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Fourth Reich vs. Fake News

On November 23 the European parliament adopted a non-binding resolution on fighting Islamist propaganda and “information warfare” against the EU.

I was surprised too but no, apparently by that they didn’t have in mind jihadist shill Julian Roepcke, and the Lügenpresse that did more than anyone else to discredit the EU by remaining silent on the Rape of Cologne for days after the event.

Just kidding. It was predictable as clockwork. Of course Russia is to blame.

Anyhow, here is a map on how the vote went:

eu-votes-against-socalled-fake-russia-news

The geographic distribution is quite curious – it correlates almost perfectly with the German sphere of influence (as estimated by the German Foreign Office a decade ago).

germany-sphere-of-influence

The North German empire – now, after Trump and Brexit, perhaps the world’s standard-bearer of Atlanticism – and its quasi-satellites have the most decidedly anti-Russian positions. Notably, Fidesz is part of this grouping, for all the alarmed rhetoric about Orban as Putin’s Trojan horse in Europe.

Instead, the real division in Europe, in attitudes towards Russia as in economics, is between the Hanseatic North and the Roman core – Orthodox Greece and Cyprus, Italy (about to vote “No” in their referendum and land the next big blow against globalism), France (where the two leading candidates for the Presidency are both notable pro-Russian), and Bulgaria (which recently replaced its Russophobe President).

What makes this all the more ironic is that throughout his reign Putin has devoted the most attention to and expressed the warmest attitudes to Germany.

He should have paid more attention to what his own favorite philosopher, the “fascist” Ivan Ilyin, wrote on the matter more than half a century ago: “We must part with sentimental illusions. After the Bolsheviks, Germany is the main enemy of Russia… It is an instinctive dream of several German generations – to move to the East and [to] transform it into a “historical pile of manure” – cannot and should not be considered now extinct: It will be reborn as soon as the right political conjuncture appears.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Germany, Propaganda 
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  2. I don’t believe German influence has much to do with attitudes towards Russia in Poland or the Baltic states, anti-Russian sentiment is well-established there (and not without reason).
    Ideas that Germany still intends to march eastwards, dominate Europe etc. also seem misguided to me, the way things are going Germany is well on the way to national exstinction (the city I’m living in is estimated to be only one third ethnically German in 2030, the same will be true for large parts of the former West Germany). I’ll admit though that there’s a certain demented anti-Russian attitude among segments of the German public which I don’t quite understand. The opposite sentiment, a certain Russophilia, however also exists (especially in the former East Germany, for whatever reason).

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I agree with you that Poland etc. have nothing to do with German influence, and everything to do with them being formerly oppressed by both Czarist and Soviet Russia. There was a similar attitude in Hungary, but at least since the early 2000s it's constantly receding. Orbán himself used to be heavily anti-Russian until maybe 2009, but even among his party base it was getting weaker and weaker, and now he's not much against Putin or what Putin is doing east of the current NATO/EU border. (I'm not sure how he would react if Russia really did attack the Baltic states, but I don't think there's a realistic chance of that at the moment.)

    So I think that right now German influence could be the only reason Orbán is still so anti-Russian. (If this map is accurate - I'm not so sure.)
  3. Looking at the map again, I’d say the results in former Eastern bloc countries might be due to memories of Soviet dominance…that’s certainly likely to be the case in Poland and the Baltic states.
    Don’t know what’s up with Slovenia and Croatia…maybe some way of getting at Serbia?
    Netherlands…well, the shootdown of MH 17 probably didn’t improve Russia’s image.
    Don’t find the “Fourth Reich” explanation convincing. Austria (probably the only “friend” Germany will ever have, but was neutral during the Cold war) certainly doesn’t fit that explanation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N
    Benelux has had a lot of concealed influence over Russia due to its indirect control (through multitude offshore proxy firms) over much of Russian business. MH 17 in that context is not a starting point, but anyway makes a good case of conspiracy.
    , @reiner Tor

    Austria (probably the only “friend” Germany will ever have
     
    Croatia will be your friend. Have you never been there? A few German friends told me that was the only place where they were really liked for being Germans. Besides creating independent Croatia in WW2, you also helped Croatian independence a lot in the early 90s. You might have forgotten, but the Croats haven't.

    Hungarians will support Poland against Germans (or any other country), but otherwise we might be at least moderately friendly to you, too. (Oh, the bittersweet memories of having lost two world wars together in a row... Plus the Habsburg effect.)

    Maybe Slovenia and Slovakia, too, I'm not sure. Other than that, maybe Arabs like you for all the good things you did with Hitler... just kidding.

  4. @German_reader
    Looking at the map again, I'd say the results in former Eastern bloc countries might be due to memories of Soviet dominance...that's certainly likely to be the case in Poland and the Baltic states.
    Don't know what's up with Slovenia and Croatia...maybe some way of getting at Serbia?
    Netherlands...well, the shootdown of MH 17 probably didn't improve Russia's image.
    Don't find the "Fourth Reich" explanation convincing. Austria (probably the only "friend" Germany will ever have, but was neutral during the Cold war) certainly doesn't fit that explanation.

    Benelux has had a lot of concealed influence over Russia due to its indirect control (through multitude offshore proxy firms) over much of Russian business. MH 17 in that context is not a starting point, but anyway makes a good case of conspiracy.

    Read More
  5. @German_reader
    I don't believe German influence has much to do with attitudes towards Russia in Poland or the Baltic states, anti-Russian sentiment is well-established there (and not without reason).
    Ideas that Germany still intends to march eastwards, dominate Europe etc. also seem misguided to me, the way things are going Germany is well on the way to national exstinction (the city I'm living in is estimated to be only one third ethnically German in 2030, the same will be true for large parts of the former West Germany). I'll admit though that there's a certain demented anti-Russian attitude among segments of the German public which I don't quite understand. The opposite sentiment, a certain Russophilia, however also exists (especially in the former East Germany, for whatever reason).

    I agree with you that Poland etc. have nothing to do with German influence, and everything to do with them being formerly oppressed by both Czarist and Soviet Russia. There was a similar attitude in Hungary, but at least since the early 2000s it’s constantly receding. Orbán himself used to be heavily anti-Russian until maybe 2009, but even among his party base it was getting weaker and weaker, and now he’s not much against Putin or what Putin is doing east of the current NATO/EU border. (I’m not sure how he would react if Russia really did attack the Baltic states, but I don’t think there’s a realistic chance of that at the moment.)

    So I think that right now German influence could be the only reason Orbán is still so anti-Russian. (If this map is accurate – I’m not so sure.)

    Read More
  6. @German_reader
    Looking at the map again, I'd say the results in former Eastern bloc countries might be due to memories of Soviet dominance...that's certainly likely to be the case in Poland and the Baltic states.
    Don't know what's up with Slovenia and Croatia...maybe some way of getting at Serbia?
    Netherlands...well, the shootdown of MH 17 probably didn't improve Russia's image.
    Don't find the "Fourth Reich" explanation convincing. Austria (probably the only "friend" Germany will ever have, but was neutral during the Cold war) certainly doesn't fit that explanation.

    Austria (probably the only “friend” Germany will ever have

    Croatia will be your friend. Have you never been there? A few German friends told me that was the only place where they were really liked for being Germans. Besides creating independent Croatia in WW2, you also helped Croatian independence a lot in the early 90s. You might have forgotten, but the Croats haven’t.

    Hungarians will support Poland against Germans (or any other country), but otherwise we might be at least moderately friendly to you, too. (Oh, the bittersweet memories of having lost two world wars together in a row… Plus the Habsburg effect.)

    Maybe Slovenia and Slovakia, too, I’m not sure. Other than that, maybe Arabs like you for all the good things you did with Hitler… just kidding.

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    "Other than that, maybe Arabs like you for all the good things you did with Hitler… just kidding."

    That's actually the case with some Arabs. I know of a former teacher of mine who met some wealthy Gulf Arabs during a vacation. Those Arabs openly stated that they liked Germany because Germans had killed so many Jews (just a pity they didn't get all of them), that Hitler was a great man etc. Needless to say, this made my former teacher highly uncomfortable.
    I know of the German-Croatian connection though my impression is that it's strong mostly in relation to Catholic areas of Germany (especially Bavaria), less so for Germany as a whole.
    I've never been to Hungary either, unfortunately, but my German grandfather passed through the country during WW2 (probably in 1941) and thought the general attitude was fairly pro-German...so I guess there's a certain tradition here :-)

  7. @reiner Tor

    Austria (probably the only “friend” Germany will ever have
     
    Croatia will be your friend. Have you never been there? A few German friends told me that was the only place where they were really liked for being Germans. Besides creating independent Croatia in WW2, you also helped Croatian independence a lot in the early 90s. You might have forgotten, but the Croats haven't.

    Hungarians will support Poland against Germans (or any other country), but otherwise we might be at least moderately friendly to you, too. (Oh, the bittersweet memories of having lost two world wars together in a row... Plus the Habsburg effect.)

    Maybe Slovenia and Slovakia, too, I'm not sure. Other than that, maybe Arabs like you for all the good things you did with Hitler... just kidding.

    “Other than that, maybe Arabs like you for all the good things you did with Hitler… just kidding.”

    That’s actually the case with some Arabs. I know of a former teacher of mine who met some wealthy Gulf Arabs during a vacation. Those Arabs openly stated that they liked Germany because Germans had killed so many Jews (just a pity they didn’t get all of them), that Hitler was a great man etc. Needless to say, this made my former teacher highly uncomfortable.
    I know of the German-Croatian connection though my impression is that it’s strong mostly in relation to Catholic areas of Germany (especially Bavaria), less so for Germany as a whole.
    I’ve never been to Hungary either, unfortunately, but my German grandfather passed through the country during WW2 (probably in 1941) and thought the general attitude was fairly pro-German…so I guess there’s a certain tradition here :-)

    Read More
  8. What’s curious for me to see in that map is Serbia. So much for “brotherhood” huh.

    That said, of course VVP spends most of his time courting the power brokers like Germany. I mean, the US was and remains our… “rival” at best; but we can’t help but interact with it given its power and influence.

    Read More

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