, or communist had a plan, ‘abolish money‘.
     
    Or that Beckow has a plan: “engage in petty, anti-Christian ankle-biting.” ;)

    Those are emotional defensive outbursts against reality, not plans.
     
    Pot, kettle, etc, etc.
  71. @Pericles

    What is really worrying though, I see black faces increasingly in the middle of the countryside. Both in the US and Europe.

     

    I visited Kiruna a few years ago. Behind the counter of the pizza joint was a negro.

    Please note the location: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna

    I believe Sweden has a kind of natural out – at least for blacks. Turn off the heat, and help facilitate them leaving, and they will leave in a hurry, IMO.

    Unfortunately I don’t think it will be as easy in more temperate or Southern areas of Europe.

  72. @neutral

    That place has changed a lot, I don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.
     
    I wonder what the average Chinaman is thinking when they visit such places, do they really want to pay a lot to go to these places to see other Chinamen. Even worse than that, what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris, they paid a lot to blacks and browns.

    “what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris”

    Not sure they like it too much.

    https://www.thelocal.fr/20171109/french-robbers-prey-on-big-spending-chinese-tourists-in-romantic-paris

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-robbery-china/china-urges-france-to-protect-chinese-tourists-after-group-of-40-robbed-idUSKBN1D60YQ

    “BEIJING (Reuters) – China urged France on Monday to take more effective measures to ensure the safety of its nationals visiting the country, after a group of 40 Chinese tourists was tear-gassed and robbed in Paris.”

    However the Chinese are fighting back.

    https://www.vice.com/da/article/gqnzxj/are-chinese-tourists-the-worst-tourists-in-the-world

    “Outside the Louvre in Paris, there’s a sign in Mandarin which tells visitors not to defecate in the surrounding grounds. This sign is only written in Mandarin Chinese.”

    • Replies: @republic
    Chinese are the worst tourists in the world
  73. @Thorfinnsson
    Can she really win?

    I suspect she'd have more of an impact in the US and Canada.

    Of course she can…

    For the love of…Is there just one of these people that gets coverage and publicity that does not whore for Israel? I’m just asking for one – you know, just one…? Please?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    Faith Goldy hasn't worked for The Rebel for some time now.

    She's not getting much coverage either. She's been banned from the mayoral debates (despite polling in the top #3), and Canadian TV is refusing to run the ads she bought (in violation of Canadian law). Just yesterday Google suspended her AdWords campaign for spurious reasons.

    As a result she's run a guerrilla mayoral campaign. I'm not Canadian let alone Torontonian, so I couldn't tell you how successful she's been.
  74. @utu
    (a) All kids under age 6 who have one parent who was not born in Germany. For this case the number of 42% is too high.

    (b) All kids under age 6 who have one grandparent who was not born in Germany. This is unlikely as it would be hard to estimate though possible via statistical means but not directly.

    (c). All kids under age 6 who are not ethnic German. It would be very un PC to come up with this statistics.


    There 12 million foreign born in Germany. Some of them are from these groups:

    2-3 million ethnic Germans who were born outside Germany
    2 million Poles
    0.4 million Romanians
    0.6 million Spanish
    0.17 million Portuguese
    0.1 million Brits

    and

    4-5 million Turks
    0.4 (?) million Sub-Saharans

    and

    4.7 million Muslims

    In 2011 or 2013 it was found that Germany had actually 1.1 million less foreigners than they thought they had. They left w/o deregistering.

    In 2011 or 2013 it was found that Germany had actually 1.1 million less foreigners than they thought they had. They left w/o deregistering.

    Not surprising actually. They could probably accomplish this faster by doubling-down on the hyper-homo-mania. Especially things like requiring students to write Valentine’s Day letters to their same-sex class mates, requiring them to go to dances with the same gender, etc.

    If students were required to participate in this kind of thing in the US and we couldn’t have our own private schools, my family would easily think of leaving without a fuss.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @DFH
    I doubt that sort of indoctrination would actually work, it would probably be counter-productive if anything. School's actual ability to coerce a large number of students is quite limited, especially if they don't have the support of the childrens' parents.
    , @German_reader

    They could probably accomplish this faster by doubling-down on the hyper-homo-mania.
     
    Islamophilia is much more heavily promoted in Germany than any homo stuff.
  75. @Talha
    Of course she can...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iJqp0sNVCU

    For the love of...Is there just one of these people that gets coverage and publicity that does not whore for Israel? I'm just asking for one - you know, just one...? Please?

    Peace.

    Faith Goldy hasn’t worked for The Rebel for some time now.

    She’s not getting much coverage either. She’s been banned from the mayoral debates (despite polling in the top #3), and Canadian TV is refusing to run the ads she bought (in violation of Canadian law). Just yesterday Google suspended her AdWords campaign for spurious reasons.

    As a result she’s run a guerrilla mayoral campaign. I’m not Canadian let alone Torontonian, so I couldn’t tell you how successful she’s been.

    • Replies: @Talha

    Faith Goldy hasn’t worked for The Rebel for some time now.
     
    Hmmmm - OK - because she was doing propaganda for them at least in 2017 - so I guess it depends on the definition of "some time".

    Just yesterday Google suspended her AdWords campaign for spurious reasons.
     
    Interesting.

    As a result she’s run a guerrilla mayoral campaign.
     
    Definitely an interesting bid. Out of the establishment, pretty stoked about Israel, seems her only platform is; no more immigrants. And she seems not to have any real qualifications other than being some kind of a media personality...hell, she could run for POTUS!

    Peace.
    , @Talha
    And of course...looked up her profile on Wikipedia - looks like she is almost-thirty and unmarried and no kids.

    Of course, actually becoming the Mayor of Toronto will likely make her too busy to become a mother and thus facilitate the likelihood of her becoming a genetic dead-end...(sigh) lead by example, I guess.

    Peace.

  76. @utu
    This "42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background" seems way too be high.

    In Germany 14.5% out of total population is foreign born. So we may assume that 14.5% of mothers are foreign born. Let set x=(number of children in Germany)/(population of mothers in Germany). Then there are x*(42/14.5)=2.90*x children per foreign born mother versus x*(58/85.5)=0.678*x children per native born mother. This means that foreign born mothers have (2.90*x)/(0.678*x)=4.28 times more children than native born mothers on average. It can't be.

    Let estimate the lower bound assuming mixed marriages.

    Assume that all migrant background children are Mischlinge, i.e., only father or mother are foreign born. Then we have 2*14.5%=29% mixed parents and 71% of native born parents. Then doing similar calculations we get 1.45*x children per mother from mixed marriage and 0.82*x of children per mother of native marriage. This gives us 1.8 times more children in mixed marriages. While the number feels good the assumption that all children are Mischlinge is not true. Only a small fraction of them is. So the number is between 1.8 times (100% Mischlinge) and 4.28 times (0% Mischlinge). I suspect that it closer to 15% Mischlinge which would produce still too high number.

    Germany has several millions Germans who were born in Russia, Romania and Poland. Are they counted in 14.5%? I am sure they are because Germany wants to wave the flag of friendly to immigrants country and boost the statistics to show how it is sacrificing itself on the altar of diversity.

    This 42% number looks like BS.

    No, you just do not know what are you talking about.

    Last year, 39,1% of all children were younger than 5 in the FRG had a migrant background.
    Among children who are 5-10 year old the share was 37,6%.
    42% is not a surprising number.

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    • Replies: @utu
    Perhaps. But I think the key is the definition of "migrant background." It clearly can't be as I shown somebody whose one of parents was born abroad. It must be broader, multigenerational. Something akin to Nuremberg laws.

    Perhaps our Nazi_reader could explain.
  77. @Talha

    In 2011 or 2013 it was found that Germany had actually 1.1 million less foreigners than they thought they had. They left w/o deregistering.
     
    Not surprising actually. They could probably accomplish this faster by doubling-down on the hyper-homo-mania. Especially things like requiring students to write Valentine's Day letters to their same-sex class mates, requiring them to go to dances with the same gender, etc.

    If students were required to participate in this kind of thing in the US and we couldn't have our own private schools, my family would easily think of leaving without a fuss.

    Peace.

    I doubt that sort of indoctrination would actually work, it would probably be counter-productive if anything. School’s actual ability to coerce a large number of students is quite limited, especially if they don’t have the support of the childrens’ parents.

  78. @Beckow
    An ideological dream is not a plan. It would be like saying that Christians have a plan, 'die and go to heaven', or communist had a plan, 'abolish money'. Those are emotional defensive outbursts against reality, not plans.

    The current globalist plan is to mix up the populations, preferably dilute or eliminate the white groups, remove borders, unify languages, simplify logistics and financial transactions, and create privileged isolated enclaves for the selected few to supervise it. The key point is the desire to remove the (mostly) white European working-middle class people as a strong factor in the political life. They use two things: the post-modern ennui of the European population (caused by the previously achieved prosperity and some bloodshed) and the infinite desire of the 5 billion Third Worlders to escape their miserable fates.

    They have a goal, but as a 'plan' it is on the same level of rationality as 'let's abolish money and we will all live in earthly paradise'. Mixing up people leads to more conflict, not less. Mixing up connected vessels takes it down to the least common denominator, in wages, intelligence, culture - just test it in your garage.

    But you might be right that as a terminology it suffices; well, stupid people will have a stupid plan. Merkel fits right in.

    They have a goal, but as a ‘plan‘ it is on the same level of rationality as ‘let’s abolish money and we will all live in earthly paradise‘. Mixing up people leads to more conflict, not less.

    that’s my point – for the people *funding* globalism that is the plan: 1) destroy high IQ populations and 2) spread maximum conflict for divide and rule. it’s a consciously evil plan. they know the end result will be very bad but (they think) not for them (and if it does turn out bad for them they’ll just move to China).

    i’m saying it’s possible politicians like Merkel are puppets who genuinely believe the media’s dishonest multicult utopia version of the globalist plan.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ... they know the end result will be very bad
     
    Do they? My interpretation is that they are enchanted by the end result and don't see it at all as bad. They think that more people overall will benefit (the 5 billion Third Worlders), they unconsciously dislike their own kind and want them to be taken down a notch, and they believe the white Euro masses deserve it. It is a fantasy, as most ideologies, but they probably - with a few exceptions - don't think of what they are doing as evil.

    They also think it is inevitable. I have had a few discussions with some of them about it, and when all else fails, they simply claim that 'it is happening anyway, there is no alternative'. Also very similar to most ideological early stage delusions. Early Christians were all about Jesus coming 'very soon'. And the hapless commies used to get votes around countryside by promising to share cattle, and sometimes even wifes. The early belief in inevitability is crucial to most ideologies - just listen to an average crazy NGO-maniac today, it is all about 'progress' and 'we are on the right side of history'.

    It is hard to tell what Merkel actually believes, she could just be an opportunist (she famously hid in a sauna when the Berlin Wall was coming down.) We cannot see anyone's real motivations, so I tend to discard it.
  79. @Thorfinnsson
    Faith Goldy hasn't worked for The Rebel for some time now.

    She's not getting much coverage either. She's been banned from the mayoral debates (despite polling in the top #3), and Canadian TV is refusing to run the ads she bought (in violation of Canadian law). Just yesterday Google suspended her AdWords campaign for spurious reasons.

    As a result she's run a guerrilla mayoral campaign. I'm not Canadian let alone Torontonian, so I couldn't tell you how successful she's been.

    Faith Goldy hasn’t worked for The Rebel for some time now.

    Hmmmm – OK – because she was doing propaganda for them at least in 2017 – so I guess it depends on the definition of “some time”.

    Just yesterday Google suspended her AdWords campaign for spurious reasons.

    Interesting.

    As a result she’s run a guerrilla mayoral campaign.

    Definitely an interesting bid. Out of the establishment, pretty stoked about Israel, seems her only platform is; no more immigrants. And she seems not to have any real qualifications other than being some kind of a media personality…hell, she could run for POTUS!

    Peace.

  80. hell, she could run for POTUS!

    Watch it!

    BTW, it’s not whoring if you sincerely love it.

    • Replies: @Talha

    Watch it!
     
    I know - you have to be a born US citizen...otherwise some enterprising folks will pull a birth-certificate fiasco on her. Don't worry, I'm in the same boat - being Karachi-born.

    it’s not whoring if you sincerely love it.
     
    True, but the money does help pay the bills.

    Peace.

  81. @Beckow
    The thing about West Germans losing their mojo is scary. Nations lost wars before, nations were demonised before and they recovered. The lack of resilience displayed in Germany in the last 10-20 years is historically unique, something else might be going on. I think that Germany was wrong in WWII, it triggered a European cataclysm without thinking through the consequences, the obsession with wiping out its eastern neighbours was criminal. But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn't black and white. Why can't Germans move on and live with today's realities?

    I can see the Church is a problem. There has always been a self-destructive element in Christianity, it is almost designed to be counter-evolutionary for its adherents. But the music is nice and one has to have a routine and some rituals during those inevitable life events. Either the church people have started the take the mushy verbiage in their sacred texts too seriously, or there are external forces using them. Maybe both.

    I have faith in large parts of Germany, well mostly the easterners, but it has to start with demographic strength. That would create its own dynamic, new attitudes, self-confidence. For that one has to have leaders invested in the future - and Merkel is the exact opposite.

    But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn’t black and white. Why can’t Germans move on and live with today’s realities?

    Because many Germans want to get rid off Germany in favor of EUrope.

    The “permissive consensus” that for several decades allowed European integration to proceed unimpeded was stronger in Germany than elsewhere, except perhaps in Italy.6 Up to today, “Europe”7 carries something like a sacred aura in Germany, too elevated to be linked to dirty concepts like national interest. The main strongholds of German Europeanism are the educated middle classes and the young generation, for whom Europe stands for all that is both virtuous and pleasant—from peace, human rights, tolerance, and “openness” to an international labor market and convenient travel across borders. Reflecting the difficulties of identifying with a German nation after 1945, German pro-European sentiment has long considered it self-evident that the EU is ultimately the vessel into which European nations can give up their separate states, identities, and interests. While other member states may have joined the EU to restore or preserve their national sovereignty,8 Germany is in the EU to get rid of it, firmly believing that this holds true for all others as well.

    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/05/europe-under-merkel-iv-balance-of-impotence/

    How do you expect such people to defend their old nation?
    They want to do the opposite and oppose pro-Germans.

    In a video interview with Informr, the new leader of the Green Party, Robert Habeck, made controversial remarks denying the notion of a German people, newspaper Junge Freiheit reports.

    When asked about the concept of betrayal of the people, Habeck says:

    “That’s a Nazi concept. There is no people, in consequence, there cannot be a treason of the people. It’s a statement of anger that can be really divisive, discriminatory and pernicious.”

    https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/05/germans-as-a-people-do-not-exist-so-they-cannot-be-betrayed-says-green-party-leader/

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...many Germans want to get rid off Germany in favor of EUrope
     
    I also want a lot of things, but grown-ups usually learns how to live with what is possible. It is not possible to have a 'EU identity', it would require a demographic upheaval, language consolidation and cultural changes that are simply not doable. So the 'many Germans' who say that's what they want are living in a fantasy. Or they are scared and so they are lying.

    The Habeck guy is really something, 'there is no people', right. He must not get out much, or is possibly mentally ill.
  82. @Jayce
    There was also some political dissidents living in Kiev and associating with Azov.

    Speaking of which, seems ol' Grindr Greg was in Kiev recently for the rough trade.

    https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/10/exposed-u-s-gladio-gathering-in-ukraine-neo-nazi-pederast-greg-johnson-casapound-svoboda/

    The male strippers and prostitutes are unfortunately advertised almost as much as their female counterparts, so not too surprising.

  83. @iffen
    hell, she could run for POTUS!


    Watch it!


    BTW, it's not whoring if you sincerely love it.

    Watch it!

    I know – you have to be a born US citizen…otherwise some enterprising folks will pull a birth-certificate fiasco on her. Don’t worry, I’m in the same boat – being Karachi-born.

    it’s not whoring if you sincerely love it.

    True, but the money does help pay the bills.

    Peace.

  84. @Thorfinnsson
    Can she really win?

    I suspect she'd have more of an impact in the US and Canada.

    I live in a country where the traditional sources of information are unreliable. Polling firms have repeatedly estimated Faith Goldy’s support at 3% or 6%. To win, she has to get a plurality, probably about 40% of the votes. So it seems like she doesn’t have a chance.

    And yet those same polls show that a third of all voters are undecided. That’s an ususually high proportion, and I suspect that most of those undecideds are people who are afraid to state their voting intentions. It also bothers me that so many employees of these polling firms openly express their disdain for Faith. Why should anyone share their voting intentions under such conditions?

    For what it’s worth I believe she can win. That’s simply a feeling, and I have no scientific data to back it. Nonetheless, it seems to me that a marginal “extremist” would not be getting support from Torontonians who are thoroughly post-national, i.e., “pozzed.” Yet she is gaining support even in that demographic.

    Is there just one of these people that gets coverage and publicity that does not whore for Israel?

    If you must use that kind of terminology you can say she’s a “whore” for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands. One reason is their lower fertility rate. A bigger reason, however, is the attitude of their Muslim neighbors—not all of them, or even a majority, but a large minority. About a third of all Muslims want to see Christians disappear in the near future. I’ve talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians, and they all say the same thing: the government cannot easily prosecute people who terrorize Christians because the average Muslim will not denounce them — partly out of fear, and partly out of a perverse sense of solidarity.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Talha

    she’s a “whore” for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands
     
    Yeah - and there's a guy named Bush walking around here that she can demand gets sent to the Hague for kick-starting that nonsense if she really means it. Once I see that, I'll take these people seriously. But no - they wave flags for Israel, support the stupid policies Israel supports:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHmhf_wrcrM

    And then complain when what everyone, who seriously knew anything about the region, said would happen...actually happens. Blair, Bush and anybody else who wen cowboy of Iraq should be prosecuted with extreme prejudice for what they did. Christians should be pissing on their graves.

    One reason is their lower fertility rate.
     
    Not our problem - have kids, they're fun.

    I’ve talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians
     
    Which country are you talking about and then we can discuss rationally and with specifics.

    There are countries where Muslim security forces are dying in order to keep extremists from attacking Christians.
    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Four-security-personnel-killed-in-Jordan-shoot-out-564706

    There are Muslim majority countries where a Christian judge can punish (and in a very imaginative way) Muslims that insult Christian sensibilities (which by the way is fully in line with classical Islamic law - you can look up what Imam Ibn Abidin [ra] wrote about it in his massive legal compendium 'Radd ul-Muhtar'):
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/muslim-boys-virgin-mary-quran-punishment-jesus-lebanon-christianity-respect-lebanon-tripoli-saad-a8208031.html

    And I can guarantee you - pound for pound of flesh, pint for pint of blood - these extremists have killed more Muslims than any other people in the region.

    And all of this - all of it - was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq (I'm not even talking about Libya or Syria). Before that, everyone had a much better control of our extremists and there was less extremism in the first place.

    Peace.
    , @Yevardian
    Well Toronto did elect Rob Ford, multiple times, so anything could happen.
  85. @Peter Frost
    If Faith Goldy wins the Toronto election, will this have any impact on Europeans? Is this something that Europeans even know about and talk about?

    I have no idea who Faith Goldy is (have read the name somewhere…but don’t know anything about her), so no, it isn’t something known among European right-wingers (or at least German ones, but I think the same applies at least for the rest of continental Europe).
    Canada only figures as a supposed example of how to do immigration correctly…even many AfD politicians cite it as a positive example for a skills-based immigration system. It’s not well known that Anglo-Canadians (or white Canadians in general) are on track for minority status within a few decades, and that there are huge issues with Canadian multiculturalism, free speech restrictions etc. Unfortunately many German right-wingers at least are still quite naive about this.

  86. @notanon

    They have a goal, but as a ‘plan‘ it is on the same level of rationality as ‘let’s abolish money and we will all live in earthly paradise‘. Mixing up people leads to more conflict, not less.
     
    that's my point - for the people *funding* globalism that is the plan: 1) destroy high IQ populations and 2) spread maximum conflict for divide and rule. it's a consciously evil plan. they know the end result will be very bad but (they think) not for them (and if it does turn out bad for them they'll just move to China).

    i'm saying it's possible politicians like Merkel are puppets who genuinely believe the media's dishonest multicult utopia version of the globalist plan.

    … they know the end result will be very bad

    Do they? My interpretation is that they are enchanted by the end result and don’t see it at all as bad. They think that more people overall will benefit (the 5 billion Third Worlders), they unconsciously dislike their own kind and want them to be taken down a notch, and they believe the white Euro masses deserve it. It is a fantasy, as most ideologies, but they probably – with a few exceptions – don’t think of what they are doing as evil.

    They also think it is inevitable. I have had a few discussions with some of them about it, and when all else fails, they simply claim that ‘it is happening anyway, there is no alternative‘. Also very similar to most ideological early stage delusions. Early Christians were all about Jesus coming ‘very soon‘. And the hapless commies used to get votes around countryside by promising to share cattle, and sometimes even wifes. The early belief in inevitability is crucial to most ideologies – just listen to an average crazy NGO-maniac today, it is all about ‘progress‘ and ‘we are on the right side of history‘.

    It is hard to tell what Merkel actually believes, she could just be an opportunist (she famously hid in a sauna when the Berlin Wall was coming down.) We cannot see anyone’s real motivations, so I tend to discard it.

    • Replies: @notanon

    My interpretation is that they are enchanted by the end result and don’t see it at all as bad.
     
    i agree there are utopian globalists. i'm talking about the people in the shadows who fund globalist politicians and own the media.

    do you think those people are utopians?
  87. @JRB
    Two months ago, during the Seehofer-crisis, all the main Dutch newspapers, who are nowadays mostly under control of the Clinton-faction within the deep state, were all writing that Jens Spahn would be the successor of Angela Merkel. I thought this was plausible since Spahn is a homosexual, he went trough the „Young Leader Program“ of the American Council for Germany and he even attended the Bilderberg conference last year. Laschet on the other hand only became minister-president of NRW by accident (implosion of the SPD). He is already in his late fifties, he is married and he even has children (nowadays a disadvantage). He also seems to have no backing from outside of Germany.

    It’s true that Spahn is well-connected with the Americans, he’s on very friendly terms with Trump’s homo ambassador Grennell (who knows what they’re doing when they’re meeting). And yes, he’s been cited as a possible successor to Merkel. But Laschet has more of a home base than Spahn, NRW is the most populous German state after all. Another possible successor is Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, the general secretary of the CDU, and a kind of catholic Merkel clone with children. It’s hard to tell, I can’t pretend to understand what goes on in the mind of CDU members.

  88. @Dmitry
    Well, perhaps I am not knowledgeable about Germans and Swiss - but I cannot imagine it would be a very difficult, or distant, emigration (except in terms of paperwork) for a German to just travel over a border to another majority German speaking country (although one with the highest salaries and living standard in the world, as well as more sensible political affairs).

    Swiss aren’t just Germans with a weird dialect, they’re clearly their own nation with a different mentality, much more so than Austrians.
    And many of them resent the influx of Germans coming to Switzerland…Germans aren’t popular there. Even years ago (in 2011), I heard stories about Germans in Switzerland who found letters of the sort “Next time we’ll get you” in their mail.

    • Replies: @Mikel
    I used to have a Swiss girlfriend and spent two months in Switzerland. I've heard them talk of how boastful Germans are, always speaking of how things are done "bei uns" and such. With them Swiss not being exactly ashamed of their own accomplishments, you get all the right ingredients for some amount of dislike (which is usually bigger if the rivals are also neighbors).
  89. @Thorfinnsson
    Faith Goldy hasn't worked for The Rebel for some time now.

    She's not getting much coverage either. She's been banned from the mayoral debates (despite polling in the top #3), and Canadian TV is refusing to run the ads she bought (in violation of Canadian law). Just yesterday Google suspended her AdWords campaign for spurious reasons.

    As a result she's run a guerrilla mayoral campaign. I'm not Canadian let alone Torontonian, so I couldn't tell you how successful she's been.

    And of course…looked up her profile on Wikipedia – looks like she is almost-thirty and unmarried and no kids.

    Of course, actually becoming the Mayor of Toronto will likely make her too busy to become a mother and thus facilitate the likelihood of her becoming a genetic dead-end…(sigh) lead by example, I guess.

    Peace.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  90. @Beckow
    An ideological dream is not a plan. It would be like saying that Christians have a plan, 'die and go to heaven', or communist had a plan, 'abolish money'. Those are emotional defensive outbursts against reality, not plans.

    The current globalist plan is to mix up the populations, preferably dilute or eliminate the white groups, remove borders, unify languages, simplify logistics and financial transactions, and create privileged isolated enclaves for the selected few to supervise it. The key point is the desire to remove the (mostly) white European working-middle class people as a strong factor in the political life. They use two things: the post-modern ennui of the European population (caused by the previously achieved prosperity and some bloodshed) and the infinite desire of the 5 billion Third Worlders to escape their miserable fates.

    They have a goal, but as a 'plan' it is on the same level of rationality as 'let's abolish money and we will all live in earthly paradise'. Mixing up people leads to more conflict, not less. Mixing up connected vessels takes it down to the least common denominator, in wages, intelligence, culture - just test it in your garage.

    But you might be right that as a terminology it suffices; well, stupid people will have a stupid plan. Merkel fits right in.

    An ideological dream is not a plan. It would be like saying that Christians have a plan, ‘die and go to heaven‘, or communist had a plan, ‘abolish money‘.

    Or that Beckow has a plan: “engage in petty, anti-Christian ankle-biting.” ;)

    Those are emotional defensive outbursts against reality, not plans.

    Pot, kettle, etc, etc.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    I am not anti-Christian, it is my tradition too. But Christianity is a philosophy, not a plan for society. In the vulgar version of Christianity, it is all about love, forgiveness and waiting for salvation in after-life. That is unworkable for most societies, pure ideology that does more harm than good.

    I would also say that arguments of type: 'you are stupid', 'no, you are', are not very productive. I outgrew it around my second year in kindergarden.
  91. @Beckow
    The thing about West Germans losing their mojo is scary. Nations lost wars before, nations were demonised before and they recovered. The lack of resilience displayed in Germany in the last 10-20 years is historically unique, something else might be going on. I think that Germany was wrong in WWII, it triggered a European cataclysm without thinking through the consequences, the obsession with wiping out its eastern neighbours was criminal. But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn't black and white. Why can't Germans move on and live with today's realities?

    I can see the Church is a problem. There has always been a self-destructive element in Christianity, it is almost designed to be counter-evolutionary for its adherents. But the music is nice and one has to have a routine and some rituals during those inevitable life events. Either the church people have started the take the mushy verbiage in their sacred texts too seriously, or there are external forces using them. Maybe both.

    I have faith in large parts of Germany, well mostly the easterners, but it has to start with demographic strength. That would create its own dynamic, new attitudes, self-confidence. For that one has to have leaders invested in the future - and Merkel is the exact opposite.

    Why can’t Germans move on and live with today’s realities?

    I don’t really understand it either. It clearly wasn’t an inevitable consequence of WW2, East Germany proves that. Probably too much wealth and the demented political culture that evolved in the federal republic, with the Basic law and its suicidal parts about the right to asylum being treated as if it were part of the Ten commandments. But it’s not like Germany is totally unique, you have much the same story in many other Western countries as well.

  92. @songbird

    my brother has worked in California, and has not recommended America as a country to live in
     
    There's been a general exodus of whites from California, arguably because the state has turned. Some still like to live there though.

    I am told, problem of living in America, is more just boring social life for young people, and a very different culture.

    Job situation is good, and it’s not dangerous in his area.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It's all fun and games until you get doxxed for not being in line with the ever-shifting zeistgeist of wokeness.
    , @AaronB
    Boring isn't quite the right word. More like soulless, empty, a life based on hustling and pointlessly extending the reach of technology. People are quite pleasant, especially if you are on vacation, but once you get to know them they are angry inside and have the dull seriousness of the uncultured barbarian. Sophisticated cultures understand life is about refined aesthetic and spiritual enjoyment.

    Immigrants from culturally rich countries tend to complain about how boring and empty life is in America - its actually extremely common.
  93. @Talha

    In 2011 or 2013 it was found that Germany had actually 1.1 million less foreigners than they thought they had. They left w/o deregistering.
     
    Not surprising actually. They could probably accomplish this faster by doubling-down on the hyper-homo-mania. Especially things like requiring students to write Valentine's Day letters to their same-sex class mates, requiring them to go to dances with the same gender, etc.

    If students were required to participate in this kind of thing in the US and we couldn't have our own private schools, my family would easily think of leaving without a fuss.

    Peace.

    They could probably accomplish this faster by doubling-down on the hyper-homo-mania.

    Islamophilia is much more heavily promoted in Germany than any homo stuff.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Gonna have to take your word on this G_R since I don't live in Germany...

    Peace.
  94. @Beckow

    ... they know the end result will be very bad
     
    Do they? My interpretation is that they are enchanted by the end result and don't see it at all as bad. They think that more people overall will benefit (the 5 billion Third Worlders), they unconsciously dislike their own kind and want them to be taken down a notch, and they believe the white Euro masses deserve it. It is a fantasy, as most ideologies, but they probably - with a few exceptions - don't think of what they are doing as evil.

    They also think it is inevitable. I have had a few discussions with some of them about it, and when all else fails, they simply claim that 'it is happening anyway, there is no alternative'. Also very similar to most ideological early stage delusions. Early Christians were all about Jesus coming 'very soon'. And the hapless commies used to get votes around countryside by promising to share cattle, and sometimes even wifes. The early belief in inevitability is crucial to most ideologies - just listen to an average crazy NGO-maniac today, it is all about 'progress' and 'we are on the right side of history'.

    It is hard to tell what Merkel actually believes, she could just be an opportunist (she famously hid in a sauna when the Berlin Wall was coming down.) We cannot see anyone's real motivations, so I tend to discard it.

    My interpretation is that they are enchanted by the end result and don’t see it at all as bad.

    i agree there are utopian globalists. i’m talking about the people in the shadows who fund globalist politicians and own the media.

    do you think those people are utopians?

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...the people in the shadows who fund globalist politicians and own the media. Do you think those people are utopians?
     
    I think most of them are ideologues. In other words, they believe in either the goodness of it all (for mankind as a whole), or in its inevitability. A few might be hypocritical, some are skeptics, but generally the globalist onslaught couldn't go on without the elites being run by the true believers.

    And I am talking about the people 'in the shadows', not the known names. They believe this stuff.
  95. The column ended bizarrely. Not helpful given that I otherwise wanted to forward it to some folks, as I often do with AK material. Joking or ironic or whatever, needlessly bringing in mention of genociding migrants, using that word, was unnecessary.

  96. @Peter Frost
    I live in a country where the traditional sources of information are unreliable. Polling firms have repeatedly estimated Faith Goldy's support at 3% or 6%. To win, she has to get a plurality, probably about 40% of the votes. So it seems like she doesn't have a chance.

    And yet those same polls show that a third of all voters are undecided. That's an ususually high proportion, and I suspect that most of those undecideds are people who are afraid to state their voting intentions. It also bothers me that so many employees of these polling firms openly express their disdain for Faith. Why should anyone share their voting intentions under such conditions?

    For what it's worth I believe she can win. That's simply a feeling, and I have no scientific data to back it. Nonetheless, it seems to me that a marginal "extremist" would not be getting support from Torontonians who are thoroughly post-national, i.e., "pozzed." Yet she is gaining support even in that demographic.

    Is there just one of these people that gets coverage and publicity that does not whore for Israel?

    If you must use that kind of terminology you can say she's a "whore" for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands. One reason is their lower fertility rate. A bigger reason, however, is the attitude of their Muslim neighbors—not all of them, or even a majority, but a large minority. About a third of all Muslims want to see Christians disappear in the near future. I've talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians, and they all say the same thing: the government cannot easily prosecute people who terrorize Christians because the average Muslim will not denounce them -- partly out of fear, and partly out of a perverse sense of solidarity.

    she’s a “whore” for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands

    Yeah – and there’s a guy named Bush walking around here that she can demand gets sent to the Hague for kick-starting that nonsense if she really means it. Once I see that, I’ll take these people seriously. But no – they wave flags for Israel, support the stupid policies Israel supports:

    And then complain when what everyone, who seriously knew anything about the region, said would happen…actually happens. Blair, Bush and anybody else who wen cowboy of Iraq should be prosecuted with extreme prejudice for what they did. Christians should be pissing on their graves.

    One reason is their lower fertility rate.

    Not our problem – have kids, they’re fun.

    I’ve talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians

    Which country are you talking about and then we can discuss rationally and with specifics.

    There are countries where Muslim security forces are dying in order to keep extremists from attacking Christians.

    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Four-security-personnel-killed-in-Jordan-shoot-out-564706

    There are Muslim majority countries where a Christian judge can punish (and in a very imaginative way) Muslims that insult Christian sensibilities (which by the way is fully in line with classical Islamic law – you can look up what Imam Ibn Abidin [ra] wrote about it in his massive legal compendium ‘Radd ul-Muhtar’):

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/muslim-boys-virgin-mary-quran-punishment-jesus-lebanon-christianity-respect-lebanon-tripoli-saad-a8208031.html

    And I can guarantee you – pound for pound of flesh, pint for pint of blood – these extremists have killed more Muslims than any other people in the region.

    And all of this – all of it – was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq (I’m not even talking about Libya or Syria). Before that, everyone had a much better control of our extremists and there was less extremism in the first place.

    Peace.

    • Agree: for-the-record
    • Replies: @Talha
    Another guy...possibly the main guy...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTk2N03-m8U

    That is a great name for the film, "Vice"...

    vice:

    -immoral or wicked behavior.
    -an immoral or wicked personal characteristic.

    synonyms: immorality, wrongdoing, wickedness, badness, evil, iniquity, villainy, corruption, misconduct, misdeeds;
     
    God will take to task the extremists on both sides of the equation...

    "Beware the supplication of the oppressed - even if he is an unbeliever! For there is no barrier between it and Allah." - reported in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad (ra)
    , @iffen
    was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq

    If it makes you feel better go ahead and believe this. I agree that it was a mistake, but you people have been killing each other for centuries before we came on the scene. Even in the modern era Muslims seem to do okay with wars without our help. I suppose the Iran/Iraq war was kick started by us? The invasion of Kuwait? I suppose you blame the violence at partition on us. Let's make it simpler. What do you not blame on us?
  97. @German_reader

    They could probably accomplish this faster by doubling-down on the hyper-homo-mania.
     
    Islamophilia is much more heavily promoted in Germany than any homo stuff.

    Gonna have to take your word on this G_R since I don’t live in Germany…

    Peace.

  98. @Dmitry
    I am told, problem of living in America, is more just boring social life for young people, and a very different culture.

    Job situation is good, and it's not dangerous in his area.

    It’s all fun and games until you get doxxed for not being in line with the ever-shifting zeistgeist of wokeness.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    If you are visitor in a foreign country, you should not say anything publicly about politics anyway.
  99. @neutral
    This image perfectly captures the insanity of the global immigration zeitgeist.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/Border%20Fence%20Spain%20Golf%20course.jpg

    For those that want context, this is one of those Spanish areas in North Africa, where Africans are storming them at increasing rates.

    This impressive photograph might have some measurable effect on Steve Sailer’s innermost self, mightn’t it?

  100. @Dmitry
    I am told, problem of living in America, is more just boring social life for young people, and a very different culture.

    Job situation is good, and it's not dangerous in his area.

    Boring isn’t quite the right word. More like soulless, empty, a life based on hustling and pointlessly extending the reach of technology. People are quite pleasant, especially if you are on vacation, but once you get to know them they are angry inside and have the dull seriousness of the uncultured barbarian. Sophisticated cultures understand life is about refined aesthetic and spiritual enjoyment.

    Immigrants from culturally rich countries tend to complain about how boring and empty life is in America – its actually extremely common.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    It's difficult to judge another people's culture. Only an American can probably understand or appreciate the American culture and personality.

    But sufficient to say, American culture is a very different one. Culture shock will be a lot larger if you go to America, than if you go to West Europe.
  101. @Buster Keaton’s Stunt Double

    An ideological dream is not a plan. It would be like saying that Christians have a plan, ‘die and go to heaven‘, or communist had a plan, ‘abolish money‘.
     
    Or that Beckow has a plan: “engage in petty, anti-Christian ankle-biting.” ;)

    Those are emotional defensive outbursts against reality, not plans.
     
    Pot, kettle, etc, etc.

    I am not anti-Christian, it is my tradition too. But Christianity is a philosophy, not a plan for society. In the vulgar version of Christianity, it is all about love, forgiveness and waiting for salvation in after-life. That is unworkable for most societies, pure ideology that does more harm than good.

    I would also say that arguments of type: ‘you are stupid’, ‘no, you are‘, are not very productive. I outgrew it around my second year in kindergarden.

    • Replies: @Buster Keaton’s Stunt Double

    I would also say that arguments of type: ‘you are stupid’, ‘no, you are‘, are not very productive. I outgrew it around my second year in kindergarden.
     
    Too bad that your understanding of Christianity appears to have remained at that level of sophistication. :P
  102. @notanon

    My interpretation is that they are enchanted by the end result and don’t see it at all as bad.
     
    i agree there are utopian globalists. i'm talking about the people in the shadows who fund globalist politicians and own the media.

    do you think those people are utopians?

    …the people in the shadows who fund globalist politicians and own the media. Do you think those people are utopians?

    I think most of them are ideologues. In other words, they believe in either the goodness of it all (for mankind as a whole), or in its inevitability. A few might be hypocritical, some are skeptics, but generally the globalist onslaught couldn’t go on without the elites being run by the true believers.

    And I am talking about the people ‘in the shadows‘, not the known names. They believe this stuff.

    • Replies: @notanon
    fair enough - i think there are a lot of true believers involved at the managerial level but imo the banking mafia are running the show from behind the scenes and they are consciously genocidal (in the sense of wanting to destroy all high IQ populations) but that's not something i can prove.
  103. @Talha

    she’s a “whore” for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands
     
    Yeah - and there's a guy named Bush walking around here that she can demand gets sent to the Hague for kick-starting that nonsense if she really means it. Once I see that, I'll take these people seriously. But no - they wave flags for Israel, support the stupid policies Israel supports:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHmhf_wrcrM

    And then complain when what everyone, who seriously knew anything about the region, said would happen...actually happens. Blair, Bush and anybody else who wen cowboy of Iraq should be prosecuted with extreme prejudice for what they did. Christians should be pissing on their graves.

    One reason is their lower fertility rate.
     
    Not our problem - have kids, they're fun.

    I’ve talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians
     
    Which country are you talking about and then we can discuss rationally and with specifics.

    There are countries where Muslim security forces are dying in order to keep extremists from attacking Christians.
    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Four-security-personnel-killed-in-Jordan-shoot-out-564706

    There are Muslim majority countries where a Christian judge can punish (and in a very imaginative way) Muslims that insult Christian sensibilities (which by the way is fully in line with classical Islamic law - you can look up what Imam Ibn Abidin [ra] wrote about it in his massive legal compendium 'Radd ul-Muhtar'):
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/muslim-boys-virgin-mary-quran-punishment-jesus-lebanon-christianity-respect-lebanon-tripoli-saad-a8208031.html

    And I can guarantee you - pound for pound of flesh, pint for pint of blood - these extremists have killed more Muslims than any other people in the region.

    And all of this - all of it - was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq (I'm not even talking about Libya or Syria). Before that, everyone had a much better control of our extremists and there was less extremism in the first place.

    Peace.

    Another guy…possibly the main guy…

    That is a great name for the film, “Vice”…

    vice:

    -immoral or wicked behavior.
    -an immoral or wicked personal characteristic.

    synonyms: immorality, wrongdoing, wickedness, badness, evil, iniquity, villainy, corruption, misconduct, misdeeds;

    God will take to task the extremists on both sides of the equation…

    “Beware the supplication of the oppressed – even if he is an unbeliever! For there is no barrier between it and Allah.” – reported in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad (ra)

  104. @Mitleser
    No, you just do not know what are you talking about.

    Last year, 39,1% of all children were younger than 5 in the FRG had a migrant background.
    Among children who are 5-10 year old the share was 37,6%.
    42% is not a surprising number.
    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    Perhaps. But I think the key is the definition of “migrant background.” It clearly can’t be as I shown somebody whose one of parents was born abroad. It must be broader, multigenerational. Something akin to Nuremberg laws.

    Perhaps our Nazi_reader could explain.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    Official definition by the Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge:

    https://www.bamf.de/DE/Service/Left/Glossary/_function/glossar.html?lv3=3198544


    "Eine Person hat dann einen Migrationshintergrund, wenn sie selbst oder mindestens ein Elternteil nicht mit deutscher Staatsangehörigkeit geboren ist."

    Die Definition umfasst im Einzelnen folgende Personen:
    1. zugewanderte und nicht zugewanderte Ausländer;
    2. zugewanderte und nicht zugewanderte Eingebürgerte;
    3. (Spät-)Aussiedler;
    4. mit deutscher Staatsangehörigkeit geborene Nachkommen der drei zuvor genannten Gruppen.
     
    "A person has a migrant background if he or at least one of his parents hasn't been born with German citizenship.
    The definition comprehends the following groups:
    1. resident foreigners, both those who have immigrated themselves and those who haven't immigrated (e.g. children of foreigners born in Germany who for some reason haven't acquired German citizenship - this was more common before the reform of citizenship laws in the late 1990s).
    2. people who have been naturalized, both those who have immigrated themselves and those who haven't immigrated (e.g. Turks born in Germany who acquired German citizenship as adults).
    3. ethnic Germans from eastern Europe, former Soviet Union.
    4. descendants of the first three groups with German citizenship."

    That definition seems to be from 2017.
    They also mention that the census of 2011 used a somewhat different definition and defined "migrant background" as applying to every foreigner or German who has immigrated to the federal republic since 1955 and everybody who has at least one parent who has immigrated since 1955.


    Nazi_reader...lol. Since you didn't put it in quotes like in the previous thread, I guess that means you consider me a cartoon character.
  105. @utu
    Perhaps. But I think the key is the definition of "migrant background." It clearly can't be as I shown somebody whose one of parents was born abroad. It must be broader, multigenerational. Something akin to Nuremberg laws.

    Perhaps our Nazi_reader could explain.

    Official definition by the Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge:

    https://www.bamf.de/DE/Service/Left/Glossary/_function/glossar.html?lv3=3198544

    “Eine Person hat dann einen Migrationshintergrund, wenn sie selbst oder mindestens ein Elternteil nicht mit deutscher Staatsangehörigkeit geboren ist.”

    Die Definition umfasst im Einzelnen folgende Personen:
    1. zugewanderte und nicht zugewanderte Ausländer;
    2. zugewanderte und nicht zugewanderte Eingebürgerte;
    3. (Spät-)Aussiedler;
    4. mit deutscher Staatsangehörigkeit geborene Nachkommen der drei zuvor genannten Gruppen.

    “A person has a migrant background if he or at least one of his parents hasn’t been born with German citizenship.
    The definition comprehends the following groups:
    1. resident foreigners, both those who have immigrated themselves and those who haven’t immigrated (e.g. children of foreigners born in Germany who for some reason haven’t acquired German citizenship – this was more common before the reform of citizenship laws in the late 1990s).
    2. people who have been naturalized, both those who have immigrated themselves and those who haven’t immigrated (e.g. Turks born in Germany who acquired German citizenship as adults).
    3. ethnic Germans from eastern Europe, former Soviet Union.
    4. descendants of the first three groups with German citizenship.”

    That definition seems to be from 2017.
    They also mention that the census of 2011 used a somewhat different definition and defined “migrant background” as applying to every foreigner or German who has immigrated to the federal republic since 1955 and everybody who has at least one parent who has immigrated since 1955.

    Nazi_reader…lol. Since you didn’t put it in quotes like in the previous thread, I guess that means you consider me a cartoon character.

    • Replies: @utu
    Sorry, it was a joke that only existed in my mind. But you got it.

    Thanks for explanation. This I think agrees with the categories form this table:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/TablesMigrationStatusSex.html

    Population in private households with migrant background in the narrow sense was 23.5% in 2017. These are the subcategories:

    (1) Germans with migration experience of their own - 6.4% (?naturalized migrants including ethnic Germans from, say, Russia?)

    (2) Germans without migration experience of their own - 5.64%. (?2nd and higher generation of migrants who naturalized?)
    (3) Foreigners with migration experience of their own - 8.71%. (?foreigners residents?)
    (4) Foreigners without migration experience of their own -1.81%. (?children born in Germany of foreign residents?)

    The category (2) seems to me the most difficult comprehend. Do they keep track of your parent or grandparent status?


    Now this table gives the number of children with and w/o migrant background for 2017.
    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    For under 5 years of age it is 60.9% for w/o and 39.1% 'children with migrant background'.

    Assuming that 'children with migrant background' are children from 'households with migrant background in the narrow sense' then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    Obviously it would be hard to to get ethnic data but it would be important to know how many of 23.5% households are actually Europeans: ethnic Germans, ethnic Slavs, ethnic Romanian, Hungarian, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Italians. If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.
  106. @Talha

    she’s a “whore” for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands
     
    Yeah - and there's a guy named Bush walking around here that she can demand gets sent to the Hague for kick-starting that nonsense if she really means it. Once I see that, I'll take these people seriously. But no - they wave flags for Israel, support the stupid policies Israel supports:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHmhf_wrcrM

    And then complain when what everyone, who seriously knew anything about the region, said would happen...actually happens. Blair, Bush and anybody else who wen cowboy of Iraq should be prosecuted with extreme prejudice for what they did. Christians should be pissing on their graves.

    One reason is their lower fertility rate.
     
    Not our problem - have kids, they're fun.

    I’ve talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians
     
    Which country are you talking about and then we can discuss rationally and with specifics.

    There are countries where Muslim security forces are dying in order to keep extremists from attacking Christians.
    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Four-security-personnel-killed-in-Jordan-shoot-out-564706

    There are Muslim majority countries where a Christian judge can punish (and in a very imaginative way) Muslims that insult Christian sensibilities (which by the way is fully in line with classical Islamic law - you can look up what Imam Ibn Abidin [ra] wrote about it in his massive legal compendium 'Radd ul-Muhtar'):
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/muslim-boys-virgin-mary-quran-punishment-jesus-lebanon-christianity-respect-lebanon-tripoli-saad-a8208031.html

    And I can guarantee you - pound for pound of flesh, pint for pint of blood - these extremists have killed more Muslims than any other people in the region.

    And all of this - all of it - was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq (I'm not even talking about Libya or Syria). Before that, everyone had a much better control of our extremists and there was less extremism in the first place.

    Peace.

    was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq

    If it makes you feel better go ahead and believe this. I agree that it was a mistake, but you people have been killing each other for centuries before we came on the scene. Even in the modern era Muslims seem to do okay with wars without our help. I suppose the Iran/Iraq war was kick started by us? The invasion of Kuwait? I suppose you blame the violence at partition on us. Let’s make it simpler. What do you not blame on us?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I suppose he was referring specifically to anti-Christian persecution, and it's indeed true that one of the consequences of the Iraq war was the destruction (through expulsion/emigration) of much of Iraq's Christian community (also of other minority groups like Mandaeans).
    US policy also has a curious habit of aiding and empowering the very worst actors and groups in the Islamic world...in Syria the US has been on the side of jihadis.
    But it's pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own. Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.
    , @Talha

    I agree that it was a mistake, but you people have been killing each other for centuries before we came on the scene.
     
    OK - as have everyone else. Are you going to seriously claim the situation in the Middle East before and after the invasion of Iraq was the same? Do you think that Daesh would have had an inkling of a chance to form with Saddam and his security apparatus in power?

    I suppose the Iran/Iraq war was kick started by us? The invasion of Kuwait?

     

    Did I blame those on people like Bush and Blair? Did I blame the war of East-West Pakistan on them? Did I blame the border war of Chad and Libya on them? Did I blame the Safavid-Ottoman border wars on them? I was quite specific in exactly where I laid the blame and for what - so let's stick to the points I was making.

    I didn't even include Afghanistan because, assuming that that official narrative of 9/11 was correct, at least that had a vestige of legitimacy (though it could have been better handled). Let's get back to my original point; what I have not seen - from people like Faith Goldy and her ilk is any mention of why this mess started in the first place and who was responsible. All they do is use the current mess - that Muslims in that region now have to clean up* - in order to score even more talking points for Israel.

    Peace.

    *Yeah - we're a little pissed off at how disingenuous the whole position they take is:
    "The mosque was packed with hundreds of worshippers for Friday prayers in Egypt’s North Sinai when gunmen in military-style uniforms and masks appeared in a doorway and at windows. The ease with which they mounted an attack - killing more than 300 people in the worst bloodshed of its kind in Egypt’s modern history - highlighted the threat militant groups pose in the most populous Arab country. After four years of battling Islamic State in the Sinai, where the group has killed hundreds of soldiers and police, authorities still face an enemy with growing ambitions in Egypt, despite its defeats in Iraq, Syria and Libya."
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-egypt-security-mosque/islamic-state-raises-stakes-with-egypt-mosque-attack-idUSKBN1DQ0K0
  107. @iffen
    was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq

    If it makes you feel better go ahead and believe this. I agree that it was a mistake, but you people have been killing each other for centuries before we came on the scene. Even in the modern era Muslims seem to do okay with wars without our help. I suppose the Iran/Iraq war was kick started by us? The invasion of Kuwait? I suppose you blame the violence at partition on us. Let's make it simpler. What do you not blame on us?

    I suppose he was referring specifically to anti-Christian persecution, and it’s indeed true that one of the consequences of the Iraq war was the destruction (through expulsion/emigration) of much of Iraq’s Christian community (also of other minority groups like Mandaeans).
    US policy also has a curious habit of aiding and empowering the very worst actors and groups in the Islamic world…in Syria the US has been on the side of jihadis.
    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own. Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.

    • Replies: @Talha

    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own.
     
    Never said Muslims aren't responsible - I specifically stated that God will take to task the extremists for what they have done. We are absolutely responsible for dealing with the extremists in our midst.

    Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.
     
    We certainly have extremists in the Muslim world, no doubt about this. But, unfortunately, these kinds of people are able to operate freely when a country's entire military and police force has been dismantled and dismissed.

    You can see what happened between Croats and Serbs (without any reference to Muslims) in the aftermath of Yugoslavia falling apart to understand what happens when a state apparatus comes tumbling down that kept things in order.

    And when Muslims are actually dying by the hundreds to contain the situation and actually safeguard non-Muslims - do they or Islam get credit?
    https://twitter.com/manisarus/status/571349507310534656

    Peace.

    , @for-the-record
    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own. Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.

    The Christian communities in the Middle East, notably in Iraq and Syria, survived for 2,000 years, and were under no real danger from either Saddam Hussein or the Assads (the latter was in fact certainly their protector). What changed? Sure, in wartime situations there will be Muslim groups that terrorise Christians, but these situations could never have arisen without US-led or inspired intervention.
  108. @iffen
    was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq

    If it makes you feel better go ahead and believe this. I agree that it was a mistake, but you people have been killing each other for centuries before we came on the scene. Even in the modern era Muslims seem to do okay with wars without our help. I suppose the Iran/Iraq war was kick started by us? The invasion of Kuwait? I suppose you blame the violence at partition on us. Let's make it simpler. What do you not blame on us?

    I agree that it was a mistake, but you people have been killing each other for centuries before we came on the scene.

    OK – as have everyone else. Are you going to seriously claim the situation in the Middle East before and after the invasion of Iraq was the same? Do you think that Daesh would have had an inkling of a chance to form with Saddam and his security apparatus in power?

    I suppose the Iran/Iraq war was kick started by us? The invasion of Kuwait?

    Did I blame those on people like Bush and Blair? Did I blame the war of East-West Pakistan on them? Did I blame the border war of Chad and Libya on them? Did I blame the Safavid-Ottoman border wars on them? I was quite specific in exactly where I laid the blame and for what – so let’s stick to the points I was making.

    I didn’t even include Afghanistan because, assuming that that official narrative of 9/11 was correct, at least that had a vestige of legitimacy (though it could have been better handled). Let’s get back to my original point; what I have not seen – from people like Faith Goldy and her ilk is any mention of why this mess started in the first place and who was responsible. All they do is use the current mess – that Muslims in that region now have to clean up* – in order to score even more talking points for Israel.

    Peace.

    *Yeah – we’re a little pissed off at how disingenuous the whole position they take is:
    “The mosque was packed with hundreds of worshippers for Friday prayers in Egypt’s North Sinai when gunmen in military-style uniforms and masks appeared in a doorway and at windows. The ease with which they mounted an attack – killing more than 300 people in the worst bloodshed of its kind in Egypt’s modern history – highlighted the threat militant groups pose in the most populous Arab country. After four years of battling Islamic State in the Sinai, where the group has killed hundreds of soldiers and police, authorities still face an enemy with growing ambitions in Egypt, despite its defeats in Iraq, Syria and Libya.”

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-egypt-security-mosque/islamic-state-raises-stakes-with-egypt-mosque-attack-idUSKBN1DQ0K0

    • Replies: @iffen
    We didn’t come up with Salafism, Wahhabism or cause the Shia/Sunni split. AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    This is one who is willing to lay his white man’s burden down and leave ALL of you to your own devices.
  109. @German_reader
    I suppose he was referring specifically to anti-Christian persecution, and it's indeed true that one of the consequences of the Iraq war was the destruction (through expulsion/emigration) of much of Iraq's Christian community (also of other minority groups like Mandaeans).
    US policy also has a curious habit of aiding and empowering the very worst actors and groups in the Islamic world...in Syria the US has been on the side of jihadis.
    But it's pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own. Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.

    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own.

    Never said Muslims aren’t responsible – I specifically stated that God will take to task the extremists for what they have done. We are absolutely responsible for dealing with the extremists in our midst.

    Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.

    We certainly have extremists in the Muslim world, no doubt about this. But, unfortunately, these kinds of people are able to operate freely when a country’s entire military and police force has been dismantled and dismissed.

    You can see what happened between Croats and Serbs (without any reference to Muslims) in the aftermath of Yugoslavia falling apart to understand what happens when a state apparatus comes tumbling down that kept things in order.

    And when Muslims are actually dying by the hundreds to contain the situation and actually safeguard non-Muslims – do they or Islam get credit?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    But, unfortunately, these kinds of people are able to operate freely when a country’s entire military and police force has been dismantled and dismissed.
     
    iirc many of ISIS' leading members had belonged to Saddam Hussein's security forces, so the causal nexus isn't quite that simple.
    I agree though that US foreign policy in the Mideast has been disastrous.

    You can see what happened between Croats and Serbs (without any reference to Muslims) in the aftermath of Yugoslavia falling apart to understand what happens when a state apparatus comes tumbling down that kept things in order.
     
    That's a misreading of the Yugoslav situation, both Croats and Serbs had state structures of their own.
    I'd also say that the situation isn't comparable to what's happening in much of the Islamic world...Croats and Serbs were evenly matched, it was a fight about territory, with neither side being just 100% victim or aggressor...both sides had bitter memories of being victimized by the other (Croats having been dominated by the Serbs in inter-war Yugoslavia and also to some extent after 1945, the massacres committed by the Ustasha during WW2, and then the horrendous killings by Tito's forces in 1945).
    What's so striking about the persecution of Christians, Mandaeans, Yazidis and other minorities in Iraq is that the targets belong to largely powerless communities which haven't been able to do any violence to Muslims for centuries. It's a very one-sided process.

    And when Muslims are actually dying by the hundreds to contain the situation and actually safeguard non-Muslims – do they or Islam get credit?
     
    Peshmerga got a lot of positive press in Western media, so the answer is yes.
    , @Dmitry
    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians? And your response to blame on white people's actions.

    Also the Israel stuff is quite funny. 6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?

    I know we are on Unz website, where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion. But Pakistan has a population of 213 million people, and is thousands of kilometers away from Israel.
  110. @Beckow

    ...the people in the shadows who fund globalist politicians and own the media. Do you think those people are utopians?
     
    I think most of them are ideologues. In other words, they believe in either the goodness of it all (for mankind as a whole), or in its inevitability. A few might be hypocritical, some are skeptics, but generally the globalist onslaught couldn't go on without the elites being run by the true believers.

    And I am talking about the people 'in the shadows', not the known names. They believe this stuff.

    fair enough – i think there are a lot of true believers involved at the managerial level but imo the banking mafia are running the show from behind the scenes and they are consciously genocidal (in the sense of wanting to destroy all high IQ populations) but that’s not something i can prove.

  111. @Talha

    I agree that it was a mistake, but you people have been killing each other for centuries before we came on the scene.
     
    OK - as have everyone else. Are you going to seriously claim the situation in the Middle East before and after the invasion of Iraq was the same? Do you think that Daesh would have had an inkling of a chance to form with Saddam and his security apparatus in power?

    I suppose the Iran/Iraq war was kick started by us? The invasion of Kuwait?

     

    Did I blame those on people like Bush and Blair? Did I blame the war of East-West Pakistan on them? Did I blame the border war of Chad and Libya on them? Did I blame the Safavid-Ottoman border wars on them? I was quite specific in exactly where I laid the blame and for what - so let's stick to the points I was making.

    I didn't even include Afghanistan because, assuming that that official narrative of 9/11 was correct, at least that had a vestige of legitimacy (though it could have been better handled). Let's get back to my original point; what I have not seen - from people like Faith Goldy and her ilk is any mention of why this mess started in the first place and who was responsible. All they do is use the current mess - that Muslims in that region now have to clean up* - in order to score even more talking points for Israel.

    Peace.

    *Yeah - we're a little pissed off at how disingenuous the whole position they take is:
    "The mosque was packed with hundreds of worshippers for Friday prayers in Egypt’s North Sinai when gunmen in military-style uniforms and masks appeared in a doorway and at windows. The ease with which they mounted an attack - killing more than 300 people in the worst bloodshed of its kind in Egypt’s modern history - highlighted the threat militant groups pose in the most populous Arab country. After four years of battling Islamic State in the Sinai, where the group has killed hundreds of soldiers and police, authorities still face an enemy with growing ambitions in Egypt, despite its defeats in Iraq, Syria and Libya."
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-egypt-security-mosque/islamic-state-raises-stakes-with-egypt-mosque-attack-idUSKBN1DQ0K0

    We didn’t come up with Salafism, Wahhabism or cause the Shia/Sunni split. AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    This is one who is willing to lay his white man’s burden down and leave ALL of you to your own devices.

    • Replies: @Talha

    We didn’t come up with Salafism, Wahhabism or cause the Shia/Sunni split.
     
    Didn't blame them for that either - Saddam's jails had plenty of Salafi-Wahhabi extremists in them (the ones he didn't out and out execute anyway).

    AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.
     
    Correct - we are only responsible for protecting them and letting them live their lives. Again, if they don't have kids, not our problem. Also, we have historically had financial incentives to help the fence-sitters make a decision about joining the Ummah. Perpetuating some sort of equilibrium affirmative-action-type percentage is not our responsibility.

    I'm 100% open to both letting all the Christians that have been pushed out come back and even having Muslim countries help them financially to settle back in - in fact, I think places like Saudi and some of the other Gulf monarchies that have been meddling owe them that.


    This is one who is willing to lay his white man’s burden down and leave ALL of you to your own devices.
     
    Beautiful, that's all someone like myself asks for - and why I marched against the wars multiple times even though I was no fan of Saddam. US foreign policy in the region seems to have the anti-Midas touch; everything turns to crap.

    Peace.

    , @for-the-record
    AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    1867: Total population of Iraq 1.3 million (Christians ?, unlikely more than 200,000)

    Christian population Iraq:

    2003 1.5 million
    2018 (est.) 250,000

    So when did Christians in Iraq start "dwindling"?
  112. @iffen
    We didn’t come up with Salafism, Wahhabism or cause the Shia/Sunni split. AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    This is one who is willing to lay his white man’s burden down and leave ALL of you to your own devices.

    We didn’t come up with Salafism, Wahhabism or cause the Shia/Sunni split.

    Didn’t blame them for that either – Saddam’s jails had plenty of Salafi-Wahhabi extremists in them (the ones he didn’t out and out execute anyway).

    AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    Correct – we are only responsible for protecting them and letting them live their lives. Again, if they don’t have kids, not our problem. Also, we have historically had financial incentives to help the fence-sitters make a decision about joining the Ummah. Perpetuating some sort of equilibrium affirmative-action-type percentage is not our responsibility.

    I’m 100% open to both letting all the Christians that have been pushed out come back and even having Muslim countries help them financially to settle back in – in fact, I think places like Saudi and some of the other Gulf monarchies that have been meddling owe them that.

    This is one who is willing to lay his white man’s burden down and leave ALL of you to your own devices.

    Beautiful, that’s all someone like myself asks for – and why I marched against the wars multiple times even though I was no fan of Saddam. US foreign policy in the region seems to have the anti-Midas touch; everything turns to crap.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    I’m 100% open to both letting all the Christians that have been pushed out come back

    Do you want your Hindus back? Since you are here that is a least one open spot in Pakistan.
  113. @Talha

    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own.
     
    Never said Muslims aren't responsible - I specifically stated that God will take to task the extremists for what they have done. We are absolutely responsible for dealing with the extremists in our midst.

    Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.
     
    We certainly have extremists in the Muslim world, no doubt about this. But, unfortunately, these kinds of people are able to operate freely when a country's entire military and police force has been dismantled and dismissed.

    You can see what happened between Croats and Serbs (without any reference to Muslims) in the aftermath of Yugoslavia falling apart to understand what happens when a state apparatus comes tumbling down that kept things in order.

    And when Muslims are actually dying by the hundreds to contain the situation and actually safeguard non-Muslims - do they or Islam get credit?
    https://twitter.com/manisarus/status/571349507310534656

    Peace.

    But, unfortunately, these kinds of people are able to operate freely when a country’s entire military and police force has been dismantled and dismissed.

    iirc many of ISIS’ leading members had belonged to Saddam Hussein’s security forces, so the causal nexus isn’t quite that simple.
    I agree though that US foreign policy in the Mideast has been disastrous.

    You can see what happened between Croats and Serbs (without any reference to Muslims) in the aftermath of Yugoslavia falling apart to understand what happens when a state apparatus comes tumbling down that kept things in order.

    That’s a misreading of the Yugoslav situation, both Croats and Serbs had state structures of their own.
    I’d also say that the situation isn’t comparable to what’s happening in much of the Islamic world…Croats and Serbs were evenly matched, it was a fight about territory, with neither side being just 100% victim or aggressor…both sides had bitter memories of being victimized by the other (Croats having been dominated by the Serbs in inter-war Yugoslavia and also to some extent after 1945, the massacres committed by the Ustasha during WW2, and then the horrendous killings by Tito’s forces in 1945).
    What’s so striking about the persecution of Christians, Mandaeans, Yazidis and other minorities in Iraq is that the targets belong to largely powerless communities which haven’t been able to do any violence to Muslims for centuries. It’s a very one-sided process.

    And when Muslims are actually dying by the hundreds to contain the situation and actually safeguard non-Muslims – do they or Islam get credit?

    Peshmerga got a lot of positive press in Western media, so the answer is yes.

  114. @Talha

    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own.
     
    Never said Muslims aren't responsible - I specifically stated that God will take to task the extremists for what they have done. We are absolutely responsible for dealing with the extremists in our midst.

    Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.
     
    We certainly have extremists in the Muslim world, no doubt about this. But, unfortunately, these kinds of people are able to operate freely when a country's entire military and police force has been dismantled and dismissed.

    You can see what happened between Croats and Serbs (without any reference to Muslims) in the aftermath of Yugoslavia falling apart to understand what happens when a state apparatus comes tumbling down that kept things in order.

    And when Muslims are actually dying by the hundreds to contain the situation and actually safeguard non-Muslims - do they or Islam get credit?
    https://twitter.com/manisarus/status/571349507310534656

    Peace.

    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians? And your response to blame on white people’s actions.

    Also the Israel stuff is quite funny. 6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?

    I know we are on Unz website, where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion. But Pakistan has a population of 213 million people, and is thousands of kilometers away from Israel.

    • Replies: @Talha

    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians?
     
    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said...I stated nothign about Pakistan - YOU are bringing it into the mix. I am specifically talking about the Middle East and specifically the parts affected by growth of the Daesh franchise.

    6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?
     
    That's not what I stated either. The leadership of Israel was absolutely a part and parcel of selling the war on Iraq - this is without doubt and a matter of public record. The dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are seeing in the Middle East right now. It would help tremendously if the Israeli leadership didn't keep cheer leading for the US to fight even more wars in the region* - next target being Iran.

    where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion.
     
    I'm n0t in that box and never have been and you know it.

    With all due respect - please don't push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Peace.

    *"However, recent developments show that Syrian President Assad is a thousand times more dangerous than ISIS...There is concern by some in Israel’s leadership that the U.S. administration may consider the attack on the chemical weapon installations in Syria as the farewell act of U.S. military involvement in Syria. This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory."
    http://jcpa.org/assad-is-more-dangerous-than-isis/
  115. @AaronB
    Boring isn't quite the right word. More like soulless, empty, a life based on hustling and pointlessly extending the reach of technology. People are quite pleasant, especially if you are on vacation, but once you get to know them they are angry inside and have the dull seriousness of the uncultured barbarian. Sophisticated cultures understand life is about refined aesthetic and spiritual enjoyment.

    Immigrants from culturally rich countries tend to complain about how boring and empty life is in America - its actually extremely common.

    It’s difficult to judge another people’s culture. Only an American can probably understand or appreciate the American culture and personality.

    But sufficient to say, American culture is a very different one. Culture shock will be a lot larger if you go to America, than if you go to West Europe.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Culture shock will be a lot larger if you go to America, than if you go to West Europe.
     
    For a Russian? That's interesting, could you elaborate?
  116. @Dmitry
    It's difficult to judge another people's culture. Only an American can probably understand or appreciate the American culture and personality.

    But sufficient to say, American culture is a very different one. Culture shock will be a lot larger if you go to America, than if you go to West Europe.

    Culture shock will be a lot larger if you go to America, than if you go to West Europe.

    For a Russian? That’s interesting, could you elaborate?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Russia is just a European country, even if there are a couple of areas where things can be very different like politics (although politics is actually quite unique in most European countries). I didn't feel much culture shock in Europe. (And there, mainly with some Latin things in Spain and France).

    I'm not an expert on America at all. But needless to say it is quite different there, including (what I'm told from people who live there) the way people are socializing.
    , @Yevardian
    Something I could never get used to was being expected to smile and make small talk in every damn social interaction, no matter how trivial.

    They continue to be mightily proud of themselves and I don’t believe that whatever forces set them in motion a few generations ago to conquer and enslave their neighbors are totally vanished.
     
    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe, with the partial exception of Scandinavia.
  117. @Daniel Chieh
    It's all fun and games until you get doxxed for not being in line with the ever-shifting zeistgeist of wokeness.

    If you are visitor in a foreign country, you should not say anything publicly about politics anyway.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Oh, you think its just limited to politics. That's adorable.

    The personal is political.
  118. All this talk of cucky Germans having become a country of foreigner lovers is a big myth, in my personal experience.

    In my late teens I spent a whole winter learning German with a native family in a small town of Rheinland-Pfalz, West Germany. I was the only foreigner in town, with the exception of a Dutchman. With a lot of effort I did manage to get a good grasp of the language but it wasn’t easy. Most locals were as unwelcoming as it gets. They would speak their Frankish dialect all the time but frown at my using their colloquialisms, if I ever allowed myself to.

    We once went shopping to a bigger town nearby and I remember making some casual comment at the simple sight of some Turks in the central square. My companions would inform me that in the weekends “it got worse”. I also remember their remarks when we visited a family member at a hospital and passed through the maternity section where most newborn babies seemed to be Turkish, “how ugly, all that black hair…”.

    One good thing about that long winter is that I got to read an original copy of Mein Kampf, written in Gothic characters. This family had managed to hide it away from the American occupation forces and it was now passed from generation to generation. This was a family “open” enough to want to host foreign students.

    Later on I worked in multilingual support centers across Europe for different IT companies and it was common knowledge among everybody that German/Austrian customers were the most difficult to deal with. Scandinavians, Dutch, Brits and Southern Europeans were much more easy going. The French were hot and cold. Eventually, an English workmate shared with me the big secret of how to deal with German customers. Pretend that you don’t understand their language and force them to speak in English. It worked wonders. They would slow down and go on the defensive. Problems that appeared insurmountable suddenly became easy to manage.

    I’ve met some nice Germans -outside of Germany- but, as Gunther Grass (if memory serves) warned, don’t ever trust them too much. They continue to be mightily proud of themselves and I don’t believe that whatever forces set them in motion a few generations ago to conquer and enslave their neighbors are totally vanished.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Probably a sound characterization of Germans still.

    But Germans don’t have children. So nothing they believe or think is going to matter much. They are a rapidly aging, dwindling people. They won’t be a threat even to the invaders among them, let alone to any foreign country.

  119. @Dmitry
    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians? And your response to blame on white people's actions.

    Also the Israel stuff is quite funny. 6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?

    I know we are on Unz website, where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion. But Pakistan has a population of 213 million people, and is thousands of kilometers away from Israel.

    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians?

    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix. I am specifically talking about the Middle East and specifically the parts affected by growth of the Daesh franchise.

    6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?

    That’s not what I stated either. The leadership of Israel was absolutely a part and parcel of selling the war on Iraq – this is without doubt and a matter of public record. The dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are seeing in the Middle East right now. It would help tremendously if the Israeli leadership didn’t keep cheer leading for the US to fight even more wars in the region* – next target being Iran.

    where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion.

    I’m n0t in that box and never have been and you know it.

    With all due respect – please don’t push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Peace.

    *”However, recent developments show that Syrian President Assad is a thousand times more dangerous than ISIS…There is concern by some in Israel’s leadership that the U.S. administration may consider the attack on the chemical weapon installations in Syria as the farewell act of U.S. military involvement in Syria. This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory.”

    http://jcpa.org/assad-is-more-dangerous-than-isis/

    • Replies: @iffen
    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

    When it suits your purposes, otherwise it is here a Ummah, there a Ummah, hell, Ummah in Yuma.

    , @iffen
    With all due respect – please don’t push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Speak for yourself. :)

    This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory.”

    Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps our presence in the ME restrains Israel? If we leave you might run out of virgins.

    , @Dmitry

    Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

     

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.

    Pakistan's government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often, if you believe the websites like Al Jazeera.

    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion (yet America allows to you, rightfully, a freedom to choose a different religion from the majority, or no religion).

    This is a relevant issue in this context, especially if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/pakistan-sentences-christian-man-death-blasphemy-170916091856674.html


    dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are
     
    Humans are not dominoes. At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.

    I'm not fan or any war in Middle East which is brought from outsiders, especially not American wars - which have included nuclear bombing Japan, killing millions of Vietnamese with chemical weapons, etc.

    America's Iraq invasion, was based on a plan in which they estimated the country and people were more "reasonable" and "stable" than they are, and would emerge as some harmonious democracy immediately after.

    Saddam was brutal, because this was kind of government that could prevent the country from disintegrating. America removed Saddam, contributed something to further brutalization in Iraq. But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.

    It's not America making Iraqis or Islamists build bombs, hide them in civilians markets, and murder their countrymen, over and over for years, (until news does not even report anymore).

  120. @Talha

    We didn’t come up with Salafism, Wahhabism or cause the Shia/Sunni split.
     
    Didn't blame them for that either - Saddam's jails had plenty of Salafi-Wahhabi extremists in them (the ones he didn't out and out execute anyway).

    AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.
     
    Correct - we are only responsible for protecting them and letting them live their lives. Again, if they don't have kids, not our problem. Also, we have historically had financial incentives to help the fence-sitters make a decision about joining the Ummah. Perpetuating some sort of equilibrium affirmative-action-type percentage is not our responsibility.

    I'm 100% open to both letting all the Christians that have been pushed out come back and even having Muslim countries help them financially to settle back in - in fact, I think places like Saudi and some of the other Gulf monarchies that have been meddling owe them that.


    This is one who is willing to lay his white man’s burden down and leave ALL of you to your own devices.
     
    Beautiful, that's all someone like myself asks for - and why I marched against the wars multiple times even though I was no fan of Saddam. US foreign policy in the region seems to have the anti-Midas touch; everything turns to crap.

    Peace.

    I’m 100% open to both letting all the Christians that have been pushed out come back

    Do you want your Hindus back? Since you are here that is a least one open spot in Pakistan.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Since my family are Muhajirs from Uttar Pradesh, we already vacated many spots for arriving Hindus in India. The population transfers went both ways. But yes, any Hindu or Sikh that was pushed off of their lawful property illegally and can prove it, should have the right of return to Pakistan proper.

    Basically seconding this guy:
    “Hindus can return to Pakistan, says first Pakistani Hindu to win NA elections“
    https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/hindus-can-return-to-pakistan-says-first-pakistani-hindu-to-win-na-elections/1272637/

    Peace.
  121. @Talha

    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians?
     
    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said...I stated nothign about Pakistan - YOU are bringing it into the mix. I am specifically talking about the Middle East and specifically the parts affected by growth of the Daesh franchise.

    6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?
     
    That's not what I stated either. The leadership of Israel was absolutely a part and parcel of selling the war on Iraq - this is without doubt and a matter of public record. The dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are seeing in the Middle East right now. It would help tremendously if the Israeli leadership didn't keep cheer leading for the US to fight even more wars in the region* - next target being Iran.

    where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion.
     
    I'm n0t in that box and never have been and you know it.

    With all due respect - please don't push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Peace.

    *"However, recent developments show that Syrian President Assad is a thousand times more dangerous than ISIS...There is concern by some in Israel’s leadership that the U.S. administration may consider the attack on the chemical weapon installations in Syria as the farewell act of U.S. military involvement in Syria. This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory."
    http://jcpa.org/assad-is-more-dangerous-than-isis/

    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

    When it suits your purposes, otherwise it is here a Ummah, there a Ummah, hell, Ummah in Yuma.

    • Replies: @Talha
    But I didn’t blame the extremism in Pakistan on the invasion of Iraq. So I don’t understand why it is relevant to the current plight of Middle East Christians nor is there anything close to a flight of Christians out of Pakistan - not to mention they aren’t some ancient community from a pre-Islamic past.

    Peace.
  122. @German_reader

    Culture shock will be a lot larger if you go to America, than if you go to West Europe.
     
    For a Russian? That's interesting, could you elaborate?

    Russia is just a European country, even if there are a couple of areas where things can be very different like politics (although politics is actually quite unique in most European countries). I didn’t feel much culture shock in Europe. (And there, mainly with some Latin things in Spain and France).

    I’m not an expert on America at all. But needless to say it is quite different there, including (what I’m told from people who live there) the way people are socializing.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    Russia is just a European country
     
    But you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years because of communism, I would have expected some lingering effect of that (which certainly exists in relations between West and East Germany which were only divided for 40 years).
    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
    Thanks for your answer.
  123. @Talha

    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians?
     
    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said...I stated nothign about Pakistan - YOU are bringing it into the mix. I am specifically talking about the Middle East and specifically the parts affected by growth of the Daesh franchise.

    6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?
     
    That's not what I stated either. The leadership of Israel was absolutely a part and parcel of selling the war on Iraq - this is without doubt and a matter of public record. The dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are seeing in the Middle East right now. It would help tremendously if the Israeli leadership didn't keep cheer leading for the US to fight even more wars in the region* - next target being Iran.

    where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion.
     
    I'm n0t in that box and never have been and you know it.

    With all due respect - please don't push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Peace.

    *"However, recent developments show that Syrian President Assad is a thousand times more dangerous than ISIS...There is concern by some in Israel’s leadership that the U.S. administration may consider the attack on the chemical weapon installations in Syria as the farewell act of U.S. military involvement in Syria. This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory."
    http://jcpa.org/assad-is-more-dangerous-than-isis/

    With all due respect – please don’t push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Speak for yourself. :)

    This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory.”

    Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps our presence in the ME restrains Israel? If we leave you might run out of virgins.

    • Replies: @Talha

    Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps our presence in the ME restrains Israel?
     
    No - it is fairly obvious that we smash up countries Israel could not. See the war in Lebanon as an example; the power disparity has changed.

    Peace.
  124. @Dmitry
    Russia is just a European country, even if there are a couple of areas where things can be very different like politics (although politics is actually quite unique in most European countries). I didn't feel much culture shock in Europe. (And there, mainly with some Latin things in Spain and France).

    I'm not an expert on America at all. But needless to say it is quite different there, including (what I'm told from people who live there) the way people are socializing.

    Russia is just a European country

    But you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years because of communism, I would have expected some lingering effect of that (which certainly exists in relations between West and East Germany which were only divided for 40 years).
    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
    Thanks for your answer.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    But you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years
     
    Yes, if by '70 years' you mean '1070 years'. Russia never had open intercourse with Europe, not unless you count coming in and toppling your oppressive regimes as 'intercourse'.

    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
     
    USA culture is alien to everyone, including Americans themselves. (Thus the phenomenon of American self-hate.) USA culture is an artificial, inhuman creation.
    , @Dmitry

    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
    Thanks for your answer.
     
    For some concrete ways.

    Russia in reality, easily one of the most secular countries in Europe. Modernity of lifestyle not different, except in material level, than neighbours of Northern Europe.

    America on the other hand - more like a Middle Eastern country in its religious style, which effects people's whole lifestyle. Probably even the easiest way to make friends for Americans, is to join your church.

    Young Americans have religious rock festivals, and often find their friends and girlfriends through their church (or Scientology Centre, Mosque, Synagogue, etc). I'm not sure there is parallel for Europe. American religious life is a lot more like a Middle Eastern country in this dimension.

    (Obviously, with qualification - America has a huge advantage since they have a very well designed system to separate religious and political life).

    Likewise, for urban planning, which is a very large determinant in culture shock, most million and over cities in Russia are an incompetent version of European layout of similar size city.

    On the other hand, American city layout is radically different and original, and designed around car driving, and also possibly including more exotic goals like separation of racial groups. Driving around Los Angeles - and it's a completely new kind of city layout, which is nowhere in Europe. (Maybe in Brazil or Mexico it is more similar?)

    We could also write about more vague dimensions like "collectivist mentality". Of course, Russia is on a more similar collectivist mentality as other Northern European countries - Sweden, Germany, etc, than America.


    you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years because of communism, I would have expected some lingering effect of that (which certainly exists in relations between West and East Germany which were only divided for 40 years).
     
    Well Italy has Mussolini for 20 years.

    Spain has Franco for almost 40 years.

    Germany has Hitler, for 12 years, and GDR another 40 years.

    A lot of countries in Europe have shit governments. In case of Germany, it was far more extreme than everyone else, if for shorter time.

  125. @iffen
    I’m 100% open to both letting all the Christians that have been pushed out come back

    Do you want your Hindus back? Since you are here that is a least one open spot in Pakistan.

    Since my family are Muhajirs from Uttar Pradesh, we already vacated many spots for arriving Hindus in India. The population transfers went both ways. But yes, any Hindu or Sikh that was pushed off of their lawful property illegally and can prove it, should have the right of return to Pakistan proper.

    Basically seconding this guy:
    “Hindus can return to Pakistan, says first Pakistani Hindu to win NA elections“

    https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/hindus-can-return-to-pakistan-says-first-pakistani-hindu-to-win-na-elections/1272637/

    Peace.

  126. @German_reader
    I suppose he was referring specifically to anti-Christian persecution, and it's indeed true that one of the consequences of the Iraq war was the destruction (through expulsion/emigration) of much of Iraq's Christian community (also of other minority groups like Mandaeans).
    US policy also has a curious habit of aiding and empowering the very worst actors and groups in the Islamic world...in Syria the US has been on the side of jihadis.
    But it's pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own. Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.

    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own. Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.

    The Christian communities in the Middle East, notably in Iraq and Syria, survived for 2,000 years, and were under no real danger from either Saddam Hussein or the Assads (the latter was in fact certainly their protector). What changed? Sure, in wartime situations there will be Muslim groups that terrorise Christians, but these situations could never have arisen without US-led or inspired intervention.

    • Agree: utu, YetAnotherAnon
  127. @German_reader
    Official definition by the Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge:

    https://www.bamf.de/DE/Service/Left/Glossary/_function/glossar.html?lv3=3198544


    "Eine Person hat dann einen Migrationshintergrund, wenn sie selbst oder mindestens ein Elternteil nicht mit deutscher Staatsangehörigkeit geboren ist."

    Die Definition umfasst im Einzelnen folgende Personen:
    1. zugewanderte und nicht zugewanderte Ausländer;
    2. zugewanderte und nicht zugewanderte Eingebürgerte;
    3. (Spät-)Aussiedler;
    4. mit deutscher Staatsangehörigkeit geborene Nachkommen der drei zuvor genannten Gruppen.
     
    "A person has a migrant background if he or at least one of his parents hasn't been born with German citizenship.
    The definition comprehends the following groups:
    1. resident foreigners, both those who have immigrated themselves and those who haven't immigrated (e.g. children of foreigners born in Germany who for some reason haven't acquired German citizenship - this was more common before the reform of citizenship laws in the late 1990s).
    2. people who have been naturalized, both those who have immigrated themselves and those who haven't immigrated (e.g. Turks born in Germany who acquired German citizenship as adults).
    3. ethnic Germans from eastern Europe, former Soviet Union.
    4. descendants of the first three groups with German citizenship."

    That definition seems to be from 2017.
    They also mention that the census of 2011 used a somewhat different definition and defined "migrant background" as applying to every foreigner or German who has immigrated to the federal republic since 1955 and everybody who has at least one parent who has immigrated since 1955.


    Nazi_reader...lol. Since you didn't put it in quotes like in the previous thread, I guess that means you consider me a cartoon character.

    Sorry, it was a joke that only existed in my mind. But you got it.

    Thanks for explanation. This I think agrees with the categories form this table:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/TablesMigrationStatusSex.html

    Population in private households with migrant background in the narrow sense was 23.5% in 2017. These are the subcategories:

    (1) Germans with migration experience of their own – 6.4% (?naturalized migrants including ethnic Germans from, say, Russia?)

    (2) Germans without migration experience of their own – 5.64%. (?2nd and higher generation of migrants who naturalized?)
    (3) Foreigners with migration experience of their own – 8.71%. (?foreigners residents?)
    (4) Foreigners without migration experience of their own -1.81%. (?children born in Germany of foreign residents?)

    The category (2) seems to me the most difficult comprehend. Do they keep track of your parent or grandparent status?

    Now this table gives the number of children with and w/o migrant background for 2017.

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    For under 5 years of age it is 60.9% for w/o and 39.1% ‘children with migrant background’.

    Assuming that ‘children with migrant background’ are children from ‘households with migrant background in the narrow sense’ then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    Obviously it would be hard to to get ethnic data but it would be important to know how many of 23.5% households are actually Europeans: ethnic Germans, ethnic Slavs, ethnic Romanian, Hungarian, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Italians. If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.
     
    A few years ago I might have agreed (though maybe I was naive back then), but given the situation since 2014/15 I find such optimism misplaced.
    , @notanon

    Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1.
     
    the street i grew up in had multiple immigrant families with 8+ kids - my best friend at the time was one of twelve.

    (this is another thing that causes white flight - if you get into a fight you and your brothers/cousins are almost always going to be massively outnumbered by the other kid's brothers and cousins)

    i think it may be a sense of threat from going from a place where they're a majority to where they're a minority and one of the reasons immigrant birth rates often drop a lot in the 2nd generation is by then they tend to separate out into different ethnic enclaves where their group is the majority.
    , @Mitleser
    Nationalities of foreigners in the FRG: https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_ForeignPopulation/Gender.html

    Top Five: Turks, Poles, Syrians, Italians and Romanians

    Afghans outnumber Hungarians.
    , @Mitleser
    More terrifying numbers

    "Germany is continuously experiencing high influx of irregular migrants, with 460 people applying for asylum every day for the first time," writes the EU Commission. The main countries of origin are Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Turkey and Iran.
     
    https://archive.is/wCoII#selection-3757.200-3757.472

    And they admit that they underestimate illegal immigration and the real number is higher.
    , @Mitleser

    Assuming that ‘children with migrant background’ are children from ‘households with migrant background in the narrow sense’ then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )
     
    TFR in Berlin in 2015 and 2016

    https://twitter.com/KrahMax/status/978948879931662337
    , @songbird
    During the "refugee crisis" the numbers I heard thrown around were, I think about 10% of the age cohort of males who were under 30, in Germany, for newcomers in that single year. The expectation was that they would, at a minimum, be reunited with an equal number of females, but probably more relatives.

    I don't how accurate that number was but as an American I'd give a few lessons:
    1.) advocates/the press/government downplay the numbers significantly
    2.) demographic change happens much faster than practically anyone in Europe realizes
    3.) you cannot stop it by having more responsible/honest politicians or hoping they obey the law after the fact and deport them. It is the system.
    4.) it can only be stopped by dramatically changing the incentives, at every level
  128. @iffen
    With all due respect – please don’t push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Speak for yourself. :)

    This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory.”

    Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps our presence in the ME restrains Israel? If we leave you might run out of virgins.

    Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps our presence in the ME restrains Israel?

    No – it is fairly obvious that we smash up countries Israel could not. See the war in Lebanon as an example; the power disparity has changed.

    Peace.

  129. @iffen
    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

    When it suits your purposes, otherwise it is here a Ummah, there a Ummah, hell, Ummah in Yuma.

    But I didn’t blame the extremism in Pakistan on the invasion of Iraq. So I don’t understand why it is relevant to the current plight of Middle East Christians nor is there anything close to a flight of Christians out of Pakistan – not to mention they aren’t some ancient community from a pre-Islamic past.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    I don’t know why you have such a hard-on for Israel. What did Israel ever do to Pakistan or India? Oh wait, you don’t believe in the concept of nation states, so that couldn’t be it. You’re not worried about Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, etc., etc., etc. You are worried about Muslims, so don’t try to pick and choose and then point a finger at people who do the same.
    , @Beckow
    I am not an expert on the Middle East, so I usually refrain from commenting, but you make a valid point: 2003 Bush-Blair attack on Iraq is the root cause. And it has remained largely unexamined and without any consequences for the geniuses in Washington and London who started it.

    It is very easy to point to other other issues in the ME, etc... But it is a fact that in 2003 US-UK without a provocation attacked and brutally destroyed Iraq, then proceeded to Libya and Syria, in each case destroying societies that were by no means perfect - or even in any sense particularly good - and caused incredible suffering. They were not there to win a war, West is incapable of winning in a traditional sense because they don't have any realistic war or post-war plans. They went there to cause a huge suffering - and that's what they did. With no consequences for the organisers. That is something that undermines any talk of democracy and values. How do you not hold people accountable? What kind of a democracy has no accountability?
  130. @iffen
    We didn’t come up with Salafism, Wahhabism or cause the Shia/Sunni split. AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    This is one who is willing to lay his white man’s burden down and leave ALL of you to your own devices.

    AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    1867: Total population of Iraq 1.3 million (Christians ?, unlikely more than 200,000)

    Christian population Iraq:

    2003 1.5 million
    2018 (est.) 250,000

    So when did Christians in Iraq start “dwindling”?

    • Replies: @iffen
    You have an Iraqi census from 1867. That is astonishing. I give up.
  131. @Talha

    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians?
     
    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said...I stated nothign about Pakistan - YOU are bringing it into the mix. I am specifically talking about the Middle East and specifically the parts affected by growth of the Daesh franchise.

    6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?
     
    That's not what I stated either. The leadership of Israel was absolutely a part and parcel of selling the war on Iraq - this is without doubt and a matter of public record. The dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are seeing in the Middle East right now. It would help tremendously if the Israeli leadership didn't keep cheer leading for the US to fight even more wars in the region* - next target being Iran.

    where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion.
     
    I'm n0t in that box and never have been and you know it.

    With all due respect - please don't push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Peace.

    *"However, recent developments show that Syrian President Assad is a thousand times more dangerous than ISIS...There is concern by some in Israel’s leadership that the U.S. administration may consider the attack on the chemical weapon installations in Syria as the farewell act of U.S. military involvement in Syria. This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory."
    http://jcpa.org/assad-is-more-dangerous-than-isis/

    Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.

    Pakistan’s government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often, if you believe the websites like Al Jazeera.

    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion (yet America allows to you, rightfully, a freedom to choose a different religion from the majority, or no religion).

    This is a relevant issue in this context, especially if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/pakistan-sentences-christian-man-death-blasphemy-170916091856674.html

    dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are

    Humans are not dominoes. At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.

    I’m not fan or any war in Middle East which is brought from outsiders, especially not American wars – which have included nuclear bombing Japan, killing millions of Vietnamese with chemical weapons, etc.

    America’s Iraq invasion, was based on a plan in which they estimated the country and people were more “reasonable” and “stable” than they are, and would emerge as some harmonious democracy immediately after.

    Saddam was brutal, because this was kind of government that could prevent the country from disintegrating. America removed Saddam, contributed something to further brutalization in Iraq. But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.

    It’s not America making Iraqis or Islamists build bombs, hide them in civilians markets, and murder their countrymen, over and over for years, (until news does not even report anymore).

    • Replies: @iffen
    killing millions of Vietnamese with chemical weapons, etc.

    BS. Steaming pile.
    , @Talha

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.
     
    I know more about those countries than you as well. In fact, this weekend I'll be meeting up with a Libyan brother from the old days at UCLA who is coming to visit the area; I will be asking what he knows coming out of Libya. I know Iraqi brothers too, Kurdish as well. My wife's sister married and Egyptian, he was there during the Arab Spring wrapping up his last years before coming state-side. I've also traveled through Egypt, even in the parts where tourists don't care to go.

    Pakistan’s government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often
     
    Here is what is going on:
    "Although Pakistan's law takes the accusation of blasphemy very seriously and people have been sentenced to death, no one has ever actually been executed."
    https://www.rt.com/news/441190-blasphemy-death-sentence-rally-pakistan/

    There are one or two high-profile cases right now.


    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion
     
    Complete nonsense. First, I'm an American so go talk to a Pakistani. Second, the government of Pakistan does not willy-nilly arrest and kill off Christians for being Christians. What Pakistan has a serious problem with is vigilante violence; people accusing others of blasphemy and simply committing violence outside of court. Many cases don't even get to court. The people who do this kind of thing should be punished (as was the guy who killed Salman Taseer).

    The law says people are punished for blasphemy - as they should be in a Muslim country; so the government is not trying to punish innocent people, but someone who broke the law. The only questions here are; is the evidence substantial, is the trial open and fair, does the accused have the ability to defend themselves and is there an appeals process. If the trial was not carried out justly, then the accused should be acquitted - end of story. The government of Pakistan should indeed put its foot down and not yield to the demands of mobs.


    if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable
     
    Completely separate question; I was simply interested in pointing out Faith Goldy was a Zionist shill. I'm not interested in convincing you the Islamic model is preferable any more than I'm interested in convincing you that you should like the same dessert that I do - I've only been interested in making clear and accurate what it is; if you like it, cool - if you don't, cool.

    At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.
     
    Correct - and the Muslim extremists are being fought and killed by other Muslims in Muslim lands and thousands of Muslims have died trying to do so. A scholar I have cited often, Sh. Muhammad Yacoubi (ra) - who my own spiritual teacher learned the text of 'Nur ul-Idaah' under - stated it was an obligation to fight Daesh:
    http://www.refutingisis.com/

    My point was, the Muslim world is cleaning up the mess others handed to them. Daesh takfiris are killing non-Muslims and will continue to try to kill them in territories they control until they have been brought to heel. It is easier to fight them when you actually have a working army and police force and security apparatus. I cited how Egypt is fighting the extremists...question; do you think that fight would go better or worse if we invaded and destroyed Egypt's' army - to ask the question is to answer it.


    America’s Iraq invasion, was based on
     
    So you mean basically the line Netanyahu was feeding them..."I guarantee" he said. Not to mention the other Neocon fools who knew nothing about the region.

    But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.
     
    Correct, which is good because a majority of Iraqis weren't actually killing each other. There was serious sectarian violence for which each person involved will answer to God as well as the extremists that got out of control - they bear full responsibility for their actions. Just like looters during a riot, but can we agree that it is a stupid thing to do to complain why the cops aren't doing anything about armed and rioting mobs burning out shops when you've bombed out three quarters of the precincts? Can we at least agree to the rules of basic mathematics?

    Can we also agree that if you have rulers in the Muslim world (say like the King of Morocco and the government who is protective of the Jewish population) and a population in which the minorities are living in generally good terms...maybe, just maybe it's not a smart idea to topple that government and bomb the country's infrastructure so the people become desperate and law and order breaks down?

    Peace.

    , @songbird

    America’s Iraq invasion, was based on a plan in which they estimated the country and people were more “reasonable” and “stable” than they are, and would emerge as some harmonious democracy immediately after.
     
    This is to me a very alarming thought: Bush was Merkel with more firepower. He exported globalism; Merkel imported it. Their essential beliefs were indistinguishable. The main differences were their capabilities and the geography.
    , @YetAnotherAnon
    "It’s not America making Iraqis or Islamists build bombs, hide them in civilians markets, and murder their countrymen, over and over for years, (until news does not even report anymore)."

    No, but in Syria, Libya and Iraq there were stable (if authoritarian and brutal) regimes which afforded security to most people. US/UK/Saudis smashed those regimes (or tried to in Syria's case, inshallah the Lion of his people will triumph despite looking more like a meerkat).

    Bemoaning religious or tribal violence and saying its not your fault is like leaving the henhouse unlocked then blaming the fox for being a fox. America broke it, America bought it.

    If Syrians/Iraqis/Libyans were capable of peaceful internal coexistence they wouldn't have needed strongman leaders in the beginning.

  132. Lebanon as an example; the power disparity has changed.

    Lebanon was created to give the Christians in Lebanon a chance to survive, but the country was destroyed by people from another religious group. I can’t quite think of the name of that religious group, it’s right on the edge of my brain, I just can’t …

    • Replies: @Talha
    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war? The word you are looking for is “Jews”...

    Peace.
    , @republic
    Last census was in 1932!
  133. @iffen
    Lebanon as an example; the power disparity has changed.


    Lebanon was created to give the Christians in Lebanon a chance to survive, but the country was destroyed by people from another religious group. I can't quite think of the name of that religious group, it's right on the edge of my brain, I just can't ...

    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war? The word you are looking for is “Jews”…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war?
     
    Umm, didn't the civil war start in 1975, with the Israeli invasion coming only in 1982?
    Anyway, disturbing that this thread is now about the Mideast, I guess I'll have to take this as another sign that Germans are exiting the stage of history. Oh well, I guess at least we'll always be remembered for the Nazis.
  134. @utu
    Sorry, it was a joke that only existed in my mind. But you got it.

    Thanks for explanation. This I think agrees with the categories form this table:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/TablesMigrationStatusSex.html

    Population in private households with migrant background in the narrow sense was 23.5% in 2017. These are the subcategories:

    (1) Germans with migration experience of their own - 6.4% (?naturalized migrants including ethnic Germans from, say, Russia?)

    (2) Germans without migration experience of their own - 5.64%. (?2nd and higher generation of migrants who naturalized?)
    (3) Foreigners with migration experience of their own - 8.71%. (?foreigners residents?)
    (4) Foreigners without migration experience of their own -1.81%. (?children born in Germany of foreign residents?)

    The category (2) seems to me the most difficult comprehend. Do they keep track of your parent or grandparent status?


    Now this table gives the number of children with and w/o migrant background for 2017.
    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    For under 5 years of age it is 60.9% for w/o and 39.1% 'children with migrant background'.

    Assuming that 'children with migrant background' are children from 'households with migrant background in the narrow sense' then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    Obviously it would be hard to to get ethnic data but it would be important to know how many of 23.5% households are actually Europeans: ethnic Germans, ethnic Slavs, ethnic Romanian, Hungarian, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Italians. If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

    If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

    A few years ago I might have agreed (though maybe I was naive back then), but given the situation since 2014/15 I find such optimism misplaced.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    So do I. Germany is almost done.
  135. @Talha
    But I didn’t blame the extremism in Pakistan on the invasion of Iraq. So I don’t understand why it is relevant to the current plight of Middle East Christians nor is there anything close to a flight of Christians out of Pakistan - not to mention they aren’t some ancient community from a pre-Islamic past.

    Peace.

    I don’t know why you have such a hard-on for Israel. What did Israel ever do to Pakistan or India? Oh wait, you don’t believe in the concept of nation states, so that couldn’t be it. You’re not worried about Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, etc., etc., etc. You are worried about Muslims, so don’t try to pick and choose and then point a finger at people who do the same.

    • Replies: @Talha

    You are worried about Muslims, so don’t try to pick and choose and then point a finger at people who do the same.
     
    I will get to Dmitry’s points in a bit. I simply don’t see what Pakistan has to do with the flight of Middle East Christians which is what Mr. Frost mentioned and what I responded to. I’ll dip into the situation in Pakistan in some detail, if you want to bring in Boko Haram into the picture we can discuss that too, but it still has nothing to do with the Middle East Christian flight any more than the invasion of Panama has anything to do with Iraq crashing even though it was another military intervention by the US.

    Peace.
  136. @utu
    Sorry, it was a joke that only existed in my mind. But you got it.

    Thanks for explanation. This I think agrees with the categories form this table:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/TablesMigrationStatusSex.html

    Population in private households with migrant background in the narrow sense was 23.5% in 2017. These are the subcategories:

    (1) Germans with migration experience of their own - 6.4% (?naturalized migrants including ethnic Germans from, say, Russia?)

    (2) Germans without migration experience of their own - 5.64%. (?2nd and higher generation of migrants who naturalized?)
    (3) Foreigners with migration experience of their own - 8.71%. (?foreigners residents?)
    (4) Foreigners without migration experience of their own -1.81%. (?children born in Germany of foreign residents?)

    The category (2) seems to me the most difficult comprehend. Do they keep track of your parent or grandparent status?


    Now this table gives the number of children with and w/o migrant background for 2017.
    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    For under 5 years of age it is 60.9% for w/o and 39.1% 'children with migrant background'.

    Assuming that 'children with migrant background' are children from 'households with migrant background in the narrow sense' then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    Obviously it would be hard to to get ethnic data but it would be important to know how many of 23.5% households are actually Europeans: ethnic Germans, ethnic Slavs, ethnic Romanian, Hungarian, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Italians. If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

    Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1.

    the street i grew up in had multiple immigrant families with 8+ kids – my best friend at the time was one of twelve.

    (this is another thing that causes white flight – if you get into a fight you and your brothers/cousins are almost always going to be massively outnumbered by the other kid’s brothers and cousins)

    i think it may be a sense of threat from going from a place where they’re a majority to where they’re a minority and one of the reasons immigrant birth rates often drop a lot in the 2nd generation is by then they tend to separate out into different ethnic enclaves where their group is the majority.

    • Replies: @utu
    By looking here:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_ForeignPopulation/Gender.html

    we can estimate that about 50% of foreigners in Germany are Europeans who are non Muslims and non Gypsy. The other 50% is responsible for the high breeding rate.
  137. @Talha
    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war? The word you are looking for is “Jews”...

    Peace.

    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war?

    Umm, didn’t the civil war start in 1975, with the Israeli invasion coming only in 1982?
    Anyway, disturbing that this thread is now about the Mideast, I guess I’ll have to take this as another sign that Germans are exiting the stage of history. Oh well, I guess at least we’ll always be remembered for the Nazis.

    • Replies: @iffen
    It's not my fault GR. I have been trying to stay OT. It's the fault of all these Jew-haters. They won't let me leave.
    , @utu
    Displaced Palestinians to Lebanon was a chief factor.
    , @Talha
    I stand corrected, they didn’t directly start the festivities, they simply exacerbated the situation.

    Peace.
  138. @German_reader
    Swiss aren't just Germans with a weird dialect, they're clearly their own nation with a different mentality, much more so than Austrians.
    And many of them resent the influx of Germans coming to Switzerland...Germans aren't popular there. Even years ago (in 2011), I heard stories about Germans in Switzerland who found letters of the sort "Next time we'll get you" in their mail.

    I used to have a Swiss girlfriend and spent two months in Switzerland. I’ve heard them talk of how boastful Germans are, always speaking of how things are done “bei uns” and such. With them Swiss not being exactly ashamed of their own accomplishments, you get all the right ingredients for some amount of dislike (which is usually bigger if the rivals are also neighbors).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    Well yes, I get that Germans can be annoying and arrogant. For smaller countries like Switzerland or Denmark Germany is certainly unpleasant in many ways as a neighbor.
    But don't worry, it will merely take another 30 or 40 years, then you'll be rid of us :-)
  139. @utu
    Sorry, it was a joke that only existed in my mind. But you got it.

    Thanks for explanation. This I think agrees with the categories form this table:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/TablesMigrationStatusSex.html

    Population in private households with migrant background in the narrow sense was 23.5% in 2017. These are the subcategories:

    (1) Germans with migration experience of their own - 6.4% (?naturalized migrants including ethnic Germans from, say, Russia?)

    (2) Germans without migration experience of their own - 5.64%. (?2nd and higher generation of migrants who naturalized?)
    (3) Foreigners with migration experience of their own - 8.71%. (?foreigners residents?)
    (4) Foreigners without migration experience of their own -1.81%. (?children born in Germany of foreign residents?)

    The category (2) seems to me the most difficult comprehend. Do they keep track of your parent or grandparent status?


    Now this table gives the number of children with and w/o migrant background for 2017.
    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    For under 5 years of age it is 60.9% for w/o and 39.1% 'children with migrant background'.

    Assuming that 'children with migrant background' are children from 'households with migrant background in the narrow sense' then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    Obviously it would be hard to to get ethnic data but it would be important to know how many of 23.5% households are actually Europeans: ethnic Germans, ethnic Slavs, ethnic Romanian, Hungarian, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Italians. If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

    Nationalities of foreigners in the FRG: https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_ForeignPopulation/Gender.html

    Top Five: Turks, Poles, Syrians, Italians and Romanians

    Afghans outnumber Hungarians.

    • Replies: @utu
    Thanks.
  140. @for-the-record
    AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    1867: Total population of Iraq 1.3 million (Christians ?, unlikely more than 200,000)

    Christian population Iraq:

    2003 1.5 million
    2018 (est.) 250,000

    So when did Christians in Iraq start "dwindling"?

    You have an Iraqi census from 1867. That is astonishing. I give up.

  141. @Mitleser
    Nationalities of foreigners in the FRG: https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_ForeignPopulation/Gender.html

    Top Five: Turks, Poles, Syrians, Italians and Romanians

    Afghans outnumber Hungarians.

    Thanks.

  142. @German_reader

    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war?
     
    Umm, didn't the civil war start in 1975, with the Israeli invasion coming only in 1982?
    Anyway, disturbing that this thread is now about the Mideast, I guess I'll have to take this as another sign that Germans are exiting the stage of history. Oh well, I guess at least we'll always be remembered for the Nazis.

    It’s not my fault GR. I have been trying to stay OT. It’s the fault of all these Jew-haters. They won’t let me leave.

  143. @German_reader

    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war?
     
    Umm, didn't the civil war start in 1975, with the Israeli invasion coming only in 1982?
    Anyway, disturbing that this thread is now about the Mideast, I guess I'll have to take this as another sign that Germans are exiting the stage of history. Oh well, I guess at least we'll always be remembered for the Nazis.

    Displaced Palestinians to Lebanon was a chief factor.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    I know, and I'm not trying to excuse Israel's responsibility. But my impression is that many Lebanese feel justified resentment against the role Palestinians have played in their country.
  144. @utu
    Sorry, it was a joke that only existed in my mind. But you got it.

    Thanks for explanation. This I think agrees with the categories form this table:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/TablesMigrationStatusSex.html

    Population in private households with migrant background in the narrow sense was 23.5% in 2017. These are the subcategories:

    (1) Germans with migration experience of their own - 6.4% (?naturalized migrants including ethnic Germans from, say, Russia?)

    (2) Germans without migration experience of their own - 5.64%. (?2nd and higher generation of migrants who naturalized?)
    (3) Foreigners with migration experience of their own - 8.71%. (?foreigners residents?)
    (4) Foreigners without migration experience of their own -1.81%. (?children born in Germany of foreign residents?)

    The category (2) seems to me the most difficult comprehend. Do they keep track of your parent or grandparent status?


    Now this table gives the number of children with and w/o migrant background for 2017.
    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    For under 5 years of age it is 60.9% for w/o and 39.1% 'children with migrant background'.

    Assuming that 'children with migrant background' are children from 'households with migrant background in the narrow sense' then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    Obviously it would be hard to to get ethnic data but it would be important to know how many of 23.5% households are actually Europeans: ethnic Germans, ethnic Slavs, ethnic Romanian, Hungarian, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Italians. If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

    More terrifying numbers

    “Germany is continuously experiencing high influx of irregular migrants, with 460 people applying for asylum every day for the first time,” writes the EU Commission. The main countries of origin are Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Turkey and Iran.

    https://archive.is/wCoII#selection-3757.200-3757.472

    And they admit that they underestimate illegal immigration and the real number is higher.

  145. @Mikel
    I used to have a Swiss girlfriend and spent two months in Switzerland. I've heard them talk of how boastful Germans are, always speaking of how things are done "bei uns" and such. With them Swiss not being exactly ashamed of their own accomplishments, you get all the right ingredients for some amount of dislike (which is usually bigger if the rivals are also neighbors).

    Well yes, I get that Germans can be annoying and arrogant. For smaller countries like Switzerland or Denmark Germany is certainly unpleasant in many ways as a neighbor.
    But don’t worry, it will merely take another 30 or 40 years, then you’ll be rid of us :-)

  146. @Dmitry

    Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

     

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.

    Pakistan's government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often, if you believe the websites like Al Jazeera.

    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion (yet America allows to you, rightfully, a freedom to choose a different religion from the majority, or no religion).

    This is a relevant issue in this context, especially if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/pakistan-sentences-christian-man-death-blasphemy-170916091856674.html


    dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are
     
    Humans are not dominoes. At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.

    I'm not fan or any war in Middle East which is brought from outsiders, especially not American wars - which have included nuclear bombing Japan, killing millions of Vietnamese with chemical weapons, etc.

    America's Iraq invasion, was based on a plan in which they estimated the country and people were more "reasonable" and "stable" than they are, and would emerge as some harmonious democracy immediately after.

    Saddam was brutal, because this was kind of government that could prevent the country from disintegrating. America removed Saddam, contributed something to further brutalization in Iraq. But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.

    It's not America making Iraqis or Islamists build bombs, hide them in civilians markets, and murder their countrymen, over and over for years, (until news does not even report anymore).

    killing millions of Vietnamese with chemical weapons, etc.

    BS. Steaming pile.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Injuring millions at best. Not a good policy.

    She is one of three million Vietnamese affected by the dioxin in Agent Orange – a poison that has caused untold cancers and an estimated 150,000 birth defects – which continue down the generations to this day...

    As a result, the Vietnam Red Cross estimates that three million Vietnamese were left suffering from spina bifida, Parkinson's and heart diseases as a result.

     

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-terrible-legacy-of-agent-orange-8034869.html
  147. @utu
    Displaced Palestinians to Lebanon was a chief factor.

    I know, and I’m not trying to excuse Israel’s responsibility. But my impression is that many Lebanese feel justified resentment against the role Palestinians have played in their country.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    Israel with population of 800,000 people in 1948, absorbed 850,000 Arab Jews running away from Arab countries during the 1950s. Now those are Israelis (Israelis today are mostly descended Arab Jews which were absorbed in 1950s - descendants of Israelis were speaking Arabic, look like Arabs, and only non-Arab by their religion).

    In 1948, 700,000 Palestinians running away or expelled from Israel-Arab war, as refugees, are not absorbed by Arab countries.

    Palestinians in Lebanon don't have citizenship.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Lebanon

    (Yet Palestinians in Israel, have Israeli citizenship). I never understand how to approach this issue, whether reading Wikipedia, or other website, and everytime find something new which is more crazy than you read before.

    , @utu
    I'm still intending to respond to you on the other thread (about Czechs, Germans and Germans pretending to be 'Nazis', and Germans pretending that 'Nazis' were Nazis).
  148. @iffen
    killing millions of Vietnamese with chemical weapons, etc.

    BS. Steaming pile.

    Injuring millions at best. Not a good policy.

    She is one of three million Vietnamese affected by the dioxin in Agent Orange – a poison that has caused untold cancers and an estimated 150,000 birth defects – which continue down the generations to this day…

    As a result, the Vietnam Red Cross estimates that three million Vietnamese were left suffering from spina bifida, Parkinson’s and heart diseases as a result.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-terrible-legacy-of-agent-orange-8034869.html

    • Replies: @iffen
    Vietnamese were left suffering from spina bifida, Parkinson’s and heart diseases as a result.


    My bad.

    I didn't know that we introduced spina bifida, Parkinson's and heart disease into Vietnam.


    I thought we only introduced prostitution, consumerism and greed.
  149. @notanon

    Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1.
     
    the street i grew up in had multiple immigrant families with 8+ kids - my best friend at the time was one of twelve.

    (this is another thing that causes white flight - if you get into a fight you and your brothers/cousins are almost always going to be massively outnumbered by the other kid's brothers and cousins)

    i think it may be a sense of threat from going from a place where they're a majority to where they're a minority and one of the reasons immigrant birth rates often drop a lot in the 2nd generation is by then they tend to separate out into different ethnic enclaves where their group is the majority.

    By looking here:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_ForeignPopulation/Gender.html

    we can estimate that about 50% of foreigners in Germany are Europeans who are non Muslims and non Gypsy. The other 50% is responsible for the high breeding rate.

  150. @Boswald Bollocksworth
    Russia should be making a play for these krauts. Or maybe I’m crazy, maybe Germans don’t want to move there. Russians seem rather Teutophile to me, so many Russians learn German.

    Yes, Russians still love Germany for some inexplicable reason, it’s definitely not reciprocated in the slightest.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Yes, Russians still love Germany for some inexplicable reason


    Well, the Germans did try to liberate the Russians from the Bolsheviks, there's that.
    , @Mitleser
    Not as much as they used to.

    Uwe Erich Niemeier, a German who lives in Kaliningrad noted that the treatment of Germans and German companies in Kaliningrad has changed in the last decade.
    http://kaliningrad-domizil.ru/portal/information/-mit-deutschem-akzent-/ein-moment-deutscher-nachdenklichkeit/
  151. @Peter Frost
    I live in a country where the traditional sources of information are unreliable. Polling firms have repeatedly estimated Faith Goldy's support at 3% or 6%. To win, she has to get a plurality, probably about 40% of the votes. So it seems like she doesn't have a chance.

    And yet those same polls show that a third of all voters are undecided. That's an ususually high proportion, and I suspect that most of those undecideds are people who are afraid to state their voting intentions. It also bothers me that so many employees of these polling firms openly express their disdain for Faith. Why should anyone share their voting intentions under such conditions?

    For what it's worth I believe she can win. That's simply a feeling, and I have no scientific data to back it. Nonetheless, it seems to me that a marginal "extremist" would not be getting support from Torontonians who are thoroughly post-national, i.e., "pozzed." Yet she is gaining support even in that demographic.

    Is there just one of these people that gets coverage and publicity that does not whore for Israel?

    If you must use that kind of terminology you can say she's a "whore" for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands. One reason is their lower fertility rate. A bigger reason, however, is the attitude of their Muslim neighbors—not all of them, or even a majority, but a large minority. About a third of all Muslims want to see Christians disappear in the near future. I've talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians, and they all say the same thing: the government cannot easily prosecute people who terrorize Christians because the average Muslim will not denounce them -- partly out of fear, and partly out of a perverse sense of solidarity.

    Well Toronto did elect Rob Ford, multiple times, so anything could happen.

    • LOL: iffen
  152. @Dmitry
    Injuring millions at best. Not a good policy.

    She is one of three million Vietnamese affected by the dioxin in Agent Orange – a poison that has caused untold cancers and an estimated 150,000 birth defects – which continue down the generations to this day...

    As a result, the Vietnam Red Cross estimates that three million Vietnamese were left suffering from spina bifida, Parkinson's and heart diseases as a result.

     

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-terrible-legacy-of-agent-orange-8034869.html

    Vietnamese were left suffering from spina bifida, Parkinson’s and heart diseases as a result.

    My bad.

    I didn’t know that we introduced spina bifida, Parkinson’s and heart disease into Vietnam.

    I thought we only introduced prostitution, consumerism and greed.

  153. @Yevardian
    Yes, Russians still love Germany for some inexplicable reason, it's definitely not reciprocated in the slightest.

    Yes, Russians still love Germany for some inexplicable reason

    Well, the Germans did try to liberate the Russians from the Bolsheviks, there’s that.

  154. @Dmitry

    Germans who were born in Russia
     
    Really, these people are just Russians in the more general sense (or representatives of whichever part of USSR they lived in).

    Ones who immigrated to Germany, say they had quite a difficult assimilation culturally, not less than a permanent emigration to any other country.

    not less than a permanent emigration to any other country

    Hard to say because they can’t know it form their own experience. Then they were eligible for citizenship on arrival that should count as a plus. But it is possible that they encountered negative reaction just like some Russian Jews in Israel whose ethnicity is questioned and their opportunism is insinuated.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    it is possible that they encountered negative reaction just like some Russian Jews in Israel
     
    It's analogous. They discuss the similar problems on the same websites. People also try same thing of getting the passport, without actually going to live permanently in the country.

    General internet consensus for emigration, is that you should try to go to Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Then Germany, is regarded in a lower level, and Israel slightly below Germany (depending on profession though).
  155. @German_reader
    I know, and I'm not trying to excuse Israel's responsibility. But my impression is that many Lebanese feel justified resentment against the role Palestinians have played in their country.

    Israel with population of 800,000 people in 1948, absorbed 850,000 Arab Jews running away from Arab countries during the 1950s. Now those are Israelis (Israelis today are mostly descended Arab Jews which were absorbed in 1950s – descendants of Israelis were speaking Arabic, look like Arabs, and only non-Arab by their religion).

    In 1948, 700,000 Palestinians running away or expelled from Israel-Arab war, as refugees, are not absorbed by Arab countries.

    Palestinians in Lebanon don’t have citizenship.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Lebanon

    (Yet Palestinians in Israel, have Israeli citizenship). I never understand how to approach this issue, whether reading Wikipedia, or other website, and everytime find something new which is more crazy than you read before.

    • Replies: @Dmitry

    descendants of Israelis were speaking Arabic, look like Arabs, and only non-Arab by their religion
     
    Oops, I mean the word "ancestors".
  156. @Talha
    But I didn’t blame the extremism in Pakistan on the invasion of Iraq. So I don’t understand why it is relevant to the current plight of Middle East Christians nor is there anything close to a flight of Christians out of Pakistan - not to mention they aren’t some ancient community from a pre-Islamic past.

    Peace.

    I am not an expert on the Middle East, so I usually refrain from commenting, but you make a valid point: 2003 Bush-Blair attack on Iraq is the root cause. And it has remained largely unexamined and without any consequences for the geniuses in Washington and London who started it.

    It is very easy to point to other other issues in the ME, etc… But it is a fact that in 2003 US-UK without a provocation attacked and brutally destroyed Iraq, then proceeded to Libya and Syria, in each case destroying societies that were by no means perfect – or even in any sense particularly good – and caused incredible suffering. They were not there to win a war, West is incapable of winning in a traditional sense because they don’t have any realistic war or post-war plans. They went there to cause a huge suffering – and that’s what they did. With no consequences for the organisers. That is something that undermines any talk of democracy and values. How do you not hold people accountable? What kind of a democracy has no accountability?

    • Agree: Talha, RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @iffen
    They were not there to win a war

    The neo-liberals have been at this democracy building for a while. Many people from these countries want what we have, Talha, for instance, that's why he is here. When things go wrong they want to blame us. If you want to dance you have to pay the piper.
  157. @German_reader

    Culture shock will be a lot larger if you go to America, than if you go to West Europe.
     
    For a Russian? That's interesting, could you elaborate?

    Something I could never get used to was being expected to smile and make small talk in every damn social interaction, no matter how trivial.

    They continue to be mightily proud of themselves and I don’t believe that whatever forces set them in motion a few generations ago to conquer and enslave their neighbors are totally vanished.

    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe, with the partial exception of Scandinavia.

    • Replies: @German_reader

    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe
     
    Well, I don't know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia, or even racially charged prejudice against other Europeans persists...a certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree...such sentiments are rarely clearly articulated nowadays, but sure, on some level it's certainly still there. If one really tries hard to look for continuities with Nazi Germany, I guess one can find something.
    There's also the issue that Germany doesn't really belong to some wider cultural sphere, like the Romance or Slavic peoples...that increases the sense of being special and isolated.
    What I don't buy though is this idea that arrogant Germans want to dominate Europe or still have an urge to rule others. Germany was completely defeated in 1945, to an extent people here don't generally quite understand because they've got nothing comparable in their own history. I think deep down Germans know that they were completely at the mercy of others in 1945 and were only saved due to geopolitical issues beyond their control; and that in a sense we'll be "on probation" forever and have no true friends, that all this talk about reconciliation and friendship may just be superficial. This explains much of German behaviour (the desire to placate others by ostentatious xenophilia and pro-EU cosmopolitanism, mixed with resentment due to the perception that the Nazi card will always be played against us when it suits others) which may seem insincere or contradictory to others.
  158. @German_reader
    I know, and I'm not trying to excuse Israel's responsibility. But my impression is that many Lebanese feel justified resentment against the role Palestinians have played in their country.

    I’m still intending to respond to you on the other thread (about Czechs, Germans and Germans pretending to be ‘Nazis’, and Germans pretending that ‘Nazis’ were Nazis).

  159. @Dmitry
    Israel with population of 800,000 people in 1948, absorbed 850,000 Arab Jews running away from Arab countries during the 1950s. Now those are Israelis (Israelis today are mostly descended Arab Jews which were absorbed in 1950s - descendants of Israelis were speaking Arabic, look like Arabs, and only non-Arab by their religion).

    In 1948, 700,000 Palestinians running away or expelled from Israel-Arab war, as refugees, are not absorbed by Arab countries.

    Palestinians in Lebanon don't have citizenship.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Lebanon

    (Yet Palestinians in Israel, have Israeli citizenship). I never understand how to approach this issue, whether reading Wikipedia, or other website, and everytime find something new which is more crazy than you read before.

    descendants of Israelis were speaking Arabic, look like Arabs, and only non-Arab by their religion

    Oops, I mean the word “ancestors”.

  160. @German_reader

    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war?
     
    Umm, didn't the civil war start in 1975, with the Israeli invasion coming only in 1982?
    Anyway, disturbing that this thread is now about the Mideast, I guess I'll have to take this as another sign that Germans are exiting the stage of history. Oh well, I guess at least we'll always be remembered for the Nazis.

    I stand corrected, they didn’t directly start the festivities, they simply exacerbated the situation.

    Peace.

  161. @Yevardian
    Yes, Russians still love Germany for some inexplicable reason, it's definitely not reciprocated in the slightest.

    Not as much as they used to.

    Uwe Erich Niemeier, a German who lives in Kaliningrad noted that the treatment of Germans and German companies in Kaliningrad has changed in the last decade.

    http://kaliningrad-domizil.ru/portal/information/-mit-deutschem-akzent-/ein-moment-deutscher-nachdenklichkeit/

  162. @Beckow
    I am not an expert on the Middle East, so I usually refrain from commenting, but you make a valid point: 2003 Bush-Blair attack on Iraq is the root cause. And it has remained largely unexamined and without any consequences for the geniuses in Washington and London who started it.

    It is very easy to point to other other issues in the ME, etc... But it is a fact that in 2003 US-UK without a provocation attacked and brutally destroyed Iraq, then proceeded to Libya and Syria, in each case destroying societies that were by no means perfect - or even in any sense particularly good - and caused incredible suffering. They were not there to win a war, West is incapable of winning in a traditional sense because they don't have any realistic war or post-war plans. They went there to cause a huge suffering - and that's what they did. With no consequences for the organisers. That is something that undermines any talk of democracy and values. How do you not hold people accountable? What kind of a democracy has no accountability?

    They were not there to win a war

    The neo-liberals have been at this democracy building for a while. Many people from these countries want what we have, Talha, for instance, that’s why he is here. When things go wrong they want to blame us. If you want to dance you have to pay the piper.

    • Replies: @Beckow

    ...neo-liberals have been at this democracy building for a while
     
    When you go off to fight a war, you presumably have a better plan then 'we will organize an election for the natives once we win'. Now, many of the liberals are insane, so it is possible.

    But if you look at what actually happened - and ignore the endless verbiage that is used to hide what is happening - it is rather simple: US-UK woke up one day and decided to kill a lot of people in Iraq in the most gruesome way they could. So they did, and not much else was accomplished. Next they decided to do the same in Libya and Syria (a bit more hands-off this time for the sake of appearance). Again not much was accomplished other than inflicting a lot of suffering.

    People who confuse causing a lot of hurt with winning are usually considered irrational psychopaths. It is like a little kid breaking someone's toys (or head) for no other reason than that he can. There is no benefit, it looks pretty bad, but he caused someone a lot of pain. And these are the geniuses now in charge in the West who are also totally unaccountable. Almost makes one miss the previous bunch that had some rational goals, maybe evil goals, but they made sense. Obsessing about 'purple fingers' electoral process among foreign peoples doesn't makes any sense. Or pretending to care about it.

  163. @utu

    not less than a permanent emigration to any other country
     
    Hard to say because they can't know it form their own experience. Then they were eligible for citizenship on arrival that should count as a plus. But it is possible that they encountered negative reaction just like some Russian Jews in Israel whose ethnicity is questioned and their opportunism is insinuated.

    it is possible that they encountered negative reaction just like some Russian Jews in Israel

    It’s analogous. They discuss the similar problems on the same websites. People also try same thing of getting the passport, without actually going to live permanently in the country.

    General internet consensus for emigration, is that you should try to go to Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Then Germany, is regarded in a lower level, and Israel slightly below Germany (depending on profession though).

    • Replies: @utu

    Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Then Germany
     
    I believe that the US is still the best in terms of attitudes towards the foreigners but in general the anglo immigrant countries are good ex definitione. Germany I am sure is OK but even before the recent immigration wave you could get bad looks if you were heard speaking foreign language in public which you did not get in the US though now they report of cases like this and blame Trump for it. In the US often people would ask you friendly and open curiosity question 'where are you from.' The question where are you form in the US is in general a friendly one. American ask this question each other to pin point the accents and it is not considered rude or nosy. However if you go to some places like small towns in Oklahoma they keep bigger distance which may feel off-putting. But they are more suspicious to each other over there. I think that American outward friendliness which exceeds anything you see in Europe could have arose from the necessity of accommodating strangers and foreigners. The friendliness is there to disarm, to show you do not mean harm.

    But in terms of benefits and opportunities for poor immigrants it is possible that Germany is better than the US or Canada.
  164. @iffen
    I don’t know why you have such a hard-on for Israel. What did Israel ever do to Pakistan or India? Oh wait, you don’t believe in the concept of nation states, so that couldn’t be it. You’re not worried about Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, etc., etc., etc. You are worried about Muslims, so don’t try to pick and choose and then point a finger at people who do the same.

    You are worried about Muslims, so don’t try to pick and choose and then point a finger at people who do the same.

    I will get to Dmitry’s points in a bit. I simply don’t see what Pakistan has to do with the flight of Middle East Christians which is what Mr. Frost mentioned and what I responded to. I’ll dip into the situation in Pakistan in some detail, if you want to bring in Boko Haram into the picture we can discuss that too, but it still has nothing to do with the Middle East Christian flight any more than the invasion of Panama has anything to do with Iraq crashing even though it was another military intervention by the US.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    You were the one that brought Israel and all the Muslims in the world into the thread. Before that we were only concerned with the Muslims in Germany.
  165. @Mitleser

    But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn’t black and white. Why can’t Germans move on and live with today’s realities?
     
    Because many Germans want to get rid off Germany in favor of EUrope.

    The “permissive consensus” that for several decades allowed European integration to proceed unimpeded was stronger in Germany than elsewhere, except perhaps in Italy.6 Up to today, “Europe”7 carries something like a sacred aura in Germany, too elevated to be linked to dirty concepts like national interest. The main strongholds of German Europeanism are the educated middle classes and the young generation, for whom Europe stands for all that is both virtuous and pleasant—from peace, human rights, tolerance, and “openness” to an international labor market and convenient travel across borders. Reflecting the difficulties of identifying with a German nation after 1945, German pro-European sentiment has long considered it self-evident that the EU is ultimately the vessel into which European nations can give up their separate states, identities, and interests. While other member states may have joined the EU to restore or preserve their national sovereignty,8 Germany is in the EU to get rid of it, firmly believing that this holds true for all others as well.
     
    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/05/europe-under-merkel-iv-balance-of-impotence/

    How do you expect such people to defend their old nation?
    They want to do the opposite and oppose pro-Germans.

    In a video interview with Informr, the new leader of the Green Party, Robert Habeck, made controversial remarks denying the notion of a German people, newspaper Junge Freiheit reports.

    When asked about the concept of betrayal of the people, Habeck says:

    “That’s a Nazi concept. There is no people, in consequence, there cannot be a treason of the people. It’s a statement of anger that can be really divisive, discriminatory and pernicious.”
     
    https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/05/germans-as-a-people-do-not-exist-so-they-cannot-be-betrayed-says-green-party-leader/

    …many Germans want to get rid off Germany in favor of EUrope

    I also want a lot of things, but grown-ups usually learns how to live with what is possible. It is not possible to have a ‘EU identity‘, it would require a demographic upheaval, language consolidation and cultural changes that are simply not doable. So the ‘many Germans‘ who say that’s what they want are living in a fantasy. Or they are scared and so they are lying.

    The Habeck guy is really something, ‘there is no people‘, right. He must not get out much, or is possibly mentally ill.

  166. Interesting fact: Merkel’s parlamentarian faction, the reason she is the current German leader has the smallest share of German parlamentarians with migration background in the German parliament, only 2,9%, less than in 2013-2017.

    https://infogram.com/bundestagsabgeordnete-mit-migrationshintergrund-1ggk269j65gk2n0

    Why do these people support her and her open borders policy?

    • Replies: @notanon
    follow the money - who funds them?
  167. @Talha

    You are worried about Muslims, so don’t try to pick and choose and then point a finger at people who do the same.
     
    I will get to Dmitry’s points in a bit. I simply don’t see what Pakistan has to do with the flight of Middle East Christians which is what Mr. Frost mentioned and what I responded to. I’ll dip into the situation in Pakistan in some detail, if you want to bring in Boko Haram into the picture we can discuss that too, but it still has nothing to do with the Middle East Christian flight any more than the invasion of Panama has anything to do with Iraq crashing even though it was another military intervention by the US.

    Peace.

    You were the one that brought Israel and all the Muslims in the world into the thread. Before that we were only concerned with the Muslims in Germany.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Faith Goldy was mentioned and I mentioned she was a Zionist stooge. It could have ended there, but I’m fine with taking it forward if Mr. Karlin is cool with it. Again, I still don’t see what Pakistan has to do with Middle Eastern Christians and their situation. But I’m going to respond to Dmitry so we can take that Pakistan angle further in a more accurate path.

    Peace.
  168. @iffen
    They were not there to win a war

    The neo-liberals have been at this democracy building for a while. Many people from these countries want what we have, Talha, for instance, that's why he is here. When things go wrong they want to blame us. If you want to dance you have to pay the piper.

    …neo-liberals have been at this democracy building for a while

    When you go off to fight a war, you presumably have a better plan then ‘we will organize an election for the natives once we win’. Now, many of the liberals are insane, so it is possible.

    But if you look at what actually happened – and ignore the endless verbiage that is used to hide what is happening – it is rather simple: US-UK woke up one day and decided to kill a lot of people in Iraq in the most gruesome way they could. So they did, and not much else was accomplished. Next they decided to do the same in Libya and Syria (a bit more hands-off this time for the sake of appearance). Again not much was accomplished other than inflicting a lot of suffering.

    People who confuse causing a lot of hurt with winning are usually considered irrational psychopaths. It is like a little kid breaking someone’s toys (or head) for no other reason than that he can. There is no benefit, it looks pretty bad, but he caused someone a lot of pain. And these are the geniuses now in charge in the West who are also totally unaccountable. Almost makes one miss the previous bunch that had some rational goals, maybe evil goals, but they made sense. Obsessing about ‘purple fingers‘ electoral process among foreign peoples doesn’t makes any sense. Or pretending to care about it.

    • Replies: @iffen
    you presumably have a better plan then ‘we will organize an election for the natives once we win’.

    No. AFAIK that's pretty much all there is to it.

    Well, they are supposed to integrate themselves into the global economic system.

  169. @Bukephalos


    https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/6qyawt/alterspyramide_der_deutschen_bev%C3%B6lkerung_nach/

    that would be 2013. Generally don't go very far, if you want the model just look at the US
    You're just witnessing the import of a society paradigm. Much of the culture wars and PC onslaught shoved down people's throats is just the accompanying ideology needed to make the transition

    Immediate differences are that the islamic element is much stronger in western Europe, although the US left now seems keen to correct (should be easy once the Trump train of morons self-destructs or is terminally gutted). The other is the welfare state which will get unsustainable but it makes sense that things should converge to US norms as well, that's what someone like Macron is about after all

    “the welfare state which will get unsustainable”

    I’m not so sure about that. The plan is to give all citizens a monthly cash stipend. No problem, the Fed will just create it. The poor will spend all their’s and that’s good, a consistent reliable demand makes for easy planning. Farmer’s will continue to receive their subsidies to grow food. So that evens out.

    Now on to housing. Obviously, the federal government will have to provide subsidies to developers and building contractors to put that up as well. What’s left? Clothes and cheap electronics. The Asians slaves will grind away at that and their governments don’t mind recycling the dollars back into Treasury Bonds. So that leaves transportation. A car. hmmmm. Somehow the government will have to intervene and make cheap used autos available to the working and non working poor. Of course, maintenance will be paid for by the gov’t. Again, stimulating business. So where’s the problem? As long as the Fed is allowed to create money ex nihilo, it’s a closed system.

    And for the upper classes, the Fed will buy into the stock market when it threatens to stall. Money managers boom time. Everyone’s happy.

  170. @Beckow

    ...neo-liberals have been at this democracy building for a while
     
    When you go off to fight a war, you presumably have a better plan then 'we will organize an election for the natives once we win'. Now, many of the liberals are insane, so it is possible.

    But if you look at what actually happened - and ignore the endless verbiage that is used to hide what is happening - it is rather simple: US-UK woke up one day and decided to kill a lot of people in Iraq in the most gruesome way they could. So they did, and not much else was accomplished. Next they decided to do the same in Libya and Syria (a bit more hands-off this time for the sake of appearance). Again not much was accomplished other than inflicting a lot of suffering.

    People who confuse causing a lot of hurt with winning are usually considered irrational psychopaths. It is like a little kid breaking someone's toys (or head) for no other reason than that he can. There is no benefit, it looks pretty bad, but he caused someone a lot of pain. And these are the geniuses now in charge in the West who are also totally unaccountable. Almost makes one miss the previous bunch that had some rational goals, maybe evil goals, but they made sense. Obsessing about 'purple fingers' electoral process among foreign peoples doesn't makes any sense. Or pretending to care about it.

    you presumably have a better plan then ‘we will organize an election for the natives once we win’.

    No. AFAIK that’s pretty much all there is to it.

    Well, they are supposed to integrate themselves into the global economic system.

  171. @iffen
    You were the one that brought Israel and all the Muslims in the world into the thread. Before that we were only concerned with the Muslims in Germany.

    Faith Goldy was mentioned and I mentioned she was a Zionist stooge. It could have ended there, but I’m fine with taking it forward if Mr. Karlin is cool with it. Again, I still don’t see what Pakistan has to do with Middle Eastern Christians and their situation. But I’m going to respond to Dmitry so we can take that Pakistan angle further in a more accurate path.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    I still don’t see what Pakistan has to do with Middle Eastern Christians and their situation.

    Incompatibility of Muslims with non-Mulims in a nation state, whether in Canada, Germany, Syria, Lebanon or Pakistan.
  172. @Talha
    Faith Goldy was mentioned and I mentioned she was a Zionist stooge. It could have ended there, but I’m fine with taking it forward if Mr. Karlin is cool with it. Again, I still don’t see what Pakistan has to do with Middle Eastern Christians and their situation. But I’m going to respond to Dmitry so we can take that Pakistan angle further in a more accurate path.

    Peace.

    I still don’t see what Pakistan has to do with Middle Eastern Christians and their situation.

    Incompatibility of Muslims with non-Mulims in a nation state, whether in Canada, Germany, Syria, Lebanon or Pakistan.

    • Replies: @Talha
    That’s fine if you want to make that point and expand the subject even further into this discussion. Then it no longer is specific to Middle East Christians, but non-Muslim minorities (in general) in Muslim countries. In short, this question is highly dependent on the kinds of Muslims around and the ones in charge of the country inasmuch as whether the question of Jews being compatible with Germany is also dependent on the kind of Germans around and its leadership.

    Peace.
  173. @Yevardian
    Something I could never get used to was being expected to smile and make small talk in every damn social interaction, no matter how trivial.

    They continue to be mightily proud of themselves and I don’t believe that whatever forces set them in motion a few generations ago to conquer and enslave their neighbors are totally vanished.
     
    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe, with the partial exception of Scandinavia.

    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe

    Well, I don’t know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia, or even racially charged prejudice against other Europeans persists…a certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree…such sentiments are rarely clearly articulated nowadays, but sure, on some level it’s certainly still there. If one really tries hard to look for continuities with Nazi Germany, I guess one can find something.
    There’s also the issue that Germany doesn’t really belong to some wider cultural sphere, like the Romance or Slavic peoples…that increases the sense of being special and isolated.
    What I don’t buy though is this idea that arrogant Germans want to dominate Europe or still have an urge to rule others. Germany was completely defeated in 1945, to an extent people here don’t generally quite understand because they’ve got nothing comparable in their own history. I think deep down Germans know that they were completely at the mercy of others in 1945 and were only saved due to geopolitical issues beyond their control; and that in a sense we’ll be “on probation” forever and have no true friends, that all this talk about reconciliation and friendship may just be superficial. This explains much of German behaviour (the desire to placate others by ostentatious xenophilia and pro-EU cosmopolitanism, mixed with resentment due to the perception that the Nazi card will always be played against us when it suits others) which may seem insincere or contradictory to others.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Well, the Chinese have always had a fairly high opinion of Germany. I was looking for some data to support that and found this, though from 2012:

    https://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-society/germans-and-chinese-a-one-sided-love


    A survey conducted by market research firm TNS Infratest – a first of the kind – for the Chinese communications firm Huawei revealed some interesting answers. The Chinese were overall very positive about Germany’s politics, culture, the achievements of German athletes, and above all the country’s economic performance.
     
    , @Anon 2
    Continuing with my theme of great vs. failed civilizations.

    As mentioned before, I think that only England, France, and the U.S.
    deserve the credit of having created great civilizations, sadly all three
    being now in steep decline. And this claim must be accompanied
    by a lot of caveats, mainly due to the fact that humanity seems unable
    to rise above the level of smart chimps - we are tribal, aggressive,
    revengeful, territorial, and status-seeking. One can debate the reasons, e.g.,
    the fact that sea powers and countries with natural borders have an
    advantage over land powers and countries with no natural borders,
    but I'd rather focus here on failed civilizations.

    A sine qua non condition of a great civilization is beauty because beauty is
    truth and truth is beauty. People are attracted to beauty, and a civilization
    cannot be considered great without being a great attractor. Failed
    civilizations typically don't deserve more than an F or a D in beauty.
    For example, consider the Russian language. Corresponding to the simple
    word like 'socialist,' what do we have in Russian? 'Sotsialisticheskaya'
    (using the feminine ending), and even longer forms when you do the
    declension and look at the genitive or ablative. This, and countless
    examples of this form, to me encapsulate why the Russian language could
    never be a carrier of a great civilization. I'm reminded of a Russian
    woman who said she went to Italy to be surrounded by beauty - beautiful
    language, great cuisine, and beautiful landscapes. Sadly, speaking as
    a Central European, the same applies to all Slavonic languages - one
    reason why Central and Eastern Europe failed to create great civilizations.

    On the other hand, French (due to its liaison, for example in 'les amis'),
    Italian, and even Spanish are effortlessly beautiful. English is too staccato
    a language to be considered beautiful, it doesn't flow like French or Italian
    but due to the voluminous vocabulary of French, Latin, and Greek origin it
    cannot be considered ugly, and it is extremely flexible and efficient.
    , @Mikel

    I don’t know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia... certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree
     
    Oh, come on. Everybody feels superior to their neighbors everywhere in the world. Argentinians feel superior to Chileans, Chileans feel superior to Peruvians, Peruvians feel superior to Bolivians. Even southern Bolivians feel superior to their northern compatriots. I lived in that part of the word, I know. Most definitely, we Basques feel unapologetically superior to Spaniards. Why would we want to be independent from them if that wasn't the case? Our sense of superiority over the French is somewhat mitigated though, hence the lack of a strong separatist movement in the French Basque Country.

    Perhaps it is just inevitable that you Germans feel some sort of biological superiority over the rest of mankind. You are the strongest nation at the core of Europe and you have a widely recognized tradition of efficiency and prosperity. You are also the center of the Germanic group of countries that shaped the modern world. But, given your strength and your historical record at stirring massive conflicts, you'll have to excuse the rest of us from watching you closely and being weary that you don't return to your old ways. I think that Asians have all this much better figured out with regards to the Japanese and don't feel the need to hide their feelings so much towards each other.

    I can also understand that basically no living German has any personal responsibility in it but the scale of the monstrosities initiated by Germans a few generations ago has just no historical precedent. It might take one or two centuries of peaceful coexistence until full trust is recovered.

    At a personal level, one of the reasons why I would not want the Basque Country to become independent right now is because the unnecessary atrocities committed by my terrorist compatriots are too recent. I don't trust the sincerity of their regret and don't want to share a national project with that kind of people until enough time has gone by to start a healthy process. Backward as they may be, the Spaniards didn't deserve the vicious suffering that some of my countrymen inflicted upon them. As I see it, spending some more time under Spanish rule is a necessary price to pay for the excess violence of the past.
  174. pro-EU cosmopolitanism

    Germany runs the EU.

    You got Europe and have been chipping away at Russia; first the Baltics, now you are waiting for the Ukraine to fall into your lap.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    Elites of the founding nations of the European projects run the EU,
    that means elites of France, Germany, Benelux and Italy.
  175. @Mitleser
    Interesting fact: Merkel's parlamentarian faction, the reason she is the current German leader has the smallest share of German parlamentarians with migration background in the German parliament, only 2,9%, less than in 2013-2017.
    https://infogram.com/bundestagsabgeordnete-mit-migrationshintergrund-1ggk269j65gk2n0

    Why do these people support her and her open borders policy?

    follow the money – who funds them?

  176. @iffen
    I still don’t see what Pakistan has to do with Middle Eastern Christians and their situation.

    Incompatibility of Muslims with non-Mulims in a nation state, whether in Canada, Germany, Syria, Lebanon or Pakistan.

    That’s fine if you want to make that point and expand the subject even further into this discussion. Then it no longer is specific to Middle East Christians, but non-Muslim minorities (in general) in Muslim countries. In short, this question is highly dependent on the kinds of Muslims around and the ones in charge of the country inasmuch as whether the question of Jews being compatible with Germany is also dependent on the kind of Germans around and its leadership.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    whether the question of Jews being compatible with Germany is also dependent on the kind of Germans around and its leadership.

    Yes, but most Germans are not and were not Nazis. All Muslims are Muslim, or at least claim to be.
  177. @iffen
    pro-EU cosmopolitanism


    Germany runs the EU.

    You got Europe and have been chipping away at Russia; first the Baltics, now you are waiting for the Ukraine to fall into your lap.

    Elites of the founding nations of the European projects run the EU,
    that means elites of France, Germany, Benelux and Italy.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Elites of the founding nations of the European projects run the EU

    Yeah, I know, it's not like back in the time of H. when the proles and plebes were running everything.
  178. @Dmitry
    If you are visitor in a foreign country, you should not say anything publicly about politics anyway.

    Oh, you think its just limited to politics. That’s adorable.

    The personal is political.

  179. @German_reader

    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe
     
    Well, I don't know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia, or even racially charged prejudice against other Europeans persists...a certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree...such sentiments are rarely clearly articulated nowadays, but sure, on some level it's certainly still there. If one really tries hard to look for continuities with Nazi Germany, I guess one can find something.
    There's also the issue that Germany doesn't really belong to some wider cultural sphere, like the Romance or Slavic peoples...that increases the sense of being special and isolated.
    What I don't buy though is this idea that arrogant Germans want to dominate Europe or still have an urge to rule others. Germany was completely defeated in 1945, to an extent people here don't generally quite understand because they've got nothing comparable in their own history. I think deep down Germans know that they were completely at the mercy of others in 1945 and were only saved due to geopolitical issues beyond their control; and that in a sense we'll be "on probation" forever and have no true friends, that all this talk about reconciliation and friendship may just be superficial. This explains much of German behaviour (the desire to placate others by ostentatious xenophilia and pro-EU cosmopolitanism, mixed with resentment due to the perception that the Nazi card will always be played against us when it suits others) which may seem insincere or contradictory to others.

    Well, the Chinese have always had a fairly high opinion of Germany. I was looking for some data to support that and found this, though from 2012:

    https://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-society/germans-and-chinese-a-one-sided-love

    A survey conducted by market research firm TNS Infratest – a first of the kind – for the Chinese communications firm Huawei revealed some interesting answers. The Chinese were overall very positive about Germany’s politics, culture, the achievements of German athletes, and above all the country’s economic performance.

  180. @Dmitry

    it is possible that they encountered negative reaction just like some Russian Jews in Israel
     
    It's analogous. They discuss the similar problems on the same websites. People also try same thing of getting the passport, without actually going to live permanently in the country.

    General internet consensus for emigration, is that you should try to go to Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Then Germany, is regarded in a lower level, and Israel slightly below Germany (depending on profession though).

    Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Then Germany

    I believe that the US is still the best in terms of attitudes towards the foreigners but in general the anglo immigrant countries are good ex definitione. Germany I am sure is OK but even before the recent immigration wave you could get bad looks if you were heard speaking foreign language in public which you did not get in the US though now they report of cases like this and blame Trump for it. In the US often people would ask you friendly and open curiosity question ‘where are you from.’ The question where are you form in the US is in general a friendly one. American ask this question each other to pin point the accents and it is not considered rude or nosy. However if you go to some places like small towns in Oklahoma they keep bigger distance which may feel off-putting. But they are more suspicious to each other over there. I think that American outward friendliness which exceeds anything you see in Europe could have arose from the necessity of accommodating strangers and foreigners. The friendliness is there to disarm, to show you do not mean harm.

    But in terms of benefits and opportunities for poor immigrants it is possible that Germany is better than the US or Canada.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Are you named after the movie Utu?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsTqvrgPOHE
    , @Dmitry

    think that American outward friendliness which exceeds anything you see in Europe could have arose from the necessity of accommodating strangers
     
    I don't see much advantage of superficial friendliness, if they don't actually want to be your friend.

    Sure, there is a small advantage of creating a more civilized atmosphere and reducing your stress level.

    But then there is disadvantage, that being friendly itself is something which can lose its real aim.

  181. @utu

    Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Then Germany
     
    I believe that the US is still the best in terms of attitudes towards the foreigners but in general the anglo immigrant countries are good ex definitione. Germany I am sure is OK but even before the recent immigration wave you could get bad looks if you were heard speaking foreign language in public which you did not get in the US though now they report of cases like this and blame Trump for it. In the US often people would ask you friendly and open curiosity question 'where are you from.' The question where are you form in the US is in general a friendly one. American ask this question each other to pin point the accents and it is not considered rude or nosy. However if you go to some places like small towns in Oklahoma they keep bigger distance which may feel off-putting. But they are more suspicious to each other over there. I think that American outward friendliness which exceeds anything you see in Europe could have arose from the necessity of accommodating strangers and foreigners. The friendliness is there to disarm, to show you do not mean harm.

    But in terms of benefits and opportunities for poor immigrants it is possible that Germany is better than the US or Canada.

    Are you named after the movie Utu?

    • Replies: @utu
    I have never heard about the movie. Somebody here has already enlightened me about the Maori Utu. Anyway, there is no connection.
  182. @Dmitry

    Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

     

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.

    Pakistan's government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often, if you believe the websites like Al Jazeera.

    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion (yet America allows to you, rightfully, a freedom to choose a different religion from the majority, or no religion).

    This is a relevant issue in this context, especially if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/pakistan-sentences-christian-man-death-blasphemy-170916091856674.html


    dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are
     
    Humans are not dominoes. At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.

    I'm not fan or any war in Middle East which is brought from outsiders, especially not American wars - which have included nuclear bombing Japan, killing millions of Vietnamese with chemical weapons, etc.

    America's Iraq invasion, was based on a plan in which they estimated the country and people were more "reasonable" and "stable" than they are, and would emerge as some harmonious democracy immediately after.

    Saddam was brutal, because this was kind of government that could prevent the country from disintegrating. America removed Saddam, contributed something to further brutalization in Iraq. But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.

    It's not America making Iraqis or Islamists build bombs, hide them in civilians markets, and murder their countrymen, over and over for years, (until news does not even report anymore).

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.

    I know more about those countries than you as well. In fact, this weekend I’ll be meeting up with a Libyan brother from the old days at UCLA who is coming to visit the area; I will be asking what he knows coming out of Libya. I know Iraqi brothers too, Kurdish as well. My wife’s sister married and Egyptian, he was there during the Arab Spring wrapping up his last years before coming state-side. I’ve also traveled through Egypt, even in the parts where tourists don’t care to go.

    Pakistan’s government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often

    Here is what is going on:
    “Although Pakistan’s law takes the accusation of blasphemy very seriously and people have been sentenced to death, no one has ever actually been executed.”

    https://www.rt.com/news/441190-blasphemy-death-sentence-rally-pakistan/

    There are one or two high-profile cases right now.

    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion

    Complete nonsense. First, I’m an American so go talk to a Pakistani. Second, the government of Pakistan does not willy-nilly arrest and kill off Christians for being Christians. What Pakistan has a serious problem with is vigilante violence; people accusing others of blasphemy and simply committing violence outside of court. Many cases don’t even get to court. The people who do this kind of thing should be punished (as was the guy who killed Salman Taseer).

    The law says people are punished for blasphemy – as they should be in a Muslim country; so the government is not trying to punish innocent people, but someone who broke the law. The only questions here are; is the evidence substantial, is the trial open and fair, does the accused have the ability to defend themselves and is there an appeals process. If the trial was not carried out justly, then the accused should be acquitted – end of story. The government of Pakistan should indeed put its foot down and not yield to the demands of mobs.

    if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable

    Completely separate question; I was simply interested in pointing out Faith Goldy was a Zionist shill. I’m not interested in convincing you the Islamic model is preferable any more than I’m interested in convincing you that you should like the same dessert that I do – I’ve only been interested in making clear and accurate what it is; if you like it, cool – if you don’t, cool.

    At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.

    Correct – and the Muslim extremists are being fought and killed by other Muslims in Muslim lands and thousands of Muslims have died trying to do so. A scholar I have cited often, Sh. Muhammad Yacoubi (ra) – who my own spiritual teacher learned the text of ‘Nur ul-Idaah’ under – stated it was an obligation to fight Daesh:

    http://www.refutingisis.com/

    My point was, the Muslim world is cleaning up the mess others handed to them. Daesh takfiris are killing non-Muslims and will continue to try to kill them in territories they control until they have been brought to heel. It is easier to fight them when you actually have a working army and police force and security apparatus. I cited how Egypt is fighting the extremists…question; do you think that fight would go better or worse if we invaded and destroyed Egypt’s’ army – to ask the question is to answer it.

    America’s Iraq invasion, was based on

    So you mean basically the line Netanyahu was feeding them…”I guarantee” he said. Not to mention the other Neocon fools who knew nothing about the region.

    But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.

    Correct, which is good because a majority of Iraqis weren’t actually killing each other. There was serious sectarian violence for which each person involved will answer to God as well as the extremists that got out of control – they bear full responsibility for their actions. Just like looters during a riot, but can we agree that it is a stupid thing to do to complain why the cops aren’t doing anything about armed and rioting mobs burning out shops when you’ve bombed out three quarters of the precincts? Can we at least agree to the rules of basic mathematics?

    Can we also agree that if you have rulers in the Muslim world (say like the King of Morocco and the government who is protective of the Jewish population) and a population in which the minorities are living in generally good terms…maybe, just maybe it’s not a smart idea to topple that government and bomb the country’s infrastructure so the people become desperate and law and order breaks down?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @DFH

    First, I’m an American
     
    If a dog is born in a stable, it doesn't make it a horse
    , @Dmitry

    First, I’m an American so go talk to a Pakistani.
     
    But your nationality and origin was Pakistani?

    So if you propose that modern life in white and European countries is so problematic all the time, then we can look at Pakistan for alternative, and then learn a new appreciation for our modern life.

    By the way, I have talked to intelligent, well educated Pakistani guy - his view was very against influence of Islamism in Pakistan. My impression this is much more the educated view in Pakistan.

    The law says people are punished for blasphemy – as they should be in a Muslim country; so the government is not trying to punish innocent people, but someone who broke the law.
     
    Lol so you actually support this. It seems extreme and immoral.

    If white and European countries, agreed to this kind of law, they could execute all Muslims (and other religions) like yourself for blasphemy. You use internet now, rely on satellite communications, fly in planes. It's because of men like Giordano Bruno, which could do "blasphemy".


    -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFLLY7SwUEk

    Completely separate question; I was simply interested in pointing out Faith Goldy was a Zionist shill.

     

    And you are "Islamist shill"? You were angry with her because she wants to ban Muslim immigration, not because her views (which I google her now) about a 15 kilometer wide country in the Eastern Mediterranean, which is of limited importance and power even in Mediterranean, which is thousands of kilometers from where you live or come from.

    She seems, indeed, as a uneducated redneck. However, if you can be at all objective, you will understand her viewpoint is very rational.

    It seems like in most famous cities of the world, where Muslims were kindly allowed - whether Moscow, London, New York, Berlin, Paris, Boston etc. The most violent and immoral action that has occurred in recent history, was by Muslim immigrants who were warmly allowed to the country. Usually this involves murdering innocent civilians with suicide bombs or random massacres

    At the same, situation in Muslim countries is highly unsuccessful and undeveloped, with very few contributions. If I get cancer - I don't think I will be saved by technology from a Muslim country.

    So there is inevitable that many people will be resistant to Islamic immigration or increasing Muslim demographics, like Faith Goldy (I don't know if she will be Mayor of Toronto).

    Maybe it's difficult situation for Muslims, and unfair on the majority which are not laying bombing, but objectively it can be seen there is a real problem of terrorism and violence in the community.
    .

    My point was, the Muslim world is cleaning up the mess others handed to them. Daesh takfiris are killing non-Muslims and will continue to try to kill them in territories they control until they have been brought to heel.

     

    I remember this years before "Daesh". Every week in Iraq (or many other Muslim countries, and non-Muslim countries), there are regular massacres by Islamists, who build a bomb, and try to kill as many civilians as possible. In countries like Iraq, every week for years.

    Someone like America contributes to weakening the central authority in Iraq, idiotically. But the evil was endogenous. It's not Americans who are building bombs and putting them in marketplace in Baghdad, over and over. Responsible people for these murders, are endogenous to the countries.

    So you mean basically the line Netanyahu was feeding them…”I guarantee” he said

     

    Netanyahu is a politician of a very small country, or (in real world) marginal power, who cannot even achieve basic election promises in Israel (very small country with average parameters) like deporting some Africans. It's a sign of dishonestly, to try to talk about him, when we people are worried about Muslim immigration, because endless bombing and massacres that continue week after week, where a Muslim guy is building bombs and trying to kill civilians, all over the world.

    In Iraq, 2003 invasion was part of the problem. But in Paris? In London? In Moscow, New York, Boston, Manchester, Brussels, Berlin, etc, etc?
    , @songbird
    I never thought of it until this instant, but your use of the word "brother" is interesting.

    As a Christian, in a figurative sense, the word primarily would mean how monks address one another. Perhaps, it was used differently and more universally to describe almost any male Christians earlier in the Church's history - I'm not sure. As an American, I'm sure you know, it is also a terminology that black men use to speak of each other to promote ethnic identity.

    I am really quite generally ignorant of Islamic customs. No monks, are there? I had the passing thought that the NoI might have influenced the terminology of more orthodox American-Muslims. But that can't be right, can it? Would you say that it is a standard term used overseas? Like among most of the faithful in Pakistan?
  183. @Talha

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.
     
    I know more about those countries than you as well. In fact, this weekend I'll be meeting up with a Libyan brother from the old days at UCLA who is coming to visit the area; I will be asking what he knows coming out of Libya. I know Iraqi brothers too, Kurdish as well. My wife's sister married and Egyptian, he was there during the Arab Spring wrapping up his last years before coming state-side. I've also traveled through Egypt, even in the parts where tourists don't care to go.

    Pakistan’s government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often
     
    Here is what is going on:
    "Although Pakistan's law takes the accusation of blasphemy very seriously and people have been sentenced to death, no one has ever actually been executed."
    https://www.rt.com/news/441190-blasphemy-death-sentence-rally-pakistan/

    There are one or two high-profile cases right now.


    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion
     
    Complete nonsense. First, I'm an American so go talk to a Pakistani. Second, the government of Pakistan does not willy-nilly arrest and kill off Christians for being Christians. What Pakistan has a serious problem with is vigilante violence; people accusing others of blasphemy and simply committing violence outside of court. Many cases don't even get to court. The people who do this kind of thing should be punished (as was the guy who killed Salman Taseer).

    The law says people are punished for blasphemy - as they should be in a Muslim country; so the government is not trying to punish innocent people, but someone who broke the law. The only questions here are; is the evidence substantial, is the trial open and fair, does the accused have the ability to defend themselves and is there an appeals process. If the trial was not carried out justly, then the accused should be acquitted - end of story. The government of Pakistan should indeed put its foot down and not yield to the demands of mobs.


    if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable
     
    Completely separate question; I was simply interested in pointing out Faith Goldy was a Zionist shill. I'm not interested in convincing you the Islamic model is preferable any more than I'm interested in convincing you that you should like the same dessert that I do - I've only been interested in making clear and accurate what it is; if you like it, cool - if you don't, cool.

    At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.
     
    Correct - and the Muslim extremists are being fought and killed by other Muslims in Muslim lands and thousands of Muslims have died trying to do so. A scholar I have cited often, Sh. Muhammad Yacoubi (ra) - who my own spiritual teacher learned the text of 'Nur ul-Idaah' under - stated it was an obligation to fight Daesh:
    http://www.refutingisis.com/

    My point was, the Muslim world is cleaning up the mess others handed to them. Daesh takfiris are killing non-Muslims and will continue to try to kill them in territories they control until they have been brought to heel. It is easier to fight them when you actually have a working army and police force and security apparatus. I cited how Egypt is fighting the extremists...question; do you think that fight would go better or worse if we invaded and destroyed Egypt's' army - to ask the question is to answer it.


    America’s Iraq invasion, was based on
     
    So you mean basically the line Netanyahu was feeding them..."I guarantee" he said. Not to mention the other Neocon fools who knew nothing about the region.

    But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.
     
    Correct, which is good because a majority of Iraqis weren't actually killing each other. There was serious sectarian violence for which each person involved will answer to God as well as the extremists that got out of control - they bear full responsibility for their actions. Just like looters during a riot, but can we agree that it is a stupid thing to do to complain why the cops aren't doing anything about armed and rioting mobs burning out shops when you've bombed out three quarters of the precincts? Can we at least agree to the rules of basic mathematics?

    Can we also agree that if you have rulers in the Muslim world (say like the King of Morocco and the government who is protective of the Jewish population) and a population in which the minorities are living in generally good terms...maybe, just maybe it's not a smart idea to topple that government and bomb the country's infrastructure so the people become desperate and law and order breaks down?

    Peace.

    First, I’m an American

    If a dog is born in a stable, it doesn’t make it a horse

    • Replies: @Talha
    That's nice - are you an American citizen?

    Peace.
  184. @DFH

    First, I’m an American
     
    If a dog is born in a stable, it doesn't make it a horse

    That’s nice – are you an American citizen?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @DFH
    Would I need to be a Japanese citizen to know that you're not Japanese?
    Do you think that a piece of paper makes you an American?
  185. @Anon
    Are you named after the movie Utu?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsTqvrgPOHE

    I have never heard about the movie. Somebody here has already enlightened me about the Maori Utu. Anyway, there is no connection.

  186. @German_reader

    Russia is just a European country
     
    But you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years because of communism, I would have expected some lingering effect of that (which certainly exists in relations between West and East Germany which were only divided for 40 years).
    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
    Thanks for your answer.

    But you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years

    Yes, if by ’70 years’ you mean ’1070 years’. Russia never had open intercourse with Europe, not unless you count coming in and toppling your oppressive regimes as ‘intercourse’.

    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.

    USA culture is alien to everyone, including Americans themselves. (Thus the phenomenon of American self-hate.) USA culture is an artificial, inhuman creation.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    You seem to confuse Hollywood “culture” with the way that many millions of us traditional Americans still live, love, think, believe, and work. Nothing artificial or inhuman at all.

    I know the best and worst of the USA, born and raised here and lived in about ten States, and it’s mostly getting worse, but get out and see the full picture.

    Normal married Americans with children — proud of their ancestors, language, and mores; willing to fight to defend our land and way of life but NOT looking for a fight — not confused about their own sexuality, their own identity, and not confused about their primary loyalties and duties to God, family, and nation — would typically have a lot in common with normal married people with children elsewhere, including Russia.

  187. @German_reader

    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe
     
    Well, I don't know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia, or even racially charged prejudice against other Europeans persists...a certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree...such sentiments are rarely clearly articulated nowadays, but sure, on some level it's certainly still there. If one really tries hard to look for continuities with Nazi Germany, I guess one can find something.
    There's also the issue that Germany doesn't really belong to some wider cultural sphere, like the Romance or Slavic peoples...that increases the sense of being special and isolated.
    What I don't buy though is this idea that arrogant Germans want to dominate Europe or still have an urge to rule others. Germany was completely defeated in 1945, to an extent people here don't generally quite understand because they've got nothing comparable in their own history. I think deep down Germans know that they were completely at the mercy of others in 1945 and were only saved due to geopolitical issues beyond their control; and that in a sense we'll be "on probation" forever and have no true friends, that all this talk about reconciliation and friendship may just be superficial. This explains much of German behaviour (the desire to placate others by ostentatious xenophilia and pro-EU cosmopolitanism, mixed with resentment due to the perception that the Nazi card will always be played against us when it suits others) which may seem insincere or contradictory to others.

    Continuing with my theme of great vs. failed civilizations.

    As mentioned before, I think that only England, France, and the U.S.
    deserve the credit of having created great civilizations, sadly all three
    being now in steep decline. And this claim must be accompanied
    by a lot of caveats, mainly due to the fact that humanity seems unable
    to rise above the level of smart chimps – we are tribal, aggressive,
    revengeful, territorial, and status-seeking. One can debate the reasons, e.g.,
    the fact that sea powers and countries with natural borders have an
    advantage over land powers and countries with no natural borders,
    but I’d rather focus here on failed civilizations.

    A sine qua non condition of a great civilization is beauty because beauty is
    truth and truth is beauty. People are attracted to beauty, and a civilization
    cannot be considered great without being a great attractor. Failed
    civilizations typically don’t deserve more than an F or a D in beauty.
    For example, consider the Russian language. Corresponding to the simple
    word like ‘socialist,’ what do we have in Russian? ‘Sotsialisticheskaya’
    (using the feminine ending), and even longer forms when you do the
    declension and look at the genitive or ablative. This, and countless
    examples of this form, to me encapsulate why the Russian language could
    never be a carrier of a great civilization. I’m reminded of a Russian
    woman who said she went to Italy to be surrounded by beauty – beautiful
    language, great cuisine, and beautiful landscapes. Sadly, speaking as
    a Central European, the same applies to all Slavonic languages – one
    reason why Central and Eastern Europe failed to create great civilizations.

    On the other hand, French (due to its liaison, for example in ‘les amis’),
    Italian, and even Spanish are effortlessly beautiful. English is too staccato
    a language to be considered beautiful, it doesn’t flow like French or Italian
    but due to the voluminous vocabulary of French, Latin, and Greek origin it
    cannot be considered ugly, and it is extremely flexible and efficient.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    What about Germany? Similar deficiencies, as compared to English, plague the
    German language. Consider the simple word like 'acceleration.' In German the
    corresponding words are 'Beschleunigung' or even worse 'Geschwindigkeitänderung.'
    Just as with Russian, this kind of needless complexity shows why German
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. One could also recommend
    Mark Twain's 1880 (but still hilarious) essay, "The awful German language."
    Moreover, unlike Russian which is pleasant to listen to, German sounds
    harsh, and I'd even say that to hear a German shout 'Raus!' once is enough to
    instantly lose all interest in the German language and culture. Germany, into
    the foreseeable future, will be known as the bully of Europe (Frau Merkel's
    behavior is merely the latest example), and suffered the fate that all bullies
    deserve - it was humiliated not once but twice in the 20th century. It will be
    hard for the Germans to overcome the image they gained in the last couple
    of hundred years as a people who achieved a level of greatness at mass
    murder and the obliteration of whole cities.

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women - fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know. Being good at building killing machines is not
    enough. You've got to have balance
    , @DFH

    even Spanish are effortlessly beautiful
     
    In Galicia, maybe
    , @dfordoom

    A sine qua non condition of a great civilization is beauty because beauty is
    truth and truth is beauty.
     
    So do you really think the U.S. has excelled in that area?
  188. @German_reader

    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe
     
    Well, I don't know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia, or even racially charged prejudice against other Europeans persists...a certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree...such sentiments are rarely clearly articulated nowadays, but sure, on some level it's certainly still there. If one really tries hard to look for continuities with Nazi Germany, I guess one can find something.
    There's also the issue that Germany doesn't really belong to some wider cultural sphere, like the Romance or Slavic peoples...that increases the sense of being special and isolated.
    What I don't buy though is this idea that arrogant Germans want to dominate Europe or still have an urge to rule others. Germany was completely defeated in 1945, to an extent people here don't generally quite understand because they've got nothing comparable in their own history. I think deep down Germans know that they were completely at the mercy of others in 1945 and were only saved due to geopolitical issues beyond their control; and that in a sense we'll be "on probation" forever and have no true friends, that all this talk about reconciliation and friendship may just be superficial. This explains much of German behaviour (the desire to placate others by ostentatious xenophilia and pro-EU cosmopolitanism, mixed with resentment due to the perception that the Nazi card will always be played against us when it suits others) which may seem insincere or contradictory to others.

    I don’t know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia… certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree

    Oh, come on. Everybody feels superior to their neighbors everywhere in the world. Argentinians feel superior to Chileans, Chileans feel superior to Peruvians, Peruvians feel superior to Bolivians. Even southern Bolivians feel superior to their northern compatriots. I lived in that part of the word, I know. Most definitely, we Basques feel unapologetically superior to Spaniards. Why would we want to be independent from them if that wasn’t the case? Our sense of superiority over the French is somewhat mitigated though, hence the lack of a strong separatist movement in the French Basque Country.

    Perhaps it is just inevitable that you Germans feel some sort of biological superiority over the rest of mankind. You are the strongest nation at the core of Europe and you have a widely recognized tradition of efficiency and prosperity. You are also the center of the Germanic group of countries that shaped the modern world. But, given your strength and your historical record at stirring massive conflicts, you’ll have to excuse the rest of us from watching you closely and being weary that you don’t return to your old ways. I think that Asians have all this much better figured out with regards to the Japanese and don’t feel the need to hide their feelings so much towards each other.

    I can also understand that basically no living German has any personal responsibility in it but the scale of the monstrosities initiated by Germans a few generations ago has just no historical precedent. It might take one or two centuries of peaceful coexistence until full trust is recovered.

    At a personal level, one of the reasons why I would not want the Basque Country to become independent right now is because the unnecessary atrocities committed by my terrorist compatriots are too recent. I don’t trust the sincerity of their regret and don’t want to share a national project with that kind of people until enough time has gone by to start a healthy process. Backward as they may be, the Spaniards didn’t deserve the vicious suffering that some of my countrymen inflicted upon them. As I see it, spending some more time under Spanish rule is a necessary price to pay for the excess violence of the past.

    • Replies: @notanon

    but the scale of the monstrosities initiated by Germans a few generations ago has just no historical precedent
     
    Bolsheviks
    , @German_reader

    You are also the center of the Germanic group of countries that shaped the modern world.
     
    There is no "Germanic group of countries". Scandinavians are remote and tbh irrelevant in the big picture, and the Danes certainly do resent Germany for WW2 (don't know about Norwegians). The same applies to the Dutch. I've already mentioned that the Swiss can't stand German immigrants. Britain probably doesn't even regard itself as "Germanic" these days, and in any case has a strongly anti-German public discourse. That pretty much leaves only Austria.
    Germany isn't at the center of anything, except geographically. There is no wider German civilization, no friendly related peoples, no Germany overseas. Much as it pains me to agree with a Polish Germanophobe like "Anon 2", he's right that Germany is a failed civilization.

    It might take one or two centuries of peaceful coexistence until full trust is recovered.
     
    Germany won't exist that long in any recognizable form.
    , @DFH
    I unfortunately have a lot of experience of Chileans, and they have to be one of the most absurdly conceited (on the basis of virtually nothing) nations on earth.
  189. @neutral

    That place has changed a lot, I don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.
     
    I wonder what the average Chinaman is thinking when they visit such places, do they really want to pay a lot to go to these places to see other Chinamen. Even worse than that, what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris, they paid a lot to blacks and browns.

    I wonder what the average Chinaman is thinking when they visit such places, do they really want to pay a lot to go to these places to see other Chinamen. Even worse than that, what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris, they paid a lot to blacks and browns.

    The gingerbread houses are still standing.

    There are former European concessions in China that have been turned into very popular tourist attractions with shopping areas or immensely overpriced restaurants serving French, German or Italian cuisine.

    And if they can’t find real European-built buildings then they just create copies.

  190. @Mr. Hack

    They will then genocide the immigrants and stage a humanitarian intervention into Eastern Europe to protect their new German communities and to stop Russia from holocausting its remaining Jews.

    It’s a brilliant plan I must admit. Galactic Brain tier.
     

    Thanks Anatoly for this deep, deep analysis, based on...I like the effects of the LSD trip that you recently took on your thinking process and ability to synthesize current events and make such lucid projections for Germany's and Russia's future (I was actually looking for any indications that these thoughts of yours were sarcastic, but no, they appear not to be). Keep it up, your ratings must be going off the charts! :-)

    (Your stuff is much more entertaining than Averko's or that other Stooge's).

    (I was actually looking for any indications that these thoughts of yours were sarcastic, but no, they appear not to be).

    https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/galaxy-brain-meme-explains-2017/

  191. @Anon 2
    Continuing with my theme of great vs. failed civilizations.

    As mentioned before, I think that only England, France, and the U.S.
    deserve the credit of having created great civilizations, sadly all three
    being now in steep decline. And this claim must be accompanied
    by a lot of caveats, mainly due to the fact that humanity seems unable
    to rise above the level of smart chimps - we are tribal, aggressive,
    revengeful, territorial, and status-seeking. One can debate the reasons, e.g.,
    the fact that sea powers and countries with natural borders have an
    advantage over land powers and countries with no natural borders,
    but I'd rather focus here on failed civilizations.

    A sine qua non condition of a great civilization is beauty because beauty is
    truth and truth is beauty. People are attracted to beauty, and a civilization
    cannot be considered great without being a great attractor. Failed
    civilizations typically don't deserve more than an F or a D in beauty.
    For example, consider the Russian language. Corresponding to the simple
    word like 'socialist,' what do we have in Russian? 'Sotsialisticheskaya'
    (using the feminine ending), and even longer forms when you do the
    declension and look at the genitive or ablative. This, and countless
    examples of this form, to me encapsulate why the Russian language could
    never be a carrier of a great civilization. I'm reminded of a Russian
    woman who said she went to Italy to be surrounded by beauty - beautiful
    language, great cuisine, and beautiful landscapes. Sadly, speaking as
    a Central European, the same applies to all Slavonic languages - one
    reason why Central and Eastern Europe failed to create great civilizations.

    On the other hand, French (due to its liaison, for example in 'les amis'),
    Italian, and even Spanish are effortlessly beautiful. English is too staccato
    a language to be considered beautiful, it doesn't flow like French or Italian
    but due to the voluminous vocabulary of French, Latin, and Greek origin it
    cannot be considered ugly, and it is extremely flexible and efficient.

    What about Germany? Similar deficiencies, as compared to English, plague the
    German language. Consider the simple word like ‘acceleration.’ In German the
    corresponding words are ‘Beschleunigung’ or even worse ‘Geschwindigkeitänderung.’
    Just as with Russian, this kind of needless complexity shows why German
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. One could also recommend
    Mark Twain’s 1880 (but still hilarious) essay, “The awful German language.”
    Moreover, unlike Russian which is pleasant to listen to, German sounds
    harsh, and I’d even say that to hear a German shout ‘Raus!’ once is enough to
    instantly lose all interest in the German language and culture. Germany, into
    the foreseeable future, will be known as the bully of Europe (Frau Merkel’s
    behavior is merely the latest example), and suffered the fate that all bullies
    deserve – it was humiliated not once but twice in the 20th century. It will be
    hard for the Germans to overcome the image they gained in the last couple
    of hundred years as a people who achieved a level of greatness at mass
    murder and the obliteration of whole cities.

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women – fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know. Being good at building killing machines is not
    enough. You’ve got to have balance

    • Replies: @Hyperborean

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women – fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know.
     
    How do you reconcile this with your view that England and America were great civilisations?
    , @Anon 2
    Continuing with the topic of failed civilizations, what about China or Israel?
    While I'm proficient in Russian and French, and reasonably so in German,
    I confess my ignorance of Chinese or Hebrew. But I can see or hear what
    fails the criterion of beauty.

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese, and checking the
    the Internet, this is not an uncommon response. I remember suffering
    through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor
    in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone
    in class. And the Chinese, being arrogant, never accepted the idea that
    you're supposed to learn English when you teach in America.
    China is No.1, so who needs English? Plus the Chinese characters are
    some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. In contrast, I could
    listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
    The language is so beautiful. And don't get me started on Chinese
    names vs. Japanese names. The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop
    a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing
    writing system, and yet they failed at this task.

    Now Israel. Hebrew is also not a pleasant language to listen to, and the
    Jews obviously completely failed at developing a great civilization. And they
    could have. 2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days. The Jews could
    have formed a separate country in the waning days of the Roman Empire.
    After all, the Magyars reached Europe rather late, and were still able to form
    a separate country. Why did the Jews fail at this task? I'm not a historian
    but I suspect they were too comfortable living as a wealthy group in cities
    like Alexandria, letting others do the dirty jobs. So I'd hypothesize that the
    Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to
    till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves. They exploited
    others for these tasks. Hence, to put it delicately, until they create a
    great civilization, the Jews have nothing to teach us. Get back to us, when
    you do!
  192. @Anon 2
    What about Germany? Similar deficiencies, as compared to English, plague the
    German language. Consider the simple word like 'acceleration.' In German the
    corresponding words are 'Beschleunigung' or even worse 'Geschwindigkeitänderung.'
    Just as with Russian, this kind of needless complexity shows why German
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. One could also recommend
    Mark Twain's 1880 (but still hilarious) essay, "The awful German language."
    Moreover, unlike Russian which is pleasant to listen to, German sounds
    harsh, and I'd even say that to hear a German shout 'Raus!' once is enough to
    instantly lose all interest in the German language and culture. Germany, into
    the foreseeable future, will be known as the bully of Europe (Frau Merkel's
    behavior is merely the latest example), and suffered the fate that all bullies
    deserve - it was humiliated not once but twice in the 20th century. It will be
    hard for the Germans to overcome the image they gained in the last couple
    of hundred years as a people who achieved a level of greatness at mass
    murder and the obliteration of whole cities.

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women - fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know. Being good at building killing machines is not
    enough. You've got to have balance

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women – fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know.

    How do you reconcile this with your view that England and America were great civilisations?

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Re:England and America vs. women

    I think that England and America created other things that were important
    to women, e.g., great literature, and being rich, could import fine wines, fabrics
    etc. England, specifically, was so far ahead of everyone in industrial
    development that the English women could see they had many advantages
    over their sisters on the continent. The great attraction of emigrating to
    America in the 18-19th centuries was the idea of 'living large.' This was never
    available in Europe. Even the people were taller. Compare the way Americans
    live today in their huge McMansions to the cramped conditions in Europe.
    My real estate agent jokingly said to me, "It's a sin to live in such a big house."
    Many middle-class Americans live today the way only nobles lived in
    Europe. And most women love real estate, love to 'live large," and love to see
    themselves as the lady of the house.
    , @RadicalCenter
    If you think America doesn’t have fine wine and cuisine, you aren’t trying hard at all. What country are you even talking about? Not the one where I live.

    Now, as for more and more Americans finding it hard to afford regular food and drink, let alone that fine wine and cuisine, that’s another story,and a different problem.
  193. @Anon 2
    What about Germany? Similar deficiencies, as compared to English, plague the
    German language. Consider the simple word like 'acceleration.' In German the
    corresponding words are 'Beschleunigung' or even worse 'Geschwindigkeitänderung.'
    Just as with Russian, this kind of needless complexity shows why German
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. One could also recommend
    Mark Twain's 1880 (but still hilarious) essay, "The awful German language."
    Moreover, unlike Russian which is pleasant to listen to, German sounds
    harsh, and I'd even say that to hear a German shout 'Raus!' once is enough to
    instantly lose all interest in the German language and culture. Germany, into
    the foreseeable future, will be known as the bully of Europe (Frau Merkel's
    behavior is merely the latest example), and suffered the fate that all bullies
    deserve - it was humiliated not once but twice in the 20th century. It will be
    hard for the Germans to overcome the image they gained in the last couple
    of hundred years as a people who achieved a level of greatness at mass
    murder and the obliteration of whole cities.

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women - fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know. Being good at building killing machines is not
    enough. You've got to have balance

    Continuing with the topic of failed civilizations, what about China or Israel?
    While I’m proficient in Russian and French, and reasonably so in German,
    I confess my ignorance of Chinese or Hebrew. But I can see or hear what
    fails the criterion of beauty.

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese, and checking the
    the Internet, this is not an uncommon response. I remember suffering
    through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor
    in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone
    in class. And the Chinese, being arrogant, never accepted the idea that
    you’re supposed to learn English when you teach in America.
    China is No.1, so who needs English? Plus the Chinese characters are
    some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. In contrast, I could
    listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
    The language is so beautiful. And don’t get me started on Chinese
    names vs. Japanese names. The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop
    a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing
    writing system, and yet they failed at this task.

    Now Israel. Hebrew is also not a pleasant language to listen to, and the
    Jews obviously completely failed at developing a great civilization. And they
    could have. 2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days. The Jews could
    have formed a separate country in the waning days of the Roman Empire.
    After all, the Magyars reached Europe rather late, and were still able to form
    a separate country. Why did the Jews fail at this task? I’m not a historian
    but I suspect they were too comfortable living as a wealthy group in cities
    like Alexandria, letting others do the dirty jobs. So I’d hypothesize that the
    Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to
    till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves. They exploited
    others for these tasks. Hence, to put it delicately, until they create a
    great civilization, the Jews have nothing to teach us. Get back to us, when
    you do!

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese
    ...
    In contrast, I could listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
     
    This is true, but sung Chinese is beautiful and manly, while sung Japanese is retarded wailing.

    Just goes to show that these long-winded quasi-theories are bullshit.
    , @Epigon

    2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days.
     
    You're a certified imbecile. The whole of Roman Empire at its peak had between 40 and 60 million, population, spread across three continents.
    Italy never surpassed the 10 million total population and you number JEWS in tens of millions in 1st century AD?
    , @utu

    The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing writing system, and yet they failed at this task.
     
    Some beauty takes thousands of years of development to be appreciated. If Brits or Poles are around for another 3000 years then perhaps they may evolve to the point of appreciating it as well. Hopefully your children are a tiny bit more appreciative already. Speaking of children, ask them to tune up your dotage medication so the embarrassment feed back loop kicks in so we do not have to feel it vicariously for you.
    , @inertial

    I remember suffering through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone in class.
     
    You should post a recording of yourself speaking English so that we could all laugh at your accent.

    Plus the Chinese characters are some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language could never be a carrier of a great civilization.
     
    You know what language has an ugly writing system? Polish.

    https://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2018/06/Poland-soccer-player.jpeg

    You guys should switch to Cyrillic alphabet. It fits Slavic languages (and the Romanian) far better.


    So I’d hypothesize that the Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves.
     
    So I take it you've never heard of Jewish uprisings against the Roman Empire?
    , @German_reader
    That's one of the strangest things I've ever read on Unz review. Weirdly amusing though, if there's ever an anthology of comments from here, your comments about languages and great civilizations need to be included.
  194. @Hyperborean

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women – fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know.
     
    How do you reconcile this with your view that England and America were great civilisations?

    Re:England and America vs. women

    I think that England and America created other things that were important
    to women, e.g., great literature, and being rich, could import fine wines, fabrics
    etc. England, specifically, was so far ahead of everyone in industrial
    development that the English women could see they had many advantages
    over their sisters on the continent. The great attraction of emigrating to
    America in the 18-19th centuries was the idea of ‘living large.’ This was never
    available in Europe. Even the people were taller. Compare the way Americans
    live today in their huge McMansions to the cramped conditions in Europe.
    My real estate agent jokingly said to me, “It’s a sin to live in such a big house.”
    Many middle-class Americans live today the way only nobles lived in
    Europe. And most women love real estate, love to ‘live large,” and love to see
    themselves as the lady of the house.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    1. American whites are hobbits compared to Europeans. American whites are often descended from bottom dwellers of European societies

    2. Name elements of these "great" "civilizations" of England and USA

    3. Write down examples of "great literature" in England and USA

    4. Where do ignorant tards like you get the idea that European poor emigrating to America and struggling to survive, forced by famines, crop diseases and poverty, doing manual labour in sweat shops, living in slums of 19th century had any idea of mansions?

    5. Would you be so kind and fuck off to your glorious real estate, pretentious senile "book writer"? No one is interested in your stupid, repetitive rants on matters you clearly have no idea, and which has been demonstrated to you previously.

    , @Anon 2
    To expand on the concept of 'living large' in America,
    let me give another example. My university office is
    much larger than the offices of the professors I visited
    in Europe, and I'm a typical example. I'm not even a chair
    or a dean. I'm only a full professor. It is this type of 'living
    large' that America has been offering to its upper middle
    class for at least 200 years, one of many reasons why
    the U.S. still remains a great civilization. How much longer?
    This is something nobody knows
    , @dfordoom

    I think that England and America created other things that were important
    to women, e.g., great literature, and being rich, could import fine wines, fabrics
     
    If you have to import things of beauty because you can't create them yourself then aren't you a kind of parasite culture rather than a great culture?
  195. @Anon 2
    Continuing with the topic of failed civilizations, what about China or Israel?
    While I'm proficient in Russian and French, and reasonably so in German,
    I confess my ignorance of Chinese or Hebrew. But I can see or hear what
    fails the criterion of beauty.

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese, and checking the
    the Internet, this is not an uncommon response. I remember suffering
    through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor
    in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone
    in class. And the Chinese, being arrogant, never accepted the idea that
    you're supposed to learn English when you teach in America.
    China is No.1, so who needs English? Plus the Chinese characters are
    some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. In contrast, I could
    listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
    The language is so beautiful. And don't get me started on Chinese
    names vs. Japanese names. The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop
    a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing
    writing system, and yet they failed at this task.

    Now Israel. Hebrew is also not a pleasant language to listen to, and the
    Jews obviously completely failed at developing a great civilization. And they
    could have. 2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days. The Jews could
    have formed a separate country in the waning days of the Roman Empire.
    After all, the Magyars reached Europe rather late, and were still able to form
    a separate country. Why did the Jews fail at this task? I'm not a historian
    but I suspect they were too comfortable living as a wealthy group in cities
    like Alexandria, letting others do the dirty jobs. So I'd hypothesize that the
    Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to
    till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves. They exploited
    others for these tasks. Hence, to put it delicately, until they create a
    great civilization, the Jews have nothing to teach us. Get back to us, when
    you do!

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese

    In contrast, I could listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.

    This is true, but sung Chinese is beautiful and manly, while sung Japanese is retarded wailing.

    Just goes to show that these long-winded quasi-theories are bullshit.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Re: Spoken Chinese vs. sung Chinese

    Do I need to state the obvious and say that the relevant comparison is
    between the spoken languages. That's what people hear when they
    listen to the Chinese Americans speaking their native tongue(s),
    and that's what they mainly hear when they visit China.
    , @Anon 2
    Re: Long-winded quasi theories

    'Quasi theories' would describe perhaps 99% of what is posted on Unz.com,
    and 95% of what is taught at universities outside of STEM and medicine.
    Unfortunately, as Plato's Protagoras and much later Nietzsche, pointed
    out, our quest for knowledge is ruled by perspectivism. All our knowledge
    is partial, a needlessly pessimistic point of view in physics or chemistry,
    but certainly valid in areas such as history, literature, art, law, economics,
    linguistics or sociology.

    My posts were a bit long-winded because I think the esthetic point of view
    in describing countries has not received enough attention on this blog.
    Inxreasingly, especially as women are becoming better educated and gaining
    more power, countries are beginning to compete in soft power as much as
    in military power. Hence the esthetic point of view in marketing and branding
    on the national level will become increasingly important.
  196. @Anon 2
    Re:England and America vs. women

    I think that England and America created other things that were important
    to women, e.g., great literature, and being rich, could import fine wines, fabrics
    etc. England, specifically, was so far ahead of everyone in industrial
    development that the English women could see they had many advantages
    over their sisters on the continent. The great attraction of emigrating to
    America in the 18-19th centuries was the idea of 'living large.' This was never
    available in Europe. Even the people were taller. Compare the way Americans
    live today in their huge McMansions to the cramped conditions in Europe.
    My real estate agent jokingly said to me, "It's a sin to live in such a big house."
    Many middle-class Americans live today the way only nobles lived in
    Europe. And most women love real estate, love to 'live large," and love to see
    themselves as the lady of the house.

    1. American whites are hobbits compared to Europeans. American whites are often descended from bottom dwellers of European societies

    2. Name elements of these “great” “civilizations” of England and USA

    3. Write down examples of “great literature” in England and USA

    4. Where do ignorant tards like you get the idea that European poor emigrating to America and struggling to survive, forced by famines, crop diseases and poverty, doing manual labour in sweat shops, living in slums of 19th century had any idea of mansions?

    5. Would you be so kind and fuck off to your glorious real estate, pretentious senile “book writer”? No one is interested in your stupid, repetitive rants on matters you clearly have no idea, and which has been demonstrated to you previously.

    • Replies: @DFH

    1. American whites are hobbits compared to Europeans. American whites are often descended from bottom dwellers of European societies
     
    Is that why American whites are more intelligent (according to PISA results) than Europeans and created a more prosperous and succesful society than almost all of Europe?
    Aren't you some sort of South Slav anyway? Truly the bottom end of the European race

    2. Name elements of these “great” “civilizations” of England and USA

     

    -> Settling a huge proportion of the Earth's surface and turning it from wasteland into civilisation
    -> Being responsible for more scientific and technological advances than any other European group

    3. Write down examples of “great literature” in England and USA
     
    Shakespeare, Milton, Blake, Coleridge, Byron, Keats, Austen, (George) Eliot, Trollope, Kipling, Hardy, Lawrence, James, Pound, (T.S.) Eliot
    , @utu
    Your arguments about culture are not well taken but your observation that we are dealing with the case senility must be correct otherwise the nonsense he is spouting inexplicable. Anon 2 is why the word Fremdscham was invented.
  197. @Anon 2
    Continuing with the topic of failed civilizations, what about China or Israel?
    While I'm proficient in Russian and French, and reasonably so in German,
    I confess my ignorance of Chinese or Hebrew. But I can see or hear what
    fails the criterion of beauty.

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese, and checking the
    the Internet, this is not an uncommon response. I remember suffering
    through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor
    in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone
    in class. And the Chinese, being arrogant, never accepted the idea that
    you're supposed to learn English when you teach in America.
    China is No.1, so who needs English? Plus the Chinese characters are
    some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. In contrast, I could
    listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
    The language is so beautiful. And don't get me started on Chinese
    names vs. Japanese names. The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop
    a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing
    writing system, and yet they failed at this task.

    Now Israel. Hebrew is also not a pleasant language to listen to, and the
    Jews obviously completely failed at developing a great civilization. And they
    could have. 2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days. The Jews could
    have formed a separate country in the waning days of the Roman Empire.
    After all, the Magyars reached Europe rather late, and were still able to form
    a separate country. Why did the Jews fail at this task? I'm not a historian
    but I suspect they were too comfortable living as a wealthy group in cities
    like Alexandria, letting others do the dirty jobs. So I'd hypothesize that the
    Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to
    till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves. They exploited
    others for these tasks. Hence, to put it delicately, until they create a
    great civilization, the Jews have nothing to teach us. Get back to us, when
    you do!

    2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days.

    You’re a certified imbecile. The whole of Roman Empire at its peak had between 40 and 60 million, population, spread across three continents.
    Italy never surpassed the 10 million total population and you number JEWS in tens of millions in 1st century AD?

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    Re: Jewish population in the Roman Empire

    According to Wikipedia, the global Jewish population in the 1930s was
    17 million. One always hears the assertions that the number of Jews today
    is roughly the same as 2,000 years ago, i.e., 10-15 million. No one knows
    for sure because the exact number depends on the definition of who is Jewish:
    religious, secular, ethnic, etc. Do half Jews count? Ron Unz and others
    can't even agree on the total Jewish enrollment at Harvard. But suppose
    that the number of Jews in the Roman Empire was 8-10 million, as many
    sources suggest. That was more than enough to form a separate country.
    Much smaller numbers formed medieval countries such as Hungary or Poland.
    , @anonymous coward
    Sounds about right. There were a lot of Old Testament Jews back in those days. The key is to understand that those Old Testament guys have no relation to the guys who call themselves 'Jews' today.
  198. @Epigon
    1. American whites are hobbits compared to Europeans. American whites are often descended from bottom dwellers of European societies

    2. Name elements of these "great" "civilizations" of England and USA

    3. Write down examples of "great literature" in England and USA

    4. Where do ignorant tards like you get the idea that European poor emigrating to America and struggling to survive, forced by famines, crop diseases and poverty, doing manual labour in sweat shops, living in slums of 19th century had any idea of mansions?

    5. Would you be so kind and fuck off to your glorious real estate, pretentious senile "book writer"? No one is interested in your stupid, repetitive rants on matters you clearly have no idea, and which has been demonstrated to you previously.

    1. American whites are hobbits compared to Europeans. American whites are often descended from bottom dwellers of European societies

    Is that why American whites are more intelligent (according to PISA results) than Europeans and created a more prosperous and succesful society than almost all of Europe?
    Aren’t you some sort of South Slav anyway? Truly the bottom end of the European race

    2. Name elements of these “great” “civilizations” of England and USA

    -> Settling a huge proportion of the Earth’s surface and turning it from wasteland into civilisation
    -> Being responsible for more scientific and technological advances than any other European group

    3. Write down examples of “great literature” in England and USA

    Shakespeare, Milton, Blake, Coleridge, Byron, Keats, Austen, (George) Eliot, Trollope, Kipling, Hardy, Lawrence, James, Pound, (T.S.) Eliot

    • Replies: @Epigon

    Is that why American whites are more intelligent (according to PISA results)
     
    LOL, sure. Anyway, the claim was about great, tall, handsome Americans - a total nonsense of a statement that bears no semblence of reality.

    If we went into details and contributions of specific segments of USA white society, you might finally understand what I am pointing at.


    Being responsible for more scientific and technological advances than any other European group
     
    Having a narrow political and intellectual white elite that produces the great thinkers is not in any way opposed to the statement that USA mostly got the bottom of Europe. It is a historical fact.

    You missed Germans and Germany, which dwarf British and USA contributions in field of sciene and engineering from 1850 to 1945.

    Shakespeare, Milton, Blake, Coleridge, Byron, Keats, Austen, (George) Eliot, Trollope, Kipling, Hardy, Lawrence, James, Pound, (T.S.) Eliot
     

    Wow, so many 18th and 19th century world big literary names, especially Americans!
    Anglocentrism is so funny. You are unironically naming no-names in world literature as world dominating authors of the period and literary titans.
  199. @Talha
    That's nice - are you an American citizen?

    Peace.

    Would I need to be a Japanese citizen to know that you’re not Japanese?
    Do you think that a piece of paper makes you an American?

    • Replies: @iffen
    Do you think that a piece of paper makes you an American?


    Yes, American is a true melting pot; it's just that the fire under the pot has nearly gone out and people like Talha and the SJWs won't let us re-kindle the hot flame.
    , @Talha
    If you are not an American citizen then your opinion has absolutely no practical bearing on the issue so the more proper analogy would be...

    A dog was born in the dog house, but the horses let it into the stable, branded it like a horse and consider it a horse...so the dog doesn’t really care what the pig and goat say...

    Peace.
  200. @Anon 2
    Re:England and America vs. women

    I think that England and America created other things that were important
    to women, e.g., great literature, and being rich, could import fine wines, fabrics
    etc. England, specifically, was so far ahead of everyone in industrial
    development that the English women could see they had many advantages
    over their sisters on the continent. The great attraction of emigrating to
    America in the 18-19th centuries was the idea of 'living large.' This was never
    available in Europe. Even the people were taller. Compare the way Americans
    live today in their huge McMansions to the cramped conditions in Europe.
    My real estate agent jokingly said to me, "It's a sin to live in such a big house."
    Many middle-class Americans live today the way only nobles lived in
    Europe. And most women love real estate, love to 'live large," and love to see
    themselves as the lady of the house.

    To expand on the concept of ‘living large’ in America,
    let me give another example. My university office is
    much larger than the offices of the professors I visited
    in Europe, and I’m a typical example. I’m not even a chair
    or a dean. I’m only a full professor. It is this type of ‘living
    large’ that America has been offering to its upper middle
    class for at least 200 years, one of many reasons why
    the U.S. still remains a great civilization. How much longer?
    This is something nobody knows

  201. @Anon 2
    Continuing with my theme of great vs. failed civilizations.

    As mentioned before, I think that only England, France, and the U.S.
    deserve the credit of having created great civilizations, sadly all three
    being now in steep decline. And this claim must be accompanied
    by a lot of caveats, mainly due to the fact that humanity seems unable
    to rise above the level of smart chimps - we are tribal, aggressive,
    revengeful, territorial, and status-seeking. One can debate the reasons, e.g.,
    the fact that sea powers and countries with natural borders have an
    advantage over land powers and countries with no natural borders,
    but I'd rather focus here on failed civilizations.

    A sine qua non condition of a great civilization is beauty because beauty is
    truth and truth is beauty. People are attracted to beauty, and a civilization
    cannot be considered great without being a great attractor. Failed
    civilizations typically don't deserve more than an F or a D in beauty.
    For example, consider the Russian language. Corresponding to the simple
    word like 'socialist,' what do we have in Russian? 'Sotsialisticheskaya'
    (using the feminine ending), and even longer forms when you do the
    declension and look at the genitive or ablative. This, and countless
    examples of this form, to me encapsulate why the Russian language could
    never be a carrier of a great civilization. I'm reminded of a Russian
    woman who said she went to Italy to be surrounded by beauty - beautiful
    language, great cuisine, and beautiful landscapes. Sadly, speaking as
    a Central European, the same applies to all Slavonic languages - one
    reason why Central and Eastern Europe failed to create great civilizations.

    On the other hand, French (due to its liaison, for example in 'les amis'),
    Italian, and even Spanish are effortlessly beautiful. English is too staccato
    a language to be considered beautiful, it doesn't flow like French or Italian
    but due to the voluminous vocabulary of French, Latin, and Greek origin it
    cannot be considered ugly, and it is extremely flexible and efficient.

    even Spanish are effortlessly beautiful

    In Galicia, maybe

  202. @utu
    Sorry, it was a joke that only existed in my mind. But you got it.

    Thanks for explanation. This I think agrees with the categories form this table:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/TablesMigrationStatusSex.html

    Population in private households with migrant background in the narrow sense was 23.5% in 2017. These are the subcategories:

    (1) Germans with migration experience of their own - 6.4% (?naturalized migrants including ethnic Germans from, say, Russia?)

    (2) Germans without migration experience of their own - 5.64%. (?2nd and higher generation of migrants who naturalized?)
    (3) Foreigners with migration experience of their own - 8.71%. (?foreigners residents?)
    (4) Foreigners without migration experience of their own -1.81%. (?children born in Germany of foreign residents?)

    The category (2) seems to me the most difficult comprehend. Do they keep track of your parent or grandparent status?


    Now this table gives the number of children with and w/o migrant background for 2017.
    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    For under 5 years of age it is 60.9% for w/o and 39.1% 'children with migrant background'.

    Assuming that 'children with migrant background' are children from 'households with migrant background in the narrow sense' then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    Obviously it would be hard to to get ethnic data but it would be important to know how many of 23.5% households are actually Europeans: ethnic Germans, ethnic Slavs, ethnic Romanian, Hungarian, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Italians. If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

    Assuming that ‘children with migrant background’ are children from ‘households with migrant background in the narrow sense’ then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    TFR in Berlin in 2015 and 2016

  203. @Epigon

    2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days.
     
    You're a certified imbecile. The whole of Roman Empire at its peak had between 40 and 60 million, population, spread across three continents.
    Italy never surpassed the 10 million total population and you number JEWS in tens of millions in 1st century AD?

    Re: Jewish population in the Roman Empire

    According to Wikipedia, the global Jewish population in the 1930s was
    17 million. One always hears the assertions that the number of Jews today
    is roughly the same as 2,000 years ago, i.e., 10-15 million. No one knows
    for sure because the exact number depends on the definition of who is Jewish:
    religious, secular, ethnic, etc. Do half Jews count? Ron Unz and others
    can’t even agree on the total Jewish enrollment at Harvard. But suppose
    that the number of Jews in the Roman Empire was 8-10 million, as many
    sources suggest. That was more than enough to form a separate country.
    Much smaller numbers formed medieval countries such as Hungary or Poland.

    • Replies: @Epigon

    My university office is
    much larger than the offices of the professors I visited
    in Europe, and I’m a typical example.
     
    Does your office have rubber walls and polite assistants dressed in all-white?

    One always hears the assertions that the number of Jews today
    is roughly the same as 2,000 years ago, i.e., 10-15 million.

     

    I have no doubt all sorts of interesting "assertions" can be heard in the "university" at which you work.

    No one knows
     
    Except for tax and census data

    for sure because the exact number depends on the definition of who is Jewish:
    religious, secular, ethnic, etc.
     
    I think the Hellenic and Roman administrators didn't bother with distinction, but what do I know? I am a small European, living in small living quarters, who attended a small university, outside of civilization.
  204. @anonymous coward

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese
    ...
    In contrast, I could listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
     
    This is true, but sung Chinese is beautiful and manly, while sung Japanese is retarded wailing.

    Just goes to show that these long-winded quasi-theories are bullshit.

    Re: Spoken Chinese vs. sung Chinese

    Do I need to state the obvious and say that the relevant comparison is
    between the spoken languages. That’s what people hear when they
    listen to the Chinese Americans speaking their native tongue(s),
    and that’s what they mainly hear when they visit China.

  205. @anonymous coward

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese
    ...
    In contrast, I could listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
     
    This is true, but sung Chinese is beautiful and manly, while sung Japanese is retarded wailing.

    Just goes to show that these long-winded quasi-theories are bullshit.

    Re: Long-winded quasi theories

    ‘Quasi theories’ would describe perhaps 99% of what is posted on Unz.com,
    and 95% of what is taught at universities outside of STEM and medicine.
    Unfortunately, as Plato’s Protagoras and much later Nietzsche, pointed
    out, our quest for knowledge is ruled by perspectivism. All our knowledge
    is partial, a needlessly pessimistic point of view in physics or chemistry,
    but certainly valid in areas such as history, literature, art, law, economics,
    linguistics or sociology.

    My posts were a bit long-winded because I think the esthetic point of view
    in describing countries has not received enough attention on this blog.
    Inxreasingly, especially as women are becoming better educated and gaining
    more power, countries are beginning to compete in soft power as much as
    in military power. Hence the esthetic point of view in marketing and branding
    on the national level will become increasingly important.

  206. @DFH
    Would I need to be a Japanese citizen to know that you're not Japanese?
    Do you think that a piece of paper makes you an American?

    Do you think that a piece of paper makes you an American?

    Yes, American is a true melting pot; it’s just that the fire under the pot has nearly gone out and people like Talha and the SJWs won’t let us re-kindle the hot flame.

    • Replies: @Talha

    and people like Talha
     
    I don’t know what I have to do with this; I’m not against Muslims integrating into society nor have I said I am opposed in principle to American citizens kicking me out if they demand that the parameters of me staying are that I have to completely assimilate.

    Earlier this year, my daughter - who is in theater, was the stage manager on her high school troupe’s rendition of The Diary of Anne Frank. I am not joking.

    Peace.
  207. @Talha
    That’s fine if you want to make that point and expand the subject even further into this discussion. Then it no longer is specific to Middle East Christians, but non-Muslim minorities (in general) in Muslim countries. In short, this question is highly dependent on the kinds of Muslims around and the ones in charge of the country inasmuch as whether the question of Jews being compatible with Germany is also dependent on the kind of Germans around and its leadership.

    Peace.

    whether the question of Jews being compatible with Germany is also dependent on the kind of Germans around and its leadership.

    Yes, but most Germans are not and were not Nazis. All Muslims are Muslim, or at least claim to be.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Correct and not all Muslims are Daesh-type extremists. So again, depends on what kind of Muslims you have around and who are in charge.

    Peace.
  208. @DFH
    Would I need to be a Japanese citizen to know that you're not Japanese?
    Do you think that a piece of paper makes you an American?

    If you are not an American citizen then your opinion has absolutely no practical bearing on the issue so the more proper analogy would be…

    A dog was born in the dog house, but the horses let it into the stable, branded it like a horse and consider it a horse…so the dog doesn’t really care what the pig and goat say…

    Peace.

    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    An Englishman has a much better idea of what an American is than a Pakistani Mohammedan who was awarded a trophy for participation.
  209. @iffen
    whether the question of Jews being compatible with Germany is also dependent on the kind of Germans around and its leadership.

    Yes, but most Germans are not and were not Nazis. All Muslims are Muslim, or at least claim to be.

    Correct and not all Muslims are Daesh-type extremists. So again, depends on what kind of Muslims you have around and who are in charge.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Correct and not all Muslims are Daesh-type extremists. So again, depends on what kind of Muslims you have around and who are in charge.

    Germans were controlled by a group of Germans (Nazis) with an ideology/religion. It depended upon the ideology (type) of German. German was the root; Nazis were a variety. Islam is an ideology/religion. Islam is the root. Nationalities, ethnicities, races, Sufis, Daesh-types, Wahhabies, etc. are the varieties.
  210. @iffen
    Do you think that a piece of paper makes you an American?


    Yes, American is a true melting pot; it's just that the fire under the pot has nearly gone out and people like Talha and the SJWs won't let us re-kindle the hot flame.

    and people like Talha

    I don’t know what I have to do with this; I’m not against Muslims integrating into society nor have I said I am opposed in principle to American citizens kicking me out if they demand that the parameters of me staying are that I have to completely assimilate.

    Earlier this year, my daughter – who is in theater, was the stage manager on her high school troupe’s rendition of The Diary of Anne Frank. I am not joking.

    Peace.

  211. school troupe’s rendition of The Diary of Anne Frank. I am not joking.

    I am appalled, but not surprised (by now) that you would consider The Diary of Anne Frank as some sort of political test. You really need to get a handle of your Jew-phobia.

    • Replies: @Talha
    It’s not - it is a sign of cultural integration as was her production of Williams’ Streetcar. I already took and passed my political test - I have no problems upholding the Constitution...the Constitution can (and has undergone) change if the citizens deem it...not the rule I wrote into it, it was like that when I got here. I accepted it on its own grounds.

    Peace.
  212. @Mitleser
    Elites of the founding nations of the European projects run the EU,
    that means elites of France, Germany, Benelux and Italy.

    Elites of the founding nations of the European projects run the EU

    Yeah, I know, it’s not like back in the time of H. when the proles and plebes were running everything.

  213. @iffen
    school troupe’s rendition of The Diary of Anne Frank. I am not joking.

    I am appalled, but not surprised (by now) that you would consider The Diary of Anne Frank as some sort of political test. You really need to get a handle of your Jew-phobia.

    It’s not – it is a sign of cultural integration as was her production of Williams’ Streetcar. I already took and passed my political test – I have no problems upholding the Constitution…the Constitution can (and has undergone) change if the citizens deem it…not the rule I wrote into it, it was like that when I got here. I accepted it on its own grounds.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    It’s not – it is a sign of cultural integration as was her production of Williams’ Streetcar. I already took and passed my political test

    Not that kind of politics. The kind of politics that says, “My daughter can’t be a Jew-hater like most Muslims; she helped in the production of The Diary of Anne Frank.”
  214. @Talha
    Correct and not all Muslims are Daesh-type extremists. So again, depends on what kind of Muslims you have around and who are in charge.

    Peace.

    Correct and not all Muslims are Daesh-type extremists. So again, depends on what kind of Muslims you have around and who are in charge.

    Germans were controlled by a group of Germans (Nazis) with an ideology/religion. It depended upon the ideology (type) of German. German was the root; Nazis were a variety. Islam is an ideology/religion. Islam is the root. Nationalities, ethnicities, races, Sufis, Daesh-types, Wahhabies, etc. are the varieties.

    • Replies: @Talha
    So it depends on the interpretation of Islam that takes hold of the society and leadership. And not all interpretations are the same or yield the same results - for instance, Daesh immediately started destroying historical monuments and pre-Islamic relics that Muslims had left alone all this time. That was my point.

    Peace.
  215. @Talha
    It’s not - it is a sign of cultural integration as was her production of Williams’ Streetcar. I already took and passed my political test - I have no problems upholding the Constitution...the Constitution can (and has undergone) change if the citizens deem it...not the rule I wrote into it, it was like that when I got here. I accepted it on its own grounds.

    Peace.

    It’s not – it is a sign of cultural integration as was her production of Williams’ Streetcar. I already took and passed my political test

    Not that kind of politics. The kind of politics that says, “My daughter can’t be a Jew-hater like most Muslims; she helped in the production of The Diary of Anne Frank.”

    • Replies: @Talha
    I already know my daughter and I don’t hate Jews for the simple reason that we don’t hate Jews. Most Jews I have come across have had cordial and friendly interactions, I simply keep the subject of Israel out of it and they are intelligent enough to do the same.

    I’ve met some Muslims that hate Jews deeply but not the majority of Muslims that I’ve come across -especially among my generation; it’s not even close. If you have some polls about Muslims in the US that say otherwise, I’d love to see them.

    Peace.
  216. @Epigon
    1. American whites are hobbits compared to Europeans. American whites are often descended from bottom dwellers of European societies

    2. Name elements of these "great" "civilizations" of England and USA

    3. Write down examples of "great literature" in England and USA

    4. Where do ignorant tards like you get the idea that European poor emigrating to America and struggling to survive, forced by famines, crop diseases and poverty, doing manual labour in sweat shops, living in slums of 19th century had any idea of mansions?

    5. Would you be so kind and fuck off to your glorious real estate, pretentious senile "book writer"? No one is interested in your stupid, repetitive rants on matters you clearly have no idea, and which has been demonstrated to you previously.

    Your arguments about culture are not well taken but your observation that we are dealing with the case senility must be correct otherwise the nonsense he is spouting inexplicable. Anon 2 is why the word Fremdscham was invented.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    This isn't the first time the ignoramus in question lashed out against Spanish, Hellenic, Italian and German culture/civilization, and indulged in pointless, nonsensical drivel.
    Italy alone has more of both culture and civilization than all of the Anglo offshoots combined; not to delve deeper into the rest of his arbitrary ramblings.
    I don't understand what is the driving force behind his narcissistic escapades, could just be a case of determined trolling.
  217. @Epigon

    2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days.
     
    You're a certified imbecile. The whole of Roman Empire at its peak had between 40 and 60 million, population, spread across three continents.
    Italy never surpassed the 10 million total population and you number JEWS in tens of millions in 1st century AD?

    Sounds about right. There were a lot of Old Testament Jews back in those days. The key is to understand that those Old Testament guys have no relation to the guys who call themselves ‘Jews’ today.

    • LOL: iffen
  218. @DFH

    1. American whites are hobbits compared to Europeans. American whites are often descended from bottom dwellers of European societies
     
    Is that why American whites are more intelligent (according to PISA results) than Europeans and created a more prosperous and succesful society than almost all of Europe?
    Aren't you some sort of South Slav anyway? Truly the bottom end of the European race

    2. Name elements of these “great” “civilizations” of England and USA

     

    -> Settling a huge proportion of the Earth's surface and turning it from wasteland into civilisation
    -> Being responsible for more scientific and technological advances than any other European group

    3. Write down examples of “great literature” in England and USA
     
    Shakespeare, Milton, Blake, Coleridge, Byron, Keats, Austen, (George) Eliot, Trollope, Kipling, Hardy, Lawrence, James, Pound, (T.S.) Eliot

    Is that why American whites are more intelligent (according to PISA results)

    LOL, sure. Anyway, the claim was about great, tall, handsome Americans – a total nonsense of a statement that bears no semblence of reality.

    If we went into details and contributions of specific segments of USA white society, you might finally understand what I am pointing at.

    Being responsible for more scientific and technological advances than any other European group

    Having a narrow political and intellectual white elite that produces the great thinkers is not in any way opposed to the statement that USA mostly got the bottom of Europe. It is a historical fact.

    You missed Germans and Germany, which dwarf British and USA contributions in field of sciene and engineering from 1850 to 1945.

    Shakespeare, Milton, Blake, Coleridge, Byron, Keats, Austen, (George) Eliot, Trollope, Kipling, Hardy, Lawrence, James, Pound, (T.S.) Eliot

    Wow, so many 18th and 19th century world big literary names, especially Americans!
    Anglocentrism is so funny. You are unironically naming no-names in world literature as world dominating authors of the period and literary titans.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson


    Having a narrow political and intellectual white elite that produces the great thinkers is not in any way opposed to the statement that USA mostly got the bottom of Europe. It is a historical fact.
     
    This is an interesting "fact". In fact three of the four main British groups that settled America were prosperous and high status within Britain. The fourth group (Scotch-Irish) was not, but they do make excellent soldiers. Also present at the founding were a fair number of Dutchmen, mainly prosperous merchants. Half of white Americans trace their roots to before the Declaration.

    Of the Ellis Island immigrants, one-third returned to Europe. For Italians, half returned. It was mainly those who couldn't hack it in America who returned.


    You missed Germans and Germany, which dwarf British and USA contributions in field of sciene and engineering from 1850 to 1945.
     
    Incidentally, there are 50 million German-Americans. Including Presidents Hoover, Eisenhower, and Trump.

    They continued their scientific and engineering achievements in America. Boeing, Westinghouse, IBM, and Goodyear were all founded by German-Americans.


    Wow, so many 18th and 19th century world big literary names, especially Americans!
    Anglocentrism is so funny. You are unironically naming no-names in world literature as world dominating authors of the period and literary titans.
     
    Comparing literature from different languages is a difficult exercise which I will not attempt.

    I will say that English literature is better than American. Honestly, I think the best American author is Tom Wolfe. But he hasn't been dead long enough to get such a title (he's also bad at endings).
    , @DFH

    You missed Germans and Germany, which dwarf British and USA contributions in field of sciene and engineering from 1850 to 1945.
     
    No they don't. The alleged German discoveries also include many Jews. German-fetishism is hilarious.

    https://i.imgur.com/ySaBlBA.png

    Wow, so many 18th and 19th century world big literary names, especially Americans!
    Anglocentrism is so funny. You are unironically naming no-names in world literature as world dominating authors of the period and literary titans.
     
    More than any other modern country except France.
  219. @iffen
    Correct and not all Muslims are Daesh-type extremists. So again, depends on what kind of Muslims you have around and who are in charge.

    Germans were controlled by a group of Germans (Nazis) with an ideology/religion. It depended upon the ideology (type) of German. German was the root; Nazis were a variety. Islam is an ideology/religion. Islam is the root. Nationalities, ethnicities, races, Sufis, Daesh-types, Wahhabies, etc. are the varieties.

    So it depends on the interpretation of Islam that takes hold of the society and leadership. And not all interpretations are the same or yield the same results – for instance, Daesh immediately started destroying historical monuments and pre-Islamic relics that Muslims had left alone all this time. That was my point.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Nznz
    What is the difference between a flexible interpretation and heresy? Is there an interpretation of Islam that would be OK with gay marriage and hook ups?
  220. @Anon 2
    Re: Jewish population in the Roman Empire

    According to Wikipedia, the global Jewish population in the 1930s was
    17 million. One always hears the assertions that the number of Jews today
    is roughly the same as 2,000 years ago, i.e., 10-15 million. No one knows
    for sure because the exact number depends on the definition of who is Jewish:
    religious, secular, ethnic, etc. Do half Jews count? Ron Unz and others
    can't even agree on the total Jewish enrollment at Harvard. But suppose
    that the number of Jews in the Roman Empire was 8-10 million, as many
    sources suggest. That was more than enough to form a separate country.
    Much smaller numbers formed medieval countries such as Hungary or Poland.

    My university office is
    much larger than the offices of the professors I visited
    in Europe, and I’m a typical example.

    Does your office have rubber walls and polite assistants dressed in all-white?

    One always hears the assertions that the number of Jews today
    is roughly the same as 2,000 years ago, i.e., 10-15 million.

    I have no doubt all sorts of interesting “assertions” can be heard in the “university” at which you work.

    No one knows

    Except for tax and census data

    for sure because the exact number depends on the definition of who is Jewish:
    religious, secular, ethnic, etc.

    I think the Hellenic and Roman administrators didn’t bother with distinction, but what do I know? I am a small European, living in small living quarters, who attended a small university, outside of civilization.

  221. @Anon 2
    Continuing with the topic of failed civilizations, what about China or Israel?
    While I'm proficient in Russian and French, and reasonably so in German,
    I confess my ignorance of Chinese or Hebrew. But I can see or hear what
    fails the criterion of beauty.

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese, and checking the
    the Internet, this is not an uncommon response. I remember suffering
    through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor
    in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone
    in class. And the Chinese, being arrogant, never accepted the idea that
    you're supposed to learn English when you teach in America.
    China is No.1, so who needs English? Plus the Chinese characters are
    some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. In contrast, I could
    listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
    The language is so beautiful. And don't get me started on Chinese
    names vs. Japanese names. The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop
    a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing
    writing system, and yet they failed at this task.

    Now Israel. Hebrew is also not a pleasant language to listen to, and the
    Jews obviously completely failed at developing a great civilization. And they
    could have. 2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days. The Jews could
    have formed a separate country in the waning days of the Roman Empire.
    After all, the Magyars reached Europe rather late, and were still able to form
    a separate country. Why did the Jews fail at this task? I'm not a historian
    but I suspect they were too comfortable living as a wealthy group in cities
    like Alexandria, letting others do the dirty jobs. So I'd hypothesize that the
    Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to
    till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves. They exploited
    others for these tasks. Hence, to put it delicately, until they create a
    great civilization, the Jews have nothing to teach us. Get back to us, when
    you do!

    The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing writing system, and yet they failed at this task.

    Some beauty takes thousands of years of development to be appreciated. If Brits or Poles are around for another 3000 years then perhaps they may evolve to the point of appreciating it as well. Hopefully your children are a tiny bit more appreciative already. Speaking of children, ask them to tune up your dotage medication so the embarrassment feed back loop kicks in so we do not have to feel it vicariously for you.

  222. @utu
    Your arguments about culture are not well taken but your observation that we are dealing with the case senility must be correct otherwise the nonsense he is spouting inexplicable. Anon 2 is why the word Fremdscham was invented.

    This isn’t the first time the ignoramus in question lashed out against Spanish, Hellenic, Italian and German culture/civilization, and indulged in pointless, nonsensical drivel.
    Italy alone has more of both culture and civilization than all of the Anglo offshoots combined; not to delve deeper into the rest of his arbitrary ramblings.
    I don’t understand what is the driving force behind his narcissistic escapades, could just be a case of determined trolling.

    • Replies: @utu
    Old age on top of congenital stupidity.
    , @utu

    lashed out against Spanish
     
    It is very sad that Spanish cultural accomplishments have been pushed aside. The sidelining I suspect was a conscious cultural policy of England which ultimately was very successful. Sometimes I wonder how the world would looked liked to us if its description was written by Spaniards. There are tonnes of old books in Spain's libraries that have not been translated to other languages. There are archives that we know nothing about and there is literature that is under appreciated. Spaniards conducted legal and philosophical debates that were unthought of in England at that time and still would be incomprehensible to Americans. Lope de Vega wrote over 1500 plays and 500 hundreds survived but nobody knows much about it. And Shakespeare is being pushed down the throats in every culture generation after generation. It is relentless. Cultural policy of English, British Empire and continued by American Empire is the most blatant and successful form of cultural suprematism that ever occurred in history. Only Jewish suprematism can match it and right now it is using the Anglo-American vehicle to do it. The roots of it are deeper and should be looked at the battle on spiritual level which for Brits and Americans was distilled to the tension between Catholicism and Protestantism. Probably nobody could coherently explain anymore what was the essence of the differences as far as philosophical and social issues but they were important. But the hate still is alive. For the Brits and Americans things are simple because they are really simple minded in how they see the world. Their philosophies of empiricism and pragmatism are reflections of their minds. And this is their strength because it brings everything down to the bottom line. Show me your money. No wonder they attract simpleton aficionados like our poor Anon 2. In this simplicity they have the meme of Spanish Armada they still keep telling jokes about it and manage to get lots of laughs. It is pretty amazing.
  223. @Talha
    So it depends on the interpretation of Islam that takes hold of the society and leadership. And not all interpretations are the same or yield the same results - for instance, Daesh immediately started destroying historical monuments and pre-Islamic relics that Muslims had left alone all this time. That was my point.

    Peace.

    What is the difference between a flexible interpretation and heresy? Is there an interpretation of Islam that would be OK with gay marriage and hook ups?

    • Replies: @Talha

    What is the difference between a flexible interpretation and heresy?
     
    Good question - the parameters we have are flexible to a point. Generally, the scholars reach a consensus on a matter that defines the limits of interpretive leeway. So for instance, there are differences of opinion on what exactly is required for a marriage contract, but none of the schools say you can marry a man or more than four women at a time. When something has been set in stone for nearly 10-12 centuries, it’s pretty obvious that it is a defined rule.

    Heresy by the way is something that has to do with beliefs and we actually have flexibility there. For instance, Imam Ibn Rushd (ra) - aka Averroes - had heretical beliefs, but is still considered an authority for legal rulings in the Maliki school.

    Is there an interpretation of Islam that would be OK with gay marriage and hook ups?
     
    Yes there is, but not by anybody that has the prequisite qualifications to make interpretations. ;)

    Peace.
  224. @Epigon
    This isn't the first time the ignoramus in question lashed out against Spanish, Hellenic, Italian and German culture/civilization, and indulged in pointless, nonsensical drivel.
    Italy alone has more of both culture and civilization than all of the Anglo offshoots combined; not to delve deeper into the rest of his arbitrary ramblings.
    I don't understand what is the driving force behind his narcissistic escapades, could just be a case of determined trolling.

    Old age on top of congenital stupidity.

  225. @neutral
    This image perfectly captures the insanity of the global immigration zeitgeist.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/Border%20Fence%20Spain%20Golf%20course.jpg

    For those that want context, this is one of those Spanish areas in North Africa, where Africans are storming them at increasing rates.

    even the golf hole is going to get raped

  226. @iffen
    It’s not – it is a sign of cultural integration as was her production of Williams’ Streetcar. I already took and passed my political test

    Not that kind of politics. The kind of politics that says, “My daughter can’t be a Jew-hater like most Muslims; she helped in the production of The Diary of Anne Frank.”

    I already know my daughter and I don’t hate Jews for the simple reason that we don’t hate Jews. Most Jews I have come across have had cordial and friendly interactions, I simply keep the subject of Israel out of it and they are intelligent enough to do the same.

    I’ve met some Muslims that hate Jews deeply but not the majority of Muslims that I’ve come across -especially among my generation; it’s not even close. If you have some polls about Muslims in the US that say otherwise, I’d love to see them.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    Who (what group) thinks that The Diary of Anne Frank says something about the JQ?
    , @iffen
    I retract the accusation of the Jew-hating label. It's not accurate.
  227. @Nznz
    What is the difference between a flexible interpretation and heresy? Is there an interpretation of Islam that would be OK with gay marriage and hook ups?

    What is the difference between a flexible interpretation and heresy?

    Good question – the parameters we have are flexible to a point. Generally, the scholars reach a consensus on a matter that defines the limits of interpretive leeway. So for instance, there are differences of opinion on what exactly is required for a marriage contract, but none of the schools say you can marry a man or more than four women at a time. When something has been set in stone for nearly 10-12 centuries, it’s pretty obvious that it is a defined rule.

    Heresy by the way is something that has to do with beliefs and we actually have flexibility there. For instance, Imam Ibn Rushd (ra) – aka Averroes – had heretical beliefs, but is still considered an authority for legal rulings in the Maliki school.

    Is there an interpretation of Islam that would be OK with gay marriage and hook ups?

    Yes there is, but not by anybody that has the prequisite qualifications to make interpretations. ;)

    Peace.

  228. @Mikel

    I don’t know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia... certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree
     
    Oh, come on. Everybody feels superior to their neighbors everywhere in the world. Argentinians feel superior to Chileans, Chileans feel superior to Peruvians, Peruvians feel superior to Bolivians. Even southern Bolivians feel superior to their northern compatriots. I lived in that part of the word, I know. Most definitely, we Basques feel unapologetically superior to Spaniards. Why would we want to be independent from them if that wasn't the case? Our sense of superiority over the French is somewhat mitigated though, hence the lack of a strong separatist movement in the French Basque Country.

    Perhaps it is just inevitable that you Germans feel some sort of biological superiority over the rest of mankind. You are the strongest nation at the core of Europe and you have a widely recognized tradition of efficiency and prosperity. You are also the center of the Germanic group of countries that shaped the modern world. But, given your strength and your historical record at stirring massive conflicts, you'll have to excuse the rest of us from watching you closely and being weary that you don't return to your old ways. I think that Asians have all this much better figured out with regards to the Japanese and don't feel the need to hide their feelings so much towards each other.

    I can also understand that basically no living German has any personal responsibility in it but the scale of the monstrosities initiated by Germans a few generations ago has just no historical precedent. It might take one or two centuries of peaceful coexistence until full trust is recovered.

    At a personal level, one of the reasons why I would not want the Basque Country to become independent right now is because the unnecessary atrocities committed by my terrorist compatriots are too recent. I don't trust the sincerity of their regret and don't want to share a national project with that kind of people until enough time has gone by to start a healthy process. Backward as they may be, the Spaniards didn't deserve the vicious suffering that some of my countrymen inflicted upon them. As I see it, spending some more time under Spanish rule is a necessary price to pay for the excess violence of the past.

    but the scale of the monstrosities initiated by Germans a few generations ago has just no historical precedent

    Bolsheviks

  229. @Epigon
    This isn't the first time the ignoramus in question lashed out against Spanish, Hellenic, Italian and German culture/civilization, and indulged in pointless, nonsensical drivel.
    Italy alone has more of both culture and civilization than all of the Anglo offshoots combined; not to delve deeper into the rest of his arbitrary ramblings.
    I don't understand what is the driving force behind his narcissistic escapades, could just be a case of determined trolling.

    lashed out against Spanish

    It is very sad that Spanish cultural accomplishments have been pushed aside. The sidelining I suspect was a conscious cultural policy of England which ultimately was very successful. Sometimes I wonder how the world would looked liked to us if its description was written by Spaniards. There are tonnes of old books in Spain’s libraries that have not been translated to other languages. There are archives that we know nothing about and there is literature that is under appreciated. Spaniards conducted legal and philosophical debates that were unthought of in England at that time and still would be incomprehensible to Americans. Lope de Vega wrote over 1500 plays and 500 hundreds survived but nobody knows much about it. And Shakespeare is being pushed down the throats in every culture generation after generation. It is relentless. Cultural policy of English, British Empire and continued by American Empire is the most blatant and successful form of cultural suprematism that ever occurred in history. Only Jewish suprematism can match it and right now it is using the Anglo-American vehicle to do it. The roots of it are deeper and should be looked at the battle on spiritual level which for Brits and Americans was distilled to the tension between Catholicism and Protestantism. Probably nobody could coherently explain anymore what was the essence of the differences as far as philosophical and social issues but they were important. But the hate still is alive. For the Brits and Americans things are simple because they are really simple minded in how they see the world. Their philosophies of empiricism and pragmatism are reflections of their minds. And this is their strength because it brings everything down to the bottom line. Show me your money. No wonder they attract simpleton aficionados like our poor Anon 2. In this simplicity they have the meme of Spanish Armada they still keep telling jokes about it and manage to get lots of laughs. It is pretty amazing.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    Excellent post, once again my thoughts exactly. The British portrayal/propaganda against Spanish is the Black Legend, a systematic effort throughout ages, where a de facto piratical nation preying upon merchant convoys and employing pirates as admirals lectures on civilization and virtues.

    It even spread to encompass all Catholics during the 16th/17th century period - for example http://oi48.tinypic.com/dx1h69.jpg

    With Lope de Vega, you hit the nail on the head. Spain in 16th and 17th century was a unique culture where Military Career was most prestigious. And none more so than Tercios, which was also the most dangerous service.
    Along with Lope de Vega, the other famous Spanish authors such as Cervantes, Calderon de la Barca, Gongora, Quevedo were Tercio soldiers/officers, and had served in front-line combat ranks. If I remember correctly, higher strata of Spanish society didn't participate in trade and moneylending, and they were oriented towards military, religion and agriculture. So, an altogether opposite from mercantilistic, materialistic islanders.
    So in a span of a single century, Spain/Habsburgs fought France, Ottomanans (they had an alliance), Dutch rebels (not all Dutch were initially supportive of rebellion, Amsterdam welcomed Duke of Alba/Alva), German Protestants and England, with Scandinavians of course supporting the Protestant side.
    Naturally, this caused the negative portrayal of Spain in the centuries that followed, when Spanish power waned and its erstwhile enemies prospered and gained clout.

    , @DFH

    Lope de Vega wrote over 1500 plays and 500 hundreds survived but nobody knows much about it. And Shakespeare is being pushed down the throats in every culture generation after generation.
     
    I studied Lope de Vega, de la Barca and Molina in Spanish at school, and they do not even come close to Shakespeare in depth. Most of the plays (a few exceptions like La Vida es sueno, which have other flaws, aside) are incredibly shallow. The poetry of that period is similarly prissy and insufferable.
  230. @Talha
    I already know my daughter and I don’t hate Jews for the simple reason that we don’t hate Jews. Most Jews I have come across have had cordial and friendly interactions, I simply keep the subject of Israel out of it and they are intelligent enough to do the same.

    I’ve met some Muslims that hate Jews deeply but not the majority of Muslims that I’ve come across -especially among my generation; it’s not even close. If you have some polls about Muslims in the US that say otherwise, I’d love to see them.

    Peace.

    Who (what group) thinks that The Diary of Anne Frank says something about the JQ?

    • Replies: @Talha
    I don’t understand the question, sorry...

    Peace.
  231. @utu

    lashed out against Spanish
     
    It is very sad that Spanish cultural accomplishments have been pushed aside. The sidelining I suspect was a conscious cultural policy of England which ultimately was very successful. Sometimes I wonder how the world would looked liked to us if its description was written by Spaniards. There are tonnes of old books in Spain's libraries that have not been translated to other languages. There are archives that we know nothing about and there is literature that is under appreciated. Spaniards conducted legal and philosophical debates that were unthought of in England at that time and still would be incomprehensible to Americans. Lope de Vega wrote over 1500 plays and 500 hundreds survived but nobody knows much about it. And Shakespeare is being pushed down the throats in every culture generation after generation. It is relentless. Cultural policy of English, British Empire and continued by American Empire is the most blatant and successful form of cultural suprematism that ever occurred in history. Only Jewish suprematism can match it and right now it is using the Anglo-American vehicle to do it. The roots of it are deeper and should be looked at the battle on spiritual level which for Brits and Americans was distilled to the tension between Catholicism and Protestantism. Probably nobody could coherently explain anymore what was the essence of the differences as far as philosophical and social issues but they were important. But the hate still is alive. For the Brits and Americans things are simple because they are really simple minded in how they see the world. Their philosophies of empiricism and pragmatism are reflections of their minds. And this is their strength because it brings everything down to the bottom line. Show me your money. No wonder they attract simpleton aficionados like our poor Anon 2. In this simplicity they have the meme of Spanish Armada they still keep telling jokes about it and manage to get lots of laughs. It is pretty amazing.

    Excellent post, once again my thoughts exactly. The British portrayal/propaganda against Spanish is the Black Legend, a systematic effort throughout ages, where a de facto piratical nation preying upon merchant convoys and employing pirates as admirals lectures on civilization and virtues.

    It even spread to encompass all Catholics during the 16th/17th century period – for example
    With Lope de Vega, you hit the nail on the head. Spain in 16th and 17th century was a unique culture where Military Career was most prestigious. And none more so than Tercios, which was also the most dangerous service.
    Along with Lope de Vega, the other famous Spanish authors such as Cervantes, Calderon de la Barca, Gongora, Quevedo were Tercio soldiers/officers, and had served in front-line combat ranks. If I remember correctly, higher strata of Spanish society didn’t participate in trade and moneylending, and they were oriented towards military, religion and agriculture. So, an altogether opposite from mercantilistic, materialistic islanders.
    So in a span of a single century, Spain/Habsburgs fought France, Ottomanans (they had an alliance), Dutch rebels (not all Dutch were initially supportive of rebellion, Amsterdam welcomed Duke of Alba/Alva), German Protestants and England, with Scandinavians of course supporting the Protestant side.
    Naturally, this caused the negative portrayal of Spain in the centuries that followed, when Spanish power waned and its erstwhile enemies prospered and gained clout.

    • Replies: @DFH

    Spain in 16th and 17th century was a unique culture where Military Career was most prestigious
     
    Pretty embarassing that they lost so much then
  232. it’s always interesting to see how one bit of divide and rule trolling can cause so many different ripples

  233. @Anon 2
    Continuing with the topic of failed civilizations, what about China or Israel?
    While I'm proficient in Russian and French, and reasonably so in German,
    I confess my ignorance of Chinese or Hebrew. But I can see or hear what
    fails the criterion of beauty.

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese, and checking the
    the Internet, this is not an uncommon response. I remember suffering
    through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor
    in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone
    in class. And the Chinese, being arrogant, never accepted the idea that
    you're supposed to learn English when you teach in America.
    China is No.1, so who needs English? Plus the Chinese characters are
    some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. In contrast, I could
    listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
    The language is so beautiful. And don't get me started on Chinese
    names vs. Japanese names. The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop
    a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing
    writing system, and yet they failed at this task.

    Now Israel. Hebrew is also not a pleasant language to listen to, and the
    Jews obviously completely failed at developing a great civilization. And they
    could have. 2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days. The Jews could
    have formed a separate country in the waning days of the Roman Empire.
    After all, the Magyars reached Europe rather late, and were still able to form
    a separate country. Why did the Jews fail at this task? I'm not a historian
    but I suspect they were too comfortable living as a wealthy group in cities
    like Alexandria, letting others do the dirty jobs. So I'd hypothesize that the
    Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to
    till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves. They exploited
    others for these tasks. Hence, to put it delicately, until they create a
    great civilization, the Jews have nothing to teach us. Get back to us, when
    you do!

    I remember suffering through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone in class.

    You should post a recording of yourself speaking English so that we could all laugh at your accent.

    Plus the Chinese characters are some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language could never be a carrier of a great civilization.

    You know what language has an ugly writing system? Polish.

    You guys should switch to Cyrillic alphabet. It fits Slavic languages (and the Romanian) far better.

    So I’d hypothesize that the Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves.

    So I take it you’ve never heard of Jewish uprisings against the Roman Empire?

  234. @anonymous coward

    But you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years
     
    Yes, if by '70 years' you mean '1070 years'. Russia never had open intercourse with Europe, not unless you count coming in and toppling your oppressive regimes as 'intercourse'.

    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
     
    USA culture is alien to everyone, including Americans themselves. (Thus the phenomenon of American self-hate.) USA culture is an artificial, inhuman creation.

    You seem to confuse Hollywood “culture” with the way that many millions of us traditional Americans still live, love, think, believe, and work. Nothing artificial or inhuman at all.

    I know the best and worst of the USA, born and raised here and lived in about ten States, and it’s mostly getting worse, but get out and see the full picture.

    Normal married Americans with children — proud of their ancestors, language, and mores; willing to fight to defend our land and way of life but NOT looking for a fight — not confused about their own sexuality, their own identity, and not confused about their primary loyalties and duties to God, family, and nation — would typically have a lot in common with normal married people with children elsewhere, including Russia.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Normal married Americans with children — proud of their ancestors, language, and mores; willing to fight to defend our land and way of life but NOT looking for a fight — not confused about their own sexuality, their own identity, and not confused about their primary loyalties and duties to God, family, and nation — would typically have a lot in common with normal married people with children elsewhere, including Russia.
     
    Normality is not culture. Culture starts where 'being normal' stops. And all of this in America is absolutely artificial and inhuman.
  235. @iffen
    Who (what group) thinks that The Diary of Anne Frank says something about the JQ?

    I don’t understand the question, sorry…

    Peace.

  236. @Hyperborean

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women – fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know.
     
    How do you reconcile this with your view that England and America were great civilisations?

    If you think America doesn’t have fine wine and cuisine, you aren’t trying hard at all. What country are you even talking about? Not the one where I live.

    Now, as for more and more Americans finding it hard to afford regular food and drink, let alone that fine wine and cuisine, that’s another story,and a different problem.

    • Replies: @iffen
    If you think America doesn’t have fine wine and cuisine

    Hail Yeah!

    Mad Dog 20/20 and Mickey Ds.
    , @Hyperborean

    If you think America doesn’t have fine wine and cuisine, you aren’t trying hard at all. What country are you even talking about? Not the one where I live.
     
    I'm curious - do you have some examples?
  237. @Mikel
    All this talk of cucky Germans having become a country of foreigner lovers is a big myth, in my personal experience.

    In my late teens I spent a whole winter learning German with a native family in a small town of Rheinland-Pfalz, West Germany. I was the only foreigner in town, with the exception of a Dutchman. With a lot of effort I did manage to get a good grasp of the language but it wasn't easy. Most locals were as unwelcoming as it gets. They would speak their Frankish dialect all the time but frown at my using their colloquialisms, if I ever allowed myself to.

    We once went shopping to a bigger town nearby and I remember making some casual comment at the simple sight of some Turks in the central square. My companions would inform me that in the weekends "it got worse". I also remember their remarks when we visited a family member at a hospital and passed through the maternity section where most newborn babies seemed to be Turkish, "how ugly, all that black hair...".

    One good thing about that long winter is that I got to read an original copy of Mein Kampf, written in Gothic characters. This family had managed to hide it away from the American occupation forces and it was now passed from generation to generation. This was a family "open" enough to want to host foreign students.

    Later on I worked in multilingual support centers across Europe for different IT companies and it was common knowledge among everybody that German/Austrian customers were the most difficult to deal with. Scandinavians, Dutch, Brits and Southern Europeans were much more easy going. The French were hot and cold. Eventually, an English workmate shared with me the big secret of how to deal with German customers. Pretend that you don't understand their language and force them to speak in English. It worked wonders. They would slow down and go on the defensive. Problems that appeared insurmountable suddenly became easy to manage.

    I've met some nice Germans -outside of Germany- but, as Gunther Grass (if memory serves) warned, don't ever trust them too much. They continue to be mightily proud of themselves and I don't believe that whatever forces set them in motion a few generations ago to conquer and enslave their neighbors are totally vanished.

    Probably a sound characterization of Germans still.

    But Germans don’t have children. So nothing they believe or think is going to matter much. They are a rapidly aging, dwindling people. They won’t be a threat even to the invaders among them, let alone to any foreign country.

    • Replies: @Talha
    Naw man - you gotta invest long on the Germans like one does on the Persians. We're talking Germans, bro!

    Peace.
  238. @German_reader

    Russia is just a European country
     
    But you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years because of communism, I would have expected some lingering effect of that (which certainly exists in relations between West and East Germany which were only divided for 40 years).
    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
    Thanks for your answer.

    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
    Thanks for your answer.

    For some concrete ways.

    Russia in reality, easily one of the most secular countries in Europe. Modernity of lifestyle not different, except in material level, than neighbours of Northern Europe.

    America on the other hand – more like a Middle Eastern country in its religious style, which effects people’s whole lifestyle. Probably even the easiest way to make friends for Americans, is to join your church.

    Young Americans have religious rock festivals, and often find their friends and girlfriends through their church (or Scientology Centre, Mosque, Synagogue, etc). I’m not sure there is parallel for Europe. American religious life is a lot more like a Middle Eastern country in this dimension.

    (Obviously, with qualification – America has a huge advantage since they have a very well designed system to separate religious and political life).

    Likewise, for urban planning, which is a very large determinant in culture shock, most million and over cities in Russia are an incompetent version of European layout of similar size city.

    On the other hand, American city layout is radically different and original, and designed around car driving, and also possibly including more exotic goals like separation of racial groups. Driving around Los Angeles – and it’s a completely new kind of city layout, which is nowhere in Europe. (Maybe in Brazil or Mexico it is more similar?)

    We could also write about more vague dimensions like “collectivist mentality”. Of course, Russia is on a more similar collectivist mentality as other Northern European countries – Sweden, Germany, etc, than America.

    you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years because of communism, I would have expected some lingering effect of that (which certainly exists in relations between West and East Germany which were only divided for 40 years).

    Well Italy has Mussolini for 20 years.

    Spain has Franco for almost 40 years.

    Germany has Hitler, for 12 years, and GDR another 40 years.

    A lot of countries in Europe have shit governments. In case of Germany, it was far more extreme than everyone else, if for shorter time.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward

    Russia in reality, easily one of the most secular countries in Europe.
     
    Get out of your Jewish enclave more often. It'll be scary but illuminating for you.
    , @German_reader

    Well Italy has Mussolini for 20 years.

    Spain has Franco for almost 40 years.
     
    I don't think they ever restricted travel though...if I understand correctly, it wasn't easy to get out of the Soviet Union. There was of course still some academic and intellectual contact with European countries, but in a limited and controlled way.
    America is getting more secular now as well, but your basic point seems sensible to me...same about the difference between European and American cities (I suppose Russian cities are built around public transport as well, that's indeed a European commonality then).
    Thanks for your reply, that was interesting.
    , @Anon
    Mussolini and Franco didn't cut off intercourse in much of any sense.

    Mussolini if anything was eager to build contacts with America:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALy_A5owNUo
  239. @RadicalCenter
    Probably a sound characterization of Germans still.

    But Germans don’t have children. So nothing they believe or think is going to matter much. They are a rapidly aging, dwindling people. They won’t be a threat even to the invaders among them, let alone to any foreign country.

    Naw man – you gotta invest long on the Germans like one does on the Persians. We’re talking Germans, bro!

    Peace.

  240. @utu

    Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Then Germany
     
    I believe that the US is still the best in terms of attitudes towards the foreigners but in general the anglo immigrant countries are good ex definitione. Germany I am sure is OK but even before the recent immigration wave you could get bad looks if you were heard speaking foreign language in public which you did not get in the US though now they report of cases like this and blame Trump for it. In the US often people would ask you friendly and open curiosity question 'where are you from.' The question where are you form in the US is in general a friendly one. American ask this question each other to pin point the accents and it is not considered rude or nosy. However if you go to some places like small towns in Oklahoma they keep bigger distance which may feel off-putting. But they are more suspicious to each other over there. I think that American outward friendliness which exceeds anything you see in Europe could have arose from the necessity of accommodating strangers and foreigners. The friendliness is there to disarm, to show you do not mean harm.

    But in terms of benefits and opportunities for poor immigrants it is possible that Germany is better than the US or Canada.

    think that American outward friendliness which exceeds anything you see in Europe could have arose from the necessity of accommodating strangers

    I don’t see much advantage of superficial friendliness, if they don’t actually want to be your friend.

    Sure, there is a small advantage of creating a more civilized atmosphere and reducing your stress level.

    But then there is disadvantage, that being friendly itself is something which can lose its real aim.

    • Disagree: utu
    • Replies: @utu

    I don’t see much advantage of superficial friendliness, if they don’t actually want to be your friend.
     
    Jews have higher tolerance for unfriendliness so probably that's why you do not get it. Calculating advantage when it comes to being nice and friendly also can be consider as a Jewish thing.
    , @songbird

    I don’t see much advantage of superficial friendliness, if they don’t actually want to be your friend.
     
    It is a weird system. In that it varies considerably. In the countryside, many people are genuinely friendly to strangers. This is less true by degrees as you go towards the city.

    I've always wondered if it had something to do with race because the country/city difference was partly a racial one. And the influence of cities radiates outward because people in the suburbs work in cities.
    , @notanon

    I don’t see much advantage of superficial friendliness, if they don’t actually want to be your friend.
     
    "agreeableness" makes cooperation between strangers easier which creates greater synergy

    imo it's a big part of the relative success of NW Euros over the last 500 years

    it has a fatal flaw now that agreeableness is being manipulated by a hostile elite.
  241. Anonymous[311] • Disclaimer says:
    @theo the kraut
    > based Nazi Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary, wishing for a civil war with millions dead

    kontextwochenzeitung.de is a left wing online publication (only Wednesdays) that gets published in print on Saturdays in equally left wing taz newspaper. They claim to have the corresponding chat protocols without giving any proof, so this relies entirely on their credibility. Hardly a paper of record reported on the quotes, cf https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Ich+wünsche+mir+so+sehr+einen+Bürgerkrieg+und+Millione+Tote.+Frauen%2C+Kinder.%22

    The first hit is nominally the Heise Verlag, which is a reputable company publishing computer magazines, but Telepolis/Kommentare is the commentary section of blog-like publication of theirs. (https://www.heise.de/forum/Telepolis/Kommentare/Eine-ganz-normale-Nazi-Partei/Ich-wuensche-mir-so-sehr-einen-Buergerkrieg-und-Millione-Tote/posting-32364774/show)

    He seems to be a right winger and extremists certainly are trying to take over the AfD, yet I'm wary of these news.

    QUOTE: Nazi Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary, wishing for a civil war with millions dead …

    A “Nazi” party controlled and operated by government agents provocateurs existed in the former West Germany, operated by MI6 agent Adolf von Thadden whose sister had been executed by the actual Nazis.

    More recently, almost every “neo-Nazi” incident in Germany ended up revealing the presence of government agents, often from bitterly feuding rival agencies. Several murders were committed to cover up government involvement in these incidents.

    At present, Germany’s weakening government coalition (quietly supported by hard-left “Greens”) is using all resources of the Deep State to undermine the national-conservative AfD (Alternative for Germany). The injection of noisy agents provocateur to paint the party as “Nazi” is certainly part of the Deep State suppression project. Far more nefarious operations are likely in train.

    In fact, given the time of its foundation (after 2000), the AfD is the only party who never had ACTUAL National Socialists in its senior ranks.

    • Replies: @notanon

    More recently, almost every “neo-Nazi” incident in Germany ended up revealing the presence of government agents
     
    when incidents like this happen (which they always will from time to time) it's always better to go on the offensive and blame it on a media or fed plant rather than running around disavowing which looks weak - plus 95% of the time it is a media or fed plant.
  242. @RadicalCenter
    You seem to confuse Hollywood “culture” with the way that many millions of us traditional Americans still live, love, think, believe, and work. Nothing artificial or inhuman at all.

    I know the best and worst of the USA, born and raised here and lived in about ten States, and it’s mostly getting worse, but get out and see the full picture.

    Normal married Americans with children — proud of their ancestors, language, and mores; willing to fight to defend our land and way of life but NOT looking for a fight — not confused about their own sexuality, their own identity, and not confused about their primary loyalties and duties to God, family, and nation — would typically have a lot in common with normal married people with children elsewhere, including Russia.

    Normal married Americans with children — proud of their ancestors, language, and mores; willing to fight to defend our land and way of life but NOT looking for a fight — not confused about their own sexuality, their own identity, and not confused about their primary loyalties and duties to God, family, and nation — would typically have a lot in common with normal married people with children elsewhere, including Russia.

    Normality is not culture. Culture starts where ‘being normal’ stops. And all of this in America is absolutely artificial and inhuman.

    • Replies: @inertial
    All you know about American culture is what imbeciles around the world want to consume.
  243. @Dmitry

    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
    Thanks for your answer.
     
    For some concrete ways.

    Russia in reality, easily one of the most secular countries in Europe. Modernity of lifestyle not different, except in material level, than neighbours of Northern Europe.

    America on the other hand - more like a Middle Eastern country in its religious style, which effects people's whole lifestyle. Probably even the easiest way to make friends for Americans, is to join your church.

    Young Americans have religious rock festivals, and often find their friends and girlfriends through their church (or Scientology Centre, Mosque, Synagogue, etc). I'm not sure there is parallel for Europe. American religious life is a lot more like a Middle Eastern country in this dimension.

    (Obviously, with qualification - America has a huge advantage since they have a very well designed system to separate religious and political life).

    Likewise, for urban planning, which is a very large determinant in culture shock, most million and over cities in Russia are an incompetent version of European layout of similar size city.

    On the other hand, American city layout is radically different and original, and designed around car driving, and also possibly including more exotic goals like separation of racial groups. Driving around Los Angeles - and it's a completely new kind of city layout, which is nowhere in Europe. (Maybe in Brazil or Mexico it is more similar?)

    We could also write about more vague dimensions like "collectivist mentality". Of course, Russia is on a more similar collectivist mentality as other Northern European countries - Sweden, Germany, etc, than America.


    you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years because of communism, I would have expected some lingering effect of that (which certainly exists in relations between West and East Germany which were only divided for 40 years).
     
    Well Italy has Mussolini for 20 years.

    Spain has Franco for almost 40 years.

    Germany has Hitler, for 12 years, and GDR another 40 years.

    A lot of countries in Europe have shit governments. In case of Germany, it was far more extreme than everyone else, if for shorter time.

    Russia in reality, easily one of the most secular countries in Europe.

    Get out of your Jewish enclave more often. It’ll be scary but illuminating for you.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    What is this "Jewish enclave"? It's a religious one.

    Jews are highly religious, on a completely different scale. The most secular Jewish fraction of Israel, are generally living more religiously in basic criteria (relation to organized religion), than religious people in Russia/Europe.

    So, 98.8% of Russia don't attend church even once a month. And this 1.2% who are - it's mainly old women.

    Church attendance has been falling since its peak in early 1990s.

    In my hometown, around 2.7% of people visit any church service during Easter.

    But there are significant cities, like Chelyabinsk, where only 0,8% of people attend any Easter service.

    And these are the relevant statistics, not how many people believe god (which measures spirituality, not organized religion), or are baptised (I was baptised, and even been to Easter communion, when I was a kid, and yet my life is 100% separated from the organized religion, which I found less useful for my soul than listening to classical music or reading a book).

  244. @Talha
    If you are not an American citizen then your opinion has absolutely no practical bearing on the issue so the more proper analogy would be...

    A dog was born in the dog house, but the horses let it into the stable, branded it like a horse and consider it a horse...so the dog doesn’t really care what the pig and goat say...

    Peace.

    An Englishman has a much better idea of what an American is than a Pakistani Mohammedan who was awarded a trophy for participation.

    • Replies: @Talha
    I acknowledge that the Englishman thinks so. But they haven't run this place (or burnt down the capital buildings) in a hell of a long time, so...meh.

    Also, that's "Mahometan" - let's get it right as Americans...
    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions45.html

    Peace.
    , @Ali Choudhury
    Which Englishman is being referred to here? The typical English genotype has close to nil DNA from eastern Poland..

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/generation-zyklon-in-sweden/?highlight=Grandfather#comment-2347371

    Anyway about half of Germany's population of foreigners is from Europe, Ukraine, Russia, the US etc. so the 42% of children under six are unlikely to be all Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis. A little surprised Germany managed to avoid having Somali migration.
  245. @Thorfinnsson
    An Englishman has a much better idea of what an American is than a Pakistani Mohammedan who was awarded a trophy for participation.

    I acknowledge that the Englishman thinks so. But they haven’t run this place (or burnt down the capital buildings) in a hell of a long time, so…meh.

    Also, that’s “Mahometan” – let’s get it right as Americans…

    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions45.html

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Relevant: https://www.niu.edu/newsplace/whuk.html
  246. @Anonymous
    QUOTE: Nazi Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary, wishing for a civil war with millions dead ...

    A "Nazi" party controlled and operated by government agents provocateurs existed in the former West Germany, operated by MI6 agent Adolf von Thadden whose sister had been executed by the actual Nazis.

    More recently, almost every "neo-Nazi" incident in Germany ended up revealing the presence of government agents, often from bitterly feuding rival agencies. Several murders were committed to cover up government involvement in these incidents.

    At present, Germany's weakening government coalition (quietly supported by hard-left "Greens") is using all resources of the Deep State to undermine the national-conservative AfD (Alternative for Germany). The injection of noisy agents provocateur to paint the party as "Nazi" is certainly part of the Deep State suppression project. Far more nefarious operations are likely in train.

    In fact, given the time of its foundation (after 2000), the AfD is the only party who never had ACTUAL National Socialists in its senior ranks.

    More recently, almost every “neo-Nazi” incident in Germany ended up revealing the presence of government agents

    when incidents like this happen (which they always will from time to time) it’s always better to go on the offensive and blame it on a media or fed plant rather than running around disavowing which looks weak – plus 95% of the time it is a media or fed plant.

  247. @utu
    Sorry, it was a joke that only existed in my mind. But you got it.

    Thanks for explanation. This I think agrees with the categories form this table:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/TablesMigrationStatusSex.html

    Population in private households with migrant background in the narrow sense was 23.5% in 2017. These are the subcategories:

    (1) Germans with migration experience of their own - 6.4% (?naturalized migrants including ethnic Germans from, say, Russia?)

    (2) Germans without migration experience of their own - 5.64%. (?2nd and higher generation of migrants who naturalized?)
    (3) Foreigners with migration experience of their own - 8.71%. (?foreigners residents?)
    (4) Foreigners without migration experience of their own -1.81%. (?children born in Germany of foreign residents?)

    The category (2) seems to me the most difficult comprehend. Do they keep track of your parent or grandparent status?


    Now this table gives the number of children with and w/o migrant background for 2017.
    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    For under 5 years of age it is 60.9% for w/o and 39.1% 'children with migrant background'.

    Assuming that 'children with migrant background' are children from 'households with migrant background in the narrow sense' then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    Obviously it would be hard to to get ethnic data but it would be important to know how many of 23.5% households are actually Europeans: ethnic Germans, ethnic Slavs, ethnic Romanian, Hungarian, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Italians. If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

    During the “refugee crisis” the numbers I heard thrown around were, I think about 10% of the age cohort of males who were under 30, in Germany, for newcomers in that single year. The expectation was that they would, at a minimum, be reunited with an equal number of females, but probably more relatives.

    I don’t how accurate that number was but as an American I’d give a few lessons:
    1.) advocates/the press/government downplay the numbers significantly
    2.) demographic change happens much faster than practically anyone in Europe realizes
    3.) you cannot stop it by having more responsible/honest politicians or hoping they obey the law after the fact and deport them. It is the system.
    4.) it can only be stopped by dramatically changing the incentives, at every level

  248. @Talha

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.
     
    I know more about those countries than you as well. In fact, this weekend I'll be meeting up with a Libyan brother from the old days at UCLA who is coming to visit the area; I will be asking what he knows coming out of Libya. I know Iraqi brothers too, Kurdish as well. My wife's sister married and Egyptian, he was there during the Arab Spring wrapping up his last years before coming state-side. I've also traveled through Egypt, even in the parts where tourists don't care to go.

    Pakistan’s government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often
     
    Here is what is going on:
    "Although Pakistan's law takes the accusation of blasphemy very seriously and people have been sentenced to death, no one has ever actually been executed."
    https://www.rt.com/news/441190-blasphemy-death-sentence-rally-pakistan/

    There are one or two high-profile cases right now.


    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion
     
    Complete nonsense. First, I'm an American so go talk to a Pakistani. Second, the government of Pakistan does not willy-nilly arrest and kill off Christians for being Christians. What Pakistan has a serious problem with is vigilante violence; people accusing others of blasphemy and simply committing violence outside of court. Many cases don't even get to court. The people who do this kind of thing should be punished (as was the guy who killed Salman Taseer).

    The law says people are punished for blasphemy - as they should be in a Muslim country; so the government is not trying to punish innocent people, but someone who broke the law. The only questions here are; is the evidence substantial, is the trial open and fair, does the accused have the ability to defend themselves and is there an appeals process. If the trial was not carried out justly, then the accused should be acquitted - end of story. The government of Pakistan should indeed put its foot down and not yield to the demands of mobs.


    if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable
     
    Completely separate question; I was simply interested in pointing out Faith Goldy was a Zionist shill. I'm not interested in convincing you the Islamic model is preferable any more than I'm interested in convincing you that you should like the same dessert that I do - I've only been interested in making clear and accurate what it is; if you like it, cool - if you don't, cool.

    At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.
     
    Correct - and the Muslim extremists are being fought and killed by other Muslims in Muslim lands and thousands of Muslims have died trying to do so. A scholar I have cited often, Sh. Muhammad Yacoubi (ra) - who my own spiritual teacher learned the text of 'Nur ul-Idaah' under - stated it was an obligation to fight Daesh:
    http://www.refutingisis.com/

    My point was, the Muslim world is cleaning up the mess others handed to them. Daesh takfiris are killing non-Muslims and will continue to try to kill them in territories they control until they have been brought to heel. It is easier to fight them when you actually have a working army and police force and security apparatus. I cited how Egypt is fighting the extremists...question; do you think that fight would go better or worse if we invaded and destroyed Egypt's' army - to ask the question is to answer it.


    America’s Iraq invasion, was based on
     
    So you mean basically the line Netanyahu was feeding them..."I guarantee" he said. Not to mention the other Neocon fools who knew nothing about the region.

    But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.
     
    Correct, which is good because a majority of Iraqis weren't actually killing each other. There was serious sectarian violence for which each person involved will answer to God as well as the extremists that got out of control - they bear full responsibility for their actions. Just like looters during a riot, but can we agree that it is a stupid thing to do to complain why the cops aren't doing anything about armed and rioting mobs burning out shops when you've bombed out three quarters of the precincts? Can we at least agree to the rules of basic mathematics?

    Can we also agree that if you have rulers in the Muslim world (say like the King of Morocco and the government who is protective of the Jewish population) and a population in which the minorities are living in generally good terms...maybe, just maybe it's not a smart idea to topple that government and bomb the country's infrastructure so the people become desperate and law and order breaks down?

    Peace.

    First, I’m an American so go talk to a Pakistani.

    But your nationality and origin was Pakistani?

    So if you propose that modern life in white and European countries is so problematic all the time, then we can look at Pakistan for alternative, and then learn a new appreciation for our modern life.

    By the way, I have talked to intelligent, well educated Pakistani guy – his view was very against influence of Islamism in Pakistan. My impression this is much more the educated view in Pakistan.

    The law says people are punished for blasphemy – as they should be in a Muslim country; so the government is not trying to punish innocent people, but someone who broke the law.

    Lol so you actually support this. It seems extreme and immoral.

    If white and European countries, agreed to this kind of law, they could execute all Muslims (and other religions) like yourself for blasphemy. You use internet now, rely on satellite communications, fly in planes. It’s because of men like Giordano Bruno, which could do “blasphemy”.

    -

    Completely separate question; I was simply interested in pointing out Faith Goldy was a Zionist shill.

    And you are “Islamist shill”? You were angry with her because she wants to ban Muslim immigration, not because her views (which I google her now) about a 15 kilometer wide country in the Eastern Mediterranean, which is of limited importance and power even in Mediterranean, which is thousands of kilometers from where you live or come from.

    She seems, indeed, as a uneducated redneck. However, if you can be at all objective, you will understand her viewpoint is very rational.

    It seems like in most famous cities of the world, where Muslims were kindly allowed – whether Moscow, London, New York, Berlin, Paris, Boston etc. The most violent and immoral action that has occurred in recent history, was by Muslim immigrants who were warmly allowed to the country. Usually this involves murdering innocent civilians with suicide bombs or random massacres

    At the same, situation in Muslim countries is highly unsuccessful and undeveloped, with very few contributions. If I get cancer – I don’t think I will be saved by technology from a Muslim country.

    So there is inevitable that many people will be resistant to Islamic immigration or increasing Muslim demographics, like Faith Goldy (I don’t know if she will be Mayor of Toronto).

    Maybe it’s difficult situation for Muslims, and unfair on the majority which are not laying bombing, but objectively it can be seen there is a real problem of terrorism and violence in the community.
    .

    My point was, the Muslim world is cleaning up the mess others handed to them. Daesh takfiris are killing non-Muslims and will continue to try to kill them in territories they control until they have been brought to heel.

    I remember this years before “Daesh”. Every week in Iraq (or many other Muslim countries, and non-Muslim countries), there are regular massacres by Islamists, who build a bomb, and try to kill as many civilians as possible. In countries like Iraq, every week for years.

    Someone like America contributes to weakening the central authority in Iraq, idiotically. But the evil was endogenous. It’s not Americans who are building bombs and putting them in marketplace in Baghdad, over and over. Responsible people for these murders, are endogenous to the countries.

    So you mean basically the line Netanyahu was feeding them…”I guarantee” he said

    Netanyahu is a politician of a very small country, or (in real world) marginal power, who cannot even achieve basic election promises in Israel (very small country with average parameters) like deporting some Africans. It’s a sign of dishonestly, to try to talk about him, when we people are worried about Muslim immigration, because endless bombing and massacres that continue week after week, where a Muslim guy is building bombs and trying to kill civilians, all over the world.

    In Iraq, 2003 invasion was part of the problem. But in Paris? In London? In Moscow, New York, Boston, Manchester, Brussels, Berlin, etc, etc?

    • Replies: @Talha

    So if you propose that modern life in white and European countries is so problematic all the time
     
    It isn't - it is only problematic in the areas that are problematic. When have I proposed turning European countries into something like Pakistan? The reason people like my father came here is because they didn't want to live in a place like Pakistan.

    Lol so you actually support this.
     
    I support punishing public instances of blasphemy. But since the Hanafi school is flexible on the terms of punishment, I don't feel it is necessary to execute anyone when a fine or jail time will do just fine. I would like to see things changed so that the burden of evidence is raised so that people can't accuse people on a whim or abuse the law for personal gain.

    It seems extreme and immoral.
     
    Convince the Pakistanis to change to a more flexible interpretation as I outlined above. Since I don't support it, I feel no need to defend it.

    If white and European countries, agreed to this kind of law, they could execute all Muslims (and other religions) like yourself for blasphemy.
     
    I agree, it seems historical Christianity was quite inflexible when it came to interpretations of blasphemy. Not our problem - we define it our way. As the former Grand Mufti of Pakistan stated; blasphemy is publicly derision and reviling things like God and His Messenger (pbuh) - not academic criticism of Islamic doctrine since this is not covered lexically under blasphemy.

    You were angry with her because she wants to ban Muslim immigration
     
    Wrong again - I don't mind a ban on any immigration (Muslim or not). How many times exactly are you going to accuse me of supporting policies I don't?

    The most violent and immoral action that has occurred in recent history, was by Muslim immigrants who were warmly allowed to the country.
     
    Yup - which is why I can see why countries want to halt Muslim immigration. No problems here.

    but objectively it can be seen there is a real problem of terrorism and violence in the community.
     
    Agreed - we have an extremism problem we need to get under control.

    In countries like Iraq, every week for years.
     
    Yup - after the 2003 invasion - not before.

    Responsible people for these murders, are endogenous to the countries.
     
    Correct, as were the people keeping them in check - why did the US destroy the capability of the people keeping them in check? Again, a simple question; I cited that the government of Jordan is fighting and killing and jailing extremists in their midst. Now, would it be a good or bad idea to destroy their military and intelligence network?

    who cannot even achieve basic election promises in Israel
     
    But gets standing ovations in the US Congress - yeah, no influence there...

    when we people are worried about Muslim immigration
     
    Again, I have no problems shutting it down. Again, when did this recent wave of mass immigration start from destabilized countries? I'm talking about men like Netanyahu because they are a part of the problem. I cited and Israeli source stating clearly that they want the US to stay in the region and that they want the US to fight Assad. And I won't get into how many times they've tried to get the US to attack Iran. THAT leads to instability in the region which then leads to massive population movements and destabilization of borders. Libya is a launching pad for waves of immigrants, was it before Qaddhafi was toppled? No. This is not rocket science.

    What do Israeli military analysts prefer:
    "With regard to the global aspect, the Libyan issue raises several concerns. Firstly, there are question marks regarding the actual ability to enforce regimes of non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction on rogue states. Secondly, one may ask: would it be better to accept the stable regime of tyrants such as Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein, Assad and the Ayatollah regime in Iran, or should those tyrants be toppled despite the ensuing process where their countries disintegrate, which involves severe violence? As much as we may regret the situation in Syria and Iraq, it seems, at least from the Israeli perspective, that the second option is preferable – it is easier to confine and the situation may stabilize eventually."
    http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/content/gaddafis-mental-follies-and-megalomania

    And please, everyone knows how much influence pro-Israeli Neocons have had for a while in the US.

    Why are people like you not willing to acknowledge the "invade" part of the "invade and invite" equation?

    We can keep going if you want in any direction (as long as Mr. Karlin is cool with it), but two points:
    1) I'm 100% fine with shutting down Muslim immigration.
    2) Faith Goldy is still a Zionist shill.

    Peace.

  249. @Dmitry

    Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

     

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.

    Pakistan's government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often, if you believe the websites like Al Jazeera.

    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion (yet America allows to you, rightfully, a freedom to choose a different religion from the majority, or no religion).

    Th