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American vs. Russian Anti-Semitism
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There’s one crucial difference, and not many people seem to recognize its importance.

“ZOG” pretty much controls the US, which has recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital in defiance of the rest of the world (and 63% of US voters), curtailed its otherwise extensive freedom of speech protections by criminalizing the BDS movement, and whose Conservatism Inc. division shuts down questions about the USS Liberty meme as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. The social pressure against discussing these basic questions and the genuine fervor with which many American boomercon normies support the “greatest ally” rhetoric must make things even more enraging.

Conversely, ZOG doesn’t rule Russia. The power of the Jewish Lobby in Russia is so modest that even the Armenians have more influence (Foreign Minister – Lavrov, RT head honcho – Simonyan, etc).

Sometimes, things really are as simple as they seem. This succinctly explains why the Alt Right in the US is obsessed with Jews, whereas Russian nationalists generally are not.

This was not always the case. In the 1990s, when “ZOG” did have large influence over Russia (see Semibankirschina), the “patriotic opposition” movements were dominated by entities such as National Bolsheviks and various other “red-brownists”. But since then, the political influence of the Jewish oligarchs has been severely curtailed, so much so that it has long ceased to make sense to even call them “oligarchs.” In the most comprehensive ethnic survey of Russian oligarchs to date, Jews made up 20% of the individual billionaires and 25% of their aggregate capital. Massively disproportional relative to their share of the population, to be sure, but nonetheless cardinally different from the situation two decades ago. And, needless to say, Russia doesn’t serve as Israel’s bulldog on the international arena.

Consequently, there’s no reason for Russian nationalists to try to make political hay out of the Jewish Question, when there exist multiple other objectively much more pressing and important issues, such as the plight of ethnic Russians in the Donbass and in the Near Abroad, internal ethnic relations, Central Asian immigration, etc. (you might very well think that these priorities are misplaced, but that is irrelevant to reality). The old, counter-Semitic nationalist organizations like Pamyat are almost all dead or as close to it as makes no difference. Israel Shamir, who is perhaps the most visible “counter-Semite” in/around Russia today, is a Communist who splits his time between three countries and is much more invested into the global anti-imperialist struggle than he is into Russian national concerns (indeed, he is on record supporting Article 282, which has been used to lock up Russian nationalists for hate speech). Good for him – but his priorities are not the priorities of the vast majority of Russians.

Obviously, people such as Nick Fuentes or Andrew Anglin will have very different priorities.

This divergence between American and Russian nationalists on the Jewish Question is ironic in light of Russia being somewhat more “woke” on the JQ than the United States; according to its test of anti-Jewish attitudes, the ADL defines 10% of Americans as anti-Semites, vs. 31% of Russians according to the latest poll. Of course, since holding opinions such as “Jews have too much power in the business world”, this is more of a common sense test (folk wisdom) than on anti-Jewish attitudes as such. Commenter AP has suggested Russians may be brainwashed, because these scores are higher in purportedly based Poland (48%) and the Ukraine (46%). Perhaps so. OTOH, there has been a rather high-profile spat between Poland and Jewish organizations this past year over the latter’s demands for reparations, while Jewish oligarchs in the Ukraine retain disproportionate political, not just financial, power (the Jewish Zelensky’s main sponsor, to whom is beholden, is Igor Kolomoysky, who proudly skirts the laws against double citizenship by proudly proclaiming he has three). So those factors would be obvious confounders. Conversely, Czechia and the Balts are less anti-Semitic as per the ADL than Russia.

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Anti-Semitism, Jews, Russia, United States 
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  1. Please keep off topic posts to the current Open Thread.

    If you are new to my work, start here.

  2. Is there an IQ discrepancy between Russian Armenians and Armenian Armenians?

    • Replies: @Yevardian
  3. iffen says:

    The social pressure against discussing these basic questions

    The recognition of Jerusalem is not a “basic” question. It was a political bone thrown to his base.

    The freedom of speech/BDS is basic and will ultimately be resolved in favor of free speech if the cases make it to the Supreme Court before it is taken over and packed by the left totalitarians.

    A conspiracy meme is not basic.

    Enraging to whom?

    In a serious analysis and discussion are we given to understand that you will be championing the ADL’s propaganda as fact? Will you also start promoting the SPLC propaganda as fact?

    there’s no reason for Russian nationalists to try to make political hay out of the Jewish Question

    Corollary: There is reason for American nationalists to try to make political hay out of the JQ.

    Finally, blind pig, etc.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    , @Vendetta
    , @neutral
  4. I think the idea that Russians are generally anti-Semitic is something of a myth, propagated to a large extent by American/Western alt-right nationalists who would like to project their own values onto Russian nationalists. In reality Russian Jews seem highly integrated into mainstream Russian society, the average Russian appears to just see Russian Jews as simply fellow Russians.

    In general I don’t get the impression that Russian Jews are seen as particularly left wing or unpatriotic in Russia, unlike in the West.

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
    , @LondonBob
  5. @Patriot right

    It’s possible that the best and brightest of Russian Jews emigrated to the US and Israel during the two big waves in the 70s and 90s, leaving behind brainlets who can’t operate a proper ZoG

    • LOL: iffen, nokangaroos
  6. Dmitry says:

    disproportional relative to their share of the population, to be sure, but nonetheless different from the situation two decades ago

    You are sensitive to reduction in antisemitism levels, or discourse, that has happened, rather than some underlying economic reality changes. Jewish businessmen are more rich than two decades ago, and there are much more wealthy Jews than in the 1990s – also Jews are more open or visible in culture, in celebrities on television, than in 1990s and early 2000s.

    What has changed, is that two decades ago, there was a lot of antisemitism and talking about Jews.

    For example,- in the 1990s, Zhirinovsky was promoting antisemitic conspiracy theories and talking about how to stop Jews from conquering Russia, whereas today he has switched to promoting philosemitism.

    1990s antisemitism was high, and this continued with some inertial to the early 2000s. Whereas today, this is not fashionable and against official policy, so the topic went quiet.

    Israel is just a separate topic. Television in Russia became more pro-Israel around 10 years ago. This is probably a trivial generational change on this (not very important by world standard) topic, as old journalists retire. People like Sergey Pashkov became dominant in reports in Israel. Also pro or anti-Israel, is not necessarily related to Jews in a country – for example, all these post-Soviet countries are more pro-Israel than Russia – Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, etc.

    Russia’s position to Israel is more similar to a Western European country’s position (although the media in Russia is more pro-Israel compared to countries like UK or Spain, it’s more indicative of how Western European media began to falsify reports about Israel after adopting postcolonialism).

    when “ZOG” did have large influence over Russia (see Semibankirschina),

    In the 1990s, businessmen with Jewish roots were claiming to be religious Christians. Whereas today, they are openly Jewish and have things like Jewish schools and synagogues.

    Is this good or bad? The businessmen themselves are generally bad, due to the nature of the economy and how they became wealthy. However, multi-religious toleration in public discourse, is an indication that Russia became a basically normal developed country, with some separation of business from politics.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @AltSerrice
    , @iffen
  7. utu says:

    Low ‘anti-semitism’ index is the US is a classic example of false consciousness “where a subordinate class willfully embodies the ideology of the ruling class.” It suffices to look at the question used by ADL to determine the ‘anti-semitism’ index to see what actually the ADL score measure. It is not Jew hatred or anti-Judaism but it measures the level of awareness, the degree of perceptiveness of actual socio-political reality. For the US here are the results that produced the score of 10% in 2015:

    1 Jews are more loyal to Israel than to [this country/to the countries they live in] 33%
    2 Jews have too much power in the business world 16%
    3 Jews have too much power in international financial markets 16%
    4 Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust 20%
    5 Jews don’t care what happens to anyone but their own kind 13%
    6 Jews have too much control over global affairs 10%
    7 Jews have too much control over the United States government 12%
    8 Jews think they are better than other people 14%
    9 Jews have too much control over the global media 12%
    10 Jews are responsible for most of the world’s wars 5%
    11 People hate Jews because of the way Jews behave 14%

    If only 12% people respond to the question #9 positively then we are having 88% idiots in the US or 88% duplicitous opportunists who know what answer is the correct one.

    Only the question #10 may actually measure the degree of irrational animosity towards the Jews.

    At the other end of the spectrum the country with the highest wokeness index is Greece which according ADL is around 69%. Are Greeks the wokest because they have the longest uninterrupted history of knowing Jews in Europe? Do they have a memory of Kitos War or is it something more recent like Jewish collaboration with Turks? No other people in Europe before the Bolshevik Revolution suffered as much from Jewish hands as Greeks in the Itos War.

  8. melanf says:
    @Dmitry

    In the 1990s, businessmen with Jewish roots were claiming to be religious Christians

    And who exactly among the oligarchs of the 90s claiming to be religious Christians? As far as I’ve seen, these people are just gangsters, without any camouflage.
    Among ordinary exSoviet Jews (not gangsters), 90% are atheist / agnostic, but among a small portion of Soviet religious Jews, Christianity is probably more common than Judaism.

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  9. @Dmitry

    I think it is also worth noting that there are only 1/3 the number of Jews in Russia now as there were in 1990. Presumably 150k in a country of 147m is an insufficient number for large-scale influence, especially given many of top-tier Jews left the country.

    You also mention that Jewish oligarchs are richer now than twenty years ago, which is surely true in absolute terms, but no doubt their share of Russia’s wealth has diminished drastically as the economy grew and ordinary people became more prosperous. Not to mention some of the biggest ones; Khodorkovsky, Berezovsky, and Gusinsky have either fled or died.

    I would argue that simply the fact that Russia is improving positively year on year and maintains an independent foreign policy is proof enough that Jewish influence is not major.

    • Replies: @melanf
    , @Dmitry
  10. Lot says:

    AK, did you intentionally post a poll with an absurdly leading set of questions?

    Read it for yourself:

    https://criticalissues.umd.edu/sites/criticalissues.umd.edu/files/nov_2017_umcip_questionnaire_final_version.pdf

    The overly long question prompts repeatedly give the Pali/Euroweenie “illegal settlements” line, then heavily identify the Israeli position exclusively with Trump. The completely predictable result is that virtually nobody other than Trump supporters support the “illegal” and pro-Trump positions.

    These “push polls” can create any result you like.

    It also appears to be after 50 other political questions. Few people are willing to do polls that long, further creating an unrepresentative and meaningless result.

    Compare the questions from the Muslim guy at Saudi-funded Brookings to Gallup’s short and simple questions:

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/229199/americans-remain-staunchly-israel-corner.aspx

  11. Matra says:

    Are Russians, particularly nationalists, aware of the extreme animus towards their country from Jewish elements (Frum, Boot, Ioffe, etc) in the American media, or is that too ‘inside baseball’ even for politically aware Russians?

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  12. melanf says:
    @AltSerrice

    Presumably 150k in a country of 147m is an insufficient number for large-scale influence

    I don’t know how many Jews there are in Russia, but there are definitely many more than 150,000. Note that a very large part (probably the majority) of “Russian Jews” in official documents have a different nationality.

    • Replies: @Patriot right
  13. Mulegino1 says:

    So far as I know, Russians are not harangued on a day to day basis by a Jew owned and run media with respect to their “white privilege” and the inevitability that mass immigration from the Third World will make the ethnic Russians a minority within three decades or so.

    While there is an ongoing campaign- mostly of US neocon Jewish provenance- for regime change in Russia, it does not have the momentum or the critical mass to succeed, unlike in the current US, where the putsch against Trump (and by extension the legitimate and legal results of the 2016 election) is being led by Jews. The Jews are, fortunately, overplaying their hand here and drawing attention to their undue influence.

    While I suppose that it is as vulnerable to the corruption by US (Jewish) “soft power” via Hollywood and entertainment industry garbage as any other, the Russian people- unlike most dumbmerican infotainment consumers- still have an authentic spiritual and cultural heritage to look to and emulate.

    Antisemitism incarnated in political and spiritual action is the healthy immunological reaction of a society or culture to the presence of a critical mass of subversive, internationally minded Jews in its midst. If the Jews within a nation are dentists, deli owners or musicians, then everything ought to be alright. But when the Jews gain an undue leverage over politics, finance, academe, law and or cultural institutions, it is time to apply the age old remedy.

  14. Dmitry says:
    @AltSerrice

    number of Jews in Russia

    Yes Jews emigrated from Russia in a mass to Israel/Germany around year 1991-1992 (And in the late 1980s to America).

    However, I believe a Jewish community (I.e with cultural/religious life and centres) in Russia only begins around the early 2000-s, with reduced numbers; emergence obviously delayed by the previous economic situation. Then a lot people (with Jewish roots) re-immigrated back from Israel in the 2000s (there was also a wave of terrorism and economic recession in Israel which causes reverse immigration, generally disappointed people).

    no doubt their share of Russia’s wealth has diminished drastically as the economy grew

    It depends if you mean the few dozen superrich people, or just ordinary bourgeoisie.

    Superrich people wealth composition by nationality will have been mostly stable, as this is a small group, their assets were mostly acquired in the 1990s (when they were undervalued assets). This class is entrenched since the 1990s, and somewhat multinational (e.g it has over representation of Jewish roots people).

    Their assets were undervalued in the 1990s, but then they become billionaires in the early 2000s, as their assets increase value.

    On the other hand, ordinary rich people and businessmen became far more numerous in total (the economy has massive GDP growth in the early 2000s)

    Russia is improving positively year on year and maintains an independent foreign policy is proof enough that Jewish influence

    Antisemites in Russia write the opposite – “Russia is getting worse year on year because of Jewish influence, or as proof of it”. In general, it seems like a kind of Möbius strip.


    In general, I would just say Jews are a bit overrepresented, and protected in Russia, but the total number is very small and aging. Jews are small in number and will almost not exist at all in a few generations.

    • Replies: @utu
  15. utu says:
    @Dmitry

    Core population 172k
    Connected population 320k
    Enlarged population 440k
    Eligible population 600k.

  16. If you support BDS you are a de facto anti-semite according to the ADL.

    But the momentum for BDS is coming from the left, not the right.

    So while the ADL and SPLC are busying themselves day and night reading obscure Atomwaffen web pages and reminding us of what James Mason wrote 35 years ago, their boat is taking on water. At this point they really don’t have an effective counter strategy for the BDS left, aside from cheap vilification. They can’t pull the “white nationalist” card since the left uses those exact same words to describe the Jewish state. The left is going to be their primary enemy going forward.

    • Replies: @216
  17. iffen says:
    @Dmitry

    Israel is just a separate topic.

    No it is not, at least in the US and Europe.

    I will defer on Russia.

    But if you wish to discuss modern anti-Semitism and the JQ in the US and Europe, then Israel is integral to the discussion.

    • Replies: @Frank Frivilous
  18. 216 says: • Website
    @Bragadocious

    Theres a bipartisan alignment.

    The Western left has largely accepted the utility of hate speech laws, America is the outlier here. Even right-liberal parties that campaigned against hate speech laws didn’t repeal them when in power (see Abbott, Tony)

    The barrier to hate speech law in the US is boomerlibs, who dominate Dem primaries and more importantly, the judiciary.

    On the other side of the coin, the US right is manically pro-Israel, especially among boomercons, with only marginal disinterest from Gen Y/Z.

    And it has been the GOP which has introduced law after law to punish BDS, some of which were struck down by boomerlib judges.

    But at some point there will be a convergence, when an anti-BDS law is upheld by a judge, and the precedent is later used to uphold a hate speech law.

    • Replies: @SFG
  19. Mr. XYZ says:

    Sometimes, things really are as simple as they seem. This succinctly explains why the Alt Right in the US is obsessed with Jews, whereas Russian nationalists generally are not.

    There might be another reason for this. AFAIK, the alt-right also dislikes Jews because they have the impression that Jews are pushing leftism and mass non-white immigration onto the US and the West. If Russian Jews aren’t doing this, then this is a reason for Russian nationalists not to dislike Jews–at least not to the same extent as the alt-right does.

  20. Denis says:

    (indeed, he is on record supporting Article 282, which has been used to lock up Russian nationalists for hate speech)

    Didn’t he encourage his readers to support a Russian professor who was being tried for supposed holocaust denial?

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  21. Not Raul says:
    @iffen

    “The freedom of speech/BDS is basic and will ultimately be resolved in favor of free speech if the cases make it to the Supreme Court before it is taken over and packed by the left totalitarians.”

    Can you name any prominent Republican politicians, besides Rand & Ron Paul, who have been speaking out against anti-BDS bills?

    On the contrary, Republicans have been using anti-BDS to tar Democrats as anti-semites.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @John Gruskos
  22. @Denis

    He supports freedom of speech for Holocaust deniers, but not for people who say the average IQ of Dagestanis is 90. Priorities.

    http://www.unz.com/ishamir/trump-and-corbyn/#comment-2483843

  23. @iffen

    Agree with this and will add that modern Israel prospers in a dependency relationship with Europe and the U.S. which is at the heart of their anti-semitism. You could also make the argument that Russians are largely ambivalent to the JQ where it relates to Israel for the opposite reasons having seen Jews purged from the system first by Stalin and his successors and then more recently by Putin. Which is interesting considering how Russia suffered under Bolshevism. There is also the curious relationship between Russia and Israel due to the enormous numbers of Russian immigrants to Israel.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Dmitry
  24. Denis says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Ah, I see. I can’t read Russian, unfortunately, but given that he didn’t respond to your comment in that thread, I’ll take your word for it

  25. Tusk says:

    How pozzed is Russian media? Stuff like commercials not just written media.

  26. iffen says:
    @Not Raul

    The question is free speech. The substance of BDS is superfluous.

    If the BDS cases are decided before the minions of the Anti-Christ take control of the Supreme Court, and it should be, the case will be decided upon free speech grounds. Israel, anti-Semitism and the JQ will not enter into the discussion.

    For an American politician, there is very little or no upside to supporting BDS, and there is a very huge downside.

    Read Bragadocious at #16, he’s got the future pegged.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
  27. iffen says:
    @Frank Frivilous

    Which is interesting considering how Russia suffered under Bolshevism.

    Some Russian Nationalists haven’t forgotten.

  28. Dmitry says:
    @melanf

    oligarchs of the 90s claiming to be religious Christians? As far as I’ve seen, these people are just gangsters, without any camouflage.

    Sure, although even they can be nice sometimes.
    https://www.e1.ru/news/spool/news_id-66292042.html

    ordinary exSoviet Jews (not gangsters), 90% are atheist / agnostic, but among a small portion of Soviet religious Jews, Christianity is probably more common than Judaism.

    I’m not referring about general trends of Jews, but about a particular type like Boris Berezovsky.

    For example, was some kind of fan of Orthodoxy
    https://pravoslavnij.livejournal.com/48157.html

    Similarly Boris Nemtsov
    https://strelchik.livejournal.com/239265.html

  29. Dmitry says:
    @Matra

    In mainstream or government Russian media, Jewish commentators who are promoted, are very anti-American and pro-Russian, just as in America, they promote propaganda like Ioffe for Trump-Russia conspiracies.

    So in Russian media, Satanovsky are talking about how America will collapse. In America, Ioffe talks about how Russia will collapse.

    In this case, it is propaganda, not journalism. Or perhaps some kind of prostitution.

  30. Dmitry says:
    @Frank Frivilous

    purged from the system first by Stalin and his successors and then more recently by Putin

    Putin doesn’t purge Jews, more the opposite – he or his allies had tried to build a Jewish community in Russia (even though the demographics doesn’t exist for this, and the Jewish numbers will continue to decline).

    relationship between Russia and Israel due to the enormous numbers of Russian immigrants

    Relationship between Russia and Israel, is not curious or special.

    Actually, other post-Soviet countries – like Azerbaijan, Georgia, Belarus, Kazakhstan – are more friendly to Israel, compared to Russia.

    Relationship between Azerbaijan and Israel, is more curious or special.

    Russia’s position to Israel is more like any Western European country (although the media is less anti-Israel in Russia, probably because there isn’t postcolonial guilt yet dominating in the media complex – but a Russian government position to Israel is the same like any Western European country, i.e. typical attitude for Europe).

  31. Yevardian says:
    @Korenchkin

    Probably. Most ambitious people emigrate from Armenia if they don’t come from well-established military/political families. I even knew a few people who emigrated to Lebanon just so they could get a Visa for a 3rd Western country more easily. The Armenian diaspora is anything from 2-4x the population of the country itself depending on how you count it.

  32. SFG says:
    @216

    Or the left gets enough people in to pass a hate speech law and the right uses it to pass anti-BDS and possibly anti-Christian blasphemy statutes (probably in red states). I think it really depends on who gains power after a critical number of people who no longer believe in free speech get in.

    It’d be fun to see the wokies hoist with their own petard, but I’d rather preserve freedom of speech as long as possible. It’s one of the few things that set the postmedieval West apart–there haven’t been that many societies in human history, really, where you could mock the king and go on breathing.

  33. SFG says:
    @utu

    I’d be curious to see that result now.

    Also, remember ‘too much’ implies you think the situation is *bad*. If Israel is seen as a US ally (which nobody here does, but lots of people outside the alt-right do, both conservatives who think that’s a good thing and progressives who see it is another evil imperialist power), people might be less concerned about its influence.

    Also, ‘talk too much about the Holocaust’? I mean, I could see that, and it doesn’t even imply that much hostility, really. “Jim talks too much about his mom getting run over. I mean, I get it, it’s his mom, but I’m sick of hearing it!”

  34. PPB says:

    “Consequently, there’s no reason for Russian nationalists to try to make political hay out of the Jewish Question, when there exist multiple other objectively much more pressing and important issues”.

    Hear, Hear. A word for us all.

  35. I’m up to a “yes” on 8 of the 9 questions on the ADL’s propaganda test, which is nonsense since I’m just fine with most of the individual Jews I’ve met.

  36. Vendetta says:
    @iffen

    Is there any point to your babbling besides aimless pedantry?

    • Replies: @iffen
  37. Jews acting pathological is the real problem. We need to talk about Classic Patho-Semitism.

    Patho-Semites are on the march to mess up the world.

  38. neutral says:

    This succinctly explains why the Alt Right in the US is obsessed with Jews, whereas Russian nationalists generally are not.This succinctly explains why the Alt Right in the US is obsessed with Jews, whereas Russian nationalists generally are not.

    Russian nationalists should absolutely be concerned about the jews as the number one problem. The last few years regarding US-Russia relations should make it clear as daylight that the international jew, that runs USA and UK, are hell bent in destroying Russia.

  39. neutral says:
    @iffen

    It was a political bone thrown to his base.

    The base is overwhelmingly made up of non jews, this had nothing to do with the base and everything to do with serving the jewish masters.

    • Replies: @SFG
  40. @melanf

    I’ve noticed that Russian Jews tend to have obviously non-Slavic sounding names, especially Germanic sounding names. If I hear of a Russian with a Germanic sounding surname I tend to assume they are Jewish.

  41. SFG says:
    @neutral

    The evangelicals love this stuff.

    Yes, I think it’s silly too.

  42. LondonBob says:
    @Patriot right

    Russia is a lot more anti-Jewish than the West, broadly agree with the article.

    • Replies: @Patriot right
    , @Anon 2
  43. iffen says:

    Slightly OT, but not really.

    It seems that the JQ is biting the Labour Party in the UK in the ass.

    • Replies: @Patriot right
  44. @LondonBob

    I would say Britain is the least anti-Jewish Western country of all. Jewish banking and finance is so ingrained in British society that it’s seen as an authentically British industry, almost no one in Britain thinks of the financial industry as Jewish. The British elites and Jewish elites are so interlinked it’s difficult to say exactly what is British and what is Jewish very often.

    Also, in Britain the nationalist movements that exist (which isn’t many) are almost entirely pro-Jewish, for example Tommy Robinson, Nigel Farage, etc. Both actively pro-Zionist. American anti-Jewish alt-right nationalism just doesn’t exist in Britain really.

    • Replies: @neutral
  45. @iffen

    The “anti-Semitism” scandal in the Labour Party is almost entirely to do with Muslim members of the party. The media obviously never actually say that, but in the vast majority of cases it involves Muslim members.

    The “Jewish Question” simply does not exist in Britain as far as the native British are concerned, this is nothing to do with white Labour Party members being “Jew-aware” because they simply are not. This is entirely to do with “Muslims vs Jews” stuff.

    • Replies: @iffen
  46. I find more interesting about Jews this: how did they retain surprisingly high levels of endogamy & identity-individuality from the 30’s to the 90’s, without their own cultural institutions (forget about Yiddish theater), and being concentrated in big cities- so no naturally ethnic environment?

    Yet, most of them did not vanish in the broader society.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Dmitry
  47. neutral says:
    @Patriot right

    Britain was the first nation to fall to the jews in Western Europe, going back to the beginning of the Napoleonic war.

  48. iffen says:
    @Patriot right

    This is entirely to do with “Muslims vs Jews” stuff.

    Does this mean that some of our very own American Jew-haters are correct when they say we need to import more Muslims to help fight the Jews?

    • Replies: @Not Raul
  49. Not Raul says:
    @iffen

    I agree with you that if a BDS case is decided before the Supreme Court, free speech will probably win.

    On the other hand, the Supreme Court takes only a very small percentage of cases, and their rulings are often quite narrow. Usually that’s a good thing; but in this case, it makes it more likely that BDS will continue to be used by politicians for political advantage.

  50. Not Raul says:
    @iffen

    It’s a different situation in the USA.

    Jew haters in the far-right tend to hate Muslims at least as much.

    • Replies: @neutral
  51. neutral says:
    @Not Raul

    Jew haters in the far-right tend to hate Muslims at least as much.

    I must add that Muslims attacking Israel, such as Hezbollah or Hamas, have the full support of white nationalists, they must just not live in white lands.

  52. @utu

    1 Jews are more loyal to Israel than to America – yes, obviously.
    2 Jews have too much power in the business world – yes, obviously.
    3 Jews have too much power in international financial markets – yes, obviously.
    4 Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust – NO.

    Raoul Hilberg could say there was no evidence of an order from Hitler, but if a European says it, he goes to prison. So, no, Jews do not talk about what happened to them in the Holocaust. I believe the Germans killed many Jews, but it is obvious that open discussion is banned. And I think this is stupid.

    5 Jews don’t care what happens to anyone but their own kind – Possibly true, but, pass.
    6 Jews have too much control over global affairs – Yes, obviously.
    7 Jews have too much control over the United States government – Of course!
    8 Jews think they are better than other people – Well, the Talmud says so. Yes.
    9 Jews have too much control over the global media – Obviously.
    10 Jews are responsible for most of the world’s wars – Define “most.” I’ll say no.
    11 People hate Jews because of the way Jews behave – Yes.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  53. @Anatoly Karlin

    Neither of those things – discussing Holocaust revisionism or low IQ Dagestanis – should be suppressed.

    You use the term “denial.” But revisionism is what is criminalized and punished. Revisionism in general is blackballed in America; great historians of stature, like Charles Beard, were pushed aside for questioning the foreign policy of Franklin Roosevelt. Say whatever you want; I know Russians have a different perspective because of your different experience in the war. Here in the West, World War Two is the founding myth of our bullshit society. That’s why we’re not allowed to question any of this.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
  54. @Anatoly Karlin

    Thanks. Interesting, and I’ll leave the discussion to that thread, but I do think this sentence of yours is beyond belief:

    Jews played a huge role in the US civil rights movement, and ultimately I don’t think it was wholly or even primarily driven by racial hostility to the majority European population.

    Even E. Michael Jones disagrees with that, and he goes to more lengths than you or I do to say he isn’t a white nationalist. And regardless of the Jewish role, the US civil rights movement was, despite some (IMO) valid beginnings, rather transparently a fraud from virtually all angles. It’s lucky MLK died early, because he was going to become another hustler like Jesse Jackson.

    Anyway, enough for now.

  55. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Where did I say Holocaust revisionism and/or denial has to be criminalized? I didn’t. I’m not the one with double standards in that particular discussion.

  56. @Bardon Kaldian

    One of my colleagues, a secular Jew with a Russian wife, says that traditional Jews specially invented incredibly stupid rules and rituals (like marriage and coming of age ceremonies, Sabbath, etc.) to reduce the chance that any non-Jew would mix with them. Sounds like a plausible explanation.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  57. Anon 2 says:

    What Russia (proper) and the United States have in common is that both have
    little historical experience with Jews, as compared to Poland, western Ukraine,
    Belarus, Lithuania, and Hungary where the Jews lived in large numbers for
    centuries.

    Look at the Jewish percentages in the 1930s:

    Poland 10%
    Hungary 5%
    Austria 2.5%
    Czechoslovakia 2.4% (mostly in Slovakia)
    Germany 0.8%
    Soviet Union under 1% (mostly in the former territories of the Polish-Lithuanian
    Commonwealth listed above, as Jews were technically banned from Russia proper
    until 1917)
    Western Europe 0.1-0.2% (i.e., after the Jews were expelled in the Middle Ages,
    they stayed expelled).

    Nowadays, as someone mentioned, Jews represent only 0.1% of the Russian
    population. Thus the Jewish percentage in Poland in recent centuries was
    a THOUSAND times higher than in Russia. No wonder there was friction.

    Until 1890, Warsaw had the world’s largest Jewish population – about 210,000.
    Then the Jews began to massively emigrate to the U.S., but mostly from the
    Pale of Settlement (not Russia). They didn’t emigrate in large numbers
    from Poland though, so much so that Warsaw continued to have Europe’s largest
    Jewish population – about 375,000 in 1930s with over 300 synagogues.
    Poland’s Jewish population was heavily Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox.
    Perhaps one reason why the Polish Jews were extremely religious is
    that they lived in a very religious country, and simply began to imitate
    the Polonians in their religious fervor.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    , @Anon 2
  58. Anon 2 says:

    Judaism and Christianity are polar opposites (e.g., eye for an eye vs
    turning the other cheek), esp. in attitudes toward money and sex.
    No wonder that there are conflicts whenever large numbers of Jews
    live among Christians, Jewish christophobia being one factor.

    For example, in Poland with its huge Jewish population the conflicts occurred
    over a number of issues, just to mention several examples.

    1. Refusal to assimilate: Jews insisted on speaking in code (i.e., Yiddish), thus
    concealing information from Polonians. Even the Nobel Prize winning Yiddish
    writer Bashevis Singer could barely speak Polish;

    2. Far leftist sympathies and activity among many Jews;

    3. Jewish activists vehemently argued in Versailles against Poland regaining
    independence after World War I;

    4. Jewish delegates to the Sejm (Parliament) typically formed a single
    voting bloc in the 1930s with the German minority, as if unaware that Germany
    has been Poland’s traditional enemy. Even worse, during WW I a Jewish
    delegation approached Germany and suggested that the Jews rule Poland
    jointly with the Germans. Germans, of course, laughed at the Jewish naiveté;

    5. For centuries Polish Jews were heavily employed as inn- and tavern-keepers,
    in charge of alcohol sales to the peasants. In the 19th century the Jews
    began to go heavily into gambling, bordellos, and pornography – all of which
    weaken the Gentile population and undermine its moral fiber. The Jews in the
    U.S. have simply continued to do what they were doing for centuries in Poland,
    Ukraine, etc.

    Hilariously, now that the white nationalists in the U.S. are beginning to
    realize that pornography, etc deplete the energy, particularly of young men,
    the No-Fap movement has been described by some people as antisemitic!

    Getting back to Poland, Jews left many bad memories more recently in Poland,
    since they were heavily overrepresented (and often brought from Russia) in the
    postwar Communist regime, incl. especially the security and torture
    apparatus.

    • Agree: Tusk
    • Replies: @iffen
  59. @Anon 2

    Moreover, the Jews came to the US in particular during the industrial, capitalist era, when wealth no longer had a zero sum element to it like in Malthusian times.

    It is indeed probably no coincidence that the closer one gets to Jews the higher the incidence of counter-Semitic stereotypes. OK, one can invoke the Palestinians, or Islam, for Arabs, but look at Armenians, or Greeks.

  60. Anon 2 says:

    Since ADL is so obsessed with measuring what they call ‘antisemitism,’
    perhaps someone should reciprocate and devise a method of measuring
    the levels of antigentilism and christophobia among Jews. Why do they
    vary among the Jews of different levels of religiosity? Is Jewish bigotry
    specifically directed at specific countries, and why? Is it expressed in
    newspapers, movies, television, advertising, books, and how specifically?
    Are certain books banned because of the Jewish influence? We all know
    the answer to the last question. Jews, being smart chimps like the rest
    of us, are tribal, status seeking, territorial, etc, and hence are as
    prejudiced as everybody else.

    The only study I’m aware of is one that found that the American Jews are the
    most ethnocentric (tribal) group in the U.S. They represent about 2% of the
    population.

    • Replies: @Anon 2
  61. iffen says:
    @Anon 2

    Hilariously, now that the white nationalists in the U.S. are beginning to
    realize that pornography, etc deplete the energy, particularly of young men,
    the No-Fap movement has been described by some people as antisemitic!

    Base Commander Jack D. Ripper in Dr. Strangelove

    I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

  62. @Not Raul

    On the contrary, Republicans have been using anti-BDS to tar Democrats as anti-semites.

    They are fools to do so.

    The anti-BDS legislation will provide a precedent for hate speech laws, and the hate speech laws will hit conservative Christians and America First nationalists hard.

  63. Anon 2 says:
    @Anon 2

    Re: Jewish christophobia

    There is no question that Israel is one of the most christophobic
    countries in the world:

    1. Members of the Christian clergy in Israel get regularly spat upon
    by the Orthodox Jews;

    2. Israel is one of the few countries that does not celebrate Christmas.
    Even Japan celebrates Christmas;

    3. The Israeli government has tried to make life as unpleasant as possible
    for the remaining Christians, incl. Palestinians and others. Very few
    remain compared to the 1930s;

    4. Even Islam recognizes Jesus of Nazareth as a prophet. Not Judaism

    • Replies: @Dmitry
  64. Anon 2 says:
    @LondonBob

    Re: Jews in Western Europe

    Once the countries of Western Europe expelled the Jews in the Middle Ages,
    there have been virtually no Jews left in the West. By 1590 about 90% of the
    world’s Ashkenazi Jews ended up in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth,
    a vast decentralized multiconfessional republic. Even in 1900 there were
    very few Jews in France or England. And today only France has significant
    numbers of Jews (but still under 1%). The rest of Western Europe has
    virtually no Jews left, typically 0.1-0.2%.

    Western Europe solved its Jewish problem by expelling them to the East.

  65. Anon 2 says:
    @Anon 2

    Correction: a hundred times higher

  66. @AnonFromTN

    Yes, but that’s traditionalists. So, how come Yakov Sinai’s – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakov_Sinai – parents got together? There must be more to it….

  67. Dmitry says:
    @Anon 2

    I’m sure religious Jews like Haredim, will (or should) hate Christian religion (and Haredi will spit on Christians if they enter Mea Shearim – Mea Shearim Haredim will also spit on you if you try to take their photos).

    But Israel depends economically on Christianity, and Christian tourism. Most Israeli guides are working for Christian tourists and the whole orientation of Israel’s tourist industry is promoting Christian symbols and places.

    Churches are more visible in Israel, than synagogues, and they have the largest Christmas/New Year trees in the region.

    (Note Israel’s national economy depends on Christian pilgrims/tourists).

    There are churches on the skyline, but not synagogues (churches are what Israel depends on economically, not synagogues – almost all tourist flow to Israel is Christian; although Israel recently has tried to diversify its tourism to LGBT tourists and other demographics).

  68. Dmitry says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    In Russia/Belarus/Ukraine, Jews had lost most of their cultural identity in the 20th century. Historical Jewish religion was banned, and they became culturally homogenized with the rest of the nationalities.

    For example, Jewish and Muslim nationalities, were not circumcised (except for medical reasons), in all the time of the Soviet Union, as this was illegal – even though circumcision had been a historical (primitive and obscurantist except for medical reasons) custom in these nationalities for centuries before the 20th century.

    Recent resuscitation of a Jewish community in Russia/Belarus/Ukraine, is because Putin and his friends/allies, specifically wants to resuscitate a Jewish community. As a result, they were funding schools and clubs, to re-import Jewish culture for the remaining smaller numbers of Jews.

    But this is something which they have achieved with small numbers of young people only, and a large proportion of this youth will probably emigrate to Israel (at least, when they are old enough to avoid the Israeli army).

    So if you look at a typical Jewish school in Russia (like in video below) it seems they successfully create knowledgeable Jews in Russia, after many years of suppression of Jewish identity – but a large proportion of such kids will emigrate to Israel as a result of their Jewish acculturation. (So, we can be sure their demographics will collapse, despite these “top down” resuscitation the Russian Jewish community.)

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