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The Fall of Czarism
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  1. The lines cross about 1922. So Anglos got the unvoiced nature of this initial consonant, common enough internally and finally in English words like tits, just as the last one (for now) was executed.

  2. OT

    The lack of self-awareness is awe-inspiring.

    There’s nothing democratic about the emergence of Facebook group administrators as spokespeople for what passes for a popular movement. Unlike Macron and French legislators, they are unelected.

    […]

    Nevertheless, it’s time to cast away any remaining illusions that social networks can play a positive role in promoting democracy and freedom.

    […]

    A free society can’t ban Facebook, or even completely regulate away its hate-enhancing function; but it should be aware of the risk Facebook and similar platforms pose to democratic institutions. Ironically, the threat to authoritarian regimes is less: they have learned to manipulate opinion on the platforms with propaganda, trolling, bullying and real-life scare tactics against activists.

    A country like France can’t resort to such techniques.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-03/in-the-gilets-jaunes-paris-riots-france-faces-facebook-revolution

    • Replies: @Beckow
  3. Anonymous[149] • Disclaimer says:

    Personally, I prefer ‘czar,’ since, orthographically speaking, it better preserves the link to ‘caesar’.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  4. I pronounce both the same, so should there be a difference?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  5. OT

    The Su-57 is going to receive a new missile similar to the Kinzhal. (Though I guess it will be less capable, since it needs to be smaller to be able to be carried in the internal compartment. Given the smaller radar signature and probably better survivability of the Su-57, it won’t necessarily mean that it will be any less effective a system than the Kinzhal.)

    https://defence-blog.com/news/russias-fifth-generation-jet-fighter-to-receive-hypersonic-missiles.html

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Thorfinnsson
  6. @reiner Tor

    Still OT

    And the Russian Black Sea Fleet to receive 12 new warships. Probably several times stronger than the entire Ukrainian Navy.

    https://defence-blog.com/news/russian-black-sea-fleet-will-get-12-new-warships-in-2019.html

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
    , @Dmitry
  7. neutral says:

    That graph needs some context, where is this being measured and what exactly is being measured.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
  8. Gerard2 says:
    @Anonymous

    Personally, I prefer ‘czar,’ since, orthographically speaking, it better preserves the link to ‘caesar’.

    True. Also interesting to know when the ‘ov’ suffix switched from “off” in describing Russian things. As in Rachmaninoff and Kieff ( almost as ridiculous and stupid as these braindead freaks calling it this bastardized nonsensical “Kyiv” instead of Kiev).

    I was reading an English book from the 1960’s and it was still using the “off” instead of “ov” for Rachmaninov( why the “ch” is used still for him now in English when the “kh” is now widely used, is a complete and utter mystery). I am assuming they were still using Kieff and consistently “off” for everything upto the fall of the Soviet Union, I am sure they used it consistently throughout the Victorian era.

    Unlike the “ch/kh/х ” there was no real reason not to use “ov” from the start

    In the old times the English used the sensible Chaikovsky, instead of the now stupid spelling of Tchaikovsky

  9. @reiner Tor

    I pronounce both the same, so should there be a difference?

    I think ‘Czar’ is French while ‘Tsar’ is German (?).

  10. @reiner Tor

    Well most of these warships include intelligence vessels and logistics ships. Still Russia has more than enough warships to blockade Ukrainian ports/ organize amphibious landings in S/E Ukraine. However the state of the blue water fleet is worrisome. GPV 2020 was a great success for the air force and the army in terms of re-equipment and modernization but a complete failure for the navy. Overall russia’ s shipbuilding industry seems to bein bad shape and the fleet is still aging too fast. RuNavy needs more Gorshkovs ASAP.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @WHAT
    , @AP
  11. @Gerard2

    Also interesting to know when the ‘ov’ suffix switched from “off” in describing Russian things.

    I think it came from the French transliteration.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  12. @Swarthy Greek

    the state of the blue water fleet is worrisome

    However, a blue water navy is probably the single most expensive item of a modern armed force. Russia doesn’t need a blue water fleet as much as it needs other things (brown/green water navy, strong and modern air force and army), and as long as resources are not unlimited, I think it’s the correct decision not to develop its blue water navy much (beyond some measures like modernizing some of the most hopelessly rusty and obsolete vessels like the Kuznetsov).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @Thorfinnsson
  13. @Hyperborean

    I am wrong about German (I don’t know how I forgot Zar und Zimmermann) but French seems right.

    Ac. 1718-1798: czar; 1835: czar ,,quelques-uns écrivent et disent tsar“; 1878: czar ,,quelques-uns écrivent et disent tsar“; 1935: tsar ,,on a dit aussi czar“.

    http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/tsar

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  14. @Hyperborean

    Dutch has ‘Tsaar’, maybe it’s from there?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  15. @reiner Tor

    Russia is building scores of smaller vessels like frigates, corvettes, patrol boats etc., of which it needs a lot to patrol and protect its extremely long maritime borders. For the same reason it’s developing and upgrading it’s coastal defenses with land-based mobile anti-ship missiles and the like.

    I think it’s the correct priority.

  16. @Hyperborean

    If I had to transliterate it to English from scratch, I’d probably choose Tsar. It didn’t happen for a long time because there was a long tradition (of French origin?) of writing Czar. So there’s that.

  17. songbird says:
    @Hyperborean

    The German appears to be “Zar.” French appears to be “Tsar.”

    Maybe, those changed at some point too?

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  18. Gerard2 says:
    @reiner Tor

    I think it came from the French transliteration

    Thanks for that…makes sense!

    I would say that only in the last 15-20 years English became, ‘unofficially”, the de facto official language of diplomacy, instead of French. It would explain why until very recently Rachmaninov was still being spelled with a -off ending in English writings

    Kiev, though has always been “Kiev” in the last 50 years, of any English writings

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  19. @songbird

    The German appears to be “Zar.”

    Yeah, I realised that.

    French appears to be “Tsar.”

    Maybe, those changed at some point too?

    In French, ‘Czar’ appears to be about two centuries older than ‘Tsar’.

    reiner Tor is probably right, the simplest explanation makes the most sense.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  20. WHAT says:
    @Swarthy Greek

    Look at the shipbuilding capability being erected in the Russian Far East. Granted, a lot of that will be tankers, but navy will get something as well. The main problem is the same in principle as in US, got to fend off carrier masturbators somehow to produce actually useful ships for sensible money.

    Luckily, Syrian demonstration of this fleet distributed lethality thing went well; should help.

    • Replies: @Swarthy Greek
  21. @Hyperborean

    In French, ‘Czar’ appears to be about two centuries older than ‘Tsar’.

    Reading my link more thoroughly, I think English and French just standardised the various spellings floating around differently.

  22. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:

    OT:

    https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2018/12/08/32-years-ago-an-aeroflot-pilot-bet-he-could-land-an-airplane-blind-he-couldnt/

    32 Years Ago an Aeroflot Pilot Bet He Could Land an Airplane Blind. He Couldn’t.
    by Gary Leff on December 8, 2018

    Somehow I wasn’t familiar with the story of Aeroflot flight 6502 from Yekaterinburg to Kuibyshev to Grozny. On October 20, 1986 the pilot of the Tupolev Tu-134A bet his co-pilot that he could land the plane blind. He would draw the curtains on the cockpit windows and make an instrument-only approach.

    One of the many bizarre things about this incident is, why would the co-pilot accept a bet in which if he wins he likely dies? There’s only the narrowest window in which he might win the bet and actually collect.

    On approach to Grozny the pilot ignored the ground proximity warning. He ignored an instruction to execute a go-around. He touched down at about 172 miles per hour. The plane flipped and ultimately stopped upside down, killing 70 of the 94 souls on board.

    On the ground the co-pilot tried to save the lives of passengers on the scene, but died of cardiac arrest himself while being transported to the hospital. The pilot received a 15 year sentence, though reportedly had that reduced to 6 years.

    Eight years later, in 1994, the pilot of Aeroflot flight SU593 from Moscow to Hong Kong allowed his 16 year old son sit at the controls. He accidentally disengaged autopilot control of the Airbus A310’s ailerons. That sent the plane into a near vertical dive. While the pilot managed to level off the plane, he stalled the aircraft while pulling up and crashed into mountains in South Siberia.

  23. Dmitry says:
    @reiner Tor

    Think about a larger picture.

    In recent years, oil/gas revenue has reached up to 50% of the budget, depending on the years.

    Sometime in the 2030s years, oil demand will probably peak (peak oil demand).

    Is the future emergency to have a lot of new ships during the 2030s, and a restored neosoviet foreign policy? Or to have modern industry, that will allow the best human capital of the next generation to have good jobs.

    Obviously, solving the latter problem is a lot more difficult than building things like ships – you can’t just put money on the problem. Already 10 years ago (and before anyone knows about Elon Musk), Medvedev was promising to solve the problem. Simply giving money to Chubais for things like Rosnano, has not had very impressive results. And things like Innopolis, was more a subsidy for construction industry (which included building useless tunnels under the campus to cross a simple road), than for computer science.

    Still, the emergency has not changed – it is to develop future industries, while there is still vast revenue from oil/gas (before oil demand peaks, perhaps in the 2030s) available to invest into this area.

    For cost of rebuilding things like “blue-water navy” (as was still envisaged a few years ago), there should be vast investment into education at all levels. (Unfortunately, educational reform of the last few years is in the wrong direction – at least in the area of breaking off the advanced component of the maths exam, and having declining proportion then choosing as an option to do the advanced exam each year).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @The Big Red Scary
  24. Dmitry says:
    @Gerard2

    was still using the “off” instead of “ov” for Rachmaninov

    I don’t know. Aesthetically, I think this “Rachmaninoff” looks quite cool when it’s written like that with a unusual double “f”. Perhaps, it is a matter of taste.

    • Replies: @AP
  25. @reiner Tor

    Here’s a photo of a Kinzhal on an MiG-31:

    And the Su-57 exposing its internal weapons bays:

    Su-57 airframe seems to have been designed from the outset to allow for carriage of larger internal stores than the F-22 and J-XX. Of course, it could just be path dependency since the Su-57 airframe appears to be a stealthy evolution of the Su-27 airframe (engines widely spaced, tail boom).

    If the new missile is really intended to be carried internally (remember the Su-57 is smaller than the MiG-31), then obviously it will have shorter range.

    Incidentally, the Western powers have reasons for not developing and deploying supersonic (or in the case of the Kinzhal, hypersonic) antiship missiles. This piece is from 1997, but still worth reading: https://www.scribd.com/document/267396243/Naval-Engineers-Journal-Volume-109-Issue-1-1997-J-F-McEachron-Subsonic-and-Supersonic-Antiship-Missiles-An-Effectiveness-and-Utility-Comparison

    I assume the Soviets chose to develop supersonic antiship missiles in order to reduce the possibility of inflight interception by US carrier-borne interceptors. The AV-MF intended to engage NATO task forces with long-range bombers operating at high altitude with nuclear-armed missiles, which minimized the deficiencies of supersonic antiship missiles.

  26. inertial says:
    @Hyperborean

    Czar is from German actually. Sigismund von Herberstein, a Holy Roman Imperial diplomat, introduced this spelling in the 1500s.

    • Replies: @jtgw
    , @Hippopotamusdrome
  27. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    (and before anyone knows about Elon Musk),

    In the new interview, Musk supports Trump’s Spaceforce.

    I wish she would ask him if they’re building it to defend against UFOs (ie. possibly a valid reason for intelligent man like Musk, if he knows something we don’t know, like the Bigelow Aerospace guy claims – or is it just more nonsense American military expenditure against China/Russia?)…

  28. AKAHorace says:
    @neutral

    Look up google ngram

    https://books.google.com/ngrams

    Although I warn you it can be a very pleasant way of wasting time.

    • Replies: @songbird
  29. @reiner Tor

    The Kuznetsov should be scrapped. Even if it were actually reliable, the air wing is too small to be useful and the lack of a catapult means the aircraft are restricted in the amount of stores they can carry.

    Additionally, having just one carrier is useless. Aside from the fact that maintenance requirements mean that it can’t always be available, the Pacific War demonstrated that effective carrier operations require a task force operating 3-4 carriers.

    In the Falklands War Britain deployed two commando carriers and pressed a merchant ship (Atlantic Conveyor) into service as a jury rigged carrier. The Argies were operating at the absolute limit of their range, did not engage the RN with warships, and did not have any serious land-based air defenses. Yet the British barely prevailed and would’ve lost if the Argies had fuzed some of their bombs correctly (or the French hadn’t provided the British with detailed information on the Exocet missile).

    See this post: https://navy-matters.blogspot.com/2018/11/carrier-strike.html

    So what could the Admiral Kuznetsov possibly be used for? Basically just “presence” and conducting theatrical raids on Third World opponents.

    Aside from the USN and JMSDF (whose small carriers are specialized for ASW operations) all other carriers in the world are simply vanity items. And the USN effectively treats its carriers as vanity items by constantly shrinking their carrier air wings (God forbid we lose a hull, and thus a major fleet command) and sending out single carriers with inadequate escorts on long “deployments”.

    Imagine the number of bombers, antiship missiles, ISR platforms, and tanker aircraft that could be kept in service for the cost of the Admiral Kuznetsov.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  30. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    defend against UFOs (ie. possibly a valid reason for intelligent man like Musk, if he knows something we don’t know, like the Bigelow Aerospace guy claims

    Offtopic – Did anyone believe this article? (Or is just complete nonsense fake news common with New York Times)? If not… wtf.

    Contracts obtained by The Times show a congressional appropriation of just under $22 million beginning in late 2008 through 2011. The money was used for management of the program, research and assessments of the threat posed by the objects.

    The funding went to Mr. Bigelow’s company, Bigelow Aerospace, which hired subcontractors and solicited research for the program.

    Under Mr. Bigelow’s direction, the company modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Mr. Elizondo and program contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena. Researchers also studied people who said they had experienced physical effects from encounters with the objects and examined them for any physiological changes. In addition, researchers spoke to military service members who had reported sightings of strange aircraft.

    “Internationally, we are the most backward country in the world on this issue,” Mr. Bigelow said in an interview. “Our scientists are scared of being ostracized, and our media is scared of the stigma. China and Russia are much more open and work on this with huge organizations within their countries.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html

  31. songbird says:
    @AKAHorace

    It has a limited usefulness though, since older texts don’t go through automated character recognition as easily.

  32. Butina to change not guilty plea.

  33. Sean says:

    Führer Fuehrer Fuhrer

  34. @Thorfinnsson

    The reason to have a carrier in service is to keep or gather some experience operating carriers. So it probably makes sense for China, and might make sense for Russia if Russia believed that it would later afford a bigger carrier force. Since it’s highly unlikely, it’s probably a waste of money.

    Another issue is availability: a third of all carriers are normally in port, so with only one carrier you won’t have even one for four months a year.

  35. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @reiner Tor

    Butina to change not guilty plea.

    Here are more details:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/alleged-russian-spy-maria-butina-reaches-plea-deal-with-prosecutors/

    Alleged Russian Spy Maria Butina Reaches Plea Deal with Prosecutors
    By JACK CROWE
    December 10, 2018 11:20 AM

    Maria Butina, a Russian national and former American University student accused of acting as a Kremlin spy in the U.S., reached a plea deal with prosecutors Monday months after initially pleading not guilty to illegally acting as a foreign agent.

    Butina, who stands accused of infiltrating Republican political circles to advance Russian interests during the 2016 presidential campaign, had maintained her innocence from the time she was arrested in July until her attorneys filed a request for a “change of plea” hearing that could happen as soon as Tuesday.

    The 30-year-old Russian national moved to the U.S. to pursue a graduate degree after founding a gun-rights organization in Russia. Her history as a gun-rights activist allowed her to make inroads with top NRA officials and other prominent conservative activists.

    While her defense attorneys have maintained that those contacts amounted to nothing more than professional networking, federal prosecutors have argued that she was working to further Russian foreign-policy goals at the direction of Alexander Torshin, the deputy director of the Russian central bank.

    It remains unclear exactly how Butina’s efforts fit into the broader Kremlin operation to help elect Trump over Democrat Hillary Clinton in 2016, but it appears she was keen to help overturn existing economic sanctions against Russia. At a public town-hall event in Las Vegas in 2015, Butina had the opportunity to question Trump directly regarding his thoughts on the sanctions imposed against Russia in 2014 to punish their annexation of Crimea from Ukraine.

    “We get along with Putin,” Trump told Butina. “I don’t think you’d need the sanctions.”

    Butina also tried unsuccessfully to broker a meeting between then-candidate Trump and Torshin at an NRA convention in May 2016. Torshin and Butina met briefly with Donald Trump Jr. at the event, according to documents provided to Congress.

    • Replies: @WHAT
  36. WHAT says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    >Accurately directed point defense guns can defeat both subsonic and supersonic ASMs.
    Phalanx can`t even target supersonics.

    >A subsonic ASM will likely have higher survivability than the supersonic ASM against IR guided SAMs.
    USN is not fielding anything in IR for last mile defence.

    And then there are things like Mosquito/Yakhont/Onyx/Brahmos. True, at least one got into serial production after publishing of the essay, but it hardly was a secret.

    “I don`t have a nice modern antiship missile, so I don`t need one”.

  37. WHAT says:
    @Anonymous

    >spy
    What was she accused of, again? Lobbying without greasing the right palms first? I don`t expect much from yet another neocohen rag(on its last legs as well), but surely they can provide a substantially sounding charge at least?

  38. @Thorfinnsson

    If you can build many more subsonic missiles, then perhaps building and launching thousands of them could overwhelm the defenses anyway, couldn’t it?

  39. Gerard2 says:
    @reiner Tor

    Butina to change not guilty plea.

    keep a girl in solitary confinement , unable to speak to even her parents….wait 6 months and then effectively force her into a plea bargain

    ……..a scumbag legal system

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  40. Anon[236] • Disclaimer says:

    Disappointed that a single chart & a paragraph is all fat karlin has given us this past month.

    Anyway, as far as the carrier stuff goes.

    USA carriers are basically a floating air wing.
    Can independently engage in air ops.

    Ski Ramp Carriers are more envisioned as providing air cover to a fleet.

    You can travel 100km in minutes by air or hours by ship.

    Eventually, Russia India China all 3 will have catapult carriers by 2040s I think.

    Sadly, by then I estimate there will be no thin white women left in America.

  41. I think y’all are right that blue water navy isn’t a priority for Russia. A navy is for foreign adventures and tormenting 3rd world countries. They are for geographical piracy and always have been: Sea Peoples, Vikings, Spaniards, Anglos. The extent to which Russia may need to intervene in other countries is limited to the Baltic, Black and Med seas, for the most part. Shore and air launched anti ship missiles are a lot cheaper than the USS Ford.

    Big priority is to maintain MAD (so they need subs sure) and continue to ensure likely victory in a ground clash in Eastern Europe. Really remarkable how much ‘ring for the ruble’ they get out of their modest defence budget in this regard.

    • Replies: @Thumbhead
  42. Beckow says:
    @Hyperborean

    …positive role…passes for…bullying…

    And we are home. That is the vocabulary of the eternal High School assistant principals. They are in charge now. From what I hear, Macron was a good student in his Lycee, that is why they put him in charge, all else is just misbehaviour and bullying…

  43. @WHAT

    Zvezda is indeed a good step forward for the future. However Russia still has lots of shipyards that are hopelessly outdated and depend on MoD orders to stay open. One of the reasons the navy ordered extra Stereguschy corvettes was because shipyards like Amurskaya couldn’t build the more advanced Gremyaschiy model. Still there’s hope for the future as Severnaya is being modernized. It is pretty probable that SEVMASH will also get expanded and renovated.

  44. @Thorfinnsson

    The picture with the SU 57 is photoshopped. The SU 57 carries only 4 R 77 missiles in its ventral bays, not 6.

  45. jtgw says:
    @inertial

    Yes, for a long time I was mystified by the spelling. The only language I knew that used the “cz” digraph was Polish, but it represents the “ch” sound in that language (while it uses “c” for the “ts” sound). I finally found out what you did, namely that “cz” is an archaic German representation of “ts” (nowadays written “z” in German, or “tz” if in the middle or at the end of a word).

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  46. @Dmitry

    In the new interview, Musk supports Trump’s Spaceforce.

    I wish she would ask him if they’re building it to defend against UFOs (ie. possibly a valid reason for intelligent man like Musk, if he knows something we don’t know, like the Bigelow Aerospace guy claims – or is it just more nonsense American military expenditure against China/Russia?)…

    Is this really so strange?

    China has already reorganised the military branches into the Ground Force, Navy, Air Force, Rocket Force (ballistic missiles), and the Strategic Support Force (cyber, space and EW).

    Just like historically, splitting the Air force of onto an independent branch.

    I don’t understand why people consider it a joke. It may or may not be wise, but it seems like a serious proposal.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Dmitry
  47. @jtgw

    Hungarian often used “cz” for that sound until the first half of the 20th century. It’s now replaced with just “c”.

  48. AP says:
    @Swarthy Greek

    Still Russia has more than enough warships to blockade Ukrainian ports/ organize amphibious landings in S/E Ukraine.

    Once these things are mass produced and go online (1-2 years) attempted coastal invasions will become costly:

    http://en.c4defence.com/Agenda/ukraine-tests-new-or-modernized-missiles/7529/1

    • Replies: @WHAT
  49. AP says:
    @Dmitry

    “-off” is how White Russians distinguish themselves from former Sovoks, who use “-ov.”

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @Gerard2
  50. @Gerard2

    I am assuming they were still using Kieff and consistently “off” for everything upto the fall of the Soviet Union

    First time I have ever seen Kieff in my (rather long) life. According to Google Ngram Kieff had its last “peak” in 1918 and had all but disappeared by 1950. In the 19th century, however, it was very competitive with Kiev, even exceeding it in popularity for brief periods.

  51. @Hyperborean

    According to the Oxford English Dictionary:

    The spelling with cz– is against the usage of all Slavonic languages; the word was so spelt by Herberstein, Rerum Moscovit. Commentarii 1549, the chief early source of knowledge as to Russia in Western Europe, whence it passed into the Western Languages generally; in some of these it is now old-fashioned; the usual German form is now zar; French adopted tsar during the 19th cent. This also became frequent in English towards the end of that century, having been adopted by the Times newspaper as the most suitable English spelling.

  52. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Gerard2

    It has been my understanding that spellings like “Orloff” and “Kieff” are French influenced.

  53. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    France became refuge for a good number of White Russians, who in that locale were prone to using that spelling.

    Others who settled elsewhere spelled in the more popularly known form.

    Keep in mind that some French speaking Russians who fled Russia for non-French areas were prone to using the French variant.

    Some examples of US based White Russians using the f and v versions:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Biletnikoff

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Jaakko Raipala
  54. Russian “v” (in cyrillic looks like “B”) in final position is pronounced like english “f”

    therefore

    the English have it wrong, the French have it right: it’s

    RACHMANINOFF

    • Agree: byrresheim
  55. @Dmitry

    I wish she would ask him if they’re building it to defend against UFOs (ie. possibly a valid reason for intelligent man like Musk, if he knows something we don’t know, like the Bigelow Aerospace guy claims – or is it just more nonsense American military expenditure against China/Russia?)…

    We already have a space force. Up until now, it’s just been a part of the air force. The US Air Force used to be a part of the army, i.e. the US Army Air Corps. Breaking the Space Force out means the commanding general gets to use its funding to prioritize missions that are exclusively space-related rather than have to serve as the red-headed stepchild of the US Air Force. Same reason the US Army Air Corps became an independent service branch. If we ever get off this planet in any numbers, I’d expect the Space Force to become the largest branch of all, budget-wise, and perhaps even numbers-wise.

  56. AP says:
    @Mikhail

    I’ve also seen Klebnikov spelled “Klebnikoff”:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4114215.stm

    “They included the fatal shooting of Paul Klebnikoff, the well-known editor of Russian Forbes magazine.”

    Could Klebnikov have changed to the Sovok spelling because of his work in post-Soviet Russia? (I’m not saying this was the case, I have no idea). Random googling led to a link to someone knowing him as Klebnikoff as a kid.

    Seems to have been a truly great man. Well, Whites were generally superior to Sovoks.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  57. Andy says:

    probably this is entirely due to the ortographic reform of Russian the Bolsheviks did early on (the same way after Mao died Peking become Beijing in the Western press, as a result of a new official romanization of the language)

    • Replies: @theoldnorth
  58. Irishman says:

    Isn’t tsar more commonly used in British English while czar is more American?

  59. @Mikhail

    Russians in Finland (which was using the Latin alphabet) during the imperial period tended to use the -off ending, long before the revolution and Whites and Reds. You still see it in old street names, company names etc, like

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinebrychoff

    which has been operating for 200 years under the name of the original dude. Russians who stayed in Finland after the revolution seem to have just picked the -ov spelling (which makes a lot more sense in Finland anyway since Finnish doesn’t use “f”).

    It’s probably French influence since it was the elite lingua franca at the time. Actually a big reason why Finland became rebellious in the end was that our Germanic aristocrats got really mad when Nikolai II told them that Petrograd isn’t willing to communicate with Finland in French anymore and that the aristocracy would have to learn Russian.

    Finns tend to put old, aristocratic, prestigious connotations on the -off ending so you sometimes see antique stores and the like using fake Russian names spelled with -off. It’s a bit cheapened though when “koff” is one of the biggest cheap lagers in the country…

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  60. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    I don’t believe so with Klebnikov. Overall, Whites seem more prone to the f ending over v than Sovoks. It’s by no means 100% absolute.

    One branch on my family tree has been spelled as Orloff.

  61. WHAT says:
    @AP

    >ancient S-125 stock
    >khokhol “engineering”
    >mass produced

    Gotta love the khokhol delusion. How`s that water pipe mortar coming up, killed another test team yet?

    • Replies: @AP
  62. @Dmitry

    breaking off the advanced component of the maths exam, and having declining proportion then choosing as an option to do the advanced exam each year

    Which exam? And do you mean that the advanced mathematics portion used to be mandatory, but can now be postponed for a year?

    While I do think mathematics is very important for civilization, and the more people who understand it the better, I’m extremely skeptical that the coercive methods of teaching it, whether traditional or new-fangled, do more good than harm. It might be true that the proles need to have reading, ‘riting, and ‘rithmetic pounded into them otherwise they’ll never get it, but this is an empirical question about which it seems there is not much evidence, other than that the pounding we currently do is not very effective. But for people who want to seriously learn, school is mostly background noise, often distracting.

    On the other hand, this chick and others like her are doing more good for the future of civilization than all the schools in all the countries of the world:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Vihart

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @Dmitry
  63. Thumbhead says:
    @Boswald Bollocksworth

    Navies are for Chads, that’s correct. Having a blue-water navy is a sign of being a powerful country that knows how to assert itself.

    Chad naval countries – exploring the oceans, conquering new continents, settling new lands

    Virgin land-bound losers – squabbling over a few Danube potato-patch valleys for centuries

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
  64. @Thumbhead

    Chad naval countries – exploring the oceans, conquering new continents, settling new lands

    But in the long-term it is easier for the Mother Country to hang on to adjacent land colonies than overseas colonies.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  65. @The Big Red Scary

    But for people who want to seriously learn, school is mostly background noise, often distracting.

    Such people don’t exist in the real world. Serious learning can’t happen without serious pain, and so building a tolerance for boredom, bullshit and passive aggression is step one in serious learning. That won’t happen without coercion.

    That said, yes, American schools are total shit. But not because they don’t coddle kids who ‘just want to have fun’, they’re shit because they’re basically prisons.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
  66. Giuseppe says:
    @Gerard2

    Both the -off instead of -ov and the Tch- instead of Ch- are due to these names passing through a French language filter before making their way to English.

    I once made the mistake of using the -ov spelling for an acquaintance whose emigré family had passed through France. I was corrected, they had preserved the French spelling -off and were not to be confused with -ov people, more recent immigrants.

    I also like czar over tsar because it preserves Caesar in the orthography, but tsar is completely faithful to the Russian language, at least insofar as two English letters can be made to represent a single Russian one, ц.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  67. @anonymous coward

    Such people don’t exist in the real world.

    Freeman Dyson said that he solved a 1000 differential equations one summer when he was a teenager, just for the fun of it.

    Without exception, all of the interesting, successful people I know were not coerced, but rather pushed themselves very hard. And the people I know who were coerced, by their parents and teachers, are mediocrities.

    American schools are total shit.

    It’s not a uniquely American problem.

  68. AP says:
    @WHAT

    ancient S-125 stock

    Modernized S-125s are also used by Poland, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, and Armenia.

    khokhol “engineering”

    Russia still using Ukrainian rocket components:

    http://spaceflight101.com/zenit-angosat-1/zenit-blasts-off-with-angolan-communications-satellite/

    How`s that water pipe mortar coming up, killed another test team yet?

    Because no other army has accidents with mortars:

    https://www.newsday.com/news/nation/8-marines-killed-by-mortar-in-nev-training-accident-1.4845139

    8 Marines killed by mortar in Nev. training accident

    https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/IDF-captain-killed-in-Tzelim-training-accident-439487

    IDF OFFICER KILLED BY MORTAR SHELL IN TRAINING ACCIDENT

    Yishai Rosales, 23, a company commander in the Kfir Infantry Brigade, was killed when a mortar shell exploded during a combat drill.

    • Replies: @WHAT
  69. Dmitry says:
    @The Big Red Scary

    It was broken off into two exam papers since 2015. So if you think of all topics which used to be in part C of the exam – now all these only in part 2 of the higher option exam.

    Number who choose the higher exam option was in its first year around 70%. By now, it’s around 60%.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
  70. Dmitry says:
    @Hyperborean

    What do you think of these claims by Bigelow Aerospace, according to New York Times?

    So they are claiming Russia and China are more advanced than America, in … recovering/analyzing UFO materials.

    I read the article twice, and still could only understand that this is their claim.

    • Replies: @songbird
  71. @Dmitry

    Are you talking about EГЭ?

    Wikipedia says

    В 2015 году экзамен по математике был разделён на базовый и профильный уровни”

    so that seems to be what you mean.

    As far as I understand, the point of this exam is to be useful in making university admission decisions, but at least at some institutions, departments can make their own decisions on admission criteria, so it’s unclear to me why anyone should care what’s in ЕГЭ. It’s just something the Ministry of Education does to make itself feel important.

    By the way, related to an earlier conversation, Wikipedia also says

    Осенью 2016 года амурские школьники сдавали пробный ЕГЭ по китайскому языку во всероссийском масштабе. Также в 2020 году планируется провести пробный ЕГЭ по китайскому языку по всей России.

    So now maybe even losers will have a reason to learn Chinese!

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  72. Dmitry says:
    @The Big Red Scary

    Sorry I don’t understand the argument of your comment.

    Teacher will cover the topics you need for the exam, and your final level will be what is measured in your exams.

    so it’s unclear to me why anyone should care what’s in ЕГЭ.

    Except teachers and students and parents, and those such as us who have presumably not in school anymore, but are discussing what is the level of currently graduating students.

    What happened is all the topics in the part C of the exam which used to scare everyone, are now only in Part 2 of the higher option of the exam. 40% students, are not choosing the higher option already – so they will now not have to worry about studying or understanding any of those topics.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
  73. Mikhail says: • Website

    On spellings of Russian Empire/Soviet origin families, Vladimir Pozner initially had his name presented as Posner. The latter is more preferred among Jewish families, who’ve lived in the US for a good length of time.

  74. @Dmitry

    My point is that the only reasonable purpose of exams is to serve as signals for acceptance into employment or further education, but that exams designed specifically for this purpose by the employer or educational institution are much more useful for this purpose. There are basically two things you want in an employee or student, intelligence and conscientiousness. In the absence of the former, doing well on an exam like ЕГЭ is, I suppose, evidence of the latter.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  75. @Andy

    It had nothing to do with the Bolshevik orthographic reform, which was 1. a reform of Cyrillic (Kyrillic?) orthography, obviously, not Latin and 2. did not affect the letters discussed here.

    With respect, why would you venture to speak about probabilities when it comes to something concerning which you clearly have no knowledge? You could have just asked whether it had something to do with that orthographic reform you remember reading about somewhere.

  76. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    The stuff that Bigelow uses in his modules is basically tech cast off by NASA in the ’60s or even ’50s. That doesn’t mean it can’t be useful, but I doubt he ever had his hands on any advanced alien alloys.

    Regarding the relative space supremacy of China or Russia. As far as I know, China launched more rockets than the U.S. this year. That may include some economic distortion, but it will be interesting to see the totals of the coming years.

    Re: war with aliens. If they were hostile, we would not stand a snowball’s chance in hell. If they really were observing us, then we are probably safe because the Zoo Hypothesis would then be correct.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  77. Dmitry says:
    @The Big Red Scary

    It’s simply, in preparation for the exam, topics kids are learning to in the last year of school. So with the reform more can now guiltlessly avoid larger numbers of maths topics, depending on university course they plan to study, and we might see this avoiding proportion increase (although is steady around 60% for the last couple of years).

  78. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    So we are assuming he (Bigelow) is successfully trolling New York Times to write that article? Article is really strange, since it writes about this crazy topic like it is a simple fact.

    Or it’s possible Bigelow is not a troll, but is simply even crazier than Musk, and believes all this himself?

    If we assume he is that crazy, then we can assume the idea Russia would be more advanced on this than America is just another pure delusion of his without evidence.

  79. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    “-off” is how White Russians distinguish themselves from former Sovoks, who use “-ov.”

    errr……on the Bulgarians the “off” was being used for a long time, including during and after Communism you dumb retard

    Notwithstanding , how bizarre it is for a freak as yourself to get involved in any whites vs reds debate…..which is more an excuse for attention-whoring time-wasting then actual opinion making on both groups….who are infinitely superior to whichever failed nutcase, fake group that a trash as you identifies with

    • Replies: @AP
  80. songbird says:

    At first, I was wondering if “UFO” was somehow referring to micrometeors and tiny orbital debris that pose an impact danger to spacecraft. I think the material he uses is supposedly slightly more resistant to these type of impacts. But upon further research, he seems to be alien-obsessed .

    I would paint him as high-functioning crazy. His obsession seems to be partly because he grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada. The U.S. has a weird alien subculture – I don’t know if there is anything like it elsewhere. Probably a combination of Hollywood, the spacerace, and having a major touristy city near vast swathes of secret, federally-owned land. Not to mention supermarket tabloids.

    I wonder if his contention could be based on fringe literature. Knowledge of one government’s top secret program would be impressive, pretending to have knowledge of three and their relative merits seems pretty nutty.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  81. AP says:
    @Gerard2

    how bizarre it is for a freak as yourself to get involved in any whites vs reds debate

    Why? Several of my relatives were involved in the White movement. One of them even organized a military force of Rusyn POWs who fought for Kolchak in Siberia

    My great-grandparents provided shelter on their Galician estate to dozens of Whites fleeing westward.

    It must really hurt you, Sovok, that the Whites who escaped from Sovok apes such as your ancestors, just like Banderists, have generally lived very good lives in the West, much better than yours. It’s a life that most Russians would have had, if only they hadn’t been ruled by the Sovok apes.

    Also, it is funny that if I chose to be a Russian (I would not, though I have all the opportunities), I would be a better and more successful Russian than you are.

    Maybe that is why you stalk my posts, like you did this one? 🙂

    • Replies: @Gerard2
  82. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    Lol, exactly – the New York Times article is writing in a very calm way, but it’s statements are seeming completely insane (Bigelow Aerospace has buildings for storage of unknown materials from UFOs) .

    Really someone needs to explain what this article is.

    . The U.S. has a weird alien subculture – I don’t know if there is anything like it elsewhere.

    Obsession about this topic, particularly for yellow press. is the same everywhere.

    American genius, was to use it for the entertainment industry, to create so many films and television.

    I wonder if his contention could be based on fringe literature. Knowledge of one government’s top secret program would be impressive, pretending to have knowledge of three and their relative merits seems pretty nutty.

    This is difficulty of the article. So he (Bigelow) is not some ordinary loser (he has connection to the highest levels in America’s government).

    At the same time, he could still be just crazy, or alternatively just trolling us.

    His company has contracts for US government
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigelow_Expandable_Activity_Module

    And he seems to know people

    View this post on Instagram

    Serious.

    A post shared by Blair Bigelow (@blairbigelow) on

    But there seems some madness in his eyes?

  83. WHAT says:
    @AP

    >m-muh rump state analogues
    Yes, and they for some weird reason don`t try to ghetto fix them into anti-shipping role. Perhaps they have mental capacity to understand that predictable khokhol-style engineering results will occur.

    >m-muh soviet rocketry legacy
    …scrapes, being bought out by ching-chong nip-nong. Those that didn`t run away to Russia earlier, anyway.

    >m-muh water pipe mortar is just like those real mortars
    Except those other mortars actually made it to the armies and in general function without murdering crews, lol. It will be a hoot when this pipe starts to actually mogilize the svinoforce. …Did I reproduce that part correctly?

    • Replies: @AP
  84. AP says:
    @WHAT

    Are you a semi-retarded teenager? Serious question.

  85. Seraphim says:
    @Giuseppe

    @ two English letters can be made to represent a single Russian one, ц.

    The most sensible answer. It helps to have some knowledge of the Russian language.

  86. @Thorfinnsson

    I thought about that spreadsheet about the pros and cons of hypersonic missiles.

    Is it true that such a missile must fly high? I think the Russian missiles hug the sea anyway. I guess it just needs to be bigger or use some tricks to reduce drag.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  87. @reiner Tor

    It’s not required to fly high. High altitude maximizes range. Russian fanboys inform us breathlessly that many Russian ASMs have sea skimming capabilities.

    During the Cold War the AV-MF intended to launched nuclear-armed supersonic ASMs from long range at high altitude at NATO fleets.

    The Kirov battlecruisers on the other hand intended to launch their supersonic ASMs in sea skimming mode (with the option for one missile to pop up to higher altitude for targeting purposes), perhaps in part because a surface warship would obviously need to close to closer range than a bomber flying at high altitude owing to the radar horizon.

    Note that I’m not an opponent of high speed ASMs (this is directed more at another commenter). It just appears the West has its reasons for not having them.

    It does seem prudent to have both options since you don’t know what will work in war, and having a design ready to go certainly speeds things up if it turns out the subsonic designs aren’t so hot these days.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  88. @Thorfinnsson

    I agree. Regarding range while sea skimming, I guess over time you will get better at it. I suspect some nice tricks might be learned (like supercavitation with torpedoes), so it’s possible that the thing is actually easier than envisaged by the Americans who never even tried it. Anyway, probably the issue is mostly solved by brute force (i.e. bigger and stronger missiles with more fuel to increase range), so it’s simply a question of costs: subsonic missiles are that much cheaper.

    Overall, the best strategy seems to be to build very large numbers of subsonic missiles (which could overwhelm the defenses by sheer numbers) while at the same time building a smaller number of supersonic/hypersonic missiles. Yes, you cannot know which one will work, or which one will be better under the circumstances of a real war against a peer or near peer (or superior peer, for the Russians).

  89. We can definitely see this in World War 2, where a large diversity of weapons were used against shipping:

    • Naval gunfire (don’t laugh–the aircraft carrier HMS Glorious was sunk by the German battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau)
    • Torpedoes
    • Mines
    • Dive bombing
    • Skip bombing
    • Aerial rockets
    • Aircraft gunfire
    • Guided bombs

    Probably the biggest unexpected discovery was that torpedo bombers were a lot less effective than dive bombers.

    Guided bombs were devastating when the Germans first deployed them, but then quickly rendered useless by ECM.

    • Agree: reiner Tor
  90. “Tsar” is for things in Russia or Russian, such as the head of state, the Tsar Bomba, Tsarists, the Tsarina, etc, and pronounced similar to the Russian.

    “Czar” is for things that are not of Russian origin, is pronounced as “zahr” with an English “z”, and is typically used to denote some Head Bureaucrat In Charge handed unified authority over a project that spans multiple institutions or departments. Being easier to pronounce for native English speakers, it is the preferred form when not transliterating a Russian term.

  91. Gerard2 says:
    @AP

    Why? Several of my relatives were involved in the White movement. One of them even organized a military force of Rusyn POWs who fought for Kolchak in Siberia

    HAHAHAHA! I can’t believe I didn’t read this fantasist fucktard crock of shite earlier. You’re smply lying about being related to that guy….as befits a fantasist scumbag crock of shit as yourself. No way that garbage is possibly true, an attention-whore, blatantly ashamed of it’s family would have mentioned this garbage before, if remotely true…and an excrement as yourself seems to be too thick to understand that most people did have relatives on both sides you idiot

    My great-grandparents provided shelter on their Galician estate to dozens of Whites fleeing westward.

    more laughable bullshit……..and for the REAL inbred neanderthal grandparents who raped tortured and burned many people to death in an opportunist move during WW2?

    have generally lived very good lives in the West, much better than yours.

    lol….I think I speak for everyone here, where if I existed as an insecure fantasist, fucktard nutjob, inhabiting here writing millions of words each week, literally stalking the blog and every other pro-Russian one ( pro-Ukraine blog with comments being an oxymoron) with nothing else to do..then I and any sane person would kill themselves. You know you exist as a sad,loser freak

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