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Belorussians Are Quite Bright
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world-IQ-map-becker-2018

Mankind’s IQ is 84-88. Becker May 2018 update.

Belorussia has long been a blank spot on the world IQ maps (and when it was not so, its results were based on the average of Ukraine, Russia, and Lithuania’s scores).

However, in David Becker’s latest world IQ update, there finally appeared a concrete estimate of Belorussian IQ:

  • Lynn, R., Gospodarik, E., Salahodjaev, R. & Omanbayev, B. A Standardization of Raven’s SPM+ in Belarus. Mankind Quarterly

I don’t think it has been published yet – at least, it’s not in the MQ archives – but a friend kindly provided me a preprint.

In the case of Belarus, a provisional IQ of 95.1 was estimated as the average of the measured IQs of Russia (96.5) to the north-east, Lithuania (94.6) to the west and Ukraine (94.3) to the south (Lynn and Vanhanen, 2012, pp 19-30). … The Standard Progressive Matrices Plus (SPM+) was administered in early 2017 to a sample of 397 13 to 15-year-olds (203 boys and 175 girls) with a mean age of 14.0 years. … The mean score of the boys was 33.6 (SD = 5.8) and mean score of the girls was 33.9 (SD = 5.7). This difference is not statistically significant. The average of the boys and girls is 33.75 and this represents a British IQ of 97.5 on the the British standardization norms for those aged 14.0 given in Raven (2008).

I am personally quite happy with this development, because I have long maintained that Belorussians are about as bright, if not slightly brighter, than Great Russians, and considerably brighter than Ukrainians.

This is accompanied by the footnote that some Great Russians are very bright (e.g. Yaroslavl, leaving aside the Moscow/SPB cognitive clusters) while other Great Russians are quite dull (Irkutsk/Zabaykal, the Kuban).

My reasons for believing this:

  • Has had more post-Soviet economic success than Russia, let alone the Ukraine, despite having no significant natural resources apart from gas pipeline rents.
  • Has accomplished this while preserving widespread state ownership. Even so, it does well on the World Bank’s Ease of Doing Business rankings, suggesting intelligent, technocratic policy-making (Lukashenko’s escapades regardless).
  • Belorussia is more socially liberal than Russia or the Ukraine (the latter despite intensive State Department propaganda).
  • Belorussia also has has higher trust than Russia or the Ukraine.
  • The BSSR was the only Soviet republic apart from the RSFSR that was a net donor to the Soviet budget.
  • Belorussia has had a reputation for producing high quality manufactured products since at least the era of the late USSR, including optical sights and furniture.

Here’s what I wrote about the Belorussians in my comprehensive survey of Russian IQ for Sputnik & Pogrom:

Nobody has yet directly measured Belorussian IQ, nor did they participate in PISA or TIMSS/PIRLS. But we can assume they are comparable to the results from Central Russia. Despite the huge role of the state in the economy and European sanctions, their GDP per capita (PPP) is more than twice as high as that of the Ukrainians. Strangely enough, Belorussians are more “European” in their views than both Russians and Ukrainians: More trusting, less religious, and even more approving of gay marriage, despite the purely ritualistic gay pride parades through the streets of Kiev. Leaving aside any moral judgments, all these positions are associated with higher IQ.

Fortunately, Ukraine and Belarus have finally decided to participate in the next round of PISA, so after December 2019 we will finally have concrete data.

Now n=397 isn’t of course the best sample, but it’s better than nothing, and suggests that my intuitions on this matter were trending in the right direction. But we’ll see come 2019.

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Belarus, IQ, Psychometrics 
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  1. Dmitry says:

    Belarus has a relatively wise political leadership. I’m not sure we can base this on unreliable data about IQ test results. Actually I am sure this is just good fortune. Although the post is still interesting in the correlates of higher IQ.

    • Replies: @utu
  2. Dmitry says:

    To not forget the cultural plane, I would also note Belarus is outstanding in exporting to Russia really shit hip hop e.g. Bianka, Seryoga.

    [MORE]

    Bianka at least – an elegant and high class young woman:)

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian
  3. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Belorussians Are Quite Bright. Yes, certainly brighter than the author of this note if he really believes in crap he write here about nations IQs with straight face.

    • Replies: @The Big Red Scary
  4. There are some puzzlers in that map.

    Do you really think that Iraqis are brighter, on average, than Iranians? Or that Syrians have sub-Saharan IQ?

    • Replies: @leopard
  5. Mr. Hack says:

    Firstly, is there really that great a distance between an estimated 95.1 and 94.3? Isn’t there a plus minus range built in for accuracy, not included?

    Secondly, as Ukraine is shedding more and more of its sovok population in the Crimea and in Donbas, doesn’t it stand to reason that the national average IQ should increase? It would be interesting to see what the average IQ is within the Central and Western parts of Ukraine without the South East.

    • Replies: @Gerard2
    , @Aedib
    , @AP
  6. Mikhail says: • Website

    With that situation in mind, there’s an offset with the svido factor having a greater proportion.

    For clarity sake, not everyone in rebel held Donbass and the Russian area of Crimea is sovok. Natalia Poklonskaya being one of numerous examples.

  7. Dominican Republic has a higher national IQ than Ireland?

    • Replies: @leopard
    , @Thulean Friend
  8. leopard says:
    @jimmyriddle

    Lynn’s data contains lot of errors but the altrighters blindly believe him

  9. @anony-mouse

    This is why a lot of people just laugh at IQ maps, because you get bullshit like this. In the previous PISA (2015) round, Iceland got an “IQ” at 97 when their scores were converted. They are mostly descendants of Norwegians, and their immigration is still quite low compared to most other countries.

    We are a very long way until we can get accurate data on this stuff. Anyone thinking Irish are dumber than dominicans should be taken out back and shot.

  10. @utu

    Let’s make the following hypotheses:

    1) The population of a given country does not have some unaccounted for inhomogeneities, so that standard techniques will produce a representative sample.

    2) IQ tests are actually good at what they are designed to do, namely make a pretty good prediction
    of the kind of work someone is capable of doing– flippin’ burgers, running a till, writing basic reports, programming computers, calculating the energy levels of a hydrogen atom, and so on.

    Then it seems reasonable to me that 1) it is possible to give a good estimate of the IQ of a nation and 2) it is useful to do so, since then one can estimate the number of people in your country who are capable of doing X and so estimate whether you have sufficient human capital to develop the X-industry.

    Do you disagree with either hypothesis, with the conclusion, or do you have some other objection to these kinds of discussions?

    • Replies: @anonymous coward
    , @utu
  11. Let me give some additional information:

    With an IQ of 97.17 Belarus exceeds its geographic mean of 93.94 (numbers from the pre-V1.3 of my dataset). Maybe the real IQ is a bit lower. Scores were measured in 2017 by SPM+ wich was standardized in 2007 and we do not have FLynn-Effect data after 2008 for fluid intelligence in the UK. Would we suggest that the Flynn-Effect contidued after 2008 keep going until 2017, the Belorussian IQ would be 95.28.

    Otherwise, the age of the sample is between 13 and 15 years, therefore in an age where the cumulative deficit is strongest. For example a study of IQ in Lithuania showed an decrease of IQ from 6 to 11 of about 10 IQ-points. If there is a similar environmental effect in Belarus, this would give this country a much higher IQ (~5 points) when younger age-groups would be integrated.

    Best, David

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @utu
  12. Gerard2 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Secondly, as Ukraine is shedding more and more of its sovok population in the Crimea and in Donbas, doesn’t it stand to reason that the national average IQ should increase?

    This cretinous moronism would be more credible if Russia /Bel/Kaz weren’t annihilating Ukraine in every single positive facet ( except deaths from fires) you idiot…and the western, most artificial and fake part of Ukraine …and the poorest and least populated and stupid parts….. are the western area.

    Why wouldn’t a Ukrainian not want to live as they do in Kazan,Moscow,Saint Petersburg,Nizhny Novgorod,Ufa and several more places in Russia that are much,much,much,much more superior and successful places to live in

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  13. neutral says:

    Has anyone here met some Belorussians? If so I am wondering what the average person there thinks like, would they partake in a CIA colour revolution like Ukraine, what are their thoughts on mass third world immigration into Western Europe, are they generally well informed about things or is there strict censorship?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  14. Has had more post-Soviet economic success than Russia, let alone the Ukraine, despite having no significant natural resources apart from gas pipeline rents.

    That’s not true. The number one export from Belarus is “petroleum products”, but the country produces no oil. They buy oil from Russia at subsidized prices, “refine” it, and resell to the EU at international prices. The resulting profit is a form of rent, that amounts for some 10% of Belorussian annual GDP.

    It is also kinda odd for you to say that Belarus had more economic success given that its GDP is between 50% and 70% of Russia’s level.

  15. @The Big Red Scary

    Not him (he’s an idiot), but it’s obvious that nobody ever bothered to actually administrate IQ tests to a random sample of Belorussians. All this data is pure asspull.

  16. utu says:
    @The Big Red Scary

    (1). This is an issue of statistical sampling that is pretty well covered in basic textbooks. You want to find out what is the average shoe size in Belarus it can be done. And furthermore this average can be compared to similar average in France because (a) the measurement was of physical quantity with established and transferable scale and (b) it can be verified with other types of measurements.

    With IQ we have many problems. How the test are translated from culture to culture and how their scale is established to be the same between two cultures. There is epistemological issue that we do not really know what we are measuring. Tautology that IQ score measures IQ score is the only one we have. But yes, one can go and administer some tests to N subject in Belarus and can mechanically calculate mean, variance and pdf if N is large enough. How representative it is, you will never know until you find how good is your sample and what is variance and geographic homogeneity. Which requires more tests. Then there is an issue of stability and how those IQ scores are changing once rural population becomes urban and so on.

    (2). The predictive powers of IQ test are overhyped and society and class specific. Reported correlations often are inflated by dubious range correction procedures. Cults are usually not honest when it comes to fighting for their cult. So the precepts of scientific integrity do not apply to them. W/o these corrections all correlations are much smaller.

    Many countries like Germany or USSR managed to run modern technological societies w/o these tests. Selections and redirection of student career was based on school accomplishments which was much more comprehensive and was more just and did not feel as crude social engineering as IQism does. Finally, in any society career decisions at critical point are made by who you now rather than what you know or what yourIQ score was. Only naive libertarian dreamers think that will construct society based on true merit and iQ will help the. Most grown ups shed off these fantasies at some points.

    IQism is crass and vulgar reductionism that appeals to some minds that clearly are lacking something that can’t be captured by the IQ tests. People like Lynn, Becker (And I though that Germans had more common sense), Kierkegaard or Karlin are lacking this something whatever it is. This something prevents people from falling into the grips of reductionist obsessions and even zealotry.

    To avoid falling into the grips of reification instead of saying IQ this or that or his or her IQ every time use IQ score instead of IQ. IQ does not exist. Only the score does. If you start doing it you may develop a little distance to these constructs which are just constructs not reality. This might be a first step in long recovery process.

    Belarus does not need IQ tests for anything. Actually nobody does. And if I were Alexander Lukashenko and somebody came to me telling me that he needs to test Belarus population to see if is suitable to develop the industry X, I would have him impaled. Very slowly. Think of carrying a jar of vaseline with you.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  17. utu says:
    @David Becker

    Are you sure that it was 95.28 and not 95.27. Perhaps you should recheck it. Besides why only two digits. I am sure it costed you a lot to let all those other digits go into oblivion from where nobody will be able to hear from them. But I am sure you care about all digits equally. They are like your children all loved the same.

    How big N must be to make 0.01 meaningful?

    • LOL: AaronB
  18. Mr. Hack says:
    @Gerard2

    Because they might have to live next door to an uncouth, barbarian, xenophobe like you! :-)

    • LOL: utu
  19. Aedib says:
    @Mr. Hack

    as Ukraine is shedding more and more of its sovok population in the Crimea and in Donbas, doesn’t it stand to reason that the national average IQ should increase?

    No. It actually should decrease the average IQ.

    • Replies: @AP
  20. Dmitry says:
    @neutral

    Lol I’ve met a lot of people from Belarus over years in different places. All ones were personalities that do not seem interested in politics, or you would think would never talk politics.

    In relation to your Western culture question – I remember in 2012, when I was studying abroad in a summer I met from Minsk a girl who was planning on going to a Rihanna concert, and also a guy who seemed gay. He was preparing to study architecture in New York, or something like that. There’s nothing anti-Western.

    Belarus have access to all the same culture as the rest of us. Just a politically cleverer country, and which doesn’t allow foreign NGOs to run around.

    Since 2017, they have opened their borders to Western tourists (visa free).

  21. Dmitry says:

    And Miss Belarus at least knows how to multiply numbers – on a calculator.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  22. AP says:
    @Aedib

    as Ukraine is shedding more and more of its sovok population in the Crimea and in Donbas, doesn’t it stand to reason that the national average IQ should increase?

    No. It actually should decrease the average IQ.

    Donbas is full of proles who are not necessarily bright, although there are some engineers also. Kharkiv, in the East, is full of bright people but it hasn’t been lost.

    I don’t think the loss of Donbas would either raise or lower Ukraine’s IQ significantly because it is neither the brightest nor the least bright region.

    Cognitively, I’d guess Kiev comes in at the top, followed by Kharkiv, followed by Galicia.

    Non-Galician western Ukrainian regions such as Transcarpathia would be at the bottom.

    Other regions would be in the middle.

    • Replies: @Aedib
  23. AP says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Firstly, is there really that great a distance between an estimated 95.1 and 94.3? Isn’t there a plus minus range built in for accuracy, not included

    Correct.

    Secondly, as Ukraine is shedding more and more of its sovok population in the Crimea and in Donbas, doesn’t it stand to reason that the national average IQ should increase?

    No, because the parts of Ukraine that would probably have the lowest IQ would not be in Donbas but would be in certain western Ukrainian regions such as Transcarpathia or probably Volynia. Conversely, Galicia would probably have the highest IQ in Ukraine outside Kiev and possibly Kharkiv.

    Donbas would probably be in the middle. Its loss certainly helps out in stats like HIV, crime, life expectancy, birth rate, abortion etc. but not in average IQ.

  24. I had a lover from Minsk who was bright. Oddly, she was an engineer yet still quite feminine. A bit of female autism which perhaps explains it.

    She was not interested in politics (granted, female) and was mainly impressed that I knew Belarus existed and there was a city called Minsk there.

    Probably they’re quite used to foreigners not realizing Belarus is a thing, and unlike the svidomite Ukrainians they don’t get all worked up about it.

    As for Belarus’s relatively successful development, seems like they lucked out by getting Lukashenko. Without him it’s logical to assume oligarchs would’ve taken over and ruined the country, as happened to the Ukraine and almost happened in Russia.

    Probably in the future they should look into privatization, depending on how well developed the domestic capital market is.

    Monday morning quarterbacking is of course very easy, but it seems like the ex-communist countries should have not privatized the state enterprises at all.

    Instead, state enterprises should have offered equity stakes (not majority control) to leading foreign firms to bring in Western and Japanese technology and management. So the Soviet steel industry could perhaps have been divided into several competing groups, and enterprises like ThyssenKrupp, Nucor (assuming the USSR had any mini-mills?), POSCO, Kobe Steel, etc. could have been brought in to run the enterprises.

    The private sector would be left to develop through small business, entrepreneurship, and hopefully venture capital. The latter sector could have been developed with state money seeding people like Y-Combinator or whatever operating in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kiev, Catherineburg or however the fuck it’s spelled in Russian, etc.

    As domestic commercial law and capital markets developed, eventually one would be able to fully privatize the state enterprises on the stock exchange through fully transparent initial public offerings instead of the ridiculous rigged auctions and loans for shares schemes.

    Giving people their apartments was also dumb. If you don’t incur a capital cost you don’t think like an owner. Instead they should have been given mortgages, and Anglo condominium/HOA law and structures implemented in the dwellings.

    But of course hindsight is 20/20.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  25. @Thorfinnsson

    My belief is that this is mostly correct and things should have been done this way – indeed, it was largely done this way in Poland – but probably not politically realistic.

    1. Commies and left nationalists (there were no econ. right-wing nationalists of any political relevance) were flatly against foreign ownership of the crown jewels of the Soviet economy, and they controlled the Duma, back when the Duma still mattered.

    Pinochetianism could have taken care of that, but that was hardly realistic when Russia was reliant on loans from the West.

    2. The privatization of apartments was a success and really a good thing, minor quibbles about incentives regardless. It was the one thing affecting 90%+ of the population that tied the interests of ordinary Russians to the new regime, as opposed to the populists and Communist revanchists. It is very unlikely that Yeltsin would have hanged on to power without this.

    It also played an important role in softening the effects of the 1990s hyper-depression on living standards.

    Re-Belorussians. I suspect a banal factor in zmagarism (Belorussian version of svidomism) being less developed than Ukrainian svidomism is them simply being called White Russians. Can’t exactly deny one is Russian when it’s in your name. Also zmagarism is innately even more ridiculous than svidomism; while the svidomy at least like to think they are their own autochthonous civilization, Belorussian zmagars can only larp as the “real” descendants of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

  26. melanf says:

    It is interesting that the number of outstanding figures of science and art (over the past 500 years, per capita) Belarus is significantly inferior to both Russia and Ukraine. Ukraine is very much inferior to Russia by this criterion, but Belarus is inferior even to Ukraine.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  27. Aedib says:
    @AP

    If big Russians have higher IQ than little Russians and they are romved from the map, the logical consequence is a fall of the IQ.

    • Replies: @AP
  28. Dmitry says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    It’s true that nomenclature is comically important in these issues. If the gods exist, it’s one of the reason they will be laughing at humans. A good reflection of our primitive intellectual level.

    In the case of Israel-Arab conflict. If in 1948, the Jews had continued to call themselves ‘Palestinians’ (as they had before 1948), instead of giving themselves a new name as Israel – then they would have had a lot less problems about being called ‘colonizers’ by the world (in which the Muslims have the original name of the territory and the Jews have stupidly – or suicidally – given themselves a new name).

    • Replies: @Felix Keverich
  29. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    It can depend also if you only are counting Belorussians.

    It was a very multi-national country in the past, and you look at the demographics in the art academy in some historical periods e.g. 1919.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @melanf
  30. @Dmitry

    The creation of the Jewish state was accompanied by a massive act of ethnic cleasing. The Zionists could call themselves whatever they wanted, the world would still be upset at them for stealing other people’s land and homes. They would still need to construct a wall, complete with snipers and machine-gunners, in order to keep Palestinian people out of Palestine. The world might call it ‘apartheid’.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Thorfinnsson
  31. Dmitry says:
    @Felix Keverich

    99% of people have no more 1 minutes of knowledge or interest in learning about a subject.

    If the one side called themselves Palestinian Jews (like before 1948). And the other side would be Palestinian Muslims. Then the colonization concept would not exist in the same way, that was created by the name changing, where one side keeps the original name, and another side takes a new name.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  32. @Felix Keverich

    The cucks and liberasts of the world would be upset, that is.

    I have no objections whatsoever to conquest.

    The only problem is that the lands occupied by Israel should rightly be under the control of a Christian kingdom or a monastic order state.

    Apartheid, likewise, is a good and wonderful thing. It literally means separateness. Keeping people you don’t get along with separate from you.

  33. Mikhail says: • Website

    Donbas is full of proles who are not necessarily bright, although there are some engineers also. Kharkiv, in the East, is full of bright people but it hasn’t been lost.

    Galicia and Volhynia and some from these two areas, who moved elsewhere, have a share of violently narrow minded nationalists.

    Their influence explains some of the censoring ways evident in Kiev regime controlled Ukraine.

  34. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    In the US, I’ve come across a good number of well educated Jews from Belarus – some of them with close family relations remaining there.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  35. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    It is interesting that the number of outstanding figures of science and art (over the past 500 years, per capita) Belarus is significantly inferior to both Russia and Ukraine. Ukraine is very much inferior to Russia by this criterion, but Belarus is inferior even to Ukraine.

    It can depend also if you only are counting Belorussians.
    It was a very multi-national country in the past, and you look at the demographics in the art academy in some historical periods e.g. 1919.

    The result will be the same for almost any calculation methods. Even if we consider the Jews and poles who lived on the territory of Belarus as ” Belarusians”

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  36. @Mikhail

    I’m surprised there are any Jews from Belarus that are even alive.

    Where’d they hide when the SS swept through?

    Or did they retreat deeper into Russia?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @melanf
    , @Mikhail
  37. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    Also the word difference between things like ‘immigrants/refugees’, ‘colonists’, ‘refugees’, ‘natives’, ‘settlers’, ‘indigenous’.

    If for example, European people in e.g. France, called themselves ‘indigenous people’. And they called the North Africans and blacks living in France the ‘colonizers’ or ‘settlers’.

    But instead, the North Africans are ‘immigrants/refugees’.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  38. @Dmitry

    There is also the matter of liberals constantly inventing new language, then making the old language taboo. Many examples.

    Colored::People of Color

    Negro::Black::African-American

    Poor::Low Income

    Prostitute::Sex Worker

    Mulatto::Bi-racial

    Rape::Sexual Assault

    Concubine::Partner

    That last one is a bit of a joke, but it’s really irritating when a man refers to his “partner”. I immediately assume he’s a bourgeois homo-sexual, then am surprised when a woman turns up. If you press by asking, “Partner?” with an arched eyebrow they get offended. Wtf.

    Many of these new terms are less specific. Bi-racial could be any combination of two races, though in practice people only use this for mulattos. A sex worker could be just a topless bar employee, or it could be a full-fledged hooker.

    The widespread substitution of “sexual assault” for rape (outside of the context of “rape culture”) is also very irritating. When you read “sexual assault” in a news story you’re left wondering what happened. An alleged unwanted finger blasting at a kegger? Or a full-fledge rapefugee horde attack?

  39. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Yes Israel has a lot of citizens from Belarus since the 1990s (100,000-200,000), so they survived in some way or another.

    Although I would not be sure how ‘religious’ or strongly identifying this demographic is.

    Israel was until 2001 the country taking the most citizens from Belarus (excluding Russia). (The ones going to Germany were also partly or mainly Jews – as Germany was giving them free citizenship as a kind of ‘sorry for the holocaust’).

    Emigration from Belarus is shutting down around 2005 as the Belarus economy started to ‘take-off” and ‘boom’ from 2004. (The Belarus economy grew over 10% in 2004, and continued near to 10% GDP growth per year until 2009).

  40. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    Belarus always has a smaller population compared to Ukraine.

    Consider, the population in – territory now called – Ukraine was 35 million people in 1913. In the same year, in Belarus, it was just under 8 million people.

  41. Dmitry says:
    @Dmitry

    And the Chinese know how to do ‘beauty pageant diplomacy’ in encroaching business and investments in the country.

    Give Miss Belarus a free Chinese car, which they produce in Belarus.

  42. @Anatoly Karlin

    My belief is that this is mostly correct and things should have been done this way – indeed, it was largely done this way in Poland – but probably not politically realistic.

    I get the idea that the length of time spent under communism was a real problem for post-Soviet countries compared to the Warsaw Pact satellites and the Baltics.

    Capitalism was extinguished in Russia in 1917. By 1991 there was more or less no one around in Russia who had extensive experience in capitalism, and certainly no one of any significance. The White Russian diaspora by 1991 probably no longer spoke much good Russian, and in any case the White Russian diaspora was so much smaller than Polish, Hungarian, Czech, etc. diasporas.

    The satellite and Baltic states meanwhile spent only 43 to 51 years under communism. Plenty of people around in 1991 who were around in 1945, even people who had fairly senior roles.

    Good example is the story that Mikhail Gorbachev supposedly asked how America “plans” the operation of so many restaurants. When your leader asks questions like that, you’re in trouble.

    1. Commies and left nationalists (there were no econ. right-wing nationalists of any political relevance) were flatly against foreign ownership of the crown jewels of the Soviet economy, and they controlled the Duma, back when the Duma still mattered.

    Even a minority foreign equity stake?

    Pinochetianism could have taken care of that, but that was hardly realistic when Russia was reliant on loans from the West.

    Why was Russia reliant on Western loans to begin with?

    2. The privatization of apartments was a success and really a good thing, minor quibbles about incentives regardless. It was the one thing affecting 90%+ of the population that tied the interests of ordinary Russians to the new regime, as opposed to the populists and Communist revanchists. It is very unlikely that Yeltsin would have hanged on to power without this.

    It also played an important role in softening the effects of the 1990s hyper-depression on living standards.

    I believe in the USSR rent was fixed at six percent of income. Perhaps someone here who lived in the USSR can confirm. It would not be that difficult to create a financial instrument which approximates debt service at that level, and it would have contributed to building the nascent taxing authoring of Russia.

    But there are worse things than converting state housing to private housing at a stroke, especially in Russia’s disastrous Wild 90s.

    Re-Belorussians. I suspect a banal factor in zmagarism (Belorussian version of svidomism) being less developed than Ukrainian svidomism is them simply being called White Russians. Can’t exactly deny one is Russian when it’s in your name. Also zmagarism is innately even more ridiculous than svidomism; while the svidomy at least like to think they are their own autochthonous civilization, Belorussian zmagars can only larp as the “real” descendants of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

    If zmagars and svidomites are serious, they need an aesthetic better than LARPing as the SS in a Super Mario Galaxy t-shirt.

    I propose they adopt the aesthetic of a 50% member of their diaspora, Chicago’s legendary Da Coach, Iron Mike Ditka.

    Additionally, Mike Ditka could have resulted in the election of Hillary Clinton as President in 2008. There was an effort to draft Mike Ditka to run as a Republican for Senate in 2004 against Barack Obama, after it turned out the Republican nominee was a pervert who frequented sex clubs (great hardball by the Obama campaign). Mike Ditka, being by far the most beloved celebrity in Illinois, would have steamrolled Obama. How could a “community organizer” defeat the man who brought the Superbowl World Championship to Chicago and routinely appeared on local television drunk?

    In our official timeline, Ditka mused about it but decided not to throw his hat in the ring after engaging in some full-throated fag bashing. Remember, this was 2004 when Hillary Clinton was a staunch defender of the sanctity of marriage, which of course she has so much practical experience with. :)

    In our alternate history, Ditka enters the race. During the official debate with State Senator Obama, the Hall of Famer delivers a devastating pancake block to State Senator Obama that completely knocks him off the stage to wild applause from the adoring superfans. Ditka’s campaign ads feature highlight reels of the 1985 Chicago Bears, the Superbowl Shuffle, and attacks on people who put ketchup on their hot dogs. Ditka goes on to defeat State Senator Obama in a landslide, and Obama chooses to retire and becomes a community college teacher at the College of Lake County in Waukegan, Illinois.

    Senator Ditka advocates a muscular approach to foreign policy, because after all you don’t win on the grid iron by letting the other team knock your quarterback around. That’s one thing he learned as a tight end. With Obama out of the picture, Hillary wins the Presidency after the economy collapsed.

    After Russia’s brutal invasion and conquest of the Crimea (which belongs to UKRAINE!!!), President Hillary, advised by Senate Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Senator Ditka (R-Illinois), chooses to declare war on Russia.

    NATO troops eventually get bogged down in trench warfare around Volgograd, while Banderist-Svidomite auxilliaries initiate ethnic cleansing in the Donets Basin.

    And all made possible by DA COACH.

    • LOL: Dan Hayes, reiner Tor
    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @Mr. Hack
    , @LatW
  43. Dmitry says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    It seems to be as if person immigrates from the European continent, to another continent. They are called ‘colonizer’, ‘settler’, ‘imperialist’.

    But if a person immigrates from a non-European continent, to the European continent, they are called ‘immigrant’, ‘refugee’.

    The lack of consistency is kind of funny. If there could just be established some uniformity in word choices.

    Maybe just call everyone a colonialist? In which case, e.g. “Paris recently has a lot of African and Middle Eastern colonialists taking over”. This is a “colonialist part of the city – there are many Africans and Middle Eastern colonizers.”

  44. melanf says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    I’m surprised there are any Jews from Belarus that are even alive.
    Where’d they hide when the SS swept through?
    Or did they retreat deeper into Russia?

    Some of the Belarusian Jews were saved due to the fact that they were evacuated to the East. A smaller part escaped extrimination because fighting the Germans as part of the guerrilla groups.

    • Replies: @DFH
    , @Svigor
  45. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Thorfinnsson

    In the years after WW II, Jews from elsewhere in the USSR likely moved to Belarus.

    I know this to be true of Lithuania’s Jewish population.

  46. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Thorfinnsson

    He’s great at press conferences:

  47. Mikhail says: • Website

    Brought to my attention on which foreigners receive the most Russian citizenship:

    Imperialist aggressors!

    • Replies: @Bigly
  48. Mr. Hack says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Wow, so many nice and masculine photos of a diaspora Svidomite. Looks like the therapy (#145) is really paying off nicely! Keep it up and maybe old Iron Mike will present you with a big discount at one of his steakhouses! :-)

  49. Mr. Hack says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Also zmagarism is innately even more ridiculous than svidomism; while the svidomy at least like to think they are their own autochthonous civilization, Belorussian zmagars can only larp as the “real” descendants of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

    Actually, these two nations at one time shared the same civilizational space, as is presented here and among other sources as well:

    https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1970&context=ccr

  50. songbird says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Concubine::Partner

    Of all the words that the Left has hijacked and repurposed, nothing makes me more displeased than how they took a word of enterprise and made it into one of sexual decadence.

  51. LatW says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    If zmagars and svidomites are serious, they need an aesthetic better than LARPing as the SS in a Super Mario Galaxy t-shirt.

    The kid T-Shirt was a joke. They wear suits now (and Thor Steinar).

    I used to know a couple of zmagars. They approached me way back through a Baltic ancestral faith community and I hosted them, great people. I suppose they’re very marginal in Belarus (btw, these were authoritarians, not pro-Western ones). Yea, they tend to believe they are Baltic. I just smiled and nodded. Called Alba Ruthenian in Latin. Quite a bit of blondism there, too. Some of them have beautiful, long straight hair. Not Finnish blond, but a tad darker.

    And all made possible by DA COACH.

    Hah! Let me add one of our own warriors – the Baltic Americans bring in our brother Dick Butkus.

    Trump’s a fan I heard.

    “Let the bodies hit the floor! Let the bodies hit the floor!”

  52. DFH says:
    @melanf

    One of my relatives helped a German anti-partisan squad in Belarus. His son is married to a Jewess.

  53. Dmitry says:

    I look on Karlin blog’s Twitter account (on the right of the screen), and see posted a taking down of Julia Ioffe, by an American professor of Russian called Jennifer Wilson.

    I read it and laughed for a few seconds, before feeling an ominous sensation – like how you feel after watching the Japanese insect fighting videos on YouTube in which formerly scary things like wasps and cockroaches are being decapitated by a giant centipede.

    Ioffe no longer seems scary to me anymore.

    Wtf – where does this new species come from, and what do it want from us.

    -

    -

    -

    -

    -

    -

    -

  54. Dmitry says:

    This one was funny:

  55. @Dmitry

    They want feudal privileges essentially.

    Rents (b.s. make-work jobs or welfare), lese majeste (“hate speech” laws), and deference (social and moral superiority to whites, addressed by whites only with deference).

    Where did they come from? Lots of theories there, but basically from “Civil Rights” and “New Left” thinking in the 60s. Their power base is the universities, media, and NGOs. They also try to takeover corporate bureaucracies in the private sector. Things got a lot worse during the Obama Administration, who deliberately whipped them up in order to get reelected in 2012.

    It’s all very theatrical in that they have no real power or wealth at all, nor are they going to get it outside of South Africa. Whites can also acquire these theatrical feudal privileges by becoming homo-sexual or transsexual.

    You can chuckle at what these “academics” are up to here: https://twitter.com/RealPeerReview

  56. @Dmitry

    Bianka at least – an elegant and high class young woman:)

    Unironically bright – an orchestra musician who figured out shit hip hop would pay better and enjoyed lasting success for 13 years, a time that saw many starlets fade into oblivion.

    Another example of practical cleverness is the turning of Minsk into Las Vegas for Russian tourists since Russia banned casinos. That’s also at odds with Belarus’ Soviet remnant image.

    • Agree: Dmitry
    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  57. AP says:
    @Aedib

    Southern Big Russian have IQs about the same as Ukrainians, so their removal wouldn’t change things. Russians from Donbas are not smarter than Russians from next-door Kuban or whatever.

  58. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Dmitry

    Ioffe has expressed bigoted attributes.

    https://www.eurasiareview.com/09062016-enhanced-russia-bashing-at-the-new-york-times-analysis/

    In his article, Baker (who has previously covered Russia for a considerable period) provides a hyperlinked reference to a piece by his NYT colleague Jonathan Weisman. Along with at least one other source, Weisman’s May 26 article ‘The Nazi Tweets of Trump ‘God Emperor’, misrepresents what Melania Trump said of Julia Ioffe. M. Trump isn’t a journalist and English isn’t her native language. It can be reasonably deduced that M. Trump believes that in a divisive way, Ioffe, has a penchant for bringing out the worst elements in society.

    If quoted accurately, M. Trump could’ve chosen her words more carefully. Her US Republican presidential candidate husband Donald, is a lifelong New Yorker and longtime supporter of Israel. His daughter (from his first marriage) Ivanka, is a converted Orthodox Jew, whose husband is of that denomination. Donald and Ivanka seem to maintain a close relationship. Fox News media analyst Howard Kurtz characterized Ioffe’s piece on M. Trump as a hit job. M. Trump has a basis for disliking Ioffe. It appears a stretch to suggest that M. Trump is anti-Jewish.

    Meantime, it can be rationally argued that Ioffe comes across as being more of a bigot than what M. Trump can be reasonably accused of on that score. As a high profile English language journalist for several years, Ioffe well understands the kind of semantics she has utilized. One of several examples is her October 13, 2013 New Republic article ‘Russians Still Love Pogroms’, written when she was an editor at that venue. As if there aren’t non-bigoted Russians, in addition to anti-Russian bigots, who spew disparagingly inaccurate stereotypes.

    This past April 29, Russia Insider had a feature titled ‘Julia Ioffe: Russians Are Like, You Know, Really Antisemitic’, followed with the byline ‘A pathological Russophobe, this New Yorker writer never misses a chance to tell us how awful Russians are …’. The thread discussion at the aforementioned Russia Insider posting, is a blend of some intelligently valid comments against Ioffe and the level of stupid bigotry that Ioffe (IMO) has expressed herself.

    In her suggestive depiction of Russians being collectively on the bigoted side, she ignores the numerous examples to the contrary. I’ve run into a good share of earnestly minded people of Russian Orthodox Christian and/or Jewish backgrounds, as well as others, who (put mildly) oppose her caricaturing. This particular viewpoint gets downplayed, or omitted altogether in ‘the paper of record’, as Ioffe is lauded by some as a hero journalist.

    Ioffe said the following shortly after her piece on M. Trump: ‘The irony is that today, when I was getting all of this horrible anti-Semitic shit that I’ve only ever seen in Russia, I was reminded that 26 years ago today my family came to the US from Russia. We left Russia because we were fleeing anti-Semitism. Its been a rude shock to everyone.’

    Such is her ignorance. Circa the Cold War period in the US, talk radio host Alan Berg, was murdered for reasons connected with his Jewish background and provocatively stated liberal views. Before and since Berg’s murder, some Jewish-American organizations and individual Jews have attested to experiencing anti-Jewish behavior in one form or the other in the US. It’s nevertheless inaccurate to collectively label that nation as anti-Jewish.

    For economic and some other reasons, life in the USSR had a certain unpleasantness for many, regardless of their ethno-religious background. In post-Soviet Russia, there’ve been numerous changes for the better, with definite room for improvement. It’s disingenuous to suggest differently.

    Moscow is now said to be the city with the largest expat Israeli population, numbering around 80,000. In Russia, prominent TV host Vladimir Solovyov periodically notes his Jewish background. He’s well appreciated by many patriotically minded Russians. Likewise, Russian-Jewish analyst Yevgeny Satanovsky, is accorded respect in his Russian national TV appearances. There’re numerous other examples in Russia, which include the stature of the famous Ukrainian born Jewish singer Iosif Kobzon.

    In its short history, post-Soviet Russia, has had more than one prime minister of known Jewish origin. In the 200 plus history of the US, how many people of Jewish background have served as American president and vice president?

    During the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics, Ioffe described the Russian teen figure skater Yulia Lipnitskaya as ‘flat-chested’. I sense that Ioffe would’ve problems in the US market if she were to describe a popular American teen female prodigy as such. (If this example is considered nit picking, let’s see Ioffe characterize a popular American teen phenom in the same manner.)

    Whatever the ethnicity and locale, the bigoted anti-Jewish comments directed at Ioffe, serve to divert attention away from the valid criticism of her. The past tragic history of the Jews, combined with a noticeable Jewish mass media and academic presence, form a staunchly influential opposition to contemporary anti-Jewish bigotry.

    In conjunction with that last thought, one senses that Baker, Weisman and numerous others at The NYT (as well as some other major US mass media outlets), have selective blinders when it comes to intolerant remarks. Of late, The NYT has definitely ratcheted up the promotion of negatively inaccurate perceptions about Russia/Russians – something unclear to numerous people – some of whom have a high level of formal education.”

  59. Mr. XYZ says:

    : Frankly, I am very curious to see how the average IQs in Galicia and Subcarpathian Ruthenia compare. You suspect that Subcarpathian Ruthenians have much lower average IQs than Galicians have, but when you look at the 1880 literacy data for Austria-Hungary, there doesn’t appear to be a significant difference in literacy between Galicia and Subcarpathian Ruthenia:

    Note: Lemberg/Lviv is an exception to this rule, but please keep in mind that most of its residents in 1880 might have been Poles and Jews–something which doesn’t appear to be true today. Thus, if Lemberg/Lviv had a high average IQ in 1880, this does not automatically mean that Lemberg/Lviv likewise has a high average IQ today.

    Also, for what it’s worth, my guess is that both Galicia and Subcarpathian Ruthenia will have a PISA score somewhere between 450 and 470–as in, slightly below Croatia–in 2019.

    • Replies: @AP
  60. Svigor says:
    @utu

    With IQ we have many problems.

    Compared to what?

    Rhetorical question.

  61. Svigor says:
    @melanf

    #1 = propaganda photo.
    #2 = much more plausible.

  62. Svigor says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Mulatto::Bi-racial

    “Biracial” and “multiracial” are oxymorons. You can be 1 race, or 0 race, a breed or a mixed, there’s no double-dipping. Mixed people have no race, by definition. If their entire race is mixed (i.e., still noticeably working the lumps out of the evolutionary batter, like “Latinos”), then we wouldn’t refer to the individual as mixed.

    If you press by asking, “Partner?” with an arched eyebrow they get offended. Wtf.

    You’re doing it wrong. It’s so much more fun to play it straight (haha): “oh, you guys are in business together? What kind of business do you have?”

  63. Dmitry says:
    @Toronto Russian

    Unironically bright – an orchestra musician who figured out shit hip hop would pay better

    Lol it is actually true. Same kind of story as Timati.

  64. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Frankly, I am very curious to see how the average IQs in Galicia and Subcarpathian Ruthenia compare. You suspect that Subcarpathian Ruthenians have much lower average IQs than Galicians have, but when you look at the 1880 literacy data for Austria

    Large-scale literacy campaign began around 1880 in Galicia but not in Transcarpathia; Austrians were supportive of mass schooling but Hungarians were not. That’s when the two regions went their separate ways.

    Details here (a very interesting paper worth reading):

    https://keithdarden.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/darden-natural-experiment.pdf

    At the outbreak of the first world war, the literacy rate in Transcarpathia was only 20%. In Galicia it was 59%.

    By 1910 all Galician kids were in school. This placed Galicia not only ahead of Transcarpathia but ahead of Russian-ruled Ukraine also.

    Galicia had about 15% literacy in 1880, 44% in 1900 and 59% by the time of World War I.

    There is data for the Russian Empire in 1897:

    At that time Galicia had a higher literacy rate than almost all of ethnic Russia. Only Moscow and St. Petersburg were higher.

    This is reflected in modern times. Lviv is per capita the top IT center in Ukraine. It produces most of Ukraine’s many chess champions (for example Lviv-born World Women’s Chess Champion Mariya Muzychuk). Lviv oblast is in third place, after Kiev City and Kharkiv oblast, for percentage of the population with a post-secondary education. Transcarpathia was, I believe, in last place.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @Mr. Hack
  65. @Toronto Russian

    Okay, didn’t know that, Minsk has just been bumped up on my to visit list.

    Been too long since I last had my poker fix.

  66. melanf says:
    @AP

    At that time Galicia had a higher literacy rate than almost all of ethnic Russia

    Thanks to a large percentage of Jews and poles

    • Replies: @AP
  67. AP says:
    @melanf

    At that time Galicia had a higher literacy rate than almost all of ethnic Russia

    Thanks to a large percentage of Jews and poles

    Increase in literacy was accompanied by large-scale increase in Ukrainian-language schools and newspaper circulation.

    Other than the city of Lviv, in 1880 Polish parts of Galicia had about the same literacy as Ukrainian parts. Given the dramatic increase in Ukrainian-language schools, there is no reason to assume that improvement in literacy post 1880 was heavily tilted in favor of Poles.

    Since about 100% of Galician kids were in school by 1914, this means that about 100% of Ukrainian kids were in school also.

    Across the border, Volynia Governate (Russian Empire) was 70% Ukrainian, vs. 65% Ukrainian in eastern Galicia. Yet 10%-20% literacy rate there compared to 44% in Galicia.

    I suppose, taking into account Lviv, one can adjust the Ukrainian literacy of 1900 from 44% to the upper 30s. This would still place Galician Ukrainians above almost all ethnic Russian areas, into the same category as Yaroslavl.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  68. melanf says:

    Increase in literacy was accompanied by large-scale increase…

    There is no need for such sophistry. In Galicia there lived a large population of Jews (all literate), a large number of poles (mostly literate), a number of Germans (all literate). If we subtract this part of the population, there will be Ukrainians with a very low level of literacy. Of course, the level of literacy grew, as elsewhere in the world.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
    , @AP
    , @AP
  69. @Thorfinnsson

    Concubine::Partner

    Wouldn’t the proper term be mistress if it is just one woman? Concubine brings to mind the harems of Turkish sultans or Chinese/Korean emperors/kings.

  70. Mikhail says: • Website
    @melanf

    Revisionism on reality is used with a bogus premised chauvinism.

  71. iffen says:

    because I have long maintained that Belorussians are about as bright, if not slightly brighter, than Great Russians, and considerably brighter than Ukrainians.

    I wonder if this could explain why we have numerous Russian and Ukrainian (or if you prefer, Russians who think they are Ukrainians) commenters, but no Belorussians?

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  72. Mikhail says: • Website
    @iffen

    Do we know that for sure? A number of Belarusians don’t get offended by being called Russian. A number of them also have roots to either Russia and/or Ukraine.

  73. AP says:
    @melanf

    In Galicia there lived a large population of Jews (all literate), a large number of poles (mostly literate)

    Impoverished Jews were not all literate, and Polish peasants were not mostly literate.

    Review the 1880 map – Polish rural areas as illiterate as Ukrainian rural ones.

    Galicia (east and west) was 40% Ukrainian. 50% of new schools in Galicia were Ukrainian language.

    So increase in Galician literacy from 15% to 44% affected Ukrainians proportionately.

  74. Dmitry says:

    In Belarus, beauty pageant contestants are engaged in enthusiastic and patriotic subbotnik activities.

    • Replies: @Toronto Russian
  75. Mr. XYZ says:

    : Had more of Ukraine (such as Volhynia) hypothetically been under Austrian rule in the 1800s and early 1900s, couldn’t the literacy there have been much higher?

    After all, you’re comparing Galicia to Volhynia and Yaroslavl but they were ruled by two different empires. Had Volhynia and other parts of Ukraine also been under Austrian rule, their literacy rate might have also been higher back then.

    Thus, my point is that you can’t look at literacy rates between Galicia and, say, Volhynia in 1900 and automatically assume that this is the result of a difference in average IQ between these regions. Rather, it could have simply been due to a stronger literacy campaign in Galicia.

    • Replies: @AP
  76. DFH says:
    @E. Harding

    Funny how there are no Indians on that list but lots and lots of Slavs

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  77. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    Had more of Ukraine (such as Volhynia) hypothetically been under Austrian rule in the 1800s and early 1900s, couldn’t the literacy there have been much higher?

    Yes.

    Thus, my point is that you can’t look at literacy rates between Galicia and, say, Volhynia in 1900 and automatically assume that this is the result of a difference in average IQ between these regions

    No, but the consequence would be higher IQ in Galicia than in Volynia today. It would probably also be higher in Galicia than in many Russian regions.

  78. Anon8888 says:

    Can someone please recommend 2 or 3 book references about IQ, haplotypes, HBD and race realism?
    Thank you.

  79. Mr. XYZ says:

    @AP: Hang on–I’m confused: Why exactly would an earlier start in regards to literacy programs mean a higher average IQ in Galicia today?

    After all, since IQ appears to be mostly genetic, it shouldn’t make much difference as to when literacy programs started in a particular area just as long as they were eventually completed (as in, with universal or near-universal literacy eventually being successfully achieved).

    • Replies: @AP
  80. Mr. Hack says:
    @AP

    Mariya has an older sister, Anna, who’s no slouch either:

    Anna Muzychuk has won the Women’s World Rapid Chess Championship (in 2016) and the Women’s World Blitz Chess Championship twice (in 2014 and 2016).

    And then there’s the somewhat eccentric Vasilly Ivanchuk (Big Chuckie) another Galician who always figures in the top 10 of current men’s greats in chess. He’s the only player that I know of who regularly can beat world #1 Magnus Carlson. In 2016 he beat Carlson for the highly coveted World Rapid Championship, at the ripe old age of 47!

    The players have a word for him. They say he lives on “Planet Ivanchuk”. (Laughs) … I have seen him totally drunk and singing Ukrainian poetry and then the next day I have seen him give an impressive talk…

    Many of his games are legendary, and he is often referred to as a ‘chess genius’ among his peers.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  81. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Should be ‘Carlsen’ not ‘Carlson’. Oops!

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  82. @Mr. Hack

    It’s not a big deal. Means the same thing.

    The Danes and Norwegians do -sen, we do -son or -sson.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Reg Cæsar
  83. If you compare members of the 6th form at Eton then their differences in IQ are possibly genetic. They have spent their lives since 7 years old in very similar educational circumstances.

    If you compare members of year whatever, previously the 5th form in Consett or Ebbw Vale then some of their differences in IQ could perhaps be genetic but environments would vary.

    If you compare the Etonians with the Consettians IQ is meaningless. It is even less meaningless applied to other cultures whatever the alphabet you use, shape fitting being just another alphabet with greater meaning for some rather than others. Who needs to think in abstract terms when hunting a rabbit or hoeing a field anyway?

    IQ tests can reveal genetic differences in very narrowly defined cultural groups. Extending this to “national” IQs is ridiculous.

  84. Mr. Hack says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Just checked and Carlsen is still the undisputed best in the world today with a ranking of 2840 (!).

    Big Chuckie is slumming at #34, with a ranking of 2708. Let’s face it, it’s a young man’s game today, although Carlsen is poised to be around for quite some time yet (I think that he’s still in his 20′s).

  85. AP says:
    @Mr. XYZ

    I don’t think that IQ with respect to Galicia vs. other provinces, or Yaroslavl oblast in Russia vs. other oblasts, reflects genetics. Rather, the effects of achieving literacy earlier carry on in subsequent generations (perhaps affecting local culture, attitude towards knowledge and education, etc.).

    You see that Russian provinces that had higher levels of literacy in 1897 have higher scores on achievement tests today. Galicia, which achieved a high level of literacy in 1900 relative to other parts of Ukraine, is an IT center, has very high % of the population with post-secondary degrees, etc. Next-door Volyn does not.

  86. OT Colonel Cassad has an interesting article on the closure of the 290 year old publishing house, associated with the Russian Academy of Science, Nauka.

    It seems that this is the result of typical post-Soviet shinanigans, involving shell companies etc, plus a rather odd decision by the Academy that publishing journals is not a core competency.

    I guess this is another example of Putin’s indifference to Russian science.

  87. Anon 2 says:

    There has been an exponential increase in the Belarusians’ interest in
    Poland, particularly since Belarus was hit by a recession. Evidence: Growing
    numbers of guest workers from Belarus (and Russia), although still small
    compared to those from Ukraine. There is an amusing video on YouTube,
    “Białorusinka podrywa Polaków na ulicy” (Belarusian girl is trying
    to pick up Polish guys in the street). It shows a good-looking Belarusian girl
    in Gdańsk accosting men using impeccable Polish (as well as excellent English)
    and trying to get their phone numbers. The viewers, but not the men, however
    know beforehand that the whole thing is staged in the style of Candid Camera
    (U.S. TV show). In America it’s well known that many college girls make monthly
    trips to Las Vegas to turn a few tricks which may be enough to cover their tuition
    and lodging expenses. In the U.S. there was an estimate that 15% of women between
    the ages of 15 and 25 derive some income from sex (which may include things like
    topless dancing). So it’s not surprising that a significant number of men in the
    video acted suspicious and refused to divulge their phone numbers. The fact that the
    girl spoke impeccable Polish points to the large number of Belarusians who have
    Polish ancestry. I personally have distant relatives (by marriage not by blood) who
    visit Belarus every summer to stay in touch with the Belarusian Polonia who have
    remained there after 1939. Of course, Belarus was an important part of the Polish-
    Lithuanian Commonwealth, and every Polish child knows that the Polish bard
    Adam Mickiewicz (1798-1855) was born in Zaosie (Zavosse), not far from Brest.

    • Replies: @AP
  88. Anon 2 says:

    There is a young Belarusian woman whom I had already mentioned
    in one of my posts. She was born and raised in Moscow of Belarusian
    parents but at 17-18 she (and her brother) decided to get “Karta Polaka”
    (Polonia Card) based on sufficient Polish ancestry and knowledge of
    Polish language and culture. They are both now in Warsaw while the parents
    have remained in Moscow. The girl still visits Moscow but prefers Warsaw
    for many reasons: 1. Climate is warmer in winter; 2. She likes to be
    close to nature which is easier in Warsaw with its many parks and smaller
    size. In Moscow, she says, you are always surrounded by asphalt and concrete
    and it takes forever to get to the outer suburbs to commune with nature; 3. She
    is afraid of the feral dogs that run in packs in Moscow; 4. She says that Moscow
    is in the middle of nowhere whereas she likes to visit Italy and France which are
    closer to Poland; 5. Interestingly (and showing that women have their own
    peculiar reasons why they think one place is more civilized than another) she
    is very impressed by the fact that in Warsaw’s parks she has observed many
    husbands playing with their kids, and not just the wives. She says she hasn’t seen
    much of that in Moscow.

  89. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Dmitry

  90. AP says:
    @Anon 2

    In America it’s well known that many college girls make monthly trips to Las Vegas to turn a few tricks which may be enough to cover their tuition and lodging expenses. In the U.S. there was an estimate that 15% of women between the ages of 15 and 25 derive some income from sex (which may include things like topless dancing)

    Sorry, but these statements are rather dubious.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  91. AP says:
    @melanf

    Ukrainian university entrance examination results in 2016.

    People with the top scores, by oblast:

    http://testportal.gov.ua/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Reg_pokaz.pdf

    Kiev City has the most people who got the top score.

    Second place was Lviv oblast.

    Third place was Kharkiv oblast.

    • Agree: Anatoly Karlin
    • Replies: @melanf
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  92. Anon 2 says:
    @AP

    Any frequent visitor to Vegas (and not just Vegas, but also Atlantic City,
    Lake Tahoe, etc) will confirm that. A single guy cannot spend much time in
    Vegas without being accosted by “ladies of the evening.” Every major casino
    automatically provides high rollers with prostitutes. I’ll grant you that the
    situation is not as bad as in Waikiki Beach (Honolulu) or Shinjuku (Tokyo),
    where the moment you leave your hotel, you will be immediately in danger of
    being pestered by streetwalkers. It happened to me, and websites like Tripadvisor
    confirm it’s a common experience among male tourists.

    15% is the figure I saw in a reputable publication a few years ago. Granted, those
    percentages do increase during recessions. For example, during the Great Recession
    of 2007-8 it was widely reported that the number of women looking for
    “sugar daddies” suddenly skyrocketed as evidenced by traffic at certain
    websites. Correspondingly, in times of prosperity those figures go down.
    In Poland, a certain percentage of female college students look for what they call
    “sponsorship.” That is the girls provide regular sexual services to 3-4 businessmen
    in exchange for room and board in central Warsaw. I’m sure something similar
    exists in every country in Europe.

    • Replies: @Polish Perspective
  93. melanf says:
    @AP

    @melanf
    Ukrainian university entrance examination results in 2016.
    People with the top scores, by oblast:

    For what purpose do you give me this information? What does this have to do with literacy in the 19th century?

    Regarding the IQ discussion: your table clearly shows the strong intellectual dominance of Eastern Ukraine (Donetsk region (!!!) – 49, Volyn oblast – 43, etc.) I am absolutely not a supporter of the ideas of the hereditary stupidity of the “true Ukrainians”. However, your table is a serious argument for supporters of such idea

    • Replies: @AP
  94. @AP

    Thanks, and congratulations on the correct predictions.

    Interesting data, though we also need to calculate per capita figures. Still clear that Kiev, Lvov, Kharkov are at the top.

    I’m assuming that LDNR pupils are not doing this ЗНО, so real (absolute) score of Donetsk should be close to that of Dnepropetrovsk (considering that the major urban center is within the LDNR).

    Lugansk’s poor performance is not surprising. I have often cited observations that even within the LDNR, the DNR is better run than the LNR.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @melanf
    , @AP
  95. melanf says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Lugansk’s poor performance is not surprising. I have often cited observations that even within the LDNR, the DNR is better run than the LNR

    According to this strange logic – Crimea is worse than Lugansk?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  96. @melanf

    How so?

    Crimea in any case cannot be compared to the LDNR, it being within Russia.

    • Replies: @melanf
  97. @Anon 2

    Girls provide regular sexual services to 3-4 businessmen
    in exchange for room and board in central Warsaw. I’m sure something similar exists in every country in Europe.

    I do remember reading about American college women selling sex to pay for their tuition. And most don’t even go that far. These days you can be a camwhore and do it profitably. There’s even a new breed of camwhores, twitchthots. Basically, you don’t show your naked body but you dress extremely sluttily and then just rake in the betabux from incels. And people say women are the disadvantaged gender.

    There has been an exponential increase in the Belarusians’ interest in
    Poland, particularly since Belarus was hit by a recession. Evidence: Growing numbers of guest workers from Belarus (and Russia), although still small compared to those from Ukraine.

    Indeed, the numbers are growing very rapidly. I like both Belarussians and Ukrainians. I wouldn’t mind seeing even Russians either, and I think many Poles would have far less Russophobia if they had more contact with Russians and not just blindly accept the alarmist media coverage and the fearmongering coming from the government. I’m going to visit Russia next year most likely after Ukraine this summer. I find that a lot of Poles go to Ukraine but there is still a resistance to go to Russia. I’m personally working on several people in my social circle to break down that stigma.

    As an aside, anyone interested in these statistics can visit this website:

    https://migracje.gov.pl/en/ <— English
    https://migracje.gov.pl/ru/ <— Russian

    The growth for Belarussians is very palpatable. It is matched only by Indians, which is also something you see (most of them tend to be delivery boys for UberEats and similar services and a smaller amount are IT workers).

    I’ve long maintained that though we are unlikely to get much refugees, we will still get many work-related migrants, much like Germany had their gastarbeiter in the 1960s. Indeed, the process has been underway for a decade but got derailed by the recession. PiS has not really slowed that process down. I expect Warsaw’s demographics to look like Moscow’s in maybe 10-15 years, though only in relation to race. Religion-wise, it will be far less muslim. (Then, if we are to believe AP, Central Asians are mostly mollified at any rate).

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  98. melanf says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    How so?
    Crimea in any case cannot be compared to the LDNR, it being within Russia.

    For the same reason it is absolutely meaningless to compare Lugansk and Donetsk region by Ukrainian university entrance examination.

    • Replies: @AP
  99. melanf says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Here is a table of the results of the Ukrainian university entrance examination (the number of students who scored the highest score) by region.

    Blue-Eastern Ukraine, Yellow-Western Ukraine, red-rebellious Donetsk and Luhansk regions (most of whose population is not controlled by Kiev and for this is not included in the table)
    White- Kiev city and Kiev region (it is a border region (between East and West) , and as the capital has special preferences)

    If it was possible to clear the table from the language factor, as well as from the ” achievements ” in the field of national-onanism ( humanitarian “Patriotic” pseudoscience), the domination of the East would be overwhelming.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  100. melanf says:

    As an aside, anyone interested in these statistics can visit this website:
    https://migracje.gov.pl/en/ <— English
    https://migracje.gov.pl/ru/ <— Russian

    For what period of time are counted, the number of migrants? The map says 2018, but the number of migrants is absolutely incredible for the 4 months of 2018.

    • Replies: @Polish Perspective
  101. AP says:
    @melanf

    I always said Galicia was near the top, western Ukraine outside Galicia was at the bottom. And the results match what I stated and match 19th century literacy data.

  102. AP says:
    @melanf

    For what purpose do you give me this information? What does this have to do with literacy in the 19th century?

    It matches AK’s observed trend in Russia – 19th century literacy predicts 21st century test performance.

    Regarding the IQ discussion: your table clearly shows the strong intellectual dominance of Eastern Ukraine (Donetsk region (!!!) – 49, Volyn oblast – 43, etc.)

    As I said, Galicia achieved a relatively high level of literacy in 1900, Volynia did not (it was among the most illiterate parts of the Russian Empire).

    Based on this, one would expect Lviv oblast (Galicia) to do very well, and Volyn oblast to be among the worst performing in Ukraine. And that is exactly how it is.

    For purposes of academic or intellectual achievement, “western Ukraine” is not a single entity. There is high-performing Galicia and low-performing Volyn and Transcarpathia. Central and Eastern Ukrainian regions are between these extremes.

  103. AP says:
    @melanf

    These are the parts under control of the Ukrainian government plus refugees from those parts living in Ukraine and taking part in exams, I think.

  104. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Per capita makes Lviv look better.

    Lviv oblast has 2.5 million people, Kharkiv oblast 2.7 million and Dnipropetrovsk oblast 3.3 million people.

    It improves, somewhat, the figures for other Western Ukrainian regions and Ukrainian-controlled Donbas. Transcarpathia only has a million people.

    But even then Transcarpathian oblast, across the Carpathians from Lviv, performs terribly. It has a million people. If you multiply its number by 3 it is still about 1/3 that of Kharkiv (with about 3 times more people) and 1/4 that of Lviv.

    People who refer vaguely to “Western Ukraine” as uneducated either are ignorant of the large differences between western Ukrainian historical regions – understandable – or are being less than honest.

  105. @melanf

    An important point: These are not adjusted for per capita, and population of Blue states seem larger on average than Orange ones.

    Here is how it looks per capita:

    Kyiv 104.2452507
    Lviv 91.55124107
    Kharkiv 63.10195948 – BLUE
    Chernihiv 58.69899923
    Sumy 56.81305799
    Cherkasy 46.88384124
    Kyiv 46.73166792
    Dnipropetrovsk 45.95078024 – BLUE
    Ivano-Frankivsk 44.89175295
    Rivne 43.87851673
    Volynsky 41.27471684
    Poltava 39.77946821
    Ternopil 39.53313253
    Zaporizhzhya 38.93278369 – BLUE
    Zhytomyrska 36.17363344
    Vinnitsa 33.20177911
    Kherson 32.10576015 – BLUE
    Khmelnitsky 31.01256009
    Odessa 30.98308491 – BLUE
    Nikolaev 28.59123202 – BLUE
    Kirovogradskaya 18.56627127
    Transcarpathian 18.26846704
    Chernivetska 17.60176018
    Donetsk 11.51694636 – LDNR
    Luhansk 5.453801754 – LDNR
    Ukraine 43.09567051

    I mentioned that the LDNR results are not comparable; probably Donetsk proper would be around Odessa level, and Lugansk… still near the bottom.

    Of course as you correctly point out the results would still need to be adjusted for language and cultural factors.

    In particular, it would be good to have results for top scorers per capita (or average) score for subjects other than: Ukrainian language/literature/history, and Russian language. Preferable something just entirely neutral such as Math.

    Some results are given here: http://testportal.gov.ua/reg/

    The early years are in .exe files that I am reluctant to open, while 2016-17 is in a text format that Excel doesn’t automatically decode.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @melanf
  106. AP says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    I’m not surprised that Lviv bests Volyn and Rivne but I am surprised that those two are still at average. I’m not surprised by poor Transcarpathia towards the bottom.

    Chernihiv and Sumy did very well. They were the centers of the old Hetmanate:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_Hetmanate

    Its capital was in Hlukhiv, Sumy oblast, a center of Ukrainian Cossack baroque architecture and birthplace of renowned composer Maxim Berezovsky and of Alexander Bezborodko, the Grand Chancellor of Russia and architect of Catherine the Great’s foreign policy.

    Ukrainian language/literature/history

    Ukrainian language would indeed be a factor. though not a huge one. The languages are fairly similar (it’s not like Estonian vs Russian) and at this point the children have been taught in Ukrainian in most regions for most of their school career.

    As for literature/history, this has been taught in all the schools and kids ought to know it, regardless of region, if only to do well on tests. Blaming poor performance in these subjects on the fact that they involve Ukrainian stuff is akin to claiming that black kids in the USA don’t do well on academic subjects simply because the curriculum involves too many dead white people.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  107. melanf says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    An important point: These are not adjusted for per capita, and population of Blue states seem larger on average than Orange ones.

    Well, it’s better to count not per capita, but per number of students who graduated from school. The demographic situation in different regions of Ukraine is very different

    Add a curious picture – Here is a map of the number of scientific publications on 10 000 population, from Patriotic Ukrainian sources

    • Replies: @AP
  108. AP says:
    @melanf

    Bottom graph is from years when Yanukovich and many of his officials were getting publications.

    University ranking:

    https://www.4icu.org/ua/

    Kiev 1-3; Lviv #4.

    Kiev and Lviv at the top here also:

    https://www.mastersportal.com/ranking-country/29/ukraine.html

    The coding competition also had Lviv at the top among Ukrainian schools (one year, #11 in the world).

    • Replies: @melanf
  109. melanf says:
    @AP

    Bottom graph is from years when Yanukovich and many of his officials were getting publications.

    Yanukovych’s publications of course seriously change statistics :)

    • Replies: @AP
    , @AP
  110. @melanf

    For what period of time are counted

    You can either select a full year (on the menu to the left) or leave it at default, which means 2018, when it only count up until now. You can also compare between time periods. See this:

    (click to enlarge)

    That is only for Mazovia(where Warsaw is located) and the 2017 data is obviously not the full year but only the comparable period.

    the number of migrants is absolutely incredible for the 4 months of 2018

    Keep in mind that this includes all migrants, including EU migrants and short-term students. That said, Poland did issue the most work-related first residency permits of any EU nation in 2016.

    (click to enlarge).

    We in fact issues more first permanent residence than Germany, despite them being 2X bigger than us in population. Though there is a complication here. First residence visas does not include EU nationals and Germany gets a ton of those and we don’t. So if you’d add those, Germany will come out ahead in gross total numbers. Still, on a per capita basis, I’d estimate that we give about as many work visas as the Germans when you include both EU and non-EU.

    (click to enlarge)

    That’s per capita rates for all first residency permits, but note that this includes all types of permits, so Sweden will have a high share of refugee-related permits. Almost 90% of our permits are work-related.

  111. Mikhail says: • Website
    @AP

    On the use of “fairly” and “very close”:

    Ukrainian language would indeed be a factor. though not a huge one. The languages are fairly similar (it’s not like Estonian vs Russian) and at this point the children have been taught in Ukrainian in most regions for most of their school career.

    Noting your other statement saying “Ukrainian very close to Polish”. Never minding that the material you gave (which isn’t in agreement with most, saying that Ukrainian is closer to Russian than it is to Polish) gives a limited difference (70% to 62% with no margin of error addressed), when comparing the closeness between Polish and Ukrainian versus Ukrainian and Russian.

    In line with your other comments as noted here:

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/no-victory/#comment-2328482

    The simpleton delivery of labeling someone stupid, dull and boring (all of which can be said of you BTW) without substance doesn’t convince intelligently objective folks.

  112. AP says:
    @melanf

    Do you think he was the only one?

  113. Anon 2 says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Belarus is an interesting case. It was heavily polonized (with many Polish settlers)
    in the 16th and 17th centuries when it became part of the Polish-Lithuanian
    Commonwealth. Then in the 19th and 20th centuries it was heavily russified.
    It would be tempting to say that today Belarus is torn between Russia and Poland
    but that would be a gross exaggeration. The fact that the Belarusians speak an
    Eastern Slavonic language, use Cyrillic alphabet and wide-gauge rails, and practice
    Orthodox Christianity (although having been subjected to decades of Marxist
    indoctrination, their religious impulse was probably largely extinguished) means
    that they are culturally much closer to Russia than Poland. Still, the fact that since
    1945 thousands of Belarusians from the western parts of the country have been visiting
    their relatives in Poland (and vice versa) must have had some effect, particularly
    when they see how quickly Poland has become an affluent-looking country.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  114. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Anon 2

    Keeping in mind that Belarus is an integral related part of the Rus entity, much unlike Poland. There’s a map Rus’ territory showing that there was an instance when the area of modern day Belarus constituted more of Rus than what was the case with the land making up the former Ukrainian SSR.

    There’s a good sized ethnic Polish minority in Belarus, greatly situated in Grodno.

    A few years back, the BBC (if I correctly recall) had an interesting segment noting that Belarusian travel to Lithuania was potentially being curtailed by the Lithuanian authorities and not the Belarusian government. That matter and the one you bring up about back and forth travel involving Belarus and Poland reveal two things:

    - there’s not such a mass exodus out of Belarus to the West
    - life in Belarus is obviously not so bad.

    I know a US based Belarusian-Jewish oncologist, who has a father in Belarus. The latter can migrate to America as the son wants. The father prefers to stay put. His son visits him every two years.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  115. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    Keeping in mind that Belarus is an integral related part of the Rus entity

    an integral related part of the Rus entity

    What ‘Rus entity’?

    You’ve got to be kidding? Further proof that you live in some kind of a medieval time warp. There hasn’t been a ‘Rus entity’ since the 13th century, and even then it was a loose federation of 12-14 separate principalities. The only thing that held them ‘together’ was their propensity to conduct war amongst themselves.

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  116. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    I haven’t said anything erroneous.

    They didn’t always fight with each other. Modern day Russia, Ukraine and Belarus see themselves as being descended from that entity – much unlike Poland.

    Pretty rich of you to say that I’m living in a time warp, given your prior rambling about centuries of Russian imperialism against Ukraine blah, blah, blah…

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  117. @Thorfinnsson

    The Danes and Norwegians do -sen, we do -son or -sson.

    In parts of the US, Norwegians will do -son if there are a lot of Danes nearby.

    Also, most Swedish-American families dropped one of the Ss. Tweak one or two other letters, and these Swedes are Johnson, Anderson, Nelson, and thus indistinguishable from those of English and Scottish ancestry. As common as those names are all across America, they rank a few spots higher in the Upper Midwest, Plains, and Northwest.

    Harry Nilsson was a notable exception, but he was from New York City.

  118. If the Minskies were all that bright, they’d ask us to call their country “White Russia”, as is done in nearly all the neighboring countries. “Belarus” sounds like a cheap snowmobile in English.

  119. Bigly says:
    @Mikhail

    Can you translate the names of the countries in the left column?

    Ukraine
    Kazakhstan
    Tajikistan
    Armenia
    Uzbekistan
    Moldova
    ?
    Kyrgyzstan
    Belarus
    Georgia
    Turkmenistan
    Turkey
    ?

    Regarding Kazakhstan, how many of those 40,718 immigrants who received citizenship are ethnic Russians, Ukrainians, Germans or a mix thereof — as opposed to Kazakhs and mixed Eurasians? Can an educated guess be made?

    The Chinese are nowhere to be seen. People who know better have been saying for years that the Chinese takeover of the Far East is a myth. The ones who are there can be counted in two categories: temporary workers and businessmen.

    This graphic is for 2017 alone, right?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
    , @Mikhail
    , @A.A.
  120. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    Pretty rich of you to say that I’m living in a time warp, given your prior rambling about centuries of Russian imperialism against Ukraine blah, blah, blah…

    Rich or poor, the Ukrainian language and its culture has been impeded going way back for several centuries during its association with Russia:

    1622 – Decree (ukase) of Tsar Michael on a petition of the Moscow Patriarch Filaret to burn in the Tsardom of Muscovy all copies of Didatic gospels (uk) printed by Cyril Stavrovetsky (Wikidata).[1]
    1690 – Condemnation and anathema of the Council of the ROC for “new Kievan books” by Petro Mohyla, Cyril Stavrovetsky, Symeon of Polotsk, Lazar Baranovych, Antonius Radivilovsky (Wikidata) and others.[citation needed]
    18th century
    1720 – Peter I’s decree banning the printing press in the Ukrainian language and Ukrainian texts seizure of church books.[citation needed]
    1729 – Peter II ordered to rewrite the Ukrainian into Russian all decrees and orders.[citation needed]
    1763 – Catherine II decree banning the teaching in Ukrainian in Kiev-Mohyla Academy.[citation needed]
    1769 – Prohibition of the Synod of Ukrainian print and use the primer.[citation needed]
    1775 – The destruction of the Zaporozhian Sich and closed Ukrainian schools at the offices of the Cossack regiment.[citation needed]
    1789 – Disposal of the Polish Sejm Commission Education the closure of all Ukrainian schools.[citation needed]
    19th century
    1817 – Introduction of the Polish language in all public schools in nowadays Western Ukraine.[citation needed]
    1832 – Reorganization of education in Ukraine on the empire-wide principles and transform all teaching into Russian language[citation needed]
    1847 – The crackdown of the Brotherhood of Cyril and Methodius and increased persecution of the Ukrainian language and culture, the prohibition of the best works of Shevchenko, Kulish, Kostomarov and others.[citation needed]
    1859 – Ministry of Religion and Science of Austria-Hungary in Eastern Galicia and Bukovyna attempt to replace Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabet with Latin.[citation needed]
    1862 – Closing free Sunday Ukrainian schools for adults in the Russian part of Ukraine.[citation needed]
    1863 – Valuev Circular banning censors to give permissions for Ukrainian spiritual and popular educational literature: “there was no and could not have been a separate Little Russian language”[citation needed]
    1864 – Adoption of the Charter of the primary school at which education was to be conducted only in Russian.[citation needed]
    1869 – Introduction of the Polish language as the official language of education and the administration of Polish Eastern Galicia.[citation needed]
    1870 – Comment of Minister of Education of Russia Dmitry Tolstoy that “the ultimate goal of education for all inorodtsy (non-Russians, literally “people of other descent”) is unarguably to be Russification.”[citation needed]
    1876 – Alexander II’s Ems decree banning the printing and import from abroad of any Ukrainian literature, and to ban Ukrainian stage performances and Ukrainian lyrics in music scores, that is folk songs.[2]
    1881 – Prohibition of teaching in the public schools and uttering church sermons in Ukrainian.[citation needed]
    1884 – Alexander III ban Ukrainian theater in all the provinces of Little Russia.[citation needed]
    1888 – Alexander III decree banning the use of the Ukrainian language in official institutions and baptism Ukrainian names.[citation needed]
    1892 – Prohibition to translate books from Russian into Ukrainian.[citation needed]
    1895 – Prohibition by the Main Administration of Printing to publish Ukra<

    Why would any Ukrainian want to go back to this kind of humiliation? A you can see,,Ukrainians are a tough lot, still here,and are built to stay for the long haul. .

    • Replies: @Mikhail
  121. Dmitry says:
    @Bigly

    Note the obtaining Russian citizenship is only (over 200 people per year) from countries with a GDP per capita lower than Russia, although at least with Kazakhstan the differential is small (a lot of the ‘immigrants’ from Kazakhstan are Russian nationality Kazakhstani citizens coming back).

    Same story around the world – unless they’re fleeing war or something, you only get immigrants from countries poorer than your own. Always these ‘poor immigrants’ from dysfunctional countries, rather than from successful countries.

    -

    Also note the process – it’s people who choose to take Russian citizenship after living in Russia for 5 years, or 3 years if they are married to a Russian citizen, (which is often through marriages arranged especially for purpose of obtaining Russian citizenship – a huge underground business).

    Euromaidan was still only 4 years ago, so the numbers of Ukrainian citizens attaining Russian citizenship will surely continue to surge from 2019.

  122. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    No link to that propaganda screed you cut and pasted.

    Yes, your stubborn narrow minded approach has lingered on. No one of reason who thinks along my lines is saying to exactly go back to the way things were. That said, we’re also not buying into the kind of myth making that you spew. Like it or not, numerous folks from Ukraine (ethnic Ukrainians included) agree.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  123. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Bigly

    If I’m correctly understanding you, Azerbaijan is the first ? with Afghanistan being the second.

    Regarding Kazakhstan, you can throw in people of Polish and Belarusian backgrounds as well. Yes, a good number from the northern half of Kazakhstan (AKA by some as southern Siberia) have Russian speaking Slavic roots. They’ve constituted much of Kazakhstan’s post-Soviet population move to Russia.

    Yes, that chart seems to be premised on 2017 alone – especially when taking into consideration what’s listed here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Russia

    Keep in mind that there’s the matter of actively seeking Russian citizenship versus those with a temporary status in Russia, that might not include seeking full Russian citizenship. According to some, that especially applies to a good number of Chinese. I’d have to look into that and related matters further.

    • Replies: @Bigly
  124. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    The great majority, unfortunately for you, do not wish to be in any union with Russia. Putin’s listless Eurasian Union lost out in popularity to the European Union in 2014, have you forgot already? Nobody, except for unemployed geeks like you makes any noise to the contrary today. Here’s the citation for my ‘factual or fact based’ chronology (sound familiar?) of Ukrainian/Russian historic encounters:

    http://www.ukemonde.com/communist_files/evil_of_communism.html

    I didn’t include the chronology detailing communist malfeasance in Ukraine, because everyone knows that the Soviet Union wasn’t run by Russians for the benefit of Russia, right?

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
    , @Mikhail
  125. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    You more befit the image of an unemployed geek.

    Svido sources like Day are hardly convincing for those seeking relatively objective, fact based material. Your initial cut and paste, had instances where specific citations were missing. In any event, the whole thing in totality comes across as an overly editorialized and inaccurate propaganda screed.

    In 2014, there was a coup against a democratically elected Ukrainian president, followed by the elevation of extreme nationalists that sought anti-Russian activity – which in turn, prompted an understandable backlash, thereby explaining the Crimean and Donbass situations.

    Prior to the aforementioned coup, public opinion polls in Ukraine were close on whether to join the EU or Russian involved ECU. EU membership is problematical, given that the EU doesn’t offer Ukraine full fledged membership – with many reasonably believing that won’t happen in the foreseeable future, if ever.

    His faults aside, Yanukovych sought a better deal with the EU, in addition to seeking some limited Ukrainian involvement in the ECU.

  126. Mikhail says: • Website
    @Mr. Hack

    That link starts off with the note that its contents has multiple issues – meaning that it conforms to your put mildly dubious biases.

    Not everyone involved with Wiki is a svido, or subconsciously very much influenced by such. I’ve comes across some at Wiki, who sincerely make the effort of being factual and reasonably objective.

    • Replies: @Mr. Hack
  127. Mr. Hack says:

    Are there any specific events or dates that you find questionable?

  128. @Dmitry

    In Belarus, beauty pageant contestants are engaged in enthusiastic and patriotic subbotnik activities.

    That’s nice, and I like the Belarusian Republican Youth Union provided uniforms. The classic blue jeans look is something you don’t see often now.

  129. Mr. Hack says:
    @Mikhail

    Are there any specific events or dates that you find questionable?

  130. Bigly says:
    @Mikhail

    Keep in mind that there’s the matter of actively seeking Russian citizenship versus those with a temporary status in Russia, that might not include seeking full Russian citizenship. According to some, that especially applies to a good number of Chinese. I’d have to look into that and related matters further.

    What is the difference between “full citizenship” and “citizenship”? Less than 80 Chinese nationals received Russian citizenship in 2017. I’m aware that citizenship (after long-term residence) and temporary immigration are different categories. The Chinese are overwhelmingly temporary workers, which is why they are not even in the top 20.

    Here’s the graphic again:

    It’s my understanding that this graphic is about foreign nationals who received citizenship in 2017, or am I wrong?

    Honestly, I still think that too many nonwhites (mostly Asians) and people of dubious genetic makeup are getting Russian citizenship. Based on that graphic, I calculate that 140~150k nonwhites, the equivalent of about 0.1% of the Russian population, were added as citizens in 2017. The phenomenon is much more recent than nonwhite immigration to the Anglosphere and Western Europe: it was not until the early 2000s that Central Asian labour in Russia became a thing, and the numbers are still small considering Russia’s population size, but I can’t say I’m confident about the country’s future if this trend of nonwhite nationals obtaining citizenship continues. I would like to see the stats for the previous 20 years, but I have no idea where to look.

    This is a job for Karlin to do. Forget about the ethnic makeup of Russia, or immigration per se… just write an article about the countries of origin of the immigrants who received citizenship in 2017, 2016, 2015 and so on. Should be relatively easy for him, and they more than anything will affect that future racial makeup of Russia.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  131. Dmitry says:
    @Bigly

    These are just foreigners receiving Russian citizenship (by naturalization), it’s a small fraction of actual immigration.

    With Eurasian Economic Union, since 2015 , Armenians and citizens of Kazakhstan don’t need citizenship to live and work unlimited and freely in the Russian Federation , with no work permit, so I’m not even sure why there is motive for so many Armenians getting Russian citizenship.

    As for the countries. Only people from countries with lower GDP per capita are getting Russian citizenship in a noticeable way (over 200 a year).

    This is because people – as a rule around the world – only immigrate in significant numbers from poorer countries to richer countries.

    How Russia is going to receive aristocrats from Norway, Luxembourg and Switzerland?

    It’s only people from poor countries who want to immigrate permanently to Russia, not wealthy European ones. Because people only immigrate to countries richer than their own.

    The most crazy thing in this statistic is the amount of Armenians getting citizenship (even despite being in the Customs Union).

    A little under 1% of the whole population of Armenia received Russian citizenship, just in year 2017 (and this is only small fraction of Armenians immigrating in Russia and not wanting citizenship).

    . Should be relatively easy for him, and they more than anything will affect that future racial makeup of Russia.

    The differential fertility rates within the country probably have more impact than some couple hundred thousand people getting citizenship each year – although the former only shows up after generations.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  132. Anon 2 says:

    I find that even my well-educated American friends don’t understand
    countries like Belarus, Slovakia or Ukraine, that is countries that didn’t
    even exist prior to 1914. Americans generally have high expectations
    of white countries. For white countries to suddenly appear on the map
    in the 20th century (or to still be poor) means to them that there is something
    profoundly wrong with their inhabitants. They typically ask, “How come
    their national consciousness was so slow to develop?” They are used to nations that have existed since the birth of modern Europe,
    i.e., 800-900 AD, that is nations like England, France, Italy, Germany,
    Poland, Bohemia, etc

  133. @Dmitry

    Russia will never receive large numbers of immigrants from wealthier countries for obvious reasons, but Russia could receive entrepreneurial immigrants from wealthier countries if Russia were well-known as an entrepreneurs’ paradise.

    Which, of course, it is not.

  134. A.A. says:
    @Bigly

    >Regarding Kazakhstan, how many of those 40,718 immigrants who received citizenship are ethnic Russians, Ukrainians, Germans or a mix thereof — as opposed to Kazakhs and mixed Eurasians? Can an educated guess be made?

    Kazakhstan keeps track on ethnicity of their migrants (very handy). I’m sure there’s under-reporting of people emigrating, but I expect the proportions of ethnicities to remain more or less the same. Overwhelming majority of emigrants from Kazakhstan are Slavic.

    For example, according to official data in 2015, 30.000 people emigrated from Kazakhstan. Out of those, 25,6 thousands left for Russia (2k to Germany, 605 people to Belarus and so on). More than 21.000 emigrants were ethnic Russians, followed by 2,3 thousand Germans, 2 thousand Ukrainians and 1,4 thousand Kazakhs.

    https://365info.kz/2016/04/vse-bolshe-kazahstantsev-emigriruet-za-rubezh-komstat/

    Also, an interesting note on Uzbekistan. I’ve recently watched on youtube a talk by a professor from St Pete on Central Asian migration to Russia. He has seen the lists of names of those people who are granted Russian citizenship and according to him, a majority of Uzbekistanis receiving Russian passports are from “Russian-speaking” ethnicities. That means mostly ethnic Russians, Ukrainians and Koreans. While the ones from Tajikistan are indeed overwhelmingly ethnic Tajiks. That makes sense considering the ethnic composition of those two countries.

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