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Merkel's Clever Plan
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Couple of telling Breitbart headlines.

* 42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background

The data comes from a two-year study by the German Federal Statistical Office which has shown not only has there been a strong increase of migrants coming to Germany from overseas, but also a strong trend of native Germans leaving to move abroad, Die Welt reports.

The effects are most clearly seen in western Germany where it is estimated that up to 42 percent of children under the age of six now come from a migration background, but the reason for the rapid change in demographics is not down to mass migration alone. …

Falling birthrates have also led to a decline among the native German population. As well as losing around 217,000 citizens due to emigration over the past two years, 500,000 more Germans died than were born over the same period. The result is a loss of 700,000 Germans in total, over only two years.

It’s a double whammy.

While the US continues to remains very attractive for white Americans, this doesn’t seem to be the case for Germany and native Germans. Not only are immigrants coming in, but Germans are going out.

That, coupled with higher US white fertility – even if it’s also falling fast – means that Germany is catching up with the US in the population replacement stakes, despite starting out so far behind.

Where are those Germans going?

Most, I suspect, go to the Anglosphere: The US, Australia, the UK (at least before Brexit). I assume the elderly are retiring in Iberia.

But there’s also a rising trend of downshifting to cheaper, whiter Eastern Europe.

* Germans “flee” to Hungary to escape Merkel’s migrant policy, fear “civil war”

In cases of ‘reverse migration’, Germans are moving from Western to Eastern Europe to resettle in “cheap, Muslim-free” Hungary in order to escape the chaos caused by German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s open door policy, reports Hungary Today. …

The seller of the property that the young couple viewed, which is on the market for €14,000 (around £12,000), said: “We are Christians…We don’t want Muslim neighbours. They have a different culture and are aggressive. And this we can’t accept.”

Approximately 30,000 Germans live on Lake Balaton, this number is said to have increased in the past year since the migrant crisis began.

We idiots thought Merkel just some stupid ditz inviting in Infinity Refugees because she felt really bad about that photo of the dead Syrian child or whatever. Women politics raus!

But in reality she was playing the ultimate game of 666D interdimensional Teichmuller chess!

The Germans will once again settle throughout Eastern Europe, reversing the expulsions at the end of World War II and recreating the Ostsiedlung.

Then the Based Nazis in the AfD will win the coming civil war:

“I wish so much for a civil war with millions dead. Women, kids, don’t care. Just want it to get started. It would be especially funny if it happened at a counter demonstration. Dead, crippled. I want to piss on corpses and dance on graves. SIEG HEIL!” – Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary.

They will then genocide the immigrants and stage a humanitarian intervention into Eastern Europe to protect their new German communities and to stop Russia from holocausting its remaining Jews.

It’s a brilliant plan I must admit. Galactic Brain tier.

 
• Category: Humor • Tags: Conspiracy Theories, Demographics, Germany, Immigration 
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  1. Hokie says:

    Ran into a few Germans scattered around Ukraine, mostly as upper management for various industrial companies. A handful were running beerhauses though, including a particularly good one in Poltava. There was also some political dissidents living in Kiev and associating with Azov.

    • Replies: @Jayce
  2. Where are those Germans going?

    Switzerland is quite popular (to the consternation of many Swiss).
    I don’t really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally…I guess one can still make good money there though.
    Anyway, the 42% of children with migrant background in West Germany is somewhat mitigated by the fact that many of those must be other Europeans (according to the official definition I have a migrant background myself, lol). Still, the overall trend is of course catastrophic, it’s hard not to feel total despair, especially since voting for the Greens (who are even worse open borders fanatics than Merkel!) now seems to be the cool thing to do for the degenerate bourgeoisie of this infantile lemming society.
    Merkel herself might possibly be soon overthrown, next Sunday there are elections in Hesse, and it looks grim for the CDU. Unfortunately her removal probably won’t change anything, since her replacement will probably be just as bad…a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.

  3. Rational says:

    ANGELA MERKEL—SHAM LEADER OF A SHAM DEMOCRACY.

    This is quite unfortunate, this ethnic cleansing of whites in Germany.

    Angela Merkel invited millions of 3rd world aliens illegally—the German parliament must approve this invasion for it to become law, but they never did.

    Germany was turned into a Jewish controlled police by USA (another Jewish controlled banana republic) after WW2.

    After WW2, USA basically took over Germany, and illegally had them pass a temporary framework called the “Basic Law” which gives all power to a “Federal Constitution Court” and installed a sham democracy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Constitutional_Court_of_Germany

    Even the German site below admits that theirs is a govt. under “Judicial control”.

    http://www.tatsachen-ueber-deutschland.de/en/political-system/main-content-04/the-basic-law.html

    This Basic Law is NOT the constitution, was never ratified by the people, was temporary and has already expired. This Basic law and this “Federal Constitutional Court” are therefore unconstitutional and therefore illegal and null and void:

    http://www.rense.com/general69/germany.htm

    Since the Basic Law is null and void, all of Angela Merkel’s decisions, such as allowing tens of thousands of 3rd world “refugees” and “migrants” to settle her country, her persecution of holocaust scholars, etc. are all ultra vires and therefore null and void.

    This illegal court*, is stuffed with Judges from the 2 main left wing parties, and these crooks then ban almost all right wing parties that are against immigration, etc. (often at the behest of the Judaists who file these cases, just like in other countries) so their left wing Jewish puppets like Angela Merkel remain in power.

    *In fact, even according to the liberal wikipedia, the appointment of Judges there is unconstitutional:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Constitutional_Court_of_Germany#Appointment_of_judges

    Germany is still US occupied territory with Angela Merkel as the puppet leader of a sham democracy.

    • Agree: Rosie
  4. Dmitry says:

    On emigration topic.

    It would be interesting to see chart of the longterm trend.

    But don’t emigration figures from Germany, actually seem very low, for a country within free-movement bloc (EU)?

    As well as losing around 217,000 citizens due to emigration over the past two years

    So 108,500 are emigrating per year.

    German population – 82,800,000.

    At the same time, Germany is inside a free-movement bloc, that allows any German an effortless emigration to a choice of 28 EU countries.

    German citizen can be a pensioner in Spain, or go to work in a bank (or cafe) in London, without even needing to write any paperwork.

    These might be low emigration numbers (?), and reflecting low unemployment rates of German economy?

    By comparison, 12% of Poland’s workforce has emigrated just to the UK after joining the EU.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @A.A.
  5. Jayce says:
    @Hokie

    There was also some political dissidents living in Kiev and associating with Azov.

    Speaking of which, seems ol’ Grindr Greg was in Kiev recently for the rough trade.

    https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/10/exposed-u-s-gladio-gathering-in-ukraine-neo-nazi-pederast-greg-johnson-casapound-svoboda/

    • Replies: @Hokie
  6. Mitleser says:
    @German_reader

    a leading contender seems to be Rhineland Catholic über-cuck Armin Laschet who was once nicknamend Türken-Armin, due to his love for Turks.

    Laschet and his master.

  7. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    nglo countries are even more rotten

    In general, employment aged people who emigrate because they especially love culture or politics of a country they emigrate to, are not the normal motivation. Any larger flows of young people emigrating within the EU – it’s people responding to job opportunities.

    Emigration from Germany seems quite low – although maybe in some professions, like banking, there might be many Germans in London (?).

    Some patterns which I saw as common, are engineers and professionals from Spain and Italy, now common, after emigration, in other parts of the EU, which is predictable response to surplus of qualified people to jobs in the countries.

  8. Beckow says:

    There is no plan. People with no children don’t think about what will happen once they are gone. Merkel will live out her sad existence repeating ‘we meant well‘, ‘it seemed like the right thing to do “, “because, you know, we have values“.

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way. The rest of Germany will gradually transform into non-Germany, my guess would be broken trains by 2030, no manufacturing skills by 2040, and by 2050 most people will switch away from the German language. They might even put up statues of saint Angela. It took few thousands of years to build, it could be gone in 2-3 generations.

  9. Mitleser says:
    @Dmitry

    Poland was poor.

    Germany is not poor. Yet.

    German population – 82,800,000.

    That is the population of Germany.

    https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Bevoelkerung/Bevoelkerungsstand/Tabellen/Zensus_Geschlecht_Staatsangehoerigkeit.html

    “German” population = 73,013,300.

    It is steadily declining each year despite 100k+ naturalizations per year.

    https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/159084/umfrage/einbuergerung-von-auslaendern/

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  10. @Beckow

    There will be parts of Germany (east, Bavaria) that will probably end up going their own way.

    It would be great if that would happen, I would immediately move there and be a supporter of armed secession if necessary. But tbh it looks even grim for Bavaria, with major cities like Munich and Nuremberg being less and less German, the CSU is pretty cucked as well, with many of their top politicians claiming that their poor results in the recent elections were due to excessive criticism of Merkel and too much focus on the immigration and asylum issue (repellent to the Christian “refugees welcome” crowd! One mustn’t forget that the Catholic church is strongly in favour of Merkel’s policy…cardinal Reinhard Marx and the archbishop of Paderborn just donated 50 000 Euros each to one of those NGOs taking up Africans in the Mediterranean and bringing them to Europe). The CSU people have understood nothing, and in the end they only care about their own power and patronage networks anyway.
    The East is more militant, but it’s also demographically weak and doesn’t have much of a voice in the national debate which is dominated by totally brainwashed West Germans.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Beckow
  11. Dmitry says:
    @Mitleser

    Except during war, emigration determined by economics combined with easiness of emigration.

    Germany, with a too good economy, problems are immigration (too many people want to live in Germany, from both EU and non-EU). Germany’s emigration numbers are low, while immigration is too high.

    EU was designed for populations to freely relocate between different member states.

    Germans don’t seem to be moving to other countries in large numbers – only 0.13% of Germans are emigrating each year, while Germany receiving far more people from other EU states (not to mention, additional, immigration from non-EU states, such as hundreds of thousands of unfiltered Syrians and Turks).

    Everything in the EU is predictably symmetrical. Countries like Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, etc, suffer from problems of emigration. Countries like Germany, UK, Ireland, Sweden, suffer from problems of immigration.

    Some countries have too many people leaving, others too many people arriving. It emphasizes why, – from both sides – it was useful for countries to have borders.

  12. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    It would be great if that would happen, I would immediately move there

    What about Switzerland? German is majority language. Lots of jobs available in diverse fields – after enough years, you might be qualifying for citizenship.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  13. Mr. Hack says:

    They will then genocide the immigrants and stage a humanitarian intervention into Eastern Europe to protect their new German communities and to stop Russia from holocausting its remaining Jews.

    It’s a brilliant plan I must admit. Galactic Brain tier.

    Thanks Anatoly for this deep, deep analysis, based on…I like the effects of the LSD trip that you recently took on your thinking process and ability to synthesize current events and make such lucid projections for Germany’s and Russia’s future (I was actually looking for any indications that these thoughts of yours were sarcastic, but no, they appear not to be). Keep it up, your ratings must be going off the charts! :-)

    (Your stuff is much more entertaining than Averko’s or that other Stooge’s).

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  14. Twinkie says:

    The Germans will once again settle throughout Eastern Europe, reversing the expulsions at the end of World War II and recreating the Ostsiedlung.

    Drang nach Osten!

  15. Twinkie says:
    @German_reader

    I don’t really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere, if anything Anglo countries are even more rotten culturally…I guess one can still make good money there though.

    I know a couple of traditional Catholic German families that now live in the U.S. They live in a “conservative” area and homeschool their children. They are happy here in the States.

  16. > based Nazi Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary, wishing for a civil war with millions dead

    kontextwochenzeitung.de is a left wing online publication (only Wednesdays) that gets published in print on Saturdays in equally left wing taz newspaper. They claim to have the corresponding chat protocols without giving any proof, so this relies entirely on their credibility. Hardly a paper of record reported on the quotes, cf https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Ich+wünsche+mir+so+sehr+einen+Bürgerkrieg+und+Millione+Tote.+Frauen%2C+Kinder.%22

    The first hit is nominally the Heise Verlag, which is a reputable company publishing computer magazines, but Telepolis/Kommentare is the commentary section of blog-like publication of theirs. (https://www.heise.de/forum/Telepolis/Kommentare/Eine-ganz-normale-Nazi-Partei/Ich-wuensche-mir-so-sehr-einen-Buergerkrieg-und-Millione-Tote/posting-32364774/show)

    He seems to be a right winger and extremists certainly are trying to take over the AfD, yet I’m wary of these news.

    • Replies: @theo the kraut
    , @Anonymous
  17. @theo the kraut

    Else there’s de.nachrichten.yahoo.com, huffingtonpost.de, tagesschau.de. (reader commentary) Second/third rate news junk, no paper of record would touch it.

  18. melanf says:

    It’s a brilliant plan I must admit.

    Well then, in the Czech Republic, Merkel’s conspiracy is opposed by an even more cunning plan. I was in Prague at the beginning of February – the city was filled with a huge number of Chinese (in the crowd in the center of the city the Chinese were the majority at times).

    They were mostly tourists, but there were also” local ” Chinese (many shops were served by the Chinese).

    The second largest (among non-Czechs) were Russians. Prague was filled with huge crowds of tourists from Russia (including special tourists-gopniks. I’m not kidding, I actually saw a tourist group of gopniks). These tourists were served by local Russian-speaking (as it seemed to me mainly from Ukraine). Even some Chinese sellers in stores have learned Russian!

    But the Germans, contrary to my expectations there were very very few. The only notable German trace was a Vietnamese seller in a shop near our hotel – this seller stubbornly tried to speak to my wife in German

    • LOL: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Yevardian
    , @Spisarevski
    , @utu
    , @anon
  19. @Beckow

    my guess would be broken trains by 2030

    German trains were already broken in 2013, when I last visited. (Well, broken at least by Russian standards; it’s a high bar, but normally Germans should be able to clear it.)

  20. Nznz says: • Website

    ]OT but people you are not exactly making much sense here: assuming that you will want to roll back the poz and moral degeneracy and the like in Western culture, how exactly are you people planning to make it work without something akin to China’s social credit system? Especially if you plan to jettison the dues vult argument as being too irrational in nature, and plan to rely exclusively on secular reasons to restore public morality? In any case it is going to require a fairly heavy handed amount of govt intervention, like a revamped version of the 50s Hays code. So why in fact would something like China’s social credit system be the wrong tool to use in this case.

  21. neutral says:

    I have zero doubts that many of those fleeing will bring their left wing ideology right with them and try make the same happen to the places they fled to. I have encountered this cognitive dissonance amongst friends and even direct family, they will happily adhere to whatever the MSM tells them to think (Macron good, Le Pen bad, Putin is satan, Trump is a Russian agent, endless immigration is a right, etc, etc, etc), but then at times they will complain about all the massive demographic changes that are taking place.

  22. Nznz says: • Website

    I think that the opposition of Karlin and the people here against China’s social credit system is an attempt to virtue signal and pander to libertarians here like Abelard Lindsey.

  23. Yevardian says:
    @melanf

    That place has changed a lot, I don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.

    • Replies: @neutral
    , @melanf
  24. neutral says:
    @Yevardian

    That place has changed a lot, I don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.

    I wonder what the average Chinaman is thinking when they visit such places, do they really want to pay a lot to go to these places to see other Chinamen. Even worse than that, what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris, they paid a lot to blacks and browns.

  25. neutral says:

    This image perfectly captures the insanity of the global immigration zeitgeist.

    For those that want context, this is one of those Spanish areas in North Africa, where Africans are storming them at increasing rates.

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @oy whey
  26. @melanf

    a tourist group of gopniks

    Putin agents, the lot of them. All gopnik tourists are GRU agents. It is known.

    • LOL: Hyperborean
  27. utu says:
    @melanf

    https://brnodaily.cz/2018/02/15/breaking-news/tourism-to-czech-republic-up-9-1-in-2017/
    České noviny (Czech News, Feb. 8,2018) reports that while every region of the Czech Republic experienced an increase in tourism last year, the largest increase was in South Moravia, which witnessed a 14.6 percent spike in the number of visitors compared with 2016.

    Of these 20.1 million tourists nationwide, roughly half (10.2 million) were visiting from abroad, with the Germans (1.95 million), Slovaks (688,000) and Poles (578,000) being the most numerous.

    Russian tourism to the Czech Republic increased by 35.3 percent from the previous year, making them the fourth most numerous nationality to visit.

    There was also a large increase in tourism from East Asian nations such as China, South Korea, and Taiwan.

    • Replies: @melanf
  28. Nznz says: • Website
    @neutral

    Yan Shen and Stolen Valor Detective would say that the 10 point higher IQ from elite East Asian immigration is worth the race genocide?

  29. @Dmitry

    I don’t intend to leave Germany (nobody would take me anyway), and frankly I’m sick of all the people who come up with things like “All is lost anyway, let’s just move somewhere else and watch the end of Germany from afar!”. In their own way they’re just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.
    And you really need to stop reducing everything to economics.

  30. https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/6qyawt/alterspyramide_der_deutschen_bev%C3%B6lkerung_nach/

    that would be 2013. Generally don’t go very far, if you want the model just look at the US
    You’re just witnessing the import of a society paradigm. Much of the culture wars and PC onslaught shoved down people’s throats is just the accompanying ideology needed to make the transition

    Immediate differences are that the islamic element is much stronger in western Europe, although the US left now seems keen to correct (should be easy once the Trump train of morons self-destructs or is terminally gutted). The other is the welfare state which will get unsustainable but it makes sense that things should converge to US norms as well, that’s what someone like Macron is about after all

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  31. A.A. says:
    @Dmitry

    So 108,500 are emigrating per year.

    They’ve refined the way they count emigration, so about 140 000 German citizens left Germany in 2015 (more of less similar numbers in the years before that) and due to recalculations the number has jumped to ~280 000 German citizens emigrating in 2016.

    Here’s an amusing article on the topic: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article175104943/Abwanderung-Migrationsforscher-sieht-keinen-Grund-zur-Sorge.html?zanpid=11459_1527159215_2832a641aa47f8f7e2631eb7a1bcbb66 (Google translate does a well enough job)

    Some excerpts:

    Welt: The migration loss of 135,000 and the 880,000 deceased citizens in 2016, however, were compared to only 600,000 births of mothers with German citizenship. So, so to speak, the country has lost a net 400,000 citizens in just one year. Does society sustain such a severe shrinking of permanent workforce?

    Erlinghagen: Overall, the population in Germany is currently not shrinking – but growing. A distinction between population with German citizenship or without makes little sense from a socio-political point of view. But if you want to focus on German citizens, then I have pointed out that we have naturalizations on a similar scale as migrations.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  32. anon[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @melanf

    ‘Local’ chinese are in fact vietnamesse settled during comunist era. They come to learn but after some time many of them (~40k) never returned to Vietnam. They are hardworking and nice people.

  33. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    I don’t really understand Germans who are leaving for the Anglosphere

    German doctors love US apparently.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  34. iffen says:

    Maybe Russia should put the welcome mat out for Volga Germans as well as for the Boers.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @melanf
  35. utu says:

    This “42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background” seems way too be high.

    In Germany 14.5% out of total population is foreign born. So we may assume that 14.5% of mothers are foreign born. Let set x=(number of children in Germany)/(population of mothers in Germany). Then there are x*(42/14.5)=2.90*x children per foreign born mother versus x*(58/85.5)=0.678*x children per native born mother. This means that foreign born mothers have (2.90*x)/(0.678*x)=4.28 times more children than native born mothers on average. It can’t be.

    Let estimate the lower bound assuming mixed marriages.

    Assume that all migrant background children are Mischlinge, i.e., only father or mother are foreign born. Then we have 2*14.5%=29% mixed parents and 71% of native born parents. Then doing similar calculations we get 1.45*x children per mother from mixed marriage and 0.82*x of children per mother of native marriage. This gives us 1.8 times more children in mixed marriages. While the number feels good the assumption that all children are Mischlinge is not true. Only a small fraction of them is. So the number is between 1.8 times (100% Mischlinge) and 4.28 times (0% Mischlinge). I suspect that it closer to 15% Mischlinge which would produce still too high number.

    Germany has several millions Germans who were born in Russia, Romania and Poland. Are they counted in 14.5%? I am sure they are because Germany wants to wave the flag of friendly to immigrants country and boost the statistics to show how it is sacrificing itself on the altar of diversity.

    This 42% number looks like BS.

    • Agree: Yevardian
  36. @German_reader

    If Faith Goldy wins the Toronto election, will this have any impact on Europeans? Is this something that Europeans even know about and talk about?

  37. melanf says:
    @iffen

    Maybe Russia should put the welcome mat out for Volga Germans as well as for the Boers.

    No problem. In Russia, there are officially two German regions (in southern Siberia) with a total area of about 3,000 square kilometers (more than Luxembourg)
    But realistically speaking, this is an absolute utopia. The world has changed a lot and there are no more people who want to build farms on deserted lands. And if (for unknown reasons) the Germans begin to move to Russian cities – they quickly assimilated. It is believed that the “Russian Germans” live in Russia, but it is a fiction-today Russian Germans do not exist, but there are a couple of million Russian of German origin

    • Replies: @iffen
  38. iffen says:
    @melanf

    there are no more people who want to build farms on deserted lands.

    We (the US) can spare some Mormons.

  39. Yevardian says:
    @German_reader

    Well, Dmitri is the archetypal Russian liberal living in America. I guess I live abroad too, but diaspora is really the default state for us. And Armenia is a far, far more dysfunctional shithole than Russia.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  40. Yevardian says:
    @Peter Frost

    No and no, LOL. As Anglin said, she’s easily the hottest of the ‘alt-right’ thots, but that’s all you can say for her.

  41. Jason Liu says:

    Shouldn’t they stay and fight for their ethnic homeland? This isn’t the new world we’re talking about here. If China was being diversified I can see myself moving back there just to make it more Chinese.

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @iffen
    , @DFH
  42. neutral says:
    @utu

    What kind of number do you think it is?

    • Replies: @utu
  43. notanon says:
    @Beckow

    There is no plan.

    Clinton’s private speeches to the banks, the funding of political parties by the banking mafia throughout the West and the consistency of their media’s lies shows there is a plan – although I agree politicians like Merkel might not understand what that plan is.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  44. notanon says:
    @utu

    This “42% of children in West Germany comes from migrant background” seems way too be high.

    In Germany 14.5% out of total population is foreign born.

    you’re assuming “migrant background” = foreign born

    migrant background would include 2nd or 3rd generation Turks for example

  45. JRB says: • Website
    @German_reader

    Two months ago, during the Seehofer-crisis, all the main Dutch newspapers, who are nowadays mostly under control of the Clinton-faction within the deep state, were all writing that Jens Spahn would be the successor of Angela Merkel. I thought this was plausible since Spahn is a homosexual, he went trough the „Young Leader Program“ of the American Council for Germany and he even attended the Bilderberg conference last year. Laschet on the other hand only became minister-president of NRW by accident (implosion of the SPD). He is already in his late fifties, he is married and he even has children (nowadays a disadvantage). He also seems to have no backing from outside of Germany.

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @German_reader
  46. melanf says:
    @Yevardian

    don’t recall seeing a single Chinaman there when I was there last nearly a decade ago.

    In recent years, the Chinese began to travel EN masse to tourist trips. In Russia it is very noticeable – suddenly there were thick crowds of Chinese tourists. Now in St. Petersburg every fifth tourist is Chinese, and at the airports make announcements in Chinese. In the recent past, there were no Chinese tourists at all.

  47. notanon says:
    @Peter Frost

    it depends if the mainstream media report it – if they don’t then the only people who will know will be the people already following the alt-news – i’d imagine they would see it as a sign of the tide shifting.

  48. melanf says:
    @utu

    Of these 20.1 million tourists nationwide, roughly half (10.2 million) were visiting from abroad, with the Germans (1.95 million), Slovaks (688,000) and Poles (578,000) being the most numerous.

    When I was in Prague, the number of Chinese and Russian tourists clearly exceeded the number of German tourists (аbout Slovaks and Рoles can not say, because I can not distinguish them from the Czechs). Perhaps the reason is the season of the year, but perhaps the majority of German tourists just come to the border cities of the Czech Republic for shopping. Such quasitourism is flourishing around the Russian border with Finland

    • Replies: @Matra
  49. notanon says:
    @JRB

    Jens Spahn

    there does seem to be an emerging pattern of them using a kind of identikit smooth bland “metrosexual” as their puppets (Blair, Obama, Macron etc)

  50. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    In their own way they’re just as much cowards and traitors as the multiculti open border fanatics.

    Some might consider it a tactical retreat. In Spain, during the Islamic conquest, Christians fled North. This positive population growth helped facilitate the Reconquista.

    It is easier to have European children in less enriched areas, especially the larger that they are – nations easiest. Believe me, normal people speak of this in code, perhaps even subconsciously all the time in the US. They speak of “good schools.” What happens is that housing costs shoot way up because people try to get out of the enriched areas and price discrimination is the only legal means of segregation. Most jobs are in the city – they control the cities, so commute is an issue and that creates scarcity.

    What is really worrying though, I see black faces increasingly in the middle of the countryside. Both in the US and Europe.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  51. utu says:
    @neutral

    (a) All kids under age 6 who have one parent who was not born in Germany. For this case the number of 42% is too high.

    (b) All kids under age 6 who have one grandparent who was not born in Germany. This is unlikely as it would be hard to estimate though possible via statistical means but not directly.

    (c). All kids under age 6 who are not ethnic German. It would be very un PC to come up with this statistics.

    There 12 million foreign born in Germany. Some of them are from these groups:

    2-3 million ethnic Germans who were born outside Germany
    2 million Poles
    0.4 million Romanians
    0.6 million Spanish
    0.17 million Portuguese
    0.1 million Brits

    and

    4-5 million Turks
    0.4 (?) million Sub-Saharans

    and

    4.7 million Muslims

    In 2011 or 2013 it was found that Germany had actually 1.1 million less foreigners than they thought they had. They left w/o deregistering.

    • Replies: @Talha
  52. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Germans who were born in Russia

    Really, these people are just Russians in the more general sense (or representatives of whichever part of USSR they lived in).

    Ones who immigrated to Germany, say they had quite a difficult assimilation culturally, not less than a permanent emigration to any other country.

    • Replies: @utu
  53. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    Well, perhaps I am not knowledgeable about Germans and Swiss – but I cannot imagine it would be a very difficult, or distant, emigration (except in terms of paperwork) for a German to just travel over a border to another majority German speaking country (although one with the highest salaries and living standard in the world, as well as more sensible political affairs).

  54. Matra says:
    @melanf

    I stayed at a Prague hotel a couple of years ago that had so many Germans they played German radio in the breakfast room. I didn’t hear another language during my stay, other than the receptionist speaking English to me. This was outside the city centre. First time visitors try to stay near the city centre but those more familiar with the place they are visiting are more likely to be comfortable staying in the outskirts or in a regular ‘authentic’ neighbourhood. I’m guessing that Germans being more familiar with Prague than most foreigners and more likely to drive there, thus needing parking space, are also more likely to stay in off the beaten track hotels away from the old town so they might not be as visible as, say, groups of 30 Englishmen on the piss.

    In addition to the Vietnamese there are – used to be? – lots of people from ex-Soviet Central Asia. They ran the internet cafes and some other service-oriented businesses off Wenceslas Square. Just about all the internet cafes are gone now.

  55. iffen says:
    @Jason Liu

    Shouldn’t they stay and fight for their ethnic homeland?

    You are underestimating the extent to which ethnic pride and nationalist solidarity has become declasse among Western “whites.”

  56. Dmitry says:
    @Yevardian

    Calling “archetypal liberal” is not accurate. Obviously my views – correct or not – are not common with any group of people, and not archetypal.

    Also I don’t live in America – I have two years experience in West Europe. Without doing too much doxing, my brother has worked in California, and has not recommended America as a country to live in (apart from job aspects). America is a cool country in my view – for vacations.

    • Replies: @songbird
  57. melanf says:
    @iffen

    in the order of humor: in the Russian Zen-Buddhist animated series Kikoriki, one of the characters (Penguin) is an emigrant from Germany (or rather from Liechtenstein)

  58. @Anon

    US doctors have a median salary 3x higher than German ones, so this is hardly surprising.

    Nice to know that if I ever need a doctor (not likely) that perhaps I can get a German one instead of an Indian one.

    And to those who think all is lost, I would like to remind you all of the situation in Spain in the Year of our Lord 722, when the Reconquista began.

    Germany’s demographics are in many respects better than America. The Federal State Statistics Office states that 62% of children are of German ethnic origin. And as German_reader points out, many of the non-German children are still Europeans (though I was quite annoyed to meet someone of Spanish descent at a trade show with a German accent a few years ago).

    Only about half of births in America are now to “non-hispanic whites”, and this category includes Jews and even Middle Eastern Mohammedans. And incidentally this still doesn’t worry that much. The enemy, as always, is liberals.

    • Replies: @republic
  59. @Peter Frost

    Can she really win?

    I suspect she’d have more of an impact in the US and Canada.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Peter Frost
  60. Dmitry says:
    @A.A.

    It’s one of the main design goals of the EU – to increase volume of both immigration/emigration.

    EU citizens are supposedly to effortlessly circulate between different EU states, depending on job opportunities.

    Economic advantage – supposedly is to increase labour mobility, if the whole EU is viewed as the single country. Obviously, there is some internal contradiction, when everyone still thinks in terms of a concept of immigration/emigration, to describe movement inside this EU “single country”.

  61. @Dmitry

    The Swiss-Germans don’t consider themselves to be German the way Austrians do (or did at any rate).

    They will even hurl ethnic slurs at Germans, whom they consider to be inferior. My brother was once a victim of this owing mistaken identification (he speaks German).

    Anyone within the Schengen area can move to Switzerland, but becoming a Swiss citizen is actually extraordinarily difficult.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  62. Beckow says:
    @German_reader

    The thing about West Germans losing their mojo is scary. Nations lost wars before, nations were demonised before and they recovered. The lack of resilience displayed in Germany in the last 10-20 years is historically unique, something else might be going on. I think that Germany was wrong in WWII, it triggered a European cataclysm without thinking through the consequences, the obsession with wiping out its eastern neighbours was criminal. But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn’t black and white. Why can’t Germans move on and live with today’s realities?

    I can see the Church is a problem. There has always been a self-destructive element in Christianity, it is almost designed to be counter-evolutionary for its adherents. But the music is nice and one has to have a routine and some rituals during those inevitable life events. Either the church people have started the take the mushy verbiage in their sacred texts too seriously, or there are external forces using them. Maybe both.

    I have faith in large parts of Germany, well mostly the easterners, but it has to start with demographic strength. That would create its own dynamic, new attitudes, self-confidence. For that one has to have leaders invested in the future – and Merkel is the exact opposite.

  63. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    my brother has worked in California, and has not recommended America as a country to live in

    There’s been a general exodus of whites from California, arguably because the state has turned. Some still like to live there though.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  64. Pericles says:
    @songbird

    What is really worrying though, I see black faces increasingly in the middle of the countryside. Both in the US and Europe.

    I visited Kiruna a few years ago. Behind the counter of the pizza joint was a negro.

    Please note the location: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiruna

    • Replies: @songbird
  65. Russia should be making a play for these krauts. Or maybe I’m crazy, maybe Germans don’t want to move there. Russians seem rather Teutophile to me, so many Russians learn German.

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  66. songbird says:
    @Beckow

    I don’t think it was just them losing the war. I think de-Nazification became a kind of living political organism that got out of control, and spread its tentacles into other countries.

  67. Pericles says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    When visiting Zurich, I had a friendly social chat with some engineers. They all looked at me with suspicion when I expressed some admiration for a non-Germanic but still Swiss sports star. Excuse my faux pas, if you’ll permit the expression.

  68. Beckow says:
    @notanon

    An ideological dream is not a plan. It would be like saying that Christians have a plan, ‘die and go to heaven‘, or communist had a plan, ‘abolish money‘. Those are emotional defensive outbursts against reality, not plans.

    The current globalist plan is to mix up the populations, preferably dilute or eliminate the white groups, remove borders, unify languages, simplify logistics and financial transactions, and create privileged isolated enclaves for the selected few to supervise it. The key point is the desire to remove the (mostly) white European working-middle class people as a strong factor in the political life. They use two things: the post-modern ennui of the European population (caused by the previously achieved prosperity and some bloodshed) and the infinite desire of the 5 billion Third Worlders to escape their miserable fates.

    They have a goal, but as a ‘plan‘ it is on the same level of rationality as ‘let’s abolish money and we will all live in earthly paradise‘. Mixing up people leads to more conflict, not less. Mixing up connected vessels takes it down to the least common denominator, in wages, intelligence, culture – just test it in your garage.

    But you might be right that as a terminology it suffices; well, stupid people will have a stupid plan. Merkel fits right in.

  69. songbird says:
    @Pericles

    I believe Sweden has a kind of natural out – at least for blacks. Turn off the heat, and help facilitate them leaving, and they will leave in a hurry, IMO.

    Unfortunately I don’t think it will be as easy in more temperate or Southern areas of Europe.

  70. @neutral

    “what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris”

    Not sure they like it too much.

    https://www.thelocal.fr/20171109/french-robbers-prey-on-big-spending-chinese-tourists-in-romantic-paris

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-robbery-china/china-urges-france-to-protect-chinese-tourists-after-group-of-40-robbed-idUSKBN1D60YQ

    “BEIJING (Reuters) – China urged France on Monday to take more effective measures to ensure the safety of its nationals visiting the country, after a group of 40 Chinese tourists was tear-gassed and robbed in Paris.”

    However the Chinese are fighting back.

    https://www.vice.com/da/article/gqnzxj/are-chinese-tourists-the-worst-tourists-in-the-world

    “Outside the Louvre in Paris, there’s a sign in Mandarin which tells visitors not to defecate in the surrounding grounds. This sign is only written in Mandarin Chinese.”

    • Replies: @republic
  71. Talha says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Of course she can…

    For the love of…Is there just one of these people that gets coverage and publicity that does not whore for Israel? I’m just asking for one – you know, just one…? Please?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  72. Talha says:
    @utu

    In 2011 or 2013 it was found that Germany had actually 1.1 million less foreigners than they thought they had. They left w/o deregistering.

    Not surprising actually. They could probably accomplish this faster by doubling-down on the hyper-homo-mania. Especially things like requiring students to write Valentine’s Day letters to their same-sex class mates, requiring them to go to dances with the same gender, etc.

    If students were required to participate in this kind of thing in the US and we couldn’t have our own private schools, my family would easily think of leaving without a fuss.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @German_reader
  73. @Talha

    Faith Goldy hasn’t worked for The Rebel for some time now.

    She’s not getting much coverage either. She’s been banned from the mayoral debates (despite polling in the top #3), and Canadian TV is refusing to run the ads she bought (in violation of Canadian law). Just yesterday Google suspended her AdWords campaign for spurious reasons.

    As a result she’s run a guerrilla mayoral campaign. I’m not Canadian let alone Torontonian, so I couldn’t tell you how successful she’s been.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  74. Mitleser says:
    @utu

    No, you just do not know what are you talking about.

    Last year, 39,1% of all children were younger than 5 in the FRG had a migrant background.
    Among children who are 5-10 year old the share was 37,6%.
    42% is not a surprising number.

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    • Replies: @utu
  75. DFH says:
    @Talha

    I doubt that sort of indoctrination would actually work, it would probably be counter-productive if anything. School’s actual ability to coerce a large number of students is quite limited, especially if they don’t have the support of the childrens’ parents.

  76. notanon says:
    @Beckow

    They have a goal, but as a ‘plan‘ it is on the same level of rationality as ‘let’s abolish money and we will all live in earthly paradise‘. Mixing up people leads to more conflict, not less.

    that’s my point – for the people *funding* globalism that is the plan: 1) destroy high IQ populations and 2) spread maximum conflict for divide and rule. it’s a consciously evil plan. they know the end result will be very bad but (they think) not for them (and if it does turn out bad for them they’ll just move to China).

    i’m saying it’s possible politicians like Merkel are puppets who genuinely believe the media’s dishonest multicult utopia version of the globalist plan.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  77. Talha says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Faith Goldy hasn’t worked for The Rebel for some time now.

    Hmmmm – OK – because she was doing propaganda for them at least in 2017 – so I guess it depends on the definition of “some time”.

    Just yesterday Google suspended her AdWords campaign for spurious reasons.

    Interesting.

    As a result she’s run a guerrilla mayoral campaign.

    Definitely an interesting bid. Out of the establishment, pretty stoked about Israel, seems her only platform is; no more immigrants. And she seems not to have any real qualifications other than being some kind of a media personality…hell, she could run for POTUS!

    Peace.

  78. iffen says:

    hell, she could run for POTUS!

    Watch it!

    BTW, it’s not whoring if you sincerely love it.

    • Replies: @Talha
  79. Mitleser says:
    @Beckow

    But that is 75 years ago, 3 generations, and as with all conflicts it wasn’t black and white. Why can’t Germans move on and live with today’s realities?

    Because many Germans want to get rid off Germany in favor of EUrope.

    The “permissive consensus” that for several decades allowed European integration to proceed unimpeded was stronger in Germany than elsewhere, except perhaps in Italy.6 Up to today, “Europe”7 carries something like a sacred aura in Germany, too elevated to be linked to dirty concepts like national interest. The main strongholds of German Europeanism are the educated middle classes and the young generation, for whom Europe stands for all that is both virtuous and pleasant—from peace, human rights, tolerance, and “openness” to an international labor market and convenient travel across borders. Reflecting the difficulties of identifying with a German nation after 1945, German pro-European sentiment has long considered it self-evident that the EU is ultimately the vessel into which European nations can give up their separate states, identities, and interests. While other member states may have joined the EU to restore or preserve their national sovereignty,8 Germany is in the EU to get rid of it, firmly believing that this holds true for all others as well.

    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/05/europe-under-merkel-iv-balance-of-impotence/

    How do you expect such people to defend their old nation?
    They want to do the opposite and oppose pro-Germans.

    In a video interview with Informr, the new leader of the Green Party, Robert Habeck, made controversial remarks denying the notion of a German people, newspaper Junge Freiheit reports.

    When asked about the concept of betrayal of the people, Habeck says:

    “That’s a Nazi concept. There is no people, in consequence, there cannot be a treason of the people. It’s a statement of anger that can be really divisive, discriminatory and pernicious.”

    https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/05/germans-as-a-people-do-not-exist-so-they-cannot-be-betrayed-says-green-party-leader/

    • Replies: @Beckow
  80. Hokie says:
    @Jayce

    The male strippers and prostitutes are unfortunately advertised almost as much as their female counterparts, so not too surprising.

  81. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Watch it!

    I know – you have to be a born US citizen…otherwise some enterprising folks will pull a birth-certificate fiasco on her. Don’t worry, I’m in the same boat – being Karachi-born.

    it’s not whoring if you sincerely love it.

    True, but the money does help pay the bills.

    Peace.

  82. @Thorfinnsson

    I live in a country where the traditional sources of information are unreliable. Polling firms have repeatedly estimated Faith Goldy’s support at 3% or 6%. To win, she has to get a plurality, probably about 40% of the votes. So it seems like she doesn’t have a chance.

    And yet those same polls show that a third of all voters are undecided. That’s an ususually high proportion, and I suspect that most of those undecideds are people who are afraid to state their voting intentions. It also bothers me that so many employees of these polling firms openly express their disdain for Faith. Why should anyone share their voting intentions under such conditions?

    For what it’s worth I believe she can win. That’s simply a feeling, and I have no scientific data to back it. Nonetheless, it seems to me that a marginal “extremist” would not be getting support from Torontonians who are thoroughly post-national, i.e., “pozzed.” Yet she is gaining support even in that demographic.

    Is there just one of these people that gets coverage and publicity that does not whore for Israel?

    If you must use that kind of terminology you can say she’s a “whore” for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands. One reason is their lower fertility rate. A bigger reason, however, is the attitude of their Muslim neighbors—not all of them, or even a majority, but a large minority. About a third of all Muslims want to see Christians disappear in the near future. I’ve talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians, and they all say the same thing: the government cannot easily prosecute people who terrorize Christians because the average Muslim will not denounce them — partly out of fear, and partly out of a perverse sense of solidarity.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Yevardian
  83. @Peter Frost

    I have no idea who Faith Goldy is (have read the name somewhere…but don’t know anything about her), so no, it isn’t something known among European right-wingers (or at least German ones, but I think the same applies at least for the rest of continental Europe).
    Canada only figures as a supposed example of how to do immigration correctly…even many AfD politicians cite it as a positive example for a skills-based immigration system. It’s not well known that Anglo-Canadians (or white Canadians in general) are on track for minority status within a few decades, and that there are huge issues with Canadian multiculturalism, free speech restrictions etc. Unfortunately many German right-wingers at least are still quite naive about this.

  84. Beckow says:
    @notanon

    … they know the end result will be very bad

    Do they? My interpretation is that they are enchanted by the end result and don’t see it at all as bad. They think that more people overall will benefit (the 5 billion Third Worlders), they unconsciously dislike their own kind and want them to be taken down a notch, and they believe the white Euro masses deserve it. It is a fantasy, as most ideologies, but they probably – with a few exceptions – don’t think of what they are doing as evil.

    They also think it is inevitable. I have had a few discussions with some of them about it, and when all else fails, they simply claim that ‘it is happening anyway, there is no alternative‘. Also very similar to most ideological early stage delusions. Early Christians were all about Jesus coming ‘very soon‘. And the hapless commies used to get votes around countryside by promising to share cattle, and sometimes even wifes. The early belief in inevitability is crucial to most ideologies – just listen to an average crazy NGO-maniac today, it is all about ‘progress‘ and ‘we are on the right side of history‘.

    It is hard to tell what Merkel actually believes, she could just be an opportunist (she famously hid in a sauna when the Berlin Wall was coming down.) We cannot see anyone’s real motivations, so I tend to discard it.

    • Replies: @notanon
  85. @JRB

    It’s true that Spahn is well-connected with the Americans, he’s on very friendly terms with Trump’s homo ambassador Grennell (who knows what they’re doing when they’re meeting). And yes, he’s been cited as a possible successor to Merkel. But Laschet has more of a home base than Spahn, NRW is the most populous German state after all. Another possible successor is Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, the general secretary of the CDU, and a kind of catholic Merkel clone with children. It’s hard to tell, I can’t pretend to understand what goes on in the mind of CDU members.

  86. @Dmitry

    Swiss aren’t just Germans with a weird dialect, they’re clearly their own nation with a different mentality, much more so than Austrians.
    And many of them resent the influx of Germans coming to Switzerland…Germans aren’t popular there. Even years ago (in 2011), I heard stories about Germans in Switzerland who found letters of the sort “Next time we’ll get you” in their mail.

    • Replies: @Mikel
  87. Talha says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    And of course…looked up her profile on Wikipedia – looks like she is almost-thirty and unmarried and no kids.

    Of course, actually becoming the Mayor of Toronto will likely make her too busy to become a mother and thus facilitate the likelihood of her becoming a genetic dead-end…(sigh) lead by example, I guess.

    Peace.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  88. @Beckow

    An ideological dream is not a plan. It would be like saying that Christians have a plan, ‘die and go to heaven‘, or communist had a plan, ‘abolish money‘.

    Or that Beckow has a plan: “engage in petty, anti-Christian ankle-biting.” ;)

    Those are emotional defensive outbursts against reality, not plans.

    Pot, kettle, etc, etc.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  89. @Beckow

    Why can’t Germans move on and live with today’s realities?

    I don’t really understand it either. It clearly wasn’t an inevitable consequence of WW2, East Germany proves that. Probably too much wealth and the demented political culture that evolved in the federal republic, with the Basic law and its suicidal parts about the right to asylum being treated as if it were part of the Ten commandments. But it’s not like Germany is totally unique, you have much the same story in many other Western countries as well.

  90. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    I am told, problem of living in America, is more just boring social life for young people, and a very different culture.

    Job situation is good, and it’s not dangerous in his area.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @AaronB
  91. @Talha

    They could probably accomplish this faster by doubling-down on the hyper-homo-mania.

    Islamophilia is much more heavily promoted in Germany than any homo stuff.

    • Replies: @Talha
  92. notanon says:
    @Beckow

    My interpretation is that they are enchanted by the end result and don’t see it at all as bad.

    i agree there are utopian globalists. i’m talking about the people in the shadows who fund globalist politicians and own the media.

    do you think those people are utopians?

    • Replies: @Beckow
  93. The column ended bizarrely. Not helpful given that I otherwise wanted to forward it to some folks, as I often do with AK material. Joking or ironic or whatever, needlessly bringing in mention of genociding migrants, using that word, was unnecessary.

  94. Talha says:
    @Peter Frost

    she’s a “whore” for Middle Eastern Christians, who are in danger of extinction in their own homelands

    Yeah – and there’s a guy named Bush walking around here that she can demand gets sent to the Hague for kick-starting that nonsense if she really means it. Once I see that, I’ll take these people seriously. But no – they wave flags for Israel, support the stupid policies Israel supports:

    And then complain when what everyone, who seriously knew anything about the region, said would happen…actually happens. Blair, Bush and anybody else who wen cowboy of Iraq should be prosecuted with extreme prejudice for what they did. Christians should be pissing on their graves.

    One reason is their lower fertility rate.

    Not our problem – have kids, they’re fun.

    I’ve talked with a number of Middle Eastern Christians

    Which country are you talking about and then we can discuss rationally and with specifics.

    There are countries where Muslim security forces are dying in order to keep extremists from attacking Christians.

    https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Four-security-personnel-killed-in-Jordan-shoot-out-564706

    There are Muslim majority countries where a Christian judge can punish (and in a very imaginative way) Muslims that insult Christian sensibilities (which by the way is fully in line with classical Islamic law – you can look up what Imam Ibn Abidin [ra] wrote about it in his massive legal compendium ‘Radd ul-Muhtar’):

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/muslim-boys-virgin-mary-quran-punishment-jesus-lebanon-christianity-respect-lebanon-tripoli-saad-a8208031.html

    And I can guarantee you – pound for pound of flesh, pint for pint of blood – these extremists have killed more Muslims than any other people in the region.

    And all of this – all of it – was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq (I’m not even talking about Libya or Syria). Before that, everyone had a much better control of our extremists and there was less extremism in the first place.

    Peace.

    • Agree: for-the-record
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @iffen
  95. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    Gonna have to take your word on this G_R since I don’t live in Germany…

    Peace.

  96. @Dmitry

    It’s all fun and games until you get doxxed for not being in line with the ever-shifting zeistgeist of wokeness.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  97. @neutral

    This impressive photograph might have some measurable effect on Steve Sailer’s innermost self, mightn’t it?

  98. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    Boring isn’t quite the right word. More like soulless, empty, a life based on hustling and pointlessly extending the reach of technology. People are quite pleasant, especially if you are on vacation, but once you get to know them they are angry inside and have the dull seriousness of the uncultured barbarian. Sophisticated cultures understand life is about refined aesthetic and spiritual enjoyment.

    Immigrants from culturally rich countries tend to complain about how boring and empty life is in America – its actually extremely common.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  99. Beckow says:
    @Buster Keaton’s Stunt Double

    I am not anti-Christian, it is my tradition too. But Christianity is a philosophy, not a plan for society. In the vulgar version of Christianity, it is all about love, forgiveness and waiting for salvation in after-life. That is unworkable for most societies, pure ideology that does more harm than good.

    I would also say that arguments of type: ‘you are stupid’, ‘no, you are‘, are not very productive. I outgrew it around my second year in kindergarden.

  100. Beckow says:
    @notanon

    …the people in the shadows who fund globalist politicians and own the media. Do you think those people are utopians?

    I think most of them are ideologues. In other words, they believe in either the goodness of it all (for mankind as a whole), or in its inevitability. A few might be hypocritical, some are skeptics, but generally the globalist onslaught couldn’t go on without the elites being run by the true believers.

    And I am talking about the people ‘in the shadows‘, not the known names. They believe this stuff.

    • Replies: @notanon
  101. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Another guy…possibly the main guy…

    That is a great name for the film, “Vice”…

    vice:

    -immoral or wicked behavior.
    -an immoral or wicked personal characteristic.

    synonyms: immorality, wrongdoing, wickedness, badness, evil, iniquity, villainy, corruption, misconduct, misdeeds;

    God will take to task the extremists on both sides of the equation…

    “Beware the supplication of the oppressed – even if he is an unbeliever! For there is no barrier between it and Allah.” – reported in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad (ra)

  102. utu says:
    @Mitleser

    Perhaps. But I think the key is the definition of “migrant background.” It clearly can’t be as I shown somebody whose one of parents was born abroad. It must be broader, multigenerational. Something akin to Nuremberg laws.

    Perhaps our Nazi_reader could explain.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  103. @utu

    Official definition by the Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge:

    https://www.bamf.de/DE/Service/Left/Glossary/_function/glossar.html?lv3=3198544

    “Eine Person hat dann einen Migrationshintergrund, wenn sie selbst oder mindestens ein Elternteil nicht mit deutscher Staatsangehörigkeit geboren ist.”

    Die Definition umfasst im Einzelnen folgende Personen:
    1. zugewanderte und nicht zugewanderte Ausländer;
    2. zugewanderte und nicht zugewanderte Eingebürgerte;
    3. (Spät-)Aussiedler;
    4. mit deutscher Staatsangehörigkeit geborene Nachkommen der drei zuvor genannten Gruppen.

    “A person has a migrant background if he or at least one of his parents hasn’t been born with German citizenship.
    The definition comprehends the following groups:
    1. resident foreigners, both those who have immigrated themselves and those who haven’t immigrated (e.g. children of foreigners born in Germany who for some reason haven’t acquired German citizenship – this was more common before the reform of citizenship laws in the late 1990s).
    2. people who have been naturalized, both those who have immigrated themselves and those who haven’t immigrated (e.g. Turks born in Germany who acquired German citizenship as adults).
    3. ethnic Germans from eastern Europe, former Soviet Union.
    4. descendants of the first three groups with German citizenship.”

    That definition seems to be from 2017.
    They also mention that the census of 2011 used a somewhat different definition and defined “migrant background” as applying to every foreigner or German who has immigrated to the federal republic since 1955 and everybody who has at least one parent who has immigrated since 1955.

    Nazi_reader…lol. Since you didn’t put it in quotes like in the previous thread, I guess that means you consider me a cartoon character.

    • Replies: @utu
  104. iffen says:
    @Talha

    was kicked into hyper-drive by the invasion of Iraq

    If it makes you feel better go ahead and believe this. I agree that it was a mistake, but you people have been killing each other for centuries before we came on the scene. Even in the modern era Muslims seem to do okay with wars without our help. I suppose the Iran/Iraq war was kick started by us? The invasion of Kuwait? I suppose you blame the violence at partition on us. Let’s make it simpler. What do you not blame on us?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Talha
  105. @iffen

    I suppose he was referring specifically to anti-Christian persecution, and it’s indeed true that one of the consequences of the Iraq war was the destruction (through expulsion/emigration) of much of Iraq’s Christian community (also of other minority groups like Mandaeans).
    US policy also has a curious habit of aiding and empowering the very worst actors and groups in the Islamic world…in Syria the US has been on the side of jihadis.
    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own. Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @for-the-record
  106. Talha says:
    @iffen

    I agree that it was a mistake, but you people have been killing each other for centuries before we came on the scene.

    OK – as have everyone else. Are you going to seriously claim the situation in the Middle East before and after the invasion of Iraq was the same? Do you think that Daesh would have had an inkling of a chance to form with Saddam and his security apparatus in power?

    I suppose the Iran/Iraq war was kick started by us? The invasion of Kuwait?

    Did I blame those on people like Bush and Blair? Did I blame the war of East-West Pakistan on them? Did I blame the border war of Chad and Libya on them? Did I blame the Safavid-Ottoman border wars on them? I was quite specific in exactly where I laid the blame and for what – so let’s stick to the points I was making.

    I didn’t even include Afghanistan because, assuming that that official narrative of 9/11 was correct, at least that had a vestige of legitimacy (though it could have been better handled). Let’s get back to my original point; what I have not seen – from people like Faith Goldy and her ilk is any mention of why this mess started in the first place and who was responsible. All they do is use the current mess – that Muslims in that region now have to clean up* – in order to score even more talking points for Israel.

    Peace.

    *Yeah – we’re a little pissed off at how disingenuous the whole position they take is:
    “The mosque was packed with hundreds of worshippers for Friday prayers in Egypt’s North Sinai when gunmen in military-style uniforms and masks appeared in a doorway and at windows. The ease with which they mounted an attack – killing more than 300 people in the worst bloodshed of its kind in Egypt’s modern history – highlighted the threat militant groups pose in the most populous Arab country. After four years of battling Islamic State in the Sinai, where the group has killed hundreds of soldiers and police, authorities still face an enemy with growing ambitions in Egypt, despite its defeats in Iraq, Syria and Libya.”

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-egypt-security-mosque/islamic-state-raises-stakes-with-egypt-mosque-attack-idUSKBN1DQ0K0

    • Replies: @iffen
  107. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own.

    Never said Muslims aren’t responsible – I specifically stated that God will take to task the extremists for what they have done. We are absolutely responsible for dealing with the extremists in our midst.

    Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.

    We certainly have extremists in the Muslim world, no doubt about this. But, unfortunately, these kinds of people are able to operate freely when a country’s entire military and police force has been dismantled and dismissed.

    You can see what happened between Croats and Serbs (without any reference to Muslims) in the aftermath of Yugoslavia falling apart to understand what happens when a state apparatus comes tumbling down that kept things in order.

    And when Muslims are actually dying by the hundreds to contain the situation and actually safeguard non-Muslims – do they or Islam get credit?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Dmitry
  108. notanon says:
    @Beckow

    fair enough – i think there are a lot of true believers involved at the managerial level but imo the banking mafia are running the show from behind the scenes and they are consciously genocidal (in the sense of wanting to destroy all high IQ populations) but that’s not something i can prove.

  109. iffen says:
    @Talha

    We didn’t come up with Salafism, Wahhabism or cause the Shia/Sunni split. AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    This is one who is willing to lay his white man’s burden down and leave ALL of you to your own devices.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @for-the-record
  110. Talha says:
    @iffen

    We didn’t come up with Salafism, Wahhabism or cause the Shia/Sunni split.

    Didn’t blame them for that either – Saddam’s jails had plenty of Salafi-Wahhabi extremists in them (the ones he didn’t out and out execute anyway).

    AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    Correct – we are only responsible for protecting them and letting them live their lives. Again, if they don’t have kids, not our problem. Also, we have historically had financial incentives to help the fence-sitters make a decision about joining the Ummah. Perpetuating some sort of equilibrium affirmative-action-type percentage is not our responsibility.

    I’m 100% open to both letting all the Christians that have been pushed out come back and even having Muslim countries help them financially to settle back in – in fact, I think places like Saudi and some of the other Gulf monarchies that have been meddling owe them that.

    This is one who is willing to lay his white man’s burden down and leave ALL of you to your own devices.

    Beautiful, that’s all someone like myself asks for – and why I marched against the wars multiple times even though I was no fan of Saddam. US foreign policy in the region seems to have the anti-Midas touch; everything turns to crap.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  111. @Talha

    But, unfortunately, these kinds of people are able to operate freely when a country’s entire military and police force has been dismantled and dismissed.

    iirc many of ISIS’ leading members had belonged to Saddam Hussein’s security forces, so the causal nexus isn’t quite that simple.
    I agree though that US foreign policy in the Mideast has been disastrous.

    You can see what happened between Croats and Serbs (without any reference to Muslims) in the aftermath of Yugoslavia falling apart to understand what happens when a state apparatus comes tumbling down that kept things in order.

    That’s a misreading of the Yugoslav situation, both Croats and Serbs had state structures of their own.
    I’d also say that the situation isn’t comparable to what’s happening in much of the Islamic world…Croats and Serbs were evenly matched, it was a fight about territory, with neither side being just 100% victim or aggressor…both sides had bitter memories of being victimized by the other (Croats having been dominated by the Serbs in inter-war Yugoslavia and also to some extent after 1945, the massacres committed by the Ustasha during WW2, and then the horrendous killings by Tito’s forces in 1945).
    What’s so striking about the persecution of Christians, Mandaeans, Yazidis and other minorities in Iraq is that the targets belong to largely powerless communities which haven’t been able to do any violence to Muslims for centuries. It’s a very one-sided process.

    And when Muslims are actually dying by the hundreds to contain the situation and actually safeguard non-Muslims – do they or Islam get credit?

    Peshmerga got a lot of positive press in Western media, so the answer is yes.

  112. Dmitry says:
    @Talha

    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians? And your response to blame on white people’s actions.

    Also the Israel stuff is quite funny. 6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?

    I know we are on Unz website, where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion. But Pakistan has a population of 213 million people, and is thousands of kilometers away from Israel.

    • Replies: @Talha
  113. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    It’s difficult to judge another people’s culture. Only an American can probably understand or appreciate the American culture and personality.

    But sufficient to say, American culture is a very different one. Culture shock will be a lot larger if you go to America, than if you go to West Europe.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  114. @Dmitry

    Culture shock will be a lot larger if you go to America, than if you go to West Europe.

    For a Russian? That’s interesting, could you elaborate?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Yevardian
  115. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If you are visitor in a foreign country, you should not say anything publicly about politics anyway.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  116. Mikel says:

    All this talk of cucky Germans having become a country of foreigner lovers is a big myth, in my personal experience.

    In my late teens I spent a whole winter learning German with a native family in a small town of Rheinland-Pfalz, West Germany. I was the only foreigner in town, with the exception of a Dutchman. With a lot of effort I did manage to get a good grasp of the language but it wasn’t easy. Most locals were as unwelcoming as it gets. They would speak their Frankish dialect all the time but frown at my using their colloquialisms, if I ever allowed myself to.

    We once went shopping to a bigger town nearby and I remember making some casual comment at the simple sight of some Turks in the central square. My companions would inform me that in the weekends “it got worse”. I also remember their remarks when we visited a family member at a hospital and passed through the maternity section where most newborn babies seemed to be Turkish, “how ugly, all that black hair…”.

    One good thing about that long winter is that I got to read an original copy of Mein Kampf, written in Gothic characters. This family had managed to hide it away from the American occupation forces and it was now passed from generation to generation. This was a family “open” enough to want to host foreign students.

    Later on I worked in multilingual support centers across Europe for different IT companies and it was common knowledge among everybody that German/Austrian customers were the most difficult to deal with. Scandinavians, Dutch, Brits and Southern Europeans were much more easy going. The French were hot and cold. Eventually, an English workmate shared with me the big secret of how to deal with German customers. Pretend that you don’t understand their language and force them to speak in English. It worked wonders. They would slow down and go on the defensive. Problems that appeared insurmountable suddenly became easy to manage.

    I’ve met some nice Germans -outside of Germany- but, as Gunther Grass (if memory serves) warned, don’t ever trust them too much. They continue to be mightily proud of themselves and I don’t believe that whatever forces set them in motion a few generations ago to conquer and enslave their neighbors are totally vanished.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  117. Talha says:
    @Dmitry

    Muslims persecuting other religions, within their own race such as Pakistani Christians?

    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix. I am specifically talking about the Middle East and specifically the parts affected by growth of the Daesh franchise.

    6 million Jews in Israel are somehow responsible for Muslims (who are 1.8 billion people) persecuting other religious minorities in their own societies?

    That’s not what I stated either. The leadership of Israel was absolutely a part and parcel of selling the war on Iraq – this is without doubt and a matter of public record. The dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are seeing in the Middle East right now. It would help tremendously if the Israeli leadership didn’t keep cheer leading for the US to fight even more wars in the region* – next target being Iran.

    where the Jewish world conspiracy is a national religion.

    I’m n0t in that box and never have been and you know it.

    With all due respect – please don’t push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Peace.

    *”However, recent developments show that Syrian President Assad is a thousand times more dangerous than ISIS…There is concern by some in Israel’s leadership that the U.S. administration may consider the attack on the chemical weapon installations in Syria as the farewell act of U.S. military involvement in Syria. This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory.”

    http://jcpa.org/assad-is-more-dangerous-than-isis/

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @iffen
    , @Dmitry
  118. iffen says:
    @Talha

    I’m 100% open to both letting all the Christians that have been pushed out come back

    Do you want your Hindus back? Since you are here that is a least one open spot in Pakistan.

    • Replies: @Talha
  119. iffen says:
    @Talha

    (Sigh) Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

    When it suits your purposes, otherwise it is here a Ummah, there a Ummah, hell, Ummah in Yuma.

    • Replies: @Talha
  120. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    Russia is just a European country, even if there are a couple of areas where things can be very different like politics (although politics is actually quite unique in most European countries). I didn’t feel much culture shock in Europe. (And there, mainly with some Latin things in Spain and France).

    I’m not an expert on America at all. But needless to say it is quite different there, including (what I’m told from people who live there) the way people are socializing.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  121. iffen says:
    @Talha

    With all due respect – please don’t push that Zionist crap, people here are more intelligent than that.

    Speak for yourself. :)

    This would be bad for Israel, which from now on will need to deal on its own with the Iranian threats emanating from Syrian territory.”

    Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps our presence in the ME restrains Israel? If we leave you might run out of virgins.

    • Replies: @Talha
  122. @Dmitry

    Russia is just a European country

    But you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years because of communism, I would have expected some lingering effect of that (which certainly exists in relations between West and East Germany which were only divided for 40 years).
    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
    Thanks for your answer.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @Dmitry
  123. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Since my family are Muhajirs from Uttar Pradesh, we already vacated many spots for arriving Hindus in India. The population transfers went both ways. But yes, any Hindu or Sikh that was pushed off of their lawful property illegally and can prove it, should have the right of return to Pakistan proper.

    Basically seconding this guy:
    “Hindus can return to Pakistan, says first Pakistani Hindu to win NA elections“

    https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/hindus-can-return-to-pakistan-says-first-pakistani-hindu-to-win-na-elections/1272637/

    Peace.

  124. @German_reader

    But it’s pretty lame to pretend that everything is the fault of the US or other Western powers and that Muslims have no agency of their own. Their often fairly vicious attitudes towards powerless minorities are their own responsibility and a consequence of their religious beliefs.

    The Christian communities in the Middle East, notably in Iraq and Syria, survived for 2,000 years, and were under no real danger from either Saddam Hussein or the Assads (the latter was in fact certainly their protector). What changed? Sure, in wartime situations there will be Muslim groups that terrorise Christians, but these situations could never have arisen without US-led or inspired intervention.

    • Agree: utu, YetAnotherAnon
  125. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Sorry, it was a joke that only existed in my mind. But you got it.

    Thanks for explanation. This I think agrees with the categories form this table:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/TablesMigrationStatusSex.html

    Population in private households with migrant background in the narrow sense was 23.5% in 2017. These are the subcategories:

    (1) Germans with migration experience of their own – 6.4% (?naturalized migrants including ethnic Germans from, say, Russia?)

    (2) Germans without migration experience of their own – 5.64%. (?2nd and higher generation of migrants who naturalized?)
    (3) Foreigners with migration experience of their own – 8.71%. (?foreigners residents?)
    (4) Foreigners without migration experience of their own -1.81%. (?children born in Germany of foreign residents?)

    The category (2) seems to me the most difficult comprehend. Do they keep track of your parent or grandparent status?

    Now this table gives the number of children with and w/o migrant background for 2017.

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusAge.html

    For under 5 years of age it is 60.9% for w/o and 39.1% ‘children with migrant background’.

    Assuming that ‘children with migrant background’ are children from ‘households with migrant background in the narrow sense’ then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    Obviously it would be hard to to get ethnic data but it would be important to know how many of 23.5% households are actually Europeans: ethnic Germans, ethnic Slavs, ethnic Romanian, Hungarian, Scandinavians, Spaniards, Italians. If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

  126. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps our presence in the ME restrains Israel?

    No – it is fairly obvious that we smash up countries Israel could not. See the war in Lebanon as an example; the power disparity has changed.

    Peace.

  127. Talha says:
    @iffen

    But I didn’t blame the extremism in Pakistan on the invasion of Iraq. So I don’t understand why it is relevant to the current plight of Middle East Christians nor is there anything close to a flight of Christians out of Pakistan – not to mention they aren’t some ancient community from a pre-Islamic past.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Beckow
  128. @iffen

    AFAIK Christians have been dwindling since the Muslims showed up, sometimes slowly, sometimes faster.

    1867: Total population of Iraq 1.3 million (Christians ?, unlikely more than 200,000)

    Christian population Iraq:

    2003 1.5 million
    2018 (est.) 250,000

    So when did Christians in Iraq start “dwindling”?

    • Replies: @iffen
  129. Dmitry says:
    @Talha

    Please read exactly what I said…I stated nothign about Pakistan – YOU are bringing it into the mix.

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.

    Pakistan’s government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often, if you believe the websites like Al Jazeera.

    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion (yet America allows to you, rightfully, a freedom to choose a different religion from the majority, or no religion).

    This is a relevant issue in this context, especially if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/09/pakistan-sentences-christian-man-death-blasphemy-170916091856674.html

    dismantling of Iraq is specifically the event that set the dominoes in motion for what we are

    Humans are not dominoes. At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.

    I’m not fan or any war in Middle East which is brought from outsiders, especially not American wars – which have included nuclear bombing Japan, killing millions of Vietnamese with chemical weapons, etc.

    America’s Iraq invasion, was based on a plan in which they estimated the country and people were more “reasonable” and “stable” than they are, and would emerge as some harmonious democracy immediately after.

    Saddam was brutal, because this was kind of government that could prevent the country from disintegrating. America removed Saddam, contributed something to further brutalization in Iraq. But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.

    It’s not America making Iraqis or Islamists build bombs, hide them in civilians markets, and murder their countrymen, over and over for years, (until news does not even report anymore).

  130. iffen says:

    Lebanon as an example; the power disparity has changed.

    Lebanon was created to give the Christians in Lebanon a chance to survive, but the country was destroyed by people from another religious group. I can’t quite think of the name of that religious group, it’s right on the edge of my brain, I just can’t …

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @republic
  131. Talha says:
    @iffen

    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war? The word you are looking for is “Jews”…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  132. @utu

    If we knew it the numbers would not be as terrifying as they seem to be.

    A few years ago I might have agreed (though maybe I was naive back then), but given the situation since 2014/15 I find such optimism misplaced.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  133. iffen says:
    @Talha

    I don’t know why you have such a hard-on for Israel. What did Israel ever do to Pakistan or India? Oh wait, you don’t believe in the concept of nation states, so that couldn’t be it. You’re not worried about Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, etc., etc., etc. You are worried about Muslims, so don’t try to pick and choose and then point a finger at people who do the same.

    • Replies: @Talha
  134. notanon says:
    @utu

    Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1.

    the street i grew up in had multiple immigrant families with 8+ kids – my best friend at the time was one of twelve.

    (this is another thing that causes white flight – if you get into a fight you and your brothers/cousins are almost always going to be massively outnumbered by the other kid’s brothers and cousins)

    i think it may be a sense of threat from going from a place where they’re a majority to where they’re a minority and one of the reasons immigrant birth rates often drop a lot in the 2nd generation is by then they tend to separate out into different ethnic enclaves where their group is the majority.

    • Replies: @utu
  135. @Talha

    You mean the Israelis who invaded and occupied it and kicked off a civil war?

    Umm, didn’t the civil war start in 1975, with the Israeli invasion coming only in 1982?
    Anyway, disturbing that this thread is now about the Mideast, I guess I’ll have to take this as another sign that Germans are exiting the stage of history. Oh well, I guess at least we’ll always be remembered for the Nazis.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @utu
    , @Talha
  136. Mikel says:
    @German_reader

    I used to have a Swiss girlfriend and spent two months in Switzerland. I’ve heard them talk of how boastful Germans are, always speaking of how things are done “bei uns” and such. With them Swiss not being exactly ashamed of their own accomplishments, you get all the right ingredients for some amount of dislike (which is usually bigger if the rivals are also neighbors).

    • Replies: @German_reader
  137. Mitleser says:
    @utu

    Nationalities of foreigners in the FRG: https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_ForeignPopulation/Gender.html

    Top Five: Turks, Poles, Syrians, Italians and Romanians

    Afghans outnumber Hungarians.

    • Replies: @utu
  138. iffen says:
    @for-the-record

    You have an Iraqi census from 1867. That is astonishing. I give up.

  139. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    It’s not my fault GR. I have been trying to stay OT. It’s the fault of all these Jew-haters. They won’t let me leave.

  140. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Displaced Palestinians to Lebanon was a chief factor.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  141. Mitleser says:
    @utu

    More terrifying numbers

    “Germany is continuously experiencing high influx of irregular migrants, with 460 people applying for asylum every day for the first time,” writes the EU Commission. The main countries of origin are Syria, Iraq, Nigeria, Afghanistan, Turkey and Iran.

    https://archive.is/wCoII#selection-3757.200-3757.472

    And they admit that they underestimate illegal immigration and the real number is higher.

  142. @Mikel

    Well yes, I get that Germans can be annoying and arrogant. For smaller countries like Switzerland or Denmark Germany is certainly unpleasant in many ways as a neighbor.
    But don’t worry, it will merely take another 30 or 40 years, then you’ll be rid of us :-)

  143. iffen says:
    @Dmitry

    killing millions of Vietnamese with chemical weapons, etc.

    BS. Steaming pile.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  144. @utu

    I know, and I’m not trying to excuse Israel’s responsibility. But my impression is that many Lebanese feel justified resentment against the role Palestinians have played in their country.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @utu
  145. Dmitry says:
    @iffen

    Injuring millions at best. Not a good policy.

    She is one of three million Vietnamese affected by the dioxin in Agent Orange – a poison that has caused untold cancers and an estimated 150,000 birth defects – which continue down the generations to this day…

    As a result, the Vietnam Red Cross estimates that three million Vietnamese were left suffering from spina bifida, Parkinson’s and heart diseases as a result.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/the-terrible-legacy-of-agent-orange-8034869.html

    • Replies: @iffen
  146. utu says:
    @notanon

    By looking here:

    https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_ForeignPopulation/Gender.html

    we can estimate that about 50% of foreigners in Germany are Europeans who are non Muslims and non Gypsy. The other 50% is responsible for the high breeding rate.

  147. Yevardian says:
    @Boswald Bollocksworth

    Yes, Russians still love Germany for some inexplicable reason, it’s definitely not reciprocated in the slightest.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Mitleser
  148. Yevardian says:
    @Peter Frost

    Well Toronto did elect Rob Ford, multiple times, so anything could happen.

    • LOL: iffen
  149. iffen says:
    @Dmitry

    Vietnamese were left suffering from spina bifida, Parkinson’s and heart diseases as a result.

    My bad.

    I didn’t know that we introduced spina bifida, Parkinson’s and heart disease into Vietnam.

    I thought we only introduced prostitution, consumerism and greed.

  150. iffen says:
    @Yevardian

    Yes, Russians still love Germany for some inexplicable reason

    Well, the Germans did try to liberate the Russians from the Bolsheviks, there’s that.

  151. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    not less than a permanent emigration to any other country

    Hard to say because they can’t know it form their own experience. Then they were eligible for citizenship on arrival that should count as a plus. But it is possible that they encountered negative reaction just like some Russian Jews in Israel whose ethnicity is questioned and their opportunism is insinuated.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  152. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    Israel with population of 800,000 people in 1948, absorbed 850,000 Arab Jews running away from Arab countries during the 1950s. Now those are Israelis (Israelis today are mostly descended Arab Jews which were absorbed in 1950s – descendants of Israelis were speaking Arabic, look like Arabs, and only non-Arab by their religion).

    In 1948, 700,000 Palestinians running away or expelled from Israel-Arab war, as refugees, are not absorbed by Arab countries.

    Palestinians in Lebanon don’t have citizenship.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians_in_Lebanon

    (Yet Palestinians in Israel, have Israeli citizenship). I never understand how to approach this issue, whether reading Wikipedia, or other website, and everytime find something new which is more crazy than you read before.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  153. Beckow says:
    @Talha

    I am not an expert on the Middle East, so I usually refrain from commenting, but you make a valid point: 2003 Bush-Blair attack on Iraq is the root cause. And it has remained largely unexamined and without any consequences for the geniuses in Washington and London who started it.

    It is very easy to point to other other issues in the ME, etc… But it is a fact that in 2003 US-UK without a provocation attacked and brutally destroyed Iraq, then proceeded to Libya and Syria, in each case destroying societies that were by no means perfect – or even in any sense particularly good – and caused incredible suffering. They were not there to win a war, West is incapable of winning in a traditional sense because they don’t have any realistic war or post-war plans. They went there to cause a huge suffering – and that’s what they did. With no consequences for the organisers. That is something that undermines any talk of democracy and values. How do you not hold people accountable? What kind of a democracy has no accountability?

    • Agree: Talha, RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @iffen
  154. Yevardian says:
    @German_reader

    Something I could never get used to was being expected to smile and make small talk in every damn social interaction, no matter how trivial.

    They continue to be mightily proud of themselves and I don’t believe that whatever forces set them in motion a few generations ago to conquer and enslave their neighbors are totally vanished.

    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe, with the partial exception of Scandinavia.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  155. utu says:
    @German_reader

    I’m still intending to respond to you on the other thread (about Czechs, Germans and Germans pretending to be ‘Nazis’, and Germans pretending that ‘Nazis’ were Nazis).

  156. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    descendants of Israelis were speaking Arabic, look like Arabs, and only non-Arab by their religion

    Oops, I mean the word “ancestors”.

  157. Talha says:
    @German_reader

    I stand corrected, they didn’t directly start the festivities, they simply exacerbated the situation.

    Peace.

  158. Mitleser says:
    @Yevardian

    Not as much as they used to.

    Uwe Erich Niemeier, a German who lives in Kaliningrad noted that the treatment of Germans and German companies in Kaliningrad has changed in the last decade.

    http://kaliningrad-domizil.ru/portal/information/-mit-deutschem-akzent-/ein-moment-deutscher-nachdenklichkeit/

  159. iffen says:
    @Beckow

    They were not there to win a war

    The neo-liberals have been at this democracy building for a while. Many people from these countries want what we have, Talha, for instance, that’s why he is here. When things go wrong they want to blame us. If you want to dance you have to pay the piper.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  160. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    it is possible that they encountered negative reaction just like some Russian Jews in Israel

    It’s analogous. They discuss the similar problems on the same websites. People also try same thing of getting the passport, without actually going to live permanently in the country.

    General internet consensus for emigration, is that you should try to go to Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Then Germany, is regarded in a lower level, and Israel slightly below Germany (depending on profession though).

    • Replies: @utu
  161. Talha says:
    @iffen

    You are worried about Muslims, so don’t try to pick and choose and then point a finger at people who do the same.

    I will get to Dmitry’s points in a bit. I simply don’t see what Pakistan has to do with the flight of Middle East Christians which is what Mr. Frost mentioned and what I responded to. I’ll dip into the situation in Pakistan in some detail, if you want to bring in Boko Haram into the picture we can discuss that too, but it still has nothing to do with the Middle East Christian flight any more than the invasion of Panama has anything to do with Iraq crashing even though it was another military intervention by the US.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  162. Beckow says:
    @Mitleser

    …many Germans want to get rid off Germany in favor of EUrope

    I also want a lot of things, but grown-ups usually learns how to live with what is possible. It is not possible to have a ‘EU identity‘, it would require a demographic upheaval, language consolidation and cultural changes that are simply not doable. So the ‘many Germans‘ who say that’s what they want are living in a fantasy. Or they are scared and so they are lying.

    The Habeck guy is really something, ‘there is no people‘, right. He must not get out much, or is possibly mentally ill.

  163. Mitleser says:

    Interesting fact: Merkel’s parlamentarian faction, the reason she is the current German leader has the smallest share of German parlamentarians with migration background in the German parliament, only 2,9%, less than in 2013-2017.

    https://infogram.com/bundestagsabgeordnete-mit-migrationshintergrund-1ggk269j65gk2n0

    Why do these people support her and her open borders policy?

    • Replies: @notanon
  164. iffen says:
    @Talha

    You were the one that brought Israel and all the Muslims in the world into the thread. Before that we were only concerned with the Muslims in Germany.

    • Replies: @Talha
  165. Beckow says:
    @iffen

    …neo-liberals have been at this democracy building for a while

    When you go off to fight a war, you presumably have a better plan then ‘we will organize an election for the natives once we win’. Now, many of the liberals are insane, so it is possible.

    But if you look at what actually happened – and ignore the endless verbiage that is used to hide what is happening – it is rather simple: US-UK woke up one day and decided to kill a lot of people in Iraq in the most gruesome way they could. So they did, and not much else was accomplished. Next they decided to do the same in Libya and Syria (a bit more hands-off this time for the sake of appearance). Again not much was accomplished other than inflicting a lot of suffering.

    People who confuse causing a lot of hurt with winning are usually considered irrational psychopaths. It is like a little kid breaking someone’s toys (or head) for no other reason than that he can. There is no benefit, it looks pretty bad, but he caused someone a lot of pain. And these are the geniuses now in charge in the West who are also totally unaccountable. Almost makes one miss the previous bunch that had some rational goals, maybe evil goals, but they made sense. Obsessing about ‘purple fingers‘ electoral process among foreign peoples doesn’t makes any sense. Or pretending to care about it.

    • Replies: @iffen
  166. @Bukephalos

    “the welfare state which will get unsustainable”

    I’m not so sure about that. The plan is to give all citizens a monthly cash stipend. No problem, the Fed will just create it. The poor will spend all their’s and that’s good, a consistent reliable demand makes for easy planning. Farmer’s will continue to receive their subsidies to grow food. So that evens out.

    Now on to housing. Obviously, the federal government will have to provide subsidies to developers and building contractors to put that up as well. What’s left? Clothes and cheap electronics. The Asians slaves will grind away at that and their governments don’t mind recycling the dollars back into Treasury Bonds. So that leaves transportation. A car. hmmmm. Somehow the government will have to intervene and make cheap used autos available to the working and non working poor. Of course, maintenance will be paid for by the gov’t. Again, stimulating business. So where’s the problem? As long as the Fed is allowed to create money ex nihilo, it’s a closed system.

    And for the upper classes, the Fed will buy into the stock market when it threatens to stall. Money managers boom time. Everyone’s happy.

  167. iffen says:
    @Beckow

    you presumably have a better plan then ‘we will organize an election for the natives once we win’.

    No. AFAIK that’s pretty much all there is to it.

    Well, they are supposed to integrate themselves into the global economic system.

  168. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Faith Goldy was mentioned and I mentioned she was a Zionist stooge. It could have ended there, but I’m fine with taking it forward if Mr. Karlin is cool with it. Again, I still don’t see what Pakistan has to do with Middle Eastern Christians and their situation. But I’m going to respond to Dmitry so we can take that Pakistan angle further in a more accurate path.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  169. iffen says:
    @Talha

    I still don’t see what Pakistan has to do with Middle Eastern Christians and their situation.

    Incompatibility of Muslims with non-Mulims in a nation state, whether in Canada, Germany, Syria, Lebanon or Pakistan.

    • Replies: @Talha
  170. @Yevardian

    I have experienced this as well, at least with older Germans. They definitely looked down on the rest of Europe

    Well, I don’t know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia, or even racially charged prejudice against other Europeans persists…a certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree…such sentiments are rarely clearly articulated nowadays, but sure, on some level it’s certainly still there. If one really tries hard to look for continuities with Nazi Germany, I guess one can find something.
    There’s also the issue that Germany doesn’t really belong to some wider cultural sphere, like the Romance or Slavic peoples…that increases the sense of being special and isolated.
    What I don’t buy though is this idea that arrogant Germans want to dominate Europe or still have an urge to rule others. Germany was completely defeated in 1945, to an extent people here don’t generally quite understand because they’ve got nothing comparable in their own history. I think deep down Germans know that they were completely at the mercy of others in 1945 and were only saved due to geopolitical issues beyond their control; and that in a sense we’ll be “on probation” forever and have no true friends, that all this talk about reconciliation and friendship may just be superficial. This explains much of German behaviour (the desire to placate others by ostentatious xenophilia and pro-EU cosmopolitanism, mixed with resentment due to the perception that the Nazi card will always be played against us when it suits others) which may seem insincere or contradictory to others.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Anon 2
    , @Mikel
  171. iffen says:

    pro-EU cosmopolitanism

    Germany runs the EU.

    You got Europe and have been chipping away at Russia; first the Baltics, now you are waiting for the Ukraine to fall into your lap.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  172. notanon says:
    @Mitleser

    follow the money – who funds them?

  173. Talha says:
    @iffen

    That’s fine if you want to make that point and expand the subject even further into this discussion. Then it no longer is specific to Middle East Christians, but non-Muslim minorities (in general) in Muslim countries. In short, this question is highly dependent on the kinds of Muslims around and the ones in charge of the country inasmuch as whether the question of Jews being compatible with Germany is also dependent on the kind of Germans around and its leadership.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  174. Mitleser says:
    @iffen

    Elites of the founding nations of the European projects run the EU,
    that means elites of France, Germany, Benelux and Italy.

    • Replies: @iffen
  175. @Dmitry

    Oh, you think its just limited to politics. That’s adorable.

    The personal is political.

  176. @German_reader

    Well, the Chinese have always had a fairly high opinion of Germany. I was looking for some data to support that and found this, though from 2012:

    https://www.worldcrunch.com/culture-society/germans-and-chinese-a-one-sided-love

    A survey conducted by market research firm TNS Infratest – a first of the kind – for the Chinese communications firm Huawei revealed some interesting answers. The Chinese were overall very positive about Germany’s politics, culture, the achievements of German athletes, and above all the country’s economic performance.

  177. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Then Germany

    I believe that the US is still the best in terms of attitudes towards the foreigners but in general the anglo immigrant countries are good ex definitione. Germany I am sure is OK but even before the recent immigration wave you could get bad looks if you were heard speaking foreign language in public which you did not get in the US though now they report of cases like this and blame Trump for it. In the US often people would ask you friendly and open curiosity question ‘where are you from.’ The question where are you form in the US is in general a friendly one. American ask this question each other to pin point the accents and it is not considered rude or nosy. However if you go to some places like small towns in Oklahoma they keep bigger distance which may feel off-putting. But they are more suspicious to each other over there. I think that American outward friendliness which exceeds anything you see in Europe could have arose from the necessity of accommodating strangers and foreigners. The friendliness is there to disarm, to show you do not mean harm.

    But in terms of benefits and opportunities for poor immigrants it is possible that Germany is better than the US or Canada.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Dmitry
  178. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @utu

    Are you named after the movie Utu?

    • Replies: @utu
  179. Talha says:
    @Dmitry

    Pakistan is a country you are the most expert on, since you said you are Pakistani, not Libyan, Egyptian or Iraqi.

    I know more about those countries than you as well. In fact, this weekend I’ll be meeting up with a Libyan brother from the old days at UCLA who is coming to visit the area; I will be asking what he knows coming out of Libya. I know Iraqi brothers too, Kurdish as well. My wife’s sister married and Egyptian, he was there during the Arab Spring wrapping up his last years before coming state-side. I’ve also traveled through Egypt, even in the parts where tourists don’t care to go.

    Pakistan’s government is placing in prison and sentencing to death Pakistani Christians (or other minority religions), or people who criticize Islam, often

    Here is what is going on:
    “Although Pakistan’s law takes the accusation of blasphemy very seriously and people have been sentenced to death, no one has ever actually been executed.”

    https://www.rt.com/news/441190-blasphemy-death-sentence-rally-pakistan/

    There are one or two high-profile cases right now.

    So your government is persecuting your own countrymen for having a different religion

    Complete nonsense. First, I’m an American so go talk to a Pakistani. Second, the government of Pakistan does not willy-nilly arrest and kill off Christians for being Christians. What Pakistan has a serious problem with is vigilante violence; people accusing others of blasphemy and simply committing violence outside of court. Many cases don’t even get to court. The people who do this kind of thing should be punished (as was the guy who killed Salman Taseer).

    The law says people are punished for blasphemy – as they should be in a Muslim country; so the government is not trying to punish innocent people, but someone who broke the law. The only questions here are; is the evidence substantial, is the trial open and fair, does the accused have the ability to defend themselves and is there an appeals process. If the trial was not carried out justly, then the accused should be acquitted – end of story. The government of Pakistan should indeed put its foot down and not yield to the demands of mobs.

    if you want to propose to us who come from Europe that your model was somehow preferable

    Completely separate question; I was simply interested in pointing out Faith Goldy was a Zionist shill. I’m not interested in convincing you the Islamic model is preferable any more than I’m interested in convincing you that you should like the same dessert that I do – I’ve only been interested in making clear and accurate what it is; if you like it, cool – if you don’t, cool.

    At some point, they have to be in responsibility for their actions.

    Correct – and the Muslim extremists are being fought and killed by other Muslims in Muslim lands and thousands of Muslims have died trying to do so. A scholar I have cited often, Sh. Muhammad Yacoubi (ra) – who my own spiritual teacher learned the text of ‘Nur ul-Idaah’ under – stated it was an obligation to fight Daesh:

    http://www.refutingisis.com/

    My point was, the Muslim world is cleaning up the mess others handed to them. Daesh takfiris are killing non-Muslims and will continue to try to kill them in territories they control until they have been brought to heel. It is easier to fight them when you actually have a working army and police force and security apparatus. I cited how Egypt is fighting the extremists…question; do you think that fight would go better or worse if we invaded and destroyed Egypt’s’ army – to ask the question is to answer it.

    America’s Iraq invasion, was based on

    So you mean basically the line Netanyahu was feeding them…”I guarantee” he said. Not to mention the other Neocon fools who knew nothing about the region.

    But the majority of responsibility, will always be with the Iraqis killing each other.

    Correct, which is good because a majority of Iraqis weren’t actually killing each other. There was serious sectarian violence for which each person involved will answer to God as well as the extremists that got out of control – they bear full responsibility for their actions. Just like looters during a riot, but can we agree that it is a stupid thing to do to complain why the cops aren’t doing anything about armed and rioting mobs burning out shops when you’ve bombed out three quarters of the precincts? Can we at least agree to the rules of basic mathematics?

    Can we also agree that if you have rulers in the Muslim world (say like the King of Morocco and the government who is protective of the Jewish population) and a population in which the minorities are living in generally good terms…maybe, just maybe it’s not a smart idea to topple that government and bomb the country’s infrastructure so the people become desperate and law and order breaks down?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Dmitry
    , @songbird
  180. DFH says:
    @Talha

    First, I’m an American

    If a dog is born in a stable, it doesn’t make it a horse

    • Replies: @Talha
  181. Talha says:
    @DFH

    That’s nice – are you an American citizen?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @DFH
  182. utu says:
    @Anon

    I have never heard about the movie. Somebody here has already enlightened me about the Maori Utu. Anyway, there is no connection.

  183. @German_reader

    But you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years

    Yes, if by ’70 years’ you mean ’1070 years’. Russia never had open intercourse with Europe, not unless you count coming in and toppling your oppressive regimes as ‘intercourse’.

    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.

    USA culture is alien to everyone, including Americans themselves. (Thus the phenomenon of American self-hate.) USA culture is an artificial, inhuman creation.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  184. Anon 2 says:
    @German_reader

    Continuing with my theme of great vs. failed civilizations.

    As mentioned before, I think that only England, France, and the U.S.
    deserve the credit of having created great civilizations, sadly all three
    being now in steep decline. And this claim must be accompanied
    by a lot of caveats, mainly due to the fact that humanity seems unable
    to rise above the level of smart chimps – we are tribal, aggressive,
    revengeful, territorial, and status-seeking. One can debate the reasons, e.g.,
    the fact that sea powers and countries with natural borders have an
    advantage over land powers and countries with no natural borders,
    but I’d rather focus here on failed civilizations.

    A sine qua non condition of a great civilization is beauty because beauty is
    truth and truth is beauty. People are attracted to beauty, and a civilization
    cannot be considered great without being a great attractor. Failed
    civilizations typically don’t deserve more than an F or a D in beauty.
    For example, consider the Russian language. Corresponding to the simple
    word like ‘socialist,’ what do we have in Russian? ‘Sotsialisticheskaya’
    (using the feminine ending), and even longer forms when you do the
    declension and look at the genitive or ablative. This, and countless
    examples of this form, to me encapsulate why the Russian language could
    never be a carrier of a great civilization. I’m reminded of a Russian
    woman who said she went to Italy to be surrounded by beauty – beautiful
    language, great cuisine, and beautiful landscapes. Sadly, speaking as
    a Central European, the same applies to all Slavonic languages – one
    reason why Central and Eastern Europe failed to create great civilizations.

    On the other hand, French (due to its liaison, for example in ‘les amis’),
    Italian, and even Spanish are effortlessly beautiful. English is too staccato
    a language to be considered beautiful, it doesn’t flow like French or Italian
    but due to the voluminous vocabulary of French, Latin, and Greek origin it
    cannot be considered ugly, and it is extremely flexible and efficient.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    , @DFH
    , @dfordoom
  185. Mikel says:
    @German_reader

    I don’t know, maybe one could say a certain German xenophobia… certain dismissive attitude towards Slavic peoples, also against Southern Europeans to some degree

    Oh, come on. Everybody feels superior to their neighbors everywhere in the world. Argentinians feel superior to Chileans, Chileans feel superior to Peruvians, Peruvians feel superior to Bolivians. Even southern Bolivians feel superior to their northern compatriots. I lived in that part of the word, I know. Most definitely, we Basques feel unapologetically superior to Spaniards. Why would we want to be independent from them if that wasn’t the case? Our sense of superiority over the French is somewhat mitigated though, hence the lack of a strong separatist movement in the French Basque Country.

    Perhaps it is just inevitable that you Germans feel some sort of biological superiority over the rest of mankind. You are the strongest nation at the core of Europe and you have a widely recognized tradition of efficiency and prosperity. You are also the center of the Germanic group of countries that shaped the modern world. But, given your strength and your historical record at stirring massive conflicts, you’ll have to excuse the rest of us from watching you closely and being weary that you don’t return to your old ways. I think that Asians have all this much better figured out with regards to the Japanese and don’t feel the need to hide their feelings so much towards each other.

    I can also understand that basically no living German has any personal responsibility in it but the scale of the monstrosities initiated by Germans a few generations ago has just no historical precedent. It might take one or two centuries of peaceful coexistence until full trust is recovered.

    At a personal level, one of the reasons why I would not want the Basque Country to become independent right now is because the unnecessary atrocities committed by my terrorist compatriots are too recent. I don’t trust the sincerity of their regret and don’t want to share a national project with that kind of people until enough time has gone by to start a healthy process. Backward as they may be, the Spaniards didn’t deserve the vicious suffering that some of my countrymen inflicted upon them. As I see it, spending some more time under Spanish rule is a necessary price to pay for the excess violence of the past.

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @German_reader
    , @DFH
  186. @neutral

    I wonder what the average Chinaman is thinking when they visit such places, do they really want to pay a lot to go to these places to see other Chinamen. Even worse than that, what does the average Chinaman think when the visit non white cities such as London or Paris, they paid a lot to blacks and browns.

    The gingerbread houses are still standing.

    There are former European concessions in China that have been turned into very popular tourist attractions with shopping areas or immensely overpriced restaurants serving French, German or Italian cuisine.

    And if they can’t find real European-built buildings then they just create copies.

  187. @Mr. Hack

    (I was actually looking for any indications that these thoughts of yours were sarcastic, but no, they appear not to be).

    https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/galaxy-brain-meme-explains-2017/

  188. Anon 2 says:
    @Anon 2

    What about Germany? Similar deficiencies, as compared to English, plague the
    German language. Consider the simple word like ‘acceleration.’ In German the
    corresponding words are ‘Beschleunigung’ or even worse ‘Geschwindigkeitänderung.’
    Just as with Russian, this kind of needless complexity shows why German
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. One could also recommend
    Mark Twain’s 1880 (but still hilarious) essay, “The awful German language.”
    Moreover, unlike Russian which is pleasant to listen to, German sounds
    harsh, and I’d even say that to hear a German shout ‘Raus!’ once is enough to
    instantly lose all interest in the German language and culture. Germany, into
    the foreseeable future, will be known as the bully of Europe (Frau Merkel’s
    behavior is merely the latest example), and suffered the fate that all bullies
    deserve – it was humiliated not once but twice in the 20th century. It will be
    hard for the Germans to overcome the image they gained in the last couple
    of hundred years as a people who achieved a level of greatness at mass
    murder and the obliteration of whole cities.

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women – fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know. Being good at building killing machines is not
    enough. You’ve got to have balance

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Anon 2
  189. @Anon 2

    An important reason why both Germany and Russia are failed
    civs is because they neglected to develop those parts of culture that
    are important to women – fine wines, great cuisine, beautiful
    couture, high-quality cosmetics and jewelry. Women are kind of
    important, you know.

    How do you reconcile this with your view that England and America were great civilisations?

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    , @RadicalCenter
  190. Anon 2 says:
    @Anon 2

    Continuing with the topic of failed civilizations, what about China or Israel?
    While I’m proficient in Russian and French, and reasonably so in German,
    I confess my ignorance of Chinese or Hebrew. But I can see or hear what
    fails the criterion of beauty.

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese, and checking the
    the Internet, this is not an uncommon response. I remember suffering
    through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor
    in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone
    in class. And the Chinese, being arrogant, never accepted the idea that
    you’re supposed to learn English when you teach in America.
    China is No.1, so who needs English? Plus the Chinese characters are
    some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language
    could never be a carrier of a great civilization. In contrast, I could
    listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.
    The language is so beautiful. And don’t get me started on Chinese
    names vs. Japanese names. The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop
    a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing
    writing system, and yet they failed at this task.

    Now Israel. Hebrew is also not a pleasant language to listen to, and the
    Jews obviously completely failed at developing a great civilization. And they
    could have. 2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days. The Jews could
    have formed a separate country in the waning days of the Roman Empire.
    After all, the Magyars reached Europe rather late, and were still able to form
    a separate country. Why did the Jews fail at this task? I’m not a historian
    but I suspect they were too comfortable living as a wealthy group in cities
    like Alexandria, letting others do the dirty jobs. So I’d hypothesize that the
    Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to
    till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves. They exploited
    others for these tasks. Hence, to put it delicately, until they create a
    great civilization, the Jews have nothing to teach us. Get back to us, when
    you do!

  191. Anon 2 says:
    @Hyperborean

    Re:England and America vs. women

    I think that England and America created other things that were important
    to women, e.g., great literature, and being rich, could import fine wines, fabrics
    etc. England, specifically, was so far ahead of everyone in industrial
    development that the English women could see they had many advantages
    over their sisters on the continent. The great attraction of emigrating to
    America in the 18-19th centuries was the idea of ‘living large.’ This was never
    available in Europe. Even the people were taller. Compare the way Americans
    live today in their huge McMansions to the cramped conditions in Europe.
    My real estate agent jokingly said to me, “It’s a sin to live in such a big house.”
    Many middle-class Americans live today the way only nobles lived in
    Europe. And most women love real estate, love to ‘live large,” and love to see
    themselves as the lady of the house.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @Anon 2
    , @dfordoom
  192. @Anon 2

    Few languages grate on my nerves as much as Chinese

    In contrast, I could listen to the Japanese language, esp. spoken by a young woman, for hours.

    This is true, but sung Chinese is beautiful and manly, while sung Japanese is retarded wailing.

    Just goes to show that these long-winded quasi-theories are bullshit.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    , @Anon 2
  193. Epigon says:
    @Anon 2

    1. American whites are hobbits compared to Europeans. American whites are often descended from bottom dwellers of European societies

    2. Name elements of these “great” “civilizations” of England and USA

    3. Write down examples of “great literature” in England and USA

    4. Where do ignorant tards like you get the idea that European poor emigrating to America and struggling to survive, forced by famines, crop diseases and poverty, doing manual labour in sweat shops, living in slums of 19th century had any idea of mansions?

    5. Would you be so kind and fuck off to your glorious real estate, pretentious senile “book writer”? No one is interested in your stupid, repetitive rants on matters you clearly have no idea, and which has been demonstrated to you previously.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @utu
  194. Epigon says:
    @Anon 2

    2000 years ago there were about 12-15 million Jews living in the
    Mediterranean basin, a very large number for those days.

    You’re a certified imbecile. The whole of Roman Empire at its peak had between 40 and 60 million, population, spread across three continents.
    Italy never surpassed the 10 million total population and you number JEWS in tens of millions in 1st century AD?

    • Replies: @Anon 2
    , @anonymous coward
  195. DFH says:
    @Epigon

    1. American whites are hobbits compared to Europeans. American whites are often descended from bottom dwellers of European societies

    Is that why American whites are more intelligent (according to PISA results) than Europeans and created a more prosperous and succesful society than almost all of Europe?
    Aren’t you some sort of South Slav anyway? Truly the bottom end of the European race

    2. Name elements of these “great” “civilizations” of England and USA

    -> Settling a huge proportion of the Earth’s surface and turning it from wasteland into civilisation
    -> Being responsible for more scientific and technological advances than any other European group

    3. Write down examples of “great literature” in England and USA

    Shakespeare, Milton, Blake, Coleridge, Byron, Keats, Austen, (George) Eliot, Trollope, Kipling, Hardy, Lawrence, James, Pound, (T.S.) Eliot

    • Replies: @Epigon
  196. DFH says:
    @Talha

    Would I need to be a Japanese citizen to know that you’re not Japanese?
    Do you think that a piece of paper makes you an American?

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Talha
  197. Anon 2 says:
    @Anon 2

    To expand on the concept of ‘living large’ in America,
    let me give another example. My university office is
    much larger than the offices of the professors I visited
    in Europe, and I’m a typical example. I’m not even a chair
    or a dean. I’m only a full professor. It is this type of ‘living
    large’ that America has been offering to its upper middle
    class for at least 200 years, one of many reasons why
    the U.S. still remains a great civilization. How much longer?
    This is something nobody knows

  198. DFH says:
    @Anon 2

    even Spanish are effortlessly beautiful

    In Galicia, maybe

  199. Mitleser says:
    @utu

    Assuming that ‘children with migrant background’ are children from ‘households with migrant background in the narrow sense’ then 23.5% households is responsible for 39.1% of children. This is more realistic than what I have calculated above where I assumed that foreign born parents (14%) as the base of calculations. Still the migrant households outbreed the w/o migrant background households by quite a lot: exactly by factor of 2.1. (this was calculated as (39.1/23.5)/(60.9/76.5) )

    TFR in Berlin in 2015 and 2016

  200. Anon 2 says:
    @Epigon

    Re: Jewish population in the Roman Empire

    According to Wikipedia, the global Jewish population in the 1930s was
    17 million. One always hears the assertions that the number of Jews today
    is roughly the same as 2,000 years ago, i.e., 10-15 million. No one knows
    for sure because the exact number depends on the definition of who is Jewish:
    religious, secular, ethnic, etc. Do half Jews count? Ron Unz and others
    can’t even agree on the total Jewish enrollment at Harvard. But suppose
    that the number of Jews in the Roman Empire was 8-10 million, as many
    sources suggest. That was more than enough to form a separate country.
    Much smaller numbers formed medieval countries such as Hungary or Poland.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  201. Anon 2 says:
    @anonymous coward

    Re: Spoken Chinese vs. sung Chinese

    Do I need to state the obvious and say that the relevant comparison is
    between the spoken languages. That’s what people hear when they
    listen to the Chinese Americans speaking their native tongue(s),
    and that’s what they mainly hear when they visit China.

  202. Anon 2 says:
    @anonymous coward

    Re: Long-winded quasi theories

    ‘Quasi theories’ would describe perhaps 99% of what is posted on Unz.com,
    and 95% of what is taught at universities outside of STEM and medicine.
    Unfortunately, as Plato’s Protagoras and much later Nietzsche, pointed
    out, our quest for knowledge is ruled by perspectivism. All our knowledge
    is partial, a needlessly pessimistic point of view in physics or chemistry,
    but certainly valid in areas such as history, literature, art, law, economics,
    linguistics or sociology.

    My posts were a bit long-winded because I think the esthetic point of view
    in describing countries has not received enough attention on this blog.
    Inxreasingly, especially as women are becoming better educated and gaining
    more power, countries are beginning to compete in soft power as much as
    in military power. Hence the esthetic point of view in marketing and branding
    on the national level will become increasingly important.

  203. iffen says:
    @DFH

    Do you think that a piece of paper makes you an American?

    Yes, American is a true melting pot; it’s just that the fire under the pot has nearly gone out and people like Talha and the SJWs won’t let us re-kindle the hot flame.

    • Replies: @Talha
  204. iffen says:
    @Talha

    whether the question of Jews being compatible with Germany is also dependent on the kind of Germans around and its leadership.

    Yes, but most Germans are not and were not Nazis. All Muslims are Muslim, or at least claim to be.

    • Replies: @Talha
  205. Talha says:
    @DFH

    If you are not an American citizen then your opinion has absolutely no practical bearing on the issue so the more proper analogy would be…

    A dog was born in the dog house, but the horses let it into the stable, branded it like a horse and consider it a horse…so the dog doesn’t really care what the pig and goat say…

    Peace.

    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  206. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Correct and not all Muslims are Daesh-type extremists. So again, depends on what kind of Muslims you have around and who are in charge.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  207. Talha says:
    @iffen

    and people like Talha

    I don’t know what I have to do with this; I’m not against Muslims integrating into society nor have I said I am opposed in principle to American citizens kicking me out if they demand that the parameters of me staying are that I have to completely assimilate.

    Earlier this year, my daughter – who is in theater, was the stage manager on her high school troupe’s rendition of The Diary of Anne Frank. I am not joking.

    Peace.

  208. iffen says:

    school troupe’s rendition of The Diary of Anne Frank. I am not joking.

    I am appalled, but not surprised (by now) that you would consider The Diary of Anne Frank as some sort of political test. You really need to get a handle of your Jew-phobia.

    • Replies: @Talha
  209. iffen says:
    @Mitleser

    Elites of the founding nations of the European projects run the EU

    Yeah, I know, it’s not like back in the time of H. when the proles and plebes were running everything.

  210. Talha says:
    @iffen

    It’s not – it is a sign of cultural integration as was her production of Williams’ Streetcar. I already took and passed my political test – I have no problems upholding the Constitution…the Constitution can (and has undergone) change if the citizens deem it…not the rule I wrote into it, it was like that when I got here. I accepted it on its own grounds.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  211. iffen says:
    @Talha

    Correct and not all Muslims are Daesh-type extremists. So again, depends on what kind of Muslims you have around and who are in charge.

    Germans were controlled by a group of Germans (Nazis) with an ideology/religion. It depended upon the ideology (type) of German. German was the root; Nazis were a variety. Islam is an ideology/religion. Islam is the root. Nationalities, ethnicities, races, Sufis, Daesh-types, Wahhabies, etc. are the varieties.

    • Replies: @Talha
  212. iffen says:
    @Talha

    It’s not – it is a sign of cultural integration as was her production of Williams’ Streetcar. I already took and passed my political test

    Not that kind of politics. The kind of politics that says, “My daughter can’t be a Jew-hater like most Muslims; she helped in the production of The Diary of Anne Frank.”

    • Replies: @Talha
  213. utu says:
    @Epigon

    Your arguments about culture are not well taken but your observation that we are dealing with the case senility must be correct otherwise the nonsense he is spouting inexplicable. Anon 2 is why the word Fremdscham was invented.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  214. @Epigon

    Sounds about right. There were a lot of Old Testament Jews back in those days. The key is to understand that those Old Testament guys have no relation to the guys who call themselves ‘Jews’ today.

    • LOL: iffen
  215. Epigon says:
    @DFH

    Is that why American whites are more intelligent (according to PISA results)

    LOL, sure. Anyway, the claim was about great, tall, handsome Americans – a total nonsense of a statement that bears no semblence of reality.

    If we went into details and contributions of specific segments of USA white society, you might finally understand what I am pointing at.

    Being responsible for more scientific and technological advances than any other European group

    Having a narrow political and intellectual white elite that produces the great thinkers is not in any way opposed to the statement that USA mostly got the bottom of Europe. It is a historical fact.

    You missed Germans and Germany, which dwarf British and USA contributions in field of sciene and engineering from 1850 to 1945.

    Shakespeare, Milton, Blake, Coleridge, Byron, Keats, Austen, (George) Eliot, Trollope, Kipling, Hardy, Lawrence, James, Pound, (T.S.) Eliot

    Wow, so many 18th and 19th century world big literary names, especially Americans!
    Anglocentrism is so funny. You are unironically naming no-names in world literature as world dominating authors of the period and literary titans.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @DFH
  216. Talha says:
    @iffen

    So it depends on the interpretation of Islam that takes hold of the society and leadership. And not all interpretations are the same or yield the same results – for instance, Daesh immediately started destroying historical monuments and pre-Islamic relics that Muslims had left alone all this time. That was my point.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Nznz
  217. Epigon says:
    @Anon 2

    My university office is
    much larger than the offices of the professors I visited
    in Europe, and I’m a typical example.

    Does your office have rubber walls and polite assistants dressed in all-white?

    One always hears the assertions that the number of Jews today
    is roughly the same as 2,000 years ago, i.e., 10-15 million.

    I have no doubt all sorts of interesting “assertions” can be heard in the “university” at which you work.

    No one knows

    Except for tax and census data

    for sure because the exact number depends on the definition of who is Jewish:
    religious, secular, ethnic, etc.

    I think the Hellenic and Roman administrators didn’t bother with distinction, but what do I know? I am a small European, living in small living quarters, who attended a small university, outside of civilization.

  218. utu says:
    @Anon 2

    The Chinese had 4,000 years to develop a beautiful sounding language along with an efficient and esthetically pleasing writing system, and yet they failed at this task.

    Some beauty takes thousands of years of development to be appreciated. If Brits or Poles are around for another 3000 years then perhaps they may evolve to the point of appreciating it as well. Hopefully your children are a tiny bit more appreciative already. Speaking of children, ask them to tune up your dotage medication so the embarrassment feed back loop kicks in so we do not have to feel it vicariously for you.

  219. Epigon says:
    @utu

    This isn’t the first time the ignoramus in question lashed out against Spanish, Hellenic, Italian and German culture/civilization, and indulged in pointless, nonsensical drivel.
    Italy alone has more of both culture and civilization than all of the Anglo offshoots combined; not to delve deeper into the rest of his arbitrary ramblings.
    I don’t understand what is the driving force behind his narcissistic escapades, could just be a case of determined trolling.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @utu
  220. Nznz says: • Website
    @Talha

    What is the difference between a flexible interpretation and heresy? Is there an interpretation of Islam that would be OK with gay marriage and hook ups?

    • Replies: @Talha
  221. utu says:
    @Epigon

    Old age on top of congenital stupidity.

  222. oy whey says:
    @neutral

    even the golf hole is going to get raped

  223. Talha says:
    @iffen

    I already know my daughter and I don’t hate Jews for the simple reason that we don’t hate Jews. Most Jews I have come across have had cordial and friendly interactions, I simply keep the subject of Israel out of it and they are intelligent enough to do the same.

    I’ve met some Muslims that hate Jews deeply but not the majority of Muslims that I’ve come across -especially among my generation; it’s not even close. If you have some polls about Muslims in the US that say otherwise, I’d love to see them.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @iffen
  224. Talha says:
    @Nznz

    What is the difference between a flexible interpretation and heresy?

    Good question – the parameters we have are flexible to a point. Generally, the scholars reach a consensus on a matter that defines the limits of interpretive leeway. So for instance, there are differences of opinion on what exactly is required for a marriage contract, but none of the schools say you can marry a man or more than four women at a time. When something has been set in stone for nearly 10-12 centuries, it’s pretty obvious that it is a defined rule.

    Heresy by the way is something that has to do with beliefs and we actually have flexibility there. For instance, Imam Ibn Rushd (ra) – aka Averroes – had heretical beliefs, but is still considered an authority for legal rulings in the Maliki school.

    Is there an interpretation of Islam that would be OK with gay marriage and hook ups?

    Yes there is, but not by anybody that has the prequisite qualifications to make interpretations. ;)

    Peace.

  225. notanon says:
    @Mikel

    but the scale of the monstrosities initiated by Germans a few generations ago has just no historical precedent

    Bolsheviks

  226. utu says:
    @Epigon

    lashed out against Spanish

    It is very sad that Spanish cultural accomplishments have been pushed aside. The sidelining I suspect was a conscious cultural policy of England which ultimately was very successful. Sometimes I wonder how the world would looked liked to us if its description was written by Spaniards. There are tonnes of old books in Spain’s libraries that have not been translated to other languages. There are archives that we know nothing about and there is literature that is under appreciated. Spaniards conducted legal and philosophical debates that were unthought of in England at that time and still would be incomprehensible to Americans. Lope de Vega wrote over 1500 plays and 500 hundreds survived but nobody knows much about it. And Shakespeare is being pushed down the throats in every culture generation after generation. It is relentless. Cultural policy of English, British Empire and continued by American Empire is the most blatant and successful form of cultural suprematism that ever occurred in history. Only Jewish suprematism can match it and right now it is using the Anglo-American vehicle to do it. The roots of it are deeper and should be looked at the battle on spiritual level which for Brits and Americans was distilled to the tension between Catholicism and Protestantism. Probably nobody could coherently explain anymore what was the essence of the differences as far as philosophical and social issues but they were important. But the hate still is alive. For the Brits and Americans things are simple because they are really simple minded in how they see the world. Their philosophies of empiricism and pragmatism are reflections of their minds. And this is their strength because it brings everything down to the bottom line. Show me your money. No wonder they attract simpleton aficionados like our poor Anon 2. In this simplicity they have the meme of Spanish Armada they still keep telling jokes about it and manage to get lots of laughs. It is pretty amazing.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @DFH
  227. iffen says:
    @Talha

    Who (what group) thinks that The Diary of Anne Frank says something about the JQ?

    • Replies: @Talha
  228. Epigon says:
    @utu

    Excellent post, once again my thoughts exactly. The British portrayal/propaganda against Spanish is the Black Legend, a systematic effort throughout ages, where a de facto piratical nation preying upon merchant convoys and employing pirates as admirals lectures on civilization and virtues.

    It even spread to encompass all Catholics during the 16th/17th century period – for example
    With Lope de Vega, you hit the nail on the head. Spain in 16th and 17th century was a unique culture where Military Career was most prestigious. And none more so than Tercios, which was also the most dangerous service.
    Along with Lope de Vega, the other famous Spanish authors such as Cervantes, Calderon de la Barca, Gongora, Quevedo were Tercio soldiers/officers, and had served in front-line combat ranks. If I remember correctly, higher strata of Spanish society didn’t participate in trade and moneylending, and they were oriented towards military, religion and agriculture. So, an altogether opposite from mercantilistic, materialistic islanders.
    So in a span of a single century, Spain/Habsburgs fought France, Ottomanans (they had an alliance), Dutch rebels (not all Dutch were initially supportive of rebellion, Amsterdam welcomed Duke of Alba/Alva), German Protestants and England, with Scandinavians of course supporting the Protestant side.
    Naturally, this caused the negative portrayal of Spain in the centuries that followed, when Spanish power waned and its erstwhile enemies prospered and gained clout.

    • Replies: @DFH
  229. notanon says:

    it’s always interesting to see how one bit of divide and rule trolling can cause so many different ripples

  230. inertial says:
    @Anon 2

    I remember suffering through a whole semester of science lectures by a Chinese professor in the U.S. whose accent was completely unintelligible to everyone in class.

    You should post a recording of yourself speaking English so that we could all laugh at your accent.

    Plus the Chinese characters are some of the ugliest things one could ever see. Thus the Chinese language could never be a carrier of a great civilization.

    You know what language has an ugly writing system? Polish.

    You guys should switch to Cyrillic alphabet. It fits Slavic languages (and the Romanian) far better.

    So I’d hypothesize that the Jews failed at creating their own country because they were too unwilling to till the soil and pick up a sword to defend themselves.

    So I take it you’ve never heard of Jewish uprisings against the Roman Empire?

  231. @anonymous coward

    You seem to confuse Hollywood “culture” with the way that many millions of us traditional Americans still live, love, think, believe, and work. Nothing artificial or inhuman at all.

    I know the best and worst of the USA, born and raised here and lived in about ten States, and it’s mostly getting worse, but get out and see the full picture.

    Normal married Americans with children — proud of their ancestors, language, and mores; willing to fight to defend our land and way of life but NOT looking for a fight — not confused about their own sexuality, their own identity, and not confused about their primary loyalties and duties to God, family, and nation — would typically have a lot in common with normal married people with children elsewhere, including Russia.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  232. Talha says:
    @iffen

    I don’t understand the question, sorry…

    Peace.

  233. @Hyperborean

    If you think America doesn’t have fine wine and cuisine, you aren’t trying hard at all. What country are you even talking about? Not the one where I live.

    Now, as for more and more Americans finding it hard to afford regular food and drink, let alone that fine wine and cuisine, that’s another story,and a different problem.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Hyperborean
  234. @Mikel

    Probably a sound characterization of Germans still.

    But Germans don’t have children. So nothing they believe or think is going to matter much. They are a rapidly aging, dwindling people. They won’t be a threat even to the invaders among them, let alone to any foreign country.

    • Replies: @Talha
  235. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    It makes sense though that the US is more alien.
    Thanks for your answer.

    For some concrete ways.

    Russia in reality, easily one of the most secular countries in Europe. Modernity of lifestyle not different, except in material level, than neighbours of Northern Europe.

    America on the other hand – more like a Middle Eastern country in its religious style, which effects people’s whole lifestyle. Probably even the easiest way to make friends for Americans, is to join your church.

    Young Americans have religious rock festivals, and often find their friends and girlfriends through their church (or Scientology Centre, Mosque, Synagogue, etc). I’m not sure there is parallel for Europe. American religious life is a lot more like a Middle Eastern country in this dimension.

    (Obviously, with qualification – America has a huge advantage since they have a very well designed system to separate religious and political life).

    Likewise, for urban planning, which is a very large determinant in culture shock, most million and over cities in Russia are an incompetent version of European layout of similar size city.

    On the other hand, American city layout is radically different and original, and designed around car driving, and also possibly including more exotic goals like separation of racial groups. Driving around Los Angeles – and it’s a completely new kind of city layout, which is nowhere in Europe. (Maybe in Brazil or Mexico it is more similar?)

    We could also write about more vague dimensions like “collectivist mentality”. Of course, Russia is on a more similar collectivist mentality as other Northern European countries – Sweden, Germany, etc, than America.

    you were cut off from open intercourse with much of Europe for 70 years because of communism, I would have expected some lingering effect of that (which certainly exists in relations between West and East Germany which were only divided for 40 years).

    Well Italy has Mussolini for 20 years.

    Spain has Franco for almost 40 years.

    Germany has Hitler, for 12 years, and GDR another 40 years.

    A lot of countries in Europe have shit governments. In case of Germany, it was far more extreme than everyone else, if for shorter time.

  236. Talha says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Naw man – you gotta invest long on the Germans like one does on the Persians. We’re talking Germans, bro!

    Peace.

  237. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    think that American outward friendliness which exceeds anything you see in Europe could have arose from the necessity of accommodating strangers

    I don’t see much advantage of superficial friendliness, if they don’t actually want to be your friend.

    Sure, there is a small advantage of creating a more civilized atmosphere and reducing your stress level.

    But then there is disadvantage, that being friendly itself is something which can lose its real aim.

    • Disagree: utu
    • Replies: @utu
    , @songbird
    , @notanon
  238. Anonymous[311] • Disclaimer says:
    @theo the kraut

    QUOTE: Nazi Marcel Grauf, AfD functionary, wishing for a civil war with millions dead …

    A “Nazi” party controlled and operated by government agents provocateurs existed in the former West Germany, operated by MI6 agent Adolf von Thadden whose sister had been executed by the actual Nazis.

    More recently, almost every “neo-Nazi” incident in Germany ended up revealing the presence of government agents, often from bitterly feuding rival agencies. Several murders were committed to cover up government involvement in these incidents.

    At present, Germany’s weakening government coalition (quietly supported by hard-left “Greens”) is using all resources of the Deep State to undermine the national-conservative AfD (Alternative for Germany). The injection of noisy agents provocateur to paint the party as “Nazi” is certainly part of the Deep State suppression project. Far more nefarious operations are likely in train.

    In fact, given the time of its foundation (after 2000), the AfD is the only party who never had ACTUAL National Socialists in its senior ranks.

    • Replies: @notanon
  239. @RadicalCenter

    Normal married Americans with children — proud of their ancestors, language, and mores; willing to fight to defend our land and way of life but NOT looking for a fight — not confused about their own sexuality, their own identity, and not confused about their primary loyalties and duties to God, family, and nation — would typically have a lot in common with normal married people with children elsewhere, including Russia.

    Normality is not culture. Culture starts where ‘being normal’ stops. And all of this in America is absolutely artificial and inhuman.

    • Replies: @inertial
  240. @Dmitry

    Russia in reality, easily one of the most secular countries in Europe.

    Get out of your Jewish enclave more often. It’ll be scary but illuminating for you.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  241. @Talha

    An Englishman has a much better idea of what an American is than a Pakistani Mohammedan who was awarded a trophy for participation.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Ali Choudhury
  242. Talha says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I acknowledge that the Englishman thinks so. But they haven’t run this place (or burnt down the capital buildings) in a hell of a long time, so…meh.

    Also, that’s “Mahometan” – let’s get it right as Americans…

    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions45.html

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  243. notanon says:
    @Anonymous

    More recently, almost every “neo-Nazi” incident in Germany ended up revealing the presence of government agents

    when incidents like this happen (which they always will from time to time) it’s always better to go on the offensive and blame it on a media or fed plant rather than running around disavowing which looks weak – plus 95% of the time it is a media or fed plant.

  244. songbird says:
    @utu

    During the “refugee crisis” the numbers I heard thrown around were, I think about 10% of the age cohort of males who were under 30, in Germany, for newcomers in that single year. The expectation was that they would, at a minimum, be reunited with an equal number of females, but probably more relatives.

    I don’t how accurate that number was but as an American I’d give a few lessons:
    1.) advocates/the press/government downplay the numbers significantly
    2.) demographic change happens much faster than practically anyone in Europe realizes
    3.) you cannot stop it by having more responsible/honest politicians or hoping they obey the law after the fact and deport them. It is the system.
    4.) it can only be stopped by dramatically changing the incentives, at every level

  245. Dmitry says:
    @Talha

    First, I’m an American so go talk to a Pakistani.

    But your nationality and origin was Pakistani?

    So if you propose that modern life in white and European countries is so problematic all the time, then we can look at Pakistan for alternative, and then learn a new appreciation for our modern life.

    By the way, I have talked to intelligent, well educated Pakistani guy – his view was very against influence of Islamism in Pakistan. My impression this is much more the educated view in Pakistan.

    The law says people are punished for blasphemy – as they should be in a Muslim country; so the government is not trying to punish innocent people, but someone who broke the law.

    Lol so you actually support this. It seems extreme and immoral.

    If white and European countries, agreed to this kind of law, they could execute all Muslims (and other religions) like yourself for blasphemy. You use internet now, rely on satellite communications, fly in planes. It’s because of men like Giordano Bruno, which could do “blasphemy”.

    -

    Completely separate question; I was simply interested in pointing out Faith Goldy was a Zionist shill.

    And you are “Islamist shill”? You were angry with her because she wants to ban Muslim immigration, not because her views (which I google her now) about a 15 kilometer wide country in the Eastern Mediterranean, which is of limited importance and power even in Mediterranean, which is thousands of kilometers from where you live or come from.

    She seems, indeed, as a uneducated redneck. However, if you can be at all objective, you will understand her viewpoint is very rational.

    It seems like in most famous cities of the world, where Muslims were kindly allowed – whether Moscow, London, New York, Berlin, Paris, Boston etc. The most violent and immoral action that has occurred in recent history, was by Muslim immigrants who were warmly allowed to the country. Usually this involves murdering innocent civilians with suicide bombs or random massacres

    At the same, situation in Muslim countries is highly unsuccessful and undeveloped, with very few contributions. If I get cancer – I don’t think I will be saved by technology from a Muslim country.

    So there is inevitable that many people will be resistant to Islamic immigration or increasing Muslim demographics, like Faith Goldy (I don’t know if she will be Mayor of Toronto).

    Maybe it’s difficult situation for Muslims, and unfair on the majority which are not laying bombing, but objectively it can be seen there is a real problem of terrorism and violence in the community.
    .

    My point was, the Muslim world is cleaning up the mess others handed to them. Daesh takfiris are killing non-Muslims and will continue to try to kill them in territories they control until they have been brought to heel.

    I remember this years before “Daesh”. Every week in Iraq (or many other Muslim countries, and non-Muslim countries), there are regular massacres by Islamists, who build a bomb, and try to kill as many civilians as possible. In countries like Iraq, every week for years.

    Someone like America contributes to weakening the central authority in Iraq, idiotically. But the evil was endogenous. It’s not Americans who are building bombs and putting them in marketplace in Baghdad, over and over. Responsible people for these murders, are endogenous to the countries.

    So you mean basically the line Netanyahu was feeding them…”I guarantee” he said

    Netanyahu is a politician of a very small country, or (in real world) marginal power, who cannot even achieve basic election promises in Israel (very small country with average parameters) like deporting some Africans. It’s a sign of dishonestly, to try to talk about him, when we people are worried about Muslim immigration, because endless bombing and massacres that continue week after week, where a Muslim guy is building bombs and trying to kill civilians, all over the world.

    In Iraq, 2003 invasion was part of the problem. But in Paris? In London? In Moscow, New York, Boston, Manchester, Brussels, Berlin, etc, etc?

    • Replies: @Talha
  246. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    America’s Iraq invasion, was based on a plan in which they estimated the country and people were more “reasonable” and “stable” than they are, and would emerge as some harmonious democracy immediately after.

    This is to me a very alarming thought: Bush was Merkel with more firepower. He exported globalism; Merkel imported it. Their essential beliefs were indistinguishable. The main differences were their capabilities and the geography.

  247. @Epigon

    Having a narrow political and intellectual white elite that produces the great thinkers is not in any way opposed to the statement that USA mostly got the bottom of Europe. It is a historical fact.

    This is an interesting “fact”. In fact three of the four main British groups that settled America were prosperous and high status within Britain. The fourth group (Scotch-Irish) was not, but they do make excellent soldiers. Also present at the founding were a fair number of Dutchmen, mainly prosperous merchants. Half of white Americans trace their roots to before the Declaration.

    Of the Ellis Island immigrants, one-third returned to Europe. For Italians, half returned. It was mainly those who couldn’t hack it in America who returned.

    You missed Germans and Germany, which dwarf British and USA contributions in field of sciene and engineering from 1850 to 1945.

    Incidentally, there are 50 million German-Americans. Including Presidents Hoover, Eisenhower, and Trump.

    They continued their scientific and engineering achievements in America. Boeing, Westinghouse, IBM, and Goodyear were all founded by German-Americans.

    Wow, so many 18th and 19th century world big literary names, especially Americans!
    Anglocentrism is so funny. You are unironically naming no-names in world literature as world dominating authors of the period and literary titans.

    Comparing literature from different languages is a difficult exercise which I will not attempt.

    I will say that English literature is better than American. Honestly, I think the best American author is Tom Wolfe. But he hasn’t been dead long enough to get such a title (he’s also bad at endings).

  248. @Dmitry

    “It’s not America making Iraqis or Islamists build bombs, hide them in civilians markets, and murder their countrymen, over and over for years, (until news does not even report anymore).”

    No, but in Syria, Libya and Iraq there were stable (if authoritarian and brutal) regimes which afforded security to most people. US/UK/Saudis smashed those regimes (or tried to in Syria’s case, inshallah the Lion of his people will triumph despite looking more like a meerkat).

    Bemoaning religious or tribal violence and saying its not your fault is like leaving the henhouse unlocked then blaming the fox for being a fox. America broke it, America bought it.

    If Syrians/Iraqis/Libyans were capable of peaceful internal coexistence they wouldn’t have needed strongman leaders in the beginning.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  249. Dmitry says:
    @anonymous coward

    What is this “Jewish enclave”? It’s a religious one.

    Jews are highly religious, on a completely different scale. The most secular Jewish fraction of Israel, are generally living more religiously in basic criteria (relation to organized religion), than religious people in Russia/Europe.

    So, 98.8% of Russia don’t attend church even once a month. And this 1.2% who are – it’s mainly old women.

    Church attendance has been falling since its peak in early 1990s.

    In my hometown, around 2.7% of people visit any church service during Easter.

    But there are significant cities, like Chelyabinsk, where only 0,8% of people attend any Easter service.

    And these are the relevant statistics, not how many people believe god (which measures spirituality, not organized religion), or are baptised (I was baptised, and even been to Easter communion, when I was a kid, and yet my life is 100% separated from the organized religion, which I found less useful for my soul than listening to classical music or reading a book).

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  250. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    I don’t see much advantage of superficial friendliness, if they don’t actually want to be your friend.

    Jews have higher tolerance for unfriendliness so probably that’s why you do not get it. Calculating advantage when it comes to being nice and friendly also can be consider as a Jewish thing.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  251. Dmitry says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    If Syrians/Iraqis/Libyans were capable of peaceful coexistence they wouldn’t have needed strongman leaders in the beginning.

    It’s very true.

    Also that the countries were divided in an incompetent way, by the British/French colonial empires.

    Nonetheless, Islamists endlessly bombing each other in Iraq, Libya, Syria, are humans, not dominoes.

    They choose to build the bomb, lay bomb, kill civilians. Over and over. They are main responsible factor, and they are endogenous to the country.

    How is this relevant to us, which live in non-Muslim countries? Well inductively, if I think about whether I want to allow Muslim immigrants to the country (like Faith Goldy), – then I believe this might be quite relevant, particularly as immigrants are even coming from these countries precisely.

  252. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Jews have higher tolerance for unfriendliness so probably that’s why you do not get it.

    My first exposure to actual Jews when I was 21 years old and visited Israel (and my first observation that they are more friendly, including for superficial reasons, the latter of which I dislike).

    Calculating advantage when it comes to being nice and friendly also can be consider as a Jewish thing.

    Utu – obsessed with Jews.

    Problem of “friendly behaviour” of Americans (from what I hear from people who live there) is not real friendliness. It is fake friendliness. There is no advantage of being friendly, if they don’t want to be your friend. It’s actually a culture of misleading people and raising their expectations, and then not actually inviting them to go out.

    • Agree: Yevardian
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @utu
    , @Yevardian
  253. inertial says:
    @anonymous coward

    All you know about American culture is what imbeciles around the world want to consume.

  254. Talha says:
    @Dmitry

    So if you propose that modern life in white and European countries is so problematic all the time

    It isn’t – it is only problematic in the areas that are problematic. When have I proposed turning European countries into something like Pakistan? The reason people like my father came here is because they didn’t want to live in a place like Pakistan.

    Lol so you actually support this.

    I support punishing public instances of blasphemy. But since the Hanafi school is flexible on the terms of punishment, I don’t feel it is necessary to execute anyone when a fine or jail time will do just fine. I would like to see things changed so that the burden of evidence is raised so that people can’t accuse people on a whim or abuse the law for personal gain.

    It seems extreme and immoral.

    Convince the Pakistanis to change to a more flexible interpretation as I outlined above. Since I don’t support it, I feel no need to defend it.

    If white and European countries, agreed to this kind of law, they could execute all Muslims (and other religions) like yourself for blasphemy.

    I agree, it seems historical Christianity was quite inflexible when it came to interpretations of blasphemy. Not our problem – we define it our way. As the former Grand Mufti of Pakistan stated; blasphemy is publicly derision and reviling things like God and His Messenger (pbuh) – not academic criticism of Islamic doctrine since this is not covered lexically under blasphemy.

    You were angry with her because she wants to ban Muslim immigration

    Wrong again – I don’t mind a ban on any immigration (Muslim or not). How many times exactly are you going to accuse me of supporting policies I don’t?

    The most violent and immoral action that has occurred in recent history, was by Muslim immigrants who were warmly allowed to the country.

    Yup – which is why I can see why countries want to halt Muslim immigration. No problems here.

    but objectively it can be seen there is a real problem of terrorism and violence in the community.

    Agreed – we have an extremism problem we need to get under control.

    In countries like Iraq, every week for years.

    Yup – after the 2003 invasion – not before.

    Responsible people for these murders, are endogenous to the countries.

    Correct, as were the people keeping them in check – why did the US destroy the capability of the people keeping them in check? Again, a simple question; I cited that the government of Jordan is fighting and killing and jailing extremists in their midst. Now, would it be a good or bad idea to destroy their military and intelligence network?

    who cannot even achieve basic election promises in Israel

    But gets standing ovations in the US Congress – yeah, no influence there…

    when we people are worried about Muslim immigration

    Again, I have no problems shutting it down. Again, when did this recent wave of mass immigration start from destabilized countries? I’m talking about men like Netanyahu because they are a part of the problem. I cited and Israeli source stating clearly that they want the US to stay in the region and that they want the US to fight Assad. And I won’t get into how many times they’ve tried to get the US to attack Iran. THAT leads to instability in the region which then leads to massive population movements and destabilization of borders. Libya is a launching pad for waves of immigrants, was it before Qaddhafi was toppled? No. This is not rocket science.

    What do Israeli military analysts prefer:
    “With regard to the global aspect, the Libyan issue raises several concerns. Firstly, there are question marks regarding the actual ability to enforce regimes of non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction on rogue states. Secondly, one may ask: would it be better to accept the stable regime of tyrants such as Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein, Assad and the Ayatollah regime in Iran, or should those tyrants be toppled despite the ensuing process where their countries disintegrate, which involves severe violence? As much as we may regret the situation in Syria and Iraq, it seems, at least from the Israeli perspective, that the second option is preferable – it is easier to confine and the situation may stabilize eventually.”

    http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/content/gaddafis-mental-follies-and-megalomania

    And please, everyone knows how much influence pro-Israeli Neocons have had for a while in the US.

    Why are people like you not willing to acknowledge the “invade” part of the “invade and invite” equation?

    We can keep going if you want in any direction (as long as Mr. Karlin is cool with it), but two points:
    1) I’m 100% fine with shutting down Muslim immigration.
    2) Faith Goldy is still a Zionist shill.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Talha
  255. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    Politeness, courtesy, and friendliness are extremely good things and a big part of what makes a country fun, the problem with American friendliness is that it is also a kind of concealed competitiveness and hostility, where you one-up each other on who can be more outgoing, talk louder, laugh louder, be more exuberant, and in general exhaust the other person into submission lol. Americans, not everything has to be a competition lol!

    I am a very outgoing and friendly person, even an exuberant person, but in a low key and courteous kind of way, and I can’t help but detect a a note of aggressive competitiveness in Americans who try and talk louder than me or laugh louder than me.

    Other countries do friendliness much better. Japan is probably the exemplar, although their courtesy occasionally tips over into subtle coldness or even mockery, at its worst. At its best its real warmth, kindness, and and joie de vivre. And certain European countries also do a low key refined genuine friendliness very well, and some of the Chinese areas.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @iffen
  256. DFH says:
    @Epigon

    You missed Germans and Germany, which dwarf British and USA contributions in field of sciene and engineering from 1850 to 1945.

    No they don’t. The alleged German discoveries also include many Jews. German-fetishism is hilarious.

    Wow, so many 18th and 19th century world big literary names, especially Americans!
    Anglocentrism is so funny. You are unironically naming no-names in world literature as world dominating authors of the period and literary titans.

    More than any other modern country except France.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Dmitry
  257. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I agree, it seems historical Christianity was quite inflexible when it came to interpretations of blasphemy. Not our problem – we define it our way. As the former Grand Mufti of Pakistan stated; blasphemy is publicly derision and reviling things like God and His Messenger (pbuh) – not academic criticism of Islamic doctrine since this is not covered lexically under blasphemy.

    The issue here is one of moral law and civil law. Here, from the Catholic Encyclopedia, is the moral definition of blasphemy, due to Suarez, against God: any word of malediction, reproach, or contumely pronounced against God, which breaks down into several categories:

    Blasphemy, by reason of the significance of the words with which it is expressed, may be of three kinds.

    It is heretical when the insult to God involves a declaration that is against faith, as in the assertion: “God is cruel and unjust” or “The noblest work of man is God”.
    It is imprecatory when it would cry a malediction upon the Supreme Being as when one would say: “Away with God”.
    It is simply contumacious when it is wholly made up of contempt of, or indignation towards, God, as in the blasphemy of Julian the Apostate: “Thou has conquered, O Galilaean”.
    Again, blasphemy may be (1) either direct, as when the one blaspheming formally intends to dishonour the Divinity, or (2) indirect, as when without such intention blasphemous words are used with advertence to their import.

    Under the civil law in the Anglo world, Blasphemy cognizable by common law is defined by Blackstone to be “denying the being or providence of God, contumelious reproaches of our Saviour Jesus Christ, profane scoffing at the Holy Scripture, or exposing it to contempt or ridicule”.
    In a more general sense Blasphemy (Greek blaptein, “to injure”, and pheme, “reputation”) signifies etymologically gross irreverence towards any person or thing worthy of exalted esteem. and this is the relevant sense, interpreted with special regard to religious feeling, punished by the Indian Penal Code.

    • Replies: @Talha
  258. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    Personally I’ve been in Japan. You know, people don’t try to randomly talk warmly to you in a train or restaurant there. Japanese are more like Russian/Northern Europe.

    Utu is angry when you criticize “American friendliness” – (and assigns this criticism as something Jewish, as all bad things must be for Utu).

    But problem of friendliness there, is that it is not meaning they like you (at least for foreigners). If people talk to you warmly and want to be your friends, that would be cool. But if they talk to you so warmly, and then don’t want to be your friends?

    People working there, are finding it difficult to meet friends in America. America – obviously a great country in various ways, but social life is what people say is difficult when they move there. So, quite different to superficial impressions.

  259. DFH says:
    @utu

    Lope de Vega wrote over 1500 plays and 500 hundreds survived but nobody knows much about it. And Shakespeare is being pushed down the throats in every culture generation after generation.

    I studied Lope de Vega, de la Barca and Molina in Spanish at school, and they do not even come close to Shakespeare in depth. Most of the plays (a few exceptions like La Vida es sueno, which have other flaws, aside) are incredibly shallow. The poetry of that period is similarly prissy and insufferable.

    • Replies: @Anon
  260. DFH says:
    @Epigon

    Spain in 16th and 17th century was a unique culture where Military Career was most prestigious

    Pretty embarassing that they lost so much then

  261. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    I’m not sure how effective a graph, however much trust we may happen to place in it, showing German accomplishment over the years 1400-1950 as roughly equal to British, (and mentioning in the description that Germany as a nation did not exist until the nineteenth century) can be as a refutation of the quoted text in your comment.

  262. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    I studied Lope de Vega, de la Barca and Molina in Spanish at school, and they do not even come close to Shakespeare in depth.

    One wonders whether the problem is with you, or with Lope de Vega. I can be agnostic on this question, not having read L de V.

    • Replies: @utu
  263. songbird says:
    @Talha

    I never thought of it until this instant, but your use of the word “brother” is interesting.

    As a Christian, in a figurative sense, the word primarily would mean how monks address one another. Perhaps, it was used differently and more universally to describe almost any male Christians earlier in the Church’s history – I’m not sure. As an American, I’m sure you know, it is also a terminology that black men use to speak of each other to promote ethnic identity.

    I am really quite generally ignorant of Islamic customs. No monks, are there? I had the passing thought that the NoI might have influenced the terminology of more orthodox American-Muslims. But that can’t be right, can it? Would you say that it is a standard term used overseas? Like among most of the faithful in Pakistan?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Talha
  264. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird

    “Brethren” is a common term of address used in the New Testament and in the Mass (at the Orate fratres). I would guess the Muslims picked it up from us.

    • Replies: @Talha
  265. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Thank you for the excellent input!

    interpreted with special regard to religious feeling, punished by the Indian Penal Code.

    And this is how certain Hanafi jurists would also interpret limitations on language of offense; they considered that a Muslim could be punished for saying things like “O Enemy of God” or such statements to a dhimmi – again, see Imam Ibn Abidin’s compendium.

    Peace.

  266. Dmitry says:
    @DFH

    Karlin has a written a post some months ago – claiming that Cambridge University today has the same scientific publishing output as Russia.

    More than any other modern country except France.

    Russian perhaps has the largest contribution (at least with English and France) to fiction writing, in the second half of the 19th century, and there was even the “Russian craze” with some of the most famous English writers by beginning of the 20th century.

    https://www.russianartandculture.com/virginia-woolf-and-russian-literature/

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @melanf
    , @melanf
  267. Talha says:
    @Anon

    I would guess the Muslims picked it up from us.

    No, it is explicitly in the Qur’an:
    “The believers are but a brotherhood. Therefore, make peace between your brothers and observe your duty to Allah that perhaps you may obtain mercy.” (49:10)

    “Hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. Remember the favor of Allah upon you, when you were enemies and he brought your hearts together and you became brothers by his favor.” (3:103)

    And numerous hadith, like:
    “Beware of suspicion, for suspicion is the most false of speech. Do not seek out faults, do not spy on each other, do not contend with each other, do not envy each other, do not hate each other, and do not turn away from each other. Rather, be servants of Allah as brothers.” – reported in Bukhari

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  268. @Mikel

    You are also the center of the Germanic group of countries that shaped the modern world.

    There is no “Germanic group of countries”. Scandinavians are remote and tbh irrelevant in the big picture, and the Danes certainly do resent Germany for WW2 (don’t know about Norwegians). The same applies to the Dutch. I’ve already mentioned that the Swiss can’t stand German immigrants. Britain probably doesn’t even regard itself as “Germanic” these days, and in any case has a strongly anti-German public discourse. That pretty much leaves only Austria.
    Germany isn’t at the center of anything, except geographically. There is no wider German civilization, no friendly related peoples, no Germany overseas. Much as it pains me to agree with a Polish Germanophobe like “Anon 2″, he’s right that Germany is a failed civilization.

    It might take one or two centuries of peaceful coexistence until full trust is recovered.

    Germany won’t exist that long in any recognizable form.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Anon
    , @iffen
    , @melanf
    , @Hyperborean
  269. @Anon 2

    That’s one of the strangest things I’ve ever read on Unz review. Weirdly amusing though, if there’s ever an anthology of comments from here, your comments about languages and great civilizations need to be included.

    • Agree: AaronB
  270. Talha says:
    @songbird

    See my response to Anon.

    No monks, are there?

    No – monasticism is forbidden.

    But that can’t be right, can it?

    No.

    Would you say that it is a standard term used overseas? Like among most of the faithful in Pakistan?

    Yes, among practicing Muslims. Some places (that are heavily Sufi influenced, like North Africa) even use the term like Sidi (which is short for “Sayyidi”, “master”).

    Peace.

  271. DFH says:
    @Dmitry

    Russian perhaps has the largest contribution (at least with English and France) to fiction writing

    That seems reasonable to me, Russia has done especially well considering a very very late start.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  272. DFH says:
    @Mikel

    I unfortunately have a lot of experience of Chileans, and they have to be one of the most absurdly conceited (on the basis of virtually nothing) nations on earth.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @republic
    , @Mikel
  273. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Right, but under my interpretation, which I wouldn’t force on you but which I presumably share with “songbird”, those aren’t necessarily exclusive. At any rate you have answered his question, in that the use of the term is as old as Islam itself.

    But a corollary question (if that’s good English) is: do Muslims recognize any further gradations of the term besides actual brothers and the whole community of believers? Christians often will, in the sense that “songbird” pointed out, to refer to a collegial community within the general body of the Church.

    I don’t know if you read my reply on the other thread about Indian music? Germans are quite a musical people as well, both at the folk level and at the higher level; German Romanticism especially is directly compelling.

    • Replies: @Talha
  274. DFH says:
    @German_reader

    Britain probably doesn’t even regard itself as “Germanic” these days

    Britain is not very Germanic in any sense; racially even English people are less than 1/2 German, linguistically English is in fact very different from German, despite the common ancestry, historically Britain has had closer ties with France than with Germany, culturally our literature and art has been much more closely influenced by France and Italy and even temperamentally I think that we are not very similar to Germans.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @German_reader
  275. @Dmitry

    Well Italy has Mussolini for 20 years.

    Spain has Franco for almost 40 years.

    I don’t think they ever restricted travel though…if I understand correctly, it wasn’t easy to get out of the Soviet Union. There was of course still some academic and intellectual contact with European countries, but in a limited and controlled way.
    America is getting more secular now as well, but your basic point seems sensible to me…same about the difference between European and American cities (I suppose Russian cities are built around public transport as well, that’s indeed a European commonality then).
    Thanks for your reply, that was interesting.

  276. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Mussolini and Franco didn’t cut off intercourse in much of any sense.

    Mussolini if anything was eager to build contacts with America:

  277. Talha says:
    @Anon

    do Muslims recognize any further gradations of the term besides actual brothers and the whole community of believers?

    Of that term? No.

    But there are other terms to distinguish scholars or spiritual guides:
    Mawlana, Shaykh, Pir, Hazrat, Shehu, etc. – all varies with cultures and languages.

    Peace.

  278. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    Even in very minor respects, such as music, the English are completely different from the Germans. Chesterton points out: In this the Germans rather resemble the Welsh; though heaven knows what becomes of Teutonism if they do.

  279. Dmitry says:
    @DFH

    Late-starts can be beneficial.

    Tchaikovsky almost perfect timing, so his own work (technically, harmonically) would not have been possible if he arrived a couple decades earlier.

    Similarly Tolstoy’s born with almost perfect timing, for him to reach maturity just as novel as international art form is reaching its full capacities.

  280. @DFH

    Sure, but there was some pro-German sentiment in Britain in the 19th century due to the general emphasis on Anglo-Saxonism, the idea that the roots of English liberty could be traced back to the ancient Germanics, also to some extent still common Protestantism in opposition to Catholic Europe. But that’s all long gone of course.

  281. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    Russian perhaps has the largest contribution (at least with English and France) to fiction writing,

    The greatest contribution – music. “Fiction writing “(i.e.” serious ” novels from the school program a La Leo Tolstoy) is a shame of Russia.

  282. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    I don’t see much advantage of superficial friendliness, if they don’t actually want to be your friend.

    It is a weird system. In that it varies considerably. In the countryside, many people are genuinely friendly to strangers. This is less true by degrees as you go towards the city.

    I’ve always wondered if it had something to do with race because the country/city difference was partly a racial one. And the influence of cities radiates outward because people in the suburbs work in cities.

    • Replies: @Anon
  283. iffen says:
    @Talha

    I retract the accusation of the Jew-hating label. It’s not accurate.

    • Replies: @Talha
  284. @DFH

    Lack of competition in their remote corner of the world. They’re patting themselves on the back for not routinely collapsing their economy like the Argies. And of course they have their glorious military triumph over…Bolivia.

    • Replies: @DFH
  285. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Appreciate it – I will tell Hans he can put the posters back up…

    Kidding!
    Peace.

  286. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird

    Americans have an instinct against formal etiquette, so it is necessary to replace it by an “informal etiquette” of what would strike foreigners as rather overly effusive. But that’s not the case over all of America, which is a pretty big place.

    Racially: Blacks seem in general more effusive than whites, but they can also be much more surly and hostile. I’m not sure how that plays into the general American dynamics.

    “Minnesota nice” is real, not a show. “New York rudeness” is partly an affectation. People all over America, though you’re right, it’s truer in rural areas, will be genuinely helpful in general. Obviously there are many exceptions.

  287. DFH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    And of course they have their glorious military triumph over…Bolivia.

    They still make jokes about that to their Bolivian servants

  288. @Beckow

    I would also say that arguments of type: ‘you are stupid’, ‘no, you are‘, are not very productive. I outgrew it around my second year in kindergarden.

    Too bad that your understanding of Christianity appears to have remained at that level of sophistication. :P

    • Replies: @Beckow
  289. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    Danes resenting WWII shows they are still part of your cultural continuum, they just get to feel superior, like the Austrians but more so.
    That they’re not still resenting Schleswig-Holstein is a good sign.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  290. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    Germany isn’t at the center of anything, except geographically.

    You don’t think that the fact that many of us are descended from Germanic peoples means anything? Was the Holy Roman Empire of no significance to our history?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  291. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    Karlin has a written a post some months ago – claiming that Cambridge University today has the same scientific publishing output as Russia.

    Some factors should be considered
    anthropologist Stanislav Drobyshevsky
    With Russian anthropology as with all Russian science. On the one hand, the potential is huge, on the other – the possibilities are extremely limited. The level of our anthropological research is very high, especially in areas that do not require excessive technology. Not below the West. In rasovedenie, paleoanthropology, paleopathology we are the first place. However, the publications of our anthropologists are almost always published only in Russian, and only our people read them. Abroad, our anthropology is almost unknown, because Western journals do not accept our articles from principle, just because they are from Russia. The only way to publish our man in the West-to spend a lot of time there, to get acquainted with their experts, and then, personally writing an article, to give it to these professionals, putting himself not in the first or even second place in the list of authors. It is clear that this none of our wants. A vicious circle – in the West do not take to publish our articles, and therefore believe that we have no anthropology, and therefore do not take our articles. But on Russian, clear, not read… And this is against the background of sometimes very low-quality articles and obvious shoals in many Western articles and books…
    In short: we have a world level of research, but we give a scanty contribution to world science, because world science does not want to accept this contribution from us, except on slave terms, when all the glory goes to others, in which case again it sounds about American (or some other foreign) scientists, and our work goes unnoticed.

    It comes to the absurd: six years ago, a group of Russian scientists discovered on the island of Socotra traces of Olduvai culture that disappeared on the continent 1.4 million years ago. There is the oldest finding of human footprints in the isolated archipelago. It would seem that the world scientific community is waiting for a discussion: were Homo erectus seafarers or unknown to geologists way archipelago at such a great distance from the shore could still connect with land. One could expect publication in journals of the top five, and then-the growing wave of citations in other scientific journals. As the reader has already guessed, no publications (outside of Russia), nor mention the discoveries in scientific journals followed. As a result, not all the Western scientific community is aware of this discovery.

  292. @German_reader

    So do I. Germany is almost done.

  293. @Dmitry

    Utu is angry when you criticize “American friendliness” – (and assigns this criticism as something Jewish, as all bad things must be for Utu).

    He’s not entirely wrong.

    • Replies: @iffen
  294. iffen says:
    @RadicalCenter

    If you think America doesn’t have fine wine and cuisine

    Hail Yeah!

    Mad Dog 20/20 and Mickey Ds.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  295. iffen says:
    @Buster Keaton's Stunt Double

    Alert! The Jew-haters quota had been exceeded. You will have to re-apply at the next session.

  296. republic says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Non Hispanic white population is now 56%

  297. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Convince the Pakistanis to change to a more flexible interpretation as I outlined above.

    Wow! Excellent! And right on time – a very relevant tweet was sent out by Shaykh Abdullah Hamid Ali, who I follow, today that he will be speaking on a panel on this very topic (with Sh. Amin Kholwadia – awesome!!!); changing the current blasphemy laws of Pakistan in light of classical differences of opinion and the difficulty arising in application of laws in the nation-state model that are borrowed from the age of empire:

    https://www.religiousfreedominstitute.org/rfievents/islamic-law-the-nation-state-and-the-case-of-pakistan

    Also it references a paper by Br. Ismail Royer, an excellent analysis of the subject:

    https://hcommons.org/deposits/objects/hc:20552/datastreams/CONTENT/content

    If one does not want to read the whole thing, I would recommend reading the intro and the conclusion (p 46) – I completely agree with the recommendations!

    Hopefully they will publish a recording on youtube.

    Peace.

  298. republic says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Chinese are the worst tourists in the world

  299. melanf says:
    @German_reader

    There is no wider German civilization, no friendly related peoples, no Germany overseas.

    Well, “the Russian Germans”, although they are in significant part the descendants of German-speaking Swiss, identify themselves with Germany (and, as far as I know, never with Switzerland)

    • Replies: @German_reader
  300. republic says:
    @iffen

    Last census was in 1932!

  301. republic says:
    @DFH

    Argentinians are very arrogant

    • Replies: @DFH
  302. @iffen

    I was thinking mostly of the present…I don’t see how “Germanic” today means much, apart from being a language family. The concept is of course also tarnished by the Nazi interpretation of it.

    Was the Holy Roman Empire of no significance to our history?

    Well, it did of course play some role for Germany’s immediate neighbors (the Czechs especially) and for medieval Italy before 1250, but on the whole its significance to general European history seems limited to me…it’s not like the claims to imperial preeminence were uncontested even during the high Middle ages, and later on such claims were simply a joke. I don’t think it plays much of a role in the historical perception of most Europeans (except sometimes in a negative way as a basis for national myths, e.g. the defeat of Barbarossa at the battle of Legnano for Italians, especially Northern Italians; the name of Salvini’s Lega party was of course originally meant as an allusion to the city league which fought Barbarossa, the Lega Lombarda)…except maybe as an example for an ineffective polity?
    But anyway, I’m not complaining…I don’t need any special importance or misssion for Germany, I just would like not to see it dissolved before my eyes.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @notanon
  303. Sean says:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2017/09/what-britain-needs-understand-about-profound-and-ancient-divisions-germany Long-contested frontier lands breed a special kind of society. The German incomers cowed the natives, such as the pagan Pruscie from whom they ultimately borrowed their name, through brute force. Where they couldn’t, they had to make armed deals with local elites. In this new sort-of-Germany, the Junkers, an aggressive landowning caste, lorded it over the Slavs and Balts – as well as poorer Germans, who knew that the locals would cut their throats if the Junker castles fell, so were loyal and subservient to their masters. East Prussia remained like this within living memory. [...] Since 1990, the former East Germany has received more than €2trn from the old West Germany, for a fast-ageing, shrinking and disproportionately male population of only 16 million, including Berlin. That’s the equivalent of a Greek bailout every year since 1990, and as a straight gift, not a loan. This represents a huge shift in financial priorities, overshadowing Germany’s annual net EU budget contribution (currently €15.5bn). In 1990, Kohl promised that western German aid would soon turn the new states into “blooming” areas, but they have become, instead, proof that age-old differences resist even the most gigantic subsidies. …

    All very much as predicted by Gunnar Heinsohn

    https://www.trykkefrihed.dk/interview-a-continent-of-losers.htm
    Here some of the ‘ethno-Germans’, as we are now beginning to call them, and who make up 85 per cent of the German population, are starting to emigrate. Annually about 150 000 Germans leave the country, most of them for the Anglo-Saxon world. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are ready to receive 1.5 million well-educated immigrants yearly, and they are doing everything to ease the way for them.”

    “It is no wonder that young, hard-working people in France and Germany choose to emigrate. It is not just that they have to support their own ageing population. If we take 100 20-year-olds, then the 70 Frenchmen and Germans also have to support 30 immigrants of their own age and their offspring. This creates dejection in the local population, particularly in France, Germany and the Netherlands. So they run away.”

    East Elbia no longer has the population to swing the entire German electorate of more than 61 million but many liberal western Germans are nervous.

    The liberal accomplished people in the West German electorate will leave and West Germany will converge with the East. Merkel is from the East (just as someone better left unmentioned was from Austria)

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSf-D8GbTOz_Ze6i_vUmXIXV-Eqk8jymxLJsb5htHXJ8V_aUkQ

    • Replies: @German_reader
  304. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    It is fake friendliness.

    Fine. It is fake for you. You have no use for it. You prefer genuine rudeness of Soviet or Russian any time.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  305. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    Well, if you can’t think of anything , I don’t know why you should be crying in your beer over its passing.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @German_reader
  306. @iffen

    Or some of the best wines in the world, and some of the best Italian, French, and Asian restaurants in the world.

    I did my share of cheap alcohol and crappy fast food back in the day. But that didn’t mean that better quality and healthier options weren’t all around us.

    • Replies: @iffen
  307. @melanf

    My understanding is that most Russian Germans are gone now or have been completely assimilated into Russian society. Tbh most of the Russian Germans who came to Germany seem heavily Russified to me (and sometimes mixed with other ethnicities as well…there was one at my secondary school whose surname I assume to be some sort of Iranian); there were quite a few at my elementary school in the early 1990s, and at least for a time they were educated in separate classes, because they had to learn German and didn’t know any at all (I know this might sound dubious, almost like some kind of segregation; and in hindsight I’m not sure if this was always handled that well).
    Their forced exile to Kazakhstan during the Stalin era probably wasn’t really conducive to their wellbeing as a community.

    • Replies: @melanf
  308. DFH says:
    @republic

    At least they have a nicer accent

  309. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    Well, f*** you and D. and the horses your rode in on. Now, how’s that for friendliness?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AaronB
  310. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Dammit – I’m sick of this German pessimism! I’m warning you – don’t make us make janissaries out of the Germanic race and use them to take over the world just to prove you guys wrong!!!

    Peace.

  311. utu says:
    @Anon

    His extreme anglo-chauvinism has the same roots as ‘Anon 2′ Anglophilia though he is saner which only makes it worse.

  312. notanon says:
    @Dmitry

    I don’t see much advantage of superficial friendliness, if they don’t actually want to be your friend.

    “agreeableness” makes cooperation between strangers easier which creates greater synergy

    imo it’s a big part of the relative success of NW Euros over the last 500 years

    it has a fatal flaw now that agreeableness is being manipulated by a hostile elite.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Dmitry
  313. iffen says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Right, we are untouchable in making choices available to the common man, the mass consumer culture, and that is what these ‘Murica haters are jealous of. That doesn’t mean that there is not a superior level.

  314. @Sean

    The New Statesman article is some seriously dumb shit, the usual demonological nonsense one can expect from Britons writing about Germany.

    why we may all have to stop taking Germany quite so much for granted now that East Elbia is back

    Yeah sure, only a matter of time till the spiked helmets come back.
    “East Elbia” and “Prussia” of course don’t exist anymore, with much of their territory now being Polish or Russian.
    And it’s deeply misguided to regard the former East Germany as just a continuation of some despotical junker-dominated Prussia. One of its most important parts, Saxony, was historically anti-Prussian, had its own king until 1918, and was a centre of industry and the workers’ movement.
    Thuringia doesn’t really fit the profile of “East Elbia” either (even though parts of it were ruled by Prussia after 1815…but the same applies to the Rhineland).

    In eastern Europe, perhaps because Russia is so close, the Germans are rarely made to feel guilty for their grandfathers’ sins.

    I guess that’s why Poland is bringing up WW2 reparations again (one spokesman of the Polish government recently suggested Germany could pay them in installments for the next 100 years).
    Funny how they bring up those nationalist Russian bikers (the Night wolves), just to raise the spectre of Molotov-Ribbentropp 2.0.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @iffen
    , @Sean
  315. notanon says:

    i’ve always thought of the English as half-germanic and half-celtic – which iirc fits the modern genetic analysis

  316. @iffen

    I despair over its passing because it’s my nation and I have no other…national or historical greatness is unimportant for that.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @iffen
  317. @German_reader

    Wikipedia actually has a semi-interesting article about the complex territorial make-up of Thuringia before 1918:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuringian_states

  318. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader

    Buck up. Take a cue from the Poles:

    Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła,
    Kiedy my żyjemy!

    Or from the Jews or Armenians. Or from the Spaniards.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  319. @Thorfinnsson

    Which Englishman is being referred to here? The typical English genotype has close to nil DNA from eastern Poland..

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/generation-zyklon-in-sweden/?highlight=Grandfather#comment-2347371

    Anyway about half of Germany’s population of foreigners is from Europe, Ukraine, Russia, the US etc. so the 42% of children under six are unlikely to be all Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis. A little surprised Germany managed to avoid having Somali migration.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  320. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    I despair over its passing because it’s my nation and I have no other…national or historical greatness is unimportant for that.

    Then you have no greater claim than any other dickhead in the world. Your nation is no more important than any other. Whether is comes or goes is of no importance or interest.

    • Replies: @Nznz
  321. notanon says:
    @German_reader

    I don’t see how “Germanic” today means much,

    i think certain northern traits, both cultural and genetic (e.g. marriage culture) which had evolved to suit the colder northern environment came south during the collapse of Rome (in a similar way to how desert traits, including marriage culture, traveled north out of Arabia later) and those traits were the foundation of later western Euro success.

  322. iffen says:
    @notanon

    is being manipulated by a hostile elite.

    What! Who are they? Tell us!

    • Replies: @notanon
  323. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anon 2

    A sine qua non condition of a great civilization is beauty because beauty is
    truth and truth is beauty.

    So do you really think the U.S. has excelled in that area?

  324. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anon 2

    I think that England and America created other things that were important
    to women, e.g., great literature, and being rich, could import fine wines, fabrics

    If you have to import things of beauty because you can’t create them yourself then aren’t you a kind of parasite culture rather than a great culture?

    • Replies: @iffen
  325. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    I am very disappointed with the quality of your recent comments. I really feel let down.

    • Replies: @Anon
  326. I would guess most German emigration is to other German-speaking countries, the Benlux region and Spain and Portugal for retirees. The Anglosphere is too chaotic and informal except for those expressly wishing to escape the formality and coldness of German society, Few Germans could abide the British transport system and NHS. Central and Eastern Europe with the exception of maybe Prague would be too backward for the west Germans. I think the Netherlands has a large German diaspora which makes sense as it is a halfway house between the UK and Germany plus it is pretty close to home.

  327. @Ali Choudhury

    A little surprised Germany managed to avoid having Somali migration.

    No, we have them (even if in “limited” numbers so far):

    https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/-/568094

    Officially there are close to 41 000 Somalis in Germany (in 2008 it was apparently just 5000).
    They’re often in the news for really horrible crimes like gang rapes or murders; e.g. back in 2016 a Somali entered a nursing home, sexually assaulted a bedridden old man, then beat his 87-year old wife to death; this year in August a Somali entered a doctor’s office, then stabbed the doctor to death while his 10-year old daughter was watching…
    Nice people to have around!

  328. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @iffen

    Well, nobody’s forcing you to read them…

    But if you feel let down it means that, to you at least, German_Reader really did have a special mission and a certain significance. So maybe if you expand on that he won’t be so depressed and will go back to writing better comments.

  329. notanon says:
    @iffen

    Bloomberg, Zuckerberg, Soros, the other more faceless members of the banking mafia etc – the people funding politicians to support open borders and paying the wages of the thousands of media folk inciting anti-white violence every day

    self-evident really

  330. iffen says:
    @dfordoom

    If you have to import things of beauty because you can’t create them yourself then aren’t you a kind of parasite culture rather than a great culture?

    Not really, you could be Rome carting away everything movable from Greece.

  331. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Like most people I prefer friendliness. Problem in America (I have not lived in America or really known Americans – this is what people have said to me), is apparently it’s actually difficult to socialize or become friends with Americans. Fake friendliness is there, but not so much real friendliness.

    People not hanging after work, socializing for hours, etc.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AP
    , @utu
    , @Mikel
  332. Dmitry says:
    @notanon

    This is American characteristic though. It’s different to Europe.

    Well, in Europe, so many variations. Rudeness to strangers can happen quite badly in France, less in Spain.

    But then, in Spain – the North, especially Basque Country, famous for rudeness, while other areas like Andalusia, are famous for friendliness to strangers.

    The problem I have heard about living in America, is that’s it’s superficially friendly, but difficult to have friends, at least for non-Americans.

    I would wonder what are the causes:
    Physical distance between people?
    People very self-contained and independent?
    Workholism?

    • Replies: @notanon
  333. notanon says:
    @Dmitry

    is that’s it’s superficially friendly, but difficult to have friends,

    i thought that was supposed to be a general anglo (NW Euro) trait?

    “agreeableness” as a social lubricant for work-related activities which vanishes afterwards when people head home – confusing to outsiders maybe?

  334. Yevardian says:
    @Dmitry

    This is a serious problem adjusting to for an Eastern European, the sheer insincerity of people’s friendliness causes one to make many, many misjudgements about people’s intentions and attitudes early on.

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @Dmitry
    , @notanon
  335. AaronB says:
    @iffen

    Such an American reaction :)

  336. notanon says:
    @Yevardian

    yes i can see how it could really confuse people who don’t know it’s just a way of smoothing cooperation

  337. Sean says:
    @German_reader

    I did not think AK was being entirely serious. Much of what Merkel is trying to do suggests she thinks Germany could have a rerun of the 30′s. However, Rhinish Barvaria had been occupied by the French who attempted to foster separatist moments. Things like that, the Communists and Hitler’s masterful decision not to participatewith the Communists in the national strike the Wiemar government called off in September 1923 (whereupon Hitler mounted the Beer Hall Putch) helped what was then regarded as merely the Bavarian Fascisti get of the ground in all Germany. Anyway when all is said and done Germany was encircled by enemies in 1939 and in 1914, now Germany is cocooned within friendly countries on all borders. Poland wants German money, and Poland is losing its best people even faster than Germany.

    According to the late Robert Gayre, “the Elbe is a pronounced ethnographic frontier “ Merkel is from the other side of the Elbe, or Hajnal line if you prefer, and West Germany is bearing the brunt of her decisions. Affluent West Germans paid for the incorporation of the East and for the single currency and now they are going to have to pay extra for the immigrants. I think the achieving part of the reproducing West German ethnoGerman population is going to disappear much faster than has been realised, because it is those with young families who will leave.

  338. AaronB says:

    Seriously iffen have you learned nothing from my Buddhist sermons.

    The great secret of life is to take it all lightly – in war, in love, business. You take it lightly.

    Otherwise you are just an American :)

    • Replies: @iffen
  339. Dmitry says:
    @Yevardian

    Although fairly, Americans living in Russia, will probably be equally confused.

    Every nationality has these kinds of differences, which no-one seems to notice before you meet them.

    I have some Spanish colleagues, who are some of the most friendly colleagues. Something strange I notice suddenly (after more than a year) is they don’t understand sarcasm in any ways. Everytime trying to say something sarcastic, and they think it’s a serious statement.

  340. Nznz says: • Website
    @iffen

    I suppose you could say the same for Israel or the Temple Mount being nuked?

    • Replies: @iffen
  341. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    Dmitry, America is a Puritan culture. Socializing and enjoying oneself is vaguely sinful, it does not help you amass wealth which is the only way you can know god loves you, nor does it help you extend the reach of technology, which lets you dominate nature and God gave you to command.

    Americans are perpetually “on the way” to some shining future, the Heavenly City, the true heirs to Europe’s millenarian tradition – there simply is no time for friends, culture, or genuine spirituality.

    Happiness is always “tomorrow”, and for the moment there is only hustling, competing, and striving.

    Friendship is one of the great pleasures of life, recognized as early as the Epicureans as one of man’s supreme pleasures – there is no way Americans have time for it.

    There are some exceptions to this in places like New York (partially), which are heavily European and international in character, and not really American. But even in such places, there is a substratum of the American mentality you can’t get away from.

    This is the kind of place America is, simply.

    Perhaps it’s OK that this vast world has at least one place dedicated to this dismal way of life – and those who enjoy this kind of thing, or more accurately, are incapable of enjoyment, should make haste and come to America. You will find your place.

    Other types of people should leave America, if this is not the kind if life you’re after.

    Anyways, after the coming collapse, and with all the immigration, America won’t be the same kind of place.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Anon
  342. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    is apparently it’s actually difficult to socialize or become friends with Americans.

    America cultivates culture where it is easy to make “light” friendships but more difficult to have “deep” friendships. For example even in grade school they pursue a deliberate policy of breaking up friendships by sending close friends to new classes every year (where they will no longer see their best friends). We complained about this to teachers and were told that it’s important for kids to learn how to make new friends. Of course having new “best friends” every year throughout grade school is not the same as having the same close group of friends from age 5 until age 18.*

    It’s the sort of place that helps people to live nomadic lifestyles, being transferred from place to place, finding new professional and personal frontiers and getting along well with new neighbors and coworkers.

    Fake friendliness

    It is sincere not fake, only not very deep. Friendliness is genuine and people really mean well and will help strangers, more so than do ex-Soviets. But they do not have as close or intimate friendships as Eastern Europeans do. It is common to watch football, or play poker, or have fun at a bar with American friends, but baring one’s soul to them as Russians or Ukrainians or Poles do at the table, would be seen as weird or gay.

    There is an expression – a good friend will help you move, but a really good help will help you move a body. In comparison to Eastern Europeans, Americans will be more likely to help more people whom they know lightly to move, but less likely to move bodies for their friends.

    I wonder how it is with Latin people?

    *This is different in small towns but most Americans were not raised in small towns

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Anon
  343. AP says:
    @AaronB

    There are some exceptions to this in places like New York (partially)

    New York is too rootless to have real friendships, everyone is from somewhere else. Small towns (not suburbs) are a different story.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @AaronB
  344. notanon says:
    @Yevardian

    i don’t know for sure if this is true everywhere but i’d say the general rule among the NW Euro diaspora is you’re rude to your actual friends and polite to everyone else – it’s weird to me now i think of it but being rude to your friends is how you show you’re friends.

  345. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    New York is international but not remotely European. The New York culture was a strange mix of Anglo-Protestant, Jewish, and Irish, with some other Catholic European influences (notably Italian, obviously), but that is changing, though Jewish-American culture is still probably the dominant note at least of the “smart set”. It’s neither like a Northern European city nor a Southern, nor even like an Eastern when some Polish cities were heavily Jewish.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  346. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP

    It was possible in the old ethnic neighborhoods. It may still be, I don’t know.

  347. AaronB says:
    @AP

    New York is interesting in that it is at once the epicenter of the soulless hustling culture and pretentious snob culture (of all stripes, artistic, literary, underground hipster), while at the same being one of the few places in America that also attracts people from all over the world who are not imprisoned by these values.

    There may be a strange symbiotic relationship between centers of money and free spirits to some extent. But I do notice ny is getting duller each year. The fragile ecosystem is breaking down.

    Rootless cosmopolitan need love too :)

    Small towns may be better, I don’t know. Many of the one a you drive through seem soulless, but may be there are some good ones.

  348. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    The past decade saw a massive influx of Europeans and their culture and food. Good European cheese and butter are everywhere whereas in 2007 only some specialty stores carried them. Every time I go to s bar I meet Europeans.

    But of course it isn’t a European city, it is a hybrid and something eclectic and its own thing in the end. But its very European influenced.

    • Replies: @Anon
  349. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Every time I go to s bar I meet Europeans.

    This will depend on what bars you go to. Depending on where you go you might run into a lot of Ukrainians or Romanians, for instance (I wonder if you know which bars I mean…)

    Good European cheese and butter are everywhere whereas in 2007 only some specialty stores carried them.

    Well, that’s a plus. Must be expensive, though, surely?

    But its very European influenced.

    Well, yeah.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  350. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    how it is with Latin people?

    Spanish (North Spanish) colleagues, told me everyone is supposed to make something called “cuadrilla” (gang/squad). This is 4 closest friends from childhood, which are supposed to be family for the whole life.

    They are not allowed to invite another person to even go out for a night with your gang, unless there is permission from all other gang members.

    So, in a way – a very closed situation. But most nights, they are not socializing with gang.

  351. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    Actually, a lot of the fancy European cheeses are reasonably priced. Believe it or not, there have sprung up some craft American cheesemakers who produce incredibly complex cheeses that are even better than the Europeans, but are actually exorbitantly priced. For craft cheese, the European ones are cheap :)

    I’m not talking about special ethnic bars, but regular bars in trendy areas of Brooklyn or Manhattan – tons of Euros.

    • Replies: @Anon
  352. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    The Ukro-and-Romanian-frequented bars I was thinking of were in what might be regarded as a trendy part of Manhattan. I generally don’t frequent places all that trendy, though, when I’m even in NYC anymore, so you’re probably right.

    Interesting about cheese. You could always get good Italian cheese, but yeah, the food scene is better than it was (and this is true elsewhere too), not that I’m much of a gourmet.

  353. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    ‘this is what people have said to me’

    Exactly. I have heard it myself. This comes from bias perception of immigrants because they compare the well know environment form the past where they had established contacts which later often they idealize to what they encounter in the US where after all they are just the fucking immigrants. What do they expect? Do they think they are great conversationalist with their broken English and heavy accents and American s are diving to meet them? And in Europe it is even worse because Europeans are less friendly and less open to strangers whether foreigners or not. It is much harder to be invited to somebody’s home in France than in the US. In Europe people form strong relationships early in lives like in schools and universities and their social class After that it is rare to open up for new ‘real’ friendship.

    So how many new friedships did you make in Russia recently? You did not because you have the old friends so you do not need new friends. But in American you would be needy and walking around like a hungry ghost looking for friends and then would complain that they are not like the friends you had in Saratov.

    In American people stay open throughout their lives to new friendships. This might be because the country was huge and sparse and people were mobile and they had to keep developing friendships anew in new places to function. This included the fucking immigrants who learned this way the American way and became Americans.

    Then there is this false dichotomy you create of fake/genuine friends. What is a genuine friend for a Russian? What degree of intimacy do you expect? Drinking gallons of vodka together? Throwing up together to the same toilet bowl? Swapping wives in drunken stupor? Russian sense of closeness and intimacy is different. In every country it is different.

    It really gets on my nerve when somebody who comes to America visit his bother or cousin in LA for few weeks and then he thinks he is going to be a new fucking Tocqueville.

    • Agree: Matra
    • LOL: Talha
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  354. @RadicalCenter

    If you think America doesn’t have fine wine and cuisine, you aren’t trying hard at all. What country are you even talking about? Not the one where I live.

    I’m curious – do you have some examples?

    • Replies: @Anon
  355. Mikel says:
    @DFH

    …Chileans…

    I lived over a decade among them and it’s actually worse than that. But I don’t want expand on this and depart from the original topic of this thread: das Deutscheproblem.

    Incidentally, one thing that may (or may not) give german_reader some consolation is that Latin Americans’ admiration of Germans knows hardly any bounds. In the Chilean case it reaches levels of fetishism. It is usually very easy to know if a Chilean has any German ancestor: they will let you know. They may look as Indian as Sitting Bull but if their grandpa happened to be one of those Germans that, God knows why, emigrated to Chile in the 19th century, you’re most likely to learn about it sooner rather than later.

    In general terms, if you look “gringo” (European) you’ll be regarded as someone special and expected to be upper class by default. But if you happen to be German you’ll get deferential, aristocratic treatment. And no, they don’t care if you have any Nazi connection. If anything, that adds value to the product. No book stall (still very common in those latitudes) will fail to have a more or less dodgy copy of “Mi Lucha” (Mein Kampf).

    • Replies: @utu
  356. Mikel says:
    @Dmitry

    apparently it’s actually difficult to socialize or become friends with Americans

    I have spent the past few years surrounded by Mormons in a more or less rural setting of the West so my experience may not be all that representative but I have never met any more friendly people anywhere in the world. Real friendship, like in getting their hands dirty to help you, an atheist foreigner, renovate your house and settle down in their midst.

    • Replies: @iffen
  357. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hyperborean

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Paris_(wine)

    https://www.brennansneworleans.com/

    https://www.rasikarestaurant.com/

    https://lidiasitaly.com/restaurants/

    I’m not really a gourmet, but that’s just a random start. The US is a big place, lots of variety here and some of anything to choose from. Maine lobsters, for instance– not my favorite, but they are popular the world over and they are best in Maine.


    From an American writer, Rex Stout, in the persona of Nero Wolfe

  358. utu says:
    @Mikel

    Self esteem improvement seminars and retreats for Germans in Chile?

  359. melanf says:
    @German_reader

    My understanding is that most Russian Germans are gone now or have been completely assimilated into Russian society.

    It is.
    Historically, Russian Germans consisted of three groups: German nobles (most from Baltic ) who served in the army and Navy, merchants/artisans/teachers who settled in cities and peasants who received land in the 18th century (mainly on the Volga). The first two groups were completely assimilated long ago (or disappeared during the civil war). The third group (peasants), because of their way of life, preserved their language and culture for a long time. Modern “Russian Germans” are the descendants of these peasants. The irony of fate is that their ancestors in large part (maybe even for the most part) were not Germans from the future of Germany, but the Swiss (there were also a number of Dutch sectarians). But for Russian officials they were all just Germans, so in the end they associate themselves exclusively with Germany. If (hypothetically) officials in the 18th century had defined these peasants as “Swiss,” perhaps they would have avoided deportation (and their descendants would have considered themselves ” Russian Swiss”).

    Today, of course, resettlement in the city made assimilation inevitable
    Women in Russia married by nationality
    Germans – 74.5% Russian, 13.8% Germans, 1.8% Tatars
    Tatar – 69,8% Tatars, 20.6% Russian, 4.7% Bashkirs
    Georgian – 57.9% Georgians, 24.6% Russian, 5.0% Ossetians, 4.5% Armenians
    Bashkir – 67.6% Bashkirs, 17.4% Tatars, 11.5% Russian
    Koreans — 69.9% of Koreans, 22,6% Russian, 1.2% of Ukrainians, and 1.0% Tatars
    Armenian – 87.8% Armenian, 9.1% Russian

    because they had to learn German and didn’t know any at all

    But at the same time they (in Russia at least) are very large Germanophiles (in the sense of love to German history and culture, not love for Mrs. Merkel). The more educated part of the “Germans” often learns German

    Their forced exile to Kazakhstan during the Stalin era probably wasn’t really conducive to their wellbeing as a community

    Sure, but even without deportation (which was of course a nefarious affair) they would have been assimilated. In the Volga German Republic (before 1941) the number of Germans was decreasing absolutely and relatively (due to relocation to big cities), and their total number was too small (about 360 000)

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @German_reader
  360. @Dmitry

    What is this “Jewish enclave”? It’s a religious one.

    There are only two requirements for being Jewish: a) rejecting Christ, and b) belief in Jewish racial supremacy. The vast majority of Jews are atheists, and that is not a contradiction.

    Church attendance has been falling since its peak in early 1990s.

    If you were Russian, then you’d know that “attending Church” is a sacrilege. A church is not a theater or social club. Christians are supposed to partake in the Sacraments, not ‘attend Church’.

    Outside some inner-city Jewish hipster enclaves, in the rest of Russia the Church is the only institution that has any real power or influence.

    Don’t be surprised when this truth finally hits you. Jews are masters of self-delusion, but eventually reality must catch up, and it will be painful.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @Dmitry
  361. Mitleser says:
    @Anon

    That they’re not still resenting Schleswig-Holstein is a good sign.

    What should they resent? They won in the end, despite a near-total defeat in the 19the century.

    • Replies: @Anon
  362. Mitleser says:
    @Anon

    Or from the Spaniards.

    What exactly?

    The Iberian nation were created by the Reconquista.
    The Kingdom of the Visigothics, the ones who were successfully invaded did not survive.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  363. What should they resent? They won in the end, despite a near-total defeat in the 19the century.

    It was a momentous loss for a by then small country, and I think there is also the factor that it was felt to have been a ‘dishonourable’ war.

    But people’s opinion on the 1864 war was/is not necessarily linked to their opinions of Germans.

  364. iffen says:
    @Nznz

    I suppose you could say the same for Israel

    No, the Israelis care. They believe that they are different and that difference is worth preserving.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  365. iffen says:
    @Mikel

    Yeah. Cannibals fatten up the main course as well.

    • LOL: AaronB
  366. iffen says:
    @melanf

    If (hypothetically) officials in the 18th century had defined these peasants as “Swiss,” perhaps they would have avoided deportation (and their descendants would have considered themselves ” Russian Swiss”).

    Maybe Russians should have defined Ukrainians as Russians at an earlier date; we might have avoided the current ambiguous and sticky situation.

  367. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer my Gods to be in the image of man.

  368. Anon 2 says:

    So I may have recently dropped a bit too much acid.
    Microdosing with LSD (latest craze among the young techie
    guys in Silicon Valley) can be tricky. Look guys, I’ve never made
    a secret of who I am. I’m an old ‘60s guy of the “Make love not war”
    variety. Most people on this blog are “Might is Right” Social Darwinists
    so I don’t expect to make any converts.

    As you begin spending significant amounts of time in an expanded
    (or altered) state of consciousness, all your values undergo a trans-
    valuation of values, to borrow Nietzsche’s term. Aesthetic values become
    front and center if only because you’re suddenly surrounded by so much
    beauty (your perceptual field becomes suffused with it). I had a little
    fun applying the aesthetic criteria to languages, in part because everyone
    here is so serious, if not depressed. But due to the growing legalization of
    marijuana in the U.S., more people are spending time in (mildly) altered
    states, and so it’s very likely that the aesthetic criteria which I championed
    here will be applied to everything in sight, incl. cultures and even
    civilizations – soft power will slowly begin to challenge military power.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Dmitry
    , @AaronB
  369. @Anon 2

    So – the future belongs to those who don’t do drugs?

  370. Anon[330] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP

    Perhaps hardship has helped Eastern Europeans value depth over breadth in friendships.

    As a “Latin”, I too have noticed the friendliness of Americans, and then comes the point where it somehow doesn’t go deeper. It is an activity-oriented friendship. So we go on vacations with them. Honest, decent and very agreeable, they make wonderful travel companions. We particularly like the southern gentlemanly type.

    For us, family and friends are paramount. One needs the long lunches and the long conversations. A new friend is only really a friend when they’ve told you about family woes and invited you to their home. People you see only in public places are considered acquaintances.

    One learns to trust and to forgive since you’re in it for the long run. Significantly, one learns to appreciate one’s friends warts and all. Errands are easier to run with a friend, businesses less stressful. It is easier to be open to new friendships when you have good friends, though there’s always time constraints. Human nature remains constant of course, there’s envy, rivalry, cronyism and so on, but I’d say in general “latins” sacrifice a lot to build family bonds and value long-lasting groups of good friends.

    • Replies: @AP
  371. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mitleser

    You could say the same thing about WWII though.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
  372. Mitleser says:
    @Anon

    What do you mean?

    • Replies: @Anon
  373. melanf says:
    @anonymous coward

    If you were Russian, then you’d know that “attending Church” is a sacrilege. A church is not a theater or social club. Christians are supposed to partake in the Sacraments, not ‘attend Church’.
    Outside some inner-city Jewish hipster enclaves in the rest of Russia the Church is the only institution that has any real power or influence.

    O_o, now I know two things:

    1)It turns out I’m not Russian.

    2)I live in the Jewish hipster enclaves (St. Petersburg). In general, any place in Russia that I visited is Jewish hipster enclaves

    • LOL: Dmitry
  374. Dmitry says:
    @anonymous coward

    Another day, it seems, that you forgot to take your medications.

    There are only two requirements for being Jewish: a) rejecting Christ, and b) belief in Jewish racial supremacy. The vast majority of Jews are atheists, and that is not a contradiction.

    No, requirement for being Jewish, is to be born from Jewish maternal grandmother, or to conversion by rabbi.

    Views on racial supremacy, nationalism, or Jesus, are not their criteria.

    If you were Russian, then you’d know that “attending Church” is a sacrilege.

    Are you the same guy who was writing that going to restaurant is gay? It sounds like you literally, have never been in Russia.

    Argue with archpriests.

    https://www.facebook.com/andrey.lorgus/posts/1486605564791872

    Christians are supposed to partake in the Sacraments, not ‘attend Church’.

    Outside some inner-city Jewish hipster enclaves, in the rest of Russia the Church is the only institution that has any real power or influence.

    Again argue with the archpriest .

    https://www.facebook.com/andrey.lorgus/posts/1486605564791872

    Don’t be surprised when this truth finally hits you. Jews are masters of self-delusion, but eventually reality must catch up, and it will be painful.

    Comment appears to be written about yourself.

  375. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Well, it’s a fair comment, quite witty to read.

    I’m not expert on America. This is simply what I have been told/warn about living in America – it’s not easy, in some experience, to make friends for a foreigner there.

    People appearing friendly in America is common, but you can find they are not actually being so friendly.

    Europe people form strong relationships early in lives like in schools and universities and their social class After that it is rare to open up for new ‘real’ friendship.

    But today, there are a lot of other foreigners in the same position – so the end result can be quite friendly, when foreigners in the same pool.

    • Replies: @iffen
  376. Dmitry says:
    @Anon 2

    due to the growing legalization of
    marijuana in the U.S., more people are spending time in (mildly) altered
    states, and so it’s very likely that the aesthetic criteria

    I think, people will become more spiritual in response. Perhaps, more people going in appreciation for art galleries, music, etc.

    I have not experienced LSD.

    But for cannabis – the result is immediately more interest in music and food.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  377. iffen says:
    @Dmitry

    I’m not expert on America. This is simply what I have been told/warn about living in America – it’s not easy, in some experience, to make friends for a foreigner there.

    In this discussion about the inability of making friends in America, none of you butthurts have mentioned the possibility that it might be “you” that’s the problem. It’s a math thing after all, 50/50.

  378. @melanf

    Thank you, that was very informative.

  379. Dante says:
    @German_reader

    Hey German reader I checked the Destatis website re people of migrant background and your correct the majority are other Europeans who along with ethnic Germans are still the vast majority. However the trends mentioned in the article are of course disappointing, I should hope the Afd can truly become a force to be reckoned with sooner than later. Cheers

  380. @German_reader

    the Danes certainly do resent Germany for WW2 (don’t know about Norwegians).

    In Denmark I think the resentment is beginning to be aimed inwards.

    Nowadays there seems to be a lot more discussion about how Danes reacted to the occupation than the Germans’ actions themselves.

    http://nyheder.tv2.dk/2015-05-05-historien-om-besaettelsen-aendrer-sig-hele-tiden

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45893490

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the same for the Norwegians and the Dutch.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @ERM
  381. @Mitleser

    The Kingdom of the Visigothics, the ones who were successfully invaded did not survive.

    It was a point of reference for the later Christian kingdoms though. And some of its cultural/religious products lived on (e.g. the acts of all those councils held in Toledo which had some importance for canon law throughout Latin Christendom, or the writings of Isidore of Sevilla and Julian of Toledo).
    One also shouldn’t imagine the Visigothic kingdom as especially Germanic in character, in many ways it was a continuation of Christian late antiquity, and the history of the later Spanish kingdoms was in a line with that, there was no total break because of the Islamic conquest.

  382. @Hyperborean

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the same for the Norwegians

    I think the Norwegian prime minister just apologised for the post-war treatment of Norwegian women who had let themselves be impregnated by German soldiers during WW2.
    Actually a bit lame imo, as a Norwegian patriot I would still consider those women to have been sluts tbh.

  383. Actually a bit lame imo, as a Norwegian patriot I would still consider those women to have been sluts tbh.

    I could probably find a more fitting example if I could handle backwards Norwegian orthography – but look at the Danish one, it is late so I won’t translate right now but machine translate should give the gist of it.

    Like in Sweden people care more about shaming ourselves over collaborators than they care about Germans.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  384. @Hyperborean

    Sorry, I didn’t check your links before I replied…now I see you actually linked to a story about the apology of the Norwegian PM.
    It’s really sad if Danes now engage in self-flagellation over their role in WW2 when there’s zero reason for that. Also irritating that it’s insinuated one should have a positive view of communists because of their resistance to the Nazis.

  385. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mitleser

    What should they resent? They won in the end, despite a total defeat in the 20th century.

    • Agree: Hyperborean
    • Replies: @Mitleser
    , @Hyperborean
  386. @iffen

    But they’re wrong. It’s in the rest of our interest that the Israelis and their ilk abroad NOT continue to thrive and wield such disproportionate power, so cruelly and deceptively.

  387. ERM says:
    @Hyperborean

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the same for the Norwegians and the Dutch.

    I think traditionally the Norwegians enjoyed scapegoating the Swedes for the occupation, though nowadays that may have changed. As far as I can tell the Dutch still heartily hate the Germans, and do not overall strike me as a people particularly given to self-loathing.

  388. Mitleser says:
    @Anon

    I would not call that “victory in the end”.
    In Germany, physical defeat was followed by a lasting mental defeat which is undermining the very existence of the German nation.

  389. Beckow says:
    @Buster Keaton’s Stunt Double

    Too bad. But that is what I get from my Christianity: love, compassion, forgiveness and blessed afterlife. What am I missing?

    And how is that kind of philosophy not susceptible to the ‘Welcome Culture’ – come on all in, let’s share and help each other, open borders and brotherhood of men. Since we are not all ‘brothers‘ this is an invitation to take advantage of your society and is not longterm viable.

    How about a more muscular Christianity? One with some balls?

    • Replies: @Anon
  390. AaronB says:
    @Anon 2

    in part because everyone
    here is so serious, if not depressed

    Heh, you noticed too. These poor people. They don’t understand how to take life.

    Its part of the silly might makes right thing, which comes from anxiety being ones defining experience of life.

    Keep on posting, I disagree with much of what you say but you’re amusing. Most people here are too serious to appreciate anyone they disagree with.

    Squares, the lot of them :)

  391. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    One can hope.

    Lol, even the grim Anatoly reported a softening up after his recent acid drop.

    We just gotta get Daniel Chieh and utu to try :)

    It makes sense that we are now entering a more relaxed and spiritual period.

    Recently I’ve been experimenting with high concentrated doses of matcha powder with hot water – I tell you this stuff is psychoactive and would be regulated by the government if it wasn’t part of ancient Japanese tradition and just a harmless “tea”.( But you must use very strong amounts.) It is simply a drug.

    No wonder Zen monks used it for meditation. Good stuff.

    • Replies: @Anon
  392. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Maybe all of us American commenters can join you and Sr. Karlin on a drug-fueled* trip on Thorfinnsson’s yacht?

    *Just matcha. Yeah, let’s go with that story.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  393. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    Lol, I’m serious about the matcha. It was a total surprise for me.

    Actually, I generally prefer coffee to tea, but what got me intrigued is this poem by an old Chinese Zen monk. What he’s describing sounds like a drug, not tea, and I was intrigued.

    The first cup moistens the throat;

    The second shatters all feelings of solitude;

    The third cleans the digestion, and brings to mind the wisdom of 5,000 volumes;

    The fourth induces perspiration, evaporating all of life’s trials and tribulations;

    With the fifth cup, body sharpens, crisp;

    And the sixth cup is the first on the road to enlightenment;

    The seventh cup sits steaming – it needn’t be drunk, as from head to feet one rises to the abode of the immortals.

    –Lu Tong, 9th century

    Had to try it after this. No tea had ever done this to me.

    Dud done research and found he was talking about matcha.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Anon
  394. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Heretics beware…

    I think the above one is where the famous statement was made of; “Kill them all and let God sort them out.” or something of that nature…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Anon
  395. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    You are correct, that is where that remark was said by the high ranking priest in charge, after Catholic forces sacked a mixed town.

    That is why for all its beauty, the Catholic church remains so problematic. One cannot imagine Buddhists doing this.

    The problem is the emphasis on beliefs. People seek refuge in them rather than remaining open to the divine, and then of course they must defend them.

    Realize you disagree, of course, just making a point.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @RadicalCenter
  396. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    One cannot imagine Buddhists doing this.

    I’m guessing several thousands of Rohingyas are relieved to know that they are just on a bad trip caused by some bad ass tea and that what is happening to them can’t be real.

  397. @AaronB

    You don’t need to IMAGINE Buddhists doing it. Buddhist priests and followers violently attack, intimidate, and threaten people of other religions regularly.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  398. AaronB says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Buddhists certainly are violent for political reasons, but not religious reasons.

    A Buddhist army would not attack a rival sect in order to extinguish erroneous beliefs, like the Catholics did to the Albigensians.

    This response is for you too, iffen.

    Suck it, non-Buddhists!

    Lol.

    • Replies: @iffen
  399. AaronB says:

    Just to be clear I’m not a Buddhist. I don’t believe in any “ism”.

    Still, suck it, non-Buddhists!

  400. iffen says:
    @AaronB

    for political reasons, but not religious reasons

    Po ta toe / po tah toe

    One cannot imagine Buddhists doing this.

    Actually, the imagination is only limited by the imaginer; I think that’s the problem.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  401. AaronB says:
    @iffen

    Iffen, it happens to be a fact that there is very little history of religious persecution or religious conflict among Buddhists, whereas Christians were killing each other in huge numbers for centuries for small differences in belief.

    Buddhists dont have beliefs, so that relieves them of the necessity of killing those who have the wrong ones.

  402. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Wrong century and wrong Pope, but yeah.

    That the statement was ever actually made is disputed; it’s reported anecdotally in a source about as reliable as the Muslim stuff about Mohammed torturing people for gold. But it’s not all that far-fetched. Having a city taken by storm is not fun, just ask the Berliners: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin . Life’s not always a Berliner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_(doughnut).

  403. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    This is what people are traditionally doing in prison- making very strong tea

    • Replies: @AaronB
  404. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    That reminds me of chifir: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifir

    I’ve never had six cups of matcha in a row, but I have had extremely strong tea and while it did have invigorating and other less pleasant effects I tend not to credit extreme reports.

    Where did you find he was talking about matcha? They did have something like it in China at the time but they also had many other kinds of course.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  405. Talha says:

    it’s reported anecdotally in a source about as reliable

    No doubt. History is replete with that kind of stuff. Our history books are the most unreliable of our texts, often filled with statements or claims from unsourced and undocumented origins. I definitely wouldn’t bet any money on it. I do think though that the statement is at least attributed (even if erroneously) to that event as its origin.

    My point was simply to add onto yours about Christians with “balls”…my “heretics” comment was just to point out that…as far as this thread is concerned, those Christians from back in the day would have considered it a target-rich environment- “But, but I’m White and a European nationalist!” wouldn’t have taken you too far.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  406. AP says:
    @Anon

    Interesting. I work with a Cuban guy and at office parties I notice that eastern Europeans and Latinos mix more closely, and Anglos are a little separate.

  407. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    that event

    Yes, the Albigensian crusade and the taking of Beziers.

    I’m not disagreeing with you, just noting for the guy I responded to who seemed like he wanted to learn more that Pope Urban II and Pope Innocent III were in two different centuries; that’s not to say they wouldn’t have gotten along.

    edit: Why does my spellcheck recognize “Albigensian” but not “commenter”?

  408. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    Well, Zen monks traditionally drink matcha to aid in meditation, and that poet was a Zen monk in Tang dynasty China, when matcha was popular there.

    So it was an educated guess. Now that I’ve drunk it though I’m sure of it :)

    But these are not ordinary cups of tea. They are only about 3 oz “shots” and whipped to a very thick consistency, like so

    https://www.google.com/search?q=koicha+matcha&client=ms-android-asus-wypm&prmd=simvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj51s68_5_eAhUr11kKHdkrCVEQ_AUIEygC&biw=360&bih=560

    Sometines, it is a bit thinner.

    I don’t know if drinking other kinds of tea, even very strong, will have the same effect.

    But I have no doubt that matcha is a strong drug, which I find hilarious :)

    Its funny what interesting thing are “hiding in plain sight”!

  409. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    That tea looks like coffee. Very cool.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  410. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    They pass it around from the same cup, so basically like Japanese tea ceremony, but instead of expensive matcha served by Geishas – it is using shit overcooked, undiluted tea, in prison.

    • Replies: @Anon
  411. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Dostoevsky doesn’t describe it (tea was looked on as something of a luxury and the prisoners drank vodka smuggled in with great difficulty) so it probably dates to Soviet times, maybe when “great difficulty” became “near-impossibility”.

    Actually chifir would probably be about as expensive as not-superior-quality matcha figuring the quantities involved, except matcha is probably not something you can reasonably expect to get in a Russian prison.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  412. Dmitry says:
    @Anon

    Matcha is a high quality grade of green tea from Japan – so it can be very expensive (the one for “tea ceremony”, not the Chinese one on alibaba).

    While, chifir was just made using normal tea, which they made very strong, overcooked tea, and then they would drink it undiluted.

    I was wondering what for Aaronb he enjoys about matcha? I guess, it could be the effects of “theanine”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theanine#Effects

    Theanine is also in normal tea, and extracted by longer brew times, so it could be a component which is enjoyed by prisoners drinking chifir.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Anon
  413. AaronB says:
    @Dmitry

    No, Dmitry, I like it because it is concentrated green fairy powder with the essence of magic concealed inside.

    Not because of theanine, or any other scientific chemical. Unless theanine is the technical name for green fairy powder.

    • Replies: @Anon
  414. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    I know what matcha is, did you read me discussing it? But quantities– an awful lot of tea is used to make chifir, and matcha is not that expensive. Though if you drink six cups like AaronB– yes, the price will run up.

    L-theanine I am aware of, don’t know what effects it has besides “calming” and “focusing” (things traditionally associated with tea) but in large doses and probably depending on the subject it may have more pronounced effects. On me– seemingly not so much. Perhaps I’ve never hit the right threshold.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18296328 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20079786

    undiluted

    That’s normal outside Russia, because we don’t make zavarka,of course we generally don’t make tea that strong to start out with. I wonder how much effect dilution has anyway? As it happens, serendipitously, I have been sick today and drinking tea (black Ceylon) with lemon and rice, about 3-5x normal strength and about 3 cups over the day, and have not noticed any symptoms so far except increased activity on UR.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Daniel Chieh
  415. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    It is a technical name for a part of the powder made by industrious Nipponese fairies.

    You have powerful opponents in your contention among great litterateurs; Belloc prefers China tea and Orwell Indian.

    Belloc, a great tea drinker, on it: It tans the liver, hardens the coats of the stomach, makes the brain feverishly active, rots the nerve-springs; all that is still true. Nevertheless I now drink it, and shall drink it; for of all the effects of Age none is more profound than this: that it leads men to the worship of some one spirit less erect than the Angels. A care, an egotism, an irritability with regard to details, an anxious craving, a consummate satisfaction in the performance of the due rites, an ecstasy of habit, all proclaim the senile heresy, the material Religion. I confess to Tea.

    • Replies: @Talha
  416. Talha says:
    @Anon

    I confess to Tea.

    Among many Desis – THIS is THE struggle during the fasting hours of Ramadan. The food is one thing, but denying oneself multiple cups of tea – the struggle is real.

    Peace.

  417. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Actually you are right about prices. Where I am using cheap black tea dust will only cost you ~25c./cup chifir and using okay matcha from Maeda-en will cost you a little less than a dollar per “cup” koicha (the internet tells me 4g tea per serving) (less per serving usucha of course). Better matcha will be more expensive.

  418. What should they resent? They won in the end, despite a total defeat in the 20th century.

    • Troll: Hyperborean

    Sorry, pressed random button.

  419. @Anon

    What should they resent? They won in the end, despite a total defeat in the 20th century.

    • Troll: Hyperborean

    Sorry, pressed random button. Anyone know to change it?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  420. @Hyperborean

    Sorry, pressed random button. Anyone know to change it?

    Well, I couldn’t get rid of it, so I just changed to agree.

    • Replies: @Anon
  421. Anon[414] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hyperborean

    Well, thanks?

    I don’t think RU has a method in place for removing those things, unfortunately.

    Honestly I wouldn’t have minded the “troll” tag, it gives the discussion a little punch.

  422. @Anon

    Theanine’s effect even in megadoses is probably limited since it increases GABA activity but its probably controlled, at some point the receptors no longer will bind more. Incidentally, I very much enjoy theanine’s nootropic effect with caffeine. I use a more 2:1 ratio of caffeine to theanine, however.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  423. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I’m simply nicotine gum and “coffee” from the coffee machine. I arrive at the office at 8:30 am and usually feel shit (because staying awake too late working/procrastination some nights, sleeping 5 hours). After interaction with coffee machine and some nicotine gum, you can start to feel life entering your bloodstream by 9 am and even have ability to say “hi” to people.

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