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Is Haiti a Shithole?
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I don’t know about that.

That said, it does have several… what we might diplomatically call dubious distinctions.

So far as I’m aware, it is the only country in the in the world to kick off its independence with literal white genocide – the real deal, not some half-hearted ethnic cleansing.

It is now the poorest, lowest IQ, most dysfunctional country in the western hemisphere.

And it also appears to be one of the very few countries in the world that is poorer today than it was back in the 1940s.

haiti-gdp

Whereas Haiti was once level pegging with the Dominican Republic, there is now a more than twofold gap between the two. No doubt on account of the Dominican Republic’s superior environmental practices. /s

Even Communist Cuba has done far better.

kristol-conservative-haiti

On the positive side, at least they vote in line with the the wishes of the Jewish Lobby at the UN, unlike those Norwegian socialists. That makes them real American conservatives.

PS. Sputnik and Pogrom reaction: “While Putin imports hordes of “talented and hard-working” Gastarbeiters into the RF, who give the country “massive advantages for development,” Trump is calling Haiti and Nigeria “shitholes” and is demanding the US import Norwegians. What an anti-multinational bastard!

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Donald Trump, Haiti, Immigration 
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  1. Isn’t the politically correct explanation that Haiti was held back in its development by having to pay massive reparations to France? Maybe not terribly convincing…but at least there might be some excuse for the country’s dysfunctionality.
    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer’s thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn’t a good thing the Cold war ended with such people “winning” it.

    Read More
    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer’s thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn’t a good thing the Cold war ended with such people “winning” it.
     
    Agreed. It turns out the Cold War wasn't a struggle between the bad guys (the Soviets) and the good guys (the Americans). It was a struggle between the bad guys (the Soviets) and the much worse guys (the Americans).
    , @ogunsiron
    Bill (((Kristolnacht))) is despicable and evil.
    Erickson is just retarded and ... just a soy sponge at this point.
    , @ogunsiron
    The french debt didn't help, but my gut feeling is that Haiti is what it is because it's an african country.
    A barely modified african nation. Bahamas, Bermuda and Barbados show that one can start with a country peopled with black africans and eventually get somewhere, but whatever tremendous efforts were applied in those 3 countries have not been applied in Haiti, not even close.
    , @Art Deco
    with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn’t a good thing the Cold war ended with such people “winning” it.

    Because Peronism has such a great record of accomplishment and the Arab paramilitaries are just so appealing.
    , @Lemurmaniac
    It's funny how European countries that were destroyed by other Europeans always rebuilt themselves. The British decimated the Irish elites, and yet today the ROI is a functional, first world country (until the Brits out, Blacks in policy reverses that).

    How about it Antoly? Would you say the Western rape of Russia in the nineties was akin to the real or imagined impact of White on Wog colonialism? If Russia can bounce back after 70 odd years of Judeo-Bolshevism, and then another 10 years of good goy capitalism, why can't the glorious civilizations of Africa do the same?
    , @Jim
    Haiti invaded, looted and occupied the Dominican Republic until thrown out about 1840. Haiti should be required to pay massive reparations to the Dominican Republic. Despite Haitian oppression the Dominicans are doing much better today than the Haitians.
    , @anon
    Didn't your country have to pay massive reparations after WW1? And also to Israel later? Wasn't Germany devastated after 1945? But look at it today. I can't buy the reparations argument. I am sure it did not help but come on.....
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  2. Dan Hayes says:

    Anatoly,

    Before kicking off its independence with literal white genocide, Haiti’s slave sugar plantations reportedly were the world’s most valuable real estate.

    The rest is history!

    Read More
    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    IIRC during the negotiations to end the 7 Years War, France was given the choice between keeping Canada or Guadaloupe, and chose Guadaloupe.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    I remember reading the stat somewhere that 1/3rd of the French Empire's GDP came from Haiti.
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  3. dfordoom says: • Website
    @German_reader
    Isn't the politically correct explanation that Haiti was held back in its development by having to pay massive reparations to France? Maybe not terribly convincing...but at least there might be some excuse for the country's dysfunctionality.
    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer's thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn't a good thing the Cold war ended with such people "winning" it.

    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer’s thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn’t a good thing the Cold war ended with such people “winning” it.

    Agreed. It turns out the Cold War wasn’t a struggle between the bad guys (the Soviets) and the good guys (the Americans). It was a struggle between the bad guys (the Soviets) and the much worse guys (the Americans).

    Read More
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  4. ogunsiron says:

    From a real ethnic haitian:

    Haiti is a shithole. It’s a dump.
    I’m glad my parents left and unlike 99% of poc living in the West, I am *extremely grateful*.

    As a colony, Haiti made a lot of money for France. So much that when France had to choose between keeping Canada and Haiti (then called St-Domingue), France chose St-Domingue. And lost it a few decades later anyway. It must be said that it was more or less a death camp for the black slaves, though.

    About the White genocide of 1804. It really happened, but there were a few exceptions:
    Some Polish mercenaries from Napoleon’s army had decided to join the haitian rebels for some reason. They were allowed to stay, received citizenship and eventually blended into the haitian population. I suppose they married into the mulatto group. A group of German merchants were also allowed to stay:

    The earliest known German settlement in Saint-Domingue was in Bombardopolis, south of the Môle-Saint-Nicolas. About a thousand Germans came to Bombardopolis in the eighteenth century and managed to make a living with growing coffee. They received Haitian citizenship from Jean-Jacques Dessalines after 1804, and gradually mixed with the rest of the population. Henri Christophe had German military engineers designed the Citadelle Laferrière and supervised its construction.[1]

    It says in the above that the Germans received citizenship from Dessalines, the butcher of the French population.

    I think that the main reason that Haiti is in a worse shape than it was in the 1940s is that virtually every smart or educated person has left. The richest mulatto/arab/german/danish families stayed in the country to manage their profitable businesses and the other educated people left. They left for the Usa, Quebec, Europe, etc. A country with very little human capital to start with chose to expel whatever talented individuals it harbored, starting from the 1960s. The result is that Haiti is as of 2018 a weird NGO laboratory but not really a country. Nothing makes sense there.

    Read More
    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @AP

    Some Polish mercenaries from Napoleon’s army had decided to join the haitian rebels for some reason. They were allowed to stay, received citizenship and eventually blended into the haitian population. I suppose they married into the mulatto group.
     
    I mentioned them on Sailer's blog. Poles were allied with Napoleon; some of the Polish soldiers were sent to crush the Haitian slaves but they felt kinship with them due to the idea of national liberation and switched sides. These soldiers, numbering several hundred, were given land grants and settled in Haiti. They married locally and after 200 years the descendants appear to be no more than 20% or so European (that is, as European as African-Americans, but more European than other Haitians who are much more African). Duvalier slaughtered a bunch of them in the 1960s.

    Polish language was lost, but some local expressions remain (to accomplish something successfully is "Chajé kou Lapologn" - charge like Polish cavalry)

    Haitian "Poles":

    http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2614/3683943703_109782fac1_o.jpg

    https://niezlomni.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/h15.jpg

    https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_800_800/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAVOAAAAJDk2NWZkZDcwLTQyMTYtNDgzMi1hYTBjLThhMjc5ZTg0M2U1NQ.jpg
    , @Daniel Chieh


    I think that the main reason that Haiti is in a worse shape than it was in the 1940s is that virtually every smart or educated person has left
     
    The unvirtuous cycle.

    The result is that Haiti is as of 2018 a weird NGO laboratory but not really a country.
     
    What are they trying to experiment for?
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  5. ogunsiron says:
    @German_reader
    Isn't the politically correct explanation that Haiti was held back in its development by having to pay massive reparations to France? Maybe not terribly convincing...but at least there might be some excuse for the country's dysfunctionality.
    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer's thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn't a good thing the Cold war ended with such people "winning" it.

    Bill (((Kristolnacht))) is despicable and evil.
    Erickson is just retarded and … just a soy sponge at this point.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. ogunsiron says:
    @German_reader
    Isn't the politically correct explanation that Haiti was held back in its development by having to pay massive reparations to France? Maybe not terribly convincing...but at least there might be some excuse for the country's dysfunctionality.
    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer's thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn't a good thing the Cold war ended with such people "winning" it.

    The french debt didn’t help, but my gut feeling is that Haiti is what it is because it’s an african country.
    A barely modified african nation. Bahamas, Bermuda and Barbados show that one can start with a country peopled with black africans and eventually get somewhere, but whatever tremendous efforts were applied in those 3 countries have not been applied in Haiti, not even close.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    Those countries had ~150 years of post-slavery fairly benevolant, paternalistic, British rule.

    Also, they are small, conservative, places.

    Paternalism + no large urban centres = functional Black society.

    , @German_reader
    Since you have family connections to Haiti, I'd like to ask: Is the general perception that voodoo and similar beliefs play a significant role there true or is it more of a myth at this point?
    I hope this isn't an offensive question, but it might be relevant since such beliefs can't be positive for development.
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  7. I like how Kristol is saying how the Norwegians “voted against us“. Who is “us”, Israel Firster? This is the same guy who openly attacks the white American working-class and calls them substandard and advocates for their active replacement.

    The fact that much of the mainstream American conservative movement can’t get rid of Israel Firsters who despise the founding stock of America says everything you need to know about how they have been hollowed out and corrupted. In any sane country, Kristol would have been deprived of his citizenship and shipped to Israel, since that is where his loyalty lies at any rate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Robjil
    Kristol voted against us on 911 by siding with his israel first team. He should be deprived of his citizenship for that. 911 was an israel first operation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGzeixUAzHc
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  8. @Dan Hayes
    Anatoly,

    Before kicking off its independence with literal white genocide, Haiti's slave sugar plantations reportedly were the world's most valuable real estate.

    The rest is history!

    IIRC during the negotiations to end the 7 Years War, France was given the choice between keeping Canada or Guadaloupe, and chose Guadaloupe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wency
    I believe the British actually preferred to take Canada, though it's still noteworthy that the two were considered to be of roughly comparable value.

    Small places that generate enormous amounts of wealth from exports generally produce more tax surplus than vast, thinly-populated wildernesses. So they're worth more to the central government.

    Vast wildernesses were generally worth more to the people though, who could temporarily escape the Malthusian trap by filling out the land with large farms that produced zero value for the central government while comfortably supporting large families.

    Those sugar islands made a handful of people very rich, while working enormous numbers of slaves to death.

    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Dan Hayes
    Anatoly,

    Before kicking off its independence with literal white genocide, Haiti's slave sugar plantations reportedly were the world's most valuable real estate.

    The rest is history!

    I remember reading the stat somewhere that 1/3rd of the French Empire’s GDP came from Haiti.

    Read More
    • Agree: Dan Hayes
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  10. Art Deco says:
    @German_reader
    Isn't the politically correct explanation that Haiti was held back in its development by having to pay massive reparations to France? Maybe not terribly convincing...but at least there might be some excuse for the country's dysfunctionality.
    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer's thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn't a good thing the Cold war ended with such people "winning" it.

    with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn’t a good thing the Cold war ended with such people “winning” it.

    Because Peronism has such a great record of accomplishment and the Arab paramilitaries are just so appealing.

    Read More
    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @German_reader

    Because Peronism has such a great record of accomplishment and the Arab paramilitaries are just so appealing.
     
    Ridiculous argument given the kind of movements and regimes the US supported during the Cold war...as if juntas throwing their opponents out of airplanes over the Atlantic or Islamic barbarians murdering female teachers were somehow morally superior to the movements you mentioned. Peronism and "Arab paramilitaries" also have little to do with the Soviet threat which supposedly was what the Cold war was all about, nice of you to admit that you feel the US has a right to meddle in other countries' affairs around the globe, even without the pretense of having to combat the big bad red empire.
    Personally I'm glad the Soviet Union doesn't occupy Eastern Europe anymore, but that's about it; I see no reason to join the triumphalist delusions of the US right whose record is utterly disastrous on every level and which can only be regarded as a failed movement.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    If you want to see a shithole, this one is. Literally.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I've always maintained that Indians are worse than niggers on average.
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  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I visited Haiti for 2 weeks 10 years ago. While the capital was a nightmare, the south coast was a surprisingly pleasant place. One of the most serene places I’ve been in the 3rd world. There is a small town on the coast called Jacmel. Extremely safe (saw a girl walking alone to the club at 1 am) and very clean (there was a very conscious effort by everyone to make the town spotless). And a really vibrant culture of art, music, and voodoo. I would go back if I had the chance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    I noticed the same thing about the same place. Jacmel is sort of the haitian version of a "hippy/swpl" town. Everyone in Haiti just knew that Jacmel was a special place with a very peaceful culture. Jacmel is the only place in Haiti where I saw White people walking around casually. I was told in Jacmel that it was safe, even for a foreigner, to walk around at night.

    In Port-Au-Prince, we, ethnic haitians but obviously not locals,were strongly discouraged from wandering around unaccompanied, even during the day.

    I've found it hard to come across reliable information about Haiti so I have no explanation for the Jacmel phenomenon. Basically, there is this town on the southern coast of Haiti that's been in its own bubble for decades and that's managed to run itself in a manner similar to the way Barbados is run. The towns locals are mostly black. There was a fair number of mulattoes there but it wasn't a mulatto town. I'm guessing that they keep the other haitians out. They should.

    , @anon
    There is more to Haiti though then just one town. I would say this is the exception that proves the rule.
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  13. @German_reader
    Isn't the politically correct explanation that Haiti was held back in its development by having to pay massive reparations to France? Maybe not terribly convincing...but at least there might be some excuse for the country's dysfunctionality.
    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer's thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn't a good thing the Cold war ended with such people "winning" it.

    It’s funny how European countries that were destroyed by other Europeans always rebuilt themselves. The British decimated the Irish elites, and yet today the ROI is a functional, first world country (until the Brits out, Blacks in policy reverses that).

    How about it Antoly? Would you say the Western rape of Russia in the nineties was akin to the real or imagined impact of White on Wog colonialism? If Russia can bounce back after 70 odd years of Judeo-Bolshevism, and then another 10 years of good goy capitalism, why can’t the glorious civilizations of Africa do the same?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Would you say the Western rape of Russia in the nineties was akin to the real or imagined impact of White on Wog colonialism?

    There was no "Western rape of Russia". There was Russian rape of other Russians (or more accurately Soviets stealing from other Soviet citizens) using Westerners as proxies, mostly gullible proxies. If you've spent time in Russia you would know that the idea of a German or American swindling a Russian out of anything is pretty laughable.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. @Lemurmaniac
    It's funny how European countries that were destroyed by other Europeans always rebuilt themselves. The British decimated the Irish elites, and yet today the ROI is a functional, first world country (until the Brits out, Blacks in policy reverses that).

    How about it Antoly? Would you say the Western rape of Russia in the nineties was akin to the real or imagined impact of White on Wog colonialism? If Russia can bounce back after 70 odd years of Judeo-Bolshevism, and then another 10 years of good goy capitalism, why can't the glorious civilizations of Africa do the same?

    Would you say the Western rape of Russia in the nineties was akin to the real or imagined impact of White on Wog colonialism?

    There was no “Western rape of Russia”. There was Russian rape of other Russians (or more accurately Soviets stealing from other Soviet citizens) using Westerners as proxies, mostly gullible proxies. If you’ve spent time in Russia you would know that the idea of a German or American swindling a Russian out of anything is pretty laughable.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DFH

    There was Russian rape of other Russians
     
    (((((((((((((Russian))))))))))))))))))))))
    , @reiner Tor

    the idea of a German or American swindling a Russian out of anything is pretty laughable.
     
    But what about the idea of a Jew swindling a Russian (or really, just about anyone) out of something?
    , @El Muchaco00
    'Jews Are Fighting and the Whole Country Has To Watch'
    Jews in Power or Jewish Power? The Captains of Russia's Post-Communist Economy Invited Uneasy Questions

    https://web.archive.org/web/20050306174251/http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.09.13/arts1.html
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  15. @ogunsiron
    The french debt didn't help, but my gut feeling is that Haiti is what it is because it's an african country.
    A barely modified african nation. Bahamas, Bermuda and Barbados show that one can start with a country peopled with black africans and eventually get somewhere, but whatever tremendous efforts were applied in those 3 countries have not been applied in Haiti, not even close.

    Those countries had ~150 years of post-slavery fairly benevolant, paternalistic, British rule.

    Also, they are small, conservative, places.

    Paternalism + no large urban centres = functional Black society.

    Read More
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  16. neutral says:

    Obviously Haiti is a shithole, however it is probably not wise to mention this in public as a politician, because international relations even with states like Haiti matter. Having said that, what is the best way to approach this? Obviously getting Haitian immigrants is very bad, so how does state this fact without getting the PC police and foreign nations too upset about this?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Yevardian

    Obviously Haiti is a shithole, however it is probably not wise to mention this in public as a politician, because international relations even with states like Haiti matter.
     
    How?
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  17. DFH says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Would you say the Western rape of Russia in the nineties was akin to the real or imagined impact of White on Wog colonialism?

    There was no "Western rape of Russia". There was Russian rape of other Russians (or more accurately Soviets stealing from other Soviet citizens) using Westerners as proxies, mostly gullible proxies. If you've spent time in Russia you would know that the idea of a German or American swindling a Russian out of anything is pretty laughable.

    There was Russian rape of other Russians

    (((((((((((((Russian))))))))))))))))))))))

    Read More
    • Agree: reiner Tor
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  18. @Peter Akuleyev
    Would you say the Western rape of Russia in the nineties was akin to the real or imagined impact of White on Wog colonialism?

    There was no "Western rape of Russia". There was Russian rape of other Russians (or more accurately Soviets stealing from other Soviet citizens) using Westerners as proxies, mostly gullible proxies. If you've spent time in Russia you would know that the idea of a German or American swindling a Russian out of anything is pretty laughable.

    the idea of a German or American swindling a Russian out of anything is pretty laughable.

    But what about the idea of a Jew swindling a Russian (or really, just about anyone) out of something?

    Read More
    • Replies: @neutral

    But what about the idea of a Jew swindling a Russian (or really, just about anyone) out of something?
     
    Like most other places the, Russians have been swindled into thinking that (((Russians))) are Russian.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. neutral says:
    @reiner Tor

    the idea of a German or American swindling a Russian out of anything is pretty laughable.
     
    But what about the idea of a Jew swindling a Russian (or really, just about anyone) out of something?

    But what about the idea of a Jew swindling a Russian (or really, just about anyone) out of something?

    Like most other places the, Russians have been swindled into thinking that (((Russians))) are Russian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    Like most other places the, Russians have been swindled into thinking that (((Russians))) are Russian

    It wasn't just Soviet Jews. Pretty much the whole Soviet nomenklatura was in on it, and divided up the spoils. Last I checked Nazarbayev, Aliyev, Lukashenko, Kravchuk, etc. aren't Jewish. That's why it is more accurate to talk about Soviet elites robbing Soviet citizens. As soon as Gorbachev started looking weak in the late 1980s everyone pounced and took whatever they could, and kept on taking, using Western NGOs and gullible businessmen for cover. Putin stopped the looting in Russia, but hasn't been in much of a hurry to return much to the people. A ridiculous amount of Soviet wealth is still in Western European banks and real-estate.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  20. Wency says:
    @jimmyriddle
    IIRC during the negotiations to end the 7 Years War, France was given the choice between keeping Canada or Guadaloupe, and chose Guadaloupe.

    I believe the British actually preferred to take Canada, though it’s still noteworthy that the two were considered to be of roughly comparable value.

    Small places that generate enormous amounts of wealth from exports generally produce more tax surplus than vast, thinly-populated wildernesses. So they’re worth more to the central government.

    Vast wildernesses were generally worth more to the people though, who could temporarily escape the Malthusian trap by filling out the land with large farms that produced zero value for the central government while comfortably supporting large families.

    Those sugar islands made a handful of people very rich, while working enormous numbers of slaves to death.

    Read More
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  21. AP says:
    @ogunsiron
    From a real ethnic haitian:

    Haiti is a shithole. It's a dump.
    I'm glad my parents left and unlike 99% of poc living in the West, I am *extremely grateful*.

    As a colony, Haiti made a lot of money for France. So much that when France had to choose between keeping Canada and Haiti (then called St-Domingue), France chose St-Domingue. And lost it a few decades later anyway. It must be said that it was more or less a death camp for the black slaves, though.

    About the White genocide of 1804. It really happened, but there were a few exceptions:
    Some Polish mercenaries from Napoleon's army had decided to join the haitian rebels for some reason. They were allowed to stay, received citizenship and eventually blended into the haitian population. I suppose they married into the mulatto group. A group of German merchants were also allowed to stay:

    The earliest known German settlement in Saint-Domingue was in Bombardopolis, south of the Môle-Saint-Nicolas. About a thousand Germans came to Bombardopolis in the eighteenth century and managed to make a living with growing coffee. They received Haitian citizenship from Jean-Jacques Dessalines after 1804, and gradually mixed with the rest of the population. Henri Christophe had German military engineers designed the Citadelle Laferrière and supervised its construction.[1]
     
    It says in the above that the Germans received citizenship from Dessalines, the butcher of the French population.

    I think that the main reason that Haiti is in a worse shape than it was in the 1940s is that virtually every smart or educated person has left. The richest mulatto/arab/german/danish families stayed in the country to manage their profitable businesses and the other educated people left. They left for the Usa, Quebec, Europe, etc. A country with very little human capital to start with chose to expel whatever talented individuals it harbored, starting from the 1960s. The result is that Haiti is as of 2018 a weird NGO laboratory but not really a country. Nothing makes sense there.

    Some Polish mercenaries from Napoleon’s army had decided to join the haitian rebels for some reason. They were allowed to stay, received citizenship and eventually blended into the haitian population. I suppose they married into the mulatto group.

    I mentioned them on Sailer’s blog. Poles were allied with Napoleon; some of the Polish soldiers were sent to crush the Haitian slaves but they felt kinship with them due to the idea of national liberation and switched sides. These soldiers, numbering several hundred, were given land grants and settled in Haiti. They married locally and after 200 years the descendants appear to be no more than 20% or so European (that is, as European as African-Americans, but more European than other Haitians who are much more African). Duvalier slaughtered a bunch of them in the 1960s.

    Polish language was lost, but some local expressions remain (to accomplish something successfully is “Chajé kou Lapologn” – charge like Polish cavalry)

    Haitian “Poles”:

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    Article if anyone is interested in this lost tribe:

    http://blog.swiatoslaw.com/?p=3806
    , @ogunsiron
    I had never heard that Papa Doc had massacred a bunch of the "Polish" Haitians.

    What I know of the Polish influence on haitian culture is the seemingly strange prevalence of the first name Vladimir and a commonly used condiment that looks exactly like polish fermented spicy cabbage.

    The German influence is strong in the first names department too. Where I live in Canada, if you're going to meet someone named Ernst, Fritz or Hans, you're probably meeting a haitian guy!
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  22. @ogunsiron
    From a real ethnic haitian:

    Haiti is a shithole. It's a dump.
    I'm glad my parents left and unlike 99% of poc living in the West, I am *extremely grateful*.

    As a colony, Haiti made a lot of money for France. So much that when France had to choose between keeping Canada and Haiti (then called St-Domingue), France chose St-Domingue. And lost it a few decades later anyway. It must be said that it was more or less a death camp for the black slaves, though.

    About the White genocide of 1804. It really happened, but there were a few exceptions:
    Some Polish mercenaries from Napoleon's army had decided to join the haitian rebels for some reason. They were allowed to stay, received citizenship and eventually blended into the haitian population. I suppose they married into the mulatto group. A group of German merchants were also allowed to stay:

    The earliest known German settlement in Saint-Domingue was in Bombardopolis, south of the Môle-Saint-Nicolas. About a thousand Germans came to Bombardopolis in the eighteenth century and managed to make a living with growing coffee. They received Haitian citizenship from Jean-Jacques Dessalines after 1804, and gradually mixed with the rest of the population. Henri Christophe had German military engineers designed the Citadelle Laferrière and supervised its construction.[1]
     
    It says in the above that the Germans received citizenship from Dessalines, the butcher of the French population.

    I think that the main reason that Haiti is in a worse shape than it was in the 1940s is that virtually every smart or educated person has left. The richest mulatto/arab/german/danish families stayed in the country to manage their profitable businesses and the other educated people left. They left for the Usa, Quebec, Europe, etc. A country with very little human capital to start with chose to expel whatever talented individuals it harbored, starting from the 1960s. The result is that Haiti is as of 2018 a weird NGO laboratory but not really a country. Nothing makes sense there.

    I think that the main reason that Haiti is in a worse shape than it was in the 1940s is that virtually every smart or educated person has left

    The unvirtuous cycle.

    The result is that Haiti is as of 2018 a weird NGO laboratory but not really a country.

    What are they trying to experiment for?

    Read More
    • Replies: @ogunsiron

    What are they trying to experiment for?
     
    Haiti is a place where NGOs go to spend their money (paying their own employees).
    They go there, go though the motions, pay their employees and keep doing that as long as the money is flowing. Why not ?

    I haven't had the time to research this but I've been hearing about haitian migrants showing up in places like Santiago, Chile and elsewhere in South-America.
    Makes me think that haitians might become the NGO/UN's favorite "migrant source" very soon. They would have no problem shipping them everywhere a particular people needs "diversity".

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  23. ogunsiron says:
    @Anonymous
    I visited Haiti for 2 weeks 10 years ago. While the capital was a nightmare, the south coast was a surprisingly pleasant place. One of the most serene places I've been in the 3rd world. There is a small town on the coast called Jacmel. Extremely safe (saw a girl walking alone to the club at 1 am) and very clean (there was a very conscious effort by everyone to make the town spotless). And a really vibrant culture of art, music, and voodoo. I would go back if I had the chance.

    I noticed the same thing about the same place. Jacmel is sort of the haitian version of a “hippy/swpl” town. Everyone in Haiti just knew that Jacmel was a special place with a very peaceful culture. Jacmel is the only place in Haiti where I saw White people walking around casually. I was told in Jacmel that it was safe, even for a foreigner, to walk around at night.

    In Port-Au-Prince, we, ethnic haitians but obviously not locals,were strongly discouraged from wandering around unaccompanied, even during the day.

    I’ve found it hard to come across reliable information about Haiti so I have no explanation for the Jacmel phenomenon. Basically, there is this town on the southern coast of Haiti that’s been in its own bubble for decades and that’s managed to run itself in a manner similar to the way Barbados is run. The towns locals are mostly black. There was a fair number of mulattoes there but it wasn’t a mulatto town. I’m guessing that they keep the other haitians out. They should.

    Read More
    • Replies: @El Dato

    managed to run itself in a manner similar to the way Barbados is run.
     
    Sounds like organized crime (or rather, "non-state actors") preferring to keep a tourist attraction going?

    Problems will be shipped out in large SUVs pronto.
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  24. AP says:
    @AP

    Some Polish mercenaries from Napoleon’s army had decided to join the haitian rebels for some reason. They were allowed to stay, received citizenship and eventually blended into the haitian population. I suppose they married into the mulatto group.
     
    I mentioned them on Sailer's blog. Poles were allied with Napoleon; some of the Polish soldiers were sent to crush the Haitian slaves but they felt kinship with them due to the idea of national liberation and switched sides. These soldiers, numbering several hundred, were given land grants and settled in Haiti. They married locally and after 200 years the descendants appear to be no more than 20% or so European (that is, as European as African-Americans, but more European than other Haitians who are much more African). Duvalier slaughtered a bunch of them in the 1960s.

    Polish language was lost, but some local expressions remain (to accomplish something successfully is "Chajé kou Lapologn" - charge like Polish cavalry)

    Haitian "Poles":

    http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2614/3683943703_109782fac1_o.jpg

    https://niezlomni.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/h15.jpg

    https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_800_800/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAVOAAAAJDk2NWZkZDcwLTQyMTYtNDgzMi1hYTBjLThhMjc5ZTg0M2U1NQ.jpg

    Article if anyone is interested in this lost tribe:

    http://blog.swiatoslaw.com/?p=3806

    Read More
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  25. ogunsiron says:
    @AP

    Some Polish mercenaries from Napoleon’s army had decided to join the haitian rebels for some reason. They were allowed to stay, received citizenship and eventually blended into the haitian population. I suppose they married into the mulatto group.
     
    I mentioned them on Sailer's blog. Poles were allied with Napoleon; some of the Polish soldiers were sent to crush the Haitian slaves but they felt kinship with them due to the idea of national liberation and switched sides. These soldiers, numbering several hundred, were given land grants and settled in Haiti. They married locally and after 200 years the descendants appear to be no more than 20% or so European (that is, as European as African-Americans, but more European than other Haitians who are much more African). Duvalier slaughtered a bunch of them in the 1960s.

    Polish language was lost, but some local expressions remain (to accomplish something successfully is "Chajé kou Lapologn" - charge like Polish cavalry)

    Haitian "Poles":

    http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2614/3683943703_109782fac1_o.jpg

    https://niezlomni.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/h15.jpg

    https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrinknp_800_800/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAVOAAAAJDk2NWZkZDcwLTQyMTYtNDgzMi1hYTBjLThhMjc5ZTg0M2U1NQ.jpg

    I had never heard that Papa Doc had massacred a bunch of the “Polish” Haitians.

    What I know of the Polish influence on haitian culture is the seemingly strange prevalence of the first name Vladimir and a commonly used condiment that looks exactly like polish fermented spicy cabbage.

    The German influence is strong in the first names department too. Where I live in Canada, if you’re going to meet someone named Ernst, Fritz or Hans, you’re probably meeting a haitian guy!

    Read More
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  26. ogunsiron says:
    @Daniel Chieh


    I think that the main reason that Haiti is in a worse shape than it was in the 1940s is that virtually every smart or educated person has left
     
    The unvirtuous cycle.

    The result is that Haiti is as of 2018 a weird NGO laboratory but not really a country.
     
    What are they trying to experiment for?

    What are they trying to experiment for?

    Haiti is a place where NGOs go to spend their money (paying their own employees).
    They go there, go though the motions, pay their employees and keep doing that as long as the money is flowing. Why not ?

    I haven’t had the time to research this but I’ve been hearing about haitian migrants showing up in places like Santiago, Chile and elsewhere in South-America.
    Makes me think that haitians might become the NGO/UN’s favorite “migrant source” very soon. They would have no problem shipping them everywhere a particular people needs “diversity”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    A way to launder money and "improve the world" simultaneously.

    Dreams do come true!

    For some.
    , @Sean

    .http://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article1942887.html

    Economist and Oxford University professor Paul Collier, who made headlines arguing that rebuilding Haiti’s garment assembly industry was a key to rebuilding the country, said: “You’ve got to see the environmental gains as well as environmental losses.”

    “We know who is endangered in Haiti without looking under the stones to find the shy lizards. It’s the people,” said Collier. “It’s imperative to relocate as many Haitians by developing new centers of economic activities.”

    Collier said “it’s hypocritical” of people living in cities in the United States and elsewhere to expect Haiti to not build cities where people are productive.

    “There is massive environmental degradation across Haiti because too many people are desperately trying to get a living out of the country,” he said.
     
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    Yup, many of them in Brazil, already being used by the local NGOs to guilt-trip the natives into recognizing their own "priviledge". Of course, one can always expiate this original sin by giving money to the NGOs, for them to bring even more Haitians...

    It is all very sad, really, as neither the politically correct government hacks nor the corrupt NGOs actually care about their "immigrants". Temporary immigrant reception centers are a mess, documentation is a mess, and the labour market is difficult for them due to the language barrier.
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  27. @ogunsiron

    What are they trying to experiment for?
     
    Haiti is a place where NGOs go to spend their money (paying their own employees).
    They go there, go though the motions, pay their employees and keep doing that as long as the money is flowing. Why not ?

    I haven't had the time to research this but I've been hearing about haitian migrants showing up in places like Santiago, Chile and elsewhere in South-America.
    Makes me think that haitians might become the NGO/UN's favorite "migrant source" very soon. They would have no problem shipping them everywhere a particular people needs "diversity".

    A way to launder money and “improve the world” simultaneously.

    Dreams do come true!

    For some.

    Read More
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  28. @neutral

    But what about the idea of a Jew swindling a Russian (or really, just about anyone) out of something?
     
    Like most other places the, Russians have been swindled into thinking that (((Russians))) are Russian.

    Like most other places the, Russians have been swindled into thinking that (((Russians))) are Russian

    It wasn’t just Soviet Jews. Pretty much the whole Soviet nomenklatura was in on it, and divided up the spoils. Last I checked Nazarbayev, Aliyev, Lukashenko, Kravchuk, etc. aren’t Jewish. That’s why it is more accurate to talk about Soviet elites robbing Soviet citizens. As soon as Gorbachev started looking weak in the late 1980s everyone pounced and took whatever they could, and kept on taking, using Western NGOs and gullible businessmen for cover. Putin stopped the looting in Russia, but hasn’t been in much of a hurry to return much to the people. A ridiculous amount of Soviet wealth is still in Western European banks and real-estate.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    A ridiculous amount of Soviet wealth is still in Western European banks and real-estate.
     
    If that's true, this makes the below video even more sad.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJeMrmS3e1M

    AKA: how to end your political future in a few sentences.
    , @DFH
    Almost all of the big 'Russian' oligarchs were Jews though, as we both know, despite Russia being under 1% Russian.
    Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky, Fridman, Aven, Gusinsky, Abramovich.
    The late Soviet elite was nowhere near that disproportionately Jewish.
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  29. @Peter Akuleyev
    Like most other places the, Russians have been swindled into thinking that (((Russians))) are Russian

    It wasn't just Soviet Jews. Pretty much the whole Soviet nomenklatura was in on it, and divided up the spoils. Last I checked Nazarbayev, Aliyev, Lukashenko, Kravchuk, etc. aren't Jewish. That's why it is more accurate to talk about Soviet elites robbing Soviet citizens. As soon as Gorbachev started looking weak in the late 1980s everyone pounced and took whatever they could, and kept on taking, using Western NGOs and gullible businessmen for cover. Putin stopped the looting in Russia, but hasn't been in much of a hurry to return much to the people. A ridiculous amount of Soviet wealth is still in Western European banks and real-estate.

    A ridiculous amount of Soviet wealth is still in Western European banks and real-estate.

    If that’s true, this makes the below video even more sad.

    AKA: how to end your political future in a few sentences.

    Read More
    • Agree: Mr. Hack
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  30. Jim says:
    @German_reader
    Isn't the politically correct explanation that Haiti was held back in its development by having to pay massive reparations to France? Maybe not terribly convincing...but at least there might be some excuse for the country's dysfunctionality.
    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer's thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn't a good thing the Cold war ended with such people "winning" it.

    Haiti invaded, looted and occupied the Dominican Republic until thrown out about 1840. Haiti should be required to pay massive reparations to the Dominican Republic. Despite Haitian oppression the Dominicans are doing much better today than the Haitians.

    Read More
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  31. DFH says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    Like most other places the, Russians have been swindled into thinking that (((Russians))) are Russian

    It wasn't just Soviet Jews. Pretty much the whole Soviet nomenklatura was in on it, and divided up the spoils. Last I checked Nazarbayev, Aliyev, Lukashenko, Kravchuk, etc. aren't Jewish. That's why it is more accurate to talk about Soviet elites robbing Soviet citizens. As soon as Gorbachev started looking weak in the late 1980s everyone pounced and took whatever they could, and kept on taking, using Western NGOs and gullible businessmen for cover. Putin stopped the looting in Russia, but hasn't been in much of a hurry to return much to the people. A ridiculous amount of Soviet wealth is still in Western European banks and real-estate.

    Almost all of the big ‘Russian’ oligarchs were Jews though, as we both know, despite Russia being under 1% Russian.
    Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky, Fridman, Aven, Gusinsky, Abramovich.
    The late Soviet elite was nowhere near that disproportionately Jewish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    The Soviet nomenklatura of course did do very well for itself, but their post-Soviet fortunes are generally counted in the tens of millions, not the billions.

    6/7 of the Semibankirschina that semi-ruled Russia in the late 1990s were Jewish - Potanin was the sole pure Russian, the "golden boy" of the Soviet foreign policy establishment, and incidentally also the single richest representative of that "nomenklatura" class.

    The story since 2000 has been one of the 1990s predominantly Jewish economic elite getting replaced with Russians: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-billionaires-2017/
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  32. @DFH
    Almost all of the big 'Russian' oligarchs were Jews though, as we both know, despite Russia being under 1% Russian.
    Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky, Fridman, Aven, Gusinsky, Abramovich.
    The late Soviet elite was nowhere near that disproportionately Jewish.

    The Soviet nomenklatura of course did do very well for itself, but their post-Soviet fortunes are generally counted in the tens of millions, not the billions.

    6/7 of the Semibankirschina that semi-ruled Russia in the late 1990s were Jewish – Potanin was the sole pure Russian, the “golden boy” of the Soviet foreign policy establishment, and incidentally also the single richest representative of that “nomenklatura” class.

    The story since 2000 has been one of the 1990s predominantly Jewish economic elite getting replaced with Russians: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-billionaires-2017/

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    The story since 2000 has been one of the 1990s predominantly Jewish economic elite getting replaced with Russians:

    Late 1940's Stalin redux?
    , @inertial
    Sorry, but this is just not true. Plenty of the old Soviet nomenklatura had become super-rich.

    What about the old Soviet gas/oil ministers like Chernomyrdin or Alekperov? Or the last Soviet Minister of Economics Vladimir Shcherbakov? All went on to become billionaires.

    Or how about heads of rich and important regions? E.g. Shaimiev, whose two sons are both billionaires. I would add Luzhkov here as well. Don't know if he counts as Soviet nomenklatura but he is a billionaire (technically his wife) and he was certainly an oligarch during the 1990s.

    Jews predominated only among a certain subset of oligarchs, the bankers. But there were plenty of other types who were just as influential (or more) and generally non-Jewish. They had better survival rates, too (those that didn't die of old age.)
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  33. @Art Deco
    with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn’t a good thing the Cold war ended with such people “winning” it.

    Because Peronism has such a great record of accomplishment and the Arab paramilitaries are just so appealing.

    Because Peronism has such a great record of accomplishment and the Arab paramilitaries are just so appealing.

    Ridiculous argument given the kind of movements and regimes the US supported during the Cold war…as if juntas throwing their opponents out of airplanes over the Atlantic or Islamic barbarians murdering female teachers were somehow morally superior to the movements you mentioned. Peronism and “Arab paramilitaries” also have little to do with the Soviet threat which supposedly was what the Cold war was all about, nice of you to admit that you feel the US has a right to meddle in other countries’ affairs around the globe, even without the pretense of having to combat the big bad red empire.
    Personally I’m glad the Soviet Union doesn’t occupy Eastern Europe anymore, but that’s about it; I see no reason to join the triumphalist delusions of the US right whose record is utterly disastrous on every level and which can only be regarded as a failed movement.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Ridiculous argument given the kind of movements and regimes the US supported during the Cold war…as if juntas throwing their opponents out of airplanes over the Atlantic or Islamic barbarians murdering female teachers were somehow morally superior to the movements you mentioned.

    "Support" = had ordinary diplomatic and trade relations with a government of the modal type in a given region. These complaints are almost invariably used to make a dishonest polemical point.

    , @Art Deco
    nice of you to admit that you feel the US has a right to meddle in other countries’ affairs around the globe, even without the pretense of having to combat the big bad red empire.

    The complaints about 'meddling' come from witless occidental lumpenintellectuals taking their cues from witless 3d world lumpenintellectuals who wanted to stick the bill for their countries' dysfunctions with Uncle Sam. Beats taking responsibility and getting your act together. The CIA station in your country's capital is not your problem. Your muddled cadastre, your useless court system, your extortionate police services, your mercantilist public bureaucracies, and your ineffectual schools are your problem.
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  34. @ogunsiron
    The french debt didn't help, but my gut feeling is that Haiti is what it is because it's an african country.
    A barely modified african nation. Bahamas, Bermuda and Barbados show that one can start with a country peopled with black africans and eventually get somewhere, but whatever tremendous efforts were applied in those 3 countries have not been applied in Haiti, not even close.

    Since you have family connections to Haiti, I’d like to ask: Is the general perception that voodoo and similar beliefs play a significant role there true or is it more of a myth at this point?
    I hope this isn’t an offensive question, but it might be relevant since such beliefs can’t be positive for development.

    Read More
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  35. iffen says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    The Soviet nomenklatura of course did do very well for itself, but their post-Soviet fortunes are generally counted in the tens of millions, not the billions.

    6/7 of the Semibankirschina that semi-ruled Russia in the late 1990s were Jewish - Potanin was the sole pure Russian, the "golden boy" of the Soviet foreign policy establishment, and incidentally also the single richest representative of that "nomenklatura" class.

    The story since 2000 has been one of the 1990s predominantly Jewish economic elite getting replaced with Russians: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-billionaires-2017/

    The story since 2000 has been one of the 1990s predominantly Jewish economic elite getting replaced with Russians:

    Late 1940′s Stalin redux?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jtgw
    Was going to say the same thing! Plus ça change...
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  36. Art Deco says:
    @German_reader

    Because Peronism has such a great record of accomplishment and the Arab paramilitaries are just so appealing.
     
    Ridiculous argument given the kind of movements and regimes the US supported during the Cold war...as if juntas throwing their opponents out of airplanes over the Atlantic or Islamic barbarians murdering female teachers were somehow morally superior to the movements you mentioned. Peronism and "Arab paramilitaries" also have little to do with the Soviet threat which supposedly was what the Cold war was all about, nice of you to admit that you feel the US has a right to meddle in other countries' affairs around the globe, even without the pretense of having to combat the big bad red empire.
    Personally I'm glad the Soviet Union doesn't occupy Eastern Europe anymore, but that's about it; I see no reason to join the triumphalist delusions of the US right whose record is utterly disastrous on every level and which can only be regarded as a failed movement.

    Ridiculous argument given the kind of movements and regimes the US supported during the Cold war…as if juntas throwing their opponents out of airplanes over the Atlantic or Islamic barbarians murdering female teachers were somehow morally superior to the movements you mentioned.

    “Support” = had ordinary diplomatic and trade relations with a government of the modal type in a given region. These complaints are almost invariably used to make a dishonest polemical point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader

    “Support” = had ordinary diplomatic and trade relations with a government of the modal type in a given region.
     
    http://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/28/opinion/school-of-the-dictators.html

    And actions like the 1954 coup in Guatemala can hardly be described as "ordinary diplomatic and trade relations".
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  37. Art Deco says:
    @German_reader

    Because Peronism has such a great record of accomplishment and the Arab paramilitaries are just so appealing.
     
    Ridiculous argument given the kind of movements and regimes the US supported during the Cold war...as if juntas throwing their opponents out of airplanes over the Atlantic or Islamic barbarians murdering female teachers were somehow morally superior to the movements you mentioned. Peronism and "Arab paramilitaries" also have little to do with the Soviet threat which supposedly was what the Cold war was all about, nice of you to admit that you feel the US has a right to meddle in other countries' affairs around the globe, even without the pretense of having to combat the big bad red empire.
    Personally I'm glad the Soviet Union doesn't occupy Eastern Europe anymore, but that's about it; I see no reason to join the triumphalist delusions of the US right whose record is utterly disastrous on every level and which can only be regarded as a failed movement.

    nice of you to admit that you feel the US has a right to meddle in other countries’ affairs around the globe, even without the pretense of having to combat the big bad red empire.

    The complaints about ‘meddling’ come from witless occidental lumpenintellectuals taking their cues from witless 3d world lumpenintellectuals who wanted to stick the bill for their countries’ dysfunctions with Uncle Sam. Beats taking responsibility and getting your act together. The CIA station in your country’s capital is not your problem. Your muddled cadastre, your useless court system, your extortionate police services, your mercantilist public bureaucracies, and your ineffectual schools are your problem.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Your muddled cadastre, your useless court system, your extortionate police services, your mercantilist public bureaucracies, and your ineffectual schools are your problem.
     
    And none of those would be helped by the appearance of the CIA.

    I think you deeply underestimate the ability of intelligence agencies to cause chaos, especially at some points when the CIA had gotten unmoored from supervision, was trafficking drugs, and generally engaging in ridiculous behavior. They're very incompetent at actually building anything like a democracy, but throwing matches into political pools of gasoline? Easy. Fun. And very unhelpful.

    Crushing the CIA-funded NGOs in China was absolutely necessary.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

    Are these the kind of "friends" you feel should be in your country, helping things along?

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  38. @Art Deco
    Ridiculous argument given the kind of movements and regimes the US supported during the Cold war…as if juntas throwing their opponents out of airplanes over the Atlantic or Islamic barbarians murdering female teachers were somehow morally superior to the movements you mentioned.

    "Support" = had ordinary diplomatic and trade relations with a government of the modal type in a given region. These complaints are almost invariably used to make a dishonest polemical point.

    “Support” = had ordinary diplomatic and trade relations with a government of the modal type in a given region.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/28/opinion/school-of-the-dictators.html

    And actions like the 1954 coup in Guatemala can hardly be described as “ordinary diplomatic and trade relations”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The New York Times consists of editorial matter produced and consumed by the sort of people who fancy that the institutional culture of Latin American militaries is attributable to such things as Roberto D'Aubuissson's six week course in radio repair at the School of the Americas. They're not serious and no person engaging in those witless protests against the School of the Americas merits being taken seriously.

    Guatemala and Iran are the go-to examples by people engaging in this sort of discourse (some of the more sophisticated will add Syria in 1949 and some of those more inclined to political fiction will mention Chile in 1973). They are the go-to examples because there are hardly any other examples.

    Of course, there's hardly a single example of a Near Eastern, North African, or Central Asian state which had a consistently functioning set of electoral institutions during the period running from 1949 to 1978 and there's no reason to believe Iran would have had such either, Operation Ajax or no (Mohammed Mossadeq had already prorogued the country's legislature and was attempting to overthrow the monarchy). Iran's never been a dependency of any European power and was not during the period running from 1953 to 1978 governed more severely than the mode in the Near East, but that doesn't prevent it's political class from being witlessly revanchist.

    As for Guatemala, it's experience with constitutional government and the like between 1833 and 1944 sums to nil. It's conceivable that the political machine state erected by Arevalo and Arbenz in 1944-54 would have evolved in a constitutionalist direction (it operated more like the Mexican PRI) and it's conceivable that the country's intramural economic disputes (which revolved around demagogues making a scapegoat of the United Fruit Company - keep in mind that Arevalo was an academic and Arbenz a soldier) might have been ameliorated without wrecking the country's productive base. Of course, it's also possible that Guatemala might have by 1964 looked like Venezuela does today. You can make a passable argument that the country's political after 1954 was distorted and disfigured by the detritus of the 1954 coup, but the usual complaints treat the events occurring over a 30-odd year period of time as if they were ineluctible, which of course they were not.

    That's two down and 160-odd 3d world countries left to go.
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  39. @Art Deco
    nice of you to admit that you feel the US has a right to meddle in other countries’ affairs around the globe, even without the pretense of having to combat the big bad red empire.

    The complaints about 'meddling' come from witless occidental lumpenintellectuals taking their cues from witless 3d world lumpenintellectuals who wanted to stick the bill for their countries' dysfunctions with Uncle Sam. Beats taking responsibility and getting your act together. The CIA station in your country's capital is not your problem. Your muddled cadastre, your useless court system, your extortionate police services, your mercantilist public bureaucracies, and your ineffectual schools are your problem.

    Your muddled cadastre, your useless court system, your extortionate police services, your mercantilist public bureaucracies, and your ineffectual schools are your problem.

    And none of those would be helped by the appearance of the CIA.

    I think you deeply underestimate the ability of intelligence agencies to cause chaos, especially at some points when the CIA had gotten unmoored from supervision, was trafficking drugs, and generally engaging in ridiculous behavior. They’re very incompetent at actually building anything like a democracy, but throwing matches into political pools of gasoline? Easy. Fun. And very unhelpful.

    Crushing the CIA-funded NGOs in China was absolutely necessary.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

    Are these the kind of “friends” you feel should be in your country, helping things along?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    And none of those would be helped by the appearance of the CIA.

    So what? The purpose of the CIA isn't to 'help'. It's to collect information for policymakers. It had a clandestine services wing, but that was a sideline. See the writing of Reuel Marc Gerecht on the day-to-day business of working for the CIA. His thesis: it's yet another ineffective public bureaucracy. They hired Aldrich Ames. They hired Michael Scheuer. They hired Philip Giraldi (or so he says).


    I think you deeply underestimate the ability of intelligence agencies to cause chaos,

    No, you overestimate them. This site is shot through with people who fancy conspiracies run the world and that they're Gnostic adepts because they see through what the wire-pullers are doing. The only thing they're seeing is the issue of their imagination.

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  40. Art Deco says:
    @German_reader

    “Support” = had ordinary diplomatic and trade relations with a government of the modal type in a given region.
     
    http://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/28/opinion/school-of-the-dictators.html

    And actions like the 1954 coup in Guatemala can hardly be described as "ordinary diplomatic and trade relations".

    The New York Times consists of editorial matter produced and consumed by the sort of people who fancy that the institutional culture of Latin American militaries is attributable to such things as Roberto D’Aubuissson’s six week course in radio repair at the School of the Americas. They’re not serious and no person engaging in those witless protests against the School of the Americas merits being taken seriously.

    Guatemala and Iran are the go-to examples by people engaging in this sort of discourse (some of the more sophisticated will add Syria in 1949 and some of those more inclined to political fiction will mention Chile in 1973). They are the go-to examples because there are hardly any other examples.

    Of course, there’s hardly a single example of a Near Eastern, North African, or Central Asian state which had a consistently functioning set of electoral institutions during the period running from 1949 to 1978 and there’s no reason to believe Iran would have had such either, Operation Ajax or no (Mohammed Mossadeq had already prorogued the country’s legislature and was attempting to overthrow the monarchy). Iran’s never been a dependency of any European power and was not during the period running from 1953 to 1978 governed more severely than the mode in the Near East, but that doesn’t prevent it’s political class from being witlessly revanchist.

    As for Guatemala, it’s experience with constitutional government and the like between 1833 and 1944 sums to nil. It’s conceivable that the political machine state erected by Arevalo and Arbenz in 1944-54 would have evolved in a constitutionalist direction (it operated more like the Mexican PRI) and it’s conceivable that the country’s intramural economic disputes (which revolved around demagogues making a scapegoat of the United Fruit Company – keep in mind that Arevalo was an academic and Arbenz a soldier) might have been ameliorated without wrecking the country’s productive base. Of course, it’s also possible that Guatemala might have by 1964 looked like Venezuela does today. You can make a passable argument that the country’s political after 1954 was distorted and disfigured by the detritus of the 1954 coup, but the usual complaints treat the events occurring over a 30-odd year period of time as if they were ineluctible, which of course they were not.

    That’s two down and 160-odd 3d world countries left to go.

    Read More
    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Robjil
    Here is the reason Guatemala voted the way it did at the UN and why it is wants to have an embassy in Jerusalem so bad.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TULycxtZILA
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  41. Art Deco says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Your muddled cadastre, your useless court system, your extortionate police services, your mercantilist public bureaucracies, and your ineffectual schools are your problem.
     
    And none of those would be helped by the appearance of the CIA.

    I think you deeply underestimate the ability of intelligence agencies to cause chaos, especially at some points when the CIA had gotten unmoored from supervision, was trafficking drugs, and generally engaging in ridiculous behavior. They're very incompetent at actually building anything like a democracy, but throwing matches into political pools of gasoline? Easy. Fun. And very unhelpful.

    Crushing the CIA-funded NGOs in China was absolutely necessary.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking

    Are these the kind of "friends" you feel should be in your country, helping things along?

    And none of those would be helped by the appearance of the CIA.

    So what? The purpose of the CIA isn’t to ‘help’. It’s to collect information for policymakers. It had a clandestine services wing, but that was a sideline. See the writing of Reuel Marc Gerecht on the day-to-day business of working for the CIA. His thesis: it’s yet another ineffective public bureaucracy. They hired Aldrich Ames. They hired Michael Scheuer. They hired Philip Giraldi (or so he says).

    I think you deeply underestimate the ability of intelligence agencies to cause chaos,

    No, you overestimate them. This site is shot through with people who fancy conspiracies run the world and that they’re Gnostic adepts because they see through what the wire-pullers are doing. The only thing they’re seeing is the issue of their imagination.

    Read More
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  42. Robjil says:
    @Polish Perspective
    I like how Kristol is saying how the Norwegians "voted against us". Who is "us", Israel Firster? This is the same guy who openly attacks the white American working-class and calls them substandard and advocates for their active replacement.

    The fact that much of the mainstream American conservative movement can't get rid of Israel Firsters who despise the founding stock of America says everything you need to know about how they have been hollowed out and corrupted. In any sane country, Kristol would have been deprived of his citizenship and shipped to Israel, since that is where his loyalty lies at any rate.

    Kristol voted against us on 911 by siding with his israel first team. He should be deprived of his citizenship for that. 911 was an israel first operation.

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  43. Robjil says:
    @Art Deco
    The New York Times consists of editorial matter produced and consumed by the sort of people who fancy that the institutional culture of Latin American militaries is attributable to such things as Roberto D'Aubuissson's six week course in radio repair at the School of the Americas. They're not serious and no person engaging in those witless protests against the School of the Americas merits being taken seriously.

    Guatemala and Iran are the go-to examples by people engaging in this sort of discourse (some of the more sophisticated will add Syria in 1949 and some of those more inclined to political fiction will mention Chile in 1973). They are the go-to examples because there are hardly any other examples.

    Of course, there's hardly a single example of a Near Eastern, North African, or Central Asian state which had a consistently functioning set of electoral institutions during the period running from 1949 to 1978 and there's no reason to believe Iran would have had such either, Operation Ajax or no (Mohammed Mossadeq had already prorogued the country's legislature and was attempting to overthrow the monarchy). Iran's never been a dependency of any European power and was not during the period running from 1953 to 1978 governed more severely than the mode in the Near East, but that doesn't prevent it's political class from being witlessly revanchist.

    As for Guatemala, it's experience with constitutional government and the like between 1833 and 1944 sums to nil. It's conceivable that the political machine state erected by Arevalo and Arbenz in 1944-54 would have evolved in a constitutionalist direction (it operated more like the Mexican PRI) and it's conceivable that the country's intramural economic disputes (which revolved around demagogues making a scapegoat of the United Fruit Company - keep in mind that Arevalo was an academic and Arbenz a soldier) might have been ameliorated without wrecking the country's productive base. Of course, it's also possible that Guatemala might have by 1964 looked like Venezuela does today. You can make a passable argument that the country's political after 1954 was distorted and disfigured by the detritus of the 1954 coup, but the usual complaints treat the events occurring over a 30-odd year period of time as if they were ineluctible, which of course they were not.

    That's two down and 160-odd 3d world countries left to go.

    Here is the reason Guatemala voted the way it did at the UN and why it is wants to have an embassy in Jerusalem so bad.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Thanks for outing yourself as a Dunning-Kruger exemplar. It's been a laugh.
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  44. inertial says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    The Soviet nomenklatura of course did do very well for itself, but their post-Soviet fortunes are generally counted in the tens of millions, not the billions.

    6/7 of the Semibankirschina that semi-ruled Russia in the late 1990s were Jewish - Potanin was the sole pure Russian, the "golden boy" of the Soviet foreign policy establishment, and incidentally also the single richest representative of that "nomenklatura" class.

    The story since 2000 has been one of the 1990s predominantly Jewish economic elite getting replaced with Russians: http://www.unz.com/akarlin/russian-billionaires-2017/

    Sorry, but this is just not true. Plenty of the old Soviet nomenklatura had become super-rich.

    What about the old Soviet gas/oil ministers like Chernomyrdin or Alekperov? Or the last Soviet Minister of Economics Vladimir Shcherbakov? All went on to become billionaires.

    Or how about heads of rich and important regions? E.g. Shaimiev, whose two sons are both billionaires. I would add Luzhkov here as well. Don’t know if he counts as Soviet nomenklatura but he is a billionaire (technically his wife) and he was certainly an oligarch during the 1990s.

    Jews predominated only among a certain subset of oligarchs, the bankers. But there were plenty of other types who were just as influential (or more) and generally non-Jewish. They had better survival rates, too (those that didn’t die of old age.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    Jews predominated only among a certain subset of oligarchs, the bankers.
     
    They also controlled most of the media, much of the oil industry and other extraction industries, and had ties to things like the auto industry. There were some other influential or very rich people, who were mostly not Jewish, but still.
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  45. Art Deco says:
    @Robjil
    Here is the reason Guatemala voted the way it did at the UN and why it is wants to have an embassy in Jerusalem so bad.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TULycxtZILA

    Thanks for outing yourself as a Dunning-Kruger exemplar. It’s been a laugh.

    Read More
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  46. El Dato says:
    @ogunsiron
    I noticed the same thing about the same place. Jacmel is sort of the haitian version of a "hippy/swpl" town. Everyone in Haiti just knew that Jacmel was a special place with a very peaceful culture. Jacmel is the only place in Haiti where I saw White people walking around casually. I was told in Jacmel that it was safe, even for a foreigner, to walk around at night.

    In Port-Au-Prince, we, ethnic haitians but obviously not locals,were strongly discouraged from wandering around unaccompanied, even during the day.

    I've found it hard to come across reliable information about Haiti so I have no explanation for the Jacmel phenomenon. Basically, there is this town on the southern coast of Haiti that's been in its own bubble for decades and that's managed to run itself in a manner similar to the way Barbados is run. The towns locals are mostly black. There was a fair number of mulattoes there but it wasn't a mulatto town. I'm guessing that they keep the other haitians out. They should.

    managed to run itself in a manner similar to the way Barbados is run.

    Sounds like organized crime (or rather, “non-state actors”) preferring to keep a tourist attraction going?

    Problems will be shipped out in large SUVs pronto.

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  47. @inertial
    Sorry, but this is just not true. Plenty of the old Soviet nomenklatura had become super-rich.

    What about the old Soviet gas/oil ministers like Chernomyrdin or Alekperov? Or the last Soviet Minister of Economics Vladimir Shcherbakov? All went on to become billionaires.

    Or how about heads of rich and important regions? E.g. Shaimiev, whose two sons are both billionaires. I would add Luzhkov here as well. Don't know if he counts as Soviet nomenklatura but he is a billionaire (technically his wife) and he was certainly an oligarch during the 1990s.

    Jews predominated only among a certain subset of oligarchs, the bankers. But there were plenty of other types who were just as influential (or more) and generally non-Jewish. They had better survival rates, too (those that didn't die of old age.)

    Jews predominated only among a certain subset of oligarchs, the bankers.

    They also controlled most of the media, much of the oil industry and other extraction industries, and had ties to things like the auto industry. There were some other influential or very rich people, who were mostly not Jewish, but still.

    Read More
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  48. Yevardian says:

    Please tell me that S&P post is sarcasm. Please.

    Ogunsiron: Didn’t you say you were Nigerian in some other thread?

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  49. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    If you want to see a shithole, this one is. Literally.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=2kIrHgKlSnY

    I’ve always maintained that Indians are worse than niggers on average.

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  50. Yevardian says:
    @neutral
    Obviously Haiti is a shithole, however it is probably not wise to mention this in public as a politician, because international relations even with states like Haiti matter. Having said that, what is the best way to approach this? Obviously getting Haitian immigrants is very bad, so how does state this fact without getting the PC police and foreign nations too upset about this?

    Obviously Haiti is a shithole, however it is probably not wise to mention this in public as a politician, because international relations even with states like Haiti matter.

    How?

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  51. Every country settled by blacks is shithole. Nothing personal, just life as is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Every country settled by blacks is shithole.

    Again, there are quite an array of Caribbean islands who get along just fine.
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  52. Art Deco says:
    @Bardon Kaldian
    Every country settled by blacks is shithole. Nothing personal, just life as is.

    Every country settled by blacks is shithole.

    Again, there are quite an array of Caribbean islands who get along just fine.

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  53. jtgw says:
    @iffen
    The story since 2000 has been one of the 1990s predominantly Jewish economic elite getting replaced with Russians:

    Late 1940's Stalin redux?

    Was going to say the same thing! Plus ça change…

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  54. Is Haiti a Shithole?

    But why do people use the term shithole?

    You Probably Don’t Want To Know About Haiti’s Sewage Problems
    …Port-au-Prince, Haiti, is one of the largest cities in the world without a central sewage system. There are no sewers connecting sinks, showers and toilets to hulking wastewater treatment plants. Most of the more than 3 million people in the metro area use outhouses

    Haiti’s ‘Bayakou’: Hauling Away Human Excrement By Hand

    Video: Dirty job shows why cholera still kills in Haiti
    …They squeeze into a cramped outhouse with a reeking pit to scoop buckets of human excrement with their bare hands.
    It’s just another night’s work for this four-man team of “bayakou”

    Read More
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    Pit latrines in India are still dug out (with spades IIRC) by hand. It's a problem because only Dalits can do it (caste system).
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  55. Michelle says:

    After years of Liberal rule, San Francisco and Oakland, California are also “Shitholes”, literally. I have to step over human shit to get to my job, unless the custodial staff have hosed down the doorways before I arrive. I have to gaze out upon shit stained walls if I chance to look out my window. Sometimes, I even get to see people shitting and pissing in public. A few weeks ago, as I passed by an elementary school in Chinatown, I, and a dozen tiny Chinese children and their mothers, got to witness a Black guy shaking out his huge member after pissing on a bush in the school yard. Every day I walk past the school and see it littered with shitty toilet paper and newspaper. The smell of piss permeates most of the doorways of the downtown businesses. The Chinese do tai chi in a park that smells like an outhouse. Some of the elderly Chinese women will drop trow and pee in the gutters. We are truly becoming like a third world country.

    Seriously, there was a time when even the homeless in America were civilized and had manners. A co-worker of mine, a former crack addict, told me that when he and his homies used to drink on the street corners, whenever a woman walked by, they would put the liquor bottles they were drinking from, which were already hidden in a brown paper bag, behind their backs to hide them. Those days are long gone.

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  56. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    I visited Haiti for 2 weeks 10 years ago. While the capital was a nightmare, the south coast was a surprisingly pleasant place. One of the most serene places I've been in the 3rd world. There is a small town on the coast called Jacmel. Extremely safe (saw a girl walking alone to the club at 1 am) and very clean (there was a very conscious effort by everyone to make the town spotless). And a really vibrant culture of art, music, and voodoo. I would go back if I had the chance.

    There is more to Haiti though then just one town. I would say this is the exception that proves the rule.

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  57. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @German_reader
    Isn't the politically correct explanation that Haiti was held back in its development by having to pay massive reparations to France? Maybe not terribly convincing...but at least there might be some excuse for the country's dysfunctionality.
    As for Bill Kristol and that Erickson person cited in Sailer's thread, just shows how utterly despicable the American right is, with its stupid worship of free markets and its Israel-love. In retrospect it probably wasn't a good thing the Cold war ended with such people "winning" it.

    Didn’t your country have to pay massive reparations after WW1? And also to Israel later? Wasn’t Germany devastated after 1945? But look at it today. I can’t buy the reparations argument. I am sure it did not help but come on…..

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  58. Sean says:
    @ogunsiron

    What are they trying to experiment for?
     
    Haiti is a place where NGOs go to spend their money (paying their own employees).
    They go there, go though the motions, pay their employees and keep doing that as long as the money is flowing. Why not ?

    I haven't had the time to research this but I've been hearing about haitian migrants showing up in places like Santiago, Chile and elsewhere in South-America.
    Makes me think that haitians might become the NGO/UN's favorite "migrant source" very soon. They would have no problem shipping them everywhere a particular people needs "diversity".

    .http://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article1942887.html

    Economist and Oxford University professor Paul Collier, who made headlines arguing that rebuilding Haiti’s garment assembly industry was a key to rebuilding the country, said: “You’ve got to see the environmental gains as well as environmental losses.”

    “We know who is endangered in Haiti without looking under the stones to find the shy lizards. It’s the people,” said Collier. “It’s imperative to relocate as many Haitians by developing new centers of economic activities.”

    Collier said “it’s hypocritical” of people living in cities in the United States and elsewhere to expect Haiti to not build cities where people are productive.

    “There is massive environmental degradation across Haiti because too many people are desperately trying to get a living out of the country,” he said.

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  59. Sean says:

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/headtohead/2016/01/transcript-paul-collier-immigration-160104190604853.html

    Paul Collier: Immigrants or migrants are erm, erm, they tend to be the, the young, the enterprising, the skilled, the educated, erm, people like that are, if you like, were fairy godmothers in any society, they’re useful to others and so a country like, say Haiti, where about 85 percent of the young educated leave, that’s debilitating, right.

    Mehdi Hasan: Many would say Haiti is an aberration given its history of natural disasters and next, being next door to the United States, but I take your point, if we were to, if we were to all agree with your thesis on this particular point, about the poorest countries, why should I not try and leave Haiti and try and get a better job rather than stay in a country ruled by dictators, dominated by corruption, blighted by natural disaster, purely by the bad luck of my birth?

    Paul Collier: People don’t have the right to live anywhere in the world.

    Mehdi Hasan: But they have the right to leave their country.

    Paul Collier: And…

    Mehdi Hasan: That’s a human right.

    Paul Collier: Of course.

    Mehdi Hasan: You would admit, as you do in the book, just for context, I think it’s something like $400 billion dollars in remittances goes back from skilled migrants to those poor countries.

    Paul Collier: But if those people, because they are productive, skilled, energetic, if they’d stayed in their country they would also have produced more than 400 billion.

    Mehdi Hasan: [INTERRUPTING] No I’m not, there’s no evidence for that, Paul, that’s the one, that’s what the critics say about your book, there is no evidence that if you keep a skilled bunch of people in a hell-hole, that hell-hole will become a heaven.

    Paul Collier: Look.

    Mehdi Hasan: There’s no evidence for that.

    Paul Collier: That, no.

    [AUDIENCE APPLAUDING]

    Mehdi Hasan: That is totally unfair.

    Paul Collier: That, that is abusive language, Mehdi, that what you describe as hell-holes are the societies which absolutely have to catch up with the rest of the world.

    Mehdi Hasan: But you’re implying people leaving stops them from catching up. [APPLAUSE]

    Paul Collier: No…

    Mehdi Hasan: There’s no evidence for that.

    Paul Collier: The most important challenge for the 21st century is that the poorest societies catch up with the rest of us.

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  60. donnyess says:

    Haiti produces mostly low value commodities like sugar cane, mangos, bananas, crops that can tolerate high heat and humidity. Apparently the land is all used up. Then you have the freaky weather like hurricanes or tropical storms. Where do these young black kids work, the plantations? How long are they going to survive doing that kind of work?

    I’ve personally worked with a couple of these Haitian black kids. I found them to be articulate, literate, civilized, and generally well informed, unlike the teenage feral savages running around killing people in Detroit…end up doing 30-40 year prison sentences in rural Michigan somewhere. This is the verdict on the American k-12 educational system and American culture overall…it fails the bottom 80 percent of the population.

    It’s not a problem getting top scientists and engineers with high specialization. Ever since Wernher von Braun and rocket men came to the US, (however they actually got here) the US has made massive investments in aerospace development infrastructure. and the key strategic feeder industries. The US might be the only place where esoteric and expensive aerospace projects can be organized and accomplished.

    It might help if Trump would advocate for the restoration of recognition for the legacy and accomplishments of influential pioneers like Gary Kildall, Nikola Tesla, Federico Faggin, Masatoshi Shima, Charles Lindburgh.

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  61. Somebody here needs to write a coherent retort to the vision of history about why Haiti is poor (spoiler: it’s other countries’ fault because of slave trade and debt) put for in this cancerous tweetstorm from Jonathan M. Katz

    https://mobile.twitter.com/KatzOnEarth/status/951656979658870785

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  62. @Hippopotamusdrome

    Is Haiti a Shithole?

     

    But why do people use the term shithole?

    You Probably Don't Want To Know About Haiti's Sewage Problems
    ...Port-au-Prince, Haiti, is one of the largest cities in the world without a central sewage system. There are no sewers connecting sinks, showers and toilets to hulking wastewater treatment plants. Most of the more than 3 million people in the metro area use outhouses

     

    Haiti's 'Bayakou': Hauling Away Human Excrement By Hand

    Video: Dirty job shows why cholera still kills in Haiti
    ...They squeeze into a cramped outhouse with a reeking pit to scoop buckets of human excrement with their bare hands.
    It's just another night's work for this four-man team of "bayakou"

     

    Pit latrines in India are still dug out (with spades IIRC) by hand. It’s a problem because only Dalits can do it (caste system).

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  63. @Peter Akuleyev
    Would you say the Western rape of Russia in the nineties was akin to the real or imagined impact of White on Wog colonialism?

    There was no "Western rape of Russia". There was Russian rape of other Russians (or more accurately Soviets stealing from other Soviet citizens) using Westerners as proxies, mostly gullible proxies. If you've spent time in Russia you would know that the idea of a German or American swindling a Russian out of anything is pretty laughable.

    ‘Jews Are Fighting and the Whole Country Has To Watch’
    Jews in Power or Jewish Power? The Captains of Russia’s Post-Communist Economy Invited Uneasy Questions

    https://web.archive.org/web/20050306174251/http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.09.13/arts1.html

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  64. @ogunsiron

    What are they trying to experiment for?
     
    Haiti is a place where NGOs go to spend their money (paying their own employees).
    They go there, go though the motions, pay their employees and keep doing that as long as the money is flowing. Why not ?

    I haven't had the time to research this but I've been hearing about haitian migrants showing up in places like Santiago, Chile and elsewhere in South-America.
    Makes me think that haitians might become the NGO/UN's favorite "migrant source" very soon. They would have no problem shipping them everywhere a particular people needs "diversity".

    Yup, many of them in Brazil, already being used by the local NGOs to guilt-trip the natives into recognizing their own “priviledge”. Of course, one can always expiate this original sin by giving money to the NGOs, for them to bring even more Haitians…

    It is all very sad, really, as neither the politically correct government hacks nor the corrupt NGOs actually care about their “immigrants”. Temporary immigrant reception centers are a mess, documentation is a mess, and the labour market is difficult for them due to the language barrier.

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