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How can you identify a cargo cult culture? (Or, as Thorfinnsson elegantly calls them, “fake and gay countries”?).

Well, here’s one thing I notice about many of them.

They’re obsessedobsessed! – over naming conventions for their countries and cities in foreign languages.

ukraine-kyiv-again

For instance, precisely nobody in The Netherlands – to the best of my knowledge – cares in the least about having an article appended to their name in English, presumably because they are quite successful and don’t have a raging inferiority complex.

ukraine-kyiv-not-kiev

But write “The Ukraine” (vs. the “correct” Ukraine) or “Kiev” (vs. the correct “Kyiv”), and you’re sure to have hordes of outraged svidomy knocking down your door and flooding your mentions.

Fortunately, most people from non-cargo cult countries aren’t submitting:

ukraine-not-kyiv

Even Mikhail Khodorkovsky, the ur-nemesis of Putin, who joined them Ukrainians on Euromaidan, sent the svidomy packing when they demanded he write the grammatically incorrect “в Украине” [in Ukraine] as opposed to the grammatically correct “на Украине” (at the Ukraine).

khodorkovsky-and-svidomy-trolls

Khodorkovsky: “Please don’t tell us the rules of our own language. Make Russian your second state language – then we’ll talk.

Consequently, Ukrainian media outlets WROTE OUTRAGED HEADLINES about Khodorkovsky’s Twitter rebuke, reaching levels of fakeness and homosexuality that should not even be possible.

Another gay though admittedly not fake country is Georgia, which has demanded its “friends” stop calling it Gruzia – as is standard throughout the Slavonic world, but – as it recently discovered – is in fact a relic of its “oppression” under Russia.

So far, it seems the only country that cares is Lithuania, another gay and mostly fake country:

The speaker of the Lithuanian parliament, the Seimas, Viktoras Pranckietis, said Lithuania’s official name for the Caucasus nation will be changed by 2018 as a “great gift” from Vilnius to the Georgian people, the website BaltNews reported.

Are there any examples of non-fake and gay countries making a big deal out of such matters?

Only example that comes to mind is China, which started encouraging people to use Beijing instead of Peking. But this was just a function of China adopting pinyin as its standard Romanization (whereas there is no official Romanization standard for Russian).

And it never made a big deal out of this, anyway.

Ergo for Czechia low-peddling its transition from the Czech Republic. Czechia is simply more accurate. But they don’t mind if you beg to differ. Czechia is neither fake nor particularly gay, despite allowing LGBT partnerships.

Seriously, is there any non fake and gay country that makes a fuss over naming conventions that don’t concern geopolitical disputes? I can’t think of any.

 
• Tags: Humor, Linguistics, Ukraine 
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  1. notanon says:

    multicultists only pronounce/spell foreign words as they are pronounced/spelled in the native language when they think they’re superior to those nations (and feel guilty about it).

    for example Paris isn’t “Paree” and Munich isn’t “Munchen” cos they don’t feel superior to French and Germans.

    Having place names anglicized in English language media is a subconscious compliment.

  2. The diplomatic dispute between Greece and Macedonia. This doesn’t fall into the category of a geopolitical dispute either. The Greek demand is that Macedonia (which in Greece is always referred to as FYROM or Skopje) change its name.

    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje. But at its peak Macedonia responded to Greek hostility (Greece has been single handedly blocking Macedonia’s accession to NATO and the EU) with a highly amusing campaign of building massive statues of Alexander the Great (whom the Macedonians claim was, somehow, a slav). Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.

    Here’s a letter that mostly Greek classical scholars wrote to Obama a decade ago: http://macedonia-evidence.org/obama-letter.html

    What’s unique about this dispute is that Greek outrage is over what another country calls itself, rather than what other people call Greece.

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.

    Not really in the same category as these disputes, but related, are places which governments insist on renaming. Very common in former European colonies, and it was also common in the USSR and East Germany.

  3. RELATED!

    I had a two-hour long argument with two people about “Ukrainian nationalism.”

    I need help from Anatoly and the masses of this blog with these questions:

    I am looking for empirical historical/social answers to the following questions

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?
    2) Are “Russian-speaking” populations in eastern Ukraine the result of Stalinist forced population transfers? Or have they been there a good long while?
    3) Didn’t Nikolai Gogol once say his soul was both Russian and Ukrainian? Are there any great Ukrainian poets and figures from the past who wouldn’t agree with him?

    Perspectives from Ukrainian StormFags or rather more sensible lads like AP are welcome! Diversity is strength!

  4. Mumbai. British Indians still pointedly refer to it as Bombay. Indeed, the local High Court is still called Bombay Court, lawyers being conservative and tricky.

    “The Ukraine” is grammatically correct as the translation of Ukrania is March, a borderland where inhabitants have rights to bear arms. March is preceded by a definite article. The Welsh Marches, The Roussilon March, The Brandenburg Mark. There is an exception with the early Anglish Kingdom of Mercia, the name being an early form of March.

    Ukraine is only correct insofaras the Ukrainian government has requested that it is so called in official correspondence.

  5. @Thorfinnsson

    “Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.
    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.”
    Some of those Bulgarian historical figures may have been Macedonian or predecessors of what would become Macedonia. Similarily too how Roman philosophers could be concieved of as predecessors of present day Italians. Whether you accept the name Macedonia is up to you. The Macedonians of today may be a seperate ethnic group as some of them claim or be a part of the Bulgarian nation, similar to how Bavarians are German.

    The South Slavs of the Balkans are descendants of both indiginous Balkan people preceding the Slavic migration aswell as Slavic migrants. Individuals from other genetic clusters have also joined the South Slavic genetic pot. Some of those indiginous Balkan people may have been Greeks and/or Macedonians. Most or some may descend from other indiginous Balkan people like Illyrians, Thracians, Dacians, etc. Present day Fyrom is located primarily in the region of Paeonia. Therefore it may be more reasonable to assume that the greater part of Balkan admixture came from them rather than ancient Macedonians. When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonia_(kingdom)#Culture
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#Eastern_European

  6. In 2008 Orbán promised to officially change the name of Georgia from Grúzia to Georgia (both g’s pronounced as in leg, the vowels are also different from English, in general slightly more difficult to pronounce than Grúzia, but the name of the people sounds silly with many vowels, georgiai, while the other version, grúz, is significantly easier), and then he followed through after 2010. But literally no one is using it, only when making a point. Although Grúzia is of Russian origin, and it only came into use after 1945, it’s pretty entrenched by now.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Not Raul
  7. Romania has a more complex issue. Internally, we used “Romania” since the country was only a dream, and at least since the switch from Cyrillic. Most notably, the Declaration of Union signed 100 ago calls the country Romania, with an “O”. But we were OK with “Rumania” in most other languages, including in the French and English paperwork signed at the end of WW II.

    We then pushed for “Romania” for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals “ruman”.

    Skip ahead to 1990’s, and surprise: Gypsies have rebranded as “romas”. We thought we are getting everyone to call us, as we call ourselves, the sons of Rome, when, in fact, we became (even more) mixed up with Gypsies.

    I am not getting very worked up on that since I know Gypsies will try rebranding again. Any name they peak becomes a slur in a few years, so repeated rebranding is needed – similar to mental retard and homosexuality.

    AFAIK, Hungarians go through rebranding as well. They were also known as Magyars, Huns, Austrians, Turks.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @El Dato
    , @JLK
    , @melanf
  8. Mr. Hack says:

    Seriously, is there any non fake and gay country that makes a fuss over naming conventions that don’t concern geopolitical disputes? I can’t think of any.

    Well, it’s quite cogent of you you to point out that there’s more to these grammatical disputes than just punctilious bickering amongst lexicologists. 🙂

  9. @Dacian Soros

    AFAIK, Hungarians go through rebranding as well. They were also known as Magyars, Huns, Austrians, Turks.

    But these were not pushed by Hungarians themselves.

  10. El Dato says:

    Well Belgium is pretty F&G but they just fight over whether Bruxelles should be called Brussels or Bruxelles and whether french should be understood to be ignorable/utterly foreign/hostility-inviting in the flemish part.

  11. El Dato says:
    @Dacian Soros

    Gypsies were Eurorebranded “Kzinti & Roma” back in the 80s, weren’t they?

    Because “Zigeuner” was demeaning (I wonder why).

    To the point where asking for a Zigeunerschnitzel isn’t done anymore. Would it be racist to the ex-veal on the plate? Rootless cosmopolitans want to know.

    • Replies: @Anon
  12. DFH says:

    How is Lithuania a fake country?

    • Replies: @Turgot
  13. Matra says:

    In Ireland;

    Northern Ireland v North of Ireland

    Protestants always say the former. Catholics used to insist on the latter but since the 1998 referendum when they formally recognised the Northern Ireland state (even if only temporarily) started to say the former more often, especially when in mixed company.

    Ulster v The Six Counties

    Because Protestants have so aggressively, and somewhat arrogantly, claimed the former the Catholics generally don’t use it unless speaking about history or the local rugby team.

    Londonderry v Derry

    Protestants use both for the city and county fairly indiscriminately without much fuss but Catholics absolutely always say ‘Derry’ unless they work in an official capacity (eg. BBC news reader) then they must alternate between the two.

    British Isles v These Isles

    Protestants always say ‘British isles’ and think saying ‘these isles’ is retarded. Catholics usually say ‘these isles’ but probably don’t really mind if a non-Irish person inserts the ‘British’ part as they know they’re not likely trying to score political points.

    Even football v soccer has come up a few times with the more anal Catholics insisting on referring to the non-indigenous game as ‘soccer’ like they do in North America and Australia. Even most Catholics would roll their eyes at this.

    • Replies: @Serrice
    , @Tyrion 2
  14. DFH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.

    They probably are mostly the descendants of ancient Macedon in a genetic sense. Mainland Greece was at one time almost entirely Slavic speaking as well before it was turned back, so genetically I doubt there is much in it. To be honest, neither of them are really living up to their ancestors.

    • Replies: @Rattus Norwegius
  15. Matra says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The dispute has unfortunately calmed recently, as cooler heads now prevail in both Athens and Skopje

    I think it pop up again over the recent referendum on NATO?

  16. WHAT says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Golodomor™(correct spelling here) was just as much if not more of a tragedy for russians because it was not contained to khokhol habitation areas. The whole thing is a dumb aping of Holocaust™ brand without the ability to extract shekels.

    There were no specific population transfers™ deserving of the name in the region, with Crimea and tatars there being the only exception. People peopling(lol) DNR and LNR have lived there for a long time.

    I can`t help you with Gogol, but it`s well known that even khokhol darling Shevchenko despised mova pseudolanguage and had his own notebooks in russian. Hell, why look back at all when you can watch any kind of video from their parliament right now and see them screaming at each other in russian?

  17. SveVid says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    There was hardly any Greeks in Macedonia until about 100 years ago (since 1913) when hordes of Greek refugees from Turkey were settled there….name places, toponims were all changed to Greek ones (from Slavic) in the period since then.

    The ancient Macedonians were considered barbarians by the ancient Greeks and vice versa and always fought on opposite sides….including during Alexanders conquests

    • Replies: @DFH
  18. Anon[599] • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor

    It must be very much on folks’ minds.

  19. DFH says:
    @SveVid

    The ancient Macedonians were considered barbarians by the ancient Greeks and vice versa and always fought on opposite sides….including during Alexanders conquests

    That is not true, Herodotus talked about their Greek ancestry and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games because of it. The only time most of the Greeks fought on the same side (before being conquered by Macedon) was during the Persian invasions, and although the Macedonians did medise, so did many other Greeks (including the Thebans).

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  20. Anon[599] • Disclaimer says:
    @El Dato

    Kzinti & Roma

    That would be more interesting, but I think they use Sinti.

  21. JLK says:
    @Dacian Soros

    I am not getting very worked up on that since I know Gypsies will try rebranding again. Any name they peak becomes a slur in a few years, so repeated rebranding is needed – similar to mental retard and homosexuality.

    That’s known as “The Euphemism Treadmill.”

  22. Dmitry says:

    Another funny thing they are always angry against is pronouncing like укрАинцьі rather than украИнцьі, and like УкрАина instead of УкраИна.

    he write the grammatically incorrect “в Украине” [in Ukraine] as opposed to the grammatically correct “на Украине” (at the Ukraine).

    It’s more childish as a dispute than imagined or reported, if you know that until the 2000s, “на Украине” – was the most commonly used amongst Ukrainians themselves

    elegantly calls them, “fake and gay countries”?).

    I guess if the objective of the “elegant” language, is to attract readership of 12 year old gamers.

  23. @Rattus Norwegius

    Population replacement in agricultural civilization is relatively uncommon. Modern Turks and Hungarians for instance have precious little Turkic or Magyar blood. Thus even without investigating the genetic heritage of modern Macedonians, I have little doubt that they are mostly descended from the ancient Paeonians.

    Paeonians, however, weren’t Greek. Thus it is odd that these South Slavs consider themselves Macedonian. I don’t know what else to call them of course, and not being Balkanoid swine myself it’s not an issue I can consider important.

  24. LH says:

    Czechoslovakia was “Czechoslovak Socialistic Republic” from 1960 until 1990. Proposed change back to the “Czechoslovak Republic” made some Slovaks berserk. Czechs didn’t understand why this is a problem. To satisfy everyone the state was renamed to “Czechoslovak Federative Republic” in Czech and “Czecho-Slovak Federative Republic” in Slovak. This felt so silly, that after just one month, the name was changed again to “Czech and Slovak Federative Republic“, with the same spelling in both languages. One year later dissolution of Czechoslovakia was agreed.

    Slovaks now spell “Czechoslovakia” as “Czecho-Slovakia” regardless of historical context, and forced this style into all articles of Slovak Wikipedia.

    This truly idiotic dispute helped to keep alive the long version of the name – “Czech Republic” (Česká republika) . Nobody wanted yet another round of renaming. However, two decades later schools quietly adopted the otherwise disliked short form (Česko), and when kids grow up, they won’t have any attachment to the traditional long form.

    During the intewar period we had the same kind of disputes.

  25. songbird says:

    I had to look up that bit on Seinfeld where Newman and Kramer were playing Risk on the train and mention “the Ukraine”, Kramer calling it weak and raising the ire of a faux Ukrainian who says “Ukraine is strong” and upsets the board.

    I prefer “the”. It somehow sounds stronger. Something a country should aspire to be. Besides, any distinction should be savored, since globalists wish to destroy all distinctions.

    • Replies: @Anon
  26. anon[397] • Disclaimer says:

    See also: the good people of Scotland, who have strong feelings about the word “scotch”. “Fake and gay” covers it pretty well.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @dearieme
  27. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    If I recall correctly, the 1932-33 Soviet famine (a.k.a. “Holodomor”) was by far most disastrous to the Kazakhstanis, if viewed from an ethnic perspective. But, just like the previous 1920-22 Soviet famine, and the 1890-93 Russian famine, ethnic Russians suffered greatly as well, and typically these famines were concentrated to the Russian farmlands of the Volga basin, though occasionally stretching as far as to the Urals and the Dnepr.

  28. songbird says:

    Greeks seem to be a proud people, from my acquaintances. Maybe, that is stoked a bit by what the Turks did to them…

    All the mainland ones are more or less a bit Slav. I doubt if there is any great genetic differences between them and Macedonians. And the latter country does at least contain part of Philip II’s kingdom. I’ve heard it explained that it is about territory. That Tito had designs on Greek lands or even the Aegean. Still, I think it is mostly about pride. What went wrong for the Greeks is a question many ask.

    But I think Turkey is quite a gay country. You have to be gay to change the name of one of the most famous cities in the world. Egyptians did not change the name of Alexandria. And to claim you are a part of Europe, just because you have the tip of your nose in it!

  29. songbird says:
    @anon

    And how gay are the Latinos that take offence at “America” and “Americans” for the USA? Any of those countries have “America” in their name? Do they even know where the word comes from? A puny European compared to Columbus.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
  30. Have seen some Czechs get cranked up about ‘Czechia’ because they feel it is less representative of the Bohemian-Moravian split in the country, than ‘Czech Republic’ – Moravians being under 15% of the total, a little too tiny to go full Slovak-separatist

    Well in ‘fake and gay’ Belgium today the anti-migrant Flemish demonstrators out-numbered the pro-migrant leftist groups, about 5500 to 1000

    The right wing and tagging-along hooligans faced off the police, right at the centre of the European Commission district, some breaking glass on the EU buildings etc

    One right wing slogan was ‘Linkse ratten, rol uw matten’ – ‘Leftist rats, roll up your mats’, i.e., pack up & get out

    Lots of photos here, including the masked gents kicking in the EU doorways
    https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/foto-s-veldslag-tussen-betogers-en-politie-in-30-beelden~abd72930/

    • Replies: @LH
    , @notanon
  31. @Rattus Norwegius

    When you look at at South Slavs it is obvious that their phenotype is not the same as that of Poland.

    This qualifies as the understatement of the day.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  32. Anon[599] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird

    Is there anything to be said for a theological interpretation of Seinfeld where Newman is Newman and Kramer is Cranmer?

    Probably not.

    • LOL: songbird
  33. @songbird

    And, as everyone here I am sure knows, “AmeriCa” (with a C) results of a typesetting error that occurred circa 1507 in Saint-Dié (nowadays France but HRE back then). It should have been AmeriGa instead (with a G).

  34. LH says:
    @Brabantian

    Have seen some Czechs get cranked up about ‘Czechia’ because they feel it is less representative of the Bohemian-Moravian split in the country, than ‘Czech Republic’ – Moravians being under 15% of the total, a little too tiny to go full Slovak-separatist

    The reasons for unpopularity of the short form were linguistic, historical and psychological. The word Česko/Czechia felt artificial and ugly sounding. There was no single word for the Czech lands, also the Latin name Bohemia (after a Celtic tribe) collided with later Slavic names. Experience of absurd name disputes with the Slovaks in the 1990’s helped to keep the long form. The fear of further breakdown of the country was real.

    Short name confusion was also present in German language, with Tschechei and Tschecheien variants. (Tschecheien won.)

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @Anon 2
  35. notanon says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    1) Was the Holodomor as much a tragedy for “Russians” as it was for “Ukrainians”?

    yes and no -iirc the famine itself was very widespread but there was maybe an additional element in Ukraine because of their resistance to the Bolsheviks during the civil war.

    • Replies: @Anon
  36. Cyrano says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    I don’t think you have the necessary qualifications to play Racist in Chief when trying to sort out the differences between the Slavs. Let’s just say this about the southern Slavs: – don’t let the good looks fool you.

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
    , @Mikhail
  37. notanon says:
    @Brabantian

    hopefully Bane will be along soon

  38. notanon says:
    @LH

    Czechia sounds pretty cool imo.

  39. Here’s google trends in Ukraine for “kiev” vs “kyiv”.

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=UA&q=kiev,kyiv

    Kyiv is not going to happen… it’s not ergonomic for English speakers to type. It’s also not obvious how to pronounce it. It could be one or two syllables. It’s extremely rare for “y” to be proceeded by a consonant and fallowed by an “i”.

  40. Turgot says:

    Do you in Russia use the word “Rzeczpospolita” on Poland? The official name of Poland is “Rzeczpospolita Polska” which means the Commonwealth of Poland, not as it’s wrongly translated the Republic of Poland

    • Replies: @melanf
  41. Turgot says:
    @DFH

    Lithuania is fake because it’s a typical country created in 19. century based only on ethnic background and works of art, a country created by journalists, freemasons, professors, philologists, poets and such

    • Replies: @DFH
  42. @Philip Owen

    The unwritten convention is cities that were in fact built by the British like Bombay are referred to as such in popular conversation.

    Other places and geographic features that were renamed by the British have reverted to their native names Ganges is called Ganga,Poona,Cawnpore is now Pune,Kanpur etc.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  43. @reiner Tor

    Is there anything to it? Or just the usual fake news?

    The media takes a marginal group, reports on it every now and then and pretends each time as if it is a new phenomenon.

    Here is one from over a year and half ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/06/russia-revolution-tsarist-school-moscow-nicholas-ii

    Malofeyev said the same thing then, I don’t see any evidence that it is more than the personal belief of him and his followers:

    ”Malofeyev, however, said it could happen sooner than expected, and said he believes it to be quite possible that Putin could be crowned tsar: “Nobody wanted Yeltsin to carry on forever, but everyone wants Putin to carry on forever.””

  44. Fuck I get offended that the piece of shit place calls its self Georgia. The Dixieland State of Georgia has been around legally longer then that gay land.

    And for you yankee fucktards its western Virginia not “West Virginia”. Of course in all honesty eastern part of Virginia might as well be called Cucked Virginia at this point.

  45. Max Payne says:

    It’s true. Israelis get all butt-hurt if you spell their country “Palestine”. I guess Israel is a fake and gay country.

    Even their cities:
    Yerushalayim vs al-Quds
    Natzrat vs al-Nasra
    etc. etc. etc.

    You know you have an inferiority complex when “Palestinian couscous” is threatening:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/virgin-atlantic-removes-palestinian-from-couscous-description/

    Now that I recall Tel Aviv is the most LGBT-friendly city in the world. Figures.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  46. melanf says:
    @Turgot

    Do you in Russia use the word “Rzeczpospolita” on Poland? The official name of Poland is “Rzeczpospolita Polska” which means the Commonwealth of Poland, not as it’s wrongly translated the Republic of Poland

    This name is used but rarely, in most cases to describe the “Poland” 16-18 centuries. But this name is understandable for Russians.

  47. melanf says:
    @Dacian Soros

    We then pushed for “Romania” for 80 years, with limited success. The country name has changed in educated circles, but almost any French, Spanish, Italian, or Russian speaker still call the individuals “ruman”.

    In Russia, a country pronounced as “Romania” will be perceived as a country of Gypsies. To justify the connection with ancient Rome (in Russian), it is necessary to use the word Rim/Rimlane. But this idea (Romania=Ancient Rome) will naturally cause laughter.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  48. @Cyrano

    « I don’t think you have the necessary qualifications ».

    We’ve met before?

    Where is it that I was

    « playing racist in chief »

    ?

    You are obviously an imbecile, to utter unwarrantex tatements as those.

    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Cyrano
  49. Anon 2 says:
    @LH

    Czechy, the Polish name for Czechia, feels perfectly neutral – there is
    nothing pejorative about it. Interestingly, the name ‘Bohemia’ is almost
    never used in Polish.

    Poland’s original name is Lechia, after Lech – the mythical 9th
    century founder of the country. It’s still used occasionally by sports
    teams, and the like, and is still present in some languages, e.g.,
    Lenkija in Lithuanian, Lengyelorszag in Hungarian or Lehistan in
    Ottoman Turkish.

    Amusingly, Poland is now being exposed to a lot of Czech (and
    perhaps vice versa) because of the popular bilingual singer Ewa Farna
    who was born into the Polish minority in Czechia, and seems to be
    equally comfortable (i.e., accentless) in both Czech and Polish. She
    went from a skinny teenager when she had her first hit in 2006 to
    her present zoftig (as Johnny Carson would say) self which figured
    prominently in her latest hit ” Boky jako skrin” (Hips like a cupboard).
    To the Polish ear it’s surprising how many Czech phrases in that song
    sound close or almost identical to Polish (esp. if the lyrics appear on
    the screen)

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  50. Anon 2 says:
    @Anon 2

    I should add, before others beat me to it, that some historians derive the names
    Lenkija or Lehistan (Poland in Lithuanian or Ottoman Turkish, respectively)
    from the presumptive tribe of Lendians. As usual in such matters, the etymology
    is rather controversial, and cannot be reduced to a few sentences. Interestingly,
    in the earliest Latin chronicles Polska (Poland) typically appears as Polonia which
    is the term used to this day in Spanish and basically in French (Pologne).
    In contemporary Polish, Polonia refers to the Polish diaspora (about 15 million
    Polonians living outside of Poland, 10 million in the U.S.).

    • Replies: @Guillaume Tell
    , @Beckow
  51. @Anon 2

    Interesting. Thank you for these two instructive comments.

  52. @Rattus Norwegius

    The Greeks, in all fairness, are correct. It’s certainly bizarre that the South Slavs inhabiting the region in between Serbia and Bulgaria (both of whom have at times ruled Macedonia and claimed the Macedonians as their own) came to strongly believe that they’re descendants of ancient Macedon.

    Well, it’s not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they’re descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren’t called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of “Russian” national identity.

  53. @DFH

    Much of the Slavic population of Hellas was resettled in Anatolia by the Byzantines. At the same time diaspora Greeks settled Hellas proper. Part of the Slavic population of Hellas would also be assimilated into the orthodox Greek speaking population.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Minor_Slavs
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sclaveni#Relationship_between_the_Slavs_in_Byzantium

    “They probably are mostly the descendants of ancient Macedon in a genetic sense. ”
    That is just a guess. The core of Slavic Macedonia is now Paeonia. In the past Macedonia used to have a large Macedonian Slavic population. That population has declined atleast proportionally in the past century. It’s numbers were not comparable to that of Paeonian Slavo-Macedonians. Therefore i find it mor likely that Paeonia is, and always has been the core of what were to become Slavo-Macedonians.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_Macedonia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_speakers_of_Greek_Macedonia

  54. Not directly related but Estonia’s attempt to rebrand itself as ‘Nordic’ is quite funny.

    I mean it’s fine. There may very well be some genuine historical/cultural link between Estonia and the Nordic group. What do I know.

    But some Estonians react sharply if you call their country ‘Baltic’, or heaven forbid, ‘ex-Soviet’.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  55. Serrice says: • Website
    @Matra

    Half my family comes from Belfast and I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone say ‘these isles.’ Catholics/nationalists just avoid the whole ‘British Isles’ thing entirely. To us there’s Ireland and there’s Britain. No ‘British Isles.’

  56. All nationalists have idiocies. Hungarian nationalists be like:

    “We wuz Huns! We wuz Turks! We wuz Sumerians! We wuz Japanese! Slovaks don’t exist! Trianon worse than Holohoax! Puskas!”

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  57. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Cyrano

    Southeastern Slavs are a mixed lot, as BTW is true with other Slavs. Some Bulgarians and Serbs look like they can pass for Turks, while others look quite Slavic.

  58. @reiner Tor

    Ferenc Puskás, the football player?

    By the way, how would you evaluate Horthy?

  59. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Hanoodtroll

    Linguistically and ethnically, Estonians are closest to Finns. Finns themselves aren’t as ethnically and linguistically close as the other Nordics are with each other.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  60. g2k says:

    Georgia complaing about being called gruzia and not Georgia is silly; the name conflicts with the us state and the British period in history. If they were to insist that everyone else called it Sakartvelo, now that would be fun.

    OT. They’ve just had an election over there where Saakashvili’s party was expecting to retake the presidency, but didn’t. If you follow Ben Aris’s twitter, you’d have seen Euro-atlanticist talking heads spitting feathers saying that Ivanashvilli was buying vites, which was probably true to some extent. There were a few street protests but not enough people gave a crap and they petered out. Anyway, they elected some woman who was promising to restore the monarchy. I suspect it’ll go the same way as Trump’s border wall, but if it doesn’t, it’ll be interesting to see as it would make them the first ex-commie state to do so.

    OOT: Pasinyan now has a super-supermajority in Armenia. The old republican party didn’t win a single seat. Nothing much seems to have come from this as yet though. I suspect the Yerevan 1% don’t really want to rock the boat and just wanted to be free from the humiliation of being ruled by karabakh hicks.

    • Replies: @Anon
  61. Blaming 30,000 Latvians for 80 years of utter policy failure in a country of 100+ million. Not homosexual at all.

    As for inferiority complex. It turns out that Sputnik/Pogrom daydreamer (I don’t know his name, the one who makes youtube videos and fancies himself cutting-edge of Russian nationalism) actually looks up to third rate intellectual charlatans, chodes, and fraudsters (Yudkowsky and LessWrong) as a source of ideological underpinnings for Russia’s future.

    Have fun being ruled by brood of early 90-ies St Petersburg city administration for the next 30 years. At least Ukrainians have a minor say in the future course of their country.

    The task of every mind is to comprehend reality accurately. But in Russia we are mostly interested in words and have little concern for reality. – Ivan Pavlov

  62. ‘…Ergo for Czechia low-peddling its transition from the Czech Republic. Czechia is simply more accurate. But they don’t mind if you beg to differ. Czechia is neither fake nor particularly gay, despite allowing LGBT partnerships…’

    Perhaps the criterion here is actually whether the state in question was part of Russia’s empire or part of someone else’s?

    I fail to see what is more ‘fake’ or ‘gay’ about Georgia or Lithuania than ‘Czechia.’ After all, the two former entities really do have histories as independent states in recent centuries; it’s debatable if any Czech state ever existed before 1918. On the other hand, it was Imperial Russia that absorbed Lithuania and Georgia; the Czechs were ruled by the Austrians.

  63. @Jaakko Raipala

    Well, it’s not really very different from a bunch of East Slavs coming to strongly believe that they’re descendants of Viking era Swedes.

    East Slavs aren’t called Russians in Finnish or languages of other neighboring peoples who met them before the construction of “Russian” national identity.

    Don’t most Russian nationalists (and maybe Ukrainian ones?) dislike the Normanist theory, though?

    • Replies: @Anonymous lurker
    , @Mikhail
  64. g2k says:

    In Northern Ireland, catholics and protestants make a big deal about the naming of (London) derry.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derry-Londonderry_name_dispute

  65. Unzerker says:

    Poland comes to mind.
    They are quite aggressively denying the German history of the formerly German parts of their country.

    So now we are in this weird situation that the famous German trade city of Danzig has to be called Gdansk, and that Breslau is now spelled Wrocław. It even has to be spelled with a weird letter that nobody has ever used before or knows how to pronounce.

    What is even stranger is that in my language, Dutch, we still use the German spelling for cities like Warschau and Krakau. Cities which have always been Polish. But Danzig, one of the most important trading ports for the Dutch, which was full of Dutch people and even has Dutch architecture, well that city suddenly has to be called by a different name after 800 years.

    Fake and Gay

  66. Seraphim says:
    @melanf

    The official name of the country is “România”, the people are “Români”.
    The trouble for foreigners is not so much the alternance between Ru- and Ro-, but the pronunciation of â/î (a vowel existing only in Rumanian and Slavic languages (Russian ы).
    Ru/Ro has a historical reason. The name that the people used was ‘Rumâni’, the country was ‘Țara Rumânească’, or ‘Rumânie’. The name ‘România’ was adopted after the unification of the former Principalities of Moldova and Muntenia (Valahia or Țara Românească)
    The French, would call the new state ‘Roumanie’ and the people ‘Roumains’, the Germans ‘Rumänien’ and the people ‘Rumänen’, the English ‘Rumania’, ‘Rumanians’, the Russians ‘Румыния’, ‘румынский’. It is how they all heard it.
    So, definitely the name was Rumâni, and had nothing to do with ‘Romani/Romi’ (invariably called Tzigani by the Rumanians and all European peoples).
    It is true that the adoption of the appellation Romania for the new state had something to do with the Roman Empire. But Greeks were also using the name ‘Romania’ for the ‘Byzantine’ Empire, because they never thought of themselves other than ‘Romani/Romei’ and the Empire ‘Roman’.

  67. Unzerker says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    As for 2: Ukraine is the amalgamation of the Russian possessions in the Region, put together for administrative reasons.

    The south and east of Ukraine together with Crimea used to be part of the Crimean Khanate and was conquered when Russia finally defeated the Tartars in the 18th century. These sparsely populated areas were subsequently colonized by settlers from the Russian Empire, including Ukrainians.

    So you have it backwards. The reason there are Ukrainians in the east and south is because the Ukrainians were part of the Russian Empire.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  68. @Unzerker

    Russia comes to mind too.

    Königsberg – Kaliningrad.
    What about Petrograd (Germanized) – St. Petersburg – Leningrad – St. Petersburg transition?

    Poland denying German history? Sure.

    Here’s Russian admiral of the Baltic Fleet (stationed in Königsberg) in the last few weeks:

    Igor Mukhametshin, the Vice Admiral in command of Russia’s Baltic Fleet, was filmed telling officers and ratings that the Enlightenment thinker was a “traitor” who wrote “incomprehensible books” and begged for university tenure.

    “Kant was a person who betrayed his country, who humiliated himself and begged on his knees for a teaching chair at the university. He wrote some incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read,” Admiral Mukhametshin said in a video obtained by local website Novy Kaliningrad and published on Youtube on Monday.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Seraphim
    , @Dmitry
  69. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Unzerker

    A good portion of Crimea and much of the rest modern day Russian territory were part of Rus, which also compromised contemporary Ukraine and Belarus. All this was evident before the slave trading Crimean Tatar Khanate came on the scene.

  70. Gerard2 says:
    @Philip Owen

    Mumbai. British Indians still pointedly refer to it as Bombay

    Arrogant. British South Africans are certainly not still referring to Gauteng as Transvaal

    It helps though that the African government is relatively sensible on these matters (as opposed to the imbeciles in Kiev)- as in English is the dominant, official language and it’s not as if places as Cape Town are going to Africanise their name

  71. @Hyperborean

    What’s the “Normanist theory”?

    I thought it was fairly well-established that the people that came to call themselves Russians were chiefly East Slavs who lived in the Peipus-Ilmen-Onega-Ladoga region, together with Ingrian and Karelian Finnic peoples etc, who were already present in the northern reaches of their soon-to-be realm. Then, Scandinavians started moving in as well, around 500 AD, and they all kind of merged a bit, and the name “Rus” supposedly popped up at that stage.

    That the later Rurikid dynasty was more “fresh”/recent Scandi is well-attested too, but the genetic makeup of the population at large remained chiefly Slav.

    Anyway, Jaakko had a good point in regards to this – the Finnish word for Russia/Russian is venäjä-, cognate with the ancient Germanic “wends”, i.e. the Slavs that lived along the southern Baltic coasts waaaaaay back. When they moved northeast and onward, they eventually ran into Finnic tribes, and therefore “venäjä” still lives on in Finnish and Estonian (vene) etc.

    As regards to Ukraine and them claiming to be the “real Russia” due to the “Kievan Rus”, that’s also fairly straightforwardly false in my eyes. By the time the Rus decided to expand southward and kick out the Khazars and God knows who else who inhabited the Kiev region, the old school Russian lands up north had been around for quite a while, centering on Novgorod.

    Anyway, I’ll readily admit I’m out of my element when it comes to these things, but still I fail to see what part of this particular history is debatable enough as to have spawned competing “theories.”

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Lars Porsena
  72. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Hyperborean

    This matter is argued in degrees. There was a Viking influence in Rus, that included areas in modern day Russia and Ukraine. As was true with the Vikings who settled elsewhere, they were a minority in Rus, which gradually merged with the majority population.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  73. @Hyperborean

    No. Just pointing out obvious blind spots.

    I got St. Petersburg naming order wrong thought.

    Sankt-Peterburg -> Petrograd-> Leningrad -> Sankt-Peterburg

    This transition (Karlin will probably blame Jews and Latvians for it) seems to me 1000x more queer than Ukrainians dropping -petrovsk from Dnipro.

  74. @Anonymous lurker

    Then, Scandinavians started moving in as well, around 500 AD, and they all kind of merged a bit, and the name “Rus” supposedly popped up at that stage.

    That the later Rurikid dynasty was more “fresh”/recent Scandi is well-attested too, but the genetic makeup of the population at large remained chiefly Slav.

    I think this is basically the Normanist theory. The debate seems mainly to center on whether and to what extent the aristocracy was Germanic.

    Of course, like with so many things, this is probably not really what people are actually arguing about.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  75. Gerard2 says:

    Pakistan…a fake but definitely not gay country.

  76. @Mikhail

    There was a Viking influence in Rus, that included areas in modern day Russia and Ukraine.

    The influence went both ways. For example, Swedish has borrowed the words ‘tolk’ and ‘torg’ from Slavic — translation and trade, respectively. Norse sagas mention ‘poluta’, which is borrowed from the Slavic word that denotes a medieval form of taxation. The borrowings imply civilization (or at least the monetary parts of it) went the other way, from Slavs to Norse.

  77. All this shit is so stupid…

  78. Speaking of fake and gay countries, I think we need to discuss the emerging conflict between Russia and Belarus. Kremlin is phasing out oil subsidies for Belarus, and Lukashenka is going nuts about it.

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.

  79. @Felix Keverich

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.

    Long-term perspective, of course it will. All these fake ex-Soviet non-countries were created to be an anti-Russian nuisance in the first place. It’s literally the only reason they exist.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  80. dearieme says:
    @anon

    It’s a result, I suspect, of schoolteacher propaganda. I remember my father’s contempt for what he called Nineteenth Century Schoolteacher Nationalism.

    I don’t know any Scots who give a hoot about “Scotch” but no doubt some exist. Prats!

    • Replies: @anon
  81. @anonymous coward

    Meanwhile:

    Have to agree with Ukrainian propaganda account here. The Kremlin is either delusional, or too embarrassed to admit its epic failure in the Ukraine.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @reiner Tor
    , @Gerard2
  82. Gerard2 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Speaking of fake and gay countries, I think we need to discuss the emerging conflict between Russia and Belarus. Kremlin is phasing out oil subsidies for Belarus, and Lukashenka is going nuts about it.

    Growing more and more convinced, that Belarus will go the way of the Ukraine.

    No chance at all. There have been about 50 million disputes between Russia and Belarus…over pork, milk products, gas, defense…nothing dramatic….everything will remain the same.
    Nothing wrong with Belarus making itself visa-free to EU countries, and importantly Belarus economically is progressing fine….with it’s growth far exceeding Ukraine’s low,fake and gay growth

  83. @Anarcho-Supremacist

    Most West Virginians proudly wave the Confederate flags AND call their state West Virginia

    I think I’ll side with this guy over you

    • Replies: @DFH
  84. melanf says:
    @Felix Keverich

    denial over the collapse of Russian influence in Ukraine thanks to Putin’s war:

    Influence could not collapsed, because there was no influence.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  85. @Blindspots of galactic proportions

    Ukrainians have as much say in their country as I do at the CIA. Get lost, troll.

  86. @Felix Keverich

    Without the DLNR Ukraine could actually join NATO. As long as it has a territorial dispute, it cannot.

    So that’s why the Kremlin is not interested in peace.

  87. Epigon says:
    @Hyperborean

    The Baltic Sea was not Scandi Sea from 9th to 12th century. Stockholm was burnt to the ground as late as 13th century by Osselians.
    Slavs and Balts were top dogs – the Danes suffered greatly at the hands of Wends, for example Roskilde and Konungahela.
    Mare Rugianorum, after all.
    Primary sources indicate that the Jomsvikings were majority Slavs and shed a lot of light on that period, authors like Adam of Bremen and Saxo Grammaticus.
    What amuses me most is that modern history still insists that Rani/Rujani from Rugia island are not the same as Rugii from older times. Or that Vandals, Venedi and Wends are not the same thing.
    But I guess that admitting even a little crack would soon bring down the whole nonsense of “East Germanic” tribes like Lugii vanishing at the same time Slavs exploding in those same areas during “migration period”.

    Normanist theory and practically the entire Viking narrative is a joke when archeology is taken into account. During the period of Rus’ founding, Sweden was hopelessly outclassed in (man)power by both Danes and Slavs+Balts. Also, the description of “Rus” “Swedes” is in stark contrast to descriptions of Danes and Norwegians during the same period.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @AP
  88. @melanf

    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered “little brother” of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc…

    I’m old enough to remember when Russian political leaders could visit Kiev without risking arrest or assasination. 🙂

  89. You are forgetting the tens of millions of Indians who moved from Bombay to Mumbai (and not one sent me a change of address card)

    Oddly enough, both the Indians moving from Bombay and the Chinese moving from Peking left their ducks behind.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Peking%20duck
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Bombay%20duck

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  90. @reiner Tor

    Kremlin is not interested in peace.

    If “peace” means NATO troops and American nuclear missiles stationed near Kharkov, then who the fuck needs this peace? lol

    Everybody wants peace, but they want it on their terms. Though you have a point: Ukrainians need peace and normal relations with Russia a lot more, then Russia does.

    Common sense suggests that Ukrainians should be making moves to appease Russia, to buy peace for their poor country, yet the opposite is happening.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  91. @Bill Jones

    Oddly enough, both the Indians moving from Bombay and the Chinese moving from Peking left their ducks behind.

    Chinese are not too bothered by it. Peking University (part of China’s ‘Ivy League’) still uses the old spelling.

  92. DFH says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Most West Virginians proudly wave the Confederate flags

    Isn’t that strange since the defining feature of their existence was not being in the Confederacy?

  93. @Epigon

    I won’t debate this as I don’t particularly care about the topic either way, I am just saying that is what the people who write books and essays argue about.

  94. Giuseppe says:

    For instance, precisely nobody in The Netherlands – to the best of my knowledge – cares in the least about having an article appended to their name in English…

    This has always annoyed me. Ukrainians speak a language without articles and have no business telling people who speak English where to put an article. Lots of countries use articles in front of their name. In Hebrew, it is הגליל, “the Galilee,” a prosaic designation of an area. The British used to have a poetic name for Argentina, “the Argentine” and “the Ukraine” is a name meaning something like the borderlands or “the Marches” because the Slavic root is край meaning edge or border. In some senses it is also poetic, at least in English, and to me hearkens back to the history of the area when it was a free-for-all frontier. When English speakers say “Ukraine” it always seems to me like they are speaking in the quintessential Slavic accent without articles, e.g., “I put book on table,” or “must kill moose and squirrel.” Understandable yes, but silly sounding.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  95. @Felix Keverich

    That’s not “influence”, that’s Stockholm Syndrome and giving in to terrorist demands.

    The so-called “Ukraine” shouldn’t exist at all. Russian political leaders visiting Kiev and pretending it is a real country is a farce and a travesty.

    • Agree: Melotte 22
  96. @Jaakko Raipala

    The Finnish word for Sweden is ‘ruotsi’ which resembles the name of Russia in Finnish.

  97. Gerard2 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Have to agree with Ukrainian propaganda account here. The Kremlin is either delusional, or too embarrassed to admit its epic failure in the Ukraine.

    Utter defeatist garbage. Ukraine is as Russian as ever, and with zero hope of joining the EU. Economy non-existant, mass emigration, much increased crime and health and infrastructure problems now compared to before the coup

    Russia is a million times more democratic than Ukraine and since the maidan “revolution”..this disparatity has only rapidly increased, on all business, health and economic measure Russia is far exceeding Ukraine after Maidan.

    Did you also read the stat where the prison population of Russia has gone down from 600000 in 2013 to 480000 now? Or the murder rate is now 8/1000000 ( still a long way to go to European levels , but in a few of the main cities it is at European levels, and it is not too long ago that it was 30 per 100k ( be under no illusion that the Yeltsin era they criminally underestimated the already sky-high murder rates)

    If the US/EU chooses to let a country’s elites f**k itself up as part of an anti-Russian project, that’s not Russia’s fault.

    Ukraine is solely viewed and used by the west as an “anti-Russia” nothing else….it’s entire future in all spheres will rest now more on Russia then even before

    ….and all their main music groups will be in Russia over the New Year series of concerts , desperate to earn from their biggest fan base

  98. melanf says:
    @Felix Keverich

    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered “little brother” of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc…

    This all remained in the past in 1991. Ukraine’s policy has not changed at all since then.

  99. DFH says:
    @Turgot

    What other basis for a country is there?

    • Replies: @Turgot
  100. Gerard2 says:
    @Felix Keverich

    If it makes you feel any better, we can pretend that the Ukraine was never considered “little brother” of Russia. Also, never used Russian language, never belonged to Moscow church, etc…

    I’m old enough to remember when Russian political leaders could visit Kiev without risking arrest or assasination.

    Ok, fair points..but despite mass attempts and lots of money and legislation thrown to undermime it….the Russian language is still going strong there, albeit with Ukrainian now slightly more widespread, the Church issue has a long way to go and may undermime Ukrop authorities more then help it

    On the little brother issue………how can this be changed when the fundamentals of most families in both countries having relatives from the other? Those things are always much stronger then some US-puppet state controlled authorities actions . We had the ridiculous case now where the Russian chief at Interpol is a “Ukrainian” educated in Kiev, with a brother who works for……..the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry!
    We could easily be in a situation where the next President of Russia or PM is an “Ukrainian”….and the next (well, not for the elections next year but after that) President of Ukraine is a Russian ( though they will first have to get out the jewish Pres/PM dupoly currently at the top in Kiev..and then after that , any Gruzians)

  101. sean42 says:

    All you bickering morons and pieces of shit deserve to be trapped in a room and be gassed/suffocated to death or be blown up. How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe. In fact, if I did not know better, I suspect Karlin is an agent paid for by the West precisely to stir things up and promote discord among Euro nationalists with posts like these. Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader and others in his last crap stirring thread about the encounter between the Ukrainian and the Russian navy in the Kerch strait in this blog.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @German_reader
  102. neutral says:

    I have seen something similar for Korea where some want to rename it to “Corea”, because of some “legacy of colonialism” type arguments. Then there are plenty of black nationalist types that want to rename a whole bunch of things. This is just typical hard left behaviour in trying to remove the past.

  103. Meh, czechia is a pretty fake gay name. The website you linked to, besides trying to factsplain away their opinions like a bunch of journalist majors, so much as says it does not matter if any Czechs support it or whether any English-speaking support it or whether anyone uses it because a bunch of international lawyers have spoken.

    Czeska would sound ok but czechia sounds like the lyrics to a chia pet commercial.

    For shame chiapetland. Even Czechland would have been better than checkcheckchia.

  104. @DFH

    Yes, it’s strange!

    However, it makes sense when you think about it.

    There was not just one South, but many Souths.

    Western Virginia was always far more populist than Tidewater Virginia. In the 1830s, there was a constitutional debate in Virginia, with the westerners calling for voting rights based less on slavery. The Shenandoah and upper Piedmont counties were also more populist, and less plantation-based, but still had lots of small slaveholders.

    West Virginia’s secession from Virginia would never have happened if the Ohio River counties and other mountainous areas had not long felt disenfranchised in Richmond.

    All this to say, the Confederate flag is a symbol of populism these days, so people whose ancestors fought in the Union armies now wave it. I live near Gettysburg, of all places, and virtually all people here come from families that fought in the Union army. But there are Confederate flags all over the rural North these days. Again, it’s become a symbol of general white populism.

    Also, keep in mind that much of what is now West Virginia voted for secession from the Union in 1861. Only the Ohio River counties, whose economy was more tied in with the Midwest, were staunchly pro-Union at that time. Again, even those areas of West Virginia that fought with Robert E. Lee still were different from the Virginia east of the Allegheny Front.

  105. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Although I will note that the map I’ve posted has some contextual problems

    For one thing, the Civil War career record of George H. Thomas – from plantation country southside Virginia – shows that many of those “100%” counties just had Unionists not bothering to vote.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  106. I’d say it’s no so much cargo cult as severe inferiority complex. Countries with real achievements don’t have that, whereas countries that never had anything to write home about are obsessed. This obsession tells you more about a country than anything else.

  107. nationalists should be proud when foreign countries have their own names for their country or cities. That means the country matters for the other country. E.g. a random third-tier Indian city will be names by its correct name all over the world, because it doesn’t matter.

  108. @Felix Keverich

    Ukrainians need peace and normal relations with Russia a lot more then Russia does.

    You hit the nail on the head. Ukies like to say that Russia lost Ukraine. Thing is, when someone cuts off your hand, you sure lost something, but isn’t the loss for your hand much greater than for you? But Ukies would never acknowledge the reality, as it is too unflattering for their pipe dream.

  109. @DFH

    I think it’s strange, but they don’t. The Confederate flag has expanded from becoming merely a Confederate symbol to being a “country” (or redneck) symbol.

    I’ve seen snowmobiles up here with Confederate flags for instance. There’s a house a few blocks away which flies and American flag, a Confederate flag, and a Green Bay Packers (American football team) flag.

    Three flags over Wisconsin…

  110. @reiner Tor

    If NATO wants to commit suicide, it should accept Ukraine. LDNR is not relevant here, what matters is the state of Ukraine. It could have been a country, alas. If it were, it wouldn’t need any NATO. But its “leaders” (all of them since 1991; Porky is a thief first and foremost, but so were Kravchuk, Kuchma, Yushchenko, and Yanukovich) cared about lining their pockets and did not give a hoot about the country. Hence we have what we have.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  111. Dmitry says:

    I sometimes watched some programs of channels like “Belarus 1”

    I thought sometimes nationalism is not subtly promoted in Belarus in their television (surprisingly obsession talking about their special personality, separateness, etc).

    But obviously this situation is not quite like the intensity that Ukrainian nationalism has been promoted in Ukraine, even from the 1990s.

  112. @Vishnugupta

    There is also a significant campaign to re-name cities with muslim names. For instance, Allahabad to Prayagraj/Prayag. This was recently done in UP (now controlled by Yogi Adityanath, a Hindu nationalist monk which is its chief minister).

    There are similar suggestions for many cities in North India and even some in the southern parts, such as Hyderabad, though the latter is likely not happening since the ruling party is a secular left-of-center one. Any city with -bad at the end, has muslim/foreign roots.

    We often underestimate just how thoroughly dominated India was for the last 1000 years by foreigners. Even the word Hindu itself is a foreign word from the muslim foreign rulers. ‘Indian’ meals such as biryani also have foreign muslim roots., including the word itself.

    I personally support this campaign, but if we were to go by AK’s tongue-in-cheek smear of any country obsessed with re-naming then India would by any standard be seen as deeply insecure and “fake” since so much of its names and language has been imposed from the outside for almost a thousand years, to the extent you can barely ask what is even authentically ‘Indian’ anymore.

    But I don’t really see it as such. The Czech language was almost wiped out 200 years ago, at least in the major cities in Czechia. Czech was relegated to being a pastoral language in the countryside with people seriously predicting its eradication within a realistic timehorizon. However, there was a conscious effort to revive it. Today, many who are not knowledgable about history would be shocked to hear that German was a majority language in Prague, Brno and other major cities not too long ago. This is a testament to the revival movements success, as well as the re-awakened national spirit of the Czech people. I don’t see why this shouldn’t be seen as a template for Hindus to rid themselves of this historical baggage in their own country.

    I certainly hope that India purges as much of the foreign influence as possible and re-asserts itself. I would also change India to Bharat even in English. Hindustan is sometimes used in Hindi (both of those words are also imported/have their roots from foreign muslim rulers). Today, Hindi is often peppered with a lot of English phrases. There ought to be a general movement in Bharat today to clean up the language and root it in the local population and its accordant customs and traditions. Language is power.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Vishnugupta
  113. @Giuseppe

    ‘…When English speakers say “Ukraine” it always seems to me like they are speaking in the quintessential Slavic accent without articles, e.g., “I put book on table,” or “must kill moose and squirrel.” …’

    Exactly. In English, the expression is ‘the Ukraine.’ The usage makes no comment on the political status of the area in question.

    • Replies: @Syagrius
  114. @Anonymous lurker

    There are theories (I happen to think it is a good one) that these old terms are political, not ethnic. Much like the horde armies from the east were comprised of all sorts of ethnic tribes banded together under some great leader. The idea would be that originally, a group like the Rus were not a tribe but an alliance or a gang, like the bloods or the crips or the latin kings. So they would have had recruits or members (nobles) from different ethnic clans, slavic, baltic, uralic, and norse, and whatever else was around.

    I have seen someone in comments on this website link to a translation of what supposed to be one of the oldest Old Church Slavonic documents, it was a long time ago, but I do remember that it included a list of attendees to some Kievan Rus thing, and the names listed included noticeably slavic, germanic and (I would guess) Finnish names already in their oldest texts.

    Sort of like the contemporary Holy Roman Empire of Charlemagne neighboring them, it was not based around an ethnic type or single culture but an international military/political order. The HRE under Charlemagne originally included all the French, benelux lowlanders, and northern Italians in addition to the Germans, and one of the original 5 elector states that voted, best 3 out of 5, for the holy roman emporer was a slavic state that later named itself after a brand of bananas.

  115. DFH says:
    @Thulean Friend

    Language is power.

    Hence the ongoing French and Greek domination of Britain

  116. songbird says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I think the split really shows how slavery was geo-deterministic, which is really funny given how it is presented as a moral conflict – good vs. evil.

    To my mind, that is really one of the core questions of the moment: how much will maps determine going forward? How much does it matter that Europe is near Africa? That Germany is the center of Europe? Etc.

  117. utu says:
    @sean42

    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader

    Did he erase it? I remember that GR complained at another blog but then he returned for a brief period.

    You are correct that AK likes the politic of resentment however I think that a resentment is a main staple for Russians in the last few decades. Resentment is a loser’s diet. In the past I thought Russian were more insightful and they knew what’s up but apparently I overestimated them because they indeed seem to be hurt upon the awful discovery that are not being universally loved. For AK it might be a simple calculation of maximizing traffic on his blog.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  118. @Thorfinnsson

    I’ve seen mexicans flying confederate flags in front of their house in Chicago in mexican neighborhoods. No idea why but it made me smirk.

    • Replies: @songbird
  119. @utu

    You seem to be a decade or two behind the times. After the disaster of 1990-s (which was called “democracy” in Western MSM) most Russians feel that if someone is loved by the West, that someone is highly suspicious. Unlike some nations we know, the majority in Russia have learned their lesson and won’t be fooled again.

    • Replies: @utu
  120. songbird says:
    @Lars Porsena

    The Mexican flag is kind of odd because it is like a seal. There is a lot of history behind the symbology, but it probably evokes government more than most flags.

    I think that was one of the reasons the Left went after the Confederate flag. They had successfully subverted the American flag and desired to destroy anything that might compete with it.

  121. @sean42

    Especially since Karlin deliberately deleted complaints of these nature made by German Reader

    I don’t remember AK deleting any of my comments (iirc he deleted some by an “anonymous” who called him “fat Karlin”, but that’s justified imo).

    How does this useless, stupid, pointless, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin bickering exactly solve the problem of liberal cultural corruption, or the flood of non-whites flooding into Europe.

    Karlin’s primarily a Russian nationalist, and iirc he’s stated in the past that he doesn’t care that much about the demographic transformation of western Europe…and why should he? Maybe the resulting decline and destabilization of those countries (which are mostly hostile to Russia anyway) might even be advantageous to Russia (note: this doesn’t mean I believe in those retarded conspiracy theories of the sort “Putin is behind the refugee crisis).
    Net nationalists often have this naive idea that there is some kind of nationalist international of the white race in which we’re all brothers…that’s a naive illusion imo.
    But I do wonder what audience AK has in mind with resentful anti-Ukrainian pieces like this (and it’s not like it’s anything new, he’s made exactly the same point many times before). Apart from the various tribalistic Ukrainians and Russians who have ended up in America, but cling tenaciously to their old loyalties, why should anybody commenting on a site like Unz review care about this?

    • Replies: @g2k
    , @Dmitry
    , @Mr. Hack
  122. Turgot says:
    @DFH

    In my view it’s largely a test of time and having deep historical roots. Lithuania has less political historical roots than the USA. And there also has to be some kind of spontaneity in creating a country instead of artificially creating it. USA is another good examlld

  123. Well, to begin with, I’ll note that nations are something that exist in people’s heads. No people, no nations. Conversely, if a lot of people think the Ukraine is a real nation, it becomes a real nation. Here I’m reminded of the Israel-Palestine dispute. Some Zionists will argue that there never was a Palestinian people. That may or may not be true; but it’s not terribly relevant. There is a Palestinian people now; the Zionists created them with their actions.

    That said, it’s odd that this piece led off with Georgia as an example of a ‘fake and gay’ nation. Georgia was an independent kingdom — and one with a long history — as recently as the eighteenth century. It’s very much a real nation.

    Poland indubitably is as well. Certainly Russia is. Armenia would be. Lithuania, having a long and very distinct existence in the Middle Ages and there very definitely being Lithuanians to boot, seems to me to qualify. Latvia, Estonia, the Ukraine, Finland, and the Czechs all seem like reasonable candidates for nationhood to me. There was little independent political existence before the twentieth century, but each region has a unique history and a people who at least feel themselves to be unique.

    ‘Belarus,’ on the other hand, is pretty ‘gay.’ That never was a state, and I’m not aware of any abortive nationalist gropings along the lines of those that the Ukraine, say, displayed in both World Wars. Are there ‘Belarussians’? Would they riot and take to the woods and form armed bands if Russia just annexed the state outright?

    Now, for fun, we can consider the legitimacy of states that most definitely very much were but thanks to the miracle of modern population replacement now very much aren’t: Prussia, the Crimean Khanate. Neither was even a little ‘gay’ but both are most certainly gone.

    Conversely, we have exciting modern frissons that rest on either fantasy or nothing at all. Modern Greece incorporates a great deal of continental hinterland that was all kinds of things but certainly not anyone related to the ancient Greeks; the ‘Greeks’ were actually more of a maritime people, spread around seacoasts all around the Aegean and even further afield but rarely extending themselves very far inland. Indeed, in World War Two Greek guerillas often found themselves in the embarassing position of losing out to Tito’s Partisans in northern Greece because the peasantry spoke Slavic dialects rather than Greek. No doubt that’s been rectified, but the fact remains; modern Greece is largely an invention; most Greeks think of themselves as Greeks because they’ve been told they’re Greeks. The ancient Greeks are long gone, others have indeed moved or been moved into their place, and the lands they lived in don’t even match up with modern Greece particularly well in the first place. An early martyr appropriated to the cause of Greek independence apparently wasn’t even aware of that identity; as the Ottomans led him to be executed he cried out ‘a Romios I was born and a Romios I will die.’.

    Ahem. No, no. Greek. You’re Greek. That clear?

    Then there’s ‘Rumania.’ There were various historical states and regions that were incorporated at one time or another into the modern Rumanian state: Wallachia, Bessarabia, Moldovia, Transsylvania, Dobrudja are all names I’m familiar with. But as far as I know, there was no ‘Rumania’ or even a ‘Romania’ until the retreat of the Ottoman Empire in the middle of the nineteenth century. Rumanians themselves are a reality, but their state is of decidedly recent — and hence ‘gay’ — provenance. It’s difficult to see why Romania should be regarded as authentic if the Ukraine isn’t. Perhaps because Russia never absorbed it outright?

    So we’ve got all sorts of degrees and conditions of national reality. However, the states that have been singled out in this article as artificial don’t seem to me to be particularly egregious offenders in this respect. Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don’t strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

  124. g2k says:
    @German_reader

    From a purely self-centred, western European point of view (or at least, from what I can tell, your interpretation of it) it, would be considerably better for Ukraine to be absorbed by Russia than become a Poland/baltics 2. Consider what the consequences of its euro integration would be: at the lower end, there would be tens of millions of impoverished, but educated and competent workers with unfettered access to the labor markets of the better-off EU countries, at the elite level, there would be yet another ulta-altaltisict, rightwing block, unconditionally backing up Merkel, or whoever succeedes her (AKK looks like some hideous Hannah Gadsby Merkel hybrid) . Sometimes the enemy of your enemy really is your friend.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  125. Beckow says:
    @Anon 2

    Is it generally assumed in Poland that that the term ‘Polska’ is a derivative of ‘pole’=field?

    In other words, the field-people or farmers. I have assumed that is the case and then I run into a linguist who claims that it is an ancient religious term. But there were also ‘Polyane’ in the area of today’s Ukraine.

    The term ‘Cech’ also has few derivations, one I like is the ‘highlander‘ (the original Czech tribe home base were the highlands immediately west of Prague). But there are a few other etymologies, incl. derived from ‘singers or travelling entertainers’. The official one is of course the patriarch ‘Cech’, but that begs the question what was his name based on. Bohemia only refers to the western 2/3 of Czechia (the east is Moravia and has always been called that).

    The word Bohemia has the same root as Bayern (Bavaria). Based on that the hapless Vaclav Havel once claimed to Western visitors that Czechs were actually ‘Celts’…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @LH
  126. DFH says:
    @Colin Wright

    I’ll note that nations are something that exist in people’s heads

    That is not true. It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @reiner Tor
  127. @g2k

    I’ve always been opposed to EU or NATO accession for Ukraine, it’s an insane idea imo, bound to create severe conflict with Russia (and provide no benefit to genuine German interests).
    I don’t see the point though in endlessly going on about “fake and gay nations” (unless it’s AK’s goal to confirm fears about great Russian chauvinism and its imperialist baggage).

    • Replies: @g2k
  128. @DFH

    It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.

    If there’s no awareness of belonging to a common group (defined by descent, culture, language etc.) with a shared past and future, how can there be a nation? What would keep such a group from simply dissolving when it has no awareness of its own identity?

  129. Pericles says:
    @Mikhail

    Finns themselves aren’t as ethnically and linguistically close as the other Nordics are with each other.

    Except for the Swedish-speaking Finn population, not at all close. It is sort of possible as a Swedish-speaker to figure out Norwegian, Danish and even Icelandic (admittedly only with some luck) but Finnish is entirely different.

    • Replies: @Boswald Bollocksworth
  130. @DFH

    It is possible under any reasonable conception of a nation for a nation to exist without anyone recognising its existence.

    How? A group might speak a distinct dialect and be genetically different from the rest (Occitans?), but if they believe themselves to be part of another nation (“French”), they will not be a separate nation. (So, no Occitanian Nation, at least not for the moment.)

    • Replies: @DFH
  131. Dmitry says:
    @German_reader

    (note: this doesn’t mean I believe in those retarded conspiracy theories of the sort “Putin is behind the refugee crisis).

    Lol such conspiracy theories, will be directly contradicted by the reality that Putin and his friends and employees put property and/or children in Western Europe.

    Putin’s family has some nice property in France, for example – I doubt he wants the Camp of Saints to climb over the fences of his children’s French seaside mansion.

    their old loyalties, why should anybody commenting on a site like Unz review care about this?

    Isn’t it Karlin’s job to report this topic for his overseas readers (to put it in the English-speaking world), which are not all insular American/rednecks that climbed over the fence from other parts of Unz review?

    However, Karlin has not reported 1% of this topic, about how sensitive Ukrainians are.

    From Karlin’s discussion, I can imagine international readers probably still have no idea how radical, angry and crazy, many Ukrainian “patriots” are if you talk to them about language topics.

    So maybe he could have focused more singularly on the topic, but then, I don’t think he wants to persuade anyone about this, or write such focused things.

  132. g2k says:
    @German_reader

    The problem is that EU/NATO accession for Ukraine, and the backlash, that is driving this. The Kremlin doesn’t care when Russians are treated like dirt in Central Asia and the Caucasus. Whether someone objectively considers Russia to be expansionist/chauvinist or not is besides the point when it’s already consensus amongst anyone who matters in any eu state that matters that they are and policy is made accordingly.

  133. Mr. Hack says:
    @Beckow

    But there were also ‘Polyane’ in the area of today’s Ukraine.

    Not only were there Polyane within Ukraine (Central and Dniepr region), but they were the largest of the Slavic tribes that were part of the mix out of which the later Ruthenians and Ukrainians cam from. The great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky felt that Ukrainian history could indeed be interpreted as beginning with the inclusion of just this Slavic tribe within modern Ukrainian territory. Were they related to the Polyani of Poland? Nobody knows for sure, but I think that it’s quite possible.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @AP
    , @Gerard2
  134. Mr. Hack says:
    @German_reader

    But I do wonder what audience AK has in mind with resentful anti-Ukrainian pieces like this (and it’s not like it’s anything new, he’s made exactly the same point many times before)…I don’t see the point though in endlessly going on about “fake and gay nations” (unless it’s AK’s goal to confirm fears about great Russian chauvinism and its imperialist baggage).

    It’s refreshing to see that somebody who’s not a part of a ‘tribalistic Ukrainian’ formation feels this way about Karlin’s incessant butthurt pronunciations about Ukraine and Ukrainians. Well, can you really expect any more from a Russian chauvinist?

  135. Cyrano says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Putin once said about EU-Ukraine relationship: “It’s a dating that will never result in a marriage”. I don’t think Ukraine is interested in marriage, because they already had one – to Russia.

    OK, Russia can be tough on Ukraine, they might slap them around once in a while, but that’s because they love them and they don’t want them to get out of order.

    But Ukraine wants to explore the joys of “democracy” – multiple partners with whom she can whore around. And her western partners will gladly pimp her around for some fun. One day Ukraine will be broke, her youth spent and nowhere to go. They will return to Russia begging for mercy and they will resume their traditional role – being a burden to Russia.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  136. Aixa says:
    @Unzerker

    Well, official website of city of Gdańsk calls the city in German: Danzig.
    But in English Gdansk

    Of course Unzerker was ignorant enough not to look at official website of the city.
    Instead he created some scary conspiracy theory.

    https://www.gdansk.pl/de/touristisch/touristeninformation,a,3028

    Occam’s razor is that most foreigners (including journalists) do not know what Breslau / Danzig is and are unable to connect with cities Wroclaw and Gdansk in Poland.

    And when they visit Poland and Gdansk, they book flight directly to Gdansk Airport. And look for rooms in Gdansk’s hotels. As most airlines do not tranlsate names of some local cities into dozens of languages .
    It is much simpler to use local official spelling.

    This is the same phenomenon as Brunswick becoming Braunschweig.
    These cities became too irrelevant to have their own name in other languages.
    Then people start using local names, as you can’t remeber millions of cities and their names.

    Germans still use Danzig and Breslau becasue these cities are relevant enough for them to have easy spelling.

    But generally only Warsaw and Cracow stayed important enough to have and international name.

  137. anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    Oh, they exist alright. “That’s the drink, not the people!”, I have heard many times.

    Reading the wikipedia article – clearly written by one of those 19th c. schoolmarms – I think your father might have been on to something:

    …in 1872 the Scottish school system was initially placed under a “Scotch Education Department” with offices in London. In 1918, as a result of objections from within Scotland, the department was moved to Edinburgh and renamed the Scottish Education Department.

    Sounds like a confection of proto-SJW teachers who needed to justify their dislike of their English superiors. Accusing them of being tone-deaf and offensive probably helped get the office moved back up north. The very next paragraph:

    John Kenneth Galbraith in his book The Scotch… documents how the descendants of 19th century pioneers from Scotlandaffectionately referred to themselves as Scotch.

    Even granting that the Scottish were sincere, that’s a remarkably short turnaround from “perfectly normal” to “deeply offensive”. “Fake”, and, of course, “gay”.

  138. @Cyrano

    If the current trends in Russian popular opinion continue, Ukraine might come back begging, but won’t get anything. Russians came to resent parasites of all stripes, particularly the vermin claiming “brotherhood”.

    So-called West had only one use for Ukraine: as a battering ram against Russia. Now that most real rulers of the West realized just how rotten that would-be ram is, the West is losing interest. Have you noticed that mentioning Ukraine in Western MSM became rare? Mentioning Ukraine, along with mentioning Kosovo, Darfur, or South Sudan, is now considered bad form in polite society, like farting in church.

  139. Cyrano says:
    @Guillaume Tell

    Racial differences among the Slavs are none of your business, as long as your western societies remain homo-genous. Because, remember – you are all equal.

  140. DFH says:
    @reiner Tor

    They might possess some sort of group allegiance or consciousness of difference with other groups without actually having the fully fledged idea of a nation (like some non-historic nations in Eastern Europe before the 19th century).

  141. @Felix Keverich

    Belarus is too small and isolated to survive on its own. Lukashenka will be brought down to hill in due time.

    • Replies: @DFH
  142. @songbird

    It’s a bit of both.

    For either side in the Civil War, their perception of slavery was that it was either

    1) A moral good and a geo-specific good
    2) A moral bad and a geo-specific bad
    3) A moral bad but a geo-specific good

  143. @Thorfinnsson

    Indeed.

    I would never fly the Confederate flag, not for the usual SJW reasons, but because, unlike most SJWs, I’ve read the various works by Confederate and Unionist writers and find the latter marginally preferable.

    You mention Wisconsin. The average Badger in 1861-65 had racial beliefs similar to Southerners, once he actually met blacks. Anti-slavery sentiment and “racism” were, of course, seen as complimentary to Republicans, not contradictory. As late as 1862, Lincoln himself met with a society of black American civic leaders who had formed an idea of volunteering their position and talents to move ex-slaves back to Africa. Although there were many outright abolitionists and even some Transcendalists, the mainstream position of the average Union soldier marching through Georgia and seeing blacks would be, “Free the slaves – send ’em all back to Africa.”

  144. LondonBob says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Thomas wanted to fight for the South but was passed over when they were handing out commands, Confederates missed a trick as he is probably the most underrated general of the war.

  145. @Colin Wright

    “Tranquillo Andronico writes in 1534 that Valachi “now call themselves Romans”. In 1532, Francesco della Valle accompanying Governor Aloisio Gritti to Transylvania, Walachia and Moldavia notes that “they call themselves in their language Romanians (Romei)”. Reporting his mission in Transylvania, the Neapolitan Jesuit Ferrante Capeci writes around 1575 that the inhabitants of those Provinces call themselves “romanesci”. Pierre Lescalopier, relating his voyage from Venice to Constantinople, notes in 1574 that those inhabiting Walachia, Moldavia and the most part of Transylvania say to be descendants of the Romans, calling their language “romanechte”. The learned Lutheran preacher and first Transylvanian Saxon historiograph Johann Lebel attests in 1542 that common Romanians call themselves “Romuini”. The Polish Humanist Stanislaus Orichovius notes as late as 1554 that “these left behind Dacians in their own language are called Romini, after the Romans” The Dalmatian Antonius Verantio, who later would become viceroy of Habsburg Hungary, also states in 1570 that “When they ask somebody whether they can speak Wallachian, they say: do you speak Roman? and whether one is Wallachian they say: are you Roman?”“ (Wikipedia)

    The country is, indeed, somewhat made up, since Stalin-Roosevelt-Churchill transferred parts of it PLUS two million Romanians to “Moldova” and “the Ukraine”, and awarded us the Har-Cov exclave.

  146. @DFH

    Do you know any other country that is afforded 10 bankruptcies in a century, yet still gets to borrow? Greece was, and still is, for UK (and richer EU) what Israel is for US – an enlightened colony, where the occupying power pays of the privilege of satisfying its dream of connecting to “the ancient”.

    Also, Jeremy Hunt spoke to the French in French. When was the last time a British diplomat spoke Italian to Italians, or Spanish to Spaniards, or Nederlandese to the Dutch? France is the major connection of UK to EU, and not only due to geography.

  147. @Lars Porsena

    Well, that idea certainly fits with the history of the Cossacks.

  148. @LondonBob

    Thomas wanted to join the Confederacy but was passed over? Cite your sources, please!

  149. DFH says:
    @Swarthy Greek

    You’re right, it should be part of Poland

  150. LondonBob says:

    The opinion of an ex US military fella who could be considered a historian of the period as he has had some work published. He applied for and was turned down for the VMI position and was never offered a meaningful command, just didn’t have the political connections in Virginia.

  151. dearieme says:
    @anon

    I don’t know the history of the move of the Education Department to Edinburgh but there’s a fair chance that it was seen as a move to protect the superiority of the Scottish schools, a superiority that started after the Reformation and ended only in the last couple of decades.

    I can’t see any virtue at all in having had English civil servants running a school system that was foreign to their experience.

    • Replies: @anon
  152. @anon

    Thankfully, the descendants of Scottish Protestants living in America generally refer to themselves as “Scotch-Irish.” So at least sanity prevails on this side of the Atlantic.

    As for me, I myself am 1/4 SCOTCH-Irish.

  153. @LondonBob

    That sounds very interesting and I’d like to read anything on those lines. Was this opinion published or related personally to you?

    I knew that Thomas was turned down for VMI, but had never heard of any speculation about a desire to join the actual Confederate cause.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
  154. Beckow says:
    @Mr. Hack

    …Were they related to the Polyani of Poland?

    Neighbouring tribes (or nations) seldom have names that are almost identical. It would make it hard to communicate. That suggests that the ‘Pole, Polyan’ names refer to something more generic, e.g. they both could be known primarily as farmers because they worked the fields (‘pole’ or ‘polye’).

    The problem for modern Ukrainian nationalists is that the name ‘Ukraine’ is quite recent (17th century?), and that it means ‘borderlands’. The nation living there was known by different names, regional terms like Galicians, or simply as a branch of Russians, e.g. Malorussians, Rusins, etc…

    I have no issue with the modern Ukrainian nation, nations form and rename themselves all the time. But it would ahistoric to refer to the medieval people living in that region as Ukrainians, they would not recognise it. Let’s just call them the ‘ancestors of Ukrainians’.

    This is in no way specific to Ukrainians, it equally applies to half of the nations in eastern Europe, from Rumanians to Latvians, those are neologisms created in 19th century.

  155. LondonBob says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Afraid I can’t be more specific but he really knows his stuff. One of those things we will never really know as he was never offered a Confederate command to turn down.

  156. anon[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    Sure, but that’s got nothing to do with why “scotch” should suddenly become offensive

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  157. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.

  158. In bilingual Wales, the Welsh speakers do not mix languages. When speaking English they use English names. Wales not Cymru, Swansea not Abertawe, Brecon not Aberhonddu (despite Brecon being a much older form), Abergavenny/Y Fenni (both forms being Welsh!).

    A very few English speakers in the South do use Welsh forms to emphasize their nationalism as do some English immigrants who want to please but don’t quite get it. The issue in Wales is language equality on signs. That has backfired badly. Labour party socialists view the world through a lense of equalism. So they have now mandated signs with translations of Welsh names into English when none existed before. This loses the point!

  159. @anon

    19th Century schoolmasters are usually to blame. It’s probably something to do with Latin or French grammar. Inmthe 18 C Scotch was acceptable.

  160. Seraphim says:
    @Blindspots of galactic proportions

    Petrograd was the ‘Russification’ of Sankt Peterburg: “On 1 September 1914, after the outbreak of World War I, the Imperial government renamed the city Petrograd, meaning “Peter’s City”, to remove the German words Sankt and Burg”.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  161. @Thorfinnsson

    Macedonia in this period also began appropriating Bulgarian historical figures and achievements.

    Actually, the practice dates back to the late 19th century.

    What is it like to get a kick out of talking about things you clearly so know little about?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Epigon
  162. @Philip Owen

    “The Ukraine” is grammatically correct as the translation of Ukrania is March, a borderland where inhabitants have rights to bear arms. March is preceded by a definite article. The Welsh Marches, The Roussilon March, The Brandenburg Mark. There is an exception with the early Anglish Kingdom of Mercia, the name being an early form of March.

    I don’t recall journalists having any problem calling the region in Croatia that was a Serbian stronghold during the Yugoslav wars “Krajina” instead of “the Krajina.” So I don’t see why it should be so hard to just say Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  163. @DFH

    That is not true, Herodotus talked about their Greek ancestry and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games because of it. The only time most of the Greeks fought on the same side (before being conquered by Macedon) was during the Persian invasions, and although the Macedonians did medise, so did many other Greeks (including the Thebans).

    Just prior to the Balkan Wars (of 1912/13), even the portion that became part of Greece was heavily demographically mixed between Greeks, Bulgarians (today “Macedonians”) and Turks. Census numbers relating to this period remain hotly contested down to the present day, but it is clear that the region only became overwhelmingly Greek after the population exchange with Turkey brought a million more Greeks to Greece. A separate, smaller population exchange with Bulgaria, as well as a general exodus of Bulgarians to Bulgaria after WWI and, after the Greek Civil War, to Yugoslavia, also thinned out slavic numbers.

  164. AP says:

    So by this logic all countries that were once colonized are “fake and gay.” India with Bombay/Mumbai, Slovakia with Pressburg/Bratislava, Sri Lanka/Ceylon, Myanmar/Burma, etc.

    It’s sort of an admission that Ukraine was a colony of Russia, rather than an integral part of Russia.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Anon
  165. Seraphim says:
    @Colin Wright

    The native name of ‘Georgia/Грузия’ is Sakartvelo (საქართველო) as it appears on Georgian passports.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  166. AP says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    1. No. But Russians also perished. Ukrainian nationalists once claimed 7 million Ukrainians died (1 million ore than the number of Jews alleged to have died in the Holocaust). But modern consensus is a total of about 6 million deaths in the USSR, half of whom were in the Ukrainian SSR. So Ukraine was about 1/3 of the USSR population but half of the people who were starved to death. Within Ukraine the countryside was starved while the cities were fed. This meant ethnic Ukrainians were disproportionately affected (cities had large Russian and Jewish populations).

    2. They’ve been there since the late 18th century in small numbers, but increased from the late 19th to 20th centuries with industrialization (Ukrainian farmers would rather get fresh lands in Siberia than move into some factory town). However Stalin’s work increased % of Russian population relative to Ukrainian for reasons described previously.

    3. Yes, he did. There are many less world-famous Ukrainians who would disagree.

  167. Dmitry says:
    @Blindspots of galactic proportions

    incomprehensible books that no one standing here has read or will read,” Admiral Mukhametshin

    So some stupid Tatar is complaining he cannot understand the books of one of history’s most intelligent men.

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway. For example, reading this website for a year, and we’ve seen no evidence that anyone here e is close to being intelligent enough to discuss Kant.

    Kant’s never going to develop some mass popularity for winning many naming competitions outside his nationality, when only a smallish fraction (even among his own nationality) would ever be clever enough to understand him.

  168. Anatoly, I very much enjoy your blog. Questions: are Ukrainians aware of what a jewish operation [(((kaganovich))) of course being in charge] the Holodomor was ? If so, why hold it against Christian Russians?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  169. @fredyetagain aka superhonky

    For political expediency. When you want to sell your soul to Zionist-run US, you can’t talk about Jewish crimes, so you have to lay the blame elsewhere.

    Besides, the people who do it are not Ukrainians, they are Ukies, who constitute less than 10% of current Ukrainian population. But they are vocal and ruthless, like Zionists in the US, so they don’t give the rest a chance to express their opinions.

  170. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    To be honest, only about 10% of the population is intelligent enough to understand (and therefore to like) Kant anyway.

    And it’s not so surprising contemporary admiral, is not part of the smart fraction.

    Although, I would not be surprised he was not more in the bottom 10% (he apparently does not understand even that Kant was German, and his city was part of Kingdom of Prussia for all but 4 years of his life).

  171. @AP

    Sri Lanka is pretty fake. Unsure if it’s gay or not.

    • Replies: @Anon
  172. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    ‘What is a “Romios”?’

    Apparently, what the Christian inhabitants of that part of the Southern Balkans then part of the Ottoman Empire and now Greece called themselves.

  173. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    A Polish nationalist once told me that this is proof that Ukrainians and Poles are one people but that the evil Scandinavians separated Ukrainians from Poles, forcing the Orthodox religion upon them which solidified the division.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  174. @German_reader

    ‘a Roman, Byzantines considered themselves as Romans (Rhomaioi).
    iirc Hellenes for most of the Byzantine empire was a somewhat pejorative term, used only to refer to the pagan Greeks of antiquity, not the Christian Byzantines.’

    It’s also my impression that the whole connection to the ancient Hellenes schtick is largely for foreign consumption/ego-stroking. In most respects, modern Greeks seem to look back to the late Byzantine Empire for their sense of identity. Their last — and disastrous — move in the Greco-Turkish war of 1920-21 was to try to seize Constantinople from the occupying Western powers.

    Constantinople wasn’t even an ancient Greek city of any note. It was, however, the center of the Byzantine Empire. The move was nonsensical if one sees modern Greeks as heirs to the Greeks of Homer. It made perfect sense if one sees them as Byzantines revived.

  175. AP says:
    @Epigon

    Genetics have laid these claims to rest. The Rurikids originated in Sweden:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rurikid/about/background

    http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mozhayski/genealogy/teksty/ydna.html

    “thanks to this, i.e. Rurikid project, we can now say that Rurik was a historical person who was born on the Roslagen seashore (slightly north of Stockholm, Sweden). However, he was of Finno-Ugrian descent (haplogroup N1c1 (earlier described as N3a)). Although all of well matching N1c1 Rurikid princes are descended from Yaroslav Mudry (978 – 1054), it seems that his ancestors including Rurik (b. ab. 820 – 876) himself, also belonged to this haplogroup. A group of Swedes, whose ancestors lived in or close to Uppsala, and whose genetic haplotypes are very close to these of the Rurikids, seems to be confirming the theory that Rurik, in fact, originated from Sweden.”

    • Replies: @Epigon
  176. @Colin Wright

    It’s also my impression that the whole connection to the ancient Hellenes schtick is largely for foreign consumption/ego-stroking.

    I don’t know, I recall having read once (iirc in the volume of the New Cambridge Medieval History about either the 13th or 14th century) that the traditional Byzantine self-conception changed somewhat in the 13th and 14th century to a more narrow Greek identity, almost a kind of proto-nationalism; e.g. even some bishops saw themselves in a direct succession to the pagan Greeks who had fought at Thermopylae and Marathon. Of course this was not least due to the fact that Byzantine dominions had radically contracted to the Greek core areas, and what remained of the “empire” then was much less multiethnic than had traditionally been the case.
    I confess ignorance to the significance of that phenomenon though, Greek nationalism isn’t something I know anything about.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  177. @Thulean Friend

    The word Hindu comes from old Persian pronunciation if Sindhu(Indus) to refer to people on the other side of the Indus river the then border between the Achmaneid Persian empire and Indian states.

    It predates Islam by over a millennia. The formal name of Hinduism is Sanatan Dharma BTW.

    I am all for naming cities to Hindu names if cities existed prior to their conquest so Ahmadabad should become Karnavati ,Allahabad should become Prayag etc.

    Btw Hindu India had more or less destroyed Muslim power in the 18th century under the Brahmin founded Maratha Empire…which was by far the biggest military force on the sub continent at the dawn of British Rule.

    There is a campaign to Sanskritize Hindi by purging it of Persian,Turkic and Arab words..Official Hindi is basically that and marks are deducted in exams for using middle eastern words instead of their Sanskrit equivalents..Sanskrit is also widely taught in schools.

    We need to atleast semi industrialize and the world needs to enter the post oil age (both likely in 15-20 years) for us to fully show the followers of the Arabian mental illness their place..till then we have to put up atleast a facade of civility and speak about how the bastards ‘enriched’ Indian civilization…

    The extent of Muslim devastation of India is truly horrific..the gangetic belt the heartland of Hindu civilization and the most fertile land in all Eurasia was basically flattened with every major temple and university destroyed..

    They will pay for this!

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  178. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    Well, you wouldn’t hear a Ukrainian nationalist claim just the opposite. But it could prove that the Polish influence in Ukraine began before the influx of Poles in the pre-modern period. Generically, the two nations are quite closely related. These two tribes may not have been exactly identical, but branches of a common ancestor?

  179. LH says:
    @Beckow

    The origin of the word Czech is not clear. Certainly it does not come from the legend, which was 12th century artifact. One possibility is that the word Czechs meant “our people”, another that it designated “dry land” (the central Bohemia lacking marshes).

    Bohemia has Latin origin – land of Celtic tribe Boii – and the tribal name was later reused by Frankish scribes, in several butchered forms, and eventually caught in Bohemia itself, adding to the mess.

    Václav Havel is forgotten here.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  180. Kinez says:

    One division I’ve noticed (I’m sure I’m not the first) is between states named after nations, and nations named after states. Germany / Austria, Serbia / Montenegro, Russia / Ukraine etc

  181. songbird says:

    What fake country will be next on the chopping block? I would guess South Sudan, but I’m not sure it passes the test that Sudan did to be divided. The various Nilotic tribes have their distinctions, like Dinka scarificaton. But nothing like the skin color gradient or other factors required to set off SJW advocacy.

    Internal conflict may not be enough by itself. It think it requires the false strategic concerns of neocons or some diversity totem of SJWs.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  182. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    If there is something to worry about, it is more about our epoch than little politics. Cattle like this always existed, but are we in an epoch where cattle is becoming more brazen and unashamed?

    There maybe is less restraint nowadays to celebrate stupidity.

  183. @songbird

    What fake country will be next on the chopping block? I would guess South Sudan, but I’m not sure it passes the test that Sudan did to be divided. The various Nilotic tribes have their distinctions, like Dinka scarificaton. But nothing like the skin color gradient or other factors required to set off SJW advocacy.

    I find it pretty amazing that Europeans have created new ethnic groups in Africa based on English- and French-language colonial education.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cameroon-separatists-idUSKCN1IX4RS

    • Replies: @songbird
  184. Mikhail says: • Website
    @silviosilver

    They want to be known as “Ukraine” without “the” fine. In turn, I’ll refer to Krajina, Crimea and Donbass without “the”.

    I’ll also spell “Kiev”, “Kharkov” and “Odessa” as such. I’ll make exceptions for “Lviv” and “Kyiv Post”.

  185. Seraphim says:
    @LH

    The name given by Latin writers was ‘Boiohaemum’ which might be the ‘home (heim ) of the Boii’.

    • Replies: @LH
  186. Seraphim says:
    @German_reader

    ‘Byzantine’ Empire is a misnomer. It always was Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων, Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων, Ἀρχὴ τῶν Ῥωμαίων, Empire of the Romans, or simply Ῥωμανία. The Emperor was ‘basileus ton Romaion’ (emperor of the Romans). Until late, ‘Hellenes’ was for the Romei equivalent to ‘pagans’.
    Only from Charlemagne usurpation of the ‘Roman Emperor’ title, the ‘West’ started calling derogatorily the ‘East’, the ‘Greek Empire’ and the legitimate Roman Emperor, the ‘Emperor of the Greeks’ and Orthodoxy the ‘Greek Schism’.
    The term “Byzantine” does not occur until 1557, when the German historian Hieronymus Wolf published his work Corpus Historiæ Byzantinæ. Its widespread use afterwards was meant to stress that the ‘western’ empire was the real ‘Roman’ (the Holy Roman Empire – “of German nation”).

  187. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean

    It has always been a wonder to me that Nigeria is a country. Meanwhile, I think it speaks volumes about the Commonwealth that Cameroon was allowed to join.

    There is something perhaps oddly unique about more modern colonialism. The Roman vulgate was corrupted and split into new tongues, which later influenced the formation of nations. But modern European colonialism ended in the age of modern communications and travel, so language may have been an artificial glue, even as the native languages persist. I wonder whether, for instance, India would really be a country without the English.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  188. @Pericles

    This is where the Scandinavian vs Nordic distinction comes in. Germanic countries in the region are Scandinavian, where as the broader group of sideways cross flags is Nordic (former Kalmar Union). Finnish is not an IE language but culturally they share a great deal with Scandoknavians, except Finns have more self respect and are vastly more manly than homosexual Scandos, especially Swedish subhumans.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Pericles
  189. Mexicans and Brazilians sometimes get bent out of shape when Yanks call themselves “American”, I don’t know if this is really the same phenomenon as with the Ukraine.

    I think the Greeks don’t push hard enough for “Hellas”, we really should dump the word “Greek”, they are Hellenes, give them that.

    Persia rebranding as Iran was a good move and reasonable IMO. As with all things it comes down to whom/whom/when. Georgians and southwest Russians are, as you say, gay currently, so screw ‘em!

  190. @Boswald Bollocksworth

    Finns have more self respect and are vastly more manly than homosexual Scandos, especially Swedish subhumans.

    While Finland and Sweden were both officially neutral, Finland was less exposed to Jewish-American cultural influences under the Soviet-accomodationist soft dictatorship than pro-American Sweden.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  191. Epigon says:
    @AP

    Strawman articles:

    1. That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected – northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.

    2. In addition to obvious Finno-Ugric tribe presence, northern Russia has numerous “viking” burial sites of earlier date than Rurikid ascendance – but those “vikings” are not necessarily Norse/Germanics – it was a cultural/lifestyle thing. And the exchange between Scandinavia, Balts and Slavs was two-way – there are Swedish words of obvious Slavic descent. And as I have previously stated, the supposedly invincible Danes during the times of their North Sea Empire were unable to defend their own homeland against Slavic pirates of Baltic, the same way Balts raided Sweden later on.

    3. Genetics on that level is actually not important – culture, artifacts, language are more relevant.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @AP
  192. Epigon says:
    @Dmitry

    For a self-proclaimed very intelligent person, you place a huge emphasis on arbitrary, unscientific ramblings and musings from distant past.

    Now tell me, why would a highly intelligent person invest time into discussing non-factual, unscientific ranting of another individual where no conclusive evidence, arguments can exist?
    Something tells me you don’t have the capacity to discuss Gauss and Maxwell – LOL at Kant being “one of history’s most intelligent men”.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Dmitry
  193. Epigon says:
    @silviosilver

    Calling historical Slavs of Strymon valley, Macedonia, Thessaly and Epirus – Bulgarians, while telling others they know little about history.

    Priceless.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  194. DFH says:
    @Epigon

    I think your comments proved Dmitry’s point pretty well

    • Replies: @Epigon
  195. Epigon says:
    @DFH

    Sure you do.

    Off to the philosophy discussing forums with you.

  196. @Colin Wright

    Georgia is very much a historical and demographic fact, while the Ukraine and Latvia don’t strike me as any more problematic than quite a few others.

    The problem with the Ukraine is that it’s an artificial entity created by Soviet diktat.

    Like all Soviet centrally-planned things, it is an abominably ugly abortion, prone to crime, corruption and soul-sucking gray ugliness.

  197. Epigon says:

    A simple division for countries:

    1. Countries named after ethnos that inhabits it/founded the state (France, England, Russia, Denmark, Poland)

    2. Areas/regions that lent the name to population inhabiting it (Belgium, Ukraine, Belarus, Macedonia*, Austria, all of Latin America, Africa)

  198. @Dmitry

    I wasted almost an entire year of my life studying Kant, and looking back, I have to admit intellectual machismo was no small part in my motivation. I wouldn’t quite say “there is no there there”, but only two basic points are worth discussing– the categorical imperative and the idea that the mind imposes its own mathematical structure on perception, rather than the other way around. Neither idea is original, but one might be able to profitably use selected readings from Kant as grist for the mill of contemplating them.

    That said, it’s rather amusing that Russian admirals have opinions about Kant. I wonder if they sometimes deign to comment on Kaluza and his 5d unification of electromagnetism and general relativity.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Mightypeon
  199. Pericles says:
    @Boswald Bollocksworth

    Well, we have admittedly been quite subservient to Judeo-Globohomo in the last few decades but these days it’s at least more of an 80/20 situation.

  200. LH says:
    @Seraphim

    Boiohaemum was the first appearance of the name, in Historiae by Marcus Velleius Paterculus. Later variants for the location and its people were: Bohemi in Notitia Dignitatum, Bainaib/Baiohaim in Historia Langobardorum, Beowinidis in Historia Langobardorum codicis Gothani, Bohemannorum in 845 document about baptizing Czech chieftains, Bohemani and Beuwinitha in the Annals of Xanten, Beheimi in Annales regni Francorum, and several more.

    Early variant of the word Czech appeared in Annales Tilliani, 805, as “Cinu”.

    My source: Petr Charvát, The Emergence of the Bohemian State.

  201. @AP

    There are many less world-famous Ukrainians who would disagree.

    Name some less world-famous Ukrainian figures of stature who would disagree.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  202. Seraphim says:
    @Epigon

    That’s very likely.
    A very suggestive site, worth a serious consideration:
    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uiralamenu.html

    UI-RA-LA: The Ancient World of Boat Peoples, by Andres Pääbo

    “These articles explore the current information from archeology, paleoclimatology, population genetics, languages, and so on, to explore one facet of history since the Ice Age, the development of the boat as a central part of a ways of life – much like the automobile and truck today – and how this innovation allowed humans to travel some 5 times further or farther than previously on foot, and use all water bodies and rivers as readymade highways.

    UIRALA: THE LANDS RELEASED FROM UNDER THE GLACIERS AND THE DEVELOPMENT AND EXPANSION OF BOAT PEOPLES FROM IT.
    PREFACE >> PREFACE
    OVERVIEW >> OVERVIEW
    CHAPTER ONE >> 1. ADAPTING TO THE FLOODED NORTH EUROPEAN REINDEER PEOPLE ADAPT TO POST-GLACIAL WARMING AND FLOODING 20,000-12,000_bp
    CHAPTER TWO >> 2. ORIGIN AND EXPANSION EXPANSION OF THE NEW BOAT- ORIENTED HUNTERS INTO FLOODED LANDS 12,000-6,000BP
    CHAPTER THREE >> 3. EXPANSIONS TO SEA THE DEVELOPMENT OF SEAGOING SKIN BOATS AND EXPANSION TO THE ARCTIC 6,000-4,000BP
    CHAPTER FOUR >>4. OCEANIC VOYAGES THE VOYAGES THROUGH OCEANS
    THE LANGUAGES PERSPECTIVE
    The investigation into the story of the birth and expansion of northern boat-oriented hunter-gatherers is/was an original multi-disciplinary investigation, based mainy in archeological and associated discoveries over the past century. Languages are naturally one of the areas that can contribute some data to this multidiciplinary approach. We provide discussions about languages in separate articles below
    2A. LANGUAGE IN UIRALA THE “URALIC LANGUAGE FAMILY” INTERPRETED IN A WISER FASHION THAN A CENTURY AGO.)
    4A. LANGUAGES ACROSS OCEANS LANGUAGES OF THE EXPANSIONS OF THE “KUNDA” CULTURE INTO THE OCEANS

    THE VENETI: A CONSEQUENCE OF THE BOAT PEOPLES SUCCESS WITHIN EARLY CIVILIZATION
    While much of the boat peoples remained in the world of aboriginal hunter gatherers, about 5,000 years ago, the boat peoples discovered their boats could serve a major role in civilizations to the south, in transporting goods between the stationary agriculturally-based settled peoples. Professional large scale traders developed, and from it there developed a Veneti trade system north of the Mediterranean, as widely distributed and busy as the Phoenicians and Greeks in the Mediterrean. Due to this view that these Veneti originated from the northern boat peoples, and spoke a Finnic language, we had to spend some years deciphering the writings left in northern Italy by these people to show they were in a Finnic language
    Work on the Veneti has been a separate pursuit, and is found in another part of this website. Return to the main menu for links”.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  203. Dmitry says:
    @The Big Red Scary

    I wasted almost an entire year of my life studying Kant… I wouldn’t quite say “there is no there there”, but only two basic points

    Without intending to cause any offense, it can be inferred the problem here (as generally when any people say these kind of things) is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.

    I’m not going to boast I am the amazing genius above others. But I have about 4 hours of my life studying Kant, and it was enough to blow up the brain.

    That said, it’s rather amusing that Russian admirals have opinions about Kant.

    I would like to assume this “admiral gopnik” would be unusual anywhere. But I have suspicion that very similar kinds of biological trash also are displaying themselves openly in America, China, etc, so that this may be becoming a global problem.

  204. Dmitry says:
    @Epigon

    Well I have to study/work in a primarily mathematical area.

    But remembering back to my university days.

    From 5 years in the university, the higher part of my brain (not just studying to pass the exam) was more stimulated in a course in physics and a course in philosophy.

    The theoretical and interesting parts of my discipline itself actually rapidly take you to very strange philosophical questions and debates.

  205. @Epigon

    Well, that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over (outside Macedonia) take, so, whether I’m right or wrong, my opinion is indeed historically informed. (In any case, they’re vastly closer to Bulgarians than to Serbs, that’s just obvious.)

    Besides, I didn’t say he knew nothing about history; just nothing about the specific subject he was pontificating on.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  206. @Seraphim

    A very suggestive site, worth a serious consideration:

    http://www.paabo.ca/uirala/uiralamenu.html

    Ehh. Just pointing out, in case, that this Andres Pääbo guy and his fansites are not to be confused with Svante Pääbo, prominent geneticist whose name will pop up a lot if you cite sources on northern European DNA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_P%C3%A4%C3%A4bo

    The “Uirala” stuff by Andres Pääbo is the typical “ancient Estonians ruled the world but this knowledge has been suppressed by occupiers” stuff that you find any any aggrieved nationality.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @reiner Tor
  207. @Colin Wright

    In most respects, modern Greeks seem to look back to the late Byzantine Empire for their sense of identity.

    Their Byzantine past obviously helped shape modern Greeks’ sense of themselves, but it’s ludicrous to maintain that modern Greek identity is not significantly influenced by an awareness that its roots are far more ancient than that.

  208. Dmitry says:
    @Hyperborean

    There are 66% more Swedish people in Sweden than there are Jewish people in America.

    So I wonder, are the latter believed as some kind of ubermenschen who control and have responsibility for decisions of other nationalities, including nationalities like Swedish people who are thousands of kilometers away, that are highly developed themselves, that have their own education, intellectual and spiritual heritage, and a higher quality of life.

    Also this belief in active and passive is very interesting. So Jewish people are active (like ‘masters’), deciding the fate of the world, even if they compose 0.18% of the world population.

    While Swedish people are the passive race (?) whose decisions are result of others without their own responsibility or free choice. Even though Swedish people have the highest quality of life in the world, created some of the world’s largest companies, have dozens of billionaires, have their own culture, writers, intellectuals, thirty Nobel prizes, one of the most advanced military-industrial complexes, build fighter planes, and have been unconquered (excluding their territories) for centuries.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  209. @Dmitry

    But I have about 4 hours of my life studying Kant, and it was enough to blow up the brain.

    There are much better intellectual games if you want to brag about your pointless and wasteful misallocation of brain resources. I suggest vidya or wargames instead.

    le biological trash spiel

    Please leave your Jewish racist blabber at the cheder, thanks.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  210. Epigon says:
    @silviosilver

    that is certainly the position that academic historians the world over

    No, they don’t.

    Slavs were in Macedonia (Aegean as well as Strymon Macedonia) before Bulgarians were a thing, even before Bolghars invaded. In addition, those Slavs fought AGAINST Bulgarians when they expanded.
    Even more importantly, there was obviously a linguistic difference between the Slavic tribes that mixed with Bolghars to form the Bulgarians, and the Slavs that lived around Thessaloniki and whose dialect was used by Cyril and Methodius to create the Old Church Slavonic, Glagolitic script and which formed the basis of Old Slavonic languages – for starters, the number of cases is different, not to mention the -jat- difference – Bulgaria itself is actually divided into two historical dialect areas.

    The eastern part of FYROM/North Macedonia are actual Bulgarians – Strumica, for example Zoran Zaev.
    The rest of them are a diverse mix, including descendants of those who fled Greece during and after the Greek Civil War in the aftermath of WW2, and Serbs in the northern part concentrated around Kumanovo and Skoplje, assimilated by Yugocommunists (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski – even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were “treated” this way).

  211. Speaking of gay countries, I’m sure you’ll all be pleased to learn the following:

    Boys can have periods too, children to be taught in latest victory for transgender campaigners

    chool children will be taught that “all genders” can have periods in new sex education lessons, in a victory for transgender rights campaigners.

    The advice to teachers was approved by Brighton & Hove City Council as they try to tackle stigma around menstruation.

    The new advice follows a council report which said: “Trans boys and men and non-binary people may have periods”, adding that “menstruation must be inclusive of all genders”.

    Bins used for menstruation products will be provided in all toilets for children, according to the report . . .

    The report recommends that “language and learning about periods is inclusive of all genders, cultures, faiths and sexual orientations. For example; ‘girls and women and others who have periods’”.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/16/boys-can-have-periods-schoolchildren-taught-latest-victory-transgender/

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  212. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    “the majority in Russia have learned their lesson and won’t be fooled again”. – I hope this is true. If so, still the resolve was made on the rational level only but it was not integrated on the psychological level, so we see plenty of butt-hurt reactions.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  213. Dmitry says:
    @anonymous coward

    Anonymous Coward you are one of the better example here that Americans can be more uneducated and mentally feeble than anything we could produce.

    The worry of the admiral is not that (like you) he is proud cattle who boasts that he can’t understand Kant. Worry is that (unlike you) he has an important job.

    As for descriptions of cattle, you can try to blame this on Jewish philology (this was one of Karlin’s most strange ideas that he misled foreign readers with, although perhaps it’s a compliment to him as it shows he wastes no time on the Russian internet where it is of course overused to the extent of being wearing).

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @anonymous coward
  214. @Dmitry

    As Karlin has noted, it is very easy to draw a line regarding nationalism between the respective European spheres of influence of the USA and USSR.

    Just as Eastern Europe was remade along Soviet lines, utilising local collaborators, so a similar counterpart process was going on in Western Europe.

    Stalin is supposed to have said something along the lines of ‘whoever controls a territory imposes his own social system’ – this attitude sums up American cultural policy for its vassals well.

    And as the philosemitic Mr. Hack has admitted, Jews are responsible for creating much of modern American culture.

    The Pareto principle – law of the vital few – works well here, and Jews have proven, through their entrance to higher occupations and positions and their activism, that they are a determined minority.

    And ultimately, yes, a few million people in America have more influence than billions of Africans or Indians.

  215. @Dmitry

    the problem here is with the student, or their method of study, rather than with what they studied.

    I was a university philosophy student at the time, writing papers on Kant and the philosophy of mathematics. However, we seem to agree that you made the wiser choice in the amount of time you spent on the subject.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Bardon Kaldian
  216. AP says:
    @Epigon

    That Rurikids which were tested displayed Finno-Ugrian descent is completely expected – northern Russia, Novgorod, Ilmen surroundings are the initial core.

    But as noted, this particular Finno-Ugric branch were from Sweden, not Finland or Northern Russia.

    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @Epigon
  217. Epigon says:
    @Dmitry

    I think anonymous coward is a Russian from Russian Federation.

    I certainly get that laconic, archetypal Russian vibe from his posts.

  218. Dmitry says:
    @The Big Red Scary

    Kant’s ideas were some of the most wild and revolutionary ever proposed (and they don’t seem much less revolutionary no).

    So I don’t understand how a student could at the same time understand Kant (to the extent of writing papers on his philosophy of mathematics) and feel there was nothing there.

  219. Epigon says:
    @AP

    It is not very rewarding to test Y-DNA of long deceased people to find relation to modern populations. A lot has happened in both northern Russia and Sweden since 8th-9th century.

    Besides, even if the modern Swedes in that location and Rurikids share a male ancestor, it doesn’t prove a Sweden-descended/Norman military elite subjugated Slavic and Finnic tribes of Rus’.

    • Replies: @AP
  220. @Dmitry

    Anonymous Coward you are one of the better example here that Americans can be more uneducated and mentally feeble than anything we could produce.

    I’m not American, you tard.

    le cattle spiel

    Like I said, please leave the Jewish blabber at the cheder.

    The problem with Kant is not that he’s hard to understand. The problem with Kant is that studying his dreck never, ever, ever made the world even a iota better. Kant is a parasite and a satanist. Nothing good ever came from Kant. (What other ethnic group is like that, I wonder, hmmm…)

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  221. @Epigon

    You are an unreal fucking retard.

  222. Epigon says:
    @AP

    To clarify what I meant by my comment: testing Nicholas II and his ancestors and looking for a region with genetically most similar population and then extrapolating from that data would point towards wrong conclusions.

  223. @Epigon

    So what? Ethnicities aren’t firmly fixed phenomena. If slavic speakers from Macedonia became Bulgarian at a later date than slavic speakers in Thrace and Bulgaria, it doesn’t make them any less Bulgarian. Every historian regards the overwhelming majority of slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia prior to the war as Bulgarians, exactly as they regarded themselves.

    (removal of -ić suffix in surnames, addition of -ov, -ski – even veterans of Royal Serbian Army from WW1 were “treated” this way).

    If that even happened (the “yugocommunists” did this??), it was a total handsomely exceeded by those who had -ić endings rudely affixed to their surnames prior to WWII.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  224. utu says:
    @Epigon

    “Slavs were in Macedonia (Aegean as well as Strymon Macedonia) before Bulgarians were a thing, even before Bolghars invaded. “ – did the big Bulgarian dogs play a role in their successful invasion?

  225. Epigon says:
    @silviosilver

    If slavic speakers from Macedonia became Bulgarian at a later date than slavic speakers in Thrace and Bulgaria, it doesn’t make them any less Bulgarian.

    Then why did these Bulgarians need Bulgarian VMRO terrorists and propaganda funded from Sofia in late 19th and early 20th century to tell them they are Bulgarians?

    Every historian regards the overwhelming majority of slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia prior to the war as Bulgarians, exactly as they regarded themselves.

    But they didn’t. That is the whole point. Slavs of Greece didn’t identify as Bulgarians – those Slavs ended up in Macedonia in large numbers. In addition, Ottoman Macedonia was carved up in Balkan War – Aegean Macedonia became part of Greece, Pirin Macedonia became part of Bulgaria and Strymon Macedonia became part of Serbia. The last one is current FYROM/North Macedonia.

    it was a total handsomely exceeded by those who had -ić endings rudely affixed to their surnames prior to WWII.

    Reality and actual census data demonstrates the opposite.
    Also, the Yugocommunists burned all the records and church books they could get their hands on, and created the Macedonian Orthodox Church – all steps of a nation building process.

    @utu

    did the big Bulgarian dogs play a role in their successful invasion?

    Nope, it happened at an earlier date – Bulgarians came more than a century later.

  226. Dmitry says:
    @anonymous coward

    I’m not American, you tard.

    Well, some good news for the Americans.

    Jewish blabber

    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language, although you want another excuse to discuss that boring topic….

    at the cheder.

    This is a type of English cheese.

    . Kant is a parasite and a satanist.

    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) – then congratulations, it seems you have won again.

  227. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The (sort of disputed) Prime Minister is.

    You go kill a bunch of LTTE guys and we’ll talk about fake though.

  228. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @AP

    The Bombay/Mumbai thing was pretty stupid. But it’s a self-esteem thing. I can’t really judge the others except Sri Lanka, which probably ought to just be “Lanka”. But the main UK island calls itself “Great Britain”, so whatever.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Hyperborean
  229. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today, and perhaps should be discouraged now for being too ubiquitous and cliche.

    Sure, maybe it has sounds strange in English, and should use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    “Redneck” is a word with a meaning. It’s not a generic insult. Are you going for “peasant”? That’s not really a mere insult either though; it also has a meaning. Maybe the wisest thing is just not to try to insult random strangers online in a language which is not that which comes first to your mind.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  230. @songbird

    I find that the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe.

    India is a civilization rather than a nation, and like Europe it has briefly been mostly united a few sporadic times in its history.

    Mauryan Empire

    Moghul Empire

    Maratha Confederacy

    British Raj

    Republic of India

    Compare to Europe with the Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire (Charlemagne), Hapsburg Empire (Charles V), Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.

  231. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @g2k

    See, though, nobody outside the Slavic sphere of influence has ever heard of Gruzia, but we’ve all heard of Georgia and Georgians, and it sounds less bizarre to us though we probably pronounce it wrong. I suppose Georgia probably has closer connections with ex-Soviet places than with the rest of the world, so I guess the “Gruzia” thing will probably last a little longer.

    • Replies: @g2k
  232. @utu

    Psychologically, I don’t understand butt-hurt reactions of some Russians. However, they might be less prevalent than perceived from the outside. Thing is, in Russian culture traitors are considered maybe just a notch above child molesters. Traitors, along with informers, sneaks and snitches of all stripes, are universally despised. So, many Russians are hurt that their view of Ukrainians as normal people was so wrong. Personally, I think they are wrong. Current policies are driven not by Ukrainians, but by Ukies, constituting no more than 10% of the population of Ukraine. They suppress dissent of normal people because they are ruthless and vocal, like Zionists in the US. But they are still the tail, not the dog.

    • Replies: @utu
  233. @Anon

    Today it is more like “formerly great formerly Britain”.

    • LOL: Spisarevski
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  234. @for-the-record

    This started in Australia where they vaccinate boys against HPV.

    • Replies: @songbird
  235. Dmitry says:
    @Anon

    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    Cattle is so overused, particularly on internet nowadays, it has become perhaps a bit meaningless though.*

    Also I believe English is too politically correct, to create equivalent translations. Nietzsche uses a French word “canaille” in his writing (but this probably has too much snobby connotation).

    * Typing in the search engine of the newspapers for the last week:

    Bishop of Rostov said yesterday, government encourages liberal education because they want to create spiritually illiterate cattle (it’s easier to manage cattle).

    Actor Andrei Gaydulyan has called his theatre audience cattle. Other actors denounce him for insulting his audience.

    Lena Miro has called circus director Zapashny cattle, after he denounced to Putin, that oligarch Mikhail Gutseriev is unpatriotic, for wanting to introduce Cirque du Soleil to Russia. (Zapashny is also being sued by Gutseriev now).

    Actress Natalya Vetlitskaya says Russian speaking “cattle-children” are bullying her daughter in in Spain. (“cattle-children”).

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them “cattle” when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

  236. @Seraphim

    I asked a Georgian what the name of his country was in the Georgian tongue. He got confused, then said, in English, “the Land.” I could never make it clear to him what I was asking about.

    So, Sakartvelo, “land of Kartvelians.” You learn something new every day.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Seraphim
  237. g2k says:
    @Anon

    I think you’re severely overestimating peoples’ general knowledge. Probably well under 25% of anglos have ever heard of Georgia. I’m surprised that there haven’t been any articles about people accidentally booking flights to Tbilisi instead of Atalanta. It would be a great hidden camera prank though.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2603182/South-Ossetia-conflict-Concerned-US-citizen-gets-her-Georgias-confused.html

  238. songbird says:
    @Philip Owen

    I recall seeing an ad spot in the US with a boy who aged into a young man and had cancer. It was kind of sub rosa, but I was thinking the implication was perhaps that he was a sodomite and that his parents were allegedly morally culpable for not anticipating his extreme sodomite lifestyle and vaccinating him.

  239. @Dmitry

    Cattle is one of the most common insults in Russian today

    Only among Jews.

    No relation of language to Jews or Jewish language

    That’s something you could only believe if you don’t ever interact meaningfully with goys.

    Believe it or not, we goys don’t make it a habit to routinely dehumanize those not of the tribe. For us goys that kind of behavior is offensive and outrageous.

    This is a type of English cheese.

    Don’t deflect, you know full well the insult I made.

    If there was some competition for stupid comments of the week (month/year) – then congratulations, it seems you have won again.

    Thanks for the meaningful and convincing argument. I will now bow down to Kant’s superior intellect and light a black candle in worship of the Categorical Imperative.

  240. @Dmitry

    Well we need to find the English translation, indeed. What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    You already have a translation: “goy”.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  241. Dmitry says:
    @anonymous coward

    “Goy” means in the Bible “nationality” (for example Jews call themselves “Goy Kadosh” – “holy nation”). In later use, it becomes referring to members of other nations than Jews (non-Jews), by its absence of “holy” or “chosen” written after the word “nation”. In this sense, a “goy” refers by absence to a non-Jew (any person whose maternal grandmother was not a Jew).

    In the case above, we have an admiral who thinks Kant writes nonsense, and that Kant (a German who has been in the Russian Empire only 4 years of his 79 year life) was a traitor, who begged for a university job. So not just a stupid person, but one proud of their stupidity.

    Here are two concepts:

    1. A person who is not Jewish.

    2. An idiot who seems to think Kant was Russian living in Russian Empire, and who boasts proudly about not understanding his books.

    Connection between the two concepts, there is not.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  242. Tyrion 2 says:
    @Matra

    Great Britain is the biggest of the many British islands just like Gran Canaria is the biggest of the Canaries. It shouldn’t be even mildly controversial to use this name.

  243. @DFH

    Pretty poor attempt at a gotcha given that the English language is the lingua franca (pun unintended!) of the modern world. English has more influence on languages today than any of the other two, and we live in the here and now, and not centuries ago. Also, reducing it to whose nation has more loanwords is kind of autistic and besides the point.

    I was thinking about it the way we use language and how it shapes our thinking, though this obviously went right over your head like a lead balloon 😉

    • Replies: @DFH
  244. @Dmitry

    moron

    fool

    idiot

    imbecile

    dumbshit

    dumbass

    retard

    dipshit

    blockhead

    bozo

    subnormal

    bird brain

    nitwit

    bonehead

    dimwit

    etc.

  245. Gerard2 says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    This is the exact thing I was getting at when making the point about how Pakistan is a fake , but not gay, country. India is a multi-millennia civilisation.

    Pakistan has no less right , then India, to have been given the name “India” following Independence, if you know what I mean. Even more ridiculous that the creation of an independent series of states in the subcontinent had India, Pakistan…..and East Pakistan ( now called Bangladesh, after they fought for their Independence….against Pakistan). A typical British clown, created mess.
    India was majority ruled by Muslims just before the British rule, and even though Pakistan/Bangladesh were created on the Muslim issue…there are still 150 million+ Muslims in India.

    It must hurt massively culturally on some level, that with “Indian” food being a massive “export” to the world- most of this food is actually “Pakistani/Bangladeshi” in terms of who is cooking it, because most Indians are Hindus who don’t eat meat……whereas Muslims do and most of the famous “Indian” dishes are their creations.

    From what I understand, none of these Pakistani’s or Bangladeshi’s have any problem with their food being called Indian, or themselves being referred to as Indian

    I know a few people from Goa, and even they strongly identify as part of this great Indian civilisation and culture ( they are constantly referring to typical positive Indian character traits as their own , and how “we” Indians are always very good at mathematics and Engineering). So they identify as Indian even though-

    1. They have Portugese names
    2. They are all Catholic
    3. Many look clearly different
    4. Goa was still a Portuguese colony until some time after Indian independence

  246. @Vishnugupta

    The word Hindu comes from old Persian pronunciation if Sindhu(Indus) to refer to people on the other side of the Indus river the then border between the Achmaneid Persian empire and Indian states.
    It predates Islam by over a millennia.

    Right, but it is still foreign, Islamic influence or not. Hindustan is also a common word used in Hindi to describe India, which also comes from persians IIRC.

    The formal name of Hinduism is Sanatan Dharma BTW.

    I’ve heard about this before, though I would take issue calling it ‘formal’. Indigenous is probably a better term.

    I am all for naming cities to Hindu names if cities existed prior to their conquest so Ahmadabad should become Karnavati ,Allahabad should become Prayag

    Even if someone doesn’t care about the poetic justice of it all, one should still support it on the basis of aethestics. Karnavati sounds a lot better. I also prefer Gurugram to Gurgaeon. Kolkata definitely sounds better than Calcutta, which has a clownish tinge to it. The only oldschool names I’d prefer would probably be Bangalore over Bengaluru. Bombay does sound cooler than Mumbai. But overall, most new names are net improvements.

    There is a campaign to Sanskritize Hindi by purging it of Persian,Turkic and Arab words.

    That’s good, but as a non-Hindi speaker who listen to Indian officials and even Indian media from time to time, what strikes you is the extent to which people pepper their lingo with English words inserted, this is especially the case in more formal settings where discussions can become technocratic.

    Sanskrit is also widely taught in schools.

    doubt.jpeg

    Maybe in elite schools. And Indian primary and secondary school system quality is quite poor, as we saw in PISA 2009. The key question is how many have a strong grasp of the language. I’d doubt even 1% of the 15-24 population does. You’re more than welcome to provide sources for the “widely taught” remark. A lot of elite Indians tend to define themselves as ‘middle-class’ even if they are anything but. This seems like something similar.

    We need to atleast semi industrialize and the world needs to enter the post oil age (both likely in 15-20 years) for us to fully show the followers of the Arabian mental illness their place..till then we have to put up atleast a facade of civility and speak about how the bastards ‘enriched’ Indian civilization…
    The extent of Muslim devastation of India is truly horrific..the gangetic belt the heartland of Hindu civilization and the most fertile land in all Eurasia was basically flattened with every major temple and university destroyed..
    They will pay for this!

    It seems to me that India doesn’t have to do that much, if the ongoing crisis in Pakistan is anything to go by. It might even be in India’s interest to keep it from totally fall apart and face a nightmare nuclear proliferation scenario.

    It also appears to me that the main challenge to India is environmental, especially related to water. You also seem to have issues with employment generation. Plenty of protests by traditionally land-owning castes like the Jats in Haryana, Marathas, Patidars in Gujarat and others is worrisome. These were not traditionally backward castes and their demand for reservations show us that there is deep economic anxiety and pain in the Hindu heartland. Part of it is the non-viability of Indian agriculture, where these castes have seen their lands shrink by the decades as more and more infrastructure needed to be built, but insufficient jobs in the non-agricultural, especially manufacturing, sector was provided as an offset. Many jobs in the cities are petty and informal services.

    Next year it is election season. It is amusing to see Pappu and Modi Kaka trying to outdo themselves in farm loan waivers. Just today Gujarat went one step beyond and announced electricity bill waivers for the rural countryside.

    All of this, I think, is a distressing sign of the future. India has a very high-performing elite but it doesn’t seem to be able to create the kind of mass prosperity that China was able to.

    • Replies: @Vishnugupta
  247. DFH says:
    @Thulean Friend

    reducing it to whose nation has more loanwords is kind of autistic and besides the point

    But that was exactly what you were objecting to in what was, if I may say so, a kind of autistic and besides the point way

    Today, Hindi is often peppered with a lot of English phrases. There ought to be a general movement in Bharat today to clean up the language and root it in the local population and its accordant customs and traditions.

    • Replies: @Thulean Friend
  248. Beckow says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    the best way to think of India is to compare it to Europe

    NO!!! that’s the worst way to think of India. India is the world’s sewer: ancient, over-populated beyond any reasonable measure, unhealthy, dysfunctional, it fatally undermines anything it touches.

    In the same way as the Sub-Saharans undermine physical spaces in Europe, the Indians undermine the civilisational superstructure of Europe. Look at what happened to UK, it has collapsed in one generation and is overrun with different flavours of South Asian decline. It cannot be fixed once the Indian-Pakistani rot sets in: there are too many of them, they are relentless, and they function as parasites on more prosperous societies.

    Comparing India to Europe is an error, their civilised era was eons ago. Now they are a post-civilisation, something that will happen to Europe if it continues in its self-destructive absurd marriage to the Third World. Don’t compare, just have some boundaries.

    • Replies: @AP
  249. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    Most frequent barnyard insult in American English is to call someone “chicken” which means “cowardly”. Since chickens are monstrous animals, it is not the word I would have chosen, but still it sounds right.

    Sometimes you hear the expression “dumb as an ox.” Which of course is a type of cattle. another simile is “randy as a goat. ” Plural insults seem rare, but there is the newer “sheeple.”

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  250. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I understand that having Ukraine breaking away is a hard pill to swallow for Russians. And it does not help when Ukrainians act like jerks. Ideally Russians will develop a magnanimous disregard with a slight hint of condescension towards them just like Czechs had it from the very beginning towards the Slovaks when they started acting up or Swedes had towards Norwegians when they wanted to split up.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  251. @utu

    Can’t speak for Russians in Russia, but the polls there show steady decline of positive views on Ukraine and steady rise in negative views. In fact, even beautiful and melodious Ukrainian language, which used to be admired in many popular songs in USSR times, is now prompting rejection in Russia. From my perspective, for this alone Ukrainians should cut off Ukies’ genitals and nail them to trees before hanging Ukies on lampposts.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  252. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I never know what significance to give these Indian Empires. Could they be like the Ottamans, the Mongols, or Alexander the Great’s empire? Not natural but ephemeral. The Chinese dismissal of India, who they may have more reason to know, since they are closer to it, strikes me as having some significance, when they hit upon its disunity.

    Another factor to evaluate may be Buddhism. Why did it originate in India and then practically vanish there, except for Sri Lanka? Well, one interpretation is that Buddhism requires a strong government to patronize monasteries, and that India experienced many periods of anarchy.

    BTW, I do prefer “Indian” as universal term for the subcontinent. When the term “Asian” is used, it just feels like they are trying to ride the coattails of East Asians, and it is a ridiculous term to use when they practically have their own continent. Maybe, I’m mischaracterizing its origins, but the BBC once used the term “South Asia” and then eliminated it. It is how it strikes one in America anyway.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Thorfinnsson
  253. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dmitry

    Well we need to find the English translation

    This is an illusion.

    What would be the suitable English insults for such a character as this admiral?

    What admiral? A suitable English insult implies you are suiting it to an occasion. Since a) I have no idea what the occasion might be and b) I prefer to read other than catalogues of insults, I recommend you simply deliver the insult in Russian; thus you can be more sure of its suitability and (obviously) equivalence to the Russian.

    Songbird and Thorf. have good suggestions if you must deliver in English.

    Nobody will understand you if you use any of these: https://www.urbandictionary.com/tags.php?tag=insult which is probably much to the better.

  254. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @songbird

    who they may have more reason to know

    I’m not Chinese or Indian but my impression is that the Chinese know remarkably little about India; not that if they knew more they’d be much more favorable.

    I never know what significance to give these Indian Empires

    There are a lot of them. It’s usually the case historically, or so at least it seems, that Northern India has an anarchy of statelets and a loose hegemonic power (or several) either falling from importance or coming into power. I suppose it’s not unlike historical Germany, without the coherence provided by the HRE. Southern India has its own historical patterns which are generally more stable.

    Buddhism lasted a long while up in the Indus valley, in some of what is now Pakistan. That ended predictably.

  255. Mr. Hack says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Hey Janissary – your self deprecating and self loathing behavior is really pathetic. What a schmuck! 🙁

  256. @Dmitry

    Redneck only has a positive connotation when used by rednecks in reference to themselves and/or other rednecks. It is similar to how the blacks used the “n-word”

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @Anon
  257. @Dmitry

    In Warsaw it was reported, two Ukrainian guest workers were beaten up by a Polish man while in the bus, who shouted at them “cattle” when he heard them speaking Ukrainian.

    I’m getting the sense that Germans and their descendants here in America treat their/our farm animals better than Slavs treat theirs.

  258. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    To aid those who already confuse Georgia with a US state, they can also call it Iberia and confuse it with a completely different place.

  259. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    But it’s not a generic insult, it’s a term of description. If I get angry with my shyster NY lawyer, I don’t say: “How could you lose me the estate, you d–n redneck?” Whereas the negative connotations certainly exist, they arise originally mostly from people who look down on a certain class of laborers.

  260. iffen says:
    @Dmitry

    use a different word to write in English here like redneck (but that creates another argument on here as it has a positive connotation in American).

    Stop using the word : redneck, you ignorant retard. You do not know what the word means.

  261. India has far more languages than China. This suggests the Aboriginal populations were more numerous, harder to displace. They were conquered for tribute rather displaced for land. The Ganges plain is hard to beat.

  262. @songbird

    China might border India, but contacts between India and China are quite modest. The Himalayas are a formidable barrier, and the Chinese side of the border is sparsely populated and has not always been part of China or even Chinese civilization.

    Both countries have more contact with the West than they do each other.

    I don’t know that any Indian empires were “natural”, but the subcontinent is clearly a single civilization and has been recognized as such by its inhabitants for a very long time. Just as there have been many Indian empires, there have been many Persian empires.

    The Indian subcontinent has formidable natural geographic boundaries which served to consolidate their cultural space. The term dharma, encompassing all Indian religions, has been in use for thousands of years.

    • Replies: @Anon
  263. Anon[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Only it doesn’t mean “religion”, it means something like “righteousness”. Which is not to deny the cultural continuum which largely corresponds to things like the use of Sanskrit as the highest-register language, like Latin in Europe or Arabic in the ME.

    (Dharma in Pali is “dhamma”, which shows up a lot in Buddhist contexts.)

  264. Seraphim says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Eh, Georgia sounds more ‘European’. Imagine getting in ‘Europe’ and NATO with an unpronounceable name for Anglos like Sakartvelo.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  265. Seraphim says:
    @Jaakko Raipala

    You sound like a ‘self-hating’ Estonian?, Finn?

  266. Gerard2 says:
    @Seraphim

    Eh, Georgia sounds more ‘European’. Imagine getting in ‘Europe’ and NATO with an unpronounceable name for Anglos like Sakartvelo

    It’s not your fault….but who cares? As a state it’s a joke in which the presidential elections are held between a French lady and a Russian citizen ( I seem to be the only person bemused that Romania has a german as President), a huge proportion of their people work and live in Russia, a huge proportion of their economy relies on Russian tourists and Russian gas….and they are “great” at exporting their criminals to Russia.

    Now don’t get me wrong….unlike Ukraine, Gruzians are an actual country and culture and people….no dispute…….but all of that is still intrinsically connected to Russia on all levels….and their state apparatus are a disgrace

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Seraphim
  267. @Gerard2

    Arguably, Ukraine has more cultural achievements than Georgia, at least as far as literature is concerned, although it does not have its own unique alphabet. Georgian “leaders” (all foreigners, there you are right) make all sorts of silly noises, but they made travel for Russians visa-free, even though Georgia does not have diplomatic relations with Russia since 2008. That’s the first and only example in human history.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  268. Seraphim says:
    @Gerard2

    The ‘German’ President of Romania is a ‘Sas’. They are Romanian citizens for exactly 100 years and have the same political rights as all Romanians.
    As an aside, Romanians know that Georgian/Gruzin/Iverians are an actual country and culture, that they appreciate. One of the beloved ‘Romanian’ saints and Neo-Martyr was Antim Ivireanul (ანთიმოზ ივერიელი)/Antimoz Iverieli, Metropolitan of Ungrovlahia (1708-1716), an active promoter of Romanian language and culture.
    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in… Russian shops. In the old times they used to love the ‘gruzin’ films (as well as the ‘gruzinski tchai’, imported from Russia, naturally).

  269. @Anon

    But the main UK island calls itself “Great Britain”, so whatever.

    This is because Brittany is ‘Little Britain’.

    In French Great Britain is Grande Bretagne while Brittany is Bretagne. In German Great Britain is Großbritannien while Brittany used to be Kleinbritannien.

    Just how like Małopolska and Wielkopolska are territorial designations.

    This is not like what East Asians used to do.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  270. AP says:
    @Epigon

    It is not very rewarding to test Y-DNA of long deceased people to find relation to modern populations. A lot has happened in both northern Russia and Sweden since 8th-9th century.

    Modern Rurikids match DNA of their ancestors, and match those of people from the Roslagen region of Sweden.

    Besides, even if the modern Swedes in that location and Rurikids share a male ancestor, it doesn’t prove a Sweden-descended/Norman military elite subjugated Slavic and Finnic tribes of Rus’.

    It’s just another piece of the puzzle. The Rurikids kept hiring Scandinavian tutors for their kids, kept bringing back wives from Scandinavia, Vladimir seized the throne with Norse warriors he recruited while living in Norway, etc. My own paternal ancestors were Varangians by family legend, and DNA suggests they were from Norway.

  271. Beckow says:
    @AnonFromTN

    …they made travel for Russians visa-free, even though Georgia does not have diplomatic relations with Russia since 2008. That’s the first and only example in human history.

    The only other case I can think off is Cuba with US: no visas needed, but a slightly different dynamic.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  272. AP says:
    @Beckow

    You completely missed the point of the comparison.

    • Replies: @Beckow
    , @Thulean Friend
  273. They’re obsessed – obsessed! – over naming conventions for their countries and cities in foreign languages.

    And it works, at least among the English-speaking. Even though neither Russian nor Ukrainian has articles at all. In other words, they don’t know what they’re talking about.

    I think it’s dumb that Russians say Tshicago, when they have the proper initial consonant in their own language. (Mexicans don’t, so they have an excuse.) But there’s no urge to take them to task on it. Is anything important said about Chicago in Russian?

    Do Argentines get worked up when someone plays “Tangerine” on the radio? (“…across the Argentine”)

    Then there’s O Brasil and La France

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  274. @Thorfinnsson

    …Napoleon, Hitler, and the European Union.

    Not the most reassuring examples!

  275. @Beckow

    You are right. I don’t know much about travel to Cuba with the US passport. I know that Americans usually travel there through Mexico or some other Latin American country, all of which have diplomatic relations with Cuba and direct flights to Havana.

    I also know that real cigar connoisseurs only smoke Havana cigars, which are illegal in the US. So, most tobacco places in sane countries catering to the American tourists have fake Costa-Rica labels for them.

  276. songbird says:

    Is Singapore a real country? It is very famous and economically successful. Doesn’t have any oil. Only natural resource is its location and anchorage.

    On the other hand, could it exist without China anymore than HK or Macau? It is a massive population sink. Needs to be sustained by Chinese immigration.

    And does it have a culture? I’ve known Singaporeans who virtue signal about their diversity, believing they are a morally superior country to the US because they don’t have any trouble with poor blacks. Somehow the Chinese have cleverly tricked them into being satisfied under their authoritarian rule. But at what price? The price of having no culture. and not much in the way of natural rights.

  277. @songbird

    Singapore is an oversized shopping mall more than a country. In many places you don’t have an exit from the metro station except via a shopping mall. The only bright spot is their Botanical Gardens, where you can see all sorts of beautiful orchids without being offered a shopping experience.

    However, it solved the issue of peaceful coexistence of different people admirably. Every sign everywhere is in four languages: English, Chinese, Malay, and Tamil, so nobody feels estranged. Another admirable thing is that not only they don’t require a visa from anyone, they don’t even charge a fee in lieu of visa, like Turkey.

    Can’t say anything abut their political rights, I was there as a tourist on my way to Malaysia.

  278. sean42 says:
    @songbird

    Let us have a debate here, are authoritarian regimes basically the only way that a country can avoid getting pozzed? And in order to continue to avoid getting sucked up on cultural degeneracy it needs to maintain an autocracy?

  279. @Seraphim

    ‘Sas’ is not an English word. Iohannis is a Saxon. Saxons are the Protestant variants of German pest.

    Catholic Swabians are equally common (or rather sparse, these day). The former royal family was Swabian.

    A smaller populations of Germs, this time migrating from Russia, became Romanian citizens when we acquired Dobruja. Dobruja changed hands a few times, so it’s unclear to me whether these interlopers were even Christians.

    Today, the German infection is, in a sense, worse than under von Mackensen or Hauffe. Everywhere you look there’s a flag of EUSSR, but Romania is not in Schengen. The criterion for accession to the common customs area was a secure the border. So, for twelve years, we paid billions to EADS (French-German) for electronic border protection. Twelve years later, the border is still good enough for Manfred Weber. Also today, I read on Deutsche Welle that “The hideous face of communism is alive and well in Romania”. WTF, we gave you billions, how much more do you want?

    Btw, the most common ancestry in US is German. At least Brits come with the guns, and the French usually leave. But Germans are white Gyppos.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @RadicalCenter
  280. songbird says:
    @sean42

    For me, the answer involves more questions.

    What is the starting point? Uninhabited island or planet, where you chose the colonists? Or existing country? How “enriched?”. Can you change a form or government without revolution? ( I suspect the answer is no)

    Is it possible to make a constitution which is functional for a certain people? With checks and balances against diversity? A primary acknowledgement of the differences between people and the perils of equating everyone? Is a real democracy possible – for a people? Relying on technology for some of its checks? (Maybe, but with doubt. Irish constitution denotes it as a Christian country – does not prevent Muslim and Hindu colonists)

    Is there a way to build a stable TFR constitutionally? I suspect that one secret to controlling Poz would be exiling the crazies to a population sink, instead of allowing them to import high TFR poz-inducing groups. maybe, you’d need to draft the pols too. I think you’d have to try to build merit into the system. Minimize the influence of ivory towers by not allowing colleges to grow too much.

    • Replies: @sean42
    , @dfordoom
  281. @Jaakko Raipala

    “ancient Estonians ruled the world but this knowledge has been suppressed by occupiers”

    Do such idiocies exist in Estonia? I thought it was unique to Hungary.

    • Replies: @Jaakko Raipala
  282. sean42 says:
    @songbird

    I was talking about Spain, Franco was able to run a tight ship as long as he was still around, but things started to fall apart in his last years, and fell apart completely when he died after just a few years, which makes me extremely pessimistic that you can keep out moral decadence while avoiding an autocracy of some sort, maybe we need a reincarnation of Philip II, and keep him in the God Emperor’s throne to keep him alive forever?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @songbird
  283. @Reg Cæsar

    Russians say Tshicago, when they have the proper initial consonant in their own language

    Hungarians, too, and we also have the proper initial consonant in our own language. It’s just custom. It also sounds idiotic when someone wants to pronounce it too close to the English pronunciation while speaking Hungarian, it smacks of snobbery.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  284. @sean42

    The issue is that the richest (big) country in the world is the epicenter of the Poz. This country also has a talent for entertainment, making it even cooler than wealth alone could explain. It’s going to pull everything in its orbit, because people are natural cargo cultists and assume that everything they can see in a rich and cool country is worth emulating. It either needs to get its shit together and destroy the Poz from within, or get destroyed itself, or else the Poz will keep running strong.

    • Replies: @sean42
  285. @Colin Wright

    The Greeks are descendants of the Ancient Hellenes. It’s just a fact. There could be Nordicist fantasies about the ancient Hellenes being Nordics, but recent genetic studies have confirmed that the Greeks are the closest present population to them.

    Regarding Macedonians, the ancient ones were closely related to the Hellenes, but the present ones are more closely related to the other ancient Balkan populations, which were relatively distinct from Greeks.

    By the way, is Hungarian the only language where the ancient and present Macedonians have different names? “Makedón” for the ancient ones and “macedón” (the c pronounced as ts) for the present ones.

  286. sean42 says:
    @reiner Tor

    The biggest problem is the the US is a Christian country, and unlike Judaism or Islam, there really is not much Biblical basis for the establishment of a theocracy, Habsburg Spain notwithstanding. I know a thoecratic or ceasaropapic lite US would have its own issues, but are still much better than the debased culture that you see now.

  287. Seraphim says:
    @Dacian Soros

    No, it’s not an English word, that’s why I put it in quotation marks. It is, as you know, the Romanian word for the ‘German’ population of Transylvania.
    He is from Sibiu, where the first ‘hospites’ brought by the Hungarian kings, were ‘flandrenses’, flemish, ‘floandări’.

  288. @Thulean Friend

    “Next year it is election season. It is amusing to see Pappu and Modi Kaka trying to outdo themselves in farm loan waivers. Just today Gujarat went one step beyond and announced electricity bill waivers for the rural countryside”

    That is the basic flaw of one man one vote democracy which is why it is (thankfully) in retreat everywhere.In every democracy politicians will promise voters goodies from the public purse..money that they did not earn and could almost always be used in more productive ways(Infrastructure,R&D Expenditure etc.).

    The important thing is in India there is not (yet) Latin American levels of fiscal irresponsibility and it isn’t as bad.Also being resource poor politicians don’t have a resource sale largess to squander at the end of the day Indian state revenue is from taxation of a productive non resource extraction economy and the key players of this non resource extraction economy(Ambani, Tata, Birla etc.) also finance the political class.

    Farm loan waivers are in per capita terms a rounding error compared to per capita goodie distribution via the welfare state in modern economies.Its regrettable but not catastrophic.

  289. @reiner Tor

    The so called Makedonski have no relation whatsoever with the ancient Macedonians. The Kingdom of Macedonia’s original heartland was the Macedonian plain and the Saronic gulf. Both areas were still majority Greek by the 20th century. “Macedonia” in Ottoman times didn’t designate historic Macedonia but the Macedonian Sanjak. The Macedonian Sanjak en-globed many inland regions that weren’t part of historic Macedonia and were populated by southern Slavs. The so called makedonski claim that they are entitled to all of Greek Macedonia due to the fact that the region that the ottomans called Macedonia had a Slavic plurality. The Vardar region which comprises modern day FYROM’s territory was part of Paeonia. The Paeonians were a non Greek people (probably Thracian )that were enemies of Macedonia and were eventually conquered by Philip II. The genetic ancestry of modern day Slavic “Macedonians” is thus Slavic and Balkanoid but probably devoid of greek admixture due to the fact that Greeks never inhabited the region.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  290. @Dmitry

    “Goy” is an insult, as you know full well. Ask your parents and grandparents what the word “bydlo” really signifies.

    who thinks Kant writes nonsense

    That’s a sane and normal position. Kant did, indeed, write nonsense.

    …and that Kant (a German who has been in the Russian Empire only 4 years of his 79 year life) was a traitor, who begged for a university job

    The admiral never said that Kant was a traitor to Russia. Specifically, he said that Kant “betrayed his homeland”. Kant’s homeland wasn’t Russia.

    Learn some basic literacy and critical thinking before throwing around Jewish racist insults.

    P.S. Why is that the most toxic and arrogant Jews are always the dumbest? Rest assured, if some putz is screeching about ‘cattle’, ‘subhumans’ and Jewish racial supremacy, then he’s an 80-IQ retard in real life.

    This admiral’s job has nothing to do with philosophy or history, and yet he seems to know much more about Kant’s biography that you do.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  291. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Ivan Franko, Taras Shevchenko, Lesya Ukrainka,…

  292. @reiner Tor

    Oh no, Finland and Estonia have a very similar mini-industry of people who try to prove that the Finno-Ugric theory is a hoax promoted by Swedes and/or Russians.

    Most people will easily believe that Finno-Ugric languages are a thing (we can recognize some words of Mari, Mordvin etc) but the sticking point is the idea that the original Finno-Ugric homeland is on the Volga river which is *in Russia*. It does not help to point out that this would have been long before Russia existed. A lot of Estonians and Finns will just instinctively assume that it’s all a plot to turn us into Russians and their brain shuts down.

    Also, politics of the interwar era over here had a big culture war between Finns and Swedes over who gets to be the favorite of Germany and the Swedes considered the eastern origins of Finns one of their big propaganda weapons. There definitely was a Swedish plot to ruin the racial reputation of Finns in Nazi era Germany and there’s a set of Finns who think it’s all still secretly going on.

    So there’s a market for “dissident intellectuals” who propose alternatives to the Volga homeland that aren’t in Russia and if their theories don’t get support in academia they can just explain it as a conspiracy of Swedish Nazis or Russian agents since a whole lot of people already believe in scheming Swedish Nazis and Russian agents.

    Of course these dissidents tend to overshoot their goals and the alternative theories frequently turn into ancient Estonians discovering America and the like. The most common ones insist that we are the pre-Indo-European Western Europeans and that there are FU languages on the Volga only because ancient Finns migrated towards the east. The less common ones are the ones who try to connect us to the Far East, usually to the Mongols or the Japanese since they once kicked Russian ass. We had a few people selling the Sumerian stuff, too, but they’re dead now.

  293. @Hyperborean

    Furthermore, the Little and Great designations relate to distance from Rome/Byzantium. Little Russia, Great Russia, same for Poland as observed. Asia Minor is a well-known case.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
  294. @songbird

    Singapore is definitely not a real country, though it’s an interesting experiment.

    They’re succumbing to the poz now as it is. The current ruler is not up to the standard of his father.

    And in any case Singapore’s government is overrated. The Central Provident Fund (worse run than Malaysia’s equivalent if you can believe it) and Temasek are both corrupt jokes, and the government respects its subjects so little that they raise the price of electricity and blame it on the oil price (Singapore uses LNG for generation, not oil).

    Also worth asking how much of Singapore’s success owes to the same thing Hong Kong owed its success to (British legacy, Chinese population) rather than enlightened despotism.

  295. @Vishnugupta

    The same applies to Turkey. Both countries prospered during the oil spike despite having no oil. They are going to outstrip then world now, even China.

  296. @sean42

    Extreme localism/subsidiarity may be another way, as the costs of catering to untermenschen more greatly strain local resources.

    But it doesn’t look good. In any system where legitimacy is conferred by elections, there’s an incentive baked into the cake to expand the franchise as widely as possible…including beyond the country’s boundaries. And the population of people who should not vote mostly always exceeds the population that should.

    • Replies: @songbird
  297. Gerard2 says:
    @Seraphim

    The ‘German’ President of Romania is a ‘Sas’. They are Romanian citizens for exactly 100 years and have the same political rights as all Romanians.
    As an aside, Romanians know that Georgian/Gruzin/Iverians are an actual country and culture, that they appreciate. One of the beloved ‘Romanian’ saints and Neo-Martyr was Antim Ivireanul (ანთიმოზ ივერიელი)/Antimoz Iverieli, Metropolitan of Ungrovlahia (1708-1716), an active promoter of Romanian language and culture.
    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in… Russian shops. In the old times they used to love the ‘gruzin’ films (as well as the ‘gruzinski tchai’, imported from Russia, naturally).

    Thanks for that….very interesting. I knew about exactly 0% of those things in your post ,before I read it

  298. OT

    The Hungarian military is expanding. We already have a dozen Gripen fighter jets. We just bought a few dozens of helicopters, and today they announced that we’re leasing a dozen Leopard2A4 tanks, to help with training – because we’ll buy 44 Leopard2A7 (or A7+?) tanks, and 22 PzH 200 self-propelled guns. Plans are to expand our tank force to 150 tanks, with the other 100 being modern version T-72s (probably Czech or maybe Polish versions). We’ll probably buy some American artillery pieces and air defense systems. And now there are some rumors of an expansion of the air force, even a trebling is not out of the question.

    I can now hardly wait the coming Third World War, where – after a short and easy victorious campaign – we’d finally be able to establish the Hungarian-Japanese border in the Far East. The only issue remaining – shall we return those islands to the Japanese?

  299. @reiner Tor

    Reiner Tor, since you are Hungarian and seem to possess some decent historical knowledge, I would be interested in hearing about your opinions/evaluation of Admiral Horthy.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  300. @Hyperborean

    Horthy grabbed power through violence, but those were violent times, so that’s okay. He was okay as a national leader, especially since initially he picked the right guys to run the show (especially prime minister Count Bethlen, who stayed as one of his most trusted advisers even in the 1930s-40s, when he was no longer prime minister), and he didn’t do much. However, in the 1930s he had some less fortunate picks, and at first he was too slow to correct course (for example he let Gömbös significantly change the composition of the governing party merely because Gömbös was already terminally ill, and he thought it’d be in bad taste to remove an ill person from office…), but overall, it was very difficult to do anything, and arguably until 1943 the course he chose was overall the best for the country. However, he was already too old, lost his favorite son (and intended successor), and was in general way over his head. His decisions in 1944 were obviously sub-optimal, and some simple changes (for example if he had resigned in March) would’ve made the situation much better.

    Also, in retrospect, his decisions before or early in the war could’ve been better. Both the Slovaks and the Romanians were prepared to give up ethnically Hungarian areas, but the Hungarian government wanted more, and managed to convince/pressure the Italians and Germans to accept the more excessive claims. (Though in Transylvania Hitler didn’t really give us what we wanted, the border was militarily impossible to defend.) As a result, neither of our neighbors accepted the new borders, and it was reversed after the war. Unlike in Dobruja where the Bulgarians managed to make the Romanians accept the new border, and it wasn’t reversed after the war.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  301. songbird says:
    @sean42

    I’ve heard it wasn’t long before they had softcore porn on TV. The change was so extreme people considered it an overreaction. Something that would not have happened without Franco.

    The surviving royals of Europe seem such a sorry, pozzed lot. I don’t have a lot of faith in monarchy – maybe that only happens in a constitutional system and Queen Elizabeth would be pushing people out of helicopters were it otherwise – I don’t know. But one problem is that you have regression towards the mean in any lineal system of succesion. I like to kick around the idea that a king could be bred to be both smart and to have solidarity with his people – to be conservative. But it would have to be a continued program of breeding – at least on the level of selecting a mate, if not greater.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  302. Ukrainian regime says it will once again attempt to break into Azov sea, “with participation of international community” (whatever that means).
    https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4650924.html

    Exactly the kind of accident they need to extend the martial law and delay presidential election, because Poroshenko is still polling horribly.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  303. Beckow says:
    @AP

    …You completely missed the point of the comparison

    Intentionally. What I said about India cannot be said often enough…

    (Or am I again in your feverish mind ‘lying‘?)

    • Replies: @AP
  304. @reiner Tor

    That’s a large shopping list for such a puny military budget – $1.21 billion in 2017. A single American fighter jet will cost you $100 million, and I’m talking about F-16, not F-35. And don’t even think about modern air-defense systems – this stuff is w-way out of your league!

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @dfordoom
    , @Dmitry
  305. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @Max Payne

    In the interest of culinary accuracy, Israeli couscous – the large diameter kind where semolina is rolled into a white sticky sphere – was invented by an Israeli industrial food lab in 1954. There is absolutely nothing “Palestinian” about it, and to call it ‘Palestinian couscous’ is stupid and inaccurate.

    Also, quick, which do you think is the original name: Yerushalayim or Al Quds?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  306. Beckow says:
    @reiner Tor

    …Both the Slovaks and the Romanians were prepared to give up ethnically Hungarian areas

    That is theoretically true, but in practise the precise borders were going to be an unsolvable issue. The side that has the upper hand always overreaches (it is same elsewhere like Ukr-Polish border or Polish-German). Horthy would not last in 1938 if he was reasonable, there was euphoria, he had to go along.

    In WWII, there were collaborating states (Hungary, Romania, Croatia, Slovakia, Western Ukraine, Baltic states, Finland, Bulgaria, even Austria) and there were completely suppressed states (Poland, Czech, Serbia, Belarus). It was a no-win situation, Germans were too dominant and this was the ‘lebesnraum‘. Even if people didn’t quite believe in ‘1000 year reich‘, most thought that it would last much longer.

    Hungary’s big problem is that they are never able to read the geography correctly. Instead of living with the realities of Carpathian basin, they repeatedly dream big. Horthy was swept by it too.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  307. Art Deco says:

    Greece’s kvetching over Macedonia is 100x as obnoxious as the matter which has come to your attention.

    I assume referring to a republic with 42 million residents as a ‘fake’ country is battlespace preparation for a Russian invasion you’re hoping for. You’ll deserve to have your ass handed to you.

  308. @Felix Keverich

    The shopping list is for the next several years. Military budget is set to double over the next few years. It’s easy to double, if it’s only 1% of GDP.

    So don’t yet worry, we won’t conquer Russia until maybe 2025.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  309. @reiner Tor

    By the way, is Hungarian the only language where the ancient and present Macedonians have different names?

    In German it’s distinguished as well:
    Ancient Macedon (and the present-day Greek territory) is Makedonien.
    The ex-Yugoslav republic is Mazedonien.
    Seems quite similar to the Hungarian usage.

  310. @Felix Keverich

    It’s the kind of stuff that could start ww3.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  311. @reiner Tor

    “By 2026 we will could reach 2 percent (of GDP)” is what your defence minister said and it’s likely BS. DNR has much stronger military at this point.

    It’s the kind of stuff that could start ww3.

    Turchinov clarified that they will invite OSCE officials to their boats next time. So probably no ww3, but just enough tension to prolong the martial law.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  312. @Seraphim

    Many Romanians delight in the Saperavi wines, that they can find in… Russian shops.

    Let me guess, “Berezka”? 🙂 We have the same chain here too. I actually bought a bottle of Saperavi Kvevri from there once and wasn’t too impressed, and one of these days I’ll try the Moldovan and the Armenian brandy they offer too, if I can force myself to buy something different than Courvoisier once for a change.
    Personally my favorite thing about Georgia is their alphabet, aesthetic as fuck.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  313. @DFH

    Congratulations, you continually miss the point. Here’s the part you left out of your quote:

    I would also change India to Bharat even in English. Hindustan is sometimes used in Hindi (both of those words are also imported/have their roots from foreign muslim rulers).

    The line denotes the argument that quality, and not just quantity, matters. Core words in Hindi – including the name of the language itself! – is foreign. To my mind, neither French or Greek can claim that kind of domination over English. Therefore, the reductionist interpretation is exactly the wrong way to understand it. Not that it didn’t prevent you from drawing the wrong conclusion – repeatedly.

    If you are too dumb to understand something, it’s better to pipe down than to double down and just make yourself look even dumber.

  314. @The Big Red Scary

    Kant remains a great thinker, but he is still seminal only in few areas left- ethics, aesthetics, political theory. His epistemology & similar fields are superseded by later developments of physics, mathematics & cognitive psychology (brain imaging etc.). Many of his most analyzed topics are now dated (sense, perception, phenomena, noumena,..).

    Just, this is the case with most philosophers. Those who are still worth reading basically offer a myth, some great vision of life & cosmos not, in most cases, susceptible to analysis or scientific verification. Other than that, apart from ethics/religious thought/aesthetics/political “science”- fundamental philosophical concepts, both East & West (mind, perception, karma, Being, essence, existence, senses, innate ideas, free will, reason, spirit, soul, ..) are, at best, just fruitful metaphors.

    Not that there is anything wrong with that….

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  315. @AP

    Maybe he and DFH are twins.

  316. @reiner Tor

    We already have a dozen Gripen fighter jets

    Really jealous of you, we seem to be going for the F-16s for the air force rearmament, which are an inferior offer for the money in every way.

    We’ll probably buy some American artillery pieces and air defense systems.

    Actually not so jealous anymore, the F-16s may be terribly overpriced but they are still at least somewhat useful, unlike American air defense or antediluvian contraptions like the Paladin howitzers.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  317. @Vishnugupta

    In every democracy politicians will promise voters goodies from the public purse

    The quality of the people is more important than the system. China has an authoritarian system yet makes it work somewhat well whereas try doing that in resource-poor countries in LatAm or MENA. Or South Asia.

    Also being resource poor politicians don’t have a resource sale largess to squander

    Sure… but aren’t Indian politicians some of the richest in any democracy? I’ve read somewhere that members of the Rajya Sabha have a higher net worth than the US senate.

    the key players of this non resource extraction economy(Ambani, Tata, Birla etc.) also finance the political class.

    Correct me if I am wrong on this one, but didn’t the NDA government pass a finance law as a ‘money bill’, where they made corporate donations basically anonymous? I remember reading about it. This is organised corruption, though we see it in the US as well.

    Farm loan waivers are in per capita terms a rounding error compared to per capita goodie distribution via the welfare state in modern economies.Its regrettable but not catastrophic.

    Not all welfare is bad. Giving gas LPG connections to poor families is a net positive, especially when linked to Aadhar because it reduces pollution, some of it may be deadly, from cooking when using more primitive methods.

    And while farm loan waivers are still not very numerous, their popularity are increasing. Don’t forget that in many cases, the PSU banks are already saddled with weak balancesheets and they get hammered even more, because politicians use them as tools to lend even more and forgive old loans, thereby increasing the NPA share. And it is moving beyond just farm loans, as the case in Gujarat exemplifies.

  318. Dmitry says:
    @anonymous coward

    Anonymous Coward what’s your nationality?

    1. You say you are not American.

    2. You are not Russian (or from a Russian speaking country) – you don’t understand common insults in the language, their meaning, context. And you wrote strange misconceptions on other topics.

    3. You are likely not Jewish, as you are exhibiting a negative obsession with Jews.

    So, what are you? Canadian?

    “Goy” is an insult, as you know full well.

    It means (the word “nation” followed by absence of designations “holy” or “chosen”) “non-Jew”.

    Whether you view it is an implicit insult, it will depend on attitude of speaker to non-Jews.

    Ask your parents and grandparents what the word “bydlo” really signifies.

    I’m writing this for others who might be interested in the topic.

    Word enters Russian from Polish,”cattle”.

    In Russian, it is used as an insult from around 1860s, as derogatory insult of the lower classes.

    As an insult, this term for cattle be seen used from the second half of 19th century (1860s-1870s) in writers such as Gleb Uspensky, Tsensky, Krestovsky, Nikolai Leskov, Aleksey Pisemsky, etc.

    In their usage of cattle, can be seen from context the connotations of “group thinking”, “vulgarity”, etc.

    But when they were using it from the late 19th century, it would have been more fresh and less cliche, than today

    The admiral never said that Kant was a traitor to Russia. Specifically, he said that Kant “betrayed his homeland”. Kant’s homeland wasn’t Russia

    You are in some kind of competition with yourself to be wrong in every detail

    Admiral says Kant betrays his motherland, humiliates himself, and begs on the knees for a university position.

    He’s talking Kant’s attempt to become professor and subsequent appointment by Kingdom of Prussia. This years after town was in Russian Empire (only 4 years – 1758-62).

    There’s no possible way Kant betrayed Germany/Prussia – but if you think he is Russian (as this illiterate admiral), then you would see Kant as betraying his motherland when he takes up a position with the Kingdom of Prussia.

    Kant did, indeed, write nonsense

    Because you are too stupid to understand something, does not mean it is “nonsense”, although may will appear as such to you.

    Learn some basic literacy and critical thinking before throwing around Jewish racist insults.

    Where are “Jewish racial insults”?

    P.S. Why is that the most toxic and arrogant Jews are always the dumbest? Rest assured, if some putz is screeching about ‘cattle’, ‘subhumans’ and Jewish racial supremacy, then he’s an 80-IQ retard in real life.

    Who is “screeching” Jewish racial supremacy?

    There is indication again, of some genuine mental illness in your comment.

    This admiral’s job has nothing to do with philosophy or history, and yet he seems to know much more about Kant’s biography that you do.

    Admiral thinks Kant was Russian. He knows not just less about Kant than me, but he doesn’t even understand the nationality of the greatest German philosopher.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  319. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    I think the most insulting one is “sheeple”. But you also need to combine with some concept of low class and swinish connotations.

    The funniest internet insults I’ve read here was from our friend Gerard (whatever he is calling AP every week).

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Gerard2
  320. Dmitry says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Kant remains a great thinker, but he is still seminal only in few areas left- ethics, aesthetics, political theory. His epistemology & similar fields are superseded by later developments of physics, mathematics & cognitive psychology

    How is he superseded by later developments of physics?

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions. It’s not a statement of “actual physics”, but of extent to which our knowledge can ever access it.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    , @utu
  321. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    What happened in Florida recently was disturbing: felons given the right by ballot initiative. Even if we say blacks made the difference – it was pretty close without blacks.

    But even so, it is a sham. Globalists hate primaries, even as they fight to expand the vote extranationally. Ballots are repeated until they get the right answer. Then they are never brought up again. Localism is plainly a virtue because they hate it.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @utu
  322. @songbird

    Americans are exceptionally hopeless here.

    Whenever the subject of voting comes up with anyone other than a machine politician, people immediately resort to grand principles rather than what actually matters–whom ballots are cast for.

    So with respect to felons, people state that they’ve paid their debt to society and thus should have their rights restored. This is an exceedingly stupid way to look at the issue.

  323. Not Raul says:
    @reiner Tor

    Why not just call the country Kartvelebia?

  324. @Felix Keverich

    Hungary is under serious pressure to increase defense spending. Since Orbán is constantly under pressure because of everything he does, he can ill afford to resist this pressure. Especially since apparently he’s using defense spending to appease his powerful western partners, which is to say, mostly the Germans and the French, but probably the Americans will follow, too.

    By the way, without looking it up, I’m pretty sure you seriously overestimate the cost of American fighter jets. The F-35 currently costs less than $100MM, so I don’t think the F-16 could cost that much. Maybe the new proposed version of the F-15, which would thus make little economic sense, so unlikely to go into production. The existing versions of F-15 must be cheaper, too.

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  325. @Dmitry

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions. It’s not a statement of “actual physics”, but of extent to which our knowledge can ever access it.

    This is trivial. Here is where he is dated:

    * he, of course, did not know about ways of cognition of other beings. For instance, it is scientifically established that rattlesnakes & frogs perceive the world “out there” in a different way. They all have their own cognitive “spaces” (it is impossible for any living being to envision anything without “space”. Even Dante’s immortal souls live in a sort of imagined hyper-space, since their situation is described as “beings” in “worlds”, i.e. spaces, never mind its dimensions. Even “time” in Dante’s worlds does exist, because one can, hypothetically, measure processes between his imagined events, however weird they may be). So, “space”- as “world outside of a being” & “time”- as duration of process- are universals of any cognition of any being, real or imaginary. Kant insisted that our 3-dimensional Euclidean space & conventional clock-time were human universals of cognition. But, they are universals of our perception- which is trivial, it was evident for everyone & anyone, including Papuans & Aborigines – while our cognition has gone beyond it with Einsteinian revolution. It doesn’t matter what we perceive in our ordinary waking consciousness; what matters is that we can not only imagine, but even construct multidimensional realities beyond 3 dimensions & measure what “really” happens, irrespective of our common-sense perception apparatus.

    * as for causality, it is mostly human (although many primates have rudiments of before>after, therefore cause>effect way of relating to world). Then again, quantum mechanics in various interpretations (Bohr, Heisenberg, Bohm, Everett, De Witt, Feynman,..) has dispensed with common-sense approach to reality & established new ways of describing the world, out-there & in-here (including probabilities & many worlds). Of course we still, in our everyday lives, perceive as we have always done, but our knowing of the world has been vastly enlarged.

    In short, I don’t see how this rather trivial things re our ordinary waking consciousness in relation to world “out there” (space, time, causality,..) are much relevant either with regard to scientific knowledge of the world (relativity, quantum physics,..), and let alone quasi supra-rational intuitive insights in the world (mystics of all times).

    • Replies: @Anon
  326. @Dmitry

    Where are “Jewish racial insults”?

    Like I said: ask your parents or your grandparents. They will enlighten you. Also they will explain to you how the word “bydlo” came about, why it’s wide-spread in Russia and why 90% of the time used by Jews, not Russians.

    Admiral says Kant betrays his motherland, humiliates himself, and begs on the knees for a university position.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nigsberg#Russian_Empire

    Konigsberg was at one time conquered by Elizabeth I and annexed to Russia.

    Kant wrote a letter to her, professing ‘undying loyalty’ and begging for a job. (She didn’t answer.)

    The admiral is referring to this incident, when Kant tried to turn coats and enter into Russian service, begging for a job. Look it up. Presumably you’re literate?

    Admiral thinks Kant was Russian.

    Of course not. Read his damn quote again. Unlike you, he isn’t some 80-IQ blowhard who can only parrot Jewish insults and hokhmes without even understanding them. He actually seems to know Kant’s biography and read some of his writings. (And he’s right, shit like the ‘categorical imperative’ is worthless and vile, crowleyism couched in obscurantist flim-flam, and Kant’s attempt to become a Russian subject to get another dude’s university chair is very bad character.)

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  327. Anon[599] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    It doesn’t matter what we perceive in our ordinary waking consciousness; what matters is that we can not only imagine, but even construct multidimensional realities beyond 3 dimensions & measure what “really” happens, irrespective of our common-sense perception apparatus.

    Bosh. We could and did always imagine what was “outside time”– that is also “trivial”. But if a philosophical argument is not based on what is “trivial” it is based on what is controversial, and that is a less fair basis. Though I’m not certain of the value of the structure Kant built.

  328. Russian stocks rally as US considers removing sanctions on Rusal company. But any softening Russia-related sanctions requires approval of Congress, so US Treasury Department is writing a letter to Mitch McConnell to see if he is ok with it.

  329. @reiner Tor

    US sells its weapons to allies at the price way above production costs. Slovakia recently ordered 14 F16 at the cost of $1,3 billion.

    https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/riat/2018/07/11/slovakia-selects-f-16-over-gripen-for-new-fighter/

    US “Patriot” air-defence system goes for over $10 billion, which is fucking insane, especially since it doesn’t even work!

    https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/12/06/poland-surprised-by-high-price-tag-for-its-long-awaited-patriot-purchase/

  330. Cyrano says:
    @Swarthy Greek

    You know who I blame for the current mess in the Balkans? I actually blame the brothers Serbs. They made the colossal stupidity of teaming up with the Greeks in the Balkan wars and stabbing their brothers Bulgarians in the back. The stupidest thing that any Slavic nation has ever done.

    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.

    My message to the brothers Serbs: ditch the Greeks – the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution. The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance.

    Despite all the grievances that Bulgarians have against the Serbs – they still respect them, where the Greeks only look for whom they can use next. Serbia tried to create Yugoslavia with the “brothers” Croats, that never worked out with those back-stabbers. Never mind the same language, Bulgarian and Serbian languages are close enough, they can understand each other. Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans. Don’t let the argument between 2 brothers benefit a useless 3rd party.

  331. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Beckow

    Hungary’s big problem is that they are never able to read the geography correctly. Instead of living with the realities of Carpathian basin, they repeatedly dream big. Horthy was swept by it too.

    He was a Hungarian based admiral, who (if I’m not mistaken) kept that title after the end of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    What you say about the Hungarians has been said of the Serbs as well. At issue, is being regionally stronger than some of your neighbors, while not being a major world power.

    • LOL: Thorfinnsson
  332. @Cyrano

    If it wasn’t for the Slavs, the Greeks would still be under Turkish boot, since you are neither smart enough, nor strong enough to liberate yourself on your own. Yet you have the gall to be disrespectful of the Slavs.

    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation

    Such an alliance would be a powerhouse on the Balkans.

    Like winning the Special Olympics

    • Agree: Swarthy Greek
    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @LH
  333. @Philip Owen

    LOL

    Philip is always here when you need a good laugh. Turkey will be the first emerging market that will enter a recession. The country’s economic growth for the last 15 years was due to a construction boom enabled by low interest rates. As soon as rates go up Turkey will go bankrupt.

  334. Cyrano says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation

    How? By publishing an article in Times?

    If you like the Greeks so much, why don’t you form an alliance with them. Then maybe you can go greek on each other.

    • Replies: @DFH
  335. DFH says:
    @Cyrano

    the more useless nation has never been invented by the evolution

    Is placing Greek contributions to the world against Serb ones really something you want to start?

  336. @DFH

    I think it’s obvious Cyrano is either a moron or a troll. Either way he’s not worth debating.

    • Agree: AP
  337. Anon[599] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    Metternich makes good points.

  338. @Cyrano

    “The only alliance that ever made sense in the Balkans is the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance.”
    That alliance would have been gold if it had been solid in the 20th century. Many opportunities have been lost already. Kosovo, Macedonia, Thrace, etc.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  339. @DFH

    Greeks have existed for a longer timespan than Serbs. Perhaps comparing Greek and Serbian contributions since 1000 AD would be more appropriate.

  340. @Felix Keverich

    The Poles bought some strange configuration, Romania spent significantly less. And Hungary is a significantly smaller country than either Romania or Poland, so we’d need fewer batteries and missiles.

    https://www.defensenews.com/land/2017/11/30/its-official-romania-signs-deal-to-bu-us-missile-defense-system/

    These procurements are also spread over many years, so you don’t have to compare them to one year’s budget (which, as I said, will be easily doubled – it’s not very difficult to double from 1% of GDP, and GDP will likely grow, too), for example the delivery of the new Leopard tanks will start sometime in 2020 or 2021. They have to be produced first, and we don’t have to pay the whole amount all at once in advance.

    I don’t know what the Slovak F-16 deal contains (maybe it includes weapons and similar items), though Gripens are usually cheaper. But even if we’re talking like 1.5 billion here, it’s not an impossibility. A more logical course would be to just buy more Gripens.

    All this discussion doesn’t matter much. After a few easy and victorious battles, our Leopard2A7+ Panzer will be rolling on Moscow’s streets in the victory parade. (There’s a distinct possibility that our glorious leaders have only arranged things for the parade. When they first bought the Gripens in the early 2000s, they forgot to buy the weapons for them, so for a while they had no air-to-air missiles, nor ground attack capabilities. But the victory parade will be glorious anyway, I can assure you! You can watch it in Moscow!)

  341. AP says:
    @Beckow

    You alternate between making mistakes, missing points, and lying.

  342. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    The funniest internet insults I’ve read here was from our friend Gerard (whatever he is calling AP every week).

    I wonder whether my internet stalker is an anti-Russian troll, or sincere.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  343. Thea says:

    Perhaps it is ever the fate of small countries to be swallowed up by empires. How long did it take certain former Soviet republics to join NATO? They know they can’t really exist as tiny, completely independent nations.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @Thorfinnsson
  344. Cyrano says:
    @Rattus Norwegius

    You are one smart Scandinavian. Unlike that Thorfinson character who thinks that everything that comes from US is gold. That’s why Scandinavia is going to multiculturalize itself to death.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  345. Epigon says:
    @DFH

    Why are you trying to insult a Bulgarian by ridiculing Serbs?

  346. Cyrano says:
    @DFH

    Yes I do. What has Greece ever contributed to this world except perversion? They even painted it on their stupid vases, man having sex with animals, homosexuality and so on.

    This is how smart the Greeks are: Up until the 20 century, they used to do each other – the rationale being that they wanted to marry virgins. Never mind that when the time came to marry those virgins, they were already f**gots. The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much. Go debate with someone similarly brain dead as you.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Reg Cæsar
    , @Gerard2
  347. Epigon says:
    @Cyrano

    Serbs didn’t team with Greeks.
    Serbs didn’t even decide for themselves in any of the wars, as evidenced by London conference drawing the 1912-1913 war outcome,
    or Versailles victors dictating/imposing the disgusting Yugoslavia,
    or Great powers calling up 1878 Berlin congress to draw borders in the Balkans and 1908 award of Bosnia&Herzegovina to Austro-Hungary.

    Serbs were a sabot thrown into the gears of German/Continental hegemony machine, and expended carelessly after being manipulated by coups and revolutions controlled from the well-known power centres.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  348. Art Deco says:
    @Thea

    NATO is not an empire.

    • Replies: @Anon
  349. @Dacian Soros

    Sadly, there’s no way that the most common ancestry in the USA is still German. It would likely be Mexican.

    German may still be the most common WHITE EUROPEAN ancestry in the US.

  350. @Cyrano

    You are one smart Scandinavian. Unlike that Thorfinson character who thinks that everything that comes from US is gold. That’s why Scandinavia is going to multiculturalize itself to death.

    Of course Thorfinnson thinks that, he is an American, albeit of Swedish descent.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  351. Anon[599] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco

    Neither was the Delian league.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  352. Epigon says:
    @Anon

    Nor the Roman Republic.
    It only had military allies, “liberated” regions, intervened in foreign and civil wars.
    And stayed.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  353. @Spisarevski

    American air defense systems have a bad reputation here at Unz, but they are actually not worthless. It’s not like the Russian S-400 (S-300 PMU3, it was renamed for marketing reasons) has proved itself in battle. The Patriot was originally designed against aircraft, not ballistic missiles, and it’s questionable if anything works well against ballistic missiles. Also, the Americans usually keep the names, while the Russians rename everything after a few modifications, so while you are talking about “the” Patriot (in reality three generations of the system), after a while the most modern of the various S-300 versions was renamed the S-400. The difference between the S-300 PM2 and the PMU3 (a.k.a. S-400) is probably smaller than the difference between the PM2 and the early versions of the S-300. The Americans have the F-16 Block 70, while the latest version of the Su-27 is the Su-35. To be sure, the Su-35 is quite different from the Su-30 or earlier Su-27 variants, but the same is true of the F-16 Block 70 and some early F-16A.

    The howitzer we’ll buy (according to rumors) is the M777, a towed artillery piece. It’s probably as good as any, maybe overpriced (as American weapons often are).

  354. Seraphim says:
    @Spisarevski

    Yes, Berezka.
    Try the Moldovan brandy.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  355. DFH says:
    @Cyrano

    The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much

    Just when I thought that I had seen every variety of anti-Angloism

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  356. @reiner Tor

    Hungarians, too, and we also have the proper initial consonant in our own language. It’s just custom. It also sounds idiotic when someone wants to pronounce it too close to the English pronunciation while speaking Hungarian, it smacks of snobbery.

    But don’t Hungarians always put a strong stress on the first syllable, like their distant Finnish cousins, and Czech and Slovak neighbors? That would sound doubly weird.

  357. Ergo for Czechia low-peddling its transition from the Czech Republic. Czechia is simply more accurate.

    “Czechia” is so ugly, they refuse to use it in their own language. So why should we use it in ours?

    You can’t even say that about “Belarus” and “Myanmar”.

    What was wrong with Bohemia and Moravia, very beautiful names?

    As for (the) Ukraine, it could be solved quite easily in English by going back to “Little Russia”.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    , @AnonFromTN
  358. Seraphim says:
    @Epigon

    The ‘Yugoslav Committee’ formed by South Slavs from Austria-Hungary during World War I aimed at joining the existing south Slavic nations in an independent state was created by Croats, only two Serbs from Bosnia-Herzegovina.
    Serbians were a ‘sabot thrown’ into the Austrian-Hungarian hegemony machine.
    Germany was less enthusiastic to get into the morass of Balkanic policies. Bismarck remained famous for his pronouncements: “The Balkans “were not worth the bones of a Pomeranian grenadier.”, because, as the real-politician that he was, he was aware that: “One day the great European War will come out of some damned foolish thing in the Balkans (1888)”. Bismarck was actually warning Austria not to go to war with Russia over the Balkans.
    Germany made the foolish thing not to heed the advise of Bismarck.

    • Replies: @DFH
  359. @Cyrano

    The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos…

    To sell tickets to see the Elgin marbles?

    Heinrich Schliemann wasn’t an “Anglo”. Hell, nobody is an “Anglo”.

    The word is Angle.

    Take a flight on Anthony Burgess’s Loftangle:

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  360. DFH says:
    @Seraphim

    So which Serb was forcing the Kaiser and Bethmann-Hollweg to give a blank cheque to the Austrians?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  361. Gerard2 says:
    @Cyrano

    Yes I do. What has Greece ever contributed to this world except perversion? They even painted it on their stupid vases, man having sex with animals, homosexuality and so on.

    This is how smart the Greeks are: Up until the 20 century, they used to do each other – the rationale being that they wanted to marry virgins. Never mind that when the time came to marry those virgins, they were already f**gots. The whole Greek contribution to civilization was invented by the Anglos – because they hate the Slavs so much. Go debate with someone similarly brain dead as you.

    I don’t agree 100% with your comment……but your post is the very essence of intelligence. Fantastically put together and well substantiated

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  362. Art Deco says:
    @Epigon

    American troops in Germany number about 34,000. That would suffice to occupy the Ruhr complex if the troop force was arrayed as an occupying army and the locals were recalcitrant. There are about 12,000 troops in Italy. That would do to occupy Turin and Genoa. There are about 8,500 American troops in Britain, adequate to occupy Leeds. There are about 3,200 American troops in Spain, enough to occupy Bilbao. There’s your empire.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  363. Syagrius says:
    @Philip Owen

    This is just a question, because I don’t know how grammatical Ukrainian differs from grammatical Russian (quite aside from vocabulary, idiom, etc.)

    My wife and I hosted a girl from SE Ukraine for a year; she was by temperament and culture a Russian, who seemed to resent the artificialities of her mandated ‘Ukrainian’ schooling – reading Gogol and Pushkin in Ukrainian translations, for example – whose English was very good indeed, except the “the”… she never got the hang of its use, and I thought it was endearing and cute. We even stopped using it ourselves with her, at least sometimes, as an endearment.

    So the question is this: Is ‘Ukraine’ a “correct” translation, that is, a culturally-sensitive awareness of the lack of the definite article, or is it an insult to be avoided, like blackface or wearing a sombrero?

    We live in complicated times. But as that Ukrainian/Russian girl ate us out of house and home for a year, I think I deserve an answer.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Philip Owen
  364. Art Deco says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    “As for (the) Ukraine, it could be solved quite easily in English by going back to “Little Russia”.”

    Why? To please butt-hurt Russian nationalists?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  365. Cyrano says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    The word is Angle.

    Is playing a flute you favourite pastime? Under what Angle do you usually perform your hobby?

    https://quipvid.com/watch/VU48MIgi

  366. @AnonFromTN

    I had that first, dude. Though surely multiple someones thought of it before me.

  367. utu says:
    @songbird

    In Europe in many countries elections are held in prisons and even in psychiatric hospitals and all those who did not have their civil rights suspended can vote. In the US elections should be held in jails for all those who are awaiting trials before being convicted. Ex convicts should have had a right to vote. I am pretty sure that if the issue was posed to the Supreme Court the issue would be resolved in favor of ex convicts because I doubt that suspension of civil rights can be made for life. But the issue was not challenge because nobody cares about criminals and no politician would dare to stand for it.

    • Replies: @songbird
  368. @Art Deco

    How many white soldiers and administrators did Britain have in India?

    Don’t be intentionally dense.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  369. Syagrius says:

    The insistence on French language and nomenclature for everything in Quebec supports this notion of the fake and the gay. Were such edicts issued in, say, Nebraska, we’d call this ‘redneckistan’.

    Globalism suffers from a cancer of its heart. It wants diversity if and only if said diversity breaks the natural bonds of normal activity among free people. The encouragement of French in Quebec was always about disrupting Canadian unity, and now that the québecois are showing some defiance to globalism, having become the very ‘redneckquois’ envisioned by Justin Trudeau’s dad, the globalist masters – Justin among them – are losing patience. It’s like when the Scots started to get sensitive about being referred to as British in the 1980s, and when the Catalans decided they weren’t Spanish any more. This is all guided from above, from globalists who see regional antipathy as useful to the crack-up of nation states. It’s why the EU supports (for instance) Scottish “independence” but fights to the death English “independence”.

  370. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Kant argues space, time, causality, etc, as we can understand them, will always be (although the most fundamental and ineliminable) modes of our perceptions.

    The reductive materialists probably like “szopen”, “AK” and all those big on evolution, IQism and so on have no problem eliminating the higher form of reality that Kant dealt with by casting it to the category of mere epiphenomenon that does not matter. But their position on the issue can be easily change by shoving a hot iron up to their asses. You would see how quickly they would stop disassociating themselves with the so-called epiphenomenon.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  371. @Reg Cæsar

    Many Russians would object. The prevailing attitude is “thank goodness they are not brothers – we’d be ashamed to have brothers like that”.

  372. Syagrius says:
    @Colin Wright

    Well, there it is. It’s “The Ukraine”. But it isn’t also “The Russia”, or is it? One hears from time to time “The Belarus”. Where does this need for the definite article – demonstrating one’s respect for the nations in question – end? At least in communist times there was no confusion; it wasn’t “Back in USSR”, “Long Live Soviet Union!” and such like.

    None of this should surprise even a casual student of language. France isn’t ‘France’, but ‘La France’. Thus “Vive la France!”. Have we been disrespecting France (sorry, la France) all these centuries?

  373. utu says:

    I have a good news for the proud representatives of the fake and gay countries who are getting on with their really productive discussion here. You, the guys from Balkan, Ukrainians and some butt-hurt Russians are not alone. You will be happy to know that at another thread at UR a Dutchman and a Frenchman are swinging at each other as we speak. The good news for you, though not for the world unfortunately, is that a stupidity is not just limited to the Eastern Europe. You are not alone.

    I may go there and ask them about their national dogs or something so I could instigate them to see if they can reach your level.

    And, I almost forgot, great thanks to AK for running this experiment that definitively demonstrated that nationalists in Europe can’t unify to face greater threats common to all of them. Just like the Dutch of 16 century: Liever Turks dan Paaps. Divide et impera will always work with fools.

    • LOL: AP
  374. @Syagrius

    Following English grammar, it could be either. We say the US, the USSR, the Ottoman Empire, but France and Germany go without “the”.

    Ukraine is not a translation, it is the original word, meaning “borderlands” or “outskirts” in both Russian and Polish, as the original Ukrainian territory (the one Bogdan Khmelnitsky joined to the Russian Empire, about one sixth of the current territory, the rest being gifted by tsars, Lenin, and Stalin; Crimea given by Khrushchev in 1954 went back to its rightful owners in 2014) was exactly that between Russia and Poland.

  375. anon[361] • Disclaimer says:

    can’t believe the author got 382 comments out of this sh#tty article

  376. Cyrano says:
    @Gerard2

    Thanks my brother. I’ve said it once before and I’ll just repeat it: The Russians make me proud not only to be a Slav but a human being as well.

    If it wasn’t for the Russians, the degenerates from the west would have been able to prove by now that they are superior to the Slavs. Insignificant nations like mine wouldn’t be able to do anything to refute those claims. Neither would the designated but-kissers like Croats, Ukrainians, Polish and the other Slavic untermensch.

    Hitler might have been onto something when he said that the Slavs are untermensch. And then he met the Russians and he realized that his theory doesn’t apply to all Slavs, but only to those who want to be “western”.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  377. @Art Deco

    What difference does it make to Ukrainians whether we use an article, which is alien to them anyway? I chose “Little Russia” because it has been used in the past and is euphonious in English.

    “White Russia” is so much better than “Belarus” in most languages that nearly all their neighbors use the local version.

    Visit Wikipedia’s “Beijing” page and go down the names in other languages. They haven’t cucked out. Nor have the Romance languages on Calcutta and Bombay.

    • Replies: @for-the-record
  378. Jon0815 says:
    @reiner Tor

    Without the DLNR Ukraine could actually join NATO. As long as it has a territorial dispute, it cannot. So that’s why the Kremlin is not interested in peace.

    The territorial dispute would still exist, unless Kiev also recognized the DLNR, which presumably it wouldn’t. So this is not a valid reason for non-recognition.

    • Replies: @AP
  379. AP says:
    @Jon0815

    If NATO actually becomes a feasible option Ukraine will abandon claims for DNR just like that if it wants to join NATO. Russians are silly if they think DNR or Crimea will prevent Ukraine from joining NATO.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  380. @utu

    You will be happy to know that at another thread at UR a Dutchman and a Frenchman are swinging at each other as we speak.

    Recently at my work we hired a Dutchman from Belgium and he told me that to get a job in Belgium, you have to know French, even if you live in Flanders and have never spoken that language.

    The termination of the existence of fake and gay countries such as Belgium or the Ukraine will remove a lot of the obstacles for European nationalist cooperation.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @silviosilver
  381. @AP

    Do actual Ukrainians think like that? I’d be surprised. Under Facebook posts about Russia (on pages like Bloomberg News or Financial Times) I often see Ukrainian commenters complaining about Russian aggression, and whenever Crimea is mentioned, it’s in the context of illegal occupation, which Russia should be forced to give up. It doesn’t strike me that they are prepared to give it up.

    Your opinions are probably not very representative, for example you wrote that Ukraine is better off without Crimea and Donbas. So you’re happy with the status quo, and only support the pretty evident Ukrainian opposition to it and the effort to get those areas back as part of some nation building exercise. But the raw materials of this nation building (the actual Ukrainians) don’t think like that, they truly get worked up about Crimea. (And if they didn’t, then the utility of the whole thing for nation building would be negligible.) So would Ukraine so easily and quickly renounce any claims to those two areas? Sounds doubtful.

    Moreover, the frozen conflict could easily be unfrozen. Russia has repeatedly said that a Ukrainian NATO membership would be a red line for them. They basically made it clear multiple times that they’d regard it as casus belli. So the conflict would be unfrozen. But Russians weren’t silly (as you put it) in their calculations: several NATO nations (even probably the Americans) got cold feet about Ukrainian NATO membership (which had been, in principle, on the table ever since Ukraine applied for the NATO Membership Action Plan in 2008), so for the moment it is out of question.

    • Replies: @AP
  382. @utu

    Hey AaronB, good to see you again! I can see that you are in a light mood, trolling us with this combative and stupid “utu” character. I just noticed how anally fixated this character is. Of course it’s wrong to mistake a fictional character for the author (even if depicted in first person), but let’s face it: Thomas Mann truly was a pedophile. So, AaronB, does the anal fixation of your fictional character “utu” say something about you?

    I also would have liked it if you kept him more rational and capable of discussion. Like admitting to the theory of evolution having correctly predicted the distribution of junk DNA. Anyway, I guess you cannot help being a goofball yourself. It’s impossible to create a character smarter than you are, I guess. It’s also nice that you stopped spamming us with the esoteric mumbo-jumbo.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Epigon
  383. Can someone summarize it for me?

    In a Hungarian language Facebook group someone shared it and wrote that Turkey proposed the Americans to allow them to inspect the S-400 system. The article refers to Bloomberg, but I didn’t find it there.

    https://ria.ru/20181220/1548294443.html

    Just recently the Pentagon (is that unrespectful? maybe just Pentagon, without the article) cleared the sale of the Patriot system to Turkey. Since air defense is one area where the Russians still might be ahead of the US (or at least in parity), it might not be so smart to sell it to Turkey.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
  384. @reiner Tor

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-19/state-department-backs-missile-sale-to-turkey-in-breakthrough

    The RIA article quotes Peskov saying that not disclosing certain information is part of the contract and there are no reasons to distrust the “Turkish partners”.
    If he’s right then bloomberg could be trolling, or as they call it, waging hybrid warfare of disinformation against Russia.

    Though considering the network of agents that the US has in the Turkish military, even after the coup attempt, I hope the Russians know what they are doing.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  385. @Spisarevski

    The way I understand it, the Turks were interested in the Patriot before the S-400 deal, but the Americans didn’t want to sell them, both for political reasons and because the Turks wanted to receive part of the technology. The Russian military tried to block the S-400 deal, out of fear the technology would fall into American hands, but Putin overrode them to troll the Americans and to sow discord between them and the Turks. The American proposal to sell the Patriot now is a new attempt to prevent the S-400 deal from completion.

    Putin’s plot seemed to work for a long time, but recently (after the Khashoggi murder) it started to look bad. He should let the Turks out of the deal. (One issue might be that the Turks are already privy to a lot of information about the S-400.) They were mostly interested in unconditional American support for themselves rather than an honest deal, and only used Putin to troll the Americans. The issue got too far.

    • Replies: @songbird
  386. Richard Feynman, [Murray] Gell-Mann’s chief competitor for the title of the World’s Smartest Man but a stranger to pretension, once encountered Gell-Mann in the hall outside their offices at Caltech and asked him where he had been on a recent trip; ‘Moon-TRAY-ALGH!’ Gell-Mann responded in a French accent so thick that he sounded as if he were strangling. Feynman – who, like Gell-Mann, was born in New York City – had no idea what he was talking about. ‘Don’t you think,’ he asked Gell-Mann, when at length he had ascertained that Gell-Mann was saying ‘Montreal,’ ‘that the purpose of language is communication?’

  387. @Thea

    This is why I hate the UN, WTO, etc.

    Small countries should not even permitted the fiction of independence unless they’re prepared to go full Best Korea.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  388. @Hyperborean

    But I don’t think that.

    I love my country, but let’s not beat around the bush: America is the main center of evil in the world.

  389. @Reg Cæsar

    Visit Wikipedia’s “Beijing” page and go down the names in other languages. They haven’t cucked out. Nor have the Romance languages on Calcutta and Bombay.

    Interesting exercise, actually. The one that bothers me the most is Guangzhou for Canton, so that one is effectively cut off from a wide range of literature and history books pre-21st century.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  390. @DFH

    No one forced Germany, but Serbia’s behavior was outrageous. The bombs and guns used that day against Franz Ferdinand and his wife (Franz Ferdinand’s last words to his wife: “Sophie! Sophie! Don’t die! Stay alive for our children!”) came from Serbian state arsenals. The head of the Black Hand terrorist organization was also the head of Serbian military intelligence.

    The best way to explain this to modern people is to compare it to September 11…if Saddam Hussein had actually been the backer of Al Qaeda as W wanted people to believe.

    I’ve always had a low opinion of Balkanoid swine, but learning the real details of that fateful June 1914 day fills me with hatred for all the terrorist races south of the Danube.

    AP has made a a comment before that the House of Romanov was punished by God for going to war in support of regicide. Satisfying narrative though likely not true given that the Hapsburgs and Hohenzollerns, who went to war for righteous reasons, also lost their thrones.

    The Kaiser, incidentally, did more than practically anyone else that summer to try to stop the march to war. Certainly he did more than Edward Grey did (let alone the bloodthirsty Poincare). If German_reader is German_reading this comment, I have revised my opinion on the origins of the First World War since reading The Sleepwalkers. Germany is in fact innocent.

  391. @reiner Tor

    I thought Hungary was imminently expanding to the Pacific Ocean?

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  392. Now that Hungary has become a military superpower due to our new Panzer force, I’m pondering the possibilities of which countries to conquer first after becoming the Führer of Hungary. (Which should happen real soon!)

  393. Epigon says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    >reads a single book of dubious historical value
    >becomes a staunch proponent of the narrative, a true believer
    >learns history from popular history books written by sensationalist retards looking to make a quick buck by publishing contrarian and revisionist “history” in the form of story telling

    >unironically thinks that the then greatest military conflict was an unplanned accident

    >ignores 1908-1913 Annexation Crisis, Moroccan Crisis, Agadir Crisis, Balkan Crisis/London Conference

    >ignores Drang nach Osten, Congress of Berlin, Crimean War and Ottoman Question

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  394. utu says:
    @reiner Tor

    We should stop the crap with seeing pedophiles everywhere. A pedophile is attracted to prepubescent boys or girls and it is very rare condition. Thomas Mann’s homosexual attraction to post-pubescent Tadzio would be a case of ephebophilia and I am pretty sure that 100% of gays are ephebophiles because gays are very sexually aware. Attraction to post- and pubescent girls would be called nymphophilia. There are many heterosexual men who are not sexually aware so the cases of nymphophilia are lower than 100% but I am sure that majority of heterosexual men have experienced an attraction to post-pubescent girls. Observe yourself when you interact with the 14+ years old girlfriends of your daughter. I am pretty sure that because of the Westermarck effect your daughter is safe.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  395. Epigon says:
    @reiner Tor

    How did you equate utu and AaronB?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  396. @Epigon

    Well, they both said annoyingly dumb things, so this makes for a very hard proof. Truth!

  397. @utu

    majority of heterosexual men have experienced an attraction to post-pubescent girls

    Probably yes, but it’s not a preference for most.

  398. Seraphim says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    What do you know about the declaration of the Kaiser of 22 November 1912 when he openly proclaimed ‘the German support under any circumstances’ for Austria, alarmed by the strengthening of Serbia after her victories in the Balkan war, actually revealing the existence of the till then secret Triple Alliance? The British announced that they would not remain passive in the case of an Austro–Hungarian attack on Serbia, nor would they tolerate any aggression of Germany against France on that occasion.
    What do you know about the German Imperial War Council of 8 December 1912, where the Kaiser and the Army leadership urged Austria to attack immediately Serbia and if Russia would support Serbia the Germans would attack Russia? And that only reluctantly postponed the attack till 1914 at the insistence of Admiral Tirpitz, who showed that the completion of the construction of the U-boat base at Heligoland and the widening of the Kiel Canal were the Navy’s prerequisites for war (clearly expecting the British intervention).
    It suggests premeditation rather than innocence.
    Germany was coveting the oil fields of Baku and Persia. That required war with Russia and England.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  399. @Thorfinnsson

    But I don’t think that.

    I love my country, but let’s not beat around the bush: America is the main center of evil in the world.

    I got the feeling Cyrano was referring more to American culture. And you do seem the type to be an Americana aficionado.

  400. Re the following:

    Gatwick disruption: ‘no idea’ when airport will reopen as police still trying to catch drones

    will one (or more) of the military experts on this blog explain why they can’t simply shoot down the drone? This has certainly shown an incredible vulnerability of airports, that (presumably) a “lone wolf” can shut one down almost indefinitely. And while everyone is at pains to say that this is not a “terrorist” incident, supposing the first apparition of an (explosive) drone had been with an aircraft taking off?

    Police and airport-security teams were continuing to scour the area after the last sighting of a drone at 8:45 am [there has been at least one more since then], with a helicopter deployed to aid in the search for the perpetrators.

    This seems to be a bit of a joke, why isn’t the army doing something useful for a change?

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  401. songbird says:
    @utu

    To the contrary, many people love criminals and have no sympathy for their victims. Former mayor of Boston called stealing a car a “minor crime.”

    So, you are a universalist. No doubt advocating the vote for all those black Europeans living in Africa who just haven’t arrived in Europe yet.

  402. Dmitry says:
    @anonymous coward

    why it’s wide-spread in Russia and why 90% of the time used by Jews, not Russians.

    From these comments, you evidently don’t speak the language – so purpose of the argument is quite surreal. It feels like you are trying to prove to me you don’t know simple things.

    This language is rude, but popular in an equally distributed way (e.g. football hooligans calling fans of the opposing team this, while the other side returns the insult, without any sense of irony).

    No relationship of such common insults to Jews (for people who don’t know, Jews in Russia are not very common – only something like 1 in 150 people are Jews).

    Like I said: ask your parents or your grandparents. They will enlighten you. Also they will explain to you how the word “bydlo” came about,

    This is where I can copypaste.

    I’m writing this for others who might be interested in the topic.

    Word enters Russian in this (insulting) context from Polish,”cattle”.

    In Russian, it is used as an insult from around 1860s, as a derogatory insult of the lower classes.

    As an insult, this term for cattle be seen used from the second half of 19th century (1860s-1870s) in writers such as Gleb Uspensky, Tsensky, Krestovsky, Nikolai Leskov, Aleksey Pisemsky, etc.

    In their usage of cattle, can be seen from context the connotations of “group thinking”, “vulgarity”, etc.

    But when they were using it from the late 19th century, it would have been more fresh and less cliche, than today

    Krestovsky is using it already in 1860s with the exactly the same as modern connotations and context.

  403. Gerard2 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Not only were there Polyane within Ukraine (Central and Dniepr region), but they were the largest of the Slavic tribes that were part of the mix out of which the later Ruthenians and Ukrainians cam from.

    Utter,contemptible bollocks from the queen of cretinism: Mr Hack/Spack/Twat

    simply untrue you idiot, worse than reading treeleaves

    The great Ukrainian historian Michael Hrushevsky

    LOL…another failed, pseudo-scientific cretin who know serious person considers as “great”
    …but I I forget…aren’t you the same moron who claimed Taras Kuzio is “great” or some other nonsense over somebody who is both a non-entity and an idiot

    • Troll: Mr. Hack
  404. Dmitry says:
    @AP

    If you ignore some of Gerard’s angry insulting language, he is actually a very cultured man.

  405. songbird says:
    @reiner Tor

    Any cleavage with the Turks would be welcome. They are just a Muslim Mexico with a larger army. No good can come out of the relationship.

  406. Gerard2 says:
    @Seraphim

    What’s unacceptable is in Russian , the phonetic of New York (Нью )is used, but for other non American places the “new” is used literallly as in Папуа – Новая Гвинея for Papua New Guinea and the same thing for New Zealand

  407. @Thorfinnsson

    Serbia still accepted 9 out of the 10 demands made by Austria Hungary. The Austrian top brass (Led by military genius Conrad Von Hotzendorf) was desperate to attack Serbia and did everything to push Franz Joseph to declare war.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @AP
  408. Gerard2 says:
    @Dmitry

    The funniest internet insults I’ve read here was from our friend Gerard (whatever he is calling AP every week).

    the key to it, Dmitry , is that I don’t try to be gratuitous in my insults, I prefer to be subtle when addressing these lowest common denominator of humanity, fantasist retards

    Obviously there is no such thing as “Ukrainian” humour because it is exactly the same as Russian humour – and the American Russia|”experts” or State Deparment I’m sure don’t get 95% of Zakharova’s subtle wisecracks

    As for the Kant issue, I thing you may be unaware that this was in the context of the “Great Name of Russia” Airport naming project.Kant was nominated for and nearly won ( he was , just, winning at the early stage) ahead of Mikhailovich and Elizaveta Petrovna ( winner). I don’t think there is any Admiral on the planet who wouldn’t do the same thing in similar circumstances. Foreigners who benefited Russia are fine ( Vitus Bering was in the running to win at many airports), the link with Kant is less compelling

    You could have the view that the whole of humanity benefits from his works and that Kaliningrad should have no problem with celebrating Kant with pride , as their own…I wouldn’t dispute that , though I just prefer the other two on the shortlist

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  409. DFH says:

    I can’t think of anything more fake and gay than ‘Kaliningrad’ tbqph

  410. @utu

    You will be happy to know that at another thread at UR a Dutchman and a Frenchman are swinging at each other as we speak.

    That sounds interesting, which thread?
    Have to agree with you (once again), the comments in this thread are depressing in their myopic pettiness.

  411. @Thorfinnsson

    If German_reader is German_reading this comment, I have revised my opinion on the origins of the First World War since reading The Sleepwalkers. Germany is in fact innocent.

    I wouldn’t say innocent, the behaviour of Germany’s political elites was quite irresponsible and reckless; they were willing to risk a major war for essentially secondary reasons, even if their calculations were understandable.
    But I don’t see how any objective analysis can still claim that they were the sole or even the primary culprits; imo the Russian war party was at least as guilty. The view that evil Hun orcs started a deliberate war of aggression against a completely innocent Europe in 1914 is a myth; but it’s convenient for everybody else since it means nobody else has to revise their national mythology.

  412. Art Deco says:
    @Hyperborean

    How many white soldiers and administrators did Britain have in India?

    https://www.quora.com/How-many-Britishers-were-in-India-peak-when-India-was-a-British-colony

    Don’t be intentionally dense.

    Says the man who hasn’t noticed that the British haven’t ruled India for 70 years and hasn’t considered that an affluent country with an extensively educated populace and a long history of self-government might be a tad more difficult to subdue than a patchwork of principalities whose population consists of illiterate peasants struggling against the elements (and against the lesser sort among the landowners).

    You need political fictions, fine. Keep them to yourself and don’t bother the normies.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  413. Art Deco says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I love my country,

    You don’t.

    but let’s not beat around the bush: America is the main center of evil in the world.

    You’re a crank.

  414. Gerard2 says:

    As for the Putin Press-Conference, in the segments I saw, there was a funny bit where a journalist from Dagestan bemoaned that all the television and adverts are only promoting a slavic image of Russia, all light hair and slavic culture and so on…a few minutes later the host of one of Channel One’s main political talk shows, Marina Kim, points out the inherant flaws in that theory by her presence there.

    I’m sure the lady from Dagestan feels that as the truth, if VVP is getting abuse from her on one side, then plenty of nationalists on the other side…..then the authorities must have established a sensible equilibrium. I reckon, if anything, kavkaz groups out of all the others are the ones over-represented in high positions, get the most attractive slavic women and are the worst drivers

    Armenian journalist asked about how he was going to “restore” relations with Armenia…which seemed a very strange question to ask

  415. @Spisarevski

    A Dutchman and a Frenchman swinging at each other is a good example of European solidarity. Just like the spat between Russia and Poland (or Ukraine, if you prefer extremes), or never-ending Serb-Croat hostility, are good illustrations of Slavic solidarity.

    However, I don’t think international cooperation of nationalists is possible, as their ideology is basically “my tribe is better than your tribe”. On the other hand, cooperation of sane patriots of different countries against globalists elites is possible.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
  416. @Thorfinnsson

    The Empire is the main generator of evil in today’s world, not the country. The US as a country is screwed by the globalist elites just like the rest of the world (although they avoid mass slaughter in the US and Europe that they unleashed on the aborigines of the third world).

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  417. @Art Deco

    You need political fictions, fine.

    You’re a believer in political fictions yourself (iirc you once wrote still believe that Saddam Hussein’s regime in 2003 had stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, but that they were brought somewhere else). It’s bizarre when highly ideological US nationalists accuse others of believing in irrational fictions.

    Keep them to yourself and don’t bother the normies.

    I’m not entirely conversant with alt-right lingo, but aren’t “normies” supposed to be clueless fools who don’t get what’s really going on?
    Anyway, speaking of an “American empire” may be inaccurate, of course there’s no formal American empire like the Roman, British etc. But how can it be even controversial that US political elites since at least the early 1990s have had permanent global American hegemony as their goal? I suppose one can debate whether that’s a good or bad thing (there might be worse alternatives), but denying the reality of those political programmes (and their consequences) is absurd.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Art Deco
  418. @Syagrius

    In American English, The Frontier, would be a reasonable translation. The March being a bit medieval outside the actual Marches.

  419. @for-the-record

    There might be 50 drones operated from Afghanistan. This is not some “look at me” attention seeking. I am wondering about a ransom demand. Organized crime from Russia?

  420. @Dmitry

    Why do a quarter of the businessmen I meet in Russia seem to be jewish if there are so few?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  421. @Epigon

    >is a total fag
    >go fuck yourself

  422. @Seraphim

    The war council in 1912 was an impetuous meeting called by the Kaiser which did not translate into official policy of the German government. It’s worth noting that in the same year the German and Russian governments also held a high level summit with some success.

    The Kaiser strongly backed Austria-Hungary in the summer of 1914 (as he was right to do–the Serbs were scum), but did not believe it would lead to general war and personally intervened to try to stop Russia’s mobilization by writing to the Tsar (with temporary success).

    It is true that the Kaiser was interested in oil however. In fact he had a scheme for creating a pan-European oil major in order to rival Standard Oil. This was discussed with the Russians in 1912.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  423. @Swarthy Greek

    This is true, but in the summer of 1914 for once Hotzendorf was right (as opposed to the previous 30 or so times). Serbia in 1914 absolutely deserved to be invaded.

  424. @German_reader

    Beyond the Serbs themselves, the Russians are perhaps primarily to blame in the summer of 1914. In the years leading up to it we can blame all parties of course (though Britain doesn’t come off too badly), but the role of France in particular stands out. France made a habit of supporting Russia’s reckless foreign policy in the Balkans because she believed that a war against Germany emerging in the east would me most favorable to French security.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  425. @AnonFromTN

    Sure. We Americans are the first victims of The Empire as well as the greatest resisters and enemies of The Empire (though Russia, China, and Iran deserve some respect here).

    But it remains true that The Empire is our country (unfortunately).

  426. @German_reader

    there’s no formal American empire like the Roman

    But was there a fully formal Roman Empire in the initial stages? Rome had many “allies” which later turned out to be vassals and then just got incorporated into the Roman Empire. But our historical maps of the Punic Wars already depict the cities and territories of these allies using the same color as Rome itself.

    It’s conceivable that over time NATO will evolve into some kind of confederation and then federation. It’s also impossible to know if the democratic processes will over time get increasingly nominal. The Roman Empire was a republic until very late in the game, and nominally stayed a republic long after it was closer to a hereditary monarchy. If such developments will happen, Estonia and Hungary might be depicted using the same colors as the US, as the American Empire (or whatever it will be called in the future).

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Matra
  427. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean

    I am wondering if it might be based on a Japanese manga. But I doubt they would pay the rights or acknowledge it.

  428. @AnonFromTN

    However, I don’t think international cooperation of nationalists is possible, as their ideology is basically “my tribe is better than your tribe”

    I don’t see much of that in modern European nationalists. It’s mostly “I want my tribe to continue to exist and to be sovereign in its own country”.

    Maybe the demographic crises have lowered the goals and if the white genocide is reversed, then the old enmities and territorial claims will appear again once there is no common threat, but reversing the white genocide is a very big “if” indeed and we should be happy if we get there.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  429. @reiner Tor

    Maybe; though Art Deco is at least right about one thing: there’s no equivalent to the colonies of Roman citizens the Romans founded in strategic places (I don’t think US military bases, despite their undoubted importance, have the same quality).
    But the end point of American global hegemony might of course be some sort of world government, run by supposedly enlightened liberal elites (it’s already clear anyway that they would like to do away with democracy when it leads to the “wrong” results). Such an outcome would however probably be regarded as undesirable by the more narrowly nationalistic US hegemonists since it would lead even to the disappearance of the US as we know it.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  430. @Spisarevski

    I don’t see much of that in modern European nationalists.

    Unz review comments threads prove the opposite, most commenters here spend more effort re-litigating 1914-1945 history or engaging in petty national feuds than in thinking about urgent present-day problems (let alone organizing for action). It’s like they’ve never heard of the “most important graph in the world” or don’t quite get what the UN global compact for migration (adopted by most European countries, though fortunately there are at least a few exceptions) is intended to achieve.

  431. neutral says:
    @German_reader

    The “most important graph in the world” and ww2 are not unrelated topics. The one came about because of the other. What makes the African population explosion so deadly is the current ruling ideology or racial equality and mass migration. This could not have come about without the international jew having total dominion over the planet. Just like then, the problem is ultimately about the jew, one can never ever resolve the African population explosion until one has dealt with the jewish problem.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  432. @German_reader

    We’re discussing an interesting topic among comrades.

    “The most important graph in the world”, while important, is boring and also something on which we all agree.

    The events of 1914-1945 are fascinating and not something we all agree on.

    And it’s not like anyone is organizing anywhere about those events, unless you count the Jews and their obsession with the extremely boring Holocaust (by far the least interesting event of 1914-1945).

    And I don’t know about you guys, but I do organize. I’m a member of the Republican Party and sit on various committees, interview candidates, meet with donors, knock on doors, etc.

    • Agree: DFH
  433. @neutral

    one can never ever resolve the African population explosion until one has dealt with the jewish problem.

    What does that mean, do you think all Jews should be killed? If so, write it explicitly, I’m tired of cowardly allusions and euphemisms.
    This also illustrates a problem with many of the commenters here…their all-consuming obession with Jews, to the exclusion of everything else. Now I’m hardly a philosemite myself, and there’s indeed a lot to resent about the role of Jewish organizations and individuals in western countries today. But that’s hardly a sufficient explanation. What would be needed would be a coherent analysis and critique of human rights ideology and globalist agencies like the UN organization for migration. But unfortunately that’s apparently too much to ask for from most nationalists.
    And while I dislike Israel, I have at least to acknowledge that Israel doesn’t seem to have played any important role in bringing about this UN global compact for migration, but has actually rejected it (the countries that pushed most for wide-ranging efforts to turn migration into a quasi-human right are of course various shit countries in Africa and Latin America – and of course the Vatican).

    • Agree: songbird
    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Thorfinnsson
    , @neutral
  434. @German_reader

    It’s just banter, don’t become grumpy like utu, with heavy conclusions drawn from some shit flinging on the internet.

    I don’t think any of us ever thought that we will sing kumbaya under the rainbow or something.
    While I genuinely like many European nations, plenty of people in Europe would see my own as “balkan swine” like Thorfinnsson does, and I will continue to be able to recognize Northwestern Europeans on the street by their faggy, somewhat confused look, and to be annoyed by them.

    That’s not a big deal. We don’t have to agree with each other on everything or like everything about one another in order to work together. Bulgarians and Serbs shit on each other all the time on 4chan, but at the end of the day nobody will support the other country being flooded by refugees or ravaged by war. If the balkanoids can effectively bury the hatchets, surely the other Europeans can as well.

    Come to Bulgaria some time for the Lukov March – you will see hundreds of nationalists from all over Europe being friendly with one another and doing things together in real life.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @iffen
  435. DFH says:
    @German_reader

    Israelis themselves do not play as much of a role as Diaspora Jews, but they have tried (yes, I know it failed after it was revealed). The fact that they oppose it for themselves does not say very much.

    https://nypost.com/2018/04/02/israel-to-send-african-migrants-to-western-countries-in-un-deal/

    • Replies: @German_reader
  436. @Dmitry

    This language is rude, but popular in an equally distributed way

    No. It seems that way to you because the circle of people you actually talk to is 90% Jewish.

    Using ‘bydlo’ unironically is, in Russia at least, a sure-fire marker of a Jew.

    It’s a characteristically Jewish word, imported from beyond the pale of settlement along with the rest of the shitty Jewish culture. (Hence the link with Poland.)

    (That said, too many Russians pretend to be Jews and adopt the most disgusting and vile Jewish mannerisms, e.g. the shitty Tolstoy(aya) family.)

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  437. @Spisarevski

    I will continue shitting on Balkanoid swine as is my duty ordained by God, but I’ve enjoyed myself every time I’ve been to the Balkans.

    At the end of the day the Balkanoids might be swine, but you’re our swine.

    Just like we’re your confused fags apparently.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @DFH
  438. @German_reader

    What does that mean, do you think all Jews should be killed? If so, write it explicitly, I’m tired of cowardly allusions and euphemisms.

    These comms aren’t secure. Don’t ask people to say such things.

    What would be needed would be a coherent analysis and critique of human rights ideology and globalist agencies like the UN organization for migration. But unfortunately that’s apparently too much to ask for from most nationalists.

    It’s a Christian heresy.

    God = Mother Earth
    Jesus = Martin Luther King (or Nelson Mandela)
    Satan = Adolf the H-man Hitler
    Sin = Discrimination
    Demons = White men
    Saints = negroes, homo-sexuals

    etc.

    • Agree: Talha, dfordoom
    • Replies: @German_reader
  439. songbird says:

    If the EU is inherently evil, how much more evil is the UN? The US was definitely right to stay out of the league of nations.

    The current pope is also evil, but though, I think the media like to trumpet him, I don’t think he is very influential. That is not to say some existing Catholic organizations are not. I think it is essentially the NGO problem: you cannot create a charity, without it being subverted by a leftist mindset. Ford and Carnegie definitely would not approve of theirs.

    BTW, I doubt he was inferring killing Jews. I think most people who speak of such things mean recognizing their hidden, very disproportionate influence and so defusing it. If Hitler were smart, he would have been a Zionist. Not Palestine, but somewhere in the south of Africa. Being segregated from gentiles and surrounded by Bantu would have done a lot to defuse any accusations of racism. Nor could they send caravans to Europe, as Israel does now.

  440. @DFH

    I wrote that I dislike Israel, and stuff like that is one of the reasons. I’m not under any illusions that Israel is a friend or ally of European nationalists.
    Still, it’s good and potentially useful that Israel rejects that pact (even if only for selfish reasons).
    I stand by my larger point that nationalists need to come up with some better arguments against globalism and human rights ideology (and also with a positive vision of their own).

    • Replies: @Epigon
  441. @songbird

    The current pope is also evil

    It’s not just the pope, plenty of European bishops have come out in support of the UN global compact for migration:

    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2018-12/comece-migrants-refugees-global-compact.html
    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/vatican-city/news/2018-12/holy-see-migrants-refugees-golbal-compact-dicastery-human-develo.html

    I know a lot of people here don’t like the issue to be mentioned, but the Catholic church as an institution today is definitely doing everything in its power to promote mass immigration to Europe.

    Not Palestine, but somewhere in the south of Africa

    Well, Himmler and Heydrich were seriously considering the Madagascar solution even in late 1940.
    Probably wouldn’t have been positive for Jews either (there was thought of some Jewish self-administration; but basically Heydrich wanted to run Madagascar as an SS colony, with Jews kept as hostages to prevent US entry into the war). Though maybe better than what actually happened.

    • Replies: @songbird
  442. @songbird

    Nazi Germany supported the Zionists until the war started.

  443. Epigon says:
    @German_reader

    Shouldn’t nationalists try to win their own respective countries back first, before formulating a strategy, grand plan to combat the Empire, Atlanticists, Globalists, Bilderbergs, nobles etc.?

    Furthermore, wouldn’t a nationalist, healthy nation actually welcome the fact that their neighbouring historical rivals/wrongdoers have fallen to Poz, Weimarism and their society in turmoil and dillution?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  444. @Thorfinnsson

    Don’t ask people to say such things.

    Given Neutral’s frequently expressed admiration for Hitler it’s a reasonable question imo.

    It’s a Christian heresy.

    That doesn’t explain much though imo. I was thinking of some deep analysis of the roots of human rights ideology, antiracism and immigrationism, their historical genealogy and present-day networks and institutions promoting them. I’m not sure if something like this has been done before, but it’s needed imo.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  445. Epigon says:

    My take on atlanticism, globalism, JQ etc. is that Jews are a caste which serves as an insulation for true power, and which gets soft powers and industries in return. The point of all degeneracy, miscegenation, browning, immigration is to remove any possibility of competition and upstarts removing the pure, groomed, carefully bred and raised 0.1% elites.

    The brown 85-90 IQ Mestizo, African, Euro hybrids would be easily controlled and manipulated, and certainly lacking in ambition, determination and raw genetical potential to rival the power holders.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  446. @Epigon

    Shouldn’t nationalists try to win their own respective countries back first

    You can’t do that though without a coherent argument against the prevailing human rights ideology of our age, in favour of national community and sovereignty.
    I think we need to realize that the globalist narrative is superficially very attractive to many people (“the human family” coming together, an end to strife and petty differences, a higher level in the development of humanity etc.). We need a convincing counter-narrative and counter-values.

    Furthermore, wouldn’t a nationalist, healthy nation actually welcome the fact that their neighbouring historical rivals/wrongdoers have fallen to Poz

    I disagree, people who think like that are short-sighted imo.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Epigon
    , @utu
    , @dfordoom
  447. neutral says:
    @German_reader

    Obviously Israel is not going to sign any migration treaty, I don’t even known what kind of point you are trying to make, it is well known how Israel demands others live by a set of rules that itself will never accept.

    As for the jews, what should one do with ones enemies? Try win them over with superior arguments, turn the other cheat, or all the other rubbish (((Hollywood))) pop culture teaches?

  448. @German_reader

    My theory is actually an excellent answer to your question, though naturally it takes a lot more explanation.

    Southern (as in the South of America) nationalists have done a lot of work on this question, perhaps since they were early victims of the poz.

    Hunter Wallace (aka Brad Griffin) of Occidental Dissent has written a lot on the question, as have older pre-internet Southern writers.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  449. @Epigon

    I see this theory tossed around a lot, but having grown up elite and being a current member I don’t buy it. These people aren’t that clever, and generally they believe their own bullshit. Certainly I’ve never once heard a rich or powerful man at a party or mixer espouse such ideas.

    We’re not that carefully groomed or bred at all. The biggest things our parents do for us is raise us apart from the lower classes and introduce us to useful networks.

    Granted I haven’t reached the level of Soros and so forth, but I’m highly skeptical that there’s a sudden change of mentality at the next order of magnitude of wealth.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  450. Epigon says:
    @German_reader

    You can’t do that though without a coherent argument against the prevailing human rights ideology of our age, in favour of national community and sovereignty.

    Yet, some nations are simply not buying it – even now. I share your concern and general opinion, but how can you rationally explain to someone who fails to see the merit of sovereignity, protected borders, furthering your own kind and looking after those close to you?
    Who doesn’t want his people and country to prosper and preserve themselves?

    I think we need to realize that the globalist narrative is superficially very attractive to many people (“the human family” coming together, an end to strife and petty differences, a higher level in the development of humanity etc.). We need a convincing counter-narrative and counter-values.

    I think it is attractive to those who think they profit from it. In addition to delusional NPCs and salon liberals/leftists of the West-in-decline.

    The best argument against the nonsense of immigration, degeneracy, hedonism, promiscuity, all-out-materialism would be a thorough ECONOMIC study of the effects of such life, and the detrimental effects upon society.

    I disagree, people who think like that are short-sighted imo.

    I can see French, Germans, English throwing aside their past differences after experiencing enrichment, alienation, hostile elites.
    I most definitely can’t see Albanians, Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats putting aside their past and current grievances due to Westerners dying out.

    Nor do I see Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians getting back to Rus’, or Scandis to Norse.

  451. @Thorfinnsson

    Southern (as in the South of America) nationalists have done a lot of work on this question

    Do they see it as a development of Yankee puritanism?
    I’ve recently read the volumes in the Oxford history of the United states about the civil war and Reconstruction/the Gilded age. It’s striking how extreme some abolitionists were. Thaddeus Stevens even pushed for racial integration of schools (!) in the South. It also occurred to me that in the long run copperheads were fundamentally right in their apprehensions about blacks moving to the northern states, when one considers the history of urban riots and decay of cities like Newark, Detroit etc. from the 1960s onwards.
    I doubt though that’s a sentiment one could publicly express in the US nowadays.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  452. Epigon says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Are you sure you’re part of the statefounding/stateholding elite?
    I wouldn’t call people who have succeeded in taking and holding power, then passing it to their inheritors for generations – “not that clever”.
    Even “Balkan shitholes” have such “power broker” families and individuals who can trace their ancestry to medieval aristocracy.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  453. @German_reader

    Yes, they do. This is not a sufficient explanation in my view, but it’s part of the picture and they marshal a lot of evidence in support of it.

    Stephen Douglas incidentally warned that Abraham Lincoln would lead to negroes moving to the North.

  454. @Epigon

    No, I’m not. I’m the next rung beneath them.

    But I’ve seen enough of these people to not be impressed, and having grown up with their children I am deeply unimpressed.

    Notably they don’t pass their power on for generations. America has in fact had fairly high turnover of elites in the postwar period. The original WASP elites had a good run (three centuries), but then threw it all away. Since their time no one has held power for any stretch of time, and that’s because they themselves are also afflicted with all American pathologies.

  455. DFH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I find Balkan women quite hot, perhaps the one redeeming feature of Albanians

    • Replies: @Epigon
  456. Epigon says:
    @DFH

    I would expect some sheepshagger to fancy himself an Albo, but an Englishman…!

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  457. Dmitry says:
    @anonymous coward

    No. It seems that way to you because the circle of people you actually talk to is 90% Jewish.

    Using ‘bydlo’ unironically is, in Russia at least, a sure-fire marker of a Jew.

    No it’s not. Why talk about language you can’t speak, as evident by these statements. It’s very strange to read, even for standards of Karlin blog standards.

    It’s a characteristically Jewish word, imported from beyond the pale of settlement along with the rest of the shitty Jewish culture. (Hence the link with Poland.)

    (That said, too many Russians pretend to be Jews and adopt the most disgusting and vile Jewish mannerisms, e.g. the shitty Tolstoy(aya) family.)

    No is it not. Not only today, but in any historical epoch.

    Searching literary corpus, word is used from the second half of 19th century (1860s-1870s) in Gleb Uspensky, Tsensky, Krestovsky, Nikolai Leskov, Aleksey Pisemsky, etc.

  458. Art Deco says:
    @German_reader

    But how can it be even controversial that US political elites since at least the early 1990s have had permanent global American hegemony as their goal? I suppose one can debate whether that’s a good or bad thing (there might be worse alternatives), but denying the reality of those political programmes (and their consequences) is absurd.

    Can you please define your terms? He said ‘Empire’. There is no empire. ‘Informal empire’ is a vague half-baked idea that blowhards and academics use in self-aggrandizing exercises.

    “Hegemony” is a fuzzier term. The U.S. has influence because it has a large economy and a large military. These can be deployed toward political goals via policy. The notion that ‘permanent global hegemony’ has ever been a goal is a fantasy of yours. Someone like Charles Krauthammer causes the people on these boards to react like vampires to garlic. What was his article in Foreign Affairs published in 1990 called? “The Unipolar Moment“.

    The prerequisites of hegemony are not an artifact of a discrete set of policies and the U.S. has not undertaken steps to prevent the erosion of the position of influence it had 25 years ago. The explosive growth of the Chinese economy since 1978, the rapid growth of the Indian economy since 1990, and the revival of the Russian economy since 1998 have all acted to erode the comparative position of the United States. We did just what to inhibit that? We did just what to inhibit Japan’s economic advance prior to that?

    The dimensions of the military are an artifact of policy, of course. As we speak, the ratio of American military spending to domestic product are as low as they have been at any time since 1940. Is that what we do on our way to ‘permanent global hegemony’? American manpower deployed abroad is close to the lowest it has been in over 70 years. Deployments are inconsequentially small in Tropical and Southern Africa, in South Asia, in Latin America, and in the Antipodes. In the Far East, they’re limited to South Korea and Japan, where their presence is not exactly novel.

    The places we’ve tried to impose our will of late would be Afghanistan and Iraq. That’s not the globe. They’re just a couple of problem countries and no one else was up to the task of conquering them.

    You’re not referring to any ‘realities’, just the manure you people toss around in this forum.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @dfordoom
  459. Since Anatoly hasn’t posted an open thread for a while, I will leave this important news pertaining to the coming biosingularity here:

    https://www.rt.com/news/447062-biohacker-injects-himself-bible-koran/

    Also some fresh new achievements in cutting edge AI and IQ research (for the lower IQ individuals, the caption button turns on subtitles):

  460. Dmitry says:
    @Philip Owen

    Well the sample (businessmen you meet) is not representative of the country.

    In wider definitions it’s probably about 1 million Jews in Russia (but in the census – where people can write down anything they want freely, including “Scientologist” – it is five times less).

  461. Matra says:
    @reiner Tor

    The American Empire isn’t an empire like the Roman, Ottoman, British or French ones, instead they have a different model: McDonald’s.

    The American Empire is made up of franchises instead of colonies. There is a basic business model or template for European Christian countries – globohomo – but just like with McDonald’s restaurants they can have local touches in each location including a full halal menu for Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc.

    There are numerous benefits to this kind of empire – including being able to somewhat plausibly claim that the locals actually own each franchise so disrupting/attacking them only hurts your own people.

    Another benefit of a franchise system for a people as insular as Americans is that unlike empires of the past (esp. the curious, adventurous British) they don’t need to bother teaching many of their own people about the cultures of the countries they are ruling over. (As Niall Ferguson pointed out at at the time of Gulf War 2 at Yale there were something like 20 times as many students in film as in Near East/Islam/Arabic studies. Even US ambassadors to France can’t be bothered learning French). This kind of soft, incurious, low energy empire – perhaps USA Inc. would be a better term – suits the American character.

  462. @Epigon

    Albanian women are, indeed, hot. So are Serb women, if that makes you feel better.

  463. Dmitry says:
    @Gerard2

    Kant would by far best for there. Not just a great figure of history, but also would be showing correct respect for education. And even source for tourism.

    Some controversy in this competition was Koltsovo. In the end the result is great – Bazhov. But when I was checking two weeks ago Demidov was ahead, strange except that choice was supported by Kuyvashev for some reason. Generally, Bazhov is the perfect choice.

    Look how, in Salzburg, they have Mozart airport. In Warsaw, Chopin airport. In Rome, Leonardo da Vinci airport.

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian
    , @AP
  464. @Art Deco

    Ahem, just a few days ago there was a blog post about the arrest of Meng Wenzhou here – iirc arrested for violating unilateral US sanctions against Iran. That’s not how a “normal” country behaves, but one which considers itself a global hegemon whose policies and legal dictates are somehow supposed to be binding to everybody else.

    The notion that ‘permanent global hegemony’ has ever been a goal is a fantasy of yours.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine#Superpower_status
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine

    Now you might argue that there has been no persistent hegemonic policy by the US over the last 30 years or so (seems doubtful to me, but I don’t have time or inclination to argue about it), but the idea that no official US documents in the last 30 years have called for preventing the emergence of peer competitors as a major policy goal is clearly false.

    The places we’ve tried to impose our will of late would be Afghanistan and Iraq.

    I don’t think I’ve ever criticized the US for the war in Afghanistan which in its origins was an entirely legitimate reaction to terrorist aggression.
    The same isn’t true of the 2003 Iraq war which was based on some highly dubious ideas of preventive war whose effects on the international order would be highly dangerous if they became generally accepted.
    I also wonder what your explanation for persistent US efforts to expand NATO is if it isn’t part of a hegemonic attempt at eroding Russia’s remaining influence in its neighourhood. It’s not like Georgia or Ukraine (or the various Balkan countries that are already in NATO) are in any way important to genuine US security interests. One doesn’t have to agree with the chauvinist opinions of Russian nationalists to wonder about the intention of such policy.
    But all of this has been discussed many times before, and my interest in another such discussion is rather limited.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  465. LH says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Britain was the first European power to support Greek liberation

    It was Russia, by supporting various local bandits toward the end of 18th century. But they envisioned Greek liberation slightly differently than the British.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  466. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    That’s interesting. I had not known it was a serious proposal.

    Actually, my entire conception of Madagascar as a possible destination comes from having had to watch the very weird movie “Europa, Europa” in high school. I don’t know whether it was intentional or not, but it struck me as being meant to be a lie in the film.

    I hadn’t really considered it before, but the title is very strange. I suppose it is meant to be a play on “Absalom, Absalom! “. But the pan-identification for WW2 strikes me as very odd, given current events. Maybe, it would be more natural for a communist or WW1.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  467. Art Deco says:
    @German_reader

    That’s not how a “normal” country behaves, but one which considers itself a global hegemon whose policies and legal dictates are somehow supposed to be binding to everybody else.

    No, that’s how a country which has certain objects on which it can bring leverage to bear behaves.

    Your references to Wolfowitz and Bush do not support your assertion. The ‘Bush Doctrine’, unlike various other ‘Doctrines’ enunciated over the last 70 years, is not a discrete policy document. While we’re at it, Wolfowitz was a 2d echelon civilian in the Defense Department who has been out of office for 13 years.

    the idea that no official US documents in the last 30 years have called for preventing the emergence of peer competitors as a major policy goal is clearly false.

    You want to respond to the actual point I made? Show me the document where it says, ‘bomb Chinese industry’. and maybe you’ll have an argument. Show me an actual policy implemented which could possibly accomplish what you say is the goal.

    I also wonder what your explanation for persistent US efforts to expand NATO is if it isn’t part of a hegemonic attempt at eroding Russia’s remaining influence in its neighourhood.

    IOW, every chess move the United States makes is an effort to secure ‘permanent global hegemony’ because reasons. Did it ever occur to you that the point was to give Russia pause about attempting to reconquer these places?

    The actual palpable reality that you refuse to acknowledge is that the American troop presence in Europe is as low as it has been in 70-odd years.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  468. @songbird

    I had not known it was a serious proposal.

    Sending Jews to Madagascar had been an idea of European antisemites since the late 19th century; iirc Poland even sent a government delegation there in the late 1930s to see if the island could be used for resettling Polish Jews. Himmler and Heydrich seem to have seriously considered the idea (Himmler apparently even said in 1940 that killing all Jews would be “unGerman” and an adoption of “Bolshevik” methods); but in any case it would have been a brutal project under the supervision of the SS. Given that Britain controlled the sea lanes and there was no prospect of peace with Britain, it was ditched at the end of 1940; and in the summer of 1941, with the attack on the Soviet Union, there was of course the switch to systematic mass murder.
    There’s a good discussion of the Madagascar plan in Robert Gerwarth’s biography of Heydrich (Hitler’s hangman: The life of Heydrich).

  469. @Dmitry

    Look how, in Salzburg, they have Mozart airport. In Warsaw, Chopin airport. In Rome, Leonardo da Vinci airport.

    Toronto – Lester Pearson and John Bishop airports. I’ve lived here for five years, read the citizenship exam textbook and another Canadian history book, and still can’t remember who these people are (prime ministers?…) Maybe should be renamed into Justin Bieber and Drake airports, lol.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Dmitry
  470. AP says:
    @reiner Tor

    Do actual Ukrainians think like that?

    Probably 15% or so. It is a minority viewpoint.

    I often see Ukrainian commenters complaining about Russian aggression, and whenever Crimea is mentioned, it’s in the context of illegal occupation, which Russia should be forced to give up. It doesn’t strike me that they are prepared to give it up.

    Now, no. I suspect that if it were part of a comprehensive deal that involved actual EU and NATO membership, right away, many minds would change.

    That is, if Ukraine joins NATO the day it gives up claim to Crimea, many Ukrainians would go along with the theft. I think it is similar for many Serbs vis a vis giving up claims to stolen Kosovo in exchange for EU membership.

    This is a theoretical discussion, as Ukraine is very far from ever joining NATO. But if it was close, Crimea ultimately probably would not be an obstacle.

  471. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    I am glad that one of my (distant, but I am in touch with their heirs) relatives will have an airport named after them in Russia, but I won’t say which one 🙂

  472. @Art Deco

    Did it ever occur to you that the point was to give Russia pause about attempting to reconquer these places?

    I’d say all this foolish talk about NATO membership for Georgia and Ukraine has actually made Russian military aggression against these countries more likely, since Russia obviously regards the establishment of a NATO presence there as unacceptable. It’s not clear to me at all that the 2008 war with Georgia and the 2014 Ukraine crisis would have happened without that irresponsible talk about NATO membership in the background.
    Anyway, this is kind of a stupid discussion…I don’t think most people here would claim that America is an “empire” in the sense that it completely controls other NATO members or would openly used armed force if some wanted to leave NATO. The issue is more about other forms of influence and America’s general perception of its role in the world (not subject to rules, but setting the rules for others). But since this discussion is unlikely to be illuminating and will probably end with another reference to ungrateful “Eurotrash” on your part, it’s probably best to end it.

  473. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    No one forced Germany, but Serbia’s behavior was outrageous. The bombs and guns used that day against Franz Ferdinand and his wife (Franz Ferdinand’s last words to his wife: “Sophie! Sophie! Don’t die! Stay alive for our children!”) came from Serbian state arsenals. The head of the Black Hand terrorist organization was also the head of Serbian military intelligence.

    The best way to explain this to modern people is to compare it to September 11…if Saddam Hussein had actually been the backer of Al Qaeda as W wanted people to believe.

    Exactly. Serbia paid a price for its evil – 1/3 of its population destroyed. And then it got the “reward” of Croatia, who resulted in another 100,000s deaths 20 years later.

    Too bad Serbia took down so much that was good in the world.

    AP has made a a comment before that the House of Romanov was punished by God for going to war in support of regicide. Satisfying narrative though likely not true given that the Hapsburgs and Hohenzollerns, who went to war for righteous reasons, also lost their thrones.

    I worked that into my theory. Hapsburgs protected Lenin and Trotsky and Hohenzollerns sent them into Russia. Did Willy do much to save his cousin Nicky?

    But their crimes paled in comparison to those of the Serbs, so they got off relatively lightly.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Thorfinnsson
  474. AP says:
    @Swarthy Greek

    Serbia still accepted 9 out of the 10 demands made by Austria Hungary.

    And the 10th was completely reasonable: allow Austrian investigators in to find the culprits. Same reasonable demand given to the Taliban after 9-11, for similar reasons. Serbia was even worse: Taliban gave shelter to Al Queda while the regicidal Serb terrorists were led by a senior Serbian government official.

    • Replies: @utu
  475. @AP

    Serbia paid a price for its evil – 1/3 of its population destroyed.

    Was it a third? I thought it was closer to a quarter.

    • Replies: @AP
  476. @Toronto Russian

    Perhaps you should take your adopted country more seriously. Lester Pearson in particular was very important in modern Canadian history.

    • Replies: @Bubba
    , @Bubba
    , @Toronto Russian
  477. @AP

    Willy wrote volumes of letters to Nicky in July, 1914 to try to stop the march to war. This had some temporary effect–Nicholas temporarily halted Russian mobilization owing to Wilhelm’s letters stating, “I will not preside over such a monstrous slaughter!”

    Wilhelm did not approve of sending Lenin to Russia, but acquiesced to it as circumstances were desperate. And honestly, the scheme worked.

    In general the monarchs of the period come off better than their elected counterparts, but lacked sufficient will and energy to prevent the slaughter.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AP
  478. Dmitry says:
    @Toronto Russian

    I know you have so many famous people, you could rename any things randomly in Canada – “Drake water treatment facility”, “Avril Lavigne car park”… “Carly Rae Jepsen telephone exchange”, “Justin Bieber hospital for the deaf”,etc.

  479. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Yes. Willy and Nicky were also toying with the idea of recreate the old German-Russian-Austro-Hungarian alliance but their ministers objected vehemently and this was prevented.

    What do you think of this article and its speculations? The author unfairly blames Germany for World War I and underestimates Ukrainian identity of the early 20th century (I suppose since he is a White Russian he cannot be blamed) but otherwise his conclusions seem to be solid.

  480. utu says:
    @AP

    Same reasonable demand given to the Taliban after 9-11, for similar reasons.

    Iirc, Taliban wanted to cooperate and was ready to round up people wanted by Americans but American wanted action and war not peace.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @songbird
  481. Seraphim says:
    @LH

    It was Russia by proposing to the Austrians the ‘Greek Plan’, conceived by Catherine and Potemkin, of revival of the Byzantine Empire, plan which entailed the creation of a Kingdom of Dacia (with Potemkin as king), reuniting Valahia, Moldova and Transylvania (roughly the present territory of Romania). It would have been a confederation of Orthodox countries. Of course, the problem of Crimea was of paramount importance.
    The plan was halfheartedly supported by Austria, which would not agree with ‘Dacia’, and actively sabotaged by France, England and Prussia, immoral and stubborn supporters of the Ottoman Empire, as a buffer against Russian ‘expansionism’ by controlling the Straits. It was roughly the time when the famous ‘proof’ of Russian unquenchable desire of conquest, the ‘Testament of Peter the Great’, was fabricated to ‘document’ the intentions of Russia to conquer the world (it is still invoked today).
    The plan is the background of the wars that ‘Europe’ launched to ‘contain’ and annihilate Russia, from Napoleon I to his mustachioed imitators.

  482. AP says:
    @utu

    To be honest, I hadn’t read or thought about if since that war many years ago. I found Bush’s ultimatum:

    “By aiding and abetting murder, the Taliban regime is commiting murder and tonight the United States of America makes the following demands,” Bush said.

    “Deliver to U.S. authorities all the leaders of Al Qaeda [terrorist organization] that hide in your land.

    “Release all foreign nationals including American citizens you have unjustly imprisoned.

    “Protect all journalists, diplomats and aid workers in your country.

    “Close immediately and permanently every terrorist training camp in Afghanistan and hand over every terrorist and every person in their support structure to appropriate authorities.

    “Give the US full access to terrorist training camps so we make sure they are no longer operating.”

    Bush added the demands were not open to negotiation or discussion.

    ::::::::::

    Taliban said they wanted to negotiate and wanted proof of Osama’s guilt but were bombed five days after the ultimatum was made. A week after the bombing began they said they’d hand over Osama but wanted further negotiations about other demands. America kept bombing.

    The war in Iraq was completely unjustified but Taliban deserved this.

  483. Bubba says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    LOL! Yeah, thanks for the lecture. Lester Pearson was one of the original progressive advocates for U.N. rape-keeping forces and the wonderful universal Canadian health care system! That’s some great Canadian values for ya! But don’t worry, Justin Bieber Trudeau will soon remove that old nasty progressive Lester Pearson statue and replace him with a self-detonating Omar Khadr statue courtesy of Canadian taxpayers. That’s in addition to Khadr’s $10.8 million CAD payout for murdering Canadian soldiers.

  484. Bubba says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    LOL! Yeah, thanks for the lecture. Lester Pearson was one of the original progressive advocates for U.N. rape-keeping forces and the wonderful universal Canadian health care system! That’s some great Canadian values for ya! But don’t worry, Justin Bieber Trudeau will soon remove that old nasty progressive Lester Pearson statue and replace him with a self-detonating Omar Khadr statue courtesy of Canadian taxpayers. That’s in addition to Khadr’s $10.8 million CAD payout for murdering Canadian soldiers.

  485. songbird says:
    @utu

    I’ll be honest: I think the war in Afghanistan was stupid. The USSR set a contemporary example. US strategy seemed to be to nation build. Obviously foolish and based on universalism, which is demonstrative of how pernicious such sentiment is. Anyway, assassination should have sufficed. Ironically, that ended up happening in Pakistan, but Afghanistan got the war.

    Your idea reminds me of a pozzed book: Three Cups of Tea. If I remember correctly the author claimed the Taliban got intelligence on US fleet movements by flying passenger on commercial flights and he applauded them for it – that’s how pozzed it was. Of course, he made up much of his story, which was obvious to anyone reading it, but not to the many globalists who were fans of the book.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  486. AP says:
    @Hyperborean

    You may be right. Wiki says that according to Serb sources it was 29% of the population (1.2 million out of 4.5 million) but this may be an exaggeration.

    Wiki estimates about 36 million non-Serb deaths during World War I. So the existence of every Serb meant death to 8 non-Serbs.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  487. Seraphim says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    You are obviously biased in favor of the Germans, because you view the conflict as the mythological confrontation between the dark-haired, dark-skinned Southern ‘scum’ (Slavs) and the fair-haired ‘white’-skinned “Norse” (Germans).
    It is ironic that Thorfinn is described as “an ugly-looking man with a black head of hair”.

    You seem to believe that Russia started the war. Germany declared war on Russia, not the other way round and invaded France without declaration. The Kaiser might have tried to avoid the war, but was by-passed by his advisors, who worked around the clock to promote the idea that ‘Russia alone [is] responsible for any extension of the conflict and disturbance of the European peace’, ‘Russia alone must bear the responsibility if a European war breaks out’, and present Germany as making all the efforts to prevent it, while rejecting every call for international mediation. It was the only case that would have guaranteed the British neutrality and mobilize the population (and the Social-Democrats, sworn enemies of the ‘Bloody Tsar’) for war. The hope of British neutrality was to prove the greatest illusion (no less than the belief of Hitler that he would come to an accommodation with Britain). ‘Willy’ was too confident in the ‘word of a King’ (‘Georgy’, who would prefer ‘Nicky’ and ‘Alix’), but the ‘filthy nation of grocers’ proved to be the ‘Perfidious Albion’ and all the blame shifted on it. The Kaiser himself wrote that: “England must . . . have the mask of Christian peaceableness torn publicly off her face. . . . Our consuls in Turkey and India, agents, etc., must inflame the whole Mohammedan world to wild revolt against this hateful, lying, conscienceless people of hagglers; for if we are to be bled to death, at least England shall lose India”.
    For Russia he had the ‘Committee for the Liberation of the Jews of Russia’ on the ready with printed pamphlets to be distributed in Russia: “‘Jews of Russia! Rise! Spring to arms! Help hunt the Moskal out of the West, out of Poland, Lithuania, White Russia, Volhynia and Podolia ! Freedom is coming from Europe . . . !”.
    Later on Lenin.

  488. Epigon says:

    The recent talk of empires and hegemonism got me thinking.

    Is there a book or paper on profitability of colonialism?

    I suspect that colonies weren’t gold mines, at least not as much as “exploitation of Third world built First world” proponents like to claim. Especially when White Man’s burden is taken into account, and all those unfortunate attempts at introducing civilization, infrastructure and education in various shitoles across the world are taken into account.

    The exceptions might be lands with silver and gold mines, and India as a huge market and tea grove.
    But even such countries are more profitable if they are left independent and the key resources are taken into concessions and multinational companies dominate their economies while locals have to do the statehood.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    , @songbird
  489. @Seraphim

    It is ironic that Thorfinn is described as “an ugly-looking man with a black head of hair”.

    You forgot the “big nose and bushy eyebrows”.

  490. @Seraphim

    I am not ashamed to admit to being a Germanophile.

    But Germanophilia has to do with the nation’s military and technological prowess, not its phenotype.

    As a Swede I have nothing to envy there–my people are fairer and more handsome than the Germans.

    Most of the the senior men in all of the powers in the summer of 1914 believed they were acting fairly and firmly, and that if it came to war it would be the fault of the other powers.

    If only they knew what it would lead to.

  491. @songbird

    I’ll be honest: I think the war in Afghanistan was stupid. The USSR set a contemporary example. US strategy seemed to be to nation build. Obviously foolish and based on universalism, which is demonstrative of how pernicious such sentiment is. Anyway, assassination should have sufficed. Ironically, that ended up happening in Pakistan, but Afghanistan got the war.

    I’ll admit ignorance of the finer details of the Afghan war, but the Taliban are primarily Pashtun, right?

    So would it have been possible to ally with the Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazara and other minorities to incite a race war against the Pashtun and essentially declare that the Taliban had been ‘punished’ sufficiently after enough ethnic cleansing had been carried out and Taliban cadres had been put to the wall?

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @songbird
  492. Seraphim says:

    Swedes have some reasons to dislike the Russians! Beaten time and again by the ‘scum’.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @utu
  493. @AP

    No, that’s their recent propaganda fantasy. Actual loss is ca. 700,000 (which is huge, anyway).

    • Replies: @Epigon
  494. @Hyperborean

    So would it have been possible to ally with the Tajiks, Uzbeks, Hazara and other minorities to incite a race war against the Pashtun and essentially declare that the Taliban had been ‘punished’ sufficiently

    I’ve had similar thoughts myself, but my understanding is that this would have only been possible in parts of the north and maybe west of Afghanistan; whereas the south is largely dominated by the Pashtuns, so you couldn’t have used their ethnic enemies as proxies against them there. There’s also the problem of Pakistan’s support for the Taliban.
    The basic problem is of course that the Americans and western powers in general today can’t use the necessary level of violence (that is German WW2 methods) to subject hostile populations like the Pashtuns, because of “human rights” and humanitarian sentiment. So the entire project was bound to be futile (troop levels were probably also always far too low for effective control of the country).
    Best to stay out of such horrible countries, and keep their horrible people away from ours.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @utu
  495. @German_reader

    Depends on what resources are available.

    In Afghanistan, that’s apparently not much.

    But conquering Saudi Arabia would be worth it for Europe (ex-Norway and Russia), China, or Japan. Provided you could employ SS level brutality.

    Not America anymore since we’re once again the world’s largest producer of oil and soon imports will end. The American oil industry, despite the low oil price currently, is in fact my largest customer.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @songbird
  496. @Jaakko Raipala

    Also, politics of the interwar era over here had a big culture war between Finns and Swedes over who gets to be the favorite of Germany and the Swedes considered the eastern origins of Finns one of their big propaganda weapons. There definitely was a Swedish plot to ruin the racial reputation of Finns in Nazi era Germany and there’s a set of Finns who think it’s all still secretly going on.

    There was a competition between Swedes and Finns over who could be the favorite of Germany? Interesting. So who won?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  497. @Thorfinnsson

    But conquering Saudi Arabia would be worth it for Europe

    I’ve had fantasies about that as well. It’s offensive that those worthless Saudis are so rich through no merit of their own, and then use their undeserved wealth for anti-Western activities.
    Would be a bad idea though because the entire Islamic world would go crazy because of their holy sites.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Hyperborean
  498. utu says:
    @German_reader

    I think we need to realize that the globalist narrative is superficially very attractive to many people (“the human family” coming together, an end to strife and petty differences, a higher level in the development of humanity etc.). We need a convincing counter-narrative and counter-values.

    This is the most important question. But too important for UR. Unfortunately I do not see any viable counter-narrative on the horizon. But I know the basic elements of the narrative.

    (1) The narrative may not be based on blood but must be based on soil and kultur. This is possible in Europe but not in America because they have neither soil nor kultur. America is fucked.

    (2) The narrative must be based on economic argument that immigration hurts labor class. The narrative must be anti-neoliberal and egalitarian with socialist element. Again this is more likely to fly in Europe than in America. Americans are fucked.

    The only chance for Americans would be to co-opt Negroes to the cause (*). This is practically impossible for either of the sides. Sailers and the rets of HBDers and IQists are working full time so it would never happen.

    Basically the vision must be fascist where the left and the right merge in a populist movement.

    (*) In the film version of Vonnegut’s Mother Night there is an underground Nazi movement in New York City with Blacks wearing SS uniforms. I love Vonnegut. His Slaughterhouse-Five is the most beautiful and most powerful anti-WW II book written.

    • Agree: German_reader, dfordoom
    • Replies: @songbird
    , @DFH
  499. @Jaakko Raipala

    I grew up in America rather than Sweden, but I am Swedish. Swedish parents and Swedish family.

    I can report that everyone in my family likes Finland and only has positive things to save about Finland other than jokes about Finns getting drunk and stabbing people.

    My great grandparents in fact adopted an orphan from the Winter War.

  500. @Jaakko Raipala

    I grew up in America rather than Sweden, but I am Swedish. Swedish parents and Swedish family.

    I can report that everyone in my family likes Finland and only has positive things to save about Finland other than jokes about Finns getting drunk and stabbing people.

    My great grandparents in fact adopted an orphan from the Winter War.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  501. @German_reader

    The oil isn’t near the holy sites.

    You could set up a puppet government with control of those sites.

  502. utu says:
    @Seraphim

    Swedes were destroy by their own hubris. They really believe that they are the most humanitarian and most compassionate people in the world and so this angle was used to pry them open by the likes of Barbara Specter.

  503. utu says:
    @German_reader

    All problems of Afghanistan began outside of Afghanistan. First in late 1970’s when they began to secularize and modernize and got close to USSR it was not liked by the US which began to instigate insurgency based on Muslim radicalism. American are responsible for the Soviet invasions. They did everything to make it happen. See Brzezinski’s interview with Le Nouvel Observateur (1998) https://dgibbs.faculty.arizona.edu/brzezinski_interview.

    And then after Soviets left there were Pakistanis, Iranian and Indians who kept meddling.

    Anyway I would leave Taliban alone.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  504. @German_reader

    Would be a bad idea though because the entire Islamic world would go crazy because of their holy sites.

    Saudi oil-rich areas are in the Shia-majority east coast, far away from the Hejaz. The problem would be finding a suitable replacement for the rest of the country. Maybe the Hashemites?

    • Replies: @German_reader
  505. @Hyperborean

    Maybe the Hashemites?

    At least they seem more civilized than those horrible Saudi royals. Aren’t they also supposedly descendants of Mohammed, so therefore more legitimate as rulers?
    But anyway, such imperialist projects would probably backfire in some unexpected way. And given the current situation this is mere fantasy.

    • Replies: @Bukephalos
  506. @utu

    Anyway I would leave Taliban alone.

    That’s probably how it will turn out in the end anyway. There’s no real prospect of “winning” the war there.
    From a German/European perspective the problem is of course that we’ll get even more asylum seekers from Afghanistan when the Taliban are back in power. And it will be totally impossible to deport anybody there.

  507. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean

    That’s right, and even though they do have a universalist element, it arguably seems to influence their identity as Taliban. Most Pashtun, of course, live in Pakistan, which has nukes. But I think such missions of reprisal need to be decoupled from globalism. When they can all get student visas (and more) it would probably be reprisal and counter-reprisal.

    Plus, there is a kind of murky element – America helped create the Taliban, with matching Saudi money. The CIA and Charlie Wilson etc. weren’t thinking that far ahead, but they did a lot stupid things, like increasing funding when the Soviets seemed ready to withdraw, to give them that final push. This resulted in very large weapons caches, when the whole thing – if ventured upon – should have been a just-in-time system.

    Your possible targets of reprisal are a complicated Venn diagram, but I’d suggest disentanglement from the Saudis would have been a start. An end to globalism. Then perhaps the destruction of Osama bin Laden’s clan. Perhaps clan-level reprisal would be more purely effective than tribe. Of course, women in politics lead to these absurd scenarios of what we actually do. It is like combining war with charity or efforts to equalize blacks, when all that is needed is something narrow and more precise. We get to kill the Pashtun and then try to make them literate to the 8th grade level.

  508. Seraphim says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I like Sibelius, but why on earth did he write Masonic music?

  509. songbird says:
    @utu

    You cannot co-opt blacks because you would need to outbid their patrons who have no ceiling.

    Since you are not an American – you do not understand how brainwashed blacks are to hate whites. Probably their natural inclination, but a lot of their teachers are telling them from a very young age if they fail, blame whitey. Add Hollywood. I kid you not: I heard a great whale of an urban black girl once with shaky voice tell my class that the word picnic – so pleasant and harmless – found in so many languages – came from a contraction of “pick a nigger” (to lynch). That was in normal school.

    I could tell many other such annecdotes, but suffice it to say, you’d be better off dropping off coconuts on Sentinal Island, than trying to win blacks over. Blacks burnt down Detroit when they had about 2% unemployment and were wealthier than most Europeans.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Matra
    , @Thomm
  510. utu says:
    @songbird

    I was right then. You are fucked.

  511. NZLex says:
    @utu

    “butt-hurt” is such a gay term.

    • Replies: @utu
  512. utu says:
    @NZLex

    You might be correct that there is some gay connection. The world was included in slang dictionary in 1999, so it is fairly recent. But the meaning is more likely to be related to mild spanking rather than to a brutal annal rape.

  513. Epigon says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You’re a retard.

    • Replies: @utu
  514. @German_reader

    The only way for European nationalists to not quarrel about history is to abandon their distinct history and identity in favor of a shared frame of thought. Quarreling should be ok as long as it does not result in destructive conflict and fragmentation. In the end it is likely that some new shared identity will be built. The identity that is presently shared will also be elaborated on.

  515. DFH says:
    @utu

    The only chance for Americans would be to co-opt Negroes to the cause (*). This is practically impossible for either of the sides. Sailers and the rets of HBDers and IQists are working full time so it would never happen.

    Perhaps one of the stupidest things I have heard

    • Replies: @utu
    , @songbird
  516. Matra says:
    @songbird

    You cannot co-opt blacks because you would need to outbid their patrons who have no ceiling

    It goes well beyond gibs, as you are no doubt aware. The conservatards who were so excited about Kanye and the rest of it have been quiet since the mid-terms. This time, they said, this time it just might happen! lol

    Even the more supposedly realistic Republicans who’ve argued that pandering to blacks can at least reduce black turnout – they won’t hate us so much! – have little to show for their efforts.

  517. utu says:
    @Epigon

    Keep in mind our Bardon Kaldian is Ustaše from Croatia, another Balknoid from fake and gay country.

    • Replies: @Spisarevski
  518. utu says:
    @DFH

    I know, DFH, you as Polack wannabe Brit are very intimidated by big juicy black cocks. American have no choice but to get used to it. And Brits are pretty much beyond the point of no return. Better get yourself a jar of K-Y Jelly.

    • Replies: @DFH
  519. DFH says:
    @utu

    So that’s what you were talking about when you said you wanted to ‘co-opt’ blacks. That’s a euphemism I haven’t heard before.

  520. iffen says:
    @Spisarevski

    If the balkanoids can effectively bury the hatchets,

    RE: Burying Hatchets

    The most important consideration is where the hatchet is buried.

  521. @Thorfinnsson

    Perhaps you should take your adopted country more seriously. Lester Pearson in particular was very important in modern Canadian history.

    My bad. And it was Billy Bishop. Who’s a famous aviator. Like Chkalov, he has the name recognition just right for an in-country flights airport.

    By the way, thanks for hyaluronic acid recommendation. Works handsomely, skin glows. I wonder if has a withdrawal effect because such good thing’s got to have a catch somewhere.

  522. @Epigon

    By the time the British Raj was put in place to replace the just about bankrupt East India Company, India was evidently not profitable.

    In general there would be a short period of high profits but prices would fall in he face of new supply.

    That was for trade empires. The British did a bit better than most because they reinvested.

    • Replies: @DFH
  523. DFH says:
    @Philip Owen

    I think that by the start of the 20th century, Malaya was the only profitable colony

  524. songbird says:
    @DFH

    Utu proposes that he, living or vacationing in Switzerland, knows the solution to America’s long festering racial problems which are on the cusp of turning us into something worse than Venezuela (which doesn’t have Somalis). And what is his solution?

    Why, the numinous negro. I guess Americans like me were not seeing the woods for the trees. We let our racism blind us. They weren’t the problem, but the solution to the problem. We have to humor them and cater to their whims, while ignoring a concept like intelligence. A few more trillions, the rest of our cities and they will turn on the other members of their anti-white coalition! Utu, has solved our problems by rejecting “The Bell Curve.” I guess to follow his advice we will have to import more blacks before we can import less.

    Maybe, if we elected a black president. One like Herman Caine who represents the views of about 3% of his fellows, that would flip the black vote.

  525. songbird says:
    @Epigon

    What was that place in Central Asia Lenin invaded for oil? I cannot say definitely, but I would think they would be happier with their oil. Russia just may have got more value out than they put in, with regard to that one case. Though, I am sure that on the balance, the Soviets were a loss to Russia.

    Difficulty with independence though, is they tend to nationalize mineral assets.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  526. @utu

    Croatia is neither fake nor gay, unlike Czechia which is a country of whores and faggots.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  527. @Spisarevski

    Czech Republic looks pretty prosperous, at least Prague does. What struck me most was very cheap classical music concerts by highly skilled musicians in many churches. Apparently, “bloody communist regime” overproduced musicians capable of playing classical music. I guess that was a sign of oppression.

    Croatia is a very poor country by comparison. I was in Zagreb a few years back. My God, it looks pathetic, poorer than provincial Russian cities. The cherry on the cake was the cable car to the upper city that did not work (had “Ne vozi” sign on it). That sign looked like the summary of Zagreb.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @AP
  528. @songbird

    You are right, Soviet system was a huge drag on Russia. Now Russia shook off a lot of parasites, “brotherly” Soviet republics as well as “brotherly” socialist countries. It acquired new parasites, oligarchs, but apparently they don’t suck as much blood out of Russia as those Soviet-era leaches.

    Today Russia looks a lot more prosperous than it did in Soviet times. Not only Moscow, which is now more impressive than any European capital, but even provincial cities, at least regional capitals (didn’t see others). Many former “brothers” from happily independent post-Soviet republics are gastarbeiters in Russia, mostly doing low-paid menial work that Russians are unwilling to do. The mills of God grind slowly…

  529. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Czechs and Moravians always liked to play music a lot and organized their own bands. I do not think that what you saw communists should take credit for. In fact in Bohemia and Moravia there is hardly anything good that communists could take credit for. While in some Eastern Block countries which had high levels of illiteracy and poverty before the WWII communists can take credit for eradication of poverty and illiteracy but for Czechs everything what communists brought was a ride downhill. Though Slovaks may have a different opinion because in Eastern Slovakia there was a dire poverty before the WWII. Just like in Eastern Poland or Romania. People did not wear shoes or they carried them in hands when going to church to wear them only when inside the church. I saw this documentary of Wehrmacht going though Ukraine or in Russia already and village women on the field who were watching them all were barefoot. They were not doing it for health reason or spiritual reason to get in touch with the goddess Gaia.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @LH
  530. @utu

    As you appear to know so much about Czech Republic, any comment on “saint” Vaclav Havel’s property he got via restitution after Velvet revolution? This paper says that he kicked lots of people out of their apartments to retake his family’s property: https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/27/the-czech-republic-and-the-fine-art-of-collaboration/

    Cynics say that people usually rewrite history with the view of rewriting property titles. Are they right? Just asking.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @LH
  531. AP says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Croatia has the same per capita income GDP PPP as Russia, which means that Moscow is much richer than Zagreb but the rest of Croatia is richer than the rest of Russia.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  532. @AP

    As former British PM Benjamin Disraeli once said, “there are lies, damned lies, and statistics”.

  533. @German_reader

    it’s not clear the arrangement is anti-western, I mean yes it’s inimical to you and me for example, or most everyone here for that matter, but favorable to US or British foreign policy as it has been conceived for decades. They used the Saudi card in Afghanistan, in Chechnya, in Syria basically sub-contracting terrorist operations to them; something they do have expertise in but where they also provide a useful cover. The Qataris are another big provider of such services. Even the Kuwaitis, at times.

    Think how Russia, China and India all have seditious muslim minorities and the potential for destabilization. How could you relinquish such a card?

  534. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I was thinking of he Treaty of Bjorkoe:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Bj%C3%B6rk%C3%B6

    The Kaiser and Tsar on their own signed a mutual treaty. The full force of German and Russian government officials broke up this treaty between monarchs which would have assured peace in Europe.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  535. utu says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Thank you for the link to this excellent article about Czechs. While I do not share the POV and sentiments of this old revolutionary and idealist communist believer who wrote the paper the article is pretty accurate and shows the other side rarely shown and spoken about Czechs. I think I had several conversation about it with “German Reader” and “reiner Tor” here, where I tried to rectify the view of naive Tor that Czechs were justified to exact a terrible revenge on German civilians after the WWII. Czechs have no sentiments with respect to the strangers. They can be rude towards them for no reason. They only play for themselves. The writer is right on the money when he says:

    Czechs collaborated, pretended to be the greatest revolutionaries and supporters of the liberation struggles worldwide. But deep inside, they felt no attachments; they had no allegiances.

    but I do not share his bitterness and disappointment. The writer is an old idealistic fool. But as I said his observations are correct.

    The most important question is why do Czechs have a such good press as if their shit did not stink? Who holds the protective umbrella above them? Why they do not get the bad rap on Jewish issues? There are many books and films about Jewish topics related to ancient Prague where the Jewish magicians lived and practiced their secret art but the Czechs, when they appear in the background, are never maligned like Poles or Russians are maligned when the Jewish topics are covered. Even Slovaks who had the worst record in WWII with respect to Jews, who they shipped to Auschwitz out of their own will, on their own cost w/o any attempt to exercise their sovereignty to protect Jews unlike Hungarians, Romanians or Bulgarians manage to be protected by this mysterious umbrella.

    So I have this wacky theory that very long time ago Bohemia and its elites were incorporate into some bigger power network in Europe that stood against the Catholic Church. This is where a very successful Jan Hus heresy started in 14/15 century that when finally Bohemia was incorporated into the Catholic Hapsburg Empire they remained lukewarm towards the Church and treated it as Nazis or Communist in 20 century. Jan Komensky was a very important figure during Reformation and traveling through Europe between England and other countries that were going through Reformation and Counter Reformation process. So my hypothesis is that Bohemia was and remains a representative an outpost of British interests in Central Europe.

    As far as Havel I always thought him to be a fraud and phony. He became a darling of the West liberal intellectuals. One day he would say that Czechoslovakia would stop selling weapons which was broadcasted all over the world and few weeks later quietly they keep selling their tanks, semtex and so on. They always had big armament industry. If Czechoslovakia was not given to Hitler and if its industry was destroyed, Germany would not be able to wage 5 years long war. An when finally American bombed few places there towards the end of the war, after the war they paid to Czechoslovakia for the damage. Apart from the case of accidental bombing of Switzerland it hasn’t happen anywhere else. Tell me, where do Czechs get this power of persuasion?

    I believe that their lustration was correct and re-privatization also was correct. Whether it was heartless and brutal I do not know, so I can’t say if Havel and his family acted badly when they obtained rights to the properties that were confiscated by the communist.

    Here is some Canadian/Israeli guy and probably gay guy who spent quiet a lot of time in Czechia and little bit of time in Poland and makes some comparison about attitudes that he encountered which in my opinion are accurate. Poles often tend to bend over backwards when dealing with Westerners in particular but Czechs are not impressed. See after 3:50 min:

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @utu
    , @Matra
  536. dfordoom says: • Website
    @sean42

    Let us have a debate here, are authoritarian regimes basically the only way that a country can avoid getting pozzed? And in order to continue to avoid getting sucked up on cultural degeneracy it needs to maintain an autocracy?

    I don’t see how you can keep out the Poz except by force. If you leave the door open just a tiny crack the Poz will start seeping in. The door has to be locked and bolted and hermetically sealed. You have to restrict freedoms to some extent. You have to be able to say that a particular movie is disgusting filth so therefore it’s going to be banned. You have to be able to say that a particular recording artist is a purveyor of filth so their music is not going to be available in your country. You have to be able to say that things like Gay Pride parades promote degeneracy so therefore they’re not gonna happen.

    Which means you have to exert a large measure of control over the internet content that can be accessed.

    Given the current status of the U.S. as Poz Central that would meaning banning at least 95% of American popular culture.

    I can’t imagine a non-authoritarian government being able to do any of that.

  537. @utu

    where I tried to rectify the view of naive Tor that Czechs were justified to exact a terrible revenge on German civilians after the WWII

    iirc that discussion was rather about the character of German occupation policy in the protectorate, we didn’t really discuss the expulsions of the Sudeten Germans.
    I don’t see why you think Czechs have an exceptionally positive reputation abroad…it seems to me more like nobody really thinks about Czechs in any special way. Sort of like Denmark or Switzerland maybe.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @for-the-record
  538. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    Minimize the influence of ivory towers by not allowing colleges to grow too much.

    Close most of them down. How many arts graduates do you actually need? A tiny handful compared to the vast numbers being churned out at the moment.

  539. Thomm says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Heh. This is exactly the type of comment that can get Thorfinsson tagged as being ‘Indian’ by the White Trashionalists. The same has happened to him before, as well as to me, Jeff Stryker, and DB Cooper.

    According to the White Trashionalists, anyone who knows anything about India is ‘Indian’.

    • Replies: @utu
  540. utu says:
    @German_reader

    The discussion began with the statement by you or Tor of Czechs being angry with Germans to which I tried to show how was the actual occupation of the Protectorate by the ‘Nazis’ so the Czechs did not have much reason to be upset. To which Tor was coming with stories of some Nazis he saw in Hollywood and in books written by people who also help write screenplays for Hollywood. Typical schmalz and schlock history w/o a human touch.

    I think a lot about Denmark and Switzerland and I am sure many other people do but not everybody is connecting the dots. And certainly you are not known here for being a dot connector.

  541. @utu

    To which Tor was coming with stories of some Nazis he saw in Hollywood and in books written by people who also help write screenplays for Hollywood.

    That’s a misrepresentation. And I actually posted some extracts from Gerwarth’s Heydrich biography about executions and other repressive measures in the protectorate. That’s not Hollywood movies (in fact, I’d say that Heydrich biography is rather different from the Hollywood Nazi stereotype).

    I think a lot about Denmark and Switzerland

    I can’t remember you ever having written anything about them here.

    And certainly you are not known here for being a dot connector.

    If one’s too much into dot connecting without regard for supporting evidence, one runs the risk of turning into a cranky fantasist.
    Anyway, it’s disappointing that even with Christmas approaching you’re in such an uncharitable mood.

    • Replies: @utu
  542. utu says:
    @Thomm

    As a White Trashionalists I have no doubt that you are Indian Hindu-Dindu who long ago should have had his ass sent back to India to transfer the western know-how of sanitary engineering. Do something for your country and stop worrying about Whites here or anywhere. Teach your compatriots how to take a crap in a civilize manner so their asses are as brown as their natural complexion and not a speck browner.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  543. utu says:
    @German_reader

    That’s a misrepresentation. – I will look into it. If I find the thread. Actually I vaguely remember there were two threads.

    uncharitable mood – I am charitable towards children and the feebleminded. I do not see you belonging to either category.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  544. @utu

    It was in this thread (though the issues had also been discussed in earlier threads iirc):
    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/constantinople-heresy/

    • Replies: @utu
  545. utu says:
    @German_reader

    Thanks for the link. This is what I see. In the comment #197 reiner Tor says to Buster Keaton:

    “The Czechs had a lot of reasons to hate the Germans, but the Slovaks not so much.”

    So I predictably interjected with the comment #200 which begins with this:

    “For what? That German soldiers were sent to spend their furloughs to Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia because it was the safest place for Germans to be in the whole Europe? “

    Now you have a chance to show your pre-Christmas charitable spirit and apologize for suggesting that I was misrepresenting (see my comment #555 in this thread).

    Merry Christmans!

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @reiner Tor
  546. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    The surviving royals of Europe seem such a sorry, pozzed lot. I don’t have a lot of faith in monarchy – maybe that only happens in a constitutional system and Queen Elizabeth would be pushing people out of helicopters were it otherwise – I don’t know.

    Constitutional monarchy is an oxymoron. Either you’re king or you’re not. If you don’t have the power to throw people out of helicopters you’re not an actual king. You’re a worthless parasite like Elizabeth the Useless.

    The last king of England was James II.

    Nicholas II was right to resist the idea of a constitution. He knew his cousin Georgie was a nice enough chap but a mere figurehead.

  547. @utu

    I still think Czechs had reasons for strong anti-German sentiment because of the occupation (though I’m under no illusions that Czech behaviour in 1945 was quite ugly; the expulsions were also indiscriminate and targeted the minority of anti-Nazi Sudeten Germans like Social democrats just as much as committed Nazi activists).
    It’s just a matter of differring interpretations and emphases.
    Merry Christmas to you as well!

    • Replies: @utu
  548. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Felix Keverich

    That’s a large shopping list for such a puny military budget – $1.21 billion in 2017. A single American fighter jet will cost you $100 million, and I’m talking about F-16, not F-35. And don’t even think about modern air-defense systems – this stuff is w-way out of your league!

    Modern western militaries are never going to be used to defend their own countries so it doesn’t matter. The generals feel much more important and the soldiers have some cool toys to play with. And if they’re lucky they’ll get to die in the sacred cause of the American Empire.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  549. dfordoom says: • Website
    @reiner Tor

    It’s the kind of stuff that could start ww3.

    You say that like it’s a bad thing. Don’t you watch American movies? War is fun. OK, WW3 might destroy civilisation but it’s worth it to force those Russkies to have Gay Pride marches.

    • LOL: Talha
  550. reezy says:

    Another example: the Chinese province of Taiwan

  551. Thomm says:
    @utu

    Thanks for swiftly volunteering to prove my point about the stupidity of you and your ilk. You previously said Thorfinsson was an Indian as well. How stupid could you be?

    Plus, as a black African, don’t you have a child to eat or something? I recall you telling us that your idol is General Butt Naked of Liberia.

    Lastly, I already instructed you about how to use your face to solve India’s toilet situation (since you are so excited by the situation). Why do you demand the same instructions again and again? Surely even your IQ is adequate to understand something told to you three times.

    Heh heh heh heh

  552. Thomm says:
    @songbird

    Since you are not an American – you do not understand how brainwashed blacks are to hate whites.

    Utu is a black African (and an admitted cannibal). His hero is General Butt Naked of Liberia.

    • Replies: @songbird
  553. @AP

    This speaks well of both men.

    Though at the same time, perhaps not.

    • Replies: @AP
  554. dfordoom says: • Website
    @German_reader

    You can’t do that though without a coherent argument against the prevailing human rights ideology of our age, in favour of national community and sovereignty.
    I think we need to realize that the globalist narrative is superficially very attractive to many people (“the human family” coming together, an end to strife and petty differences, a higher level in the development of humanity etc.).

    Unfortunately a coherent argument won’t do you good. The globalist narrative is superficially very attractive on an entirely emotional level. If feels right. Why can’t we all just get along? One big happy family with lots of group hugs.

    You have to oppose this with an equally attractive emotional argument. You need to make nationalism into something that feels right and good.

    • Agree: utu
  555. AP says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Agree. They were both decent men with the right instincts, but were also both weak.

  556. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Art Deco

    The U.S. has influence because it has a large economy and a large military. These can be deployed toward political goals via policy. The notion that ‘permanent global hegemony’ has ever been a goal is a fantasy of yours.

    Rome had influence because it had a large economy and a large military. These could be deployed toward political goals via policy. The notion that ‘permanent global hegemony’ has ever been a Roman goal is pure fantasy.

    The places we’ve tried to impose our will of late would be Afghanistan and Iraq. That’s not the globe. They’re just a couple of problem countries and no one else was up to the task of conquering them.

    The places where Rome has tried to impose its will were just a couple of problem countries and no one else was up to the task of conquering them.

  557. utu says:

    Roman Dmowski on Ukraine in 1930
    https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/08/ukraine-question-1930-part-2.html

    There is no human power capable of stopping an independent Ukraine, torn from Russia, from becoming a playground for the criminal classes of the entire world, for whom there is very little room left in their own countries; capitalists in search of capital, industrialists, technicians, dealers, speculators, men of intrigue, and the initiators of every possible form of prostitution: Germans, French, Belgians, Italians, the English, the Americans—they would all find favor amongst the local Russians, Poles, Armenians, Greeks and, above all, amongst the most important of groups in Ukraine: the Jews. An independent Ukraine would pull in all of the powers of the world and rival the League of Nations for the amount of international interests that would swarm over the country. All of these dynamics, with help from the more clever and self-interested of the Ukrainians, would become the elite of the new nation-state. It would be a unique elite, because no other country on Earth except for an independent Ukraine could claim for itself such an international motley crew of knaves.

    Ukraine would become a cancer on all of Europe; those who would dream of creating a cultured, healthy and strong Ukrainian nation, able to mature within its own state, would soon find that instead of their own state, they actually live in an international corporation, and instead of healthy progress, they will be the victims of destruction and rotting.

    He who believes that given Ukraine’s geography and its scope, and the state in which the Ukrainian element finds itself, with its spiritual and material resources, and above all given the role that the Ukrainian question plays in the global politics of the world—he who believes that things in Ukraine would develop otherwise than what I predict—does not have one single ounce of imagination.

    The Ukrainian Question has many advocates, both in Ukraine itself and beyond its borders. Amongst the latter there are many who know very well what it is that an independent Ukraine will lead to. There are also those who regard the issue with excess casualness. These naïve people would do better if they kept their hands off Ukraine.

    • Agree: anonymous coward
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Simpleguest
    , @AP
  558. @German_reader

    I don’t see why you think Czechs have an exceptionally positive reputation abroad…it seems to me more like nobody really thinks about Czechs in any special way.

    When I was growing up, to the extent that people thought of Czechs it was indeed highly positive — Czechoslovakia would have been another “Switzerland”, if it weren’t for the Communists, and it was certainly differentiated from the other more barbarian (and anti-Semitic) Eastern European countries. The idea that the Czechs had been less than exemplar with respect to Sudeten Germans, Jews and Gypsies was something I only learned very gradually in later life.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @dfordoom
  559. utu says:
    @utu

    Some hidden force made me look up what Dmowski wrote about Ukraine. I found it and posted it in this thread but only now several hours later after I slept some I realized why the hidden force made me look him up. This is because Dmowski in this essay on Ukraine entertains and explicates the same hypothesis about Czechs that I wrote here. Most likely I did get this hypothesis from him when I read his essay on Ukraine many years ago and I forgot about it but my unconscious mind remembered and suddenly made me want to find his easy where he writes nasty things about Ukraine and made me post here this nasty stuff to stir things up in the world of gay and fake countries. It is pretty amazing how the unconsciousness work. Anyway this is what he wrote what is related to the secret hand holding a protective umbrella over the Czechs hypothesis I wrote above:

    Dmowski about the Czechs in his 1930 essay on Ukraine.

    https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/07/ukraine-question-1930-part.html
    A classic instance of national rebirth, and a model for others, are the Czechs. In a country within which only the populations of the small villages spoke Czech, while all of the other classes were German, a Czech national movement was born in the XIX century, which gave rise to a Czech literary language and a rich literary heritage, bringing honor unto itself with its excellent poets and scientists. It organized itself in an excellent manner in economic affairs, and excelled in production. Along the way, it won the cities and created a Czech social elite. It organized excellently in pursuit of its rights and interests and executed an amazingly energetic economics and politics, fully conscious of its interests, which gave unto the Czechs a premier role in the Habsburg monarchy; and upon the dismantling of this monarchy, achieved for the Czechs not only an independent state existence, but unity with Slovaks, Hungarian-Russia and a portion of lands generally Polish.

    Such an imposing story of the rebirth of a nation, supposedly annihilated both politically and in terms of its very civilization, is extraordinary. We will find no similar example to that of the Czechs. We can understand the Czech example only if we recall to mind that Czechs, as a nation, had a long, thousand year history, and that Czech civilization was only destroyed in the XVII century, that in the XVI century, in the golden age of our, Polish civilization, our own poets wrote that the Czech language is older and richer than the Polish language. Such a long uninterrupted tradition and high form of civilization, which other nations awakening to life in the XIX century never had, gave the Czech national movement a rich inner content and became the principle basis of Czech development.

    Parenthetically, one must add that the Czechs, at the height of their power, played a major role in the struggles against Rome, having played a great part in the Protestant Reformation and all of the clandestine unions that stood behind the Reformation. Czech statesmen have reinvigorated these clandestine unions of late, which has given them very intimate relations with dynamic forces in Europe and in America, as well as the energetic support of Czech affairs by these clandestine organizations. However, these ties have left a strong mark on their young nation-state and on the spirit of its politics, and the future may well show us that great troubles lie ahead for the Czech state on their account.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  560. utu says:
    @German_reader

    I do not see here much charity, no contrition on your part and then you double down. Obviously there is matter of differing interpretations and emphasis and there were Nazis an ‘Nazis’ but why do you think you always opt for the interpretation that involves more of the self-flogging. Perhaps you should go to a dominatrix and pay her so she satisfies your masochistic need but stop biting the extended hand that is trying to help you Germans to get back on your feet.

    Merry X-mas again.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  561. Mr. Hack says:
    @utu

    So what is Dmowski’s prescription for the problems that are to be found within Ukraine? Making it a part of Poland? Certainly, he can’t be advocating for making it a part of Russia. He offers no reasonable solutions, becuase his whole premise is flawed. It’s no wonder that Ukrainians have historically exhibited an animosity towards their former ruthless foreign landowning class, when you read this sort of nonsense.

    • Replies: @utu
  562. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Hungary are probably clever to have their non-existing army, as they free-ride on their neighbours (which is not even dependent on American support).

    Hungarian aerial space would probably be defended by Poland.

    And Poland has a strong air force (50 F-16s, 30 Mig-29).

    Another joke is Hungarian land forces – their total tanks are somewhere around 30 T-72.

    But again, their land border are defended by Ukraine and/or Poland.

    Poland have hundreds of tanks, including high quality German tanks. And Ukraine still has a lot of tanks, even as the modernization is far less than they claim.

    Hungary has the tiny defense expenditure, but saving in areas like this contribute to their economic situation. E.g. Hungary have Europe’s lowest corporation tax, while their neighbours Ukraine and Poland, are not.

    Unlike rational Hungary, countries which completely gambled on America/NATO, and without the possibility to free-ride by neighbour’s land army.

    Latvia – 0 tanks.

    Lithuania – 0 tanks.

    Estonia – 0 tanks.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @dfordoom
  563. utu says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Certainly, he can’t be advocating…

    I left links to English translation of his 1930 article. Find for yourself.

    https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/07/ukraine-question-1930-part.html
    https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2014/08/ukraine-question-1930-part-2.html

    The bottom line is he wanted Ukraine to stay with Russia. He believed that using Ukraine as a buffer state would be more dangerous and costly to Poland than dealing with Russia directly. Having Ukraine as part of Poland in some form was out of question. You must understand he was Nationalist. He did not believe in multi-ethnic state.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  564. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    . Slovakia recently ordered 14 F16 at the cost of $1,3 billion.

    I guess the higher price also includes some regular servicing package, training programs, etc.

    That’s how there is often a wild difference between reported unit costs and then the report of the price in the sale of the total package for countries.

    • Replies: @Martin Rapavý
  565. @utu

    Interestingly, “amongst those beyond its borders, who know very well what it is that an independent Ukraine will lead to”, there was one who actually did caution about it.
    It was non other than the late Elder Bush or, colloquially known as, 41 Bush.

    “Yet freedom is not the same as independence. Americans will not support those who seek independence in order to replace a far-off tyranny with a local depotism. They will not aid those who promote a suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred.”

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/revisiting-the-elder-bushs-kiev-speech/

  566. Mr. Hack says:
    @utu

    So Dmowski would include Ukraine within Russia’s orbit, making it all the more of a powerful and menacing traditional enemy? He also gives up on the idea of remaking Ukrainians into Poles, something that was traditionally a Polish response to the ‘Ukrainian problem’? The guy sound like a real fruitcake.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @AP
  567. utu says:
    @Mr. Hack

    What fruitcake? He was one of the most realistic political thinkers on the right in Poland. He made excellent points in this 1930 paper which basically come down to belief that Ukraine is trouble, it is a pile of shit so do not poke it with a stick because the stench will be only worse. Let Russia has the pleasure of dealing with Ukraine. He believed in a modern ethno-nationalist state not in some republic of many nations like the 1st Polish Republic. It was the people on the left like Pilsudski who were more anti-Russian and who saw Ukraine as a buffer state. Pilsudski vision is defining the policy in Poland now but not because of the prevailing anti-Russian sentiments, because sentiment can be manufactured very easily and vectors can be reversed, but because it congeals with what the US wants at the moment.

    I understand that you as Ukrainian would like to argue and convince Poles that the independent Ukraine is Poland’s salvation. This is disingenuous because you are arguing your self-interest. If you win your independence and manage to keep it you will gain respect but now most people care as much about Ukraine as they care about Kurdistan. If Donald puls the plug on you your a goner. Do not expect that other people will fight for your freedom. People do not want trouble and Ukraine is trouble as Dmowski showed. I tend to agree with him.

  568. Mr. Hack says:
    @utu

    Poland’s interests in Ukraine go back centuries and it will not cede these interests to Russia. It’s own economic growth and stability are better suited in a close relationship with Ukraine, and not with Russia. It could become a big player within Ukraine’s future economic growth, whereas within Russia it would drown into insignificance. All that Poland needs is a stronger, larger and reconstituted Russia including Ukraine on its eastern doorstep. No, I think that Ukraine as a buffer state is much more in its interests than letting it slip back into being a Russian protectorate.

  569. AP says:
    @utu

    Dmowski also pushed for the annexation of Galicia and was certain that the Galicians would eventually be assimilated into normal and loyal Poles. It did not turn out well; Dmowski set the stage for the massacres of 100,000 Poles by frenzied Ukrainians in the mid 20th century.

    He opposed Pilsudski’s project (an independent Ukraine linked to Poland, which would make Poland’s situation more secure due to Russia’s greater weakness) and wanted Ukraine to become part of Russia. This is what happend. It did not turn out well for his Poland, either.

    However there is some truth in his description of Ukraine’s mess.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  570. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    Obviously the Baltic would not stand a chance in a normal conflict. It is an interesting question to me though whether tanks may be needed in the future, just to maintain a border. (against hordes of Africans)

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Dmitry
  571. AP says:
    @utu

    He was one of the most realistic political thinkers on the right in Poland.

    He thought Poland should keep and assimilate the Ukrainians in Galicia. He formulated policies between the war that brought those Galicians into a murderous anti-Polish frenzy. So the loss of Lwow is largely his work.

    He was responsible for giving up large swathes of territory at the treaty of Riga. The Soviets themselves were shocked by the stupidy. This made Poland much more vulnerable and reduced its buffer zone (Stalin, being more clever, grabbed as much territory as he could get his hands on), making its defeat much easier.

    So he was a fool, despite accurately describing Ukraine as a potential mess. Though his words are more prophetic for the Ukraine of 2014 than for the one of 2018.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  572. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I think that is the thing about Arabia: Europeans conquer it and that would seriously antagonize China. China conquers it and that would seriously antagonize Europe. Much of the Middle East survives on the balanced geopolitical concerns of other nations. Plus the world is pozzed.

    I think there is really only one half-sane argument for the US to be in the Middle East – the ability to close off oil to China, in the event of war. But that is really crazy because of MADD. Initiating an embargo pre-emptively would probably bring about war.

    There is a certain appeal to turning the tables – invading the places that are invading us. But I’d only advocate such for smoothing over the resettlement process. Ideally, in my view, we would pull out after the deed was accomplished and Africans would not even know we exist. Oral history being an unreliable way to transmit knowledge.

  573. @for-the-record

    The idea that the Czechs had been less than exemplar with respect to Sudeten Germans, Jews and Gypsies was something I only learned very gradually in later life.

    I don’t know, isn’t there at least some reality to Czechs’ good reputation? It was the only country in East Central Europe/Eastern Europe that actually stayed a democracy during the 1930s after all. Certainly with flaws, but which state doesn’t have any?
    The expulsions of the Sudeten Germans were quite nasty of course, though the idea that Sudeten Germans were a fifth column which had to be removed for the security of the state wasn’t unreasonable given the events of the late 1930s. What Poland did (outright stealing a huge amount of pre-war German territory to which the Polish state had no legitimate claim) was much worse.
    As far as I know, antisemitism also didn’t play much of a role in Czech politics before 1938; and Czechs also didn’t have any influence on the deportations of Jews during the German occupation, so I’m not sure what they should feel guilty about.
    As for gypsies, they are a problem population, and I doubt they are treated unreasonably harsh by Czechs (probably rather the opposite).

  574. @utu

    you always opt for the interpretation that involves more of the self-flogging

    Not true at all, in fact I’ve come to the conclusion that Germany’s warped politics of remembrance need to be drastically revised. The cult of guilt which is constantly used as justification for insane policies and out of control “humanitarianism” needs to end.
    However, the proposals usually advanced by commenters on Unz review mostly aren’t helpful.

    • Replies: @songbird
  575. Matra says:
    @utu

    The most important question is why do Czechs have a such good press as if their shit did not stink? Who holds the protective umbrella above them?

    Given the influence artists have in the media I’d say Czech New Wave cinema and later Milos Forman’s Hollywood films, Milan Kundera, the playwright President hanging out with Lou Reed and the Rolling Stones all played a role in the English (and French) speaking countries. Dubcek’s “socialism with a human face” appealed to Western liberals who then saw lots of photos of it being crushed by Soviet tanks; Budapest 1956 was too long ago and there weren’t many photos from there. Prague was considered the hippest place for American college students to hang out in during the 90s. Poland has a lot of admirers in the West but they are usually unhip conservatives and Christians.

  576. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    I believe it is difficult because it is basically evolutionary. Politics is a ruthless struggle for resources. it has its own winnowing process, its own tooth, nail, venom, and camoflouge. What exists now is what was tested, survived and thrived in the postwar environment. The seed was probably planted by foreign hands in the de-Nazification process, but it took, and spread wildly outward like a noxious weed to Sweden and points much further.

    Of course, by analogy, there were extinction level events, when the environment or prey changed dramatically. T-rex and even the megalodon died off. Maybe, the charge of racist/Nazi/anti-semite will die off too.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  577. @utu

    you as Ukrainian

    He’s not a Ukrainian. He’s some N-th generation American idiot who wouldn’t recognize a real Ukrainian if one bit him in the ass. Dollars to donuts his N-th generation ancestors in the “home” country weren’t even Ukrainians, they were Jews and assorted Polish/Russian mongrels.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @AP
    , @Mr. Hack
  578. @songbird

    The problem is that it actually has gotten worse and more extreme with distance in time from the Nazi era. Even over the last 20 years there has been a noticeable shift imo (maybe due to the fact that with most of WW2-era Germans dead now, blanket condemnation of them has become much easier).
    And the attitude isn’t limited to the Nazi era, but extends also into the past and the present. Even CDU politicians now want to extend the politics of remembrance to German colonial atrocities, so there’s another thing to feel guilty about (which would also establish the narrative that we owe Africans, so we couldn’t resist African mass immigration). And in the present there’s a very noticeable double standard regarding German and non-German victims of violence…when some Neonazi assaults or kills a migrant (something which rarely happens nowadays, so the lying media have to invent cases), it’s a national tragedy, and all the rituals of self-denunciation and German collective guilt are rolled out. By contrast, even the German victims of Islamic terror attacks are instantly memory-holed (this was very strikingly illustrated by the reaction to the terror attack on the Christmas market in Berlin, with the strong contrast to the national mourning and public funerals for the victims from Italy and Poland). All the more so for the victims of “ordinary” crime (e.g. those “What you’re looking at” cases where some lone German gets beaten to death by groups of migrants for trivial reasons)…the reaction is always that the biggest worry is this could be politically exploited by right-wingers.
    To some extent this double standard of course exists also in other Western countries (e.g. in Britain, with its cult of Stephen Lawrence), but my impression is it’s especially extreme in Germany, and that there is some connection to the warped view of WW2 that has taken hold over the last 30-40 years.

    • Replies: @songbird
  579. songbird says:
    @Thomm

    Utu is a black African who eats the hearts of other black Africans, thus forever gaining in the blackety blackness of his spirit/ the darkness of his heart?

    Utu, what say you to that summation? Does it not describe you to a T? How many other black souls have you quickened with? Or “snakes”, as I believe they are called in Africa?

    • Agree: Thomm
  580. Thomm says:
    @anonymous coward

    Utu is a black African. His handle is short for ‘Mobutu’ or ‘Hutu’. Hence, he can scarcely contain his cannibalistic urges. Looking at his comment history proves this.

    He is also a homosexual, as evidenced by his sickening obsession with human feces, but that is secondary to his cannibalism.

  581. @utu

    The Czechs seem to me to be more like Ireland or Wales but with the good luck that the Holy Roman Empire didn’t gel into a country until there were rules about things. (Austro-Hungary helped as well).

  582. @dfordoom

    Natinalists like the Brexiteers, Gilets Jaunes and AfD could yet bring us to European war if they break up the EU.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @dfordoom
  583. songbird says:
    @German_reader

    I once went to a concentration-camp museum. The tour guide was German – but an exceedingly weird fellow. A natural outsider who would probably ally with foreigners at his first chance, as you often see people with a lot of tattoos or piercings do. Japanese do not seem to be as into body modification.

    The art was like all Holocaust/famine/lynching art – exceedingly bad. That is always an interesting psychological facet of it. The ease with which it seems to have been created, employing people who obviously have no talent. Maybe, based on ethnic credentials. It seems to be a reflection of the political dynamic – the ease with which it succeeds.

    Holy, fuck! I just did some research. I went there with group of young school kids. There now seems to be a new Holocaust memorial in their very neighborhood – though much smaller. It is located in housing built during the war to house bombed-out families. And when I say neighborhood – I mean neighborhood.

  584. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    So Dmowski would include Ukraine within Russia’s orbit, making it all the more of a powerful and menacing traditional enemy?

    I once read in some Polish newspaper that Dmowski was a homosexual who was being blackmailed by Russian intelligence to serve their interests. I have no idea how true that is.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  585. AP says:
    @anonymous coward

    The spectacular record of being wrong about everything continues.

  586. @utu

    What I wrote means something, and then there’s a meaning in your head, and there’s very little if any connection between the two. I didn’t write that the Czechs were “justified” in ethnically cleansing the Sudeten Germans. I just wrote that they had a lot of reasons to hate the Germans. Which is undoubtedly true. Where did you get the nonsense about the ethnic cleansing? Your reading comprehension skills need some improvement.

  587. @Philip Owen

    That argument is often brought up in what passes for political discussion in Germany, and I find it totally unconvincing. It seems excedingly unlikely to me that there will ever be a major interstate war between countries in Western and central Europe again. Europe doesn’t have the young men and armies necessary for that today, and the old nationalism that was about enmities with neighbours and territorial expansion is totally dead. Does anybody really believe that Germany will ever fight again over Alsace-Lorraine or the lost Eastern territories?
    Such conflicts may still be possible in the Balkans or parts of Eastern Europe, but not in core EU countries.
    The real risk for violent strife in western and central Europe imo today is some sort of civil conflict because of the issues related to immigration and Islam; and the preferences of the EU establishment as it is today are likely to increase that risk.
    AfD btw isn’t in favour of breaking up the EU, its position is more that there shouldn’t be more transfers of sovereignty to EU institutions and that the EU needs to be reformed.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  588. @utu

    This is not unique to Czechia. Part of the wave of Liberalism following the French Revolution was the creation of small nationalities typically by the rising new class of school teachers using the vernacular to teach reading and writing to the artisan class. Peasant vernaculars or faded court languages like Norwegian, many variations of Slavic, Catalan, Occitanian became the centre of the creation of new nations. Genuinely distinct languages like Welsh and Basque also benefited too, although in the Welsh case earlier due to Wales position as an epicentre of the industrial revolution. Not all small languages managed to mount this bandwagon. Erse, Scots, Frisian, the Italian/German regional dialects took a different path.

    Why did German and Italian, even French unite while Slavic disintegrated even in the Russian Empire (which included Poland at the critical time)?

  589. @German_reader

    Then I could be a member of AfD. I am a Remainer Eurosceptic.

  590. @German_reader

    You’re right about the Jews, and the Gypsies are a minor issue (for me, anyway). However, the mistreatment of the Sudeten Jews was not only after the 2nd World War — perhaps more importantly during the period 1918-38, when the Czechs essentially tried to carry out a policy of “Czechification” under which hundreds of thousands of Czechs were settled in traditionally-German Sudeten territories. Also the radical “land reform” that was carried out, which significantly reduced German land holdings.

  591. @German_reader

    Sudeten Germans were a fifth column which had to be removed for the security of the state wasn’t unreasonable

    However, by that logic, the Czechs were also a fifth column both in Austria-Hungary and in Nazi Germany, so their ethnic cleansing would have been justified.

    The Czechs had no business lording over so many Germans who had lived there for at least half a millennium or more, and if they did anyway, at least they shouldn’t have expected loyalty from them.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  592. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    He opposed Pilsudski’s project (an independent Ukraine linked to Poland, which would make Poland’s situation more secure due to Russia’s greater weakness) and wanted Ukraine to become part of Russia. This is what happend. It did not turn out well for his Poland, either.

    An independent Ukraine linked to Poland as in a puppet state of Poland – something that the majority of Ukrainians opposed.

  593. @reiner Tor

    However, by that logic

    That’s true, and tbh I have don’t have much sympathy anymore for the arguments used by Czech or Polish nationalists to justify the post-war expulsions. The arguments used by Poles (even today) to justify their annexations of huge territories that were undoubtedly majority German and an internationally recognized part of pre-war Germany (e.g. “these territories had always been Slavic and were just recovered”) are more than a little similar imo to Nazi claims about recovering lost Germanic land.
    Contrary to what Utu claims, I’m not a national masochist, and I tend more and more to the view that the official historical narrative of the federal republic about 1914-1945 is absurdly one-sided and needs to be revised. One should avoid falling into the other extreme though.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  594. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    So he was a fool, despite accurately describing Ukraine as a potential mess. Though his words are more prophetic for the Ukraine of 2014 than for the one of 2018.

    In comparison, Pilsudski had the attributes of an unrealistic nationalist fool, whose stances didn’t work out well for Poland:

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/08042016-fuzzy-history-how-poland-saved-the-world-from-russia-analysis/

    In bragging terms, the Ukraine of 2018 isn’t so much better than the one in 2014. The latter’s statistically measured economic successes is relative to Ukraine’s dependency on the IMF – which (if continued) can be ominous for Ukriane’s long term.

  595. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    I once read in some Polish newspaper that Dmowski was a homosexual who was being blackmailed by Russian intelligence to serve their interests. I have no idea how true that is.

    Unsubstantiated BS that the likes of yourself would underhandedly give credence to. Probably came from a rabid a pro-Pilsudski venue.

  596. Mikhail says:
    @German_reader

    The arguments used by Poles (even today) to justify their annexations of huge territories that were undoubtedly majority German and an internationally recognized part of pre-war Germany (e.g. “these territories had always been Slavic and were just recovered”) are more than a little similar imo to Nazi claims about recovering lost Germanic land.

    My own experience is that the Poles at large don’t dispute the aforementioned western territory gained from Germany, as part of a Soviet redrawing that saw Poland’s pre-WW II eastern boundaries that went to the, Lithuanian, Byelorrusian and Ukrainian SSRs.

    Bottom line is this redrawing was done by the USSR – not Poland. Poland went along with it because it frankly had no choice.

    • Replies: @German_reader
  597. @Mikhail

    Poland went along with it because it frankly had no choice.

    And I’m sure they were terribly unhappy about it.
    iirc at least parts of the Polish government in exile in Britain actually lobbied for such territorial revision even during WW2 (though of course not for giving up what was then eastern Poland, that was Stalin’s contribution), and Polish ultra-nationalists had certainly laid the intellectual groundwork for it even before WW2. All that nonsense about the recovery of Slavic lands isn’t exactly a communist programme. It would probably be most accurate to say that the communists adopted this project to win support in Poland (it was probably the only thing they ever did that was genuinely popular).
    Of course it wouldn’t have happened without previous German aggression and extreme crimes during the German occupation. And in general it would be better not to dredge up those issues again (though Poland might eventually succeed in doing that, if Polish right-wingers are crazy enough to go through with their reparations demands).

  598. Mr. Hack says:
    @anonymous coward

    He’s some N-th generation American idiot who wouldn’t recognize a real Ukrainian if one bit him in the ass.

    Oh come on, you can give me a little bit more credit than this? I can definitely recognize you for the blithering idiot that you are…all hot air and no substance! 🙂

  599. dfordoom says: • Website
    @for-the-record

    When I was growing up, to the extent that people thought of Czechs it was indeed highly positive — Czechoslovakia would have been another “Switzerland”, if it weren’t for the Communists, and it was certainly differentiated from the other more barbarian (and anti-Semitic) Eastern European countries.

    Perhaps it was that way in the U.S. but here in Australia it certainly wasn’t true. Eastern Europeans were all considered to be basically harmless. Whether they were Czechs or Poles or Latvians or Hungarians or even Russians they were all pretty well liked. They were thought of as being slightly less “foreign” than Greeks or or Italians who were thought of as wogs. Greeks and Italians were well liked also – wog was just a descriptive term, like calling Englishmen Poms or Americans Yanks. But eastern Europeans were thought of as being closer to Anglos.

    I can’t recall anyone ever thinking that Czechs were special.

    • Replies: @anon
  600. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Hungary are probably clever to have their non-existing army, as they free-ride on their neighbours (which is not even dependent on American support).

    To be honest it probably doesn’t make much difference. If a Great Power decides to stomp you it doesn’t matter if you have a non-existent military, or a tiny military, or a slightly bigger military. You’re still going to get stomped.

    Even if it’s a smallish neighbouring country that decides to stomp you they’re not going to risk it unless they get the green light from a Great Power. In which case you’re screwed anyway.

    WW2 is instructive. Denmark had virtually no army and they resisted the Germans for about ten minutes. Czechoslovakia and Poland had reasonably modern medium-sized militaries and thought they had the support of the French and the British. They got stomped because Great Powers can crush smaller nations any time they choose to. Poland resisted fiercely and they ended up suffering a lot more than Denmark.

    In military terms any nation that lacks a large modern military is fake and gay.

    Of course in 1940 the French had an enormous military and France still turned out to be fake and gay.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Dmitry
  601. dfordoom says: • Website
    @songbird

    It is an interesting question to me though whether tanks may be needed in the future, just to maintain a border. (against hordes of Africans)

    To maintain a border against hordes of Africans you need the guts and the will to do so. Tanks won’t help if you’re totally emasculated and you consider virtue-signalling to be more important than survival.

    If you’re a nation of surrender monkeys there’s no point in buying tanks you’ll never have the guts to use.

    • Replies: @songbird
  602. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Philip Owen

    Natinalists like the Brexiteers, Gilets Jaunes and AfD could yet bring us to European war if they break up the EU.

    There’s been peace in Europe since 1945 for one reason. Nuclear annihilation. After 1945 the Europeans were convinced that any future war would turn into a nuclear war. Butchering each other was no longer worth the risk.

    It was nothing to do with the EU.

    It wasn’t really NATO either. Without NATO the European states would still have been afraid to start a war because of the certainty that the U.S. and the Soviet Union would be drawn in and pretty soon the missiles would be flying and Europe would be reduced to a heap of radioactive ash.

    NATO made war more likely, rather than less. Fortunately the fear of nuclear annihilation was still enough to prevent a European war.

  603. songbird says:
    @dfordoom

    Current indications are not especially promising for the Baltics. I don’t expect a Camp of the Saints ending for the whole of civilization though. There will be force, and maybe war. Either the globalists will run over Europeans with tanks, or there will be military coups against them, or else the resisting countries will expand/set puppet regimes.

    We may all have to learn Hungarian, Russian, or Mandarin. It is better than being stuck through with a Bantu spear though.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  604. @DFH

    Just when I thought that I had seen every variety of anti-Angloism

    Calling that bit of thoughtless, agitated blather a “variety” is something of stretch. Anti-Angloism is typically tendentious and embittered, but there is generally at least an attempt at a thoughtful argument (even if by the time it becomes an internet comment, the argument has been reduced to a mere insult).

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  605. @songbird

    Trust me, you don’t want to learn Hungarian, Russian, or Mandarin. None is good for a non-native speaker. Hungarian is not similar to any European language, except Finnish, but Finns would beg to differ. When I see a written Hungarian word, the only thing I feel is panic.
    Russian has more complicated grammar than French, and that’s saying something. All nouns have gender (there are three, feminine, masculine, and neutral). Verbs change based on tense (past, present, and future, fewer than in French), as well as gender, have singular and plural, and differ depending on the inclination of the noun. Each noun has six forms (inclinations) depending on its role in the sentence. Plus the number of idioms and cultural references is enormous. Not to mention that a native speaker can construct complete sentences using exclusively swearwords, and another native speaker would understand perfectly, leaving non-native speakers baffled.
    Chinese is grammatically much simpler, but the writing is a bitch (even simplified mainland writing is anything but simple). To make it harder for a non-native speaker, Chinese is a tonal language. It has four tones, and the same word intoned differently has a different meaning and is written differently.

    But don’t worry, you won’t need to learn either of these languages to be protected from savages. The world that emerges after the Empire crashes won’t have much use for Soroses and Rothschilds, but will have use for English and Spanish.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @songbird
    , @DFH
  606. @Cyrano

    If it wasn’t for the Russians, the degenerates from the west would have been able to prove by now that they are superior to the Slavs. Insignificant nations like mine wouldn’t be able to do anything to refute those claims. Neither would the designated but-kissers like Croats, Ukrainians, Polish and the other Slavic untermensch.

    Western Europeans are better than us in pretty much every way that matters. Does saying that make me a “butt-kisser” or an idolater of some sort? I don’t see it that way. I am grateful that they have provided us with a model to emulate (aside from the multiracial