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Oleg Kashin in the Albats Archipelago
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There are global cultures, there are local cultures… It’s stupid to deny, that some peoples have contributed more, while others have contributed less, while a third group are – forgive me – Ukrainians.

This is what the journalist Oleg Kashin said a few days ago in a discussion at Echo of Moscow, one of Russia’s premier liberal media outlets.

Echo of Moscow journalist Evgenia Albats was not too happy with this:

Kashin is of course entirely, objectively right about all this, as conclusively demonstrated by Neo-Nazi white supremacists such as Charles Murray and Emil Kirkegaard.

murray-human-accomplishment

He is also correct about the Ukrainians, who not only haven’t produced much (Grushevsky, Franko, and Lesya Ukrainka are not exactly household names) but actively parasite on other people’s achievements, claiming for themselves Sacher-Masoch, Korolev, Makarenko, Bulgakov, even Sikorsky.

But truth is no defense against the Albats Archipelago.

albats-archipelags-kashin

Soon after that came out, Albats went to Facebook to demand that the editors of a number of Russian journals cease any cooperation with Kashin. Though as many people, including Kashin, have pointed out, what must have actually set her off was Kashin’s joke about how exactly her newspaper The News Times – which practically no-one reads (it has less than 20% the visitorship of the Unz Review) – had somehow managed to collect 25 million rubles ($400,000) within a day to pay off some legal fees it had incurred. Where were they getting the money from?

Here is some context for the sane people who don’t follow the dreary and backstabbing world of the Russian liberal tusovka.

Albats is widely viewed as one of the key “gatekeepers” in the Russian liberal journalistic clique. Back in 2006, she had tried to torpedo the career of Anna Arutyunyan, a moderately anti-Kremlin journalist, for supposedly not paying sufficient respect to the late Politkovskaya, a reporter who had been murdered. Arutyunyan said that she was more of a human rights activist than a journalist, which was objectively correct – she was closer to someone like Greenwald or John Pilger than someone like Paul Klebnikov. This is the context in which Albats acquired that moniker by way of a classic article at the muckraking magazine The Exile.

Oleg Kashin is not really a Nazi. He is a liberal journalist who dislikes Putin and now lives in London. He once got international attention for getting seriously beaten up in connection with his professional work.

Back in 2013, when I ran the short-lived Russian Spectrum project to translate articles from the Russian media into English, I translated a couple of his articles.

In the first article, he wrote about the murder of a homosexual, and how he hoped it would shock the nation into cultural change towards LGBT acceptance. That didn’t exactly pan out, but it does illustrate his values.

In the second article I translated, he argues that Russian anti-Semitism is, for all intents and purposes, dead. Now I know that Julia Ioffe earnestly disagrees, because Putin has the gall to talk about Russian suffering in World War II (no, really). Still, considering that Trumpgate-consumed Washington Post has recently published articles with headlines such as “In a strange twist of fate, now it’s Russian Jews praying for American Jews,” I think we can definitively say that Kashin was more or less right.

Incidentally, that anti-Semitism article was Kashin’s response to a 2013 article by Alexey Pankin, a pro-Kremlin pundit who works (or used to work) at Komsomolskaya Pravda, in which he had also called him an anti-Semite:

In that piece, Kashin referred to one of the senior editors as “some special Jew whose name I don’t recall.” …

So after reading the anti-Semitic statements by Kashin, who is also a member of the opposition’s Coordinating Council, I awaited a similarly strong reaction from his fellow opposition members. But it never came.

Okay, whatever, LOL.

Anyhow, congrats I suppose to Kashin, who has managed to get called an anti-Semitic Nazi by both Putinist writers and now “Archipelago Albats” at Echo of Moscow.

I wouldn’t worry too much about his career prospects. He’s got massive name recognition and will thrive even on the off chance that anybody actually heeds Albats’ diktats. Fortunately, unlike the actual SPLC, she almost never succeeds at deplatforming people.

That said, this still begs the question of why so many people have a bee up their bonnet about Kashin.

As mentioned above, he is not a Putinist, and does not much like Putinists. They largely return the favor, and in all fairness, he does have a talent for feeding normie outrage by his “powerful takes,” such as making fun of the Saint-Petersburg metro bombing in 2015.

But neither is Kashin a standard “liberal”, at least in the sense of the pejorative connotations that the word carries amongst many Russians (namely, authoritarian vindictiveness married to pathological Russophobia). He thinks it’s ridiculous to call Georgia’s incorporation into the USSR an occupation (even if he’s not “based” enough to extend the same logic to Latvia). Kashin supported the annexation of Crimea (he does consider it an illegal occupation), though he did not extend that support to the Donbass. All this makes him “unhandshakeworthy” so far as the most hardcore “demshiza” liberals are concerned, such as the sorts who make pilgrimages to Washington D.C. with lists of proposed sanctions against Russia.

Rounding out the picture, Kashin also on friendly terms with some Russian nationalists, such as Sputnik & Pogrom’s Egor Prosvirnin, for whom he even did some reporting in Crimea in 2014. Needless to say, this association severely triggers the more handshakeworthy liberals. He also makes semi-regular appearances on Prosvirnin’s livestreams. Speaking of which, here is one from a few days ago (in Russian ofc), in which Kashin turns up during the first 15 minutes to discuss Albats’ hysterics*:

One interesting and very telling thing that gets mentioned is that Navalny – who both Western leftist Russophobes and normie Putinists tend to portray as a nationalist – only ever goes to Albats’ shows on Echo of Moscow.

So there you have it. Navalny – heroic oppositionist to Putin, who will topple him any day now, but who may also be a scary Russian nationalist chauvinist – Western Russia watchers can never quite agree on the details – and his favorite conversation partner on air is… wait for it: A one-woman SPLC with a most… stereotypical family history for her tribe (grandfather was a candidate member of the Communist Party who was arrested and shot in 1937).

The more one learns about the inner realities of Russia’s ideological currents the more hilarious Western perceptions of Russia become.

***

* I was also on that podcast, and discussed other topics with Prosvirnin and Kirill Nesterov after Kashin left, such as Chinese-Russian relations and CRISPR-transhumanism.

 
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  1. Is there a reason why anybody should care about this?
    If I understand correctly, there was some kind of naval clash between Russian and Ukrainian forces, it would be more interesting to read about that than this non-story about Ukrainians’ lack of contributions to world civilization or whatever.

    AK: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/warship-derby-off-crimea/

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Yevardian
  2. AP says:

    He is also correct about the Ukrainians, who not only haven’t produced much (Grushevsky, Franko, and Lesya Ukrainka are not exactly household names)

    Most people in the world have heard the Ukrainian composer Leontovych’s Carol of the Bells.

    And while Gogol’s works certainly are Russian literature the man was Ukrainian.

    but actively parasite on other people’s achievements, claiming for themselves Sacher-Masoch, Korolev, Makarenko, Bulgakov, even Sikorsky.

    Sacher-Masoch – half-Ruthenian from Lviv, some of his works had Ukrainian themes (Don Juan of Kolomiya was about a Ukrainian nobleman).

    Korolev was a half-Ukrainian guy, born in Zhytomir. His Russian father left when he was 3 and he was raised by his Ukrainian mother and her parents. If anything, claiming he was a Russian and not a Ukrainian would be parasitism.

    • Replies: @Adam
    , @Gerard2
  3. @German_reader

    To be fair, the story is about the internal workings of the Russian liberal intellectual “elite.” But I cannot claim to be very interested in it. I just had a debate in a Hungarian Facebook group with a guy who claimed Putin won elections only because he killed and imprisoned his opponents.

  4. DFH says:

    Ukrainians are unlucky in that their native elites who would have accomplished things were replaced/co-opted/polonized into the Polish elite, similar to the under-achievement of native Irish

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @iffen
    , @Serrice
  5. Epigon says:
    @DFH

    Your line of thought works far better for people from Imperial Russian period born on the territory of modern Ukraine.

    Jusk ask yourself: what did Polish nobility/elite accomplish during that period? Nothing, really. So the “stolen” Ukrainians didn’t do anything, either.

  6. iffen says:
    @DFH

    similar to the under-achievement of native Irish

    Smart and able enough to rid themselves of English domination.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @DFH
  7. Adam says:
    @AP

    Weren’t you just arguing that Gogol was a Ukrainian nationalist that Russians have appropriated? And now he’s a part of Russian literature? Apologies if I’ve misunderstood.

    • Replies: @AP
  8. Yevardian says:
    @German_reader

    Agreed, it’s not as if Mr. Hack, AP, Felix Keverich and a host of others don’t derail every 2nd thread into yet another Russia vs Ukraine shitfest.
    Their really is an irrational level of hatred and emotion in this debate, Ukraine should just be another minor Slavic country no one really cares about, like Slovakia or Bulgaria. Akarlin and others need to just accept that even if Ukrainians all speak Russian, they aren’t Russian, don’t want to be Russian and stop being so butthurt.

  9. @Yevardian

    Their really is an irrational level of hatred and emotion in this debate, Ukraine should just be another minor Slavic country no one really cares about, like Slovakia or Bulgaria.

    To some extent I can even understand the emotions, given the bitter history and the profound issues of national identity; I get that Russians found the prospect of a hero city and Russian naval base like Sevastopol being possibly drawn into NATO’s orbit intolerable and humiliating. The national aspirations of the Ukrainians are also easily relatable.
    But yes, from the outside the level of hatred and emotional investment seems somewhat irrational, and rather anachronistic.
    And I really wonder what kind of audience AK has in mind for articles like this. Given that this is an English-speaking site with hardly any Russian nationalists among the regular commenters, interest in this kind of story is bound to be low. Only effect it will have is to trigger AP and Mr. Hack.

  10. AP says:
    @Adam

    Weren’t you just arguing that Gogol was a Ukrainian nationalist that Russians have appropriated? And now he’s a part of Russian literature?

    He was a Ukrainian person with mixed feelings towards Russia (he was more critical and contemptuous of Russia early on, but became a Russian patriot later), who was turned into some sort of unambiguous Russian nationalist by later Russian mythologists.

    He came to find fame and fortune in Russia and his works are clearly Russian literature, even though they were influenced by his Ukrainian background.

    I guess a somewhat analogous person might be the Pole Joseph Conrad, whose works are English literature.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  11. Gerard2 says:

    He is also correct about the Ukrainians, who not only haven’t produced much (Grushevsky, Franko, and Lesya Ukrainka are not exactly household names) but actively parasite on other people’s achievements, claiming for themselves Sacher-Masoch, Korolev, Makarenko, Bulgakov, even Sikorsky.

    Incredible. I’m in shock.

    for the first time ever, Karlin actually shares an identical brain to me.
    I was literally going to post about the exact same thing in response to a Banderite fucktard on open thread 62 or 63 . I was going to use primarily Bulgakov but also Prokofiev and Korolyov in highlighting Ukrainian parasiting off Russian figures as part of a further dismantling of the fucktards idiotic claim that Gogol wasn’t Russian
    So…well done!

    Of course Karlin then degenerated in the rest of the post, but this is promising at least.

    Kashin is a dickhead first and foremost. Just because the likes of Albats , Venediktov and so on are even more reprehensible then him ( and he has enough IQ to recognise this) doesn’t merit him getting any praise for it. They are also routinely noted for being cutthroat against eachother, so why there should be any surprise about their infighting?

    Kashin is a dickhead who prostituted his supposed beating up to the western media and politicians. Once you do that you then have to be held to account by the russian press to the western model that you yearn for . Under the western fake and hypocritical attitude to these things, Kashin is , yes….anti-semitic. So patriotic media are fully justified in calling him that, whilst Albats is not

    One interesting and very telling thing that gets mentioned is that Navalny – who both Western leftist Russophobes and normie Putinists tend to portray as a nationalist – only ever goes to Albats’ shows on Echo of Moscow.

    There is russian nationalist then there is russian ethno-nationalist, which Karlin never bothers to distinguish. Navalny is anti everything the state does, as befits as western paid scumbag. This is most obviously noted with the pension issue that he is trying to be against , when judging by his previous history it would have been assumed that he supports this measure.He is russian ethno-nationalist because the Kremlin is successfully and positively multi-ethnic/ex USSR etc.

    What is more baffling is that Karlin knows that the liberast movement is full of ethnonationalists in tandem with Russia-hating jews ( I am not saying that jews in Russia , in general, are anti-Russian) and the Russian authorities are extremely multi-ethnic, and it stands to reason that the liberast movement aligns itself with some ethno-nationalist tropes so as to discredit the state over ending the Chechen war and general issues in the ethnic republics.

    Jews don’t count as some sort of disqualifying factor, just because Navalny gives interviews by one. Think Ukraine, think south Africa ( jews played a big role in the anti-apartheid movement but also the apartheid state itself, think Hitler saying both the western capitalists and the russian communists as “jewish” when it suited him.
    ..or the fact that numerous pro-Russian journalists and producers are jewish

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  12. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    Most people in the world have heard the Ukrainian composer Leontovych’s Carol of the Bells.

    hahahahaha! the one-hit wonder, the eastern equivalent of “Roachford” with his “Cuddly Toy” of music! Yay! Is that what you are trying to say you thick POS? A guy educated in Russia, almost certainly had his wikipedia distorted for lowlife copy-and paste f**ktards as yourself to distort what he actually did…and that’s the best you can do?

    [MORE]

    And while Gogol’s works certainly are Russian literature the man was Ukrainian.

    errr…he was about as Russian in culture, allegiance, soul as it gets you diseased troll cretin. It’s clear from him and people who read his works that he is Russian. From birth to death( and he now permanently lays in Russia), despite the pitiful attempts of fucktard blogs located in Canada, by people who know nothing of Ukraine and sure as fuck don’t send any money to it . Even American anti-Russians dont think of him as “Ukrainian’ having read him you prick

    by your retarded lie “reasoning” the band “the clash” were not British because they wrote about London in a political/negative way. That analogy still wouldn’t even apply to Gogol who as vermin imbecile as yourself have tried to spamtroll lie about his writings

    Sacher-Masoch – half-Ruthenian from Lviv, some of his works had Ukrainian themes (Don Juan of Kolomiya was about a Ukrainian nobleman).

    When the vague, BS term “ukrainian themes” is put about , you know you are dealing with a moron liar who doesn’t even know what these so called ‘Ukrainian themes” are

    Korolev was a half-Ukrainian guy, born in Zhytomir. His Russian father left when he was 3 and he was raised by his Ukrainian mother and her parents. If anything, claiming he was a Russian and not a Ukrainian would be parasitism.

    lol…..errr..Korolyov was the very quintessential Russian you thick scumbag. He wrote his identity as “Russian” on all key documents, his family, what he has said , and his great contribution to the benefit of the USSR with no “Ukrainian” individual element to it whatsoever are among numerous things which would make it impossible to believe as anything else than a great Russian

    He is also in the running to lead on 4 different Russian airports name, leading in Vnukovo and Samara ( a thick tramp attention-whore freak as yourself would be too thick to realise why he is in the lead there)

    Of course a similar competition would be impossible in Ukraine, because all the people in the running, and left to vote without any pressure would all choose great Russian world people who view themselves entirely as Russian, speak Russian, think Russian, married to a Russian officially identify as Russian, the whole outside world views as Russian, Russia directly benefit by their work, Russians feel russianess when they see or hear their work in literature or music…and so on

    All that the Kiev nazi regime pricks would have, except a few modern singers and music groups are turncoat, multi-failure, sadist,freak scumbags as Bandera, Mazepa, Shukheyevich and Chikatilo.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AP
  13. Nznz says:

    This thread is as funny as a child molester.

  14. Serrice says: • Website
    @DFH

    If you account for meagre population you’ll find Ireland has overperformed considerably with its elites. Usually in the arts more so than the science.

    • Replies: @DFH
  15. JLK says:

    The Ukrainians had a tough 20th century, like the Irish a century earlier. There’s still hope.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  16. He is also correct about the Ukrainians, who not only haven’t produced much (Grushevsky, Franko, and Lesya Ukrainka are not exactly household names) but actively parasite on other people’s achievements, claiming for themselves Sacher-Masoch, Korolev, Makarenko, Bulgakov, even Sikorsky.

    To be honest, I find the whole dispute a bit petty, like arguing whether Copernicus was German or Polish.

  17. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    He is also in the running to lead on 4 different Russian airports name

    Thanks for proving that accusations of parasitism are projection by parasites :-)

    4 Russian airports trying to name themselves after a Ukrainian.

    Gogol an “ethnic Russian.”

    Remember when Russians tried to even claim the Ukrainian nationalist actor Jack Palance as their own?

    http://www.legacy.com/news/celebrity-deaths/article/jack-palance-9-facts-and-a-rumor

    Of course a similar competition would be impossible in Ukraine, because all the people in the running, and left to vote without any pressure would all choose great Russian world people

    Translation: Russians parasite talented non-Russians such as Ukrainians, Poles (Malevich) etc. if they can find Russian links.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @Gerard2
  18. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    Korolyov was the very quintessential Russian

    His daughter:

    http://bulvar.com.ua/gazeta/archive/s15_3481/2103.html

    - И в заключение. Какое место в жизни, в ваших разговорах с отцом занимала Украина?

    - С тех пор как я помню себя, само слово “Украина” произносилось в нашей семье трепетно, с большой любовью. Детство моего отца прошло в Нежине, родился он в Житомире, жил в Киеве, в Одессе. Первые 24 года, почти половину отпущенного ему пути, отец провел в Украине. Он очень ее любил. Любил украинские песни, “українську мову”. Это точно. “Дивлюсь я на небо”, “Реве та стогне Днiпр широкий” – любимые песни бабушки и отца. Поэтому и у меня лично – возможно, генетически – особое отношение к Украине перешло по наследству.

    Я была в Житомире – там прекрасный музей в доме, где родился мой отец. Многое воссоздавалось по воспоминаниям бабушки, которая отдала много вещей, сохранившихся в семье. И каждый раз, переступая порог музея, испытываю огромное волнение, потому что в этом доме первые шаги сделал мой отец. В Киевском политехническом есть аудитория имени Королева, даже парта стоит, за которой он сидел. Она специально ленточкой обвязана.

    - Что бы вы хотели пожелать читателям Украины?

    - Прежде всего мира и процветания. Еще чтобы в Украине помнили о людях, которые родились на украинской земле и которые внесли весомый вклад в историю человечества. Недавно выпущена в Украине книга “Сто великих украинцев”. Отец тоже есть в этой книге.

    Хотелось бы, чтобы 100-летие Сергея Павловича 12 января 2007 года отметила и Украина.

    ::::::::::::

    “Quintessential Russian” :-)

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  19. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    You previously popped off that Jack Palance point, which just shows that the Russian government and Putin himself doesn’t always get the best info.

    Once again noting (from a prior exchange) how some Poles have incorrectly believed that Natalie Wood was Russian.

    Touching on the subject of who is what, the Kiev regime actively opposed the selection of a Ukrainian born ethnic Ukrainian to head Interpol.

  20. DFH says:
    @Serrice

    Who is there before Joyce who was not Anglo-Irish? Also pre-famine Ireland had quite a big population, roughly a third to half of Englands.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  21. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    That Gogol was ethnically part Ukrainian and part Polish isn’t in dispute. He was never anti-Russian, becoming more conservative and pro-Russian as he got older.

    His satire has been misrepresented in some circles – somewhat along the lines of saying that Dave Chappelle is anti-African-American for using a certain n word, while having some skits which are critical of trends within the African-American community.

  22. DFH says:
    @iffen

    Togoese and New Guineans also performed this amazing feat.

  23. Yevardian says:
    @Gerard2

    Ask Unz for your own ‘Ask a Russian’ column plz.

  24. Twinkie says:

    Mr. Karlin, your citation of the “97% of scientific inventories… in Europe or North America” made me think of your previous post, in which you wrote the following in objection to JayMan’s wholesale painting of Eastern Europeans as more likely to be communist:

    However, when one gets down the historical details, it emerges that there were plenty of exceptions and even reversals to the general trend.

    Aside from methodological problems with the writings that produced that 97% figure (including time horizon bias, i.e. presentism), there is also the issue of details with the wholesale categories.

    Throughout recorded history, different Europeans (of different lineages) have contributed to scientific discoveries at wildly varying rates. The large variances are both geographic and temporal in nature – and may even be much greater than the variances across Eurasia.

  25. @Yevardian

    they aren’t Russian,

    They are Russian, just the low-quality version of Russian.

    don’t want to be Russian

    Oh no no, they ever so desperately want to be Russian. As in, part of Russia proper. It’s all massive sour grapes syndrome; they know they’ll never be accepted as equal partners (see my first point), and that causes massive amounts of asspain, projection and denial.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  26. @JLK

    The Ukrainians had a tough 20th century

    Can’t remember any century when ‘Ukraine’ didn’t have it tough. Maybe when the Scythians still ruled the place?

  27. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:

    Ukrainians seem to contribute to World culture outside the Ukrainian context. Take for instance Gogol, who wrote in Russian and is part of the Russian culture. Or from modern times Palahniuk, the author of the Fight Club, who contributed to American literature and American culture. The best selling novel from Nezalezhnaya is (or was) Смерть постороннего, which is another contribution to the fund of Russian language literature.

    Somehow the rural culture of the Ukrainians does not translate well into high urban culture. The Ukrainian wants to escape the provinciality of his being and enter the World, and he can’t do it through Ukrainian.

    Perhaps in the future, the Ukrainian language will actually produce a writer of note. There is no reason it shouldn’t.

  28. the Ukrainian language

    No such thing. It’s even less of a real language than Scots.

    • Replies: @Anon
  29. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yevardian

    Ukraine should just be another minor Slavic country no one really cares about, like Slovakia or Bulgaria. Akarlin and others need to just accept that even if Ukrainians all speak Russian, they aren’t Russian, don’t want to be Russian and stop being so butthurt.

    Your comment shows a complete lack of understanding of the Ukrainian issue. Ukraine, if we are to believe official statistics of the Ukrainian government, is 40 million people, many of these people speak Russian and many do not have a bad opinion of Russia, even though the number has dropped in recent years.

    Also, Ukraine is used by foreign powers to cause Russia problems, and that makes it qualitatively different from Bulgaria or Slovakia. The levels of Russophobia that come from Ukraine are nothing you would find in Bulgaria or Slovakia.

    And the emotional response some individuals like Mr. Hack (a nickname I actually gave him), or AP has been carefully cultivated for about a century. It is distilled Russophobia, which they display. And you are asking Russians not to be butthurt? You are asking too much.

  30. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous coward

    It’s even less of a real language than Scots.

    But that’s where you are wrong. Your statement ignores a century of efforts to replace Russian with Ukrainian. Nobody ever tried to codify and implement the use of Scots language.

    And as someone, who reads Ukrainian daily, lately the level of Ukrainian has become rather professional in the media.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    , @anonymous coward
  31. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:

    Albats’ rag was called Новое Бремя but in a fashion of true cargo cult it is now “The New Times”.

  32. Gerard2 says:
    @Anon

    And as someone, who reads Ukrainian daily, lately the level of Ukrainian has become rather professional in the media.

    Disagree. I read so much “Ukrainian” that it is so obvious to see is written by a russian-speaking/thinking in Russian guy (e.g living in or from Kiev) it makes attempts to claim this fake country has it’s own “language” when clearly it’s a dialect, utterly ridiculous

    I remember your brilliant post about places in the west Ukraine being called russian names such as Uzhgorod. Many things you can do the same analogy with….the most amusing one being the supposed major symbol of Ukrainian “identity” and fight for nationhood, but they can’t even use a “Ukrainian” word for it but a Russian one. I am , of course, talking about the fictitious Golodomor.

    It’s a joke done many times before but it was very funny to see on Kiselyov’s show , him using the headline ” холодомор” as a pun when referring to the catastrophic lack of gas supply in a few million Ukrainian households in the last few weeks.

  33. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    “Quintessential Russian” :-)

    haha!….you think after (another) debacle when your inability to speak Russian meant you disturbingly promoted the lie that “only ” 300 homes in Kiev remain without hot water, when the article you erroneously promoted clearly said that only 300 homes in a multi-million inhabitant city had been restored hot water ( easy to mistake in English, practically impossible to do this mistake in Russian)….that I’m supposed to translate for you again , you imbecile? LOL.

    [MORE]

    What part of Korolyov “officially identifies himself as “Russian” on documents” are you too much of a braindead nutcase to understand you laughably dim POS?

    even when he was spending time in prison…even then he wrote on his prison forms as being ‘Russian”…and this despite growing up in the full-scale “Ukrainiazation” done by Lenin, you idiot. That , and the fact there is no such thing as an “ethnic Ukrainian”, but there is “ethnic Russian” which is what he will proudly always be, you diseased scumbag. Not to mention speaking Russian, typical russian characteristics, paraded to the world as Russian. How much of a pathetic braindead loser do you have to be, to not only be a Banderite inbred whose scumbag family fled in disgrace to North America….but to then be so desperate as to have to promote the man who is synonymous with the very best image abroad and internally of the Soviet Union/Russia from this time..as a Ukrainian…whilst the fucktard Banderites are “decommunising”. Stupid pathetic idiot.

    As for the interview with his daughter ( and it shows your retardation and desperation that after many hours of searching, you can only drag out one, from a very dubious BS Ukrop source, more than a decade ago…..as if ukrop media wouldn’t have tried extensively in the last 4 years to get his family to say something that converges with “Ukrainian” pseudo-nationalists)

    she is interviewed..of course she is going to say nice things about Ukraine you thick dipshit…as I’m sure she says the same about Russia and Kazakhstan and maybe the USSR in general. If I was interviewed I would say I love Ukrainian songs and food- that doesn’t in any way mean it is separate from Russia you idiot. Putin would probably say the same….or the numerous high profile Russian politicians born and even raised or educated in Ukraine ( are younow claiming they too are “Ukrainian” you thick POS?) ….or the “Ukrainian” Russian Interpol head , educated in Kiev , would probably say the same ( as if that doesn’t prove what a farce it is to try to separate the two peoples as separate

    but LOL…..4 airports he is seriously in the running to be the winning name,a s with Gogol as Russian as they come you sick freak

    • Replies: @AP
  34. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    [MORE]

    Remember when Russians tried to even claim the Ukrainian nationalist actor Jack Palance as their own?

    err.WTF? No. Because it never happened you useless tramp. Can you show one Russian article or person even hinting or claiming he is Russian you prick? Or anybody else such as Gershwin…or even explain why the fuck they would do this you twat with American-born stars?

    I know your linking erroneous bollocks because I know they event because it is the same one that Dustin Hoffman said that he was proud of his heritage from Kiev, Russia ( probably done unintentionally, but the man was talking sense) it is from this that Palance was (alleged) to have got annoyed by, but the way you are spinning the story is laughable timewasting BS

    beyond braindead you would even go down the film route. For starters it is almost certain that he was told to change his real name, because it was ” too Russian” in an anticommunist time , second…he isn’t a “Ukrainian” but a confused Pole. Third , apart from this obviously being a BS story, this guy was nowhere near trying to be cast in the only “Ukrainian” story Hollywood has done (Taras Bulba), which was of course by the great Russian , Gogol, and brought to Hollywood by the Russian, Yul Bryner…because these stories are very much part of Russia

    all the main Ukrainian actors and directors and producers went to work in or for Russia after the end of the USSR you twerp, every high grossing non-western film in Ukraine is…Russian, when films like Stalingrad and Irony of Fate 2 perform strongly in Russian Box office…then they perform strongly and beat western competition in Ukrainian Box office. Do Polish films ( you moronically claimed Polish was similar or even laughably more similar to “Ukrainian” then Russian) even register in the Ukrainian film box office…..hahaha! Of course not , idiot. It’s like Russian and Ukrainian are the same culture or something…..

    Irony of fate is a much of part of New Year watching in Ukraine as in Russia as well you prick. The film about the 1972 Basketball win in the Olympics would almost certainly have been a major success in Ukropia if it had been allowed wide distribution you thick twat.

  35. @Anon

    But that’s where you are wrong. Your statement ignores a century of efforts to replace Russian with Ukrainian. Nobody ever tried to codify and implement the use of Scots language.

    Political will can’t create a language out of thin air. The Ukrainian government can force its people to jump through ridiculous hoops, make them speak a made-up clown language instead of their mother tongue, for example, but this won’t make this clown language real. A language is something that can only come about naturally and freely, not by dictat.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Philip Owen
  36. AP says:
    @anonymous coward

    A language is something that can only come about naturally and freely, not by dictat.

    Yet the Ukrainian language, based on real peasant speech, is more real and less artificial than the Russian language, which is a made-up concoction of peasant speech and Church Slavonic. From someone who knows more about linguistics than either of us:

    Compared to Ukrainian, Russian is a poor and underdeveloped language from every linguistic point of reference, particularly in terms of its vocabulary and grammar. It’s understandable, as modern Russian, from the historic perspective, is a very young and largely artificially created language, a sort of Esperanto; and it hasn’t had enough time, unlike Ukrainian, to develop the variety of linguistic forms and shortcuts that emerge only when a language is used naturally and for a long period of time by common people communicating with one another daily , rather than via being concocted in an ivory tower. As a result, there’re thousands of Ukrainian shortcut adverbs (e.g.: торік, чимдуж, etc.) that can be expressed in Russian only by using a combination of three separate words. Likewise, Ukrainian has three single-word superlative degrees, while Russian has only one. Ukrainian has two Infinitive forms for every verb (e.g.: робити/робить) versus a single form in Russian. Ukrainian has single-word forms of Future Imperfect (e.g. матиму, матимемо, матимеш, матиме, матимуть) completely absent from Russian. Ukrainian has the Plus Quam Perfectum tense (e.g. він почав був читати, та його зупинили); Russian doesn’t. And the list goes on and on.

    Every U verb has two Infinitive forms (e.g., робить/робити) vs one in R (e.g. делать).
    All U verbs in Present Imperfect ending in “є” also have two forms (e.g., буває/бува) vs only one (бывает)in R.

    Every U verb can be used in Plus Quam Perfectum (e.g., я був почав); this tense is absent from R altogether.

    Every U verb can be used in a single-word Future Imperfect (e.g., матиму/матимемо/матимеш/матимете/матиме/матимуть); again, there’s no such tense in R.

    U has thousands of single-word shortcut adverbs absent from R, such as торік, чимдуж, здебільш, навшпиньки, насамперед, завдальшe, etc. absent from R, all of which require two or three R words to express the same.

    U has three forms of superlative adjectives and adverbs (e.g., найвищий/якнайвищий/щоякнайвищий) vs one in R (e.g., наивысший).

    Another example: “the single-word Future Imperfect (майбутній час недоконаного виду) that is absent from Russian where it can be formed only with the Future form of the auxiliary verb “to be”. E.g. “We will live” in Russian can be formed only as “Мы будем жить”, whereas in Ukrainian, both as “Ми житимемо” (one word for “will live”) and “Ми будемо жити” (“to be” in the Future + Infinitive). Another tense Russian doesn’t have is Plus Quam Perfectum (Past Perfect in English) called in Ukrainian “давноминулий час” and indicating an action finished before some moment in the past, e.g. “Я був читав”.

    While in U, all of the above forms were present in common everyday speech in the 1700′s (that’s the speech and vocabulary Kotliarevsky used to write “The Aeneid” published in 1798), R at the time was a mere rudiment of what it has become after Pushkin and is today.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Adam
  37. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    you think after (another) debacle when your inability to speak Russian meant you disturbingly promoted the lie that “only ” 300 homes in Kiev remain without hot water, when the article you erroneously promoted clearly said that only 300 homes in a multi-million inhabitant city had been restored hot water

    So you can’t read English? LOL.

    You know there is a search function on Unz.

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/whos-coming-to-the-us/#comment-2605051

    “According to your article, as of October 16th 3,000 homes in a city of 3 million had been without hot water.”

    Your Russian is rather bad too, also.

    The article:

    https://cn.com.ua/kultura/2018/10/30/goriachaia-voda-v-kieve-mestnye-jiteli-v-socseti-ytverjdaut-chto-sityaciia-ne-ylychshilas/

    Last paragraph:

    “«Хочу извиниться перед людьми за отсутствия теплоснабжения. Около 3000 домов уже несколько месяцев живут без воды.”

    So now we know that you can’t read Russian very well Gerad2 :-)

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  38. DFH says:
    @AP

    Ukrainian has two Infinitive forms for every verb (e.g.: робити/робить) versus a single form in Russian.

    But so does Russian, for the imperfective and perfective forms e.g. делать/сделать

  39. @DFH

    That’s a matter of language and class. Pre famine the peasants outside The Pale mostly spoke Gaelic and couldn’t write. Even the priests were not greatly educated. I would suggest Swift as a figure to consider before Joyce. He’s not popular with nationalists. The Anglo-Irish gentry did participate in the Europe wide fashion for scientific research, as did the Russians and Russian gentry in Ukraine.

  40. @anonymous coward

    The entire world desperately wants to be British. There has been massive cultural appropriation since the early 19th Century, for example, steam engines. London is packed with the wealthy from across the world. If I am wrong, you too are wrong about Ukrainian desperation to be Russian.

    And what about Peter the Great appropriating Paris fashions?

  41. @anonymous coward

    In Wales we have had 400 years of government efforts to eradicate Welsh. It didn’t work. We have had 50 years of very moderate efforts to repair the damage. That is not working so well either. Language change by government dictat is hard to do. economic collapse appears to be the best way to impose the imperial language – Ireland after The Famine and Wales after The Depression. The institutions of the colonized collapse (work, trade, religion).

  42. Adam says:
    @AP

    These kind of judgements are totally outside the science of linguistics. By this logic German is utterly inferior to Icelandic because it has a simpler grammar. I don’t think so.

    At any rate, the idea that the language of Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Blok and countless others is ‘primitive’ compared to a language with a fourth rate literary tradition is laughable.

    • Replies: @AP
  43. AP says:
    @Adam

    By this logic German is utterly inferior to Icelandic because it has a simpler grammar. I don’t think so.

    “Inferiority” is not mentioned. Artificiality and simplicity are mentioned. Ukrainians is both more natural and more complex than is Russian. These are facts. It does not make Ukrainian superior to Russian.

    At any rate, the idea that the language of Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Blok and countless others is ‘primitive’ compared to a language with a fourth rate literary tradition is laughable

    1. Primitive was not mentioned. More simple, and artificial were used. These are facts, not judgments.

    2. Ability to produce the world’s greatest literary tradition depended on factors other than the nature of the language, of course. A people who are reduced mostly to peasants with their elites adopting a different language are not going to produce the worlds’ premier literary tradition despite speaking a more complex and natural language. It’s a silly argument.

    • Replies: @Adam
  44. Adam says:
    @AP

    Apologies for being imprecise with my language but it doesn’t change my point. ‘Poor’ clearly implies inferiority and ‘underdeveloped’ is more or less a synonym with primitive.

    First off, nobody has established that Ukrainian is more ‘complex’ than Russian. Ukrainian and Russian are both very complicated languages and it would likely take several hundred pages to summarize the patterns, rules, and exceptions of each language. A handful of comparisons doesn’t really establish anything.

    It is true that, at the time of codification of each language, written Ukrainian had a greater correspondance to the language of common people than written Russian. However, to exaggerate that fact to Russian being ‘artificial’ like Esperanto is absurd. Literary Russian was not a foreign language to common people. At any rate, spoken Russian has converged to written Russian to a large extent. Is spoken Russian today unreal or inauthentic?

    My point about literature is that Russian has proved itself capable of producing beautiful, complex, world renowned prose and poetry. Ukrainian literature has a couple of notable pieces but is otherwise totally overshadowed by Russian literature. It’s kind of like someone claiming that Low German is much more nuanced and natural than the semi-artifical Standard High German. It comes off as silly when the gap in literary achievement is so vast.

    I don’t actively dislike the Ukrainian language or think it’s incapable of quality literature, by the way. But lifting up Ukrainian culture by denigrating Russian culture is a losing and rather pathetic battle. And please, don’t pretend this is a detached discussion about linguistics, real linguistics is nothing like this.

    • Replies: @AP
  45. AP says:
    @Adam

    ‘Poor’ clearly implies inferiority and ‘underdeveloped’ is more or less a synonym with primitive.

    These words were used to describe Russian specifically from a “linguistic point of reference” and the description that followed supported this judgment. Russian has fewer verb tenses and is indeed less developed. “Simpler” can be as much of a synonym with “underdeveloped” as is “primitive.”

    First off, nobody has established that Ukrainian is more ‘complex’ than Russian

    The author whose work I posted provided numerous examples of Ukrainian being more complex than Russian. And he didn’t even mention that the Ukrainian language has retained the evocative tense to verbs that Russian has mostly lost (it only survives in expressions such as “Bozhe”). This does not imply superiority, of course.

    It is true that, at the time of codification of each language, written Ukrainian had a greater correspondance to the language of common people than written Russian. However, to exaggerate that fact to Russian being ‘artificial’ like Esperanto is absurd.

    I agree that this was an exaggeration. But it was far from a minor thing.

    At any rate, spoken Russian has converged to written Russian to a large extent. Is spoken Russian today unreal or inauthentic?

    No. It has obviously become natural. I was responding to the comment by the other poster who claimed that Ukrainian was artificial and made-up when in reality this is much more true of Russian. The fact that the more-artificial Russian language is today spoken naturally by its speakers does not change this fact about its origins. Ukrainian is the codification of every-day language of rural people from Poltava region in Ukraine. Russian is the codification of a more artificial mixture of everyday rural speech from central Russia, and Church Slavonic.

    BTW a parallel project to Russian was attempted in western Ukraine – Iazychiye, a mixture of local Galician and Church Slavonic. This project was eclipsed by standard Ukrainian from the East:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iazychie

    But lifting up Ukrainian culture by denigrating Russian culture

    I see no denigration of Russian culture here. To say that Russians produced arguably the world’s greatest literary tradition using a language that was simpler or less developed than Ukrainian is not to denigrate Russian culture.

  46. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    The article:

    https://cn.com.ua/kultura/2018/10/30/goriachaia-voda-v-kieve-mestnye-jiteli-v-socseti-ytverjdaut-chto-sityaciia-ne-ylychshilas/

    Last paragraph:

    “«Хочу извиниться перед людьми за отсутствия теплоснабжения. Около 3000 домов уже несколько месяцев живут без воды.”

    So now we know that you can’t read Russian very well Gerad2

    hahaha you lying diseased spambot scumbag!

    Около 3000 домов уже несколько месяцев живут без воды

    ummmmm…… next line after that …….

    Мы нашли выход

    Which would pretty much comprehensively prove my point but for…the very first sentence proving it even more you lying POS fraud lowlife……

    хотя мэр В.Кличко отчитался о том, что горячее водоснабжение возобновлено в около 3000 домов

    ..which somehow even more proves what a non-Russian speaker cretinous sack of faeces you truly are. So you’ve misread the same thing, 3 times, in the same article…….i.e used Google Translate like the fucktard you are , because you don’t know Russian….in order to waste time, and be the fantasist spambot freak you are! Hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic

    I would add that I know what I read at the time, and it was definitely 300 homes as the figure, not that it makes that much difference to the abjectness of the situation given the size of Kiev. I wouldn’t rule out that a sick freak as yourself somehow managed to change the article……you’ve already written here more in a few hours then I could do in a few years

    What is most disturbing is that in order to get to the last sentence of the article, you should have to go through the very first sentence…the most natural thing that any sane person would do. That you would then pretend ( or be unable to do so) so, but then still be willing to waste that amount of time, illustrates what a sick imbecile you must be. WEIRD

    but do pay a visit for a “holiday” to Krivoi Rog…..the locals treated there to having three hundred thousand of them living without gas supply for much of the previous week…this with temperatures reaching a “tropical” minus 3 centigrade

    • Replies: @AP
  47. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    Let’s repeat what the article said:

    https://cn.com.ua/kultura/2018/10/30/goriachaia-voda-v-kieve-mestnye-jiteli-v-socseti-ytverjdaut-chto-sityaciia-ne-ylychshilas/

    Last paragraph:

    “«Хочу извиниться перед людьми за отсутствия теплоснабжения. Около 3000 домов уже несколько месяцев живут без воды.”

    About 3000 houses were without power for several months.

    Do you have trouble understanding that?

    Maybe you were lazy and only read the beginning of the article rather than the conclusion?

    Or perhaps your Russian is not too good. You are an anti-Russian troll playing a caricature of a dumb Russian (I don’t care, I go with it) – perhaps you are from the Baltics?

    I would add that I know what I read at the time

    Oh, we know what you “know” when you “read.”

    I posted the link to the comment. It was 3,000.

    Link to my comment:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/whos-coming-to-the-us/#comment-2605051

    My words:

    “According to your article, as of October 16th 3,000 homes in a city of 3 million had been without hot water.”

    :::::::::::::

    You can’t help but fail every time :-)

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  48. Gerard2 says:

    About 3000 houses were without power for several months.

    Do you have trouble understanding that?

    LOL…..FFS what a sick fantasist freak. When in trouble to lie and waste time with your millions of hours constructed garbage, is your ridiculous modus operandi you twat.

    I will indulge you moronism this time….at the end ( your retarded excuse of the quite comprehensive first sentence makes no sense ,of course) he says in the next sentence , basically, that they found a solution (i.e to complement the ” restore water in 3000 houses in Kiev” sentence) Reminder ,Kiev is a Russian city of 3 million)

    So they only managed to restore hot water in 3000 homes….NOT that only 3000 homes had no hot water, you thick tramp.

    I am confused though, for the artificial and fake language of the artificial and fake state of “Ukraine” they have to use the Russian word of Golodomor . Very strange to have to base a big part of a fake national identity on an event by using a Russian word …..particularly with it being fake.

    But the main reason I am confused is that although the Golodomor was a hoax, a non-event spearheaded in it’s creation by the American yellow press……you are such a mentally diseased , lying sick lowlife freak……that it’s perfectly plausible that you would eat your Grandmother, and then your younger brothers and sisters…..which is a common theme that Banderatard sadist freaks claim ( with glee) that they did in 1932-33. Similar to exaggerated stories of lampshades from other events ( though the other event I mention did happen) . You would eat your grandmother you sick POS, but the genocide could not have happened……..this is a real puzzle to solve

    • Replies: @AP
  49. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    I see that I will have to teach you Russian.

    So they only managed to restore hot water in 3000 homes….NOT that only 3000 homes had no hot water

    Here is what he said.

    “Около 3000 домов уже несколько месяцев живут без воды.”

    “About 3,000 homes are now living with water for several months already.”

    So 3,000 homes had no hot water.

    ” Мы нашли выход. ”

    “We found a way out.”

    “Сейчас все процедуры пройдены.”

    “Now we’ve gone through all the procedures.”

    ” Горячая вода должна появиться в течение двух недель”

    “Hot water should appear in about 2 weeks.”

    Let’s put it all the sentences back together for you. I know you’re kinda slow:

    About 3,000 homes are now living with water for several months already. We found a way out. Now we’ve gone through all the procedures. Hot water should appear in about 2 weeks.”

    No mention that these 3,000 homes without hot water were only a small subset of the homes without hot water.

    So we know you can’t understand Russian. Or Ukrainian. What country do you write from, troll?

    Here is something else you won’t understand:

    https://www.rbc.ua/rus/news/kieve-okolo-3-tys-domov-goryachey-vody-1538656439.html

    “В Киеве в около 3 тыс. домов нет горячей воды”

    https://strana.ua/news/148799-v-kieve-8-iz-10-rajonov-ostanutsja-bez-horjachej-vody-do-9-ijulja.html

    “В Киеве без горячей воды остались около 3 тысяч квартир”

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Show us again how you fail to read Russian :-)

  50. Gerard2 says:

    So 3,000 homes had no hot water.

    …..

    No mention that these 3,000 homes without hot water were only a small subset of the homes without hot water.

    So we know you can’t understand Russian. Or Ukrainian. What country do you write from, troll?

    hahaha! This is getting surreal , even for a POS freak like you. Lie upon lie.

    What is most sick is that you’re the freak who has researched for hours to get this link, and then not actually read it. I’m under no obligation to read your time-wasting garbage in full , when I already know your lying (i.e I knew 1 million+ homes for 6 months without hot water)

    Your initial statement was that 3000 homes in a city of 3 million were effected (i.e you were trying to minimise the impacts of this freakshow, in a city you know nothing off in a country you do fuckall for and know nothing off)

    Truth from reading the article is that it is 3000 buildings, NOT 3000 homes as a dumb tramp as yourself proclaimed. That is a huge distinction because that brings it near to the 1 million figure .

    I’ve then made the “mistake” of taking your lie at face-value and applied what Klitshchko is quoted as saying to the 3000 homes BS, when if I had actually bothered to read it in full( or even the first sentence and not homed in on the number), I would still be right, but would have just noticed that mnogoethzhak and mnogokvartnikh domov pretty much make it self-explanatory that it is not 3000 homes as a freak like you implies.

    So put simply, because you don’t speak or know Russian, you must of used some Google Translate nonsense…and it’s f**ked up for you by listing the word as “home” when that is not it at all you idiot

    The one useful thing also learned….it actually went upto 7 months, and even by the time of the article it wasn’t even complete ( even says so in the last sentence)

    Pathetic and retarded,

    • Replies: @AP
  51. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    What is most sick is that you’re the freak who has researched for hours to get this link

    Google searches take no more seconds, perhaps a couple of minutes.

    Your initial statement was that 3000 homes in a city of 3 million were effected

    That’s what the Russian-language text that you are unable to read said.

    Truth from reading the article is that it is 3000 buildings, NOT 3000 homes

    Article says multi-apartment buildings but Klitschko just mentions 3000 homes, Well here is another link you can’t read because you don’t know Russian:

    https://strana.ua/news/148799-v-kieve-8-iz-10-rajonov-ostanutsja-bez-horjachej-vody-do-9-ijulja.html

    В Киеве без горячей воды остались около 3 тысяч квартир

    Do you know that kvartira is an apartment (i.e., a home?)

    :::::::::

    So you fail yet again, troll :-)

    But keep trying. How many hours did your failed attempt take?

  52. @AP

    Except Воды is water. A shutdown of hot water supplies sometimes as late as early November is common in Russia.

  53. melanf says:

    A shutdown of hot water supplies sometimes as late as early November is common in Russia.

    Where is common? I’ve never seen anything like it.

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