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HAPPENING: Iran Responds to British Piracy
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There are reports just coming in that Iran has seized 1 2 3 (?!) British-linked oil tankers in the Persian Gulf.

This is in response to analogous British piracy off Gibraltar a few weeks ago.

Anyhow I suppose we will soon see how special the “special relationship” between the US and the UK really is.

PS. In an ironic twist, while the crew of the Stena Impero (the first captured tanker) didn’t have any Brits, it did have Russians.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Geopolitics, Iran, United Kingdom 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. peterAUS says:

    The first minute, feeling, footwork, feints and just flicking jabs.

    Lead hooks soon.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  3. What did the Brits do off of Gibraltar?

    • Replies: @El Dato
  4. Sometimes you have to sacrifice a few pawns to get the bigger pieces in play.

  5. A fantastic time to go after Britain given the current state of their leadership (none). This world is beginning to collapse under the weight of its own absurdity.

    I’m looking forward to seeing the shipping insurance costs tick up exponentially.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  6. Mikel says:

    Of course seizing a foreign ship sailing in international waters under the pretext that you ‘suspect” that it might be violating some sanctions enacted by somebody is an act of piracy, almost by definition.

    But in this case the UK’s action may not have been a real act of piracy. Given the moment and the circumstances, it looks more like a calculated move to provoke an Iranian reaction and generate the casus belli that our new Mideast adventure so badly necessitated.

    Apparently, the Iranians have taken the bait. Or just decided that now is as good a moment as any other to face the inevitable war and destruction coming their way. All of it initiated by the man who became President campaigning against the endless Mideast wars…

    • Agree: Spisarevski
    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Twodees Partain
  7. Adam says:

    Nothings gonna happen. Nothing ever happens.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @reiner Tor
  8. Important queastion is what is Drumpf going to do?

    • Replies: @yakushimaru
  9. It seems that the Iranians just become the world’s biggest enviromentalists. Got to check them regulations.

    I’m pretty sure the US Navy is very concerned about non-functional turning-indicators among many Iran-bound veessels…

    We are truly living in a new age of rule of regulations. Me like it.

  10. Epigon says:

    Iran is playing a piracy game against the historical world leaders in piracy.

    Best of luck to them.

    • LOL: reiner Tor
  11. anon[378] • Disclaimer says:

    Oil futures market is shrugging it off so far. Serious threats would lift WTI over $60.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  12. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:

    Trump should call the UK and suggest that they either send in 007 Christopher Steele or super-diplomat Kim Darroch to resolve the crisis. Hahahaha.

    • LOL: Mikhail, Dan Hayes
  13. @Anonymoose

    Important queastion is what is Drumpf going to do?

    As usual, playing 36D chess. 😉

    Or, doing one thing on Monday, and another in Wednesday.

    • LOL: Realist
  14. @Epigon

    Iran is playing a piracy game against the historical world leaders in piracy.

    But the Iranians are historical King of Kings!

    • Replies: @Sean
  15. S says:

    The past few days they’ve deployed five hundred US troops to Saudi Arabia as well as Patriot missile batteries there.

    Considering that the British tanker that was almost snatched last week by Iran was called ‘British Heritage’ (one wonders if it wasn’t only just recently renamed that just for the purpose of goading the British public?) I’m half surprised that of the two tankers grabbed today by Iran at least one wasn’t called ‘English Pride’. 😉

    And the US public is still being psychologically primed for WWIII. While it’s well known about the accusations of ‘Russian collusion’, it’s less well known that the US army has adopted it’s old WWII uniforms which are to come online in the Summer of 2020.

    Hope nothing comes of it.

  16. Sean c says:

    The UK seizing an Iranian tanker to enforce EU sanction when they should be leaving the EU to begin with.

  17. El Dato says:
    @Abelard Lindsey

    Nelson won a battle against the imperial coalition of France & Spain there once.

    Also, they bombarded Das Boot in “Das Boot”.

    In the days of Honk Honkler and CuckUK it is apparently a staging post for having royal marines board ships that are not registered in the EU for violating sanctions imposed by the EU. “Extraterritorial jursidiction” while no blockade (i.e. active warfare) is going on – and “freedom of the seas” when we want it – it’s not a murrican thing only.

  18. El Dato says:
    @Adam

    But then suddenly everything happens at once.

    That’s how systems work.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  19. El Dato says:

    Come to think of it, there is another “infrastructure failure” with two sewage plants releasing their sewage into the waters in Martin Luther King County in Washington. After the NY blackout on the day of the NY blackout anniversary this sounds fishy.

    And there was EU’s Galileo becoming unusable for a week with no explanation so far.

    Is someone flexing their muscles.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
  20. @El Dato

    The EU Galileo problems are due to malfunctioning Swiss made atomic clocks.

    India’s GPS satellite network(IRNSS) is also facing problems due to this same atomic clock. It is also affecting China’s GPS satellite network (Compass).

  21. Mikhail says: • Website
    @S

    A nice old school look blend with the more modern fitted look.

  22. anon[180] • Disclaimer says:

    The second ship, the Liberian-flagged Mesdar, managed by Glasgow-based Norbulk Shipping, was freed after being boarded by armed Iranian personnel and allowed to continue its voyage, Norbulk said.

    We are at roughly tit for tat. Stena Impero vs Grace 1.

  23. Are these UK flaged or owned by a UK company ships? There is a difference with legal/practical consequences.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
  24. Yay, go Iran! This is what I wanted to see happen. There are many more tankers for them to catch, and US/UK cannot do anything.

  25. Escher says:
    @S

    Methinks the profiles of those doing most of the actual fighting do not look much like the 3 people in the picture.

    • Replies: @S
    , @Yevardian
  26. @anon

    US fracking turns profitable somewhere in the $70s. They’ll start sinking ships if we don’t get there soon.

  27. @S

    I’m sure Patton is smiling down from Heaven at the look of The New Army.

    • Replies: @S
  28. notanon says:

    Anyhow I suppose we will soon see how special the “special relationship” between the US and the UK really is.

    neocons used UK and France as front-runners in Libya so i wouldn’t be surprised if this was somehow arranged in Washington as bait to provide a casus belli – not sure how though, plotting a course that makes seizure easier?

  29. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @S

    Will they still be wearing the camo-jamas here on our streets?

    • Replies: @S
  30. Realist says:
    @Mikel

    But in this case the UK’s action may not have been a real act of piracy. Given the moment and the circumstances, it looks more like a calculated move to provoke an Iranian reaction and generate the casus belli that our new Mideast adventure so badly necessitated.

    Cut the attempted justification….it was piracy.

  31. S says:
    @Escher

    Methinks the profiles of those doing most of the actual fighting do not look much like the 3 people in the picture.

    Quite true. It’s (also) not the same army as in 1944-45, no doubt.

    • Replies: @anon
  32. S says:
    @The Alarmist

    I’m sure Patton is smiling down from Heaven at the look of The New Army.

    LOL! Yes, it’s very…umm…’multi-cultural’ as they say.

  33. Sean says:
    @yakushimaru

    This is the problem, they still see themselves as an independent great power. Where are their allies?

    It’s not like Iran doesn’t have its own military industrial complex led by corrupt elites that have vested interest in unending confrontation.

  34. S says:
    @anonymous

    Will they still be wearing the camo-jamas here on our streets?

    Beats me, though I imagine they’ve still got those in stock. Of course, whereever ‘our streets’ might be (presuming it’s outside the US) they ought not to be there in the first place.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  35. @Adam

    By definition, usually nothing unusual happens.

    But don’t bank it always being the case.

  36. AaronB says:

    I cannot believe the Iranians fell for the bait so easily.

    I thought they were way smarter than this.

    When your enemy is trying to demonize you and paint you as a threat to world peace in order to psychologically prepare his people for war, you don’t play directly into his hands.

    This is why impulse control and self discipline are so important for long term success – not being reactive, knowing how to take humiliation and provocation without reacting, and emotional self control.

    It reminds me of Pericles trying hard to make his Athenians not react to the Spartans cutting down their olive trees and burning their fields, but suffer the humiliation until circumstances favored Athens.

    Knowing how to take humiliation and not responding to provocation and biding your time is one of the hardest things in the world – we Jews have, be necessity, become very good at this.

    China is another country that didn’t have the emotional discipline to bide its time.

    It’s a remarkable thing, this one small factor – timing. Timing is everything they say.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Dmitry
  37. @Epigon

    Well, they are de facto already under a blockade. If they cannot even send a tanker to Syria, then this will become a de iure blockade.

    So they had nothing to lose.

  38. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @S

    Agreed. But sadly, “our streets” are those here in flyover Exceptionalia. Been a long time since I’ve seen soldiers in dress uniform — the country looks like an occupied combat zone.

    What might a domestically deployed squad at the mall say if asked, “So why are you wearing combat fatigues?”

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @S
    , @anon
  39. @AaronB

    I’m sure that you, an American (and soon to be Israeli) Jew, have nothing but Iran’s best interests at heart, but this comes across as concern trolling.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    , @AaronB
  40. Hibernian says:
    @anonymous

    Dress uniforms are for basic training/boot camp graduation and Christmas parties, since the late ’80s.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  41. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hibernian

    Thank you. In fairness, I suppose that’s part of the trend to informality in American dress.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  42. @reiner Tor

    That sounds like an anti-semitic canard and ergo false

    • Replies: @BengaliCanadianDude
  43. Anonymous[590] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterAUS

    It’s cute that some Australians thinks they are involved in foreign military ventures beyond symbolic personal like medics.

    Best stay out of this one Aussie.

    • LOL: The scalpel
    • Replies: @neutral
  44. AaronB says:
    @reiner Tor

    Oh, I’m not concerned.

    I’m just marvelling at how some people act.

    When China started bullying people way before the time was ripe, I also marveled.

    I think what distinguishes those who make it to the top and those who become has beens is emotional self control and understanding timing.

    I see it in the business world as well – the people at the top have disciplined their emotions toward one goal, success, and they are able to cooly put up with any amount of provocation and humiliation until the time is right, and then strike.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @peterAUS
    , @gT
  45. S says:

    Regarding the ‘special relationship’ between the United States and United Kingdom remaining ‘special’, as this involves the potential of WWIII kicking off, something powerful elements and hangers on of the US/UK establishment want ever so desperately to do, one can be fairly assured that it remains quite special indeed.

    The US and UK, when not playing ‘good cop’/’bad cop’, have done just about everything together since the formation of the special relationship circa 1900, particularly so in regards to military endeavors.

    That shouldn’t be too surprising, as I submit the 1776 Revolution was ultimately a planned strategic ‘false split’ from the beginning. England, amongst other things, wished to avoid Spain’s experience the previous centuries when that country had openly conquered and consolidated the whole of the continent of South America, the very act of openly doing so creating it’s own resistance..ie Spain’s ‘Death Star’ like empire versus Europe’s ‘X-Wing’ fighters.

    So, England after 1776, let it’s ‘former colonist’ conquer and consolidate the heartland of the continent of North America for them, ‘on the sly’, while Europe and the rest of the world slept on. In 1900, after having done so, the US and UK effectively reunited with the ‘special relationship’, as planned.

    Some might forget, that prior to 1900 and the ‘relationship’, powerful elements of the US and UK elites thru the corporate media of the 1880’s and 1890’s had made a strong push to openly reabsorb the US back into the British Empire. This didn’t fly as people in the US since 1776 had been being taught that the British Empire was the most wicked thing on the face of the earth.

    These elites and hangers on, as they are wont to do, seemed to back off for a time, and then more or less did it anyway with the ‘special relationship’, a relationship only just short of an outright political union between the two countries.

    And, was King George III already cryptically forewarning of this planned future outcome for the US and UK, in the excerpt below from his Dec 5, 1782 speech before the British Parliament, formally acknowledging the separation of the United States from the British Empire?

    ‘Religion, language, interest, affections, may, and I hope will yet, prove a bond of permanent union between the two countries…’

    https://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/a_special_relationship

  46. Republic says:

    Speedboats & helicopter assault: Iran shows footage of British tanker seizure (VIDEO)

    https://www.rt.com/news/464652-iran-british-tanker-video/

  47. S says:
    @anonymous

    What might a domestically deployed squad at the mall say if asked, “So why are you wearing combat fatigues?”

    Good question. The scenario you describe might well (sadly) be seen in the US future.

  48. America’s poodle is just doing what they’re told.

    Sit, Britania.

    Good dog.

  49. Beckow says:
    @AaronB

    …I’m not concerned.

    Yeah, concern is for birds.

    I am not sure your timing analysis applies here. If Iran came to a conclusion that US-UK will not go for an all-out war – because it would be a losing madness and they are not mad yet – then escalating is not stupid. Strategically today Iran is in a good position: they just won in Syria, have Russia-China backing them, Iraq is an ally, Turkey is pissed off, Saudis are busy in Yemen.

    There is also Georgia: for some reason the geo-strategist planners wanted to stir it up in Georgia a month ago, probably to have an excuse to put some military assets there for an attack on Iran (or distract Russia). That suggests that they are having a really hard time pre-positioning assets elsewhere (Iraq, Gulf, Turkey,…). But Georgia is actually not an ideal place, so the better places probably turned them down.

    Now just imagine if Crimea was available as a US-UK base, absolute gold, what a f..k-up that Nuland b…ch was for messing it up. (Am I breaking off-topic rules?).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  50. @Beckow

    Time was not on Iran’s side. Their economy is collapsing. They might have a better chance if the US actually attacked them.

    1) Their regime might collapse without a gunshot even if they don’t start a war at all. They have very little to lose from a war.

    2) The Americans are unlikely to try to occupy the whole (or even most) of Iran. So, even if they lose a war, they might easily survive for a long time the way Saddam did after losing a war in 1991. So they have even less to lose.

    3) Their own population might support them more in an actual war situation – rally around the flag and all that. So, a war might actually help them avert collapse.

    4) Then the war might start a chain of events which could lead to something way bigger than Iran. The way Serbia managed to defy Austria-Hungary. (Since we were discussing it in the other thread.)

    5) But most likely they will at least manage to inflict casualties on the US. Maybe they’ll prevent Trump from being re-elected. Maybe not. (Rally around the flag exists in the US, too.)

    Anyway, AaronB is clearly very concerned with the fate of Iran. He is a pro-Iran cuck.

    • Replies: @Kent Nationalist
    , @Beckow
  51. @anonymous

    That’s a worldwide trend. Soldiers often appear in camouflage uniforms even in the building of the ministry of defense of any number of countries. Dress uniforms are used less and less.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @ivvenalis
  52. @reiner Tor

    1) Their regime might collapse without a gunshot even if they don’t start a war at all. They have very little to lose from a war.

    Why do you think their regime might collapse?

  53. Dmitry says:
    @Epigon

    If one terrible day the British would again open their bottles of rum, put parrot on shoulder, and launch the Jolly Roger

  54. Dmitry says:
    @AaronB

    If Iran does nothing, then they are losing power every week.

    I wrote a comment a month ago which explained this topic, and why Iran needs to balance slowly increasing tension while avoiding full war.

    They are so far following the correct actions, from their perspective (government perspective – obviously correct action from Iranian country perspective would be to not have that government in the beginning, and to have a pro-Western government, or at least something neutral like Azerbaijan has).

    From Iran’s perspective, worst scenario in this order:

    1. Iran do something, and America attack militarily. (Worst scenario).
    2. Iran do nothing, economy continues under sanctions, and Trump is re-elected (second worst scenario).
    3. Iran do something, and America does not attack militarily, oil prices raise, – and Trump is not re-elected (best scenario).

    So Iran will try to manage 3, and increase the price of oil. The problem is between 1 and 3 is a difficult balance for them, and we probably see this now.

    … Best scenario for Trump’s Administration, is 2 – for as many months as possible. With the sanctions, Iran is going to start collapsing, or at least continuous recession, economically.

    Sanctions on Iran, are not at all comparable to sanctions on Russia. American sanctions on Iran prevent exportation of oil, and now petrochemicals.

    As a result, Iran have to store their oil offshore. However, after several months, Iranian oil storage will be full, and then they will have to shut down oil wells. Shutting down oil wells, will even permanently damage oil wells, and some will not be possible to reopen, or retrieve the same quantity of oil in the future.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/iran-escalation/#comment-3270059

  55. Dan Hayes says:
    @reiner Tor

    reiner Tor:

    I’ve often wondered whether upper staff officers’ camos are Hong Kong tailored.

    I well remember the camo-clad USAF Academy superintendent who made a fool of himself lamenting/threatening about what proved to be yet another farcical and preposterous racial incident!

  56. Beckow says:
    @reiner Tor

    …Their economy is collapsing.

    Only Iran’s international economy is collapsing. That only impacts a minority of people – big cities, globally connected – the rest of Iran could go on like today for years.

    Any confrontation could easily get out of hand – I agree. But at its heart this is a conflict about who will control what in Middle East-Caucasus-Central Asia. If nothing happens, Iran will simply get stronger over time, because it is fundamentally the strongest country in that region (and Turkey).

    The religious zeal will over time be replaced with mores standard nationalism, from Iran to Turkey to Saudis. If there is a war – even a small one – the process will dramatically accelerate. It is self-defeating for the West to position itself in opposition to strongest nationalism forces in that region. The crazy idea that the globalists have that their version of global-LGBTXQ liberalism will win at the end is short-sighted and can never work. They are drunk on their own ideology and personal biases – and people like that seldom get to rule the world no matter how well positioned they are in resources and ‘soft power’.

  57. peterAUS says:
    @AaronB

    You are definitely onto something with those two comments re control and self-discipline.

    But, there is another concept here. “Nothing to lose”.”If there is going to be a fight now is the time”.

  58. gT says:
    @AaronB

    Timing and self-control is Putin’s strategy, Iran is Muslim and Muslims’ only want contact. Russia is blessed to have game allies such as Iran, the US has got no-one comparable, all the US allies are mickey mouse. Russia should supply Iran with nukes and s400 to make sure that Iran can deliver some really good bites.

    • Replies: @animalogic
  59. peterAUS says:

    The tankers have been seized by the Revolutionary Guard units.
    The previous attacks on tankers were blamed on the same outfit.

    Does anybody see that as significant?
    Keywords: “Revolutionary Guard leadership”, “economy”.
    Other keywords here too:”layers”, “corruption”.
    Just curious.

    Don’t worry if you don’t.
    Let’s wait for somebody with a better understanding of Iranian society to chime in; preferably Iranian, with deep contacts within the country.
    Sometimes they do pop up on this site.

    “Cracks in monolithic appearance” thing. Appearance in particular.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  60. neutral says:

    More old fashioned British piracy, they have been doing this for centuries already.

    • Replies: @notanon
  61. notanon says:
    @neutral

    yeah but the UK is a client state now – hence why i think this is really US provocation using UK as a cat’s paw.

  62. @peterAUS

    The owner of a Persian restaurant (who came from the north of the country, and used to be an aspiring art film director, but only managed to make a few short films before emigrating to Western Europe maybe a decade ago) told me a few weeks ago (when they shot down the drone) that he didn’t think there was going to be a war. He told me that all members of the top leadership have second passports from western countries, and hush funds, too. He thought they certainly didn’t want war. I don’t think he is deeply connected in Iran, but his views might reflect that of the Iranian middle class.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  63. peterAUS says:
    @reiner Tor

    He told me that all members of the top leadership have second passports from western countries, and hush funds, too. He thought they certainly didn’t want war.

    Very simplistic. Very.

    I don’t think he is deeply connected in Iran…

    He is not.

    How about this: try to dig out how the economy works in Iran and then what is the role and POSITION of Revolutionary Guard leadership in that scheme/pyramid.

    A lot of Iranians aren’t quite happy with all that.
    That’s all that matters in this game.
    “Cracks”.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  64. neutral says:
    @Anonymous

    Best stay out of this one Aussie.

    Don’t think they can, I have heard Australians openly boasting how they join every war with America. Why they take pride in being Americas little bitch is a mystery, but they don’t want it any other way.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @animalogic
  65. @peterAUS

    A colleague spent a couple weeks in Iran, but not in hotels, instead staying with middle class families. He went out with their sons. He still keeps contact with them. They often send him stories about the corruption of IRGC commanders, who they hate. But that’s really third hand information, probably also from lower level people.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  66. anon[251] • Disclaimer says:
    @S

    not the same army as in 1944-45, no doubt.

    My WWII Dad’s Navy Blues have a 22″ waist. In large group photos, he was a bit smaller than many, but not by a large margin.

    • Replies: @S
  67. anon[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    As a former Army Reservist, the answer from me would be: “drill weekend.”

    • Agree: Hibernian
  68. S says:
    @anon

    My WWII Dad’s Navy Blues have a 22″ waist.

    Wow, very slim, but probably also in very good shape. People back then (at least obesity wise) were in physically better shape than many nowadays.

  69. peterAUS says:
    @reiner Tor

    They often send him stories about the corruption of IRGC commanders, who they hate.

    Don’t say…….
    Did I say “cracks”?

    But that’s really third hand information, probably also from lower level people.

    Lower level. Interesting choice of words.

    You mean from the lower middle class to the bottom, I guess.
    The majority of people. In any society.
    In a case of hard war the type of people who actually do the fighting.

    O.K.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  70. Personally, I don’t condone piracy. By seizing Iranian tanker the UK broke all applicable laws, openly engaged in an act of piracy. One might say that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. However, I don’t think that criminal behavior of the UK or its imperial masters justifies criminal behavior against it. So far Iran was on moral high ground. We’ll see whether it stooped to the imperial level of criminality, or whether there is some justification for its actions that makes them legal.

  71. @AltSerrice

    Good point, and I think that’s already happening. Maritime insurers can shut down the gulf without any open warfare breaking out.

  72. @Mikel

    “the UK’s action may not have been a real act of piracy. Given the moment and the circumstances, it looks more like a calculated move to provoke an Iranian reaction ”

    Calling the seizure a strategic move doesn’t change the fact that it fits the definition of piracy. UK “leaders” seem to have confused the 21st century with the 18th.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  73. Yevardian says:
    @Escher

    I had the impression Hispanics made up a large proportion of the USMC these days.

    • Replies: @Escher
  74. @El Dato

    “But then suddenly everything happens at once.

    That’s how systems work.”

    Not always. If you hiccup and burp and cough and sneeze and fart all at the same time, you will die.

  75. dfordoom says: • Website
    @neutral

    Don’t think they can, I have heard Australians openly boasting how they join every war with America. Why they take pride in being Americas little bitch is a mystery, but they don’t want it any other way.

    We don’t really care whose bitch we are as long as we’re somebody’s. We used to be Britain’s bitch. At some point in the not-too-distant future we may decide that we’d be a whole lot better off being China’s bitch.

    If you’re going to be a whore it’s a good idea to find yourself a pimp.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @animalogic
  76. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Twodees Partain

    UK “leaders” seem to have confused the 21st century with the 18th.

    UK leaders have never accepted that the empire is gone, Britannia will never again rule the waves, Britain is no longer an independent power much less a great power and it’s a miserable sh*thole country and always was. And a large segment of the British population doesn’t want to accept this either. So they love pretending to be a great power. It’s pretty sad really. But then if you lived in such an awful country you’d want to escape into a fantasy world as well.

    • Replies: @Matra
  77. @dfordoom

    The UK and the US are both Anglo countries, though. China is not. It probably comes naturally to be America’s bitch, while being China’s bitch… not so much.

  78. @peterAUS

    I think these people (the contacts of my colleague) are solidly middle class or upper middle class. They are probably not much involved with the military or actual fighting.

    • Replies: @Dreadilk
  79. @AnonFromTN

    The British started it, and it was an act of war, which, according to international law, entitles Iran to a proportionate response. Capturing a British ship was therefore wholly justified, since you literally cannot think of a more proportionate response.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Matra
  80. @neutral

    “Don’t think they can, I have heard Australians openly boasting how they join every war with America. Why they take pride in being Americas little bitch is a mystery, but they don’t want it any other way.”
    Sometruth in above. (excuse me…………I had to have quick spew — thank god the cat, not carpet, copped most of it) . But NOT all of us. Some of are absolutely fucking sick of getting sucked into illegal, unethical & sheer bloody stupid wars for the benefit of whatever degenerate imperialist is currently playing pied piper of Hamlin.

  81. anon[241] • Disclaimer says:

    Britain’s decision to seize an Iranian tanker off the coast of its overseas territory of Gibraltar earlier this month is fast snowballing, dragging the country deeper into an escalating crisis between Iran and the West.

    From WSJ. A reversal for them, and an indication that this isn’t going to result in much. Arguing that Britain over reached when it seized the Iranian tanker. Yesterday they totally ignored Britain’s provocation, as if it never happened.

    Britain is being thrown under the bus.

  82. @gT

    “Russia should supply Iran with nukes and s400 to make sure that Iran can deliver some really good bites”.
    Don’t disagree with the S 400’s, but the “nukes” bit ? Sheer insanity. The Israeli’s wouldn’t hesitate to commence a “nuke” war. Thankfully, neither Russia nor Iran are that crazy.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @AnonFromTN
  83. @dfordoom

    Not too keen on Aust’ being a whore. But better than being a silly tart & getting nothing.
    Some whores are smart – they operate quietly, independently. They don’t need a pimp… but maybe this is where the analogy breaks down….

  84. Dreadilk says:
    @reiner Tor

    You have to be careful of this type of information people who talk to foreigners tend to be in opposition in their home countries. It’s kinda like all the ex Soviet people who would move to US rather than Russia.

    When ever I ran into Iranians they always reminded me of ex Soviets here.

    Not that I am trying to defend Iran here.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  85. Mitleser says:
    @AnonFromTN

    What is the point of the moral high ground if maintaining it is just kneecaping yourself?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @AnonFromTN
  86. dfordoom says: • Website
    @animalogic

    Don’t disagree with the S 400’s, but the “nukes” bit ? Sheer insanity. The Israeli’s wouldn’t hesitate to commence a “nuke” war. Thankfully, neither Russia nor Iran are that crazy.

    Nukes are the only effective means that has ever been found to prevent war. If you truly want peace then the way to achieve it is to ensure that both sides have nukes. What’s really dangerous is a situation in which one side has nukes and the other doesn’t.

    The real danger is that if Iran had nukes peace might break out in the Middle East.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  87. Hibernian says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I rad on a miltary website that in a somewhat similar case of a North Korean shipment of arms to somewhere in the Middle East, a series of American ships tailed the NK ship to somewhere near the Middle East drop of point, and then let a Spanish ship make, and tale credit for, the seizure.

  88. @Dreadilk

    Yes, but the contacts of my colleague still live in Iran.

    Obviously untrue of the restaurant owner I talked to. (His wife works in the restaurant, too. She dresses like any European woman would, so no headscarf or hijab.)

  89. @Mitleser

    They still have the moral high ground, because the British action was purely an act of piracy, while the Iranian action was proportionate retaliation within the confines of international law.

  90. @dfordoom

    Nukes always prevent war, until some day, in the future, they won’t. We don’t know when that moment will come (did Hillary really want to unilaterally declare a no-fly zone over Syria?), but it will come, and then we’ll just have a war between nuclear powers.

    We don’t know how it will look like. There’s a line of argument that neither of them will be willing to use nukes, and that, therefore, the war will be somewhat limited. There’s an even more extreme argument that nukes will never be used, no matter what, similarly to how chemical weapons were never used in WW2, not even in the most desperate moments in March 1945, when the Germans still had the means to kill maybe a few tens of thousands of Britons in London with it. But they went on to totally lose the war (I doubt any major power was as thoroughly defeated as Germany in 1945 since Timur, and maybe since the Mongol conquest), and never used chemical weapons, despite having large quantities of it in storage. (And nerve gases, better than what their enemies had.)

  91. Escher says:
    @Yevardian

    How many Hispanic women?

  92. @reiner Tor

    You have a point there: when your opponent starts a war, no holds are barred any more. The actions of UK were criminal, mean, and petty. Iran so far tries to stick to some rules. “So far” being the key phrase here.

  93. @animalogic

    Yes, S-400 is a purely defensive weapon, unlike nukes. Giving nukes to anyone would be irresponsible. Besides, it’s unnecessary: Iran is perfectly capable of sinking all aggressors’ battleships in Persian Gulf without them.

  94. @Mitleser

    Yes, by being a decent person among crooks you put yourself at a disadvantage. But if you start behaving like the Empire and its vassals, there would be no bottom to the pit of criminality.

  95. Matra says:
    @dfordoom

    Britain is no longer an independent power much less a great power and it’s a miserable sh*thole country and always was. And a large segment of the British population doesn’t want to accept this either. So they love pretending to be a great power. It’s pretty sad really

    Your colonial cultural cringe is showing. Also showing is that you’ve never set foot in Britain. Or at least not for over 30 years. The people who think that way all died off in the 80s and 90s. There are some Remainiacs trying to make that argument to Leavers – “we have more power & influence being part of the EU”, “we need to stand together against Putin’s Russia” – but are making absolutely no headway because hardly anyone in the entire country has imperial nostalgia.

    This guy gets it:

    Since 1945, intelligent outsiders have overestimated Britain’s frustrated ambition and underrated its sense of resignation, its desire for a quiet life after a draining few centuries as a player. When the American diplomat Dean Acheson said the British had not yet found a role after empire, he rather assumed that we were looking for one. Insiders make the same mistake. The least effective argument for the EU in the referendum campaign centred on its usefulness as a power-multiplier for medium-sized nations. It is not that voters disbelieved this. They just did not care enough.

  96. Matra says:
    @reiner Tor

    Capturing a British ship was therefore wholly justified, since you literally cannot think of a more proportionate response.

    True, but whether justified or not traps have been set up all over the place for the Iranians and so they are the ones who have to be extra careful not to step in one at the wrong moment. So far they have managed to that whilst looking more responsible than the Americans, British, or Saudis.

  97. ivvenalis says:
    @reiner Tor

    Modern dress uniforms are alterations of older field uniforms. The “camouflage pajamas” worn by most military personnel are actually quite different in style from what is actually worn into combat, especially by elite forces.

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