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Is Bolsonaro an American Stooge?
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Here are some basic things worth bearing in amidst the various powerful takes floating around.

Campaign rhetoric is one thing – the reality of navigating international geopolitics is another. It is worth noting that while Americanophilia started off high at the start of many Brazilian right-wing administrations, it never consistently stayed high – not even under the junta, which gradually floated back to neutrality (and which apparently gets a much worse rap than it deserves). Our Brazilian commenter Alin has much to say about this (his comment is reprinted below).

With no ensuing freebies from the Americans – Trump isn’t exactly the giving type – Bolsonaro’s Brazil can be expected to drift back into the BRICS multilateralism framework.

One possible model for future developments would be the evolution of US-Indian relations since the ascent of Modi, which started off with WaPo describing it as a “partnership for the 21st century” to Trump threatening sanctions for buying Russian S-400′s.

Talk of Bolsonaro being a Wall Street stooge, or a CIA asset, or whatever, is complete leftist nonsense. Brazil might not be the most K-selected country, but with the world’s third largest population of white people after the US and Russia, it’s hardly a banana republic either. It produces more vehicles than France, has a strong indigenous financial sector, and a successful aerospace industry (Embraer). It’s not the sort of place where the US can just sweep in and buy up the elites en masse. And as Duterte shows, even CIA assets in countries much closer to banana republic level have a habit of going maverick.

Bolsonaro was elected not because of a CIA/Russian plot, but because of Brazilian domestic affairs, such as economic mismanagement, crime, and weariness with corruption.

Bolsonaro’s economic program involving moderate privatization, a 20% flat tax, and pensions reform (pensions are expected to consume the entire Brazilian budget by 2022-24 if nothing is done) seems to be in line with what Brazil’s over regulated economy needs (125/190 on World Bank’s Ease of Doing Business ranking).

The tough on crime and gun freedoms policy must be appreciated in the context of a crime situation that is out of control thanks to SJW activists (e.g. “If you are underage, no matter the crime you commit, you only go to a rehabilitation center until you’re 18 and then you’re set free WITH A CLEAN RECORD. We have plenty of cases of drug dealers of 17 years and 364 days of age killing, say, girlfriends they suspected of cheating them, then walking scot free, with a clean record, the very next day.“)

While Bolsonaro formally remains a Catholic, he is associated with and associates with evangelicals. This is something that doesn’t sit well with many people, the more so since it is usually associated with Israel worship (and indeed, he has said that Palestine isn’t a country and wants to move the Embassy to Jerusalem). However, as Lance Welton writes at VDARE, pentecostalism has developed deep and genuine roots in Brazil in the past half century. This is not some marginal American import (such as the Baptism of former Ukrainian interim President Turchynov in 2014). However, as another Brazilian commenter Dumbo points out, it is Catholicism that screwed up by embracing liberation theology in the 1970s-80s, with the result that the poor embraced socially conservative evangelicalism instead.

So in short I don’t buy into the doom-mongering going on amongst some lefty anti-imperialists over how Brazil has become an American colony or whatever.

***

Alin on Bolsonaro’s FP:

On Bolsonaro’s pro-Americanism, the issue is quite complex. Let me again type a loooong comment on this.

(1) Brazil traditionally had excellent relations with the United States from independence to the mid-20th century. American historian Bradford Burns named his book about it “The Unwritten Alliance”. Just to exemplify, since I guess these are facts few people know: (a) Secretary of State Seward asked the Brazilian Emperor to offer his mediation between the federal government and the seceding states in 1861, just before Fort Sumter. Emperor Pedro II wisely declined [Brazil was an Empire under the House of Braganza-Hapsburg, 1822-1889]; (b) the first ever visit abroad of a sitting American Secretary of State was that of Elihu Root to Rio de Janeiro in 1903; (c) Brazil entered both world wars in support of the U.S. In WWII, we sent 30,000 men to the Italian front, and would have sent 150,000 if the war hadn’t ended too soon; (d) the original configuration of the United Nations Security Council, as prepared by President Roosevelt, had Brazil as a permanent member. It came to nought because of Soviet strong opposition to the idea, British milder opposition and, above all, Roosevelt’s death before the issue was decided.

(2) All this meant that Brazil had very high expectations about how the relationship would be after victory in WWII. We imagined it would go on as before, with America as our friend and interested in our affairs, supporting our development plans. Of course, by now the U.S. was a world empire and Latin America just one region of the world, far from the stratetic hotspots, and home to no credible threat to America. When the Marshall Plan was implemented, Brazil expected to receive something like it as well – and, of course, didn’t.

(3) During the Cold War, as expected, the Brazilian right was pro-American and the left pro-Soviet, so the net result was a tendency towards a neutralism slightly tilted towards the US. But the Brazilian right continued to pine after the “lost good years” of close relationship with America and hope it could be restored. Of course, it was disappointed every time. When the military took over in 1964, they turned Brazil strongly towards the U.S. Hopes dashed, they turned again toward neutralism after 1967, even more strongly after 1974. After democracy returned in 1985, again we hoped for stronger American support (those were the years of the Latin American external debt crisis), and again this didn’t come. When a mild programme of liberalization was implemented in the 1990s, new hopes, again dashed. When Brazil then suffered a currency crisis and needed an IMF bailout (January 1999), the US was unconcerned, just a few months after strongly intervening to bailout Yeltsin’s Russia. (I remember reading a newspaper account that the Brazilian negotiator asked his American counterpart why the US was being so unhelpful, and heard the answer “because unlike the Russians you don’t have nuclear warheads aimed at our cities”).

So the track record of Brazilian right or rightish governments is to pin high hopes on the US, fail, and then correct course. I believe Bolsonaro will repeat this cycle once again. My guess is that he hopes/expects that his general anti-establishment stance will open doors for Brazil in Trump’s Washington and that he’ll have U.S. support for his agenda, especially on the economic front. So his pro-Americanism is really genuine, within the old tradition of the Brazilian right, particularly now that Trump is president. But since Latin America continues to barely register in Washington and since Brazil continues to have no nuclear warheads, Bolsonaro is sure – IMHO – to be disappointed. Then he’ll turn the country back towards a more neutral position, give a higher profile to the BRICS, etc. We’ll see.

.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Brazil, Geopolitics, Jair Bolsonaro, Russia 
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  1. However, as another Brazilian commenter Dumbo points out, it is Catholicism that screwed up by embracing liberation theology in the 1970s-80s, with the result that the poor embraced socially conservative evangelicalism instead.

    I didn’t understand that comment, maybe “Dumbo” or some other Brazilian commenter can clarify…shouldn’t liberation theology have been popular with the poor? Why did it alienate them from the Catholic church?

  2. So in short I don’t buy into the doom-mongering going on amongst some lefty anti-imperialists over how Brazil has become an American colony or whatever.

    Why would it be a problem if Bolsonaro was in fact an “American stooge” or Brazil became an “American colony”? (Genuine, not argumentative, question.)

    • Replies: @Carlo
    , @Daniel Chieh
  3. Carlo says:
    @German_reader

    Because only intellectuals love leftism, the poors don’t. And this is not specific to Brazil, it is like this everywhere.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    , @Alin
  4. @Carlo

    Because only intellectuals love leftism, the poors don’t.

    Depends what’s meant by leftism…I guess it’s true for “soft on crime” policies which let criminals terrorize those who can’t afford protection. But as I understand it, liberation theology was more about economic justice in an unequal society and claimed to be especially concerned with the poor. Why did that backfire for the Catholic church?

  5. Carlo says:
    @Stolen Valor Detective

    For a number of reasons. First, because Brazil has potential to become a sovereign power: it (still) has a national aeronautical industry (Embraer, recently bought by Boeing), it has a full nuclear industry (even capable of enriching uranium) and miltary, motor, naval and electronic industries; important scientific and technological output in colleges. Second, because the US is the declining superpower, and China is the ascendant one.;Russia will not be a global superpower but has more future than the EU – so fully aligning with Western powers at the expenses of Eastern ones makes no sense in the longer term.

  6. @Stolen Valor Detective

    It would probably become quite Russophobic if it was to turn into one.

  7. Carlo says:
    @German_reader

    Because Liberation Theology had no real concern for the poor, their main concern was “The Revolution”. Throughout its long history, the Catholic Church ALWAYS cared for the poor, contrary to what her enemies said, it always provided many relief works for them, from orphanages to schools to hospitals and elderly homes. And when the Church did this, she had support from the lower classes (like the Cristeros in Mexico or the Vendée in France). The lower, uneducated classes, are usually saner than most intellectuals who dream about a “perfect” society, poor people know (or feel) that this is impossible and undesirable and only brings suffering.

  8. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    I think people assume he’s an American stooge because he’s basically like the anti-communist Cold War Latin American leaders that were indeed propped up by the US.

    He’s not Alt-Right like some assume, given his neoliberalism, pro-evangelicalism, philo-Semitism, etc. A lot of the Alt-Right either weren’t alive or were too young during the Cold War, so they don’t recognize conservative Cold War Latin Am. leaders and assume they must be some new thing like the Alt-Right.

    Among post-Cold War leaders, Bolsonaro appears to resemble Fujimori, a right wing neoliberal who rose to power at the end of the Cold War and ruled Peru during the 90s. Fujimori implemented neoliberal economic policy and waged war against the Maoist Shining Path and Marxist-Lenininst Tupac Amaru Movement. This appears to be similar to Bolsonaro’s goals of implementing neoliberal economic policy and attacking the Workers’ Party and Lulism.

  9. songbird says:

    with the world’s third largest population of white people after the US and Russia

    By my definition, this would be Germany. Though I guess self-identification is valid as its own category.

  10. Is Bolsonaro good for America?

    I say yes, for two reasons.

    1. If he successfully reduces crime and corruption, and boosts Brazil’s economy, it will reduce the number of Brazilians who want to migrate to America. Furthermore, it will provide a template of success for other Latin American countries, eventually reducing migration from the entire region. Instead of being useful idiots for the pro-immigration plutocrats and SJWs of the USA, the people of Latin America will be self respecting members of their own proud nations.

    2. Massive corruption in any large economy is always a disaster for the true interests of the American people – the kleptocrats always use their ill gotten gains to finance SJWs. Look at how the oligarchs of the 1990s who looted Russia, for instance, used their fortunes to harm the national interests of western nations. It was a major disaster for Russia, but also a minor disaster for the people of the west.

    There is good reason for the nationalists of every nation to cheer the success of nationalists in any nation.

  11. Big new Pew survey out. Comparing CEE with WE. Largely confirms what we already knew, but have some internal surprises. It focuses substantially on the young vs old comparisons on key questions. This is more relevant because this is the future of these societies. Basically, how optimistic can you be about a country in the long run getting good political outcomes? This is that survey.

    First, gay marriage.

    Russia and Ukraine in a league of their own. Czechs of course being very liberal on the issue. Hungary and Poland quite similar, despite Poland being substantially more religious. Estonia surprised me, given their reputation for not being so religious. Also thought Slovakia would be higher. I personally don’t care about gay marriage, as I’ve noted previously, but interesting nonetheless to track.

    Kudos to Russia for being woke on the JQ, maybe AK needs to modify his statement on Russian philosemitism. I’m jealous. Also thought Czechia would be higher given that they are very pro-Israel and often beat their chest about their philosemitism on various online forums (“we’re not like those other intolerants!”). Can’t say I’m hugely surprised about Hungary. Despite all the talk about the anti-Soros campaign being veiled anti-Semitism, never bought into that concept.

    Confirms that there has been an increase in religiosity in Russian society. However, I think people’s idea of being a ‘Christian’ is very liberal here, probably more about a vague cultural identity than actually practicing the religion. The sky-high numbers for some WE countries, such as Austria, basically confirms this.

    This is probably a better underlying indicator. Remember, this is young people.Russia is not a very religious society, Poland is substantially more so. However, looking at the daily/monthly breakdown reveals some interesting things. Portugal is apparently much more religious than Poland if you look at daily prayers vs church attendance. In Poland, the church is often a social hub and functions as a node in a community, particularly in the villages. Nevertheless, I know people who don’t pray often who are still religious so you probably need to combine the different factors.

    The most important ones saved for the end. Portugal’s high number will only re-confirm memes of it being an Eastern European country. Usually said with derision in terms of income, but apparently also true in some social indicators. I noted Portugal’s very low refugee acceptance in per capita terms last year. Nevertheless, it also shows that some WE countries have quite a bit of latent potential. Hungary is doing great, Russia is doing worse than I thought it would. I suppose the number would be higher if you only asked ethnic Russians. Poland doing better than I thought. The big negative outliers (comparatively) is the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

    First of all, maybe I should be less harsh on boomers in Poland. Russia’s number isn’t looking so good. You’d ideally want an increase in ethnocentrism, but again, how does this look for ethnic Russians? There could be a demographic composition effect at play here. Otherwise I’d be worried if I was a Russian. Hungary once again insanely based. Czechs and Slovaks are also negative outliers. Props to Croatia, which has always had a reputation for being a bit more liberal, for uncucking itself among the youth. I must also note Romania, which has consistently done well in all these surveys. So far it seems to be an untapped resource.

    Among Western countries, the big negative surprise is Denmark. Unlike Sweden, which had a much more liberal boomer base, Danes were a lot better on these topics. They also have had generally limited non-European immigration, so the large (huge, really) falls in ethnocentrism cannot be blamed entirely on demographics. There seems to be a liberalising effect at play, which does not bode well for Denmark being as good as they are in the long run. For most WE countries, I guess that a substantial portion of the falls can probably be due to far more non-whites in the youth groups (as well as white immigrants, who probably don’t want citizenship to be defined in ancestry). Once again Portugal and, to a lesser extent, Italy are doing well. The UK continues to be a latent potential breakout star. Ireland is still very white (over 93% in the latest census) so not surprised by those numbers. Spain is a positive surprise, especially for someone like me who likes the country. But the politics does not reflect it yet, probably because most of their immigrants are either Latin Americans who are easy to integrate or other Europeans. Their MENA share is still quite small, but growing. The situation in Sweden looks pretty hopeless, so don’t look now Thor, but I suppose miracles can happen and more spectacular turnarounds have occured.

  12. anon[169] • Disclaimer says:

    When the Marshall Plan was implemented, Brazil expected to receive something like it as well – and, of course, didn’t.

    lol, why would there be a Marshall Plan for Brazil?

    • Replies: @Nznz
  13. Ebden says: • Website

    So will openly gay men, trannies, or butch lesbians (lipstick lesbians are stealth anyway) be jailed now? And sodomy and gay pride parades banned? When can we expect human rights activists to be found floating down the river? LGBTQT dhimittude incoming?

    • Replies: @Carlo
  14. Nznz says: • Website
    @Polish Perspective

    With respect to gay marriage and being promoted LGBT, I have read in a survey that having gay friends or relatives or personally knowing LGBT people like cowrrkers is positively correlated with support for LGBT causes and gay marriage, I mean look at Dick Cheney and his support for gay marriage. It seems that the support in the increase for gay marriage comes from people whose relatives suddenly come out of the closet, or suddenly decide they are female like Bruce Jenner.

  15. Nznz says: • Website
    @anon

    Is deforesting the Amazon a good thing, or do the tree huggers have a point, I think a priority project should be highways and rail networks crossing the Amazon and connecting the West coast of South America via the Andes.

    • Replies: @Alin
  16. Nznz says: • Website

    Will we expect Brazil to drastically raise its military budget?

    • Replies: @Alin
  17. Yee says:

    Gotta hand it to the Yankees… No matter what they do, always a long line of countries waiting to be America’s “partner”, “natural ally” etc., promising so is a sure way to win an election.

  18. Dan Hayes says:
    @Carlo

    Carlo:

    Another example of the RC Church’s corporal mercies were its free hostel services for Tudor England vagabonds before its dissolution by Henry VIII. These hostels were strategically placed within a day’s vagrant travel.

    Henry and his minions promised that the dissolution of church land and its reversion to the Crown would ensure the end of taxation. Somehow or other that noble end was never quite achieved. And with it the hostels.

  19. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    I’d like to see Bolsonaro start a Falkland Islands style war. What’s the closest British territory to Brazil? St. Helena? The Virgin Islands? The Caymans? The Caymans are a big offshore tax haven. Maybe Bolsonaro can invade the Caymans and seize its wealth. That would be exciting and I would definitely support Brazil’s invasion. Trump should stay neutral in such a war and only be willing to stop Brazil if the UK hands over its North Sea oil and City of London financial assets.

    • Replies: @Carlo
    , @DFH
  20. anon[169] • Disclaimer says:

    the better question is:

    Is Bolsonaro an israeli stooge?

  21. Anatoly,

    You might want to publish a glossary of the clever words that you use. I’ve been reading you for a long time and still have no idea what “O-ring” or “K-selected” means.

    President Macri was reportedly delighted with Bolsonaro win, which suggests he sees him as a kindred spirit, and my intuition about Bolsonaro is the same.

    AK: In the works.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Daniel Chieh
    , @Alin
  22. @Polish Perspective

    Thanks, I am going to post about it. Didn’t do so yesterday because I wanted the Tutea piece to linger on the front page for a bit longer.

    Also adjust Russia for part of its population being Muslim and its as woke on Islam as Hungary.

    • Replies: @Some Guy
    , @A.A.
  23. neutral says:

    with the world’s third largest population of white people after the US and Russia

    This needs to challenged, I have no problem with non whites being pro white, but non whites claiming they are white is not acceptable. Brazil has too many whites that are more of the mulatto/mestizo type, they are not really white, just like George Zimmerman is not white. If I had to guess the amount of real whites in Brazil is no more than 30% of the population.

  24. Gende says: • Website
    @neutral

    You can just call whites with an asterisk, or Diet Coke whites, knock off whites, or adulterated whites.

  25. Some Guy says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Off-topic, but have you seen this “harmonized test scores”-data? Covers way more countries than PISA etc. Also, Russia happens to have the highest scores of any major white country.

    https://www.worldbank.org/en/data/interactive/2018/10/18/human-capital-index-and-components-2018

    • Replies: @g2k
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  26. @neutral

    This needs to challenged, I have no problem with non whites being pro white, but non whites claiming they are white is not acceptable.

    Since there is no definition of “white,” it’s better to learn to live with it or to promote differing categories of whiteness than to keep challenging it. It’s almost certain that, whatever your definition of white, someone will always claim that some of the people you are including are non-white. It becomes an endless circus. It’s ridiculous to expect people to commit themselves to a political movement which may or may not include them.

    • Replies: @Nznz
    , @neutral
  27. Nznz says: • Website
    @silviosilver

    So race is a social construct then? Do you realize what you are implying?

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @Epigon
  28. Is that Alin commenter really Brazilian? He spells Castelo Branco as “Castello,” not just once, but three or four times. I don’t think it’s a typo or a misremembering, like confusing Johnson with Johnston. Castelo means ‘castle’ in Portuguese, so it’s more like writing Cassel or Castel in English – it’s the sort of thing you’d reflexively realize is wrong. Of course, there are words that English speakers constantly misspell, like ‘loose’ for ‘lose’ or ‘rediculous’ for ‘ridiculous’, but it’s usually uneducated people who do this, and Alin hardly seems uneducated.

    • Replies: @Alin
  29. g2k says:
    @Some Guy

    I suspect that it’s a strange positive side effect of the school system being so neglected over there. Anglo and, to a slightly lesser extent, European countries have “reformed” their school systems over the years by very heavily adopting progressive education practices which are disastrous for standards.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  30. Bolsonaro is an American stooge. The USA is lead by Trump, a known Putin stooge. Putin let the Isrealis kill Russian servicemen in Syria, because he is controlled by the Zionists.

    Bolsonaro is in fact an Isreali stooge.

    The question remains: Is Samba kosher?

  31. @Nznz

    Race is rooted in biology, but it is indeed partly socially constructed. Even if you define race genetically, the place you draw the cut-off line is always going to be somewhat arbitrary. For some people 95% genetically white is enough, while others instead on something equally arbitrary like 98% or 90%. And people who do this have the awkward habit of treating people who fall 1% short no differently to people who fall 50% short or 100% short. To them, if you are ‘out,’ then you are totally out; you may as well be a negroid for all they care. This clearly raises the political stakes of participation in WN in a way that makes WN much less likely to succeed. (If you support WN and you turn out to be excluded from whiteness, then you could be in a lot of trouble if WN succeeds.)

  32. @Some Guy

    Interesting.

    There are serious reservations about the advisability and utility of this exercise of constructing HCI. There are major methodological weaknesses, besides substantial data gaps. For instance, for the schooling parameter, though quantity is assessed using enrolment rates reported by UNESCO, quality is gauged using harmonized test scores from major international student achievement testing programs. Due to lack of availability of an authoritative and uniform test score, about 9 different test scores and systems using varying methodology have been claimed to have been harmonized by the World Bank. None of the 9 systems cover more than 100 countries, with some have very limited regional coverage. This makes the methodology quite complex and non-uniform.

    http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=184131

    Worth taking a look at it in finer detail sometime. Russia does well in TIMSS/PIRLS so that’s probably a function of that.

  33. Epigon says:
    @Nznz

    My impression is that Brazil is reverse-USA when it comes to racial matters.

    In USA, having one drop of African blood means you are black, in Brazil, having one drop of European blood means you are not black.
    So I fully expect people with 25%-50% European ancestry to identify as White in Brazil.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @AP
    , @Alin
  34. neutral says:
    @silviosilver

    Lets do the easy part first, any MENA type is not white, that includes jews, Arabs, Turks, Kurds, Armenians, Iranians. Next anyone with with a quarter of black, Mexican, Indian, East Asian, etc blood is not white. The harder part is some of the very swarthy types from places like Sicily, Iberian peninsula, Greece and the Caucasus, the thing is if you are unable to draw the line anywhere in terms of classification because of the boundary problem (a problem in many other things) then you might as well admit that no white people exist.

    On who gets to decide who is white, people with pure white ancestry that can be traced to 300 years and beyond get to decide, certainly not people that have a non white grandparent. Apartheid South African and segregation USA are good models to follow on who is white, Brazil is the opposite to this, their one drop rule is that a little bit of white ancestry makes one white. Ultimately being white is a biological identity, it can never be something where people can decide to be white as a cultural choice.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  35. @Epigon

    So I fully expect people with 25%-50% European ancestry to identify as White in Brazil.

    You “fully expect” it, do you, you autistic clown.

    • Replies: @Epigon
  36. Nznz says: • Website

    If you follow Silvio silvers rule, I think a more logical thing to do is to do away with race altogether since it becomes meaningless.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  37. @Nznz

    So this is what you take away from my post about arbitrariness? Why don’t you try again.

  38. @neutral

    I will wait to see if you reply to my post about the arbitrariness of WN racial designations before pointing out the arbitrary portions of your argument here.

    the thing is if you are unable to draw the line anywhere in terms of classification because of the boundary problem (a problem in many other things) then you might as well admit that no white people exist.

    Well, you know, I’ve quipped before that few people doubted the white race’s existence until WNs tried to prove it, lol.

    For now, I will just say that if WN’s success was going to be determined by a handful or race nerds duking it out on an internet forum, then I think, in time, we probably could hammer out an agreement acceptable to all sides.

    But for WN to actually succeed, that agreement has to be politically marketable. And that’s where the race nerd approach totally fails.

    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @neutral
  39. @German_reader

    Unlike me, Carlo is (i’m assuming) actually Latin American. So he can correct or add on if he likes.

    But I want to point out just how far “liberation theology” and the type went in its focus on man rather than the divine: it went so far as to produce communist guerrilla priests! Like this fanatical psycho moron in Colombia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camilo_Torres_Restrepo

    Infamously, Pope John Paul II – who was not fully traditional but still anti-communist – visited Nicaragua in 1983 only to find that the local Jesuits – totally Sandinista’d – were out to embarrass him in front of the whole world media!

    There is a reason why I, a traditional Catholic, nod my head in agreement when Dostoevsky criticizes the Jesuits.

    • Replies: @Carlo
  40. Epigon says:
    @silviosilver

    Alberto Barbosa, calm down.
    Besides, Moortugal isn’t White.

    • Replies: @Nznz
    , @silviosilver
  41. @Polish Perspective

    As an American, I can tell you that personally not caring about gay marriage is a good way to kill whatever is left of Poland.

  42. @g2k

    I suspect that it’s a strange positive side effect of the school system being so neglected over there.

    If by “over there” you mean Russia, then you couldn’t be farther from the truth. Schoolwork is insane in Russia at the moment, the workload would make a Korean ashamed and they’re constantly iterating various ‘innovations’.

  43. Nznz says: • Website
    @Epigon

    No, I mean if someone who is 100 European and someone who is 40 percent European are both equally white, how can race be anything but a social construct?

  44. neutral says:
    @silviosilver

    Sure, WN will succeed by marketing the idea that Neymar is indeed white… Then there is girl, I am sure you are happy to embrace her as a fellow white, since these days all it takes is to pretend you are something to join the group. http://www.asiaone.com/world/black-teen-insists-shes-white-dr-phil-show-says-african-americans-are-ugly

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  45. @Epigon

    Well, duh, everyone knows that. “The wogs start in Calais” is eternal truth. And just as soon as the “Saxon begins to hate,” this ideology is going to sweep the white world.

  46. @neutral

    I can’t help it if WN today has serious weaknesses. What I can do is point those weaknesses out in the hope they might be addresssed. These weaknesses weren’t there a hundred years ago. Maybe not even fifty years ago. But today, and fifty years from now? There are tremendous weaknesses. So much so that WN could fairly be regarded an ideology without a constituency. Scoffing at me with silly exaggerations isn’t going to change that.

    • Replies: @Hahaha
    , @iffen
  47. Carlo says:
    @Ebden

    Let me try to answer each question:
    1- No, this is unconstitutional and would generate a lot of troubles for the country internally and externally (international human rights conventions);
    2- Hopefully, something like the Russian gay propaganda law will be proposed, Evangelicals in Congress would probably view it favourably;
    3- No, for the same reason as number 1;
    4- Hopefully yes, at least with less state support: end homosexual and gender ideologies promotion disguised as “sexual education” in schools, or financial support for LGBT-gender NGOs.

    • Replies: @Nznz
  48. Carlo says:
    @Anonymous

    Makes no sense whatsoever. Brazil only has very small territorial disputes with much smaller neighbors Uruguay and Bolivia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Territorial_disputes_of_Brazil

    Perhaps Bolsonaro could foster Macri being a bit more truly conservative and right-wing, this would be good. Macri is still tied to populist-leftist policies as he is too afraid of the all-powerful Peronist party and labor unions.

  49. Carlo says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    That is correct. I am a Brazilian living in Argentina. And like you, “traditional” Catholic (quote marks because there is no “modernist” Catholicism, by definition Catholicism, like Orthodoxy, is traditional).

  50. Epigon says:

    I am a Brazilian living in Argentina.

    So, you are somewhat like our Russian-living-in-USA host and members?

    (quote marks because there is no “modernist” Catholicism, by definition Catholicism, like Orthodoxy, is traditional

    You do realise that Roman Catholicism changed quite significantly over the last 10-12 centuries? Numerous new dogmas, hitherto heretical practices and controversial affairs transpired?

    Funnily, in the true meaning and sense of the word, Roman Catholicism is not Catholic. Orthodox Catholic is the full, theological name, btw, and not without a reason.

  51. Nznz says: • Website
    @Carlo

    Will it be a good idea to link Manaus by rail to the rest of the country and Peru?

  52. Hahaha says: • Website
    @silviosilver

    Silvio silver should start a marketing campaign for MBS as White, seriously sometimes you have to evaluate if the house is so rotten with termites that blowing it actually constitutes an act of mercy.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  53. Dmitry says:

    Had Karlin’s blog suddenly become popular in Brazil? This guy Alin seems to be writing more deep comments about Brazil, than were published today by professional journalists in BBC, Kommersant, Guardian, etc.

    • Replies: @Hyperborean
    , @Alin
  54. Anonymous[848] • Disclaimer says:

    His particular animosity towards China, his ties with evangelicals and sympathies for Israel tells me he might be a friend to neocons.

  55. DFH says:
    @Anonymous

    How well did that work out for the Argies?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  56. @Dmitry

    Had Karlin’s blog suddenly become popular in Brazil? This guy Alin seems to be writing more deep comments about Brazil, than were published today by professional journalists in BBC, Kommersant, Guardian, etc.

    I think people just like explaining their own country.

  57. @Felix Keverich

    Memespeak shall be the new cant of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

  58. iffen says:
    @silviosilver

    WN could fairly be regarded an ideology without a constituency.

    I view it as a constituency without an ideology.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  59. @Polish Perspective

    Revealed preference matters more than stated preference.

    My basic position here is:

    • Swedes are religious fanatics
    • Swedes are xenophobes

    The current religion is bioleninism (or cultural marxism, SJWism, whatever). This has caused tremendous harm to Swedish society, but it has had a limited impact on Swedish behavior.

    There are for instance far fewer efforts to integrate “migrants” in Sweden than there are in Germany, which is a much more conservative country. Swedes typically do not have many, or any, non-Swedish friends let alone spouses (or sambo). The “migrants” are far more segregated in Sweden than I’ve seen in any other Western country.

    Thus I expect all this to wash away as bioleninism evaporates as the dominant religious faith of the West, and it seems that process has already begun.

    That’s not to say one can be cocksure about the situation in Sweden–or any other Western country. For that matter the problem appears to be spreading outside of the West as well now. Poland is now discussing filipino guest workers, South Korea has embraced “global Korea”, Russia has its Central Asian gastarbeiter, and even in Japan the annual inflow of migrants has now reached some 300,000 (though it appears they mostly eventually go home…for now).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @anonymous
  60. @Hahaha

    Well, an alternative would be to first try getting help for your paranoia. Who knows, you may well make a full recovery.

  61. @iffen

    Yes, it has that aspect too. In general, it’s a complete mess. Which is a real pity, considering how much it gets right:

    * Race is real and it matters
    * It’s better to have a culture that celebrates your racial existence than a culture which denigrates it
    * White people really are going extinct
    * Whites really are being punished for other people’s shortcomings
    * Jewish influence, hypocrisy and double standards are a reality

    That looks like a damn good foundation. But WN loons take that solid foundation and muck it up royally. It’s almost comical how incompetent they are.

    • Replies: @iffen
  62. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Automation will reduce a lot of the need for a large proportion of gastarbeiters of the future. There’s already the situation of introduction of automatic supermarket cashiers. Before this automatic ticket machines.

    Maybe in a decade, self-cleaning public toilets and self-driving taxis?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  63. Pericles says:
    @neutral

    “Aspirational whites”.

  64. @Dmitry

    Automation can do some things, but it requires a surprisingly high technical base to support it and isn’t as flexible as some technologists make it out to be – you’ll get the low-hanging fruit and then it’ll face declining returns. A lot of the current solutions also depend on having a social and/or technological infrastructure: a very low trust society can’t do automatic cashier machines and driverless cabs will probably widespread survelliance systems over roads to minimize accidents.

    Humans will still be competitive for some time, even without considering the capital costs for automation.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  65. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Automated systems require smaller numbers of more educated demographics to design and install, so at worst it will improve the quality of gastarbeiters required.

    Many automatic cashier systems are designed in Japan, for example, so gastarbeiter technical specialists in West Europe who build the systems are already Japanese working with West Europe employees.

    Even core area of gastarbeiters – construction workers, may fall in demand, with new potential prefabricated construction methods.

    Introduction of digital fabrication into construction industry, could greatly reduce numbers required, as more of what they carry to the construction site will be already fitted together (we will probably have even uglier buildings though) – putting together buildings is already becoming a little similar to making IKEA furniture. Ratio of construction workers needed for modern buildings has been falling continuously for many years already though.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  66. @Dmitry

    And Japan also has completely unmonitored honor-based stores, you couldn’t do that in many parts of the world. A lot of it depends on the technological and social infrastructure, which isn’t as easy to change.

    Automation isn’t a once-and-done thing either, which you should know since you seem to have worked in technology. It takes an input of fairly regular upkeep, not sure how it’ll impact migrant workers. Maybe a lot of it can be done remotely, or advised remotely(thus support services).

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  67. iffen says:
    @silviosilver

    * Whites really are being punished for other people’s shortcomings

    Restricting the discussion to the US, the shortcomings are obscured by historical social and political relations. Blacks, for example, really were denied equal opportunity in education and employment. They really were denied the right to vote and equal protection of the law. It is really difficult to separate the threads and say that it’s all on them and there are no lingering aftereffects. Plus, I think the blank slate is the default position for most people. Speaking anecdotally, it is extremely difficult for a person who has a deep desire for equalitarianism to understand and accept that the slate is far from blank.

    I think that it is relatively easy to be firmly anti-anti-white without going full neo-Nazi.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  68. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @DFH

    The US wasn’t neutral during that war. The US along with the Chileans constantly updated the Brits with intelligence.

  69. Anonymous[155] • Disclaimer says:
    @neutral

    This is true, but about 17% to 18% of Brazilians can trace all of their ancestors back to Europe and have literally zero non-white ancestry. So that would make about 40 million pure white people in Brazil. Less than Germany, France and possibly England, but still the #5 country in the World with the most pure white people.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Bliss
  70. @Dan Hayes

    Yes, I think it’s been noted by historians that the dissolution (“nationalization” as Michael Flanders quipped) of the monasteries coincided with an explosion of social dysfunctions of every variety amongst the lower-classes in England, a state of affairs which persisted largely unabated in many regards until the social reforms of the late Victorian era began to take effect.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  71. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    But in parts of the world where gastarbeiters are flooding (more developed countries), there will be technical basis for increasing automation, which will reduce need for gastarbeiters.

  72. Dmitry says:
    @Anonymous

    Middle-class Brazilians not so different to middle-class Americans: some random mixture of different nationalities/ethnic types – everyone maybe more brown than middle-class American, but in a way which looks good in girls.

  73. Bliss says:
    @Anonymous

    about 17% to 18% of Brazilians can trace all of their ancestors back to Europe and have literally zero non-white ancestry.

    But only a small fraction of that “17 to 18% of Brazilians” can trace all their ancestors to northwestern Europe. Right?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  74. Dmitry says:

    New York Times view of the election, describing him like Brazil’s Zhirinovsky.

    At 6:20 they are saying why middle class women supported him because he wants to increase to more American style gun rights.

  75. @German_reader

    shouldn’t liberation theology have been popular with the poor? Why did it alienate them from the Catholic church?

    Socialism always and everywhere purports to be a movement of the working class, but always and everywhere in fact is run by and for the benefit of the intelligentsia. The same phenomenon was observable in 19th-c. Russia, where the narodniki were rejected by the peasants, who had sense enough to recognize this.

    The intellectual is a harsher master than the feudal lord of the manor or the traditional sort of grasping capitalist ever were. The latter two want only to control what those subject to them do. The intellectual wants to control what they think.

    As the longshoreman-philosopher Eric Hoffer remarked, “whenever the intellectuals are in power, there’s soul-raping going on.”

    And as George Orwell wrote, “The ordinary man may not flinch from a dictatorship of the proletariat, if you offer it tactfully; offer him a dictatorship of the prigs, and he gets ready to fight.”

  76. Bliss says:
    @Polish Perspective

    The Data tells us that:

    1. The Europeans who were the last to be christianized/romanized/civilized (the northernmost of Euros) are the first to abandon the Roman/MENA religion.

    2. The poorest Europeans tend to be the most religious, the most nationalist, the most xenophobic, the most homophobic. In other words, the most conservative.

    3. The two most consistently opposite extremes in Europe are Northwest Europe vs Southeast Europe. More specifically, Scandinavia and Benelux vs Balkans and Caucasus. Most specifically, Sweden and Denmark vs Georgia and Armenia.

    Btw, when did Georgia and Armenia become part of Europe?

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  77. Emilia says:

    About the former Ukrainian interim president being a Baptist, would you say that evangelicalism has made significant inroads in Ukraine (or in Russia, for that matter)? I have heard that in Romania, Pentecostalism has some following in the Roma population.

    • Replies: @AP
  78. AP says:
    @Epigon

    My impression is that Brazil is reverse-USA when it comes to racial matters

    It is, but not in the way you think.

    In USA, having one drop of African blood means you are black, in Brazil, having one drop of European blood means you are not black.
    So I fully expect people with 25%-50% European ancestry to identify as White in Brazil.

    It’s different. In the USA, the typical “black” is actually 15%-20% European. In Brazil, the typical “white” is 15% African (I am not including the pure Europeans living in villages and small cities in the southern extremes of the country, but typical whites in places like Sao Paulo).

  79. AP says:
    @Emilia

    It is mostly Pentacostals in Ukraine, and there are quite a few of them; many have come to the USA.

    • Replies: @Emilia
  80. Anonymous[155] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bliss

    That is true to a certain degree. If you make the definition of “white” extremely strict(one-drop rule *and* northwest European ancestry), then the number of Brazilians that qualify are a dwindling number. I would say 8% to 13% of the population. Brazil received a lot of Italian immigrants to add to the Portuguese stock, but Brazil received even more German, Dutch, Ukraninian and Polish immigrants.About 75% of white Brazilians are from those groups. But “northwestern European” is a very specific and restricted category, which would include only Germans, Dutch and French so the numbers are not big.

    But still about 18% of Brazilians are *truly* white, and another 15% are quasi-white who are at least 95% European. If we include only *pure* whites, that is still close to 45 million people. That would make Brazil the #4 country in the World with the largest white population, behind only the U.S, Russia and Germany. Brazil has more white people than both France and England. Think about that for a second. Brazil is also somwhere between the World’s 5th to 9th largest GDP depending on how you measure GDP.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  81. A.A. says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Also adjust Russia for part of its population being Muslim and its as woke on Islam as Hungary.

    Do you mean the question on how willing people would be to accept Muslims as family members? This question wasn’t asked to Muslims, so no further adjustment necessary. Anyway, 34% said they were willing to accept Muslims as family members.

    Some years before this (in 2013) Pew asked a similar question to Muslims in various countries including Russia. They asked Muslims how comfortable they would be with the idea of their son or daughter marrying a Christian. In Russia, 52% said they would be comfortable with their son marrying a Christian and 39% said they would be comfortable with their daughter marrying a Christian (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-interfaith-relations/). That would make Christians in Russia comparably speaking more ‘woke’ on this issue than Muslims.

  82. Emilia says:
    @AP

    So it appears that most Ukrainians who convert to Protestantism are joining groups like Pentecostals as opposed to the “traditional” Protestant religious denominations like the Lutherans, Anglicans, etc. My other impression is that churches like the Pentecostals or Baptists, those groups generally considered “conservative Protestants” or “fundamentalist Protestants” aren’t making much of a headway in the “Westernized Eastern” European countries like Poland, Croatia, Lithuania, etc.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  83. Alin says:
    @Felix Keverich

    Bolsonaro’s team just indicated that his first trip abroad will be to Chile (then U.S. and Israel), and not to Argentina as traditionally it would be. Bolsonaro’s future Minister of the Economy just said Argentina and Mercosur won’t be priorities for the new government. Macri is shitting in his pants.

    • Replies: @Nznz
    , @Carlo
  84. Alin says:
    @neutral

    If 30% of Brazil’s population should be counted as “real whites”, that would be 60 million people. Not a small number.

    If self-identification is used, Brazil would have a little over 100 million whites.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  85. Alin says:
    @silviosilver

    Both versions are correct: it’s the spelling rules of the Portuguese language that have changed. In his birth certificate and during his lifetime, Castello Branco used the two “l”s. Nowadays, since he’s dead, it would be more correct to use only one “l”, as that is the correct spelling required by the current rules, but I find this a little idiotic

    Another example: former leftist President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. The “Luiz” is formally incorrect, it should be spelled “Luís”. But “Luiz” is how the man’s father spelled his name in the birth certificate, so that’s how he’s called. After he’s dead, one will write of “Luís Inácio Lula da Silva’. Again, this is in theory. Few people know these changing spelling rules, and even those who do know (like me) don’t give a shit.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  86. Alin says:
    @Epigon

    You’re in the right direction but not fully correct. It’s not so much that in Brazil we have a “reverse one-drop rule”; here, phenotype is king.

    A person with “25%-50%” European ancestry in Brazil might identify and be accepted as white as long as that 25-50% includes the alleles that express European skin, hair, etc. phenotypes. Of course, that wouldn’t be too common if the white ancestry is really low, but it might happen. And a half-white with more-than-half-white-looking-phenotype using the right skin products and avoiding the sun can go a long way.

    The one thing we usually don’t do is to use ancestry to identify race. Let’s say we have a 75%-white and 25%-black mixed race person, whose phenotype takes strongly from the white side of his ancestry so he can pass. If he can pass, even knowing this hypothetical person’s black grandfather won’t change his status as “white”.

    • Replies: @Alin
    , @silviosilver
  87. Alin says:
    @Alin

    So yes, of course it’s ridiculous to consider all self-identified Brazilian whites as “whites” in the American or European sense. But since Brazil is so large, even a large discount on the number of “true whites” will leave tens of millions of them.

    On “northwestern Europeans”, since some commenters mentioned them, they would of course be a minority within Brazilian whites. Most Brazilian whites or whitish people have Iberian or Italian roots. There has been very little British and Scandinavian migration. So the largest number of “northwestern Europeans” would be German Brazilians.

    There are lots of them around. I’d guess some ~3 million people speak a German dialect at home nowadays in Southern Brazil (that’s extrapolating from survey data from the 1990s and assuming a steady rate of decline). The most widespread dialect is a compound of Hunsrückish and Pomeranian German, both varieties of which no longer exist in Germany proper, and is called “Riograndenser Hunsrückisch”. It would be Southern Brazil’s Afrikaans if history had taken a different turn in the past. And of course most German-Brazilians no longer speak their original language. Including those fully assimilated, maybe 15 million German-descended Brazilians? (I’m guessing here, but within the bound of probability).

    There is also a large number of Slavs, mostly Poles and Ukrainians. Very few Russians proper. Guessing some further 10 million people descended from them. The Polish-Brazilians have mostly assimilated; some of the Ukrainians still keep to their language.

    If you put in Italians you’ll get to several tens of millions. Most Italian-Brazilians came from North Italy, unlike the case with the U.S. where most came from the south of the peninsula.

  88. Alin says:
    @Nznz

    Although something might be done on this front, up north in the Amazon region this would usually be economically unfeasible. It just wouldn’t pay for itself. Down in the center-south, from Bolivia to Uruguay, this already mostly exists, though of course conditions could be muuuch improved.

  89. Alin says:
    @Nznz

    Most unlikely. Brazil has no money and no pressing need.

    What might happen is that Brazil’s military technology development programs might be funded more reliably. For example, we’ve been building a homegrown nuclear submarine for ages; since every year the budget is slashed, planning goes astray and the project just survives and does not go forward. There are other projects like it.

    That’s as far as I foresee it going, and even then I wouldn’t be so sure…

  90. Nznz says: • Website
    @Alin

    Is the Beagle Channel about to get interesting?

  91. Alin says:

    Hehe. No, that issue is thankfully solved. And the last thing Brazil should want is the neighborhood heating up. The danger is a full and quick implosion of Venezuela (instead of the slow-motion implosition we’re witnessing). A smaller danger would be the Bolivian claim against Chile, but Bolivia has accepted the complete Chilean victory in the verdict given by the International Court at The Hague a few weeks ago, so that’s unlikely to heat up for now. Venezuela, though…

  92. utu says:

    I think I wrote it here not so long ago that in mid 1980′s I had this insight that the US was heading in the direction of Brazil. I called this trend a Bazilification. Part of it was the trend of shrining middle class and increase in expenses on private security and more gated communities.

    America’s hidden underclass: 62% of jobs DON’T pay to enough to support a middle-class lifestyle after accounting for cost of living

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6335063/Americas-hidden-underclass-62-jobs-DONT-pay-support-middle-class-lifestyle.html

  93. Anonymous[155] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alin

    I think 30% is an overestimate if you use the “one drop rule”. I think a more reasonable estimate for pure whites is about 18%. But there are another 15% or so of Brazilians who are semi-white or quasi-white. By that, I mean someone who has one great-great-grandparent out of 16 who is not white. If you consider these people as “white”, then yes, the number of white Brazilians is more than 30%.

    But talking only about Brazilians that have *zero* non-white ancestry, they are still tens of millions of people . The largest white ethnicities in Brazil are, in descending order: Italians (from Lombardy), Portuguese, Germans, Poles and Dutch.

    But the thing about the 100% pure white Brazilians is that they don’t *look* as white as white Americans. There is a reason for this: the typical white American is a mixture of people from the British Islands, northern Germany(Saxony) and Scandinavia. These are the palest peoples on Earth. Other Europeans, like the French, Belgians, etc, don’t look as white as those peoples. Even Brazilians who are of 100% German descent to not look as white as white Americans, because most Germans that came to Brazil were from Bavaria, and they just don’t look as white as the Germans from Hamburg that immigrated to America. This is why when an American is shown a picture of a white Brazilian, who is of 100% European descent, he still thinks he might have some non-white ancestry. That is because white Brazilians, like white French or Swiss, just don’t look as pasty as Scots, English, Swedes and Saxons, the peoples that were the building block of American whites.

  94. @iffen

    Your first paragraph states that there are reasons why whites are being unfairly punished. Well sure. But whites are still being unfairly punished, which is the important point.

    I think that it is relatively easy to be firmly anti-anti-white without going full neo-Nazi.

    I agree completely. In moments of quiet conceit, I like to think I’m the one who coined the term ‘anti-anti-white.’ (If not, I’ve still used it for over a decade.) So it’s gratifying to see its use spread.

    Jews will struggle most with it, though. After spending well over half a century engineering the white man’s downfall, with final victory in sight, they’re supposed to change tack now? That’s a mighty big ask. Not impossible, but a mighty big ask.

    • Replies: @iffen
  95. @Bliss

    Btw, when did Georgia and Armenia become part of Europe?

    After the fall of the Soviet Union; few people had ever heard of them before that, so it wasn’t ever necessary to mention them. Pro-EU types began classing Turkey as part of Europe in surveys like this, so I guess it seemed the most reasonable thing to also class Armenia and Georgia as part of Europe.

  96. @Anonymous

    Brazil received a lot of Italian immigrants to add to the Portuguese stock, but Brazil received even more German, Dutch, Ukraninian and Polish immigrants.

    Get real. Italian immigration utterly dwarfed those groups combined.

  97. @A.A.

    Anyway, 34% said they were willing to accept Muslims as family members.

    “Accept” is very vague. If I were polled, I would answer “no, I wouldn’t accept it,” even though in actual practise I have a family member married to a “muslim” and I do indeed accept him (and even like the guy). I would just be making a political point. Other people in a similar situation to myself might answer (more truthfully, as it happens) that “yes, they would accept it.”

    It also depends greatly on the kind of “muslim” people imagine when answering. Someone bedecked in Islamic garb who goes to mosque and brims with anti-western rejection? Very few people would truly accept this, I think. A nominal muslim who eats pork, drinks, swears, is a functional atheist etc? This is very easy to accept.

  98. Hal 9000 says:

    It is nearly impossible that people behind Bolsonaro (Bolsonaro himself is a politician more corrupt than those he attacks, living for decades this way, and is as important as Macron: a mere tool that will be “amortized” when necessary) can be another thing than a Washington stooge. Brazil is not India, forget Russia and China. Simply, Brazil cannot afford to oppose Washington as India or Russia can. Game over. All players know this.

    The fight is within elites. And is highly likely that ends in Civil War, covered if not in full sight. Brazil has chosen to be a battlefield between US and emergent powers, and it will pay a high prize. Bolsonaro’s option has nothing to offer except they really don’t know what to do, exactly like Brexiteers. It is a HUGE difference with Russia and obviously China (and even Japan or the EU itself).

    All the rest is mere propaganda, I agree with this. But is a very dangerous one, like Trump’s (more, even), and it will go against their sellers and everybody without exception.

    Wait and see.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  99. @Alin

    Thank you for that explanation. It’s always nice to learn some interesting trivia. And sorry for doubting you.

  100. @Alin

    The one thing we usually don’t do is to use ancestry to identify race. Let’s say we have a 75%-white and 25%-black mixed race person, whose phenotype takes strongly from the white side of his ancestry so he can pass. If he can pass, even knowing this hypothetical person’s black grandfather won’t change his status as “white”.

    How does this self-identifying, and passing, and being “accepted as” actually play out in life?

    For example, how do people proclaim their racial self-identity? Are they actually asked about it? Or do you have to wait for someone to bring it up in the context of speaking about, for instance, “that’s going to be trouble for us whites….” (or you might think of a more realistic example)? Or is it more indirect, and you pick up on it if someone refers to other people as a racial out-group to which he might have been thought to belong? Eg In the case of some “black” type, if he says “I was talking to this negao the other day…”, would you infer that he doesn’t regard himself as being a negao, and that this would then resolve any ambiguity about this person’s racial identity (ie, if you had previously been susceptible to regarding him as a negao, you would now definitely not do so)?

    With respect to passing and being “accepted as,” could you describe how this plays out? Let’s say you see two people together, one whom you’d regard as white and the other whom you might not. If they’re friendly with each other, would you regard this situation as the whiter individual “accepting” the less white individual as a racial equal? Or would you require more information before forming a judgement about the racial relationship between them? Similarly, how would you (or anyone) know whether another person is accepted as white? Or put differently, how would someone know that they are not accepted as white? What happens, are they told directly?
    Given how often opinions differ on racial classifications, how are disputes resolved? Does etiquette require a newcomer to a group simply go with the existing group opinion regarding someone’s race? Is it rude to challenge to that opinion? Do people sit around talking about what the most appropriate racial classification is for someone?

    I apologize for all these questions. It would be wonderful if you could answer them all, but there’s a lot I’ve thrown at you, so I’d be happy to hear anything at all you have to say, even if you can’t respond to everything.

    Oh, and lastly, is Chico Buarque white in Brazil? What about Caetano Veloso? My guess would have been “no” when he was young, but as an older man, his appearance seems to have “whitened.”

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  101. Some tough talk from Russian officials on Syria: ready to shoot down American plane.

  102. @German_reader

    Evangelical preachers are basically businessmen, whereas Catholic priests aren’t. As businessmen, they have more aggressive and unscrupulous techniques than their Catholic counterparts. Poor uneducated people are an easy prey for these money-grubbing faith peddlers who enjoy tax exemption under a “public utility” pretext. And the best way to win a poor person’s devotion is by promising them they will become rich. Catholics promise them they will become equal, which doesn’t have as strong an appeal. History is full of examples of people acting against their best interests. In fact, I think that is the rule, not the exception. Otherwise we would have paradise on Earth today.

  103. @silviosilver

    Caetano Veloso’s father was mixed-race (“mulatto”); Caetano himself does not have noticeable African looks. As for Chico Buarque I think there is a song in which he speaks of his diverse ancestry, which would include African. Just by looking at him one would call him white.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  104. iffen says:
    @silviosilver

    But whites are still being unfairly punished, which is the important point.

    Sure, but if someone wrongs you, isn’t it also important to know and understand if they did so because they were mistaken as to the facts rather than from knowing the facts and still wishing you harm?

    After spending well over half a century engineering the white man’s downfall

    Right out of the gate you run into a barrier for your WN project. Are Jews white or not? Most whites (95%?) do not share your anti-Semitism. The only way you can promote your anti-Semitism is by going full bore neo-Nazi.

    I like to think I’m the one who coined the term ‘anti-anti-white.’

    Good for you. It’s definitely real and will likely increase in the future. You need to work on a better word, something shorter and not so clumsy. :)

    It’s needed.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  105. Carlo says:
    @Alin

    I am Brazilian but live in Argentina, and media here is writing that according to Bolsonaro’s team “there is still no official decision” on which country he will visit first, and Paulo Guedes (the future minister of economy) said that Argentina is and will continue being a very important partner, though he confirmed that Mercosul won’t be the top priority. For those who can read Spanish (or can use an online translator):

    https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2186965-guedes-se-disculpa-con-la-argentina-y-se-afianza-como-superministro

  106. @iffen

    Right out of the gate you run into a barrier for your WN project. Are Jews white or not? Most whites (95%?) do not share your anti-Semitism. The only way you can promote your anti-Semitism is by going full bore neo-Nazi.

    If you’re going to be anti-anti-white, then you have to notice who is being anti-white. And it’s just plainly obvious – once one deigns to look – that Jews have been at the forefront of the most exciting anti-white developments.

    If it’s “anti-semitic” to notice this, so be it. If 95% of whites realized that this was all it took to be denounced as “anti-semitic,” then I think you’d see the number of whites (and non-whites, too) who care whether something is “anti-semitic” or not begin to drastically shrink.

    It is of course ridiculous to claim that this equates to “full bore neo-Nazi.” Par for the course for Jew-firsters like yourself, but as far as I’m concerned: yawn.

    Jews obviously define themselves out of whiteness (unless a Jew does something bad, in which case the Jewish media denounces him as an evil white man, not an evil Jew). But in terms of anti-anti-whitism, it doesn’t matter whether Jews (or anyone else) are deemed to be white or not. Strict definitions only matter if you’re going to apply specific policies to one group or another – eg benefiting whites, or excluding non-whites – then you have to know who is who – but if you just want to end anti-whitism, none of this matters.

    Lastly, it doesn’t matter what I say or don’t say. I don’t even have to mention Jews. Jews themselves will look at anti-anti-whitism and decide, gulp, this doesn’t seem to be “good for the Jews.” If you disagree, then let’s wait and see what happens.

  107. @Brás Cubas

    Sorry, slight mistake: Chico referred to himself as not being white in an interview, not in song lyrics. But he wasn’t specific. Earlier I was thinking about a song he wrote about his ancestors’ geographical diversity, which is not the same as racial diversity.

  108. Nznz says: • Website

    OT but why was Argentina’s junta so much bloodier that its Brazilian counterpart? I actually have some sympathy for Galtieri, he seems to be a genuine patriot, and was personally an honest person and lived modestly, unlike Pinochet. He should have been allowed to retire peacefully and be given a quiet nondescript military funeral. Of course if your ox was gored by the junta you would feel differently.

  109. anonymous[254] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Is there any data on race mixing in Sweden?

  110. @A.A.

    In Russia, 52% said they would be comfortable with their son marrying a Christian and 39% said they would be comfortable with their daughter marrying a Christian…

    LOL. That just means the vast majority of Tatar and Bashkir Muslims said yes and the vast majority of Caucasus Muslims said no.

  111. @Emilia

    I wrote about my impressions of them in some old comments:

    I’m quite familiar with this class of Ukrainians, there’s a concentration of them around Sacramento.

    They tend to be honest and affable, though extremely religious and frankly rather dim. They also have hordes of children.

    Personal anecdote:

    One of my friends was once invited to lunch by one such person – let’s call her Halyna – and she brought me along. We noticed Halyna wasn’t wearing a seatbelt as we drove to her house. When we pointed that out, she told us that “God is watching me.” After an awkward silence, my friend logically pointed out, “But what if God is looking the other way at some unfortunate moment?” After a few moments of ponderation, Halyna agreed and fastened her seatbelt after all.

    After lunch we were invited to a Bible study session at the house of another person in that community. We politily declined.

    My impression is that though they were ultra-religious, they were not especially nationalist; they mingled freely with fundamentalist Russian emigres (though there were at least 10x fewer of them than Ukrainians, of whom most of whom came from the far west). I suppose this is unsurprising since Christianity is universalistic, so after a certain point of religiosity – and they pretty much max out that stats tree – nationalism has nowhere to go but down. I think they voted more or less uniformly for Trump.

    • Replies: @Emilia
  112. Emilia says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Thank you for responding. I remember reading some 20 years about a Romanian Pentecostal family (don’t know if they were Roma; they gave their son an Indian – East Indian – name but it was hard to tell by looking at their picture whether they were Roma or not) and they had this “God will provide” or “God will look out for us” attitude. In the United States, “native white” Pentecostals tend to be relatively uneducated and conservative in their attitudes toward abortion, gay marriage, etc., although they have a higher divorce rate than other religious groups because they tend to marry at a young age.

  113. Anonymous[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hal 9000

    What do you mean by “oppose”? Sure, Brazil cannot oppose America militarilly despite being one of the World’s #5 largest weapons manufacturers. But then, America could not in a million years hope to take Brazil. If it did, it would make the Vietnam War seem like a walk in the park by comparison.

    If you mean economically, America is no longer the #1 trade partner of Brazil, and not even #2. Those would be China and the European Unuon. Also, trade sanctions from America wouldn’t matter because tbhe U.S does not manufacture anything that is essential for Brazil. In the case of a trade war, Brazil would lose Hollywood blockbusters and that’s about it. Conversely, America coes import a lot of goods from Brazil that she doesen’t make.

    Brazil is 100% capable of resisting an economic war with America.

  114. Considering the NED and NDI were both writing anti-Bolsonaro and pro-Haddad blogs prior to the election it’s clear that elements within the US deep state were trying to harm Bolsonaro. The articles in Foreign Policy Magazine and The Atlantic, both required reading at the State Department, confirm this. Bolsonaro may like America more than Haddad, but Haddad owed America big time.

    The real question is why is the US deep state backing anti-American communists in Brazil instead of pro-American conservatives? That’s something to look into.

    Anti-Bolsonaro NED articles.

    https://www.demdigest.org/brazil-the-next-democracy-to-fall-in-populist-wave/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20181007054703/https://www.demdigest.org/brazil-the-next-democracy-to-fall-in-populist-wave/

    https://www.demdigest.org/does-populism-really-threaten-democracy/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20181007054736/https://www.demdigest.org/does-populism-really-threaten-democracy/

    Anti-Bolsonaro article in the US State Department’s semi-official magazine.

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/10/05/bolsonaros-model-its-goebbels-fascism-nazism-brazil-latin-america-populism-argentina-venezuela/

    http://archive.fo/PwLzg

    Pro-Haddad and Anti-Bolsonaro NDI article.

    https://www.demworks.org/making-democracy-popular-corruption-populism-brazil

    http://archive.fo/Uthsp

    Anti-Bolsonaro article in the Atlantic.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/10/brazil-election-democracy-jair-bolsonaro-lula-haddad/572470/

    https://web.archive.org/web/20181008144704/https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/10/brazil-election-democracy-jair-bolsonaro-lula-haddad/572470/

  115. HAL 9000 says:

    @Anonymous262

    Politically oppositions. You are right, but, where the Brazilian elites have their money? Game over. The US can advance sanctions on people in Russia, China or India, and the affected people simply will laugh, if not repatriate any money that remotely could be blocked or seized by the US. Not a single member of Brazilian elites can do such a thing, and all of them are deeply linked to the Western vassalage to merely try.

    Washington knows, Beijing knows, Moscow knows and so on. This is why I say Civil War. And the reason behind the Bolsonaro goverment will be more a Junta, full of military, than a Chicago Boys carnival. Wait and see who will say the last word in such (bloody) theatrics.

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