The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersRussian Reaction Blog
Equality Before the Law
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New Reply
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

The American Interest’s Karina Orlova writes:

A group of young independent filmmakers (Sota Vision) captured a moment that perfectly sums up not just what it was like yesterday in Moscow, but also what it’s like living in Russia these days. This is the reward you get for going out of your way to praise a dictator.

(Original).

His protestations of his “innocence” in the police van went unheeded.

Predictably, this video evokes a gushing flood of Schadenfreude amongst anti-Putinists, while pro-Putinists experience a jittery “there but for the grace of God go I” feeling.

But from a neutral perspective, how exactly does this reflect badly on “teh regime.”

What we see in it is unsanctioned protesters getting treated the same under the law, regardless of their fealty or lack thereof to the national leader.

This is the marker of civilization.

Let’s compare and contrast to Ukraine, the country where Navalnyites won – and what the Western elites want for Russia.

There, anti-war protesters are not only arrested, but jailed, whereas on the rare occasions that much more aggressive Maidanist “activists” are arrested they are let off with apologies soon after.

In fact, in Ukraine, so long as you belong to the appropriate faction, you can even shoot taxi drivers with pneumatic pistols for refusing to chant “Glory to Ukraine” along with you and get off with just house arrest.

This is the marker of barbarism.

 
• Category: Miscellaneous • Tags: Color Revolution, Law, Russia 
Hide 34 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
    []
  1. Its only Rule of Law when the West practices it, Mr. Karlin.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
    AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
    These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
    Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
    Sharing Comment via Twitter
    /akarlin/equality-before-the-law/#comment-1904250
    More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  2. Mr. Hack says:

    In fact, in Ukraine, so long as you belong to the appropriate faction, you can even shoot taxi drivers with pneumatic pistols for refusing to chant “Glory to Ukraine” along with you and get off with just house arrest.

    Anatoly, it looks like you’ll stoop to any low level to try to denigrate Ukrainian society. At least the Ukrainian nut job that you mention was arrested and sits and awaits trial. How about the various Russian nut jobs, higher up the food chain, that are responsible for closing the only Ukrainian language library in Moscow, that’s been operating for decades? Most likely, the ghost of Bandera was the motivating force behind this truly ‘BARBARIC’ act:

    Haran: Closure of the Ukrainian library in Moscow and persecution of its chief librarian is “symbolic”

    PONARS Eurasia 12 Jun 2017
    (Ukrainian Weekly) Russia’s timeworn orchestrated efforts to denigrate Ukrainian identity and culture were on full display this week when a judge convicted the head of the country’s only state-run Ukrainian literature library located in Moscow for “extremism.”

    A municipal court on June 5 in the capital gave Natalia Sharina, a native Muscovite and ethnic Russian, a four-year suspended sentence for “inciting national enmity or hatred.”

    Ostensibly, it was because a banned book authored by a Ukrainian nationalist was found at the library. Ms. Sharina insists the book was planted at the library, which was established in 1989 during the twilight of the Soviet Union. [...]

    Closure of the Ukrainian library and subsequent persecution of its chief librarian is “symbolic,” said Olexiy Haran, a political scientist and professor at the National University of Kyiv-Mohyla Academy.

    “Moscow wants to show that it is fighting ‘nationalism,’ it’s about propaganda to discredit Ukraine internally and partially to the foreign audience,” he added. [...]

    Read More
    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
    Give it up, troll! No matter how you slice it, comparisons with Russia never turn out good for "Ukrainian society".

    In this particular example, while Russia is harassing a library, Ukraine is banning Russian books - literally, all imports of books from Russia have been banned.

    , @Anatoly Karlin
    FTR, I unreservedly condemn these actions, if the situation there transpired approximately as described.

    When Ukraine goes low, as it usually does, Russia must go high.

    I have been a consistent proponent of freedom of speech and in any case so long as Communist literature remains legal - as it should - banning nationalist literature (considering that Russian and even Ukrainian nationalists killed orders of magnitude fewer people) is hypocritical.

    However, Russia at least is consistent in that it bans all Russian nationalists as well, for instance, the works of Konstantin Rodzaevsky, the leader of the Russian Fascist Party (who killed about zero people).

    Of course Ukraine and Ukraine fans are in no position to lecture Russia on any of this because their own bans are far more wide-ranging than Russia's, extending to crimininalizing Communist symbols and expressing sympathy for Communism.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  3. @Mr. Hack

    In fact, in Ukraine, so long as you belong to the appropriate faction, you can even shoot taxi drivers with pneumatic pistols for refusing to chant “Glory to Ukraine” along with you and get off with just house arrest.
     
    Anatoly, it looks like you'll stoop to any low level to try to denigrate Ukrainian society. At least the Ukrainian nut job that you mention was arrested and sits and awaits trial. How about the various Russian nut jobs, higher up the food chain, that are responsible for closing the only Ukrainian language library in Moscow, that's been operating for decades? Most likely, the ghost of Bandera was the motivating force behind this truly 'BARBARIC' act:

    Haran: Closure of the Ukrainian library in Moscow and persecution of its chief librarian is “symbolic”

    PONARS Eurasia 12 Jun 2017
    (Ukrainian Weekly) Russia’s timeworn orchestrated efforts to denigrate Ukrainian identity and culture were on full display this week when a judge convicted the head of the country’s only state-run Ukrainian literature library located in Moscow for “extremism.”

    A municipal court on June 5 in the capital gave Natalia Sharina, a native Muscovite and ethnic Russian, a four-year suspended sentence for “inciting national enmity or hatred.”

    Ostensibly, it was because a banned book authored by a Ukrainian nationalist was found at the library. Ms. Sharina insists the book was planted at the library, which was established in 1989 during the twilight of the Soviet Union. [...]

    Closure of the Ukrainian library and subsequent persecution of its chief librarian is “symbolic,” said Olexiy Haran, a political scientist and professor at the National University of Kyiv-Mohyla Academy.

    “Moscow wants to show that it is fighting ‘nationalism,’ it’s about propaganda to discredit Ukraine internally and partially to the foreign audience,” he added. [...]

     

    Give it up, troll! No matter how you slice it, comparisons with Russia never turn out good for “Ukrainian society”.

    In this particular example, while Russia is harassing a library, Ukraine is banning Russian books – literally, all imports of books from Russia have been banned.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    Don't resort to hyperbole Keverich. The ban of Russian books and periodicals is restricted to those that express an anti-Ukrainian content. Unless, of course I'm being generous in my assessment of Russian literature, and can imagine that there may exist some Russian language books being bereft of any anti-Ukrainian content? :-)
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  4. @Mr. Hack

    In fact, in Ukraine, so long as you belong to the appropriate faction, you can even shoot taxi drivers with pneumatic pistols for refusing to chant “Glory to Ukraine” along with you and get off with just house arrest.
     
    Anatoly, it looks like you'll stoop to any low level to try to denigrate Ukrainian society. At least the Ukrainian nut job that you mention was arrested and sits and awaits trial. How about the various Russian nut jobs, higher up the food chain, that are responsible for closing the only Ukrainian language library in Moscow, that's been operating for decades? Most likely, the ghost of Bandera was the motivating force behind this truly 'BARBARIC' act:

    Haran: Closure of the Ukrainian library in Moscow and persecution of its chief librarian is “symbolic”

    PONARS Eurasia 12 Jun 2017
    (Ukrainian Weekly) Russia’s timeworn orchestrated efforts to denigrate Ukrainian identity and culture were on full display this week when a judge convicted the head of the country’s only state-run Ukrainian literature library located in Moscow for “extremism.”

    A municipal court on June 5 in the capital gave Natalia Sharina, a native Muscovite and ethnic Russian, a four-year suspended sentence for “inciting national enmity or hatred.”

    Ostensibly, it was because a banned book authored by a Ukrainian nationalist was found at the library. Ms. Sharina insists the book was planted at the library, which was established in 1989 during the twilight of the Soviet Union. [...]

    Closure of the Ukrainian library and subsequent persecution of its chief librarian is “symbolic,” said Olexiy Haran, a political scientist and professor at the National University of Kyiv-Mohyla Academy.

    “Moscow wants to show that it is fighting ‘nationalism,’ it’s about propaganda to discredit Ukraine internally and partially to the foreign audience,” he added. [...]

     

    FTR, I unreservedly condemn these actions, if the situation there transpired approximately as described.

    When Ukraine goes low, as it usually does, Russia must go high.

    I have been a consistent proponent of freedom of speech and in any case so long as Communist literature remains legal – as it should – banning nationalist literature (considering that Russian and even Ukrainian nationalists killed orders of magnitude fewer people) is hypocritical.

    However, Russia at least is consistent in that it bans all Russian nationalists as well, for instance, the works of Konstantin Rodzaevsky, the leader of the Russian Fascist Party (who killed about zero people).

    Of course Ukraine and Ukraine fans are in no position to lecture Russia on any of this because their own bans are far more wide-ranging than Russia’s, extending to crimininalizing Communist symbols and expressing sympathy for Communism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Of course Ukraine and Ukraine fans are in no position to lecture Russia on any of this because their own bans are far more wide-ranging than Russia’s, extending to crimininalizing Communist symbols and expressing sympathy for Communism.
     
    Apparently, the criminality attributed in Ukraine to the Communist party resulting in the deaths of millions of Ukrainians, has resulted in the severe expression of denouement afforded Communist symbolism in Ukraine. Hundreds of commemorative plaques and monuments of Lenin have been unceremoniously toppled and destroyed within Ukraine, without a whimper or a tear. This is the free expression of the Ukrainian people, and highlights one of many differences between it and its neighbor to the North.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  5. Mr. Hack says:
    @Felix Keverich
    Give it up, troll! No matter how you slice it, comparisons with Russia never turn out good for "Ukrainian society".

    In this particular example, while Russia is harassing a library, Ukraine is banning Russian books - literally, all imports of books from Russia have been banned.

    Don’t resort to hyperbole Keverich. The ban of Russian books and periodicals is restricted to those that express an anti-Ukrainian content. Unless, of course I’m being generous in my assessment of Russian literature, and can imagine that there may exist some Russian language books being bereft of any anti-Ukrainian content? :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N

    The ban of Russian books and periodicals is restricted to those that express an anti-Ukrainian content.
     
    Just the same the Russian authorities have not banned Taras Shevchenko, but a few anti-Russian Ukrainian books (though one may find enough anti-Russian statements by Shevchenko or by a great deal of classical Ukrainian writers). I haven't been following the details of the case of that librarian (why should I, indeed, I am not a Ukrainian nationalist), but I suppose she has been sentenced for allowing banned anti-Russian Ukrainian books which contain appeals to kill Moskals or claims that Moskals are not even humans or things like that. So she must know what she was doing and control better the content of her library, otherwise some consequences may follow. But, like Anatoly, I'm strongly against any restrictions of free speech and any sort of criminal persecution, even Hitlerite and ISIS propaganda should be allowed. Moreover, I strongly think that many Ukrainian books by authors like Pavlo Shtepa must be translated and printed by millions copies in Russia for Russians must know and clearly understand what they are facing in Ukraine. Also I think it is a pity that the Ukrainian TV stations are not broadcast in Russia, many Russians are over-positive towards Ukraine and they have little idea about what really Ukrainians think about them (though, Ukrainian guests on the popular talk shows on Russian TV are doing their best).
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  6. Mr. Hack says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    FTR, I unreservedly condemn these actions, if the situation there transpired approximately as described.

    When Ukraine goes low, as it usually does, Russia must go high.

    I have been a consistent proponent of freedom of speech and in any case so long as Communist literature remains legal - as it should - banning nationalist literature (considering that Russian and even Ukrainian nationalists killed orders of magnitude fewer people) is hypocritical.

    However, Russia at least is consistent in that it bans all Russian nationalists as well, for instance, the works of Konstantin Rodzaevsky, the leader of the Russian Fascist Party (who killed about zero people).

    Of course Ukraine and Ukraine fans are in no position to lecture Russia on any of this because their own bans are far more wide-ranging than Russia's, extending to crimininalizing Communist symbols and expressing sympathy for Communism.

    Of course Ukraine and Ukraine fans are in no position to lecture Russia on any of this because their own bans are far more wide-ranging than Russia’s, extending to crimininalizing Communist symbols and expressing sympathy for Communism.

    Apparently, the criminality attributed in Ukraine to the Communist party resulting in the deaths of millions of Ukrainians, has resulted in the severe expression of denouement afforded Communist symbolism in Ukraine. Hundreds of commemorative plaques and monuments of Lenin have been unceremoniously toppled and destroyed within Ukraine, without a whimper or a tear. This is the free expression of the Ukrainian people, and highlights one of many differences between it and its neighbor to the North.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    I do not recall any referendums on the toppling of Lenin statues and plaque removals. Useful to know that in your world "the free expression of the Ukrainian people" = the reality imposed on locals by roving bands of thugs and "activists."

    Admittedly this would been in line with the wishes of a majority in Lvov or Kiev, but that this was so in Ekaterinoslav is less certain, and in Kharkov or Odessa, most certainly not. Though I have to admit that I can't myself care too much - to rebuild the Russian Empire, after all, you first have to clear away the Soviet rubble. So nice of the svidomy to start work on that.

    Anyhow, statues, street names, etc. aren't all that relevant. The far bigger issue is that there are people imprisoned in Ukraine for posting Communist symbols on Facebook. Incidentally, thank you for explicitly acknowledging that your respect for free speech only extends so far as it comports with your own beliefs. I suspect you'd have been a model Bolshevik.

    This is the free expression of the Ukrainian people, and highlights one of many differences between it and its neighbor to the North.
     
    The RF too has a lot of retarded censorship and free speech prosecutions, but the difference is that they are much less hypocritical about it. It is the Ukraine, not the RF, after all, that has made a religion (cargo cult) of Euro-integration and "celebrating diversity."
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  7. @Mr. Hack

    Of course Ukraine and Ukraine fans are in no position to lecture Russia on any of this because their own bans are far more wide-ranging than Russia’s, extending to crimininalizing Communist symbols and expressing sympathy for Communism.
     
    Apparently, the criminality attributed in Ukraine to the Communist party resulting in the deaths of millions of Ukrainians, has resulted in the severe expression of denouement afforded Communist symbolism in Ukraine. Hundreds of commemorative plaques and monuments of Lenin have been unceremoniously toppled and destroyed within Ukraine, without a whimper or a tear. This is the free expression of the Ukrainian people, and highlights one of many differences between it and its neighbor to the North.

    I do not recall any referendums on the toppling of Lenin statues and plaque removals. Useful to know that in your world “the free expression of the Ukrainian people” = the reality imposed on locals by roving bands of thugs and “activists.”

    Admittedly this would been in line with the wishes of a majority in Lvov or Kiev, but that this was so in Ekaterinoslav is less certain, and in Kharkov or Odessa, most certainly not. Though I have to admit that I can’t myself care too much – to rebuild the Russian Empire, after all, you first have to clear away the Soviet rubble. So nice of the svidomy to start work on that.

    Anyhow, statues, street names, etc. aren’t all that relevant. The far bigger issue is that there are people imprisoned in Ukraine for posting Communist symbols on Facebook. Incidentally, thank you for explicitly acknowledging that your respect for free speech only extends so far as it comports with your own beliefs. I suspect you’d have been a model Bolshevik.

    This is the free expression of the Ukrainian people, and highlights one of many differences between it and its neighbor to the North.

    The RF too has a lot of retarded censorship and free speech prosecutions, but the difference is that they are much less hypocritical about it. It is the Ukraine, not the RF, after all, that has made a religion (cargo cult) of Euro-integration and “celebrating diversity.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    You're not as knowledgeable about Ukrainian affairs as you let on. In 2015, the Ukrainian legislature put into play decommunization laws that paved the way for the removal of any communist inspired public monuments and street names, city names etc; These laws were signed and approved by Ukraine's current legally elected president. These laws, were undoubtedly inspired by similar laws promulgated in Germany to deal with its unsavory Nazi past. All was done above board and should fit with the approval of a staunch anti-communist such as yourself?:

    In April 2015 a formal decommunization process started in Ukraine after laws were approved which, among other acts, outlawed communist symbols.[1]

    On 15 May 2015 President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko signed a set of laws that started a six-month period for the removal of communist monuments (excluding World War II monuments) and renaming of public places named after communist-related themes.[2][3] At the time this meant that 22 cities and 44 villages were set to get a new name.[4] Until 21 November 2015 municipal governments had the authority to implement this;[5] if they failed to do so, the provincial authorities had until 21 May 2016 to change the names.[5] If after that date the settlement had retained its old name the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine will wield authority to assign a new name to the settlement.[5] In 2016 51,493 streets and 987 cities and villages were renamed and 1,320 Lenin monuments and 1,069 monuments to other communist figures removed.[6]
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decommunization_in_Ukraine

    Perhaps, it's high time that Russia take from Ukraine a good example and follow suit?

    , @David
    Let's talk about something really interesting, a favor you can do me.

    On the website below this paragraph a video was posted within the last two years of Ramzan Kadyrov trail running with the Russian minister of defense, or someone like that. At one point, Mr Kadyrov submerges himself in a mountain stream fully clothed in a tracksuit. I really regret not capturing a link because I can't find it now, not being able to search the site in Russian. If you, Mr Karlin, were to locate the video and share the link with us, I would be grateful and you would be rewarded with possibly the career highlight of The Head of the Chechen Republic. Glad the cat has a nice home, btw.

    http://www.kp.ru/
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  8. AP says:

    The far bigger issue is that there are people imprisoned in Ukraine for posting Communist symbols on Facebook.

    It was a suspended sentence, no jail time:

    https://www.unian.info/society/1921374-young-ukrainian-sentenced-for-propaganda-of-communism-on-facebook-human-rights-group.html

    A stupid thing of the government to do.

    Does Germany incarcerate people for posting swastikas and/or promoting Nazism on facebook?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  9. Mr. Hack says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    I do not recall any referendums on the toppling of Lenin statues and plaque removals. Useful to know that in your world "the free expression of the Ukrainian people" = the reality imposed on locals by roving bands of thugs and "activists."

    Admittedly this would been in line with the wishes of a majority in Lvov or Kiev, but that this was so in Ekaterinoslav is less certain, and in Kharkov or Odessa, most certainly not. Though I have to admit that I can't myself care too much - to rebuild the Russian Empire, after all, you first have to clear away the Soviet rubble. So nice of the svidomy to start work on that.

    Anyhow, statues, street names, etc. aren't all that relevant. The far bigger issue is that there are people imprisoned in Ukraine for posting Communist symbols on Facebook. Incidentally, thank you for explicitly acknowledging that your respect for free speech only extends so far as it comports with your own beliefs. I suspect you'd have been a model Bolshevik.

    This is the free expression of the Ukrainian people, and highlights one of many differences between it and its neighbor to the North.
     
    The RF too has a lot of retarded censorship and free speech prosecutions, but the difference is that they are much less hypocritical about it. It is the Ukraine, not the RF, after all, that has made a religion (cargo cult) of Euro-integration and "celebrating diversity."

    You’re not as knowledgeable about Ukrainian affairs as you let on. In 2015, the Ukrainian legislature put into play decommunization laws that paved the way for the removal of any communist inspired public monuments and street names, city names etc; These laws were signed and approved by Ukraine’s current legally elected president. These laws, were undoubtedly inspired by similar laws promulgated in Germany to deal with its unsavory Nazi past. All was done above board and should fit with the approval of a staunch anti-communist such as yourself?:

    In April 2015 a formal decommunization process started in Ukraine after laws were approved which, among other acts, outlawed communist symbols.[1]

    On 15 May 2015 President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko signed a set of laws that started a six-month period for the removal of communist monuments (excluding World War II monuments) and renaming of public places named after communist-related themes.[2][3] At the time this meant that 22 cities and 44 villages were set to get a new name.[4] Until 21 November 2015 municipal governments had the authority to implement this;[5] if they failed to do so, the provincial authorities had until 21 May 2016 to change the names.[5] If after that date the settlement had retained its old name the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine will wield authority to assign a new name to the settlement.[5] In 2016 51,493 streets and 987 cities and villages were renamed and 1,320 Lenin monuments and 1,069 monuments to other communist figures removed.[6]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decommunization_in_Ukraine

    Perhaps, it’s high time that Russia take from Ukraine a good example and follow suit?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Zenarchy
    Are you saying that you don't know Ukranians would not even exist anymore without communists?
    Generalplan Ost?
    Do you think Nazis looked upon Ukranians more favorably than other Eastern Slavs?
    Or do you think a democratic independent Ukraine would win against Nazis?
    Or are you one of those idiots who think Nazis would not have attacked a democratic Ukraine, even though it contained about 40 percent of European Jews (or sth like that)?

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses. At least with us, Slovenians, and Czechs 50 percent was planned to be Germanized (although Italian fascists were proposing 100 percent extermination). Less generosity towards other Slavs, bro.
    , @Boris N

    Perhaps, it’s high time that Russia take from Ukraine a good example and follow suit?
     
    Right, and first things first Russia must finish off the UkrSSR and BelSSR, two bastard Frankenstein golems of the Soviet regime.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  10. Anon 2 says:

    OT but still informative: Latest stats on the short-term
    (but renewable) employment of foreign nationals in Poland.
    Over the last 12 months short-term visas were issued to

    1.5 million Ukrainians
    40,000 Belarusians
    5,000 Russians

    What’s striking on a month-by-month basis is
    the growing employment of Belarusians and Russians.
    It appears that the Russians only now are beginning
    to find out about attractive job opportunities in Poland,
    perhaps by word of mouth, and are coming to Poland
    in greater numbers. The labor shortage in Poland is
    so severe that this is likely to continue. For example,
    Ukrainian women are increasingly employed in retail,
    and not just in housekeeping and caregiving. Ukrainian
    men are advancing into careers in IT, and not just construction
    and farming. Due to U.S. shale, oil prices are likely to stay
    low, at $45-55 per barrel. Hence a radical improvement
    in the economic situation in Belarus and Russia seems unlikely
    in the coming months

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N

    What’s striking on a month-by-month basis is
    the growing employment of Belarusians and Russians.
     
    Can't say about Belarusians, but for Russians your numbers do not show that. Especially consider to convert your numbers into the percentage. 5000 is 0.007% of the labour force of Russia (approx. 76m). On the other hand Belarusian and Ukrainian gastarbeiters in Poland are 1% and 7% of their labour force respectively.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. Zenarchy says:
    @Mr. Hack
    You're not as knowledgeable about Ukrainian affairs as you let on. In 2015, the Ukrainian legislature put into play decommunization laws that paved the way for the removal of any communist inspired public monuments and street names, city names etc; These laws were signed and approved by Ukraine's current legally elected president. These laws, were undoubtedly inspired by similar laws promulgated in Germany to deal with its unsavory Nazi past. All was done above board and should fit with the approval of a staunch anti-communist such as yourself?:

    In April 2015 a formal decommunization process started in Ukraine after laws were approved which, among other acts, outlawed communist symbols.[1]

    On 15 May 2015 President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko signed a set of laws that started a six-month period for the removal of communist monuments (excluding World War II monuments) and renaming of public places named after communist-related themes.[2][3] At the time this meant that 22 cities and 44 villages were set to get a new name.[4] Until 21 November 2015 municipal governments had the authority to implement this;[5] if they failed to do so, the provincial authorities had until 21 May 2016 to change the names.[5] If after that date the settlement had retained its old name the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine will wield authority to assign a new name to the settlement.[5] In 2016 51,493 streets and 987 cities and villages were renamed and 1,320 Lenin monuments and 1,069 monuments to other communist figures removed.[6]
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decommunization_in_Ukraine

    Perhaps, it's high time that Russia take from Ukraine a good example and follow suit?

    Are you saying that you don’t know Ukranians would not even exist anymore without communists?
    Generalplan Ost?
    Do you think Nazis looked upon Ukranians more favorably than other Eastern Slavs?
    Or do you think a democratic independent Ukraine would win against Nazis?
    Or are you one of those idiots who think Nazis would not have attacked a democratic Ukraine, even though it contained about 40 percent of European Jews (or sth like that)?

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses. At least with us, Slovenians, and Czechs 50 percent was planned to be Germanized (although Italian fascists were proposing 100 percent extermination). Less generosity towards other Slavs, bro.

    Read More
    • Replies: @neutral
    And now Ukranians have embraced Generalplan Sud where the population will be ultimately be replaced by sub Saharan Africa, Asian and Mena third worlders.
    , @Mr. Hack

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses
     
    What Ukrainians Stalin couldn't starve by carting away their grain and other foodstuffs, he'd round up and send off to his mills of death in the gulags. The only thing that I can see that is 'failed' is your empty and stupid rhetoric. You Commie creeps have been crying 'failed state' now for over 26 years, and Ukraine is still chugging along.
    , @AP

    Are you saying that you don’t know Ukranians would not even exist anymore without communists?
     
    Without Communists it's doubtful that Nazis would have come to power in the first place.

    Generalplan Ost?
    Do you think Nazis looked upon Ukranians more favorably than other Eastern Slavs?
     
    Depends on the Ukrainians. Galicians were classified differently and treated much better. The rest of the Ukrainians were treated a little better than were other Eastern Slavs, though they too would have been subject to genocide.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20111125231946/http://www.atsweb.neu.edu/holocaust/Hitlers_Plans.htm

    "Under Generalplan Ost, all Slavs unfit for Germanization were to be expelled from the areas marked out for German settlement. In considering the fate of the individual nations, the architects of the Plan decided that it would be possible to Germanize about 50 per cent of the Czechs, 35 per cent of the Ukrainians and 25 per cent of the Byelorussians. The remainder would have to be deported to western Siberia. "


    Or do you think a democratic independent Ukraine would win against Nazis?
     
    Without Bolsheviks in power:

    1. There most likely would have been no Nazi Germany. Nazis barely came to power and fear of Bolshevism was one of the necessary factors for that.
    2. Russia would have been stronger.


    Or are you one of those idiots who think Nazis would not have attacked a democratic Ukraine, even though it contained about 40 percent of European Jews (or sth like that)
     
    Or a "Democratic Ukraine" could have behaved like Hungary,Romania, Croatia, Bulgaria or most of the other countries who allied with Germany and as a result were treated not too badly.

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses.
     
    The analogy would be if someone were rescued from the clutches of a sadistic killer and chained in a crate and abused, but allowed to live, by the rescuer. I'm not sure if gratitude is the appropriate response. Even if, one would not exist otherwise.
    , @Hippopotamusdrome


    Generalplan Ost?

     

    Never forget. Nazis planned to kill 666 million Slavs.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  12. neutral says:
    @Zenarchy
    Are you saying that you don't know Ukranians would not even exist anymore without communists?
    Generalplan Ost?
    Do you think Nazis looked upon Ukranians more favorably than other Eastern Slavs?
    Or do you think a democratic independent Ukraine would win against Nazis?
    Or are you one of those idiots who think Nazis would not have attacked a democratic Ukraine, even though it contained about 40 percent of European Jews (or sth like that)?

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses. At least with us, Slovenians, and Czechs 50 percent was planned to be Germanized (although Italian fascists were proposing 100 percent extermination). Less generosity towards other Slavs, bro.

    And now Ukranians have embraced Generalplan Sud where the population will be ultimately be replaced by sub Saharan Africa, Asian and Mena third worlders.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  13. Mr. Hack says:
    @Zenarchy
    Are you saying that you don't know Ukranians would not even exist anymore without communists?
    Generalplan Ost?
    Do you think Nazis looked upon Ukranians more favorably than other Eastern Slavs?
    Or do you think a democratic independent Ukraine would win against Nazis?
    Or are you one of those idiots who think Nazis would not have attacked a democratic Ukraine, even though it contained about 40 percent of European Jews (or sth like that)?

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses. At least with us, Slovenians, and Czechs 50 percent was planned to be Germanized (although Italian fascists were proposing 100 percent extermination). Less generosity towards other Slavs, bro.

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses

    What Ukrainians Stalin couldn’t starve by carting away their grain and other foodstuffs, he’d round up and send off to his mills of death in the gulags. The only thing that I can see that is ‘failed’ is your empty and stupid rhetoric. You Commie creeps have been crying ‘failed state’ now for over 26 years, and Ukraine is still chugging along.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Zenarchy
    The 'failed system' obviously referred to communist socialism, which invalidates some of what you said.

    So how many Ukranians did Stalin and his goons kill? 10 percent? 15 percent? And even though the alternative was 75 percent +, you still think communism wasn't beneficial to Ukranians?

    Look, I'll give you an example: I dislike many things about traditional Christianity and feel a stronger kinship with earlier Slavic outlook. But since I'm not ignorant, I also know that without Christianity we would now certainly be Muslim. So personal dislike aside, I had to admit it proved a better outcome.
    , @Boris N

    What Ukrainians Stalin couldn’t starve by carting away their grain and other foodstuffs
     
    Always wanted to ask the Holodomor proselytizers: what did Stalin do with all that stolen grain and foodstuff? Did he gorge that all by himself?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  14. Zenarchy says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses
     
    What Ukrainians Stalin couldn't starve by carting away their grain and other foodstuffs, he'd round up and send off to his mills of death in the gulags. The only thing that I can see that is 'failed' is your empty and stupid rhetoric. You Commie creeps have been crying 'failed state' now for over 26 years, and Ukraine is still chugging along.

    The ‘failed system’ obviously referred to communist socialism, which invalidates some of what you said.

    So how many Ukranians did Stalin and his goons kill? 10 percent? 15 percent? And even though the alternative was 75 percent +, you still think communism wasn’t beneficial to Ukranians?

    Look, I’ll give you an example: I dislike many things about traditional Christianity and feel a stronger kinship with earlier Slavic outlook. But since I’m not ignorant, I also know that without Christianity we would now certainly be Muslim. So personal dislike aside, I had to admit it proved a better outcome.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP

    So how many Ukranians did Stalin and his goons kill? 10 percent? 15 percent? And even though the alternative was 75 percent +, you still think communism wasn’t beneficial to Ukranians?
     
    I'm repeating what I posted elsewhere, but:

    1. If no Bolshevism, Nazis would not have come to power. Fear of Bolshevism was a necessary factor for the Nazis to achieve power in Germany (they barely did so, this was one of the critical factors). Nazis adopted some Bolshevik practices. For example, when they conquered Ukraine they kept Stalin's collective farms in place because they saw them as useful tools of exploitation. They starved 1-2 million Ukrainians to death this way. It wasn't quite as bad as 1932-1933 (about 3 million starved) but it was still horrific.
    2. An accurate analogy. Someone is rescued from a sadistic killer. The "rescuer" chains the person he rescued in a box, injures, enslaves and abuses her for several years (this is in reference to the post-war Stalin years, not the later milder Soviet period). Should she be grateful to this rescuer, because she is alive?
    , @Boris N

    But since I’m not ignorant, I also know that without Christianity we would now certainly be Muslim.
     
    I understand why it is bad to be non-Muslim under the Muslim rule, but why is it bad to be Muslim themselves?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  15. AP says:
    @Zenarchy
    Are you saying that you don't know Ukranians would not even exist anymore without communists?
    Generalplan Ost?
    Do you think Nazis looked upon Ukranians more favorably than other Eastern Slavs?
    Or do you think a democratic independent Ukraine would win against Nazis?
    Or are you one of those idiots who think Nazis would not have attacked a democratic Ukraine, even though it contained about 40 percent of European Jews (or sth like that)?

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses. At least with us, Slovenians, and Czechs 50 percent was planned to be Germanized (although Italian fascists were proposing 100 percent extermination). Less generosity towards other Slavs, bro.

    Are you saying that you don’t know Ukranians would not even exist anymore without communists?

    Without Communists it’s doubtful that Nazis would have come to power in the first place.

    Generalplan Ost?
    Do you think Nazis looked upon Ukranians more favorably than other Eastern Slavs?

    Depends on the Ukrainians. Galicians were classified differently and treated much better. The rest of the Ukrainians were treated a little better than were other Eastern Slavs, though they too would have been subject to genocide.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20111125231946/http://www.atsweb.neu.edu/holocaust/Hitlers_Plans.htm

    “Under Generalplan Ost, all Slavs unfit for Germanization were to be expelled from the areas marked out for German settlement. In considering the fate of the individual nations, the architects of the Plan decided that it would be possible to Germanize about 50 per cent of the Czechs, 35 per cent of the Ukrainians and 25 per cent of the Byelorussians. The remainder would have to be deported to western Siberia. ”

    Or do you think a democratic independent Ukraine would win against Nazis?

    Without Bolsheviks in power:

    1. There most likely would have been no Nazi Germany. Nazis barely came to power and fear of Bolshevism was one of the necessary factors for that.
    2. Russia would have been stronger.

    Or are you one of those idiots who think Nazis would not have attacked a democratic Ukraine, even though it contained about 40 percent of European Jews (or sth like that)

    Or a “Democratic Ukraine” could have behaved like Hungary,Romania, Croatia, Bulgaria or most of the other countries who allied with Germany and as a result were treated not too badly.

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses.

    The analogy would be if someone were rescued from the clutches of a sadistic killer and chained in a crate and abused, but allowed to live, by the rescuer. I’m not sure if gratitude is the appropriate response. Even if, one would not exist otherwise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N

    Without Bolsheviks in power:

    1. No Nazi Germany.
    2. Russia would have been stronger.
     
    You forgot number 3: no Ukraine.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  16. AP says:
    @Zenarchy
    The 'failed system' obviously referred to communist socialism, which invalidates some of what you said.

    So how many Ukranians did Stalin and his goons kill? 10 percent? 15 percent? And even though the alternative was 75 percent +, you still think communism wasn't beneficial to Ukranians?

    Look, I'll give you an example: I dislike many things about traditional Christianity and feel a stronger kinship with earlier Slavic outlook. But since I'm not ignorant, I also know that without Christianity we would now certainly be Muslim. So personal dislike aside, I had to admit it proved a better outcome.

    So how many Ukranians did Stalin and his goons kill? 10 percent? 15 percent? And even though the alternative was 75 percent +, you still think communism wasn’t beneficial to Ukranians?

    I’m repeating what I posted elsewhere, but:

    1. If no Bolshevism, Nazis would not have come to power. Fear of Bolshevism was a necessary factor for the Nazis to achieve power in Germany (they barely did so, this was one of the critical factors). Nazis adopted some Bolshevik practices. For example, when they conquered Ukraine they kept Stalin’s collective farms in place because they saw them as useful tools of exploitation. They starved 1-2 million Ukrainians to death this way. It wasn’t quite as bad as 1932-1933 (about 3 million starved) but it was still horrific.
    2. An accurate analogy. Someone is rescued from a sadistic killer. The “rescuer” chains the person he rescued in a box, injures, enslaves and abuses her for several years (this is in reference to the post-war Stalin years, not the later milder Soviet period). Should she be grateful to this rescuer, because she is alive?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. Mr. Hack says:

    The RF too has a lot of retarded censorship and free speech prosecutions, but the difference is that they are much less hypocritical about it.

    ‘Retarded censorship’ or truly a ‘bastion of russophobia’ in the heart of Moscow? Are Putin’s anti-extremist agents shielding the public from dangerous ideas (Orwellian doublespeak), or perhaps the misguided actions of mind control cops? Ms. Sharina states:

    “I am absolutely not guilty of anything,” Mrs. Sharina said. “Nobody gave a library director the right, moreover the responsibility, to censor legally published books.”

    One wonders who among Moscow’s citizenry was unduly influenced by reading Ukrainian nationalist propaganda?…Could there already be more, infected by this insidious play by dangerous Ukrainian fifth columnists?…you be the judge:

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  18. David says:
    @Anatoly Karlin
    I do not recall any referendums on the toppling of Lenin statues and plaque removals. Useful to know that in your world "the free expression of the Ukrainian people" = the reality imposed on locals by roving bands of thugs and "activists."

    Admittedly this would been in line with the wishes of a majority in Lvov or Kiev, but that this was so in Ekaterinoslav is less certain, and in Kharkov or Odessa, most certainly not. Though I have to admit that I can't myself care too much - to rebuild the Russian Empire, after all, you first have to clear away the Soviet rubble. So nice of the svidomy to start work on that.

    Anyhow, statues, street names, etc. aren't all that relevant. The far bigger issue is that there are people imprisoned in Ukraine for posting Communist symbols on Facebook. Incidentally, thank you for explicitly acknowledging that your respect for free speech only extends so far as it comports with your own beliefs. I suspect you'd have been a model Bolshevik.

    This is the free expression of the Ukrainian people, and highlights one of many differences between it and its neighbor to the North.
     
    The RF too has a lot of retarded censorship and free speech prosecutions, but the difference is that they are much less hypocritical about it. It is the Ukraine, not the RF, after all, that has made a religion (cargo cult) of Euro-integration and "celebrating diversity."

    Let’s talk about something really interesting, a favor you can do me.

    On the website below this paragraph a video was posted within the last two years of Ramzan Kadyrov trail running with the Russian minister of defense, or someone like that. At one point, Mr Kadyrov submerges himself in a mountain stream fully clothed in a tracksuit. I really regret not capturing a link because I can’t find it now, not being able to search the site in Russian. If you, Mr Karlin, were to locate the video and share the link with us, I would be grateful and you would be rewarded with possibly the career highlight of The Head of the Chechen Republic. Glad the cat has a nice home, btw.

    http://www.kp.ru/

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  19. @Zenarchy
    Are you saying that you don't know Ukranians would not even exist anymore without communists?
    Generalplan Ost?
    Do you think Nazis looked upon Ukranians more favorably than other Eastern Slavs?
    Or do you think a democratic independent Ukraine would win against Nazis?
    Or are you one of those idiots who think Nazis would not have attacked a democratic Ukraine, even though it contained about 40 percent of European Jews (or sth like that)?

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses. At least with us, Slovenians, and Czechs 50 percent was planned to be Germanized (although Italian fascists were proposing 100 percent extermination). Less generosity towards other Slavs, bro.

    Generalplan Ost?

    Never forget. Nazis planned to kill 666 million Slavs.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  20. Boris N says:

    Everybody in the West who demonizes Russia for dispersals of illegal demonstrations must talk with Yasha Levine. He has made a very colourful and somewhat repulsive testimony of his detention by the LA police (Google also “Yasha Levine jail”). The “Occupiers” were literally brutally crushed and then all fined for loitering or some other silly lame excuses like that. I may not understand the whole idea of going to demonstrations and I may detest “the guard dogs of the regime”, but what have the latter done terrible unlawful that has not being done all around the world? The West are hypocrites.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  21. Boris N says:

    And I was slightly disappointed when SiP started to act like WP/NYT/Guardian while covering the demonstration (see their post). Which again has made me think that either they (or rather he) are utterly stupid and naive, or have been always sell-outs outright from the start, otherwise it is difficult to explain why they constantly play shills of the Western propaganda.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter Display All Comments
  22. Boris N says:
    @Mr. Hack
    Don't resort to hyperbole Keverich. The ban of Russian books and periodicals is restricted to those that express an anti-Ukrainian content. Unless, of course I'm being generous in my assessment of Russian literature, and can imagine that there may exist some Russian language books being bereft of any anti-Ukrainian content? :-)

    The ban of Russian books and periodicals is restricted to those that express an anti-Ukrainian content.

    Just the same the Russian authorities have not banned Taras Shevchenko, but a few anti-Russian Ukrainian books (though one may find enough anti-Russian statements by Shevchenko or by a great deal of classical Ukrainian writers). I haven’t been following the details of the case of that librarian (why should I, indeed, I am not a Ukrainian nationalist), but I suppose she has been sentenced for allowing banned anti-Russian Ukrainian books which contain appeals to kill Moskals or claims that Moskals are not even humans or things like that. So she must know what she was doing and control better the content of her library, otherwise some consequences may follow. But, like Anatoly, I’m strongly against any restrictions of free speech and any sort of criminal persecution, even Hitlerite and ISIS propaganda should be allowed. Moreover, I strongly think that many Ukrainian books by authors like Pavlo Shtepa must be translated and printed by millions copies in Russia for Russians must know and clearly understand what they are facing in Ukraine. Also I think it is a pity that the Ukrainian TV stations are not broadcast in Russia, many Russians are over-positive towards Ukraine and they have little idea about what really Ukrainians think about them (though, Ukrainian guests on the popular talk shows on Russian TV are doing their best).

    Read More
    • LOL: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    many Russians are over-positive towards Ukraine and they have little idea about what really Ukrainians think about them
     
    Are the Russian people as naive as you paint them here? How wold the average Russian feel if their neighbor rode in unannounced and without an invitation and ripped off a large chunk of territory via a phoney staged referendum, at the point of a gun, with no international monitors, and then continue to foment a proxy war in two other regions for three years? You're blowing smoke where it's clear to see what's really going on!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  23. Boris N says:
    @Mr. Hack
    You're not as knowledgeable about Ukrainian affairs as you let on. In 2015, the Ukrainian legislature put into play decommunization laws that paved the way for the removal of any communist inspired public monuments and street names, city names etc; These laws were signed and approved by Ukraine's current legally elected president. These laws, were undoubtedly inspired by similar laws promulgated in Germany to deal with its unsavory Nazi past. All was done above board and should fit with the approval of a staunch anti-communist such as yourself?:

    In April 2015 a formal decommunization process started in Ukraine after laws were approved which, among other acts, outlawed communist symbols.[1]

    On 15 May 2015 President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko signed a set of laws that started a six-month period for the removal of communist monuments (excluding World War II monuments) and renaming of public places named after communist-related themes.[2][3] At the time this meant that 22 cities and 44 villages were set to get a new name.[4] Until 21 November 2015 municipal governments had the authority to implement this;[5] if they failed to do so, the provincial authorities had until 21 May 2016 to change the names.[5] If after that date the settlement had retained its old name the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine will wield authority to assign a new name to the settlement.[5] In 2016 51,493 streets and 987 cities and villages were renamed and 1,320 Lenin monuments and 1,069 monuments to other communist figures removed.[6]
     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decommunization_in_Ukraine

    Perhaps, it's high time that Russia take from Ukraine a good example and follow suit?

    Perhaps, it’s high time that Russia take from Ukraine a good example and follow suit?

    Right, and first things first Russia must finish off the UkrSSR and BelSSR, two bastard Frankenstein golems of the Soviet regime.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    I think that self immolation would be much more effective and worthwhile!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  24. Boris N says:
    @Anon 2
    OT but still informative: Latest stats on the short-term
    (but renewable) employment of foreign nationals in Poland.
    Over the last 12 months short-term visas were issued to

    1.5 million Ukrainians
    40,000 Belarusians
    5,000 Russians

    What's striking on a month-by-month basis is
    the growing employment of Belarusians and Russians.
    It appears that the Russians only now are beginning
    to find out about attractive job opportunities in Poland,
    perhaps by word of mouth, and are coming to Poland
    in greater numbers. The labor shortage in Poland is
    so severe that this is likely to continue. For example,
    Ukrainian women are increasingly employed in retail,
    and not just in housekeeping and caregiving. Ukrainian
    men are advancing into careers in IT, and not just construction
    and farming. Due to U.S. shale, oil prices are likely to stay
    low, at $45-55 per barrel. Hence a radical improvement
    in the economic situation in Belarus and Russia seems unlikely
    in the coming months

    What’s striking on a month-by-month basis is
    the growing employment of Belarusians and Russians.

    Can’t say about Belarusians, but for Russians your numbers do not show that. Especially consider to convert your numbers into the percentage. 5000 is 0.007% of the labour force of Russia (approx. 76m). On the other hand Belarusian and Ukrainian gastarbeiters in Poland are 1% and 7% of their labour force respectively.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon 2
    I was actually surprised that the number of the Russian
    gastarbeiters in Poland was nonzero, unless they mostly
    come from the Kaliningrad Oblast'. Otherwise, even Smolensk
    is quite a distance away. There are 10,000 Russians living
    permanently in Poland. Some are escapees from Putin's
    Russia, and you can find them sometimes demonstrating in front of
    the Russian embassy in Warsaw. But that would be a separate
    category. Many Poles, of course, have some Russian ancestry,
    as shown by the -ow, -ew, and -in endings in their surnames, and
    many Russians have Polish ancestry, e.g., Tsiolkovsky (Ciołkowski).

    I'm not surprised about the Belarusians since the family connections
    between Poland and Belarus are still fairly strong, and of course they
    live right over the border.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  25. Boris N says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses
     
    What Ukrainians Stalin couldn't starve by carting away their grain and other foodstuffs, he'd round up and send off to his mills of death in the gulags. The only thing that I can see that is 'failed' is your empty and stupid rhetoric. You Commie creeps have been crying 'failed state' now for over 26 years, and Ukraine is still chugging along.

    What Ukrainians Stalin couldn’t starve by carting away their grain and other foodstuffs

    Always wanted to ask the Holodomor proselytizers: what did Stalin do with all that stolen grain and foodstuff? Did he gorge that all by himself?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    ome publications claim that after recognition of the famine situation in Ukraine during the drought and poor harvests, the Soviet government in Moscow continued to export grain rather than retain its crop to feed the people,[43] though at a significantly lower rate than in previous years. In 1930–31, there had been 5,832,000 metric tons of grains exported. In 1931–32, grain exports declined to 4,786,000 metric tons. In 1932–33, grain exports were just 1,607,000 metric tons, and in 1933–34, this further declined to 1,441,000 metric tons.[44] Officially published data [45] differed slightly:
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  26. Boris N says:
    @Zenarchy
    The 'failed system' obviously referred to communist socialism, which invalidates some of what you said.

    So how many Ukranians did Stalin and his goons kill? 10 percent? 15 percent? And even though the alternative was 75 percent +, you still think communism wasn't beneficial to Ukranians?

    Look, I'll give you an example: I dislike many things about traditional Christianity and feel a stronger kinship with earlier Slavic outlook. But since I'm not ignorant, I also know that without Christianity we would now certainly be Muslim. So personal dislike aside, I had to admit it proved a better outcome.

    But since I’m not ignorant, I also know that without Christianity we would now certainly be Muslim.

    I understand why it is bad to be non-Muslim under the Muslim rule, but why is it bad to be Muslim themselves?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  27. Boris N says:
    @AP

    Are you saying that you don’t know Ukranians would not even exist anymore without communists?
     
    Without Communists it's doubtful that Nazis would have come to power in the first place.

    Generalplan Ost?
    Do you think Nazis looked upon Ukranians more favorably than other Eastern Slavs?
     
    Depends on the Ukrainians. Galicians were classified differently and treated much better. The rest of the Ukrainians were treated a little better than were other Eastern Slavs, though they too would have been subject to genocide.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20111125231946/http://www.atsweb.neu.edu/holocaust/Hitlers_Plans.htm

    "Under Generalplan Ost, all Slavs unfit for Germanization were to be expelled from the areas marked out for German settlement. In considering the fate of the individual nations, the architects of the Plan decided that it would be possible to Germanize about 50 per cent of the Czechs, 35 per cent of the Ukrainians and 25 per cent of the Byelorussians. The remainder would have to be deported to western Siberia. "


    Or do you think a democratic independent Ukraine would win against Nazis?
     
    Without Bolsheviks in power:

    1. There most likely would have been no Nazi Germany. Nazis barely came to power and fear of Bolshevism was one of the necessary factors for that.
    2. Russia would have been stronger.


    Or are you one of those idiots who think Nazis would not have attacked a democratic Ukraine, even though it contained about 40 percent of European Jews (or sth like that)
     
    Or a "Democratic Ukraine" could have behaved like Hungary,Romania, Croatia, Bulgaria or most of the other countries who allied with Germany and as a result were treated not too badly.

    Face it, a failed system or not, Stalin saved your ungrateful asses.
     
    The analogy would be if someone were rescued from the clutches of a sadistic killer and chained in a crate and abused, but allowed to live, by the rescuer. I'm not sure if gratitude is the appropriate response. Even if, one would not exist otherwise.

    Without Bolsheviks in power:

    1. No Nazi Germany.
    2. Russia would have been stronger.

    You forgot number 3: no Ukraine.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  28. Anon 2 says:
    @Boris N

    What’s striking on a month-by-month basis is
    the growing employment of Belarusians and Russians.
     
    Can't say about Belarusians, but for Russians your numbers do not show that. Especially consider to convert your numbers into the percentage. 5000 is 0.007% of the labour force of Russia (approx. 76m). On the other hand Belarusian and Ukrainian gastarbeiters in Poland are 1% and 7% of their labour force respectively.

    I was actually surprised that the number of the Russian
    gastarbeiters in Poland was nonzero, unless they mostly
    come from the Kaliningrad Oblast’. Otherwise, even Smolensk
    is quite a distance away. There are 10,000 Russians living
    permanently in Poland. Some are escapees from Putin’s
    Russia, and you can find them sometimes demonstrating in front of
    the Russian embassy in Warsaw. But that would be a separate
    category. Many Poles, of course, have some Russian ancestry,
    as shown by the -ow, -ew, and -in endings in their surnames, and
    many Russians have Polish ancestry, e.g., Tsiolkovsky (Ciołkowski).

    I’m not surprised about the Belarusians since the family connections
    between Poland and Belarus are still fairly strong, and of course they
    live right over the border.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  29. Mr. Hack says:
    @Boris N

    What Ukrainians Stalin couldn’t starve by carting away their grain and other foodstuffs
     
    Always wanted to ask the Holodomor proselytizers: what did Stalin do with all that stolen grain and foodstuff? Did he gorge that all by himself?

    ome publications claim that after recognition of the famine situation in Ukraine during the drought and poor harvests, the Soviet government in Moscow continued to export grain rather than retain its crop to feed the people,[43] though at a significantly lower rate than in previous years. In 1930–31, there had been 5,832,000 metric tons of grains exported. In 1931–32, grain exports declined to 4,786,000 metric tons. In 1932–33, grain exports were just 1,607,000 metric tons, and in 1933–34, this further declined to 1,441,000 metric tons.[44] Officially published data [45] differed slightly:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N
    And what happened next? Two questions still remain: 1) who, then, ate all your Ukrainian lard grain? whom to blame? 2) what did Stalin spend the export money for?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  30. Mr. Hack says:
    @Boris N

    The ban of Russian books and periodicals is restricted to those that express an anti-Ukrainian content.
     
    Just the same the Russian authorities have not banned Taras Shevchenko, but a few anti-Russian Ukrainian books (though one may find enough anti-Russian statements by Shevchenko or by a great deal of classical Ukrainian writers). I haven't been following the details of the case of that librarian (why should I, indeed, I am not a Ukrainian nationalist), but I suppose she has been sentenced for allowing banned anti-Russian Ukrainian books which contain appeals to kill Moskals or claims that Moskals are not even humans or things like that. So she must know what she was doing and control better the content of her library, otherwise some consequences may follow. But, like Anatoly, I'm strongly against any restrictions of free speech and any sort of criminal persecution, even Hitlerite and ISIS propaganda should be allowed. Moreover, I strongly think that many Ukrainian books by authors like Pavlo Shtepa must be translated and printed by millions copies in Russia for Russians must know and clearly understand what they are facing in Ukraine. Also I think it is a pity that the Ukrainian TV stations are not broadcast in Russia, many Russians are over-positive towards Ukraine and they have little idea about what really Ukrainians think about them (though, Ukrainian guests on the popular talk shows on Russian TV are doing their best).

    many Russians are over-positive towards Ukraine and they have little idea about what really Ukrainians think about them

    Are the Russian people as naive as you paint them here? How wold the average Russian feel if their neighbor rode in unannounced and without an invitation and ripped off a large chunk of territory via a phoney staged referendum, at the point of a gun, with no international monitors, and then continue to foment a proxy war in two other regions for three years? You’re blowing smoke where it’s clear to see what’s really going on!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N
    You forgot to mention the millennial long war of evil predatory untermensch Moskals against poor noble Ukrainians. Ah, no, you've just mentioned that in other thread.
    , @Boris N

    and then continue to foment a proxy war in two other regions for three years?
     
    You have always hated those untermensch underground moles from "Dombabwe" and "Luganda" and wanted to exterminate them in your dreams, haven't you? So whom to blame? You dreams are coming true!
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  31. Mr. Hack says:
    @Boris N

    Perhaps, it’s high time that Russia take from Ukraine a good example and follow suit?
     
    Right, and first things first Russia must finish off the UkrSSR and BelSSR, two bastard Frankenstein golems of the Soviet regime.

    I think that self immolation would be much more effective and worthwhile!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  32. Boris N says:
    @Mr. Hack

    many Russians are over-positive towards Ukraine and they have little idea about what really Ukrainians think about them
     
    Are the Russian people as naive as you paint them here? How wold the average Russian feel if their neighbor rode in unannounced and without an invitation and ripped off a large chunk of territory via a phoney staged referendum, at the point of a gun, with no international monitors, and then continue to foment a proxy war in two other regions for three years? You're blowing smoke where it's clear to see what's really going on!

    You forgot to mention the millennial long war of evil predatory untermensch Moskals against poor noble Ukrainians. Ah, no, you’ve just mentioned that in other thread.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  33. Boris N says:
    @Mr. Hack

    many Russians are over-positive towards Ukraine and they have little idea about what really Ukrainians think about them
     
    Are the Russian people as naive as you paint them here? How wold the average Russian feel if their neighbor rode in unannounced and without an invitation and ripped off a large chunk of territory via a phoney staged referendum, at the point of a gun, with no international monitors, and then continue to foment a proxy war in two other regions for three years? You're blowing smoke where it's clear to see what's really going on!

    and then continue to foment a proxy war in two other regions for three years?

    You have always hated those untermensch underground moles from “Dombabwe” and “Luganda” and wanted to exterminate them in your dreams, haven’t you? So whom to blame? You dreams are coming true!

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  34. Boris N says:
    @Mr. Hack

    ome publications claim that after recognition of the famine situation in Ukraine during the drought and poor harvests, the Soviet government in Moscow continued to export grain rather than retain its crop to feed the people,[43] though at a significantly lower rate than in previous years. In 1930–31, there had been 5,832,000 metric tons of grains exported. In 1931–32, grain exports declined to 4,786,000 metric tons. In 1932–33, grain exports were just 1,607,000 metric tons, and in 1933–34, this further declined to 1,441,000 metric tons.[44] Officially published data [45] differed slightly:
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_Holodomor

    And what happened next? Two questions still remain: 1) who, then, ate all your Ukrainian lard grain? whom to blame? 2) what did Stalin spend the export money for?

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Anatoly Karlin Comments via RSS