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Chechen Carthage: Après Kadyrov, Le Déluge
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The other day the Chechen social media page vk.com/karfagen was banned.

This is not surprising, considering that it was genuinely extremist from head to toe, though it is perhaps telling of the Russian state’s priorities that it took longer for Roskomnadzor to catch onto them than it did for it to illegally block the moderate Russian nationalist website Sputnik i Pogrom.

The ban came a few hours after a Meduza article by Daniil Turovsky on the webside, which was translated into English by Kevin Rothrock. The website, allegedly run by a 19 year old Chechen student, was devoted to harassing young women who shared “immoral” photos on social media, including posting their addresses and relatives’ contact details. If that resulted in honor killings, that’s just too bad, one of the Carthage activists shouted in all caps: “IF I FIND OUT THAT SOME VAINAKH FAMILY HAS KILLED THEIR OWN DAUGHTER FOR SOME SERIOUS OFFENSE, THEN I WILL STAND UP AND APPLAUD, BECAUSE IT’S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.” Women were forbidden from commenting.

Apart from doing their bit to make White Sharia real in Chechnya, the Carthage activists also embraced a sort of horseshoe theory Islamism (“You’re trying to distort our religion, publicly promoting the slogan ‘Islam is a religion of peace and good’”), as well as ultranationalist rhetoric. As with women, this extended to website administration; a tenth of the user base identified as Russians were kicked out in September. This is connected with Carthage billing itself as a “youth movement for the purification of the Vainakh people.” They did not mince words about their opinions of the Russian kuffar, who “pair off with anyone they want like animals” and “conceive children in the nightclub toilets.” Although they don’t promote Chechen independence, that is clearly driven by pragmatic reasons: “Chechnya is currently a subject of the Russian Federation, and it would be foolish of me to promote separatism among the masses.”

Now one might perhaps rejoinder that these are just some isolated nutjobs. One can mention the usual canard that there are Christian and non-Chechen extremists too.

But here’s the key difference: The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.

For an online community where joining is entirely voluntary – i.e., the opposite of Kadyrov’s rallies – and not even entirely riskless, given the propensity of the most outspoken Islamists to be “disappeared” within Chechnya, these are astounding figures.

For comparison, the far right Ukrainian organization Right Sector on vk.com also has around 50,000 people while drawing from 30 times the population. Sputnik i Pogrom itself, perhaps the most popular Russian “extremist” resource, has around 110,000 supporters on that platform.

Even “normie” Ukrainian mass movements that dominated the headlines for months on end in 2013-2014 such as Euromaidan and Antimaidan still have 600,000 and 500,000 supporters, respectively, constituting about 1% of Ukraine’s population each, despite both movements also having a substantial international component.

Nor is this confined to Chechnya; earlier this year, Meduza had also reported on Chechen thot patrols harassing and threatening Chechen women who got too friendly with the kuffar, a story that got picked up in the Western alternate media. Carthage also had plans to expand to Ingushetia and Dagestan, at least before it was shut down. (There is also a Tatar “analogue” to Carthage called TTM, which remains accessible to date, though it only has 1,200 followers and my cursory examination of it suggests it’s more in the vein of /pol/-style trolling than hardcore Islamist nationalism).

All of this indicates that Carthage is the genuine voice of the Chechen people, as grassroots as the 1.8% interethnic marriage rates of Chechen women in Russia.

Once the Putin-Kadyrov “special relationship” breaks down due to political or actuarial factors, a new generation of skinny jeans wearing, organic food court-frequenting Russians will have to reenter political negotiations with a new generation of young, Internet-savvy Chechens who are more into stonings for adultery in the Caucasus Emirate.

 
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  1. …but why Carthage?

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    • Replies: @songbird
    Clash of civilizations.
    , @attiIathehen
    Rome Vs. Carthage. The Punic Wars.
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  2. >=3.5%. Finally, a base rate estimate for Chechen extremism. You can probably do even better by extrapolating from vk demographics to get a base rate estimate for young Chechen males.

    By the way, I don’t go to nightclubs, or even toilets therein, but I’m pretty sure that I saw a Russian couple (potentially) reproducing in a rather muddy pond in dacha country. So maybe even these Carthage guys sometimes make a good point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    in a rather muddy pond in dacha country

    You can just look at the pictures that AK posts of himself and know that he would never mud-wrestle, even for the best piece of Russian ass ever.
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  3. songbird says:
    @Daniil Adamov
    ...but why Carthage?

    Clash of civilizations.

    Read More
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  4. AP says:

    Once the Putin-Kadyrov “special relationship” breaks down due to political or actuarial factors, a new generation of skinny jeans wearing, organic food court-frequenting Russians will have to reenter political negotiations with a new generation of young, Internet-savvy Chechens who are more into stonings for adultery in the Caucasus Emirate.

    This makes Ukraine’s long-term prospects more positive, in comparison.

    Read More
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  5. Yes, why Carthage…don’t they know what the Romans did with Carthage?

    The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.

    So if women are forbidden from commenting, does that mean it represents about 7% of Chechen men?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Yes, why Carthage…don’t they know what the Romans did with Carthage?
     
    Possibly, but it doesn't matter, the Chechens already went through worse under Stalin.

    Peace.
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  6. But here’s the key difference: The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.

    How do you know there are any Chechens at all among those 55,000? This is the internet, brother. The US establishment media keep informing us of hundreds of thousands of Russian trolls spreading fake news, subversion, and propaganda all over the Wholesome American Web; what’s a lousy 55K accounts compared to that?

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k

    How do you know there are any Chechens at all among those 55,000?
     
    If anyone has the list, it'd be a fun hour or so writing a Python script that could cross chech them against databases of various ethnic names and get a breakdown by actual ethnicity. I suspect quite a lot would actually be Dagsand Ingush which would make it not quite so depressing (would lower the % of the population dramatically).
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  7. Talha says:
    @German_reader
    Yes, why Carthage...don't they know what the Romans did with Carthage?

    The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.
     
    So if women are forbidden from commenting, does that mean it represents about 7% of Chechen men?

    Yes, why Carthage…don’t they know what the Romans did with Carthage?

    Possibly, but it doesn’t matter, the Chechens already went through worse under Stalin.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Carthaginians would have wished to be treated like Chechens.
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  8. iffen says:
    @The Big Red Scary
    >=3.5%. Finally, a base rate estimate for Chechen extremism. You can probably do even better by extrapolating from vk demographics to get a base rate estimate for young Chechen males.

    By the way, I don't go to nightclubs, or even toilets therein, but I'm pretty sure that I saw a Russian couple (potentially) reproducing in a rather muddy pond in dacha country. So maybe even these Carthage guys sometimes make a good point.

    in a rather muddy pond in dacha country

    You can just look at the pictures that AK posts of himself and know that he would never mud-wrestle, even for the best piece of Russian ass ever.

    Read More
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  9. Carthago Delenda Erat.
    Any ideas as to who was the Russian Cato who pulled the plug ?

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  10. Talha says:

    Very interesting. Couple of points…

    1) Vigilantism should never be acceptable. Exceptions to this rule include complete breakdown of law and order due to nuclear war or zombie apocalypse.
    2) Not sure if this is accurate:

    The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.

    If the site is in Russian, plenty of other Muslim ethnics could also be interested in its content – other Caucasian Muslims. I used to visit Kavkaz for years before giving up once it was clear the Chechen resistance had come under the leadership of extremist elements.
    3) If those Chechens in Russia proper have nothing better to do than talk “kuffar this” and “kuffar that”, they should simply leave and go back to Chechnya. The spiritual damage done to one’s soul by living in an environment where they are constantly in a bipolar state of having to reside among people they consider evil is simply not worth it. The good thing is that the Damascene scholars will be opening up a university in Grozny – hopefully this will counter some of the more extreme and ignorant voices in the region (which heretofore was one of our hinterlands without solid connection to the main centers of knowledge):
    “During the meeting the mufti of Chechnya and the head of Syria agreed to open in Grozny branch of the Islamic University.”

    http://rusversion.info/russia/28543-russia-chechnya-syria-assad-is-grateful-for-the-shelters-and-mosques.html

    4)

    Although they don’t promote Chechen independence, that is clearly driven by pragmatic reasons:

    Sure, as are many political arrangements. The entry of Scotland into the United Kingdom was one and people still seem to be thinking that one over, the Netherlands has a complex decentralized government due to two main linguistic/cultural divisions, Czechoslovakia is no more, etc. – all acts of political pragmatism. Why would anyone expect Chechens to think it’s awesome to be part of Russia? Since that area was wrested from the gun-powder Persian empire of the time (Qajars I think), the relationship between the Chechens and Russia have been hostile and fairly tragic for the Chechens (under both the Tsars and Communists). The only exception to this has been the recent Kadyrov-Putin relationship which has worked positively for Chechens materially. If it starts being to their disadvantage, what other possible reason do they have to want to report to Moscow; religious, cultural, linguistic, historic? I mean, the only reason Russia keeps Chechnya is also pragmatic – correct?
    5) I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture? Is that ever used for justification for why Russia can never leave; because the Taliban…er, Chechen fathers…? Or are they more practical in the vein of; well, it’s fine for them if they rule themselves by it in their lands as long as it doesn’t affect me.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @melanf

    I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture?
     
    Definitely not. Russian (absolute majority) indifferent about the fate of Chechen women, and customs of the Chechen society.
    Russian concerned about Islamic terrorism and ethnic and organized crime. Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..
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  11. melanf says:
    @Talha
    Very interesting. Couple of points...

    1) Vigilantism should never be acceptable. Exceptions to this rule include complete breakdown of law and order due to nuclear war or zombie apocalypse.
    2) Not sure if this is accurate:

    The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.
     
    If the site is in Russian, plenty of other Muslim ethnics could also be interested in its content - other Caucasian Muslims. I used to visit Kavkaz for years before giving up once it was clear the Chechen resistance had come under the leadership of extremist elements.
    3) If those Chechens in Russia proper have nothing better to do than talk "kuffar this" and "kuffar that", they should simply leave and go back to Chechnya. The spiritual damage done to one's soul by living in an environment where they are constantly in a bipolar state of having to reside among people they consider evil is simply not worth it. The good thing is that the Damascene scholars will be opening up a university in Grozny - hopefully this will counter some of the more extreme and ignorant voices in the region (which heretofore was one of our hinterlands without solid connection to the main centers of knowledge):
    "During the meeting the mufti of Chechnya and the head of Syria agreed to open in Grozny branch of the Islamic University."
    http://rusversion.info/russia/28543-russia-chechnya-syria-assad-is-grateful-for-the-shelters-and-mosques.html
    4)

    Although they don’t promote Chechen independence, that is clearly driven by pragmatic reasons:
     
    Sure, as are many political arrangements. The entry of Scotland into the United Kingdom was one and people still seem to be thinking that one over, the Netherlands has a complex decentralized government due to two main linguistic/cultural divisions, Czechoslovakia is no more, etc. - all acts of political pragmatism. Why would anyone expect Chechens to think it's awesome to be part of Russia? Since that area was wrested from the gun-powder Persian empire of the time (Qajars I think), the relationship between the Chechens and Russia have been hostile and fairly tragic for the Chechens (under both the Tsars and Communists). The only exception to this has been the recent Kadyrov-Putin relationship which has worked positively for Chechens materially. If it starts being to their disadvantage, what other possible reason do they have to want to report to Moscow; religious, cultural, linguistic, historic? I mean, the only reason Russia keeps Chechnya is also pragmatic - correct?
    5) I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture? Is that ever used for justification for why Russia can never leave; because the Taliban...er, Chechen fathers...? Or are they more practical in the vein of; well, it's fine for them if they rule themselves by it in their lands as long as it doesn't affect me.

    Peace.

    I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture?

    Definitely not. Russian (absolute majority) indifferent about the fate of Chechen women, and customs of the Chechen society.
    Russian concerned about Islamic terrorism and ethnic and organized crime. Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k

    Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..
     
    Might be a bit short sighted. The terrain there is as beautiful as the best of the alps and could really be developed. The Caspian beaches are better than the black sea ones, but can hardly be enjoyed of you're likely to get akbared for wearing a swimsuit. If northeast Caucasian attitudes to the rest of the country reallybare represented by that, then the subsidies start to resemble protection money.

    IMHO, the best thing they could do would be to make islamism related offences punishable by revocation of citizenship and start deporting the most egregious offenders to the middle east, then steadily ratcheting down the criteria. Karyrov has got to the point where him, and his clan, need to just 'disappear' one day and be replaced with technocrats.

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  12. melanf says:

    A football match in Grozny

    View post on imgur.com

    Not so much of Sharia.

    Photo from https://odin-moy-den.livejournal.com/1249721.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @g2k
    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.
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  13. g2k says:

    The really will be a colossal bill to pay when attempts to sweep this under the rug fail. Putin seems to have an apres nous le deluge mentality about the place, being happy that violence levels are low, but ignoring serous social divergence.

    There’s not much chance of this nonsense spreading to the Tartar/Bashkir republics, but a real danger of it infecting the northwest Caucasus, where it’s not currently at a critical level. Chechens dags and Ingush are pretty much a lost cause at this point. About a year ago an NGO documented fgm in Dagestan; hardly surprising since, outside of Africa, Shafi Islam percentage perfectly correlates with fgm prevalence. The really worrying thing about this was that a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi and similar, at the minute, to Turks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey g2k,

    A note; the Shafi'i school condones no such thing as FGM. You can see the details of what the actual fatwa is on here:
    "He [Ramli*] says that it is the removal of some skin from the clitoral prepuce. This is also mentioned by Ibn Hajar in Tuhfah 9/198. In these passages, the word "bazr" is mentioned. Sahib al-Misbah al-Munir mentions that the"bazr" in circumcision is the prepuce. Thus, what is intended is a part of the prepuce surrounding the clitoris and not the clitoris itself."
    http://shafiifiqh.com/question-details.aspx?qstID=173

    It is fairly clear that the procedure is akin to male circumcision (unless people want to also call that MGM). Now if people aren't following the fatwa or making up their own procedures, then that is a medical or a social problem that local governments need to address.

    a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi
     
    As the above resource points out, nobody is going to condemn the procedure. It is acceptable by all schools; the only difference is whether it is considered; a) obligatory, b) recommended or c) merely permissible. Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.

    NGOs are doing themselves no service by claiming all procedures are equivalent. If they insist on taking this route, it will be completely disregarded by Muslims just like White people should disregard stupid claims of "racism" of anything on a spectrum that SJWs don't like.
    “There are many forms of circumcision, broadly grouped as excision and infibulation, distinguished by whether labial edges are fused after the genitalia are incised (Figure 1 and Figure 2). Excision entails cutting or removing part or all of the clitoris with or without the labia minora and majora. Some women have only the clitoral prepuce removed. Infibulation (radical circumcision) is excision accompanied by suturing closed the introitus leaving a small opening for passage of urine and menstrual blood. Local customs dictate the timing and form of circumcision chosen….Infibulation is mainly practiced in the horn of Africa; over 80% of circumcised women in Sudan and Somalia are infibulated. The prevalence of mild forms, such as removal or cutting of the clitoral prepuce (analogous to male circumcision) is unknown, although it has been described in the literature.”
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497147/

    The problem will be that this will not help in curbing the real forms of mutilation that go on. It should simply be insisted that the populations that follow this school reign in excessive or ignorant practices and bring it in line with the procedure "analogous to male circumcision" that the school has been stating for centuries.

    Peace.

    *Note: Imam Khair ud-Din Ramli (ra) was one of those unique souls that had mastered both schools (Hanafi and Shafi'i) and was/is considered an authority in both.
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  14. g2k says:
    @melanf

    I have a question; does Russia suffer (generally speaking) from the white-knight syndrome where they feel like they have to help save these poor Chechen women from their patriarchal, tribal, religious culture?
     
    Definitely not. Russian (absolute majority) indifferent about the fate of Chechen women, and customs of the Chechen society.
    Russian concerned about Islamic terrorism and ethnic and organized crime. Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..

    Excluding these issues, the Russian stand for the full freedom of the Chechen people in the Chechen Republic..

    Might be a bit short sighted. The terrain there is as beautiful as the best of the alps and could really be developed. The Caspian beaches are better than the black sea ones, but can hardly be enjoyed of you’re likely to get akbared for wearing a swimsuit. If northeast Caucasian attitudes to the rest of the country reallybare represented by that, then the subsidies start to resemble protection money.

    IMHO, the best thing they could do would be to make islamism related offences punishable by revocation of citizenship and start deporting the most egregious offenders to the middle east, then steadily ratcheting down the criteria. Karyrov has got to the point where him, and his clan, need to just ‘disappear’ one day and be replaced with technocrats.

    Read More
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  15. g2k says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    But here’s the key difference: The 55,000 membership of Carthage on Vkontakte at the time of its closure represents 3.5% of all the Chechens in Russia.
     
    How do you know there are any Chechens at all among those 55,000? This is the internet, brother. The US establishment media keep informing us of hundreds of thousands of Russian trolls spreading fake news, subversion, and propaganda all over the Wholesome American Web; what's a lousy 55K accounts compared to that?

    How do you know there are any Chechens at all among those 55,000?

    If anyone has the list, it’d be a fun hour or so writing a Python script that could cross chech them against databases of various ethnic names and get a breakdown by actual ethnicity. I suspect quite a lot would actually be Dagsand Ingush which would make it not quite so depressing (would lower the % of the population dramatically).

    Read More
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  16. Nautilus says:

    I’ve never bought “Le Based Russia” meme. Russia has more problematic demographics than even a major West European country like the UK has. The ethnic population seems just as disinterested/disempowered in ethno-nationalism as the Brits seem(muh civic nationalism does *not* count).

    The Meduza website is very interesting. The article on chechens in Berlin was golden. So basically all the guys go to nightclubs to pick up cheap and easy German women while they keep their own back home. The same old story/script we’ve seen over the last 40 years. It works as long as they are in a minority, but if the muslim population reached 15-20% of Berlin, or even higher for the under 35 crowd, things will start to change.

    Overall, it seems to me that the best countries in Europe right now are in the CEE region. The Nordic countries, except Sweden, also do okayish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    Overall, it seems to me that the best countries in Europe right now are in the CEE region.
     
    With emphasis on "right now". They are less sovereign than either West Europe or Russia.
    They won't get away.
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  17. g2k says:
    @melanf
    A football match in Grozny

    https://imgur.com/a/PrbbF

    Not so much of Sharia.

    Photo from https://odin-moy-den.livejournal.com/1249721.html

    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @melanf

    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.
     
    Grozny 2017 (from https://www.tourister.ru/responses/id_19313 )

    https://imgur.com/a/fdtWU

    From a relatively prosperous and peaceful life "things are worse since then"?
    Maybe, but it seems weird to me
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  18. Talha says:
    @g2k
    The really will be a colossal bill to pay when attempts to sweep this under the rug fail. Putin seems to have an apres nous le deluge mentality about the place, being happy that violence levels are low, but ignoring serous social divergence.

    There's not much chance of this nonsense spreading to the Tartar/Bashkir republics, but a real danger of it infecting the northwest Caucasus, where it's not currently at a critical level. Chechens dags and Ingush are pretty much a lost cause at this point. About a year ago an NGO documented fgm in Dagestan; hardly surprising since, outside of Africa, Shafi Islam percentage perfectly correlates with fgm prevalence. The really worrying thing about this was that a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi and similar, at the minute, to Turks.

    Hey g2k,

    A note; the Shafi’i school condones no such thing as FGM. You can see the details of what the actual fatwa is on here:
    “He [Ramli*] says that it is the removal of some skin from the clitoral prepuce. This is also mentioned by Ibn Hajar in Tuhfah 9/198. In these passages, the word “bazr” is mentioned. Sahib al-Misbah al-Munir mentions that the”bazr” in circumcision is the prepuce. Thus, what is intended is a part of the prepuce surrounding the clitoris and not the clitoris itself.”

    http://shafiifiqh.com/question-details.aspx?qstID=173

    It is fairly clear that the procedure is akin to male circumcision (unless people want to also call that MGM). Now if people aren’t following the fatwa or making up their own procedures, then that is a medical or a social problem that local governments need to address.

    a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi

    As the above resource points out, nobody is going to condemn the procedure. It is acceptable by all schools; the only difference is whether it is considered; a) obligatory, b) recommended or c) merely permissible. Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.

    NGOs are doing themselves no service by claiming all procedures are equivalent. If they insist on taking this route, it will be completely disregarded by Muslims just like White people should disregard stupid claims of “racism” of anything on a spectrum that SJWs don’t like.
    “There are many forms of circumcision, broadly grouped as excision and infibulation, distinguished by whether labial edges are fused after the genitalia are incised (Figure 1 and Figure 2). Excision entails cutting or removing part or all of the clitoris with or without the labia minora and majora. Some women have only the clitoral prepuce removed. Infibulation (radical circumcision) is excision accompanied by suturing closed the introitus leaving a small opening for passage of urine and menstrual blood. Local customs dictate the timing and form of circumcision chosen….Infibulation is mainly practiced in the horn of Africa; over 80% of circumcised women in Sudan and Somalia are infibulated. The prevalence of mild forms, such as removal or cutting of the clitoral prepuce (analogous to male circumcision) is unknown, although it has been described in the literature.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497147/

    The problem will be that this will not help in curbing the real forms of mutilation that go on. It should simply be insisted that the populations that follow this school reign in excessive or ignorant practices and bring it in line with the procedure “analogous to male circumcision” that the school has been stating for centuries.

    Peace.

    *Note: Imam Khair ud-Din Ramli (ra) was one of those unique souls that had mastered both schools (Hanafi and Shafi’i) and was/is considered an authority in both.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Hector_St_Clare
    Talha,

    Malaysia and Kerala, among other places, are also Shafi (according to wiki, at least). I've seen a bunch of accounts by Malaysian women online that suggest that a kind of superficial / nominal FGM is common there, which technically complies with the Shafi jurisprudence but doesn't affect health or sexual function. A friend of mine lived in Indonesia (also Shafi) and he says the 'little nick' form of 'technical' FGM is common there also.

    In other Shafi countries like Yemen and Somalia, I guess one sees FGM in all its full and horrible glory.
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  19. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “perhaps telling of the Russian state’s priorities that it took longer for Roskomnadzor to catch onto them than it did for it to illegally block the moderate Russian nationalist website Sputnik i Pogrom.”

    Yea they were quicker taking down a popular far right website thats been on the web for almost a decade, featured politically prominent writers, and got a +million visits a month than they were taking down some guys facebook page.

    Whats telling is that it was media hot air from an American Jew that got the page shut down. Reminds me of listening to jewish nationalist radio shows like John Batchelor show where they shiver that Moslems are going to take over the Russian army any year now. Or Obama at a UN press conference gloating how “10 million moslems in Russia” are going to cause trouble for Russia for backing Syrias Baath.

    It doesnt occur to you that vk members can just as well be admin added spam like most users on Russian social media websites. Most of the hundred of thousands of people who follow Navalny and other Russian right-liberals on twitter are shown as fake on audit websites. If Russian online activity had any relation to the real world PARNAS would be the countries top party. It gets 1% of the vote nationally.

    And like most of the anglo right wing you project a fake illiberalism. You attack Russias youth as “liberal” with homosexual jeans and bicycles and then attack “Chechens” for….illiberalism. Well which is it? Oh a small ethnic group has a “1.8% interethnic marriage rates” how…normal. The cave man disapproval of interrace marriage that a majority of American had until 1995. Its 2017! (And ironically it was defeat of the left (who you despise) in Russia that created increased religiosity (return of headscarves that real leftists hate and so on). Of course like a liberal you would dismiss this as “soviet police state coercion” and todays capitalism as mans human nature, as if all human societies, especially the atomized liberal ones, arent based on “coercion” and socialization)

    And this is really why Sputnik and Pogrom (and others) got pogromed. The Russian army fought two wars to keep Chechnya in Russia. They are not going to allow punks to give away their land. If one walks around Moscow all the signs are in english, a language that 90% of the population dont speak and the other 10% barely. Yet Russian “nationalists” are more passionate and anxious about some ethnic group that makes up barely 1% of the population than they are about the French and the Germans. Its just deference to a superior force and contempt for those weaker. Some nationalism.

    Read More
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  20. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Talha

    Yes, why Carthage…don’t they know what the Romans did with Carthage?
     
    Possibly, but it doesn't matter, the Chechens already went through worse under Stalin.

    Peace.

    Carthaginians would have wished to be treated like Chechens.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Yeah perhaps you are right there. I have to admit - Carthage was pulverized completely.

    Stalin of course carted off the Chechens to Siberia, but they were able to come back - stronger than before actually, since all the weaker ones died off.

    Peace.
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  21. g2k says:

    M

    Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.

    I’m well aware that hanifis and shias generally don’t do this, except those in mixed areas a high number of Shafis (northern Egypt, northern Iraq etc). The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag’s) generally do. For a country that smarts under the “Nigeria with snow” slight, it’s another nail in that coffin.

    You can describe all you like about how this should be done “correctly” (sounds a bit like commies describing “true” communism), but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi, religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this. Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes.

    P.S. Karachai that was meant to be, the people from one of the ethnic republics in Russia, not the city in Pakistan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey g2k,

    The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag’s) generally do.
     
    And will continue to do so.

    but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi
     
    Yup.

    I think I wasn't making my point clear. My point is not that through some magical formula, Muslims adhering to the Shafi'i school for centuries are going to stop female circumcision. They are not, nor are they likely going to listen to it when people call it FGM. My point is that by lumping in a relatively mild practice like female circumcision with all the other egregious nonsense that goes on like complete removal of clitoris or sealing shut the vaginal canal, etc. - one does not do anything helpful to remedy the situation and in fact makes it worse.

    If you want the nonsense to stop, then demand that they start acting like Muslims and actually follow the rules they are supposed to instead of making up stupid rules on their own.

    religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this
     
    They are, I just quoted you their verdict based upon the words of strong Shafi'i school authorities like Imam Ibn Hajar Haytami (ra) - feel free to point them out as incorrect (here is his 9 volume commentary on Imam Nawawi's original work "Minhaj at-Talibin"):
    https://archive.org/details/TuhfatalMuhtajSharhalMinhaj

    Are you saying you've seen fatwas that FGM (as opposed female circumcision), like some of the bizarre practices (infibulation, etc.) that are culturally prevalent, is actually sanctioned by the Shariah? I'd love to see the sources. If anything, I have seen fatwas against FGM:
    "Initiated by TARGET, a German human rights organisation, and held under the auspices of the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Professor Ali Gom’a, Muslim scholars from all over the world came together to discuss the practice of FGM with scientists. They passed the resolution, with all the weight of a fatwa, that FGM was to be considered a punishable offence, as an act of aggression, and a crime against humanity. In other parts of Africa, too, religious leaders have spoken out publicly against FGM and are continuing to do so."
    https://www.giz.de/fachexpertise/downloads/giz2011-en-fgm-islam.pdf

    Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes
     
    That's not the problem I had - the problem is when people just lump stuff all together as if there are no gradations. Like calling Charles Murray a Nazi or something silly like that. When people do that, those on the receiving end of the criticism are likely going to ignore you and anything you have to say.

    Karachai
     
    Ah OK - I assumed the other due to the original spelling you typed.

    peace.
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  22. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Nautilus
    I've never bought "Le Based Russia" meme. Russia has more problematic demographics than even a major West European country like the UK has. The ethnic population seems just as disinterested/disempowered in ethno-nationalism as the Brits seem(muh civic nationalism does *not* count).

    The Meduza website is very interesting. The article on chechens in Berlin was golden. So basically all the guys go to nightclubs to pick up cheap and easy German women while they keep their own back home. The same old story/script we've seen over the last 40 years. It works as long as they are in a minority, but if the muslim population reached 15-20% of Berlin, or even higher for the under 35 crowd, things will start to change.

    Overall, it seems to me that the best countries in Europe right now are in the CEE region. The Nordic countries, except Sweden, also do okayish.

    Overall, it seems to me that the best countries in Europe right now are in the CEE region.

    With emphasis on “right now”. They are less sovereign than either West Europe or Russia.
    They won’t get away.

    Read More
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  23. Talha says:
    @Anon
    Carthaginians would have wished to be treated like Chechens.

    Yeah perhaps you are right there. I have to admit – Carthage was pulverized completely.

    Stalin of course carted off the Chechens to Siberia, but they were able to come back – stronger than before actually, since all the weaker ones died off.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniil Adamov
    Carthage was destroyed (and then rebuilt), but Carthaginians weren't. Punic language endured in North Africa for quite a while afterwards. I suppose no one thought to salt the land around Grozny, though.
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  24. melanf says:
    @g2k
    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.

    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.

    Grozny 2017 (from https://www.tourister.ru/responses/id_19313 )

    View post on imgur.com

    From a relatively prosperous and peaceful life “things are worse since then”?
    Maybe, but it seems weird to me

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniil Adamov
    It is fairly prosperous and peaceful of course. This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation - which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia. It's still nasty enough on its own, with its heightened tolerance for Islamic vigilantism and aggressive contempt for human rights for the wrong sorts of humans. Doubtless this affects different groups and places within Chechnya to a different degree, same as in any other place on Earth.
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  25. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Don’t be such a coward. If you believe a disaster is impending because Chechnya says in union with Russia then come out and say it will be better for Russia to discard the NCFD.

    New nationalism all the way.

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  26. Talha says:
    @g2k
    M

    Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.
     
    I'm well aware that hanifis and shias generally don't do this, except those in mixed areas a high number of Shafis (northern Egypt, northern Iraq etc). The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag's) generally do. For a country that smarts under the "Nigeria with snow" slight, it's another nail in that coffin.

    You can describe all you like about how this should be done "correctly" (sounds a bit like commies describing "true" communism), but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi, religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this. Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes.

    P.S. Karachai that was meant to be, the people from one of the ethnic republics in Russia, not the city in Pakistan.

    Hey g2k,

    The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag’s) generally do.

    And will continue to do so.

    but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi

    Yup.

    I think I wasn’t making my point clear. My point is not that through some magical formula, Muslims adhering to the Shafi’i school for centuries are going to stop female circumcision. They are not, nor are they likely going to listen to it when people call it FGM. My point is that by lumping in a relatively mild practice like female circumcision with all the other egregious nonsense that goes on like complete removal of clitoris or sealing shut the vaginal canal, etc. – one does not do anything helpful to remedy the situation and in fact makes it worse.

    If you want the nonsense to stop, then demand that they start acting like Muslims and actually follow the rules they are supposed to instead of making up stupid rules on their own.

    religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this

    They are, I just quoted you their verdict based upon the words of strong Shafi’i school authorities like Imam Ibn Hajar Haytami (ra) – feel free to point them out as incorrect (here is his 9 volume commentary on Imam Nawawi’s original work “Minhaj at-Talibin”):

    https://archive.org/details/TuhfatalMuhtajSharhalMinhaj

    Are you saying you’ve seen fatwas that FGM (as opposed female circumcision), like some of the bizarre practices (infibulation, etc.) that are culturally prevalent, is actually sanctioned by the Shariah? I’d love to see the sources. If anything, I have seen fatwas against FGM:
    “Initiated by TARGET, a German human rights organisation, and held under the auspices of the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Professor Ali Gom’a, Muslim scholars from all over the world came together to discuss the practice of FGM with scientists. They passed the resolution, with all the weight of a fatwa, that FGM was to be considered a punishable offence, as an act of aggression, and a crime against humanity. In other parts of Africa, too, religious leaders have spoken out publicly against FGM and are continuing to do so.”

    https://www.giz.de/fachexpertise/downloads/giz2011-en-fgm-islam.pdf

    Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes

    That’s not the problem I had – the problem is when people just lump stuff all together as if there are no gradations. Like calling Charles Murray a Nazi or something silly like that. When people do that, those on the receiving end of the criticism are likely going to ignore you and anything you have to say.

    Karachai

    Ah OK – I assumed the other due to the original spelling you typed.

    peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    • LOL: Talha

    Be careful, Nordic princesses can be suspicious at times and “accidently” take a look at their mate’s communications.
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  27. @melanf

    Date: 2013. Things are worse since then.
     
    Grozny 2017 (from https://www.tourister.ru/responses/id_19313 )

    https://imgur.com/a/fdtWU

    From a relatively prosperous and peaceful life "things are worse since then"?
    Maybe, but it seems weird to me

    It is fairly prosperous and peaceful of course. This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation – which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia. It’s still nasty enough on its own, with its heightened tolerance for Islamic vigilantism and aggressive contempt for human rights for the wrong sorts of humans. Doubtless this affects different groups and places within Chechnya to a different degree, same as in any other place on Earth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @melanf

    This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation – which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia.
     
    That is Chechnya is more Islamist today than in 2000? What is the evidence of this statement?
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  28. @Talha
    Yeah perhaps you are right there. I have to admit - Carthage was pulverized completely.

    Stalin of course carted off the Chechens to Siberia, but they were able to come back - stronger than before actually, since all the weaker ones died off.

    Peace.

    Carthage was destroyed (and then rebuilt), but Carthaginians weren’t. Punic language endured in North Africa for quite a while afterwards. I suppose no one thought to salt the land around Grozny, though.

    Read More
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  29. Women were forbidden from commenting.

    Please let me be reincarnated as a Chechen.

    Read More
    • LOL: Talha
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  30. iffen says:
    @Talha
    Hey g2k,

    The problem, is that Shafis (Chechens, Ingush and most Dag’s) generally do.
     
    And will continue to do so.

    but the communities that practice this, and the, almost always Shafi
     
    Yup.

    I think I wasn't making my point clear. My point is not that through some magical formula, Muslims adhering to the Shafi'i school for centuries are going to stop female circumcision. They are not, nor are they likely going to listen to it when people call it FGM. My point is that by lumping in a relatively mild practice like female circumcision with all the other egregious nonsense that goes on like complete removal of clitoris or sealing shut the vaginal canal, etc. - one does not do anything helpful to remedy the situation and in fact makes it worse.

    If you want the nonsense to stop, then demand that they start acting like Muslims and actually follow the rules they are supposed to instead of making up stupid rules on their own.

    religious leaders that promote it are very clear about the method and purpose of this
     
    They are, I just quoted you their verdict based upon the words of strong Shafi'i school authorities like Imam Ibn Hajar Haytami (ra) - feel free to point them out as incorrect (here is his 9 volume commentary on Imam Nawawi's original work "Minhaj at-Talibin"):
    https://archive.org/details/TuhfatalMuhtajSharhalMinhaj

    Are you saying you've seen fatwas that FGM (as opposed female circumcision), like some of the bizarre practices (infibulation, etc.) that are culturally prevalent, is actually sanctioned by the Shariah? I'd love to see the sources. If anything, I have seen fatwas against FGM:
    "Initiated by TARGET, a German human rights organisation, and held under the auspices of the Grand Mufti of Egypt, Professor Ali Gom’a, Muslim scholars from all over the world came together to discuss the practice of FGM with scientists. They passed the resolution, with all the weight of a fatwa, that FGM was to be considered a punishable offence, as an act of aggression, and a crime against humanity. In other parts of Africa, too, religious leaders have spoken out publicly against FGM and are continuing to do so."
    https://www.giz.de/fachexpertise/downloads/giz2011-en-fgm-islam.pdf

    Its hardly sjwism to object to it going on in your country in a region subsidised by your taxes
     
    That's not the problem I had - the problem is when people just lump stuff all together as if there are no gradations. Like calling Charles Murray a Nazi or something silly like that. When people do that, those on the receiving end of the criticism are likely going to ignore you and anything you have to say.

    Karachai
     
    Ah OK - I assumed the other due to the original spelling you typed.

    peace.

    • LOL: Talha

    Be careful, Nordic princesses can be suspicious at times and “accidently” take a look at their mate’s communications.

    Read More
    • LOL: Talha
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  31. @Talha
    Hey g2k,

    A note; the Shafi'i school condones no such thing as FGM. You can see the details of what the actual fatwa is on here:
    "He [Ramli*] says that it is the removal of some skin from the clitoral prepuce. This is also mentioned by Ibn Hajar in Tuhfah 9/198. In these passages, the word "bazr" is mentioned. Sahib al-Misbah al-Munir mentions that the"bazr" in circumcision is the prepuce. Thus, what is intended is a part of the prepuce surrounding the clitoris and not the clitoris itself."
    http://shafiifiqh.com/question-details.aspx?qstID=173

    It is fairly clear that the procedure is akin to male circumcision (unless people want to also call that MGM). Now if people aren't following the fatwa or making up their own procedures, then that is a medical or a social problem that local governments need to address.

    a Karachi imam started condoning it. Those guys are Hanifi
     
    As the above resource points out, nobody is going to condemn the procedure. It is acceptable by all schools; the only difference is whether it is considered; a) obligatory, b) recommended or c) merely permissible. Having lived in Pakistan before and around devout Muslims from South Asia (mostly Hanafi) much of my life, I have not heard of a single family considering this procedure for their daughters.

    NGOs are doing themselves no service by claiming all procedures are equivalent. If they insist on taking this route, it will be completely disregarded by Muslims just like White people should disregard stupid claims of "racism" of anything on a spectrum that SJWs don't like.
    “There are many forms of circumcision, broadly grouped as excision and infibulation, distinguished by whether labial edges are fused after the genitalia are incised (Figure 1 and Figure 2). Excision entails cutting or removing part or all of the clitoris with or without the labia minora and majora. Some women have only the clitoral prepuce removed. Infibulation (radical circumcision) is excision accompanied by suturing closed the introitus leaving a small opening for passage of urine and menstrual blood. Local customs dictate the timing and form of circumcision chosen….Infibulation is mainly practiced in the horn of Africa; over 80% of circumcised women in Sudan and Somalia are infibulated. The prevalence of mild forms, such as removal or cutting of the clitoral prepuce (analogous to male circumcision) is unknown, although it has been described in the literature.”
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1497147/

    The problem will be that this will not help in curbing the real forms of mutilation that go on. It should simply be insisted that the populations that follow this school reign in excessive or ignorant practices and bring it in line with the procedure "analogous to male circumcision" that the school has been stating for centuries.

    Peace.

    *Note: Imam Khair ud-Din Ramli (ra) was one of those unique souls that had mastered both schools (Hanafi and Shafi'i) and was/is considered an authority in both.

    Talha,

    Malaysia and Kerala, among other places, are also Shafi (according to wiki, at least). I’ve seen a bunch of accounts by Malaysian women online that suggest that a kind of superficial / nominal FGM is common there, which technically complies with the Shafi jurisprudence but doesn’t affect health or sexual function. A friend of mine lived in Indonesia (also Shafi) and he says the ‘little nick’ form of ‘technical’ FGM is common there also.

    In other Shafi countries like Yemen and Somalia, I guess one sees FGM in all its full and horrible glory.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Hector,

    superficial / nominal FGM... ‘little nick’ form of ‘technical’ FGM
     
    I'm fine using that term if people are consistent with it. For instance, nothing happened to my daughter, but all three of my boys had their genitals mutilated by licensed pediatricians in the US. One was a Filipino male and the other two were White females. Neither of them balked at the request and had quite a bit of mutilation experience under their belts.

    Furthermore, it seems many females in the West are lining up to pay good money to have their genitals mutilated by licensed surgeons:
    “The World Health Organisation (WHO) defines FGM as 'all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.' The label ‘FGM’ applies to a variety of procedures, which are more numerous and varied than most people might imagine…'I find it very difficult to see the difference between Female Genital Mutilation and Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery. Is there a difference?', she asked. She went on to note that in 30 per cent of cases, patients undergoing Female Genital Cosmetic surgery will suffer painful complications, many of which are similar to those suffered by victims of FGM. In order to get around the 'non-medical' clause in the WHO definition of FGM, cosmetic surgeons justify FGCS on the basis that the young women seeking the surgery will suffer psychological distress due to a perception of abnormality. However, the majority of young women seeking this surgery have perfectly normal, healthy labias.
    https://www.varsity.co.uk/comment/7694

    Now this doctor says that paying him to mutilate your genitals in a similar procedure to what the Shafi'is describe (reduction of clitoral hood [prepuce]) actually increases stimulation:
    "Will this reduce clitoral sensation?

    Absolutely not. In fact, clitoral hood reduction actually increases stimulation due to reducing the barrier of tissue that can decrease sensation. The clitoris and the nerves surrounding it are not touched during the procedure."
    https://www.davidghozland.com/cosmetic-procedures/clitoral-hood-reduction/

    Peace.
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  32. melanf says:
    @Daniil Adamov
    It is fairly prosperous and peaceful of course. This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation - which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia. It's still nasty enough on its own, with its heightened tolerance for Islamic vigilantism and aggressive contempt for human rights for the wrong sorts of humans. Doubtless this affects different groups and places within Chechnya to a different degree, same as in any other place on Earth.

    This does not in any way contradict the widely observed trend of progressive Islamisation, or Shariafication, or whatever you call it in Chechnya. From year to year it becomes more and more of an Islamist reservation – which is not to say that it has or is about to turn into Saudi Arabia.

    That is Chechnya is more Islamist today than in 2000? What is the evidence of this statement?

    Read More
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  33. Silva says:

    Does anyone know whether the Ingush still feel any “Vainakh solidarity” towards Chechens, or whether the latter want anything besides to dominate the former?

    Talha: the West-European country split in 2 is Belgium (Dutch and French halves).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Silva,

    Thanks for the correction. Honestly, I'm always mixing up those two countries. Glad I didn't say something silly about the Netherlands exploiting the Congo or something.

    Peace.
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  34. Talha says:
    @Silva
    Does anyone know whether the Ingush still feel any "Vainakh solidarity" towards Chechens, or whether the latter want anything besides to dominate the former?

    Talha: the West-European country split in 2 is Belgium (Dutch and French halves).

    Hey Silva,

    Thanks for the correction. Honestly, I’m always mixing up those two countries. Glad I didn’t say something silly about the Netherlands exploiting the Congo or something.

    Peace.

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  35. Talha says:
    @Hector_St_Clare
    Talha,

    Malaysia and Kerala, among other places, are also Shafi (according to wiki, at least). I've seen a bunch of accounts by Malaysian women online that suggest that a kind of superficial / nominal FGM is common there, which technically complies with the Shafi jurisprudence but doesn't affect health or sexual function. A friend of mine lived in Indonesia (also Shafi) and he says the 'little nick' form of 'technical' FGM is common there also.

    In other Shafi countries like Yemen and Somalia, I guess one sees FGM in all its full and horrible glory.

    Hey Hector,

    superficial / nominal FGM… ‘little nick’ form of ‘technical’ FGM

    I’m fine using that term if people are consistent with it. For instance, nothing happened to my daughter, but all three of my boys had their genitals mutilated by licensed pediatricians in the US. One was a Filipino male and the other two were White females. Neither of them balked at the request and had quite a bit of mutilation experience under their belts.

    Furthermore, it seems many females in the West are lining up to pay good money to have their genitals mutilated by licensed surgeons:
    “The World Health Organisation (WHO) defines FGM as ‘all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.’ The label ‘FGM’ applies to a variety of procedures, which are more numerous and varied than most people might imagine…’I find it very difficult to see the difference between Female Genital Mutilation and Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery. Is there a difference?‘, she asked. She went on to note that in 30 per cent of cases, patients undergoing Female Genital Cosmetic surgery will suffer painful complications, many of which are similar to those suffered by victims of FGM. In order to get around the ‘non-medical’ clause in the WHO definition of FGM, cosmetic surgeons justify FGCS on the basis that the young women seeking the surgery will suffer psychological distress due to a perception of abnormality. However, the majority of young women seeking this surgery have perfectly normal, healthy labias.

    https://www.varsity.co.uk/comment/7694

    Now this doctor says that paying him to mutilate your genitals in a similar procedure to what the Shafi’is describe (reduction of clitoral hood [prepuce]) actually increases stimulation:
    “Will this reduce clitoral sensation?

    Absolutely not. In fact, clitoral hood reduction actually increases stimulation due to reducing the barrier of tissue that can decrease sensation. The clitoris and the nerves surrounding it are not touched during the procedure.”

    https://www.davidghozland.com/cosmetic-procedures/clitoral-hood-reduction/

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    But I will certainly agree that some of the stuff that transpires in the more uneducated, rural or tribal areas of places like Somalia, Upper Egypt, etc. can quite accurately be described as mutilation and should be stopped by being called out by the ulema as well as interdiction by civil authorities.
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  36. Talha says:
    @Talha
    Hey Hector,

    superficial / nominal FGM... ‘little nick’ form of ‘technical’ FGM
     
    I'm fine using that term if people are consistent with it. For instance, nothing happened to my daughter, but all three of my boys had their genitals mutilated by licensed pediatricians in the US. One was a Filipino male and the other two were White females. Neither of them balked at the request and had quite a bit of mutilation experience under their belts.

    Furthermore, it seems many females in the West are lining up to pay good money to have their genitals mutilated by licensed surgeons:
    “The World Health Organisation (WHO) defines FGM as 'all procedures that involve partial or total removal of the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.' The label ‘FGM’ applies to a variety of procedures, which are more numerous and varied than most people might imagine…'I find it very difficult to see the difference between Female Genital Mutilation and Female Genital Cosmetic Surgery. Is there a difference?', she asked. She went on to note that in 30 per cent of cases, patients undergoing Female Genital Cosmetic surgery will suffer painful complications, many of which are similar to those suffered by victims of FGM. In order to get around the 'non-medical' clause in the WHO definition of FGM, cosmetic surgeons justify FGCS on the basis that the young women seeking the surgery will suffer psychological distress due to a perception of abnormality. However, the majority of young women seeking this surgery have perfectly normal, healthy labias.
    https://www.varsity.co.uk/comment/7694

    Now this doctor says that paying him to mutilate your genitals in a similar procedure to what the Shafi'is describe (reduction of clitoral hood [prepuce]) actually increases stimulation:
    "Will this reduce clitoral sensation?

    Absolutely not. In fact, clitoral hood reduction actually increases stimulation due to reducing the barrier of tissue that can decrease sensation. The clitoris and the nerves surrounding it are not touched during the procedure."
    https://www.davidghozland.com/cosmetic-procedures/clitoral-hood-reduction/

    Peace.

    But I will certainly agree that some of the stuff that transpires in the more uneducated, rural or tribal areas of places like Somalia, Upper Egypt, etc. can quite accurately be described as mutilation and should be stopped by being called out by the ulema as well as interdiction by civil authorities.

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  37. All Interent sites everywhere seem to have about a 10-1 overinflation of user, member, etc. count. That’s excepting such obvious affected-by-spam sites that have higher numbers, and extremely small communities (100 persons or less). Being even a somewhat larger site and not having this property is often a very strong signal of quality and strong community management (I suspect that is not true for this particular case here)

    It’s an interesting sort of law, because there is no clear general reason for it. Maybe the behavior of people is consistent enough across cultures and times that not just the proportion of humans who would be active users on a site but things like creating sockpuppets results in the same ratios about everywhere. Conversely the number of legitimate humans who add to the count by signing up one time but then disappearing or being permanently inactive might be somehow stable.

    It could also be top-down, which could easily be explained by a few marketing and business programs promoting the same drivel, at the largest organizations first, in that 10-1 just sounds like a good limit to safely inflate to without suspicion. That doesn’t cut across cultures fully though. Plausibly, this could also just happen to be around what human curation against a much vaster and unseen to end users sea of bot traffic and spam is able to cut numbers to, going the other way. These factors would just happen to line up.

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  38. danvolodar says: • Website

    So wait just a moment, Chechens want to stone Chechen girls in Chechnya for being immodest or whatever other bullshit they can imagine. Why should that concern us Russians? What’s the problem with that?

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    • Replies: @notanon
    none if that is all it is

    if it's the first sign of jihadism taking root (inspired by Saudi funded Wahabbi mosques and preachers) then it means endless jihad incoming
    , @iffen
    Why should that concern us Russians? What’s the problem with that?

    Probably not a problem at all unless you like to go to the theater and enjoy a play every now and then.
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  39. notanon says:
    @danvolodar
    So wait just a moment, Chechens want to stone Chechen girls in Chechnya for being immodest or whatever other bullshit they can imagine. Why should that concern us Russians? What's the problem with that?

    none if that is all it is

    if it’s the first sign of jihadism taking root (inspired by Saudi funded Wahabbi mosques and preachers) then it means endless jihad incoming

    Read More
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  40. iffen says:
    @danvolodar
    So wait just a moment, Chechens want to stone Chechen girls in Chechnya for being immodest or whatever other bullshit they can imagine. Why should that concern us Russians? What's the problem with that?

    Why should that concern us Russians? What’s the problem with that?

    Probably not a problem at all unless you like to go to the theater and enjoy a play every now and then.

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  41. @Daniil Adamov
    ...but why Carthage?

    Rome Vs. Carthage. The Punic Wars.

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  42. Chechens are Muslims. Islam is a Christian heresy.

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  43. Russia must convert heretics like the Chechens or expel them from Russia.

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