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The blogger Audacious Epigone has done yeoman’s work over the past couple of years documenting the surprising “basedness” of Generation Z(yklon).

With the collapse of the Alt Right and Trump turning out to be a damp squib, it might well be that Gen Z is the last best hope for America to remain a somewhat American country.

Not great that we’re essentially down to wagering on demographics, given that the usual narratives portend things such as a Blue Texas by the 2020s, but there you go.

Here is a selection of Anepigone’s classic articles on Gen Z:

Collection of the more interesting graphs:

Assuming that Generation Zyklon shitlords will be able to withstand SJW brainwashing in the modern college madrassas, this would overturn the conventional wisdom and and ensure Republican hegemony for a few more decades, at least until the population goes majority non-White by mid-century.

In the meantime, this would give future President Thorfinnsson time to engineer permanent white supremacy into the Constitution.

What do you think?

Does Generation Z have potential to rejuvenate America and atomically blast spaceships into space, or is this just a desert mirage imagined by citizens of a doomed civilization?

PS. Why Generation Zyklon?

Zyklon* is intentionally provocative, but it’s also intentionally ambiguous. In a way, it’s perfectly suitable for Gen Z. Zyklon was originally used as a pesticide beginning in the 1880s. It wasn’t modified for use as a weapon against humans until WWI, and then most infamously by Germany in WWII.

Gen Z may lead the way to an occidental renaissance, or it may be the generation that sees the West finally burned to the ground in a civilizational bloodletting that puts the wars of the 20th century to shame. The Derb and Brimelow respectively gesture towards each potential extreme.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Alt Right, Demographics, United States 
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  1. Polls show repeatedly young people are the most anti-Trump (especially since his election), so highly unlikely Gen Z is any hope at all.

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  3. DFH says:

    What are they like in other countries?

    I know in France the FN get the largest share of the youngest generations vote, but in total that is still quite low since its split four ways.

    In Britain all the polling I’ve seen suggests that the youngest generation is even gayer than the last.

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  4. I trust Epigone’s data-finding skills but I distrust his interpretation of them deeply. He was cucking and shilling for Trump up until the very end. Each folding was delusionally interpreted á The_Donald (“cucks BTFO’d!”).

    Only in the very recent time when even the most diehard magatards had to throw in the towel (the omnibus, the total capitulation to the neocons, his signing of blatantly anti-European laws like the so-called ‘JUST Act’ etc etc), did Epigone finally admit the blindingly obvious. Such a man’s judgement is sullied and in disrepute.

    As for the Gen Z meme, 2011 was the year when white births became non-majority. And remember, “white” in the US includes Turks, Iranians, Jews, Arabs and even Central Asians(!). 40% of whites still vote democrat. Even if we assume that percentage will drop, it will be matched by rising numbers of non-whites.

    Gen Z will not reach the age when they can take the reins of institutions until 2040 or so at the earliest. By that time, non-white births will be in a clear super-majority.

    Oh, and Gen X and Millenials haven’t suddenly disappeared. Most of these “Gen Z will save us” peddlers assume perfect white uniformity and loyalty, which is a radically inaccurate assumption if you look at white behaviour.

    It is much more likely that Gen Z radicals will be the discordant 10% of the population, a hated and despised a rump group which is radical but powerless, and often used as foil by the authorities to whip up unity by portraying them as the common enemy.

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  5. Dmitry says:

    It’s a symptom of disenchantment and cynicism with the ruling American life-style ideologies, whatever they might be at the time, and despite widespread wealth and a GDP per capita of $59,500 a year.

    The real cause – and accelerating factor – in this disenchantment is probably technologically powered, particularly since the internet.

    This is in terms of the cynicism of the younger generation towards ideology. Because the actual problems of the country have not changed since the 20th century, and the economic stagnation is not equivalent to 1980s Soviet Union era.

    This attitude of cynicism and disenchantment, as we know, is not unique in America, and is the same in Europe, in all Russian-speaking countries, and probably even (does anyone know?) in utopias like Japan.

    The area where you are probably right in the post is that cynicism and disenchantment is not necessarily a bad thing. Not because there is some ‘glorious future’ or ‘rejuvenation’ (happiness in life will never be found in politics, unless you are getting money somehow from it). But because cynicism and disenchantment is an important part of growing up and not believing in society propaganda, not believing in politicians’ speeches, and taking more objective views that make public start to look at the underlying data in their country (demographics, economy, etc).

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  6. in terms of actual numbers (not jew.gov palliatives)

    ‘Murka will be majority non-White no later than 2030.

    not “2050″.

    as to “Generation Z”, other than a few autists in cyberspace (4Chan, Anglin’s crowd),

    it has no facticity.

    IF the Jews can keep their consent-buying debtPonziconomy going for another

    decade or so, (((they))) will likely succeed in liquidating White Western Civilization,

    and annihilate the entire White Race before the end of the 21st century.

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  7. Interesting study of the V4 out this past april:

    https://www.globsec.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/GLOBSEC-Trends-2018.pdf

    Some highlights:

    Not that surprising, except perhaps Slovakia relatively low share. But now let’s look at the youth.

    The big surprise, to me, is Hungary. 8 years of Orban rule has apparently not done much in this regard. Slovakia goes from being the most luke-warm on the West to ceding that position to Poland. Russophilia, which is implied in “to the East” is strongest in Poland, though still quite marginal, as it is outnumbered by 3 to 1. Still better odds than if you look at Hungary.

    The report itself covers this huge Polish generational split.

    In most countries, the biggest supporters of the EU and of Western-orientation tends to be those in the middle of their careers (30-45), but in Poland, those are the boomers. This gels with my previous observations that the biggest supporters of liberalism in Poland tend to be the boomers.

    It seems to me that we’re re-calibrating ourselves after 30 years of excessive Western-worship. We were and always will be a buffer state, or a hybrid state if you want softer language. This obsession with Westernisation is unhealthy. It’s not who we are, or who we have been.

    Bonus pic:

    This is a good a reminder as any not to look blindly on GDP per capita. Hungary, while having the same per capita income as Poland, has significantly higher poverty, emigration and has lower wages, though Orban is working overtime to change this.

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  8. Dmitry says:
    @E. Harding

    The data in the post is from 2016, when Obama and Democrats were the ruling ideology. The disenchanted and cynical segment of the younger voters, would oppose the ruling ideology of the previous 8 years in America.

    Now Trump and Republicans are the ruling body in America. We will expect to see slowly a switch around, where disenchanted and cynical segment of the younger voters will start to oppose Trump/Republican ideology. This will happen particularly if Trump wins a second term and lasts 8 years as Obama did.

    In 2008, Obama himself would have been seen as the ‘cool’ and ‘rebellious’ candidate (the popular with younger voters), as he was opposing 8 years of Republican rule.

    Overall this is all quite nonsense – and only important thing or scale on which politicians should be judged is reflected in the actual data of the country (economic, demographic, and so on).

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  9. @Polish Perspective

    To drive home the point about Hungary.

    How does the EU define material deprivation?

    Material deprivation rates gauge the proportion of people whose living conditions are severely affected by a lack of resources. The severe material deprivation rate represents the proportion of people living in households that cannot afford at least four of the following nine items:

    * mortgage or rent payments, utility bills, hire purchase instalments or other loan payments;

    * one week’s holiday away from home;

    * a meal with meat, chicken, fish or vegetarian equivalent every second day;

    * unexpected financial expenses;

    * a telephone (including mobile telephone);

    * a colour TV;

    * a washing machine;

    * a car;

    * heating to keep the home adequately warm.

    Whatever your per capita income is on paper, what people care about are tangible things. And the list above is not exactly luxurious or unreasonable. Relative decline also matters. Hungary had “Goulash Communism”, and arguably had far fewer restrictions than most countries in Eastern Bloc with perhaps parts of Yugoslavia rivalling it.

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  10. I see no data at all about foreign policy attitudes…and given the kind of idiocy many Trump voters support, I find it increasingly hard to care about US demographics or the interests of white Americans. For the rest of the world, including Europe, it might perhaps even be better if Hispanicization of the US proceeds unchecked. If the US becomes increasingly fragmented and unstable at home, this might constrain American interventionism abroad and finally make it possible to evict the Americans from Europe, which is a necessary precondition for ending the liberal order.

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  11. Dmitry says:
    @Polish Perspective

    This question ‘where we belong – East or West’, seems to be vague.

    What is the usage ‘East’ and ‘West’ in this question?

    Obviously Poland, Hungary, Czech, are European countries, which is evident on the map. But they are not Western European countries, which is also evident on the map. Assuming the question is speaking about geographical inter-European terms – the answer would be ‘East’ (if you exclude Russian geography to the Urals from Europe), but ‘somewhere in between’ (if you include Russian geography in Europe up to the Urals). As European Russia is a reality of the world, whether you like it or not – then the correct answer to this question is ‘Somewhere in between’.

    However, the same question could be talking about power-blocs. Assuming the question is talking about political power-blocs – the correct answer for all these countries is ‘West’ (NATO, EU membership).

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  12. Why should the USA remain an “American” (=white) country? What good that would be?

    Browner America = weaker America and weaker America = good for the rest of the World.

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  13. Corvinus says:

    “The blogger Audacious Epigone has done yeoman’s work over the past couple of years documenting the surprising “basedness” of Generation Z(yklon).”

    Which is in reality “Fake News”.

    It would appear that Generation Z whites would vote for a Republican candidate and are in favor of reducing immigration. However, Generation Z generally favors diversity, homosexuality, and gay marriage. Remember, conservative does mean Republican. It is also worthwhile to note that teenagers are beginning to understand the political process, and that their views are in constant flux at this age. Youth cannot be taken for granted as to how they lean politically. Consider that the survey indicated that 38% of the respondents lack significant engagement in politics, which could mean that they are parroting the positions by their parents, or could mean that they have merely formed a basic understanding of the Republican-Democrat, conservative-liberal paradigms.

    Regarding white millennials, they are having fewer babies, have less homeownership, and in large numbers also favor diversity, homosexuality, and gay marriage. And all it takes is a social media push to further expose what Alt Right leaders like Brett Stevens and Mark Citadel desire–a return to an absolute monarchy that brutally crushes dissent, fiercely opposes modernity, and pervasively undermines individual liberty.

    In the end, white people will make their own decisions regarding race and culture.

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  14. Corvinus says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    “IF the Jews can keep their consent-buying debtPonziconomy going for another decade or so, (((they))) will likely succeed in liquidating White Western Civilization, and annihilate the entire White Race before the end of the 21st century.”

    White people will be around in great numbers in 2100 A.D. Your moral compass is on the fritz yet again.

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  15. Corvinus says:

    “In the meantime, this would give future President Thorfinnsson time to engineer permanent white supremacy into the Constitution.”

    Which is a pipe dream. Why on earth would you tout something that has ZERO chance of ever coming to fruition?

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  16. Dmitry says:
    @DFH

    For Russia.

    (With usual disclaimer everyone knows that mapping political spectrum of Eastern/Western countries does not make sense. Equivalent of mainstream conservatism sentiments is generally ‘Communist Party’, While concept of liberalism, can sound like Thatcher/Reagan.)

    Putin would have got by far the largest number of young voters in total numbers, with Grudinin coming in second place in total number of youth votes. While proportionately to their total vote, Sobchak had by far the largest youth support (of the small number of people who voted for her).

    (This is preliminary exit poll data so ignore total numbers)

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  17. Derb/Brimelow: Who takes which position?

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  18. Jon0815 says:

    Assuming that Generation Zyklon shitlords will be able to withstand SJW brainwashing in the modern college madrassas, this would overturn the conventional wisdom and and ensure Republican hegemony for a few more decades, at least until the population goes majority non-White by mid-century.

    In the aftermath of the 2012 election, political analyst Sean Trende noted that controlling for the relative approval ratings of presidential candidates, since the 1980s the white vote has been shifting toward the GOP by about 1.5 points every four years (hence Romney did as well among white voters as Reagan did in 1980, despite Obama having a much higher approval rating than Carter). He also crunched the numbers and discovered that if this trend continued, even if the GOP did not improve their share of the nonwhite vote at all, they could still win majorities of the popular vote until at least the early 2050s, when they’d be regularly winning about 66% of the white vote (and of course, as Trump showed, the GOP can still win the Electoral College even while losing the popular vote by small margin).

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  19. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    I agree with you in the very limited sense that NATO is obviously a liability for Europeans now, and it is even quite possible that it was never a good thing for either side – facilitating exorbitant social welfare programs which helped attract Muslims and Africans like a magnet. Encouraging a bankrupting and distracting interventionist policy in America.

    Obviously, I don’t agree with the “Screw my fellow whites!” sentiment and never do. The problem with that is most people weren’t to blame for what happened. I don’t even believe it about Sweden.

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  20. DFH says:
    @German_reader

    finally make it possible to evict the Americans from Europe, which is a necessary precondition for ending the liberal order.

    This is such a lame excuse. American (geopolitical) hegemony in Europe is objectionable for other reasons, but the political pozzing comes from native elites. It’s the EU that tries to destroy nationalist governments, not NATO.

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  21. anonymous[353] • Disclaimer says:

    From what I’ve seen of white Gen Z’ers in the US deep south and the midwest, they seem to be the most brainwashed generation in history. For them, multiculturalism is the default. Good luck convincing them otherwise when half of their friends are black and hispanic. Mind you, I’m talking about middle class suburbanites. They almost all adore ghetto thug “culture”, and they support all of the homo-mania (they learn young) stuff. I’ve seen with my own eyes that adults are teaching them that the holocaust was the worst thing in human history, and they are doing it at a very young age. I’ve seen white kids ages 8-13 talk with such attention to PC sensibilities about topics of race and “sexism” that it would make sociologist professors and gender studies students blush. Maybe they will reject some of these things when they get older, but I find it very hard to believe they will ever reject multiculturalism. That is here to stay.

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  22. BB753 says:

    Wannabe president Thorfinsson is totally wrong in believing that the Federal Government would hesitate to crush molon labe nuts or any secessionist attempt by any given state. What’s more, many police departments and the National Guard or even the army would be more than happy to pry those guns from millions of cold dead hands.
    Having said that, I like the way Thorfinsson thinks. But sorry, it can’t be done! It would take a veritable inside coup in the government to accomplish that.. And you’d need over 51 % of the government, including the deep state, and 80 % of the military to pull that out.

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  23. neutral says:

    A definite positive is that the unquestioning loyalty to Israel is decreasing with each generation, whether generation Zyklon is white or non white, it will good when Israel and the international jew no longer has a compliant thrall to do its bidding anymore.

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  24. songbird says:

    I don’t really have any hope in “democracy” to upset the world order, esp. in America. The way I see it there are only four chances for the order to be upset in the US:

    1.) an economic collapse (but there is a lot of ruin in a country – particularly the USA)
    2.) China word dom (probably not going to happen – at least not globally)
    3.) Some sort of techno-revolution that makes forceful collection of taxes impossible
    4.) Eugenics Wars (might be related to #2 and #3)

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  25. @DFH

    but the political pozzing comes from native elites

    Native elites which have strong transatlantic links and eagerly take up every retarded “antiracist”, pro-diversity concept the Americans come up with.
    That being said, it’s of course true that millions of Europeans really believe in all this and would have to be dealt with…which is however impossible under present conditions.

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  26. Aly says:

    More Hispanic USA in theory should be more like Europe, and also pro-European because Hispanics are Europeans also, ethnicaly and culturaly, but because of left and MSM propaganda and stupidity of American whites we have to pretend otherwise.
    About Trump…he is not perfect but people are unrealistic. He is not all powerfull tzar or something, his hands are pretty much tied by idiotic Congress, histerical and masive propaganda in the media, and Russia coulision crap. He can’t just built a wall without Congress, and Republicans have a small majority and also not all of them back Trump. Same thing about deportation. Oh, I forgot scandalous courts and their criminal and unprecedented behavior. Trump is doing what he can in still difficult circumstances. Remember a lot or Republicans are opet borders morons. On forein policy, yeah Trump let neocons take over but still there is not any big problematic actions they took.
    Here is one good thing Trump have done despite all hysteria and courts actions. Trump halted refugee program. If Hilary was president you would have, my guess, about 100k more people coming in USA in only this 2 years (assumption that with Hilary it would have been al least 200k refugees in 2 yeas, with Trump its 50k in 2017 and this year will be maybe just about 25k…thats actialy 125k diference in 2 years…not counting chain migration in the future…also not counting different composition of refugees…now they are less Muslim).
    Also Trump and Republican Senate are confirming a lot of conservative circuit court justices…thats a big thing.
    But it takes time to change things, it takes a lot of time. Trump needs more Republicans in Congress, and more Trump-like Republicans. And I thing we will get them in November. And still it won’t be easy to change thing dramaticaly.
    You are giving up on Trump very quicly. Expecting one or two big things that will change everything is unrealistic. It’s a lot of small victories in the long run that deliver change.

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  27. The scenario I have outlined is the only realistic scenario (beyond God-Emperor rubbish) yet presented in which we save ourselves within peaceful, legal structures of the present territory of the United States.

    Thus far arguments against it amount to “you can’t do that”.

    Does anyone else have a better idea? If so, I’m listening.

    Secession is the other alternative that can be discussed here.

    Other options should not be as these comms are not secure. For all we know Ron Unz is in fact a honeypot sponsored by The Enemy, though probably not since they’re not all that clever.

    As for demographics I don’t think 60% is a hard ceiling on the white vote older than Generation Zyklon. Imagine what we could get if we mixed in some genuine economic populism as well. Said economic populism does not even have to be terribly expensive once we’re in power. Imagine if we campaigned on ending the requirement for ordinary wage earners to file a tax return for instance, a scary process which terrifies many Americans and causes them to squander money on tax preparers like H&R Block.

    Depending on the candidate offered by The Enemy, good economic populism can peel off a decent number of non-white votes as well.

    If we fail to save America and The Enemy is so ruthless that they are willing to defeat legitimate state secessions by any means necessary (I’m skeptical), then fanciful ideas like bleaching Japan or Tropical Surf Aryans seizing and enslaving island territories are on the table. Bear in mind that the future isn’t necessarily Brazil if we fail–it could very well be South Africa.

    Other options include weakening the American federal government until we have Swiss cantonal style autonomy, or emigrating to Karlin’s triune Russian Empire and LARPing as varangians. We wuz Rurikidz n sheet.

    If you have an EU passport, you should establish a plan to get a residence in the Visegrad 4 while you still can.

    Vox Day has said we might have to change our thinking on timescales. We might need to think in terms of CENTURIES to retake our countries. Like the Reconquista. If that’s what it takes, so be it.

    And yes, I am just a businessman. But from what I’ve seen of the alt-right “leaders” thus far, it seems to be wise that I avoided a premature retirement to enter politics.

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  28. Jon0815 says:

    In the meantime, this would give future President Thorfinnsson time to engineer permanent white supremacy into the Constitution.

    Not a viable option. Ultimately, the only hope of preserving a white-majority civilization on the USA’s territory, is to break up the country.

    I believe that the USSR disintegrated about 15 years after ethnic Russians ceased to be a majority? If so, with non-Hispanic whites forecast to become a minority in the USA around 2045, the same pattern repeating itself would mean the USA disintegrating around 2060.

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  29. @Aly

    On forein policy, yeah Trump let neocons take over but still there is not any big problematic actions they took.

    Apart from seeking to destroy the nuclear agreement with Iran, thereby humiliating Britain, France and Germany (US ambassador to Germany basically made some kind of ultimatum on Twitter that German companies should now immediately withdraw from Iran), and making totally clear that the US apparently values its relationship with its “allies” Israel and Saudi-Arabia (which have never contributed anything at all to America’s various military projects) much more.
    Trump and his asshole supporters can go to hell as far as I’m concerned.

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  30. Yevardian says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Hugely depressing.

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  31. @German_reader

    Who gives a shit about the Iran agreement? Why was Europe so obsessed with this to begin with?

    The problem in your country isn’t whether or not Allianz has the right to issue insurance policies in Tehran.

    It’s the two million rapefugees that Merkel invited. It’s that only 62% of children under five are ethnic Germans.

    America treating its Western European “allies” with open contempt is just a symptom of that. You people are supposedly Das Herrenvolk, aren’t you? As we say in America, are you a man are or a mouse?

    And other countries can learn something from Israel and Saudi Arabia. America’s foreign policy, and many other policies, are for sale. Germany has a lot more money than either the Jews or the Arabalonians.

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  32. Yevardian says:
    @Polish Perspective

    How much has Greece deteriorated/improved since that date, for anyone familiar with that country?

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  33. Yevardian says:
    @DFH

    LOL, you don’t think the EU isn’t run by the exact same people?

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  34. Yevardian says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    What, such a lifestyle of struggle and honour doesn’t appeal to you? I thought you Americans were rugged individualists and rebels? Aren’t you here to remind us Europeans how we’ve abandoned our true heritage and beliefs?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4785976/Richard-Spencer-vows-Charlottesville-demonstrations.html

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=606&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=cuUBW4cnhcjQBPfzm4gL&q=nathan+damigo+punch&oq=nathan+damigo+punch&gs_l=img.3…1936.4134.0.4367.8.8.0.0.0.0.393.628.2-1j1.2.0….0…1c.1.64.img..6.1.234…0j0i30k1j0i24k1.0.MQZlpCKLge0#imgrc=YcJ8V4MkK3u0yM:

    https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=606&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=weUBW8bUN8XC0gSw57qwBQ&q=jordan+peterson+pepe&oq=jordan+peterson+pepe&gs_l=img.3..0l10.10187.13473.0.13626.20.14.0.1.1.0.398.1884.2-5j2.7.0….0…1c.1.64.img..12.8.1906…0i67k1.0.NIHdimgThlQ#imgrc=oFk_RKwf_JzOnM:

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  35. @Yevardian

    I don’t put much stock in the division between Americans and Europeans. Probably because my parents are in fact Europeans. The Enemy will consume us all if we don’t destroy it first.

    Like many others in America I worked hard to get Trump elected. I am proud to say I helped deliver my state.

    We didn’t know what to expect after that, but we expected better than this. I was hoping for ten million deportations by now. I agree with an earlier commenter that Trump is doing some good with a weak hand.

    I like my career. I wish that I lived in a normal time in a normal country so that I could continue to devote myself to my career fully. There’s a reason Americans have so much nostalgia for the 1950s.

    Instead I’m forced to contemplate other things.

    And I’m not unique here, except I am apparently more creative than all of you (besides Karlin himself).

    Isn’t that why we’re all here? And it really might all come down to us. There’s something about the commenters here that’s different from elsewhere on the internet. Stranger things have happened in history.

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  36. Aly says:
    @German_reader

    Who cares about Iran? All that you wrote to me is completely trivial, who cares about Iran deal. If neocons want to fight with Iran (but with words and sanctions, not full scale military intervention (because that is expensive and risky, not because it’s wrong)) let them do that.

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  37. @Aly

    If neocons want to fight with Iran (but with words and sanctions, not full scale military intervention, because that is expensive and risky, not because is wrong) let them do that.

    You’re a cretin, people like you deserve to be drowned in a sea of Mexicans.

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  38. Aly says:

    America will cease to be non-hispanic white-majority in couple of decades but it will still be white-majority…just not non-hispanic white majority. Ok not all of Hispanics (let’s pretend that’s a thing) are white but a solid majority is. But American whites are alienatig them because they are stupidly Anglo-centered. Latin white are more sane now, also better looking :). I don’t understand why coservatives or alt-right or whoever doesn’t look more openly and optimisticaly to Latin America. Countries there are more sane now, also more conservative, more Christian, and i would say more European than a lot of Anglo-world and even parts of Europe. Also there are no Muslims there.
    Trump is different here also, he talks normaly to Hispanics…and a lot of them voted for him.

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  39. Aly says:
    @German_reader

    I don’t hate Mexicans. And i’m not American. Just like America.
    It would be nice if we in Europe had Mexico or Latin America as our southern neighbours.

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  40. @Thorfinnsson

    But from what I’ve seen of the alt-right “leaders” thus far, it seems to be wise that I avoided a premature retirement to enter politics.

    This is very correct. It’s a complete and total trainwreck; even Buzzfeed has a lot of catching up to do.

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  41. Jayce says:
    @Dmitry

    One thing I found kind of interesting is that when you browse VK it’s very noticeable that the groups with a “White” focus tend to attract a lot younger people than communist or Putinist/patriotic ones. Some of the most popular and active pages about monarchism and things like that seem to be run by very young people, even teenagers in a few cases. They do things like circulate online petitions to change street names back to their original pre-Revolutionary ones, there’s this one guy who organizes these events to honor a different forgotten Great War hero every few days and raise public awareness about that war. Way more productive and creative than anything I see from America’s Gen Z at least.

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  42. @Aly

    I trust my lying eyes over whatever you’re reading.

    The hispanics who come here are generally mestizo, or worse, mulatto.

    A lot of mestizos claim to be white because whiteness continues to be a status symbol south of the Rio Grande.

    Why would we look optimistically at Latin America? It’s plainly obvious that Latin Americans are inferior to us. They also don’t accept our identity over some stupid contrived bullshit claiming that they too are Americanos. They literally call us “United Staters” and claim that America is a continent, not a country.

    The greatest achievement of the Latin Americans is…what? Chile’s low tax rates and secure property rights? The literature of Borges? Porfirio Rubirosa?

    They’re mediocrities whose natural status is complete domination by Anglos.

    But owing to the current bizarre configuration of American politics, they’ve been weaponized by The Enemy against us. The solution to this is to liquidate The Enemy, after which we can do what we please with hispanics (starting with the elimination of their voting rights).

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  43. @Jayce

    Way more productive and creative than anything I see from America’s Gen Z at least.

    No offense, but how is obsessing about WW1 or monarchism “productive”? Are these really relevant issues?

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  44. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Tropical Surf Aryans seizing and enslaving island territories are on the table.

    It would need just to combine the money together and buy an island like Santo António off Africa.

    For citizenship, an intelligence/behavioural/psychological test for admission, so that only small numbers of civilized, calm, psychologically normal, presentable in social life, and physically clean, citizens enter.

    We would need to hire marketers to advertise it as a ‘fashionable shoe shopping destination’, to have any hope of hot girls applying for citizenship.

    For economics, it could become the world leader in scientific research into sunscreen and air-conditioning.

    It might also be wise to give ceremonial ‘princeship of the island’ to Nikolai Lukashenko, if we would like any of hope of our trade-routes coming under protection of the battleships, frigates and submarines of the Belarus Navy.

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  45. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    I find it increasingly hard to care about US demographics or the interests of white Americans.

    Right back atcha, GR.

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  46. There are many ways we can get the territory we need. Once we get it, we’ll likely have to align with China. This is why I proposed the Philippines as an alternative to the Caribbean (our historical Zion). Not only can China plausibly defend the Philippine archipelago, it is in China’s interests to do so.

    We don’t need any hot girls to “apply” for citizenship at all. That’s the kind of thinking we need to leave behind. Rome didn’t market shoes to the Sabine women, nor did the vikings do so to get their Irish brides on Iceland.

    Economics would initially center on tourism, agriculture, and international business services. As our numbers increase we can reenter the manufacturing sector, starting first with low level import substitution (e.g. brewing and bottling beer domestically).

    It might also be wise to grant ceremonial ‘princeship of the island’ to Nikolai Lukashenko, if we would like any of hope of our trade-routes coming under protection of the powerful battleships, frigates and submarines of the Belarus Navy.

    I think rather we will need to grant overlordship to the wise Emperor Xi.

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  47. @Anatoly Karlin

    Failed efforts like Charlottesville aside, we’re still very much in our Marxist scribbling stage.

    The most interesting activist right now is Wild Goose 999.

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  48. @iffen

    Don’t know what you’re trying to tell me, the predominant attitude about Germany’s predicament I’ve noticed among Americans is mockery and contempt…certainly not any kind of sympathy. Which is all the more irritating since US foreign policy (while certainly not the only or even primary cause) does play a role in creating the “refugee” issue.
    Anyway, I know my opinion comes across as harsh, but given that millions and millions of Trump supporters have apparently learned nothing at all and still support a Mideast policy that’s probably going to have terrible consequences, my patience is rather limited.

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  49. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I think rather we will need to grant overlordship to the wise Emperor Xi.

    /
    I forgot to insert an image of the Belarus Navy.

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  50. iffen says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Isn’t that why we’re all here?

    What do you propose as the antecedent for that?

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  51. Jayce says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Only Matt Forney can truly understand the Philippines: you’ll need his wisdom if you’re gonna pull this off.

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  52. @German_reader

    Anything that further demolishes sovok (without displacing it with its latest reiteration, neoliberalism.txt) is an unalloyed good.

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  53. @iffen

    The Founding Fathers, the Bolsheviks, the Fascists, and the Nazis all come to mind.

    There are also the Fire Eaters and the Redeemers from the South.

    If we choose a colonial project over the revolutionary road, then the Zionists, Order Knights, and Baltic Germans come to mind.

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  54. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I think rather we will need to grant overlordship to the wise Emperor Xi.

    Incidentally, Nikolai Lukashenko is already far ahead in this game, perhaps securing favourable markets in China for Belorusian shrimp and herring exports.

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  55. @German_reader

    The attitude of those Trump supporters on foreign policy can be an asset rather than a liability.

    They aren’t independent thinkers, and they’re crying out for leadership.

    We can lead them.

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  56. @Dmitry

    Lukashenko recently lauded Merkel for her “refugee” policy:

    http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/weissrussland-alexander-lukaschenko-lobt-merkels-fluechtlingspolitik-15558500.html

    Apparently he thinks criticism of Merkel is unfair and that she acted wisely, because Europe’s getting too old and needs foreign workers.
    Totally destroyed any positive impressions I might have had of the man.

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  57. @Thorfinnsson

    We can lead them

    No offense, I like you, but how do you imagine that to be possible? It’s not like those people are going to read your comments on Unz review, and established “conservative” media aren’t going to feature any dissenting voices.
    I just find it depressing, because I actually did have some hopes about Trump’s presidency (which looks rather foolish in retrospect). Now it looks like Trump’s greatest “achievement” might well be some catastrophic Mideast war and/or even worse confrontation with Russia. And the cause of immigration restriction, national sovereignty etc. might even be damaged by Trump…if he manages to stumble into some disastrous war with Iran or something of the sort, anything and anybody associated with him (possibly even including pro-Trump right-wingers in Europe) will be tarnished by that.

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  58. All tnose Utah Mormons of Welsh descent holding out against the flow. Trump need stop emphasise his Scottish roots.

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  59. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    Lukashenko recently lauded Merkel for her “refugee” policy:

    He lauds that Merkel does something stupid. – I don’t think he will be losing sleep that his enemy country is doing something stupid.

    It’s not like young Kolya plays the piano with a German girl.

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  60. @German_reader

    The reason so many people hero worship Trump, aside from his undeniable charisma and swagger, is that for the very first time many ordinary Americans feel they have a champion who cares about them and is willing to fight The Enemy.

    Trump unfortunately isn’t up to the job, though it appears he’s starting to realize what he is up against. And that’s not my point anyway.

    It’s that politics are tribal and emotional, and because we do care about these people we can lead them.

    As for how we do that, I do not yet know. Like I said, I’m a businessman. But I’ve realized I have certain talents that other people do not have, and these talents may come in handy.

    And the cause of immigration restriction, national sovereignty etc. might even be damaged by Trump…if he manages to stumble into some disastrous war with Iran or something of the sort, anything and anybody associated with him (possibly even including pro-Trump right-wingers in Europe) will be tarnished by that.

    The most important thing of all is hope. Never give up hope. As long as you have hope, anything is possible.

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  61. Matra says:
    @German_reader

    Apart from seeking to destroy the nuclear agreement with Iran, thereby humiliating Britain, France and Germany (US ambassador to Germany basically made some kind of ultimatum on Twitter that German companies should now immediately withdraw from Iran), and making totally clear that the US apparently values its relationship with its “allies” Israel and Saudi-Arabia (which have never contributed anything at all to America’s various military projects) much more.
    Trump and his asshole supporters can go to hell as far as I’m concerned.

    You Krauts unilaterally tore up the one million times more important Dublin agreement on refugees then demanded – and are still demanding – that Hungary, Czechia, and Poland knuckle under to their German betters and allow their countries to be flooded with Muslims. This was only a couple of years after insisting, loudly and sanctimoniously, that Greece must adhere to every goddamn letter of every EU agreement and regulation in world history because, well, that’s the German way. Vee alvays follow orders! Then, suddenly, when it came to refugees it didn’t matter what the rest of Europe thought and the German people overwhelmingly endorsed such arrogance. It’s the German way, or the highway. Can there be any doubt that German hatred of Trump has more to do with his opposition to the Million Man Syrian March into Europe than with his opposition to Obama’s Iran pledge?

    Even before Trump gave in to much of the Establishment agenda in the MidEast, that is, when he appeared to be a swamp-draining Buchananite isolationist who would remove US troops from much of the world, over 90% of Germans were anti-Trump. IOW the Germans preferred the Magic Negro, his beloved NATO – in which Germans are freeloaders – and his interventions in Libya and Syria. (I recall Germany also supporting Bill Clinton’s bombing of Serbs on behalf of their old WW2 allies, the Croats and the Bosnian/Albanian Muslims). No matter what Trump does the Germans will hate him just as much as they hate the British for rejecting the German imperial project known as the European Union. Upsetting Germans means he’s at least doing one thing right.

    Bomber Harris did nothing wrong.

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  62. Dmitry says:
    @Matra

    Obama was more popular in Germany before he became president than Trump. (Also in Russia, Obama had positive media reporting of him in 2008).

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  63. vladdy says:
    @anonymous

    You think so? My experience says the opposite…I taught HS and MS’ers thoughout the aughts, and though coastal kids were as you described, as soon as I got back to Midlandia, I saw a different species. As example: in an English class, we were using political essays for persuasive writing practice. The conservative/traditional column (do not remember whose I used) was met with acceptance, but boy, when I read Maureen McDowd — the tension, to say the least, was palpable — particularly among young males. And the support for Trump is almost universal until you get to the university town or one of the two big cities in the state. Rural youngsters know they are referred to as bitter clingers and deplorables by the elite for their traditional values, and they’re rarin’ to fight back….as election results showed (I think my state went DT by something like 10 points.)

    Just accidentally stumbled onto a Vox article claiming Trump was “authoritarian” (in what universe?) and “hideously unpopular” and thought “Geez, that’s the very definition of the out-of-touch coastal elite.” The left is NOT popular among GenZ unless you are in, say, Seattle or St. Louis. So I see hope yet for the generation some are writing off as hopelessly brainwashed.

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  64. Matra says:
    @Dmitry

    Obama is still more popular in Germany. They cry for him every night.

    BTW I worked in Berlin on and off for a period during Obama’s presidency. My impression of them is that they believe everything the media tell them. Whatever you do with Berliners don’t mention even the possibility that nuclear power is not 100% evil or you’ll regret it. Some issues, perhaps most, are not up for debate with Berliners.

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  65. Dmitry says:
    @Matra

    Well Germans are cool, but with such a mysterious and strange civilization, not just in politics. Probably even fluent German speakers, and Germans themselves, do not know what goes on in their stubborn heads.

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  66. @Dmitry

    I remember this well. It was emblematic of everything wrong with white people in general, and Germans in particular here.

    Germans enthusiastically worshiping and cheering for the upcoming mulatto President of the country which defeated their country in war twice, and after the second defeat permanently occupied their country and successfully brainwashed them into hating themselves. Disgraceful self abasement.

    John McCain (die already you piece of shit) also used that video in a terrible negative campaign ad calling Obama “the most popular man in the world”. No wonder he lost the election.

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  67. @Matra

    Obama is also more popular in America itself, though he’s despised by Republicans.

    Propaganda works.

    The level of atomophobia in Germany, a country which prides itself on its engineering prowess and rationality, is appalling and unacceptable.

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  68. @Matra

    You Krauts unilaterally tore up the one million times more important Dublin agreement on refugees then demanded – and are still demanding – that Hungary, Czechia, and Poland knuckle under to their German betters and allow their countries to be flooded with Muslims

    Blah, I’m obviously not in favour of that, but it’s not like the Italians and Greeks were unhappy about ignoring the Dublin agreement, their policy has always been to just send the “refugee” hordes north (and no, they aren’t innocent about this and just subject to the whims of demented northerners, the left in Italy and the Catholic Church have been totally in favour of it, and the EU commissar for migration is Greek “conservative” Dimitris Avramopoulos).

    Even before Trump gave in to much of the Establishment agenda in the MidEast, that is, when he appeared to be a swamp-draining Buchananite isolationist who would remove US troops from much of the world, over 90% of Germans were anti-Trump. IOW the Germans preferred the Magic Negro, his beloved NATO – in which Germans are freeloaders – and his interventions in Libya and Syria.

    Most Germans are idiots, but at least their present idiocy is to a large extent the result of processes our Western “friends” were strongly in favour of after 1945. You got the de-nationalised Germans you always wanted, now live with it.
    As for “freeloading in NATO”, well I dimly recall that (West) Germany maintained a large conscript army before 1990 (back when NATO actually was about European security, not stupid out of area interventions). It also made a massive financial contribution to the 1991 gulf war. It also sent troops to Afghanistan. Which is a lot more than could be said of America’s darlings like that very special country in the Eastern Mediterranean or Islamic terror state Saudi-Arabia. But those special countries get fawned over by the Americans, whereas our interests never matter and some asshole ambassador who probably doesn’t even speak German can tell us on Twitter what we’re supposed to do, as if he were some imperial proconsul or the Soviet ambassador in the Eastern bloc.

    Bomber Harris did nothing wrong.

    Super-relevant statement in 2018.

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  69. @Thorfinnsson

    Germans enthusiastically worshiping and cheering for the upcoming mulatto President of the country which defeated their country in war twice, and after the second defeat permanently occupied their country and successfully brainwashed them into hating themselves. Disgraceful self abasement.

    That’s accurate, and for the record, I absolutely hated Obama’s presumptuousness, how that asshole dared to lecture us about xenophobia, racism or some such rot when he was allowed to speak in front of the Brandenburg gate. Absolutely appalling. But again, the Germans who cheered him are the kind of Germans the US wanted.

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  70. @German_reader

    Freeloading in NATO is an embarrassing meme on the American right. The “freeloading” actually consists of allegedly insufficient involvement in the stupid colonial wars we routinely launch.

    The crazy ideology of liberalism also prevents calling a spade a spade. If it weren’t for liberalism then one could openly call the Western European countries our vassals, then go on to define what dues our vassals owe us and what we protection we owe our vassals.

    Prior to 1989 the statement had more merit. The Cold War Bundeswehr was a serious force, but never adequately funded. The reluctance of Western European countries to spend adequately on defense during the Cold War was really strange. It’s like the two world wars destroyed your will to live or something.

    There was also the massive, and now completely forgotten, Nuclear Peace movement. Millions of Europeans were in it. Their goals were to get American nuclear weapons out of Europe, and for Britain and France to immediately and unilaterally abandon their nuclear weapons.

    Such thinking is…insane.

    That said I don’t actively discourage the freeloading meme here, because it gets Americans thinking about our overseas alliances and bases as burdens.

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  71. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    Saudi Arabia is a very good ally – probably the best – if only from the perspective of the political class.

    They gave matching funds to arm the mujahideen. They paid tens of billions of dollars to cover the cost of Desert Storm. They buy tens of billions in arms from the US. They are located in a very strategic place, where it is possible to cut off most of China’s oil. Most important of all, they demanded that their oil be bought in dollars, to tamper down the runaway inflation that would otherwise take place.

    Was the relationship good for the US? Heck, no! For the political class – yes.

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  72. @Thorfinnsson

    There was also the massive, and now completely forgotten, Nuclear Peace movement. Millions of Europeans were in it. Their goals were to get American nuclear weapons out of Europe, and for Britain and France to immediately and unilaterally abandon their nuclear weapons.

    I know, my late mother had some sympathies for the peace movement…my father always thought it was Moscow-controlled subversion (to some extent probably true).
    Anyway, no question that Germany today spends way too little on its armed forces. I still find the “freeloader” accusation by American right-wingers misguided though. American policy since the end of the Cold war has had only a tangential relationship with genuine European security concerns.

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  73. @German_reader

    Moscow invested massively in Western peace activism. Yuri Bezmenov claims Moscow spent more on the antiwar movement than it did on aiding North Vietnam. Sounds like an exaggeration, but it’s well-known for instance that the World Peace Movement was a Soviet front.

    The question on whether or not Germany spends enough on its armed forces is one of strategy. If German strategy is to resist Russian aggression in concert with its NATO allies, then current spending is adequate.

    If Germany wants to conquer the world, well then you need to spend a little more. :)

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  74. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    Don’t know what you’re trying to tell me,

    You should “care” about what happens to me and to America. I care about what happens to you and Germany.

    As a practical matter, what happens to you and Germany if we go face down?

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  75. @German_reader

    The worst foreign policy faction in America is the Hillary Clinton Democrats.

    As the Hispanic/Asian share of the population increases, this will be the faction that increasingly dominates.

    The Bernie Democrats are mostly SWPLs who feel guilty about their own prosperity, and the Buchanan Republicans are Bible Belt types. These isolationist factions will decline along with the White share of the population.

    You are wishing for President Adam Schiff – which is a very foolish sentiment.

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  76. dfordoom says: • Website
    @German_reader

    For the rest of the world, including Europe, it might perhaps even be better if Hispanicization of the US proceeds unchecked.

    Definitely. Anything that weakens the US is a good thing for the rest of the world.

    A completely hispanic US might also be not quite so dominated by neocons.

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  77. @iffen

    what happens to you and Germany if we go face down

    The US won’t “go face down” (at least not in the sense of some apocalyptic break-up of the country), I don’t see how that’s even supposed to happen (Greasy William’s predictions about some inevitable civil war strike me as fantastical).
    If US elites became more restrained in their foreign policy and weren’t quite as fanatical about multiculturalism/mass immigration as required features of every country in the American orbit, some form of American hegemony wouldn’t be that bad, pax Americana did have many beneficial effects for Europe after all. But US foreign policy has become unrestrained, crazy and dangerous since the end of the Cold war, and the cultural influence today is quite corrosive, so it’s hard to feel completely positive about it.
    Granted, if US influence in Europe were miraculously ended, it’s quite possible that the results would also be pretty bad, given how decadent many Europeans and how incompetent European politicians are. Maybe Europeans could actually become even more extreme in their open borders projects, in a desire to show themselves as more tolerant and enlightened than Americans. Or they might turn fascist and engage in conflicts with their immigrant communities or even in wars between different European countries. Or maybe AK’s nationalists could come to power in Russia and conquer parts of Europe. One can certainly imagine many negative scenarios.
    In any case, the future’s probably going to be horrible, so one should enjoy the present.

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  78. anonymous[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @vladdy

    I taught HS and MS’ers thoughout the aughts

    Then it sounds like you’ve got the wrong generation, by about a decade. The oldest Gen Z’ers are high schoolers today. It’s a nice anecdote about millennials, though, but nobody thinks of millennials as being an overall conservative generation.

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  79. Silva says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Had the president been white, would the rest of that paragraph still be bad? How should Germans regard the US’ president?

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  80. Kinez says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Yugoslavia had unrestricted travel, which Hungary did not. It was normal, at least for the middle class, to travel abroad for holidays, university study, language courses etc both to Western Europe as well as around the Warsaw Pact countries.

    The economic strength of the country is overrated by people today, but in terms of the standard of living of the population and access to consumer goods, it was incomparably better than the countries of the Warsaw Pact.

    Looking at the ex-Yugoslav countries today gives a misleading impression, since Serbia’s GDP is about 80% of the 1990 level, and even Croatia with its small population and over €10 billion a year just from tourism also still has a lower GDP than in 1990.

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  81. @John Gruskos

    But if we assume that German Reader is correct then the population influx from Latin America will make America so dysfunctional and destabilised that it doesn’t really matter as who ever is in power will be too busy trying to keep the country together to pull stupid foreign policy stunts.

    I am not saying that I necessarily agree with him but I understand his point of view. Many Americans (and unfortunately also many Europeans as well) seem, for all their bragging about ‘critical thinking’, to just form their foreign policy views based on a few hackneyed cliches and sob stories from Randomistan they saw on TV or read in the newspapers.

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  82. @Polish Perspective

    …had far fewer restrictions than most countries in Eastern Bloc with perhaps parts of Yugoslavia rivaling it.

    Yugoslavia was never part of the ‘Eastern Bloc’.

    (Neither was China. In fact, China was USSR’s enemy, we even had a hot war.)

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  83. LondonBob says:
    @Matra

    Saturation bombing of civilian areas was morally wrong and ultimately self defeating, but we knew that from the Blitz.

    Of course he also failed to launch follow up conventional raids on the Mohne and Eder dams as they were being repaired, something Speer thought would have been devastating to arms production.

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  84. neutral says:
    @German_reader

    Anyway, no question that Germany today spends way too little on its armed forces

    No, this is can be questioned, if Germany needs to spend more you need to point out why exactly needs to spend more. I cannot think of a single foreign nation that is a serious threat that is about to invade Germany.

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  85. Assuming that Generation Zyklon shitlords will be able to withstand SJW brainwashing in the modern college madrassas, this would overturn the conventional wisdom and and ensure Republican hegemony for a few more decades, at least until the population goes majority non-White by mid-century.

    “Republican hegemony” is not going to save us. Over the last generation, they’ve simultaneously controlled all three branches of government twice and never lifted a finger to save the country. Indeed, on foreign policy at least, they’ve arguably been worse than the Democrats.

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  86. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:

    A very important question is what percentage of whites in Generation Z will marry or produce kids outside of the race?

    Gen Z is only 45% white. So may be half 23% will marry the 55% non-whites. How based in race matters can they be? And will the white race even exist in America 3 or so generations after Gen Z? America is not Latin America where whites like being white and so try to keep their lineage that way.

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  87. @German_reader

    Well, it’s all out in the open now, isn’t it! No more cute and cuddly Obama pretending to give a sh*t about Europe. Now Europeans can see–or at least should see–that their interests and Washington’s interests are not the same. Time for the Europeans to quit whining and start acting. Time for them to break free from the ‘Atlanticist’ mafia. If you don’t do it now, you may never again have a chance.

    Trump was never going to come save you; he’s not even in a position to save his own country–assuming that’s what he wants. Europeans simply have to start electing patriots. We can’t do it for you. Hell, it’s an open question as to whether we can even save our own country.

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  88. Yevardian says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Just out of curiosity, were your parents dissidents or something? Even amongst people whose prospects were constrained by the Soviet system, very few of them have the contempt for 80 years of Russian history like you do.

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  89. DFH says:
    @Yevardian

    Imagine getting Stockholm Syndrome’d this hard

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  90. Yevardian says:
    @Matra

    You Krauts unilaterally tore up the one million times more important Dublin agreement on refugees then demanded – and are still demandi…

    (((Krauts)))

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  91. @Yevardian

    Needless to say I don’t owe you any personal explanations, but no, my parents were not dissidents.

    I just don’t feel the need to be a sovcuck. I am sorry if you feel otherwise.

    Now to be sure, it might at least be justifiable if it was at least geopolitically profitable, but as events in the past decade have shown, it is patently not. Nobody wants to have anything to do with the bald syphilitic, the mustachioed Caucasian BDSM master, or the people who worship them (they will take your money though).

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  92. iffen says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    It’s that politics are tribal and emotional, and because we do care about these people we can lead them.

    I admit that I have trouble separating out all of the BS in your comments, but I don’t believe for one minute that you “care” about “all” of “these” people.

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  93. iffen says:
    @German_reader

    if US elites became more restrained in their foreign policy and weren’t quite as fanatical about multiculturalism/mass immigration as required features of every country in the American orbit,

    Sailer has it right with his invade the world/invite the world. The political and ideological forces behind mass immigration are the same ones that get hysterical over American “isolationism.” Trump is a step in the right direction in a fight against inviting the world. If we can build on him and gain some sort of political power that is firmly against mass immigration, it could be extended for work on the invade part. It’s a long shot but it’s the only one we have.

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  94. Dante says:
    @Jon0815

    I believe your correct that it’s likely the US will break up in time much like the USSR did, Audacious Epigone has a couple good articles out now about this and I think it likely to happen and indeed the same thing is happening now in Brazil with the South of the nation which is majority White ( 80% are Europeans descended from the European immigration wave at the turn of the century ) pushing for secession from the rest of the country for the same reasons as in the US.

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  95. LondonBob says:
    @Dante

    The problem is wherever we go the rest of the world wants to follow us. No climate is too harsh, no location too remote for us to left alone.

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  96. LondonBob says:
    @Dante

    Just kicking out California would be highly beneficial.

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  97. whahae says:

    With the collapse of the Alt Right and Trump turning out to be a damp squib, it might well be that Gen Z is the last best hope for America to remain a somewhat American country.

    And why would anyone want that? America is the worst permutation of the Eternal Anglo mindset. Its’ demise and collapse is one of the few things I’m looking forward to in the next few decades.

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  98. @German_reader

    Or they might turn fascist and engage in conflicts with their immigrant communities or even in wars between different European countries. Or maybe AK’s nationalists could come to power in Russia and conquer parts of Europe. One can certainly imagine many negative scenarios.

    Why are we supposed to be so afraid of this? Back when European countries expected to fight wars with each other, the elites were forced to develop ideas like nationalism that would actually motivate the average man. The elites favoring transsexuals, “refugee” men who have fled wars, all that poz can only happen when the elites don’t feel that they need the loyalty of the majority population in an armed conflict.

    Whatever new shape such ideologies would take would surely be more favorable to the white heterosexual man than the current state in which European elites expect to gain their security by imitating the beliefs of American elite universities in order to be counted as one of the “liberal democracies” that Pax Americana will protect.

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  99. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Prior to 1989 the statement had more merit. The Cold War Bundeswehr was a serious force, but never adequately funded. The reluctance of Western European countries to spend adequately on defense during the Cold War was really strange. It’s like the two world wars destroyed your will to live or something.

    There was also the massive, and now completely forgotten, Nuclear Peace movement. Millions of Europeans were in it. Their goals were to get American nuclear weapons out of Europe, and for Britain and France to immediately and unilaterally abandon their nuclear weapons.

    Such thinking is…insane.

    This all reflects the same societal pathology that today leads to willingly allowing their own countries to be overrun by non-natives. The problem was evident long before the migrants appeared.

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  100. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    They created Rio, which is a lot better than the Grand Canyon as a place to go see.

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  101. Mitleser says:
    @Polish Perspective

    We were and always will be a buffer state, or a hybrid state if you want softer language. This obsession with Westernisation is unhealthy. It’s not who we are, or who we have been.

    In the past, definitely.
    Nowadays, not so much.
    Poland was moved westwards in the last century.

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  102. Beckow says:
    @Polish Perspective

    The wording is extremely deceptive – in all V4 countries there is a deep bias against anything ‘east’ or sometimes ‘Balkan’. When you ask West-East you don’t get a political reply, but a cultural identity one. Something similar holds for questions about communism-pre-1989, lots of people liked how they lived pre-1989, but couldn’t stand the communists.

    Globsec is a political organisation devoted to spreading certain ideology – their ‘polls’ are structured to affirm what their sponsors’ are paying for. I was at Globsec last week in Bratislava and the allowed opinion range was somewhere between ‘enthusiastic liberal globalism’ and militant ‘let’s eliminate populists & Russia immediately’. With most speakers throwing in how much they dislike the ‘T-man’. There were panels that resembled Central Committee meetings from a generation ago – they all agreed violently with each other. In other words a meeting of mostly fanatics. So I would take the whole Globsec polling with a grain of salt. They find what they want to find. (But buffets were great and the technology part was also good. And Andrej Babis took 15 minutes to shock everyone with some plain ‘populist’ talk, but then he promptly left.)

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  103. @Anonymous

    I don’t think this is an an important political consideration, as we can adopt a Straussian strategy.

    We win their votes with #MAGA and talking points about BASED black guys or whatever. The point is to achieve complete political power and from there proceed to destroy The Enemy forever.

    After that we establish control over the Cathedral, at which point in time people start to believe what we want them to believe, other than a dedicated core of hardcore liberast fanatics who will be completely excluded from positions of leadership and influence.

    This is the best peaceful strategy for the simple reason that they won’t let us march through the institutions. The ballot box however remains open, and relatively protected owing to their own ideology.

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  104. @iffen

    Does that really matter?

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  105. @anonymous

    From what I’ve seen of white Gen Z’ers in the US deep south and the midwest, they seem to be the most brainwashed generation in history. For them, multiculturalism is the default. Good luck convincing them otherwise when half of their friends are black and hispanic.

    So they do have friends, unlike the alternative (if we believe the highly reliable source of Virgin and Chad memes):

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  106. AaronB says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Marching through the institutions is more feasible than you think.

    But to do so, you must use pretense – you must pretend that you are fully on board with the liberal agenda, really card carrying members of it. You must utilize already existing popular ideas – you do not attack popular ideas or try and make your opposing ideas popular – yet. Once in power, you use the credibility you have gained by agreeing with popular ideas to subtly subvert them. You show that the highest feminist ideas “really” point back to patriarchy, and what the left wanted is “really” what you are offering all along, you are merely living up to the best traditions of the left, etc, etc.

    It doesn’t have to make too much sense – it creates cognitive dissonance in the minds of your hearers, weakening their will to resist. You use logic instrumentally – not to “discover” truth, but to argue for what you know on faith. You don’t need to be too consistent. As you grow more powerful, you can be more open about your agenda. But it is a slow process – decades, sixty, seventy years.

    And you must produce a cadre of white people not too troubled by cognitive dissonance, and are capable of dual-thinking. You must set up madrassas for this. It must be based on firm anchoring in morality and faith – all the philosophical works which show the limitations of logic must be thoroughly studied, as well the recent science which shows self-contradiction is built into nature. Perhaps Nagarjuna can be a central text. You have a core faith that is not open to debate, and is sacred.

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  107. @Dmitry

    Obviously Poland, Hungary, Czech, are European countries, which is evident on the map. But they are not Western European countries, which is also evident on the map.

    Don’t let the Czechs see you writing that ;) They often like to point out that Vienna is further to the East geographically than Prague is, yet nobody ever doubts Vienna being a Western city. An even better example is perhaps Helsinki, which is to the East of all V4 capitals. I don’t think one can reduce this down to geography alone.

    However, the same question could be talking about power-blocs

    I’ll go back to your initial comment, namely when you felt it being vague. I am obviously not the author of the poll, but it could be intentional. You open with a open-ended question like “do you belong in the West” and let the respondents fill in the blanks. How that is defined, what constitutes the West, will be up to each person to define in their own mind and then answer if they want to belong in it or not.

    I’d personally answer more so in an cultural/social sense and only then in terms of power politics. Geography is the least relevant to me. I feel far more kinship to Russian culture than I do to Western culture, and this is not because I despise and/or hate Western culture. I have genuine respect for it. But reading Tolstoy or Dostoevsky makes more sense to me than reading Shakespeare. Solzhenitsyn speaks to my soul far more than any Western public intellectual can.

    But one should note, most Poles still answer that they belong in both camps. That’s probably sound. We’re not fully in either. Some of us, like me, will feel closer to Russia and others will feel closer to the West. Even those of us who like Russia still like Germany, the Nordics etc. I’m more of a North vs South guy than West vs East. The big cultural divide for me is with the Greeks, Italians(especially the Southern parts) etc.

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  108. @Beckow

    I was at Globsec last week in Bratislava and the allowed opinion range was somewhere between ‘enthusiastic liberal globalism’ and militant ‘let’s eliminate populists & Russia immediately’. With most speakers throwing in how much they dislike the ‘T-man’. There were panels that resembled Central Committee meetings from a generation ago – they all agreed violently with each other.

    Sounds like a nice cult meeting for ostensibly secular people.

    But buffets were great

    They always get you with that one. The best food in Warsaw which is still reasonably cheap is often served at restaurants belonging to art educational institutions and the like. The people who eat there are freaks but the food is godly.

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  109. @Toronto Russian

    The future: all political debates conducted through ritual conflict of Chad vs virgin memes.

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  110. Silva says:
    @Dante

    There’s no separatist push in Southern Brazil. There’s a handful of people conducting actual activism, a few percent of Southerners who bother to vote in unofficial referenda (of those, yes, the vote is mostly separatist – needs no explanation), and a somewhat larger fraction (maybe 20%) who’d greatly prefer separation if handed to them on a silver platter. And none of those – to be fair, none of the others either – really understands the consequences. Also, “I am South Brazilian and therefore Germanic” – not. Lastly, at least some of the North-South hostility in current Brazil is political-party-based, and it looks like the Rightists (currently with Southern majorities) will get everything handed to them this year; and, at least for the states’ largest population centers, the cultures aren’t meaningfully different by now.

    - a “white” Southern Brazilian.

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  111. Silva says:
    @LondonBob

    Yes. There are Somalis in Iceland.

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  112. Silva says:
    @Toronto Russian

    Even that can tell you why “Chang” votes with the WN.

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  113. @Jaakko Raipala

    Why are we supposed to be so afraid of this?

    I’m not looking forward to armed conflict, war is a horrible business after all. And while I reject the EU in its current form, I’m not in favour of a return to national rivalries between European countries either.
    I see your point though, the demilitarization of European societies is certainly a major part of European decadence.

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  114. songbird says:
    @Silva

    Brings to mind a very funny 23andme commercial: mixed race young woman – obviously she doesn’t know where her family came from because of paternal issues – takes the test.

    1.) Finds out she is part African – goes to some African country. The camera is filled with smiling, happy go-lucky blacks who play chess against her.

    2.) Finds out she is part SE Asian, goes to probably Vietnam – sees crowds of smiling Vietnamese.

    3.) Finds out she is part Scandinavian. Goes to Iceland. Not even a single white in the frame. It is a vast, empty, beautiful wilderness, ripe for settling. While there is snow, one can wear one’s bathing suit in the hotsprings.

    Someone really should parody these types of commercials. I can think of a few really funny variations. Like, going to Africa and seeing streets filled with trash, being robbed, then being asked for bribes by the police, or getting involved in a tribal war. Seeing the line to get visas at the US consulate. Maybe, there could be a Wakanda version. Could also contrast with a white version, where the white person returns to Europe and see crowds of Muslims praying in the street, etc.

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  115. Silva says:
    @songbird
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  116. LondonBob says:
    @German_reader

    Actually war is a lot of fun. My great grandfather was a key worker and was assigned to a munitions factory but all his brothers were in the trenches on the Western Front and enjoyed it.

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  117. Beckow says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Yeah, cult is a good way to describe it. The insane rush for buffets is something to behold, these are wealthy people, they eat at will, but the elbows come out for that curry chicken. Almost makes one reconsider the benefits of ‘multi-culturalism’…eh, no, not worth it…

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  118. iffen says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Does that really matter?

    Not really, but if you are intent on becoming a political leader in the U. S. you have to do a better job of faking it.

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  119. notanon says:

    What do you think?

    “Fight Club” was prophecy

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  120. @Corvinus

    “corvinus”, who has no moral compass, is in no shape to evaluate mine.

    and he is incapable of simple math.

    % world population White:

    1900: 30%
    2000: 8%
    2100: 0%

    that’s the Judeo-globalist plan, publicly proclaimed by Tribals from Sontag to Soros, and the physical evidence is clear to anyone with an IQ above room temperature.

    which excludes “corvinus”.

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  121. Dmitry says:
    @Polish Perspective

    I’d personally answer more so in an cultural/social sense and only then in terms of power politics. Geography is the least relevant to me. I feel far more kinship to Russian culture than I do to Western culture, and this is not because I despise and/or hate Western culture. I have genuine respect for it. But reading Tolstoy or Dostoevsky makes more sense to me than reading Shakespeare. Solzhenitsyn speaks to my soul far more than any Western public intellectual can.

    I’m not sure East/West divide exists in high culture in Europe.

    Few writers have more influence in Russian literature than Shakespeare. And historically, in the 19th century, French writers like Flaubert were very influential.

    Equally, American writers like Ernest Hemingway were heavily influenced by Tolstoy (which they read in English translation, which shows how important translators can be).

    Nietzsche was strongly influenced by Dostoevsky (I guess Nietzsche could read Russian?). And Nietzsche himself was massively influential in early 20th century Russian arts scene (often read in translation).

    As for Solzhenitsyn – I cannot speak as I have not read him. But he seems far more popular and heavily read in the West and in America, than at home, where he is more of a minority interest with not such a large number of readers. I guess he is a good example of cross-cultural attraction of literature (where this writer can be rapidly exported and more popular in translation in the West).

    But one should note, most Poles still answer that they belong in both camps. That’s probably sound. We’re not fully in either. Some of us, like me, will feel closer to Russia and others will feel closer to the West. Even those of us who like Russia still like Germany, the Nordics etc. I’m more of a North vs South guy than West vs East. The big cultural divide for me is with the Greeks, Italians(especially the Southern parts) etc.

    I agree (for any traveller) the traditional cultural differences are stronger in Europe in the North/South dimensions than in the West/East dimensions.

    In the West/East dimensions the difference is much more strong in terms of 20th century political and economic history. Therefore why as you say, for example, Vienna is still seen as in the West and Prague in the East.

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  122. Corvinus says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    All you are doing is making a (dire) prediction and assuming it to be true.

    “that’s the Judeo-globalist plan, publicly proclaimed by Tribals from Sontag to Soros, and the physical evidence is clear to anyone with an IQ above room temperature.”

    All your lies are belong to us.

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  123. Corvinus says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    “We win their votes with #MAGA and talking points about BASED black guys or whatever.”

    Unfortunately for you, Generation Z is privy to your machinations.

    “The point is to achieve complete political power and from there proceed to destroy The Enemy forever.”

    In other words, you seek to create an oppressive regime.

    “After that we establish control over the Cathedral, at which point in time people start to believe what we want them to believe, other than a dedicated core of hardcore liberast fanatics who will be completely excluded from positions of leadership and influence.”

    Doesn’t work that way. The supermajority of American citizens desire their liberty. All you have here is a fantasy. No course of action. No army. No chance.

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  124. Anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    All your lies are belong to us.

    Why, Corvy, it’s never proper trolling to admit one is lying. I do wish you would try harder.

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  125. Bliss says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Even those of us who like Russia still like Germany, the Nordics etc. I’m more of a North vs South guy than West vs East. The big cultural divide for me is with the Greeks, Italians(especially the Southern parts) etc.

    That makes sense.

    Northern Europeans look like a different breed altogether. To non-Europeans they look quintessentially, unmistakably european. While Southern European types are abundant in the MENA and Caucasus regions.

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  126. Sources of German atomophobia:

    1: We got pretty close to being nuked ourselfs, both in the cold war and in world war 2
    2: Like, every neighbour with nuclear aspiration builds nuclear reactors at our borders, typically in places where the wind goes towards our clay. If these reactors get fucked, its mostly our problem.
    3: Germans really like not being nuked. Nuclear accident is somehow feeling like being nuked. Since Germany has no independent foreign policy (well, we can try to lord over and repress random greeks for no fucking reason, but thou shall not have an opinion different from the Atlanticbrücke), it cannot actually do anything to reduce their risks of getting nuked. This makes being “anti nuclear” a psychological “Ersatzhandlung”.

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  127. @Mightypeon

    It’s still rather hysterical and irrational though imo, and not easy to explain (Germany is way more “atomophobic” than the one country that actually did get nuked and also had a serious reactor incident a few years ago). A large part of the German public is undeniably demented, this isn’t a serious country. Maybe it’s really got something to do with the decades of Germany not being really sovereign, it might explain the childishness of many Germans and their feminine proneness to hyper-moralistic discourse.

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  128. dfordoom says: • Website
    @neutral

    No, this is can be questioned, if Germany needs to spend more you need to point out why exactly needs to spend more. I cannot think of a single foreign nation that is a serious threat that is about to invade Germany.

    Agreed. The western European nations do not face any military threat whatsoever.

    There is only one reason why anyone would want the Europeans to spend more on their militaries – to make more money for the American military-industrial complex.

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  129. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Seamus Padraig

    “Republican hegemony” is not going to save us. Over the last generation, they’ve simultaneously controlled all three branches of government twice and never lifted a finger to save the country. Indeed, on foreign policy at least, they’ve arguably been worse than the Democrats.

    OK, so the Republicans have betrayed you every single time. But this time it will be different. Really. This time they promise not to betray you. And you can trust them. Have you ever known a Republican politician to lie?

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  130. “and atomically blast spaceships into space”

    You and you faggoty atomic rockets. Not going to happen and not just because of PC reasoning. I used to be skeptical of reusable rockets but if Musk can deliver on his BFR promises then that will be just as cost effective. Try to live in the real(istic) world for once.

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  131. “In the meantime, this would give future President Thorfinnsson time to engineer permanent white supremacy into the Constitution.”

    I think the Republicans are to pussified to try this. It would work miracles if it happened but they believe in “democracy” and “One Man One Vote” to much to attempt that. Guys like Paul Ryan go to bed crying every night wishing that republicans would stop being so mean to POCs.

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  132. @Anarcho-Supremacist

    The current Republican Party is too pussified (and openly traitorous), as other commenters have correctly noted.

    Parties can however be taken over and transformed.

    They can also be destroyed and replaced (e.g. Republican Party replaced the Whig Party).

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  133. If you think about this, this could be indeed the fundamental crux of ideological conflicts: whether the increased fecundity of conservatives leads to a more significant hereditary advantage for conservatives, or if the environmental impact of liberal schooling has a more successful advantage for producing liberals.

    Nature vs nurture.

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  134. iffen says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    the increased fecundity of conservatives

    Are you thinking of the cucked conservatives like Mormons?

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  135. iffen says:
    @Dmitry

    As for Solzhenitsyn – I cannot speak as I have not read him. But he seems far more popular and heavily read in the West and in America, than at home

    Prophet/honor thingy.

    King James Bible
    But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

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  136. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Politics (some vague complex of different reasonings and reactions to society) is not heritable, just possibly some partly causal correlates of politics are heritable.

    For example, a more simple thing like higher academic intelligence (which might partly be heritable) is correlated, in our present political systems, with more liberal distribution of politics (much more complicated phenomena) in a population.

    Mechanism by which differential fertility rates within population would influence distribution of political attitudes within the populations, will be probably through lowering academic intelligence in the population, as in the film ‘Idiocracy’.

    Although it is a fair question whether it would not be desirable to have less intellectuals in the tea-house, and larger proportion of redneck cattle. Intellectuals often seem to have crazier and more bizarre politics than rednecks, as politics is not an area which responds positively to theorising or too much thinking (the more people think about it, the stupider their ideas and the more they venture into unsupported conjectures).

    There are countries which already have this dilemma (rednecks vs intellectuals) in a very clear way.

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  137. songbird says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Some believe that there is an emotional bonding that takes place between impressionable kids and the state at public schools, even beyond the curriculum. Along these lines, what is interesting to consider is how most Catholics used to go to Catholic schools, but I believe it was some Supreme Court decision which changed the funding formula, which resulted in the majority being put into public schools.

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  138. iffen says:
    @Dmitry

    Intellectuals often seem to have crazier and more bizarre politics than rednecks

    LOL

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  139. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    There is an interesting (well vague speculative hypothesis) article by American free-market philosopher Robert Nozick, on why people who were nerds at school will often fell in love with the government redistribution and oppose free-market.

    The intellectual wants the whole society to be a school writ large, to be like the environment where he did so well and was so well appreciated. By incorporating standards of reward that are different from the wider society, the schools guarantee that some will experience downward mobility later. Those at the top of the school’s hierarchy will feel entitled to a top position, not only in that micro-society but in the wider one, a society whose system they will resent when it fails to treat them according to their self-prescribed wants and entitlements. The school system thereby produces anti-capitalist feeling among intellectuals.

    There is a further point to be added. The (future) wordsmith intellectuals are successful within the formal, official social system of the schools, wherein the relevant rewards are distributed by the central authority of the teacher. The schools contain another informal social system within classrooms, hallways, and schoolyards, wherein rewards are distributed not by central direction but spontaneously at the pleasure and whim of schoolmates. Here the intellectuals do less well.

    It is not surprising, therefore, that distribution of goods and rewards via a centrally organized distributional mechanism later strikes intellectuals as more appropriate than the “anarchy and chaos” of the marketplace. For distribution in a centrally planned socialist society stands to distribution in a capitalist society as distribution by the teacher stands to distribution by the schoolyard and hallway.

    Our explanation does not postulate that (future) intellectuals constitute a majority even of the academic upper class of the school. This group may consist mostly of those with substantial (but not overwhelming) bookish skills along with social grace, strong motivation to please, friendliness, winning ways, and an ability to play by (and to seem to be following) the rules. Such pupils, too, will be highly regarded and rewarded by the teacher, and they will do extremely well in the wider society, as well. (And do well within the informal social system of the school. So they will not especially accept the norms of the school’s formal system.) Our explanation hypothesizes that (future) intellectuals are disproportionately represented in that portion of the schools’ (official) upper class that will experience relative downward mobility. Or, rather, in the group that predicts for itself a declining future. The animus will arise before the move into the wider world and the experience of an actual decline in status, at the point when the clever pupil realizes he (probably) will fare less well in the wider society than in his current school situation. This unintended consequence of the school system, the anti-capitalist animus of intellectuals, is, of course, reinforced when pupils read or are taught by intellectuals who present those very anti-capitalist attitudes..

    The article is possibly quite interesting for 20th century history.

    https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/policy-report/1998/1/cpr-20n1-1.pdf

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  140. @Dmitry

    Politics (some vague complex of different reasonings and reactions to society) is not heritable, just possibly some partly causal correlates of politics are heritable.

    I think this is a faulty premise, and increasingly so with polarization of society. Insofar as personality is hereditary to some extent, for example, the disgust reflex, it will greatly select for a certain political type. If I fundamentally cannot stand gays, socialization and positioning might select me to become a hardcore Muslim or alt-right shitlord(spandrell as written as to the thought that there might be a type of personality just selects for extremist positions); but either way, I will find a way to express my disgust.

    What I think that socialization and schooling can do is to significantly influence through conformity toward the current religious of liberalism, with something like 30% or so college students adopting more liberal attitudes, likely due to passive pressure and the finding that it was easier to come out as gay in Google than as a conservative.

    One thing to consider is that the “evolutionarily novel” or mentally deranged in some way are more likely to survive now due to society’s more indulgent state, which can be reflected by the increasing number of left-handed individuals as a proportion(left-handedness being a decent proxy of atypical genetic spread). It seems safe to consider that essentially, we increasingly are of a society of evolutionarily novel mutants without the typical forms of hygiene to prune off members.

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  141. @songbird

    IIRC nationalism, which was in a way, originally a liberal concept(since it redirected attachment of the child from his family and local physical aristocracy to the abstract notion of nation) heavily relied on public schooling so that it would be able to create that abstract bond.

    What previously could only have been conjured as “love the Queen/King” could now be reattuned toward “love the country” which had, of course, far less concrete and could be interpreted divergently by anyone in a way that you couldn’t really misread, for example, Tsar Karlin. Tsar Karlin would tell you exactly why you were wrong, whereas the abstract notion of Russia approves of everything you think Russia should be.

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  142. @German_reader

    A large part of the German public is undeniably demented.

    To the extent they are demented, they are so because they’ve been programmed to be that. Even ‘redpilled’ Germans often underestimate the deep-seated brainwashing that all Germans go through. I find talking the JQ even with German nationalists to be hard, since they have layers upon layers of propaganda in their head that is interfering. That’s by design. And this is some of the most independent-minded people I’ve met. Being a right-wing radical in a country like Germany is no small feat. Much harsher conditions than in Poland, which is anything but a nationalist paradise, but certainly far more lenient.

    Maybe it’s really got something to do with the decades of Germany not being really sovereign, it might explain the childishness of many Germans and their feminine proneness to hyper-moralistic discourse.

    That’s an interesting observation, and one I’ve made myself, though not just with regards to Germans but to North Europeans in general. I think part of the reason why many North European countries have done so well is because they are egalitarian. I am a dissenter on the right when it comes to equality. I don’t view it as an unremitting evil in all instances.

    Take the abolition of serfdom. If I am not mistaken, Sweden didn’t even abolish serfdom because it never had a similar system in the first place. Meanwhile, in countries in the East, the oppression of the poor and the farmers was really intense. While we can discount ‘egalitarianism’ today, it certainly made a positive impact on the marginalised in our communities from a historical perspective. The big problem, to me, is that it doesn’t seem to have a natural barrier. It just transcends infinitely across new categories and borders without discernment. This is what is typically called pathological altruism.

    The relative equality also made people more prosperous, and a more equal society is less likely to have social tensions. If you add racial and cultural homogeneity on top of that, you get a very efficient social organisation to organise and it is far easier to motivate everyone at every stack to pull in the same direction. What happens when a wildly successful gets taken too far? It becomes a caricature and ultimately self-destructing. That, I think, is what you’re seeing. But all I’m saying is, don’t throw the the baby out with the bathwater. There are good reasons why Germany was so successful, and Northern Europe in general, and while no single answer can ever hope to accomplish a full explanation, the cultural factors surrounding general equality is at least one small piece of the puzzle. Compare to the feudal systems in the East, where there was far less loyalty between the poor and the weak and everyone else, and the instability and lack of trust that brings.

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  143. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I think this is a faulty premise, and increasingly so with polarization of society. Insofar as personality is hereditary to some extent, for example, the disgust reflex, it will greatly select for a certain political type. If I fundamentally cannot stand gays, socialization and positioning might select me to become a hardcore Muslim or alt-right shitlord(spandrell as written as to the thought that there might be a type of personality just selects for extremist positions); but either way, I will find a way to express my disgust.

    Personality orientation will be partly heritable, but its political expression something totally arbitrary to the specific times.

    For example: in Soviet Union, a person with stronger disgust response orientation may perhaps be expressed by stronger gullibility to propaganda about social parasites and bacteriological metaphors about enemies of the people; in Early Modern Florence perhaps to heretics; in Nazi Germany, perhaps to Jews, Slavs; in American Democrat circle of the 2018 – to online commentators with Russian names, who post their friendly opinion underneath a liberal newspaper article (don’t try this), etc. I can imagine in contemporary Sweden, this kind of orientation will probably most often be directed to sexists.

    This kind of personality orientation can perhaps correlate with a specific political position, but only when it is placed in the same political matrix or system. In another words, we have very little from it to predict changes in political matrix itself, but maybe some prediction of behaviour within a specific one.

    You can know this very well by the way when you compare your political views to people of different generations, who have similar certain specific personality habits to you, but had grown up in
    different political era. I have the same political optimism as one of my uncles, but the politics could not be more different – the fellow is a strongly Soviet supporter.

    -

    Academic intelligence is a more interesting mechanism. Not just because it is the clear way you can link to fertility rates (as academic intelligence is correlated with occupational status, life-style, etc). But also because intelligence determines an entire style of political reasoning, which can be constant in different societies and political systems across thousands of years – for example, Plato’s Republic already outlines the same thoughts intelligent people nowadays have about politics in 2018 (although with different social constraints on the discussion). And you can already see in it why this level of thinking in politics often leads to disasters, that stupider people avoid.

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  144. @Dmitry

    For example: in Soviet Union, a person with stronger disgust response orientation may perhaps be expressed by stronger gullibility to propaganda about social parasites and bacteriological metaphors about enemies of the people; in Early Modern Florence perhaps to heretics; in Nazi Germany, perhaps to Jews, Slavs; in American Democrat circle of the 2018 – to online commentators with Russian names, who post their friendly opinion underneath a liberal newspaper article (don’t try this), etc. I can imagine in contemporary Sweden, this kind of orientation will probably most often be directed to sexists.

    No, that’s a bridge too far to connect so widely but which I think is sensible to you as a liberal. We can note this in two ways: first, the Satoshi Kanazawa argument of what is evolutionarily novel – it isn’t novel to be concerned with outsiders, gays, witches, snakes or spiders, but it is novel to be concerned with sexists. The disgust response is quite specific and concrete; the divergence from it is almost certainly due to the reduced selection against evolutionarily unnatural preferences and the survival of individuals who bear them. It is not endlessly malleable. It will find its expression in different forms but its targets are not too varying.

    Secondarily, working from the Haidt’s consideration, conservatives have more moral dimensions to be worried about. Such a thing is innate and which I can personally relate to; fundamentally liberals have fewer moral dimensions and attempting to fit in that paradigm fails as much as attempting to fit a polygon inside a square hole. For example, I remember a conversation when I was younger and a more of a moderate: I was talking to a woman about how I objected to the dismissal of tradition, she replied that she simply picks and chooses a tradition to follow, and alters what is needed. That was innately revulsive to me, as I correctly identified that it is not in fact any submission to a tradition(and thus, authenticity through sacrifice), but merely individualistic choice that covers it with a scant veneer of claiming some labels to it.

    So no, I do think that personality dimensions will find themselves significantly expressed through nature. The exact form will vary, and a significant extent will be altered and molded by the rather oppressive systems of socialization, but it shines through enough. I doubt anything could have made me a liberal: I remember the moment when “they” became a single to use, for the “accommodation of genderfluid” and I promptly decided that I would rather see humanity gone and replaced by cockroaches before I would submit to using the term.

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  145. @Polish Perspective

    I find talking the JQ even with German nationalists to be hard, since they have layers upon layers of propaganda in their head that is interfering.

    It’s not just propaganda, it’s based on different historical experiences. Unless one is either a Holocaust denier or a Holocaust affirmer, there’s no way of getting around the fact that Germans during the Nazi era did murder a majority of Europe’s Jews, which by any ethical standards can only be considered a monstrous (and quite irrational) crime. That’s a lot of guilt, and for Germans who still have some personal connection to the Nazi era it’s not merely an abstract issue. The NSDAP had almost 8 million members by 1945, and even if one doesn’t have any SS men among one’s relatives, there’s a lingering anxiety what one’s relatives might have done (how reliable are their recollections about the 3rd reich really? Maybe they lied to obfuscate their own role). This also makes any positive identification with the German past very difficult.
    I’d also say Germany’s experience with its Jewish minority was rather different from Poland’s. I’m unconvinced there was a “Jewish problem” in Germany before 1933, since long-established German Jews were a comparatively small minority (many fewer than Turks and other Muslims today) and fairly assimilated. They had also undeniably made some positive contributions to German culture. Also patriotic service…when you stand in some Jewish cemetery and read gravestones of Jews who fought and died in WW1 on the German side, it’s hard not to feel that Nazism was pretty mad in that it went even after the families of such people.
    The situation in Poland, it seems to me, was much more a genuinely multicultural one, with Jews being a very numerous minority, a separate people really, which was to some degree in a real conflict of interest with Poles, had little in common with Poles (if I understand correctly many Jews didn’t even speak Polish), and whose members at times acted against Polish interests (e.g. notably in the disproportionate role of Jews in the Communist secret police after WW2, also in pro-communist activities by Jews during the 1939-1941 Soviet occupation).
    So I don’t think the difference in views is that surprising.

    I am a dissenter on the right when it comes to equality.

    I think I’m largely in agreement with you here, I have little sympathy for neo-reactionary ideas about the greatness of feudalism, monarchy, aristocratic castes etc. While class does play a role and excessive levelling (e.g. in the school system) is undesirable imo, excessive inequality in a citizen body is indeed an evil imo.
    The problem is indeed the unreasonable and forced extension of feelings of solidarity towards groups which don’t reciprocate.

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  146. @German_reader

    There was a Jewish problem in pre-1933 Germany, even if it was nothing like the situation in prewar Poland (or even in America today).

    Just look at a list of names of the leaders of the Free Socialist Republic of Germany.

    The problem was noted in Germany at least since the 1870s, and probably earlier by some.

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  147. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    At the very least, I think public schools help desensitize people to the ridiculous aspects of government. For instance, the general experience at the registry of motor vehicles – it is very bad. It is a wonder that the average person can tolerate it without helping to form a torch-bearing crowd, on the spot. Maybe, going to public schools helps prevent that sort of thing by inculcating a deference to authority.

    There is so much busy-work in schools that it is easy to believe that there should be some change to the formula. Sometimes, I even believe a “Lord of the Flies” type of environment, where kids could socialize with each other, rather than needing to be quiet for so long would be better.

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  148. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    We know instantly that this discussion of personality orientations is false in relation to political content, because the stereotypical personality orientation that might correlate with determining a ‘conservative’ in America, would likely determine with being a communist in Russia.

    It’s only ‘researchers’ from a very universalizing or parochial culture like Americans, that I believe would not instantly perceive this and start laughing at the idea.

    Before 1917, the same stereotypical personality characteristics that would correlated with being a communist in 1970, would have correlated to being anti-communist.

    Personality characteristics that would correlated to being communist in 1915, would have correlated to being anti-communist in 1988.

    The political content which is related to such personality orientation is arbitrary, but what changes is the position of the political content in the society – and the personality orientation is tracking an orientation to society, rather than the actual content of the belief.

    To continue, let’s imagine the year 1970, and the topic is historical materialism. ‘Personality orientation’ of stereotypical conservative in Denver, would – for man in Volgodonsk correlate with belief in historical materialism; while for the man in Denver it would correlate with rejection of historical materialism.

    Personality correlates of believer in historical materialism in 1970 Denver, would more likely correlate with rejector of historical materialism in Volgodonsk.

    The personality orientation and the content of the belief is unconnected, and we (or rather history) can vary it in all kinds of comical ways.

    The thing is – what is actually interesting and relevant is the political content itself, which is why the personality orientation becomes quite uninteresting as a subject (except if you are designing marketing for a political ideology to attract different demographics to it).

    – it isn’t novel to be concerned with outsiders, gays, witches, snakes or spiders, but it is novel to be concerned with sexists. The disgust response is quite specific and concrete; the divergence from it is almost certainly due to the reduced selection against

    It’s interesting that you mentioned witches . Because of course the personality traits that supported people hunting witches and outsiders in the witch trials of 17th century Sweden, are very much related to those trials of sexists and racists in 2018 Sweden.

    And these situations can reverse and change with a hilarious rapidity

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  149. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    doubt anything could have made me a liberal: I remember the moment when “they” became a single to use, for the “accommodation of genderfluid” and I promptly decided that I would rather

    We could probably change this very easily. If we raise you in “genderfluid” society (in which we told you “all people have been and will be genderfluid for thousand of years, as the ancestors dictated”). And then introduce some radical and threatening proposal to revolutionize society with the concept of “non genderfluidity” that would terrify any people with over-active amygdalas.

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  150. @Dmitry

    At that rate, it would probably be easier just to surgically edit my amygdala. And no, I would disagree because fundamentally it would reduce categorization to which point which I would be uncomfortable and naturally seek for a philosophy that encouraged categorization.

    Indeed, I think that you’re missing is the central point of Kanazawa’s argument: that conservative arguments are typically non-evolutionarily novel strategies and therefore have little to do in that sense with socialization. It would involve certain deeply felt realities and are likely highly concrete in its own fashion, and it is likely no manner of socialization would make someone who was disgusted with spiders to greatly fond of spiders. Furthermore, the liberal concept specifically encourages the removal of certain dimensions of morality which to the more conservative mind comes off as simplistic if not revulsive.

    Indeed, you would not know if I was indeed raised in a highly liberal society, and I should note that in many ways that I was. Part of maturation, which I think was helped by the polarization of society, was the cessation of ties to a number of previous contacts who were more moderate because at the end of the day, my principles far outweigh the the value of “friendship” with such degenerates.

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  151. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Indeed, I think that you’re missing is the central point of Kanazawa’s argument: that conservative arguments are typically non-evolutionarily novel strategies and therefore have little to do in that sense with socialization. It would involve certain deeply felt realities and are likely highly concrete in its own fashion, and it is likely no manner of socialization would make someone who was disgusted with spiders to greatly fond of spiders.

    Sure disgust with spiders would have a partly instinctive basis.

    Role of a political technologist will try to exploit these kind of intrinsic fears and habits for their side – to associate the political enemy with spiders, and the political leader with butterflies.

    (Although these fears can have limits: in Russia, the correct response to finding a beetle is horror; but in Japan, they see them as cute children’s pets; and in China – tasty snacks.)

    My point is that it cannot scale up from distribution of heritable personality traits like this (fearfulness, disgust, etc) in the population, to predict the political orientation of the society itself.

    Within a particular political system, we might be able to partly predict from personality orientations of the individual where they more likely will be located politically (E.g. in America, the Republican Party markets itself more on voter’s fears, so more fearful people may have a higher chance to vote Republican, all other things equal).

    But if you would hypothesize that distribution of these kinds of personality habits can predict the country’s political outlook, history can rapidly make a joke of this. Does the personality distribution in the Japanese population result in a pacifist or a militaristic attitude? (It depends if you ask in 1935 or in 1995).

    On the other hand, there was a little bit of a contradiction written above – that academic intelligence would be the most useful personality correlate in politics. I’d predict on average that it correlates with people believing crazier (more out of box) political ideas, and that redneck cattle can often have less crazy (less radically changing from their norm) views.

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  152. @Aly

    Yes the refugees are now 60% christian whereas under obama they were 70% muslim. This is a massive improvement under Trump.

    I also agree that he can’t just do everything. Patience. Baby steps.

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  153. iffen says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    enmu?

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  154. @iffen

    eloi

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  155. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Although it is a fair question whether it would not be desirable to have less intellectuals in the tea-house,

    The number of intellectuals that we actually need is very very small. Frightening small. In some ways it’s a good thing that high IQ people don’t have children.

    We need to find some means of dealing with surplus intellectuals. I favour sterilising them and getting them to dig ditches for minimum wage.

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  156. DFH says:
    @dfordoom

    I favour sterilising them and getting them to dig ditches for minimum wage.

    Didn’t Mao try that?

    If the Foundation-Industrial complex were destroyed and grants to universities cut back, then potential intellectuals would have no choice but to become accountants etc.

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  157. iffen says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Just look at a list of names

    I think that GR views it as a commie problem, not a Jew problem, you OTOH.

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  158. dfordoom says: • Website
    @DFH

    I favour sterilising them and getting them to dig ditches for minimum wage.

    Didn’t Mao try that?

    Which proves that Mao did have some good ideas!

    If the Foundation-Industrial complex were destroyed and grants to universities cut back, then potential intellectuals would have no choice but to become accountants etc.

    We definitely need to spend a lot less money on education. We need to spend less at all levels but especially we need to slash spending on higher education.

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  159. @Polish Perspective

    I trust Epigone’s data-finding skills but I distrust his interpretation of them deeply. He was cucking and shilling for Trump up until the very end. Each folding was delusionally interpreted á The_Donald (“cucks BTFO’d!”).

    Only in the very recent time when even the most diehard magatards had to throw in the towel (the omnibus, the total capitulation to the neocons, his signing of blatantly anti-European laws like the so-called ‘JUST Act’ etc etc), did Epigone finally admit the blindingly obvious. Such a man’s judgement is sullied and in disrepute.

    I appreciate the candor and that even though your unimpressed with the punditry, you trust the data. I pride myself on being very meticulous and transparent. It generally takes less than five minutes to verify the data presented and in so doing your trust will be confirmed.

    A few points in my defense wrt Trump:

    1) I’ve never argued “4D chess”–at best I’ve argued that there has been some well-played checkers.

    2) The “diehard magatards” have not thrown in the towel. Trump’s approval rating is the highest it has been in a year.

    3) I’ve been in this thing for a long time. That perspective helps clarify how important the Trump phenomenon has been. If what we get for the next 2.5 years is what we’ve gotten in the first 1.5, he’s still done a heroic service for the Western world. Trust in institutions, particularly political and media, has crashed in no small part because of Trump. The Overton Window is much wider now than it was two years ago, and while the executive capture of Republicans by neocons remains in play, neoconnery is no longer a viable electoral strategy at all. Trump is a transitional figure who can still do some good. I see no reason to abandon him now.

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  160. Betlo says:

    Not everything is lost in Sweden either:

    http://www.friatider.se/sjukl-vern-i-chock-60-procent-av-elever-i-kristianstad-r-star-sd

    The article is in swedish but google translate should do the trick, the essence of it is that:

    -Over 60% in a Highschool election in a swedish medium sized town voted for the SD (Swedish Demokrats – ak Swedish Nationalists).

    -According to some pupils teachers were treating them to lower their grades if they didn’t vote the “proper way”

    -The pupils had demanded a debate about equality and immigration politics but this was denied….

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