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"Beyond Meat" Is A Big Broccoli Psyops
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After an epic search for one of the ten Teremok restaurants in Moscow that serve the Немясо (Beyond Meat) patty…

… I finally found one and sampled it.

It was OK, I guess. Quite edible. Might even be good with condiments.

But it tastes *nothing* like meat, contra MSM pundits. Consequently, I am now convinced that the International Veganry conspiracy is real and employs shills.

Seriously, we are to believe “scientists” spent “years” and “millions of dollars” creating/”perfecting” this rubbery vegetable thing?!

The CEO of Teremok is an incredibly based and redpilled man, who can be viewed as Russia’s equivalent of Chick-fil-A’s Dan Cathy.

But I don’t think his Немясо experiment is going to go anywhere. I would suggest that he instead bring back the black Teriyaki bliny.

The Western world is another story. About a couple of years ago on Razib Khan’s blog, I predicted that meat-eating would be the target of the next big moral crusade.

What I got wrong:

  1. I thought it’d occur over the next few decades, not less than a couple of years years.
  2. I thought it’d be driven by concerns over animal sentience, as opposed to climate change hysteria.

In this context, it will be very interesting to see whether Beyond Meat takes off or whether it flops despite the attempts to pepper over its inherent blandness. Its main constituency are, after all, carnivores who want to signal their woke credentials, but are too addicted to meat to go clean vegetarian or vegan. But certainly there are also plenty of factors in its favor, what with many Western state institutions beginning to remove meat from canteens and even talk of taxes on red meat in countries like Germany.

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Food, Humor, Moscow, The AK 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. Someone was recently banned from twitter for telling a vegan that he was a scientist, working on making artificial jackfruit from beef.

    So, meat-eating is now a subject one cannot joke about in earshot of the wokoharam.

    • LOL: Blinky Bill
  3. Mr. Hack says:

    In my neck of the woods when you talk about “meatless” patties, it’s ususally a soy product, enhanced with other vegetables (carrots, onions, mushrooms, seeds). They’re okay once in a while for a change of pace, but wont take the place of a good beef or turkey patty. The best that I’ve had can be purchased at Trader Joe’s that are an Indian version, packed with spices, etc. Although it’s good to see that you’re out and about visiting the local restaurants, wasn’t there anything more on the menu to write about?

    “Black Teriyaki blini”??

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  4. @Mr. Hack

    I am not really in the business of doing restaurant reviews. Beyond Meat is marketed as a product that mimics the texture and taste of real meat, hence was of some futuristic interest.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Gall
    , @Mr. Hack
  5. So pro-vegan, anti-meat propaganda is finding its way to Russia as well? I also question whether the CEO of any company that produces and promotes vegan “meat” is really “based”. Sounds like NWO type stuff to me.

    Making anti-gay statements in a country that is pathologically anti-gay is not really what I’d call “based”, I’d just call that fitting in with cultural expectations to promote his products to Russians.

  6. @Brexit Now

    What’s wrong with making vegan products available? Did having teriyaki bliny also make Goncharov a weeaboo?

    He verbally assaulted McFaul, and has just Liked and RETWEETED the following Tweet.

    That is very based.

  7. I suspect the reason animal welfare isn’t the main driver of the meat-free agenda is because it’s well known that animal welfare in most non-Western, particularly non-white countries is terrible to non-existent and therefore making the issue about animal welfare is considered to be borderline racism by many on the left, especially considering food is often sourced from all over the world any way.

    Much easier to just make the agenda about climate change, then they can just continue to blame Western whites for the problem like they always do.

    • Agree: kiel
  8. Dmitry says:
    @Brexit Now

    This is reporting about some very bourgeois, “gay Moscow hipster fast food restaurant”.

    Generally, Karlin is trying to report maybe an important cultural news story of the last few years: Moscow/Saint-Peterburg is now a world center for hipsters.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  9. @Brexit Now

    Vaguely meat-shaped vegetable patties are traditional Russian cuisine, so really nothing hipster or woke here, the CEO is just doing market research in a no-brainer area for expansion.

  10. @Brexit Now

    Anyone who favorably retweets Mr. Karlin can only be based.

    Disagreers will be shot. People who mark this as Troll will be shot again.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
  11. Dan Hayes says:
    @Dmitry

    Dmitry:

    I believe that Tel Aviv enjoys the hands-down honor of being the world’s premier gay hipster enclave!

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  12. Cow slaughter will be ended!

    • LOL: Thorfinnsson
    • Replies: @songbird
  13. Thomm says:

    I still fail to see what the innovation in Beyond Meat even is.

    I mean, those Morningstar sausages have been around for 20+ years. They taste good, but are not identical to pork sausages, plus should not be eaten as they are made of soy.

    How is Beyond Meat anything better than those Morningstar sausages?

  14. @Dmitry

    Teremok is more “fast casual”, and its certainly neither gay nor hipster – it is Russia’s Chick-fil-A.

    Gay/hipster = Receptor Cafe, Jagannath, etc. (Used to be Jean-Jacques but they’ve faded off the radar).

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
    , @Dmitry
  15. @Anatoly Karlin

    Don’t give hipsters a bad name. Jagganath is gay hippie. Also not very good, but at least also not obviously a cult, unlike Lovehut.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  16. Dmitry says:
    @Dan Hayes

    Obviously, gay Tel Aviv is a marketing policy to attract tourism and to improve the international image of Israel. I haven’t seen any gay couples in the streets in Tel Aviv, but I saw a lot of rainbow flags on the streets and along the promenade.

    I noticed in 2018 that Tel Aviv was already attracting a lot of groups of hipster tourists from places like Moscow, but the city is still at least 10 years away from being adequate to become a hipster centre.

    If we are honest, Tel Aviv is only on level with Krasnodar.

    At the moment, Tel Aviv buildings too third-world, dirty, polluted, noisy, etc. Hipsters pretend they want historical authenticity, etc, but mainstream hipsters also want things to be clean and orderly for them (they are very bourgeois in their souls).

    Central Moscow became textbook hipster paradise now, and even with low prices which can attract young hipster tourists from the West (young hipsters do not have so much income).

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  17. @Thomm

    Yeah, supposedly they put in a lot of effort to improve the flavor and texture, including fake blood created from bacteria.

  18. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Of course, this is hipster. If we want to falsify this, we can ask on Twitter to Goncharov if he wants to open his restaurants in Chelyabinsk or Tagil, and wait to see if it happens.

    Menu presented on wooden boards, food served in brown clay bowls, Beyond Meat vegan patty, light bulbs in modernist shades which hang down on long wire from the ceiling, small seats with long wooden legs, bare brick walls.

  19. Nah, beyond meat is simply another replay of we-work.

    A pump and dump scam designed to separate gullible investors from their money.

    • LOL: Denis
    • Replies: @Denis
  20. songbird says:

    How much does this thing cost in Russia? I have heard about $14 in NYC.

    Seems like something that appeals to hipsters – great if you can make money off it, but that is how I would classify it: a monetization of smugness, or virtue-signaling. No mass appeal.

    A real threat to meat-eating will only come when it is possible to surpass chicken in both flavor and price – a difficult task. And a true ZOG-burger would be one made out of crickets, IMO, as bugs are key to humiliation.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Dmitry
  21. Denis says:

    I fucking knew it, that shit is no substitute for real meat, all the people who eat it unironically are limp-wristed faggots.

  22. Dmitry says:
    @The Big Red Scary

    Don’t give hipsters a bad name.

    Hipsters are not a bad thing – they are quite interesting as they are terribly conformists, but they successfully raise the standard of food almost everywhere they live.

    For example, did Italian espresso machines (and calling the staff “baristas”) for coffee exist widely in America, before Starbucks? The coffee before this, was only from a filter machine?

  23. songbird says:
    @Brown Boiii

    Nice to know that if the Hindu-supremacists take over the world, we can still eat bison and water-buffalo.

    Although too many Hindus are vegetarians for me to feel confident about it.

    • Replies: @Brown Boiii
  24. Denis says:
    @Duke of Qin

    I still find it amazing how many people fell for wework.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  25. @songbird

    400 rubles = $6.20 for the Beyond Meat patty dish.

  26. “Beyond Meat” Is A Big Broccoli Psyops

    Gee, I wondered what happened to Q-Anon.

  27. G. Poulin says:

    What is the green stuff in the bowl, with the dollop of sour cream on it? Some kind of veggie borscht? Doesn’t look too appetizing.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  28. @Denis

    What ….. WeWork was like IWG , except WeWork decided on cyber-buzz instead of profitability.

  29. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    Meat will soon be possible to grow in vats and it will taste (and be chemically and structurally) the same as natural meat.

    Probably – I guess? – for the first 20 years, it will be mainly bourgeois hipsters only who can pay more for this product, and call it “ethical meat”.

    But with enough economies of scale, to reduce costs, perhaps one day it will be the choice of fried chicken even of proletarian African Americans in Texas?

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @Daniel Chieh
    , @songbird
  30. @G. Poulin

    It’s possibly my absolute favorite soup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorrel_soup

    • Agree: Haruto Rat
    • Replies: @E
  31. Dumbo says:

    Supposedly the innovation of Beyond Meat is that it “bleeds”. Beet juice, or something like that. In terms of flavor, it’s not very different from other substitutes. And certainly not the best I tried.

    I don’t really understand this thing. If you’re a vegetarian, meaning that you also eat eggs and dairy, there’s plenty to eat without the need to mimic meat.

    If you’re a vegan, I guess it’s harder, but still why the need to eat “meatless” meat? In that case, just try the real thing once in a while. Maybe one day they will create cow meat in labs from stem cells and everyone will be happy.

  32. Dumbo says:
    @Dmitry

    To be fair the “real” chicken nuggets at MacDo are so heavily processed that it is almost as if they came from a lab anyway.

  33. Thomm says:

    It is surprising that the enviro-nuts don’t go after the one thing that will make the biggest difference in US meat consumption :

    Get rid of corn and meat subsidies.

    Cheap, nitrate-laden quasi-meat in America exists because corn is subsidized, then meat is subsidized again. The people who benefit from corn and beef subsidies are not a voting block the left can win anyway (and the left hates them).

    Simple removal of these subsidies will move meat to the market price, and also reduce consumption of nitrate-laden fast-food meats while prices of grass-fed premium meats will not change.

    Oh, eating hot dogs and going to McD drive through is ‘part of our culture’, as are, apparently, cancer, obesity, and diabetes.

    Bah.. people will change accordingly. The enviro-nuts can become useful for once and fight corn subsidies.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  34. @Dmitry

    Meat will soon be possible to grow in vats and it will taste (and be chemically and structurally) the same as natural meat.

    This is likely impossible in the near future for certain meat products, as the actual structure of meat requires specific environmental stresses(e.g. muscles need to be stretched and exercised). For heavily processed or reconstituted meats, that might not matter as much admittedly.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  35. iffen says:

    AK, the next time you post pictures from a restaurant, can you post a picture of a decent looking dinner companion? I’m getting a little worried about you. Hell, get one of those Ukrainian hos if you have to that we read about all the time.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  36. @iffen

    The sorrel soup looks like an excellent dinner companion.

    • Replies: @iffen
  37. iffen says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Granted, they could both be very tasty, but it’s not the same.

  38. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    I agree: lab-grown will win in the end. One reason is that it is basically dual-purpose R&D. You research how to make edible simulacrums of flesh and you are halfway to making artificial blood and organs.

    Not really to my taste, but the book The Space Merchants (1952) by Frederik Pohl and CM Kornbluth, which is considered classic sci-fi, had a funny concept called “Chicken Little.” It was a wordplay on a classic European folktale about a chicken called Chicken Little (at least in America) that thinks the sky is falling. Anyway, in this case it was a giagantic, cancerous blob of chicken that grew in an underground vat and had to be continuously harvested for food with chainsaws, lest it outgrow its confines:

    Scum-skimming wasn’t hard to learn. You got up at dawn. You gulped a breakfast sliced not long ago from Chicken Little and washed it down with Coffiest. You put on your coveralls and took the cargo net up to your tier. In blazing noon from sunrise to sunset you walked your acres of shallow tanks crusted with algae. If you walked slowly, every thirty seconds or so you spotted a patch at maturity, bursting with yummy carbohydrates. You skimmed the patch with your skimmer and slung it down the well, where it would be baled, or processed into glucose to feed Chicken Little, who would be sliced and packed to feed people from Baffinland to Little America.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Dmitry
  39. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    To the extent it’s not technically impossible, then I assume they will apply a lot of effort to try to replicate the texture – it will be such a vast business opportunity, and all possible resources and ingenuity will therefore be applied.

    For example, imagine if your company can succeed in replicating texture of something like Bluefin tuna sashina and sell it in Japan; for the company which can do this, it would be like having a money printing machine, or winning lottery tickets every week.

    In video reports of the last year, some companies are investing in trying to make “authentic steak”. At 7:00 in the video he says it tastes almost like authentic steak already (of course, it must be much more expensive for now)

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  40. neutral says:

    It will be only a matter of time until the SJWs ban meat consumption. It will start with the “lets have a conversation about meat” from fringe outlets, to the NYT endorsing it, to governments passing laws. The final attempt will be to force all nations to ban their use as well, a bit like the current homosexual crusade. Based on the speed of gay marriage and transgender soldiers and toilets I think all of this will happen within 10 years.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  41. @Dmitry

    That’s pretty much hype.

    A lot of things are not technically impossible but its unlikely that it’ll ever be within range of affordability to grow muscle cells and then attempt to precisely damage and grow it in the range of years, as compared to just growing a cow.

    As a general rule, manmade solutions have higher thoroughput but also much higher inefficiencies than biological solutions, e.g. internal combustion engine vs muscle:

    https://auto.howstuffworks.com/question527.htm

    A gallon of gasoline (about 4 liters) contains about 31,000 calories. If a person could drink gasoline, then a person could ride about 912 miles on a gallon of gas (about 360 km per liter). Considering that a normal car gets about 30 miles per gallon, that’s pretty impressive!

    There’s actually a paper on this which I could find, but its pretty much a consistent pattern throughout nature.

    • Replies: @songbird
    , @Dmitry
    , @Bill Jones
  42. @Dumbo

    I tried Beyond Meat a few months ago, after they went public. I didn’t like it; it’s dry like textured soy protein and not even close to meat in flavor, so I don’t really get the hype. If we’re talking vegetarian/vegan burgers, those with black beans are much better, IMO. If we’re talking sausages, those made with gluten or a blend of gluten and tofu (Tofurky or even Field Roast brand names) are hands-down the best in terms of flavor and texture, especially Tofurky.

    • Replies: @songbird
  43. songbird says:
    @Chet Bradley

    IMO, something like black pudding or blood sausage would probably be easiest to manufacture, from the standpoint of texture.

  44. songbird says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    A gallon of gasoline (about 4 liters) contains about 31,000 calories.

    I dislike the language they use here, because it will confuse people with some knowledge of chemistry, but who didn’t learn that food calories are what in chemistry would be called kilocalories.

  45. I thought it’d be driven by concerns over animal sentience, as opposed to climate change hysteria.

    No seasoned anti-Semite would ever have agreed.

    In terms of humaneness, Jewish slaughtering is an absolute disgrace compared to traditional rural European customs.

    And if we make the (plausible) statement that the Jews run or at least dominate the Western elites, and create to a larger degree the mores that flow down to Shit Libs and SWPLs, then it makes sense that the businesses wouldn’t care less about animals, sentient or not. Of course they’ll pick “climate change” instead, because that more easily ties in with other cartels, cabals, and gimmicks. Animal welfare, even where valid, does not easily tie in with all the other globalist-capitalist devilry. An anti-Semite would have guessed climate change hysteria.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  46. Cortes says:

    Has any butcher/meat retailer “reached out” to the virtue-signal sector with introductory offers?

    “Fed up feeling weak? Try one of our Meat Starter Packs for a great-tasting protein-rich fry-up breakfast this weekend! Yumtastic!”

    I’d try one.

  47. @neutral

    Much of this transgender stuff – especially as it applies to kids – is inherently far crazier than banning meat consumption, so why not.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  48. Mr. Hack says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Well, you’ve done video game reviews, book reviews, film reviews & travelogues, besides your more serious stuff – you’re so limited and one dimensional. 🙂 (just kidding). I think that you’ve digressed a few times within some of your travelogues and done some restaurant reviews. Admit it, you’re a foodie at heart, and an occasional one would be fun, and I’m sure that many of your readers would like it too. I’ve noticed that whenever the topic of food comes up, the comments seem to increase too.

    хороший аппетит!

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  49. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “Steak” from that startup tastes “almost the same” as a real one (at least if we believe that journalist in a Wall Street Journal who made the video for YouTube).

    So it probably doesn’t require “precisely damaging muscle cells” to reproduce the flavour/texture of steak.

    It doesn’t look at all like real steak though, which could be a barrier.

    damage and grow it in the range of years, as compared to just growing a cow.

    In theory, it should be possible to eventually produce more cheaply.

    Only a small proportion of energy consumed by a cow, is converted into the production of its muscles. Living cow also uses far more space, than the space used by its muscles. Cows also need a couple of years to grow, while the muscle cells for the meat can be grown in the lab in a few weeks.

    I found now a paper published by the owners of that Israeli startup which makes that steak. They say the main cost are the growth factors.

    Cost is probably the key hurdle, as clean meat borrows tools from the expensive and heavily regulated field of regenerative medicine, and applies them in the food industry, which has one of the lowest margins of profit. The main expenditures of clean meat production are biomaterials and their purity assurance, human resources, facilities and measurement tools. Specht (2019) estimates that 55–95% of the production cost could be attributed to media use, and that 99% of the media cost can be attributed to Growth factors. Her review discusses different scenarios for cost reduction. While growth factors (GFs) are costly biomaterials, due to protein purification (Van der Gucht, 2018), their contribution to tissue engineering is invaluable. Replacing purified GFs with GF-producing cells is possible, however may complicate the regulation of GF concentration, as experimental parameters can influence GF expression levels in these cells. Two alternative approaches are to produce these molecule at a lower grade of purification (or without purification), or to generate inexpensive analogs of these molecules. Customized bioreactors need to be developed and optimized for clean meat production, to improve the efficiency of media use, and recycle main media components (Moritz et al., 2015; Specht et al., 2018; Stephens et al., 2018a).

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsufs.2019.00046/full#F1

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  50. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    One weird thing (which is not foreseen in that science fiction quote), is that in the future they will probably mix together cells of different animal species, into a new meat, to create new flavours.

    In that paper above, published by the owners of that startup which tries to replicate steak, they are already dreaming about more sinister and Frankenstein meat.

    From a culinary perspective, fine-tuning of meat components is difficult in live animals, and is achieved by selecting specific breeds and following complex feeding protocols (Smith et al., 2009). In clean meat, cells are cultured in-vitro in a customizable and controlled platform. The simple and precise manipulation of the cell microenvironment could be used to fine-tune meat traits. In addition, combinations of cells from different species may give rise to new and unprecedented flavors.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsufs.2019.00046/full#F1

  51. @Thomm

    The main “innovation” is soy leghemoglobin, an iron-containing protein in legumes. This is reportedly identical to animal heme, and thus helps provide a more meat-like flavor. Not that I would know, since obviously I will never consume this despicable product. Impossible Foods has implanted the soy gene in question into yeast, allowing for mass production of plant-based heme.

    A less remarkable, but still novel innovation is the use of beet juice to approximate the color of beef juice (caused by myoglobin).

    Beyond Meat and its competitors are also marketing their evil products as having a taste and texture similar to meat, whereas previous plant patties generally were marketed as vegetarian products.

    Lastly, the climate change hysteria has provided fertile ground for hyping these criminal products.

    • Replies: @Lot
  52. Dmitry says:
    @songbird

    research how to make edible simulacrums of flesh and you are halfway to making artificial blood and organs

    Although lab grown meat vastly more simple and easy, than the ambitious goals of tissue engineering.

    Unlike tissue engineering for medical purposes, lab meat doesn’t have to function at all. The lab grown meat’s arrangement of the cells will be a pretty random and useless mess of cells, when viewed from a functional purpose – these cells just have to taste ok when you cook or fry them.

    I guess the main challenge will be reducing its cost (they say the main challenge in this is reducing the cost of the growth factors, or “to generate inexpensive analogs of these molecules”).

    • Replies: @songbird
  53. @Dumbo

    Eggs and dairy don’t have the texture or flavor of meat, which a lot of vegetarian faggots state that they miss.

    There are also vegan derelicts.

    And lastly, there are losers who aren’t prepared to adopt full dietary homosexuality but have been cucked and zogged into thinking they need to reduce their meat intake.

  54. @Thomm

    Nitrites are added to cured meat to prevent the growth of botulinum toxin. The practice of doing so is as old as the art of sausage making. One can find many references to “curing salts” in the surviving cookery works of classical antiquity.

    If corn rises to the market price livestock farmers will simply substitute other grains. Corn is a much smaller portion of livestock feed in the rest of the world, but meat prices are not substantially different. And in any case most cattle consume a majority of their energy from grass and the grain-share of their feed has declined in this century owing to improved efficiency in forage and silage production.

    Grass-finished beef is of course a different story, as foregoing grain feed in the weeks prior to slaughter means sacrificing a lot of yield and marbling.

    • Replies: @Thomm
    , @animalogic
  55. I tried one bite – that was more than enough for me. Karlin is too generous. It tastes like flakes of compressed cardboard, soaked in a weak beef broth and salt brine.

    God damn people must be getting dumber if they actually eat that shit. I’d rather eat black beans or some other vegetarian dish than this disgusting, murderous concoction. This processed stuff will kill you over time.

    Somewhere, in an office, they are laughing heartily: “Damn, the goyim really are more stupid than we though!”

  56. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    When in Rome be like the Romans:

    https://www.valbrookdiner.com/

    Following a colonoscopy: twin cheese burger deluxe, coke, beer and cheese cake. Although not recommended right after said procedure, healthy types can do okay with this first meal – especially when eaten slowly.

    Overheard Ukrainian spoken in the next booth. I wonder how well is “whistleblower” Eric Ciaramella’s Ukrainian? He’s described as a CIA Ukraine expert. Reminded of Kevin Rothrock doing translation for some Intel dude involved with Russian issues.

  57. @Dumbo

    If you’re a vegan, I guess it’s harder, but still why the need to eat “meatless” meat? In that case, just try the real thing once in a while. Maybe one day they will create cow meat in labs from stem cells and everyone will be happy.

    One day, we will be eating vegans. It will be a public service. I’ll bet the vegans will not be happy. The rest of us, however, will be happy.

    • LOL: Gall
    • Replies: @animalogic
  58. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    Mickey, it’s never too late. With your already existant stellar background, all you need to do is learn a modicum of Ukrainian and you would surpass any of your competitor colleagues and could asume an ambasadorship to Ukraine. Plenty of Ukrainian schools just in the New York area:

    [MORE]

    New York
    School of Ukrainian Studies – Albany, Shkola Ukrainoznavstva – Albany, NY | Victor Holovashchenko, 12 Pine Forest Lane, Clifton Park, NY 12065
    School of Ukrainian Studies – Buffalo, NY | Nataliya Savka, 2193 N. French Road Apt. 2, Getzville, NY 14068
    School of Ukrainian Studies – Rochester, NY | Joanna Polianska-Virlo, 1252 Stafford Crescent, Webster, NY 14580
    School of Ukrainian Studiesa – Samopomich, New York, NY | Ivan Makar, P.O.Box 1481 New York, NY 10276
    School of Ukrainian Studies – SUMA, New York, NY | Iryna Chuyan, 300 E 6th St., Apt. 2 New York, NY 10003
    School of Ukrainian Studies – Syracuse, NY | Svitlana Biggs, 109 Shetland Pl., Warners, NY 13164
    Ukrainian Heritage School – Syracuse, NY | Maryana Masna, 4963 Manor Hill Dr, Syracuse, NY 13215
    School of Ukrainian Studies – Lindenhurst, NY | Izolda Maksym, 224 N 4th St, Lindenhurst, NY 11757
    School of Ukrainian Studies – Yonkers, NY | Svitlana Khmurkovska, 1595 Nepperhan Ave. Yonkers, NY 10703
    School of Ukrainian Studies – Kerhonkson, NY | Bohdan Uhryn, 1675 Berme Rd. Kerhonkson, NY 12446

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  59. songbird says:
    @Dmitry

    It would be a pretty big deal if they could make blood. Seems simple – human red blood cells don’t even have nuclei. But they’ve been trying forever to come up with substitutes. One roadblock is that it is difficult to test blood substitutes on people. Say you go in for a big operation or are in an accident, you probably want the real stuff and not something experimental.

    I can imagine other things that would be game changers, without necessarily building complicated structures. Like, if you could grow clonal lines of white blood cells outside the body. Perhaps, modifying them in some way to make them especially effective at killing cancer, or delivering drugs to certain cells.

    A lot of people have type-I diabetes. I think making insulin producing cells that wouldn’t be targeted by the immune system and some mechanism to monitor blood sugar levels and control them wouldn’t be too hard. Could be partly artificial.

    The liver might be something not too hard either. It can basically regenerate on its own, except for scarring.

    I don’t know now if you have ever seen them make the extracellular matrix for ear cartilage, but it is really something quite amazing. Probably did it about 20 years ago or more. They implant this framework in the back of a special mouse, and it makes the matrix. After a small timeframe they take it out, and cover it in the patient’s own skin, and it looks natural.

    Certain things they might try to tackle by layering different lines of cells with a 3d printer.

  60. Thomm says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I beg to differ. Fast-food beef is far more expensive in many overseas locations than in the US. For example, in the UK, beef is very expensive. Even Australia wasn’t as cheap as one might expect.

    And in any case most cattle consume a majority of their energy from grass and the grain-share of their feed has declined in this century owing to

    If that were the case, ‘grass fed’ beef would not be so heavily marketed and more expensive in America. I guarantee that fast-food beef in America (i.e. found in the Quarter Pounder, Whopper, at Five Guys, etc.). is not grass-fed.

  61. Lot says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Agree.

    I tried the Beyond Burgers when they were released, cooking them at home.

    They tasted great, and very close to beef. Probably you couldn’t tell at all with normal Whopper condiments and bun.

    The experience pan frying it was also very close: 2 minutes per side, fake blood and red to start, ends up brown on the outside with specs of black, but soft and slightly pink inside.

    Frankly it’s a complete technological marvel, and nothing like previous generations of fake meat, which are not even close.

    I ate a total of 3 2-packs of the burgers, then gave it up for two reasons: more expensive than high quality beef, and less healthy. There’s a gigantic amount of saturated fat, and none of the natural mix of aminos and omega 3s you get from lean grass fed beef burgers.

    • Replies: @Chet Bradley
  62. @Dmitry

    Only a small proportion of energy consumed by a cow, is converted into the production of its muscles. Living cow also uses far more space, than the space used by its muscles. Cows also need a couple of years to grow, while the muscle cells for the meat can be grown in the lab in a few weeks.

    This is true, and one of the main arguments for genetically cultured meat. However, I still feel that the cost differential will be such that even in spite of the wasted effort to grow uneaten organs, it’ll still end up not quite matching just growing cows.

    We’ll see though, if they can succeed at the scaffold to create effective steak, I’m all for them.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @animalogic
  63. Half-Jap says:

    I am vegan, but these fake meat products taste nothing like the original, and I was a nearly pure carnivore for most of my life. Maybe the appearance is similar, and that’s about it. I make my own fake ‘burgers’ but they aren’t even meant to taste the same, just have a kind of texture with the various flavors of whatever I felt like sticking in at the time. Even my brother enjoys this stuff and he still prefers his steak cooked bloody in the inside.

    Another, even more disturbing aspect is that these processed products may include nasty chemicals and/or GMOs hidden under the friendly touchy feely labels.

    I also loath the corporate promotion of veganism, like this fake burger, which only makes people feel good about themselves while continuing on in their ecocidal ways. This stuff doesn’t really promote a healthy way of living vegan (which can be pretty dangerous if one doesn’t eat certain key foods for the nutrients, like natto for the B12, and it’s definitely not for all human subspecies afaik). The corporate promotion of this reminds me of the movement to normalize infinite genders and other such crap.

    It’s a way of life, and by living well one invites others to try some of it, going vegetarian or just having no meat for a day or so a month or week, etc.

    • Replies: @Liza
  64. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Yeah, there’s a reason why ‘Resnik’ is the second-best Jewish surname after ‘Levin’.

  65. @Mikhail

    I wonder how well is “whistleblower” Eric Ciaramella’s Ukrainian? He’s described as a CIA Ukraine expert.

    Nobody seriously speaks so-called ‘Ukranian’ in Ukraine. Even their presidents need a crib sheet when forced to speak it in public.

    It’s like thinking that being a ‘Scotland expert’ requires fluency in Scots.

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  66. WHAT says:

    TLDR, vegans are godless subhuman scum, day of the steak is coming.

    • Agree: Gall, Thorfinnsson
    • Replies: @Brown Boiii
  67. Gall says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    They should really call it Beyond Crap for truth in advertising. My wife occasionally likes to go vegan so I thought I’d try it in my spaghetti sauce. It actually tastes worse than tofu and I can’t imagine anything tasting that bad unless it came straight from the toilet.

    If this the future of veganism than I’ll stick to being a carnivore.

    Remember Der Furher was a vegan, non-smoker who never drank. Who seems to be the person these veganazis are trying to emulate.

    Hey Anatoly if you want my recipe for my Bison/Buffalo Chili respond to this post.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @scg16121
  68. Broccoli can be delicious.

    Its bad fame is because it’s the first choice of virtue signalers who can’t cook, don’t care to learn but force their cooking on others because suffering is good.

    I won’t be offering any recipes though – you ought not take advice from a pervert who cooks pork with buckwheat, sour cream and green paprika. 😛

  69. Exile says:

    The health and fertility consequences of Bugmen cancelling meat hasten Human victory.

    Hail Humanity, crush the Bugs, make mine rare.

  70. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Dumbo

    I don’t really understand this thing. If you’re a vegetarian, meaning that you also eat eggs and dairy, there’s plenty to eat without the need to mimic meat.

    I don’t think this stuff is aimed at vegetarians. The idea is to brow-beat and humiliate normal people (especially men) into eating it. Because if you refuse to eat it you’re deliberately killing the planet and you’re basically a Nazi.

    Women will just love forcing weak men to eat this stuff. And there are plenty of men these days pathetic enough to do so.

  71. @Gall

    Ok, sure, let’s hear it.

    • Replies: @Gall
  72. Mr. Hack says:
    @anonymous coward

    Nobody seriously speaks so-called ‘Ukranian’ in Ukraine. Even their presidents need a crib sheet when forced to speak it in public.><

    More of your fantasy, unsubstantiated BS. The only Ukrainian president who had any difficulties in speaking Ukrainian, was Yanukovych, from Dumbass, and he wasn't Ukrainian, but some kind of Russified Polish/Buelorussian hybred.

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
  73. Mr. Hack says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    All of this talk about meat vs meatless food products brings me back to my childhood. Way before anybody paid any attention to “vegetarianism” or even knew what soybeans were, my mother made the most delicious “vegetarian” patties imaginable. Let me preface this to state that my family were unabashed carnivores, on both sides. My parents Ukrainian genes adapted well to their newly found country’s decided preference for steaks and roasts. Chicken? All of the time. Even exotic meats like venison and pheasant were on the menu several times yearly. So, I have no idea why my mother came-up with this “vegetarian” delight? Perhaps, it offered her an opportunity to experiment with her newly acquired primitive food processor? Basically, put a bunch of califlower into your food processor, add freshly diced onion bits, bread crumbs, salt & pepper to taste and mix in one large raw egg to the batter and blend away. It’s really quite simlar to the ubiquitous “kotlyeta” found in most Slavic lands. Oncc you’ve reached the desired consistency, hand shape the cauliflower “kotlyetas” in the form of a large hamburger and fry away on a frying pan. Great stuff if you’re occasionally looking for an alternative to meat products.

  74. @Mr. Hack

    There is, of course, a tradition to meatless products such as in traditional Buddhism. I actually appreciate the various gluten based “mock chicken” or “mock abalone” well enough, and later Morningstar patties. They don’t particularly resemble meat in any substantial way, but they have interesting flavors and textures on their own.

    The sentience based argument(or kindness) tends to hold sway with women and it might be why your mother went vegetarian. I believe that there are some numbers which find that women are overwhelmingly more likely to be vegetarian, which given their relatively lower blood cell count vs men, would seem particularly risky.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  75. Mr. Hack says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I think that you misunderstood me. My family, including my mother (perhaps even specifically my mother) were meat eaters. That’s why I wrote:

    So, I have no idea why my mother came-up with this “vegetarian” delight?

    I still enjoy eating meat products, but occassionally like to go vegetarian for a meal or a day. During Great Lent (Eastertime), I fast more and typically avoid meat products. During my youth, my family often practiced “meatless Fridays” and we weren’t Catholics either. Try the cauliflower cutlets and I’ll think that you’ll be pleasantly surprised. They’re not that difficult to make if you have a food processor – if you do, let me know what you think. Oh, I forgot to say that the cauliflower should be somewhat cooked already before blending.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  76. Liza says:
    @Half-Jap

    Another, even more disturbing aspect is that these processed products may include nasty chemicals and/or GMOs hidden under the friendly touchy feely labels.

    Yes. You can make a tasty, healthful burger from mashed beans and a few other things mixed together. However, vegetarian or meateater, most people are too damn lazy. I don’t know about Russia, but here, they are making kitchens more and more elaborate, with more and more devices in them, yet eating out is considered some kind of “human right” for everyone and the number of restaurants is alarmingly huge.

    Everybody – just learn to cook. From scratch. You like meat? If you visit the killing floor of a slaughterhouse or a confined animal operation (factory farm) without blinking an eye, you are an obligate carnivore. But a lot of people are pretty bothered by it. White people, anyway.

  77. @Mr. Hack

    Isn’t there an Orthodox tradition from fasting from meat as well?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Chet Bradley
  78. joannf says:

    Trying to mimic the taste of meat is foolish as it doesn’t taste of anything special really, it can actually be quite yucky – and mimicking the texture is not an easy task. It’s probably a waste of time to even try, as long as bozos like Karlin are not ashamed to ape the Michelin just to ‘prove’ it’s not their taste. Who would have thunk !
    Not hirsuite enough.

    Way more simple to just imagine, once in a lifetime, you’re really hungry because there’s not a thousand supermarket junk things to choose from, the animals are all extinct, yay ! Allah loves you for that !
    And yeah – you’ll eat what you get, even if it’s not meat – right ? So, the fuck get with it cause you’re not a carnivore, you’re a scavenger.

    That’s the way to go, and that’s the way it will be done, and if they’ll have to put you up against the wall or replace you because you insist on your paleo diet (even if you were way too cucky to defend the white race), then I bid you good riddance.
    Animal sentience is a subject too hard to understand for the human species in general, and by that two points are proven : that animals, even human ones, are sentient, and that sentience as such is overestimated.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @joannf
  79. Mr. Hack says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Sure there is Daniel. I have two friends that are Orthodox monks. They practice a strict vegetarian diet all year long. Sometimes we go out to eat at some really good vegetarian restaurants. They only recently started to include some fish products into their diet. I definitely think that there’s something to the fact that adding meat products to ones diet increases strength, and in the long term stamina too.

  80. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Main cost of beef/cows is apparently a large amount of land or space they require for living and feeding.

    So producing beef in Japan, where agricultural land cost is high, will be far more expensive than producing beef in Brazil, where land is comparatively cheap.

    On the other hand, main cost of lab grown meat for now, is the purchase cost of growth factors (which are currently strongly regulated and sold for use in regenerative medicine).

    So whether lab grown meat will be a food of bourgeois hipsters, or something capable of feeding the proletariat, will apparently depend on whether the cost of growth factors can be fallen, or if it will be possible “to generate inexpensive analogs of these molecules”.

    The Chinese government seems to be a main funding of Israeli startups for growing lab meat.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-israel-trade-deal-lab-grown-meat-veganism-vegetarianism-a7950901.html

    Presumably, at least, Chinese officials believe the eventual cost of lab meat can be lower than normal meat, and suitable for feeding the proletariat.

    I doubt Chinese officials would be interested in lab meat, if they think the eventual cost will still be higher than the cost of normal meat (the market for some kind of expensive bourgeois hipster product – or “indulgence”, which is paid by bourgeois hipsters to ease their conscience – probably is not an important priority for them).

    Although it’s also possible China’s government are interested in these experiments as a potential form of future import substitution or food security, as they import vast amounts their meat currently.

    • Replies: @Liza
    , @Daniel Chieh
  81. Liza says:
    @Dmitry

    You know what was in Soylent Green wafers, don’t you? It’s headed this way, folks. First get the hoi polloi accustomed to “lab meat” and then slide some dead human bodies into there.

    Or is my imagination running away with me? How else do we (1) deal with the many corpses that are going to ensue from the next round of active totalitarianism and (2) feed the remainder of the population whose turn at the guillotine has not come up yet?

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  82. @Dmitry

    Presumably, at least, Chinese officials believe the eventual cost of lab meat can be lower than normal meat, and suitable for feeding the proletariat.

    There’s a lot of reasons why China would do something, often tangential to the original goal and it might even be something akin to a large bribe. But it should be noted that China’s not exactly aiming for the highest quality so if they end up with something that’s suitable for reprocessing such as sausage, it would be sufficient. Steak on the other hand, is difficult enough that high quality cows are candidates for cloning just to get the right shape(and that in itself, is an expensive proposition).

    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2016/07/06/high-steaks-how-texas-scientists-are-building-better-beef-one-cloned-cow-at-a-time/

    There’s also immunity costs to consider; cows naturally “take care” of their own cells, while something separate doesn’t produce immune cells and therefore has to be raised in a sterile environment. All of the costs quite add up, and this has to be rivaled against technology can also just improve the animal itself, e.g. genetic engineering to reduce expenditure or increase efficiency of inputs. An example of the latter is an effort to improve the photosynthesis of plants:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26945781

    The frequency with which plants evolved C4 photosynthesis independently challenges researchers to unravel the genetic mechanisms underlying this convergent evolutionary switch. The conversion of C3 crops, such as rice, towards C4 photosynthesis is a long-standing goal. Nevertheless, at the present time, in the age of synthetic biology, this still remains a monumental task, partially because the C4 carbon-concentrating biochemical cycle spans two cell types and thus requires specialized anatomy.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  83. @songbird

    Hindus are gay and ain’t taking shit.

    Yea though, Nepali Hindus still do buffalo sacrifice.

    Most don’t kill buffalo because raised for milk.

  84. @WHAT

    Sikhs sentenced all cow killing butchers to death when they took Kashmir.

    That’s more what’s in store for you..

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @WHAT
  85. @Brown Boiii

    What is your opinion on genetically cultured beef? No full animal as we understand it would have been harmed in a scaffold-grown beef product.

    • Replies: @Brown Boiii
  86. @Mr. Hack

    Zelensky doesn’t speak Ukrainian.

    Poroshenko spoke it somewhat better, but it was a skill he learned very, very late in his life. (Unlike Zelensky, he has been in politics longer, and got used to doing pointless and demeaning tasks like being forced to speak so-called ‘Ukrainian’.)

    • LOL: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  87. @Daniel Chieh

    Aryans obv wouldn’t eat it and any country run on those principles would abhor it.

    Beyond that :shrug:

    Hard to say, the orders are against cow slaughter, I’m sure anyone looking to shed some blood can find a good enough linkage to do so.


    Muslims are lynched for cattle rustling and some untouchables *do* eat cows after they have died, hench untouchable.

    I think when you look at it from a cultural-religious perspective it becomes a non-issue in that no Dharmic person thinks can I eat beef if it’s lab-grown.

    Such a person should be shunned, no way to know until it happens.

    Personally fuck that shit.
    The idea of both beef & gun control is blasphemous.

  88. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    John Demers’ appearance on the 60 Minutes segment was for the purpose to mop up on Butina. No one was there to mop up on him.

    I think it’s commendable that you’ve never felt the need to adorn your own head with a “mop”. But that photo of you has to go…how long ago was it taken, Mickey? 🙂

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  89. Gall says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Brown 1 lb of Buffalo/Bison mixed with a diced Mayan onion in a frying pan.

    Mix in salt, Hot Ghost Peppers or Cayenne.

    Add one sliced Jalapeño and one red and one green pepper to the mix when the Bison is just about browned.

    Add corn niblets either one package frozen or one can drained.

    Add a handful of white mushrooms, several sliced tomatoes or one can of fire roasted tomatoes (either works well though I like the fire roasted ones better)

    Then add a package of Shelby’s chili mix and follow the directions on the package. If you used canned tomatoes then use less water.

    Let it simmer for about 20 minutes to a half an hour or use a slow cooker set at low for 3 hours.

    There ya go.

    Goes great with Fry Bread, Corn Bread, Biscuits or any kind of bread or crackers.

    Enjoy 🙂

    • Replies: @NobodyKnowsImADog
  90. joannf says:
    @joannf

    Try half-sentence by half-sentence. Easy does it.

    • LOL: AaronB
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  91. zimriel says:

    I hate this burger. Seriously, it is awful. I am sure it exists only as a means to schnooker people out of real beef.

    It used to be that a vegetarian – or even someone with an upset tummy – could order a bean burger instead. You knew you were getting beans. You WANTED beans that outing. Nowadays you can’t find one even if you were in the mood for it; you have to order this rubbery abomination instead.

  92. @joannf

    Might want to work on your aim, dear.

  93. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    Teremok sounds interesting. What else were you eating in that photo?

    I looked online and apparently Teremok had two locations in New York City, but they closed citing geopolitical hostility.

    Re Beyond Meat, I mentioned to Ben Sixsmith (who’s a vegetarian) that Dunkin’ Donuts has their fake sausage patties now and Twitter co-founder Biz Stone replied.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  94. @Daniel Chieh

    But eating coal : 10-12,000 BTU per pound for anthracite, is about 1/3 of the price so a much better diet.

    btw, given your proclivity to mix measurement systems, can I ask where in NASA do you work?

  95. @Liza

    And as always in the racist West, Blacks will be denied recognition for their ground breaking achievements.
    There will be no acknowledgment of their chowing down on Albino’s and the creation of Soylent White Cuisine.

    • LOL: Liza
  96. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    Yeah, that’s a lousy one. Dunno why it was put in place of the prior one. Will follow-up. Then again, who said it’s a beauty contest?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  97. Dmitry says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    something separate doesn’t produce immune cells and therefore has to be raised in a sterile environment. All of the costs

    I don’t know anything about food technology – but I’m not sure sterile environment inside a vat is an important cost. They state in the paper I linked above, that “55–95% of the production cost” for lab grown meat, is purchase price of growth factors.

    Here is an paper on the topic -.
    https://www.gfi.org/files/sci-tech/clean-meat-production-volume-and-medium-cost.pdf
    I didn’t read the paper – but it looks like most of the paper is discussing how to reduce the cost of the growth factors. So they think the growth factor molecules are the main problem in the cost.

    China would do something, often tangential to the original goal and it might even be something akin to a large bribe. But it should be noted that China’s not exactly aiming for the highest quality so if they end up with something that’s suitable for reprocessing such as sausage,

    “Future Meat Technologies” – claims they will produce the meat quantity of 4000 chickens, in one bioreactor, every 6 weeks. It sounds like something ideal as a cheap food to feed the proletariat, but not a high quality or “authentic” product which hipsters will accept.


    Listening to a video by the owner of “Future Meat Technologies” . From around 7:00 and he says his idea is to mass produce not muscle cells, but fibroblasts which double every 20 hours. He want to make more processed hybrid products, which will be mixed with vegetable proteins. (I guess for e.g. much Chinese cuisine, there is so much seasoning, people won’t notice).

  98. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    Your current photo is actually a good one, it just seems a bit dated? If it’s not dated, then you look good for your age. Kuzio definitely could benefit from seeking a new hair-dresser. 🙂

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  99. Half-Jap says:
    @Liza

    True enough; many of my generation cannot cook, and rarely can they even slaughter and clean what they eat. The conditions and treatment of food animals is indeed rather shocking, sometimes as bad as seeing the result of a drone strike. Compassion has gotten the better of me, as well as all other health benefits, to be vegan.
    Being in others’ face about it seems counter-productive, but there is a huge range of things one can cook and eat deliciously without any animal bits in them, and the deliciousness seems to invite them to at least reduce their animal consumption.
    Of course, I have little choice but cook, since almost all restaurants in Japan have gone fully carnivore, with not a dish that doesn’t have some animal in it, and somehow my salad costs more than a platter of meat—Damn market-distorting subsidies.

    • Agree: Liza
  100. JL says:

    Since Teremok is mainly a blini shop, it seems to me that a more appropriate dietary offering would be gluten-free, for which suitable substitutions can be found (buckwheat, rice), rather than fake meat.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @WHAT
  101. WHAT says:
    @Brown Boiii

    We of the white skin do not worship bovinae like subhumans do and actually know how to shoot, so I`m not very afraid of sikhs, sorry.

  102. WHAT says:
    @JL

    I`ve had buckwheat pasta a couple of times. It was confusing.

  103. @Mr. Hack

    So, I have no idea why my mother came-up with this “vegetarian” delight? Perhaps, it offered her an opportunity to experiment with her newly acquired primitive food processor?

    Because it is traditional Russian (and Ukrainian, since they’re the same thing) food, you stupid dumb fuck.

    Dumb Americans talking about ‘the old country’ is one of the most cringe-worthy moments known to man.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  104. eah says:

    Nothing wrong with broccoli, per se — 1/3 of the calories in broccoli are protein.

  105. Mr. Hack says:
    @anonymous coward

    Maybe a “smart Russian” like you can point out a Russian recipe on the internet that includes a recipe for the cauliflower “kotlyeta” that I remember my mother making? I googled in “Russian cauliflower recipes” and at the top of the list was “Best Russian Cauliflower recipes | Food Network UK” and guess what – not a single recipe for these cauliflower delights?…Since you’re so smart maybe you can direct me to just such a recipe, and BTW, what are they called in Russian??…

    • Replies: @JL
    , @anonymous coward
  106. JL says:
    @Mr. Hack

    What you’re probably looking for is called “Драники” and they are usually made with potato, or potato mixed with something else like zucchini or cauliflower. But you can use just about any vegetable.

    https://vkys.info/4139-draniki-iz-cvetnoj-kapusty.html

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  107. @Liza

    I don’t understand people who are so bothered by it, maybe just that people are now so demoralized that they can rationalize literal animals as being on the same moral plain as them? It seems to me the emotionally defective people capable of having genuine distress (as in, a real hysterical preoccupation) over the plight of uncomfortable cows are also the most likely to be ambivalent about their own people’s dispossession and annihilation. Human life and culture is just worth infinitely more than an animal’s life.

    I can see the truth in the moral arguments for treating animals as humanely as possible, but I still operate on a few basic premises which I find unimpeachable:

    i. Animals should be treated as humanely as possible so long as nothing of greater import than the animals is jeopardized by this.

    ii. Humans derive immense sensual and cultural enjoyment/fulfillment from the consumption of meat (as well as the use of animal products for other purposes), along with great health benefits (red meat is very, very good for you, sorry quacks/vegan shills).

    iii. The benefits humans gain from the consumption of animals far outweighs the value of the individual animals’ lives or necessary sufferings (the existence of the species themselves is a different calculation, but cows aren’t endangered precisely because we eat them).

    iv. Therefore, inhumane treatment of animals is justified if it is the only way to satisfy a reasonable demand for meat or other animal products (I’m not necessarily convinced that this is the case, however).

    • Replies: @Liza
  108. @Dave Pinsen

    The soup is sorrel soup, its probably my favorite soup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorrel_soup

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Dave Pinsen
  109. Mr. Hack says:
    @JL

    Close, but no cigar. I’m well aware of “Драники” and although related, they’re different. Besides the obvious difference that one is made of potato and the other from cauliflower, the potato ones have some cheese addition whereas the cauliflower ones, I believe perhaps had some flour in the mix. Also, the cauliflower ones were much thicker than the potato ones. that were much more like a thin pancake.

  110. Mr. Hack says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    “Green borshch” great in the early summer…if you can’t locate any sorrel, try using spinich as a substitute.

  111. Liza says:
    @Athletic and Whitesplosive

    I don’t understand people who are so bothered by it, maybe just that people are now so demoralized that they can rationalize literal animals as being on the same moral plain as them?

    I understand your arguments (honest), but they are abstract. There is really something goofy about people who would thump you or even call the police if you caused pain and injury to their darling cat or dog or even a pet pig – for example, by kicking them – yet feel not a thing for a non-pet animal being executed on a killing floor, or even the more “humane” on-the-farm methods by the farmer himself. And then there are the conditions on factory farms.

    When I was a child, more than 40 years ago, I lived on a farm and witnessed the killing of animals whose lives were as important to them as mine are to me, and participated in a bit of the “cleaning” of the corpses (the stench…). I hated all of it but waited til my late teens to quit meat. I can still walk, talk & chew gum, raise a family, and work hard at useful, productive, necessary tasks.

    Information can lead a mind to water, but only emotion can make it drink. This applies also to those who look away when white people are being exterminated. Have the last word. 🙂

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  112. @Mr. Hack

    Maybe try not searching in English?

    My God, the cringe is getting worse and worse. Stop before you give me a stroke.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  113. Mr. Hack says:
    @anonymous coward

    You’re the one resorting to blatant profanities in trying to buttress your own supposed knowledge and superiority. I can assure you that I have a good reading knowledge of Russian, so either put up or shut up.

  114. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    Based on that photo, Kooz would benefit from a cardio exercise regimen. As for the other matter, the Eurasia Review photo is actually more recent. A change in lifestyle (like diet) can make a dramatic difference for the better.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  115. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    Tell me more, I also have acquired the paunchy, round Slavic look (although I comb my hair frequently). 🙂

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  116. @Liza

    Chickens are evil but delicious birds.

    • Agree: songbird
  117. @Lot

    I did exactly the same, pan fried them per the instructions (well my wife did, I happily leave cooking duties to her). They tasted exactly nothing like beef, burger or not. They couldn’t even pass as chicken burger. And the texture wouldn’t fool anyone either. They tasted and felt like processed cardboard, even worse than soy meat and I didn’t think that was even possible.

    I’m not a big fan of those black bean/nut burgers (only eat those during fasting periods) but I find them at least 10 times more edible than the Beyond Meat abomination. At least they aren’t pretending to be something else than they are.

    My $.02.

    • Agree: Gall
    • Replies: @Lot
  118. @Daniel Chieh

    Isn’t there an Orthodox tradition from fasting from meat as well?

    Very much so. No meat and no dairy. The only animal products allowed are some shellfish, not even regular fish. This is a simplified version, the actual rules vary by calendar days. On some feast days fish is permitted, on some days not even oil is permitted. But these are the rules that monks would follow closely; for the regular people you observe as much as you can. I abstain from meat and dairy but eat fish; I would find it hard to function (given my lifestyle and activities) on such a restrictive diet, not to mention that it’s pretty hard in the US to find decent “lenten” food.

  119. Gall says:

    As a side note. It seems the IDF is capitalizing on this trend toward veganism:

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/vegan-washing-israel-veganism-palestinian-oppression/262707/

  120. One time, almost 30 years ago, I had an absolutely delicious veggie/”Vegan” burger at a health food cafe in San Diego. It was so good, I ordered a 2nd one, and ate that right there on the spot.

    The problem was that it literally cost more than meat. In 1991 or thereabouts, no one was willing to pay MORE for fake meat. But today? I think maybe they would. Which suggests this can be done.

  121. Lot says:
    @Chet Bradley

    It may be you subconsciously primed yourself not to like it.

    You said they tasted bad. Yet they are perfectly edible and mostly saturated fat plus salt and spices. Such a food should taste good if your taste buds are working OK.

    It may also have hit your uncanny valley disgust reflex.

  122. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I wonder if one of the Russian/Ukrainian diners in New York has it.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @utu
  123. Half-Jap says:
    @Mr. Hack

    The guy’s called “anonymous coward” so go figure lol.

    • Agree: Mr. Hack
  124. Mr. Hack says:
    @anonymous coward

    Wow, you’re quite the intelligent guy – thanks for the recipe!

    (your manner of communication is a bit rustic though, were you brought up in the backwoods somewhere?)…

  125. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    Tell me more, I also have acquired the paunchy, round Slavic look (although I comb my hair frequently)

    You acquired as opposed to having from the get go, meaning that it’s a quality of life issue. The same has been said of Slavic women – at least a good number of them. They weren’t always like that. The key is to be active and watch what you eat and how much.

  126. Medvedev says:

    “Beyond beef” costs $7.99 at Target and ~$10.00 on Amazon. Ground beef at the local store ~$3.50
    Why would anyone pay three times more for a questionable product instead of normal meat? When it doesn’t event taste like meat. All the hype is to get money out of your/hipsters’ pockets.

    If you want to reduce consumption of meat go with lentils, soy, beans, etc. Those are dead cheap.

    Remind me about ‘beyond meat’ when it costs half the price of a regular ground meat.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @jim jones
  127. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Medvedev

    Remind me about ‘beyond meat’ when it costs half the price of a regular ground meat.

    How long will it be before we see a push to impose punitive sales taxes on meat and/or subsidies for the fake meat? If people won’t voluntarily eat cardboard to stop global warming they will have to be compelled to do so.

    The first step will presumably be a massive propaganda campaign in schools.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  128. Dmitry says:
    @dfordoom

    Technology is already here, now, to grow real animal cells in a vat. To reduce prices, they might then mix the animal fat cells which are grown in a vat, with some plant proteins.

    But there is no need for completely plant substitutes for meat. See the comments above.

    To artificially create a steak (with real blood vessels, veins, and structure) is possible now, but extremely expensive.

    So, what will possibly happen to feed the proletariat, is something more primitive, where they grow from fibroblasts a lot of animal fat and protein cells in the vat – without a complicated structure. Then they might blend this real animal cells (grown in a vat) with some plant proteins to reduce the costs. Flavour should be the same as real meat, as it is just real animal fat and protein cells. But the problem will be the texture will not be structured in the same way.

  129. Dmitry says:

    Off topic,

    Congratulations for Karlin, he has been voted as one of the best blogs on intelligence.
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/my-blog-voted-most-accurate-media-outlet-on-intelligence-by-experts-on-cognitive-ability

  130. @Dave Pinsen

    Ask if they have green borscht / sorrel soup / shavelevy sup / щавелевый суп.

    My guess is most won’t have it.

    It’s not the most common soup even in Russia.

    Ofc almost all Russian diners will have borscht, and many of them will have ukha (a fish soup) and solyanka (weird soup consisting of ham, pickles, and olives). Those are probably the three most common Russian soups.

  131. Why is this news? In the UK, we have had Quorn, made from fungus for decades. Mycoprotein to be scientific. I have served it as stir fried pork and as chicken fillets without anyone noticing.

  132. utu says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Try Jewish section in any supermarket in NY or pretty much everywhere

    Our Schav, or Green Borscht soup, is made from tangy sorrel leaves, farm fresh eggs, and a hint of salt and spice. This refreshing Green Borscht can be served hot or cold—it’s delicious both ways! All of our borscht varieties are Kosher for Passover as certified by The Orthodox Union.
    https://www.goldshorseradish.com/golds-schav

    https://www.innit.com/nutrition/manischewitz-schav/p/00072700101639

    Susan eats London
    Polish Sorrel Soup
    https://susaneatslondon.com/2012/02/13/polish-sorrel-soup-zupa-szczawiowska/

  133. LondonBob says:

    I am always disappointed how few restaurants in London have rabbit on the menu, tastes great but apparently some people don’t like the concept of eating rabbits. The Ukrainian restaurant in Moscow, Shinok, did amazing rabbit dumplings.

    • Replies: @utu
  134. utu says:
    @LondonBob

    What about Spanish restaurants in London? Spanish cuisine is big on rabbit.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  135. @Thorfinnsson

    There are 1000’s of Australian farmers who’d love to feed their beef grass, unfortunately years of drought has rendered that near impossible. Grain fed beef is expensive — for obvious reasons….

  136. @Charles Erwin Wilson 3

    “One day, we will be eating vegans. It will be a public service….The rest of us, however, will be happy.”
    I don’t know… sounds unhealthy — vegans are chocker-block full of virtue, righteousness & piety hormones… can’t be good for you….?

  137. @Daniel Chieh

    I’d just add to your problems with cows.
    They need huge quantities of water compared to veggies & other meats.
    They generate large amounts of methane (chickens, turkey are much better here) & they can have some negative effects on soils & native flora.

  138. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    Rabbit meals are perhaps available there, but I don’t think Spanish restaurants are very recommendable in London, on the other hand. Unless you think it is cool to order items of Tapas, for 5 times more than it would cost in Spain to order the same items. Spanish gastarbaiters seem shocked at menu prices of Spanish restaurants in London and probably will prefer to go a supermarket and make it themselves.

    I think the only nationality who are so price insensitive to enjoy their native cuisine in London, are Japanese gastarbaiters. (Who still seem to go to Japanese restaurants).

    • Replies: @utu
  139. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Two issues.

    – Some ethnic restaurants serve to expats but some are part of the culture of diversity.

    – Japanese are used to higher prices.

    And:

    The 15 Best Places for Rabbit in London
    https://foursquare.com/top-places/london/best-places-rabbit

    “…wild rabbit faggot are out of this world!”

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Dmitry
  140. E says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Sorrel being hard to find in Canada, I’ve had some success in substituting it with rhubarb (have to put it in right at the end).

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  141. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    – Some ethnic restaurants serve to expats but some are part of the culture of diversity.

    Spanish restaurants in London, seem most fashionable for customers which looked like price-insensitive lawyers and businessmen to relax after work. At least, this was my impression of Spanish restaurants of central London.

    Anyway, it’s very different to typical restaurants in Spain, where the majority have very low prices.

    – Japanese are used to higher prices.

    For things like taxis or property. Not for restaurants though in the streets in Japan – most restaurants seem really cheap.

    Perhaps there are some very expensive restaurants in Japan, but I only visited low level restaurants there (except an eel restaurant), and things like cheap sushi there are multiple times cheaper while still tasting good.

    Price insensitivity of Japanese gastarbaiters abroad probably is because they have more benefits than other nationalities – mainly that their car and accommodation costs usually seem to be funded by their corporation.

    I don’t think they seem like they have higher salaries, but then some of them do not need to spend anything for accommodation…

  142. Dmitry says:
    @utu

    15 Best Places for Rabbit in London
    https://foursquare.com/top-places/london/best-places-rabbit

    “Le Sacre Coeur7.8
    18 Theberton St., Islington,”

    ^ Oh I’ve been in this restaurant which they recommend here, although I did not try rabbit.

    I’m not knowledgeable about cuisine to say if it has good French food, but I remember it seemed relatively tasty, and it is surrealistically cheap food (I would expect French restaurants of London should be very expensive, but this one is the opposite, strangely).

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  143. Mr. Hack says:
    @E

    There’s absolutely no reason that it’should be hard to find in Canada, where beautiful cherry trees abound in Toronto and massive vineyards are located in southern Ontario. Sorrel is quite hardy and grows wonderfully within Minnesota. Get some roots planted it in your backyard, you’ll be set for life, Until then, try spinach if your supply of rhubatb runs out – almost indistinguishable

    • Replies: @E
  144. scg16121 says:
    @Gall

    I tried the BeyondMeat crumbles, meant to be used in meat sauce, like ground beef. They were disappointing. Really not nearly as good as real ground beef. I also tried the burger patties. They were pretty good. Pretty close to actual beef. Not quite as good but pretty good. Just my experience.

  145. scg16121 says:
    @Hans

    What do vegans think would happen to all the livestock if people stopped eating meat? Do they think we’d carry on letting them reproduce and incur the expense of running ranches and farms so that livestock can continue to live on generation after generation? Do they think we’d even let the existing livestock live out their lives into old age in special sanctuaries? The only reason all the livestock gets to live at all is that we want to eat it eventually.

    • Replies: @E
    , @Liza
  146. E says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Oh, sorrel seems to grow fine (although many other local plants seem to squeeze it out). But I don’t have a backyard, and it’s not popular enough to be frequently sold in supermarkets (only occasionally in the summer months). I think that Canadians don’t like sour tastes in general. The only reason rhubarb can be found more often is that people make sweet pies out of it.

    Spinach may have a similar texture but it’s not sour. I think it has quite a different taste. So my solution is to buy up rhubarb in the warmer months, cut it up into chunks and put it in deep freeze, then take some out occasionally throughout the rest of the year.

    I mean, I suppose I could do the same thing with sorrel too, it’s just harder to find.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  147. E says:
    @scg16121

    Like what happened with the horses in the USSR after WW2. For a while, there was horse meat being sold everywhere… and then there wasn’t.

    Speaking of vegans:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/14/vegan-parents-starved-toddler-to-death-by-forcing-him-to-eat-raw-plant-based-diet-11147678/

  148. Mr. Hack says:
    @E

    After all of this talk about sorrel soup, I broke down and ordered a bowl today at my local Ukrainian restaurant. The owner told me that they use both sorrel and spinach in their recipe, and it turned out quite tasty (the two huge cabbage rolls that accompanied the soup were even better. 🙂 ).

    He also told me that he gets his sorrel at an Asian grocery store, so you may have some luck checking your local ones for this leafy green. At my local church sometimes they serve “schavel” especially during lent. They used to serve it made with sorrel, but since they too have found it difficult to find sorrel, they use spinach. I don’t know if they add vinegar or lemon to the soup, but quite honestly I can’t tell any difference from the “real thing”. Next time I go to church, I’m going to find out what they use to make the soup taste sour? Of course, hard-boiled egg and sourcream are added to the final product, regardless of whether sorrel or spinach is used.

  149. @Dmitry

    I must go. I haven’t had rabbit for 50 years. It was poor people’s food.

  150. Liza says:
    @scg16121

    What do vegans think would happen to all the livestock if people stopped eating meat?

    All domestic meat, milk and egg animals exist at the pleasure of the farmer/rancher, i.e., they mostly cannot fend for themselves. They can’t exist on their own except maybe for escaped pigs, some of whom go wild. Cows and other meat animals need the farmer to feed them, shelter them, water them when it’s dry, help them in birthing, and on and on and on. They are as babies. I come from a farm and I can assure you that if my dad and mum didn’t baby these fkg condemned creatures from birth to killing, they would not have survived long enough to reproduce, never mind go wild and magically “live off the land” like a bunch of dumb hippies.

    99.9% of all chickens raised on farms do not “go broody” (reproduce on their own), so they are out of the picture as well. We sometimes had an old fashioned type hen go broody, but it did not happen often to my recollection.

    Now, what would happen to the farmer if everyone decided to stop eating meat? Ain’t gonna happen. People (meat eaters) are working out some kind of karma, as are those who avoid meat & dairy products and they have strong urges to do what they do.

    But if farmers saw that no one wants to eat meat anymore (that would take a miracle from God Hisself) over time, or if the proper food & supplements for their animals became unavailable, well, they would see the handwriting on the wall and would have to change to a different way of life. This assumes a continuing relatively free society and economy – but our freedoms are quickly going to hell. Though I pray for animals, nevertheless I don’t want to see a sudden involuntary end to meat “production”. It would cause more suffering for people and more disturbance in society. These kinds of major changes need to occur slowly – but how often does this happen…

    I am not a vegan, but I am answering your questions anyway. 🙂

  151. inertial says:

    So I tried this Beyond Meat stuff for the first time today, in my local Dunkin Donuts of all places. It was in their breakfast sandwich, not “burger” but “sausage.” It felt much more like meat than I was led to believe by this post. If I didn’t know what it was I would’ve thought it was a type of regular sausage, perhaps turkey. But I have to admit, I am not a big fan of breakfast sausages.

  152. jim jones says:
    @Medvedev

    Many people do not like the idea of eating animal corpses, I am one of them.

    • Agree: Liza
  153. Mitleser says:

    One of their victims

    • Replies: @Liza
  154. Beyond Meat. Did they focus group that name? If you want my meat you will have to pry it from my cold dead hand.

  155. Liza says:
    @Mitleser

    Bourdain thought that creating one race of people on earth is a great idea. Pssst – that means no white people anymore, white being recessive no matter what the mixture. Everybody else will be somehow more or less recognizable, but not us. No Russians!

    Well, for all your veal stock and stinky cheese, Tony Boy, you weren’t saved from a ghastly end. And right in the heart of meat-centered gourmet cuisine.

  156. Mr. Hack says:

    Happy Thanksgiving to all (a carnivores delight)!

    No tofu turkey at my table! 🙂

  157. I have an Indian co-worker who is vegetarian. He refuses to try the impossible meat. His reasoning is, I will eat a veggie burger that is a meat substitute, but I will not eat something that is trying to BE meat.

  158. @Gall

    I’ve made the Stubbs chili mix with cubed beef rather than ground. I also tossed in some red wine, mushrooms, and gelatin, and of course skipped the beans. It was great!

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